Author Topic: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)  (Read 61488 times)

capeheart

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2008, 12:21:50 PM »
Well the timeline of Holly's disappearance would be very close to the first time the bank card was used. She probably went missing very close to her apartment, if there is any place there to put a body in the water or even in a remote location close to her apartment which would go unnoticed for years, that wasn't a route taken by persons. A field of some kind or some place like that. I feel her body is close to where she lived, that is what I think, because this story about her taking off and jumping out the car is something of a fairy tale, I believe. A lot of questions here on those two that were with her, the last to see her alive or have contact with her. Sure hope it does get solved.

Chris

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2008, 11:47:55 PM »
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because this story about her taking off and jumping out the car is something of a fairy tale

I think her presence in the car at all is far fetched. I cannot see a person taking her in there car after being clubbed in the head.

never_lose_hope

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2008, 10:31:21 AM »
I totally agree Chris, why would two people who've just had a dispute willingly get in a  car with each other.. I find it hard to believe.

Shwa

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2008, 12:21:18 PM »
"I find it hard to believe."

Not me.  I have been attacked by a very sick person and had to do something to get that person help because the violence was a direct result of their illness.  In my case, the attacks were the result of severe paranoid delusions of the schizophrenia type.  Anyone that has a loved one that has schizophrenia would understand.  I also know of others in this boat who have had to deal with mentally ill or severely intoxicate friends or family.

I suspect it happens far more often than is publicised.  Because such attacks could be emabarassing, stigmatizing or carry a measure of shame to themselves or their loved one people are likely not going to advertise it too often.

As for the specifics in this case, the word "clubbing' might be somewhat subjective and be the result of incomplete information.  The "clubbing" might have actually been just a swing at someone, a slight glancing blow or a connecting blow that was somehow warded so that it did not cause a great deal of pain or damage.

Just my thoughts...


Chris

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2008, 04:55:41 PM »
I don't think 90% of people would feel that way, I know I would not. I have been around paranoid people and undersdtand that you cannot just ask them to switch it off. Plus I do not see how she would have let fo of her bank card, even schizophrenia does not casue people to lose control over personal possesions.

Shwa

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2008, 09:21:08 PM »
"...even schizophrenia does not casue people to lose control over personal possesions."

My experience with schizophrenics is that when they are in their bizarre state, they do not perceive personal property in the same we do.  In fact, I know some that would throw stuff away or destroy it for some inner reason known only to them.

Chris

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2008, 09:33:44 PM »
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they do not perceive personal property in the same we do

I've always sensed personal property takes on a stronger meaning.

also weird how they got the pin number.

Was this girl in fact a schizophrenic? From the show, it seemed she was just very distressed.

Shwa

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2008, 05:40:26 AM »
I don't know if she was a diagnosed schiziphrenic or not, but from her friends comments she seemed to be in a heckava lot of mental stress - enough that, if we beleive the story, her close friends thought she should be in a hospital.

Chris

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2008, 04:44:02 PM »
yes, that does seem to be the case. I guess on the other side of the arugment, it would be very hard for 2 people to hold a secret this long considering they are not that close anymore. One would have broken down by now you'd think.

I hope this mystery is solved one day, I sure would like to know what really happened.

Adrian

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2008, 06:10:38 PM »
 :) :)

Shwa:
"I find it hard to believe."

Not me.  I have been attacked by a very sick person and had to do something to get that person help because the violence was a direct result of their illness.  In my case, the attacks were the result of severe paranoid delusions of the schizophrenia type.  Anyone that has a loved one that has schizophrenia would understand.  I also know of others in this boat who have had to deal with mentally ill or severely intoxicate friends or family.

I suspect it happens far more often than is publicised.  Because such attacks could be emabarassing, stigmatizing or carry a measure of shame to themselves or their loved one people are likely not going to advertise it too often.
******************************************

I agree totally with the above comments from Shwa. With schizophrenia, in my family, the voices they hear are not always good. It causes anger, at times, as well as paranoia.Also their possessions, at times, mean nothing to them.Like shampoo, baths, etc..and the house is often cluttered. Sometimes it is to the opposite extreme.

What I am hearing here, is that she may have left to disappear, or suicide. I don't know.She may also be Bi Polar, it is so hard to say.Did she have a history of suicide? We know she was loved/cared for, but was she independent?

I hope she is found, and returns to her family for support. Wonder if she had her meds.A lot of schizophrenic people, do not like to take there meds, they think the Doctor should. So will lie, and of course, the visual, or audio hallucinations come back.Delusions set in, and they believe them.

A lot of these people, become our homeless, and they will try to self medicate, RE: Pot, Booze, sometimes other drugs. She could be in a hospital, or received help, and isn't ready to call home.PS Also a deep depression can at times mimic schizophrenia.

The note she left at her Dad's house, may have stated her intentions.The police are probably asking him not to release it.

(when I became a missing person, I left a note. I called home a year later, and was told it was 1:00 in the morning, I called collect, and sounded drunk!) All was true. I was so scared to make that call. My mom slammed the phone down, and I never called back. I don't think any one looked for me for years, or if I was even declared missing.

