Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Alberta Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Alberta Locations => Topic started by: debbiec on March 19, 2014, 10:18:14 AM

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on March 19, 2014, 10:18:14 AM

Kelly Cook - Part #1 can be found at:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.0)

Kelly's thread has become very long and hard to navigate. In light of that, we have started a second thread. Please continue here....

Please keep in mind

It's clear that not all who post on this thread are/will be of the same opinion. That's to be expected, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. As members of this forum each of us is entitled to respectfully voice our own thoughts and opinions. That having been said, we have to accept that others are entitled the same. That's the way it is on any given thread. This one is no different. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and move on.

**as a side note: I've been told a few times by different members that they no longer attempt to post on this thread due to the fact that they are aware of the scrutiny and criticism that they feel they will be subjecting themselves to. IMO that is unacceptable.  Every effort and contribution is valued.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 19, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
So the composite sketch came from 2 people being hypnotized?  I am not joking when I say - no wonder it could be anyone.
It is very poor indeed. 

Questions that I would ask the police.

Why not ask for a composite sketch from the bar man, when the poi bought the case of beer?

I mean the bar man had a lot to report about him.  His attitude for one - surely he saw his face when he gave him the case and took his money? There were enough people who saw him not?

Example - the people he reportedly played pool with (unless that is pure gossip)

Why not a composite sketch from the waitress - unless that is poor gossip.

Why not the funeral home in Calgary, on the chance that it may be the same man?

I am not arguing but asking a very common sense question as to why the police did not do this??
Why take the word of two men who went under hypnosis?
Why go to those lengths?

Don't you feel that this is a little strange, in view of the above?

As to three girls being asked not two, taking into account the reported waitress scenario..... waitress said that she could not - gave him another number
man goes to bar and calls girl number two who could not and gave him Kelly's number. Bartender reported he used the phone enquiring about a baby sitter, called one and she couldn't, gave another number, and he asked if she had another phone number, and she gave him another.  She gave him a total of two. So whatever way you look at it, waitress or not, he had three phone numbers. 

But calling up a Principal and demanding phone number of girl (preferred by poi)  is down right brazen.  I suppose this came up after the fact.  One would think the Principal would have raised the alarm at least to the parents.  Yet nothing?? He said nothing to her parents or to the girl??
Hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.  The Principal story came out in 2005 - was it not brought up before? If not, I wonder why? Was this kept in police files?

Gosh, by accounts,  he hung around Standard long enough, one would think someone would know something about him. He was demanding, unlikeable, down right ugly.  Surely he said something about himself to someone in Standard. There is some  physical description of him, but not of much else.
One thing, he is untrusting and cheap (counted his change from the bartender)  :)

And yes newspaper accounts are an excellent source, I am not discounting it - as long as the reporter verifies the information whenever possible. They too can be entrapped in misinformation just like anyone else.

I don't really have any theories - don't need to - as there are many of them.

It fascinates me as to eye witness accounts -.  He wore his glasses on top of his head. No description of his clothing, or footwear. So he probably dressed just like the locals. One thing they all agree upon is that he had an abrupt manner, and had a demanding demeanor. Very focused on achieving his goal, obtaining a" babysitter".
Yet no one knew anything about the man.  Unbelievable.

WOW!!

JB

 



Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: SAP on March 20, 2014, 12:15:49 AM
"Quote from: Dub on April 12, 2009, 02:07:43 AM
I was born and raised in Standard and have checked in on this thread multiple times through out the last year so I figured i'd ought to post.

Now the rumour around Standard has always been that the RCMP know who it is, and that this person hailed from around the Taber area but they never had enough evidence to convict him of this. Nobody local from my understanding was ever a POS in this case."

I am assuming that Dub meant POI and not POS.

At any rate, if the POI did it once, he has done it again somewhere. They just don't seek out one victim and stop. Aren't these young lives important enough to pull a Mr. Big sting if they would know who the perp really is? After all they pull Mr. Big stings to set up people when police have failed so badly they need to save face. (Roszko sting).
Now I'm not usually anti RCMP but there are times where they cover their own back sides before protecting the public which they are supposed to be doing.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
from Sap:
Quote
Lost - could you try really hard and dig that up?

and before Sap:  from myself:
Quote
For what is is worth, I came across an article a few months ago that bothered me... It was an article about either Mr. Cook or else a "Bill Christensen" being directly responsible for something getting closed down.  I have to try and drag it out of my old memory, but I think it may have been that one of those two were directly responsible for the "first ever closure of a chain business in that area.  It was either an A&W or a Tim Hortons or a MacDonald .... one of those franchise was closed abruptly in 1981 or so because of either Mr. Cook or Bill Christensen.  Seems both were very influential people in the area (if memory half serves me right).  I know that when I read it, I was researching what "Bill Christensen/s" had enough clout in that area to garner a "big revenge" from some bold pushy guy.  Food for thought indeed.  Funny thing is that I felt years ago that someone was paying back Mr. Cook for something... and that somehow that person was keen enough to know somehow (that's a stretch ..I know) that he could get Kelly to agree to babysit.  Maybe even, overheard someone, somewhere, mention that if the blonde figure skater wouldn't baby sit, that Kelly probably would.  I mean that is the kind of thing you could pick up while sitting in a restaurant or standing in line at a grocery store or something.... even while around someone discussing going out and getting a baby sitter.  In a small town, that kind of info. just floats around.  ...as I said... food for thought.  This killer may just have been bold enough, mad enough, and lucky enough to have it work out that way... an opportunity for revenge, that is! :-\   ...what I mean is that Mr. Cook may have had a big enemy or else, big business tycoon "Bill Christensen" had one coming to him.... so kill a local girl and very boldly and intently use the name of the person you want to "get back at"... ...it appears it didn't work if that was the case.

I think it was just weeks after New Years... I was digging and digging about the Bill Christensen aspect;  I was in my favorite.... and useful source of information when I came across that article about "a first-ever- closure of one of those franchise I mentioned above..... and how it was a result of a decision or "whatever" by either a "Bill Christensen" or "? Cook" .... and at the time of my researching, I had included Mr. Cook's actual name in the search.  Believe me, I was stunned to think of the coincidence there;  but then I managed to content myself with the fact that it had to be because of the fact that there were so many of the same name there at the time.  I remember the Christensen man being a powerful executive type involved with big business.  ...and I remember the Cook man having the same name as Kelly's father. 

I spent hours last evening trying to find that article again, however, I'm probably not getting the right combination of search words together.  So if any of you would be interested in trying, here is where I found that article.... http://news.google.com/newspapers     and I will keep digging for it again Sap.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on March 20, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
All of that sort of new information would be great way to start out the new thread with. Hopefully it can all be assembled in a manner easy enough for everyone to follow along without having to read an entire thread as long as this one.

There have been 100,000 plus views and there is a considerable following for Kelly. I still hold out hope that the truth with be known someday but I will end my involvement here on the old thread.

This is a case that challenges peoples perceptions well beyond where most anyone really wants to look. No one wants to question the authorities as to their decision making process but there are times when it is unavoidable. We can only follow the facts wherever they lead.

On paper alone, the description of whoever did this crime was not likely the type to stop on they're own. If Police actually had someone in mind, a Police lineup should have resulted for witnesses to confirm the perps identity. There is no sign of anything like that ever having occurred. The rumour the Police know who it is seems no more than a rumour to explain lack of success solving the case. It has served a purpose though to keep the public at bay supposedly while the Police try to make the case against this rumoured poi. Obviously nothing happened in that regard if there ever was any substance to it.

However a Mr. big sting was implemented at one time for the alternate undisclosed poi, T. Arnold. The results of that were very troubling. Arnold led the police operator right to the location where the body of Christine Browne had been dumped and where Arnold’s favourite saying was found scrawled across her shirt. “you mess with the best, you die like the rest”

Arnold does like to brag and I have no doubt he bragged about more that one victim to the Mr. big operator. Once Arnold begins talking of his exploits the flood gates open. His own favourite saying suggests there are more victims. Long story short he was convicted by a jury as a result the sting but the Crown overturned the conviction and summarily stayed the charges. He was released, jury members were outraged. That is the sort of thing that always occurred in relation T. Arnold. At the time of the sting, Arnold was also well known as the prime suspect in Barb Stoppel’s murder as well as the prime suspect in the murder of Denise Lapierre. I have no doubt he bragged of them as well. There was dna evidence available in those cases yet no charges ensued. Ever.. Now there is a gag order preventing Police from even speaking of murders involving T. Arnold.

Charges were actually being sought against the prosecutor in Barb Stoppels case for the wrongful conviction of a man set up in part by Police and Crown instead of Arnold being implicated. Arnold was never held responsible after that was disclosed in the inquiry.

A reporter from the Calgary Herald began to uncover Arnold’s past and all of what went on in regard the many murder investigations. She was preparing to write a book on the subject. I spoke with her a couple of times before she simply disappeared never to be heard from again. Her colleagues said she had left for Europe on a year long leave of absence. That was many years ago now. Suzanne Wilton had a great deal of information that could have had some bearing on Kelly's investigation. She knew where Arnold had lived while in Calgary and named Strathmore as being his home prior him moving to Winnipeg with his girl friend. This is where the Standard figure skaters pictures were published and maybe even where they practised. Arnold’s gf at the time believed to be a Victoria Spakowski claimed that a local skating rink was their place for hanging out and socializing prior going to Winnipeg. Arnold may have seen or met or even known some of the Standard figure skaters. The skaters could have been shown pictures of Arnold. Barb Stoppel had previously disclosed Arnold’s fascination/ fixation with girls wearing the skaters costume of the day.

None of what could have come from pursuing this sort of information has ever come to fruition. All avenues that focus on Arnold are cut off . That's the way it has been all along and will likely remain. I have no illusions left for justice if T. Arnold was involved.. 

Right from his earliest days there were warnings and flags being raised in regard this person. His own father said he should never have been out on the street, the Winnipeg youth detention centre warned everyone who would listen. It is a bizarre conundrum to find as violent insane individual as this who at the same time has been garnering so much assistance from our system to aid in his freedom time after time. It is near unprecedented.

For me I personally wanted to know if it could be true that Arnold killed Kelly after hearing Arnold’s confession. I stuck with this and was very happy to see all the information that has been posted here. It provided a basis to work through the details Arnold had disclosed. I realize that I alone had heard this but that does not make it substantial or credible in others eyes. Yet I heard it along with details provided that only the killer would know. I was obligated by the circumstance to try and tell the story of Arnold's confession and to seek whatever evidence there may be.

I have pointed out all my sources for all of the information I have based my conclusions upon. I hope that some day more information will be corroborated by sources other than myself as I fully realize why it is not readily acceptable as is.

I heard the young man from the funeral home not only claim that the age of the poi was much younger than what was being put forward by the Police, but that the Police were pressuring him to say the poi was older. That was an epiphany moment for me. I had no idea what it meant at the time but I knew it meant something. I hope that too can be corroborated someday. I know who I was with the day I heard it and had asked if she would recall the particulars at the time. Years and years pass and life happens, people die,  peoples memories fade. Its no easy task to unearth what contradicts the official line if it has never been published or said again in all those years.

Strangely even though Arnold admitted to Kelly's murder he denied being the person who went into the funeral home. This was one of the few instances during his confession where I actually felt he was lying. I wondered about that at the time and have come to believe it has to do with the young man who followed him and could identify him. I believe this to be a point where Arnold knew he could be caught. 

In the end the patterns demonstrated by all other investigations in regard T. Arnold show that he will never be held accountable even if he were involved. For me I have seen and heard enough, its not 100% but its enough for me. Not everything can be to court standards. I can do no more here. I understand this not being acceptable for others who did not hear or see what I did. I truly hope that success in solving Kelly's case will come somehow from some source in the future.  I firmly believe there should be an investigation and even a public inquiry into what went on in regard T. Arnold in all the murder cases he has been suspected of.

I hope everyone will understand why I personally can not in all good faith continue on in any other direction that I have outlined. This was not a standard discussion thread for me. I had hoped that public verification of Arnold here for Kelly's murder may lend credence to investigate the burial location Arnold claimed for Joanne Pedersen. She has not been found to date. I do wish everyone luck with the new thread and would gladly accept and welcome being proven wrong. I do not wish to interfere with whatever direction the new thread may take. I have nothing more to offer save a few details that need not be spoken of.
Good luck to you all both old and new posters..
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2014, 06:22:11 PM
Perhaps Standard is a town like where I grew up near... that being a clique town, where extended family/s with the same last name rule the rooste... sometimes a big shot newcomer is not welcome  :-\  .. and after a time, becomes victim to some nut in a coincidental manner.  I know in the town of New Waterford, where we believe my nephew was put to death by a "police choke hold", there are more people than not, who believe my nephew should not have been out partying with a bunch of drunk teens that night.... then he might still be alive.  You don't go against what happens as a result of messing with powerful people.  When townsfolk realize a "nobody" became victim of  powerful people "doing their thing", the majority doesn't even question or express such.  It is just left unsolved, unaddressed, unspoken, by the majority.  That is how you show you are worthy of acceptance among cliques in a town... by keeping out of it and, thereby showing/suggesting others do the same.  Perhaps Mr. Cook was a very capable man in his field and/or job.  ...thus; he might not have been all that accepted... maybe the locals didn't hold kindly to him holding a job or position that otherwise might have went to a "clique" ... just grasping straws here.. no offense or disrespect meant.  Also; I noticed the "Cook" name had some deep, old roots in the area... so maybe Mr. Cook was a "roots" relative who ended up in Montreal.  As I said, I'm not meaning to go off in a direction of disrespect, but we know little or nothing of Mr. Cook's past.... but we do know the name "Christensen" is one of the most formidable names around that province and beyond it.   ... all food for thought.  And why not think in that direction? .... sticking to facts has been decades of dead end... maybe even manipulated to be that way.  There is something very fishy about the whole thing... otherwise, there is something very inept about the whole thing!  imo!
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2014, 09:22:06 PM
I recall somebody early on in this thread, while we were discussing why/how this killer us came up with the name Christensen, someone came up with the uncanny fact that a sign on the highway to or near Husser, mentioned the name.  To think that person may have viewed that sign prior to his dealings with Kelly is not far fetched when you consider that is where the strange "phone call for help.. or from Kelly or her obductor" came from.  You will see that sign and get a feeling for the Husser area here.  http://nre.concordia.ca/Photo_Gallery/25_Hussar.htm 
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jobo on March 21, 2014, 04:51:43 AM
Yes lostlinganer, that was me that came across the sign with the Christensen name on it.   That is important, easy for a perp to pick up on the name being a common one if it's on one of the town signs.
Another really important clue in this murder, in my opinion, is the "stranger" that tried to view Kelly's body in the Calgary funeral home (before it was sent back to Standard for the funeral).  How did the perp know which funeral home Kelly was in unless it was in the papers maybe?

I watched a crime show the other night where the psychologist said many perps like to go to the funeral of their victim....like to see what they did. (sick).

Interesting though D1, that Arnold denies going to the funeral home.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on March 21, 2014, 01:57:04 PM
Interesting indeed and even more so when you add in that Arnold admitted to knowing that Kelly was at that funeral home. He claimed to have heard it from a man employed as security for the carnival company whom he had caught a ride with to Calgary. That man had Police connections. On top of that Arnold claimed that "people" thought he was the person who had gone into the funeral home. He didn't say who those people were. There was a clothing description of the funeral home poi and the description of a car used in the getaway from the funeral home incident on tv at the time. No doubt someone could have put two and two together back then. Someone had lent him that car or he stole it from somewhere. 

The more I thought about all that and began to relate it to what I had heard on the tv news at the time, (the poi from the funeral home was much younger than what the Police were saying) the more I began to realize this was something that no one wanted known. Why? Where it may lead may be the exact information that is required to solve Kelly's murder imo.. Unfortunately it also calls into question Police procedure and chain of command in the decision making process at the time. The same as was found in all other cases involving T. Arnold. And so it ends..   
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 21, 2014, 02:24:28 PM
I have always wondered about one very important thing:  Did police, in those days/weeks after Kelly's disappearance, present mugshots of already known felons-abductors/sex offenders to the witnesses?  if they did, I'm sure their compilation would be sparse since the more likely suspects came to light long after the fact.  Therefore, did the police continue to call attention to other such felons as they came to light in the future... after Kelly's case reached a dead end?  If they didn't, the animal may have slipped through the cracks to offend again.  It bugged me about the guy from the states who used cinder blocks to drown his "still breathing" victims.... who were discovered afterwards to have died of asphyxiation.  It seems there were many killers lurking in Alberta and other prairie towns from Manitoba to BC.  Any one of them could have lingered around the area for a few weeks... either through a temp job (maybe even quit a job and made a run for it after killing poor little Kelly) .... or while looking for work.  Then too, I wonder if police checked out what known felons were on the loose in western Canada and the northern states at that time.  It has been expressed over and over how hard police worked on this case for a very long time, but we have no way of knowing in what manner they worked on it, or how far they grasped for clues.  It just seems that they kept their investigation around Standard and surrounding towns.  Any notice or mention of interest in felons from beyond that seemed to come from "awake" officials in other provinces or states.  jmo!   I keep going back to Oba Chandler because of the uncanny MO he used... and the fact that he had family who repeatedly sent him thousands of dollars whenever he was in a tight spot.... and if I recall, his father was a big shot or something (would have to look that up again) but it wouldn't be the first time the authorities "made an official note" of an animal like Chandler being behind bars in another province when it is physically possible they were out roaming..... I mean Chandler is a very obvious perp. to look at for this murder.... as are a few others.  http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.1020
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 21, 2014, 02:59:44 PM
just take a look at how much that Bill Christensen guy got around.... yet, he doesn't get considered for Kelly's disappearance because it is believed he was in jail in Montreal.  He committed a crime in Washington.... and other states not that far a jump from Canada... especially with pocket money from family. http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CHRISTENSON_william_dean.php
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 22, 2014, 10:49:47 AM
I have to say Sap, that whole story about Bill Christensen sure describes the character of the perp. who took Kelly.  Christensen had so much arrogance and "back up from his father through CIA and other too much to imagine", he could have gotten away with anything.  Seems the only thing daddy couldn't keep the light off him for was beating his young wife so bad.  That was probably just too public and too neighborhood involved to cover up, plus friends of this cold hearted Christensen would have felt sorry for the young woman, as did the poster telling the story.  Christensen certainly was bold enough and untouchable enough to use his real name in Standard (if it was him).  He would have even gotten a kick out of seeing his own name so much a part of that area.... on signs, in newspapers etc., because the name was also that of a powerful businessman with nationwide ventures and great control in the oil industry etc. in Alberta (mainly Husky oil) I think!  ..and Christensen did like to plan his moves... and also break into cars.

I wonder Sap, if it is possible for one of us to reach that guy on the link you sent... and/or his friends-in-common with Christensen.... in order to send them the composite photo of the suspect in Kelly's case.  I am up to my ears still digging trying to find the article about the franchise closure I referred to early on.. still no luck with that!  In addition to that, I donate a few hours each morning and each night to the Tomnod search;  I find that makes it bearable to cope with the possible loss of so many in that aircraft disappearance.  (not meaning to digress, but I have tagged several airplanes and dozens of ships, and other objects... over 300 in total since the search started... so my old eyes are strained to say the least).... but I do believe that Bill Christensen being jailed in Montreal (if that is fact, and not paperwork orchestrated by his father) is very viable suspect in Kelly's case.  Do you feel you could reach that guy who knew him so well?  ... or one of the others?  I do know that they told their story on that site back in March of 2008... so Lord only knows if any of them are still using that site .... but no harm in joining it to drop that suspect pic on that thread and ask for their opinion on the possibility of Christensen being in Alberta at the time, and not in Montreal.  I just find it too much of a coincidence that the animal gets locked up in another Canadian city right around the time he could be suspect.  Please consider trying to take that further Sap.  Thanks (modified to correct grammar)
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 22, 2014, 06:24:34 PM
http://coolopolis.blogspot.ca/2012/02/quiz-this-was-scene-of-most-disgusting.html

There is a picture of  him, the one on the left. Here he is referred to as Richard Dean Christensen.
Often called himself Bill Owen.
Similar to sketch from Standard?? Sorry, can't post his picture. Debbie, SAP, or Lost??? help! lol

Jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on March 22, 2014, 07:42:23 PM
http://coolopolis.blogspot.ca/2012/02/quiz-this-was-scene-of-most-disgusting.html

There is a picture of  him, the one on the left. Here he is referred to as Richard Dean Christensen.
Often called himself Bill Owen.
Similar to sketch from Standard?? Sorry, can't post his picture. Debbie, SAP, or Lost??? help! lol

Jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 22, 2014, 09:40:54 PM
... for comparison, here is my doctored up version of the Bill Christensen/Owen that JB has brought up ... next to the suspect sketch:

....he has the exact nose as the suspect... I changed his hair and glasses and gave him sideburns to show how he would look with them.  I could have gotten the "hair line more accurate'.  ...just take a close look at the original suspect's hair line (the right side of his forehead.. left side of his forehead in the "image")  notice the hair root area/hair density comes forward more than on the other side of his forehead.  I have that same hairline... as do so many with thick hair... and I have always parted/combed my hair into that direction - meaning "right part".... this suspect is depicted with a "left part".   You see the exact same thing in the actual mugshot of Christensen.  I find that spooky to say the least.  What are the chances of an ambiguous sketch (which most of these composites are) reflecting that physical characteristic?... uncanny... like gives me the shivers!   

the original attachments I had put here no longer appear in the link since the site changed last year;  so here is what I still have in my own files.... albeit, there are other pics and a lot written about him on other murder sites... the second picture was taken years after Kelly's murder .. while Christensen was in jail for other crimes.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 22, 2014, 10:04:54 PM
hi Lost;I like your doctored up version -- really neat!! But am hoping you can put up the photo of him with the original sketch and we can have a closer looksee?

thanks Lost

jb

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: SAP on March 23, 2014, 11:12:40 AM
I joined the forum Lost. It's actually a Corvette forum and that piece on Bill Christensen was just something Mr. Vette put in there on someone's request back in 2008. I left a link to the sketch and asked for possibly more info.
It's likely a needle in a haystack situation however we'll see if anything comes from it.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 23, 2014, 11:25:37 AM
Sure worth looking at:  Seems to me, by the following, while in Canada, he murdered women in Montreal.
Stuck to the east coast in the US.

http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/christenson--william-dean.htm

A.K.A.:    "A real American Jack the Ripper"
 
 Classification:  Serial killer
 Characteristics: Rape - Dismemberment - Barroom altercation
 Number of victims: 4 +
 Date of murders: 1981 - 1982
 Date of birth: 1945
 Victims profile: Sylvie Trudel, 27 / Murielle Guay, 26 / Michelle Angiers / Jeffrey Schrader, 51
 Method of murder: Stabbing with knife / Shooting
 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada / Pennsylvania, USA
 Status: Sentenced to life in prison without parole in Pennsylvania in 1983
 
 A native of Bethesda, Maryland, born in 1945, Christenson logged his first felony conviction in 1969, charged with assault and battery in the stabbing of a teenage girl in Washington, D.C.

 Two years later, he pled guilty to raping a Maryland go-go dancer, serving nine years before his parole in 1980. On April 16, 1981, traveling as "Richard Owen," he was picked up for rape in Montreal, bargaining down to a guilty plea on charges of indecent assault. A year later, he was "inadvertently" released by Canadian authorities, despite a request that he be delivered to Maryland as a parole violator and suspect in other violent rapes.

   On April 27, 1982, the decapitated, dismembered body of 27-year-old Sylvie Trudel was found in the Montreal apartment occupied by "Richard Owen."

   That same afternoon, the sectioned corpse of Murielle Guay, 26, was found wrapped in trash bags at Mille-Isles, 50 miles northwest of Montreal.

   Police were initially reluctant to connect the crimes, noting that Trudel's killer displayed "a certain amount of expertise," while victim Guay was "really butchered," but their doubts were resolved by April 29, with murder warrants issued in the name of William Christenson.

   Back in the United States, Christenson met his parents at Lancaster, Pennsylvania, tapping their bank account for a $5,000 grub stake. (Both were later charged with harboring a fugitive.) With cash in hand, the killer started drifting over the eastern half of the country, spending time in Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.

   He was living in Scranton, as "Stanley Holl," when go-go dancer Michelle Angiers was stabbed 30 times in a tavern parking lot at nearby Dickson, her body recovered on September 13, 1982.

 Nine months later, in Trenton, New Jersey, Christenson shot and wounded two black men whom he had befriended in a local saloon.

 On December 4 of that year, in Philadelphia, he used the same gun to kill another black, 51-year-old Jeffrey Schrader, in a barroom altercation. Arrested in that case, Christenson sat in jail while police searched his apartment, retrieving a bloody mattress and a hacksaw, matted with blood and hair. (No trace has been found to this day of the dancer with whom he had once shared the flat.) Convicted of the Schrader homicide, he drew a prison term of life without parole.

   By the summer of 1984, felony charges were piling up against Christenson. Trenton authorities wanted him for trial on the double shooting, while Montgomery County, Maryland, sought to try him on another rape charge. That August, Canadian authorities closed their file on the Montreal murders, citing Christenson's present life sentence, but he was already suspect in two other slayings, the victims dismembered with a hacksaw. Nationwide, police named him as a suspect in at least thirteen deaths with suggestions that the final count might reach thirty. Pennsylvania officers dubbed him "a real American Jack the Ripper."

   Christenson responded to the attention by striving to make himself mysterious, signing court documents with a check mark and challenging prosecutors to prove his identity. In November 1984, he spoke to Philadelphia newsmen about his "extreme mental and alcohol problems," voicing the fear that he would be charged by police in numerous unsolved murders.

   On February 16, 1985, Christenson left state prison in a heavily armed convoy, complete with helicopter escort, bound for Philadelphia and his arraignment in the murder of Michelle Angiers. Convicted of third-degree murder in that case, on August 5, 1987, the killer faced a new term of twenty years on completion of his existing life sentence.

 The investigation in Christenson's case continues, with further prosecutions anticipated by authorities in several states.

Michael Newton - An Encyclopedia of Modern Serial Killers - Hunting Humans
  OOPS -Kelly Cook was murdered April 22 1981 - Bill was picked up in Montreal April 16, 1981.
 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 23, 2014, 12:35:19 PM
Quote
OOPS -Kelly Cook was murdered April 22 1981 - Bill was picked up in Montreal April 16, 1981.
  .... looks good on paper!
 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 24, 2014, 06:50:20 AM
This composite also looks like another killer, whom has been discussed on this site.

The problem that I am having with this composite, is that it is so poorly done, it could be anyone.

Yet the police pinned it up at every general store  etc/ throughout the district.

I am sure that in the 80's talented composite artists existed within our forces.  They took the time and care to come up with a good likeness of any suspect.  Perhaps they did not have one within their jurisdictions, and had to fly with whatever they could put together (in a hurry). :( :( :(

JB
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: mom73 on May 01, 2014, 08:01:16 PM
Was talking to a co-worker about Kelly Cook last week and she said her brother had been one of the boys that had found her. She informed me that where they were the water was not high so the person that killed her did not need a boat. The levels of chin go up and down, especially during irrigation.
I remember a few years back, about 2000? (not sure of exact year) that Chin was completely empty, in fact people, including us were quading directly under the bridge! About that time I remember hearing reports of police searching for a gun and other possible evidence in the murder.
Sorry, as a local I've always found this case interesting!

Also as I stated in a previous post, Christensen is a popular name around this area, Taber, Milk River, Raymond, Stirling, etc. And there was a family of Christensen's that owned land in Milk River and lived in Standard from what I found on the internet
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: SAP on May 02, 2014, 09:11:12 AM
Lost it seems Bill committed a crime down east just prior to Kelly's death, however this is the answer i got from Mr. Vette on that forum link I posted:

Quote
I missed the 1st note above, sorry.... My only recollection is my having a security job that involved walk through metal detectors, and so used our highest sense units in the prisons....MAX wards looking for knives/needles/etc.....and so one of my prison visits was to a joint in Pa. where he did in a lot of folks..... and so during that time, I had a wife and 2 small kids, and got a note from Larry about Bill's being on the lose and he warned about him possible renewing 'old friendships'......kids or not, I loaded one of my guns, and kept it pretty well hidden.....well Bill never contacted anyone that we know of.....and a story Larry found in the early/mid 80's was that Bill died in a Pa. prison, MAX ward.......supposedly of stomach cancer/some such.....Larry and I think he was poisoned which is fine by us and any other SANE person....eff em.....

I forget the location, but it was not so very far from a nice summer lake that my sis knew of, and so we went for a few nights camping, on a beer run, the store was right across the street from that MAX prison that I had visited on the job some time before......recognize THAT shit in a nanosecond....

So I guess that answers your question, NEVER a more sense of relief to hear of someone's passing.....course who in hell ever was friends with a mass murderer????

eta: Link: http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=562

I think the name Bill Christensen is a common name, so probably not the same person.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 02, 2014, 11:39:26 PM
Thanks for all the effort Sap.  ... surely if we keep the pot boiling, we will eventually hear a "sizzle"; otherwise, some killer is resting easy.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on May 13, 2014, 09:57:58 AM



A reporter from the Calgary Herald began to uncover Arnold’s past and all of what went on in regard the many murder investigations. She was preparing to write a book on the subject. I spoke with her a couple of times before she simply disappeared never to be heard from again. Her colleagues said she had left for Europe on a year long leave of absence. That was many years ago now. Suzanne Wilton had a great deal of information that could have had some bearing on Kelly's investigation.



Just to clarify, reporter Suzanne Wilton did not drop off the face of the earth. She’s still around, as you can see by clicking on the various hyperlinks:


http://ca.linkedin.com/in/suzannewilton

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Long+Canadian+wait+times+send+patients+south+surgery+Video/9702357/story.html

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Effort+halt+land+sale+limbo+Citizen+fights+deal+city+property/6326343/story.html


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on May 13, 2014, 10:26:09 AM
Just to clarify, she was in contact with me in regard T. Arnold.  I was asking questions. She abruptly quit talking and her colleagues claimed she had taken a sudden leave of absence. "I" never heard from her again. I had others tell me that they had tried to contact her afterwards too without sucess. But... good to see she has returned so anyone wishing to chase down more on Arnold's address and whereabouts in and around Calgary before Kelly's murder may still be able to get that information from her. She had names and contact information for Arnold's ex's etc who could divulge the same. .. I encourage those with an interest to keep attempting to find that sort of information while it may yet be available.  You may just unearth the linch pin in Kelly's murder.. good luck


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: leonagleant on May 13, 2014, 09:59:01 PM
Well the reporter does mention coming face to face with a serial killer as presumably one of the highlights of her career on linked in.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 14, 2014, 07:18:45 AM
Quote
Just to clarify, she was in contact with me in regard T. Arnold.  I was asking questions. She abruptly quit talking and her colleagues claimed she had taken a sudden leave of absence. "I" never heard from her again. I had others tell me that they had tried to contact her afterwards too without sucess. But... good to see she has returned so anyone wishing to chase down more on Arnold's address and whereabouts in and around Calgary before Kelly's murder may still be able to get that information from her. She had names and contact information for Arnold's ex's etc who could divulge the same. .. I encourage those with an interest to keep attempting to find that sort of information while it may yet be available.  You may just unearth the linch pin in Kelly's murder.. good luck

D1; I clicked on that "linkedin" and read this reporter's description of herself.... It gave me the opinion she is a real "go-getter"... and not reluctant to brag about herself.  People like that are all about "what they are doing, what they want to know, what they will do with it, etc.  ... imo, she doesn't seem to be the type to sit down one-on-one and answer a person's question/s; that would not be to her advantage.  I expect that is why she gave you the brush off.  I expect she does have notes and info. that would really fill in some blanks on Arnold,  but I also expect she would never just come forward or give up such facts for the asking ... it would be in doing an expose work or "showing her stuff" I think it would take for this ambitious reporter to reveal what she thinks or knows.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on May 28, 2014, 04:03:48 PM
Ok, message received. I can be contacted by PM on here if or when required. A copy is then sent to my email address to alert me.
d1
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on May 28, 2014, 05:22:56 PM
quote Lost:
D1; I clicked on that "linkedin" and read this reporter's description of herself.... It gave me the opinion she is a real "go-getter"... and not reluctant to brag about herself.  People like that are all about "what they are doing, what they want to know, what they will do with it, etc.  ... imo, she doesn't seem to be the type to sit down one-on-one and answer a person's question/s; that would not be to her advantage.  I expect that is why she gave you the brush off.  I expect she does have notes and info. that would really fill in some blanks on Arnold,  but I also expect she would never just come forward or give up such facts for the asking ... it would be in doing an expose work or "showing her stuff" I think it would take for this ambitious reporter to reveal what she thinks or knows. unquote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have read her blog etc, etc, and OH MY!  there are so many etc.'s, I have lost count!!
She may have at one time contributed to the crime scene in various areas, but she was a reporter with established newspapers at the time. Which, I gather, was some time ago.

