Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Ontario Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Locations => Topic started by: Chris on September 07, 2007, 02:59:01 AM

Title: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2007, 02:59:01 AM
Lloyd Eric LARSFOLK
(http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/images/children/most_recent/9700233.jpg)

Missing Since: 24 August 1981

Missing From: Caledon, Ontario, CANADA

Details: Lloyd was last seen at 19:00 on the McCormick farm in Caledon, Ontario, Canada.

Date of Birth: 04 September 1966
Sex: Male
Hair: Blond
Eye: Blue
Height: 152 cm (Unknown)
Weight: 36 kg (Unknown)
Additional Information: Eric has a darkened front tooth and a small brown birthmark on the left side of his waist.
Alias(es): Eric

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/princessofegypt96/john.jpg)
McCormick is right-handed, has freckles on his face and has a thin build. Dentals: His upper teeth are straight and the lower teeth slighty crowded. Circumstances of Disappearance Larsfolk was last seen at McCormick Farm in Caledon, Ontario Canada. Larsfolk disappeared together with John McCormick Investigators If you have any information on the whereabouts of Larsfolk, please contact: Caledon Provincial Police Department 416-584-2241 or The Royal Canadian Mounted Police 877-318-3576


Here is some additional information sent by a relative:
1.  John Jr. was never sent to hospital by John Sr.
2.  Joyce Mccormick was working the eving that John Jr. went missing
3.  There were no footprints found in the gravel pit but the search dogs had found a scent
4.  John Jr. room stayed intacted for years.
5.  John Sr. cause of death was never determined - he had several medical conditions besides alcoholism
6.  After John Sr. death I (KIM) inherited the property in 1987 and lived there for many years.
7.  The suspect who is now deceased is not John Sr.
8.  There had been no open holes on the property. The inground pool had been installed at least six years previous to the boys disappearance.

John Jr. was very much loved by his family and is sadly missed. He is still very much alive in our thoughts and prayers.
We have worked with the police and many other outside sources to try and find the boys. We will not give up helping in the search for them.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on September 09, 2007, 06:13:47 PM
Des, I actually remember spring break of 1981. We were living near Stony Plain and we had a week off. I remember it mainly because that was around the time Ronald Regean was shot and this was not long after John Lennon was shot and I remember being so terrified that everyone was getting shot.

So yes, spring breaks were common in 1981 in Alberta.

And yes, After NEP (national energy program) that shut down the oil fields in Alberta, people had no choice but to move or work in Montana, Texas and North Dakota.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on September 13, 2007, 05:31:34 PM
No idea about that, but I think that was probably the case. They tended to coincide Easter with Spring break when I was in school.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on October 02, 2008, 10:08:50 AM
I agree, they should make an effort to check those properties he owned
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Dott on November 02, 2008, 02:19:51 PM

The following is from a longer article about the DOE Network and their quest to resolve unresolved cases;

"Eric Larsfolk's family had just moved from Fort Erie into a Caledon-area
farmhouse that summer of 1981. The Larsfolks had lost their greenhouse
business and they were all looking forward to starting over.

There even seemed to be a good omen when Eric, 14, won a bicycle at the
local Dairy Queen. "We took a picture of him outside the store that day,"
recalls his father Lloyd in the living room of his Brampton home. "That was
the last picture we had of him."

He recounts the horror in a weary, hollow voice. In mid-August, their
neighbour's son arrived home after weeks in Virginia. Both about the same
age, Eric became fast friends with John McCormick and the two could often be
found on the McCormicks' sprawling 150-acre property, playing around the
gravel pit or riding in John's old Chevy.

So Larsfolk didn't think twice when his youngest son told him and his wife
Beverley that he was heading over to the McCormicks' after dinner that Aug.
He didn't know that he would never see his son again.

But then there was much he didn't know. He had no idea that John McCormick
Sr. was an alcoholic or that he had beaten his son so badly that it had sent
him to hospital. It was after his discharge that John Jr. had been sent to
the States to visit relatives.

The boy had only been back home for 10 days.

It was after 11 p.m. when a frantic Joyce McCormick arrived at the
Larsfolks' door looking for her son, John. When she learned that the boys
were supposedly together at her house -- she had been out that evening --
the search began.

"John (Sr.) was drunk at the time and he said he hadn't seen the boys,"
Larsfolk says. But Eric's bike was outside their house.

John McCormick Sr. joined in the search that night -- but that would be the
last time he would help out. He would never make a public appeal for his son
or speak to reporters.

They found the boys' footprints in the gravel pit on the McCormick property,
but they stopped at the fence.

"That was the last indication of the two boys," says Larsfolk, 71. "We
turned the world upside down to find them."

They did grid searches of the bush, dragged all the ponds, hunted in every
barn and every well. Long after they had moved away, Larsfolk would return
and search some more.

He could not let go. He still can't, even after all this time. The
McCormicks, though, packed up John's room a few days after he went missing.

John Sr. died of cirrhosis of the liver on Oct. 15, 1987.

The OPP say their prime suspect is dead, but they will say little more.

After McCormick's death, his widow sold the property and moved away. She has
never spoken publicly about her son's disappearance except to tell the local
paper, "I just want to let it go."

Psychics have repeatedly told the Larsfolks that the boys are dead and
buried near Caledon.

On May 13, 2000, the OPP searched a horse barn on the McCormick property.
Using new ground penetrating technology, they were able to investigate
whether there had been anything buried under the concrete floor. Again,
nothing.

Beverley Larsfolk died of breast cancer on May 23, 2000 without ever
learning her son's fate.

"I wonder if she's talked to Eric," her husband says softly. "I wish she'd
tell me if she has."
------------------------------------


Very sad. It sound like the police know who was responsible but were not able to prove it before the suspect died. :(

***edited to remove name

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: mauvelilac on November 02, 2008, 03:11:41 PM
DOTT: Thanx so much for that update. Explains a lot. Those two dear boys didn't stand a chance. My own father was an alcoholic. Though he is long dead, every time I hear of a beating of some young child, I remember my own and the scars that are left from them.
I only wish they could have found the remains for the other families sake. Anyone with a missing loved one will tell you, it's the not knowing that eats at you.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 08, 2009, 05:58:41 PM
This is the map of where the girls were found or went missing from . Notice how close they are to each other and how out of the way this area is.


(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h209/wabakimi/mom.jpg)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 08, 2009, 06:57:05 PM
 



There was only a two hour window of opportunity where the suspect that has been noted in this case could have canceled the two bodies. This is from when farm workers saw the boys, left the farm and from when a parent went to the home to look for them. The person who has been so far noted as the suspect was said to have been very drunk. I find it difficult to believe that a drunk person, in that short period of time could have so successfully  killed and hidden two boys.





Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: debbiec on August 08, 2009, 07:12:59 PM

Excellent information braveheart. Thanks for posting all the maps. I certainly think that they should look at the area where the hole was dug for the pool as well. It seems funny that the hole was filled in and abandoned after the boys went missing.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on August 08, 2009, 07:38:23 PM
Wow! That is interesting for sure. I am surprised that pool has not been dug up yet.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 08, 2009, 07:59:54 PM
So am I. I am getting ready to dig it up myself if I have too. It should be checked. The house is located at XXX Forks of the Credit Rd. Any helpers?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 09, 2009, 02:04:47 PM
I'm not certain it was, but I'm digging, no pun intended,  back into my memory and I think, I had read somewhere that the 'pool' was dug up but nothing found.
Also does anyone have the exact time-line, or very close to the time-line the little boys went missing? but the exact time would be nice.
I'm also going back in time and think there was a youTube video where a woman stated she thought her father committed the crime. I'm running on fussy here.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 09, 2009, 02:17:47 PM
I believe that your information is not correct, Sleuth. The RCMP do not patrol the area and have and would have nothing to do with that area. It is O.P.P. I just phoned the Caledon O.P.P and they said they would phone me back. I think very unlikely that it would have been done by now, even if they were working towards that goal, it can take along time. They need a warrant and they need to clear up some of there newer cases first.

I would like to find a team to help approach the new owners and ask permission to search and get together to dig.  If nothing comes from it, at least we can put an end to that aspect.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 09, 2009, 06:20:05 PM
   Thank you Sleuth, but Canada's Missing Children network does not have the resources nor authority to do any digging. Too controversial area for them to venture into. They just pass on any information to the police and leave it to them. For it to be dug up it would have to be the police or an independent effort.  Probably an independent  effort would be faster.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 20, 2009, 05:24:26 PM
Did some more networking on asking specific people specific questions and hoping for specific answers to those specific questions from specific people.  ;)
Which reminds me, if anyone is thinking of going digging, and it's not for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, a person has now become an archeologist. So remember it's not like digging up potatoes, so one needs: a squared off shovel, a screen, (for panning the dirt through), a soft brush, like a blusher brush, a hard brush, like an old tooth-brush, a trowel. So start where one thinks that pot of gold may be laying, and mark off squares. Then with the shovel gently, gently, scrape a couple of centimeters of earth into the screen and pan it looking for anything you think it may be what you are looking for, and hope you recognize what it is you are looking at. If the shovel or trowel hits something hard, stop. And use your hands to gently, gently, feel around it. If you happen across something you think is what it looks to be, stop, and phone the police. It is long, hard arduous work and painstakingly slow, so have patience and a lot of water and hopefully, a johnny on the spot....... ;)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on August 28, 2009, 10:45:49 PM
Wow! Good work!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 28, 2009, 11:12:07 PM
Excellent work sleuthhound, but I notice that the surveyors maps and books at Service Ontario, don't match up with Google maps?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: sleuthhound on August 28, 2009, 11:55:34 PM
Thank you!

And yes Sleuth, there seem to be discrepancies between the two unfortunately.

I doubt however, in my opinion, that there would be a significant difference, and that the images of that area I posted, retrieved from Google maps, is give or take about right, at least I hope.

Whether it's the house by the number 1, or the one more to the right of the 2, 3 and 4, with the green roof, either way the holes and pathway are in close proximity to both.

Hopefully Braveheart can confirm.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 29, 2009, 12:59:25 AM
I think he rented sleuthhound. I and a wonderful clerk at Service Ontario spent quite a bit of time going over the books and maps with a fine tooth comb. He did not show up in the data base as an owner, but then neither did the address of   :-\..........so?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on August 29, 2009, 03:42:16 AM
Here’s information about the murder of Veronica Kaye in 1980 copied from Yvonne Leroux’s info page.

Note also the similarities between David Norris’s girlfriend at the time with Veronica Kaye.  David Norris had a difficult time understanding people and their emotions and motives.   So he spent a lot of time studying psychology. He was really interested in the theory of ‘projection’. When you are mad at one person, but are unable to take it out on them, so find another person just like them, where it is safer to take it out on. He studied this theory until his death.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copy Cat anniversary killing or coincidence?

Both were picked up in Mississauga

Both were killed in November.

Both were taken North to be killed.

Both were viciously bludgeoned

Both were dragged  after they were killed to the location in which they were found.

Both found face down and  fully clothed.

In neither case was the weapon found at the scene.


Police describing the murder of Yvonne Leroux in The Toronto Star on December 1st 1972.

--?Yvonne,  her head badly battered,  was found lying face down in the middle of the blood soaked frozen road in King township near Jane Street.?

Toronto Sun, Friday October 16th, 1981.  ?Veronica?s badly decomposed body was found face down in a hollow in a wooded arera near Bolton.

Yvonne?s  autopsy as published in the newspaper. ?An autopsy performed by Dr. Hans Sepp found that she had died of multiple skull fractures and brain lacerations.  Police searched the area without success for a blunt instrument.?

--Veronica Kaye Toronto Star article,  ?Was bludgeoned to death in a vicious attack.?
?A week long autopsy at Toronto?s Centre For Forensic Science, conducted by Dr. Hilston Smith, showed Kaye died of ?numerous blows to the head that were the result of a vicious attack.?

From newspaper article regarding Yvonne Leroux,  ?When he found her she was still wearing a blue top coat, white blouse and knee high boots.?   (her pants came down when she was dragged.)

Newspaper article on Veronicas Kaye. ?She was last seen wearing blue jeans, a red nylon ski jacket, red shirt and running shoes, the same cloths found on her decomposed body., the O.P.P said.?

David Norris was moving from Mississauga to Caledon (beside Bolton) at that time. His girlfriend at that time was the spiting image of Veronica. Both were 19.




I have counseling records of David Norris from 1969. I do not have a scanner so can’t post them right now. In them he talks about going up to kill his mothers boy friend.  For no other reason other then he was her boyfriend. So he went there to kill him, but after meeting him decided that he was nice guy so changed his mind. This poor guy never knew how close he came.    The records also describes his love of fires and dangerous situations and how he thrives off it.

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: sleuthhound on August 29, 2009, 04:12:56 PM
Thanks braveheart for all this information.

If you could, whenever you get a chance, post the counseling records for David Norris, that would be greatly appreciated.

The only way to get a better understanding of all this, is to find out as much as possible about David Norris and who he was.

I've been focusing most of my attention on to the 1973 double murder of Donna Stearne and Wendy Tedford (where there is a very slight chance David Norris may actually be responsible for as well) that I haven't had much time to look into David Norris himself nor the cases related to him.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on August 31, 2009, 09:05:41 AM
i don't mean to sound negative...but some of the information she gave you. sounds like information a person can get off google from showing intrest in the case... I do believe most of it i have seen on google a few times before. When you go to google and type in Eric Larsfolks name. this message board and another which also hold alot of information are the first to appear... :-\...sorry was just a thought.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 01, 2009, 06:44:09 PM
Thanks. I did alot of reading on this site before i signed up.

Well when i first heard of these boys missing. I was 15. i think that's what got my attention the most of the case. was the fact that they were my age. When i think of it. The bikes being left in my opinion is a big sign that they did not run away. Even at my age today. I would take my bike if i ran away. I take my bike if i even drive as far as the store at the end of my street.

