Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 482092 times)

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1590 on: October 24, 2016, 04:13:29 PM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None. 

Nish

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1591 on: October 24, 2016, 04:51:43 PM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.

Nish

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1592 on: October 24, 2016, 05:22:19 PM »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-court-of-appeal-1.3813416

Quote
The Crown could exercise its "prosecutorial discretion" and choose not to retry Oland if a reasonable prospect of conviction no longer exists.

quote BaySailor
Quote
He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

I have always felt that by the very fact  Richard was so unlikable; how he mistreated  his family, including  having an 8 year affair with another woman,  in a large part, played against Dennis'  being viewed as innocent of such a crime.

Richard's very ugly nature - may have served as a strong motive for murder in the eyes of the jury, and others. True or Not True - it added yet another millstone around the neck of his son.

jb
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 07:50:17 PM by jellybean »

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1593 on: October 24, 2016, 07:56:03 PM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent. 

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1594 on: October 24, 2016, 09:09:51 PM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent.

Of course the police and prosecution would state there is no other suspect. With the contamination of the crime scene by police, and the tunnel vision of police on day one of the investigation, there was no chance for a thorough investigation into this murder. I think we have to agree that it was a crime of passion (or less likely, a random drugged-out maniac). As far as another suspect being considered, if LE had RO's cell phone, I think a viable suspect who hated him (one of many) would have shown up on his phone log.  There was no reason for Dennis to take RO's phone. He could easily explain every call made, or received from his father.  IMO it makes more sense that the real killer took and disposed of RO's phone for the obvious reason of disposing of evidence. That it pinged off the Rothesay tower was one more peg in Dennis's coffin of circumstantial evidence. 

LE will never investigate another suspect, and Dennis will never be cleared by a sector of public opinion, if he gets off or not.

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1595 on: October 25, 2016, 01:36:29 AM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent.

Of course the police and prosecution would state there is no other suspect. With the contamination of the crime scene by police, and the tunnel vision of police on day one of the investigation, there was no chance for a thorough investigation into this murder. I think we have to agree that it was a crime of passion (or less likely, a random drugged-out maniac). As far as another suspect being considered, if LE had RO's cell phone, I think a viable suspect who hated him (one of many) would have shown up on his phone log.  There was no reason for Dennis to take RO's phone. He could easily explain every call made, or received from his father.  IMO it makes more sense that the real killer took and disposed of RO's phone for the obvious reason of disposing of evidence. That it pinged off the Rothesay tower was one more peg in Dennis's coffin of circumstantial evidence. 

LE will never investigate another suspect, and Dennis will never be cleared by a sector of public opinion, if he gets off or not.

There are a variety of reasons why Dennis, if the killer, could have wanted to take his fathers iphone, including problematic web searches, compromising photos of the mistress, and texts or phone calls he might have felt were incriminating. It's quite probable the killer had no idea what calls and texts could be traced without the phone- I certainly didn't until this trial started.

If the Olands wanted to find the killer, either for justice for Dick or exoneration for Dennis, they have over 30 million bucks at their disposal to hire investigators with, without Derek or others pitching in. 2 years later they haven't got anything to give their defense team?   

Nish

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1596 on: October 25, 2016, 05:21:51 AM »
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent.

Of course the police and prosecution would state there is no other suspect. With the contamination of the crime scene by police, and the tunnel vision of police on day one of the investigation, there was no chance for a thorough investigation into this murder. I think we have to agree that it was a crime of passion (or less likely, a random drugged-out maniac). As far as another suspect being considered, if LE had RO's cell phone, I think a viable suspect who hated him (one of many) would have shown up on his phone log.  There was no reason for Dennis to take RO's phone. He could easily explain every call made, or received from his father.  IMO it makes more sense that the real killer took and disposed of RO's phone for the obvious reason of disposing of evidence. That it pinged off the Rothesay tower was one more peg in Dennis's coffin of circumstantial evidence. 

