Author Topic: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved  (Read 19111 times)

Desespere

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Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« on: June 20, 2009, 02:00:25 PM »
This thread is to compare MOs around Canada. It is not uncommon for serial killers to kill in different ways, which may make it harder to tie crimes together. However, even if they do kill in different ways, there will be some victims killed in similar ways. While we don't have information the police do, perhaps we can discuss these cases in terms of linkages or distinctness.

There are so many different methods, but really, overall, only so many ways to kill a person. Signatures will never be revealed, however, sometimes certain things are released in early murders, before it is known there may be one person responsible for more than one murder in a given area.

Many profilers say killers tend to have comfort zones, buffer zones and rarely go outside their comfort zone. I can't argue that. But I am speculating that some might have several comfort zones, in different neighbourhoods, cities or even provinces. Some may have moved from one comfort zone to another, many miles and jurisdictions away. And many jurisdictions work on the assumption that if a series of killings has stopped it means the killer is dead, in jail or moved away.

It's the moving away part, the seeming end of their responsibility to catch the killer for future murders, that bugs me. Often caught killers have been known to have moved and killed in new locations. Did the Edmonton killer move from somewhere else? Is he still active and does he travel to other cities, still? Or is he without enough resources to murder, dispose and get away at this stage?

Experts say there are 7-10 serial killers in Canada at any given time. Maybe more. That's such a small number compared to the number of people. How do we find 7-10 people out of 33 million?

lostlinganer

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 12:29:39 PM »
Well done Des! 

itdoesntmatter

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 01:11:29 AM »
Have you thought about taking the missing persons and the unsolved homicides and seeing if there's a link, in Ontario.  I don't know how far back your records go but if you look at 1960-present you might find a pattern.  Mostly during the spring, summer and fall months though because Northern Ontario didn't have very good access to the rest of Ontario until they built the highway.
I realize that this is going to seem like an odd post to you but try to have some faith and patients with me.

Does anyone know how many missing persons actually end up in the news paper versus the actual number of missing persons?

itdoesntmatter

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 01:15:14 AM »
"Experts say there are 7-10 serial killers in Canada at any given time. Maybe more. That's such a small number compared to the number of people. How do we find 7-10 people out of 33 million?"

I don't believe this is correct.  They only know that they may have a serial killer if they find a body...what about all the missing persons.  Could they not be the victims of serial killers that have the MO of destroying the bodies of their victims?

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 02:10:11 PM »
I stumbled across something yesterday - not so much regarding MO as similarity where victims have been found.  Here is a list of victims found very close to railway lines.

Debbie Silverman 1978 - a railway line crosses the property in Sunderland where she was located after missing for 3 months.  The local historian specifically describes her body was found between the railway and the road in an e-mail to me.

Lizzie Tomlinson 1980.  Lizzie was found brutalized and hidden by brush at a railway line in Toronto.

Veronica Kaye missing November 1980, found October 1981.  Veronica was found off Duffy's Lane in Caledon - there is a railway line that crosses Duffy's Lane south of Old Church Road on a large tract of conservation property.  I do not know how close to this rail line she was found.

Christine Jessop 1984.  Like Debbie Silverman, who was found not far from Christine in Sunderland, a railway line crosses the property where she was found.  They are not the same rail lines - the one where Christine was found was abandoned long ago.

More coincidence - Robert Brown missing since 1968.  Robert went missing within a perfect geographic square northwest of where Debbie and Christine were found.  He was walking from Pefferlaw to his home in nearby Wilfrid.  A rail line crosses the road in Pefferlaw leading to Wilfrid.

Cheryl Hanson missing since 1974.  Cheryl was walking along Bloomington Road in Aurora, east of where Dianna Veronica Singh was found stabbed 3 months later.  There is a rail line that crosses Bloomington between these 2 locations.

Dianna Veronica Singh 1974.  I found a small discrepancy in the exact location where Dianna was found.  It has been reported that she was found 100 yards off Keele Street on the east side of King Seneca campus.  Keele borders the extreme west side of the campus - it is also the border of what appears to be a monastery.  If she was found on the east side of Seneca, that only puts her closer to this rail line.

