Author Topic: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2  (Read 73640 times)

wellwell

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It wasn't so long ago that a colonel serving in the RCAF was initially missed as a suspect in a series of B&Es, sexual assaults and murders. He was a base commander. His status in the small community where he lived didn't make him untouchable forever, so now he's serving a life sentence.

It's hard to imagine a tiny little RCMP detachment in early 1980s rural Alberta having the resources to investigate a case of the magnitude of Kelly's disappearance. I don't imagine any of the local officers were homicide detectives. Local taxes paid for local policing. I suspect they did the best they could with whatever resources they had. But I believe they didn't have the resources they needed. I also know that people in that area were interconnected by memberships in service clubs and fraternal orders and the like. Brothers wouldn't turn on brothers. Maybe it's those brothers who should be asking the question, "What if it had been my daughter or sister?" And fast, because they are getting any younger.

wellwell

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Speaking of naming names, why do some people from the Standard area who remember 1981 still call Kelly Cook's killer "Bill"?

Is it because they don't know what else to call him, or is it a slip of the tongue? Is "Bill" his real name?

wellwell

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I realize this was a long time ago but what was the deadline for getting fishing huts off the Chin Reservoir in 1981? And what was the deadline for getting them off the shore? Did everyone have the old-style wooden huts back then, with woodstoves, etc.?

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2018, 07:49:18 AM »
I noticed one article in Alberta fishing guide, where in 2013, the deadline for ice huts off lakes etc. was March 31.  So go back 22 yrs. and there may have been no deadline.... or else, problems with such garbage after winter sports fishing had to be addressed and acted on at some point (what year?)  It would be interesting to know who had cabins or ice huts at Chin Lake that Easter weekend (good project for someone in the area - finding out "who all" occupied the area that weekend - what they did all weekend - what they noticed all that weekend!   AND WHERE THEY WERE WHEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THEIR CAR, TRUCK, OR CABIN RADIO THAT KELLY COOK WAS MISSING... especially anyone spending the nights there and not going home for Easter weekend.  I'll bet the police never even "went there"!  ;) All through this thread, I have always referred to that weekend of April 22, 1981 as Easter;  please, someone correct me if it wasn't Easter weekend that she disappeared.
 modifying here to say:  I just went to a calendar archive for 1981;  it states Easter as April 19 that year.  Kelly went missing the 22nd according to the title line of this thread for her.  which meant she went missing on the Wednesday after Easter weekend.  Why did nobody correct that fact when I started to stray on it, way back when! ?  I'm guessing that I at some point in this or the previous thread, always connected her disappearance to Easter weekend in order to jog memories of readers on the thread.

Here is a very interesting link... especially for those of you who are "waterways savy";  it shows depths in all parts of the lake... and especially, shows every range road and cow path into Chin Lake.  Impressive, I must say.  Kind of thing that would have come in handy for any quick thinking investigator back in 1981.  ... but then again????

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/49.6350/-112.2150

« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 08:43:05 AM by lostlinganer »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2018, 08:00:10 AM »
by zooming + and - on the map, and/or just pulling it up or down, you will notice Brooks, Taber etc.
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#10/49.7015/-112.1681

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2018, 11:58:39 AM »
I noticed one article in Alberta fishing guide, where in 2013, the deadline for ice huts off lakes etc. was March 31.  So go back 22 yrs. and there may have been no deadline.... or else, problems with such garbage after winter sports fishing had to be addressed and acted on at some point (what year?)  It would be interesting to know who had cabins or ice huts at Chin Lake that Easter weekend (good project for someone in the area - finding out "who all" occupied the area that weekend - what they did all weekend - what they noticed all that weekend!   AND WHERE THEY WERE WHEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THEIR CAR, TRUCK, OR CABIN RADIO THAT KELLY COOK WAS MISSING... especially anyone spending the nights there and not going home for Easter weekend.  I'll bet the police never even "went there"!  ;) All through this thread, I have always referred to that weekend of April 22, 1981 as Easter;  please, someone correct me if it wasn't Easter weekend that she disappeared.
 modifying here to say:  I just went to a calendar archive for 1981;  it states Easter as April 19 that year.  Kelly went missing the 22nd according to the title line of this thread for her.  which meant she went missing on the Wednesday after Easter weekend.  Why did nobody correct that fact when I started to stray on it, way back when! ?  I'm guessing that I at some point in this or the previous thread, always connected her disappearance to Easter weekend in order to jog memories of readers on the thread.

