Author Topic: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON  (Read 34791 times)

Concerned

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3547
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 06:09:49 AM »
I didn't know we had a thread already. Sorry about that. Is there a way to transfer information to one.

It is a horrible crimes and it feels like it may be a date gone bad. If she is a foreigner, could she have come over to meet someone (did they do that back then)? This would address why nobody reported her missing.  I've thought about the hotel/motel scenario with a local businessman but then why would he have so many ties bought from the area on hand. 

The tea towel linen, ties and the hand towels leads me to believe it was domestic and the guy killed his wife after a meal. She had evidence that she took good care of herself, so maybe they went out, had too much to drink got into a huge fight (perhaps one wanted a divorce) and the hubby killed her. Would account for why no one was reported missing, if they obviously were from around the area and had purchased so many items near. I would be seriously looking at a man who lost his wife suddenly (saying she left me and I have no clue) at or around that time. The disposal of the body perhaps over the bridge indicates a kick knee jerk reaction to get rid of evidence fast.

Was there a middle class woman involved in groups, perhaps children at school, that all of a sudden no one seen for whatever reason someone provided?

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2010, 04:31:46 PM »
Attached is a link to the OPP website with newly released pictures of the ties and linen/towels found with the remains.

To me, the 'Canadian Tie' seems to have the emblem on the inside, where one could not see it when properly tied.  A seam is clear above and below the emblem, and the material is partly overlapping the emblem.  This can't be the front of the tie.  Wonder if there is something unique on the other side.

Seems to me, only someone travelling to/from Ireland/Canada would have trinkets from both countries with them and close at hand.  An importer?  Someone that traveled frequently and brought a lady friend along on that particular trip?  She could be from many places.

I hope someone can find out who she is someday.

http://www.opp.ca/cibui/html/displaycase.php?id=105

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 07:01:31 PM »
Mitochondrial DNA would tell the police where in the world this woman originated from.  If tissue or other samples were not kept, they could exhume her and give it a try.

Lakehead University in Thunder Bay might want to consider doing this one for free - the public would be grateful since CFS does not have the qualifications to perform this type of test.

lostlinganer

  • Member
  • Posts: 3863
  • Silence, in the face of injustice is complicity wi
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2010, 02:16:48 PM »
Miss R; you've got some pretty good "health" knowledge in your head/at your disposal.

Apert Syndrome, I've never heard of before .... not that common for sure!  I will look it up though.

I was thinking too, upper and lower dentures is usually a last resort for people over 40, who never had great health benefits, nor great natural teeth.  But then again, as you say.... poor dental health is a symptom of something else once coupled with the other condition of the feet and/or hands.

You certainly would expect dental records, and health records, would have identified her by now.  It's hard to believe that with all those  characteristics, some good-hearted detective hasn't done that by now.  She deserves to be known.... to be accounted for, and remembered.  I hope that happens here.


Miss R

  • Member
  • Posts: 197
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2010, 08:47:51 PM »
Amy Billig missing since 1974 from Coconut Grove, Florida

She has an abdominal scar from an appendectomy.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/billig_amy.html


***

Corinne June Groenenberg missing since November 1, 1973 


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/groenenberg_corinne.html


Has a surgical scar on her abdomen. 


***

Christine Marie Eastin, 19, missing since January 18, 1971

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/eastin_christine.html

Has scar on her abdomen from an intestinal operation.

***

Kathaleen Elizabeth Folk-Hine, 51, missing since January 15, 1972

http://www.nampn.org/cases/hine_kathaleen.html

Scar on abdomen and lower dentures


***

Ted Bundy victims, or proposed victims.  Their bodies have never been found.  I have only listed those who went missing prior May 1975.

Unable to find any distinguishing characteristics regarding their teeth, toes and an abdomen scar:

Donna Gail Manson, 19
Georgeann Hawkins, 18
Julie Cunningham, 26
Nancy Wilcox, 16
Denise Oliverson,24
Debi Kent, 17
Roberta Cathleen, 20
Rita Lorraine Jolly, 17
Vicki Lynn Hollar, 24
Lynette Culver, 13


Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2010, 09:22:37 AM »
Is it possible these remains are linked to the unidentified female remains found north of Napanee on 30 December 1984?

Both had time and money for stylish clothing, nails and hair etc.  Under the Napanee thread (other Ontario locations) I have posted a thought on human trafficing - brough from another country, possibly willingly at first due to poor prostects where they were from, given a makeover and sent out to entertain men.

Jmo.

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2010, 12:56:37 PM »
Attached is an artilce from the Toronto Star 3 August 2010 regarding underground/unlicensed dental practices in Toronto.

Could this be why LE have been unable to trace the dental work for this unidentified woman?  I reread the OPP unidentified remains post and noticed that another as yet unidentified woman was found one month later in the Niagara River.  Case no. 20050017OPP in the OPP unidentified remains database, also attached.

