Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => British Columbia Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Abbotsford, Mission, Chilliwack => Topic started by: Chris on April 04, 2007, 12:55:48 AM

Title: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on April 04, 2007, 12:55:48 AM
(http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cold_case/images/pederson_2.jpg)

Name: Joanne Marie PEDERSON

Age enhancement 
10 yrs - 1983  32 yrs - 2004 
 
cliquez pour l'agrandir
Location: Chilliwack, British Columbia (BC)

Details: On the 19th of February, 1983, at approximately 8:15 pm, Joanne Marie PEDERSON (Date of Birth: May 17th, 1972) went missing from the Penny Pincher Store near the corner of Vedder Road and Watson Road in the Vedder Crossing area of Chilliwack, British Columbia, Canada.

At the time of her disappearance Joanne Marie PEDERSON was ten (10) years old, 4' 6" tall, and weighed eighty five (85) pounds. She had shoulder-length light brown hair and brown eyes.

She was last seen using the pay phone outside the Penny Pincher store, on the south east corner of the building, facing Vedder Road.

An unidentified male was seen with her in the phone booth. He was described as being a caucasian male, approximately twenty ( 20 ) to thirty ( 30 ) years old, 5'6" to 5'7" in height, slim to medium build, light to dark hair ( that was below the ears ), clean shaven and wearing a dark jacket.

To this date all attempts to locate Joanne Marie PEDERSON and the male last seen in the phone booth with her have been unsuccessful.

If you have any information regarding this case please contact Cst P. Neetz of the Chilliwack R.C.M.P. Community Policing Office, Serious Crime Unit, at 1-604-792-4611.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kimmeh on February 19, 2008, 04:31:33 PM
Jo-Anne has been missing for 25 years today.

Crime Stoppers video released

[youtube=425,350]http://youtube.com/watch?v=0gIJaTLQgB0[/youtube]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0gIJaTLQgB0

Most recent article in local paper

http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/news/15771017.html

The mother of a little girl missing for 25 years is pleading for the man last seen with her 10-year-old daughter to come forward and end her suffering.

"As a mother, I have suffered so much through the years," Angela Reilly, the mother of Jo-Anne Pedersen, says in a video released today by RCMP investigators.

"To the person that was at the telephone booth, if you would please come forward, it would relieve me of so much grief," the tearful mother says in the video. "As a mother, I'm pleading with you to come forward. Please do that for me."

Police believe the man seen in the telephone booth with Pedersen outside a Penny Pincher store in Vedder crossing on Feb. 19, 1983 can help solve the 25-year-old mystery. Police now believe the man was trying to help Pedersen, but may have been scared off talking to police at the time because he was portrayed in a negative light.

RCMP investigators have re-opened the cold case after getting new information.

A composite picture of the man released by police shows a Caucasian male, 20-23 years old at the time, just over six feet tall. He had an average build with hair that came over his ears in a messy or wavy style. He had a moustache and was wearing a 1980s-style waist-length black leather jacket at the time.

Witnesses also describe a vehicle associated with the man, a two-door white- or cream-coloured domestic car from the early- to mid-70s with a dark Landau roof.

Anyone who believes they have information about the case is asked to call the Chilliwack RCMP detachment at 604-792-4611. Anonymous calls can be made to Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 or online at www.chilliwackcrimestoppers.ca

rfreeman@theprogress.com

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on February 19, 2008, 08:42:07 PM
Thanks for posting that kimmeh,

I hope this crime gets solved, whoever that is in the phone booth I hope decides to come forward, that would be terrific, I am sure the whole thing is still fresh in his mind if he was spooked by the response.

It would seem logical that someone out there knows something, I hope that person decides to contact crime stoppers.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on February 20, 2008, 01:35:17 AM
Quote
Police are not talking about the new information, but Manj says an individual came forward with information investigators hadn't considered in the beginning

Wow, i bet they have someone in mind now. THey just need to meet the high burden of evidence to satisfy the judges. I sure hope that this gets solved, nothing is more rewarding then solving a cold case involving a child.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kimmeh on February 20, 2008, 01:38:09 PM
A small sketch can be found here: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/377dfbc.html
I'll keep looking and see if I can find anything bigger.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Adrian on June 11, 2008, 08:51:14 PM

********************************************************
They're hoping the man in the phone booth will come forward now, or others who may have held back information during the first interviews 25 years ago, will talk more freely now.

"We believe there are a number of people out there who know something," Dunlop says. "There may be people who for whatever reason were not willing to talk to police in the past that will now."

"Somebody's got to know what happened to Joanne," Manj agrees.
*************************************************************

Seems to me like something has changed, in the last while.The police got new information. I also noticed it said that people who wouldn't talk then, may now.

Their were interviews 25 years ago. Maybe they now have a prime suspect who is already in jail for something else, or has passed away.Let's hope that who ever may know something, come forward.

The years must of been hell on the family of Jo-anne Pederson. I hope, and pray there is an ending to this tragedy.((((((((Hugs))))))))) to all the family and friends, and of course for Jo-anne.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on June 12, 2008, 04:38:06 AM
Quote
Seems to me like something has changed, in the last while.The police got new information

I hpoe so. It does sound like they are looking into this again with new eyes and technology. I hope it works out.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kaw29 on August 11, 2008, 12:21:10 AM
I was just wondering if the police ever considered Keith Jesperson, the Happy face Killer in there investigation. I was just reading a book about him and he was originally from Chilliwack and come back to visit often. From what I can figure he was probably in the area about that time. He was arrested in 1995 for multiple murders. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2008, 12:23:56 AM
I was just wondering if the police ever considered Keith Jesperson, the Happy face Killer in there investigation. I was just reading a book about him and he was originally from Chilliwack and come back to visit often. From what I can figure he was probably in the area about that time. He was arrested in 1995 for multiple murders. Just a thought.

I am sure they would have checked out any killer who was known to be in that area. I don't thik I have ever heard of this person Keith you are talking about. I once knew a girl with that last name though so it is interesting. Can you tell me more about him and what he did?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kaw29 on August 13, 2008, 12:19:23 AM
Yes, his family was from Chilliwack, he moved to washington when he was about 12 I think, but they kept close ties here and basically came to chilliwack every chance they got. I am right in the middle of his auto biography, so far as I can tell he murdered eight women while driving tractor trailers across the states. He tells of stories of coming to Chilliwack about the same time as Joanne went missing.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2008, 02:08:08 AM
Yes, his family was from Chilliwack, he moved to washington when he was about 12 I think, but they kept close ties here and basically came to chilliwack every chance they got. I am right in the middle of his auto biography, so far as I can tell he murdered eight women while driving tractor trailers across the states. He tells of stories of coming to Chilliwack about the same time as Joanne went missing.

Is this guy dead or is he still in prison? Maybe you should send a message to the police there. That is a very interesting coincidence. Did he ever kill a child?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kaw29 on August 13, 2008, 11:20:30 PM
not that I know of, none of the crimes he was charged with involved children.
I am thinking about contacting someone, dont quite know who but I will check into it, maybe crimestoppers?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kaw29 on August 13, 2008, 11:21:19 PM
O and no he isnt dead, he is still in prison.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2008, 11:23:02 PM
Or even just send a message to Chilliwack RCMP. They probably won't ever reply, but at least you will feel better.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: kaw29 on August 14, 2008, 10:40:30 PM
True, good idea. I was with the cops for most of the afternoon today too, dealing with a shoplifter in my store and I didnt even think about it...LOL
I was reading the rest of Keith Jespersons auto biography tonight and he was 6 ft 4, so I dont think its him as the description didnt mention he was that tall.
But I guess you never know. But he was a sick mother, I will tell you that. He is the type that could have taken that young girl.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Chris on August 16, 2008, 03:22:24 PM
True, good idea. I was with the cops for most of the afternoon today too, dealing with a shoplifter in my store and I didnt even think about it...LOL
I was reading the rest of Keith Jespersons auto biography tonight and he was 6 ft 4, so I dont think its him as the description didnt mention he was that tall.
But I guess you never know. But he was a sick mother, I will tell you that. He is the type that could have taken that young girl.

Sounds like it. I will read up on him myself
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: L1011 on October 06, 2008, 09:53:15 PM
Did her mother work at the Legion by the base or the one downtown?  I'm just thinking that the Legion is easily within walking distance from the corner of Watson and Vedder.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Nikky1976 on January 17, 2009, 03:48:49 PM
Yes, his family was from Chilliwack, he moved to washington when he was about 12 I think, but they kept close ties here and basically came to chilliwack every chance they got. I am right in the middle of his auto biography, so far as I can tell he murdered eight women while driving tractor trailers across the states. He tells of stories of coming to Chilliwack about the same time as Joanne went missing.

Is this guy dead or is he still in prison? Maybe you should send a message to the police there. That is a very interesting coincidence. Did he ever kill a child?
Regarding Keith Jesperson: I seriously doubt it was him. He never attacked children; his victims were prostitutes, a girlfriend and girls asking for/getting favors at the truck stop. He killed his victims after sex or after they pissed him off. Also, Jesperson is 6'6" so he's very hard to miss. He's the one who admitted killing all of his victims, he's the one who told the police officers who the victims were and where they were. He would have told them about a little girl. But like I said, children were far from being his preys (he had 3 of his own and always swore he would never touch a child). They were just not the right subjects for his "motives" (please forgive my poor English).

However, if you would like to write to him, to ask him about this, here is his address:
Keith Hunter Jesperson # 11620304
Oregon State Penitentiary
2605 State Street
Salem, OR  97310-0505
U.S.A.

Most chances are that he will reply to you.

I hope that helps!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: haunted on February 08, 2010, 09:19:38 PM
NC107

In reading what you wrote, and in ASSUMING that the person in the phone booth was not there to help Joanne but rather was directly involved in her disappearance, a couple of things have come to mind. Have you read any details on the thread of Kelly Cook's unsolved abduction and murder case (Alberta)? The link is

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.0.html

It is a long read but what seems similar to Joanne's case, is (again if the man in the phone booth WAS involved in her disappearance) he was very BOLD and not afraid of being seen. His car was seen. He was in public with her. A phone call was made and he spoke.  Not just bold but arrogantly bold. This is eerily similar in both cases and unusual in most other cases where the responsible person tends to avoid this sort of thing. In Kelly's case there is a strong possibility that she made a frantic phone call (from a pay phone) to the operator before it was cut short. This, if it were Kelly, had occured after she was abducted.  There is nothing known that can confirm it was Kelly but given the time frame, the nature of the call and the location of the phone booth it is speculated that it was her. It has been debated, on this board, whether that call was an attempt at an emergency call made by Kelly who had some opportunity or if it was set up by her abductor, like some sort of game or another sign of arrogance.

Just wanted to point this out, in the event it could help.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 08, 2010, 09:35:26 PM
Was a sketch of the suspect ever produced? Seems there should have been.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 08, 2010, 09:57:14 PM
Oh yes, this guy again...He has "apparently" contacted the police recently and anonymously..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: haunted on February 08, 2010, 10:07:27 PM
Yes, I recall the sketch and I also recall making a comment and link to this thread that the sketch is similar to one of the guys on the following thread (Highway of Tears):

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2428.0.html



Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 09, 2010, 05:59:34 PM
Right good stuff, the guy in the phone booth may well have been feeling out the situation to see who was supposed to be picking up the girl and how long he had. He was likely portraying himself a being helpful to the girl and her parents. Pretty bold and ballsy if that is what he was doing while planning to abduct her, vehicle plainly visible, he himself openly seen by witnesses, his voice heard by the girls parents etc..

The police are well aware that this guy is the prime suspect and calling him a helpful innocent person is merely a bluff or a "ruse" for some undisclosed purpose .
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 09, 2010, 07:04:10 PM
Pedophiles perfect their repartee with children, of course they do, to perfect is to get, they are friendly, smile easily, helpful, charming, appear mild mannered, and easy going to gain a child’s trust. They offer, help, ask questions and get answers. Because they are unassuming to a child, and this little one was a child. Some one spotted an opportunity, dark, raining and a child alone. Perfect.
The phone booth man had already had a conversation with this little one and learned from her, that her parents were at Bingo. How did he know to say 30 minutes? If he was a stranger passing through? 30 minutes it took the parents to arrive from Bingo to the Convenience store.

Would a child of ten go with someone they hear threaten their father with the Police? I don’t think so. It is a threat, and no one, especially a child wants to feel threatened by someone calling the Police.

Here is a helpful person. Why would this person not wait with a child until her parents arrived to make certain she was safe if he really cared. Then he could blast the parent for being negligent towards their offspring face to face. Or send the child back into the store where it was dry until her parents arrived. This person did not do that. Why? Did he figure he had done his good deed for the day, yelled at the parent and now feels better? So leaves? Possibly.

So let’s say, for arguments sake, this man was getting gas. He spots the little one and finishes gassing up, or not, ( I suspect not, especially if he saw an opportunity about to be lost through the few minutes of finishing gassing up). Pay’s for the gas and wanders over. Is helpful. Then leaves to get back into his car. She’s still in the phone booth waiting. He stops says hop in and I’ll drop you off. Take you home. Why would he say that if he knew the parents where on the way and so did the little one. So why would she get into his car knowing her parents were on their way? She couldn’t get in at home, the door was locked. Unless, after he hung up the phone he said to her, “Your dad said I could drive you home and he would meet us there. Okay?” “Great! Let’s go.” Or, “ You can wait with me in my car until your parents arrive. Okay?” “Great!”

Or, as I said above the man has done his good deed for the day and leaves. Someone else is gassing up, or passing by, slows down when he sees an opportunity. A man leaving a child in the rain by herself, (it’s all in the timing). This man knows this little girl and pulls alongside her. They converse. “Hop in out of the rain, and we’ll wait here until your parent’s arrive” “Great” She does so. Too late to see her mistake once inside the car when he drives away.

Don’t let this man in the phone booth blow smoke in your eyes. Whomever took this little one lived in the town.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 11, 2010, 11:54:38 AM
That was well thought out. The most infamous Convenience Store missing, for Ontario, is Christine Jessop.

 http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2009/12/christine-jessop.html
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 11, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
Alot has been discussed about Christine Jessop already but this discussion about the "convenience" stores opens up some new thoughts.
christine is on here at- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2085.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2085.0.html)
connections? at -http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3094.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3094.0.html)

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 12, 2010, 03:26:19 AM
This was a very recent attempt to get a child molester to turn himself in. Its a strange tactic in a way but the article above goes on to say that it worked in another case. My "feeling" is maybe for a child molester but I have my doubts remorse and guilt will work on a child killer to get him to confess..

According to the article though, this guy has been operating in and around Vancouver for a very long time. IMO the guy responsible for the Pederson girl may have been responsible for similar crimes but maybe a decade or so before this guy. Then he escalated..maybe just by "convenience"
from the above article:
Quote
Jan 25, 2010 11:49:05 AM
15 Recommendation(s) VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - A serial rapist linked to three attacks against children in Vancouver, Surrey and Delta might be responsible for several other cases.  Police say the suspect has been stalking the Lower Mainland for possibly more than 20 years
.







Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 12, 2010, 06:50:05 PM
Ahh.. another murder so close to a military base. But the suspect description (haircut) pretty well rules out any active members at the time. The car could have come from anywhere with the added complication of so many new recruits coming and going. Careful..Alex may be watching!!!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 12, 2010, 09:27:05 PM
CFB Chilliwack was an Engineering School as well as being the HQ for 1 CER.  There were all kinds of military personnel of all ranks from all services coming and going.  It was also an Officer Training School.

The apparent confidence this suspect displayed is curious suggesting he was familiar with the area.

It will be a monumental task trying to identify the possible owner of the car with cars changing ownership so frequently.  If the car belonged to someone who had recently been posted to the base it may not even have been registered in B.C. at the time.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 13, 2010, 12:00:31 AM
NCI07 - I couldn't resist taking a quick look so I sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 13, 2010, 12:41:25 AM

Hi NCI07, I know that this may seem like a long shot but do believe that it is important to consider every possible scenario. Have you ever thought that maybe Joanne could have been taken by the person that stopped to help her in the phone booth, and could still be alive? Given the apparent tone of the phone call that the fellow in the phone booth made to Joanne's parents, could it be possible that he was so annoyed with their negligence that he decided to take her for himself, not necessarily sexually motivated, but just take her. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 13, 2010, 02:06:23 AM
Sure can't rule out any scenario until the case is resolved.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 13, 2010, 02:08:28 AM

I totally agree RW. It is so important to keep an open mind.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 03:45:30 AM
One more thought comes to mind everytime i read this thread. Found in earlier articles, this little piece of info doesn't sit right.
Quote
The clerk let Pedersen use the store phone, but she didn't know the Legion's number, so she went outside to call the operator on a pay phone.

Now you have a little ten year old girl locked out of her house, her parents not around and the girl is asking for help. The clerk was informed of the situation I am sure as they mentioned not knowing the legion number. Did they not have phone information service in that year?

Then the little girl is sent outside to use the phone where the unidentified man shows up shortly afterwards. He seems to be aware that something isn't right, and moves in quickly and forcefully to take over the situation. Now there is usually a feeling out process in a stranger on stranger chance encounter, the guy in the phone booth seems to have moved beyond that a little too quickly in my opinion almost as if he had inside information on the girls situation.

The clerk was apparently unconcerned about any of this the entire time? A little girl on her own late in the evening at a place like this, most would sort of keep an eye on her I would have assumed, not just send her out to a payphone and then look the other way. So my question is obvious, who was the clerk? If female, who was her boyfriend or husband? Could she/ he be covering for a "friend" or ???

Just can't quite reconcile this yet..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 13, 2010, 03:47:25 AM
Very good point.  Never considered that in that context before.  Sure would be interesting to find out who the clerk was......
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 13, 2010, 03:49:11 AM

I would think that it shouldn't be that difficult to find out who the clerk was. There are usually employee records kept.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 13, 2010, 03:51:09 AM
Definately worth serious consideration.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 04:49:38 PM
Even the language in that article, "an unidentified man interrupted the call" suggests he barged in on the situation, was either listening at the booth or had some other knowledge of the events before hand.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 05:21:12 PM
I'm not suggesting this is so either but, there were relatively few child abductions/ murders back before the time of Joanne's disappearance and one other was just down the road several years earlier. In that, there was female boarder dating a convicted male sex abuser living at the home of the murdered girl. Neither have been publicly named and the case was never "solved".  Apparently letters were also later sent in "anonymously" by the suspect to the little girls mother and police in that case.
see- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,256.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,256.0.html)

It happens, women protect male offenders and or even participate and facilitate. By chance was the girl who had been living at the same residence as Katherine Marie Herbert, later been working at the convenience store from where Joanne Pederson disappeared???

 Marie's mother Lillie, stops in and posts on this board. Perhaps she could have a look at this suspect sketch, and perhaps she knows what became of the female boarder after Marie disappeared.

Child killers were rare back then, there weren't multiple perps of this type running around everywhere. This would likely be a serial sex offender of some type like what was posted by nc107 earlier.

The above can at least be checked out and maybe ruled out by Lillie. The process of elimination can sometimes bare more fruit than many might think. Preposterous ideas and thoughts are more apt to checked out for that purpose other than as a real possibility. You never know what you'll find till you look..

Keep on it Nc107 all of this should be explored..this is totally theoretical as well.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 05:52:32 PM
Before moving on to more on the vehicle..Nc107..in your earlier post you identified some key aspects of this case. This part about the phone booth and the interactions that took place between the perp and Joanne seem to be telling us some sort of story. Maybe we just have to "interpret the clues". Your last post has expanded way into that area and opened multiple more possibilities. Is there anything in the detail that answers or narrows down the list? In the way the perp acted, did he leave clues as to how he knew Joanne was in a vulnerable position?

The comment of the little girl and the perp together in the phone booth got me wondering if the abduction occurred right then and there. Joanne was in effect caught and confined right then pinned in by the mans body. She couldn't escape even if she had wanted to. Did she get back on the phone with her parents after being interrupted during her call by the man? Did the man just hang up before anyone could say anything else ?
Any reports available on this..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 14, 2010, 02:40:58 PM
The crimestopper segment leaves me with the feeling that the man was in the store when Joanne first went in and overheard Joanne talking to the clerk. He was armed with the information required to pull off the act. The sequence of events is still a little unclear. One sighting has Joanne going directly to the phone booth. Another has the man in the phone booth, and then another places Joanne talking to a man outside the store. The witness descriptions seem to vary as if it is more than one person providing the information and or if there were more than one man involved in the events. The sighting of Joanne seen talking to a man outside the store is interesting in the sequence of events. It does not though say how long afterwards she was seen. One would assume that she had not just been cornered and abducted from the phone booth but had gone along with someone willingly.  Hence the police action of publicly asking for the man seen in the phone booth to come forward.

I would imagine that most of the people who had been in or at the store at the time have been identified.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2010, 02:44:43 AM
It's great to see all these new idea's and brain storming going on. All those connections to the other murdered little girls are extremely important in my opinion. There are only so many of these really deviated type of perverts running around and they don't seem able to stop themselves. They leave a trail.

Following up on NC107 (you started it) I am playing devils advocate a bit here but we are digging deeper every time..

Re the phone booth:

I recall a time many years ago being trapped in a phone booth with a larger person. There used to be doors on phone booths back then, the type that you had to move your body further inside to get them to close behind you. Like a closet by fold door system. Both parties would have to move tight against the inside wall for the door to open or close and to be able to access the phone. In that, there is opportunity to contain without it appearing so and delay by way of conversation or faked conversation until there is a lull in the outside action. Joanne was effectively caught with no way out at this juncture.

Obviously the abduction did take place during a lull in the action or there would be witness reports of the event. The perp had to have timed it that way, he had bad intentions right from the start IMO. How did he stage the final moments of the event and pull it off?

The reports seem to indicate that Joanne was also seen talking to a man outside the store.  We would have to assume that was after leaving the phone booth if reports are true. Apparently the clerk could see that action outside the store but failed to see the final moment of the abduction.. There doesn’t seem to be any reports of the exact location of the car in relation to the phone booth....If the abduction played out from the phone booth, and the car was parked right beside there, the clerk’s report of the sighting in front of the store would have to be considered suspect. The clerk could have known or been involved with the suspect in this scenario.  I would still like to know who the clerk was who sent Joanne out of the store, wouldn’t call information and who then reported this sighting. It almost exonerates the guy in the phone booth if the later sighting provided a different description from the man in the booth.  The credibility of the one clerk is paramount in all of this.

