Author Topic: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968  (Read 141758 times)

goNgo

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2011, 07:55:01 PM »
So much great new information!  Thanks to all.

Regarding your question, gibbons, about the route that the high school kids took, I had the impression that they took the same route based on the documents Chris posted.  The map shows a dotted line from the public school to the high school.  The author of the text document mentions that they were ont he way to the high school "about to climb the hill to the pathway".    Can someone confirm that this means that the individual was headed to the pathway themselves?I'm curious as to what the pathway was like as it approached the houses at the end of Valetta.  Was it open there?  Wooded?


wbri

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2011, 08:33:10 PM »
I have posted earlier tonight, it appears to have been lost somehow.

The Oakridge kids would have taken the same path as the elementary kids, and gone on past Westdale on the west side of the building to link up with a well known well worn path leading to the high school in a northerly direction.

As I recall the gravel pit, there was a fence between Hyde Park and the pit.  I do not recall any road down in to the pit from Hyde Park Road.  This area was quite unpopulated at the time, really the very outskirts of London.

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2011, 09:11:12 PM »
Thanks wbri, 071358, and everyone else joining in. A lot of detail coming in.

So, essentially, does it seem unlikely, then, given that there was traffic of both several Oakridge and Westdale students along the path every morning, that anyone could have been waiting for any length of time without being seen? Once the events of the morning were revealed, one would think that someone would've mentioned seeing anyone suspicious or unusual in that area before 9 am.

Though, if Frankie was running so late that he still hadn't reached the path by 9 am, there might be several minutes available to follow or confront him once everyone else had already passed by.

A terrible thought, but I'll throw it out there for discussion... perhaps a high school student or similar age would not look out of place on or near that path, for that reason? Certainly one old enough to drive, and who would know that path and the usual times and movements of traffic along it.

And, to further the thought, could it not be more likely that Jacqueline Dunleavy, a month prior, might accept a ride from someone closer to her age, who may even have been familiar to her from around the Byron area, rather than an older stranger?

I wonder if that was ever explored?

« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 09:34:47 PM by rkay »

Chris

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2011, 09:30:13 PM »
I am confused....I thought rkay supplied Chris with all the documentation.

See this post:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=717.msg60074#msg60074

071358

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2011, 10:51:32 AM »
The pathway emerged from dense brush about 50 feet from Valetta. It was quite open there. There was an entrance into the gravel pit about halfway between Riverside and the entrance to the first pathway. There was another entrance/exit off Riverside. These entry/exits were gradually sloped. The pit itself was quite deep. I don't recall a fence surrounding it. We would ride our bikes there in the summer and could enter any number of places without difficulty. That side of the road wasn't treed, it was very open. Hope this helps.

EJay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2011, 07:12:47 AM »
I would just like to say for those who may know anything about any of the missing or murdered victims in Ontario to contact the Police or even give a hint, we would also like to locate these missing people and have them where they should be for their love ones so they can let it rest, that would make you a much better person no matter what please give in and let it rest in peace for all the families and love ones.

gibbons

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 08:13:51 AM »
Just a couple things to consider:

1. Frankie's lunchbox was never found.  If he was forcibly abducted, Frankie would likely have fought back; assuming he would let go of his lunchbox during such a struggle, it is surprising that it was not found at the site where the struggle took place.  By extension - might this indicate that he was offered a ride by someone he knew?

2. During the "Project Angel" re-investigation, police were very interested (apparently persistently raising the question) to know whether Frankie had a small radio.  Someone who owned a hardware store - on Waterloo Street, or near Waterloo Street - insisted that they had seen Frankie that morning in their store.  Frankie was accompanied by a man and they were in the store to buy batteries for the radio. Again, this would suggest that Frankie knew the person that he was with on the morning that he went missing.   The question about the radio and hardware store came about when Project Angel was underway, and had not been an angle that the police pursued during the initial investigation.  The police clearly believed the person who provided them with the tip.

Can anyone remember whether there was a hardware store on Waterloo Street during the late '60s or into the early '70s?  I realize that the street is quite long, but perhaps people living along various stretches of it might recall.    As a specific item: was there a hardware store near Waterloo Street where it intersects with Oxford Street? 

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:28:14 AM by gibbons »

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2011, 09:34:04 PM »
That's extremely interesting info about the hardware store witness and raises many questions. Where to start...

I imagine that a young boy coming into a store during school hours might stand out a little in one's mind; even more so once Frankie's disappearance became known. As there were many apparent sightings of Frankie, at different locations, called into police at the time, I wonder what it was about this one that made the police want to follow up on it? I'd be interested to know if there was anything particularly remarkable-- Frankie or the man's demeanor or behaviour, for example-- that made this one gain focus. For the sake of discussion (and because the police seemed to lend it credence) let's presume it's accurate.

As far as the location, what that sighting does do is get Frankie in a direction on the way towards Thorndale. Certainly if the store was on or close to Oxford Street, then it's just a right turn and a straight line from the area he would have been picked up.

