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Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Ontario Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Locations => Topic started by: debbiec on October 08, 2012, 10:43:43 AM

Title: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 08, 2012, 10:43:43 AM
Sonia's thread has become very long and hard to navigate.

As we've done in the past with a few other cases, another thread has been created for the ongoing discussion regarding her murder.

Please continue....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 08, 2012, 11:09:39 AM
Sonia Varaschin Part 1 can be found at the link below:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3781.0


Also see: Sonia Varaschin - Timeline of Events 

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.0
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 12:55:11 PM
Of all the discussions going on, Sonia's case has continued to attract and hold the attention of most everyone who hears of her strange situation. Something about her, something about the circumstances won't let people forget. That's a good thing. There is a killer on the loose in that area and there are lingering questions about whether there are even more victims of the same perpetrator.

There are many pages of past discussion to wade through in part one much of it very interesting but thankfully there is also a facts page that helps considerably. I would encourage everyone old and new to read and refresh their knowledge before proceeding too far into our new thread. Many of the facts posted there simplify the possible theories and scenarios. Not all, but does provide a bit of a guideline. The news reports give a very good summary of what has happened to date and gives a general perspective to work from.

We left off on thread 1 reconsidering some of what we had believed correct and true in the past and the debate carried on. The complexity of the situation becomes more apparent the more you learn. The fbi and Canada's profilers are all involved.

Re quoting an earlier post I left after 145 pages of discussion on thread 1,

Quote
Funny how when all we know gets worked through, we still end up back near the start.

The same choices of suspects still from the same circumstances. The doctor and Sonia's troubles at work, a recent job change, the boyfriend, the dating site, the dispute with the noisy neighbours, and the simple fact the area itself may attract someone strange with ill intent on its own.

All we know of the neighbours was supposedly a few young fellows were renting a near by unit and were very loud. Sonia had called the Police on them. Little else known save they moved away afterwards.

There is lots of information to weed through but home was generally accepted at one time as place of death.

Not all agreed this was fact and many ideas and theories resulted. One of the strangest and hardest to understand facts centered around why Sonia was removed from her townhouse after the attack and her own car used to transport her body just a short distance away. Her car was then returned back and left just a few blocks from Sonia's home. There are pictures of the neighborhood and crime scene that are most enlightening and should be copied over to the facts thread some time soon. Hopefully with diligence, something will transpire in some way to solve Sonia's murder soon. New information, new minds, bring new ideas... How to put it all together is still anyone's guess..

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2012, 03:55:32 PM
Dannybam:  The last picture of the garage door, which was closed.  Can you be sure it was her door?
--just wondering, as I have only seen pic's of her garage with the door open. I must have missed that one.
Her home has new owners.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 08, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
Removing Sonia from her home, the scene of the crime is odd behaviour.  What could the reasons be? 

  1)  She was still alive.
  2)  He panicked when (IF) she screamed (one neighbour said he heard a scream).
  3)  He knew the family and wanted to spare them the pain of finding Sonia deceased in her home.
  4)  Sonia may have grabbed her phone, not had a chance to do anything with it, but perp thought he had to get out quick just in case
       the call did go through to 911.
  5)  He was from the neighbourhood (or town, somewhere), and wanted to distance himself and his victim from the area.
  6)  He figured it would give him more time (on the other hand, removing Sonia opened up more risks of being caught)
  7)  He was on drugs/booze/pills, or a combination, (so nothing makes sense).

Feel free to add more.



Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
8. He wanted nature to possibly get rid of evidence.
9. He is mentally ill or paranoid.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 05:06:20 PM
!0) he wanted to take her body somewhere to wash her off or to get rid of possible dna or other evidence by some mechanical means? Was not confident to leave it up to nature alone just in case she was found early?

11) He wanted to take her somewhere for some reason or purpose of his own as in what he wanted to do or was about to do was maybe interrupted by the scream which hastened his departure? 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 05:15:08 PM
What we don't know and which would be very helpful to know is what was the motive for the attack in the first place? Was there a SEXUAL COMPONENT FIRST AND FOREMOST? Or, was murder the sole intent alone? Is there evidence of overkill. Is there evidence of experience? Seems robbery has been ruled out. What the evidence really suggests is not known to us yet. For instance, If there is evidence the body was washed, I would say that was the motive to remove her. Extrapolate from there etc... with the other possibilities.. ..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 05:58:53 PM
D1
"And ps Db.. cleared by dna usually means you have been cleared so as no worry to discuss various aspects here. I get the impression you are still a little nervous of something, possibly just not a high level of trust in LE? Not that I blame you as long as this is unsolved."

As I alluded to earlier, I don't begrudge investigators any of the above-board, official investigations into me.  If there is something I could do to ease suspicions, without putting myself or my family in jeopardy, I'd gladly do it.


I seem to have lost whoever posted this:
"Could the piece on the ground be part of the door?"

I suppose it could be.  I don't imagine it is.  The piece appears to be too large for the hole, not the appropriate shape, and unless the hole was created from inside the garage, it's unlikely the piece would land outside.  Unless, this were a piece from the inside of the garage, as a result from the hole being made from the outside.  I'll post a few pictures for your consideration.



jellybean
"Are we sure that this garage door, is even Sonia's?  I don't recall seeing a picture of her home with the garage door closed.  It was always open, at least those of the crime scene.  Perhaps I missed something. ???"

See the pics below.


I like the 11 possible motives for removing the body.  I would like to further expand on reason #11, to include future visits to the body or crime scene.  Driving down the Spring St cul de sac with no other business but to drive out of it again, is suspicious.  If he wanted to "visit" Sonia later, she'd have to be elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on October 08, 2012, 06:15:47 PM
It is a person who I feel, felt great anger that night. Now whether this was anger towards Sonia or anger because of some other female who made him angry that night. This man was in a rage and whether it was against Sonia, who is to know. There could have been another female he was angry at and just came upon Sonia and took it out on her. She could have been just in the wrong place at that time. So hard to know, because what is the motive, if it isn't a boyfriend or ex???????
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 06:18:26 PM
Maybe the investigators cut that door piece out with evidence included e.g. gunshot hole, bullet??, blood, blood handprints, dent with dna evidence like piece of hair.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 06:23:35 PM
Isn't sexual assault a crime related to power?  As you say Cape, repressed anger....It seems to be insinuated that it took place in the bedroom, was Sonia sleeping and was startled.  I just can't get past a shared wall and a struggle not being heard next door. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 06:29:37 PM
Discus,
It's a very good possibility that there was evidence on the door that LE cut out. 

I have personal experience which makes the theory of a punched door more viable to me, but may not be of substance to the rest of you.  I have been asked whether I have punched doors in the past, when angry.  Which I have, when I was 15 or 16, and not since.

Sexual assault is ALWAYS about power and control.  One of the ultimate displays of dominance over someone is taking their life.  Escalating from that, desecrating their corpse, follows.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 06:39:47 PM
Motive is elusive but could be discussed in greater detail in regard each of the 11  points (so far) Each perp would have different motive and would exhibit different  traits and would leave different evidence behind in each scenario.   

Just a point from earlier that I was seeking confirmation on. I believe the sheet and blanket were found along the same road as where Sonia was found but a few miles further out. It was once assumed the blankets and sheet had been discarded after Sonia was removed from the vehicle and dropped off which would make the vehicle leaving by a different more round about route than from where he had came in.  But, it may also mean he had come in from the other end stopped there for some reason before continuing on to where he left Sonia's body. Either way it suggests he was familiar with that road and knew it to be quiet but not a dead end. I would like to place this location on our map (reposted in the facts page)
post 1851- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.msg95254#msg95254 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.msg95254#msg95254) If anyone comes across an old map or better description in the old news articles. Goes to fore-knowledge of the drop site area.   

also link was left as example how I would use the facts page..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 07:27:59 PM
Punching a wall as a means of personal release is one thing.  Punching a wall as an expression of anger, another.  Punching a wall in the presence of someone else, as a show of force or threat, is yet another.

If this indeed, did happen, and it was intended as a show of force or threat, then it was intended to accomplish something in the victim and not the perpetrator or the door.

If this didn't accomplish what was intended, to make Sonia somehow more agreeable to something (eg, silence about a doctor's behaviour, an agreement to leave the partying neighbours alone, unrequited love, etc)... violence seems to logically follow.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 07:33:37 PM
Running your engine with the entire door open will allow fumes to seep in.  Sonia,  being a nurse would likely not have done that.    The fact the house was painted and rug replaced makes me think blunt force trauma - thoughts?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 07:42:40 PM
There is no indication, evidence wise anything happened outside. The Police claim an intruder to the inside. The scene you would have to make outside during the threat stage would be likely to, would have to be considered as likely to cause a call to Police. If you show up with intent to threaten, you act out, if you show up intent on more, you sneak silently in. imo. If you have the wherewithall you separate the threat from the act to lessen risk

Anyway we do not have enough evidence either way imo. its one of those things.
Maybe there was a fan or vent installed on the door as a safety for air ventilation at one time? Cheap door piece fell out long ago? Pre Sonia's living there. I am sure someone knows the answer to this so does not warrant guessing or going too far out on a limb on that principle. Its a maybe either way til confirmed..  imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 08:03:57 PM
Looking at the house picture, there is something black on the brick wall right of the door.  What could that be? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 08:16:33 PM
D1:
"There is no indication, evidence wise anything happened outside."

There is what appears to be a hole in the garage door, shortly after the crime was found.  There is blood stained in various areas.  There is a bloody pillowcase that couldn't have been merely dropped, by it's location.  There is what appears to be a green mug on the landing.  There are tire marks in loose asphalt.

If you have any evidence that we can ponder about the inside of the home, I've missed it.


"The scene you would have to make outside during the threat stage would be likely to, would have to be considered as likely to cause a call to Police."

By their own admission, the neighbours heard fighting and tires squealing, and did nothing.


"Maybe there was a fan or vent installed on the door as a safety for air ventilation at one time? Cheap door piece fell out long ago?"

I've never seen any product marketed for a garage door, with the exception of maybe a peep-hole.  I've also never seen a garage door made up of pieces, but large panels.


"I am sure someone knows the answer to this so does not warrant guessing or going too far out on a limb on that principle. Its a maybe either way til confirmed."

Someone knows the answer to a lot of things.  The point of this discussion is to know more, to hypothesize about what could have happened, and to force more investigation into the crime.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 08:24:15 PM
Good find, Discus,

I don't know have a clue what that is.  It sure isn't a hole... hahaha.  Maybe LE have some kind of covering that they place over evidence?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 08:41:16 PM
Each black mark is at what distance from ground level?  5 ft approx garage door?  5 ft approx from first step?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 08:47:28 PM
The majority of garage doors are 7 feet high.  This black mark is just higher than the midpoint, which would make it a little over 3 1/2 feet.  If this is an 8 foot door, which are becoming more available, the mark is a little more than 4 feet high.

Sonia was 5'1", if memory serves.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 08, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
I think she was 5 1.  Very unpleasant thoughts but possible angled down a bit.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 09:24:55 PM
D1,
Through discussion and analysis, I think we've come to suspect that whatever the black blob on the garage door is, is likely to be the same as the black blob on the wall inside the landing.  Very unlikely to be a hole, but likely to be a part of the crime.

What you're describing is confirmation bias.  I'm familiar with it, and not displaying it, here.

Pillowcases do belong on beds.  Bloody pillowcases belong on bloody beds.  This particular bloody pillowcase happened to be somewhat under the bush.  Whether it was kicked there as a hasty means of "tidying" the murder scene, somehow it was pushed over by a blanket that was being dragged or it was swept over by the wind, we don't know yet.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 08, 2012, 09:49:42 PM
Wondering about the gun shot sound people had heard?  Could it possibly be a backfire from a car?
The garage door mark/hole could it be a hole that was used for a block heater cord into the garage?
Just thinking here.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 08, 2012, 09:50:45 PM
from D1:
Quote
The gunshot on the other hand was a strange thing to have been reported. Especially since we do not even know if a gun was involved. At one time we were inquiring but could not find anything on how far away the shot seemed, in what sequence with the tires and scream or anything else. Seemed an isolated little thing stuck in with little else. Would still like to know more about that. Do you have a report or the original words to refer to? Did someone say they heard or thought they may have heard?
 

from Dannybam:
Quote
We have a timeline thread, complete with sources cited... I'm sure it's in there.
 

IMO when a statement like this is made, one should include a quote or link to the article it was taken from. Too important to allow the conversation to take on a direction that may lead the thread astray. The way something is worded is very important.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 10:01:35 PM
There are possibilities but this is not a new building nor was Sonia the original owner. Not everything seen can be ascribed as belonging to the events and time we are looking at.

Quote
Very unlikely to be a hole, but likely to be a part of the crime.

in your opinion that is, we usually state that to avoid this sort of thing and prevent it being taken more as fact than it is by the next party reading here.

And we respond in context. You were making the case for some sort of confrontation happening outdoors and cited the cup and various items found outside to support the theory. I was responding to that point nothing else.

Db
reply 19

Quote
D1:
"There is no indication, evidence wise anything happened outside."
db-
There is what appears to be a hole in the garage door, shortly after the crime was found.  There is blood stained in various areas.  There is a bloody pillowcase that couldn't have been merely dropped, by it's location.  There is what appears to be a green mug on the landing.  There are tire marks in loose asphalt.

If you have any evidence that we can ponder about the inside of the home, I've missed it.

I responded with the pillowcase being among the items found outside belonging indoors. Not outdoors. The pillowcase  being the blood covered item, more likely (imo) to have been brought with the blood from in doors.

you responded Db-

Quote
Pillowcases do belong on beds.  Bloody pillowcases belong on bloody beds.  This particular bloody pillowcase happened to be somewhat under the bush.  Whether it was kicked there as a hasty means of "tidying" the murder scene, somehow it was pushed over by a blanket that was being dragged or it was swept over by the wind, we don't know yet.


We know the brunt of the blood, the heavy volume spoken of by LE was found indoors. The evidence is the attack took place indoors, evidence from inside, pillow case and blankets, both bloody were all brought outside with blood, not the other way around. Therfore, back to original context of comment-

Db
reply 19

Quote
D1:
"There is no indication, evidence wise anything happened outside."

There is what appears to be a hole in the garage door, shortly after the crime was found.  There is blood stained in various areas.  There is a bloody pillowcase that couldn't have been merely dropped, by it's location.  There is what appears to be a green mug on the landing.  There are tire marks in loose asphalt.

If you have any evidence that we can ponder about the inside of the home, I've missed it.[/quote]

No you didn't. Just looking at the same thing in different ways.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 10:28:52 PM
D1,

I haven't ascribed the black marks as definitively belonging to the crime.  I said they are likely to be part of the crime... and they are.

I was making the case for some kind of unknown activity outside.  I hypothesized a confrontation outside could have happened and attempted to support that hypothesis.  Yes.

My only observation about the pillowcase is that it was found under the bush, and that it couldn't have been dropped to have landed there. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 08, 2012, 10:38:04 PM
Everyone---regarding the pillowcase my thought is that it was probably picked up with the rest of the bedding and the body and it fell out as the perp carried Sonia out to the car. The perp probably didn't notice it as he was too concerned about what he was doing and getting away without detection. IMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 08, 2012, 10:44:38 PM
I think you're probably right, JooJoo... and the wind may have helped it move over slightly, to get under the bush.  It wasn't tucked under terribly far.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 10:48:00 PM

Gunshot discussion has been modified-
When it was said-
Quote
By their own admission, the neighbours heard at least one "gunshot", and did nothing.

We aren't so sure of that, especially in that context.. If you have a different source than we have seen or read, we ask you to provide that. If not we are informing you and any one else reading, that it might not quite be all that true.
 
 We would all like the new thread kept as close to fact as possible. I know you didn't meant to do otherwise and just took what you read somewhere and posted it here. But how do we know you haven't read some new report we haven't seen less we ask?
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 08, 2012, 11:02:06 PM
I think you're probably right, JooJoo... and the wind may have helped it move over slightly, to get under the bush.  It wasn't tucked under terribly far.
The wind may have done it but likely it was pushed there by the movements of the perp trying to carry/drag Sonia down the porch steps. IMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 08, 2012, 11:52:14 PM
Tip -
if you type in any term like "gunshot" into the search box at the top of the page, and you place quotation "marks" around the term, all references will be brought up. To get more relevant results, type the term into the search box displayed at the top of the specific thread you wish to search. In this case both Sonia's thread one and the facts page are worth searching..

The "same" works for anything you wish to search for on this site. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2012, 12:02:49 AM
There are about four posts and some different takes on the gunshot report. Basis seems to be a report called in the day before, not the day Sonia went missing. Then that was picked up by another poster and repeated more as fact. Then JB researched it and said there was no report for the same day... dicussion continued but nothing other than the one neighbour thought a shot ws heard. Another neighbour saying wrong day.. So unless you want to go for a drive, chat with neighbors, do a little building inspection while you are there, we don't have anything new to go on.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 09, 2012, 12:31:04 AM
"Her mother, Michele Varaschin, said her daughter is single and has no children."

taken from:  http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/854763--missing-woman-may-be-linked-to-bloody-crime-scene


I'm not much the marrying kind.  I don't much care for titles, either.  Did Michele Varaschin mean to imply that Sonia had no boyfriend, or just that she was unmarried?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 09, 2012, 12:51:37 AM
This report clearly represents that there was "spatter" in Sonia's car.  Spatter is consistent with flying blood, ie, cast-off from a fist or weapon, spurting from an arterial wound, etc.

http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2010-09-02/Front_Page/Foul_play_seen_in_nurses_disappearance.html

Unless in the case of a rage-filled overkill, how could this not indicate that Sonia was alive in the car for part of the attack, whether pre or post townhouse?

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Matty_46 on October 09, 2012, 02:13:48 AM
Maybe she was still alive. What if the killer moved her because he thought she was dead, so he wraps her up in the bedding and puts her in the trunk, maybe he gets to the dump site and opens the trunk to find shes clinging to life and he has to finish the job. So he dumps her, and starts driving back. It would be helpful to know where the "spatter" was located, in the trunk or the cabin of the car. I dont think Ive seen anything that shows she was anywhere but the trunk after being removed from the townhouse, and with the killer likely in a hurry disposed of her very shortly after putting her in the trunk in the first place it just dont make sense she was in the actual car. If its true that she was only in the trunk and the killer the only one in the car, and there is in fact blood spatter in the cabin, maybe the driver was angry or panicked and was punching the steering wheel in frustration. It was said the individual would have been covered in blood after the initial attack at the house, maybe he was soaked in blood, especially around the sleeves and was pounding the wheel or dash.

Police said early when it was a disappearance that its possible she did not survive the initial attack, but if very shortly after the attack he packs her and leaves right away, it looks to be a 15-20 minute drive to the dump site, it is possible she was hanging on to dear life. I could see it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 02:15:57 AM
Where is the pillow that we assume the pillow case was covering?  Yes grab the sheets off bed; but pillow case fall off pillow on its own?  Mine are a little too dryer shrunk to slip off on their own accord. 
Maybe crime started outdoors and continued into house.

The article says body parts, where did that come from?  It clearly says spatter at least twice.

Couldn't a block heater cord easily slip under the garage door cracked open a tad? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 09, 2012, 02:54:29 AM
Discus,
That's a fine point.  How did that pillowcase come free of it's pillow?  Could it have been placed over Sonia's head to ease the killer's remorse?  If so, was it pre or post-mortem?

The article does say body parts.  Some say that it was a poor choice of wording by a police officer, and not meaning to imply that there is evidence of dismemberment.  Also, after that amount of time, it is possible that animals could have separated the body.  If it was just a poor turn of phrase... how poor indeed!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on October 09, 2012, 03:05:06 AM
Could that dark rectangular object be an intercom monitoring system? The back of the garage cannot be viewed from the house it seems, the way the garage is set out and some people do have intercoms where they don't have a visual. The reason for not being centered would be because the wires/chains etc run along the middle up and down inside, with some types of automatic garage door openers.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 09, 2012, 03:15:44 AM
It's possible, SAP, but I'm not sure it's likely. 

An intercom posted there may or may not have clearance when the door is raised or lowered.  I can't think of what purpose an intercom attached to a garage door would serve.  The other black blob on the wall in the landing would be more likely to be an intercom, but somehow it's placement doesn't seem right, either.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on October 09, 2012, 05:20:38 AM
Danny, on second thought, I agree. Intercoms are mounted on solid fixtures, not movable.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 05:32:06 AM
The intercomm would be situated closer to the opening of the door.   Notice the blood on the step is all on the right side.   The blood on the pillow case is most saturated in one area.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 09, 2012, 09:03:06 AM
Where is the pillow that we assume the pillow case was covering?  Yes grab the sheets off bed; but pillow case fall off pillow on its own?  Mine are a little too dryer shrunk to slip off on their own accord. 
Maybe crime started outdoors and continued into house.

The article says body parts, where did that come from?  It clearly says spatter at least twice.

Couldn't a block heater cord easily slip under the garage door cracked open a tad?

Thanks discus......the pillowcase could possibly have been removed during a struggle which we are not sure of and is one theory.  Regarding the block heater-some people do not like to have the electical cord sitting on the ground as when it snows they can't locate it and they don't want to have moisture near electricity so they will make an adaptation. However we (posters) do not know what that black mark on the garage door is at this time.   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 09, 2012, 09:48:13 AM
After looking at the maps---I am wondering if the perp removed Sonia's body because he wanted a time lapse between her missing and then the confirmed murder?  If he had met her at a pub/restaurant in the afternoon or evening his car would have been noted possibly by others---but if a week had lapsed the public would not easily recall which day they saw which car. Also staff at a pub/restaurant would have the same recall difficulty. Was Greenhawk opened on the Sunday? If not parking around there by the perp with his car would have gone less noticed too. The more I follow this crime---the more I think the perp may have murdered in anger/passion but had the mind later to plan things to cover his tracks. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 09:53:53 AM
Yes like refusing to invite him in.    Did we figure out what time the bar closes at?  1 or 2?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 09:57:14 AM
Quote joojoo: I am wondering if the perp removed Sonia's body because he wanted a time lapse between her missing and then the confirmed murder? 

This was exactly my take on it a long while ago/jb

But that should not negate the possibility that he lived very close to her area, and wanted to remove her from the area to distance himself from his horrific crime.

Air Conditioner?  Is that an outdoor air conditioning unit beside her house? (thanks db for the pic)
Very important to know.
and - I do no not see a mailbox?   How come?

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 10:15:34 AM
Looks like ac or heat pump.  If ac, may not be using it at end of August.  Super mail box possibly in the neighborhood for mail delivery?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2012, 10:30:47 AM
Minor point,
the actual quote from the reporter re the blood spatter was-
Her blood-spattered Toyota No distinction made between spatter being inside or out. I would assume i was a reference to the outside myself by the pictures and description. And, it is just a reporter's term, not an actual official forensic blood spatter definition.

Thanks for the link- Db 
http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2010-09-02/Front_Page/Foul_play_seen_in_nurses_disappearance.html (http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2010-09-02/Front_Page/Foul_play_seen_in_nurses_disappearance.html)

Quote
Her blood-spattered Toyota Corolla was discovered Monday by the alley at the east side of the town hall, reportedly with its front doors and truck open. A news release said blood was also found in her apartment, and a television newscast said blood was found on the handle of her townhouse entrance door.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 10:46:46 AM
Re: Blood on handle of front door.  That is there because he closed the door behind him. Thanks D!
When all flooring was replaced, I am assuming that it had to be because of the crime scene.
I will have to come back and modify this to include the link re: replaced the flooring.
Here it is;  http://www.orangeville.com/news/local/article/1082197--varaschin-s-home-sold-buyer-unaware-of-history
Although the two-storey townhouse has been re-painted, and new flooring installed, Marcuz can’t shake the images of police tape, blood on the steps and officers walking in and out of the home she recently saw on the news out of her head.

Questioning - Whether she had a door from home into garage.  He didn't use it. So he took the risk of taking her out into the open?  Is it possible that he didn't have any other option? No door leading into the garage?

Air conditioner?  It was a terrible heat wave that weekend.  I remember researching that.  According to a Toroto TV station, it broke heat records for about 3 days.
She would have had that air conditioning ON. (IMO)
I don't know how (outdoor airconditioning units work) - if they are very effective in a two story townhouse.
Anyone have any experience with these?

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2012, 11:47:37 AM
I believe in the past, we had been led to believe there was no connecting door to the garage.

The outdoor ac units are good if big enough and in good shape. They can be noisy especially the older ones which would help to muffle and disguise some noise. If not that efficient would windows and doors get left open?

Re the gunshot the day before, dependant upon degree of planning and premeditation? Could the gunshot have been a test of Police response time?

Re the location Sonia was found.. if you zoom in and look around that spot on the google map, you see a side road and a parking spot made to order off the right hand side that may be out of sight any possible traffic. Le has said they believe the perp to be very familiar with that area.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103309402336490999288.00048f8d1be3b84c5c24f (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103309402336490999288.00048f8d1be3b84c5c24f)

LE also claims they have a belief the perp may have been on a dating site. Sonia was missing most that day, her whereabouts unaccounted for. If an innocent meeting with an Innocent party, should that party not have come forward and said so by now? Sonia appears a very sociable person and I am assuming she did not go off doing things alone for any reason especially after telling family she would be elsewhere. 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 11:50:19 AM
JB, ac works in 2 stories - basement cold, main floor comfy,  2nd floor not As cool as main floor.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 12:11:01 PM
Re: AC - thanks :)
37 minute drive to where she was dropped off and car parked?  That is some drive.
I can't get into the map, all that I can see is the map itself - will have to play with it.
I do know that there was a retaining wall further in, which belonged to a residence.  I will try and find that link.
(Here is a link - not the one that I was looking for, but close enough to give you an idea) There was a residence there.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/locals-fear-mounting-body-count-in-idyllic-corner-of-gta/article4210398/

 She was on the other side of it. Her "spot" was in a wooded area, further in off the road, with swamp and bullrushes.  So the perp still had a distance to carry her from the car to where he left her.
At times, I often wonder if he had some help. (sorry, I can't help myself, but perhaps another person was involved in helping with the disposing of her, somewhere along this terrible journey.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2012, 12:19:35 PM
on the left side of the map, double click the icon that represents where her body was found. Then you can zoom in and look around.

Distance and terrain can be viewed. Valuable for size estimate of suspect, familiarity etc..

The spot chosen does seem to be only a temporary place holder as if not planned to hide her forever. as opposed burying her in the swamp.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 09, 2012, 12:26:50 PM
Thanks JB-----do you know how far it is from where the car was parked off the road to where they found Sonia?  The perp would  possibly have been able to carry/drag the body if he in fact had already shown the strength to carry her down stairs, put her in a car, etc.  and in a panic had increased strength. If another person was slightly involved wouldn't he have come forward by now? imo There must be some clues to get a break in this case soon.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 12:44:49 PM
Joojoo: The distance from the road was never given, except that if you looked close enough from the road, you can see the white cross which has been place there from friends.  So, she would not necessarily be visible from the road.  A walker with his/her dog discovered her. Yes, as you say,  he may well have dragged her there himself.
Yes D1, it seems that he did not really attempt to hide her very well.
That is what makes me feel that he was in a state of panic, and had to remove her remains from her home.  To him, that was imperative, to get her out of her home. That was first and foremost on his mind.

I have the impression that where he left her was secondary to him - just get her out of town into a wooded area -
There were apparently other roads closer by, and yet he chose that one.  I wonder if that road had more woods? - And it has been said that one could be on that road and never see another vehicle, and he may have known that. LE say that the perp knew that area, either through work, recreation or illegal activity.
Will look at the map - thanks!
JB
ps:  Another BIG QUESTION that I have.  If it was imperative that he remove her from home and he used her car.  Why not just abandon her car with her in it?  Why drive it back to Orangeville?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 01:47:43 PM
He had to get to the isolated area somehow and back to his own car/bus.   If he had left his car there it means he would have had to walk into town and wasn't that energetic.  I think he's accountable to someone and that's why he didn't involve his own car. 
Have we looked at the bus schedule at that time of night?   I don't think I can see him waiting for a bus - a vulnerable position.   
As far as the cover of the  woods go, reminds me of other cases - a woman was found deceased behind a college in the woods; burned on a path.    The woods seem to offer slot of security for criminals: Abducted from a wooded bike path, murdered; abducted from a wooded walking path in the suburbs and murdered in a house. 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on October 09, 2012, 02:45:09 PM
Quote
Air Conditioner?  Is that an outdoor air conditioning unit beside her house?

If the unit is approx 2.5' by 2.5' by 2.5' ... they work very well. If regularly maintained they don't make alot of noise (nothing more than a loud hum), and they are very efficient for cooling all levels including upstairs.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 02:55:53 PM
Discus:  I can't picture this guy bussing, around 4 am on a Monday.  He would be covered in blood.
He may have lived in Orangeville though, and walked back home, provided it was a short distance.  It would still be somewhat dark, albeit the sun may have been coming up (not sure about down east as to sunrise in the late August.) I think the killer (am coming to my own conclusion here, either lived in Orangeville or Caledon) - not Barrie, not Toronto etc.
A very local individual. Just my opinion - others may have counter thoughts.
Why?  He knew that there were no cameras as to where he parked her car. The entrance way to the parking lot which he used did not have a camera.  The second entrance way did have a camera.
So he used the first.

2- he knew enough about the route to Beechgrove sideroad that he could drive it in very low beam.
Probably knew that route so well, that he could drive it blind folded.

3. He knew enough about the cops, their usual Sunday routes, early a.m routes, and therefore was not afraid of even being stopped. Note: he drove her there, and drove back (with blood outside of her car).  Confidence that the cops would not be patrolling at that time or hour on his route to Beechgrove Sideroad.

That is what makes me think that he probably lived in Orangeville or Caledon.

JB - Thanks SAP for your post on AC. Sorry, I posted at the same time.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on October 09, 2012, 03:56:46 PM
I think the term blood spattered was used by the media not the Le so I believe it was just a choice of words for the article writer as opposed to a fact.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2012, 04:33:18 PM
CORRECTION;  Sonia was found Beechgrove Side Road at Mountainview Road. I always refer to it as just Beechgrove Side Road. I think we have a map of this on Thread #1 submitted by Mom, and it might also be in Timeline.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 09, 2012, 04:45:59 PM
Picture of Sonia's house taken from Toronto Star website story on "unaware buyer", which shows what looks like a repair to the garage door.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1062218--buyer-unaware-of-orangeville-home-s-grim-history-abandons-sale#comments

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Thanks Dew, great find.  Painted repair in same paint but not faded in colour like the rest of the door. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 09, 2012, 05:05:42 PM
I don't think that's a "cup" on Sonia's front steps, it looks more like a plastic plant container, void of its plant.   It would fit that there might be one of those left on the front verandah and that it could be possibly knocked over during the perp's exit.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 09, 2012, 05:28:55 PM
  I can still see that black thing on the side of the wall.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 09, 2012, 06:30:57 PM
CORRECTION;  Sonia was found Beechgrove Side Road at Mountainview Road. I always refer to it as just Beechgrove Side Road. I think we have a map of this on Thread #1 submitted by Mom, and it might also be in Timeline.

JB

Looking on the map---Beechgrove Sideroad connects to Airport Road and this goes through to the Toronto International Airport where there are lots of hotels. Was the FBI called in because they think there is a connection to this? Maybe a convention and someone was on dating sites? Wonder if LE checked into special events going on at that time and guests?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Coral on October 09, 2012, 07:14:34 PM
In the previous thread, there were photos of Sonia's home with an upstairs window open.  I wonder if she would have the air conditioner running if she opened the window?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2012, 11:50:07 PM
JB says it was hot out at the time. how hot? How well was the ac working?

It is 11.8 miles from Sonia's home to where Sonia's body was found. 17 minutes depending upon route but similar distances. This seems fastest, but not as quiet as straight up beachgrove. new link to come-

This is the parking spot off the side of where Sonia's body was found. There are not many of these sort of private spots along that road. Have to use zoom and look around the treed areas to see this is a bit rare.

In some ways, I thought of Sveltka the edmonton killer and the sort of spots he took the girls he killed. But, his victims were picked up and willing went, Sonia was taken unwillingly and just left there. But the question who knew of, or looked for, or used that type of spot, and for what, is relevant to the discussion. I'm not sure how easy this would be to spot from the road at night. Perhaps thats why the Police say the perp had to know the area well. He knew where he was going.. and... he could park out of sight. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 10, 2012, 03:28:50 AM
So, Sonia's body was found within the 12 mile radius you spoke of in Natasha's thread, jellybean.  You had mentioned that the FBI says a majority (86%) of victims are disposed of within 12 miles of the crime scene.

If the perp used the driveway to park, My first thought was then it is kindof strange that he left Sonia's body closer to the main road of Beechgrove, rather than the driveway, but then I think...why not?  Less chance of a pedestrian.  But he was wrong, a pedestrian found her.

Not sure if Beechgrove is even wide enough to pull over onto the shoulder....anyone else know?  Some secondary roads aren't wide enough to pull over on without partially blocking the lane.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on October 10, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
Beech Grove Sideroad is like most gravel side roads, wide enough that you could pull over without blocking traffic. But there is little traffic on that section of Beech Grove, as most locals prefer to use the main north/south (Highway 10/Airport Road) or east/west roads (Highway 9 or Charleston Road). Unless you are a farmer or live on one of the sideroads.  So yes, I agree that it would have been someone familiar with the sideroads of Caledon.


Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 10, 2012, 07:41:44 AM
An enhanced image of the repaired garage door and remaining black "something" on the landing wall.  I've posted this and the original to the timeline/facts board, credit to Dew of course.

By it's presence, I think we can conclude that whatever that thing on the wall leading into the home is, it's not evidence, and not out of place, or it would have been removed for resale.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 10, 2012, 07:47:45 AM
Aug. 29, 2010 was very hot and QUITE humid right up until late evening, by my recollection. 

To check weather for that date, go to the following link and search "Orangeville ON, Aug 29, 2010".  (It will show the weather reported in Elora, which is close.)

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/index.php?product=historical&placecode=caon0505


I would imagine Sonia had her window closed and a/c on, if there was a/c.  I think it was breezy that night, but keeping the windows shut to keep the humidity out is the thing to do, even without a/c.

EDIT:  change date to Aug 29 from Aug. 30
EDIT:  clarify Weather Network link information
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 10, 2012, 07:54:01 AM
Dannybam, thanks for that.

Re the "thing" on the side of the garage, perhaps it is an opening device?  If there's no door to the interior from the garage, this is the control?  (btw, I don't believe there's a door to the interior...I recall seeing a CTV video reporting (which I can't find now) on the day Sonia went missing.  It showed the officers - without shoe coverings - walking the property, and one officer standing in the garage, scratching his head, literally.  There was no door, iirc.)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 08:29:29 AM
A keypad entry for the garage door?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 10, 2012, 08:58:33 AM
Yeah, Dew,

I don't know what that little black thing could be.  I don't have anything mounted outside of my doors.  I guess it could be a button for the garage door.  It's possibly a magnet-operated lock control for the front door.  A swipey thng.  If that were true it could have made access into the townhouse after an assault much easier.

It seems some links and materials have gone missing from various websites.  Do we know if anyone has made a kind of online collection of videos, articles and photos?  I'd like to have a view of the back of the building, for example, but it's nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 10, 2012, 09:19:51 AM
Dannybam, so weird you would ask about the back of the buildings...I was just looking for an archived listing for Sonia's property, and found this so far:

It's a 2009? listing for Unit No. 20 and might be useful.

http://www.century21.ca/Property/ON/L9W_1M8/Orangeville/Spring_20/5

(I cannot figure out how to capture the pics from that listing.)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 10, 2012, 09:29:09 AM
Discus, sorry, the search submission doesn't link apparently.  One would have to search "Orangeville Aug 29 2010". 

I'll edit my post.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on October 10, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
It was very hot and humid that day. Toronto was under a heat alert. Just google" Toronto weather August 29,2010"
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 10:08:19 AM
Sorry, my mistake - was in 2012 - temp was 30.
I would likely have ac on in my house at that temp plus humidity, heat rises therefore hot upstairs.  However my main floor would be freezing, and my 2nd floor just comfortable, so not economical as AC would be cranked.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 11:41:58 AM
At last we are getting some place on Sonia's thread.  Just spinning wheels in some aspects, prior to so many of you
joining in and contributing.  This is wonderful!! :)
- FBI - theory is correct (12 mile radius)  Thanks D1 for the great work re: the math.
Should I check  see if this radius applies to serial killers - and perhaps we can be confident that perhaps he is not one?
Perhaps look at various profiles of killers. Example is it possible he has a juvenile record? Has he shown violence towards a woman prior - but not charged?

The AC unit: She had a quilt on her, so I imagine that it was needed.  So AC probably was on.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the AC unit.
Open window - perhaps the cops opened it, as it was too warm in there for them with uniforms on etc.
(This would not surprise me)

Dew:  Re; cops going in and out without foot coverings.  We suspected that they contaminated much of it by doing so.
Thanks for adding this to Sonia's thread.  Invaluable info right there!

Deb R - Describing Beech Grove Side Road is also invaluable.  Pictures do not always show much.  Eyes can see alot!
Deb R - how far in from the road is Sonia's Memorial?  Do you know?

Thanks for finding Unit 20 - It is not the complete posting, at least not the one which has recently disappeared and shown as sold.  The most recent one did show all of the rooms, including stairway and front hallway etc.

These complexes have a Condominium Association.
I will try and find the link again, previously posted, whereby they went to City Council and requested a security fence back of there, as people were trespassing thru and safety and privacy became their concern after Sonia's murder.
Mom reported that the security fence was approved.

Jobo - thanks for your list as to reasons why he may have removed her body.  Each point makes sense.  Also Dannybam, adding point 11 is a good one.

JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 10, 2012, 01:31:55 PM
Just going back to the Tim Horton's regarding a possible connection with blood in the washroom. I talked with my daughter again regarding the chance of someone going in undetected at night. She said that around 3-5am is very slow, possibly someone could enter and exit but the places where she has worked the cameras are on the tills and on the doors so the perp should have been captured on a camera if he entered the TH after the crime...and there shouldn't be much traffic in the store so it should be possible to figure out the individual. Hopefully LE has information to this effect.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 10, 2012, 02:01:55 PM
Thanks joojoo, any way to know how long they keep the tapes? I recall at one time 7 eleven claimed their cameras were on a 24 hour recording loop. So if there were a few days between the incident and when LE may have even checked the location, would a tape of that day still exist?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 02:16:10 PM
Quite often our police department will post pics of the perps from robberies etc. on their websites requesting help from the public.  Quite often they are barely identifiable.  The police have never released any details on the perps appearance that I am aware of.   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 10, 2012, 02:26:14 PM
Yes like refusing to invite him in.    Did we figure out what time the bar closes at?  1 or 2?
Discus---the Greystone Inn that was mentioned as being close to where Sonia's car was found had hours on Sunday listed 5-10pm in Spring Hours--I'm not sure if summer hours were later. There are also bookings for small parties----wonder if these were checked out by LE for the afternoon/evening of Sunday, August 29, 2010?  If Sonia had been there and the closing was at 10pm--possibly the perp followed her home with or without her knowing.  imo
 Here is the link to their site. http://www.greystonesinn.com/
 Hopefully some of the ideas discussed here will help solve this case.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 02:56:28 PM
There is also TJ Hangar Sports Bar, on Broadway, not far from Tim Horton's according to one poster.
Its address is 35 Broadway.

http://www.tjshangar.com/

Late nites are offered there.

JB
Sounds like a fun bar  ;)- Menu looks good too!  :D Great music if you like the Western type.
It is toe tapping.
 ;D
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 03:04:45 PM
That bar is a late nighter.  According to comments in the Orangeville paper website.  Cops are there continually.
Very busy place.
Not all Western music either.  They have different bands and dancing of course.
I am not even suggesting that Sonia would go there. But it could have been a favorite watering hole for the killer!!

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 03:17:15 PM
Yes and on the website it has links to the local sports teams etc...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on October 10, 2012, 03:30:59 PM
Jellybean, good question.....No, I don't know how far in from the road to the place where Sonia's remains were found. I will take a walk down there next time I'm on Beech Grove Road and post it.

Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 04:16:31 PM
Deb R - Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 10, 2012, 04:19:26 PM
Thanks joojoo, any way to know how long they keep the tapes? I recall at one time 7 eleven claimed their cameras were on a 24 hour recording loop. So if there were a few days between the incident and when LE may have even checked the location, would a tape of that day still exist?

D1-
Consulted my daughter---she said that it may depend on the store but where she has worked the cameras are even hooked up to the manager's & owner's homes so they can watch from their computers. She thought they are saved as files or on discs but not sure the length of time. Also if someone came in with blood visible they call LE as it is not acceptable in a place where food is served. If employees find blood, vandalism etc. they are suppose to inform supervisor/manager during shift so proper measures are taken. Would be interesting to know if LE have a lead from the TH.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 05:57:57 PM
Can you see him going into TH to clean up?  He would have been covered in blood.  I think that someone who worked at TH's did clean up blood in the men's washroom - perhaps the sink.  But that could have been left there by someone who had a fight outside or in the back.  Just washing of hands, and perhaps a nosebleed, or some such thing.
It was posted on a facebook, and it was 2nd or third hand. It was not by an actual employee of TH.  So that leaves me to wonder.
Dunno.

Jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 06:41:24 PM
Apparently they took a garbage pail from timmies?  They were looking for something.  Maybe it was all coincidence; the blood was from something else entirely, if it even existed.    Obviously the video if it exists is not adequate enough to prove positive identification.   As far as spying on the employees with a live link camera; sounds like a violation of privacy.   If he did leave evidence in timmies, it was cleaned up. 
I'm surprised, if it was still dark; why he didn't try to cover Sonia up, or bury her- make it more difficult. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on October 10, 2012, 06:57:52 PM
Just going back to the Tim Horton's regarding a possible connection with blood in the washroom. I talked with my daughter again regarding the chance of someone going in undetected at night. She said that around 3-5am is very slow, possibly someone could enter and exit but the places where she has worked the cameras are on the tills and on the doors so the perp should have been captured on a camera if he entered the TH after the crime...and there shouldn't be much traffic in the store so it should be possible to figure out the individual. Hopefully LE has information to this effect.
I had discussed this part recently and asked was this a confirmed notation related to the blood that night at Tim's. I believe that was not confirmed and that it was not true. I vaguely remember this being discounted long ago in the first thread of Sonia's case.
And just to add to this, if there was video of anyone entering Tim's, it defniitely would be clear enough to see. The Tim's down here, you'd be hard pressed to get in there without any video being clear as a bell as to who you were. I don't think that story about Tim's was related to do with Sonia's case, just my opinion. Because if it was, they'd have the person in custody by now.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2012, 09:00:13 PM
You are right Cape. It was felt that TH was probably not involved,
And as you said this killer is dangerous.  He was called a cold blooded killer by the profilers.

Dating Sites:Sonia shared pictures and gave personal info about herself on dating sites. Many women do.
Here is a site profiling stalkers who murder.
http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect06a.htm
This is a serious article, and I want to highlight one part that gives me the chills.

 Rossmo (2000) then discusses the target locations that offenders often have in mind. They usually have have considered five locations: (1) victim encounter; (2) point of first attack; (3) murder scene; (4) body dump site; and (5) vehicle or property dump site.
He uses the anagram of EAMD: encounter, attack, murder, dump. These sites are also where most of the physical evidence in a particular case will be found.
The method of body disposal is usually a function of criminal experience and offender concerns about scientific evidence.

Characteristics of the offender can be indicated, then, by the location and manner in which the body is dumped. Other information, possibly even the offender's fantasy component of their motivation, can also be gleamed from the dump site. Rossmo (2000) provides the following information from George Barrett in an unpublished Master's Thesis from 1990:

"The method of handling and leaving the victim's body will also offer insight into the victim's relationship to the killer. A victim left clothed or in an area allowing easy discovery suggest that she was 'loved' by the killer. A well-treated, and easily found victim may also signify a killer who has a religious upbringing and who does not feel a rage directed at the victim or society. A victim who is left in a remote area with no care taken to bury the body suggests that the killer had little regard for her. Once she served his needs he only sought to dispose of her to avoid detection. It also suggests that the killer admits that he will continue to kill and that he hopes to deter police recognition of his activity. Victims left in a public location, dismembered or mutilated are intended to shock both the community and the intended target."

    Further, a murderer carrying a dead victim has certain time, distance, speed and effort constraints. Given these constraints (unless the victim is very light), a human body is unlikely to be carried more than 150 feet from a murder site to a dump site. An adult body dumped in a remote site is also usually found within fifty feet of a road or trail. Geographic profiling attempts to further quantify factors such as these.  Geographic profiling has the advantage of being able to demonstrate its efficacy (because it uses quantitative inputs) better than other methods which rely on qualitative interpretation.

JB
 


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 10, 2012, 11:58:42 PM
Thank you JB.  "Little regard for her". Would this include perps known to her and not particularly fond of her?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 11, 2012, 04:00:36 AM
A victim who is left in a remote area with no care taken to bury the body suggests that the killer had little regard for her. Once she served his needs he only sought to dispose of her to avoid detection. It also suggests that the killer admits that he will continue to kill and that he hopes to deter police recognition of his activity.

Little regard for her, and some suggestion that he intends to kill again.  I believe I read that as of January 2012, there had been eight bodies found in the Caledon area in the last four and a half years:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1110538--caledon-becoming-a-dumping-ground-for-murderers
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 11, 2012, 04:20:09 AM
Enlarged. 


Is there a public list of victimology for the eight victims?  Ages, sexes, body-types, names, addresses, conditions of bodies, etc?  I won't do the homework if it's already been done.

I'm sure it hasn't escaped anyone that if Sonia had been left on the other side of Highway 10, those sites would form a near-perfect circle. 

This looks like something from a tv drama.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 11, 2012, 08:06:47 AM
Thanks, Discus.

That should keep me busy for the next 3 months.  Oi vey.


Kera Freeland's case seems to have a couple of possible similarities.

The Lindo's could only be related to the case(s) if Mr. Lindo was the serial killer.  That would've been interesting... but he was 70.

I can't find any pics of Maria Louisa DaCunha, and the information surrounding her is sparse.  Probably intentionally tight-lipped investigators.

Veronica Kaye's case is so much older than the others... and doesn't fit the timeline for this story.








Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 11, 2012, 08:27:32 AM
Starting with Kera, I find Sonia and Keera kind of look alike.
http://victoriastaffordapsychicinvestigation.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/linking-cases-caledon-on-sonia-varashin-and-kera-freeland-womans-remains-found-thurs-mar-17-2011-6-pm-heart-lake-road/

Danny:  winter is long here!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 09:46:09 AM
quoted from article:

Further, a murderer carrying a dead victim has certain time, distance, speed and effort constraints. Given these constraints (unless the victim is very light), a human body is unlikely to be carried more than 150 feet from a murder site to a dump site. An adult body dumped in a remote site is also usually found within fifty feet of a road or trail.

I wonder if she was placed within  fifty feet off the road. I don't live there, but am having difficulty  in thinking that she was left in a remote area.  There were a few houses there. In fact she was close to a person's property. Also, she was placed within an area where she would not necessarily be visible from the road - Would that be considered as hiding her? :-\

Input on these questions would be most appreciated by me.
I look forward to learning if her site is about 50 feet off of the road.
Anyone can stalk - visually - someone living in her area and noticing her routine, coming and goings etc. JMO
This does not  mean that he is a serial killer. Perhaps he was fascinatd with her, and believed that she liked him, simply because she would smile at him (that 1,000 watt smile as has been said by many who knew her)
Plus she had a kind, gentle and caring demeanor.  She would be a target for someone who has fantasies.

Back to topic re: Caledon area - dumping of bodies.  Have they not all been solved with the exception of Sonia and Kera? :-\




JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 11, 2012, 01:47:26 PM
JB, there are a few houses; but it is still quite isolated.   
The stalk factor, have all Sonia's neighbours been checked out?  Of course this is a small town, so that could include alot of people. 

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a453c4ca-e9f7-45f7-aaab-af4a1708a389

Jennifer was in a similar location. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 11, 2012, 03:04:11 PM
In the article about Kera you find this quote:
Quote
But two days after her disappearance in what police are calling a sexually motivated crime, an exhaustive police canvass had officers knocking on every door, even the one to Kevin Davis's home in the shadow of the church where police had set up their command post.

They can tell the motive and did so for Kera, why not for Sonia?

The location chosen as well the particulars are telling. They seem to be a mix of the various aspects spoken of by JB.

The point on the google map does not quite show the exact location where Sonia was found. Hopefully we will be able to place a better marker on a map. As far as I know, the parking spot off the side road is likely the location where he turned around or maybe even from which she would be carried from. That spot is only a few hundred feet at best off the main gravel road. I believe the killer would have gone further up the side road, (maybe even carrying Sonia) then off the side. There sees to be a residence further up as if this is a long driveway. Off the side I believe there is a retaining wall sort of thing dividing the driveway from the area where Sonia was found. I do not believe she was hidden well after she was dropped behind there. So the location would have to be considered as having both aspects of hidden and just dumped off. She was likely within 50 feet to 150 feet or so of a driveway. There is or was supposedly a marker. Someone local may be able to give a better approximation.

Google earth adds a few more points into the mix such as the terrain isn't exactly flat and may have dictated some of what we see. It was questioned why not drop her off right behind where that little pullout spot is located? It maybe steeper than it looks on that side. Maybe someone local has driven past?

That little spot iteself may hold answers. What is it there for, who and what sort of activities take place there? Is it used often? People stop there at times and for what? Sveltka the Edmonton killer got me wondering this.. He chose remote locations to take stw to smoke crack. A drug user location. Sort of Like this spot. The one woman who ran from him while smoking crack, stumbled across a body while running away. He had left a victim previous and was returning to the same location again, for the same purpose again.

Who lives up that driveway and what have they seen before? What do they know of previous activities around that pulloff spot? Have they seen lights late at night before? Do they have a dog?

And back to Horton's and some earlier suggestions. What type of hangers around were they at the common meeting spot rear of the Hortons? What sort of loud partiers were they at the place Sonia called the Police on. Were they all drug users, drug dealers, was that sort common in the area? Were that sort being attracted to the vicinity and dealing going on right out back of Sonia's?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 11, 2012, 04:09:29 PM
I'd like to know the speed limit...lots of times it's 70 or 80 kmph, not sure about there, though. 
Another thing, there is usually ditches on the sides of the country roads that are deep enough for the spring run-off, if there is no farmer's field.
Can you confirm, DebR?

If the ditches are deep in that stretch of road, then maybe the perp did use the driveway/pulloff spot.

I've been looking at people's garage doors lately......some have handles that are higher up than your original, older doors.  Usually fancy black ones, some even have the barn door looking hinges too....although, all the pictures that have been posted of Sonia's and her neighbourhood do not show that kind.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 08:07:19 PM
"Glenn Nash, 60, of Caledon, who lives near the site where Varaschin's body was found, says the people who frequent the rural area are mostly locals, either walking or hiking in the wooded conservation spot. "It would have to be someone who knows the roads, knows the area," Nash said. "Somebody who's comfortable with the area. And they know this is a very, very quiet road. You can be here for hours and not see any vehicle."

Nash pointed out an area where flowers used to mark the site, now covered in thick snow, where Varaschin's body was found. The retired volunteer firefighter and snowplow operator says that in summer, the area is swampy and covered in tall bulrushes, making it hard to spot a body."

source:  http://news.aol.ca/2010/12/17/nurses-rare-murder-pored-over-at-summit/

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 11, 2012, 08:09:03 PM
In the article about Kera you find this quote:
Quote
But two days after her disappearance in what police are calling a sexually motivated crime, an exhaustive police canvass had officers knocking on every door, even the one to Kevin Davis's home in the shadow of the church where police had set up their command post.

They can tell the motive and did so for Kera, why not for Sonia?

I think that's a typo, right -- Kera for Jennifer?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 08:13:49 PM
The residence (house) at the site Sonia was recovered is some 500 metres away.

(I'll try to find the source.)

EDIT:  add source
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/locals-fear-mounting-body-count-in-idyllic-corner-of-gta/article4210398/

EDIT:
From same article:  If they had just put the body on the other side of the road, in the swamp, no one would have found her,” says Mr. Colucci as he looks across the road where a bank of trees hides the kind of unvisited wetland common in Caledon.

...Interesting...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 08:40:22 PM
...it may have been just that - it was a swamp.  A logistical problem for the perp?...He could not have put her any distance from the road if he used the swamp side?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2012, 08:50:01 PM
We have been told which hospitals that Sonia worked at, but I cannot seem to find  what the name of the Mississauga pharmaceutical company that she worked for. I don't recall that it was ever named. If not, could there be a reason for this?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 11, 2012, 08:52:00 PM
Yes sorry, correction, that was a reference to Jennifer Teague.

It was an interesting point that they called it sexually motivated in Jennifers case, but not so for Sonia.  In the motivation category, that could be important. if not sexually motivated, what then?

Also according the profile worked up about the killer. -

Quote
The man, police say, is likely very familiar with the Orangeville area and the gravel Beech Grove Sideroad, near Mountainview Road, in Caledon, where Varaschin's body was dumped. He may know it because of "recreation, occupation or illegal activities."

Illegal activities including drug users.. deals... etc..

So again these may be viewed as subtle clues left between the lines or just some assuptions being made due to lack of any concrete information or evidence. (they are just possibilities)

Sonia's body was left well within the projected area according those fbi analysis reports.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 08:53:43 PM
Ron, I don't recall ever seeing the pharma company being named. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
D1, my read on that is that short of "residence" (which LE must have ruled out), it pretty much covers the gambit.  In other words, vague.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 09:08:53 PM
Quote Dew
...it may have been just that - it was a swamp.  A logistical problem for the perp?...He could not have put her any distance from the road if he used the swamp side? unquote

That is what I think it was.  A logistical problem.  Perhaps the route that he had taken to get there brought the car on the side of where he left her?  To get to the swamp may have meant that he would have to carry her across the road and I don't know how far he would have to take steps to get to the swamp put her in there.  I would imagine he would have been pretty tired by that time.
I don't live there, but that is what I think, but then that is from sitting miles away from the scene.

The name of the pharma company has never been given, as far as I know. Apparently she only worked there for about one month? Is that right?



JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 09:13:00 PM
Jellybean, I'm also thinking...being familiar with the "close to the road" swampland around these parts...that it may have been physically impossible for the perp to carry/drag her into the swamp.  He may have been up to his armpits in swamp a few feet in.  (DebR might know.)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 09:26:22 PM
Taken from The Stalker
The method of body disposal is usually a function of criminal experience and offender concerns about scientific evidence.

It has been suggested by some of we posters, that he placed her there in water and bull rushes with hopes that his dna would wash away.  He also threw out her comforter with hopes that any evidence would also be destroyed by the elements.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 09:28:28 PM
Jellybean, yes she worked at the pharma company for about a month.

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/535910--sonia-varaschin-s-final-days-filled-with-strife-mother-says

*Although Sonia Varaschin has been portrayed as a smiling, bubbly nurse who was loved by all, her life was hardly carefree. In fact, her life was full of conflict in the days leading up to her murder, her mother says.

*According to Michele, Sonia had a confrontation with a supervisor while employed as a nurse at Southlake over Sonia’s decision to change a dosage that was prescribed for a patient.The supervisor, Michele says, challenged why Sonia had changed the doctor’s orders without authorization and created tension in the workplace. “She would come home crying every night,” Michele says. “She felt she was being treated like a criminal. She couldn’t take it anymore. I wanted to hire a lawyer, but she refused.”

*Sonia quit the hospital and had been working happily for a month or so in Mississauga at the time of her murder, her mother says.

*In addition, there was an alleged conflict between the hospital and the Workers’ Safety and Insurance Board over disability pay Sonia was due after taking time off to heal a shoulder injury suffered on the job, Michele says. In fact, Michele says, a key meeting was called for that Monday, Aug. 30, within hours of her daughter’s murder, to decide who was responsible for making that payment.Michele says things quickly got resolved when police paid a visit to the hospital. “The cheque came by courier very fast,” Michele says, adding that Southlake Regional Hospital had paid up. The Star could not independently confirm Michele’s claims, but police are aware of them.


I am perplexed as to why Sonia - given her reported character - would change a prescription.  This is a HUGE infraction.  Was someone else involved in this?  That is pretty heavy stuff...to cry every night and feel you are being treated as a criminal. 

And why was there a dispute over an injury at work?

...just nagging thoughts...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 09:38:09 PM
Quote from Dew
I am perplexed as to why Sonia - given her reported character - would change a prescription.  This is a HUGE infraction.  Was someone else involved in this?  That is pretty heavy stuff...to cry every night and feel you are being treated as a criminal. 

And why was there a dispute over an injury at work?

...just nagging thoughts...unquote

Me too! Something clicked with me, when at Sonia's funeral her very good friend said that Sonia believed that she could do anything.  Perhaps Sonia had alot of self confidence most of the time. 
Perhaps she changed the med's because she it was best for the patient, and the Dr. was not available. 
Sonia must have reported the change herself (charted it) otherwise how would they know?
If it was pain medication, I could see a nurse cutting back on it, if the patient asked by saying it was too strong and was given her/him awful side effects.  I gather it was only once.  Reduction of pain meds if requested by patient seems reasonable to me.  If that was the case.  We really don't know.
That's the only explanation I can think of.
I wonder how long Sonia was off work with her shoulder injury? I thought she worked right up to the time that she began her new position.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 11, 2012, 09:39:48 PM
JB--is it known that Sonia was found in a wet/marsh area---I thought one neighbour near the site stated if the perp knew the area he would have put the body in the swamp area to hide it better.
I could see the perp not going into the wet area as it would be much messier to clean up, shoes could get stuck, more difficult to walk carrying Sonia's body, etc. Maybe the perp did know the area and didn't want to go into the swamp area. Either way, leaving her outdoors in a wooded area the evidence could be destroyed by the elements. JMO  Has LE checked neighbours in that area for DNA?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 09:45:25 PM
Jellybean, I believed from the beginning that the reason for removing Sonia and placing her where he did, was to (a) destroy DNA and (b) buy time. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 09:49:59 PM
Dew:  I so agree.  He threw Orangeville into chaos.  Police coming and going - Running in and out of her home without foot protection. Cops spent days searching for her.  etc. etc.
And it worked.
I wonder if he pre-planned her murder?

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 09:52:56 PM
Jellybean..hmmm...If Sonia changed medication and it was determined the doctor was fine with it, what would be the problem? 

From the moment her mom made that statement, it has nagged me.  That, and the fact she changed from a career - nay, a passion - in nursing to working for some pharma company?  I can see a nurse who was not cut out for it - born without the nursing gene - switching it up, but Sonia...by all accounts she was one of those devoted nurses.  Doesn't compute.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 10:01:19 PM
No it doesn't compute. I wondered right from the start when her Supervisor said that she left on her own volition.
Very often this term is used to mean, that there were problems, but that the employee and employer agreed to disagree, and end their working relationship.
Perhaps this turned Sonia off from working in a hospital setting. Perhaps she wasn't happy at Newmarket generally speaking.


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 10:05:00 PM
Jellybean, yes...the confusion caused.  I felt from early on that this was deliberate. 

Again, I am alarmed by the level of involvement by "outside" LE, as well as the cloud of "rareness" that surrounds this case.

*"Pritchard wouldn't be specific about the suspect, if the profile suggests he will strike again or has struck in the past.  But he said there were no similar incidents on record with the RCMP-maintained Violent Crime Linkage System (ViCLAS)."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron.../16580656.html

*Two times in as many years, Ontario Provincial Police behavioural science experts have been lauded for helping solve the province’s most bizarre and sensational homicide cases – the abduction and bludgeoning of eight-year-old Tori Stafford and the sex slayings of two women by Russell Williams, then the commander of the country's largest air base. Now, that same unit has sat down with outside agents, including two from the FBI's storied group of criminal profilers, to crack an even more difficult case of small-town murder, the brutal killing of Sonia Varaschin, a nurse in Orangeville near Toronto.
*The “unprecedented” meeting of the minds began the same day another local woman was attacked. While police have not officially linked the two, the similarities – both average, middle-aged women attacked in their homes – have put the community of 27,000 on edge.
*As academic research into psychological patterns among criminals improves, the work of such profilers has become more useful in investigations. “The ones where it’s thought to be most effective are any type of serial crime or where it’s thought to be unusual or there’s some psychopathology,” said Michael Woodworth, a psychologist at the University of British Columbia.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/nurses-killer-knew-area-crime-profilers-say/article1320192/?service=mobile

*For three long days, top criminal profilers and investigators from across North America came together in a Toronto hotel to pore over the details of the summertime murder of Orangeville, Ont., nurse Sonia Varaschin. The three-day "investigative summit" last week was unprecedented but warranted by the "very rare" nature of the crime, Ontario Provincial Police Det.-Insp. Mark Pritchard said at a news conference Thursday.
*About 25 experts met at a hotel near Toronto's Pearson International Airport last week to dissect the case "moment by moment, event by event," including visits to the three crime sites, to try to piece together a profile of the man who killed Varaschin.  In attendance were criminal profilers from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's Virginia-based behavioural analysis unit, Ontario Provincial Police and the RCMP, plus senior homicide investigators from several forces, including York Region, Toronto and Ottawa.Also among those at the summit were several members of the OPP's behavioural sciences unit...
http://news.aol.ca/2010/12/17/nurses-rare-murder-pored-over-at-summit/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 10:15:15 PM
Yes Dew - RARE - I wonder where the rarity exists? And if he will strike again? They seem determined about dating sites. Two years have passed, and there has not been a similar murder?  Perhaps he has left the country?
or is he still in Orangeville, or Caledon? ( I really believe that he lived right in that area).
Was this the first for him? is he holding his compulsions back, should he have a propensity to become a serial stalker and killer?
JB



Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 11, 2012, 10:23:18 PM
Part of the rarity would be, of course, her living in a "safe" area and leading a "risk-free" life.  But this is hardly the first time an innocent victim (in those terms) has been murdered.  I hate to think about it, but I get the feeling it has to do with the cause of death/ body interference.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2012, 10:30:56 PM
Cause of death, I would say.  Body interference is not uncommon.  Pritchard said he is a Cold Blooded Killer.
So, this to my mind, could not have been a crime of passion?
How terrible.
Another fund raising will begin again to add to the bursary in Nursing in the name of Sonia.
She was highly regarded by so many people, even after two years she is still fondly thought of and missed by so many.
She gave so much to her friendships, and to her community.
What a terrible loss.
jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 11, 2012, 11:01:29 PM
At times I wonder about some form of staging in circumstances like this. Especially in regard the implications of the dispute with the doctor at her old job. Someone in that sort of capacity or someone associated with disfiguring a body just because and taking such a big risk to remove her is almost unheard. They do not jive. By implication that sort potential perp would live a long ways away and have no need to remove a body for any reason. Planing should account for better.

This guy seems to have personal reason and motive. The doc and whoever else around there would be on the upper ring of testing suspects by all indication. So unless there is a heavily disguised pattern of suspicious deaths at that hospital, I have trouble fitting any of that in here. I believe the fbi etc came away with that conclusion to. The dating site apparently became the avenue with most suspicion.

The swamp may have been the original choice for the perp but logistics of all sorts ruled it out.

Sonia was a nature lover outdoor recreation sort of gal. Had she been to the park area just a little further out from where she was found in the past? With whom?

Crime of passion can translate into different things. A spurned lover, jealous ex recently found out new info? Various variations possible. .. Having no sexual motive can be associated with that.. The brutality corresponding the degree of the perceived offence.
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 12, 2012, 04:09:22 AM
"No similar incidents on record with the RCMP-maintained Violent Crime Linkage System (ViCLAS)"....
True eh?  Very unusual actions by the perp.

Usually when a woman goes missing from her house and found deceased elsewhere;  it is someone close to her that is the perp...a husband/boyfriend.
Apparantly Sonia had neither.

So....maybe the Police need to look at people that aren't obvious.  The problems at the hospital niggle at me.  These professionals strike me as being a tight bunch, but there was problems and Sonia left.  (someone that had work boots in the back of his closet, but not used for work).
I am really not sure what to think about where Sonia was left....not sure if it was pre-planned to dispose of her there...or if he just headed out of town (in a panic) until he found a quiet stretch.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 05:01:19 AM
Sonia had a friend and he was named in her obit.    Possibly she left the hospital because she no longer felt comfortable in her current situation. 
Maybe it is considered rare because it happened in Orangeville.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 05:09:23 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/907571--fbi-analysts-weigh-in-on-orangeville-murder

Do you think the investigators are claiming they aren't connected so they don't alarm the public?  With Kera, that's 3.  Ms Loder sounds like it was attempted murder. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 12, 2012, 06:24:48 AM
I can't rule out a connection with the Loder attack, but the Police seem to have ruled it out.  AND....Sonia's attacker showed up on foot, didn't Shelly's?  No one reported a vehicle at Shelly's (if I remember correctly).

I do, though, rule out a connection with Kera's murder, my main reason is that she was not attacked or taken from her home....although I wonder if there is a connection to Marguerita's murder (she was found near Uxbridge).  Her killer has apparantly fled to Iran.  (I mean a connection with Kera and Marguerita, just to be clear).

I know Sonia's friend was mentioned in the obit....but apparantly he has been cleared....how? we don't know, really. 

Modified to fix up my grammar.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2012, 03:01:29 PM
There was never any formal annoucement re: news articles, but he did leave Canada according to a Facebook pages. One comment was made by a friend of Sonia that he had returned to England. The police cleared him right away.  Perhaps he was out of town and had an air tight alibi.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 03:15:48 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/871937--varaschin-family-grapples-with-daughter-s-murder
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2012, 03:23:19 PM
There was never any mention by the press as to the name of the pharma company that she last worked in.  I find that odd.
They had everything else, where she worked as a nurse, and followed it up at the hospital, where she volunteered, etc.
But not a peep as to where she last worked.  Did the police request that this not be given?
She was there for one month.

Nothing happened to Sonia prior to working there. 
Firstly, Sonia was barely seen in her neighbourhood in the past as she was worked shift work.
Then suddenly her routine is regular, and more predictable. Predictable routine.  Home in the evenings, and on weekends.
This predictable routine - over the last month, to my mind, placed her in danger.

The killer knew that she would be home on Sunday evening, because she had to be at work Monday morning.

If he was stalking her over a long period of time, he would have been spotted by neighbours (if he was strange to the neighbourhood) and would have had to go and check out her place at all times of the day or nite to catch her when she was at home..
So - I am thinking that this all began the last month of her life when she started her new position with the pharma company.

This to my mind, was planned.  Note: he even closed the front door behind him.
I think he went over and over it in his mind, when he would, how he would, how he would transport her, where he would place her and how he would get back.

It is believed that she was murdered in her bedroom (thus being wrapped in her bottom bedsheet & comforter.)
It is believed that he came in through the sliding glass doors at the back.
I believe he came prepared.

 It would have been dark in Sonia's home (she would be in bed), so he brought a flashlight.
Also, no suspects have been asked for their fingerprints. 
I believe he wore gloves.
The boots which he was wearing may not even have been his own.
I think he thought of many things, however one thing he did not count on - was the fact that he left his dna in her home.
He thought that by throwing her comforter out, it would fragment any dna. And by placing her body in contaminated water in the blullrushes would do the same.

So far, after two years, still no arrest.  So he planned this very well.
No fingerprints?? - but they do have dna.  That is why the police are going after dna.  Just my opinion.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 03:29:29 PM
I have refered to him as the bf for quite some time and information on him can be found more under that label than by name. Avoids legal implication that way too.

We do not yet know or have any confirmation why he was absolved and based on what?

What we do know is that someone should have said so by now which keeps some of the suspicion alive. Even the bf himself should be doing so imo. Might even help his chances on his next dating site.. imo

Anyway - we know little but I wonder the stories being told-
from-
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/995479--police-to-probe-dating-websites-in-sonia-varaschin-murder (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/995479--police-to-probe-dating-websites-in-sonia-varaschin-murder)

Quote
Sonia had a boyfriend, Ian Rushton, at the time of her murder. Police confirmed they have cleared him as a person of interest in the case and the family says they do not believe he had any connection with the murder.

The relationship with Rushton was off-and-on for a year or so, the source said.

It's not clear if she dated people she had met on the matchmaking websites. It's believed she was most active before she met her boyfriend.

Sonia's brother, Viv, 38, said he is aware his sister used online dating services but said he was reluctant to comment because of the police investigation.

He said Sonia and Rushton met through friends.

Then we have bf saying-
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/871937--varaschin-family-grapples-with-daughter-s-murder (http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/871937--varaschin-family-grapples-with-daughter-s-murder)

Quote
Rushton recalls the night they were competing to see who could make the best dish. Sonia was on dessert duty and left her chocolate cake in the oven too long. It came out hard as a rock. Not one to back down from a challenge, she ran out, bought something sweet and brought it over to his house.

The pair met at a farmer’s market. Rushton moved to Canada from the U.K. 2½ years ago.


Does his alibi hold up any better if questioned? Who are those mutual friends? Which is it? DNA could cut through it all.. 

Poorly written but adds questions how the two met--
http://getmaturedating.blogspot.ca/2011/05/police-dating-sites-in-murder.html (http://getmaturedating.blogspot.ca/2011/05/police-dating-sites-in-murder.html)

lots of info and insights everywhere -like-
http://theperpwalk.blogspot.ca/2011/05/opp-to-get-dna-from-all-varaschins-male.html (http://theperpwalk.blogspot.ca/2011/05/opp-to-get-dna-from-all-varaschins-male.html)
Quote
Overwhelmingly often, kidnap-rape-murder cases of women are not committed by strangers, but by someone whose romantic overtures have been spurned or ignored.


fb removed
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 12, 2012, 03:52:10 PM
Thank you for the replies...

So, there is no actual confirmation that he left. 

D1, what legal implications are you referring to?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2012, 03:52:56 PM
Some investigating on my part also shows that IR left. He also had set up a Facebook Page,   in England. When someone brought that to the attention on this site.  He removed it.
So he does read Unsolved, I believe.  Unless it was all coincidence.
Can't say that I blame him for returning home.  He was very fond of her. No doubt people would whisper behind his back, etc, etc.  Sonia was gone.  What is the purpose of staying on?
Probably came to the conclusion it would be best to return home.
We do know that he was cleared by police early on.
The question will always remain, do they have his dna along with the others being tested.
This taking of cheek swabs  was supposed to be done within two weeks, by original announcements.
Two years later, and they are still doing it!!
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2012, 04:07:48 PM
I really don't understand why they are continuing on with it.  700 men so far.  The last announcement made by Le was during the 2nd year of her discovery, when the Inspector said quote: "We have number of persons of interest in the investigarion.  Again, to preserve the status of the investigation, we won't speak to suspect or suspects and their location or potential location">
Note: Suspect or (plural) suspects.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on October 12, 2012, 04:11:05 PM
Re the Farmers Market links.....
LE visited the Orangeville Farmers Market on several Saturdays after Sonia's remains were found. LE went to each vendor there with a poster (showing pictures of Sonia, her white bloodied car, a pair of Mark's Work Wearhouse Workboots, among other things) asking questions. They seemed to be concentrating on vendors whose product(s) they'd found in Sonia's home.  LE asked each vendor if Sonia looked familiar and enquired whether she'd purchased product(s) from them in the past. This continued for several Saturdays. There was a definite police presence at the Market on Broadway for a few weeks.

Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 12, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
Posted by: jellybean « on: Today at 03:52:56 PM »



Thank you, Jellybean. 

I agree that Sonia's death would be a motivator for him returning to the UK.  It must have been such a shock. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
The same goes for me JB. The links I had saved on this subject, no longer work. Could only guess why.

All these sort of dicussion sites have similar rules about naming suspects and making unfounded allegations. Just avoids any potential slander situations for admin. Unfounded just meaning no proof even though it should be questioned. Easiest way around it is a general discussion as it is usual to question the spouse etc.. That is standard and just questioning general procedure. The questions we ask are pretty basic, did the bf evade and avoid dna testing by moving? A simple answer on that would go along to ending anything else we might ask.

Did he move? I believe there is was some mention elsewhere besides facebook but have not located it yet. As said, my old links no longer work. Will do some more looking..

thanks Deb R, food for thought..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 04:21:39 PM
Does anyone know if the term organized and disorganized applies solely to serial cases?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 04:29:18 PM
I don't think it necessarily applies just to serial cases. Maybe more to planned vs unplanned, act of passion or premeditated, triggered by drugs or alcohal, etc.. First timer vs experienced may indicate a serial at work by the organized aspects or a recognizable signature though.

There are volumes written on this subject which I believe we have some references to in the members area or JB may be able to direct you to some online info.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5708.msg93909#msg93909 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5708.msg93909#msg93909)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dew on October 12, 2012, 04:39:37 PM

All these sort of dicussion sites have similar rules about naming suspects and making unfounded allegations. Just avoids any potential slander situations for admin. Unfounded just meaning no proof even though it should be questioned. Easiest way around it is a general discussion as it is usual to question the spouse etc.. That is standard and just questioning general procedure. The questions we ask are pretty basic, did the bf evade and avoid dna testing by moving? A simple answer on that would go along to ending anything else we might ask.

Thank you, D1. 

In no way was I suggesting he should be considered a suspect and I certainly would not make unfounded allegations.  I used his name for search engine purposes, since his name is quite public.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 04:52:43 PM
I have been quite vocal on this point before and I do use the bf as an example to question procedure and priority of testing. There is a basis to question that by inclusion of the bf which otherwise would not be justified. You are fine asking and searching, have to be somewhat more careful posting. I have run a foul in the past and there is a bit of a learning curve where to draw the line. The questions are valid imo. Someone will likely warn you if or when the line is being pushed too far.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 12, 2012, 04:54:34 PM
from D1:
Quote
All these sort of dicussion sites have similar rules about naming suspects and making unfounded allegations. Just avoids any potential slander situations for admin. Unfounded just meaning no proof even though it should be questioned. Easiest way around it is a general discussion as it is usual to question the spouse etc.. That is standard and just questioning general procedure. The questions we ask are pretty basic, did the bf evade and avoid dna testing by moving? A simple answer on that would go along to ending anything else we might ask.


