Author Topic: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2  (Read 75154 times)

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #315 on: April 23, 2019, 09:42:37 AM »
Point taken JB;  but most facebook pages seldom include a link or proof of facts.  Therefore; I think the police would not take such pages as seriously.  I could be wrong because there are many, many well-laid-out facebook pages, which I hit on all the time.  ... pages used by serious people with organized articles and blogs;   but the majority of facebook is personal pages with no logic or organization.   :-\

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #316 on: April 23, 2019, 11:32:45 AM »
Kelly Cook, Barbara Stoppel and Victoria Crow Shoe. All of these murders involved rope.

Barbara Stoppel's (December 1981) and Victoria Crow Shoe's (August 2015) murders involved a very specific kind of rope: kernmantle. We know that Kelly Cook was bound with rope, but we don't know if it was kernmantle rope.

(Barbara Stoppel: "Investigation determined that the braided green and yellow nylon twine used in the murder was unique and may have been used as shot line for pulling wires through conduits in underground hydro or telephone installations. It was originally believed that the twine came from a producer in Washington State and as such police centered their investigation on the west coast. However, a recent analysis of the twine confirmed that it contained a chemical tracer used by a former Portage la Prairie rope manufacturer named Berkley Twine." From: http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=114.0

Victoria Crow Shoe: '"The rope is of kernmantle construction and is white with two black tracers in the sheath weave," reads an RCMP release.' From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-pincher-creek-rcmp-victoria-crow-shoe-1.4861562; photo included.)

We don't know from published facts if Kelly Cook was bound in a specific way, or if that way was similar to Victoria Crow Shoe. We do know that Kelly Cook (Chin Reservoir) and Victoria Crow Shoe (Oldman River Reservoir) were both dumped in southern Alberta reservoirs where fishing occurs.

Was the rope used in Kelly Cook's and Victoria Crow Shoe's murders a kind of shot line, used for pulling electrical wires? That is the specific type of rope used in Barbara Stoppel's murder, tracked by a chemical tracer to a Manitoba company. Wind turbines were being dismantled in the Pincher Creek area at the time of Victoria Crow Shoe's murder. What was the logo on Kelly Cook's killer's windbreaker? Was power transmission work being done in the Strathmore/Standard area in April 1981?

Kelly Cook's killer could still be alive, especially if he was on the young side of his estimated age.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 12:16:13 PM by wellwell »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #317 on: April 23, 2019, 12:29:19 PM »
FYI, construction workers who travel out of town for projects often stay in campgrounds.

Standard, Alberta has a municipal campground and multiple other campgrounds nearby. The weather in April 1981 was considerably warmer than in other years, as previously discussed in this thread. Older cars were much heavier than current models, and could tow a trailer. Trailers tended to be smaller.

https://www.allstays.com/Campgrounds-details/10548.htm

The Oldman Reservoir has a campground on site.

https://www.albertaparks.ca/parks/south/oldman-dam-pra/information-facilities/

The only infrastructure work mentioned in Strathmore town history for 1981 was the removal of the last CPR rail line.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 12:41:34 PM by wellwell »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #318 on: April 23, 2019, 05:15:23 PM »
The rope used in the murder of Victoria Crow Shoe is a kind used for off-label purposes by a very specific kind of person with very specific interests. It is no mistake that this detailed information was released. Somebody knows.

Why, oh why, have we never heard details of the specific kind of rope used in Kelly Cook's murder? Kernmantle rope was first manufactured in 1953.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #319 on: April 23, 2019, 07:00:39 PM »
Quote
Why, oh why, have we never heard details of the specific kind of rope used in Kelly Cook's murder? Kernmantle rope was first manufactured in 1953.

Good research wellwell;  and good question, also.

There's a lot of questions unanswered in Kelly's case... and tho the case remains open because it is homicide,
 it seems holding back information at this point has gotten nowhere.  I could be wrong about that, because keeping back a detail or important fact that only the killer would know, is logically the wise the right thing to do. However, describing the rope, the cinder blocks etc. might just turn on a light in somebody's head. ... as something they always noticed at a particular place or purpose of use. 

I still have haunting thoughts about the claim that Kelly wasn't raped.  .. meaning did a well meaning doctor in a town full of heart-broken children, teens, and parents, think it might be the best way to handle it , sparing the pain of at least one gruesome act on this innocent girl?  .. or perhaps "no rape" was just an educated guess that was due to extreme decomposition and/or less than adequate forensic tools at the time?  :-\  ... or is it possible that police hoped at the time, or were determined at the time, that they might find where Kelly was held and murdered, ... perhaps confiscating hair or fiber that could be traced to Kelly by means of blood match technique at the time - and that could have also had evidence of her killer with it.  That is a fact I've always tried to figure out.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #320 on: April 24, 2019, 08:46:19 AM »
If kernmantle rope was used in Kelly's murder, knowing that information could provide vital clues.

Tracers are placed in kernmantle rope used for industrial purposes. Such ropes are required by law to replaced after a certain period of time. These ropes can be tracked back to the manufacturer, and to the date they were made. This information is printed inside the outer layer.

Thinking back to the rope used in Barbara Stoppel's murder, what if that rope matched the rope used in Kelly Cook's murder? Such a specific rope would provide valuable insight, possibly linking Kelly's murder to Barbara's.

