Author Topic: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw  (Read 50177 times)

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 01:56:00 PM »
me - Cannington is one corner of the square.

Small correction on your coordinates - it's 8.8 kms from where Debbie Silverman was found (RR13 and C3) to where Christine Jessop was found (RR2 and C4) - 7 kms east-west and 1.8 kms north-south.

24 kms would be more the distance between Debbie Silverman and Robert Brown (RR23 and C12) or Christine Jessop and Robert Brown (did not measure this when I drove the route a couple of weeks ago).

Now that you mention it, Uxbridge does ring a bell with me as well.  Look forward to what you can find, if anything further south on RR23.

Shwa

  • Member
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2009, 07:09:54 AM »
I believe the pattern is in the history of the family ties to this area.  I am in the process of writing a thesis that will include what the historical ties are - it's a slow process but my writer and I are getting there.

The most prominent historical family name in Brock Township (the square) is St John - at one time they owned a great deal of this territory and descendants are still there.  It's an honor to pass on the surname or use as a middle name.  It's a fascinating legacy to be included in - I'm working on how it would be a real bummer to be denied this legacy if you in fact had the bloodline but were denied the surname.

I am not quite sure if I understand you.  Are you saying that the St John family could be implicated somehow in these crimes?

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2009, 07:30:28 AM »
No, not at all - I'm sorry if it read that way.

There has to be a reason this area was chosen - I do know that a family I have had suspicions about all along gave a family member the middle name 'John St John' - a name that goes prominently with the area.

This family has at least one other blood tie to Concession 4 (where Christine Jessop was found) in the past - too coincidental for me.

Hope this more clear.

Shwa

  • Member
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2009, 06:43:15 AM »
Interestingly enough, no, it doesn't clarify it.   ???

I know a family in Durham with the same name(s), but in south Durham.

When I lived in the Ottawa region decades ago, they used to find murder victims from Montreal in the Gatineau foothills, just across the river from Ottawa.  The pattern there was one of convenience since it was sparsely populated, within a couple hours drive and had long stretches of empty forest. (Usually the victims were the wrong-side-of-the-mafia types.)  The weird thing is - despite all that - the bodies were discovered anyways.

The area you speak about - while it may be cultivated farmland - could also be one of convenience.  Once a perpeptrator used it once and didn't get caught, they could have decided that it was a good spot.

The other pattern was one of victim profile: young boy - young woman - young girl.  I am not sure how these three tie together in any coherent way.  I am not saying that murders necessarily have to be coherent, but from what I understand serial killers work on patterns and this doesn't readily seem to fit any.

There is the possibility that this area was shared amongst a group of people as a 'known' safe area to dump victims.  I don't want to irresponsibly raise any sort of weird conspiracy theory, but there were rumours that a widespread pedophile community (for lack of a better word) existed in Toronto up until the early 80's.  It could be that such people exchanged information and locations such as this could have been some of the information that was exchanged.

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2009, 08:04:16 PM »
How many found mafia victims in the Gatineau foothills are you comparing to 2 females found in Sunderland?  How many square km's are you comparing?  I'm not clear and Robert Brown is still missing.

Debbie Silverman and Robert Brown both went missing from an area with a direct and easy route to Queensville and Christine Jessop went missing from Queensville.  The route from Queensville to Sunderland is not direct but easy.  I can place one family in the vicinity of all 3 victims - found or missing in a neat and tidy perfect square of geography - not easy.

I can place the same family in the vicinity of Lizzie Tomlinson - not easy.

I appreciate scepticism - I need that in order to figure out if this is the right path - but please give me something more than serial perpetrators generally have the same pattern.  Paul Bernardo was clever enough to change his MO enough not to come under suspicion even though he was questioned long before his arrest - senior cops believed the Scarborough rapist was 'nothing more' than a serial rapist.  The only reason he was caught was because he beat the crap out of his former wife who then squealed on him.  Funny how life works out.

I know I may not be correct, but no one - including the cops - has yet to prove this theory is out to lunch.

Shwa

  • Member
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 11:47:42 AM »
I think the Gatineau foothills in the vicinity of Ottawa Hull is about the same, but much more bush and empty stretches.

I am not trying to out the lights out on the theory, just trying to find a pattern that could be supported in your theory.  If it was a single serial type killer operating with some MO.  It could be multiple killers from the same family or their might have been some sort of vendetta, etc.

Coping

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 10:54:42 AM »
I have just discovered this site and must say that I am both surprised and shocked.  I am the brother of Robbie and for all of these years have thought we travelled this road pretty much on our own.  It is encouraging to learn that there are people that are actively at least thinking about Robbie and in their own way trying to help resolve this crime.  Thank you for your efforts.  I am also shocked that the list of other missing children/people is so extensive.  In 2001, I started an organization called Courage to Cope in hopes of finding and supporting other families with missing children.  This comes from the fact that very little has been done to help families cope with the ongoing pain.  In the words of one mother, "I have finally found someone who understands my pain".
Keep up the good work.

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 01:17:24 PM »
It is so nice to hear from you Coping - thank-you so much for posting.

