Author Topic: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West  (Read 180242 times)

capeheart

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #255 on: May 14, 2010, 09:18:03 PM »
It always make you think, well maybe because this female was from another part of the country that we don't have to work to hard to solve the crime. Well, we are here and we want Kathleen's murder solved. If her family was in Ontario, maybe there would be more action on Kathleen's murder. So much time gone by and nothing, it is very upsetting for us down east. Please go back and interview the people that were initially interviewed when Kathleen was murdered. Let us get justice for Kathleen. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #256 on: May 15, 2010, 06:31:05 AM »
It always make you think, well maybe because this female was from another part of the country that we don't have to work to hard to solve the crime. Well, we are here and we want Kathleen's murder solved. If her family was in Ontario, maybe there would be more action on Kathleen's murder. So much time gone by and nothing, it is very upsetting for us down east. Please go back and interview the people that were initially interviewed when Kathleen was murdered. Let us get justice for Kathleen. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Cape, I think it does make a difference when the family actually lives closer to the area of a crime.  One can be more of an in your face person.  I have mentioned before that the former Trenton Police force really botched the initial investigation. Someone in their wisdom brought in the OPP Forensics team..but that was 2 wks or more after Kathleen's murder.  I believe they did round up the usual suspects but to no avail.

There have been a few military posters here who have said the military were very cooperative with the investigation.  I believed that until I read Colleen MacVicars statement to the contrary. How dreadful the military isn't cooperating with the investigation. Kathleen was an extended family member of one of thier own 'military family' why would they not cooperate??

"MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative."
http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/Justice/2010-02-10/article-837066/Police-looking-into-MacVicar-murder-for-links-to-arrested-base-commander/1


jobo

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #257 on: May 15, 2010, 07:57:08 AM »
So, the Military has not co-operated in Kathleen's murder investigation.  That is not good enough.  I would hope that because Williams has been charged, the Military would realize it is quite possible they have (had) another killer of innocent women in their midst, and they are actively working on Kathleen's case again.  Let's hope, her family needs answers.

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #258 on: May 15, 2010, 03:31:53 PM »
So, the Military has not co-operated in Kathleen's murder investigation.  That is not good enough.  I would hope that because Williams has been charged, the Military would realize it is quite possible they have (had) another killer of innocent women in their midst, and they are actively working on Kathleen's case again.  Let's hope, her family needs answers.

I am as surprised as you the military has not cooperated with the MacVicar family.  We were told in the media they were and military posters here have said the same.
I was shocked ( to say the least) when I read Kathleen's mother's statement. This poor mother has been through so much for the past 9 years.

I'm wondering if by chance, Kathleen MacVicar's came up during that interview the base gave to Maclean's magazine?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/19/%e2%80%98behind-those-eyes%e2%80%99/#more-108675

I would doubt Macleans was even aware a murder had occured 9 yrs previously and on military property, no less.  Her murder didn't get much media coverage at the time...
I can't imagine one of those military guys would pipe-up and say; " Oh yeah, and why we are all wondering how RW managed to pull off his crimes..there was another murder right here an the base 9 yrs ago.  And RW was here..his bio says he wasn't..officially he was posted to Ottawa but he split his time between 2 bases. And he even rented a place right here on the base in June, 2001."
I guess they would be unable to mention that considering the military isn't cooperating with Mrs. MacVicar.

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #259 on: May 23, 2010, 01:46:24 PM »
There is a Facebook page for Kathleen, set up ( I believe by a member here)  There was some interest at first, just the usual join any group condolances....there has been the odd member from as far away as  Baton Rouge, and Aussie..you get my drift?

One would think with the 222-Tips line someone locally would have called in something?  Regardless of how insignificant it may seem.   The 222-TIPS is supposed to be a ID free however many locals don't trust it.

Kathleen MacVicar's mother, Colleen's statement regarding the lack of military cooperation in the murder of her daughter, whose remains were found on military property, really bothers me. Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?) but it's not as if this area is distant from the base, it's just 50 feet away.  Being deemed public means, the the military police can't arrest a civilian if they are found on the property.  Trenton has many greenbelts and parks..why choose this area to dump Kathleen's body?

