Author Topic: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)  (Read 21912 times)

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2010, 08:40:27 AM »
Is this the drawing oldtimer? I found three ....Carmen... I think the suspect....and the place Carmen went missing.

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2010, 12:38:36 PM »
Thanks for the pic's Lostlinganer. Now there's a face only a mother could love. He looks to be a lumberjack to me and French Canadian. That's a spooky place to be hopping on and off a bus. I'd take nerves of steel to be walking down that road and always looking over your shoulder. I'm not able to find in the searches the time she was dropped off or the time she left work? Anyone know? There should be another blitz concerning this once young lovely lady. I haven't found any articles oldentimeragain whether or not any new information was brought in which would help find Carmen's abductor. Actually I haven't found any. I'll have to do a deeper search when I have a couple more minutes.  Carmen did get on the bus for certain? Maybe some one she knew on a casual basis offered her a ride home when she was waiting for the bus after work?
Lostinganer, I took another look at that ugly mug, why does it seem familiar? There's something nagging in the back of my mind about that pic. Is there another pic out there similar to another suspect? Why would the Police put a man in the bus waiting pic instead of a young girl? The Police are such nincompoops sometimes.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 12:46:30 PM by Sleuth »

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2010, 04:15:23 PM »
Sleuth; that's not necessarily a "bus waiting" pic.  That's the little stretch where Carmen disappeared.  It might also be the bus stop though because of that man standing there waiting???

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2010, 09:28:12 PM »
Those are the pictures from the Times Colonist. The sketch looks to me to be Italian or southern European background. I agree Sleuth, the police need to revist this and try to contact people from that time.  It would take a considerable resource to try to find people who lived in these areas now, but sometimes families don't move for years. The areas along the bus route, places they may have frequented, or the small grocery stores they may have used. A place to start should be the Ingrahm and follow the route to Holland Ave. Finding owners or employees from that time seems unlikely. Employees of the Ingraham pub from those days, could have seen someone like the drawing. Or someone remembers some people who skipped out on there rent suddenly and left without notice.  Small things that may add up with other small clues to give a way ahead.

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2010, 12:21:19 AM »
Do you live close enough to go snooping oldentimeragain? Does nobody know about this bus!!!!!  ::) ::) Or what time Carmen left work? Anyone? Someone? The only thing I know about buses is; I'm generally behind them, and I don't mean running after one.

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2010, 09:13:52 PM »
Sleuth, the newspaper article says it was night when she got off the bus at Holland Ave.  This was winter, and that meant it was dark early.  Could have been anywhere from 5 pm to midnight. A private indivigual won't be able to accomplish anything. This needs resources to search old property records, archives, city directories, census records, to find related people.  Old BC Hydro(bus) or BC transit employee records, it's a big job. Then to locate people and interview them.  Probably it would need someone full time. I think that unless the police believe they have a good chance of finding out something, they won't put too much resources into it. There must be eye witnesses to these people, but unless something really struck them as important, they won't remember.  To find someone who does, would take lots of effort. One way may be to put it out to the public again, and ask for anyone who remembers the time and that area. People who once lived there.

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 09:32:21 PM »
Reading over my early posts, one thought has arisen.  These abductors didn't have jobs.  There was Unemployment Insurance available then, and welfare.  They may have been drawing one of these benefits.  These records would be held in an archive.  Names would match address's along this bus route and in the associated areas.  A search of these old records may provide some names to be checked out.  Also the police records of the case may point to certain areas of interest. Anyone on these forums with a enough background to suggest if any of these ideas are workable?

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2010, 09:54:02 PM »
oldtimeragain; of course these ideas are workable but - there's that but~lol
all the individuals records are private and confidencial, except to the police and government.  I doubt the police would go that far.... that is to say ...theorize that the crime might have been done by a person out of work.  They would have to start with every address on the bus route and cross reference it with UI (which it was then...now it's EI) and then community welfare, then Provincial Welfare .... unless they had specific tip/s that it was somebody on the bus route that was unemployed, they probably would not see fit to put the man hours into it.... too much cost. 

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2010, 10:04:13 PM »
I agree with Lost, that would turn into someone's career. oldentimeragian you have mentioned a couple of times about person(s) and explained why. But I don't think it would take more than one person to abduct someone, for example the recent case of Donna, and so many more. And if Carmen knew this person, she wouldn't think twice about hoping into his car, if he said, 'hop in. I'll give you a ride home.' Dark, cold, tired after work, 'you bet!'. And in she hops. Some men are just plain old bastards, well not necessarily old...........

