Author Topic: Our Justice System  (Read 37959 times)

Chris

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Our Justice System
« on: March 27, 2008, 02:37:14 AM »
I create this new board to host topics relating to our justice system. I agree we have probably the best system in the world, we do have a lot of holes that need to be filed. I'll start to move some topics buried in 'General' to this place so they will more accessable.

Adrian

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 04:06:13 AM »

JUSTICE????? How rich are ya?

There is more than holes to be filled, there are craters. Let's face it, the peds get off lightly, in time to do more damage, killers are getting off lightly too often, and they fine ya $250.00 for lighting a smoke, in a park!!!!

???    ::)     :P      :-\      :'(     >:(      :-[      ::)      :o      ???    :o

Shwa

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2008, 06:38:30 AM »
I disagree that we have the "best" justice system in the world - we have a 'better' system than many nations, but certainly not the best.  I doubt there can be a best justice system because of the complex nature of its components, processes and what crimes it is dealing with at any one time.




Chris

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 12:36:34 AM »
Quote
I disagree that we have the "best" justice system in the world

Well, I cannot think of anyone who has a better one. The USA system has a very good one, but it has a major weakness in that money can buy you freedom. England might. No places in Asia, MIddle East, Africa, South America has anything better.

The laws work, the problem is the participants do not apply properly what already exsists IMO.

Shwa

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 07:09:21 AM »
Some nation's laws and processes are better than ours, but over all I think ours is better than most.  The "best" justice system can only be an ideal.

I like the idea of community justice, but I don't think many Canadians are properly suited or prepared to deal with it, especially when it comes to crimes of a sexual or violent nature.  I think that if more cases were heard in community justice forums it would greatly reduce the financial cost of administering justice.  Which is a HUGE problem isn't it?  Less cost I mean.  Less lawyers and judges and clerks and bailiffs. etc.  and they would never go for it.



Chris

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 07:19:49 PM »
That is essentally a trial what you are talking about. But perhaps you mean giving people more of a say in the trial? Yes, that would be great for sex crimes. The victims need to begin to heal and being a part of the process if they choose would help. Make sure justice is given.

There is no perfect justice system. But I do agree, the judges and lawyers have too much say.

When it comes to cost, most Canadians don't care about that. What they want, is for the systme to be effective.

Shwa

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2008, 04:56:13 AM »
No, it is not a trial at all.  A trial is a confrontational process with advocates for each side of an accusation with a presiding judge to "weigh" the evidence and make a decision of one sort or another.

Community justice forums is a group process with a facilitator who mediates a dispute between two or more parties to come to a corrective action.  In community justice forums, the perpetrator has already admitted their role and must face the victim, the victim's family and friends, and anyone in the community affected by the act.  The perpetrator must listen to those people, answer all of their questions and then make restitution.  The goal for community justice is to right the wrong.

On small scales, CJF works pretty good, but on larger scales or with more contentious or controversial charges, CJF has its limitations that have yet to be addressed.

Chris

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 03:00:34 PM »
And also some victims probably coun't care less about that process. New York had tried this at one point. It probably has some merit.

But when it comes to sex offences, those suckers will say and do anything to avoid prison so I am not sure it would be effective with them.


Shwa

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 07:16:58 AM »
Part of the Community Justice Forums is diversionary - meaning they want to divert people from the court system, jails, prisons, etc.  So if a victim or perpetrator did not cooperate, they would go into the regular justice process with the tag that they were uncooperative with CJF.

One of the big drawbacks of CJF is that with a sympathetic or un-trained facilitator, perpetrators could use deceitful or manipulative means to alter the consequences.  I am sure everyone has seen perps BS, produce crocodile tears or otherwise try to 'beat the rap.'  They don't call them 'con' for nothing. 

Trained facilitators are completely necessary to this prosess because it uses shame as a primary motivator.

debbiec

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 09:47:17 AM »
This process seems too soft to me. We have enough trouble in Canada actually getting anything done about our criminals. As Chris said some could care less about this "PROCESS". These guys will do and say whatever it takes to get out of a prison sentence. Just seems like a waste of time and money to me trying to shame someone in to behaving themselves. In a time when so many are fed up with our system being slack and giving ridiculous sentences I think we need something with a lot more backbone than this!As a concerned citizen I certainly believe that it is time for people to be held accountable for their actions. Along with many others  I am fed up with a system that is way too  interested in making  sure that that the criminal has all his rights met while the victim seems to have less and less rights.I realize that someone who is uncooperative with CJF would  then be put into the regular court system, just another way of wasting time. Just my opinion.

Chris

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 02:11:06 AM »
Trained facilitators are completely necessary to this prosess because it uses shame as a primary motivator.

Yes this process would be especially useful for young people who have a chance at changing there lives much more then seasoned cons. I have always felt that for young folks who get busted doing relatively minor things, it would be better of that person was sentenced to some sort of diversion program where they can listen to and talk with victims of crime.

We can bring out the good in those people before they harden.

Chris

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 02:13:25 AM »
For anything that is a felony or inlcudes violence or sex crimes or weapons offences, I agree with that. But for shop lifting, drug possesion, etc, and when they are young, there is still a chance. I see nothing wrong with a long sentence and getting help at teh same time for anyone else. Rehab does not require soft short prison sentences.

This process seems too soft to me. We have enough trouble in Canada actually getting anything done about our criminals. As Chris said some could care less about this "PROCESS". These guys will do and say whatever it takes to get out of a prison sentence. Just seems like a waste of time and money to me trying to shame someone in to behaving themselves. In a time when so many are fed up with our system being slack and giving ridiculous sentences I think we need something with a lot more backbone than this!As a concerned citizen I certainly believe that it is time for people to be held accountable for their actions. Along with many others  I am fed up with a system that is way too  interested in making  sure that that the criminal has all his rights met while the victim seems to have less and less rights.I realize that someone who is uncooperative with CJF would  then be put into the regular court system, just another way of wasting time. Just my opinion.

Shwa

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2008, 07:56:18 AM »
One of the fundamental problems now is that prisoners can refuse rehabilitation and choose to serve their sentence out and 'pay their debt to society.'  Their refusal of rehabilitation processes could affect when they get out, but good behavior also counts towards early release.  Well, you put a guy in protective custody, remove the source of his criminal activity and he is bound to have "good" behavior.  But good behavior in prison does not guarantee good behaviour when released does it?

CJF was tried on a sexual assault case on a reserve in Manitoba and raised some controversy - mainly because the pulic perception was that the perpetrator was getting off lightly for his crime.  However, I am guessing that is has been used since to varying results.

seeker2

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2008, 08:32:03 PM »
 I still maintain that in order to get so called "Justice." we have to bring back capital Punishment..

seeker2

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Re: Our Justice System
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 08:42:46 PM »
ahemm.. The feds dont want to put any more money into rehabilitation as Harper  (a few years ago announced that feels that it is is a waste of time and fed money  trying to rehabilitate a criminal.... !!
Thereby they " give them least amount of time in Max, the bang!  Down to medium for a short  time.! ( hey he wants to keep it  cheap) then mimimal security.... THEN  THEY ARE BACK (on parole) ON THE STREET WITHIN NO TIME..WE NEED CALIFORNIA CHAIN GANG WORK AS APPARENTLY THESE PSYCHO'S DONT HAVE TO WORK UNLESS" THEY WANT TO"..
 I feel that they should not get fed unless they work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Hey 3-squares a day what more can they ask?  They arent use to working! They are  losers!