I had a few thoughts that came to mind. I will post them tomorrow after rereading what was already on this site.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 02, 2009, 02:56:50 PM
Me: Oh……the man…….
Person: the man invited them to a party.
Me: Really!............but there really was no party.
Person: No. Offered to take them to a party
Me: But there was no party………only a party of three.
Person: The boys did not know that.
Me: Is this man a farmer?
Person: no.  
Me: the boys father?
Person: I was going to say that, but didn’t like to. A relative………..drank a lot.


that made me think big time. Being close to their age. even in 2009 as it is. i think i can relate a little bit to how they'd think. and i know if my father invited me to a party. I wouldnt want him there for 2 reasons 1. I couldnt drink with him there, or brag about drinking(since i dont drink) and 2. I couldnt be "anyone" I wanted to while i was there. because if my father was an alcoholic i'd be paranoid as to what he was doing, or trying to fight. Also. Its just not cool to go to a party with your father, mother, etc. when i go partying. i go with cousins and sometimes. very rarely my sister.

but then again. if the father was drunk and abusive. and invited them to a party and they said no. The father could have used force as to say "Do it or i'll make you" or "Do it or you will be punished" as threats of violence to make the boys go to the "Party"




Person: Blue jeans………white T-shirt, with a logo on it…………the brown haired boy.
Me: I don’t know. A  logo?
Person: You know….. like a smiley face………maybe a smiley face………something yellow……..logo.

not to pick it apart a bit. but i have many T's With yellow Logos. There are many Skater logos with yellow on them. and Many Bands.


Me: ……….to tell me what this man looks like?
Person: Tiny. Frail. Small boy, fine boned. Sad. The blond boy.
Me: I don’t know. Can you tell me what this man looks like.
Person: around 5’ 8’’. Walked up a dirt road on a hill………..early 50’s. Heavy set, sloping shoulders, longer hair, black with grey streaks. Mustache, black and grey. A dirty person. Greasy.
Me: (I felt her shudder.) And he invited these two lads to a party? Where did he come from? Why was he walking?
Person: Isolated area. Just walking, wandering.
Me: Out in the middle of nowhere?
Person: yes.


Pretty much describes what the father could look like since the son had a small build. 5'8? shorter man? the son was shorter boy. early 50s? around the age his father would be my parents are close to their 50's now. also. From what i've seen Most Alcoholics tend to be a bit careless about their looks, hygiene, etc. Greasy?, Grey hair? sounds like an alcoholic in his 50's.

Just a few thoughts that came to mind.

Also it makes me REALLY wounder unless he used force would to teens 14 and 15 years old Really go with a drunk abusive man to a party? Especially if one was a father to the boy? My friends and I would all agree. them going with him just doesnt sound right? Especially Larsfolk. I have a friend whos father is an alcoholic and i wouldnt go ANYWHERER with her father. He Scares me bad!. maybe if he showered, cut his hair, shaved and stayed away from the bottle for a bit. I'd think about going somewhere with him. but chances arent likely. and he's not even abusive! I apologize for makeing this so long. i've read these posts for a while before i signed up. so i have many thoughts.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 02, 2009, 06:47:18 PM
another point i want to make. I looked up the websleuths website after you mentioned it. there is someone on there who mentioned 2 spots that look like wholes on the Property Believed to be Norris' A point i wanted to make there(I wanted to sign up for it but i think for now. one site is enough) if that does turn out to be Norris' Property. and Norris' pool. Do you think the 2nd whole that was dug could be connected to the disappearance of his son?...just a random thought. but if he did bury the boys there. and it hid them for so long. why not bury another boy? or reversed? bury one and it worked why not bury 2 more?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 03, 2009, 05:39:48 PM
according to this site

http://forum.canadianparents.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=130061

the frist bit of media attention this case got was 3 years after they were missing...somethings wrong there. a girl went missing 60 some years ago in my town here. and she got media attention for over 20 years after.

Anther point i wanted to make, What if the boys had tryed to run away? angered John Sr. and caused the death of both of them?
maybe had run away to a party which without them knowing became canceld? maybe a party McCormick Sr. had Told the boys they werent allowed to go to? he went looking for them? found them maybe at the spot where the party was ment to be held(going back to the physic's sayings. Park at a campground. maybe campers holding the party?) John sr. finds the boys. drunk. out of anger from them going to the party with out his permission? he goes after them. they run into the woods. he cautches them both and kills them?

when people were asking if he could over power 2 teenage boys. I think he could. both boys were small for their age. At their age i was 5'4" 110-120 pounds. Larsfolk seemed to be bairly 5feet. and only 80 pounds. While McCormick also looked small for his age(I could not find size or weight for him). When you think about it. He probably could over power 2 teen boys at their size.

...and another point. Anyone else notice this one? Tomorrow is Larsfolks 43rd birthday(If I did my math correct)

just some more thoughts.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 03, 2009, 05:44:03 PM
Another thing to add in. What if they were invited to a party maybe by a girl? and John Sr. Said "no you cant go?" because they didn't know her? and if the physic was right. maybe there was no party? maybe she invited them as a joke? maybe to impress her they ran away to the party? and John Sr. Got angry?

i apologize for any spelling errors in my last post. i forgot to hit spell check.

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: sleuthhound on September 05, 2009, 03:07:06 AM
I think the best option is to dig up those two holes I posted pictures of and go from there.

We can speculate all we want, actually checking what's inside those two holes is however our best chance at finding real evidence, something that can actually confirm the boys, or whoever else may be in there - if anybody, were killed, and more than likely by Norris.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 05, 2009, 06:45:03 PM
I will do my best. Since I am no longer in the Caledon Area(i only go there every 2nd summer to visit my great aunt) my best resource is the internet Once I go back to school i will have books, maps and better search sites to refer to.

another thing that came to mind. The girl said the pool was filled in not to long after the boys went missing...is that not to long after they went missing. or after they were reported missing? remember. Norris did have a child of his own go missing. it was 3 years after the boys went missing. but we never know?

sometime in the next week i will have access to the library(I will be back in school Tuesday) so i will be able to look at maps, Books, and better search sites from there. right now google earth tells me there is

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Caledon-Village-Route

Shows a well known bike trail that goes right through Horseshoe Hills Road. and according from the site. its a busy road? Do you think maybe it was busy back in 81? meaning that adds more opportunities...2 missing boys on a busy street?

the site says "Some dirt roads, rolling hills landscape, traffic isn't bad until you get onto Horseshoe Hill Rd. even then it is still good. Start and Stop is at a Macs Milk."

and according to google earth there is a Tailway lot on Horseshoe Hills Road,...I was going to look up Camp grounds and parks also..but my i am a bit busy right now. i'll search it tomorrow.

I apologize for the added work i keep giving you  ;D am just a curious kid with a bunch of questions. hehe

I think this case should be solved before John Jr and Eric both turn 44.
I was in contact last year with a woman on yahoo who claimed to be Eric's sister. She Told me that her family did everything to try to find the boys while John Jr.s Family didnt put much effort into looking. Makes me wounder if his mom put much effort into protecting him?

breaks my heart to look at my niece and think Someone could bring another person into the world and show them pain. she's only 6 months old. but i still wounder. if John Jr. was abused as a teen he probably was as a child.

I use to get this feeling in my tummy. when i saw John Jr.'s photo...that he was still alive. I dunno why. i dont believe he is anymore. after reading up on the case a bit. but before i use to think he just might be...mmm

oh and i found a site a while back that went very in detail on what the boys were wearing when they went missing...it didnt mention anything about a symbol on either boy's shirts...

hehe once again apologize for adding more to your plate.  :-\ really didnt mean to. i just think people missing for as long as these boys...it just doesnt seem fair for them.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 06, 2009, 11:54:52 AM
http://www.missing-u.ca/Images/P20060067_02.jpg

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?s=0322b461a97bd974784bd260de69b031&act=Attach&type=post&id=11075870

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?s=0322b461a97bd974784bd260de69b031&act=Attach&type=post&id=11162487

http://popeye.discash.com/childfind/missing/g/5028se.jpg

http://popeye.discash.com/childfind/missing/g/5028s.jpg

Notice how McCormick doesnt look the same in any of the photos? I have strong feelings they may be a few years apart...

sorry. was searching a bit and came across the photos. the top one if from their school website.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on September 07, 2009, 08:39:51 PM
I went to Forks of the Credit in Caledon  today, to Norris’s old house and met the new owners. They are a lovely young couple who have turned the house into a lovely oasis with plush gardens.
Not at all the house it once was. They were of course taken back by all this. They were very graciosus to me during my visit, but they did ask that all reference to their address and maps  of their house be taken off the internet. I fully understand. I told them that as soon as I got home I would edit the material and have done so here. So I ask anybody else who has also posted their address to please edit it and take it out.   

I do not  want to cause anyone  discomfort and do want to respect peoples  privacy. What I wanted to do is give information so that other’s can make there own decisions. I ask that everybody respect there privacy while they decide what they want to do.

Thank You.
      
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 08, 2009, 12:19:13 PM
Good for you Braveheart!!!!!! :) :) :) :) I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. I have removed the address in consideration of the the owners.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: braveheart on September 08, 2009, 09:46:04 PM
Thank You.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 16, 2009, 07:29:09 AM
.....a big Pat On The Back to you guys, who are still digging into this .... maybe "digging" is the key.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 17, 2009, 09:21:25 PM
Now that I tried 4 times to upload the pics I will try this separately. Here are the newspaper items. This one for September 2, 1981

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 17, 2009, 09:45:28 PM
And here is the other newspaper article. For September 9, 1981
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 18, 2009, 05:14:37 PM
McCormack is described as 5’2”, 80 pounds with a slim build, blond hair and blue eyes wearing blue jeans, a checked shirt and tan work boots.


Any site i've read have said it was Eric wearing the Tan work boots...
like this one:

LLOYD LARSFOLK
DOB:  Sep 4, 1966
Missing:  Aug 24, 1981
Height:  5'0" (152 cm)
Eyes:  Blue   Age Now:  43
Sex:  Male
Weight:  79 lbs (36 kg)
Hair:  Blonde
Missing From:
CALEDON
ONTARIO
Canada
Lloyd was last seen at 07:00 pm on the McCormick farm in Caledon, Ontario, Canada, wearing tan canvas boots, a white/blue long sleeve shirt and blue jeans. He may also be known as "Eric". He has a darkened front tooth and a small brown birthmark on the left side of his waist.


plus they all gave Eric's clothing description. i do believe anywhere i've looked. it was John Jr who had no clothing description...
and the highth is different from the Paper... I would believe the paper before the internet yes. but you pointing out the spelling error makes me wounder a bit...

Larsfolk is described as 5’4”. 95 pounds, blond, blue eyes and there is no description of clothing. Larsfolk, who will be 15 on Friday moved to the Brampton area just one month ago from Fort Erie. McCormack had been back from holiday’s just a week prior to his disappearance. Police say foul play is not suspected and anyone seeing the boys is asked to call OPP Snelgrove at 846-5644.
As we know Snelgrove does not exist anymore, swallowed up in the big jaws of growth. Notice the wrong spelling of McCormick’s last name. And of course it comes across as the OPP putting it down to a ‘yea, there’re missing and?” kinda thing. I also find it strange that there is no clothing description for Eric when he had asked his father if he could go next door to play with John. Did Eric’s father (or mother) not turn around to look at Eric when he was given permission to go. Did one of the parents just give a grunt as an answer. Did the parents not see their son during the day to not know what Eric may have worn when he left?

it said the "the last time they SEEN their son" in most articles... it was the McCormicks who had little to no information. When i was in contact with Eric's sister. she gave me in great Detail everything her parents ever mentioned about him on that night. She even remembered what Eric was wearing...

but another against the web.... some sites say Eric has black hair...tbh i see his hair as more brown/dirty blonde...damn i am to good at pros and cons...

also has anyone noticed how the "person" said one of the boys wore a mark on their shirt...according to your post here. it says that McCormick was wearing a nike check(I asume nike since thats the biggest brand i know of and it has a check)
Person: Blue jeans………white T-shirt, with a logo on it…………the brown haired boy.

brown haired boy? McCormick DEFIANTLY had Very blonde hair....
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 18, 2009, 05:16:00 PM
thank you very much for posting the articles. it is nice to see they were actually in the paper a bit more then i have been seeing.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 18, 2009, 05:49:49 PM
also i found on websleuths a photo of the McCormick farm. Everytime i try to click on it. it wants me to either sign up or sign in. I tryed to sign up it said my e-mail address is banned?(i am not sure why. I havent tryed to sign up before...i've only been to the site a few times) so i tryed to log in to see if i already made an account and didnt remember...no luck... Do you think someone could post a copy of the photo on here?

Thanks a bunch!

I also think it may be because of my age that i cant sign up for the site...I have that problem with a few sites... it sucks by times being this young...
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 18, 2009, 10:02:29 PM
Yes I understand what you are saying Wick. To me Eric's hair leans more on the brown, to brownish red, side. In Summer a person's hair lightens and in winter darkens. Since he lived on a small farm he was probably outside all the time, I can't remember if young boys wore baseball caps back then. What a mess this was, right from the start. The OPP screwed up big time, the writer of the articles, (no name of the journalist on the articles) screwed up, or someone on the OPP force gave the backwards information, or the writer wrote the backwards information but the end result was a screw-up!!!!! It comes across to me they didn't give a shit.
I'll be going back to the microfiche to see when the next article appears and what was written.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 19, 2009, 09:20:51 PM
but in the photo taken just days before he went missing(a month at the most) of him infront of DQ, his hair is brown...
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 20, 2009, 08:57:47 AM
great work Sleuth - hope this pans out for you guys.... it's great how much you are digging.... great work Wick!
WE COULD USE A LOT MORE OF THIS KIND OF ENTHUSIASM IN THESE CASES.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 20, 2009, 09:16:35 AM
thanks =D. Due to a case which just happened in my town(involving my 56 year old cousin missing since Thursday) I will only be on here about three times a week if i can. But i will still be praying for these boys. and i will be doing all i can to keep things open. When i'm not at our water front searching for Kelvin. I'll still try to help out as much as possible and

THATS GREAT NEWS!!! SLEUTH!!! that means we will get these boys found before their 44th birthdays!!! GREAT WORK!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 20, 2009, 09:48:47 AM
omg Wick ....that sounds like there will be no good outcome.  ...still I pray it's possible he's safe.  The rest of us are not aware of the situation.
Keep the faith.  I'm sure you are a good person ... maybe a miracle?  if not, at least keep us informed.  I'm praying for your Kevin as I type. :(
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 20, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
they found him 2hrs ago...he is no longer with us... its hit my uncle pretty hard. it was his nephew closest family member to his age. I was almost certain we'd find him alive. Kelvin was a fairly good swimmer and all. but he had been drinking and fell off his boat into the water. he went out alone.

