Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Alberta Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Alberta Locations => Topic started by: Chris on April 04, 2007, 12:19:47 AM

Title: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 04, 2007, 12:19:47 AM

(http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/img/nghp1016.jpg)

Name: Kelly Jane Evelyn COOK

Location: Standard, Alberta (AB)

Details: Kelly Jane Evelyn COOK, a 15 year-old female, lived with her parents in the village of Standard, Alberta, which is located 70 kilometers northeast of Calgary, Alberta.

On April 22, 1981, at 8:20 A.M., Kelly received a phone call from a man identifying himself as Bill CHRISTENSEN. The caller asked if she would babysit that evening. Kelly agreed and arrangements were made for the caller to pick up Kelly at her residence.

At 8:30 P.M., a full-sized North American car pulled up in front of the COOK?s residence. The unidentified male and Kelly were last seen departing the residence. Kelly was not seen alive again. Her body was discovered in the Chin Lake Reservoir (east of Lethbridge, Alberta) on June 28, 1981.

It is believed that the perpetrator of this crime had planned the abduction over a one or two-month period.

A one hundred thousand dollar reward ($100,000.00) from the Village of Standard is offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator of this crime.

If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cold_case/cook_kelly_e.htm

Here is a sketch of the suspect
Here is a sketch of the suspect: (There is word a suspect was known in Warner Alberta, but has since been murdered himself. If anyone can add to that or confirm, please let us know.)

He was 30 - 40 years old.
ABout 5 foot 10 inches and 160 pounds
Medium to heavy build
Round face with swarthy complexion
Hands and face were weather beaten
Clean shaven, short fark hair
Had a blue windbreaker with possible company logo or emblem on it.
Driving a 1978 or newer (remember, this is 1981) Chysler or GMC full size, light color, possibly pale with Alberta plates.
Stocky
Dark hair and eyebrows
Abrupt mannerisms
Often props his sun glasses on his head.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 05, 2007, 02:21:57 PM
I think the RCMP 'know' who did this. From reading the cold case article in 2005, they seemed to imply that a person was questioned but no proof was found. For this to be planned for months does also seem like the person must have known her.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 06, 2007, 12:16:39 AM
The weird thing about Standard is that it is not a route anyone would use unless you needed to be in the area. North is Rosebud and south is highway #1. It is not a shortcut to anything, it's not a town you just pass thru. Maybe I will send an e-mail to the village of standards website and see if anyone can give more details.
Chin resevoir does seem like a place in which a person driving down highway 3 would use to make a quite dump while heading to thier next destination. Is that close to the hamlet of Chin?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 06, 2007, 12:47:59 PM
I sent a note asking for more info. I hope to hear back after Easter.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on June 18, 2007, 01:24:51 AM
It was something that just didn?t happen back then ? especially in a small town.

But the worst kind of crime imaginable struck the village of Standard with the abduction and murder of 15-year-old Kelly Cook.

It?s a case that captured the attention of people across the country, and nearly a quarter century later, Walter and Marion Cook have yet to give up hope the monster who took their daughter and left her dead hundreds of kilometres away will be found.

But with that hope is the resignation that after nearly 25 years, they might never know why their little girl had to die.

The predator responsible could be long-dead or even rotting away in a jail cell.

The ordeal began for the Cook family on April 22, 1981.

Kelly received a call about 8:30 a.m. from a man identifying himself as Bill Christensen ? a resident of the village 80 km east of Calgary ? who asked if the teen could babysit that evening.

She agreed and arrangements were made for the man to pick her up at the family?s Standard home.

Walter said he had just gotten home from a long day at work and was practically walking through the door when Kelly was leaving around 8:30 p.m.

?Kelly said ?Hi dad, bye dad, I?m going babysitting? and she was gone,? Walter said.

Kelly was last seen getting into a full-sized North American car, but her parents never got a look at the man who whisked her away forever.

She would never be seen alive again and within an hour, Marion knew something was amiss.

?We had a deal when Kelly was babysitting that she would phone when she got there and she never phoned,? Marion said.

?I started phoning her friends, I phoned the postmistress to ask if anyone new moved to town and I called my friend at the bank and asked her, too.?

When those calls yielded nothing, the police were called.

Meanwhile, at about 10 that night, a call was placed to an operator from a pay phone in Hussar, about 25 km away.

All the operator heard before the call was cut short was the sound of a woman or a girl screaming.

Police believe that call might very well been from Kelly.

Over the following days, dozens of police and hundreds of volunteers from across the province scoured the area around the small village.

But as each day passed, hope that Kelly would be found alive dwindled.

?Those days, I carried a shotgun around with me while we were searching, and if I?d have found him, I would have shot him,? Walter said.

Two months after Kelly?s disappearance, on June 28, the Cook family received the worst possible news ? Kelly?s clothed remains were found in the Chin Lakes Reservoir ? about 200 km southeast of Calgary.

Her body had been tied to cinder blocks and tossed into the water.

Calgary RCMP Cpl. Andy Johnson, who is the lead investigator on the file today, said when the body was found it was in an advanced state of decomposition and there was no obvious cause of death.

?My belief is that Kelly was killed shortly after the kidnapping ? she wasn?t held for very long,? Johnson said.

?I think the brazenness of the offence is what?s unique in this, I don?t think we?ve seen anything as brazen as this.?

He said it?s likely the crime was planned by a man over a two-month period, by someone who was probably living in the area at the time.

?Our basic theory is that Kelly had not been the intended target originally,? Johnson said.

In March of that year, a photo ran in a local paper of a girl from a figure skating club.

It?s believed the same man who would eventually abduct and murder Kelly Cook saw the photo and phoned the Standard school, assertively trying to get information about the girl from the principal.

The principal refused, but the man managed to find the girl?s number.

On April, 18 he phoned the girl, whom police have never identified publicly, and asked her if she could babysit.

She said no, but passed on Kelly?s name, not knowing that it would lead to her friend?s death.

The killer is about 5-ft.-10 with a medium to heavy build. He would have been between 30 and 45 years old back in 1981 and he had brown hair, a square face, wide nose and sideburns.

He was driving a medium or full-size, light-coloured North American car.

Kelly would have been 40 this year, and despite having happened so long ago, the case still generates two or three tips a year, police say.

Her parents, while they would like closure, said they have moved on from the ordeal as much as anyone can, as they had two other children to raise.

?Today, we would more or less like to know why,? Walter said.

?It?s getting up there and it?s getting harder and harder to solve ? I?m sure the guy hasn?t kept it to himself.?

? ? ? ? ?

Anyone with information about who might be responsible for the death of Kelly Cook is asked to call Cpl. Johnson at the Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section, at (403) 699-2611, or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477.

A reward of $100,000 is offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Kelly?s killer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on June 18, 2007, 01:28:20 AM
Notice on the article I posted above that a man whom the police know, had asked about baby sitting and that female passed on Kelly's name to that man to babysite. I am certain this person had to have been a suspect. I wrote to the town of Standard but no one e-mailed, called or wrote me back.

I hope that with advances in DNA and stuff that more info will become available. Calling from a payphone in Hussar is strange. I bet the person must have gotton out to get gas or something and she ran out???

I wish we had more info, for some reason this case in particular is very troubling to me and I find myself thinking about it often. The killer is still out there.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: kindheart on January 01, 2008, 12:41:36 AM
This is some photos of where Kelly cooks remains were located two months later.

(http://www.fishalberta.com/02Season/Jensen/CHINSIGN-VAN.jpg)


(http://www.fishalberta.com/02Season/Jensen/CHINBRIDGE.jpg)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: andy m on April 28, 2008, 10:24:37 AM
I was in high school when this happened. I have never forgotten Kelly and as my life evolves like my marriage my daughters birth her now attending the UofA I find myself thinking of Kelly Cook and all that this son of a bitch stole from her. This animal needs to pay for the life he took. To her Mother and Father my deepest sympathy. I am very happy to see you are still pursueing her killer.

This guy is still out there. From what i read about serial killers they tend to hunt their prey using the same MO. So there should be a history of similar crimes. I dont believe this guy new Kelly at all. He found someones name in a laundry mat advertising for a babysitter and that lucky person was busy but, she passed on the her friends Kelly's number. Its bizarre that he used such a remote small town and in tune an even remoter dump site. I think a closer look at traveling salesmen perhaps in the farm and agriculture sales needs to be investigated. This person would have traveled the area and would know these remote areas having visited them during normal business. Wasnt her murdur during the planting season? Another path look into any oil patch workers someone traveling home after spring break up. I really dont like this theory too much considering oil patch workers almost exclusively use trucks. This guy was too fluid he has done this before and he wasnt from the area. No one goes unnoticed in a small town. When i was very small i lived in the community of Delacour and my family knew everyone in the community. Is there someway one can email all the different police departments and see if they have any unsolved or similar murders in their area. Some how i just know if we could find a way to map out this guys movement and progression he could be caught and destroyed.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2008, 12:49:14 AM
Hi andy m,

There are no simular cases like this anywhere except in Ontario where someone use a ruse like that to lure a young female. I get the impression the police already know who, but are short of proof. The Calgary Sun had a write about this back in 05 and it seemed to give me that impression.

1981 was a bad year for Oil, the Feds pretty much shut everything down. Lots of people got jobs in the USA so at one time it was theorized that the person was heading south (to uSA maybe) since the body was found near Lethbridge.

I'd think the person who did this lived very close by. Afterall, Kelly did manage to get out and make a phone call from a payphone in the village of Hussar. I would guess this is where he lived.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2008, 01:37:42 AM
Yes my father in particular was one of the victims of teh National Energy Program. We moved to a border town with ND (in montana) in 1982ish and I know there was a lot of other Canadians who were doing the same thing. Most of the oil jobs were actually in North Dakota. I think Des's theory is a very valid one for sure.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 01, 2008, 04:21:01 AM
Isn't Glacier National Park in BC? Waterton is nearby though.

Is that the reporter who investigated the deaths of those 3 women in Montana for the news just before that? I remember reading about that, they just solved the case of the 3 murdered women.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 01, 2008, 06:13:48 AM
Opps! The american side of Waterton is called Glacier National Park. My error. There is one in BC too.

YEs, if you look under the solved section here, I put that info about that solved case in it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 01, 2008, 06:14:21 AM
Here is the link to the thread
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,932.0.html
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: andy m on May 05, 2008, 09:07:15 PM
I remember the 80s very well and Pierre Elliot Trudeau's one finger wave as he came west with his family to see first hand what his national energy program could do to a robust economy. We were one of a handful of families that held on to our home in Calgary's NE. The neighborhood was like a ghost town. Empty deserted houses left vacant by 21% mortgages.

Oil workers drive trucks usually 4x4s and i have worked rigs and know they can be a unsocial unruly bunch prone to fight over anything. This isn't the work of an oil rigger. I am trying my best to find any serial killer that was in the oil business. You can find lots of manslaughter cases but none that would lead me to suspect anything this planned or executed. This person wasnt a fledgling killer. He has done this before. Its daring and brazen and thats his excellerant. Its the capture. I have no idea about the phone call from Hussar but to me that doesnt seem out of line perhaps, Kelly did get a fleeting chance to escape and make a quick phone call. However there is not one shred of evidence that this had anything to do with the case. If? lets play devils advocate and say it was Kelly and perhaps the guy was from Hussar area. After killing Kelly he decides its not in his blood to kill innocent little girls and he fades away? No way this guy is out there and he can't stop. He is hard wired to the kill and to the chase. Its what he does that defines him.  Its like I am hard wired to like women particular women size hair colour demeanor. I have a friend that is Gay.(not out of the closet either) His life has been hard and anyone that thinks gay is a choice is ignorant. It boils down to what turns you on. Something in my friend probably from his birth makes him find men attractive. As hard as he tries to hide it by hunting and fishing and talking the talk. I see little signs and once at his house i seen a picture that i was clearly not suppose to see. I was shocked but it did confirmed my suspicions. He hid the picture when I left the room and i never approached the subject ever. It made me feel sad that my friend felt he had to hide this part of his life from me. I think this person is fantastic human being period. This guy might be able to live a normal life have kids a wife and such but what no one sees in him is what makes him tick. The secret that he tries everyday to keep pushed down. His every fantasy is based around this particular thought. He needs to capture secure and be in complete control of a lesser human being or one that his egomanical mind perceives as such. (Please forgive my callowness if Mr and Mrs Cook are reading this. Your daughter will always be in my heart and thoughts as i live my life and i hope someday to hear that this person is only minutes away from a nice leathal injection or better yet waiting to hear the clang of an electric chair as the lever is pulled.) This guy either died of an accident, maybe succumbed to an illness or is still doing what it is that makes him tick. No other way is this guy living the normal life. Taking other peoples lives for sport is not a thing you can turn off. Once you start killing people it becomes the persona of what defines you too yourself as who you are. The master the brilliant one the man in control. My exwifes Uncle used to be a traveling salesman that sold advertisment space on the sides of bowling lane score sheets. He used to travel to all these small towns and sell these advertising spaces to other area businesses. This is the type of guy that killed Kelly. A traveling sales person that had business in the area for a breif moment that spring of 1981. Not my wifes Uncle he was a short bald guy that was married and his wife traveled everywhere with him. I think the person is a traveling salesperson that was in the area. Someone who traveled alone and had alot of time on their hands. He would have a legitimate reason to be in the area and would have had a lot of time to scout out the area find the laundry matt. Most likely because he used it to wash his clothes while on the road. Look at all the posts. Pick out a victim and here we are today no further then the day Kelly was abducted and murdered. These parasites tend to pick out the easiest targets or ways of getting their victims into their hands. Picking up hookers is by far the easiest way. However this guys taste is not for hookers. He needs to be in control and would never go for a hooker that would probably make him her bitch. He wants to dominate and he can only do that if he can find little girls.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 06, 2008, 12:52:38 AM
Interesting post. First of all, our family was also one of those who suffered under NEP and we took off for Montana after that. It was horrible, never seen so many familes get up and leave like that.

When I read the calgary sun article a few years, I sort of got an impression that the police have a suspect in this. Finding small places like Hussar, which is out of the way you'd think the person would have to have been local.

There are other cases before of young girls being murdered or missing. This person could have been respsonsible for those too. And in fact, I was even wondering if this person may be in jail for another simular crime.

I really wish someone who had inside info could share more with us.

I do agree with how you feel about this kind of killer. I understand these kinds of killings is a pwerful force inside the person who does it. I wonder if this person (if alive and not in jail) drives back to Standard or the place he killed her just to relive the time.

A travelling sales person? Very well could have been, that would also fit the profile of the other young girls scatered throuout the west.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: andy m on May 07, 2008, 11:17:45 AM
Another thing that bothers me about this Husslar phone call incident. I have never been to Husslar so i really dont know if that small town has a gas station. This guy plans this abduction and calls three or four days in advance. I think I read somewhere he called on the Saturday or Sunday and doesnt pick Kelly up until the Wednesday night? Or am i totally clueless on this time line. Anyways my point is this guy somehow forgets to fill up with gas prior to picking Kelly up, so somehow he forgets to fill up prior to picking her up and has to stop to get gas. This animal was careful there is no way it didnt fill up with gas prior to the picking Kelly up. I will bet the animal stopped in this town very breifly found a number and called it. He set it up did his business perhaps a hundred miles away from Standard but had to travel back through this area to reach his home. Which leads me to believe he is more then likely to live in the USA. I think this would best fit why no one has come forward with any relevent information about the possible discription of this animal. He was in Standard for the laundry matt and then for the abduction. I dont think this animal was local. This animal has done this before. I love your site and i think if you could develope it into a North American wide crime posting site that could perhaps start linking similar crimes it would be a very effective tool in destroying these animals that prey on the weak and vulnerable. Like i said before this wasnt this animals first time. He is clever enough to maybe even have changed his MO. Very few serial killers stray from their normal fixation. Have any psychics been asked to give their two cents worth? I know i am grasping at straws but i would give anything to see this animal destroyed. i do hope that this guy is State side too at least they know what you do to animals that bite. You simply take them and destroy them. You dont warehouse them in safely guarded cells and feed them till they die. You arrange a nice little reunion between them and God. If you are the animal that did this and you like to see everyone come here and chase their tails looking for you. I guarantee you God knows what you have done. Karma is a wonderful power that intertwines everything the hell you are living only mirrors the life you have chosen. In the end you will be destroyed like you so justly deserve.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 08, 2008, 06:59:57 AM
There are plans on the USA site, do you have a lot of cases you are aware of? It will be www.unsolved.ws, you are welcome to add anything if you would like.

IF he is from the USA, then yes, there would be some simular cases. Des found one in North Dakota. Lots of Americans lived in Alberta at that time, and many still do.

I sure wish I could find out if the police have a suspect in mind though, I bet they do.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: andy m on May 08, 2008, 08:41:42 PM
Hi Chris, I have never heard that the police ever had a suspect in Kelly's murder. I know the Mother and daughter in Turner Valley they have a pretty good idea who did it. Matter of fact i have read the fellows name, its been published. That particular case the man still lives in the community and denies all involvement. That was more along the lines of a passion killing and fire cover up. Stranger abduction/murder is far harder to track. That is why this site is so important. The more people that can add their knowledge and perhaps get a workable field in which this guy operates would greatly increase the chance of this animal being caught. Remember the two guys that were going around Alberta I think it was in the late 80s early 90s. They took the girl out of the convenient store in either highriver or was it out of Okatoks? They took another lady from the highway who was broken down. Is there any chance those two could have been involved in Kelly's case. They were caught one committed suicide in prison the other died at the hands of an inmate. They liked to bludgeon and then burn their victims if i recall.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 11, 2008, 11:19:23 PM
Yes I recall that case in Turner Valley. A regular criminal would not kill a child, it would take hate. It is one of those sad cases where it seems the police know who, but short on solid evidence.

I never heard about that case in the 80's, that is really weird. It very well could be.

Yes, they have a person of interest in Standard I believe. I just hope that there is some evidence left for the RCMP to test. Back in 1981, the guy would have no idea what technology would become available.

FOr some reason, this case is of special interested to me. One that I hope has a positive conslusion.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: robkich on July 02, 2008, 08:02:35 PM
A lot of people in Warner Alberta believe Kelly's killer was a resident of their town.  He was shot and killed by his wife's boyfriend many years ago.  His personality and his circumstances around the time of her abduction pointed a finger in his direction.  At any rate, he is dead.  I'm sure the RCMP know about this suspect.  Warner is just south of Chin by 20 miles or so.....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on July 02, 2008, 09:48:56 PM
Wow, that is just weird. I went to Lethbridge today, and drove right by Warner on the way there.

That would make sense, Chin is on the way to Warner. Des had a theory this person was headed south the states, Warner is just a short drive to the border.

That is a very small town. Was he killed in Warner or somewhere else? Do you also know if he was a suspect in other cases or why he might have been in Standard?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: capeheart on July 02, 2008, 10:07:19 PM
This is an incredible thing to happen to someone who just wanted to make some extra money babysitting. She never should have gotten in a car with someone she did not know.  Her parents should have driven her to her jobs and got to know the people before she took any babysitting at all. I feel that it was someone in her home town also. I believe they saw the note and they just thought about it a while and got the nerve to carry it out. This could have been a person that was involved in sexual assault crimes in the area. I suppose the police have gone over all of those cases.  I hope something comes up so her mother and father can find peace.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on July 02, 2008, 10:30:12 PM
You have to remember that this happened in an era when people were far more trusting than they are today. For myself I would not have allowed my daughter to get in a car with a stranger but I think a lot of people probably would have. Hindsight is twenty twenty and we can always see what we should have done after the fact. I'm sure these parents have been living with what they think they should have done all this time, but that doesn't bring their daughter back and neither does it catch a killer. I also feel that he was probably travelling through and that this isn't the only time he has done something like this. To me it looks like it was premeditated.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on July 19, 2008, 05:21:32 PM
That is pretty simular. I think predators like to use the same MO each time. 75 - 81 were good years for the Oil Patch. Could have been a traveller. After 81, hundreds of thousands lost there jobs and moved to other places.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on July 27, 2008, 07:29:19 PM
I was a young child living in southern Alberta when Kelly was murdered. I remember somethings very well. Her murder has haunted me for years and I would love nothing more than for this family to find some answers. I remember that there was a composite sketch that was issued on a poster, it was in the grocery store window in the town that I lived in. And, if I recall correctly the girl (gymnast) who was the initial intended target was approached by the suspect while she was working (waitressing I believe). She could not babysit for him but gave him Kelly's name and number. I wonder why he would entertain the idea of changing targets when it appears he put a bit of time and energy into seeking out the first intended target. Why throw that all away? I think one of three things could have happened. Either he was geared up and was not ready to throw it away so decided that another victim would do. Or, he was on a strict timeline, which may support the 'travelling salesperson' theory, or, he was then afraid that because he already approached his intended victim first, that it would be too risky to try to get to her again, as he would have to try a different tactic, when obviously the babysitting approach was something easy and something he was comfortable with. Again, this MO has to have been used before. There is no way Kelly was this guy's first victim.

I have been hopeful that the DNA evidence thing would come into play eventually but I also wonder how much DNA is available/usable once there has been the stages of decomposition like in this case, where the body was in the water for some time.

Also I am sure that the police have checked it out, but it would be interesting to know where the telephone call to Kelly to ask her to babysit, came from. Likely a pay phone but who knows for sure.

I think it is possible that the person involved was perhaps temporarily staying with someone in the area. I don't think it would have been someone in the town, as the town is really small and a new person is really obvious, but in the outlying rural community. Also, this person was not afraid to show his face as the first intended victim saw him, not knowing he was going to be murderer. I think immediately after it happened the person left the area. Also, no indication has ever been given of where the crime occured. Chin Lake was clearly the disposal site, but did the murder occur there? and why this site? Convenience or a place that the murderer was familiar with?

So many unanswered questions.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on July 28, 2008, 06:25:33 PM
Hi haunted,

I do not recall this case when I was little. I lived in alberta too at the time.

Did they have a stetch of the guy they were looking for?

It would be great if they could extract DNA from anything to compare. I hope there is and the guy goes to prison.

There was a lot of Oil activity in that area in 1981, but that was the year the NEP threw the oil patch out of business basically and there was a lot of turmiol and people were beginning to leave etc. So yes, it could have been a visitor or person passing thru.

This is one case I hope is solved in my lifetime. That town is small so it seems rather odd it was never solved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on July 29, 2008, 01:49:04 PM
Hello Chris

Yes there definitely was a sketch made of the suspect, between the time that Kelly was abducted and her body was found. I will never forget the sketch because I, being a child, was so certain that I would see this man and solve the case. I committed it to memory. I am certain the sketch details would have been given by the first intended victim, because, as I said he came up to her, in person. Our family had a copy of the sketch at one time and I am double checking to see if my parents would still have a copy, but I am doubtful. Obviously the police would have it. What I am wondering is if the police could have it digitally aged enhanced or use the old sketch to compare to convicted murderers elsewhere to see if it is possible to confirm that responsible person is in fact in prison or received the DP in the states for something else.

I believe the police know quite a bit more than what has been revealed to the public.

It was lucky the body was even found when it was. It was only found because the reservoir in which it was in was very low due to excessive irrigation. I believe the body was found in June or so.

Because of the unusual circumstances surrounding this, it makes me think that it must be able to be linked to some other crimes. In your research, do you know, do some of these predators change their MO that drastically as to not repeat the same set up twice? I have to think it was done before because he was so confident and bold and smooth.

It concerns that this case, along with many others, has not received any media attention in years and years. The article from the Sun marking the 25th anniversary of Kelly's death is the only thing I have found in years, along with the RCMP's site. There was once an episode on Unsolved Mysteries about Kelly Cook and that was in the late 80's or maybe early 90's. I would think it would serve the RCMP well to bring these cases front and centre, even yearly. Bring back the sketch and pursue it more publicly.

Here's to keeping hope alive.

On an interesting note, at my local grocery store yesterday I found an ad from an 11 year old girl who reveals her name, age and phone number, looking for babysitting jobs over the summer. I may need to call her parents and ask them not to let their precious little one advertise herself in such a way, making this type of scenario all to easy for those who are actively lookin.

 

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on July 29, 2008, 02:49:30 PM
Quote
I believe the police know quite a bit more than what has been revealed to the public.

I'm sure they definetly do! In fact, I am certain they have a strong POI in this.

Desespre has done a lot of research, and in her work, they may have been simular cases in Toronto area and I think one in Edmonton.

Sometimes the reason teh police do not publicize certain cases could be they know who did it, and he is dead. But in this case, it does seem the police are still seeking tips and information so I assume he is alive. I do rememebr the article from the SUn 3 years ago and I got the impression they know who, just not enough proof.

They did afterall see his car, and it is probable someone in Hussar saw the perv when Kelly called home from the payphone there. Afterall, Hussar is very small and outsiders are easy to spot.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 02, 2008, 08:50:18 PM
Chris

I re-read the Sun article and the one sentence where they say the name was not made public, I think they are referring to the friend of Kelly's, the figure skater, which would make sense that she would be protected, after all she was a targetted victim. I don't think they are referring to the murderer.

While I do not have access to the sketch of the suspect from 1981, I was considering calling the officer involved in the cold cases in Calgary and find out if they have one that they would be willing to release again to the public, unless yourself or anyone else in the forum, that you're aware of, has been in touch with the investigating officer. I wonder if we could get it and put it on this site. I know it is old and the suspect, if still alive has aged almost 30 years, however, someone knew this guy at that time and someone knows him now.

I am also trying to check the site www.websleuths.com to go thru some of the missing persons and murders from the 70's and 80's in the States.  I have found nothing so far that is even similar is situation, however, perhaps the murderer 'worked' his way up to this scenario by doing other murders that were less of a 'hunt' and with less planning involved and after it was done, at least in Southern Alberta, the chances of it working the same way at that time, was far less because the public was more cautious of letting their children babysit for someone they did not know. I know that our family was very strict about the rules of babysitting following Kelly's murder.

The phone call from Hussar, really really bothers me. I realize that it is not possible to know if it was Kelly however, in such small towns the odds of another call placed by a girl or woman screaming would be a really unusual coincidence. I believe very strongly that was Kelly. However, I also agree with the posts that the responsible party would not have planned this so carefully and then have to stop for gas. In fact I pulled up the town of Hussar on the web. It is extremely small. Possibly it did not even have a gas station. What I wonder is if the murderer was taking her some place in Hussar and she escaped and made it to what would probably be the only payphone in town before he caught up with her, or she escaped from his vehicle at a stop sign or when he slowed to turn down the back road to go south toward Chin Lake. I agree that someone in Hussar probably knows more info and perhaps the police have questioned witnesses in this regard. It is likely the call was Kelly that night because of the path from Standard, to go straight East to Hussar, then directly south on the back roads leads right to Chin Lake.

Also, it would be interesting to know if what the cinder block was made of, which might indicate where it was formed, if it was determined to be local to Alberta or from elsewhere.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 03, 2008, 12:49:16 AM
Hussar is small, and to me I think you'd have to know it was there in order to go there. I was there about 4 years ago, it probably only had 1 pay phone in the whole place. It is off teh highway, and I think the person must have been familiar there.

Do you have a link to the story in the sun? I'd like to read it again. There was something about it when I read that made me believe the police know who, just not enough.

Thanks
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 03, 2008, 02:39:28 PM
http://www.calgarysun.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=111601&s=lifestyle&x=articles
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 03, 2008, 03:01:07 PM
sorry, above message was posted incomplete,

That was the article from the Sun and really the only thing recent in the media besides this site, and the RCMP cold case site.

I will endeavor to contact the investigating officer and see about the sketch and if they have any objection to it being posted on line. If I can't get it from there I might have another way to try.

I am cross referencing all the other links that Des cited on here. I definitely find the Cotton disappearance interesting too along with Shannon Prior. I guess I have been hoping to find an abduction as bold as this one and I just haven't come across it yet.