Middleton Park is a PMQ area, ( private married quarters) on June 15, 2001 when Kathleen's body was discovered. RW was posted here, he rented a place on base as he was splitting his time between Ottawa and Trenton.  The PMQ he rented has changed hands a number of times since 2001.

So has RW's profile, a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.

So given the military lied regarding Williams posting during the time of Kathleen's murder, and their lack of cooperation to date as expressed by her mother, Colleen..what should we do as concerned Canadian citizens?

How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?








   

lostlinganer

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #260 on: May 23, 2010, 03:20:16 PM »
amIam; there are 18 pages of info. in this thread - there are at least 3 threads on RW.  Most of us are trying to follow and contribute insight to many cases on a regular basis so that they are "not forgotten".  It would help if you could elaborate
 by joining or linking the clarifying info on three points - I'm sorry but I'm after forgetting the particulars on these points. ....so in short:

Quote
Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?)
1a.) Exactly when did this area open up to the public? - Before or after Kathleen's body was found there? 
1 b.) Do you have any idea who/what official/s would be responsible for seeing that this area became public as opposed to private military grounds?

Quote
a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.
2.  I seem to remember this article, but can't remember where or when I read it.
Can you put in that link?

Quote
How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?
3.  Good idea!... maybe Kathleen has a close friend or family member (or even anyone here) who could draft up a letter showing this proof of all of the above.  ....create a thread to that effect...then we could all click on that thread and leave our signature....then it could be printed out and sent to the investigating officer in charge of that case with CC. going wherever else necessary -  even to newspapers....like the Globe.

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #261 on: May 24, 2010, 03:23:09 PM »
Lost, good idea but a daunting task. And I know you guys are busy with other cases and this thread is difficult to follow.  So is the information regarding Kathleen's murder. I'm working on it.




amIam; there are 18 pages of info. in this thread - there are at least 3 threads on RW.  Most of us are trying to follow and contribute insight to many cases on a regular basis so that they are "not forgotten".  It would help if you could elaborate
 by joining or linking the clarifying info on three points - I'm sorry but I'm after forgetting the particulars on these points. ....so in short:

Quote
Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?)
1a.) Exactly when did this area open up to the public? - Before or after Kathleen's body was found there? 
1 b.) Do you have any idea who/what official/s would be responsible for seeing that this area became public as opposed to private military grounds?

Quote
a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.
2.  I seem to remember this article, but can't remember where or when I read it.
Can you put in that link?

Quote
How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?
3.  Good idea!... maybe Kathleen has a close friend or family member (or even anyone here) who could draft up a letter showing this proof of all of the above.  ....create a thread to that effect...then we could all click on that thread and leave our signature....then it could be printed out and sent to the investigating officer in charge of that case with CC. going wherever else necessary -  even to newspapers....like the Globe.


amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #262 on: May 25, 2010, 04:32:26 PM »
Lost, as per part of your request I Googled Middleton Pk. Trenton, ON..it's not listed.  I Googled Middleton Pk, CFB Trenton..it's not listed. Geez this place has an actual name and it's unknown to Google??  The best I could come up with is Curtis Rd. This is where Kathleen's uncle, the military guy was staying, she was living with both he and her aunt at the time of her murder.  They call this area the PMQ's ( Private Married Quarters) Kathleen's uncle, Bob has since been posted elsewhere.

If I am correct, Kathleen's remains were discovered according to her mother, 50ft away from one of the PMQ's.

At the time of her murder, Middleton Pk ( that no one seems to own) was open access to the public, although not many people civilians were aware. 


http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Curtis+Rd.,+CFB+Trenton,+Ontario&sll=44.118889,-77.528053&sspn=0.018362,0.035791&g=CFB+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+Ontario&ie=UTF8&hq=Curtis+Rd.,&hnear=Canadian+Forces+Base+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+ON+K8V+5P8&ll=44.111192,-77.556009&spn=0.018364,0.035791&z=14

lostlinganer

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #263 on: May 25, 2010, 04:43:10 PM »
Am..... it's probably a street....like a crescent...or whatever.  I will start digging.