Both have extensive dental work with the woman in the Niagara River having work specifically identified as European style.
Both had nice clothing, both were of slim to medium build, both in the age range of 25 - 50 or so.
Both found in a river.  No one (family/friends/employers) reported them missing since 1975.

http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/article/843148--college-probes-bogus-dentists

http://www.missing-u.ca/UIs.aspx

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2010, 12:32:01 PM »
Attached is an article from the Toronto Star on 28 Sept 2010 regarding isotope analysis.  The article does not give alot of detail on the actual process, rather how it can and has been used.

In a nutshell, isotope analysis is done on tooth enamel and can determine where you were raised.

I contacted the OPP Resolve Unit to ask if this a routine test conducted on the large number of unidentified remains in their database.  If this test was done on certain remains to help narrow down their identity, it is classified information.  The public can help by identifying the remains for them - the two way street on what they have done is nonexistent.  Just to clarify - the Resolve Unit exists to coordinate info from public to investigators.

I think it would have been a tremendous help if the test was done on this unidentified woman - no one knows where she is from.  There are many other people on this site where the test could have helped narrow down a region where they were from.

Seems to me, if it was done the OPP request would be for info on a missing person originally from a specific region - or there would be no request for help because they were on it.


http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/868109--stonehenge-skeleton-traced-to-mediterranean-area

Chris

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7215
  • The Webmaster
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2010, 02:37:27 PM »
I did not even know about those kind of tests.

Woodland

  • Member
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2010, 06:07:42 PM »
Just noticed this article from the Standard Freeholder in Cornwall.  Exact date is not there, but one month ago would be 28 September 2010 or so.

I did leave a tip with the OPP's Project Resolve with a copy of the Toronto Star article on isotope analysis sometime between 28 September when the isotope article was printed and 1 October when I posted it here.  The response was they knew all about it.  Now I wonder.  No way would the OPP give me $50,000 even if I did help.  Chuckle, chuckle.

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2752622


Fresh leads on '75 murder
News
By MICHAEL PEELING MPEELING@STANDARD-FREEHOLDER.COM
Posted 1 month ago
 

The Ontario Provincial Police say its last plea for information about the murder of a woman found floating in the Nation River more than 35 years ago has helped the investigation.

Back in early May, the provincial government offered a $50,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction in the 1975 murder.


That call for help has paid off, but to what extent is not clear yet.

OPP Sgt. Kristine Rae said tips were generated by the request for public assistance.

"Officers are presently following up on those tips," Rae said. "There's nothing I can discuss at this time. We're still looking for information."

Meanwhile, the investigative team is reviewing the entire file, she said.

"They're hoping to generate new leads using more conventional methods and take advantage of the advances in DNA technology," Rae said.

"It's still a very active file."

On May 3, 1975, a farmer found the woman's body floating in the river near Casselman, Ont., half an hour northwest of Cornwall.

Police could never identify the victim, who has become known as the Nation River Lady.

Forensic experts estimate her age to be between 25 and 50, her ethnic origin Caucasian, her height 5-foot-3 and her weight 100 lbs.

Advertisement

 She had dark brown, shoulder-length hair dyed a reddish blond.

Distinguishing physical features include an appendix scar and extensive dental work.

When she was spotted in the river from Highway 417, the Nation River Lady was naked except for a blue garment bunched around her neck and shoulders. A piece of heavier material seemed to be wrapped around her head.

Blood found on the bridge above indicated the woman may have been thrown into the river.

In his 1983 book Disappearances: true accounts of Canadians who have vanished, author Derrick Murdoch, who called the woman the Casselman Floater, described the grisly scene.

"The wrists were laced together in front with a man's necktie, and two other neckties had been used to secure the ankles," Murdoch wrote.

"The head wrapping consisted of two fringed green cloths, each 70 inches long and 48 inches in width. When these had been removed, they were found to have been keeping a bloodstained hand towel in place over the lower part of the face."

Murdoch goes on to write about a decorative linen kitchen towel which encircled the neck and was knotted at the back to form a ligature.

The towel was decorated with lettering later determined to be Irish Gaelic and forming the words of a traditional Irish toast.

The two ties used to bind the ankles were nondescript but the third tie which bound the wrists was unusual.

"It had three Canadian emblems on it," said OPP Det. Insp. Phil George, who has since retired, in 2005. "It's not what you would call a common tie, and it's hard to imagine someone doesn't remember it, or didn't remember it at the time."

A 30-plus-year veteran of the OPP, George was the deputy director of the area Criminal Investigation Branch (CIB) and is now on a mission in Afghanistan.

"When I came into this (CIB) position, it became my responsibility to look over all the files which are still open," he said. "I remembered this one from years ago. It was something everyone talked about all the time -- the Nation River woman."

The blue material investigators found bunched around the woman's neck turned out to be a blue body suit.

Anyone with information about this case is asked to contact police at 1-888- 310-1122 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800- 222-TIPS (8477).


amIam

  • Guest
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2010, 10:29:37 AM »
Just noticed this article from the Standard Freeholder in Cornwall.  Exact date is not there, but one month ago would be 28 September 2010 or so.

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2752622


Fresh leads on '75 murder
News
By MICHAEL PEELING MPEELING@STANDARD-FREEHOLDER.COM
Posted 1 month ago
 

The Ontario Provincial Police say its last plea for information about the murder of a woman found floating in the Nation River more than 35 years ago has helped the investigation.

