Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 487365 times)

jellybean

  • Member
  • Posts: 8208
  • Tired of Crime not doing their time
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1335 on: December 27, 2015, 12:38:49 PM »
Regarding Dennis Oland's trial, and being found guilty -  This is where  I have arrived after pondering it. He is guilty, sadly.

The evidence against Dennis was presented to the crown prosecutor, and it was felt that the evidence was strong enough for charges of second degree murder.

Dennis was released from jail on bond, even though he had been charged with second degree murder.

Defendants have a choice, trial by their peers, or by judge.  Dennis chose his peers.

5,000 summons were mailed out to whittle down to 14, 12 to decide, 2 spares.

Of that pool, there would have been a huge cross section from society.
I am not sure, if professional jury selectors were involved. *as can be available at a $$ for the defendant in the US.

One thing about citizens being on a jury is that they carry with them, many life experiences, while a judge can only bring his past courtroom experiences.   Life experiences, multiplied by 12 can cover a lot of ground.

Trial by judges can also be very tricky.  Some are experts in some areas, some are not.  One thing they do know, is the law, and even then, the law can be very complicated, and open to individual interpretation.

Not all judges are equal.  And lawyers will often jostle for the court time, when their favorite judge will be available.

Dennis had a preliminary inquiry - not all defendants facing murder charges have the opportunity.  Very often it is straight to trial.
The evidence against him was presented to the preliminary court, it passed the test, and it deemed worthy to trial.

I agree with you, HF that a 250 page of instructions from Judge Walsh would not be easy to absorb. The judge had the input from both the prosecutor and the defense regarding the instructions.

One would think that it was written in layman's language, which would ease the burden of coming to a decision.  I noted that not once did the jury ask the judge for clarification of anything, so I assume that the instructions were easy to read.


Lastly, a defendant is allowed by law to an apply for an appeal.

Three judges will hear the appeal and make their decision.  Here, of course, they will judge by the letter of, and interpretation of the law.

Dennis had,-

- been allowed out of jail on bond, even though he was arrested for 2nd degree murder.


-a potential jury pool to choose from 5,000 citizens

-The golden team of the best of the lawyers in the country

-an inquiry, where evidence was presented to the court, and it was deemed worthy to proceed  to trial.

-a judge who was an expert in dna

- the choice of trial by judge or jury

- Dennis did not sit in the defendants box, was allowed to sit beside his lawyers.
   He was still free to come and go within society while the trial continued.

- the jury was privy to all of the evidence. the jury sat for many hours and made their decision.

-Dennis has a right to apply for an appeal

-Three judges will hear it.

- The jury has been offered counselling.

- Dennis Oland has been afforded the very best, Taxpayers will be footing alot of the bill.

While  the evidence was, not multiple, it passed three tests - Crown Prosecutor, Inquiry, and Trial by Jury.

I do agree that juries should have the right to speak to the public as to how they came to their decision, if they choose to do so.  Remaining Silent makes adjustment difficult, however, it is quite possible that some info will leak out.

No one wants to see a married man with family go to jail for 25 years. None of us do.

jb

 

 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 09:03:26 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1336 on: December 27, 2015, 04:34:20 PM »
Most of the folks I have spoken with since the trial ended are quite satisfied with the verdict and the job that the jury did.  I've heard no criticisms of either them or the judge who presided over the case.  One has to remember that the jury did deliberate for almost four days before reaching their verdict and there most certainly was evidence to support it.

Many of us believe that, as in every other case, there very likely was evidence which was deemed to be inadmissible.  Had it been allowed, it could very well have cleared up the questions which may still appear to be unanswered.  Remember that had the Defence been successful in its argument, even the blood stained jacket would not have been allowed.  There are other things of which I am sure we are not aware.  Ironic really, when you consider how much information was made available which really served no purpose whatsoever.


Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1002
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1337 on: December 28, 2015, 09:24:34 PM »
I have also, finally come to a decision-- I don't think that Dennis killed his father. 

I can only hope that the SJ police will seriously investigate this case, if it is overturned by appeal.  They need to check out the landlord of his ofifce building as an example, and other people who could have hated RO.  Their " instant" belief that Dennis was guilty, is a classic example of tunnel vision.   The lead detective SD, who interviewed Dennis, lied on the stand about checking the back door.  The judge brought this to the juror's attention, so we know that there were steps, and he bare faced lied about that.  That is a big red flag for his lack of credibility.

He was promoted to lead investigator when the senior investigator retired.  This did not sit well with more experieced cops, and SD was under the gun to prove himself.  He had access to the brown jacket which sat in a locker for four months.  The tunnel vision that Dennis was the killer permeated the SJ police force.  SD lied on the stand, and his police chief lied about being at the crime scene.  I can't trust that RO's blood wasn't dabbed on DO's jacket after months of DNA testing that exonerated Dennis.  Dick's blood sample was stored at the SJ facility. 

I believe that police "tainting" of the jacket makes much more sense, than trying to figure out how Dennis killed RO and there is absolutely no evidence of him committing such a bloody act.  Think about it!  The few blood spots on his jacket that was stored away for four months, finally showed Dick's DNA.



