Author Topic: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2  (Read 73634 times)

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #240 on: June 06, 2018, 12:33:09 PM »
Going back to a previous point, we know little about what Kelly's killer wore.

If an occasional visitor to town usually wore winter coveralls, workboots and a ball cap pulled down over his forehead, who would recognize him with no hat, sunglasses and clothes that looked like what every other man in town wore?

Females generally notice these things better than males.

A few more points for today.

It takes strength to haul a body through snow on an ice-covered lake. If Kelly's killer drove onto the ice, where was the access point? Did he switch vehicles? Muddy fields in spring are only good for getting stuck.

When they talk about how far from shore Kelly was found, which shore: the high-level shore when the reservoir was full, or the shore in June 1981 when water levels had dropped dramatically from the norm? Details like this are so annoying.

It's kind of like me wondering where the other potential babysitters lived, if they all attended the same church and went to the same school, and if they were all past or present figure skaters. Were they all Danish descendants, except for Kelly? No answers.

I've even wondeted if Kelly trusted this guy when she met him because helooked like someone she'd seen in passing.

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #241 on: June 06, 2018, 08:46:14 PM »
wellwell
Quote
It takes strength to haul a body through snow on an ice-covered lake. If Kelly's killer drove onto the ice, where was the access point?

That's kindof the point.. we may assume that the lake conditions were as described above, but were they really like that on the day Kelly was murdered? Water levels are one thing and can be an indicator of the previous winter weather but spring is a funny sort of time. The difference from one day to another can be quite extreme in southern Alta. It is chinook country and a few of those can alter the landscape dramatically. So what I seek, the actual condition of the lake and shoreline on that particular day may not be all that easy to deduce. Arnold claimed it was no problem to just wade in off the shore. No fishing hut drop hole, no nothing. Just open water. As we can see, that would not be the usual sort of conditions one would come up with from a guess. Perhaps the only one who knew and would recall the actual lakeshore condition on that day was the killer? If one is to call it b.s. it would be nice to have the proof. Not sure we have that yet..

thanks to all who looked and sent me info..

ps.. SAP thank you, I haven't been able to view the info in your link due the png format. Won't convert easily. 
 http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.150


« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:56:43 PM by D1 »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #242 on: June 07, 2018, 08:04:56 PM »
http://transfixed.net/trans/docs/images/Woods_files/doc028woodsbio.htm

Terry Arnold in Chilliwack-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.0

So wtf is up with all of this? If you continue to follow along in time you will next see this same cop pop up later in the pig farm case, this time as the partner to Kim Rossmo as he developed his geographic profiling software.
These are facts, I would have to speculate as to the purpose behind all this but I have to say that the government of Canada should be sued by all of the victims families for what they have done here. Arnold is virtually treated as a protected perverted guinea pig test study for a profiler learning how they work and eventually reducing it to a software program to catch the ones coming along afterwards. The murdered little girls are justifiable consequences to them. The law is with them.. (witness protection laws of all things)
Class action is needed..
Excuse me while I go throw up!

Quote
Information on Glen Woods:
Mr. Glenn Woods, Owner: Behavioural Analysis Investigation & Training (BAIT) Group
A former member of the RCMP for 35 yrs he was originally posted in the Lower Mainland of B.C. spending 10 years in
Surrey Detachment on General Duties, Drug Enforcement, Fraud and Serious Crime Units. Other postings in BC included
the Co-ordinated Law Enforcement Unit, Chilliwack Drug Section and Drug Intelligence and Field Operations as the
witness protection coordinator for the province.
In 1989 he was transferred to Ottawa as the National Source/Witness
protection coordinator and then in 1990 to Staffing and Personnel Branch.
In January 1995 he began a 2 year Criminal Investigative Analysis (profiling) Understudy Training Program administered
by the International Criminal Investigative Analysis Fellowship (ICIAF) in cooperation with the FBI, and became a
certified Criminal Profiler in 1997.
Over the course of his career he has been involved in the investigation of numerous homicides, sexual assaults, arson, fraud
and drug cases. He retired from the RCMP in May, 2007 as the Director, Behavioural Sciences responsible for several
operational support programs including, ViCLAS, the National Sex Offender Registry, Polygraph, Statement Analysis,
Criminal Investigative Analysis (Criminal Profiling), Geographic Profiling and Threat Assessment.
Since 1996 he has been a regular speaker at the Canadian Police College, the Atlantic Police College, Toronto Police
Service and the Ontario Police College where he has lectured on a number of investigative courses including: Major Crime
Investigators, Major Case Management, Forensic Interviewers, Advanced Identification and Post Blast. He has been a
guest lecturer at Carleton University & Algonquin College and has also presented at numerous conferences in Canada, the
United States and Europe.
Mr. Woods is currently the owner of BAIT Group, a company that provides analytical, investigative & training services to
public agencies and private sector firms.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 01:12:52 AM by D1 »

Concerned

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #243 on: June 08, 2018, 02:02:55 PM »
D1, I can't believe you were exposed to all that. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. 

