Author Topic: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON  (Read 150178 times)

Have faith

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #300 on: February 19, 2013, 04:49:25 PM »
I should point out that once york3404 finds the concession and lot numbers of the properties he/she is interested in, he should ask to see the property map of the area from 1963, which shows plot lines graphs and helps to locate the present sites geographically.  For example, even if the Allison farm land has changed over the years (subdivided etc) you can get a good idea of where it was located in 1963.

york3404

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #301 on: February 19, 2013, 08:56:14 PM »
The best source for information is the city directory in the public library.  I can get everything I need to know about properties and who lived where and when from them. Its more important at this point to familiarize myself with clothing from 60's and they type of style Noreen had. Also if any other crimes had happened around this time. There are so many possibilities at this point. 
 I see Have faith has done some research as you are right about going back in time if I may say. To map out what would have been in 63 is of most importance.  The best scenario at this point is something around the tracks as this area would not change to much. Only because these areas do get high traffic. Farms are constantly fertilized,tilled, and planted making it hard to tell what ground area has be disturbed. Also high fertilized farm soil causes change through out the field changing the soil color constantly.

I will agree there is research to be done. 

york3404

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #302 on: February 20, 2013, 07:52:33 PM »
I think with all the post going on its hard to place the facts with the facts and stipulation with stipulation. I was trying to take myself back to the 60's when it jumped out at me.  Please correct me if I am wrong but in the 60's lots of people made a life farming.
Meaning I have blood raised farmers in my life especially Dairy.  Where there any dairy farms around Holt rd, Maple Grove, and all other side roads between hwy 2 at the time and all places Noreen could be?. I am simply asking because my uncle was a faithful farmer because dairy cows are high maintanance. He would would milk every 4-6 hours depending on the age of cows and milking took over 2 hours sometimes 3 to complete.  They used to joke about once finishing milking it was time to milk again.  So if you got up at 4 am to milk you would milk 4am,10am,4pm,10pm,4am.  See my pattern. Someone or many farmers would have been out between 11pm-1am and again at 4am. Were the farmers in the area asked if they seen or heard a vehicle at those hours.  What kind of farm did Dave Allison have.? Could he have see someone on the back of his property at the hours between 12am and 4am.  He may even have confronted them.  Just a suggestion but someone had to have seen or heard something around this time.  It was the early 60's and there had to be a ton of farmers.  A warmer Sept night most farmers would have left the cows outside at night with an open barn and fresh bedding for cows to come in.Simply meaning they would have been able to see someone or hear something.

leonagleant

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #303 on: February 20, 2013, 10:20:45 PM »
We don't know enough about the individuals to know if Dave Allison was a teenage contemporary of Noreen's brother and was complicit in this crime. Or if he was the adult owner of the farm at the time who would be elderly or have passed on by now. What age would he be now? There is one person by that name on FB who is a trucker out of Hamilton though I doubt it's the same person.

SAP

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #304 on: February 21, 2013, 10:14:47 AM »
York there are two family members on this thread ... one is Greenley Family and the other is Joyce, I believe. Perhaps if you private message them, they may be able to give you more insights and info.

jellybean

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #305 on: February 21, 2013, 01:52:18 PM »
I have the deepest admiration for Noreen's living relatives in taking on this enormous task to reach some resolution and justice for this missing young girl, who would have been an aunt to them. 

Reminds me so much of Baba Donya and her family who are in the same boat of trying to bring to justice of  the murder of their aunt Alexandria.

I don't know how they can continue on with such great resolve, resiliance and determination.

Boy, if any answers should be forthcoming - this is one family who deserves it.
Note to law enforcement:  Take up this case in a very full time serious manner, and run with it.

Give this file to the Cold Case section, and reactivate it.   
Enough is Enough,
JB
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:58:53 PM by jellybean »

lostlinganer

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Re: Noreen Greenley - 13 - Missing - September 14, 1963 - Bowmanville, ON
« Reply #306 on: February 21, 2013, 06:01:56 PM »
indeed JB.... well said!

lostlinganer

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I just read this whole thread over again... been a year or so stale in my mind.  Nonetheless; I noticed something I would like to question:

from Complexnatural:
Quote
I happened on this site through a facebook share.  My heart aches for the family.  I have lived in and around Bowmanville since 1984.  I have ALWAYS  found the area around Conc 4/Liberty St. to be a very heavy energy area.  After reading all the posts, esp. the ones about the psychic feelings regarding a trailer park and railway line, I drove past where Thistle Valley trailer park used to be on Conc 4, near Lambs Rd.  As a previous poster said, the trailer park is now gone and is a vacant field.  The rail line is about 1/2 km (maybe a bit less) south of where Thistle Valley was located (close to the old Training School).   While I was driving east on Conc 4 and turning south on Lambs Road to the railway tracks, I had such a sense of knowing.  I have quite a bit of psychic ability and much of the time I sense energy (good and bad) but the reasons are unknown to me.  I could puzzle the underlying reason but life is busy and I don't always have the time.  I finally understood the reason for the uncomfortable feelings I have always had in that area was because because of Noreen. I believe that she is in that area, as well.  I stopped at the railway tracks and spoke to her.  I said a prayer and asked her to contact her family in some way so that they may be led to her and she may be put to rest in their hearts.  If I have any contact at all from Noreen, I will definitely post.  Sending love and light to the Greenley family.

