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Messages - Concerned

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It is not just this thread. RW's thread was hit too.

Somehow, it is easier to accept when foul play is ruled out. The loss is still real, I'm sure. But, knowing that they weren't needlessly or wrongly harmed by others helps. My thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of this young man. He was only 27, way too young.

Awesome, so happy to hear. Bless his heart. More please.

So very good to hear. Thanks Sap1. He has a second chance to make an awesome life, the one of his dreams. I hope he gets there.

Thanks Sap1 for the article link. I noticed that the date on the article was January 25, 2017 3:48 pm

Since then there has been an update on the case dated May 22, 2018 stating that Lindsay lost the appeal. Sadly, the circus of an appeal was one more round that Dana's family had to endure, day-by-day sitting in the court proceedings in the same room as their daughter's killer. Something a parent would do, even if it would harm their own health. The Court of Appeal found that Mark Lindsay who got in an argument with Dana and stabbed her in both eyes with a pencil, then strangled Dana with a shoelace and then went to the extent of driving her to an old construction site and driving over Dana's head twice with the car to ensure she was dead, and bought items to dispose of her body at another site, did not win the appeal on the basis that "although he was capable of appreciating the nature and quality of his actions" he was not "capable of knowing those actions were wrong." The Court of Appeal dismissed the appeal, "We do not find that the trial judge committed any error in his application of the relevant legal principles, or in weighing the expert evidence." Now, can Dana's family have some well-deserved peace?

Convicted murderer Mark Lindsay loses appeal of murder conviction
"What is really good is that him being in jail keeps some other family from suffering"
CBC News ยท Posted: May 22, 2018 4:11 PM MT | Last Updated: May 22

Site News | About Us / Re: We're Back
« on: July 10, 2018, 07:18:01 PM »

I'm venting with you. So sorry you are experiencing this. There will always be a heavy heart until answers arrive. I wish you answers. Hopefully, filled with miracles.

General Discussion / Re: Just in Case You Need Some Hope Today
« on: June 10, 2018, 07:57:07 AM »
Sometimes the fact you don't have a valid birth certificate or government identification is a big clue.

Kamiyah Mobley was abducted at birth from a Jacksonville, Florida, hospital in 1998 and subsequently raised in South Carolina. It would be 18 long years before her family would ever know what happened to her. It was only when a girl named Alexis Kelly Manigo couldn't get a job because she didn't have a valid driver's license or government identification that Gloria Williams (the woman she thought was her biological mother) told her the truth. Then Alexis told a friend, and then down the line the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children received an anonymous tip about Kamiyah's whereabouts that unraveled the mystery.

Shanora Mobley and Craig Aiken will never get those 18 years back. They'll never get to shape the future for their daughter in those formative years. Instead, it would be found that Gloria (back then) had lost custody of her two other children and was in an abusive relationship that led to a miscarriage. She claims she was on auto pilot with her life out of control when she took the baby from strangers to start a new life with her newly kidnapped baby.

Now, perhaps is a good time to pause for a moment. Kamiyah was in the hands of a woman on autopilot who lost custody of her own kids and was in abusive relationships to the point of physical harm... was raising a child for 18 years. Kamiyah will never get the benefit to experience what those 18 years would have been like had she not been kidnapped and instead raised by her own biological parents.

Gloria Williams was arrested in 2017. In June 2018, she was sentenced to 18 years on a charge of kidnapping and five years for interfering with custody. Both sentences are to be run at the same time with credit for 511 days served in jail. The judge said the sentence reflects how many years the biological parents were without knowledge of their daughter, but she could feasibly get out early for good behavior and only serve, say 15 years.

Kamiyah is left to process the overwhelming emotions and love for the only mother she has known, and the reality of the situation, that two biological parents (strangers to her) are trying to find a way to be a part of their child's life.

