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I have never heard this before re. Arnold: 
From a little known time frame, Barb Stoppel and Terry Arnold travelled with the fair from Winnipeg to Armstrong BC during the late summer of 1980. Arnold drove the car in which Barb travelled along with a couple of others. Barb said that they had stopped at a Lake believed to be along the way somewhere in southern Alberta where they had watered the animals. She liked the place and wanted to go swimming except for the unwanted attention being directed at her by T. Arnold at the time.. I suspect it may have been Chin Lake. Barb went on to say that Arnold had even asked her for the photo she kept of herself in figure skater outfit
.. He was obsessed.. that sure explains Barb Stoppel's murder ... and sure points to a fantasy Arnold was obsessed with.. .. enough to plan the abduction of the blonde figure skater, but I can't help but think Arnold was too obsessed with that particular image, to settle for an unseen substitute, whereas Chandler wasn't so specific.

If it was Chandler, he could have chose that spot also, because he didn't have access to a boat.  The fact that he always seemed to carry concrete blocks and restraints indicated to me that he always used them on his victims.  Another thing I gathered from Chandler's crimes is the fact that he didn't rape all his victims... sometimes he just blew up and killed them for "resisting" ... or maybe because then ended up not appealing to him that much at the last minute for whatever reason.  But the actions of Kelly's killer are right on with Chandlers mo, in my opinion.  I think there is enough reason to, at least, trace Chandler's movements from his escape of the work prison in Florida up to Kelly's murder.  He made trips back and forth to Ohio from Florida a lot.... that came to light when his daughters testified.  Ohio is a stones throw from Ontario... and I can see Chandler going west for some big money for a few weeks, if necessary, to get the means of heading back to Florida.  I still think his escape back in 1977 could have been well arranged, either by those he contacted at Customs (with information on drug deliveries .... which he could have overheard or was told at the prison/work field) or at least by someone else being outside the prison field he was working, waiting to pick him up.  If this was the case, he was already an "untouchable" at borders.  That in itself would make him roam more and further, possibly.
Canadian Serial Killers / Re: Karla Homolka
« Last post by Sap1 on April 25, 2016, 07:27:28 PM »
And the feeding frenzy is on it's way. A Professor from the University claimed this all could trigger Karla's psycopathy even more. She is cornered now and who knows what to expect. She is a serial killer but she has been stable for a number of years. This is really going to cause a bad backlash for the children. Idiot journalists!!
Other Alberta Locations / Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
« Last post by Sap1 on April 25, 2016, 07:21:19 PM »
OMG! What to think? What to say? Where was his head during their brief training period?
The end has come for any more in regard T. Arnold for the murder of Joanne .. I was privy to a confession by T. Arnold for this crime in the past and eventually spoke with a prior investigator and did consent to speaking with a current RCMP investigator. I said the same to them as what is contained in this thread. It came down to the RCMP saying that they had a witness alibi for Arnold for that time period that they considered as uncontestable fact. I could not question that as it is apparently under the witness protection protocol.. 

Along the way I was able to confirm a few more things..  At the time of the crime there were many witnesses to a man supposedly helping Joanne with making a call from the phone booth beside a corner store. The car reported driven by that man was rather unique and only one was registered in that area.  T. Arnold claimed that he had stolen a car that night and returned it later but that it was him at the store in that car.  The investigators claimed that they had found and investigated the car and driver but that he had a valid alibi. That ended it for this car back then.. The cars owner was a family man, home every night, no priors, no record, wife kids etc to back him up..

It has since been verified that the location where T. Arnold would stay when in Chilliwack was right next door to the residence where the suspect car was located. That alone would seem to warrant a deeper look now but it was not to be. Some unknown source has prevented that. Something unknown trumps all else and stands in the way..

I tried, wish there was some other way but I never found it..
I don't post here often any more but do understand that interest in most any cold case increases on anniversary dates. I have always hoped for more here..

Thanks for collecting and posting the article Deb, makes me wonder motives for some statements at times..
RCMP believe this was a well-planned crime.

wellwell you did a good job trying to put things together. A couple of points in regard : Chandler using the boat, victim bodies were dumped in deepest water weighed down. Kelly was found mere feet from shore. Would be a strange thing to do if a boat was being used. April in Alberta towing a boat sticks out like sore thumb. Florida.. not so.. etc..

From a little known time frame, Barb Stoppel and Terry Arnold travelled with the fair from Winnipeg to Armstrong BC during the late summer of 1980. Arnold drove the car in which Barb travelled along with a couple of others. Barb said that they had stopped at a Lake believed to be along the way somewhere in southern Alberta where they had watered the animals. She liked the place and wanted to go swimming except for the unwanted attention being directed at her by T. Arnold at the time.. I suspect it may have been Chin Lake. Barb went on to say that Arnold had even asked her for the photo she kept of herself in figure skater outfit.. He was obsessed..

