Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 466925 times)

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1770 on: March 05, 2019, 05:49:56 PM »
After the first trial at which, as you point out, Cape, he was not called as a witness, Gerry Lowe told reporters he had been at Thandi's on the night of the murder as well as the preceding night.  If he was like most of us, he may not have even heard what had happened until at least a couple of days after that.  (As I recall the story didn't hit the news until two days after Mr. Oland's death which is understandable).  I can appreciate why he would be unsure on which night he saw this individual.  There would likely be no particular reason (at the time) for him to remember.  I find it surprising that he noticed him at all.  I may just be using myself as an example. Unless there was something very specific about him that stood out or caught my eye, I very much doubt that I would.  Since he couldn't provide a description, that doesn't seem to have been the case.

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1771 on: March 06, 2019, 07:40:14 AM »
I was trying to find the info about Dennis’s mom finding the log book in the back room of her home, the next morning....but when I found a post where I referred back to REPLY #197...those posts are all messed up.
How did the log book get there? 
Where did Dennis go after he went shopping with his wife the evening of Dicks murder?  Did he go home and stay home?
How did the log book end up at moms? Didn’t Dennis have it at the office?
...have to go with the forensics because the witness accounts are too unreliable...as they very often can be.   Even Dennis can’t remember what jacket he was wearing that night.
But there really wasn’t that much blood on Dennis’s coat...granted....but could he have had some kind of shield?
A towel?
And if some of the blows were struck when Dick was on the floor...there really should have been blood on The perps shoes and pant legs..
It is puzzling due to the lack of blood on Dennis...but enough to wonder how blood can get up his sleeve.
Did he follow a certain schedule, whereas the dry cleaning was taken in the same day each week...or was it more random?
The cleaning was taken in on the next day or two (depending on what article you read).....and Dennis couldn’t remember what suit jacket he wore the day his father was murdered? 
And, we expect others to remember details?  Or...did Dennis lie?
Too bad there was not enough precautions taken to secure the crime scene...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:16:23 AM by jobo »

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1772 on: March 06, 2019, 09:31:33 AM »
He brought it home to his mom's house after his visit to his father's office that night, jobo.   According to him, after the shopping he and his wife went home.  He did a little gardening, fed the chickens, they watched part of a DVD and retired for the night.  I don't recall at which point he said he returned the log book but I seem to remember he left it in her hallway so I'm assuming it was likely late at night and he didn't want to disturb her (either that, or she wasn't home).  He's testifying today (at least he's scheduled to) so I would expect he'll give an account again of what he did and when.

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1773 on: March 06, 2019, 09:50:39 AM »
Sorry, jobo.  I didn't see the rest of your post.  I've read two books on the subject of Mr. Oland's murder (both of which were very good by the way) and from what I understand from one of them, his shirts were taken to that dry-cleaner on a regular basis but the jacket had not been cleaned there previously.  If so, that may or may not be relevant.  He had purchased it in Florida apparently (his testimony) some time before but perhaps he hadn't felt the need to have it cleaned or perhaps he had taken it somewhere else.  I tend to believe him regarding the colour of the jacket he was wearing on the fateful day because he really had nothing to gain by lying and it was so easy to verify.  I don't think he pays a great deal of attention to detail.  His testimony both at the preliminary hearing(s) and first trial had many inconsistencies but I expect him to do a much better job this time.

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1774 on: March 06, 2019, 01:53:42 PM »
Thanks, RubyRose!
I’m still concerned about when the log book was returned though, because there is no definite answer...Dennis should be able to answer that question...I hope they ask him.
I think it’s an important question too...because if Dennis was out late that night returning the log book, (unbeknownst to his mom until the next morning)... then in reality, he could have been hiding the murder weapon, and any blood stained items...he could have been doing anything.

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1775 on: March 06, 2019, 02:25:59 PM »
That's quite possible, jobo.  He would have had ample time and opportunity to do any of these things but I'll be very surprised if the truth of what happened is ever known.

I haven't been following this trial as closely as I did the first one.  Only when something sort of jumps our and grabs my attention.  I am looking forward to hearing Dennis' testimony this time around, though.  I hope it doesn't turn out to be a disappointment.  I waited all day yesterday to hear what the Defence expert witness had to say about cell phone roaming errors and then because of a dispute with the Crown, they decided not to call him.  That was a bit of a let-down because I was quite interested in that particular testimony.  As for the rest, I expect the verdict is a foregone conclusion.


Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1776 on: March 06, 2019, 06:35:17 PM »
Thanks, RubyRose!
I’m still concerned about when the log book was returned though, because there is no definite answer...Dennis should be able to answer that question...I hope they ask him.
I think it’s an important question too...because if Dennis was out late that night returning the log book, (unbeknownst to his mom until the next morning)... then in reality, he could have been hiding the murder weapon, and any blood stained items...he could have been doing anything.

Dennis returned the log book to his mother's house the next morning. It became part of a search warrant since it was placed in RO's office by his secretary before she left work the day of the murder. Testing showed no blood on it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dennis-oland-tells-jury-he-didnt-kill-his-father/article27540915/



DO's reason for taking the suit and several shirts to the cleaners was to have clean clothes for RO's funeral.

Dennis was put under police surveillance immediately after leaving his interview at the station, the day RO's body was found. So he would have had to dispose of the murder weapon the evening of the murder or the next morning.  He said he was gardening---LE dug at his property; he said he went to the pier--LE did dive searches; he said the next day he went to his wife's boat--LE searched the boat.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-investigation-dna-derek-1.3292157

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 06:46:52 PM by Have faith »

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1777 on: March 06, 2019, 07:55:10 PM »
Thanks, Have faith....Dennis never gave his mom the log book though, did he? Didn’t he just leave it in the sun porch or something? Sorry, but I can’t seem to find any pertinent articles when I look back through this thread.
One big problem is that Dick’s body wasn’t found until the following morning, by his secretary...so,No one was aware of any wrongdoing until the next morning...except the perp.
So no one suspected anything...

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1778 on: March 06, 2019, 09:16:42 PM »
Thanks, Have faith....Dennis never gave his mom the log book though, did he? Didn’t he just leave it in the sun porch or something? Sorry, but I can’t seem to find any pertinent articles when I look back through this thread.
One big problem is that Dick’s body wasn’t found until the following morning, by his secretary...so,No one was aware of any wrongdoing until the next morning...except the perp.
So no one suspected anything...

My recall is the same as Ruby's in that he left the log book on a hallway table, and there was no mention that he saw or spoke to his mother.

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1779 on: March 07, 2019, 07:36:13 AM »
Here I go again...lol
Was it normal behaviour for Dick to not come home at night and not check in with his wife?
I know he had a mistress, but he didn’t communicate with his wife every day? 
Did she NOT expect him home that night?  I guess I can answer that and say that she did not expect him home that night...so, then, no one would be wondering where he was.
Hmmm.
behind mansion walls are some very strange marriages....

Edited to add:  I understand lie detectors aren’t admissible in court....but who, close to Dick, had lie detectors done?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 10:43:24 AM by jobo »

capeheart

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1780 on: March 07, 2019, 12:10:25 PM »
jobo, I believe that this mistress was in the picture for quite some time. So his wife may have been used to late hours of his arriving at home and after all he was a very high profile business man and they always seem to work long hours and not join the supper table. It is very unusual that the person that killed the victim came with the intent to do so. I do believe it was premeditated, in the fact that if things did not turn out the way they wanted, they came with a weapon to commit murder.  They had the quick thinking to take the cell phone and also the weapon, after committing the crime. They or he may have not been aware of others in the building, below the office of Dick Oland.  Whomever killed Dick Oland, had a plan, preparing to commit murder if they couldn't get what they wanted. Most of the evidence is circumstantial in this case against Dennis O'land, no weapon, no cell phone, no eye witness. The evidence of blood on a jacket inside sleeve, is that enough to get a verdict in this new trial. You'd have to be sitting there listening to the trial and get a real feel of what was happening there. It is hard to know with tidbits of this and that what will happen this time around.  Another week or more on evidence and then that will be the defense resting it's case. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 12:20:06 PM by capeheart »

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1781 on: March 07, 2019, 12:26:03 PM »
Here I go again...lol
Was it normal behaviour for Dick to not come home at night and not check in with his wife?
I know he had a mistress, but he didn’t communicate with his wife every day? 
Did she NOT expect him home that night?  I guess I can answer that and say that she did not expect him home that night...so, then, no one would be wondering where he was.
Hmmm.
behind mansion walls are some very strange marriages....

Edited to add:  I understand lie detectors aren’t admissible in court....but who, close to Dick, had lie detectors done?

From what I understand, jobo, they shared the same residence but other than that lived pretty much separate lives.  She may not even have been aware that he hadn't come home that night.  Or cared very much, for that matter.  You know the old saying "under the same roof does not necessarily mean under the same ceiling".

I seem to recall she told police she thought he was out of town on business but could be wrong about that.