I agree, this doesn't sound like a rig worker. This is someone who was through there on a regular basis, temporarily staying with someone who lived there or  would go out to the outlying communities, perhaps from Calgary. This reminds me of a Banff murder around the same time line and really Standard and Banff are both close to Calgary but in opposite directions. The car was either owned by the perp or stolen but there has never been anything indicated a stolen vehicle from the area. I think the car belonged to the perp. I believe his appearance made him fit into a 'farming' town and he definitely would not have had an accent, or that would have been made known right away. Something makes me think the car was navy blue but then the article from the Sun said light colored, but I am not sure if that is in fact correct. If I recall the poster that was initially done up had the suspect, Kelly's photo and a picture or description of the car.

It would be interesting to know exactly where at Chin Lake the body was found. It had to be not too far off shore because it was a motorist who stopped by the lake somewhere who discovered it. And yes, had the lake not been unusually low, the body would not have been found. They do not know cause of death, so either the state of decomposition was too great and/or it was a cause like asphyxiation that would not leave visible signs (ie stab wounds etc). Does not state if sexual assault occured.Her body was found clothed, but to what degree it does not state, or if in the same clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. This of course does not mean there was no sexual assault, in fact, we know from most other cases that it is rare that a young woman would be abducted and not assaulted.

Also the article that featured Kelly's friend, the figure skater/initial target, may have been in the Strathmore paper (I am uncertain if Standard had/has its own newspaper). Strathmore being a larger centre closer to Calgary could/would attract more people, especially people travelling on the transcanada through Calgary.

If the person was really local, he would have been identified by someone, if he looked too out of place he would been too obvious. Possible there was more than one person in on this, an out of towner and a local, like a local from Hussar?

Also, the last name chosen by the perp, Christensen, is a somewhat common name in that area. It is common to Standard, Hussar, Strathmore and Carseland. I know that the perp obviously did not use his real name and likely took a last name out of the phone book.

Will try to get sketch of suspect.............
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 03, 2008, 07:22:27 PM
The article about this case says that the call the operator heard from the payphone in Hussar was around 10pm, yet Kelly was abducted at 830. Hussar is 25 km straight east, at most a 15 minute drive. So, assuming the call was from Kelly and really, it would be a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't, then where was Kelly for the 1 1/2 hours between the time she was picked up and the time that call took place? The landscape is bald prairie, not the kind of place you could pull off the road, into the bush. The perp would know that he would have only a certain amount of time before Kelly's parents knew something was wrong and people started looking for her. I still wonder if she wasn't taken to a place in/near Hussar, to someone's house or an abandoned building and got away to the payphone before she was intercepted.............. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 05, 2008, 01:06:57 AM
Both Standard and Hussar are towns that do not see a lot of outsiders, so a person who knows the area is my guess too. Standard is probably too small for a paper, maybe one fo those weekly 2 pagers, and Hussar is even small.

I'm sure the police traced the calls to see where they came from and interviewed a lot of people. It does seem like a case where they must have a very strong POI.

I keep meaning to stop in Standard on my travels, but have not thus far. I'll make a better effort when I go next time. I want to find someone to ask about this.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 06, 2008, 02:48:08 PM
I have had a look at a lot of the link and references Des has posted.

The Barbara Cotton murder is interesting. I also looked more carefully at the info on line about Terry Arnold as he was active in his serial killings beginning in the early 80's and had links and crimes in Alberta (calgary), however he would have been approx 18 when Kelly was murdered and that just doesn't fit. The description was someone in their 30's - 40's. Also, it would be difficult to be pass the idea of needing someone to babysit kids when you're 18, easier when you're in your 30s/40s.

I also found it interesting that Clifford Olson was at the height (or so we think) of his activity at precisely that time. I know that he is really only linked to crimes in BC and the maritimes but it states that he would rent cars and put tens of thousands km on rental vehicle looking of his victim. The thing about him is he didn't go to this much trouble to find a victim and secondly since his became so public so soon after he would have been identified as the suspect, I would think.

I believe that this murderer was more of a 'family man' who was gainfully employed, who did not live at the fringes of society and was not about to commit a crime in that regard. I just don't understand why there aren't more clear links to other crimes as similar as this one.  It was a bold and brazen crime and the murderer took so many risks that most would not or do not take.  Most others seem to involve a quick snatching from a public place (roadway etc), picking up a hitch hiker or often STW. It seems that the murderer thought he was smarter than the rest of us. I am sure that he was sure he would get away with it and hope that he is dead wrong.

The links that you posted, Des, about bodies near lakes is interesting. Would be interesting to find a another case where the body was weighted down with cinder blocks. I don't believe that the cinder block part of the plan was any kind of a last minute plan. I believe that the murderer had the blocks in the car or where he took Kelly, along with whatever bound her to the blocks, after all, cinder blocks aren't just lying around anywhere, such as a rock would be.

Hoping someone out there knows more information or that the media can run another story about this one, among other of the unsolveds and give these crimes the attention that they need from the public.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 06, 2008, 10:13:50 PM
Des

Definite possibility. I doubt that Chin Lake was a coincidence. Also, there are many other lakes that could have been chosen. I feel the perp would have had some connection there, like it was familiar in some way.

I found the Patricia Lupton case interesting though. She was lured in a similar way, it is just the time span between 1959 and 1981 that bothers me, but it is not impossible, if the perp in Kelly's case was closer to 45 (as the witness placed him I believe between 30 and 45), then in 1959 this guy would have been in his early 20's. Which means, if same guy, there are other crimes committed in between that we don't know of, or can't connect, OR there were no crimes in between, like possibly a prison sentence or something like that. I can't see someone who does this voluntarily leaving a gap of 20+ years in between.

I searched all over for similar recoveries of bodies weighted down by a cinder block and no luck either. you're right, Kelly may not have ever been recovered if it wasn't for a major drought, and heavy irrigation that year. Also makes me wonder, how far off shore Kelly's body was submerged. When the water levels were higher, is it like a location where you need a boat, because carrying a body and a cinder block to a depth that is deep enough not to be seen from shore or from a boat would be difficult. Therefore did the perp take her out in a boat to a 'safe' depth but then when the water levels receded to such a degree that her body became visible from shore???

I initiated contact with RCMP regarding sketch. Don't know if they would release again anyway, or if they would be wary that such a thing on line might be a liability toward their investigation. Will see if they reply and advise  either way.

You have taken a lot of time in logging and cross referencing so many crimes. I think that the families of these victims would be very grateful to you. I just hope that someone reads this site that has more information and it gives the police the break that they need.

 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 07, 2008, 01:45:30 AM
Quote
I'm thinking maybe the killer is from Lethbridge

Warner is just south of Lethbrdige, and there was a poster here who mentioned that people in town believed he was the killer. He has since died. BUt when I heard that, it was SO close to what had written it was weird.

Looking at my map, one would travel thru the Chin Resivoir when going from Standard to Warner.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 07, 2008, 02:17:44 PM
The Warner possibility is really interesting. The location makes sense, in fact, pending where in the lake Kelly's body was, it could be VERY close to Warner. Would be really nice to know if there is more information available regarding that person, perhaps from someone who lives/lived there. For instance, did he fit the physical description or the vehicle description? What made people suspect him? Did the police know of this possibility (I am sure they probably were aware of it). Would also be interesting to know if there was a connection to Standard/Hussar (like what was previously posted about travelling work, or if this person may have had family in that area that he was visiting etc). When did this person die?

Anyone out there from Warner area able to comment on this?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 07, 2008, 09:10:44 PM
Not sure when the person died, but it was years ago.

It would be great if a person from Warner could share more info. I happen to have a friend who lives nearby, I will ask him to find someone who knows and get them to send me a note.

If he was a POI, I hope we can learn why.

The only odd thing is, there had been no other simular cases in that area.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 08, 2008, 02:20:34 PM
I was previously wondering where about in Chin Lake Kelly's body was found, since it is quite a large lake. In viewing an online map and previous posts showing pics of Chin Lake, I believe Kelly was thrown over the bridge that crosses Chin Lake. I was trying to sort out if a boat would have been used, or not, in disposing of Kelly's remains, however the bridge over the lake makes perfect sense. It would be fast and far easier as well, it would be unlikely for someone to find, except that the water levels were low and a motorist must have stopped on the bridge and noticed something in the water. The bridge, just so happens to be on the secondary highway the goes directly to the town of Warner.

I am VERY interested to find out what residents of Warner believe about their former resident in regards to this matter?

Hope that more information comes to light and eventually this is solved and Kelly's family will finally know some answers.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 09, 2008, 07:56:19 AM
I definitely think the composite sketches should continue to be released since someone knew that person how they looked at that time and if still alive, someone knows them now. Further, I feel the sketches should be age enhanced every 10 years or so. It is often done in the US but I am not certain that I have seen many done in Canada (whether for the missing person or the suspect). In this case I am so interested to know if the person in Warner that people thought could have been involved matches the sketch done all those years ago. And, did he own a similar type vehicle?  I have requested the sketch be re-released and see if we can post on this site but I have not received a reply. Perhaps I won't.

I believe that there are people out there that know more, a lot more, in this case, even if by chance the murderer is already dead. Someone heard something, saw something or suspected something. Being that it is so many years later, maybe someone with information would feel more at ease bringing it forth at this time.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on August 11, 2008, 03:39:59 AM
Hello all,

I found your site when I was working on my blog post tonight.  Glad to see others still care about justice for Kelly and closure for her family.

http://janemorgan.blogspot.com/ 

Here is an excerpt from it:

Quote
Ask anyone who went to school with me in Standard, Alberta; they do not remember 1981 as the year we graduated.
We remember it as the year 15 year old, Kelly Cook was murdered.
To this day Kelly?s murder remains unsolved?.27 years! It is haunting and it can be all consuming.

No one, absolutely NO ONE; should to have to wait 27 years, 27 days or 27 minutes for the silence of violence to end.

If you read the remainder of my post you will see my daughter is now trying to cope with an unsolved murder of a friend.

It is late, I will post more later.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 11, 2008, 10:46:33 PM
Hi First Lady, thanks for posting.

I am sure no one in Standard forgets 1981. Did you live there at the time?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on August 11, 2008, 11:33:39 PM
Hi Chris,

I lived closer to Rockyford.  I attended high school in Standard and was in grade 12 when this happened. I did not know Kelly personally. My younger brother was in Kelly's class.

Some of the details I remember....  it is quite fuzzy, 27 years is a long time.

The first contact was with a waitress (she was a friend of mine). As I recall she gave him the number of one of our other friends; who was not free to babysit, so she  in turn gave him Kelly's #.

I think it was the waitress and/or one or two other people who were in the restaurant at the time who helped create the sketch.  I think some of them may have also underwent hypnosis to try and recall details.  I know there was a sketch, but I cannot for the life of me invision it. 

Standard does not have a newpaper, but Strathmore does. http://www.strathmorestandard.com/
They may have the sketch in their archives.

I had forgotten about the call from Hussar.  I don't think Hussar had a gas station; but as some one has mentioned there was a payphone on the main street.

Not sure why, but I am convinced it was not anyone local.  There was talk at the time (and it makes sense); that this person just picked up the phone book and picked out a name to use; one that was quite common.  That, IMO does not take much planning.

As someone has mentioned Standard is not "on the way" to anywhere. The major cities in southern Alberta are Calgary, Lethbridge, Drumheller and Medicine Hat. To travel between any of them, you would not need to go thru Standard.

It is however very close to the Trans Canada hwy, which of course would offer easy getaway; it could be that Standard's proximity to the main highway corridor lent to convenience.

I have posted a link to this site on classmates.com ..... maybe others will visit here and be able to add more than I can.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2008, 12:57:47 AM
Wow, I just discovered a simular abduction happened 3 weeks earlier in Olds ALberta. 15 year old girl, but he took her right off the street and drove to Edmonton with her before being arrested:
http://www.ourfutureourpast.ca/newspapr/np_page2.asp?code=nn1p0236.jpg
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2008, 01:06:13 AM
Here is a sketch of the suspect:

He was 30 - 40 years old.
ABout 5 foot 10 inches and 160 pounds
Medium to heavy build
Round face with swarthy complexion
Hands and face were weather beaten
Clean shaven, short fark hair
Had a blue windbreaker with possible complay logo or emblem on it.
Driving a 1978 or newer (remember, this is 1981) Chysler or GMC full size, light color, possibly pale with Alberta plates.

(http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/img/nghp1016.jpg)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2008, 01:18:25 AM
Hi Chris,

I lived closer to Rockyford.  I attended high school in Standard and was in grade 12 when this happened. I did not know Kelly personally. My younger brother was in Kelly's class.

Some of the details I remember....  it is quite fuzzy, 27 years is a long time.

The first contact was with a waitress (she was a friend of mine). As I recall she gave him the number of one of our other friends; who was not free to babysit, so she  in turn gave him Kelly's #.

I think it was the waitress and/or one or two other people who were in the restaurant at the time who helped create the sketch.  I think some of them may have also underwent hypnosis to try and recall details.  I know there was a sketch, but I cannot for the life of me invision it. 

Standard does not have a newpaper, but Strathmore does. http://www.strathmorestandard.com/
They may have the sketch in their archives.

I had forgotten about the call from Hussar.  I don't think Hussar had a gas station; but as some one has mentioned there was a payphone on the main street.

Not sure why, but I am convinced it was not anyone local.  There was talk at the time (and it makes sense); that this person just picked up the phone book and picked out a name to use; one that was quite common.  That, IMO does not take much planning.

As someone has mentioned Standard is not "on the way" to anywhere. The major cities in southern Alberta are Calgary, Lethbridge, Drumheller and Medicine Hat. To travel between any of them, you would not need to go thru Standard.

It is however very close to the Trans Canada hwy, which of course would offer easy getaway; it could be that Standard's proximity to the main highway corridor lent to convenience.

I have posted a link to this site on classmates.com ..... maybe others will visit here and be able to add more than I can.

Thanks for the link First Lady, I hope more info can be added here.

I was the one who has mentioned that Standard is out of teh way, not really a place you just end up at. Same with Hussar, which I am sure still has a gas station. Hussar is small then Standard, but still seems to have a few business's. I have been to all these towns including Rockyford before.

Since he is not recognized by anyone, I would think it is safe to assume he was not from there. SOmeone would have been able to ID him I think, those places you seem to know everyones face (I live in a smaller Sask town now myself).

THere was a person on here who said a man in Warner AB was considered a suspect, but he has since died.

It does seem like this guy knew what he was doing and i think it was just a chance thing it worked out. By going to Hussar, he wasted no time getting her away.

It would be nice if this could solved. With DNA and all sorts of advances, it is still very possible as long as he is still alive. In fact, it is also likely the police already know 'who', but because our laws favor criminals so much now, they may not be able to proceed.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 12, 2008, 02:17:19 PM
Thanks for the sketch Chris! Didn't think to see if the local newspaper might have it in archives. That is definitely the sketch I remembered for all those years ago.

I did some more looking at the Olds newspapers to see if there was follow up on the abduction that took place in Olds, which was 3 weeks before Kelly was abducted. The newspaper ran a follow up story around April 22 or so that said that the abductor was being sent for a psychiatric evaluation for May 4 1981. It appears he was in custody for the duration from March 28 when the Olds girl was abducted until after May 4, which would make me think he was later sentenced or extradited to the USA, pending whatever else. Long and short, does not appear he could be the same SOB that was responsible for Kelly's  murder. Keeping fingers crossed that someone will see the sketch and it will jog a memory from a long time ago, or that the murderer is dead or incarcerated and someone who knows something will feel safe enough to offer up some information.

Still hope someone from Warner might have some information.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2008, 02:26:39 PM
The one thing about the pedo in Olds was that he drove all the way to Edmotnon. He was in no rush. Was he planning on meeting another fellow pedophile?

I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but I do know that pedophiles have worked as partners before. It just seems weird.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 12, 2008, 05:53:48 PM
Des, the weather beaten/tan skin made me think this guy could be either a farmer which would be consistent with southern Alberta or perhaps and construction worker (perhaps road construction) that put him up in hotel off the TransCanada where he would have seen the paper of the figure skater in March. Not sure if that would be too early in the season for road construction? Anyway to determine if there was road construction at a certain period of time and where? Anyone out there familiar with Gov of Alberta Department of Highways records?

If not road construction maybe house construction (although less likely because of the slump in the economy and high high interest rates). The farmer thing might hold water - might be consistent with the Warner suspicion.

Appears this guy was seen by more than one person in the restaurant.

From what I gather the figure skater was working in the restaurant and was first approached in person to babysit but could not so gave him a friend's name who could not, so that friend then gave him Kelly's name. He was persistent and wasn't going away until he got what he was after. Would be interesting to know what the phone records revealed from those calls? Payphone from the area, if so, what town? Long before the days of cell phones.

This guy was brave and thought he was very smart and did not think he was going to get caught so he wasn't afraid to show his face. Why? Not from there..........or never going back there..............or has done this over and over in one form or another and confidence keeps building. The car appeared to be with AB licence plates - could be a rental, could be his own car, or could have been a stolen car.
Wonder if police checked with car dealers in southern alberta to run purchases of vehicles from the year or two around the age of the car involved, to see who bought light colored GMC/Chev full size or Chrysler/Dodge full size cars. Newer cars might indicate decent paying job. can't see the guy using a stolen car because it might create more attention, with the risk that it is ID'd as a stolen car.

Wonder if police checked with car rental agencies across the province to see about any cars out during that time, especially if one was not returned  etc.........

 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 13, 2008, 01:58:02 PM
Thanks Des

I am sure this guy would not have had a Cadillac, in a town of 300 people a Cadillac would definitely draw attention. I would think the same for the Riviera, they're fancier and are noticed. Can anyone remember which car the RCMP used back then? I am thinking the Caprice but not certain and again, if that is the case people tend to notice a car that looks exactly the same as the ones the RCMP use but driven by a civilian, (just like how a driver slows down for an oncoming car that appears to be a police car by its make and model but upon passing it you realize it wasn't!). Probably a Dodge or Chevy Malibu or Impala, maybe a Buick Regal or something like that, that would tend to blend in, in a small town. He totally blended in because it wasn't until Kelly was gone for an hour or so that her parents began to worry. No one else in the town seemed to have issue with this guy until Kelly was gone. I have to say that the southern part of the prairie provinces are much different than the northern parts. It is not transient there and outsiders are noticed. A lot of people in the south homesteaded there and immediately can tell someone who is not from the area.  Making me think the Warner connection might be more and more possible since it too is southern alberta, rural and not much different all and all from Standard.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2008, 04:54:34 PM
Quote
Making me think the Warner connection might be more and more possible since it too is southern alberta, rural and not much different all and all from Standard.

It is sooo simular to Standard except a big highway goes thru town. Same size, same industries, same type of folks. I'm thinking more and more about that connection myself.

I really hope at some point someone who knew a bit more about that would share some more info with us.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2008, 10:47:51 PM
Gran Fury was used too. Caprice Classic was used in this 1981 Terry Fox photo:
(http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/pix/terry_fox_cp_385993.jpg)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 14, 2008, 07:56:32 PM
Not sure. I think like now, most cars were of a certain model, which in those days was the Caprice. Other models of cars and trucks and vans were used, but not as common.

I'd say Caprice was likely the most commonly used basic cruiser at that time as it was most of the 80's until it appears they switched the Crown Victoria's.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 15, 2008, 01:16:46 PM
I did receive a copy of the composite sketch from the RCMP this week and confirm that it is the same sketch as the one you have posted, Chris. Again thanks for finding and posting same.

I am so hopeful that someone will see this and remember something, however insignificant it might seem, that might break this case wide open.

Also, if the Warner connection is in fact correct, I would think that the murderer would be driving over that bridge on a regular basis and probably got some kind of sick enjoyment out of the fact that he knew Kelly's body was down there, sort of like how some of the sk's you hear go back to the spot to re-live the crime. It seems that often these guys keep the bodies near to them or at a place that is close enough for them to get to re-live it in some way. It seems that in more 'random' killings where it is not so premeditated, the disposal of the body isn't so crucial to the murderer but in these kind of cases (and I'll use that term loosely since I am not a criminologist) that the planning and lead up is part of the thrill as is the time afterward. I would almost think the murderer would have been angry that she was found, not just because it confirmed she was murdered and that it could possibly lead to his arrest, but because 'she' was no longer his, meaning, no longer where he put her. JMO.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 15, 2008, 01:22:13 PM
Quote
murderer would be driving over that bridge on a regular basis

Was she thrown off a bridge?

Yeah, the guy was probably mad and scared when she was found. That is a good point.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 15, 2008, 01:55:30 PM
I don't know if she was or not, for certain. I remember hearing that she was found in the lake when water levels dropped dramatically and that it was a passing motorist who discovered her body. I did not know there was a fairly significant bridge where highway 36 (I believe) crosses right across Chin Lake and then it continues south to Warner. It was only recently when I was looking at maps and at a pic of Chin Lake that I saw the bridge was there. For years I wondered how she was disposed of in a lake, deep enough that boaters and recreational campers etc near shore did not see her. First I thought maybe the murderer used a boat, but then how would a motorist see that? then when I saw the bridge, I assumed that is where she was recovered because, really, how much easier would it be than to open your vehicle and dispose of a body (remember there was a cinder block attached). Otherwise it would be difficult to do it quickly and discreetly. I imagine that highway is particularly quiet and at night you would be able to see oncoming headlights for a great distance to ensure that it could be done without raising suspicion.

I have nothing but many own assumptions, for what it's worth!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 15, 2008, 02:10:16 PM
Also, would love it if this case could get coverage again in the paper or on tv. Anyone out there have any connections to the media that would be interested in putting another spot light on this case?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 15, 2008, 10:03:47 PM
That is interesting. I looked at my map and yes, I see that highway does cross. I have not been there in 5 years and do not recall a bridge but there must have been one. That would seem the logical place it was dumped, which also means Des was right a long time ago when she suggested the person was heading south. Warner is at the end of this highway.

I wish I knew someone in the media who could publicize this case. I wish one of those court TV shows would do something. In fact, I hope someone out there will be able to give us more info.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: andy m on August 17, 2008, 08:06:00 PM
This case has gone on so long i am not 100% sure what the facts are or what facts i have are from other cases.. From my recollection i think Kelly was found tied up with her hands behind her back. She was particailly clothed. From what i have heard or read, she was very much alive prior to being dumped into that reservoir. So she drowned. I can't imagine the horror that child went through being tossed into a cold lake in the dark by an animal that will eventually meet God. I can not fathom the calesness it takes to commit such a cowardly act on an innocent child. At least a sex worker has some idea about the dangers. This was a child. Who could imagine ever that taking a babysitting job would lead to such evil. The more i am reading the similair cases posted up. This guy has something to do with argriculture. He sells seeds he custom farms.. fertilizers.......Custom farmers plant in oklahoma and migrate north with the planting season. But the four door sedan being a caprice would make him in my books more likely a traveling salesman... Also a nice car to mimick a policeman...... I heard somewhere the FBI did a profile on this person... anyone have a link to that profile....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 17, 2008, 08:37:31 PM
andy m:

Kelly's death has remained a part of me for all these years. I am so grateful for this thread because I feel it is keeping light on her murder and people are reading and thinking about it and one day, well, you just never know, something might come to light that will finally solve this. Kelly was a child. An innocent child who met a most horrifying death. I feel it was so senseless but to the murder it was not senseless. It served a purpose to him which disgusts me to my core. Her family and friends deserve answers and deserve justice. 27 years is too long to wait for that but even if it takes 127 years, this needs to be solved.

During decades that have past since Kelly's death have you heard anything of the possible 'theory' that someone from Warner was implicated?

I have never heard or read anything about COD. I thought that due to the length of time her body was in the water they likely could not determine COD. However, perhaps they did determine COD but just did not publicly release it. I know that the police holdback information and evidence from the media to assist in a conviction at a later time. Unless there is a POI, I have to wonder if 27 years later that all the cards should be laid on the table so to speak to see what else could come in from the public in the form of tips.

The one article I read said there were still 2 - 3 tips that came in each year. That is a lot of tips considering that age of this case. 

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 17, 2008, 08:58:11 PM
Quote
The one article I read said there were still 2 - 3 tips that came in each year. That is a lot of tips considering that age of this case

One day I hope the right one comes in.

Quote
From what i have heard or read, she was very much alive prior to being dumped into that reservoir. So she drowned

Wow! That would be most evil. I wonder how long he kept her for before doing that.

Quote
I heard somewhere the FBI did a profile on this person... anyone have a link to that profile....
I did not know that. If it was, I hope it was made public. Maybe I will try to get a hold of someone at the Strathmore paper and ask if there local library has old newspapers. I pass thru Strathmore often when I go to Calgary.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 18, 2008, 08:19:04 AM
The article from the Calgary Sun marking 25 years since Kelly's murder, stated her 'clothed' remains were found - but does not state to what degree she was or was not clothed. Generally though, if the media knows more, they will say 'partially clothed' remains, so I assume that either the police did not disclose more than she was 'clothed' or she was fully clothed. The other interesting thing from that article says there was cinder blocks (plural). I believe this person had it planned out and specifically put the blocks in his car to be used for this purpose. People did and do use weight in their vehicles in the winter. Generally in the back of pick ups and yes, usually sandbags. I have not heard of cinder blocks used to weigh down a vehicle in the winter, but anything is possible. Usually cars aren't weighted down, but nowadays most are front wheel drive with the weight over the drive wheels. In the 70's and early 80's I believe there were rear wheel drive cars that were more difficult to drive in the winter, on ice due to weight issues. Back then, too, Alberta required two licence plates, one on the front and one on the back. An out of province or out of country plate would have been noticed easily. First Lady's post indicated the car had Alberta plates (I realize that does not preclude that the plates could have been stolen off another vehicle, the vehicle could have been stolen and/or the vehicle could have been a rental).

The weather beaten skin and swarthy complexion definitely indicate someone who works outside. The travelling sales person (selling seed etc)  might not fit the weathered look, unless people did that part time and farmed part time. When is seeding done in the spring, is mid - late April too early? Actually I think seeding would have to have been done or not yet started if this person was a farmer because it is not like a farmer to stop mid-way through something, generally when they get started they work long hours to get it done.

I wonder if the spring break/ easter vacation has more significance -I don't mean religiously/occult but for the murderer. Like he also had that week 'off' from work or that he knew it was easter vacation and that it was more likely to find a young girl to babysit on a week night when there wasn't school the next day. Or, could this guy have been visiting family or friends for Easter and did this crime as he was leaving the area that evening to return home and therefore was around for the days prior to set this thing up???

I truly believe someone in/around Standard Hussar does know more than has been said to date.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 18, 2008, 09:16:12 AM
Around this end of the country "the swarthy" complexions are fishermen (some of them are like that year round because they work on the draggers in the winter ... never get out of the water spray and sunrays) ....then the road workers ...they are really really weather beaten (but only half the year)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: dycoka on August 18, 2008, 10:01:59 AM
I grew up in the area and remember this case very well even though I was only about 8 years old at the time.  The one piece of information that I don't remember hearing before is about the phone call from Hussar.  This is very disturbing to me for many reasons.  I know Hussar well and I know of only one, possibly two payphones.  One on mainstreet beside the post office, store and across the street from the arena.  There was likely one by the gas station as well although I don't remember for sure.  The point being you would have to come right into town which is off the highway to access these phones.  Did any of the local residents hear or see anything that night?  The town would have been quieter at that time of year with the curling and skating rink closed for the season and local farmers busy in the fields, however the local residents would have been home at this time of day, some possibly outside in the yard or with windows open, it would be very surprising if no one heard or saw anything.  The other thing that bothers me as has been stated before, Hussar is only about a 20 minute drive from Standard and the call came in 1 hour and 1/2 after the abduction.  Very strange that they would still be in the area and in a populated area so long after the kidnapping knowing that suspicion would be raised quickly and people would begin searching, as well as the chance for her to get away.  Stopping for gas seems unlikely, wasn't this before pay-at-the-pump technology and the station would have been closed.

