Author Topic: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach  (Read 182604 times)

capeheart

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2009, 09:37:03 PM »
This has to be so traumatic for the family. To have someone just disappear without a trace, with all of their belongings right there. It actually sounds like someone was following her home and just took her with them. I feel so sorry for you not knowing what happened to her. It sure would be on your mind every waking moment. God bless you at this time and help you get through this. Have you thought about contacting a psychic, I believe there are some good ones in the area you live in. Maybe they can help you know what has happened to her. I do hope you have help in getting some answers. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

daisygirl

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 08:33:36 PM »
I was reading about Penny, I believe somewhere someone said her dog was left tied up outside.  My feeling is if someone had adducted Penny, do you think they would have bothered or even thought about tying up the dog.   Or did she maybe slip into the waters, and could not get out, I know that is a horrible thought, and maybe the water froze over.  That is  very fast flowing  waters there, and by the time the waters were searched, she could be anywhere.  As you say the first 24 hrs are crucial, but when you report a missing adult, they don't generally looked for days later, hoping that they show up, which most do.  So if the police won't go looking for an adult in the first 24 hrs, what are you to do?

Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 09:44:03 PM »
Thank you for your thoughts. I don't have much information from the investigation side, but there is discrepancy among stories in the news and from people on her Facebook page regarding the dog being tied up. First, I don't believe Penny tied her dog up, as a rule. She would walk the dog to the back dumpster to go potty. The dog was found outside, so it should probably be clarified if the dog actually was on the leash Penny walked the dog with or not. Then it needs to be deciphered whether someone looking for or visiting Penny may have found the dog wandering outside and tied the dog to some structure knowing something was not right and not wanting the dog to get lost. This could have happened by a visitor, the co-worker that come to check on Penny, a old neighbor who was called by the children when they were informed of Penny missing, or the authorities who were responding to the call. At any rate, it probably was not Penny who tied the dog up outside on such a cold day in that location.  It would seem a good question to get resolution on, though.  What leash was used, the one by the door, or the walking leash. This would be an important piece of information. If it was the leash by the door, why was the dog tied up elsewhere with it? If it was the walking leash, the question is why would the dog be tied up with that leash?  Who was the first person to discover the dog? Who tied the dog up? Also, when was the leash on the dog? Was it on her when she was first discovered, or did someone find a leash to tie her up with upon discovery? 

As far as her falling into the river, the family as a general rule believe this to be highly unlikely. Although it was a cold and snowy week, Penny has weathered many decades in the area on cold and snowy days alongside the river fronts. She lived in this location for years and many snowy, wintery seasons. If the weather is too dangerous she has the option of other avenues to access away from the river. She does not walk across the river for McDonalds or have any destination over the river to be haphazardly walking across the water/ice. She has likely heard many unfortunate stories about others who haphazardly walked on the ice, likely causing her to to be cautious as well. A co-worker mentioned that she was very concerned about the water and ice coming closer to the house, so days before her disappearance she was cautious about the river already. The fact that the dog was with her--a dog she genuinely loved and would protect--also indicates she wouldn't take chances. She walks up the steps many times to provide relief for her dog, with her dog. She is cold by nature and likes to be snuggly warm. Her coat was by the door so she didn't have any reason to not just grab it if she was intending to go outside with the dog. The odd item is that Penny did not have her coat on. But she had her boots on. On such a cold day, it would seem to me she wouldn't just walk the dog that distance for potty wearing only a housecoat and boots. Would you? I wouldn't. Also, if she was walking the dog on a walking leash why didn't she have her coat on already? If the dog was on the walking leash and Penny fell into the river, don't we all believe there would not have been time to let go. The dog would have likely fell in, too?  She would have never let the dog outside without supervision, from what I understand. So the question becomes, why was the dog outside? How did the dog get outside? Why would the dog be tied up far outside the door on a walking leash? Was there any indication that the dog had been wandering around, indicating she was later tied?  These items, to me, indicate something else occurred that only her housecoat and boots were missing and her dog was outside. It seems to me she didn't have time to grab her coat. And, I don't think she would have her dog leashed until she was ready to go outside. How did her dog get outside when she wasn't ready yet to take the dog outside? It seems unlikely she would have opened her door if she wasn't ready to go outside because she wouldn't want her dog to venture out without her. Why was her door open? She wouldn't have wanted the dog outside until she was ready to supervise the dog's walk. She wouldn't put a leash on her dog until her coat was on. She wouldn't have anchored the dog to the reported location if she didn't have her coat on. In fact, had she ever leashed her dog there before? Something doesn't add up.

