Author Topic: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!  (Read 9825 times)

Sleuth

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Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« on: September 19, 2010, 06:13:41 PM »

Woodland

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 08:30:09 PM »
What about making selling sex an offense?  Seems to me we are protecting perpetrators once again by not getting to the heart of the matter.

Buying sex happens long after the infrastructure is put in place.

Think I'll contact MP Joy Smith and mention she's half way there.

Concerned

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 09:01:56 PM »
I would love to applaud these efforts. To have someone win a position, on a promise, and work diligently to keep that promise is very refreshing and enlightening. Especially if some of the system may be set up to bring resistance. Let's face it, the world of human trafficking is a growing and unfortunately, lucrative market. Especially to those that already enjoy the drug trade network that is also established. The little guy off the street can get $900 per person referral, work on quotas to satisfiy an annual salary, and the higher ups, well...get more. This according to documents on the "worth" of a "referral." It is a hard read, and very unpleasant. And, you suddenly know that once you read such things you will never be the same.

So, to bring such a difficult topic that the public is either unaware of; can't wrap around until they are directly confronted with; or just can't accept because they want to live in a fairy-tale life without facing the unpleasant issues that are creeping up. Add to it that those in the trade have set up their networks. Their channels. Their figure-heads, and perhaps have infiltrated powerful positions that come in handy at crucial times when the heat is on them.

But with all new proposals, there are always points that stick out. I would like to address a few of them:

Human trafficking is not just for sex, or for labor. It is also for organs. I think it is important to include that fact. Sometimes I think people think sex trade is for young women, and now some young men. Or labor for those still viral enough to work hard, or too too young to have to pay. But with the organ trade, it seeks a wider group of individuals. Sometimes, people are not influenced to act until or if they think it will effect them or their family direct, unfortunately. With human trafficking expressed as an issue for sex, labor and organs it will pull more weight and more support. Where they may have to divide and go after the "Pimp Network" or the "Employment Firms" or the "Medical Clinics" they will have to divide the strategy, but the purpose is still the same. The organ trade gets immediately paid. No long term labor issues (people) to control so it is a viable threat. All three likely share similar networks so paying attention to all three issues at once will be needed.

Another suggestion is from watching the bawdy house or massage parlour raids. They arrest the onsie-twosie worker. And, there are complaints that they can't get the worker to confide. And, yet the laws as stated in the original post prohibit the solicitation, not the purchase. And, they certainly aren't aimed at the person or network that got the person hooked in the activity and is profiting from it. From what I've read, they lure them or abduct them. Violence is used to secure fears, they are told they need to pay off debt and when that is paid off they are sold to another and told again to pay off debt, or they and their families are threatened if they go to authorities. So, when the massage parlours are busted do they think by putting these individuals in a "safe" house is going to keep them and their families "safe?"  IMO, they will continue to get nowhere by prohibiting the solicitation and trying to arrest the "worker". They have to find better ways to bring down the network--not the onsie-twosies.  And stop average day citizens from making $900 for a referral of a person.  In today's economy two people a week is a nice wage to those without morals. Someone, please reintroduce embraceable morals.

And where in the proposal are we addressing those that are taken from Canada to other countries? How are those who "disappear without a trace" being addressed?  It is one thing to be concerned about those entering the country to solicit and trade, but IMO citizens taken from the country and shifted to unfamiliar territory or to countries with a language they don't speak--what is to be done for that?

When it comes to trafficking for organs, the country can make one very valuable leap--everyone can sign and commit to the organ donor program. If there are enough donated organs for the demand of those in the country, the market for organ trade is significantly harmed.  Second, make hospitals accountable for where they obtain the organs they are transplanting with proper measures to do so. Third, educate the public on going overseas for transplants. All you have to do is look at the countries with the huge number of clinics gearing up to meet the organ transplant demand, and you will know where the organs are headed. Where networks are coming from.