#2 The Call

The man in the booth just seems to have barged in on things and forcefully took over…In earlier news reports of how the serial child molester suspect got kids to follow him, he was employing threats in order to gain control and compliance. He was able to pull it off time and time again, it works.. This threatened compliance gets around requiring willing compliance but would appear as such and would otherwise appear to rule out a stranger. Remember we are dealing with the type of person who is killing children.

#3  The Boldness

I suspect it is a personality trait more so than drunken behaviour. Like in Kelly Cook’s murder, the suspect driving right up to the girls door right in front of her parents.
Re quote:

Quote
And that's how I though it might also tie in to whatever content was missing from the letter.  It was apparently really trying to help the police out, and I don't think a fifty or so year old man would be teasing them at this point.

Maybe reports of the letter aren’t true..  Down the road in Abbottsford Lillie Herbert apparently received a letter from the suspect about her murdered daughter only to have the letter disappear under suspicious circumstances after giving it to the police.

Maybe it’s just the public who are being duped here too? One would be led to believe the police have no idea who they should be looking for. My suspicions are that this guy is well known to the police, an attitude like his gets noticed..There are likely other victims. We have seen this sort of thing in other cases, rare but they happen and can’t be over ruled out right.
see- Terry Arnold prime suspect in Kelly Cook- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/board,84.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/board,84.0.html)

#4 Not a stranger

I agree with Des all the way on this aspect. I suspect anyone who knew Joanne was checked out well. A ten year old girl only knows so many older people and in this case we have a very specific vehicle description to go on. I can’t see anyone who knew Joanne well enough to pull off the familiarity routine being able to conceal the car or get away with it afterwards. He’d stick out like a sore thumb..




  
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 15, 2010, 05:35:55 PM
I like your thought NCI07, it comes across as logical and plausible.  :)

Does anyone know if that specific location has a bit of a special past, or reputation, so to speak? Anyone who lived there?  A special type of clientele / meeting place reputation?  Apparently it may have had.  I keep thinking about why he may have gone there that night, and then the police recently asking if anyone had by chance felt uncomfortable speaking to the police at that time, they hoped that they might feel more comfortable now...and this is just part of today's brainstorming...but what if someone could place him there that night, why might they not have wanted to come forward at the time...if they themselves had been engaged in illegal activity?  Buying or selling type of activity??  Just prior to the girl's arrival?  Of course, there are many other reasons why someone not feel comfortable talking to the police at that time, this was just one of today's ideas....
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2010, 08:06:38 PM
Good to go.. whatever viable scenario can be put together based on what little we know has as much validity as any other. After all its still unsolved..

I do like to take note of all the little irregularities and abnormalities found along the way and try to make some sense of them and eventually put them all together in some plausable fashion.

The actions of the clerk at the store still doesn't sit right so for me that will remain a piece to watch for other connections.

The attitude of the perp and his apparent brazenness reminds me of the perp in the Kelly Cook case and when I go back, I find that the prime suspect in Kelly's case has a whole history of sex crimes and is suspected in several other murders around the Chilliwack area. He was even later convicted of a murder that occured in this area.

Kelly's killer was first described as 30 plus years old but information suggests there are other reports being concealed that describe him as being much younger. I have taken note of the two different suspect descriptions and the change in the reports for the age of the suspect here in Joanne's murder. The new reported age, early twenties would make him of the same age as Kelly's prime suspect, and match the age of the  perp being concealed from the Calgary funeral home incident on the Kelly Cook thread..

As mentioned in other threads, if it were Terry Arnold, then everything becomes suspect including the police handling of the entire case. The man in the sketch seen with Joanne is described as being caucasian with a prominent moustache..I will compare descriptions and sketches for other similarities.



Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 15, 2010, 09:26:57 PM
Let's take this call from the phone booth. A call is made to the Legion where people are playing Bingo, horrible game, but anyway, the hall is filled with noise. The person answering the phone from the Legion says, 'Legion'. Someone asks to speak to so and so, (was it the little girl asking for her mother? Or did some one ask to speak to the stepfather? (what is his last name, anyone know?) (The little girl still has her biological father's last name?) Who asked to speak to the mother or stepfather? Anyone know?
It takes time for the person who answered the phone to go and find one of the parents and tell them, 'your daughter is on the phone." or 'someone wants to talk to you on the phone' or 'there's a phone call for you.'
The stepfather decides to take the call. Why? Maybe the mother is on a winning streak or doesn't want to miss a winning number, so she asks her husband to go, she's more enthralled with the game than he is. Generally the one least interested in the game or is losing will go. It takes time to get out of that darn Bingo chair, walk to where the phone is and answer it. There is a conversation and the phone is hung up. How long would, from the Legion employee answering the phone to the phone being hung up would that take? Ten minutes? Okay let's say 8 minutes. So the man and little girl are in the phone booth together for 8 minutes, or even let's say five minutes. That is still quite a bit of time. And all those people walking to and fro just glanced at the phone booth and took note of a male and female child. Obviously, since there are two different descriptions of the perp.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 16, 2010, 01:35:19 PM
Adding one point about Reberta Fergusson. T Arnold had access to and was using a car that matched the description of the red car in Roberta's abduction. He matched the suspect decription. A decomposed body body was found in a nearby ditch (not well concealed) sometime later. When Robert's brother first saw the skull, he said thats Roberta. The police said it wasn't..Well thats how it always goes with crimes involving T. Arnold.. all b.s. 
Info found in the calgary herald connections on t arnold thread.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 16, 2010, 07:27:37 PM
Excellent idea's, total agreement..by the way, I believe a wax impression was made of the skull found in the ditch near Chilliwack and Roberta's brother continued saying it was Roberta..strange...
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 17, 2010, 12:12:11 AM
The results of that type of investigation would be extremely interesting.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on February 18, 2010, 07:48:54 PM
As I understand it to be there was a land search. Anyone know the area searched? As NCI07 states above. Here is a man with a little girl he has just taken, (I'm not familiar with the area), Since the whether is inclement, and he knows he has given the parents 30 minutes to get to the convenience store, he probably took the closet road out of dodge. Which road would be the closest out of town, specifically? Would he go far? Probably not, if he is on drugs or drunk, he doesn't want to be stopped by the Police, but he would head to a secluded spot, or area, probably one that he has been at before, maybe fishing, camping, or even at a bush party, lot's of bush parties went on in that era, still do, for the young crowd. Or a secluded area with not much traffic passing by, since again it was raining. He does what he took the girl for, and reality says we all know what that is, kills her, inside the car, since it is raining out, or if it stopped raining, it is too wet outside, makes sense, and then disposes of her and the weapon. Odds are near where he parked. I agree with NCI07, he then would have to drive back to where he lives, probably in the area, clean himself and then the car, or visa versa. I wonder who saw him in a car wash in the early hours of the morning, if he was clear enough in the head to clean the car before returning to where he lived. Or would he go straight home dispose of his clothes, sleep, then clean the car. If he lived with someone, a woman, had a room-mate, or even rented a room and lived by himself someone saw something out of the usual, and please come forward and let the Police know. Don't feel as if what you know may make you feel or look stupid, when you talk to the Police. It wouldn't, the Police take all information seriously and confidentially. And if you help to catch a killer of a little girl, through the information you give to the Police, you get the money from the reward. Please speak up.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 20, 2010, 12:36:19 AM
There are some great ideas and procedures noted here on how a missing person search ideally should be conducted. Even so very long afterwards, the same could still be applied in a cold case records review. Many of the little pieces could be reviewed with an eye for that type of profiling detail. Cast a wide net at first and keep reeling it in. Something will show up, but will it be recognized for what it is?

Unfortunately most of us aren't privy to the police files, the search has long since been forgotten by most by the time we are looking at it.. There are a few old statements left around, a few witness reports and a smattering of this and that. Its not really enough to go on in most cases, we all know that so we focus in on a few key tidbits, the anomalies. Who said what that didn't quite sound right, what was the meaning of some minor little piece of evidence, we pick what we know apart and try to make sense of it. Sometimes, we end up right back at the same place where the police left off.

Time has its own way of telling a story, a serial offender in his first few years can go undetected but he lays the ground work to recognize his pattern later on. Once that is a recognizable feature, the pattern can be layed down and compared against what would otherwise have been other unconnectable crimes. From there, the details obtained from other crimes may provide leads as to where he might have disposed of a body in an earlier crime,  etc...

Trying on a suspect for a crime can pay great dividends if pursued fully with that object in mind. Its not the wide net approach where you are still looking at everything, its almost the opposite, a deliberate tunnel vision approach to see if it could possibly have been a certain suspect? Build on it from there rule him in or out..It's just playing out the only fish on the line till the bitter end..

ADDED
quote from an earlier post.
Quote
Here is an interesting read on the main suspect in the Roberta Ferguson case; it's about Terry Arnold (I do not believe police consider him to be the suspect in this case for various reasons):

Nothing the police say can be trusted when it comes to Terry Arnold. If Arnold is indeed a viable suspect in Joanne's disappearance, then nothing the police say about this entire investigation can be trusted..Letting him off the hook without performing due diligence could be the deciding factor as to whether this case will remain unsolved with zero suspects forever.

Child killers are rare, they violate the most sacred of human instincts.. Once started they seldom quit, its almost a religious experience for them. There will be a trail..somewhere...!!!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 26, 2010, 03:58:24 PM
After so much time passes with no resolution in sight, I think its pretty common for residents to point the finger here and there without much of a basis for it other than just grasping at straws in a last ditch attempt to generate some sort of lead.

The above procedure is all well and good if employed at the time or if one has access to the police files. All we have is a suspect and vehicle description to go on. IMO the person responsible for this did others similar crimes.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 27, 2010, 12:59:03 AM
If I remember correctly fingers were being pointed at the Ryder Lake area at the time Joanne went missing.

I was involved in two searches at the time with off duty members of the military stationed at CFB Chilliwack.  There was talk of that area then however I do not know if any searches were conducted in that area.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 27, 2010, 05:39:09 PM
RW, I've seen it mentioned on this site about the way a proper grid search is done. My understanding is that the military uses that method. In light of the fact that the searches you were involved with were conducted by off duty members of the military stationed at CFB Chilliwack, I'm curious as to whether that is the way the searches were carried out.

It would be interesting to find out if the Ryder Lake area was searched at the time as well.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: RW on February 27, 2010, 08:39:24 PM
Yes, our volunteer group did a proper grid search in the areas we searched - 3 meters apart in a compass bearing direction with no deviation - standard search method.

I do not know if the Ryder Lake area was ever searched or not.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: capeheart on March 01, 2010, 05:27:05 PM
NC107, where was the letter that was received in 2008. I guess they would send that for forensics and see if there was any DNA profile they could get from this. I just would imagine that this man is the perp, I mean when he identified what she was wearing. Maybe this person wants to get caught. Why after all this time would this person write a letter about Joanne Marie Pederson in 2008 and she went missing in 1983. A person hiding in plain sight, someone right in the neighbourhood and possibly a split personality.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 01, 2010, 06:00:05 PM

I have also never been able to find a description of what Joanne was wearing the day she went missing. That in itself seems so unusual to me, as you would think that a detailed description would have been issued immediately, not just of her physical appearance but of everything she was wearing, just in case anyone saw her. I wonder if any of the local radio stations would have reported that at the time.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: capeheart on March 01, 2010, 07:15:06 PM
The thing that gets me here is, he remembers what she was wearing that evening. What are the chances of just a witness seeing someone they were going to help, remember the clothing after all these years. I mean it is hard to get an eye witness at a robbery to get the story straight and we've seen that proven many times. I believe he is the person that knows what happened to Joanne, just because he remembers about the clothing. A good clue, I think.  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 01, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Or an explanation as to why after breaking in on the phone conversation and telling Joanne's parents to be there in half an hour or he'd call the police, that he apparently just left???? I still call b.s.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 02, 2010, 01:20:54 AM
I have no problem with the police pretending they believe the man in the phone booth was there to help, I just don't think we all have to go along with it. IMO it is just a ruse to entice the killer into responding, maybe some deep pschological profiling has suggested he would be prone to that. Wish them the best of luck with that but wouldn't put all the eggs in that basket.

I highly suspect the police know a whole bunch more than they would like us to believe...The perp may just be playing cat and mouse or some other game with the cops to relive the experience.

I keep stumbling over this point in the back of my mind about how unusual and rare child kilers were back then..By all indication they seldom quit. Where are the similar crimes and who were the suspects? Did any of those perps reside in the chilliwack area or have reason to be in the vicinity at that time? There are likely but a handfull worthy of consideration.

If no connections are found to any known offender by process of elimination, maybe the question is, what kind of perp commits a one off crime like this???





Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 02, 2010, 01:03:57 PM
This crime did occur in what was a relatively small community. There aren't a lot of people who could just disappear into the background following a crime like this. In Canada, there were very few known child killers back at that time. Its not an ever expanding pool we are looking at, rather a small select group and it would only be due diligence to at least attempt to determine if any of them had lived in or frequented this area back at the time. Suppose a Terry Arnold type was found to have been living up Ryder mountain for instance. That would trump whatever else has surfaced to date IMO. I would focus in, I would get tunnel vision, I would concentrate all search efforts around his activities and MO. Sure its a crap shoot to some degree but otherwise, 25 years later, we are really just waiting around for the perp to turn himself in.

Quote
Please come forward to resolve this for her family."
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: capeheart on March 03, 2010, 01:57:33 PM
NC107, a great outline of those cases. I too believe the child knew the person who abducted her. I do hope that this case will be solved even after all this time. Thanks for the information on those other cases, very interesting.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 03, 2010, 04:56:29 PM
I personally don't believe Joanne knew her abductor. During the phone call he should have made mention of why he was offering assistance to Joanne even if just to gain her confidence and if she knew him, she could have made mention of that to her parents during the call. Secondly, the car should have been located by all rights if it belonged to anyone who may have been in contact with Joanne in a similar way as those listed above. (good work nc107)

I don't have any information as to where Terry Arnold was at this exact time, he moved around a lot following Barb Stoppel's murder. Calgary 1980 Winnipeg 1981, later he surfaced in the Chilliwack Vedder area and was suspected in another murder but I do not know what drew him there. Relative maybe?

re: from nc 107 - one of those little tidbits
Quote
Article summary:

RCMP appealing to man
Man: messy/wavy hair
Initially a suspect, but now believed to have been trying to help girl.
Video was made to help jog his memory.
Police got a break in case over a year ago.
Description: white, 20-23 , average build, over six feet tall, waist length leather jacket, was driving a 1970s-style two door white or cream colored domestic car with dark landau roof

A similar description has come up in two other child abduction cases.
see- dana bradley suspect description at- http://www.mindytran.com/murrinscrimes.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/murrinscrimes.htm)

Quote
The description of the suspect was given as approximately 5'8", late twenties, slim build, dirty blond/brown messy,unkempt hair, collar length

then from mindytran
Quote
It was the first time she's seen the unkempt man.
found in news article

Shannon Murrin has been known to wear a short black leather jacket quite often.
 
As noted, Clifford Olson has already been ruled out..but both of the above are still viable. Arnold wore glasses, Murrin did not, both were known to cultivate this same style moustache. Both are known sexual deviants, both have enjoyed an unusual amount of police protection over the years.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: capeheart on March 04, 2010, 07:06:18 PM
I do believe also in any of those high profile murder cases that there should be a lead investigator with knowledge on how to accumulate all the clues, evidence and sit down and dissect it over and over until the puzzle comes together. Every little tidbit has to be handed over to the lead investigator. I do believe that a lot of these crimes could be solved if the investigation was done proper. So many times I have heard witnesses say in cold cases, oh, I asked the police to come over to my place three or four times and they never interviewed me. Every witness has to be heard and notes made of what they said and even video statements. I know sometimes there are not a lot of officers to handle these cases. But if it was set up in the first stages of a homicide investigation what has to be done, I believe the adrenlin would be there and they could get it done. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 11, 2010, 01:40:07 AM
There's a lot of thought gone in to this NC..I haven't had the time to get caught right up on this and can't comment in the manner that is warranted. But I'd like to add a few remarks about some earlier points.

Re: how the killer would be able to disappear off into the background if he were from that area. I could agree with the points being made except that he would not just go off "unnoticed". Someone would have known or suspected him and noted it.

Re: the suspect description..
Quote
and with the Tom Selleck Magnum P.I ./pseudo rock star look being mightly stylish at the time, I might just think it was someone else who looked similar.

For witnesses to mention the messy hair and look, it must have been something that stood out pretty good, not just a gust of wind messy or forgot to brush his hair that day messy. I think that this was his look, like the Charles Manson style..wild and free ....whee.. Maybe more the psycho type, maybe the car wasn't even his..

Re: Arnold.. he was only brought up due to his later known activities and the fact that he was known to frequent this area at later dates. I agree that given what was going on in Winnipeg at the time, it was very unlikely he could have been out here. But the fighting and maritial breakdown seemed to have been a trigger for Arnold to kill in the past. You wouldn't want to be a woman and be around Arnold while he was in the state of mind described. He was likely to have taken it out on someone, somewhere, right at that time. Were the threats to his exwife at the time being made by phone?

Re: the repeating messy haired unkempt suspect description in multiple child abductions. If this were another case involving that same suspect, then there are also three vehicle descriptions involved, none found in any case involving the unkempt messy haired man. Shannon Murrin was identified as a suspect by the Mindy Tran investigation. If him, then deliberate obstruction is also a possibility.

Both Shannon Murrin and Terry Arnold have left their voices on tape recordings over the years. Arnold's voice recordings are with the Calgary Herald and Murrin can be heard in multiple interviews. Joanne's parents may be able to rule either out by that alone. Did the person who interrupted the phone call between Joanne and her parents have any distinguishable accent?


Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on March 29, 2010, 09:14:52 PM
well done NCI07!  :) You should apply to a cold case unit.  :) That way at least some of these cold cases will be solved.  :)
A lot of thought went into the different scenario's and I concur with most of it. I also think that little Joanne new her abductor. And who is generally found to be the perp? Why a neighbour or relative.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on March 29, 2010, 09:27:46 PM
I have a question; is Joanne's last name spelled Pederson or Pedersen? Just wondering...............
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 01, 2010, 01:01:53 PM
NC; I don't know about 1983, but where I live (Nova Scotia), appointed search parties don't have to be given access.  They have to search everywhere.  I know that because I was babysitting at my son's home a few years ago when a woman went missing in Cape Breton.  I looked out the window and the whole search party was active in the pond behind his house and all areas of adjoining homes.  They didn't ask my permission.  When I went out to ask what they were doing there, they just explained they were Search and Rescue and they have to "search everywhere".
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 02, 2010, 11:12:34 PM
Apologies for the lengthy post, haven't had much time to get caught up on this lately. Posted my reply as attachment to keep the current discussion going.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 03, 2010, 10:18:37 AM
Not so, NC.. "generally speaking", consensus is a gradual process..it was just in my opinion that it was nearing that stage. Maybe even pre-emptive on my part. I am not obligated to T. Arnold as the only suspect, I just don't believe he should be ruled out so easily. A car is all that was need for him to pull this off. The truth is what it is and hopefully that will all come out someday.

I support this idea-
Quote
One thing that might help new visitors/members to this thread is to actually have two related threads as there are on the U.S. equivilent of this site - a thread solely for media reports, and a thread solely for commenting.

Who knows, maybe our divergent theories will even merge someday; suppose one of Arnold's step brothers was living up Rider mt. or something like that at the time?

There isn't much a private individual can do on his own in respect to T. Arnold. I wanted to leave something about him here on this thread though in case someone with more information should come across it. Any past employees from Conklin amusements could hold the key and there are hundreds of them.

The basis for my position is in the warrant, not much more I can say.. Carry on nc.. I know you leave qualifiers on your posts, your arguments are just too fact filled and too persuasive for most not to believe..  I will leave this alone now..