If you look at this ad... you'll see that it is a yard sale in Middleton Park.... that's apparently the area on the base.... I'll keep digging for it.

Curtis Road and RCAF RD. are on it's perimeter I think.
http://belleville.kijiji.ca/c-community-garage-sales-MIDDLETON-PARK-ANNUAL-YARD-SALE-SEE-17-JOHNSON-DRIVE-W0QQAdIdZ207090881

there's a map in the Kijiji ad.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 04:56:03 PM by lostlinganer »

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #264 on: May 25, 2010, 05:13:57 PM »
Lost, I am gonna leave the mapping search to you! perhaps there's something amiss with Google maps from my end as I tried to track Cresswell Dr. Trenton ( where Kathleen had been) to Curtis Rd.  No luck there either.

So there was a yard sale on Curtis Rd., huh?  It's that time, military people have been reposted and are moving.  They are usually gone by the end of June.

art-hu

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #265 on: May 26, 2010, 08:21:28 AM »
I'm fairly new and don't know where to put this. I recall in the newspaper "The Intelligencer" on 23/04/2010 about a soldier found dead at base. Does anyone know anything more about this. This happened shortly after Debra Raschotte was found.

lostlinganer

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #266 on: May 26, 2010, 12:03:57 PM »
am; I did notice one thing about google maps.
If you put in a street or area that is well known by the community, but not listed on Maps, then you get a response it couldn't be found.  However, if you go to a known street in same area, which is on the map, then when you zoom in, you can find others.
I followed the directions of another poster way back.  I googled Highway 2 and zoomed in to the area.  I took the little man, (me) and got down and walked the streets.  I walked Curtis until I found Zellers, then I zoomed back out and went down to Highway 2 and zoomed in again.  I walked highway 2 until I came to the clump of trees near the PMQ.  I hoped I'd see the cross.  I suppose google (being behind time-wise, might not have been in the right time frame.  Also, the cross might be among the trees and I can't walk in because the satellite doesn't follow.
a poster way back gave directions that state she was found in the clump of trees just off Highway 2 next to the PMQ .....that he a others erected a cross there, and he sees it every day he passes.

lostlinganer

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #267 on: May 26, 2010, 12:34:45 PM »
I keep being drawn back to this post from page 3 of this thread.  No matter what else I read, I keep getting drawn back to this post..... as if my gut tells me Kathleen was picked up by someone from the base she felt she was safe with.... that they took her to a place they had access to....then dumped her where she was found.  I think the ball was dropped by authorities not using a police dog right when she was found.  They should have searched every PMQ and building there, looking for traces of Kathleen's blood...or hair etc.  I would also love to be one of the investigators with access to every Credit Card Transaction RW made at that time (there were motels and lodges close by) and every key he was in the possession of..... oh, that's right.... he didn't need a key!

If I were her parents, I would definitely be fighting for all the evidence the "real police" do have.  I would be looking for trace of bindings, blindfold, etc.  This country is in serious need of CSI people and equipment.... and real police.
The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?



I have lived here in Trenton (also known now as Quinte West as of Jan 1, 1998) for over 30 years.  I drive by the spot on the Base (just off Curtis Road) where Kathleen was found and I often think of her and wish that progress was being made in finding her killer.  For those of you who were wondering earlier, Curtis Road is a straight stretch of road that runs east/west through the PMQs (married quarters) area of the Base - it starts where Dixon Drive ends - right on the boundry of the Base - and ends at RCAF road.  It is maybe 2km long.  It is not a dark, lonely stretch of road and is very well travelled with a 2 parks and 2 schools right off it.  The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?  The Quinte West PD and later the OPP have always refused to provide ANY info as to what exactly happened - COD, whether or not she was sexually assaulted, where she was attacked, etc which has lead to a lot of fear over the years as to what exactly happened.  Most of us feel that the OPP have failed big time in this investigation and the killer has gotten away with it.  The local media brings it up every once in a while especially on the anniversary of it happening and all we ever get is that it is still being investigated.  The only thing we know is that she was visiting friends on the other side of town and they were able to catch her image on store security cameras in the downtown presumably walking back to the Base.  Most locals feel she was probably attacked off the Base and then placed where she was found later.  Most locals also feel she was picked up and attacked by someone she knew and trusted and maybe worked with?  I hope this does get solved one day soon to give her and her family and friends some peace.  We try to keep her memory alive here and there is a cross on the spot where she was found and people often leave her flowers.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 12:40:34 PM by lostlinganer »