Here is a very interesting link... especially for those of you who are "waterways savy";  it shows depths in all parts of the lake... and especially, shows every range road and cow path into Chin Lake.  Impressive, I must say.  Kind of thing that would have come in handy for any quick thinking investigator back in 1981.  ... but then again????

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/49.6350/-112.2150

I went online to look at wooden fishing huts for sale. One I found could sleep five, had a furnace, fridge, etc.

I wonder if Kelly Cook's killer to her to Chin Reservoir directly after he picked her up. It's obvious to me that he chose a familiar place to dump her.  The Chin was one of his fishing spots, IMO.

If he took her to a fishing hut on the still-frozen reservoir, would anyone have noticed or heard anything, especially if they were running generators? Did he chose a figure skater because he knew he could overpower her due to her size, and what about disposing of her through the auger hole? It is windy at Chin in the winter, so it makes sense that concrete cinder blocks and things like chains would be on hand.

I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

My opinion only.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2018, 05:11:26 PM »
Quote
I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

for sure! Step forward.  However; I suspect he took her elsewhere... such as a place of business he had keys to.  ... and waited until he thought best how and when to dump the child's body. :'(

... don't forget, he had to get that big fancy car off the roadways first.... and probably wasn't intending to drive it to the reservoir area .. bad ruts on the roads etc. and a target for attention.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #217 on: June 01, 2018, 05:29:51 PM »
Cinder blocks are used to sink fish shelter, like old Christmas trees, into bodies of water. This kind of shelter is said to help the fish. Thereby improving fishing later in the season.

This guy was an experienced fisherman who might have been able to talk his way out if he was seen doing something questionable. He wad so bold that he might have waited until thaw to head out in broad daylight. He was Mr. Invisible.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #218 on: June 01, 2018, 06:55:38 PM »
Quote
I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

for sure! Step forward.  However; I suspect he took her elsewhere... such as a place of business he had keys to.  ... and waited until he thought best how and when to dump the child's body. :'(

... don't forget, he had to get that big fancy car off the roadways first.... and probably wasn't intending to drive it to the reservoir area .. bad ruts on the roads etc. and a target for attention.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #219 on: June 02, 2018, 11:36:15 AM »
What a shame that criminal profiling wasn't being done at the time of Kelly's murder. I don't know if it could be done retroactively as part of a cold case investigation, with whatever infomation is available about this man. A lot more is known today about the kind of man who would carefully plan and act out the abduction and murder of a 15-year-old girl. This kind of person is not unique, unfortunately. They follow stereotypical patterns of behavior, and come from cartain backgrounds which form the basis of profiling. There are variations from the "norm", but generally profiling can provide some insight that may be useful to investigators. It's one more tool in the toolbox.

What occurred to me looking back over previous discussion early in this thread was the talk about how doggedly this perp pursued a figure skater. When the first figure skater wasn't available, he waited until he could find another figure skater. I wondered why he went after girls in that club and that town -- did he have a grudge against the town, or just figure skaters? If he had a grudge against figure skaters of that age, why? There were figure skating clubs in other towns in the area, so why that club? Maybe it was just a matter of choosing a club far enough away from where he lived, so that he wouldn't be recognized. Maybe he was a creepy hanger-on at a club where he lived, so he went further afield.

The town might not have mattered so much. A specific girl might not have mattered, but she had to be a figure skater of a certain age. Kelly had a different hair colour from his first target. The choice of Kelly might have been random in that way, simply because she was available and he couldn't keep coming back to the Standard area asking for figure skater babysitters forever, without someone catching on.

I wonder about transference. Did this guy transfer his feelings onto Kelly, a stranger? Was he acting out some scenario that he couldn't act out with the real object of his sick delusions?

Pedophiles don't change. This guy must have committed more than one offence, even if he didn't murder again. IMO, he is completely without remorse, a psychopath.

FWIW:

http://noelbell.net/tag/transference/

What happened to him in his (highly dysfuctional ) family of origin? Families know. And dysfunctional families are very effective at keeping secrets through a system of toxic shame. Intergenerational abuse is a hard nut to crack, but someone in this family needs to break the cycle. Unbroken, these patterns will continue in future generations. The only way out is to spill the beans.

Is it too late? Have the family members died off, and whoever remains is so cowed down and fearful that they won't tell the ugly family secrets? Do they have some false loyalty about preserving the family name and reputation?