While I do not begrudge her career of which she has carved out for herself, I don't think that crime is her present passion, nor pursuit. To my mind, this lady has moved on to other things.

Very wise words Lost - and I so agree with you!!

jellybean. ;D
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on May 28, 2014, 06:54:19 PM
Was talking to a co-worker about Kelly Cook last week and she said her brother had been one of the boys that had found her. She informed me that where they were the water was not high so the person that killed her did not need a boat. The levels of chin go up and down, especially during irrigation.
I remember a few years back, about 2000? (not sure of exact year) that Chin was completely empty, in fact people, including us were quading directly under the bridge! About that time I remember hearing reports of police searching for a gun and other possible evidence in the murder.
Sorry, as a local I've always found this case interesting!

Also as I stated in a previous post, Christensen is a popular name around this area, Taber, Milk River, Raymond, Stirling, etc. And there was a family of Christensen's that owned land in Milk River and lived in Standard from what I found on the internet

Mom73 - Thank you so much for your invaluable input.

I have a question for you.  If someone went into Standard at that time, and gave the name Bill Christensen - would the town folk know that he was lying?

Looking forward to your valuable response.
Many thanks again.

Jellybean.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: mom73 on June 02, 2014, 09:13:17 AM
Not from Standard and have never been there...but probably not...:)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on June 14, 2014, 10:08:30 AM
Here is some one to consider (unfortunately he did commit suicide) It is very difficult to find anything on Fernand Auger who was thought to have murdered Melanie Carpenter in 1995.  In fact it was very difficult to find anything on Melanie Carpenter.  I find this very odd in itself.  It was actually D1 who came up with her name
see http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3207.msg109982#new

Here is the info that I could find.

http://pi.library.yorku.ca/ojs/index.php/public/article/viewFile/30043/27606

Here he was caught on video camera using Melanie's debit card.

He can be seen around 0:37

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/society/crime-justice/the-long-lens-of-the-law/cameras-cameras-everywhere.html

and here is a bit of background on him given by a friend.

http://business.highbeam.com/4341/article-1G1-16429347/prime-suspect-fernand-auger-suicide-adds-mystery-woman



JB

Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on June 15, 2014, 01:26:21 PM
After reading about T Arnold, I admit, he fits the bill best!! (re: Kelly Cook) I read T Arnold's thread, and I am shocked that law enforcement did very little - that he was allowed to continue on............

JB
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: rainstorm on September 10, 2014, 05:49:40 PM
Hi guys,  it's been awhile.   I think whomever has the ties to lethbridge/Taber  and area. There's a reason hey she was going there.  This man would have to know both areas. Meaning he more then likely drove that hi way. Knowing the going ons with that highway.  Knowing when and to put a body there. Etc.  He obviously did not know about irrigation.He probably figure the body wouldn't be found for a long while.
It's unfortunate that gag orders and these murders confess or brag about certain cases turn around and com it suicide.
I would go with arnold. It seems to me he would o have the connection to the standard area and the chin  location. Was he a trucker at some point?  Or just going to province to province collecting welfare?
It is possible he went down to the states and came up through couts border down highway and turned to the chin highway to Taber. .....

Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 24, 2014, 12:29:38 PM
Hi guys,  it's been awhile.   I think whomever has the ties to lethbridge/Taber  and area. There's a reason hey she was going there.  This man would have to know both areas. Meaning he more then likely drove that hi way. Knowing the going ons with that highway.  Knowing when and to put a body there. Etc.  He obviously did not know about irrigation.He probably figure the body wouldn't be found for a long while.
It's unfortunate that gag orders and these murders confess or brag about certain cases turn around and com it suicide.
I would go with arnold. It seems to me he would o have the connection to the standard area and the chin  location. Was he a trucker at some point?  Or just going to province to province collecting welfare?
It is possible he went down to the states and came up through couts border down highway and turned to the chin highway to Taber. .....



Ferdinand Auger lived in Lethbridge in early 80's.

Taken from Melanie Carpenter Thread.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3207.msg109981#msg109981

Fernand Auger
http://business.highbeam.com/4341/article-1G1-16429347/prime-suspect-fernand-auger-suicide-adds-mystery-woman

quote from article:

Within days, Auger had become the prime suspect in the abduction of 23-year-old Melanie Carpenter, who disappeared shortly after noon on Jan. 6 from the Surrey, B.C., tanning salon where she was working alone. In the two days following Carpenter's disappearance, at least four people observed Auger in the southern Alberta city of Lethbridge, where he had lived and worked in the early 1980s.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kelly was murdered in 1981.  Auger lived in the Lethbridge -Taber area in the early 80's.  His past included time for sexual assaults on teenage prostitutes, and time for armed robbery.
He also worked in Calgary as a waiter in a high class restaurant - so even with a criminal record, he was able to get a job.   He was a smooth talker.

He did not know Melanie, drove to Surrey BC from Calgary, phoned up her tanning salon and said that he was a business man from out of town and would like to treat a few clients to a tan - and would she please order some fancy sandwiches, etc.

The person who murdered Kelly, also in his hunt, called around and phoned a few girls looking for a baby sitter.

Very similar--- method of obtaining a victim. 


---- More to come on Auger...... (if I can find more lol)

 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 24, 2014, 02:53:19 PM
More on Auger and the murder of Melanie:

Keeping in mind, the killer of Kelly -look at the similiarities.

http://pi.library.yorku.ca/ojs/index.php/public/article/viewFile/30043/27606

Melanie was murdered in 1995- by this time, Auger was older and balding.
excerpts:

The Luring
She was working at Island Tan Tanning
Studios in the Evergreen strip mall in Surrey, not far from where she lived.
A few regular clients came in for appointments, but she was alone when she
received an unusual call shortly after lunch. A man said that he represented
a group of Japanese businessmen who were interested in buying a franchise
from Island Tan. He claimed that the group wanted the salon to themselves so
they could inspect the tanning beds. Melanie called her boss, Gary Marshall,
who was working at a nearby location, and Gary told Melanie that he was
on his way to assist her.

Gary Marshal1 arrived at the store 15 minutes later. When the phone
rang again, Melanie handed him the receiver.

"He was very soft spoken-a good command of the English language,"
said Gary.
During the conversation, the mysterious man cancelled his appointment,
saying that a member of his group had become ill over lunch. He agreed to call
again to discuss rescheduling the meeting, but five minutes later he telephoned,
for the last time, and asked if it was possible to supply hors d'oeuvres.
"When I look back on it now, it's clear he was trying to get me to leave
the store," Gary later reflected. "But at the time we both thought it was a
joke. Melanie herself kind of laughed it off.''
Gary left the salon at 1:30 p.m. and returned to Island Tan's Newton Village
location, but when a confused customer called him from the Evergreen mall
an hour later to say that the place was vacant, he raced back. Melanie was
gone. The salon's rear door was unlocked, and $250 was missing from the
cash register. Gary called the police.

The next day, CBC Radio announced that a man had been photographed
by an InstaBank security camera making a $300 withdrawal with Melanie's
bank card only minutes after she disappeared. The computer-enhanced
photographs were shown on TV and published in newspapers, but the radio
could only offer descriptions. The man was balding. He had a moustache and
appeared somewhat disheveled. He was about 5' 9" and was probably in his
early to mid-forties. He was thought to be driving a red Hyundai hatchback

A week passed before the man in the surveillance photographs was
identified. Fernand Auger was a convicted sex offender who worked as a
waiter in Alberta. He had recently been granted a statutory release after
serving two-thirds of an armed robbery sentence in the Bowden Institution,
near Calgary.

A prison psychologist described him as having a "fairly advanced antisocial
personality disorder."

A bartender related that Fernand Auger had once been a regular customer,
and that he would arrive during happy hour and drink a dozen glasses of
cold draft before heading out with a polite good-bye.

"He was quiet. He was never rude. I talked to him quite a few times
because he always sat at the bar," she related. "He never really talked about
anything specific."

Auger's boss in Calgary said he was the best waiter he'd ever had. "He
called in sick on New Year's Day, and I never saw him again."
"He was a very fast talker, rambled on fairly quickly. I've heard he had
anti-social tendencies, but you couldn't tell."

The next morning, three weeks to the day after Melanie disappeared, and
eight weeks before her twenty-fourth birthday, police were able to confirm
to Steve Carpenter that his daughter was dead. Watching the televised press
conference from the Bring-Melanie-Home Headquarters in the Surrey Inn,

Melanie's family and friends listened as police described how her body was
found with several knife wounds and her hands tied behind her back. They
said they believed she had been killed within hours of being abducted. Sobs
and wounded cries rose from the crowd gathered around the television set.

Autopsy results later confirmed that Melanie had been sexually assaulted.
-------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He drove over 10 hours from Calgary to Surrey to lure a victim of whom he had never met./jb

I NOMINATE AUGER FOR CONISDERATION AS BEING THE POSSIBLE KILLER OF KELLY COOK.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 25, 2014, 07:25:25 PM
Family still fighting for justice 30 years after child's murder


http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=220afbf4-e1d4-47a3-8a4c-6ea9961182eb&p=1
article from 2011.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on December 01, 2014, 10:48:34 PM
I hope we will learn more about Garry/Gary Taylor Handlen soon. Was he free on 1981 when Kelly Cook was taken? He's been charged with two murders of adolescent girls in B.C. and was known to travel often between the two provinces. He has a criminal record, apparently for sexual assaults, and is 67 years old now. He has a left part in his hair, and distinctive earlobes. Monica Jack is one of his alleged victims, as is Kathryn-Mary Herbert.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on December 02, 2014, 12:18:34 AM
An older white car was seen when Kathryn-Mary Herbert went missing. Was Handlen free in 1981? Did he have relatives in the standard area? Was gas being stolen from farms around the time of Kelly's abduction and murder?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2014, 12:24:40 PM
The date when this occurred rule him out.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/suspect-in-bc-killings-well-known-to-police-in-70s-as-serial-rapist/ar-BBge164?ocid=AARDHP (http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/suspect-in-bc-killings-well-known-to-police-in-70s-as-serial-rapist/ar-BBge164?ocid=AARDHP)

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on December 02, 2014, 12:30:51 PM
D2, I posted a link and explained that it was highly unlikely that he had escaped or managed to get out on  medical or work leave at the time of the Kelly Cook murder. It is not showing, for some reason. Further, he was arrested in Surrey. I believe police are calling on the public for information that may link him to other highway murders in B.C. and Alberta. 

Also interesting, Kathryn-Mary Herbert's  mother at one time believed that the case was an "inside job": files lost and evidence mishandled to protect someone. Another Terry Arnold? I don't know if she has changed her mind. She had been very outspoken, which is probably a motivating factor in the arrest.

http://www.abbynews.com/news/171234111.html

"Shari Greer
Police continue to deny it was an 'inside job' Go figure."


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on December 07, 2014, 12:19:25 PM
Welcome back Wellwell. I missed your input on the board. You were always "thinking outside the box".

Garry travelled extensively throughout Alberta and BC.  But, we do not know the years.

This is unfortunate.  We have children murdered in Alberta, and the perp never caught, plus a few young women in their late teens, early twenties.

Garry, not only liked children, he also liked young ladies.
we have Tania Murrell, Melissa Jane Letain.  The list goes on. - in Edmonton alone.
All in the 80's. 

He was seen in Minden, Ontario in November.  What compelled him to go to Surrey, BC?  Was it  to look for another victim?  - Or was he escorted to Surrey by Ontario police, and charged by the RCMP with the murders?  No one has ever said.
JB
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jobo on December 07, 2014, 03:48:50 PM
We are all wondering who else Handlen may have murdered.   The timeline on the serial killer thread for him says he was found guilty in1978 and his sentence was reduced to twelve years.   Can we safely say he was in jail in the eighties?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on December 07, 2014, 04:32:05 PM
It appears that we can safely say that Handlen was incarcerated through the eighties. I don't wish to distract from Kelly's thread so will post only the link. There is information in the article which speaks of Handlen's prison terms.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/284504361.html?mobile=true (http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/284504361.html?mobile=true)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on December 07, 2014, 05:35:54 PM
Taken from Timeline on last conviction.

Quote
1978: In September Handlen picked up a hitchhiker near Hope, B.C. He later stopped the car and repeatedly sexually assaulted her. He dragged her by the neck and also placed his thumbs on her throat, choking her. She managed to escape, half naked, and was picked up by a passing motorist. Handlen was sentenced to 18 years, but on appeal that sentence was later reduced to 12 years.
Since his release from prison Handlen has spent time in Edmonton, and more recently, in Minden, Ont.

So he would have been freed in 1991? Note that he spent time in Edmonton
There is a thread for him under Serial Killers in Canada.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7409.msg112649#new
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 24, 2015, 10:37:15 AM
Does anyone know if the composite sketch of Kelly Cook's killer has ever been age-progressed by the RCMP? It is a vague sketch, but what would this man look like in 2015?

If this man is still walking the earth, does he wear cowboy hats or ball caps all the time? Does he have any hair, or is it long gone by now (a sticky point for a man who obviously took pride in the hair of his youth)? Did he grow a mustache/beard? What kind of glasses does he wear? Has he had treatment for the sun damage to his face?  Is he still in Alberta? Does he have children and grandchildren, a wife? Did he get his stocky build from sports...thinking of CTE, which is the subject of much talk now. Is he in a dementia ward, where he might one day talk the truth? Is he a person who is untouchable in some way (prominent family, leader in his community, business and social connections, an informant), as discussed previously in this thread? Would he insist on photo-shopping his skin damage in any photos taken now? Vanity and cockiness seem to be part of this man's persona.

And why, oh why, the reservoirs? Kelly was dumped at Chin, a weapon reported missing by a rancher and believed to be connected to the Peter Sopow and Lorraine McNab murders near Pincher Creek was also found at Chin Reservoir. And on September 13, Victoria Crow Shoe's body was found on the banks of the Oldman River Reservoir.

Does anyone think a man of a certain age would still be capable of harming others in his golden years, or would he teach the tricks of his trade to his offspring?

Today there was a murder in Taber, which reminded me of this thread.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 24, 2015, 11:11:56 AM
Thinking back to what I said a long time ago, there is one way Kelly's abductor/killer could fit the description of being stocky, but about 5'10" and 160 pounds. He could have been very muscular and fit. He may have appeared lighter than his actual weight, due to muscle mass being dense.

He must be feeling pretty smug if he is still alive:  he has gotten away with this for a very long time. If he did it once, he probably did it again. Sooner or later, he'll mess up. The mighty do fall.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 24, 2015, 12:53:11 PM
What if we started over? What if Kelly Cook's murderer is "none of the above"?

I've long wondered if people in the Standard/Hussar area were blinded by the assumption that Clifford Olson took Kelly. Maybe that prevented them from thinking back to who was walking among them in March and April of 1981.

It is possible that "Bill Christensen" chose Kelly not as a second or third choice. Maybe he started looking for girls, and learned that Kelly and her family were new arrivals. They wouldn't recognize him. Another mother might say, "Hey, that's Joe. I saw him at the auction last month." He could have been an occasional visitor to Standard, who mostly spent his time on farms, without stopping in to town. Kelly's dad didn't work in town. He wouldn't have been around the farms. He worked at a gas plant. Definitely not a farmer. It would have been easy for "Bill Christensen" to chitchat for this information back then when people were more trusting.

He may have worn ball caps or cowboy hats most of the time, or wore his hair in a different style. He may never have worn sunglasses, except on that one day. Maybe he grew a beard or mustache after Kelly went missing, or before he abducted her. If he knew people in the area, this might have been enough for them to exclude him as a possibility. They were all thinking it was an outsider. He was, but he wasn't.

Maybe the stop in Hussar was part of his job, some unfinished business he had before he left town.

What would bring someone to town in March and April in 1981? Calving season, a calf auction? Back in those days, cows were bred to calve later in the spring than they are now.

There is something about the composite sketch that is useful: that prominent mark on the left side of his chin. If it was a mole, he may have had it removed after Kelly was murdered. There is a possibility that he still has that distinctive mark, but it's not quite where the sketch shows it.  Maybe it's further back on his jaw, or lower towards his neck. He'd probably have jowls now that he's anywhere from about 64 to 74 years old. People gain weight with age. Sun damage is cumulative, so he may have had treatments.

Montana and Taber have been discussed. What's in Montana? Cattle. He might have been familiar with Taber, and visited there too, for work, but he may not have lived there. Too close to the Chin Reservoir for comfort. He was familiar with Chin. He felt no need to conceal Kelly's body permanently, just long enough for him not to be around when she was found.

He must have known how schools work when he went fishing for information from Kelly's principal. Either he had children, or something else taught him how to work the system. Kelly's principal didn't fall for it.

He could manipulate. He had an ego, thus the brusque manners. He wasn't distinctive enough for people to look at him and think, "stranger danger". He could fit in, because he was nothing special appearance-wise. He only thinks he's special.

Does this sound feasible? I'm hearing crickets.





Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 24, 2015, 01:11:19 PM
I wonder if he was a relative of Bill Christianson?  The Christianson family farmed around Chin Lake, and by all accounts were well known.
After all is said, I find it remarkable that those in Standard could not identify this person, who claimed to be Bill Christianson, as a phoney.

One would think that a few people would recognize the real B.C.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 24, 2015, 08:00:26 PM
It may be that he was a relative. Or maybe he went to funerals in the area, or graveyards, to find an identity. He wouldn't have had to go far to find Christiansons. Bill Christianson's family were as close as Bassano and Gem. So many witnesses have passed away by now, or are very elderly. It would be very difficult to remember things that happened so long ago, unless some of them had kept records of visitors for some reason. I suppose this is headed down a cow path, but there's always a chance something will spark a memory.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 25, 2015, 05:27:56 PM
Taber has come up over and over again in this thread. Little Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette, murdered this month in Blairmore, Alberta, was born in Taber.

http://www.fantinsfuneralchapel.ca/notices/Hailey-Lynn-Dunbar-Blanchette

As I've mentioned before, a murder in Taber earlier this week reminded me of Kelly's thread. The murder took place on a farm.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2237962/rcmp-investigate-murder-near-taber/

Do you think the RCMP in 1981 investigated temporary hired hands on nearby farms, especially the various Christianson family farms? Taber would have been far enough away that people in Standard wouldn't know such a person. As was stated long ago, it was seeding time. It may have been the end calving season, too. Being April 22, it is also possible that a university or college student could have finished spring exams and went out looking for work, especially an agriculture student.


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 25, 2015, 05:51:42 PM
What is it about Taber? This article says that back in the early 1980s, the area experienced an influx of newcomers, Mennonites who had left Canada decades earlier in rejection of mandated compulsory provincial education. They began returning from Mexico and South America to escape violence there. Many of these people took up farm work or processing jobs in Canada, but many haven't been on good terms in Taber. Bad manners and uncivil behavior led to a recent bylaw that earned the town national attention.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/tabers-real-target-mennonites/
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 26, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
Quote
OOPS -Kelly Cook was murdered April 22 1981 - Bill was picked up in Montreal April 16, 1981.
  .... looks good on paper

The same could be said about Harvey Andres. He escaped from prison in March 1981 and was back in custody just in time not to have been in Standard on April 22. Looks good on paper.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/no-barber-lack-of-sunlight-band-of-violent-prisoners-suing-over-uncomfortable-conditions-at-saskatchewan-penitentiary

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2012/12/07/convicts_suing_over_uncomfortable_extremes_in_saskatchewan_prison.html
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 26, 2015, 11:47:46 AM
Thinking in terms of the name of Bill Christensen, here is a link to a vicious killer, which has been included in this thread
and discussed.

I am wondering if the killer of Kelly served time with Bill Christensen, and gave his name, not knowing that there was
a family named Christensen in the area.

http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/christenson--william-dean.htm

jb
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jobo on September 26, 2015, 06:05:37 PM
My thinking is that Kelly gladly took the babysitting job, and her parents were not one bit suspicious because the name Christensen was used by the perp, it being a well known name in Standard. But then again, why didn't the parents wonder who exactly this Bill Christensen was?  Or, did they know of a Bill Christensen and just assume it was him?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 27, 2015, 09:29:24 AM
 The Montreal angle to that story is bothersome, because we know that Kelly Cook's family had recently moved to the area from Montreal. There had been a number of young women in Quebec brutally murdered in the late 1970s and early 1980s. One series of murders was attributed to the "Bootlace Killer".
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 27, 2015, 04:53:23 PM
Apparently, if one reads back, Mrs. Cook became alarmed when Kelly did not check in to say that she had arrived safely
at her babysitting job, and called up the Post Mistress.  She asked her if there are any Bill Christiensen's living in the,
in the Standard area, and was told NO. The postmistress would know all of the names of the residents of Standard and area, simply
by mail delivery.

Mrs Cook then became alarmed and called police.

The following may answer many questions about the  BC name.  Apparently, the C family was not known in the Standard area at that time.

The C family were in New Dayton area, not the Standard area.  Just found this out by way of internet checking historical
records.  They did have a connection to Chin reservoir, by way of fishing - as did many others, which is a 2 1/2 hour drive from Standard

The long and the short of it is --- the C family were not known in Standard.

New Daytons citizens would shop in Lethbridge never small town Standard.

That might explain a lot. The name BC in Standard, was just that.... just another name.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: CCF on September 28, 2015, 01:12:06 AM
What if we started over? What if Kelly Cook's murderer is "none of the above"?

I've long wondered if people in the Standard/Hussar area were blinded by the assumption that Clifford Olson took Kelly. Maybe that prevented them from thinking back to who was walking among them in March and April of 1981.

It is possible that "Bill Christensen" chose Kelly not as a second or third choice. Maybe he started looking for girls, and learned that Kelly and her family were new arrivals.

Maybe the stop in Hussar was part of his job, some unfinished business he had before he left town.

What would bring someone to town in March and April in 1981? Calving season, a calf auction? Back in those days, cows were bred to calve later in the spring than they are now.

There is something about the composite sketch that is useful: that prominent mark on the left side of his chin. If it was a mole, he may have had it removed after Kelly was murdered. There is a possibility that he still has that distinctive mark, but it's not quite where the sketch shows it.  Maybe it's further back on his jaw, or lower towards his neck. He'd probably have jowls now that he's anywhere from about 64 to 74 years old. People gain weight with age. Sun damage is cumulative, so he may have had treatments.

Montana and Taber have been discussed. What's in Montana? Cattle. He might have been familiar with Taber, and visited there too, for work, but he may not have lived there. Too close to the Chin Reservoir for comfort. He was familiar with Chin. He felt no need to conceal Kelly's body permanently, just long enough for him not to be around when she was found.

He must have known how schools work when he went fishing for information from Kelly's principal. Either he had children, or something else taught him how to work the system. Kelly's principal didn't fall for it.

He could manipulate. He had an ego, thus the brusque manners. He wasn't distinctive enough for people to look at him and think, "stranger danger". He could fit in, because he was nothing special appearance-wise. He only thinks he's special.

Does this sound feasible? I'm hearing crickets.

Bolded #1: The RCMP have maintained Kelly was not the original target and another girl from Standard was.  This same girl was pictured in the Strathmore paper sometime shortly before the abduction and the killer had seen her in the paper, or so goes their theory.  She was the one the killer called the school about, but after getting his bluff called by the principal, he somehow got her number another way.  If I remember correctly (a lot of this info is in "Part 1"), she was called to babysit April 18th but was unable to do so.  When the caller asked if she could refer anyone, she brought up Kelly's name and passed along her number.  The odd thing was, she wasn't called until the morning of the 22nd...this is where I think this guy, as you suggest, had family.  The reason I think this is when you Google a 1981 calendar, April 17th -19th was Easter weekend, with the 20th being Easter Monday.  He had to have made those calls to the school sometime that week from the 13th-16th.  Four days between the calls to babysit I always found odd...was he doing recon on Kelly to see if she was his "type" or was he just plain busy with his regular life and knew he'd be in the area again later that week.

Bolded #2: Due to drought that summer and the high use of irrigation, the reservoir's water levels dropped substantially.  Her body was found about 200 meters to the east of the highway bridge and I can't recall how far off shore it was (where the shore would have been normally).  It was two teenagers dirt biking through the mud that found her body.  Due to the state of decomposition, the examiner believed she was placed there not long after she disappeared.  Interestingly enough, I posted this article quite some time ago on this site that a man going by "Peter" started calling girls in Canmore to babysit, but none could.  His M.O. was exactly that of Kelly's abductor so police wonder if it wasn't the same individual.  As this article was published Friday, September 11, 1981, it makes reference in the opening paragraph the girls were called Saturday...it is safe to presume that would have been the preceding Saturday, which was September 5th and also, the September long weekend.  If it was the same person, he liked making his initial calls on Saturdays of long weekends, or so it seems.

(https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9HNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aH4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=6329,185372&dq=kelly+cook+body&hl=en)



The following may answer many questions about the  BC name.  Apparently, the C family was not known in the Standard area at that time.

The C family were in New Dayton area, not the Standard area.  Just found this out by way of internet checking historical
records.  They did have a connection to Chin reservoir, by way of fishing - as did many others, which is a 2 1/2 hour drive from Standard

The long and the short of it is --- the C family were not known in Standard.

New Daytons citizens would shop in Lethbridge never small town Standard.

That might explain a lot. The name BC in Standard, was just that.... just another name.

jb

That is strange, I was always under the impression that surname was (and still is) quite common around there and is why the killer chose that name, to blend in with a more common surname.  There is even a trucking company based out of Standard named "Christensen Carriers" (irrelevant I know, but the name is the same).  A poster by the name of AaronP referenced these "Alberta Report" articles in Part 1.  According to them, the Christensen name was quite common around there.  Was the reporter over-exaggerating how common the name was then? "30 families" for that area does seem on the large side.

Quote
I referenced the following articles re: the lead-up to the abduction of Kelly Cook:

(1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p.48

(2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35

(3) Alberta.com news article, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"


'The tragic story actually began to unfold in March 1981 when a man telephoned the principal of the local school requesting information about a particular student, not Kelly. When the principal refused to comply, the man hung up. Then, on April 18, four days before the abduction, a local 17-year-old girl received a call from a man identifying himself as Bill Christensen. He asked her if she could babysit. The teenager said she couldn't but gave him the names of Kelly and another friend'. (3)

' At 8:20 a.m. on April 22, the telephone rang in the Cook house. Kelly answered, but nobody was there. Less than five minutes later the phone rang a second time and it was Bill Christensen asking her to babysit that night. Police suspect the first call was made from a country telephone booth outside a Shell service station several kilometres outside of town. The phone worked by inserting a quarter after the person being phoned answered and police speculated that the man didn't know how it worked and then walked inside the service station. On the way inside, he asked a trucker if he could use the office phone. The trucker suggested he ask the service station owner'. (3) '... service station attendant Lee Abbott was able to provide the RCMP with their only lead'. (1)

'The caller arranged to pick her up at 8 p.m. and bring her home by midnight, the curfew set by her parents for mid-week babysitting jobs, Miss Cook told a fellow student Cindy Krabsen, 16. Since she didn't recognize the voice, she had asked him if he knew where she lived. He reassured her by providing the names of her next door neighbours. But Miss Cook was uneasy. She had never heard of a Bill Christensen, although there are some 30 families in Standard with that surname. "She was asking quite a few people about him," recalls Miss Krabsen. "By the end of the day, she must have been anxious. Nobody knew who he was." Marion Cook recalled that her daughter, who had maintained an average exceeding 80% this year, completed her homework after school so she would be free in the evening'. (1)

'A man fitting the suspect's description was believed to have been in a hotel bar in Standard April 22. An informant told police the man used the phone in the bar, bought a case of beer, and left'. (2)

*** If the details listed in the above quoted articles are true and accurate, it would seem the killer was doing recon...it states he recited the Cook's next door neighbours to put Kelly at ease.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 28, 2015, 02:29:42 PM
CCF. Thanks for your post.  I did some further research and yes, two C brothers left St. Paul Minn. in 1914 and bought up land in Standard District.

BC may have known that there were no Bill C's in the area. Perhaps C's by other names but no Bill.  Perhaps??
And he must have done further research, as how did he know the name of the Cook's next door neighbour?

Meticulously planned.   Why?
Was the thrill in the investigating, planning and executing?

jb
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jobo on September 28, 2015, 04:21:40 PM
This  "Bill Christensen" may have gotten a hold of a phone book from Standard and both Christensen and Cook begin with "c", he may have noticed both families lived on the same street; then used that new found knowledge to further trap Kelly into believing this babysitting job was legit.
The phone books from the small towns were pretty small...
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on September 30, 2015, 08:50:01 PM
I keep going back to the reservoir issue. Was Kelly dumped in the reservoir as a symbol of something meaningful to the person who killed her? He didn't carelessly dump her at the water's edge. He took a great deal of care in the way he did this. If he was from the area, he would have known about the droughts if the early 80s. He would have known the water levels would drop once irrigation began. It could be that he wanted her found, when he was long gone, and he wanted people to see how he had treated her. Why a reservoir, and why this one? There are rivers and lakes. Why not a deep lake?

It wasn't until later that another reservoir was built, after the irrigation crisis worsened in 1982.

http://www.uleth.ca/vft/Oldman_River/OldmanDam.html

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on January 30, 2016, 04:16:01 PM
Attached are two pictures: one of Kelly Cook's gravestone, and the other of the entrance to the Standard Cemetery where Kelly's body lies. Google Maps has been expanded, and you can now take a 'trip' through the streets of Standard. On the Google Map, you can see a cul-de-sac on the east side of town, and that's where Kelly lived. Here's the Google map hyperlink:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Standard,+AB+T0J/@51.1107076,-112.9931992,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x5373b2a79a6afbf5:0x39e6678bd97bdf2a

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 31, 2016, 01:24:22 PM
was that main street named Christian back then Aaron?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 03, 2016, 09:02:40 AM
as I digress back into thread 1 on Kelly, I still think I have to put my money on Obie Chandler (drifter from south of the border) alias/es Jimmy Wright Jr. and Oba Leiby.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on April 23, 2016, 06:56:45 PM
There are also videos at the link.