Thanks D1, well written.

Admin on this site learned much in regard to the topic of naming suspects and unfounded allegations during the Amber Kirwan case. We handle things much differently now and those types of things are nipped in the bud before they become a problem. In the case of the Kirwan thread, as many know, it was eventually locked for a long period of time. I agee that general discussion is the easiest way to avoid potential problems.

While it is natural to be curious as to whether the bf provided dna, we need also to remember that he is not a suspect in Sonia's murder. We also have no proof one way or other if he has moved.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 05:01:46 PM
Ahh thanks, and thanks for the reminder the value of posting quotes and links. I once had a link likely the same as JB, but I never posted or quoted it as it was a facebook link. So when I post as I once did as if I know the bf has left the country, I will have to revise my approach now. (or find a new link)  :) 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
Sonia's house was close to a ravine and wooded area?  If he was hiding in the woods; he may have gone unnoticed.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 12, 2012, 05:58:36 PM
I certainly won't rule that out.  It would be a perfect place to go under the radar.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 12, 2012, 06:06:23 PM
The fact the police were questionning vendors at the market means something but what?
Do they think it was someone familiar to Sonia, maybe not by name but by association. 
Or are they inquiring if Sonia was shopping with someone else?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 12, 2012, 06:50:16 PM

I was able to find this article from May 26, 2011. This article does not name the source of the statement. 

Quote
Investigators are looking for someone she knew, possibly from that dating website. Her boyfriend, who has since moved to England, has been cleared.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/997644--varaschin-closed-dating-site-account-months-before-murder-founder-says (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/997644--varaschin-closed-dating-site-account-months-before-murder-founder-says)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2012, 07:09:30 PM
Excellent! The chronology of the statement in that link could infer this information was provided by investigators but is interesting in that regard despite. They are only just announcing at the time that they will be requesting dna and in the same breath, we learn that the bf has already left the country. So cleared by what means is still a viable and justifiable question.

Quote
Investigators are looking for someone she knew, possibly from that dating website. Her boyfriend, who has since moved to England, has been cleared.

In announcing they have found the DNA of the killer, the Ontario Provincial Police say they are drawing up a list of names to submit to voluntary DNA swabs. Police expect to have collected the samples by mid-June

Recently we were reminded of another case in which bf left the country soon after with the blessing of LE only later to be implicated and eventually convicted. Its worth the reminder, out of country and foreign citizenship afford different opportunity. We are just asking if that was accounted for and dna requested before he left? A question of procedure about a pattern we have seen before.
 http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6385.msg94784;boardseen#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6385.msg94784;boardseen#new)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2012, 07:31:23 PM
http://christopherdiarmani.com/2363/human-rights/personal-privacy/the-hunt-for-sonia-varaschins-murderer-casts-a-wide-net/

The Hunt for Sonia Varaschin’s Murderer casts a wide net


May 27, 2011

Charter of Rights and Freedoms Breaches, Personal Privacy


Sonia Varaschin was a beautiful woman, cut down in the prime of her life by an unknown killer.  Unkown at least for now.
 
Sonia was reported missing on September 1st, 2010, and her body was found five days later in a rural area about 12 kms southeast of Orangeville, Ontario.  She was attacked in her home, and then driven in her own car to a remote location where her body was dumped.
 
The killer has, according to police, detailed knowledge of the Orangeville area, and could well be a resident of the area.  They’ve developed a profile of the man they believe killed Sonia, and have been asking for the public’s help from the very beginning of the investigation.

That a kind and caring nurse like Sonia Varaschin would be targeted and murdered is deeply disturbing, and not just to the residents of the small town of Orangeville.  A facebook site created to honour her memory was created and was almost instantly filled with kind words and prayers from over 3,000 people.
 
Her tragic death touched the hearts of a lot of people.
 
While police have been very tight-lipped about their investigation, they have released photographs of boots allegedly like the kind the killer would have worn at the time of the killing.  They have believed from the start that the killer lives in or has strong ties to the community.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 12, 2012, 10:13:24 PM
Just going over Sonia V, Shelley L, Audrey G's threads with information we have-----

1) all are unsolved
2) all in rural settings/woods areas
3) no forced entry?
4) all very violent?
5) all happened in a 6 month time frame in GTA larger area

Did these women actually know the perp or was it someone who presented himself in a non threatening way and gained entry? Possibly posing as someone he was not, or was?
There is probably a lot more going on behind the scenes than the public knows but maybe with a bit more released info the public could aid solving these crimes.
Releases of any vehicle descriptions, POI eg. door to door sales people---some clue must be out there that could jog a person's memory.
I believe as others that these crimes are related too many similarities.  imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on October 13, 2012, 06:07:27 AM
Discus, I think they were trying to establish whether she had a regular customer relationship with any vendors at the market who would know her by name. Most people who frequent farmers markets buy from the same vendors each week and over a period of time you develop a friendship with them. People like to buy their food from someone they know or get to know over a period of time. People who buy food from a farmer like to ask questions and chat when they are making their purchases, the farmers market is a very social place and people take their time to shop, not like in the grocery store.  I think it was a well known fact by then that Sonia loved shopping at Orangeville Farmers Market, and, correct me if I am wrong, that she met her former bf at a farmers market, or that was one of their favourite shared activities. Does anyone know the former bf's profession? Maybe a chef? Something involving food?  Maybe she gravitated to people involved with food. Just wondering....

Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 13, 2012, 09:50:01 AM
Just going over Sonia V, Shelley L, Audrey G's threads with information we have ...

.....

Did these women actually know the perp or was it someone who presented himself in a non threatening way and gained entry? Possibly posing as someone he was not, or was?

What about posing as a police officer, on foot? Remember all those police badges (real? fake?) somebody in the peel region was selling? He was arrested for it, for possessing hundreds of badges with intent to sell. Obviously, those badges would be most in demand for criminal use..... Sorry, I don't have time at the moment to find the link.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 13, 2012, 10:02:16 AM
Jobo actually posted on Andrea Damude's thread some time ago  about a uniformed man posing as an officer stopping several woman in their vehicles in May 2012. Those women were apparently detained and let go without incident (thank goodness). I think we have discussed this already here or on Websleuths that not many of us would open doors to strangers in evening or late hours; a police officer in uniform and/or with an authentic-looking badge could be a real exception.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2012, 10:52:46 AM
Soccermom:  Possibly that could be the case, but wouldn't neighbours notice a (fake) cop ringing her doorbell?

Possibly late at nite in the wee hours?

Food for thought that is for sure!

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 13, 2012, 12:42:06 PM
well ... neighbours didn't notice her body being removed through the front of her house, either. So it could have been late, or he wasn't actually in uniform, or! It's so hard to say. Equally, the perp might not have needed a ruse; he could have  been known and invited or be known or unkown and have entered uninvited, unwelcome, and unnoticed. We have so little to go by. But it's with relief that I see the speculations circulate anew -- even some of the same (old) ideas presented but with fresh eyes.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2012, 01:10:23 PM
Discus, when you look at the bushes behind those buildings, they seem awfully small, and quite a distance from the back of the bownhouses.  Re: rumour cigarette but found there, and perhaps killer waited and watched.
Surely someone would have spotted him there and be suspicious. 
Also her bedroom is in the front facing the other units across the street.  I think he would have had to be out front at some point to know when it was safe for him to make his entry.
And how would he even know that she did not lock the sliding doors that nite?
That black thing which you refer to on the side of wall, at the front of the house,  looks to me like a security (swipe card) to gain entry, as some poster suggested.
Her front door would automatically close behind her once she entered and closed the door.
It is thought that he gained entry from the back via the sliding glass patio door.
Detectives said "Who said the door was locked?"  Her mother said that Sonia probably forgot to lock the door when she let the cat out, and went to answer the phone.

There is another way of making these doors look as though they are locked, but they  in fact are not.
It would require someone being in that area (at that door when it was open) a quick visit, and a drop of a certain item in the right place, and the door will appear to be closed, locked but it won't be.

JB 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 13, 2012, 03:15:15 PM
IF the cigarette turns out to be a match for DNA at the scene, that would suggest, to me at least, that the murder was not pre-meditated. (Myself, I don't suspect the cig belongs to perp.) But this also follows from my profile for the perp which is different from the standard line  (although I know many of you share similar thoughts as I). The manner in which the vehicle was parked, eluding camera registration in a number of areas, using the sheet for transport, using Sonia's vehicle for removal to get himself back to an area (for me, his car) so that he  doesn't have to walk openly covered in blood, removing Sonia to buy healing time and cover/alibi -- these are all signs, to me, of extremely cold presence of mind rather than irrational or unnecessary risk-taking. It goes without saying that I am not of course lauding these actions; this is a heinous and irrational crime, and the  perp is a coward and monster at once for committing it. But I so disagree with the profile that has emerged from LE's statements that his actions post-scene are incomprehensible. Anyway -- my sense of this person is that he would be too careful to smoke and drop a cig at all -- anywhere, at any time, in public; I suspect he tends to be overly cautious/slightly paranoid ... probably BECAUSE he has these dark tendencies.  I imagine him being the type of person who, if he even IS a smoker,  picks up his butt and laughs to others self-deprecatingly that he is too polite to leave his detritus on the ground (but it is really about his caution around markers). But perhaps I'm wrong.  Still: Why doesn't LE announce the type of cigarette, if there is connecting DNA evidence, the way they released the brand of boot?  I know smokes are more common than a pair of workboots only sold in a specific store, but  -- couldn't such info spark a tip, if connected?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2012, 04:29:24 PM
Soccermom:  To quote you

" The manner in which the vehicle was parked, eluding camera registration in a number of areas, using the sheet for transport, using Sonia's vehicle for removal to get himself back to an area (for me, his car) so that he  doesn't have to walk openly covered in blood, removing Sonia to buy healing time and cover/alibi -- these are all signs, to me, of extremely cold presence of mind rather than irrational or unnecessary risk-taking. - unquote.

I totally agree!!  The boots that he wore may even be a pair that he had never worn before, and would not wear again.
I really think that he came prepared.  Thought about everything.
The day, the time, the how, etc.
Probably felt justified in doing it, and as cool as a cucumber after.( Just my opinion)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 14, 2012, 10:38:21 AM
I totally agree, JB -- I think he can act very logically/coolly, and I can't see any evidence of alcohol- or drug-obfuscated behaviour in any of his specific actions post-attack. Sonia's murder itself, on the other hand, is evidence of rage/out of control behaviour. I'm of two minds about premed: on the one hand, I believe he could have surprised her while sleeping (this based on lack of discussion by LE or media of a struggle inside the home, since as I have said before I believe Sonia would have fought for her life) and so I agree he would have come carefully prepared; on the other hand, I can also envision a scenario where he imagines, in his phantasms, that things might have gone differently -- delusions of seduction, and so he might have "prepared" for a different outcome. Hence the expression of rage/frustration against her....

Like you, JB, I believe this person can wholly present as a calm, rational, "everyday" person -- possibly even a "model" citizen,  even held in some kind of exemplary esteemby profession or record of success IN his profession or in the community. I know this flies in the face of theories that the perp is young-ish and likely to exhibit increased anxiety, absenteeism, alcohol abuse, etc....
But I also do believe that there are times when he just can't control those flashes of rage. Someone VERY close to him (if he allows that) must see these, and be shocked..... SOMEONE has a tip to give.

Anyway. I could be mistaken in the profile. But I just can't help reading the evidence quite differently than in terms of the "unnecessary risk" angle. MOO :)
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 14, 2012, 01:25:24 PM
Soccermom:  To quote you

" The manner in which the vehicle was parked, eluding camera registration in a number of areas, using the sheet for transport, using Sonia's vehicle for removal to get himself back to an area (for me, his car) so that he  doesn't have to walk openly covered in blood, removing Sonia to buy healing time and cover/alibi -- these are all signs, to me, of extremely cold presence of mind rather than irrational or unnecessary risk-taking. - unquote.

I totally agree!!  The boots that he wore may even be a pair that he had never worn before, and would not wear again.
I really think that he came prepared.  Thought about everything.
The day, the time, the how, etc.
Probably felt justified in doing it, and as cool as a cucumber after.( Just my opinion)
JB


I agree as well---but am not so sure about the "cool as a cucumber after"   I still think there would have been some anxiety for the first few days as he wouldn't have known that he wasn't seen, etc.  I do think he was somewhat organized to meet up with Sonia and later left disorganized crime scenes to interfere with LE investigations.  To put this out there---does anyone think that the perp has a psychosis and commits crimes during these times (possibly times of stress initiating the psychosis) and then there are long periods between crimes where he appears normal? Ideas??? thx

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2012, 02:13:54 PM
Here is an excellent article on a psychopath.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=2

This is different of course from psychosis. If we are thinking serial killer in Sonia's case, I gather you are wondering if he can put down his impulses for two years. Good question.
That can also lead to the question, could this person be in a mental hospital at the moment, and am wondering if law enforcement are following  that possibility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1524500.stm

Clues to a murderous mind, shows the difference between psychotic behaviour and psychopathic behaviour

JB Long reads, but very informative.

After reading these, I am leaning more towards psychopath behaviour.  According to the other article, a psychotic episode, is very often not remembered by the person.
I wonder if a psychotic could think that far ahead, re; remove her from her home, drive to a certain site, and return the car. etc.
I don't know - further thoughts anyone?
http://www.naturalchild.org/elliott_barker/partial_psychopath.html

The above article is chilling.




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2012, 02:37:51 PM
These are the questions that I have been pondering, and input would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps another poster would have the answer or partial answer.

If she was dating someone from a dating site, would they not exchange phone numbers? Would they not chat on the phone? - to arrange a meeting place? If it was done only by computer, then that would be a one time meeting which didn't go any further.

How would the killer know that her door was unlocked?  That he could wait and gain access when Sonia and  neighbours were sleeping?  That is the biggest question of all that bugs me.
The possible answer to this, could lead in a more positive direction.
As Detective Mark Pritchard said "Who said her door was locked?"

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 14, 2012, 03:35:51 PM
Quote
As Detective Mark Pritchard said "Who said her door was locked?"

If I remember correctly the detective said something like "you're assuming her door was locked". That statement could be a good way of getting around giving any information. No one said one way or the other whether her door was locked.

Quote
How would the killer know that her door was unlocked? 

Perhaps he didn't know her door was unlocked, JB. Perhaps he went in through the only entry that he found unlocked.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 14, 2012, 03:45:15 PM
The Police did call him cold blooded, meaning something was found to indicate that. A sociopathic trait. As we have been told, these sort hide among us and if you did not know their past well, they learn how to blend in.

I too think we are seeing a combination of things that may have been a progression of one thing into another triggering a sociopathic response. The trigger effect has been noted in many an act of passion, jealousy driven murder. Not much has been said, but Sonia had a "friend" coming to stay that weekend from Jasper. Do we know if that friend was male or female?

Until all these sort of personal aspects have been worked through in all the cases mentioned, or until we know there is some sort of signature, I tend to avoid going to the serial killer theory til all else is exhausted.

Right now we have several avenues of thought in regard several areas of known contention in Sonia's professional and personal life.

We have yet to understand all the ramifications and implications involved. I have found value in much of the recent discussion as more and more a bigger more well defined picture is forming.

It is possible that a combination of traits, acts, motivations, intoxicants, timing, and triggers are involved not usually attributable to just one single perp. Both organized and disorganized seem to be in play. Maybe he sobered up and upon realizing what he did, took remedial action?

There are elements of rage followed by pure panic and expediency mingled with unexplained brazen actions later described as wreckless and cold blooded.. Seems a progression but in a person with the hidden prerequisites already in existence to do this prior the trigger..

Was there a trigger event, or was it just a coincidence? Sonia was expecting company that weekend..

She likely had all personal info on her computer, including date site profiles etc.. She would have phone records.. Were any computer files erased? Did any one attempt to disguise anything at Sonia's residence? Not we know... That was how it was Friday... The perp had all weekend to arrange whatever prior discovery her absence. 

Deb R asked, what profession the bf? I believe JB had info he was or claimed to be a tradesperson.. JB? Any links?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 14, 2012, 03:55:05 PM
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

Some insight-I don't think they are solely serial killers.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
Discus, not psych or sociopaths are killers.  I worked for a sociopath, literally.  Never again.  Sad thing is you find out after all the time invested etc., 

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/858391--dimanno-police-should-tell-us-more-about-orangeville-kill
If Sonia Varaschin was murdered by someone unlikely to attack anybody else — police should say so.

There is a vast difference between not random and acutely personal.

That the 42-year-old nurse may have known the individual who took her life, as clearly suspected by investigators, does not automatically make this a crime of specificity rather than homicide of opportunity.

That she might have left her door unlocked on a steamy summer weekend, as the lead detective implied at a news conference Wednesday afternoon, raises new questions about how and why this particular, petite woman came to such a gruesome end.

It is not reassuring.
Eleven days after Varaschin went missing, five days after her remains were found along a secluded country road, 24 hours after positive identification and formal designation of homicide, the public has no reason to believe they’re not at risk. That matters when murder happens, what the implications could be for everyone else.

Orangeville, where Varaschin lived in a townhouse complex with her cat, is a small place, only 27,000 people. Police believe the killer knew the area, was familiar with the complex and “potentially Sonia herself.’’ They have steadfastly rejected a helter-skelter scenario.“I think, with fair degree of confidence, we can say that the person was at least familiar to her,’’ OPP Det.-Insp. Mark Pritchard told reporters.

That broadens the scope alarmingly.

Whether the murderer also resided in Orangeville or frequented the town often enough to know its niches — such as the laneway where Varaschin’s blood-splattered car was found Aug. 30 with trunk and front doors open — he (presumably a he) suddenly looms more ominously, more of a diffuse threat, than just a week ago, I think: Someone rubbed up against, encountered at work, in a store, the gym, the local hospital.

Should investigators have evidence to blunt that fear, they ought to share it now because alleviating anxiety could not possibly compromise their pursuit of the murderer. What they’re not saying, or selectively saying, verges on the irresponsible and unfair, given the investigative covenant Pritchard has urged on the public — the help police seek.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing has happened similar to this. So, are we then to assume that this is a stand alone killing, directed specifically towards Sonia?
Would this exlude a serial killer - or a psychotic?  Maybe  it would exclude that type of killer. Perhaps the police decided that over time the public would relax about it when they see that there will not be another Sonia type of killing in their area.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 14, 2012, 04:56:22 PM
Sonia's case was called "unusual" and complex, and FBI profilers were brought in. Audrey Gleave's was called one of the most brutal scences StS Hrab ever encountered, and there was suggestion by LE of a body trophy (at least, that's how most folks have interpreted cryptic comments on the "sexual component" and other phrases "as if making off with something" from the victim, in AG's case). Both women were targetted in their homes. Both called "low-risk" victims.  Neither scene had signs of break-in.  It's hard not to suspect these two cases as at least potentially connected.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 14, 2012, 05:00:34 PM
I liked that article JB. That reporter is beginning to ask questions that go beyond the scope of the usual. What was once a possibly viable way of dealing with the public in relation a crime like this, may not be so after two years. They live in fear in that area a possible serial killer, psychotic local man erupting indiscriminantly or whatever the imagination can conjure. I would also join in the call for more public information. It is not only time, it is overdue imo.. The Police do seem to be downplaying the potential to reoffend as if they know something more than we are being told.

Quote
Should investigators have evidence to blunt that fear, they ought to share it now because alleviating anxiety could not possibly compromise their pursuit of the murderer. What they’re not saying, or selectively saying, verges on the irresponsible and unfair, given the investigative covenant Pritchard has urged on the public — the help police seek.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2012, 06:03:58 PM
D1, that article was written Sep 9, 2010/  Sorry, I should have pointed out the month and year.
But much of it still holds true.  Little has changed.
Deb R or Dew:  I have learned that O'ville and surrounding areas are very picky environmentally.
I was wondering if people would be allowed to have burning barrels - ie to burn leaves or refuse in O'ville or Caledon?

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 14, 2012, 06:16:01 PM
Actually maybe even more relevant? If info was justifiably held back then, people were left to read between the lines and conclude what ever they wished just by the time factors involved. Fair? After two years plus, if that hold back info were released, would it generate additional tips? Would that tip the scale to where a case might get made opposed becoming a cold case forever? Memories fade, there is only so wide a window of opportunity after which once closed is gone. Is the victim well served by the standard procedure of holding most everything back?  We are at that doorstep here imo..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 14, 2012, 07:30:41 PM
His behaviour indicates little conscience, a psychopathic personality.  He will never come forward on his own; hopefully he made some kind of mistake during the crime itself.  He is not suspect because he fits in and is a "nice guy"; therefore no one considers him. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 14, 2012, 07:46:25 PM
Sonia's thread is temporarily closed in order for admin to read over things.

Thanks,
Debbie
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on October 16, 2012, 01:36:43 PM
I've spent a lot of time in the last few days reading over this thread. I had planned on having that accomplished by the first evening, but kept losing my connection. Apologies for the delay in opening the thread. 

Reading through this thread it is apparent that as on all threads that have high volumes of posting, things have been hashed, hashed and re-hashed. Many ideas and scenarios have been discussed, some of them many times over. Much time, effort and thought has been put into this thread. Of course always a question from the beginning is "who" murdered Sonia. A question that we would all like to have the answer to. 

Please keep in mind as the discussion proceeds in that direction that there has never been a suspect named in Sonia's murder. To avoid potential problems it is imperative when discussing this topic that we do not name names or speak of anyone in an accusatory manner. D1 said it well....

Quote
All these sort of dicussion sites have similar rules about naming suspects and making unfounded allegations. Just avoids any potential slander situations for admin. Unfounded just meaning no proof even though it should be questioned. Easiest way around it is a general discussion as it is usual to question the spouse etc.. That is standard and just questioning general procedure. 

Something that has been discussed a little is whether LE should be giving out more information to the public. There are those who likely feel they should be, and those who would feel just the opposite. Without knowing what LE knows, or what direction this investigation has taken, that's a hard call to make. We do know that in any active investigation LE keeps things close to their chest. There are always things that we will never be privy to. I don't feel we can assume that because we haven't been told about specific things being done, that means they haven't/aren't.

Perhaps there are procedures in any investigation that we the public do not feel are working and would like to see changed, however, other than in general terms here on Sonia's thread, that is another topic. Not to imply that it can't be discussed, but that it should have it's own thread.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 16, 2012, 05:23:39 PM
As time marches on past the point of an easy resolution in any unsolved case, you end up going back and requestioning everything. We have seen that here with many points being rehashed over and over. Frustration sets in over the pace, fear of the unknown raises levels to even question whether a serial killer involved. The best we have fbi, profilers, opp etc have all come up dry.. Not much more we can say about the information given us except to question what we aren't being told. A few basic questions and a few simple answers could go along way to quelling some discontent over process. Even Sonia's mother expressed her discontent over how little she was being told. This seems to be the reality of many investigations nowadays and almost standard procedure.

Deb-
Quote
Perhaps there are procedures in any investigation that we the public do not feel are working and would like to see changed, however, other than in general terms here on Sonia's thread, that is another topic. Not to imply that it can't be discussed, but that it should have it's own thread.


Whether it is appropriate to ask for more information and for updates is something that often comes up in many discussions. Details of Sonia's case provides some added justification to ask these sort of questions than most others. A general discussion of that is in the members only area. For now that is a more appropriate location for it than here. ..imo..
see- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg95735#msg95735 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg95735#msg95735)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2012, 09:07:53 PM
Dannybam: The killer did not close the garage door behind him.  You may have a good point there, about the hole left in the garge door.  To gain entry?  Perhaps no garage door opener of which we have surmised?

Nor the use of  a garage door opener, of which he could not find? And had to gain access another way to open it?

 I am now left wondering if he couldn't find her  car keys either, and he had to do some mechanical manipultation to start her car?

This would today, totaly  not surprise me.

A far take from my original stance.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 22, 2012, 04:35:45 AM
Perhaps he left the garage door open on purpose so any concerned neighbours would assume Sonia had left in her car and forgot the door open, hence hiding the hole left in the door.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on October 22, 2012, 09:10:40 AM
There is a link around here somewhere that shows a pad like thing on the garage door and it's tan colored with red numbers or writing. Strange place for a keypad if that is what it is but the picture was clear. .

There are two pictures at this link and one is of Sonia's garage door under different lighting ...

 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1062218--buyer-unaware-of-orangeville-home-s-grim-history-abandons-sale#comments
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 23, 2012, 10:54:53 AM
Investigators could have opened the garage door to hide evidence from the public, or just for ease of investigation.

I see no mechanical advantage to opening the garage door through a hole that high on the door.  Garage door locks can be defeated by a screwdriver, pipe or hammer (the first two, being relatively silent methods).  Picking a garage door (though I haven't tried) I assume would also be exceedingly simple.  Reaching your arm through the door to access the locking mechanism inside, could spark a revival of America's Dumbest Criminals episodes.

The tan coloured area on the garage door appeared only after the investigation of the home was complete.  It was black in pictures taken the day of/after the murder.  I think it's general concensus that the tan area is a poor example of patching a hole in a garage door.  Whether the hole is due to a rage-inspired blow, was a pre-existing condition, or a section of door that had been cut out by investigators, we don't know for sure.  If pressed for an opinion, I'd favour the opinion that the killer has made the hole, and that it was done in anger.  I'll attach relevant pics.

Sonia's garage was small, and her car was wide enough that I think someone may have to turn sideways just to get in and out.  I think we can assume that she wasn't in the habit of reversing into it.  If she had reversed into it, the killer would likely have had to bring the car out of the garage before placing Sonia in the trunk. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2012, 01:39:50 PM
Ah yes Dannybam!! But a neighbour reported that her garage door was open that morning, and Sonia always closed her garage door. The neighbours did observe many things, after her murder, but did not report anything suspicious leading up to her murder!!


jb.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 23, 2012, 04:26:54 PM
JB,

Right on.  I hadn't read that.  In such a secluded neighbourhood, I guess they wouldn't feel the need to question things that were out of place.  Following the murder, I'm sure they were jumping at shadows.

So... maybe he was stupid enough to think he'd open the garage through a hole in the door, instead of brute-forcing or picking the lock??  Surely he didn't leave Sonia by the steps while he was fumbling with the door?!?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2012, 04:32:07 PM
Dannybam:  No fumbling on the murder's part in my opinion.  He simply opened the garage, after he carried her out, left her on the ground - drove her car out - placed her in the car, or trunk and drove off, and did not bother to close the garage door, as he had to get the heck out of there. Or - he first went out - opened the garage door, drove her car out, went back to the front hall entry, her wrapped up in her quilt and bedsheet, and carried her out of the front door, and placed her in the car, and left the garage door open and took off.
If I was the killer, I would have done the latter.  Get the car out first!! Get things prepared to transport her.
But, I don't believe that he did the latter.  He wasn't as neat as we like to think.  I think that he took her out first, Note pillow case on ground, then got the car out and then placed her in the car, and then transported her.

Just my opinion of course.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 23, 2012, 05:21:10 PM
Just wondering if the Cops would've taken the handle off the door for evidence?  I have seen some garage doors with the handle that high (of course, I've been looking lately).
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on October 23, 2012, 07:30:56 PM
Maybe it is not a hole but finger print dust, or something used to gather evidence, looks like a good place to put your hand to push the door up as you pull with the other hand?

Maybe she had just arrived home, opened the garage door but was unloading the car so left it in driveway, perp was with her? Or enetered as she was making trips in and out the door?

I would think if perp knew her and her habits he would have closed the door so not to attract attention.

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2012, 08:01:15 PM
It is believed and alluded to by the cops, that she was murdered in her townhouse. She was deceased before she left her townhouse.  An outside crime would have attracted neighbours.
It happened in the wee hours, IMO, when neighbours were sleeping, and when they woke up, then they noticed, garge door opened, recalled screams coming from her townhouse. 

About the argueing back and forth, and screeching of a vehicle?  I now am beginning to think that this coincidental!
About the screams being heard from her townhouse, now that I will buy! Short screams, not enough to wake people up next door to her.

She never had a chance.
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on October 23, 2012, 08:21:27 PM
JB, was your comment regarding my post? I understand our assumption of where she may have died and do not think I made any comments toward an other scenario of where she died. I was only talking about the door and how he may have gained entry.

Sorry if you did not mean for you post to come off as authoritative  ( exclamation point at the end of your first sentence) and to make me feel as if my posts should be disregarded, that I am not following or do not know the "said" facts but that is how it felt when I read your post.


Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on October 23, 2012, 08:33:40 PM
I see you changed you post and added more detail JB again I made no mention of an outside attack. 

Also it was said very ealry in the investigation that a loud party was happening in the complex, most neighbors would think any noise or rukus was coming from the party and not pay attention.

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on October 23, 2012, 11:49:00 PM
Maybe it is not a hole but finger print dust, or something used to gather evidence, looks like a good place to put your hand to push the door up as you pull with the other hand? Logical

Sounds reasonable to me.  From what I've just read, fingerprint dust is extremely hard to get off.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2012, 12:22:17 PM
Logical re your post "JB, was your comment regarding my post? I understand our assumption of where she may have died and do not think I made any comments toward an other scenario of where she died. I was only talking about the door and how he may have gained entry.

Sorry if you did not mean for you post to come off as authoritative  ( exclamation point at the end of your first sentence) and to make me feel as if my posts should be disregarded, that I am not following or do not know the "said" facts but that is how it felt when I read your post." unquote

Did not mean to come off as being authoritative - sorry if I came off that way., Logical  :)
Was not even thinking about you when I posted that she was murdered in her home.  In previous posts, some of us were surmising - that she may have had an alteration outside and was murdered there.


I knew from articles that Sonia had problems previously with neighbours a few doors down with partying - however, they are no longer there. (or the impression was given that they moved prior to her death). 

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 24, 2012, 02:28:04 PM
Takes awhile at times to get used to how each other speaks on here. I know JB can be a little emotional about the unsolved and reflects in puctuation maybe more than intended. I have done the same responding to earlier or unfinished posts and points myself only later to go back and realize they could be taken out of context by virtue others have posted in the interim. Both Logical and yourself JB are fair minded and needn't get too concerned! Seems more a reminder of something to be aware "punctuation/ inflection/= perception"
JB-
Quote
I knew from articles that Sonia had problems previously with neighbours a few doors down with partying - however, they are no longer there. (or the impression was given that they moved prior to her death). 


My perception from the articles was that the partiers had moved only after Sonia was killed. But I am not sure the time involved..

Dannybam, wondered if LE checked foot size first before requesting a dna sample or if that were somewhat secondary? I take it you fit a 10/ 10 half? Have you ever gone to Marks and tried on that brand and size boot just for comparison sake?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 24, 2012, 04:17:48 PM
Dannybam:  No fumbling on the murder's part in my opinion.  He simply opened the garage, after he carried her out, left her on the ground - drove her car out - placed her in the car, or trunk and drove off, and did not bother to close the garage door, as he had to get the heck out of there. Or - he first went out - opened the garage door, drove her car out, went back to the front hall entry, her wrapped up in her quilt and bedsheet, and carried her out of the front door, and placed her in the car, and left the garage door open and took off.
If I was the killer, I would have done the latter.  Get the car out first!! Get things prepared to transport her.
But, I don't believe that he did the latter.  He wasn't as neat as we like to think.  I think that he took her out first, Note pillow case on ground, then got the car out and then placed her in the car, and then transported her.

Just my opinion of course.

JB


JB----I agree with the scenario that the perp did organize his exit with Sonia (preparing the car before taking her outside)----to do otherwise would create a larger chance of someone seeing something.  I still believe he was organized enough after the crime to cover his steps.  We do not know how long he had in the house to interfere with the crime scene and wash up any evidence as all we know is that the bf talked to Sonia that night on the phone around 11-11:30pm and some neighbours saw her in the evening/afternoon? There are huge amounts of time in the evening or night that are not accounted for when the perp could have initiated/finished his plan. I still believe it was a case of spurned love gone wrong. JMO
 
modified spelling error
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 25, 2012, 05:05:25 AM
The garage looks pretty small, one of my kids has a small garage too.....just big enough to put the car in and walk around it, but just barely.   If the garage door was opened there would be a few feet between the back of the car and the door.

Seems to me I see dirt on the driveway....dirt that would sit there from tires....but it is very close to the garage.

Is there a law that there has to be 2 doors in a garage?  The big one, and then a regular door?  Two of my kids has a door into the house, the other has a door to outside.   (and I never got that garage I wanted...)  I cannot think of anyone that doesn't have 2 doors....can you people think of anyone?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on October 25, 2012, 05:09:28 AM
Town houses from my experience do not have a door that goes into the house , only one to outside from the six different town house complexes I have owned in at least JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 25, 2012, 05:16:15 AM
Sonia's townhouse is attached to the neighbour's...so there can't be a door on that side.   So, the only place she could have a door is at the back of the garage, or one into her house.

My sis has a townhouse, set up like Sonia's and she has a door into the house....not much room, mind you, but there is one.
 It is bugging me, because I am thinking there had to have been two doors.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2012, 02:44:09 PM
Sonia's townhouse is attached to the neighbour's...so there can't be a door on that side.   So, the only place she could have a door is at the back of the garage, or one into her house.

My sis has a townhouse, set up like Sonia's and she has a door into the house....not much room, mind you, but there is one.
 It is bugging me, because I am thinking there had to have been two doors.

Door into the house from the garage?  That is bugging me too.
But I'll go along with Eyeswideopen experience living in like townhouses, that she,  perhaps did not have a side door leading into her garage.

Bloody footprints were found outside on her front porch - so am thinking that a) she didn't have a side door, or the killer didn't know that she had a side door.  I am leaning towards "she didn't have a side door".
Still bugs me though - how well did he know her townhouse?

There has been a concerted, and forceful effort by law enforcement to find her killer, and the "concentric circle widens to 700, as we have last been told."

I just have this hunkering feeling that he had nothing to do with dating sites, and that is why so far nothing?

I think that when he is caught, people will be surprised.  It is to my mind, the killer lives or lived  closer to home (her immediate surrounding area, within a 5 km radius).

Someone who has watched her go by.  Knew in the last month of her life, that she worked regular hours just like most people, and would be home at nite.  Someone who saw her turn her bedroom lights off.

I simply cannot see someone living say, an hour's drive away or more, waiting for the opportunity to;

1.  Keep checking Sonia's door to see if she left it  unlocked. (He would of been noticed,by someone with that repetitive action?)

2. Driving back and forth constantly to see if she was home - especially if he thought that she was still working at the hospital and worked shift work, and then driving back home?

It doesn't make any sense to me, other than he lived somewhere close to her.

In the end, should the killer be caught, there is perhaps a very simple answer, ie - geographic location, motive and so on, which could  peel away the complexity of it all.

Usually, this is often the case in most murders - ie: the victim knew her killer, or was acquainted with her killer, and visa versa, of which the police have stated in the murder of Sonia. Just my opinion of course.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on October 25, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
Why nothing?  Because it is probably someone they would least expect....like a respected professional.

I shouldn't say that because I am not even sure I believe it.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2012, 07:25:56 PM
To Joojoo: We do not know how long he had in the house to interfere with the crime scene and wash up any evidence as all we know is that the bf talked to Sonia that night on the phone around 11-11:30pm and some neighbours saw her in the evening/afternoon? There are huge amounts of time in the evening or night that are not accounted for when the perp could have initiated/finished his plan. I still believe it was a case of spurned love gone wrong. JMO Unquote,

The bolding is done on my part/jb

Good point!!
There is a gap in time from when she left her folks home "sometime in the afternoon" and seen in " early evening" at her home. 
JB






Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2012, 08:04:49 PM
Why nothing?  Because it is probably someone they would least expect....like a respected professional.

I shouldn't say that because I am not even sure I believe it.



Good point jobo!  Someone whom is respected! Someone whom the police would never think of of requesting their dna.Who would ever think to ask??

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on October 26, 2012, 05:27:09 PM
I actually believe the person was waiting for Sonia. Because of the damage to the garage, by a fist, so it is kind of suggested. This was one angry individual. Was it someone that Sonia said no to. She may have met them on line, but they found out where she lived. The brazen part about taking her in her car, that's the part that really gets to me. I believe the person that committed this crime was totally in a rage, they had excessive alcohol or drugs in their system. That is usually what gets the adrenalin pumped on anger, liquor or drugs. This person was bent on hurting Sonia. Now let's find out who did this, police, there is someone right in front of you that did this. You have possibly interviewed them. It maybe a friend of a friend of Sonia's. The answer is right in front of you, I believe. Go over the clues, every one meticiulously, I believe the clue is there for Sonia's killer. It's the brazen part of this that gets to me. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 26, 2012, 07:45:33 PM
QUOTE: "The brazen part about taking her in her car, that's the part that really gets to me. I believe the person that committed this crime was totally in a rage, they had excessive alcohol or drugs in their system. That is usually what gets the adrenalin pumped on anger, liquor or drugs"

Cape --
I think a lot about how "neatly" the car was parked where it was found, and how, despite cameras in the area, nothing was caught on tape. I also think about how, had the perp NOT taken Sonia's vehicle, he would have had to walk to his home or to his car; he must have been covered in blood. Instead, he rode in the protection of a vehicle -- a method of avoiding detection AND a means for securing immediate getaway if detected. I am not lauding his actions but rather expressing how I have never been able to understand the police profile. Removing Sonia from her home meant a massive delay in launching the murder investigation. It bought him time to construct an alibi, heal from possible scratches or other signs of involvement, and degrade evidence. So -- I guess we are of different opinions. I know there are others who feel as you do, and I totally respect your consistent assertion, but I just can't get there.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on October 26, 2012, 09:12:50 PM
Good points on here---after reading them I still see the perp as someone who lost it and then meticulously dealt with the crime scene while thinking things through. I still wonder if in fact he was covered in blood, as he could have cleaned up in the house before moving Sonia to the rural road scene.  This may be why any witnesses would not have suspected him. It doesn't seem logical for the perp to go to such lengths to deal with the crime scenes while covered in blood. I'm thinking after the rage that his mind went into an unemotional organized state to deal with his crime and cover his back. JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on October 26, 2012, 09:38:21 PM
Good points on here---after reading them I still see the perp as someone who lost it and then meticulously dealt with the crime scene while thinking things through. I still wonder if in fact he was covered in blood, as he could have cleaned up in the house before moving Sonia to the rural road scene. 

JooJoo: I definitely think rage is an issue, too -- in the action of the crime itself; Sonia's murder by all counts was brutal and that suggests to me utter loss of control. But I am still of two minds about premeditation.

But I do believe this perp is largely able to hide these rages and presents as innocuous; I'm not sure he "blends in" exactly because I wonder if he might actually be recognized as a leader in his community, or workplace, or.....

Re: cleanup at her home: I haven't responded to this speculation which has appeared here before. But, given my own profile of this perp as largely a coldly logical individual (perhaps even with emergency or leadership training) my feeling is he would have a good sense that "cleanup" in an environment he cannot fully control actually potentiates the obverse effect. There is quite often evidentiary material at crime scenes discovered expressly by rushed attempts to eliminate it.  He would limit his time there post-crime.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on October 27, 2012, 06:22:22 AM
Thank you JB, I truly respect your response to my post, i am sure we could have bickered back and forth in our comments to one another. I think I was a little defensive, why I have no idea. and D1 thank you for reminding us that speaking a sentence and typing a sentence are not always interpreted the same. most likely I responded with a lot of emotion as well, sorry to have laid that on you JB.

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2012, 05:47:59 PM
Logical:  Don't concern yourself about it! There, I have used an exclamation point, because I am sincere in what I just said.
Gosh, the written word is so complicated.  I mean, my writting skills, may not be quite up to snuff, in that it may be easy for many to  misinterpret any of my responses.  You are not the first!
Would you believe?  I am slowly making an improvement?  ;)
I speak with a soft voice, and do have inflections in my speech -
However, the written word is completely different.  So on my part, it is learn, as I go. ;D

Take care, :) Back to Sonia. I think we are making some headway here on her thread - at last!!
Thanks Logical for your insightful and thoughtful contributions.
I look forward to reading more of them.
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on October 30, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
Soccermom, I do believe this person knew Sonia and waited for her. I can't get my mind around that he didn't know her. As I stated long before on another murder case, when the female was taken from her home, the profiler stated that it was to distance himself from the victim. And in that case, it was someone she knew and they did get their man. In some way, this person knew Sonia. What was the anger about, that is the question? Angry enough to kill and in plain view of a highly populated area. We see it in so many cases, A MAN THAT CANNOT TAKE REJECTION.  Other then that, this could have been a thrill killing by someone as an initiation of such and to murder an individual, I know that sounds off the wall, but it is not the first time this kind of crime has been committed. Hoping   that there will be answers and that this case will not run cold and be unsolved. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on October 30, 2012, 10:51:36 PM
I did backread some pages in the first thread, but I don't recall if it was ever stated that Sonia's purse was found, etc. Either he had already gained entry before Sonia came home from her parents or he surprised her at the door. Did he know where Sonia kept her keys or did they happen to be in her purse and handy? I think also he knew Sonia somehow and knew where she kept her keys as I can't see him going through all that violence and then having to search for her car keys. To me it seems like someone who knew her ritual ... where she puts her purse and keys when she arrives home. jmho
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 01, 2012, 01:19:27 PM
So far, in looking over so much material on her site, I am slowly coming to some conclusions, or other opinions have cemented my thoughts through agreement.
About the garage - I will go with Eyeswideopen that she did not have an entrance out to her garage.
She had placed the blue box in her garage, rather than keep it in her tiny kitchen.
That is why the killer had to remove her from the home out of her front door.

Car keyes - have always bothered me.
I agree therefore, with SAP, that he knew where she kept them - in her purse perhaps -

By leaving her car in the garage, she would have come into the front door, and maybe would have dropped her things in the front hall closet everyday.  We are creatures of habit.  Just my opinion.

Why walk down the long front hallway and place a purse in full view in the tiny kitchen, when, a fast drop off point would be the bottom or the top of the front hall closet? 

Nurses are usually neat.  Her home was described as being neat and orderly (without the crime scene). So in being neat and tidy, she would be neat and tidy with her purse and keyes.
Not saying that it is a fact, just a strong feeling tugging at me, which says that this was not someone who met her a few on-line dates, but who observed regular habits.
JB
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 01, 2012, 01:37:09 PM
sorry, JB -- I was posting exactly the same time as you! ITA.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 01, 2012, 02:05:06 PM
I wonder where the speculation youth offender is coming from?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 01, 2012, 02:17:55 PM
I'm not sure either, Discus. I don't know if there is any "insider" info, only that there has been a lot of discussion as on here and on WS of the perp as possibly a young person, given interpretations of the perp's behaviour at the scenes. If there's more to it than that, I'm not in the loop.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 01, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
Why nothing?  Because it is probably someone they would least expect....like a respected professional.

I also wonder about that as well Jobo.
In addition, her own family close to Bolton,  were having problems with a gravel site been worked on by a company, right next door to them. Many arguments ensued as to the noise.  The company finally packed up and left.
I am not saying that they were involved, but there was contention floating around in Sonia's life prior to her last days.
Whoever the killer was, to my mind knew that she was now at home during regular hours (no longer working shift work at the hospital  as a nurse).
The last month when she was sure to be home every night,  made her vulnerable. And the killer was aware of her new schedule.   Just my own personal opinion.

JB
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 01, 2012, 05:04:29 PM
It still comes down to - Time - Place - and Opportunity. 

That is why I firmly believe that he lived within her area.

Can't see anyone from out of town looking for opportunity.  Too far to drive there.
He (an out of towner)  would not  have access of - time, place and opportunity day after day to "catch her"

I think, someone living close by, or someone in observing her new schedule would know.
Just my own opinion.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on November 01, 2012, 09:10:20 PM
Great comments from everyone---if we believe that the perp lived close and stalked Sonia this would probably be pre-meditation. If the perp met up with her socially, then the perp could have been from outside the area and the crime may not have been pre-meditated but escalated as things didn't go his way. JMO Thoughts? I'm not sure which scenario I believe. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 01, 2012, 10:05:14 PM
JooJoo -- ITA. I wonder if Sonia was attacked while she was sleeping, because we haven't had (much) iinfo about a struggle in her home -- that is, of Sonia fighting back. So I think premed is a possibility. But it's not impossible that the perp was someone known to Sonia or who felt he knew her (watching her) and things did not go as he planned (she rebuffed him). It feels impossible to know. I believe both possibilities.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: RebeccaB on November 02, 2012, 02:54:05 PM
So far, in looking over so much material on her site, I am slowly coming to some conclusions, or other opinions have cemented my thoughts through agreement.
About the garage - I will go with Eyeswideopen that she did not have an entrance out to her garage.
She had placed the blue box in her garage, rather than keep it in her tiny kitchen.
That is why the killer had to remove her from the home out of her front door.

Car keyes - have always bothered me.
I agree therefore, with SAP, that he knew where she kept them - in her purse perhaps -

By leaving her car in the garage, she would have come into the front door, and maybe would have dropped her things in the front hall closet everyday.  We are creatures of habit.  Just my opinion.

Why walk down the long front hallway and place a purse in full view in the tiny kitchen, when, a fast drop off point would be the bottom or the top of the front hall closet? 

Nurses are usually neat.  Her home was described as being neat and orderly (without the crime scene). So in being neat and tidy, she would be neat and tidy with her purse and keyes.
Not saying that it is a fact, just a strong feeling tugging at me, which says that this was not someone who met her a few on-line dates, but who observed regular habits.
JB
Re: the Garage, those homes have a door going into the garage.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: RebeccaB on November 02, 2012, 03:52:12 PM
Thank you for clarifying this Rebecca; I assume you live in the area.
Sonia usually parked her car in the garage; why was the car parked outside this particular evening?  Or did the perp pull the car out of the garage and transport Sonia via the front door?  I think we have concluded the garage door was damaged, maybe he couldn't figure out how to open the garage door?
I know these homes. Perhaps someone was in front of her house when she got home, or she may have had to manually open the garage door. Also her cat was loose, he may have been loose earlier and when she got home she saw him, stopped to get him. ( a lot of speculation I know)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 02, 2012, 05:54:20 PM

I know these homes.
[/quote]

Hey Rebecca!  Could you tell us how well you know these homes?  Have you been inside of one of the houses in Sonia's row?  That could be very useful.

Thanks!
DB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: RebeccaB on November 02, 2012, 07:24:39 PM
I mis spoke about the door!! I went back to look at the picture of her house. The garage is pushed too far in front.
There was another home in her row that had a door but the garage wasn't as far in front.
Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 03, 2012, 01:29:24 PM
RebbeccaB: So do you think she had a door leading into the garage?
Thank you for your input. It means alot.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: RebeccaB on November 03, 2012, 01:48:15 PM
RebbeccaB: So do you think she had a door leading into the garage?
Thank you for your input. It means alot.

JB
I am now not sure, I have to go to the county of dufferin this week, while I am there I will see if I can confirm it. They may have a floor plan of her house.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 03, 2012, 02:35:31 PM
RebeccaB:  We all thank you for your help, and look forward to your answer, as to the mystery as to whether she had a door leading into her garage, and anything else that you can provide.

Sincerely,
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 03, 2012, 02:52:45 PM
Seriously, thanks and welcome, Rebecca!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on November 04, 2012, 01:14:43 PM
Welcome Rebecca.

New members with new info/ideas is refreshing. I have been thinking about a door going into the garage and wondering why the perp took Sonia out the front door? 
If there was a door going into the garage there are a few reasons he probably didn't use it...

1) The car was parked forward so the trunk would have been at the door of the garage.
2) It was too cramped to carry her through and would have left more evidence.

I still think that AG and Sonia's cases are connected, just not sure why.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 04, 2012, 08:27:44 PM
Another scenario: we don't know for sure Sonia's car was parked in the garage that day/evening, do we? I don't think that was ever confirmed. It was her habit to park in the gararge, IIRC, but.....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2012, 01:14:32 AM
I thought in one of the pictures of the garage, there was dirt spots, like from tires.   Marks that appear in the driveway if you park in the same spot regularily.  Anyone else notice?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: RebeccaB on November 05, 2012, 02:47:14 PM
Another scenario: we don't know for sure Sonia's car was parked in the garage that day/evening, do we? I don't think that was ever confirmed. It was her habit to park in the gararge, IIRC, but.....
I haven't found the floor plans, but I have spoken to people who know these units~(i was in the ones with different elevations) The only way that a garage door access would be in these units is if they were modified after, and that is improbable because of the layout. Note** when sonia went missing, her garage door was left open. And her cat was outside~took days for her neighbours and family to catch it. I think the cat is a clue only because I believe the front door would have had to be open long enough for the cat to get out, when the killer was moving her body.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 05, 2012, 08:06:52 PM
unless Sonia often let her cat out at night ... but just also was able to let her back in? Wasn't hers an outdoor cat?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 05, 2012, 08:10:20 PM
I thought in one of the pictures of the garage, there was dirt spots, like from tires.   Marks that appear in the driveway if you park in the same spot regularily.  Anyone else notice?

i think you're right, Jobo -- I seem to remember someone saying it was Sonia's habit to park in the garage. I think it might even have been someone from here. But it's not impossible she may have left the car outside; it was a late summer eve and I believe the weather was good. It's so hard to know! I wish there was a neighbour who could confirm....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 06, 2012, 06:46:29 PM
I didn't clarify properly what I meant, sorry.  I meant the marks from the tires were in front of the garage, on the driveway....(I thought I saw)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 06, 2012, 06:56:43 PM
It would seem there are marks in front of, and inside the garage.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 07, 2012, 06:46:12 AM
Thanks Dannybam...that is the picture of the driveway I was referring to.   Seems to have dirt marks from the tires....and you're right, tracks in the garage as well.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 07, 2012, 03:31:04 PM
I wish I could find it again ( a news article, whereby a neighbour noticed that her garage door was open in the morning, and stated that  Sonia always closed her garage door.).  Neighbours also said that Sonia  usually parked her car in the garage.
I think that she did park her car in that garage that nite.  She would definately have closed that garage door.
If she had parked in the driveway, and did not park it that nite in her garage, then her garage door would have remained closed. In othe words, Sonia never left her garage door open and unattended.
It has been suggested that police opened the garage door, but this does not hold up - as it was a neighbour who noticed Monday morning that Sonia's garage door was open.  It was an oddity - beyond the usual, that the neighbour recalled.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 08, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
HOPING, AND HOPING that the police can solve this.  If I recall, their last statement was, Suspect, or Suspects,
and that they will not give out the location nor locations. Are they looking for more than one person? or are they adding the plural to throw the public off?
Is it possible that two people were involved?
What do you think?
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 08, 2012, 06:47:49 PM
Hi JB, the link you provided is a Norah Jones song on Utube. 
I'm very curious about "suspects".
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 09, 2012, 06:12:20 PM
Discus:  Thanks for pointing out my giving a u-tube connection to Nora Jones - I guess I parked my brain with my car keys when I came in the door.   Funny.  I guess I truly love her voice. lol. Maybe a family member might give me a Nora Jones CD for Xmas! ;) ;D
I removed that link, and thank you. :-[

Yes, in the last interview, which was given by LE on the 2nd year of her death, they said Suspect or Suspects, and we will not go to Location or Locations. (Meaning that the subject was out of bounds to the reporters that were present at the time.

Although, they always speak about one killer, perhaps they are not ruling out that there were two people involved.
- Suspect or Suspects.
Here is the last word by Law Enforcement, when they did the search at the swamp area on August 29th of this year.
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/222078
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 10, 2012, 02:10:06 PM
It's so hard to know what LE's theories are in the careful media speak of its representatives. I wish, if LE suspects there is more than 1 person involved, that there would be some direct reference to this. For example: if there IS any evidence to suggest more than 1 perp, then that could prompt new tips, new info, from folks who might be thinking what doesn't sit to  right to them doesn't fit a single-attacker scenario....
We need to remove all obstacles for people calling in tips.
But: I suspect the plural language may be the result of media training -- you know, being careful to cover all bases so as not to slip. Yet if I'm wrong and LE is considering there may have been more than 1 person at work here, I imagine it would be more useful to say this than to hide it from the public. Maybe media attention could put pressure on one of them; maybe one of them has more conscience than the other .....
I hope the confidence of Inspector Dobbin will prove true. I do believe LE feels as passionately as the rest of us about solving. If only someone would come forward with just the right tip!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 11, 2012, 02:35:14 PM
I wish, if LE suspects there is more than 1 person involved, that there would be some direct reference to this. For example: if there IS any evidence to suggest more than 1 perp, then that could prompt new tips, new info, from folks who might be thinking what doesn't sit to  right to them doesn't fit a single-attacker scenario....
We need to remove all obstacles for people calling in tips.
But: I suspect the plural language may be the result of media training -- you know, being careful to cover all bases so as not to slip. Yet if I'm wrong and LE is considering there may have been more than 1 person at work here, I imagine it would be more useful to say this than to hide it from the public. Maybe media attention could put pressure on one of them; maybe one of them has more conscience than the other .....

Hard to say if a second person is involved. It is a remote possibility that there is, or at the very least, a second person became involved after the fact.  One of the clues, potentially, is when LE asked early on in the investigation for  the public to keep their ears close to the ground, as they may overhear a conversation.  That rather stunned me!

I wonder if the suspect or suspects have willingly given their dna.  If they have, then surely the results would be in by now.  If they have not given it, then they might be called a suspect or suspects? If I recall, LE alluded to that fact, (becoming a suspect) if they did not cooperate.
My question is, how valuable to this investigation are these suspects? Is there further evidence ie (motive etc.) that would make them so - or is it only because they refused to give their DNA?

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on November 16, 2012, 07:44:27 PM
I don't think that this crime was done alone,  I never have.  Part 1 reply#1551. "She knew her killers." I think she knew them well."
 I also don't think they have given their DNA, as of yet. A couple of hours outside of Orangeville perhaps.? JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 17, 2012, 01:56:32 PM
If there are more than one person involved, this is a way different situation with likely a much different motive than we have taken into account. It is possible but I think it is only due to lack of information progress and resolution that leads in that direction right now. There were but one set of boot prints. The Police do seem stumped and at a standstill. Apparently all leads and all potential suspects would have been tested by now. 

Police say they will not talk about suspect(s) or location(s). At the same time they will not speak to the obvious questions that should be answered either. That provides a cloak of secrecy to be placed over the original investigation and investigators. I believe they know what happened here, I don't believe we are going to be told. I believe the dna process is a ruse, they are not testing 700 plus and continuing to test more. To dupe the killer into believing the ruse, the public has to play along. Whos being duped the killer or us? Time's up imo. Whatever the plan was, it isn't working, it isn't going to work.

Totally agree its time the media put on some fresh shorts and revisited this one. Something lurks behind the scenes here that LE does not want let out of the bag. jmo they know way more than we are being told.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on November 17, 2012, 08:10:10 PM
Surely of all the men who Sonia knew there must be a way to narrow this number down based on which ones wore boots of the type and the size of the print that was found. Or maybe Sonia met so many patients through her work as a nurse that they cannot track down all of them? Where are the police at with the dna testing of the local population?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 18, 2012, 04:59:09 PM
D1,

You and I are almost in total agreement:

The investigation is at a standstill due to a lack of information.  The DNA process is a ruse.

Where we differ, is in my opinion that LE don't know much more than they're sharing with us.  They have never had DNA evidence.  The murderer wasn't sloppy (with the exceptions of blood evidence outside the house and on the car, a scream or two from Sonia, and poor disposal of her body).  What LE aren't sharing with us, is whatever information the employees of the tack shop were fired for sharing.  I've come to believe (from the "other" murder site) that this information is the original location of Sonia's disposed-of car. 

Law enforcement has made a very good bluff in hopes of insulting and startling the perpetrator.  I hope it has panned out for them, and I'm only being considered as a possible co-conspirator.  I wish there was a way to help them.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 18, 2012, 07:23:51 PM
I follow the idea and the use of a ruse in regard the dna. A killer could never be absolutely sure he had not left some evidence behind no matter how meticulous he was.

But to use the illusion of dna availability to spook or incite a poi into action or coverup while they watch suggests they must have someone in mind to watch.

Even if LE thought they had a poi to work that ruse on, it seems not to have panned out the way they planned at least not yet anyway. Maybe the poi left the country unexpectedly or did something as a result the ploy and as far as Canada is concerned their problem is looked after. What else could they do if they don't actually have dna or any other conclusive evidence? Maybe there is some explanation for the stalemate in what we know?   

I believe there is more upside to be had by releasing more information and seeking a means to flesh out the case by procedures other than just dna. (whether they have the dna evidence or not)

It is a bit troubling to think of all the implications along that line of thought on dna DB but I still believe they would have to have someone specific in mind to have gone that route. I am a little confused by one sentence you left. Can you add a little more explanation? 
Quote
I've come to believe (from the "other" murder site) that this information is the original location of Sonia's disposed-of car. 


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 18, 2012, 07:40:44 PM
Indeed they have had at least one person to watch... namely, me.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 19, 2012, 02:36:31 PM
If the facts of the case are not being portrayed accurately or portions are being secreted, that does hamper getting anymore public input. Time goes by and memories fade especially over any seemingly inconseqential unconnected events that may have been witnessed. It becomes too late to change gears and adjust the direction of the investigation the longer it goes.

I'm not sure why you believe yourself to be the object of Police attention anymore DB, seems you should have been cleared conclusively by providing a dna sample. Are you saying that they still have an interest in you despite supposedly being cleared by dna? Is that why you believe all the dna testing is not what it seems?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 19, 2012, 05:34:58 PM
The misconception that all murders are solvable; the insistence that if the cards were played correctly, a killer would be exposed, is unfair.  Sometimes, there just isn't enough to go on, and cases go unsolved.  This killer doesn't seem to have been terribly careful, but maybe he was just fast and lucky.  My situation certainly helped him out, quite a bit.

In my opinion, LE had less information than they've pretended to have, and it was probably their best play.  At this point, they've startled as many rabbits out of the bramble bush as are going to jump, and LE is hurting their own investigation by withholding details from the public.

I won't go into detail about the investigations surrounding me, or how I have known of it, until I have proper council to give evidence to.  I expect that to be in the spring.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 19, 2012, 07:28:40 PM
Fair enough DB, you have been very helpful despite all that hanging over you. And I do agree the illusion all cases are solvable, just like to see the very best attempt made utilizing every part. If they are stuck down one dead end avenue the earlier it is recognized the better the chance for another. I too hope they are entertaining other ideas and contemplating additional disclosure.
Quote
At this point, they've startled as many rabbits out of the bramble bush as are going to jump, and LE is hurting their own investigation by withholding details from the public.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on November 19, 2012, 09:40:43 PM
The police have one piece of evidence, the boot print:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/858113--footprint-may-lead-to-sonia-s-killer-opp

This is also another "mistake" the killer made.

Are you that size shoe by chance, dannybam, and is that partly why you fell on the radar?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 20, 2012, 12:28:05 AM
I personally don't beleive that DB had anything to do with the murder of Sonia.  I  for my own reasons will state that flatly out.  This killer, has been very quiet, would never come onto a website, such as this.

Seems to me, that letters going out to the  men after dna testing  are long overdue. 

DB is still waiting for his, I suspect, don't know, and I also suspect that the backlog of testing of these men, will take some time. -  Meanwhile, any man with a sense of civic duty, with a forthright manner of offering their DNA are being held in limbo, hostage if you will.

Does LE intend to wait and do a mass mailout for those 700 so far, to let them know that they are "off the hook?" After all they did give their word that a letter would be sent out to them, after the dna testing was done to absolve them from this horrific murder.

What is their (LE)  plan?

Since LE had made a public statement about collecting dna from men.,  I think they should make a public statement as to their internal system about letting these men know that they are  "Off the hook", and announce  when they can expect their letters of absolvement from the murder of Sonia.

Is it going to be after the dna proves negative?  Or to save money will it be a mass mailout from their data system?   I think I am asking a very valid question here.

Until these men receive such letters, they are held hostage to the murder of Sonia Varaschin - and will be suspect.
This, by the very fact that they were tracked down to give their dna, and not ever meeting her, still must give them angst.
We should really think about that.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 20, 2012, 12:23:20 PM
I have copied a post by jobo (thanks jobo) which was left on this thread and prompted a conversation in regard to Penny Warne. That conversation including the original post, has been moved to Penny's thread at the link below.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2684.0[/ (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2684.0[/)

Quote
I am posting this news article on Sonia's thread.....as this incident was not too far from Orangeville...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1289503--stranded-motorist-escapes-from-pickup-truck-after-abduction

Stranded motorist escapes from pickup truck after abduction

Published on Sunday November 18, 2012


Police are looking for the driver of a light blue pickup truck after a stranded motorist was abducted and assaulted Thursday night in Dufferin County.

A Shelburne woman was driving home around 10 p.m. when her vehicle broke down on a back road in Amaranth Township about a kilometre from her house.

Police said a man in an older model pickup stopped and offered her help. The woman asked him for a ride home and got into the truck.

When the man didn’t drive her to her house, she got scared and tried to get out of the truck at a yield sign, police said.

The man grabbed her by the arm and sped up, police said. He then assaulted her and drove around the area’s back roads for about two hours before the woman finally escaped, police said.

Police are looking for a man about 70 years old with unkempt white or grey hair, a moustache and rotten teeth.

At the time of the attack he was wearing dirty jeans, a plaid shirt, navy vest and mesh farmer hat, police said.

Police are asking anyone with information to contact the OPP at 1-888-310-1122. Crime Stoppers can be reached at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS) or online at www.crimestoppersdm.com.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 20, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
The misconception that all murders are solvable; the insistence that if the cards were played correctly, a killer would be exposed, is unfair.  Sometimes, there just isn't enough to go on, and cases go unsolved.  This killer doesn't seem to have been terribly careful, but maybe he was just fast and lucky.  My situation certainly helped him out, quite a bit.

In my opinion, LE had less information than they've pretended to have, and it was probably their best play.  At this point, they've startled as many rabbits out of the bramble bush as are going to jump, and LE is hurting their own investigation by withholding details from the public.

I won't go into detail about the investigations surrounding me, or how I have known of it, until I have proper council to give evidence to.  I expect that to be in the spring.

My my Dannybam; you certainly are in a pickle. As you said you suspect that they do not have dna - that it is a ruse.
Why would they bother collecting it?  Why use up the manpower in collecting it, and use the lab's time, if they do not have it?  I don't understand.........

You stated that you cannot go into it any further, re: they are watching you - and that you are deemed a co-conspirator in her murder, if I have read you correctly, you have gone from being a suspect to a co-conspirator.
That would entail two people people involved in the death of Sonia (perhaps?)

Let's hope that the dna is not a ruse - but a fact -

The Orangeville Police were tramping throughout her place, before forensics were called in.  It stands to reason that their actions muddled the murder scene.

About the two women who were fired from the TAC shop?  They were fired, I think, because they were asked not to say anything to the press - and they did speak to the press. 
Oh, but I do wonder about that TAC shop.  I always have.

This profile so widely paraded  with pride by Law Enforcement, quite frankly was a public disappointment, and so far, has served no purpose. So much for profiling.  A 3 day conference no less, and this is what the public was presented with?  Kindergarten stuff?? At public expense?
Heavens, this profile could fit anyone.

I agree with you DB, that LE really have little to go on, as to my way of thinking, the original crime scene in her home was scewed by Orangeville Police stomping around the interior and exterior of her home.

The original press conferece, regarding the collection of dna, was to take two weeks.  Now out of desperation, they have expanded it so far outward that it borders on the unbelievable.

They have collected very little from the original crime scene, they do not seem to even have a motive, but are focusing on boot prints from a very popular store MWW, along with dna without a known donor. 700 men and counting.

There is an old saying if it doesn't work the first time, and after repeated attempts, only a fool would continue on and end up each time with the same results. While there is such a thing as persistence, which we admire and think of it as a positive quality, in time, by repeated attempts and meeting with failed results, a bright individual might take another "look at it" and take a different avenue.

I have always felt that a fresh approach should be taken.  A new team of detectives with fresh eyes should be brought in.  Put down those swabs, and truly have a fresh look at this case.

I realize that you cannot give any further details to us, and we wouldn't expect you to.  Your statement about giving evidence to council, perhaps in the Spring - surprises me.

By all of your postings you appear to be honest, forthright, curious as to the facts,  and have a desire to see the killer caught. Your reasons are even greater than us, who are only seeking justice.
While you may also seek justice, I think you will be relieved when the killer is caught.
I can't even begin to imagine your angst.

Take care

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 23, 2012, 12:24:54 AM
Hello all,

[quote
Are you that size shoe by chance, dannybam, and is that partly why you fell on the radar?
[/quote]

I do have size ten feet.  I don't think it's helped me in any way, but it is a very common size for adult men.

[quote
Why would they bother collecting it?  Why use up the manpower in collecting it, and use the lab's time, if they do not have it? 

This profile so widely paraded  with pride by Law Enforcement, quite frankly was a public disappointment, and so far, has served no purpose.
[/quote]

I can only speak to my own experience, and that swabbing me took no more than a minute or two.  The interviewing techniques employed before the swab were of far more importance to LE than the swab itself, IMO.

Having the lofty assistance of the FBI has no doubt charmed a lot of people, both in the public, and in LE.  I think they were in a position where a strong bluff was their best play, and it failed.  Unfortunately for everyone (especially myself and my family), I was intuitive enough to realize a presence at my workplace, and couldn't discern who they were, or what their motives were. 
At the time, I had been involved in trying to find some resolution for injustices done by my employer, and somehow maintain my employment there.  When I quit to avoid what I perceived to be my coming dishonorable dismissal, I hadn't known that LE was part of the surveillance.  When the surveillance continued after I had severed all ties to Orangeville, the picture of what had been happening started to take a much different shape.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2012, 02:14:48 AM
Hey DB, no need to defend your foot size, it is pretty common. Interesting the continued interest in you despite the dna test. I understand your beliefs on the profile now. If true they have no dna, think LE will ever admit it? If true this may the first we have seen a ruse used like this to such an extent. I can imagine the uproar it would cause if known they don't really have dna. But it may also explain why the bf was allowed to leave the country apparently without even being tested himself.   

Interesting thoughts to ponder..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on November 23, 2012, 12:19:01 PM
If the claim of DNA was a ruse, and it hasn't provided any viable suspects by now, I think we can say that it won't.

If LE were to come public with that information, what could we suppose would be the results?  I think some of the repercussions would be:

-another shot at rejuvenating this case in the media (do they want that?).

-the public may have less confidence in LE's abilities.

-decreased effectiveness of this bluffing technique in future investigations.

-increased public fear (at least WITH DNA, the killer had some reason to be wary).

-there is a good chance that LE have already interviewed and/or swabbed the killer.  The net was cast wide, and they were very aggressive in persuing this case.  The killer may think that he has been cleared, genetically, and that LE are concentrating their efforts on the DNA of an innocent visitor to the home. 

-People around the killer may have had suspicions about him, that have been dissuaded by his DNA clearance.  This gamble may be preventing people from following their consciences about a loved one.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 23, 2012, 02:24:01 PM
I think it's next to impossible for the perp not to have left DNA evidence considering the amount of violence utilized in the crime.   Not even a strand of hair, drop of blood, saliva, sweat, mucus, skin cell, earwax left behind ?   How could this be possible?  Perhaps the crime scene was contaminated or not processed well. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2012, 06:04:26 PM
I so agree with you DB, in that the killer may be covered by a loved one.

I so agree with you as to why LE (in their pride) would not confess as to the limpness of their evidence, and to my mind, in my opinion, the lack of evidenciary evidence recovered from the scene, due to sloppy and careless police work by the Orangeville small town police who smothered the scene.

This is of no help to you, nor to anyone on their "list" or potential list coming forward.

Orangeville citizens,  were requested to report, with the slightest suspicion, to turn a name in.
And many citizens did - Each name presented came from a citizen, who wondered about a particular individual.  --- who may have worn the same type of boots, and approximate size, who missed work or school on that Monday. Gosh these boots, with the same sole imprints could be found in - hiking boots (just up to the ankle)  trucking boots - just below the knee. 

And yes, as I have learned size 10 is an average size for most men.  However, they announced size 10 or 11,
which tells me that these boot prints left at the crime scene - were not that distinct.  In other words they were faint,or smeared, and they had to guess.   Size 10 or 11.

These boot prints may even be a size 11.  Interesting to note:  that these brands of boots also come in half sizes.
Yet LE could not pinpoint the exact size.  it is anywhere from size 10 to 11.

As to age of the killer?  Their profile stated that he may have missed school - or work on Monday.
School?
They could not even figure out the age.
They are uncertain as to the exact size of the boot print.
They have dna, but it obviously does not belong to a prior criminal with a dna sample in their data bank.
They may have fingerprints, but they are not on record.
A 3 day conference, and they began taking dna tests from 18 year old men and  forward?
So much for profiling ---- in this case.  Yet the OPP will continue on with it.
They are stuck in the same mode of thinking.  Stuck in the box, by this profile.
No outward imaginative thinking  nor investigative new approaches whatsoever.
So much for the evidence found at the crime scene.

I do recall Sonia's mother saying very early on in the investigation of her daughter's brutal murder, that she, Sonia's mother hopes that justice will come in her lifetime.  Perhaps in her wisdom, Michelle Varaschin  had it correctly the first time around.
Now don't get me wrong - I do admire LE's determination and hard work in getting this solved, but as DI said, it would be nice if more of this profile would be given to the public.  Even if it is only one other item on their profile list, which could be of great assistance to the public, rather than turning people in helter skelter.

Quite frankly, in my opinion,  this murder is fading in people's memories.  Life goes on, and Orangeville citizens are getting on with their lives. That is what we all have to do in the end.
JB





Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2012, 01:28:37 PM
http://inmemoryofsonia.com/

Her memory and bursaries for nursing are still continuing on in her name. 

JB
Ps. Law enforcement are truly grasping at staws here.  Oh my gosh! They just finished testing a man with a 9 1/2 sized boot who lives in orangeville, who purchased these boots from MWW in 2009,  and took a cheek swab,and aked him where he was that nite, two years later! So even the sized boots are getting smaller. And --- who an the heck can remember what they did that nite, or where they were that nite two years ago!!
I couldn't - could you?

My gosh - the boot size by the profile given to the public was size 10 or 11.  Not 9 or a half.  As I have said before these boots size do come in half sizes.  Big jump from 9 and a half to size 10, and a quantum leap to size 11, of which the profiile gave size 10 to 11.  Now they are testing 9 and a half?

In case anyone is wondering, I read this information from WS - from the ex wife, whos ex was recently tested, and she posted this on WS.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 25, 2012, 04:53:54 PM
I don't remember what I was doing the night Sonia was murdered.  To ask people that question over 2 years after the fact, especially if you didn't know Sonia, how many people would remember what they were doing?
.....But if you did know her, perhaps you would always remember what you were doing that night.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on November 25, 2012, 08:40:09 PM
I don't think we should find fault with LE for doing a thorough job and checking out all possible suspects and their alibis.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 25, 2012, 09:15:02 PM
For my part, I don't think it's at all a stretch to think the print was a 10 or 11 boot size, but that the killer's actual foot size is smaller. If he wears thick socks in his boots, it would make sense that the boot is larger than the feet. I know Sonia was murdered in the summer, but that still doesn't necessarily rule out orthotics or comfort pads -- which could still mean a smaller foot than size. If he is a transient man, then it is also possible he acquired the boots by donation or find, rather than purchasing them at MWW -- which again could mean  a mis-fit for size. Myself, I don't think the latter, but it is a possibility.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on November 26, 2012, 05:37:11 PM
I believe LE is doing all they can too.  I don't think anyone can rest till Sonias', and some of the other cases here are solved. I think of her often.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2012, 08:03:28 PM
The Police always like to leave the impression that everything possible is being done. For the most part that is as true as their internal system allows for. They have standard practice and standard operating procedures with a pr department that covers most any situation. But they are busy and seldom customize or tailor an investigation to individual requirements. Here they did take some unusual steps or so they will have us believe. They have an old suspect profile which has not been updated since back in the early days and they claim to have dna and a boot print to go with it. The latest discussions have cast a few extra questions on the validity of all that though. As seen in the Amber Kirwan thread, many there were led to believe and assume that the Police had absolute definitive dna proof. Now it sounds not quite so definitive. 

The last straw for total trust for some here was the 2nd year anniversary of Sonia's murder with nothing more being said other than some 700 dna tests had already been administered with no apparent matches. Seemed the Police could be on some never ending unfruitful fishing trip. Questions were being asked but all that was cut short with the announcement that new information had come in and a search of a nearby pond was underway with hopes riding high once again. Then nothing afterwards but what you read here. Was all that just PR and is that fair? Hopes were dashed again, frustration sets in and trust wanes for some. Some aren't so trusting afterwards almost expecting some new "show" search next anniversary with similar results instead of any new meaningful approach never mind the release of any more information to generate new leads. . Once bit... twice shy...
I hope they have the perps dna and that it pays off for them seeing as all their eggs are in that basket but, if there are no arrests soon, its totally understandable that trust issues will arise for some under these circumstances..   ...jmo..

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 26, 2012, 09:16:59 PM
700 DNA tests done, sounds like a wild goose chase, at tax payers expense, which would be fine if they had probably cause but radom DNA tests, how likely is that  to find a killer . JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2012, 01:44:48 PM
Actually casting a big net and doing widespread random dna testing has paid off in other cases in the past. The tests supposedly being done here are not quite so random and 700 plus does indicate that whatever the Police had in mind with this has not panned out. They would likely have done just as well with random testing.

