Author Topic: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963  (Read 17066 times)

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2014, 12:04:42 PM »
As has been found for other cases, the little kernels of information that become available to us either through LFP clippings or police reports, are often inaccurate or misleading.  It is curious however, that the police provided the "small details" of a argument between a husband and wife that led to the wife storming out of the house for a "walk" on a cold and snow filled night.  Their mention of this, and the mention of an ex-boyfriend, and M's status as being pregnant are intriguing however.   Such domestic details have been left out of most other released police info on other unsolved cases.  The inclusion herein is therefore peculiar, and perhaps telling.  What was the argument really about?   Why do the police tell us about an ex-boyfriend?  Is it germane to the murder itself that Margaret was pregnant?  Perhaps it was part of the argument?  It is, as if, the police are providing some examples of motivation, rather than information that would be necessarily useful to prompt tips.   To include an assertion by M's husband that the argument was about returning beer bottle - and this alone would lead to M. leaving the house to brave a cold winter night on foot - seems almost a way of making a jest of the husband's story.



Declan = exactly what I was going to post~ You said it first ...lol.  It strikes me as being unusual, as you say, that le would give out all of the personal info.... Including what he did for a living....
There is a reason for it - le do not waste their time nor effort.

Perhaps the argument over beer bottles is true - and cops are amused by it. They may also be giving a clue as the state of the marriage.......including financial stress!
The announcement by police say that there are no suspects.   But they may have persons of interest...and perhaps that is what they are getting at!! Just might be that they need a few more clues to move the perp from a POI into a suspect.

JB
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 04:18:12 PM by jellybean »

Declan

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2014, 05:08:16 PM »
Hi JB and others.

Yes, the typical police info to the public would usually be limited to something like:
1. M. left the townhouse at such and such a time on such and such a night
2. She did not return
3. Police were notified (time and date) that she was missing
4. Her body was found (date and place)


For LE to tell the public that her husband and an ex-boyfriend were considered suspects, is odd...even if we are told that they were cleared.  Certainly sets the public up for all kinds of speculation, and it would forever taint the reputation of the two "cleared" individuals.   For other London unsolved cases there is no mention of suspects past or present, whether they were cleared or not cleared.   The addition of this detail, for Margaret's case therefore stands out like a sore thumb, and is probably meant as a directional arrow.  Revealing to the public that she was pregnant is also odd - unless mentioning this detail to the general public would somehow improve the quality of tips.  It is germane to her murder because .....why?
Mentioning an ex-boyfriend along with the "not necessary to mention" detail of her pregnancy must have been an intentional clue that LE has provided to the general public.   Would, for example, it be useful to tell the public that a victim had diabetes or some other issue, unless there was something helpful in knowing about this?

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2014, 05:21:24 PM »
London, Ontario has a very interesting past! Murders of young women, found with clothes scattered around them, which could lead one to think that perhaps a serial murder is at work here, in the case of Margaret's death.

Quite frankly, I cannot see a serial stalker out in the heavy snow looking for a victim, who just happens to have left her unit in a Huff! HE WOULD WANT TO BE IN  A WARM PLACE, would he not?

So to my mind, an opportunistic killer is out of the equation, for the very reason as I have stated above.




Have faith

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2014, 08:19:18 PM »
Margaret was included in the Project Angel re-investigation (1997-2000).  If there was any collected and stored crime exhibits, they should have been sent for DNA analysis during this probe.

All POI's, suspects and witnesses should have been questioned again, which was 34 years later in Margaret's case.  It is interesting, that LE has included so much personal information on their official website.  For some reason they must feel that it is relevant 51 years later, and that it might lead to a long-awaited tip. 

Declan wonders why tell us she was pregnant?  Going one step farther--why tell us that she got pregnant BEFORE she recently married her husband?  And then throw in that the ex-boyfriend was included in the investigation.  I would have to think that this, and some of the other personal info, was carefully selected by LE.  jmo


Modified to add "ex" to boyfriend.  Must have been a Freudian slip.
   
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 08:23:55 PM by Have faith »

Logical

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2014, 09:05:41 PM »
I think simply because it was 1963. Police, privacy and media were not really what it is today back then, more about freedom of the press and sharing of all the leads and info they have so far. Not about prosecution, more about catching they guy.

Have faith

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2014, 09:47:15 PM »
I think simply because it was 1963. Police, privacy and media were not really what it is today back then, more about freedom of the press and sharing of all the leads and info they have so far. Not about prosecution, more about catching they guy.