I don't believe it would have been anyone local as everyone knows everyone in these communities but the person would have to be familiar with the area through work or visiting family or friends, otherwise most people have no idea where these towns are, he would have needed a reason to be in that area.  The Warner suspect sounds like a strong possibility given where the body ended up. Seeding could take place anywhere from mid-April to end of May depending largely on the weather conditions, so it could have been a farmer.

You would think if police are still getting tips every year on this case with no media attention, if they were to profile it again and give out more of the information they have that this case could be solved.  The family deserves that much for sure.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 18, 2008, 10:38:22 AM
dycoka; you are right that somebody must have noticed something (without even realizing it, i'd say)  if this case were openly profiled - for example - describing the weather conditions and that time of day...sunny or windy etc. ...taking us back to the moment/s in time and recreating the possible scenarios ...
This is what it takes to jolt the memory in the minds of everybody and exactly what they many have been doing that day....
-it may have been somebody's birthday
-there may have been a funeral
-it may have been muddy on the ground
-there are so many things that affect us subconsciously when we go back in time...and it's amazing how many people would, willingly, be part of the process, given the opportunity.
I think it's a good idea you have of profiling the case again "very openly".
This could mean a lot!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 12:59:38 PM
Around this end of the country "the swarthy" complexions are fishermen (some of them are like that year round because they work on the draggers in the winter ... never get out of the water spray and sunrays) ....then the road workers ...they are really really weather beaten (but only half the year)

And that they are. I guess whomever this was worked in the sun a lot. In Alberta, that would be a farmer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 18, 2008, 03:21:26 PM
Hussar does not appear to be a direct route from Standard, while near by, one would have to go 'out of their way' to go there. This is what makes me wonder if someone local is implicated. Perhaps the non-local individual was the front man. The person to lure Kelly and to drive her somewhere. And this is the person we have the sketch of.  As suggested before Kelly may have been taken to an abandoned farm building or a residence in/near Hussar where the local person was. While I don't believe there is any evidence (or none that has been made public) to suggest that there were two people involved I think it is possible.  IF the phone call Hussar was from Kelly and the police believe that may have been, then the timeline says either the murderer drove around with Kelly for close to 1.5 hours, which is long time to just 'drive' around and really, why? He just got her, after taking great risks that her parents would come outside when Kelly left or a neighbour would have been in their yard, etc, that I would think this guy would be wanting to celebrate his success. So I doubt he would have wasted time. Plus the risks of getting caught driving around on rural roads for 1 1/2 hours are too great. And if he did drive around for that long but did not leave the area and 1.5 hours later was only in Hussar, that also does not make sense. I believe he lead Kelly to believe he was taking her some place for her to babysit and when he got to the location she realized this was not plan. This location I believe was at or near Hussar and she got away. She ran or managed to escape the vehicle and got to the payphone just before being intercepted.

I believe people in the area know something. There definitely was a call made that night to the operator of a female screaming before the call was cut off. Someone in Hussar could have heard that call, if they were outside or had windows open (assuming there are residences close enough to this phone). So, even IF that was not Kelly that night (big coincidence if it was not) then one would think that someone in Hussar would have realized something that night and made indication of it, even if it was just to talk about it locally. Would be interesting, dycoka, if anyone in the town remembers anything from that night at all. however 27 years is a long time..........But I have to think that if someone heard something and then the next day the abduction came to the publics attention, anything like that WOULD have been reported to the police as relevant. It is not like Hussar is like living in down town Calgary where there are emergencies everyday and people become less sensitive to that. I lived in a small town in souther Alberta and EVERY little thing was a BIG thing. Everyone talked about everything. you could not even leave town for the afternoon to go to the city without someone telling you the next day that they saw you leave at 1:38 p.m. and come back at 6:15. I believe there are answers around Hussar. At least I hope so.

 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 04:01:46 PM
Wow, that is fantastic. I went and re-reead everthing about this case.

Police believe the person had lived in the area at the time
Police believe the person had planned this for 1 - 2 months.

To me, that says the police have reason to believe this.

Also your timing is right. What did they do for an hour and a half before that call was made?

There is no way that anything was open in Hussar at that time, everything closed early in tiny villages. So one could conclude the killer lived there or knew someone who did. Hussar is small and i agree that someone there must know something and I am sure the police based there theory on what they learned from that.

There is a chance I am going to Calgary tommorow or the next day, I will stop in both these places, photograph the payphone in particular and maybe even add a notice to the community BB's to visit here.

I am surprised the RCMP were not dispatched to Hussar after this call.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 18, 2008, 04:17:19 PM
Is it possible that somebody could have been visiting in this area, just waiting their chance to have "the house to himself" ...a son home from the sevices, a cousin or uncle in town, ..... could some home or family in that town, the private type for example, or the elite, that always keeps away from the rest of the townsfolk per say, have left a guest home alone?  I grew up in a small community of about 20 families.  There were maybe 5 or 6 homes where they always had their privacy because the didn't mix in a lot or at all, therefore, we never even paid attention to the houses or cars etc. most of the time... wouldn't think to because these folks kept to themselves.   I also remember a few dirt bags whom, although they seemed the pilars of the community, would, upon their wife being away or in hospital, find a reason to use to lure a woman or girl to their residence and then try to have their way with them.  In those days, nobody repeated those things because of risk or creating community feud or else nobody would believe it...especially if he were someone of community standing.  ...and what about that?  a local judge, businessman, doctor, even a priest.... there's well respected in every community who are pervs in secret....  could have planned it to coincide with the time they would be alone in the house.
The culprit could have driven behind a residence or directly into a garage adjacent or attached to the house.  The girl could have found a way to maybe grab a phone at some point.   ....just a thought.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 04:44:23 PM
Taht is an interesting thought, however, the person was seen by many and no one recognized him. And these 2 towns were simple farming communities and did not ever have hosptials, courts RCMP stations etc which would attract higher ups.

What it did have though, is Oil workers who worked on rigs in that area. This was about the time Pierre Trudeau shut down the oil patch (NEP) and there was a lot of people being displaced.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 04:53:04 PM
You know, i am going to ask my wife if I can go right now, I really have to see this place. I wish I knew which house Kelly lived in too. By chance does anyone have any idea? I'll see if I can find stuff at the Strathmore library in the news archives too.

If I don't come tonight to post, it is because I am gone.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 18, 2008, 05:07:55 PM
hmmmmmm energetic oil worker...layed off hanging around mommy or daddy's .....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 05:52:38 PM
hmmmmmm energetic oil worker...layed off hanging around mommy or daddy's .....

Bingo! Something along those lines is what I am thinking. Or a person like my family, who was moving to the states where tens of thousands of Oil workers ended up going, or one of the tens of thousands of American workers who were in Alberta buying up oil equipment and moving them to the USA. Just a couple weeks before this, an American kidnapped a girl in another small alberta town.

Des uncovered a simular case in Norht Dakota, although it seems the boyfriend may or may not have been involved. Since he was not charged, that means there was doubt.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2008, 07:39:52 PM
By the way, accodring to my map socftware, it is a 18 minute drive from Standard to Hussar if you drive the speed limit (90). THat is a lot of time in between between departure and the phone call.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 18, 2008, 08:09:47 PM
And, my understanding is that one would have to turn off the roadway to go into Hussar, it is not a place where the road from Standard would run right through it or directly past it. Am I wrong? I was there many years ago but have no recollection whatsoever.

So, thinking like a criminal, where do you go with someone for at least an hour after you abducted them?

Also, Chris you had asked if the police responded after the phone call to the operator. My guess is the operator contacted the police, which I believe would have been the Strathmore RCMP. I am also guessing that that was about the time that Kelly's parents were in contact with the RCMP as well because the Cook's indicate in the newspaper article that it was about 1 hour after Kelly left that they started to worry because they had an agreement that she would call home when she got to her babysitting job. Then Mrs Cook called the post mistress and a friend that worked at the bank to see if anyone new moved to town. She discovered that there wasn't and they called the RCMP.

I am thinking that telephone operators receiving distressing phone calls back then would have had to, via protocol inform the RCMP detachment. I could be wrong, though.  This was before 911 was started, at least in those areas, or maybe everywhere. Operator was a common way to get in touch with emergency services, otherwise people had to actually remember the RCMP, firehall and ambulance phone numbers which wasn't practical.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2008, 02:27:54 AM
I went to Hussar and Standard today. It sure does make me believe very strongly this was done by a person who was familiar with Hussar more so then Standard. The person must have had a reason for going to Hussar, and like Haunted pointed out, there was an hour and a half and only a 18 minute trip unaccounted for.

I'm so certain though the police have a really good idea who did it. I cannot imagine that someone who saw this guy did not ID his photo.

IF the police feel planning was involved, there must have been something at Hussar that was part of the plan and it went horribly wrong.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 07:54:49 AM
Hi Chris, hope it was a good trip.

Is it such that Hussar is out of the way from the road from Standard, like someone has to drive deliberately into town as opposed to someone who just happens to drive thru it or along side of it? Are there residences within shouting distance or visible from where a payphone is or likely would have been at that time? Thanks.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 20, 2008, 09:50:07 AM
I can't help but think that back then, this girl was held in a local area house and managed to grab a phone and press 0.  That would be the only option back then.  If she was a regular at baby sitting, it would be a mindset for her to dial "0" in case of emergency.  That's the way it was back then!

I still think there's a phone operation or police dispatcher not being thoroughily honest about that call.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 10:13:10 AM
While we don't know for sure it was Kelly the RCMP, say that there was a call from a pay phone that night around 10 that night to the operator of a female screaming and it was cut short. Dycoka who is familiar with that area believes there would have been one or maybe two payphones at that time. Also, the RCMP believe that call may very well have been Kelly. I just firmly believe that it would be a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't especially when one looks at the location where her body was recovered, which was almost directly south of Hussar at Chin Lake. Would be interesting to talk to people who lived in Hussar during that time and see what they remember. The town is very very small. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 03:29:32 PM
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,399.0.html

I found this link interesting, based on the 'written' description of this guy, he fits the age at the time, the tanned weathered skin description, the height and weight and I remember there being sideburns described. The hair is different as the composite sketch shows a full head of hair and this guy's is more thin, BUT parted on the side and combed across the top like the composite sketch for Kelly's killer. This guy had a notable chin that I would think would be remembered and so if it was this guy I would think the chin would have been included in the composite sketch, but possibly not. Sightings at some point indicate SW Sask connection, not far from Southern Alberta. Trades that he was involved, could have been employed in that area. What do the rest of you think???
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 03:44:37 PM
There are listings in Strathmore for Howe. No listings at this time in Standard or Hussar or Carseland or, Warner. I was looking to see if any possibility there could be a relative to this creepo in that area. I totally realize however, that Howe is a very common name and also relatives of any individual do not necessarily share the same name. Just checking to see IF any links could be made in that area, with the theory that this individual was visiting relatives for Easter............
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2008, 04:08:03 PM
Hi Chris, hope it was a good trip.

Is it such that Hussar is out of the way from the road from Standard, like someone has to drive deliberately into town as opposed to someone who just happens to drive thru it or along side of it? Are there residences within shouting distance or visible from where a payphone is or likely would have been at that time? Thanks.

Yes there were. There is a new building at the sopt of the payphone, probably the hotel. THe rink across teh street, and then houses.
Hussar does seem to be a place you plan for, not just happen upon. Unless he had pulled into the area on the other side of the tracks (which is right off the highway) where the elevators and agri shops were located, and Cook ran out, across the tracks, past the rink and to the phone which would have been the first thing she would have seen.

To get into town by car, you drove about 1 km down the highway, turn left a bit, then 2kms back to Hussar.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2008, 04:09:12 PM
While we don't know for sure it was Kelly the RCMP, say that there was a call from a pay phone that night around 10 that night to the operator of a female screaming and it was cut short. Dycoka who is familiar with that area believes there would have been one or maybe two payphones at that time. Also, the RCMP believe that call may very well have been Kelly. I just firmly believe that it would be a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't especially when one looks at the location where her body was recovered, which was almost directly south of Hussar at Chin Lake. Would be interesting to talk to people who lived in Hussar during that time and see what they remember. The town is very very small. 

Being such a small town, if that was a local person, I am sure they would have figured that out by now. I think it was Kelly myself.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2008, 04:10:45 PM
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,399.0.html

I found this link interesting, based on the 'written' description of this guy, he fits the age at the time, the tanned weathered skin description, the height and weight and I remember there being sideburns described. The hair is different as the composite sketch shows a full head of hair and this guy's is more thin, BUT parted on the side and combed across the top like the composite sketch for Kelly's killer. This guy had a notable chin that I would think would be remembered and so if it was this guy I would think the chin would have been included in the composite sketch, but possibly not. Sightings at some point indicate SW Sask connection, not far from Southern Alberta. Trades that he was involved, could have been employed in that area. What do the rest of you think???

He has the sideburns too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 04:11:52 PM
I think it was Kelly myself.

Chris, you and me both.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2008, 04:55:59 PM
I think it was Kelly myself.

Chris, you and me both.

If that phone was the one used, it was far enough from the homes that someone may not have heard it. That is why I think her entry into the town was via the railroad area. If it was from any other direction, she would have passed homes. I think the creep planned on raping her at Hussar but she got away. Speculation of course, but being there puts things into a different view.

Pedophiles who kipnap like to get that person as far away as possible from the place they were picked up from.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 08:13:50 PM
Further look at Dennis Melvyn Howe I note the following:

Things that fit the physical description of the suspect in Kelly's murder and that parallet Dennis Melvyn Howe:

Age: suspect 30 - 45, howe approx 40 in 1981
height 5'9 - 5'10 inches tall
Weight 160 - 165 pounds
Medium to heavy build
round face
tanned leathery/swarthy skin
side burns
hair parted on seemingly the same side

Things that don't seem to fit the physical description:

Howe's hair seems to be thinning compared to the composite sketch in Kelly's case, however, Howe's photo and description was 2 years after Kelly's murder, so perhaps his hair thinned out during that period.

Howe has a notable cleft chin which one would think would stand out and be included in the composite sketch if Howe was in fact involved.

Suspect in Kelly's murder appeared to be wearing glasses (prescript or sun glasses?), however one would not think sun glasses because the suspect entered a business and it's pretty customary to remove sunglasses when talking to people and entering a building. no indication Howe wore glasses, however glasses could be used to help disguise appearance.

Howe is noted to have very bad teeth, again in 1983 or after. This was 1981. No mention of bad teeth in Kelly's case, that I am aware of.

Murderer driving a 1978 ish domestic full size car.  Howe's history seems to indicate bus transportation and homeless shelters, however says he used to say he once owned a mercury.   I tried to find photos of 78Mercury or thereabouts but have not found any 4 doors, however, full size maybe doesnot necessarily indicate 4 door, not sure about that though.

We know that Howe has ties to SW Sask and spent time in LaFleche Sask, which when you look at the map, an compare to Kelly's case, Kelly's remains found at Chin Lake, Travel south from there on Highway 36 to town of Warner. Continue south to intersection of secondary Highway 501, it appears that when travelling East in Sask becomes Highway 13 (I believe) and that highway takes one nearly to LaFleche Sask. Interesting. There is nothing to indicate with certainty in the info I read, to say Howe was in Alberta, however, he was in SW Sask, committed a crime in Ontario, travelled often throughout the USA. There is no reason to believe that he WASN'T in Alberta at the time of Kelly's death.

Very interesting.

Chris, did you take photos of that area of Hussar? Whoever had Kelly held her for an hour or so before that phone call was placed. Do you think that it would be possible to be across the highway by the elevators etc  in Hussar and park the vehicle where it would not be visible and find a location to hold someone for an hour, given your view of the area?


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 09:57:00 PM
Chris, I am not skilled at inserting images but wonder if it is possible to add Howe's pic from 1983 from the Fugitive thread directly next to the composite sketch of Kelly's killer to see similarities/differences?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on August 20, 2008, 10:02:32 PM
I know this may seem too obvious but I have wondered if he took her somewhere immediately to molest her, which was more than likely his motive for taking her. That would account for some time. If he wasn't from there then he may have found a secluded area somewhere around there that he could have hidden with her. I know you would think that he would be in a hurry to leave the area but who knows what goes through someone's head just after he has kidnapped someone. I think that if he premeditated the kidnapping, which it looks like he did, he may have already picked a spot out.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 20, 2008, 11:11:06 PM
I am thinking perhaps he took her to the area that Chris is describing at Hussar, if it is remote enough not to be seen or to someone's house or an abandoned building there. It would be a 15 - 20 minute drive. Then there would be one hour unaccounted for, however, by the description of the phone call, it appears there was a great deal of distress, so your theory could very well be accurate.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 21, 2008, 05:03:10 AM
(http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/img/nghp1016.jpg) (http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/most%20wanted/howe/howe82.gif)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 21, 2008, 05:08:14 AM
In Hussar, on the south side of town across the tracks, there are many buildings to give someone some privacy. No residents, just about 7 grain elevators (at the time) and a few other business's. It does seem to be a place one could expect not to be bothered at dark.

From HUssar, you have a short trip back to highway 1, which would then take the person to highway south to Warner.

I wonder if things did not go as planned and that is why Kelly ended up the way she did. Obviously she got away and her call risked exposing the person.

I'd be shocked if the police do not already have this solved. That is probably why they do not use the sketch anymore. It seems to be a case where the police are just short on proof and maybe the dead guy in Warner is the guy?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 21, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
http://boards.aetv.com/topic/Have-Any-Cases/Sharin-Morningstar-Keenan/300006332&start=0

Found the above post regarding Dennis Melvyn Howe. A poster, whom indicates he met Howe and later turned him in and Howe left his suitcase, which this poster inventoried, does indicate a pair of prescription glasses. Thought it might be of interest because the glasses that Kelly's killer wore are the most obvious part of the composite sketch and this is the only thing I have been able to find to indicate Howe wore prescription glasses.   
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 21, 2008, 11:27:38 PM
Here is a photo of the pay phone in Hussar. I am certain this building is not 27 years old, so something else was there before. since this is main and main, it was probably a hotel or store. But I am sure the phone is the same spot. I could be wrong about the age of the building though, I hope someone familiar with Hussar would know.

(http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/img/IMG_8476.JPG)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 24, 2008, 05:27:47 PM
Wow that is weird. What are the chances that in a county with only a small population one would be a Christiansen? Wonder if the suspect was a relative of his?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 24, 2008, 08:05:57 PM
I must have read your mind because I was doing the same checking with Telus as you did, Des!

What I remember hearing from years ago (keep in mind, this could have been an assumption made years ago or it could have been fact, I have no way to know for sure), when the murderer approached the first intended victim (figure skater) who was working as a waitress, he asked her to babysit and said he was Bill Christensen. Obviously being that it is a small town, you know everyone by face if not by name and usually by both, he knew that he was not recognized.  I was told that he told the figure skater that he was a brother to one of the other Christensen men in the area and that he had just moved to the area. That would support Mrs. Cook's actions of checking with the post mistress and the bank manager that night to see if anyone new moved to the town, otherwise, why would she do that, specifically as her first action to concern that Kelly did not call her upon arriving at her 'babysitting job'. It was assumed that he went to the phone book and picked a common name.

I also found it interesting that when I pulled up the town of Hussar on the internet there is a photo of it with the sign saying that the highways are maintained by C. Christensen (spelled the same way). Obviously it is/was a common name in the area and a check into it today reveals that it remains a name common in that area.

So, could he have had connections to the Christensen family? Hard to say?  I tend to believe that he got the info from the phone book because one would not want to implicate anyone in the area, if you were associated with them, in case it could be traced back? Also, this was SO well planned out that I think this person literally thought of everything, everything other than whatever happened for that phone call to be made to the operator from the Hussar payphone (again, assuming that was Kelly and I tend to think so).

I noticed the person who posted the Warner theory hasn't posted again, so to this particular poster, I write: IF you're out there, do you have further info: NAMES, DATES etc that we could try to dig into???
 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 24, 2008, 09:09:38 PM
could this guy have given the name Bill Christensen and actually have been another Christensen or another Bill?  Sometimes I'll use a phoney name on a site but use half my name.... guess I figure people will think the whole name is phoney! ;D
Has anybody taken a look at this C Christensen to see if there's a family resemblance :-\
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 25, 2008, 08:33:36 AM
Anything is possible in this case. I tend to think that the name was chosen because it was so common and that everyone would probably babysit for the Christensen family as everyone would know at least one of these family members, so no one would question a new family member that moved into town. It could have back fired, the first intended victim/second intended victim or Kelly herself could have been related to the Christensens or could have known them VERY well or could have mentioned this to her parents who could have talked to others and discovered there was no new person in town with this name, related to this family. In a small town it would be expected that could happen but what seemed to happen is everyone was so comfortable with this person's approach and what he said that it wasn't discussed or red flagged. i realize he was approaching teens who might not concern themselves so much with local chitchat and who's doing what in the area but their parents would. There were HUGE risks taken by the murderer. Was he just lucky? Or were they calculated in some way? He spent enough time in the area to target the first victim, have to make back up plans. Like First Lady previously indicated, sounds like the figure skater/waitress gave him a name of another friend, who couldn't babysit and she gave him Kelly's name. There were a few days that past during this time and the time that Kelly was picked up for the 'babysitting job'. Where was this guy during that time? Waiting in the area? Watching things going on? Hiding out/waiting? Out of town and came back to town just for that? I don't think he would have been too much out in the open in Standard but he wasn't too afraid either? How does one become so confident in this situation? Experience perhaps along with a huge ego where you feel you're so much smarter than the rest. He would have felt very powerful and elated following this. I don't see that this would have been his last one either, given the success, unless the discovery of the body worried him because the body was never to be found in my opinion.

Could he have had any connection to the Christensen family? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. It was a part of his plan and it also would have put the RCMP into that mindset starting out in this investigation allowing this guy to have valuable time.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 25, 2008, 10:38:55 AM
you're right haunted;  he seemed to have the confidence of a big fish in a small pond; yet; he knew enough about "small town" thinking and behavior to pull off his deed .... tells me he was from a small town himself. just a thought!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 25, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
Warner is about as small as Standard. so he probably felt comfotable there and knew how much those small town folks trusted each other. I bet to this day most still do not lock up when they leave.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 25, 2008, 06:56:49 PM
Thinking the  same thing Chris. This guy, IMO, was a middle class working person with a decent job and possibly a family, just like most  of the people in that area.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 25, 2008, 08:16:04 PM
PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT!!!

http://www.port-orange.org/Police/justincase.htmI knew that there had to be another case like this somewhere, while it may not be the same murderer, it has some VERY similar details, like the babysitting aspect, victim picked up at her door AND a phone call placed to her parents that was cut short. PERHAPS the phone call that I believe was placed by Kelly at Hussar, was not 'something gone wrong' maybe it was something exactly right - like the murderer makes his victims place this call because (1) it is a game to him and the terror that the victim experiences and passes on to her parents is a thrill, all part of it. There does not appear to be a huge amount of information on the net about this case beyond what I found on this site and sites from Missing & Exploited Children.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on August 31, 2008, 11:31:17 PM
Just got back from a couple weeks vacation.  Glad to see this thread growing.

Chris if you plan another trip to the area, please let me know. I will act as your guide if you like. It will be a good exercise for me too, to stretch and refresh my memory. Not sure where you live, I am in Calgary.

Someone also mentioned trying to get new media coverage.  I had a couple of ideas floating in my head before I left; media was one of them.  I have a couple of connections and I will be making some inquiry emails this week. I will keep you posted if anything comes of it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2008, 01:01:29 AM
Sounds good. I live near Cypress Hill area of Sask.

If he you hear of anything of note, let us know. Thanks
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on September 01, 2008, 01:11:08 AM


Hi First Lady, Happy to see ya again.I read a bit from your blog, pretty interesting.

Any way what you wrote here:PERHAPS the phone call that I believe was placed by Kelly at Hussar, was not 'something gone wrong' maybe it was something exactly right - like the murderer makes his victims place this call because (1) it is a game to him and the terror that the victim experiences and passes on to her parents is a thrill, all part of it.
****************************************
This paragraph, sounds as if you were speaking of Clifford Olsen, he loved to play trickery and games.Amazing! I wonder where Clifford was?

I gotta think about this a bit.A guy like this wouldn't stop.Thanks for your insight.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on September 01, 2008, 12:28:03 PM


Hi First Lady, Happy to see ya again.I read a bit from your blog, pretty interesting.

Thanks. It's sort of a mishmash, without a central theme; just random thoughts from my mundane life. 
Started it when I ran for MLA for the 2nd time. http://www.janemorgan.ca/

Quote
Any way what you wrote here:PERHAPS the phone call that I believe was placed by Kelly at Hussar, was not 'something gone wrong' maybe it was something exactly right - like the murderer makes his victims place this call because (1) it is a game to him and the terror that the victim experiences and passes on to her parents is a thrill, all part of it.
****************************************
This paragraph, sounds as if you were speaking of Clifford Olsen, he loved to play trickery and games.Amazing! I wonder where Clifford was?

I gotta think about this a bit.A guy like this wouldn't stop.Thanks for your insight.

Actually it was haunted who made those comments.

I am not sure if Olsen is a possibility. I suspect he would have (or could have) been ruled out by now.   Sadly there are more like him out there.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 01, 2008, 02:23:31 PM
Clifford Olsen seemed interesting to me as well, due  to the time frame and the fact that the authorities were aware that he rented vehicles and put on 10,000's of km on them, however, he never went to this much trouble to find his victims. He would seek out teens who were vulnerable and Kelly wasn't one of those teens. Olsen would have stood out in Standard and with the publicity that his face received soon after Kelly's murder he would certainly have been recognized by the witnesses who saw him in Standard. I really feel that the predator in Kelly's case was much more 'middle class', who likely had a decent job and wasd comfortable in the small town setting so not to set off alarm bells among the locals just by his presence.

The link to the case in Phoenix that I found is the only thing out there that I have found (hours and hours of searching) that is similar. It is really similar. It is 9 years later though and could be a complete coincidence but interesting to note in the very least. Lots of people from Alberta go to Arizona, snowbirds, during the winter (although I will have to revisit that case to recall the time of year and see if that is consistent or not).

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 01, 2008, 04:53:32 PM
Here's another link to the case I referred to before, with a few more details:


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/martinez_maria.html


 The date of the abduction was October 13, 1990. Maybe early for snowbirds from Alberta to be going to Arizona, or maybe not. There does not appear to be many details about this case and it appears to be unsolved. Thinking about the snowbird idea because if this were the same person involved in Kelly's homicide, then this person could be as old at 55 or so in 1990 which could be an age for early retirement.