Another item for thought would be whether she would have taken her cell phone and/or cigarettes with her to walk the dog. Were those items with her or still in the house? What would she have likely brought outside with her, routinely? Did she?

Again, I don't have word from the authorities. These are just questions that come to mind, once you brought them to my attention and after reviewing the news reports again. Thank you for caring. For suggesting. For helping to question items. Maybe there is a clue there.

Sleuth

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 10:32:56 PM »
Welcome back Concerned, and thanks for your well thought out questions. Do you live close enough to go knocking on neighbours doors, or Penny's friends and relatives? I'm being cautious on what I write here because I know the Police don't like Mr and Mrs Public snooping into, what is after all, what they get paid for. But sometimes, a person has to take the bull by the horn and quietly do what they feel they have to do, but staying safe in the process. Good luck and keep us posted.

Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2009, 11:07:30 PM »
From what I understand from the news articles there were extensive searches that included walking the river front, knocking on doors, posting posters all throughout the surrounding area, talking to local businesses, checking garbage dumps and dumpsters, abandoned cottages, parks, neighborhoods, hospitals, shelters, roadways and walkways.  Vigils, fundraisers, community gatherings and social networking. Friends, neighbors, co-workers, and family have all posted thoughts on the public Facebook page. The authorities performed impressive air, ground, on water, under water, dog assisted searches. It doesn't appear any major discoveries have been aired. Staying safe is relative to not knowing what you are up against.

Has anyone heard the resolve of the Joyce Burns missing persons case. Joyce Burns is a 50 year old from Sudbury area, reportedly missing July 12th. She was last seen with an unknown mail in the Isabel area, reportedly had an unknown internet date taking her to Wasaga Beach, and was to return on July 14th. She did not show up for work. Her family reported her missing and stated the behavior is unlike her. A link to a story can be found at http://www.sudbury24.ca/media/3192/Missing_Woman/
http://www.sudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1661021
http://www.thesudburystar.com/Blogs/PrintBlog.aspx?BlogID=4251
http://www.police.sudbury.on.ca/archive.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248118521&archive=1251722257&start_from=&ucat=1&








Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2009, 06:11:20 AM »
Thanks for checking on the weather. That is good to know.

It appears Penny made it home from work and was after she was in sleep wear because her work clothes were not missing. Her car was in the drive where she normally parks. He purse, wallet, cell and coat were inside as if she had thrown them where she normally does when she enters the house. It appears she was in comfortable sleepwear. It sounds like her housecoat was that very light flimsy cotton button up type you throw on for a light cover up you don't necessarily want to be seen in. Way too light to wear outside, much less be seen outside in since it is likely there was not much underneath. She was a vain person that didn't like to be seen without make-up and semi flattering appropriate wear. She certainly like to curl her hair before company arrived. The part of the property she takes the dog to for potty is not in the immediate pathways around the house she lived it, it is on the far edge of the property. There is a road with a line of lightly scattered trees and the dumpster is by the sidewalk/roadway and easily seen by many other house/cottages in the area and where many park to enter their residences. She takes the dog there so she can easily scoop the mess up and place it in the dumpster.  I don't think she would likely wander that distance, in that kind of clothing, in clear view of many houses and passing vehicles without covering up for vanity, as much as warmth.  She surely wouldn't tie the dog on a leash halfway, what is the purpose?

I question what made her come to the door?  Was the dog barking? Was someone at the door? Was she putting on her boots on and trying to grab her coat to address the person at the door and cover up? Was she going to take the dog out for another potty run but only got her boots on and not her coat yet? It seems if she was not in a rush she would have put her coat on before grabbing a leash to put on the dog. 

It just appears to me that the answer lies in the coat, boots, and when/how dog was put on a leash. If the dog was never put on the leash, chances are she was just answering the door. If the dog was on the leash, she was taking the dog for a potty run. She just doesn't leave the dog on a leash outside by herself, there.

Having said that, I'm also wondering how many woman that live alone, live a semi-private life, go missing while at their house? No sign of break-in. What is the profile of a perpetrator that does that? Who in that area fits that profile?