Dannybam and a few others who posted here have provided a little insight into whats going on behind the scenes. There are three markers that the Police are looking for, one the foot size and footwear, two the dna, but then that is still being followed up with questioning to rule out suspects by normal means, alibi etc. Apparently none of this has paid off.

So what now? Unless every male in the entire town/ then province/ then country/ is to be tested in some experimental process of elimination by dna crime solving tactic, it has no end in sight save to use as justification for dna warrants on the holdouts if there are any? When is enough, enough?

Even if every male in the country were tested, there is still that one strange incident of a possible poi being cleared by questioning alone and not by dna testing. That possible poi then seemed to fit into a profile developed by the fbi including moving away out of country. So even if the entire male population of Canada were to submitt a dna sample, and no match were found, it just becomes one very expensive process to justify testing that one last out of country possible poi that was allowed to evade the same standard every one else here has been held to.

Alibi's can be arranged and orchestrated especially if there was any degree of planning and premeditation involved. The original Police botched this part imo and what we are seeing now is proof of that imo. The ongoing process of elimination that we see taking place, justifies a dna test of the potential poi that left the country imo. Right now, no further dna tests are justifiable here until that is done. imo

When you are 700 plus tests out into the concentric sphere of possible poi's you have to re-evaluate how the perp slipped through the net. The big fish that may have escaped here is a no brainer imo. 

I could not solicit any further information from the media. I am a long ways away  and perhaps others may have better luck? Link to some of the media involved discussed on the last page in link below.

Any specific discussion on the un-named possible poi should go to the same link below-

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg95735#msg95735 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg95735#msg95735)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 01, 2012, 09:22:34 PM
I can't find fault with the police for the 700+ DNA tests. Shows they are making this case a high priority and so they should with a killer at large. This tactic did pay off in one case in a small British town where every man had to submit to a DNA test and they eventually flushed out the murderer. I would be willing to pay more in taxes to allow everyone in the country to be have their DNA tested. Expensive it may be, but think of the policing costs that could be saved in the future not to mention the lives that could be saved by solving crimes faster.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on December 01, 2012, 11:29:10 PM
If you consider the basic, initial investigative procedure for murder, we know that LE zero in on those closest to the victim, and those who were the last people to see the victim alive.  There is no doubt in my mind that Sonia's boyfriend was swabbed for a DNA sample which cleared him, and his whereabouts were confirmed.  That is why he was allowed to leave Canada.  We have to give the cops a little credit for not being total idiots.  Do you really think that LE would go to the extreme measures of gathering 700+ DNA samples if they hadn't already cleared the boyfriend by DNA analysis? 

HF

 

Edited to correct a word
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on December 01, 2012, 11:57:39 PM
While I think 700+ tests is excessive (and fictitious), I couldn't agree more with you, Leonagleant.  Now that the police have my DNA, and others, they might as well create a comprehensive database.  There's no reason to get rid of good information.  Maybe we're assuming too much... maybe they already do retain these records.

"It is instuctive [sic] to translate these numbers into the jargon of computer science. A base pair can have any of four possible values - A, G, C, or T - so that each base pair represents 2 bits of information. Because of the redundancy in the genetic code (3 nucleotides encode into 20 amino acids) a base represents about 1.5 bits of information. Thus the coding nucleotides represent about 30 megabytes of information."   - http://home.tiac.net/~cri/1997/genome.html

That's not very much information to store, relatively speaking.  We could store the entirety of Canada's genetic information on 1.4 petabytes of storage (and we really don't need the DNA of our senior citizens).  The cost of attaining the DNA, is relatively high.  It appears that private companies can provide DNA sequencing services for around $200.  Criminal sequences are obtained through our forensic science services, I would assume.  Seeing as that's a function of government, I find it hard to speculate whether it would cost less or more.  So, on the public market, 700 tests would cost in the neighbourhood of $140,000. 

This was a federal offense, so would the expense therefor be federal, and be spread out amongst all Canadians?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 02, 2012, 01:32:40 AM
I'm glad to hear you are cooperative and although I don't know how close you were to the victim, in any case I'm sorry for your loss and the distress that this horrible murder has no doubt caused in your life.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2012, 02:23:58 AM
The problem with the dna testing in regard the ex bf has been discussed many times already with no clarification or confirmation.

The bf was apparently cleared by way of routine questioning prior the missing bedding even being found, prior the availability of dna evidence even being known. News article below confirms the bf was not cleared by dna at the time the Police said he was cleared. Then he left the country and there is no confirmation he can be legally tested now if he wasn't before. Red tape then takes precedent over common sense.

article 09/03/2010 - http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/92218--police-looking-for-bed-sheets-in-connection-with-missing-woman (http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/92218--police-looking-for-bed-sheets-in-connection-with-missing-woman)

Quote
Investigators said Varaschin’s boyfriend of more than a year was routinely questioned and has been ruled out as a suspect.


Today out in my part of the world they arrested two men for the murder of a young woman named Maple Batalia. One man was her exboyfriend, the other an associate of the bf who not only aided in the murder but was involved in a coverup. It had been widely speculated the associate was providing an alibi for the ex bf.

Today in the US a pro NFL player killed his live in girlfriend and then turned the gun on himself. Relationships are hard, relationships gone wrong are the most common cause of acts of passion. Sonia was going to have an out of province friend visiting her that weekend. Has the bf been cleared by DNA? I don't read that, I have asked, I get no answer from the reporter who would talk to me beyond thats all we have been told, thats all we can report. "He was cleared by routine questioning"

We can assume he was tested but before we test the entire country, the media should be seeking confirmation the ex has been held to the same standard.

700 men tested means they have looked at all the viable suspects now. The perp has slipped through the net somehow. The Police have missed something or been bluffed by something imo.

The Police have let other killers leave the country before only later to find that was a mistake.

There are murder cases around the country where they claimed a backlog of dna tests had held up results in some instances for up to a year. Its time to re-evaluate where it went wrong here imo. Minus assumptions, due diligence. Recheck everything. The original investigators were replaced and maybe for good reason.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2012, 02:14:23 PM
Just to make clear, the bf may well have been properly and rightly cleared and it is just the wording of the Police press release and lack of updates since that causes the additional questioning.

Like any investigation that runs out of options and begins to grow cold, you end up having to re-evaluate and go deeper into the detail of the pieces you have to work with. In this case we have had to be a little more silent about the potential role the bf played as he has been officially cleared. But that may also be hampering efforts that could build on that information to lead elsewhere.   

As seen here but kept silent in the media, Sonia's bf apparently lived very close to where Sonia's body was found. The profile released by the Police fit in with the bf more so than any other, almost eerily so for a man who had supposedly been cleared. Familiarity with Sonia, ex bf, knew the area well where Sonia lived, knew the area well where Sonia's body was found, was the last one to speak with her, same age as profile, moved shortly afterwards etc.. 

The question was asked, if the bf had rightly been cleared, was someone with inside knowledge of him deliberately trying to set him up? Was the bf as much the target of someone's actions as Sonia? The details of the situation suggests something going on that would seemingly preclude any random act. IMO

The only way you can get any further along here is by going through and getting past the bf. imo.. Hence the #1 question as a starting point. Was the bf ever DNA tested?

Seems a no brainer the bf was tested but things happen and legality comes into play. Suspicion increases the longer it goes than no one confirms the testing. Suspicion increases after finding the press does not and has not ever mentioned where the bf lived in relation to where Sonia was found. It is no doubt deliberate not to report that and goes along with "he has been cleared". 

That is also where any meaningful investigation ends imo. Replaced by 700 plus random dna tests..

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 02, 2012, 06:33:43 PM
Quote
The only way you can get any further along here is by going through and getting past the bf. imo.. Hence the #1 question as a starting point. Was the bf ever DNA tested?

Seems a no brainer the bf was tested but things happen and legality comes into play. Suspicion increases the longer it goes than no one confirms the testing. Suspicion increases after finding the press does not and has not ever mentioned where the bf lived in relation to where Sonia was found. It is no doubt deliberate not to report that and goes along with "he has been cleared". 


This has been extensively discussed on Board Talks. Continuing to ask the same question here, does nothing to get an answer as to whether or not the bf has been DNA tested. As in any investigation, many things are not made public. A lot of times we are not aware of the quiet investigation that is going on out of public view, until an arrest is made.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2012, 09:54:38 PM
I watched the views on board talk during the discussion on Sonia compared the views here. Virtually no one reads back there. I posted there on board talk as instructed in hopes someone out in Sonia's vicinity would maybe read that and engage the press in a discussion. I could not solicite any meaningful reply from the newspaper either by email or phone. Thought someone might even ask and find out the legalities involved. Sonia's parents are getting on in years and are still too devastated to be expected to push things. They report the Police not telling them anything.

As Jb said awhile back,   
Quote
Quite frankly, in my opinion,  this murder is fading in people's memories.  Life goes on, and Orangeville citizens are getting on with their lives. That is what we all have to do in the end.
JB

That is the danger too imo. Silence on a rapidly cooling case is not usually in the best interest of the victim. I realize it is was not entirely proper to say all this here and I will leave it here. Apologies. It was apparently not all that proper for the employees at Greenshields to say what they did either and they lost their jobs over it. Just shows people have tried not to leave any stone unturned. I hope a local, a friend, or a relative will read here and do some more checking on all this some day.

best to you all
D1
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 03, 2012, 04:19:35 PM
The following is an appeal to the public given by Sonia Varaschin's Mother in December of 2010.

I imagine the same words might apply this December in 2012??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My daughter, Sonia, was a kind-hearted person who loved life,” she said.

“At the end of August, Sonia was brutally murdered in her own home by someone mostly likely from her community,” Michele said.

“A killer has taken something beautiful from our family, our friends and from your community, that can never be replaced,” she said.

“To those individuals who have opened their hearts and came forward with information, we are eternally grateful.

“To those who may have information but haven’t come forward ... we can only ask why.”

“My daughter deserved to live her life to the fullest. She did not deserve to die at the (hands) of someone who felt her life was worthless,” she said.

“There is nothing that can describe the pain we feel and nothing will ever fill the void that many of us are feeling at this moment,” Michele said.

“This Christmas, there will be an empty setting at our table where Sonia used to sit with her bright smile,” she said.

“So please, help.”

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on December 03, 2012, 10:15:27 PM
Forgive me for not knowing but by any chance did any of you ever consider Dr. C., Dr. K., and/or Dr. O. in Sonia's case?  These were doctors with a history of sexual assault, that practiced in a number of Ontario area hospitals, that lived in the area, worked in the area, and (in the case of one of the doctors) worked with children at summer camps even if his license was revoked on a previous offense.  Could Sonia have met them? Known them? Associated through pharmacy sales? Worked at kid's camp with them? What size boots do they wear?

Note the women's account (knew one of the doctors and met them at hotel lunge to discuss "career guidance" when slipped a substance into her drink)... the history of working in a number of hospitals... the fact that two doctor's are accused of gang raping another. They fact that one or more were in trouble two years before Sonia's assault. Like RW they were military trained and traveled from place to place. If they had similarities with RW, could the RW crimes affected the way any one of these guys did?  They lived in the area, practiced in the area, etc. Bold? Cocky? Worked in tandem?

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4727.60

Dr. K
Had practice in Scarborough
Only been working in Toronto since December 2010 when he started his own general practice at a medical clinic in Toronto's east end.
Holds a medical license in New Brunswick

Dr. C
Works part-time at the naval reserve division HMCS Star in Hamilton, Ont.
Holds rank of acting sub-lieutenant
Went to McMaster, post-graduate student in the plastic surgery dept.
Lived in Ancaster
Associated with the Canadian Forces since 1997
Enrolled in the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ont.
Graduated from Royal Military College in 2002
Became a pilot in January 2004
Ceased training in 2005
Performed pilot training at CFB Moose Jaw
Had a Saskatchewan driver's licence at time of arrest
Left Military in 2007, yet continued association as member of naval reserve

Dr O
Went to McMaster
Suspended license in 2008
Teaching at Redeemer University College
Taught at summer camps with kids.
Living in Mississauga with parents

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on December 03, 2012, 10:49:57 PM
Yes, I agree with the "doctor" angle, could be a doctor or some other type of medical "professional" who had not completed med school....ie. a physiotherapist, or a sales person for a pharmaceutical company who may have gone to med school but dropped out...as is common in that profession....someone who lives in the Orangeville area....maybe LE should be checking those medical professionals in the area...they would certainly be above suspicion in the community. 

Just my thoughts.....
Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on December 04, 2012, 01:10:26 AM
Concerned, for a while there, wellwell and I were really looking into doctors (the ones you mentioned)...we went on and on and then never got any further with it.  Wellwell seems to have disappeared.

I have also wondered if the Perp is who they would least expect.....like a professional....a doctor.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on December 04, 2012, 05:59:56 AM
These two doctors were traveling with eachother to clubs, other countries, other cities inside and outside where they worked, and many, many women account for their activities of "gang rape." They did this before Sonia went missing, and after, around the area. One was military and use to other locales, one was suspended at the time of her disappearance due to improper conduct. Makes me think the emphasis was not on the profession, but perhaps on the extracurricular activities that didn't stop after the suspencion, but instead increased. What if, for Sonia, she was on to the two? What if she fought, gallantly.

What if there were two... Perhaps the grizzly mess was a "party" gone wrong. The sloppy attempt to take her body elsewhere was a panic. Perhaps the car transported and dumped was where the guys left their car. By any chance was there a bar around where the car was dumped? Could they have met Sonia on the pretense of "career guidance" as one of their other victims claims happened to her? After all, Sonia left her wonderful job at the hospital, worked at kids camps (which the suspended doctor was still allowed to do), and she was into pharmaceuticals which we all know means you wine and dine and make opportunities to meet with doctors. Would be interesting to know if any other pharmaceutical reps fell pray to the whims of impressing doctors.

Did Sonia rebuff them earlier and they come to her house instead?  If you read that thread carefully, and keep Sonia's case in mind, it does make you wonder if she knew or bumped into these guys. She worked in their circles.

The thread about Dr. O, Dr C., and Dr. K.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4727.60
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2012, 08:10:19 PM
I recall much of the discussion about the doctors and various theories being batted about. If anything to it, these people by virtue obtaining their position have maybe more intelligence and assets to work with than the average perp. I would doubt the sexual only motive treating Sonia like any other due to the risk level involved but if Sonia knew or saw something involving persons like this, silencing her may have been an option for them. If so, things have to be looked at in a slightly different light imo. This includes some sort of planning involved, possible alibi's, and possibly setting someone else up to take the fall. Possible hired hit?

I believe it can be established that this was not likely a random crime and again it is the ex bf that pretty well demonstates that imo. It is highly unlikely that a random perp unaware that Sonia had a bf or unaware the location where he lived, could abduct kill and then place Sonia's body at a location many miles away and have it end up being virtually on the bf's door step.

I believe this indicates at least a knowledge of that connection and if not the bf, someone seems to be setting the stage to make it appear that way. Sonia's body  was left in a badly concealed temporary sort of fashion just waiting to be found and the sheets were scattered about the proximate area like flags virtually a drive around the block from the bf's residence.

We began this thread with one often asked but never answered question. "Why even remove Sonia's body from the townhouse"? It appeared she had been killed there, why not just leave her behind? Why risk loading and removing her, transporting a body, bringing her car back and forth? What motive could there be? What did that accomplish? What perception did that leave? On the first few pages here we had listed eleven possibilities to answer that question. Perhaps there are twelve. Perhaps we have not even been provided a real profile? 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 04, 2012, 09:22:43 PM
Good points. The murderer took a huge risk in driving about in Sonia's car. Chances are someone could have seen him and it's a shame there were no eye-witnesses. Shows a hardened and dangerous individual is responsible in my mind. If it were at all a crime of passion, the murderer might have more likely simply fled the house in a panic, leaving the body behind.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 04, 2012, 10:02:24 PM
Another possible reason for removing her from her townhouse, was because the killer did not want her family to find her like that.

Or - he lived very close to the townhouse and did not want his family to see her body being removed,. etc.

He did not go out of his way to conceal her. His priority was to get her away from the townhouse.
It was so important to him, that he took the risks.
Just a theory.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2012, 10:07:59 PM
The list began on post #4 jobo, still adding to it..
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6374.msg95242#msg95242 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6374.msg95242#msg95242)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 04, 2012, 10:21:46 PM
All good theories. 
Next question.  Why drive her car back to town?

1. He parked his car behind the TAC shop and walked over to her place.
therefore  he had to drive her car back to his vehicle.
Note: the stall next to hers was for a Health Unit. Was it Dufferin County Health Unit?  I can't recall. (Dr?)
or
2. He walked home.
Any other possibilities??

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on December 04, 2012, 11:02:36 PM
JB---I was reading here and another possibility could be ----the perp had someone else waiting there---dropped Sonia's car there-> put her in another vehicle with help (thus the doors and trunk open and left quickly) and then 2 people took her to the rural site where she was found. I still believe that there was one perp for the murder but maybe a 2nd person helped with transporting Sonia away from her car? It is difficult to figure this out with the little information released to the public. If there was even an identified item missing or more evidence regarding the perp would probably bring in more tips. IMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on December 05, 2012, 07:24:11 AM
Yesterday on the newsfeeds they were talking about the Murder Rate in Canada.....one fact they mentioned:  about 15% are murdered by strangers.....so 85% murdered by someone they know.

joojoo...I also wonder if there was a second person, waiting, like you say. (because of where and how Sonia's car was found).  I have even wondered if it was a man who killed Sonia, but a female accomplise.. someone making him do this...  Something I won't rule out. I really haven't said anything about that thought..but it niggles at me.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 05, 2012, 03:37:56 PM
Excellent thought Jobo.  Remember, the female inspector said SUSPECT OR SUSPECTS - and would not address location or locations. (residing).
She also said that the killer had regular attachments to Orangeville, either through work or family.
She also said that the suspect or suspects, were very familiar with the Caledon area.
Way earlier into the investigation, the public were asked to keep their ears close to the ground, as they might overhear a conversation.  Collusion??
Possibly a second person may also be involved.

My stupid tea cup reading - seldom done - usually correct - not into such things - not into occult, but by a casual glance at my cup - the bootprint was clear with a number 2.
No it did not say 2 boot prints, but by it's position (the number 2) it said 2 people.
This threw me, as you know I have always thought only one person was involved.

But after all, it was only a reading, and I brushed it off as such.

Then, when times past,   I heard the Inspector say SUSPECT OR SUSPECTS etc., it made me sit upright!
The letter H in the reading, could be hospital or Horsehill Road. 
See?  it was only explicit about 2 people being involved.  The letter H could stand for anything.
So much for that.
I keep an open mind about it.  I live in the world of practicality, not tea cup reading. lol
Just saying ------
Perhaps 2 people were involved, as the female Crime Inspector stated. Suspect or Suspect, location or locations.
It leaves the door wide open -------

JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2012, 01:22:47 AM
The two perp theory although possible also doubles the risk. To change vehicles right in town moving a body or badly bleeding person from one to another is risky. Its a public place. Then the blood soaked vehicle is left behind potentially alerting the Police while the other vehicle is still out there transporting a body while seeking a spot to dispose of the body. Risky. One of the first questions the Police would ask under those conditions if and when Sonia's car was found, is where is her husband or boyfriend? The odds, the statistics, the usual procedure. Now we see that Sonia's body was dropped off very very close to the bf's residence. Very risky. The police could conceivable be on the way out there if and when Sonia's blood soaked vehicle was found. Seems more likely she was taken out there in her own car then her car returned and the perp fled in the other. Why else come right back to that area if two people and two vehicles involved? You could meet and dispose of Sonia's vehicle anywhere if two people, two drivers, less risk. Not to rule it out but it suggests one person returning back to his own vehicle. IMO.

As I recall the very first theory posted here on why move her body was one put forward by Redbeard. That theory was that there was some degree of intoxication or impairment of judgement. A freaked out impulsive act. Thinking back on that I believe there was also a news report earlier that stated murder may not have been the original intent or motive.

So when Leonagleant wrote, 

Quote
If it were at all a crime of passion, the murderer might have more likely simply fled the house in a panic, leaving the body behind.

that got me thinking about another possible theory.The following has been suggested at times before but I guess I never thought how it could be put together before. (thanks Leona)

If murder was not the first intention but whatever happened caused extreme injury but not death, if the perp flees, how does he know Sonia would not survive to talk? She may have screamed, he could not be sure no one would be coming soon. If murder was not the original intent, this may not be a real hard to the core killer. Would you be able to knowingly and deliberately deliver a death blow after having just about killed someone accidentally knowing you would be blamed if the victim lived?  A possible starting point for Redbeards theory? What would someone do under those conditions? Add possible intoxication. Murder her there, run and chance it, or take her along? Taking her along may be strong indication Sonia knew her attacker.

Maybe he thought of taking her to a hospital or home to doctor her himself or whatever else an intoxicated person may think under the circumstance? Perhaps she died along the way and he just wanted a little more time together to apologize? Or just to buy time to think things out? "Intoxication" the original theory. Perhaps where Sonia was found fits in somehow with that too? If intoxicated and in a panic, what do you do and where do you run? Comfort zone? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 06, 2012, 07:53:03 AM
I also have a thought and a wonder on this.  I am thinking the killer did not go there with intent to kill her.  Perhaps the killer didnt get his own way on something , or get what he wanted. Who knows perhaps it was something as simple as usinging her car, things got out of hand and he killed her, not meaning to.  Then reality sets in , oh my god she is dead.  Then if if was some one very close , or close to the family etc, the next thought may be oh god I can't leave her here. I can let her mother find her like this.  Thus using her car to move her, then get out of there via another means of transportation be it on foot or bus etc.  JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 06, 2012, 11:40:45 AM
D1, I think that's a very possible scenario -- about the perp not intending to kill Sonia and/or not able to complete the act, and still not able to leave her. But at the same time, that suggests the kind of remorseful, not cold-blooded person that precisely is the type to leave signs of his guilt everywhere. I don't mean (only) in physical evidence but in post-crime, everyday behaviour. This was a heinous, brutal attack and Sonia was by all accounts a beautiful person both inside and out -- and so if the brutality was  the result of a momentary rage for which the perp has regret, then I think that would really eat at the person. Constantly. I hope it is .... But then I think we would have more leads........

I also have never bought into the "intoxicated" theory, myself. If you look at how the car was parked in the photos, it is perfectly aligned in the space. And despite what early LE was articulating or implying, OR despite how many of us may have read the profile,  this perp seems to have been much less sloppy than most think.  There doesn't seem to have been a lot of clues left. A bootprint. POSSIBLY some DNA......

 He has eluded justice  -- although I do believe this will cacth up with him, at some point.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 06, 2012, 01:46:08 PM
D1, I think that's a very possible scenario -- about the perp not intending to kill Sonia and/or not able to complete the act, and still not able to leave her. But at the same time, that suggests the kind of remorseful, not cold-blooded person that precisely is the type to leave signs of his guilt everywhere. I don't mean (only) in physical evidence but in post-crime, everyday behaviour. This was a heinous, brutal attack and Sonia was by all accounts a beautiful person both inside and out -- and so if the brutality was  the result of a momentary rage for which the perp has regret, then I think that would really eat at the person. Constantly. I hope it is .... But then I think we would have more leads........

I also have never bought into the "intoxicated" theory, myself. If you look at how the car was parked in the photos, it is perfectly aligned in the space. And despite what early LE was articulating or implying, OR despite how many of us may have read the profile,  this perp seems to have been much less sloppy than most think.  There doesn't seem to have been a lot of clues left. A bootprint. POSSIBLY some DNA......

 He has eluded justice  -- although I do believe this will cacth up with him, at some point.

I so agree with you Soccermom, in your full statement. JMO

JB
Ps - the fact that he was not seen - ie, he took her out the front door.  Knew that people would be sleeping, therefore, he was aware of her neighbours habits JMO, and the fact that he was not caught driving her to her final destination - tells me that he was very familiar with the route, and was very aware as to the cops and their timing of patrolling.

In addition, he went into the sliding patio door at the back of the house.  No neighbour would even notice.  If he entered the front door, surrounding townhouses might have noticed. No way, could one view the back.

He probably waited in her townhouse until all of the lights were out in the  ssurrounding townhouses, which told him that they were sleeping,(main street)  and then made the dash with her  to her car.

He also knew where to park the car, to avoid the cameras -  He knew the neighbourhood, the area where he left her, the cops patrolling schedule, and the cameras.

As I have pointed out earlier, when you look at how he parked that car, perfectly, no one who is inebriated, could have a> stayed on the road in the dark. b. parked a vehicle perfectly.   I am not buying into the killer being drunk, or on drugs.

To my mind, he was a cold sober killer, filled with hatred for her.  It was described by LE as being a brutal murder. 

She was dead when he carried her to her car. The forensics proved it. If you recall, after three days of investigation, they (forensics) came to that conclusion, and warned the family not to expect to find her alive.
But parents, being parents would still hope, that given a miracle she would be found and returned home safely.
That of course, was not to be.

He is silent, does not want to be noticed, perhaps is under the radar (ie has never connected with her on dating sites), but knew her, was familiar with her. Thus, no dna has been  taken from him.

Cops need more tips, that is for sure.

She was removed from her townhouse and driven in her car to her final destination.

If there was a second person involved, he would have been waiting outside, to help transport her to her car.
I cannot see, as DI said that she would be transferred to another vehicle. Too cumbersome.
In fact, the cops said that her car was used to transport her.  Forensics on the vehicle again, assured them that only her car was used, thus the announcement that her vehicle was used to transport her to her destination.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 06, 2012, 08:54:45 PM
The last two posts written here have been moved to the Board Talk thread. Any further specific discussion regarding the bf, will also be moved.

Thanks,
Debbie
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2012, 10:11:30 PM
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg97635#msg97635 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5481.msg97635#msg97635)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on December 07, 2012, 03:40:21 PM
Good points, jellybean....reminds me of Williams who had no problems jogging around his Ottawa neighbourhood, (and Tweed area), casing houses for his next B&E...and panty raid.  No one thought anything odd about it....no one suspected a thing.

Rafferty is another perp that comes to mind....he also drove around looking at homes where single women lived, and tried to figure out which was their bedroom.  A ticking time bomb who did murder an innocent child.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 08, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
No remorse whatsoever. Someone who cared or regretted the murder a tiny bit might have left Sonia her in her bed, not dumped her body in the middle of nowhere. That is the mark of a ruthless killer.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2012, 10:30:59 PM
Others say that this is an act of remorse or compassion to remove a body from the scene to spare the parents or whomever may most likely be the one to find it. If that applies here, it may also be an indicator dependent on who was most likely to come looking for Sonia and the perps relationship with.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 08, 2012, 10:44:26 PM
I'm sorry but I almost have to laugh at the idea of a brutal murderer's first concern being the feelings of Sonia's family members! We have all read enough about killers to know that their first and only concern is themselves.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2012, 10:52:04 PM
And not meaning to ignore your post brillig
Quote
What about the noisy, partying neighbours? Wouldn't they have been angry enough if she had complained about the noise? Someone had to have been pretty angry at that moment and, although some people don't think alcohol or drugs were involved, it is possible that the suspects judgement was impaired enough to kill her.

i would assume the partying neighbours were checked but how about someone at the party?

I was once very interested in that same residence and the occupants. Likely young males, likely working types, late night noise and partying goes along with drugs and alcohol.

For most at all normal people sobering up the next day removes any latent unjustifiable drug/alcohol induced emotion. Sonia was apparently killed at least days later after that complaint. If 700 tests have been performed, most of that party ring was identified and tested. If just a casual visitor partying, even less justification for a crime like this unless...
Something else happened that night that we do not know of, like.. the party was raided, drugs found or someone arrested, dui charges, etc.

But, that in itself would provide a record and that individual would likely have been sought out and tested. Also as said in the board room discussion, the perp was likely aware where Sonia's ex boyfriend lived. A casual visitor would be less likely and less privy to know that information. imo..

I moved along from the party people as a possibility as more information came to light and others seemed better matched the circumstance. but... I still wonder what all may have happened that night we may not be aware and if something we don't know could have played a role?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2012, 10:59:54 PM
leonna-
re:
Quote
I'm sorry but I almost have to laugh at the idea of a brutal murderer's first concern being the feelings of Sonia's family members! We have all read enough about killers to know that their first and only concern is themselves.

Actually those are not my words or thoughts but from an fbi profilers claims. Many on here in the past -Sonia part 1- had quoted that from an fbi manual. I believe it was one of the original 10 points left by jobo at the beginning of this discussion too and seemed widely accepted as a possibility. To each his own.. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 08, 2012, 11:13:50 PM
D1: I'm not aware of that FBI profiler's research, but it is a heart-warming thought to think of killers driving around with the dead bodies of their victims, willing to risk being caught for their crimes, and all out of consideration for their victim's families!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 08, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
Leona if your laught about the killer having concern about family members well I guess everyone is entitled to their own thoughts or ideas but it makes sense to me.  Say it was an actual relative of some sorts, or some one very close to the family, they might not have cared for Sonia's life but if were there aunt or godmother or mother or sisterinlaw or what have you and they cared for her, the mother I mean then yes they may very well have thought of that. But go ahead and have your laugh guess the truth is we have to wait until this is solved. Then we will know.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 08, 2012, 11:26:50 PM
Well eyeswideopen, what do you think Sonia's family would say to the idea that the killer took her body away out of concern for their feelings? As we all know too well on this site, which is dedicated heavily to missing people, having your loved one's body dumped in the wilderness and sometimes not to be found for years is hardly a comforting gesture to family members.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2012, 11:42:45 PM
 Leonna-
Quote
I'm not aware of that FBI profiler's research,

I believe this is one of the more commonly accepted findings of more than one researcher. How a body is left is a science in itself. I would have had no idea this was a possible until alerted to this same thing myself. In some ways it doesn't make sense but it apparently happens so often and those convicted of it explain why and it becomes accepted for what it is. Neither our thoughts can make or change what it means.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 08, 2012, 11:55:36 PM
D1: I have not heard of any evidence being released citing the manner in which Sonia's body was specifically left and I imagine that is confidential information to the investigation. I'm not aware of any FBI profiler weighing in on this topic with regards to Sonia's murder in particular.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 09, 2012, 12:37:19 AM
Keeping in context the discussion, the reference how Sonia's body was left was specifically in regard to and in response to her being removed from her home. As per earlier post- quote below-
Leona-
Quote
Someone who cared or regretted the murder a tiny bit might have left Sonia her in her bed, not dumped her body in the middle of nowhere.

re:
Quote
I'm not aware of any FBI profiler weighing in on this topic with regards to Sonia's murder in particular.

You may be surprised to learn what involvement the fbi has here then.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/12/15/varaschin-homicide.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/12/15/varaschin-homicide.html)

The entire profile we have been given bits and pieces of specifically in regard to Sonia's murderer was derived in conjunction with the fbi profilers.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 09, 2012, 09:55:42 AM
Of course having a loved one dumped on the road side is not a comforting though. But walking in and finding your daughter , covered in blood, and dead, murdered would be a much harder image to get out of you mind I would thing, as opposed to being notified she was found and where. JMO.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on December 09, 2012, 01:34:38 PM
I agree eyes, the person/s that would have found her, if left in her home, certainly would have been affected. I definately think this was done by perp/s that she knew. These perps did not want Sonia's family/friends to find her like that. It certainly would have been easier for them to leave her there. I think they took a big risk taking her out in her car. They could have left her vehicle anywhere, but they came back; odd.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 09, 2012, 06:22:12 PM
Art hu I am wondering if they perhaps had a vehicle parked in Orangeville , and had to get back to it. Or they lived there or they didnt want to be too far with the car and get caught driving it so same trail back perhaps.  I truly believe when the get the killer everyone will be totally shocked who it is. JMO. Unless of course it has been solved and Leona knows who the killer is , and the rest of the public have not been informed yet?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 09, 2012, 10:37:10 PM
Thank you for that link D1 but it does not tell me anything I did not already know about the case. If the FBI did release a criminal profile for the suspect that included the notion that he cared about Sonia's family and therefore presumably knew her family, that would be noteworthy news but somehow I doubt they have done so.

I think someone even went so far above to speculate that Sonia could have been killed by a family member. I do not believe that to be the case, but if it were it wouldn't take the police long to find out which family member wore size 10-11 Mark Work WearHouse boots!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on December 09, 2012, 10:42:42 PM
Just my thoughts---I am not so sure that a perp would be so concerned about who finds the body unless he has a relationship with the family of the victim. I think in most cases the perp is trying to hide evidence to buy himself some time/or is in a panic and doing things on the fly. I am not a professional in this field but do wonder about what perps say as to why they move the body. They may be trying to appeal to the compassionate side of LE to soften their crime sentence, showing they are remorseful when in fact they are trying to manipulation LE into thinking they are sorry and were helping to soften the situation for the family. I would guess psychopaths are good at trying to achieve this. Just read "Without Conscience" by Robert D. Hare
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2012, 02:33:56 AM
Joojoo, thoughts are complex in regard this issue. imo 2. Things can be looked at in various ways and there may be more than one reason a perp would remove a body. A combination of things in an equation not just one singular factor . Either or both sides may be true or partly true. Sociopaths are cons and mimic the acts of remorse etc.. IQ and motives play a role etc etc.. I'll look up that book thnz.

Leonna you may be right in the end we just don't know.  Just saying the flip side has been discussed and supported by some pretty big players in the profession of knowing these things.. Their opinions differ from yours.

from Leonna-

Quote
No remorse whatsoever. Someone who cared or regretted the murder a tiny bit might have left Sonia her in her bed, not dumped her body in the middle of nowhere. That is the mark of a ruthless killer.

I believe the profile and information released supports the flip side of your quotes more so than not but as has been said, we are not to go into those particulars in this discussion. You are entitled your beliefs but I will have to excuse myself here. 

from Leonna-
Quote
If the FBI did release a criminal profile for the suspect that included the notion that he cared about Sonia's family and therefore presumably knew her family, that would be noteworthy news but somehow I doubt they have done so.


The profile suggested he was familiar with Sonia and her surroundings, that may include family, it may not. It is speculation either way. One may view the location Sonia was found as part of the same equation. It is non definitive either way at best. imo..

ps, joojoo excellent little summary and interesting discussion on how to spot a psychopath by the same author you named above.
http://aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org/index.php/2011/02/24/this-charming-psychopath-how-to-spot-social-predators-before-they-attack/ (http://aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org/index.php/2011/02/24/this-charming-psychopath-how-to-spot-social-predators-before-they-attack/)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on December 10, 2012, 06:10:09 PM
My personal opinion is that Sonia's killer moved her from the house because he knew someone would have come looking for her after 24 hours of no contact (i.e. her family members) and would have found her with DNA evidence fairly intact. Moving Sonia to a secluded location would lessen the chances of her being found within the same 24-48 hour timeframe. I am sure the killer knew it would take much longer to find her where she was found as opposed to leaving her in her home.  Also leaving her in an open area where she was subject to environmental forces, sun, rain, wind and exposure to all types of things , therefore (in the killers' mind) lessening or negating DNA evidence. So I believe it may be that the killer was someone known to Sonia's family who had a personal grudge against Sonia but that the killer also thought it would take a lot longer to find her in the wilds of Caledon than in her home.
Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 10, 2012, 09:08:19 PM
What you say makes more sense to me Deb R than any other explanation.

According to this link, the killer may have panicked but that doesn't mean he felt guilty, just panicked at the thought of getting caught:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1240407--sonia-varaschin-murder-probe-police-break-silence
 
I would also like to point out that women who live alone as mature adults may know or even date many men who they don't necessarily introduce to their families. Unless this is a small town scenario where everyone knows everyone, I would suggest that it's more likely the killer did NOT know Sonia's family. I say this partly because her boyfriend has been cleared and left the country. Sonia may have only introduced her serious boyfriends to her family if she's like the people I know. The person who killed her may have been someone she dated, or rejected as a date or someone she knew slightly who stalked her. (One of the reasons the police speculate she knew her killer was that there was no sign of forced entry to the house.)

Finally, let's remember Sonia was killed in the summer when temperatures would have been high. The killer was in workboots, an odd thing to wear in the summer unless they were needed for his work.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on December 10, 2012, 11:28:10 PM
I agree Deb R and Leona.....Could there be another reason---I was wondering if Sonia went hiking with someone in the afternoon since we don't know her whereabouts---maybe an acquaintance that she didn't tell her family about. This could be a reason for the work boots if he wasn't a regular hiker but needed something to protect his feet. Ideas???  Unless we know where she was leading up to the crime there are many scenarios.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 11, 2012, 09:07:54 PM
D1 - I'm sorry but I can't follow your line of questioning. It might help if I actually saw anything in writing from FBI profilers saying the killer knew her family, but I have not yet. The OPP are quoted in the media as saying the man who killed Sonia is a “cold blooded killer,” very familiar with the Orangeville area but may have moved in order to avoid detection. I described the killer myself as "ruthless" in the quote above you keep re-posting so the OPP and I are in agreement with one another. They have also described him as "panicky" and "reckless" and that's possible but I contend the panic had something to do with getting caught. The fact that the killer has not turned himself in proves that he does not have much of a conscience doesn't it?

Here is the profile of sorts that has been published:

 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1240407--sonia-varaschin-murder-probe-police-break-silence

The opinions I asserted countering people's speculations on the killer had nothing to do with the boyfriend. I wasn't even thinking of him at the time and do not know anything about him to tell you the truth, other than Sonia dated him on and off over somethng like a year, police have announced he was cleared and he subsequently left the country. I was not part of the discussion about him that you all had leading to that topic being banned so am not in the loop.

Days after her body was found, police said the killer left footprints from a pair of size 10 or 11 Dakota or Wind River work boots, sold only at Mark's Work Wearhouse, so that would be work boots rather than hiking boots but I suppose it's quite possible someone would go hiking in work boots.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/09/09/fear-grips-orangeville-after-murder/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 12, 2012, 03:56:21 PM
Hey, some good stuff in all that Fridgibear. Couple of answers to...

Quote
If killer was covered in blood, has it been determined if there were blood splatters on the pavement in the vicinity of Sonia’s car?

Why was the trunk open, doors left open? Did he have something to get out of the trunk, like a quick change of clothing or something to clean himself off with?

There are pictures showing blood splatter all around the driveway and steps at Sonia's home. Not as far as we know where the car was found.

It was speculated about in thread 1 and some information surfaced that the Police had left the trunk and doors open.

But still a good question and may even go along with why the sheets from Sonia's home were not found with her body. We have not been given much information on sexual assault evidence or motive.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 12, 2012, 05:00:23 PM
As for the type of person who would do this, the below is only my opinion based on some of the things I've read here. Only speculation.

I’m picturing a loner type of guy who is very narcissistic, bitter and self-important.  Someone who lives a double life—strategic, and a leader at work yet in his personal life stays to himself and thinks the world owes him something, feeling invincible, and engaging in risky thrill seeking behavior in his day to day life.  A guy that wants to have control and who usually commands control but when he doesn’t get his way, he panics and lashes out at the person he feels made him lose the control. I think by now the guy has become even more of a loner, withdrawing from his life as a way of dealing with what he has done.

I agree wtih your summation of the type of killer, although I do not think he is a loner per se, but he does feel that few people understand him. 

I also picture  him as being very charming on the outside, when he wants something, but is bitter on the inside and feels that the world owes him a living.

 I also picture him walking the floor at nite, at times)  drinking more than he usually would. Spending hours on the computer reading up on news media and social sites about Sonia.

He may also be showing signs of short tempered, and if married, lashing out at wife and other family members. 

His excuse may be that he is having difficulties at work, overworked etc.
Speaking of work, he would  be a perfectionist, and his home, and yard would be meticulous (lawn well groomed etc).

Avoids any conversation about Sonia.  Will make an excuse to leave the room should the topic arise. (Avoidance).

He may also have called in a few tips about the killer, to the police, to throw them off the path.

He may have attended her funeral, or more likely watched outside as a bystander.

He is also bright intellectually, although he thinks he is brilliant. He must always be right about everything. Privately considered to be a boor by others.

Not too well liked by neighbours or co-workers either. While his relationships are border line, he is not under suspicion by neighbours, etc. as  he may be a "pulpit type", always complaining about hooligans, speeders, crime in area, high taxes etc.

May even have a few friends on the police force. Possibly known as  a "name dropper". (would not surprise me).

I don't think he has ever had a DUI, nor has he ever been under the eyes of the law.
The above is just my opinion.


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 12, 2012, 09:23:06 PM
Leonagleant:  I am not a moderator, but have read the both of you, and am scratching my head as to how both your thoughts and D1's have gone off track.

I have had every since day one, changed my mind multiple times about the killer of Sonia. And it is okay to do so.
Especially as this site matures. More theories abound, and as a result, I have changed my mind many times - and that to me, is quite okay - and if that is what you have done - that is fine by me.

DI, has also added and changed many of his thoughts as this site progresses, He has contrbuted much and have changed my thoughts as well. It is like a brook of thoughts that continues on.

I enjoy reading your insights and others,  including DI's as well.  I always go away with Food for Thought.  At times, I get stuck on a theme, and I am the first to admit it. By reading other posters, my thoughts become unstuck, and am able to continue on a different line of thinking.  Personally speaking ,  it is like a mind type of  log jam.  Remove one log, and the water (thoughts, and fresh ideas  from others) can flow more freely.--

Thank you  all for that. :)

PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 12, 2012, 09:34:46 PM
There's a man in O-ville, Rob Bredin, who is offering a $3000 reward for information leading to arrest in Sonia's case, and inviting others to contribute to augment the reward to $50k. Myself, I don't think it has been a lack of financial incentive that we don't have justice yet for Sonia, but i commend his efforts to stir up information:

http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2012-1...o_Matters.html:

"I choose at this juncture to make the enhanced offer at my birthday, an offer I commenced two years ago – and this all I have to offer – of a $3,000 reward toward solving the stillunsolved murder of Sonia Varaschin.

This murder occurred in Orangeville, but one feels it could have occurred anywhere due to the “friendships” we may choose to contract electronically.

I know of no specifics in this case; but, what I do know is that no reward has been offered for information that will lead to an arrest and conviction. This cannot either be acceptable to or be accepted any longer by any man in this town.

Yes, any number of us spend too much time playing with our remote controls and joysticks, or pining for the NHL (there is no substitute), or planning our next expedition to Canadian Tire to puzzle over artificial Christmas trees.

But there are good, big-hearted men of conviction here in Orangeville – “Little Bobs”, Jims, Jeffs, Joes, “Big Freds”, and so on – solid, conservative, decent yeomen, and citizens. I am calling on them now – we oughtn’t wait any longer for the ineptly and vindictively chiefed Orangeville Police Service (and I know the investigation is being led by the OPP) – to join me in making up a reward of $50,000 for information leading to an arrest and conviction in this murder, the ultimate in violence against a woman.

This sort of reward-making, if that’s what it’s called, is how it was when I was a boy in the ’70s, although this kind of leadership and demonstration of resolve in the face of crime used to come naturally from our public officials; but now it has to, apparently, come from us private citizens.

This is how it has needs to be now, for all our sisters (larger sense) in town: for me, for our inaction, for our sitting on our hands and our mute passivity, it makes me feel like I am living in another, but far lesser, country, not Canada, not Ontario certainly.

My money will be available through the best, my solicitor, counsellor, and friend in town (and I can hear him clearing his throat in Florida), and his associates at, Robert G. Church, Q.C.

You, dear prospective donor, may contact me through the good offices of The Citizen in Orangeville, once more behind its refined brickwork.

Let’s get this done, let’s get it done now once-and-for-all, let’s get the perpetrator – not an “offender”, not someone who should be understood, but a plain criminal, a bullying thug, and a brutal murderer – off the streets that our sisters (daughters, mothers, girlfriends, aunties, companions, wives...) may no longer have his shadow here hanging heavily over them, or over our peaceful, pleasant streets in Orangeville, as this remains – and must remain – truly one of the safest, most trusting, and most law-abiding communities to be found anywhere in Ontario."
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 12, 2012, 09:51:56 PM
Well if you read the post I left, follow the links, there is a common theme to your posts Leona. The only close to family person spoken of here, is not allowed to be discussed. You can post all the opposites of why not that person, I cannot post in opposition that. Like being handcuffed. I believe you can count the instances.. I believe you know the difference.

Having said that, it is up to admin to determine if that "tactic" is permissable, you are absolutely correct in that regard. It was a last request to willingly move the goading posts elsewhere where I could respond. I gave your position the benefit of the doubt several posts back. Nothing changed. You continue, I can't respond.

My thoughts on all of these unsolved crime is that it all has to fit together. All the pieces need to mesh. Like braiding a rope, all the strands intertwine and make a stronger and stronger case. More should fit as you go not less. The out of place pieces need be re-examined not the entire foundation undone to match a wayward piece. It sidetracks and does not further progress, in fact ensures there will be little progress. imo

But this is a discussion and all is welcome, all but one topic that is.. Apologies, frustration more with procedure than anything else..
Will leave you to it

 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: cryforjustice on December 13, 2012, 10:16:28 AM
I think you are on to something Fridgiebear..  I am new to the forum, just started following a since the anniversary of her death.
I believe the killer took her body and bedding to clean it and himself up before returning the car to get his own. 
I don't believe the body was immediately layed to rest in caledon. A jogger was quoted as saying " I can believe I jogged by her twice without noticing the body. "
I also don't buy into the boot thing.   The killer was trying to set up someone else.   Indicated by the bedding being discarded near where someone lived < snipped >   
The killer would have had time to remove DNA from the bed sheets and the body.
I agree with you that the killer lives in the orangeville area and has connections to the police in Caledon.  IMO, perhaps a neighbour in the RCMP.
His lawn is well kept.. very important to keep up appearences.   He doesn't socialize, or go have a group of friends.. just one. His best buddy who helps him clean up and dispose of the evidence.

I would bet that there is a 4th and perhaps a 5th crime scene.
I believe that it has something to do with the newmarket Hospital,  someone forged the change to the medication not Sonia.  Sonia wouldn't change someones meds without following proper proceedure..  This I am sure of.   Sonia new who was responsible.   This IMO will lead us to the killer. 


I'm kind of new to this forum and have spent the last few days going through some of the discussions and possible suspects/theories on her murder. I haven't read Part I of this original discussion obviously as it was 142 pages  :o

A few things keep sticking out in my mind...some brainstorming here so excuse me if some of the points may have already been touched on/theorized. The below is purely my opinion.

-   Killed by a man who she rejected, possibly living within very close proximity of her

-   Killed by this same rejected man who was in her house previously, for whatever reason.

                Killed by someone who was obsessed with her--he got into her home,got her in her bed, drove her car with her dead body in it and then spent more time in her car by himself.

-   Somehow knew where her bedroom was, where to enter, how to get from home to garage.

-   A man who may work for a company that requires proper footwear to perform the job safely (some companies use MWW for clothing/footwear especially hazardous professions)

-   No drugs or alcohol present. IMHO he would have needed sobriety on his side

-   No sexual assault as per LE. However, I don’t think we can dismiss the possibility that one of the motives, if not the main motive, for the killer would be sexual assault. Has LE ever mentioned sexual assault to the body after death?

-   Body taken to another location possibly to also spend time with Sonia in his own sick, twisted way without having a knock come to the door

Killer flipped out when she screamed and possibly put up a physical fight to make up for her petite frame…more than what he bargained for.  He couldn’t sexually assault her as she was fighting back too much, not cooperating like he wanted. He flipped out more because he couldn’t take rejection again. He used whatever weapon(s) he brought with him to kill her in a rage and panic. He engages in more risky behavior for the rest of the night.

Risky behavior brought on by the fact she couldn’t identify him, and she was now with him in her car, even if she was dead. He felt empowered.

Killer is very cocky in a residential neighbourhood.

When killer drove the car back to Sonia’s neighbourhood he would have been risking a lot—a neighbour waking up and looking out the window, someone getting home late at night, someone going to work early, someone walking their dog. Risking police presence on Sonia’s street at the possibility the neighbours could have called the police when they heard commotion coming from Sonia’s place.

Driving car back to the neighbourhood could mean 1) killer didn’t live far away and could wak on foot in the dark. Sonia’s neighbourhood was possibly also his neighbourhood and he had to get “home” or 2) had his own getaway car parked close by.

If killer was covered in blood, has it been determined if there were blood splatters on the pavement in the vicinity of Sonia’s car?

Why was the trunk open, doors left open? Did he have something to get out of the trunk, like a quick change of clothing or something to clean himself off with?

As for the type of person who would do this, the below is only my opinion based on some of the things I've read here. Only speculation.

I’m picturing a loner type of guy who is very narcissistic, bitter and self-important.  Someone who lives a double life—strategic, and a leader at work yet in his personal life stays to himself and thinks the world owes him something, feeling invincible, and engaging in risky thrill seeking behavior in his day to day life.  A guy that wants to have control and who usually commands control but when he doesn’t get his way, he panics and lashes out at the person he feels made him lose the control. I think by now the guy has become even more of a loner, withdrawing from his life as a way of dealing with what he has done.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 13, 2012, 11:39:38 AM
Below is a post I wrote a while back. Nothing has changed. At the time there were two posts which I moved to the Board Talk thread. The conversation carried on there for a few days as it has done in the past, and then moved back here. Slowly the same topic has resumed on this thread.

Quote
The last two posts written here have been moved to the Board Talk thread. Any further specific discussion regarding the bf, will also be moved.

Thanks,
Debbie

Plain and simple. According to police the bf has been cleared. We are unaware of the procedure by which they cleared him. That's what we have been given. I have not said that there can not be any discussion on this point, rather that it will take place on the Board Talk thread, for those wishing to discuss the topic. 

Also, if anyone has a problem with a particular post please click the report to mod button. That is the fastest and most effective way to deal with things, without disrupting the thread.

Thanks,
Debbie

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 22, 2012, 01:42:00 AM
on a positive note: I think there has been info poster here before about the scholarship established in Sonia's name; here's a bit of the speech made by one of her dear friends; you can read the whole tribute, I believe, at this site:

http://www.rnfoo.org/awards-a-scholarships/award-background/named-awards.html

SONIA VARASCHIN
 
" In 2012 a plan was put in place to raise funds for a new RNFOO scholarship in memory of nurse Sonia Varaschin.  Marija Bojic, a friend of Sonia Varaschin, introduced this new award at the 2012 RNFOO Gala. The following is an excerpt from Marija's speech that night:
 
Honoree Background: Sonia was a nurse who was passionate about the need for sensitive and supportive care and nursing services to children with lifetime chronic conditions and who are being cared for in their homes....

 Read more: Sonia Varaschin"

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 22, 2012, 07:38:16 PM
Just to remind us -
http://www.ctvnews.ca/nurse-s-killer-familiar-with-area-police-say-1.586437

"The location where Sonia's body was found is an area where the offender may be comfortable with and is likely known to him whether as a result of recreation, occupation or illegal activities," Pritchard told reporters at an Orangeville news conference on Thursday morning.

In the days following Varaschin's murder, police believe that her killer may have exhibited key behaviours that his friends, family, associates or co-workers would have noticed.

"These behaviours may include things like unexplained absences from his work and his usual activities, whether work, school or missed appointments," Pritchard said.

"There may have been an increase in his alcohol or drug use and he may have been seen as being irritable, agitated and anxious. This person may also have moved from the area shortly after the occurrence or limited his social interactions to avoid detection."

Police came to these conclusions during a three-day conference on the case, where OPP investigators worked with homicide detectives from Ottawa, Toronto and York Region, as well as criminal profilers from the RCMP and FBI.

Investigators chose to consult these sources, in part because "in Canada this type of crime is very unusual, it rarely happens," Pritchard said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It rarely happens in Canada?  What was so rare? - about this murder?

JB
They (LE) later found out that she was on dating sites - did this make her more vulnerable?
What was so rare about the crime scenes, that very early on drove the OPP and Orangeville Police to obtain the input from the FBI, RCMP etc.?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 22, 2012, 08:02:47 PM
Very good question. They once termed this a three scene investigation. Very rare. Figure out why and you may find answers to who.. ?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 22, 2012, 08:54:36 PM
I am going off topic here, but I want to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a safe and wonderful holiday to all of my poster friends, debbiec, our admin who keeps things on topic, and keeps this site going, special regards to Chris who started this site, as well as the  guests who read this site.! Guests, you are very important to us.

I hope all of you stay safe on our Canadian wintery roads, and enjoy this marvelous season.

Best of the Season to each and everyone of you.

Jellybean. (JB) :)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on December 23, 2012, 01:45:10 AM
Very good question. They once termed this a three scene investigation. Very rare. Figure out why and you may find answers to who.. ?

The three scenes are Sonia's house, the place she was discarded, and where the killer left her car.


Season's Greetings to all.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 23, 2012, 02:36:16 AM
Why the killer would do such a thing, so very risky, continues to baffle most of us. I am encouraged to read that there will be a scholarship awarded in Sonia's name. She will not be forgotten and there will always be the chance someone will pick up where it all left off should the cold even try to set in.
thanz for posting that Soccermom

And appropiate or not I'll still use the old fashioned merry xmas to wish you all well in the new year.  :)

Quote
SONIA VARASCHIN
Origin: In 2012 a plan was put in place to raise funds for a new RNFOO scholarship in memory of nurse Sonia Varaschin.  Marija Bojic, a friend of Sonia Varaschin, introduced this new award at the 2012 RNFOO Gala. The following is an excerpt from Marija's speech that night:

Honoree Background: Sonia was a nurse who was passionate about the need for sensitive and supportive care and nursing services to children with lifetime chronic conditions and who are being cared for in their homes.

She had incredible empathy for the parents who bravely and lovingly cope with the burden of the day-to-day complex needs of their children.

 Sonia’s life was tragically taken in 2010 and her homicide has yet to be solved.  She was a strong and caring nurse whose life will not be forgotten thanks to the nursing community who came together to raise funds to help other nurses through this scholarship in Sonia’s honour.  In memory of my dear friend, I brought together and motivated nurses to attend an amazingly energetic event in the form of a ‘Zumba Fitness Party’.   Nurses and many more people from community exercised through dancing to the rhythms of Latin music for hours while raising money to keep Sonia’s memory alive.  Thanks to the hundreds of nurse contributors, the resulting funds were sufficient to build a base for Sonia’s scholarship.

Award Description: The Sonia Varaschin Memorial Scholarship will be awarded annually to an undergraduate nursing student in 3rd or 4th year who has demonstrated leadership and a passion for making a difference toward healthy work environments.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 23, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
same to you  -- happy holidays, JB, D1 and all. Let's hope 2013 rings in some justice for Sonia, Audrey, Kera, and so many others!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 23, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
I hope police are somehow maintaining a list of all the men who would fit the profile of the killer who have since moved out of Orangeville. It's a small enough community that if people cooperated, all landlords could submit the names of men who either live there now or did at the time of the murder. Police could simply draw up a flyer  and circulate to all households. If the killer owns his own home or lives/lived with family, it's more complicated. Also, how many men shop at Mark's Work WearHouse for work boots? That should narrow down the search considerably to someone in a trades position.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Matty_46 on December 26, 2012, 08:13:45 PM
I wouldnt quite narrow things down too far as to just tradesmen, lots of people, myself included wear stuff from Marks and have nothing to do with a trade. Upon looking at my own steel toes, they are Dakota's (size eight, no one get too excited). But ya, for casual wear stuff I have quite a few things from there and Im musician thats been in customer service for the last decade, havent needed work boots since my weekend job in college.

The more and more I read this particular thread, as well as watching several true crime shows where there are clear clues and motives, and it seems to me that this is such an oddball situation that le would be damn lucky to piece it all together. I mean this perp has le and every single one of us absolutely turned around in circles, so much so that people in here are getting irritated with each other, and I imagine le has seen the same among officers and detectives on the case. But what Im saying is that this guy could be a white collar guy that had these boots for lawn work. Perhaps every aspect of the case is coincidental, right up to motive. A lot of stock has been put into love gone wrong, work enemies, stalkers and so on. But maybe no one is even close on that, maybe its such an obscure chain of events that lead to her death and disposal that its the kind of thing no one could have ever guessed. Im just throwing this out there, and in no way am i cutting down anyones ideas or trying to step on toes, just stating my own opinions, and I just get the feeling that everything about this is abnormal, and thats why LE are still drawing blanks on everything. If you were to throw in a completely unusual suspect, that is not really known to Sonia, that itself sets back the investigation so much because of LE eliminating the usual suspects. It only gives the real killer time to think, time to plan and time to destroy any evidence. I really think theyre looking for a needle in a haystack here. I hate to say it, and hope that im completely wrong, but i think this one will go unsolved, unless there is someone out there that knows something. But it is possible that the perp got so lucky, that he did go undetected.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 26, 2012, 08:44:26 PM
I don't rule out that possibility at all. I sometimes think of a case in the east coast of the States where an independent middle aged single mother who had several love interests was found murdered at her home. The married man who fathered her child came under suspicion but eventually it turned out to be her garbage man who was crazed on drugs.

The police have told us this was not random though, and if they are right then it should narrow down the search considerably especially when you consider how many of the men who knew Sonia would have that size foot and wear that type of boot.

The population of Orangeville is approximately 30,000. If you rule out women, the elderly, disabled and children, I'm just going to say that we are looking at something like a pool of 7,000 or fewer possible men that the police need to sift through.

Speaking of work boots, 30% of the population  in Orangeville works in the trades, manufacturinng and primary industry (http://www.city-data.com/canada/Orangeville-Town.html), so that would be about 2000 men I'd want to check out.

It's sort of like the dark and twisted side of a Cinderella story, if you can imagine someone taking a size 10 Dakota boot around to see if the shoe fits...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 26, 2012, 09:09:53 PM
Of course that is assuming the killer lived in Orangville , But I suppose it not possitve if it was infact a resident of Orangville or from any other jurisdiction.  Hope this year comming brings answers for the family and friends
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 26, 2012, 09:13:21 PM
The police claim the killer was very familiar with Orangeville, so if he did not live there then he could have lived nearby.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on December 27, 2012, 01:06:23 PM
Matty-46 ---good ideas.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Matty_46 on December 27, 2012, 04:29:21 PM
FB thats an interesting idea about someone waiting for him and giving him a ride after he dropped off her car. Its possible that the perp called someone else, a best friend, close relative etc. and said something to the extent of I got a huge problem, meet me here asap or whatever. The call could have taken place any time after her murder, and the person called probably didnt know anything more than that their friend/relative needed help. I never got the impression that this was a two perp crime, but I had never put any thought into someone being an accessory in that nature, without any harmful intents but simply wanting to help someone they cared about. It could be that two people now have intimate knowledge of the crime, but their bond could keep them both quiet forever.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 28, 2012, 02:12:32 PM
Anything is possible but involving other people would certainly increase the odds of being caught.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Matty_46 on December 28, 2012, 03:09:14 PM
It would certainly increase the odds of being caught, I agree. But there are people who can be bought and sold, even when it comes to covering up something so brutal.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 28, 2012, 03:21:48 PM
just a thought, I am very familiar with Orangville but have never lived there and the closed I ever lived to it was in Mississaug so as for some one being familiar with Orangeville I would say that doesnt really mean a lot . JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 28, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
FB thats an interesting idea about someone waiting for him and giving him a ride after he dropped off her car. Its possible that the perp called someone else, a best friend, close relative etc. and said something to the extent of I got a huge problem, meet me here asap or whatever. The call could have taken place any time after her murder, and the person called probably didnt know anything more than that their friend/relative needed help. I never got the impression that this was a two perp crime, but I had never put any thought into someone being an accessory in that nature, without any harmful intents but simply wanting to help someone they cared about. It could be that two people now have intimate knowledge of the crime, but their bond could keep them both quiet forever.

I had suggested that theory also, along way back on her thread.  Perhaps this thought also has merit, since you and a few others have suggested that as well.  I am a believer in "group intelligence", in most things.

It is quite possible that another person was involved in an innocent way. Blood is thicker than water, I am guessing.

If you will recall, early on in the invetstigation the police asked the public "to also keep their ears close to the ground, as they may overhear a conversation."

Well, a conversation involves two or more people would it not?

This request to the public, always made me wonder.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Matty_46 on December 28, 2012, 09:51:35 PM
Quite possible JB, again Im stuck with the thought that this is so random that it would take a random overheard conversation to get lucky. But lets assume that there are two people who are conversing about it, I wouldnt think they would be ballsy enough to converse about it in public with a chance of being over heard. Someone (probably several people) had mentioned that police have probably already interviewed the perp. Probably cleared him based on heck knows what, and may have been looking so hard in one direction, they neglected a strong suspect because of it.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on December 28, 2012, 10:43:40 PM
This link may be of interest as it is by someone who had chatted on-line with Sonia and had his DNA tested. Judging from his writing, it's not hard to see why Sonia may have never opted to meet him in person:

http://www.suspect4soniavaraschin.com/blog/

Also, this article gives insight into Sonia personality and personal life. Interesting that her cat went missing for two weeks after her murder. If only pets could talk!

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/871937--varaschin-family-grapples-with-daughter-s-murder
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 28, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
This blog was brought up in the past and the link is posted somewhere in all these pages.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on January 01, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
Interesting fact that Sonia's cat went missing for two weeks after her murder....perhaps Sonia's cat might have been taken with her body to the "dump" site? Maybe the perp was going to do something twisted to the cat as well but the cat escaped? It's a bizarre concept but it could explain why the cat could not be found for two weeks....the poor thing was trying to make her way back to Sonia's house. 

I think it would be very interesting to have an animal Reiki/Energy practitioner "read" Sonia's cat.  Before some of you get all "up in arms" because I'm suggesting something in the "psychic realm" it may be worth a try.  Animals who are closely connected to their owners have a lot to tell and a skilled person can read them and get some answers. I myself, personally, had an animal Reiki/Energy reader do a reading on my elderly horse, I was astounded what she found out and it was right on the money.  Just my thoughts.....

Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on January 01, 2013, 09:04:51 PM
I don't mean to infringe on Sonia's page or the Loder family's privacy, but I thought some folks here might be interested in the following update from Shelley Loder's facebook page, especially since some of us have worried about possible connections between the attack on her and Sonia's murder. The update is from October 2012, so I apologize if the info has been posted already. It seems REALLY promising/hopeful to have some positive word from her. I hope she will continue to improve and be well; wouldn't it be an extra blessing if she could remember enough to provide new info to LE to catch the person responsible for her attack!

From
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Creative-Photography-by-Shelley-Lorraine/148910655125062#!/shelley.loder.5

"Shelley Loder:
 Hello All, happy to say that I'm still here and starting to fell better!!!!! However both my husband and I decided to move back into Orangeville and have retired from photography. However, you can facebook me at Shelley Loder.

Like · · October 24, 2012 at 1:17pm near Orangeville, Ontario"

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 02, 2013, 01:32:23 PM
I do not believe that the killer took risky behaviour.  Even though the original detective said so.
I believe that the killer was familiar with the habits of those who lived in the townhouses, and the police check points, and cruising behaviours of the cops on a Sunday nite.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on January 05, 2013, 02:03:14 PM
Jellybean, I am a firm believer that the person who killed Sonia, is still not far away. And I do believe that when this person is arrested, the total community will be shocked when they find out who committed this murder. I believe the person is right in that area and still is living there, they could be someone's husband, a friend of a friend that knew Sonia, definitely someone familiar with the area. I keep saying the same thing and I'm sticking to it. This was not a stranger who committed this crime, not a by chance happening that she was murdered. Someone focused on Sonia and they got away with the murder. I do believe they had some kind of courage inside of them, drugs or alcohol, but that she was the target. The police have to question everyone who lived around her again. Find out if anyone moved or didn't show up for work the next day or a person that has doubts about someone that they think may have committed this crime, call Crime Stoppers, you don't have to give your name, just do it. Someone is out there that knows who did this, come clean and be able to sleep at night, call the police and give your information. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 05, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Excellent point - who didn't turn up to work the next day? A bit late to be asking that question now. But in light of the boot print, I would hope the police called all construction sites the week of the murder to ask that question.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on January 08, 2013, 01:46:03 PM
Lots of people wear construction workboots even if they are not working in a construction site. All kinds of jobs can call for safety boots. There are so many possibilities. I would forget the boots.

For one thing I think more than one person is involved.
Obvious hate for Sonia, did she reject someone, perhaps on the dating site.? Work?
I don't think we a dealing with a mass murderer, yet. But that doesn't mean he won't do it again someday.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 08, 2013, 09:19:18 PM
I have always felt that Sonia was killed by a younger man for some reason. Back to the boots: younger men have less access to skilled professional careers, and might be found in greater numbers in manual labour jobs requiring workboots. Remember this was August, not a time to be wearing boots unless needed for some reason.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 09, 2013, 11:53:14 AM

quote Fridgiebear: "Do we know if these were actually workboots or just a rugged hiking boots? "unquote.

Yes, these boots  are also hiking boots.  (Used for hiking and camping - short tops- just above the ankle)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on January 09, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
It's also possible that IF this was a premeditated act (and I'm not suggesting it was, since IDK), the perp might have worn something very UNlike his usual footwear. I remember something about a crime in the US where the killer (I think he murdered his parents) tracked through the blood in boots several sizes too large for him to "cover his tracks" so-to-speak. Sorry I don't have time to search for a link for that info -- but the good news is he was caught, because he bought those boots (and other materials associated with the crime) with a credit card shortly before the murder. So he wasn't so clever, after all!
Anyway. I don't know if the boots are the key in this case, or not. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to see justice on the horizon the more time passes. I hope Sonia's family is managing to stay strong.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 09, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Soccermom;  I saw that program  and thought about Sonia as well.  It may be possible that the killer did not wear his own boots.

One thing that concerns me is that as time goes on, people's memories fade, and it loses its accuracy.
Perhaps those who had something to report have already given their suspicions to the police a long time ago.

I wonder if this may possibly leave only a family member of the perp or close friend of the perp left to give a good heads up to the police.

I wonder what the chances are for that?

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 09, 2013, 09:01:40 PM
I wonder why we keeping using the terms "boots", as Windriver have identical types which are of a running shoe type. ie: low cut.
The police said that they were either Windriver or ?  I forget the name of the one.
I remember looking at both on MWW and they came in different boot height, and some were low cut ,  but the soles were the same pattern.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 09, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
We have been calling them boots because the police/media very clearly said "work boots" and printed photos of work boots:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/858113--footprint-may-lead-to-sonia-s-killer-opp

If there are indeed shoes and runners with the identical type of workboot sole, then the police and media have led us all astray and I hope they wouldn't have been that incompetent to misinform the public!

Also at the above link you can read how neighbours of Sonia's commonly left doors unlocked before her murder. Do we have any idea whether Sonia commonly left her door unlocked?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 09, 2013, 09:50:37 PM
Thanks for that.  The other type were Dakotas.  The Windriver are used for hiking.  I did put up the link way, way back from MWW where they gave the types and did show the soles which matched the type of sole that  the police were showing

Here is an up to date link of MWW boots, which show Windriver and the runner type, although this advert does not show the soles. They no longer carry Dakotas.

http://www.marks.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&productId=123269&Colour=Brown

http://www.marks.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?resultCatEntryType=&pageView=image&catalogId=10051&showResultsPage=true&top_category=17001&parent_category_rn=17016&beginIndex=0&categoryId=17018&langId=-1&storeId=10151&sType=SimpleSearch

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 09, 2013, 09:55:20 PM
Those are definitely hiking boots you are posting with a price of $169.99 at MWW whereas the police said that the workboots in question sold for $130 at MWW.

The workboots are not advertised under menswear on the MWW site but under work wear. There are some Dakota work boots here at $139.99 so maybe they have gone up by $10 in the past couple of years:

http://www.marks.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/marks-marksdefaultsalescatalog/workwear/safety-footwear/wmns-mackenzie-6--stsp-workboot-17410

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 09, 2013, 10:04:57 PM
That was in 2010.

jb :)

Anyhow, I spent one whole Sunday afternoon looking at MWW catalogue in 2010 to check these boots.
And I posted the link way back in the Sonia #1 thread.
The only reason why I am raising the question of boots.  Is that we refer to them and cops as well - as work boots, when in fact these boots can be used for hiking.  This could well explain why they were worn on a hot August day in 2010.  I wonder if perhaps they were worn for the pleasure of outdoor activity, and not necessarily work?
Pictures of Sonia and her friends at summer  Camp Coucooching (sp) shows a woman wearing this type of hiking boot.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 09, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
They say you can tell a great deal by a person's footwear and I believe there is some truth to that. Someone in hiking boots shows a love of the outdoors, whereas these classic workboots worn in the summer (even if they were not actually used for work that day) indicates someone more likely to be working class I believe. Perhaps this person drives a truck, as the truck and work boots seem to go together style wise. I don't see a person hopping into a fancy sportscar in Mark Work Wearhouse work boots!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on January 09, 2013, 10:30:33 PM
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-say-work-boots-key-clue-in-varaschin-murder-1.550659        Clearly the police said "Work Boots"
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on January 10, 2013, 04:21:18 PM
We were taught to wear steel toed boots when we cut the lawn. Could be these boots were only used for gardening and yard chores.

Logical.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on January 10, 2013, 09:10:08 PM
The townhouse complex is run by a condo. corp., so they would have a company that comes in to mow the lawn etc. The maintenance staff would probably wear work boots.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 10, 2013, 09:11:32 PM
The townhouse complex is run by a condo. corp., so they would have a company that comes in to mow the lawn etc. The maintenance staff would probably wear work boots.

Good point Ron.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 11, 2013, 09:38:36 AM
Good point Ron.  This would be a person who would be normally seen in the area and would not raise any suspicion.
He would be "part of the neighbourhood".
One other question, generally speaking owners of condo's are not responsible for broken fences, etc.  (Outdoor repairs). Would this be the case in Sonia's townhouse complex?
I couldn't help but notice in pics that the decks were in bad repair, and needed some painting.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on January 11, 2013, 10:00:17 AM
I live in a Condo Townhouse. We are only responsible for the inside. The Condo Corp takes care of everything outside. ( windows,roof, snowplowing,lawn. even outside doors and outside light fixtures. )
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 11, 2013, 07:58:23 PM
Ron - thank you.  That is so important to know. :)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 15, 2013, 08:18:05 PM
I believe it was Wellwell and Jobo who discussed this guy on Sonia's thread.

Have a lookee.   See what you think>
He is a doctor who was on dating sites.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/08/24/10587246.html

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on January 18, 2013, 03:57:16 PM
Was he employed at any place that Sonia worked in the past??? :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on January 18, 2013, 04:52:34 PM
Cape, I think that is a very good place for LE to start. Not only this doc., but other males she has worked with in the past. Hope they are investigating this possibility. Someone knew her well.?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 18, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
From the get-go, when I heard Sonia had worked with a youth program at some point in her career, I wondered if it was a troubled youth. That was my first reaction, that it had been a young person, if not a teenager then I would guess under 30 years old and younger than she was. I don't see a crazy doctor running around in Mark Work WearHouse boots and dragging a dead body around town but anything is possible!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 22, 2013, 03:32:01 PM
Over the last 2 and a half years, I still wonder about those whom she worked with each summer as a volunteer at a young childrens camp - Camp Coucooching - spelling error here. 
There were male and female councillors at that camp, and many wore short below the ankle hiking boots.

It was a weekend when this camp had a pause - the end of August, and then they would begin their fall program to the public.  I have even expressed this on Sonia's two sites, many times.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: art-hu on January 22, 2013, 06:16:48 PM
Leona, I also believe it was someone younger than her. How many years did she volunteer at camps.? Was this a local camp or could anyone attend.? How far is camp Couchiching? from Orangeville.?   Someone she has known for sometime.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on January 22, 2013, 09:53:24 PM
Thanks for those summer camp details Jellybean. Let's hope the police are all over that one but it must be a huge group of people to research who attended. The steel toe and steel shank on work boots is so heavy that they are not recommended for hiking and would not be comfortable for down-hill hiking. But in flat terrain and in a pinch, someone could resort to work boots for hiking of course.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 23, 2013, 06:45:41 PM
Hiking boots do not have a steel toe - but they had similar threads.  MWW does not appear to be so specific
with treads on their boots.  As I said, two years ago, MWW did show the soles of their boots, and their hiking boot were very similar to the boots shown on the Police Conference video.   How unfortunate that the cops displayed the knee top heavy boots in the foreground, and did not prominently display the boots (ankle length cut ) which they had in the background.

As a result citizens are looking at the feet of Orangeville Citizens with the big ugly boots displayed (the style) not the treads.   This would throw anyone off, when the treads can appear on many types of boots.
(Cheap, cheap, cheap)   Very cheap boots period. 

The fact that the last update coming from an exwife who said that her ex husband who wore a 91/2 sized MWW boot, who purchased them in 2012, tells us alot. 

First, the cops said that the killer wore a size 10 to 11  size boot, either

Wind River brand  and Dakota  carried the same threads on th bottom of the footwear.  You could not tell one brand from the other re" the SOLES.

Now to my mind, the footprints left in blood in Sonia's home must have been faint, because guess what?
These two brands DAKOTA AND WIND RIVER also  come in half sizes.  If the boot prints left at the murder scene were that clear, then  (the cops would know exactly the size) 10 or 10 and half, or size 11. 

To prove my point,  they are now looking at 91/2  by a recent swab taken from a man who purchased these boots from MWW last year - big difference betweens between the outsize give to the larger  size which is size  11. - and the desperation by bringing someone in two years after Sonia's death who purchased a pair of boots from MWW in a 91/2 boot size.   Do you get it?

JB




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on January 24, 2013, 10:28:18 AM
hey JB: yes, I agree that it seems depressing ... that LE doesn't have more in hand. And yet I continue to hope that they know more than they are letting on and/or it will be something small but soon that will break Sonia's case open.