I will pray that he isnt the only missing person we find before 2010. <3. It is in my prays that we find These two boys, Maddie Mccann and as many others as we can.

R.I.P Kelvin<3.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 20, 2009, 04:31:26 PM
amen to that!  sympathy of all on here to the family.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 20, 2009, 09:30:41 PM
Wick I am so sorry to hear the sad news about your cousin. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family at this sad time.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 20, 2009, 09:40:52 PM
I was going through my file on these two boys and I noticed that I had made a note which was tucked into the back. Both boys were named after their father's. John McCormick Jr, John McCormick Sr. Lloyd Eric Larsfolk and father Lloyd Larsfolk. It seems to be Karmic. I had also noted that all the separate addresses when added up individually came to the number 3. I have no idea what that means. But I do know one thing, Wick you'd better blow the dust off of your hiking boots, set your big stick near the door and pack a case of Deep Woods Off.  ;)
Wick I remember seeing a picture somewhere, I think it was a long time ago, of Eric on his bicycle. Are you able to post the picture of it?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 22, 2009, 01:32:21 PM
thanks<3

and yeah that could be why it wont let me sign up.

i think i know what photo you are talking about. i took a quick look for it but was unsuccessful. i shall look again later today or tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 22, 2009, 02:13:24 PM
Back to the microfiche. Here is the next mention of the boys on November 4, 1981 on page 7. It seems in this case things are happening backwards for me. Curiouser and curiouser, I was given the information over the phone that the boys went in a "North East direction and are in a marsh", then shortly afterward another phone call by the same person who said, "scrap the information I gave you. I will get back to you." (this is not the same person as as 'The Person'). And this newspaper article states that a tracking dog picked up a scent by a pond near the gravel pit. So that clears up the mystery of the pond, because a number of physic's in the past have mentioned pond/marsh. Months back, someone emailed me after I had made an inquiry about these two boys, and due to confidentiality was unable to tell me too much but did state, '....it is a fascinating and puzzling case.' Ain't that the truth! However, now there is a name of a journalist attached to this article, so I will try and track this person down and ask questions. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this person is alive and his marbles are still intact. At least now the last name of the McCormick boy is spelled correct, and the description of the shirt is now different from the previous article. But the boys are still criss-crossed as to who wore what. Not that I think it matters much at this point in time, since the clothes would have pretty much disintegrated through time, unless one of the boys wore a belt with a buckle? And maybe a few buttons and the metal studs on the jeans. I don't know how long running shoes would stand the test of time before degrading, or the tan boots. If the tan boots are work boots made of real leather, then I think there is a chance that they have stood the test of time. So in the meantime, I have sent out numerous e-mails and left messages and now it is a wait and see.

The OPP head honcho still thinks the boys ran away. Now Mr. Head Honcho, do you still think so after 28 years?  :(



Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 22, 2009, 02:59:16 PM
The next article appears December 2, 1981. The search is called off.  :-\ Now Mr Head Honcho thinks something nefarious has happened to the boys. Ya Think! It only took three months to figure that one out.  :-\
Note: The article states the boys were last see playing 'near' a gravel pit 'near' the McCormick farm.
Can journalist's not get their flocking facts straight!!!!! You can tell I'm getting frustrated by bad reporting.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 22, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
Sorry Des, a little late, I've been there scouting out the territory and surrounding territory. It so sucks with, lots and lots and lots of trees.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 22, 2009, 05:29:33 PM
time and nature covers up a lot of crimes and "cover-ups" - pardon the pun.  It's a sad fact that you have to be found dead or be considered most-certain-dead, before you're considered missing or worth searching for.
At least these days, there are volunteer orgs. out there, that go out and search more willingly than police.
I hope this all gets resolved.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 22, 2009, 07:39:48 PM
I found that according to their TOS, they are not excepting registrants without mail addy's from a provider; that is not hotmail, nor yahoo accounts.
They also said that one can view most of the site without joining. So I looked for the picture of the barn you mentioned and found it, but was unable to view it as clicking on the link brought me to the registration page. If you register with your addy from your Internet provider you wouldn't have any problems likely.

I am still a kid, Its my mothers internet not mine. so i dont have one. but i guess i can do without seeing the photos.
I was just curious of the surroundings of the farm. i tryed to find it on google earth.... no luck
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Shwa on September 23, 2009, 10:56:22 AM
"the police probably figured they ran away to Mexico"

Why Mexico?  Why not the US?

We know that McCormick had recently spend some time in Virginia, so there would be relatives and friends there; and we know that Larsfolk recently came from Fort Erie, which is a well known border crossing.

So both boys, even at 15 years old, would have some savvy with crossing the border and in 1981 the restrictions on crossing the border were much, much less than nowadays.  Heck, there wasn't even the Internet as we know it in those days, so news travelled much slower.

McCormick would have every reason in the world not to live with his parents.  Not so sure about Larsfolk, but at 15 perhaps it was an adventure that was hard to refuse.  Besides, moving from one town to another at that age could be traumatic and he hadn't yet gone to school in Caledon and as the summer waned that possibility might have added some stress that threw him over to leaving.  It would not be the first case in the past 50 years where such young kids took off.

I am not saying it is probable that they fled to the US, but it is very possible and ought not to be discounted if there is some evidence pointing that way.  It might be just as useful to dig through Facebook, MySpace or Google results as it is into some ground somewhere in Caledon.  They might be living under a similar assumed name, mother's maiden name, etc.

The article quoted from websleuths, is there an actual newspaper link to that story somewhere? Even though the missing sites say it is a case of non-relative abduction, is that something the police have released or someone elses best guess?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 23, 2009, 12:33:25 PM
QUOTE[Thanks for the laugh lostlinganer, you are right a person has to be more than dead, 28 years worth of dead and then the police probably figured they ran away to Mexico and are living the good life there.]UNQUOTE
Sorry Shwa, I'm shamefaced,  :-[ the line about the Police thinking the boys ran away to Mexico, is my sense of humour. Due to  the first 4 month articles stating the police think they ran away. ::) In future I'll try to keep my sense of humour down to a dull roar so that there is no confusion. My bad.  :o
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Shwa on September 23, 2009, 01:07:02 PM
I didn't mean to slight anyone, just curious about the dismissal of them running away.  I know it is very improbable, but you guys are doing such a great job of casting the wide net, I figured all options should be open.

I am heading up to Erin in a few weeks and will try to scout some of the area, especially the Forks of the Credit.

Did we have any definitive addresses of the farms or Norris' place?  It might be useful to look around the area to get a better sense of the locations...
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 23, 2009, 03:20:11 PM
Shwa makes a good point about the US...but then again. people are saying Larsfolk was very close to his family. Also even if they were angry at their parents. or even hated them(as John Jr may have) Do you think they could go that long without phoning home to mom at that age? when i was 15 i was sent to Caledon to stay with my aunt after a Large argument with my mother. the first month was alright. but once the 2nd and 3rd hit. I phoned my mom every night because i missed her! Larsfolk has no history of abuse that we know of. do you really think he'd go that long without calling his mom?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Shwa on September 24, 2009, 11:21:36 AM
"do you really think he'd go that long without calling his mom?"

If they went through to the States and met foul play there.  Two slight 15 year olds would be rather vulnerable and it could be that they met up with a friend or acquaintence of Larsfolk in Fort Erie that got them across the border.  Once into the States they would have likely wanted to head somewhere safe and known - either the border towns of the US or back to where McCormick's stayed in Virginia.  But once in the States they would be open to all kinds of threats, especially if they were hitchhiking or involved in some other lifestyle choices.

Is this plausible?  Sure it is.  I have a friend who did something similar at the same age, but from Ottawa to Toronto.  Likely a much larger distance than Caledon to Fort Erie.  And my friend was pretty slight in those days.  Het met someone and decided to take off with this guy without telling anyone, even his best friends.

Is it probable?  The evidence is really tough in this case, but when we cast a wide net we have to look for signs and beware of signs with multiple meanings.  For instance, if you are taking off to the US, no need to take your bicycle.  Easy come, easy go for a 15 year old on the run.

See what I mean?

So I think there is more to learn by trying to figure out the relationship those two boys had together.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on September 25, 2009, 07:00:38 PM
thanks SAP but thats not the one i ment. i saw that one. to printscreen(if on a laptop) press the fn buttion(located between the ctrl and windows buttion. then press paste in paint. to do it on a regular computer i think its ctrl and printscreen. either that or ctrl shift,

also i just dont think larsfolk could... the love in his family seems to strong... but then again...any things possible...
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 28, 2009, 10:21:08 AM
I do hope people familar with this keep reading....keep offering what they know or didn't think of before...when this all happened.  these boys deserve to be put in place where they belong in this cycle of life.  
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 29, 2009, 03:26:56 PM
Sleuth; is this "psychic information" this person is claiming ...as in dreams or visions?  or is "the person" claiming memory flashes?  I may have not read closely enough in this thread???
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 29, 2009, 06:44:49 PM
I understand what you are saying SAP. I myself am skeptical about some psychics until whatever it is they have said 'comes to pass'. As I understand it to be, 'The Person' has not been to Canada, the States yes, but not Canada. I asked my friend that question, the one who referred me, and she is the one who told me that. I have never asked 'The Person' anything of a personal nature, on both sides, only what I post is the conversation(s) we have ever had. I write everything down as we are talking to get the wording right. Some things mean different things to other people. Unfortunately I am unable to put the nuances of the conversation in there, because it would be my own impression. Is 'The Person' right? I don't know. But you can bet your sweet booties it is being looked into. As is the other information that comes to light.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on September 30, 2009, 08:53:25 PM
Thanks lostlinganer, personally I think it takes someone to say "enough is enough" step up to the plate and take action whether a person is aged zero or 100 and zero, a person's life is worth more than a blurb in a newspaper, a tut-tut and then forgotten amid busy lives. And to let a murderer think he/she has gotten away with taking another life and to live a life they want to live and maybe commit another crime? I don't think so. That's what everyone is on this forum for, to add information and knowledge and not to let killers go about their daily lives without consequences for their actions.  

Des it seems the psychic's words resonate with a few people. I'm being objective. The time it takes to walk from A to B is 1 hour and 7 minutes. There are two different ways to walk there. It's six of one, half dozen of the other. By car 9 minutes. I will write that question down, in regards to how far they walked for next time. From my understanding of speaking with "The Person" the man wasn't drunk, but a "drunk" meaning he drank a lot but wasn't at that time. I will ask for clarity in that. However, if he was headed north on the road it would bring him into the small town where there was a bar located there, I forget the name of the bar. I'll ask a friend again. I don't know if there was a LCBO/beer store there? But if he was heading in that direction, why take the long way and not go straight up the road? Unless he was just wandering. I don't know.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 01, 2009, 02:05:49 PM
There is one thing I would like to mention. With all the research I do on a volunteer bases in regards to missing/murdered children for Jared's law, website. There is a consistency that I have noticed. About 25% of children under the age of 13, a couple of 16 year olds,  have premonitions/foresee their upcoming demise/kidnapping. I have discussed this at length with my long time friend who volunteered on the Freeway Murder killer, a man who kidnapped and murdered 21 children in California. The man's 15th victim tape-recorded his own death through a song a few weeks before he was killed. With many more of these young boys foreseeing their own deaths. The young girl who was kidnapped in California wrote a poem while sitting up at the coffee-table about people who are kidnapped aren't always killed. When questioned about the poem by her mother the little girl replied "Sometimes they are kept behind steel doors."  A week later she was kidnapped never to be seen again. Another little girl who was kidnapped had been having nightmares for two months, which really scared her, before she disappeared. And another little 3 year old had drawn a picture and when asked by her mom what it was, the little girl replied. "the bogyman". And four days later, she was gone. I'm wondering if either Eric or John had a premonition? It's worth asking about.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on October 02, 2009, 05:31:16 PM
i know this is a lame question. but why would a random man on the street walk off with two teenage boys?
there had to be a reason. a reason why he chose them, why he took them....
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 02, 2009, 11:39:39 PM
Hey Wick, it's not a lame question. I don't know. I don't even know if it was a man who worked at a camp who lived in a tent and had a dog who is responsible. I'm open to collecting information from all avenues and being open minded.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on October 03, 2009, 08:26:38 AM
Quote
i know this is a lame question. but why would a random man on the street walk off with two teenage boys?
there had to be a reason. a reason why he chose them, why he took them....
seems logical to think if such a man was in the area ....working a camp ground....that he may also have come across these boys more than once....maybe had previous opportunity to make them feel he was open and trustworthy enough to go off on a sudden party with.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on October 04, 2009, 05:12:39 PM
I know this is totally unrelated to the case. but its ontopic of what is being spoke of.

My niece is 8 months old and the other day i made a video of her because she was saying what i thought was "ba, ma Ma ma ba" but we realize now listening its "bye, man, man, man, bye" in the video there is a white fuzz on the screen... The owner of the houses on our block(we rent) died the day after the video was made. She is still saying it every now and then. my mother thinks she knew the owner was going to die...

Do you think these boys saw their death? Were either Depressed? Worried? McCormick was abused?...was he scared of men? did he show a stronger fear of them before he went missing?

What about Larsfolk? did he fear anything unusual?

this would be so much easier if we had someone who knew them to ask.





Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 11, 2009, 01:25:50 AM
Remember David Snow, a very, very bad man? Who lived in the area. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
He grew up in Orangeville, (Caledon) worked in the antique business and broke into and lived in empty cottage's on The Grange, a road down from where the boys lived.

 

http://hazel8500.wordpress.com/2006/09/04/cottage-killer/

http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2006/0831/Columns/031.html

An excerpt; QUOTE[n reality, the loner described by CTV as having been dubbed "The Cottage Killer," was dubbed "The House Hermit" before his identity was known, and had vanished in the fall of 1992 after apparently taking the life of his first victim, Etobicoke shop owner Carolyn Case.

