Author Topic: Honour Killings in Canada  (Read 35031 times)

Sleuth

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Honour Killings in Canada
« on: July 23, 2009, 05:22:49 PM »
Chris I wasn't certain where to put this thread so I'm putting it here. Every other week I read in the paper about an honour killing. And 99% of the killings are against women. It is starting to make me throw up!  >:( Do new immigrants from the Eastern countries not realize when they immigrate that the culture is different? Obviously not, because old and new = disaster. It is a clash of the different cultures. The women are suppose to stay like they were in the country they came from, but they see the freedom the other women and young girls enjoy and want to become a part of them. The men don't want them to become Canadian and kill them for dishonouring the men's wishes and making the family look bad in the eyes of their peers. And they will not provide headstones or any other markers for where they are buried. And the leader of their religion just tu-tu's. If the religious leader(s) will start to expel the men from their mosque's, which is the worst thing that can befall a Islamic man, maybe then the men will start to take heed and stop the killing of women. Being sent to prison takes away their freedom, not their rights. What to do?   


Parents, son charged with murder in case of 4 found in car near Kingston, Ont.

Module body

1 hour, 57 minutes ago
July 23 2009

By Sunny Freeman, The Canadian Press
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KINGSTON, Ont. - The suspicious deaths of three Montreal sisters and a caregiver found inexplicably in a car submerged in the Rideau Canal took a dramatic new twist Thursday, as police alleged the four had been murdered by the girls' parents and brother in a possible honour killing.

Kingston police Chief Stephen Tanner said investigators were looking into whether the parents and their 18-year-old son were motivated to kill the girls aged 19, 17 and 13, in a deadly clash of cultures.

The parents - Mohammad Shafia and his wife Tooba Yahya Mohammad - and their 18-year-old son Hamed Mohammad-Shafia were from Kabul, Afghanistan. The family spent 15 years in Dubai before moving to Montreal two years ago.

Tanner said the girls were living as "Canadian teenagers."

"In our Canadian society we value the cultural values of everyone that makes up this great country and some of us have different core beliefs, different family values, different sets of rules, and certainly, these individuals, in particular the three teenagers, were Canadian teenagers who have all the freedom and rights of expression of all Canadians," Tanner said.

"So whether that was a part of a motive within the family based on one ... or more of the girls' behaviour is open to a little bit of speculation."

Police had always called the deaths suspicious. No one could explain how the car had dropped into the canal. There were no skid marks indicating it had gone off the edge of the lock. And there were several obstacles that made it next to impossible that the car could accidentally be driven into the water.

The black Nissan was first noticed by a lock worker submerged in three metres of water early in the morning of June 30. Its front end was up against the lock wall as if the vehicle had plunged in backwards.

Three weeks after the car was discovered, investigators Thursday laid out a very different scenario than the one offered to police and the public by the victims' family.

Shafia had told police the family had stopped overnight at a motel in Kingston after vacationing in Niagara Falls. The family was tired and didn't want to continue the drive to Montreal until the next day.

The family had driven two cars and had taken two rooms at the motel.

The parents said the eldest daughter, Zainab, had knocked on the door of her parents' room that night and asked for the car keys to get some clothes she had left inside the vehicle.

The next morning, the parents said the second car was gone and at about noon the father went to Kingston police to say the Nissan along with their three daughters and "aunt" were missing.

After making the report, the parents continued on their way to Montreal, wondering if the other family members had left without them and had made it home first, the father said.

In later interviews with the media, the family suggested that Zainab was a rebellious young girl who had a habit of taking the family car without consent or a licence. In tearful interviews, they speculated that their daughter had taken the car for a joy ride that had turned deadly.

Lead investigator Insp. Brian Begbie said Thursday "this particular allegation was false."

Begbie said the girl had not driven the car that ended up at the bottom of the canal, and that the investigation had revealed that all three accused had.

In another startling revelation, police for the first time identified the caregiver, Rona Amir Mohammad, 52, as Shafia's first wife. He had told police she was his cousin.

"It's not the first time we have seen a family make public pleas and found later the situation was substantially different," said Tanner

Yet, police described themselves as "greatly saddened" at the "needless and senseless loss of innocent human lives" and in an unusual request asked everyone in attendance to observe a moment of silence.

