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Messages - Concerned

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From what I understand from the news articles there were extensive searches that included walking the river front, knocking on doors, posting posters all throughout the surrounding area, talking to local businesses, checking garbage dumps and dumpsters, abandoned cottages, parks, neighborhoods, hospitals, shelters, roadways and walkways.  Vigils, fundraisers, community gatherings and social networking. Friends, neighbors, co-workers, and family have all posted thoughts on the public Facebook page. The authorities performed impressive air, ground, on water, under water, dog assisted searches. It doesn't appear any major discoveries have been aired. Staying safe is relative to not knowing what you are up against.

Has anyone heard the resolve of the Joyce Burns missing persons case. Joyce Burns is a 50 year old from Sudbury area, reportedly missing July 12th. She was last seen with an unknown mail in the Isabel area, reportedly had an unknown internet date taking her to Wasaga Beach, and was to return on July 14th. She did not show up for work. Her family reported her missing and stated the behavior is unlike her. A link to a story can be found at

Barrie / Re: Alexandra Flanagan - 33 - Murdered - July 2007 - Barrie, ON
« on: December 30, 2009, 10:30:15 PM »
It also appears that women over 30 who live alone are being preyed upon. They disappear without a trace from their own homes, no robbery, on-location assault, etc. Some are found. Some are not. Some are found in locations previously searched, months/year later. Where were they in the meantime? Why would this happen? What are the likely possibilities? What is the likely profile? ARe their people in the area that match that profile with a questionable past? What are the commonalities among similar disappearances? The timeframe? The time of day? The similarities on where they are taken from? How long after are they found? Did they have contractors or service providers at their house. Are they online discussing their lifestyles? How do perpetrators know they live alone? Who has access to watching them come and go? Who have they most recently conversed with?

Thank you for your thoughts. I don't have much information from the investigation side, but there is discrepancy among stories in the news and from people on her Facebook page regarding the dog being tied up. First, I don't believe Penny tied her dog up, as a rule. She would walk the dog to the back dumpster to go potty. The dog was found outside, so it should probably be clarified if the dog actually was on the leash Penny walked the dog with or not. Then it needs to be deciphered whether someone looking for or visiting Penny may have found the dog wandering outside and tied the dog to some structure knowing something was not right and not wanting the dog to get lost. This could have happened by a visitor, the co-worker that come to check on Penny, a old neighbor who was called by the children when they were informed of Penny missing, or the authorities who were responding to the call. At any rate, it probably was not Penny who tied the dog up outside on such a cold day in that location.  It would seem a good question to get resolution on, though.  What leash was used, the one by the door, or the walking leash. This would be an important piece of information. If it was the leash by the door, why was the dog tied up elsewhere with it? If it was the walking leash, the question is why would the dog be tied up with that leash?  Who was the first person to discover the dog? Who tied the dog up? Also, when was the leash on the dog? Was it on her when she was first discovered, or did someone find a leash to tie her up with upon discovery? 

As far as her falling into the river, the family as a general rule believe this to be highly unlikely. Although it was a cold and snowy week, Penny has weathered many decades in the area on cold and snowy days alongside the river fronts. She lived in this location for years and many snowy, wintery seasons. If the weather is too dangerous she has the option of other avenues to access away from the river. She does not walk across the river for McDonalds or have any destination over the river to be haphazardly walking across the water/ice. She has likely heard many unfortunate stories about others who haphazardly walked on the ice, likely causing her to to be cautious as well. A co-worker mentioned that she was very concerned about the water and ice coming closer to the house, so days before her disappearance she was cautious about the river already. The fact that the dog was with her--a dog she genuinely loved and would protect--also indicates she wouldn't take chances. She walks up the steps many times to provide relief for her dog, with her dog. She is cold by nature and likes to be snuggly warm. Her coat was by the door so she didn't have any reason to not just grab it if she was intending to go outside with the dog. The odd item is that Penny did not have her coat on. But she had her boots on. On such a cold day, it would seem to me she wouldn't just walk the dog that distance for potty wearing only a housecoat and boots. Would you? I wouldn't. Also, if she was walking the dog on a walking leash why didn't she have her coat on already? If the dog was on the walking leash and Penny fell into the river, don't we all believe there would not have been time to let go. The dog would have likely fell in, too?  She would have never let the dog outside without supervision, from what I understand. So the question becomes, why was the dog outside? How did the dog get outside? Why would the dog be tied up far outside the door on a walking leash? Was there any indication that the dog had been wandering around, indicating she was later tied?  These items, to me, indicate something else occurred that only her housecoat and boots were missing and her dog was outside. It seems to me she didn't have time to grab her coat. And, I don't think she would have her dog leashed until she was ready to go outside. How did her dog get outside when she wasn't ready yet to take the dog outside? It seems unlikely she would have opened her door if she wasn't ready to go outside because she wouldn't want her dog to venture out without her. Why was her door open? She wouldn't have wanted the dog outside until she was ready to supervise the dog's walk. She wouldn't put a leash on her dog until her coat was on. She wouldn't have anchored the dog to the reported location if she didn't have her coat on. In fact, had she ever leashed her dog there before? Something doesn't add up.