It's never to late to try to bring horrible wrongs out of the darkness into the cold light of justice. The truth can set you free.

MOO.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:40:06 AM by wellwell »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #220 on: June 02, 2018, 01:28:39 PM »
I think Kelly Cook's killer fits the predatory stalker profile:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201212/the-predatory-stalker

I believe there was a sexual motive for this abduction and murder. Physical evidence would have been destroyed in the water.

This man is, or was, hiding in plain sight.

Concerned

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #221 on: June 03, 2018, 12:23:01 PM »
For the many years I've been on this site, I don't remember looking at the information on this case file. But, being a new reader to the information a few items came to mind when reading over half the file so far, but I need clarification on a few items:

- it was mentioned that he called from a gas station, what location was the gas station?
- he tried to find the girl's name that was pictured in the ice skating picture, was that the same girl that was a waitress?
- the girl he spent days hunting down, what were the details of the conversation he had with her about babysitting... type of girl he was looking for if she was not available?- - if he had gone to great lengths to wait for and try to find the identify of the girl in the photo... why would he just give up and look for a babysitter she recommended? It would seem to me that he would have waited until she got off from work and just messed with her... if waited several days to find her identity and talk to her. It seems odd he would move on to another that babysat. Then the focus becomes more on someone who babysat than on the girl that ice skates.
- was he seen at a laundromat? did I read that anywhere, if so what laundromat location?
- was he seen at a hotel, or was that just the hotel bar he was at to ask the girl if she knew of babysitters?
- Was the girl pictured in the newspaper ice skating the same girl he was asking about to the principle and the first girl he approached to see if she could babysit?
- and can someone confirm that the phone call of the screaming person they think is Kelly... was that near or across from an ice arena?
- of the three girls he asked to babysit, were all three ice skaters? Was Kelly an ice skater?

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #222 on: June 03, 2018, 03:54:39 PM »
For the many years I've been on this site, I don't remember looking at the information on this case file. But, being a new reader to the information a few items came to mind when reading over half the file so far, but I need clarification on a few items:

- it was mentioned that he called from a gas station, what location was the gas station?
- he tried to find the girl's name that was pictured in the ice skating picture, was that the same girl that was a waitress?
- the girl he spent days hunting down, what were the details of the conversation he had with her about babysitting... type of girl he was looking for if she was not available?- - if he had gone to great lengths to wait for and try to find the identify of the girl in the photo... why would he just give up and look for a babysitter she recommended? It would seem to me that he would have waited until she got off from work and just messed with her... if waited several days to find her identity and talk to her. It seems odd he would move on to another that babysat. Then the focus becomes more on someone who babysat than on the girl that ice skates.
- was he seen at a laundromat? did I read that anywhere, if so what laundromat location?
- was he seen at a hotel, or was that just the hotel bar he was at to ask the girl if she knew of babysitters?
- Was the girl pictured in the newspaper ice skating the same girl he was asking about to the principle and the first girl he approached to see if she could babysit?
- and can someone confirm that the phone call of the screaming person they think is Kelly... was that near or across from an ice arena?
- of the three girls he asked to babysit, were all three ice skaters? Was Kelly an ice skater?

This whole incident took place over time. You'll find many of your questions aleady answered in the threads, but some parts of the story are vague and confusing. There were three towns involved: Strathmore, Standard and Hussar (gas station). Landmarks have come and gone. Hussar was pretty small and desolate, if that's the right term. Someone said even the gas station is gone now.

Kelly was a figure skater, who skated with the club in Strathmore. She lived in Standard, where she was abducted.

The original figure skater was blonde. Kelly was brunette.

Hotels had beer offsales. In those days, liquor stores were government-owned, with limited hours. The small hamlets didn't have liquor stores. And besides, even back then liquor stores had security cameras focused on the entrance doors. This guy bought beer at the hotel and complained about the change. He had trouble using a pay phone. Rural pay phones worked differently from city pay phones, but most city people didn't know that.

About the call believed to have come from Kelly, she may have been trying to make a collect call home. Sometimes an operator would answer, but sometimes you'd be told to say your name and an automated system would put the call through while you waited. If she said her name, no one would be looking for her. But She ran out of time.

Kelly had already been gone for about 90 minutes by the time the call went through. She may have already been assaulted by thrn, and her abductor was moving her to a second location. This vould be why the RCMP think she was murdered soon after she was taken, aside from the fact that this is the case in most abduction-murders for that age group. He wouldn't let her live after the phone call.