About the sizing: the boot print in blood may have been faint, but to my mind that isn't the reason for the call of a 10 or 11 size. A person might buy a size 11 boot but be a size 10 foot: the larger size might accommodate heavy socks, an orthotic or comfort sole, or swelling in warm weather and heavy foot wear -- or because the larger size is on sale, or last pair, or..... (Whereas people are not likely, of course, to buy a size too small). The call for size 10 or 11, I believe, is LE's assurance that someone won't say to themselves: oh, but he's a size 10, not 11, as a way to convince themselves NOT to call in a tip. Also: some footwear fits folks differently than their usual size.....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on January 24, 2013, 01:54:22 PM
"...they are now looking at 91/2  by a recent swab taken from a man who purchased these boots from MWW last year..."

This is encouraging, to some, Jellybean.  Do you have a source for this ongoing investigation? 

Thanks!
Dan.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 24, 2013, 02:06:51 PM
Quote:  Dan: "This is encouraging, to some, Jellybean.  Do you have a source for this ongoing investigation?

What an odd question Dannybam.  I don't know how to respond to it. With all due respect, I am not sure what  you mean by that - re Source of this ongoing investigation.  If you mean provide the link - you will find this statement made by the ex-wife on Websleuth. 

Hope this helps :)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 24, 2013, 02:41:29 PM
Soccermom:  Yes it is possible that someone would go a half size larger on their boots to make room for work socks. So if that is the case, then why would cops check this man who wears a size 9 and 1/2?  In other words, he may only wear a size 9 boot - and got an extra 1/2 size to fit the socks.  A far cry from the original sizes stated - that is, if all wearers of these boots went to an extra 1/2 size to make room for their work socks? ???  Size 9 1/2 with room for worksocks would still  be a far cry for a size 10, or 11.
That is what I am alluding to - the boot prints were faint in the murder scene.
I also have thoughts on why>

JB  ;)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on January 24, 2013, 08:15:59 PM
I was wondering, since so much publicity has been surrounding this size 10 boot, how many people that prior to August 29, 2010 use to purchase size 10 boots, are now buying 10 and 1/2  or 11 size just to avoid becoming part of the investigation.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on January 25, 2013, 12:40:41 PM
Thanks for figuring out what I wanted, in spite of my poor phrasing, and pointing me in the right direction, JB.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 31, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
I was wondering, since so much publicity has been surrounding this size 10 boot, how many people that prior to August 29, 2010 use to purchase size 10 boots, are now buying 10 and 1/2  or 11 size just to avoid becoming part of the investigation.

Very good point Concerned.  Hmm - maybe he is buying a totally different brand and is not purchasing from MWW anymore.

It is wonderful news that Kera's killer has been caught.  This was however, her boyfriend.  I would have thought that her case would have been far more complex to solve.   If Sonia was on dating sites, as per LE, then her case could take even longer to solve.

The solving of Kera's murder does give hope that perhaps they just may, just might solve Sonia's.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 01, 2013, 11:29:03 AM
This article also belongs on Sonia's thread IMO.  The bolding in the text is mine.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/31/arrest-made-in-toronto-escorts-murder


Will arrest in nurse's slaying be next?
By Joe Warmington,Toronto Sun

 First posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:07 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 31, 2013 09:17 PM EST
 
TORONTO - Wonder if Sonia Varaschin's brutal killer follows the Toronto Sun on Twitter?

The man arrested Thursday in Calgary and accused of Kera Freeland's murder does.
 
It's not unusual for killers on the lam to keep up on social media.
 


 Russell Williams did. The disgraced former colonel was a regular on police and media websites looking at whatever clues may be offered.
 
Luka Magnotta was also keeping up with the investigation in the murder of Lin Jun while he was in Paris before his arrest last year.
 
When you are allegedly trying to hide something that heinous it only makes common sense to keep one eye on the door.
 
When you are out there free, it's always good to keep up on what might be going on with a case you can be sure has not been forgotten by police.
 
With today's technology it's just a matter of time before the knock on the door comes.
 
Or should it be that it won't be long before that door is kicked down.
 
The reality is if police have DNA evidence from a murder scene, it's only a matter of time before they come up with a match because they are won't stop looking until they do.
 
An example is this Freeland case. They found her body in Caledon in March 2011 and all old-school-type investigative leads seemed to be going nowhere.
 
It seems whoever dumped her body out there in a ditch was a ghost.
 
"Investigators never lost focus," said OPP Sgt. Peter Leon. "We always say in a case like this, 'as each day passes we are one day closer to making an arrest.' "

Christopher Andronakos found that out first-hand.
 
He was arrested in Calgary Thursday morning and is expected to be brought back to Ontario Friday to face murder charges. The 35-year-old, who had been Freeland's roommate in Toronto, was, according to sources, interviewed soon after her disappearance.
 
Two years later he's in custody.
 
Today's science can be formidable. It's going to be interesting to see if there was some DNA assistance from the pregnant Freeland's fetus to help police get to where they got to.
 
Time will tell. The charges against Andronakos are only allegations and have not been tested in court. He will have his opportunity to defend himself.
 
So when's it going to be the turn Varaschin's killer? The 42-year-old nurse was viciously murdered in her Orangeville home three years ago this summer.
 
What is your name? Where are you?
 
Like in the Freeland case, there's a feeling that someone is getting away with murder.
 
But the game is never over.
 
Varaschin's killer has got to be wondering when an OPP officer like Sgt. Jim Smyth might drop by for a chat?
 
Or if this has already happened, the killer is only left to wonder.
 
In Varaschin's case, there are three crime scenes and the word passion was used to describe what kind of killing it was.
 
It can't be easy to sleep. Three crime scenes surely provided the crime lab specialists something to run through their computer.
 
"It's very complex and very active," Leon said. "We don't close the books on these until we find the person responsible."

Keep reading the Toronto Sun, Sonia's killer, because we are going to stay on it too.


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 01, 2013, 02:53:35 PM
Good for Kera. Not that it was all that complex or tough to figure, live in roomie/boyfriend, pregnant girl. He should have been checked as per all the usual suspect identification criteria. DNA once again rises to the occasion and confirms what old investigation techniques could only suspect. For Kera there was but one suspect, one set of dna to test. That took two years start to finish.

Sonia is a Little more complex or so it would seem. Despite the act of passion designation, Sonia's bf has been cleared for unknown reasons. The easy answer has eluded the authorities. 700 plus dna tests ensued at a time when budget cutbacks are now being made a priority. Is this really good news for Sonia?

The newpaper speaks well, I hope they continue to speak out.
Quote
"It's very complex and very active," Leon said. "We don't close the books on these until we find the person responsible."

Keep reading the Toronto Sun, Sonia's killer, because we are going to stay on it too.

Some cases grab the public interest in a way they become a driving force for change. Big powers know that and use that. Universal dna testing coming soon for all? All except 1 that is.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on February 01, 2013, 04:15:31 PM
Quote
Good for Kera. Not that it was all that complex or tough to figure, live in roomie/boyfriend, pregnant girl

According to an article I posted this morning, this roomie/boyfriend is not thought to be the father of the baby. That info is posted on Kera's thread.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 01, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
Sorry, I had forgotten that in the TO sun's article posted was wrong to make a connection from Kera's fetus to the killer.  The Sun  jumped to conclusions.  It was Kera's male room mate who murdered her.  He hung around Toronto, and left for Calgary 2 months ago.  Good work by the police.  Here again, it was someone that she knew.  Even though she belonged to an Escort Agency, and even her friends had thought it could have been caused by a bad date.  Surprise - it was not.  It was someone whom she knew.

I hope that the TO Sun keeps up with Sonia's case. I agree with the Sun that he must be tied to reading  social media.  The only public attention given to her cause on a regular basis is through social media such as Unsolved and perhaps a few others.  One good thing - just google her name and something will come up in social media to remind us that her murderer is still out there.

I would not be surprised if he sits at his computer late at night googling her name and yes, even reading Unsolved.  Why he may even snicker at some of our theories, or may even break out in a sweat on  other thoughts put forward.  Anyway he cuts it - he cannot feel too safe or too smug -now that Kera Freeland's murder was solved.
The killer knows he was sloppy, he also knows that so far he is lucky - or is he?  Will his luck run out tomorrow? or the next day?  Whatever the case, he cannot be enjoying life like the rest of us do.

JB 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on February 01, 2013, 07:17:29 PM
JB your right and for all we know he could be a member of this site and even posting on this site . We just dont know . Hope we soon do.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 01, 2013, 07:48:04 PM
I don't think her killer would post on any site.  He is a coward. Not much of a man to speak of.   I picture him up late at nite on the computer keeping track of things though.  I think he is hiding.  Hiding what he did from his family, friends, and may have become distant and more reclusive.  Edgy, anxious, and quick tempered. 
Ya, that is how I picture him.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on February 01, 2013, 10:01:32 PM
lolol JB and I picture him differently I picture him as figuring he got away with it, and feeling very proud of him self, for all we know the killer could be reading this site, for kicks , they could be even prehaps portrayed  as a woman .  Guess we will never no though for sure.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 02, 2013, 10:04:22 AM
I am almost certain, note almost, that LE also read this site - Example:  How many times have we brought up a concern as to dna testing, citing that there may be a long lag waiting for results? 
This was answered by LE in their last announcement.  They are using 3 labs - including a private lab.

IR also keeps track of what we say.  We mentioned his FB page, and the next thing we know - he removed it.
No harm in doing that.  But my point is, he does read SV's thread, in my opinion.  But then, of course he would be interested, as SV was his girlfriend.

Orangeville.com (online paper) a reporter came on this site and told us to watch for an article.

All the more reason why I, at times will "allude to" without directly saying. ;)

Re: Worthington's article - saying "crime of passion".  Le have never said that it was.  The only thing they said about the killer was "He is a cold-blooded killer"

""By providing a DNA sample you will assist in our efforts to catch the person responsible for the senseless and brutal slaying of this innocent woman and bring them to justice", said Detective Inspector Andy Karski of the OPP's Criminal Investigation Branch. "It is completely confidential and by agreeing to provide this voluntary sample you will be doing a great service to your community and public safety", Karski added.
Karsai refers to the killer as "the person" - then he says "bring them justice". Were two people involved? 

It will a BIG DAY, when the announcement of an arrest is finally made.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 02, 2013, 05:30:57 PM
Thinking outside the box today.  Police went to the Orangeville Farmers Market to see if anyone saw Sonia on the Sunday - the reason for this was given by a poster who lives in O'ville - Sonia had items in her home from a Farmers Market. 

If I recall Sonia met her boyfriend in a Farmers Market and her whereabouts on the Sunday after leaving her parents home until she was seen by her neighbours in the early evening shows a few hours missing.

I wonder if she met someone at another Farmers Market in a different district on that Sunday.

Apart from checking persons within a geo area, and those who had contact with her on a dating site, I am wondering if she met her killer at a Farmer's Market on that Sunday.

Regarding dating sites, one member of LE did say that Sonia gave too much information about herself on  dating sites. (this would make her very vulnerable)  In fact those who are experienced in using them, caution people not to divulge personal info about themselves other than generalities.

Why would police make a statement about catching her killer for reasons including Public Safety?
Does this not imply that there is a stalker who uses dating sites?

To quote from post 397

""By providing a DNA sample you will assist in our efforts to catch the person responsible for the senseless and brutal slaying of this innocent woman and bring them to justice", said Detective Inspector Andy Karski of the OPP's Criminal Investigation Branch. "It is completely confidential and by agreeing to provide this voluntary sample you will be doing a great service to your community and public safety", Karski added.

Just wondering.........

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on February 02, 2013, 06:57:53 PM
It's good to have the farmer's market info JB. We are stymied because it always seems to come down to the notion that this was a crime of passion, which means the killer knew Sonia, which means that the police should by now have a pretty good idea who it was. And yet no progress.

But good to think outside the box and consider maybe she met her killer that very day at the market. The Mark's Work wear house boots worn in the summer could also correspond to a farmer, if not a construction worker, trucker, tradesman, or other kind of labourer.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on February 05, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
I am not positive,but I think her cause of death has never been made public.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on February 05, 2013, 11:58:09 PM
My understanding of the facebook site whokilledsonia , is that the woman who ran it was deported, from Canada, and a lot of specualtion in regards to her and the site

no cause of death has ever been released by the police, so we do not know. Wonder what makes that woman running the site say she was strangled when all the media comments were on blood which would not come from strangulation.

My opinion is the woman running that site did not go from facts but her own ideas, and there way a lot of problems over that site, to my understanding
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on February 06, 2013, 12:19:57 AM
Quote
My opinion is the woman running that site did not go from facts but her own ideas, and there way a lot of problems over that site, to my understanding

We've also had problems on this site, due to things that were posted there and linked to UC. All of that was removed some time ago, by Admin.

I have now removed the recent link to that fb page.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on February 08, 2013, 11:53:55 AM
If the killer was from a dating website, and planned the "attack" using the resources available on the internet, he might have chosen his route according to google maps (pic related).

That doesn't really "fit" with the body being dumped so near her ex-boyfriend's house, though.

I think he's gotten "lucky" more than once in this investigation, and it will take a link to another crime to find him.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 08, 2013, 02:17:41 PM
I agree Dannybam - the internet has much in the way of resources for a stalker out there.  O'ville is a very small area in a way, and I would imagine that logically speaking  her body would be placed
in Caledon.  Looking at the roads it can connect to many residences.

It gave me chills - when LE said that by  giving a cheek swab to check DNA would be a public duty to catch the killer for Sonia's sake and for Public Safety.

The killer has been described by LE as being a "cold blooded killer".

Dating sites can be dangerous for some and a blessing for others.

I am not saying that dating sites had anything to do with her demise.  It could well be someone else.
We just don't know.  However the focus is on dating sites, as well as others whom may have crossed her path in life.
And the focus is also on people living within the geo area, not that she necessarily  knew him - but as the police said, he may be familiar with her. So adding it up - dating sites make sense to me.

Law Enforcement has a big job in solving this, and from what I have read they are determined to run this killer down.

The question remains, in my mind it is this ---- Is this killer a  danger to the public?   Will it take another murder, as you suggest, to connect it?  Scary prospect, and maybe so.

Must we have another lovely victim from this killer in order to make a connection  in solving the murder of Sonia Varaschin? God, I hope not -----

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on February 08, 2013, 06:55:26 PM
I have been following on here since I first  found out about Sonia after reading the newspaper article talking about the boots LE was focusing on, always hoping that this case would be solved.  If LE is concerned about Sonia on dating sites would this be an indication that the perp may not have lived near Orangeville?  I know of people who have used these type of sites and their dates will travel 1 or more hours to meet up.  I wonder if LE should put out another press release asking for more tips that would include a wider area scale which could bring in the turning tip. Someone may know something but because they can't place it to Orangeville they may not think it to be significant. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on February 08, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
Some will travel farther apparently. I knew a lady who travelled from Ab to Quebec after falling for a man through an internet site. She's still with us, but the point I am making is some will travel a lot farther and if it's someone who has that urge to murder and get out of dodge ... anything is possible.

eta:
Compare all that is known about Sonia's murder with the following and it may seem more likely that police have not expanded their search wide enough, imo.

http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 14, 2013, 11:03:21 AM
The article posted by SAP above is a very good starting point for learning how to better understand the killers and the crime scenes they leave behind. It is more technical and more of a science than most of us realize at first. It is all very educational and thought provoking which trait could apply to this crime.

There is a combination of clues left behind here that are quite complex and could be looked at in several different ways. There are many points that go into making any determination and they all need to agree one to another in some sequence and point in some direction to be plausible. One of the main points of divergence even prior making any determinations such as those categorizations in the link above is whether this is a serial crime or not. Some of the points that go to answering that are contained in that link above. Very interesting how and where it points IMO.

Jb-
Quote
Thinking outside the box today.  Police went to the Orangeville Farmers Market to see if anyone saw Sonia on the Sunday - the reason for this was given by a poster who lives in O'ville - Sonia had items in her home from a Farmers Market. 

If I recall Sonia met her boyfriend in a Farmers Market and her whereabouts on the Sunday after leaving her parents home until she was seen by her neighbours in the early evening shows a few hours missing.

If you keep adding up things like this with the Police profile, you do come to some sort of realization how familiar the suspect was with many parts of Sonia's life. Possibly add one more here. Who was familiar with Sonia's home and area, the body drop site area, the farmers market, knew her door was open, (or had a key) Knew where the car keys were kept, and and and ... Coincidence sort of falls apart the deeper you look.

That was good mapping of the possible walking route taken by the perp DannyB. I suspect it was not the first time he had walked that route. I suspect he had parked his own vehicle over by where Sonia's car was found several if not many times before. Likely frequented that Tim Hortons too imo.

To catch a cold blooded killer requires a cold blooded approach. No emotional determinations. DNA is the way to go all else being equal. A 25 year old California cold case recently solved by DNA revealed a suspect who had been cleared by other means at the time. The dead woman's father was adamant at the time that another woman should be investigated. That was too bizarre for Police to contemplate at the time and the other woman was cleared on that presumption alone. 25 years later she was convicted by DNA.

DNA cuts through any and all excuses when applied universally without discrimination or any emotional subjective determinations. Part of a good investigation is following good procedure with tight controls. Let the DNA determine who to rule in or out.., not the poi or the investigator or some alibi. Procedure is as important as any other investigative tool.

There is someone out there who matches all of the criteria required to be Sonia's killer who has obviously not been tested yet. At last count the concentric circle of testing had passed 700. I'm not so sure they need to look further afield but closer. JMO

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on February 14, 2013, 01:15:35 PM
I wonder if Sonia's murder might compare in some way to the following case of several years ago, other than the positioning and moving of bodies/body?

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6601.0

This guy was only 15 at the time. IMO, he felt uprooted by the fact his mom married another man and had 2 more children and to me everything he did points to his frustration with his mother and he seems to view her as a sexual being rather than his mother.
So comparing that with Sonia's case, I would think the suspect was quite familiar with Sonia, her whereabouts and her total life and was probably someone Sonia dated at some point in her life. It could have been even someone from 10 to 15 years ago or so who held a grudge and his anger kept growing.
Does it make sense to anyone else?

On another thread, a member posted that she had a friend who was a prosecutor or something to do with the court system and was told that the majority of cases that were dealt with were bad dates from dating sites. And still another thread, I believe under Ontario where a serial killer was on a dating site.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 14, 2013, 01:44:26 PM
Then we have the disappearance of Penny Warne, who also went onto dating sites.  From Orangeville to Wasaga Beach it is about an one hour drive and change.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 14, 2013, 02:18:26 PM
There are similarities to several points in the other cases here. Moving bodies can have different motives and meanings. In the case of the 15 year old, it was his own family he killed and he stayed at the same house as them even for a short time after the murders. He just moved their bodies a short distance away but acted out in a different way individually against each. The short move is consistent with a first timer and the acts performed are versions of acts of passion so to speak. Something set him off and his emotion and feelings were evidenced by what he did to the victims. 

If there were a comparison to made with Sonia's killer, the first timer aspect may be an appropriate call, likewise the act of passion. The killers DNA has not surfaced in any data base nor has it been linked to any other crime victim. There seems something singular, personal, and targetted towards Sonia alone.

The Police have expanded the search parameters far and wide. Dating sites could be a potential lurking spot for a killer in waiting but this does not seem to match that imo. Records would have shown up from Sonia's computer as to who she had been in contact with. The only unusual visitor was a friend who was to show up that week from Jasper for a visit. According reports (no longer available) the visitor did not arrive til after Sonia was missing and murdered. Perhaps that is why Sonia was at the market, preparing to entertain her friend? Perhaps the killer saw that?

Dating sites leave a great deal of information behind both on the participants computer as well the hosting website. It happens, but like the craigslist killer, they are caught by the same means they use to get to know their victims. They leave information behind. Court ordered disclosure forces websites to comply and the results would have been in long ago. 700 tests later, check off the dating sites IMO. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on February 15, 2013, 12:04:21 AM
I'm beginning to think that in order to be listed on a dating site, the site should require DNA be registered. Sounds too intrusive, but hey, safety first.

Regarding the computer forensics of daters corresponding by computer, remember people use internet cafes. And, even if there is proof of a person corresponding, that is not enough to arrest a person. I wish, though, that the LE computer systems would share information with each other about a person that has been brought in for questioning on one case, being red flagged if he/she is under questioning for another.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2013, 01:18:12 AM
I believe the Police do have an internal system to collect and pass information on individual poi. It is searchable by them only and some is on a need to know basis only.

Internet cafes are getting pretty scarce out my way and the last one I attended asked me for a valid email ID. Their computer required me to use my own email address just to log in. Most access is provided just by wifi to your own machine at most hot spots now. We all have our ip addresses logged. But we all know if someone wants to get something bad enough they will find a way.

In Sonia's example, they have her computer to back track from. If there were some indication or a poi on line they would likely be concentrating on that source. Instead we more hear the local population here and there claiming one or another was tested over boot size. 700 so far.

The circumstance here more suggests a perp with an inside working knowledge of Sonia's life more so than was likely by an online relationship. IMO
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on February 15, 2013, 10:05:00 AM
I am wondering about technology......what if the perp bought a new computer---would LE be able to track an old computer not used-----are these traceable to aid in tracking cases, hopefully so!  Also with cellphones- this opens up a wide field as people are trading in new phones all the time and using different email addresses.  Hopefully if there is any info regarding technology LE can track it to find Sonia's murderer.  This case needs to be solved soon. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on February 15, 2013, 04:43:23 PM
I think what you are saying re the computers would be mindboggling and does not seem to be a constructive way of investigating this crime. I think her phone records should have been read over for at least the last month to see who was calling her and who she was contacting. Sometimes the police forget certain things until much later. They have to be meticulous within the first at least 72 hours of the crime. And I would be willing to bet, the answer is in the investigations they have already done. It has to be gone over again. We see it so often, there is a clue that has been called in, a tip or something and it wasn't checked out. Every single tip has to be gone over once again to make sure that nothing was missed. Start dissecting everything from the day the crime was reported. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2013, 05:29:44 PM
I totally agree with you here Cape. Although there is merit to what everyone is saying in regard the computer security and identification issues in general, I don't see all that being the first and foremost concern here with Sonia.

I believe as you say Cape, it isn't always a eureka moment on the part of some shrewd investigator that solves a crime but often just a steady application of due diligence and boring attention to the minutest of detail that closes all loopholes and ensures the integrity of the entire investigation including the DNA dragnet. That includes going right back as far as the individuals collecting the first DNA samples. The official team was properly trained for taking the later samples, but the early ones? 

That could be what has happened here. The original investigators were known to have cleared suspects early on through a process other than DNA testing. Those investigators were eventually replaced and the new official DNA testing procedure began. Somewhere in the cross over phase someone possibly slipped through the net. I too believe that is where the investigation should refocus. Find the hole in the net and you may find who went through it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on February 19, 2013, 11:45:53 AM
I totally feel that is the case here. And I always feel that way about Kyron's case too, the little boy that was never found. The initial day of the investigation was screwed up, some clue or tip was not run down and investigated and that failed to solve these crimes. :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 21, 2013, 02:36:06 PM
There is a hole in the net, and someone did slip through it.  LE must back track and go back to square one.
It is closer to home.  In my opinion.  Have always felt that way. Even tried different scenarios but it leaves something lacking - it never adds up!

Someone knew her - where she lived - the layout of her townhouse - knew that she was at home that nite(knew that she changed jobs and was no longer working as a nurse (nite shift).  She kept her car in the garage.  He knew where to find her car keyes. Knew the area very well, knew the cops routes and felt comfortable in transporting her body to where he left her, in a very familiar area to him. He knew so much about her.  He knew that she was home and had to be at work in the Monday a.m.
Being neat and tidy, and not a thief, he returned her car to a very visible area where it would be found.
This tells me that he did care for her at some point.
Look close and have a second look at things.  As stated in the profile - He may have moved away from the area. This was a murder that screams UP FRONT AND PERSONAL! JMO
JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on February 22, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
Fridgiebear, I've said that from day one, the murderer is very close and lives in that area. I also believe the murderer is young, I mean from 17 to 21. I think that if the police go back and see who was living in that area and really do a check on anyone who has moved, they may hit on something they failed to investigate. I have watched two particular crime stories within the last few days, two cases were not solved for years. In the initial stages of both investigations, within hours of the crime the police had investigated the murderer's of each of these crimes. Both were very violent crimes against women. It was so evident that these men were very out front as suspects and it was let slide, I just could not believe it. Also, I just forgot about another one also, that person lived across the street from the victim and was interviewed and they felt he was the one that did it. However, four more women were murdered before the bell rang and they went straight to him and arrested him. I don't get it, they have these guys immediately and they just let them slide right through their fingers. I urge the police to go right back to square one on this case, the answer is there.  :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on February 23, 2013, 06:01:54 PM
I also agree with JB, it has always been my belief that Sonia's murderer lived close by.  Also interesting is her note about how and why the perp returned her car in the fashion it was returned. Some good work JB!
Deb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on February 23, 2013, 07:30:58 PM
I don't know why the murderer is described above as "neat and tidy". I thought he left a trail of blood behind him, left the car stained with blood and with the door open. Did I not read that Sonia's bedsheets were found somewhere separate  or a distance away from her body? But I could see it possibly being a young person. Possibly he had vague thoughts of hiding or burying her body but then realized he had no access to a shovel at that hour and could not risk going back to do so.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on February 24, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
Leonagleant --
if you look at the way Sonia's car was found, it lines up neatly and symmetrically in its space; it seems, at least, to be parked by someone with presence of mind or control. In other words, it is hard to imagine someone wildly high on drugs or very drunk to have parked the car as precisely it was found, IMO. The trail of blood does not contradict this for me; the more the perp may have tried to clean/hide his steps the greater, IMO, the trail of evidence he leaves. I believe the perp used the sheets as a sling for transporting Sonia; if this is so, it suggests the functioning of reason/logic after a crime of deep rage and passion. I agree with others, and not with LE,  that this is someone who keeps himself on a very tight emotional chain and when he breaks loose, the consequences are unspeakable.

There has been a lot of controversy as to whether the doors of the car were left open by the perp or photographed as such by MSM after LE initiated its searches. There is discussion here and on WS that the Greenhawks women who first reported the vehicle claim the vehicle was not found that way....

I think "neat and tidy" in the posts above offers a counter-position to LE's suggestion that drugs or alcohol may have been involved, and to the perp as an unnecessary risk-taker. I have explained my position on these "risks" in many posts already so I won't bore folks with them again here. All I will say is that, if this crime were, indeed, a truly sloppy one perpetrated by someone young and not fully in control of his faculties, then ... I'd have to believe Sonia would have justice by now.  I've always thought the FBI profile was a huge miss.  IMO.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on February 26, 2013, 09:21:18 PM
Thanks for that info above.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on February 26, 2013, 09:34:46 PM

if you look at the way Sonia's car was found, it lines up neatly and symmetrically in its space; it seems, at least, to be parked by someone with presence of mind or control. In other words, it is hard to imagine someone wildly high on drugs or very drunk to have parked the car as precisely it was found, IMO. The trail of blood does not contradict this for me; the more the perp may have tried to clean/hide his steps the greater, IMO, the trail of evidence he leaves. I believe the perp used the sheets as a sling for transporting Sonia; if this is so, it suggests the functioning of reason/logic after a crime of deep rage and passion. I agree with others, and not with LE,  that this is someone who keeps himself on a very tight emotional chain and when he breaks loose, the consequences are unspeakable.

There has been a lot of controversy as to whether the doors of the car were left open by the perp or photographed as such by MSM after LE initiated its searches. There is discussion here and on WS that the Greenhawks women who first reported the vehicle claim the vehicle was not found that way....

I think "neat and tidy" in the posts above offers a counter-position to LE's suggestion that drugs or alcohol may have been involved, and to the perp as an unnecessary risk-taker. I have explained my position on these "risks" in many posts already so I won't bore folks with them again here. All I will say is that, if this crime were, indeed, a truly sloppy one perpetrated by someone young and not fully in control of his faculties, then ... I'd have to believe Sonia would have justice by now.  I've always thought the FBI profile was a huge miss.  IMO.

I agree SM----regarding that this perp is on a tight emotional chain, and vengefully acts out when things don't go his way.  He would be organized once he pulled himself together and would manipulate things to take the attention away from himself--never owning up to his own behaviour possibly using others as scapegoats. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 27, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
On the issue of a possible youth offender, well -- it is possible. However, to my way of thinking - would a youth;

Take the time to remove her body?
Not steal anything?  (nothing was reported missing from her home other than her quilt and bedsheet - which was located eventually.)
Return her car to  within walking distance from her home?

In the meantime, I will stick with a mature person, who knew her well, and her murder was upfront and personal.
A charming but pathalogical liar to the nth degree.
A failure with female relationships, past and present. He  may be married, and if so, she would be miserable within it.
A deep down woman hater. Goes for the unsuspecting sweet type of woman.

And yet~~~~~~- the world is full of surprises.......and we may all be surprised as to the type of person he is when he is finally caught.

Only the killer really knows the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as to why he did it.
So far, he has not said one word.  No drunken bragging rights, not a whisper as to his involvement in the murder of Sonia Varaschin.
He is very smart in being quiet, but there is someone out there that has their suspicions about him, but for some reason are terrified to call his name into the police.
If so, I think it would be a woman.  One who needs him, possibly for family financial support.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on March 01, 2013, 06:48:57 PM
The general concensus of which we all agree upon is --  that something major was overlooked . And as we have all said in our own way, that  LE should go back to the very beginning, pour over everything, and DOUBLE CHECK THE ALIBIS.

DNA taking might have been skipped very early on in the investigation, especially if they were cleared and had rock solid alibis for that week end. Someone within that group might have been lying, and did a very clever cover- up as their whereabouts. Remember a good pathological liar gets away with alot. :D
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on March 03, 2013, 09:44:41 PM
I agree, JB -- there may be a woman he discloses to, IF he allows himself to get close. That is, if we're right that this is someone who had emotions for Sonia and snapped in an uncontrollable rage. If this is not a random crime (and most of us believe it's not) then he seems to have at once deep need for, and deep problems with, women. The former may lead to disclosure if the latter doesn't interfere. On the other hand, if he reads here as we suspect, he'll know we are hoping for this and will resolve not to trust. Drat.

Unlike LE's profile suggesting (b)rash behaviour, I wonder if the perp may even have even a modicum of military training -- the sheets used to carry the body, vicitm`s car used to protect his own from evidence (presuming he did not walk; I know we all have different ideas on that), removal of the body to inhibit full onset of investigation and to allow time to prepare alibi, clean evidence, and delay  witnesses from coming forward and remembering because of that lapse in time. LE describes the behaviour as risky -- but I see it enitely differently -- as "calculated." Who can park a car so neatly after performing that kind of horror?  Whose behaviour must be so calm as to NOT arouse suspicion? I think this is someone on a very, very tight reign -- not a wild or loose canon (except, of course, the crime itself is a mark of utter lack of control.)

But I still hold hope that he's not free. I believe there is one detail, one memory, one object, one witness, one thing somewhere sometime that will crack this open and grant Sonia's dear family the justice and answers they deserve.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on March 09, 2013, 05:31:47 PM
dna can also give race,hair and eye colour. wonder if this was done with dna from sonia's crime scene - broke my right wrist. am in cast. am a one handed wonder. lol ouch,
jb
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112681895/dna-test-hair-eye-color-082612/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on March 09, 2013, 05:59:25 PM
dna can also give race,hair and eye colour. wonder if this was done with dna from sonia's crime scene

If that's the case, and anyone would like to assume that LE have taken that into consideration, then the suspect must be a brown-haired, brown-eyed, honky. 

APB for white male... brown hair... brown eyes.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on March 09, 2013, 06:50:54 PM
And don't forget that rare size 10 shoe size.

I don't believe the authorities are legally allowed to do that sort of dna typing yet. It would yield very valuable information and it's likely just a mater of time before we go that route imo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on March 10, 2013, 03:30:54 AM
That is a really good point about DNA.
Funny enough I watched a crime reinactment show last night where they determined the perp had either green or blue eyes, fair hair and was of Western Europe descent.....just from his DNA left behind.
 I understood the numbers are already there in the DNA profile, it is just learning how to interpret them even more than they originally did, which scientists have managed to do.  It's too bad there is legal red tape then, if that's what you are saying, D1.

To apply this DNA break-down to Sonia's case would help law enforcement tremendously.

And...speaking of the boots.  Long gone, and if not, so worn that a comparison could never be done.  How many perps just throw evidence such as footwear into a dumpster close by?   Wonder if this guy did...even so, long gone.  I would imagine that Police need to get their hands on any perp's footwear very soon after the crime or else they would not be such a good piece of evidence.

I know how many pairs my loved ones go through....so, I wonder how well-worn the boot print from Sonia's house was?    Well worn would point more towards a man who wears his a lot, for work.... whereas a brand new, clear print might indicate that the boots were just for wearing once in while, or even just for this murder.
BUT... my hubby is alternating between two pairs right now, as he got new ones, but kindof hard to let go of the old. (my son is the same way)..a tradesman is more likely to have more than one pair.
So....to me the boot-print is not a real good clue., and seems to me it's the only one the Police gave.

 I am more likely to concentrate on the route the perp took.  What I gather is he most likely showed up to Sonia's on foot.  (I would lean towards coming in from the back green belt area.) 
Then, after getting into her house and attacking her, he removed Sonia into her car and then He drove south of Orangeville, heading towards Toronto, to dispose of Sonia on a less-travelled country road, but then turned around and took her car back to town. 
Then what??  How did he get out of the parking lot?  Walk?  To where? Could he walk home? OR  Was his car in the vicinity? Parked at the next block?
And....if he did leave a vehicle downtown....but came in from the greenbelt, that would mean he did one hell of a lot of walking that night. (or, did he have a bicycle?).  So, it's very confusing to try to follow this perp's path....there is no witnesses....(There must be some that saw the perp, IF he was walking, but thought nothing of it, as he may have been just walking as many people do at all hours around downtowns.)

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on March 14, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Jobo-
 
Quote
It's too bad there is legal red tape then, if that's what you are saying, D1.

I believe it is a red tape issue but a bit more than that too. It was some time back but I recall the term racial profiling being bantied about in relation to how much information the Police were allowed to extract from dna samples. Some groups were concerned where that could lead and law makers were going along with the arguments at the time. That was in the U.S .

There is a great deal more information contained in the dna samples they obtain than are being tested for. Even the ancestry dna testing services can tell which area your relatives came from and break it down to seperate paths for your mother and father. Someday they may even be able to make a sketch of a suspect just from that? 

I have not inquired if Canada allows more complex dna testing than the US but I doubt it. We seem to be lagging behind in that regard, human rights issues and all. Exemptions could be applied for and a court order could result if it were pushed? It isn't likely expressely prohibited. That is how laws are made and or modified, it has to begin somewhere.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on March 15, 2013, 12:16:34 PM
don't know how many of us have noticed.--- while we cdns do have fair haired and blue eyed people, and others within that range, for the most part we have brown hair and brown eyes within the caucasian group.  men average 5.10.
imo.
jb.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on March 16, 2013, 02:25:00 PM
I'm sticking to my theory, young person 17-21 years old, I would say, committed this crime.  Also, the person was a drinker or a drug user and they did know Sonia, they may have not been intimate, but they knew her.  Because of the fact that they removed her from the scene of the crime. The profilers usually say, when the murderer is known to the victim, they usually remove the body from the crime scene and in this way, they feel they removed themselves from being a suspect. I thought of this many times, when reading the evidence in this case.  Hiding in plain sight, the murderer is hiding in plain sight. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on March 16, 2013, 06:21:53 PM
in spport of cape's theory - altho it is not mine - what do we know

le tested 18 yrs and up
read on another website, where akid wrote that he and his mom freaked out when le came to their home and got a cheek swab from him,

sonia was working for a pharma company and a youth might believe that she had samples

they often do b and e's in pairs. arguing and scrreching of tires were heard around 3.30 am

her quilt was thrown out on the way from her drop off ste to or'ville. 2nd person?

break ins were picking up around that time.

whoever it is, was familiar with the townhouse, according to le.

we do know that youth stick together, which may explain the silence.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on March 16, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
 
On the issue of a possible youth offender, well -- it is possible. However, to my way of thinking - would a youth;

Take the time to remove her body?
Not steal anything?  (nothing was reported missing from her home other than her quilt and bedsheet - which was located eventually.)
Return her car to  within walking distance from her home?

In the meantime, I will stick with a mature person, who knew her well, and her murder was upfront and personal.
A charming but pathalogical liar to the nth degree.
A failure with female relationships, past and present. He  may be married, and if so, she would be miserable within it.
A deep down woman hater. Goes for the unsuspecting sweet type of woman.

And yet~~~~~~- the world is full of surprises.......and we may all be surprised as to the type of person he is when he is finally caught.

Only the killer really knows the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as to why he did it.
So far, he has not said one word.  No drunken bragging rights, not a whisper as to his involvement in the murder of Sonia Varaschin.
He is very smart in being quiet, but there is someone out there that has their suspicions about him, but for some reason are terrified to call his name into the police.
If so, I think it would be a woman.  One who needs him, possibly for family financial support.

JB


I don't think it was a young person and agree with JB.  It doesn't fit with the three crime scenes--youth would more likely act spontaneously and would be in a panic leaving more evidence. This crime seems more like a diabolical, cold criminal who only shows emotion when it benefits himself, or anger when things don't go his way.
Probably a good manipulator of people or emotionally detached from others revealing little about his true self. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on March 16, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
since the release of the profile what else has le told us thru the media?

he was familiar with sonia and her townhouse.  he was familiar with or'ville and caledon area

he may have ties to orangeville either through  family ties or business. i can't recall where i read that last statement.  it was
in their last update. it was said in passing, i believe.
jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on April 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AM


Crystal McLeod, a fourth-year nursing student at Nipissing University, is the inaugural recipient of the Sonia Varaschin Memorial Scholarship from the Registered Nurses’ Foundation of Ontario.
Orangeville Banner by   Chris Halliday

Sonia Varaschin’s spirit lives on in Crystal McLeod.

The fourth-year nursing student at Nipissing University is the inaugural recipient of the Sonia Varaschin Memorial Scholarship from the Registered Nurses' Foundation of Ontario (RNFOO).

“I’m sad in which the circumstances of the award came to me, but I’m really honoured to receive it,” McLeod said from her dorm room in North Bay.

“She must have been an extremely special person for the amount of dialogue that has been created,” the 22-year-old Port Elgin native added. “I really hope justice is brought to her family.”

In a variety of ways, McLeod is similar to the Orangeville nurse, whose murder in August of 2010 remains unsolved.

She is a member of her university’s student ambassador club, a residence don, and a peer mentor for nursing students, among other interests.

McLeod also loves the outdoors, especially snowshoeing in North Bay's frigid temperatures.

“Nipissing is like the best school ever for outdoor activities,” McLeod said. “We have a huge trail system and I’m a huge snowshoer. Me and my students are often out snowshoeing.”

That’s so Sonia Varaschin. At least that’s what the panel of 24 nursing professionals judging entries for RNFOO must have thought.

“We were delighted to be able to offer another scholarship, but particularly to offer one in Sonia’s name,” said RFNOO administrator Randy Carr. “It was certainly a popular award for applicants, no question.”

Of course, the $1,000 scholarship wouldn’t be available, if not for the efforts of Varaschin’s friend and former colleague Marija Bojic. After hosting a Zumba fundraising gala last year, Bojic, who worked with Varaschin at Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto for several years, donated money collected at the event to the RNFOO for the scholarship in her  friend’s name.

“The award will subsequently be provided year by year while the funds are still available,” Carr said, noting Bojic held a fundraiser last month to add onto the tally.

As Carr explained, Bojic determined the eligibility criteria for the scholarship. It’ll be handed out annually to a third- or fourth-year nursing student demonstrating leadership and a passion for healthy work environments.

At first, McLeod wasn’t aware of Varaschin’s history.

The 22-year-old, who has received scholarships from the RNFOO before, felt she fit the award's criteria.

After doing a little digging, however, she discovered Varaschin had been murdered, and that “her murderer hasn’t been caught,” McLeod said.

“It is really sad, and it seems like it is really affecting the Orangeville community,” she lamented. “It seems like everyone is still very upset about it.”

Hailing from a small town like Port Elgin, McLeod can identify with that sense of community grief.

“When something happens in my small town, everyone is very affected by it,” McLeod said. “I’m assuming Orangeville is the same way.”

When McLeod graduated high school, she knew nursing was the career path for her.

She finished a co-op placement in an emergency room and knew she had to pursue a job in health care.

Beginning in June, McLeod will start working on the medicine floor of a hospital on a new grad guarantee position, which secures nurses six months of full-time work once their scholarly pursuits are complete.

“I'm basically working with patients who have suffered strokes, maybe they are palliative.

“It is just a variety of illnesses, things like that,” she explained. “That is where I’m headed for the next six months.”

RNFOO, which started in 1972 as an arm of the Registered Nurses Association of Ontario (RNAO), provides financial support to registered nurses and nursing students.

In 2013, it handed more than 54 awards and scholarships worth more than $80,000 collectively.

Those numbers were a little bit higher this time around, as about 50 and $75,000 respectively.

                                                  http://www.orangeville.com/community-story/2517333-the-first-sonia-varaschin-scholarship-winner-is-/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: victimsfight on April 06, 2013, 03:15:17 AM
It seems that the police sticks the size of the boots and residents of Orangeville too much that might have slip other possibilities for the last couple of years. The murder could be from anywhere - Toronoto, Mississauga, London, Windsor... Man not necessarily be on the PlentyofFish.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 06, 2013, 09:47:07 PM
Just sitting an reviewing Sonias case , and I think perhaps we may have assumed or missed something here.
We are all assuming the perp used her car to drop her off where she was found.
Perhaps he didnt , perhaps he only took her car as far as the back of the stores it was found behind, moved her to his car , or truck, dumped her and kept on going?  That is a possibility and would make more sense than risking driving all the way there in her car better to load her in her car to get her away from the town house, then quickly shift her to his and away he goes, that would also explain the blood on her car.  Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 06, 2013, 10:33:46 PM
it's possible, assuming the area was desolate in the middle of the night and he was confident no-one would see him moving a body wrapped in blankets from one car to the next behind the stores.  Is t the area where the car was found walking distance from Sonia's apartment?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 06, 2013, 10:37:14 PM
yes it is a very very short walk like a couple of mins or so. But he would need to move her body in a car to make sure the risk of being seen was less so it makes sense to use her car assuming he may have been parked behind the stores there or near by and drove her car there and parked it and got his, did the transfer and left in his own vehicle .  Makes more sense to me than driving hers very far with a body in it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 06, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
At the very least it would seem he likely did park his car in that area and jumped into his car after returning in Sonia's car. Pity there were no video cameras in the area.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on April 06, 2013, 11:14:36 PM
To my mind, it's more likely he used her car, to avoid being seen with the transfer and to prevent accumulating more evidence in his own. I know some people have also speculated he didn't have a vehicle of his own, but had to return to O-ville to walk (home) which, I guess, is also possible.

So much silence! I keep hoping LE has more in hand than we think.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 07, 2013, 10:36:43 AM
Just sitting an reviewing Sonias case , and I think perhaps we may have assumed or missed something here.
We are all assuming the perp used her car to drop her off where she was found.
Perhaps he didnt , perhaps he only took her car as far as the back of the stores it was found behind, moved her to his car , or truck, dumped her and kept on going?  That is a possibility and would make more sense than risking driving all the way there in her car better to load her in her car to get her away from the town house, then quickly shift her to his and away he goes, that would also explain the blood on her car.  Just my thoughts.

That makes alot of sense to me. -if he did not live in her townhouse area - he would certainly want to keep on going that is for sure! Her car would be recognizable locally, but if he was out of town - his would not be.  I am going to ponder on this theory.

taken from post 438
he was familiar with sonia and her townhouse.  he was familiar with or'ville and caledon area

he may have ties to orangeville either through  family ties or business.

So - he may not live exactly in the area, but is very familiar with it through either work or business, or family

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on April 07, 2013, 03:35:47 PM
Just another thought, it surely could have happened that way. So many scenarios and still no arrests. This is a boggling case and I wonder if the police have a person in their minds they think may have done this. Of course with all of the DNA samples and everything, I guess they are right back to square one.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 07, 2013, 06:19:08 PM
LE have consistently said that this is a complex case. The last word re: obtaining DNA samples was 700 swabs from 700 people.  They said that they have a list of names, but would not divulge how many total names they have on their list.

Note to Killer:  Perhaps your name is on that list?
No knock on your door yet?  Well, the cops didn't say how long that list is.
Be patient, they will get around to you.!!!

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 07, 2013, 08:00:23 PM
yes it is a very very short walk like a couple of mins or so. But he would need to move her body in a car to make sure the risk of being seen was less so it makes sense to use her car assuming he may have been parked behind the stores there or near by and drove her car there and parked it and got his, did the transfer and left in his own vehicle .  Makes more sense to me than driving hers very far with a body in it.

Eyes---I have thought this before. It does make sense because the perp would be able to disconnect quickly from Sonia visibly to the public, if he was driving his own car. The less time he is in her car, the less likely someone would see him driving it, the less chance LE would spot it while on patrol.  Once he is in his own car he is disconnected from the crime to the public's eye.  I think that this could be the case and then he went somewhere to clean up--eg. motel?  The sideroad she was found on connects to Airport Road which heads right down to Toronto's Pearson International Airport area where there are many motels/hotels. jmo  What do others think?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 07, 2013, 11:12:57 PM
This was discussed before and as said, it could be but consider the logistics involved. You can read elsewhere about how hard it is to move a body. Its not as easy as you might think. How much did Sonia weigh? How slippery soaked in fresh blood? The area was according to some a late nite drug area, bars and restaurants locacted close by, people strolling about etc. It would be extremely risky to try that imo. One slip either way, unexpected witness or physical slip out of the trunk into what size vehicle door? The priority here was to get rid of the body as fast as possible without being seen, all else secondary.

If as was suggested the car bearing Sonia left her complex tires screeching right after an apparent scream was heard, the perp fleeing in panic drives two blocks to put Sonia in his own car? Those two behaviour descriptions do not match. That activity would transmit trace evidence from Sonia to the perps vehicle. Not a real smart move. We are speaking of two different types of people in effect in regard this question. One very disorganized and impulsive, the other more calculating and smart.   

The outskirts of town heading to dark and deserted areas is a scant two blocks or so from Sonia's townhouse going in the other direction.

Gets back to why remove Sonia in the first place? Whatever that was all about likely governed the rest of the proceedings. If Sonia could have identified the perp or if as it appears, Sonia and the perp were acquainted, the last thing the perp would want would be for any trace evidence to be left in his own vehicle. That would tie him to the crime. It wouldn't surprise me if the perp got cleaned up and brought a blanket or seat cover back with him to put in his own car before trading vehicles and fleeing. If he got a seat cover from somewhere home? likey means he would have to live out near where Sonia was found. The transfer of one vehicle to the other took place very fast imo, no fooling around no delays over anything whatsover. I doubt the perps car was left parked exactly beside where Sonia's car was found either. Just enough steps away for security sake. You don't want both vehicles to be tied together by location. While away the perp could never be sure who was around and parked nearby or took notice of his vehicle for any unknown reason. It would be smart to separate the parking locations. 

Of course any thing is possible but consider the logistics in relation the patterns of all else that is known and it may not be quite so likely. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 08, 2013, 06:34:50 AM
D1 just as you say, everything is a matter of opininion at this stage, In my opinion I would want to get out of her car as quick as possible to I wouldnt be found with it with either a body in it , or a missing woman.  Not likely would you want to drive all the way back to where it was found from where the body was dumped with blood as seen all over the out side of the car.  If it were me I would be wheeling in behind the stores where the chance of being seen is very small and switching to my own car, I mean I could clean it up and sell it quick enought before being suspected and just go home and clean up.  That is my thoughts as to why so little clues re transporting the body etc.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 08, 2013, 09:31:06 AM
Good points D1 and Eyes,

I do think when adrenalin is running, the perp would have more than enough strength to move Sonia's body. 

Back to the car scenario--I would think an organized perp would remove himself quickly but methodically from the crime (thus switching cars almost immediately--psychopathic), and a disorganized perp would have to backtrack and cover his crime (drive Sonia's car back and pick up his car-sociopathic) -ideas I thought once I read about the differences of the two in another topic area on this board.  If he is organized I think it would be difficult to see his guilt in his present behaviour, if he is disorganized I think his guilt would come through in his present behaviours. jmo  Have there been any further updates about the crime/perp to aid the public in identifying him? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2013, 02:52:47 PM
Physically he was no doubt capable but had already lost a pillow slip in the first move and likely realized it takes a bit of effort and attention attracting motions to do it. Bodies are not the same to move as live people. Sonia's body was apparently placed down inside a trunk where you have to lean over to do a dead lift to get her out and likely very slippery.

It is less risky to just drive the one vehicle away without transferring a body given that where the car travelled and the body disposed of was dark and deserted. Necessity governed the rest once the body was taken care of. The perk apparently had to retrieve his own car or return to that location for some reason so could just park Sonia's car anywhere close by. A fast dropoff lessening chances of being seen and also lessening chances of identifying the type of car he got in. Selling a car afterwards to avoid dna detection doesn't help if the Police are on to you, it would be a big clue they would go looking for. Registration and serial numbers are on all.

If the perp transferred Sonia's body and vehicles that soon after the crime, he is a way different type person than the other indicators have led us to believe. How would he know the Police weren't on the way over after the scream? It would not be prudent organized or logical to stay in the vicinity any longer than necessary right then under the circumstance driving Sonia's car with her body in the trunk even if he had wished to switch vehicles. Priority one was removing the body from the scene as evidenced, all else including the car falls under secondary clean up procedures imo.

A panicked but organized first timer fits imo.. Someone Sonia knows who had reason to fear his dna would be found or someone with his dna on record. ( there has to be a reason for removal of the body in the first place) The latter did not transpire so whats left is likely someone Sonia knew. Fit of passion panic type scenario fits. Maybe even unplanned.. No professionalism logic or organization at first imo.. and I believe that's how the Police described the crime scene. Amateurish.. Emotion was in play initially, not logic.

The perp seemed pannicked when he left the complex. His main priority there was removing the body, otherwise he would have just left on his own right then without her.  Sonia's car was a secondary item used for fast expedient transport to get the body away from the crime scene.  He wanted to get her away and fast. The scream may have caused him to believe the arrival of security was imminent. Screeching tires..Two blocks away in one direction is a road leading to a dark and deserted area. (where Sonia's body was found) The other direction leads towards businesses and traffic and bars and all nite restaurants etc.. If panic was in play, I doubt he attempted to switch the body over to another vehicle that close to the complex so soon after the scream. It is likely we are looking at a first timer, not an experienced hit man or serial killer. Cold calculation wasn't likely, just panic and emotion. What began with removing the body was a big primary decision in the first place. Finishing that part off first was the prime motivator and fleeing far and fast to a secluded disposal location would be the goal. Under panic, you'd deal with the rest later. Maybe he thought about torching the car or other possibilities but necessity dictated the eventualities.

All things are possible but it should all match, it should all indicate the same thing, the same person, the same behaviour traits throughout. Redbeard once believed intoxication could be an aspect that might have to be looked at where other possibilities could result. If there was an immediate vehicle switch I'd have to side with him on that and bring in intoxication. Problem is, not everything matches that way either. So although it doesn't matter or play that big a role which came first in the big picture, the vehicle switch or body disposal, I'd stick with what seems to be the predominant patterns and seek to understand how all the details can fit within that same behavioural pattern. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 08, 2013, 04:09:34 PM
The truth itself must be reasonable - it must hold up to scrutiny and eliminate possibilities.I believe that this  conversation which we ar having is important.

We are assuming that he has his own vehicle at his ready disposal.

What would be reasonable ie: driving  her to the site in her car? - this has merits. - or transferring her body to his own vehicle, and dumping her and continuing on?. - this also has it's merits.

It is reasonable to  transfer her to his car to get out of town.

What isThe risk?

Being seen transferring her from one vehicle to the other by potential late niters?. Lots of blood transfer to his own vehicle. . He had already taken the risk of placing her in her own vehicle once, so one more time may not have made a difference to him This would get him out of town lickety split and on his way home. Distance himself from the town.
or
Keeping her in her own vehicle, dropping her off at the site, and returning her car behind the TAC shop?

The risk? - driving a longer distance with a car which is not yours and has a body in the trunk, and then driving back to O'ville with a blood stained car. Which one is most reasonable of the two?
I would think that time would also be a factor in his mind.

Once again we are assuming that he drove his own vehicle.

 I agree with D1 that disposing of the body was of an immediate and desperate  task ahead of him. Disposing of her body - removing her from her home was of paramount importance to him. her pillow case dropped onto her sidewalk, he did not close the garge doors behind him.  He was in a hurry to remove himself with her from that crime scene as fast as he could.

If he transferred her to his own vehicle, why leave her so close to O'ville?  Why not continue on further and dump her remains somewhere else? -further away from the town? I know that I would if it were me. Example: the murder of the young escort - murdered by hermale room-mate in Toronto, and her body was dumped in Caledon - quite a distance from Toronto right?  He drove all that way to distance himself from her.
So,  if Sonia's killer lived a distance away, why would he not do the same thing - drive further away and leave her in the ditch?- why take the time to carry her (once again carry her) off the roadway and further into reeds and brush out of sight? Just outside of O'ville?

I think that the killer of Sonia was at a disadvantage.  He did not have ready access to his car (if he had one) and had to use hers, and take those risks - bring the car back before daylight, as he had to walk home.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on April 08, 2013, 07:04:04 PM
A couple of possibilities, one, he rode a bike, moped, motorcycle or there was more than one perp.

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 08, 2013, 09:45:49 PM
Lots of good discussions here. I was wondering if there had been suspicious cars or people seen in the area the weekend that Sonia was killed.  Also did any of the neighbours notice a person with Sonia that day/evening  around the townhouse complex or in town?  Someone must have seen something significant.  Could she have met up with someone who was possibly married and convinced her to keep the meeting discreet so she didn't tell friends? So many questions makes this case so complexed.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2013, 10:23:36 PM
Most of Sonia's last day is a bit of a mystery. There is very little to go on and very little new information coming out. Something was going on that afternoon that has never been told. .

This was a good point JB.
Quote
If he transferred her to his own vehicle, why leave her so close to O'ville?  Why not continue on further and dump her remains somewhere else? -further away from the town? I know that I would if it were me.

I believe he had to return to retrieve a vehicle and daylight was a contributing factor in his decision. Otherwise why not just ditch the car elsewhere or even torch it at some other location? Why even risk returning in it if there was any other option? Why even return at all if if you don't have to? I believe he had no way back to retrieve the car he left behind other than to use Sonia's and there was no one he could call upon for a ride under the circumstance. Once the body had been disposed of, the car was a neccessity as there was some pressing need to get back. Daylight I believe determined the timing.

At times like this I am reminded of the story that someone had left the bathroom at Tim Hortons bloodied late that night. Perhaps the perps vehicle had been left parked around there, almost just across the street from where Sonia's vehicle was found. A very short walk.

Either way, it appears the perp had to get back to this same spot for some reason and before daylight preferably. If he had a vehicle parked close by say in a parking lot bordering on the same greenspace as outside Sonia's complex, it would be very easy to slip into the shadows and sneak up to Sonia's back door without being seen at all. His own vehicle need not even have been parked exactly where Sonia's was found. I think it would be prudent not to chance both vehicles being seen together. The perp would have had time to think about stage two the cleanup stage by then and just did what he had to do.  imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 09, 2013, 10:28:17 AM
Two others points I have thought of concerning the car transfer----if the perp was afraid someone had called LE to report the screaming and the car, would he not want to get rid of the car quickly? (so do a quick transfer to his car knowing that LE would be busy with the witness report)  Also if the area where Sonia's car was found is known for late night crime activities, what are the chances someone involved in crime is going to talk with LE?  If shady things happen there often, the car transfer may not seem out of the ordinary and hard to see in a poorly lit area. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 09, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
I think emotion fear and panic took over under the circumstance. You run to an area where you believe it to be safe and less likely to be caught with a body. Priority #1.  That means zero delays for anything. Thats why the FBI behaviour analysts always try to find the first crimes of any budding serial killers they go looking for. Where they leave the first body generally indicates their home turf, their comfort zone. Later when the serial killers become more experienced and more calculating, they branch out and expand on that. They start to scout out areas ahead of time then seek a victim most expedient to that.

We don't see any professionalism here. First timer amateurs especially the act of passion impulse killers revert to a more primitive emotional state more like the SK first crime. Little if any planning is apparent.

So although the killer may have wanted to get rid of both car and body sooner, in the heat of the moment, with possible LE arrival where there is a blood soaked crime scene waiting, putting distance between that is priority one. And note the body has been taken to a very quiet secluded location that seldom sees any traffic or Police patrols. It is located along the quickest exit route from Sonia's on the least travelled roads. Opposite of where Sonia's car was found.

Another point on this is that if the body had been transferred so soon after, there should have been a trail of blood left between vehicles. Of course we aren't being told either way what evidence they have but LE never put out an alert or public request for anyone seeing any other vehicle parked at that same location. No sheets, no blankets, no trail of blood leaving the car, no nothing left behind as far as we know. Coupled with the amount of blood pooled in the trunk and the sloshing pattern from cornering etc likely told LE much more than we know about that. Le likely knows what happened in what order.

If the body was transferred first, the sheets and Sonia's body would pick up more dna and forensic evidence from the second vehicle on top of leaving blood evidence behind. Its not a real smart thing to do. LE would know from that if another vehicle besides Sonia's had been used. 

For me, disposing of the body first and ditching the vehicle second fits best with what we know of all the perps other behaviour traits as well what LE have let out. 

Not much more I can add. Redbeard and others have voiced differing views and thats everyone's prerogative to state their case and their reasons.

At times I think we seem more experienced and calculating in our analysis than the killer would be in real life. Driving around anywhere with a body aside taking the time to tranfer it into your own car in a public place is the last thing anyone would want to do. It's sheer panic time imo !!!   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 09, 2013, 05:51:16 PM
D1-excellent ideas above. The one thing that is puzzling to me, if he was in a panic and wanted to get away fast--why would he take the body at all?  Looking at this crime and comparing it to SK R.W. this looks like an escalation in crime. R.W. did not remove his first victim, but did this as he progressed.  Is this possibly why the FBI was brought in for Sonia's case? Hope there is an arrest soon. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 09, 2013, 07:46:55 PM
He was sloppy.  He left his dna behind, along with bloody bootprints.  He left the pillow case on her front sidewalk, he did not close the garage door behind him. (a neighbour noticed Sonia's garage door open in the am, long before she was discovered missing, and before her car was found later that same day.
Note:  He did close the front door behind him - no neighbour reported seeing her front door open. The closing of the front door would require him to go back up the steps and close it after carrying Sonia to her car.

After placing her in "her spot", and leaving the scene, he remembered her quilt, and must have had to stop the car,  retrieve it from the vehicle,  and toss it, as it was found "further down the road" (wherever that is - days later)

And he left her car behind a business in a small parkette where he must have known it would be found that very same day.

I don't think this was planned entirely, or pre-thought out in any way.  He had to think quickly, after he killed her.
I think his disposal resources were limited , it being time and transportation.- In  his rush to distance himself from his crime, he was still in a "thinking  mode" to some extent ie  closing the front door, choosing his route out of town.
I don't think he realized that it would take days before Sonia and the quilt would be found. He was not thinking that far ahead.  He really didn't try to truly hide everything.  He was in the moment! It was panicky and haphazard.

To my way of thinking, he didn't show any decency to his victim.  He didn't even care enough about her to at least cover her with her quilt before he left her, he had it in the car - no he very coldly tossed the quilt out along his route.

 JB :o
ps: I would not be surprised if has raped a woman/or women.
I am not suggesting this was the case with Sonia, but he has no respect for women - any woman.

LE have called him a cold blooded killer, and I'll buy that.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 09, 2013, 08:44:47 PM
From the last few posts it looks like the perp was in a panic state but clear enough to plan covering up/disposing of evidence.
JB---if the quilt was found farther away from town than Sonia's body would this indicate that the perp had used his car and drove away, maybe using it to clean himself off? If the quilt was found closer to town would this indicate that the perp used Sonia's car to transfer her to the side road area?  The location of the quilt could be a good indicator of which car transfer scenario fits the crime.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 09, 2013, 08:53:48 PM
Yes the location of the quilt would be important to know.  The term used by a woman, was "it was found further down the road" (from Sonia).  I take that to mean on the way back to town. There are hills further up the road from where Sonia was found. So i am taking further down the road to mean on the way back to town.  This could be interpreted in many ways Joojoo.  You are so right - knowing which way would tell us alot.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 09, 2013, 09:34:12 PM
There are differing opinions on why even remove Sonia at all and all have found support in some ways. Generally speaking though, stranger on stranger crimes more often than not leave the victim behind where ever it was that the crime took place. When the perp and the victim are acquainted, you more often find the body being removed. But lots of idea's have been bandied about on that topic. Maybe she didn't die fast enough for the perp to be confident of his escape, maybe he was intending to take her to the hospital, maybe he had other plans for her yet, lots of possibilities were posted some time back, near a dozen I believe. Given what the Police said of the perps familiarity with Sonia's home and him knowing his way around her place, the keys, the vehicle, the disposal area, etc, it seems the perp was more an acquaintance than a stranger. And so that pattern fits here with the removal of the body too.

The road where the sheets and quilt were found leads back to town from either end with one turn to get back onto a main road. I believe the sheets were further out toward the airport end. Plus by then, the perp may have become more calculating once the initial panic subsided and the body was removed.  He did some thing right apparently, he's still on the loose. 

Interesting that there was an acquaintance of Sonia's who lived just one sideroad off from where the body was found and where the bedding was found. Good idea on the bedding location as indicator joojoo but this particular acquaintance is apparently best left out, thats another story..

I think in this perps own mind Sonia was his last shot at a real relationship and he put as much effort as he could into it. Sonia saw the flaws through the facade and wanted out. His true colors came out at the end. She was right about him..

Strange that the FBI becomes involved and this particular acquaintance is exempted from providing a dna sample. Perhaps he is someone's protected agent? 

jmo...

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 09, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Interesting suggestion about the killer considering taking Sonia to the hospital though that might depend on the nature of her injuries to know whether this is a plausible explanation for the hasty exit. Also, the fact that the body was in the trunk would indicate there was no intention at all of going to the hosptial. If there were any regrets about the death and any possibility of being accidental, you would think the first impulse would be to call an ambulance rather than placing Sonia in the trunk. We do have a contradiction in terms here: a panicky though cold-blooded killer. This is what has led some to conjecture it was a youth or first-time murderer. Possibly someone on drugs having a psychotic episode who would not normally kill and has not since.  We have not seen a pattern of similar murders since then in the area, perhaps suggesting that this was someone who either experienced an out of character psychotic episode or else someone who knew Sonia.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 09, 2013, 11:27:32 PM
D1 wonder what it is that makes you think any one was exempt from DNA.  I did not read that any where, did I miss that , or is that an asumption? I believe it entirely possible that it may well have been one of the very first ones done before the LE even when public with the DNA issue.  That would be logical in my mind.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 09, 2013, 11:54:54 PM
I can't take credit for all those ideas L., I'm just parroting a few to show the range of possibilities that have been suggested before to answer why remove Sonia from her home. The stranger psycho should have left her behind according the stats. It is unusual to go to this much trouble to remove a victim especially by a stranger. This was a town house, one of many close together. Very risky behaviour, yet the perp drove away in the victims car and got away. Intoxication has been suggested before but I sort of see that as a means to explain what doesn't seem to fit at first take. Provides a means to ignore patterns and commonalities of behaviour. Opens the field to almost anything, maybe too much. imo.

Psychotic drug induced murders do happen but the perp is usually so disorganized in his behaviour that they are caught quite quickly. This one has eluded Canada's finest as well the FBI. There's more to him than we have given credit. 

A pschopath can be triggered into an angry reaction and then go back to a more normal appearance. No drugs required.. They can drive rationalize and perform quite well. They can bluff most anyone, maybe even the Police or even Sonia's mother. It takes awhile for most people to see through them. I think Sonia did just that. jmo

EWO..The news report says cleared by alternate means. Not dna. Actual copies of the news reports are in the members only section. That is where any more of this portion of the conversation should go to.

joojoo was right in that the location the blankets were discarded could be an indicator of more than we realize. This is just one side of that..one unexplained anomaly that is in the way of any further exploration. All roads do seem to lead to Rome as they say.

I hope that there are people out there still trying through the press and through LE to get concrete answers on this topic. The case grows cold.. Suffice for now.. .   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 10, 2013, 03:26:11 PM
Quote
d1 "Intoxication has been suggested before but I sort of see that as a means to explain what doesn't seem to fit at first take. Provides a means to ignore patterns and commonalities of behaviour. Opens the field to almost anything, maybe too much. imo." unquote.

Very often the profile of the perp changes in a crime, as more information comes in.  The profile given to the public is so broad that it could cover anyone. So far nothing has changed with this one.  Also profiles are not always accurate, it is only one tool used. Good detective and police work is extremely important, good police work at the very beginning is paramount.
Much can be missed. The police spent many resoures in trying to locate her during the initial phase. They can't be everywhere at once.  This was to the killers advantage.

The collection of dna from men was about one year after her murder. The perp could well have moved away, to another province or even another country and be unavailable to give a sample, in either case.

The giving of dna sample is strictly voluntary in this case.  If someone does not wish to give it, they can legally refuse.

Here is the flaw in the logic of voluntarily obtaining dna from any of the 700 men. IMO. If they willingly give it - then by all accounts, logically, they would not be a match.  If they refuse, then they would be investigated as to why.(the perp?)

Some men could refuse on a matter of principal- they would call it an invasion of their democratic rights - and there are such ciitzens out there. So, if say a number of them refuse - time, money and manpower resources could be used to check their backgrounds, etc., to look for evidence that one of them is the killer, when all who refused may well be innocent and the police could come up empty handed. Of course the police is banking on finding the killer in amongst those that refuse. But, as earlier stated, that is not a sure thing either, for the reason listed below:

To legally require someone to give their dna, a court order must be issued, and the evidence of the crime pointing towards a particular person, must be strong and have enough merit to warrant a judge to issue a court order demanding that the person give his dna sample..
So, in this case, the mystery of who murdered Sonia, would have to be nearly solved before a judge would issue an order to obtain his dna
This puts the police at a disadvantage, as they would have to find the guy who would refuse, and link him directly to her murder by additional evidence, such as.
A. strong evidence that he knew the victim
B. strong evidence that he knew the townhouse area.
C. Proof that he was familiar with Caldedon
and that he had reason to cause her harm  And heavens knows what else they would have to include in their report to the judge in order to get that warrant.

Of course, The killer would know all of the above.

The business, of collecting all of these samples is a further detraction -(the more samples taken, the longer it takes - and the longer it takes, memories fade) which ironically could also work to the killers advantage.

And of course, being out of arm's reach would also benefit the killer of Sonia Varaschin. It would eliminate any hassels that he may face from the police  by the asking for a voluntary sample in the first place. :DJB

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 10, 2013, 06:08:01 PM
Thanks JB--
going by your post above it makes me think that the perp may not have been in such a panic. He could very well have moved the body to distract LE from the townhouse crime scene, and hoped that the weather elements would damage evidence of the crime on the sheets and body.  Also by having Sonia's car parked away from her body he has made another distraction away from the location of her body.  This doesn't fit with a young offender or a new offender. It seems to fit more with a diabolical person who has been involved in crime before---maybe not murder but someone seasoned with either covering up crimes or talking/manipulating his way out of situations-and being successful at it.   jmo

Also, it is a bit disheartening that in order to collect DNA the case would need good evidence on the perp to request it. If DNA is the solid evidence in this crime how can the public be sure that there would be enough other  evidence to warrant collection of the perp's DNA .  Wondering if LE should release information regarding if there were any items missing in case someone found something significant but doesn't know it is related to the crime. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on April 10, 2013, 08:44:51 PM
It is possible that the murderer lived in that townhouse complex. Killed her ,got rid of her body with her car. This could explain why he wanted her body moved and why he left the car where he did. He didn't want his trail to lead back to the townhouse complex, so he parked the car and walked back. No trail.    jmo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 11, 2013, 12:51:22 AM
joojoo makes a good point about the likelihood of the killer having other criminal incidents in his background. So how about the police investigate all men within a possible age range in the area who have some criminal record, not just serious crimes, as a starting point. It could be a dead end because we have seen killers come out of nowhere but it could be worth someone's  time.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 11, 2013, 11:00:07 AM
http://www.citynews.ca/2012/08/29/police-confident-they-will-catch-person-responsible-for-sonia-varaschins-murder/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on April 11, 2013, 11:20:41 AM
About this person having a criminal profile, they may not have ever been in trouble before. I say this, because obviously there was no DNA match anywhere found in the investigation.  I don't know if the person knew Sonia, it is hard to say. This could have been a random act of violence, maybe that is why it is so hard to solve this case. It certainly is a mystery. We're almost three years since this has happened. But I do believe someone in that area has knowledge of something that happened that night.  I believe they could be afraid for their own safety and do not want to come forward with the information. Someone does know something about this case, for sure. I would urge anyone that does to contact the police or crime stoppers, because if not, you could be charged with helping to hide evidence of a crime. :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on April 12, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
Thanks JB--
going by your post above it makes me think that the perp may not have been in such a panic. [snip] ...  This doesn't fit with a young offender or a new offender [snip] ....

I couldn't agree more, JooJoo. Using the sheets to leverage removal, using her vehicle to avoid evidence in his own .... These are the signs of someone who thinks with logic after a heinously uncontrolled act. Like the flick of a switch. For my part, I have not understood why taking Sonia's car is considered more of a risk than walking to his own vehicle (or to his home) out in the public evidently covered in blood.  Being on foot means vulnerability if caught on the street; he is protected in the vehicle. I know people have said that it was risky to be driving in a car "covered in blood" but in the pictures we see a smear at the trunk; I'm not sure how, in the dark, that might not just read like dirt. And, again, even if pursued he has the flight of vehicle as a fallback. I don't know if I can assume this is someone who has committed violent crime before or not (although I have my ideas) but the way the vehicle was parked, the lack of more evidence left behind, the clear pattern of thought (to me)  wholly rules out someone drunk or high -- or young -- in this crime. IMO.

Sorry to keep repeating myself.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 12, 2013, 09:40:11 PM
soccer mom your last comment gave me a though. The average joe might think of dragging the body, or pulling or even using a rug to move a heavy object.  Who would think of using a sheet for leverage, why some one in the medical proffession would for sure, wondering if that is a thought to ponder more on
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 12, 2013, 09:52:32 PM
soccermom---I am thinking along the same lines as you.  One thing that does not show panic is the way Sonia's car was parked in the space. The driver would not be a teenager in a panic mode--he would have to be someone collected in his mind and an experienced driver.  We also do not know how much blood was actually on the perp as he could have been in the townhouse a while cleaning up before transporting the body and taken the items used with him so the evidence was not found.  So there may not have been as much risk driving her car if he cleaned up first. I think someone possibly known to Sonia, enraged, and yet methodical after the rage to cover his tracks.  I think they are dealing with a very cold dangerous person with no regard for rules.  imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on April 13, 2013, 06:56:58 AM
eyeswideopen.......I can see your point about using the sheet/bedding for leverage.....people in the medical profession would know that trick for sure. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 13, 2013, 01:12:08 PM
Eyes--that was a good point, also anyone who has taken first aid courses or safety courses involving evacuating people from buildings, or transporting them away from a scene, or a perp who has done this before.  This opens up the possibilities once again. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 13, 2013, 04:19:09 PM
Eyes--that was a good point, also anyone who has taken first aid courses or safety courses involving evacuating people from buildings, or transporting them away from a scene, or a perp who has done this before.  This opens up the possibilities once again. imo

someone who would wear that type of boots, would know the roadways well, and have knowledge of evacuating injured people?
Someone who works in Public Works? or medic?
It was during a heat wave - who would more than likely be wearing these type of boots on a Sunday?
jb
FOUND AN INTERESTING WEB PAGE. People in security, including cops do not always wear issued footwear.
Here is a post:
My winter boots are from Marks Work Wearhouse.  . Submitting the receipt to get reimbursed for the CBSA allotment is apparently impossible...
 the boots I bought have 4 small yellow horizontal lines on the side of the soles (2 on each side). I just take a sharpie and black them out every so often.

I am not suggesting it is a cop, what I am saying is that people in uniform do not always wear standard issued footwear. What I am suggesting is that MWW footwear might be popular, and used, as the above states.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 13, 2013, 06:17:08 PM
Excellent point - expands thoughts on who would wear heavy boots in August. Fireman, policeman, security guard in addition to carpenters, manual labourers etc. Some professions require protective footwear no matter the weather.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on April 13, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
I am not convinced the boots are a great tip.  I know I have a very similar pair of boots also from marks work wear that I use when hiking in the bush and off trail. I am an older woman will a smaller stature and would most likely wear them on a weekend as that is when I am most likely to go hiking.  I know tons and tons of people who wear them all the time, most of these boots are not safety shoes as in steel toed but a good supportive nonslip boot.  jmo of course.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 17, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
LE have/and are working with MWW checking receipts of those who purchased a pair of the same type of boots prior to and after the killing.  I don't recall the number, but it was very high.  So the boots have some significance to the police.

