Author Topic: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2  (Read 75198 times)

AaronP

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #135 on: August 04, 2016, 07:49:11 PM »
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19476605/How-dogged-DNA-work-caught-child-killer-Clifford-Sleigh


The police did eventually catch the killer, years later. Here are some interesting quotes about how the investigation proceeded:





As for contacting the police, as per my earlier experience with CrimeStoppers, they told me that if you submit tips via CrimeStoppers, police will not follow up with you or even acknowledge you unless there is a valid reason for doing so (i.e., the police feel your tip has real validity), because they simply lack the manpower to do so. It'd be better if you called the RCMP and spoke to someone in charge re: any potential bona-fide leads you may have. But as per the case cited above, police receive a lot of useless tips in the course of a high-profile criminal investigation. As I mentioned in a posting earlier, when serial killer Karla Homolka confessed her crimes to a lawyer, she had a tough time getting him to believe her because there had been so many people actually confessing to the murder of Kristen French (a high-profile murder case). So if you have a tip, it'd be helpful to have some good facts to back up your claim. Simply stating that you suspect that 'John Doe' did it probably will not be enough to get the police interested.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #136 on: August 05, 2016, 07:01:26 AM »
Yes AaronP;  I get all that; this is not my first rodeo.  There are tips and then There Are Tips.  If a neighbor came forward and said they saw so and so on or near the property of a house that was broken into, that is a tip.  Police ask for these tips all the time, useless or not, every day - in order to weed out suspects until they arrive at the right one.  But if a sincere person goes directly to police and states that the guy next door carried the "known stolen item's" out of a truck and into his garage, that tip might just get a quicker "look". .... and again, if such a tip came from a person living with that thief, then that has to be a tip that raises a red flag first.

If an investigator who is given that tip, chooses to keep it to himself, then gets busy with something else for days - forgetting the lead he was given on the robbery case (or just wants to keep it to himself until he has time to address it himself) then that case with its red flag tip can get forgotten or lay dormant forever, unless a concerned person (or victim) nags for an update.  If, with all the nagging and unanswered messages, the victim or tipster still sees no action regarding the crime, what is their next move?  .... How many months or years should they wait for the police to take their official statement?  maybe give your information to the person whose home contents were stolen?

What about cases of unsolved murders?  If police think a sincere person is misleading them about a murder, ... or not credible for some reason, they shouldn't promise that they will be coming around to take a "formal statement". 

There are many cases that police actually "put witness off" and/or just don't want to accept or deal with certain cases.

CCF

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I am shocked that there was no description given of his vehicle, nor what type of clothing that he wore, as{ he} it is believed, had made prior trips to Standard - before he made his move.
If he was into calving, or farming, would he not wear a cowboy type hat or something like it?
And --- would he not wear cowboy boots?
Wasn't that the general country garb worn by men in that area, for that type of work?
And her sister said "a car pulled up" - odd that he did not drive a truck.... the most common type of vehicle for those parts - if he went from farm to farm.
Is it possible that he was not involved in any of this type of work, as suggested?
Taber is a 2 hour drive to Standard.  I am wondering if he lived closer, say ---- Brooks.
Brooks is only a one hours drive away.  Close enough to Standard, but far enough away not to be easily recognized.

I think part of the key is what was his reason for being in Strathmore, where this is the most likely place he would have obtained a copy of the newspaper where he set his sights on the figure skater.  Was he passing through and saw it in a restaurant, did he live in Strathmore temporarily or longer?  Did he live within an hour or two's drive of Standard and Chin Lake?  Standard, even today is such a small place he would have stuck out like a sore thumb had he been hanging around the place for more than a day. 

Very early on in one of those Alberta Report articles referenced by AaronP, how the composite sketch was made was that someone matching the description of the POI had went to a gas station and tried to use the pay phone from it (the gas station no longer exists in 2016).  Unbeknownst to him, you had to dial the number first and when a person answered on the other end, that is when you dropped the change in to the phone.  This is strongly believed why the first time the phone rang that morning, no one was on the other end because he dropped the money in first and wasn't able to talk to Kelly.  He went back to the phone, dialled the Cook's residence, and was able to connect the call on his second attempt.  The attendant and a trucker overheard parts of the conversation apparently of him talking with Kelly after one of them told them how to operate the pay phone.  If not for that, there may not have been any kind of description of him.

As you said, AaronP has brought forward a ton of very useful info from articles he retained and had posted early on in Part 1.    As a refresher and for those who are reading the thread and don't know the background, basically the timeline looks like this from information posted by AaronP (and others):

1) March 1981 (no specific date): The principal of the Standard school is contacted and a male is wanting personal information about a student. No info is given and the man hangs up.  I am presuming it was the original intended target who the caller was trying to solicit information about (the figure skater photographed in a local Strathmore newspaper around or shortly before that time).