Kelly's friends and other girls had to grow up in the area knowing he was and still is out there.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 05:13:36 PM by wellwell »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #223 on: June 03, 2018, 04:24:15 PM »
Why did Kelly's killer choose the name "Bill"? I think it was carefully planned like everything else about this murder. "Bill" was someone he didn't like very much. Bill may have been someone he despised. He could have thought he was very clever by pinning this on Bill: secret revenge.

Another thing I've thought about was the closure of the Atlas Mine in 1981, and that other story involving a stranger looking for babysitters in Canmore. Canmore, like the Drumheller area, has old abandoned mines.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 05:14:21 PM by wellwell »

Concerned

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #224 on: June 03, 2018, 10:34:23 PM »
Thank you WellWell for the summaries. Here is where my mind has been going upon first review....

- I feel the guy was somehow connected to figure skating, or an obsession with figure skaters, or an attraction to that.
- He was 30-40 and described as heavy set of sorts. Possibly rejected at some point in his dating life.
- At 30-40 he could have had his own family with perhaps a daughter in figure skating where he goes to the competitions, skating performance, etc. Or, a hockey player that would see the performance before or after practice or games.
- I get the feeling like a girl in graceful and revealing outfits was something that struck his attention, enough to spend time trying to find a way to get alone with one. Why would that be? Did he attend figure skating events? Have children in figure skating competitions? Work at an ice rink?
- That's why the timeline of the 40-60 minutes after he picked her up, he may have been with her at the ice rink across from the phone. He may have taken her there to fulfill some fetish. Could he have made her perform? Ice skate? Spin? Twirl? Dance on the ice? Did he take her in the ice arena? Or, the parking lot? If he was heavy set, perhaps she tried running. Perhaps she was faster than him being more physically fit. The phone would be her destination... but timing wouldn't allow her a conversation, but hope.
- The fact that she was fully clothed, and possibly made the phone call could mean that he was having her "skate" for him, but had not touched her yet. She ran perhaps and then he had to murder her (in his mind) without finishing his original intent.
- It wasn't necessarily that he was following the original figure skater he saw in the newspaper, but a skater if he didn't mind being referred to another one. That's why I'm wondering when he asked the original figure skater of interest and she wasn't available, if he asked if she know of other "skaters" or another skater on her team who babysat? That's why I really wanted to know if the conversation was ever fully disclosed.


- It's interesting that city folk may not know how phones work like rural folk. That gives us a clue that he may have not lived there. Confirmed by others not recognizing him in the small town. But, yet familiar enough to be around the ice arena with an abducted ice skater. What is the ice skating connection?
- One of the reasons I was interested in knowing about the laundromat is that would also confirm that he did not live around there, but long enough to need his clothes washed. More transient then, perhaps rather than living near or living there. Still don't know if it was confirmed that he used the laundromat.

- The river Kelly was found in is of interest. It would seem rather easy for him to dump her over a bridge, but if the distance signifies that could not have happened, I'm really wondering how he would have had access to a boat to take her into the lake. He had a car, but where did the boat come from if he wasn't from the area?
- If he was a fisher, do they typically keep their boats in the area somewhere? Who checked out their boat around that time.
- If you are not from the area how did that spot become viable? How did the means become available?
- I get the feeling he lived away from the area, but in a bigger city atmosphere. He perhaps fished in the area. He somehow went to ice arenas... was he a hockey player, parent of an ice skater who went to competitions? Worked at the ice arena and had access in?
- When younger did he have a crush on an ice skater that rejected him?

- The fact that he contracted her for babysitting, he knew he had limited timeframe before someone would be searching for her. That makes me believe that he may have had children himself, found it easy to hire a babysitter, knew the timeframe... because lets face it, disposing of her body in the river when a search was likely would be risky at best, unless he was on his own self-imposed 1-3 hour timeframe for all to be done and he be back home.
- Did he have the boat in waiting as part of the evenings events? Perhaps with cinder blocks in it?

It feels like the ice arena, the ice skater, the fishing locations have an odd connection. Far enough away to be unfamiliar with phones, close enough to be known to find a boat and rid of the body fairly quickly before all were searching for her. It feels like the events would happen all in one night because it would be too risky to try to dispose of her in the days after, in the area of question.

Just some first impressions. Open to them being picked apart.