February 11 was a Wednesday, and the co-worker didn't notice her missing until she didn't show up for work on Friday and Sunday. Sunday the co-worker went to her house. I'm just curious, what was the weather like in those days after February 11? What type of weather was the dog in outside by itself for those days?


capeheart

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2010, 08:26:15 PM »
I believe that Penny was abducted. I also believe that someone tied the dog outside. The dog could have been there when she came home. She may have given her address to someone on the internet and they followed her home from her job. Why do people give their addresses on the net. If she wanted to meet someone, go for a coffee where there are lots of people in the daytime hours. It is very suspicious that there is also another woman missing that was meeting someone through internet connection. This is scary and nobody may ever know what happened to Penny. It must be terrible to live with this day after day, not knowing what happened to her.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 08:58:06 PM »
I think so, too.

Why are women over 30, 40, 50, 70 missing, without a clue?  From their homes? When nobody is around? Uncharacteristically.

Why is it so hard to find out why? To stop it?

Nobody, at any age, should go missing.

How many could have been prevented?

Will we be asking these same questions, a year from now? And forever after?

lostlinganer

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 09:42:39 AM »
You are soooo right concerned.  That about says it all. >:( :'(

capeheart

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 08:09:32 PM »
I just do not understand why there is not a special program with about two minutes to each case, which could cover about 30 cases from departments all across the country about women that are missing, that just disappeared off the face of the earth so to say. A program could be done to cover everyone who is missing in the country and if it had to be done once a week until every case was covered, so be it. But the country must be made aware of so many missing. Because we are on this site and are talking about the disappearance of women and men in this country, others are not so aware. More information should be made available to everyone about the missing. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Chris

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 10:29:40 PM »
I was told once, in these kinds of cases, most of time, the police know who, but not enough to charge them.

Sleuth

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 11:02:14 PM »
Unfortunately so Concerned. There is good and evil inside everyone, it is the part which is fed most which emerges.

I think so, too.

Why are women over 30, 40, 50, 70 missing, without a clue?  From their homes? When nobody is around? Uncharacteristically.

Why is it so hard to find out why? To stop it?

Nobody, at any age, should go missing.

How many could have been prevented?

Will we be asking these same questions, a year from now? And forever after?

Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2010, 07:00:21 PM »
It seems that people that abduct, didn't just start thinking about it yesterday. They've planned. They've prepared. They've likely done it before. They have anti-social behaviors. They need some satisfaction, money, or power. Their psychies are predictable. Their habits, greed and lack of compassion are noticeable. They lack morals, ethics, good character, and genuine goodness. They likely will do it again. In today's day and age, they can't go unnoticed. And, if under the radar, hopefully we've trained ourselves that they won't get away with it again.

Technology, past relationships, days off work, reasons for days off work, habits, new behavior, patterns, likes, all are things that with today's technology, profiles and psychologists should be able to be easily broken through. And, if their privacy is protected, their behavior is allowed because we don't have the right procedures in place or the right laws, the correct punishment...shame on us. The price we pay is too large, and the burden of the heart unbearable. We need to help eachother get better at getting these people off the streets.

Shwa

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2010, 08:42:38 AM »
But we can't infringe on everyone's rights to try and detect a very tiny percentage of the population nor can we arrest anyone for being anti-social or having ideas that greatly conflict with ours. (except within the present law).

However I think that great changes are coming with regard to detection and prevention.  The ubiquitous nature of personal technologies such as cell phones, GPS systems, DNA registration and detection and other crime detection methods are allowing us to be more comfortable with the idea of a basic level of monitoring.  That is, people are OK with using cell phones even though the police could zero in on you in a few minutes now.  How long before GPS chips are sewn into clothing or some other place that cannot be removed by criminals?  How long before discreet personal safety monitoring devices are carried that alert a central office or the police with a push of a button?  I think we'll see the widespread acceptance of these devices within the decade.

Some will refuse to use them of course - like some refuse to use cell phones - but if you have nothing to hide then there should be no reason to worry.  The other side is that for every postive step there will be those that will try and defeat such systems with electronic jamming devices and so on.  However, even with cell technology as it is nowadays, some countermeasures would be very difficult for the average criminal to obtain or use undetected.


Concerned

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Re: FOUND - Penny Warne - 57 - Missing - Feb 11, 2009 - Wasaga Beach
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2010, 05:52:38 PM »
You bring me hope. Thank you.