Author Topic: Russell Williams: Timeline  (Read 602693 times)

Concerned

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1365 on: February 25, 2011, 09:27:49 PM »
At one time I had the link courtesy of the DND and RW's Bio that he was there at that time..it was removed shortly after his arrest and long before RW was removed forever as ever being employed by the military.

Is this what you were looking for amIam?


Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1366 on: February 25, 2011, 09:49:25 PM »
Oh my wellwell..this is amazing stuff, thank you.
There was another from Petawawa (sp ?)..can't recall his name..he is here somewhere on this site.
He is accused of rape..I believe and it happened on the base.  Was arrested and charged after RW.
What the hell is going on?
So many incidents..difficult to ignore.

I remembered that too!  So I have more time tonight and spent some time searching through the site and found this:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3519.msg41785#msg41785

So, thank goodness, it's the same guy we are talking about and not another one. 

Now I must go back and see what it was I didn't have time to research the other night.  It wasn't that I didn't want to do it, but I wasn't feeling great and went to bed.   

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1367 on: February 25, 2011, 10:35:35 PM »
But by keeping on bringing it up and everyone defending their positions, aren't you in essence contributing to this thread concentrating on this one point you think is undeserving of attention?  Putting people down for their opinions just because you are on Team Mrs RW seems a bit much. They have their opinion, you have yours. We didn't call you names or put you down for cheerleading for MrsRW. We get it, you feel bad for her. You defend her. She has a good advocate in you. Because others want answers for her actions, you believe their opinion to be "unnecessary and contributed nothing..." 

OK, I don't get this because I didn't even bring MEH into the conversation in the first place.  We were discussing military and medicals.  If you look back, this is the quote that started the discussion: 

I had a thought today about MrsRW's predicament. It would seem to me, if she is fragile (which I can't doubt to be true--who wouldn't be) and given the victim needs to concentrate on rebuilding her life with assistance, and if MrsRW is afraid of what will be found and who will know her finances, etc... then why don't they just settle out of court?  We already know that the worth of that household is far greater than the small amount the victim is asking for. I can't help but think after all the tabulations and discovery that she may just have access to a lot more than what she is asking. Just do the right thing...settle amicably for the benefit of all. Do the right thing. Besides, from a brand image for MrsRW... it may just restore the faith and gain what some respect--a good healing for a fragile state.


I agree - it has been beaten to death and there isn't much point in discussing it further.  Time will tell what happens, if the information is released to the public. 

I didn't think I called people names.  I just said people were badmouthing her and I felt that she was a victim.  Since it seems to be an issue, this is the type of post that I was referring to.  What exactly did this contribute to the discussion?

Well little Missus, what do you think of the Mr. now? Still in love, or have you decided to take an extended vacation out of the country to avoid the finger pointing and stares until things calm down? Or are you putting in for a work transfer to another city? By the way little Missus, you're not much of a housekeeper are you? You missed dusting all those boxes and bags containing stolen lingerie. See what happens when you have two homes, ya just can't keep up with keeping them spick and span. If you had lifted that feather duster maybe you would have got just a teeny weenie bit curious as to what those boxes and bags held. Maybe you can take extra time off of work, after your vacation, to take an educational course on better house cleaning. Just a suggestion. Another little tip for ya Missy, be a little wiser in your next chose of husbands eh. Oh, and make certain the next hubby doesn't marry you for all that money you collected from the first serial killer husband? And just to be extra cautious that you don't make mistake number two, you can come to us and we will veto him for you. Of course there will be a slight charge for that since ya saved all that money by having other's pay for replacing that floor for ya. And I almost forgot, when Mr Right happens along, again, and you're missing lingerie, take a look in boxes and bags. And my last piece of advice; ain't ya glad you and the Mr. never had any spawns?

Personally, the knit picking on the details just adds to the discussion and keeps MrsRW in the spotlight. Most of the posters on this thread have more than enough proof for their statements. Whether they will want to continue to play proof volleyball is yet to be seen. They really don't have to defend every word all the time. You ask others for proof on lots of details, but you don't have time to research yours. (It keeps it in the limelight and this is why the discussion keeps on going like the energizer bunny...)

I don't get this.  amIam asked me for proof on a statement I made about when the property was transferred and I provided it.  But I ask her if she has a link about MEH ordering the Citizen to retract a news article and I get told that I am nitpicking.  So am I the only one who has to answer the requests for links?  That doesn't seem fair.  I even said that I might be wrong about what I thought I read.  I didn't think I was being nasty.     