April 21, 2016 4:34 pm   Updated: April 21, 2016 4:43 pm   
 
High profile homicide of Alberta teen Kelly Cook remains unsolved after 35 years

By Nancy Hixt    
Crime Reporter  Global News


For 35 years, the family of Kelly Cook has waited for answers. Decades have come and gone, but still, the 15-year-old’s death remains a mystery.

Marnie Kathol is Kelly’s younger sister. She fights back tears whenever she talks about her loss.

“I feel ripped off,” Kathol said. “I feel my family has been ripped off…and my family now–my children.”

“It’s shocking that we’re still sitting here 35 years later still talking about it, with no more answers than we had 35 years ago basically.”

April 22, 1981 started out like a normal day in the small farming community of Standard, Alta., about 70 kilometres northeast of Calgary.

Kelly got a phone call from a man using the name Bill Christensen, who said he wanted a babysitter. Another girl had turned him down, and gave him Kelly’s number.

Hours later, a car showed up at the Cook family home. That was the last time Kelly was seen alive.

“I remember going to bed and waking up probably after midnight and the police were already there,” Kathol said.

The RCMP started their investigation just four hours after Kelly was taken.

For weeks, searchers scoured rural properties and outbuildings.

Two months later, Kelly’s body was found in an irrigation canal south of Taber. She had to be identified through dental records.

“We have a lot of questions, but it’s kind of scary to think that we might one day have the answers, and they might not be what we are looking for.”

Investigators have worked tirelessly on the case for decades.

There’s a special room dedicated to the files for the Cook homicide, it’s filled to the roof with boxes and boxes of evidence.

More than 2,000 possible suspects have been looked at, and police confirm the investigation remains active.

RCMP believe this was a well-planned crime.

They have a sketch of the man they believe is responsible, but no arrests have ever been made.

“It’s just life now,” said Kathol. “It’s just what we’ve had to learn to live with. There’s no acceptance in it, there’s no ‘closure,’ if you want to use that word.”

While the Cook family has always hoped for justice, after 35 years, they say the thought of an arrest is almost as scary as living with the mystery.

“If it all changed tomorrow and we had all those answers, I don’t know if any of us are prepared for that. Justice makes that individual accountable, but it doesn’t bring her home, it doesn’t change it.”

A $100,000 reward is being offered by the Village of Standard for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Kelly’s killer. Anyone with information is asked to call the Serious Crimes Branch South Airdrie “K” (AB) Division at 403-420-4900 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2654704/high-profile-homicide-of-alberta-teen-kelly-cook-remains-unsolved-after-35-years/ (http://globalnews.ca/news/2654704/high-profile-homicide-of-alberta-teen-kelly-cook-remains-unsolved-after-35-years/)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 23, 2016, 07:29:04 PM
since this is an addition continuing thread, I will go ahead and repeat myself... anyone reading can refer to the previous thread for more information.    this is my final opinion/guess on who could have killed Kelly.  I would dearly love to know how authorities have not looked further into this.  http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.1005

 So far.. only one image still holds as suspect:

look at this suspect pic... then look at the pics of Chandler over the years. 

...my guess is that when Chandler escaped the prison work/road crew in 1977, he fled North to Canada. ... he was doing time for stealing a car belong to jewelry workers containing almost a million in jewels. (he was sentenced to 10 yrs. but escaped and became a fugitive.  Now how could a fugitive with so "distinct" an appearance and demeanor, remain free for years? (especially in a small place like Florida, where we are suppose to believe he was hanging out at the time)  I suspect because he managed to arm himself with information during his short 5-months in prison ... arranged the escape, and then organized his "underground existence" with those authorities who aided and abetted him for at least 10 yrs. after.  (he was definitely cocky and capable enough - just as was the demeanor and bold arrogance of Kelly's killer in Standard in 1981.)  I suspect Chandler made his way to Canada after this escape in 1971 (maybe even supplied with a plane ticket - that would explain his deep involvement with Customs and authorities!)  I think his possible cocky luring of the figure skater - that led to Kelly becoming the victim, was just a crime of boredom and opportunity while Chandler was sitting around waiting for return to the states to resume his life in the pockets of, and under the protection of his accomplice - custom authorities for whom he was exchanging information and favors. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 24, 2016, 09:14:28 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oba_Chandler  ... strangely enough, I find Chin Lake/s the exact type of place Chandler would dispose of a victim... and using a boat!  I doubt he would stop to think of the water level dropping at a certain time of year... or even care, for that matter.  ..this spot would appeal to him... especially if he was hanging out in a cabin or hotel near by.  If you think this theory is far fetched; consider this:  LE could never find such a matching suspect in Alberta all these years .... Why?  maybe; because the killer was in and out of the area all within weeks ... just cooling his heels while planning to move back to the US!

Chandler's mo is uncanny ... just like Kelly's killer: 
Quote
Oba had a place next to his house where the scrap aluminum from the different jobs would be left. There were also some eight-by-sixteen building blocks laying there and a boat trailer.

http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c1/chandler-oba.htm
I am modifying this post October,2017 in hopes of replacing some (now missing) photos, or at least substituting similar in regard to Chandler's M.O.  ... here are pictures of him at various times and also a picture of the ropes cut off the cement blocks used to dispose of three of his victims.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 25, 2016, 04:37:20 PM
Is it possible that Terry Arnold and Oba Chandler met up at some point?

Both had ties to Florida. Many travelling midways were and are based in Florida. Chandler attacked a Canadian in Florida in 1989, which contributed to his arrest for the triple murder of an Ohio mother and her daughters. All three were disposed of in a manner similar to Kelly.  I have not read of Chandler visiting a funeral home or hospital to see his victims.

Terry Arnold had worked in a restaurant in Florida, according to an article by the Calgary Herald's Suzanne Wilton, posted in the first thread here.

Snowbirds from Canada travelled to the U.S. for the winter even then, although in Western Canada, Arizona was probably the more popular choice.

Another point: Arnold had family in Bentley, Alberta at some point. Bentley is near Gull Lake. Kelly was dumped in another body of water, at Chin. Someone travelling west on Highway 1 may have taken a shortcut through Standard on the way over to Highway 21 and then up to Bentley. It would be faster to  head straight up Highway 21 from Highway 1, but people sometimes make stops for their own reasons. Chandler used his boat in rape and murder.

So there are common threads  and differences. Could Oba Chandler have come to Canada to meet Terry Arnold? Did they work together? Arnold was paid in cash when he worked in the U.S. (and worked under an assumed identity) and Americans could probably do the same here, back in those days. Crossing the border was much easier. The American investigators said that they expect to learn more about Chandler's crimes from 1963 on, in the coming years.

Food for thought.





Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2016, 06:15:27 PM
I don't post here often any more but do understand that interest in most any cold case increases on anniversary dates. I have always hoped for more here..

Thanks for collecting and posting the article Deb, makes me wonder motives for some statements at times..
Quote
RCMP believe this was a well-planned crime.

wellwell you did a good job trying to put things together. A couple of points in regard : Chandler using the boat, victim bodies were dumped in deepest water weighed down. Kelly was found mere feet from shore. Would be a strange thing to do if a boat was being used. April in Alberta towing a boat sticks out like sore thumb. Florida.. not so.. etc..

From a little known time frame, Barb Stoppel and Terry Arnold travelled with the fair from Winnipeg to Armstrong BC during the late summer of 1980. Arnold drove the car in which Barb travelled along with a couple of others. Barb said that they had stopped at a Lake believed to be along the way somewhere in southern Alberta where they had watered the animals. She liked the place and wanted to go swimming except for the unwanted attention being directed at her by T. Arnold at the time.. I suspect it may have been Chin Lake. Barb went on to say that Arnold had even asked her for the photo she kept of herself in figure skater outfit.. He was obsessed..

This point could probably be confirmed if it mattered but I think it is over as far as T. Arnold is concerned no matter what more should surface.

Truly sad for Kelly for it is only the truth that everyone wants now.. Maybe there was a partnership of sorts at the time that has skewed the investigation outlook? I do question whether the following statement is more due the inability of the Police to "solve" the case than what is indicated by the actual facts..
Quote
RCMP believe this was a well-planned crime.
[/b]
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 25, 2016, 07:32:21 PM
I have never heard this before re. Arnold: 
Quote
From a little known time frame, Barb Stoppel and Terry Arnold travelled with the fair from Winnipeg to Armstrong BC during the late summer of 1980. Arnold drove the car in which Barb travelled along with a couple of others. Barb said that they had stopped at a Lake believed to be along the way somewhere in southern Alberta where they had watered the animals. She liked the place and wanted to go swimming except for the unwanted attention being directed at her by T. Arnold at the time.. I suspect it may have been Chin Lake. Barb went on to say that Arnold had even asked her for the photo she kept of herself in figure skater outfit
.. He was obsessed.. that sure explains Barb Stoppel's murder ... and sure points to a fantasy Arnold was obsessed with.. .. enough to plan the abduction of the blonde figure skater, but I can't help but think Arnold was too obsessed with that particular image, to settle for an unseen substitute, whereas Chandler wasn't so specific.


If it was Chandler, he could have chose that spot also, because he didn't have access to a boat.  The fact that he always seemed to carry concrete blocks and restraints indicated to me that he always used them on his victims.  Another thing I gathered from Chandler's crimes is the fact that he didn't rape all his victims... sometimes he just blew up and killed them for "resisting" ... or maybe because then ended up not appealing to him that much at the last minute for whatever reason.  But the actions of Kelly's killer are right on with Chandlers mo, in my opinion.  I think there is enough reason to, at least, trace Chandler's movements from his escape of the work prison in Florida up to Kelly's murder.  He made trips back and forth to Ohio from Florida a lot.... that came to light when his daughters testified.  Ohio is a stones throw from Ontario... and I can see Chandler going west for some big money for a few weeks, if necessary, to get the means of heading back to Florida.  I still think his escape back in 1977 could have been well arranged, either by those he contacted at Customs (with information on drug deliveries .... which he could have overheard or was told at the prison/work field) or at least by someone else being outside the prison field he was working, waiting to pick him up.  If this was the case, he was already an "untouchable" at borders.  That in itself would make him roam more and further, possibly.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2016, 02:44:21 PM
One further thing about water. When Denise Lapierre of Calgary was found murdered in 1987 in an alley near the house where Arnold was living, it was reported that she was wet and had been recently washed.

Kelly Cook was fully clothed, we are told, but found in water.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2016, 03:28:43 PM
Was there any mention of a tow hitch on Kelly's abductor's car? I would like to note that a mid-1970s car like the Olds Cutlass could pull a boat trailer with ease, up a hill.

Boats have gotten bigger and cars and their engines have gotten smaller in the past three decades. If Kelly's killer had been towing a boat around Standard, someone probably would have mentioned it. A tow hitch is not so easily noticed. A boat could be stashed elsewhere.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 26, 2016, 04:03:30 PM
If a boat was used, it may have been an old boat left near by, and frequently used by habitual boaters in the area... probably a row boat;  ... they fit in the back of trucks.  If it was Chandler, he could steal and abandon any vehicle.  I've always wondered if the vehicle Kelly was picked up in, was stolen.  He may have had the use of somebody else's vehicle.  ... especially if he was working a few weeks in the area and staying at a camp or boarding house.  He was very pragmatic and capable... he could do this undetected.  As we all know, the inexperienced police wouldn't be thinking that far outside the box, in order to suspect drifting workers and check into boarding facilities and camps.  The availability of such a vehicle for someone like Chandler is endless.  ... this could explain the dead end in investigating strangers in the area.  If he found temporary employment in his trade, he may have had access to such a vehicle from a business owner.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2016, 06:25:30 PM
Many farms back in those days still had bunkhouses. They weren't being used any more, as equipment had gotten bigger and better, replacing the harvesting crews. Most of those bunkies have fallen down by now or were torn down.

Also, the CPR had bunkhouses for crews. Some of these were just big enough for one of two men. I'm not sure if they were still around by the early 80s.

A drifter could have found shelter easily enough off the beaten path.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2016, 09:09:38 PM
I know that farmers in this area sometimes had a problem with strangers coming onto their property at night, trying to steal farm gas. They had yard lights, and  some close to the highway fenced off either their road, the farm equipment and gas tank, or the entire farmyard. Large farm dogs were the norm, too. 

If a drifter stole a car, the car would need gas -- stolen, too.

You're right about some farmers renting out their extra space during the winter months, lostlinganer, and they were much closer than Wetaskiwin.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 27, 2016, 11:03:28 AM
I have come to believe that this case will only be solved by a wife, ex-wife or adult child of the perp coming forward. 

The only other possibility I see is if family members were able to apply for sealed information under the FOI act.

This case is not under local RCMP jurisdiction as it once was. K Division (Serious Crimes) in Airdrie is the contact.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cc-afn/cook-kelly-eng.htm
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on April 27, 2016, 08:59:10 PM
Can anyone tell me if the Florida prosecutors or police who investigated the Rogers family murders are aware of the Kelly Cook case? They would be the best source of information about Oba Chandler. The state governor signed the documents to execute Chandler after reviewing Chandler's dossier. Did the dossier give his whereabouts in April 1981?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 27, 2016, 10:11:06 PM
very good point wellwell.
 8)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on April 29, 2016, 06:16:22 PM
From Chandler's Murderpedia site, this picture following shows how he looked in 1981. I tried in the past and also today again, to try and find out what he was up to in 1981 but there really doesn't seem to be anything on the Net whether he was traveling near Canada.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 30, 2016, 05:07:37 PM
take a look at this guy:  http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/06/02/historic-sexual-assault-trial-begins-for-former-calgary-cop-steve-huggett-court-hears-victims-testimony   I wonder if this "serve and protect wonder" had an dealings of affiliations in Standard back in 1981? 

www.calgarysun.com/.../historic-sexual-assault-trial-begins-for-former-calgary-cop-st...


Jun 2, 2015 - Steve Huggett, former Calgary cop, begins new sex assault trial ... The trial for a former Calgary police officer Stephen Huggett accused of sexually abusing a young ... said to involve a seven-year-old girl in Calgary on Tuesday June 2, 2015. ... Defence counsel Alain Hepner will decide Wednesday whether ...

More on Huggett:  glad I ran into this stuff          Charges have been dropped by the Crown against an ex-city cop who was accused of  sexually assaulting and harassing an ex-girlfriend, as well as possession of child pornography.

Stephen Lawrence Huggett, 60, was scheduled to go to trial on Wednesday, but provincial court Judge Anne Brown was advised by prosecutor Jenny Rees that she had withdrawn the charges because the alleged victim had passed away.

A publication ban protects the identity of the woman.

Huggett, who retired from the Calgary Police Service in 2007 after 25 years on the force, was previously convicted and jailed for nine months on child pornography charges in 2009.

He had faced trial this week on one count each of sexual assault with a firearm, extortion and unlawfully harassing the woman between Feb. 1, 2010, and Dec. 31, 2011.

Huggett, however, still faces a trial in June on allegations involving sexual abuse of a seven-year-old girl. The molestation incidents are alleged to have happened in the early 1990s after the man met the girl’s mother, police say.

Police began investigating in 2001, but didn’t have enough evidence to lay charges at the time, officials say.

“Mr. Huggett was relieved these charges were withdrawn,” defence lawyer Alain Hepner said Wednesday. “We will now proceed to June for those charges.”

Huggett remains on bail on strict conditions pending his upcoming trial.

The now-deceased complainant, who was in an on-again, off-again relationship with Huggett that ended in 2012, first contacted police accusing him of showing up at her home repeatedly following their breakup, court heard during a bail hearing.

Rees told court at the time the woman advised investigators that Huggett forced her on six occasions to have sex against her will and put a pistol in her mouth.

The woman said she didn’t know if the gun was loaded.

The woman also told police Huggett was fixated on children, and would make her place a picture of a child’s face over hers during sex. When she refused to do so, he slapped her in the face, Rees said.

The complainant also claimed to have seen images of underage girls on Huggett‘s computer and observing him in video chats with naked young women.

However, Rees said investigators had not turned up any child pornography files during a forensic search of Huggett‘s computer.

At the time of his convictions, Huggett claimed he downloaded images as part of his own effort to investigate child pornography.

As part of his bail conditions, Huggett is also prohibited from any contact with children under 16 and is banned from public places where children may be, including parks, playgrounds, swimming pools, daycares and schools.

dslade@calgaryherald.com

.................  wish he would hold up his slimy head or take of his hat........... he is no stranger to hiding I'd say  .... bet he looked a lot like the last pic back in 1981    - more on page 8
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Have faith on May 30, 2016, 05:28:19 PM
Quote:

"I have been trying to log into this site for a long time now. It wouldn't let me log back on after verifying my email address."

Over time, I've read new posters who say that they have had trouble logging into UC, and finally got in.  Is seems that there a problem with the site in this regard. 

I'm not sure what Debbie can do about it, but it appears to be a recurring problem.  It might explain why there are so few guests or new members contributing.  JMO





 

I
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 30, 2016, 06:44:27 PM
jb... wantingtohelp;  you guys please tell me which picture you think is a dead ringer.... the one removed, or the one I put up????
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on May 30, 2016, 06:47:04 PM
wantingtohelp
Quote
Now that I'm on here I can tell you, the only other option is to report a person and I never wanted to do that.

It is hard to know what to do isn't it?  One is afraid to - in case they are wrong - oh lots of things swirl around in one's head.

It is best to be extremely careful as to what is said on this new development, as this is a very public board and at this point we don't want to get in the way of  things for the cops.
The law is very fussy about such things.

Let us hope that something comes out of this.  And thank you so much for sharing.

You can always pm me or other members, if you wish to discuss further.

And by the way ----- Welcome to Unsolved. Sorry that you had to keep trying to get on here.
You are probably right - there must be a glitch.

D1, has been working on this file for years, lostlinger is another one, debbiec.  There are a good number of us that you can pm.
jb

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 30, 2016, 07:59:05 PM
well you guys at your end can rely on this site for help when possible wanting!  just stay grounded and take it a day at a time.  .... seems like what is meant to be, is "on course".  don't get discouraged.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on May 30, 2016, 08:02:21 PM
For the first time in years, it is on course. I was determined to get on here to share what I could, as you have all been posting for years :)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 30, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
many of the old crew have passed away or disappeared; but the ones who have messaged you and responded to you today never desert an unsolved case, ever!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on May 30, 2016, 09:37:19 PM
The only way to send a picture would be if you were to send a private message and include a link.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 30, 2016, 10:13:36 PM
... wrapping this day up folks;  this is day 8 of recovery for a back injury I received last long weekend.  I am suppose to be either standing or laying until all pain is gone..... no sitting at all!  well I have to sit to use the computer.... so I am in a lot of pain... tomorrow's another day. I do have a back brace coming though.      'night all!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on May 31, 2016, 05:57:32 PM
Get well soon Lost. Hope back brace works for you. Darn falls will do it every time.

Try suction cups on your slippers - to keep you grounded. I could use a pair myself.lol

Take care

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 31, 2016, 07:28:17 PM
actually jb... I did the damage last weekend gardening... ground was too hard.... garden fork and shovel!  too much impact!  Thanks for the well wishes.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on May 31, 2016, 08:05:40 PM
OUCH!! :-[

JB
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on June 02, 2016, 04:23:19 PM
I was thinking about this the other day.  Doubt if they have any dna.  Kelly, by all reports, was found in the water fully clothed.

However, if there is a picture of the possible "suspect", there is the bartender, and the waitress at the restaurant who may recognize him.  And potentially his voice.
Cops would have to track them down, if still living.
Was she not weighted down with a concrete block and a rope?  Perhaps the type of knot would also help.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 12, 2016, 11:58:35 AM
It is my belief that Kelly's killer has a criminal history that finally caught up to him. He may never serve time for Kelly's murder, unless someone from his past -- an ex, a sibling, a former friend -- speaks up. Even though he has likely been incarcerated by now for something or another, and may be in jail presently, Kelly's family needs answers. If someone has unresolved questions from the past, now is the time to bring them forward for the Cook family, before the answers are lost forever to time. It is entirely likely that this person has kept his past secret from those few currently left in his life. This is why his past needs to be exposed.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 14, 2016, 04:08:11 PM
In all the years on this thread, and after comparing dozens of possible suspect/s images to the "original composite drawing", and researching the history and profiles of all those suspects, I ended up putting my money on William Dean Christenson (yep... what a coincidence!) ... because he looks exactly like I would have pictured the composite sketch if it was (in the flesh)... also because there is so much evidence that points to him in profile.  .. but it has been decided that he couldn't possibly be Kelly's killer because he was in jail in Montreal when she was killed (or so we are to believe) but given the fact that his father and mother were supplying him with money and alibies for years and years, and the fact that his father was a high ranking CIA official with the power to change paperwork and dates, that "in jail at the time" doesn't wash with me at all.  ... so I had still a mind set as him being the best match for Kelly's killer.   

Last week, behind the scenes here, we may have come up with another suspect (name unknown, life story unknown, but a "dead ringer" for the original composite with a matching age and timeline ... more to come on that;  so I have to face that I may again, be changing my "bet".   

 - However, last week, I cam across another "dead ringer" for the composite sketch of 1981 ....and yet again, he is a perfect match for what I expect that suspect would look like now ... so awaiting further developments on the second (unpublicized) suspect, and now digging news archives and trying to find out where and how this third consideration existed back in 1981, and before he became a cop,  I find myself now considering this third potential match.  The face is right on imo. ..but cannot find anymore information as of yet, on this guy.  He is Stephen Huggett, ex cop from Calgary.  I sure would like to know what he was doing back in /81..    So take a look:  You can read the details on the following link.  btw, it is scarey to think this guy was kept on the force after 2007.  I suppose he was an "effective cop" aside from this, in the eyes of the force"  ... Once you see this list of sex offenders, you start to realize, we don't know half of what is out there getting away with this savagery most of their lives. http://stoppedophiles.ca/convicted-AB.html
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 15, 2016, 09:08:28 AM
from wellwell:  this is so true:

It is my belief that Kelly's killer has a criminal history that finally caught up to him. He may never serve time for Kelly's murder, unless someone from his past -- an ex, a sibling, a former friend -- speaks up. Even though he has likely been incarcerated by now for something or another, and may be in jail presently, Kelly's family needs answers. If someone has unresolved questions from the past, now is the time to bring them forward for the Cook family, before the answers are lost forever to time. It is entirely likely that this person has kept his past secret from those few currently left in his life. This is why his past needs to be exposed.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on June 19, 2016, 04:05:36 PM

The following hyperlink contains news videos about the Kelly Cook case dating from 2011 & 2016. In both videos, Kelly's sister Marnie is interviewed:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2654704/high-profile-homicide-of-alberta-teen-kelly-cook-remains-unsolved-after-35-years/

Some salient points include the following:

- Marnie says the Cook family has no more information re: the crime, or who is responsible for it, than was the case in 1981 (35 years ago).

- By 1990, RCMP had interviewed up to 2,200 possible murder suspects.

- No arrests have ever been made in this case.

- RCMP confirm the case has always remained active (i.e., not closed as was the case with the Christine Jessop and Elizabeth Bain unsolved murder cases in Ontario).

- A special RCMP file room is devoted to the Cook case, containing many boxes of hard-copy records concerning the investigation over the years.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on June 19, 2016, 07:05:53 PM
Thank you AronP. I watched the videos and they are heartbreaking.

Here is a further description of the killer, taken from one of your clippings from the Calgary Herald.

Quote
The tanned and heavy-chested man is described as having "abrupt mannerisms."
Recalling the chain of events Green says, "he walks directly up to the bar and almost demands to use the telephone. He makes the call, buys a case of beer and gets annoyed about his change and leaves without even saying thank you."

Further description of the killer as per AaronP news article posts

RCMP Inspector George Foulon says investigators want to speak with a man who visited a Calgary funeral parlor last July where Cook's body was being held after an autopsy before it was shipped to Standard. Foulon told The Herald that the man walked into the funeral home during the early evening of July 2 claiming to be a friend of the Cook family and "requested to view the body." He was told he could not and he left.

The Cook family has told police they were unaware of any friends of theirs who had tried to view the body in the Calgary funeral home. Nor was it public knowledge that the body was in the funeral home. He [Foulon] described the man as being in his mid to late 30s, about five feet, 11 inches tall and 165 to 170 pounds. He was heavy set and had a tanned complexion.


Taken from AaronP's reasonings as to description of killer

Quote
but in rural Alberta back in the early 1980s, the populace was very largely white and aboriginal. I'm sure if the man making a phone call on the morning of April 22, 1981, had had a Mexican accent and looked Hispanic, that would have been included in the description of the suspect. Remember that the police, as per eyewitness reports, have always described this man as being a white Caucasian (although the description alludes to him being tanned).
 People don't just show up in Standard out of nowhere. They speculated or had heard rumors that the culprit was from the Taber area, travelled about southern Alberta with something to do with the farming industry, and may have participated in seeding and calving during busy times (which would give him intimate knowledge of the back roads around Standard). Granted, this is all just speculation or rumors, certainly not the bona fide facts,

Taken from other posters
Had some knowledge of the area.

 I also heard this person they think did it often traveled around the area with something to do with the farming industry in some form. This is all rumours but it has been going around Standard for many years.

Chin Lakes it not a random place where you just stumble across you have to KNOW that area.

Taken from AaronP
Since anyone can say whatever they want on a site like this, I prefer to believe that which can be substantiated through external sources such as newspaper articles. As for Kelly Cook's body, I posted this earlier, but here's the facts (Alberta Report magazine, July 10, 1981, p. 36):

'The body had deteriorated so much that Calgary's medical examination office was unable to determine how, or when, Kelly Cook died. Bound at the hands and feet by ropes, the girl's body had been anchored to the bottom of the lake by two concrete blocks. It had been dumped several yards from shore and about 200 yards from the highway bridge. An RCMP spokesman in Lethbridge explained that the body was finally discovered because the level of Chin Lake had dropped significantly in the past few weeks, leaving it exposed.'

In 1989, in the Calgary Herald (have no date or article title at my fingertips), I do recall reading that authorities said she died of asphyxiation.

-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My small input/jb
I also recall reading that he wore his glasses on top of his head. - small point in the mix of things. We also know that he like to drink beer, but by reports, it appears to me that he did not drink to excess while in Standard.  We also know that he counted change from the bartender.  (He was a "penny counter"]  No doubt never tipped./jb

So far we have a

 tanned and heavy-chested man[/b] is described as having "abrupt mannerisms."
in his mid to late 30s, about five feet, 11 inches tall and 165 to 170 pounds. He was heavy set and had a dark complexion.
Drank beer, but did not drink to excess while in Standard
Played pool -
Wore his glasses on top of his head.
Preferred regular phones - did not like pay phones (or was unfamiliar with them) eg. demanded to use bar telephone.
or imo did not like to spend the money on them (once again cheap!)

If anyone else can add anything about this killer - please do.

jb
 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 19, 2016, 07:27:36 PM
for sure.... I agree ... anything that describes him... appearance, mannerism, neat or sloppy, anything about his walk? what he bought... all help paint a picture.   
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on June 19, 2016, 11:03:10 PM
I am shocked that there was no description given of his vehicle, nor what type of clothing that he wore, as{ he} it is believed, had made prior trips to Standard - before he made his move.
If he was into calving, or farming, would he not wear a cowboy type hat or something like it?
And --- would he not wear cowboy boots?
Wasn't that the general country garb worn by men in that area, for that type of work?
And her sister said "a car pulled up" - odd that he did not drive a truck.... the most common type of vehicle for those parts - if he went from farm to farm.
Is it possible that he was not involved in any of this type of work, as suggested?
Taber is a 2 hour drive to Standard.  I am wondering if he lived closer, say ---- Brooks.
Brooks is only a one hours drive away.  Close enough to Standard, but far enough away not to be easily recognized.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 01, 2016, 09:17:40 PM
Let me ask you all something:

If, back in 1981, when the suspect composite was produced and put to the public (hypothetically) do you think if calls came into the police/RCMP saying that face was "so and so" from "wherever".... and "so and so" turned out to be the son, or nephew, or brother of a local judge, lawyer, doctor, or politician with a few important seats in council... with lots of holdings, clout, and political affiliation .... and he was from a small town, do you actually think he would have been considered for this murder, or if he was, do you actually think such investigation would be made public, or ever be carried out by those in charge of the investigation at the time?  I say NO!
 
In addition to that, I say that such deliberate sweeping under the rug at that time, would have to be kept the same today.... even if someone came forward today and claimed that was their family member's face..... even if that person (suspect) ended up being found guilty of sexual assault and violence perpetrated on others in the same time period of Kelly's murder (because the crime was on his own family member/s, who followed through on their own in court without backing down) do you think the authorities would look at such a suspect now, 35 yrs. later? 

I say the authorities will still sweep it under the rug today, because they did so back then and such a perp. would have that on those in charge of investigating or "not investigating" him all these years.  What do you think? 
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jobo on July 06, 2016, 02:18:51 AM
In reply to your question, lostlinganer...YES, I do think that the authorities back in the eighties would/could have downplayed any tips, if they pointed towards someone "important".
Look at the disgraced colonel....Police didn't think they needed to knock on his door when they were canvassing the neighbourhood.........and that happened not too many years ago.
Glad to see you sent your info along.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 06, 2016, 09:51:52 AM
good example jobo;  when searching his neighborhood, it was just assumed it couldn't be Col. Russell Williams.... the age-old practice of "double standards" and layered society has let more than one murderer go free.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on July 25, 2016, 02:56:36 PM
I was hoping that law enforcement would take this tip seriously, and run with it to the fullest, or at least acknowledge receiving it.

This is more than disappointing..... No wonder people do not come forward...
The blame falls squarely on law enforcement's shoulders - at least in this case.
Tell me, what is wrong with acknowledging a person's tip? Surely, that is the very least that law enforcement can do...

If law enforcement wants to hear from its citizens regarding a case, the very least they can do, is to let the person who calls in a tip - know that they have received it.

Is that asking too much? 

How many times have police turned to the public for tips, and or witnesses?
Many, many times - and solving crimes often depends upon the public.
And as to law enforcements attitude about receiving tips,  in getting down to basics, the acknowledgement shows respect to the person sending it.  A simple thank you is all that is required. And of course FOLLOW IT UP.

If anyone reading this knows Marnie Cook, please let her know, then perhaps she may  get in touch with Lostlinganer on Unsolved Canada. That is - if she so wishes to.

