Author Topic: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)  (Read 52031 times)

Chris

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7215
  • The Webmaster
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2010, 10:47:17 PM »
I wish they'd waterboard that punk until he gave up everything he knows.

lostlinganer

  • Member
  • Posts: 3863
  • Silence, in the face of injustice is complicity wi
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2010, 10:50:52 PM »
indeed....how much drag does he have.  You would think by now, the prison population would be sick of his antics and have someone "do him in".....no animal should get this much control.  ...talk about a monkey running to zoo~ :( >:( >:(

capeheart

  • Member
  • Posts: 3532
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2010, 08:28:35 PM »
I daresay that Clifford Olson will never see the light of day again. I would assume that the parents of all the children murdered will be there if any such time comes that he does come up for parole. I think that his sentence was such that he will be behind bars until he croaks. I don't understand someone giving knowledge of the crime and this going on for this many years, there just seems to be too much of this crap going on in this country. ??? ??? ??? ???

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2010, 05:05:39 PM »
I have the following misgivings on this Olson-Silverman connection and wish I had paid more attention before my post of 7 January 2010.

The only source of the initial quote posted on 2 January 2010 that I can find comes from the 'francesfarmerrevenge' site.  This site is dedicated to glorifying serial killers.  It does not come up in a search of Debbie Silverman.

There is a long story before this quote which is an exact copy of one posted on 'serialkillercentral' which seems dedicated to factual info on serial killers.

The difference between the 2 stories?  Only FFR quotes a connection to Debbie Silverman, SKC does not.

The same story, word for word until the Debbie Silverman claim.

The titles are slightly different as well - Profile of a Serial Killer:The Clifford Olson story vs Profile of a Serial Killer, The Clifford Robert Olson Story.

I regret lending any credence to Olson's claim and would like to see all posts from 2 January 2010 to this one deleted until proper verification on who wrote what can be made.

Note that Olson was in jail in Alberta when the student from Quebec went missing that he claims to have involvement in.

capeheart

  • Member
  • Posts: 3532
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2010, 05:14:58 PM »
Olson is such a creepy individual that he actually I think can visualize himself still killing people even while behind bars. He is a sicko and has the same kind of aura as Charles Manson. Even when they are behind bars they still want to be mentioned, they want their names in the news. OJ Simpson is the same way, cannot keep his face and name out of the news. They don't like it when they are put in the background and never heard from again, they like the sick notoriety that they believe they get. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2010, 06:27:52 PM »
Agreed capeheart, 100%

The question is, did Olson in fact write the quote attributed to him?  2 different endings to the story in only 2 locations has me wanting more in the way of verification.

The OPP are offering $50,000 for Debbie's killer - why didn't Olson collect on this?

Olson mentions Debbie was wearing a blue and white shirt - does anyone else have another reference to this?

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2010, 09:55:41 PM »
Further followup of the apparent claim by Olson to have been present during the burial of Debbie Silverman -

15 January 1982 Toronto Star Page A1

Along with the uproar over payment to Olson for the children/youths he pled guilty to murdering, there is a small article reporting Metro Toronto Police wanted Olson in September of 1973 for assault charges in Toronto.  Not 1978 and not for murder.

D1 - does any of your research show how Olson travelled from Saskatchewan to Nova Scotia and back to BC in 1978 (between mid June and early September) and on what dates?


Shwa

  • Member
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2010, 08:23:04 AM »
Any grave is hard to dig in frozen or very wet ground.  Some wooded areas could contain small wet depressive areas that are unsuitable for any burial effort in the early spring.  And some landscapes preclude a deep burial since the land might be a yard of topsoil followed by sand, hardscrabble or rocky soils that prevent easy excavation.  Note that most of your dates are after the last frost or, in the case of the BC discovery in Feb, where frost might not have frozen the ground.

But shallow graves seem to be a minimal burial effort when time is factored in.  Meaning that the perpetrator wants to cover the evidence to avoid discovery, but cannot make the time commitment for a burial that would actually be effective at avoiding discovery.  This makes sense:

Excavating a 6 foor deep trench - say 5'L X 3'W X 6'D is 90 cubic feet.  Then factor that each square foot of soil weighs about 75-100 lbs.  So to excavate the above trench that is 6750 to 9000 lbs (up to 4 & 1/2 tons) of soil to remove and then move it back when you are done.  That is a heck of a lot of work and cemetaries use a backhoe for this sort of thing nowadays.