Quote from Seeking the Truth:
Quote
amIam, do you have the link that states that the Ottawa Citizen was ordered to retract other reports at her insistence? .... I also thought that I read that it was neatly stored away and concealed, but I could be wrong about that.  I don't have time to research this right now though.
  As I said, I started looking for the link, but I wasn't feeling well so went to bed.

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1368 on: February 25, 2011, 10:43:01 PM »
Those were very interesting links wellwell.  When I was reading the second link I saw that it had been published in the Esprit de Corps magazine and remembered that it was to do with the military.  So I googled Esprit de Corps and Russell Williams and found this. 

http://www.espritdecorps.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=484:russ-williams-has-problems-not-military-screening&catid=39:personnel&Itemid=82

I've heard of Scott Taylor before and I thought that he was one of the biggest whistle blowers on the military so I was surprised to read his opinion.  I would have thought that he would be critical of the screening but apparently not.  It's only an opinion though. 

Concerned

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1369 on: February 26, 2011, 08:11:36 AM »
Seeking the Truth, I owe you an apology. I was obviously testy the other day when I read the comments, particularly about posters comments being unnecessary and contributing nothing. Coming from the side of the fence of a family member missing without a trace, at night, no clues, etc.etc...with similarities to the crimes that RW committed, I'm really sensitive to the families of the victims. The thought that one man could be so very cruel, ruthless and (there really aren't any words strong enough) to humankind is beyond comprehension. But when you enter into the mix it could be your family member degraded, harmed, horribly terrorized, humiliated, pleaing for their lives, fighting for their lives, and killed...well the hurt is extremely deep. I get tears everytime I think of what the friends and family of Lloyd and Comeau continually play in their minds. Not to mention the two woman assaulted. You want to comfort them but there really isn't a way to do that, is there.

So, when it comes to MrsRW, I think it is frustrating that here is a woman that lived with him all that time. Who chose to live apart for some odd reason, and for which RW is reported to have so much respect yet he hid some of the most gruesome evidence in her very own home, within her grasp, literally under her fingertips. I agree with Sleuth on the frustration, if she had only played the damn piano, opened some boxes to unpack, looked in some boxes stored...maybe, just maybe.  Or, if she would have visited her husband on that Friday, stayed over night with him more often, expressed discontent when he left the house in the middle of the night on those hundreds of trips he made each evening...

From the perspective of a family member wanting answers... I can see why people would be so very disappointed that she either didn't act on, report properly, or been observant enough, naive...  For if she were, if only she were, ...if only. There had to be some hint, some behavior, some reason apart was better than together. Fetish, propensity to wear women's things... something that said "I need help."

And, then you think ... my, goodness how long has he displayed behaviors that people overlooked. It so seems all his life people got the heck out of dodge... it appears from the news reports that even in his young school age years his parents left him in school, even the weekends when most other kids were picked up by their families (while they were in Asia), and he was even left at the school and college with little family interaction to fend for himself. Fascination in college with hiding in closets, jumping out and taking photographs of people's expressions as they were scared and shocked... I have to wonder if there was a reason. Could something have been done differently. Could a condition have been detected sooner. Is there more we need to learn as a society to recognize the deficiency and the propensity for great harm to humankind.

...I realize I ask these things not because I want blame, but instead what we can learn. I want to know what in the system are we not getting, doing..can do to stop all the next up and coming RW's. How can we be wiser as parents, friends, bosses, co-workers, spouses...to find help for these individuals instead of abandoning them to grow nasty and deranged.  In my opinion, we can't bring back those that are murdered, terrorized or mysteriously missing... but can we even stop just one. Just ONE more from happening?

That is why I feel it is important to learn from this. The horror was just too unbearable and the victims too damaged. The armed forces for goodness sakes was in harm's way...and one of their own targeted simply for being a subordinate.  I think we dropped the ball on them. But we have learnings from this that maybe can save the next up and coming victims of this type of crime...if we can get passed the self-blame, the embarrassment, the horror...and figure out how to become more aware and effective and proactive.

I think the words "comments unnecessary and contributing nothing" set me off, and probably should not have. Some of us don't wish to be here day after day looking for answers and learning more and more about the sick nature of others, particularly if "we" had opportunities to have stopped some of this...if only one. But we are here looking for answers we may never find. They didn't write the book on how to handle missing and murdered. So emotions sometimes come from places of hurt.  I probably was a little too sensitive to your words, which seems to only be out of compassion for MrsRW who has her own set of emotions and issues from her association with this man.  I can only hope that some day, maybe in her own words, we can listen and learn from her experience. It, too, must be horrible..but maybe it can help prevent another from turning so horrific. In the meantime, I feel we have to take care of those harmed and try to help them get back on their feet, in Godspeed.  Not hurt them further. They've been through enough.

