Author Topic: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)  (Read 24109 times)

oldentimeragain

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2010, 12:04:52 AM »
There are a number of ideas that could be made to fit the facts known to the public.  Only the police know all that is in this file. The car idea is a good lead, but as stated in the newspaper it is nearly the only lead, so it sounds that it was a dead end. The car could have been stolen.  Bestcho seems to have spent time around the RCMP, so likely knows how they work in these matters better than most.  He has noted some ideas that have been posted. For someone to remember from this far away, they had to be very impressed by what they saw or heard. A large number of people read these posts, and may have some facts that they will not, or are reluctant, to express on a forum like this.  The posters may have some knowledge they will not expose on this forum.  I think it is a good idea to have any theory expressed even if it doesn't fit the facts that some people are aware of. Maybe other people know more than expressed here.  Lets hear all possible facts and ideas, perhaps they are near to the truth and may awaken a memory of a reader.

oldentimeragain

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2010, 12:40:04 AM »
There have been no followup posts here for sometime.  I want to outline some of the facts and speculation to try bring forward any information or rekindle interest in solving this.

Carmen is a Burnside road bus rider and boards near the Ingraham after her work.
Suspect likely drinks at Ingraham and saw her there.
Suspect also rides Burnside Road bus to his residence.
Suspect trails Carmen on the bus, doesn't get off at his regular stop, and learns where she departs bus.
Suspect gets a car to "pick up" Carmen.
Carmen refuses and argues with suspect, witnessed by a person who helps Police.
Suspect recruits a partner to help, plans on getting Carmen into his car
Suspects wait near Holland avenue bus stop, until she appears.  They may have lead the bus, having watched for her to board.
Abduct Carmen,  things get out of control, murder and dispose of body.
Suspects stay in area, try to blend in, or tie up any loose ends they think they may have left.
Sketch appears in newspaper, suspects vanish.

Leads:

Unemployment insurance records?
Welfare records?
Car  registration records?
Sketch?

Any other ideas or scenerios that may fit the facts?


Chris

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7215
  • The Webmaster
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2010, 01:46:44 PM »
Very good. You'd think someone out there must remember something, but does not want to get involved. I hope they do. It would be nice to solve this.

lostlinganer

  • Member
  • Posts: 3867
  • Silence, in the face of injustice is complicity wi
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2010, 03:50:07 PM »
nice to see you again oldentimer - I'm glad you pulled this back up every once in a while.  I would like to know just how accurate this suspect sketch is.... reason being .... it reminds me of a "younger face" of someone else who was posted about on this site and had to be taken off.  Melody would know the suspect I'm referring to.

oldentimeragain

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2010, 12:19:22 AM »
lostlinganer

That may be an avenue to follow up,  try to find the picture you refer to, could be a connection.  Maybe will will get more posts of similar pictures.

solvy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2010, 02:54:00 PM »
this info just came up- great to see police are looking for new info.

West Shore
1973 Missing Person-Carmen ROBINSON-Request for Assistance from Public
Share |
File # 1973-701-31
2010-11-02 08:59 PDT

West Shore RCMP Major Crime Unit continues to investigate the disappearance of Carmen ROBINSON on December 8, 1973. ROBINSON was 17-years-old at the time of her disappearance and was last seen near the intersection of Holland Avenue and West Burnside Road in View Royal, British Columbia.

West Shore RCMP Major Crime Unit is seeking assistance from the public in locating anyone who may have stayed, lived, or rented at the residence located at 830 Lavender Ave., Saanich British Columbia in 1973.

It is believed a couple by the name of Robert and Edith Wilson were the registered property owners at that time. Mr. and Mrs. Wilson are not suspects in this matter but investigators would like to speak with them or any of their surviving family members in the event they may be able to assist in this investigation.

Anyone who may have the contact information for Robert or Edith Wilson (or surviving family members) or anyone who lived at the residence in 1973 is asked to contact West Shore RCMP at 250-474-2264.

Released by

Cst. J.E. (Julie) Chanin
Community Policing Section
West Shore RCMP Detachment
698 Atkins Avenue, Victoria, BC V9B 3A4
Office: (250) 391-3305
Fax: (250) 391-3308
Email: bcrcmp@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

VICVI47

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 01:03:58 PM »
Clifford Olsen was living in Victoria at the time of the disappearance according to these posts. This crime would be about 7 years before his first known victim was found somewhere around 1980.  The MO of his later crimes fits this one quite well.
It's way too much of a coincidence that 2 psycho killers were living in a community as small as this one back then, I just don't buy it. I also doubt he started his reign of terror in 1980.  Olsen was born in 1940 so he would have been 33 at the time this crime was committed. He spent an awful lot ot of time in and out of jail but I believe he was free at the time of her disappearance.