Modified to use initials.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 10:31:21 AM by Have faith »

BaySailor

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1338 on: December 29, 2015, 07:38:52 AM »
I have also, finally come to a decision-- I don't think that Dennis killed his father. 


May I ask how you account for the 6:30 ish cellphone ping off of the Rothesay tower? A fluke ping or somebody else such as Dick being out there at that time?

To me, that is the most incriminating piece of evidence that a jury might have a hard time getting its mind around. You have to believe someone else took it out there at that time or that it was a fluke redirected ping that neither the prosecution nor defence was able to recreate. I'm pretty sure the defense would have performed their own tests hoping to replicate it and introduce it as evidence, but without success.   

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1002
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1339 on: December 29, 2015, 10:24:27 AM »
I have also, finally come to a decision-- I don't think that Dennis killed his father. 


May I ask how you account for the 6:30 ish cellphone ping off of the Rothesay tower? A fluke ping or somebody else such as Dick being out there at that time?

To me, that is the most incriminating piece of evidence that a jury might have a hard time getting its mind around. You have to believe someone else took it out there at that time or that it was a fluke redirected ping that neither the prosecution nor defence was able to recreate. I'm pretty sure the defense would have performed their own tests hoping to replicate it and introduce it as evidence, but without success.   


I agree the cellphone ping off the Rothesay tower is incriminating evidence.  But the Crown expert did state that it wasn't impossible for this to happen.  Highly unlikely, but not impossible. 

BaySailor

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1340 on: December 29, 2015, 10:36:12 AM »
I have also, finally come to a decision-- I don't think that Dennis killed his father. 


May I ask how you account for the 6:30 ish cellphone ping off of the Rothesay tower? A fluke ping or somebody else such as Dick being out there at that time?

To me, that is the most incriminating piece of evidence that a jury might have a hard time getting its mind around. You have to believe someone else took it out there at that time or that it was a fluke redirected ping that neither the prosecution nor defence was able to recreate. I'm pretty sure the defense would have performed their own tests hoping to replicate it and introduce it as evidence, but without success.   


I agree the cellphone ping off the Rothesay tower is incriminating evidence.  But the Crown expert did state that it wasn't impossible for this to happen.  Highly unlikely, but not impossible.

Thanks!

jellybean

  • Member
  • Posts: 8208
  • Tired of Crime not doing their time
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1341 on: December 29, 2015, 01:05:47 PM »
It was the simple cell phone ping at 6"44 to Dick's phone from Diane which pinged off of Rothsay Tower, that made me realize that Dennis was involved - even without the jacket.
I had concentrated on that jacket, and overlooked the obvious (that ping).
If Dennis had left the phone in the office, he may have had a better chance, but I think he took that phone to check on a few things..
1. to confirm that his Dad was having an affair with Diane.
2. any further meetings to make changes - regarding will and insurance, that may not favour the family. There was a note of things to do on Accountant's desk, "change will and insurance" was on the list - Dennis would have seen that note....
If he had mistakenly put two and two together, Diane and change will and insurance, and boom, panic and alarm bells. imo

In my opinion, Dick was murdered before any changes could come about. (Dennis was unaware of course that his father had no intentions of excluding his family).  Since Dennis was knowledgable of the standing will at the time, which favoured his family, he had to make sure that it was kept that way.  just my opinion in part of the motive. We know the horrible financial straits that he was in, and was used as the main motive.



jb
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 01:29:39 PM by jellybean »

D1

  • Member
  • Posts: 2826
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1342 on: December 29, 2015, 01:41:49 PM »
In any circumstantial evidence based case, you have to look at everything in its entirety. Any one little piece taken in isolation can be viewed in different ways. Its the total cummulation of evidence that produces the odds of probability. To allege anything other than what the jury decided would take a great deal more supporting evidence than there is. jmo

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1343 on: December 29, 2015, 03:08:48 PM »
Quite correct, D1.  The available evidence supports the verdict and as I had said in an earlier post, I firmly believe there may also be supporting evidence of which we cannot be made aware (at least at this time while this verdict still stands).

I was one of the individuals who did believe at the beginning that Dennis was innocent but I now no longer believe there is even a chance of any "reasonable" doubt.

jellybean

  • Member
  • Posts: 8208
  • Tired of Crime not doing their time
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1344 on: December 29, 2015, 04:34:19 PM »
In my post, I gave possible reasons why that phone was taken.  The question arose many times, why take the phone, if his financial debt and rage was the main motive?
There would be little time after the murder to think about a phone, unless that was one thing that he needed to have.

The prosecution had a witness regarding the Will and Insurance on the stand.
Why bother, if that was not something to add to the layer of circumstantial evidence?

The prosecution suggested in his closing summation, that Dennis. that very day asked his father for more money and was denied.