Good going Lost.

thanks.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on July 26, 2016, 10:40:48 AM
Wantingtohelp, be very careful what information you post on here regarding your own relatives ... who has the goods on the perp, who the person is, etc. I know the people who have posted on this thread have Kelly's best interest at heart, however there are many readers and there will be times when the perpetrators also read and get involved. Not that long ago we entertained a man (who was trying to blacken the name of a victim and gave false reports)who turned out to be the cold blooded killer. So for your sake, protect yourself and your family, or the people who have the info.
That said, I would say to keep hounding the police and get your foot in the door for an interview and as you said regarding a crime reporter ... may be a great idea b/c they have means to do more investigative work on the info.
Another thought of mine is ... when police are dragging their feet instead of jumping at the bit to get more info ... do they know who the perp is? Perhaps they do and just don't have the evidence they need for a slam dunk?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on July 26, 2016, 11:09:03 AM
Lost, I don't know what to think anymore regarding this case of Kelly. Family need answers and this child needs to rest in peace. I have no answers why police are not talking to those who have info and all I can stress is that those who have the info to keep at the police, get their foot in the door and don't take it out. Eventually they will hear the person and then they can decide what clicks with whatever evidence they have (if they were not tunnel visioned at the time).

(Lost, Is Windows 10 that much of a hassle? I've considering it since it's free until the end of the month but I don't want the hassles if it doesn't allow quoting, and then what else becomes a problem?) 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 26, 2016, 01:06:14 PM
wantingtohelp;  I am thinking Ms. Hixt, although great with simple documentary, may not be up to dealing with controversy.  Maybe the best thing is to contact a fearless investigative reporter like Gary Dimmock;  he is, or at least was, a member on here.  He does a lot of "free lance" which means he doesn't get told "hands off" by media dictated to by politicians and authorities.  He is one who will investigate behind the scenes before he writes.  I will try to track him down and ask him to consider finding the time to look at the Kelly case in regard to what you know and suspect.  He does have active links on the internet, but it's been a few years since I've followed them, but I will browse this week, and see if he is still as active.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on July 26, 2016, 01:14:39 PM
Wantingtohelp, perhaps talk with this fellow as well. He always went the full mile in crime cases. Jason van Rassel.

http://calgaryherald.com/author/jvanrassel

eta: Jason is a member here and has commented on this case before.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 26, 2016, 01:22:38 PM
good idea wanting;  maybe I'll draft a letter (conservatively) and send it to both these guys.... Will have you ok it first!  Is that ok with you?
Mr. Dimmock is someone I am associated with since years ... he did a lot on Clayton Miller case.  ... the other guy, I might be a little skeptical because of him being in your area, but I am willing to do it.  God bless little Kelly Cook; I wish her family were reading here. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on July 27, 2016, 10:33:29 AM
Wow! Great work Lost and Wantingtohelp! :)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on July 27, 2016, 11:05:06 AM
Well, Wantingtohelp ... you gave Lost the fuel she needed. Lets hope the police will do their part too. Kelly will be smiling down on you all.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 27, 2016, 11:26:33 AM
... keeping in mind, nothing is conclusive;  but cannot help but be cautiously optimistic.  ...we need little Kelly's spirit here with us.  It may not even turn out to be him, but then again...... ~
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 27, 2016, 03:53:08 PM
for now you guys;  all we can say is keep checking here - will let you know as soon as we know.  ... wheels are in motion!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on July 28, 2016, 01:14:31 PM
I've removed the majority of posts that were written in regard posting cautiously, not posting too much information, names, etc. I have left the first one which was posted in that regard (by SAP). 

I have also read through the posts which were written over the last few days and feel that everyone did a good job of removing anything that they felt needed removing. I have not removed any posts other than the ones spoken of above.

Thanks everyone,
Debbie
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on July 28, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
Thanks Debbie
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on July 28, 2016, 01:21:38 PM
YW. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 28, 2016, 02:06:46 PM
I deleted some from the other room.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on July 28, 2016, 08:26:53 PM
If we keep this up there will be nothing left. lol lol.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on July 28, 2016, 08:35:57 PM
Omg!!! I'm snort laughing hahaha so true tho lol
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on July 28, 2016, 08:38:09 PM
Down to 8 pages on this thread!
I'm still giggling
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on July 28, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
Down to 8 pages on this thread!
I'm still giggling


Have you looked at part one of this thread wantingtohelp?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on July 28, 2016, 09:23:03 PM
Yes I read it all. It's been 4 years. I had tried to join this forum a few times over those years.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on July 28, 2016, 10:02:18 PM
I've been doing a lot of research regarding places and people attached to this case.  I just did some browsing of the Husser area in 1980 and  81.  It was uncanny to see that "Christensen" sign post.  I like to get a feeling of a place I'm digging into.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Husser,Alberta,1980&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=-s-aV8fMIoWDmQGC7YbIBA#q=Hussar,Alberta,1980&start=10
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on July 29, 2016, 11:27:23 AM
Yes, the name on the road sign, may have given him the idea.
The police are sure that this was planned over a two month period.
The Christensen name is very well known in Alberta, they are very well respected, and have many business' throughout. So it would not surprise me that the killer of Kelly would use it.
They are a very large family.
He only used the name once, and that was over the phone to drum up a "baby sitter" and in the end unfortunately it was Kelly.

What a sicko - whomever he is!!!

Taken from the first post, on the first thread of Kelly's our webmaster Chris;
Here is the description of the killer.

He was 30 - 40 years old.
ABout 5 foot 10 inches and 160 pounds
Medium to heavy build
Round face with swarthy complexion
Hands and face were weather beaten
Clean shaven, short fark hair
Had a blue windbreaker with possible company logo or emblem on it.
Driving a 1978 or newer (remember, this is 1981) Chysler or GMC full size, light color, possibly pale with Alberta plates.
Stocky
Dark hair and eyebrows
Abrupt mannerisms
Often props his sun glasses on his head.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 01, 2016, 05:29:22 PM
Aaron; it has always been the understanding of most of us here, that you are closest (somehow) to the Cooks.  I respectfully ask you if you will make sure Marnie knows there has been a development in this case.  If you don't know the details, I will be glad to fill you in with the basics (if not all details... cannot disclose names, however.)  If you do not wish to contact Marnie personally, could you, at least supply me/us with an address or phone number... even an email address would probably suffice. Thank you

~Lost

Editing to add:  I noticed AaronP was reading this thread for quite some time - that is why I posted the above and sent pm to Aaron same time .... no response?  that seems odd because Aaron has been the most knowledgeable and prolific poster about Standard and Kelly? 

I cannot help but be concerned that the possibility of police not informing the family is a real possibility - and if the family is not insisting on "updates", the case could sit dormant again, due to understaffing in RCMP ... which we know is very real because it took a few years for them to acknowledge and act on this new information....   We know they have done the "intake", but seems they haven't done anything else, as of yet.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Have faith on August 01, 2016, 09:35:21 PM

If the local RCMP has dropped funding for historical cases from their budget, I worry that they may not investigate further leads unless they are considered enough evidence to actually solve a case. (eg a killer's confession, a former reluctant witness, or a person who heard a confession).

 Someone should ask them if they are still "funding" historical unsolved cases.  It is a yes/no answer. If they aren't, the family can expect lip service and no action. If they are, there is some hope that they will find an interested and caring officer who will follow up on the lead, and make some headway...hopefully before he/she is relocated to another division. This practice of transferring officers on a regular basis has resulted in a lack of continuity necessary to progress cases forward.

As Lost has determined, it is imperative that the Cook family learns of this suspect, and presses the RCMP to follow up on the lead. They alone, have the power to demand action. 

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 02, 2016, 07:51:57 PM
Well folks;  we needn't count on AaronP to inform the Cook family that there is a new development.  I know he has been reading here weeks ago (since our latest member joined, in fact)  but he doesn't seem to recognize any new development as having transpired over the past two months.  Here is his reply to my pm to him:

Quote:  I don't know any member of the Cook family. That said, I would recommend you not contact them re: any potential leads. You should contact the police. Check the RCMP website for cold cases - adjacent to the entry for Kelly Cook is contact information (phone) for contacting the police. That's who you should tell. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on August 02, 2016, 09:43:08 PM
I always viewed ArronP as a person who was struck with the KC case from the beginning and kept every article that he read on the case, saved them over the years, and eventually shared everything that he had with Unsolved.
And he would often refer to an article, especially from the Alberta Report, as correct fact, should a difference of opinion ensue between posters.

By his referencing articles, Aaron P gave me the impression that he did not know the Cook family, but was highly interested in the  murder of Kelly.

Just my very early impressions........
I can also understand why posters might think that he knew them. The  KC thread was his sole interest as far as I know, on UC.

We have him to thank for sharing his info with us.

 While there were contributions made by many posters, it was Aaron P and D1 who also contributed much to her thread; both keeping this thread going,when many others lost interest, or diverted their attention to other cases. True in my own case, at least.

 AaronP had the published info, and D1 had a suspect,  Even though D 1'suspect is deceased, the mere idea  that a suspect may still be alive, and out there somewhere,  got the rest of us thinking. And here we are today. ;)

jb :)


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 02, 2016, 09:58:21 PM
I suppose you are right jb.  I agree AaronP likes facts that are substantiated;  I suppose his passion for the case way back in the beginning settled in the back of my mind (and others?) that he was from the Standard area. 
So, somehow, someone, some way, needs to give the Cooks a "heads up" right about now. imo!

Most of us share the passion of wanting Kelly's murderer convicted.  .... and I think we are close to seeing that happen.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on August 02, 2016, 10:33:29 PM
Lost - patience is the most difficult thing to have at a time like this.... A virtue of which I am sadly lacking....., and after all of your good work - it would great if all of it produced a final result sooner rather than later. I understand.

The powers that be, have been well informed, and it has been duly noted...... and in my view, if warranted, they will  take the ball and run with it. We just have to trust what THEY know, and go along with  their expertise. We have no idea what they are working on behind the scenes right?

jb 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 03, 2016, 11:22:12 AM
Well JB... as Have Faith mentioned, unless there are extra det./s working Historic cold cases, all the info. we put forward will lay on a desk somewhere... until such time, or if there comes a time, that some new det. will read that file, become informed on the details from 30+ years ago (and that doesn't include minor details the old die-hards kept under their hats) and start all over.   ... And if one does, he just may get into it, but get transferred to another spot ... and back goes the case to a dormant pile again.  ... the way I see it ... unless the Cook family steps in.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on August 03, 2016, 12:03:40 PM
Well JB... as Have Faith mentioned, unless there are extra det./s working Historic cold cases, all the info. we put forward will lay on a desk somewhere... until such time, or if there comes a time, that some new det. will read that file, become informed on the details from 30+ years ago (and that doesn't include minor details the old die-hards kept under their hats) and start all over.   ... And if one does, he just may get into it, but get transferred to another spot ... and back goes the case to a dormant pile again.  ... the way I see it ... unless the Cook family steps in.

Not to distract from Kelly's thread, however, I think this type of thing has always gone on. Not enough money or manpower, Police being transferred, etc. 

A few years back a member from this site and myself, became very involved in the Gale Weys case. Gale is considered to have been the first victim of the Highway of Tears. She vanished in 1973 and was later found deceased (1974) a short ways off Highway 5 (Yellowhead Highway). All the information and evidence from that case sat dormant on a shelf, for over thirty five years. In 2012 Police felt confident enough to say that they felt she had been a victim of Bobby Jack Fowler. I don't believe he had ever been looked at in her case, as for one, he was from the US. It wasn't until new technology in DNA testing found a match between Bobby Jack Fowler and 16 year old Colleen MacMillen who had gone missing in 1973 and was found deceased a few months later, that Police were able to say that they felt Fowler was responsible for both Gale Weys and Pamela Darlington's murders. All three had gone missing within a fairly close time frame and within a few hundred miles of one another. 

It does give hope that there is still a possibility that Kelly's murder will be solved even after all these years have passed. One never knows which direction things will go in, or where the one clue will come from that could solve her murder.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 03, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
might take a serious, passionate, die-hard who works on their own.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on August 03, 2016, 01:41:48 PM
Well JB... as Have Faith mentioned, unless there are extra det./s working Historic cold cases, all the info. we put forward will lay on a desk somewhere... until such time, or if there comes a time, that some new det. will read that file, become informed on the details from 30+ years ago (and that doesn't include minor details the old die-hards kept under their hats) and start all over.   ... And if one does, he just may get into it, but get transferred to another spot ... and back goes the case to a dormant pile again.  ... the way I see it ... unless the Cook family steps in.

SENT YOU A PM. re: Contact

I agree. But I was under the impression, that the "tipster" was contacted (at last!!) and it would be seriously looked in to? The question is can we have confidence that it will be seriously looked at - or is this just another promise that will get side tracked.

All too often we find some difficulties in communication within law enforcement due to;

They are Short staffed - always.

Tips seldom acknowledged.

Tips passed on but falls between the cracks.

Files and notes brought home by detectives who have retired. - In the old days - done very frequently. Copiers did not exist during that time.
Thus files were missing.

Frequent transfers - a serious impediment to solving murders - especially when a detective is making head way. Look at the Sonia Varaschin case.  An excellent example of that.

Tips not being passed on to anyone.

We have seen it all with cases, even on here. Most recently Travis Vader. A couple in Prince George area reported to a desk sargent that they saw  a man and a woman in the vehicle belonging to the McCanns. It was never written down, nor passed on.
PG cops could have tracked that vehicle down.

There can be serious problems in communication.  No two ways about it.

We don't know the physical evidence that was gathered and kept in the case room.  They say they have boxes and boxes of interviews, and heavens knows what else they have.

This new "tip" may not be short lived. It may develop into something.
It is sad and alarming  that this tip given much earlier was not looked in to.
Frustration abounds....

Time will tell.  The difficult part is knowing that waiting how long? is too long?
I share your concerns Lost, but hopefully this time - it will be different.
Perhaps Marnie has already been in contact with them, and is aware of the tip.

jb






Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 03, 2016, 03:48:56 PM
Here is a note I made to myself a few months back:  I'm thinking, if we cannot find Marnie's contact info., maybe someone could track down the retired detective (you would have seen him in the video) .... and at least let him know information, that might finalize the case, has been turned into Major Crime Unit,  but we have no way of knowing it is being dealt with, due to lack of staffing and constant changes in personnel in the unit. 

Note: 
Archives: Files upon files fill RCMP shelves, but investigators said they were no closer to finding Kelly Cook’s killer on August 31, 2010 than they were in 1981. Nancy Hixt has the details of the mysterious case.  Earl Peters left in 1990? ... Kelly's sister is Marnie (Wayne) Kathol.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 03, 2016, 04:02:59 PM
Maybe someone around Alberta can track down the retired detective (I'm sure he would gladly set a fire under those sitting on the new info.)  Here he is ... Earl Peters  you can see/hear him 31 seconds into the video two pages back (page 7)

http://globalnews.ca/news/2654704/high-profile-homicide-of-alberta-teen-kelly-cook-remains-unsolved-after-35-years/



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on August 04, 2016, 07:49:11 PM

I see people have been asking me to contact the Cook family. I don't know them, and I have no intention of trying to contact them. If anybody has a hot lead re: this case, he/she should contact the police. That's who needs to know. But as per a posting I made a while earlier, here's how police dealt with tips in another high-profile murder case:


The Punky Gustavson 1992 murder case was very highly publicized, similar to the Kelly Cook case. You can find the article from which I’m quoting at the following website link:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19476605/How-dogged-DNA-work-caught-child-killer-Clifford-Sleigh


The police did eventually catch the killer, years later. Here are some interesting quotes about how the investigation proceeded:


Most murder investigations get about 10 tips for the police to work on. The Punky file got 5,261 tips, and each tip had to be thoroughly investigated and documented. “Everyone is talking to you and everyone wants a piece of your attention,” [Detective Albert] Lacher says.

[Detective Terry] Alm never wanted to put the brakes on any investigator who was hot after a suspect; he knew creativity and an open-minded approach were crucial to his team’s success…
“I was bombarded,” Alm says. “It was quite daunting with all this, with everybody’s theories… if I had a nickel for every rumour about people that were responsible or were good suspects, I’d be a millionaire.”

All the tips had to be thoroughly investigated, but not all the tipsters had the best or sanest of motives. A number of vindictive women made spurious reports. Alm found himself dealing with an unending series of time-wasting jobs, such as psychotic people calling in with tips or even to claim responsibility for the crime. Some tipsters complained bitterly if they felt the police didn’t investigate their tip thoroughly enough. One or two went so far as to enlist politicians and the Gustavson family to complain to the police…

[Detective Tom] Peebles… “With the volume of tips we were getting, a lot of them were just crap… The investigators knew they were crap too, but they knew they had to be done.”



As for contacting the police, as per my earlier experience with CrimeStoppers, they told me that if you submit tips via CrimeStoppers, police will not follow up with you or even acknowledge you unless there is a valid reason for doing so (i.e., the police feel your tip has real validity), because they simply lack the manpower to do so. It'd be better if you called the RCMP and spoke to someone in charge re: any potential bona-fide leads you may have. But as per the case cited above, police receive a lot of useless tips in the course of a high-profile criminal investigation. As I mentioned in a posting earlier, when serial killer Karla Homolka confessed her crimes to a lawyer, she had a tough time getting him to believe her because there had been so many people actually confessing to the murder of Kristen French (a high-profile murder case). So if you have a tip, it'd be helpful to have some good facts to back up your claim. Simply stating that you suspect that 'John Doe' did it probably will not be enough to get the police interested.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 05, 2016, 07:01:26 AM
Yes AaronP;  I get all that; this is not my first rodeo.  There are tips and then There Are Tips.  If a neighbor came forward and said they saw so and so on or near the property of a house that was broken into, that is a tip.  Police ask for these tips all the time, useless or not, every day - in order to weed out suspects until they arrive at the right one.  But if a sincere person goes directly to police and states that the guy next door carried the "known stolen item's" out of a truck and into his garage, that tip might just get a quicker "look". .... and again, if such a tip came from a person living with that thief, then that has to be a tip that raises a red flag first.

If an investigator who is given that tip, chooses to keep it to himself, then gets busy with something else for days - forgetting the lead he was given on the robbery case (or just wants to keep it to himself until he has time to address it himself) then that case with its red flag tip can get forgotten or lay dormant forever, unless a concerned person (or victim) nags for an update.  If, with all the nagging and unanswered messages, the victim or tipster still sees no action regarding the crime, what is their next move?  .... How many months or years should they wait for the police to take their official statement?  maybe give your information to the person whose home contents were stolen?

What about cases of unsolved murders?  If police think a sincere person is misleading them about a murder, ... or not credible for some reason, they shouldn't promise that they will be coming around to take a "formal statement". 

There are many cases that police actually "put witness off" and/or just don't want to accept or deal with certain cases.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: CCF on August 27, 2016, 02:18:48 AM
I am shocked that there was no description given of his vehicle, nor what type of clothing that he wore, as{ he} it is believed, had made prior trips to Standard - before he made his move.
If he was into calving, or farming, would he not wear a cowboy type hat or something like it?
And --- would he not wear cowboy boots?
Wasn't that the general country garb worn by men in that area, for that type of work?
And her sister said "a car pulled up" - odd that he did not drive a truck.... the most common type of vehicle for those parts - if he went from farm to farm.
Is it possible that he was not involved in any of this type of work, as suggested?
Taber is a 2 hour drive to Standard.  I am wondering if he lived closer, say ---- Brooks.
Brooks is only a one hours drive away.  Close enough to Standard, but far enough away not to be easily recognized.

I think part of the key is what was his reason for being in Strathmore, where this is the most likely place he would have obtained a copy of the newspaper where he set his sights on the figure skater.  Was he passing through and saw it in a restaurant, did he live in Strathmore temporarily or longer?  Did he live within an hour or two's drive of Standard and Chin Lake?  Standard, even today is such a small place he would have stuck out like a sore thumb had he been hanging around the place for more than a day. 

Very early on in one of those Alberta Report articles referenced by AaronP, how the composite sketch was made was that someone matching the description of the POI had went to a gas station and tried to use the pay phone from it (the gas station no longer exists in 2016).  Unbeknownst to him, you had to dial the number first and when a person answered on the other end, that is when you dropped the change in to the phone.  This is strongly believed why the first time the phone rang that morning, no one was on the other end because he dropped the money in first and wasn't able to talk to Kelly.  He went back to the phone, dialled the Cook's residence, and was able to connect the call on his second attempt.  The attendant and a trucker overheard parts of the conversation apparently of him talking with Kelly after one of them told them how to operate the pay phone.  If not for that, there may not have been any kind of description of him.

As you said, AaronP has brought forward a ton of very useful info from articles he retained and had posted early on in Part 1.    As a refresher and for those who are reading the thread and don't know the background, basically the timeline looks like this from information posted by AaronP (and others):

1) March 1981 (no specific date): The principal of the Standard school is contacted and a male is wanting personal information about a student. No info is given and the man hangs up.  I am presuming it was the original intended target who the caller was trying to solicit information about (the figure skater photographed in a local Strathmore newspaper around or shortly before that time).

2) Saturday, April 18, 1981: "Original Intended Target" is contacted to babysit.  She declines and is asked for other girls names and numbers; Kelly's contact info is given.

3) Wednesday, April 22, 1981: Approximately 8:30 a.m., the phone rings.  Kelly answers, but no one is there on the other end.  Five minutes later, the phone rings again, this time it is Bill Christensen asking her to babysit.  He gains her confidence and trust by reciting some of her neighbours on the cul-de-sac the Cooks lived on.  She agrees to babysit and he would pick her up around 8 p.m.  I'd like to know how he was able to learn the neighbours names aside from looking them up in a phonebook-which may or may not have had the addresses besides the names for the residents of Standard.  Had he or any other type of door to door salesman had come to the neighbours in those four days, you'd think the neighbours would have shared that info as well.

4) POI is later seen at the Standard Hotel bar (unknown approximate time) where he buys a case of beer, uses the phone and leaves.

5) Kelly is picked up sometime between 8 & 8:30 p.m.; a phone call to an operator around 10 p.m. is made from a pay phone in Hussar where a female screams into the phone and then the phone is hung up. 

6) June 28, 1981: Kelly's body is found clothed, but with her hands and feet bound to cinder blocks in Chin Lake, approximately 200 yards from the north shore bridge (two football fields) and "several yards from shore".  What is several though, 20? 30?...75?

This guy is a very organized individual and pays very close attention to detail, ie: counted his change.  As I've stated in the past, April 17, 1981 was Good Friday that year.  He didn't call Kelly for FOUR days after he got her contact info.  He took those four days to gather as much information as he could, such as learning who her next door neighbours were so he could tell Kelly this to gain her trust.  This guy just didn't fly by the seat of his pants, he had everything planned, including the dump site (and is why I will never consider Terry Arnold as a suspect-two completely different M.O.s from what murders he is a known suspect).  I still often wonder if he didn't have a chain saw with him and he cut a large chunk of ice out to put her body through.  Again-organizational skills come into play here: who would think to check lakes and sloughs, etc. in mid April when they are still iced over? The only reason her body was found was the irrigation use was heavy that spring and summer and caused the water levels to drop substantially exposing her body.  If not for that, who knows when or possibly if she would have been ever found.   

The thing that has always bugged me about the description is how contradictory it is, in my opinion anyways.  It states he was 160-170 pounds, about 5'10-5'11 but was "heavy set".  I'm 5'10 and am 205.  I do not consider myself "heavy set" but more of an athletic build-your prototypical "Dad-bod" lol.  If I was 160 to 170, I'd be a skeleton- like a good friend of mine who weighs about 170-175, is my height but he is lean.  I'm thinking this guy's more accurate weight based on the "barrel chested" and "heavy set" descriptors was probably 215-225 pounds.  Another thing to consider is he may have been a body builder because they all have that barrel chested look when they are not in competition season shedding fat and bulk.  No one seems to have seen this guy without a coat to see if he was "heavy set" in the overweight/fat sense of the word or if he carried a lot of muscle but was not chiseled/defined/ripped, but bulky.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 13, 2016, 10:23:47 PM
I am guessing the Cook family have given up hope of ever finding that child's killer this late in time.  When families of victims spend decades getting their hopes up that investigators will nab that right suspect, only to end up disappointed again and again.... no doubt, it is more and more painful and tiring each time that happens;  no doubt the fear of such over and over, eventually outweighs the fear of that killer evading justice forever.  That makes it so easy for the RCMP to just concentrate on other things. 

It is ironic that so very many cases are still sitting in cyber space with the old familiar "contact RCMP or Crimestoppers" with information" but when people try to give them the information on "cold cases", they push those people away, if the victim's families are not pressing for updates.  As I understand it, the Cook family don't push for updates anymore since Kelly's father is gone.  He must have been the "driving force" for justice for Kelly imo.

God rest her precious young soul ...  taken far before her time, and now just a painful, resurfacing ache in the hearts of those who fought most of their lives ...  but the search for him will continue through those of us who just don't know how or when to give up on fighting for justice for the victims of cold cases ..... those of us who are removed from the pain the fighting family members suffer.    Maybe those families are so worn from hurt, they become resigned to just wanting their peace and privacy. 

BTW ...  quote from CCF
Quote
I still often wonder if he didn't have a chain saw with him and he cut a large chunk of ice out to put her body through.  Again-organizational skills come into play here: who would think to check lakes and sloughs, etc. in mid April when they are still iced over? The only reason her body was found was the irrigation use was heavy that spring and summer and caused the water levels to drop substantially exposing her body.  If not for that, who knows when or possibly if she would have been ever found.   
What an excellent point!!!!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 26, 2016, 10:26:22 AM
It has been a few years now, that RCMP from Airdrie, Alberta have been sitting on a major tip about a suspect in this case.  I got it from the grapevine that they are still sitting on more than a doz. other suspects, not yet investigated.

I do know the particulars of one of the suspects, and it is mind boggling to realize he hasn't been "hauled in yet" for questioning.  I actually believe that if a private investigator doesn't follow up on this, it will never get done.

Seems that calling in tips or sending in hard facts to Crime Stoppers or Cold Crime Investigators is a waste of time, unless you have an actual video of the crime happening;  they just don't have the manpower to do the job.  Sad but true!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on September 26, 2016, 08:45:22 PM
It’s incredible that anybody could claim that Kelly Cook’s family has lost interest in seeing her murder solved and the respective perpetrator(s) brought to justice. Check out the following news story:

http://www.630ched.com/2016/04/22/35-years-later-kelly-cook-murder-still-unsolved/

“[Marnie] Kathol says the family still grapples with what happened…’I miss what she’d be,’ Kathol said. ‘I miss that she should be, she should be sitting at the table with us’.”

That certainly doesn’t sound like a sister who has forgotten what happened. Obviously the Cook family is still deeply upset over Kelly’s murder, miss her terribly, and would surely like to see the case solved.


Or click on this news story re: another girl’s unsolved disappearance:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1501631/we-still-want-to-find-her-family-pleads-for-information-25-years-after-kimberly-mcandrew-disappears/

“[Megan] Adams said the family understands the likelihood Kim is still alive is quite low but they are still grasping for closure… So on the 25th anniversary of the disappearance, the family wants anyone with information about Kim or what may have happened to her to come forward. ‘[We’re] pleading with anyone that may have information. If they haven’t come forward before or if they have come forward and felt police didn’t look into it as perhaps they thought they might, to call police or call again and help us find out what happened,” Adams said.”

Victims’ families don’t simply forget about these crimes. It’s insulting to suggest that they would.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 27, 2016, 12:15:46 AM
Aaron; I can see where that comment was very insensitive.  I was so frustrated to find out that the family wasn't interested in the tip about an absolute match for Kelly's killer; instead, they rely on the discretion of the RCMP.   
While those who bring such information forward have to cringe in fear of his finding out who they are, cannot push for updates the way the family can, it is hard to digest how people are begged to come forward ... but when they do, it is left up in the air from then on - until and if, in time, some detective might have the time to familiarize his or herself with a few dozen boxes of the case files .... whereas, the killer, now being older and free all this time, may never be brought to justice.  Therefore; I have modified my post to take some of my attitude out of it... not all my attitude, mind you.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on September 27, 2016, 10:31:21 AM
Very very true Lost ....
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 27, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
Can anybody say if Chin Lake was frozen over (and maybe with ice fishing holes) the night Kelly disappeared.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wantingtohelp789 on September 27, 2016, 02:11:59 PM
To the best of my knowledge, it would have ice fishing holes yes.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 27, 2016, 04:10:18 PM
I'll bet there are archives that have the temperature etc. for that specific time... maybe even thickness of ice in the area.   I recall someone already spoke of the sun up / sun down time for that day.   I figure it is another piece of "factual" information we can record.  Thank you CCF.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on September 27, 2016, 05:11:14 PM
By the end of April, the ice around edges of lakes and reservoirs would already have been melted. On smaller bodies of water it would melt sooner. However it also depends on the depth of the body of water.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on September 27, 2016, 05:43:07 PM
If you go to this link and read the 4 or 5 comments, you'll realize that Chin Lake was/is a favorite fishing spot (some guys know secrets about what stock is added to it and when)  fished all year round ... some guys get together and rent "the whole camp"   - whatever that means! 

The suspect police still haven't investigated was (according to tip) a regular.  http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=26129

.... don't know if this is useful, but throwing it in.  You locals might know if there indeed are rented camps in April.  http://www.albertaparks.ca/albertaparksca/visit-our-parks/activities/#Fishing

... what about Warner?  could there be spring facilities there?  http://www.warnercounty.ca/campgrounds.html

for the record, we know our suspect had access to facilities where he had work done on a regular basis ... I forget where? might have been Husser~
[/i]

In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on September 27, 2016, 06:39:33 PM
Some of the lakes around Alberta do have camps set up. Most of the summer the camps are used for children's camps to learn the outdoors and are staffed by counselors, nursing staff, etc. When they are off season for children, the camps can be rented by people for family outings or fishing groups, etc. I don't know if Chin Lake area has any though. They are neat cottages that sleep around 4 to 6 persons ... bunk beds.

The camps I know about are mostly run by a religious affiliation. My kids went every summer through a Lutheran church although we were not Lutheran. There is nothing religious regarding the camping and is mostly a fun time learning wilderness survival skills. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on September 27, 2016, 07:18:39 PM
This is now 2016. I would think that in 1981, facilities may have been rustic.  If any?
I don't know, just wondering.

Chin Lake is now called Stafford. Good fishing, stock fed. today.
Note comments about water levels in March and ice conditions

http://www.ifishalberta.com/lakeFeedback.php?id=384

CCF:  Thank you so much for taking the time out of your life - to give us a timeline.
It places everything into perspective. Easier to picture in one's mind.

This thread has been going for a number of years, and you are the first to do it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost;  Great job!
I just have to say it, from one poster to another...

 With your encouragement,  patience,  understanding and compassion, "that someone" who had a very deep concern about a close relative, reported it to the police detachment. That person had wondered for many, many years, if this very close relative had anything to do with it - as the composite, and timeline, and so forth, along with this relative's behaviour seemed to fit the bill.

You are right, it is up to the detachment to pursue  it.  Time will tell, and we will have no way in knowing....