Craig Aiken, Kamiyah's biological father, said this in court, "I first would like to thank God for the safe return of my daughter Kamiyah. I knew walking into this morning that there would be no winners in this situation. Despite today's sentence I would like to deal with the emotional toll this ordeal has taken on my family. At this time, I choose to remain focused on mending my family together through this situation. I believe now that this is over we can continue on our journey of healing together as a family and supporting my daughter with her decision-making. So at the end of the day, I would like to say thanks to the prosecutor, the investigators, Duval County and all my supporters and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for bringing my baby home. I just say hopefully we can bring home more kids. Hopefully this situation helps other parents to get through their situation with their kidnapped kids and stuff like that. I just want to say thank everybody and appreciate the support and we're just going to go meditate on this for a little while."

What else was he suppose to say? His daughter's life was in limbo and he didn't want to alienate her, so he chose this moment to focus on her health moving forward.

But the biological mother's statement in court was perhaps more revealing. Caught in needing to find justice and represent parents everywhere whose child is abducted by a stranger, but yet not alienate her newly found daughter who has ties with the only mother she grew up knowing - the "mother" that had stolen her ability to be with her child - Shanora Mobley, the biological mother received gasps in court when she was asked what sort of sentence her daughter's kidnapper should face. Her answer came quick and to a gasping courtroom, "Death," she answered. Aiken was asked the same question, his reply, "This is the part that she makes it hard for me, because my daughter doesn't want to see [Williams] get time," he said and admitted to reporters that he felt Williams had to pay.

Mobley, for her part, described celebrating her daughter's birthday each year with a cake she kept frozen for 18 years always wondering what it would feel like to one day see her daughter again... knowing she was missing the milestones every year that passed, from first baby steps to attending prom. The father had years and years of recurring dreams, holding his baby and playing with her but he could never attach a face to the child he never saw. "The only thing I have to remember her by is her name," he said. The parents told of the two decades of unsuccessfully searching for their daughter and the toll it took. They testified that they were viewed as suspects by police, neighbors and even each other.

For her part, Alexis Manigo has changed her name. She was 18 at the time of her abductor's arrest and given the choice to reconnect with her biological parents. Their first meeting was eventually on Facebook.

At sentencing it was said there is no winners and no losers. Odd. What about those who knew the abductor lost her children but was raising another child that suddenly popped up in the equation - but they never said anything? What about social services that took the abductor's other two children away, who didn't they find it odd she suddenly had another baby? What about when the abductor came down from "autopilot" as she claimed and knew what was right and what was wrong? What about the school systems that enrolled a child without a birth certificate or proper paperwork? What about the joy of all those who for years investigated the case, prayed for the family, searched for the girl? What about the hospital, another victim of the acts of an abductor? Perhaps the terms "winners" and "losers" means something different to everybody. There was great loss, terrible loss, years of loss. And, what could define a winner? A parent that gets to see their child alive and well 18 years later as a person who would grow to be completely different than if she was raised in their loving hands, perhaps? What about all the parents who are still searching for their own child who may get some semblance of hope in knowing their child may someday be found too, perhaps a different person, but found with an ability to build a new, but different, future together, hopefully.

Each in their own pain, each trying to seek justice, each trying to regain a relationship lost.

Sad in so many ways, yet they received the news we all wait for... our loved ones to be returned to us in some way, healthy, some day.

An odd story of hope.


Thank you for the further clarification. I'm still wading through the threads and it may take a while. I didn't realize that BS was also murdered. How long after the confrontation do you think? That would insinuate he kept grudges. And, didn't always take it out on others but may have gone back when focus was off the heat of the moment.

It makes me curious of TA's life story. What happened in early life that he felt the need to do these things. Or, was it just a condition. I'm curious but hate to read up on these perps and their demons.

Again, thanks. I'll probably have more questions when I get up to the point I'm not asking silly questions.

I hope your life kept you away from these monsters and demons. It doesn't sound like fun. But, then again, it doesn't sound like you back off from it either.

