Author Topic: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West  (Read 180224 times)

jobo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3634
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #345 on: November 14, 2010, 07:26:09 AM »
From what I understand, when someone is stabbed numerous times, isn't it more of a personal thing?   A rage killing? 
If Kathleen was stabbed numerous times, then the perp would have had blood on him.   Wonder if he had a room/apt to himself?   He could go back home and clean up and never be seen.

amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #346 on: November 14, 2010, 06:44:36 PM »
Perdy...what leads you to believe Kathleen left her friends home on Cresswell Dr, the last place she was seen alive at the south end of Trenton and close to South bridge; walked well out of her way..at least 30 minutes and took the North bridge back to the base?    If find this somewhat curious even though it was a warm summer evening. 
Way, way back in the posts on this thread a poster commented a local downtown ( near the south bridge) jewellery store's security surveillance picked Kathleen up walking past at 12:30am on that final night. 
I'm pretty certain both Pomeroy and Bridgman were both cleared as suspects...the OPP were on Kathleen's murder case at that time.
Ever notice when you ask Google Maps the shortest driving route from point A to point B is isn't accurate??  It's so maddening when one is aware of the shortest route.  Good grief, Google gets confused with even the suggestion of Trenton as it asks if you mean Quinte West..lol
 

Concerned

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3550
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #347 on: November 14, 2010, 07:31:24 PM »
Please forgive me as I want to learn more about this case (sometimes it is hard to jump in when so many people know it well) so be gentle on reproach. This is a long thread, and I have not been through it fully. But as I looked into new news reports, I've discovered something that caught my attention. It will take two posts to explain, but it has interesting information in both posts. 

Quote
Here is the old information filled with facts (that have been tossed around lately) as reported by CTV News in the video "Catherine Lathem on a cold case that's stumped police - "Here now: Murder on the Base" Notes from the video:

Kathleen's Residence: Was originally from Glace Bay, NS, but went to live with relatives in Trenton, ON.

Kathleen's Employment: At Stream International, a call centre, 540 Dundas St. W. (sign in video said Stream Global Services, but audio called it Stream International)

Method of Kathleen's Murder: Multiple stab wounds with evidence of sexual assault.

Kathleen was Last Seen:  Leaving friends the evening of Wednesday, June 13, 2001 in downtown Trenton (sign in video read Cresswell Dr.)

Kathleen's Body Found:  http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=894551 )

Controversy:

Lead Investigator OPP: Detective Scott LeBlanc, formerly from Quinte West police department, but at time of video was now at OPP on the case as Lead Investigator. Note, on June 18, 2001 the video showed press conference with former investigator of Quinte West Greg MacLean speaking. 

Suspects:  A military connection was ruled out early on (Does not say by who, when, or why). A similar attack in London, ON, also ruled out early on (Does not say who, when, or why). 
http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090220/OTT_Unsolved_Murders_090220/20090222/?hub=OttawaHome

« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 07:57:20 PM by Concerned »

Concerned

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3550
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #348 on: November 14, 2010, 07:42:03 PM »
Here is the second article I refered to in the previous post. I have been trying to find out whether Robert Brinkman was ever formerly cleared of Kathleen's murder.  I found this fairly recent article and find some info in it curious. Does anyone know if he is officially cleared? There seems to be a lot of similarities. (It is a long article, but thought it best if you read it for yourselves to see if you question some items, as well)

Is it possible that they lost the evidence, compromised the evidence, or negotiated with Brinkman for a reduction from first to second because they didn't have the murder weapon. And, Brinkman took second so he wouldn't be considered in MacVicar?  I have only the above two articles to base this on and this is just a theory IMO.

Quote
Brickman gets life for killing of Sarah Martinplead guilty to second-degree murder in the 2007 slaying of Sarah Martin, of Trenton. The plea saved the Crown and courts from what had been expected to be a lengthy trial.

Byers called the plea a "compromise" before adding that Brickman's decision to plead guilty before trial was a "wise one."

"You are sentenced to imprisonment in the penitentiary for life," Byers said.

Brickman's charge was reduced from first-to second-degree murder for the slaying of 22-year-old Martin.

Brickman has a lengthy record of battling mental illness, a condition that got worse in 2004. Court documents revealed that Brickman was off his medication and going through an episode at the time of Martin's death.

Byers said there were "enough red flags that this man needed help" and the community failed to acknowledge those warning signs before it ended in tragedy. He told Martin's family they won't find closure in a courtroom, but that he hopes they might find it later.

"I'm sorry this happened to you," he said.