Another item for thought would be whether she would have taken her cell phone and/or cigarettes with her to walk the dog. Were those items with her or still in the house? What would she have likely brought outside with her, routinely? Did she?

Again, I don't have word from the authorities. These are just questions that come to mind, once you brought them to my attention and after reviewing the news reports again. Thank you for caring. For suggesting. For helping to question items. Maybe there is a clue there.

Barrie / Re: Alexandra Flanagan - 33 - Murdered - July 2007 - Barrie, ON
« on: December 29, 2009, 09:24:33 PM »
Diane, my whole heart and prayers for you and your family. Your words make me want to ask our thinkers...what information can we compile, sort through, look for likenesses, what profiles can enlighten us, what similarities and mapping can create patterns, questions, and items to follow up on?  How can we all become more aware of our surroundings and others, of area perpetrators, of motivators, of preventors, so that we can see the signs, question them, report them, investigate them. The more someone can provide profile descriptions of what kind of person can murder a 70 year old woman, or a 33 year old woman, or a 57 year old woman. Without a trace. Without a clue. The anatomy of disappearance.  What time frame from the time they disappear to the time of murder? Where are they taken? For how long? For why? To hear and learn more about these types of things might get us closer to our answers. To finding the individuals responsible. To thwart future occurrences. To understand and to find peace. To become more aware. To report the items we have learned may have significance. To care. To make a difference. To correct. Somehow find peace. I wish this for you, as your writing has a voice we all wish we could express. Your mother has a very loving advocate. Your children have a brave mother and they need you. Our hearts are with you on your journey. I am saddened for your pain and your loss. I believe your mother and Ms. Flanagan, and countless others are worth more than to be forgotten, lost, and unresolved. They deserve the respect. We need the protection. We need to know their lives were worth something. They deserved a chance. Love.

Merry Christmas, our dear Penny. It has been a heart-breaking 10 months without you. We don't know if you are ok. If you need us. How to find you. But we are trying. It is very hard not knowing if you are ok. People can't just move on when someone you love is missing. There is a piece of us that needs to know where to find you. What happened to you. Why. You are such a warm and loving individual. You lived your life that way. Honestly. With heart. With compassion. With love. We need to know you are ok, up in heaven, or where we can look for you here. How we can find you, here. I don't know how anyone can harm someone, especially you. In our hearts, we know you didn't fall into the river, for how many years have you lived by the river and known how to be safe. Besides, who leaves their house in a winter storm with a housecoat and boots, no coat. Surely not you. You wouldn't have left your dog stranded outside for days in cold without food or shelter. That is just not you. So what does that leave us? How do people just disappear, leaving everything behind? Why do they disappear? Why you? What are the possible theories? Someone had to have heard of something, seen something, witnessed something, know something. Is there a pattern in the area? Is there a perpetrator in the area? How many people your age are missing without a trace and with absolutely no clue? Why? Can't dates be tracked? What patterns need to be studied for answers? We don't believe you left on your own free will. If you should stumble on this message, no matter what your situation, we need a clue as to how to find you. We will figure it all out from there. We know you know you are loved, but just in case you need a reminder...we love you. We miss you. We need you home. Or, in the least we need to know. We haven't stopped looking for you. And, if someone decided to harm Penny, would you please have the compassion to in the least let us find her and bring her home. Let us find her. Help us find her. Anyone?

I am new to this site, so I am unfamiliar with how best it works. Maybe you can find some place on the site where this may be of assistance, to even one, if helpful.  I ran across a resource that may be of help to many searching for their loved ones. There is a video on how it works. It is developed so loved ones can perform research on a wide database. It seems to be a wonderful concept.  I don't know how wide and broad it is, but I can't help but feel some relief that it is out there. It appears to be created by the US Department of Justice. But has postings of people found unidentified and people missing from other countries. Canada and US are neighbors. We all know, too, that sometimes our cases cross borders. Here it is if it can help any of the site visitors. Even one would be worth it. My heart is with everyone searching.
The video describing it:
The resource:

Happy Birthday, Penny.  You were absent on Mother's Day. You were absent at your daughter's wedding. No one knows how to wish you a happy birthday, today. We get the message--you need our help. Strength, peace, love today. We are trying, we just don't know where to find you. We won't stop.