 In the case of this abduction the victim called her parents but the call was cut short in Kelly's case, it is assumed/speculated that she called the operator and her call was cut short. I wonder if in 1990 it wasn't feasable to call operator because it could be dispatched quickly to 911 or it was being recorded, where as in 1981 there was no 911 (to the best of my knowledge) and I doubt that calls were being recorded. If this is the same person with the same MO maybe he had to change things up a bit to avoid a squad of police cars being dispatched, had the call been placed to the operator at that time. OR it could be just one big coincidence because to anyone looking to prey on a child, someone advertising their babysitting career in public would be an easy target.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on September 01, 2008, 09:50:11 PM
I know some snowbirds from here that go to Arizona every year haunted. Their preferred time of departure is around thanksgiving. They have told me that the RV parks start to fill up for the winter and if you want a choice spot you get there early in the season. I don't know if that's how most people do it, but based on that statement I'm thinking a lot must. The time of Oct.13 seems realistic based on that. I also think it is possible that these were just easy targets as you said. When I was about 14 I ran an add in our local paper as I also used to babysit. I was very lucky that the creep that answered it told me on the phone exactly what he wanted to do to me and I was so shocked I hung up. After that I was only allowed to sit for family friends. I think these creeps will do whatever it takes to find a victim.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 05, 2008, 01:06:54 AM
There was a guy who worked for a travelling carnival company back near that time who was later suspected of being a serial killer. He had a prominent noticeable chin as noted in previous post. He wore glasses like in the sketch. I do not know if he was in prison for his other crimes by that time or not. Here is an picture of him but he would be a lot older in this pic than he would have been at the time of this murder. (http://mindytran.com/arnoldrecent.jpg)
Found at http://mindytran.com/recent_phototerryarnold.htm[/url]http://mindytran.com/recent_phototerryarnold.htm
Lots of info about him suspected of a half dozen murders in the U.S. as well. From-
http://mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm
 (http://mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm)
 There is more info and another picture of Terry Arnold at http://injusticebusters.com/05/Arnold_Terry.shtml (http://injusticebusters.com/05/Arnold_Terry.shtml)


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 05, 2008, 08:48:52 AM
I checked quite a bit about Terry Arnold because I thought he was interesting as well, however in 1981 I believe he was approx 18 years old, only 3 years older than Kelly and about the same from the first intended victim who saw him. This first intended victim and another 1 - 2 persons saw the murderer and placed him in 30 - 45 year range. I tend to think, also that it would be difficult to pull off the 'I need a babysitter' line when one is 18, easier when you're older. I agree though that the man who did this, must have done this before Kelly's murder and since and maybe still is, unless in prison or died.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 05, 2008, 11:30:41 AM
Arnold was suspected of 1987 murder of Denise Lapierre of Calgary. He was 42 when he committed suicide in 2005, which would have amde him 18 or so when Kelly was murdered, which just seems too young, unless the info that we have on the suspect is mistaken but it seems to me that Kellys murderer was seasoned and while it is possible that someone could/would begin a career as an sk prior to age 18, in Kelly's case I tend to believe the suspect was older.

Sure would be nice to know more from the poster who brought up the town of Warner as the possible residence of the murderer at the time, surely this poster knows a few more details than that, that could be shared.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 05, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
re: Terry Arnold. He was the other suspect in Barbara Stoppel's murder near the same time as this. Barbara was about the same age as Kelly. Arnold was living in Calgary at various times around then. He was noted as being some what a master of disguise. Contact lenses were not  common at that time and Arnold needed to wear his prescription glasses. He was a psyco and it appears that he was involved in other murders by then. I agree that the description of the age thing if accurate could rule him out but before completely doing so, I am still curious about the travelling carnival angle. Did the carnival go through that area just before the murder? If so, did that coincide with the newspaper article with the picture of the figure skater?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 06, 2008, 07:41:53 AM
It does appear this Arnold could very well have been a serial killer and it would be wonderful to know where he lived and when.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 06, 2008, 07:55:45 AM
http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf[/color

There is a lot of interesting info on Terry Arnold in this Impression Warrant. Barb Stoppel was murdered in December 1981 and it states that for some time prior to her death he had been held in a juvenile correction centre, but for how long I am not certain. Was he incarcerated at the time of Kelly's murder? I am not sure.

His height and weight was estimated by many different witnesses to many different descriptions. This is interesting because at first I would have discarded Arnold just due to his approx height/weight description. The youth thing, though is hard to discount, however in the Stoppel case, some people placed him as old as 30 and in Kelly's case the murder was placed as young as 30 and as old as 45. But 45 and 18 are a long way off. A psychiatrist noted that he was not creative, rather would imitate crimes he had seen. Has a crime like this been written or carried out in a movie, prior to 1981? I am certainly not aware and one would think that if it was the case, the media would have been all over it back then. Also the psychiatrist had him write down various 'risks' and he listed many things relevant to the Stoppel case but also put 'small towns' as a risk (to me I think of that as a risk where he would be tempted to offend or has offended). That is pretty vague though. The psychiatrist indicates that he is sloppy and Kelly's murderer was not sloppy, he was proficient which makes me think that he had a long time to think about it, plan it and carry it out. He did not want Kelly's body found where Arnold didn't seem to care about his other victims being found.

With regards to the Carnival, I may have misread the Impression Warrant but I thought it said that Stoppel was the one working at the Carnival, not Arnold, but I could be wrong.  As far as Carnivals going through the area back then, I can't say but perhaps it is indicated in newspaper archives. I can't seem to locate archives for the Strathmore Standard back then,which I think would be the paper that would be the most relevant.

While to me, Arnold does not seem the most likely suspect, it could be that I have been thinking about this case for so long that I develop my own ideas and they are hard to discard. It seems easy to lose objectivity.

 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 06, 2008, 08:09:58 AM
I also think that sometimes crimes like the one in Standard could only be done by a monster. Arnold fits that profile. But the sad truth is, many of these are done by guys who may not do it again, and maybe only did it because of panic. There are monsters out there who do travel and kill, I could be wrong, but I think most murders of woman that seem to be random may not have been.

It was not that long ago that a case where a young female murdered in Winnipeg in the 80's was solved, and it was in fact just a local guy whom appears not have ever killed anyone else. But I remember on the old SK site, it was tought to be the work of a serial killer.

I'm just glad so many of these old cases are getting solved. Whatever arnold may have done, at least DNA is there to test now. Too bad the police are not allowed to reveal anything since the pig is dead.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 06, 2008, 12:18:19 PM
The facts in this case do suggest that the someone who had become fixated on the figure skater, was likely the one who killed Kelly. There are indications of several months of planning. When Arnold killed Barbara Stoppell, he had followed here out to Winnipeg, he had fixated on her and months later followed through. Both Arnold and Stoppell had worked for the same carnival company the summer before. In my part of the world, a girl was raped in the small town where the carnival had stopped that year. I doubt there had been a crime like that for at least a decade before or after. The brazeness of Kelly's murder in particular just seems so over the top that I believe that the guy who did this could not stop himself and that it is likely that he committed more murders. This murder has not been solved by any singular piece of information or evidence yet. I just think that before throwing out one of the few known killers to be lurking about at the time, some of the little pieces should be confirmed, like did that carnival go through this area that year? How wide of a circulation did the newspaper have that published the picture of the figure skater?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 06, 2008, 12:49:40 PM
There are all kinds of similarities of behaviors and occurances that bring thoughts to mind regarding this case.  We tend to mention such when we agonize over a case such as this.  I know that as soon as I read this thread way back when, a particular story came to mind that was a Canadian movie based (if I'm not mistaken) on a novel called "LOYALTIES".  I remember watching that movie years ago; and it left an indelible memory of the danger young girls face due to something we all consider natural "baby sitting jobs".  Ever since seeing that movie, which came out in the mid 80"s, I always think of it when I hear of someone getting a baby sitter.  Yet the movie is not about that per sa, ... just reminds me of how men with a desire for young girls think of something like this and use it as a ruse to find a prey.
When I first read this thread, that movie came to my mind.  I suppose I couldn't help but wonder if the movie was based on fact and that man may have been doing this stuff there for years. ..especially the timing of the movie!
Anyone who hasn't seen "Loyalties", it was about a British Doctor who moved to Western Canada and set up a practice in rural Canada because he and his wife had to leave England because they were running from what he had done in England and came here to "start a new life".  His sick wife gave him chance after chance - even practiced preparing herself for bed at night posing as a young girl with pony tailed hair etc. to try to keep him interested and prevent him from doing it again.  
My point is, God only knows how this movie may have lit a fire under, and given suggestion to, other perv/s in that area.
Tantoo Cardinal won awards for her portrayal of the mother of the young native girl who fell victim to this man.   ....Again, I wonder if this were not just a novel but he actually did move to Alberta. back then.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 06, 2008, 07:44:46 PM
Last mention-
As haunted says in above the descriptions of Terry Arnold in the Stoppell murder vary widely, any where up to 30 years old. In Kelly's case the lower limit of the suspects age is 30.

Arnold is not completely ruled out by this but it becomes very improbable on the surface. On the other hand, one also has to take into account the amount of obstruction found in the Stoppell case that facilitated Arnold's escape from that investigation. Could any of the same be going on in this case if Arnold were Kelly's killer?

Rehashing a few points-

 Arnold had poor complexion with some noticeable acne pimples or pock marks on the left side of his face, brown mustache, tall, slim build, wearing prescription glasses,
Terry Arnold worked out doors for a carnival company.

I was a little confused by the word swarthy in the description of Kelly's killer, but saw-
quote-Re; suspect description, (I had to look up "swarthy complexion" in webster's. It means of dark colour, complexion or cast. He's also weather beaten, which could mean out door work, long years of out door work. )

Re the sketch of Kelly's killer: quote- (I think it was the waitress and/or one or two other people who were in the restaurant at the time who helped create the sketch.  I think some of them may have also underwent hypnosis to try and recall details.) 

This was a compilation of several witness accounts. Hypnosis used on witnesses can lead to a skewed description (especially if that were the desired outcome) and has ruled out witness testimony in other cases.  

Quotes from earlier posts-
What time of day did the killer ask for a babysitter at the restaraunt? Was it on the same day as Kelly's abduction?

Appears this guy was seen by more than one person in the restaurant.

From what I gather the figure skater was working in the restaurant and was first approached in person to babysit but could not so gave him a friend's name who could not, so that friend then gave him Kelly's name. He was persistent and wasn't going away until he got what he was after.

Is it true someone called the school looking for the gymnast and that gymnast is also
the waitress?
Appears this guy was seen by more than one person in the restaurant.


This guy was brave and thought he was very smart and did not think he was going to get caught so he wasn't afraid to show his face. Why? Not from there..........or never going back there..............or has done this over and over in one form or another and confidence keeps building.


The police would term Kelly's murder the most brazen murder they had ever heard of. So it was with the Stoppel murder.

Barbara Stoppel's killer had been in western Canada around the Calgary area prior to following Stoppel to Winnipeg. He may have returned again after the Stoppel murder. He killed Stoppel right in the restaurant where she worked after stalking her for months, how brazen can you get! Kelly's killer showed up at a restaurant apparently hunting a victim that he had been pursuing but opted for another that time. In neither Stoppel's nor Kelly's case did the killer try to hide his face prior to the murder and in both the killer wore prescription glasses.

I believe there was a reporter in Calgary who was investigating Arnold and said that he had family out there, possibly Strathmore. If so that would fit with someone having access to the newspaper story of the gymnast and place him in the proximaty for the rest of the events to occurr.

I do agree with the other posters though that on the surface Arnold should be ruled out solely by the age description. But, I also see that in Stoppels case where he should have been investigated, something really strange happened and he was not, despite near overwhelming evidence for him to be. I wonder the same here.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 08, 2008, 07:49:09 PM
Des; I've really leaned toward that; D1 opened my eyes a lot...he a great poster.
I also think this guy may have gotten the idea working around the carnival....using a disguise to look older...enabling him to be bold.  and had to try that out at least once.  just a thought!

I have some more of this to read however.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 08, 2008, 08:18:28 PM
Thanks guys and I'm glad to see that you are allowing for the possibility of this being Arnold's work. Just wanted to leave one thing here on this thread. To move past conjecture there is an open path that could still prove fruitful. In the news articles written by Suzanne Wilton, the name of Arnold's wife is published. Suzanne was able to contact her for information when writing her story. Arnold's former wife may still be able to provide details on where Arnold was staying after their breakup as well as vehicles that Arnold either owned or had access to. Suzanne never suspected that Arnold could be a suspect in this crime and thus never asked any questions.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 08, 2008, 08:38:23 PM
D1, I have to say that I may have developed my own tunnel vision by thinking and over thinking this crime. I am using my own thoughts and rationalizations to try to explain things when clearly a person who can commit this kind of crime probably does not think like the rest of us. My mind is open and going over time on this.

Have any of you attempted to contact someone in these sort of circumstances? Is there a protocol to this? Does one try to reach the author of the newspaper first and inquire about how she located the ex-wife or will the paper give that out given FOIP etc etc?

I have to say that while I was ready to dismiss this out right based on my own thoughts about this crime, you have given some really useful information. And I guess when you consider it, there is only a small portion of society that commits these crimes and if you have one or two of these people in an area at the given time the odds that it could be them SHOULD be exponentially higher than being some 'unknown' person. Thanks D1 I will continue to read and ask more questions.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 08, 2008, 09:30:22 PM
Haunted, I do understand all of that and don't blame you. We all do that in some way especially if we have been looking at something for a long time. The forest and the trees thing. I believe that you have your own  reasons for the interest in this murder and thats why i just wanted to point out the reporter. I would try and contact her first, she may even have contact information for the ex wife and she may even be interested in this story if she were still contemplating writing a book. Either way she could be very helpful. Wish you the best of luck. Let us know how you make out.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 12, 2008, 11:39:20 PM
Regarding Kelly's body being hidden.
Going over the news articles about Terry Arnold and the many murders he was suspected of, there were only a few that employed the use of a vehicle. The bodies of those victims were hidden, the rest were not.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 13, 2008, 03:48:11 PM
I did note that about Roberta's disappearance. In BC one would be able to hide a body in the bush and forest areas. In Southern Alberta it would be much more difficult so water is the next logical solution. Smart too, in that I am guessing it would wash away all the DNA evidence, not that anyone was aware of that in 1981. Since the case is so cold  I really wish the RCMP would open it up and let the public know of what evidence and other information they have had and have investigated. It might lead to more information trailing in. I know that is not common but in 27 years I don't think a lot of headway has been made. There don't seem to be many murders solved this long after it happened and those that have been solved lately have been due to DNA evidence. I know there is something about touch DNA which I don't know very much about but again I am guessing that water would remove the traces of that DNA as well.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 14, 2008, 01:30:22 AM
I think the water does get rid of most DNA, but there could have been some if she was raped. I sort of doubt there is much, but science is moving so fast they say in a few years they can test the air to see if someone was at a certain place and how long ago. That would be weird.

It does make me wonder where this investigation is at, and if it is stalled, why they don't go out and try to get more tips.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 20, 2008, 08:41:25 AM
I am guessing that based on poster: Sue, who said that the cold case detectives in Calgary have been pulled off the cold cases to be used in current murder investigations, is that very little is or will be done in the near future. I HOPE that this information is not correct, however, if it is I PRAY that it is a temporary thing and that the cold cases will not be forgotten and will become active investigations again.

In Kelly's case, it is so frustrating because really there is a lot of evidence or at least information. In many cases, a person is abducted and never seen again. In this case, people saw the murderer, it appears the principal at the school spoke to the murderer some time prior to the abduction, his vehiclce was observed, the phone call in Hussar is likely some sort of evidence indicating a time frame and a location, the body was recovered in an unusual manner at a location that in and of itself is probably significant. There may or may not be DNA evidence. Certainly there are phone records that could shed some light regarding the phone calls made to the school and to Kelly's house. The cinder blocks and whatever was used to bind her blocks must be some sort of evidence. There is a composite sketch. Really, there is a lot more to work with on this case than a lot of cases out there.

It is my hope that someone out there that knows something that they didn't want to bring forward in the past, or something they didnot think was significant or related. This man was so cocky, perhaps he bragged about it to someone: friend, co-worker or another inmate if he was incarcerated for other crimes.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 28, 2008, 03:12:25 PM
For those who follow this thread, information has come to light regarding the possible connection of a man (deceased) who was from the Warner Alberta area with regards to this case. Some further digging is going on and once more information is gathered, it will be posted, as long as it is not deemed libelous.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 28, 2008, 04:38:19 PM
 hope and pray this becomes solved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 29, 2008, 11:58:10 AM
I am very interested in this. Warner fits the profile and I guess there are people in that area who use the fake name that was used by the murderer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on October 27, 2008, 01:06:23 PM
Interesting post on this thread:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,355.msg18455/boardseen.html#new
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on December 16, 2008, 11:15:00 PM
Here is another interesting link to an article about a man from the general area involved in murders of females in the same general time frame.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2408.0.html
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on December 17, 2008, 12:40:25 AM
Yes, this Robert Edward Brown guy would be a POI for me. He killed 2 females in the Calgary area around the same time and they were young.

Sad thing is, there are so many people now who fit the bill that it is kind of scary to know this many freaks were running around then.

Today the Adam Walsh case was solved from 1981, so it goes to show it is never to late. I hope someone out there who has more info will post it here.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 12, 2009, 08:31:44 PM
I was a child growing up in Calgary when this murder occurred. Looking back, it seems that the killer took some pretty big risks. He phoned Kelly on the morning of April 22, 1981, from a gas station, where he was observed by the station owner, who even overheard part of the phone conversation (hence the composite sketch of Kelly's abductor). He picked Kelly up at her house that evening, and what would have happened if someone had walked by, glimpsing his license plate number (which could have been recalled under hypnosis)? And if Kelly did indeed call the operator from a pay phone in Hussar at 10 that evening, 1.5 hours after being picked up by 'Mr. Christensen', then the killer didn't get too far away from Standard in that 90 minutes of time. One would think that he would want to put as much distance between himself and Standard as possible before her parents got suspicious and contacted the RCMP.

He did phone a local 17-year old girl on April 18, asking her to babysit, but she declined. He probably decided on another girl at that point, fearing that his intended victim might be suspicious if he called her again. And time was running out for him if he didn't act soon. Brazen as he was, I don't think he'd have risked picking up Kelly at her house while the sun was shining. Daylight savings time was later in 1981 than it is now, but the end of April - marked by more daylight in the early evening hours - was drawing nigh. Had he picked up Kelly at her house before dark, there would have been a much greater chance of other folks being outside, or of Kelly's mother glimpsing the license plate as she watched through the living room window as her daughter left the house.

I spoke to a guy once who had been in grade 12 back in 1980-81 and had gone to Kelly's school. She wasn't a friend of his, but he described her as a good girl who was simply 'there'. She didn't stand out from the crowd per se, she wasn't a party animal, and this guy was puzzled over why the killer chose her when there were "some way hotter chicks at the school." A rather crude remark on his part, of course, but I feel the killer wanted to target a 'good girl' rather than an easy target, even if she was a knockout to look at. Let's face it, he could have gone to a lot less trouble if all he wanted to do was abduct and murder a teenage girl - there are teen prostitutes, for example. But he probably got some sort of thrill from abducting this nice girl from under her parents' noses. That was obviously part of the whole deal for him. It was the circumstances behind and around the crime - and not just the killing - that he got off on per se.

I also wonder about that phone call made from that phone booth in Hussar. Assuming it was Kelly, why was she so close to Standard? How did she get away from the abductor? How close was he on her heels, and was she surprised when he caught up to her at the phone booth, or did she manage to grab the phone as she wrestled with him in hopes of alerting the authorities to her plight? Perhaps we'll never know, but I feel the killer probably used the ruse of living out in the countryside, so that Kelly would not suspect his real motives until they were well away from Standard and ideally the main roads. I can only imagine how terrified she must have felt when she realized what was really transpiring.

I do recall reading newspaper articles that stated that Kelly had not been sexually assaulted. And her body was discovered fully-clothed, though badly decomposed, in Chin Lakes. What was the motive for the killing then? Not sex or ransom. Perhaps it was just his own perverted desires, and his own sickening thrills, that drove him to do what he did. He may have simply been elated on being able to pull off the abduction and murder of a teenage girl under certainly unusual circumstances. But only his confession would truly provide the answers to these questions.

It's been almost 28 years since the crime, but there's always the chance that it will be solved. Adam Walsh was murdered in 1981 in Florida, but late last year, the police announced that they'd solved the crime. Of course, Jack the Ripper was never brought to justice, so it may be that Kelly's family will never see closure in this case. The agony that her parents have endured over the years is heart-breaking to think about.

Rest in peace, Kelly Cook. Even if your killer escaped the long arm of the law in this world, he'll still have to answer for his crimes to a higher judge. God knows what we do, and no criminal can escape justice for eternity.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 12, 2009, 11:33:45 PM
AaronP:

Thanks for posting on this thread. It has been the thread of the greatest interest to me and one of the strangest to be found anywhere. I am hoping that you might be able to fill in some of the gaps in this thread and might be able to offer opinions on a couple of things. Do you know or have you heard if anyone else was at the gas station and aided in providing the composite sketch? Do you know anything about the attendant, like his/her age? What gas station was this? And what was said to cause the attendant to recall the suspect, etc?

Do you have any opinions on what could have happened or who did it?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 13, 2009, 05:03:34 AM

Well, I recall that the phone call to Kelly on the morning of April 22, 1981, was made from a service station outside Standard. I remember seeing that service station once when driving east on the TransCanada Highway from Calgary. I remember reading that the first call was made to Kelly at 8:20 a.m. Kelly answered, but there was no one there. As I recall, the abductor was using the service station public phone, and apparently you had to put a coin in once the person you had called answered on the other end of the line. A bit strange, since I've never heard of any other public phone operating in that fashion, but I read that in a newspaper article on the case. I believe the abductor had to ask the service station owner for assistance, and that's probably why the owner remembered him. The abductor made a second call to Kelly at 8:25 a.m., this time reaching her. The service station guy and a trucker both overheard parts of the phone conversation.

I think the service station owner/operator was a middle-aged white man, but I don't recall his name or age. I do remember reading that Kelly was feeling antsy about this babysitting assignment she'd accepted. She asked around at school, and none of the other kids knew anybody by the name of 'Bill Christensen'. That evening, she was apparently on the phone with a friend of her's, prior to being picked up by the abductor, and she asked her friend if she knew of anybody with that name. I wonder if Kelly expressed her apprehensions to her parents? Ideally, even if the abductor had come to the front door, her mother or father should have insisted on driving Kelly to the babysitting site (i.e., follow along behind the abductor's car), since they didn't know this guy. But I grew up in Calgary, not a village, where the atmosphere is different, and hindsight is 20/20, of course. When you're a teen, you don't always approach your parents with such concerns, anyhow, feeling that you can deal with things on your own without having to hold anyone else's hand.

Kelly's body was dumped in Chin Lakes several yards from the shore (as it would have been in April) and 200 yards from the highway bridge. Her body was weighted down with concrete blocks, which suggests that they were placed on her body. That would have been difficult to do by tossing a body off the bridge! I guess the killer waded out into the water, well away from the highway bridge (and possible observation), and dumped her body out as far as he could wade (the water would have been cold!). That May in Calgary was very wet, but the winter of 1980-81 had been very mild and dry in southern Alberta, so even with a wet May, once June rolled around, there was more demand for irrigation water, and the level of Chin Lakes started to drop, exposing the corpse. The body was found on June 28, 1981, by a youth (teenage boy?) who was motorcycling along the shores of the lake. Kelly's parents were informed the next day, which coincided with their wedding anniversary.

I recall reading that Kelly died of asphyxiation (lack of air), but I don't know how exactly. Her body was so badly decomposed when it was found that identification could probably only have been made through dental records. She was probably killed shortly after being abducted. I wonder if she was killed near Hussar or at Chin Lakes, but I don't think the killer would have taken a chance driving all that way with Kelly alive in his car (and liable to fight back or try to escape). Just my opinion, anyhow!

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 13, 2009, 08:28:06 AM
AaronP:

That is really interesting information.

Would you happen to know which end of the Highway 36 bridge her body was dumped nearest to? The north east end closest to Taber or the south west end, closest to Wrentharm and Warner?

I did not realize that her body was found that far away from the bridge.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 13, 2009, 08:35:46 AM
AAron P, can you possibly paste a map with the site marked?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 13, 2009, 10:07:58 AM
Thanks for the info. Those details do help paint a picture about the type of girl Kelly was and the possible motives of the killer. I wonder if the reason no assult took place was because Kelly faught back hard? It does seem she did manage to escape once.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 13, 2009, 10:20:41 AM
Violent sex offenders definitely can get angry enough (once fought off) to lose their urge and just kill instead. imho
I do believe this would include:
~those who rape with the intention to illiminate the witness/victim.
~those who didn't necessarily intend to kill the victim but just became angry     enough, after losing their "urge" throught the victim's constant struggle.
~those who get the most satisfaction from "the struggle" - hense become enraged by a frightened-motionless victim, who perhaps thinks if they get through the pain of the rape, they may just get away with their lives.
- again...just my humble opinion!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 13, 2009, 07:39:05 PM

I decided to get an idea of who Kelly Cook was. After all, we should remember the victim, not just the crime.


1) Calgary Herald newspaper articles, April to July 1981 - Kelly was 15 when she was abducted in April 1981, and I recall a June article stating that she could have been celebrating her 16th birthday had she been at home. The July obit section, shortly after her body was discovered, stated that she was 16. That would imply that Kelly was born in June 1965 and was murdered in April 1981, 2 months before her 16th birthday. I also recall an article that stated that Kelly had mentioned she was interested in becoming a lawyer.

2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35 - the article interviewed Donald Cook, Kelly's uncle, who lived in Montreal '... where Kelly and her family lived before moving to Alberta 10 years ago'. This would imply that Kelly was born down east and moved with her family to Alberta in 1971 (she would have been 5 or 6 years old at the time).

3) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p.48 - the mayor of Standard at the time, Elmer Jensen, described Kelly as "... one of our brightest and best liked girls" and also says that "Kelly was well-respected because she was very considerate of older people." The mayor also said of the Cook family: "They are a closely-knit, clean living family." The article states that Kelly '... had maintained an average exceeding 80% this year...' and that on April 22, she '... completed her homework after school so she would be free in the evening'. This is in keeping with the mayor's comment, alluding to Kelly as both diligent and intelligent. Finally, the article mentions that Kelly was in Grade 10 (which would be commensurate with her age) and that she '... usually babysat once or twice a week, the arrangements usually made by phone'. Therefore, since she babysat regularly, she probably wouldn't have been surprised at receiving a babysitting offer over the phone.

4) I also spoke to 2 persons who knew Kelly. One fellow was in Grade 12 in 1980-81 and attended the same school that Kelly went to. He knew of Kelly, but they weren't friends. He said that Kelly "was just... there." This guy lived life on the wild side, and I don't think Kelly was the kind of girl he would have gone for. Also, while attending university, I met a girl who hailed from the Standard area. She mentioned that Kelly did not have a boyfriend at the time of her disappearance.

5) Calgary Herald article on the case (March or April 1986) - it mentioned that her full name was Kelly Jane Evelyn Cook.

And that's a brief overview of who Kelly Cook was.