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2010, 10:14:55 PM »
The reason I believe two were responsible is the evidence of the argument.  Carmen had resisted some attempted action from the sketch suspect.  Would she have gone into his car willingly a few days later? What the police need is an address or likely area that the suspect(s) frequented to start from.  Anyone out there have some information, some memory of someone who matched the sketch?  I argee that this would take huge resources or a long time, but I believe these are the only methods open to find the abductors, unless someone knows who they are and is withholding that information.  Do the police have the will to do this?

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2010, 10:46:38 PM »
No the Police don't have the will. It's not like it was once, when a Police Officer was dogged and determined to find a culprit and spend his spare time looking. Now they clock out and head for a bar. To them the past is the past so let it lie while they take care of the donuts, I mean, the day to day crime.  :P

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2010, 10:49:06 PM »
You may be getting bogged down with this man seen arguing with Carmen. Maybe it wasn't this man, but another man. The Police only had an argument to run with.

bestcho

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »
Hey all. Perhaps you all may be over thinking this one. Appreciate the fact that there was and is only one way to get off the island. Ferry. It's highly unlikely that someone would chance taking a body onto the ferry. The vehicles mentioned, were not huge production vehicles. Therefore the obvious place to start is to find all those matching from the area of where the bumper sticker was from, and then cross referencing that with the vehicle registrations that may have been transferred to Vancouver island over the years. Likely not a huge list. The next possible search is to identify the type of clientelle that hung around that bar in those days. were they fishermen, dock workers, and did it cater to a specific group?. The trouble with having a personal theory about a case, is that you will likely spend a large amount of time chasing non existant clues. I am not suggesting that we not discuss cases, because that indeed may tweak a clue or a fact. But before going off on wild goose chases, think of the likelyhood of the events. The vast majority of murders and/or abductions are not well planned out actions of highly intelligent psychos. They are merely crimes of opportunity. Even prolific serial killers, usually do not have a full set of plans lade out like in the movies. They simply attack out of availability. That's what makes them so difficult to solve because they are so random. Simply by chance. Wrong place wrong time. Aquaintances are too easily tracked down, as a rule.

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2010, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote
Investigator Bruce Brown took over the file in the 1980s. Detectives tried something unusual -- they hypnotized a woman who claimed to have seen Robinson arguing with a man on Helmcken Road two days before she disappeared.

The witness described a man with a swarthy complexion, black hair and a full beard. She said Robinson got into his car, an early '70s Chevy Nova or Plymouth Duster painted burnt orange.

"If I see one of those, I still write the licence plate down," said Brown, now retired and serving as B.C.'s deputy police complaint commissioner.

The car had a bumper sticker with the name Ferguson. With help from the public, police matched the sticker to a school board election in B.C.'s interior. It still remains one of only leads in the case.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 05:41:27 PM by lostlinganer »

bestcho

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2010, 05:51:41 AM »
Hi again Des. I wasn't suggesting that the guy in the car isn't a suspect. In fact I was suggestin that that lead shouldn't be that difficult to try and track down. With the provincial registry data base that process should only take but a few minutes. I would think (and pray) that the police have addressed that lead. But maybe not. What I was questioning, was a few of the theories that were posted, with no evidence to even suggest they may be clues.
Part of the problem, (and lawyers and the courts will admit this), is that witnesses can be unintentially totally incorrect. For instance. A bus driver gets used to seeing an attractive young girl getting on his bus a few times a week for months. The familiarity of seeing her every day makes everyone somewhat complacent to detail. Then all of a sudden, police question the driver about specific details about (to him) a non descript event that occurred a few weeks before. His info is at least questionable. I think often about these little details. We quite possibly have all been witnesses to a crime, and not even known it.  But quite honestly, if a police officer asked me today, where I was and what was I doing a week ago yesterday at 9p.m.. I really couldn't give him reliable info or details. Especially if the event occurred but didn't appear to be extremely out of the ordinary.   I try to be the devils advocate in order to promote an exchange of logical processes, not to stifle an exchange of ideas. If we continue to do what I think is the purpose of this site, and that is to have an intelligent sharing of ideas, perhaps we may stumble accross something that an investigator hasn't thought of. And just maybe, one of these cases will come to a timely and proper conclusion. Lets hope.