To Im-new-here, I didn't hear about the little boy that had gone missing in Wasaga around the same time Penny was missing. Did they find him? Are there any more details?

I read a story this morning about a suspcious man near kids in Kincardine where a suspicious male was parked in a gold minivan looking at children playing at Lions Park.  The guy was traveling with a woman in her 30's. The story can be found at .

It reminded me of a story in April where a woman driving a late-model gold coloured van offered to give a Wasaga Beach child a ride to school on April 30.  The gold van had stopped in the pathway that connects a trail to school with a nearby elementary school, Birchwview Dunes. That story can be found at .

I wonder if they are connected in any way. In the least, perhaps gold coloured vehicles can be investigated. I can't imagine too many of them being popular, so it should be a fairly easy find.

Capeheart, your words and thoughts are appreciated. I believe the police honestly want to find the missing, and we want them to. If only we knew what kind of equipment they were lacking, what kind of laws would better assist them, what kind of community support measures are helpful, I think it is worth every effort we all make to pay it forward.  I can't help but think if more businesses, homes and intersections had more surveillance camaras details of crimes would be pieced together better. ONE national directory, publicly accessible, about crimes, missing, murdered would help connect people to patterns and crimes. Required public disclosure of offenders residents would bring about awareness and appropriate measures for the public to take to protect themselves and their loved ones.  I think the public is owed the respect of being able to be aware and to be concerned when in the presence or vacinity of a known criminal, not to mention it may prevent crimes.  Delays in notification to other policing authorities are unacceptable. For instance, when a child like Ms. Stafford goes misisng, border patrol and surrounding police authorities should be alerted that moment, not wait two weeks for local authority to investigate, then wait two weeks for OPP to announce possible foul play. This is procedure now, but if we look at it with open eyes and hindsight could a difference have been made if all the authorities were alerted immediately? Are we wasting our legal authorities' time by waiting an inappropriate amount of time before helicopters, all-terrain, water and ground patrols are called in two weeks after, when statistics are telling us that the crime may have been committed  within the first few days? If so many bodies are being discarded in fields and Canada's vast stretches of farm land and woods are troublesome in find the missing, then what better technology exists to find the people in these circumstances?  Is it acceptable to have so many people being found dead in our rivers and our beachfronts.  What if we had national registries for food banks, homeless shelters, the missing and unidentified, as well as registries for those that rent cabins and cottages or motel/hotel rooms?  These databases could be used to help be more efficient in looking at travel patterns and in finding missing.

More sophisticated computer technology and access to technology, might, for instance allow the OPP to better research the internet date Desespere mentions.  If they had access to Penny's computer and knew of an internet date, for instance, why can't they seek all access to his computer and his online communications in the site and other dating sites or emails he may be on. Talk to the dates he went on and see if they were comfortable dating him. 

Also, more needs to be done to research what actually happens to the missing so that more can be learned and more pocedures and investigations can be made to prevent them from taking more  community members in the future. For instance, some abductions seem to be drug based, some seem to be random sexual crimes, some are serial, some come from repeat offenders that have a circular pattern of repeat assault, some seem to be part of a group of traffickers.  Are the sentences long enough? Rehabilitation successful? Is enough being done to prevent escalation, prevent crimes?  What role can the public take.  How can we raise our children better? How can we get helpf for those that display inappropriate behavior before it escalates? What task forces can be created to look at these issues, research the best practices worldwide, and instill these practices so Canada is number one in detrring its growing number of those that go missing or those found dead.

And lastly, we have to look at ourselves. Are we feeding the drug trade? Are we feeding the sexual trade? Are we not addressing behavioral problems in people that develop to believe that sexually assaulting or abducting someone is OK? Are we letting perpetrators off too easy? Are there better ways of finding perpetrators and we aren't changing because we didn't pursue technology, prevention, changes in public policy, etc...  Or, we were too busy to care.

When we are affected by a missing person, we realize how very important it is to care. How important it is to make a difference. There are no words to explain the pain of tryng to find someone you love. Where do you look? What if they need you? What if they are being harmed and helpless? What if you didn't do enough to find them? What if you never find them? What if you find them and its too late? Why are we watiting to find them, they shouldn't have gone missing in the first place.

If this is so, how safe are area residents if they can't find those responsible for Penny missing. How safe is Penny. What chance does she have of coming home. How often does this happen. Why isn't there any word on her. Someone has to know something. Are we suppose to just accept that people go missing? What better equipment. What better ways to investigate. What better ways to find someone sooner. What better ways to prevent. What can be done so others aren't found missing without a clue. What can be done. Penny is a kind person. She deserves to be found.

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