Author Topic: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2  (Read 74745 times)

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #225 on: June 04, 2018, 10:38:23 AM »

I think it is very helpful to get a fresh set of eyes. My summary of two threads' worth of information is scant and inadequate, but there you go.

I remember this because it happened soon after a happy event in my family, and my family was connected to a family in the area. I remember phone calls to my parents. With so many other things going on in the news in those days, like young women disappearing along the Trans-Canada Highway, Clifford Olson, and later the murders at Wells Grey Provincial Park in B.C., the west seemed like a very unsafe place. It's always easier to blame an outsider than to look closer to home, so maybe that's how this guy was overlooked. He wasn't really an outsider.

I do think skating and the arena had everything to fo with this. I've thought about things like a Zamboni repair man or a refrigeration technician, but what you say makes the most sense. He was someone with a reason to visit arenas without standing out. That could be someone who played recreational hockey, or had kids who played hockey, or kids who  figure skated. There was mention of a skate meet held in Strathmore, with photos published in the local newspaper, so maybe he was there.

The RCMP said Kelly was dressed when she was found. But in what? In cases elsewhere, they have described clothing, for example, wearing a blue coat, etc. but no shoes. They said she had not been sexually assaulted. But I get the feeling that they could not have known this, due to the state of decomposition. Finding a body in clothing does not mean that a sex crime has not occurred. This was a careless statement, IMO, perhaps made to spare the family any further suffering. Kelly could have been re-dressed. Or was that aplan that went awry?

They said that the suspect was heavyset at 160 lbs. and 5'10". Really? That is well within the ideal weight guidelines for a man that height.

It was April and this man had a tan? From a recent trip to a warm place or was his swarthy look a natural skin colour all year round for him?

I think he msy have had children of his own, which made the babysitting ruse convincing. The specific contents of the conversation with the girl who provided Kelly's nsme were not revealed. These girls went to school with country kids. But I think he chose a girl from town, because it was eadier to convince her that he "knew" her neighbors, when he could look their names up in a phone book, reverse directory or in a Henderson's directory at the local library. Plus, many rural phone lines were still on the party system or partial party system, where nosey neighbors listened in. It would have been around spring breakup time, and some dirt roads may roads may have been impassable. It wouldn't do to get stuck during an abduction, so he used improved roads and paved roads.

There have been bodies found in Carseland over the years, downstream from the dam  It serms to be a dumping ground. There are lakes like McGregor Lske and Newell Lake that are for irrigation and recreational use. People are often towing boats at that time of year. Maybe moving them to the water after the winter as they prepare for boating season? I think Chin Reservoir would still have been frozen, but with  some open patches of water. Rivers and lakes don't freeze now like they used to, but 1981 was an early spring. He may have moved Kelly to that location later: if so, it was risky because the media had everyone on the lookout for Kelly.

Did he even need a boat or have a boat? Did he dump kelly from an ice fishing hut? Did he drive around with a concrete block and ropes or go to an ice fishing hut where he knew he'd find these things?

I do think the girl had to be a figure skater. This guy was acting out some fantasy that he couldn 't act out on his home turf. Maybe it was a revenge fantasy to get back at "Bill," or retaliate for a previous rejection in his life, involving a man named "Bill" and a figure skater. Kelly was just there.

More for you:

https://shows.pippa.io/unsolved-mysteries-of-the-world/the-unsolved-abduction-murder-of-kelly-cook-s01e10

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #226 on: June 04, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »
Concerned, grain is typically shipped to market before the  new growing season. Trains and crew would have been coming and going in the broader area. Trucks would have been hauling grain around. Strathmore has a cattle stockyard. And cows and calves would have been hauled around to and from auction. Fertilizer and seed orders would have been made and new farm equipment would have been arriving at dealerships. So it might have been easy to overlook a new face in town.

Maybe it is tilting at windmills to think this guy can still be found, but what if he did this again to some other girl or woman? I understand Marnie Kathol's need to move forward. She is free to do so, but I hope that this file is not abandoned by the RCMP. Murder is murder.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #227 on: June 04, 2018, 04:12:55 PM »
Who liked to fish at Chin (now Stafford) Reservoir, and kept returning there again and again, starting in April 1981?