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 03, 2010, 12:42:22 PM
When I read D1's synopsis, I can't help but go back and see Kelly Cook's horrible ordeal materialize in my head, all over again.
Sorry for getting "off topic"; just had to get that off my chest.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 01:12:17 PM
We don’t know Joanne’s personality, the way she would react in a given situation. When locked out of her home, she would be at first upset, then angry.  (Leslie Mahaffy comes to mind when her mother locked her out of the house, she walked to the nearest convience store to phone her friend so her friends mother could come and fetch her. It was at that store she ran into Bernardo, who offered her a cigarette. He was a handsome, congenial stranger.) However with Joanne, her family had moved there not too many months before Joanne disappeared. My personal belief is she knew this man, liked and trusted this man, he was like ‘family’ to her. He promised her something, a ride to her grandmother’s for example, instead of to home, where there would be strife, yelling etc. due to the girls locking another child out of the home. Which by the way, would be a terrible burden of guilt for those two to carry for the rest of their lives, knowing they were the cause for Joanne going missing all these years.  This was Joanne’s step-father, would he know the male relative’s of Joanne’s natural father? I doubt it.  Or their voices? I doubt it. So to Joanne’s step-father this was a stranger who threatened to phone the police.
A man, young, runs into a young girl he knows in front of  the store. He sees she is upset and asks why, or what she is doing out in the rain at that time of night. She tells him her story. At first he is mad that this has happened, so they go into the phone booth, and he phones the Legion, whereupon the step-father answers. We don’t know if the stranger asked for the mother or father. If he asked for the mother, she would probably recognize his voice, so he asked for the step-father. They step into the phone booth with all people toing and froing, not paying too much attention, but hurrying due to the cold wet weather, we all do it. Because the man is still angry about what happened to Joanne, he threatens the step-father. What happens after he hangs up? “Come on I’ll take you to your grandmother’s house.” And off they go to his car. Joanne is happy that someone she likes is helping her, so she doesn’t make a fuss. If there was force used to take Joanne, would she make a lot of noise?  Attract attention to herself?   
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 03:38:49 PM
Does anyone know the distance from Joanne's home, or the store, to Joanne's Grandmother's house? Also does anyone know if the Grandmother was the Paternal or maternal grandmother?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 04:52:14 PM
If a call did take place I'm sure, but there is no telling with the Police, followed up on tracking where the call came from. Probably from a phone booth, would be ironic if the call came from the same phone booth where Joanne was abducted from. There are sick minded people like that out there. I'm wondering, if he offered Joanne a ride to her Grandmother's. I'm wondering what bodies of water are near the Grandmother's place of residence and a body of water which is isolated. I'm also wondering what male lived in that area who knew Joanne quite well.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 10:16:18 PM
Does anyone know the strength of the Chilliwack River? Particularly in February? Does the river flow into the ocean or away from it to, I dunno, somewhere else?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 11:28:38 PM
Interesting. Thanks NCI07!   :) What is the direction from the store to get to the river?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 03, 2010, 11:39:11 PM
I take it there's a lovers lane somewhere along that river, there always is. If there is I'm wondering if it is still in use? Or was used in 1983. Have any readers or posters used the lover's lane in 1982 or 1983? If you have what is the lane like?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 04, 2010, 12:26:01 AM
Good question NCI07. Maybe a map should be posted. Showing the area? Do you know how to post such a map NCI07?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 04, 2010, 12:48:43 AM
Does anyone out there know if a 'youngish' male family member worked at or near CFB?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 04, 2010, 01:12:10 AM
Does anyone out there know who lived in the house across the street from the Pedersen's at that time?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 04, 2010, 01:43:25 AM
Does anyone out there know who the janitor was of the school Joanne attended?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 04, 2010, 09:26:21 AM
NC; I went down the Vedders Road last night.....if Joanne lived on 5800 block, she lived right near the Forces Bases; and also Vedders Crossing -which is a bridge across the Chilliwack river.  You pass Dairy Queen, the Forces Base, then come to the crossing where you can go into the mountains or east toward Ryders Lake where grandmother lives. 
I put myself down on the Road and walked that bridge (you can do that with the little man icon)....the river is right there!  Depending on how hard that river/lake flows or how deep it is, it would be a quick place to dispose of a smaller body.
If her abductor had her confidence (and we feel she did), I'm guessing they were going in that direction as he would have promised, (to get her co-operation.0
The other scenario, as far as water is concerned, are small lakes etc. around a few of the native reserves.
I can't help but think he put her in the Clilliwack River or went a short ways up into the mountains to dump the child.  If in the mountains, the wild life would surely drag her off.
Native people are pretty nature inclined -always checking out their land reserves and hunting/fishing.  The most likely would have found her...had she been dumped there.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 04, 2010, 11:43:24 PM
I don’t think he was in the store, the clerk would have given a description, or names of those who had been in the store that night, and the Police would have interviewed the people in the store. Hopefully. Unless when the Police interviewed the perp he was so good at deception that the Police believed whatever story he gave them.
What I think is when Joanne stepped outside he was about to enter. They both recognized one another. They were friends, as in they knew one another well. He asked what she was doing out and about in the rain. She told him what had happened between her sister and cousin.
He walked with her over to the phone booth, he entered first and picked up the hand set. Joanne stepped inside out of the rain to stand in front of him. (Adults are used to taking charge where children are concerned)
Did he know the Legion phone number? Or did he dial zero and ask the operator for the number? I’m sure only the Police know the answer to that question.
Joanne could only hear one side of the conversation which was the perps.
After speaking with Joanne’s step-father, he hung up and probably told her a different story than what the step-father had said to him. He calmed her in other words.
And probably made a promise to her, as in, I’ll take you to your Grandmother’s.
Trusting this man, Joanne and he rode off into the rain. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 05, 2010, 01:29:06 PM
NC; aside from the Chilliwack River (which runs under the bridge at Vedders Crossing) where would you say is the next closes small lake or pond?  I would say Sleepy Hollow Road (I think south east)....I'm not sure how these maps come up??? :-[
I can't find any at all further into town (other end of Vedders Road)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 05, 2010, 04:36:16 PM
NC; what about a little south;  I say Sleep Hollow Road is only a few miles if one knows the area and takes the dirt roads.  
I believe it may be a deep pond/lake....not very big for a lake, but I suspect Joanne's abductor was from around where her grandmothe lived.....it's a gut feeling I have; (I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time) but it's off the beaten track and secluded.  I don't know how much the native people would be out and about around that time.... maybe they don't bother with that small lake/pond at all.  I'm guessing better fishing in the Chilliwack.  I'm a stranger, but I'd throw my line in the Chilliwack!
Then he'd be right back on the road home.
The other alternative is a splash of water in the other direction (from Vedders Road and up the mountain a few miles....looks like a small pool a the foot of a mountainous hill???
tip: I look at the "map view first" to get all the "blue water" in my mind's eye....then I zoom in to sattilite, and try to remember where the water was.  It might look like clumps of trees, but it is water.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 05, 2010, 08:00:14 PM
NC when you zoom in on the map and come down Vedders Road to the crossing, all the establishment's names pop up (with their street # in most cases)....there's a burger place....all kinds of business...both sides of the road.  I have to look again tomorrow, but I think I saw a roadside restaurant at the crossing.  You have to put yourself down on the street and turn all around....then move further on and do it again.....it takes time and patience.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 05, 2010, 08:13:39 PM
I understand what you are saying Lostlinganer. I was thinking more along the lines of a restaurant which catered to after bar hours. This was a Saturday when the little one went missing. So those restaurants, which stayed open to cater to that crowd, in that year would be the restaurant to look for. Type hangs with type, and probably the perp would gravitate to low life's who drank and then hit the restaurant afterward.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 05, 2010, 08:18:41 PM
I'll try googling 1983 to find out what life was like around there....and I'll make a note of the streets NC mentions...see if there were known buisnesses.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 05, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Lostlinganer, We're looking for a restaurant which stayed open past 2:22 AM. Or a restaurant which had apartments either over it, or  attached to it. But also a restaurant which he may have worked in. What I am thinking: is there a restaurant Joanne had to pass on her way to school? Also did Joanne take a short cut to school. Maybe a lane which cut in behind a restaurant which was a short cut to school? 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 05, 2010, 08:59:51 PM
OK....this is really long ....111 eating establishment...... I'm falling asleep, so I will plop this here for now....and delete it tomorrow.  I'm up since 8 am.
I don't know which of these were around in 1983.  You can click on the link and probably find out more particulars....I'm not sure though.

Here they are....I'll delete this post tomorrow.
Here the link also:
http://foodpages.ca/?SearchDD=1&lang=en&GoGuestB=Restaurants&locate=Chilliwack%2C+BC&namef=&subcategoryf=&itemsf=&advsrch=1&city=BROSSARD&prov=QC&submit.x=15&submit.y=10

NC  If you click on the above link....you can put in any of the streets in question, and put in miles (like 4 miles) and it will give you all the eating establishments within a 4-mile radius of that street.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 08, 2010, 12:01:33 PM
I'm wondering if the Police talked to any children, other than the sister and cousin, after Joanne went missing? Anyone out there know?
My guesstimate is no, not during that era. I'm wondering if the Police down the road through these long years of Joanne missing, went back to talk to any young adults who knew Joanne at that time? Anyone know? Or even adults who had contact with Joanne? Anyone know?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 08, 2010, 02:05:59 PM
Sleuth; it seems to be a very "compact" town area.  If we have any keen people in that area, they could take one day and go to the libraries, the restaurants, and especially the "geasey spoons".  .....and get into converstaion about the early 1980's.  I would definitely be doing that if I was there.

I would also write up a touching little story about finding closure for the child and family....and lifting the fear from those left behind bringing up children.  I would stess the magnitude of importance in doing this at this time.  ....don't forget, you would be running into young mothers and fathers who were Joanne's age at the time.  I would make them come up with the idea that they should do something now about what happened to Joanne, because history always tends to repeat itself.  But I wouldn't push it down their throats; I would let it be their own idea/s.

It is a worthwhile endeavor.  I can't believe how people come in here peep and satisfying there curiosity, but won't do "scwat" to bring the case to a serious head, so that police can solve it.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 09, 2010, 11:59:45 AM
 I can't believe how people come in here peep and satisfying there curiosity, but won't do "scwat" to bring the case to a serious head, so that police can solve it.

I agree with you lostlinganer. That is why I was thinking of not posting anything anymore on this thread even tho a few more things have been found in this cold case.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 09, 2010, 01:08:39 PM
NCI07, would one of the places be a place that catered to hungry drunks when the bars closed?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 09, 2010, 01:36:32 PM
Sleuth; the list of bars and restaurants tells me that people could eat round the clock.... and drink booze too.  Most of these restaurants are licensed.... if there's 111 in Vedders Rd area now, there probably was then too..... and in those days, probably a lot of greasy spoons with adjoining apartments..that paid min. wage and rented out apt./s or rooms.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 09, 2010, 01:37:40 PM
NC, exactly where was Joanne's home?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 09, 2010, 03:08:53 PM
thanks NC...5800 blocks sounds familar.  ...guess too many address in this over-crowded hard drive right now.  My head need to be reformated.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 10, 2010, 02:08:10 AM
Okay, the area has now been narrowed down to a 2 mile radius of the store.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on April 10, 2010, 12:15:40 PM
I'm wondering if the Army would still have records of who was off base that night. Does the Army keep records of that kind of stuff? Does someone in the Army have to log out/sign out and back in when they return? Or do they just wander willy nilly in and out of the base at free will.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 10, 2010, 03:46:59 PM
..would be good is such info. was public.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 10, 2010, 04:55:04 PM
eating places near corner of Watson/Vedders
(from the link about 14 post previous)

I've put the distance from the corner of Watson and Vedder in red

I repeated Watson and Vedder and second time got 5 more eating establishments.


I will go on and do Thomas/Vedders
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 10, 2010, 06:17:27 PM
..better yet; you guys just have to see what a guy put together in the google maps site.  This guy did a great job...I left a comment.  
Here's the link.... all about Joanne!
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=33&msid=108404882215241430627.0004801d8c56a9751d6fa&abauth=4bc1132dtm7v1wF0iOYVD4PG2bZiV9HuA7U

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 11, 2010, 03:07:01 PM
I just finished re-reading this whole thread.  While I don't want to steer anybody off their train of thought in regards to arriving at a conclusion as to "a most likely suspect", there are three things i find sticking with me after re-reading.
1.  For some reason, I find myself curious about this:  - Did Joanne's sister or the other girl (in that hour when the two girls locked Joanne out of the house) maybe happen to mention to anyone else at all that they had left Joanne out in the neighborhood alone? (it seems to be the consensus that the police would have checked that out thoroughly.)  We have no way of knowing if the police did in fact, ask the girls this question; nor, do we know how they answered.  They may have been so upset, they didn't realize they mentioned it to someone.  Also, that perp may have happened to be driving by, or parked near by, when the little scuffle took place and Joanne headed for the store.

2.  Also, like Magnum PI, I always get that little nagging in my head about something that won't go away.  That something is a gut feeling I have that the abductor was a neighbor or someone from Joanne's grandmother's area, that happened upon the opportunity, and "siezed the moment".....dragging her off to the the Ryders Lake area.

3.  Also, I couldn't help but notice the resemblance between the sketch of Joann'es  abductor, and a sketch of an abductor in another case (highway of tears sketch released thirteen years later -and I do believe haunted pointed out this)  also one released in 1995, but I have to go back and find out where I got it.  I just find the predominant cheek bones, overall facial structure, eyes, lips, hair (although it's shorter later) could be the same guy.  ....and I do believe one of these was compared with Terry Arnold.   In the Vancouver95 pic, it's the first one only.

Just a few things I wanted to get off my mind!  ....guess I'll never make up my mind who a most likely suspect is.  Hope everybody keeps this discussion going.  You'll never know what we say that might make somebody post an all-important tid-bit.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 12, 2010, 12:14:39 PM
Lost is right, (again) this thread needs to be kept going. Seems to have gone through a stage here where the parameters have been opened so wide we are back looking at almost everyone within a 100 mile radius of the store on that night.

For me it is far easier to go to the point of how rare a killer like this was, back in those years especially. Believe it or not, there aren't a whole bunch of men lurking about waiting and watching for an opportunity to catch a 10 year old girl in a vulnerable position that they can exploit. Those type are rare even now, there are very few of them and they more often than not reoffend in the same manner if not caught. This isn't a crime that people "try out" to see if they like it or not and then decide that wasn't for them and quit.

I believe he is in plain sight, right under our noses, just need to undersatnd how the pieces fit.

so yes Lost...
Quote
Hope everybody keeps this discussion going.  You'll never know what we say that might make somebody post an all-important tid-bit
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2010, 03:28:03 PM
I found that piece dealing with the third mugshot above.  It is a link posted by NC back on page 3 of this thread. 

Serial rapist possibly linked to several other cases; working Lower Mainland since 1980s
Police say attacker follows common pattern

Shane Bigham Jan 25, 2010 11:49:05 AM
15 Recommendation(s) VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) -

 A serial rapist linked to three attacks against children in Vancouver, Surrey and Delta might be responsible for several other cases.  Police say the suspect has been stalking the Lower Mainland for possibly more than 20 years.

Vancouver Police Inspector Bob Usui says the suspect follows a common pattern.  "He approaches children, as young as six years old on foot and asks for information, directions, or seeks assistance in some way.  We strongly believe that there are five additional cases linked to this suspect."

Usui says the man is linked by DNA to attacks in Vancouver in 1995, Delta in 2007 and Surrey last year, where he raped a six-year-old girl in the woods as he threatened her brother and his friend with a knife.

The suspect might be responsible for a series of other attacks, all in Vancouver, dating from the late 80s to the mid-90s.  Dr. Matt Logan, a behavioural specialist, says the man could be anywhere between 30 to 50 years old.


Logan had a message for the suspect.  "For years, you have been dealing with fantasies around young children.  You don't want to hurt them you've even told some of your victims that you don't want to hurt them.  Now is the time to act."

Police have received more than 11,000 hits on its website since the story was released Monday morning. They are directly appealing to the attacker and have set up a phone number (604.779.7581) for him to call and speak with a professional.

Anyone else with information can call a special tip line at 778-331-4100.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 16, 2010, 02:26:47 PM
More and more, the details that have been revealed here have caused me to reflect upon a conversation I was party to in the past with Terry Arnold. Arnold spoke of many crimes and victims in a very short period of time. The names and details became difficult to keep straight from each other. However, the more I read of the details involving the mystery man in Joanne’s disappearance, the more I am convinced Joanne is likely one of the victims Arnold spoke of. Arnold had a wider face and features that gave the impression of him being native even though he were white. He said that he had become aroused after being in the close confines of a phone booth with a young girl. He talked about taking a girl right from the area around a store, to somewhere close by (not by driving) where there was a shallow pond. He said he tied the sleeves of her jacket together and filled the jacket full of rocks that he had found right there. She was placed in the pond possibly behind or between other rocks in a way that would make it difficult for her to be found. I have become reluctant to say anymore on the subject of Terry Arnold and I have been assured that there is no way Joanne could have been missed during the initial search if she were left right there.

It was a quote from another member in regard to another case that prompted me to post this anyway despite the appearance.

from http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3017.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3017.0.html)

Quote
“for anyone who has followed this case will know that pretty extensive searches took place near Ste.Anne Mb and back in 88 there were about 50 police side by side that actually searched the bush off the #1hwy by lilac and paradise village, well this search started at my uncles yard. Now today May 13  22yrs later my uncle came home to find a human skull on his front lawn that his dog brought home,”


So, for what it’s worth, I am leaving this here just to be done with it. I don’t have anything else to add to this thread other than what I have already said in regard to Arnold in an earlier post.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: capeheart on May 16, 2010, 05:04:22 PM
There certainly is a great bit of information gathered by everyone related to this case. NC was very hard at work posting material and investigating this thread. Lost and Sleuth, you have posted a great deal of interesting information. With the sketches and all, you would think somebody would have been brought in related to Joanne. A long time and still maybe it could be solved, who knows. ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on May 16, 2010, 09:11:12 PM
Unfortunately I am going to have to disagree with you D1. I don't believe it was Arnold. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 16, 2010, 11:56:03 PM
Thats OK I already know that. I'm not looking for agreement, just leaving a record of what I heard said should she ever be found with a jacket filled with rocks.. Carry on and best of luck..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 17, 2010, 12:51:04 AM
Thanks Des, there has been a haunting aspect to all of this that would not let me be. But I can and will move along now that I have recognized and left a record of what has bothered me.. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on May 17, 2010, 11:50:18 AM
back a month or so ago.... I recall reading a little bitty somewhere about Terry Arnold being in the vicinity of this murder at the time.  I've tried a few times to dig that link back up....even browsed all the old history on my pc...couldn't find it ....I know it hit me like a ton of bricks at the time, for some reason.  Can anyone pinpoint Arnold's whereabouts in 1983?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 17, 2010, 01:17:50 PM
All I was told was that Arnold had family in the Chilliwack area at the time. I don't know if the person supplying that info was able to determine if Terry Arnold was around there at the time or not. That would be very significant if it could be proven that he was.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on May 17, 2010, 07:34:31 PM
Not to distract from who is most considered suspect or not in Joanne's murder, but I couldn't help but keep going back to Terry Arnold.  He would have been 20 years old in 1983..... the story on injusticebusters tells of at least 20 years of murders, he may be responsible for.  The following is just a short piece from the story...it's well worth reading..... I also wondered about Kelly Cook for sure.  Arnold always looked older....the kind of person who seems the same age forever!

Quote
Lisa Morry , Chilliwak, Times, Devember 9, 2003

Vancouver RCMP are concerned that a man with a series of violent convictions on his file has been released from custody in Victoria.

Terry Arnold, 39, who was convicted of sexual assault in Chilliwack in 1988 and is a suspect in the disappearance of a teenager from Cultus Lake, also in 1988, was awaiting retrial in the death of Christine Browne, who was found raped and murdered near Keremeos in 1991.

The pretrial meetings were scheduled for this coming week and the trial was set for May, Sgt. Grant Learned, RCMP media relations said. On Thursday, shortly before courts closed for the Easter long weekend, Crown prosecutors entered a stay of proceedings and Arnold was released.

"It was a great concern to us that this happened on what appears to be very short notice," Learned said, adding that police don't know why the Crown let Arnold go.

Police had only a little longer than an hour's notice to phone concerned family members about what had happened. With everyone away for the long weekend, there wasn't enough time, Learned said.

It has been reported that Arnold, convicted of raping a young Chilliwack girl, is linked with investigations in Calgary and Winnipeg and the disappearance of a young woman from a Cultus Lake camping trip, as well as a spree of other incidents during the past 20 years, Learned said he would not comment unless Arnold was actually charged in those cases. He said everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence and rights of privacy.

However, Learned was able to shed a little more light on Arnold's whereabouts. He said police may have some idea of where he is staying right now.

According to a Vancouver Sun story published March 1, 2001, Arnold was convicted of sexually assaulting a teenager when he was staying at the Riverside campground in 1988.

It was also on Aug. 24, 1988 that 19-year-old Roberta Ferguson disappeared near Cultus Lake. The Surrey woman was celebrating the end of a summer work program at Sunnyside campground when she disappeared from a campfire

read it all at:  it clearly shows he was responsible for Barbara S. murder.

http://www.injusticebusters.com/05/Arnold_Terry.shtml
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 29, 2010, 10:56:12 AM
I have become well aware of the difficulties and problems that everyone else who ever pursued Terry Arnold for any murder has experienced. Something is wrong with almost every case in which Arnold has been named as a suspect.

Although never named in Joanne's disappearance, the "confession" he gave while bragging about his exploits while intoxicated leave me no other conclusion other than she was one that he spoke of. During a recent conversation with a person who was familiar with the area, something was mentioned that fit with the exact circumstance as described by Arnold.

Arnold had claimed that he hid the body of a girl in a pond but in a manner so that she would "never be found even if you were right on top of her". He spoke of nearly breaking his leg after climbing up on a rock pile in the middle of a pond and falling through a hollow opening in the middle. Thats where he said he put the body and then rolled some of the surrounding rocks over the opening.

A person told me about a practice that was done at one time by the CPR and others where rocks were piled up around a pole in a cone shape when telegraph, telephone lines etc had to be run across ponds and low lying areas in the old days. The suggestion was made that these had likely all been replaced over the years but that the rock piles may have remained or the butt end of the pole rotted out leaving a space in a cone of rocks.

Arnold said he never drove her off, merely walked a trail beginning from somewhere in close proximatey to the store which led to the pond area. There is or was likely only one spot somewhere close by that matches these conditions.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on May 29, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
Good to see you again D1. 
As is the case in many other subjects on here;  I have noticed in the last week or so, I've been running into, otherwise unheard of, incidents about some of these violent criminals. A few nights ago, I ran into a real eye-opener regarding two NS unsolved murders (and posted what I ran into, in the appropriate threads, in hopes families or loved ones might just get mad enough to go after these cover-up cops, and force justice to be served.) 

There are always people out there who know more, and just don't realize how important it is to get it out in the public.  Most of all, the biggest draw back is the fact that so many people have already given information to police - who intern decided to disregard the information, or sweep it under the mat.
It's clear to me that the latter is the biggest reason for so many unsolved murders.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 29, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
yep, leaving this for the same reasons Lost, maybe someday someone from the Chiliwack area will recognize or recall a location that fits this description. It should be close to the store, a trail should have pretty well led right to this pond at the time and there shouldn't be many other choices. Its pretty specific..  
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: art-hu on July 12, 2010, 07:07:00 PM
Micheala Joy Garecht-9 yrs. old. female

Missing Nov. 19 1988
Hayward California
description of this guy seems similar,
6' 180lbs. dirty blond shoulder lenght hair- pimpled face
older model sedan, gold or tan.
ck. out,   www.f.b.i.gov/wanted

Also in 1970, Doreen Moorby, murdered in Gormley, on.
Tan- colored sedan, another sighting of tan-colored car, it's on here somewhere.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 12, 2010, 07:52:57 PM
art-hu; I cannot get that link to work for me :-\ ;D
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: art-hu on July 12, 2010, 10:47:40 PM
I can only get this to work , by typing in search bar,
http://www.f.b.i.gov/wanted.htm
It's the first one, and go to Kidnapping and Missing Persons Investigations
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Sleuth on July 13, 2010, 01:07:47 AM
This man is a POI in the Johnny Gosh case.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: art-hu on July 13, 2010, 08:18:09 AM
Sleuth, couldn't find anything on Johnny Gosh case, could you let us know where.??? Thanks.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 13, 2010, 10:56:26 AM
good information on Johnny Gosh case here.  I couldn't find it on FBI either.  However, I'm not use to the FBI site.
http://www.justiceforjohnnygosch.com/EVIDENCE.php
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: art-hu on July 23, 2010, 09:58:46 PM
Micheala Joy Garecht-9 yrs. old. female

Missing Nov. 19 1988
Hayward California
description of this guy seems similar,
6' 180lbs. dirty blond shoulder lenght hair- pimpled face
older model sedan, gold or tan.
ck. out,   www.f.b.i.gov/wanted

Also in 1970, Doreen Moorby, murdered in Gormley, on.
Tan- colored sedan, another sighting of tan-colored car, it's on here somewhere.