An idea of the timing-- closer to after 9 am or later-- would be useful too, just to get an idea of whether there was much time for Frankie to be elsewhere beforehand. Did he linger before getting to school, did he get into a running car that pulled over, or did he meet someone that brought him over to a car parked elsewhere?

I don't think the lack of a lunchbox found around the route to school necessarily indicates he didn't struggle, but for the sake of argument and this witness account, it's likely easier to get him into the car willingly than not. Certainly a driver, heading north on Hyde Park Road, would have great difficulty leaning over the passenger's side, or even getting out, to pull an unwilling child in and lock the doors. The driver would be taking a chance of the child getting away or another car or passerby happening upon the scene. It's simpler if Frankie chose to get in himself. 

And, given that he was a shy, quiet boy by all accounts, it stands to reason that if he got in the car by his own choice, he must have trusted the driver. So, perhaps he did know him... which is a bit concerning, if he wasn't chosen just out of chance opportunity, that possibly means he was being followed or stalked beforehand.

Now, the radio: Do we know if Frankie DID in fact have a radio then? I assume we're talking about a transistor radio, or something similarly small and portable. Certainly, that might be a very useful lure for a nine-year-old, especially in the less-technology-prevalent late-60's. Rather than something he already had on him, which seems unlikely to bring to school in a rush (unless we learn differently), perhaps a gift from the driver? Something to keep him occupied, and less concerned or aware that maybe where he was being taken was not where he was told.

Now, if Frankie WAS chosen at random, because he was alone and the driver just happened upon him, did the driver just happen to have a little radio with him to offer, or did he bring it purposely as possible bait? The fact that it needed batteries is interesting, because if one knows one is abducting a child, why take the chance of a) being recognized in a store or b) giving the child a chance to escape? It'd obviously be better to have that radio ready with batteries in it.

Either way, the taking of time with Frankie might help create an illusion of normalcy, put  the boy at ease, and allow his abductor to get to know him, before taking him to wherever his murder took place.  It definitely suggests a different scenario than a fast, violent abduction, much like more recently poor Tori Stafford was lured by her killers.

It occurs to me-- that perhaps what gives this hardware store report more apparent credence with police is information we're not given here. There must have been some kind of description of the man given, and perhaps that corroborates other information, or possibly conforms to suspects in other cases, that suggests this sighting has more validity than others at the time.

Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention, gibbons.












« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:37:01 PM by rkay »

wbri

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 09:51:34 PM »
I believe there could have been a hardware store on the southwest corner of Oxford and Waterloo Streets.  I recall that there was a business there, but then it became a florists in the seventies, a long running business that had a sister location in Bayfield ONtario.  I can't recall the name of the florist shop though.

Certainly a child out of school would have been noticed as unusual in those days.  I can understand why the police would want to follow this up.  London was not a large community then either, and business people were more well known and respected members of the town.

I wonder why someone intent on murder would allow themselves to be seen with the victim - unless the perpetrator at the time had not the specific intention of murder at the time of the hardware store visit.  If Frankie had a radio that didn't work, it could have been the leverage the perpetrator used to coerce Frankie to go farther than the school.

If the hardware store scenario is accurate, then it would follow (?) that the perpetrator was travelling northerly on Hyde Park when Frankie was picked  up.  Then the only way to get back to Westdale would have been to do a U turn or else go up to Oxford to turn back into the subdivision just past Oakridge High School.

Did the perpetrator offer Frankie a radio that needed batteries? Did he tell Frankie that he needed to get the batteries just before he would take the boy to Westdale?  If the route to Westdale had been right on the way to the hardware store, Frankie would have been perturbed by not having been dropped off.  His abductor wouldn't have brought him in to the store if he kenw the boy was upset and might blow his cover.  Instead, Frankie was behaving normally as a kid might in a store?

Just some thoughts -  this is the first I had heard of Frankie being seen alive.  Also, travelling eastward on Oxford would fall literally in line with the fact that Frankie's body was found east of London in the river.

rkay

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2011, 11:03:32 PM »
Looks like we were both thinking along the same lines, at about the same time, wbri!

I know the flower shop you mean-- it's Gammage Flowers, at 747 Waterloo. Their website has a history page which says about the location:

"The Gammage family sold the business in the 1970's to London businessman John McKerlie who in the early 1980's relocated the store to it's present location at the corner of Waterloo and Oxford streets. The present owner, Judite Holder, is only the fourth owner of Gammage Flowers, a flower shop that is rich in history and tradition.

The shop's present location is in a building with a long history in the City of London. Built in the 1880's,  this location once held a tavern that was frequented by the Black Donnellys. Later it was London's first Supertest Gas Station and over the years it has also housed a general store and The Drover Drug store. When you come into the store you can still see many of the original details including the original pine plank floors."


It doesn't say a hardware store, so I don't know if that would be the specific location we're looking for, but possibly. If I recall correctly, there is also a Pharma Plus drug store & post office across the street at the southeast corner. Perhaps that could also have been the location?