All we really know is that after Ms. Case's car was found near Highway 10 in Caledon, David Snow went to various locations to the north an east, holing up in empty cottages and at one point kidnapping and robbing a Penetanguishene couple, before picking the weekend retreat of Ian and Nancy Blackburn on Caledon's Grange Sideroad, where he likely killed either the husband or wife. (We do know that he didn't drive, yet their bodies were in the trunk of their car when it was found in the driveway of their Toronto home.)

After the Blackburn killings he decided to head west, and it was about three months later that he began kidnapping anew and almost killed one of his three female victims, at least one of whom was repeatedly raped]QUOTE

And an excerpt from the book Alison Shaw wrote;

A Friend of the Family: The True Story of David Snow, the Cottage Killer

by Alison Shaw

David Snow grew up in Orangeville, Ontario, a rural area north of Toronto, and in the early 1990s – before the suspicions, charges, and convictions – he dealt antiques. Alison Shaw, who moved to Orangeville with her husband Darris to do art, and live simply, worked out of Snow’s store, had him over to the farmhouse, and let him babysit her toddler daughter. Still, she didn’t like his attitudes about women. He had rotten teeth, serious body odour, and something about him gave her the creeps. The Shaws’ testimonies later helped secure dangerous offender classification for Snow in B.C. (where he kidnapped and raped), and his first degree murder convictions in Ontario.

Snow was the town eccentric, just a typical country guy; his grim silences and unorthodox personal hygiene were rationalized as anti-urban nonconformity. Shaw regrets how her intuition about Snow was dismissed by Darris, that she repeatedly faced a small community’s denial of Snow’s peculiarities. A Friend of the Family, Shaw suggests, disperses the regret – and guilt – she felt when the crimes Snow committed became public.

Illogically, husband Darris is also Shaw’s target. In Ontario, Darris hung out with Snow; they started a business scouting demo houses to strip, shared many beers; Darris defended Snow against Alison’s criticisms. His standard “We’re not in Toronto now” excuse for Snow’s extremes demeaned his wife’s concerns. At a Snow hearing in B.C., Darris attempted pleasantries with him despite the gruesome evidence. Shaw sees such fraternity as reprehensible and as a form of complicity on the part of her soon-to-be-ex-husband.

and the rest of the story    http://www.quillandquire.com/reviews/review.cfm?review_id=114
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Shwa on October 12, 2009, 08:58:24 AM
How old would Snow have been in 1981?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: D1 on October 13, 2009, 12:42:13 AM
Re:
Quote
He grew up in Orangeville, (Caledon) worked in the antique business and broke into and lived in empty cottage's on The Grange, a road down from where the boys lived.

Sometimes just down the road means a block or two, sometimes it's twenty miles or so. This is a strange connection though. Snow is one of the few who got the dangerous offender designation and at a time when it was hardly ever granted.

Women were his main prey but that doesn't mean anything when dealing with someone this nuts. Snow spent a period of time in Kelowna B.C. on his way to Vancouver where he was eventually arrested. He was around for about a month, women were being raped and molested on the way home from the bars and pubs that summer..Bouncers were quietly warning single women to be extra cautious..I saw him at the time, he was in his own world, completely mesmorized with just watching women at that time..

Two young boys at an earlier time? He was nuts enough! How far away did he live, walking distance?
 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 13, 2009, 01:12:30 AM
I've just watched an on-line video documentary on David Snow. Interesting, however he started his break-in's into empty cottages in 1991 in Caledon and he went downhill after that, meaning in the mental area. Interestingly enough when the police searched his house in Orangeville the house was filled with antiques, car parts, and porn and he lived up in the attic, sleeping on a mattress on the floor and a frying pan near by to cook. One item I will mention in my searches on this creep when he was found in Vancouver:

He (Peter Cross) found David Snow bending over and twisting “something” around the neck of an almost nude and apparently lifeless woman. The woman was Dalia Gelineau.

    “My first reaction was that she was dead and that he had just killed her,” said Cross.

    Cross tackled Snow and was handcuffing the fugitive when the senior officer told Woodlock, “There is a lady back there with a bag on her head. Run back.”

    Woodlock found the loaded gun Snow had fumbled.

    “I (John Woodlock) saw Dalia lying there, bound, pretty graphically, with a bag over her head,” said Woodlock.

    She was on her right side, in an almost fetal position.

    “I thought she was dead, so I rolled her over,” said Woodlock.

    Woodlock removed the bag and released a gag that had bound Gelineau’s mouth. He pulled out a blood-soaked slip that was stuffed into her mouth. She groaned.

and:

    Snow gagged Gelineau with her slip, put a plastic bag over her head and tightened a wire around her neck. A North Vancouver Mountie found Snow standing over a bound and near unconscious Gelineau.

    North Vancouver provincial court Judge Jerome Paradis decided that Snow didn’t intend to murder Gelineau and found him not guilty. The verdict enraged people, not the least of whom was Gelineau, an eloquent, brave grandmother.

    Paradis later redeemed himself by designating Snow a dangerous offender. That means Snow has an indefinite prison sentence.

Which makes me think that Judges do not live in reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because Snow's MO were women, I have dropped him to the bottom of the suspect list.
For those wanting to see a very well detailed documentary on this creep here is the link. It is long but interesting with dates and address's and the actual people involved.


http://www.factualtv.com/videos/david-snow/1
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: D1 on October 13, 2009, 12:12:35 PM
Snow did kill the husband of the woman too. Why I mentioned the Kelowna time period was because of an incident I saw involving Snow. In the middle of a busy downtown Kelowna restaurant a man said something to Snow that triggered a strange reaction. Snow got up from his seat, his face twitching uncontrollably in what looked like a near murderous rage. He was able to control himself enough to just get out the door, leaving without even paying his bill. I have no doubt more would have happened had it not been in such a busy public place. The rage was directed at a male not a female. But later that night a woman was raped a few blocks away in city park..

But I agree, not his usual MO but interesting that he was right around that area..Sexual motivation isn't always the motive for murder or disappearances. Coincidental circumstance sometimes comes into play.
 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 15, 2009, 10:40:21 PM
Yes I understand what you mean D1. There is an old saying, life is stranger than fiction. Ain't that the truth.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on October 22, 2009, 08:00:57 AM
Sleuth; are you maybe thinking "simple hit and run"....maybe a drunk or two in a truck or "high" vehicle.  ....then once it was done, the witness needed to be eliminated.  Then just a matter of throwing them in the back of this truck? and dumping or burying them where they'd never be found.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on October 22, 2009, 11:31:50 AM
maybe somebody drunk and disgruntled .... maybe somebody who forbid the boys to get that old vehicle running, much less, drive it around.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 22, 2009, 11:39:22 AM
I know where you are headed with this one Lost, and I'm 99% certain the answer is no. When Police investigate a crime of this nature, they look at the family, relatives, neighbours, and then strangers. They widen their scope. 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: kimmccormick on October 22, 2009, 04:21:24 PM
Hi

I'm Kim Mccormick the daughter of John Sr. and the sister of John Jr.
I would just like to clarify a few facts that are incorrect.
1.  John Jr. was never sent to hospital by John Sr.
2.  Joyce Mccormick was working the eving that John Jr. went missing
3.  There were no footprints found in the gravel pit but the search dogs had found a scent
4.  John Jr. room stayed intacted for years.
5.  John Sr. cause of death was never determined - he had several medical conditions besides alcoholism
6.  After John Sr. death I (KIM) inherited the property in 1987 and lived there for many years.
7.  The suspect who is now deceased is not John Sr.
8.  There had been no open holes on the property. The inground pool had been installed at least six years previous to the boys disappearance.

John Jr. was very much loved by his family and is sadly missed. He is still very much alive in our thoughts and prayers.
We have worked with the police and many other outside sources to try and find the boys. We will not give up helping in the search for them.

Kim
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: kimmccormick on October 22, 2009, 04:40:04 PM
I don't know Lost. I will clarify some misconceptions found on the internet. The boys were last seen at 5:00 PM working on the old black van in the driveway. The sister was driven to the babysitter's. She returned at 9:00 PM and went looking for the boys. The black van was found abandoned in the field behind the house, up on a jack with the headlights on and a tool lying under the van. Obviously the boys were trying the van out to see how it worked when it broke down, and then were trying to fix it when someone happened/came along. Remember this is a 150 acre farm.

Hi

I will clarify this for you, I am the sister and was there. I saw the boys at about 6pm, they were going to drive the black Chevy around the property. My father drove me to the babysitters. When I was driven home at 9pm the black field car was no where to be seen (my mother and I later found it broken down half way to the gravel pit). My brother's van was parked in the driveway with a safety light on underneath it. Eric's bike was leaning up against the garage. The farm was only 100 acres.


Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Chris on October 22, 2009, 05:06:02 PM
Thanks Kim... I updated the first post in this tread with that new information.

I am very sorry about your brother. i do hope this mystery can be solved.

Do you have a theory as to what happened? Thanks

Chris
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on October 22, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
We all share your loss Kim.  We believe these boys deserve to be found and given a proper burial.  It's as though we get to know the victims of these cases, thus I for one, go to sleep nightly with a prayer for many in my heart.  I know how it feels to lose someone you love and his killer/s roaming free.  I hope you get a break in this Kim, and get to find your brother.
Don't mind us all brainstorming on here; we seldom think a loved one could be reading.  So whatever comes out of us only reflects our pain and frustration over the missing and murdered.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 22, 2009, 09:24:03 PM
Thanks for posting and clearing up many misconceptions Kim. Our prayers are with you and hope the boys are brought home soon.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 28, 2009, 11:33:55 AM
The answer is yes, I'm still at it. To clarify your question, it's not the perp I'm searching for, but where the boys are so that they can be returned home. It's time for them to come home. But, if I find anything out, along the way, that can connect the dots all the better.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 08, 2009, 09:58:53 PM
I'm still on the trail. Over the last week I became confused over all the information I was receiving from various sources, due to the different conflicting information, which threw me off. Or so I thought was conflicting. I kept saying to myself, how can this be? It can't be. So I sat down with all the information, set aside what was irrelevant and put the pieces in their proper alignment. And still it didn't add up, feel or look right. There was something that just kept bothering me. So I took a look at it from a different angle, and the penny dropped. It was staring me in the face the whole time, and I didn't even see it until now. The boys are not together. Now two different area's have been narrowed down and within the next two weeks it will be narrowed down even further. Moving forward!!!! :) :) :) :) :) 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on November 09, 2009, 09:03:54 AM
keep it up Sleuth... like Nancy (Adrian) used to say, keep those spidy powers tuned in!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 09, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Thank you from the bottom of my heart Lost for your support.  :) It humbles me when so many strangers have given of themselves in their help, encouragement and support to bring these two boys back to where they belong. It proves that there are a lot of wonderful people with great hearts out there, which helps to tip the scales against evil perpetrated against others. I salute you all!

In recognition that family member(s) of the two boys and their friends read this thread, I'm being sensitive on their behalf on what I post on the events which unfolded that Monday evening so long ago. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Mother Nature is kind enough not to let the snow fly for a while yet.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 17, 2009, 09:56:11 PM
Here is the Toronto Star blurb from October 1 1985.

The Headline states, 'Parents of teens missing 4 years still hoping sons will be found'

Huh!?  :o                 Someone can not do simple arithmetic.

Every time I find a blurb about these young lads, there are mistakes in the articles. What is up with that?

However this article deals with eight psychic's and out of the eight, only one saw the boys as demised, the other seven saw them as still alive. 

 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 17, 2009, 10:22:58 PM
And this article from the Sunday Star May 18, 1986 depicts the lads age enhanced.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on November 22, 2009, 09:53:46 AM
I know this has been said quite a bit. but it bothers me badly about this case. Why is there so little information on the boys on the internet? this site has the most information that i have seen. Also, Almost every other site out there has false information. I really dont see how that can be. So many people mixing up? I do believe in order to solve a case. You need to have your facts correct and understandable.

Sleuth, Still searching for the photo of Larsfolk on his bike.

Also. Anyone know if there is a post set up here for Byron Carr? recently the police here in PEI reopened his case. and until they did. Very Few people from PEI that are under 40 years old knew there was even a cold case in PEI. I am very interested in it. i have looked a little bit. but i am slowly still trying to figure this site out. He was a Teacher at my school.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 22, 2009, 12:31:29 PM
Welcome back Wick!  :) Lost has started a thread for Byron Carr under his name. Good to see this cold case re-opened.
Wick check out the leaps and bounds forward under the Christine Jessop thread!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on November 28, 2009, 07:59:45 PM
thanks a bunch for the info!...who is Christine Jessop?

I see this case is still having an amazing move forward!

due to us no longer having internet at home, my time on here wont be more then weekends.

Any place where it says the actual name of the suspect in this case? the one who died?
also is there any other boys around their age who went missing around that time? who could have been linked? like Norris' son?(though i do believe the Norris subject was dropped for a bit. and the Snow one started up).
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 AM
Hey wick, Norris and Snow have been crossed off the list.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on December 02, 2009, 02:21:58 PM
RIP John and Eric  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on January 18, 2010, 12:07:30 AM
Yes I know, a fair number of what, what!? I have two words..........Tunnel Vision.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Friend of Eric on June 05, 2010, 10:20:50 AM
Dear Unsolved Canada,

I am a friend of Eric Larsfolk's and I knew him in Fort Erie.  I have always kept Eric alive in my thoughts as I too believe that he needs to be found.  If any of his family are monitoring this website, I hope it is comforting for you to know that others such as myself (Scott D. - RIP) never forgot him.  I would like to thank those on the post for continuing to 'brainstorm' about the disappearance of Eric and John McCormick Jr.

I have read the entire post on this thread and I see that at times seemingly unrelated facts are discussed at length.  I do not believe that I possess any facts relevant to the case but if by some miracle I do, I am sharing what I know here. 

From July 1st to 14th Eric was at a National Boy Scout Jamboree in Kannanaskis Alberta.  During this time, Eric visited a friend (Brian M.) who had moved to Calgary from Alberta.  I remember visiting the Larsfolk farm once in the summer of '81.  I remember the house being somewhat close to the road with a large barn set back from the house at the end of the driveway.  Eric's room and window faced the driveway.  I remember he used to listen to The Cars all of the time - random thought.

