Author Topic: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John  (Read 458374 times)

jobo

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1755 on: February 28, 2019, 01:17:39 AM »
I think it’s understandable Ainsworth had to give a general range of time when he heard the noises.
Although I get this nasty feeling Dennis is going to walk..in my opinion, There is only one explaination for Richard’s bloodstains to be up the sleeve of Dennis’s suit jacket (the jacket he didn’t remember wearing,but was proven he was wearing it)
MURDER

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1756 on: February 28, 2019, 12:52:17 PM »
I think it’s understandable Ainsworth had to give a general range of time when he heard the noises.

 I don't find it "understandable" that Ainsworth changed his original statements of the timing he heard RO being murdered. I also think that it would be easier for him to narrow down the time span closer to the time when he had a customer (8.11pm) as he originally did, than to add two hours before that event. Unlike his friend Anthony Shaw, I don't find Ainsworth credible.

I believe Ainsworth changed the timing after he also testified (7:30-8:00) at the preliminary hearing, but I can't find the reference to that.

"When Ainsworth and Shaw spoke to police at the scene on the morning of July 7, 2011, shortly after the victim's body was discovered, they both indicated the noises were at "8ish," according to the officer's notes, the retrial has heard."

".... a videotaped statement made under oath by Ainsworth in 2011 for a private investigator working for the Oland family and entered into evidence on Friday, makes it clear that originally, Ainsworth also thought the sounds were made at 7:30 to 8 p.m."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-evidence-in-oland-retrial-relates-to-men-who-heard-thumping-noises-coming-from-victim-s-office-1.5026725
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/canada/defence-lawyer-raises-new-questions-about-timing-of-richard-olands-killing-286590/

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1757 on: March 01, 2019, 10:23:03 PM »
Ainsworth's court comments and tweets around his belief of Dennis's guilt were so strong that they seem to me to be angry and emotional commentary rather than the objective musings of a bystander. I suspect that he is quite upset that his long time tenant's murder will not be avenged, and worse, and as he said in court, he feels a lot of guilt himself as had he acted when he heard the loud thumps the murderer may well have been apprehended. On the other hand, his claim that he and Shaw 'probably' talked on the phone the day after the murder and that upon months (years?) of reflection he believed that this chat influenced him into accepting Shaw's view of thump's timing for his earlier testimony and conversations is not implausible.  It does, however, seem to be an awfully convenient reflection given his strong emotions over the verdicts to date. Arthur Gold had the testimony around this phone conversation shut down by the judge.

     

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1758 on: March 02, 2019, 09:47:25 PM »
The following is also very interesting;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-saint-john-1.4968298

The defence has asked for new disclosure after the testimony of a retired Saint John police officer Monday at Dennis Oland's murder retrial in the death of his father more than seven years ago.
Former staff sergeant Mike King testified that on July 8, 2011 — the day after Richard Oland's bludgeoned body was discovered in his office at 52 Canterbury St. — officers called him to a possible related incident at a nearby apartment building at 147 Germain St.

The glass of the back door had been broken, there was blood in the sink and they found an old, small "claw hammer" in an open garage, said King.

King, a former roofer who had observed "the holes in the top of [the victim's] head," believed a roofer's hatchet, also known as a drywall hammer, may have been used to kill him, the court heard.

The hand-held tools typically have a bevelled hammer head with a waffle design "like a meat tenderizer" on one side and a sharp axe on the other side, he said.


The major crime unit investigated the break-in and determined it occurred after the Oland homicide and was unrelated, said King.
But lead defence lawyer Alan Gold told the court it was the first time the defence or Crown had heard about the incident and pointed out King didn't know how investigators made that determination.


King could not say, for example, how soon after the homicide it occurred or whether they tested the blood to see if it matched Oland's, said Gold.


...…..(how sloppy can these officers be?  They could have checked to see if the blood matched Dennis dna, as well as his Dad's - if only to exclude it.  ) jb



BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1759 on: March 03, 2019, 01:26:45 AM »
The following is also very interesting;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-saint-john-1.4968298

The defence has asked for new disclosure after the testimony of a retired Saint John police officer Monday at Dennis Oland's murder retrial in the death of his father more than seven years ago.
Former staff sergeant Mike King testified that on July 8, 2011 — the day after Richard Oland's bludgeoned body was discovered in his office at 52 Canterbury St. — officers called him to a possible related incident at a nearby apartment building at 147 Germain St.