Found it in- Unsolved murders in Ontario Reply #2
Suspect in tan colored sedan x 2
Gormley is close to Aurora, Richmond Hill, Queensville etc.
I can't find anything on Doreen Moorby, maybe someone can find a place for her on this site.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Annastaisha on August 25, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
As i was reading and trying to get a feel of what happened that night, something is bothering me, am not sure if I just missed something though. So, she goes to a store and asks the clerk for help with phoning her mom right... clerk doesnt know the number and sends her outside - she by herself, phones information and gets the number... does that mean the operator would've connected her directly? Would she have to pay for that call? Or did she have to hang up and dial the call herself?  I was only 5 in 1983 and have no clue how payphones worked then.
And, does anyone know how old the clerk was? If the clerk was a teenager, probably wouldnt have thought the way that a grown up or a parent would think about safety on that. I know, that I would have had the child sit behind the counter and stay there until someone, like her parents or the police came but I am also a parent (even as a teenager i would have common sense and it was bad weather), raising a young child in a completely different world it seems.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on August 27, 2010, 12:45:53 PM
I too found this somewhat suspect. I believe others did back at the time of her disappearance but nothing seemed to come of it. Made me wonder if the person seen at the phone booth with Joanne was there in the store at the time and if he was maybe even there to visit this girl/woman? There doesn't seem to be much information about her. Pretty brazen act to speak with Joanne's parents on the phone and then abduct her right afterwards from such a public and visible location.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on August 27, 2010, 01:09:58 PM
Quote
So, she goes to a store and asks the clerk for help with phoning her mom right... clerk doesn't know the number and sends her outside - she by herself, phones information and gets the number... does that mean the operator would've connected her directly? Would she have to pay for that call? Or did she have to hang up and dial the call herself?  I was only 5 in 1983 and have no clue how payphones worked then.
Annastaish; I don't think anybody could get pass that, and no, you didn't miss anything.  You are right; even a teenager with half a brain, wouldn't turn a child out alone in the rain. 

Of course when you work at a fast-pace corner store, minimum wage, and probably the only clerk - you get so many teens coming in for ??cents worth of candy, use the washroom, Can I use the phone?! - I worked in a situation just like that back then, and believe me, I was new at it, and the only thing I could do was keep waiting on the customers - ring their stuff through - and everybody else and everything else, I had to say "I'm sorry, I haven't got time, I can't help you right now."  It was a terrible job.... still is at these convenience stores; and they turn over so many employees (due to overworked and minimum wage/ say nothing of danger of robbery) it seems every clerk is inexperienced and/or rushed off their feet.

So, to me, it seems this person could have been "right there" and witnessed the child's problem - either inside the store, or outside at a phone.  It is one of those situations of a criminal knowing the best way to pull off a crime is out in the open, in plain sight.  Imo, this is definitely another case that should go all the way back to square one.  Although anybody around at the time, probably wouldn't remember the situation because of the heavy rain and the typical busy convenience-store situation, but I'll bet that anyone who is still around from that night, would remember the little girl alone in the dark, in the rain - probably the "only child in and around the store at the time".  I would also bet, with a little patience and/or hypnosis, the same person/s could "crack this case".
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Annastaisha on August 27, 2010, 05:08:58 PM
Look at the odds of that situation... a predator just happens to be at a local store when a young child gets locked out and turned away from the person she asked for help (probably by her parents, I teach my child if he gets lost to find a store employee or a grandma or a mom with small kids to help).
I wonder if this was his first abduction? Or one of many and just got lucky that night? Maybe he took her to teach the parents a lesson and some accident happened - she was screaming, he hit her too hard...
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on August 27, 2010, 06:04:41 PM
Yes, Joanne couldn't have walked into a worse set of circumstances. She is locked out and does just what she should and asks a store employee for help. That didn't pan out. Then she encounters someone who pretends to be helping her and things go from bad to worse.

The odds, well it sure doesn't happen every day thank God but where ever a predator lurks, they hunt and watch for situations to exploit. Whoever enters the scene is in immediate danger and it only takes one wrong move to escalate the odds considerably from chance coincidence to your it!

I believe if it hadn't been Joanne there and then, it was going to be some other little girl sometime somewhere else. Abducting and murdering kids is at the far extreme end of criminal behaviour, it's sick, it's insane. There aren't that many of those type walking around out there and I believe anyone who can do one is liable to do it again.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: jobo on August 27, 2010, 07:57:25 PM
Sorry, I am going back a page, here, but I'm catching up.   Art-hu mentions about the car, and the other crime I think of with that car description is Cindy Halliday's murder...April20/1992...Age 17..Murdered-Waverly (Barrie Ontario area)..the car description is very similar, but the crimes are almost 10 years apart. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on August 27, 2010, 11:13:55 PM
Actually there was another abduction and murder a little closer with a fairly similar vehicle description.
Kelly Cook 1981.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.0.html)

Quote
He was driving a medium or full-size, light-coloured North American car.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 27, 2010, 12:27:14 PM
I was a bit of a car guy back in those years. One of the things we were doing was buying up certain models of camaro's and firebirds with the landeau roof option, removing it and painting the top. The performance guys didn't go for the landeau look and paid a premium for the other. One of the places we had work done would also install landeau roofs on anything you wanted. Whether a child killer would change the look of a car instead of getting rid of it doesn't seem that likely but it is possible. The landeau was a replaceable accessory option. Paint is also an easy disguise.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on October 31, 2010, 07:35:41 PM
I've posted aged progressed pictures of Joanne below.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 01:57:01 PM
The location of where the pond was, the one quite close to the store shouldn't be impossible to discover. Within that pond, a pryramid shape of rocks should be able to be found. Within that pile is where T. Arnold said Joanne was left. Down in the center in a hollow column left behind from the remains of a rotted pole erected and supported by that rock column many years earlier.

It shouldn't be that difficult to find, it is a specific ten foot ar so area and shouldn't be that difficult to investigate. I am not in or from that area and I have no more idea's on how to accomplish this..

Nightly I am haunted by the vision of Joanne laying in that rock tomb all alone waiting to be found. I see a cross section of what looks like a volcano with the top sealed and her inside, it bothers me. Arnold said he kicked the rocks into the center on top of her from all around the perimiter. No searcher could have known and was unlikely to have dug through all that as it was all out of sight underwater. If this structure had been found above on dry land, it would likely have been checked.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 03:00:41 PM
New information showing up on the Kelly Cook discussion thread describes her killer as having curly hair.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg56826#msg56826 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg56826#msg56826)

The suspect description here is of a person with messy wavy haired. Like you'd get from curlyhair that can't be tamed.
Quote
A composite picture of the man shows a Caucasian male, 20-23 years old at the time, just over six feet tall. He had an average build with hair that came over his ears in a messy or wavy style. He had a moustache and was wearing a 1980s-style waist-length black leather jacket at the time.

information from the Barb Stoppel case shows a time progression over which Arnold grew his hair longer following Barb's murder.

Is this the resultant description of the same person?
The Arnold story and links to all this were posted under this heading-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on February 19, 2011, 03:08:03 PM
D1  This is startling new information for this thread!  Hoping this has been reported to police.  Are you saying they have not checked this out? 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 03:16:06 PM
I called it into crime stoppers but I don't think anything was ever done with it. I don't know where else or who else to sent it to. The information was mostly all here before but scattered around in various posts. It was Des that mentioned that they have ground penetrating radar now that may be able to locate that structure even if it had been buried over the years.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on February 19, 2011, 03:19:46 PM
This case being as old as it is, would probably require a family member to intercede and make requests.  I thought there was family on here at one time?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 19, 2011, 03:25:54 PM
No matter how many times I come back to this thread, I am always overwhelmed with the same thought:  I feel this child ended up in Sleep Hollow.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 03:36:03 PM
Excuse me for not recalling but where is sleep hollow and where did that information come from?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 19, 2011, 03:45:57 PM
D; she went missing just before Veddes (sp) crossing;  any creep imo, would consider himself "home free" once he passed there.  Then there's no end to how many places he can hide, hang out, kill and disappear.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=chilliwack,British+Columbia,+Vedder+Crossing&aq=&sll=49.12396,-121.959021&sspn=0.089197,0.33474&gl=ca&g=chilliwack,British+Columbia,+Vedder+Crossing&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sardis+-+Vedder,+Chilliwack,+Fraser+Valley+Regional+District,+British+Columbia&ll=49.097275,-121.963898&spn=0.001394,0.00523&t=f&z=18&ecpose=49.09727536,-121.96389756,283.83,-0.005,0,0
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on February 19, 2011, 04:05:37 PM
Lost I see what you mean.  I went for a walk  in google earth.  Many places to check out, but a smaller body of water at the end of sleepy hollow road would be of interest.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 19, 2011, 05:13:40 PM


Today marks the 28th anniversary of Joanne's disappearance. We have not forgotten her.
I still hold out the hope that this case can be solved.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
I believe the way Arnold described it was that he asked Joanne where she lived and said he would keep an eye on her on the way home. He told me that he saw a piece of vacant bush and went ahead of her, pulled over and took her into the trees right from there. He found a path and followed it and that led him right to the pond. He said it looked like kids were using it to go play down there. Turtles come to mind.. The path entrance was very close between the store and to where Joanne was walking on the way home.

I forgot this was that day.. thnx Deb

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 20, 2011, 11:28:34 PM
Lost posted this map some time ago. I am re-posting. If the area is at all the same as shown on this map, there is still a chance. Does anyone reading this live out that way? Is that field and the trees behind the school still there? Or is this totally developed now?
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=33&msid=108404882215241430627.0004801d8c56a9751d6fa&abauth=4bc1132dtm7v1wF0iOYVD4PG2bZiV9HuA7U (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=33&msid=108404882215241430627.0004801d8c56a9751d6fa&abauth=4bc1132dtm7v1wF0iOYVD4PG2bZiV9HuA7U)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 21, 2011, 01:20:38 AM
Of note, Terry Arnold moved to this same area after leaving Winnipeg. The investigation of Roberta Ferguson's murder disclosed that T. Arnold was living either at the "sleepy hollow trailer court" or the Chilliwack rv park at the time.
Coincidence?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 21, 2011, 03:30:57 AM
You don't have to work hard to convince me D.  I find it hard to believe he hasn't been singled out for a dozen more murders than he's known for.

I still think he could have killed Kelly Cook.... and also Joanne.  For anybody who thinks D1 and I zero in on Arnold quite often, it's because we have learned a lot about this animal in the past 3 yrs. (for me - maybe longer for D1)  It's amazing where he "fits right in there" for murder and other heinours crimes.
read what the courts and press have to say about Arnold...

http://www.mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 21, 2011, 01:07:17 PM
I know its pretty tough to take the word of T. Arnold for anything but in all of this time nothing new has come up since and Joanne is still the only victim Arnold spoke of that has not been found. His description of the events was pretty specific, between the store and Joanne's house was the entry trail to the pond. An old telephone or power pole had been supported by a rock column but had long since rotted out leaving a hollow within the rock pile. If Arnold was telling the truth, there Joanne waits.. I pray this will be the year that someone looks at this seriously and initiates the effort to find her. It may not be that hard, She could even be within a few hundred yards of the store.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on February 21, 2011, 01:22:56 PM

It seems to me that it is bordering on the irresponsible side to not at least look in the area that's been described as the area Joanne was left in.

Quote
The investigation of Roberta Ferguson's murder disclosed that T. Arnold was living either at the "sleepy hollow trailer court" or the Chilliwack rv park at the time.

We have someone who talked about having committed the crime in fairly good detail. He had opportunity as he lived in the area at the time.

We have a little girl who has been missing for 28 years. What is there to lose by looking?

We owe it to Joanne.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on February 22, 2011, 07:33:24 PM
I live in Chilliwack in the area she went missing... Everything here has developed significantly since 1983.  All the old base homes have been torn down and rebuilt... There are alot of lakes in the area... I am thinking a pond could have been covered up
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 22, 2011, 10:11:45 PM
It may have been but the location may still be able to be found. I don't know how but maybe someone will recall a pond very close to that store location. Maybe even right behind it? Apparently there was a trail that was being used possibly by kids that led right to it. Were they base houses that used to be back behind  the store there?

Do you think the area is way different than it was on this map?
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=33&msid=108404882215241430627.0004801d8c56a9751d6fa&abauth=4bc1132dtm7v1wF0iOYVD4PG2bZiV9HuA7U (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=33&msid=108404882215241430627.0004801d8c56a9751d6fa&abauth=4bc1132dtm7v1wF0iOYVD4PG2bZiV9HuA7U)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 22, 2011, 11:06:54 PM
D1; that map link is not working?.... says "updated yesterday"..... sheeeeech!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 23, 2011, 12:15:39 AM
MSprenkles, that is wonderful!.... I kid you not!  you are the first person on this thread, thus far, in the right area ... and with the right mindset.  bless you.  If you will just be patient, I'm sure D1 will get to you. 

I'd expect he would be jumping up and down right now.  He must be exhausted from the fact that it is next to impossible to get a volunteer in the right place and at the right time.  I expect you may have to wait for the weather to change, thaw and all that.  .... that might give you some time to check out where the old pole line use to be. 

Where I came from, I remember every pole line that existed in the community in my lifetime, and have pictures of previous to that (from local archives)... even though the place has grown and changed, I still know pretty much where everything was.  So if you can discretely check it out with people over fifty, you might have a better idea where to look when D1 gives you a "spot" as he believes it to be.  ...since the area was vacant at the time, I suspect it was an old rotted pole from a previous line.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 23, 2011, 09:04:49 AM
Excellent! For some reason the map that has been working for so long just quit since posting the link again. I'll work on that or at least get one of the store location.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 23, 2011, 09:36:11 AM
For some reason, having trouble getting any of th map functions to work like they used to for that spot. Best I can do for now is to have you paste this address
5933 Vedder Road, Chilliwack, BC into the space on google maps link below. This is Lordco's address, the store would have been up on the corner where it appears to be a vacant lot now.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?ct=reset (http://maps.google.ca/maps?ct=reset)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 23, 2011, 06:49:48 PM
MSprenkels; if i were going to ask questions around there, I'd start with the Legion. ... maybe get some names of who hung around the Legion then.  Once you get some names and phone numbers or whatever, then you might find out what "regulars" were at the Legion that night.  Nobody likes to talk or knows much more than those who guzzle bear at the local bars or pubs..... and while stores and venus change all the time, Legions and such seem to remain in the same spot.

D1.... google maps doesn't seem to be working right for that area at all.  I had every venu in that region mapped out by someone... now it seems to be gone.  I did use the "streetview" last night and wondered if Shoppers Drug Mart might be where the old store was.  I also notice they own a big empty lot close by.  I also noticed Joanne's street only has sidewalk on one side... wonder if there was a sidewalk back then ... if it's the same?  ...that might indicate what side of the road the small clearing was.  I think it could be that other piece shown on the map as owned by Shoppers.

MSprenkels, keep in mind that "pond" might not have been much more than a boggy piece of back lot, where water stayed pooled in a spot not more than maybe a room size .... thus... the pole rotted perhaps "prematurely".  If that is the case, that spot may still be in line with the newer poles that would remain there.    Also keep in mind that it had to be a pretty large pole to leave such an opening.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 23, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
MS.... how sure are you about the "said pond area" being dug up?    :-\   I guess you could pretty much decide if you were convinced by those you spoke with .... I'm thinking did they offer anything concrete about such ... like when by whom? or when?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 23, 2011, 09:45:01 PM
Someone messaged me to ask what my interest is in this case;  I want to post the reply I sent them, here as well.  In fact, if I can shorten it a little, I will try attaching it to my profile.... then people won't wonder who I am or why I'm interested in so many cases.  I know it has no bearing on the case, but it explains others interest in this and most, or all cases.

Quote
MS, I came to this site a few years back; my interest was trying to make more noise than I'd already made on injusticebusters and every chat site I could, about my nephew's murder.  For twenty years, my family have been fighting for justice, not only on our own case, but helping dozens of others who've suffered similar, after Clayton. 

We didn't choose this; it just came to us.  I've seen so much corruption in my life that I have no faith in government and even less in police.  I do recognize the good members of government that are around (inspite of their lack of identifying the fact that one life lost through government interference with police corruption, is just as serious as a whole country's lives lost.  Corruption is like war, as far as I'm concerned; and I will fight it until I die (which I'm certain some around this area and across the country, would wish would be tomorrow).  Once you find your way around this site (some don't because they are only interested in a case that affects them personally)

.... you'll find the regulars here are aware of a staggering amount of crime and corruption that we've learned of the hard way.  D1 is an example... as are many others.  If you go to my nephew's thread (Clayton Miller, Nova Scotia cases) and just go far enough in the thread to view his morgue pictures, you'll see he died, and rigor set in, in the position of a "police hold"... you'll notice the handcuff marks on his wrists.  That my friend is how I got into working on these cases until exhaustion.... as well as other regulars here.  Good luck in your personal pursuit.

lostlinganer
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 24, 2011, 12:12:49 PM
Interesting finds.
Quote
I asked her about the pond behind the store, it is no longer there but she said it was dug up and nothing was found.

Doe's she recall where exactly the pond was located? Who dug up the pond and when? Was this part of the official police search?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 24, 2011, 02:54:20 PM
There may have been more than one pond in the area also. And it has to be the one which had the column of rocks in the middle.

The statement it was dug up and nothing was found, doesn't quite give enough detail. Can you tell us more?

For some reason the google map function for this area has come back to life after blipping out for the last couple of days.
LInk to map showing the area between the store and Joanne's home (red pointer).
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=5800+vedder+road+chilliwack&aq=&sll=49.105624,-121.957555&sspn=0.011828,0.02665&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5800+Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+Fraser+Valley+Regional+District,+British+Columbia+V2R+3N4&ll=49.108096,-121.959314&spn=0.011828,0.02665&z=15 (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=5800+vedder+road+chilliwack&aq=&sll=49.105624,-121.957555&sspn=0.011828,0.02665&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5800+Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+Fraser+Valley+Regional+District,+British+Columbia+V2R+3N4&ll=49.108096,-121.959314&spn=0.011828,0.02665&z=15)

From this map it appears that Joanne lived on the same side of the street as the store did back then so did not have to cross any streets coming or going. What is that located directly behind shoppers? A private residence or a business. There are still remnants of older trees at the back of shoppers and on that neighboring property.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on February 24, 2011, 06:05:52 PM
Does anyone think that there is any hope of finding Joanne alive.  People have gone missing for years and are found, having been kept somewhere against their will.  I would definately check out that weird house MSprendels, sound like something is not right there.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on February 25, 2011, 12:43:59 AM
re:
Quote
There was a pond behind the penny pincher and was a hang out for teens with a trail.

That sounds very much like what was described. I have heard from people involved in the search that they did check the ponds very good but I never heard and doubt they would have removed an entire rock pile from under the water. I hope this location will still be able to be found and hopefully has just been filled in and not built upon.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 01, 2011, 04:10:15 PM
The old map we used to have on here, showed the penny pincher near where the vacant lot is on the corner of vedder and watson and the new map still shows what appears to be a vacant unpaved area behind there. If the old hydro or telephone pole locations can be found along with the location of the pond, there is still a chance that exact 10 sq. foot or so area could be located somewhere that isn't that difficult to access.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 01, 2011, 07:40:52 PM
D and Spenkles; I don't have your email/s.

Picture Jimmy George at 16 or so..... probably looked early 20's???  I suspect he lived just up the road at the reserve.... within yards of the corner.

he's the guy on the right.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 01, 2011, 11:12:01 PM
Does anyone know whether Joanne's family still lives around that area?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 02, 2011, 12:48:24 PM
Ok, that is starting to look like what was on our original map that quit working last week.

When I google in on street view, it looks like a new cibc bank being built behind where the store was inbetween lordco. Is that correct? Is the bank building completed?
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=td+bank+vedder+road+chilliwack&aq=&sll=49.112185,-121.957727&sspn=0.000671,0.002543&ie=UTF8&hq=td+bank&hnear=Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+British+Columbia&ll=49.110326,-121.958137&spn=0,0.002543&z=19&layer=c&cbll=49.11038,-121.958124&panoid=_wMzfnJ5LWxejFO1o4gh-g&cbp=12,285.77,,0,5 (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=td+bank+vedder+road+chilliwack&aq=&sll=49.112185,-121.957727&sspn=0.000671,0.002543&ie=UTF8&hq=td+bank&hnear=Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+British+Columbia&ll=49.110326,-121.958137&spn=0,0.002543&z=19&layer=c&cbll=49.11038,-121.958124&panoid=_wMzfnJ5LWxejFO1o4gh-g&cbp=12,285.77,,0,5)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 02, 2011, 02:27:39 PM
How old could this google map be? I just searched the area last week and posted the google link. When was the cibc bank completed?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 02, 2011, 04:42:14 PM
Well it would still be good to know where that exact spot in the pond was located originally. It appears there are still some small open areas between the new buildings and out back but most of it has been built over. Would also like to confirm though that this was the pond with the rock column for an old telephone or hydro pole.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 05, 2011, 03:28:19 PM
At the library now. Gettring tones of info. Anyother attemped kidnapping happened. A similare man the next day

Very interesting information about the attempted kidnapping, MSprenkels. I've not heard about that before.

