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Messages - GSAR_Mbr

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241
I am glad that the family will now get the closure they deserve, however I do hope that someday the truth behind what really happened comes to light in this case.   :-X

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Hello All,

Just wanted to take a moment and add a few responses to questions I saw from above.

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Did the family have a camp site, which they owned.?  The shoes were found around the car area, surely then, they must belong to him.

If my memory on this file serves me correctly, yes the family did have a camp site, or a camp of a friend that they frequented. It was searched extensively to my knowledge by RCMP PDS and GSAR personell.

Thank you for the update on him. Could they not check the DNA from the inside of these shoes?  Or would that be taking up too many resources?
JB, I dont think that resources in this case came into play, my understanding of the circumstances were that due to the spring thaw which was occuring and the length of time that the shoes were out in the wooded area it would be difficult to gather a sample for DNA testing. Now I have no experience with DNA testing myself but for the shoes I would presume the only source would be caused by the bodies persperation? Thinking of the thaw/rain etc I would think that it would be so diluted that they may not have been able to gather enough of a sample if they tried?


This search actually pulled teams from across the Province and I was out to assist on this one. The police along with our Search Managers have gone over many theories in regards to the status of Greg still being missing. 

The family was unable to confirm 100% that they were Greg's shoes but if I remember correctly they noted he had shoes like them. I dont think that many people could say with 100% certainty that a pair of shoes belonged to their loved one, I know I could say whether I thought they might be my sisters shoes if I were in the same situation but I wouldnt be sure.

I simply say this because it was my understanding that Greg was usually in contact with his family and I noticed above that someone said he wasnt or that they thought he wasnt. Just wanted to put what my memory serves to me on this one, I do not know that for a fact.


I will also note that there is a Facebook Group for Greg and some locals are discussing going out to the area where Greg's car and "The shoes" were located. I think this is a great idea and wish them all the power. Hopefully they turn up a clue that the police and GSAR members didnt find.

For those that are wondering the footwear were located be an RCMP PDS member, his K-9 Partner and a GSAR Member. I cant give any other details on that though as until Greg is home with his family/returned to his family this could all end in court if there ever was found to be foul play.


Hope my comments make sense.

-GSAR_Mbr



243
Jobo,

In regards to the dogs the way the work is they follow skin rafts for scent. We as humans are falling apart at the seems dropping millions of microscopic particles which are covered in our scent.

These dogs train to follow the trails of these skin rafts so alot comes into play, wet weather, temperature, if other people are in or have been in the area.

While I work and train with the local Police K-9 unit where I am from and I know how accurate this dog is, most dogs are not that effective during searches mainly because there are other people in the area(hunters, family, searchers)

Helicopters and dogs are merely an added resource in the Search Managers tool kit. You dont replace your set of box wrenches just because you have an adjustable.

Im not saying by any means that you were saying the dogs should be used more than other resources, my analogy there is just to prove that even though I have little faith in dogs locating the missing person before search teams will (in most cases) that they are still a VERY valuable asset to have

-Gsar_Mbr

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No Problem, I unfortunatly had to work and was unable to attend and assist in this search. NB & PEI Teams were called in on this one similar to the Search for Harris Hill on November 11th

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JB, & Capeheart

In regards to could he have been swept out to sea.. I would definitlty agree with the newer information that he was sitting near the edge on rocks that he could have been pulled in by a wave/voluntarily entered the water.

As per would the fishermen have located him in the water it is about a 60/40 chance(60 that they wont). There are alot of Factors that come into play, especially current and water temp. The colder the water the longer it takes a body to surface. I have seen some bodies in Lakes surface the next morning, others 5 days later(in the middle of the summer last year in both those cases) We had a situation last year in NB where a swimmer drowned in the Bay and he was not recovered for over a week due to water roughness and how long it took for him to surface.

It is not uncommon for people who get swept out to not come back to shore for a long time if at all.