...my olive branch.

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1370 on: February 26, 2011, 11:44:00 AM »
Thanks Concerned, and I can understand where you are coming from although I have never lost a family member in such a horrendous way.  I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one of my children.  And I have a daughter the same age as Jessica.  I watched Jessica's Mom carry her picture into the courtroom every day and I felt her extreme sorrow.  I cannot imagine how she is managing even now.  I would be a basketcase.  I would always wonder if something could have been done to save her.  If only someone had noticed something weird.  If only MEH had decided to surprise her husband with a visit that Friday.  If only that cop had run his plates.  If only someone at work had noticed something irregular.  If it was me, I would probably want to confront everyone and scream, "Why, why, why, didn't you see anything?"  But I am sure they couldn't answer.  I wonder if it is driving his friends, associates, and neighbours nuts.

As far as him being weird in university, liking to jump out and watch people's reactions, or just generally being strange.  I know several people that I would classify as "strange" or "weird" but I really hope they aren't doing that this terrible excuse for a human being did.  At what point do you point fingers at people for their weird behaviour? 

I agree that it might have been wise for MEH to issue some sort of statement through her lawyer expressing her extreme shock and sorrow at what has happened.  I wonder if she was advised not to, or if she didn't want to? 

The whole situation is really sad and bizarre.  We tend to think of murderers and serial killers as being anti-social, not really close to their families, not having many friends, not socializing with neighbours, scruffy and a deadbeat.  This person wasn't like that and because of this, it has impacted on SO MANY people's lives and I am thinking the majority of people who thought he knew him well would feel guilty, wondering if they could have saved those two women's lives and really not knowing how.  Even his friend, Tony O'Keeffe, said that he no longer considered him a friend.  That this was not the person he knew. 

I wonder what happened to that book that someone was going to write?  Maybe there really isn't much to write as the evidence has been presented pretty concisely by the guilty party.  I really wish though that someone would come forth and explain what happened.  This is the part that drives me nuts.  Why, why, why?  When he was being interviewed and he said something like, "I don't know why, and I don't think it matters."  Yes it does matter!  We don't want this to ever happen again!

jobo

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1371 on: February 26, 2011, 01:32:54 PM »
We are trying to make sense out of such a 'shining star' being such a sick puppy.   We can't recognize these kinds in our midst.
I don't think any of us owe another an apology on here.   We are all disturbed by William's crimes.   I have had the same thoughts as you, Seeking the Truth....I wish MEH had made a surprise visit home, perhaps Jessica would still be alive.   All the "if onlys".   
I think that is why some of us are hard on MEH...(including me to a degree)...I wonder why she didn't clue in?  But would I?  I am not so sure anyone could, as he is a psychopath....we don't think like him.
I honestly think that this DrOnzuka (that has pleaded guilty)  is another pyschopath that is just not as far along as Williams....he has not progressed to murder, is what I mean.  But could he?  I say yes.  All I can say is time will tell.

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1372 on: February 26, 2011, 02:04:50 PM »
We can only hope and pray that he is stopped now before anything more tragic happens, Jobo.  It seems that he has given more signs.  And those other two doctors as well, who seem to think that they can mess with women and not pay the consequences.  I would love to throw them to the wolves!

jobo

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1373 on: February 26, 2011, 07:26:30 PM »
This Dr O was more of a stalker, a photographer, you know, can't let go of things....needs pictures to fantasize with.  I think these other 2 clowns thought they had a good thing going, foolproof way to have a 'great time' with some unsuspecting lovely lady, but instead of just trying to meet women that were game to party with them, they allegedly resorted to drugging and raping more than one victim.
I see a difference in types, I am not so sure these 2 would progress to murder, because they seemed more like 'we're here for a good time, not a long time'; They do their crime and move on.  'Til next time, which will be whenever they can arrange again, probably not for a while, but that's cool, they're busy guys. 
 And Dr O. is a can't 'get over' it, type of guy....he stews and obsesses and follows and watches and is more consumed in the fantasy/crime... he is spending a lot of free time obsessing, stalking...I say that because I know he was ordered, as a grown man, to live with his parents, which is unusual..
My opinion only.

amIam

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1374 on: February 26, 2011, 08:03:02 PM »
Nothing really is known of RW's childhood background. We have a little bit of of his early life..the parents who divorced and married best friends of each other.  But as  happened later and when RW was a bit older he changed his name back from his mother's new hubby to that of his ( biological ??) father's name Williams.
It's so difficult to truly track him over the years.
What is known and documented of him before his years at college and the memories of his best friend Jeff.
Nothing..not one word ever uttered.. anywhere.
It's as if he only began to exist in college.
I would like to know and have always wondered the little things..such as perceptions of those from highschool..friends for his neighbourhood in Scarborough..Toronto, where his mother owned a home where he resided.



