Author Topic: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?  (Read 22163 times)

debbiec

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The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« on: December 14, 2012, 12:01:43 PM »
This topic has been started in light of the recent school shooting and the public outcry that has followed. 

Please post comments pertaining to gun control on this thread.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 11:19:18 AM by debbiec »

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 09:33:51 AM »
Several years ago some southern states were giving away guns for people who would open a bank account with them. I found that rather shocking. I wondered how many of those came back in disguise and armed. Or how many people were victimized by the guns getting into the wrong hands.

RubyRose

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 11:58:49 AM »
I will not be too popular for stating this view but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not so sure that not having easy access to guns would make a great deal of difference in whether many of these types of tragedies could actually be prevented.  With all of the information available nowadays, online and elsewhere, if someone is thoroughly determined to carry out an act such as this, he or she would simply find another means of doing it and would probably succeed.

I feel sincere sympathy for the victims and their families, and, yes, I do include the boy's family, as well.

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:07:01 PM »
I think it's a fair statement, Ruby. Much the same as the graphics depicting differing levels of gun violence by country are fair (even if there is no "West Germany"). Same still as the statement attributed to, but not confirmed written by, Morgan Freeman saying that mass media coverage of these heinous acts can be to blame as well. They're all fair statements.

Anyone see the sickening display by Westboro Baptist Church? Call me a hypocrite, but when I found out that hackers took over some of their Twitter accounts and vowed to make life very difficult on them - I smiled. Gun control doesn't fuel my outrage bus today - WBC does.

Nish

capeheart

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 12:08:57 PM »
Maybe guns are okay to have, but if you do have them and you have children, they should never ever be around where they are. When it comes down to  who do you care about, the children or the guns, are you going to take the guns??? The right to bear arms is a damned scary thing. I mean people do things in anger and if they have a gun, that is the more likely that they will use it. Look at the cases of domestic violence, people wiping out their family with a gun. In our country, it is against the law to carry a concealed weapon and that means a knife. So we're doing pretty good, I'd say. Now it does make a difference and especially for automatic weapons. Why does anyone need an automatic weapon, maybe if you're going to war you would need it. But we are talking about love and caring and loving our neighbours, so why do we all need guns???? It will get worse unless something is done about the automatic weapons. There will always be crazy people and people looking for attention and being in the news, I honestly believe that. And the media does not help a lot. The more it's on the news, the more sickos come out of the woodwork. But I would say to anyone who owns guns and has someone in their home or even a relative to take action and put weapons in a safe place and not even say they have them. This was a tragedy, but a mentally ill person committed this crime. But he also had access given to him by a mentally ill person also. His mother had to have mental issues to have this young man have access to any weapons, it did not have to happen. Now we just send out thoughts and prayers and weep with those who are left and pray that the powers that be, do something to stop the violence.

I would also like to add that I just heard on the news today, because congress is going to be making rulings regarding weapons control in the new year, people are rushing to gun shops to get the guns that won't be available. So what has changed, and I would guess that many of these people have little children in their own home. The man upstairs is trying to give a message, but nobody is listening. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:12:02 PM by capeheart »

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 03:50:27 AM »
There is talk of gun control and apparently the stores have been sold out since people are stockpiling before the laws change.

Nish

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 06:22:53 AM »
I saw a graphic yesterday (i've been enduring airport hell or I'd post links) which indicates that mass shootings have actually gone down in the US over the last 30 odd years.

Either way, I do think there will be a large measure of knee jerk reaction over this:
-proponents of gun control having a field day.
-opponents of gun control saying that this is status quo (in and of itself a knee jerk and stupid reaction)
-legislators saying, "enough is enough" and putting measures in place that may or may not work.
-law enforcement being extra careful
-police state schools

Remember how many orange/green/fuchsia alerts were plastered across CNN in the wake of 9/11? Same thing is going to happen here. That poor prick in Ontario that was arrested for his kid drawing him with a gun? He got off lucky compared to how folks will react now. Beyond the obvious, this is the largest tragedy that comes out of something like this. And media, as the (as it turns out falsely) attributed article to Morgan Freeman says, will grab this and RUN LIKE HELL. This sells. Period.

My stance on the American gun control debate:
The right to bear arms was put into effect in a much different place and time, get over it. You do not need an assault rifle to hunt geese. Your state does not need a militia. Shouting, over and over, and over that it is your right is silly, childish, and does nothing to promote your stance. Yet you continue to shout, scream and holler...because you have no other rational line of thinking to back up what you say.

The above said, you can't legislate nutjobs out of existence. You can't ever guarantee that someone isn't going to go ape with legal firearms (is that not the case here? Because if it is then many of the arguments for MORE gun control are moot). And I do not wish to see sportsman and recreational shooters criminalized like the Liberals did up here (and the token prodigal Liberal son, Saint Justin, is even on record as saying the gun registry did not work) Of course, there is a marked difference between recreational shooting with a .410 or a .22 and using a fricking Uzi.

Personally, I'd like to see more common sense applied, but Voltaire was correct in stating that it is sometimes not so common...hence the need for someone to grab folks by the short and curlies and say, "enough".

Evil's been having a competition in the US for years. Think of names like McVeigh - no gun control in the world was preventing that. Food for thought, eh?