He drove two hours and 25 minutes for a reason.

https://goo.gl/maps/FsgnH7NZXh52
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:25:40 PM by wellwell »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #228 on: June 04, 2018, 05:41:42 PM »
Quote
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 05:45:38 PM by D1 »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #229 on: June 04, 2018, 06:38:19 PM »
Police never seem to interfere with boats and fish huts hauled by trucks... they like fishing too ;). The idea of Kelly being dropped through a fishing hole is very logical.  Guys often take planks and big bricks to sit on in those huts... to keep up off the ice.  Good call on that imo ~
Her body was sufficiently "weighed down" to sink directly where she was dropped;  so it would be interesting to mark on a map exactly where her body was found..... then poster it around Standard to Chin lake area for fisherman from April, 1981 to ponder who had a hut in that spot.  ... never know whose memory it might jog .... maybe grasping at straws on this forum, but not much left when the authorities turned away from Kelly for whatever reasons.  Poor Mr. Cook must be turning over in his grave;  any hope for justice died with him I'd say. :'(

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #230 on: June 04, 2018, 08:54:52 PM »
We've lost a lot of images and links material in the last re-incarnation of this forum after it was hacked last year.  I was thinking it might be a good idea to start a new thread of Suspects we considered for Kelly's murder and why (including their picture and why we considered them) .... as opposed to "pointing fingers at just anyone".  These people had criminal history that made them stand out as possible suspects;  they did time and made the news over and over. 
D1's favorite was Terry Arnold

I had two favorites:  Bill Christensen and Obie Chandler

albeit; over the years, we also found new matches, and best match came from the family of someone seemingly untouchable by RCMP since he came from one of the most prosperous and prominent father's in the area.  He did time for molesting his own daughter and she and his first wife suspected him for years for Kelly's death.  Even though he was in the news 2 yrs. ago in medicine hat, we decided it best not discuss him as it would put those who came forward in danger.  But I have plenty information on him, as does the serious crime unit in charge of Kelly's case.  Anyone who has attended this thread and worked vigorously for Kelly over the years, can message me privately with an email address to get a look at him and the info. I've compiled.  (I know who you loyal crew are).  He has the exact face of the original composite - which I cannot post on the forum because it was shared with me confidentially, but that doesn't mean you can't get to see it.

In the meantime, the first guy below is Terry Arnold altered to see if he is a match for the composite.
The second guy is Bill Christensen .... one of many names this guy used over the years.  the pic of him is when he reached his 50's... he still looks like the composite even at an older age.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 09:08:35 PM by lostlinganer »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #231 on: June 05, 2018, 12:31:17 AM »
There are already two threads on Kelly. I had a personal encounter with one potential suspect. I've already said all I can about that. I would like to confirm whether Chin Lake was ice free when Kelly was killed. That's all.

Concerned

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #232 on: June 05, 2018, 04:40:28 AM »
Thank you all for your patience as I try to read through the threads. I'm away at the moment, but when I get back in a few days I'll try to educate myself more. Your insight is very helpful. In my mind I'm trying to make a timeline, a map and a list of the known facts. So much information in these threads. I can tell you all have really cared. I'll try to get up to par in the next few days. Thanks for all the information. Just trying to figure out what was important, known and what was speculative and in which ways.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #233 on: June 05, 2018, 09:23:44 AM »
There are already two threads on Kelly. I had a personal encounter with one potential suspect. I've already said all I can about that. I would like to confirm whether Chin Lake was ice free when Kelly was killed. That's all.

That's tough to find. You might have better luck looking up historical weather. It did occur to me, though, that if this guy was involved with the irrigation district, he would know about the lower water levels in the reservoir. A dedicated fisherman would be keeping tabs on the thaw, too, because at a certain point, the ice could fail.

This guy was a risk-taker.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #234 on: June 05, 2018, 10:17:44 AM »
It is my opinion that Kelly's killer was no longer in Standard by the time Kelly's parents started looking for her. It is also my opinion that he took her to Chin Lakes Reservoir near Taber, passing several other (frozen) lakes because he knew he could dispose of her in the water there. He had planned this abduction and murder. He was prepared. He knew Chin Lakes. It was far enough away that it would take time fpr anyone to find Kelly. Who would think to look there? But everyone in Southern Alberta was on alert because police had asked them to keep their eyes open in the ongoing news stories. He didn't consider the low water levels, or Kelly might never have been found. He overlooked this detail, or didn't care.

What would geographical profiling reveal about this?

I understand that it is very unusual for a murderer to take a body this far from the crime scene, so it had to be a place that he knew well. I think he returned there, indicating that it was near his home, but far enough away to avoid suspicion. If he had a wife and friends, they would have known how special this fishing spot was to him.


D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #235 on: June 05, 2018, 06:17:56 PM »
If anyone comes across some actual weather data from that year, please post it. My recollection is that it was an unusually warm winter out there. But need actual verification of some kind.   