amIam

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1375 on: February 26, 2011, 08:26:18 PM »
Been catching up and reading the recent comments, etc., and I truly must say I really don't care the outcome of Jane Does lawsuit and perhaps she doesn't either.
However, she and her council have made a valid statement and the victim, Jane Doe has great guts as far as I am concerned.  I hand it to her with such a degree of admiration and cannot truly, in my mind even begin to comprehend the terror she experienced and I hope I never do.
Of all of Russell Williams victims and crimes which he plead guilty to all, I might add, and for which we the public are  fully aware; Jane Doe is the only victim to launch a lawsuit. Against both RW and MEH.
Of this fact I have always  wondered and further so regarding if only one admitted victim went this far..why haven't others??
Realistically and given the huge machine Jane Doe is against, there is truly no hope of winning.  However, in my opinion, Jane Doe has fought a good fight.  And again I commend her and her legal team.

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1376 on: February 26, 2011, 09:53:59 PM »
I am thinking everyone reacts in different ways to the same event.  For instance, while Jane Doe opted to not be identified (and this is her right, and I don't blame her), Laurie Massicotte decided to identify herself to the media.  And while a law suit and a civil judgement against RW might make one victim feel vindicated, another might see no point in it.   

I can see Jane Doe looking for money for counselling and trying to get her life back on track.  I have no idea of what services are available out there that would be free of charge and what type of money would be required to provide special counselling.  She feels that receiving money for the suffering she endured will help.  If she isn't capable of working, due to her ordeal, then money would definitely help. 

Other victims might feel that money won't change anything.  Maybe they are receiving counselling at no charge.  Maybe they feel that commencing a lawsuit will just prolong the turmoil and not allow them to get on with their lives.  Maybe they feel that no amount of money will give them back their daughters, their trust, or how they live their lives in the future. 

Some victims might view this money as tainted, considering who it came from.

I have no idea of how I would react.  I guess until a person is in that position, you never really know. 

And is it possible that there could also be more lawsuits forthcoming?  Is it possible that victims are waiting to see how this one pans out before they proceed?  Would it make sense to have a class action suit with all interested victims involved?

jobo

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1377 on: February 27, 2011, 06:33:42 AM »
I really doubt Williams cares about his victims....I doubt he has any compassion, whatsoever.   He only cares about MEH.   
The best way to feel like this man is paying for his crimes, is to hit him in his pocketbook.  Hurt him where it would hurt him the most....take his money.  Do not go away and leave him rotting, keep reminding him he left a trail of victims. 
  I would like to see that, Seeking the Truth....a steady stream of lawsuits....one after the other....he shouldn't be able to relax.

amIam

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1378 on: February 27, 2011, 04:39:39 PM »
Not in the least meaning to chop up and and zero in on just this comment, Seeking but victims of sexual crimes as these admitted by RW, to my mind lie within the mind of the victim.  Jane Doe, chose another road as opposed to Laurie Massicotte..Laurie came forward with her ordeal, at RW's hand, she told her story and stated she forgives him.
What a brave lady to take this step forward..she is not a victim.
In fact she stated she felt pity as well as forgiveness.
I am certian RW is well aware of her comments..so he did not win in the long run.
One has to be a survivor of rape/ sexual assault to understand the degree of power the perp feels he has had..and to be so publically blown away by the victim truly must have been extremely devastating.


I am thinking everyone reacts in different ways to the same event.  For instance, while Jane Doe opted to not be identified (and this is her right, and I don't blame her), Laurie Massicotte decided to identify herself to the media.

Seeking the Truth

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Re: Russell Williams: Timeline
« Reply #1379 on: February 27, 2011, 09:51:40 PM »
I can see where you are coming from am, but I think she is still a victim.  She has been injured physically and emotionally by this monster, and whether she states she forgives him, there may still be emotional fallout down the road.  It is possible she could still be having issues with trust, being afraid to be alone, even though she states that she forgives him.  Anyhow, it is more terminology and I really wish her well and hope that she is managing to get on with her life.

I am sure he is aware of her comments as well and I doubt that he would be devastated by them.  A monster such as he is, would he even really care?  He didn't seem to have feelings about much of anything, other than his cat and keeping his wife happy.  To me, even his crocodile tears at the sentencing weren't due to distress at all the turmoil he had caused in so many persons' lives, but because he knew he was going to be locked up for the rest of his life.