Are there many details? Anything about the MO or physical description?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 06, 2011, 08:56:09 PM
Can you copy and post some of those articles MSP? Very interesting that so many people were there when it went down. Also very interesting that only half came forward. Our discussion on why people don't come forward is quite relevant to this. With an unsolved crime how many of us would want to place ourselves right there at the abduction site if we felt we had nothing new to add? They will be looking for a suspect and everyone would be checked out pretty good.

I bet there is some guilt and second thought with some of those people who never came forward in later years. Perhaps if they were shown a photo of a possible suspect, say one who had made a confession, it may help shake the last barriers out of the way?

With that many people right there at the store, I believe there are better and more detailed descriptions of the suspect to be found. Including, which way did Joanne leave from the phone booth? No one saw her leave? Bull!  Arnold said he told her to walk towqrds home and followed her. IMO this fits..very brazen act with that many people aound.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 15, 2011, 08:50:45 PM
Sprenkels... 10 days since you've been on here.  I pray to God you are alright.   :-\
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 16, 2011, 11:45:45 PM
...can't begin to tell you how good it is to see you back. ;)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 18, 2011, 07:09:35 AM
Good to hear someone in that area is still checking things out. Any hope of finding old hydro or telephone right of ways from city records or old archives? Even finding one old pole location in the vicinity could identify the route, direction and spacing of the other poles and whether those exact spots have been built upon or not.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on March 18, 2011, 09:29:03 AM
MSprenkels - Any more information about the creepy house?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 19, 2011, 01:36:00 PM
I commend your efforts MSP and do believe the info is still out there somewhere. Obviously the best source would be the Police file on Joanne's disappearance. There would be lots of photos of the immediate area between the store and home. I would bet there are photos of the close by ponds and the search results. How is that request to view going?

Otherwise, city hall documents, the subdivision files of the particular properties can be obtained through a freedom of Info request if need be. They are historic and contain many references to easements and rightaways in some cases. Land titles holds information and there are ways to access that but there are charges associated if you have to go that route. Hydro and bc tel have a records department too but you almost need a personal contact to get through the red tape. The Police would know, if they don't, they should.. Joanne is still waiting for them to show up.....

Maybe its time for a new investigator to ride in on a new horse?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2011, 05:14:23 AM
...just stumbled upon this!  strange that I found this because this same site does not have Joanne's abduction on it.  ????? something definitely fishy about that.  I also took notice that Pederson is a "big name" in the archives!

anyway; I don't recall this other abduction brought up here.  Perhaps it was, and I don't recall.  I wonder if this girl was found.  Sprenk; this is one thing you could call RCMP and get an answer to... if not, the local news.

http://chilliwack.pastperfect-online.com/33335cgi/mweb.exe?request=keyword;keyword=missing chilliwack girl;dtype=d

Quote
June 19 1963, Chilliwack Progress Press Photograph: ”RCMP have asked for the co-operation of the public in tracing 12 year old Alice Mathers who went missing from the Mission area approximately 9:30 pm, June 9 1963. She is about 5 feet tall, 85 lbs, slim with blond hair. She was wearing a handknitted bright green, shaggy wool sweater with large white buttons over a red bathing suit with white diagonal stripes across the body. She had a green overshirt and white stretchy hairband. Anyone who has seen this girl is asked to contact their nearest RCMP office.”




modifying to say I spent hours, but finally found only one article about the "Mathers" girl.  It was in the last paragraph of another article.  Alice Mather's body was found on June 27, 18 days after she went missing.
A 24-year old Chilliwack man, John Janzen, pleaded
guilty in police court yesterday to a charge of contributing
to the delinquency of minors and was sentenced
to 15 months in Oakalla prison farm. The offence involved
the mole.sting of two six-year-cld girls.
In passing sentence Magistrate
J. A. Dixon said, "No man, who
commits sucli a vile act against
trusting, innocent little children,
sliou.'d be at large."
Tlie charge followed a complaint
yesterday from a resident
at the pumping station near
.Australian.
The court was told Janzen was
walking along the railroad tracks
when he met the tv/o children
returning from school. He struck
up a conversation with them
about their school work, and then
asked them to accompany him
into the bush to look for strawberries.
Police told the court that it
was in the bush that the offence
took place. It was submitted in
evidence that neither of the
children was harmed.
Magistrate Dixon added, "I
am doing you and the community
a service by committing you to
jail. If this is some kind of sickness
you have, then jail may
help. I have a duty to protect
these cliildren from men like
you."
The court added a recommendation
in passing sentence that
Janzen be subjected to psychiatric
examination.
Mr. Dixon concluded by saying,
"I am sure that the tragic
case at the coast recently began
in just such circumstances as
tills." He was referring to the
tragic death of 12-year-old Alice
Mathers, whose body was found
Tuesday. She had been missing
from her home at Mission since
June 9
http://www.quesnelmuseum.ca/CaribooObserverDocs/1963/19630627_Cariboo%20Observer-1.pdf
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2011, 05:32:27 AM
Sprenkels and D1; you'll find tons in this site if you "dig" in a certain way.  For instance, after you put you "key words" in to search, the results will come up in abundance, depending on the words you choose to us.  So when all the results come up, it is best to choose from "Picture/Photo Results" and or "Record Results" .... that's what I'm doing now.

here is a pic of the school in 1962;  you can actually see where the pole line is .... maybe if you know the distance between stretchs (lines rows), you can get a pretty good idea where the next row would be? .... these 1962 poles look small, so were possibly the age of the "rotted pole" you're looking for (guessing). 

August 29 1962
Description Chilliwack Progress Press Photograph: ”Three-room addition to Watson Road School (on right-hand side of the building) makes it the second-largest elementary school in Chilliwack district. All new schools and additions have been designed by local architect Albert Anderson.”
Title Watson Road School Elementary School
Catalog Number 1999.029.024.077
Image 011\1999029024077.JPG


http://chilliwack.pastperfect-online.com/33335cgi/mweb.exe?request=record;id=F4CAA5E5-7944-4B03-BBCD-737300396746;type=102
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2011, 09:25:40 AM
I couldn't find anything on that Des??? ..... seems it might run in a family?  poor little girl!  those two animals should have been fed to the wolves.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 20, 2011, 03:30:33 PM
Excellent link Lost.. There is what looks like a fairly major powerline in the background of the school photos. Without knowing the orientation of the buildings east /west its tough to know where they would run. There would have to be official easements and records for something like that. Perhaps msp can make more out of the pictures and give us an idea if that is the line that ran past the store area.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2011, 07:05:22 PM
D1; there are quite a lot of old pics on that link.  They are all under different things .... like not quite related to what they show up under (if that makes sense).  It's like, the more you browse in there, the more you find.  It would make a different to somebody familar with the town layout etc.  One thing that struck me odd was the fact that Pederson seemed to be a prominent "old name" in Chilliwack ... old family background!  .... and likewise with the name "Watson".  The place was really built on "a few prominent families" running the place principle ... it seems to me. 

A lot went on the year Joanne went missing.  ... a new minister or whatever came to town during that time period to scout out the feasibility of a church there (on Watson) .... also.  Seems like that street was all about a few families.  There were also pictures of different businesses many years before that.... I think one of those pictures is the Penny Pincher Store under a different name in an earlier time.

BTW the picture of the school (which was already in existence at the time, but had a new section built on I believe) shows the pole line in the background and foreground.... so it crosses the street behind the source of the photo ( back of who snapped the picture).  My guess is the next section of pole line would be a block in either direction.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 20, 2011, 09:33:52 PM
Interesting stuff in all that. Despite 15 plus people in the vicinity, Joanne attracting attention by crying at the counter, a man seen with her and speaking for her at the phone booth, parents showing up 15 or so minutes later, the final Police comments were: 

Quote
All the leads end up at the penny pinchers and we are not able to get one step beyond that" Ayres remarked.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 21, 2011, 06:50:39 AM
Sprenk, to be perfectly honest, it's always played on my mind the length of time it took her mother to reach her.  I don't recall if anyone ever made that run themselves to see how long it would take.  Grant it, if you did try it, you would have to consider what traffic lights were there in 1983 as opposed to now, and/or if a local person like Kelly's mom would know a shortcut.   It also bothers me who all may have taken in the conversation at the Legion end.

The reason this bothers me is the fact that I was present at a function one night last summer; a mother sitting within a few feet of me, received a phone call from her daughter on her cell phone.  The daughter apparently told her there were a few girls going to beat her.  The mother was cursing and swearing, "I kill them.. I'll be right there!".... I kid you not Sprenk, that woman hung up her cell, continued on with her drink in front of her for a good 15 minutes before the daughter phoned back in a panic to come get her.  You would not believe how close I went to asking this woman and her boyfriend 10 minutes earlier, where the girl was.... so that I could rush there myself and save her.  Do you get what I'm saying here.... Lord only knows who else listened to Joanne's mother and stepfather during that conversation... and whether they rushed out, or stopped to finish their drinks.  No disrespect whatsoever meant here!  It's just that I witnessed the exact same scenario last summer, and all I could think of was Joanne Pederson.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 21, 2011, 11:45:00 AM
I find this somewhat suspect, the handling of the abduction was strangely inadequate right from the start.
Quote
An old news paper said a couple weeks after she went missing the attitude changed from "not there problem" to giving what info they had.... And that they had enough tips to fill a room!!!!! 
Going thru the old papers it seems as though a couple weeks after she went missing the "temporarily" gave up the search for her.  But I went thru a couple monthes after that with no mention of her?! 
 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 23, 2011, 08:35:24 PM
I recall something wayyyyy back at the early development of this thread -  there had been mention of an odd type man who lived near Joanne's grandmother far out in the rural area at the time.  I've alluded back to that more than once.  Now I am somewhat shocked at reading this particular piece sprenk;  I would wager this odd neighbor from that time, did have the grandmother's phone number for some reason.... or else whoever abducted Joanne forced her to give him the number.  Tomorrow, I am going to start at the beginning and find where we had discussed this.

Quote
A man contacted Joannes grandmother 2 weeks after she went missing!!!!! Joannes grandmother had an unlisted number so whoever called had to have known the number..... See the link!!!

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 12:23:56 AM
I have heard all of this before, it was spoken of and discussed in several circles, not just on here. This and several other points like the Rider road guy served to sidetrack this thread before. While that discussion headed off into the hills, building was going on and parking lots were being paved over in the area Joanne may be buried. No one came up with a location for the spot where the pond was back then and no one has quite come up with it yet. I see msp that you are heading off that same way yourself now.

A poster who went by nc107 was responsible for a lot of what went on before  and had developed a considerable following. Sleuth had become another of nc107 followers and continued to post and discount anything Arnold long after nc pulled all her posts. The thread reads badly after that.

Quote
I have never seen that article posted anywhere else and I went thru Chilliwacks newspaper at the time and it was never mentioned!  If this was true it would lead me to believe that T. Arnold was not responsible

There fore the confession would not be true either right? So no sense persuing what was said any further right?

Hey, maybe Joanne gave that number to the guy in the phone booth as a last resort in case all else had failed? or, or , or,

Did you know Terry Arnold could perfectly mimic the crying of a little girl?

Did you know the suspect used a phone booth in Kelly Cook's murder to place a call and scream into the phone in that murder too? Arnold confessed to that also.

Arnold treated us all as suckers and was very effective, no one knows the half of it!

I don't care where and what anyone else wants to look at in this case but I still want to find that two square foot area where the rotted pole sat in a pond before I give up on this.   Anyone else in Chiliwack know the exact location of the pond behind the old store in relation to what is there now?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 11:09:13 AM
I'm as relaxed as I am going to get. I know that in the past I was looking at maps of the area that when updated showed new buildings and parking lots seemingly being constructed right over the general area I had identified to me. sorry, I have trouble with that. This can be debated till the cows come home but I just want to cut to the chase, find that spot, and determine what if anything can be done now before there are any more changes to the area
.
thnz I do appreciate the effort and I know everyone else has to keep an open mind. That doesn't include me though until Arnolds confession and the burial location is checked out. Thats my singular mission here, no other.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 11:32:27 AM
I reread back and noted the additions.

That 2008 letter was a very strange an unusual occurance. Supposedly the same guy who never contacted Police decides years later to send a letter but still won't come forward or identify himself despite claiming his innocence. As noted, this would apparently rule out T. Arnold as he was supposedly dead by then.

After his apparent suicide, a group from Vancouver island said that T. Arnold had been searching for an editor to help with a book he had written. He described it to those people as a true crime book that would be explosive when published. This was after he had been charged and convicted of one murder and the crown stepped in to stay the charges on flimsy and suspicious grounds resulting in his release. Upon his death the Police siezed his computer upon which he had written the story. Whatever he had said, the Police had it all prior to 2008.  What resulted from that isn't known.

Strange things happen in all cases involving T. Arnold, there are no standard explanations. Hence the objective to just check that spot and avoid having to deal with anything else. Its a nightmare and quackmire that one can get stuck dealing with forever as in the case of Kelly Cook. She was found, Joanne still waits.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 03:25:21 PM
I have been told and believe that Arnold did have either a relative or an associate who lived in that area and that is what drew him there. Finding that connection could prove quite helpful. If a similar car should surface in association to whomever that may be, that could be another step. There may be some connection to that house you speak of, I just don't know of any.

An earlier point about whether there was an odour around the pond, I'm not sure how that works if a body is completely submerged under water. The way he described it was he kicked the rocks into the opening from all around the sides till nothing was visible above water. I don't think there would be many spots right around the store that would match that critereia. Not likely anyone knew there was a rotted pole creating an opening in the rock pile in that pond though as Arnold said when he climbed up on the top he fell through and damn near broke his leg. He didn't see it and didn't know it was there. From there on he spoke of it as if it was an act of god to show him that spot at that time, the perfect spot to hide Joanne right under everyone's nose and he claims he did just that.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on March 24, 2011, 03:54:50 PM
MSprenkels - The house on the corner that you speak of is that the creepy white one that you mentioned earlier?  I looked at it on Google Maps and it certainly looked creepy to me.  Gave me a weird feeling that something was not right about it.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on March 24, 2011, 04:29:13 PM
Didn't you say in an earlier post that there was rumour that Joanne could still be there?  Maybe they don't want to sell in case there is evidence down there.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 24, 2011, 04:36:38 PM

Is this place abandoned....and still has a phone?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 24, 2011, 04:45:56 PM
Well, that is very strange. I could see them keeping the electricity on if that was the source of heat. I'm not sure if it gets cold enough to freeze water pipes in the winter, in Chilliwack. I would imagine it could.

I would not see the reason for keeping the phone hooked up though....especially if the owner has another residence in Chilliwack now. Do you know where the owner lives?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on March 24, 2011, 04:51:04 PM
What is it registered to in the phone book?  Maybe there is a connection to Arnold.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 24, 2011, 05:23:43 PM
Telegraph poles were of 42" circumference (13-3/8" diametre) at ground level, and were let approximately 6'6" into the ground. Joanne was 4'6" tall, and weighed 85 lbs. Unless the pole was completely removed, rather than rotten and partially broken away under ground level, as claimed, Joanne would not have fit into the opening.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on March 24, 2011, 05:25:35 PM
I would have to read this thread.  Could it be this one   http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.msg126#msg126
Roberta Marie FERGUSON
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 06:05:03 PM
Joanne is the only one that fits what Arnold said about this particular set of circumstances. I'm sure it is her he spoke of, will write out the details.

re:
Quote
Telegraph poles were of 42" diametre at ground level, and were let approximately 6'6" into the ground. Joanne was 4'6" tall, and weighed 85 lbs. Unless the pole was completely removed, rather than rotten and partially broken away under ground level, as claimed, Joanne would not have fit into the opening.

The pole was not set in the ground but rather supported by a rock plle. Arnold said it just crumbled like sawdust when stepped on. Maybe it predates the usual standard pole configuratiion? Maybe he stomped her into fitting?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
yep, Arnold said he got turned on by the close confines of a phone booth, sometimes even going in just after a woman had left. Inside the booth with the girl was the one of the points mentioned. Maybe one of the killers identifiers.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 24, 2011, 07:23:18 PM
way to go Sprenk.... this should be interesting to see once posted!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 09:16:24 PM
It appears this is what some would like to see anyways!
Quote
That would rule him out and prove him a liar and we would be able to move in another direction in this case!

I doubt calling remand will do any good, the article in the impression warrant is pretty clear in that he was only arrested on the 27th of feb/83.






Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 24, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
I just refer to the impression warrant and that collection of news stories about Arnold on mindytran.com .

The area has been well covered in parking lots but I see that old photos or at least the exact location of the pond will have to be found and compared. There is maybe still a chance, (once you get a reply from winnipeg remand)

I'll skip the rest of the details till then.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 12:05:36 AM
No one is coming forward to even admit they knew T. Arnold let alone anyone related or friends. He knew someone here. How do you get to that? Know any cops with access to his file?

There was one car in town that locals said seemed to match the description given. But it was an older respectable person who owned it. Maybe Arnold stole and returned that car and the man's neighbours should have been checked out? Arnold's picture could be shown to him? The car could lead to the neighbourhood where he was staying? But Police files would be needed for most anything along this line..

Still say find that spot mark it and deal with it. Ground penetrating radar or other options even?

 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 25, 2011, 12:38:57 AM
Good work on presenting today's appearance of that spot Sprenk;  I am still suspicious about the spooky house and the land behind it.  Wouldn't it be great if the people in that area decided to clean up this case.  Of course if they didn't care about this precious child back then... to the point of turning the town upside down, guess one can't expect much now.  I think if I was around there, I would be the same.... I couldn't rest until I found that spot... that pole hole.  I walked in one of them once on my families property; darn near broke my leg ...as the hole went down several feet.

I also find it just too strange how quickly the barber shop closed when Joanne passed on. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on April 08, 2011, 10:51:31 AM
Wow!  That has to be more than coincidental.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2011, 10:59:42 AM
Getting closer! Who all did you tell or ask about this place? Did you make inquiries to the Police?

And stay safe!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 08, 2011, 11:13:42 AM
Getting closer! Who all did you tell or ask about this place? Did you make inquiries to the Police?

And stay safe!
The identity and location of the house, photographs and all, was on this website for all to see for over a month.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on April 08, 2011, 11:17:20 AM
that is true Sherlock.   Take care MS
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on April 08, 2011, 11:27:37 AM
Whoa....    Please keep us informed MS, this is too weird.  Stay safe.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on April 08, 2011, 11:43:02 AM
Interesting....  10 cars seems excessive to me. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 08, 2011, 11:45:40 AM
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this situation.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on April 08, 2011, 12:00:59 PM
Why the ambulance, if no one lived there?  I hope our suspicions aren't actual fact.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 08, 2011, 12:06:41 PM
Standard response when there is a fire. Firemen, police, ambulance dispatched. The very heavy presence of police is what I find somewhat surprising.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2011, 12:07:22 PM
Call a reporter and tell them this story so that as much as possible of what is going on will be watched and documented ?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2011, 12:18:34 PM
Are they digging in the bush behind the house? Anyone watching or are all the crowds being kept far back?

I'd call anyway..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on April 08, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
Thanks for the update MS, that would account for the basement light being on all the time, if it were squatters.  Still doesn't make sense why the owners went on paying the electricity bill though.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on April 08, 2011, 03:53:17 PM
If the son owned the trailer park right behind it as MS says, maybe all the electricity was on the same meter(s) and he just paid the bill??
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on April 08, 2011, 04:59:14 PM
You would think if the son was close by he would have noticed squatters.  Especially with there being snow on the ground.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 26, 2011, 02:36:14 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire?

Things are getting a little "fishy" in Chilliwack!

I have tried on several occaisions to bring a specific two square foot piece of land to attention over the last year and almost invariably something happens on this board and now in that same vicinity to distract from that endeavour. I am neither happy nor satisfied with what is taking place and am renewing this call for a full and proper investigation of what is taking place. Reporting to crimestoppers proved useless and futile. The latest events are suspicious and troubling.

This is a summary of the confession I heard including details I have never before said. I am leaving it here for any interested party to investigate themselves or send on to the proper authourities. Anyone living in Chilliwack please forward this to as many people and organizations as possible. Watch that area closely for any signs of construction or escavating in the vicinity of the old Penny pincher store. All is not what it seems!

There was once a car matching the description of the suspect vehicle reported being from this area and seen driving past the Pederson neighborhood on a regular basis after this crime. The Police know who the owner of that car is. He saw and could identify the suspect who later stole his car. Details in story below-
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 26, 2011, 04:54:33 PM
OK D1;  now I'm getting upset.  I know I have trouble hanging on to a lot of details ... ergo ... every time you tell a Terry Arnold story, I just automatically assume that you have included all the details at another time, and I with my "failing memory?" have "lost" such details since then????...
but I swear, if you have ever mentioned before, that Arnold told you he was in the store (standing back) stalking Joanne, until the time was right to make his move, I darn well would remember that.

So D; where does that come from?  If and when Arnold gave you this information, what did you do with it?  Did you call police in Chilliwack?  Did you call any Pedersons in Chilliwack?  I know that if it was me, I would have been in a car, or on a bus to Chilliwack - giving of course, I lived in the same province or at least in the neighboring province.  If you were unable to carry that off alone, I'm sure you could have found a handful of people to share the story with in order to get help to get there and find that poor little angel's body. 

I'm an old woman D.... but definitely, most definitely, if I resided in BC, I would be at that spot before the week is out... shovel in hand!  and nobody and nothing would stop me.  Now what say you to that?  If you are that certain, go get that child out of there; or else you're making this site look like a game of "believe it or not". 
F%&k I'm mad as a hatter right now!!!!!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 12:41:59 AM
Lost- For starters when that discussion took place there were a lot of names and details being bandied about in a very short period of time by an inebriated person. I had no idea he was going to spout off like that and it caught me by surprise. He ran stuff together talking about one person and bouncing back and forth to another assuming we knew and were following who he was speaking of at each juncture. I never put it together that he was talking about Joanne Pederson at the store until I found this site.

Secondly I had no idea whether there was any truth to anything he said at the time. It was bizarre like listening to a nut case and you sort of leave it at that. That was until I learned that he actually was a killer and had actually been named as a suspect in the other cases he spoke of.

And, I still do not know to this day where that pond actually was. I have asked, but I am still not clear where it was located.