I am wondering if other forensic evidence was left at one of the scenes, example fibres? that would also tie into the killer, which could point le into a specific trade or life-style, that they would include in their profile while tracking down the owner of these boots.  It amazes me, as to the long term keeping of records of MWW ie: customers, to enable police to look at them in the first place. Cash customer?  Sometimes they would ask for an e-mail address from a customer, to send them special offers.  Who could resist, especially if the killer had no idea that the cops would check with MWW at all - and to such a degree.

LE announced on her "last anniversay" that they do have "persons of interest", and are still accepting tips.
Maybe they are looking for a few more pieces of the puzzle, in order to make that long awaited arrest. 

They stressed that this is not a cold case, far from it, they said that they are working with the same intensity now, as they did from the start. 

It is going on 3 years, I would have thought that the solving of Kera Freeland's murder would still not be solved, and and thankfully hers has been solved, yet oddly, with three crime scenes) Sonia's is still outstanding.   

jb

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on April 19, 2013, 08:32:47 PM
Thinking about the boots again---today there were men cutting down trees in the yard next door. They were wearing steel toe work boots.  Our dog started barking at the window and when we looked out there was one of the tree cutters walking through our backyard near our house.  When he was confronted he said he was looking for the hose and was then told he couldn't use it.  I wonder if something similar could have happened to Sonia and this is how the perp first met up with her.  I hope that the condo corporation and LE investigated all work that had been done around the townhouse complex for 6 months prior to Sonia's murder and the workers involved. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on May 13, 2013, 10:07:50 AM
Funny thing about those boots....
I have been following the disappearance of Tim Bosma quite closely. I'm not sure if now I have just become wholly paranoid ever since hearing DM's trailer was parked so tight against the garage it couldn't be opened except by access from the garage, but I am increasingly worried, like some others, about DM's mother.... And now I am feeling anxious about a pic from the twitter account of someone who has been mentioned here and yet who has not been named a POI, but still: 30 pics in, there is a photo of a boot that looks, to me at least, like the type LE has been circulating in relation to Sonia's killer. I know, I know. It's very unlikely there's a relation; it may not be the same boot, or it may be indeed the same boot and the person holding it up is either unaware, or specifically aware, that it is and there is still no connection. There's no snap of the tread, and I know that's key for identification. The hashtags on the twitter site are "freshtodeath" and "freeshit" ....  It's probably nothing. Yet still I feel anxious. I don't want to post the name or initials of the person from  twitter account I located the pic, because he has not been named a POI in TB's case. I'm sure people following his case, though, can figure it out. Again, this may not be meaningful at all.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: missmolly on May 13, 2013, 07:53:38 PM
In addition to what Soccermom said about the boots, with Sonia's case and Bosma...I also noticed in one of the TB posts a reference to George Brown college...Was there not a connection to George Brown college in two Orangeville cases (Sonia's and the Lodder assault)?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on May 13, 2013, 09:37:08 PM
How close to Orangeville did Tim Bosma live?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on May 13, 2013, 09:48:22 PM
Tim was at min two hour drive at lest from Ancaster to orangville
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on May 14, 2013, 05:45:52 AM
Ancaster is where Audrey Gleave was murdered.....and it remains unsolved.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on May 14, 2013, 09:55:40 AM
All very interesting, could be a serial killer in the area. And who is to know it is not DM, all unassuming on the outside, looking like a person with no problems. Was DM married or living with anyone???? Or was he a gay person??? I noticed a comment on a site that mentioned a not so nice word for gays and that is why I thought he was gay. Does anyone know that??? :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on May 15, 2013, 07:00:47 PM
Just a thought--Tim Bosma would live maybe 15 minutes away from A Gleave---and she had a sporty camaro, and Sonia lived within a block of an automotive shop. Could this be a connection for LE to investigate? All are unsolved right now and work boots may have some significance. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on June 03, 2013, 09:29:14 PM
Well here we are in the year of '13.   She was murdered in the day of August 30 or 31,  in the year of 2010!!

Multiple DNA tests from those whom even looked at her website on dating sites.  No proof that she even met any of them have no doubt been taken (via inspecting her hard drive)

Just looking not choosing - in my opinion.  No harm in looking, I say.

The initial promise from law enforcement was that "DNA voluntary recipients  will receive a letter, stating that they are not a match, makes myself and the public wonder if this promise has been fulfilled.

Have these 700 men received their letters?

My lord, do these men not have rights?  Are promises made by LE hard and true?

Why doesn't LE announce to the public,  that such letters have been sent out - as promised -- to show that their word is as "good as gold".???

Not a word from them  (their promise) in that regard.

I wonder what the OPP of Caledon will have to tell the public when it is the 3 year mark of her death to the public - if anything..........

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 01, 2013, 09:23:16 PM
It will be interesting to see if the OPP make any statements as to their progress in solving the murder of Sonia on the "anniversary date of her death".  -- or if the press should even begin to ask questions in that regard. Other more pressing issues are taking up the press's time, I suppose - ie; Toronto politics, Orangeville break-ins, and their speeders.

Eight more weeks (well almost) will tell the story - is this fading from public memory? - do the police require more tips?
will the police perhaps release another significant part of their profile, other than the generic one given to us in the beginning - minus the boots? - or will it be business as usual. Silence.

Yes, I know, that they cannot say too much "when they are deep into an investigation", but perhaps they can't say too much - as they may have poor quality evidence within their suspect pool,  and may never make an arrest.
My reasoning being that they have been working on this dna business for how long? - and still not a hit?

I am thankful for their tenacity, the ability to keep on plugging away, always optimistic that they will turn the corner, and find the killer of Sonia. 

I am concerned that a higher authority may give the orders to "call it quits" and let this sit on the back burner until a good solid tip is given.  Should that ever be the case, I am doubtful the big tip will ever be given.  Not all murders are solved. This just may be one of them.

JB




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on July 01, 2013, 09:36:15 PM
I think that they put Sonia on the back burner a longtime ago.  Makes me loose comfidence the that group of LE , they had three crimes seens surely they had some evidence of some kind.  But nothing, only a photo of several pairs of boots, that are totally common boots. Breaks my heart that more effort was not put into this crime.  JMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on July 02, 2013, 01:02:16 PM
So these unsolved murders are relatively in the same area, not much distance between them. Do they have a profiler to give an idea of what kind of a person could have committed these crimes. Hard to believe that there are not any suspects. Or do you believe the police may have an idea of someone and have them under surveillance, they just haven't got that slam dunk to arrest them. Sometimes the police do that, they act unassuming and are really very vigilant and working on the case quietly. It is a long period of time and no arrests. Everything should be done to keep this case in the limelight on the anniversary of Sonia's death. Maybe they should do a show on Dateline or W/5 or something, get a re-enactment of what they feel happened the night Sonia was murdered. A cold blooded killer is out there and really nobody in the area is safe.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on July 02, 2013, 10:42:01 PM
Hmm well I dont think , in my opinion of course that the police have anything they are sitting on.  I think they were so busy shuffling responsibility and arguing over jurisdiction that they lost anything they may have had , or over looked it. Just my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on July 03, 2013, 07:30:46 AM
I don't think they have much, either.  If they did they wouldn't have had to take DNA samples from over 700 men....in my opinion.  I say the same about the Police in Audrey's murder....they are sure dragging their feet.  They haven't even found the guy that attacked Shelly in Mono...

There is DNA evidence in both Sonia's and Audrey's murders, are they running it through the system?  Are we to believe that the killers of these two women have never been in trouble with the law before or since?  No matches in the system? 

Two killers walking around free...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on July 03, 2013, 09:38:14 AM
Very violent murders. These are way off the track, because they were not domestic assaults or boyfriend or husband assaults, these are crimes of persons who are unidentified. A very scary thing to think about. If I was living in that area, I certainly would be afraid for my safety. People in that area who feel they suspect someone or feel that a person maybe responsible for any of these crimes, or anything suspicious that keeps nagging at you, report it to crime stoppers. Somone came home that night and was not acting in a proper manner. A person in that area knows something and they did not come forward. This could be a married individual, a boyfriend and a partner could feel suspicious of their husband/boyfriend and they did not come forward. I'd say it's someone like that, someone that is right in front of everybody and they don't suspect them of a thing.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 03, 2013, 02:35:33 PM
I sure do agree with Eyes, Jobo and Capeheart. They had three crime scenes in Sonia's case, and yet they have come up with  "We have your dna" - "We have your boot prints" - which is fine - and still no arrest. Two police forces were involved.  Initially it was the Orangeville police, who converged on her car and townhouse - and with little experience went through her home.

Then the OPP of Caledon took over, as that is where her body was found.  Today, the Orangeville involvement, according to the Inspector, is the use of their office facilities.

Still no solving of the  the horrific beating of Shelley a wife and mother in Mono, which, I believe is also under the jurisdiction of the OPP in that area.

Audrey's death, while under the Hamilton police have not made any advancement towards an arrest in her murder.
In my opinion, this is a "cold case". Her home has been sold, her possessions thrown in the dump, and her bank accounts . sale of her home and any other assets worth salvaging, went to the Executor of the estate.  The dogs were adopted out.  There is nothing left to investigate.

An old eccentric woman who met with a terrible death, is quickly forgotten by all who knew her.  There is not a one of them pressing the police for answers.  There is no one to speak out on Audrey's behalf.

Three dangerous individuals on the loose - or perhaps just one??

I think the public would rather forget about it.  They have now settled back into their lives - and back into their safety zone.  This is human nature. Until something similar happens again.

In Sonia" case, I am curious if the letters promised by the police have been sent out to the dna donors letting them know that they are not a match, and  their contribution of dna has been destroyed.

Perhaps the press, might put themselves out, and ask  that simple question to the police.
Now that is a lead question which might be used for the third year since her passing.

After the last bravado of a number of newspapers declared that they would be there for Sonia (last anniversary of her death) and yet they remain silent, not pushing, nor questioning the police as to their progress to date!! 

How silly of me - it is now at present a matter of a city official with perhaps a drug cocaine habit that is drawing them to the trough!![/u]

But my gosh, without some investigative reporting, how are we pinions to know??

This dna collection business,  was to take about two weeks (originally), until law enforcement decided to look into the dating sites -  The dating site connection tip, was given to police by Sonia's brother. This was never mentioned by her bf when cops talked to him. 

It takes good initial ground work by  detectives  from  the beginning.

For starters,  I think they missed the boat, when Pritchard was transferred (the initial lead detective), causing a gap in time before they found a new one. Was it, at that point in time that the brother told police about his sister being on dating sites.  In fact, he too belonged to a site for social gatherings. No harm in any of that, but the new lead detective took off on that premise.

They must be working with some very "stale stuff" by now. Potential "hearing" witnesses, may have moved on -
Those who might have had a tip may have left it behind them and moved away also.

Perhaps the killer of Sonia may have escaped the dna test by moving away a long time ago as well. Well before the dna testing was announced.  The Airport is relatively handy.  He could be anywhere by now.
And most importantly, perhaps her killer NEVER USED A DATING SITE.

JB 



 

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on July 05, 2013, 12:04:56 PM
There are more than a few comments surfacing on various threads lately questioning the veracity of the press in pursuing murder cases.
similar to what JB writes-
Quote
After the last bravado of a number of newspapers declared that they would be there for Sonia (last anniversary of her death) and yet they remain silent, not pushing, nor questioning the police as to their progress to date!!


There is a show, a bluster, an air of competence and dedication shown at first for most all murders but it seems a toothless promise that takes away momentum from any other means of persuit that may have been available at the time while the case was hot and emotions ran high. Canadians have stereotypically been called complacent by other countries. Maybe we are, we just stand by and let this go on with nary a whimper. Our media should be all over this, a near precedent setting DNA gathering with a blanket warrants issued for pretty well any male in the vicinity who wears a size 10. Highly pushing the limits on freedoms and rights to privacy for some 700 men while the victims own bf has been allowed to leave the country exonerated by simple questioning. Process and procedure have been set aside and played fast and loose for some.

The families of most murder victims are so devastated at least initially that they are unable to make effective representation to push for justice. Grief and sadness render many of those closest into silence. Trust in LE to do whatever is necessary as well the media to be their watchdogs during this time of need is the coup de gras... IMO

I don't believe that Sonia's killer is going to be brought to justice any time soon if ever without some special attention from media pushed by family and friends. Three years is the final death nail for cold case status in most instances.
 :( :( :(

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 05, 2013, 04:59:16 PM
The killer, if no permanent  attachments, could be anywhere. Could have fled the province, or could have fled the country.

The only hope  LE may have is that the killer had to stay put. Too many obligations, either through business connections, strong family foundation - wife and kids in school plus job. -( Employment is no longer that  easy to find.) Close down a business?  An astute LE would wonder - Pack up wife and kids? - an astute LE would wonder  specifically if there is any connection to the life of Sonia.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on July 06, 2013, 08:33:13 PM
Just keep checking to see if there is any update on SV case. I have been reading a few books on motive, SK etc.  I am now wondering if the perp is a SK and this was not his first crime as he was focused enough to so far get away with this.  Could he have been in stable relationships and then when things weren't going the way he wanted, he acted out his anger in crimes? If there was a long period between his crimes this could be why the crime doesn't match with other similar crimes. Wondering? jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on July 06, 2013, 09:08:05 PM
I am also wondering the same thing. Also have a feeling that Sonia's, Audrey Gleave's murders  and  Shelley Loder's attack are all somehow connected. jmo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on July 07, 2013, 01:52:55 PM
That possibility has been raised a few times but there doesn't seem to be enough evidence or at least information released to the public to determine that either way. Its more the general location and the handling of all these cases that keeps this alive imo. The FBI being called in and no resolution for any despite DNA availability. The DNA should confirm whether they are looking for the same guy or not. It is strange that they have apparently tested so many poi's for Sonia yet have tested but one for Audrey.

Police usually narrow the field as much as possible by way of procedure, investigating and eliminating all the usual and most likely types that match a particular crime and zeroing in on those who can't be eliminated so easily. Procedure has fallen apart in regard at least one of the more likely and usual poi's in Sonia's case but that too may be a red herring. We have no way of knowing whats up with any of that. The media has not pressed for answers and seems content to let this slip. If there were a SK involved, does LE have an obligation to tell the public? I don't know. Perhaps that is another question media should be asking this anniversary?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on July 07, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
Ron- I wonder if there is a connection too as nothing seems to be going forward, at least publicly in these cases.
Even if LE would release possible vehicles sighted in the areas-this could raise someone's suspicion, or missing objects.
 
D1- It would be great if the media did a story to update the three cases to keep them in the public's eye and maybe jolt someone's memory. It is sad how quickly people become less interested as time moves along and since these crimes are a bit removed from each other, the updates don't reach both areas.  Hoping they have DNA from all three,  but seems so far LE has no match to an individual.
With regard to a SK--I think it is a balancing act LE do. They don't want to scare the public, and they don't want to give recognition to the SK provoking him into more crimes.  I guess the FBI with our LE made a call as to how this should proceed and we must trust their expertise in this. jmo  Hopefully a turning point tip comes in soon.   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on July 07, 2013, 11:14:08 PM
Trust is where it all goes bad here imo. Once the bf was allowed to leave the country without being tested, justification for testing the next 700 in the concentric circle of familiarity was made a joke. imo  The results speak for themselves.

LE has dna from both Sonia and Audrey, they know whether a serial is at work or not. They have been chastised in other areas for not telling the public if and when they know that to be the case. This killer remains on the loose despite the expertise directed at these cases. Media should revisit. Once the public forgets, the chances for justice wain.

It seems that public pressure is most effective when organized and implimented early on. Once the media moves along, you cannot buy that sort of advertising exposure and public support ever again. Sad to see, sad to say. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on July 08, 2013, 09:22:19 AM
.... Once the bf was allowed to leave the country without being tested .....

D1, do we know for certain the bf was never tested? They could have collected a sample early even before they had evidence confirmed at the scene. I remember he was ruled out early as a suspect, but that doesn't mean he wasn't asked for dna if even to distinguish his from unfamiliar dna at the scene. I thought we didn't have corroboration either way?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on July 08, 2013, 01:25:39 PM
Good question for media to ask. BF was cleared early on by way of routine questioning. Cleared means he was freed from suspicion, free to go. No one was being requested to give a dna sample back then. One can speculate that the bf must have been asked to provide a sample but all we have is confirmation that he was cleared by other means and then left the country before any dna warrants were applied for or issued. Media should ask and confirm, any additional males in the area being asked for a dna sample should ask whether the bf was tested. Lawyers, civil rights groups etc should ask.

Adherence to procedure while closing all loop holes is generally what catches criminals. Sure there are new investigators now, but the originals had to be replaced and were responsible for clearing those first questioned. Maybe Police have their hands tied now? Even Prime Minister Harper is currently defending his subordinates to the point it appears he is lying to the public.

Media could ask and could confirm... Anyone in the area able to speak to a media rep?

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 08, 2013, 04:58:00 PM
I have a lot of questions that I would hope that MEDIA would ask LAW ENFORCEMENT on her anniversary coming up this August.

First of all - the obvious question

Are you finished testing the men on your list?

Next - have you sent the negative  results to the men via  letter absolving them in any participation in the death of Sonia Varaschin, as Law Enforcement originally promised those men who stepped up to the plate? 

-Next question - If not?  why not?

Next - If so, has their DNA been destroyed - AS PROMISED.  If not - why Not?

Next - was the bf cleared by way of DNA - if not? - why not? What is good enough for approximately 700 men, should also include him ---  Many members of the public wonder about that!!

Next - have all of the  alibi's been doubly checked?

Next - have you considered gathering another team of investigators to go back to square one, and going through
all  of the evidence with fresh eyes?

If not, why do you think that it is not necessary to do so?

Next- why do you feel confident in the profile?  Profile's are not always correct.  (the rate for accuracy - the press could check it out, but it is very small - I think it is around 30%) 

Next - could you (Le) share with us something new that we have not been told about the killer, something that may bring  more tips?

If not - Why not? (I think I already know the answer to this)  But I would ask it anyway
End of Questions to Law Enforcement
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These  questions are simple and straightforward that  the astute  general population, would/ and are asking. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next question - Is the press that not astute compared to the general public?  Is the general public brighter than the
press? 
I doubt it !!

So next question and this is addressed to the Press.

Why have you not asked these obvious  questions in the past?
And if not - why not?

So what type of questions are you, as THE PRESS,  prepared to ask this August of 2013?


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on July 09, 2013, 01:24:23 PM
When the press goes out of their way to state they will be following up and not forgetting any particular crime, they have an obligation to do a little more than just the usual; imo they have not.

Quote
Quote
After the last bravado of a number of newspapers declared that they would be there for Sonia (last anniversary of her death) and yet they remain silent, not pushing, nor questioning the police as to their progress to date!!

Why say such things and then do so little as time passes? People put their trust in the media when they make such claims. Other potential actions get put aside. We can all wait for an update from LE without any media assistance if thats all the media promises amount to. I hope some one in the media reads here about Sonia and considers all the comments and questions that are being raised.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 24, 2013, 01:48:02 AM
What a strange situation with the murder of Sonia Varaschin.

Well respected by so very many, not only with her nursing colleagues, but those of whom she devoted her time to in volunteer work, and then we must include the many devoted friends who cherished her companionship while living.

Who was compelled to take Sonia's life?  Why?  What did she do to you, if anything, that brought you to do this?"
What was your reason?? 

You know, there is always a reason in anything that we human's  do.
What was yours? There had to be a reason.
We human's don't do things without a reason.  We just don't!!  Our actions must make sense to us on a deeply personal level.
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: supernatural on August 23, 2013, 11:37:49 PM
I keep going back to this case from time to time hoping there is some new information on her case but nothing is released.
My parents lived in nearbly shelburne when this happened and I was always curious about outcome.

So much has already been covered in these threads about the case so its hard to add anything worth while....Going over the facts given out in the media and my feelings on the case one would think....

-She needed to get up early to start her new job so she would likely be going to bed between 10-11pm.(good to know what clothing she was found in..ie pajamas.)
-She had either invited someone over or someone came over unexpectedly that she knew and invited in.(No sign of forced entry)
-Likely a male companion with an outdoor hobby or who works outdoors according to shoe prints and the place in country to dump body.  To me this case seems like a boyfriend or ex as it seems to be a crime of passion with lots of blood(knife missing from kitchen?) and how irrationally they acted to hide/move body does not seem thought out like a serial killer or a planned murderer would likely do.
-Perhaps someone she had a fling with.....The person was drinking at a downtown pub and gets intoxicated and wanted to get more action with her then the intoxicated person left there vehicle downtown near where her vehicle was found.  She invites him in out of friendliness to pass out or what ever.  He wants sex...she turns him down and a struggle ensues around bedroom.  He realizes whats he has done and irrationally tries to hide the evidence.  Wraps he up in sheets, and takes her car back downtown to his vehicle moves her body so he can dump body on the way home and go straight home for an alibi in his vehicle.  He could live anywhere but figures thats a good spot to dump he body.  How he did not get spotted doing any of this is mainly luck and likely the early morning hours he chose to do it.

If there was DNA it would have be checked out on known criminals so is not likely the perp is career criminal.  Unfortuneatly, we are only told about so much evidence in the case and we are left to come up with our own thoughts on the case with what comes out in media.

It would be a huge relief on the person who did this to just turn themselves in and restore the disrupted balance left by her death. 
 

RIP Sonia knowing you are not forgotten.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on August 24, 2013, 12:14:46 AM
Supernatural --
good to see some movement on Sonia's thread!
there's another option, even if it might seem farfetched in some of its permutations  -- and it also implies (for me, like for you Super) someone familiar to her (ex-bf, current bf, friend, or trusted neighbour):  Sonia may not have willingly or even unwillingly let someone in at the door. What if someone had stolen a key from Sonia -- that is, what if he had been given a key by Sonia at one time and made a copy -- and entered by stealth and waited for her? Whoever committed this heinous crime is capable of that kind of invasive action; I don't even have to suppose the murder was pre-meditated, but that this person wanted to exercise control over her even in the IDEA of access. What if that person was waiting for her  (Russell Williams-style) for her to come home, to retire, and then attacked her as she slept? I keep repeating at various points on this thread that when Sonia was reported missing, LE never advertised that the public should keep an eye out for someone with unexplained bruising or  scratches or.... That suggests to me that there was evidence of a terrible and bloody crime (as we know) but not of a struggle. Otherwise: what use would it be to LE to hold back that info? It could have been crucial for tips to have that. I believe Sonia would have fought for her life -- unless either the first blow was unexpected and wholly incapacitating (which is of course possible) or, as I speculate here, Sonia was attacked as she slept.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on August 24, 2013, 04:52:56 AM
I will always remember what the Police Officer said when asked by reporters about this crime...he said "you are assuming the door was locked".....that leads me to believe it was NOT locked.   (that is on here way back at the beginning of the thread somewhere).
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: supernatural on August 24, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
True about assuming the door was locked...even one of the neighbours admitted to not locking the door all the time.   Hard to believe that a single female living alone would not lock there doors all the time though.  I know when my wife is alone she has her  OCD about checking all doors before bed.

As for someone waiting inside its hard to guess...but I think they would have disposed of her in a much more organized fashion if they had planned to do something to her but its a possibility with what we know....If in fact the persons intent was to kill, getting rid of her vehicle and any possible evidence left by it would have been pre meditated and not just leaving it in an ally  in downtown orangeville for everyone to find.

I would be really surprised if the local LE haven't narrowed down there search to a few suspects by now and I really would like to know what her boyfriends alibi was at the time and as to why the police ruled him out so early in investigation.

The 3rd year anniversary of Sonia's murder is coming up and it would be nice to see some progress...

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on August 24, 2013, 04:48:09 PM
Agreed, supernatural, jobo, soccermom.....we are coming upon the third anniversary of Sonia's disappearance and subsequent death. Somewhere someone knows something....maybe a son, a husband, a brother or a friend who was acting strangely around that time and still is. Someone who either avoids the area around Sonia's Spring Street home, the alley behind Greenhawk or refuses to drive along Beech Grove Road.  Someone who has acted strangely seeing police reports on television or hearing them on the radio.
It's been three years, there were three different crime scenes, someone must know something! We need justice served for Sonia and her family.
Deb R
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 24, 2013, 05:13:48 PM
Sonia had an on again and off again relationship with her bf. Now whether the simple fact that they had such a relationship may or may not fall into the equation here.

I think it was someone that she knew.  And knew that he was coming to see her - thus the door was left unlocked.   Sonia did lock her door, and her mother said that perhaps she forgot to lock the back door after she (Sonia) let the cat out for the nite, when she Sonia ran to the phone to answer it.

This woman had to be at work in Missasauga, around 8:00 or 8:30 a.m.  She must have been a night hawk - because her last call was taken by her from her bf  at 11:30 pm, according to the papers.

Calls of arguing and distress came from her townhouse around 3:00 a.m, so neighbours said,  upon recall .  Yet no one called the cops.  It was a firm opinion by neighbours that Sonia was never a problem at all.

It is difficult to surmise or reason - that a stalker or peeping tom would invade her home.
How would he know that her door was unlocked - at the opportune time. He would have to check that sliding glass patio door every nite for months.
These types of killers, to my mind do not have the patience.  They will pick on someone else.
Now patio doors locked - are not visible from the outside.  One has to try it to discover that by pulling the sliding glass doors to enter.


He entered from the back sliding glass doors -, which enters into the kitchen.  No key is involved in this type of door.

So I am thinking the opposite as to reported reasons for leaving the sliding glass doors unlocked to let the cat out and then forget to lock it.

I think she was expecting someone, and left her sliding glass back doors un- locked.

It is the arguing issue as reported by neighbours that makes me wonder.

By strangers, or a person she hardly knew there would be a lot of screaming. Pleading perhaps, but   No arguing.

If the killer worked in horse barns, wearing those boots, one would think that there would be micro-scoptic pieces of horsehair or manure, or straw left in those bloody boot prints.
I mention that, because her car was left behind the TAC shop. (horses)

Perhaps these boots were worn Just For Fun and Style, or he worked in a very clean Warehouse, or just everyday common soil within the general area.

Just my own way of thinking.
   

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on August 24, 2013, 07:07:20 PM

Calls of arguing and distress came from her townhouse around 3:00 a.m, so neighbours said,  upon recall . 
....

He entered from the back sliding glass doors -, which enters into the kitchen.  No key is involved in this type of door.

rsbm

JB -- do you have a link for any of the above? I recollect that the most immediate neighbour to Sonia (sharing a wall with her TH) didn't hear anything; another said later that screaming and tires squeeling where heard, although I always wondered if that was also bad reporting (screaming/squeeling). Can anyone confirm arguing? And where does that bolded info in the quote above come from? I thought we had no idea only speculation re: how the perp(s) entered. Has something changed?
Just wanting to make sure I haven't missed anything.\sm
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 24, 2013, 07:23:42 PM
I will not  be searching through back links"  I have been there many times, and found the information, and re-posted  it, be it,  from  any word from the cops as well as newspapers.  Sigh - sorry. :'(
Yes, the next door neighbour sharing a wall did not hear anything - I have stated that on many posts.
But the bedroom walls are not shared , and sound follows forward.  - note:  Sonias casement bedroom window open in photos. 

It is all on a very cumbersome site, I will admit.  There are layers and layers of information on here.
Very confusing in finding it, I will admit.

Perhaps you may find some of it - and that is some of it - at the very early stage of her murder on Sonia 1 thread.  But keep in mind that this was in the very early stages, and perhaps as new things were added by cops, and newspapers, it should have been added to Sonia 1.



JB :)

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on August 24, 2013, 07:42:51 PM
thanks, JB. I've looked -- at http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/08/31/concern-mounts-for-missing-woman/ there's a neighbour who says he was awakened by "tires squealing … and yelling" as if the two are simultaneous. It's hard to know what to make of that. Who would be doing the yelling, and at whom -- if, as the quote at least suggests, squealing tires antecedes the yelling? You'd think an argument would be a big deal to LE.... Not sure why we haven't heard more about that.  It would be good for press to ask LE on the "anniversary" if the neighbour's report has been assessed as a coincident but non-related event, or if LE thinks this intimates Sonia knew her attacker. Anyway -- not a lot of info I can find on that report. Is anyone here going to a presser IF LE is going to have one this year? It would be awesome if we could get some Qs in; on the upshot, otherwise: we can't be the only ones wanting LE to be responsive. Let's see some assertive, accountable reporting this year from the journos!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on August 24, 2013, 09:05:28 PM
I know it is an arduous task to back up our important assertions with a link to support them. But this is the only means of preventing any misinformation, due to our memory lapses, or any speculation that morphs into being factual. These links are necessary when posting any relevant information, and especially after a length of time from the info being initially posted.  I feel that we must abide with providing links to back up our "facts".  Don't take this personally JB--we all do it. This one time, you got questioned, and that`s how it should work.

Regarding the yelling and squealing of tires at 3 am--I have to trust that LE took this seriously, and investigated it in depth.  But I find it disturbing that it happened the night Sonia was killed, and more relevant considering that she had complained about noise from a neighbour before this. Obviously the person left and was angry enough to squeal his tires. Killers don't tend to draw that kind of attention. But did he come back for revenge.  And did she know him?  Or was she already dead.

JB brought up an interesting point about Sonia's mother thinking that Sonia might have left her door unlocked when she let her cat out.  Didn't this same scenario occur when one of Russell William's victims let her cat out, or in, and he was outside of her house and saw her do this? Jessica Lloyd became his intended victim when he spotted her exercising inside her house. We don't know if Sonia was a victim of a sadistic sexual killer or if she was ever stalked. The importance to LE of a lack of forced entry is always based on the odds--most times, the victim knew the killer and allowed him entry.

BTW--soccermom--I didn't see any mention of the squealing tires report in the link from the National Post. We know that this is fact.


modified to add the last two paragraphs.


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on August 25, 2013, 01:40:06 AM
hi Have Faith --
Thanks. The reference to tires squealing -- and to yelling -- by  a neighbour is actually in the link from the National Post above -- it's just not easy to see: " 'I was sleeping and pretty much woke up to car tires squealing … and yelling, Mr. Lundy recalled."
It really is hard to keep track of all the info -- I've made a lot of comments, myself, from memory because like JB suggests above it's exhausting to go over this material from so long ago and which we already covered. I just try to remind myself that it's also easy to mis-re-member, which I might do a lot :)
/sm

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on August 25, 2013, 12:52:50 PM
Catching up on this case--it is still disturbing that a suspect has not been arrested after almost three years.  I think that supernatural may have described the scenario as it seems the perp was planning as he was going. If she had an on/off relationship with her boyfriend could she have had other relationships during the off times and with whom? I am not sure it isn't a SK though, as it could be someone who flies off the handle in situations where they don't get their own way so it isn't a planned crime per se.

I also was wondering if the yelling that was heard was the perp cursing to himself as he was in a panic after the murder???

 Hoping more information is released to help solve this for Sonia's family's sake and soon.

 
I keep going back to this case from time to time hoping there is some new information on her case but nothing is released.
My parents lived in nearbly shelburne when this happened and I was always curious about outcome.

So much has already been covered in these threads about the case so its hard to add anything worth while....Going over the facts given out in the media and my feelings on the case one would think....

-She needed to get up early to start her new job so she would likely be going to bed between 10-11pm.(good to know what clothing she was found in..ie pajamas.)
-She had either invited someone over or someone came over unexpectedly that she knew and invited in.(No sign of forced entry)
-Likely a male companion with an outdoor hobby or who works outdoors according to shoe prints and the place in country to dump body.  To me this case seems like a boyfriend or ex as it seems to be a crime of passion with lots of blood(knife missing from kitchen?) and how irrationally they acted to hide/move body does not seem thought out like a serial killer or a planned murderer would likely do.
-Perhaps someone she had a fling with.....The person was drinking at a downtown pub and gets intoxicated and wanted to get more action with her then the intoxicated person left there vehicle downtown near where her vehicle was found.  She invites him in out of friendliness to pass out or what ever.  He wants sex...she turns him down and a struggle ensues around bedroom.  He realizes whats he has done and irrationally tries to hide the evidence.  Wraps he up in sheets, and takes her car back downtown to his vehicle moves her body so he can dump body on the way home and go straight home for an alibi in his vehicle.  He could live anywhere but figures thats a good spot to dump he body.  How he did not get spotted doing any of this is mainly luck and likely the early morning hours he chose to do it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on August 25, 2013, 04:28:04 PM
I think Sonias case was bungled right from the start.  With her first being missing I think cops and family were trouping through the house destroying evidence not realizing she was in fact dead yet.  I think also there may have been a resistance of le forces, local le not liking opp taking over etc.  After nearly three years now looks like they are not actively working on her case a lot any more.  Perhaps new eyes would find so slips in the investigation in my opinion. The killer is probably feeling quite smug that they got away with it  by now.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: supernatural on August 25, 2013, 05:38:12 PM
I am beginning to think this too eyeswideopen.  3 crime scenes to gather evidence and proof to solve this crime and still nothing.  I would really like to know if looking at her past on the dating sites would help if she had not been using them since she was with her on and off again bf, for a year and a half, according to one of the media reports i read.

Joojoo -  IMO witnesses like that tend to be unreliable...Im not convinced about the noises people heard are not out of ordinary for condos like that and asking someone to remember something from a certain time could easily get it confused with another night especially when they have no reason to remember something at that given moment they hear it.
As for the SK aspect...not likely unless they were just passing through as there have been no other similar murders in the general area.

A reporter needs to start asking the investigators involved in this case more questions again so as to release more about the possible suspect.  Not doing so makes one think they are not doing anything.  Questions like....

-Do you have any more substantial leads? 
-has the online dating aspect come up with any leads or are they ruling that out?
-Random DNA gathering - how long does it take to process samples and are they able to determine from the samples they have that a close relative of the sample could be involved?
If someone did notice a change in demeanor of there brother/kids/relative whatever one would think that they should give a DNA sample and tell the reason to the LE why they are giving it.  IMO this is likely how this case is going to get solved since there must have been to many investigative errors from the start.

Everything we read or hear through media just allows us to come up with our own theories-which are just conjectures because there are too many pieces in this case we dont know about.  I understand that is why some of us are here is for sleuth/problem solving aspect.  Police always have to withhold certain information so to be certain they dont tip off the killer.

Its good that we keep this case going.  I can tell it has bothered alot of people(including me obviously) with the amount of attention it receives on here.
But with three different crime scenes and nothing?  The killer must be a genius or the investigators are not good enough to solve it.  They are going to have to do something to get this investigation going again and soon.   >:(

Supernatural  :)


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on August 25, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
Thanks for your reply supernatural---I do agree that it looks like things got jumbled from the start probably because LE didn't have the whole picture to start.  If the perp did the three scenes as a planned crime he is very diabolical and probably experienced with crimes.  When I was referring to possibly being a SK I wasn't sure what he would be called if he did crimes but it was because he lost control and his temper. Does anyone know if a person commits multiple crimes from rages over a period of time---is this considered a SK?  Hoping LE come up with some answers this August and this crime is solved.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 25, 2013, 06:44:05 PM
Thank you all. Everything that eyes and others have been recently posting, I have said a long time ago on Sonia's thread. 

Yes, reporters should have the right questions, and expect answers from the police.

Yes, law enforcement needs to tell the public as to any progress.

Yes, as I said from the early start that these cops were novices (Orangeville) and tramped throughout everything, possibly destroying crucial evidence.

Exasperating?  Frankly - I do not think that this word even holds up.

I look forward to an announcement from the OPP that they have solved this case - when that will be?
God only knows. ::)

These dna tests starting from her life and going in concentric cirlcles - 700 and of them and possibly counting, (they would not say as to the exact  number that they have in mind.) 

Orangeville is turning into  a bedroom community, the same thing as Barrie did a good number of years ago.   Many people from TO make their lives in Orangeville.

I can see doing dna testing for all males within a small community, such as a small town or farm community or tiny communities - but an area such as Orangeville, which can be so porous, to my mind is different.  It is turning into  a bedroom community for TO and other areas.  Figure out the logistics.

It could have been any man whom she met from her past as well... Name unknown and no communication via social media.

If the only evidence that they come with is the size of boots, and possibly one of two makes, they were not sure on that, and dna evidence..... with three crime scenes - there is something wrong with that.

The fact that she was at one point looking at dating sites - took the police off into another direction.
Her girly friends knew that she was looking on dating sites - and said - that as far as they knew, Sonia never dated any of them.

The cops stated however, that Sonia gave too much  personal information of herself that may have caused her to be in a vulnerable position.

One thing they feel confident in - is that -

He had ties to Orangeville,   either through family or business.

He was familiar with Orangeville and the surrounding area, as well as  with the victim along with her townhouse;

This statement was given on her last "anniversary of her demise".

So that narrows it down somewhat.

Have a good day my posting friends, and if you live in the East, please rush to your computer and give us an update on her 3rd year, if there is any update announced by LE, -

- or a decent in depth article, written by a curious reporter who did a little bit of investigative reporting  rather than printing the usual platitudes.

This thread has been going on all of this time.  Sure, there is a lull in it - as there are with many other threads.  However the names of these victims are still up there - and hopefully they will remain, until they are Solved. :)

Perhaps Sonia's can be solved.  Keeping my fingers crossed on that!!


JB :)

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 25, 2013, 11:27:29 PM
re: Supernatural-
Quote
btw....Anyone where her boyfriend lived at the time?  I know he went back to Ireland after all this happened.

He lived just around the corner from where Sonia's body was found. He was cleared through routine questioning by the first investigators. He left the country before dna testing began..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on August 26, 2013, 08:36:16 PM
It would be quite expected that LE would have extracted DNA testing from the boyfriend before he left the country in order to clear him though of course we are not privy to that information and can only hope it was done.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 26, 2013, 10:21:18 PM
A worthwhile question to ask. Confirmation may be difficult but could be the difference between an unknown killer still on the loose miraculously evading the dragnet or Police bungling/ ineptitude/ nepotism/ favoutitism/ cronyism or whatever else may prompt an investigator to clear someone under such circumstance so quickly.

added- No doubt there was some sort of an alibi involved to explain but as has often been found, a perp becomes known to the Police almost immediately after the crime and alibis don't always hold up when pushed. Especially when dna is available. So just for the formality if nothing else, was the bf tested? Otherwise, Sonia is on the fast track to becoming a cold case imo. The Police and the press have gone silent. Seems they have exhausted all their other leads and ideas. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on August 27, 2013, 11:34:12 AM
D1--I agree that the bf should have been tested for DNA just so this would not come back to influence the case.  If he wasn't than the UNSUB could use this in court to help with his defence if he went to trial.

There is a reporter in Hamilton---Jon Wells who did a great report on the AG case which still is not solved either.  Maybe he should be contacted to do one on Sonia and a follow up on AG.
imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 27, 2013, 12:11:58 PM
That is a very good point joojoo. There are multiple potential problems for LE if they did not test due procedural irregularities. That may pose a stumbling block to getting any answers. But if a reporter would broach the subject, and the legalities were explained, there may still be a way. I can see LE wanting to wash their hands of the whole affair due financial expenditure that would be required for an international warrant and having to explain their early actions. He has left the country likely to never return. He could have excuses for his dna being found at the scene. Someone else's problem now?

I think your idea on that reporter is a great way to go joojoo. I personally haven't had much success in getting return calls from others but please carry on. The bf provides huge pressure on LE to do more, explain more, provide more. either way... whatever the answer. Sonia will slip right off the map after this anniversary without some unusual intervention IMO.. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Mom on August 28, 2013, 07:20:09 AM
OPP offers $50,000 reward for tips in Sonia Varaschin murder
Posted By: James Moore james.moore@bellmedia.ca · 8/28/2013 8:54:00 AM

Ontario Provincial Police hope your tips can warm up a shocking murder case that's gone cold.

Authorities are offering a $50,000 reward for any information that leads to an arrest and conviction in the 2010 killing of 42-year old Sonia Varaschin.

She was reported missing to the Orangeville Police Service on August 30, 2010, after she did not show up for work.

Her vehicle was found abandoned behind a store in Orangeville.

Varaschin's body was discovered a few days later in the Beech Grove Sideroad area of Caledon.

"The OPP and the OPS are as actively engaged in this investigation, and we are as committed to finding Sonia Varaschin's killer today as we were when it began in 2010. We are determined to bring justice to Sonia and her family" said OPP Criminal Investigation Branch Detective Inspector Tracy Dobbin.

"We are confident that offering this reward may rekindle someone's memory regarding this case to come forward with a crucial piece of information that will make that difference.  No tip is too trivial no matter how small or insignificant you may think it is.  You could hold the key that makes the difference", she added.

This is a developing story - check back for updates

http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10582417
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on August 28, 2013, 11:16:33 AM
Just saw a link to this article posted on facebook....so happy that they are finally admitting it is a cold case and the $50,000 reward should shake up some peoples' memories.....thinking that justice may finally be served for Sonia and her family!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on August 28, 2013, 11:19:31 AM
People in the Caledon/Orangeville area will all be happy to hear this....there is still a dark cloud hanging over everything we do.  The other day, at noon hour,  I drove past a woman jogging down Beech Grove Side Road and I was about to stop her and tell her it is unsafe to do so......as she was alone....but I thought she might think I'm being paranoid. Many women in this area are still nervous and afraid and exercise extra caution when going out alone at night.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 28, 2013, 12:34:24 PM
Interesting choice of words-
Quote
We are confident that offering this reward may rekindle someone's memory


There are rewards out all over the country asking for information in many a cold case. Like Dana Bradley, 30 years plus waiting. Its just the final nail that confirms they have exhausted all the leads they wish to persue. Its not necessarily a good sign. The family and public will dutifully wait indefinitely now with hopes and beliefs the reward will eventually pay dividends. The press is not likely to ask any of the hard questions, after all, the Police are "confident" that this will pay off if the course is stayed.

700 plus DNA tests have apparently not produced a match. Rarely do we see this sort of action taken and expenditure authorized without there being a very good chance for success. How could the perp evade such a dragnet? He was supposedly very familiar with the area both around Sonia's home and where her body was dropped off. Seems that he should be on someones radar.. Seems he slipped through a hole in the net. That hole needs be inspected and fixed imo.

If the reward is what makes a difference, it is more likely going to happen sooner than later imo but I wouldn't hold my breath. After all seems not much has changed.
opp
Quote
we are as committed to finding Sonia Varaschin's killer today as we were when it began in 2010.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 28, 2013, 04:06:08 PM
Here is another excellent article that also has a reasonable explanation from the cops. Looks like the cops are looking for a crucial piece of evidence. 
iT DOESN'T SOUND TO ME THAT THE COPS CONSIDER THIS TO BE A COLD CASE YET!!
If this articles is correct.
http://o.canada.com/2013/08/28/sonia-varaschin-murder-police-offer-50000-reward-to-find-killer/

These are the following excerpts taken from it.


Published: August 28, 2013, 12:39 pm

Updated: 5 hours ago

TORONTO – It’s been three years since someone killed Sonia Varaschin, left her Ontario home stained with blood and dumped her body in a wooded area.

While police have continually been chasing leads and sifting through evidence, just who was responsible for the 42-year-old’s gruesome murder remains a mystery.

Now, in an attempt to trigger a break in the case, the provincial police is offering a $50,000 reward to anyone with information that leads to the apprehension of her killer.

“The public needs to know that the case continues, that it’s actively being investigated and that we continue to look for their assistance,” Ontario Provincial Police Det.-Insp Tracy Dobbin told The Canadian Press.

“We’re obviously hoping that (the reward) is going to allow someone to come forward and provide us with information that will lead to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible.”

Later, to narrow their list of suspects, police also asked for voluntary DNA samples from men who either knew Varaschin or came in contact with her before she died.

That sort of collaboration with the public remains an extremely important part of an investigation that has never waned in its intensity, said Dobbin, the lead case manager on Varaschin’s file.

“There’s still a dedicated team of investigators that are assigned solely to this investigation. That hasn’t changed,” she said.

“Every day we’re closer, because we have a better grip on the information, and we’re dealing with new information.”

In the past three years, police have interviewed a number of witnesses, carried out background investigations on persons of interest and collected DNA samples from hundreds of people.

The case has also involved input from the FBI’s Behavioural Analysis Unit, as well as experts from the RCMP and certain municipal police forces.

Investigators continue to receive tips on the case on a weekly basis and hope anyone with information or suspicions linked to Varaschin’s killing will contact them, despite the time that has lapsed since her death, said Dobbin.

And while it may appear that the search for Varaschin’s killer is moving slowly, a long investigation allows police to build an extremely solid case, she said.
“For the public it seems like an inordinate amount of time. But from the investigators’ perspective, this time has allowed us to be very thorough with processing the information that has come through the investigation,” Dobbin explained.------------------------

Her friend says
"“She didn’t have any high risk behaviours. There was no drugs involved, no night clubbing or staying out late and going to many places without telling anybody,” she said. “She didn’t have anyone that was a threat to her that she told me about…So it’s a mystery to all of us.”
.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 28, 2013, 07:03:18 PM
This article is really  interesting to me. Lots of intriguing inferences in this one.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/08/27/toronto-orangeville-caledon-sonia-varaschin.html


Posted: Aug 28, 2013 6:03 AM ET
 
Last Updated: Aug 28, 2013 8:34 PM ET
 Nearly three years after the murder of Orangeville, Ont., nurse Sonia Varaschin, police are hoping a new $50,000 reward being offered by the province could lead to a break in the case and a possible arrest.

Varaschin was first reported missing in late August of 2010. Her body was found Sept. 5 in a wooded area not far from her home, about 80 kilometres northwest of Toronto.

A white cross still marks the spot where Varaschin's remains were found next to an unpaved road in Caledon, Ont.

Wayne Archer lives nearby and said he didn't hear from police about the 42-year-old woman's death until last year.

"They came along here and they got DNA from all of us — all the males," said Archer.

In total, police have taken hundreds of voluntary DNA samples from men since Varaschin was killed.

Yet police appear no closer to making an arrest in the case despite an imprint of the alleged killer's boot, and forensic evidence collected at Varaschin's townhouse as well as in her white Toyota Corolla — abandoned near the town hall.
A memorial marks the spot were Sonia Varaschin's body was found in 2010. Police are hoping a new $50,000 reward for information will lead to a break in the case. Ivy Cuervo/CBCA memorial marks the spot were Sonia Varaschin's body was found in 2010. Police are hoping a new $50,000 reward for information will lead to a break in the case. Ivy Cuervo/CBC

OPP Det. Insp. Tracy Dobbin has worked on the homicide investigation from the beginning and has recently taken over as case manager.

Dobbin wouldn't comment on the DNA samples already collected but said "once we work through that information and analyze that information, it certainly gets us closer.

"The province of Ontario is offering a $50,000 reward for information in relation to this investigation," said Dobbin, optimistic about the active investigation that's being handled by a sizeable team.

A few months after Varaschin died, police met with criminal profilers in a bid to exchange theories about the person responsible for the killing.

The profilers believed the suspect was familiar with the Orangeville and Caledon areas and may have missed work or other appointments as a result of what happened. It was also suggested that the suspect may have left the area to avoid being caught.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 28, 2013, 10:19:11 PM
Yes lots of inferences that can read into it and assumptions that can be made in multiple ways.

One quick one- dna is conclusive either it matches or it doesn't. so??? How does this get you closer? A dna warrant by way of process of elimination? They are collecting smples from males who live nearby where Sonia was found...

Quote
Dobbin wouldn't comment on the DNA samples already collected but said "once we work through that information and analyze that information, it certainly gets us closer.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on August 28, 2013, 10:27:51 PM
There is a relatively small population in that area and I don't blame the police for attempting a process of elimination re hundreds of dna tests. At least they are doing something to eliminate suspects. A cash reward probably won't hurt, but I am not convinced that cash prizes have led to many people turning in suspects --correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on August 29, 2013, 08:45:49 AM
Leon, I'm not totally convinced of that. Large rewards have been posted in Nova Scotia, up to 150,000.00 and it did not bring anyone forward to solve the crimes. So it's hard to know if someone will tell the information or come forward. :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 29, 2013, 10:25:31 AM
From the latest articles, I believe the Police know exactly who committed the murder. The 700 dna tests just make it appear they don't. The dna tests have more to do with other considerations than testing for viable suspects imo. The results would have all come back by now. They are testing every male who lived around where Sonia's body was found, even the property owners who found her body and called it in. We know there was at least one nearby resident who knew Sonia but moved away before testing began. Process of elimination may justify a warrant for the holdouts who refused to be tested. Who all that includes? The silence on the subject may be telling.

Its not a nice process for anyone to go through no matter from what side. Sonia's parents are distraught and the lack of any information is killing them. The public feels unsafe and scared to go out after dark, the silence doesn't help that either. If the Police know who it is and there is still a viscous killer on the loose in that area, is not time and more information released of extreme importance? That is unless they know he has moved away..

So the Police claim they can't release any more info so as not to jeopardize the case, so instead everyone lives in fear for years and years. All local males get dragged in to have their dna taken and then just silence? Three years now looking for what? The call for more info is too broad and generic to do any good by soliciting info from the general public who may have no idea if what they saw was important or not. Its only applicable to one or two people in particular with inside knowledge who the Police likely allready know. Maybe someone who has provided a false alibi for some suspect or or? The reward could have and likely was offered privately prior this. Its looking more like a p.r. gimmick than anything else imo. 

If the Police know who they need more info on, they need be more specific what and where it is they seek. If it is the untested man from the neighborhood where Sonia' body was found, the man the Police originally cleared three years ago and let leave the country; is all this testing and time being taken now in effort to undo an error that they themselves caused years earlier? Or is this just the latest delay to never have to address that issue? Look what everyone is being put through..

From the latest article-

Quote
“I think the safety of everybody is shaken.”

Police have said the person responsible for the crime likely knew Varaschin and the local area. But Bojic continues to be baffled by the case.

“She didn’t have any high risk behaviours. There was no drugs involved, no night clubbing or staying out late and going to many places without telling anybody,” she said. “She didn’t have anyone that was a threat to her that she told me about…So it’s a mystery to all of us.”

Meanwhile, Varaschin’s parents, although aware that police continue to work on their daughter’s file, have been finding it hard to deal with the lack of public information, said Bojic.

“They are disturbed in a way, that there is no news whatsoever about her case,” she said. “It’s just really hard for them simply to not know.”


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2013, 11:31:04 AM
This is a video worth watching.  This is an oldy - December of 2010.

Look to the left and click on FBI profiler Cliff Van Zam.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/12/16/opp-varaschin-investigation653.html

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
At last - here is a newspaper that has sat down and asked questions to the Lead Inspector -

Thank you National Post -

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/28/50000-reward-offered-in-mysterious-slaying-of-orangeville-nurse-sonia-varaschin/

$50,000 reward offered in mysterious slaying of Orangeville nurse Sonia Varaschin

Megan O'Toole | 13/08/28 | Last Updated: 13/08/29 8:39 AM ET
More from Megan O'Toole | @megan_otoole
.
Sonia Varaschin, a 42-year-old nurse from Orangeville, Ont, whose body was found in September 2010.

OPPSonia Varaschin, a 42-year-old nurse from Orangeville, Ont, whose body was found in September 2010. .
Three years after the mysterious slaying of Orangeville nurse Sonia Varaschin, Ontario Provincial Police on Wednesday announced a $50,000 reward for information in the case. Ms. Varaschin, 42, was reported missing on Aug. 30, 2010, after failing to show up for work; her body was recovered a week later in a rural area outside Caledon. The National Post‘s Megan O’Toole spoke with OPP Det. Insp. Tracy Dobbin, the major case manager, about the status of the investigation.

Q It’s been three years. Why offer a reward now?

A It’s twofold. It serves as a reminder to the public that the case is still being actively investigated. Second to that, it’s a reminder to the public that we continue to require their assistance and that we depend on that assistance to help us with the investigation.
.
Q How is the case coming along?

A Homicide investigations are very complex and they take time, and sometimes that’s difficult to understand for the public. There’s a huge volume of information that comes in, both self-generated from within the investigation and then from the public. This time has been used to put pieces together in a thorough manner.

Q What ever came from the voluntary DNA samples police requested from residents back in 2011?

A The DNA canvass actually continues. That phase of the investigation was broken down into separate phases, and so we are working our way through those phases. Again, the public’s co-operation with that particular piece of the investigation has been extremely helpful.

Q It was reported that something like 600 people have come forward to give DNA samples.

A We’re certainly into the hundreds. I’m not going to speak to numbers; it’s not the number that’s important, it’s the public’s assistance.

Q Has that helped narrow the field? What is the picture looking like in terms of suspects?

A I can’t talk about persons of interest or suspects obviously, but with time comes our ability to sort of streamline the investigation, so we’re headed in the right direction. Every day we’re one day closer to bringing the person responsible for Sonia’s death to accountability.

Q Do police believe Ms. Varaschin knew her killer?

A There was a profile released to the media previously that suggests the killer was familiar with Sonia, her home and the surrounding area.

Q What about the public-safety aspect? Have police found any links between this case and other unsolved murders?

A Those things are always in the forefront of our mind and there are avenues in place to make sure those checks and balances occur. We have conferred on different cases with different investigators, but at present it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Q After three years, does the likelihood of finding the killer decrease?

A Some people would say the more time goes on, the harder it is; some people would say the more time goes on, the more you’re able to thoroughly look at the information and thoroughly process the information and allow circumstances to change. Maybe you had people who weren’t willing to talk at the time of the investigation who, with some time passed, are now willing to talk. I’m using hypotheticals here, but I think there are arguments for both sides.

Q How is Ms. Varaschin’s family coping with the renewed public focus on this case?

A As you can imagine, this is a very difficult time of the year for them. It is a reminder of what’s happened; an arrest has not been made.

*This interview has been edited for length.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on August 29, 2013, 01:52:34 PM
In my opinion, the Police need to go to the Hospital and take DNA samples from any of the males that worked with Sonia.  I wonder if they did.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 30, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
Who really knows what they are up to. A lot of this is the same sort of talk you find from LE in any cold case, the rest of the details seems to change depending on whos reporting..

If as it seems they have been concentrating on poi who fit in on all points... knowing Sonia, her home and the area where her body was found, that is likely a far shallower pool to deal with than just including everyone she may have come in contact with.

from the latest national post article-

Quote
  I can’t talk about persons of interest or suspects obviously, but with time comes our ability to sort of streamline the investigation, so we’re headed in the right direction. Every day we’re one day closer to bringing the person responsible for Sonia’s death to accountability. 


Same words you will find when Christine Jessops dna was entered into the national databank... waiting for a match... any day now... just wait.. Murdered in 1981.. no match to date.. but any day now..

That statement would also encompass any answer regarding the bf as well. I read that as; he was not tested. Confirmation would be easy if he were.. If he were not tested, any number of other potentially viable poi may not have been tested either.. If he were not tested, why even test any others? Confidence in the integrity of the procedure and faith in general dwindles without answers.. imo

Its the last sentence in the article that likely contained the important stuff..
Quote
*This interview has been edited for length.

Nice job managing and keeping the public on the sidelines.

Sammy Yatim got more public support and action than Sonia.. Guess you have to pull out your penis on a bus and wave a knife around to generate attention in this country.
Quote
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=6920.0

Anniversary reporting is a joke imo.. Generic bs..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 30, 2013, 07:41:19 PM
To quote from National Post;

Q After three years, does the likelihood of finding the killer decrease?

A Some people would say the more time goes on, the harder it is; some people would say the more time goes on, the more you’re able to thoroughly look at the information and thoroughly process the information and allow circumstances to change. Maybe you had people who weren’t willing to talk at the time of the investigation who, with some time passed, are now willing to talk. I’m using hypotheticals here, but I think there are arguments for both sides.unquote;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The homicide Inspector in our City, in regards to homicide in general, said that we return to previous people who were interviewed, as very often relationships change and people are willing to talk.


In this case, perhaps a person who offered an alibi either as a favour, or out of necessity may be in a position to talk , especially if the perp moved out of the area, ---- and $50,000 may prod them forward to talk.

Somewhere in one of the most recent articles posted, Det. Inspector Tracy Dobbin said that it is important to build a solid case. 

Now the following is conjecture on my part;  if the person has left the region to avoid detection, then I am thinking that le would have to build a very solid reason to obtain a search warrant to obtain the dna from that individual - because it certainly would not be given voluntarily.

  They have their ways of tracking people down, and in fact should they already have an individual (who has peaked their interest, they may already know where he lives - wherever that may be). However it is through public cooperation and tips that may string some of the answers that they already have - into a solid case, or the $50,000 reward money may be the incentive to the right person who knows or is darn sure who did it.

Frankly, I don't know what to think - but she made it perfectly clear that this case is fully active. It is not a Cold Case.
That is comforting to a good degree at least, to me.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on August 31, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
Everyone takes away different things from news articles. Some find a female officer in charge of a murder investigation to be more comforting. I don't care either way but had considered Inspector Tracy could be male, as in Dick Tracy.

As far as -
 
Quote
A Some people would say the more time goes on, the harder it is; some people would say the more time goes on, the more you’re able to thoroughly look at the information and thoroughly process the information and allow circumstances to change. Maybe you had people who weren’t willing to talk at the time of the investigation who, with some time passed, are now willing to talk. I’m using hypothetical here, but I think there are arguments for both sides
.

Hypothetical? Statistics say the odds diminish radically as time progresses.

If you have a pretty good idea who the murderer was, and you have DNA evidence, you don't need paid informants, reward seekers, rats etc, they just weaken a case. DNA is conclusive, use it to full effect IMO.. If you seek new information, it is waay easier once a perp and his vehicle are identified. Prior that, how does the public have a clue what could even be important? How many vehicles did you see over the course of the day? If one was shown and broadcast you may recall, oh yea I saw that one turning up that dirt road or or? Offering a reward for info so much later on in this manner  may have some benefit but not in the traditional sense. AMBIGUOUS HYPOTHETICAL B.S FOR P.R. PURPOSES DOES NO GOOD. You have to be specific to get specific information back.

The DNA testing is apparently ongoing or is it? The number of tests is not being confirmed but seems it could be far less than previously advertised. Maybe its just a few who were tested who then squawked, complained, posted and blogged away to make it look like testing was pervasive and all encompassing. Those testing numbers make it seem the Police haven't a clue whom they seek. If true, the prospects for resolution do not improve with time.

Hypothetically speaking, we know of at least one good candidate for testing who seems to have evaded the net. Police keep hinting the perp may have moved. Moving away is not supposed to be a get out of jail free card. Jurisdictional issues are supposed to be a thing of the past in modern countries. Perhaps they are putting a case together but.. Hypothetically speaking, if and when the Police say this person or that person were cleared of suspicion, while they quietly investigate behind the persons back; the Police cannot in all good faith then allow that person to just leave the country without saying anything. They knew they had DNA evidence, he could have been stopped right then and tested had they applied for a warrant. 

So whats this all about now and how does it fix what happened back then? It appears too little too late. And does not address why he was cleared and just allowed to leave in the first place. .  Are the real issues even being discussed anywhere or have we all been sidetracked while the case grows cold? Talk is cheap, we hear this same stuff in most every case. LE feels it is not the publics right to know what politics or legalities are involved. The damage done should it be known they bungled originally may be of consideration. Some prefer to just trust and wait, yet, without dealing with the real issues there may never be any resolution.

Some may find solice and comfort in the Inspectors words, I hear an empty hollow ringing evoking past memories of Christine Jessop, Audrey Gleave, and the many others where DNA still awaits finding the killer.

I'd like to just hold the poi down, pull a few nose hairs, test him and worry about the rest later. Murder trumps that much in the way of individual rights IMO. If you match, you better have a real good explanation or go to jail. Keep him away from the rest of the women and children. Warn everyone. If the poi DNA don't match, they are publicly exonerated, cleared beyond doubt and everyone knows you are a good person, safe to date or whatever. Whats the matter with that? Better than everyone just saying nothing either way. I'd chose door number two if I were an innocent POI. I'd keep quiet if I were guilty.

all jmo.. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on August 31, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
Inspector Dobbin is female, I have met her before and she struck me as a really sincere hard working lady. I knew she was on the police force but did not know what position she held. I don't know why, but I feel confident that since she is in charge of the investigation, some wheels will start turning towards justice for Sonia.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on September 01, 2013, 12:22:27 AM
Maybe she will get through the politics and legalities if she has the intent. Maybe an alibi witness will recant and bite for $50,000. We will see. The public has been placated for another year anyway and there is not likely to be any public outcry now.

Added, if it is an alibi witness that needs to recant before action can follow, I will have to presume this predated the dna testing phase. No one was supposed to be able to evade the dna test by way of alibi.

Don't misinterpret, it is "policy" not the integrity of individual members that is being questioned. Whether what occured was standard at the time for the situation, or if something unusual outside of standard police protocal occured? Dependant the answer, things would likely have to be persued in a different manner. Both the media and the public ( and apparently the family) have been kept isolated from any information or from having any input on the subject.

You first have to recognize and address an issue in order to affect policy if and when that is justified. Otherwise things will stay the same and Lord knows there are enough unsolved murders of women in that area, many pending dna matching, to turn a blind eye to the visible loopholes in the system. If one can walk through, how many others?
jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: supernatural on September 01, 2013, 07:34:44 PM
Nice to see activity on Sonias thread.  Also positive that a journalist is trying to keep this case active in the media.  Unfortuneatly, nothing new from the interview.  I agree D1 this was just PR bs this anniversary and posting award doesn't make me feel any better about this getting solved. 

I have a good feeling who has done this crime and think others on this site do too, and they do not have that persons DNA and keep saying they have ruled that person out for whatever reason.(Alibi??)  Which is why imo they are perhaps trying to influence someone with the reward money.   

Joojoo-not sure what the definition of a serial killer is but i just think its someone who has killed 3 or more at different times.

What is the reason the LE does not release some information on this crime?  Like to hear some peoples idea of why releasing more information will help with the investigation especially if it seems at a stand still.

My geuss?
They feel that the information they have is not substantial?
They just do not think the public can help them any more with the investigation.
They have a good idea who has done it and are withholding that information until they corner the perp?

Anyhow,  here is to hoping we do not go in circles on this threads as to whodunnit.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on September 01, 2013, 11:18:53 PM
Good start on the reasons superN. I would imagine its a combination of all the above, add in attorneys and the potential perp possibly being cleared by some sort of alibi and it would be tough to ask the public for much in the way of specifics now.

Added- Back at the time, it would have been a lot easier to do if a DNA warrant had been applied for then. That in itself is advertising and would justify asking for more info on a specific vehicle or even the potential perp himself. By the time the police knew they had dna to work with, it was too late for some of the actions that could have been taken.

When exactly a potential perp may have left in relation to what the Police knew and when about the availability of dna may be a problem area. If they had knowledge of dna availability but did not act on it to obtain a warrant at the time, and just gave free rein for a potential poi to leave, there are potential problems that the Police would not likely want known. Can that be undone now without even more troubling questions arising? In reality if it were a perp who moved away maybe to another country, it is in the best interests of Police to never address it and leave it to the next country to deal with. No court expenditures, just a little pr cost each year. No questions of bungling or or?

Intrigued with what you say about the reporter supern.
Quote
Also positive that a journalist is trying to keep this case active in the media.


What makes you think that? It would be tough to do a follow up story given what was last said without new info coming from Police. But if any were interested-

Information like- has any application ever been made for any dna warrant for any poi who have left the country? Pretty simple non specific question for the Police to answer. Unless they haven't done so or can't for some reason and or aren't planning to. Seems no one including Sonia's family is being allowed in on that. Depending the answer, there would be multiple avenues to persue from there. Government lawyers, politicians, media reps on international law could all be brought to bear, if we only knew, maybe we could help the process.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: supernatural on September 02, 2013, 04:40:38 PM
That makes sense D1.  Thanks for giving an answer to the question.

About the journalist....Well its better than no coverage at all even though nothing new about the case was said. 

Well those would be good questions to ask D1...
"Information like- has any application ever been made for any dna warrant for any poi who have left the country? Pretty simple non specific question for the Police to answer. Unless they haven't done so or can't for some reason and or aren't planning to. Seems no one including Sonia's family is being allowed in on that. Depending the answer, there would be multiple avenues to persue from there. Government lawyers, politicians, media reps on international law could all be brought to bear, if we only knew, maybe we could help the process. "

That interview seems more pr related, maybe the investigator even called for the interview.
Those are well thought out questions and maybe the reporter did not even do there homework, who knows?
 :-\
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on September 02, 2013, 08:34:50 PM
This site comes up near the top of most search engines on this topic but much of the particulars were only mentioned in the members only section. I did email the reporters who had reported previous but never received an answer. I know they know.

So my own conjecture is that they asked, I believe they are not allowed to report on that. When they say-
Quote
*This interview has been edited for length.

It could mean much more. When they say-
 
Quote
Maybe you had people who weren't willing to talk at the time of the investigation who, with some time passed, are now willing to talk. I'm using hypothetical here, but I think there are arguments for both sides

"Hypothetically" may be an actual response to that question. Legally LE could not answer the specific question nor media report the answer. Both LE and media are bound by law until an arrest is made.

Will it ever come to fruition now? DNA trumps alibi, there is no reason to be stopped by that excuse imo. There are other unknown complications at play here imo. Goes to who cleared who and why in the first place. Not likely to ever be answered either by the look of things.

If Police now have to come at it from another angle due the actions of the initial investigators, this may explain what they are up to. Much like what JB writes in post 546 above.

Quote
Somewhere in one of the most recent articles posted, Det. Inspector Tracy Dobbin said that it is important to build a solid case. 

Now the following is conjecture on my part;  if the person has left the region to avoid detection, then I am thinking that le would have to build a very solid reason to obtain a search warrant to obtain the dna from that individual - because it certainly would not be given voluntarily.

  They have their ways of tracking people down, and in fact should they already have an individual (who has peaked their interest, they may already know where he lives - wherever that may be). However it is through public cooperation and tips that may string some of the answers that they already have - into a solid case, or the $50,000 reward money may be the incentive to the right person who knows or is darn sure who did it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on September 03, 2013, 12:13:37 PM

Although DNA is conclusive, it doesn't prove anything except that the person was in Sonia's house, whether it be semen (eg. they had sex) or fingerprints.  I think LE would also have to unearth a plausible motive for the crime, and prove that a suspect had the opportunity and time to do it.  Without a confession, it comes down to disproving an alibi, which may be helped along with the reward offering.

Although finding a bf's DNA in Sonia's house would not be deemed unusual, finding his blood at the scene would be much harder to explain.  Even so, LE would have to break his alibi.  IMO, they would not have continued with the ensuing volunteer DNA collections, if they had a bf's blood evidence.  As I have said before, I think the bf was immediately swabbed for a DNA sample, so I do think they have his profile.

As far as the media not reporting on any further questions/answers about the bf, I feel that this is such a glaring omission, that there must be a good reason for it.  LE can play tricky though, so it is hard to really guess what, if any, motive is behind this lack of full reporting.


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on September 03, 2013, 11:39:33 PM
hf-
Quote
As I have said before, I think the bf was immediately swabbed for a DNA sample, so I do think they have his profile.

All that was reported was that he was cleared by "routine questioning" early on. Prior to knowldge of dna availablity, prior to testing. Testing was voluntary.

All that was being asked for was confirmation of testing. Nothing from LE or media since. Everyone can read into and interpret that as they wish, but the fact remains, all we have been told is that he was cleared by routine questioning. Its not a hard question to answer. Reason they won't answer or report on that? I can think of one. This anniversary was long enough time for that question to go unanswered imo given the crime remains unsolved and testing of near every other male in the vicinity has not born fruit.

The reward seems geared towards undoing an alibi. It is really only one person we know of who appears to have been cleared by alibi alone and not by dna testing. If anyone else was as viable, and refused testing but still resided inside the country, a warrant would be applied for imo. No one else has as much excuse for his dna being found at the scene as this one and no one else would require an alibi to be exposed as badly as he in order to proceed to charges.

More fuel for the fire imo-
hf-
Quote
IMO, they would not have continued with the ensuing volunteer DNA collections, if they had a bf's blood evidence.

A simple question begging a simple answer would cut through it all... Was he dna tested or not? If the question wasn't answered on the 3rd anniversary, will it ever be or is this it? Only time will tell now but it doesn't look good. Why wait til the anniversary date of the third year to offer the reward? The writing may be on the wall.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on September 09, 2013, 09:25:07 PM
Revisiting some stuff from the early days from September 2010 after Sonia was found on Beech Grove Road.....specifically the Nor-Peel Motel at the boundaries of Caledon/Orangeville. There was a suicide at this motel two days after Sonia's body was discovered. I drove by and saw the police cars that day. This needs to be reinvestigated, I have been told that there is a connection (perhaps an accomplice) to this suicide and Sonia's case. I have always felt this is connected somehow. The police came out pretty quickly saying it was not connected.
Here's the article:
 ‘Foul play’ seen in nurse’s disappearance
By WES KELLER Freelance Reporter

Missing person Sonia Varaschin Missing person Sonia Varaschin The week-long search for Sonia Varaschin, 42, of Orangeville came to a tragic end late Tuesday when a body found in Caledon Sunday was confirmed to be that of the missing nurse.

Police are now treating the woman's disappearance as a homicide.

In the meantime, both Caledon OPP and Orangeville Police Servicces have confirmed that a suicide at the Norpeel Motel last Thursday was in no way connected with Ms. Varaschin's killing. We will have a complete story in our Thursday edition.

Orangeville Police Service and the OPP’s Criminal Investigation Branch are continuing their search for a respected Orangeville nurse who was reported missing when she didn’t arrive at her workplace Monday, and are asking the public to be on the lookout for “anything out of place,” including items of clothing or body parts.

The police have asked that the public not touch such items, but to alert the Orangeville Police Service hotline.

At a news conference Wednesday afternoon, OPP Constable Peter Leon confirmed that foul play is suspected in the disappearance overnight Sunday of Sonia Varaschin, 42, of Spring Street, a registered nurse who was employed at Southlake Regional Health Centre in Newmarket until about a month ago.

A source at Southlake confirmed that Ms. Varaschin had worked there until recently. “She left here about a month ago to pursue other work.”

Her blood-spattered Toyota

Her blood-spattered Toyota Corolla was discovered Monday by the alley at the east side of the town hall, reportedly with its front doors and truck open. A news release said blood was also found in her apartment, and a television newscast said blood was found on the handle of her townhouse entrance door.

Const. Leon said there are no suspects in the disappearance. However, a video surveillance tape from the town hall has revealed that a passenger van passed through the alleyway at 3:55 a.m. Monday. He is hoping the driver of the van will come forward as he or she may have seen Ms. Varaschin’s Toyota.

The constable was reluctant to answer any specific questions, saying the investigation is ongoing and “no stone will be left unturned.”

Police refused to say whether there were signs of forced entry to the townhouse or whether an alleged boyfriend had come forward.

Alexandra Park behind the town hall and a wide area near the town hall were taped off Tuesday with at least four police officers ensuring that no one crossed the line, as a police helicopters and possibly a media one cruised overhead.

At the scene, officers responded to the media with a simple “I don’t know.” One officer said he had been called from his off-duty day to attend at the town hall, and that was the extent of his information.

By Wednesday, the investigation appeared to shift entirely to Unit 21, 5 Spring St., where two police officers were stationed on the street and the area was taped off. There was a command trailer and two cruisers at the scene, and one officer indicated the investigation was continuing inside.

At the Courthouse Tuesday morning, no one was talking. But there was an unsubstantiated report that the police were also searching for a male friend of Ms. Varaschin. The source was not aware of whether the male was suspected of anything, or simply sought for information. Ms. for information. Ms. Varaschin was single with no children.

No. 5 Spring St. is a 31-unit townhouse complex constructed as a cul-de-sac. Spring St. is a secluded dead-end street off Amanda Street. Early Wednesday, no one was visible on any part of the complex, and a police officer said people were already leaving for work when he arrived on duty at 6 a.m. There were no neighbourhood responses to telephone calls from this newspaper.

At the police station Wednesday, the parking lot was virtually filled with media vehicles of all types.

Orangeville Police Chief Joe Tomei said he had spoken to a media scrum on Tuesday. When questioned about the investigation, he hadn’t much to offer Wednesday but said he was about to issue another news release.

Toronto papers quoted neighbour Diane Bowering as saying Ms. Varaschin works as a nurse and leads a relatively quiet life.

“I didn’t see her very often but the kids did. All the kids used to play down at the bottom of the hill and she used to give them candy and stuff like that,” she told The Sun.

The Sun quoted her as saying some neighbours had heard “noises” coming from the house just before 3 a.m. Monday.

“Some neighbours flatly refused comment,” the Sun said, quoting Ms. Bowering as saying, “Some of them heard screams and tires squealing.”

Mark Richards of the OPP Emergency Response Team is heading the police investigation, which is a joint effort of the OPP and Orangeville Police Service involving the use of a heatsensing helicopter and dogs.

Anyone with information is asked to call the police hot line at 519-941- 2522 ext. 2211 or Crime Stoppers.

In asking the public to be on the lookout for “anything out of place,” police said they should call police without touching it.

Reporters were given a CD with picture of the Ford or Dodge van..

The police were not holding out hope that they would find her alive. Chief Tomei, who said the matter is believed to be a “random incident,” added that the search “will continue until we find her.”
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on September 11, 2013, 10:12:39 AM
I remember reading about the suicide soon after Sonia'a murder.....I placate myself by thinking that the first thing the Police should have done is compare the Victim's DNA with their evidence from Sonia's murder.

A side note:   I just read of a young man (20) from Orangeville found murdered (stabbed and dismembered) in a hotel in London....another 20 year old male from Orangeville charged.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on September 11, 2013, 07:39:19 PM
I heard about the motel suicide from someone who heard unofficially and that there was a connection.
I read about the 20 year old from Orangeville in the local paper. The Orangeville area is a lovely place to live, but, unfortunately, sometimes events happen which make people wonder....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on September 11, 2013, 09:28:09 PM
Always causes suspicion with coincidences like this. Makes one wonder what it was over or if suicide was really what happened?