You new BS, she wanted help confronting TA. When she did he ran raucous and a person was raped that night. Did BS break up with him that night?
What do you think kept him from going after you. After all you came with her when she confronted him. Odd when he gets disgruntled he takes it out on innocent others and not BS the person who confronted him.

Then if I read correct when you met up with him years later he was bragging about all those details and on that night at that night at the bar you gave him a hassle about bragging about harming little girls. and more happens... thus your theory on the pattern and way he picks. Why do you think he may have picked the church lady.

So how did he say he got on the lake.. walked on ice? boat on water?  i just can't see someone tie someone up and put on blocks in the hole others may use.

How did Barb rid of him without getting hurt?

Regarding your experience with GW, again i'm sorry you went through that. The knowing, the witnessing, the not being able to do anything about it. I bet that made you feel helpless to believe there would be any reprieve or justice.

Did TA know he was being followed, studied, protected to some extent I wonder?

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #244 on: June 09, 2018, 10:00:20 AM »
way back when we all debated a lot of this that D1 was exposed to , I always had a gut feeling that Terry Arnold escalated at a point that he became "friendly with" or in some kind of "kahoots with" one of these double dealing, controlling police officers (or crooked RCMP operatives)  ... and at that time, I felt it highly possible that Terry Arnold, while skulking around and enjoying some "carte blanch" afforded to him by rogue authority little clique, prevalent at the time (and no doubt still in practice by crooked police) was quite possible the "sudden striking, in the heat of the moment" perpetrator who grabbed little Jo-anne Peterson while she was confused (by being locked out of her house and out after dark in pouring rain trying to reach parents, who were out partying at a legion or bar at the time.... and who didn't respond or react properly to her call - made from the candy store at the time.)  Grant it, the child would have been in a seriously precarious situation given the facts that there were various people and vehicles speeding in and fleeing the same store .... and many unknown and/or unidentified people all involved all within minutes of her being snatched. ... but it has always bothered me that it just so happened that Arnold may have been staying at a trailer not far down the road.  And he is one to stay with vulnerable women, get disturbed or bored easily, and go out and in minutes find a young victim to take it out on.  .... And the area did have an active bar and military facilities and housing along the same street.  So it all kinda got left up in the air.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 12:31:43 PM by lostlinganer »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #245 on: June 10, 2018, 03:14:41 AM »
Concerned, glad you posted those questions.. I have left some wrong impressions.

Quote
You new BS, she wanted help confronting TA. When she did he ran raucous and a person was raped that night. Did BS break up with him that night?
What do you think kept him from going after you. After all you came with her when she confronted him. Odd when he gets disgruntled he takes it out on innocent others and not BS the person who confronted him.

T.A. and Barb S. were never a couple. They were only forced to interact due they both got jobs with the same carnival company. I was not alone when we went with Barb and confronted Arnold. There were 6 of us. Barb pretty well did all the talking and did it very well. She picked out the points by which he could be identified as the peeper and drilled in on him, cornering him and pointing it out to everyone what he was all about. Barb had distain for him. Barb may have been young but she was tough minded and spoke straight to the point. Arnold I believe was in some ways impressed and intimidated by her. That may have held him off for the time being, that and the 5 witnesses standing there watching as Arnold cringes, his eyes darting from one face to the other as Barb spoke. In the end he had no defense and just closed his booth for the night but you got the sense he was seathing inside.

Quote
Then if I read correct when you met up with him years later he was bragging about all those details and on that night at that night at the bar you gave him a hassle about bragging about harming little girls. and more happens... thus your theory on the pattern and way he picks. Why do you think he may have picked the church lady.
Quote
So how did he say he got on the lake.. walked on ice? boat on water?  i just can't see someone tie someone up and put on blocks in the hole others may use.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 03:19:02 AM by D1 »

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #246 on: June 10, 2018, 03:35:36 AM »
re - lostlinganer
Quote
but it has always bothered me that it just so happened that Arnold may have been staying at a trailer not far down the road.  And he is one to stay with vulnerable women, get disturbed or bored easily, and go out and in minutes find a young victim to take it out on

For me the final straw in regard Joanne Pedersen came when a Police officer informed me that the place Arnold stayed while in Chilliwack was next door to the where the car suspected in the abduction resided. Arnold claimed to have stolen a neighbors car that night and then returned it to its parking spot after the murder. There was only one car of that make model and color in the entire town of Chilliwack. A dozen or so young men saw it that night and all identified it.

So there you have Arnold living across the street from Where Barb S. worked when she was murdered, and living next door to the suspect vehicle when Joanne P. was murdered. You can't just look away from this sort of thing and believe that some of our highly trained investigators and profilers didn't know.. We have been played, the victims families even worse. You can still hear how much faith they all have in the RCMP to this day..