2) Saturday, April 18, 1981: "Original Intended Target" is contacted to babysit.  She declines and is asked for other girls names and numbers; Kelly's contact info is given.

3) Wednesday, April 22, 1981: Approximately 8:30 a.m., the phone rings.  Kelly answers, but no one is there on the other end.  Five minutes later, the phone rings again, this time it is Bill Christensen asking her to babysit.  He gains her confidence and trust by reciting some of her neighbours on the cul-de-sac the Cooks lived on.  She agrees to babysit and he would pick her up around 8 p.m.  I'd like to know how he was able to learn the neighbours names aside from looking them up in a phonebook-which may or may not have had the addresses besides the names for the residents of Standard.  Had he or any other type of door to door salesman had come to the neighbours in those four days, you'd think the neighbours would have shared that info as well.

4) POI is later seen at the Standard Hotel bar (unknown approximate time) where he buys a case of beer, uses the phone and leaves.

5) Kelly is picked up sometime between 8 & 8:30 p.m.; a phone call to an operator around 10 p.m. is made from a pay phone in Hussar where a female screams into the phone and then the phone is hung up. 

6) June 28, 1981: Kelly's body is found clothed, but with her hands and feet bound to cinder blocks in Chin Lake, approximately 200 yards from the north shore bridge (two football fields) and "several yards from shore".  What is several though, 20? 30?...75?

This guy is a very organized individual and pays very close attention to detail, ie: counted his change.  As I've stated in the past, April 17, 1981 was Good Friday that year.  He didn't call Kelly for FOUR days after he got her contact info.  He took those four days to gather as much information as he could, such as learning who her next door neighbours were so he could tell Kelly this to gain her trust.  This guy just didn't fly by the seat of his pants, he had everything planned, including the dump site (and is why I will never consider Terry Arnold as a suspect-two completely different M.O.s from what murders he is a known suspect).  I still often wonder if he didn't have a chain saw with him and he cut a large chunk of ice out to put her body through.  Again-organizational skills come into play here: who would think to check lakes and sloughs, etc. in mid April when they are still iced over? The only reason her body was found was the irrigation use was heavy that spring and summer and caused the water levels to drop substantially exposing her body.  If not for that, who knows when or possibly if she would have been ever found.   

The thing that has always bugged me about the description is how contradictory it is, in my opinion anyways.  It states he was 160-170 pounds, about 5'10-5'11 but was "heavy set".  I'm 5'10 and am 205.  I do not consider myself "heavy set" but more of an athletic build-your prototypical "Dad-bod" lol.  If I was 160 to 170, I'd be a skeleton- like a good friend of mine who weighs about 170-175, is my height but he is lean.  I'm thinking this guy's more accurate weight based on the "barrel chested" and "heavy set" descriptors was probably 215-225 pounds.  Another thing to consider is he may have been a body builder because they all have that barrel chested look when they are not in competition season shedding fat and bulk.  No one seems to have seen this guy without a coat to see if he was "heavy set" in the overweight/fat sense of the word or if he carried a lot of muscle but was not chiseled/defined/ripped, but bulky.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 01:05:25 AM by CCF »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2016, 10:23:47 PM »
I am guessing the Cook family have given up hope of ever finding that child's killer this late in time.  When families of victims spend decades getting their hopes up that investigators will nab that right suspect, only to end up disappointed again and again.... no doubt, it is more and more painful and tiring each time that happens;  no doubt the fear of such over and over, eventually outweighs the fear of that killer evading justice forever.  That makes it so easy for the RCMP to just concentrate on other things. 

It is ironic that so very many cases are still sitting in cyber space with the old familiar "contact RCMP or Crimestoppers" with information" but when people try to give them the information on "cold cases", they push those people away, if the victim's families are not pressing for updates.  As I understand it, the Cook family don't push for updates anymore since Kelly's father is gone.  He must have been the "driving force" for justice for Kelly imo.

God rest her precious young soul ...  taken far before her time, and now just a painful, resurfacing ache in the hearts of those who fought most of their lives ...  but the search for him will continue through those of us who just don't know how or when to give up on fighting for justice for the victims of cold cases ..... those of us who are removed from the pain the fighting family members suffer.    Maybe those families are so worn from hurt, they become resigned to just wanting their peace and privacy. 

BTW ...  quote from CCF
Quote
I still often wonder if he didn't have a chain saw with him and he cut a large chunk of ice out to put her body through.  Again-organizational skills come into play here: who would think to check lakes and sloughs, etc. in mid April when they are still iced over? The only reason her body was found was the irrigation use was heavy that spring and summer and caused the water levels to drop substantially exposing her body.  If not for that, who knows when or possibly if she would have been ever found.   
What an excellent point!!!!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 12:00:35 AM by lostlinganer »

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #139 on: September 26, 2016, 10:26:22 AM »
It has been a few years now, that RCMP from Airdrie, Alberta have been sitting on a major tip about a suspect in this case.  I got it from the grapevine that they are still sitting on more than a doz. other suspects, not yet investigated.