PEACE
JB



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 01, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
Chin Lake condition/weather in April/1981
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 01, 2016, 11:40:11 AM
... cont.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on October 03, 2016, 11:01:38 AM
You did a  lot of homework Lost. :)

It's hard to imagine that back in 1981 the winters were colder than recent years. So the ice would have been solid that year in April. If the perp cut a hole, he went to a lot of trouble to hide his heinous deed. Someone who goes fishing a lot would have the equipment for sure.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 19, 2016, 12:22:59 PM
I do like re-reading this part 2 thread because it is such a good summary of events in this case.... and also makes one think twice about conclusions we reached and agreed on before.  Once we conclude "it must have been that... " then it is easy to just form a mind-set about a detail, and carry that mind-set forward - which in itself, can be misleading. 
For example:  We formed the mind-set that this perp. either/or  - paid attention to detail / and was possibly stingy because he went through, or counted, his change after buying the case of beer at the Standard Hotel.  Now I think he was making sure there was "a quarter" included in his change, because he intended to use the pay phone.  He was from out-of-town and needed to touch base elsewhere - so tended to hoard quarters.  So were all the pay phones in Standard and surrounding area the same?  As I recall my frequenting-pay-phone years; some required you to dial the number and wait for the operator to instruct you to deposit the money (according to the distance you were calling / price of the call) ... while other phones, you could just drop in the quarter and get a dial tone - enabling dialing your number direct ..... a quarter for local calls!.... if long distance, the operator would interrupt and tell you the cost of the call and what change to deposit - at this point, if you were pay-phone savvy, you would push the button that gives you back your quarter ... and then you deposit that quarter again as part of the change the operator dictates.....

 (i know this has been discussed before.)  So were there both types of phones in these small towns and villages in 1981?  Sometimes pay phones were left in place for years without being updated or changed, while others (like in the phone booths) were changed regularly.  ... just another point to ponder!  But I do believe, this guy was from a neighboring town.... he had access to facilities in Husser;  that is why he went there; that is why he had Kelly for two hours before making that call, in which she was heard screaming.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 19, 2016, 01:16:40 PM
I also don't think this perp. would have been considered a stranger by locals being questioned by police at the time.  I think possibly:

- he was a regular around the community because he was back and forth on a regular basis.
- he frequented the area year round pursuing his lake fishing hobby;
- he took vehicles into near-by Husser for regular maintenance at the same place all the time;
- he may have frequented the local rinks and had a fixation on figure skaters (as skating and rinks were a big thing everyone was involved in at his neighboring home town);  I believed he could not go any great number of days without having his hands on young women/girls - and was heavily engaged in such within the families in which he was involved - but had not yet been exposed for it, due to his charismatic, women controlling ability and his "prominent-family status" that kept his young victim/s and other women stifled - as was the ongoing, keep your mouth shut; nobody will believe you! situation in families and in rural towns especially. (and children never dreamed of bringing up such horrifying matters, that should not be in their relm of understanding... much less using the vocabulary necessary to tell of what was happening to them ... nor the mature courage required to address adults about it.
- he constantly wore a blue windbreaker with the company logo on it. (but was just considered a regular guy "doing business" in town all the time)
- he probably returned home Easter Saturday (neighboring town) and returned after the Easter holidays (which is why he never contacted Kelly for 4 days after he was given her contact information.)
- he also drove the late model, light colored, company car.
- he mainly drove the company trucks.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: CCF on November 13, 2016, 07:49:15 PM
I also don't think this perp. would have been considered a stranger by locals being questioned by police at the time.  I think possibly:

- he was a regular around the community because he was back and forth on a regular basis.
- he frequented the area year round pursuing his lake fishing hobby;
- he took vehicles into near-by Husser for regular maintenance at the same place all the time;
- he may have frequented the local rinks and had a fixation on figure skaters (as skating and rinks were a big thing everyone was involved in at his neighboring home town);  I believed he could not go any great number of days without having his hands on young women/girls - and was heavily engaged in such within the families in which he was involved - but had not yet been exposed for it;
- he constantly wore a blue windbreaker with the company logo on it. (but was just considered a regular guy "doing business" in town all the time)
- he probably returned home Easter Saturday (neighboring town) and returned after the Easter holidays (which is why he never contacted Kelly for 4 days after he was given her contact information.)
- he also drove the late model, light colored, company car.
- he mainly drove the company trucks.

Here's a suggestion I haven't seen put forth on this case as of yet:

I wonder who operated the zamboni or any other rink attendant who worked at the Strathmore arena at that time and if he bore any resemblance to the person in the sketch (plus frequented the Chin Lakes area to fish). He'd have a reason to be at the rink and to hang around while the figure skaters were on ice and find out who was who/put names to the faces so to speak.  I don't recall if I ever seen if Kelly and the other girl were members of the Standard FS club or Strathmore FS club as it is only a 30 minute drive between the two.  One thing that did not seem right to me was the RCMP's belief the perp saw the original target's photo in the paper.  What if that was total coincidence because if he was living out of a hotel/motel or frequented the area if he was not from there, someone would recognize the description of the car who operated one of those businesses.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 13, 2016, 08:55:47 PM
It is said that RCMP have a few doz. file boxes full of information .... well, it seems to me, if they'd talked to people in and around standard in the beginning, the right questions were not even asked.  It appears that the information must have accumulated due to tips and suggestions "coming in to them". ... and that is what/all they based their work on. ... what came in when they asked the public for information! 

I doubt very much that they questioned the right people as to this late model car, and/or clothing etc. belong to the killer.  The kind of information they needed was never brought forward to them until 2 years ago.  ... and now, it is stagnant;  nobody mandated to investigate!  ... a loaded bomb that nobody has the mandate to light!

Post 47 in another case (Ontario Karen Caughlin, 14years old, March 1974) pretty much applies to this case and tells it like it is.  In my opinion, if sleuths like us had what the police have at their disposal, maybe this guy would be behind bars now for sure.  ... but that is only because we want to do the job; we want justice for Kelly Cook and others.  The authorities want to do their days work and get their days pay.... no particular desire to solve any case more than any other .... since there are thousands to choose from.  Easiest and least complicated first!   Please read post 47 on Karen's thread. http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=871.0
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 13, 2016, 09:10:11 PM
Another point about this perp:
After Kelly's death, he never even changed his habits of coming into Standard and doing his business etc. .... just continued on as usual.... thus; was not even looked at because of this.  The authorities were looking for a stranger who "hit and ran".  This guy didn't.  He blended right into the two communities of Standard and Husser .... never missed a beat !  If he had backed off after the murder, it may have struck people as odd, but he didn't;  he just kept up his usual charade of a regular guy doing business .... with no reason to stay away after the murder.  He wasn't stupid;  he must have thought this through.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lola77 on December 15, 2016, 08:55:59 AM
He was a total sociopath, and after he murdered Kelly, he was likely to continue killing, unless he ended up in jail or died.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 06, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
I had pondered the idea that (since the Cook family are no longer hounding them) LE may have come to the same conclusion as "our tipster/s)" - and in order to save time and money .... and "face" ... and not ruin the lives of prominent family members of Kelly's killer,  it is possible RCMP talked it over and decided that due to this particular suspect, now claiming Alzheimers .... proceeding would be costly with man hours .... maybe even fruitless when it hits the courtroom .... so just keep the tipster/s at bay until Mr. Killer becomes institutionalized.  Howerever; Mr. Killer is not far gone (probably only early Alzheimers - garnering pity from the few family members who still need him, or still fear him)  ergo; I'd guess he is either on his way to Mexico (or other) - as soon as his parole following jail for other charges (against young women/girls) has lapsed.  I believe he has the ways and means of buying this extra time for a few more months - then he will be "out of harms way".  IMO  He is not without "influence".  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 06, 2017, 01:21:10 PM
Is he up for further charges for the same type of crime?

I am hoping that the RCMP are investigating this tip, but cannot say anything.
I might be a dreamer on that point.
His medical condition should not get in the way of justice.  Even those who are terribly mentally ill have been brought to justice for their crimes.

Regarding some of  his family members, who suffered abuse from him and are protecting him.
sadly, this is very common.

No way can he obtain a passport, nor visa, etc to leave our country Lost.
He has a criminal record, and will not be able to board a plane, train, nor automobile.
All talk on his part.  Like it or not ---- he is stuck - stuck in the boonies.

In addition, as his Alzheimer's progresses, his family will be tired of caring for him as his needs rapidly intensify -

Facilities will be reluctant to take him in because of his past.   No facility is obligated to take anyone in - it is their choice of whom they care for and they have long waiting lists.
I truly feel sorry for his family.
JB

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 11, 2017, 02:49:13 PM
JB, I have to speculate this suspect is laying low and keeping his nose clean until his parole is up, in order to avoid a parole officer turning attention to him for not reporting (disappearing).  ... thus, setting off a "parolee at large" alarm"  ... which in turn might have his face on a screen at border crossings in every state.  But if he just "scoots across" like all the newest refugees entering Canada from US, through easily crossed areas such as southern Manitoba for example - then he can just hop in a waiting car on the other side. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 12, 2017, 06:12:30 PM
I hope it is all talk on his part.  I do not think he is Mexican nor does he speak Spanish?
Just a question that I have.

If a man does not have all of his faculties, I wish him luck down there.

JB
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on April 19, 2017, 09:50:33 AM
JB; the man I refer to has a French name ... a prominent one at that... actually streets named after his prominent forefather/s I expect.  (or else that is coincidence) I did notice major use of the name on public roads around that area.

I am modifying this post because I was informed today that the man those of us suspect (behind the scenes) is not at all French.  It seems that his father adopted the French name in Quebec years before.  This suspect's father was actually Italian descent and his mother was Metis.  The father of this suspect was also somewhat of a "hero" in the area, as he had quite the military standing, as well as big in community involvement.  I can see now, how/why this man was never even approached and questioned after Kelly's murder .... even though he was a regular doing trucking business in and out of the surrounding area.  His father's reputation would put him "above reproach" in the area.  .... even though he was an exact for the composite image.  You just don't go against military figures and big time business owners in any small town!  People worship these types; and there are jobs and "position" to consider.  ... and after all!  Kelly Cook was just a "nobody" in comparison!
The fact that this guy was the image of the suspect was probably just considered a big coincidence or big mistake around Husser and Standard (as well as Brooks) at the time.  I received word today, from a relative of this guy, that they again, recently, contacted the lead investigator in Kelly's case (Airdrie RCMP) ... I think I always spell that place wrong~  and this investigator (name of Joanne I believe) didn't even respond to their query as to why the suspect hasn't even been investigated yet.... even though there is an over-whelming amount of fact given RCMP by members of this man's family implicating him as a very possible suspect. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 07, 2017, 08:39:37 AM
bumping up.... also For The Regulars Here (lounge)   http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7976.msg123596;topicseen#msg123596

For the regulars who have pursued this all along (including AaronP who has pursued this case only all these years) check your messages.  I have sent you the details on this suspect's father ... and this is just the tip of the iceberg on how much influence this man had.

I, for one, have complained to the Commission for Airdrie RCMP taking all the information, doing the interviews, then sweeping it under the table with no reply to inquireis and they did no investigation; the family would know if they did.   
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 20, 2017, 09:28:54 AM
Last week, I spoke (at length) to the Team Commander for the investigation into the murder of Kelly Cook.  He was in receipt of my email/s and complaint.  He was very cordial and very patient during our lengthy conversation.  The bottom line is just as we discuss and suspect so often in this and other cases that are sitting and going nowhere.  (The Team Commander is the person who works at  what should be investigated and what budget, if any can be spent on it.  At least, that is what I understand.

The tips they receive are prioritized.  He does not elaborate on how they are so.  ... and does not commit himself (understandably, according to his job) as to whether "prioritized" means investigating the suspect/s with the most "points" indicating possible involvement - or the most "points" (or easily accessed facts) pertaining to that suspect, which could readily be checked out.  ... one can only guess what prioritize and their point system functions toward. 

One thing is clear;  they don't have the manpower and budget to address all the cold cases - ergo, memories fade; witnesses pass away or disappear; facts become watered down with time.  I am also guessing that suspects with a record or most likely to re-offend would get priority, whereas, those suspects with a clean record and/or are the most accepted neighbors in the community, might never get looked at.  As I said;  this is just my feeling on the matter.... not anything expressed by who I dealt with.   So; the more information going in from the public, the better chance a suspect will be investigated. 

I am putting the contact information here for anyone who might have information or knowledge to share about Kelly's murder.

Major Crimes "K" Division (South)
Serious Crimes Branch
A $100,000 reward is being offered by the Village of Standard for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Kelly?s killer. Anyone with information is asked to call the Serious Crimes Branch South Airdrie ?K? (AB) Division at 403-420-4900

At present, Kelly's case has had the same investigator for the past few years, but apparently, she hasn't been given the mandate to investigate the serious tip/s re: a prominent person from Brooks Alta who is imo. an exact image (1977 -  79 photo given to Major Crimes) of the man we, behind the scenes, suspect.

Anyone wanting the name of the Officer investigating Kelly's case, or the name of the Team Commander, either message me ... or ask the question in the lounge in the thread For All The Regulars Here   http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7976.0



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on August 27, 2017, 06:26:26 AM
I realize I am the only one still commenting on this thread, but .... how else to keep the thread going (on top) ~

So here's a thought:  In Kelly Cook #1, we theorized and speculated endlessly about exactly where and when Kelly's abductor took her after picking her up at her family home April 22, 1981.  Posters from that area were able to present detailed and logical routes taken by the killer that night.  .... mostly, incorporating the infamous call from a payphone outside a Husser garage/service station (which is now long gone or abandoned?) ...
That call may or may not have been from Kelly (after temporarily getting out of the killer's grip for a number of minutes).  ...... or could have been a bored teen or kid fooling around at a phone booth.

Regardless if the call was from Kelly, and regardless if her abductor took her to Husser first .... Isn't it possible her killer, took her elsewhere that night, either instead of Husser, or after Husser?  I wonder if he took her to another town or place he had access to - maybe even his own home?  without being even suspect or noticed?  keeping her in the car trunk, or temporarily hiding her somewhere around his own property... then, transporting her at a later time, even with a different vehicle? to the Chin Lake area - in order to distance himself from her murder.  God only knows exactly when he disposed of her;  those cinder blocks may have come from his own back yard?   This guy may have just returned home for the Easter weekend (from his business in the Standard area) ... and after Easter, and upon heading out to Standard on another normal business trip - diverted to Chin Lakes (after sleeping on it) and disposed of her body there - in order to distance himself from her murder.  For Example:  let's say this guy was from Brooks:  take a look~
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on August 31, 2017, 08:53:37 AM
Last week, I spoke (at length) to the Team Commander for the investigation into the murder of Kelly Cook.  He was in receipt of my email/s and complaint.  He was very cordial and very patient during our lengthy conversation.  The bottom line is just as we discuss and suspect so often in this and other cases that are sitting and going nowhere.  (The Team Commander is the person who works at  what should be investigated and what budget, if any can be spent on it.  At least, that is what I understand.

The tips they receive are prioritized.  He does not elaborate on how they are so.  ... and does not commit himself (understandably, according to his job) as to whether "prioritized" means investigating the suspect/s with the most "points" indicating possible involvement - or the most "points" (or easily accessed facts) pertaining to that suspect, which could readily be checked out.  ... one can only guess what prioritize and their point system functions toward. 

One thing is clear;  they don't have the manpower and budget to address all the cold cases - ergo, memories fade; witnesses pass away or disappear; facts become watered down with time.  I am also guessing that suspects with a record or most likely to re-offend would get priority, whereas, those suspects with a clean record and/or are the most accepted neighbors in the community, might never get looked at.  As I said;  this is just my feeling on the matter.... not anything expressed by who I dealt with.   So; the more information going in from the public, the better chance a suspect will be investigated. 

I am putting the contact information here for anyone who might have information or knowledge to share about Kelly's murder.

Major Crimes "K" Division (South)
Serious Crimes Branch
A $100,000 reward is being offered by the Village of Standard for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Kelly?s killer. Anyone with information is asked to call the Serious Crimes Branch South Airdrie ?K? (AB) Division at 403-420-4900

At present, Kelly's case has had the same investigator for the past few years, but apparently, she hasn't been given the mandate to investigate the serious serious tip/s re: a prominent person from Brooks Alta who is imo. an exact image (1977 -  79 photo given to Major Crimes) of the man we, behind the scenes, suspect.

Anyone wanting the name of the Officer investigating Kelly's case, or the name of the Team Commander, either message me ... or ask the question in the lounge in the thread For All The Regulars Here   http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7976.0







I'm glad this was reported formally to the RCMP (for anyone who has any potential valid leads, that's who needs to know). Having said that, I don't think the RCMP want to sweep this unsolved murder case under the rug. They will probably not discuss much about the case or any suspects with anybody in the public for two reasons: 1) they don't want to jeopardize the investigation per se, and 2) all public & private sector institutions across Canada are subject to varying degrees of privacy legislation and cannot disclose personal information about an identifiable individual unless it is specifically needed for documented business purposes (e.g., the RCMP will share it among their own staff in charge of murder investigations) or if a legislative exception to disclosure applied (but that wouldn't apply in the description of the case above).

Remember too, as per my posting about the Punky Gustavson murder investigation, police often receive a lot of tips in the event of a high-profile crime, but obviously the majority of those tips are not pertinent to solving the actual crime. The Gustavson murder was solved eventually, and hopefully that will prove true in the Kelly Cook murder case.

In a Calgary Herald article from March 1986 ('Who Killed Kelly?'), Constable Jerry Dunn was saying that back then, they'd already cleared (i.e., dismissed them as being the real culprit) more than 2,000 possible murder suspects. Obviously the number has gone up since then. Constable Dunn was also saying 31 years ago that at that point in time, the RCMP needed a lucky break to solve this case, such as the murderer making a confession or bragging to someone about the crime he committed (i.e., in both cases, a confession). And of course, confessions are not necessarily valid, for as I've pointed out with regard to the high-profile Ontario murder of Kristen French in 1992, dozens of people were confessing 'having done the criminal deed' to police and lawyers (which is why one of the true killers, Karla Homolka, initially had a tough time getting a lawyer to believe her sordid tale).

I personally believe, as per an earlier posting by a Standard resident, that RCMP suspect who the real culprit is but simply lack the evidence needed to prosecute him. Remember that the RCMP (and other police forces) can't arbitrarily charge a person with a crime - there's got to be some real convincing evidence. In the 2016 Jian Ghomeshi sex assault trial, the charges against him were dropped when his defence lawyer proved that his complainants' accusations against him were false via some real hard evidence - the complainants' own emails (which told a totally different story than the one they relayed to police & prosecutors). That's what is needed to solve the Kelly Cook case and other unsolved crimes - tangible evidence that can be used within our legal system to demonstrably and verifiably prove that a particular person is responsible for committing a particular crime.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lola77 on October 28, 2017, 03:24:44 PM
I'm sure the authorities have a good idea who the perp was, but are having difficulty connecting the dots so to speak. The perp behind Kelly's murder killed before, it would take some going back through the archives to do some research on his crime(s).  It would take some time and effort. They are also less receptive if the witness is now deceased and have secondhand information through another source. As for reporting anything to Crimestoppers, if you didn't physically witness this person pick up Kelly and murder her,  then they are not willing to accept your information.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on December 01, 2017, 05:21:02 AM
History channel, Cracking the code of Zodiac killer, season 1 episode 3. I caught the tail end of the show but did see a few pictures of possible suspects and one of the pictures/sketch is also listed here on Kelly's pages as Bill Christensen. The sketch of a man with dark hair and dark rimmed glasses. I cannot open any of the picture links to copy and paste here.

Same sketch as first posted here:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.0
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 01, 2017, 09:37:22 AM
that's a "shocker" Sap, if indeed this suspect sketch created by Kelly's murder, ended up among those of Bill Christensen. .... Maybe, if you only caught the end of an episode, it could be coincidence that this suspect sketch was included??? can you tell us what episode/date you caught that ending?  Maybe the show ended with a compilation of "suspect images" in the news over the years.

 Up until my own latest belief of who the killer of Kelly could be, - and I kept changing directions over the years, as we all came up with more and more information and ideas - Bill Christensen was my # 1 choice, once I learned all about him, but now I'm resolved to the guy who worked in and around Standard, and according to his own family member/s, stayed at the Standard hotel.  He may be innocent, but he was most certainly found guilty (and did time) for what he did to his own young daughter and others - (still not sure of the charges "others" laid - if he was further convicted of more?) ...  and the team investigating him for Kelly's murder haven't made a move as of yet, as far as I know. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on December 01, 2017, 01:30:51 PM
Quote
that's a "shocker" Sap, if indeed this suspect sketch created by Kelly's murder, ended up among those of Bill Christensen. .... Maybe, if you only caught the end of an episode, it could be coincidence that this suspect sketch was included??? can you tell us what episode/date you caught that ending?  Maybe the show ended with a compilation of "suspect images" in the news over the years.

Dec 1/17. On Bravo channel/history channel. Episode # 3 was on between 2 and 3 a.m. I will have to see if it's a weekly show, probably is, and will have to check if it's on earlier. I was up at that point b/c my cat was over rambunctious and just turned the TV on for a bit. I caught about 20 minutes. Two detectives were interviewing a man who knew a suspect that fit to Zodiac. They had a grouping of 3 pictures with one being a sketch and they showed it periodically throughout the 20 minutes. With a show like this, there must be a compilation on the Net somewhere. What I did glean from it was that the man suspected of being the Zodiac killer was a traveler ... in that he paid frequent visits to his mother who lived distant from him, and some of the murders figured in that period. I'm sure the sketch is the same one as here. What I didn't get was exactly where his mother lived and route he would have traveled when visiting her.
Would a killer just stick to one road always? Would he ever take a detour to see what is down this particular stretch of highway? Need to find the compilation on the net.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on December 01, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
Here is the video. I had to sign in with my provider service info. So you will likely have to do the same. So it is about the code discovered. The elderly gentleman the detectives were interviewing did claim the suspect had a zodiac calender with him.

http://www.history.ca/video/a+new+code+uncovered/video.html?v=1105778755912&p=1&s=da#video
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on December 01, 2017, 10:31:06 PM
Yet the sketch towards the end of the show appeared to me as that of Christensen. I guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Graceylayne on February 22, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
Last week, I spoke (at length) to the Team Commander for the investigation into the murder of Kelly Cook.  He was in receipt of my email/s and complaint.  He was very cordial and very patient during our lengthy conversation.  The bottom line is just as we discuss and suspect so often in this and other cases that are sitting and going nowhere.  (The Team Commander is the person who works at  what should be investigated and what budget, if any can be spent on it.  At least, that is what I understand.

The tips they receive are prioritized.  He does not elaborate on how they are so.  ... and does not commit himself (understandably, according to his job) as to whether "prioritized" means investigating the suspect/s with the most "points" indicating possible involvement - or the most "points" (or easily accessed facts) pertaining to that suspect, which could readily be checked out.  ... one can only guess what prioritize and their point system functions toward. 

One thing is clear;  they don't have the manpower and budget to address all the cold cases - ergo, memories fade; witnesses pass away or disappear; facts become watered down with time.  I am also guessing that suspects with a record or most likely to re-offend would get priority, whereas, those suspects with a clean record and/or are the most accepted neighbors in the community, might never get looked at.  As I said;  this is just my feeling on the matter.... not anything expressed by who I dealt with.   So; the more information going in from the public, the better chance a suspect will be investigated. 

I am putting the contact information here for anyone who might have information or knowledge to share about Kelly's murder.

Major Crimes "K" Division (South)
Serious Crimes Branch
A $100,000 reward is being offered by the Village of Standard for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Kelly?s killer. Anyone with information is asked to call the Serious Crimes Branch South Airdrie ?K? (AB) Division at 403-420-4900

At present, Kelly's case has had the same investigator for the past few years, but apparently, she hasn't been given the mandate to investigate the serious tip/s re: a prominent person from Brooks Alta who is imo. an exact image (1977 -  79 photo given to Major Crimes) of the man we, behind the scenes, suspect.

Anyone wanting the name of the Officer investigating Kelly's case, or the name of the Team Commander, either message me ... or ask the question in the lounge in the thread For All The Regulars Here   http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7976.0

Hi Lost.    I tried to send you an email but I'm not sure if it went through?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 23, 2018, 11:33:12 AM
I got the email; responded, and got back a rejection message.  I am here if you wish to using private messaging.

Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 24, 2018, 07:11:39 PM
Here is a descript of the killer's { of Kelly} car.

Driving a 1978 or newer (remember, this is 1981) Chysler or GMC full size, light color, possibly pale with Alberta plates.

I often wondered if the killer was American, but I now see that he had Alberta plates.

And it was a newer car. Three years at most.  So, he certainly had a decent credit rating  which means a job. If unemployed at the time, which I doubt, it would have been fairly recent. In the matter of a light colour, I doubt if he lived in the boonies.  Perhaps a city. If the boonies, in all likelyhood he would have driven a truck.

The fact that townsfolk did not know the killers  name, says alot.  He was not a regular in that town.

The only time he used the name Bill Christensen was on the phone to Kelly whereby he was overheard by a bartender in Standard.  Bartenders would know the townsfolks.

 So, I wonder if Bill Christensen was well known in that town at all.  This really puzzles me. 

I did post the history of this family on this thread, as they did farm somewhere in the area,  and I assumed that Bill would be well known in Standard, but perhaps not and the killer knew it.

Perhaps the Christensens did their shopping in Calgary, or a small town such as Brooks. In fact, he might have known Bill Christensen and used it, knowing full well that Bill was not known in Standard. The Christensen name might have been known,  but not to recognize them, as they did not frequent Standard.

 Keeping that in mind, he must have had confidence that Bill Christensen was not known in Standard, and he used it.  And the only way he would be certain of that is if he knew alot about Bill Christensen and the Christensen family.imo


jb



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 25, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
jb; the town's history is enough to suggest the use of a name like that...  the streets.. early settlers .. etc. 

My gut tells me that the use of this name was in keeping with the killer's "clearly obvious defiant, cocky, make-fun character".  I suspect the car was his father's family/business car,  which he drove regular, as the company trucks.  This guy was so full of himself, and greedy for young women!  ... probably hyper-active!  ... and spoiled by his father.  .... as the old saying goes:  "got away with murder".  The old man wasn't without influence ... and God only knows about him too!!!!  ... all the most powerful contacts and community adoration one could get!  IMO
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 25, 2018, 03:46:01 PM


Cocky?  Darn rights. Lost.   Risk taker and Nervy as well.
to quote Lost
Quote
. all the most powerful contacts and community adoration one could get!  IMO
That may also be why he chose Standard.  Out of the wayside of his own home town - further away the better.

quoting myself from reply 1 on part 2. lol

Quote
But calling up a Principal and demanding phone number of girl (preferred by poi)  is down right brazen.  I suppose this came up after the fact.  One would think the Principal would have raised the alarm at least to the parents.  Yet nothing?? He said nothing to her parents or to the girl??
Hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.  The Principal story came out in 2005 - was it not brought up before? If not, I wonder why? Was this kept in police files?

Gosh, by accounts,  he hung around Standard long enough, one would think someone would know something about him. He was demanding, unlikeable, down right ugly.  Surely he said something about himself to someone in Standard. There is some  physical description of him, but not of much else.
One thing, he is untrusting and cheap (counted his change from the bartender


Good point made by you regarding change.  Checking to see if he had the right coins for the pay phone.  Did he pick up  Kelly that very nite?
Did HE ask for directions on how to find her house? Where did he go to drink the case of beer? In his car?  Home? to a motel?

jb



[
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 25, 2018, 07:18:06 PM
jb; I would wager that the person we suspect behind the scenes here, had a habit of drinking all the time, even when driving.  After all, who would stop one of the company trucks or big car, owned by the "big shot father" ... military icon, pillar of society?  ... and/or if any police did, it would sure be handled swiftly, discounted and forgotten. 
This guy had good reason to be cocky;  he was and is the typical spoiled, treacherous, punk (now an old conniving dude with lawyers and clout enough to have his prison record out of the media) and details of sexually abusing his own little girl around the time of Kelly's murder.... and also others afterward... including some adult women who had no recourse at the time, due to the families clout.  .... that is except for the story which appeared when he finally got busted for what he did to his own little girl - ..... albeit, an historic case which materialized once the little girl became old enough, educated enough, and stabilized from the old trauma of what happened to her .... thanks to the "better-late-than-never support" of her mother / her witness to much of his antics back then .... as the mother finally, after years of pleading from her daughter, finally broke her silence and faced her fear and shame of that horrible time. .... that horrible time being a period when this fearful, suspicious, oppressed mother of an abused little girl, managed to put enough time between her fears and oppression of years - and go to the police. 
This mother, back then when Kelly was murdered, actually traveled to Standard to visit little Kelly's grave - that is how strong her suspicion was/is.  I don't know all the particulars, but cannot help but think that maybe this lady saw and forgot more than her tortured mind and soul could deal with while Kelly was missing, and yet to be discovered.
 The authorities have been made aware of all this and are doing nothing...  So Pappa War Bucks still has his medals and his clout from the grave .... too many turned their heads back then, and too many would be shamed in their "golden years" to have it come out now.  But, the brave little girl who was one of her father's first victims, risked her safety, her family and her livelihood a few years ago.... in hopes that the Cook family had gained enough public support to take the bull by the horns, and deal with the monster.  However;  the Cook family probably know more than I do at this point;  and are worn down enough and realistic enough, to not "take on" the corruption that turned blind eyes to a killer who "did it all in plain sight" because he knew he could~  if all the girl told me over a period of months is true.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 25, 2018, 10:10:03 PM
Short of getting a voluntary confession from him, I wonder.....
Little possibility of his  dna on her body, as she was immersed in water....
It would take a strong witness who saw the girl with him, before anything might be considered, I would think. I am obviously not an expert, just thinking out loud here

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 26, 2018, 03:30:27 PM
To answer my own question, he abducted her the same day he called Kelly to arrange to babysit.

Here is an excellent link - giving the background, and possible suspects at the time.
Terry Arnold is included.

https://shows.pippa.io/unsolved-mysteries-of-the-world/the-unsolved-abduction-murder-of-kelly-cook-s01e10

Standard had a total of 353 residents at the time/jb

Description of killer
A composite describes of the the man from all witnesses indicated the perpetrator as being about 30-40 years old, 5 10, 160 pounds medium to heavy build with a round face and swarthy complication. His hands and face were weather beaten but with short dark hair and clean shaven. He had a blue windbreaker with a possible logo on it. The car he was driving is reported as being a 1978 full sized Chrysler or GMC, light colour with possible Alberta plates.

and

Bar staff identify the man as having a rough attitude. He walked directly up to the bar and almost demands to use the telephone. He makes the call to Kelly's friend, buys a case of beer and gets annoyed about his change and leaves without evening saying thank you. They include a vague description of a tanned, heavy set man.

However, there are reports that a man who entered a local restaurant asking the waitress if she did babysitting and if she could help him out. The waitress gave Kelly Cook's friend's number, and she in turn gave the number of Kelly Cook.

A composite describes of the the man from all witnesses indicated the perpetrator as being about 30-40 years old, 5 10, 160 pounds medium to heavy build with a round face and swarthy complication. His hands and face were weather beaten but with short dark hair and clean shaven. He had a blue windbreaker with a possible logo on it. The car he was driving is reported as being a 1978 full sized Chrysler or GMC, light colour with possible Alberta plates.

If we are to believe these reports, then the perpetrator had not planned on a specific victim. He was most likely fishing for a young girl, any girl.

But the question remains, why do this in such a small village where the relative amount of young girls is low and the chance of being identified high?