"All shared the rights within our great country to live without fear, to enjoy safety and security and to exercise freedom of choice and expression and yet had their lives cut short by members of their own family," said Tanner, before asking for the silent tribute to the four female victims.

The three accused have also been charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

He said police had received an email from a family member raising the issue of an honour crime and added that police were investigating the allegation.

Sleuth

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 10:18:59 PM »
I agree Des, the covering takes away their identities as a person.

Chris

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 11:58:24 PM »
I know this may not be popular.... i never say this to anyone... but for 1 reason alone I am glad of those wars over there is because it has freed a lot of people like the women who were killed in this story. It makes me mad how they treat people in Suadi Arabia and Kuwait and we call them friends. How Erertria does the same thing.. and we give them aid. Sudan, Somalia... all bad. Uganda is a bright spot though.

I know it is not popular. But I silently wish we'd go one by one and invade all these nutty countries and free the people.

Edsonmom

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 12:04:11 AM »
Crap.. Chris can you delete my thread on this..Sorry sleuth.. you beat me again.. ;)

Edsonmom

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Shwa

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 06:25:33 AM »
Honour killings.  Let's take the rose coloured glasses off and see it for what it is.  Murder, plain and simple.

But using the term 'honour killings' is a cheap semantical device designed to shine the light on people whom we consider suspicious - Muslims.  Somehow this seems to define "their" violence against women, children, society.  And in sensationalizing "them" and "their" weird religious customs, we are spared the awful stress of realizing that "honour killings" are far more prevalent here in the West than they are in the East.

What's in a word?  Particularly the word "honour."  Look it up in the dictionary.

Look into the motivations of recent multiple serial murders or the family murder-suicides and you see violence against women and children based upon the twisted ideals of a society gone off the tracks.  We hear about a man losing his job, feeling ashamed and then slaughtering his entire family.  We hear about a mentally twisted young man spurnned by his girlfriend and he goes and wipes out her family.  We hear about a guy losing his job and going 'postal' at his workplace.  How many times do we hear of this each year?  And how often do you hear the motivations for these acts?

Sure we can attach labels to the freaks of the Muslin world, but God forbid we find the exact same twisted and sick thinking in the freaks of our own society.  Instead we say psychopath, sociopath, crazy, insane... Like somehow attaching remote psychological "reasons" makes it less heinous...

If you want to get an insight into the concept of honour killings in Canada, pick up the trial information of the Bandidos mass murder trial here in Ontario:  http://www.thestar.com/article/671092  Or how about the many gang slayings that regularly go on over honour and shame?

The people in this awful murder may indeed be from some broken down dump like Kabul - but they are no different than the sick creeps from the broken down dumps in NY, Toronto, LA, Chicago and everywhere in between.

Sleuth

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 03:43:01 PM »
For once I am at a loss for words.  :-X

Saudi girl crowned Miss Moral Beauty

 Fri Jul 24, 7:15 AM


RIYADH (AFP) - Saudi beauty queen Aya Ali al-Mulla trounced 274 rivals to win a crown, jewellery, cash and a trip to Malaysia, and all without showing her face, Saudi media reported on Friday.

With her face and body completely covered by the black head-to-toe abaya mandatory in the conservative Muslim kingdom, 18-year-old Mullah was named "Queen of Beautiful Morals" late on Thursday, newspapers said.

There was none of the swimsuit and evening gown competitions and heavy media coverage of beauty pageants elsewhere when the contest was decided in the eastern city of Safwa.

Instead, the winner and the two runner-up princesses had to undergo a three-month test of their dutifulness to their parents and family, and their service to society.

This included a battery of personal, cultural, social and psychological tests, Al-Watan reported.

It was unclear exactly what Mullah did to pip her rivals in the huge field, but Al-Watan reported that the high school graduate had good grades and hopes to go into medicine.

She raked in a 5,000-riyal (1,333-dollar) prize, a pearl necklace, diamond watch, diamond necklace, and a free ticket to Malaysia with her win.

The 20-year-old first runner-up, one of triplets, had already won an education ministry-sponsored "I love you, my country" competition.

The second runner-up, a high school student aged 15, was cited for taking care of her home and family during the week because her mother works far from home and can only return on weekends.

Beauty contests focused on physical beauty are non-existent in segregated Saudi Arabia, where women can not mix with unrelated men, and must appear in public completely covered -- even in photographs.