I left all of the details here that I recall that fit with Joanne's story.The one part I dwelt on when I questioned him about the girl from the store was where he left her in relation to the store. He was quite specific, same side of the street as the store, very close proximity and with a trail that led right to it. If there was a pond at that location that matches that and if there was once a pole of some kind held up by a stack of rocks, that's the spot he claimed he put her.

I have no idea of how to find that spot or to determine whether there was once a pole there or not. That's why I left this here. If someone knows where that spot was or has any details about it and it can be found again there may still be a chance.

If there is a spot like that, the particulars are specific and unique enough that no one could guess at it or make this part up unless he really was there as far as I am concerned.

I did send a tip in to crimestoppers. Nothing back last I checked.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 27, 2011, 01:54:24 PM
...I just don't know what to say next D!  I'm thinking you and whoever you were with (if you were alone, I'd understand your just "taking it in as best you could" ... or if you were very young at that time.  Whoever else was around, what did they seem to think (aside from this guy being a "nut"?).... I mean how could a few adults sit around in the presence of a nut case who's bragging about killing a child... and not either throw him out? or pile on him? 

I guess things were different in my day;  still are in my world - or should I say "in my way of life".
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 02:13:29 PM
We did get on him in the end. I let him go on a long time before that though, the other guy kept getting up and feeding him beer to keep him going. You don't really know where a conversation like that is going until you are in there a long ways. Arnold was eventually glorifying himself and saying things like "you fuck with the best you die like the rest."

After some time I realized this guy was not joking or just pulling our leg and I put it right on him, saying you are bragging about killing a bunch of young girls, that don't make you much a hero or some tough killer like you are portraying. Things changed abruptly after that to the point something was going to happen. He instead got up and left threatening and menacing saying he had a gun outside  It was me who had stirred things up to that degree, the other fellow had pretty well stayed out of it. This other fellow was the one who had been sitting with Arnold for some time before i even arrived and was in much better with him than I. I told him to go see what Arnold was driving and see if he really had a gun. He did and was able to still talk to him and to get a vehicle description and the type of gun before Arnold left.

Our worlds aren't that much different Lost, we weren't all sitting around enjoying or all comfortable with someone talking like that. His reaction at the end was when it really showed what kind of person he really was. Maybe one would have been a little more careful about poking a stick in the eye of a psycho serial killer when sitting around drinking with him if you knew that before hand. I didn't, but I am still here to recount what he said. Joanne is the only one of the girls he spoke of that has still not been recovered.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 05:20:09 PM
Interesting comparison, imagine no glasses and longer hair. Possible?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 27, 2011, 05:27:14 PM
Yes, if you imagine no glasses, longer and darker hair, darker eyes and much higher cheekbones, then Arnold would bear a superficial resemblance to the sketch. With shorter hair and a moustache, so would Kate Middleton.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
Funny guy, tell that one to Mrs. Pedersen, I"m sure she'd get a real kick outa that too.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 27, 2011, 05:46:58 PM
D1, who is Mrs. Pederson? Joanne's family name was Pedersen. At the least show some respect by spelling her name correctly.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 05:52:34 PM
Ahh spelling 101. thnx I'd hate to have her see that!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2011, 06:19:39 PM
All jokes aside, a composite is made up of many elements it's not an actual photograph and it is just black and white. Breaking down the elements there is similarity to the shape of the eyes, the shape of the lower lip, the jaw line, the arch of the eyebrow, the mustache, the flare of the nostril, and the intensity of the look in the eye.

No its not a perfect match but often when a suspect is finally arrested, they do not match up perfectly with the composites.. Point was Arnold is not ruled out by this alone but obviously it would not be enough to say it was him either. The age does match up with the description of the suspect too.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on April 27, 2011, 06:43:34 PM
...the placement of the features... sharpness of chin, the nose,  ...the only things I see different are a different hair cut, different trim of the moustache, and either a few pounds or a hard drinking year or so between the two photos.  If a person who never met Arnold before and got only a glimpse of him in passing, managed to give a description that turned into the composite (first photo), I'd say they came as close to Arnold as possible.... my recall wouldn't create any better a likeness of Arnold, than that. 

Sherlocke, I've been wanting to ask this question since a while now:  are you related to Terry Arnold in any way? or to any of the police that fudged the evidence pointing toward Arnold on more than one occasion.  I get this impression every time you throw in a comment when Arnold is brought up.

modified to correct spelling errors.... before the "spelling cops" come after me here.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: scotsquine on April 27, 2011, 07:01:49 PM
I can't even imagine having to give a description of someone Who I don't know to someone drawing what I remember.  It cannot be easy, but probably the specialists could work with the information. Of course it isn't going to be an exact likeness.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 05, 2011, 08:49:18 PM
We can all agree to just not post here for now if required. Go to the dispute thread to show cause or discuss if need be.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4235.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4235.0)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on May 05, 2011, 10:05:56 PM
I agree D and Sprenk....
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: 24mindy on May 12, 2011, 10:54:10 PM
checking area out....
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: 24mindy on May 18, 2011, 06:42:46 PM
@ms..yes I am from the area of chilliwack...
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: 24mindy on May 19, 2011, 01:34:49 PM
according to your drawn map MS the phone booth looked like it was across the store having to go thru a intersection.. Is that right????..That old house should be checked into. Easy to sneak in old vacant houses or to call police saying u heard screams from this house. Police would have to knock door down. There are ways to check this house out...
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: 24mindy on May 20, 2011, 11:36:28 PM
I see the house is all boarded up now...Guess that will get torn down in time...
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 06, 2011, 11:50:00 PM
And then there was nothing but silence!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Shann on September 07, 2011, 09:36:52 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/09/06/bc-pedersen-missing.html

Movement now, maybe?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 07, 2011, 01:32:07 PM
hmm, newly published story but didn't that anonymous letter come from back in 1995 or so?

Quote
RCMP in Chilliwack, B.C., say they have received an anonymous letter that includes information related to the disappearance of Jo-Anne Pedersen.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on September 07, 2011, 01:43:31 PM
hmm, newly published story but didn't that anonymous letter come from back in 1995 or so?

Quote
RCMP in Chilliwack, B.C., say they have received an anonymous letter that includes information related to the disappearance of Jo-Anne Pedersen.

I saw this segment on Global Vancouver last night, D1. Wondered why it was being put forth as if this letter had just been received recently, although not sure they actually said when it was received. Many would not know that this is not new information. They must be hoping to generate more tips or hoping again the writer will come forward.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 07, 2011, 01:44:27 PM
D, maybe between Sprenk and us guys on here, we have finally brought some shame or pressure on that force.  One can only hope; but I sure would like to live close to that area.  I'd be in trouble for sure  ...as if I don't get into enough here. :-\
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 07, 2011, 09:39:58 PM
good going Sprenk and D.... I hope your sleuthing and nagging pays off.... I pray for that as well!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 09, 2011, 10:12:32 AM
I made some calls, the Pedersens have been told or led to believe that this is a new letter that has apparently just been received. The contents haven't been disclosed but it was handwritten and apparently dropped off in person to a Police detachment. The Police are requesting the person to come forward and identify himself.

Apparently this person claims to be an eye witness and has details only a witness or the killer would know.

If Joanne is indeed buried down that hole under the new parking lot behind the old store location, she will remain stuck there while the Police divert the quest  and chase this anonymous letter writer from now into the fore seeable future.

I had hoped the Police would not become involved so early and that a private search could have been organized and implimented first, maybe a ground sonar for starters to try and locate the anomaly under which she was reported buried.

Private sources claim there was construction edquipment actively working directly behind the store at the time Joanne went missing.

So nothing to credit me for here Lost, maybe next year if she isn't found and  this latest runs it's course, it might get looked at. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 09, 2011, 10:32:16 AM
Sprenk; do you think you can find out what company or private concern was working behind the store back then?  Maybe they had to acquire a permit?  The older people might remeber what the job was.  D1's suspect may have been staying in the trailer park ... may have gotten himself a bit of "labor work" ... in which case he could clean up after himself next day.  If he used the property for disposal, it may be because he would be handling that part of the work, and felt confident to put her there. ...just a thought!  - but if there was a backhoe or other earth moving equipment, the town's people would have an idea what company or individual was doing the job.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Concerned on September 09, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
THere is video of the handwritten letter on this site:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110907/bc_pedersen_missing_person_110907/20110907/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Handwritten on notebook paper it was the second letter ever received. Written the backside of the paper. Letter dropped off on August 28, 2011.

The first letter came days after her disappearance. (corrected Thanks)


New tip surfaces in historic missing persons case

By: The Canadian Press
Date: Wednesday Sep. 7, 2011 5:42 PM PT
Mounties say they have a new lead in a decades-old case involving the disappearance of a 10-year-old girl.

RCMP in Chilliwack, B.C., say they have received an anonymous letter that includes information related to the disappearance of Jo-Anne Pedersen.

The girl was last seen in the phone booth of a local convenience store on Feb. 19, 1983.

Witnesses reported that a man was in the booth with Pedersen and police believe he was helping the girl, but they've never been able to identify him.

While police aren't saying what was in the letter, they think the author was a witness to the events leading up to Pedersen's disappearance.

Police are asking to speak to that person as soon as possible.

Investigators told CTV News that this isn't the first time they've received an anonymous handwritten letter about Pedersen. The first came just days after the 25th anniversary of her disappearance.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110907/bc_pedersen_missing_person_110907/20110907/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on September 09, 2011, 06:27:53 PM
Quote
The first letter came back in 2008, days after her disappearance.

Thanks for posting this Concerned. I was unaware a second letter had been delivered.

Joanne disappeared in 1983.  ;) 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 09, 2011, 10:24:54 PM
I was looking at that clip C.  I often think about these kind of hand written items and can't help but wonder why the authorities wouldn't at least compare the handwriting to all signed documents submitted to government, for a start - I'm thinking income tax forms, GST etc .... also census forms from Chilliwack area at the time of Joanne's abduction.   I know!  it would mean government scanning and storing such documents way back on that day.  It's highly unlikely such items are on old micro f., but once there's any clue as to whom this could possibly be, there are places the government/police can look for the same handwriting.  Perhaps tracking down the author of the letter is the only way to break the case.  What most people are wondering is if it is the same author as the previous letter in /08.

I hope the letter is publicized openly.  Many of us can identify with some of our family, friends and others just by seeing their hand writing.... and this person's handwriting is very distinct.  It's a style that one would remember easily if it was someone they were with a long time ... I especially noticed how they made the letter "I.... and also f".
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 09, 2011, 11:18:50 PM
The recent letter writer wishes to remain anonymous just like the 2008 writer. I assume it is the same person writing both. Little was shown of the letter but it appears he wishes to give info and says not sure if this is helpful.

from the news article.

Quote
While police aren't saying what was in the letter, they think the author was a witness to the events leading up to Pedersen's disappearance.

This is where his and the other witness stories converge with the story told by Terry Arnold when he admitted to the crime. Arnold claimed that he left the parking lot without Joanne in the car so anyone watching would assume he was just trying to be helpful and then went their seperate ways.

Quote
Witnesses reported that a man was in the booth with Pedersen and police believe he was helping the girl, but they've never been able to identify him.

If you are reading here anonymous, have a look at these pictures, from a later time but recognizable features.. If you believe this could be the guy, he has admitted to it and disclosed where he placed her body so you are off the hook if that is your concern. I'd contact the Pedersen family and or media/lawyer etc... with the info first before going to the Police though.  I think it was a good idea to stay anon too by the way but the time has come, conscience weighs over time and you could be most helpful.

see photos-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3056.msg59670#msg59670 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3056.msg59670#msg59670)

Call crimestoppers, right...just don't mention Terry Arnold !
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 10:33:53 AM
For the RCMP to say she may be alive somewhere, doesn't auger well for any investigation into Arnold's reported burial site location. Any anonymous letter will apparently suffice to thwart that?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 11:36:19 AM
As said many times, Arnold gave specifics as to the burial location, a pond behind the store, an old pile of rocks where a rotted out pole was. The pond has been confirmed by the school principle etc... A former military member has confirmed that those rock piles were used to support poles a long time ago and that they had even been used to service the military base. The base was directly in line down from the store.

re:
Quote
It needs to be investigated regardless of whether it is sincere or not because if its not real someone should face a consequence.

How long will this take? Should this justify diregarding everything else in the meantime? The search is on for an anonymous letter writer instead of Joanne.
Same sort of thing happens everytime in regard to any case in which Arnold is mentioned. Not impressed.

Would like to know the contents of that letter. Does someone have an agenda and motive for writing that other that what it appears?

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 12:35:01 PM
So does crime stoppers..
same old ..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 01:59:13 PM
It's different? I have a crimestoppers number they could respond to. They don't!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 05:33:29 PM
Crimestoppers knows, and "she" knows, anyone asking for more info? The pond and old pole location would only be known by someone who was there at the time. IMO. How did your conversations go with the Police you are the one talking with them? Any interest whatsoever? They take an anonymous letter as a tip but not info on her burial location?

Anything to do with it being Terry Arnold?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 10, 2011, 06:55:02 PM
I guess no one can blame you for thinking "is it because it's Arnold and he's untouchable" and I know that's what's in your mind D. 

However, there may be more to it.  Consider the fact that if the authorities "openly search" where you say... and find Joanne, then they will really be on the spot..given that you've spent years trying to expose those involved in "murder" (Lonnie's case) ... and also then they would have to look at him in the Kelly Cook case .... and then there's "Shannon Murrin" (one of the grossest cover-ups and abuse of the system in the country ... I can go on and on) ... need I say more D~

Could it be that given he has already bragged about it, the authorities need not look any further .... and especially dare not go there?  Maybe they have someone else in mind now ... maybe a good lead.  If that's the case, it would save them face for deliberately ignoring and condemning what you've strived to expose for years. .... then again, maybe there's no second letter at all  ::) just a new way of distracting from our applied pressure about this case being ignored.... especially in light of what you've strived to convey all this time.??  We'll see what they do.  God only knows! ... given what your suspect was able to pull off years before, perhaps those involved are trying to think of a way (or an excuse/cover) to excavate the area and quietly remove what they find .... if that wasn't done years ago???? imho
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 07:13:03 PM
Interesting observations Lost. This too will have to run its course now. I know what I will be thinking should a whole lot of time and resourses be expended and nothing more comes of it. It all just saddens me now.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 10, 2011, 09:11:08 PM
I have and will continue to "cooperate" with whatever the family wants.

Getting a little confused by your posts though MSP. Awhile back, you wanted us all to shut up so the family wouldn't get wind of what was being said here. We all cooperated.


Quote
Posts: 217

  Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSON - Missing Child - Chilliwack - 1983
« Reply #294 on: May 05, 2011, 08:29:58 PM »Anyway this thread can be put in the members only section for a little bit? Just have a feeling about something

Then zilch gets said or happens till now when the new anonymous letter was received. This just the latest in a long series of distractions. I have been saying the same thing all along to everyone and anyone who wants to listen. I'm not hard to find or hard to get a hold of. I've contacted crimestoppers and family. Was I not cooperating?

so I don't quite get this-
Quote
I know the family wants one thing and I think you should cooperate.

Cooperate by shutting up about Terry Arnold or what do you mean? Cooperate by letting the Police go about whatever they want and just let things run their course? I should cooperate how?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on September 13, 2011, 04:23:43 PM
I agree Sprenk.  This might be the "officer" you've been hoping for.  Go for it D.  Like Sprenk said, you can always play elusive about the guy's name until the last minute.  Beat them at their own game.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on September 22, 2011, 01:03:37 AM
I don't seem to remember seeing this comparison with the person Joanne was last seen with. Scroll down half the page and take a look at the comparison of the abductor and the one suspect from Highway of Tears.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2428.0
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: Annastaisha on September 23, 2011, 08:34:40 PM
I do think they have a similar look, but would a pedo start killing adults?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on September 25, 2011, 11:11:39 AM
I don't know Annastaisha. In the warped mind of a predator, perhaps the young teen girls were children to the perp/s.
I just posted that for review of where conversations were back some time. High cheekbones and longer faces are common, as were goatees back then. Those were also sketches and very likely a long shot. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on September 25, 2011, 12:03:35 PM
They are both pretty good sketches as far as sketches go but, in the written descriptors the guy seen with Joanne was listed as being Caucasian despite having an appearance that might suggest otherwise.

Too late to play elusive Lost. Everyone knows where to find me and what I have to say about this. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on October 26, 2011, 06:53:27 PM
Another month has passed. Has anyone heard anything about this case ? Any more info about the "letter".
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on November 04, 2011, 10:19:10 AM
Nothing more has been said or released as far as I know and I doubt anything will ever be done with this now. There are too many and too big complicating factors involved. The politics behind policing holds the trump card. Joanne is likely to remain buried where she is.

from MSP-
Quote
I was speaking in regards to a family member in paticular. And it doesn't change the fact that we should cooperate with what they want.  You could sppeak to the Cst in charge without mentioning a name ofthe person who told you this.  Who knows what they would do but there is an officer assigned to this case, so it is currently her responsibilty to follow up.


I have no doubt the Police are aware of this site and this thread. There have been suspicious activities in regard to this case all along. No one needs to tell them anything, they know.

Rumour has it the last Police officer assigned to and working this case, a  healthy young man, was found dead of unknown causes while out jogging.

I saw the young female officer who has been assigned to the case now. Too young, inexperienced, naive and blind to the ways of her superiors. Just pretty for pr and assigned for that purpose IMO. I'll leave her be. Maybe she will live to grow up marry and have children of her own.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on November 04, 2011, 02:36:32 PM
I see what you mean D.  Nobody wants to see a "good cop" get involved and end up missing or dead.  Good cops are scarcer that hen's teeth.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on November 18, 2011, 02:33:19 PM
Murdered or missing children are the toughest of all for most people to deal with, they strike you the hardest and stick with you the longest.  As some of you who have followed Joanne’s story know I have been posting about this little girl for some time now. Just the thought of her really being down in that hollow as described to me by RCMP informant T. Arnold has caused me a fair bit of personal grief.

I have been told that posting and pushing for resolution in this instance is not the way to go, it’s not going to happen, that I am causing potential trouble for her family and others and so I am going to comply. It’s a hard thing to do the day you finally capitulate and give in to the realization that there is nothing you can do about something like this. It has been an exercise in extreme frustration and futility for me.   

There are “anomalies” in our country and justice system. Despite what most people think, not every case has the same chance for justice as others. Knowing the difference isn’t something that comes easily or over night nor does it sit well when the realization dawns. Most people will be lucky enough not to have that experience first hand and will not be able to fathom nor believe that this sort of thing happens here in Canada. It is a very small portion of the population who know and would cross the line to say so and they can easily be lumped in with the conspiracy theorists and the delusionals of all types. I guess I have joined those ranks now. My attitude and perceptions have been altered and will be no doubt be reflected in my person and echoed in my words. It’s not something you can easily just forget. I thank the admin here for allowing me to have my say.

I hope and pray that someone someday will find a way to put the pieces in place for Joanne to receive a proper burial. In the meantime she is in God’s hands and its time for me to say Goodbye.
RIP Joanne Pedersen 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: justice on January 13, 2012, 01:14:11 PM
Wow, I have been away from this site for.awhile....looks like there have been lots of developments!  I read somewhere in the last few pages that there was an officer alluding to Joanne being alive, and renewed interest in the TA involvment, can someone give me an update, typing and reading on my phone just isn't working for me, getting laptop fixed.  I was energized to see the recent activityk on this thread.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on February 20, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
Joanne ... precious child .... we here will never give up hope of finding you... hope in uncovering/disclosing what was done to you. :'(

Sprenk; it's some good to see you here again!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on February 20, 2012, 12:19:21 PM
Back a few pages, it seemed hopeful that there was some activity on this case of Joanne's. Her father had received some info per a letter, I believe it was written ... so has nothing come of that?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: solvy on February 20, 2012, 01:00:43 PM
Haven't heard a peep!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: cana_nomad on May 14, 2012, 02:39:41 AM
I just read all 24 pages of this topic, it was that compelling.

I am very inspired by you MSPrenkels.  I hope you never stop your sleuthing.  Are you at all a PI?  Because you would be a total asset if you were!

I am living in Vancouver until July, I will definitely be calling on you if I come across any other cases in the lower Mainland.

Great work everyone, kudos to you all!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on May 17, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Thank you.

Happy Birthday to Joanne. She would have been 40 years old today.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on May 17, 2012, 09:42:10 PM
And another year slips on by.  :( :(
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 23, 2012, 11:00:35 PM
Whether any one is saying so or not, it appears that all the initiatives privately undertaken by some over the last year or so have failed and come to a stop. I am hearing things through the grapevine that some parties are privately saying there was never any pond behind the penny pincher store back at he time. The list of those supposedly saying that include the Police and crime stoppers. Others including Joanne's school principle and his wife claim the opposite is true. When contacted, the principles wife even had a story about her knowledge of the pond dating back to her childhood when she was raised in that same neighborhood. Both say a trail through the trees led down to it.

Some really interesting private information says heavy equipment was sitting behind the store at the time of Joanne's disappearance and work was being performed near that pond.

Perhaps MSP will return with a better update and let us know whats really going on.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 23, 2012, 11:56:11 PM
I too am disappointed D1;  I keep thinking of "the phone booth" in this case.... also in Kelly Cook case, also in another case where the young girl at the phone booth was seen accepting a drive in a small red car.... while Terry Arnold was staying within yards of the phone booth, and using a small red car belong to his handicapped/naive landlady.  Seems like Arnold was always around a phone booth to me... could be he was drawn to such due to having such peculiar childish ways.  Maybe he learned from his own experience that people using phone booths have "no ride" and aren't going anywhere too soon.  ....as if those people are expected to not show up on time etc.  For some reason, every time I look at a pay phone now, I picture Arnold; every time I see a tall loner type, poxy face and dark mustache - wearing glasses, I find myself stareing  to see if the guy's features are all there.... and I look to see if he's wearing cowboy boots.  He does have a distinct look that stays in ones head!

Somehow, I thought that Sprenk would see it through;  But it's pretty hard when you are younger and not "seasoned" to the feeling of risk and precariousness, that you have to be able to overcome when dealing closely with this kind of case .... especially when there's that horrible fact that Arnold sucked up to and worshiped cops .... and got the benefits of his childish wanna-be demeanor around police.  He managed to make them look the other way by always snitching to them and admiring them.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 27, 2012, 05:20:24 PM
I should have known better, I did know better and should not have consented to or allowed the investigation spawned by this discussion to go underground. Once information leaked out that the young Police officer who was last assigned this investigation died under mysterious circumstance while out jogging, that was pretty well the end of it even for the most nieve and trusting. Once the former now retired investigator became secretly involved again, seems the death nail was struck. IMO there will never be any resolution by way of a secretive inside investigation.