If Canada does not want to be the next Mexico, then we should start this program yesterday! Stop taking 5 years to form a committee to think about it. The answer, IMO, lies in finding ways to stop the flow and the demand. Again, yesterday. Not arrest the victims 1, by 1. And, enough about the information campaigns. Buying all the posters, and having brochures available and creating cute websites, is not stopping the criminal that is far more sophisticated than any advice provided in that paperwork that sits on the shelf in the wrong language, anyways. Action speaks. Not only that, convince the public that the funds allotted for these efforts are actually not being funneled to the bad guys and storefronts are just that--smoke and mirrors. Enough with the storefronts claiming to assist victims, and the victims can only use one phone that doesn't connect the calls, or the police don't take the reports, or the caller gets attacked and never again seen as they try to make the call on the only public pay phone that doesn't work. WT

Accountability and transparency in reporting and making available statistics is essential. People will not embrace change if they are unaware of how huge the problem is. They have to know what is in it for them.  (stronger legitimate economy, less violence, less threats to the public health and safety, less shattered families, a better more secure and cutting edge country to live in). Not making a unified missing person reporting service mandatory and publicly accessible will greatly hinder progress. Updated and progressive DNA policies are required, no more excuses. National sex and offender registries and stop clearing the names, and identities of perps and their tainted histories. Start protecting the good people, not the bad. Otherwise, politicians can continue patting themselves on the back while the network gets bigger and we look for more missing without a trace.

Also, the people have faith in the system that those in power have the right intent. Those in legislating legislate the appropriate matters, toughly. Those in sentencing aren't suspect and are sending out a consistent reliable message. Those in policing are all on the correct side of the fence. Citizens have to see overwhelmingly that those that commit crimes, get caught. Those that get caught, get sentenced. Those that get sentenced, do the full amount of time. And that the time, fits the crime and protects the public and prevents newcomers from entering the criminal field. You gain faith by gaining respect. You get respect, by earning it. You gain support by being respected.

And lastly, it starts in each and every one of our homes. If we don't buy drugs, buy sex, encourage cheap products, or buy underworld organs, there is no profit to be had.

IMO. Sorry. My rant. I care.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 09:10:35 PM by Concerned »

AlbertaCowboy

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 09:40:24 PM »
The only way to reduce violence against sex trade workers is to legalize it completely, and form safe Red-Light Zones.  Making it illegal to "purchase" sex will just drive it more underground, and put more women at risk.  We should look at the Dutch model of how they have set up Red Light Zones to regulate the trade.  Prostitution has been around forever.  Making it more illegal will just backfire, and create more problems for everyone (STW's, the community, police, etc).

Personally I see nothing wrong with two adults (Johns and Prostitutes) exchanging sex for money, as long as it is in private, and does not violate community standards (i.e. keep the trade away from schools, neighborhoods,etc).

Sleuth

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 10:22:17 PM »
I'm on the same wave band as AlbertaCowboy. If the government legalizes the sex trade to certain area's, as in brothel's, with medical check up's for the personnel, and registered personnel, and of course pay their taxes, then I think certainly it would help with human traficking in the sex department. It has worked in Nevada oh these many years. I should also think it would cut down on the rape of women and also on STW's being murdered. I thank Ms. Joy Smith for starting the ball rolling on the 5 yer jail sentence for those coaught in dealing with human traficking, but let's not lean to far to the left, and go amuck on something that has been broached many, many times before and dropped by Politicians as being too hot to handle. I think I will write to Ms Joy Smith outlining my thoughts on this subject.

Concerned

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 05:28:17 AM »
With much respect, what happened to putting time and effort into respectful mutual relationships and having sex you don't have to pay for, where no one gets hurt?  Amongst healthy adults. Too much work? Where did we get to the point that we should pay for a gift naturally given to us. 

It is that very greed to make money off from natural gifts that is making the country a ground that looks the other way. Next--it will be the Gross National Product--trafficking.

Unfortunately, paying for sex, usually means failed or no relationships at the home front. Don't tell me that sometimes a person just wants to go somewhere where no one knows their name, because you can get that in a mutual friendship without having to be paid, as well.

IMO, the pay-for-sex industry breeds disrespect for women, now men, and even children; people that enter deviant behaviors; warped senses of right and wrong; those that venture to the extremes looking for the inhumane; those that think wow I can do this to my kid, or yours; and women, men and children not thought of as humans with feelings and respect but very unfortunately they are instead thought of as objects that when home alone, or walking down the street, or walking in the park can be attacked, abused, kept, and murdered...next. As the network to supply this sick demand grows they corrupt our policing network, our legislation, our politicians, and our national security. Is it worth it? Really?