D1, I can't believe you were exposed to all that. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. 

You new BS, she wanted help confronting TA. When she did he ran raucous and a person was raped that night. Did BS break up with him that night?
What do you think kept him from going after you. After all you came with her when she confronted him. Odd when he gets disgruntled he takes it out on innocent others and not BS the person who confronted him.

Then if I read correct when you met up with him years later he was bragging about all those details and on that night at that night at the bar you gave him a hassle about bragging about harming little girls. and more happens... thus your theory on the pattern and way he picks. Why do you think he may have picked the church lady.

So how did he say he got on the lake.. walked on ice? boat on water?  i just can't see someone tie someone up and put on blocks in the hole others may use.

How did Barb rid of him without getting hurt?

Regarding your experience with GW, again i'm sorry you went through that. The knowing, the witnessing, the not being able to do anything about it. I bet that made you feel helpless to believe there would be any reprieve or justice.

Did TA know he was being followed, studied, protected to some extent I wonder?

Thank you all for your patience as I try to read through the threads. I'm away at the moment, but when I get back in a few days I'll try to educate myself more. Your insight is very helpful. In my mind I'm trying to make a timeline, a map and a list of the known facts. So much information in these threads. I can tell you all have really cared. I'll try to get up to par in the next few days. Thanks for all the information. Just trying to figure out what was important, known and what was speculative and in which ways.

Thank you WellWell for the summaries. Here is where my mind has been going upon first review....

- I feel the guy was somehow connected to figure skating, or an obsession with figure skaters, or an attraction to that.
- He was 30-40 and described as heavy set of sorts. Possibly rejected at some point in his dating life.
- At 30-40 he could have had his own family with perhaps a daughter in figure skating where he goes to the competitions, skating performance, etc. Or, a hockey player that would see the performance before or after practice or games.
- I get the feeling like a girl in graceful and revealing outfits was something that struck his attention, enough to spend time trying to find a way to get alone with one. Why would that be? Did he attend figure skating events? Have children in figure skating competitions? Work at an ice rink?
- That's why the timeline of the 40-60 minutes after he picked her up, he may have been with her at the ice rink across from the phone. He may have taken her there to fulfill some fetish. Could he have made her perform? Ice skate? Spin? Twirl? Dance on the ice? Did he take her in the ice arena? Or, the parking lot? If he was heavy set, perhaps she tried running. Perhaps she was faster than him being more physically fit. The phone would be her destination... but timing wouldn't allow her a conversation, but hope.
- The fact that she was fully clothed, and possibly made the phone call could mean that he was having her "skate" for him, but had not touched her yet. She ran perhaps and then he had to murder her (in his mind) without finishing his original intent.
- It wasn't necessarily that he was following the original figure skater he saw in the newspaper, but a skater if he didn't mind being referred to another one. That's why I'm wondering when he asked the original figure skater of interest and she wasn't available, if he asked if she know of other "skaters" or another skater on her team who babysat? That's why I really wanted to know if the conversation was ever fully disclosed.

- It's interesting that city folk may not know how phones work like rural folk. That gives us a clue that he may have not lived there. Confirmed by others not recognizing him in the small town. But, yet familiar enough to be around the ice arena with an abducted ice skater. What is the ice skating connection?
- One of the reasons I was interested in knowing about the laundromat is that would also confirm that he did not live around there, but long enough to need his clothes washed. More transient then, perhaps rather than living near or living there. Still don't know if it was confirmed that he used the laundromat.

- The river Kelly was found in is of interest. It would seem rather easy for him to dump her over a bridge, but if the distance signifies that could not have happened, I'm really wondering how he would have had access to a boat to take her into the lake. He had a car, but where did the boat come from if he wasn't from the area?
- If he was a fisher, do they typically keep their boats in the area somewhere? Who checked out their boat around that time.
- If you are not from the area how did that spot become viable? How did the means become available?
- I get the feeling he lived away from the area, but in a bigger city atmosphere. He perhaps fished in the area. He somehow went to ice arenas... was he a hockey player, parent of an ice skater who went to competitions? Worked at the ice arena and had access in?
- When younger did he have a crush on an ice skater that rejected him?