There are reports that the school at which Kelly Cook was attending received a telephone call just prior to the abduction. In March 1981, a photo ran in a local paper of a girl from a figure skating club. The Principle of the school recalls that a man indicated he saw the girl in the photo and wanted to know more about her. The Principle indicated it was not policy to reveal the girls name, address or phone number. The caller hung up. It seemed as if the perpetrator was looking for a specific type of girl and may have settled on Kelly Cook.

and

Reports indicate that Kelly Cook received a phone call from a man identifying himself as Bill Christensen who asked her to babysit for him that evening. He explained he would pick her up at her residence.[b[ Kelly routinely babysat and although she did not recognize the name, the surname was a common one in that area.[/b] Crime was virtually none existent and residents would often leave doors unlocked. Kelly's friend Cindy Krabsen, who also babysat regularily, recalls Kelly was uneasy and asked if Cindy knew this Bill Christinsen person, but then Kelly reassured herself because she indicated to Cindy that when she asked if the man knew where she lived, he reassured her by providing the names of her next door neighbors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He provided the names of the next door neighbours?  I wonder if he only gave the last name of the next door neighbour, or if he gave a few names of the next door neighbour?  That is possibly a crucial piece that might have been looked more deeply into.

And to my mind, no one knew Bill Christensen, but the Christensen name was well known in the area.  I think the killer was aware that no one knew a Bill because he knew the Christensen's and was confident that Standard was not one of the places that they would frequent.

It is believed that the killer spent at least one to two months doing research before he hatched his plan.  I think it was the planning of it that excited him just as much, and even more than the actual killing.  In my opinion, he knew where he was going to leave her body, as he brought the rope and concrete bricks with him.  Immersing her in water would erase any prints or fibers that he may have left behind.  DNA forensics was not used during that time.

and this is creepy =
Quote
Four and a half months after the abduction, girls in Canmore, Alberta, 2 hours west of Standard along Hwy 1 reported getting strange calls from a man, who's name was not remembered. The man was requesting a babysitter and said he would pick up the babysitter at their house and drive them. Suspicious of the request and that they did not recognize the name in a small town of 3000, each girl failed to provide the service to the man. RCMP were called and investigated but no leads surfaced other than the phone calls were placed by a man using a payphone and that he had called 11 girls and if a girl turned him down, he asked for referrals, just like Kelly Cook's abductor had done.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 26, 2018, 07:26:37 PM
great reminder jb; 

One thing I've said in the past, I have to repeat:  It seems to me, the killer had a "mind set" as to the image of the figure skater being an example of what he could expect, when he would pick up one of her friends.  I think he was disappointed that the girl he picked up wasn't blonde/his type .... or didn't resemble the skater he saw in the news or picture.  I think being so much older than the girls, he was out of touch with what to expect... and that set him off.    I have also entertained the notion that perhaps this guy was using this ruse long enough that he may actually have gotten lucky with a few girls in the past, who were bored enough and daring enough, or naive enough, not to think about it (always eager to take baby sitting)  to go along and get along with him, accept the baby sitting fee, and go home and keep their mouth shut .... maybe even just out of shame and fear.  It seems he knew he had to kill Kelly to shut her up.    ....just thinking out loud about unspoken possibilities~
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 26, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
And he might have been the one who tried the same scheme 4 months later, in Canmore a town of 3000 by calling 11 girls to ask each one to babysit, but none of them took the bait.  He used a payphone.

He gave his name, but none could remember it.

It would have been a phoney one anyway.

jb
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 26, 2018, 10:23:31 PM
and to quote from https://shows.pippa.io/unsolved-mysteries-of-the-world/the-unsolved-abduction-murder-of-kelly-cook-s01e10

Is the very last part of this article encouraging?/

Quote from Article
Law enforcement strongly believe the killer and police have crossed paths at some time during the investigation, which has exhausted thousands of man hours.

Police believe they have spoken with the killer at least once.

Although Standard town residents are disappointed the case remains unsolved, they are not critical of the police. Most say the police have done everything they can.

Witnesses described the man as 30?45 years old in 1981, making him about 63?78 today. He was around 178 centimeters (5?10″) in height with a medium to heavy build and dark hair. There is currently a $120,000 reward being offered to anyone with information.

Rumours abound in 2017 that police have a suspect in mind and are investigating. Any tips, are essential in bringing justice to Standard and for Kelly Cook and her family.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Serious Crimes Branch South Airdrie ?K? (AB) Division at 403-420-4900 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 27, 2018, 09:43:11 PM
... not much sense jb, in calling the numbers if those investigating are not really investigating it anymore.  It's a catch 22;  the police don't move further unless the family (Cook family) are insisting on movement and updates~  but the family has resolved to leave it to the police to keep investigating or not... according to the discretion of the police involved ... in other words, the family have given up.  imo
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on February 27, 2018, 11:12:59 PM
Should we dispel rumours? Not all rumours are correct, but many times there is a kernel of truth to them. It would be great if they have a good lead, and are at least, looking into it.

One can always hope.

jb

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on February 28, 2018, 01:43:18 PM
 :)  out of curiosity!  a friend was telling me that the gas station where the phone call was made to Kelly from alias Bill Christensen, is  a "wrecking yard" now.  Anybody here ever visit the place?  Must be some lively conversation there at times.  ::)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 02, 2018, 12:37:36 PM
Hundreds of past and present community members will gather in Standard this weekend to celebrate the lives of two well-respected community members who are being laid to rest.

At such gatherings, talk turns to many different events from the past. It is my hope that someone in attendance will remember a critical piece of information that could help provide answers for Kelly Cook's family.

I have one theory remaining, but it's just a theory. Many of the people gathering in Standard this weekend no longer live there, but knew Kelly and her family when they did.

I see this weekend as a last chance of sorts. It was so long ago.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 02, 2018, 12:44:31 PM
I sure wish I lived around there;  I would be the first in attendance! ----- with images in hand, of a few suspects we cannot post on this site, but surely need to be looked at by 1981 residents of Standard and area.  Great observation and "heads up" wellwell! ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 02, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
In a pm between another member and myself... the other member brought up people who had no experience with pay phones  back in 1981. 

I can't help but think it was Kelly who had little or no use of pay phones before - especially those old payphones where you had to talk to the operator before putting in your money.  I know that when I grew up in the country, even though I went into town all the time, I never had the occasion to use a pay phone until I was an adult and moved away.  Seems when you lived in small towns, most kids didn't carry change for a phone with them;  instead, they would go into a business establishment and ask to use their phone.... that's small town and rural life~

I also explained to the other member: I still think it was  a "low profile local" who wouldn't be recognized easily. ..  or else a guy around all the time doing jobs or passing through for a long time, thus never closely looked at, or considered suspicious - as a  predator.   ....  "in plain sight" if you get my drift ... not considered because there is a collective mindset of it being a total stranger.

Also:  for what it's worth, I don't think Kelly was put in Chin Lake right away;  I'm thinking it was more like when the ice melted I think whoever took her made sure he had that "showy car" off the roads pretty quick that night, thus it was parked before it was realized that Kelly had not made it to a "sitting job" in a private location where he abductor was secure..... and then she was killed and hidden elsewhere until the ice melted- then transported perhaps in a small boat or dingy in the back of a truck, unloaded "in plain sight" when fishing season on the lake started, then casually and brazenly just dumped over the side ... again in plain sight at an opportune time... as nobody really notices or pays particular attention to what a guy has in the small boat he's unloading off a truck or trailer at a lake.   Just my opinion~
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 02, 2018, 08:49:54 PM
quote a member

Quote
I can't help but think it was Kelly who had little or no use of pay phones before - especially those old payphones where you had to talk to the operator before putting in your money.  I know that when I grew up in the country, even though I went into town all the time, I never had the occasion to use a pay phone until I was an adult and moved away.  Seems when you lived in small towns, most kids didn't carry change for a phone with them;  instead, they would go into a business establishment and ask to use their phone.... that's small town and rural life~
I can't help but think it was Kelly who had little or no use of pay phones before - especially those old payphones where you had to talk to the operator before putting in your money.  I know that when I grew up in the country, even though I went into town all the time, I never had the occasion to use a pay phone until I was an adult and moved away.  Seems when you lived in small towns, most kids didn't carry change for a phone with them;  instead, they would go into a business establishment and ask to use their phone.... that's small town and rural life~

I agree with the above. And kids did not carry coins with them in the country to use a pay phone,
If I escaped, I would not confine myself in a phone booth.  I would hide in the bushes, or run to a home, if there was one close by.
That being said, if not Kelly, who was it? 

Also, killer used the hotel phone at the bar. I went back and reread the phone call from hotel part.  Bartender said He demanded to use the phone. That is how he overheard the conversation, as the phone would be placed on the counter.

Quote
Bar staff identify the man as having a rough attitude. He walked directly up to the bar and almost demands to use the telephone. He makes the call to Kelly's friend, buys a case of beer and gets annoyed about his change and leaves without evening saying thank you. They include a vague description of a tanned, heavy set man.


jb



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 02, 2018, 09:43:58 PM
... know what ya meant jb... but, putting myself in her shoes, traumatized with fear... maybe I'd risk going for the phone thinking my anxious mother is standing waiting on the other end of the line..... I wouldn't have stopped to think about being held up by an operator etc.  ... and another thing bothers me:  if the killer tied Kelly's hands and feet, I'm guessing it was to keep her in the trunk until he had the car out of sight.  I just don't believe he drove that car "directly" to Chin Lake;  I believe he hid the car on his own property or "safe place" until he figured out where/and how he would get rid of her.  possibly strangled her with temper "after the phone booth incident"... which now probably attracted attention to that phone booth.... and definitely made the killer step up his pace  ... then quicky tied her in case she came to before he got to his "safe place" .... after which, if left in the trunk, until he got some rest and/or cleared his crazy head, she would have suffered hyperthermia.......... ???  That time of year, no doubt a seasoned outdoors man or well built farmer would have access to hidden, perhaps well-treed property ... private at that?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 02, 2018, 10:12:39 PM
This is from a poster in Part 1 - I guess there were no bushes to hide in.  Seems this poster might have been from the area.\jb
========================================================

The article about this case says that the call the operator heard from the payphone in Hussar was around 10pm, yet Kelly was abducted at 830. Hussar is 25 km straight east, at most a 15 minute drive. So, assuming the call was from Kelly and really, it would be a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't, then where was Kelly for the 1 1/2 hours between the time she was picked up and the time that call took place? The landscape is bald prairie, not the kind of place you could pull off the road, into the bush. The perp would know that he would have only a certain amount of time before Kelly's parents knew something was wrong and people started looking for her. I still wonder if she wasn't taken to a place in/near Hussar, to someone's house or an abandoned building and got away to the payphone before she was intercepted..............   >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: jellybean on March 02, 2018, 10:28:04 PM
and further -

Calgary RCMP Cpl. Andy Johnson, who is the lead investigator on the file today, said when the body was found it was in an advanced state of decomposition and there was no obvious cause of death.

?My belief is that Kelly was killed shortly after the kidnapping ? she wasn?t held for very long,? Johnson said.

?I think the brazenness of the offence is what?s unique in this, I don?t think we?ve seen anything as brazen as this.?

He said it?s likely the crime was planned by a man over a two-month period, by someone who was probably living in the area at the time.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 02, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
how about the abductor had keys or access to a garage where he regularly had work done on his truck/s!  ... a place where he could drop in anytime he was on the go boozing or carousing, or while his trucks were being worked on.  ... and he was toying with Kelly behind locked doors, until he got enough beer in him to do his deed (that kind are usually cowards even though they act tough)  ... and with each beer, he became more distracted, so Kelly waited her chance to "bolt" and did .... maybe while he opened a door to take a leak (got to think as if it were me) ...  or maybe he even passed out for a bit and she seized the opportunity, but he snapped out of it and ran after her????

or maybe Kelly got loose from the car when he slowed down to make a turn, then ran anywhere she could, but he knew where she would end up... so he drove until he caught up to her???? Only she and he know for sure! 

that would account for the time lapse between her being picked up at home, and the phone call .... possibly~
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 02, 2018, 11:23:23 PM
Cpl. Johnson's statement is typical and ambiguous imo.   and exactly when did he state that jb?... maybe right after she was found, before an autopsy?  Another statement says she was asphyxiated.  ... and there is no such thing as no obvious cause of death unless the statement was give prior to the coroner's work?  .... and I've always wondered about the "advanced state of decomposition".  Could that have been because she was stashed in a warm place for some time before being dumped? The majority of that time she was missing, if it was frigged water - did it heat up that much, that quickly?   Bless her innocent little heart;  it is heart wrenching to be thinking all these things...

- but I'm thinking back to when Penny Warner went missing off Wasaga Beach and wasn't found for a few years.  ... and statements claimed it was amazing how "intact" she was considering the seasons and rough currents...  Then again (digressing here;  me being me and with so little faith in the system, I always felt that Penny was stashed in very cold storage for a few years, until the case of her missing went cold.)  I never felt Penny recklessly slipped into the water behind her house and ended up so far away.   ::)

from a previous page link:
Quote
The body was so badly deteriorated that the Calgary medical examination office was unable to determine how, or when, Kelly Cook died. Later, the press indicated they received reports that Kelly died of asphyxiation but she was not sexually assaulted, leaving investigators baffled as to the motive of her slaying.

**edited to fix title
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 03, 2018, 09:57:17 AM
Here's hoping that the gathering today at the Cook family's church jogs some memories.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 04, 2018, 01:35:11 PM
On April 22, 1981, at 8:20 A.M., Kelly received a phone call from a man identifying himself as Bill CHRISTENSEN. The caller asked if she would babysit that evening. Kelly agreed and arrangements were made for the caller to pick up Kelly at her residence.

At 8:30 P.M., 12 hours later,a full-sized North American car pulled up in front of the COOK?s residence. The unidentified male and Kelly were last seen departing the residence. Kelly was not seen alive again. Her body was discovered in the Chin Lake Reservoir (east of Lethbridge, Alberta) on June 28, 1981.

Actually, the fact that this guy phoned just before 8:30 in the morning could point to the fact that regular business are not open until 9;  but somebody who is not on the clock for an employer - makes his own schedule to suit himself, might not respect the 9 am to 5 pm "courtesy".  Or... was he trying to catch Kelly before she left for school?  Or... wouldn't that be Easter break for the schools? 

Anybody living in Standard and surrounding areas will recall that week vividly (just as I recall that I was stepping onto the school bus the day it was announced that JFK had just been assassinated);  oddly enough, such traumatic events can leave not just moments, but hours or days imprinted on a person's memory immediately after hearing such impacting news.  So where were you that April 22, 1981?  Were you on Easter Holidays?  By the way, it was also the full moon for April.         https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1981
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 07, 2018, 01:00:12 PM
Remember when geographical profiling was dismissed by west coast police forces during the Pickton days? Things have advanced. Canada as a nation needs this kind of database for finding serial murderers:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-tuesday-march-6-2018-1.4563844/data-based-investigation-could-have-led-to-bruce-mcarthur-s-arrest-much-sooner-says-expert-1.4564574

Thinking back to unsolved cold cases, like the victims of the bootlace killer in the Montreal area during the 1970s, and other unsolved Canadian murders, like Sonia Varaschin and Audrey Gleave. It's foolish to dismiss the possibility of serial murderers in our country, and even more foolish for individual and sometimes very small police forces to solve serial murders. They lack the funds, resources and manpower. The time is now to cooperate nationwide. It's time for all police forces in this country to share information, including crime scene DNA (which contrary to popular belief is still not being done by all police forces). Current events in the Gay Village in Toronto should serve as a warning. Old-fashioned police work simply isn't enough to find serial murderers who move all over the country and continent.

Thinking of Kelly Cook, Sonia Varaschin, Audrey Gleave and Theresa Allore, among many others, including the MMIW.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 07, 2018, 07:13:41 PM
makes sense wellwell;  Common sense suggests police files at all levels of government from municipal to provincial to national, would serve an overall better purpose if shared for the purpose of zeroing in on crime.  These people we pay to protect and serve all seem to drift toward control and self service at all levels of government.  Why:  because KNOWLEDGE (FACTS) IS POWER AND POWER IS PRESTIGE AND PROFIT.  IMO~   i'LL WAGER HALF OF THE GUILTY WHO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS  DO SO DUE TO DETECTIVES, POLITICIANS, AND PUBLIC OFFICIALS WHO HIDE AND/OR CONTROL DOCUMENTS AND TESTS, THAT WERE PAID FOR BY US - THE PUBLIC~
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 11, 2018, 08:37:24 PM
I was on the Shelly-Ann Bacsu page because of an article in today's Calgary Herald. The article mentioned 147 boxes of case file work, in addition to evidence that is stored elsewhere. The boxes were moved from the Hinton detachment to the cold case investigation office.

It occurred to me that I've never read about how many boxes of paperwork exist in Kelly's case. Here we have two teenagers who disappeared about two years apart from small Alberta towns. Both cases went cold. Both families have no answers. Sometimes I wonder if both cases are related...dark-haired school girls.

Here's the article.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/rcmp-historical-homicide-unit-races-against-time-to-solve-alberta-cold-cases/wcm/67b381de-927c-4bdb-8e99-59e9fb744aa9

Any ideas as to why Kelly Cook's case is with the Serious Crimes Unit and not the cold case team?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on March 11, 2018, 10:12:46 PM
interesting article wellwell!  It confirms a few things for me.

... that the Historical Case Unit (now handling Kelly Cook case) merely sit on tons of boxes of information, tips, and facts regarding such cases, but they don't actually go out and investigate and gather more information.  - which is the opposite of what they could be doing since they still get tips on these cold cases, and now have dna and other advances that could be powerful tools if the tips were handled right and new evidence dug up and tested - for example:  they have made no effort, as far as I know, to investigate and search the properties and belongings of a "possible suspect" handed to them in  tips in the last few years. ... even though they have plenty of information that would put him in Standard at the time, and able and capable of such a crime ... and one picture of him taken a few years before Kelly's disappearance, is the exact "real life image" of the suspect drawing that has been put forward since years.  Even though the drawing is perceived by many to resemble many men, this suspect doesn't just resemble the drawing;  it is exactly what you would expect a drawing of this man to be.

... In addition to this, the story wellwell supplied in the previous post states that the reason they are concentrating on one case in particular, (Shelly-Ann Bascu) is because the family of the missing girl pushed them into it.  - as opposed to victims of families being set aside and/or forgotten because their family members have passed on, given up, or for some reason choose to trust in the authorities to "do the right thing" for their loved one?

Although I am glad they are also including the Stephanie Steward case... and others, I don't expect any miracles.  One thing does cross my mind however:  I wonder if they feel it is more logical and practical to keep digging into missing, but never found - in case there is a possibility (in theory) that such victim/s are still out there somewhere ... alive, brainwashed, held against their will, etc?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 11, 2018, 10:50:24 PM
In 1991, there were 19 file boxes for Kelly Cook's case, according to a post by discus: « Reply #954 on: October 29, 2013, 02:47:43 PM ».


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 12, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
interesting article wellwell!  It confirms a few things for me.

... that the Historical Case Unit (now handling Kelly Cook case) merely sit on tons of boxes of information, tips, and facts regarding such cases, but they don't actually go out and investigate and gather more information.  - which is the opposite of what they could be doing since they still get tips on these cold cases, and now have dna and other advances that could be powerful tools if the tips were handled right and new evidence dug up and tested - for example:  they have made no effort, as far as I know, to investigate and search the properties and belongings of a "possible suspect" handed to them in  tips in the last few years. ... even though they have plenty of information that would put him in Standard at the time, and able and capable of such a crime ... and one picture of him taken a few years before Kelly's disappearance, is the exact "real life image" of the suspect drawing that has been put forward since years.  Even though the drawing is perceived by many to resemble many men, this suspect doesn't just resemble the drawing;  it is exactly what you would expect a drawing of this man to be.

... In addition to this, the story wellwell supplied in the previous post states that the reason they are concentrating on one case in particular, (Shelly-Ann Bascu) is because the family of the missing girl pushed them into it.  - as opposed to victims of families being set aside and/or forgotten because their family members have passed on, given up, or for some reason choose to trust in the authorities to "do the right thing" for their loved one?

Although I am glad they are also including the Stephanie Steward case... and others, I don't expect any miracles.  One thing does cross my mind however:  I wonder if they feel it is more logical and practical to keep digging into missing, but never found - in case there is a possibility (in theory) that such victim/s are still out there somewhere ... alive, brainwashed, held against their will, etc?

I am hoping that Kelly Cook's case was transferred from the Standard detachment to the Serious Crimes Unit because the police are still getting and investigating leads, or because they had and still have a suspect, but don't have enough evidence to move forward with charges. I really don't know, because the HHU is in its infancy. What does it take for a case to get access to the Historical Homicide Unit? Ten years old, all leads dried up, plus a request by family members of the victim?

Considering the high profile of Kelly's disappearance and murder at the time, it was kind of shocking to me that her case file is seven times smaller than Shelly-Ann Bacsu's. I have no idea if small case files contain better quality evidence, or if Kelly's case was left in the hands of the local detachment without adequate manpower to produce results. How could a small detachment possibly find time to investigate, what with highway patrol, etc. eating up most of the budget? Small detachments were funded by the local tax base in these rural areas. Part of me wonders if Kelly's family got the short end of the stick because the local powers did not want money spent on a family who did not have a long history in the town. If that's the case, those local politicians have this cold case on their consciences (How did the killer happen to pick a newcomer?) The RCMP Serious Crimes Unit came along later -- too late for Kelly, especially since her killer left her in another part of the province, where another local detachment had jurisdiction. How much skill and experience did local RCMP, normally responsible for handling drunk drivers and property crimes, have in  homicide investigation? Little to none is my guess.

Hinton is close enough to Jasper that I wonder if Shelly-Ann's investigation benefitted from Jasper RCMP involvement. Sadly, it does sound like these cases languish on shelves in local detachments, which is all the more reason for databases where information could be shared nationwide with the click of as mouse, even in cold cases. At this rate, a murderer simply has to move to a town in the next RCMP detachment's jurisdiction to get away scot-free. Kelly's killer could havelived in nearby Drumheller, and no one would have known.

Sure, not all murders are solved, but it sure seems like the cookie-cutter, piecemeal approaches of the past need to go. That is one lesson to take away from all this.

Edited for clarity and typos.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on March 12, 2018, 01:12:30 PM
Some thoughts I've meant to share:

1. Not a surprise that someone in Standard or Strathmore drove a North American make of car in 1981. That's what the dealerships in small-town Alberta sold in those days. In fact, that's what almost everyone in Alberta drove back then.

2. Many farmers had a habit of trading in their cars for a new one every few years. They would drive these cars into town to do business, like shopping and going to the bank. Pickup trucks were farm vehicles, for the farm. Status was a new, shiny boat of a car. The car Kelly's killer drove could have been due for a trade, if owned by a farmer at the time. Or was it a recent trade-in headed somewhere else?

3. Possible Alberta plates? What about farm plates for purple gas?

www.producer.com/1999/01/alberta-puts-brakes-on-use-of-purple-gas/

A farm kid would have noticed, as the plate numbers were a different colour from regular plates. Is this why "possible Alberta plates" was the phrase used? A townie, especially a recent arrival from another province, might not have known the difference. Farm plates would indicate a farmer.

4. Was there a Greyhound Bus dropoff or courier outlet at the local hotel or gas station in Standard in 1981? There is a Greyhound depot at a gas bar in Strathmore now.

5. Vehicle parts were shipped out from the city on Greyhound buses on a daily basis. If your car broke down in rural Alberta, you might have to wait overnight until the part arrived on a bus. This still happens, BTW.

6. Did Kelly's killer have an accent of any kind? Believe it or not, there were variations in accents in rural Alberta even then, due to different language groups. A local would recognize accent variations, and which language group they belonged to.

7. A nationwide postal strike shut down the mail from late June to mid-August in 1981. Considering that email didn't exist and fax machines hadn't come into common use, did this affect the investigation?

www.nytimes.com/1981/08/12/world/canada-s-postal-strike-ends-6-weeks-mail-awaits-sorting.html

Canada had a history of wildcat strikes back then, and any rumor of impending shutdown meant that people started looking for alternatives to sending things by mail beforehand. See Greyhound above. Also, there were local courier/express companies sending things between the towns and the nearest city every day. Was there a courier/hotshot pickup point in Standard in 1981, and where?

CPIC did exist back then. Communication was mostly by telephone and mail. Telex machines were still in use.

https://nationalpardon.org/cpic-look-canadas-police-information-database/
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2018, 09:09:04 PM
Today marks the 37th anniversary (if you can call it that) of Kelly Cook's abduction. The case is still unsolved.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2018, 09:18:03 PM
Nice to see you still caring and paying attention Aaron. Is it OK to ask why, I believe you said you weren't family?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on May 05, 2018, 07:57:53 PM
http://www.drumhellermail.com/news/30649-37-years-later-kelly-cook-murder-remains-unsolved

Marnie Kathol, from the article:

"While she understands that the case being in the public discourse could be helpful, at the same time there is a community of amateur sleuths online who may get carried away.

“I have been contacted by people that are very much involved in these (sleuth) sites, and with the couple people I have been contacted by, in no way are they helping. They are very quick to point fingers at people…I think it is a form of slander myself when they print these people’s names on these websites,” she said.

She hopes that with the proper information out there, it may help with a break in the case.

“That is what we believe, and I think that is what the RCMP believe, that it is going to come from someone,” she said. “They told us years ago it would more than likely be solved through a deathbed confession or a turn of events in people’s lives. A scorned wife or girlfriend who would just say, ‘I’m not keeping your secret anymore.’"

It's very likely those deathbed confessions never came. The girlfriends/wives may have passed away now, too. And without DNA or more eyewitness accounts, this case is unlikely to be solved. Kelly's killer got away with murder.



Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on May 07, 2018, 11:02:53 PM
"connect the dots" ? or investigate all tips.... especially those that come from ex-wives or now grown-up family of "possible suspect/s" ... I don't think they have; I think they don't investigate some people because they are influential and/or untouchable .. or else, they have not got the time or manpower.. just my opinion, of course!

I hope the previous remarks that originate from Marnie Kathol are not directed at this site.  The only names I've seen on this site, that have been discussed, are those of previous convicted and/or publicized offenders -  those who have committed such crimes already ... such as abducting young girls (often, using a ruse to do so). 

We all know, on here that one such possible suspect has not been named here, but has been reported to the Historic Crime Unit supposedly investigating Kelly's murder.  The information given the investigators came from family of a possible suspect who has done time for molesting... and was most likely in Standard when Kelly disappeared.  This is a prime example of family carrying such information from the time of Kelly's murder, until a few years ago, when they no longer feared him because he was behind bars for what he had done to his own daughter while she was a young girl .... and what they faced he had done to others back then also. 
It has been more than two years since that family went to the authorities;  they actually had to hound police to take the information;  and as far as I know, police have still not confronted the man - who btw is out of jail now.  A picture of that man taken two or three years before Kelly's murder shows he is a perfect match for the "suspect sketch".... but this man came from an influential family with business ties and his father was a powerful military figure as well.  .... fair to say:  he probably wasn't even considered back when it happened, because of who he was.  .... a big name untouchable in a little town!
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on May 09, 2018, 09:10:40 PM
It wasn't so long ago that a colonel serving in the RCAF was initially missed as a suspect in a series of B&Es, sexual assaults and murders. He was a base commander. His status in the small community where he lived didn't make him untouchable forever, so now he's serving a life sentence.

It's hard to imagine a tiny little RCMP detachment in early 1980s rural Alberta having the resources to investigate a case of the magnitude of Kelly's disappearance. I don't imagine any of the local officers were homicide detectives. Local taxes paid for local policing. I suspect they did the best they could with whatever resources they had. But I believe they didn't have the resources they needed. I also know that people in that area were interconnected by memberships in service clubs and fraternal orders and the like. Brothers wouldn't turn on brothers. Maybe it's those brothers who should be asking the question, "What if it had been my daughter or sister?" And fast, because they are getting any younger.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on May 27, 2018, 09:34:39 AM
Speaking of naming names, why do some people from the Standard area who remember 1981 still call Kelly Cook's killer "Bill"?

Is it because they don't know what else to call him, or is it a slip of the tongue? Is "Bill" his real name?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on May 31, 2018, 11:04:52 PM
I realize this was a long time ago but what was the deadline for getting fishing huts off the Chin Reservoir in 1981? And what was the deadline for getting them off the shore? Did everyone have the old-style wooden huts back then, with woodstoves, etc.?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 01, 2018, 07:49:18 AM
I noticed one article in Alberta fishing guide, where in 2013, the deadline for ice huts off lakes etc. was March 31.  So go back 22 yrs. and there may have been no deadline.... or else, problems with such garbage after winter sports fishing had to be addressed and acted on at some point (what year?)  It would be interesting to know who had cabins or ice huts at Chin Lake that Easter weekend (good project for someone in the area - finding out "who all" occupied the area that weekend - what they did all weekend - what they noticed all that weekend!   AND WHERE THEY WERE WHEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THEIR CAR, TRUCK, OR CABIN RADIO THAT KELLY COOK WAS MISSING... especially anyone spending the nights there and not going home for Easter weekend.  I'll bet the police never even "went there"!  ;) All through this thread, I have always referred to that weekend of April 22, 1981 as Easter;  please, someone correct me if it wasn't Easter weekend that she disappeared.
 modifying here to say:  I just went to a calendar archive for 1981;  it states Easter as April 19 that year.  Kelly went missing the 22nd according to the title line of this thread for her.  which meant she went missing on the Wednesday after Easter weekend.  Why did nobody correct that fact when I started to stray on it, way back when! ?  I'm guessing that I at some point in this or the previous thread, always connected her disappearance to Easter weekend in order to jog memories of readers on the thread.

Here is a very interesting link... especially for those of you who are "waterways savy";  it shows depths in all parts of the lake... and especially, shows every range road and cow path into Chin Lake.  Impressive, I must say.  Kind of thing that would have come in handy for any quick thinking investigator back in 1981.  ... but then again????

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/49.6350/-112.2150

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 01, 2018, 08:00:10 AM
by zooming + and - on the map, and/or just pulling it up or down, you will notice Brooks, Taber etc.
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#10/49.7015/-112.1681
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 01, 2018, 11:58:39 AM
I noticed one article in Alberta fishing guide, where in 2013, the deadline for ice huts off lakes etc. was March 31.  So go back 22 yrs. and there may have been no deadline.... or else, problems with such garbage after winter sports fishing had to be addressed and acted on at some point (what year?)  It would be interesting to know who had cabins or ice huts at Chin Lake that Easter weekend (good project for someone in the area - finding out "who all" occupied the area that weekend - what they did all weekend - what they noticed all that weekend!   AND WHERE THEY WERE WHEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THEIR CAR, TRUCK, OR CABIN RADIO THAT KELLY COOK WAS MISSING... especially anyone spending the nights there and not going home for Easter weekend.  I'll bet the police never even "went there"!  ;) All through this thread, I have always referred to that weekend of April 22, 1981 as Easter;  please, someone correct me if it wasn't Easter weekend that she disappeared.
 modifying here to say:  I just went to a calendar archive for 1981;  it states Easter as April 19 that year.  Kelly went missing the 22nd according to the title line of this thread for her.  which meant she went missing on the Wednesday after Easter weekend.  Why did nobody correct that fact when I started to stray on it, way back when! ?  I'm guessing that I at some point in this or the previous thread, always connected her disappearance to Easter weekend in order to jog memories of readers on the thread.

Here is a very interesting link... especially for those of you who are "waterways savy";  it shows depths in all parts of the lake... and especially, shows every range road and cow path into Chin Lake.  Impressive, I must say.  Kind of thing that would have come in handy for any quick thinking investigator back in 1981.  ... but then again????