Concerned

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #247 on: June 10, 2018, 06:10:47 AM »
Thank you for the further clarification. I'm still wading through the threads and it may take a while. I didn't realize that BS was also murdered. How long after the confrontation do you think? That would insinuate he kept grudges. And, didn't always take it out on others but may have gone back when focus was off the heat of the moment.

It makes me curious of TA's life story. What happened in early life that he felt the need to do these things. Or, was it just a condition. I'm curious but hate to read up on these perps and their demons.

Again, thanks. I'll probably have more questions when I get up to the point I'm not asking silly questions.

I hope your life kept you away from these monsters and demons. It doesn't sound like fun. But, then again, it doesn't sound like you back off from it either.

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #248 on: June 10, 2018, 10:22:24 AM »
Since we're back to TA again, I have a question for you, D1. Do you know how long TA lived at the house in Calgary down the street from Denise Lapierre's house? I'm asking because there is a funeral home about 1.7 km away from that location (only a few minutes by car). In 1981, there was a small funeral home even closer, on 16 Ave. NW near 4 St. It became a pub in the intervening years. He sermed to know this part of the city.

I started thinking about who could have tipped the man off, the one who went to the funeral home when no one knew Kelly was there. The police likely knew, yes, as this was a high-profile case and surely they should have had someone posted in or outside at the funeral home. They were looking for the killer. But the funeral home handling Kelly's service closer to home also would have known. So I looked to see if funeral homes east of Calgary ever hire retired RCMP. Yes, they do. So there you go.  I just wanted to put this out there. I don't know if this was the case in 1981.

Back to Standard, the local arena/Legion is very close to Standard School. And the Lutheran church is a block away from the arena. A new community hall is across the street from the church, maybe on the site of the old community hall? The Standard Hotel is still standing with a phone booth outside. The RCMP detachment is gone, and I have no idea where it was.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 10:35:18 AM by wellwell »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #249 on: June 10, 2018, 12:51:47 PM »
wellwell... just a clarification on a few things:

Jo-anne Peterson was abducted in Chilliwack, BC .. not anywhere near Standard, Alberta;  but we always wondered if Arnold could have been the one.... and Jo-Anne Peterson's body was never found .. so nobody knows for sure she was murdered... if memory serves me.

So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #250 on: June 10, 2018, 01:47:01 PM »
wellwell
Quote
Since we're back to TA again, I have a question for you, D1. Do you know how long TA lived at the house in Calgary down the street from Denise Lapierre's house?

Not long and nowhere near the time of Kelly's murder as far as I know. This was the home of Arnold's then girlfriend and her 16 yr. old daughter in and around the time of Denise's murder. (1987) Note Denise was another murder victim found very close by Arnold, in fact right outside his back door. 

So by the time that Roberta Ferguson disappeared from Chilliwack in 1988, after last being seen hitch hiking right outside Arnold's door, there was no excuse for Police to have been looking elsewhere at anyone else other than Arnold. From there they can just keep backing up in time to bring him right back here to Kelly who may well have been Arnold's first victim. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 02:31:05 PM by D1 »

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #251 on: June 10, 2018, 01:48:36 PM »
wellwell... just a clarification on a few things:

Jo-anne Peterson was abducted in Chilliwack, BC .. not anywhere near Standard, Alberta;  but we always wondered if Arnold could have been the one.... and Jo-Anne Peterson's body was never found .. so nobody knows for sure she was murdered... if memory serves me.

So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.

I am not straying into Chilliwack at all. I am referring only to Kelly Cook and the area in which she lived and died.

Concerned, this page may be of interest to you. Notice how the suspect was once considered to be 40 to 45 years of age. Chin Lake or one of the adjacent irrigation canals? Big difference! Canals are drained in the fall.

The story kept on changing. The police hinted that they had something from the autopsy report to identify Kelly. Was she bound with ropes, or tied to two concrete blocks?

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.705

debbiec

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #252 on: June 10, 2018, 02:11:00 PM »
Quote
So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.

I agree.

D1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #253 on: June 10, 2018, 02:37:03 PM »
Concerned:
Quote
Thank you for the further clarification. I'm still wading through the threads and it may take a while. I didn't realize that BS was also murdered. How long after the confrontation do you think? That would insinuate he kept grudges. And, didn't always take it out on others but may have gone back when focus was off the heat of the moment

Barb was murdered Dec 1981, that conversation at the carnival took place Aug/1980. I think Arnold was infatuated with Barb and thought he could get together with her.. He moved in right across the street from her work place and frequented the business. She likely had to be a bit polite to him at work but obviously at some point reality prevailed and Arnold may have been put down again in the process. He was virtually stalking her ..

wellwell

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #254 on: June 10, 2018, 03:16:30 PM »
There were two places to drink in Standard. The hotel was one.