Miss Moral Beauty pageant organiser Khadra al-Mubarak kept the focus on inner beauty, as defined by Islamic standards of Saudi Arabia.

"The real winner in this competition is the society. The winners represent the culture of the society and its high Islamic morals," Mubarak said, according to Al-Watan.

Chris

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 10:29:36 PM »
Quote
But using the term 'honour killings' is a cheap semantical device designed to shine the light on people whom we consider suspicious - Muslims.

I disagree. this is a term used by Muslims in certain areas. this is an acceptable practice. Yes other cultures have there own murders, but these honor killings are especailly sickening because:

1 - they kill woman
2 - Even children
3 - and done so because they offended the family

Jehovah Witness's exile family members that offend them. That is bad. But they don't kill them.

We never made up this word nor do I feel we wrongly heap scorn on the practice.

Sleuth

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 02:39:11 AM »


Quote[Sixteen-year-old Aqsa Parvez's father and brother are currently awaiting trial for her strangulation death in 2007, and friends said the Brampton, Ont., teen had been clashing with her family over her refusal to wear the hijab.]

I had a memorial set up for Aqsa at http://www.jareds-law.com/Aqsa%20Parvez.html  Since the father refuses to have a headstone for Aqsa because she brought shame upon the family. Even if her family is forced to never acknowledge her existence she did exist and a memorial for this young, vibrant 16 year old would show the world she did exist and why she was murdered.
So take that father and brother:P

Electra

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 01:25:18 PM »
Yet another sad story about family misunderstandings....they seem to go on and on... alot of work needs to be done with respect to educating ourselves and those new to our country about right and wrong and how we look at things .... and the implementation of necessary programs. The bottom line to me is no matter what the motive is... a killer is a killer. People who murder other people need to be analyzed more and we need to educate ourselves more on how to stop the ruthless before they come to the point that they will murder... and may get away with it... every story like this has one common factor...a killer - a person....ended someones life... or worse, such as in this case.... the life of several people.  More research into this sort of stuff is required so we have a better understanding of things before they get to this point... a clash of cultures may be the most obvious reason for these murders...but the real and true answer is that there are killers among us everywhere ....the more we find out about them, the more research we do, maybe it will help us to stop things like this BEFORE they happen

capeheart

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 04:46:16 PM »
Thank you Chris, I too was just about to enter my disgust at calling First Degree Murder, "honour killings". I do believe that Canada should wipe those two words from the dictionary in this country. It is clear it is a violent act of murder against four women, who were free to do as they wanted in a free country. All this control that men have over women and that they don't have any rights, is totally disgusting. These people should take detailed information on what it is to be a Canadian, before they are allowed to come into this country. They have to know that any kind of violence is not tolerated and the laws that are in place to prevent it. I say they should not be allowed to contaminate this country with such violence against any person and especially their own flesh and blood. The immigration department has to take a wider view of who they are letting into this country, that do not know the meaning of freedom. They definitely should get the maximum sentence for this crime and to hell with their religion or beliefs or anything else that they come up with to try to defend this. This WAS FIRST DEGREE MURDER and they will be punished by Canadian law and I pray and hope that the proper justice is done in this case. A total senseless act of violence at the hands of not one, but three family members, totally disgusting. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Shwa

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 06:08:36 AM »
That is my point Chris.  The Muslims say it, or we say it of the Muslims, but we never say it about ourselves when, clearly, it happens here all the time in many forms - including the rape and murder of women and children.  We need to remove religion from the facts completely and give those acts the entire full force of our law whether the perpetrators are Muslim, Christian, agnostic or anything else under the sun.

We also need to remove the phrase and see it for what it is to remove the stigma and fear of Muslim people.  In fact, it is not a Muslim thing, but a thing by certain and limited group of people that are Muslim.  Just like not all Catholics are kiddy diddlers and not all evangelical Christians take children across state lines for sex purposes (Tony Alamo was convicted).

We welcome people from all corners of the earth to Canada - a name which literally means 'the place of our homes;'  we say to them they can practice their culture, speak their language and have freedom of religious belief and then we turn around and vilify them for one thing or another when they don't fit in.  We fear monger, we devise derogatory names for them.  The history of Canada is all about this sort of nasty treatment. 