This point could probably be confirmed if it mattered but I think it is over as far as T. Arnold is concerned no matter what more should surface.

Truly sad for Kelly for it is only the truth that everyone wants now.. Maybe there was a partnership of sorts at the time that has skewed the investigation outlook? I do question whether the following statement is more due the inability of the Police to "solve" the case than what is indicated by the actual facts..
RCMP believe this was a well-planned crime.
Is it possible that Terry Arnold and Oba Chandler met up at some point?

Both had ties to Florida. Many travelling midways were and are based in Florida. Chandler attacked a Canadian in Florida in 1989, which contributed to his arrest for the triple murder of an Ohio mother and her daughters. All three were disposed of in a manner similar to Kelly.  I have not read of Chandler visiting a funeral home or hospital to see his victims.

Terry Arnold had worked in a restaurant in Florida, according to an article by the Calgary Herald's Suzanne Wilton, posted in the first thread here.

Snowbirds from Canada travelled to the U.S. for the winter even then, although in Western Canada, Arizona was probably the more popular choice.

Another point: Arnold had family in Bentley, Alberta at some point. Bentley is near Gull Lake. Kelly was dumped in another body of water, at Chin. Someone travelling west on Highway 1 may have taken a shortcut through Standard on the way over to Highway 21 and then up to Bentley. It would be faster to  head straight up Highway 21 from Highway 1, but people sometimes make stops for their own reasons. Chandler used his boat in rape and murder.

So there are common threads  and differences. Could Oba Chandler have come to Canada to meet Terry Arnold? Did they work together? Arnold was paid in cash when he worked in the U.S. (and worked under an assumed identity) and Americans could probably do the same here, back in those days. Crossing the border was much easier. The American investigators said that they expect to learn more about Chandler's crimes from 1963 on, in the coming years.

Food for thought.

Hamilton / Re: Tim Bosma - 32 - Missing - May 06, 2013 - Hamilton, ON - Murdered
« Last post by jellybean on April 25, 2016, 04:14:17 PM »

Accused’s girlfriend chokes back tears during Tim Bosma murder trial
Mark Smich’s girlfriend Marlena Meneses recorded a plea to her boyfriend while interviewed by police. “Please just tell the truth ... I told them everything I know. I told them Dell did everything,” she said.

Marlena Meneses thought she might be pregnant when her boyfriend Mark Smich was arrested for the murder of Tim Bosma.
Meneses, then 18, and Smich were walking in Oakville when police apprehended and handcuffed them on May 22, 2013. Smich was charged with the murder of Tim Bosma — the Ancaster dad who disappeared on May 6, 2013 after taking two men for a test drive in the pickup truck he was selling online.
Smich’s friend Dellen Millard had already been charged in Bosma’s death.
The pair are now on trial for first-degree murder.
On Monday, Meneses, now 22, was back on the stand to be cross-examined.
During her statement to police after her boyfriend’s arrest on May 22, the jury heard, Meneses recorded a video plea to Smich. She cried on the stand Tuesday as Millard’s lawyer Nadir Sachak read a transcript of that plea.
“Please just tell the truth ... I told them everything I know. I told them Dell did everything,” he read.
She choked back tears as she nodded — those were her words.
“You owe it to me and to this family,” it continued.
“I love you and I miss you. I’ll be waiting for you. I’m going to get a pregnancy test, I’ll tell you if I’m pregnant or not. I love you. I love you so much. I’m sorry your stupid friend got you into this situation. I hope you’re OK and I hope you never forget me. Love you.”
Sachak also asked Meneses about Smich’s sister’s wedding on May 19, 2013 — just days before his arrest, and days after police had announced that Bosma’s burned remains had been found (and Millard’s charges had been upgraded to murder).
Meneses had previously testified that she’d urged Smich to go to police after Millard’s arrest, to tell them the truth, but that he didn’t because of the wedding — he didn’t want to miss it.
He suggested she was conflicted about attending the wedding, and that it “troubled her” to be there — knowing what the Bosma family was going through. She agreed.
But then Sachak showed the court photos of the happy couple at the party — Smich smiling and giving two thumbs up in his suit, and Meneses posing with her boyfriend and his mother, smiling in a black dress and pink shawl.
Meneses cried, as she agreed it was her in the photos.
“It was a nice wedding,” she said quietly.
Meneses had texted her sister a photo of her and Smich that night and wrote: “our wedding is next.”
Sachak suggested that Smich was her world — and that the reason she took his word that Millard had “done everything” was because she didn’t want to know the truth. That her whole world would come “crashing down” if she asked what really happened.
“You really wanted to believe in your heart and your soul that Smich didn’t do anything,” Sachak suggested.
She agreed. She didn’t ask because she didn’t want to know.
Other Alberta Locations / Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
« Last post by jellybean on April 25, 2016, 03:40:16 PM »

MacNeil's supervisor testified his performance had "peaks and valleys" but there were no serious problems until June 2014.