Martin's body was found in a wooded area on Mount Pelion in Trenton in July 2007. Brickman was arrested in early 2008 following an eight-month investigation by provincial police. She and Brickman worked together at TeleTech Holdings Inc. in Trenton.

The public gallery inside the courtroom was packed with several family members of both the accused and the deceased. Brickman's brother sat on a bench directly behind Brickman who sat in the prisoner's box. Some family members, including Martin's stepmother, wept openly throughout the proceedings.

Victim impact statements from Martin's father and mother were read in court. During his victim impact statement, Martin's father, Terry Martin, called Brickman "garbage." Terry Martin said his daughter's death has inflicted him with "terrible pain" that as created many "sleepless nights." He added that he hopes "death" finds Brickman in prison.

"You have taken my daughter away, just when she was starting her life," Terry said. "We have a lot of anger toward you."

After all the statements were read, Brickman stood up and made a brief apology to Brickman's family.
"I take full responsibility," he said. Martin's mother, Judy Martin, was not sparing any harsh words as she left the courthouse.

"He deserves more," Judy said.

Judy Martin, who has been living in Hamilton since 2004, said she was visiting Martin's grandfather in Trenton, when Martin vanished. They were supposed to "do mother and daughter things which (Brickman) took away from me," she said.

"I'm still shaking," she added. "There will never be closure because I will never have my daughter again."
Crown prosecutor Jodi Whyte called the murder a " senseless act." She asked Byers to bump up Brickman's probation eligibility to 14 years because he had "a long history of violence against him," that included his constant desire to harm someone.

"I don't know if there is any remorse," she said. "There is some level of planning to what happened here."
Patrick Hurley, Brickman's defence lawyer said that his client was "forthcoming with information" when he could have opted not to be. He also contended that Brickman should be credited for his guilty plea, that saved the family the grief of a trial.

He said there was no forensic evidence that linked Brickman to committing the actual stabbing. He asked Byers to take into account that, if the case went to trial, there is a possibility that the charge could be reduced or even thrown out.

Hurley said that Brickman has a 13-year-old son along with his four siblings and 76-yearold father, living in Trenton. Hurley's plea fell on deaf ears -- Byers decided to agree with the Crown's request.

Court documents revealed that on July 11, 2007, Brickman invited Martin to accompany him on a beach trip. Martin informed her roommate that she was going to the beach with someone from work, before leaving her apartment on July 12.

Instead of heading to the beach as planned, Brickman took Martin to an isolated area in Mount Pelion, Whyte described as "off the beaten path." Brickman used a knife he had in his car to "stab Sarah Martin once in the neck," Whyte added. The knife has never been found.


Family members became suspicious on July 16, after no one heard from Martin for several days. The police were alerted and the hunt for Martin began.

Quinte West OPP interviewed Brickman who claimed he cancelled the trip to the beach before indicating that the last time he saw her was at work on July 12.

Police later found records of several phone calls Martin made to Brickman's phone before she disappeared. Martin also used a computer to communicate with one of her friends on Facebook, July 12. Police traced the IP address, which matched Brickman's computer.

Whyte said Martin's body was found July 17 by five young boys, who were playing in the Mount Pelion area. Whyte said after police spoke to Brickman, he "emptied his bank account" and left the area.

Brickman was not charged until several months later when he was arrested as he was leaving Quinte Detention Centre where he was being held on assault charges not linked to Martin's death.

Officers discovered a notebook with a suicide letter in Brickman's car.

He told officers that he was hearing "voices in his head that he can't turn off," Whyte said.

Whyte said Brickman was seeing a psychiatrist in 2004, to deal with his mental health issues, after he threatened to stab someone. Brickman return to the psychiatrist 18 months later but didn't follow up after that. Whyte said Brickman had been suffering from depression and bouts of anger since 1988.

"It's been a rough three years for them," Whyte said of the Martins outside the court. "I'm glad it has come to an end. It's been particularly very hard on her dad."

"It was a highly circumstantial case," she said. "In the end, its life in prison which is the best you're ever going to get. To have a sure thing and closure for the family is important."

Article ID# 2536180
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2536180


« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 08:01:23 PM by Concerned »

amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #349 on: November 15, 2010, 05:28:48 PM »
Perdy, haven't you mentioned that Beckers store before?  I believe you have repeated this a few times.
A link regarding where Kathleen was last seen?  The one you have asked me for? The one one on Cresswell Dr.?   
It is stated here in various places by those other than myself and that knew the events of that evening.
But most recently by Concerned on post # 376.  The link is provided to all and everyone.

