Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 486483 times)

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1350 on: December 31, 2015, 01:47:18 PM »
quote BaySailor
Quote
The idea was that some non-malicious errors or omissions by police shouldn't be an impediment to the conviction of a guilty party, but many feel that this now gives police the ability to build a case against an accused without regard to a citizen's rights under the constitution.

Excellent point, BaySailor - and well said.

That is the major concern.

This  Supreme Court ruling might have inadvertently given the nod to  law enforcement, to carelessly gather and to an extreme,  quietly alter evidence against any citizen, not only trampling the citizen's constitutional rights, but can open the door for the innocent to be found guilty. Simply because they are now held to a lesser standard.

Sadly, it could well fall upon the defense to scrutinize and re-test all (DNA) evidence at the expense of the defendant.  Few citizens have the monetary means to do so.


( Even though  it may not have been the Supreme Court's intent.)

I wonder if the Human Rights Watchdog is onto this ruling?

jb

« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 06:45:10 PM by jellybean »

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1351 on: December 31, 2015, 02:30:07 PM »
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-oland-murder-trial-that-took-new-brunswick-by-storm/
Quote

Quote
Elsewhere, Richard was notoriously stingy; he cut off funding to the Rothesay Pony Club, which his father had run at the family estate to teach people to ride horseback. Buskers at the Saint John city market complained that Richard never tipped.

Quote
Richard made his $37 million by establishing investment and transport companies, always with the merciless determination of Duddy Kravitz. When one of his former companies, Brookville Transport, declared bankruptcy, he never repaid the money he owed the mechanics. He poached clients from smaller trucking companies and would have put Bud the Spud out of business if he felt like it. He verbally abused his wife and three children, including Dennis, but remained devoted to his beloved sailboat.

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that Richard had many enemies who wanted him dead.

Quote

Quote
.
WOW!!!   :o :o!  So much for his love of the family tree, and tracing his ancestors, of which was one of his son's duties./jb


« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 06:54:00 PM by jellybean »

blueriver

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1352 on: December 31, 2015, 02:50:24 PM »
I would like to have access to the sequence of all testing of all evidence sent to the labs, the dates, what was sent and when it was returned (as police could only send so much at a time and wait for the return in order to send more). Following the jacket testing and retesting was on twitter but I would have to go back and find that to read that sequence and still there is not enough information. Was there an online article on the jacket testing and retesting from the trial? I looked around quickly but could not find a specific article. 

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1353 on: December 31, 2015, 07:07:13 PM »
Blueriver
Quote
Was there an online article on the jacket testing and retesting from the trial? I looked around quickly but could not find a specific article.

I have not come across one, but if you by chance should find one, kindly post it.
You are right, the exam of the jacket is in the tweets of the trial.
Sadly, looking around quickly will not locate much - I've tried it myself, and it does not work.
Odd time, google is good to me. Try google with term = DNA Testing of Dennis Oland's brown jacket,  and see what comes up.

jb
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 07:11:02 PM by jellybean »

D1

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1354 on: December 31, 2015, 08:26:15 PM »
Much of the potential for retrial is akin to basing it upon a typo error imop. Obstruction by way of the production of false evidence is a different story. For that you must have much more than what has been shown. There is leeway but within the bounds of normalicy and common sense. The jacket was obtained by warrant, Dennis lied about the jacket and then drycleaned it, knowing he was a suspect. Police carried through with testing but a little late. Was the lab busy? Oversight? New test procedures? Is this enough on its own to cause sufficient doubt?

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1355 on: December 31, 2015, 10:08:58 PM »
I would like to have access to the sequence of all testing of all evidence sent to the labs, the dates, what was sent and when it was returned (as police could only send so much at a time and wait for the return in order to send more). Following the jacket testing and retesting was on twitter but I would have to go back and find that to read that sequence and still there is not enough information. Was there an online article on the jacket testing and retesting from the trial? I looked around quickly but could not find a specific article.

The media bloggers tried to record the testimonies from LE, on the huge volume of exhibits submitted for evidence, and those submitted to the the forensic lab, eg on what dates they were submitted and when they got results back.  I provided a link to their blogs in my post 1066, shown below.

I focused on the  blog reports of when LE sent the the brown jacket for testing to forensics, and how many times it was sent over four years for further testing.  The jacket wasn't sent for analysis for four months after the murder, and I have to assume that the lab found DNA evidence at that time, although this wasn't made clear in the blogs.  Testimony by LE on how evidence is stored by the SJ's police, notes that exhibits that have been sent for forensic testing, and returned, are stored under strict access.  But evidence that hasn't been submitted is stored in lockers that are accessible. 

