Author Topic: 2 Children Stabbed 46 times by Father Guy Turcotte | Sent to hospital not jail  (Read 18733 times)

Concerned

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Yes. Wonder how safe the ex wife is. And all the future patients. And the hospital he practices in. And all the people he will work with. And the precedent he will set. Bad decisions all the way around. Not to mention if they let him out, the lives of two innocent children didn't really matter then, did they?

leonagleant

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Do these jokers who declare a person who murdered his kids "the ideal candidate for release" think they have a crystal ball or something? How many times have we heard someone posed no danger to society only to have them reoffend. Having no memory of murdering his own two children certainly does not make him any saner or safer a person and common sense alone will tell you that. We all might want to snap one day and throw something across the room, but that is a far cry from stabbing our children 46 times.



Have faith

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I can't find a ruling on the motion, explained below, whereby the Crown requested the trial judge to grant an order to collect a DNA sample from Guy Turcotte.  Any DNA is destroyed if the killer is found not criminally responsible due to a mental disorder.  The fact that this is the  first time in Canada, that the Crown has made this request, means that even the most vile and brutal killers, like serial killers Russell Johnson, Christian Magee etc., who were found not criminally responsible, are NOT in the National DNA Data Bank.  Hopefully, they will never be released.

My opinion is that Guy Turcotte killed his children in an act of revenge against his wife.  This particular motive underlies many murders related to broken relationships and custody battles.  What better way to get back at the partner who has left you?  If he truly is insane, and released this quickly, his wife and her new husband are in extreme danger IMO.

HF







 The London Free Press, Sat. July 7/12. by Eric Thibault for QMI  Agency, Montreal.  It was listed under "Court" and the title is "Child killer's DNA order would set precedent".


Killer ex-doctor Guy Turcotte could be become the first Canadian ordered to provide a DNA sample to the national criminal data base despite being found not criminally responsible for his crimes.

Turcotte, 40, has been held in a Montreal mental hospital since he was found not criminally responsible last summer of stabbing his two young children to death in 2009.

Trial judge Marc David is considering written arguments in the DNA request a year after presiding over the controversial verdict.  If he grants the motion this fall, Turcotte would be added to the RCMP's National DNA Data Bank.  The registry holds the DNA of 300,000 Canadian criminals.


The defence is contesting the motion, arguing Truscotte can't be considered a criminal because a jury failed to convict him of stabbing son Olivier,5, and daughter Anne-Sophie, 3.

But the Crown says the not-criminally responsible verdict does not constitute an absolute acquittal.
Turcotte admitted killing his kids in February 2009 as his marriage to estranged wife and fellow doctor Isabelle Gaston crumbled.  But he says he blacked out and doesn't remember the details.  he told his murder trial that he had grown despondent after he found out gaston was having an affair with a mutual friend.

The 11 jurors accepted the defence's argument that Turcotte suffered from depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies.  They acquitted him of two counts of first-degree murder, provoking outrage.

Legal expert Robert La Haye calls the DNA request being considered by judge David a Canadian first. "The Criminal Code says that in the case of a non-responsible verdict, the judge may make this (DNA) ruling if he's satisfied that it would serve the best interest of justice" the veteran criminal lawyer said.



Concerned

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Isn't that something. Not present at the trial to hear all the arguments for or against. But, the mother was there. In the least, if he has any remorse, wouldn't you think out of respect to those children's lost lives that he would have shown up in court. They were his children, after all. And, they were grotesquely murdered. And, he can't show up at the trial and face whatever is said in court?

This case has always been so incredibly sad, and so incredibly bizarre.


Guy Turcotte, doctor found NCR for kids' deaths, back in court

Sidhartha Banerjee, The Canadian Press
Published Monday, September 30, 2013 6:30AM EDT
Last Updated Monday, September 30, 2013 6:34PM EDT

MONTREAL -- Quebec's highest court has heard the appeal of a controversial verdict given to a Quebec doctor who was freed less than four years after stabbing his children to death.
Now Guy Turcotte is waiting to learn whether three judges will agree with the Crown that he should face a new trial in the 2009 stabbing deaths of his son Olivier and daughter Anne-Sophie.
The Quebec Court of Appeal judges will rule eventually on whether the high-profile case should return to court for a new trial.
 