That's when the constable agreed to help a Hinton mother track down her troubled adult son and used police databases to obtain information. He's accused of sharing some of that restricted, privileged information with the mother, a clear violation of RCMP protocol. At the time, MacNeil didn't think he'd done anything wrong.

MacNeil's supervisor confronted him about the breach. Sgt. Danny Knight also testified at the disciplinary hearing last month.

"I was absolutely confident that I had been lied to about this," he said. "It's a fairly egregious thing. The whole premise of what we do is based on honesty, integrity, professionalism. I can't overlook it and say it's a one-off, a mistake and leave it at that."

MacNeil testified his boss had mentioned the possibility of a code of conduct investigation, and he panicked.

"I saw my whole life evaporate before my eyes," MacNeil told the disciplinary hearing.

"A pain went across my chest. I thought that was the end of my RCMP career. I saw everything I worked for in my life slip away. I didn't know how I was going to tell my wife my career was over. That we were going to have to rely on her income. And that I'd just kissed the last seven years of my life goodbye."

Formal charges laid

MacNeil kept going into work at the Hinton detachment. But in August 2014 he was ordered to turn in his uniform and keys. The constable was given two options — resign or take a medical pension. He refused to do either. MacNeil still wanted to be a Mountie.

'I saw my whole life evaporate before my eyes. A pain went across my chest. I thought that was the end of my RCMP career.'
- Const. Liam MacNeil, at his disciplinary hearing
The next month he wrote a letter to the RCMP K-Division commanding officer to formally revoke his signature on the voluntary resignation form he signed the year before.

An internal email sent in September 2014 from a high-ranking Mountie to other superior officers was read aloud at the disciplinary hearing.

The staff sergeant wrote: "It looks like Liam won by not picking an option. Who would have thought? Looks like the (voluntary resignation) is not worth the paper it's written on."

MacNeil was formally charged with three counts of discreditable conduct in July 2015.

His three-day hearing, covered only by the CBC, was held in Hinton at the end of March.

During the hearing, his lawyer Nicole Jedlinski accused the RCMP of unfairly targeting MacNeil.

"It seems like they want Constable MacNeil to leave the RCMP no matter what," she said. "The evidence points to a consistent pursuit by the RCMP to end Constable MacNeil's career."

edlinski added: "It may not have been looked at the same if it was a different officer."

After two days of testimony, the lawyer asked to have the charges against MacNeil quashed, citing an abuse of process.

The case now hangs in limbo. The RCMP disciplinary website does not indicate if MacNeil still faces the disciplinary charges, or if his lawyer successfully got them thrown out.

MacNeil is still a Mountie. He has declined comment to the CBC.
MacNeil is expected to testify sometime this month at the Vader murder trial.

Other Alberta Locations / Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
« Last post by jellybean on April 25, 2016, 03:36:11 PM »
HOLY COW.. OH NO!!  ::)

PART 1 -
Vader trial witness an Alberta Mountie with troubled career
Const. Liam MacNeil docked five days pay for compromising McCann crime scene

By Janice Johnston, CBC News Posted: Apr 25, 2016 5:00 AM MT Last Updated: Apr 25, 2016 10:17 AM MT

On the first day of the Travis Vader murder trial in March, the accused killer's lawyer criticized what he called the RCMP's "negligence and inept investigation."

Brian Beresh said the Mountie who "mishandled" the McCanns' motorhome fire scene — a key crime scene site for possible evidence in the disappearance of the St. Albert couple Vader is accused of murdering — was "eventually fired by the RCMP."

That's what Beresh thought, but he was wrong.

Const. Liam MacNeil is still a Mountie. And he's in trouble again.

The mistakes MacNeil made in July 2010 have been damaging and costly on a number of levels. His career has never been the same.

The Marie and Lyle McCann murder investigation was damaged from the start. That led to millions of dollars spent by the RCMP to try and play catch up.

We also now know the RCMP did not tell the media or the public the whole story in the early days of the McCann investigation.

Motorhome fully engulfed in flames

MacNeil became an RCMP officer in 2009 and was posted to Edson, Alberta. Only a year into the job, he was sent to a campground near Minnow Lake shortly after 7 p.m. on July 5, 2010 to assist the Edson Fire Department with a vehicle fire.

