Author Topic: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968  (Read 150062 times)

chickapey

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2011, 12:26:15 PM »
I am having trouble finding it too HF... I do remember the post and how close Oak Park was to the area. I wonder if this was after Frankie's disappearance because previous to this, no one seems to take the kids seriously.

Have faith

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2011, 12:54:32 PM »
Thanks Chick--I found the post.  The year was "1968--give or take a year".  No mention of what vehicle he used to lure the kids.  The white van must be from another incident. 


071358

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2011, 02:35:39 PM »
Have Faith,
Do you have any idea about the age of this Candy Man?

Have faith

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2011, 03:12:02 PM »
Chickapey has messaged the poster to see if there are any more details about the "candy man".   I will turn this over to Chick.  I know the poster is trying to remember events from 43 years ago, and that is tough to do.  Many times when I go back that far, I imagine steam coming out of my ears. lol

Hopefully more info will follow.

Over to you Chick.

chickapey

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2011, 07:21:39 PM »
The poster is going to check with her family to see what they remember. It seems it was round the time of the murders though... no wonder... two murders in such close proximity... Jackie Dunleavy and Frankie. My cousin lived on Oxford St across from the Mosque at the time and she would have been about Jackie's age. She remembers the time vividly because before this, she could leave and go around town pretty much all day without her parents paying too much mind as long as she was home for dinner. She said after Jackie Dunleavy, everything changed. It was a case of "if you're not with a friend or two, you're not going" and having to be told where she was at all times, calling home, getting rides from parents or older brothers etc.

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2011, 09:33:31 PM »
Thanks for the first hand account, 071358. Very interesting, and gives a better idea of the topography of that path.

Unfortunately, it also doesn't surprise me that no one took it seriously... but no doubt after Jan 9 and Feb 9 1968, (and several dates in the next few years afterwards) London lost some of its sleepy small-town innocence (naivete?) and was forced to wake up a little .

flower

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2011, 01:31:29 AM »
goNOgo
Just want you to know that the more eyes looking into these old cases, the better....much appreciated.


Did anyone ever research the farming community in the area leads that wore uniforms at the time?
I saw threads about other people who went missing then to and I recall mention of children then seeing a man with a uniform.

I also recall the area to be remote but accessible to the park as it is now.

Is the report on here about sightings at hardware store true or fiction ?

I recall that time area that cameras brownies and radios were big gifts for children.

I also recall that strangers asking for directions or being with children say safety . Did the police look into these possibilties?

Often they get leads they ignore if people in authority or money might not want things explored.

I recall other crimes at the time being hushed by the adults at school and reported often late 1970's nothing done.

It is my sincere hope closure will arrive.


freeman

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2012, 01:32:27 PM »
This page has a video of the CFPL tv news report of the Frankie Jensen search it shows the stretch of road as it appeared at the time.

Go to the video marked "More than 500........

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/on-line-exhibits/cfpl/1968.aspx

Buster

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2012, 03:59:01 PM »
I am the poster who talked about the Candy Man scare at Oak Park Public School. I checked with my Mother and she too recalls that scare. She remembers the murders of Jackie and Frankie also. I played an awful lot in the big swampy wasteland just east of the London Hunt Club, as did other kids back then. I also played in the woods on the north edge of Oakridge Park. Around the time of the murders, there were reports of a stranger roaming both of these areas, so I was not allowed to play there anymore. In the swamp, I found a dug out den in the ground that contained Playboy magazines. At the time I assumed it was a hideout for the local boys, but in hindsite now...I often wonder if it was a hideout for "the man" who was allegedly seen in the area. I wonder if he was abusing boys there.  I am sorry that I cannot recall more detail than this. I donot recall anything about a white van or a man in uniform but my memory is likely not that good.

Buster

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2012, 04:14:45 PM »
Possible link! I just re-read the thread on Jacqueline Dunleavy's murder. Galaxygirl talks about accepting an offer of a ride to school, in a van, she recognized the driver as the "man who serviced the coffee machine at Stanley Variety". Wouldn't he have been wearing a Uniform? What colour was the van? Almost made my heart skip a beat!

chickapey

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2012, 11:40:58 AM »
Welcome, Foghorn.  This is an interesting twist to things with the introduction of the transients. They likely would have done a good job at scaring kids being as they were either mentally ill or just down on life and mad at the world. You expect more of this in the depression era but obviously during this time, the homeless needed to get from point A to B.

I would think Frankie especially would have run like the wind from someone like this or anyone else if he did not know them. This is what bothers me... his brother says he was scared of the river... a little timid maybe... I don't see someone like this going with an adult unless he knew them or was taken by force.

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2012, 10:43:54 PM »
Took a trip to learn more about where Frankie was discovered.

After careful consideration of the map accompanying the April 13, 1968 LFP article (provided on page 2 of the thread), Frankie seems to have been found in the Thames River just east of Valleyview Road, slightly north of where it intersects Centre Road. His body was "bobbing in about three feet of water near the shoreline of a small island". If one looks at the Google satellite photo of the location there are two specifically possible locations for this island:

http://g.co/maps/bf3nz

(For some reason can't seem to get the Google Map image embedded properly -- but clicking on the above link should take you to it.)

On the LFP article map, the arrow points to just below the lot division line. This property line can be seen in the image above to the left. In the river just below that line (if it was extended), one will notice a raised portion in the water. This could be the island, albeit when the satellite image was taken, the water level would have been higher. (The other possibility is that the extensive beach bulging from the west bank might have been covered with water (in which case the river was higher in April 1968, but I'm more likely to see the former area as more likely.)