I remember Eric being very possessive of his wallet.  He used to carry a condom in it (It was cool at that age to say you did this, even though no one had any need to use one)  I remember him always being concerned his mother was going to find it.  I can't imagine Eric running away.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on June 05, 2010, 11:35:13 AM
Welcome Friend of Eric! And thank you for posting your thoughts on Eric. These two boys should never, ever be forgotten. Eric and John Jr. made a positive difference in other people's life's during their short time on this earth. 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Friend of Eric on June 08, 2010, 12:18:34 PM
Desespere,

I wish I knew something concrete that I could post.  I always hoped that the area would be developed and that an excavation for a subdivision would turn up something.  I used to think that he ran away to Calgary, but I always knew it was wishful thinking.

It sounds like the consensus is that their remains are close by where they went missing and where they lived.  Maybe someday technology will advance to the point where something can be detected.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on June 09, 2010, 03:08:34 PM
Des; I think these investigators need to go back to square one (which I doubt will happen).  I think they need to start looking at who was doing "land fill" work at the time.... who could use heavy equipment and/or front end loaders ..... also what old abandoned wells were in the area at the time...and quickly filled in.  This is hard to notice in rural areas ... I came from a rural area.  Only those who lived on properties for years know where all the old wells were. .... and farm properties often had a few.    It would be easy to throw two small bodies in an old well...even a shallow well, and just throw in some old pieces of furniture or old car parts etc.  .........it wasn't even questioned back then.... just considered as people trying to fill up a dangerous old well.
The people who lived in the immediate area at the time could figure out where those boys bodies are (imho).... doesn't take a whole lot of detective work ....just takes looking at the whole thing in the last few days after the boys disappeared.  ....and I mean looking with "open eyes".  It would be stupid to think "anyone" was above doing this.  It takes a pair of fresh eyes from that neighborhood, going back to that exact time, and viewing everyone.... I mean everyone .... as capable to committing this double murder.  also bear in mind that back then, people in rural areas and farm communities used a "lot of lime" to speed the decomposition of the contents of  "out-door toilets dug 6ft. deep" - and also manure and compost piles.  ....even consider someone being way too helpful in offering to cover in an old sink-hole or help fill in a swampy area, or backfill land for someone.  I believe those boy's bodies are real close to where they died.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on July 05, 2010, 08:33:05 AM
Did anyone read about the retired OPP officer that was found guilty on 28 June 2010 of 19 sexual assault charges against 10 teenage male victims dating back to the 70's?

The trial was held in Orangeville as the offences took place in the Caledon/Snelgrove/Bolton area while he was posted to the Snelgrove (now Caledon) detachment.  One of the victims is now an OPP officer and testified.  The accused was also posted to Downsview, Islington (I'm guessing part of Toronto), Minaki and Coboconk detachments.  He retired from Coboconk in 1997 and lives in Fenelon Falls.

He knew all of these particular victims and had either a friendship with or was an aquaintance of the parents.  He assaulted many while on duty in his police cruiser.  The lead detective did not venture to Northern Ontario (Minaki/Kenora) which was a huge disappointment to many - he was likely to find more victims.  Which is likely why he didn't go there - the detective testified it was difficult prosecuting a fellow officer.

Just thought I would ask.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on July 05, 2010, 02:30:38 PM
I'm guess Woodland, we won't find anything about that particular incident online.  Of course I will try, but If you have the story anywhere, it would be great to post it.  A perp is a perp...even if he's a cop or mountie.   and especially .... we want a pic.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on July 05, 2010, 03:03:39 PM
Robert Lewis is all over the news.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on July 05, 2010, 04:47:44 PM
Thanks Wood; I'll look that stuff up!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: itdoesntmatter on July 06, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
I don't think these boys went missing as a result of ONE person being responsible.  Two teenage boys and one adult just doesn't work for me unless the perp had a gun.  Just one of these boys would have been a handful for one adult let alone two boys and one adult.  I've seen people fight for their lives and they don't just let it happen...they fight like hell if they can.

The boys were working on a car.  It was found half way to the gravel pit broken down.  They were working on it and planning on a test run that night.  If I put myself in the shoes of 2 boys that are messing around with cars for the night and while taking one for a run, it breaks down, are you going to just leave the car there?  A few things could have happened from there.  Did they go looking for someone to help them tow it back?  Did they head home for tools to fix it?  Were they fixing it and someone (rather, more than one person) stopped to offer help? I just don't buy that they would just leave it there though.

I think that the problem with searches is that it doesn't take a perp all that long to get out of the area and away from any search....what?  and hour?  I'm inclined to think that, where missing and never found persons are concerned, the perp(s) has taken them immediately out of the area and this is why not even a trace is found.  "it's like they just vanished".  I see those words on many threads where the person has never been found.

The police, in this case, had a suspect but that's just it, the person was only a suspect.  Police always have suspects but it doesn't mean that they are right.  I'm sure that the whole family was suspect at one point as is the case when a family member goes missing.  Here again though, if it was just one person that was suspect, I don't buy it.

I don't believe for one second that these boys ran away.  They were messing around with cars.  Why put the effort in if you're just planning on leaving.  One of the boys didn't seem to have a reason to leave and not calling home at all over all of these years is a bit extreme.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: itdoesntmatter on July 06, 2010, 12:49:46 PM
Just adding on.

The footprints in the gravel pit....couldn't they have just as easily been there from the day before?  I've seen scent dogs in action.  The scent could have been around for a few days and not necessarily from just that night.

I don't believe for one moment that the father had anything to do with it.  How is someone drunk going to handle 2 teenage boys?  One, his own son might freeze from previous experiences but the other boy sure wouldn't have.

I think there's 2 perps here.  I think they saw the boys and stopped to offer help.  I think that their intent was to take the boys.  I think that the boys were taken out of the area within an hour.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on July 06, 2010, 01:22:36 PM
An OPP officer, posted to the area, who was sexually molesting teenage boys, has a gun.

A teen of either gender could/would be confused and not know what to do if confronted by a police officer who is making an unreasonable demand.  Confusion is what happened in this case of a Robert Lewis victim - he brought the victim home after molesting him in his cruiser (he handcuffed the boy) and sat down to watch a hockey game with the father.  Lewis was still on duty.  The boy did not know what to do or say, so never said anything for years.  But he did suffer, and still is.

I have no idea who is responsible for the disappearance of these 2 boys, but find it difficult to write Lewis off unless it is shown he was not in the area that night.  Many people are missing from another area Lewis was posted to - the OPP are most certainly aware of this.  What will they do now?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: itdoesntmatter on July 06, 2010, 02:41:21 PM
I wouldn't rule Lewis out either.  The only thing that makes me think different with him is that he clearly has a history of letting his victims go.  That is an arrogant person that isn't too worried about getting caught. Most likely because he was a cop.  I don't feel it's his MO to kill them.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on July 06, 2010, 04:19:37 PM
Lewis now has a documented history of molesting the teenage boys of people he had a friendship or was aquainted with.  They were there and somewhat available to him, he could not very well dispose of all of them without being noticed as the common denominator.

My concern now is the teens/young men whose parents he didn't know, and they didn't know him.

It's not very feasible, with in imo what little is known about child predators, that he went to Minaki where he did not have family or former friends (documented at trial) and did not molest any boys/young men.  A northern posting consisting of native policing was what he aspired to when he joined the OPP in 1967 (documented at trial).  No charges have been laid against him for the other areas he was posted to - and there is alot of real estate between Minaki and Caledon/Islington/Downsview.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on August 13, 2010, 04:22:46 PM
I learned something interesting today from an editor at MyKawartha Newspaper who has been following the Robert Lewis case.  I initially commented on the good reporting they have done with the Lewis case, and introduced the idea of askig the OPP about his whereabouts on 24 August 1981, since he had been posted to Caledon.

The following is from an e-mail received today - I use quotes to highlight actual text.  I replied with 'trust I can post this where it can be seen by many' but received no response, so here goes.

'A reporter in our Caledon office spoke to police and they said they looked into it and couldn't put him definitively in a criminal setting'.

This response speaks volumes to me.  I would have expected more like 'Robert Lewis was not in Caledon on 24 August 1981', or 'we cannot determine where Robert Lewis was on 24 August 1981'.

So let's get back to the question - where was Robert Lewis on 24 August 1981?  Who cares what 'setting' the sob was in, was he in Caledon or not?

Just in case this idea appeals to anyone, attached is the missing persons item for both Erik and John.  One can click 'resolve' at the bottom of the second page (click details) and e-mail the OPP and ask the question 'where was OPP Officer Robert Lewis on 24 August 1981'?  I have done this already, hope more of you will join me.  You do not have to do this through the site of course, you can go directly to the site since a name and phone number is required.  They are friendly in their responses - and they do respond.

It's worth noting that during trial testimony, the lead investigator agreed he did not do enough to find more victims of Lewis or other crimes he may have committed.



http://www.missing-u.ca/MPs.aspx


http://www.missing-u.ca/MPs.aspx
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 20, 2010, 08:41:29 PM
Lewis took the oath of a Police Officer in 1967. In 1967 he was stationed in Downsview until 1969. From there he was stationed in Caledon, then Snelgrove, from 1969 to 1976. From Caledon he asked for, and received his request to transfer to Minaki in 1976. From there he was transferred to Islington from 1976 to 1978 and then on to Coboconk in 1978 where he stayed until he retired in 1997. 
From what I understand, this is what a poster is saying; That for some unknown reason sometime on Monday, August 24th, 1981, Lewis got into his car in Cboconk and drove 161 Km for 2 hours and 37 minutes, at normal driving speed, to the McCormick farm to kill 2 boys? Dispose of the bodies and then do the return drive?  Does this even make common sense? Does it?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on August 21, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
Attached is a Toronto Star article from 6 March 2007, regarding the lawsuit against Lewis by one of his victims.

It states that in 1981 (one has to do the math from info in the article to figure out that the victim was 16 in 1981) Lewis was in Tara, west of Owen Sound, visiting the victims family farm.  If Lewis was stationed in Coboconk then, I'm going with that is correct, then it is a much farther drive than Caledon.  Coboconk to Caledon would take 2 or more hours - Caledon to Tara would be another 2 or more.

This is one of the articles that got me to thinking that Lewis could have been in Caledon on 24 August 1981.  I'm quite shocked that the police did not rule Lewis out in their answer to a direct question on where Lewis was the day these boys disappeared.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/188583
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on August 21, 2010, 07:11:38 PM
The Lindsay Daily Post also had some articles, recently, on Robert Lewis from Fenelon Falls.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on August 22, 2010, 11:27:36 AM
I don't think these boys went missing as a result of ONE person being responsible.  Two teenage boys and one adult just doesn't work for me unless the perp had a gun.  Just one of these boys would have been a handful for one adult let alone two boys and one adult.  I've seen people fight for their lives and they don't just let it happen...they fight like hell if they can.

you have to remember when you say this, Both boys were small for their age, not saying they werent strong, but they were small for their age which would give them a dis advantage. Also if the boys were caught off guard, knocking one out in one hit, would leave just the other boy to fend for himself, meaning it would be easier to get him to.


I don't believe for one moment that the father had anything to do with it.  How is someone drunk going to handle 2 teenage boys?  One, his own son might freeze from previous experiences but the other boy sure wouldn't have.

This i honestly don't believe in, The boy would not have fought back to his friends father. I'm not far off from the boys age myself, and i know the chances in the boy fighting back against his friends dad are small. you know that awkward feeling you get when your friends are being yelled at by their parents, Imagen that only worse when their parents would be beating on them. think about it, by the time the boy realized what was going on after the shock of what he saw, i'd say he could have john dead, meaning it would leave Eric as an easier target. Also if it was the dad, or any man for that matter, if he started to beat on one of the boys and the other stepped in, who says he didn't manage to take one kid out in just one hit?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on August 22, 2010, 11:32:27 AM
Also i would like to post this as a reminder, we are only 2 days away from the date the boys went missing on 29 years ago(will be 29 years) and only 2 weeks away from Eric's birthday.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on August 22, 2010, 02:44:22 PM
Very logical points Wick.  I remember when I was that age, the only people I feared more than my own parents (mind you, mine were pretty mild unless I did wrong) was another kids parents.  God Bless their little souls.  There is a part of me that clings to "maybe they were abducted by a few from another area.... group or cult.... maybe they are alive and we will hear of them some day."  Yet again, that could have been an even worse fate.   :'(
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 06, 2010, 07:12:11 AM
Hello.  I have lived in Fort Erie my whole life and I went to highschool with Eric (not best friends, but hung together once in a while) until he moved away.  I have often wondered what ever really happened to him.  If I stop and think, I can still to this day remember the sound of his voice.  Eric, to me, as i remember back, seemed like a pretty normal kid for his age, although I always got the sense that his home life wasn't great.  I remember his families greenhouse very well, in fact I drive by the property almost every day, which has since been torn down and has been a vacant field ever since.  I have been reading the majority of the posts on Eric and John and thinks its just amazing that there are people out there that refuse to let this go.  I personally don't believe Eric was the kind of person who would run away but I guess if your in a situation that you really are not happy with, people start to think different. By reading all the facts that I have read so far, it sounds like an abduction was maybe the case. Eric had an older brother named Dave.  Has anyone ever questioned him? I don't remember if he moved away with the family or not.  I know he is on Facebook and lives in Kelowna, BC and in fact has friends in common with myself.  He is 2 years older than Eric would have been.  I have been kind of reluctant to ask him myself about anything he may remember for fear of stirring up bad memories for him.  I will contact some of our mutual friends (who were all friends of Eric) to see if he has made any mention of Eric. If he has anything to offer, I will post.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 06, 2010, 07:33:04 AM
Just looking through Facebook and found out something rather interesting to me.  Going to Dave Larsfolks homepage has his hometown listed as Kelown,BC and his current city has Kelowna,BC.  On his friends list is "Erik David Larsfolk" (no clear pic on page).  Erik's hometown is listed as Victoria, BC and current town Kelowna, BC. On Erik's friends list are 2 mutual friends with myself who I know very well.  Yes, Erik does not have Fort Erie listed as his hometown, but what is interesting is that on his list of "Likes" is the Canadian Motor Speedway which is a proposed racetrack to be located here in Fort Erie (pop'n 30,000).  Why would this Erik have this on his facebook unless he has some personal ties with Fort Erie? Rather interesting I'd say.  Is it possible that Erik (and John) did in fact run away and after all these years has found himself with his brother? If a person wanted to erase all traces of his past would you try to put certain details to rest and modify his name maybe?  What do you guys think?  I think I'm shaking a bit as I type this.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 06, 2010, 07:39:04 AM
Just got to thinking.  By the profile pic on Erik's page, it is possible that this person is old enough to be Dave's son-named after brother Erik?  But still, why would he have the Canadian Motor Speedway in Fort Erie listed as a like. I have sent a friend request just to see.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 06, 2010, 07:55:05 AM
Great work Bobbo..... things are looking up.  I for one cannot get over the disappearance of those two boys.  If I lived in that area, I would be roaming, digging, inquiring .... I would hope someone would do the same for me if I disappeared.  It is soooo good you joined us!  Welcome
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 06, 2010, 08:07:20 AM
Well, doing a little more digging, I was able to view Dave's pics and after going thru them all, I saw a straight on pic of "Erik David Larsfolk" and it is definitly not the Erik were looking for.  It is obviously Dave's son named after his brother.   Rather discouraging.   I'm going to see if Dave himself remembers anything.  One would think that Erik, if alive, would find his way to his brother.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 06, 2010, 08:09:47 AM
Bobbo; maybe you could ask him what he remembers of John's life as well.  It would be safe to assume he might know more than most people because Eric and John became serious buds at the time.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Concerned on September 06, 2010, 08:25:00 AM
Nice work Bobbo, welcome to the site. I just wanted to point out, as well, that the Erick Larsfolk that went missing has the full name of "Lloyd Erik Larsfolk" and the younger version is "Erik David Larsfolk."  Makes me think that maybe the name Erik has been kept in the family lineage.