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 13, 2009, 08:00:26 PM

I referenced the following articles re: the lead-up to the abduction of Kelly Cook:

(1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p.48

(2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35

(3) Alberta.com news article, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"


'The tragic story actually began to unfold in March 1981 when a man telephoned the principal of the local school requesting information about a particular student, not Kelly. When the principal refused to comply, the man hung up. Then, on April 18, four days before the abduction, a local 17-year-old girl received a call from a man identifying himself as Bill Christensen. He asked her if she could babysit. The teenager said she couldn't but gave him the names of Kelly and another friend'. (3)

' At 8:20 a.m. on April 22, the telephone rang in the Cook house. Kelly answered, but nobody was there. Less than five minutes later the phone rang a second time and it was Bill Christensen asking her to babysit that night. Police suspect the first call was made from a country telephone booth outside a Shell service station several kilometres outside of town. The phone worked by inserting a quarter after the person being phoned answered and police speculated that the man didn't know how it worked and then walked inside the service station. On the way inside, he asked a trucker if he could use the office phone. The trucker suggested he ask the service station owner'. (3) '... service station attendant Lee Abbott was able to provide the RCMP with their only lead'. (1)

'The caller arranged to pick her up at 8 p.m. and bring her home by midnight, the curfew set by her parents for mid-week babysitting jobs, Miss Cook told a fellow student Cindy Krabsen, 16. Since she didn't recognize the voice, she had asked him if he knew where she lived. He reassured her by providing the names of her next door neighbours. But Miss Cook was uneasy. She had never heard of a Bill Christensen, although there are some 30 families in Standard with that surname. "She was asking quite a few people about him," recalls Miss Krabsen. "By the end of the day, she must have been anxious. Nobody knew who he was." Marion Cook recalled that her daughter, who had maintained an average exceeding 80% this year, completed her homework after school so she would be free in the evening'. (1)

'A man fitting the suspect's description was believed to have been in a hotel bar in Standard April 22. An informant told police the man used the phone in the bar, bought a case of beer, and left'. (2)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 13, 2009, 10:02:30 PM
Hi Aaron, jeez we been talking on here forever with next to no info and all of a sudden you show up with a whole library full. Now I have to reread all the old stuff to figure in the new info. Might be awhile; have you read the earlier thread and if so, did you notice anything that we had based assumptions on that was completely erroneous?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 14, 2009, 05:09:18 AM
D1:

Well, I stumbled across this site by accident. I remember the Cook murder case very well, even though I've never been to Standard. I always wondered how somebody could pull off a crime like that without getting caught. I have access to some older articles about the case, and those types of articles usually go into greater detail about a case than newer reports. For example, Kelly's uncertainty over who Bill Christensen was... that was mentioned back in 1981, but newer reports probably wouldn't talk of it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 14, 2009, 06:39:44 PM

I referenced the following articles:

(1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p.48

(2) Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

(3) Calgary Sun, November 5, 2005, "Who Killed Kelly?"


'Walter said he had just gotten home from a long day of work and was practically walking through the front door when Kelly was leaving around 8:30 p.m. "Kelly said "Hi dad, bye dad, I'm going babysitting" and she was gone," Walter said. (3)

'That night, she and her husband Walter, a fertilizer plant employee, were pouring over legal documents at the living room table when their daughter announced the arrival of the man. However, he didn't come to the door as most other parents did, and chose instead to wait in the car. Although she thought that was slightly unusual, Mrs. Cook returned to the table. Not until 9:30 p.m. did she begin to suspect something was amiss. Her daughter always called her from an employer's home to leave a telephone number and address. This time she didn't phone'. (1)

'At 8:30 p.m. that evening a car pulled up in front of Kelly's house. Her mother asked Kelly to phone when she reached her destination and she and her younger daughter, Marnie, watched through the window as Kelly got into the car. The call from Kelly never came'. (2)

'... within an hour, Marion knew something was amiss. "We had a deal when Kelly was babysitting that she would phone when she got there and she never phoned," Marion said. "I started phoning her friends. I phoned the postmistress to ask if anyone new moved to town and I called my friend at the bank and asked her, too." Meanwhile, at about 10 that night, a call was placed to an operator from a pay phone in Hussar, about 25 km away. All the operator heard before the call was cut short was the sound of a woman or a girl screaming. Police believe that call might very well have been from Kelly'. (3)


MY COMMENTS: The original news article stated Kelly was picked up at 8:00. However, I believe the time was probably 8:30. By 8:30, it would definitely have been dark outside. Also, I guess Mr. Cook arrived home from a long day of work and then immediately started perusing legal documents with his wife.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 14, 2009, 06:47:14 PM
Kelly's murder is one of the strangest and most brazen I have ever heard of anywhere. The killer drives right up to the door, waiting for his victim, all in a remote little small town in bible belt Alberta.
And he has gotten away with it thus far..Weird as hell..

This is the first we heard that Kelly was asking around so much and had reservations about the guy offering her the baby sitting job.

From April 18th the day the first intended victim was called, till April 22 in the morning when Kelly was called, there were 4 days to come up with a plan after getting Kelly's name.

Would the details of this plan, the names used, the actions that ensued, be available to someone from out of town, or would there have had to be some local involvement?

Where would the perp have obtained the information he used to build his ruse??

Are there hints within the details of the ruse that could lead back to the perp??

Kelly wasn?t entirely comfortable with the story. Did the Christianson mentioned even have a brother? Did that Christianson have kids that went to school?

I believe that somewhere in these details there are more answers to be found.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 14, 2009, 06:50:53 PM
I referenced the following articles:

(1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p. 48

(2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35


'By midnight, the now frightened parents were convinced their daughter was in trouble and phoned the RCMP. The police immediately telephoned all the Christensens in Standard. No one knew anything of the young girl's whereabouts that night. But even more alarming was the fact that no one knew a Bill Christensen. Unable to turn up a trace of Miss Cook, the RCMP contacted Colin Grant, director of the range patrol, citizens' crime watch sponsored jointly by the Mounties and the Alberta Cattle Commission, and told them to organize a search. Police and about a dozen patrol members knocked on every door in the village and scoured its perimeters. They, too, found no trace of her. "There is no doubt the suspect either lived in the area or frequented it," says RCMP Corporal Craig Green. "He knew what Kelly looked like and what her name was. He also knew the town layout and some of the neighbours. Other than that we have very little to go on." But police do not know of any area residents who disappeared at the same time the girl did'. (1)

'Last Tuesday, a second mass hunt was organized. Some 500 residents from the village and surrounding communities jammed the Standard community hall to hear the RCMP co-ordinate a ground and air search. The following day, about 200 men using motorcycles, aircraft, horses and four-wheel drive vehicles probed every coulee, slough, building and abandoned car within a 40-mile radius of Standard, but again were unable to find a single clue'. (1)

'Standard residents, who conducted four intense searches within a 40-mile radius of the village the week following her disappearance, still make periodic checks of barns and fields, hoping to find clues'. (2)

'The abduction of Kelly Cook has stirred up emotions in the Standard area to the point where the case was raised on the floor of the House of Commons last week. Progressive Conservative MP Gordon Taylor, who represents the riding of Bow River, in which the village is located, asked Solicitor-General Robert Kaplan to ensure that every effort is made to find the girl'. (2)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 14, 2009, 07:03:36 PM
I referenced the following articles:

(1) Alberta Report, July 10, 1981, p. 36

(2) Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

'The two-month search for 15-year-old Kelly Cook, abducted from her home in Standard April 22 by a man who had asked her to babysit his children, ended June 29 when her badly decomposed body was found in an irrigation canal 90 miles southeast of Standard. The grisly discovery was made by two Taber youths who were riding motorcycles on Highway 36 along the shore of Chin Lake, a natural reservoir 25 miles east of Lethbridge... The body had deteriorated so much that Calgary's medical examination office was unable to determine how, or when, Kelly Cook died.

Bound at the hands and feet by ropes, the girl's body had been anchored to the bottom of the lake, by two concrete blocks. It had been dumped several yards from shore, and about 200 yards from the highway bridge. An RCMP spokesman in Lethbridge explained that the body was finally discovered because the level of Chin Lake had dropped significantly over the past few weeks, leaving it exposed.

The RCMP subsequently dragged the lake in an unsuccessful search for additional clues, and a team of divers also conducted a fruitless exploration. The body is the first physical evidence uncovered since Miss Cook disappeared, and at least provides police with leads to pursue. Service station and restaurant owners on Highway 36, the route most likely followed by the abductor will be questioned, as will some Taber residents'. (1)

'Exactly what happened to the 15-year-old Grade 10 student after that was unclear until two months later, June 28, when a youth riding his motorcycle along the north shore of Chin Lakes discovered her fully-clothed body. The water line of the irrigation canal had dropped over a period of time, exposing the corpse. Kelly's decomposed body was rope-bound and anchored by concrete blocks'. (2)

'Following the discovery of her body, there was an eerie twist in the case. On July 2, 1981, a man went into the Calgary funeral home where Kelly's body was being kept and demanded to see the corpse. Attendants turned him away. Police still haven't been able to determine whether the man was her killer. Police say it was not common knowledge that Kelly's body was in that funeral home following the autopsy'. (2)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 14, 2009, 07:08:33 PM

As per the news reports I've quoted, Kelly's body was dumped in Chin Lakes, several yards from shore (in April 1981), about 200 yards from the highway bridge, and on the north shore of the lake. The following hyperlink shows Chin Lake, including where the highway bridge crosses it. As per the details I've provided, you will probably be able to get an idea as to where exactly the body was disposed of.

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prairies/fisheriesmanagement/pdf/bathymetricmaps/chinp.pdf


Also attached is a photo of Route 36 south of Vauxhall. This is the route Kelly's killer probably took, although I have no idea whether Kelly was alive or dead at the time.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 14, 2009, 07:33:17 PM
Great stuff!! Can pretty well answer my own questions now. No Bill !!  Hard to find a brother of a non existant person.

Re: police believe there was local involvement.. 

What all led to this conclusion?? Had to be something in the details of the ruse?? How did the police  know he recognized Kelly??
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 14, 2009, 08:08:45 PM
Wow, thanks for posting all that. I never heard of the guy who showed up at the funeral place. That is very odd. Also there is the police who confirmed that the person must ahve lived or frequented the area. Which is also odd since no one knows who the guy is.

This may be one of the biggest mysteries in Canada.

By chance, do any of the artilces mention the address from which Cook was living at? Next time I am there, I'd like to see that place.

Also, I think I know the gas station they are talking about. It is long gone now, but it is half way between Hussar and Standard.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 14, 2009, 08:57:12 PM
With just the information that is now here is it possible the suspect wasn't local at all?  He had 4 days from contacting the first intended victim by phone and got Kelly's name and phone number. He had time to do some digging on his own. It was a small town and easy to get information. Maybe Kelly's house or their neighbours house had their names on it or the mail box etc?  This guy could have stopped a younger kid walking home from school asking which house was Kelly's or have someone point her out to him. Perhaps a school year book that was at the local library? Is it possible that someone who was sufficiently motivated and with 4 days may have been able to come up with the information that the police are implying made this guy local - street address and what Kelly looked like?

Perhaps the suspect wasn't local but was staying with/visiting someone who was or his work frequenty brought him to the area and was staying in a hotel in Strathmore or something?



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on January 14, 2009, 09:38:38 PM

AaronP , Have been busy lately, but have gone over your posts. I am going to re read the thread. Welcome here, and thanks for the information you have provided.

Wouldn't it be great if this crime was finally solved?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 14, 2009, 10:26:21 PM
I do intend to go back and read the whole thread; but for now here's a bit of what nags at my mind:
Between the Trucker, who this guy asked if he could use the phone, the service station attendant, and whoever worked the bar where this guy had a drink and left with a case of beer, - enough observation would have been made to describe height, weight, clothes, hair color, possibly car make and color..if any accent etc.  .....what was done with all that information? ....there's got to be something to go on somewhere!
I'm saying, if the local yocals (police) couldn't find or figure it out, well why in God's name didn't they at least publicize whatever they had to help find out who this guy was.  In this day and age, i'm sure there's a smart profiler out there who could paint a pretty good picture of who or what could be involved here.  Sounds to me like there was quite a bit to go on, just no spark in the minds envolved....or else so much shock and panic, brains were temporarily impaired.  It's time this case got solved.  I'll bet Aaron P...you could probably do it.... you know enough people to get all the facts and ask questions that may not have, and should have been asked back then.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on January 14, 2009, 10:40:44 PM


I am going to echo Ling, on that post!  :) :)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 14, 2009, 11:29:38 PM
ok...is this the Chin Lake spot where the bridge crosses the highway? I can't really tell on the other pic.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 15, 2009, 06:58:31 PM
I was asked by another person to review the previous postings and see if there was any misinformation. This posting of mine is intended to set the record straight on a few things.

Sources I am referring to are as follows:

(1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p. 48

(2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35

(3) Alberta Report, July 10, 1981, p. 36

(4) Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

(5) Calgary Sun, November 5, 2005, "Who Killed Kelly?"

(6) Calgary Herald, 1986 special article, "The Unsolved Puzzle"


A. How could the killer have been identified if Kelly's parents didn't get a look at him?
- The call that the killer made to Kelly from a service station was overheard by an attendant and a trucker. 'Police have since hypnotized the trucker and the service station owner, who overheard parts of the phone conversation, in an attempt to come up with a better description of the suspect'. (4) 'The attendant recalled seeing a man aged 40 to 45 making a phone call from the station phone booth about 8:30 a.m. April 22. Nearby was a 1975 cream-coloured North American-manufactured car'. (1)

B. Kelly's friend who referred the killer to Kelly for babysitting was a gymnast.
- No, she was a figure skater. 'In March of that year, a photo ran in a local paper of a girl from a figure skating club. It's believed the same man who would eventually abduct and murder Kelly Cook saw the photo... On April 18, he phoned the girl... and asked her if she could babysit. She said no, but passed on Kelly's name...'. (5) Kelly was a member of the Standard Figure Skating Club between 1977 and 1981 (6), so that's probably how they knew one another.

C. The killer went to a laundromat in Standard.
- There's no news account of this. On April 22, the suspect was seen at a gas station and at a hotel bar in Standard. (2)

D. Was Kelly's killer responsible for killing two other women - one at a convenience store and one along a highway?
- No. Those murders of Laurie Boyd of Okotoks (killed at a convenience store) and Debbie Stevens of High River (picked up along the highway) were committed by Jim Peters and Rob Brown (now deceased). They were charged with the 1981 slaying of Stevens and the 1982 slaying of Boyd, but no charges were laid against either man with respect to Kelly Cook's death.

E. The killer's original target was approached while she worked at her waitressing job.
- No, the culprit phoned her and asked her to babysit; he didn't approach her in person. (5) Also, no mention was ever made in the news if she held a waitressing job or not.

F. Cinder blocks were used to anchor Kelly's body.
- Concrete blocks were mentioned (3) (4) in two articles I referenced, and cinder blocks in another (5).

G. A motorist discovered Kelly's body not too far offshore in Chin Lakes.
- No, Kelly's body was discovered by two Taber youths who were riding motorcycles along the shore of Chin Lakes. The body was not submerged when it was discovered, as the level of Chin Lake had dropped significantly over the past several weeks, leaving it exposed. (3)

H. Kelly's cause of death is not known.
- This was initially stated to the public (3). However, a late 1980s article in the Calgary Herald did say that Kelly died of asphyxiation. It went into no more detail than that as I recall.

I. Kelly's body was discovered because of a major drought and heavy irrigation requirements, causing the level of Chin Lakes to drop.
- Actually, May 1981 was a wet month in southern Alberta. Environment Canada recorded a May precipitation total of 142 mm in Calgary (normal is 60 mm) and 69 mm in June (normal is 80 mm). So it was hardly a dry spring. However, the winter of 1980-81 had been very mild and dry, up until May. So the region was in a drought around the time that Kelly was abducted, but not so around the time her body was discovered. The demand for irrigation would have increased as the crops grew, so it was probably not a huge demand for water per se - news reports did not state that the drop in the reservoir level was unusual.

J. Kelly's body was thrown over the bridge crossing Chin Lakes.
- No, this is not true. Kelly's body was discovered 200 yards away from the highway bridge. (3) Unless the killer had the strength of Superman, he couldn't have thrown Kelly's body that far.

K. People in a restaurant helped create a sketch of the killer (as that was where the killer's original target worked as a waitress).
- No, this is not true. No mention was made in the news whether the original target worked as a waitress, as police never publicly identified her. (5) The police developed a composite sketch after hypnotizing the service station attendant and trucker who overheard the phone call the killer made to Kelly. (4)

L. Kelly was still alive when dumped into Chin Lakes.
- This was never reported in any media accounts I read. That's a theory, but certainly not a fact.

M. Kelly's body was partially-clothed when discovered.
- No, Kelly's body was fully-clothed when discovered. (4)

N. The killer may have planned his crime for that time period because of Easter break, which would have meant no school for Kelly the next day.
- Actually, Kelly did attend school on April 22 (1), so that particular week after Easter did not constitute a week off from school.

O. Kelly was molested.
- Initially, police refused to confirm whether she had or hadn't been raped. (6) However, I did read a late 1980s Calgary Herald article which stated that Kelly had not been sexually assaulted, leaving investigators baffled as to the motive for her slaying.

P. The killer told his intended 17-year-old target that he was a brother to a Christensen who lived in the area.
- No mention was ever made of this in news accounts that I recall.

Q. There may be some clues around Hussar.
- Hussar is about 25 kilometers away from Standard. (5) However, an RCMP-coordinated ground and air search the Tuesday following her disappearance scoured the countryside, including buildings and coulees, within a 40-mile radius of Standard. (1) It's likely that there weren't any clues to be had, as four intense searches within this radius were conducted in the week following Kelly's disappearance. (2)


Anyhow, I hope that clears things up!


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 15, 2009, 08:38:56 PM
Aaron; you have been busy! Excellent!! This answered all of the obvious questions and gets us all a lot closer to what we should be looking for. Now that you have gone through everything and cleared up all the misconceptions, do you have a new sense of what may have gone on here? These are still the most unusual and bizarre of circumstances to be found anywhere..it had to be one strange fellow who would even attempt to pull this off.
it will take us awhile to digest all this but I'm sure we will have a whole new batch of questions and a much deeper insight. Thanks,
d1


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 15, 2009, 08:50:58 PM
Aaron; is the pic I posted (few posts previous to this) actually the highway bridge at Chin Lakes?...if so, what geographical direction is it?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 15, 2009, 08:56:05 PM
What I mean Aaron is: on the pic you posted, I can't tell where the bridge is...can you help me.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 15, 2009, 09:07:34 PM
I copied the bridge picture into a file and blew it up larger. Lots of detail, the bridge is at the end of a curve in the photo. I believe the picture was taken looking west to east.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 15, 2009, 09:42:51 PM
D1; I just tried copying and opening with different pic programs...I lose the pixels when I blow it up.  I get a better look at the original posted....but I still don't see the bridge.
The pic with bridge, I posted, is suppose to be chin lakes bridge, but I have never been west, and have no idea which end of the bridge points east or west...or if it's on highway 36....or crosses highway 36...guess I'll have to go back to the maps and try to find one that might help me figure out where she would have been found (as to what direction he may have stopped vehicle from, I suppose it wouldn't indicate whether he was coming or going, because he may have back-tracked) ...just curious as to where he would have walked - seems to me, he had to be familar with the area to be that precise.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 15, 2009, 09:56:03 PM
The picture looses quality the bigger it gets but at one point the bridge is quite visible. Like you said, even on here you can see the bridge and a litle patch of blue water that it passes over. 'glasses required for any detail at all though". On the other download there is a map showing the layout of the bridge and shoreline in relation to the highway and pull outs. the gov/doc
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 16, 2009, 10:50:08 AM
Wow that is just breathtaking.

I wonder if that guy in Warner who was mentioned in this thread was considered a suspect? In fact, I wonder if the police ever had a legit suspect? And if so, is that person still alive?

This is definetly a very very bold crime and one has to wonder if he has struck again?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 16, 2009, 12:38:23 PM
I would tend to believe that whoever it was that committed this crime would not be able to stop and would be involved in more of the same. Brazen is almost his MO. Brazen usually leaves clues..

Now that more of the details about Kelly's case have been firmed up, it will be easier to check for similarities in other cases..

I believe this guy can still be tracked and found through a combination of location /M.O./ vehicle/ victim(s)/ witness descriptions/ etc.

The car seen at the phone booth and at Kelly's house is interesting in regard to another missing girl who disappeared a year later from a phone booth a whole province away and involved a similar vehicle description.
see- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,69.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,69.0.html)

The police seemed to have suspect, (a rapist) in that case, but nothing happened..
Similar allegations have been voiced in kelly's case. A suspect was questioned but nothing more came of it.
It would be interesting to compare suspect photo's with the police sketch.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 16, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Wonder if the perp was just going through to visit a relative somewhere in the area for Easter? Couldn't find any information on a suspect vehicle for the girl down south in the U.S. but the timing and direction of travel is suspicious at the very least.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 16, 2009, 05:36:38 PM
Des; this may have been mentioned wayyyy back when, but to folks familiar with that area, how common would the appearance of cinder blocks be....would they have been laying around a lot in a certain place....such as
-around where a place had been torn down?
-left in the back of a pickup truck as back then, often used in truck's box up against the cab for extra tracktion on ice and snow?
-left by illegal dumping around the Chin Lake area (which in passing, may have sparked an idea to use them to help dispose of the body?
-Perhaps this guy was staying at a construction site...or working at one....or staying at a home which had these laying around.
All said and done, it seems the authorities should have seriously looked for matches to them.....if they are still around in evidence today, they could still be analyzed for elements, structure and comparison today - one would think...also the material used to bind her.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 16, 2009, 06:17:35 PM
Lost

I agree. The rope (assuming rope) that bound her may have evidence. Hair can easily get caught in the fibres of a rope and would survive being in water. The blocks (cinder or concrete) could also hold valuable information. Did the blocks appear used or new? Do the materials they were composed of give indication of where they were made, purchased or the age of the blocks?

The idea of blocks being in a vehicle for traction is possible but by that time of the year in that area, there isn't much in the way of bad road conditions that people are remaining prepared for. Still of course possible. If I recall checking past weather reports, the weather was good that day - I believe it was around 14 degrees at the warmest time of the day. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2009, 06:55:55 PM

Hi! I just thought I'd better add a few more facts re: this case. I want to state that the police have been doing everything they can to solve it.

I'm quoting the following references:

(1) Calgary Herald, 1986 special article, "The Unsolved Puzzle"

(2) Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

Between 1981 and 1986, 'more than 20 RCMP investigators have been handed the Cook file. All have reviewed it with a fresh outlook, but in the end all have come to the same conclusion: not a stone has been left unturned in the search'. (1)

'Over the years the murder file has been shifted from investigator to investigator for a fresh look, yet all of them have been stumped'. (2)

'... strongly believes the killer and police have crossed paths at some time during the investigation, which has exhausted thousands of man hours'. (2)

"I don't want to say that we've missed something and we've spoken to the guy, but when you look at the volume of work that has been done, I find it hard to believe that we wouldn't have spoken to the (killer) at least once... I don't know if he's been interviewed but I'm sure he's been spoken to. It's such a massive file that has gone on for so long and so many people have been spoken to." (2)

'Although town residents are disappointed the case remains unsolved, they are not critical of the police. Most say the police have done everything they can'. (1)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 16, 2009, 08:17:14 PM
Yes I agree too the police did a great job this case too. It might even be the most investigated case ever in Alberta it seems.

Those men and women I am sure also put in extra effort because it was a child who was murdered.

It seems lilely IMO the police did in fact at least once contact the killer. In fact, the sketch may just be a hoax, who is to say even the guy at the gas station really saw this guy? It could be it was him. Here is why:

The gas station is closer to Hussar then Standard. Say she was there at the station (which may have had a house too) and escaped. She'd probably run to Hussar since I think the elevators are visible. He probably got in his car and drove toward Standard, did not see her, so drove toward Hussar (about a 45 minut walk maybe)?

The way Hussar is laid out, if she saw him coming, she ran across the tracks and into town to grab the payphone while he drove around to the entrance to town and grabbed and then killed her.

Why Chain lakes? Maybe he fished there or something?

Being at the station means he was not part of the Standard comminuty either, and he may have described a person whom he had seen before (which is why someone at the Hotel said they saw him).

This is just a theory, and one that expalins the time gap and such. Just trying a new way of thinking this case out.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 16, 2009, 08:21:28 PM
This theory of coarse is based on the gas station being the one on the highway at the Chancellor turnoff between Hussar and Standard. If not, then obviously this does not work.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 16, 2009, 09:44:20 PM
I'd say that theory bears merit Chris.... and I'll bet, given some quiet concentrating on it...and knowing the area and maybe even the habits of folks out that way, you and a few more could probably come up with a few more worth looking at. 
I was playing (for the first time) Christmas Day, the came of Clue with my daughter and grand daughter; it was amazing how scientific the whole thing can be.... the more possibilities you come up with, the better the chance of covering all ground....as you come up with scenarios that match the bits and pieces of info., then begins the narrowing down of possibilities.
Crime solving can very often be scientific - all possible profile of POI layed out with all possible clues.
Cris, Adrian, D1, Des, Haunted, Mauve, and a few more....you would make a great criminal investigative team.... if you guys had the physical evidence detectives have...and access to information they have, I would wager a very large bet, this board would have half as many cases on it.... imho
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 17, 2009, 01:43:50 AM
yes it is amazing how little clues and bits of info can help piece things togather. I remember when I visited Hussar and Standard last August that abandoned gas station and never really thought anything about it except that I like to explore old buildings. But if that is the location, and it is possible that could be the spot.

I wonder if locals in Standard and Hussar remember if the gas station person at all? Maybe this spring, I will spend a night just so I can ask around.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 17, 2009, 03:17:14 AM
I found an area map of the vicinity surrounding the gas station. There are other significant sized bodies of water near there too. The killer had other water drop options besides Chin (if he knew the area)
Maps: see-http://www.ourheritage.net/maps/south_ab_ca1918_31.html (http://www.ourheritage.net/maps/south_ab_ca1918_31.html)

Re:
Quote
The police seemed to have suspect, (a rapist) in that case, (Joanne Pederson?s) but nothing happened..
Similar allegations have been voiced in Kelly's case. A suspect was questioned but nothing more came of it. It would be interesting to compare the suspect photo's with the police sketch.

Explanation:
It is quite possible that confidentially the police have a potential suspect, but just don?t have the evidence to back it. Freedom of information, confidentiality laws etc... would all come into play and prohibit anyone from knowing. Suppose for instance that the rapist suspected in Joanne Pederson?s murder, http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,69.msg139.html#msg139
and the person questioned in Kelly?s case, were one of the same; that they have been linked by location and timing but the police lack the confirming physical evidence to get anywhere past coincidence? It might not be a question of who, but how do you prove it? The hands of the police can be tied for reasons other than we are told.

Point being, we may not be looking for anything new here in order to identify the perp. After 20 or so investigators, there might not be any more stones to be turned over. They likely have all the evidence there will ever be, and assumedly, have tested it all for any forensics. Maybe the answer has been staring us right in the face all along!! We just have to see it. Like that picture you can only see one way until you stare at it awhile, then the old woman suddenly changes into the young damsel.

Brazen would not go silently into the night; he would surface again. We might all see him, but would we recognize him?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: capeheart on January 17, 2009, 10:24:36 AM
Di, I like you feel that the answer to solving Kelly's murder is staring right in plain sight. The more the file is gone over, the more things add up. Something in the first pages of this investigation probably hold the answer. If there was a strong clue that was felt that could solve the case, go back to it because that is probably the answer. If you notice in most of the cold cases solved, the answer was right there in the initial investigation. The murderer was possibly someone that did not live in the community and then maybe they are right in plain sight. No one suspected a person right in their own community of the murder in Ebson, just a couple of months ago. So the person could be right there living in the neighbourhood and holding the secret over all these years. Nothing can be overlooked. Hope it is solved at some point in time and that Kelly's family can close their eyes at night and know the killer is behind bars. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on January 17, 2009, 10:58:12 AM
Exactly Capeheart, having been interested in cold cases for years, I've done a lot of reading on different cases. It seems that a lot of the time, the name of the murderer appears somewhere in the initial police investigation. As D1 pointed out, RCMP may have simply lacked the evidence needed to proceed. Like was said, any available evidence has probably been gathered and gone over with a fine tooth comb. The possibility is that it won't be any new evidence that will solve this case, just new eyes looking at it from a fresh perspective. This has been going on for far too long now. It's time for some peace and closure for Kelly's family, and justice for Kelly, whose life ended far to soon.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on January 17, 2009, 12:55:02 PM


What age does anyone feel that Kelly's killer would be today? The word brazen comes up, and is fitting for this crime. Someone as bold as he, as diabolical as he, would never stop doing what he likes best, killing.

You know Arthur Shawcross, went to jail for slaying children. When he was released, his urges turned to killing Sex Trade Workers. This was in New York. The gals said he was a good john, until he couldn't get it up, then he went haywire, and visiously slaughtered them.

The fellow here, may have done the same. You guys are fantastic thinkers, and it would be great if this killer was caught.