The phone booth similarities are more than coincidence in my mind too. It may be something to watch for in other unsolved murders /disappearances of other young women. The other girl mentioned in the circumstance posted above by Lost, was Roberta Ferguson
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=56.0)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 28, 2012, 10:23:03 PM
A former military member once stationed on the Chilliwack base claims there was once an old telegraph line running to the base. He claims it was standard procedure to prop the poles up with columns of rock wherever they had to be stood up in standing water. That area was extremely swampy back in the early days. If this is true for the pole location described by Terry Arnold, there will be no records available to the public. If anyone has military clearance to perform a search, please forward the results back here. Any old photos would be appreciated.

There are very few examples left of that sort of pole support system but one of the last can be seen near Skagway Alaska. Erected by the US military early in the 1900's some of the old line still stands including the preserved remains of some old poles that were once supported by rock columns to cross water. Just as has been described by T. Arnold a short distance from the Chilliwack Military base.

pic#1) to see the old telegraph poles you have to take a tourist train through the hills along the path of the old gold rush of 1898.

pic #2) many of the old poles in the drier locations are well preserved.

pic #3) When you get down to the lower areas the poles still look good right til you hit where they have to cross water.

pic #4) Then if you look closely in the water you will spot old rock columns supporting remnants of rotted out poles. Some are being preserved by wooden corrals placed around them to preserve the rocks and remnants from collapsing from ice and erosion. You have to zoom in to the darkness of the left side of the pond to see this one.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 28, 2012, 10:55:45 PM
From my research and understanding of the Chilliwack area during the past few years of digging, it seems everything stayed the same in that town for years and years....decades in fact!  Then all of a sudden "amalgamation"! .... and everything changed drastically.. especially near town.  It all started to change drastically in the late 80's I think.  ....military pulled out, buisnesses changed hands, .... the only thing I saw remain the same on that corner was the house that we were pursuing..... And after a few weeks of serious theories on that house, and quiet investigation on that end.... it suddenly caught fire early one morning .... just as we started gathering info. about the place.  Strange how long it just sat there for years.... deserted for quite some time in the end... then puff; it ignites itself... and the powers that be in that town made sure nobody got to snoop too closely... bulldozing it in before  you could turn around.  That intersection holds big secrets for sure.  Too bad the trees can't talk.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 28, 2012, 11:43:51 PM
This has been one of the strangest threads we have had on here to try to follow or make sense of. The fire was extremely suspicious, the timing even more so. Felt as if someone were watching all along. Then the anonymous letter supposedly received by the Police right in the middle of our discussion.

Lost I recall you telling me that the house had been bulldozed before and I was shocked I hadn't been told or that it wasn't posted on here on the board. So I arranged to visit the area myself

First thing I noticed was that "the" house may not have been bulldozed. There seems to be tenants or at least people about the property. The house on the property may even be lived in. The motorhome was still there, lawn mowed, all looking as "normal" as can be. Is someone lying to you Lost or is this the neighboring property? photos attached.

Modified- I can no longer find the old photos of the property before the fire to compare to. Was there not a picture posted of a motorhome up on blocks in the driveway?

The rest of the neighborhood has changed over the years, all three corners developed except this one. This one is almost park like in its serenity. If a house was bulldozed off this corner, it was long ago. The property has been excavated very well, no sign of a foundation left, lot landscaped, perfect lawn even.

And a trail leads right off the side of the road down into the trees and close to a low lying area eerily similar to what Terry Arnold described. If you followed that trail a little further on, it would lead you right to that house. The area's secrets may be getting a little closer to the surface than someone wants known. Was the fire an excuse to bring in digging equipment or something else we do not know of?

pic 1) the burnt house recent picture, is this not the same house?
pic 2) the motorhome still in yard, same motorhome correct?
pic3) the trail leading from roadside into trees near intersection, very similar as Arnold described. There is swampy low lying ground around the intersection.

I asked for people to watch for and tell us if digging or excavation was taking place in that area.  If it has, no one said a word till too late.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 08:46:27 AM
The house in picture #1 has no basement windows. Seems several pages back MS had gone to take a look at the place and claimed the house looked unlived in but there was a light showing in the basement window. Or are you speaking of a different one?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 29, 2012, 09:06:23 AM
Sap, the mysterious house used to be a barber shop on one site.  .... and it was diagonally across from the old Penny Pincher Store.  The area Terry Arnold spoke of was going into the woodsy or brush area a ways behind the parking lot of that old store (where there are businesses/ etc. are now).  And I'm fairly sure that brush/swamp area extended back and parallel with the street ..... I think you could follow the swampy area back then ... all the way to apartment buildings back area close to the military property.  I will find a few pics. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 09:15:45 AM
I guess I am so not a visualist.  :)
From page 11 this thread:

Quote
Reply #159 on: February 23, 2011, 07:03:56 PM »

I talked to some people..
There used to be a Macs convinent store across from Penny pinchers and there is an old white rancher on another corner which is suspicious.
The phone booth was right on the corner very visable to the road.
The pond has already been dug up with no result.
My friend said a couple years after the disapperance a man used to call the same payphone whenever a 14 year old girl was near the booth and she would answer.  She confided in my friend who used to work at Macs about what was going on.  My friend warned her about the girl that had gone missing but police were never contacted. She suspects the guy who lived in the old white rancher is the guy who would make the phonecalls as the phone booth would be visable to that house.  To this day the house is still there and is very creepy.  It is a vacant house and the city wants it removed but the owners refuse... Strange?  Both people I talked to think she is in the basement or something.  My friend also mentioned while working at Macs a 30ish year old man tried to make her leave with him but she refused and a customer came in.. Maybe the same person seen with the girl in the phone booth.... None of these incidents were reported.  I want to check out the old house.....  When I first read this thread and found out the area she went missing from the house was the first thing that came to mind.  The lights are always out and the rumour is no one lives there but a couple nights ago my friend noticed the basement light was on and there were bars on the windows....

Is this not the one across from the Penny Pincher?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 29, 2012, 10:14:01 AM
I see what you mean Sap.  In going back numerous pages and reviewing, I noticed at one point I, myself, expected the Penny Pincher was on the opposite corner..... even in the post above.... then I look at where D1 points out about the "Lordco" property.... and I realize "oh yes! I had been thinking the other side of the street..... where by going through the path and brush... it goes right to the back of the school yard.  but if I know Penny Pincher to be on the opposite corer, the area behind that goes all the way down to Lordco Parts business.  So you see, there were times some of us were imagining the side the school was (or now is) on.... that is to say.... the school is on the google maps image now.    However, others were imagining the other side that ends up down near Lordco property.  .....all confusing unless you were the one who heard Arnold brag of this... but even then... and assuming it was Arnold who did this awful deed he bragged about, both sides of the street had similar paths leading to back land.  ....thus it can be construed either way!

In one view, you can actually visualize where the broken pole was (if you go with the side of the street ending at the Lordco Parts business).... this side of the street (if you are up at the corner/intersection) was directly across from the "spooky house/barber shop".
 D1 do you agree?  Arnold could have been describing either side of the street.  Especially if he was drunk or high when he committed the crime.... probably didn't really know what direction he went in.... and imo.  he could have dragged the child off in any of three directions ... and ended up with the same kind of terrain at that time in history.
https://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=td+bank+vedder+road+chilliwack&aq=&sll=49.112185,-121.957727&sspn=0.000671,0.002543&ie=UTF8&hq=td+bank&hnear=Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+British+Columbia&t=h&vpsrc=6&fll=49.1108,-121.957389&fspn=0.001268,0.003777&st=113750817835014184475&rq=1&ev=p&split=1&lci=com.panoramio.all&ll=49.1108,-121.957389&spn=0.001268,0.003777&z=18&iwloc=A
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 29, 2012, 10:17:46 AM

Quote
In one view, you can actually visualize where the broken pole was (if you go with the side of the street ending at the Lordco Parts business)....

https://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=49.110607,-121.959054&spn=0.000317,0.000944&t=h&z=20&lci=com.panoramio.all
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 10:26:40 AM
From an article on page 11 police were quoted giving this description of the man in the phone booth with Joanne:

Quote
A composite picture of the man released by police shows a Caucasian male, 20-23 years old at the time, just over six feet tall. He had an average build with hair that came over his ears in a messy or wavy style. He had a moustache and was wearing a 1980s-style waist-length black leather jacket at the time.

Arnold was well under 6 feet and was slender, not average.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 11:30:21 AM
SAP
Quote
Arnold was well under 6 feet and was slender, not average.


Barb Stoppel impression warrant puts Arnold at about 6 foot tall (boots). Weight varied up to about 195 pounds, before Joanne.  He began growing his hair out after Barb. He is described as being a chameleon.

Other reports claim the suspect in Joanne's disappearance was 5'7' or so,
http://empathysinsights.blogspot.ca/2011/01/joanne-marie-pederson.html (http://empathysinsights.blogspot.ca/2011/01/joanne-marie-pederson.html)
Quote
An unidentified male was seen with her in the phone booth. He was described as being a caucasian male, approximately twenty ( 20 ) to thirty ( 30 ) years old, 5'6" to 5'7" in height, slim to medium build, light to dark hair ( that was below the ears ), clean shaven and wearing a dark jacket.

So take your pick, eye witness testimony and descriptions have been in a problem in other instances involving T. Arnold. Here you have two to choose from.

Still looking for old pictures but the house in the news reports on fire is not there on that corner across from where the store was supposedly located. If it were there it is long gone without a trace even. The old maps we had looked at were a bit deceptive. 

A lot if not most of the Chilliwack info came from one source. It was believed at the time.

As far as the quote-
Quote
I talked to some people..
There used to be a Macs convinent store across from Penny pinchers and there is an old white rancher on another corner which is suspicious.
The phone booth was right on the corner very visable to the road.
The pond has already been dug up with no result.[/quote]

Well Lost you and I both have a copy of a PM from the same person saying there was no pond behind the store. Crime Stoppers is saying the same thing. There is no verification that the pond was ever dug up, or that it was the same pond. Filled in if anything is more like it.

confusing the location of store-
from MSPrenkles
post 155
Quote
The convinence store she was seen in is now where the Shoppers Drug Mart is.. So if you go into the map and look across the street from Lordo that was the location.


from same party post 167
Quote
Ok if she lived on that side of the road it would make sense if there was a trail behind shoppers area to her house along a back trail instead of walking on the road.  Maybe she started walking home on the trail and the man followed her... killed her and ditched her in the pond.. It makes sense now that I see where she lived is is quite probable there was a short cut through the bush behind the penny pincher.  I will check it out on the weekend.  I am pretty sure it is all paved now.  Now that I look more into it further I think the penny pincher would have been more of where the bank is.

I have lost trust in all of what we have been told. The exact location of the old Penny Pincher is critical to finding the exact location of the pond. Arnold was asked specifically same side of street or opposite side of store. Answer same side. I do not know whether the exact spot has been properly indentified yet or whether it has been confused.

We have all been distracted by the strange white house, silenced by a request to allow a semi private investigation to take place and have never heard a thing back while the area has apparently been dug up and demolished.

Once again, if anyone from the Chilliwack area has evidence to show the true location of the old Penny Pincher store, that would be a great start.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 11:54:18 AM
I was just going by one sketch of Arnold and he looked pretty scrawny but you would have a better idea D1.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
Lost, page 12 ... Sprenkels sketch of locations:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.165

I don't think I will be in that area any time soon otherwise I would take a gander myself. At the moment I don't think highly of BC drivers so staying away from there. Never ever rear ended in AB but in one quick short trip to Kelowna airport, smacked while stopped at a red light. While out of the car, I felt a "brush" as another car sped past the accident. Those guys are wicked and I'm surprised there aren't more accidents there.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 12:33:39 PM
From the hand drawn map, a new location for the store emerges but the problem is, the phone booth was supposed to be beside the penny pincher. It is a whole different ball game if the phone booth was across the street at another store. As in were there two phone booth's? The directions described by Arnold originate from the booth.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.msg57569#msg57569 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.msg57569#msg57569)

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 01:44:07 PM
The location of the phone booth shown in the above hand drawn map supplied by MSPrenkles does not match the decription of the location supplied in the original reports. A link to the crimestoppers re-enactment is here too.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightCanada/ar/t206.htm (http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightCanada/ar/t206.htm)


Quote
Pedersen was last seen in her hometown of Chilliwack, British Columbia on February 19, 1983. She was last seen at approximately 8:15 pm at a payphone outside the Penny Pincher Store near the corner of Vedder Road and Watson Road at the Southeast corner of the building facing Vedder Road.[/quote]


Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 01:58:05 PM
I haven't seen a Mac store that didn't have an outside phone booth, and usually all old type "all goods" stores usually had an outside booth as well. I can't say for certain but I would think there was one at PP but I know that's not good enough to guess. Would Town Hall have copies of old street maps and buildings? On microfilm.
Was the Mac store even there in 1983? If it wasn't then neither was the phone booth, imo.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 02:16:43 PM
I don't know whether there was a mac or not back then but I am going to discount it all and start over.

If the Penny Pincher were indeed here on this corner as depicted by A in the copied map, (attached) then A is also the approximate location of the phone booth as described in earlier reports. The mac store would be irrelevant whether it were there or not. B would be the old barber shop then which is no longer there since the fire. C would then tentatively be the approximate location described by Arnold. (if Joanne lived in that direction) Also needing to be confirmed, the link to the original home location no longer works. Arrow  A points to where the PP phone booth was located at the time As noted, the entire area both sides of Watson was a low lying swampy area in the past.

Map of corner-
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 02:30:47 PM
Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSON - Missing Child - Chilliwack - 1983
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2011, 08:22:57 PM »Quote vedder rd 1948

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.msg58840#msg58840 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.msg58840#msg58840)

This picture shows how wet and swampy the area was years ago. Poles were subject to flooding and drying, perfect conditions for pole rot.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 02:42:35 PM
On the nearby Military base (now more a museum) an old relic of the poles that used to service the base still stands. (pic #1) There are more still standing here and there and if connected would head in the direction of the penny pincher store.

Out back outside of the base administration center near the corner of Dieppe and Normandy lies the remains of an old rotted pole looking as if it has just recently been removed from somewhere. (Pic #2 the pole) This lies close to where the old poles lead to the Penny Pincher store.

Whats going on? The area is being demolished and the old relics (evidence) being removed right in front of our eyes.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 03:46:36 PM
That is what is called progress and safety concerns. Old trees/poles are subject to rot high up as well as at the base; wherever there is a most vulnerable spot. Even a woodpecker could have made a hole near the middle or top allowing moisture in and causing rot. When these heavy poles break and tumble it is not a pretty sight if a human or pet should be walking near the fall. I have seen a man totally crushed and he did not survive. So I can't believe that evidence is just now being destroyed. If that were the case, there would be alot involved in the conspiracy and it doesn't make an ounce of sense. imho. :)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 04:19:25 PM
There's only a few of these old poles left betwen the base and the old store. One lies here. Those poles have been the subject of discussion and searches for the last several years. A former poster here just brought in the old investigator recently. Everyone was made aware the importance. No one informed any of us on here the old house was being demolished, nor poles being removed. It has all been reported to crime stoppers with no follow up requested. Same as with Kelly Cook.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that the other (pole locations ) should at least be investigated and locations recorded before removing changing things to this degree no matter the reason.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 29, 2012, 05:01:26 PM
I wasn't aware that a poster brought an investigator in on the case. Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinions.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 29, 2012, 07:53:30 PM
...nice to see you Sprenk... as always! 

Could you elaborate on "those pictures" you say aren't the right location... we posted more than a few... different locations deliberately during discussion today.

Also Sprenk; it would be great if you can tell us or show up "by media maybe?" that Arnold was in jail at the time.  I've done lots of research on him in the past 4 years; although he had been in jail in that area before, it was not the same year/s or time frame of Joanne's disappearance... ..and I felt sure I've gathered up every press release of him ever being jailed... now we need to create a reference log of all his incarcerations known publically.  I'm sure 20 people could veryify Arnold serving time in that area, and within years/months of Joanne/s disappearance, but I haven't been able to find any yet that reflect him being "off the street" at the time of this horrible crime.  Any help would be appreciated if you have it Sprenk... thanks a million.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
Well well!
I called the principle of the school from back at the time Joanne went to school, not the current principle. I don't know how you can misconstrue what was said and put a 45 year old in those shoes.

Quote
Others including Joanne's school principle and his wife claim the opposite is true. When contacted, the principles wife even had a story about her knowledge of the pond dating back to her childhood when she was raised in that same neighborhood. Both say a trail through the trees led down to it.


Thought that was obviously the time in question and they would be more likely to know.  They claim they recall the pond well, the wife is from that area, born and raised. . Give them a call! I don't make this stuff up.
Thanks for the update on the burnt house.. Hows the RCMP career coming along?

Nowhere else do the Police seriously look at Arnold for any of the crimes he has admitted to either. Strangely so, remember justice Cory's words? "I must conclude it was a deliberate act" Yep, he is pretty unstable too.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6171.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6171.0)
No surprise here. Perhaps spmeone could post the true location of the Penny Pincher store? We have about four different ones listed here now.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 29, 2012, 09:46:06 PM
I am trying to brain wash? Have you called the old school principle? He and his wife directly contradict you. Very detailed description right down to the approximate distance behind the store. What am I supposed to say? Do I need to tape record them before you get a hold of them?

I have lost trust obviously. You know how it was left and had me agree to silence for the sake of the family. Now you are in thick with the Police and don't provide updates nor request any info other than what you have accepted as truth yourself. Call the old principle.. Who has been brainwashed? I gave my sources, yours?

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 12:17:03 PM
re: clearing up misconceptions/ discrepancies.

Obviously attitudes have changed radically since this first began. Without trying to make things any more confusing, or turn it into an all out dispute, I have the names and numbers for Joanne's old principle if anyone wants to confirm.

I have no idea what this is all about either-
from MSPrengles-
Quote
I have a message from you stating you contacted the school directly, yet another delusion.


reply-
FYI- I did contact the school, had a fairly good conversation with a man either principle/vice principle or at least a very knowledgeable long time staff member who answered the phone. Sorry didn't record name but discussed names dates and local info. Whoever said i didn't call, hasn't a clue.

from MSPrengles-
Quote
Oh and FYI those pictures are not even at the correct location or intersection....

reply-
Those pictures that I posted and you refer to are of the last house before the intersection of Vedder and Watson and the map previously posted link #1 below) were all from this same intersection. see google map link #2

The intersection is Vedder and Watson as was previously identified. If that is incorrect please supply the correct address to the correct intersection. We don't need anymore confusion. As far as I know this is the correct intersection and the correct corner that the store was on. I honestly fail to see how this is wrong after all that has been posted but you can at least clear that up.

Link #2 is the google map starting at 5800 Vedder Joanne's home address looking north to the same intersection as was previously posted ( link# 1.) Follow map to Vedder and Watson. Google shows a Tim Hortons on the wrong side of that corner if that is causing some confusion. The rest seems to match. If you switch to street view walking man the old house since burnt and now removed can still be seen on the corner in google's records. It doesn't show in regular view. The CIBC bank is across the street. Is this not the correct bank where you say the Penny Pincher was once located? If not please redirect to the correct address.
Hopefully this can be left with the exact location of the store at least cleared up.
link # !
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=6261 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=6261)
link #2
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=vXa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=785&bih=475&q=5800+Vedder+Rd.+Chilliwack&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x5484472a25bbf325:0x192218eda4b977cc,5800+Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+BC+V2R+3N4&gl=ca&sa=X&ei=escWUKORGsjhqgG2zoCACg&ved=0CAcQ8gEwAA (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=vXa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=785&bih=475&q=5800+Vedder+Rd.+Chilliwack&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x5484472a25bbf325:0x192218eda4b977cc,5800+Vedder+Rd,+Chilliwack,+BC+V2R+3N4&gl=ca&sa=X&ei=escWUKORGsjhqgG2zoCACg&ved=0CAcQ8gEwAA)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on July 30, 2012, 04:14:45 PM
Due to some of the recent posts (removed) on this thread I find it necessary to post this reminder.   

Some of the posting over the last few days has been nothing short of hostile. 

Lets try to remember that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and have the right to express them respectfully. This case remains unsolved so there is no proof of anyone here being 'right or wrong'

Posts written in a way as to be demeaning to another member will be removed. I won't watch in silence while Joanne's thread turns into a free-for-all.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 05:34:35 PM
I don't know what has happened behind the scenes during the time we all kept silent on Joanne's thread but seems a whole lot of false information has been passed around in secrecy.

The pond was one, saying Terry Arnold was in jail at the time of Joanne's murder another. Some of those facts I would at least like to see kept straight no matter what else gets said by anyone. A Police officer supplied the information.

Joanne disappeared on Feb 19th 1983.

Arnold was arrested for an unrelated matter Fed 27th 1983. -
http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf (http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf)

Quote -
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 06:00:01 PM
You can "feel" as you please MSP. I just want to keep the record straight. You claimed Arnold was in jail at the time, not true. You claimed there was no pond, I gave you the name of the people who claim to know otherwise. You said those pictures I posted were of the wrong intersection, seems thats not true. I'm not talking in circles here, straight stuff with evidence attached. I've  named my sources, I can't do any more.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 08:23:17 PM
Quote
It's fine if you don't want to take my word. I have already posted photos of the house that burnt down in this thread therefor I won't again.

What is that supposed to mean? What are you answering to? Do you read and look at the links posted? The picture you posted #1 out your car window is the same intersection as what I posted that you claimed wasn't the same intersection.. That burnt house isn't there any longer. If you had looked out your passenger side window at the spot you took your first picture, the picture of the house I posted would be right beside you. It is now the last house along that side just before the same intersection.