I hope Erik's brother David will come to know that those on this site care. Most of us long for closure on our own case, and only hope we can be of assistance to others who may need the same. As you, yourself, are aware when a person goes missing it affects a whole community. And, we also hope that those responsible come to justice and off the streets so that the crimes don't repeat themselves on others. It is always nice when family and friends can join us.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 06, 2010, 01:12:40 PM
Erik hated the name Lloyd and so became known as Erik Larsfolk. (Lloyd wouldn't have been a cool name in the 80's)  His grade nine year book pic is listed as Erik as well.  I am going to message Dave now to see if he is comfortable talking about this.  He may talk to me if he knows that I was friends with Erik .  I did get a message back from one our mutual friends this morning and she knows Dave very well.  All she was able to tell me so far is that he has mentioned there are a couple of leads right now but nothing concrete as of yet, and confirmation that he did indeed name his son after is brother.  The more I think about this case the more I try to put myself in the shoes of a couple of 14yr old boys.  I wouldn't think that 2 boys would go with anyone other than perhaps a family member.  This is definitely a case that needs closure to it.  Are the other members on this discussion from Caledon?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 11, 2010, 08:35:26 AM
  I sent a Facebook message a few days ago to Eriks older brother Dave asking if he would feel comfortable talking about Erik and/or John on this forum, with a link to the site. A mutual friend of ours said he would probably be willing to help where ever he could if it was all to help help his bothers case. Being 47 years old, I'm guessing he's not on Facebook on a regular basis so it will probably be a bit if and when he responds.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on September 11, 2010, 12:00:25 PM
Hi Bobbo - I was hoping to hear that the families were pushing the OPP for info on the whereabouts of retired OPP Constable Robert Lewis on 24 August 1981, in order to rule him out.  Since Lewis was found guilty of crimes against 10 young boys all from or near Caledon, including an incident in 1981, I would like to know as a concerned citizen.

The statement from the OPP that they could not put Lewis definitively in a criminal setting in Caledon that day seems like they are withholding info.  After reading some of the transcripts from the trial, I find there is no question they know where he was that day.

The easiest way for the family, or anyone else, to contact the OPP and ask the question is by clicking on 'resolve' at the bottom of the details posting on their website - attached.


http://www.missing-u.ca/MPs.aspx

Good luck to all.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bobbo1966 on September 25, 2010, 11:54:57 AM
Its been two weeks and I have not heard back from Dave Larsfolk so at this point either he doesn't want to stir up old emotions or hasn't looked at facebook in a couple weeks
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on September 25, 2010, 03:20:26 PM
Thanks Bobbo.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on October 03, 2010, 01:17:28 PM
Just wondering - this thread was originally under Ontario - Other Locations, was it moved to Hamilton heading in error?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 11, 2010, 09:07:29 PM
Hi Bobbo 1966, and welcome. I would like to straighten out a misconception. There was nothing wrong with Erik's home life. He was, and still is, a much loved young man by his family members. And is missed greatly. As is John Jr. by the members of his family.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: me on October 26, 2010, 10:13:53 AM
Oct 25 Toronto Star states that police are using new technology to do ground penetration search at old McCormick farm in Caledon.  One of the areas of interest is a concrete floor in a barn.  Article states that
Quote
John McCormick Sr., was one of several persons of interest in the disappearance, Karski said, but he died in 1987. Police haven’t been able to locate his wife, Joyce, who sold the farm on Horseshoe Hill Rd. and moved away.

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Concerned on October 26, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
This is wonderful news that they are going to make this effort. I hope there will be answers that come forward from this.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: me on October 28, 2010, 10:05:42 AM
I checked the Caledon newspaper website, and according to today's article, the new technology has not turned up anything new.  The concrete floor of the barn checked out clear.  It sounds as though they have finished with the farm, but there are still other areas that will be checked "at a later date".
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on October 28, 2010, 11:08:02 AM
me - here is the article you reference -

http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/article/93585 (http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/article/93585)


Father struggles with son’s disappearance
Thursday October 28 2010
By Heather Abrey, Enterprise Staff

 Detective Inspector Andy Karski, right, was at the former McCormick family farm on Horseshoe Hill Road on Oct. 25 where new technology is being used to search for clues in the disappearance of 15-year-old John McCormick and 14-year-old Eric Larsfolk last seen on the farm on Aug. 24, 1981. Lloyd Larsfolk, the father of one of the boys, was also at the farm during the search, along with Caledon OPP Detachment Commander Rose DiMarco. Heather Abrey photo
 Print this article
Email this article Eric Larsfolk and John Patrick McCormick Jr. would both be 44 now - grown men with lives and families of their own. Lloyd Larsfolk still hopes that his son is alive and well out there somewhere, but to him Eric will always be the 14-year-old boy that went missing nearly 30 years ago.

His son was a small teen, he said, but he has no idea what he would look like now. What kind of man he would have grown into.

It was on Aug. 24, 1981 that then 15-year-old John McCormick and 14-year-old Eric Larsfolk were last seen on the McCormick family farm on Horseshoe Hill Road, heading toward a local gravel pit. No one has seen or heard from the boys since and no arrests have ever been made.

Caledon OPP are investigating this 30-year-old missing persons case under the direction of Detective Inspector Andy Karski, former Detachment Commander for Caledon OPP. On Oct. 25, police were back at the old McCormick family farm, now owned by Sarah Graham, to employ new technology in the search for the boys.

Police officers used a ground penetrating radar device to search certain areas of the property for soil disturbances.

"We've gone back to the locations of interest from the last investigation, and this is where the boys were last seen," said Karski of the farm. About half a dozen locations on the property were searched and there are several other locations of interest elsewhere that will be addressed at a later date, police said.

Officers first turned their attention to a young pine forest. The trees here were only saplings when the two friends went missing many years ago, but Lloyd remembers it well.

"I looked for broken branches where somebody could have carried the kids in, but I didn't find anything. But I looked," he told officers as they scanned the ground for soil disruptions up to 10 feet below the surface. "I hope really they don't find anything."

Lloyd, now an elderly man and a widower, has continued to search for his son over the years and still holds out hope he is alive, despite the fact that no sign of either boy was ever found. By the same token, no bodies were ever found either.

"He just disappeared. We don't know why or how," he said, noting that he tried to get the radar technology to the property through Child Find USA before it was available to OPP. "[This is] very important. Nothing is more important than finding my son."  Lloyd spoke of one person's theory at the time of the disappearance. If there had been a recent burial in an area graveyard someone could have dug it up and buried the boys. Who would know?

A morose thought, according to Lloyd, but not impossible.

For investigators, since no bodies were ever found, this is still a missing persons case. Foul play cannot be ruled out, according to police, but nor can they speculate.

The new ground penetrating radar technology can detect soil disturbances up to 10 feet below the surface, but "it's a lot of interpretation as far as the information," said one of the officers operating the machine. Police began digging in the forest and found that the device had picked up a ribbon of clay, not new evidence.

Over the years there have been lots of theories about the disappearance of the two friends, but no definitive answers have been found for surviving family members. Was there a landslide in the gravel pit? Did the boys meet with foul play? Public suspicion resulted in aspersions being cast against family members and strangers alike, but nothing has ever been proven. Still, OPP never close a case, and Lloyd was pleased to see them back at it.

"These guys are doing a lot today," he said, speaking about his appreciation.

Monday afternoon police wheeled the radar back toward the homestead and set about using it to get an idea of what may lie beneath the floor in the barn.

Graham, who has owned the property for 18 years, spoke about the floor in the tack room being cemented only a week after the boys went missing, although police did not confirm that information.

Nothing was found during the search of the farm, but the investigation is just another beginning, not an end, and Lloyd may get his answers yet.

"Not that I'm anyone special," he said, "but I've got a son missing and I'd like to know where he is."

The Enterprise will continue to follow this developing story
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on October 28, 2010, 11:52:18 PM
Both of these statements are incorrect.
Police haven’t been able to locate his wife, Joyce, who sold the farm on Horseshoe Hill Rd. and moved away.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: me on October 29, 2010, 10:14:31 AM
Yes, I thought that couldn't possibly be correct, when a family member had contacted Chris and posted on this thread.  Slueth, do you want me to contact The Star and point out that this is an error?  It is sloppy reporting and seems to cast a poor light on the McCormick family.  If you re-read the article that Chet kindly posted in its entirety, the reporter makes it sound as though he received this information directly from the police.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: curiouscat2 on November 14, 2010, 10:40:22 PM
Thanks for posting and clearing up many misconceptions Kim. Our prayers are with you and hope the boys are brought home soon.
  new to this,  I currently live on Horseshoehill rd not to far from the old McCormick farm.

how is it John sr was drunk the night the boys disappeared but he was able to drive kim to the babysitter and did he pick her up at 9 pm??
Where was he from the time he drop kim of  and until he picked her up ??
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on November 15, 2010, 07:16:17 AM
Hi curiouscat2 - John's sister Kim posted on this thread a few pages back.

According to her, her father drove her to the place where she was to babysit at about 6:00 pm, and that she was driven home about 9:00 pm.  John Sr is reported to have been home during that time and John Jr's mother was at work.

What do some of the local people say today regarding this case, considering a new search of some of the McCormack property was recently conducted?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on November 21, 2010, 08:40:43 AM
Woodland:   Check out the Peterborough Examiner newspaper, They are saying Lewis got 8 years in jail, and on the sex-offender registry for 20 years.   Sorry, I still haven't mastered copy and paste.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Woodland on November 21, 2010, 10:28:27 AM
Thanks jobo.

Concerned was going to pull all the info on Lewis together again and re-post (possibly under sex crimes?).  More info on him was under the now deleted 'Test News Feed' thread.

While I think it was great that the OPP recently used ground penetrating radar at the McCormack farm to rule out the possibility these 2 boys were buried there, it seems to me there was not enough time that night to bury them where no one would notice freshly disturbed soil in the following days.  If anything an accident at the gravel pit seems more likely than burial on the property, however wouldn't a recent gravel slide have been noticed?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 01:19:30 PM
I am going with an accident in the gravel pit.  A landslide of some kind.  Was heavy equipment ever brought in to search this gravel pit? If 2 boys went to play at the gravel pit, two boys may have slid down and caused a landslide. It wouldn't take much gravel to cover and suffocate the both of them. They were not of adult size. Often there is deep water at the bottom of gravel pits, rain accumulation and seepage from underground water. If the gravel pit was high and deep enough, this would have discouraged searching at the bottom of the pit.  This RCMP child molester reminds me of priests, hockey coaches etc.  Make friends with the families, and take advantage of the young boys.  Terrible. But they seldom murder.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on November 23, 2010, 05:01:49 PM
Quote
The concrete floor of the barn checked out clear.

OK... these investigators used this new technology to determine that the soil wasn't disturbed (or added to, apparently) before the floor was re-poured in a particular section of the barn only a week after the boys disappeared.  I find two things odd. 

1.  the timing of this job done by the father only a week after the disappearance.  Does this indicate he wanted to keep busy because he was devastated by his son's disappearance?  .... strange he wasn't drunk.... especially considering those boys could be laying dead somewhere?

2.  I wonder if these investigators took the trouble to break open, and access that section of the barn floor to check for DNA - since that couldn't be done back in 1981.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: caledonenterprise on June 23, 2011, 10:48:21 AM
I'm a reporter with the local newspaper here in Caledon and I've been reading the post on these two missing boys from 1981 quite a bit and I'm beginning to take an interest in finding out more about the case - ie: looking for family connections, friends of the two families, neighbours, anyone at all who might have some information. I'm also looking for John's mother, Joyce.

If anyone has information, or cares to share what they have found through their research, please e-mail me. I would love to hear from you.

Very Best,
Andrew
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on June 23, 2011, 03:24:36 PM
I hope you've read all of this thread Andrew.  I suspect the authorities did little or nothing "in time" when this happened.  I also think at least one family knows more than they've ever admittied.  I can't make up my mind if the killer/s in within "one family" or is actually the newsreporter whose daughter has been saying along that her father is the killer of these boys.  I hope you are a "real reporter".  There are so many who claim to be, but end up  doing/reporting only what they are told to by higher ups.  I know only two or three investigative reporters in the country who have managed to be "the real thing." 

