Author Topic: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)  (Read 21913 times)

BC Ident

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ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« on: November 30, 2008, 03:51:35 AM »
Carmen Robinson

Age (At Time of Disappearance):
17-years old

Date of Disappearance:
December 8, 1973

Location of Disappearance:
West Burnside Road & Holland Avenue, View Royal municiplaity, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Physical Description:
Caucasian female, long blond hair.



Circumstances:

Carmen was a dishwasher at the Ingraham Hotel located on Douglas St. near Burnside Rd. East (now a Super 8 hotel).

She finished her shift and stepped out into the night. She caught the bus home and was dropped off on West Burnside Rd. near Holland Ave., just a short distance from her house. She hasn't been seen since.

A person of interest wanted for questioning by the police is a man a witness had reported seeing in an argument with carmen on Helmcken Road two days before her disappearance.

Description of the individual is as follows:

Male, swarthy complexion, black hair, full beard.

He drove a 1970's Chevy Nova or Plymouth Duster painted burnt orange. There was a bumper sticker with the name "Ferguson" on it who the police learned was a candidate for a school board election in the B.C. interior.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 12:22:56 AM by Chris »

BC Ident

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Re: 1973-12-08, Robinson, Carmen - missing
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 03:56:17 AM »
Photo of Carmen can be found at the Time Colonist website or at this location:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightCanada/index.php?showtopic=3199

waabzy

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Re: 1973-12-08, ROBINSON, Carmen - missing
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 11:38:12 AM »
PHOTO of Carmen Robinson

Adrian

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Re: 1973-12-08, ROBINSON, Carmen - missing
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 12:37:40 PM »


Thanks guys, I wonder if the man she was seen quarelling with, is the fellow who may have taken her, or abducted her. Maybe she knew him from work?

I was pretty young then, and we didn't often think too much of danger, as we do now a days. I talked to everybody. Always looked for the good, and usually found it. Today, I am more careful, but I still look for the good, till I get hit with the bad.

That could be plain old gut reactions, feelings of danger, fear, or something just not right.I don't know what happened to this gal, but feel she met up with a bad guy.  :(

BC Ident

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Re: 1973-12-08, ROBINSON, Carmen - missing
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 03:08:29 PM »
My personal view is she either knew her abductor, the abductor knew her or knew of her.

The person(s) whoever they may be, had a vehicle. The person (or persons) watched her wait for the bus and then followed the bus until she stepped off in a less busy location.

The police had their wives take the bus after the abduction and looked for anyone suspicious.

Any persons involved would not be on that bus. The person had to have had their own transport. It would explain why she wasn't found in a small area.

BCID

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 11:26:54 AM »
So I went to the archives to get more details on this case. I wanted to know what was said at the time of her disappearance. Unfortunately, the newspaper for that area was on strike until near June of 1974.

I ran out of time before I could look further. Perhaps I will obtain some more info on my next trip.

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 11:34:10 PM »
Carmen Robinson worked at the Ingraham, which had a pub. Lots of people drank there.  This is where I think she came into contact with the persons who abducted her.  The Burnside bus picked up passengers near the Ingraham. Carmen got on and off  there.  Probably so did her abducters when they went to drink at the Ingraham. These people  used the bus and lived along the bus line.  They probably rode the bus to where she got off after work and figured out her route.  Maybe they waited one night for the bus to drop her and abducted her into the car. They may have obtained this car to carry out the abduction, as they had to have followed her on the bus to know her route. It would probably require two or more people to do that, or someone she trusted who lured her into the car.  If she was arguing with one of these people a couple of days before, she recognized him from the Ingraham, and wouldn't have gone anywhere with him willingly.  After they did this they would try to make sure no one put the clues of their bus riding habits together and figured out who they were. Other riders would have seen them on the bus, and the drivers maybe remember where they let them off.  Probably as the investigation published a picture of the suspect, it was close enough in appearence to make them leave the area.

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 12:39:02 AM »
Thanks for posting oldentimeragain! That's an interesting scenario. People rode buses to go drinking? In 1973? So you think this was a planned abduction by more than one guy? Was the Ingraham a bar where hard drinking, hard living men and women gravitated to? Would Carmen have contact with the drinkers if she was a dish washer? Maybe it was someone she worked alongside with? someone she rebuffed and he didn't take to kindly to it. It does happen. Did the Police interview her co-workers?