-GSAR_Mbr

246
It is very sad to see Laura Lee Robertson another victim of domestic violence. This has to end, this is crazy that this woman has lost her life over some stupid argument. To live all the years she has and had a family of her own, I feel so sad for them.  She had a good life, active and working and family and friends and a person just stopped her life without any regard for anyone. I congratulate the investigators on this case that they were able to get the man responsible for Laura Lee's death. I extend my sympathy to the family and it sure has to be hard on the community who worked with Laura Lee and knew her well. God bless and know that : there are people who do care. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Well written Capeheart. Lets hope the courts get this one right.

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They had unpaid volunteers..some were with GSAR and all were given a run down of how to do things.
 
 EVeryone knows to look for anything out of place, broken limbs (trees bushes), items that shouldnt be there, most people do have very good common sense and are careful enough that is they find something they dont disturb it and call police. Take a step and look while paused etc...Im not going to get into a big explanation

Just because they arent all professionals doesnt mean they are idiots either.

Thats part of the problem, just because someone doesnt have any training doesnt mean they cant do an outstanding job..and if volunteers, family and friends didnt do what they have done NO ONE WOULD HAVE.

Im not saying this is what happened next, this is just an EXAMPLE

what if that woman had been taken somewhere alive and left injured?

would it be better in the long run to find her dead weeks later by professionals or have a group of caring smart 'unprofessionals' "find her and get her help so she might have survived and told everyone what happened to her herself?

If the family wouldnt have pushed..well, I cant prove what i was going to say so i'll stay quiet on that point.

You say your comments are to educate, no one questioned why no GSAR search was done, it was an out of place comment . To the police there was no sign of foul play therefore no SAR team would be deployed. . MOST of us are logical and WILL look up codes of conduct/practise manuals and reasearch, Not all of us but some of us.

 I think the term search, has throughout meant, of the last immediate area she was seen alive, her apartment/street/block. A very simple place to start and that took a few days.

we obviously arent going to see eye to eye on this, and I can deal with that.
I dont want this thread to end up in a circus, so how about we just agree to stop so this doesnt end up like other threads?
sound like a deal?

I think some of your wording gets people annoyed..lol thats why your posts are taken the way they are. Not much you can do about that ...



I can certainly agree to... potentially not see eye to eye. (because portions we do seem to be seeing eye to eye on just not understanding each others wording)

I will make the following corrections regarding my post though: Professional SAR volunteers I refer to are people just like Laura was, people who are on a SAR team. Trust me some of us are less then professional but I had used that term meaning on a SAR Team.

Only other notes I wish to make before simply walking away from this is:
a.)
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no one questioned why no GSAR search was done, it was an out of place comment . To the police there was no sign of foul play therefore no SAR team would be deployed. .
Actually Searches by police utilize Canine and GSAR so saying the police arent searching does question why no GSAR search was done and the police utilize GSAR anytime there is a chance that a person will be located in an area. For this case there was no probable area to search. I have some great reference materials that I wish were web based and I would then send you links but they arent.


Modified to add
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Thats part of the problem, just because someone doesnt have any training doesnt mean they cant do an outstanding job..and if volunteers, family and friends didnt do what they have done NO ONE WOULD HAVE.
You are right they can do an outstanding job!

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EVeryone knows to look for anything out of place, broken limbs (trees bushes), items that shouldnt be there, most people do have very good common sense and are careful enough that is they find something they dont disturb it and call police. Take a step and look while paused etc...Im not going to get into a big explanation
Not everyone does know to look for those things, most people in fact simply go looking for the subjects.
Also no need for the big explanation, I understand it fully as I train people to do these searches on a regular basis.[/i]

end of mod
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I think some of your wording gets people annoyed..lol thats why your posts are taken the way they are. Not much you can do about that ...


That is correct there isnt much I can do about that because I am being as politically correct and factual as I can. I could say the same thing you just said about all the conspiracy theories on this site everytime someone goes missing but I dont pick at those people so I dont get when I post my Knowledge in an effort to help people see why some things have occured the way they have that suddenly I get jumped on.

I am almost to the point where I will simply leave this site and stop providing any feed back regarding files.




 Have a great day:).


248

Thanks whisper, I'm glad there's been an arrest in this case. Most of us here saw this coming, IMO.