The glass of the back door had been broken, there was blood in the sink and they found an old, small "claw hammer" in an open garage, said King.

King, a former roofer who had observed "the holes in the top of [the victim's] head," believed a roofer's hatchet, also known as a drywall hammer, may have been used to kill him, the court heard.

The hand-held tools typically have a bevelled hammer head with a waffle design "like a meat tenderizer" on one side and a sharp axe on the other side, he said.


The major crime unit investigated the break-in and determined it occurred after the Oland homicide and was unrelated, said King.
But lead defence lawyer Alan Gold told the court it was the first time the defence or Crown had heard about the incident and pointed out King didn't know how investigators made that determination.


King could not say, for example, how soon after the homicide it occurred or whether they tested the blood to see if it matched Oland's, said Gold.


...…..(how sloppy can these officers be?  They could have checked to see if the blood matched Dennis dna, as well as his Dad's - if only to exclude it.  ) jb

After this story was published and disclosure given to the defence they agreed that this particular break-in happened after the day of the murder-

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-ainsworth-dna-1.5026725


The Crown and defence also submitted several agreed statements of fact into evidence on Thursday. One of them involved a break and enter near the crime scene that came up in testimony earlier in the retrial. Police were called to 147 Germain St. on July 8, 2011, regarding a glass back door being broken and blood being found in the sink. An old, small "claw hammer" was also found in an open garage, the court had heard.

"The break and enter turned out to have nothing to do with the murder of Richard Oland as it's clear in the [Saint John police] file the break and enter could not have occurred prior to July 7," said Knee, reading the agreed statement aloud.


and to the Shaw/Ainsworth phone conversation I mentioned above, from the same page-


It was only around 3:30 p.m., when someone called him, that he learned it was a homicide.

The revelation had a "dramatic" effect on him, he said. "I realized how much more significant the time element of when the noises were."

"What if anything did you do with this new information?" asked lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot.

"I think I got a hold of [Shaw] to tell him."
Anthony Shaw testifed at Dennis Oland's murder retrial on Jan. 30. (CBC)

When Veniot asked Ainsworth if he was "able to provide any additional information," lead defence lawyer Alan Gold asked for Ainsworth to be excused from the courtroom and questioned the relevance of the Veniot's line of questioning.

"I was trying to determine whether — and perhaps it's not an important question — about whether or not that discussion had affected his timeline at all," said Veniot.

Gold objected, stressing the importance of Ainsworth's evidence about time and suggesting he will be cross-examined about prior inconsistent statements.

He said Justice Terrence Morrison should also know that the new disclosure the defence received is "regarding supposed conversations between this man and Shaw on the occasion the Crown was getting into."

Gold also pointed out the defence did not have the disclosure when Shaw was cross-examined.

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1760 on: March 03, 2019, 04:07:07 PM »
So, does Ainsworth and Shaw now agree on the timeline?  If so, what is it?

Thanks.   Very confusing to me.


jb

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1761 on: March 03, 2019, 05:22:47 PM »
Only in that they heard the noise above them some time between 6:00 and 8:00 PM, jellybean.  Ainsworth says he can't be more specific than that and Shaw testified around 7:30-7:45 (at which time Dennis is seen on the videotape shopping with his wife in Rothesay).  The only thing that is known for sure is that the fax is time-stamped at 8:11.  Ainsworth says his original estimate was based on his conversations with Shaw but on reflection he can't be sure of the time.  I'm not really prepared to entirely disbelieve him.

I feel sorry for them.  Both have said they've thought about little else over the past eight years and I imagine they will continue to do so for the rest of their lives.  You're not about to let go of something as traumatic as possibly hearing someone being murdered particularly in such a cowardly, gruesome way.  Even though there was nothing they could have done about it at the time, I would imagine it stills weighs heavily on them.  I know it would if it were me.

It doesn't help either that they must relive it every time they are questioned about it, read something in the paper, etc etc

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1762 on: March 03, 2019, 05:30:57 PM »
So, does Ainsworth and Shaw now agree on the timeline?  If so, what is it?

Thanks.   Very confusing to me.


jb

Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. The CBC tweets have the details. Ainsworth said on the stand that when he called Shaw he was thinking that Dick had died of natural causes and was shocked Shaw said it was murder. He realized then that the thumps sound timeline was important and when they discussed their timing he accepted Shaw's belief as he hadn't really thought it through. According to his testimony, over the months following the first trial he said rethought the timeline, believing that his earlier testimony was influenced by the Shaw conversation and in honesty could not be as specific as he previously had been. Under cross, Gold gave him a very hard time about this supposed call, and brought up Ainsworths's numerous social media posts around Dennis's guilt, implying the change in his story arose from his need for justice versus a true change in his recollection. It was a heated exchange on the stand.     