I agree that rules were more relaxed back then, and info was more freely given.  (the good ole days lol ). The info we are referring to here, is part of the London Police Service's new "unsolved murders" section that they added to their website in May, 2013, as per the link in reply#4.  Therefore this was written up by LE only 16 months ago.  It does contain much more personal data than the other cases that they added at the same time. 

 

Have faith

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2014, 10:03:57 PM »
I thought I would copy part of that LFPress link before it disappears to their archives in the future.




http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/21/london-police-publish-list-of-10-unsolved-murders

Declan

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2014, 05:29:44 AM »
Thanks for posting this.  Useful to "capture" this information, because sometimes material on the web gets removed and can't be found again.  For example, at one point, years ago - there was a very unsettling web document that had been posted within a website for the London Knights.  I chanced upon it, and found that it contained very high quality pictures that had been used in the LFP articles.  The document in progress purported that new information would blow the four cases open (referring to four of the unsolved cases including JD, JE, and LW).  A few months later the website was no longer active, and I wish I had thought about capturing the information before it was lost.  Why it would be on the London Knights site was particularly odd, except for the connection between JE's case and the Treasure Island Shopping Plaza where the London Knights Ice House was located. 

As to the other point brought forward by HF - that is very interesting to compare the suggested time frame of the pregnancy vs. the months that had past since boyfriend was "ex". 

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2014, 11:24:41 AM »

Questions arise which should be answered first - as to the involvement of the ex boyfriend.  The ex could have been just that-  an EX. A forever good bye - mutual on both sides.

If the ex was still interested - this could open up many questions too.

Did Margaret go to a neighbours to use the phone to call her ex?
  Unless she called ex bf from her home to come and pick her up, this may have caused rage in hubby.

If she used a neighbours phone to call her Ex - then this would have  been reported to police during their customary rap on the doors. - and they would be included as witnesses.

It is interesting that the police talk about witnesses in their last report.    Now, of course the two boys who discovered her remains would be considered witnesses.

I wonder if Margaret and her husband had other people in her home - when this scene occurred?
(the police did not mention "party in the home" nor visitors) And since they gave out very pertinent info on the crime, one would think that they would have included that - if it were true.

Who were the witnesses? Obviously these witnesses did not see her murdered. What was hubbies alibi?
Was their a male buddy in the home when Margaret left?

Did Margaret take that walk, cool off and return home?

JB

PS What time of day did she walk out?  Does anyone know?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 07:20:25 PM by jellybean »

goNgo

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2014, 09:17:36 PM »
Sorry for the late response.

Have Faith is correct, the original details I posted are from my summary transcribed notes, as I didn't want to infringe copyright laws. 

Having said that, my reference to the coat and boots would not have been made unless they were specifically mentioned. I definitely would have focused on the specific facts as reported. There was no conjecture on my part. I simply wanted to capture the basic "facts" so that they were available in a more public venue for future reference.  Of course "the facts" are as reported by the LFP, so I can't guarantee that they weren't subject to some interpretation by the reporter.

Excellent points have been raised by everyone. I don't have time to comment more right now, but I will later.

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2014, 10:48:14 AM »
Quote Declan "Just some speculation.  However, a quick look at the map would suggest that M. was not abducted in a car, killed and left in a hiding place.  Everything happened, instead, in a very tight geographical zone with distances that would be covered in just a couple of minutes on foot. unquote.

Beats me as to why the police could not put all of this together!!  I could easily get hung up on the "where is her coat?",
but if one looks at it with or without the coat, things are fairly clear..... unless there were witnesses in her townhouse who saw her leave.  .To my mind, that is the only way that hubby would not be a suspect. 

If I recall, several witness's were interviewed, and I wonder where these witnesses were at the time she disappeared?  So the two boys who discovered her would be considered two of the several witnesses.  Who were the rest and where were they situated at the time in order to witness anything?

Interesting to note that her hubby reported her missing the next day at 11:40 pm.  The police gave a precise time!
Hmm.  Most husbands would have reported her missing in early am hours, at the latest -  if wife leaves in snow storm at 8:00 pm,  (5 1/2 months pregnant), and had not returned. Most hubbies would have been pacing the floor and calling the police after a few hours.

Were searches ever done for her?  Did he participate?