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/volume_calculator +

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/earth-soil-weight-d_1349.html

D1

  • Guest
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2010, 12:27:11 AM »
Olson was out of jail for a brief period of time during which Debbie was murdered. It has been shown that Olson was incarcerated with other serial killers in the past. He was even in the employ of the police to garner info from other killers. Who was Olson incarcerated with prior to Debbies murder? Anyone who knew Debbie? Where was Olson staying? Close to Debbie? All stuff the police would know, unfortunately they aren't sharing that info.

Im_new_here2

  • Guest
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2010, 11:58:01 PM »
could be wrong  but if your from somewhere and u plan to kidnap someone and bring them back to your area or somewhere familliar u have clearly thought about this ,,so maybe then they dug the grave days even months ahead of time it was located in the woods right ..just a thought.

D1

  • Guest
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2010, 12:36:56 AM »
Or two persons just got together, one who knew the area, and the other who knew his way around murder. The shallow grave MO would fit OLson, the area and victim seems to be someone else's MO though. Two fits better than one..

D1

  • Guest
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2010, 07:25:52 PM »
A grave dug earlier on would suggest premeditation and preplanning from someone who didn't want to take any unnecessary chances. Depending on the effort required to dig this grave, the time at the scene may or may not have been that long. The area directly across the road from the grave provided a convenient lookout location if a considerable amount of time was required. Two would be involved if that was the case. Was Debbie a specific target for someone or just a convenient victim? How could that be determined?

Was Olson incarcerated with someone who had it in for Debbie? Was he out on parole and living near Debbie at the time of her murder? I'm sure Clifford Olson would not have been adverse to murder for hire either. Apparently he either did confess or at least professed knowledge of this murder. I would like to see whether the dots can be connected before completely ruling him out, he is a proven and convicted serial killer. He had been in prison, was out in Ontario and had been released just prior to this murder.

The closeness of this grave to that of Christine Jessop opens a huge can of worms.

redbeard

  • Member
  • Posts: 372
  • Author of Cold North Killers, coming March 3, 2012
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »
Let's dig through that can of worms shall we.... First of all let's just forget about everything Clifford Olson says.  The man is a consumate attention seeker.  He has confessed to numerous homicides across Canada and at one point even admitted to being The Green River Killer (even though the Washington slayings happened after he was imprisoned).  He has wasted our taxpayers money leading the RCMP out to non-existent grave sites just for daytrips.  Furthermore, Olson abducted killed and dumped his victims in a very small geographical area that he was intensely familiar with.  His M.O. doesn't fit the Silverman murder, and the countryside north of Whitby would be way off his mental map.

Moving on to the connections between Silverman and Jessop.  Geographically these crimes fit like a glove.  We have the proximity of the body dump sites, along with the Bathurst street connection Woodland brilliantly uncovered.  The sex of the victims is the same.  However, one was a full grown adult and the other a child.  We can't disqualify a connection based on this, because there have been numerous examples of killers throughout history who prey on adults and children.  The majority of killers however will have a much more specific victimology.  My main question is this: do we have any information whatsoever on how Debbie was killed?  Was she strangled, stabbed, drowned?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 03:27:27 PM by redbeard »

redbeard

  • Member
  • Posts: 372
  • Author of Cold North Killers, coming March 3, 2012
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2010, 03:24:31 PM »
Where there any signs of sexual assault or rape?  Was she bound?  Or is this another case of the police hiding all the details from the public indefinitely while failing to solve the case on their own?  Ultimately, what will connect or disassociate the Jessop and Silverman murders are too things: Modus Operandi, but more importantly, Signature.  Signature is what a killer DOES NOT have to do in order to get away with a crime, instead it is something superfluous he feels compelled to do.  In the case of Christine Jessop this would be reflected in the posing of the body with the legs splayed, and possibly attempted decapitation (the verdict is still up on what happened in the latter case). 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 03:29:33 PM by redbeard »

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Debbie Silverman (21) - Murder (Aug. 12, 1978)
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2010, 04:22:27 PM »
Have found next to nothing on the manner of Debbie's death or how she was found in the shallow grave.  Have often wished a family member would stumble across this site and want to add some facts.

The last article in the Star archives that mentions Debbie's name, along with other unsolved cases, states she was shot.  This is not mentioned in previous articles so who knows how accurate it is.