Edit:   Oops, beaten to it again by Ruby, and not the first time!

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1763 on: March 03, 2019, 05:52:59 PM »
No problem, BaySailor.  You explained it much better than I did.  I think jellybean will understand now.

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1764 on: March 03, 2019, 08:39:24 PM »
I have trouble with Ainsworth's later explanation of how he was "influenced" by Shaw as to the timing of the thuds. He arrived at work the next morning to see the building and area overtaken with cops cars. He tried to go up to RO's office and was stopped by a cop who said he wasn't allowed to enter. He was asked if he heard or saw anything suspicious from the day before, and he said yes, he heard the thuds coming from RO's office. He said it was "around 8ish" pm.

Any reasonable person seeing the police presence, and being denied access to the building, and being asked if he heard anything suspicious would think that this was a crime scene. Just like RO's mistress who drove by at the same time and saw the all the cop cars knew that something horrible had happened to RO. Yet Ainsworth, who was directed to the police station to give a formal statement, is saying he thought all through that process, and all day long that Dick maybe had a heart attack until he heard at 3:30 that he was murdered. Seriously, that his excuse for later changing the time--he didn't know DO was murdered when he gave the original time, and it took him years to realize how important that time was...so he added two hours before his and Shaw's reported time .

The only person I feel sorry for is Anthony Shaw. I can't imagine what he must feel knowing his good friend is lying in a murder trial. moo



« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 09:08:36 PM by Have faith »

BaySailor

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1765 on: March 03, 2019, 09:36:59 PM »
Very well said Have Faith.

Have faith

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1766 on: March 04, 2019, 11:46:48 AM »
TY BaySailor. 

jellybean

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1767 on: March 04, 2019, 02:00:24 PM »
I recall that the secretary who discovered the body, ran down to the printing shop and told them that Dick  had been murdered, and  that she stayed there until police arrived.

Different stories.... or did I dream it?

jb

RubyRose

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1768 on: March 04, 2019, 02:29:41 PM »
As I recall, jellybean, she realized immediately that there was something wrong but as soon as she saw a body lying near the desk she went downstairs to request assistance from one of the employees of Printing Plus (not Mr. Ainsworth - I don't know if he was even on the premises at the time - or Mr. Shaw who did not work there).  I don't believe Mrs Adamson went past the doorway of the office so she would have no way of knowing what had happened and the other gentleman said he did not examine the body.  The first responders testified they were not aware initially that the death was a possible homicide.

Sad situation for all those folks.  Mrs Adamson appears to be doing well enough (at least as far as we know - she's retired now - I doubt she escaped unscathed though).  In his victim impact statement from the first trial, Mr Chiasson, the employee who assisted her, admitted, not surprisingly, that he now suffers from PTSD,   

capeheart

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Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
« Reply #1769 on: March 05, 2019, 04:55:29 PM »
Just commenting on the CTV news report today on the witness for the defense MLA gentleman. He indicated he was in the restaurant directly across the street the evening in question. He indicated he saw someone leaving the building in question. However, he did not say anything about the identity of the person.  In the fact that he and his wife dine there quite frequently, he was questioned as to if he was sure it was that evening that he saw someone coming out of the building. His answer then was, he couldn't be sure because it was eight years ago and a lot of time has gone by.  However, in my opinion only, if I had supper at a restaurant and a murder occurred the same evening, across the street, I damned well would remember it. If I found out the next day after dining out that a well known business man was murdered across the street, I would be freaking out. I certainly would try and recall the events of the evening and would surely comment on it.  I just find this out of the ordinary.  Maybe he didn't see Dennis, he could have seen some other person and doesn't want to identify him because he is afraid.  He must have been on a list before of witnesses, because he did not testify in the first trial.  It would be interesting to know what he saw.  Maybe he would agree to go under hypnosis. I know I am a real Agatha Christie here, but that would be very valuable information to the accused's case. I believe that the witness saw and knows who the person was, whether it was Dennis or someone else, I believe he doesn't want to have such an important role as identifying the possible killer, because it may hinge on his testimony of deciding the case. :o :o :o :o :o :o
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:10:26 PM by capeheart »