Even early on, suspicions were being directed..
Quote
Police refused to say whether there were signs of forced entry to the townhouse or whether an alleged boyfriend had come forward.

we now know, no sign of forced entry..

Quote
At the Courthouse Tuesday morning, no one was talking. But there was an unsubstantiated report that the police were also searching for a male friend of Ms. Varaschin. The source was not aware of whether the male was suspected of anything, or simply sought for information.

Monday morning, hmmmm who could that be?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 29, 2013, 12:55:05 PM
quote D1

"Monday morning, hmmmm who could that be?"

He was interviewed on the Tuesday, along with the fellow who driving the Ford (who was caught on camera) Turns out the driver of the Ford was a paper delivery carrier.

BF cleared on Tuesday after interview. Police Chief announced that it was probably random.
BF left the country sometime after the funeral.

Note:  Forensics did not arrive at her condo until Wednesday.  Two days had elapsed.

jb

and;

http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news-story/4052414-sonia-varaschin-s-mother-not-hopeful-reward-will-help-find-killer/

Sonia Varaschin’s mother isn’t hopeful a $50,000 reward from the OPP will help bring the long search for her daughter’s killer to an end.

OPP offer $50,000 reward in Sonia... Anniversary yields no answers...
“It should have been done a long time ago,” said Michele Varaschin about the reward announced Wednesday, just a couple days before the three-year anniversary of her daughter’s disappearance.

A lot has changed since then, Michele continued. People have moved and memories have faded.
“As a matter of fact, it would surprise me,” she said about whether the reward would bring any new information to light. “Maybe if they had done it right at the beginning it would have had a better chance.”
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 29, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Here is an article in the Orangeville Ciitzen Sept 9, 2010.
http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2010-09-09/Columns/In_my_Opinion.html

Last week must have been one of the worst in the history of Dufferin County.
 It began with the abduction of Sonia Varaschin at some time overnight Sunday, a deed so horrific that it cast Orangeville in at least the national limelight.

Then there was the death of a young Orangeville man on Highway 400; a reported suicide at the Norpeel motel; and finally the death of a Shelburne teen in a single-vehicle collision on the Second Line of Amaranth.

Perhaps the week should serve as a reminder that we in Dufferin are not immune to crimes of violence, roadway fatalities and self-inflicted death.

We have had other reminders. I have covered at least seven murder trials since returning from Alberta in 1989, probably more.

(For the police chiefs’ and my Facebook detractors, only two of those involved firearms. One of those was ruled self defence and the other was manslaughter.)

Apart from those, there have been serious crimes of violence that have not come to trial, including a recent murder-suicide.

Apart from last week, there were two Orangeville murders within about a week of each other in about 2002. One of those, perpetrated by two teenagers and an adult, was so horrific that the details of the occurrence were too gory to publish in this newspaper. In the other one, a distraught husband killed his wife by dragging her through the Wal-Mart parking lot under his van. She had been at Family Transition Place but foolishly had met him at what she obviously must have felt would be a safe public place.

Not all crimes I viewed were of a violent nature. There was the trusted woman, a former bank employee, who bilked her friends out of more than $600,000. There was a woman at about the same time who was convicted on multiple counts of fraud, and who cost a friend of mine at least $30,000.


Beyond that, there are numerous acts of assault that we never hear about; and thefts; and vandalism; and what-haveyou.

We are no longer the “holier than thou” rural community we might have been in the past. Or have we ever been? A glance at century-old newspapers from Orangeville and Shelburne might paint a different picture.

Which brings me to a point.

There is a world of difference between the news releases I get from Orangeville Police Services and Dufferin OPP and from the information on the court dockets.

In their defence, I have to say that both of those services appear to be doing a creditable job of solving crime – but their lack of complete information might be lulling the public into a false sense of security.

I get almost daily releases – sometimes multiple – from Nottawasaga OPP. Colleague Dan Pelton tells me he gets similar from Grey County.

It got worse last week when Central Division OPP handled the releases in the disappearance of Sonia Varaschin from her blood-spattered Orangeville townhouse and the finding of her blood-soaked car beside the town hall,

It took several days for the OPP to acknowledge that Sonia had been the victim of foul play which, in my lexicon, can be any act of violence.

Even then, the OPP (not the local detachment) said there had been a random act. But the media officer would not say whether there had been forced entry to Sonia’s home.

Finally, he admitted what any observer would have known to be the truth: that the act had been carried out by someone familiar with the town, and likely known to Sonia – or Sonia was known to him.

A “random act.” Think about that one. Such a description could have only the predictable result of scaring the bejabbers out of the public; raising the fear of,

who’s next.”

All that said, I appreciate the need for investigators to throw the criminals off track by making it appear they are headed in the wrong direction.

I am not a stranger to investigations – but that was a long time ago. My training was by an RCMP officer who had served in counter-intelligence in the Gouzenko era. His edict was that it is virtually impossible to find someone in hiding.

Someone knows. Look for the person who knows,” Neil McFadyen advised me.

Neil also recommended the reading of the story of the CIA,  Masters of Deceit.

From my background, no matter how strongly I feel the OPP could have done better with news conferences and releases, I have to make allowance for their need of secrecy.

Secrecy? Even when a human body was found in Caledon, police took no questions from the media. The obvious one would have been, “was the body wrapped in a beige comforter?” What was the purpose by that time of not disclosing the condition of the body?

Be all that as it may, I would wish for more comprehensive information about the day-to-day activities of the local police.

I would strive to let the public know that they are hard at work.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 05, 2013, 07:14:45 PM
The following made me think of Sonia.  I was watching Mystery Detectives on TV today, and they had the dna from am unknown person who murdered 2 young women.

When analyzing the dna, the tests went further into depth as to the perps physical characteristics and ethnic origin.
They were able to tell that he was of Eastern European descent, had either blue or green eyes, and probably had fair hair.

This narrowed down the search as they were confident of their findings, and the perp was caught.

Wouldn't be nice if the OPP had the same analysis done on the perp's dna, rather than the size of footwear.
I mean it would be helpful to them on so many levels. They would have a general description of the person through his dna.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on October 05, 2013, 07:36:20 PM
I am not 100 percent certain, but I do not think DNA profiling to that extent is permitted in Canada.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on October 06, 2013, 12:46:24 AM
That sounds truly fantasic jellybean, I look forward to that day.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 11, 2013, 09:12:52 AM
Always of interest in these instances for any number of crimes to be potentially solved. If there were holdouts from the dna testing process in Sonia's case, this is exactly what they should be doing with any and all of them. Whether this is part of that or just wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on October 11, 2013, 09:28:12 AM
I agree D1--any holdouts from the voluntary dna testing should be thoroughly investigated.  This may be "wishful thinking" but I notice that the man taken into custody lives within 800 meters of where Sonia's car was found (behind 67 Broadway.)  Fingers crossed everybody!

Quote
John Street is now closed from Little York Street to Church Street.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on October 11, 2013, 09:58:09 AM
When you consider the huge cost and length of time it would take to analyze 700 dna samples, it seems logical that only a small number were actually processed, and in a reverse investigative action, the main focus would be on those men who did not volunteer a sample.  Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 04, 2013, 08:29:44 PM
It's so hard and so sad to have such silence on Sonia's thread. I understand; likely we feel we have nothing new to say. I don't have any ideas. Lots of questions, but no fresh insights.
All I do in the waiting is quietly hope that LE has something up their sleeve. Or that someone who knows something will do the right thing and come forward -- even if that feels very hard to do. Even if it seems like what one 'feels' might be nothing -- and yet still wriggles its way in consciousness as something that isn't, quite, "right." That's often how I imagine it goes, with leads: you get to a point where you realize things can't add up logically anymore. I wait with hope this will happen to someone close to Sonia or her case; they will realize there IS information LE needs to know.
Bumping for Sonia.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 04, 2013, 09:38:43 PM
I agree with that soccermom, it is sad and heart breaking that this seems to have slipped between the crack of the LE.  Even the orangeville banner doesnt have any interest any more so sad as Sonia gave her life to healing and helping people .  Pray every day her killer will be found and punished
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Deb R on November 04, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
Well said, soccermom and eyeswideopen, I couldn't agree more! Very few posts in the last few weeks about Sonia, like you said, hopefully someone who has been "toying" with the idea to report something or someone that just doesn't sit right will decide to do so now.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 05, 2013, 05:11:08 PM
Sonia's thread is about the most interesting on here. I mean they've taken DNA from numerous males in that area, unheard of really in Canada on other criminal cases. They want this person bad, really bad and nothing has panned out. I watched a case today and I think it possibly is on here. About the murder in Ottawa several years ago about a lady on a bicycle, she was assaulted an murdered. Other sexual assaults took place, they finally got the person. Now this person that they caught and sentenced, only got ten years. They would be out now and I wonder has this person been looked at. Possibly was out of jail when Sonia was murdered. I feel that the person is in the files, they've talked to the person who killed Sonia, I believe that. JMO. We all can say on here that no case has taken such a focus on finding the killer. Someone in that area knows something and they should come forward. Because when the axe falls and they are found to know something, they could also go to prison for obstructing justice. I hope they don't let this case die out without attention. I do believe the killer is going to be caught. Unless it was a person passing through and going to another country, it is unlikely that they will get away with this murder.  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 05, 2013, 08:49:26 PM
Ardeth Wood was murdered by Chris Meyers 10 years ago on an Ottawa bike path.  It took a couple years to solve it and he is eligible for parole in 2015. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 05, 2013, 10:39:11 PM
Cape, that's interesting, that you think the perp has been questioned already. Do you think LE specifically has suspicions about the person responsible  and talked to him on that basis or is it more that you think he may have been a general contact -- close neighbour, co-worker, etc, that LE would have "routinely" looked at?
 I wish LE would give us even a modest bit more info. If we could know whether it's believed that Sonia was able to fight back, the public could be thinking through about people who may have had facial or wrist scratches or bruising; that would be a HUGE help to know! This is what I mean about feeling like "something doesn't sit right"; maybe someone came home with scratches that seem odd, and the explanation doesn't quite make sense. But coupled with new info might prompt a tip.....
At this point, surely SOME of the holdback info might usefully be shared. Or maybe LE is closer to closure here than we know.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 06, 2013, 08:58:19 AM
Ardeth Wood was murdered by Chris Meyers 10 years ago on an Ottawa bike path.  It took a couple years to solve it and he is eligible for parole in 2015. 
Thanks Discus, that is the case I'm talking about. Well he would be out of prison, I do believe at the time Sonia was murdered. Now I don't know how far Orangeville is from Ottawa. But this guy could be anywhere in Ontario now and I'd say the police do know where he is. He could have been working at that construction site that was not far away.

And Soccermom, yes, I do believe that they have possibly already questioned the individual responsible in this case. I wish we knew the number of people that were interviewed on this case. Of course, they will not give us the names, but I would be willing to bet that somewhere in that file there is the name of the killer. 

In the Chris Meyers case, he had been questioned earlier also. And then he slipped through the cracks, because he was assaulting people, but the police did not connect him. So all cases that are of a sexual assault nature in the Ontario area should be looked at that the perp may have committed this murder.JMO  But other cities in Ontario and surrounding area should be pullingn all of their sexual assault cases and anyone who has been arrested or charged. I can't believe that the person who killed Sonia, that it was their only violent crime. Prayers for everyone always on this case, investigators and family members. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 06, 2013, 01:40:16 PM
Ottawa is a five or six hour drive from Orangeville.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 06, 2013, 03:25:27 PM
Close enough, say if he had work down there or something. Now I'm not sure if Meyers was out of jail at this time. Sometimes prisoners are released early on good behaviour or other things, like taking counselling and all that and being a model prisoner. It would be interesting to know if he has been released. In my mind, I do believe that some of those detectives have some kind of a gut feeling about something in this case and of course, we're not going to know that. They could be just waiting for this person to make one mistake. Usually someone starts talking after a couple of years. It's soon time for someone to have loose lips on this case. And the community of Orangeville should never let this die out, keep it as active as they can. Even at Christmas time, light a few candles in rememberance of Sonia.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 06, 2013, 07:46:53 PM
Cape, one really hopes LE would have been considering an angle like this one -- but just in case I still think it might be worth calling in a tip asking about Meyers: the Orangeville Police Service tip line is (519) 941-2522 and  Crime Stoppers is 1-800-222-8477.  I hope you'll send it in. We'll be closer to justice for Sonia if folks will report even if they're not sure or think it's "nothing" ....
Sometimes our "gut" knows more than we suspect.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 08, 2013, 11:43:50 AM
I also agree with the premise that this person has already been interviewed, possibly quite early on in the investigation.  Smooth talk on his part, and what would have been deemed a rock solid alibi at the time allowed him to slip through the cracks.  Alibi's are there to be checked and double checked.

Not all dna has been swabbed from those who crossed her path or who knew her.  IMO. It was the The Orangeville Police who were too quick in judgement of those that were initially interviewed as not being a suspect.

I also strongly feel that the OPP needs to bring in a detective to assist with a pair of "fresh eyes".
It is all too easy to claim a case and make it their pet case, thus excluding other ideas.
After awhile one cannot see the tree for the forest.

I found one statement made by the lead detective as to why the offer of the $50,000 reward, very interesting.
She said that perhaps those who were afraid to speak up may now come forward, as relationships change over time.

To me, this falls into the area of the alibi given by the perp at that time of interview.
as an example - I was working at the time, and have a time card to prove it. (buddies can check out a guy's time card for him)
or - I was out of town at the time - here again a friend could verify it for him.

Let's face it, the police are stuck. They have nowhere else to go on this. (In my opinion, sadly)
Perhaps this perp has long flown the coop, and is not available to be brought in for questioning, time and time again, until he trips himself up.

Good luck to the police, and thankfully they are still plugging away at it, but I am sure they could use a little help with a fresh approach.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 09, 2013, 10:26:07 AM
Jellybean, I certainly was not aware of the comment made by one of the lead detectives, that maybe someone would come forward with the 50G reward, because relationships change over time. And this is my feeling, but I did not know of that comment. So I'd say that in the heart of hearts here, that investigators believe that they have a person in their sights that could have committed this crime, but they haven't got that piece of the puzzle to arrest the person. I really do believe they have questioned the killer and the name is in their files. I'd say they are keeping a close eye on this individual, without the person's knowledge. I think that there will be an arrest in this case, when we least expect it. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 10, 2013, 10:24:06 AM
I sure hope you are right Capeheart, I sure hope you are right.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 15, 2013, 09:28:15 PM
Hallo all --
I`ve been thinking. Maybe we should draft an open letter to LE -- offering support for their efforts, but also calling for more information? We could ask for info on the dna project (including whether people who knew Sonia who may be overseas were tested) and other questions we think LE might be able to release (I imagine they cannot release COD/weapon, among other details) that posters here have been wondering about. We could debate the questions we want to ask here, and circulate the draft itself publicly on the site. Sigh: I'm not offering to lead such a project, but I'd offer feedback and input and my handle :)
The final version -- the actual letter -- could appear here, or be sent to, say, the _O'ville Banner_  or both; it would be an urgent call from the UC community, and if many of us came together here it might at least feel like we`re doing something, and once again put a spotlight on Sonia`s case.
My thoughts, tonight.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 15, 2013, 09:52:00 PM
Soccermom  Frankly, I have posted on this site for 3 years, and am weary of the lack of progress on her murder.  I have been very committed to her site.

Frankly, after all of this time - I am finished with this thread. I have given every scenario possible.
|I have looked into and posted info on the boots, every article on her murder,  I could go on and on = but enough said.

It bothers me when posters come on and say " gosh this site has been so quiet this past while" No one is posting on it... well it is open to everyone to keep it going. Not just the few of us that have been persistent and consistent over the years, :)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 15, 2013, 10:17:41 PM
Soccermom, I have modified my post. Not that I don't support the idea, but it would take deep consideration on my part. LE are working on it - so I choose to wait and hope that an arrest will be made soon, of which I doubt.

Lack of progress?  I believe that le are stuck. Only they have the tools to solve it

Quite frankly, I have done my bit, and am finished with this thread for the time being, until something new comes along down the long very long road.
This could take years, if ever!!
jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on November 16, 2013, 12:20:07 AM
JB --
I commented on silence a while ago when there was a period of inactivity; I genuinely haven't meant to suggest any disrespect to the posters who have been so committed to justice for Sonia over all these years and who, like you, are exhausted. In fact, I intended the opposite; there have been so many good questions asked here, and so, so much work put in, that I was thinking perhaps an open letter might offer recognition and respect for that work, and opportunity to collectively present this to LE. Myself, I don't blame LE or think they have bungled; the letter would be a support for them equally as a space for our collective call for some info and continued action.

I came, relatively speaking, late to Sonia's thread; this is the major reason I wouldn't present myself as a leader on this....
But I guess if there isn't a broad-based network of support, this isn't a great idea. I was thinking it would have to work with fairly solid representation --  as a UC community initiative.
Bumping for Sonia,  as I know we all are.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 16, 2013, 07:52:10 AM
It's sad that we cannot offer any more scenerios/information regarding Sonia's murder, like Jellybean says we have pretty much covered every scenerio.  One thing I know I will always think she knew her killer.

The Police, I will bet, would not answer any questions we would put forth.  They are the ones that ask the questions.  I have sent them letters regarding Christine Jessop and I would go as far as saying that the replies were almost like form letters, they want you to give them info, not the other way around.  I don't mean to come across as rude, I understand your frustration.  I cannot go anywhere near that area without thinking of Sonia. 
From following many crimes these days, I see that many of them take years before the Police actually lay charges.  I have faith they will make an arrest...but like you I wish it was sooner, rather than later. We have never heard who attacked Shelly Loder either, or killed Audrey Gleave......it is scary.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 20, 2013, 02:51:14 PM
re: hf
Quote
Hallo all --
I`ve been thinking. Maybe we should draft an open letter to LE -- offering support for their efforts, but also calling for more information? We could ask for info on the dna project (including whether people who knew Sonia who may be overseas were tested) and other questions we think LE might be able to release (I imagine they cannot release COD/weapon, among other details) that posters here have been wondering about. We could debate the questions we want to ask here, and circulate the draft itself publicly on the site. Sigh: I'm not offering to lead such a project, but I'd offer feedback and input and my handle
The final version -- the actual letter -- could appear here, or be sent to, say, the _O'ville Banner_  or both; it would be an urgent call from the UC community, and if many of us came together here it might at least feel like we`re doing something, and once again put a spotlight on Sonia`s case.
My thoughts, tonight.


I appreciate the effort and do see merit in the thought. I also concur this may not be the place to spearhead any action from. A local from the community or family member would be best to start something like this imo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 20, 2013, 03:21:32 PM
After reading everything and absorbing everything with a clear mind, this man is no longer living within the Orangeville area.
He flew the coop very early on, long before the dna collective program ever began.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 20, 2013, 03:42:54 PM
Agreed.  :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on November 20, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
Hi D1,
Just to clarify, the following post you quoted from "hf" should be credited to soccermom not me.  :)

Quote

Posted by: D1
« on: Today at 02:51:14 PM »


re: hf
Quote

    Hallo all --
    I`ve been thinking. Maybe we should draft an open letter to LE -- offering support for their efforts, but also calling for more information? We could ask for info on the dna project (including whether people who knew Sonia who may be overseas were tested) and other questions we think LE might be able to release (I imagine they cannot release COD/weapon, among other details) that posters here have been wondering about. We could debate the questions we want to ask here, and circulate the draft itself publicly on the site. Sigh: I'm not offering to lead such a project, but I'd offer feedback and input and my handle
    The final version -- the actual letter -- could appear here, or be sent to, say, the _O'ville Banner_  or both; it would be an urgent call from the UC community, and if many of us came together here it might at least feel like we`re doing something, and once again put a spotlight on Sonia`s case.
    My thoughts, tonight. 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 20, 2013, 11:09:09 PM
Sorry, haven't had much time to spend on here lately and posted a little quickly. thanks for the correction
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on November 28, 2013, 12:16:59 AM
If that is true, then solving this case is relatively easy. It's a small population and the police would only need to search for any male who moved from the area at the time. Pair that with the shoe size and the numbers are narrowed further.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 28, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Or....did the perp ever live in Orangeville?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 28, 2013, 10:14:07 AM
lol now we are back to square one!! :) ;)

If he is married - moving would not be an option as readily as if he were single, separated or divorced.
67% of couples in Orangeville are married. 80% of the population are homeowners.

Here is the census of Orangeville.  Everything is broken down. lots of info there. just keep scrolling down on the left hand side.
http://www.city-data.com/canada/Orangeville-Town.html

Mean age in Dufferin County is in the 40 year range, according to Dufferin County census.

Taken from Caledon census
In Caledon, 80.6% of census families were married couples in 2011, while 8.2% were common-law-couples and 11.2% were lone-parent families.

Its obvious, I love stats :)

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: concerned lady on December 13, 2013, 08:13:11 PM
First time visiting this site.  I have glanced over some posts but not read all.
1.  A friend of mine visited the same dating site as Sonia and had a strange incident happen to her.  She made several phone calls to police to reported it and eventually they listened to her.  She never heard back and does not know if her "lead" was even looked into. This friend had been seeing someone from the site who called one night to say he was coming over after he finished working.  He asked her which door she was going to leave unlocked for him, as it would be late.  She advised she would not be leaving a door unlocked and he became quite demanding that she should.  She did not and I don't think he came over that night, but I am not sure. (If a door was left open for someone, who is to say there was only one person involved?  Door open, anyone number of people can enter).
2. Is this case related in some way to the woman who was beaten in the north end of Orangeville a couple of months after Sonia was killed? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Im_new_here2 on December 14, 2013, 03:01:40 AM
Hello ..
I havn't been able to keep up on this case but before i go back and read alot of stuff can someone just gimme a quick recap ...just the facts what happend . any suspects since it happend or any details and where we are now loke is it still a big mystery just a caatch up...thanks
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on December 14, 2013, 10:26:58 AM
If anyone wants "just the facts" they can refer to "Sonia Varaschin- Timeline of Events.  This thread created by UC member "Mom", provides only media reports and any official police statements, without member comments and theories. 

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.0)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 14, 2013, 10:47:05 AM
The timeline is a good suggestion for catch-up, HF.
I think another answer is that things are still a big mystery. LE has not named any POIs and in fact cleared one person close to the case (on-and-off-again bf) very early in the investigation. The most info, I think, we've been given about potential conflicts in Sonia's life (former work situations; young, noisy neighbours) came from Sonia's mom. The very wide DNA sweep seems to have yielded nothing. Earlier this year LE announced a $50,000 reward for info leading to arrest in Sonia's case. I believe folks have discussed this as either a sign of how little LE has in hand OR (and I think this is the much less pervasive view) as a way to smoke-out leads on a suspect they may have in sight but can't pin. With all respect to the regular posters, Sonia's thread is periodically quiet these days; it's hard to generate new ideas without new information.
There are still differing opinions on whether Sonia's case is or is not connected to the attack on Shelley Loder and the murder of Audrey Gleave.
LE and the media seem to be very quiet these days as well.
There may be more info in Audrey's case toward the end of this month, since we're coming upon a terrible "anniversary" of her death.
I'm not sure if this helps, I'mNewHere2. The saddest news is that I think you haven't missed much. But maybe you will bring new ideas or questions :)
(lol, no pressure)
sm
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2013, 11:31:05 AM
As time goes by anniversary dates are about the only time when any updates get provided. Eventually even that dwindles to every tenth or twenty year anniversary. Time is of the essence. I think its up to the individual people families and communities affected to keep on their reporters and local media outlets to get them to ask the tough questions. Whatever  information that needed to be kept silent the first year could possibly be reappraised for release 3 or 5 years later.  Its easier to revert and defer to status quo than to re-evaluate the process every year if allowed.

There are things about Sonia's murder and maybe other related crimes that are very troubling and raise some pretty big questions. This was one of the few cases here in Canada warranting fbi involvement. This is the largest and only one of its kind mass dna testing case here in Canada. Yet we are told very little of whats going on and no one seems to care the fear and distrust left behind.

The letters that were supposed to be sent out clearing individuals after dna testing do not seem to have materialized. In an unusual move, the only person to be publicly cleared was at a very early time after questions arose given the proximity the person lived in relation to where Sonia's body was found. He subsequently moved away out of the country before dna testing began. 

It has been a considerable period of time since Sonia's murder and it seems any opportunity for justice has slipped on by brushed aside by whatever is going on with the politics of policing. An update with some some real truth in content is already long overdue in Sonia's and all of the other similar murders around that area. Get to know your local media, keep on them, don't leave it to the big city news to issue the same old info and appeal every year. Time is of the essence.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 14, 2013, 10:23:30 PM
Nicely articulated, D1.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 15, 2013, 11:04:31 AM
First time visiting this site.  I have glanced over some posts but not read all.
1.  A friend of mine visited the same dating site as Sonia and had a strange incident happen to her.  She made several phone calls to police to reported it and eventually they listened to her.  She never heard back and does not know if her "lead" was even looked into. This friend had been seeing someone from the site who called one night to say he was coming over after he finished working.  He asked her which door she was going to leave unlocked for him, as it would be late.  She advised she would not be leaving a door unlocked and he became quite demanding that she should.  She did not and I don't think he came over that night, but I am not sure. (If a door was left open for someone, who is to say there was only one person involved?  Door open, anyone number of people can enter).
Thank you for your post.  I could never really figure out why Sonia went onto dating sites in the first place.  Other than the obvious reason - to search for Mr. Right.

 It has been said that she stopped going onto POF after she met her "on again, off again, boyfriend, of whom she dated for a year (some reports say a year and a half).

Then she returned to dating sites shortly preceding her death.  The police made a statement, that she gave too much personal information about herself on the sites, and this could have placed her at risk. Her brother and her friends knew that she had returned to dating sites, but they were not aware that she dated any of them.

Addressing the "unlocked door, her mother wondered if, Sonia while in the process of putting her cat out, forgot to lock her door, when she went to answer her phone.

That call was from her on again off again bf, and it was around 11:30 pm (some reports say 11:00 pm) on Aug 29th.
That was the last time anyone heard from her.

In the beginning, bf and Sonia were introduced by "mutual friends: Apparently, he appeared to be available.  They did not meet on a dating site.

Even at her funeral, he was referred to as the boyfriend.  Sad, really.  She had the looks, the personality, the education, the kindness, varied interests, etc.  Very sad, that Sonia did not meet a wonderful  man to marry. This is just my opinion, as I believe that Sonia deserved so much better, than a relationship of that kind.

Putting that aside, it is difficult to meet eligible men when one is in their 40's (as Sonia was at the time)  In my opinion too many of them in that age group, who are "so called available",  often have "complications" in the "set up" of their personal lives,  thus impeding chances of having a long lasting relationship.

As to your friend reporting her incident to the police.  The investigators do follow every lead, however they do not return calls.  Your friend did the right thing.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on December 15, 2013, 03:01:10 PM
All of this should be a stark reminder to all those visiting dating sites. Let your friends know please. Recently there was a man captured by police in Alberta for murder 1. He had been on a dating site prior ... is the only way we were able to see a picture of him.
Dates through friends or venues of interest are so much better/safer than those dating sites.

I agree with JB, once those men are past their 30's, there is often so much baggage they are carrying along to another relationship and that can go vice versa as well. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Im_new_here2 on December 16, 2013, 04:54:13 PM
I still don't know if they found her though...all i read was about the crime scene being found but nothing about her body ? something else i am gonna go out on a limb here but is this POF AKA Plenty Of Fish is that the dating sight even though i allready can guess it most likely was ...?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 16, 2013, 05:16:09 PM
I'm new here 2

Please click on the link provided below for your answer, re was body found.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4931.0

POF does stand for Plenty of Fish.

JB :) :)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 19, 2013, 07:38:45 PM
After reading this I can't help but wonder ..................is this why Sonia's murder has not been solved


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/12/19/orangeville_cops_want_ontario_to_investigate_bosses.html
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 19, 2013, 10:45:27 PM
Definitely a complicating factor to worked into the equation. Getting anywhere further with it, even worse. It takes a while for the big picture to come together in the stranger cases and for all the little pieces to make sense. Its not just one piece in isolation that is the determining factor but every once in awhile the weight shifts with new information.

Active duty police officers usually do not speak out without risking their careers. Its part of their code of conduct and a rigid  requirement. You will generally see the symptoms of a case gone wrong long before the confirmation.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 20, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
A Sgt of Orangeville Police has resigned, after a 3 year battle with upper management.  He requested that a Section 25 be applied (which is in fact a complaint against the effectiveness of the force to police properly). Management retaliated and it was all pretty ugly.  Upon leaving, he  did mention SV's murder.   

He has left, and now the Police Association are now taking up issues which they want investigated at a higher level.  This force has had problems for quite sometime with Management. That is, if I am to believe what I have read.

On a good note - thankfully, the OPP are now the lead investigators in her case. They have been for quite sometime.
Even with 3 crime scenes, her murder is very complex - so we have been told by the OPP.  (No smoking Gun).
The Orangeville Police are still assisting where they can, and are very supportive of the continuing investigation, and kudos to them.  In all fairness, this police force do not run into this type of thing every day.  It was very rare, thus the lack of experience by the attending officers may have come  into play.  JMO

Who ever did this - has been down right lucky so far, in not getting caught. I am thinking that by the very risky act of removing her body from her home, has complicated things - in his favour.

The initial home check by the O'ville cops may have disturbed some of the forensic evidence at the scene, and the ensuing walk through by more of the force may have contributed to it as well.

However common sense says - that of course, no one would think of wearing protective foot wear etc. upon checking up on a person's well being and home.

I have respect for all of the officers and detectives who are plugging away at this complex case, day after day, after day.  It must be very discouraging at times.  I hope this reward of $50,000 will move this case forward.

 jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 20, 2013, 01:27:32 PM
Improper procedure and irregularities in clearing suspects early on is all it takes to leave the door open to what the new investigators have to deal with now. This allows time for a potential suspect to relocate or to even leave the country for instance. It all compounds the problems that have to be addressed in order to get someone like that tested by proper procedure now.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 20, 2013, 11:31:55 PM
MARK PRITCHARD - the first detective of the OPP called in to work on SV case right from the beginning Sept 2010.
SV's case lost a good detective, IMO

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=41508

In 2009 -
The OPP Accolade Awards recognize exceptional performance and achievement among its members

ORILLIA, ON, September 8 - The Ontario Provincial Police will be recognizing some of its most distinguished members at its annual Accolade Awards on Tuesday, September 8, 2009.

Accolade Awards are presented to both uniform and civilian OPP members who make outstanding and meaningful contributions to the organization.

The awards program consists of various special team and individual categories.

Nominations are first submitted by colleagues, and are then
narrowed down by a distinguished panel of community members and OPP staff.

In the end, 13 remarkable individuals/teams are selected for their outstanding achievements.

This year's Accolade winners are:

Investigation: Project Eliminator

Detective Constable D.H. (Doug) Bradley, Kirkland Lake Detachment

Detective Constable Y.D. (Yvan) Godin, Kirkland Lake Detachment

Provincial Constable H.B. (Bruce) Keefe, Lambton Group (Petrolia) Detachment

Detective Staff Sergeant M.J. (Mike) Pothier, Technical Operations Unit

Detective Inspector M.A. (Mark) Pritchard, Criminal Investigation Branch, North Bay

Provincial Constable M.P. (Michael) Walton, Nottawasaga Detachment (CR)

Staff Sergeant R.A. (Richard) Witty, Detachment Commander South Porcupine Detachment

and today;


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2232916-tracking-serial-predators/

Look at what Detective Mark Pritchard is doing today!!/ 


Feb 02, 2012 
Tracking serial predators

Methods much improved since Bernardo case



The Canadian Press

Tracking of serial predators began in earnest after Paul Bernardo, shown in this 1995 file photo in the holding area at the provincial court in Toronto, was arrested.
 
     
By Susan Clairmont

You’ve probably never heard of the province’s Serial Predator Crime Investigation Co-ordinator.




Even most police officers don’t know what it is.

Yet, without the co-ordinator, serial sex killer Russell Williams might not have been caught so quickly.

Its success should be something to brag about. And yet the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services dragged its feet and made excuses and refused to answer the most basic questions about the SPCIC for three long days until finally they allowed me to speak to Detective Inspector Mark Pritchard of the Ontario Provincial Police, who oversees the position.

“It’s all about preventing further victimization,” he says.

A message the ministry should be eager to send. Let’s backtrack a bit.

I made a brief mention of the SPCIC Monday in my column about Hamilton’s Loujack Café, who is accused of being a serial killer.

Staff Sergeant Steve Hrab of Hamilton police explained that because Café is charged with two counts of first-degree murder and three counts of attempted murder, investigators had to notify the SPCIC within seven days. Investigators are mandated by law to contact the co-ordinator any time they believe they have a serial predator on their hands.

Much of what I know about the SPCIC comes from former Hamilton police detective Don Forgan. He went on to become the serial predator co-ordinator from 2008-2011. (At present, it’s an officer from Waterloo.)

When I called him and told him the ministry wasn’t telling me anything, he turned his car around on the highway and came to see me in the newsroom.

His message? The SPCIC works. It helps catch very dangerous criminals. It is a success story.

And, says Forgan, the public has a right to know that.

“Especially,” he adds, “the victims of crime.”

The position was created in 1996 after the arrest of serial killer Paul Bernardo. The Campbell Report, which looked at errors made in that case, concluded there was a dismal lack of communication and co-operation between police services in Ontario and that multi-jurisdictional major case investigations could be improved.
 _______________________________

MORE: DANGEROUS AND FREE
 _______________________________

Major cases include homicides, non-familial sexual assaults or abductions, criminal harassment where the offender is not known to the victim, missing persons and found human remains where foul play is suspected, or any other offence that is designated by the director of Major Case Management. That’s Pritchard.

Forgan’s background in the forensics, child abuse, sex assault and homicide units in his 35 years with Hamilton police made him perfect for the co-ordinator’s job.

While he was based out of a Toronto-area office, Forgan was on the road most of the time, meeting with investigators across the province.

Police are mandated to contact the co-ordinator “as soon as an officer establishes a link between two or more major cases,” says Forgan. “It doesn’t matter whether it’s a single jurisdiction or multi-jurisdiction.”

Russell Williams fell on his watch.

The co-ordinator’s role is to bring representatives — usually inspectors — from each jurisdiction together to form a joint management team and appoint a case manager from one of the involved services. If a manager can’t be agreed upon, there is a pool of qualified case managers available across the province that the co-ordinator can draw from.

But that is rarely necessary, says Forgan.

“Since Bernardo, the culture of these investigations has changed,” he says. “There is much more co-operation now.”

“I always liked if the OPP was involved,” he adds, “because their case managers are basically already multi-jurisdictional.”

The co-ordinator also helps sort out the sharing of resources, such as a file co-ordinator, during the course of an investigation.

Forgan also worked with the province’s PowerCase co-ordinator to alert investigators to possible links between major crimes. PowerCase is a remarkable software program that finds similarities in data inputted from major case investigations around Ontario.

For example, the name of a person of interest.

Pritchard says Bernardo’s name came up six times in different jurisdictions, but police were slow to make the connections.

Forgan points out British Columbia doesn’t have PowerCase. If it did, perhaps Robert Pickton would have been caught sooner.
 ______________________________________

PICKTON: POLICE DID BEST THEIR BEST
 ______________________________________

“Ontario has the only linked case management system in the world,” says Pritchard. “Things are substantially better than they were during Bernardo.”

You’d think the province would want the public to know that.

Susan Clairmont’s commentary appears regularly in The Spectator. sclairmont@thespec.com

905-526-3539 | @susanclairmont




     
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 21, 2013, 02:37:38 PM
There are many ways and lots of reasons for any case to go unsolved. Each has to be worked through and the evidence followed no matter where it leads. In Sonia’s case as well several others around that vicinity, the evidence strongly suggests the killer was familiar with the victim. For Sonia that included, her residence and that area as well the area where her body was found. A list of potential suspects was sought and a supposedly massive dna testing process began, The fbi were called in to confer yet that process yielded nothing. A certain acquaintance of Sonia’s was placed in the spotlight due the criteria for inclusion on the dna test list but that person is the only person to have been publicly cleared by Police. His clearance was by way of interview and not dna testing. One would at first assume he had to have a fairly airtight alibi.

With the case remaining unsolved everything is open to be revisited. IMO, either the first Police whether accidentally or deliberately botched the case initially; we are stuck with the outcome or the perp is way smarter, craftier, and devious than first thought. Luck should not get you through a net this wide if all the conditions are as the Police have said. So imo there is either a problem within the Police investigation as one cop insinuates, or the killer’s profile may need to be re-evaluated. That may even include the possibility of a hired killer with someone relaying personal information for use in setting up the crime.

If murder has been planned to any degree, often an alibi will be pre planned and put in place too. A smarter killer may have a better alibi. But…. With dna available, that should trump any alibi as long as everyone is tested and cleared by way of the same process. Until that is confirmed, questions regarding the integrity of this investigation will remain in mind for some. Dependent those answers, a staged setup could be a possibility and the killer could even be a well financed and resourceful individual with a hidden motive. Organized crime etc could be involved if you go down that road. That does get into some very unsubstantiated speculative conspiracy type lines that are generally not warranted. Usually we are looking for a jealous romance gone wrong type. Way simpler explanations involved except for explanation of the Police investigation. I am resigned to the fact that the Police are not going to do any more in regard the untested potential poi and that the media are not going to ask or say any more for whatever reasons there are to justify these actions. Everything hinges from the answers to what is going on in regard the untested friend of Sonia’s.  imo. As long as there are no arrests, this is where it starts and ends. No answer is an answer. A wall you can’t climb has been placed in front of anyone wanting answers here.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 21, 2013, 03:49:00 PM
Thanks for posting that info, JB! It's interesting, isn't it, that Pritchard -- first responsible for Sonia's case -- now heads up the unit tracking SKs, and that the former lead for that unit indicates his preference for OPP involvement in SK searches -- and Sonia's case is now led by OPP. We've also had FBI intervention in her case, which is unusual. While Sonia may have had some small conflicts (as we've been led to believe) in her personal life, she is generally recognized as someone who was well-liked and "low risk" in terms of victimology. I guess what I am saying is: I have always worried that Sonia's case is not an isolated crime.
D1 -- you've presented some good scenarios. Regardless of LE's role, I have always felt the perp is much more intelligent than implied in the "risk-taker" and young/drug/alcohol rhetoric attributed to him.  I think it's the way I imagine he used the sheets as leverage (as I understand his purpose) to remove Sonia from the home. That suggests to me he can snap into a violent rage and then be cold and calculating enough to strategize after it. I don't expect this is someone young. I do believe this is someone who camouflages normally in regular society -- for the most part. Frankly, I worry he is experienced with this kind of vicious attack: I am one of the folks who believes there is may be a connection between Sonia's murder and Audrey Gleave's. I wish I knew more about both women to see if a connection could be more than random.
I know not everyone feels the same way -- that an SK is at work here and/or that the perp has high IQ and may be (if to relative degree) socially appealing.  But, well ... moo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on December 21, 2013, 07:23:53 PM
I agree with Soccermom. I think the murders of Sonia Varaschin and Audrey Gleave are connected along with the violent attack on Shelley Loder. A  SK is on the loose. Just my gut feeling
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 21, 2013, 07:51:38 PM
The problem with the SK theory is that it does not match up with the information that has been released by Police. The killers profile would have to have been deliberately skewed to hide that connection. Could this be an operational tactic to ease public fear and concerns? Its possible but the profile was highly suggestive of someone Sonia knew and who was very familiar with her and all the locations associated. It points much more towards the only person cleared by a means other than by dna testing.

That is what has been left in place for the public to ponder and it seems that is all that will be given. One can speculate on all the possibilities what this means but either way, dna testing of the untested friend would point what direction the investigation should go. If not the untested friend of Sonia's the sk or other possibilities become much more viable. Until then though, there is a major stumbling block in the way to achieving any progress . Perhaps that is the intent? The investigators are no dummies, they are the cream of the crop and have had fbi input.
Strangeness abounds.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 22, 2013, 01:18:27 PM
Re: SK
In Audrey's case:http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4489.msg107206#msg107206

Quote: Det Ian Matthews

While the motive remains a mystery, as do Gleave's movements in the days before her death, Matthews says it was not a random attack.

"The person who killed Audrey was a person who was known to her."

In Sonia's case:
He was familiar with Sonia, and she may have known him.

There was a 30 year difference between the two victims.  So, I can't see where the two victims would have anything in common (IMO) or have the same interests to meet, or even to meet friends with similar backgrounds.

The m.o is different as well.

Once again, in fearing  a SK, in these murders,  take for example:  The Freeland slaying.  She was found in a ditch in Caledon, not too far from where Sonia's body was located.  Naturally we wondered if a serial killer was on the loose and that there could  be a connection to Varaschin and Freeland slayings.  That's a logical question because of the geo area, the age of the two women, however it turned that Freeland's ex room mate was charged with her murder.

The only other possible connection to Sonia, in my mind, might be the woman who was viciously beaten in Mono.
However, the police believe that there is no connection.  This woman was attacked in broad daylight. (Personally, I think this may have been a psychiatric individual) - perhaps a schizophrenic.

There has not been another murder like Sonia's - at all.  1. A single woman, never married - murdered at home. 2. removed from the home. 3. used her own vehicle. 4. drove it back to close proximity as to where the murder occurred.



Terrible murders seem to happen in clusters all across the country. I think that 2010 and was just one of those years.

Just my thoughts on it ...... But,  I would be a bit more  cautious than usual, until the perps are caught. :)

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 22, 2013, 01:43:32 PM
But the possibility of a SK doesn't rule out that Sonia (or Audrey) may have known their attackers; someone may have insinuated himself into their lives, either professionally or personally. A "known" connection doesn't rule out an SK (although my own feeling is that both women were surveilled, possibly electronically, and so may or may not have themselves known their attackers). Yes, there is a significant age and geographical distance between Audrey and Sonia, but there can be any other endless amount of connections between them: did they belong to online reading groups, gaming, French lessons, grocery clubs, did they each make a customer complaint to a head office, did they each attend a specific theatre event etc etc -- all the minute details we will likely never have opportunity to know and which may not "connect" them other than through possibly random contact with a perp. I think some of the early graphic rumours (which I only found retroactively) specifically in relation to Sonia's murder, which I will not repeat here because they are rumours, and the "sexual component" and the speculation it has generated in Audrey's case, are in part (but certainly not only) what makes me suspect connection. But, again, these are rumours -- uncorroborated.
Another thing: we don't know for certain the "acquaintance" who was cleared early was NOT tested. Many assume he was not tested in the early stage of exoneration because that announcement came well prior to the info on the DNA sweep. But he may have been asked for his DNA at step 1 of the investigation (which would be a typical request, I believe) -- OR subsequently. To my knowledge, we haven't had confirmation either way. It would be good if LE would clear this up for us.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 22, 2013, 03:29:48 PM
The report that the acquaintance was cleared came so early on that there was not even time for testing to have taken place. The report stated he had been cleared by way of routine questioning. That's all we know. If attorneys were involved, testing would likely have required a warrant. If a foreign citizen, LE could not have kept him in the country. It is a bit strange for LE to have publicly cleared anyone so early on especially under the circumstance. If any other woman was found murdered anywhere else under similar circumstance and her body found ten miles or so away from home at a location almost right next door to her on and off bf, suspicion would naturally go in that direction. That coupled with the possibility that he may not have been DNA tested leaves a nagging quagmire of questions.

A considerable period of time has lapsed for any other avenues of investigation to have borne fruit if there was any possibility of success. Process of elimination brings it back to square one looking for who got through the net. This one possibility is too obvious for LE not to be aware but comes with too much silence surrounding the exact process by which he was cleared by to have any confidence in the results. Its a very easy question to answer, was he tested? yes or no? Why hasn't that been answered and why won't media publicly participate in asking? Fishy circumstance any way you view it. IMO..   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 22, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
I understand your frustration, D1, and your concerns about early clearance by "questioning" rather than by DNA. Again I believe it's possible a sample was requested and given "voluntarily" even before forensic results from the scene were available -- but yes we can only speculate in either direction.  But wholly on the other hand:  I also cannot shake the nagging feeling there is no DNA evidence from the scenes; I know that sounds preposterous, given the now-huge DNA sweep and three crime locations. But it's the "we believe" (that LE has the DNA of the killer)  comment from LE that has always struck me as bizarre. Errrrrrr, ahem! I know most folks don't agree with me that the DNA collection program in Sonia's case is more of a smoke-out than a rule-out effort, but that's actually what I fear -- and believe most -- in relation to this case. (I have posted this suggestion before and, lol don't think a single poster agreed.) I really, really hope I am wrong and you all are right!
(But if I'm not wrong: it won't matter if certain folks have given DNA or not; even an individual's hesitation to do so is not an indication of culpability.)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 22, 2013, 07:35:09 PM
SC.. I think there were some in agreement that LE may not have all the dna evidence they claimed. dannybam?

Which could also explain how the killer may have gotten away with it. -
Quote
If any other woman was found murdered anywhere else under similar circumstance and her body found ten miles or so away from home at a location almost right next door to her on and off bf, suspicion would naturally go in that direction


Dna would be a no brainer to use to test any suspicions against and obviously should be if they really have the killers dna.  LE has already gone out of their way to claim the ex bf is the only one cleared so far. Why not confirm he was tested if they have dna and there was no match. Either they haven't tested him or they don't actually have the definitive dna evidence to test against. smoke and mirrors
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 22, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
Taking dna samples, which they have done - would be a waste of money, time and resources, if they did not have the dna of the killer.

LE have even given us a glimpse into their plan to collect dna. (Concentric circles, I believe they said)

 One of Sonia's male neighbours said on video that he gave his dna gladly when they knocked on his door. Would he lie?
The man, where SV's body was found near his property also was asked and complied.
Would he lie??

Yes - they do have the dna of the killer.

The spokesperson, who initially said, that we may have your dna, gave a poor choice of words, when he said "may". 

These words were spoken very early on into the investigation.

Simple as that!!  They have it - but now they are working on matching it up with the killer who is still out there.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 22, 2013, 10:58:03 PM
Again, I know it sounds absurd. But what if the canvass -- the expense, time, resources -- was still assessed a feasible strategy even without dna? We were told suspicion would fall on individuals who did not comply. This has been a tactic used by LE before: to hold dna refusal as a rationale for further scrutiny. What if LE was using profile to establish the concentric circles ... because there really is so little else to go on? A smoke-out because there's no other option? Ok, ok: I'll stop, now, with this idea. I've mentioned it before and it generates more hopelessness than opportunity to sleuth further. But it is something I genuinely fear, alas.
I don't blame LE for the lack of success so far. I know O'ville and the OPP would like nothing better than to bring this case to justice. I don't believe things have been "bungled." But it does seem like there is very little to help move this case along. If LE has nothing how can they produce something?  I wish someone would release more info to the public because, as many of us here have articulated, I think it's going to be a tip that finally leads to finding the person responsible. If we could know more, perhaps something might click for someone. Type of weapon? Could be a huge clue to tweak a reaction....
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 23, 2013, 12:14:18 AM
Quote soccermom:

 If LE has nothing how can they produce something?  I wish someone would release more info to the public because, as many of us here have articulated, I think it's going to be a tip that finally leads to finding the person responsible. If we could know more, perhaps something might click for someone. Type of weapon? Could be a huge clue to tweak a reaction...."

There is no conspiracy here, for law enforcement to make things up IMO. DNA testing is ongoing.  It is, what it is, and they have shared that much with us. I do agree with you that le should release more of that profile.
From my point of view, this is their handicap -- in having the dna of the killer, and running around trying to match it up --
It reminds me of the old childhood story of Cinderella,  whereby the Prince who travelled across the land in search of the lovely lady, who lost her glass slipper at the ball> The Prince tried it on every pretty foot in the land.
That is what they are up against.  They are looking for that person.  And the "glass slipper", must fit the foot of that person., meaning  the dna.   IMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on December 23, 2013, 06:40:35 AM
LE usually takes a lot of heat when a murder isn't solved right away, but here's a quite laudatory report of work in Sonia's case by a group of journos comparing policing in Winnipeg. from http://blackrod.blogspot.ca/2011/05/is-north-end-spree-killer-back-at-work.html:

"Compare how the Winnipeg police are handling their hunt for a double-murderer with how the police chief of Orangeville, Ontario, population 27,000, attacked an unsolved murder in his town last year.

In August, Sonia Varaschin, 42, was killed by an intruder in her home in Orangeville, northwest of Toronto. The killer put her body in her car, drove it 12 kilometres to a neighbouring town, and dumped it next to a remote road. He then drove back to Orangeville, and abandoned the car in an alley.

Four months later, police pulled out all the stops on the investigation. They hosted 25 criminal profilers and investigators from across North America in a three day "investigative summit" to thrash over the details of the crime and to create a profile of the killer.

There were officers from the Ontario Provincial Police and the RCMP, homicide investigators from Toronto, Ottawa and York Region, plus FBI profilers.

In attendance were criminal profilers from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's Virginia-based behavioural analysis unit, Ontario Provincial Police and the RCMP, plus senior homicide investigators from several forces, including York Region, Toronto and Ottawa.

In December they issued a lengthy profile, something to engage the public and stimulate leads.

In Winnipeg, the chief of police begs people to contact police. Then he rushes off to the next photo-op.

They haven't solved the Varaschin murder yet. But at least they have no doubt their chief of police has done everything possible to nail her killer.

 We can't say the same."

Apologies if this story has been posted before. It does remind us of the significant resources and attention LE has put it for this case. Is that usual for a stand-alone?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 23, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
No this has not been posted before Soccermom, and thank you for the reminder - the difference between the treatment of the crimes from one force to another.

The OPP in Sonia's case, came into play very early on, simply because her remains were found outside of Orangeville jurisdiction.  However, Chief Tomi, (sp) of the Orangeville Police force is offering every assistance available.

Sonia has that going for her.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 23, 2013, 01:43:47 PM
LE has been known to employ the use of a "ruse" in certain investigations before to create and form perceptions that may further their goals. Its not a conspiracy per say but a tactic when they resort to that. Whether being used here or not, we have to go along with what they say til proven otherwise.

They say Sonia's killer was very familiar with her and all of the areas involved. The "coincidence" factor is a huge white elephant that LE is skirting around imo. The only person to be publicly cleared by LE is the the same person the evidence points most strongly towards. How coincidental for Sonia's body to have been found so far from home and so close to his residence. If not the bf (if he has been tested) who else had something against the bf or would want to point suspicion on him? For that is what has been done and would indicate a deeper knowledge of Sonia's life than ever. If not the bf, there is much more to this and a cunning and professionalism behind what we are seeing. There is some sort of message being left here. Unfortunately it appears that nothing more is going to be released and we are left with what we have been given.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 23, 2013, 05:28:48 PM
This is quite interesting...Loder attack and Sonia's murder..

http://www.orangeville.com/news-story/1480293-varaschin-murder-loder-attack-human-remains-discovered/

Apologies if it's been posted!

Interesting that the article at the link above includes statements made by one of our members, Lee Mellor. Known to us here at UC as redbeard.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 24, 2013, 01:51:25 PM
Lee participated in discussions here and concurred with LE on the profile released. That was at a time before he or any of us were aware how close the one friend of Sonia's actually lived in relation to where her body was found. I wonder what Lee would make of that coupled with his analysis and profile of the perp. Leaving a body close to a perp's residence was another sign of an amateur and closely matches up with Lee's original thoughts re organized unorganized. Before the investigation can proceed any further past this individual, questions need to be addressed. Back to square one.. was this person tested or not? If not why not? If not what can be done now? If tested and cleared, what else could the close proximity of body found to bfriends residence mean?

Confirmation should be easy enough to obtain if the man has been tested and cleared. However those questions have only been met with silence to date. None of the other avenues of investigation have produced fruit. Soon the case will end over exorbitant expenditures and budget concerns imo. Family friends and associates will need to become active to push this along any further imo. Discussing the options only takes you so far, specific actions are required at times to keep cold case status at bay. There is one available and justifiable cost effective avenue left to pursue here.


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 24, 2013, 02:06:43 PM
Lee Mellor is an amateur sleuth just like the rest of us, and he would be the first person to say so.  He studied material on crime, example - organized, vs disorganized, and has written some very interesting books covering Canadian Crimes - filling in the vacuum that exists. He is often willing to go out on a limb, re; a case, and predict the type of killer involved.  I can't recall what he said about Sonia's case, perhaps someone can fill me in?
Sonia's case is very different. (strange, actually)
Will this "Cinderella Case" be solved??

JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 26, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Let me put it this way,  The last four months, according to her mother, was full of strife.  Sonia was on dating sites at that time.  I HALF  believe that there may have been  a  physical distance between bf and Sonia, at the time of her murder, and that is why he was not a suspect.  not sure ON THAT!!

If the dna of bf was so important, regardless as to whatever country he came from within the commonwealth, he would have been approached to offer voluntarily his dna,  Canada and commonwealth countries do cooperate.

So to my present way of thinking, there is a reason why bf was eliminated from the start. That is the only reason that I can think of.  The reason being that he was not in the country of Canada at that time.

Sure, he called her.  But anyone can place a long distance phone call. etc. etc. etc.............
Who knows who the suspects are?  I think that OPP may have a few. 

JB




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 27, 2013, 04:17:11 PM
Lack of any confirmation in regard testing of the ex bf other that what LE has said leaves us to speculate but, he was cleared by way of interview with the lead investigator just days after the murder. Indicates that he was at least in the vicinity by then. The last person to speak with a victim is always of interest to investigators. There are others who have used the distance factor as an alibi to avoid investigation in other murders. Some of them have been caught doing that exact thing. Even Jodi Arias tried that tactic.

Lee Mellor when on here pretty well mirrored what LE said but added the prospect of intoxication to explain some of the actions that the killer took. I see in the latest article that he has backed off that and combined some unorganized and organized traits to explain the events. I don't think he knows yet just how close the ex bf lived to where Sonia was found.

Simple confirmation of testing would go along way to being able to move along. It shouldn't be so hard to confirm if it had taken place. Everyone should want that including the x bf for whom suspicions linger. Without that, we can only speculate what is really going on in regard clearing this individual so early on. It is akin to diplomatic immunity as it now stands. Is there maybe more to this individual than we know? 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on December 27, 2013, 11:20:21 PM
I agree with jb that there must have been a rock solid alibi for LE to eliminate the main suspect..the bf.  I don't think he was out of Canada because he attended her funeral. My trust in LE's BASIC 101 investigative murder protocol has always been that LE would zero in on the bf first.  We know that he was cleared very early on and we have no explanation as to why.  But LE know why they cleared him.

If you look at how the investigation continues--with the public request for voluntary dna samples--think about it--they wouldn't spend the money for this if they thought the bf might have done it. They must have ruled him out by dna. Nothing else makes sense.

I tend to trust that LE has at the very least, properly cleared the usual prime suspects. It seems so elementary--and I feel that I have to defend them. The fact that they have never made public that they got the bf's dna doesn't surprise me.  They play games--we have seen it before. 

 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 28, 2013, 01:37:04 AM
I actually don't think it is the public business if the Le have cleared or not cleared the boyfriend with DNA.  Of course his DNA would be in the house most likely as they had a relationship. But they did clear him right at the beginning and I cannot believe that every LE involved would have been to dumb to think of that . I believe he was cleared other ways as mentioned perhaps he was proven to be thousands of miles away for all we know . But I do not believe both Orangeville and OPP are all stupid people which they would have to be if it never entered their minds so if they did not DNA him they had no reason to I believe.   It is unfair to judge and execute some one with out proof in my opinion. Lets give the Le a bit of credit for having some common sense among two different forces for goodness sake I think.  Perhaps poor police management I can believe since we now see there is a disruption on the Orangeville force but the opp were also involved in this case as I recall. I would have rather seen them run DNA on all the males who knew or worked or were close to Sonia and may have had better results than a wild goose chase of DNA collections but who knows.  The truly sad thing is we hear not a work from the LE on this now or even an update from the local papers. No doubt this has fallen between the cracks now I believe.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on December 28, 2013, 07:45:33 AM
Regarding this investigation, I tend to think like you, Have faith...BUT....the DNA samples are given voluntarily....what if BF refused to supply his sample?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 28, 2013, 12:40:08 PM
That is the kicker jobo. It was totally voluntary and we do not know who was asked and who complied. Add in lawyers and out of country citizenship and you have a much more complex situation to deal with. 

When a case has gone unsolved for a considerable period of time, investigators often have to return to the beginning and start over looking for someone who got through the net. You have to follow procedure and protocols uniformly and universally with no exceptions.You have to follow wherever that leads if you are to have any chance of success in a cold case. You have to return and make sure each and ever lead was tested and accounted for. We know the ex bf was cleared by other means prior any dna testing and prior the possibility of dna results from individual testing even being available. We can assume all we want and some people will always give LE all the benefit of the doubt but that is not what its all about. LE may be hamstrung by the legalities of the situation and some sort of concocted alibi may be hindering progress. Note that the latest from LE was to offer a reward in hopes someone will come forward to undo someones alibi. Why is this even necessary if they have dna? Seems someone had initially evaded the net by way of alibi and had either refused to be tested or became unavailable for testing later. We have not heard what is being done with or can be done with the holdouts from dna testing.

Far from LE having to be stupid for this situation to be happening and viable, it is much more complex than it first appears and some deceptional tactics may have been employed for strategic purposes. 

As far as saying this is singling out the bf and judging and executing him without proof, that is ignoring a whole lot of evidence and throwing flames where it need not be. As has been said many times, if the body of any other murdered woman  was found many miles from home at a location almost on the doorstep of her ex bf residence, questions would be asked. You can't ignore or put blinders on to that sort of thing. The circumstance itself generates the suspicion, not the questions. Dna should be sought as much to clear the man as to be able to put that circumstance into context with other possibilities. It is a necessary step to get beyond perceptions generated by circumstance. Nothing personal. Being silent about or not mentioning certain facts does nothing to dispel suspicion and in fact keeps it in place. There are leads that spin off the circumstance either way no matter the results of the testing. As far it not being the public business. In an ideal world, I suppose we could all just trust in and leave it all to LE, never ask for any additional information and maybe even do away with discussion sites like this.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 29, 2013, 07:10:33 PM
It is true, a person can refuse... and if they are no longer in the country, it makes things difficult.

We should recall, that Tracey( Dobbin), the lead investigator who said at one point (and this investigator has been the first one to give replies to general questions to the public), that it is imperative that everything be ready to pass the test of the courts (in different words perhaps), so I think they have a task ahead of them, and they know it.

They, are taking it one step at a time.  Doing background checks, was mentioned, on each individual tested.  They would not say how many more individuals are left to be tested, but they do have their list of names.  Not easy, via website (dating sites) to track down the real person behind their "screen name".  That also takes time and resources, however they continue going forward with it.

In addition, they are also checking a geographical area, all males who reside within it.  They have also checked her employment, prior and after.  ie: swabs and background checks.

Think for a minute, about the monumental task ahead. 

If it comes down to the fact, that after all else fails - who would that leave?

That way, they can say to another jurisdiction that all who knew Sonia or who had lived near to, or who have worked with Sonia have been eliminated.   Thus it is prudent to request from you, although outside our jurisdiction that a request for dna sample be obtained.

In other words, the investigation techniques and results, and possible grounds,  would give a strong point towards another jurisdiction's  cooperation  in anyway that they can.

And if it should ever  lead to that -- then I have confidence that it will be eventually obtained.


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 29, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
Bravo JB. I do not know what the procedure would be to obtain dna from a non cooperative poi even here in this country let alone one on the other side of the pond. No doubt at least as much if not more justification would be required to obtain a dna warrant outside the country. Multiple authorizations are even likely to be required. imo

Its a very protracted drawn out process if that is what is going on. How long is long enough? Do our laws need to be clarified and streamlined to avoid this in the future? Or is there another unseen roadblock? Justice delayed is justice denied. Time ticks on by...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 29, 2013, 10:28:44 PM
Do we citizens need to know of the procedure D1?  They have their ways.

Honestly, they do have their ways. 

We are not talking about Iran, Iraq, or other similar countries.

I  truly don't know, but will leave it at that for now D1.

Yes, this has been dragging on for a very long time, I agree.
The cops will build a very strong case first = then pursue the suspect, and if in another country, then the case will be sent to the appropriate authorities. 

If not voluntarily given, it can be obtained by law, even if it is out of jurisdiction, or by other means, of which we can well imagine.

We just "don't know" what is truly going on behind the scenes, as we speak.



JB











Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on December 30, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
JB and D1  good points to discuss.  LE must know what to do even if the POI is outside our country--perfect example was the Magnotta case and how he was brought back from Germany.  I can't see LE wasting time and money to screen hundreds of people if they have strong thoughts/evidence it is a certain individual.  Hopefully a bit of information will come out that will bring in the tip needed.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on December 30, 2013, 09:50:37 PM
quote jobo:
[Regarding this investigation, I tend to think like you, Have faith...BUT....the DNA samples are given voluntarily....what if BF refused to supply his sample?]

Assuming that the bf had an iron clad alibi--and I mean one beyond something as lame as a person vouching for his whereabouts--I think LE would still ask for a dna sample, a polygraph test and they probably measured his feet and who knows what else.  The one thing that I have learned from these investigations is that a poi who refuses to provide a dna sample is immediately regarded as next to guilty.
If the bf refused to provide a sample, I don't think LE would have allowed him to leave Canada so quickly.
moo.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on December 30, 2013, 11:49:40 PM

Sonia was killed in an extremely violent way.  This was not the actions of a "normal" person.

If Sonia's bf had ever shown signs of jealousy, control or anger issues, or stalking behaviour, he would have been considered a prime suspect by LE.  LE would ask those questions of Sonia's family and friends at first chance.  I have never read anything to suggest that he was a problem or weird, let alone capable of an insane, violent slaughter of his friend.

There is always a background of obvious problems and fights leading up to a domestic or love relationship murder.  I don't see that here, and I do think we would have heard some accusations by now.  MOO


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on December 31, 2013, 01:36:29 AM
All the more reasons for a simple test confirmation. What would we all think and say if we were told this person had never been tested?

Right, you would identify that we have a problem in the system. It takes an informed and active citizenry to ensure that isn't happening. Police don't make the laws, they enforce the law. Its not their place to publicly criticize or request a law be changed. If there is a loophole that needs to be closed, it should be made known and rectified. Silence keeps the problem in place. The public is supposed to play a role in making society better.

I am reminded of Lindsey's mother of Lindsey's law. How hard was it for her to find out years later after her daughters disappearance that no attempt had even been made to match her missing daughter to any of the remains of hundreds of unidentified bodies laying in the bone rooms around the country. How hard was it for her to fathom that it was against the law to have her family dna submitted to test against those remains. How much disbelieve did she experience when Parliament refused to change the law to allow that testing.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3529.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3529.0)

We can assume we live in an ideal country with ideal laws protecting each and every victim but we do need to be vigilant if we are to attain that. .

After years with so much unusual showing up in Sonia's case, questions will arise. We know very little of this one person or his past. We don't need to know as long as there is uniform testing for all. Confirmation of testing for this individual is something that should be desired by all parties. Sonia's family associates and friends have a right to ask for that and should imo.

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 02, 2014, 02:28:20 PM
Quote D1
After years with so much unusual showing up in Sonia's case, questions will arise. We know very little of this one person or his past. We don't need to know as long as there is uniform testing for all. Confirmation of testing for this individual is something that should be desired by all parties. Sonia's family associates and friends have a right to ask for that and should imo. unquote.

I agree!  It took weeks, perhaps months for samples to go through the lab for dna to get results.
Big panic about finding her remains, combing the crime scene, etc. etc.  He was exonerated as being a suspect on day two or three, (long before her body was found) If he was exonerated for whatever reason, there would be no reason to think of checking boot size or collecting dna.



After change in command, from Orangeville to OPP, and evidence coming back from the lab, the cops know what they are doing - and they will carry on
They will not tell us what they are up to - but whoever he is and wherever he is - he just may feel a little "unsettled"

Cops are Patient and they are like Bull Dogs, they never let go.  They follow where the evidence leads them, so they claim.

On a negative note:  who is to say where this will end??


JMO

JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 02, 2014, 07:28:16 PM
I am also very upset with the residence of no 5 Spring Street.  Screams were heard from her townhouse, as reported in the news, but no one could be bothered to pick up the phone and call 911.

Yes, she was known to give candy to the children in the playground, yet that is all that that they knew about her??...... why didn't someone call 911?

Very self cloistered living.

Keeping an eye on the  kids, might be tantamount to families in 5 Spring Street.  But keeping an eye on their neighbour was not part and parcel to the neighbourly secure, or caring,  mindset. Obviously it never existed.

Screams were heard, but ignored.

Very upsetting.

This should be a lesson to every Canadian and every neighbourhood. 


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: soccermom on January 04, 2014, 10:51:12 PM
I agree with you, JB, that we should all take this as a lesson to be involved and active when we see/hear something that is not normal. Apathy is a form of complicity; we need to support each other in taking action and to continue to encourage citizen reporting.

My own thoughts on the person recently discussed here are as follows:
IF her murder was NOT fully random but committed by someone fairly familiar with and to Sonia (and I'm of mixed conviction about this), then I could actually see the location where she was found -- its "coincident" proximity to her bf -- as part of the MO of the crime. That is, the location so close to the bf is at once an effect of, and an explicit message about, the bf's situation. I know some others here have expressed the possibility of a frame-up against the bf; I'm less sure we have engaged the potential psychological motivations beyond staging suspicion. This would fit with my own belief that Sonia's killer was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol or taking unnecessary risks but whose actions demonstrate a cold and on one level "rational" or logical set of decisions -- if we can understand reason and logic at all in the context of such a brutally incomprehensible crime.

Myself, I agree with others who have posted here that LE would have the bf under intense scrutiny and I do trust the processes (including strategic deception) by which LE has publicly cleared him. [Yet I also respect the concern of others and understand that IF we could know if he was tested and cleared by DNA this would answer many queries -- even as I myself am not sure LE actually does have the killer's DNA, as I have articulated already.]

I sometimes fully believe Sonia knew and trusted her attacker; at others I am less certain and suspect she was stalked by someone only peripherally (or less) known to her. For the most part I believe she was surprised and assaulted in her sleep -- but I haven't ruled out the possibility she welcomed someone she assumed to be a friend or safe acquaintance into her home that fateful day. So many potential scenarios! But I do trust LE's declaration (as either authentic and justified or as strategic deception) for people publicly cleared.

I don't mean to harp on about the presence or reliability of DNA evidence, but I recently caught part of a TV special on the american "unabomber" -- Ted Kazinski (spelling?); one of the reasons the FBI didn't link certain mail bombings to each other is because TK would take hairs from public bathroom floors and wind them into the packages. (Apologies if someone has mentioned this example of DNA tampering before; I know we have discussed red herring dna here or on WS before). IF Sonia's attack WAS premeditated (and again, I'm not certain of this myself) it would make sense to me, given my profile of an organized and highly intelligent individual, that there could have been deliberately dropped material as a strategic ruse. Moo.
But: This is my biggest fear in Sonia's case --
the absence of the killer's dna. I really, really hope I am mistaken.


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on January 05, 2014, 02:19:20 PM
I don't think the dna is a ruse.  This was suggested by a poster on this site, and I think this idea took off.....No that person was not you, Soccermom - it was someone else.

They probably have other forensics obtained from the 3 crime scenes, but are not saying..... eg. perhaps fibres from clothing, a button torn from a shirt -- etc.

DNA testing is still ongoing by OPP. Labs are very slow in getting results out, as they are so backed up with dna requests by other police services for many crimes, including rapes.  Tests results take a long time to be returned to the appropriate force.  Sometimes one test will take 45 days, others longer.  At last count 700 were taken in Sonia's case.

Her crime scene at home was bloody.  This tells me that this person is very disorganized - brazen and risky yes, but not an organized killer at all.  As the cops say, he was familiar with Sonia, her townhouse, Orangeville, and the area where he left her body. In my opinion,  at one point, he knew her.

He may have walked over to her place via the back route (behind her townhouse).
saw her put the cat out - waited for her lights to go out - then went in through the back sliding glass doors, and in the dark, made his way to her bedroom. Rape might of been the motive, but it got out of hand.

He even located her car keys in her home, in order to drive her out of there. How would he locate the car keys in the dark townhouse?  Lights would of had to be turned on at some point.

 He may even have known a member of her family, and that is why he took the risks to remove her - or he has family living close by - and had to take the risk to remove her, so that they wouldn't see what happened to Sonia. Sick reasoning in taking that risk.  He should have left her there, if it were not for the thought that perhaps cops finding her body in her townhouse, may have a direct link to him. Terrified of any association between Sonia and himself. 
Neither do I think this was planned. 

Her body was not buried, it was thrown a few yards in some bushes and rushes off of the road. This is not clear thinking - to my mind.  It was sheer panic that drove him to take these risks.  In fact, I believe he didn't even consider the risks that he was taking at the time.
 
It was sheer luck that gave him time until her remains were found Sept 5th, by a person walking their dog.

He did not intend to murder her, he may be intelligent, but he was panicky at the time, and so far very lucky that he has not been caught.

If interviewed at any point in time, he may have had an alibi that appeared to be solid.
Perhaps the $50,000 reward may loosen some lips.  Because he will never turn himself in.

The longer this goes on, the more confident he will feel that he "got away with it". No doubt from time to time, it will cross his mind as to what happened that night, and give him a feeling of anxiety - but not enough to affect his behaviour in his everyday life. 

Just my opinion.

jb

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on January 05, 2014, 03:05:50 PM
I don't think that the dna evidence is a ruse either.  The fact that LE even considered that an Orillia rapist might be linked to Sonia's murder suggests that she was sexually attacked, and that they have dna evidence.  (Sonia had also worked as a summer camp nurse near Orillia).

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/04/link-between-sex-attack-and-varachin-murder (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/04/link-between-sex-attack-and-varachin-murder)





Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on January 06, 2014, 07:41:22 PM
Good point(s).
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 09, 2014, 11:12:08 AM
Just a side note from the L. Magnotta case in regard the process.

Quote
But a Crown witness has testified there is no way to compel foreign citizens to testify in Canada and no recourse should they agree to testify and simply not show up

Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/luka-magnotta-case-judge-rules-crown-can-go-get-evidence-in-europe-1.1675185#ixzz2sqO7khbB (http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/luka-magnotta-case-judge-rules-crown-can-go-get-evidence-in-europe-1.1675185#ixzz2sqO7khbB)

The basis by which a court order can be obtained is likely far less certain for any other than it was for Magnotta.

Whether something like this was even attempted or not for Sonia is unknown. We hear rumblings of discontent and questioning of the Orangeville Police board. Perhaps questions are being asked about Sonia behind the scenes?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 09, 2014, 07:45:16 PM
Quote from article:

“We want to get all the evidence that is available and in this situation the evidence and the witnesses were outside of the country in France and in Germany,” said Jean-Pascal Boucher, who represents the prosecution. unquote.

This has to do with evidence obtained and witnesses in foreign countries, not the perpetrator (Magnotta)
Foreign witnesses are not compelled to come to Canada to testify.  That's how I read it.

I recently saw a program (Investigative Discovery) where a murder was committed in Great Britain, the perp was from Holland. They had their suspicion only and required dna from the individual who was Dutch and had fled to his homeland.

Scotland Yard contacted the Dutch authorities, and the Dutch authorities followed the perp around and obtained his dna from a cigarette butt, they flew it to GB and the rest is history, as they say.

From that, I got the impression that most countries do cooperate with each other. 

jb

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 10, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
It was more the process that I was wishing to point out. It did take a judge to authorize the action. It was not just automatic or something the Police alone could do one detachment /department to another.

Quote
MONTREAL -- A Quebec judge presiding over the case of alleged killer Luka Rocco Magnotta has granted an order that evidence be collected in France and Germany.

Superior Court Justice Guy Cournoyer ruled today in favour of a Crown motion presented Thursday.

Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/luka-magnotta-case-judge-rules-crown-can-go-get-evidence-in-europe-1.1675185#ixzz2swRtcJjy

Obviously the Police will have some explaining to do if seeking an order to obtain dna now. The previous early clearance could hamper the justification to obtain additional evidence.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 11, 2014, 06:02:19 PM
quote D1 "The previous early clearance could hamper the justification to obtain additional evidence." unquote.
Ah,  now I see what you meant.  Good point!!

There would have to be a very good reason to legally  obtain one, as at the moment it is voluntary.

However in the case of the Dutchman mentioned, it was obtained surreptitiously by Dutch Police as requested by Scotland Yard.
No warrant for legal dna.

JB




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 14, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
Gosh, a $50,00 reward has been offered on another case by the OPP.

http://www.orangeville.com/news-story/4368679-opp-offer-50-000-reward-to-solve-caledon-homicide/

Perhaps these rewards are offered as a last hope. Perhaps there are no suspects or persons of interest in Sonia's case.
Scary thought!!

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 15, 2014, 10:44:03 AM
http://www.orangeville.com/news-story/4367573-suspected-internet-relationship-turns-violent/

Feb 13, 2014   | 
Suspected Internet relationship turns violent



Internet dating

Police remind residents to be cautious when it comes to online dating.

     
Orangeville Banner

A suspected Internet relationship resulted in a 41-year-old man arrested and charged.

On Monday (Feb. 10), a 32-year-old woman called police asking for assistance in removing a man from her home.

Further investigation by police resulted in the arrest of a man on the grounds of violence.

Marcus Vourinen was arrested and charged with two counts of assault, two counts of uttering threats to cause death and possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose.

Police removed eight knives, two machetes, a police-style expandable baton and an air-soft BB gun from the residence.

According to police, the accused male had several relationships with different women in British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario using the name Markus Fjall.