(EDIT: Looking at Google Maps reminds me that there is now a Shell gas station on the northwest corner and a vacant lot on the north east corner, which in the 90's when I lived in the area was a gas station and a Burdock's Cleaners. But before that, I don't know. I wonder how one would find that out?)

« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 11:08:47 PM by rkay »

Have faith

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2011, 05:19:23 AM »
There definitely was no hardware store at Waterloo and Oxford Street in 1968.

gibbons

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2011, 05:46:17 AM »
Hi Folks,

Thanks for the effort on trying to recall the Waterloo/Oxford intersection back in the late '60's.  The police were following up on a lead that involved a hardware store that might have been anywhere along Waterloo Street (ie. not limited to the Oxford Street - Waterloo intersection);  sorry if I unintentionally made it appear that the police were especially focused on the one specific corner.  The Waterloo-Oxford intersection seemed a good place to consider initially because there are, and have been, a number of businesses there over the years - and it is a location that would have other implications as well.   If anyone has any memories of hardware stores anywhere along Waterloo street, or close to it (including nearby streets such as Richmond or Adelaide) it would be useful to add this information to this thread.

Various reports about seeing Frankie, in the day(s) after his disappearance, can be seen within the LFP articles previously posted.   What made this one more credible than the others?  The witness had found it strange that the boy in the store was not at school (therefore the sighting was during school hours);additionally, Frankie's hat was not store bought and was very recognizable.   The police took the tip very seriously.  It was not likely that Frankie had a transistor radio with him when he left for school that day.  According to the witness providing the tip, the boy did not display any fear.

As a specific question:  does anyone recall if there was a hardware store near the Richmond/Oxford Street intersection.  There is a Home Hardware very close to this (just a bit southof Oxford Street on Richmond), but whether it or another hardware store may have existed circa 1969/70 would be relevant. 

Gibbons
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 10:12:40 AM by gibbons »

Have faith

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2011, 10:11:51 AM »
Re: Hardware store:   I wanted to confer with a couple of my siblings (we grew up in the Piccadilly/Waterloo St. area) before I posted about the rest of Waterloo Street and "close" to it.

I can confidently state that there were no hardware stores located on Waterloo Street from Horton Street,  north to the end of Waterloo. I don't know if there was one south of Horton, on the other side of the railway tracks.

I'm not sure how "close to Waterloo St." is defined, but I will list two stores a few blocks away from Waterloo St. which were operating in 1968.   Wallace Home Hardware at 744 Richmond St., close to Oxford ( 2 blocks west of Waterloo).  The other store was not a hardware store, but sold lamps, electrical supplies, extension cords etc...Hale Electric, Colborne St., just south of the tracks on Pall Mall St. It was torn down some years ago.

There were several variety stores along Colborne St., which runs parallel to Waterloo St.  Most of the current variety stores were operating in 1968.  I don't recall that any of them had a "hardware section" per se.  The same applies to other neighbouring variety stores.

If there is any further description of the "hardware store" or its location, I will gladly take a second look.

Have Faith


gibbons

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2011, 10:21:30 AM »
Hello Have Faith,

By strange coincidence, I think I amended my previous post about one second before you added your post (wow!).  In case you didn't notice that it was amended - take a quick peak - you must be psychic!  Thanks very much for taking the time to find out more about Waterloo Street.  It is wonderful to be able to tap into such a wealth of memories of the area! 

The area of interest can in fact include Adelaide and Richmond Street (see amended post)...and you have actually answered my question about Wallace Hardware and whether it existed back circa 1969.  Thanks very much for the information! 

Gibbons


Have faith

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Re: Frankie Jensen - London, ON - Murdered - 1968
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2011, 02:26:54 PM »
Thanks Gibbons for pointing out your amendment, as it wasn't there when I began typing my post.

Taking a look at Richmond and Adelaide streets, and some in between,  produced two locations of interest for circa 1969.
Coops Buildall, formerly at 620 Adelaide St. N (at Central Ave.) Today it is TRAD'S Furniture.
Plaza Home Hardware, 1080 Adelaide St. N. (at Regent St., located in the strip plaza)

There are two locations of which we are not sure of their status circa 1969.  A building at the NE corner of Piccadilly and William Streets and a building in a row of stores on the NW corner of Richmond and Broughdale Streets.

FYI: The Plaza Home Hardware store was owned by Robert Bruce Stapylton's step-father. Bruce's 1969 unsolved murder was included in Project Angel.

With regards to the witness at the hardware store who saw Frankie with a man, I am curious as to how his description of Frankie's hat convinced LE that it was a credible claim. The London Free Press posted a picture of Frankie wearing what looks like a hand knitted hat.  It resembles the various LFP descriptions which stated it was a black wool toque, with a Norwegian, white and green star design. Is this not the hat Frankie was wearing the day he disappeared?  I'll assume that there was another detail(s) that wasn't published and was noted by the witness.


Have Faith
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 02:34:37 PM by Have faith »