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1782 on: March 07, 2019, 12:32:36 PM »
jobo, I believe that this mistress was in the picture for quite some time. So his wife may have been used to late hours of his arriving at home and after all he was a very high profile business man and they always seem to work long hours and not join the supper table. It is very unusual that the person that killed the victim came with the intent to do so. I do believe it was premeditated, in the fact that if things did not turn out the way they wanted, they came with a weapon to commit murder.  They had the quick thinking to take the cell phone and also the weapon, after committing the crime. They or he may have not been aware of others in the building, below the office of Dick Oland.  Whomever killed Dick Oland, had a plan, preparing to commit murder if they couldn't get what they wanted. Most of the evidence is circumstantial in this case against Dennis O'land, no weapon, no cell phone, no eye witness. The evidence of blood on a jacket inside sleeve, is that enough to get a verdict in this new trial. You'd have to be sitting there listening to the trial and get a real feel of what was happening there. It is hard to know with tidbits of this and that what will happen this time around.  Another week or more on evidence and then that will be the defense resting it's case. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.

I think it's quite possible, cape, that the murder weapon was already on the premises.  An office adjacent to Mr. Oland's  had recently been renovated and therein might lie the answer.

The owner and Mr Oland's staff did not believe there was a drywall hammer (if that's what was used) on the premises but I think there likely could have been.

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1783 on: March 08, 2019, 02:08:55 AM »
I’ve read a few articles, now, on the re-trial.
The (so called) witnesses admit they are struggling with concrete memory of the day Dick was murdered...and yet...Dennis is easily explaining away his movements that day and he “forgot” what jacket he was wearing and “forgot” how many times he went to Dicks office....he was very busy...was all over the goddammy town that evening.
I am more apt to forgive these witnesses than I am to Dennis for lack of accurate memory.

The cell phone evidence is interesting...last ping in Rothesay...only thing taken from Dicks office.
Probably has been destroyed and hidden, with the murder weapon...and whatever was used/worn to protect clothes from blood spatter.
Wonder if forensics ever confiscated the secretaries clothes to see if she ever got blood on them from Dicks head scabs...that’s how blood got on Dennis jacket, according to Dennis.

Did they search mom’s property? A sniffer dog would have been able to trace Dennis’s steps...he says he returned the log book...but he left it and didn’t visit....
Instead of wanting to clear his name....Dennis (and his mom) should be yelling loud and clear that the killer is still loose.
Haven’t heard that...





RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1784 on: March 08, 2019, 11:32:51 AM »
I’ve read a few articles, now, on the re-trial.
The (so called) witnesses admit they are struggling with concrete memory of the day Dick was murdered...and yet...Dennis is easily explaining away his movements that day and he “forgot” what jacket he was wearing and “forgot” how many times he went to Dicks office....he was very busy...was all over the goddammy town that evening.
I am more apt to forgive these witnesses than I am to Dennis for lack of accurate memory.

The cell phone evidence is interesting...last ping in Rothesay...only thing taken from Dicks office.
Probably has been destroyed and hidden, with the murder weapon...and whatever was used/worn to protect clothes from blood spatter.
Wonder if forensics ever confiscated the secretaries clothes to see if she ever got blood on them from Dicks head scabs...that’s how blood got on Dennis jacket, according to Dennis.

Did they search mom’s property? A sniffer dog would have been able to trace Dennis’s steps...he says he returned the log book...but he left it and didn’t visit....
Instead of wanting to clear his name....Dennis (and his mom) should be yelling loud and clear that the killer is still loose.
Haven’t heard that...

I had never even considered that possibility, jobo.  If such a search ever took  place, I'm not aware that it ever made the news and I think it likely would have.  Since she wasn't a suspect, for one thing, I don't know if police would have any reasonable expectation of obtaining a search warrant although I don't believe he was a registered owner of the boat and they were able to search that.  To give Dennis credit, I'm not sure he would involve his mother in something like that even if she were to know nothing about it.  Still, I suppose nothing can be ruled out.  It's certainly worth thinking about.

I still believe him regarding his testimony about the jacket but, once again, I found details in his account of his three visits to the office that I found somewhat implausible.

It's unfortunate the Defence decided after their dispute with the Crown not to call the expert cell phone witness.  I had based much of my opinion on the previous verdict on the cell phone evidence and was keenly interested in what this witness had to say.  A lot of the rest is really just so much smoke and mirrors.  There had been much hype from the Defence around the appearance of this witness and since he wasn't called, it leaves me, at least, with the impression that his testimony may not, in total, have been all that favourable to Dennis.  Given the obvious police blunders and the perceived weak case of the Crown, I'm left wondering, why were they so worried?