Things might also become clearer when looking at this image; here is a much higher-res version of the LFP photo of landowner Frank O'Shaugnessy pointing to where Frankie was discovered:



(Courtesy London Free Press Collection of Photographic Negatives, The University of Western Ontario Archives, April 13, 1968)

There's definitely a fair distance between shoreline and the raised island (enough for a dog to swim in-- I had no idea that lump at the bottom of the pic was a dog until I saw the clarified image!).

Mr. O'Shaugnessy seems to be pointing to the farther side of the island, meaning Frankie was floating close to the center of the river until he was caught here. The article indicates the water flowed at four miles an hour here, which is about an average person's walking speed. Certainly that doesn't seem to have been fast enough to continue pulling Frankie (I'm guessing about 65-70 pounds?) from the shallower water along the island edge. (For that matter, take a look at the photo again, and you can see that other things have washed up on the edge of the island as well, likely meaning the main spring thaw by this point in 1968 had already happened and the water level had receded.)

But where might have Frankie have been deposited into the water? The shoreline of the river for several miles prior is somewhat distant from the road itself. In fact, just slightly north of where Frankie was found, the view from the road looks like this:



This is also possibly the clearest view and flattest area down to the river within a couple of miles north of the discovery spot, and the river bends even farther away from the road as one travels north. While I certainly can't fathom everything the perpetrator might have done, I'm fairly certain that he did not carry Frankie across uneven terrain several hundred meters through brush and trees, likely in the dark for less chance of discovery, and possibly leaving a trail in the February snow for landowners to question.

So, obviously it had to be somewhere quick and easily accessible...

« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 01:58:46 AM by rkay »

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2012, 01:04:19 AM »
While there is no way of knowing anything for sure at this point (unless somebody would like to come forward), I would think the simplest solution tends to be the likeliest.
 




Two and a half kilometres (about 3 km of river) north of Frankie's discovery site is Plover Mills Road, a.k.a. Middlesex County Road 16.  The intersection of Valleyview and this road is where the village of Plover Mills once stood, until it vanished at the end of the 19th century-- not one building from that village remains. At the bottom of a wide, deep valley is a large bridge there. On the south side, the remains of the older bridge that once connected the village to the east side can still be seen emerging from the water.

One can see the valley the Thames travels through is very wide, and the river spreads and is not necessarily very deep at this point. In fact, borrowing a photo from the Plover Mills Farm horse farm website that now exists on the Valleyview southeast corner (and apologies to the owners in advance if they'd prefer this photo not used here), one can see that the river can get quite low in the summer a little farther downstream:





My speculation is that Frankie's killer deposited Frankie over the side of this bridge not long after abducting and murdering him (meaning within 24 hours of the morning of Feb. 9th). Because of the tissue in his mouth (suggesting a need for speedy and violent subjugation) and incomplete state of undress (pants and boots off, but not shirt and undershirt, indicates haste), I believe Frankie was assaulted quickly and then disposed of at the killer's earliest convenience.  This is in contrast to Jackie English, who was completely nude (with earrings even removed), and because her body was found much sooner, the coroner's estimate on timing suggested she may have not been put in the water until up to 48 hours after her abduction. So, likely in the evening of February 9th, or before sunrise on the 10th, the killer drove up to this bridge, pulled Frankie's body out of his car and dropped him over the side, then sped away.











As an alternate possibilty, it could be that the killer pulled off the main road onto the service lane, seen above, which once was the main line towards the old bridge. There seems to be a county shed or some sort at the end of it on the riverbank, and I suppose Frankie could have been taken out there, less apparent to any scrutiny from suddenly appearing drivers. That would require that way to have been plowed, and I'm not sure that would have been done. The driver would also risk getting stuck backing out, since there'd be no room to turn around. Still, it might have given the killer more time for whatever reason.




The police divers never found any other articles of clothing, boots or Frankie's lunchpail in their searches of the river. It's possible these items were never even brought to this site but left wherever Frankie was first taken, or perhaps in the car (though one might think if that was the case, that those pieces would also go over the side at the same time then, to remove all trace from the vehicle).  Of course at this point, the killer was in no hurry, as police were only just starting to search along the Thames, but completely on the other side of the city, 17 miles away, for a lost child or runaway. No one would be thinking to be keeping an eye out for anything unusual all this way north of Thorndale, and certainly not along a river in the middle of a particularly cold winter. It wasn't until two full months later that a search would even be considered around the area.

Who knows what might have been discovered, or remembered, if only poor Frankie had been seen here sooner.











« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 01:14:58 AM by rkay »

071358

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2012, 04:04:22 AM »
Remarkable work Yet again RKAY. Do you ever sleep?

chickapey

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2012, 07:23:00 AM »
Excellent as always, Rkay. I think your theory of the killer using the bridge is the most likely solution. It would have been the quickest route and if done at night, better still. No one would really be around. I find it interesting too that the children taken and majority of young women were all in the west end of the city. Would this be indicative of the killer or killers staying in a 'comfort zone'? There must have been at least average knowledge of the Thorndale area as well as the Otterville area as these roads wouldn't be obvious to people today let alone 40+ years ago

The missing items could have been tossed anywhere however I do feel there is something connecting the shoes of the victims. It seems that in Frankie's case his boots would have to have been taken off if his pants were (just going by how hard it is to take off a child's pants with shoes or boots on. Having said this, the killer must have taken at least some time otherwise I'd think his pants would have still been at his ankles.  I hate being graphic with these cases!

I'd think the killer did keep something from the incident though and could have tossed the rest in any dumpster or ditch anywhere.

Considering the time he was missing, I'd assume it was impossible to determine how long he had between abduction and death but I would think he was likely with the killer less than 24 hours.