RIP Kelly Cook ((hugs)) and may some kind of peace, and closure come to the friends and family of Kelly.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 17, 2009, 12:57:07 PM
Let's assume the guy was 38 - 44 in 1981. I guess that would make him 66 - 72 now. A good chance he is alive unless that guy in Warner was the killer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 17, 2009, 05:01:48 PM

Hi! Since I joined this thread earlier this week, I've posted a lot of factual data. I noticed some people had asked questions, so I'll try to answer them as best I can.

1) Was anyone else at the gas station where the killer called Kelly other than the service station attendant and the trucker?
- I don't know. If so, it was never mentioned in the news reports. Most likely, however, but apparently only the trucker and the attendant were privy to the phone call the killer placed to Kelly.

2) Who was the attendant at the gas station, and how old was he?
- His name was Lee Abbott. I have no idea how old he was, but I remember seeing him on TV back in the early 1980s, and I'm guessing he was in his late 40s or early 50s then.

3) What gas station was the call made from?
- It was a Shell service station several kilometers outside of Standard. I believe it was by the Trans-Canada Highway, although I noticed Chris says it is no longer there.

4) Can you post a map of Chin Lake with the site marked where the body was disposed of?
- I posted a hyperlink of Chin Lake, but I have no more map-related information than that.

5) How did police know the killer recognized Kelly?
- I don't know. It was probably speculation on their part.

6) What's the address where Kelly lived in Standard?
- I don't know. In the White Pages, I don't think you'll even find Standard. I once came across a really old phone book, from the late 1960s, and Standard residents were listed there, but I don't think they are anymore. Wonder if the Kelly Cook case had something to do with it? However, I did see a TV news report around 1990 where reporters went to interview Kelly's parents at their home in Standard. I recall it was on a cul-de-sac, and as you turned into the cul-de-sac, the house was on your right. It was a bungalow, and I remember that it was not elevated per se (i.e., no stairs leading up to the front door - instead, you opened the front door and you're right on the walkway). Standard's very small, so I don't think it'd be too tough to find it.

7) Aaron, you could solve this case, couldn't you?
- Sorry, but I don't think so. If the police haven't managed to, I don't think I'll have much better luck.

8) Re: the picture I posted, is that the bridge that crosses Chin Lake?
- I think so, but I'm not sure.

9) Did police ever have a suspect in this case?
- Well, I recall reading around 1989 that a guy arrested in the States might be Kelly's killer, but nothing came of that. That's the only time I recall police mentioning that they had suspicions about a particular man. In that case, he was already arrested when the police made public their thoughts on him. I don't think the police would comment on suspecting someone if that person was still walking the streets. Take Karla Homolka, for example. The fact she was involved in sadistic sex crimes only came out after she was formally arrested, even though the police knew of the crimes she'd committed for several months beforehand. I think the police would get in trouble if they publicized their suspicions about identifiable individuals with no proof to back them up, but once arrested, that seems to be a different story.

10) Did Kelly's killer ever strike again?
- He may have, but I don't recall news reports mentioning any connections to any other homicide cases.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 17, 2009, 05:18:45 PM
Thanks for the answers. You have been so helpful. This case is one in which a few of us have been very concerned with.

I guess that blows my thoery. There was a gas station at highway 561 and highway 1 at some point but it is gone too. It does seem this person was from somewhere south of town.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 20, 2009, 11:33:11 PM
Some time ago in this thread a poster indicated that there was a possible suspect in this murder, a man who resided in or near the town of Warner Alberta. Warner is near Chin Lake where Kelly's remains were discovered in June 1981. It was indicated that this person was murdered many years ago but for some reason following his death, some residents of the area suspected that he may have been involved in Kelly's murder. Newspaper archives were searched and some further information on this person was obtained. Attached is a photograph that was in the newspaper printed along side his obituary. It is not known when this photograph was taken but the man died in 1991. Whatever it was that was discovered after his death, something made people in the area suspect him.

Perhaps something found in his personal belongings or writings pointed to his involvement in the crime?

Was he ever an official person of interest in this case?

Was this lead ever investigated by the RCMP?

Viewing the original RCMP composite sketch along side the photo in a side by side comparison begs the questions, could this be the long sought after killer of Kelly Cook?

What does everyone else think?

(click on images to enlarge)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: HaveThoughtsWillTravel on January 21, 2009, 03:00:38 AM
I think if you are looking for a serial kiler in this case and linking victims, you would have to find the the photo of the figure skater that was in the paper. He saw the photo and persued that girl, being very aggressive with the school and finding her by other means. He just settled for Kelly, because the other girl refered her and maybe possibly her thought he could reach her through Kelly.

If you can find victims that fit the other girl's body type and discription, you will likely link the cases.

I may have missed it in here but, what town was the high school in? I think this guy would have had to know the whole are well. If the other girl just attended the same high school and was her friend, it does not mean she was from the same small town. They all seem pretty small although I know there were a lot of the grades 1-12 schools out there then.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 21, 2009, 08:34:33 AM
haunted; you really seem to be on the right track here....however, in comparing the actual photo with the comp. drawing of suspect:
-the hairline seems the same.
-eyeglass shape and eye placement close enough.
-placement of the nose, mouth, and chin seem the same.
-the live photo shows a sharp nose  with a narrow bridge while the comp. shows a blunter nose with a wide bridge.
-the live phote shows a weaker chin and jawline while the comp. shows a more formidable chin and jawline.
-the live photo shows somewhat thin lips while the comp. shows full lips.

Aside from that, the comp. photo could be off on the lower face description because those who would have given a description had so little contact with the suspect.
However, at-a-glance observation makes this guy a real possible for Kelly's death.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: HaveThoughtsWillTravel on January 21, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
haunted; you really seem to be on the right track here....however, in comparing the actual photo with the comp. drawing of suspect:
-the hairline seems the same.
-eyeglass shape and eye placement close enough.
-placement of the nose, mouth, and chin seem the same.
-the live photo shows a sharp nose  with a narrow bridge while the comp. shows a blunter nose with a wide bridge.
-the live phote shows a weaker chin and jawline while the comp. shows a more formidable chin and jawline.
-the live photo shows somewhat thin lips while the comp. shows full lips.

Aside from that, the comp. photo could be off on the lower face description because those who would have given a description had so little contact with the suspect.
However, at-a-glance observation makes this guy a real possible for Kelly's death.

I agree that this may be him, but did he kill again after or before Kelly? What girl's went missing that matched the discription of the figur skater in the photo? Also I was thinking that if the girl in the photo was the prime and lone prey - did he try and force Kelly to contact her by phone - and she called the operater instead, and got out a scream.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 21, 2009, 09:41:27 AM
really good point...he may have wanted the skater enough to go through all that trouble to get Kelly....thinking he could make her lure the skater.  Stranger things have happened with obsessive killers...it's not too far fetched...and it would make his original intent (the skater) ..very close and personal (as if he had a deep hate for that type of girl)- whether it be that she was a skater or how she looked and what she was about - maybe someone who hurt him bad....anything is possible.  The more we find out about a particular incident, the more we find out about the murderer/s.  It seems the police could have done a lot more to find out about that skater....maybe it is actually (in theory) the skater's killer they should have been looking for.  It seems to me if I go back to the earlier part of this thread, someone else felt very strongly in the same direction.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 21, 2009, 06:25:23 PM
That fellow in the picture may or may not be Kelly's killer, but there's no reason the composite sketch couldn't have been made of him. His face may have filled out with age, which is not uncommon, he may have put on some weight, and so forth. One fellow I talked to told me his very square jaw when he was younger was no longer so chiseled as he aged.

Not to mention eyewitness accounts, even under hypnosis, are not necessarily reliable. In the case of Robert Baltovich, who was charged with murdering his girlfriend Elizabeth Bain, he was convicted partly on the basis of an 'eyewitness' who underwent hypnosis to aid her in creating a composite sketch. Turns out Baltovich had never even been in that area the night the witness supposedly saw him. Baltovich got acquitted last year because the Crown was no longer able to present their 'eyewitness under hypnosis' evidence.

So the guy who phoned Kelly on the morning of April 22, 1981, may indeed have been that fellow whose picture was posted on this site. It's a close enough resemblance that it could be him. On the other hand, it might not be him. I'd be curious to know what caused Warner townspeople to speculate on this man's possible involvement in the Kelly Cook murder. And I'm sure the police know of this man, but they obviously don't have any evidence to point the finger at him and close the case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: HaveThoughtsWillTravel on January 21, 2009, 11:19:56 PM
Wow, I just discovered a simular abduction happened 3 weeks earlier in Olds ALberta. 15 year old girl, but he took her right off the street and drove to Edmonton with her before being arrested:
http://www.ourfutureourpast.ca/newspapr/np_page2.asp?code=nn1p0236.jpg

I hate to say it Chris, but those were a pretty style of glasses at the time. At first glance even the lady in the photo from the Olds case looked like the guy from Warner. Thinking back I can remember that my mother even had a set of frames similar to those.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
That is very close! Wow. And to think that Chin lakes is just up the highway from Warner too.

Yes, I would like to know why some people in Warner think that he was involved. I'm heading to Warner in mid march and will ask around. It is a small place, 400 people maybe?

I agree with AaronP, the photo alone is not enough, but we did hear from an older poster about this guy before we saw his photo, the photo just adds to the theory about the Wrner guy only, but I hope to find out more reasons why.

If it is him, he is dead. so that would end that anyway.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 23, 2009, 04:58:35 PM
I too agree with all the recent posts, the glasses were common in that day, the look, not all that unusual. I doubt this guy would have even come on the radar screen if not for whatever it was that was "apparently" found after his death.... Suspicions of this guys involvent arise not from anything concrete but from something we know nothing about. Recalling that missing person poster about Dunahee, found many years later in a location far far away comes to mind. But in that case, the police did confirm, the news did report, and we the public knew the police were aware and investigating. None of that has happened here as far as we know. I wonder if there is any way of getting confirmation from the police that they are aware of this and have investigated. I would imagine that it would take the involvement of a family member to further this line of questioning? Or?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 23, 2009, 05:59:43 PM
That link HaveThoughts posted (which is a link to a "Chris posting back Aug.12) doesn't work for me....guess maybe too far across the country...I clicked on it and got a heading on top but page just white.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 23, 2009, 09:29:57 PM
Hi Lost, I guess you are a long ways off and by the time they get a newspaper article to go through all those miles of wires, (how ever they do that) it could take a while. I am a little closer and the same thing happens here. But when I am patient, slowly the article emerges, and I mean slowly. If you can't get it, the three US victims were all women in there 60's and seventy's. Way different MO. Not likely the same guy..Try it again, walk away have a cup of tea.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 23, 2009, 09:37:10 PM
Chester K. Bordelon was in custody following that abduction of March 1981 and was not released prior to Kelly's abduction. There is a further article a few weeks later discussing his trial date.  The timing is interesting but this is unrelated. And further, Havethoughts,  the pictures of the people in the Olds newspaper were not printed in regards to the Olds abduction but rather a different article altogether on the front page of that paper.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 23, 2009, 10:56:09 PM
AaronP

Is it possible for you to post a scanned version of the articles that you previously referenced?

Also the witness at the gas station, Lee Abbott. I did some looking around and found a reference to someone by that name who died and reportedly lived in or near Calgary in November 1994 and was 55 at the time of his death. Do you know if that would be the same Lee Abbott or if in fact he is still alive today? 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: HaveThoughtsWillTravel on January 24, 2009, 03:53:52 AM
Chester K. Bordelon was in custody following that abduction of March 1981 and was not released prior to Kelly's abduction. There is a further article a few weeks later discussing his trial date.  The timing is interesting but this is unrelated. And further, Havethoughts,  the pictures of the people in the Olds newspaper were not printed in regards to the Olds abduction but rather a different article altogether on the front page of that paper.

I relised that but when the photo loaded it caught me how similar the features where as it scrolled down. Caught me off guard I guess, remembering that this was a very popular style at the time.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 24, 2009, 02:59:39 PM

Re: the gas station attendant, Lee Abbott, I have no idea who he was. If he did die, I don't know about it. I only know what I read about him in news accounts dating back from 1981 - nothing else.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: solvy on January 26, 2009, 02:53:53 PM
I think we have to go back to the beginning for answers-  Kelly was not the intended victim.  Why was she chosen, was she just unlucky?  Its been said that an article was published in a local paper with the skaters picture. We need to see this article.

Aaron p   You have said that you have alot of old papers and articles on this case. Could you post this article and picture if you have it?  I'm sure it would be helpful to learn a bit more about the skater.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on January 27, 2009, 11:23:49 PM
Hello again everyone, I have been "away" for a bit... but have caught up on this thread tonight.

I think we have to go back to the beginning for answers-  Kelly was not the intended victim.  Why was she chosen, was she just unlucky?  Its been said that an article was published in a local paper with the skaters picture. We need to see this article.

Aaron p   You have said that you have alot of old papers and articles on this case. Could you post this article and picture if you have it?  I'm sure it would be helpful to learn a bit more about the skater.


I hope this doesnt' come off sounding rude. But back in the '80s it was not uncommon for small town newspapers to report on local skating activities, like ice carnivals or competitions. It really was the only thing for girls to do... all the boys were in hockey.

Many of us got our picture in the paper. I am pretty sure both Kelly's picture and the girl you are wondering about had their pictures in the paper at some point that winter.

I was a member of the skate club in a neighbouring town and was in the same grade as the girl you referring to.  I have sent her a link to this thread, but I doubt she will respond.

I don't think seeing her picture from back then will add anything of value. IMO the culprit simply used the reference to the paper as a way to strike up a conversation to make contact with any girl.

On other fronts:

I have contacted a couple of my media (TV & film) contacts to somehow get this back in the public spotlight, but no luck yet.  Though I have recently made a new contact (in a different field) and I might run it past him

Chris, if you are still planning a return visit, I am very interested in going with you.  I know I can fill in some blanks for you, that I am simply not comfortalbe posting on a public website.

Lastly, I heard from Kelly's sister who extends a thank-you to everyone posting in this thread she is pleased that Kelly has not been forgotten.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 28, 2009, 01:48:49 AM
Hopefully someone will post that article at somepoint, (if its still available) I had a thought that it might have been removed from the archives given all the trouble it has apparently caused. The girl that was originally targeted must have felt terrible and I wouldn't blame her for not wanting her picture posted or to post on here her self.

re:
Quote
Many of us got our picture in the paper. I am pretty sure both Kelly's picture and the girl you are wondering about had their pictures in the paper at some point that winter.

re:
Quote
I don't think seeing her picture from back then will add anything of value. IMO the culprit simply used the reference to the paper as a way to strike up a conversation to make contact with any girl.

Nonetheless for whatever reason, Kelly's killer first picked this other girl out from everyone else he had to chose from.  WHY her, a flip of a coin?? Not likely ..

Maybe he had a fetish for long blond hair or something in particular? Maybe there were other victims elsewhere all with the same look, same hair, or something??  What was it that triggered him on the girl in question? Maybe her photo shouldn't be shown publicly but there should be a better description. What was her most noticeable feature, what would make her stand out in the crowd from all the rest of the girls who apparently showed up in the paper that winter?



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 29, 2009, 10:06:26 PM
From all the information posted it seems clear that the figure skater was the first intended target. It seems with some of the sk's that we have had information on, there is a certain MO, where the victims share certain physical characteristics in common. A previous post on this thread inquired if anyone had the article of the figure skater that was supposedly viewed by the murderer and may have been the catalyst to this whole crime. So far no one has posted that article. Can anyone out there provide a verbal description of the figure skater's physical characteristics at the time so the first intended victim could be compared to other victims of other crimes to see if there are any parallels?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 30, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
I have to agree with you haunted.  I know it's in good taste to not call undue attention to the "possible target" the figure skater.  But since, she passed the job on to Kelly that day (with good intentions, I trust) and Kelly was murdered by this referral; would it invade her privacy that much to show her picture from that time.  I mean it's not as though folks are going to walk up to her on the street and say; "oh, you're that figure skater that this freak really wanted".  For goodness sake, I don't think she would look the same today; and it was fact back when it happened - the girl was contacted first.  She should be the one trying to find that killer - more than anybody else.  If I was the one who referred an eventual murderer to someone else --that may have been meant to be me -- even if I meant well giving the girl the shift; I would spend the rest of my life turning over every rock in the country until I found that piece of slime who would have killed me (but for the grace of God). 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 03, 2009, 01:59:52 AM
Quote
Chris, if you are still planning a return visit, I am very interested in going with you.  I know I can fill in some blanks for you, that I am simply not comfortalbe posting on a public website.

Lastly, I heard from Kelly's sister who extends a thank-you to everyone posting in this thread she is pleased that Kelly has not been forgotten.
 

Great! I hope to make a trip up there probably in 6 weeks on my way to Calgary. Probably March 11thish because I like to drive home at night with a full or near full moon to avoid collisions with animals.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: mauvelilac on February 03, 2009, 04:45:20 PM
Quote
Probably March 11thish because I like to drive home at night with a full or near full moon to avoid collisions with animals.

Chris: If you want to advoid collisions with animals, go to your nearest dollar store and pick up those radar things and put them on the front of your vehicle, one on each side. I have them on all three of my vehicles, the animals won't come anywhere near you. If you can't find them, e-mail me and I'll be happy to send you a couple of sets.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 04, 2009, 04:22:46 AM
I tried those. But where I live, there are so many critters it don't work. Only solution is to drive slow and be aware. I've never hit anything that way.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 15, 2009, 12:37:16 PM

 
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I have to agree with you haunted.  I know it's in good taste to not call undue attention to the "possible target" the figure skater.  But since, she passed the job on to Kelly that day (with good intentions, I trust) and Kelly was murdered by this referral; would it invade her privacy that much to show her picture from that time.  I mean it's not as though folks are going to walk up to her on the street and say; "oh, you're that figure skater that this freak really wanted".  For goodness sake, I don't think she would look the same today; and it was fact back when it happened - the girl was contacted first.  She should be the one trying to find that killer - more than anybody else.  If I was the one who referred an eventual murderer to someone else --that may have been meant to be me -- even if I meant well giving the girl the shift; I would spend the rest of my life turning over every rock in the country until I found that piece of slime who would have killed me (but for the grace of God). 
Was the skater the daughter of the Principal, one of the teachers, one of the board members or maybe the dauther of one of the Principals relatives or friends.
One point seems clear, and a fair assumption; the Principal was entaining a red flag procedure for some reason - he may very well have been this vigilant on behalf of all students - so to say, you don't give out any information about a student over the phone (except to a parent) ...so there had to be a pretty good reason for that Principal to make it known that a man was trying to reach the figure skater in a manner that was not right. I can't help but add to that, the fact that this call may have gone through a secretary or receptionist first (who may have seen fit to forward the request/caller to the Principal). And since this skating queen is old enough to protect herself now, I think she's a slime ball for not going public with the fact that a man trying to get to her, ended up viciously murdering her younger peer. She should hang her head in shame and leave town for not being woman enough to hunt him down like the animal he is.... and her parents before that were worse scum than her. imo ~lostlinganer
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on February 15, 2009, 02:11:08 PM
I am sure the referral was well intended. I would imagine the figure skater/first intended victim was traumatized and in fear of her life after that day. I doubt that ever leaves regardless of age, afterall this monster has never been caught. Her parents would pull out all stops to protect her. There was no way to know that she wasn't going to become a victim of this guy, if not right then but evetually. He was obviously going to do what he was going to do, no matter what. In my opinion she did what she had to do for self preservation. We also don't have any idea what she and or her family did to cooperate and help. I imagine they did everything they could. At this point and especially in this day and age, everyone is entitled to privacy, at their own discretion. imo.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2009, 04:07:18 PM
Ling, and H, there is one more possibility that would explain the circumstances. WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM. She wouldn't be able to talk even if she wanted to! We don't have enough information to determine that but I believe we have to give her the benefit of the doubt for now unless proven otherwise.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 15, 2009, 06:03:56 PM
She's a grown woman now, to say the least; I find it hard to believe her stalker would still have the same interest.  If he was Kelly's killer, the authorities had more than ample years to find him - therefore, he must be confindent by now that she can't definitely identify him.  If he was Kelly's killer and if, indeed, she was his original victim, and if indeed she gained his wrath to the point she would be in witness protection, then it seems to me, the police would have maybe a voice tape, that would have to be there, if he stalked her futher and she had to be hidden or protected.  If it were a few years after Kelly's death, I would say "fine, that must be the case" , but all these years and no effort by her and her protectors to "flush him out'.  I'm sorry but once again, something is not right here.  Somebody is being protected and Kelly is being denied justice imho.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2009, 06:39:57 PM
All is quite likely true, but there are "legal" issues once this type of a designation is in place that may even prohibit the girl from speaking now, even if she should wish to. I agree though, and would like her to speak, and if she can, hope she still will. But it may not be quite as simple as we would like.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on February 15, 2009, 09:05:21 PM


I am being objective here, and do have to say if the figure skater was the "only" intended victim, the perhaps that is why there is no news on her. She would have had kids by now, and may be fearful.

BUT, the killer went and found another victim, Kelly Cook. This killer has probably killed others of the same age, and body type.

There has to be people who saved the papers from Standard, and have them stashed somewhere. This was a small town, and this type of crime, un heard of.Friends of the families must have clipped out any articles on this slaying.

The Principal would have to protect All his students, and am sure the police told him not to release any photoes of any of the students.

Back when this happened, the average person didn't know there were so many dangerous pedophile freaks around, especially those that killed.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 15, 2009, 10:41:30 PM
Adrian; I think it's time these people took their newspaper clippings and their memories "out of the closets" and "attics" and rounded this killer up.  If the police were protecting this girl and her family (and that's a far fetched "if") and if this guy preyed on this girl"s "type".... who all else, did he kill, which were that type... we'll never know... because if that's the case, it means they sacrificed many to protect one.... who.....being as they already had their guard/s up....would have been protected anyway ....at least in later years.  I still say if this is the case, something "stinks".
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 15, 2009, 10:49:41 PM
Something stinks alright, but it might not be just the girl thats being protected.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on February 18, 2009, 03:15:19 PM


Maybe the figure skater, was the daughter of someone, who had a high standing in the community. The parents would want to protect their daughter, as she would be petrified. Maybe they moved, and it is a bad memory for her, and the family didn't discuss it. It could be possible the girl did not know she was the intended victim. It is all mixed up. Just a thought... ???
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: empathy on February 25, 2009, 04:34:43 PM
This was a horrible event, I lived in Strathmore (town close) at the time and no children were allowed to walk alone or even allowed out at night. We also had to walk in pairs from/to school and were told to write the license plate numbers down if you were ever approached by a stranger. There was even a warning put out at that a suspicious car had been spotted around the schools. (Whether or not that was just hysteria, who knows). I sincerely hope that whomever in responsible (even if he is dead) is identified.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: solvy on February 27, 2009, 12:22:14 AM
Hi Empathy,

Most of us can only try to understand the horror the surrounding communities must have gone thru at the time of Kelly's abduction and death.  I imagine teachers and principals received strict new rules to follow, not only in the immediate time frame but also with regards to security and privacy for their students.  I would think the principal at Standard school must have felt terrible about what happened.  Someone else here has commented that at that time, there was no councilling offered to victims, like is done today after something so traumatic happens.  Maybe the school used there own councillers, and I'm sure the clergy was used as well.

Just so sad, a young life gone and no one knows why or who dun it!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 27, 2009, 03:29:59 AM
I can imagine that must have been horible time to be a young teen girl in those days. Esepcaily since no one was ever arrested.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: save_elephants on March 01, 2009, 03:24:56 PM
Hello!
I'm new to this site. I find this site is very well done with a lot of information. Thanks so everyone who posts!

I was a baby when Kelly Cook's body was found. I have been in Calgary my whole life and think about this case often. Again I was too young to remember it being on the news but my mother had told my sister and I all about this case when we were older. She put the fear of death into us but it worked. We never once considered getting into a car with a stranger or went out alone at night. I actually remember when I was really young saying "what if Kelly Cook's killer gets us" when we were out and shouldn't be. I remember having friends of friends calling us looking for sitters but we would never accept the job due to fear.
My heart goes out to Kelly and her family and I hope with people still talking about this case and  keeping Kelly's memory alive that one day justice will be served.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on March 01, 2009, 03:46:23 PM
Welcome to the board Save,

This is exactly the kind of case that once you heard of it, you would never forget it. The fact that this happened in a quiet small town that would have had next to no crime rate, and the boldness of the crime combined with targetting a completely innocent child makes it horrifying. It certainly would have invoked fear among parents and children. 

Like you, I hope the same thing, that by keeping her memory alive and the details of her case out there, it will one day be solved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 03, 2009, 05:15:51 AM
Welcome,

This is a case many of us are still concerned with. I am sure it must have been scary.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Adrian on March 06, 2009, 09:08:54 PM


I still wonder if the killer of Kelly Cook, is alive or dead. Is he still walking around? Or is he locked up somewhere for something else. It would be good to see all traits, and what he did, etc.. put in a computer. Like an updated profile of the type of person who did this crime, linked to other possible same type killers.

It would be good if it was also checked in the States, for possible matches.I wonder if any ped killers in jail, know who did this? I wonder if any of them tried to get time off by speaking about him to the police. So much time has gone by.

RIP Kelly ((((((hugs))))) to all friends and family. May peace surround you, and this be solved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 22, 2009, 10:14:28 AM

Does anybody know the name of the man in Warner who is alleged to be Kelly Cook's killer? What was his occupation in 1981? Why was he murdered in 1991? Did he travel much as a matter of course? Why do Warner townspeople suspect him? And so forth?

And re: the killer's intended victim, the 17-year old girl who was the first to receive a call from 'Bill Christensen' and referred him to Kelly instead, after having read some earlier posts, I would implore people to give the woman a break. What happened to Kelly is definitely not her fault, and she has no obligation to spend her entire life trying to solve this case. Her responsibility was to assist the police with their investigation as best as possible, which I'm sure she did. Then she went on to live the rest of her life, and that's to be expected. I hope she's doing well today.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 23, 2009, 03:02:43 AM
Hi Aaron,

Send haunted a PM, she would know that:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=profile;u=536

I have a question. Do you happen to know the address of the residence the Cooks lived at then? If so, can you send it to me via PM.

Thanks
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 03, 2009, 10:30:19 PM
For many of the same reasons the figure skater has not been named, I don't feel comfortable in posting the name of the man from Warner here. This was information sent in by one person. To date this is a totally unconfirmed suspicion. This man was killed by a jealous husband a decade after Kelly’s murder. The man leaves children behind. At no time between the time of Kelly's murder and when this man was killed, were we able to find any suspicion of his involvement in any other murders.

Apparently, a rumour began circulating after his murder claiming that something was found at his residence linking him to Kelly’s murder. He lived in the area near where Kelly’s body was found at the time. He was apparently working for an irrigation business. He may have travelled the area to some degree.

There are more than just a few people, including Chris, who have knowledge of this man's name. Those who have read the archived news articles have not found anything substantial to base any real suspicion or conclusions upon.

So unless you have some special connections or resources available to you with which to confirm the story beyond that which is available to most of us, I see no reason to just post the man's name for curiosity sake. The Lethbridge Herald news archives contain the story of the double homicide in which this man was a victim. If there is anything to the rumour that something was found at the residence implicating this man in Kelly’s murder, the police would be in possession of the evidence and could easily confirm or disspell the rumor, and may have already done so.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 04, 2009, 01:59:58 AM
Yes good idea haunted. This person does fit the geo profile, and would have to drive past the spot the body was dumped to get home, but I agree it is not a good idea to post his name.

I may be in Standard this week, I am going to try and find her place again and maybe even drive the route to Warner if I have time.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on April 12, 2009, 02:07:43 AM
I was born and raised in Standard and have checked in on this thread multiple times through out the last year so I figured i'd ought to post.