If I may ask - do you know the name of the person who reported seeing your brother in the vicinity of Georgina Beach that day?  It could be a tremendous clue, and only you or another family member is likely to find that out - if you don't already know.  The area is so remote that I can't help but wonder about a connection to Debbie Silverman and Christine Jessop, given the perfect square formed by these 3 cases.  A connection should be ruled out at the very least.

Starting 'Courage to Cope' is a fantastic legacy to your brother - I wish you well in this endeavor.

jobo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3624
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 02:49:27 PM »
The square Woodland is talking about is quite sparsely populated. Pefferlaw, from what I can remember, is just houses in a lakefront community.. Even the towns of Sunderland and Cannington are small, and Sonya and Blackwater are/ were just dots on the map....and it is mostly farms.  It is also not a very direct route to anywhere in particular...except to visit, maybe ride the trails, or take the back roads to the Kawarthas. From what I understand, most perps stick to areas within their comfort zone.  Bare in mind there is exceptions to every rule.

Coping

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2010, 03:16:47 PM »
I was only 9 at the time.  I do know that those involved in investigating this case have not been able to find any information regarding that witness.  What was confusing to us was how a witness could have seen him heading in that direction, when to get to Wilfred you would turn left out of the campground in Pefferlaw, not right.  How could there have been witnesses see him by the beach later that same day, when it was completely in the wrong direction?  I have always felt the investigators focused on the wrong information right from the start.  Just to add a bit more to the conversation, I know that for years, everytime we moved to a new address my mother would contact the authorities to inform them of our new address.  In 2000-2001 a skull was dicovered near a new housing development around Newmarket.  It had been determined that it had possibly been there for 30 years.  I did some searching and found the lead investigator and we chatted about Robbie.  After a week of waiting for forensic studies to be completed, it was determined the remains were that of an older man because he had dentures.  The officer began to ask more questions about Robbie and was totally unaware of his case.  It turns out that when the files went from paper to digital, his file was somehow missed!!  That confirmed our greatest fear, that no one was really working that hard on finding what happened to Robbie.  It was in a box in some storage facility for all these years.  Possibly could have been solved many times over the years as unidentified bodies were discovered.

Sleuth

  • Guest
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 03:49:46 PM »
Welcome coping! Not too many of us on here are surprised to hear of Robert's files missing!!! >:( >:(  There has been more than one relative on unsolved who has mentioned boxes of files and evidence missing/lost on their loved ones. To me it's so sloppy, and disrespectful, it's like the Police are slapping families across the face when their hearts are already broken with grief and a don't care attitude about what happened to a once living person who is loved very much. But I'm glad to hear you found an officer who does care and took the time to look into your concerns. That is what it takes, a family member pushing, shoving hard to keep the police focused on the missing or murdered as they try to keep up with other day to day crimes. How are you doing? Your mother and father?

Coping

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 04:29:10 PM »
You are so very right.  It should not be a challenge to get those who should be looking out for us, to look out for us!  My father passed away about 8 years ago and my mother is still finding strength in her relationship with God.  I have been busy lately doing interviews for newspaper articles, freelance writers, TV news reports (CBC, and GTA's Most Wanted).  They are very taxing emotionally, but still important to communicate that Robbie is still not home.  We have learned in the past few years that many people from the Wilfred/Pefferlaw area thought all along that he just ran away.  They were shocked that he was still missing.  I am also writing and researching topics that might be helpful in understanding how others have coped with their tragedy.  Many would say this must be a parent's (or brothers) worst nightmare.  I don't know what it is like to have a brother die of cancer, or be killed by a drunk driver.  All I know is that this is different and I believe that it is the things that make it different that need to be explored, so we can help others.  Our counsellors and therapists are not equipped to help.  Sorry if I ramble, but I have not really had anyone to talk to about all if this!

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 05:17:22 PM »
Coping you have made 2 incredibly fundamental statements -

1. 'I do know that those involved in investigating this case have not been able to find any information regarding that witness'.

2.  'I have always felt that the investigators focused on the wrong information right from the start'.

IMO the person reporting the sighting of your brother intentionally mislead investigators.

In my research on the Christine Jessop case, the same thing happened.  In a tense, chaotic situation any witness will be believed as everyone is looking for the best outcome.  Later on, few can remember who was the first one to voice a certain point.

Alot of evidence also went missing for Christine's case - to much coincidence in to small an area for me - I have felt from the first time I read this thread there would be some sort of tie.

I hope we can speak soon on this.


Fraser

  • Member
  • Posts: 129
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 06:23:41 PM »
For Coping - my heart goes out to you and your family. I cannot imagine the pain you have all gone through in all these years. I really hope someone here can help.
Take care

Coping

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Robert James Brown - August 3, 1968 - Age 12 - Missing - Pefferlaw
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 06:49:44 PM »
We lived right in Wilfred, on the main road which is about 2 miles outside of Pefferlaw on the way to Cannington.  According to the testimony of those claiming to have seen him, it would have been late afternoon on August 3, 1968.  He was going home from the camp to deliver his newspapers and planned on being finished in time for supper.  That is why it makes no sense that he was seen by the beach.  My hunch has always been that he was seen there during the day with my mother and sister, but not later in the day by himself.  The twist in all of this is that according to the police, there were eye witnesses that knew him, who saw him heading in the wrong direction.