Sijiazhentan

  • Guest
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2010, 06:34:39 PM »
I found an online obituary from June of this year for a Mr. Robert Melvin "Bob" Wilson. The obituary is from the Toronto Star and reveals that Mr. Wilson was predeceased by a spouse named Edith Elizabeth (Letts/Dutton) Wilson. Interestingly, you will note from the obituary that it appears that Mr. & Mrs. Wilson had a child named Janice Lillian (Wilson) Chafe - this daughter is said to have died in 1972, one year prior to Carmen Robinson's disappearance:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?n=robert-melvin-wilson-bob&pid=143251002

You will also note that the couple had a son from Edith Wilson's previous marriage named Gary Richard Dutton. He is also deceased, however, it appears Gary Dutton's wife (Margaret Dutton) is still alive, though barely. She is seen on this facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/Margaret.M.Dutton

Her facebook page was found by searching Facebook for the name "Mark S. Dutton" who is referenced in the obituary as being Robert Wilson's grandson. You may find his facebook page and other websites here:

http://www.facebook.com/Mark.S.Dutton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Dutton
http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=2611040
http://www.myspace.com/duttonchess

Mark Dutton is shown on these pages to be residing in Victoria, British Columbia. Mark Dutton's current residence is the only suggestion that his extended family may have had ties to Victoria in their history and is why I am presenting these details to your attention. Hopefully, the Robert and Edith Wilson mentioned in the obituary, are the ones RCMP are looking for.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:43:28 PM by Sijiazhentan »

justice

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2010, 07:14:25 PM »
This may be far-fetched or totally unrelated, but can someone read Pamela Darlington's topic and see reply 6, just when I read about the guy following the person who replied sister on the bus, made me think..and the timeline...but I am not familiar with these areas, are they far apart?

BCID

  • Guest
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2011, 01:57:03 PM »
I'll add a few points to this.

From my understanding, the Ingy bar was used mainly by the working class although I won't deny there could have been the unemployed. When our work day was done, my boss and his friends would go off to the Ingy to drink.

And to VICV who said the possibility of two potential killers in such a small town is too much of a coincidence, it isn't. I have spent years researching the news from the city of Victoria and you would be amazed at those who have killed in the past here whom I consider fit the profile of someone who could kill again. So having two isn't a stretch.

And I don't believe she would be transported off the island. I believe she is still here. At that time, the western communities (like Langford) were considered the boonies. There were tons of wooded areas and large acrerage where a body could be easily buried. The western communities were right next door. In the mid-late 70's a convicted rapist used Sooke (a bit further away) to dispose of smeone whom he left for dead. I say convicted rapist because there was insufficient evidence to convicted for attempted murder.

And Sijiazhentan, did you pass along this research to the RCMP? That is a fantastic find.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 02:01:04 PM by BCID »

oldentimeragain

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2011, 11:53:52 PM »
BCID
Good to see people are still working on this case.  "Scotty" Gardiner the retired RCMP superintendent devotes a chapter of his book " In The Mind of a Mountie" to Clifford Olson, as well as discusses the Robinson case. As part of the plea deal Olson was brought to Victoria to identify a body dump location.  Gardiner states "Olson without difficulty directed the investigators to the Colwood area. He appeared to be sincere, but claimed property development made him confused. One point he made was an umbrella was left at or near the body. That had no known significance.  The area to which he directed the investigators was, in 1973, of sparse enough development and with wooded lands towards the Fort Rodd Hill Historic Site such that a body could have been concealed there."  Gardiner also states: "Leaving her part time evening employment, she had travelled homeward to the View Royal area, west on Burnside Road on the last bus.  It was somewhere around 11:00 pm when she left the bus, it was at the end of the route, she was alone.  The bus driver watched as she walked down the road until his vision was lost in the night's darkness.  The girl was never seen again."

Earlier posts tried to determine the time of the disappearance, this will confirm the time.  Also she was alone, no other passengers.  Clearly the abductor(s) were waiting somewhere between the stop and her nearby home.  They must have planned the abduction to precisely know when and where she would be and where to stop her.

oldentimeragain

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2011, 12:29:20 AM »
Some Internet research provides the following:  Nov 15 2010. Goldstream News Gazette.
  A potential lead was followed and considered to leave the case cold.. The RCMP wanted to speak to John or Edith Wilson who resided at 830 Lavender Avenue,  Victoria, in 1973.  A granddaughter surfaced and claimed her grandmother, then in her 70's lived at this address and had few visitors.  Lavender Avenue appears to be about one block from Burnside Road, where the bus travelled.  Anyone living there may have taken the Burnside bus.  Lavender also appears to be within one or two kilometers of Holland Avenue.  I wonder how precise the granddaughter 's memory is on the time frame? Maybe her Grandmother moved from this residence, before the disappearance, and the supects(s) lived there?  Maybe the bearded man or Clifford Olson?  Or maybe there is some other connection between the house and the suspect(s). Perhaps there is someone in that area still who might have some remembrance of what happend or who lived at that address? 

leonagleant

  • Member
  • Posts: 808
    • View Profile
Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2011, 06:25:41 PM »
I wonder if Carmen's remains or something pertaining to her was discovered at that particular address many years later? Is there any update on the above information?