Is this the same training center I was referring to/questioning way back in this thread?

post 3412  http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3175.195
Quote
Did anybody ever question if any of the "abusers" at the Girls Training School/Reformatory in Lindsay, lived near Bowmanville or passed through at that hour?  if so, what they drove?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 12:36:50 AM by lostlinganer »

Have faith

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Hi Lost,

The Bowmanville training centre was for boys, but was also involved in the abuse allegations.



http://www.restoringdignity.org/news/0009.html

LA

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Hello everyone,

Just want to introduce myself to the group and comment on the incredible passion and energy in these posts!  I happened to fall upon this site searching for missing children in my area (Clarington), my curiosity was sparked by the recent Cleveland breakthrough where 3 girls were found after a decade of captivity.  A renewed sense of hope, faith and community ...
 
I have reviewed all 21 pages and am trying to absorb all the details, facts and speculations as there has been so much information captured in the past 2 odd years.  I think the challenge for me is that I need the see the information displayed visually with some sort of timeline.  I will see what I come up and if I am able to, I will post it on this site. 

The one lead that really needs to be investigated is the potential resting place of Noreen on the Allison farm.  Can someone confirm if any research has been done in locating the Allison Farm with land details from 1963, if so can this information be shared?  If not, I am willing to take this on as I live in the next town.  My family moved to the area almost a decade ago so we aren't familiar with the landscape back in 1963 but we have developed friendships with several families that have lived in Bowmanville all their lives and some of whom are farmers so I will be asking some questions.

LA

Sarah420

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I'm only in my 30s but I grew up outside of Bowmanville, and a lot of the names in these articles are familiar to me. The thought that this could happen to such a nice family in such a small town, a town in which I have walked the very roads that Noreen had walked at the same age that she had walked them, well, that really hits close to home. Some of the facts that I have read through troubles me deeply. I would never want to point fingers, but I would like to know weather or not Bonnie or her now husband were ever suspected in the abduction. If so, I would find it interesting to read over the questioning process. I have read brief statements that were made by Bonnie, but nothing of Mr. Woolner, or the bus driver. I would like to know how they were each questioned. Something doesn't add up there. I also wanted to mention that just west of Bowmanville on the north side of King St. there is an opening a little ways back from the road, now it has a trailer or two on it, but it might of had more back in the 60's. I think looking for an old park, might be a good place to look. I wish all the family the best of luck, and if there is anything that I can ever do to help, I would be more then happy to do so. Even if its just to trek through the bush to start digging, I'd be more than happy to do so...good luck in your investigation. I wish you the very best.

Sarah420

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I've been doing my own bit of research about Noreen's case that might help. Bowmanville's a small town and people talk. I know its only talk, but I would think that at this point it might be worth looking into. I don't want to post this on here, because if its not true, then it could be very devastating to the individual in question. I don't want to put my email on here either, but I had to give my address to sign up for this site so I'm sure you can get it, if not I think you can send me a private message, that will be fine.

york3404

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I haven't posted on here for some time simply because we are in full swing of investigating this case.  I can't comment on to many things in the open, but I will inform those interested that I have located the old Allison farm, and we are not ruling out anything at this point.   The hardest part thus far is simply tracking down people and getting them to feel confident in the research that is being done.  We have graphed a large area of Bowmanville and will continue to rule out locations as we search them.  At this point I am hoping anyone that has information we find and ask the right questions and second we can side with them and have them understand that at this point I want any information there is and I am not about to doubt anyone about what info they have. I know police are more septic but honestly its about bring Noreen home and not so much about the justice anymore.  The family just wants her to come home, and we are planning on that happening weather its tomorrow or a few more years we will continue to search for her.

In the police defense we have to be understanding of the times and era that crimes like this were happening.  We have learned so much from the lack of information collected during investigations like this one that we have learned so much from what they didn't do. Yes it makes it extremly hard to go back in time when they were unable to collect evidence simply because they were uneducated about what kinds of things to ask and what kinds of things to note. Like the body language of people they questions or their surroundings.  Police were more used to young girls wanting to be rebels and runaways then the likely hood of them being kidnapped.  Yes there mistakes especially in this case but again we have to focus on what we have learned and what info we have.

Feel free to message me privately if you want to be a part of the search or if you think you have any info weather it is straight from the source of third party we can rule out info as we research it, and I don't want to make the mistake of not taking someone seriously just because. I have no excuses for that mentality and we will continue to take all info seriously.

jobo

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I am happy to see some more people are interested in finding out what happened to Noreen.  I hope you can all get together and make a difference....It is nice to see so many strangers care about what happened to a young girl so many years ago.
I wish you all luck in finding answers.

TLG

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If anyone is interested, I am interested as well to take a walk along D Allison's farm and the railway tracks...I get goosebumps everytime I drive down Holts Road and in around that area...I know there are still a few farms in that area, and I am sure if we knock on their doors they won't mind if we walk along their property lines...Please let me know if anyone is interested sometime this week to do so.