Author Topic: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 - Age 16 - Missing - Goderich  (Read 41417 times)

DigDig

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 03:37:07 PM »
Syiena,
 All the things you mentioned  re Mistie sightings are accurate. Let me just add that the person who saw her in the Bargain Store knew her. In other words this was a confirmed sighting.  Most other sightings were unconfirmed ie she was seen by people who had seen the poster.
I agree with your other posting: Most other sightings were credible.
Your last posting (My theory?) I agree again. This is the most likely scenario. But there is always that nagging little doubt, isn't there?

Regarding unconfirmed sightings: This is about as solid as an eyewitness gets... I am writing from memory here: The sighting in Toronto where two police officers saw a girl  begging on the sidewalk; the cops were form out of town and on their way back to..Kingston? ...anyway they saw the girl and thought nothing of it until they got back to their police station. There, they saw Mistie's poster and bingo! both cops remembered the girl  in TO. She fit Mistie's description to a "T".

Dundas and Glebe Sts in London used to be the drug trade hangout, also prostitution.

You wrote: Where was she from May 31 (when she went missing), to June 3 (when she spotted by a fellow band member).
- Could be she was with the young guy who lived near the bank on the square in Goderich. She did spend time with him the day she vanished, until?? I forget his name. He was checked and cleared.

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 03:43:46 PM »
I have to leave work to go home in a minute, but I wanted to quickly add something while I had it fresh in my head.

"She also had started a relationship with **** an adult male. He claims he last saw her the day he cashed his welfare cheque and paid his rent. He reported that this occurred on May 30, but bank records indicate that he made these transactions on the day Mistie disappeared. A woman who worked in the shop below **** apartment said she saw Mistie there on May 31 or June 1. At least one other person would later corroborate a May 31 sighting at this location."

The fact that he lied about when he deposited his welfare cheque, should have set off some alarms, no?

He could have given her the money so she could use it if she ran away.

He might have had something to do with her disappearance.

I have to leave work now, but Dig Dig: I will respond to the rest of the posting when I get home (about 630pm).

**edited to remove name



« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:37:26 AM by debbiec »

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 07:38:01 AM »
That's the problem I'm having with ****. If you have nothing to hide, why lie about when he cashed the welfare cheque, and why be afraid to tell the investigators that he was INDEED with Mistie.

It just doesn't add up.  There has been lots of reports about how the Police made alot of mistakes during this investigation.  Meaning, they were too busy focusing on the Steve Murray, and not giving alot of energy to investigate the other tips and leads.   These are not my words, I have gotten this information about the Police throughout different articles. 

I just feel **** knows more then he's letting on.

I'm not saying he had something to do with her disappearance, but what if he knew of Mistie's plans to run away? 

Dig Dig: when Mr. Cook was being questioned by Mr. Greenspan, was this during the Steve Murray's trial?  I'm trying to refresh my memory, was Mr. Greenspan Steve's defense lawyer?





« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:44:01 AM by debbiec »

Shwa

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 07:50:52 AM »
Something is missing for me here...(as a Dad to 5 teens at one time or another...)

1.  She is excited about meeting with her real mom, plans a trip to see her and possibly live with her.  She disappears after she has packed her suitcase, her photos and leaves behind $200.00.  That simply makes no sense whatsoever.  There is not one teen in the world that I know of that would leave behind $200 cash.  In 1995 that was a lot of money for a teenager and it would be highly unlikely that she would have left that money not intending to come back for it.

For her not to come back for the money leads me to believe one of two things: 1.  She couldn't come back to get it; or she was afraid to come back and get it.  If she was into heavy drugs that money would have been worth alot more.  Like the Charley Project page says, it would be make no sense for her to leave her things behind, even as a troubled teen.  The suitcase and photos maybe, but not the cash.

2.  She was last seen leaving school.  Not her boyfriends apartment.  Not people that "knew" her, but leaving school.  And this was after she saw the school nurse for an "undislosed reason."  She was last seen wearing her school day outfit.

Why, if the other sightings were confirmed, would they leave it as she was last seen leaving school?  And how much after-thought was present when people were questioned about their sightings.  Like the boyfriend, scatter-brained teenagers make mistakes with dates all the time.  May 31st, 1995 was a Wednesday.  She was spotted the next day by a friend.  Well, if some time had passed before the friend was questioned, the friend could be completely mistaken about the date, but not the day.  "I last saw her on a Thursday..." that sort of thing.

However, perhaps she had no intention of leaving the cash, was indeed spotted by her friends in and around the Clinton area and was intending (or already had) been at home.

3.  So investigators figured that she was taken out into the lake and thrown over by her step-father, but he was acquitted.  But why was he suspected in the first place? 

