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Messages - BaySailor

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31
  I don't know if it's possible in a matter this serious for the defendant to elect trial by judge alone (I think I recall another murder trial in NB years ago where it was but the name escapes me) but that might very well be the best route to take.  Personally, for various reasons, I'm never comfortable with those types of trials when serious offences are involved, but if it's best for all concerned so be it.

I believe that the defenses initial request for a jury trial must stand, and though the defense can make an application to have that changed to a trial by judge, the prosecution has to accept the request.

edit: beaten to it!

32
So if 5000 jury summons were issued and 1000 potential jurors screened the first time around, how many will they need a second time when EVERYBODY in southern NB is now well aware of the circumstances from the first trial? You couldn't avoid hearing about it in Saint John. Will this not be a problem?

33
I should have stated that my comment regarding the family hiring of investigators was for the period after the conviction. I am aware that someone did such prior to the trial and I too assume that was Gold. I can't imagine any family not doing so themselves after the conviction was registered in the interest of both justice for the incarcerated son, and the murdered father when they believe the true killer to be another person. It is not an uncommon occurrence where such hired help hand their leads to the prosecuting attorneys. I have not heard of anyone sniffing around Rothesay or Saint John since the original trial.

I believe, but am not certain, that the private investigators hired shortly after the murder were interviewing potential witnesses. That would lead me to think that this was preparation for a defense as opposed to a search for a different suspect. Dennis left the police station the day after his father died knowing they believed he was the killer.     

We don't know what measures and efforts the Oland's have taken to exonerate Dennis. But one thing is certain, without police assistance and cooperation, it is an impossible mission. Surely you know this BaySailor.

First of all, I am sure that law enforcement would reopen the case if someone brought new evidence forward, particularly given the connections the Olands have. Rothesay is full of lawyers and judges, including a former Supreme  Court of NB judge whose family Dennis is very close to. Between their own lawyers and their connections I am certain they have the influence to have the case reopened if anything interesting would show up. They have the money to hire the best investigators available should they want to. In my conversations with family members and friends there has been no inkling of any attempts to pursue other options. That doesn't mean that there hasn't been, but my crowd in Rothesay are unaware of such a thing and it appears the press aren't either.           

Are you saying that you have had conversations with Oland family members and friends, or are you referring to your family members and friends?  Just curious.  :)

The former.

34
Sorry to learn that there will possibly be fall out among family members.  One would hope they would stick together during all of this.

This may be very difficult for their mother, who would be working so hard to keep everything together.

At times like this, siblings can take sides - it is not uncommon. Very often one is left out in the cold... Friends stand by and watch with a helpless feeling, yet they cannot interfere.
Divorces can create hard feelings, and family breakups as an example, but murder creates chaos in families.

One tragedy heaped upon another.

Nothing much can be done. It is in their hands to bring their relationships towards an even keel, and a better understanding.

I wish them all the best.

jb

Well said.

35
I agree with you BaySailor.

In my own opinion,  the families main goal has never changed - Get Dennis home and make sure that he never returns to jail.

 I doubt that the family will really look for anyone else.  Why would they want to stir up the pot? They would want to put this nightmare behind them.

They would hope that all will settle down - much of it will be forgotten in time, and they can continue on as normal within their own social group, as if nothing ever happened.- without Dick of course.

Perhaps this Xmas, they will forego THE  flaming Xmas pudding - that constantly sputtered out sending Dick into a tirade ruining the whole day for everyone.

I don't think they will miss that.

jb

OK, that was funny! Yes, perhaps they'll have pie at Christmas instead.

They still have the difficult task of rebuilding the family, and it will be interesting to see if and what any fall-out there might be among the siblings. Given he is now innocent under the law he could resume his involvement in Far End, which would have it's 3 shareholders controlling an enormous amount of money- Dennis, a sister who supported him, and one who didn't.   

36
I should have stated that my comment regarding the family hiring of investigators was for the period after the conviction. I am aware that someone did such prior to the trial and I too assume that was Gold. I can't imagine any family not doing so themselves after the conviction was registered in the interest of both justice for the incarcerated son, and the murdered father when they believe the true killer to be another person. It is not an uncommon occurrence where such hired help hand their leads to the prosecuting attorneys. I have not heard of anyone sniffing around Rothesay or Saint John since the original trial.

