Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 482676 times)

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1545 on: July 26, 2016, 12:47:04 PM »
I'm not speaking of favoritism, Have Faith, in any of these cases.  I had said, it's the sense of entitlement in the Oland case I have a problem with.  I don't know (and could really care less) if this stems from a privileged background or simply from being a "spoiled brat" (and that's just my own impression, of course). 

I hardly think Morin, Parsons, or Truscott received any "favouritism" at any step in their long journeys through the justice system.  As a fourteen year old boy, Truscott was sentenced to hang.  Of course, Diefenbaker did commute the sentence but I doubt if the reason he did so was to show "favoritism".  Most of us who were actually around back then and remember the trial remember it as a farce (as was the whole case against him for that matter).  The same could be said with regard to Parsons and Morin so it is not surprising that in their cases they eventually were granted bail.  (I had actually forgotten, to be truthful, that Greg had received bail).

In any event I'm apparently not getting my point across so will waste no more time attempting to do so.    It is probably just best to agree to disagree.  I appreciate your comments.  They are always interesting.

If Dennis ultimately wins his appeals, more power to him.  That's why that process is in place and whatever I may or may not  think is really neither here nor there.

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1546 on: July 26, 2016, 08:42:54 PM »

RubyRose,
I was being facetious about Truscott's fast-track on appeals.  Of course he wasn't shown favourtism.

If you think that Oland has a sense of entitlement, and is being fast-tracked on his appeal date, then the justice system must obviously be showing "favouritism" toward him.  Oland didn't set the date for his appeal. Therefore there must be some favourtism going on.  Perhaps that is not the perfect word to describe it.

I was too young for the Truscott trial, but I sure thought Guy Paul Morin was guilty.  And many thought both were guilty until the advocates for the wrongful accused stepped in to help Truscott decades later, and helped both Morin and Parsons after their convictions. They (and the media) brought the doubt of their guilt to the public.

 All three were victimized by police "tunnel vision" and the ensuing corruption necessary to guarantee a guilty verdict. This is what concerns me in the Oland case.  Police tunnel vision was obvious from day one, and was noted by the preliminary trial judge who allowed the case to go forward to trial. I know that Dennis is the obvious killer, and he may well be guilty, but I don't trust that the jacket wasn't tampered with, let alone the fact that Dennis' clothes should have shown lots of blood stains when he left the office. That is common sense.  LE tunnel vision is a red flag for me, and I am concerned about it in Oland's case.  It is also easy for some to resent Oland due to his family's wealth, and that is where I feel some public opinion has lost objectivity. Of course this doesn't refer to those who feel that he is guilty regardless of his social standing. Those opinions I respect outright.

Anyway, the point was about Dennis being fast-tracked which implies that he has been shown favourtism by the court. I can't get my point through, and you feel the same way--so I agree, let's leave it at that.  :) 

jellybean

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« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 12:39:16 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1548 on: September 15, 2016, 03:56:54 PM »
I'm surprised at the Jury's decision that he was guilty only of manslaughter.

Clearly there was some premeditation here.

Also surprised a judge would consider it would not be in the public interest that he be kept incarcerated.  I would think it more  a difference in opinions between judges than a difference between provinces.  While he might pose no risk to the public at large, I fail to see any valid reason to grant him bail.  He was tried, convicted and found guilty.  Nothing whatsoever appears to be out of the ordinary in this case.

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1549 on: September 22, 2016, 03:10:31 PM »
I'm surprised at the Jury's decision that he was guilty only of manslaughter.

Clearly there was some premeditation here.

Also surprised a judge would consider it would not be in the public interest that he be kept incarcerated.  I would think it more  a difference in opinions between judges than a difference between provinces.  While he might pose no risk to the public at large, I fail to see any valid reason to grant him bail.  He was tried, convicted and found guilty.  Nothing whatsoever appears to be out of the ordinary in this case.

I agree! Was manslaughter the original charge, or did the judge convict him of manslaughter?

Nothing stopping him from running either should he be on parole.  After a taste of being incarcerated, I can't see him returning to the court house on the day of the verdict on his re-trial; whenever that take's place.

He was sure he would get off the first time... and once bitten, twice shy..... :-X

He would have the funds at his disposal to find a way to leave the country. should he chose to do so.

Just my recent opinion, after giving it much thought.

I felt the same way with Travis Vader being out on bail while his court case for a double homicide  was in progress.

What a stupid idea, I thought.   ???