Yvonne Leroux 1972.  This is confusing to me.  Yvonne is reported to have been found on Green Lane and 16th Sideroad between Jane and Keele (near Dianna Singh).  Green Lane does not intersect the other 2 roads.  Green Lane does have a rail line crossing it - the same line between Dianna and Cheryl.

Geraldine Pickford 1965.  The same rail line that runs south from Green Lane crosses St John's Sideroad just east of Yonge Street (before it runs down to and crosses Bloomington).  Geraldine was found in a creek on the campus of St Andrew's College, at the corner of St John's SR and Yonge.

One last bizarre item that caught my eye - while checking where Veronica Kaye was last seen in November 1980 - Highway 427 and Bloor Street West, I noticed she lived immediately south of where Amber Carrie Potts-Jaffary was last seen in December 1988.  Pretty much a straight line.


Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 11:12:28 AM »
Checked a few cases in the London, Ontario area and found more victims found at or near rail lines.  Des, I noticed your post here regarding comfort zones - this may be a crazy thought but of all the places these victims could have been left, I can't help but wonder why rail lines are frequently close by.
 
One in particular that caught my attention is Susan Cadieux - age 5 found murdered in 1956.  She was found in a construction and farm supply warehouse yard with a rail line running through it - Lizzie Tomlinson, age 7 was found in Toronto in 1980 in a rail yard.

I then looked at the 4 anonymous postings under Find-A-Grave that have been mentioned on this site.
One is Susan Cadieux. 
Another is Patricia Lupton, found on McCown Road in Toronto - there is a rail line that crosses McCowan just north of Sheppard.  I do not know where on McCowan Patricia was found.
Yvonne Leroux - one report has her found on or just off Green Lane which has a rail line crossing it.
Lynn Harper - a rail line runs along the south end of Clinton.

Another one I checked at random is Priscilla Merle, found in Kettle Creek in Port Stanley in 1972.  A rail line runs along Kettle Creek down to the waterfront at Lake Erie.  The same for Jacqueline English found in or at Big Otter Creek near Tilsonburg - a rail line crosses Big Otter Creek.

Looking at various maps, there are plenty of locations near where these victims were found that are remote and do not have rail lines.

If anyone knows of a more accurate location on anyone I have listed, would appreciate a post.

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »
In the case of Christine Jessop the rail line is abandoned - and pretty sure it was before she was left there but will check in the meantime.  The others appear to be still in use.

This is a long list of victims, so I have the same question - same perp?

What is intriguing is that the victims were taken to these locations.  So the odds would be???

capeheart

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 03:18:37 PM »
If all these victims were taken in close proximity to each other, it does sound like the same person is victimizing these women. Maybe it should be noted by the police that these crimes are possibly the same killer and people could take more note of who is coming and going around those areas. Usually anywhere there are railroad lines it is pretty desolate and not much traffic there. I guess this is why the person would use these isolated areas to dispose of a body. They maybe doing this for many, many years and never get caught. If the police can make a connection into who the victim was with or where they were hanging out, they may get a suspect. Did any of these women know one another??? There could be some kind of a connection there.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2010, 04:50:06 PM »
Hey gibbons - random speculation is all that I have as well on a number of victims found at or near rail yards.  I have noticed this is not just confined to the London, Ontario area.

I do not think the rail line is a mode of transportation btw.  Easy access?  Knowledge of where the lines run?  I don't know.

When reading about a case, I usually look at the location where the victim was found on a map.  I initially thought nothing of seeing a rail line in close proximity to where a victim was found.  Bear in mind, an exact location is rarely available.  It simply hit me one day that I keep seeing a rail line and I decided to post my observation.

Most, if not all rail lines in Ontario seem to be connected somewhere, somehow.  I have followed them from one victim location to another.  There is always a transfer station allowing a change of direction, and ultimately another victim location.

The same is true for many victims in Manitoba as well, but have not yet been able to write them all down.  I need a more detailed map - google is fine, but lacks detail.

I wish I knew more than just an observation, if there is something to know.

jobo

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 09:33:37 AM »
Recently there was a case in Ottawa, where the murdered victim was found in a rail yard.    Many times, I have mulled over the idea that the perps are just lazy...looking for an easy spot to leave their victim.   The perp doesn't have to trudge thru mud, brush and trees.....Just my thoughts on this.