Regardless of time and budget restraints on our forensic labs, the jacket that LE knew that DO wore, and "lied" about on the day of DO's murder, should have been sent as a priority exhibit for DNA analysis to find evidence of DO's blood.  Why did ithe jacket sit in a locker for four months?   No police force is that negligent on key evidence, knowing that the warrant expired  months before.  The jacket should have been the next exhibit after the lab determined RO's DNA.  This doesn't make sense to me.  Red flag.

If he took off the jacket before he killed DO, that could explain why the jacket wasn't covered in blood.  But you have to watch a video of Dennis just after, when LE assert he killed his father, and there is no expected significant blood, or "can't say significant blood" (LE expert) on anything that he is wearing.  Dennis only had 26 minutes to pull this off and be seen blood free on video wearing the same clothes determined by an earlier video. 

Regardless of my opinion that Dick was killed by someone other than Dennis, I don't see a successful appeal.  This is an uphill battle in a trial by jury.


My post # 1066 re testing of the jacket.  Any missing blogs will have to be found on your time.   :)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-coverage-1.3258240

"I do question why LE felt the need to gather and send off DNA samples for analyses from three individuals, two and three years after the murder. Why would they need to do this if they had proof that RO's blood was on DO's jacket?

-July, 2013--Galen McFadden (given voluntarily)

-Nov. 26, 2013--Bob McFadden (obtained without his knowledge)

-May 14, 2014--Derek Oland (obtained without his knowledge)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-coverage-1.3258240


The jacket stains were actually sent to the lab four times, as follows:

-Nov. 30, 2011 (jacket hand delivered with RO's clothing)

-April 3 or 12, 2012 (jacket hand delivered or Purolated with blood stains from crime scene)

-Oct. 26, 2012 (jacket hand delivered)

-Apr. 27, 2015  (DNA extracts from 4 blood stains, and DNA extract from RO and DO, sent by Purolater)

The above is from today's testimony from Sgt. Dave MacDonald of the S.J. forensic unit.  The last submission noted is from Sgt. Mark Smith's earlier testimony. He is the head of the S.J. forensic unit."














 






BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1356 on: December 31, 2015, 10:12:14 PM »
Police carried through with testing but a little late. Was the lab busy? Oversight? New test procedures? Is this enough on its own to cause sufficient doubt?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an honest and competent police force to renew an expiring warrant when it lapses, regardless of the reason for a delay in testing items seized with that warrant. It's not for law enforcement to decide whether or not Dennis's actions warrant such an extension, it is for an impartial judge to decide. And that did not happen.     

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1357 on: January 01, 2016, 12:29:04 PM »
Police carried through with testing but a little late. Was the lab busy? Oversight? New test procedures? Is this enough on its own to cause sufficient doubt?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an honest and competent police force to renew an expiring warrant when it lapses, regardless of the reason for a delay in testing items seized with that warrant. It's not for law enforcement to decide whether or not Dennis's actions warrant such an extension, it is for an impartial judge to decide. And that did not happen.     

I think what we are looking for, is above board efficient policing.
IMO, I see little of that, in the investigation into the murder of Richard Oland.

 About that ping.  In testing, the detective had his quandrants wrong, in addition, he tested a cell phone in the winter months.  To my way of thinking, I would imagine the atmosphere would be heavier in the winter months, so I wonder if those tests would be accurate, compared to summer months??
Can someone fill me in - on whether this could make a significant difference?

Have Faith; I believe at one point, the detective kept the jacket in a freezer. During trial, the defense never asked the detective where this freezer was kept, nor did they ask, what other things were kept in that freezer?? Not 100% sure, but  evidence was kept in a freezer, I believe it was the jacket in the brown paper bag.


jb
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:42:38 PM by jellybean »

blueriver

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1358 on: January 01, 2016, 01:39:39 PM »
Many thanks, Have Faith. Regarding the testing of the jacket, I wonder how long it took to receive Dick's DNA back from the lab? And regarding the evidence exhibits, I am shocked that forensic evidence that has been returned from the lab is under strict access but evidence that hasn't been tested and returned is accessible. Wouldn't this untested evidence have a seal? Maybe I have watched too many true crime TV shows.

I seem to remember the last test on the jacket was new technology but maybe confusing it with something else I heard or read. But why the police sent it for testing two other times not including the first one is not something I have heard before.

I don't know if the answers to any questions will ever be known. Perhaps if a reputable author writes a book and this author has access to police records.