I also don't believe that people will ever be able to just "sell" themselves as a product, and not need protection. And, why should the public pay to protect them? For the type of people that have to pay for sex, IMO, are not the type that can just strike up a relationship with the normal person and agree upon a mutual fulfilling relationship. Because if they were, they would, and not be out the $2-$10-$20-$50-Etc to do so.

I think those that frequent the trades, should take stock of themselves, clean up their own backyards, and do the things that would make them attractive to the opposite sex...we just might have a better society if we do. Making a monster industry for those to deviate further down hill is, well, a country I would not want to live in. If nobody does nothing, we will get there soon. Hope we like what we get.

Sleuth

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 07:01:31 AM »
I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Legalize the sex trade and then fine tune it. It would be better for 'deviant's' to pay a 'pro' than have a woman, STW, child, snatched off of the streets.

capeheart

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2010, 05:08:30 PM »
I too am in an agreement with the sex trade being legalized. In the seventies, I was in Germany visiting my sister. They were opening a place and the dignitaries were cutting the ribbon, It was called the "Eros Centre", my sister said that is a house of prostitution and it is legal to open it here. I was shocked, to say the least. Well it is still legal, I suppose. The only way to find out really how it is working for the women who work there is to interview them and find out. Maybe one of our news people could go over there and find out what they think and if they are getting the benefits, pension plan and health care like everyone else.  :D :D :D

AlbertaCowboy

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2010, 05:30:56 PM »
I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Legalize the sex trade and then fine tune it. It would be better for 'deviant's' to pay a 'pro' than have a woman, STW, child, snatched off of the streets.

I have to agree with Sleuth.  Sorry, Carol Lynn, but for this, we shuld agree to disagree ;)

Annastaisha

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2010, 10:34:51 AM »
I am agreeing with the majority here. I think legalizing prostitution would make it a safer, not just for the girls/women that work the streets but for the people buying it. If it were legal, you'd probably see more disease screening. It could give the girls somewhere safe to go with the men (or women) paying for it, instead of in some dank dark alley or getting in a strangers car. Besides, if its legal, wouldnt that take some of the thrill away?


debbiec

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 10:42:57 AM »
1 hour, 57 minutes ago

By The Canadian Press

ADVERTISEMENT
 
TORONTO - Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty says he would be surprised if the federal government did not appeal a court ruling striking down Canada's prostitution laws.

The Ontario Superior Court ruled that laws against keeping a common bawdy house, communicating for the purposes of prostitution and living on the avails of the trade put sex-trade workers in danger.

McGuinty says the ruling proposes some profound changes to laws that have been on the books for decades, and Ontario "looks forward" to supporting the federal Conservatives in the expected appeal.

The Superior Court judgment is subject to a 30-day stay during which the law remains in place, and the federal government can seek an extension of the stay period.

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson signalled last night that the Conservatives are seriously considering an appeal.

He says Ottawa would "fight to ensure that the criminal law continues to address the significant harms that flow from prostitution to both communities and the prostitutes themselves."

The government had argued that striking down the provisions of the prostitution laws without enacting something else in their place would "pose a danger to the public."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100929/national/bawdy_law_appeal

lostlinganer

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 04:29:05 PM »
Des; isn't this part of another same thread?  I'm not sure.... there were a few more comments on this subject???

amIam

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 04:34:50 PM »
I am so hoping this ruling will stand.  Sex trade workers need a better voice, this is so far reaching and as a result may mean they are far better protected against the violence many of these women are subjected.  Perhaps now LE will be forced to listen to these women when they attempt
to report being raped.  Perhaps as a result LE across Canada will stand up and take notice if one of these ladies reports a co worker as missing. 
Makes me wonder though how much of an effect Picton and the inquiry had to do with this.

lostlinganer

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Re: Judge in Ontario strikes down prostitution laws!
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 08:23:16 PM »
Does this mean the police are going to stop dragging these woman into "the tank"?  Imagine the tons of time they will have to solve murders and robberies.