I see there was some talk about this gas station. Chris you are right there was a gas station in between Hussar and Standard but that was not the one. The one that this killer was at when he allegedly placed the call to Kelly was several miles outside of Standard at the corner of the Trans Canada and the 561. It was owned by Lee Abbott and unfortunately burned down in the early 90s.

Now about the motive of crossing through Hussar where a phone call might have been placed by Kelly. Standard is on highway 840. Now the only way out of town south you come to a stop at the intersection of the 561. You can't go straight you can either turn right heading west or left heading east (towards hussar). Both routes will take you to the trans canada highway.

I have two theories about why Hussar was chosen. The first was that this killer was way too smart to head back west and drive past the gas station. Just how the gas station was situated you could see what vehicle was coming easily. It is a very well lit corner and could have provided Kelly with an easy escape.

The second one is that it's easier to head east and hook onto the Trans Canada that way because there is a shorter route going south that way. (assuming the killer is from the south)

Also there is the matter of the time in which Kelly was picked up at her home to when the 911 call was placed. Standard is not as "flat" as you would think when you get going out of town. In between Standard and Hussar there is a lot of no mans land owned by hutterites in which no farms and no civilation is around. When you get going about a mile north east of town there are the Chimney Hills. Which going on one of those backroads could have taken them right into Hussar. There is no way he stopped for gas because at that time everything would have been completely closed down.

Christensen is a VERY common name back around there, like many of you said all what he would have to do would be to flip open the Standard phone book and see this. Now I have also seen mentions that this killer could have been someone from Hussar. I have my doubts of this as Standard and Hussar are EXTREMELY close communities (not just in relivence to their locations). Everyone knows everyone from both locations. If the killer was someone from Hussar he would have been instantly recognized without a doubt.

Now the rumour around Standard has always been that the RCMP know who it is, and that this person hailed from around the Taber area but they never had enough evidence to convict him of this. Nobody local from my understanding was ever a POS in this case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 12, 2009, 02:54:10 PM
Thanks Dub,

I'd agree, if that was a local, someone would have recognixzed him. Taber eh? Do you know if there was a specific suspect? ever hear of someone in Warner?

Thanks for the info on the gas station. I see what you mean. It would make sense. So it does seem whoever did this, definetly came from the south.

I have sort of theororized that perhaps Kelly escaped somewhere between Standard and Hussar, there is an abandoned village halfway between called Chancellor and I wonder if the predator used a place like that to attempt an attack and she ran to Hussar?

It is amazing that 28 years later, this case is not solved. But with advances in Tech, who knows... maybe one day.

p.s. Did anyone have an idea as to the age of the person at the time who did this?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on April 12, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
Well from what I understood was that it was someone from the Taber area which would make sense with the Warner rumour as I think they are in close proximity. I also heard this person they think did it often traveled around the area with something to do with the farming industry in some form. This is all rumours but it has been going around Standard for many years.

Sure would be nice to have this case solved though so everyone can get closure on it. Even years after it's happened many people are still uneasy about it especially those who have young kids who babysit. I know when I was younger my parents made sure I only babysat for friends of theirs.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 12, 2009, 03:31:13 PM
Wow, so it sounds like they had a specific person in mind. That is interesting. Yes we thought about a travelling person for sure, it makes sense as Standard and Hussar are not just towns someone happens to drive thru and plan something. And the place the body was dumped, that is also not a place just anyone comes across, you know that place.

What bothers me, is that I am sure someone out there knows something but there is this idea too many people have that it is none of there business so they do not say anything. Someone from this guys home town must know something and I hope one day they come out and talk ot the police.

I've been to Standard and it is such a nice place. Too bad this has been hanging over there head for so long.

p.s. Do you by chance know what street Kelly lived on?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on April 12, 2009, 03:40:10 PM
Yes it does sound like they had a specific person in mind but they just never had the evidence to charge and convict this guy.

Yes Standard is a great place to live and it just goes to show that things like this can happen in places like that, although i'm sure everyone around town still leaves their doors unlocked haha I know we always did.

The Cook's live in a culdesac on the east part of town i'm not sure what the street name is.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2009, 03:45:09 PM
Dub; what is "culdesac" ?
Nice to see you here, by the way!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on April 12, 2009, 03:48:22 PM
It's just a street with no end. You drive into it and have to turn around to get back out, kind of like a dead end street - only it's shaped in a U. I think it's the only culdesac in town.

And Chris, I agree someone out there has to know something and I think a lot of these cold cases should be brought back up because maybe now someone will come forward with a big lead.

And your right about where the body was dumped. Chin Lakes it not a random place where you just stumble across you have to KNOW that area.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 12, 2009, 04:35:11 PM
Well you know what? Because the RCMP still promote this case, that seems to me they:

1 - Believe it is solveable
2 - There POI is still alive

So yes, if someone does have even a tiny bit of info the police might use, then this case can be solved. It will be a great day when that happens.

p.s. That culdesac.... is it the one that is just south of the school? Thanks.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on April 13, 2009, 09:25:49 PM
no it's NE of the school
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2009, 08:34:23 AM

Wow, has it really been 28 years, as of today, since this horrific crime was committed? It's sad that in all this time, the killer (alive or dead) has never been officially identified, thus providing no real sense of closure for Kelly's family. That man from Warner who was murdered himself in 1991, and who is alleged (but not proven) to be Kelly's killer, obviously left no substantive clues and/or confessions behind that could enable police to publicly point the finger at him and close the books on this case.

Just as the police can't arrest someone or conduct a search without demonstrable evidence, so too can the police not point the finger at a dead man and publicly say, "We believe that he did it!" if they have no conclusive proof. Just think of the potential lawsuits, accusations of slander, etc., that could arise if the police publicly blamed someone for Kelly's murder based on nothing more than circumstancial evidence and/or hearsay.

We can still hope that this case will be solved. At any rate, I hope Kelly is at peace in Heaven.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: waabzy on April 22, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
28 years is such a very long time for Kelly's family and loved ones to have no answers.

Here's to hoping that whomever is responsiblefor her murder will today, on her anniversary,  brag to someone about how he got away with murder.  And that that person will go to police.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 22, 2009, 09:28:20 AM

I will always hold onto hope that this case will one day be solved. After all the case of Alexandra Wiwcharuk is showing promising signs of being solved and Alexandra was murdered in 1962. There is a rather large quantity of information in this case that might, one day, point in the right direction.

Waazby I also think the killer (whether dead or alive) probably told someone something. Someone out there who knows something may one day come forward and that could just be enough.  

Aaron, I also hope that Kelly is at peace in heaven. Thank you for reminding us all that this is the anniversary date.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2009, 11:11:16 AM

From her tombstone:

Kelly Jane Evelyn Cook
1965-1981
A Beautiful Memory Lingers


Rest in peace, Kelly Cook. So many of us would like to see closure to your case.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 22, 2009, 12:42:19 PM
"A Beautiful Memory Lingers".........that is a lovely inscription.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 22, 2009, 01:13:37 PM
RIP Kelly.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2009, 02:13:57 PM
The following is a true story and the reason for my own interest in Kelly Cook's murder. Many people have speculated that a guy as brazen as this killer would have bragged to someone. People have been looking for someone who may have heard a confession from this killer for a long time. Well I heard one and I doubt I am the only one.

THE CONFESSION

To Whom It May Concern:

I lived in Kelowna B.C back in the late eighties / early nineties. I knew quite a few people then and frequently spent time with many different people over the course of an evening. It was on one of those evenings, when I was introduced to and spent a few hours in the company of Terry Arnold.

An acquaintance of mine had been drinking with him for a few hours at a local hotel before I came by a little later on. They weren’t drunk but were speaking freely with each other by then. I believe they had only known each other for a short time from drinking together the night before as far as I know..I had been curious about what the two of them had been discussing. They seemed an unusual or unlikely mix to be getting along. Arnold had tattooed fingers which on each hand alone made no sense, but when intertwined spelled something like wanna fuck. The guy I knew was a fairly straight sort of social drinker.

I sat with them for the next couple of hours until things took a strange turn. The person we were sitting with, a stranger in our circles began telling some pretty strange tales. At first we put it down to drunk talk but even for that it was weird..

It began about the time when Arnold was telling us and bragging about his latest sexual conquests, in his words, a mother and daughter team out in Calgary. He said that he had since moved out here to BC and was writing for a small newspaper near Penticton. We got talking about the stories he was writing, about all types of horrific crimes and that the paper was publishing them all. He said that most were just copied from other stuff he read. I began asking him questions about how to get a story that I was interested in published. Once he got talking about that and all the crime and murder stories along with the beer, that seemed to trigger some kind of change and got him babbling away in a bragging sort of way about his conquests. At one point he used the phrase, if you fuck with the best, you die like the rest. Well that doesn’t sit well with a couple of guys your drinking with and we got on his case. What do you mean, die like the rest, you threatening us, you saying you killed people before? Who? Bullshit, your all talk etc..

Arnold then ends up defending himself by reciting names, most of which I had never heard, one a French sounding name that sounded like the name of a girl I once knew, Denise Lafrieniere..I made him repeat that name and that's why I recall her in particular. He goes on with other names that I never heard of nor recall. Then he starts telling us about one he called Kelly, I didn’t recall what he said her last name was until reading of a Kelly Cook many years later, I believe that was it. He looked at us like we should know of her, like this was a well known much publicized murder case.. He also made mention of someone convicted of a murder that he had done but then goes on to say but the guy got off in a retrial and is going to get paid millions. Without even joking, he say’s what a lucky guy and that he, Arnold, should be getting paid half of that money..

He started going into a few details about Kelly, saying that she was one of the more well known ones. He talked of how he got away with murdering Kelly, bragging like he was trying to show us how smart he was. I have to say that I was listening with extreme scepticism by now and viewed him as almost a nut case, otherwise I would have tried to pay more attention.

He made mention of a car that he used that would not ever be traced back to him. It was his bosses or someone like that and that he was just delivering it or picking it up for someone? I believe he took the bus one way..to or from wherever he had been living.

At some point Arnold claimed it was someone else who first had the interest in the skater and that he Arnold had merely just volunteered to get her for the other. When that failed, he did what he did to the girl the skater recommended. I believe that he claimed to have strangled her.

He talked about getting Kelly’s body into water somehow, I believe wading out using a small floating skiff or floating warf/ dock or something like that. I believe that’s where he said the got he ropes and cinder blocks that he used to tie her down, right from the area where he disposed of Kelly. Previously they were used as anchors for something. I believe he said he just wrapped or crossed the ropes over top of her in a cross pattern with the weights on the ends.

He spoke about people showing up early in the morning right after he had done that, dog walkers or fisherman or hikers? At one point he said that he walked past someone much older who saw him as he was returning to his vehicle soaking wet. I believe he said he was wearing a jean jacket that just appeared to be a darker blue when wet and he bluffed it and acted casual as he walked past the person..

He said that someone else knew about this also but that if they tried to talk, he had left something (an item) there at his place to make it look like the other had done it. Behind the fridge or something like that, sort of an insurance policy. I would have thought this person would be the owner of the vehicle that he used to pick up Kelly. Unsure though..

He said that the police had focused on someone else in or around the vicinity of the crime for some reason, I believe he said the other suspect had committed suicide or something like that which had diverted any attention or investigation away from anyone else.

Eventually we called bull, I BELIEVE HE CLAIMED TO HAVE KILLED EIGHT PEOPLE by this point in the conversation. I recall him taking a fair bit of time to come up with this number as if he were counting them in his mind, he did not just come out with the number off the top of his head. Then we got on him that even if it were true, they were all little girls, what kind of man does that make you. Fuck with the best?? Those are all little girls!! We were almost laughing at him by then and he bristled with a real hatred in his eyes towards us.

He said that he was travelling with a gun in his vehicle LIKE TRYING TO PROVE THAT HE WAS A DANGEROUS GUY. My acquaintance went out with Arnold as he left and asked to see it. He reported that Arnold had a shotgun behind the seat in his truck. The vehicle was described as a small mini truck, a white Ford Ranger or similar with a canopy i believe. Afterwards we both wondered what the heck he was all about. Nut case I thought at the time but I watched my back closely for the next week or so anyway.

I have wracked my brain for as many details as I can recall about this for a long time. This is it. Whether it is enough to do anything with or to prove anything, I don't know.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2009, 02:15:57 PM
For what it's worth, news reports many years later showed that Arnold was the prime suspect in two of the other cases he confessed to during this conversation. Kelly Cook is the only one he spoke of not yet associated with Arnold's decades long murder spree. How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.

Calgary Murder Case Closed In Wake Of Suspect's Suicide
Mar, 29 2005 - 4:00 PM

Police are confident a man who committed suicide in victoria was the killer of a Calgary woman in 1987.
Homocide Staff Sergeant Barry Cochran says police have been confident since 1997 that Terry Arnold killed Denise Lapierre.   
But police lacked that last bit of evidence to put the case over the top and result in a conviction in court.
"We only have one opportunity to charge somebody in relation to any serious crime. We like to be able to have all the information put forward to support our charge. Certainly don't want to go in their with a weak case, cause it won't last through the judicial process."
Cochran says police always believed one day they would arrest, charge and prosecute Terry Arnold for the murder of 17-year-old Denise Lapierre.
Arnold left a suicide note - but Victoria, B.C. police say he did not confess anything.
Detective Clark Russell says the 42-year-old Arnold has been identified by fingerprints, after his body was found in a Victoria apartment.
He died of an apparent drug overdose, leaving a three page suicide note that did not include a confession.
However the note did say the media had been harassing him.
The detective says Arnold was facing a trial on child pornography charges in June, and was arrested in February for breaching his bail conditions.
At that time his picture and name were released by Victoria police.
Arnold, who is a convicted sex offender, was the prime suspect in the 1981 murder of Barbara Stoppel.
Thomas Sophonow, who was originally found guilty in Stoppel's murder, had said he hoped Arnold would have been brought to trial for the murder.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 22, 2009, 02:46:46 PM
glad you finally blurted that out D - it would be great if the guy/s with you that night would do the same thing.  They should realize that, at the time, it just all seemed like a "wanna-be" villain had too much to drink ....and he would probably forget all his foolish talk next day.  Way back then, people never took this type serious - probably because it was considered anybody who could pull off that many murders and get away with it, is too smart to brag about it after the fact.  I still think you should try to find out if that old drinking comrad/s from that night, is still are around - even if you can remember and connect with one other person from those two nights at that tavern or club  - Kelly's family deserve to know the truth.
If Arnold did do it, I hope he suffered the wrath of God something terrible....as I'm sure he did for the other murders.  No hell would suffice for this creep and his kind!  Rest in peace beautiful innocent Kelly - may your spirit protect the innocent you left behind.  By the way D, the other figure skater was Arnold's type - appearance wise....very much like Barbara Stoppel!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2009, 02:57:33 PM
Calgary Murder Case Closed In Wake Of Suspect's Suicide
Mar, 29 2005 - 4:00 PM

Police are confident a man who committed suicide in victoria was the killer of a Calgary woman in 1987.
Homocide Staff Sergeant Barry Cochran says police have been confident since 1997 that Terry Arnold killed Denise Lapierre.   
Arnold left a suicide note - but Victoria, B.C. police say he did not confess anything.
Detective Clark Russell says the 42-year-old Arnold has been identified by fingerprints, after his body was found in a Victoria apartment.


_____________________________________________________________________

Okay, let's do some math. Arnold's suicide was reported in March 2005, and he was 42 years old at the time of his death. Let's assume he turned 42 in 2004. That would mean he was born in 1962, which would make him 3 years older than Kelly Cook and only 18 years old at the time of her abduction and murder. That doesn't square with the composite profile of the suspect, who was described as being anywhere from his 30s to mid 40s.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2009, 03:01:01 PM
Aaron: I assume you meant three years older than Kelly.

Quote
How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.]


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2009, 03:13:42 PM

Re: the infamous Mr. Arnold, if he was indeed 18 or 19 years old back in April 1981, then I find it hard to believe he'd have the maturity or ability to carry out such a crime. Once Kelly got in the car and found herself next to a guy in his late teens, she'd have had serious doubts about this 'babysitting job' right off the bat. The police composite drawing of the suspect was based on interviews, hypnosis, and so forth, and not once do I recall the police describing the suspect as being younger than his 30s. I doubt the police would have kept saying this had they not been sure. And very few late teens dudes could carry out such a crime without getting caught, as I doubt they'd have the maturity and wisdom necessary to do so.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2009, 03:18:55 PM
I guess Barb Stoppel's family could say the same thing too. I said what I heard, I knew it would be hard to believe and I could have just shut up about it forever due to that. You are all free to make of it what you will.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2009, 03:29:55 PM

I believe you when you report you heard Mr. Arnold say those things about his supposed involvement in Kelly's murder. But some criminals like to brag about crimes they didn't commit, just to make themselves feel/look 'big'. The wretched Mr. Clifford Olson has bragged about committing many more murders than he's been convicted of, but he wasn't prosecuted because the police recognized that he was just shooting off his mouth. Some low-life types want to be recognized for their misdeeds rather than their accomplishments, sad to say.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2009, 03:44:12 PM
Agree Aaron but in at least two of the other murders that he bragged of, he is listed by the Police as the prime suspect. So to just discount him for another that he admitted the same to because it just seems unlikely is maybe premature and improper.

Quote
How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.

Was not the person who went into the funeral home demanding to see Kelly's body, described as being in his late teens early twenties??

Arnold and suspects composite:
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: me on April 23, 2009, 08:36:43 AM
D1 - I'm glad you shared this story with us.

Can you remember your initial gut feeling when the guy was talking to you?  I know that it was awhile ago, but what was your gut telling you?

Is there any way that you could find the other fellow who was with you at the time, the one who went to see the shotgun in his truck?

I think that you should send this letter to the RCMP.  But also, do what I've seen Lost recommend so many times on this site:  make copies, submit one to your lawyer, and make sure at least two people know what you've done, preferably two people you can trust who won't know that the other person also knows.

In other words, cover your back.

There was mention earlier in this thread of this Arnold being a snitch for the RCMP.

It is possible, that he got his knowledge about the case through RCMP contacts and was bragging, just as Aaron P suggested.

Or, he could be the killer.

Either way, this is obviously preying on your mind.  Deal with it to the best of your ability, then let it go.  We are only called to do our part, not to force things to a conclusion.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2009, 11:21:57 AM
I have no way of knowing whether this guy was telling the truth or not. That would require coroberating evidence of some sort. I can only say that this was a totally bizarre conversation and the alarm bells were going off in my mind like crazy. I have never sat beside anyone telling stories like this. He was deliberate when recalling details of the crimes and how many victims, like he was counting them in his memory, not just making up a number.

I see now that Arnold really is widely regarded as a serial killer. I don't have any reason to doubt what he said. He spoke of the other two cases in which the police are acknowledging him as the prime suspect in the same way and time as he did Kelly. Its not like this was an ongoing conversation or interogation where he would run out of real victims to brag about and had to make up some more. It occured over a fairly short period of time. He spent as much time on Kelly as Barb Stoppel and the huge case of the false conviction against Thomas Sophonow. He had enough "real bragging material' without including or making up details about Kelly IMO.

As far as the other person present, I have not seen him since way back near that time. He was just a casual acquaintance. The only chance of him coming forward is if he goes looking and finds the same sort of information that I have and wishes to respond. I have no way of finding him.

I tried hard to recount as much detail as I could, obviously I can't prove any of this. If there is something in the detail that links to something else the police have or know, thats up to them to deal with.

I looked at the details Kelly's murder long enough to know:

Quote
How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.

and I was told that the description of the person who went into the funeral home was that of a younger male than the earlier poi.

This is the exact point that I believe should be reinvestigated. If the age of the poi is lowered, we know that Arnold was living in the vicinity of Calgary just before this murder and we know he was in Winnipeg when Barb Stoppel was murdered, and he can be followed from one murder to another ever since.

Maybe Kelly was the first?? Maybe Arnold could have been stopped right then and there and saved a lot of grief for a lot of people if not for the age discrepancy.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Swifter on April 23, 2009, 02:12:10 PM
hi all!

It is with great interest that I have just spent the last 2 hours reading and rereading this entire thread. I'll explain why...

When I was almost 15 years old I moved to the Standard area. That was 2 months after Kelly's body was found. I not only lived near-by Standard for a few years I also stayed associated with the area up until 5-6 years ago. I have played countless hockey games in both Standard and Hussar (the only place I know that had an indoor arena that had "natural" ice. They used air conditioning to keep the ice frozen instead of the usual cooling tubes located in the concrete below the ice. Heaven help the visiting goalie as the constant supply of cold air was pumped out directly above the visitors net!)  as well I coached the Standard Midget hockey team approx. 10 years ago. While I didn't know Kelly directly I knew/know a number of people from both Standard and Hussar and have spent countless hours in both towns. I also know/knew a number of people who not only knew of Kelly but knew her and grew up with her, including Cindy Krabsen (she was referenced in an earlier thread-about half way thru) who was one of her best friends and Ruth Christensen (notice the last name???) who was 1 grade lower than Kelly and attended school with her. Both girls (women now of course) attended the same small high school that I did. (No the high school wasn't located in Standard..it was located approx. 10 minutes away) I also knew a number of people who were a part of the search parties that scoured the surrounding countryside looking for her.

I don't know why but I did a search this morning for missing persons and eventually searched for Kelly Cook and finally stumbled across this website and thread. As I read more and posts I remember all the stories and rumours that surrounded it. Aaronp and Dub have by far the most accurate information regarding this case. Especially Aaron. As I read his posts I recalled the evidence almost exactly as he expressed it. I know he got his facts from media outlets but by and large they are a great representation of the facts as they were known at the time. I remember listening to all the police reports and the rumours as they came out.

There was talk back then about about a suspect but I can't remember all the details anymore. I do remember that the man who called himself Bill Christensen said he was new to the area and that he said he was related to someone in the area. It is true that he originally called the figure skater to babysit and she referred him to Kelly. I can't remember her name but I do recall seeing the article and picture in the newspaper. It is true that he called from the gas-station located on the "Standard Corner"...almost a service-like road that ran parallel to the #1 hiway just before the Trans-Canada turned and headed towards Gleichen. I do remember the composite photo that floated around for a long time...it was in local store windows, taped to telephone poles etc. It was also in all the local papers.

There was a small hamlet called Rosebud located a short distance from Standard. A writer/reporter for the Drumheller Mail lived there and wrote stories about local happenings. She lived there and wrote for the newspaper in the 80's including at the time of this case. Her name was Linde Turner. I don't know if she still lives there or not. She might be someone to try and contact for more information. I know her son and know where he is living. If someone is interested I MAY be able to find out where she is now.

I have always had a definite "feel" for the murder of Kelly Cook. I read with interest all the conspiracy theories that are posted here and many of them I get a strong NO feeling for. They either have incorrect evidence/assumptions or seem completely too far-fetched to have happened the way they are presented. I have always thot this was really more cut and dried then the way most people look at it. Maybe because I was young at the time I have had a much simpler approach to it. For the sake of argument here's my thots...feel free to shoot them down!!!   :-)

The killer is not from the area as he would have been known. Hussar and Standard are very close and very small and there is lots of crossing over between the 2. The killer is familiar with the area. As expressed before both are off the beaten path...you have to have a reason to be there. I always thot he must have worked on a farm or something like that. Often transient workers came in to help with the busy times like calving, seeding and harvesting. He could have become familiar with the area hauling grain or some such thing. That would give him intimate knowledge of the back roads as well as the more common names in the area. ( Christensen is a VERY common name in that area) The killer also mentioned that he lived a short distance out of town. I don't know where I heard that but I do distinctly remember hearing it.

So someone familiar with the area saw the skater's picture in the local paper (she had just won a competition or something) and took a liking to her. He called the school (as there's only one school in the whole town that she could have attended) and obtained her number but nothing else. He called her under the guise of having her babysit...she couldn't but passed on the name of another girl to call. He can't make his first target work so later he tries the same approach with Kelly...and this time is does work. While Christensen is a common name in the area his "name" isn't so she asked around but no one has heard of him before. But he's new so maybe that's why.  She tells her Mom she's going babysitting for someone new in the area. She's told to call with the info when she gets there. He arrives and picks her up. She's going babysitting (something she did frequently) so no one gives it a second thought. After an hour or so and no call her Mom gets worried She remembers the new comment and calls a couple of people to see if they either know who hw is or if they know of anyone new to the area. Getting no leads and still having gotten no call from Kelly she calls the police.

After he picks her up he heads out of town. Going thru Hussar in the quickest way to the #1 hiway and it avoids the gas station and all its lights. He either goes to Hussar or stops someplace on the way and either he sexually assaults her or tried to. (he has to have a motive for taking her and this is the most common one. And while there was no evidence that she was assaulted there is also no evidence that she wasn't as her body is so badly decomposed when it's found) He assaults her or tries to assault her and eventually she escapes and makes her way into Hussar. (Anyone from Standard knows how to get to Hussar even on foot) He catches up with her as she tries to call the operator from the payphone (this accounts for the 1.5 hour delay between the time she leaves home and the phone frantic phone call) and the fact that you can call the operator without having to insert any money makes it the logical call to make. Now he is mad that she has gotten away and possibly in a fit of rage kills her. If she wasn't assaulted before this could account for why she wasn't at all. Or the fact that she almost got away frightens him and he kills her to make sure she doesn't get away again and that he can't get caught.

After he gets her back into the car he heads for a safe place...home. (and this is the tie-in for the suspect from Warner) He heads to Warner and as he drives he thinks of ways to dispose of the body. He knows he has to pass by Chin lake and decides this would be the perfect place. He either stumbles across the cinder blocks while looking for weights or he knows of them ahead of time and stops and collects them on-route. He places the body in the water and continues home.

I think this crime has some fore-thought to it but not as much as people think. I think some of it was made up "on the fly". I also think it would be easy to test this theory. Get answers to the following questions...

-What did the suspect from Warner do for a living? Is that job transferrable to the Standard area?
-Was he known to have been in Standard/Hussar at any time before the murder?
-Did he have a similar car as reported or have access to one?
-Does he look similar to the drawing?
-Why did the people from Warner point to him as a suspect? What was the evidence that made them do so?
-Why was he killed? Did it have anything to do with this murder or something similar that he did elsewhere?

This suspects name is known and not hard to get. His death was reported by his local papers. The information wouldn't be hard to get either...talk to his family and friends. Interview the guy who killed him and find out what he knew. Ask around Warner and find out the what information or evidence came out after his death...then he can be removed as a suspect or confirmed as a killer.

Maybe I've gotten a much to simple view of things...but I have always thought that murders aren't all that deep or complicated. In most assault cases the death of the victim is usually to keep the prepetrator from being found out. I think this was an assault case whether or not it actually occured...what other reason would someone have to abduct a teenage girl?


During this post I have written in a very straightforward manner. I am NOT making light of Kelly's death. I mean no disrespect to her or the Cook family...especially on the anniversary of her abduction. If I have offended anyone I am sorry!

With love and my deepest respect I humbly submit this post.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2009, 02:36:22 PM
Point taken, apologies to any one who was offended by my own previous post. On this anniversary I could no longer sit by reading the comments and saying nothing. It got to me, everyone looking for information and saying someone out there must know something. Little good it did, i'm done.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 23, 2009, 02:49:40 PM
D1 .... I believe your story and it all makes sense.
This part bothers me:
Quote
He said that someone else knew about this also but that if they tried to talk, he had left something (an item) there at his place to make it look like the other had done it. Behind the fridge or something like that, sort of an insurance policy. I would have thought this person would be the owner of the vehicle that he used to pick up Kelly. Unsure though..
After all these years, you would think "someone else" would come forward and verify this.  I mean it's not as though they are "turning their scum-bag buddy in"  the animal is already in hell.  One would think this person would want to dump this horrible knowledge at this time.  If that person has passed on, you can bet there is a least one other person who knows it.... everybody confides in somebody at some point.  just an observation.... people love to dig up things on the internet.... especially when they know something, nobody else does about a crime.  Let's hope theres a piece of information and a bit of conscience left out there somewhere. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Swifter on April 23, 2009, 02:51:16 PM
Point taken, apologies to any one who was offended by my own previous post. On this anniversary I could no longer sit by reading the comments and saying nothing. It got to me, everyone looking for information and saying someone out there must know something. Little good it did, i'm done.