However, Vader ended up in jail prior to the verdict,  due to his not being able to keep his hands off of a strangers truck that did not belong to him, along with a love of copper wire.
But that's another story... ::)

jb
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 03:29:59 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1550 on: September 22, 2016, 03:38:37 PM »
Of course with the present legal mess, Vader could well find himself out on bail again.  Since he does seem to gravitate toward trouble, that again might not last too long.  I hope it doesn't come to that but only time will tell.

In the case of the pastor, I believe the original charge was second degree murder.

Should Dennis eventually be granted bail, I don't see him as a risk to re-offend or leave the country.  Judging from his behaviour at the verdict, he does not appear to be all that stable.  I'd worry more he might be a risk to himself.  He would have been under considerable stress at that time, but I'd think that would probably be just as true now as well.

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1551 on: September 22, 2016, 10:46:20 PM »
I'm surprised at the Jury's decision that he was guilty only of manslaughter.

Clearly there was some premeditation here.

There certainly wasn't much evidence of that. I can't believe he would have planned to kill his father at the time he was scheduled to have a meeting with him, and shortly after chatting with his father's secretary. The cell phone and CCTV evidence showing his drive home to Rothesay indicates the murder took place within a small window of time, and thus any pre-planning resulting in the murder during any of his three visits to Dick's office would had to have been done in brief. Other than the fact we do not know where the murder weapon came from and thus a time from which intent must have been formed, the evidence suggests an angry murder after an argument or other such trigger, IMO.

I think Dennis would relatively happily return to Rothesay, his supportive wife and mother, and his job at Far End.     

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1552 on: September 23, 2016, 01:20:19 AM »
I wasn't referring to the Oland case, Bay Sailor.  I was referring to jellybean's reply #1547, the case of a pastor in Ontario who had originally been charged with murdering his pregnant wife and then being found guilty of manslaughter at trial.  To make a long story short, he was then granted bail while awaiting an appeal of that conviction.  Since there had been evidence of premeditation in that case, I was questioning the reduction in the charge.



jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1553 on: September 23, 2016, 02:27:14 PM »
cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-appeal-interveners-granted-1.3775878

Intervener status granted to 4 parties in Dennis Oland bail appeal
Supreme Court agrees to let 3 other attorneys general and a criminal lawyers group submit written arguments

CBC News Posted: Sep 23, 2016 12:53 PM AT Last Updated: Sep 23, 2016 12:53 PM AT

The Supreme Court of Canada has granted intervener status in Dennis Oland's appeal of his bail denial to three provinces and a lawyers association.

The attorneys general of Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta and the Criminal Lawyers' Association (Ontario) had applied to intervene in the case.

The court granted them intervener status and entitled them to each serve submit a statement of not more than 10 pages before Oct. 14.

Dennis Oland's Supreme Court bail appeal attracts 4 intervener requests
Requests from the interveners to present oral arguments in the case were deferred until the written arguments of the parties and the interveners can be considered

Oland's lawyers had opposed the motions to intervene by the three attorneys general, saying they "have no different or greater expertise" than the New Brunswick attorney general, which is a party in the case.

Oland is appealing decisions in New Brunswick courts that denied him to be freed on bail pending his appeal of his conviction for second-degree murder in the 2011 death of his father, multimillionaire Saint John businessman Richard Oland.

Dennis Oland's bid for bail appeal granted by Supreme Court
Court of Appeal Justice J.C. Marc Richard rejected Oland's bail request, ruling "the confidence of the public in the administration of justice would be undermined" if a convicted murderer were to be released pending appeal.

A three-justice panel of the Court of Appeal later upheld that decision. Oland then sought leave to appeal the decision to the country's highest court, which agreed to hear the case.

Arguments are scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court on Oct. 31.

Meanwhile, Oland's appeal of his conviction is scheduled to be heard by the New Brunswick Court of Appeal on Oct. 18 to 20.


Why are they intervening?  Read their explanations below for the "good stuff".....
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:44:27 PM by jellybean »

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1554 on: September 23, 2016, 02:35:47 PM »
If I recall, we were wondering about bail after a verdict has been reached, and seldom has it been done in past history.
Why are the three provinces becoming involved?

Here is the answer - It is a very long article, well worth reading...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-bail-supreme-court-intervene-1.3752823

snippets:

Ontario, Alberta, British Columbia and the Criminal Lawyers' Association of Ontario all contend they have an interest in the matter, scheduled to be heard by the country's highest court on Oct. 31, and have filed motions for leave to intervene.