When he got there, the motorhome was fully engulfed in flames.

According to a 2013 RCMP disciplinary decision obtained by CBC, MacNeil's "initial investigative steps were adequate."

The report states he "quickly recognized the suspicious nature of this fire given the awkward position of the parked vehicle and the significant monetary value of the motorhome."

That night, MacNeil took photos and seized limited evidence. But he didn't interview the owner of the campground or any of the other campers. He spotted fresh tracks next to the driver's side of the motorhome leading into the nearby bush, but did nothing to investigate them.

At the time, the rookie constable thought he was likely dealing with a stolen vehicle or an insurance fraud case, according to the disciplinary decision. But instead of securing the scene, once the fire was out MacNeil contacted a towing company to have the burned-out motorhome taken away and left before the tow truck even arrived.

Forgotten messages

MacNeil used the motorhome licence plate to determine it belonged to the McCanns. Back at the Edson detachment, MacNeil made one phone call to try and reach the McCanns but got no answer.

He called the St. Albert RCMP detachment and spoke to a clerk, who told him how to contact their investigators through the Canadian Police Information Centre (CPIC). MacNeil claimed in his report that he sent a CPIC message asking St. Albert RCMP officers for help locating the McCanns.

It was a false claim. MacNeil later revealed he forgot to send the CPIC message. So Mounties never knocked on the McCanns door or checked with their neighbours. It was five days before the McCanns were reported missing. By then, the trail had gone cold.

At the time, the RCMP was sharply criticized for their handling of the case. Retired Mountie and criminologist Bill Pitt likened the force to keystone cops.

"Well I think from the get-go that it has been a botched investigation," Pitt said in 2010. "I think five precious days have been lost. I think the lives of two people lie in the balance. I'm embarrassed."

RCMP spin doctors scrambled to put on a brave face. But they didn't share the full truth.

'They dropped the ball'

Now-retired Sgt. Patrick Webb assured the media in 2010 that, after finding the burned RV, police called the couple's home repeatedly and officers knocked on the door of their St. Albert home, but couldn't find them.

"At the time, it was more of a case to try and just get ahold of them," Webb said. "There was no report at that time that they were missing. It was simply just an effort to try to contact them."

But now it is known, according to the RCMP disciplinary decision, that "effort" consisted of only one phone call.

When the McCanns were reported missing on July 10, 2010, a news release sent out the next day by St. Albert RCMP indicates they either didn't know about the burned out RV, or else they were unwilling to publicly connect the dots. The release says "the motorhome was last seen in the Edson area around July 5th."

Pitt told the Globe and Mail at the time: "It's either a lazy investigation, dumb investigation, or a combination of both, but they dropped the ball."

At the end of that turbulent week, RCMP deputy commissioner Peter Hourihan faced the media and acknowledged mistakes had been made.

"I respect that public confidence is contingent upon police competence," he said. "And I want to assure you we are doing everything we can with the best people we can to make sure that we follow up on everything that we can."

Hourihan revealed the Mountie who made mistakes with the motorhome crime scene had been placed on administrative leave. He did not name Const. Liam MacNeil.

MacNeil docked five days pay

MacNeil returned to frontline duty in Edson later in 2010, but got into trouble on the job again in October over improperly handling exhibits and failing to fully investigate a hit-and-run incident.

In July 2011, MacNeil was slapped with two counts of disgraceful conduct and served with notice of a disciplinary hearing.

Eight months later, there was a recommendation for MacNeil's discharge. Instead, the constable went on a medical leave that appears to have lasted for a year. MacNeil has been diagnosed with a medical condition. The details of the diagnosis are covered by a publication ban.

MacNeil's disciplinary hearing was fast-tracked so it could be conducted by video conference on July 23, 2013. The two counts of disgraceful conduct were changed to neglect of duty by consent.

MacNeil pleaded guilty, and was docked five days pay. A letter of severe reprimand was also put on his file, and he had to sign an undated voluntary resignation form in order to remain a Mountie.

At the hearing, MacNeil offered what the disciplinary decision called "a sincere apology" to the McCanns "for compromising the investigation into their disappearance."

By that time, the constable was back on the job, temporarily transferred to the Hinton detachment.

'I saw my whole life evaporate before my eyes'

MacNeil took the stand in his own defence last month in Hinton at his second disciplinary hearing.

"When I started in Hinton," MacNeil testified, "I was advised I would be monitored closely for my performance and even an allegation of a code of conduct for even a minor infraction could be fatal for my career."
I think that if the police did have a suspect, they would not tell the public. So possibly they may have one.
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