Author Topic: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1  (Read 399002 times)

lostlinganer

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1020 on: January 08, 2014, 08:58:45 AM »
from a thread started by Lt. nypd about the Blind River (Ontario unsolved) Murder
Quote
Sap... and nypd:  what strikes me about the Oba Chandler guy is the pictures on murderpedia link.  There is certainly a lot to read about Oba; but every case I read connected to him, I  kept thinking of Kelly Cook ... and I will carry the following over to Kelly's thread (with accompanying pics)  coincidence? maybe! but worth documenting for comparison/consideration 

It surely would be interesting to know exactly where Oba Chandler was during those weeks of the Kelly Cook luring/disappearance.

-this guy seemed to get half his thrill out of planning... and luring.
-this guy used ropes to tie his victims
-this guy used concrete blocks and a boat to dispose of his victims
-this guy had the same personality as Kelly Cook perp.
-this guy had the same weathered face and poxy complexion
-this guy was the right age
-this guy could have very well been in any Canadian town just north of US border at times.

Here are some pics of Oba Chandler from http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c1/chandler-oba-photos-2.htm
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 12:45:41 PM by lostlinganer »

SAP

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1021 on: January 08, 2014, 11:46:01 AM »
It could be entirely possible. The MO is striking. So many others have crossed the borders to kill here; their urges have no boundaries. Is it possible to trace his whereabouts for 1981?

lostlinganer

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1022 on: January 08, 2014, 12:38:06 PM »
back when Chandler killed the woman and her daughters, he actually tied their hands (and I think feet), then tied the cinder blocks to their necks ... and actually threw each into the water still alive.  One girl had actually managed to get one hand free before drowning.... autopsy revealed each girls death was a combination of drowning and strangulation as a result of being put in the water still alive, but weighted down by blocks tied around the neck. 

More of what I read on Chandler reveals he used the phone plenty and made notes ... which ultimately led to his conviction.  He was distinctly bold and over confident always... and "cocky" even in court.... I'm throwing in a few court pics here ... maybe somebody still around who witnessed the suspect in Kelly's case, might somehow end up seeing these and "have a light go on".... stranger miracles have happened in such cases!  ...and this guy has one of those unforgettable demeanors that remains the same even after one grows older.  Strange how we can carry certain outward expressions that remain on our faces over time .... that never change, even with age. 

So until we find out where this guy was (if in Canada, Ohio, Caroline.. wherever ) at the time of Kelly abduction, these few pictures might ring a bell to some reader.  This guy sure did get around... and he kept notes and asked a lot of questions.... who knows?...maybe Standard police might even have a witness statement buried somewhere about Kelly's abductor boldly asking questions and making notes.  There are even copies/pictures of Chandler's writing on here, ..and he signed things often as "Obie"... maybe he stayed in a motel or work camp in Alberta.  He worked mainly (according to most accounts) with aluminum - buildings etc.  ... that  might also ring a bell to people if such workers or companies had big need for such at the time of Kelly's disappearance/murder.    Keep in mind that the "older Chandler" pics have thinning hair and he is stalkier... but notice the exact same "hairline and leftpart" as in original artist sketch of the Kelly Cook suspect.

I've done further extensive reading and found that Chandler used alias James Thomas Wright ..began living with an unidentified woman in Orlando ..after escaping a medium security work detal at Doctor's Inlet Road Prison in Clay County.  In 1983, he was arrested on a federal counter counterfeiting charge and sent to a federal prison in Texas..

He used alias/es Jimmy Wright Jr. and Oba Leiby.... He has also used at least one fake birth date and fake Social Security number that appears to belong to someone in Auburn, New York.

Chandler had been in prison in Florida .... shady stuff about that imo. because he ended up a fugitive from Florida... at large (God knows where!)during 1981...... but oddly, he was suppose to be doing some sort of "snitching" to US customs at that time..???   http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19921003&id=FX8UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SQMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6386,491918

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:30:38 PM by lostlinganer »

mom73

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1023 on: February 25, 2014, 11:03:00 PM »
Have read some of these posts. 
While driving over Chin Bridge last week (it was dark and creepy), I was thinking about this case, I was about 7 so I remember hearing about it, as it scared many people in this area. The abductor could have been from anywhere around here. Grassy lake, (there is a turn off, its a back road), Stirling, Raymond (turn off after the bridge), Warner, Milk River, Coutts or even the US. Montana is only 15 min away from Milk River and back in those days I'm assuming that it was much easier to cross the border as many people 10-20 yrs older than I am would head down to SweetGrass Montana to party(drink).
Has anyone checked into US criminals from that time period?


mom73

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1024 on: February 25, 2014, 11:19:28 PM »
I think in the above photo, if this guy put on a little smirk, or even a cordial smile (you know... like when you are talking to someone you just met or someone you are asking a question of)... he is a dead ringer.