 

Perdy...what leads you to believe Kathleen left her friends home on Cresswell Dr, the last place she was seen alive at the south end of Trenton and close to South bridge; walked well out of her way..at least 30 minutes and took the North bridge back to the base?    If find this somewhat curious even though it was a warm summer evening. 
Way, way back in the posts on this thread a poster commented a local downtown ( near the south bridge) jewellery store's security surveillance picked Kathleen up walking past at 12:30am on that final night. 
I'm pretty certain both Pomeroy and Bridgman were both cleared as suspects...the OPP were on Kathleen's murder case at that time.
Ever notice when you ask Google Maps the shortest driving route from point A to point B is isn't accurate??  It's so maddening when one is aware of the shortest route.  Good grief, Google gets confused with even the suggestion of Trenton as it asks if you mean Quinte West..lol
 

I honestly do not quite understand what you asked or are getting at? But I have asked for a link to explain where she was. I never claimed she was on Creswell. Maybe can you clarify your question?

I will need to read back and check the video information. Many rumors floated around at that time, some really upset my daughters and one I overheard i will not repeat. Because someone says something, that to me does not make it so. So I asked for the link that says where she was that night before she walked home, and now will hunt for the surveillance info. :)
EDIT: This started as a rumor the camera was at Becker's..then maybe one downtown caught her on video, maybe a bank or jewelery store camera, and then it was a camera at the jewelery store and now a jewelery store at a certain time. No reliable information as been released regarding an image on a camera.
I am not sure what you mean in reference to google map? I remember Trenton's layout quite well.

Both Pomeroy and Brinkman were indeed both cleared in Kathleen's murder. Kathleens case remains open. I am not sure why you directed your statement to me? I never claimed otherwise.

This is a long thread now..I need to go back and see what info there is. :)



amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #350 on: November 15, 2010, 05:57:13 PM »
Perdy...it's good to read you have taken the time to read the posts on this thread from the beginning. It certainly is a very long read but then again it has been over nine years since Kathleen was brutally murdered. But it is certainly a step in the right direction to read back through and familiarize yourself.

In your post, # 379...I would quote it but it's far too long and would take up far too much space, in my opinion.

You mention numerous page numbers as reference and have made a number of comments regarding certain information the posters stated. You have provided the odd quote, however not by a specific member. 

I realise you have spent a great deal of effort on your post # 379..am wondering if you find time, would you be able to actually narrow things down as little with the provision of the members?

It would certainly make things much easier in my opinion, if names and post numbers were included in your comments section.   It's all those little tiny details from so many individuals on this site thak may be over looked

Just a suggestion.. 
 

Have faith

  • Member
  • Posts: 1001
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #351 on: November 15, 2010, 08:02:46 PM »
Perdy:  That must have taken you hours to sort through! Thank you for the effort.  One question...how the heck do you type all that, in the little, tiny window? lol


Concerned

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3550
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #352 on: November 16, 2010, 04:29:42 PM »
Quote
Both Pomeroy and Brinkman were indeed both cleared in Kathleen's murder.

Perdy, this point is really important to me. I have tried to find proof that Brinkman was cleared in MacVicar's murder. No news releases, no police confirmation, no announcement. If you should have proof of this, can you please direct me to that so I can read the source direct.

Concerned

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3550
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #353 on: November 16, 2010, 09:52:33 PM »
Thanks for that. No rush. I have felt that it was someone that had propensity, and that this was not the first or the last time. When you see Brinkman's unstable mental health combined with his motive for the crime of just wanting to stab someone; his propensity to find someone convenient; his propensity for rage in his crime; and having dropped off a body in the woods near a road, well it began to fit, IMO. If Brinkman worked in call centers, did he work with Kathleen at the time? Hang around those that knew her? Did he know of her before and suggested that he would pick her up for a date, so that is why she was ok with walking home--fairly far away in the dark?   The unknown was where Brinkman was at the time. And, whether Brinkman had a similar propensity earlier on. IMO his MO had quite a few similarities to create curiosity.

amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #354 on: November 17, 2010, 05:03:01 PM »
amIam - there is no link on Creswell drive. I know the video (as I also mentioned in my post, shows the street sign but no one ever reported this is where Kathleen was that night. This may be but without proof, it is just a pic of a sign and could have been any sign. I do read this thread quite often. I recommend you do the same. I think everyone should. If you did, you would know why I mention the Becker's. You would also know if you read the post that I wrote, that I was not the first to mention Beckers. But for "shits and giggles" here is why I mention this store again. It is on her path home from Creswell as well as from where my daughters say she was. It is a tough place to be at night. I would note here that you never mention Beckers. The only bad place you mention is CFB Trenton. That is just my observation.