I believe, but am not certain, that the private investigators hired shortly after the murder were interviewing potential witnesses. That would lead me to think that this was preparation for a defense as opposed to a search for a different suspect. Dennis left the police station the day after his father died knowing they believed he was the killer.     

We don't know what measures and efforts the Oland's have taken to exonerate Dennis. But one thing is certain, without police assistance and cooperation, it is an impossible mission. Surely you know this BaySailor.

First of all, I am sure that law enforcement would reopen the case if someone brought new evidence forward, particularly given the connections the Olands have. Rothesay is full of lawyers and judges, including a former Supreme  Court of NB judge whose family Dennis is very close to. Between their own lawyers and their connections I am certain they have the influence to have the case reopened if anything interesting would show up. They have the money to hire the best investigators available should they want to. In my conversations with family members and friends there has been no inkling of any attempts to pursue other options. That doesn't mean that there hasn't been, but my crowd in Rothesay are unaware of such a thing and it appears the press aren't either.             

37
I should have stated that my comment regarding the family hiring of investigators was for the period after the conviction. I am aware that someone did such prior to the trial and I too assume that was Gold. I can't imagine any family not doing so themselves after the conviction was registered in the interest of both justice for the incarcerated son, and the murdered father when they believe the true killer to be another person. It is not an uncommon occurrence where such hired help hand their leads to the prosecuting attorneys. I have not heard of anyone sniffing around Rothesay or Saint John since the original trial.

I believe, but am not certain, that the private investigators hired shortly after the murder were interviewing potential witnesses. That would lead me to think that this was preparation for a defense as opposed to a search for a different suspect. Dennis left the police station the day after his father died knowing they believed he was the killer.       

38
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent.

Of course the police and prosecution would state there is no other suspect. With the contamination of the crime scene by police, and the tunnel vision of police on day one of the investigation, there was no chance for a thorough investigation into this murder. I think we have to agree that it was a crime of passion (or less likely, a random drugged-out maniac). As far as another suspect being considered, if LE had RO's cell phone, I think a viable suspect who hated him (one of many) would have shown up on his phone log.  There was no reason for Dennis to take RO's phone. He could easily explain every call made, or received from his father.  IMO it makes more sense that the real killer took and disposed of RO's phone for the obvious reason of disposing of evidence. That it pinged off the Rothesay tower was one more peg in Dennis's coffin of circumstantial evidence. 

LE will never investigate another suspect, and Dennis will never be cleared by a sector of public opinion, if he gets off or not.

There are a variety of reasons why Dennis, if the killer, could have wanted to take his fathers iphone, including problematic web searches, compromising photos of the mistress, and texts or phone calls he might have felt were incriminating. It's quite probable the killer had no idea what calls and texts could be traced without the phone- I certainly didn't until this trial started.

If the Olands wanted to find the killer, either for justice for Dick or exoneration for Dennis, they have over 30 million bucks at their disposal to hire investigators with, without Derek or others pitching in. 2 years later they haven't got anything to give their defense team?   

39
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None.

That we know of.
Nish

Both the police and prosecution have stated that there aren't, and clearly Gold would have brought forward any reasonable alternatives in his defense presentation; to not do so would be negligent. 

40
if it was not Dennis, is there someone else that hated this man.

He was about the most disliked man I know, in fact the most, I think. He'd also had some difficult business relationships that includes a contractor once punching him in the face. That being said, there are no other suspects. None. 

41

I am curious as to why Dennis' sister Lisa doesn't appear to be around in the trial or this appeal. Also agree that maximum security is not required for Dennis. But where else do they send a person convicted of murder?

There's a bit of a split there, the biggest tragedy here in IMO, that and the fact that some kids will live with this hanging over their heads regardless of the final decision.

Medium security penitentiarys  have their fare share of murderers in them, and I suspect very low risk offenders go to minimum security before long. I toured Springhill with a corrections officer years ago (I doubt they'd allow that now) and the cell I visited on one wing was that of a fellow convicted for a drug related murder. Security still seemed pretty tight (other than them allowing me in, of course).  Dorchester has both medium and minimum and might be easier to transition an inmate from one to the other, but the old building is a very foreboding place. It feels like an 18th century British asylum (from the outside!)