 :)  and here's a thought:  How many camping grounds and or cabin facilities would have been renting out at that time of year?  and what about motels?  I wonder (but doubt) if the police visited all the possible "stay over" facilicies in that two week time frame.  I certainly would have... let's say within a radius of 40 or 50 miles. ...something like that  :-\

There is a camping spot on the left hand side of the bridge (going towards Warner) and on the right a group camping spot!! The campground is also where the boats dock! Chin is very popular place for people to go camping and fishing from April through to September!!

There is also Writing on Stone outside of Milk River, as well as Gold Springs (I think this is fairly new though?).

mom73

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1025 on: February 26, 2014, 12:44:40 AM »
Not sure if this has been put on here...

The family was from Standard and also farmed near Bow Island and Milk River.
One of the four children is named William. Assuming that he was born in about 1950 then he would have been in his late 20's or early 30's in 1981.
The father died in 1981 as well, same year as Kelly Cook.


**A security warning appeared when I attempted to open this link, therefore it has been removed.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 01:50:07 AM by debbiec »

mom73

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1026 on: February 26, 2014, 08:04:22 PM »
If you Google, Otto Christensen family + Standard Alberta the link is under Hermis...(O D Christensen Fonds...Govt of Alberta).
I wont repost the link, though it worked for me again, so not sure why it showed a security risk  ???

leonagleant

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1027 on: February 26, 2014, 10:52:35 PM »
And why are we googling this man?

mom73

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1028 on: February 26, 2014, 11:36:32 PM »
Sorry had posted a link but there was something wrong with the link.
It had a bill Christensen living in Standard...and the family was familiar with Grassy lake and milk river area as well...Chin is on the way out to Milk River...Grassy lake is close by as well. Sorry just grasping at straws.
As I stated earlier...was driving over the bridge last week and thought about this case. My apologies.

Have faith

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1029 on: March 14, 2014, 08:46:07 PM »

I just happened to see this FBI poster of a suspect in the abduction of a 10 year old girl in Cleveland, Ohio in 1989, eight years after Kelly was abducted (link below).  What caught my attention is that this stranger called the girl at home and used a ruse to get her to meet him.  He had done enough research to know details about her Mom and that she had a brother.  He called her 2 weeks before he got her to meet him at a shopping mall.  His planning is very similar to Kelly's killer.  Different MO, Amy Mihaljevic was stabbed and suffered head trauma.  The FBI are reviving her case.

FWIW, I think their composites (taken 8 years apart) look somewhat similar, especially the mouth.  It's a long shot but I felt compelled to post it.

His description is quite similar to the man who picked up Kelly.
-30-40 years old
-5'9 to 5'10 ft. tall
-medium build
-dark hair (and I see dark eyebrows)
-hair possibly curly
-possibly wearing round glasses
-possibly wearing a light jacket

Kelly's suspect:
-30-40 years old
-5'10
-160 lbs.
-medium to heavy build
-short dark hair and eyebrows
-sun glasses often propped on his head
-wearing windbreaker

http://crimefeed.com/2014/03/fbi-offers-25000-reward-information-leading-case-involving-child-murdered

 

I can't seem to copy Kelly's suspect's picture for comparison.



lostlinganer

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1030 on: March 15, 2014, 09:02:46 PM »
for comparison...

D1

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 04:00:33 PM by D1 »

AaronP

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1032 on: March 16, 2014, 04:34:46 PM »
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=692.msg108526#msg108526


Keep in mind that the composite sketch was carefully developed. As per news reports, the RCMP hypnotized the trucker and service station owner who overheard parts of the phone conversation in an attempt to come up with as good a description as possible. Having said that, eyewitness accounts and even hypnosis are certainly not 100% foolproof. But as of right now, it's the only official description that's out there. I would not waste time attempting to pin this crime on a black man or a woman, for example, as that seems almost impossible given what people observed of the suspect - details as obvious as those are unlikely to escape observation and reporting. But the description is open-ended enough to allow for the inclusion of more than just a minor range of potential suspects. Originally in 1981, the culprit was described as being in his 40s. Nowadays, he is described as being from 30 to 45 - most likely in case the man appeared older to some people than he actually was (in the Scarborough rapes investigation in Toronto, the culprit was described as being between 18 and 22, and Paul Bernardo was 25 when the composite sketch was made of him - he looked a bit younger than his years). In a published Calgary Herald article in 2005, RCMP said the crime was likely planned over a two-month period. They also alluded to the suspect probably living in the area at the time, which adds credence to postings made earlier by a Standard resident who said that the rumor around Standard has always been that the RCMP pretty much know who most likely did it, but in the absence of sufficient evidence, were unable to charge him.