With all due respect, I omitted names and most quotes for a reason. I am not out to point fingers or get into a "pissing match with anyone. I posted what is there for anyone to read. I concentrated on only a few points that have been discussed to use as examples..I think people can read for themselves and determin what is fact...if they are let to do this without further smoke and mirrors. Therefore, I will not be going back and quoting and pointing fingers. It would just be an invitation to quarrel over insignificant details.

it is indeed a long thread. But really, it has only been active a year :)
Still a long read

I am curious..you discount the last place Kathleen was known to have been as Cresswell Dr.  and yet on the otherhand you continue to mention that Becker's  store as Kathleen's route towards
Curtis Rd from Cresswell Dr.

You have given a reason ( somewhat) as to why you didn't use quotes from posting members..however, I also asked for post numbers..for the most part so posters will be able to determine the original wording themselves.  As you are aware, it only takes the misplacement of one single word to change the entire meaning of a post.




amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #355 on: November 18, 2010, 01:06:42 PM »
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Creswell+Dr.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&daddr=44.0967479,-77.5795343+to:44.1017721,-77.5752169+to:Curtis+Rd.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&hl=en&geocode=FbXXoAIdmj1g-ylrvNvk4RXWiTEt6ICZpAK4MQ%3BFevcoAId8jpg-ylDyrPw4RXWiTGDll8ZZbGKqA%3BFYzwoAId0Etg-ylLfg7MCBbWiTHKVqMEaeIsXg%3BFcIZoQIdfJhg-ylpJU-Z9D3WiTFL0ovFUcDvxA&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1,2&dirflg=w&sll=44.096154,-77.579355&sspn=0.018184,0.035791&ie=UTF8&ll=44.100838,-77.575579&spn=0.018183,0.035791&z=14

Not certain how this map will appear in the post or even it will appear at all!
Creswell Dr. begins at the edge of Hannah Park..east of point "A".  Seems though that without the house number Google seems unaware of where the street begins.  I didn't want to enter the house number for the privacy of the owners, whom ever thay may be.
There is a shorter walking route from point "A" to point "B"..this can be changed by dragging your cursor.  But this is the route given by Google and I have left it at that.  Reason being, it has been reported by a local poster that Kathleen was caught on a jewellery store's video.  If this is actual fact, that jewellery store would have been one of three and all located on Dundas St., in the downtown core and all quite close together.

amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #356 on: November 18, 2010, 07:23:25 PM »
I really like that map :) it allows people to check out various routes :) Nice map :)

Thanks! However, it appears Google isn't all that it's cracked up to be..my gawd I had the worst time with that!  But it does show some sort of route that Kathleen could have taken after leaving the gathering on Creswell Dr..if one was walking.  However, I shouldn't be so hard on Google..it's the confusing name change of the city of Trenton..as in the heading of Kathleen's thread
"Quinte West"  RW put us on the real map public wise..otherwise who would have been able to figure it out?  I always wondered why the name of CFB Trenton was never changed to CFB Quinte West?  It has always seemed to me to be so confusing if one is not from the area..as if they may be in two separate locations.

amIam

  • Guest
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #357 on: November 18, 2010, 08:09:22 PM »
I have read you say you lived in Trenton as of about 7 years ago...moved from TO.

Lets make this VERY clear to you...I lived in Trenton for 16 years.  My Dr. was the coroner that was called to the scene. At that time he was the chief coroner.

I am sorry yet again to remind you to read more closely before you post or at the very least if you comment on something you ( think) I posted and in future please use the quote feature.
You are half correct..I moved here from Toronto..not 7 years ago as you stated..I have lived here long before Kathleen was murdered.

It's interesting you mentioned your doctor was the coroner and chief coroner at the scene Katheen's murder.  Actually... there has never been more there one coroner in Trenton..so I guess it's easy to have the distinction of being called " chief"
Currently, Dr. Donald Cooke, M.D. subs as well here as the coroner.  He is very, very  old.  Been the coroner here for years...you didn't mention the name in your post..are we speaking of the same?? 

Chris

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7215
  • The Webmaster
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #358 on: November 20, 2010, 03:28:27 AM »
Good idea. Let's enjoy a 1 week cooling off period on this thread. It is not possible everyone is going to agree on everything, and it is not possible that we are always going to be right. But it is possible to enjoy and respect other points of view.

capeheart

  • Member
  • Posts: 3534
    • View Profile
Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #359 on: November 25, 2010, 02:55:36 PM »
I totally agree with your comment, Chris. I did not even comment on any of these posts, because it just sounded like bullying on the schoolgrounds. We should all respect opinions of others. ??? ???