Agreed, Hopefully this sticks solid!

Someone mentioned before wondering if they could hold him on the peace bond/restraining order. I dont know this as fact but my general understanding of it is if both parties agree to meet then it breaks the order. As the order must be signed by one of the parties.(least this was hope it was once explained to me, I could be wrong)

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We all know that GSAR members are good people.

None of my comments, or anyone Else's I can think of off the top of my head are a blight on YOU or ANY MEMBER personally, or the organization as I was always under the impression that GSAR had to be given permission to go on their searches. They  just didn't get together and go.

Almost every disappearance has an initial search of the area the person was last seen , it took a few days just for that to happen.

Now I already pointed out that PERHAPS the police are doing things on their own quietly, but the whole thing seems messed up.

When anyone is missing ANY search is not a waste of resources, at least not to me or to the missing persons family.

If this was a child I don't think that comment would have gone over so well

I have no doubt YOU or ANY other member of GSAR as an individual would search if you were able to.

I too, would, be out searching if I lived closer.

I think your comment was to stick up for an organization no one has said a word against. you'll notice most of what is here is newspaper articles and comments about the 'investigation' .people aren't questioning GSAR's actions...

hope that clears things up..


Whispersoftly, I did not take your comments to be against GSAR at all, I was simply explaining that this would most likely be the reason the police had not requested/used GSAR or conducted Searches on foot.

There was no PLS in this event, least as far as the media portrays. With a child there would be a PLS(Point Last Seen) or LKP(Last Known Position) with out those you can not task people to search or it is simply burning out volunteers. Trust me I am not looking to bicker on the issue and I made it clear my comments were not to jump at anyone but simply to educate as are all my comments on here. I go off fact, and attempt to give insight into the situation from a SAR perspective/Police perspective.

There has to be a reasoning behind searching an area before you can call out unpaid Professional volunteers. Whom will without hesitation take time off work and loose money to go searching.

In saying this we have done searches in the past to simply provide comfort for a family but at the same time that does two things, it gives a family false hope that their loved one is in that area, and secondly it alienates GSAR members from the team because they are asked to search an area with the outcome virtually already known.

As I noted I would search night and day when an opportunity arose, I do not like to leave anyone behind or missing.

You are correct that GSAR must be called out by the AOJ: be it the RCMP or a municipal police force.

My posts on here often seem to get taken as if I am countering what someone is saying and that is not the purpose, yes there is the odd occasion where I am giving a heads up that people need to not be out searching if they know a GSAR team is coming because then our trackers, and other members will become less useful because we don't search for the person, we are searching for the hundreds of clues left behind as they pass through the area. I have in the past spent 2 hours tracking a family member that had gone into the woods searching for their father. Don't take me wrong, the goal is fully to locate the missing person but we do so by following the clues, both verbal clues from people who have seen them and clues left by them before going out, as well as while they are lost.


All that being said


I would be rather interested in finding out where Ms. Robertsons Remains were located, should the remains turn out to be hers.(I would be rather hopeful they aren't her, even against the odds)

I would wager that they would not have been located in any area which would have been searched should GSAR have been called in, but we shall have to wait and see if the media gets that information from the RCMP or not.

250
They were back in the apartment about 2 days ago (forensics)...If memory serves me right

dont know if they found anything, and probally never will. This case is VERY strange, right from the beginning. I dont think in any case i've EVER read or heard about ANYWHERE (except in Mexico) where they couldnt start a search because they didnt know where to look..

gives one some disgusting food for thought doesnt it...... :-\


Whispersoftly this happens all the time, I have remained rather silent on this one as I see eye to eye with most of you on the most likely chain of events here. BUT I can tell you for fact that using GSAR (Ground Search & Rescue) with out having an area to search is pointless/a waste of resources. As a SAR member I am always looking to get out searching when there is any way we can be of assistance but if you deploy resources of volunteers whom are taking time off work and tell them you want them to search for something, with out having any clue where to start it is more detremental then benificial. I apologize if my comment seems cold hearted trust me it is not. However you do not want to burn out the dedicated people who are willing to get out of bed in the middle of the night in the pouring rainstorms to go find people.