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 09:33:30 AM »
Gibbons -  will look more at the rail line aspect.  My interest is in a rail line near where the victims were found and going backwards as to how they would have ended up there.

Can you provide some info on the following?

Who was the rail worker convicted of murder?  Who was the victim?  Where was the victim found?

Trying to pinpoint the exact location Jacqueline Dunleavy was found - where is/was the school yard she was found in, in relation to Oxford St., Springbank Park and the Thames River?

I like your notation on overhead train trestles, especially those that cross rivers/creeks, as this is something I have noticed as well.  Also, your mention of the historic London-Port Stanley line - Pricilla Merle was found at the end of that line in Kettle Creek.  There is a 'tourist rail line' in it's place today (this is why one needs a printed map).  Will try to find when this went into use.  The same line runs to Tillsonburg where Jacqueline English was found in Big Otter Creek.

Scary thought - can you imagine a train engineer/other employee riding the rails as part of their job, able to look at the terrain in different locations where they left victims?

Will begin to make my way to Thorndale from London as suggested  Have amused myself a little on this previously re Donna Jean Awcock and Robert Bruce Stapleton.

Looking forward to exchanging thoughts/ideas.

jobo

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2010, 12:12:14 PM »
gibbons:  Something you said in your last post peeked my interest.... You mention the garage (used to be called Bear) just beyond the trestle, as being a possible spot for a perp to sit....What interested me is that you say it never seemed to be open, but specialized in front end repairs.  What if the perp owned, or worked there?  I don't want to accuse innocent people, but...why did this place always look closed?   Was it more or less a front for something more sinister?   If, by chance that was the case, then the perp would know the store closing times, and know who worked there...

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2010, 06:08:14 PM »
I would like to mention that Des first made the comparison between railroad tracks, rivers/creeks and victims found near them on 29 July 2009 on the thread for Scott Leishman.

I noticed this yesterday, so my observation of 17 February 2010 is not a first.

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2010, 06:48:29 PM »
There is so much information to share on the idea of railroad tracks, rivers/creeks and found victims, so will try to break my thoughts down into short posts.

Jacqueline English.  Age 15.
Found Big Otter Creek at Highway #3, Tillsonburg on 9 October 1969.
Last seen Wellington Road near London Ice House 4 October 1969, getting into a car.
A train trestle crosses the creek at this location.
Big Otter Creek is 48 kms long from Otterville (north and east of Tillsonburg) to Port Burwell.

Pricilla Merle.  Age 21.
Found Kettle Creek, north of Port Stanley 18 March 1972, and mid April 1972 and more after that.
Last seen 4 March 1972 in London, getting into a car.
The same train line runs from Tillsonburg to Port Stanley.

Scott Leishman.  Age 16.  Lived in Thorndale.
Found Port Burwell Harbor, part of Big Otter Creek at Lake Erie 15 May 1968.
Last seen London 15 February 1968.
Port Burwell is east of Port Stanley and is part of Big Otter Creek, running from Tillsonburg.
Scott should be listed first.  I listed him third with this theory - could Scott have been placed in Big Otter Creek at Tillsonburg and carried less than 48 kms in the 3 months he was missing by the spring run-off?  Is there any way to know where his body was placed in Big Otter Creek?
There are no train lines that I can find in or near Port Burwell.

More victims found in similar circumstances to follow - this is not confined to London, Ontario area.

Woodland

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Re: Comparing MOs in Canada - Unsolved
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 09:03:28 AM »
Frankie Jensen. Age 9.
Found Thames River near Thorndale on 9 April 1968.
Last seen walking to school in London 9 February 1968.
A railroad runs north-south and parallel to the Thames River from Fanshawe Lake to Thorndale and beyond.
On google maps it appears the river could be visible from the train for most of this leg of the line.

Donna Jean Awcock.  Age 17.
Found Fanshawe Dam, 15m down an embankment in October 1983.
Last seen leaving convenience store in London 13 October 1983.
The same railroad that runs from London to north of Thorndale, passes close to the dam on Fanshawe Lake.

There is a switching station just west of Yarmouth Centre to connect the railroad from Tillsonburg (Jacqueline English with small possibility of Scott Leishman) to the line that runs along the Thames River.