- The fact that he contracted her for babysitting, he knew he had limited timeframe before someone would be searching for her. That makes me believe that he may have had children himself, found it easy to hire a babysitter, knew the timeframe... because lets face it, disposing of her body in the river when a search was likely would be risky at best, unless he was on his own self-imposed 1-3 hour timeframe for all to be done and he be back home.
- Did he have the boat in waiting as part of the evenings events? Perhaps with cinder blocks in it?

It feels like the ice arena, the ice skater, the fishing locations have an odd connection. Far enough away to be unfamiliar with phones, close enough to be known to find a boat and rid of the body fairly quickly before all were searching for her. It feels like the events would happen all in one night because it would be too risky to try to dispose of her in the days after, in the area of question.

Just some first impressions. Open to them being picked apart.

For the many years I've been on this site, I don't remember looking at the information on this case file. But, being a new reader to the information a few items came to mind when reading over half the file so far, but I need clarification on a few items:

- it was mentioned that he called from a gas station, what location was the gas station?
- he tried to find the girl's name that was pictured in the ice skating picture, was that the same girl that was a waitress?
- the girl he spent days hunting down, what were the details of the conversation he had with her about babysitting... type of girl he was looking for if she was not available?- - if he had gone to great lengths to wait for and try to find the identify of the girl in the photo... why would he just give up and look for a babysitter she recommended? It would seem to me that he would have waited until she got off from work and just messed with her... if waited several days to find her identity and talk to her. It seems odd he would move on to another that babysat. Then the focus becomes more on someone who babysat than on the girl that ice skates.
- was he seen at a laundromat? did I read that anywhere, if so what laundromat location?
- was he seen at a hotel, or was that just the hotel bar he was at to ask the girl if she knew of babysitters?
- Was the girl pictured in the newspaper ice skating the same girl he was asking about to the principle and the first girl he approached to see if she could babysit?
- and can someone confirm that the phone call of the screaming person they think is Kelly... was that near or across from an ice arena?
- of the three girls he asked to babysit, were all three ice skaters? Was Kelly an ice skater?

Site News | About Us / Re: Posting Links
« on: May 12, 2018, 09:17:09 PM »
I didn't realize that people didn't want the whole article. I started doing that years ago when people were looking back over long cases and wanting clarification on new items of relevance. At the time, only links were posted and they no longer worked. I'm guilty of posting similar articles from other sources, but only if they have a different view or new information, which I bold. I've always been a person who didn't like the snippets as they can be misconstrued sometimes without the full article or read out of context when you are really trying to make sense about details of a case. With a full article people can choose to read it in its entirety or only pieces of it. I wouldn't think it would make a person not come to the site any longer as you can always choose what you want to read and what you don't. It provided me with the way to read it for myself. I do, however, bold items in the article I think are relevant if someone merely wants to skim it.

Should I do this different from now on? I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

General Discussion / Re: Just in Case You Need Some Hope Today
« on: May 09, 2018, 10:27:22 AM »
Sometimes the social security number pops up.

Richard Wayne Landers, Jr., in 2013 at the age of 24, lived in Minnesota under a different name. He disappeared when he was five back in July 1994. Authorities think he may have been abducted by his paternal grandparents who were upset over pending court proceedings even though their son, Landers' father, was reported as "never involved in the boy's life." They pushed for felony charges for interfering with the custody proceedings, but charges were dismissed in 2008.

For 19 years, Landers was listed as a missing person until police ran his social security number and birth date. They found Landers using the number under a different name.

Lander's mother Lisa Harter was ecstatic, as one could only imagine.


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