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Angela Ellis on June 24, 2011, 06:04:09 AM
As far as I know, David Norris was ruled out in this case and all the others that he was accused of.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on August 21, 2011, 09:22:40 PM
On this the 30 year anniversary of Eric and John missing. You boys have never been forgotten and people are still searching for you both. 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: me on August 25, 2011, 10:41:20 AM
I'm reading the article and asking questions as they come to mind. (It's well written, by the way)

OPP officer Bill Currie thought that the boys might have taken off to go the the CNE in Toronto.  Did someone make comments that would lead him to believe this, or was it purely a guess on his part? 

Today the CNE only runs for about 10 days.  Did it run longer back in 1981?  Why would the police make this suggestion, to quote your article "weeks" after their disappearance? Surely no one would expect them to be gone more thatn a couple of days, if this had been the case.

The anonymous tip that lead Mr. Larsfolk to investigate the basement of a house - was that ever tracked down?  Was it someone who had a grudge against the home owner and hoped to get him into trouble?  Did the police ever clear that home owner?

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 01, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
I understand that George McCullough is still alive to this day.  I recall somebody from Ontario telling me this on the telephone after reading this story.  Andrew, are you certain this man is dead?  Perhaps someone deliberately fed you misinformation?  Now I'm real curious and have to check that out further.

Modified:  I just checked out a note I made of this ...and McCullough is dead.  I just knew there seemed to be something amiss in this story about one of those people.  Finally, after going through a bunch of scribblings, I realize I made notes about Michael and Darlene MacCormick about a year ago. 
A friend of mine had met them personally.  I think I may have read in your story that Michael passed away.  So I am still confused .... unless it was in the last year or so.

Modified second time:  I did read that: [quoteEven 30 years later, Darlene still holds the same hope Lloyd does – that maybe the boys will be found. Darlene and her late husband Michael kept the same phone number since their nephew disappeared.][/quote]
I'm pretty sure Michael McCormick (John Sr.'s brother) is still living????
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Mom on September 01, 2011, 10:02:22 PM

Lost.... do you need anyone else in that conversation?   ;)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 01, 2011, 10:26:55 PM
good point mom! ..... Guess I'd rather contradict myself.  ...safer that way.  I always kinda felt that if anyone in those two families would keep the boys fight alive, it would be the uncle and his wife Darlene.  So I'm just trying to deal with one of them passed on?????  I wish the writer "Andrew" would clear that up for me.  I only want to know when he died. :-[
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jellybean on September 02, 2011, 03:20:53 PM
http://www.caledonenterprise.com/tag/lostboysofcaledon/

This is very good reading. These are various links.  You will have to open the top link up to read all of it. There are  more links of which I have not posted. :)


Tue Aug 23, 2011

http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/thirty-years-waiting-for-answers/

Thirty years waiting for answers

It’s difficult for Lloyd Larsfolk to find closure. Thirty years ago his son rode down the driveway of their Horseshoe Hill Road property on his brand new bike and out of his life forever. Things have never been the same. His other children have grown up, started families and lived life to its fullest. Eric, 14 years old at the time he disappeared with John McCormick Jr., never got to live his life.


Fri Aug 19, 2011 
http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/one-stone-left-unturned-2/
One stone left unturned?

The summer of 1981 came and went with the blink of an eye. Fall colours took over Caledon as students returned to the classroom for another year.
Thursday, August, 18, 2011 - 8:08:02 PM
 One stone left unturned? "[...] since Monday. The following link is for the third instalment of the series, published today in the Caledon Enterprise. It’s an explosive revelation in the story surrounding Eric and John Jr. and was definitely [...]"
Comment by LOST BOYS OF CALEDON – PART THREE | Andrew Livingstone


Thursday, August, 11, 2011 - 2:02:54 PM
 ‘I just want to know what happened’ "[...] one of the four-part series is now available at the following link. I hope you enjoy reading as much as I enjoyed getting to know Eric and John [...]"
Comment by LOST BOYS OF CALEDON: PART ONE | Andrew Livingstone



Aug 19, 2011 
http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/the-night-when-lives-changed-forever/
The night when lives changed forever

In the black of night Lloyd Larsfolk felt helpless. On his hands and knees, he scoured the ground hoping to find something – a piece of clothing, a shoe, anything. He called for his son. Only silence spoke back.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on September 13, 2011, 04:18:59 PM
thanks for all that Sleuth.  I want you to know that by the time I'd finished reading the 3 part series (it wasn't easy for me because I found the newspaper's site all interwound .... not user friendly at all), I found myself seeing John Sr. in the same light I had always suspected he was ...but this time, more so.   The story, filled me in a lot; but I do agree that the writer maybe should have waited until he had more time to double check his facts ... or at least check them once - sometimes reporters/journalists are in such a hurry!
 
I saw John Sr. in a new light .... that is to say "even more diabolicable than I originally imagined".  It makes me feel as though he had been a cruel disciplinarian .... one who is "do as I say, not as I do".  I suspect he did the harm to the boys, and then McCullough had him "over a barrel" so to speak.  ...starting with demanding money.  (like the "credit card" days later) .....That would also explain the fact that he had no reason to keep John Jr.'s room in tact, and packed it up days later.  I always felt that, but didn't know of any proof of it... just always suspected it.  He knew his son was gone for good. 

The reason I suspect him over McCullough, is the fact that I don't think McCullough would have gotten away with taking anything from John Sr. ...even an unruly, pain in the neck, sass-back kid (which is what the writer tells me John Jr. was when it came to his horrible drunken father) nor machinery, nor anything.  So why did McCullough have such leaway with the machinery?.... he probably didn't, only did what he was told to after the big scene/murder of the two boys - then he took the boys in the backhoe onboard the truck while John Sr. did what most drunks do.... sobered up in minutes after what had occurred.... half drunk, half in shock, but diabolical and controlling enough to save his old ass by "willing, like a good Dad" leading the others to the gate and opening it. McCullough probably only played drunken John Sr. to get in tight enough with him to be able to benefit over and over from it.  I think McCullough buried the boys near his own place, and it was a done deal.  I think the police "dropped the ball big time" back then .... and were never ever able to get the game back on course after that.  Once he got away with one big crime, McCullough was unstopable afterwards imo.!  ....I think this will all be established.  Thanks again Sleuth.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on February 26, 2012, 08:45:51 PM
Happy 46th Birthday John Jr! Wherever you are, you are thought of often with much love by family and friends and greatly missed.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on April 25, 2012, 10:09:51 AM
THANKS A MILLION Bmmx;  I've got a serious investigator friend in your area who would be quick to round up the shovels and backs for you.  I just contacted that person on your behalf.  Sit tight.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on April 25, 2012, 12:14:36 PM
Bmx; I understand you concerns... sensible and valid.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on April 26, 2012, 06:34:04 AM
BMXEmpire I would like to help. I live in Caledon, about 10 minutes from you. I have been obsessing about this case ever since I read about it in the Caledon Enterprise. Please let me know if there is anything I can do.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on April 26, 2012, 07:44:27 AM
From reading your posts BMX.....I get the impression you are thinking about what could be under your concrete porch...correct?   It wouldn't be the first time a perp has buried their Victim(s) under a concrete slab.  I remember reading an article on an old UNsolved case, and the man's remains were found under the front porch.

I hope something comes of this.   I live in Central Ontario, I could also help!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on April 26, 2012, 08:51:25 AM
Just curious Bmx; I'm just a woman, but I would be out there with a big crow bar and sledge hammer... if not a small jack hammer.  I get obsessed with something this serious.  ..but that's me.  I've got reason to be explosive about situations such as this.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on April 27, 2012, 06:16:19 AM
One thing I can't stop thinking about is the red clay. The only place that has red clay is The Caledon Badlands. It's a 15 minute drive from the farm house. I drove by it yesterday and the back of my car is covered in red clay..
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on April 27, 2012, 06:23:18 AM
Lost, I am a skinny little thing, but the Septic guy said he should hire me to help him dig (no, thank you).....I work hard!  ;)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Deb R on April 27, 2012, 06:31:19 PM
I too live in Caledon. I would be willing to help out however I can.
Deb R
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Deb R on April 29, 2012, 11:08:19 AM
I have a couple of suggestions to do with the "digging/excavation" issue. 

Dogs:
I used to work with a girl who had a specially trained dog who was able to ascertain if human skeletal remains were in a certain location. I believe this works on the same premise as the drug sniffing dogs at airports.  This girl travelled all over the US with her dog (can't remember what breed the dog was, just some specialized German breed) visiting locations that were (as of yet uncertained) Civil War burial sites.  She told me in detail how these dogs specialized in discovering burial sites were either complete bodies or incomplete bodies (ie. the head, upper torso, lower half of body, bone fragments, etc).  I will try to contact her to see if she has a contact she can recommend in Ontario.

Intuitive Person/Psychic:
I know a lot of people are skeptical of this, but many intuitive people and psychics can tell if a house/location has bad energy because a murder occurred there or human remains are buried there. I have some limited ability in this regard and would be more than happy to come out and spend some time there and see/feel for myself.

These might be some good options before actually digging/excavating.  I live in Caledon (I think fairly close by) but am not sure of the exact location where this house is....is this property part of the Niagara Escarpment?  If so, then they may need to be contacted and things will be complicated.

Deb R

   
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Logical on April 30, 2012, 12:04:01 PM
Found this while googling info related to the geographical area between Hockley and Caledon.  Can any of the locals tell us if these are accurate pictures of the McCormick farm?

http://www.pitsense.ca/

Also interesting that they may be doing aggregate work on this farm, wonder if it has already happened?

If these are the pictures of the area, the quarry is way back of the property, how far toward the "pit" was the car that was presummed driven by the boys broken down, were they headed toward the pit?  That is a huge property mostly dense trees in 2010.


August it would be day light until 8 or 9pm, maybe even 9:30pm. Eric went to the friends farm around 7pm(1900), I understand that the alarms went off around 10 or 10:30pm as to their whereabouts.

Trying to think like 15 year old boys, if they were working on fixing a Van, what would have made them give up and then take another car and drive it on the property. Could be as simple as they could not get it running, it was getting dark and the reason for working on the van was to go on a joy ride on the property, so took the car when could not get van running?  But question is, did the boys drive this car to somewhere on the property on this evening?  Where on the property was the car found? Where could they go on foot from this location?

Someone mentioned a rumor of the boys heading to the EX in Toronto, yes it would have been open but find it odd that they would wait until dark to try and hitch a ride, August 24, 1981 fell on a Monday and to get from Heart Lake Road area to the CNE grounds is not a direct route by highways but then again 15 year old boys do not always think ahead.

The reported actions of the McCormick family (and I try not to read to much into the inuendo's that the media put into stories to get readers attention - half of the nitty gritty details of peoples home lifes that have nothing to do with the incident are always reported to bring more drama to the reading, we see how they can edit to make statments change etc) have always made me think of a scenerio - I apologize to any family or friends if this is upsetting: Maybe John Jr hurt or harmed/killed Eric on the farm that night while joy riding or fixing the van, told his father, they helped dispose of his remains and then sent John away into hiding. I felt it strange (if it is true that the McCormicks gave up so early in the search and cleared his room) that they did not look like the Larsons have done over the years (maybe they have, but privately) I got the impression they were acting like they already knew something, be it that John wanted to run away, or was mischevious, aggressive and they knew what he was capable of? Also another rumor was mentioned of sightings of John, but not Eric. 

Logical
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on May 01, 2012, 02:55:50 AM
Okay, I’m going to put Urban Legend’s to rest here.
John Jr was not an aggressive young man. He was a quiet loner, energetic, had a great sense of humor who never gossiped, about anything, he was more used to Adults than kids his own age. He was well like by his school mates. He had a passion for fishing, and was an excellent mechanic. It was fishing which brought John and Eric together, since Eric was also an avid fisherman.
This, of course is a cold case, which had never been closed by the OPP and has been an on going investigation since the boys disappearance.
-Eric left his home shortly after five that evening. Eric’s father took a walk for about half an hour. Eric and John were last seen at approximately 5:30 PM in the driveway of the McCormick property working on John Jr’s Van in the driveway by Kim who was being driven North, to the babysitters five minutes up the road from the McCormick home, by her father John Sr.
- The boys were seen driving around the farm in the old farm car by a farmer, (I won’t mention names due to privacy etc., unless the names have appeared in the paper at some point.) who was cutting his oats in the field behind the McCormick property at approximately 7:00 PM.
-Quite a few things went on that night, which needed weeding out, so as not to muddy the waters, so to speak.
-There was more than one bad dude who lived and hung out in the neighbourhood.
-McCullough was one of them.
-It was John Sr who noticed the gravel pit had had a rock slide and who informed the police of this.
-Another man, (who worked for the Grahams, who was renting the gravel pit at that time), on his own time brought in a rock mover and moved every stone around the gravel pit and back again in case the boys were under the rock fall. Four years later he shot and killed his wife.
-There was a strip club in Caledon Village called Michael’s. A lot of ‘different’ people hung out there and men from all the neighbouring towns, etc, would drive up to this bar.
- There was another man who hung out in the neighbourhood who had just gotten out of jail.
- Certain ‘gang’ member’s lived in the area.
- Two serial killers lived in the area.
- Certain people were practicing ‘black magic’, or the occult.
- Drugs were rampant at that time.
-And of course Lewis, the once OPP officer who worked in the area, and went up on charges of pedophilia and was found guilty.
- One of the interesting aspects of this case is a dog. The McCormick’s had dogs. One of the dog’s, a happy little black and white dog named Lady also disappeared that night. She returned home the next day just before noon covered in dirt, burr’s and had sore ribs. This dog never had bitten nor bothered anyone before. From that day forth she would try and bite anyone who wore a uniform.
- Bear in mind both boys emotional state at that time. 
- The McCormick property has and had been shaken like a salt shaker. and nothing.
-There has been private searches of different properties, in Caledon and Hockley, with permission. And nothing.
- Both families had investigator's over the years. And nothing
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: debbiec on May 01, 2012, 08:42:37 AM
Seeing as it was Bmx that came here saying that he wanted to dig and that this property bordered his  property, I figured he would/should be part of this conversation.