"The issues raised in this [bail] appeal are of significant national and public importance," Gregory Tweney, acting director of the Crown's office of the Ministry of the Attorney General for Ontario, states in an affidavit filed in support of the motion to intervene.

The issues include the proper test for bail pending appeal and, in particular, when and to what extent the courts should consider the strength of the underlying grounds of appeal as part of the "public interest" component of the test, and the standard by which decisions made to detain or release, both pending appeal and pending trial, will be assessed.

If granted leave to intervene, "it will be Ontario's position that reasonable members of the public expect that sentences imposed for all crimes, but particularly for more serious offences, will be enforced when handed down," Tweney states.

"As a general proposition, very serious offences demand very strong grounds of appeal before bail will be considered."

​The outcome of the Oland case will have a "significant impact" in Ontario, "the most populous province in Canada, with the greatest volume of activity in the criminal courts," Tweney argues.

Christine Rideout, an agent of the attorney general of Alberta, also contends the grounds of appeal is "a crucial factor in assessing the public confidence component of the public interest."

Oland's lawyers' position that an appellant need only have arguable grounds, rather than serious grounds, to be considered for bail pending appeal "ignores the seriousness of the offence," Rideout states in her affidavit.

"The adoption of such a standard would mean that a convicted appellant's entitlement to bail is essentially the same as an untried accused's," she argues.

There is much more...read next post for the balanced approach being made by the CLA..

jb
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 03:26:58 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1555 on: September 23, 2016, 02:57:05 PM »
I tend to agree with Ms Rideout.  You can make an "arguable" case for just about anything whether it holds any merit or not.  If this precedent is established, it would be expected that it would only be applied thoughtfully and carefully.  Having seen some of the ridiculous decisions the judiciary have come up with in the past (many of which are noted on this site), however, there is no reason to believe that will be the case.

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1556 on: September 23, 2016, 03:12:32 PM »
I wasn't referring to the Oland case, Bay Sailor.  I was referring to jellybean's reply #1547, the case of a pastor in Ontario who had originally been charged with murdering his pregnant wife and then being found guilty of manslaughter at trial.  To make a long story short, he was then granted bail while awaiting an appeal of that conviction.  Since there had been evidence of premeditation in that case, I was questioning the reduction in the charge.

Big oops, please excuse me as I slink off into the wings on this one.  :-[  I am very sorry about that. Please accept my apology.

BaySailor

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1557 on: September 23, 2016, 03:30:17 PM »
Continued: Intervention

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-bail-supreme-court-intervene-1.3752823

Balanced perspective' important

The Criminal Lawyers' Association of Ontario, however, contend "there appears to be reluctance" by the New Brunswick Court of Appeal to grant bail pending appeal in homicide cases.

"We are of the view [that] is inconsistent with the robust bail pending appeal tradition in Canada," wrote Michael Lacy, a vice-president of the association, which represents more than 1,000 lawyers.

"Although there is no presumption of innocence in the bail pending appeal context, liberty interests as protected by s.7 of the Charter are very much in issue."

If the three attorneys general are granted leave to intervene, Lacy contends it will be important for the Supreme Court to also hear from his organization "to have a balanced perspective."

All of the prospective interveners have requested permission to file written arguments, not exceeding 10 pages, and to make oral submissions, not exceeding 10 minutes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intervention status has been granted
Supreme Court agrees to let 3 other attorneys general and a criminal lawyers group submit written arguments
CBC News Posted: Sep 23, 2016 12:53 PM AT Last Updated: Sep 23, 2016 12:53 PM AT

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-appeal-interveners-granted-1.3775878


« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 04:15:29 PM by jellybean »


jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1559 on: September 23, 2016, 04:19:53 PM »
I too have felt that this should apply across the country.  But, I agree that one would have to be careful as to whom this should apply to. I think some criminals will win - who should have lost - and those who should win - will still sit in jail.  Depending upon the expertise of his or lawyer.  I noted that 1,000 lawyers are behind the FOR -
And if I have read you correctly Have Faith, neither  would I not want to see the floodgates open for all convicted murderers to gain parole while their verdicts are being appealed.


Dates to watch for -/jb

Arguments on bail issue  are scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court on Oct. 31.

Meanwhile, Oland's appeal of his conviction is scheduled to be heard by the New Brunswick Court of Appeal on Oct. 18 to 20.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 04:32:58 PM by jellybean »