Her body was found a couple of blocks away according to the map put out by the police.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=margaret+sheeler&biw=1093&bih=445&tbm=isch&imgil=RLh3sEH5PcdONM%253A%253Bm7ypq0giMVNKZM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.police.london.ca%25252Fd.aspx%25253Fs%2525253D%25252FNewsroom%25252FUnsolved_Crimes%25252FMurder_Margaret_Sheeler.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=RLh3sEH5PcdONM%253A%252Cm7ypq0giMVNKZM%252C_&usg=__-gq3AW5lokh7z232LyF-ioUzMzw%3D&ved=0CDoQyjc&ei=rxA4VLmbE4KEjAKg_4DgBg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=RLh3sEH5PcdONM%253A%3Bm7ypq0giMVNKZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.police.london.ca%252FNewsroom%252FUnsolved_Crimes%252FImages%252FMargaret_Sheeler_Map.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.police.london.ca%252Fd.aspx%253Fs%253D%252FNewsroom%252FUnsolved_Crimes%252FMurder_Margaret_Sheeler.htm%3B1427%3B859

I did note that the boyfriend was in the area at the time, and later left for Vancouver.  The optics of this are not looking good for the boyfriend either!!

I am sure it was not a stranger.

JB
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 11:04:26 AM by jellybean »

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2014, 11:22:11 PM »
Further to my above post, quote"where Philip had been transferred for work at a grocery warehouse. Margaret and Philip moved into 21 Bridle Path Lane, London.

Philip may have worked that day. Few people would have the full xmas off  Usually December  25 & 26 boxing day.
by the 1963 calendar, 25 (Wedn) 26 (Thursday) and he probably worked on the 27 (Friday).

quote:" On December 27, 1963, Margaret and Philip were in their residence, where they had an argument over returning beer bottles. After the argument, Margaret went outside for a walk. The weather was cold and it was snowing heavily that evening." unquote

The grocery business being what it is, he may also have had to be at work on the Saturday - the 28th. Perhaps he had hoped that when he returned from work (if he did work) that she would be there.


quote " When she had failed to return by December 28, 1963, at 11:40 pm, Philip Sheeler attended the London Police Department to report his wife missing." unquote

That might explain why he had taken so long to report her missing.

JB




« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 11:27:23 PM by jellybean »

chickapey

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2014, 07:39:20 AM »
Interesting... strange... but she was buried in Wallaceburg under her maiden name. If she was married, why would this be? Women keeping their own names wasn't common until much later ...  any ideas?

Also if her husband worked at a warehouse, would it have been open on a weekend? It's not like it's an actual store but at any rate, not reporting a pregnant woman until the next day seems very off to me

jellybean

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2014, 12:40:20 PM »
He is not a suspect. The cops say SUSPECTS: Unknown.  It may seem open and shut - but on second thoughts is it??

I was trying to figure out why he would have waited all of those hours to report her missing.  This was during the holiday season, and perhaps the cops on duty were thinned out, or busy with traffic accidents etc. etc.
A couple  went missing in my city a few years ago during the holiday season, and those who contacted police with their concerns were encouraged to call around and look for them on their own. Apart from hospitals, they were also encouraged to call airlines, buses etc.

So perhaps Phillip ran into the same situation. ? ? ?

Her last name was Sheeler, according to police.  Perhaps the death certificate etc. would be in her married name, and if the parents had to pay for her funeral and burial, then -- they may have insisted upon using Margaret's maiden name on her gravesite. (Sounds like they did not approve of her marriage to Phillip), Since they were only married for a couple of months,  Margaret would be better known by her maiden name. ? ? ? ?

jb

« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 04:14:48 PM by jellybean »

chickapey

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Re: Margaret Sheeler - London, ON - Murdered - 1963
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2014, 09:11:36 AM »
Maybe the police and paper said it was Sheeler because people living together weren't as accepted until much much later?  If they were married her name on the death certificate would have to be in her legal name which would be Sheeler and wouldn't the stone have to reflect that or at least have Sheeler in brackets? I wonder. If they were married he would be next of kin automatically and have some kind of say in what the stone said and as a grieving husband... wouldn't he insist on that? It just seems really odd to me.

As for waiting, I wonder if he did call police before and was told to call back after 24 hours since she was an adult and the police only go by the call they actually go out on but still... factoring in the weather and her being pregnant, you'd think there would be more cause for alarm. If he didn't call before then it just really makes me wonder what he was up to