Author Topic: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?  (Read 22552 times)

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 04:58:13 AM »
Fo sure, the nutbars on every side of the debate are going to have a field day over the next while. I hope some spiked eggnog will slow them down.

I remember reading, in the wake of Virginia Tech, how there were certain proponents of school staff carrying firearms. The thought was that one armed staff member could have put a halt to the slaughter. I suppose it is a fair point, but I do not see a viable answer to a firearms problem being MORE firearms. That'd be like trying to lose weight by eating Big Macs. My line of thinking is that you can't accidentally shoot a student, or yourself, if you are not armed to begin with.

I do not know what the answer is. I do know that we are not going to get closer to it by listening to every talking head on each side of the debate(s).

'Mericans views on Obama border on utter lunacy at times and I wonder why my stock in Alcan hasn't gone through the roof what with all of the conspiracy theories. One of my fave graphics after the recent election was about how the disgruntled bunch were going to move to Canada because they didn't like healthcare, gay marriage, etc. And Canada called to laugh in their ear.

Compared to the US, Canada IS a socialist state - but they have been using the word socialist to take a leap to communist for years, nothing new there.

Properly designed and implemented gun control measures CAN work. I have several friends who do a lot of shooting in the UK and have gotten a good handle on the process. It makes sense, at least to me, and seems very devoid of red tape. The issue is that some of our neighbours down south are not gong to like ANY measures at all. They will balk at the mere suggestion...because it impinges on some amendment to some bill of rights that was written oh like over 200 frigging years ago! Jesus, to think someone might want to update the rules given that the land has been dramatically transformed over two centuries. That's where it loses me.

Nish

jobo

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 05:19:37 AM »
I don't have an answer either, because there is no way to foretell when a lunatic is going to let loose, unless they previously told someone about their plans.
I don't think giving Teachers a gun is the answer (increases odds of accidental shootings).  Perhaps roaming Police to make random visits to each school more often may deter a shooter.
Sounds to me that Sandy Hook school did take security measures....but the shooter blasted out a window....only way to stop that would be bullet proof glass everywhere in the schools.  Not feasible.

Tighter gun control might help.  If it is true that Lanza tried a few days before the shootings to purchase a gun, should authorities have been notified by the gun sellor?  Maybe look into the Lanza kid?  Is that odd in America?  A 20 year old trying to buy a gun?  I don't know.
Guns for hunting are one thing, assault weapons are another, they should NOT be allowed in average everyday homes. 

As far as I can determine, the only people using guns in America are the bad guys.....it's not like Victims are whipping out their guns in protection of themselves...(I am thinking of the Theatre shootings, for an example.)   So, why do Americans want guns?

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 06:24:05 AM »
In the interest of fairness and transparency: http://www.pseudology.org/Crim/GunFacts5_1.pdf

Edited to add the 2012 version: http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

I've said from the start that I am not an advocate for keeping gun control measures loose. I am also not an advocate for unilaterally and unconditionally, or in an ambulatory fashion, tightening them up. I have owned firearms. I sometimes wish it was easier to own one again due to the fact that I am often in the woods alone. I do not agree with a person's "right" to bear arms. I think that's a silly and antiquated notion...like some other things that have been repealed over the course of history. But I also do not like infringing on decent law abiding citiczens for the sake of one or two nut jobs. Anyway, I've beaten that to death.

I provided the link for people's own educational pleasure. Because it's being educated that will see the best solution to these problems.

Nish

capeheart

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 06:51:42 PM »
Well we all wonder, at least I do, why do they need all of these automatic weapons, very scary to think they can get in the hands of the wrong people. It is the same old story, they keep telling owners to lock their guns up in a safe place, but there is always a way to get them, no matter how safe they are locked up. If a person wants the gun, if they know where it is, they will break the locks to get at them. I know when I was growing up, my father wouldn't allow a gun in the house. I can only remember seeing one rifle and it was not his, it was my nephew's and he used it for hunting. I saw that gun once and I never saw it anymore. Dad wouldn't allow him to have it around. Because there were a lot of young people around then, at our house and the neighbours. My family were not hunters really, they fished and things like that, but were not gun happy. And I'm really glad about that, because I'm terrified of guns, don't want to be around them at all.  :o :o :o :o

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 08:13:01 PM »
My dad kept rifles all the time and it was commonplace to see a gun on a specified hook right outside the house. We farmed pretty well at the end of civilization where cougar, wolves and coyotes were also a common occurrence. Our animals grazed at the worst possible location for predators so a gun needed to be handy.
I was about 8 when I decided to see how the gun worked and it was the last time I ever touched a gun. Not sure it was loaded, I aimed at a chicken and pulled the trigger and killed the chicken ... scared the heck out of me. For me it was horrific b/c the chickens were my pals. I didn't even aim properly and didn't think that could even happen without proper aim. I wish I was that good at baseball. Guns still repel me, the thought of even handling one. 
Some people here who raise sheep and have a large predator occurrence, keep a pack of greyhounds trained for predator control and it works for them. A bullet can travel a long way and now that settlements in the country are closer together, the gun is not a solution. In the cities, there is no place for a gun since a person defending himself/herself can be charged. 