Similarly, a kind of rope like shot line might indicate the occupation of the murderer, especially if found at the scene of multiple murderers. I think this is why the police have released this detail in Victoria Crow Shoe's case. They know what kind of work was being done in the area, and they know that many workers were there temporarily. A coworker might recognize a certain person who was staying in a campground nearby. A friend might know who went fishing that day. Victoria was found unclothed, so this increases the possibility of the rope being part of a rape kit.

Rapists carry rape kits. These include restraints. These kits are prepared in advance. The rope found at crimes with a sexual component is not likely random bits of twine found on scene, IMO.

These are some of the reasons the rope is so important, especially when few other pieces of evidence exist. Baling twine is quite different from kernmantle rope.

In answer to your question, I believe the forensic determination of "no rape" was based on the fact that Kelly Cook was fully clothed when her remains were found. This kind of assumption was made in those days. The lengthy period of submersion would have made that determination factually impossible. It is an assumption, and nothing more. The forensics were carried out in Calgary, I believe.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 09:11:01 AM by wellwell »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #321 on: April 24, 2019, 11:23:40 AM »
makes sense wellwell!

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #322 on: April 24, 2019, 02:07:16 PM »
I've mentioned this before. The type of knotwork used can also reveal a lot. Expired kernmantle rope is often cut up into smaller pieces and used for practice knotting by those in certain occupations that require this skill. There are common knots, and other more specialized knots that are favored by people in boating, rock climbing or animal handling, for example. Combine that with the type of rope, and a better picture of the murderer may emerge. Ordinary hardware store rope and poorly-tied knots will paint a different picture.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #323 on: April 24, 2019, 03:28:18 PM »
An unusual electrician's knot is what tied Jerome Brudos to some murders of young women in Oregon in the 1960s. He used the knot to tie victims to car parts when he disposed of their bodies in water. He was jailed in the late 1960s.

Sometimes the simple things are overlooked.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 03:36:35 PM by wellwell »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #324 on: April 25, 2019, 06:17:51 PM »
Its all in the detail, unfortunately we are not privy to much of that.. Just to be a little clearer, Early on prior the mass deletion of pictures and attachments, there were several articles all saying pretty much the same thing in regard Kelly and the blocks attached to her body. That was she was tied to them, one article even saying tied to them by the hands and feet.. None suggested or even hinted at the means T. Arnold claimed..

As far the rape and rape confirmation, that too was discussed early on with conclusion being the hymen was still intact. Not just the clothing on. I understand the question goes to motive Lost and yes, it gets harder to find motive without a sexual component. Same goes for either poi being discussed at present or even all potentials. Arnold did have another motive or so he claimed..

Good stuff on the rope/ twine differences w/w. Arnold claimed to have found the rope and blocks under the bridge near where Kelly was found. It was always referred to as rope, never twine as far as I recall.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #325 on: April 25, 2019, 08:15:16 PM »
You guys;
I've always wondered if, once it was considered possible that the poi may have first set his goal for a figure skater - the blonde in the newspaper prior -did the investigators go back and question all possible people involved in any way (no matter how little the involvement) about the poi asking the first girl to babysit ... I mean, did he target a blonde girl? etc.   I wonder if this guy asked anybody at all, what Kelly looked like etc.   ... just a thought!  There is always the possibility that what this guy had perceived or fantasized what his blind date would be like, was not what he got... she wasn't his type.  (propensity for blondes?) He couldn't just return her home.... no cell phones back then, so he couldn't fake a phone call and make up an excuse that the baby sitting had to be called off for whatever reason, and he must take her back home.... it was too late!  he had to kill her anyway at such a point.  :(
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:45:58 PM by lostlinganer »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #326 on: April 26, 2019, 09:40:24 AM »
I do hope that photos were taken of the rope used to bind Kelly Cook, and shared with investigators in other unsolved murder cases. With very little physical evidence from this case, what does exist becomes more important. Rope is not simply rope. Knots are not simply knots. It is good that investigators in the Victoria Crow Shoe case released the image of the rope and knots without letting too much time go by. Someone may recognize that rope and those knots. The knots appear to have some level of skill. Some knots are favored by individuals, and some individuals have unique methods of tying them. It can be a sort of signature if this technique and type of rope shows up again.

(Yes, I have spent too much time watching timber hitch knot-tying videos, because what else would one use in a campground near the mountains, as in Victoria's case?)

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #327 on: April 30, 2019, 07:51:11 AM »
Part Two of the podcast. I haven't listened to it yet.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5178188/kelly-cook-the-backup-babysitter-part-2/

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #328 on: April 30, 2019, 06:23:36 PM »
Interesting little tid-bit...

Quote
WATCH: The RCMP is taking a fresh look at a Calgary-area cold case. On the 38th anniversary of Kelly Cook’s abduction and murder, police are using advancements in technology to try and move the case forward. Nancy Hixt reports.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #329 on: April 30, 2019, 07:40:28 PM »
Interesting little tid-bit...

Quote
WATCH: The RCMP is taking a fresh look at a Calgary-area cold case. On the 38th anniversary of Kelly Cook’s abduction and murder, police are using advancements in technology to try and move the case forward. Nancy Hixt reports.

Does this mean they have DNA evidence from the murder? That's what "advancements in technology" usually means. It can also be a roundabout way of saying the case can't be solved now.