D1

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1033 on: March 16, 2014, 05:27:34 PM »
We have been all over this too many times now to continue on the same path. Hynotising witnesses has been discredited after the Milgaard case.

Cherry picking which witnesses to use for the composite and diregarding others, (the funeral home incident) keeps it as is. There are other avenues to pursue.  The Donna Awcock example.. Weighing of the ingredients  that go into a composite from multiple witnesses can yield differing results. A newly defined composite may provide a break in Donna's long cold case.
 Reply #97
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=692.msg108526#msg108526

As far as the claim,

Quote
They also alluded to the suspect probably living in the area at the time, which adds credence to postings made earlier by a Standard resident who said that the rumor around Standard has always been that the RCMP pretty much know who most likely did it, but in the absence of sufficient evidence, were unable to charge him.

There may be some truth to that ... This sounds like an exact carbon copy of what you will find in the Denise Lapierre murder investigation. That case closed and the Police subject to a court ordered gag order. No resolution either.  As this will be too if nothing changes imo..

Quote
All of the investigations of murders involving Terry Arnold appear to have been closed. The following article refers to a murder in Calgary. The victim was found virtually on Arnold's doorstep. There was DNA. The victims uncle was a ranking Calgary Police officer. How did Arnold get away with this one?

This article has been removed from the original interenet location and now can't be found anywhere else..

copied from original news report.

Calgary Murder Case Closed In Wake Of Suspect's Suicide
Mar, 29 2005 - 4:00 PM

Police are confident a man who committed suicide in victoria was the killer of a Calgary woman in 1987.
Homocide Staff Sergeant Barry Cochran says police have been confident since 1997 that Terry Arnold killed Denise Lapierre.    
But police lacked that last bit of evidence to put the case over the top and result in a conviction in court.
"We only have one opportunity to charge somebody in relation to any serious crime. We like to be able to have all the information put forward to support our charge. Certainly don't want to go in their with a weak case, cause it won't last through the judicial process."
Cochran says police always believed one day they would arrest, charge and prosecute Terry Arnold for the murder of 17-year-old Denise Lapierre.
Arnold left a suicide note - but Victoria, B.C. police say he did not confess anything.
Detective Clark Russell says the 42-year-old Arnold has been identified by fingerprints, after his body was found in a Victoria apartment.
He died of an apparent drug overdose, leaving a three page suicide note that did not include a confession.
However the note did say the media had been harassing him.
The detective says Arnold was facing a trial on child pornography charges in June, and was arrested in February for breaching his bail conditions.
At that time his picture and name were released by Victoria police.
Arnold, who is a convicted sex offender, was the prime suspect in the 1981 murder of Barbara Stoppel.
Thomas Sophonow, who was originally found guilty in Stoppel's murder, had said he hoped Arnold would have been brought to trial for the murder.


They had dna from Denise's body and from Arnold, yet this is how it ends...  Obviously unusual and fishy.. How far it goes?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:41:04 PM by D1 »

D1

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Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
« Reply #1034 on: March 16, 2014, 10:53:39 PM »
In the Donna Awcock murder investigation they had a composite sketch of a poi running for many years. No one seemed to match. It was only after the sketch was re examined and revised that a poi was actually identified. A composite sketch is important but trying to match a suspect to a sketch that is skewed can be an obstruction.

The sketch of Kelly's murder suspect may not be quite right. Seeking matches to the current sketch has not paid off to date and may not ever. Vetting every possible suspect by similarity to the current sketch and its descriptors is all it may take for Kelly's case to remain unsolved forever. The age descriptors of the poi provided by hypnosis witnesses conflicts with statements provided by funeral home witnesses. A choice was made by someone in LE at the time as to age of poi. Do you take the hypnosis witness statements or those of the funeral home employees? We saw what happened in the Milgaard case when hypnosis was employed on witnesses. It all went wrong from there.

You don't blend the age descriptors together in a situation as Kelly's when they originate from such widely divergent sources. imo... You reevaluate.  They conflict too widely in age determinations to reconcile. Testimony from hypnosis witnesses has been accepted over that of sober minded employees alert to the poi sketch faced with a potential suspect in the flesh. Who made the decision to disregard their testimony over the other begs questioning.

This sketch and its descriptors should be revisited as was done for Donna Awcock.. imo... Then you may hear the bell ring. We can only hope...


« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 11:05:26 PM by D1 »