Carmen Robinson worked at the Ingraham, which had a pub. Lots of people drank there.  This is where I think she came into contact with the persons who abducted her.  The Burnside bus picked up passengers near the Ingraham. Carmen got on and off  there.  Probably so did her abducters when they went to drink at the Ingraham. These people  used the bus and lived along the bus line.  They probably rode the bus to where she got off after work and figured out her route.  Maybe they waited one night for the bus to drop her and abducted her into the car. They may have obtained this car to carry out the abduction, as they had to have followed her on the bus to know her route. It would probably require two or more people to do that, or someone she trusted who lured her into the car.  If she was arguing with one of these people a couple of days before, she recognized him from the Ingraham, and wouldn't have gone anywhere with him willingly.  After they did this they would try to make sure no one put the clues of their bus riding habits together and figured out who they were. Other riders would have seen them on the bus, and the drivers maybe remember where they let them off.  Probably as the investigation published a picture of the suspect, it was close enough in appearence to make them leave the area.

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 11:13:12 AM »
The RCMP flew Olson from his cell at Kingston Penitentiary in Ontario to Victoria on Nov. 30, 1982. He led police to a rocky spot at Fort Rodd Hill, near Royal Roads University, said Brown. Police used sonar machines to examine the ground but couldn't find any evidence of bodies.

"It became apparent Olson was using any unsolved case to either gain access to the media or as a trip," said Brown. Police shipped him back to his prison cell.

Although both Brown and Milne still think about the Robinson case, they don't appear optimistic it can be solved without a major tip from the public.

"I'd be surprised, unless it turns out to be somebody on their deathbed that decides to make a confession," said Milne.

"I don't know I'd say it would never be solved," said Brown.

"There's somebody out there who knows something who hasn't come forward yet."

West Shore RCMP Insp. Jim Faulkner said the case remains "substantial" and is investigated "from time to time" but police could still use public tips.

Rob Shaw can be reached at 250-380-5350 or rfshaw@tc.canwest.com


© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 11:33:35 PM »
The point about the bus is that if you don't have transportation, you take a bus.  It wasn't about drinking and driving. I assume lots of various people drank at the Ingraham.  When Carmen Robinson was working there, she would be out for breaks and lunch etc, and could be seen by other people in the establishment. I think the bus is crucial.  These people rode the bus, saw her on the bus, followed her on the bus, and abducted her after she got off the bus. I say it took two people, one to restrain her and one to drive the car. In those days the streets were not too well lit, and areas out of town were a lot more remote and not as well populated.  They could have driven her anywhere. Also the drawing released by police had to be close to the appearance of one of them, it panicked them into leaving, as no more progress was made in finding them.

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 11:54:09 PM »
Another idea may be the situation of Carmen Robinson arguing with a man at the Holland Avenue bus stop.  Here is likely proof that he followed her on the bus, and got out when she did. Perhaps as suggested, he made an advance to her, and she refused.  Probably recognising him from the Ingraham.  After this rebuff, he started to plan to get her alone, and with help from another like minded person, abducted her. The other person could have been a brother, cousin, a friend, a roommate.  But I say they lived close to the bus line to use it as transportation. These people may have spent at lot of time at the Ingraham, meaning they may not have held down jobs, or jobs with unconventional hours. Without doubt these people were seen at the Ingraham, on the buses, in the area where they lived. Just no one was able to pull all the threads together at the time to lead the police to them. This type of person would have criminal records and their mug shots are probably on file with the police forces, just no one to identify them, yet.

Sleuth

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 01:19:13 AM »
That sounds quite plausible. I wonder where they buried her? Any thoughts on the where?  With the sticker on the bumper, I'm wondering if a young man borrowed his dad's car? What was the drinking age then.....21? Do you know what time she left work or got off the bus?
Do you have the pic of the suspect to post?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 01:36:30 AM by Sleuth »

Concerned

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 05:01:39 AM »
Wonder what the bus driver knows. Thinks. Remembers. They tend to know people and patterns and the types of things that seem odd.

lostlinganer

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 11:10:50 AM »
oldtimer; do you know if there's a copy of the sketch of that suspect online anywhere?.... wonder if it was ever released to the media! ???

oldentimeragain

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Re: ROBINSON, Carmen - missing (1973-12-08)
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2010, 11:37:22 PM »
The drawing of the suspect who was seen arguing a few days before the disappearance was in the Times Colonist.  It was also released at the time.  The only one(s) who know if she is "buried" are the people who abducted Carmen. As I said before they may have taken her just about anywhere. The police would have spoken to the bus driver that night.  Perhaps there was a different driver the night of the argument. Drinking age was 19 at that time.  I don't see it as a young man borrowing his Dad's car. The parents would have known the supects car as fitting the description of their own, and something would have come of that. The registration of cars was most likely all on paper then, and it would take a through search to find cars that were the same make, model and colour. The bus drivers and riders are the best chance of information.  Does anyone know if the article in the newspaper brought in new information?