Nish

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 11:35:05 AM »
I simply agree that more gun control is not the answer. Our America (Canada/USA) is extremely lacking in mental facilities and psyche care. Here mental facilities are downsizing, as we've seen in Ab, and in USA some have completely shut down as I gathered from Dr. Drew. With all the advancements in medicine, proper mental care is still in the dark ages when one listens to the many callers who are dealing with violent family members who have mental illness and who have been discharged from mental facilities.
In the case of Lanza's, people turned a blind eye until it was too late and now are coming up with stories how strange they were, etc etc. I wonder how much would have been done even if people had reported both the Lanza's to police at the time. With no priors in violence ... probably not much. The Lanza's are victims too. What idiot sold assault rifles to Mrs. Lanza? 

Chris

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 01:57:51 PM »
I agree that gun control won't work.

1) It assumes gun crimes will go down... they don't
2) assumes criminals won't get guns... they will.
3) Assumes if law abiding citizens give up guns, criminals and mentally ill people will feel touched by that and give them up to.... they won't


I know a few guys back in Texas at the gun club I was last month... the one thing that scared the hell out of my was this simple fact that will dwarf the gun debate:

Evil minds are going to discover a backpack bomb will cause way more mayham and murder, and with advances in technology, mobile bombs are a certainty.

Chris

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 02:02:30 PM »

I agree with SAP about mental care.

jobo

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 02:31:52 PM »
I agree with the above two posts, SAP's and Chris's.

First of all, just because the Lanza boy was strange, there was no way to know what he had planned to do unless he said so.  That too is a problem, some people with the mental issues do not see their problem, do not open up and admit their thinking is sick. They too, are innocent if they have not done anything wrong.  Sounds to me many have become victims of the mental health system. 

In my crazy way of thinking, I hope Lanza killed his Mom to spare her the pain of what he did.  He definitely planned what he was doing, but who in the world could foresee this?   No one is a mind reader.

Which brings me to the guns.  Okay if America wants the right to bear arms.  But I wonder why they want that right. 
How many people break into houses using guns?  And how many Victims of the break-ins pull out their gun?  I bet not that many.
And.....are you prepared to kill someone for taking your stuff?  Not me.

Is it for peace of mind knowing you have a gun to protect yourself?  I am not sure I have heard of too many Victims that saved themselves with their gun....so, why guns? 
Maybe as a deterrent, but I am not so sure every one is walking around with their "piece" visible.  I heard that many years ago, the gas station owners down south (Georgia and such) carry a gun in a holster, not sure if they still are.
To me, guns are for hunting and Law Enforcement.  And, in the States where they seem to want that right to bear arms....they need to make sure they keep them under lock and key, and not together with the ammo.....no one but the owner should be able to unlock them.
 Geesh, yesterday, there was a news story where an 11 yr old took a gun to school to protect himself and his classmates....how the hell did he get it??
I agree that evil minds will find a way to create pain and havoc....whether there is controls or not.  I also think that assault rifles do not belong in homes.

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 03:00:32 PM »
I totally agree with you all. Also if there had been no guns available to Adam, it would have been real easy for him to manufacture a bomb ... the recipes are available on the Net.
Why did Adam kill his mother first? On the Dr. Drew programn it was clarified that Mrs. Lanza  had been diagnosed with MS and that she was trying to get Adam interested in secondary schooling so he could have a better future when she was incapacitated. Sending Adam back to school was probably the stressor that made him snap, if he was outcast by most in his high school years. imho anyway.

D1

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 03:21:11 PM »
Gun control like many other issues need not be an all or nothing thing that splits and divides. There are varying degrees of control that could be applied that should be satisfactory to most everyone. Maybe that violates the right for everyone to bare arms but big deal, not everyone should be allowed and as stated there is a big difference between hunting equipment and military assault style weapons.

If gun control was more viewed as a series of gates put in place and designed to catch the crazies on route to and before they moved onto obtaining bigger more powerful devices, the legit gun owners may be more comfortable and more onside. It helps their cause too.

The truly diabolical will always find a way, but simple and crazy may be caught. Its a start and by all indication it will begin anyway. America may as well join in to ensure the gates are structured appropriately and fairly. The blanket policy, right to bare arms has run its course. imo

SAP

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 04:19:33 PM »
Your suggestion D1, would probably be an ideal one for a calm America. America isn't calm though. Take all those voters who didn't want Obama in power ... many of them are heavvvvyyyy into conspiracy theories and I found some of them very difficult to talk to b/c of it. They were and are so sure Obama wants to destroy us all b/c of his background and believe he is in cahoots with the late Osama b. L. Try and persuade them they don't need assault rifles. I've never seen anything like it, and they have quite the following. They think Canada is a Socialist state. To some of them we are the enemy too.

D1

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Re: The Gun Control Issue - Opinions?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 06:43:04 PM »
Ohh I'm pretty sure that the radical elements at both ends of the spectrum will be in control of this debate for the near future. Calling for controls may actually incite further violence. Eventually I can't see any way around addressing it somehow even though it may not play out pretty. The control side has been watching for an incident to hang their hat on for some time and the Connecticut atrocity is made to order. The President is fully on board and comes armed with a recent electoral mandate.. Can't argue with democracy, even in the US.

added- Just saw a rubuttal from the otherside saying that the solution is to arm the teachers. And they were serious.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 07:38:51 PM by D1 »