42
  To paraphrase, Gold said it was devastating to his client, and Gregory said it was no big deal. lol

I was really surprised at Gregory's comment. In a hearing that is really a conversation among 3 parties a blatant misdirect/ lie like that would make me distrust that lawyers arguments more, but I suppose judges are used to that sort of thing.   

43
I want to reiterate, that the fact that Oland's brown jacket was apparently seized illegally in the search warrant, and that it was sent out of province to be tested when it shouldn't have been, has no bearing on why I feel that there was enough cause for "reasonable doubt" in his guilt. I would be enraged to see a guilty person get off due to a legal technicality or innocent, inept errors made by LE.

The following excerpt lists the most significant grounds which should have caused "reasonable doubt" that Dennis was able  to slaughter his father in a blood spattered, horrific, gory crime scene, mere minutes before he was captured on a surveillance camera, with no sign of blood on him. This is pure logic that he would have been covered in blood, or at the least, it would have been clearly visible. There is the other significant witness evidence by the two men who heard the sounds when Richard was being killed, that could have cleared Dennis outright, but was discounted when one witness changed his testimony re the time it happened from his statements to police the next day after the murder, and from his same testimony at the pretrial. I don't consider him as credible as his friend who never deviated from his account. And as far as the tiny spots of blood on the brown jacket...

"None of the expert witnesses could say how long the blood had been on the brown jacket or how it got there. Others testified that the killer likely would have considerable blood spatter on his or her clothes, based on the amount of spatter at the crime scene.
No blood evidence was found on any other articles of Oland's clothing, his car, home or cell phone."

http://www.cp24.com/news/oland-lawyers-launch-attack-on-house-of-cards-murder-conviction-1.3117342

The Court didn't even bother to hear the prosecutions case for the evidentiary value of the jacket; they listened to the defenses objections and determined that they did not need to hear the prosecutions rebuttal. I would think that means the Court felt the defence argument was not sufficient to overturn the trial judges ruling on that evidence as otherwise they would surely have let the prosecution have their say.

The Chief Justice's comments lead to me believe that their sticking point in making a decision is Dennis's behavior after his father's death. After day 1 in the Appeals Court the trial judges instructions to the jury appeared to be an issue for the Chief Justice but he later said he been convinced otherwise to some degree by the prosecutions rebuttal of that concern, perhaps allayed by the fact that the prosecution and defense sat with the trial judge for hours on different occasions to help the judge create his instructions to the jury.

The fact we did not hear a decision rendered immediately is good news for the defence, and I am curious to know what aspects of Dennis's behavior they are considering. His trip to the wharf? The dry cleaning the next day? His normal shopping behavior? I wonder...     

I was surprised at the nervousness shown by both Gold and the Prosecutor this week when speaking. I would have thought they had both done this often enough to be comfortable talking to judges but by times they stuttered, stopped and restarted sentences, and the prosecutor giggled nervously frequently when making points. Apparently Provincial Supreme Court is nerve wracking, even for the pros.     

44
Thank you Have faith.  So - let's see, it is Tuesday the appeal to throw out the verdict?

Somewhat confusing - if that is correct.  As Supreme Court to rule on bail pending a re-trial.

Is that correct?

The institution is Maximum Security.  Good grief.  I don't think Dennis needs that type of imprisonment. lmo

jb

Yes this is the appeal to overturn the verdict, or order a new trial. The bail appeal comes later.

currently scheduled for Oct. 31

45
I wasn't referring to the Oland case, Bay Sailor.  I was referring to jellybean's reply #1547, the case of a pastor in Ontario who had originally been charged with murdering his pregnant wife and then being found guilty of manslaughter at trial.  To make a long story short, he was then granted bail while awaiting an appeal of that conviction.  Since there had been evidence of premeditation in that case, I was questioning the reduction in the charge.

Big oops, please excuse me as I slink off into the wings on this one.  :-[  I am very sorry about that. Please accept my apology.

BaySailor

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