Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 482000 times)

BaySailor

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1815 on: April 06, 2019, 03:18:28 PM »
Thank you for sharing, BaySailor.  P.W., like his son, sounds like a man who was used to having things his own way.  It must have been awkward and uncomfortable for those who witnessed it, though.

I think it must have been awkward and uncomfortable for those at Dick's table.  For many others it was somewhat entertaining.

P.W.'s bearing was very much that of a British military officer; he served with distinction in the Canadian Army in WWII as a captain and died a Brigadier General. Warm and fuzzy he was not, but neither was he a bad guy. 

capeheart

  • Member
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1816 on: April 14, 2019, 06:36:18 PM »
It is great that we can all sit in our chairs and think about what went on or imagine in our minds the day of the crime and how we think it really happened. The jacket has been the point of great discussion. However in our minds if we think about all the blood that was spattered about the crime scene, a great deal. I saw some pictures last week that were on a TV program, W5 or Fifth Estate, not sure. I think it would be incredible if the person was not covered in a lot of blood, their skin and hair must have had blood on it. The dry cleaner indicated to remove blood from a jacket would take a special solution. So he indicated that was not the case, there was no special solution or no visible blood on the jacket, from my memory of what he said. Whoever did the crime, if it was Dennis, would certainly have to remain calm enough to remember to remove the cell phone and also to take the weapon with him and discreetly get out of the building without anyone noticing his departure, and this would all be during daylight hours.  It just is so unreal to me that nobody saw him, no eye witness seeing him leave the building. The gentlemen that heard the noises, unusual that they didn't investigate, since they knew that possibly Richard was working in his office.  It is all circumstantial.  I thought that if Dennis did do this crime, that once he was arrested that he would have folded, said yes, I did it in a rage, I couldn't take it anymore, but that is not what happened.  That is why I am feeling some doubt.  What kind of a person can be so calm, cool and collected, if they committed the crime of killing their own father, no matter what the history was. From the program I watched, it said that Richard Oland was not a well liked man and had lots of enemies.  So when you think of it, there is a some doubt, a smidgen of doubt.  So this decision is by judge alone, but if it was a jury, I believe they would find him guilty.  Of course, you never know which way the wind blows there either.  I used to work for a judge years ago and he used to say: "If he wasn't guilty, he wouldn't be here." ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1817 on: May 24, 2019, 08:46:24 PM »
The judge's decision is not expected until July 19.

New Brunswick Court of Queen's Bench Justice Terrence Morrison had hoped to have a ruling ready by June 7. But after hearing closing arguments on Thursday, he said he now realizes that was "wildly optimistic."

  I wonder why closing arguments delayed the judge's expected time of ruling from June 7 to July 19?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-closing-arguments-1.5127906

BaySailor

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1818 on: May 26, 2019, 11:52:53 PM »
The judge's decision is not expected until July 19.

New Brunswick Court of Queen's Bench Justice Terrence Morrison had hoped to have a ruling ready by June 7. But after hearing closing arguments on Thursday, he said he now realizes that was "wildly optimistic."

  I wonder why closing arguments delayed the judge's expected time of ruling from June 7 to July 19?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-closing-arguments-1.5127906

I take him at face value when the judge he says that his original estimate of how long it would take him to render the decision was too 'optimistic' In the CBC's twitter reporting from the page you link he backs that up with notes to other Judge only murder trials. Given he had researched and was able to orate those case comparisons to the court he must have realized he would need more time before the closing arguments began, but didn't announce it until he made his closing comments after said arguments.   

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1819 on: May 30, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »
The judge's decision is not expected until July 19.

New Brunswick Court of Queen's Bench Justice Terrence Morrison had hoped to have a ruling ready by June 7. But after hearing closing arguments on Thursday, he said he now realizes that was "wildly optimistic."

  I wonder why closing arguments delayed the judge's expected time of ruling from June 7 to July 19?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-closing-arguments-1.5127906

I take him at face value when the judge he says that his original estimate of how long it would take him to render the decision was too 'optimistic' In the CBC's twitter reporting from the page you link he backs that up with notes to other Judge only murder trials. Given he had researched and was able to orate those case comparisons to the court he must have realized he would need more time before the closing arguments began, but didn't announce it until he made his closing comments after said arguments.   


Thanks BaySailer for the explanation-- I didn't read the twitters this time.

jobo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3633
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1820 on: July 19, 2019, 05:32:03 AM »
Today is the day they decide Dennis’s fate.

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1821 on: July 19, 2019, 07:48:01 AM »
Judge finds him NOT GUILTY!

https://globalnews.ca/news/5653384/oland-not-guilty-of-murder/


Justice Terrence Morrison of the New Brunswick Court of Queen’s Bench delivered his decision Friday to a packed courtroom in Saint John, N.B.
Morrison said there were too many missing pieces of the puzzle to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

“More than suspicion is needed to convict a person of murder,” he said.

tps://nationalpost.com/news/canada/breaking-in-retrial-dennis-oland-found-not-guilty-of-fathers-2011-murder#comments-area

edited to add second link
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 08:42:50 AM by Have faith »

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1822 on: July 19, 2019, 08:45:26 AM »
Pretty much the expected outcome, I think, Have Faith.  I would have have been surprised this time around if it had gone the other way.