amIam

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #268 on: May 26, 2010, 03:00:55 PM »
Lost, I appreciate your interest and fact finding.  The poster you have quoted is off by 5 days on the time of Kathleen's murder..it was not June 20, 2001.  Kathleen never made it back from the gathering at Curtis Rd, June 13th.  Her remains were found on base on June 15th.  So much for the poster regarding warm night open windows, someone should have heard something...

But this is the norm for here in Trenton, most locals never seem to get anything straight.  And when they tend to post, it's a one time thing that one tends to view with a whatever kind of attitute..kinda like the facebook posts.

RW had no need for motels, he had a place on base in the very PMQ area that Kathleen was murdered. But that info did not appear on his bio however after being arrested and charged with the murders of MC and JL the media mentioned 3 of his homes were being investigated.  We only know of two, the third is on base, a rented PMQ.


I keep being drawn back to this post from page 3 of this thread.  No matter what else I read, I keep getting drawn back to this post..... as if my gut tells me Kathleen was picked up by someone from the base she felt she was safe with.... that they took her to a place they had access to....then dumped her where she was found.  I think the ball was dropped by authorities not using a police dog right when she was found.  They should have searched every PMQ and building there, looking for traces of Kathleen's blood...or hair etc.  I would also love to be one of the investigators with access to every Credit Card Transaction RW made at that time (there were motels and lodges close by) and every key he was in the possession of..... oh, that's right.... he didn't need a key!

If I were her parents, I would definitely be fighting for all the evidence the "real police" do have.  I would be looking for trace of bindings, blindfold, etc.  This country is in serious need of CSI people and equipment.... and real police.
The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?



I have lived here in Trenton (also known now as Quinte West as of Jan 1, 1998) for over 30 years.  I drive by the spot on the Base (just off Curtis Road) where Kathleen was found and I often think of her and wish that progress was being made in finding her killer.  For those of you who were wondering earlier, Curtis Road is a straight stretch of road that runs east/west through the PMQs (married quarters) area of the Base - it starts where Dixon Drive ends - right on the boundry of the Base - and ends at RCAF road.  It is maybe 2km long.  It is not a dark, lonely stretch of road and is very well travelled with a 2 parks and 2 schools right off it.  The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?  The Quinte West PD and later the OPP have always refused to provide ANY info as to what exactly happened - COD, whether or not she was sexually assaulted, where she was attacked, etc which has lead to a lot of fear over the years as to what exactly happened.  Most of us feel that the OPP have failed big time in this investigation and the killer has gotten away with it.  The local media brings it up every once in a while especially on the anniversary of it happening and all we ever get is that it is still being investigated.  The only thing we know is that she was visiting friends on the other side of town and they were able to catch her image on store security cameras in the downtown presumably walking back to the Base.  Most locals feel she was probably attacked off the Base and then placed where she was found later.  Most locals also feel she was picked up and attacked by someone she knew and trusted and maybe worked with?  I hope this does get solved one day soon to give her and her family and friends some peace.  We try to keep her memory alive here and there is a cross on the spot where she was found and people often leave her flowers.

lostlinganer

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Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
« Reply #269 on: May 26, 2010, 03:41:03 PM »
amIam; I didn't even give the date a second thought!  I'm glad you pointed that out.  But I still agree, people would have heard something, had the incident taken place where Kathleen was found.  I don't think it did.  I wonder what amount of blood was there - etc.?
And you're right, RW wouldn't need the use of a motel, but since Kathleen didn't have her own place, she could have told him that.... (whoever picked her up, if that was the case).  Wherever it happened, he blood trace would still probably be there.  Blood is hard to get rid of, unless the killer javexed the whole area and disposed of his clothes.  If that's the case, that would take a lot of time and effort - indicating the killer would have further access to the spot long enough to clean it thoroughly.

All good points you mention!