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/49.6350/-112.2150

I went online to look at wooden fishing huts for sale. One I found could sleep five, had a furnace, fridge, etc.

I wonder if Kelly Cook's killer to her to Chin Reservoir directly after he picked her up. It's obvious to me that he chose a familiar place to dump her.  The Chin was one of his fishing spots, IMO.

If he took her to a fishing hut on the still-frozen reservoir, would anyone have noticed or heard anything, especially if they were running generators? Did he chose a figure skater because he knew he could overpower her due to her size, and what about disposing of her through the auger hole? It is windy at Chin in the winter, so it makes sense that concrete cinder blocks and things like chains would be on hand.

I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

My opinion only.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 01, 2018, 05:11:26 PM
Quote
I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

for sure! Step forward.  However; I suspect he took her elsewhere... such as a place of business he had keys to.  ... and waited until he thought best how and when to dump the child's body. :'(

... don't forget, he had to get that big fancy car off the roadways first.... and probably wasn't intending to drive it to the reservoir area .. bad ruts on the roads etc. and a target for attention.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 01, 2018, 05:29:51 PM
Cinder blocks are used to sink fish shelter, like old Christmas trees, into bodies of water. This kind of shelter is said to help the fish. Thereby improving fishing later in the season.

This guy was an experienced fisherman who might have been able to talk his way out if he was seen doing something questionable. He wad so bold that he might have waited until thaw to head out in broad daylight. He was Mr. Invisible.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 01, 2018, 06:55:38 PM
Quote
I noticed that now-Stafford Reservoir is open year-round on the lakes for fishing, but closed on the rivers for several weeks from mid-March to early May. The killer counted on this, timing her murder smack-dab in the middle of that time period, when fewer people were around. But some dedicated fisherman may have seen something out of order, a hut broken into? Please step forward.

for sure! Step forward.  However; I suspect he took her elsewhere... such as a place of business he had keys to.  ... and waited until he thought best how and when to dump the child's body. :'(

... don't forget, he had to get that big fancy car off the roadways first.... and probably wasn't intending to drive it to the reservoir area .. bad ruts on the roads etc. and a target for attention.

There are all kinds of places Kelly’s killer could have hidden, or hidden Kelly, or hidden with Kelly. There used to be coal mines not far away, and old shafts that everyone but the old-time miners have long forgotten. Or he could have simply headed to Highway 1. He did have a head start by a couple of hours before anyone was looking for Kelly. In those pre-Amber Alert days, it’s hard to know how thorough the search was. The head start could have been much more than a couple of hours.

Anyways, I’ve learned that some old-timers will be gathering at another reservoir in the Drumheller area later this month to remember an old friend. I wish that anyone attending would spare a moment to think back all those years ago to 1981. Any stranger/familiar face asking odd questions? Any stories from the fishing hole that raised eyebrows? Any behaviour that stood out back in the day?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 02, 2018, 11:36:15 AM
What a shame that criminal profiling wasn't being done at the time of Kelly's murder. I don't know if it could be done retroactively as part of a cold case investigation, with whatever infomation is available about this man. A lot more is known today about the kind of man who would carefully plan and act out the abduction and murder of a 15-year-old girl. This kind of person is not unique, unfortunately. They follow stereotypical patterns of behavior, and come from cartain backgrounds which form the basis of profiling. There are variations from the "norm", but generally profiling can provide some insight that may be useful to investigators. It's one more tool in the toolbox.

What occurred to me looking back over previous discussion early in this thread was the talk about how doggedly this perp pursued a figure skater. When the first figure skater wasn't available, he waited until he could find another figure skater. I wondered why he went after girls in that club and that town -- did he have a grudge against the town, or just figure skaters? If he had a grudge against figure skaters of that age, why? There were figure skating clubs in other towns in the area, so why that club? Maybe it was just a matter of choosing a club far enough away from where he lived, so that he wouldn't be recognized. Maybe he was a creepy hanger-on at a club where he lived, so he went further afield.

The town might not have mattered so much. A specific girl might not have mattered, but she had to be a figure skater of a certain age. Kelly had a different hair colour from his first target. The choice of Kelly might have been random in that way, simply because she was available and he couldn't keep coming back to the Standard area asking for figure skater babysitters forever, without someone catching on.

I wonder about transference. Did this guy transfer his feelings onto Kelly, a stranger? Was he acting out some scenario that he couldn't act out with the real object of his sick delusions?

Pedophiles don't change. This guy must have committed more than one offence, even if he didn't murder again. IMO, he is completely without remorse, a psychopath.

FWIW:

http://noelbell.net/tag/transference/

What happened to him in his (highly dysfuctional ) family of origin? Families know. And dysfunctional families are very effective at keeping secrets through a system of toxic shame. Intergenerational abuse is a hard nut to crack, but someone in this family needs to break the cycle. Unbroken, these patterns will continue in future generations. The only way out is to spill the beans.

Is it too late? Have the family members died off, and whoever remains is so cowed down and fearful that they won't tell the ugly family secrets? Do they have some false loyalty about preserving the family name and reputation?

It's never to late to try to bring horrible wrongs out of the darkness into the cold light of justice. The truth can set you free.

MOO.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 02, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
I think Kelly Cook's killer fits the predatory stalker profile:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201212/the-predatory-stalker

I believe there was a sexual motive for this abduction and murder. Physical evidence would have been destroyed in the water.

This man is, or was, hiding in plain sight.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on June 03, 2018, 12:23:01 PM
For the many years I've been on this site, I don't remember looking at the information on this case file. But, being a new reader to the information a few items came to mind when reading over half the file so far, but I need clarification on a few items:

- it was mentioned that he called from a gas station, what location was the gas station?
- he tried to find the girl's name that was pictured in the ice skating picture, was that the same girl that was a waitress?
- the girl he spent days hunting down, what were the details of the conversation he had with her about babysitting... type of girl he was looking for if she was not available?- - if he had gone to great lengths to wait for and try to find the identify of the girl in the photo... why would he just give up and look for a babysitter she recommended? It would seem to me that he would have waited until she got off from work and just messed with her... if waited several days to find her identity and talk to her. It seems odd he would move on to another that babysat. Then the focus becomes more on someone who babysat than on the girl that ice skates.
- was he seen at a laundromat? did I read that anywhere, if so what laundromat location?
- was he seen at a hotel, or was that just the hotel bar he was at to ask the girl if she knew of babysitters?
- Was the girl pictured in the newspaper ice skating the same girl he was asking about to the principle and the first girl he approached to see if she could babysit?
- and can someone confirm that the phone call of the screaming person they think is Kelly... was that near or across from an ice arena?
- of the three girls he asked to babysit, were all three ice skaters? Was Kelly an ice skater?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 03, 2018, 03:54:39 PM
For the many years I've been on this site, I don't remember looking at the information on this case file. But, being a new reader to the information a few items came to mind when reading over half the file so far, but I need clarification on a few items:

- it was mentioned that he called from a gas station, what location was the gas station?
- he tried to find the girl's name that was pictured in the ice skating picture, was that the same girl that was a waitress?
- the girl he spent days hunting down, what were the details of the conversation he had with her about babysitting... type of girl he was looking for if she was not available?- - if he had gone to great lengths to wait for and try to find the identify of the girl in the photo... why would he just give up and look for a babysitter she recommended? It would seem to me that he would have waited until she got off from work and just messed with her... if waited several days to find her identity and talk to her. It seems odd he would move on to another that babysat. Then the focus becomes more on someone who babysat than on the girl that ice skates.
- was he seen at a laundromat? did I read that anywhere, if so what laundromat location?
- was he seen at a hotel, or was that just the hotel bar he was at to ask the girl if she knew of babysitters?
- Was the girl pictured in the newspaper ice skating the same girl he was asking about to the principle and the first girl he approached to see if she could babysit?
- and can someone confirm that the phone call of the screaming person they think is Kelly... was that near or across from an ice arena?
- of the three girls he asked to babysit, were all three ice skaters? Was Kelly an ice skater?

This whole incident took place over time. You'll find many of your questions aleady answered in the threads, but some parts of the story are vague and confusing. There were three towns involved: Strathmore, Standard and Hussar (gas station). Landmarks have come and gone. Hussar was pretty small and desolate, if that's the right term. Someone said even the gas station is gone now.

Kelly was a figure skater, who skated with the club in Strathmore. She lived in Standard, where she was abducted.

The original figure skater was blonde. Kelly was brunette.

Hotels had beer offsales. In those days, liquor stores were government-owned, with limited hours. The small hamlets didn't have liquor stores. And besides, even back then liquor stores had security cameras focused on the entrance doors. This guy bought beer at the hotel and complained about the change. He had trouble using a pay phone. Rural pay phones worked differently from city pay phones, but most city people didn't know that.

About the call believed to have come from Kelly, she may have been trying to make a collect call home. Sometimes an operator would answer, but sometimes you'd be told to say your name and an automated system would put the call through while you waited. If she said her name, no one would be looking for her. But She ran out of time.

Kelly had already been gone for about 90 minutes by the time the call went through. She may have already been assaulted by thrn, and her abductor was moving her to a second location. This vould be why the RCMP think she was murdered soon after she was taken, aside from the fact that this is the case in most abduction-murders for that age group. He wouldn't let her live after the phone call.

Kelly's friends and other girls had to grow up in the area knowing he was and still is out there.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 03, 2018, 04:24:15 PM
Why did Kelly's killer choose the name "Bill"? I think it was carefully planned like everything else about this murder. "Bill" was someone he didn't like very much. Bill may have been someone he despised. He could have thought he was very clever by pinning this on Bill: secret revenge.

Another thing I've thought about was the closure of the Atlas Mine in 1981, and that other story involving a stranger looking for babysitters in Canmore. Canmore, like the Drumheller area, has old abandoned mines.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on June 03, 2018, 10:34:23 PM
Thank you WellWell for the summaries. Here is where my mind has been going upon first review....

- I feel the guy was somehow connected to figure skating, or an obsession with figure skaters, or an attraction to that.
- He was 30-40 and described as heavy set of sorts. Possibly rejected at some point in his dating life.
- At 30-40 he could have had his own family with perhaps a daughter in figure skating where he goes to the competitions, skating performance, etc. Or, a hockey player that would see the performance before or after practice or games.
- I get the feeling like a girl in graceful and revealing outfits was something that struck his attention, enough to spend time trying to find a way to get alone with one. Why would that be? Did he attend figure skating events? Have children in figure skating competitions? Work at an ice rink?
- That's why the timeline of the 40-60 minutes after he picked her up, he may have been with her at the ice rink across from the phone. He may have taken her there to fulfill some fetish. Could he have made her perform? Ice skate? Spin? Twirl? Dance on the ice? Did he take her in the ice arena? Or, the parking lot? If he was heavy set, perhaps she tried running. Perhaps she was faster than him being more physically fit. The phone would be her destination... but timing wouldn't allow her a conversation, but hope.
- The fact that she was fully clothed, and possibly made the phone call could mean that he was having her "skate" for him, but had not touched her yet. She ran perhaps and then he had to murder her (in his mind) without finishing his original intent.
- It wasn't necessarily that he was following the original figure skater he saw in the newspaper, but a skater if he didn't mind being referred to another one. That's why I'm wondering when he asked the original figure skater of interest and she wasn't available, if he asked if she know of other "skaters" or another skater on her team who babysat? That's why I really wanted to know if the conversation was ever fully disclosed.


- It's interesting that city folk may not know how phones work like rural folk. That gives us a clue that he may have not lived there. Confirmed by others not recognizing him in the small town. But, yet familiar enough to be around the ice arena with an abducted ice skater. What is the ice skating connection?
- One of the reasons I was interested in knowing about the laundromat is that would also confirm that he did not live around there, but long enough to need his clothes washed. More transient then, perhaps rather than living near or living there. Still don't know if it was confirmed that he used the laundromat.

- The river Kelly was found in is of interest. It would seem rather easy for him to dump her over a bridge, but if the distance signifies that could not have happened, I'm really wondering how he would have had access to a boat to take her into the lake. He had a car, but where did the boat come from if he wasn't from the area?
- If he was a fisher, do they typically keep their boats in the area somewhere? Who checked out their boat around that time.
- If you are not from the area how did that spot become viable? How did the means become available?
- I get the feeling he lived away from the area, but in a bigger city atmosphere. He perhaps fished in the area. He somehow went to ice arenas... was he a hockey player, parent of an ice skater who went to competitions? Worked at the ice arena and had access in?
- When younger did he have a crush on an ice skater that rejected him?

- The fact that he contracted her for babysitting, he knew he had limited timeframe before someone would be searching for her. That makes me believe that he may have had children himself, found it easy to hire a babysitter, knew the timeframe... because lets face it, disposing of her body in the river when a search was likely would be risky at best, unless he was on his own self-imposed 1-3 hour timeframe for all to be done and he be back home.
- Did he have the boat in waiting as part of the evenings events? Perhaps with cinder blocks in it?

It feels like the ice arena, the ice skater, the fishing locations have an odd connection. Far enough away to be unfamiliar with phones, close enough to be known to find a boat and rid of the body fairly quickly before all were searching for her. It feels like the events would happen all in one night because it would be too risky to try to dispose of her in the days after, in the area of question.

Just some first impressions. Open to them being picked apart.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 04, 2018, 10:38:23 AM

I think it is very helpful to get a fresh set of eyes. My summary of two threads' worth of information is scant and inadequate, but there you go.

I remember this because it happened soon after a happy event in my family, and my family was connected to a family in the area. I remember phone calls to my parents. With so many other things going on in the news in those days, like young women disappearing along the Trans-Canada Highway, Clifford Olson, and later the murders at Wells Grey Provincial Park in B.C., the west seemed like a very unsafe place. It's always easier to blame an outsider than to look closer to home, so maybe that's how this guy was overlooked. He wasn't really an outsider.

I do think skating and the arena had everything to fo with this. I've thought about things like a Zamboni repair man or a refrigeration technician, but what you say makes the most sense. He was someone with a reason to visit arenas without standing out. That could be someone who played recreational hockey, or had kids who played hockey, or kids who  figure skated. There was mention of a skate meet held in Strathmore, with photos published in the local newspaper, so maybe he was there.

The RCMP said Kelly was dressed when she was found. But in what? In cases elsewhere, they have described clothing, for example, wearing a blue coat, etc. but no shoes. They said she had not been sexually assaulted. But I get the feeling that they could not have known this, due to the state of decomposition. Finding a body in clothing does not mean that a sex crime has not occurred. This was a careless statement, IMO, perhaps made to spare the family any further suffering. Kelly could have been re-dressed. Or was that aplan that went awry?

They said that the suspect was heavyset at 160 lbs. and 5'10". Really? That is well within the ideal weight guidelines for a man that height.

It was April and this man had a tan? From a recent trip to a warm place or was his swarthy look a natural skin colour all year round for him?

I think he msy have had children of his own, which made the babysitting ruse convincing. The specific contents of the conversation with the girl who provided Kelly's nsme were not revealed. These girls went to school with country kids. But I think he chose a girl from town, because it was eadier to convince her that he "knew" her neighbors, when he could look their names up in a phone book, reverse directory or in a Henderson's directory at the local library. Plus, many rural phone lines were still on the party system or partial party system, where nosey neighbors listened in. It would have been around spring breakup time, and some dirt roads may roads may have been impassable. It wouldn't do to get stuck during an abduction, so he used improved roads and paved roads.

There have been bodies found in Carseland over the years, downstream from the dam  It serms to be a dumping ground. There are lakes like McGregor Lske and Newell Lake that are for irrigation and recreational use. People are often towing boats at that time of year. Maybe moving them to the water after the winter as they prepare for boating season? I think Chin Reservoir would still have been frozen, but with  some open patches of water. Rivers and lakes don't freeze now like they used to, but 1981 was an early spring. He may have moved Kelly to that location later: if so, it was risky because the media had everyone on the lookout for Kelly.

Did he even need a boat or have a boat? Did he dump kelly from an ice fishing hut? Did he drive around with a concrete block and ropes or go to an ice fishing hut where he knew he'd find these things?

I do think the girl had to be a figure skater. This guy was acting out some fantasy that he couldn 't act out on his home turf. Maybe it was a revenge fantasy to get back at "Bill," or retaliate for a previous rejection in his life, involving a man named "Bill" and a figure skater. Kelly was just there.

More for you:

https://shows.pippa.io/unsolved-mysteries-of-the-world/the-unsolved-abduction-murder-of-kelly-cook-s01e10
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 04, 2018, 02:55:09 PM
Concerned, grain is typically shipped to market before the  new growing season. Trains and crew would have been coming and going in the broader area. Trucks would have been hauling grain around. Strathmore has a cattle stockyard. And cows and calves would have been hauled around to and from auction. Fertilizer and seed orders would have been made and new farm equipment would have been arriving at dealerships. So it might have been easy to overlook a new face in town.

Maybe it is tilting at windmills to think this guy can still be found, but what if he did this again to some other girl or woman? I understand Marnie Kathol's need to move forward. She is free to do so, but I hope that this file is not abandoned by the RCMP. Murder is murder.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 04, 2018, 04:12:55 PM
Who liked to fish at Chin (now Stafford) Reservoir, and kept returning there again and again, starting in April 1981?

He drove two hours and 25 minutes for a reason.

https://goo.gl/maps/FsgnH7NZXh52
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 04, 2018, 05:41:42 PM
Good to see people still trying to put it all together for Kelly. I don’t know what to say about Marnie Athol’s conclusions about online sleuthing but suspect I am one of those she refers too. Quote-
Quote
Marnie Kathol, from the article:

"While she understands that the case being in the public discourse could be helpful, at the same time there is a community of amateur sleuths online who may get carried away.

“I have been contacted by people that are very much involved in these (sleuth) sites, and with the couple people I have been contacted by, in no way are they helping. They are very quick to point fingers at people…I think it is a form of slander myself when they print these people’s names on these websites,” she said.

It is true that posters can get carried away and sometimes can have ulterior motives but it can also be that they truly have some information or suspicion that needs to be checked out. Of course they should go to the RCMP investigators first and foremost if there is any chance of it being entertained. If you fail to comply there, you are pretty well out of luck. There are very few “valid” reasons to disregard that process. Having said so, that also cuts out a lot of viable online sleuthing clues and information..

Most everyone involved in a cold case holds out some tiny last lingering hopes for a death bed confession from the perp or something similar from an ex or associate of the killer. I thought I had heard that from someone at one time in my younger days in regard Kelly but things are not always what they seem and can become very dark and murky. By being on this board, I had hoped to at least settle it within myself as to whether the confession I heard could be valid or not. The doubts still linger despite all that has been said and discussed since. It was the recent comments on the weather and ice conditions at the Chin Lake reservoir at the time of Kelly’s murder that rekindled a few questions. Was the reservoir ice free and was it possible to have placed Kelly’s body in the water by wading in from shore? I know that the weather in most other years would have made that difficult or impossible but I am not convinced it wasn’t possible that year. An unusual situation known to the killer and verbalized years later?  A tell?

Like wellwell, I had some peripheral exposure to all of this in the past at the time of occurance. Through an acquaintance, I came to know the girlfriend of a man recently released from the Drumheller penitentiary back in 1980. She used to stop by my place to use the phone so she wouldn’t be caught talking to whoever it was she was speaking with. I over heard some of that. She was from Strathmore and was very interested in what happened to Kelly. I soon discovered why when she said to her boyfriend one day, that’s your picture they are circulating out there and that’s the description of your car. What are you going to do about it? He responded, he didn’t care and that was the end of it. I was curious and learned that he had grown a moustache and permed his hair before moving out to BC with his gal. A car showed up in his possession later on freshly painted after having been stored in a barn for a year or two. Despite that, I heard her on the phone saying “Arnold did it” and expressing how surprising it was given his age. This girl was from a criminal family and was continuing along that course herself. She was of the do not rat for any reason type.

Years later I attended court one afternoon in regard these people and saw first hand something quite unusual. The boyfriend of this woman was to testify. They cleared the courtroom and put a gag order on anything he would say. The transcript of his testimony was completely blanked out, not one word released except his name. As far as I could tell, there was nothing in the content that warranted that. His ex wife was head of psychological services Alberta. So of course questions lingered what he was all about. His car was a 1968 Cadillac painted a dark brown from the original goldish color. He wore large dark old style sunglasses. In the back of the car was a light weight blue windbreaker with some sort of logo on the back. He matches up in some ways save his girlfriend being convinced “Arnold” did it.

So by coincidence years later I meet a guy who confesses to killing Kelly. So happens it is Terry Arnold. Probably one of the strangest people and strangest conversations I’ve had in my life. He becomes very talkative as if the flood gates had been opened and he wants to brag.

I had also met Barb Stoppel in the past. I knew what she said. T.A. wanted a picture Barb had of herself in a figure skaters outfit. He was near obsessed with it. T.A. was Barb’s driver on the way to and from BC back to Winnipeg after working for the carnival that summer. Barb described stopping at some lake in Alberta with a beautiful long bridge on a beautiful summer day. She thought it one of the prettiest places she had seen. She wanted to go swimming, even skinny dipping but didn’t as Arnold was present. I wonder if this was Chin Lake. Barb was murdered the year after Kelly apparently by T.Arnold.

So was there any truth to what he said in regard Kelly ? Most everyone else has discounted his confession as a false confession mainly due his age. I wish it were that simple and easy for me to say that was the end of it as far as T Arnold is concerned but I can’t. I haven’t heard of any other confessions nor of some of the detail Arnold claimed to know. I have that uneasy feel that he has slipped off the hook in regard Kelly and that there may be more at play than we know. I’m not going into that side of things as I know how that goes. For some anything outside their own knowledge or above their paygrade is improbable conspiracy theory type stuff. Others are willing to swallow almost anything. How do you wade through that sort of quagmire? You don’t, which is why I am happy to see Kelly still being spoken of in regard any suspect and for her name to be brought up again and again. Maybe someday something breaks..  All those questions being asked are good, it is only the truth we seek..
Best of luck…

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 04, 2018, 06:38:19 PM
Police never seem to interfere with boats and fish huts hauled by trucks... they like fishing too ;). The idea of Kelly being dropped through a fishing hole is very logical.  Guys often take planks and big bricks to sit on in those huts... to keep up off the ice.  Good call on that imo ~
Her body was sufficiently "weighed down" to sink directly where she was dropped;  so it would be interesting to mark on a map exactly where her body was found..... then poster it around Standard to Chin lake area for fisherman from April, 1981 to ponder who had a hut in that spot.  ... never know whose memory it might jog .... maybe grasping at straws on this forum, but not much left when the authorities turned away from Kelly for whatever reasons.  Poor Mr. Cook must be turning over in his grave;  any hope for justice died with him I'd say. :'(
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 04, 2018, 08:54:52 PM
We've lost a lot of images and links material in the last re-incarnation of this forum after it was hacked last year.  I was thinking it might be a good idea to start a new thread of Suspects we considered for Kelly's murder and why (including their picture and why we considered them) .... as opposed to "pointing fingers at just anyone".  These people had criminal history that made them stand out as possible suspects;  they did time and made the news over and over. 
D1's favorite was Terry Arnold

I had two favorites:  Bill Christensen and Obie Chandler

albeit; over the years, we also found new matches, and best match came from the family of someone seemingly untouchable by RCMP since he came from one of the most prosperous and prominent father's in the area.  He did time for molesting his own daughter and she and his first wife suspected him for years for Kelly's death.  Even though he was in the news 2 yrs. ago in medicine hat, we decided it best not discuss him as it would put those who came forward in danger.  But I have plenty information on him, as does the serious crime unit in charge of Kelly's case.  Anyone who has attended this thread and worked vigorously for Kelly over the years, can message me privately with an email address to get a look at him and the info. I've compiled.  (I know who you loyal crew are).  He has the exact face of the original composite - which I cannot post on the forum because it was shared with me confidentially, but that doesn't mean you can't get to see it.

In the meantime, the first guy below is Terry Arnold altered to see if he is a match for the composite.
The second guy is Bill Christensen .... one of many names this guy used over the years.  the pic of him is when he reached his 50's... he still looks like the composite even at an older age.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 05, 2018, 12:31:17 AM
There are already two threads on Kelly. I had a personal encounter with one potential suspect. I've already said all I can about that. I would like to confirm whether Chin Lake was ice free when Kelly was killed. That's all.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on June 05, 2018, 04:40:28 AM
Thank you all for your patience as I try to read through the threads. I'm away at the moment, but when I get back in a few days I'll try to educate myself more. Your insight is very helpful. In my mind I'm trying to make a timeline, a map and a list of the known facts. So much information in these threads. I can tell you all have really cared. I'll try to get up to par in the next few days. Thanks for all the information. Just trying to figure out what was important, known and what was speculative and in which ways.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 05, 2018, 09:23:44 AM
There are already two threads on Kelly. I had a personal encounter with one potential suspect. I've already said all I can about that. I would like to confirm whether Chin Lake was ice free when Kelly was killed. That's all.

That's tough to find. You might have better luck looking up historical weather. It did occur to me, though, that if this guy was involved with the irrigation district, he would know about the lower water levels in the reservoir. A dedicated fisherman would be keeping tabs on the thaw, too, because at a certain point, the ice could fail.

This guy was a risk-taker.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 05, 2018, 10:17:44 AM
It is my opinion that Kelly's killer was no longer in Standard by the time Kelly's parents started looking for her. It is also my opinion that he took her to Chin Lakes Reservoir near Taber, passing several other (frozen) lakes because he knew he could dispose of her in the water there. He had planned this abduction and murder. He was prepared. He knew Chin Lakes. It was far enough away that it would take time fpr anyone to find Kelly. Who would think to look there? But everyone in Southern Alberta was on alert because police had asked them to keep their eyes open in the ongoing news stories. He didn't consider the low water levels, or Kelly might never have been found. He overlooked this detail, or didn't care.

What would geographical profiling reveal about this?

I understand that it is very unusual for a murderer to take a body this far from the crime scene, so it had to be a place that he knew well. I think he returned there, indicating that it was near his home, but far enough away to avoid suspicion. If he had a wife and friends, they would have known how special this fishing spot was to him.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 05, 2018, 06:17:56 PM
If anyone comes across some actual weather data from that year, please post it. My recollection is that it was an unusually warm winter out there. But need actual verification of some kind.   

I have left all the info I can on T. Arnold for anyone wanting to look. No need for additional space on him.
Quote
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?board=84.0

In regard the Strathmore couple who moved to BC shortly after Kelly's murder, the woman (G.S.)was convinced that the sketch of Kelly's killer that was being circulated was of her boyfriend (G.H.). She seemed to know who T. Arnold was too. G.H.'s car description matches that of the one being sought. G.H. himself was about 5'10" but heavy chested and about 200 lbs. He wore sunglasses of the type seen in the sketch. Later when the perm came out of his hair, his hair style hairline was akin to that in the sketch. He was about 32 years old at the time. At one point he said that he used to talk in a rapid demanding fashion like someone we had just been listening too. I wondered about all of this. Was T. Arnold an associate of these people and is that sketch a compilation of maybe two people? Some of the descriptors, 5'10" heavy set yet only 160 lbs. do not quite make sense. What I do know is that the woman from Strathmore, G.S. had become convinced that a young person named "Arnold" was Kelly's killer. How she came to that conclusion I do not know and that's where I left it.

The man named Arnold that I later met, claimed responsibility for Kelly's murder and several others. Yes this is a strange sequence of events even to me. He is virtually verified as being the killer of the others he named. In the details left, he claimed to have walked Kelly's body out from shore..  Hence the questions about weather and ice conditions that specific year. Maybe he was just bragging and making things up but how do you know without chasing as much of it down as possible? It has been left inconclusive..
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 05, 2018, 07:36:35 PM
He could walk out from shore on ice... like to an ice hut maybe  :-\  ... and as old and losing data in this old head, as I am, I could have sworn I put the environmental / ice conditions for that day, on the first Kelly thread.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on June 05, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
I recall you or someone posting all that weather in the past, Lost.

eta: Okay, I started with thread # 1 and couldn't find the weather postings however they are posted 5 pages back here:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.150

Also the first 15 pages or so of thread # 1, either AaronP or CCF posted a newspaper weather report in conjunction with the find of Kelly, for April around 22nd and it was stated that there was a drought situation and the water was lower than normal and that was the only reason Kelly was found.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 06, 2018, 09:34:59 AM
that's what I mean about so much info. getting "hacked out" last year;  when you click on links or pictures, all you get is a "format not supported" link.  Someone sure cleaned out a lot in that hack back then. 

It just seems like all the information was deliberately affected by the hacking:  In December,1981 there was so much ice already on the lake/s, imagine how deep that ice was by March.... probably frozen to the bottom in all the shallow areas... which would mean a deep spot would be needed to submerge a weighted-down body. 

Quote
In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.135
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 06, 2018, 11:03:21 AM
that's what I mean about so much info. getting "hacked out" last year;  when you click on links or pictures, all you get is a "format not supported" link.  Someone sure cleaned out a lot in that hack back then. 

It just seems like all the information was deliberately affected by the hacking:  In December,1981 there was so much ice already on the lake/s, imagine how deep that ice was by March.... probably frozen to the bottom in all the shallow areas... which would mean a deep spot would be needed to submerge a weighted-down body. 

Quote
In 2014, Chin Lakes area had up to 14 inches of ice on it in December ... how much ice is on it by March some years?  ... and with very low water level in 1981, how much ice may still have been on it?    ........... just thinking out loud in this post!!!
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.135

The page linked mentions Lutheran camps. This is just background, but I've mentioned the Lutheran church the Cooks attended, wondering if there was a connection that way. If he did have children, it is possible that they may have attended a church summer camp, religious or not. It is possible he attended community gatherings at the church, religious or not. Churches serve as gathering places for community events in small towns. Maybe he attended a wedding there.

The school in Standard is K-12, so children of all ages knew each other, from the whole catchment area, which extends well beyond Standard out into the country.

And if you look at the street names, they reference Denmark: Christian and Frederick (Kings of Denmark), Elsinore (or the Kronborg castle at Helsingor, believed to be Shakespeare's setting for Hamlet), then there's Hamlet and Yorick. In Denmark, the Lutheran church is the Church of Denmark.

It is no secret that Standard had Danish settlers and Danish families still living in the area. Christianson is a patronymic meaning Christian's son. And then there were the Cooks, non-Danish and relative newcomers from Montreal who attended the Lutheran church. I think a Danish descandant living in Standard in 1981 wouldn't have known this "Christianson", and wouldn't have believed him, so he needed an outsider he could trick.

Someone mentioned a chainsaw. but if this murderer did drill through ice, an ice auger is the usual tool. It takes upper body strength to use a power ice auger (and it's noisy), so this guy may have had all his bulk in his upper body.

Still thinking of how this guy could look bulky at a scrawny 160 lbs., did he play old-timer hockey with a team that sometimes played in Standard?

And yes, he needed darkness to carry out his plan. It's really hard to identify passing cars in the dark when you're staring into headlights. This is why I think he moved Kelly somewhere that night. There are two crime scenes that we know of, but there could be more.

Finally if he were to wear a hat, ballcaps are the thing and were then. He obviously had some vanity about ruining his 'do. A ballcap is a better disguise. But then, this guy didn't need one, as it's 37 years later without a name.