Police believe the male used an Internet dating website to meet women, then live off them for various periods of time.

Police are warning residents to exercise caution when meeting people online.

“Although many people continue to have successful experiences meeting people through such services, dating websites can also include people waiting to target vulnerable victims for negative purposes”, explained Const. Scott Davis. “Always take the time to conduct as much research as you can before taking online relationships offline.”
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on February 15, 2014, 08:26:13 PM
I wonder if he was up in the area for the snowmobile retreats. I recall that Penny went missing the day the event finished in Wasaga Beach. I've often wondered about that. If they plan a retreat, plan to meet ladies or bump into them. Perhaps a little online data knowing they are headed that way, gives them a place to stay. Just wondering about the logistics of why he was in the area, especially when he seems to travel , online date and then move on.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 17, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
Interesting the coincidence of the "event". I often think that this is the sort of coincidence that can lead to bigger things. On its own it doesn't mean much but if followed can become the link that ties things together. Serial killers usually do much more in the way of planning and deception that the one offs. They often seek a plausible excuse for travelling different areas where they can show up in an anonymous fashion disguised as just one of the many new strange faces in the crowd. Couple that with a fictitious dating profile and a phony email and IPA and you could have the necessary requirements for someone of that ilk to operate in. Many of the travelling serial killers moved along immediately after a murder. The last day of an event fits more so than the first in this regard. Note this fellow Markus has the same first name as the owner admin of plenty of fish dating site. Who knows where links and ties will be found til someone follows all the leads. It seems that this is likely to happen now. Perhaps a call to alert the investigating officer to watch for anything along that line?

In regard Sonia, given the location this person was found I am sure he will be checked out very closely for any connections. It does sound that he was a leech, a user of women but it also sounds like his past victims survived him.

Interesting potential in many ways I may add. An old song came to mind while reading the warnings in the internet dating articles. Remember "if you like pena coladas getting caught in the rain'?  Well in this song it led to a rekindling of love between two people in a relationship after the woman had written a personal add seeking love. Her partner responded and they unknowingly met up with each other for a clandestine meeting.
lyrics-
http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-like-pina-coladas-lyrics-jimmy-buffett.html (http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-like-pina-coladas-lyrics-jimmy-buffett.html)

OK, they laughed and fell in love again in the song, I didn't know you liked that sort of thing bla bla bla.. In reality, someones partner was lured into demonstrably showing their  intent to committ an infidelity to the other and to meet at a location where no one else would know. Perfect setup for a very devious partner.. It has been noted that Sonia disappeared most of the day for reasons unknown prior her murder that nite. There may well have been some connection.

In Sonia's case, Police have zeroed in on the general vicinity for dna collection etc. If there was an internet dating profile and IP address of interest in regard Sonia, it appears it had originated in the same vicinity.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 17, 2014, 07:30:12 PM
Markus is Finnish/ http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://m.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/2014021218031692_ul.shtml&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMarkus%2BFjall.%26biw%3D1093%26bih%3D422

Had to use Translate.

Finnish Tricks localized to Canada see picture of him in link.
 Wednesday 12/02/2014 at 06:00

Glad he was caught!!

International warrants have been eräjuontaja Markus Vuorinen has continued to cheating women in Canada.

Kun maa on alkanut jossain polttaa alla, Vuorinen alias Fjall on siirtynyt toiselle paikkakunnalle uuden uhrin luo.

 When a country has begun to burn some under the alias fjäll Vuorinen has moved to another location creates a new victim.

  Evening magazine reports that have been revealed so far, at least half a dozen women whom the wilderness and coping special trainer Markus presented itself fjäll has managed to fool across the pond in the back.

 - Markus was extremely convincing when he told of his life and work.  He opened a heartbreakingly how his wife had died of cancer, says a resident of Caroline, Alberta.

 When a country has begun to burn some under the alias fjäll Vuorinen has moved to another location creates a new victim.

 Read more suomalaishuijarin activities in Wednesday's Evening magazine and digital magazine.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 23, 2014, 09:02:26 PM
Interesting to note that he was in BC. I wonder if Sonia ever met him. Skiing would be a topic and interest that they would share. And------he used dating sites.

If he was living in O'ville at the time of his arrest, I wonder how long he had been living there??
Keeping in mind that her killer knew the area, was familiar with Sonia and her townhouse...........

To quote D1
"In Sonia's case, Police have zeroed in on the general vicinity for dna collection etc. If there was an internet dating profile and IP address of interest in regard Sonia, it appears it had originated in the same vicinity" unquote.


A little dna testing on HIM wouldn't hurt.


JB

Here is an article from the Orangeville Citizen - not to be confused with the Orangeville Banner.
http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2014-02-13/Local_News/Internet_relationship_leads_to_criminal_charges.html

This creep is up for bail, and I hope it is denied.  For sure he will skip.  And I fear for the woman who had him arrested.

I DON'T THINK HE WAS IN O'VILLE IN 2010.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 24, 2014, 09:51:25 AM
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014021518042844_uu.shtml

I used the Translate button, but we can get the jist of it.  In my research, he belonged to many other sites other than dating sites.
HE HAS BEEN WANTED IN FINLAND, AND HAS BEEN RUNNING FROM THE LAW FOR QUITE SOMETIME.

Here is the translation.

Women scams and charged with assault with Markus Vuorinen will remain in jail at least in Canada over the weekend.

Vuorinen, was arrested on Monday after a 32-year-old woman contacted police to a violent man out of his apartment.

Evening magazine reports that it was one of the many cheater presenter of the female victims. Vuorinen had moved recently to the woman.

Upon arriving at the police revealed that the mountains had reason to believe violent crimes.

Ontario district court did not order Vuorinen bail on Thursday yet, but postponed the case to next week.

- At least until he's there to catch you, Officer Scott Davis said Iltalehti session.

Mountains Orangevillessä accused of assaulting a woman at least two, two death threats and possession of a dangerous object.

Orange Ville, the police seized arrest Vuorinen, including eight in possession of a knife, two long jungle knife and teleskooppipampun.


Wriggled käräjiä

Markus Vuorinen has been running for several years in Canada assaults that are still waiting for him to Finland. It is about his former naisystäviinsä violence against.

Sella mountain began in March to burn under the feet after the Evening Journal in the autumn of 2010 revealed his widely lauded erätaitonsa and military background in a complete sham. Vuorinen, hosted and co-hosted the TV series The laws of nature, in which he took eräoloihin celebrities to teach them survival skills.

In the same context, it was revealed that Vuorinen järjestään advantage of the large number of women.


Lapland District Court has had to cancel the session as early as seven times because of the mountains has not been challenged. The indicted commit the offenses took place in the summer of 2009, so they will expire next summer. The transmission of the challenge is already busy.

The district court judge Anu Hill on Wednesday, could not yet say how Vuorinen's case is now to be done. The new process date is not yet fixed.

RISTO kingdom risto.kunnas @ iltalehti.fi
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on February 24, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
I don't think there is any fear of this guy slipping past dna testing given his track record including violent crimes against women.  He seems to have been one of those who had to move constantly to keep one step ahead of the law. He left a trail of victims behind him that makes up a diary and calendar that will no doubt be scrutinized for additional crimes. I assume he has likely been exonerated for Sonia's murder but the provisions put in place for dna testing due Sonia may be of benefit to other victims. jmo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 24, 2014, 08:02:58 PM
Marcus Vourinen  alias Markus Faijal


He is wanted in Finland, International Warrants have been out for him since 2009. 

How and the heck did he get over here?  On a Finnish blog (after using the translation button on my part), one poster said that Markus didn't even have a passport.  He left behind a pile of unpaid bills, MULTIPLE SCAMS and a SEVERLY BEATEN GIRL FRIEND.

How did he get into our country?  He started out in BC.

What was up with our RCMP, do they not look at International Warrants?

I hope that the Orangeville Police are aware of these warrants and do something about it. Some sophistication in policing is required here. Let's hope they are up to it. If a judge lets him out on bail, I truly fear for the woman he had been living with. 

She called the police on him, and since it is obvious he lacks anger control, this may not be the end of it.

His arsenal of weapons, including knives, and  a police baton, could have done a  lot of damage to this  woman not to mention the fact that he could of killed her.

My thoughts are with her, and I hope she remains safe.

Should he not be deported at some point?? Or will the judge let him out on bail enabling him to skip town and  hunt down  another unsuspecting LONELY HEART??

WE DO NOT WANT HIM IN OUR COUNTRY ----  HE IS DANGEROUS.



jb

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on February 24, 2014, 08:51:11 PM
Thankfully, the O'ville Police arrested him, and they did put a warning to  women regarding dating websites.

Kudos to them for that!!

 They walked into what could of been a very dangerous situation, and kudos to them for that as well.!! A JOB WELL DONE!!

From reading the article, it was the OPS who made it clear that he has been in other provinces.
I hope they are aware of the International Warrant sent out on him in 2009.

A JOB WELL DONE!!

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on February 24, 2014, 11:58:43 PM
I googled his name and a couple of articles from Ont and this website came up but when you google the alias (am assuming since name is not common here) he has a profile on ALLTRAILS and lists Coldstream BC as his location.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on April 01, 2014, 09:18:18 AM
Hello to everyone.  I'm new to this website... I've never posted before but I've spent quite a few nights slogging through each and every post focussed on Sonia Varaschin and her terrible demise.  I have to say, there are some posters who seem incredibly intelligent and I am blown away by the level of concern people have towards finding justice for poor Sonia and her family.  This public forum is a great way for all of us to stay connected and express ourselves in safe and positive manner.  No doubt, I sense a great deal of frustration at the slow-paced investigation and lack of information coming from investigators and we are all wondering why an arrest has not been made yet.  I write now on this forum as someone who is very close to this investigation.  It has been many years since that terrible day and up until now I have tried to maintain a degree of silence.  Safety issues prevent me from posting my real name... and I have always assured investigators that I would never say or do anything to compromise this investigation or cause Sonia's family any pain or grief on top of what they are already dealing with.  I doubt very much that any information I have is anything spectacular or is going to make any difference in solving this terrible crime but I have a deep respect for all the men and women who are working very hard to bring some closure to Sonia's family.  One thing that has impressed me about this site is that if one has a theory to bring to light about this case, others are sure to point out that you'd better have some evidence to back up your claims.  Having said that, I really want to express how disappointed I was when some facts about certain crime scenes and witnesses were expressed as absolute fact when really nothing was further from the truth.  Some posts were extremely damaging, personally, and caused me great upset.  I realize we all want this case solved as quickly as possible and it  become very apparent that Sonia touched all of us in a way that hit very close to home.  It's not fair that her life should come under such a degree of intense focus when the person who took this beautiful soul from us walks free.  She was one of us.  Trying to deal with a tough job.  Looking for love.  Getting along with the neighbours.  Who hasn't come home crying from a bad day at work?  Trying to get a good night's rest.  All these things we share in common.  But I digress...   I just want to remind people... you weren't there that day.  You didn't see what I saw.  You weren't in the police station.  Everyone connected to this case is suffering.  I ask only that you post your thoughts with sensitivity and not simply make assumptions that cut deeply.  Someday the truth will come out.  Keep Sonia in your hearts and if you think you know something that will break the case then I urge you to contact police.  Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on April 01, 2014, 12:43:35 PM
Thank you for your candid response to this thread on Sonia's case. Also welcome to Unsovled Canada, Lily. :)

If there are posts that are hurtful and untrue about Sonia, you can contact the Admin Debbiec, or ... at the bottom of each post are click on boxes and one says report to Moderator. There you can leave a message as to why you are reporting. That is okay to do where you see errors. :)

In all cases, the general public doesn't ever have anywhere near the evidence and information the police do, so there is a lot of guesswork being done. IMO and in what I believe in, it's far better that someone in the know or close to the case can put those theories/ideas/ etc to rest. As new people come on the site and read errors and believe them, well it takes conversations too far out of line.

Thank you for your valuable input. I too have at times gone out on a limb with theories that have turned out to be far from what acutally happened and I do appreciate being set straight. I'm sure others will agree with me. So please don't be shy and please let Admin know where the errors are. Thank you.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on April 01, 2014, 12:56:48 PM

Welcome to UC lily17.  Thank you for sharing.

I think that if you privately ask Debbiec to be checked as a "verified insider" then any errors re crime scenes etc. can be noted.  Most of our info comes from Police bulletins and the media.  The media can get facts wrong. 

it would help us to know what errors have been made, if you could do so without exposing your identity.  I am sorry that you have been upset and feel personally damaged by some remarks or speculation. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 01, 2014, 01:21:55 PM
lily17. Thank you for your post.  In reading it, considering that Safety is an issue, I admire your courage.

  In your readings of this thread on Sonia, you will note that we have been loyal to Sonia (mindful of her image), and have tried to be sensitive to her family.  Sensitivity is not always accomplished, when we talk about murder.
If your feelings have been hurt in any way, then apologies are in order.

We have been posting all of the articles that we can find, including any facebook links, as well as her volunteer work, along with the monies raised for a bursary in nursing.  We have posted the outcome as to who won the bursary --- and on and on it goes.  We have been doing this, for four long years.
 
It still remains unsolved

- I wish you had come onto this site earlier, to correct us where possible, however I understand why you could not - as you mentioned in your post for Safety purposes, along with your promises made  and I can highly appreciate that. Bless you for posting on here. I think it is a little late to go back and "correct" things at this point in time though, as has been suggested  since- the sheer volume of postings would not make it reasonable.

You are right when you said - and I quote:  It's not fair that her life should come under such a degree of intense focus when the person who took this beautiful soul from us walks free.  She was one of us.  Trying to deal with a tough job.  Looking for love.  Getting along with the neighbours.  Who hasn't come home crying from a bad day at work?  Trying to get a good night's rest.  All these things we share in common. unquote.

The fact that she was like us, dealing with a tough job, looking for love, getting along with neighbours and having bad days - makes it all the more difficult.   Who wanted to hurt her? Sonia of all people.

The longer it takes, the more difficult it is to catch him.....In fact all the while I believed that they were getting closer with each day that passes in making an arrest.  Now they have posted a $50,000 reward for the big tip. Does this mean that they have hit a dead end?  That they have exhausted their leads?
Let us hope that the reward offer will pay off.

Note: http://www.opp.ca/ecms/index.php?id=182#UC

snipped

OPP Rewards


We need your assistance in solving these crimes.

File Number Name Category
13-04 Van Sanh TIEU
 OPP Reward
13-03 Sonia VARASCHIN
 OPP Reward
13-02 Anthony Samuel MANDAMIN
 OPP Reward

13-01 Donna Jean AWCOCK

JB: modified to add OPP reward
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on April 01, 2014, 09:45:16 PM
lily17, welcome to the UC site. Thank you, very kindly, for your eloquent plea. But, also I am very sorry for your loss. This must be a very difficult situation for you to be in. To have lost someone close so tragically, the media scrutiny, sleuth's thoughts, and all. I think and hope, overall, you will know that we all have something in common - we care about Sonia and her family/friends, even if we never met. Some of us are connected to other cases on the site, and that too brings a feeling of not being alone and common feelings in our experiences since our loss. We can relate to the feelings you have expressed.

I, like you, have been amazed at the caring, and the thought that the site's members contribute. Oddly, through the years I've even been thankful for those that have a theory that may be a bit off. They let me learn more about angles to check, items to mention to the investigator, and we come in contact with people that knew our loved ones and share their thoughts, or their fears, or oddities that may have happened around the time of the occurrence. For that I've been appreciative. They care.

I hope you feel at home here, and join in when, and if, you can. We appreciate your input. Thank you, for caring to share. Again, sorry for your loss.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 01, 2014, 11:48:50 PM
Dear Lily: thank you for joining us. There is no question that people say stupid things at times on forums like these, and that these thoughts and ideas can be hurtful to the real people that we know very little or nothing about. I hope it is some consolation that everyone cares a great deal and we all very badly want justice for Sonia. If a forum like this can be of any use, maybe you can suggest the directions that people should continue to explore and the ideas that are helpful?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on April 02, 2014, 05:50:20 AM
Thank you all for your kind responses.  I was afraid my post would generate some negative comments but I see everyone is very supportive.  Just a quick note... in no way am I personally connected to Sonia and her family.  In fact... I never met her.  I am just an unlikely witness who is trying to make sense of a terrible situation that has deeply affected me and my family.  All I can say is I never knew Sonia in life.  I wish I had.  She sounds like an amazing woman an I pray for an arrest soon.  I will try and post what I can at a later date.  Bless all of you.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on April 02, 2014, 03:37:54 PM
lily17, welcome to our site. I can't imagine how you were upset by comments. I know most people try to solve crimes on here and we surely do walk lightly and try to put scenarios out there. There are police depts that do come onto some of these threads to see if there is any information they could use. Many times we have expressed deepest prayers and sympathy for family and friends in Sonia's death. Still we are always thinking and wondering why nobody has been a suspect in this murder. There are members here also that have had a relative or a family member that was murdered or missing. So we definitely try to comment and make helpful comments and suggestions related to all threads on here. Once again, welcome to our forum. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 03, 2014, 04:44:53 PM
Refer post #661, and ensuing discussion on Marcus Vourinen  alias Markus Faijal

This was featured a few days ago on the Fifth Estate. He was not in Orangville at the time of Sonia's murder.
However, he was a creep on dating sites.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/markus-vuorinen-former-finnish-tv-host-accused-of-preying-on-canadian-women-1.2588860

Read full story on above link.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: leonagleant on April 04, 2014, 11:58:27 PM
That's a great story - "hide behind the internet" indeed!

Now, back to Sonia...
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 10, 2014, 01:46:46 PM
In regard any false factual information that may have been posted on here, I echo others in that it should be and we would like it to be corrected. It is the truth of the detail that guides perceptions. If the facts are off so can go the other. Its not just here in Sonia's case but in many others where so very little information is being released to the public. We are hamstrung by that. Early on in an investigation, just as much information as is deemed necesary is released in order to further an investigation. As time goes by with no results, doubts and frustration begin to creep in. With no new information forth coming, people are left to wonder if it will ever be solved. By the time cold case status seems to have enveloped any investigation more questions than answers arise. We are left to question what little we think we know.

Its a long ways between the start of an investigation such as this and to where investigations such as Jacqueline English and Donna Awcock have progressed. Many many years later they are still hamstrung by the lack of information and official cooperation and are making much more progress independantly. There is a huge gulf in between where we are here and where that becomes the only option left. It happens slowly that perceptions shift as more and more private information becomes known. Both the English and Awcock families are having to battle the authorities decades later. Policing is notoriously secretive whether for valid reasons or not, its a blanket indescriminate policy. There is hope that with an ever more educated population aware and alert to problems in policing budgetary and otherwise, that a new model of policing will emerge for cases such as this where any chance for resolution by standard procedure seems to be slipping away.

For Lilly I can understand the fear and reluctance but the mere fact that she felt compelled to post at all is a sign of hope that others may also be having second thoughts on the silence enveloping this investigation. Sure some things need to be held back but anything that can help now is of more importance than saving it for a time 40 years from now as in the example Jacqueline English and others are showing us. IMO Public pressure can pay dividends if properly directed. To be properly directed requires accurate information.

If there are factual errors here that can be corrected I believe it important to consider finding a way to do so. Time does not work in favour of justice nor is it aided by silence.  imo

(added) From Lilly-

Quote
I just want to remind people... you weren't there that day.  You didn't see what I saw.  You weren't in the police station.


Its a tough spot for Lilly or for any others who become inadvertant witnesses to any such crime. There is no substitute for eye witness information when so little else is being provided. But, preserving the integrity of the investigation requires keeping some things quiet. Who can judge where that line needs be drawn without knowing all the details behind the entire story? We mostly leave it to the authorities to decide. There's the quandry. Do you stand by and let what you believe to be false information percolate into public perception or do you speak out to correct it?  When is the appropriate time to do so? By the time 40 years have elapsed in an investigation it is too late. Personal decisions are part of life..
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 13, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
Lilly17  cannot say anything, as this poster may be called as a witness, should the killer ever be caught.
How long that will take, or if it will ever happen is anyone's guess. 

Must  be a hard row for Lilly17 to wait until the killer is caught - as I said, IF ever caught.

Meanwhile Lily17 cannot divulge anything  that may impede any court case should it ever take place,  for all of the above reasons.  It is almost 4 years, yet Lily17 keeps quiet. I admire Lily17 for not divulging anything on this site that may impede this poster as a possible witness'

It must be extremely unsettling in the life of   Lily17 ,as  the investigation drags and drags and drags on. and on and on.

The fact that Sonia has ended up on the OPP's site for reward of $50,00.00 (which is always at the end of the road),  tells me that they have very little, after all of the hype with dna, and boot prints  they  were grasping at straws.

As I said many times, running around and checking dna of 700 men is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
As to the boots?  Very popular by men, and the size is average.

As to the "generic" profile given to the public (after all of the gung ho of profilers meeting in TO for three days)
we come up with something so generic that it is useless.

JB

Someone got away with murder....

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on April 14, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
Thank you all for being so supportive and kind.  Believe me, the decision to post at all on this site was not one made lightly.  In the past week, I have typed out many posts only to erase them.  I guess the burden of silence runs deeper than even I expected.  I suppose too that there is the fear that police are on this site too and most likely would come knocking if they felt I was damaging their investigation.  I believe the information I have is more of a simple "gateway" to anyone claiming to be the one who killed poor Sonia.  Meaning... there are creeps out there who delight in being attached to a crime they had nothing to do with.  It would be easy to weed these guys out very quickly and move on.  So, for that reason, I understand the confusion behind information released to the media and the public.  It's seems very unfair for an innocent bystander to have to abide by this code of silence but how fair is it that the family and friends of Sonia have to lose her so violently and so senselessly? So, in respect to them, I stay silent.  For how long?  Who knows.  As this investigation drags on and on... I have to wonder, do they even have DNA?  My own thoughts cause me to wonder if the killer wasn't connected to Sonia at all... but someone random who noticed her and targeted her without her knowledge.  I have to admit I have walked past her house in an effort to tap into any kind of energy left behind and was stunned to see the many pathways leading through the thick brush beside the complex.  Some paths led out to Tim Hortons.  Some paths took me out to Townline.  This guy could have just been walking to get a coffee and spotted Sonia going about her business.  How is DNA going to find someone like this?  Interestingly... a friend of mine who used to live in the same complex told me the owners of the complex were trying to get the township to cough up some money to get those pathways fenced off to keep people from cutting through there.  Hmmm... makes you wonder.  So, as it stands now, I will try and post information that would be easily be found in the news or in the community or my own personal thoughts as someone as much in the dark as anyone here.  Having talked to investigators countless times...I'm of similar mind as many of you.  The police take and take and never give anything back.  I know they are still working very hard to find Sonia's killer but if they want us to help they need to release more information... one small tidbit that won't compromise the case but could trigger an 'ah hah' moment in someone's mind.  My other thought is that they know who did this crime and just don't have enough evidence to make an arrest.  That happens a lot, I think.  So...I hope this helps.  Bless all of you.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on April 14, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Most of us would love to know for a FACT if the ex was cleared by DNA...the police said he was cleared but do not go as far as saying by DNA.  Wish they had said.

On To Catch a Killer last Saturday night they said something that made me think of Sonia.....they said if a perp removes the victim after killing them in their home, they usually do it because they are known to the victim and are trying distance themselves from that familiarity.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 14, 2014, 10:51:09 PM
There are many sorts of things of an evidentiary nature a person can witness. Not all are in the same category. This is a specific sort -

Lily-
 
Quote
I believe the information I have is more of a simple "gateway" to anyone claiming to be the one who killed poor Sonia.  Meaning... there are creeps out there who delight in being attached to a crime they had nothing to do with.  It would be easy to weed these guys out very quickly and move on.

If the information being spoken of has more value for the reason stated than as information that would help to identify and catch the perp, silence is warranted.

Sometimes the information is of value both ways and it is a tough call. What was justifiable during the initial phase of an investigation may not be so important when it becomes a cold case. Right now there is no official time period where one ends and the other begins and there seems to be no change in tactics for even a long  cold case. More and more information is being with held in more and more cases. It wasn't always like that. I can understand the use of hold back information in certain instances but if they really have dna it just becomes another questionable tactic. For what reason?  DNA is conclusive. If they have any idea at all, just test the poi, no need for all the games. If they don't, then the dna testing was a ruse for some reason perhaps to generate a confession and thus the hold back info would be required. Whichever was the case, it has not paid off and it doesn't sit well.

 The boots on the ground, the grunts doing the actual work in law enforcement are for the most part very good honest dedicated people. They are the ones we mostly meet in circumstance such as this. They do not call the shots or the direction of an investigation. They follow orders. Silence to not compromise an investigation a key part of their job. Not evaluation. That is up to higher ups and specialized departments that don't seem to believe in any re evaluation once a course has been set. Perhaps due budgetary restraints, perhaps for promotional reasons, perhaps manpower, perhaps just an antiquated policy that has not been addressed. 

Lily-
Quote
The police take and take and never give anything back.  I know they are still working very hard to find Sonia's killer but if they want us to help they need to release more information... one small tidbit that won't compromise the case but could trigger an 'ah hah' moment in someone's mind.

Thanks for what you sent and I completely agree Lily, there must be something more that could be released that could cause a moment of recollection in someones mind. The chances of that happening are way more likely with a somewhat fresh memory. Time passes memories fade..
 

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 16, 2014, 01:20:16 PM
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/big-new-reward-in-orangeville-murder-investigation-1.1430097

This includes a video, with written report below.

Big new reward in Orangeville murder investigation

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 24, 2014, 07:29:47 PM
God forbid, but I feel that we have been led "down the garden path" in this whole investigation :o

We will wait and see what law enforcement has to say to the public on this investigation in August of 2014.

Soothing us over the years, with small bits of info, that "each day they are getting closer to an arrest",  we have accepted in the past.  ::)

 Okay so they use the usual key words, that they "can't say anything" as this is still under investigation".  We have heard that time and time again - even on what we the public would call Cold Cases - up to 20 years unsolved for pete's sake.

Okay, but when a deceased person ends up on the $50,000 reward list, that spells trouble!!


Jellybean.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on April 24, 2014, 08:55:28 PM

With all the comments about the importance of LE releasing meaningful information to the public--I happened to notice in the above link, that the OPP lead case manager for Sonia's file is Det. Insp. Tracey Dobbin.

Although I can't question Dobbin's dedication to Sonia's case, we can look at her mind set, which speaks for the OPP.  She is the person who filed a formal complaint to  London Police about their officer, Dr. Mike Arntfield.  He is the brave cop who is trying to solve the horrendous historical London murders, and has the series To Catch A Killer.  She complained that "He has highjacked our case" re Jackie English.  We all know that the London cases have remained unsolved, and ignored for four decades, and we know that the families have been given no information by the OPP for the same amount of time.  Sonia's parents are being treated the same way, as noted in the same article.

Based on this, I don't see any hope of LE releasing any useful information for public assistance.  They seem to think that all information is worthy of "hold back" status.  I wonder how well that is working for them?


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
A lot of posturing and PR comes from LE in some of these cases. If one reads between the lines in the above article-

Quote
Investigators continue to receive tips on the case on a weekly basis and hope anyone with information or suspicions linked to Varaschin's killing will contact them, despite the time that has lapsed since her death, says Dobbin. And while it may appear that the search for Varaschin's killer is moving slowly, a long investigation allows police to build an extremely solid case, she says.

One would conclude that they know who the perp is. Otherwise why say that? You need a suspect to build a case. Why not just dna test him if they have one? Amber Kirwan's killer got convicted on very little else but that.

I think Lily gave us some important insight. Sonia's friend has expressed her confusion and notes Sonia's parents plight. The Police at times seem to just highjack a case to contain the information. Ask Jackie English's family. It is long overdue for some sort of reform. A civilian oversight committee?

Quote
Police have said the person responsible for the crime likely knew Varaschin and the local area. But Bojic continues to be baffled by the case. Meanwhile, Varaschin's parents, although aware that police continue to work on their daughter's file, have been finding it hard to deal with the lack of public information, says Bojic.

The current system adds to the survivors trauma.
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on April 25, 2014, 06:24:16 PM
Lily17, my thoughts are with you related to Sonia's death. However, we must keep talking as much as we can on this case. The more we keep commenting, the more the killer is going to feel very uneasy. Usually they think they have gotten away with the perfect crime. I know we have said we felt the police were not doing what they should or as much as they should, however they possibly are. In an investigation such as this, it is a very high profile case and if the inital investigation was not done properly, such as F prints, forensics, DNA samples and every little clue right down to hair found in Sonia's vehicle and anything of the smallest clue, then it could have jeopardized the investiation. For some time I have felt that there is a possibility that the police feel in they know who committed this crime, but do not have the piece of the puzzle to arrest them. I am leaning towards that theory. They maybe the one person they don't have anything to arrest him. Sometimes DNA is not enough, you have to have more than that, especially if there was a reason there DNA could have been in her car or apt. Maybe we have been too hard on the police. But my thoughts and prayers go to investigators and relatives and friends of this lady, it has to be very disheartening for all this time gone by and nobody arrested. :o :o :o :o :o 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Concerned on April 25, 2014, 07:23:37 PM
Does anybody know what the criteria is for information to be held back. And, has it ever been studied how many cases go unsolved due to that tactic. The public is very savvy nowadays especially with the onset of social media. They can get descriptions and nuances shared to the point that someone might remember something and can lead to the clues and information being shared. But, the old tried and true hold everything back so they can weed out who knows something just seems damaging. After one, then two, then three, then....changes in lead investigators then the case is not personal not remembered, new to everyone, and pretty soon nobody in the family has anyone really to talk to that cared like those that put no stops out in the beginning. It is really quite sad. Especially if the cases go unsolved for decades.  It not only kills the victim, but it day by day destroys the family as well. The perp really does get away with so much.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2014, 11:40:01 PM
Good questions concerned but with so little information being released no studies and no statistics are possible. I suspect this is something they don't want known. It is the cold cases that really brings the message home. Like the English family fighting forty years later to get past the Police who are virtually holding that investigation hostage. It is obvious to all especially in light of the private investigation that the official tactics have failed, yet the authorities persist to insist that silence is a vital part of preserving the investigation. There is no revaluation going on as time passes. Its all so long ago now justice can't even begin to address the hurt and pain and any time served now by any perp is too little too late. He has had his best years with freedom. Nursing home or jail, whats the difference by then?

Any way back to Sonia, 4th year and counting.. I know we all want to have faith but there comes a time when reality sets in.. Words are just words, its action that counts.

Capeh
Quote
Sometimes DNA is not enough, you have to have more than that, especially if there was a reason there DNA could have been in her car or apt. Maybe we have been too hard on the police.

But then why the necessity for the 700 plus other dna tests if they know who it is but dna is not enough? Seems an awful waste of scant resources or a charade. It holds the family and public at bay believing the Police have a clue and are on the right track. Just give them a little more time.. 5 years enough time? When ?

As far as I know concerned, anything the Police deem protected is, no reason required, no one is there to test the validity of any of it. Personal decisions by nameless faceless paper shufflers who's job is made easy by a blanket policy of silence.

Maybe the Police are too underfunded to do a proper timely job now a days, maybe we need to see more privately funded initiatives? We are all becoming acclimatized to so many cases going unsolved with no means to know why.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 26, 2014, 04:10:09 PM

With all the comments about the importance of LE releasing meaningful information to the public--I happened to notice in the above link, that the OPP lead case manager for Sonia's file is Det. Insp. Tracey Dobbin.

Although I can't question Dobbin's dedication to Sonia's case, we can look at her mind set, which speaks for the OPP.  She is the person who filed a formal complaint to  London Police about their officer, Dr. Mike Arntfield.  He is the brave cop who is trying to solve the horrendous historical London murders, and has the series To Catch A Killer.  She complained that "He has highjacked our case" re Jackie English.  We all know that the London cases have remained unsolved, and ignored for four decades, and we know that the families have been given no information by the OPP for the same amount of time.  Sonia's parents are being treated the same way, as noted in the same article


Is this true? No, I am not questioning you Have Faith.  Did I miss this article?  Could you kindly provide the link? or point me in the right direction.

I have never expressed my concern before, and in a way I wish I had, re the walking on egg shell territory that Dr. Arndtfield had taken when focusing on these cases in London.  I wanted to express my fear, that the police would interfere. Now, it is said that a complaint was laid against this program by the police -- no way of stopping it - once they make their mind up...
After all - they hold the keys to any investigation, and it doesn't matter how old the cases are, they never consider their cases to be cold cases -" they are always under investigation"- which is a tool used by "official policy" of stopping any dabbling in their business.  This is my own personal view -

On Sonia' To quote Jobo

.....they said if a perp removes the victim after killing them in their home, they usually do it because they are known to the victim and are trying distance themselves from that familiarity. unquote:

On anything that I have read, in past crimes - articles from FBI, etc.  It seems to be a fairly constant theme that if -
..... perp removes the victim after killing them in their home, they usually do it because they are known to the victim and are trying distance themselves from that familiarity.

I cannot see a passerby killer taking the opportunity, with her unlocked door,  going to the trouble of removing her from her home. She knew her killer, or was familiar with his face - he was familiar with the townhouse complex, took the time to find her car keys.  Was not into much of a rush!!  Took the time to drive her to the place where he dumped her.  A stranger would never consider it!!  Even we underlings, common citizens are smart enough to come with that conclusion...... right??? And you are right Jobo, we have always figured that one out!!

Oddly, the decision was made to follow dating sites.  I say, it was someone whom we would never suspect and to approach that person for dna testing, is out of the question.  It might of been a long time friend who attended her funeral, or a big shot business man. That is my own personal view.


It is someone of whom the police would never have considered.


Perhaps Dobson may ask herself that question.  Who is the least person to ever be suspected, on that list or to say it another way Who was never considered on the List for dna testing???

Now we do know that geographically, and methodically dna testing has taken place, but ask yourself Inspector Dobson ,whom has been overlooked on your list?

Someone has missed out...on the dna request.   Whom do you think Inspector Dobson,  should be tested??

Look back once again, to her past.

JB






Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on April 26, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
Jellybean,

The London Free Press article in reference to Det. Insp. Dobbin's formal complaint re Dr. Arntfield is linked below.  I copied it in Reply#688 on Jackie English's thread. 

It is stated by the OPP Det. Supt that Det. Insp. Dobbin, and the OPP did not receive the show's research and findings.  This is Dr. Arntfield's response. "Monday, Arntfield said not only did the OPP know of his team’s findings, but also “their initial response was to get their backs up and in the same amount of time it would take to test (the suspect’s) DNA, composed a letter to the chief in London that I was hijacking their case.”


http://www.lfpress.com/2014/03/24/did-tv-show-share-report-with-cops-opp-brass-mum-if-force-investigated-david (http://www.lfpress.com/2014/03/24/did-tv-show-share-report-with-cops-opp-brass-mum-if-force-investigated-david)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2014, 12:14:52 PM
I know hopes were high at one time due the inspector being female but really the position she holds requires compliance with whatever the organization dictates. You don't get to this position male or female without demonstrating and conceding to abide by those dictates.

JB
Quote
Oddly, the decision was made to follow dating sites.  I say, it was someone whom we would never suspect and to approach that person for dna testing, is out of the question.  It might of been a long time friend who attended her funeral, or a big shot business man. That is my own personal view.

news article-
Quote
Police have said the person responsible for the crime likely knew Varaschin and the local area. But Bojic continues to be baffled by the case. Meanwhile, Varaschin's parents, although aware that police continue to work on their daughter's file, have been finding it hard to deal with the lack of public information, says Bojic.

Something is amiss. When a decision is made to follow a course of action for reasons we are not privy to, confusion is the result making it even harder for loved ones to deal with. Maybe more of these cases need to be "highjacked" if there is to be any chance for resolution and justice. With increased disclosure like was provided by the Arntfield team public pressure can be brought to bear which can pay dividends. Policing has stubbornly kept to an outdated mode of information handling imo which needs to be addressed.

You can find earlier examples of cases where this tactic of with holding information has resulted in cases going unsolved for decades.

Similarities in some are quite striking and troubling for future prospects here.

From Melissa Letain- last seen and unsolved since February 13, 1987

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2554.msg108484#msg108484 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2554.msg108484#msg108484)
Quote
The killer was familiar with West Edmonton Mall and the nearby area where Letain was abducted. He may still reside in or near the area.

Profilers believe releasing more than this amount of information may overwhelm anyone in the public who might be able to help.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on April 27, 2014, 02:33:00 PM
I still have a gut feeling that Sonia never knew her killer and that  her murder is somehow connected to the murder of Audrey Gleave and also the attack on Shelley Lowder. Perhaps a SK? The FBI being involved makes me think this.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on April 29, 2014, 10:27:15 AM
It is my belief that Sonia was killed by one man acting alone.  Someone may be covering for him now but the actual crime was done by one person.  Of course, this is simply my thoughts.  I have no hard evidence.  Only what I observed that horrible day 3 and a half years ago.  I believe he came prepared and probably wore gloves.  I can't tell you why I have come to that conclusion and I could be wrong about that too.  I suspect after this monster realized he had killed poor Sonia he went into panic mode but not so much that he couldn't think straight.  Call it organized chaos.  I don't know why he took Sonia out of the house.  Very risky.  Perhaps to buy some time.  If there was no body then the cops couldn't start looking for him.  With so many people out looking for Sonia there would be fewer cops out looking for her killer.  More on my experiences concerning those following days later.  I don't believe the killer knew exactly where he was going to take her... only that he had to find a quiet lonely spot to put her.  He barely drove out of town, got rid of Sonia's body, and had to come back into town to get back home.  He knew there was a camera on the outside of town hall so he chose to use the narrow alley between the convience store and found a dark place to park her car.  Out of sight.  Then he either walked home or to a vehicle.  I believe he simply went home.  Using a vehicle meant he lived some distance away and it would be hard to stalk Sonia on a regular basis.  This is my own theory, not hard fact.  As for this crime being connected to the attack on Shelley... you have to wonder why we are being asked to help find Sonia's killer but not Shelley's attacker?  Other than a composite sketch released years ago... nothing.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on April 29, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
I believe you are right in the ball park on all that lily. Removing Sonia was a very risky thing to do especially in light the killer had to bring her car right back to the general vicinity after wards. He had extreme motivation to want to do so. The dna the Police claim to have was obtained from Sonia's body imo. This was the motivation behind removing her imo. Semen is live for a certain period of time and thus the time of the sexual act can be determined if a body is found relatively quickly. Just as stomach contents and body temperature can be used to determine time of death, semen can be matched to time of death. Buying time allows the semen to detriorate to the point that it can not be used for anything other than for dna identification. This was personal and someone well known to Sonia and thus Police.  This person knew that he would be a poi. Not a real stupid character but someone who knew what he was doing to some extent. Whether he complied with dna testing and had an alibi for having sex with Sonia at an earlier time that day or he has refused testing, we don't know. We do know there is one man who fits all of the prerequisites of the crime but who was cleared by routine questioning early on and then moved out of the country before dna testing began. Someone has an alibi and likely an alibi witness standing in the way of this ever being solved. That witness has not taken the reward offer which says something in itself. I believe that the Police know who the culprit is.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on April 29, 2014, 01:16:47 PM
I also agree with Lily17.  After three and a half years of we posters using various scenarios, I think that Lily's summation fits, or is close to, our views. No everyone's view, but most of them.

I too believe that he lived within the vicinity.  In my opinion,  it was also someone who knew that she no longer worked shift work at the hospital, and knew that she had to be at work Monday a.m. That is why he did not return her car to her garage. So, he  left her car behind the tack shop.  He had hoped that for at least one day it would be believed that she went to work. In my opinion, the car being parked there could appear as though it was a customer to anyone going by.

You bet, he was very familiar with the area around the tack shop! He knew where the camera's were situated, and how to avoid them. In my opinion, he may have parked there many times before.

I agree that he may have worn gloves, or had gloves on his person when he entered Sonia's home.

If he attacked her when she went to bed, he certainly knew the layout and furniture placement of her townhouse.  Not easy stumbling through someone's home in the dark without making noise etc.

I believe that this killing was personal. A stand alone. I believe that he was afraid of her - for some reason, and went into a rage.

There is a video on this site, that shows a pillow case where the material was  twisted on the bottom of it, and the wind (you could see it)
blew it out of view as it went underneath a bush. 

To me it looked like this pillow case was used to put over Sonia's head, and it came off as he was transferring her to her car. 

Covering of a face is often used by a killer who knew their victim.

The drop off area where he left her remains was also familiar to him.  It has been said that there were many other areas even more isolated, and closer to O'ville, where he could of left her, and yet he drove further out and left her within the Beechgrove Side Road area.

Perhaps this spot was used as he could drive by and keep an eye on things, without drawing much attention.

The point is this -- he is still out there, and he is capable of murder.  He may think that he may never do this again, he may think that Sonia was a unique case and that he had no choice but to kill her, but he is very capable of doing this again should similar circumstances arise. (Whatever those circumstances were)


JB
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on April 29, 2014, 07:31:44 PM
In the past I have watched cases on 48 Hours and there are such crimes, where the killer removes the body from the scene of the crime, the residence so to say. A profiler on some of these cases has made this MO as a sign that the killer wants to remove himself or distance himself from the crime. Meaning a possibility that the killer llived in the area of where the victim resided. When the person removes the victim, this definitely is a big clue into what was this killer thinking. Like Lily17 indicated, very risky, very risky indeed. So it was like this person was so wrapped up in this crime that he could have been very high on something, very unusual activity, especially when he drove her vehicle. I believe he calmly walked away. Somebody in Orangeville, I do believe, knows who was out late that night and is covering for someone. A husband, brother, friend or somebody came home that night in a horrible state of array. Also, the person may have been leaving the area soon after. In some way, why would he take her car????? So it makes me think that this person was walking. Moved her car and took her from the crime scene. Absolutely horrendous and possibly a person that nobody would even suspect of murder. That is very scary. Because that person could be living on your street. He maybe married, he may have children, he maybe best friend's with your brother.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on May 01, 2014, 07:43:36 PM

I agree with capeheart--LE usually knows who the killer is, but need more evidence to make an arrest (that will stand up in court)--and LE has worked extremely hard to solve Sonia's case.  They have "blown the budget" on this case, and I commend them for that.  I would never question their dedication in solving this case.  As far as providing more information to the public, I realize that this is not a 40 year old unsolved case, and I have some patience in this regard.

I also agree with jellybean's concern about the significance of a generous reward being offered at this point of time in the investigation. This reward action, based on what I have seen in many cases, is an attempt to pry open closed lips.  Obviously somebody saw this man come home covered in blood, or suspects his behaviour following that night, or has heard rumours about his involvement etc.  I could be totally wrong, but I don't think LE post a reward when they KNOW who the killer is.  Unfortunately, I have read that most rewards go unclaimed.

We have read the FBI profile on the killer.  It is far from an exact science, but is the best description of the characteristics of the unknown perp.  If I recall, the full profile was not shared by LE.  I would like to see the entire profile at this time.  It just might twig something in someone reading it.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on May 01, 2014, 11:23:17 PM
The Police will offer a reward for "testimony" in a situation as this.

I completely understand some people not wanting to criticize or critique whatever the Police are doing in any investigation. In fact it is fairly standard and it is the nicest of people who have the most difficulty in saying or asking anything that may be construed as disrespect. In the previous news reports we can see that Sonia’s parents are that type. Just as I believe Sonia herself was.

The problem they and Sonia’s friends are encountering is that what seems to be going on in the investigation doesn’t make sense to them. Note Sonia’s friends words in the last news report- “baffled”
Quote
Police have said the person responsible for the crime likely knew Varaschin and the local area. But Bojic continues to be baffled by the case. Meanwhile, Varaschin's parents, although aware that police continue to work on their daughter's file, have been finding it hard to deal with the lack of public information, says Bojic.

On one hand you have the Police saying that the killer likely knew Sonia and the areas around the three crime scenes. That should have helped narrow the list to maybe a dozen at most you would think. Instead the Police are investigating dating sites and any male in the area wearing the same size boots as the perp. They have also apparently( if it can be believed,) dna tested some 700 plus individuals thus far at last report. What the Police claim to be doing does not seem to match what the profile suggests.

We have previously discussed a person who on the surface would seem to match all the criteria but who was not tested. Everyone knows that. The case drags on remaining unsolved 4 years now and counting. Some people are just too nice to ask questions, others not so. It is just the truth people want, no disrespect intended unless warranted. There are unanswered questions left hanging that should be addressed. imo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on May 02, 2014, 09:53:42 AM
There has been much debate on this site about someone very close to Sonia who was cleared very early on of her murder and allowed to leave the country without being tested.  I believe this person has a rock solid alibi that completely clears him of any wrong-doing.  During those first early days of the investigation I was able to speak with quite a few journalists and one of them provided me with the info on the where abouts of this person and it is my belief there is no way he could have had any involvement with Sonia's murder.  I think everyone should move on from him and look for the real killer.  Of course... this info could be simply rumour but I believe the cops would never let a suspect leave town if they thought for a moment he could be the culprit.  I think the fact they have collected 700 plus dna samples means they don't believe the killer was personally connected to Sonia.  I have learned from other crime shows that individual dna samples can take months to finally be tested so maybe that's the hold-up?  I think we're so fixated on shows from the US where so much information is broadcast right away that we demand the same.  It's very frustrating.  It appears to me, too, that Sonia's parents are very shy and private and are reluctant to publicly question the investigation.  It might not be what the rest of us would do but it's not our right to disrespect their decisions.  I can't imagine dealing with such grief and being left out of the investigation on top of it.  Maybe the cops need to do a re-enactment of the crime to jog people's memory... we are coming up on the 4 year mark of this crime.  Nothing has worked so far. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on May 02, 2014, 11:20:51 AM
In regard Sonia's parents, they are entitled to and it is completely understandable for them to go along with whatever the Police are doing. No disrespect intended at all in regard them but that does not mean that everyone else has to follow the same path. I recently spoke with an older gentleman who is the father of a missing child. Long cold case now but it never goes away. He too was of the same type who remained silent throughout it all. Very nice man. Even now that has not changed but he had no problem with others questioning what he wouldn't. Maybe even somewhat thankful in a way that someone was even though he couldn't. Just to get to that position takes time.

In regard this person cleared by other means. What you state Lily is possibly true. But, we also see that the latest from LE is a reward offer looking for a witness to come forward. Early on, dna was taken from those closest to Sonia as per the profile. All but one person. It is just due diligence and adhering to procedure that is being questioned aside whatever alibi anyone may seem to have. Loop holes arise where ever and whenever due process is violated. That has apparently happened here.

Its possible that someone could have an alibi at the moment that is holding up due to an alibi witness and by such means has flown under the radar. In other words, he was not suspected at first and thus was allowed to leave the country. Only later due the process of elimination would he have to be reconsidered.

From reward report-
Quote
Later, to narrow their list of suspects, police also asked for voluntary DNA samples from men who either knew Varaschin or came in contact with her before she died.

That sort of collaboration with the public remains an extremely important part of an investigation that has never waned in its intensity, says Ontario Provincial Police Det.-Insp Tracy Dobbin, the lead case manager on Varaschin's file.

This is what the profile indicated and that is what was followed up on initially. It did not payoff. Since then, 700 more tests were performed going out in concentric circles of familiarity. Its been 4 years, that has not paid off. It appears someone has been missed. There is nowhere to move along to from here. It heads off into avenues of diminishing posibilities.

If any person is innocent alibi or not, they shouldn't have any problem being tested. DNA makes or breaks alibi's and charges can be laid against anyone offering a false alibi. When rewards fail to loosen tongues,  other means have to be considered. The enabling girlfriend in the Derren Millard case for example. She now faces charges herself.

If more information were to be released, there is potential for more information to come in while memories are still somewhat fresh. Time is a very important factor. Delays for any reason are counterproductive.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on May 02, 2014, 02:41:21 PM
The last phone call that Sonia took was from her bf at around 11:30 pm on that Sunday nite.  Where did he call from?

The police would know by checking records.  If the call came from another country then that would absolve him definitely.

If a journalist gave out the info that bf was not in the country at the time of the murder, then this journalist should of written that into  his/her article, as it would have stopped any suspicions that the public had towards him of this crime.

In the past, in other cases, the police will often tell the public why the "usual suspect" is not a person of interest - such as, he was not in the country at the time, and that would be the end of it. No such announcement was ever made that he was not a suspect as he was out of country at the time.  It was Tomei who said bf was not a suspect right from the start - no reason given.

The press have been extremely absent in mentioning him - even in the very beginning, with the exception of the first few days of the killing.  Then silence.  Perhaps that is the reason why, as - "he was not in the country." 

Too bad this was not given out in the first place, if this is true. I am not questioning Lily17, however, one would think that a good journalist would verify that info and follow up on it.   Checking with the Airlines would have been easy enough to do.



BF did speak to the police on the Tuesday, or was it the Wednesday?  - I was under the impression that he went to the cop shop and spoke to them in person.  However, it could have been from "another country".  There are a few things in print well after the killing showing him to be in the area.   We know he was at the funeral, and was at her family home, shortly after her body was located. So perhaps he returned from that "out of country trip".  It is possible. In any event, if true,  it was very kind of him to return to show his support to her family and attend the funeral. Airline fares are not cheap! His whereabouts has been blocked from the public's knowledge. There has not been any statement made public about it, either by police, nor by journalists.

The first time I learned that he went back to his country was by way of a simple entry on Sonia's facebook - no mentioning as to when he left.   Surely, one would think the inclusion of  "having left the country prior to the time of the murder", would have been worth mentioning by the poster on fb? Somehow "when he left" was not important to the fb poster.

 Sonia's murder has created more victims than we could ever count. I would not be surprised if the family lives of the detectives on this case has been put on hold - as one example.  Not counting the rap on the door by police  of so many
men to voluntarily give their dna.  Not to mention some townfolk who  still do not feel as safe as they did before this happened, nor possible witnesses.

One brutal killing - changed many, many lives.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on May 02, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
Quote
The press have been extremely absent in mentioning him - even in the very beginning, with the exception of the first few days of the killing.  Then silence.  Perhaps that is the reason why, as - "he was not in the country."


Perhaps the reason the press has been absent in mentioning him is simply because there is nothing to say. It has been said from the beginning that he had an alibi and was not a suspect. Who knows where he was the night of Sonia's murder? Just a few possibilities other than "he was not in the country" (simply a few examples of why police may know someone (anyone) has an airtight alibi) incarcerated, hospitalized, ...etc...etc... I'm not suggesting that Sonia's bf was out of the country, incarcerated, hospitalized or anything else, only that there are many different possibilities when considering that he may really have had an air tight alibi.

It is not known (publicly anyway) if the bf was DNA tested. IMO it has not been clearly stated by which method he was cleared.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on May 02, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
As to the brutal beating of the woman who lived in Mono, I am intentionally excluding her name, there was a composite sketch of a possible person of interest, who was seen in the area.  What ever happened to that sketch?

One would think that it would be plastered all over the towns and other nearby vicinities.  Was it??

Now, if for one nano second, the police believed that this possible person of interest had anything to do with the murder of Sonia, surely there would be an all inclusive drive to locate this person through media blitzes via this sketch.

 Therefore, I assume that the police do not feel that there is any connection to the beating of this lovely lady in Mono and the murder of Sonia. The police at one point did say that the mo was different and the time of day differed greatly.

Which brings me back to the obvious question, how is the investigation proceeding with this vicious and sudden attack on this woman?   Or has it been set aside - deemed as "I dunno".

This brings to the public's concern,  one more very dangerous individual who is roaming freely about. Composite sketch or not.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on May 02, 2014, 10:48:36 PM
Just a couple of points about the untested person. There are no definitive answers as to why the bf was cleared so early on. This was very unusual in itself. It was the news media that reported Police saying within days of the crime that he was cleared by routine questioning. Then nothing since ... not a word.. We can line up and assume whatever we wish either way but this is all we have been given. It could be he had an alibi just as said at the time, it may not have held up later. Or there are other reasons to announce he had been cleared. We don't know.

If it were I being spoken of, I would readily welcome being tested to demonstrate the validity of my innocence. If I were media, I would request more information and update the initial statement provided by Police. Why does any one person get to evade a dna net no one else can? The dna testing was to begin with those closest to Sonia because those were the most probable suspects as per the profile. How does someone at ground zero, as close as you can get to Sonia get away without ever being tested?

If I were the killer, and I came pre-prepared to commit a crime, I may well have prepared an alibi beforehand. DNA testing nullifies the need for talk, conjecture, investigation, or alibi. Strict adherence to proper uniform procedure bar none, closes all loop holes, ensures the integrity of the investigation and promotes faith in Police in general. All of that has been violated here.

Until we hear otherwise, the man closest to Sonia was cleared solely by routine questioning. That is why this is still being questioned. Nothing personal but this sort of thing can't just be written off or discounted so easily. Why are some people, (maybe there are others) being cleared by a private means without having to undergo the same dna testing as everyone else? What sort of alibi does this person have that can sway an entire investigation to test hundreds of strangers instead him but yet requires his alibi being kept secret ? Why are Police disregarding their own profile and violating their own testing procedures in regard this person? Some people trust Police explicitely and can put things like this to rest quite easily despite the lack of answers. For others it will always be one of those nagging unexplained details you sometimes come across when wading through cold case investigations.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on May 03, 2014, 01:14:08 PM
We aren't hearing any rash of similar murders in the area since Sonia. That too fits with the original profile.

Just a few stats to consider before attempting to extradite any one back from another country if the outcome of a trial is not 100%.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/28/it-costs-113000-a-year-to-lodge-a-federal-prisoner-report (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/28/it-costs-113000-a-year-to-lodge-a-federal-prisoner-report)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/corrections-canada-to-make-budget-cuts-as-prison-population-grows/article4488757/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/corrections-canada-to-make-budget-cuts-as-prison-population-grows/article4488757/)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on May 04, 2014, 10:33:50 AM
Here are some stats for 2010 - should anyone be interested.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2011001/article/11561-eng.htm#a10

excerpt:

Among solved homicides in 2010, most victims (83%) knew their killer. Acquaintances comprised the majority of accused persons (40%), followed by family members (34%), strangers (17%), and criminal relationships (9%) (Table 7).

Between 2009 and 2010, declines in homicide rates were reported across all four major accused-victim relationship categories (Chart 9). Rates of homicide committed by acquaintances and family members saw a decrease of 7% and 9% respectively. Rates fell even further for homicides committed by strangers (-14%) and criminal acquaintances (-21%).

and: Intimate Partner Homicides

The risk of intimate partner homicide varies according to a number of factors, including the characteristics of the victim and the type of relationship shared with the accused.6 In 2010, current and former common-law spouses accounted for close to one-half of homicides committed by an intimate partner (45%), followed equally by legal spouses (28%) and dating partners (28%). This was a considerable shift from the previous ten-year period, when current or former legal spouses made up the largest share of persons accused of killing an intimate partner (42%).

In fact, much of the decline in intimate partner homicide over the past 30 years can be attributed to a decline in homicides in the context of legal marriage. The number of homicides by current and former legal spouses decreased 52% from 1980 to 2010, while homicides within common-law and dating relationships increased (Chart 11). This trend may reflect a demographic shift across the country in which more young couples are deciding to delay marriage or selecting a common-law relationship prior to, or as an alternative to, legal marriage (Clark 2007).

Persons with Mental Disorder

Between 2000 and 2010, there were 621 persons accused of homicide reported by police to have a suspected mental or developmental disorder, accounting for 13%3 of all persons accused over this time period. More than one-half of all accused persons with a suspected mental or developmental disorder killed a family member (56%), followed by an acquaintance (33%), stranger (10%) or criminal associate (1%).4 Approximately 1 in 3 (33%) had a previous conviction for a violent offence and 1 in 5 (18%) had a previous conviction(s) for a non-violent offence, lower than other persons accused of homicide (42% and 21% respectively).

The characteristics of homicides involving an accused with a suspected mental or developmental disorder differ in a number of different ways from other homicides. A higher proportion of female (18%) than male accused (13%) were reported as having a suspected mental or developmental disorder. The prevalence of these conditions among the accused population also increased steadily with age. Among accused persons 18 to 24 years of age, approximately 7% were suspected of having a mental illness, rising to 33% among accused persons over the age of 55 (Chart 13).


jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on May 18, 2014, 06:36:29 PM
This is an article from 2010.  Much of it still holds true today.

Police should say more about Orangeville murder

Rosie DiManno

If there is good reason for women to fear a killer on the loose — police should say so.

If Sonia Varaschin was murdered by someone unlikely to attack anybody else — police should say so.

There is a vast difference between not random and acutely personal.

That the 42-year-old nurse may have known the individual who took her life, as clearly suspected by investigators, does not automatically make this a crime of specificity rather than homicide of opportunity.

That she might have left her door unlocked on a steamy summer weekend, as the lead detective implied at a news conference Wednesday afternoon, raises new questions about how and why this particular, petite woman came to such a gruesome end.

It is not reassuring.

Eleven days after Varaschin went missing, five days after her remains were found along a secluded country road, 24 hours after positive identification and formal designation of homicide, the public has no reason to believe they’re not at risk. That matters when murder happens, what the implications could be for everyone else.

Orangeville, where Varaschin lived in a townhouse complex with her cat, is a small place, only 27,000 people. Police believe the killer knew the area, was familiar with the complex and “potentially Sonia herself.’’ They have steadfastly rejected a helter-skelter scenario.

“I think, with fair degree of confidence, we can say that the person was at least familiar to her,’’ OPP Det.-Insp. Mark Pritchard told reporters.

That broadens the scope alarmingly.

Whether the murderer also resided in Orangeville or frequented the town often enough to know its niches — such as the laneway where Varaschin’s blood-splattered car was found Aug. 30 with trunk and front doors open — he (presumably a he) suddenly looms more ominously, more of a diffuse threat, than just a week ago, I think: Someone rubbed up against, encountered at work, in a store, the gym, the local hospital.

Should investigators have evidence to blunt that fear, they ought to share it now because alleviating anxiety could not possibly compromise their pursuit of the murderer. What they’re not saying, or selectively saying, verges on the irresponsible and unfair, given the investigative covenant Pritchard has urged on the public — the help police seek.

“Last week, through the media, we asked that the public be our eyes and ears in locating Sonia. As a result of that appeal, a member of the public found human remains and bedding missing from Sonia’s home.

“Again, we’re reaching out to the public in the Orangeville area with what we believe is a key piece of the information that will lead us to the killer.’’

A boot — forensically identified from a footprint as a size 10 to 11 “WindRiver or Dakota’’ model sold exclusively at Mark’s Work Warehouse. There are some 360 outlets in Canada; only one in Orangeville.

What police would not reveal: If Varaschin was sexually assaulted; if DNA of her killer has been recovered; cause of death; what weapon was used or if they’ve got it; where the bootprint was found. All of that is being kept close to the vest as “holdback information.’’

When a reporter asked if Varaschin might have opened the door to her killer, Pritchard offered a tantalizing detail, elliptically: “Based on the evidence that we’ve uncovered, there’s no indication of that. There’s no sign of forced entry.’’

So perhaps the killer had a key? “That assumes the door was locked.’’

An unlocked door, then, an invitation to someone who knew Varaschin lived alone, who’d been watching, who had a compulsion to do her harm? And would that make him a danger to other women or was it only this petite and compassionate nurse — a lady who gave examinations to stuffed animals that kids brought in?

There is a boyfriend in the picture who’s been questioned and, a week ago, police indicated he was not a suspect. Of course, cops say a lot of things during a murder case while at the same time saying little of substance, because public remarks are always subtextual in these carefully crafted sound bites, a kind of dog-whistle dialogue between investigators and their prey.

Every murder probe, as Pritchard reminded, begins from the inner circle of a person’s extinguished life and radiates outwards. “For every homicide investigation, they nearly always start with those who were closest to the victim, friends, family, associates. . .’’

Somebody out there probably knows, or suspects, and Pritchard implores them to contact police. The killer would likely have been covered in blood, on his clothes, his boots.

Police need to hear from “anyone who knows someone who wears boots like these, who’s familiar with this area, came home on Aug. 30 with unexplained staining on their clothing or their boots, has since discarded these boots or does so after today’s announcement, or someone who may have purchased new boots since Aug. 30 for work-related reasons.

“A friend, a co-worker or spouse will hold the key to solving this crime.’’
--END OF ARTICLE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We were told this much by the detective who was the first designated to the case, Mark Pritchard.
Pritchard said : He is a cold blood killer.

Here is the defination from the dictionary.
cold-blooded
Adjective:
 callous, cruel, savage, brutal, ruthless, steely, heartless, inhuman, merciless, unmoved, dispassionate, barbarous, pitiless, unfeeling, unemotional, stony-hearted.

Was he a madman? Or a man who was mad?

Was it planned? Or was it spontaneous?

JB

Zoom ahead to 2014 - a $50,000 reward has been added - this is new stuff!
Police are still open to tips/ - Like what kind of tips would be considered?  Other than the actual name and address of the killer?jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on July 27, 2014, 02:28:20 PM
I've been thinking --
were we ever given info by LE on the position of the driver's seat in Sonia's car? We know the killer drove the vehicle. Was the seat reclined to accommodate long legs, a heavier body? Sonia was petite. The driver's seat must usually have been in a somewhat close-ish position to the front. Can we tell anything about the killer's size from a possibly altered position of the seat? Or did the killer recline it all the way back on parking? Return it to a tight position to the front? If the seat was moved all the way back or all the way front, does that suggest a calculating presence of mind, which might contest the profile some people have of the killer about drugs, irrational decision-making, etc? I keep looking to how the car was parked -- so neatly in line, and how camera capture was evaded.
I don't think we were ever given info on the position of the driver seat, were we? Does anyone remember? (I know LE's MO is to keep specific info from the public to prevent limiting scope about who the perp might be, among other reasons. So if it SEEMS like the killer might have moved the seat to a mid-position and LE might be able to guestimate weight and height, I suspect we'll not be given that info.) Sigh.
Sonia's thread is so silent. I feel like there is something that might be obvious in front of all of us that just escapes us.... I keep thinking it might hinge on the garage door and why the killer took Sonia through the front, but I know we've talked about that a lot already.
ANYONE have any fresh ideas?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 27, 2014, 03:09:56 PM

the only thing that I have not added, to my list - however others have put the following theory forward;

That it was a robbery gone bad.  She had just started a job at a pharma company, and if word got around, junkies would or could have the clouded thought that Sonia would have samples in her home. I think this theory may have some merit.  When I look at pictures taken of the home, there is a scene taken from the back.  There is police tape around the back area as well.  In addition, there was a report that police found a cigarette butt outside the back, as if someone had been waiting and watching Sonia's back of the townhouse.

I believe her home did not have a door linking her home directly into the garage. There was a lot of discussion on this, and it was felt that she did not.

It will be interesting to see - If at the end of this coming August, the Lead Inspector will once again sit down with the press.

I wonder if those that gave their dna sample have received letters absolving them from this crime as they proved to be not a match?  Letters were promised by law enforcement.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 27, 2014, 06:00:20 PM
I believe it was Dannybam who came onto this site and said that the police asked him for a swab, although he really didn't know why as he never met her. Perhaps he can answer the question as to whether he received his letter, or whatever.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Dannybam on July 27, 2014, 07:06:29 PM
Hey JB...

No, investigators have not issued any official statements as to whether or not my DNA was a match.

Obviously, if it were, it would be more than unlikely that I'd be a free man.

I can say with some certainty that I remained a suspect (the primary suspect, I've been told), for years after the voluntary submission of my DNA.


Nice to hear from you,

Dan



Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on July 27, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
I am curious now  after reading the last two post. Dannybam wonder if you would be so kind as to expand on what you said , you said you were the LE primary suspect  even after you gave a swab.  I see the the poster above mentioned you did not even know her or had not met her wondering if you would share with us then how you came to be a primary suspect if you did not even know her?  Thanks so much for filling us in on that.  I pray they soon find her murderer she was such a wonderful person
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on July 28, 2014, 09:29:31 AM
Good to see you back on site again Dannybam.  You contributed quite a lot to Sonia's thread in the past. Your input was appreciated by all of we posters.

I sincerely hope that all is going well with you, and it was nice to hear from you again too.

Jellybean (JB)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 02, 2014, 06:22:16 AM
Question for Dannybam, that I am most sure you are not able/allowed to answer but will ask anyway. As per your posts, you a stranger may have been considered (or still are) a primary suspect, what evidence led them to you? The reason I ask is, if you are being looked at so closely some info led them your way, are you being set up/framed by someone you know? The real killer? I am in no way suggesting LE is setting you up but some info led them to your door and kept them interested in you.

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on August 06, 2014, 03:34:10 PM
My thoughts and prayers once again to the family of Sonia. A long time gone by and here we are almost again to the anniversary of her death. A senseless act of violence against a young woman. I do hope that when Sonia's anniversary comes up that there is a memorial candlelight service and that it is splashed by the media to get everyone's attention. Also there maybe a re-enactment done or if it has been already done, to replay the video of the scene. And the police should be begging any witness to come forward, to indicate to them if they do hold any information that they too maybe charged in Sonia's death, if they are holding information that they know about the killer. Again, if I was living in the area, I certainly would attend a memorial service for this intelligent young woman, gone to soon. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 15, 2014, 04:44:39 PM
As we all know, it will be 4 years at the end of this month (August) since Sonia Varaschin was brutally murdered.

I think we all have a fair idea as to the string of events, after she was originally reported missing.

It went something like this -

Sonia  was originally reported missing. Her abandoned car was found behind a Tack Shop in Orangeville.
Visible signs of blood on the outside of the vehicle.

Orangeville Police were all over her blood splattered townhouse.

The Orangeville Police Chief announced that no stone will be left unturned until we  find her and bring her safely  home.  This picture of Sonia being rescued and returned to her loving family conjured up warm and fuzzy images in many of us.

Two days after that announcement Forensic teams after checking her townhouse came to the sad conclusion that there was no way Sonia could have survived such a brutal attack.

The Police Chief of Orangeville announced that the family was informed, and  obviously this attack was RANDOM.
The  female citizens of Orangeville lived in a mode of fear for their safety.

There were extensive professional searches applied in the search for Sonia (volunteers who offered their help in the search were refused!)- Law Enforcement brought out cops on horseback, helicopters and what not - all in vain (Still no sign of Sonia).

A few days  later, a person out walking their dog discovered her remains not too far from Orangeville just off of Beech Grove Side Road. Yes, it was a citizen who found her.

The police asked the public to keep an eye open for a beige quilt and sheet which was missing from Sonia's home (we can only assume it was missing from Sonia's bed -  the police did not specify - perhaps they considered where it came from top secret.  And of course a citizen found the missing items and brought it to the Orangeville's police attention. So far, so good!.

By December, a profile of the killer was worked out by the  FBI, the RCMP, and the OPP.  High hopes now, that law enforcement would find the killer and make an arrest within a reasonable amount of time, and with the help of the public – well all the better!!

 From this brainstorming session of the Profilers, the clues given to the public via much fan fare appeared to be simple enough -  and potentially workable –

In all likelyhood her attacker was familiar with Sonia, (pursed lips about the question, did Sonia know him?), was familiar with her townhouse and area.   So much for RANDOM!.

He wore a size 10 or 11 (brand names given)  boot from Mark's Work Wear house –

OOO - wait a minute.  These boots were not only worn for work – but were also a fashion statement. They were very  popular. Perhaps that clue is not so workable as originally thought.

 He may have increased his alcohol consumption, might have missed work, or moved from the area.
Well, let’s see – combined with the popular style of boots,  perhaps that may be workable –

Hang on a minute,  many a guy may go on a toot, and miss work on a Monday. And of course leaving town –Well – maybe. I wonder how many men move away from the area at any one given time? 

The big question looms , was he from Orangevile to begin with? Oops, that never occurred to me.

And oh yes, he would certainly have arrived home with blood stained clothing. Watch out for that one! That is workable – yes, that is a good clue.

But, gee I am not too sure --- what if he was single – lived alone.  Who would be there to see his blood stained clothing when he arrived home? – That is a clue that is not necessarily workable.

The Profilers released  a few more tidbits, and of course asking the citizens to keep their eyes open and their ears close
 to the ground, in case a "conversation" between the perp and some other person, may be overheard.

Yes, of course the perp will loudly blab about it within earshot of the public.  Hmm – that has potential.

One year had passed. Finally, there was hope that law enforcement would now definately find the killer and would shortly make an arrest.  After all, law enforcement announced that they had the killer's DNA, and they were going to ask for swabs (voluntarily) from only a few  men, and of course we thought well, it won't be long now.

This “swab -taking business”,  continued and continued and continued.  600 times at last count.

Sonia led a good clean life by all accounts, but hey, she went onto a dating site the cops said!! – and every contact that she made or replied to – definitely had to be checked out!

Her best friend and confident stated that while she was aware that Sonia was on a dating site, she would certainly know if Sonia had met any of them – and as far as she knew Sonia never had. 

Sonia was never into the bar scene either. Sonia preferred the outdoors.   But, never mind, the contacts had to be checked out.
Not only any contacts that she had on a dating site, but those who lived within her neighbourhood, and area had to be asked for a swab.

Alas, on the 3rd year of her death, a $50,000 reward was offered, to any citizen who may have any information that will lead police to an arrest of the murder of Sonia Varaschin.
Hmm – how confusing – A reward after only three years of intense investigating?

Let’s hope there is a citizen out there who is up to the task of spilling the beans on the killer! One year has passed, since the reward offer, and as far as we know, no one has stepped forward.

As noted year number 4 is almost here.  I wonder if law enforcement will just let this slip away with nothing said, or will they once again bring her murder to the public’s attention, do something a little different this time and drop a few workable clues from that profile.

There is such a thing as keeping things close to the chest and under lock and key, but really – where has it taken law enforcement? What tangible gains have they made during these past four years?
If some have been made, we would like to hear about it.  You don’t have to be specific, specific, specific, but tell us just enough to bring our confidence back to a more comfortable level.

To think that he is still "out there", and heavens knows what he may do next, to another woman, is scary stuff!
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: lily17 on August 19, 2014, 09:37:34 AM
As someone who is very close to this investigation, it is agonizing to see another year go by with no answers.  I can't imagine what her poor family must be going through.  Knowing details about certain crime scenes and gleaning what I can from this site and other sources of information, I am lead to believe that even with DNA, nothing less than a confession or eye-witness to Sonia's murder will result in an arrest.  So sad.  To my mind, as lead investigators come and go, if they can't crack the case themselves, maybe they should get someone in who can.  Sadly, I wonder if egos and hero-complex sometimes get in the way of getting the job done.  I saw this first-hand years ago with the Paul Bernardo case when Vince Bevin refused to share information with other police departments and severely compromised that case.  As the anniversary of Sonia's death approaches, I'm sure we will be spoon-fed another round of vague promises and reminders of a useless profile that couldn't eliminate my cat!  They need to give us more information if they want the public to do their job.  If this murder happened in the States, you can bet the media would leave no stone unturned and a suspect would be in custody by now.  My deepest sympathies go out to Sonia's family and friends.  Trust me... some of us are working very hard to bring Sonia's killer to justice.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 19, 2014, 04:07:00 PM
Quote Lily17 "To my mind, as lead investigators come and go, if they can't crack the case themselves, maybe they should get someone in who can.  "

I agree.  Why would the OPP take Mark Pritchard away from this case?  Anything that I have come across, Lead Investigators on other forces stick with it.  That makes sense!  This does not appear to be the philosophy of the OPP.  Right from the start, in Sonia's case, Pritchard disappeared. Then there was a few months gap before they brought in another designate. I believe   Last I have heard, she has had three in four years!!

quote" Sadly, I wonder if egos and hero-complex sometimes get in the way of getting the job done." unquote

Quite possibly!!  It was quite awhile before the OPP were called in to take over.

The police need to start from scratch - Have some top brains go over everything from the beginning. Throw out that profile and sit down to serious business.  It is said that very often a perp in a murder case was initially interviewed early into an investigation, but for whatever reason failed to fall within the area of suspicion.

In anything that I have read, profiling is considered to be more of an art than a science.
Here is a long read - but well worth the struggle.
http://www.umoncton.ca/crde/files/crde/wf/wf/pdf/Projets/profilage_eng.pdf

Yes, there have been cases where the profile was correct.  These are far and few in between.
I believe I did set a link of a female profiler with OPP who said that they are 16% correct.  Perhaps a  profiler will correct me if my figure is wrong. But I would like to see the data.  How many cases were explored that used criminal profiling and how many of these were correct?

From what I have read and searched for, there have not been any serious studies done to date. The usual draw back - is separating the science from empirical instincts, and the life's experiences of the profiler.

In any event the profile presented on SV's case to the public was amateurish at best.

The OPP have  leaned upon this profile far too long! In my  opinion.

To put this topic back into a more humanistic way, as Sonia's mother said, offering a $50,000 reward is a little too late.
People have moved away, and memories have dimmed.  If it had been offered right from the beginning, it may have made a difference.

In all fairness - an old expression holds true here.  Hind sight is great sight.

JB



Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 21, 2014, 06:42:40 PM
At the link below
 
http://mynorthwest.com/11/2585684/Investigators-defend-use-of-DNA-sweep-in-Jenise-Wright-case

there's a story on voluntary DNA collection in a Washington case (Jenise Wright) that briefly mentions the DNA sweep in Sonia's investigation. I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but one thing that really struck me in first perusal of the text is this statement by a University of Nebraska prof: "These are all very horrible crimes - serial murders or serial rapists." I'm taking this a bit out of context; you'll have to read the article for yourself to assess its applicability to Sonia's case. But: I know some of us wonder/worry if the FBI involvement (and now, perhaps, the wide DNA effort?) indicates that Sonia's murder is more than a stand-alone crime. I don't know. The professor does go on to say in DNA-sweep cases that "There's a lot of emotion involved, a lot of community fear. Police departments are under a lot of pressure to do something, or at least appear to be doing something." There are certainly other factors than potential serial implications that explain pressure on LE to solve Sonia's case. But, again, that one statement does resonate eerily to me. Not sure if others feel the same.