*** Interesting that her fathers name was "Steven Murray" and they lived in the Clinton/Goderich area.  If you Google "Steven Murray" + Goderich, you get the first two names of Steven Truscott and the place where his alleged 'ride into history' happened almost 40 years earlier.   I do know that Truscott was living under an assumed name at one time, but I find that coincidence to be very weird.***

« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:46:24 AM by debbiec »

Shwa

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 07:55:08 AM »
Syiena, **** may have been telling the truth as far has he could recall.  Meaning that there was some interference with his memory such as drugs, alcohol or mental illness.

Another interesting link: http://www.equaljustice.ca/cgi-bin/forum.cgi/noframes/read/9243
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:47:09 AM by debbiec »

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2008, 08:03:33 AM »
Hey Shwa,

I could be wrong, but **** was not a teenager, he was an older adult male (according to the reports). 

"He claims he last saw her the day he cashed his welfare cheque and paid his rent. He reported that this occurred on May 30, but bank records indicate that he made these transactions on the day Mistie disappeared."

Fair enough, he could have been telling the truth to the best of his knowledge, but what I'm trying to wrap my head around, is that Mr. Murray was the one the Police were after, why?   when we had a situation where Mistie was involved with an older man, who gave a story with lots of holes in it, but yet, Mr. Murray was the one to go after?
 


« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:47:49 AM by debbiec »

Shwa

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2008, 08:08:34 AM »
Exactly.  Especially since, from reading subsequent reports, Mistie was planning on moving away.  Not running away.  Moving away.  I think her parents sensed this and likely figured it out.

So there are two things that, if I were a cop, would make me suspicious of Steven Murray: 1) the visit to the school nurse, which I haven't heard a reason for; and 2) leaving 200$ cash on a dresser.  She was either unable to get the money or was prevented for some reason.

lostlinganer

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2008, 10:31:35 AM »
hi Sy; it's nice to meet you here;  aren't you the good sleuth!  ...and you seem young.  ...as though you can relate to Mistie. 
I have one opinion so far, (if you can call it that) - the only thing that gives me the creeps more than these beautiful young teens being ending up in foster care where there's a man involved in the care, or adoptive custody growing up with a stranger for a father, is when any of them vanish into thin air because they were going to get out of there (especially a case of the girl possibly reuniting with her birth mother - imagine all the things she could end up  confiding to her own real mother, in the event the reunion was a success.)...just my thoughts.
I've edited this because I was thinking of Mistie being in a group home situation... had her mixed up with another topic thread... but still, same scenario can happen when the girl gets into her teen years.  She often wants to get "out of there". 
You have to hand it to the adoptive parents who bring a child into their life, and protect them forever; on the other hand, it is some awful when so many end up like Mistie.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 10:43:01 AM by lostlinganer »

debbiec

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2008, 10:39:09 AM »
I'd be interested in knowing what she visited the school nurse for. It would make me wonder if that would have anything to do with her disappearance.

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2008, 11:03:53 AM »
Hi everyone,

Hi Lost,

Nice to meet you too!  I did grow up in a town that had close relations with the surrounding towns including Seaforth and Goderich.  For instance, the Steven Truscott case and the Mistie Murray case, it affected everyone in the surrounding areas.  Often friends had friendships with other students from the surrounding towns (high schools) which was the case for myself.  It hit the towns hard when Mistie disappeared. 

That's what makes this case so difficult.   Not just one reason, but there are many reasons to why Mistie disappeared.

Was there problems at her adoptive home that she had to get away from?

Was she not okay with living at her adoptive home, and wanted to be on her own?  go be with her mother?  If so, why did she leave a full suitcase, and money on her dresser.  Like what Shwa said, was she prevented from doing this? or thought she wouldn't be able to get away fast enough if she came back for the cash?

Was her intentions to run away, but unfortunately ran into major probs?

I agree too, what was the reason she saw the school's nurse.  I am very interested in knowing that.  But can and will we ever find out?

Thanks for the links, I'm going to check them out tonight!




DigDig

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2008, 11:48:55 AM »
Shwa,
Good points. Here is how it was explained to me... Mistie, being born to an alcoholic Mom who drank through the pregnency, likely had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. It has also been said that she suffered from an attachment disorder due to abnormal upbringing until she was 5 and adopted into a 2-parent home.
According to what I have learned, FAS can be very detrimental to the person's  development  and combined with the attachment disorder, Mistie turned out to be the kind of girl who, was very impulsive and also very confused about father bonding and, through her short life displayed itself in abnormal actions like she would have no problem going over and setting herself on a strange man's lap, trying to make contact. A big age difference did not deter her.

Her impulsiveness could very well be to blame for  her leaving the $200 behind as well as abandoning her  plans about going to meet her birth family. Also, it can be blamed for her very rash decision to leave so suddenly. Who knows, a drug abusing character like **** could easily have slipped her something to make her confused.