I wonder why he felt the need to remove his posts.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on May 01, 2012, 10:45:31 AM
Conversations from another website if anyone is interested:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47857

Iirc, 2 years ago a poster by the name of Wick was interested in knowing about the property in discussion, of which I found a map and posted it for Wick. I was asked by Sleuth to remove the map as there was an intended search by a few posters from Unsolved who didn't want the family upset if too many people came around asking questions.
I removed the map, but also b/c it was in violation to a copyright law of a poster from WS who had done the map. (their rules)

Wick also stopped posting but didn't pull his posts. Does someone on here own this "case"? Why is it, everytime there is some interest in finding the two teens, someone puts a kibosh on it?
Who really does not want answers for the family??
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on May 01, 2012, 11:12:52 AM
Someone thought that the 4 part article is good reading!  ??? The 'journalist' did not do his job properly. The articles are riddled with errors. The biggest boondoggle is writing  that Michael McCormick is dead. Michael McCormick is alive and well and walking around in good health. If  a 'journalist', and I use that term loosely, can make that mistake, you can image the other errors. Sigh.

Perhaps he was mislead intentionally?? He too is only a guest here now. Strange.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on May 01, 2012, 12:21:53 PM
It is so very unfortunate that the cases of missing and likely murdered victims draws game players. Really very disheartening and sad. This is not the only case on here where this has happened.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on May 01, 2012, 12:40:14 PM
and this one about McCullough unfit for court on his dog dragging charges due to his cancer.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Bmxempire113 on May 01, 2012, 01:07:07 PM
I did not delete my post's in dispite i have a personal reason.. if you would like to get in contact with me and my property PM me and i will give you information about what i know what i have discoverd, you guys can tell me that im on a fishing trip and gving you fake info... i know whats real and not real.. belive me or not i dont care because the ones who know the most are the ones that wont curtisize what i have said.  i have no intentions of wasteng my time writeing B.S about 2 boys ive never met.. i was giving what information i think is true.

i am only going to talk/meet up with the people who give me a LEGIT name and dont ask to meet somewere random.... i have a sketchy feeling there is people on here that are trying to prevent us from solving this... and im not going to be the one to find out how.

please message me if you would like to help.

 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on May 01, 2012, 02:42:26 PM
Actually......My post from this morning is gone.....strange.   I posted after Sleuth and before GYM.

Sleuth, I asked you if the Cop you mentioned was the Cop from Fenelon Falls that was just in the news this past winter (I believe) for sexual assault on boys.

Odd that my post disappeared.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on May 01, 2012, 07:15:12 PM
GYM:  Do you recall my post this morning?  I thought I had posted just before you did today....

Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on May 01, 2012, 10:27:58 PM
I didn't notice your post on there when I went on jobo otherwise I would have replied to your question. Yes, Lewis is the same pedo who was found guilty. He helped in the search that night. However the OPP have discounted him.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on May 02, 2012, 05:14:14 AM
Thanks Sleuth....I thought it is/was the same cop.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on May 02, 2012, 06:35:33 AM
bmxempire you asked people to contact you if they wanted to help. Well I just tried to but you blocked me??


Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on May 02, 2012, 08:49:57 AM
Technology is such that experts could search the area around the concrete porch and not have to disturb anything.....that is what I am gathering from reading a few posts on the link to Websleuths.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on May 02, 2012, 02:50:48 PM
As most people are aware of Kim and her mother left the country last year. They have both worked very hard all their lives and have earned and deserve their new lives.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on May 03, 2012, 05:57:18 AM
LOGICAL-- No that map is not correct. The house was on Horseshoe Hill not Heart Lake.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Quietchaos on May 03, 2012, 07:55:53 AM
And Horseshoe Hill is technically Dixie for those out of the area.  It dog legs and changes name at Olde Baseline
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Logical on May 03, 2012, 10:47:42 AM
Thank you Caledongirl, you as well Quietchaos I know Dixie Road but did not know it was Horseshoe Hill.

Logical
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on May 25, 2012, 12:31:22 PM
Tonight, May 25th, on CBC News there is a special on these missing boys. Between 8:00 PM and 9:00 PM Eastern time. If you have information please phone Constable Karen of the Caledon OPP at 416-559-9239
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on May 25, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Thanks Sleuth, I shall watch this show.!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: eyeswideopen on June 01, 2012, 08:50:46 PM
Did any one watch it?? I small group of us including a few that live in Caladon are planing a walk through in june, a few with phycic powers are included in the group .  Hope something comes of it.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Deb R on June 02, 2012, 05:07:57 PM
Eyeswideopen,

Could you please let me know when your walk is scheduled for in June...I live in Caledon as well....I would like to go as well if my work schedule permits it....I am usually able to "feel things" in locations...maybe there is something one of us can see or feel or sense on the walk....

Thanks

Deb R
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: eyeswideopen on June 02, 2012, 06:04:58 PM
will do DeB R for sure.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Doug55 on October 02, 2012, 05:18:59 AM
I grew up with John Jr and went to school with him I remember John incredibly well. He was a great kid, well liked by everyone and generous. The one thing I always will remember is his lunches - a bag of chips, pop and candy...lol! We all begged him to share and it was rare for him not too.

I remember the day I returned from Summer Vacation and learned of Jogn's disappearance. I was shocked and devasted as he was one of the kids who never treated others poorly like so many in Caledon did. I have wondered often over the year what happened to John and hope wherever he is it is a peaceful place. He did not deserve this to be his memory. I knew his sister Kim as well and her account of the history is what I would believe any day of the week.

God bless your soul John wherever you are and know that there are many who remember you.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 10, 2012, 10:18:06 PM
not sure if that is ment to be sarcastic or what Caledongirl since that is not my name on here.  Yes we did go on the walk about in June, unfortunately nothing came of it.  One of our more phycic people felt some vibes at a gravel pit type area that we found, but it appeared to be an unused pits and we didnt see anything .  But it was a cool and rainy day , hoping we will get to do it again in the spring and spend the whole day have to wait and see
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sleuth on November 20, 2012, 12:58:22 AM
Today tears came into my eyes. After years, how many, I’ve kinda lost track…….great news!!!! Information came my way which I followed up on and we hiked to a spot, with permission, last week and  took a hard look at a spot. There was a place which Mother Nature herself could never have made, it did not fit in with the surrounding landscape and took a closer look. Also something about the fence seemed off and upon closer examination some trickery was put upon it. We went straight to the OPP, and today they took the same hike and close examination that we did and agreed that something ‘was off’. And they have agreed to bring in the Radar! We will keep our fingers crossed. Don’t ever give up! If need be take a rest and then start again. 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on November 20, 2012, 01:50:36 AM
Wow, that is great news Sleuth! I sure do hope there is some resolve finally.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jobo on November 20, 2012, 08:25:42 AM
I hope some answers come, Sleuth....good going!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Deb R on November 20, 2012, 07:14:52 PM
Glad to hear of your findings and that something is being thoroughly investigated...keep us posted on what happens.

Deb R
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Wick on March 15, 2013, 09:51:24 PM

Wick also stopped posting but didn't pull his posts. Does someone on here own this "case"? Why is it, everytime there is some interest in finding the two teens, someone puts a kibosh on it?
Who really does not want answers for the family??

SAP! I'm still here, and I've been trying to read up on this case as much as possible, I was a kid back then, I'm now a college student so I don't have as much free internet time as before, I've also neglected to log in and post due to the fact that I've had nothing to say currently, I haven't found anything new to share that hasn't already been shared. Plus I'm watching another case, one that's had my interest since it happened on my first birthday in 1993.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on March 24, 2013, 12:55:14 PM
Thanks for checking in Wicks. Unfortunately this is another case where people know something and did not talk to police due to situations. It's very sad that to know what people can do to children that should be loved and protected. :'(
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on April 29, 2014, 10:35:29 AM
Just popped in to see if there was any new information/updates that had been posted. I am surprised that theres been no activity in such a long time. I drive past the McCormick/Larsfolk homes on my way to and from work and think about this case everyday. I myself, have a few locations of interest I plan on checking out very soon. One of which, I am still unable to get a confirmed address on. If there's anyone on here that has any confirmed addresses of any of the suspects or persons of interest, besides the 2 houses they boys lived in, could you please message me.

Thanks everyone 
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on April 30, 2014, 04:43:47 AM
The people who were going to be doing some sleuthing never came back to give updates. A few years ago I posted a picture of the house and area and I was asked by Sleuth to remove it b/c Sleuth and others were planning on talking to family members and they didn't want their chances ruined by other would be sleuthers who might go and antagonize the family with questions. I removed the picture which I don't have anymore. Whatever they came up with is a big secret to us all. Plus the cold case has not been solved. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on April 30, 2014, 10:18:08 AM
You posted a picture of what house? Do you have any addresses you'd be willing to share with me through a direct message?  Like I said I know the addresses of the boys. Im looking for others

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on April 30, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
Message sent with a link to further info, and hopefully the maps give you more addresses.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: sleuthhound on May 16, 2014, 08:38:45 PM
A couple years ago I posted a map here that showed inconsistent patterns from the aerial shot, as well as what looked like decent sized holes that were covered. I can't recall the location nor how I came across it but what I do recall is it seems pretty useful at the time but no one got around to checking it out.

Any clue?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: SAP on May 17, 2014, 08:41:37 AM
A few years ago I was asked to remove a picture and perhaps your picture was removed for the same reason. 2 posters from here wanted to talk to family and do some searching and didn't want alot of other people getting it into their heads to go talk to family and possibly get them upset before the 2 from here could talk with them. One was an admin however neither are here anymore and we weren't told what transpired when they did search. Perhaps nothing at all was found. It really suits no purpose to secret info away but one of the posters did say they were going to try and talk police into further searching based on their info.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: freeman on July 14, 2015, 07:42:44 PM
The book Murder City about a series of murders in London Ontario in the late 60s /early 70smenrions this case as possibly being done by killer who left London in to escape the scrutiny of the OPP, and moved to this area at the time of this disappearance,
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on February 04, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
I firmly believe the boys were murdered by the bad tempered father of one of the boys .... and neither family in need of closure because they already know... and don't want the publicity ... especially since the killer has passed on too.  just what I think!
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Caledongirl on May 04, 2017, 03:22:56 PM
I have an address of the shop that John McCormick Sr hung out at often. Anyone wanna come search the area with me?
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on May 04, 2017, 08:42:42 PM
Caledon;  you remind me of myself.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: jellybean on May 04, 2017, 08:52:44 PM
I firmly believe the boys were murdered by the bad tempered father of one of the boys .... and neither family in need of closure because they already know... and don't want the publicity ... especially since the killer has passed on too.  just what I think!

I agree!! JM Sr. More than bad tempered.... I think.

Quote
John McCormick Sr. joined in the search that night -- but that would be the
last time he would help out. He would never make a public appeal for his son
or speak to reporters.
and =
Quote
They did grid searches of the bush, dragged all the ponds, hunted in every
barn and every well. Long after they had moved away, Larsfolk would return
and search some more.

He could not let go. He still can't, even after all this time. The
McCormicks, though, packed up John's room a few days after he went missing.
[/b]

The mother knew... or suspected, but never said one word. too afraid to.  imo Quite common in an abusive household.

jb
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on May 04, 2017, 09:24:21 PM
I have always wondered about the guy the old man had move the piece of equipment the day after.... I'm thinking that guy may have knowingly or unknowingly moved/disposed of the bodies ... just a hunch?  :-\    .... been a lot of cases going through my old head for a lot of years, so although I cannot recall specifics without reading the thread again.... this is what still sticks in my mind about this case (from page 11) 
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thanks for all that Sleuth.  I want you to know that by the time I'd finished reading the 3 part series (it wasn't easy for me because I found the newspaper's site all inter wound .... not user friendly at all), I found myself seeing John Sr. in the same light I had always suspected he was ...but this time, more so.   The story, filled me in a lot; but I do agree that the writer maybe should have waited until he had more time to double check his facts ... or at least check them once - sometimes reporters/journalists are in such a hurry!
 
I saw John Sr. in a new light .... that is to say "even more diabolic able than I originally imagined".  It makes me feel as though he had been a cruel disciplinarian .... one who is "do as I say, not as I do".  I suspect he did the harm to the boys, and then McCullough had him "over a barrel" so to speak.  ...starting with demanding money.  (like the "credit card" days later) .....That would also explain the fact that he had no reason to keep John Jr.'s room in tact, and packed it up days later.  I always felt that, but didn't know of any proof of it... just always suspected it.  He knew his son was gone for good. 

The reason I suspect him over McCullough, is the fact that I don't think McCullough would have gotten away with taking anything from John Sr. ...even an unruly, pain in the neck, sass-back kid (which is what the writer tells me John Jr. was when it came to his horrible drunken father) nor machinery, nor anything.  So why did McCullough have such leeway with the machinery?.... he probably didn't, only did what he was told to after the big scene/murder of the two boys - then he took the boys in the backhoe on board the truck while John Sr. did what most drunks do.... sobered up in minutes after what had occurred.... half drunk, half in shock, but diabolical and controlling enough to save his old ass by "willing, like a good Dad" leading the others to the gate and opening it. McCullough probably only played drunken John Sr. to get in tight enough with him to be able to benefit over and over from it.  I think McCullough buried the boys near his own place, and it was a done deal.  I think the police "dropped the ball big time" back then .... and were never ever able to get the game back on course after that.  Once he got away with one big crime, McCullough was unstoppable afterwards imo.!  ....I think this will all be established.  Thanks again Sleuth.
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Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: lostlinganer on May 05, 2017, 05:25:12 PM
wondering if the weather warnings for this weekend apply to that area... life is strange~  climate change brings all kinds of change.
Title: Re: Erik Larsfolk - John McCormick - Missing presumed murdered - Caledon, ON - 1981
Post by: Sap1 on May 06, 2017, 10:05:48 AM
There was another suspect who had lived in the general area at the time and had a propensity for young kids iirc. I remember reading something about that a few years ago but would have to re-read these threads and those on another site to comment further. There had been eyes on this other person by locals according to one person from the area.