Back in early May, the provincial government offered a $50,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction in the 1975 murder.


That call for help has paid off, but to what extent is not clear yet.

OPP Sgt. Kristine Rae said tips were generated by the request for public assistance.

"Officers are presently following up on those tips," Rae said. "There's nothing I can discuss at this time. We're still looking for information."

Meanwhile, the investigative team is reviewing the entire file, she said.

"They're hoping to generate new leads using more conventional methods and take advantage of the advances in DNA technology," Rae said.

"It's still a very active file."

On May 3, 1975, a farmer found the woman's body floating in the river near Casselman, Ont., half an hour northwest of Cornwall.

Police could never identify the victim, who has become known as the Nation River Lady.

Forensic experts estimate her age to be between 25 and 50, her ethnic origin Caucasian, her height 5-foot-3 and her weight 100 lbs.

 She had dark brown, shoulder-length hair dyed a reddish blond.

Distinguishing physical features include an appendix scar and extensive dental work.

When she was spotted in the river from Highway 417, the Nation River Lady was naked except for a blue garment bunched around her neck and shoulders. A piece of heavier material seemed to be wrapped around her head.

Blood found on the bridge above indicated the woman may have been thrown into the river.

In his 1983 book Disappearances: true accounts of Canadians who have vanished, author Derrick Murdoch, who called the woman the Casselman Floater, described the grisly scene.

"The wrists were laced together in front with a man's necktie, and two other neckties had been used to secure the ankles," Murdoch wrote.

"The head wrapping consisted of two fringed green cloths, each 70 inches long and 48 inches in width. When these had been removed, they were found to have been keeping a bloodstained hand towel in place over the lower part of the face."

Murdoch goes on to write about a decorative linen kitchen towel which encircled the neck and was knotted at the back to form a ligature.

The towel was decorated with lettering later determined to be Irish Gaelic and forming the words of a traditional Irish toast.

The two ties used to bind the ankles were nondescript but the third tie which bound the wrists was unusual.

"It had three Canadian emblems on it," said OPP Det. Insp. Phil George, who has since retired, in 2005. "It's not what you would call a common tie, and it's hard to imagine someone doesn't remember it, or didn't remember it at the time."

A 30-plus-year veteran of the OPP, George was the deputy director of the area Criminal Investigation Branch (CIB) and is now on a mission in Afghanistan.

"When I came into this (CIB) position, it became my responsibility to look over all the files which are still open," he said. "I remembered this one from years ago. It was something everyone talked about all the time -- the Nation River woman."

The blue material investigators found bunched around the woman's neck turned out to be a blue body suit.

Anyone with information about this case is asked to contact police at 1-888- 310-1122 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800- 222-TIPS (8477). 

It's amazing the information and clues one can obtain from reading books.  Derrick Murdoch's book is excellent, I hope you manage to obtain a copy as I mentioned on the Robert Brown thread as there is a police artist's reconstruction of "The Casselman Floater" on page 160.  Too bad it isn't included in the most recent news article.


SAP

  • Guest
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2010, 09:59:04 PM »
How sad!!
Perhaps the website will bring some discoveries. The persons could be from anywhere across Canada or even USA, or the north.

Years ago I met a man who was Inuit and French  mixture. The families followed the ice floes hunting in the winter. He ended up getting separated from his people when the weather turned warmer, ended up in northern Saskatchewan and then finally northern AB. He tried to find his family but to no avail. He had no records of birth in Canada but he did manage to figure a relatively close birthdate and was able to get pension. Last I heard he still had not found family although Social Services said they were trying to help him.

BCID

  • Guest
Re: The Nation River Lady - Found - May 3, 1975 - Casselman, ON
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2011, 01:14:52 PM »
Am - Yes clues and only clues can be obtained from a crime writers stories.  They are not definitive.

Murdoch is not quoted in this article as having knowledge of the television cable found on her or that a wheel from a curtain rod was embedded under one of her arms.  Doubt LE disclosed much info about the crime scene to Murdoch, making his account limited.

I apologize for not replying to this thread sooner. I get very little opportunity to recheck threads I post to.

Woodland, The TV cable information listed on the Doe Network file was in Murdoch's book. The manufacture location and the distribution areas of the cable, if I remember correctly, were not in the original published work of 1983.

The Doe Network file originated from Murdoch's work. The internet at the time was not like it is now. At the time online newspaper archives were not in abundance. Other than old articles copied and pasted on old Google message board posts I still had to rely on any books, magazines and the newspaper archive at my local library. As a researcher, I used whatever clues I could find (as well as contacting police) to bring mostly forgotten cases to the internet so they could have a second chance. Many of us knew the internet would become a powerful tool in seeking justice but who knew it would become this sucessful (internet Amber Alerts, etc).

On the DN file, the B&W photo at the extreme left is the scanned photo from Murdoch's book AmIam talks of.

And to be quite honest, the Canadian police forces were more open with details in the 1980's then they are now. From my perspective, things are more controlled by law enforcement now more than ever. Only small details are revealed. And the press only publish what press releases police give them if they wish to remain on good terms.