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1823 on: July 19, 2019, 08:52:18 AM »
A bit more information of the judge's comments by CBC court tweets. The Crown will review the judge's reason for his decision before deciding to appeal it or not.

tps://nationalpost.com/news/canada/breaking-in-retrial-dennis-oland-found-not-guilty-of-fathers-2011-murder#comments-area

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1824 on: July 19, 2019, 08:58:25 AM »
Pretty much the expected outcome, I think, Have Faith.  I would have have been surprised this time around if it had gone the other way.

Ruby, it all came down to whether there was "reasonable doubt".  In that regard, I am not surprised that this is what the judge determined. The jury should have legally determined the same imo.

jobo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3633
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1825 on: July 19, 2019, 10:42:51 AM »
I also figured he would be found Not Guilty...too bad the case was bungled from the start.

So....New Brunswick investigators...get moving....you apparently have a killer that has gotten away with murder for eight years now.  I’m surprised that Dicks family hasn’t been screaming about the killer who got away...wow.

RubyRose

  • Member
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1826 on: July 19, 2019, 11:15:00 AM »
I also figured he would be found Not Guilty...too bad the case was bungled from the start.

So....New Brunswick investigators...get moving....you apparently have a killer that has gotten away with murder for eight years now.  I’m surprised that Dicks family hasn’t been screaming about the killer who got away...wow.

I think that has always been one of the things about this whole circus that has bothered me most, jobo.  Even though he may not have been the easiest person in the world to get along with, no one really seems to care or give a thought to the victim.  Ironic really, considering the way the whole thing has played out.

capeheart

  • Member
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1827 on: July 19, 2019, 01:30:45 PM »
 I do believe Dennis is not guilty of the crime. He has gone through two trials and it is hard to believe that this has gone on for eight years, it seems like maybe two or something.  I believe the citizens of N.B. have to believe in the justice system and move on.  I did believe in this trial he would be found Not Guilty.  I mean put yourself in his place, anyone out there. No proof whatsoever of this man committing this crime, all circumstantial evidence. It could have been anyone who had an anger issue against the victim. He was a shrewd business man and known not that easy to get along with.  I stand by the Judge's decision and wish Dennis Oland all the best in the future and to his family who have endured two trials and years of going through all of this.  I hope the public accepts the decision in this matter and everyone embraces Dennis in the community.

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1828 on: July 19, 2019, 04:39:29 PM »
I also figured he would be found Not Guilty...too bad the case was bungled from the start.

So....New Brunswick investigators...get moving....you apparently have a killer that has gotten away with murder for eight years now.  I’m surprised that Dicks family hasn’t been screaming about the killer who got away...wow.


Defense lawyer Gold, at his press statements today said that there is no celebration of Dennis being found not guilty until such time that the real killer is caught.  Take that for what you think it is worth.

The Oland family offered to put up a reward early in the investigation. Chief of Police, Bill Reid refused the offer, saying we know Dennis did it. The police tunnel vision was evident from the day after RO was killed. It was also acknowledged by the judge in the preliminary hearing. The Olands were up against a brick wall. They may not have been screaming, but they publicly have stood behind Dennis from the start.

I think it is obvious that the family realized early on that their first priority was to fight for DO through the investigation and trials by relying on their defense lawyers and the justice system.  Now they can turn their attention to who killed RO. 

But this will be difficult, if not impossible for the family.  The SJP will never admit that they may have arrested the wrong person. They will never cooperate and share information with any outside investigative team hired by the Oland's.  A family reward at this time, without SJP cooperation will be useless if tips aren't followed up on by LE.  Add to that, Crown prosecutors will never admit that they prosecuted the wrong guy.

It does appear that nobody seemed to care about poor Dick (and maybe they don't) but I can understand how their first priority was focused on Dennis. jmo









Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1829 on: July 19, 2019, 05:26:11 PM »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-decision-verdict-1.5215559?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

The judge's reasons for his ruling of not guilty are outlined in his full submission included in the above link. It is an eye-opener that every potential juror should read.

Assuming that he is correct in his reasoning to find DO not guilty, there is no way every juror in a purely circumstantial evidence trial is going to realize what constitutes reasonable doubt, or what circumstantial evidence is valid, or how to decide if the overall evidence is enough to fill in enough missing pieces in the puzzle to decide on a guilty verdict.

Reading his judgement confirms my long-held belief that ordinary jurors like me and you, cannot fully grasp this level of legality re reasonable doubt in a murder trial based on circumstantial evidence. I think all murder trials should be heard by judge alone. I realize that any judge who errs in his instructions to the jury is grounds for an appeal (as in DO's case). But there is no recourse if the jury alone gets it wrong, and the jury doesn't have to explain their reasons for their verdict, as a judge has to. It doesn't seem fair or logical to expect ordinary citizens to fully understand what a judge knows, and vote accordingly.  moo