The impulsiveness and attachment complex both, can likely be blamed on her hooking up with older men without regard for the consequences, ie, her meeting with **** who was around 23 if my memory serves me (she was 16), and also no regard for that  person's standing in society.

3. The reason Steven Murray was suspected was due to his lousy memory on some very unimportant  details that had happened days before and  he was not likely to remember. It had to do with a pair of shoes and another thing..I seem to remember it was to do with when he took the boat in for a cleaning.

Shwa, like I mentioned before, Steven Murray and family has been put through the grinder over this. He has been as thoroughly investigated. He has been charged, tried and finally  acquitted  with oodles of   evidence to spare. The police were forbidden to mention his name ever again due to the harassment  they continually exerted upon the family.
What is good enough for the courts should also be good enough for us. I guess what I am trying to say is that we should not be revisiting this part of the  story, because it is really done. I see it as a time-waster as far as our real objective goes: To find out what happened to Mistie.

As to the confirmed sighting in the bargain store: The  witness did recall  properly the day and time. She did not possibly  refer to a wrong date.  It was the police saying that, because they had their sights on Steven at that time.

Yes it is interesting the  similarities between the Steven Murray and Steven Truscott cases, well sort of:
Steven Murray and Steven Murray Truscott
They were both charged in Huron County and both were tried in Goderich
Steven Truscott's defence lawyer was Frank Donnelly
Steven Murrays judge was James Donnelly, Frank's son

You also mentioned Steven Truscott alleged ride. That ride (bike ride with Lynne) is not alleged any more. It has been proven to the courts' and everybody's satisfaction that Truscott is innocent and that the ride really took place.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:52:02 AM by debbiec »

DigDig

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2008, 12:02:08 PM »

I just feel **** knows more then he's letting on.

I'm not saying he had something to do with her disappearance, but what if he knew of Mistie's plans to run away? 

Dig Dig: when **** was being questioned by Mr. Greenspan, was this during the Steve Murray's trial?  I'm trying to refresh my memory, was Mr. Greenspan Steve's defense lawyer?


Hi Syiena,

1. Yes, it is natural to get that feeling. even though I said he had been questioned to everyone's satisfaction it would sure be nice to hear from him. I bet he didn't volunteer anything that he wasn't asked like: Did he administer a date rape drug to Mistie?
If questioned: How a was Mistie's condition when she left? Ans: Normal...
And, sadly, this is exactly the same answers or non-answers anyone would get today. 
2. Anything is possible because we don't know if I were to investigate this today I would lean towards blaming her disappearance on her impulsive nature, like I wrote to Shwa. It could be that **** knew something but this is where it stops with ****. He wouldn't reveal anything.

And yes, Brian Greenspan was Murray's defense lawyer.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:54:11 AM by debbiec »

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2008, 12:03:24 PM »
Hey Dig Dig,

I apologize for not responding to the messages sooner, but I have now.

Sy

Syiena

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2008, 01:50:57 PM »
I'm currently writing a response to the latest postings, but I wanted to post a couple things right now.

Regarding Steve Murray - Dig Dig is right.  He's been investigated, and acquitted.  We should leave this part alone.  Unless significant evidence is found that says otherwise, we should leave this part alone.  I know it's tough, because we don't know what happened, people may be suspicious of Steve, but what Dig Dig said - What is good enough for the courts should also be good enough for us.  I have to agree.

same goes for Steven Truscott - On August 28, 2007, after review of nearly 250 fresh pieces of evidence, the court declared that Truscott's conviction had been a miscarriage of justice.


Shwa

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Re: Mistie Murray - May 31, 1995 ? Age 16 ? Missing ? Goderich
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2008, 03:33:27 PM »
Hey Dig Dig,

I appreciate your sympathy towards Steven Murray and agree to a degree, that the courts and police have dealt with it - thus far.  However...

In another 10 years if this case was re-opened as a cold case then ALL the evidence and suspects would be re-examined.  I do not wish to bring anymore grief to Steven Murray, but one way or another he has some part to play - even if victim.  If I were a cop, I too would come to the same suspicions about the circumstances.  So, while I agree that he ought to be left alone, searching for new evidence might touch him even if in a very tertiary way.

As for FAS & developmental disorders and the $200.00.  Of course, it would be rational to conclude that a normal teen would not walk away from that kind of cash.  Fair enough.  But to what degree Mistie's alleged disorders come into play in her disappearance is anyone's guess especially IF the sightings of her afterward are to be believe where she appeared to be rational enough.

Very complex circumstances for sure, but in that complexity something just doesn't seem right and it is frustrating to be unable to articulate what it is.  The intuitive response to these circumstances, to me, is 'accident.'

On the other note, there should be a lengthy discussion on the Truscott case on this site that would frame my meaning of 'alleged.'   8)