I have left all the info I can on T. Arnold for anyone wanting to look. No need for additional space on him.
Quote
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?board=84.0

In regard the Strathmore couple who moved to BC shortly after Kelly's murder, the woman (G.S.)was convinced that the sketch of Kelly's killer that was being circulated was of her boyfriend (G.H.). She seemed to know who T. Arnold was too. G.H.'s car description matches that of the one being sought. G.H. himself was about 5'10" but heavy chested and about 200 lbs. He wore sunglasses of the type seen in the sketch. Later when the perm came out of his hair, his hair style hairline was akin to that in the sketch. He was about 32 years old at the time. At one point he said that he used to talk in a rapid demanding fashion like someone we had just been listening too. I wondered about all of this. Was T. Arnold an associate of these people and is that sketch a compilation of maybe two people? Some of the descriptors, 5'10" heavy set yet only 160 lbs. do not quite make sense. What I do know is that the woman from Strathmore, G.S. had become convinced that a young person named "Arnold" was Kelly's killer. How she came to that conclusion I do not know and that's where I left it.

The man named Arnold that I later met, claimed responsibility for Kelly's murder and several others. Yes this is a strange sequence of events even to me. He is virtually verified as being the killer of the others he named. In the details left, he claimed to have walked Kelly's body out from shore..  Hence the questions about weather and ice conditions that specific year. Maybe he was just bragging and making things up but how do you know without chasing as much of it down as possible? It has been left inconclusive..
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 06:43:01 PM by D1 »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #236 on: June 05, 2018, 07:36:35 PM »
He could walk out from shore on ice... like to an ice hut maybe  :-\  ... and as old and losing data in this old head, as I am, I could have sworn I put the environmental / ice conditions for that day, on the first Kelly thread.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 07:50:49 PM by lostlinganer »

Sap1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #237 on: June 05, 2018, 10:55:41 PM »
I recall you or someone posting all that weather in the past, Lost.

eta: Okay, I started with thread # 1 and couldn't find the weather postings however they are posted 5 pages back here:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.150

Also the first 15 pages or so of thread # 1, either AaronP or CCF posted a newspaper weather report in conjunction with the find of Kelly, for April around 22nd and it was stated that there was a drought situation and the water was lower than normal and that was the only reason Kelly was found.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 12:11:26 AM by Sap1 »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #238 on: June 06, 2018, 09:34:59 AM »
that's what I mean about so much info. getting "hacked out" last year;  when you click on links or pictures, all you get is a "format not supported" link.  Someone sure cleaned out a lot in that hack back then. 

It just seems like all the information was deliberately affected by the hacking:  In December,1981 there was so much ice already on the lake/s, imagine how deep that ice was by March.... probably frozen to the bottom in all the shallow areas... which would mean a deep spot would be needed to submerge a weighted-down body. 

Quote
In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.135
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 09:46:46 AM by lostlinganer »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #239 on: June 06, 2018, 11:03:21 AM »
that's what I mean about so much info. getting "hacked out" last year;  when you click on links or pictures, all you get is a "format not supported" link.  Someone sure cleaned out a lot in that hack back then. 

It just seems like all the information was deliberately affected by the hacking:  In December,1981 there was so much ice already on the lake/s, imagine how deep that ice was by March.... probably frozen to the bottom in all the shallow areas... which would mean a deep spot would be needed to submerge a weighted-down body. 

Quote
In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.135

The page linked mentions Lutheran camps. This is just background, but I've mentioned the Lutheran church the Cooks attended, wondering if there was a connection that way. If he did have children, it is possible that they may have attended a church summer camp, religious or not. It is possible he attended community gatherings at the church, religious or not. Churches serve as gathering places for community events in small towns. Maybe he attended a wedding there.

The school in Standard is K-12, so children of all ages knew each other, from the whole catchment area, which extends well beyond Standard out into the country.

And if you look at the street names, they reference Denmark: Christian and Frederick (Kings of Denmark), Elsinore (or the Kronborg castle at Helsingor, believed to be Shakespeare's setting for Hamlet), then there's Hamlet and Yorick. In Denmark, the Lutheran church is the Church of Denmark.

It is no secret that Standard had Danish settlers and Danish families still living in the area. Christianson is a patronymic meaning Christian's son. And then there were the Cooks, non-Danish and relative newcomers from Montreal who attended the Lutheran church. I think a Danish descandant living in Standard in 1981 wouldn't have known this "Christianson", and wouldn't have believed him, so he needed an outsider he could trick.

Someone mentioned a chainsaw. but if this murderer did drill through ice, an ice auger is the usual tool. It takes upper body strength to use a power ice auger (and it's noisy), so this guy may have had all his bulk in his upper body.

Still thinking of how this guy could look bulky at a scrawny 160 lbs., did he play old-timer hockey with a team that sometimes played in Standard?

And yes, he needed darkness to carry out his plan. It's really hard to identify passing cars in the dark when you're staring into headlights. This is why I think he moved Kelly somewhere that night. There are two crime scenes that we know of, but there could be more.

Finally if he were to wear a hat, ballcaps are the thing and were then. He obviously had some vanity about ruining his 'do. A ballcap is a better disguise. But then, this guy didn't need one, as it's 37 years later without a name.

Hoping some oldtimer hockey players from those days will think back.