I do know the particulars of one of the suspects, and it is mind boggling to realize he hasn't been "hauled in yet" for questioning.  I actually believe that if a private investigator doesn't follow up on this, it will never get done.

Seems that calling in tips or sending in hard facts to Crime Stoppers or Cold Crime Investigators is a waste of time, unless you have an actual video of the crime happening;  they just don't have the manpower to do the job.  Sad but true!


lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #141 on: September 27, 2016, 12:15:46 AM »
Aaron; I can see where that comment was very insensitive.  I was so frustrated to find out that the family wasn't interested in the tip about an absolute match for Kelly's killer; instead, they rely on the discretion of the RCMP.   
While those who bring such information forward have to cringe in fear of his finding out who they are, cannot push for updates the way the family can, it is hard to digest how people are begged to come forward ... but when they do, it is left up in the air from then on - until and if, in time, some detective might have the time to familiarize his or herself with a few dozen boxes of the case files .... whereas, the killer, now being older and free all this time, may never be brought to justice.  Therefore; I have modified my post to take some of my attitude out of it... not all my attitude, mind you.

wantingtohelp789

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #142 on: September 27, 2016, 10:31:21 AM »
Very very true Lost ....

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #143 on: September 27, 2016, 12:34:48 PM »
Can anybody say if Chin Lake was frozen over (and maybe with ice fishing holes) the night Kelly disappeared.

wantingtohelp789

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #144 on: September 27, 2016, 02:11:59 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, it would have ice fishing holes yes.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #145 on: September 27, 2016, 04:10:18 PM »
I'll bet there are archives that have the temperature etc. for that specific time... maybe even thickness of ice in the area.   I recall someone already spoke of the sun up / sun down time for that day.   I figure it is another piece of "factual" information we can record.  Thank you CCF.

Sap1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #146 on: September 27, 2016, 05:11:14 PM »
By the end of April, the ice around edges of lakes and reservoirs would already have been melted. On smaller bodies of water it would melt sooner. However it also depends on the depth of the body of water.

lostlinganer

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #147 on: September 27, 2016, 05:43:07 PM »
If you go to this link and read the 4 or 5 comments, you'll realize that Chin Lake was/is a favorite fishing spot (some guys know secrets about what stock is added to it and when)  fished all year round ... some guys get together and rent "the whole camp"   - whatever that means! 

The suspect police still haven't investigated was (according to tip) a regular.  http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=26129

.... don't know if this is useful, but throwing it in.  You locals might know if there indeed are rented camps in April.  http://www.albertaparks.ca/albertaparksca/visit-our-parks/activities/#Fishing

... what about Warner?  could there be spring facilities there?  http://www.warnercounty.ca/campgrounds.html

for the record, we know our suspect had access to facilities where he had work done on a regular basis ... I forget where? might have been Husser~
[/i]

In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 06:00:53 PM by lostlinganer »

Sap1

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #148 on: September 27, 2016, 06:39:33 PM »
Some of the lakes around Alberta do have camps set up. Most of the summer the camps are used for children's camps to learn the outdoors and are staffed by counselors, nursing staff, etc. When they are off season for children, the camps can be rented by people for family outings or fishing groups, etc. I don't know if Chin Lake area has any though. They are neat cottages that sleep around 4 to 6 persons ... bunk beds.

The camps I know about are mostly run by a religious affiliation. My kids went every summer through a Lutheran church although we were not Lutheran. There is nothing religious regarding the camping and is mostly a fun time learning wilderness survival skills. 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 06:44:13 PM by Sap1 »

jellybean

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Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
« Reply #149 on: September 27, 2016, 07:18:39 PM »
This is now 2016. I would think that in 1981, facilities may have been rustic.  If any?
I don't know, just wondering.

Chin Lake is now called Stafford. Good fishing, stock fed. today.
Note comments about water levels in March and ice conditions

http://www.ifishalberta.com/lakeFeedback.php?id=384

CCF:  Thank you so much for taking the time out of your life - to give us a timeline.
It places everything into perspective. Easier to picture in one's mind.

This thread has been going for a number of years, and you are the first to do it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost;  Great job!
I just have to say it, from one poster to another...

 With your encouragement,  patience,  understanding and compassion, "that someone" who had a very deep concern about a close relative, reported it to the police detachment. That person had wondered for many, many years, if this very close relative had anything to do with it - as the composite, and timeline, and so forth, along with this relative's behaviour seemed to fit the bill.

You are right, it is up to the detachment to pursue  it.  Time will tell, and we will have no way in knowing....

PEACE
JB



« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 02:38:39 PM by jellybean »