Quote
2nd of all, Joanne went missing the weekend before Arnold got married (marriage certificate is public record).  The same document posted speaks of an incident 3 days prior to
Joanne's disappearance, he was incarcerated after this incident during Joanne's disappearance

Again just to keep things straight.
The document refered to above, (attached below) There is no mention Arnold was ever incarcerated at the time of Joanne's disappearance.

Arnold was still out on the street until his arrest Feb 27th 1983
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=6274 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=6274)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 08:37:37 PM
MSP 
Quote
I don't expect you to believe it because you are obsessed with Terry Arnold.
Right, so obsessed that I willingly kept quiet on this thread for over a year while you led me to believe there was a decent investigation going on behind the scenes. How many times did I call pm or pester you? Right, not once. Only to now find this is what came of that? No pond, Arnold was locked up at the time, etc.. etc..

I can accept Terry Arnold being ruled out if honestly and fairly done so based on real evidence to show that. You give none of that. Even your latest is highly deceptive.

MSP
Quote
There is an apartment right beside where the pond would be that was built prior to her disappearance so there was no space behind Penny Pinchers for a trail.


Have you called the principle yet? Have you listened to any of what has been said about that? You of course do realize that the Penny Pincher store was not situated where the bank building is now located on that lot? You are being highly misleading imo basing the area of land left behind the building that exists now to what was left behind the building then. And.. Even recent google maps only show two units built behind the bank off Watson, the rest were built later on.

Apples and oranges anyway, different buildings. The bank and the Penny Pincher are not one and the same.  Have you called the principle yet? Why not? You would rather just post here calling me obsessed and deluded and whatever other terms you have used instead of checking out all the facts including talking to the witnesses who were there at the time and who recall the exact conditions? They live in your area, they are available, they are well known and well respected people.

so- MSP
Quote
I don't expect you to believe it because you are obsessed with Terry Arnold.


You are correct I have trouble believing what you say any longer but nothing to do with being obsessed. Has to do with the evidence saying otherwise and you being contradicted by Joanne's former principle and his wife. Do you have some compelling reason I should believe you over the Police reports and the witnesses I provided?

I doubt it so lets just drop it here. You can believe whatever you wish based on whatever you want. I have posted my sources, offered my witnesses, nothing more I can say. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on July 30, 2012, 08:39:30 PM
I actually just did a post that disappeared in cyber space.  I was questioning as to whether there is anything written anywhere Sprenk, stating that Arnold was behind bars at the time.  I suspect he would have been picked up for threatening his "supposed wife" (I don't think they were legally married) but he would most likely have been arraigned the next morning pending a trail date... unless he pled guilty and was put on parole and orders to keep the peace etc.  Arnold was very experienced at calling a public defendant and knew his rights.  ...plus he always got special treatment from police; that is made clear in all that was written about him... especially clear in the Barb Stoppel story.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: SAP on July 30, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
If I may interject here ... The picture D1 posted in post Reply #356 is the same house that MSprenkels posted Reply # 387, just from a different angle. D1 claimed Vedder and Watson and when I google mapped found the same, with the sign in the background. At the time I failed to see that Watson turns into Promotory at the intersection.
So I don't see what the problem is but frankly I don't even care anymore. There have been just too many threads now erupt into mellow dramatic feuds.   
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on July 30, 2012, 10:28:05 PM
The house that D1 posted is a completed different house, it is tucked in behind the house was on the corner, and is part of a trailer park.

This picture is from being on Vedder Road, the road infront of the brick building (TD bank) is Watson/Promontory.  The gravel and sign is where the house was.

(https://fbcdn-photos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/207454_10151139618730903_1629847811_n.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on July 30, 2012, 10:36:40 PM
Here is the house that D1 posted

Then the house that is actually at the intersection (before it burnt down)

Note the sign in both photos to clearly show they are two seperate houses
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 30, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
SAP
Quote
So I don't see what the problem is but frankly I don't even care anymore. There have been just too many threads now erupt into mellow dramatic feuds.   


I have to say I finally understand and agree.

The house that was our landmark to identify this intersection and locate where the Penny pincher store was once located, was demolished and removed without any of us being told. I took a picture of the house next door to where I thought the now missing house once was to use as a reference to ask if this was the right intersection where the Penny Pincher store once was.  The answer from MSP " it wasn't." 
Quote
Oh and FYI those pictures are not even at the correct location or intersection....


It just got dumber and more confusing from there. Apologies to all, just forget it and ignore it. No one is even on the same page here anymore.
Joanne lived down at 5700 -5800 block Vedder. The store was on the corner of Watson and Vedder, the same intersection as the pictures. Google maps can walk you up to the intersection. Thats all we need to know from this.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on August 01, 2012, 10:00:10 PM
The old house in reference to burnt down last year and was demolished shortly after... It now looks as though it never existed. Joanne lived at 5840 Vedder Road. Which would have been on the opposite side of the road and up a few blocks
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on August 01, 2012, 10:07:27 PM

The red dot would be Penny Pinchers (would be on the left side in this photo) and the green dot would be Joannes house (on the right side of the road in this picture). Hopefully that clarifies it.



(https://fbcdn-photos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/530049_10151144076330903_1227863121_n.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: jobo on October 05, 2012, 02:42:52 AM
MSN HOME page the last few weeks has been spotlighting UNsolved crimes...I will add this link as it is referring to Jo-Anne; just in case there is something in there...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://news.ca.msn.com/missing-children-nine-canadian-cases#image=2

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:07:25 GMT | By MSN New
Missing children: Nine Canadian cases

Jo-Anne Pedersen - Chilliwack, B.C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the evening of Saturday Feb. 19, 1983, ten-year-old Jo-Anne Pedersen had an argument with her sister and was locked out of the house. Jo-Anne walked to the convenience store, a short distance away, to call her mother and stepfather who were out for the evening.
 
Jo-Anne called her step-father from a phone booth outside the store. Witnesses saw Jo-Anne in the phone booth crying. Jo-Anne told her stepfather what had happened and asked him to come pick her up. A man came on the line and told her stepfather to come pick her up or he would call the police. After this, the call was disconnected.
 
Jo-Anne's mother and stepfather went to the convenience store but did not find Jo-Anne. They kept looking for her but couldn't find her and soon called the police to report her missing.
 
In February 2008, 25 years later, police received an anonymous letter from someone who claimed to have been in the phone booth with Jo-Anne. Through the media, police appealed for the writer to come forward and speak to them. Nothing more was heard from this man until August 2011 when the police received another anonymous letter from him. Another appeal was made asking for him to identify himself and talk to police. To date, this has not happened and the investigation continues to find out what happened to Jo-Anne.
 
It has been 29 years since Jo-Anne was last seen. She would be 40 years old today.
 
If you have any knowledge about Jo-Anne or the man in the phone booth, please call Cst. Justine Hayward of the Chilliwack RCMP 604-792-4611 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).
 • Bing: More on Jo-Anne Pedersen
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on October 05, 2012, 06:53:02 PM
Excellent! thanks jobo.. It all goes so quiet and silent when no one keeps on seeking answers.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 07, 2013, 10:55:01 AM
Mystery of missing Chilliwack girl turns 30
 
By Paul J. Henderson, The Times February 19, 2013
 

CHILLIWACK -- Thirty years ago today, 10-year-old Jo-Anne Pedersen made a phone call from a phone booth at the Penny Pinchers convenience story at the corner of Watson and Vedder roads in Chilliwack.

That was the last time anyone saw the young girl but her mother holds out hope the now 40-year-old is still alive.

"The police are still receiving information on this ongoing investigation," said RCMP spokesperson Cpl. Tammy Hollingsworth in a press release. "Investigators are hopeful that we will soon know the truth regarding what happened to JoAnne so we can give her mother and family closure."

Witnesses 30 years ago reported that there was a man in the phone booth with Pedersen on Feb. 19, 1983, at approximately 8: 20 p.m.

Pedersen called her parents to pick her up because she was locked out of the house. By the time her parents arrived, the young girl was gone. Chilliwack RCMP have received three anonymous letters since 2008 from a man who claims to be a witness. Police say it is imperative they find this witness.

The latest letter was received late summer 2011 and was dropped off at the Chilliwack detachment.

Anyone with any information on this investigation or these letters is asked to contact the Chilliwack RCMP Serious Crime Unit at 604792-4611 or Crime Stoppers at 1800-222-8477 (TIPS).

phenderson@chilliwacktimes.com


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Mystery+missing+Chilliwack+girl+turns/7986039/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Mystery+missing+Chilliwack+girl+turns/7986039/story.html)

Police are still looking for clues to the disappearance of Jo-Anne Pedersen 30 years ago.Photograph by: Submitted photo , for the TIMES

click to enlarge
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: debbiec on March 07, 2013, 11:17:28 AM
Taken from the RCMP website.


10 yrs - 1983 and 32 yrs - 2004
 

click to enlarge.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 07, 2013, 12:57:23 PM
Due to my own personal beliefs in this case, I doubt very much police want to, or have any intenions of ever solving Joanne's case... "for some reason we are not privy to, but can only guess".  I hope there will come a day when this beautiful child will be found... if she is still in that area.  I think the only way this case will ever get solved is when someone with direct knowledge of what happened to her, goes public with positive proof that cannot be stiffled by anybody in authority or otherwise.  jmho!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: cana_nomad on March 24, 2013, 09:17:07 PM
Normally I do not have this little hope, but I don't think anyone will find the body- and I do believe that is what we are looking for here.

It is too easy to dispose of human remains in BC.  Too much water, too strong currents, too easy to miss someone in the wee hours heaving a bag into water.  This is why I always feel dread whenever I hear of missing persons cases in BC.  It's almost too easy to get away with a murder.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: leonagleant on March 24, 2013, 11:13:22 PM
A heart-breaking story. The wrong decision to lock a sibling out of the house, clearly. Joanne did the right thing by proceeding to a nearby phone booth to call her parents. Bizarre that the stranger who we can only assume abducted her came on the phone to the father and threatened to call the police. Joanne's father would know what age this caller sounded like he was on the phone. Also bizarre that someone writes to the police over the years claiming to be a "witness." Normall witnesses come forward if they are innocent, the don't play games like this.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2013, 02:00:04 PM
There is obviously something more going on than we know. I recall being informed that there were quite a number of witnesses at the time. Somewhere over a dozen people saw the man in the phone booth with Christine. The Police asked for them all to come forward to tell what they saw. The first wave of 7 or so innocents mainly young teens did only to find that they were all being placed on watch lists and were to be followed and monitored for years by the Police. They were all treated as potential child killers and spoke out about the treatment at the time. The rest of the witnesses never came forward after that, at least not publicly.

Even with the distrust I have I did contact crimestoppers with the confession I heard but never got a reply. I have questions and reservations as to who the person is who writes in to the Police and question what is being said.

The man who confessed to me in regard this murder is a recognized serial killer. The same man confessed to another man in regard another murder and the Police checked that location and did find a body. That is documented. The location the killer claimed to have left Christine at has never been checked. Christines former school principal and his wife have confirmed that the geography of the area where Christine was supposedly left was as this killer described at the time.

Obstruction ensued in many ways following that disclosure including the latest letter from the unidentified anonymous witness. The timing was suspect. Perhaps he is real, perhaps not. Perhaps he knows more than we, perhaps he has reason to fear the Police?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on March 25, 2013, 07:51:56 PM
..... ;) or perhaps the "confessor" has something on someone of importance/power in Chilliwack ... thus, he is untouchable for at least Joanne's murder, if not the others. .... or else, maybe the authorities of Chilliwack know exactly who did this ... and that person is even more untouchable.... like a pedo. from a prominent family or a family that has "the goods" on certain police or politicians in the area... maybe a "favor owed and called in at the time;  Thus, police pleas for information could be nothing more than grandstanding... pretending to be doing the job we are hounding them about.  Maybe Joanne's abductor was a "narcissist" member of a prominent family... even a mentally ill person who was hidden away after the crime.  There is plenty fishy in this case for sure.  imo!  Maybe others in the community also know such, but as with all small towns, they know to keep it under their hat... even pretend it never occurred.  There are always reasons for "heads in the sand" .. and usually it is born out of fear of "something that could "bite them".  Don't spill the "----" and you won't be affected by it.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: leonagleant on March 26, 2013, 09:30:10 PM
D1: Are you referring to the same serial killer that you say you met in a bar who also confessed to killing another young woman. Or have you met more than one serial killer?
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on March 27, 2013, 02:39:54 PM
Same killer refered to throughout the entire thread.

If the person who sends letters into the Police is real with legitimate concerns, and has something of value to say, pehaps he will find us and consider posting that information here? This site allows anonymous information to be posted in special circumstance.



Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: J1 on June 25, 2013, 08:14:01 PM
Hi everyone. I just came across this thread as I was looking online to see if there was any updates on Joanne. I went to school with Joanne and was in the area at the time of her abduction. We were around the same age but different classes.

There have been a few questions here as to the corner store she was abducted from and why she went outside to use the phone. I have the answer to that. On CFB Chilliwack the pay phone system was connected to the Base phone system. All the neighborhood kids would pick up a pay phone, dial the base operator, and ask the operator to connect to any other base phone line (ie The Legion where her parents were at). The Penny Pinchers corner store was not connected to the base main phone lines but the pay phone outside was. The corner store was quiet in the evening and the owners were very nice people. Using the phone outside was just the normal thing to do when calling a base phone.

So a couple of different facts that you all might want to know: it was normal for a kid to be out at the corner store alone, it was a small and safe town, this was not unusual. You can all rest assured that every place at or near the base was searched including Ryder Lake, Sleepy Hollow, all the rock quarries, all the forests, logging rds, Cultas Lake, the river, etc. The whole town was searched with a fine tooth comb. This town does have a lot of forests, river space etc which makes searching very difficult because of the sheer amount of space to check. Lastly the RCMP have ALWAYS kept very quiet as to the evidence that was collected. They have never let any of this information out because they (I am suspecting) will use it to capture the abductor. Lastly, there is no pond between the corner store and the place that Joanne lived.

Oh, and just a side note, the discription of the pay phone guy may have been off. She was abducted when it was dark outside (I believe) so how would one get a good look? The pay phone area was not well lit. Also, the description matches pretty much 50 percent of the young man population at the time with leather jackets and mustaches. It was the early eighties what more can you say?

Thanks for having so much passion on this thread. I hope the mystery is solved, I still carry Joanne in my heart.

Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on June 25, 2013, 08:55:02 PM
J1; it is so thoughtful of you, and appreciated..... you taking the time to read this thread and post your feelings.  That is so refreshing to see at this late point in time.  You are actually one of Joanne's peers.

Would you mind terribly if I ask you two things J?

1.  Being just a little tike yourself at that time, you must be relying on what your heard all these years, about that night, about the search etc.  Now that you are a grown up, what do you think of the idea that there was a swampy area, if not an actual pond, in close proximity to Joanne's walk that night?  ... more than a few recall going there to gather pollywogs, catch frogs etc.... is it possible you weren't one of the kids who was familiar with that... ergo missed that little timeframe of activity prior to it being filled in and/or paved over for whatever need or purpose?

2.  Is it possible you could reconnect with your siblings or neighbors from that area and find out for sure about the above.  I'm sure older people than yourself could verify whether or not there was the odd rotted part of an electric line pole (or two or more) which had left a hole/s in that swampy area... - a hole that still contained a small pile of (or at least a few large) rocks ... that seemingly tumbled in and over such a hole?
 
It seems to me that could have been a reality which very few people never even noticed ... or considered something worth remembering... therefore, overlooked such.  I am also open to the fact that such a spot and condition could have been on either side of the street, but back far enough to be out of site.  I'm thinking that if the authorities and searchers missed that, and it got filled in and/or paved over, nobody would be a bit forthcoming about such an oversight.  (that is just my opinion of course, J.) 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: J1 on June 25, 2013, 09:32:46 PM
I grew up in the area and spent much time at the corner store and surrounding areas. There really was no local pond or marsh type area. Heavily forested outside the base, yes. Marshy, no, not that I can recall. I don't recall any place where a swamp would have been? Maybe down by the Sleepy hollow/river area but that was past where J lived and it was just the river. No pond or march. Also that was 25 years ago. The amount of growth from then until now is huge so many potential places have been cleared and houses and businesses have been put in place so one would not even begin to look. The corner store was also torn down years ago. 

The only place that the teenagers may have gone to hang out is the rock quarie that was close by. It still would have been searched extensively at the time. And honestly every person in the town scoured up and down Vedder Rd and surrounding areas, searched through rocks, trees, everywhere. It was a big search and people were still out looking years after Joanne disappeared.

The only thing about this story I find suspicious is that it is only a two minute drive from the Legion to the corner store. Why it would have taken 30 minutes to get there is beyond comprehension. I am assuming the time frame is wrong as one could even run the distance in 5 minutes.

I can ask around but really there were no ponds, but if there was one and if it was close, you can trust it was searched. Rocks moved and examined. They looked and searched. Be assured.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: J1 on June 25, 2013, 09:39:17 PM
My God. 30 years ago?! Time flies for sure. I will ask my neighbors and friends and siblings about a marshy area.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on July 09, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
This question about ponds and marshy areas has been batted about for some time on here. Most locals have no recollection of any in that vicinity or so it appears. I travelled to the spot and I have spoken with some older people from back at the time. I wondered about the discrepancies I found in various accounts. There may be an answer.

The most compelling story of a pond came from Joanne's own school principle. He worked at that school for a considerable period of time. He had history in the area before that. His wife was raised in that same neighborhood around the store. They both recall a pond and the exact location of it directly behind the store only 50 yards or so away. A trail ran down to it. These people have names, are well respected long term residents, easy to find, and still alive. I have no reason to believe that they would lie to me about this for any reason.

I realize that other people keep coming on here to quite adamantly claim there was no pond and I seek to understand that discrepancy. Some time back one of our regular posters at the time had a close relative who was the head of crimestoppers around that area. This question and situation was raised to him. He quite adamantly stated there was no pond there, end of story. However the same poster who raised the issue to him was also from around that area herself and had girlfriends from back at the time who recalled even more detail. She was puzzled by her relatives stance on the pond issue and distrusted his answer as it conflicted with her own.

Apparently according to one girlfriend of our former poster who had also lived in that area, construction was taking place at the exact time Joanne disappeared on that same property where the pond was located. A bulldozer was on site at the time and the pond was filled within a very short period of time afterwards.

I wonder if the explanation for the differing stories about a pond has to do with this, the pond disappeared at the same time. The former poster from this site who provided these details is feared to have died. Joanne's former school principle and his wife are growing old yet still maintain the location of the pond was behind the store and they still reside in that area. Strange situation, the rest of officialdom claims there never was any pond .. End of story?... hmmm.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on January 23, 2014, 06:50:09 PM
nice to see you again MS....
Quote
Hopefully his conscience will get the best of him.
  What I hope is that the hearts and souls who won't speak up... and who have sat by over 30 yrs. without demanding action and truth will suffer to the point that the truth comes out finally... poor little Joanne!   :'( :'( :'( :'(  what a useless bunch who sit back doing nothing when they know something!
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: leonagleant on January 24, 2014, 09:19:21 PM
An unidentified male was seen with her in the phone booth. He was described as being a caucasian male, approximately twenty ( 20 ) to thirty ( 30 ) years old, 5'6" to 5'7" in height, slim to medium build, light to dark hair ( that was below the ears ), clean shaven and wearing a dark jacket.
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on December 02, 2014, 10:09:00 AM
I wonder if the suspect is the same man responsible for Joanne Pedersons disappearance!


**(debbiec) moved and modified to add: The arrest of 67 year old Gary Taylor Handlen has some wondering if he could be responsible for other victims. 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on December 02, 2014, 11:07:54 AM
After reading further about the 2 letters sent to police... The man Joanne was last seen with has also wrote letters to the police......
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: cana_nomad on December 02, 2014, 12:02:37 PM
Prenkels, you should submit that tip to them (if you haven't already) :)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2014, 12:32:14 PM
Check date of incarceration. The date rules him out for cases after 1979.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/suspect-in-bc-killings-well-known-to-police-in-70s-as-serial-rapist/ar-BBge164?ocid=AARDHP (http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/suspect-in-bc-killings-well-known-to-police-in-70s-as-serial-rapist/ar-BBge164?ocid=AARDHP)
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2016, 07:17:10 PM
The end has come for any more in regard T. Arnold for the murder of Joanne .. I was privy to a confession by T. Arnold for this crime in the past and eventually spoke with a prior investigator and did consent to speaking with a current RCMP investigator. I said the same to them as what is contained in this thread. It came down to the RCMP saying that they had a witness alibi for Arnold for that time period that they considered as uncontestable fact. I could not question that as it is apparently under the witness protection protocol.. 

Along the way I was able to confirm a few more things..  At the time of the crime there were many witnesses to a man supposedly helping Joanne with making a call from the phone booth beside a corner store. The car reported driven by that man was rather unique and only one was registered in that area.  T. Arnold claimed that he had stolen a car that night and returned it later but that it was him at the store in that car.  The investigators claimed that they had found and investigated the car and driver but that he had a valid alibi. That ended it for this car back then.. The cars owner was a family man, home every night, no priors, no record, wife kids etc to back him up..

It has since been verified that the location where T. Arnold would stay when in Chilliwack was right next door to the residence where the suspect car was located. That alone would seem to warrant a deeper look now but it was not to be. Some unknown source has prevented that. Something unknown trumps all else and stands in the way..

I tried, wish there was some other way but I never found it..
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: lostlinganer on October 22, 2018, 11:21:09 AM
... just throwing this in here ... from a post by wellwell.  http://aptnnews.ca/2018/07/04/exclusive-thirty-years-later-survivor-details-encounter-with-serial-killer-terry-arnold/     
As soon as I read it, I could picture Arnold roaming from a trailer park location the night Joanne went missing;  I still think he could very likely have been the guy in the car who abducted that little girl from the store that rainy night in Chilliwack.  Arnold got away with so much.  He seemed to have extra carte-blanche and untouchable in many areas, due to his ability to mingle with those like him, make a mental list of their crimes, and use it to "walk" every time he killed another girl. imho!
I am wondering if the writer who did the article on Doreena Green, made a mistake about the date? 
Title: Re: Joanne Marie PEDERSEN - Age 10 - Missing - February 19, 1983 - Chilliwack, BC
Post by: MSprenkels on February 12, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
https://www.nighttimepodcast.com/episodes/joanne-pedersen