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Messages - jellybean

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Thank you very much, July, for this update.  Hoping friends and relatives will help her children through this very tough time.


I have a thought.... The solution might be quite simple. Drug dealers,

I got to thinking about the area.  College, high school, student housing..... and woods as a meeting place to do the transactions.  Lunch hour - they would be
 waiting in the woods  for their customers.

A perfect set up for a drug dealer or dealers.

Valerie might have seen it take place, and she was turning back to college and was hit on the head to stop her from reporting it.

With this in mind, even the rest of the story now makes some sense to me.

Students would be afraid to "turn them in", so they kept quiet.


First thing the police peruse are face book sites.   Everything is done on face book, and other electronic communications. 

Facebook is putting us "out of business". Food for thought.


General Discussion / Re: MMIW Inquiry 20160803
« on: April 07, 2019, 02:06:08 PM »
I have a dear friend who happens to be Cree.  She had an English last name.
She told me that when natives were compelled to register with an Indian Agent, he would register them with an English last name.

So, they were stripped of their language, heritage and family names for generations to come.


Excellent points from all...


Were it not for that jacket, with RO's blood - even up the lining and sleeves, I would say - there is doubt.   Because, it would be odd at best that it just so happened that he had rain slicker and claw hammer in the trunk of his car. 

However, to be on the safe side of things.......

A Lesson to be learned by fathers who are mean, miserly, and have a mistress tucked in plain sight.

And the lesson is?…...

Never - Ever loan your tools to anyone - especially family!! :D   

When is this trial over - Anyone know?


quote RubyRose
From what I understand, jobo, they shared the same residence but other than that lived pretty much separate lives.  She may not even have been aware that he hadn't come home that night.  Or cared very much, for that matter.  You know the old saying "under the same roof does not necessarily mean under the same ceiling".

I seem to recall she told police she thought he was out of town on business but could be wrong about that.

Wife told detectives that she believed he was at an executive meeting of the Ganong Chocolate Company and was therefore out of town.

About the jacket
Asked why he would take that brown jacket to the cleaners - DO responded that he though the jacket might fit his son for the funeral.   Ha Ha.  It was pointed out by Pros. that his son was 12 years of age, and the size would definitely be way too big.

And I watched part of published funeral on line.  Everyone was dressed in black including regular sized 12 year old boy in a black suit.  Smaller than DO.

Police interview

Dennis began right away, talking about his father, and at one point said his father was a stickler for perfection.  He would go into a rage if not done properly.
He told the detective, that his tools had to be returned after use and placed in its proper place.  Dennis said that he recently helped his sister doing repairs on her leased farm from RO, as the place was falling apart.

It is quite possible that DO had the claw hammer in the trunk of his car, and went back the second time and murdered him with that.  When he got home, he hosed it down, and when he went to his mothers he returned the tool and dropped off the log book.

No blood on log book

Very possible DO picked up the log book on last trip, placed it in his bag, took out the hammer and murdered his father. Wrapped up the hammer in red cloth, and carried the log book to the car and placed in the passenger seat of his car.

Yes, he might have had a rain slicker in that bag and gloves, placed in the trunk, after he worked on this wife's boat, prior to the murder.
Most Sobey's customers have more than one Sobey's bag.  Dennis destroyed the bag and phone.

Since the accountant was not helpful regarding DO's affair. Best way to end the suspicion and or prove that his Dad was having an affair, was to go through his Dad's phone.  That is why - only the phone was missing.


If I recall, a video was shown by the defence showing a car that could have been driven by DO, going pass a ctv camera 3 times.  The driver had on a white shirt, and I wondered if it really was DO.  No jacket,  and shirt was white. Or was the ctv film black and white only?

The jacket also had lots of blood stains on the inside of the jacket. Perhaps someone who is computer savy might be able to bring them up, so we may have a look at them again.

The dry cleaner claimed that he did not see blood on the jacket. This does not compute. I think the cleaner lied. After all he had a reputation for spotless cleaning to defend. 

I think DO went back to RO's picked up the log book from the table, placed it in the bag and removed the hammer and murdered his Dad.  Thus, no blood on the log book.  I also believe it is very possible that DO had more than one Sobey's bag.
Don't know about you, but one bag is never enough to cart home groceries.
Thus the clean Sobey's bag in the trunk of his wife's car.  DO claimed that he drove his wife's car that day.


The jacket

First trial did show blood stains on the lining, inside the sleeves, pics are onsite somewhere.  Funny it is not discussed now by prosecution. Suddenly it is only a few bloods spots on front of jacket.  Not true.

Log Book

Is it possible that D picked up that log book, after going through it with him, telling his father that he had to return it,  placing it back into the Sobey's bag and then immediately murdered his father?

I agree with all of the posters  points.  Good thinking.


I recall that the secretary who discovered the body, ran down to the printing shop and told them that Dick  had been murdered, and  that she stayed there until police arrived.

Different stories.... or did I dream it?


So, does Ainsworth and Shaw now agree on the timeline?  If so, what is it?