Personally I would search night and day if this were in my area and there was a location to start but the Police are correct when saying with out an area to search then there is no point in calling out searchers.

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Information:
Name: Torray Wallace
Age: 36
Sex: Male
Race: Black
Height: 6'
Weight:180
Wearing: Blue Jeans or Brown work Pants, Yellow hooded Sweat Shirt and Black Jacket.
Last Seen by Family: February 23rd approximately 17:30hrs(said he would be back)
Crossed Maine Border February 23rd at 23:30hrs
Last Seen: February 25th 2011 at Roque Bluffs State Park near Machias

Please see articles attached below:
http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/front/article/1385738

http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/cityregion/article/1399465

252
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walk out the door and go missing in a community where there is daily activity
Ahh but Capeheart this is a double edged sword, because with the hustle bustle things seem less odd/suspicious to the naked eye until someone asks the right questions to bring back to memory what they really saw. For example I do Ground Search & Rescue and Provincial Enforcement work & Computer Repair not to mention various other volunteer activities(I get around the community)

I myself have had situations where until someone asks a question about something I saw in the run of my day I dont remember seeing it. For example, I may pass a car parked on the side of the road and not think anything of it nor realize I just passed it but as soon as I get an RCMP news release about a car missing I suddenly remember seeing a car and where I saw it.

People just need to slow down and think back when they hear about things to be looking for and let their mind remember if they saw something before writing it off as if they didnt.

Its like what I read in a book as a kid about aborigional people in the past, they would hear things and see things that the white men coming to the land didnt because they werent looking for that one thing or werent listening for that one sound. They let their ears rest and their eyes rest instead of straining and then your natural instincts take over a calm ear will hear the twig snap before the strained one any day. I have tried this and it does seem to prove true!


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I have never been to the Maritimes, but have learned a bit about the Bay of Fundy.
JB, I have lived in NB all my life and spent all last summer working right on the bay of fundy, I have seen its tides change on a dime, twist a set of steel stair to the point where it took 2 men using mechanical advantage to unjam them from the edge of the concrete block they sit on. The bay of fundy is not something to mess with.

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I think that when we as humans, become familiar with our outdoor environment, we take our safety for granted  and forget about its' individual  hazzards and dangers.
I agree fully, people always take and get too used to our environment we dont pay attention to the dangers anymore which we used to.


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Capeheart, this is another one where I cant say more at this point than I already have to some of your questions.

I would make the following assumptions though on what I know and please understand these are assumptions with no fact behind them.:

-Mr. Daigle would not have been in the habit of carrying large sums of cash with him as he lived in the special care home.

-You may very well be right that he said one thing and did another by plan, or maybe it struck him on whim to be last seen where he was. By this I mean maybe he was travelling by and suddenly decided to stop there.

I would go out on a limb and suggest from what I know so far that the Police in the news reports are not being misleading when they indicate that no foul play is involved in this matter.

Hopefully Mr. Daigle turns up soon.


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Ground Search & Rescue crews were out on the weekend checking an area.. his accounts last time they were checked had not been accessed.


 
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Did anyone see him after he left the residence in the area he was headed for?
Yes but not in the area he was headed for

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And could he have just taken a bus and maybe went to another area of N.B. And is there a train station that he may have just got on a train and possibly just went totally out of the province.
No train station and it is unlikely that he would have made it out of town because the media coverage anyone giving him a drive would have called in to report where he got dropped off and Im sure that all bus stations where checked etc.

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Would there be any flooding in the area that he was headed, could he have been swept away.
No flooding but the west side is bordering the harbour, and Saint Johns famous reversing falls if one got into the wrong spot as the tide was turning it is possible but in this case I would say it is unlikely that he got swept away.

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Hopefully the public will take part in searching their properties for Mr. Daigle.
Agreed

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People should check old abandoned vehicles. Without his med's, he may want to curl up in an enclosed space.
This was completed both by Police Officers, Police K-9, and trained Search & Rescue team members in the key area's

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