LE will never investigate another suspect, and Dennis will never be cleared by a sector of public opinion, if he gets off or not.

There are a variety of reasons why Dennis, if the killer, could have wanted to take his fathers iphone, including problematic web searches, compromising photos of the mistress, and texts or phone calls he might have felt were incriminating. It's quite probable the killer had no idea what calls and texts could be traced without the phone- I certainly didn't until this trial started.

If the Olands wanted to find the killer, either for justice for Dick or exoneration for Dennis, they have over 30 million bucks at their disposal to hire investigators with, without Derek or others pitching in. 2 years later they haven't got anything to give their defense team?   

Again: that we know of.

It's easy to sit back and make judgements on shoulda, woulda, coulda - not knowing the entire picture.

Your saying that there are no other suspects and the Olands could have fronted a private investigation is the exact same currency as my saying maybe there are and maybe they have.

My opinion: if the prosecution cannot put Dennis Oland behind bars fair and square then he deserves to walk free. He is presumed innocent, no matter what people think of the situation and how many smoking guns, or bloody jackets, exist.

Nish

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1597 on: October 25, 2016, 08:23:10 AM »
I understand the Court's reasoning in allowing the appeal based on the argument regarding the so-called "lie".  I'm not sure how much weight this would have carried in the minds of the jurors, however, in determining a verdict.  From the beginning, I thought it possible Dennis could be telling what he believed to be the truth regarding what he was wearing that day and had I been on the jury, that evidence would have meant very little to me.  It is notable the Court did dismiss all the other arguments (and, I believe, rightly so).

I find it a bit ironic that the "lie" and Dennis' testimony regarding his actions while he was at the wharf were the only things he said that I did find credible.

Since the jury would have already been aware that Dennis had lied to his father, his bank and his wife, the "lie", to me anyway, just serves as a bit of overkill (and I mean no disrespect to the victim when I use that word).  It served absolutely no purpose in helping to establish guilt and may have even contributed to doubt.  The Crown most definitely should have left that alone.

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1598 on: October 25, 2016, 09:13:16 AM »
BaySailor
Quote
There are a variety of reasons why Dennis, if the killer, could have wanted to take his fathers iphone, including problematic web searches, compromising photos of the mistress, and texts or phone calls he might have felt were incriminating. It's quite probable the killer had no idea what calls and texts could be traced without the phone- I certainly didn't until this trial started.

Valid reasons to take Dick's cell phone. Not only about the mistress, but also about any calls or texts to Dick's insurance people to change the policy.

There was a list of things to do on the accountants desk,   "Change Insurance Policy" was one of them. Alarm bells?  Did Dennis jump to erroneous conclusions?
Gossip of possible divorce and marriage to Diane would alarm Dennis as well.

The defense - attempted to cast suspicion on Diane's 80 year old husband on the stand - a feeble attempt at best.

Private Investigators were hired by the defence prior to trial - and came up with nothing.

Evidence is circumstantial in that there is no weapon found, no witnesses (there hardly ever is - in murder cases).

It  is like sand falling through the fingers.   No smoking gun.

Nish
Quote
He is presumed innocent, no matter what people think of the situation and how many smoking guns, or bloody jackets, exist.

Keep in mind, he is now presumed innocent of the crime due to Judges error in his instructions to the jury... (navy jacket - not the brown jacket that had Dick's dna)

Dennis will be home tonight, back with his family.

He is harmless.  The public should not be concerned for their safety.
jb

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/bail-hearing-dennis-oland-1.3820067

Court of Appeal grants Dennis Oland bail awaiting retrial
Court of Appeal ordered new trial on second-degree murder charge

CBC News Posted: Oct 25, 2016 11:32 AM AT Last Updated: Oct 25, 2016 11:43 AM AT

Dennis Oland has been granted bail by Justice Marc Richard of the New Brunswick Court of Appeal, a day after his second-degree murder conviction was overturned.