Thanks.   Very confusing to me.


I agree with you Jobo, in that she was expecting someone to visit.  I have always felt it was over money, or investments.  A promise to her of big returns, that never came about.

Yes Cape, it was interesting that the person who received everything, sold Audrey's home lickity split, etc etc.


The following is also very interesting;

The defence has asked for new disclosure after the testimony of a retired Saint John police officer Monday at Dennis Oland's murder retrial in the death of his father more than seven years ago.
Former staff sergeant Mike King testified that on July 8, 2011 — the day after Richard Oland's bludgeoned body was discovered in his office at 52 Canterbury St. — officers called him to a possible related incident at a nearby apartment building at 147 Germain St.

The glass of the back door had been broken, there was blood in the sink and they found an old, small "claw hammer" in an open garage, said King.

King, a former roofer who had observed "the holes in the top of [the victim's] head," believed a roofer's hatchet, also known as a drywall hammer, may have been used to kill him, the court heard.

The hand-held tools typically have a bevelled hammer head with a waffle design "like a meat tenderizer" on one side and a sharp axe on the other side, he said.

The major crime unit investigated the break-in and determined it occurred after the Oland homicide and was unrelated, said King.
But lead defence lawyer Alan Gold told the court it was the first time the defence or Crown had heard about the incident and pointed out King didn't know how investigators made that determination.

King could not say, for example, how soon after the homicide it occurred or whether they tested the blood to see if it matched Oland's, said Gold.

...…..(how sloppy can these officers be?  They could have checked to see if the blood matched Dennis dna, as well as his Dad's - if only to exclude it.  ) jb

I have to copy the article, as the Star will want money.


Prosecution evidence concluding in Dennis Oland murder trial
By Chris MorrisThe Canadian Press
Fri., Feb. 22, 2019

SAINT JOHN, N.B.—A tense cross-examination of the final prosecution witness at the Dennis Oland murder trial has raised new questions about the time Richard Oland was killed.
John Ainsworth, the owner of the uptown Saint John building where Richard Oland was murdered on July 6, 2011, was grilled by defence lawyer Alan Gold on Friday about the loud thumps and bangs he heard that evening.

The noises likely were the sound of Oland being bludgeoned to death.
Ainsworth insisted, angrily at times, that he does not know what time he heard the noises, beyond the general range of 6 to 8 p.m. That is in contrast to his friend, Anthony Shaw, who was with him that evening and believes the noises were made around 7:30 to 8 p.m.
The time is critical to Dennis Oland’s defence. If Shaw is right, the killer could not have been Oland, since he was caught on security video shopping at 7:30 p.m.

Ainsworth’s testimony leaves open the possibility that the killing happened while Dennis Oland was at his father’s office, before he left at 6:30 p.m.
“I do not know what time it was,” Ainsworth exclaimed under intense questioning by Gold. “I have been suffering with it for eight years. I do not know.”

However, a videotaped statement made under oath by Ainsworth in 2011 for a private investigator working for the Oland family and entered into evidence on Friday, makes it clear that originally, Ainsworth also thought the sounds were made at 7:30 to 8 p.m.
“It was approximately 7:30, or quarter to 8,” he said during the interview.
Despite that, Ainsworth said once he had time to reflect on what had happened, he felt he could not be specific about the time.

“I was not paying attention,” he said.
Gold accused Ainsworth of wanting Oland to be convicted for the murder and that is why he backed off his original statement. But Ainsworth disputed that allegation.
“I am not that type of person,” he said. “I want to be honourable. That’s all. Integrity is everything.”
The testy exchanges between Gold and Ainsworth closed the prosecution case against Dennis Oland.

Among the issues explored by Crown prosecutors: A bloodstained jacket, a missing cell phone, a multitude of police errors and the bludgeoned body of one of the wealthiest men in New Brunswick.
“There’s no question that Richard Oland was murdered on July 6, 2011. The one major issue to be decided is whether it was Dennis Oland who committed this murder,” prosecutor Jill Knee said in her opening statement when the trial began in November, 2018.
Other prosecution evidence on Friday included testimony from blood and DNA analysts who identified four small bloodstains on the jacket Dennis Oland was wearing when he visited his dad on the day of the murder. Richard Oland’s DNA profile was found within three of the bloodstains.
But Gold said during cross examination of the forensic experts there are limitations to the blood and DNA evidence — there is no way to know when or how they came to be on the jacket.
“We can’t say when DNA was deposited, how it was deposited, the order in which it was


The stage now is set for the defence portion of the Oland trial, which will begin on March 5. Gold already has told the court that Dennis Oland will testify in his own defence, as he did at his first trial.

I have a feeling that Dennis is going to be found "Not Guilty", the defense is going to take two weeks to finish it's case. So we'll see then what happens.  That's all they have to do is plant "reasonable doubt" in the minds of the persons handling his final verdict and that could be very well what happens, NG.

I think you are right Cape.  At times we do not think of "reasonable doubt".


Thank you D1 for the info.  I guess Mr Big did not include Kathryn in their sting?


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