As the end of August approaches, I keep hoping to hear something encouraging from media or LE. I can only imagine how hard things are for the Varaschin family -- this month, especially. My heart goes out to them, and to all Sonia's friends and family. Let's hope LE has something in hand!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on August 22, 2014, 01:31:39 PM
Because nobody has been arrested or a prime suspect in Sonia's case, I wonder in my mind if it was a random act of violence. Thinking about the imprint of the "work boot". Could this be a travelling worker, a construction worker that moves from place to place and was possibly finished his job the very next day and moved on to another city. It is very unsettling that nobody has been arrested and many persons have submitted DNA samples. I do believe the police think this is possibly a serial killer, one who moves maybe from the US to Canada and maybe even goes to Europe in his travels. Because the FBI is involved, I am thinking this guy has committed more than one murder. Maybe Sonia encountered him at some point and he followed her, home from groceries, a bar, a restaurant and picked her as the next victim. That is my opinion, because of the long period of time, four years and nobody arrested yet.  Hopefully a large memorial candlelight vigil will be held for Sonia. I do hope FBI are watching to see who attends this memorial and takes plenty of video of the event.  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 22, 2014, 05:00:51 PM
2Soccermom: I read your article with great interest.  I can see where DNA collection would be helpful in the murder of this young child.  The mobile park had few citizens and for some reason the detectives felt that the killer lived within these perimeters, as her remains were found close to the trailer park.  I believe they took 100 samples.

Thank you for pointing that out to us.  Here is a case where DNA collection was successful!!

However, as you know, the difference is huge, when one considers Sonia.  She lived in a city of 27,000 not counting the outer areas.

It was a daring gamble with the Lead Detective to ask 600 men for swabs, beginning with young men at 18 years of age, in the case of Sonia. IMO,  Back ground checks on each one had to be completed, and in all fairness this takes time and multiple resources. It would have been great, if this gamble had paid off.  I wonder what compelled him to do this? 

There had to be a very valid reason.  Such as few clues left at the three crime scenes, except the DNA.  Every professional talking head in the beginning thought that they must have a suspect.   Sad to say, so far no results.

One has to give law enforcement credit for their exceptional effort.

The $reward is offered for anyone to step forward.

If I recall the new lead Dobson said in the National Post, that often circumstances will change within relationships and they may step forward - Something like that.  And by the way, I admire her for sitting down and answering questions.  Is it Dobson, or Dobbins? 

I have heard it said before by a Lead Detective where I live word for word, (repeat - "at times life's circumstances changes and they may step forward").  Law enforcement would not say it, if in  the past  it  has not proven true in some  cases. But it appears to me - that OPP are hopeful that someone will relent and turn someone in.
It is written no doubt in the Manual.....  with backup of stats - (one hopes!)

Is this Desperation City or are they hopeful that a suspect's work mate, or family member will blow the whistle?

Capeheart you may have a valid point.  It could well of been someone from "out of the blue" who entered her home and attacked her.  (Sonia did not go to bars by herself - never)  Sadly, it is a possibility that a stranger did this to her.
However, he was familiar with Orangeville, and her townhouse, so ----?  Who knows?  That is the stumper!!

The other night, I returned to one of Sonia's websites, and read one poster who said (the discussion was about where the car was parked), that as a youth they would gather behind that area and smoke pot without fear of ever getting caught as they knew that camera's were not behind there.  So, that is also a clue.

Which poses the question,

where were the Orangeville Police, who are presently on the Sunshine List for salary!!

The killer knew that camera's were not there!  At least that is my conclusion.  Or was he just an out of towner and plain lucky?
 
How did he manage it?

 In the in placing of her remains, he would have been stumbling around in the dark back there, how did he manage it? 

His headlights would not of reached 50 yards away to the side of his car. Unless he parked the car sideways, to beam the headlights into that area.  Sonia's car was small, so that may have been possible. 

Otherwise,  how did he ever manage that? Unless he was very familiar with that area. And a possible full moon with some light from it.

Not to mention finding his way through her townhouse to locate her in the dark, and find her car keys in the dark.


These are, I think, practical questions that I have without any answer.  Possibly came equipped with a flashlight?  Got help of disposing her remains?

One cannot do it - in the dark without a light source, and Sonia would not exactly be light weight!!

By the way, her quilt was not found with her remains -  It was found elsewhere!! The top sheet, who knows if she was found with it or not - the reports are not clear.

-- And so -- the mystery of who murdered Sonia Varaschin continues. 


Justice, in her case, must be served.


As her mother has asked - who would ever want to kill Sonia?  Little Sonia who did no harm to anyone - but gave to her community?

Sonia was a loving person, a person who worked various shifts, a person who volunteered her nursing skills. Sonia was not a bar fly, she had close relationships with her girlfriends, told them everything about her life, including her family.

Nothing was left to secret about her life, as to where she was going, what she was doing. 

Her girlfriends, her family, knew what == her plans were for each and every day. Then just like that, she did not appear for work!!

One would think,  my gosh 600 swabs.  What was she up to!

She was up to nothing.!!

Sonia was not a loose woman, not a bar fly.

I like to believe that common sense prevails------

PEACE
JB

 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 25, 2014, 03:39:07 PM
Got in touch with a realtor.  Here are the answers -

There is no door directly from townhouse to garage.

3 bedrooms, 2 in the back and main bedroom in the front.

Approx 24 to 30 units. Situated on a cul-de-sac.

Laundry in the basement.

jb
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 26, 2014, 07:45:48 PM
great work, JB. That answers with certainty a long riddle here. So he had to take Sonia though the front, either because her car was parked in the drive OR if it was in the garage -- it doesn't matter any more. So now taking her down the visible front steps seems less like a drug-induced, crazed, risk-taking action than a calculated and cold strategy -- especially if you see how relocation of Sonia from her townhome substituted a missing persons call for the onset of murder investigation and thus probably allowed enough delay for establishment of alibi, destruction of the perp's personal evidence, healing of any scratches or bruises he could have incurred, and possibly degradation of evidence that Sonia may have carried with her.
The end of August is very hard. 4 years, and we're still with very little to sustain us -- except all the fervent wishes of sleuthers here, and Sonia's family and friends -- that we will see some justice this year.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 27, 2014, 11:13:23 AM
2Soccermom.  I certainly agree with everything that you said!  It is beginning to look that way doesn't it?

Here is a picture of the back of her townhouse which has been taped off.

Sorry, I can only give the link - as I still cannot insert a picture (sigh- I have tried many times to no avail)
Perhaps someone can put it up for us?  I always ask Debbiec to do this - but I hate to ask her again.

http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2013/08/090210-orangeville7_24465095.jpg

Sonia's is the one on the right hand side - at the very end.

]Note: that unlike the others along the back, she has a bay window. You will see a light on.

The back of her townhouse can tell us a lot -.  IMO.

What else is different about it?  No doubt there are lots of things that I have missed.

Could the bay window denote a living room?

Notice how close they are to each other?

And yet nothing was heard by her next door neighbours?  Amazing!!

It was people across the street who heard the arguing and screaming at around 3:00 a.m coming from her area. 

Perhaps it was some other incident - unrelated to Sonia?  (Just throwing that part out there.)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on August 27, 2014, 11:59:41 AM
Quote
Sorry, I can only give the link - as I still cannot insert a picture (sigh- I have tried many times to no avail)
Perhaps someone can put it up for us?  I always ask Debbiec to do this - but I hate to ask her again.

Never hesitate to ask me, JB. I don't mind helping at all. :)

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: joojoo on August 27, 2014, 10:01:31 PM
Always checking here for updates hoping to see someone has been arrested.   I hope that soon her family will see closure and an arrest will be made in Sonia's case.  Looking at the rear of the townhouse,  would there be a viable exit for the perp or entrance.  The fence does not look like it would be climbed easily---was there a gate to the open area outside of the backyards?   If the back is difficult to enter or exit her house, then he likely had no choice but to take her out the front door.  Does this mean he is someone known or at least acquainted with her and she let in the house?  I agree with Fridgiebear on this point.  Also how easy would it be to watch someone with the type of fencing that was around the yards if it was a random stranger.  I also think the perp was thinking on the fly during this crime to cover his tracks and was lucky.  Someone who reacts anxiously and quickly to a situation and goes into an almost focused/robotic state to deal with the situation he is in. jmo
 
Like others I am hoping LE give out a bit more information so this case can be solved.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 28, 2014, 04:46:11 PM
What if the murder was earlier in the day and the perp returned later in the dark of night? If the perp was known to be with her in the afternoon by someone/anyone, making the murder appear to have happened at night could give an alibi?

Could have left something incriminating and went back and then moved her body to hide his DNA? (Also time of death is more difficult once left outside above ground with no clothing or sheets to protect the body)Parked his vehicle at the tack shop or close, walked over? Left her car there when he went back for his vehicle (car, bike etc)

Why wrap and remove her body, move her car, but not clean up the murder scene? It was apparent to police that something bad happened inside the home.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 28, 2014, 05:31:44 PM
Good thoughts Logical.  According to her Mom, Sonia's last call was on Sunday at 11:30 pm, from her on again, off again  bf, so she was alive and well then.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 28, 2014, 05:53:57 PM
Thanks JB, Ok, then I guess it was at night but still why take her and not clean up? Why take the chance of carrying her out into a driveway of a townhouse complex? We assume she was wrapped in the sheets when removed, but the bedding was not found wrapped on her body but a distance away. Why take her and the sheets and not clean up, did the perp think his DNA could only be on these items? Is that why they were strewn across the ground and not hidden, they wanted the extremities to rid the evidence of eligible DNA on these items? Or at least be able to create doubt in evidence if used in court later?

How often do perps break in (walk in a unlocked door or to trespass , enter uninvited) in the middle of the night and attack, possibly rape and murder someone and then MOVE the body? Yes get in and attack and maybe murder and then get the hell outa dodge, but to move her........ Why?

Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 28, 2014, 06:46:41 PM
Quote Logical"How often do perps break in (walk in a unlocked door or to trespass , enter uninvited) in the middle of the night and attack, possibly rape and murder someone and then MOVE the body? Yes get in and attack and maybe murder and then get the hell outa dodge, but to move her........ Why?" unquote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a good question, and we have been struggling for a logical answer. And to take the time to clean up?  There was a lot of blood there (I think - at least according to the papers).  Rather than clean up - just remove her, which carries the most evidence?  ??? He didn't go out of his way to cover her remains either.  Just about 50 yards at most from a side road in amongst some reeds and stuff.  Sounds panicky to me, now that I think of it. And I wonder, if he even thought of DNA considering his situation.  :-\

Any thoughts anyone?

Hypothetically, If you killed someone in their home, why would you remove their body from their premises?
Under what circumstances or conditions would you feel that you had to do so? What would make you think that you had no other choice?
JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 28, 2014, 08:31:53 PM
I am thinking of the Nathan O'Brien case - Where the alleged killer, not only murdered three people, but removed all three of them from a home. 

Why?  Why not leave all 3 there.  It would have been easier.  Just like Sonia's killer, DG took great risk in removing them from the house and transporting them possibly in his own vehicle, driving through town and outward. Why?
If we know the answer to that one, we may be able to figure out why Sonia's killer did the very same thing.
One thing we do know about DG is he definitely knew these three, very, very. well.


JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on August 29, 2014, 09:15:32 AM
Why move the body/bodies? To buy time and also to hide evidence of what happened. Wasn't there a lot of rain during the time Sonia wasn't yet found? It would wash away dna.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 29, 2014, 10:19:56 AM
ctv news today:
story on Sonia's case. OPP have released video surveillance of 2 individuals (men) at a gazebo in a park -- I think close to where Sonia's car was found. Sorry I'm not more precise; I had the news in the background and wasn't anticipating this update and missed some of the first info. The individuals are being sought as potential "witnesses" (the story did NOT say POIs) -- LE is suggesting these 2 folks may have seen a car or something else out of the ordinary. The video suggests the 2 were in the park at night (images are dark and not clear). Sigh. It is now 4 years later. If these people are youths (and indeed really not possible suspects -- and especially if they are somehow not from O-ville) how will they remember? They may not have been watching the news and reading papers about Sonia's murder to have been asking themselves what they might have seen.....  Drat!!! I know LE often has reasons for their tactics the public doesn't know or understand, but: I'd like to know why the video wasn't released earlier.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 29, 2014, 10:23:09 AM
Story and video at:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/29/sonia_varaschin_murder_investigators_release_video.html
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 29, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
sorry --
footage is from 5:58 am in Alexandra Park (not nighttime) according to the story. it would be really interesting to know if LE can use technology to zoom in on the footwear ... though I know it's not the boot per se but the tread that is critical to this case.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2014, 10:51:39 AM
Soccermom:  Looks like one is wearing white runners, and the other guy - his footwear is more interesting to me.
They kind of look like tall boots (unlaced). Was that at one point, part of the fashion of youth - if we recall?
Storm Trooper look? -

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 29, 2014, 11:15:31 AM
that's VERY interesting, JB! (I can't really tell.) But I imagine that would be one of the first details on LE's radar.
On the other hand: as I just posted on another site, surveillance footage is from 5:58 am in Alexandra Park according to the story. Do we think Sonia would have been murdered *after* that time? I don't think so. So: why would the killer(s) linger in the area? (Unless we buy into the crazed, drug-confused, irrational profile, which I don't.)
I think our killer(s) fled the scene once Sonia's car was returned.
But did these 2 people SEE anything??
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2014, 12:05:57 PM
No, I don't think they had anything to do with it (the murder).  It is just that his boots are interesting.  lol

 I wonder if these kids were ending their outing at 6:00 a.m?  Or just starting?

Who knows - They might of been waiting for the Holy Roller  bus to take them to BIBLE CAMP.   ::)  ;D

As to the video being grainy - I wonder if the OPP have the equipment and expertise to clear the video up a bit for investigators?  Surely in today's technology the ability would be there.  On the other hand - as we say garbage in = garbage out.

JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on August 29, 2014, 01:04:44 PM
JB --
I have the same questions: surely we have technology adequate enough today to zoom and clarify? Why doesn't the public get better images to see, if so?  I am frustrated that this "info" is released 4 years (probably) too late. If indeed these 2 people are not responsible for Sonia's murder, then we have a long yawning gap of time across memory that is long past fresh. Even if someone recognizes these people now, what can these 2 remember?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Jessica- on August 29, 2014, 01:49:46 PM
In the beginning of the movie it looks as though the man on the left is bending down or leaning over. I just find it odd how they are place there, at one point it seems as though they look over and then leave, hopefully this brings on some tips but in all honesty I believe just another dead end, the police dropped the ball on this case and releasing a grainy video 4 years after the fact is barely going to jog memories. Hopefully though I end up biting my tongue and the person responsible gets caught :)

I find it interesting that
1) 2 young men in a park in the wee hours of the morning, 12am-2am yes, I can see that but 4-6am seems a little odd.
2) To mee I feel as though they are watching something, waiting for a cue to go. Maybe they were there and someone (a friend ) went to far and hurt Sonia, instead of being "involved" they let whoever do what they had to do and waited for the signal?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 29, 2014, 03:20:33 PM
food for thought to help answer why the body was moved...

 "  The body is typically moved in whole or in pieces in order to conceal or advertise, depending upon the organized offender's assessment of what is needed at that given time in the sequence."  (source http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm )

As per that site on profiling a serial killer, the killer in this case would fit the organized offender profile. He killed at one site, disposed of body at another site which means he may have dismembered the body. They keep things personal, hold a conversation. 

The organized offender, " attacks using seduction, leaves a controlled crime scene,

leaves little physical evidence" . NOT the case with Sonia. So, why? Why did he leave so much evidence behind?

That was my line of thought as well, why move her and her bedding but not clean up? Unless the blood smears found in the home and car were from dragging her in the sheets and leaving evidence he could not see in the dark?

From your link above I found this interesting and think this killer may have these traits: these three types would move a body,

4 - THE LUST-ORIENTED HEDONIST - associates sexual pleasure with murder, sex while killing and necrophilia are eroticized experiences.
5 - THE THRILL-ORIENTED HEDONIST - gets a "rush" or "high" from killing, an elixir of thrills, excitement, and euphoria at victim's final anguish.
6 - THE POWER/CONTROL FREAK - takes pleasure from manipulation and domination (sociopath), experiences a "rush" or "high" from victim's misery.

CRIME SCENE CHARACTERISTICS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SIX TYPES

Characteristic   Visionary   Missionary   Comfort   Lust   Thrill   Power/Control
Controlled crime scene   No   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes
Overkill   Yes   No   No   Yes   No   No
Torture   No   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Body moved   No   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Specific victim   No   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes   Yes
Weapon at scene   Yes   No   Yes   No   No   No
Prior relation to victim   No   No   Yes   No   No   No
Victim known   Yes   No   Yes   No   No   No
Aberrant sex   No   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Weapons of torture   No   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Strangulation   No   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Penile penetration   ?   Yes   Not usually   Yes   Yes   Yes
Object penetration   Yes   No   No   Yes   Yes   Yes
Necrophilia   Yes   No   No   Yes   No   Yes


Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 29, 2014, 03:27:08 PM
No, I don't think they had anything to do with it (the murder).  It is just that his boots are interesting.  lol

 I wonder if these kids were ending their outing at 6:00 a.m?  Or just starting?

Who knows - They might of been waiting for the Holy Roller  bus to take them to BIBLE CAMP.   ::)  ;D

As to the video being grainy - I wonder if the OPP have the equipment and expertise to clear the video up a bit for investigators?  Surely in today's technology the ability would be there.  On the other hand - as we say garbage in = garbage out.

JB


I agree JB, they were most likely smoking a joint in the gazebo they looked so lackadaisical and slow moving, we do not know what direction they headed in either.

I think they want to know if they saw anything.

I'm curious why the video starts when they are already on the gazebo and within seconds leave, where is the video when they arrived, what time, how long did they hang out there?

LE could have shown clips of video to speed it up, why only the end of the clip?

Thanks
Logical
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Logical on August 29, 2014, 03:37:40 PM
Story and video at:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/29/sonia_varaschin_murder_investigators_release_video.html

It looks like they are throwing duffle bags or something over their shoulders? Are they carrying something?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: SAP on August 29, 2014, 03:52:26 PM
I see what JB saw ... one with white runners and the second with a type of open boot. Also the second person with the boots seems to be packing something ... either a duffelbag or a backpack. The person in white runners looks to have his hands in his pockets.
Those CCTV really need to be upgraded as the quality is very poor.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2014, 05:11:32 PM
Actually, I have to smile at "we the public".  We asked for something with more "teeth" in the way of clues, as we sure were not buying into their profile.  ;D

So, they may have listened to us when they gave us a grainy video to look at - and we complain about the quality and that it may be Four Years Too Late. (All true in my books - but hay it is better than nuttin.)

Seriously, I am pleased that they have released it.  Surprised and pleased!!
JB

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on August 29, 2014, 07:10:21 PM
I tried to download the video and adjust the picture but was unsuccessful.
I can't really tell what they have on their feet but it does look like one is carrying something.  Do you think they were
 out all night and on their way home?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 29, 2014, 08:35:56 PM
Discus, Here is a  better video, on the Orangeville Banner. (In my opinion)

JB
Here is the link, the story, and the video.

http://www.orangeville.com/news-story/4804978-sonia-varaschin-investigators-release-surveillance-camera-footage/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 30, 2014, 09:21:07 AM
To refresh our memories:  CBC interview with retired FBI Criminal Profiler: about Sonia's case. (video)

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Embedded-Only/News/Archive/ID/1699604723/
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Jessica- on August 30, 2014, 11:37:09 AM
 ??? Just thinking out loud here:

Was just looking on the first page of this thread and noticed what appears to be a punch mark or hole cut out in the garage door? If this is the case maybe this is how the person got in, or "hid" as I believe it was stated that there is no entry into the house. Maybe this person thought there was a way in through the garage and when he found out there wasn't hid out until the opportunity arose.

The drive to the body site according to Google maps is 1 hour? can someone verify as I thought it was closer to home. If in fact the body WAS an hour away, and the perp dropped the body and drove all the way back I believe 1) not smart, would have been better to discard the car NOT in the open and 2) was working alone. (ie) bloody drag marks and risking the drive back.

While watching a better quality of the video it seems as though unidentified #1's eye catches something and is trying to peer in between the trees, or get a better view of what is going on, around this time you can see the lower half of unidentified #2 turn and look. They take off, so they either thought cops? or obviously sensed something.  I'm beginning to suspect whoever killed Sonia knew that camera was there, and drove in with no lights as a glare, or bit of light should have appeared over the unidentified men in the gazebo so I'm wondering if the car slowly pulling in with no lights spooked them and they left.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on August 30, 2014, 12:06:03 PM
The drive to the site where her body was left is not 1 hour. 15, maybe 20 minutes top.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: eyeswideopen on August 30, 2014, 04:52:43 PM
Ron so that is not a long drive.   Thanks for letting us know it was only a few min drive to where she was dumped .
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on August 31, 2014, 10:01:27 AM
This link to the National Post includes many newspaper articles in regard to Sonia's murder, going back to when she was first reported missing. Although many of these articles have been posted over the years I felt it may be helpful to be able to access them without searching back through all the many pages of these threads.   

http://news.nationalpost.com/tag/sonia-varaschin/ (http://news.nationalpost.com/tag/sonia-varaschin/)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on August 31, 2014, 10:38:21 AM
Thanks debbiec.  It certainly helps, and the National Post did some fair and impartial articles at times.

Jessica-

Thank you so much for the snapshots of the video.  I have looked at them a number of times, and it is very helpful.

quote: Jessica

"While watching a better quality of the video it seems as though unidentified #1's eye catches something and is trying to peer in between the trees, or get a better view of what is going on, around this time you can see the lower half of unidentified #2 turn and look. They take off, so they either thought cops? or obviously sensed something.  I'm beginning to suspect whoever killed Sonia knew that camera was there, and drove in with no lights as a glare, or bit of light should have appeared over the unidentified men in the gazebo so I'm wondering if the car slowly pulling in with no lights spooked them and they left." unquote.

I did see "boots" glance across the parking lot as they were leaving too.  Perhaps they heard something?  Let us hope
It has been four years, and I wonder if these young people will even remember anything that evening.

CBC did say that the reason why the police are giving out this video---- is - while looking at all of the cameras situated around Orangeville, they were able to track down and identify everyone caught on cameras, however this is one that they need input from the public, as they have not been able to identify them. 

Does that mean that these youngsters were not known to police?  Even if it is grainy - they could not identify them, and yet are hoping that someone out there, including the subjects will step forward.

So they have been busy - the police have not been idle. This is comforting to know.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 01, 2014, 03:21:03 PM
By this video update, it appears that few good tips were ever turned in.

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/08/29/surveillance-video-released-in-sonia-varaschin-murder-case/

There are other videos below this that have not been placed on this site.

(you will see the bloody pillow case or cloth underneath the bush on the front of Sonia's property in some of them)

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Sunshine31 on September 01, 2014, 06:50:59 PM
Thanks for posting the link Jellybean!
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on September 07, 2014, 12:58:28 PM
New/recent article but spoiler alert: depressingly, no new info:

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/opinion-story/4818983-anniversary-yields-no-answers-in-death-of-sonia-varaschin-editorial-/

"nniversary yields no answers in death of Sonia Varaschin (Editorial)
Caledon Enterprise
By  Robyn Wilkinson
Another year has come and gone since the murder of former Bolton woman, Sonia Varaschin.

The nurse’s body was discovered along a Caledon sideroad four years ago on Sept. 5, just days after her sudden disappearance. Police found a bloody trail of evidence leading from her Orangeville townhome to downtown Orangeville near town hall, where her blood splattered vehicle was left, doors and trunk open, no sign of Sonia.

In the more than 1,460 days since her death, police have offered little insight into how she died, but the blood splattered sheets and vehicle left behind paint a vivid picture. This was a violent murder, and no killer has been caught to this day.

Few details have been shared in how authorities plan to find the person or persons responsible, while taunts of DNA evidence, and a $50,000 reward have turned up nothing as the seasons continue to change since Sonia’s death.

In each consecutive anniversary, police have either traipsed back to the scene to dig up “new” evidence, they’ve offered hefty rewards, declared they have the killer’s DNA and it’s only a matter of time before her family finds justice. But time continues to tick by. This year, on the fourth anniversary of Sonia's death, investigators announced they had a surveillance video of two people they want to speak with.

The video has been in their possession for four years. Very grainy surveillance footage they’re hoping will lead to answers in a case that appears more and more every day to have gone cold.

Last year, Varaschin’s heartbroken mother, Michele, told The Enterprise she had little faith a reward would help find her daughter’s killer.

We fear this year may be no different.

But we continue to have hope someone, somewhere does the right thing and comes forward and brings an end to the suffering for a family that has been robbed of a vibrant, young woman, and community their sense of security and safety."

caledonenterprise.com
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on September 07, 2014, 01:12:03 PM
It is helpful that the police have kept a video which was not released for four years. But if this video was never shown, it should have been. I mean the memory of people four years ago is going to be way up there, instead of releasing it now. But everything possible should be done to identify the persons in that video. I have often thought that maybe more than one person was responsible or knew who did this crime. Someone is just waiting for the police to knock on their door, they are in fear always. So if anyone in the area suspects a young man of committing this crime or young men, they have to come forward. Someone is keeping a secret, a family member, a close friend, someone knows who did this and they have to come forward. Four long years and nobody arrested, very sad for everyone in the area. I think when the person is arrested, there will be a shock at who it will be. Possibly a young man that has a clean record with the police, that had a night of drinking and acting out and it ended up in murder. Please come forward, as I've said many times, they possibly are reading all of the comments that are on this thread.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 11, 2014, 03:14:10 PM
Okay, I will bite --- once again ---on Sonia's thread, (sigh......) ::) Quite frankly I have lost interest, I hardly ever read it!!

But I did hover around her "anniversary" to see what the cops came up with this time!

Speaking of the grainy video, I wonder if there are any citizens calling in and giving tips as to who these two people are!
I will bet there are few!!

The old adage:  " Hear nothing, see nothing". Don't want to get involved.  MY life is perfect!  Don't need cops coming to my door and questioning me - Best to be quiet, and let someone else do it!!  This might well apply to this situation!

" I think I know who it is --- but maybe their pals will step up."   BS!!

 How much do you want to bet, that neither the two on the video, nor their pals will step Forward and identify?
I am no longer an optimist...

Nothing much in the way of tips of any substance right from the beginning, according to the Mayor of Orangeville, and he should know!!

Quite frankly, I am fed up with platitudes.  "Oh, I hope they catch him - at least for the families sake"  "No, I never heard anything or saw anything"...........

And I am fed up with Facebooks set up for her and left unattended over the last year, after all of the platitudes have been given until readers and comments have been exhausted, and edited! Cannot give an opinion, so I see, as they are deleted.   Even they are giving up!!  (I have never expressed an opinion on her site, I just read!! Too bad, so sad, as a few good tips might have come forward! 

If the admin doesn't want to spend the time and keep it up, then take it down.  As an example, there is no grainy video posted on there, last time I checked.  To me, it is similar to leaving an open window with curtains, and left unattended they over time become tattered and ragged! Sonia deserves better than that.  If it is set up then keep it up!

And I am fed up with Facebook asking for money for a scholarship for nursing, when the winner didn't even know WHO SONIA VARSCHIN WAS!! NEVER HEARD OF HER .... But I am sure she knows now!!

Here is a thought!! Why not combine both facebooks - with up to date business, and ask for money for a scholarship!!

Not every citizen is into Zumba Dancing.  Half of us - don't even know what it is - other than dancing to music to tone up!

I know very clearly that this is done out of love for Sonia, and by her a very good friend. but since I cannot express myself on this facebook,   Here is a point - redo the video so at least we can hear what is being said by the speaker, the music in the background is not in the background but drowns out her voice.  She is not heard above the din.
Haven't a clue as to what was said.  Redo it!! Leave the Zumba music out so that you can be heard-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally disgusted, I am,  with the whole darn situation.   Someone other than the killer knows something, might even have been involved in assisting the killer in removing her remains.  Should that be the case, we could never expect that person to come forward either. 

The killer was busy, yet no clues? I am not buying into it!!

I will await for an arrest, but won't hold my breath!!

Thanks for hearing me out!!

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on September 11, 2014, 08:05:26 PM

JB, I know how much time and effort and caring that you have dedicated to Sonia's case.  I also understand your frustration and outrage as you see it going icy cold as the years pass.  It is a sickening and helpless feeling beyond description.  It is out of your control, but please know that you have done your best for Sonia.  I think Sonia knows about you, and how much you care about finding justice for her.

The recent surveillance video released by LE (four years later) seems to me like a desperate effort on their part (similar to the large reward).  They didn't think the two guys were important four years ago, and I doubt that they are today, but why was this withheld for four years?  I recall that in the Amber Kirwan case, within two weeks, LE released a surveillance video of three guys who were recorded in the vicinity of her disappearance.  All three were identified within one hour, and the police thanked the public and the media. It proved an excellent example of how the public can help in an investigation.

Hopefully, more info will be released in an effort to solve Sonia's murder.  Certainly that video didn't "compromise" their investigation.  What else has been held back for no good reason?  JMO




Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on September 12, 2014, 07:13:47 AM
I drive past Orangeville at least once a month nowadays as I go to visit family.....I never go through without thinking of Sonia...and her family.   Orangeville is busy...it is at least four lane highway at the intersection of hwy10 and hwy9... That makes it really hard for me to fathom how her killer got to her house, out to where her body was found and then back to town to leave her car....without anyone seeing him.
I cannot shake the feeling that it is someone from the hospital...Someone they would least likely suspect.

There was a woman found rolled up in a carpet outside of Sudbury.....killer never found....But....her husband moved to Lindsay, he was a doctor....and, he ended up committing suicide......makes one go hmmmm.  ( That case is on this forum)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on September 12, 2014, 10:07:12 AM
What I don't understand is, was this video displayed after the murder or is it just being released now???? Don't know what is going on there. This murder should be solved. It is either someone that lives very close and is hiding in plain sight or it is possibly a killer that moves from city to city, committing crimes. These are the hardest criminals to find, serial criminals, could be murders or assaults that they are guilty of, but in that case may never be found. But a video, there is all kinds of technology today that can have this video enhanced to see what is happening there.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 17, 2014, 01:04:00 PM
I have received a personal message from a person who saw Sonia's car behind Greenhawk.

This person has requested that I post the following the message.  This person  had been upset about the press giving out wrong information to the public for the past four years!! I have on my own verified who this person is - and this is a genuine person who saw the car first thing,  and this message is genuine.

Normally, I don't do such things - but in this case?  Yes.

quote: "the car was found behind GreenHawk and the doors were all closed and that the car was not parked perfectly the way people are saying.  It was definitely parked on a slight angle and it looked very much like someone was in a big hurry to ditch the car and book it out of there." unquote.

The person has also stated to me, in earlier pm  that the car was not splattered with visible blood in the interior, as claimed by the press.  The interior of the car appeared to be clean.

It was the exterior of the car, the blood stains on the closed trunk and the back bumper that was visible, which raised alarm bells!! ONLY!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The press stating that both car doors were open, led people to believe that there possibly could be two people involved, is a disservice
By the time,  the press arrived,  cops were already  there and it was the cops who opened up the doors and trunk to take forensic pictures.

To the person who sent me this pm.  You have it off your mind now, hopefully the record has been set straight and you can continue on with your life.  There is nothing worse than knowing the truth and seeing it all screwed up!! ::)

.JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on September 17, 2014, 02:41:24 PM
Thanks jellybean (and to the person that pm'd you).   For some reason I never took the bait when the press reported that all the doors were open.....
This murder was committed by someone that knew Sonia.....And yes, he would be in quite the hurry to get away from her car, I can believe it wasn't perfectly parked.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on September 17, 2014, 07:12:17 PM
I do believe that at some point after the report of the doors being open, when the car was found, that comment was corrected. I do believe it was noted later that the police were the persons who did open the doors. I do believe we had discussed this at great length earlier in the investigation. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Mom on September 17, 2014, 08:16:02 PM
I do believe that at some point after the report of the doors being open, when the car was found, that comment was corrected. I do believe it was noted later that the police were the persons who did open the doors. I do believe we had discussed this at great length earlier in the investigation. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Thank you Capeheart.  You are right.  The “error” was detected early and we’ve discussed it endlessly.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on September 18, 2014, 08:49:13 AM
We had discussed it ( Oh and by the way it was me that brought this forward from the beginning - on how cops  work with vehicles found at a potential crime scene- on UC)  but newspapers still never did, and each time an article is written up, it is repeated over and over that the car was found with doors and trunk wide open.

I think through our own discussions on this site, we all concluded that it was the cops who opened the doors, etc.
But people still believe the articles.  Because of the initial reporting, many of us felt that two people were in the vehicle, and when they bailed out they left the doors open. Thus two perps.

It has never been formally corrected. It has also been accepted on other sites that the car was discovered with doors and trunk left open ----- etc.

In addition, many of us thought that the car was perfectly parked ---- apparently it wasn't...

It was also reported by the press over and over,  that the interior of the car was blood splattered. 

To the naked eye, of this person,  it wasn't - it appeared to have a clean interior.

Frankly, I am glad that someone has stepped forward and  made the effort to clarify these crucial points.
It was not an easy decision on this person's part - and I respect that.
There is still some residual fear in Orangeville,  apparently.

JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on October 05, 2014, 08:12:33 PM
Why can't this method be applied via the dna that they have to give a description of the killer of Sonia?
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=7332.msg111512#new

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-12097554

5 January 2011 Last updated at 21:50 ET Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

ShareFacebookTwitter.Painting a suspect's portrait with DNABy Paul Rincon
 
Science reporter, BBC News
 
DNA profile in lab DNA could be used to predict aspects of appearance, such as a person's hair and skin colour Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Hair colour predicted from genes
Forensic Science Service to close
Test tells age from blood drops

Police sketches are a standard part of detective work, particularly in violent crimes.

A sketch or e-fit based on an eyewitness description, together with information about height, build, age and ethnicity can help lead police to a suspect.

But how many of these details could be obtained from blood or DNA left at a crime scene?

Predicting a person's outward traits from genetic information is a newly emerging field in forensics. Scientists have already developed ways of testing for traits such as age and eye colour and are working on others for skin colour and even facial dimensions.

This research effort could yield new tools to help identify unknown DNA profiles at crime scenes.

The current approach, known as genetic profiling, involves comparing crime scene DNA with that from a suspect or with a profile stored in a database.

But as Manfred Kayser from Erasmus University in Rotterdam points out, the person either needs to be among a pool of suspects identified by the police or have their profile in a DNA database.

"If both are not true, you can have the nicest DNA profile in the world but you cannot do anything with it," he told BBC News.

'The full monty'
 
On Tuesday, Professor Kayser and colleagues published details of genes that predict the probable hair colour of an unknown individual.

In September 2010, the Dutch researchers outlined a method for estimating the age of a person from blood drops. The group has also developed a test for predicting eye colour.

Hair colour (SPL) Hair colour can be predicted with a high accuracy, according to Manfred Kayser
Professor Kayser, who is chair of forensic molecular biology at Erasmus Medical Center, describes his team's work as "the full monty, starting from basic science up to a validated tool (test) that can applied in forensics".

Meanwhile, Mark Shriver, an anthropologist at Penn State University, US, has been working on the genetics of skin colour.

"We have mapped four of the major genes which determine skin colour between African and European populations," he told BBC News, adding that his group is working towards a forensic test based on the markers.

Dr Shriver says he is also working with a company on an instrument that could be used by forensic officers to test for phenotypic traits "on-site", or at a crime scene.

Facing facts
 
But Dr Peter Gill, a former DNA specialist at the Forensic Science Service (FSS) now based at the University of Strathclyde, comments: "All these markers are never definitive because they are multi-genic (determined by multiple genes).

"So you have to put a probabilistic estimate on what the presence of a gene means."

Forensic officers Dr Shriver is helping develop a DNA testing instrument that can be used at a crime scene
One of the most intriguing - and challenging - areas of research into phenotypic markers concerns the genes that determine the shape of a person's face.

"There are some candidates, but it's quite questionable how good these candidates are. The knowledge is very limited," Professor Kayser told BBC News.

One way Professor Kayser and his colleagues are searching for these candidates is by studying the genetics of disorders that affect the face. Scientists can then study the influence those same genes have on normal facial variation.

Another approach, he says, is to search the genome for small variations that occur more frequently in people with particular facial types. This type of search is known as a genome-wide association study.

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote
You can at least concentrate some of the leads which would otherwise be 'into the blue'”
End Quote
Prof Manfred Kayser
 
Erasmus Medical Center
 
Mark Shriver is also working on the genetics of facial proportions and has uncovered candidate genes. His work, which is being prepared for publication, suggests that single genes can exert a strong influence on the shape of the face.

A scenario where forensic scientists extract a facial image from crime scene DNA and then match it to a passport photo remains science fiction, says Professor Kayser.

But, he says: "If you can limit a large or infinite group of people - namely everybody - to a smaller group of people, namely those who fit the appearance descriptions you can currently get out of forensic samples, you can at least concentrate some of the leads which would otherwise be 'into the blue'."

Different traits are influenced to a different degree by the environment: "Grey hair can be affected by environment, whether you spend time in the Sun can obviously affect your features; height can be affected by nutrition," Dr Gill explains.

But according to Manfred Kayser: "If you estimate heritability from twin studies, you end up with about 80% heritability [for height]. That would argue that it is strongly genetic."

Train carriage wrecked after a bomb in Atocha station, Madrid Ancestry analysis provided an important lead in the Madrid bombings investigation
He adds: "It turns out that there are lots and lots of genetic factors. So far, we know of about 200, but I am pretty sure there will be more than 1,000 parts of the genome that contribute to final height."

"Therefore it's more difficult to find them all to develop the final tools with the more DNA markers they include. Perhaps we will never be able to predict from DNA height as accurately as we can for eye colour. But that needs to be seen."

Peter Gill says the available tests for appearance traits are hardly used at present: "These are small steps along the way. I think it's going to be quite a long time before we get something that can be used in anger."

Dr Gill, who, along with Sir Alec Jeffreys and Dr Dave Werrett, published the first scientific paper on applying DNA profiling to forensic science, adds: "There are certain cases where the police are absolutely desperate for any information whatsoever.

"But there may be serious limitations offered by the sample. If you are trying to do multiple tests, for example, you may simply not have enough of the sample."

Ancestral roots
 
He says that even when a comparative test yields no match in a database, police have other options such as familial searching. This involves looking for a close, rather than exact match, in a DNA database. Such matches can turn out to be family members of the unknown person.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on October 31, 2014, 09:40:42 AM
Each year that has come and gone brought some sort of new update or announcement. That in itself is something not all cases enjoy. It shows that there is still attention being focused on Sonia and that all the public questioning has not gone unheard. This is likely the last year of any apparent effort. After five years you are into official cold case territory.

In regard the latest release and in addition to all the insightful comments, I believe there is some value to the video even if just for the time stamp. I highly doubt the two males have anything to do with the murder or that they will ever surface. It is too bad that the cameras were not facing the other way but these two act as a remote sensor indicating something was going on in the vicinity where the car was found. They looked over but did not run or hide. More a curiousity displayed imo. It could well be Sonia's car being dropped off. If so this is well into the morning hours just before daylight. Works in with and adds to the original profile. Sonia was apparently taken from her home near midnight. Her body was later found a twenty minute or so drive away. What did the killer do and where did he hide for the missing time period between midnight and 5 am? Did he deliberately wait somewhere to see if Sonia had been reported missing or if there was a Police presence before returning the car? How would he know?   

This case has been managed in a very strange manner right from the start. The person who best matched the official profile was cleared almost immediately for reasons unknown and then moved right out of the country. Much of the Police action cannot be reconciled with what the profile of the killer and crime scene details would seem to indicate. The Police profile highly suggests Sonia knew her killer yet Police actions seem more focused on finding a stranger.  Not many murder victims have a dna dragnet authorized for them, fewer yet have fbi involvement or input.

Looking at the big picture, it appears that someone has pulled rank here. (imo) It is unlikely that there will ever be any resolution if so.  Usually once the authorities have gone down that road, they will never change course.  I believe that is what we are seeing, a deliberate shift away from where the evidence and the profile point. 

Added- Whether just a ploy or ruse for public perception or not, the end result is the same. Real witnesses to real events have not surfaced to the necessary degree. A more specific request for specific information results in specific people realizing they saw or heard something they might otherwise believe unconnected. Time was of the essence.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 02, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
These boots are also used, by cops and Canadian Forces members.  They are more comfortable, and can be purchased in black.  Apparently, those that do, claim that the boots supplied by law enforcement and the forces are not very comfortable.  I stumbled upon the preference of MWW boots on two sites.
Army, and the Thin Blue Line (cops) under uniforms.

So ...... perhaps?? -- that also opens up avenues, (of which may be kept very close to the chest.)
Don't know - just a thought.   

 JB


Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on November 02, 2014, 08:06:52 PM

Unfortunately, trying to trace customers who bought MWW boots has become more difficult for LE.  Kijiji and ebay have them listed for sale--both new and used.  jb has noted that some police and army members are buying MWW boots...add them to the hikers and workmen who would wear boots off season, and the boot evidence at the crime scene becomes a faint hope in finding the killer.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 02, 2014, 08:26:36 PM
Initially, we thought 3 crimes scenes, surely law enforcement will have obtain lots of forensic evidence to catch the killer.  Then, they tell the public that the boot prints are the key!!

Then one year after her death, they announce that they MAY have the dna of the killer.

I am beginning to believe that this man left very little evidence.  How he did it?  Is anyone's guess.
No fingerprints to compare? No palm prints??

The police are hoping that the two young men in the video will step forward, and be questioned as to whether on that night or early am, if they saw anyone or any vehicle in the stall where her car was parked. - or if there was another vehicle parked beside it.

Yes, he had time, depending upon when he murdered her, to drive her car to the spot where he dumped her off, carry on home if he lived close by in the Caledon area,  have a quick shower, change his clothes and boots, wipe the interior of her vehicle, return to town, park her car and jump into his own and drive off.
 

JB
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 03, 2014, 11:38:01 AM
It was the 5 am time in the latest video that is most interesting. imo... If we look back to the profile of the poi and all the discussion that took place as to why even remove Sonia in the first place, this little piece adds greatly. Discussion ranged from Sonia having been transfered from her vehicle to another almost immediately before being taken out into the country due to severe mindless intoxication and many other motives.. Now we see an extremely brazen aspect surfacing to an even greater degree. Not only did the perp kill Sonia while she screamed loud enough to be heard by neighbours but he still went on to drag her outside to get her in the trunk of her car at a location visible to the same neighbours. Some seven hours later he returns Sonia's car back to a location mere blocks from where Sonia had just been murdered and from which he had just fled. Obviously there was some compulsion for someone to do this. Intoxication as motive for both taking Sonia and returning her car given that long a period of time does not seem a viable explanation any more. This was all deliberate and with motive.

We see the lack of evidence save the bootprints.  All prints wiped clean. Very little left behind. The perp did a very good job. That is an indication of some sort of experience or assistance from someone with. Almost a cop like knowledge of where to find evidence and how to get rid of it. Both Sonia and the sheets held evidence at one time imo. Just discarding both willy nilly at some other locations doesn't quite cut it for this guy and the deepening profile. He took both Sonia and the sheets somewhere for the purpose of removing evidence. I would wager that the sheets had been laundered and Sonia's body treated to bleaching or some similar procedure. They could do a chemical analysis of the type of cleaners used etc but it seems there is another aspect to all of this that likely precludes going any further or in other direction with the investigation.

It was a rational decision, a necessity in the mind of the perp to remove Sonia at the time of the crime, but returning is a very different matter. He fled the murder scene tires chirping by the sounds of things likely believing the Police may show up any minute. Highly suggests Sonia and her killer were very familiar with each other and the perk knew he would be looked at. How do you then justify the risk to return a murder vehicle covered in blood back near the scene of the crime? You wouldn't unless you knew it was safe to do so. He either returned in another vehicle to scout it out before returning Sonia's or he had assistance.

We have since seen the investigation head off in directions that are no longer reconcilable or fathomable with what has been released to the general public. Something else lurks behind the scenes known only to upper echelon investigators. I strongly believe they know exactly who is responsible and that it is not just lack of evidence that hampers charges. We will never be made privy as to why Sonia's murder remains unsolved. imo
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 03, 2014, 01:42:30 PM
Quote
We have since seen the investigation head off in directions that are no longer reconcilable or fathomable with what has been released to the general public. Something else lurks behind the scenes known only to upper echelon investigators. I strongly believe they know exactly who is responsible and that it is not just lack of evidence that hampers charges. We will never be made privy as to why Sonia's murder remains unsolved. imo
 

For myself, I would not go so far as to hint that there is any kind of conspiracy going on here, or that someone is being protected. However, I would venture to say that they may feel they know who is responsible and lack evidence to obtain a solid conviction.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 03, 2014, 09:06:27 PM
I would agree with lack of solid evidence.  Hopefully they have someone in mind. Somehow, in my own personal opinion at least, I doubt it.

I just feel that they never collected much evidence to begin with, and are just as stumped as the rest of us.  If they had a solid suspect in mind, could they not obtain a warrant to obtain his dna?

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 03, 2014, 11:55:51 PM
If removing Sonia's body and the sheets was for the purpose of cleaning evidence the perp would take her to  a known safe secure private location. The location where Sonia was found along with the profile released of the killer really points to one individual, a close male friend of Sonia's who lived just a few blocks from where Sonia's body was found. Obviously this individual should have been looked at quite closely by investigators. Instead he was exonerated almost immediately prior any dna testing. He then left the country.

Looking back at all the particulars of the crime, nice summary by Jb a few pages back, the killer was very familiar with Sonia, her home and the area where Sonia's body was disposed of. There is nothing that suggests otherwise. The one man stands out. Never dna tested. If not he, I would suggest he was being setup by someone with motive and the necessary inside information to do so. It would be masterful to pull this off. Those are really the only two choices imo.  The mathematical odds of all this circumstance pointing at one man and being entirely coincidental are too high. IMO It crosses a line..

This one man stands in the way, he serves as a stumbling block to any further meaningful investigation imo. This is how it Will end too imo. Who is responsible for allowing this situation ? Why? If due some alibi, dna trumps any possibilities. If just due legalities, why then the 700 plus dna dragnet conducted here? If a ruse? For what reason?  Who are they fooling? It appears to be us imo. This perp slips a little further out of reach everyday while everyone waits for some new evidence that never comes. I doubt those two in the gazebo are it. You have to go back to what happened with Sonia's male friend for him to be exonerated and allowed to leave the country without being dna tested. Only then can anyone get any further. Sonia deserved better than the bs being served. IMO
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 04, 2014, 05:37:51 AM
I feel the video is irrelevant to the crime.  I'm not sure what the laws are regarding perps residing in other countries but would definitely like to know.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 04, 2014, 09:50:23 AM
I got the impression that the police would like to speak to these two individuals in the grainy video, as they appeared, upon leaving the gazebo,  to be looking over at the spot where Sonia's car was parked.  It looks as though they heard a sound, and both looked in that direction at the same time.  Therefore the cops would like to know if they saw anything. And they are asking the public to identify these two, in case they do not come forward, so that police can ask these questions.

JB
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2014, 11:39:44 AM
The Police update this year does make it appear that they deem some importance to what these two saw. Also makes it appear that they have nothing left to investigate and that the case has come to a stand still save this. Just looking at the distance between where these two were and where the car was left, how much detail could they have seen?  Maybe enough to say whether there were one or two people involved and maybe a general description of another vehicle if there were one. Personally I suspect all they would have seen was a car pull in quickly, vehicle shut down, a door slam, and a dark figure heading away into the shadows. I doubt the getaway vehicle was parked right there. Doesn't match the profile of the perp. 

I believe the Police knew pretty well right from when Sonia's body was found where most of the indicators led. The brunt of circumstantial evidence crossed a thresh hold that can't be discounted and should have dictated the focus of the investigaton. Yet we see an almost bizarre degree of avoidance in regard this. It is not generally understandable by any standard explanation. I suppose that leaves the conspiracy door open but it is really just the lack of information and the lack of credibility coming from the investigators that is being reflected here. Perhaps they have explanations and if they do they sorely need to provide one asap imo. These little diversionary updates each year do nothing to address the huge underlying discrepancies.

The media out there need to have the guts like the reporters pushing for info on the Dana Bradley murder. Public pressure along with diligent pointed persistant questioning and reporting are a requirement.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on November 05, 2014, 03:27:05 PM
hi all. I was recently on holiday in the US and met a senior crime investigator (american -- forget what his title actually is) and I spent some time with him talking about Sonia's case. I tried my best to give details with as little interpretation or opinion as possible and asked him for his thoughts. I don't think there was anything overly promising in his answer -- no "eureka" possibilities for which I was hoping. I'm not going to post all of what he said but one thing that kind of stood out to me -- not sure if anyone here or on WS has mentioned this before -- is that when vehicles are commandeered by perps, there are almost always (he said) finger prints left on the rear-view mirror. Almost always. If, on the other hand, the mirror is wiped clean, THAT gives another kind of very clear profile of the killer: able to think clearly and ahead (and may or may not indicate pre-med for the crime; for example, wearing gloves will not fully remove other prints, and so is not the same as wiping). Did LE get prints from Sonia's mirror? Was it wiped clean or are there patches where print is removed from gloves? Sonia was not a tall woman and this perp, we might imagine, was probably keen to keep an eye on traffic behind him. Wouldn't it would be safe  to assume that mirror was adjusted? What does LE know or have re: the evidence specifically there?

btw: the expert I spoke with did not see this perp as a "risk-taker" in terms of "reckless" or intoxicated behaviour -- but, in fairness, that may be because that is my own opinion, and I may have unconsciously, despite my best intention, described the details in a "leading" way to produce a similar response.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2014, 07:18:07 PM
I have heard about checking the rear view mirror in crime shows before...also the position of the seat can be a clue.  I wonder if the perp would've used the seatbelt...since to not use one could possibly draw a Cop's attention to you.....and sometimes it's possible to get prints from the seatbelt?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on November 05, 2014, 09:25:27 PM
Jobo, good Qs. We've talked about the position of the seat here before (and/or on WS) -- whether LE could guess a height measurement by re-positioning.... Not sure if seatbelt prints were ever discussed (or the mirror).  I wish LE would release details: was the mirror wiped? Or like in the "almost always" scenario do they have a fingerprint? Is that what the DNA evidence is? Sigh. It's so depressing that so much time has passed and we seem to have no more answers.

On the upside: the man I met spoke a little about the many cases he's been involved with that were more than 5 years old and solved after being "cold" ... so I keep reminding myself not to give up on justice for Sonia yet.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2014, 12:30:43 PM
re: THAT gives another kind of very clear profile of the killer: able to think clearly and ahead (and may or may not indicate premed for the crime]THAT gives another kind of very clear profile of the killer: able to think clearly and ahead (and may or may not indicate premed for the crime

More and more the info we have is suggesting some degree of premed imo too... The speed at which the perp operated from time of scream til departure didn't leave any room for dithering. Decisions were made so quickly and accomplished so efficiently that pre med is a definite consideration. Would also mean that the perp was very familiar with Sonia, her home, whereabouts of keys, lights, familiarity with garage, maybe even neighbours habits. A profile gets added to and built on with each new piece of info. It points the direction.

As far as the mirror and belt prints, seat position etc, all of that is well known in the professional forensics departments, just not so widely disseminated amongst gen public. If all that had not been tested for I'd be surprised and even more suspicious.   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on November 07, 2014, 06:25:48 PM

As far as an opinion that Sonia's killer was not a risk taker--I think that his action of returning her car to a public place is exactly the risky action that has the experts literally stunned.  Premeditated murder or not, this action was brazen and reckless, regardless of ANY reason to do so.  If, for example, the killer had a car, or bike near Sonia's house, he could have driven her car back from the body disposal site to a hidden, obscure place and walked.  If he had no means of transportation, he would have done the same thing.

The same holds true, if the opinion is that the killer "wasn't drunk", high on drugs or mentally insane.  Every experienced crime investigator, including the FBI, is stumped to explain why he risked returning her car, if not for these reasons.

If he was drunk, high or insane, he might have moved her body from the townhouse on whim, mania or panic.  If he was a repeat offender on file, or likely to be a suspect, he might have been savvy enough to do so to get rid of evidence.  My guess, as I've stated before, is that he wanted to distance himself from her body being found in his neighbourhood.  JMO   

I want to add another possible perp, not already mentioned above, one who would savagely kill her, remove her body from her condo, (distance himself) and who would be reckless enough to drive her car back to the the vicinity...a young, unstable male who lived near Sonia.  A teenager who became friendly with her when she moved into the neighbourhood, or just fantasied about her; then became fixated on her, and possibly felt rejected by an unsuspecting Sonia.  She may have met him before and answered her door when he came knocking.

But I'm sure that LE would request a DNA sample from any male in Sonia's area, and this young guy would be on their radar if he refused. Maybe he is on their suspect list.  I'm not giving up hope that Sonia's case won't be solved.

Modified to add more thoughts.



 



 

   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 08, 2014, 01:40:40 AM
re:
Quote
A teenager who became friendly with her when she moved into the neighbourhood, or just fantasied about her; then became fixated on her, and possibly felt rejected by an unsuspecting Sonia.  She may have met him before and answered her door when he came knocking.


I'm not quite sure if you are giving us new info here HF or just hypothesizing?

Quote
If, for example, the killer had a car, or bike near Sonia's house, he could have driven her car back from the body disposal site to a hidden, obscure place and walked.

The killer had to do it for his own reasons. The time stamp on the gazebo video is a big indicator. He was running out of time, daylight was approaching. If his own vehicle were parked nearby, (I suspect it was) he needed it out of there fast. No time for a long walk or risk being spotted on nearly deserted public streets early in the morning possibly still covered  in blood. I believe this was a calculated risk borne out of necessity. Which is riskier, disposing of Sonia's car in broad daylighjt and having your own vehicle discovered near the scene of the crime or risking one quick stop and getting out of there quickly while still under cover of darkness?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on November 08, 2014, 12:06:23 PM
I agree, D1. He was likely covered in blood -- based on the description of the amount of blood at Sonia's home, the blood on her step, the blood on the trunk of her car; I believe he carried her wrapped in very bloody sheets and was quite covered in blood himself. He would have been noticeable and memorable walking in the streets at those hours by ANY eyewitnesses -- including people he himself might not notice, just driving in the streets -- but he'd be ESPECIALLY vulnerable to anyone walking or driving or looking out their windows close enough to see his appearance. And THAT could have lead to a very good description and a 911 call, neither of which we have here. It is so much harder to give a description of a driver unless you're very close -- and then, of course, you have to have reason to suspect a vehicle (and I'm not sure that the "screams" and "tires squeeling" descriptions from a neighbour are wholly related; I know, I know --- we could have a whole other discussion about that here).  I believe he parked his car at or near the tack shop before he walked to sonia's house before the crime, drove her car after so there would be minimal "evidence" in his own, and thus had to return. But I can see the equal merit of the view that he lives in town, and needed a less visible/more covered way for walking home.....
I do understand why some of us here think he's a "risk-taker" because it is certainly very audacious (I know that's not exactly the right word; I can't actually find one that properly fits) to take Sonia, and her car, after such a heinous act -- but  on the other hand I  think rushing walking into the street very likely visibly covered in blood is more "panicky" -- and more risky. I base this in the idea that her removed her because he wanted to delay investigation and contaminate evidence -- although your idea, Have Faith, that he has connections to the neighbourhood  and removed her for some psychological distanciation is also very plausible.
moo
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on November 08, 2014, 01:43:51 PM


Quote

    A teenager who became friendly with her when she moved into the neighbourhood, or just fantasied about her; then became fixated on her, and possibly felt rejected by an unsuspecting Sonia.  She may have met him before and answered her door when he came knocking.



"I'm not quite sure if you are giving us new info here HF or just hypothesizing?"



Sorry--pure speculation on my part.  HF
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 08, 2014, 05:05:25 PM
Have Faith, I have not commented for some time on Sonia's case. We have went over just about everything there is to go over. But I always felt myself that it is some young person, who was out drinking and possibly way over the limit that night. I think they may have been angry at someone else and took it out on Sonia. I believe they encountered her at some point and just attacked her. I still feel that the person who committed this crime is still in her neighbourhood. It could be a teen, someone who is strong and atletic, but was never in the headlights for breaking the law. Someone knows who came home that night and I'd say they are holding a deep secret. It is a buddy of someone, a girlfriend, someone who took an explanation which was a lie. Somebody came home late that evening and lied. There also could have been two people involved in this crime. I do urge anyone who feels that someone should be checked out for this crime, to please go to your police station and indicate your feelings. You maybe afraid for your safety. Please call Crime Stoppers and give your information on this case. Nobody should get away with this vicious murder on a young woman.  These are my opinions on this case. When people are drunk and under the influence of drugs, they have no concept of who is around. It is just lucky for him there was no one. This is why I believe this person was under the influence of drugs or alcohol. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on November 08, 2014, 05:52:29 PM
If this person was drunk or under the influence of drugs, then he would have made mistakes and left evidence. Also if this was the case,how did he drive to where he dumped her and all the way back without drawing attention?
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 08, 2014, 06:26:40 PM
All good HF, fine to do so so long as we know. Also helps to see where you are coming from in regard the evidence trail. Reading between the lines a bit, a general profile in a situation like this would include the young offender type. Like Shelly Loader maybe even Audrey Gleave. I speculate a bit that probabilities of a young offender are spawned more to do with lack of actual detail in regard motive, sexual or otherwise.

Jb gave a pretty good summary a while back which I'll post a link too when I get the time. But in general it spelled out the difference in the level of familiarity between say a neighbor /stalker /arms length type acquaintance and a much closer inside type acquaintance. It was quite strongly suggested by LE even very early on before all the info was in that the circumstance led them to believe the killer and Sonia knew each other. Its the degree of that familiarity which shows just how close the perp was to Sonia.

The factual side of this or any other case on here doesn't usually change much. Wading through detail to get  to the important points can result in differing interpretations. The high degree of familiarity found here is one of those cross roads that needs to be looked at closely and taken into consideration prior interpretation imo.. Everything gets built upon whatever foundation is laid.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: discus on November 08, 2014, 07:59:33 PM
If I remember correctly, the theory was that Sonia was removed from her home to prevent those close to her from finding her. 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 08, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
That was said and was backed up by the fbi profiling site as the most common reason why victims are removed from a home. Almost always by some one close to the victim and family, almost never by a stranger. 

The intoxication theory was brought up way back as an explanation for actions that seemed unexplainable in any other way at the time. Since then we have more information which minimizes intoxication as being any sort of primary motivator. There may be some degree of intoxication but its not a requirement to explain what we are seeing. imo too
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2014, 12:30:03 PM
I wonder at times how so many different theories seem to arise in many of the unsolved cases. Most of the users on here have been here for some time and for the most part are quite experienced in looking at and understanding details of investigations. Murder investigations have become more a science over time which should lead to more universal conclusions. It is all well and good to keep discussion going, keeping an open mind and all, but seems to me that in order to mount and generate any sort of public pressure you eventually have to attain some sort of common consensus. The media pays more attention when everyone is saying and asking the same questions. I wonder if it is even counterproductive to have too many different theories in play?   

The factual details provided in any case should narrow the possibilities to a few probabilities. From there it is often a lack of evidence that prevents a perpetrator from being identified and charges from being laid. What separates Sonia from many of the other unsolved cases is that there seems to be something else going on that doesn't fit with any standard explanation.

Every minute detail has been dragged out and discussed over and over again to the point we all know what we are dealing with here. This juncture we are speaking of in the last few pages in regard to just  how closely acquainted Sonia was with her killer seems to be a bit of a stumbling block. Theories diverge from there. Is this caused by Police now focusing elsewhere instead of those people who were closest to Sonia?  Are we more interpreting Police action than actual evidence? Are we making a jump, a leap of faith that the authorities must have some undisclosed evidence that leads them in this direction? Thus we follow despite the contradition where the actual evidence seems to lead? I am having trouble understanding this. 

If this were a standard investigation I believe the evidence easily shows that this murder was committed by someone very close to Sonia. It shows a high degree of familiarity with Sonia, her home, her car, and the location where Sonia's body was found. It is a lone individual for many of the reasons Have faith pointed out regarding why return the car and not drop it off elsewhere. If we truthfully looked further into that, we find an off and on boyfriend of Sonia’s who lived only a few blocks away from where Sonia’s body was found a twenty minute drive away from Sonia's hom. We find that he was also the last person to have spoken with Sonia shortly before she was murdered. Rarely does all the circumstances line up so well and point in a single direction.

One would at least do dna testing on this individual given the circumstance prior testing 700 strangers would you not think? This is the crux of he matter, apparently he has not been tested. Whether due some legality or some other unsaid complication. This is where it ends. This is what has to be addressed before any other possibilities can be seriously entertained in all reality. There is too much pointing in one direction to just discount and move along. No matter how far one looks, no one else aligns as well with the facts as this person.

As long as Sonia’s murder remains unsolved, this will remain the number 1 question. May as well press for answers sooner than later. The public is fickle, time does not play well for victims. This does not mean that anyone is guilty, it does call for due process to be uniformly administered.

Recently a long cold case out in Newfoundland got new legs through local media paying attention to mounting public pressure and the Police had to answer some questions. In that case, one man was also being singled out as a possible killer. There is a means available to investigators to either prove or disprove the allegations in that case. The same is available to authorities for Sonia via dna. The media reports of the Newfoundland case show they can report in a situation as this but just not use the poi name. Perhaps the Orangeville media should consider the same?
See Dana Bradley Newfoundland   
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=1847.180 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=1847.180)
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on November 09, 2014, 02:22:06 PM
I agree, D1. What most of us agree on and repeatedly lament here is that we wish we had more info. We've discussed before that the "on-and-off-again" bf may well have been tested and cleared; he may have volunteered DNA *OR* been asked for it even before LE announced they "believe" they have the killer's DNA -- and before, during or after he was already publicly declared a nonPOI. We just don't know....
Also: the crime expert I spoke with said LE can deliberately mislead the public if they believe it will serve a purpose useful to their investigation; I asked if it would be possible that the 700+ DNA testings (or whatever we're supposed to be up to at this point) could actually be a number more like 12 and he said of course....  (My Q was motivated by my fear that there is no DNA evidence and the first volunteer request was a smoke-out....) I'm not AT ALL saying LE has not collected that volume of DNA samples -- only that the person I spoke with said that is not an impossible scenario....
Sigh.
All I can do is continue to hope LE has more in hand than we suspect, and are just waiting on the bit of evidence that will allow them to move in full force.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2014, 04:10:05 PM
There may be something to that Sm using the dna story as a ruse to see if someone would willingly submitt to testing or not. The problem with that is the one person who was the most obvious candidate for testing was supposedly cleared by LE and allowed to leave the country before testing was authorized. If you are going to use this sort of tactic, some process needs to be in place to force testing on the non compliers. Otherwise what has been accomplished? I watched the movie about Russell Williams recently and noted one strange comment. When suspicion was mounting on Williams but prior them having enough proof even for a warrant, they were cautioned not to spook him as he may be a flight risk and they didn't have enough evidence to stop him.

If we look at this in that same light, a lawyered up poi with foreign citizenship may be able to pull off the same. If so, we are seeing evidence of a flawed process, bureaucratic bungling, Police ineptitude, and or any other similar sorts of red tape issues being concealed by the authorities.  All this dating site stuff, checking every stranger with same type boots, the supposed 700 dna tests is just smoke and mirrors to cloud the real issue. Why go to these lengths? The focus should be on how to undo and rectify whatever transpired, not to cover it up and prevent attention from being directed at the problem. Maybe someone did rush to exonerate and left the escape hatch open. Should covering that up take precedent and end any chances for justice?  Someone has made that choice imo..

I know we all want to have hope and for some that means maintaining faith in LE and the system that they are honestly working on the problem. All I see here is the public being kept from the truth and from having the ability to mount any concerted effort to address the real issues. Who is being duped? If the killer has been asked to provide a dna sample and has refused, he knows that LE have suspicions and are on to him. Its just us who patiently await. I don't believe its new evidence that is required. Have they even applied for a dna warrant? I bet not.. There are other motives behind the lack of progress that we are not being told. Who's covering for who and why? Informed pointed direct questioning is required. I still have hopes for Sonia, I just don't see any hope in the present course of action. Until that changes, we are seeing the end right now. imo

And so I bring it up once again, as one more year passes.  In hope someone somewhere will read and some sort of action will be initiated. Consensus is a tough thing to attain especially in situations as this. We all have our own experiences and cemented ideas on how our system works.  Is there enough here to at least gain acceptance that this does warrant further questioning? What barriers still need to be crossed to get there?   
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Have faith on November 09, 2014, 05:57:11 PM
Surely Sonia's parents would have asked for and received confirmation that the bf was properly and absolutely cleared as a suspect.  Would he have been included in Sonia's obituary, and apparently remained friends without that confirmation?  I can't imagine any parent who would list a possible suspect in their daughter's obit.  In stories that I have heard, the families were told by LE, when a main suspect known to them, was cleared.  After all, LE would be alert to the danger of a savage killer remaining close with the victim's family.  The family would share the same concerns.  I know that I would!


Quote
It is all well and good to keep discussion going, keeping an open mind and all, but seems to me that in order to mount and generate any sort of public pressure you eventually have to attain some sort of common consensus. The media pays more attention when everyone is saying and asking the same questions. I wonder if it is even counterproductive to have too many different theories in play?
 

It is true that the bf fits the few known circumstances in this case.   Different theories will be presented, due to fact that LE aren't providing info, he has been publicly cleared by LE, he doesn't exclusively fit the circumstances, he didn't show prior signs of having the disposition for such rage and violence, and he hasn't been arrested.  More theories will be considered the longer this remains unsolved, but at this time, I don't see any wild theories that distract from logical thinking and are counter-productive.  We don't know if the bf killed Sonia, therefore, all logical speculation and questioning is productive- and isn't that what we do here on UC?  Yes, we ALL would like to know for sure that the bf was properly cleared.  Hopefully, someone will pose this direct question to Sonia's family.   



Modified to include the quote.
 
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2014, 07:48:54 PM
One of Sonia's friends was interviewed awhile back. Fairly recent article. In it she spoke of Sonia's parents and how they weren't being told anything. Like total silence from the Police. They were devastated. Sonia's family believed the Police at the time when they cleared the on/off bf. Now? Bf has left the country, no danger here now.

IMO, he is the only one who fits the profile and circumstances. As far as we can tell, he is also the only one cleared without being tested against the killers dna. The only report said, "cleared by routine questioning"

I undersand the rational to some degree for all that you state Hf. Evidence based speculation is fine. It is the leap of faith one must employ to get past this one individual that defies standard logic. Rarely and I mean very rarely do you see so close a connection to a murder victim and so close a connection to a body disposal location with that much distance in between. It isn't the same neighborhood. Both locations show extreme familiarity with the killer. The coincidence factor in that alone is way above the norm. The person in last contact with a victim is always top of the poi list. Put that together with LE profile and it is very hard to get around this individual.

Hf, If you or anyone else does seek more understanding there is an educational factor in play here too that may provide some explanations for the position you state.

Quote
he didn't show prior signs of having the disposition for such rage and violence, and he hasn't been arrested.

An event was about to happen the following day that may have precipitated a moment of rage. Sonia was having a friend from afar come to visit her. By all accounts male. On /off bf may have left his wife and had high hopes for a life with Sonia. Hopes dashed at the news. He called her late the night of her murder.

No its not evidence but is closest to any sort of motive we have heard from anyone closely associated with Sonia. It fits with the timing. As far as no priors, that is entirely probable and if you check the fbi profile stats, first time killers more often than not hide their victims close to where they live, where they are most familiar and have some sort of comfort zone. If serial killers are suspected, Police always seek out the first victim for that reason, the killer very likely lived close by. Sonia's on/off bf lived just a few blocks from where Sonia's body was found.

This guy isn't a serial killer. imo. unless Sonia is his first.  A one time act of passion possibly fueled by some sort of intoxicant to give him that final push over that edge.

Any suspect in any case has to match both evidence and profile. It all has to fit together. I don't see any better fit anywhere on the horizon and highly doubt I will.

Sonia's parents and friends would be a good start for some questions. LE is not going to be helpful without concerted public pressure and media support. This is not a job for Sonia's parents alone. They have been through enough already.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: 2soccermom on November 09, 2014, 07:58:34 PM
....
Sonia was having a friend from afar come to visit her. By all accounts male.
....
rsbm.

D1, where has it been stated that the friend was a man? I can't find that info.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 09, 2014, 08:14:41 PM

Surely Sonia's parents would have asked for and received confirmation that the bf was properly and absolutely cleared as a suspect.  Would he have been included in Sonia's obituary, and apparently remained friends without that confirmation?  I can't imagine any parent who would list a possible suspect in their daughter's obit.  In stories that I have heard, the families were told by LE, when a main suspect known to them, was cleared.  After all, LE would be alert to the danger of a savage killer remaining close with the victim's family.  The family would share the same concerns.  I know that I would!

It is true that the bf fits the few known circumstances in this case.   Different theories will be presented, due to fact that LE aren't providing info, he has been publicly cleared by LE, he doesn't exclusively fit the circumstances, he didn't show prior signs of having the disposition for such rage and violence, and he hasn't been arrested.  More theories will be considered the longer this remains unsolved, but at this time, I don't see any wild theories that distract from logical thinking and are counter-productive.  We don't know if the bf killed Sonia, therefore, all logical speculation and questioning is productive- and isn't that what we do here on UC?  Yes, we ALL would like to know for sure that the bf was properly cleared.  Hopefully, someone will pose this direct question to Sonia's family.   


Nicely said Have Faith.

Yes, it would be nice if someone would pose the question to Sonia's family as to whether the bf has been properly cleared. That information could then be included or taken out of the equation, once and for all.   

As has been mentioned, logical speculation and questioning regarding the bf is productive. That is also true of any other logical scenario in regard Sonia's murder. While the bf appears to fit the known circumstances in this case, he doesn't exclusively fit the circumstances. Remaining open to all possibilities is imperative.     

That having been said, it is important to keep in mind that the bf has not been named a suspect in this case by LE, and in fact has been cleared. We the public have not been told exactly what method was used to clear him.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: Ron on November 09, 2014, 09:13:05 PM
Is it possible that they may think Sonia's boy friend was involved, but cannot get him back to Canada? According to this site the UK does not have an extradition with Canada. Am I reading it correctly?

                                 http://www.answers.com/Q/Which_countries_do_not_have_extradition_treaties_with_the_United_Kingdom
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2014, 10:14:15 PM
It appears that is the case. No extradition treaty. However things are changing and what was may not hold. Authorities here can still make an application for a variance. It has to go through the process though with no guarantees. It does have to begin with an official application. Was that done?

The exact wording for how the bf was cleared is in one of the early news articles. I believe it was very similar to if not exactly this " he was cleared by routine questioning" This was asked previously and a link to the news article was provided at the time.

2Sm, the story about the person who showed up to visit Sonia has been removed. We refered to it earlier on and it was originally found on Sonia's facebook page.

I completely understand that given the ex bf has not been charged that this can be considered problematic for discussion. However Dana Bradley is showing us it is legal and permissible to have this discussion and even for it to be reported in mainstream news.  As long as no names are being used. It is just as important in either case to clear as many parties as possible in order to move along.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2014, 01:08:20 AM
A few quotes from early on part 1

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“We believe that Sonia’s killer is very familiar with Orangeville, with the outskirts of Orangeville, Sonia’s neighbourhood, Sonia’s townhouse — and potentially Sonia herself,” Pritchard said. OPP said earlier they believe the killer used Varaschin’s white Toyota to move her body from her home to the wooded area where it was found.

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O-P-P Detective-Inspector Mark Pritchard says evidence suggests the 42-year-old was not attacked by a stranger, but likely by someone she knew.

from -Dew part1
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re Sonia's last contact:  At the presser today, LE declined to answer where and/or by whom Sonia was last seen. 

Strange, as that type of info is normally considered helpful in a public appeal.

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This is when a killer really starts to sweat.

“Nobody can outsmart three crime scenes,” explains Mark Mendelson, a former detective with the Toronto Police homicide squad.

He should know. During his 14 years on the squad, he investigated more than 100 murders.


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Former Toronto police homicide investigator Steve Reesor said in an interview that it’s very possible they have an eye on a suspect.“For all you know, they do have a suspect and they’re working that suspect,” Reesor said.

 
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Remembered as a vibrant, loving woman who loved the outdoors, Michele said not having answers about her daughter’s death, “drives me crazy.”

And, being kept in the dark about the investigation hasn’t helped, she said.

To this day, we know nothing,” she said. “I don’t believe they should have the right to keep a family in a situation like that.”


There is an air of secrecy behind all of this.. The shift away from the early profile to the actions we have seen since have no standard explanation. Sonia's last day, her last contacts, all being secreted.

Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2014, 05:29:02 AM
That last quote you posted D1,  made me think that the family DOES know the killer...but LE cannot tell them who it is until they have a case against him.  If it was a stranger, I'm sure the Police would be more forthcoming with info for the family.  Poor souls.
Title: Re: Sonia Varaschin | 42 | Orangeville | Murder | August 29, 2010 | Part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2014, 10:19:00 AM
I have the same feeling about why the Varaschins are being treated the way they are. The family knows the killer but are unaware he is and they may have still been in contact with him. Under those circumstances, they would be kept completely in th