Richard said Oland will have to follow the same conditions as previous bail,

A $50,000 suriety from his uncle, Derek Oland is also required.

Oland will appear in Saint John Court of Queen's Bench on Dec. 5.


« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 09:37:23 AM by jellybean »

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1599 on: October 25, 2016, 09:29:26 AM »
Quote BaySailor:

"If the Olands wanted to find the killer, either for justice for Dick or exoneration for Dennis, they have over 30 million bucks at their disposal to hire investigators with, without Derek or others pitching in. 2 years later they haven't got anything to give their defense team? "

You may recall that a private detective was working this case, and drew complaints from a witness who thought he was a police investigator.  I would assume that the private detective was hired by the Olands.   

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1600 on: October 25, 2016, 10:14:31 AM »
If my memory serves me correctly, Have Faith, the Olands had denied any knowledge of hiring a private investigator and I tend to believe them.  Having said that, it is possible, of course, that the Defence team went ahead and did this on their own without the knowledge of the Olands.  In any event, it appears the heavy handed tactics of the investigators may have alienated any possible witnesses so the exercise was certainly not helpful to Dennis (or anyone else for that matter).

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1601 on: October 25, 2016, 11:01:47 AM »
If my memory serves me correctly, Have Faith, the Olands had denied any knowledge of hiring a private investigator and I tend to believe them.  Having said that, it is possible, of course, that the Defence team went ahead and did this on their own without the knowledge of the Olands.  In any event, it appears the heavy handed tactics of the investigators may have alienated any possible witnesses so the exercise was certainly not helpful to Dennis (or anyone else for that matter).

It is common practice for high priced lawyers to hire private detectives to interview witnesses, since they charge much less by the hour.  You may be right that the defense team hired one, and of course the bill would be included in their legal fees.

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1602 on: October 25, 2016, 11:33:35 AM »
I believe Gold did admit hiring private detectives (there were more than one). Nothing more was made of it. Gold's reasoning was the defense team wanted t o get  ahead of it, before it went to trial.    I provided the link at one point on this thread.

 And yes, witnesses were angry and fed up.  One originally thought a private investigator was actually a Saint John's detective, until he realized that the line of questions fell more into the defense line of thinking.

jb
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 11:50:21 AM by jellybean »

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1603 on: October 25, 2016, 12:17:12 PM »
I should have stated that my comment regarding the family hiring of investigators was for the period after the conviction. I am aware that someone did such prior to the trial and I too assume that was Gold. I can't imagine any family not doing so themselves after the conviction was registered in the interest of both justice for the incarcerated son, and the murdered father when they believe the true killer to be another person. It is not an uncommon occurrence where such hired help hand their leads to the prosecuting attorneys. I have not heard of anyone sniffing around Rothesay or Saint John since the original trial.

I believe, but am not certain, that the private investigators hired shortly after the murder were interviewing potential witnesses. That would lead me to think that this was preparation for a defense as opposed to a search for a different suspect. Dennis left the police station the day after his father died knowing they believed he was the killer.       

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1604 on: October 25, 2016, 05:48:28 PM »
I should have stated that my comment regarding the family hiring of investigators was for the period after the conviction. I am aware that someone did such prior to the trial and I too assume that was Gold. I can't imagine any family not doing so themselves after the conviction was registered in the interest of both justice for the incarcerated son, and the murdered father when they believe the true killer to be another person. It is not an uncommon occurrence where such hired help hand their leads to the prosecuting attorneys. I have not heard of anyone sniffing around Rothesay or Saint John since the original trial.

I believe, but am not certain, that the private investigators hired shortly after the murder were interviewing potential witnesses. That would lead me to think that this was preparation for a defense as opposed to a search for a different suspect. Dennis left the police station the day after his father died knowing they believed he was the killer.     

We don't know what measures and efforts the Oland's have taken to exonerate Dennis. But one thing is certain, without police assistance and cooperation, it is an impossible mission. Surely you know this BaySailor.