Hoping some oldtimer hockey players from those days will think back.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 06, 2018, 12:33:09 PM
Going back to a previous point, we know little about what Kelly's killer wore.

If an occasional visitor to town usually wore winter coveralls, workboots and a ball cap pulled down over his forehead, who would recognize him with no hat, sunglasses and clothes that looked like what every other man in town wore?

Females generally notice these things better than males.

A few more points for today.

It takes strength to haul a body through snow on an ice-covered lake. If Kelly's killer drove onto the ice, where was the access point? Did he switch vehicles? Muddy fields in spring are only good for getting stuck.

When they talk about how far from shore Kelly was found, which shore: the high-level shore when the reservoir was full, or the shore in June 1981 when water levels had dropped dramatically from the norm? Details like this are so annoying.

It's kind of like me wondering where the other potential babysitters lived, if they all attended the same church and went to the same school, and if they were all past or present figure skaters. Were they all Danish descendants, except for Kelly? No answers.

I've even wondeted if Kelly trusted this guy when she met him because helooked like someone she'd seen in passing.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 06, 2018, 08:46:14 PM
wellwell
Quote
It takes strength to haul a body through snow on an ice-covered lake. If Kelly's killer drove onto the ice, where was the access point?

That's kindof the point.. we may assume that the lake conditions were as described above, but were they really like that on the day Kelly was murdered? Water levels are one thing and can be an indicator of the previous winter weather but spring is a funny sort of time. The difference from one day to another can be quite extreme in southern Alta. It is chinook country and a few of those can alter the landscape dramatically. So what I seek, the actual condition of the lake and shoreline on that particular day may not be all that easy to deduce. Arnold claimed it was no problem to just wade in off the shore. No fishing hut drop hole, no nothing. Just open water. As we can see, that would not be the usual sort of conditions one would come up with from a guess. Perhaps the only one who knew and would recall the actual lakeshore condition on that day was the killer? If one is to call it b.s. it would be nice to have the proof. Not sure we have that yet..

thanks to all who looked and sent me info..

ps.. SAP thank you, I haven't been able to view the info in your link due the png format. Won't convert easily. 
 http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.150 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7227.150)


Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 07, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
it is only the truth we seek..
Best of luck…

I wasn’t going to post on this topic anymore, it seemed pretty futile. But as time passes I still think of it all and realize some other implications. It is still unsolved and it seems the Police have ended any investigation no matter what other info or suspects are brought forward. In some ways it almost sounds like they know and that’s the end of it for them. The family and public be damned. 

So if I may be permitted to get some of my final thoughts off my chest, I really will be done. If you are familiar with this case, you will recognize how strange it was for me to have met Barb Stoppel and Terry Arnold way back in 1980. I also met (Victoria Spakowski) at the time of the first incident I described in the thread about Arnold and Barb S.

Then to have met people who had just moved from Strathmore in 1981 who seemed to know things about Kelly’s murderer. Following that I again run into a man named Terry Arnold who spills out a confession while drinking one night.

Barb Stoppel told me a lot in the short time we spent together. It was strange thinking back on it now. I was a stranger to her but she singled me out to tell me everything she could about T. Arnold. Its as if she knew she needed to tell someone. The same night that she told me all of that at a carnival in Armstrong B.C., a place she wasn’t supposed to be at, we had gone down to the booth where T. Arnold was working and confronted him about spying on Barb. He was totally quiet but seemed to be seething inside. That night a car was reported driving around the area having rammed a dozen or so other cars. A young woman was also raped while walking home from the carnival that night. Nothing remotely like that had ever happened in that town previous.

Years later when I again met T.Arnold in a bar and we got on him about what an idiot he was trying to act like a big tough guy while bragging about killing little girls, he again left in a huff, giving me the killer eye look and saying he’ll get me. Well at that time he had been working at a small local newspaper writing crime stories. He had been there for some time and had befriended a group of locals, even the church going ones. Shortly after that confession/conversation one of his church going lady friends was raped and terrorized by T. Arnold.
I started to see a bit of a pattern. When you set this guy off, he takes it out on someone else. How he picks the someone else? Hmm

So back to Kelly.. What Arnold said obviously has to be taken with a grain of sand. He spoke a lot of her, more than the others. It began with Arnold saying a friend of his was interested in the figure skater and that Arnold said why not just go get her and took it upon himself to do so. Interpreting in view of the other examples, Arnold seems to have just been dumped by his wife Victoria S and was supposed to be going to jail over some altercation. This other person Arnold referred to, I believe is almost like an alternate personality of Arnold himself. Remember we are speaking of a psychopath and you have to interpret the ensuing actions with that in mind. Victoria S. said that she and Arnold met at a skating rink and all of their socializing was through that arena. I believe that was the Strathmore arena. The targeted figure skater from Standard looked very similar to Barb Stoppel. Barb had said that Arnold was infatuated with the photo of her in her skater outfit. So Arnold chases the Standard skater down but makes himself noticed in doing so. Then he gets shut down by her on the phone and again, probably leaves seething. He hatches the plan to follow through with the baby sitters name given him by the standard skater to get back at her and scare the hell out of her so she’d never forget him. Arnold’s favourite saying, fuck with the best, die like the rest. It was like his mantra..

It took him a couple of days for him to get it together to pull it off. Says he spent some of that time camped out behind an abandoned farm house outside Hussar area drinking beer. He gets Kelly, he doesn’t talk much at first so she can’t detect how young he was. He must of felt confident that he looked older. When I first saw him in 1980, I would have guessed him to be nearer thirty not a teenager and I was rarely that far off with anyone. Arnold claims he took her out near Hussar and pulled off in some field some place he had scouted out earlier. I’ll skip details but Arnold also said Kelly left a virgin as said in the autopsy report. He says he had made Kelly scream by pulling a knife on her as she held the phone in Hussar. She had not escaped nor was out of his control according him. His mission was still to leave things that would terrify the skater who had dissed him, and kill a substitute for his wife who had dumped him. Kelly was a pawn to him. Arnold claimed to have kept her alive till the end making her duck down on the floor boards as he drove. That so if he was stopped by Police for any reason, its not a murder charge. He claimed he had just followed back roads and accidentally ended up at Chin lake by following main road signs. But.. I recall Barb Stoppel describing that beautiful spot in the middle of nowhere southern Alberta with the beautiful long bridge. Arnold was there with her. Was that spot picked with Barb in mind also? Barb had also dissed him and spoke down to him. I believe Arnold was extremely infatuated with Barb. He had moved in right across the street from where she worked so he could watch her. All that at the time Kelly was killed. There aren’t any other places like Chin Lake in Southern Alta that match Barb’s description as far as I know.

Then when Kelly’s body was discovered Arnold denied that it was him making a scene at the funeral home. Interesting that the original description of that person was from a young employee at the funeral home saying the intruder was young, even in his teens. That person wore a white tshirt and blue jean jacket and had the big sunglasses. Exactly as he had looked when Barb Stoppel took me to confront him at the Armstrong B.C. carnival a year earlier.. It was the only public disclosure that the suspect was much younger than the previous reporting had led. Arnold may have wanted to distance himself from that.

In the end Arnold has a list of victims he was implicated in murdering yet he spent very little to no time for almost everything. Too the point of being extreme to bizarre..

The final piece that I wish to leave is what convinced me that Kelly will never officially be solved. I have a past too. Not in the bad way as Arnold but I have been around and I have seen things. In regard another killer Shannon Murrin, I was very surprised to find out how protected he was from prosecution. I saw, I knew he had murdered a young woman, I took pictures, addresses, licence plate numbers witnesses names, etc.. I got caught by the Police in the act of doing so. Shannon Murrin himself told me with a knife held to my ribs that there was nothing I could do about it so If I knew what was good for me, I should just forget about it.
Then to back that up, I was approached by two men who said they were Police and wanted to talk. I agreed and met with one of them the next day in a public place. The short story is, sometimes members of the public see things that is protected government business and they have to stay silent. I was given two options; one to sign a form that the Police officer produced titled Canada Secrets Act, or to be taken in for rehabilitation like the critical incident stress debriefing some police and military have to go through. I opted for the former. There is a record of me and this somewhere in officialdom. The Police officer produced ID saying he wasn’t normal police but a member of the national rcmp with special powers. His picture and name can be found with simple searches. He eventually became the top profiler and chief communicator with the Canadian government reporting regularly to parliament on new laws and regulations. His name is Glenn Woods. The reason I bring this up is because of where this fellow shows up. When T. Arnold moved to Chilliwack, a dinky little town on the Trans Canada highway heading for nowhere, he had a slew of perverted sex crimes and a murder charge pending against him. Strangely almost all the charges were dropped or bungled somehow.  Given this cops position and given what and who he had been involved in before, It is totally out of place to find him here. I suspect this cop was there in Chilliwack because of T. Arnold, no other reason. It is also obvious that it was not for the purpose of apprehending him either.
http://transfixed.net/trans/docs/images/Woods_files/doc028woodsbio.htm (http://transfixed.net/trans/docs/images/Woods_files/doc028woodsbio.htm)

Terry Arnold in Chilliwack-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.0)

So wtf is up with all of this? If you continue to follow along in time you will next see this same cop pop up later in the pig farm case, this time as the partner to Kim Rossmo as he developed his geographic profiling software.
These are facts, I would have to speculate as to the purpose behind all this but I have to say that the government of Canada should be sued by all of the victims families for what they have done here. Arnold is virtually treated as a protected perverted guinea pig test study for a profiler learning how they work and eventually reducing it to a software program to catch the ones coming along afterwards. The murdered little girls are justifiable consequences to them. The law is with them.. (witness protection laws of all things)
Class action is needed..
Excuse me while I go throw up!

Quote
Information on Glen Woods:
Mr. Glenn Woods, Owner: Behavioural Analysis Investigation & Training (BAIT) Group
A former member of the RCMP for 35 yrs he was originally posted in the Lower Mainland of B.C. spending 10 years in
Surrey Detachment on General Duties, Drug Enforcement, Fraud and Serious Crime Units. Other postings in BC included
the Co-ordinated Law Enforcement Unit, Chilliwack Drug Section and Drug Intelligence and Field Operations as the
witness protection coordinator for the province.
In 1989 he was transferred to Ottawa as the National Source/Witness
protection coordinator and then in 1990 to Staffing and Personnel Branch.
In January 1995 he began a 2 year Criminal Investigative Analysis (profiling) Understudy Training Program administered
by the International Criminal Investigative Analysis Fellowship (ICIAF) in cooperation with the FBI, and became a
certified Criminal Profiler in 1997.
Over the course of his career he has been involved in the investigation of numerous homicides, sexual assaults, arson, fraud
and drug cases. He retired from the RCMP in May, 2007 as the Director, Behavioural Sciences responsible for several
operational support programs including, ViCLAS, the National Sex Offender Registry, Polygraph, Statement Analysis,
Criminal Investigative Analysis (Criminal Profiling), Geographic Profiling and Threat Assessment.
Since 1996 he has been a regular speaker at the Canadian Police College, the Atlantic Police College, Toronto Police
Service and the Ontario Police College where he has lectured on a number of investigative courses including: Major Crime
Investigators, Major Case Management, Forensic Interviewers, Advanced Identification and Post Blast. He has been a
guest lecturer at Carleton University & Algonquin College and has also presented at numerous conferences in Canada, the
United States and Europe.
Mr. Woods is currently the owner of BAIT Group, a company that provides analytical, investigative & training services to
public agencies and private sector firms.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on June 08, 2018, 02:02:55 PM
D1, I can't believe you were exposed to all that. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. 

You new BS, she wanted help confronting TA. When she did he ran raucous and a person was raped that night. Did BS break up with him that night?
What do you think kept him from going after you. After all you came with her when she confronted him. Odd when he gets disgruntled he takes it out on innocent others and not BS the person who confronted him.

Then if I read correct when you met up with him years later he was bragging about all those details and on that night at that night at the bar you gave him a hassle about bragging about harming little girls. and more happens... thus your theory on the pattern and way he picks. Why do you think he may have picked the church lady.

So how did he say he got on the lake.. walked on ice? boat on water?  i just can't see someone tie someone up and put on blocks in the hole others may use.

How did Barb rid of him without getting hurt?

Regarding your experience with GW, again i'm sorry you went through that. The knowing, the witnessing, the not being able to do anything about it. I bet that made you feel helpless to believe there would be any reprieve or justice.

Did TA know he was being followed, studied, protected to some extent I wonder?
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 09, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
way back when we all debated a lot of this that D1 was exposed to , I always had a gut feeling that Terry Arnold escalated at a point that he became "friendly with" or in some kind of "kahoots with" one of these double dealing, controlling police officers (or crooked RCMP operatives)  ... and at that time, I felt it highly possible that Terry Arnold, while skulking around and enjoying some "carte blanch" afforded to him by rogue authority little clique, prevalent at the time (and no doubt still in practice by crooked police) was quite possible the "sudden striking, in the heat of the moment" perpetrator who grabbed little Jo-anne Peterson while she was confused (by being locked out of her house and out after dark in pouring rain trying to reach parents, who were out partying at a legion or bar at the time.... and who didn't respond or react properly to her call - made from the candy store at the time.)  Grant it, the child would have been in a seriously precarious situation given the facts that there were various people and vehicles speeding in and fleeing the same store .... and many unknown and/or unidentified people all involved all within minutes of her being snatched. ... but it has always bothered me that it just so happened that Arnold may have been staying at a trailer not far down the road.  And he is one to stay with vulnerable women, get disturbed or bored easily, and go out and in minutes find a young victim to take it out on.  .... And the area did have an active bar and military facilities and housing along the same street.  So it all kinda got left up in the air.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2018, 03:14:41 AM
Concerned, glad you posted those questions.. I have left some wrong impressions.

Quote
You new BS, she wanted help confronting TA. When she did he ran raucous and a person was raped that night. Did BS break up with him that night?
What do you think kept him from going after you. After all you came with her when she confronted him. Odd when he gets disgruntled he takes it out on innocent others and not BS the person who confronted him.

T.A. and Barb S. were never a couple. They were only forced to interact due they both got jobs with the same carnival company. I was not alone when we went with Barb and confronted Arnold. There were 6 of us. Barb pretty well did all the talking and did it very well. She picked out the points by which he could be identified as the peeper and drilled in on him, cornering him and pointing it out to everyone what he was all about. Barb had distain for him. Barb may have been young but she was tough minded and spoke straight to the point. Arnold I believe was in some ways impressed and intimidated by her. That may have held him off for the time being, that and the 5 witnesses standing there watching as Arnold cringes, his eyes darting from one face to the other as Barb spoke. In the end he had no defense and just closed his booth for the night but you got the sense he was seathing inside.

Quote
Then if I read correct when you met up with him years later he was bragging about all those details and on that night at that night at the bar you gave him a hassle about bragging about harming little girls. and more happens... thus your theory on the pattern and way he picks. Why do you think he may have picked the church lady.

I hadn’t given much thought to exactly how he picked a victim or a substitute victim till you mention this. Note the church lady lived. If that conversation of ours was a trigger, then the nature of the conversation, me espousing some moral ground was likely akin to pushing biblical correctness in his mind. Prior this he was almost revelling and gleeful like some satanic imp as he recounted the sordid details. This seemed his natural condition and he was unaware or unbelieving how perverted and demented this was.
 
Quote
So how did he say he got on the lake.. walked on ice? boat on water?  i just can't see someone tie someone up and put on blocks in the hole others may use.

Arnold claimed that it was open water where he placed Kelly’s body, minor ice patches on shoreline but no real ice. Arnold claimed to have waded in floating Kelly’s body out on a Styrofoam block he found by the bridge. Then just swung her off and dropped her. Said he had tied two concrete blocks to the ends of a rope and had pre wrapped Kelly, crisscrossing the ropes over and around her. He adamantly refuted the official Police report saying Kelly was tied to the blocks. That would be a very strange thing to just make up and make a point of in my mind.

Was Arnold aware that he was a guinea pig? Interesting question.. The big man G.W. was FBI trained. Arnold himself spent a few years down in the U.S. where this same pattern of murder or worse seems to have followed him, yet there is even less info about any of that time..
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2018, 03:35:36 AM
re - lostlinganer
Quote
but it has always bothered me that it just so happened that Arnold may have been staying at a trailer not far down the road.  And he is one to stay with vulnerable women, get disturbed or bored easily, and go out and in minutes find a young victim to take it out on

For me the final straw in regard Joanne Pedersen came when a Police officer informed me that the place Arnold stayed while in Chilliwack was next door to the where the car suspected in the abduction resided. Arnold claimed to have stolen a neighbors car that night and then returned it to its parking spot after the murder. There was only one car of that make model and color in the entire town of Chilliwack. A dozen or so young men saw it that night and all identified it.

So there you have Arnold living across the street from Where Barb S. worked when she was murdered, and living next door to the suspect vehicle when Joanne P. was murdered. You can't just look away from this sort of thing and believe that some of our highly trained investigators and profilers didn't know.. We have been played, the victims families even worse. You can still hear how much faith they all have in the RCMP to this day..
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on June 10, 2018, 06:10:47 AM
Thank you for the further clarification. I'm still wading through the threads and it may take a while. I didn't realize that BS was also murdered. How long after the confrontation do you think? That would insinuate he kept grudges. And, didn't always take it out on others but may have gone back when focus was off the heat of the moment.

It makes me curious of TA's life story. What happened in early life that he felt the need to do these things. Or, was it just a condition. I'm curious but hate to read up on these perps and their demons.

Again, thanks. I'll probably have more questions when I get up to the point I'm not asking silly questions.

I hope your life kept you away from these monsters and demons. It doesn't sound like fun. But, then again, it doesn't sound like you back off from it either.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 10, 2018, 10:22:24 AM
Since we're back to TA again, I have a question for you, D1. Do you know how long TA lived at the house in Calgary down the street from Denise Lapierre's house? I'm asking because there is a funeral home about 1.7 km away from that location (only a few minutes by car). In 1981, there was a small funeral home even closer, on 16 Ave. NW near 4 St. It became a pub in the intervening years. He sermed to know this part of the city.

I started thinking about who could have tipped the man off, the one who went to the funeral home when no one knew Kelly was there. The police likely knew, yes, as this was a high-profile case and surely they should have had someone posted in or outside at the funeral home. They were looking for the killer. But the funeral home handling Kelly's service closer to home also would have known. So I looked to see if funeral homes east of Calgary ever hire retired RCMP. Yes, they do. So there you go.  I just wanted to put this out there. I don't know if this was the case in 1981.

Back to Standard, the local arena/Legion is very close to Standard School. And the Lutheran church is a block away from the arena. A new community hall is across the street from the church, maybe on the site of the old community hall? The Standard Hotel is still standing with a phone booth outside. The RCMP detachment is gone, and I have no idea where it was.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on June 10, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
wellwell... just a clarification on a few things:

Jo-anne Peterson was abducted in Chilliwack, BC .. not anywhere near Standard, Alberta;  but we always wondered if Arnold could have been the one.... and Jo-Anne Peterson's body was never found .. so nobody knows for sure she was murdered... if memory serves me.

So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
wellwell
Quote
Since we're back to TA again, I have a question for you, D1. Do you know how long TA lived at the house in Calgary down the street from Denise Lapierre's house?

Not long and nowhere near the time of Kelly's murder as far as I know. This was the home of Arnold's then girlfriend and her 16 yr. old daughter in and around the time of Denise's murder. (1987) Note Denise was another murder victim found very close by Arnold, in fact right outside his back door. 

So by the time that Roberta Ferguson disappeared from Chilliwack in 1988, after last being seen hitch hiking right outside Arnold's door, there was no excuse for Police to have been looking elsewhere at anyone else other than Arnold. From there they can just keep backing up in time to bring him right back here to Kelly who may well have been Arnold's first victim. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 10, 2018, 01:48:36 PM
wellwell... just a clarification on a few things:

Jo-anne Peterson was abducted in Chilliwack, BC .. not anywhere near Standard, Alberta;  but we always wondered if Arnold could have been the one.... and Jo-Anne Peterson's body was never found .. so nobody knows for sure she was murdered... if memory serves me.

So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.

I am not straying into Chilliwack at all. I am referring only to Kelly Cook and the area in which she lived and died.

Concerned, this page may be of interest to you. Notice how the suspect was once considered to be 40 to 45 years of age. Chin Lake or one of the adjacent irrigation canals? Big difference! Canals are drained in the fall.

The story kept on changing. The police hinted that they had something from the autopsy report to identify Kelly. Was she bound with ropes, or tied to two concrete blocks?

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.705
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on June 10, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Quote
So best not to stray into "Legions" because they have no bearing, as far as we know ... other than Jo-annes parents were at the Legion in Chilliwack when Jo-annes sibling/s and babysitter (not sure without checking back if they had a sitter) locked the door on Jo-anne when she left for the store.   so nobody knows exactly where between the store and home, she was taken.  :(  .... however, back in Jo-anne's thread, you will read somewhere in it, that we considered that someone over-hearing the Petersons on the phone with Jo-Anne looking for help to get home and in the house, may have seized the opportunity to scat on ahead and grab the child.  If memory serves me (again) it was pouring rain that night, and folks would probably have been paying more attention to trying to get out of the rain than noticing a car pulling up and grapping a child at some point.

I agree.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2018, 02:37:03 PM
Concerned:
Quote
Thank you for the further clarification. I'm still wading through the threads and it may take a while. I didn't realize that BS was also murdered. How long after the confrontation do you think? That would insinuate he kept grudges. And, didn't always take it out on others but may have gone back when focus was off the heat of the moment

Barb was murdered Dec 1981, that conversation at the carnival took place Aug/1980. I think Arnold was infatuated with Barb and thought he could get together with her.. He moved in right across the street from her work place and frequented the business. She likely had to be a bit polite to him at work but obviously at some point reality prevailed and Arnold may have been put down again in the process. He was virtually stalking her ..
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on June 10, 2018, 03:16:30 PM
There were two places to drink in Standard. The hotel was one.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2018, 04:09:19 PM
I don't intend to drag on about T. Arnold, just wanted to post the final piece about that high profile cop/profiler in regard all this. Everyone of Arnold's victims cases have something that kept Arnold from being identified or prosecuted as the prime suspect. Kelly was no different and it would have been hard to see or detect at the time. However once the pattern begins to show, you do have to backup and take a second look.

Even the prosecutor in Barb Stoppel's murder case has come under fire for his part in keeping the heat off T. Arnold by prosecuting the wrong man.

Quote
Dangerfield also prosecuted Sophonow in the early 1980s. It was later found Sophonow had been wrongly convicted and was acquitted. Sophonow has been sitting through the last few weeks of Driskell's wrongful conviction inquiry, in support of James Driskell.

In responding to the objection, Lockyer told the inquiry that at the end of the proceedings, he intends to ask the commission to recommend a full examination of Dangerfield's past cases "insofar as there may be concerns in the manner he prosecuted them."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/driskell-lawyer-calls-for-review-of-crown-prosecutor-s-cases-1.611101 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/driskell-lawyer-calls-for-review-of-crown-prosecutor-s-cases-1.611101)

It never happened, no inquiry... This is all part of the system and how it works now in Canada. What happened here with Kelly and the others was authorized at a much higher level than anyone knew imo. Much like the then illegal, secret, lsd experiments conducted on Canadian citizens with the knowledge and consent of the Canadian government under CIA direction. That took forever to uncover and court cases are still underway to decide who gets paid off to this day. They damaged many lives with little to no regard.

That is where this should go too, (once you know) inquiries and class action law suits; but I suspect the damages caused and the resultant implications would be too deep and widespread for it to ever happen.  Meantime, do remember Kelly and keep talking. Mention her name as many times and for as long as possible.. Maybe someone will guilt up on their death bed or something and spill the last few beans..
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on July 18, 2018, 03:55:11 PM
Anyone reading through this far may notice that the last several pages here don't make much sense. There was a site shutdown for a week or so back around the 20th/ June. Several posts are now missing entirely or partially. So be it, Kelly never caught any breaks during her brief life and I guess nothing has changed.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on July 23, 2018, 03:00:41 PM
Anyone reading through this far may notice that the last several pages here don't make much sense. There was a site shutdown for a week or so back around the 20th/ June. Several posts are now missing entirely or partially. So be it, Kelly never caught any breaks during her brief life and I guess nothing has changed.

Egads. Never getting a break.

I keep watching obituaries in the Standard-Hussar area, and keep hoping that as people get together from far and wide, Kelly might be remembered, or something new might come up in passing. You know, a flashback while passing the site of the old gas station or something.So far, nothing has happened, except that more and more people from the area are getting old and passing away. The chance of getting key information that might solve this case is looking pretty slim.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on July 23, 2018, 04:11:41 PM
Anyone reading through this far may notice that the last several pages here don't make much sense. There was a site shutdown for a week or so back around the 20th/ June. Several posts are now missing entirely or partially. So be it, Kelly never caught any breaks during her brief life and I guess nothing has changed.

I did not remove any posts D1. Can't speak for anyone else.

Do you know who's posts were removed? Just glancing through I see posts that I would think some people may have seen as controversial, but they remain.

Just so you are aware: I read all posts. I do that on a daily basis. If I saw any (valid) reason not to leave them up they would be removed within that time frame. Even if someone complains because they do not like the content, they are not removed unless I feel there is a legitimate reason.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on July 23, 2018, 07:12:34 PM
Not thinking it was anything due to you Deb, sorry for the inference, wasn't thinking. But.. whatever occurred during the shut down took out some info, nothing too earth shattering just saying. Post 225, the blank quote... post 245 two unanswered quotes.. I always post the quote then the answer in sequence. My answers are not there. There is more but what do you do? Prior the shutdown viewing on Kelly was increasing like it hadn't in a fair bit of time. 50,300 on 18/06/04  ... 51,936 a few days later.. Now back to the usual dribble of visitors. Remember the first unsolved site way back when unsolved came up first when you did a GOOGLE SEARCH of the murder victims names? Not always so anymore.. Maybe it was just an illusion that something could be accomplished by posting on an unsolved website.. Don't like us looking like we are part of the problem and shooting ourselves in the foot on a regular basis. However it is occurring...
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: AaronP on August 04, 2018, 08:06:41 PM
I did notice two themes re: how some postings were... modified. Several posts have been deleted entirely (although you can still tell that someone did post, but there's no message anymore). More common is bits and pieces of text have been removed from a number of postings, making it difficult to figure what they were about. For example, the second last post on Part 1 was made by me - I commented how some apparent first-hand knowledge was incorrect when compared against bona-fide news reporting. However, all my commentary was deleted, and all that's left is a couple of copied postings other persons made, along with a copy of a posting I made that contains an actual news article. So a person reading that posting may have no idea what it's about or why it was posted in the first place.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on August 05, 2018, 12:04:50 AM
I really never noticed it on other threads but I was also not paying that much attention. Now after checking threads 1 and 2, I do see what you all are talking about. There are a lot of quotes and nothing else written by the poster who is quoting. Links to newspapers and pictures are missing, however some of those links went missing already before this last server change. Some Ontario cases were missing many vital links from newspaper archives a couple years back. I think it's just a glitch from server changes. Similar things happened when I had a forum with Americans and we used "free" Web servers, especially for picture links.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Concerned on August 05, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
It is not just this thread. RW's thread was hit too.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: debbiec on August 08, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
I really never noticed it on other threads but I was also not paying that much attention. Now after checking threads 1 and 2, I do see what you all are talking about. There are a lot of quotes and nothing else written by the poster who is quoting. Links to newspapers and pictures are missing, however some of those links went missing already before this last server change. Some Ontario cases were missing many vital links from newspaper archives a couple years back. I think it's just a glitch from server changes. Similar things happened when I had a forum with Americans and we used "free" Web servers, especially for picture links.

Unfortunately this is likely correct.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: Sap1 on August 09, 2018, 12:42:56 AM
Here are some very plausible answers as to why this is happening. I think D1 already mentioned or made reference to something similar. The following is a help forum.

https://acrobatusers.com/forum/general-acrobat-topics/problem-hyperlinks-when-pdf-doc-goes-web-server/

Oooops, perhaps we should have had this conversation on a site thread. Sorry Debbie.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on October 12, 2018, 06:28:10 PM
I continue to wonder if the man who killed Kelly Cook also killed Victoria Crow Shoe. RCMP revealed today that she was bound with rope snd dumped naked into the Oldman Reservoir in Southern Alberta on or about August 31, 2015, the last day she was seen. Links posted in her thread. If this reservoir killer is the same man, he was free on August 31, 2015. They have now released photos of the rope used to bind Victoria Crow Shoe. It is kernmantle rope with black tracers in the interior sheath. Do we know what kind of rope was used by Kelly's killer? FYI, some kernmantle rope has equestrian uses.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on October 21, 2018, 04:06:16 PM
This unsolved murder case from Colorado bothers me. Her name was Vicki Carpenter. She was 24 years old. She was found two months after she disappeared. The victim was found at the spillway of a reservoir by young boys who had gone fishing. She had been tied up in (swing set) chains and weighed down with cinderblocks. Before her death, she had  taken part in a modellng contest, where she won the swimsuit competition. She had also worked as a babysitter.

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/crime/unsolved-young-moms-body-dumped-in-reservoir/73-550375896

http://blogs.denverpost.com/coldcases/tag/vicki-carpenter/

What if Kelly's killer headed south down the Rocky Mountains? He could have been American.

Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 21, 2018, 08:37:09 PM
I hate to go there wellwell, but gotta say:  that girl has "the look" that Terry Arnold was attracted to.  Although binding with just about anything and disposing in water (weighted down) is a typical practice for that kind of killer who has access to water and doesn't want the body found.   :-\  .... and it seems that her killer could have picked her out through the news articles about her.   :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on October 22, 2018, 08:12:15 AM
Did T. Arnold slash the car tires of any of his victims? That's what happened to Vicki Carpenter, before her killer followed her as she drove a short distance from the swimsuit competition.

The killer(s) of both Kelly and Vicki sought out females in skimpy costumes. If this was the same person, he used rope and one cinderblock for Kelly, but multiple cinderblocks and swing set chain for Vicki.

I did a quick check. A carnival company is based in Colorado.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on October 26, 2018, 08:32:14 AM
Were cinder blocks used in Victoria Crow Shoe's case, too? Any other commonalities, aside from the reservoirs and rope? It would be an awful coincidence if so, and might lead a person to think that the same peraon could still be alive to strike again.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on October 26, 2018, 12:07:02 PM
Thinking back to my growing up in a fishing community and being among avid boaters most of my adult life, I have to say that cinder blocks (concrete building blocks) are one of the most common items for anchoring a boat, that I've seen along lakes and waterways.  You could drive to water sources almost anywhere back in those days, and find cinder blocks left behind by people who were fishing previously ... poor man's anchor sort of thing ... convenient for the holes in them to tie rope to. 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: wellwell on November 03, 2018, 03:22:08 PM
Someone local to the area of the reservoir would have known this.
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: D1 on November 14, 2018, 06:11:02 PM
New photo from the book written about the Barb Stoppel murder. Terry Arnold from back in the day... Photo comparison Kelly Cook killer composite..
barbstoppel.com (http://barbstoppel.com)
 
Title: Re: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 14, 2018, 08:17:36 PM
good one D ..... great find... did you get the year it was taken?   guess I'll try the link  :-\