Guy Turcotte holds his daughter Anne-Sophie in an undated handout photo. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Montreal La Presse/HO)
Turcotte was not present at the courthouse as the Crown outlined the reasons why the not-criminally-responsible verdict should be annulled and a new trial ordered in a criminal case that has prompted public outrage.
During his highly publicized murder trial, Guy Turcotte admitted to repeatedly stabbing his kids, but he denied criminal intent.
The children were stabbed 46 times by Turcotte in what he described as a blackout-filled night. He testified that he only remembered the evening in flashes.
The trial heard from numerous witnesses, including Turcotte himself. Medical experts for the defence testified he was suffering from the mental effects of the breakup of his marriage to Isabelle Gaston, who had left him weeks earlier for her personal trainer, a friend of the couple.
The not-criminally-responsible verdict was one of four the jury weighed. It meant Turcotte was unable to know, at the time, that he was doing something wrong.
It's a verdict that should not have been on the table, the Crown contends. Michel Pennou, who did not work the original case but argued the appeal on Monday, said the judge failed to properly instruct the jury.
Turcotte drank washer fluid later that evening in 2009 in what he says was an attempt to kill himself. Pennou said a not-criminally-responsible verdict should be reserved for cases of mental illness, not ones where a suicide attempt might have triggered an after-the-fact blackout.
Under questioning from the chief justice of the appeal court, Nicole Duval Hesler, about why the Crown didn't raise some of its points during the trial, Pennou conceded it was a mistake.
Pennou told the judges that just because the Crown made an oversight didn't mean the judges should repeat it. He said the judge also erred in leaving the not-criminally-responsible verdict available as a possible option for the jury.
The defence has denied those arguments, contending that the Crown had plenty of time to raise objections before the jury went into deliberations.
Lawyer Pierre Poupart said both sides agreed to the parameters of the trial and the Crown knew what was at stake when the not-criminally-responsible defence was introduced during what he called a "long, arduous, demanding" trial.
He said the jury came to a reasonable verdict and it was important the appeals court not be used as an unofficial 13th juror.
The case helped spur new federal legislation aimed at making it harder for those found not criminally responsible to gain their freedom.
Turcotte was eventually deemed fit for release from a mental institution, where he'd stayed following the verdict, after only 46 months in custody since the slayings.
The Crown wants a new trial on the original charges: two counts of first-degree murder.
The defence says the court should reject the appeal, but that any new trial should be on the much-reduced charge of manslaughter.
Turcotte's ex-wife, Isabelle Gaston, sat in the front row with her mother Monday, listening to the Crown and scribbling notes.
She told reporters she's had months to immerse herself in the arguments and jurisprudence, as part of what has become a personal mission for the emergency-room physician.
"It made me feel hope that this injustice will finally be corrected so it's a step forward for me," Gaston said of the Crown's attempt for a new trial.
She made clear that she won't accept anything less than the first-degree murder charges Turcotte initially faced.
"I'm confident," Gaston said.
"But I'll always be afraid, I think, because this process has not gone as expected from the beginning."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/guy-turcotte-doctor-found-ncr-for-kids-deaths-back-in-court-1.1476258
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 07:59:28 PM by Concerned »

me

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Basically, the court has set a precedent now, that you can exact revenge on an ex-partner and get off with a minor sentence by claiming stress induced black outs.  Really. Words fail

Concerned

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Worse yet, the revenge was taken out on his young, defenseless and innocent children. What kind of person does that?

Basically, the court has set a precedent now, that you can exact revenge on an ex-partner and get off with a minor sentence by claiming stress induced black outs.  Really. Words fail

Have faith

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His defense was based on him suffering a "black out" due to him earlier drinking windshield washer fluid in a suicide attempt.  The Crown blew this case, and so did the judge. 

http://poisoncontrol.uchc.edu/about_poisons/garage/articles/antifreeze_english.html

Have faith

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The original verdict has been overturned.  Turcotte faces a new trial.   :D  :D

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/guy-turcotte-s-verdict-overturned-by-quebec-court-of-appeal-1.2425176


Concerned

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TY, Have Faith - verdict overturned!

There has been so many wrongs in this very sad, horrible story:

  • Somebody "thought" to be mentally ill (if he even was/is) being housed (not even in jail) for only 46 months for murdering his own innocent, helpless children ruled not criminally responsible.
  • Instead of being ruled "mentally ill" he was then termed "blacked out" as if that is a proper excuse setting unbelievable precedent - and ruled not criminally responsible
  • Thought to be "intoxicated on windshield wiper fluid" as if that is a scientifically based and proper justification for killing children - and ruled not criminally responsible
  • Set free after 46 months in a ward, not even prison because he was an "ideal candidate for release" - leaving the remaining victim (the child's mother and the children's family) without justice, without children, full of fear - leaving society unprotected for the next time he "got upset," "enraged," or drank something he wasn't suppose to.

Did he admit to murdering HIS two children?

The article's only statement that pointed to an explanation - he wanted revenge on his wife for having an affair so he killed his innocent and helpless children viciously, senselessly and horribly. What? Again, who does that?

The lives of children are just as valuable as adults, and any citizen. Whether a child, adult or an animal being killed, especially to the extent of rage they were (how many stab wounds each? 27 and 19), is a crime. It should be treated as such. The sentence should reflect such.

Anything that does that to another - whether mentally ill, temporary insane, feigning mental illness or breakdown, "blacked-out," "intoxicated on windshield wiper fluid," or intoxicated on any item they willingly or knowingly took for that matter, should be held responsible for their actions, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and receive an appropriate sentence under the law for not one murder, but TWO.

The TWO children will never be able to live a beautiful life, contribute wonderfully to society. And, society needs to know that that is not acceptable, tolerated, or condoned - people killing our children. Overturning the verdict is a STEP back in the right direction.  (So, I have to ask...why wasn't he there when the ruling came down? If he doesn't have much to lose, it seems to be dangerous for this type of sentence to happen and they don't know where he is. They are waiting for him to turn himself in? Prayers for the children's family for being victimized, over, and over, and over again. The crime and the years that followed must be just horrible for them.

To Sophie and Olivier...we can only hope that the system works towards a resolve that would most likely deter any other child from senseless brutality.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 06:14:30 PM by Concerned »

plush

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I just don't understand!! So sad and so sick!

rebelgirl

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I'm a little confused here...

If I'm depressed and I choose to go out and drink windshield washer fluid to commit suicide...I not criminally responsible for what happens AFTER I made the choice to drink a substance that MAY change my personality or thought process....

BUT ...
If I am depressed and I go out and choose to drink enough alcohol that it could possibly change my personality and thought process...my choices make me responsible  ::)

 ...and alcohol doesn't make a viable defense in murder cases (not that I think it should).