But in this case, we are talking about a limited and specific phenomenon that should not get any special consideration or notice because they are Muslim, but because they murdered a woman and children.  If we want to send a message to new immigrants about how things work here, remove the phrase 'honour killings' and replace it with 'coldblooded murders of women and children.'

It might not sell as many newspapers, but it certainly is closer to the truth.

lostlinganer

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 11:49:16 AM »
This is a remark I posted on another thread.  I repeat it on this thread also.



Quote
Wow. I guess the citizens of US, the social workers and therapists, the police, judicial system and politicians should put together a very detailed educational program about the laws of the land they have sought refuge in and teach it to those who the CenterPoint Foundation helps.

......well put Des;  seems it's time to draw the line on how far these new citizens of this country can go.  Too often, we see newcomers to this country practicing "the cruelest" of " their "traditional beliefs" .  We hear of woman oppressed and chastized by their husbands or parents - children oppressed and punished by parents, for being like other children (as opposed to strict or religious habits of the parent's former life) .... a few have even disappeared and/or turned up dead.  It they want to practice their religion or beliefs to the extent of cruelty, they should not be in a country where all citizens, regardless of race or creed, are "equal" and deserving of civil rights and protection from harm - at anyone else's hand. 

[/b]  .......send them back where they came from if they can't respect the country, it's citizens, and its law.  ....better yet, don't let them in if they are dragging the women and children "on a leash"!  We don't do that here - anymore than we send brainwashed people, who will explode themselves, into crowds of men, woman and children - just to "make a point" and scare others into giving up all control.

Shwa

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 06:23:00 AM »
I dunno that "we don't do that here."  I think there are rose coloured glasses again.  If we can get by the small differences, we can see great similarities.  A rose by any other name, is still a rose.

OUR belief system, the one in the modern Western society - especially in the US and Canada - has spawned gangs the regularly terrorize innocent citizens.  The perception appears to be that since they are killing their own, it is somehow OK.  Well, this family 'killed their own.'  We send in our kids to fight for "democracy" all the while we allow the most notorious neighbourhoods in Canada and the US to be run by the most violent and murdering people in society.  And they ain't democractic. And yet, the high irony of it all is that when immigrants come here, they usually end up in these neighbourhoods.  What do we want to "teach" them again?  A quick cursory glance at how the Somalians were integrated into Ottawa should provide enlightenment.

Has anyone forgotten all those bombings in Montreal while the Hell's Angels and Rock Machine had their "turf" war in the 90's and 00's?  How many innocents were killed or maimed because of that war?  We are not talking drive-by shootings, but bombings in the street.  Storefronts blowing out - cars blowing up.  If the hallmark of terrorists are bombs, then we have our fair share.  And this turf war is not unique in any respects to Canadian history if anyone remembers the FLQ crisis in the early 70's.

Tell me how these gangs are respecting our country, our citizens and our laws.

And if recent information is any indication, Canada is fresh ground for MS13 or Mara Salvatrucha.  Those people are violent for the fun of it.  Shoot or bomb first, business later when the smoke clears.

So as much as we light to think we are the high road in evolution, we have enough serious problems right here at home that we ought not to point fingers too much.  Maybe that is a better message to teach the immigrants.

But in the end our message must be: END THE VIOLENCE PERIOD.

It may be the one day we need to have some form of civil war to end this cycle of violence and mayhem.  One famous French philosopher said that 'the people must be forced to be free.'  The problem nowadays - with the policing and justice system as it is, we sometimes don't know who the real enemy is.

lostlinganer

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Re: Honour Killings in Canada
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 06:53:45 AM »
I have to agree Shwa.  It really seems that the higher-ups in this country condone much of the same!  The justice system, even when forced through petitions to politicians, the courts, and Paliament and medial coverage -  continuously ignore judicial corruption, gang activities, serial killers hiding behind corrupt cops and mounties (supposed to be valuable informants - above the law), all the killings of young aboriginal woman and children, those dead and/or injured by police abusing their authority, the abuse of children in foster care, the abuse of children entrusted in the care of certain groups..........all in all, condoning violence and absolute corruption among certain groups.  It's as though it's all carefully decided behind close doors.  ...and maybe ...just maybe ...there is something to the "World Order" speculation/theory as well.