Holly if you are out there, and read this, please contact your family or close friends.((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

never_lose_hope

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2008, 09:48:14 AM »
The note was released but police suspect it was in fact written earlier and likely not near the time of this disapearance they feel it was left their to distract police and make them think she left on her own accord which they now are confident is not the case. Her family fully believes that if she were alive she would have contacted someone by now and she was very close to her family even though at the time she was living seperately. Also they haven't implied by any means in any of the shows profiling the case that she suffered from schizophrenia, they have implied that she was at that age where she was struggling between being completely independent but than knowing she still needed her family for some things (like the ride to pick up her bank card). She had problems with her family in the past and had aggressive behaviour but I think this is pretty consistant with most teenagers. I unfortunately do not think she is a runaway... I'd love to believe and think she is but her mother (who knew her well) brought up the point that if she were going the run away she would have waited until the next day when she was to recieve her pay cheque of $900 or so and not leave when she had $90.00 in the bank.

They do know for a fact that Steven was the person who withdrew the money from the Galleria Mall in Buffalo, no debate they have this proven. I remain skeptical of how he got the pin and regardless after he knew she disappeared or "took off" why did he have the bank card? and how the hell did he get the pin? As troubled as Holly may sound I am skeptical she would have given away this information willingly and either way what right did he have to go and withdrawl this money and hang on to the card? Even if he was not the one responsible for Holly being missing he is very wrong to have stolen this money.

I truly wish there could just be closure to this case, it really drives me crazy thinking that there are just no answers.

lostlinganer

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2008, 01:31:05 PM »
First of all; this thread is all I've read or seen re. this case.  Here are the points that bother me about what I've read:
1.  She was still a teen; seems she was hanging out with some who were a bit older than herself ... they seem to have a lot going on among them .... unwritten!  who knows what! and whom!  and how serious!  ...apparently serious enough,- that this poor girl disappeared as a result of events.
2.  Scrye says; "Steven and Susan are not a couple and never were."  hmmmmmmm this guy Steven is hanging with Susan and Holly... pretty thickly, when he is driving Holly to pick up the bank card she'd left at work...must have been pretty important!...she only has about $90 in bank...pay is not in yet...(somebody/s must have been hoping it would be deposited soon because for some reason, this Steven and Susan managed to get the pin # out of the girl which would be really useful hours later, when $900 paycheck would become accessible.)
3.  This Susan person, being a spoiled rich girl -  female dog - person who looks out for number one, together with this older guy wouldn't have a hard time aggrevating a paranoit-schizophrenia type girl enough to have her screaming "here's my %#@! pin #..do what you want!"... (I knew a few people with this disorder and they can't stand somebody raising their voices and temper at them...make's their head ache I mean, let's face it, even if Holly was off drugs at this point, doesn't mean she no longer had affiliations with these biker types and maybe the Susan-Steven duo needed something badly or owed something seriously enough to push Holly into forking out her money, which they apparently were close enough to know she had a job and a big paycheck about to be deposited within hours...(or maybe Holly owed these two... we don't know what these two had going on...we only hear about Holly's past)....maybe there was a crowbar in this basement and the younger girl was trying to get herself and her bankcard out of there.
4.  If it was a truck they alleged she jumped from, why did police later search this Steven's car for evidence...why didn't they find this truck?...seems to me they had already gotten rid of her while they still had the truck!  and if they took her card and pin# from her, they wouldn't just let her bail out like that...they would be afraid she'd run to police. ...the only reason I can think of why they would search this Steven's car, is because Steven and Susan ditched the truck they were using and continued on with Steven's car.
5.  The idea of Holly being seen breaking into her own home through a back window could also have been someone in her clothes going back there for some other reason...like to get rid of something or find something....lots of reasons for the friends of other two to come up with something like this for example.

.....there's lots to this that the friend's of these two are hiding...that's my opinion.

Chris

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2008, 09:40:46 PM »
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.....there's lots to this that the friend's of these two are hiding...that's my opinion

I 100% agree. The facts are just not adding up.

lostlinganer

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2008, 08:20:50 PM »
My goodness Scrye; you sure know a lot about these people.  As I said at the beginning of my post, this thread is all I've read about this particular case.  I know I'm just thinking out loud about what I've read.  That's what we often do.  If you know all that, write it all up somewhere or on some site so your take on the story can be read... and then people might think different or throw out different ideas.  I thought that's what they do here ...throw in all kinds of scenarios.  If people  knew everything and everyone involved, then we wouldn't be trying to figure what possibilites are envolved.
Sorry if you are offended.
I have just modified the above because I had previously addressed never_lose_hope, when I checked again, it was Scrye I was replying too.  Sorry Scrye! and never_lose_hope.....!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 07:23:14 PM by lostlinganer »

Shwa

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Re: Holly Painter - Unsolved Murder \ Missing - Toronto (1995)
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2008, 06:01:06 AM »
Hey Scrye,

It is very useful to raise questions and get answers like you have provided.  No one sounds "pissy" just forthright.  I think the more facts people get, the more their questions can be useful and it is a sort of 'digging' into the truth trying to find some lead, some reason or rationale for why the events ended up as they have.

Question: did Steven or Susan use her bank card in Buffalo?