To my mind, Dennis knew that he could get money rather quickly in another way.... and perhaps it was best to do it, before his father divorced his mother, changed his will  etc. etc.
Diane was the main topic between siblings. Had been for well over a year. Hysteria about an unwanted relationship that can threaten a family's financial security can build up.


jb
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 04:58:25 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1345 on: December 29, 2015, 05:01:32 PM »
There would have been a certain amount of planning involved, jellybean, as indicated by three trips.  Why three?  It seems excessive.  Something happened on the previous two to necessitate, at least in the killer's mind, the third, perhaps?  Otherwise, if it had simply been rage taking over, the killing would have happened spontaneously.

The original story to police about possibly having used the wash room was a smart touch.  It would have explained any forensic evidence which he may have left there.  Of course, police by using the washroom for two days, likely destroyed any that there may have been to begin with.  I wondered why he even bothered to change that part of the story. I assume it was after learning this but it would really have made no difference one way or the other to his defence.

I am also curious about the note that was inside the purple purse which was seized during the execution of the search warrant.  Obviously, the police thought it was important enough to seize at the time but to the best of my knowledge no mention was ever made of it at the trial, or, if it was, it was skimmed over very quickly.

jellybean

  • Member
  • Posts: 8208
  • Tired of Crime not doing their time
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1346 on: December 29, 2015, 06:12:17 PM »
Yes, the bathroom was a smart touch.... Four years after the murder, he remembers on the stand that he did not use the washroom, he waited until he got home.  What was the purpose of this, other than he did not linger on his first trip - he walked up the stairs and then went back down.

The note in the purple purse - yes - as to curious, me too! I would also be curious  to know who that purple purse belonged to. ....?.Oh,  never mind ........................
It could have been a grocery list for Sobeys. Since they seem to be so fond of that place.

On a serious note, like Have Faith said about that jacket..... I too worry about that jacket and its testing.
The police force is being investigated over their handling of this case, and sadly they could not give a date as to when the investigation will be finished.

I worry about that too.  For certain it will not be finished in time for any appeal put forward by the defence in Dennis' conviction. Although, I believe the verdict was correct.  The jury got to the truth  as close as they could get.

However, I do not believe that any defendant, whatever the crime, should not have to make an appeal with his hands tied.  Fair is Fair?? His appeal should include the conclusions of the inquiry into the police force actions.
Looks like it will not be.

Side note: Did notice one photo, taken - that there was a coat rack in Dick's office with two raincoats. It was not the photo in evidence, that is, if we were given all of the photos to view.


jb
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 10:19:25 PM by jellybean »

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1347 on: December 30, 2015, 05:53:23 AM »
It is not an investigation of the police force itself, rather more an enquiry into the way the Oland investigation was handled.  No one is denying that there were mistakes made and some were quite glaring.  The purpose, supposedly, is to prevent errors should a similar unhappy event occur in the future.  Most people still believe, however, that the correct person was charged and convicted.

There have already been some important changes made.  Saint John has a new police chief now and it is hoped he will stand behind and continue to support his force.  It does not appear to me, at least, that he has done a bad job so far but he has only been there for a short time.  I suspect, and this is really just my own opinion, that Deputy Chief McCloskey will be "retiring" soon, as well.  It is not correct as one poster did state here, however, that he lied regarding being at the murder scene.  He did, in fact, admit he was there.  The allegation is that he encouraged another force member not to mention that fact.

Money (one way or another it always comes back to money) has been allocated to hire more policemen.  Four recruits have already been hired.  It is a well known fact that the Saint John police force has been seriously understaffed for years.  The same would very likely be true of any police force in Canada.  Again, it all comes down to budgets.

I hope these changes will benefit the citizens of Saint John in a positive way.

As for Dennis, none of this will have any effect on his appeals.  That will very likely simply be  another case of it always coming back to money and he will have the resources to be provided with the best possible appeal (although, to be fair, his lawyers really didn't show much indication of it during the trial).   I suspect much of that over confidence will have dissipated in time for the appeal, though.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 06:00:04 AM by RubyRose »

jellybean

  • Member
  • Posts: 8208
  • Tired of Crime not doing their time
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1348 on: December 30, 2015, 07:51:12 PM »
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/as-dennis-oland-found-guilty-of-fathers-murder-police-blunders-come-under-scrutiny-in-new-brunswick


The brown-jacket ruling by the judge, however, is still likely to be a key ground of appeal, said the professor.

BaySailor

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1349 on: December 30, 2015, 11:26:31 PM »

I'd love to know whether the frequency of evidence being improperly seized or tested by law enforcement has increased since the 2009 Supreme Court's decisions. I would not be surprised to hear that such 'innocent' mistakes have 'coincidentally' become more common. It was a controversial decision by the Supreme Court then (actually 3 cases that all involved evidentiary problems) and may have created additional problems that are more problematic than the ones it attempted to resolve. The idea was that some non-malicious errors or omissions by police shouldn't be an impediment to the conviction of a guilty party, but many feel that this now gives police the ability to build a case against an accused without regard to a citizen's rights under the constitution. I'm sure the latter would be Dennis's position.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 09:53:10 AM by BaySailor »