Why the police chose to obtain the other individuals DNA is questionable, too, especially the two they did not outright ask for but put them under surveillance and obtained without their knowledge is questionable, too. Why go to that extent even?

The warrant expiring on the testing of the jacket is a technicality and I really don't know if this will be the basis of an appeal or whether it will get the defence anywhere. Perhaps the defence has more. Sloppy police work. And, as I mentioned before, with technology today I would think when a warrant with an expiry date and all warrants probably have expiry dates, a computerized alert should be sent when the expiry date is nearing. Especially on such an significant piece of evidence.

Happy New Year to everyone!


blueriver

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1360 on: January 01, 2016, 05:25:38 PM »
Thank you, Debbiec. I had not seen this before. Seems there is an alert system in place for expiring warrants. I wonder why the logbook information was redacted although it could just be that it contains personal information and names. The jacket was seized on July 14/11 and first sent for testing on November 30 as pointed out in Have Faith's post and a report and the jacket were returned 3 months later on March 1, 2012. On March 31 a request was sent to have remaining stains resubmitted and that test came back 3 months later on June 28. Could not find mention of date Dick's DNA test was returned.

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1361 on: January 02, 2016, 06:37:03 AM »
Quote

Why the police chose to obtain the other individuals DNA is questionable, too, especially the two they did not outright ask for but put them under surveillance and obtained without their knowledge is questionable, too. Why go to that extent even?

Happy New Year to everyone!



I believe in the case of the father and son, blueriver, it was likely simply a process of elimination.  It was determined that the blood on the paper towel recovered in the washroom was that of the son.  What I did find a bit strange was that while the son willingly provided a sample,the father would not.  I might have thought he would have wanted to assist the investigation in any way that he could.  However, he would be perfectly within his rights not to do so.  Still I wondered about it.

Stranger still to me was the lengths gone to in obtaining a sample from Mr. Derek Oland.  He has stated publicly that had he been aware, he would have gladly provided a sample to police and I believe him.  I can't think he would have been considered a suspect.  If my memory serves me correctly, he was not even in the province at the time of Mr. Richard Oland's death.

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1362 on: January 02, 2016, 12:15:15 PM »

Stranger still to me was the lengths gone to in obtaining a sample from Mr. Derek Oland.  He has stated publicly that had he been aware, he would have gladly provided a sample to police and I believe him.  I can't think he would have been considered a suspect.  If my memory serves me correctly, he was not even in the province at the time of Mr. Richard Oland's death.

Yes, I recall he was out of the country at the time. There were so many strange decisions made by LE along the way that it suggests to me they weren't thinking straight. Perhaps they were so overwhelmed by the publicity and VIP-ish nature of the case they were unable to function normally. Basic incompetence just doesn't seem to cover the ineptness and odd decision-making that went into this investigation.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 12:46:44 PM by BaySailor »

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1363 on: January 02, 2016, 12:36:49 PM »
Quote RubyRose

Quote
Stranger still to me was the lengths gone to in obtaining a sample from Mr. Derek Oland.  He has stated publicly that had he been aware, he would have gladly provided a sample to police and I believe him.  I can't think he would have been considered a suspect.  If my memory serves me correctly, he was not even in the province at the time of Mr. Richard Oland's death.

Very strange to me as well.  It is almost as though the dna on DO's jacket was difficult to determine at one point?? But I highly suspect foreign dna may have been found on the body of Richard, or the hair found in his hand, had to be tested.

There was a reason for doing it, as they went to great lengths to obtain it.

jb

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1364 on: January 02, 2016, 01:53:18 PM »
Quote jb:

"Have Faith; I believe at one point, the detective kept the jacket in a freezer. During trial, the defense never asked the detective where this freezer was kept, nor did they ask, what other things were kept in that freezer?? Not 100% sure, but  evidence was kept in a freezer, I believe it was the jacket in the brown paper bag."

Jb I recall that all exhibits are kept in paper bags, unless they are wet or damp (eg bloody).  Wet or damp exhibits are kept in plastic bags and frozen to prevent mould.  Since the brown jacket was never described as being in a plastic bag, or having wet stains, I assume that it was never frozen.

"Jacket was rolled and placed into paper police exhibit bag. First examined by SJPF Const. David MacDonald on Nov. 9/11.
10:49 AM - 15 Dec 2015
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-jury-instruction-tuesday-1.3365555http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2603853/oland-jacket-lab-results-2.pdf

from:  http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2603853/oland-jacket-lab-results-2.pdf







« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 03:21:43 PM by Have faith »