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 10:24:58 AM »
While the battle of gun control vs specific gun control takes over many talk shows, little is being said about the psyche side of the coin. One thing noted was one lawmaker saying "now" things have to change. That has been said before and what changed?

capeheart

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 12:50:00 PM »
SAP, I agree, I don't think anything will change. Possibly the terrible incident that happened last Friday, that broke everybody's hearts, will make a noise for a while about safe guarding the kids in school, but there is a lot of doubt in my mind. Because there are so many weapons out there, it's like shutting the barn door after the horse gets out. And there should be very strict laws made for anyone causing trouble at any school or destroying any of the buses that carry the kids to school. Long prison terms for anyone interfering in the damage to any of the school vehicles at any time. Just after this incident, they broke windows in the school bus in the Boston area with pellet guns, and this was while the children were on the bus. There was broken glass and it sure scared the kids. The police are now driving the school bus today. Severe penalites have to be handed down, no matter what age for this kind of activity.  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 08:32:52 PM »

Chris

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:39 PM »
In 2008 the supreme court ruled Washington DC's hand gun ban was unconstitutional. The conventional wisdom was that gun violence, which was out of control, was going to get worse.

In reality, gun crime has seen a dramatic drop since.

Whatever they decide to do about automatic weapons, the argument over concealed hundguns is pretty much proven now to reduce murders.


D.C.: More Legal Guns, Far Fewer Murders, Despite - Reason Online
http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/11/dc-more-legal-guns-far-fewer-murders-des
Quote
"More handguns in the District of Columbia will only lead to more handgun violence," D.C's then-Mayor Adrian Fenty said after the Supreme Court's 2008 ruling in the Heller case, a ruling that overthrew the district's handgun ban.


Quote
The District is poised to finish the year with fewer than 100 murders for the first time since 1963


Quote
The "murder capital" of the United States two decades ago, the District has had 79 murders so far this year, according to police records. The annual number has been declining steadily since 2008...

Edmonton is about the same size and it had 47 murders. But still a far cry from 400+ DC used to have before the handgun ban.

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2012, 11:44:16 AM »
I just do not get how the answer to gun violence is MORE guns.

That's like telling some fat sack to start a diet by eating only at McDonald's.

*facepalm*

BOTH sides of the debate are so devoid of common sense it's hardly worth engaging in debate because no debate will ever be rational.

Nish

D1

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2012, 01:50:58 PM »
I think the end result will offend one side or the other no matter how control is structured or presented. It may have to be implimented incrementally but it seems the time has come. Talking and debating is likely to be replaced by you voted for me trust me. Democracy rules..  well we will see how that goes. ..  jmo

And of course there is always some anomaly or exception to the rule to prove any point.. The extremes will push the agenda one way or the other..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916080/ns/health-fitness/t/woman-says-mcdonalds-diet-took-weight/#.UNdd11KD-Jo

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2012, 12:20:05 PM »
Was that "democracy rules" tongue in cheek? Because if it was then I think you're off base.

As far as answering the McDonald's diet comment...ask any Doctor in the world, straight off the cuff, and see what they say. Exceptions are almost always newsworthy but do nothing to diminish the fact that you will most probably die from the inside out if you're stupid enough to try something like this. Or am I the only one who watched Morgan Spurlock do the same damned thing about ten years ago?

Interesting quote I saw just today: "People have yet to notice that while Canadians watch movies and play violent video games they are not yet shooting one another"

I have long posited that the issue(s) are far, far deeper than simple control measures. Perhaps that little bit of food for thought might be bang on?

Nish

D1

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2012, 03:06:37 PM »
Democracy rules, (not tongue in cheek) Joe Biden the US vice pres is a well known vocal long time advocate of gun control, recently re-elected. The MacDonalds example, how any extreme view can be wrapped up to appear palatable. Like the suggestion teachers should be armed. What is behind the U.S. statistics that do not play out the same elsewhere in the world? Are there deeper issues underlying the need for gun control?  I posted this link to the drugs being used by many of those involved in the school shootings on the Connecticut page. Not sure what to make of that connection.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6525.msg98210#msg98210
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 01:52:08 PM by D1 »

jellybean

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2012, 07:25:58 PM »
I will never understand Americans when it comes to their right to carry weapons.  Recently those Americans, including Senators  against gun control,  have stated that England has a greater homicide rate by use of guns,  than the US?  How desperate and ignorant these people are.  All they had to do was to use google to come up with a few facts.  However, these people are betting that most of us won't!
Since gun ownership is a right of passage for every American to carry one, they would accept that statement from authorities and feel justified in having one.

Here is the most recent data by country, as of 2007. And here are the stats England vs USA.


England and Wales (note both) Homicide firearm per 100,000 pop.= 0.07
United States -----------------Homicide firearm per 100,000 pop. = 2.97

and Canada? 0.51

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 08:11:22 PM by jellybean »

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2012, 07:59:51 AM »
Many people are betting you won't use google, JB. But there are also quite a few that hope you do, and also hope you do as many others - misinterpret facts. Not saying you have, just saying that in a protracted debate such as this there will be disinformation and misinformation campaigns on both sides. This is why I so heartily endorse that fence I sit upon.

BTW, many former NRA supporting senators have been switching sides of late...I am sure much of that remains quiet.

For a good look at just how silly stupid and misaligned some people within the media can be, take a look at this load of drivel: http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/326647-surette-time-to-rattle-the-harper-conservatives-over-guns Even ardent supporters of gun control measures have to see the wrongs here. This is scandalous. But as a commenter so aptly pointed out: "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed." Mark Twain.

Grain(s) of salt. Perhaps buckets.

Nish