D1...I wasn't taking a shot at you...I understand your frustration and empathize with it. My post made no reference to you in any way..positive or negative. Truthfully I support your stand in wanting anyone with any information to this or any other crime to come forward and express it...so that all families that have been hurt by a violent act can have some closure.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2009, 03:25:45 PM
The warner guy was one post by one anonymous person with zero coroberation. Call the cops and ask, otherwise you can spend a long time getting nowhere and we will be right back here at this same point in another 28 years.

There is but one reference to a confession, unfortunately I was the one to hear it. I have a name, i have signed a statement, I am known, I'm easy to find.

For me, i don't doubt the guy was telling the truth. It all gets back to this:
Quote
Quote
How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.

Was not the person who went into the funeral home demanding to see Kelly's body, described as being in his late teens early twenties??

So here you have information, from the local area, known to everyone at the time, which should be easy enough to find without going on the wild goose chase to Warner. Call your contacts, how old was the POI who went into the funeral parlor ??

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 23, 2009, 04:14:18 PM

I do not recall reading any newspaper accounts that went into detail about the age/description of the man who entered the Calgary funeral home on July 2, 1981, asking to see Kelly's body (he was denied and left). What was reported was that this incident was so odd, as it was not public knowledge that Kelly's body happened to be in that particular funeral home.

As for the suspect's age, I have read a number of news articles on this case, and in every one, the suspect was described as being in his 30s or 40s. I discounted Terry Arnold as a credible suspect because of his age - 18 or 19 years old back in 1981. Police statements consistently described the suspect as being much older.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2009, 06:00:22 PM
I know Arnold's age is the only reason he has not been seriously looked at.
Quote
Quote
How he got away with Kelly's murder could be as simple as a mistake in identifying the age of the suspect in the composite at the time.

One of the witneses in the Barb Stoppel murder later that same year, was surprised that Arnold was the age he was, she took him for about 30 years old.

Quote
Was not the person who went into the funeral home demanding to see Kelly's body, described as being in his late teens early twenties??

There is little to go on but I believe if you find the original description of this poi, you will find a much younger person.
 

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2009, 09:41:16 PM
The description of the person who entered the funeral home came from the employees, some who apparently even followed him for a distance across the parking lot and out to a side lane. The radio stations apparently reported the suspects description on air and interviewed the employees immediately after the incident. Then all went quiet, and no one talked anymore, maybe due to being put under investigation or the sighting deemed unconnected due to the age of poi being so much younger.

This is likely the point where the most information can be found that would cast doubt on the "official" age of the poi. Kelly's family or persons associated with Kelly and the investigation from back at the time are the best bet to recall the details. Any funeral home employees still around? Why was there no description or sketch of this person released by the police? Unless this poi description is made public, we might be chasing the wrong guy forever. 28 years is enough..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 24, 2009, 01:12:25 AM
Arnold's story was that he was delivering a car for his former boss or something similar to that.
Quote
He made mention of a car that he used that would not ever be traced back to him. It was his bosses or someone like that and that he was just delivering it or picking it up for someone? I believe he took the bus one way..to or from wherever he had been living.

Where would Arnold go for Easter? Possible relative in the vicinity? Arnold has an ex wife who is still alive and who could answer a lot of these questions. Winnipeg last heard.

Point is, once Arnold can be entertained as a viable suspect, there may be alot of corroborating evidence to be found. If you don't look, because he "seems" too young, you don't ever get to the evidence that could actually prove it.

Some people are young at 18, some are far different, Don't judge Arnold by the same standards you would your brother, boyfriend, or son at 18, this guy was one of the strangest most "abnormal" human beings you could ever meet.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 25, 2009, 01:27:12 AM
Thanks Swifter for the post. You brought up something that is very interesting. Drumheller.

To drive from Calgary to Drumheller, chances are you drive the route thru standard, then rodebud to get there. That is who I always did. Or you drove to Hussar and went north.

If I am not mistaken, the Coal Mine in that area closed around that time too.

We know it was probably planned in advance and that the person was familiar with the area. So could that be a mine worker or a person in Drumheller or calgary or somewhere that communted thru Standard?

I doubt the idea he worked for a local farm or ranch even on a temp basis just because someone would have seen him. But a guy who simply passed thru town sometimes could avoid detection and he knew it.

He probably did have his sites set on a particular girl. Maybe he got a copy of the paper one day and decided he wanted her? Once his mind was made up, and his plan failed, he choose someone else?

Arnold I hope, the police have tracked wherever he was at any time to see if he was anywhere near there. Sure I do think it is possible, did he look like the suspect in the photo?

Thanks for the info Swifter. It does sound like there was a suspect. If you ever get any more info about this person and how strong of a suspect and why, that would be great.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2009, 12:45:59 PM
This seem to be another of those cases in which the police know a whole lot more than anyone has been told. There are hints of a suspect being known and of someone being questioned immediately after the abductiion...

Arnold alluded to someone else having an infatuation with the figure skater. Arnold claimed to have left something behind to cast suspicion on another. Perhaps all of this comes together with something else that has been found or with what is being said about another suspect?

Quote
At some point Arnold claimed it was someone else who first had the interest in the skater and that he Arnold had merely just volunteered to get her for the other.

After this long, the investigation of Kelly's murder is as cold as a case can get. Whats the point of keeping everything so confidential anymore? Can't the police at least confirm whether they have a suspect or not? Could they not confirm whether something was found at a residence in Warner? Why has the description and sketch of the arrogant brazen person demanding to see Kelly's body at the funeral home never been released? Why does that still remain secreted to this day even though the original sketch has not yielded any results?

The funeral home sighting was so bizarre, all the employees took note of this guy, unlike the earlier sightings of a casual encounter at a gas station. This is the one thing that is well known, that is readily available, and could easily be released by the police. There is more direct evidence available right here than from any other known avenue of pursuit. The police have this in their possesion, call them, everything else is a waste of time comparatively.

Perhaps with full disclosure and a little honest intent on the part of the police, Kelly's murder could still be solved. Right now, it's the police disclosure policy in this case that is hampering any further investigation.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 25, 2009, 01:30:31 PM
If one reads on the material out there on Barbara Stoppel, they will find that Arnold is the most likely suspect....
he was drawn to Barbara in the same way he was drawn to "the figure skater"...
he is arrogant and gets what he wants.... if he doesn't, he's fit to kill.

seems to me, both cases point to the same killer profile.
also....the same eagerness by authorities to pin it on someone else.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 25, 2009, 03:47:51 PM
Well, I see Terry Arnold is being touted as the most likely killer of Kelly Cook back in 1981. So, as per my previous postings, I'm going to rely on informative sources, including the following:

1) Deadly Innocencee, by Scott Burnside and Alan Cairns, 1995.

2) Lethal Marriage, by Nick Pron, 1995.

3) No Claim to Mercy, by Derek Finkle, 1998.


I think we can all agree that Mr. Arnold was 18, possibly 19, years old back in April 1981. As for whether he looked his age or looked WAY older than his true age (taking into consideration the police composite suspect description of a man in his 30s or 40s), I cannot say.

Let's look at the description first. Eyewitness accounts, and even hypnosis accounts, are not always trustworthy. Re: the abduction of Kristen French in St. Catharines, Ontario, in 1992, by Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, a number of eyewitnesses to the abduction thought the car might be a Camaro, although no one would say for sure. But as a GM plant was located in the small city, police leaped at that possibility. "This is a GM town," reasoned one investigator as the team mulled over how to describe the car in a press release, "and people here know their GM products." (2)

Bernardo drove a Nissan (which he & Karla used in the abduction), and the police discounted him as a suspect after interviewing him in 1992 on account of that fact. (2) The FBI also wasn't on the dime re: the composite description of the suspects: two persons (both men) with criminal records for sexual offenses, and at least one (probably both) held blue-collar jobs. (2) In reality, one of the culprits was a woman, neither had criminal records at that time, and neither worked (or had worked) in a blue-collar job.

So, yes, eyewitness accounts can be suspect (not to mention law enforcement agencies!). In the case of the 1992 conviction of Rob Baltovich, in connection with the disappearance and presumed murder of his girlfriend Elizabeth Bain, the hypnosis of Marianne Perz was a crucial factor in the prosecution's case, as she claimed, under hypnosis, to have seen Rob & Elizabeth at some tennis courts on the day Elizabeth disappeared. (3) Based on her description of other persons in the vicinity, police tracked down 9 other persons who'd been at the tennis courts at that particular time, but not one of those people could recall seeing anyone resembling Rob or Elizabeth. (3) And the hypnotist, Dr. George Matheson, was stripped of his license to practice psychology in Ontario a short while later, in May 1993. (3)

I don't think the police would have released that composite description of the suspect on a hunch. But yes, as demonstrated above, police and others can get their facts wrong.

Now on to the issue of Mr. Arnold's confession to having killed Kelly Cook. My reaction is: yeah, so what? Remember that the Kelly Cook case was a very high-profile crime, and highly publicized. Take the murder of Kristen French. When killer Karla Homolka went to tell her sordid tale to a lawyer in hopes of a plea bargain (which she got), she found it difficult to get him to believe her story, because 'apparently there was no shortage of nuts who tried to tell lawyers and police they'd killed Kristen French'. (1) Police and lawyers well know that just because somebody confesses to a crime doesn't mean anything. There's got to be some real convincing evidence. I've had people tell me they're space aliens, for example, but that doesn't mean I believe them, because they've got no proof beyond their statements (which, obviously, I take with a grain of salt).

So as you see, I'm just trying to be objective. To recap, the key facts are the following:

1) Mr. Arnold was in his late teens at the time of Kelly's murder, not in his 30s or 40s. That's a fact. Whether he looked considerably older than his years at that point in time is merely speculation.

2) Police and eyewitness accounts/statements are not 100% foolproof all of the time.

3) There are plenty of nut cases out there who love to plead guilty to high-profile crimes they didn't commit.

And remember, if you feel very strongly that a particular person killed Kelly Cook, then you should go to the police rather than just using this e-board. But the police will not necessarily act on your accusation(s). Before an arrest can be made and/or a case closed, the police need demonstrable proof, such as DNA evidence, etc.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2009, 04:49:01 PM
I am going to keep pointing back to the spot where evidence can be found that could actually bear fruit.

We have one set of witnesses who saw a person and a car prior to Kelly’s murder. Nothing there directly connected that suspect with Kelly's murder other than memory based suspicion after the fact. These are the witnesses who provided all the information that went into the suspect description and the sketch.

Then you have another set of witnesses from the funeral home who all knew that a young girl had just been murdered and here you have an arrogant bizarre individual standing right in front of you demanding to see the body. These witnesses were extremely suspicious and highly attentive to the point of following the individual as he left.

Why allow the first set of witnesses to provide all the details that contributed to a composite sketch and discount the others?

Regardless of whether it was Arnold or not, regardless whether there was a confession or not, this is the point where everything we think we know can change. It doesn’t take me to call the cops, someone should have called them on this a long time ago..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 25, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
There are some interesting points being raised in these last few pages. I found some 'facts' about Arnold in the Impression Warrant found at the following link: 

http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf

For anyone who has the time to read it, it has some very interesting details that sheds light on his past.

Also, the 'alleged Warner suspect' bears a close resemblance to the composite sketch released back in 1981. In my opinion the resemblance is as close as any I have seen and too much to discount. But, as far as debating his likelihood on this board, there is no information to confirm anything in that regard. Is it possible that somewhere in here the answers hide that could help solve the case? I don't know but it sure would be nice if this could have a definitive, official end, whether justice is attainable or not. For Kelly's sake I would like to see justice served but if not, maybe answers would still be 'something' for Kelly's family and friends.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 26, 2009, 01:33:22 PM
There has been enough said on here recently to warrant the RCMP reopening this case.

At the time of the crime, the RCMP may well have been under the same impression as what Aaron has stated,
Quote
I discounted Terry Arnold as a credible suspect because of his age

It just seems beyond the realm of possibility for an 18 year old "kid" to commit and pull off a crime like this. But there is a possibility that in hindsight this case can still be solved.  Arnold had family in Bently Alta. that he may have visited on occaision.

Quote
One of the undisputables is that Terry Samuel Arnold was born May 31, 1962, in St. Catharines, Ont., to Donna Ethenal Gail Paton and Afton Samuel Arnold. He and his younger sister, Tracy, were uprooted early on after their parents split, with Donna taking the two children home to Winnipeg. They remained there for a few years, but later moved to Bentley, in central Alberta, after Donna married Leonard Kenyon.

In a series of articles later published by the Calgary Herald, there is even a reference to Terry Arnold attempting to kill his own stepbrother way back before they were even 10 years old.
Quote
An ex-girlfriend recalls Arnold's mother saying her son was removed once from her home for trying to kill one of his half-brothers.

Arnold's grandfather had this to say about him:
Quote
He blames the judicial system for not keeping a tighter rein on Arnold in his younger days. ``Psychiatrists said back then he shouldn't be on the street. He shouldn't be on the street now,'' said Bruce.

We all know what Arnold has been accused of since
Copies of the entire collection of Herald news articles about Arnold have been found at:
http://mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm (http://mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm)

If there is anything to what Arnold claimed in his drunken confession, there may still be evidence left that would tie a lot of things together, maybe even the Warner suspect if indeed something had been found there. Arnold claimed someone else was involved initially and that he had left something to cast suspicion on the other should that individual try to implicate him. Somewhere's in here, the answers may lay.

First off though, how to get the description of the funeral home suspect released?? That may open the door to the rest.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2009, 10:49:16 PM
well I guess we just have to find out of arnold was anywhere near Standard in 1981. I hope someone has a link to a photo of arnold.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2009, 11:30:56 AM
Response to Aaron:

Quote
So as you see, I'm just trying to be objective. To recap, the key facts are the following:

1) Mr. Arnold was in his late teens at the time of Kelly's murder, not in his 30s or 40s. That's a fact. Whether he looked considerably older than his years at that point in time is merely speculation.

From Des:
Quote
This report linked says that at the time of Barbara Stoppel's murder, Terry Arnold looked like the composite sketch although he was "heavier in the face" than the sketch appeared. The officers who investigated this murder said TA looked older than his 19 years.

Quote
3) There are plenty of nut cases out there who love to plead guilty to high-profile crimes they didn't commit.

Arnold emphatically denied ever kiling anyone to the police and the press. He wasn't one of those attention seeker types who wanted to confess to some high profile crime for kicks.

Re:
Quote
Before an arrest can be made and/or a case closed, the police need demonstrable proof, such as DNA evidence, etc.

In order to get to this point, the police really should investigate first in order to obtain any available evidence before they can make a charge determination. That does not appear to have happened yet in regard to Terry Arnold. The funeral home witness statements could turn this whole case around.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2009, 02:01:53 PM
It is entirely possible that the RCMP already have some of this evidence as indicated but have just not connected all the dots. The funeral home witnesses could tie it all together with a younger suspect; the vehicle, additional witnesses, etc..could all surface from there. The ball is back in the hands of the RCMP, they hold the information required to further this investigation.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 28, 2009, 12:50:10 PM

"The description of the person who entered the funeral home came from the employees, some who apparently even followed him for a distance across the parking lot and out to a side lane. The radio stations apparently reported the suspects description on air and interviewed the employees immediately after the incident. Then all went quiet, and no one talked anymore, maybe due to being put under investigation or the sighting deemed unconnected due to the age of poi being so much younger."



I don't ever recall any media accounts describing this type of situation. All I read was that a man showed up at the funeral home, demanded to see the body, was denied, and left. So I'd really appreciate it if someone could post demonstrable proof, as per a quotation from a newspaper for example, to substantiate the above points.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 28, 2009, 02:37:53 PM
This is a good point. I got the story from a woman with three daughters who lived in the area at the time. She claims the funeral home employees account of the incident was even aired on a Calgary television station.

re Aaron:
Quote
All I read was that a man showed up at the funeral home, demanded to see the body, was denied, and left.


Where is your proof of the above? Where is that newspaper quote? Why was there no description given? Why is there such scant information available on what is one of the strangest and possibly the most telling aspects of the entire investigation?

The Strathmore Standard should have had a reference to this 'incident" but the following article is all that was found. Had to copy in 3 segments. Note the line in section two, (there were varying descriptions of the suspect at the time) Not everyone was in agreement with the suspect description that was released. Note the agreed upon points listed in the article did not include age.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 29, 2009, 08:21:18 AM

This is the official description of the suspect, taken directly from a 2005 newspaper article on the crime:


The killer is about 5-ft.-10 with a medium to heavy build. He would have been between 30 and 45 years old back in 1981 and he had brown hair, a square face, wide nose and sideburns.
He was driving a medium or full-size, light-coloured North American car.



And in this article, and all others I've read, there was never any mention about funeral home attendants following the man who paid a visit to the funeral home, etc. Just that a man showed up, was denied permission to see Kelly's body, and left.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 29, 2009, 10:07:25 AM

Eyewitness accounts, and even hypnosis accounts, are not always trustworthy. (From an Earlier post of AaronP.)

So isn't it possible this official description as you call it could be flawed?

_________________________________________________________________________

It may not be totally accurate, and police can make mistakes. However, it's the official description of the suspect, as per a news source. All of the information I've posted on this board has been from official sources per se. Truth be told, I would place more belief & validity in the official police reports than many of the pie-in-the-sky theories I've seen on this board.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on April 29, 2009, 12:03:56 PM

Very good points chet19. We all know that not everything written in the newspapers is acurate all the time.

I certainly wouldn't discount what D1 said about Arnold's confession either, based on the fact that he was a suspect in the other murders that he bragged about on the same occaision.

As you've said chet speculation is allowed if not encouraged on this board.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 29, 2009, 12:42:32 PM
I am not disputing what the official description of the suspect is. It has been the same since early on in the investigation. It has never changed or been revised since. After 28 years, that description and sketch has not produced a viable suspect.

It is my contention that the age description and sketch are slightly flawed, and that this mistake is the main reason that this case has never been solved.

Aaron, I get where you are coming from, I have read everything you have provided and welcomed what you have said to clear up the misconceptions. It is obvious that you have a great deal of knowledge and interest in this particular case.

Re your comment on the funeral home incident:
Quote
Just that a man showed up, was denied permission to see Kelly's body, and left.

I take it that this is the point where we will perhaps always differ, you have your interpretation and I have mine. I have to say that I find your comments and stand on the funeral home suspect to be almost out of character with everything else you have said and sent. I understand that there are some who believe the police to be almost infallible and won’t question them no matter what, but I just believe that common sense has to match the circumstances and apply as well.

In my opinion your interpretation of the funeral home incident is minimizing the significance of the incident to the extreme.

The person in the funeral home did not just show up and leave as you indicate and I question why you would word it as such.

I believe even your original wording refering to the little that was published about the incident used the term “demanded” to see Kelly’s body. The way you describe it now is almost as if this were some casual inquiry from a passerby and that the person just left calmly when refused.

 If you have the original 2005 news article as you say, could you please publish the exact quote you describe as:
Quote
Just that a man showed up, was denied permission to see Kelly's body, and left

I believe that this interpretation is so far from the truth as to be obstructionist. The real story was well known to the police, the press, and to anyone else of sufficient age and interest to have taken note at the time. I have no doubt that some of the older people from around Standard would still recall the incident

At the very least, the incident caused concern to the employees at the funeral home and warranted investigation. As noted, very few knew Kelly’s body was at that location. There would have been some sort of an investigation and there would have been a description of this person. Where is any mention of that? Why wasn’t an “official” description released when there should have been? Why is the description of this person missing from every publication? If the incident was taken seriously and was suspicious enough to warrant media attention and public mention, why not disclose the suspect description? What else would be of any more importance than that? Were they not hunting for Kelly’s murderer at the time? Do you think the police and the press never asked? The description of the person would have to be obtained in order to even compare it to the earlier description would it not? If there was no match, why not just release the description and say so instead of concealing it? Why has this incident been minimized and downplayed right from the day it occurred, a policy that appears to remain in effect even today.

Perhaps Aaron would be the best person to explain why that continues even now but maybe I’m asking too much. I may as well be asking if Aaron were a member or former member of the police or whether there was some undisclosed agenda or motive to warrant the continued "official" portrayal of the funeral home incident. Aaron, why do you want to continue to downplay the funeral home incident to this degree? You must realize that will only maintain the present POI description as is! 

IMO.. we have found the evidentiary based point that can turn this entire investigation around. Who wouldn't want that?

So Aaron, nothing personal but I sincerely believe this to be the last, best, and only chance for the truth to ever be known about what happened to Kelly and I believe that the evidence to support this position is still available. In fact, I believe the evidence can be found in the RCMP case records.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Emylee on May 02, 2009, 11:14:30 PM
He could of possibly had some native descent in him, which caused him to be a bit darker, but didn't have the telltale signs of a "native".
E.g, the looks etc.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 03, 2009, 03:27:18 AM
Could have been american. Des did find a simular case, at around th same time, near the Montana North Dakota border. In 1981, lots of jobs headed south after the national energy program. Many of those were from Texas and other places like that.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 03, 2009, 08:11:01 AM
There could be all kinds of explanations for a tanned weathered look. I remember back when I was attending school near Winnipeg around that time, the only kid in our school with a tan that winter had been using some kind of medication and a heat/sunlamp to treat a severe acne condition.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on May 03, 2009, 10:50:24 AM
I'm sorry, but I really have to differ on the suggestions here, of what is required to have an appearance of "tanned" skin.
My family are German-Dutch on my father's side....those who take after my father's family are always pale, and have a hard time getting a heathly tan.
My mother's side of the family are of French-English descent...they are always full of color.  We have always lived on Canada's east coast where the winters are long and hard.  However, my brother's and sisters who take after my mother's family, need only go out in the winter wind....and they get dark weathered skin.  I have one brother, in particular who spends his life, (between work and activities) out of doors.  He is tanned the year round, because his skin is also always windbeaten.  I might add that I've always observed that people with poxy conditioned skin are, too, most always darker skin.... as tho it is an accompanying characteristic of poxy type or overly porous skin.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 05, 2009, 11:58:28 AM
Thanks Lost, I have noticed that phenomena with people who had a certain skin type but did not know what it was called. The American suspect theory was developed partially due to the reported skin coloring of the suspect description.

Re: Quote
Quote
Could have been american. Des did find a simular case, at around th same time, near the Montana North Dakota border.

There is no real evidence to link the cases and the profile of the U.S. crime seems way off in almost all aspects in comparison with Kelly's. The only link is that a girl disappeared awhile before Kelly did, down there in that area. There were very few other cases of this type around that time.

The next was Barb Stoppel up here in Winnipeg, a case that exhibited far more comonalities with Kelly and produced a suspect who had been living in Calgary BEFORE MOVING TO WINNIPEG. Both Kelly's murder and Barb's have always been described by the same term, BRAZEN!

THERE IS NO GETTING AWAY FROM THIS..IT ALL KEEPS COMING BACK TO THE SAME GUY!


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 09, 2009, 05:00:58 PM
I attended the Armstrong B.C. fall fair back around 1980 and when the fair came to town, it was a big deal.. At some time during the evening I had stepped outside of the public enclosures and while I was standing out out sight behind a tree, I saw a guy sneaking up the fence lines towards where two teenage girls were sitting on some steps on the other side.  I watched as he crouched down to peer between the fence slats, his head only a foot away from them and they never even knew it.
I grabbed a couple of buddies and we went around to save the girls.
The one girl was incensed, she took us to a booth and pointed out the guy who had been harrasing and spying on her.

I believe that the stalker was Terry Arnold, I had taken him to have been about 26- 28 back then and I am usually really good with that kind of stuff especially if in the same age group at the time. I'd don't recall being fooled like that before, I was off a whole decade. His Acne lines ran together like wrinkles, he was outside everyday working the fair. Very dark, w/sideburns. Somehow the combination made him seem older.

Oh yea..the girl that was the object of the staikers desires, I believe was Barb Stopel..

I recall that about two weeks after the fair left town, the local news announced that a girl had been raped on her way home back at the time. They just gave the date, you had to do the figuring, but it could have been the same night..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 09, 2009, 09:50:24 PM
Yaa lucky me, well luckier than alot of others who had encounters with this guy.. Maybe Aaron is using his connections to obtain the original description of the funeral home suspect from the RCMP? You can only defend a position for so long in the face of discrepancies before you have to take a fresh look to see if the evidence really supports it..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 12, 2009, 11:32:18 PM
But didn't this arnold guy rape women? if I am not mistaken, no sexual assult was commited on Kelly.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 13, 2009, 11:32:52 AM
Same found with Barbara Stoppel.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on May 13, 2009, 11:59:50 AM
From what I've read on both those cases, I get the impression that "this guy" became enraged in both cases - I'm guessing Kelly jumped out and ran, and he had to catch her again....(plus he was already livid because he couldn't get the right girl - his type) - thus he goes from capture to kill - because his rage is greater than his "cunning".... same with Barbara.  I'd say Barbara tried to save herself as well, This seems to be a weakness with some of those rapists..... if one thing goes wrong, they just kill - because that's their final goal anyway.  I think when these guys are more killer, than rapper .... there may be a lot of variables and moods and change of plans with each encounter.  
Terry Arnold strikes me as that very type..... up and down ..... cunning then risking ..... hot then cold.  Maybe that is why they can carry on for so long; because each kill is different.  They are really the fickle easily distracted predator.  ....able to focus for so long and that's all.... as soon as the circumstances get altered, so does their concentration.  .....I think that type is hard to "profile" because such lunatics more often than not, "Play it by ear!" ..... Shannon Murrin being another.  Because they are so "fickle", God only knows how many times they may have killed for many reasons - besides what their "profiles" suggest.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 15, 2009, 11:55:33 PM
Excellent study Lost.
Even though there is enough new information to warrant a better look from the police, its worth a little reminder that Arnold was implicated in two other murders of girls of this age in which the DNA evidence was available. Yet he was never charged for either. See Barbara Stoppel and Denise Laperrier This becomes a little much to comprehend for some people and they go in search of alternate explanations to maintain the staus quo and avoid the implications..A government sanctioned serial killer of teenage girls is a little hard to swallow.
found at http://mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm (http://mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on May 16, 2009, 12:31:21 PM
good one Des ..... hope this comes back to memory D..... I know it's been a long time, but sometime the sound of "a voice" will come back to you in a dream.... at least it does with me.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 16, 2009, 01:11:59 PM
Re:
Quote
I've wondered if Terry Arnold were forced into suicide, it's a fleeting thought that has come up a few times when I read about the fact he was protected by LE

Quite possible, how else can the police deal with a guy like this after being so involved with him themselves. Denise Laperrierrre's uncle was even a ranking member of the Calgary police when her body was found virtually on Arnolds doorstep. DNA was available right from the start, yet there were never any charges.

Arnold at the fair barely spoke, just glared back. Arnold in the hotel pub  spoke constantly and mainly about sex. His voice was just normal in tone but he had a way about him reflected in voice. He was quite smooth and fairly articulate in his descriptions and opened topics that most guys don't with strangers. He got your attention. But there was nothing really unusual about his voice that I recall..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 16, 2009, 06:00:15 PM
I am beginning to understand more about patterns and dates, when a poi is identified in one, a pattern is identified that can be checked against others. Quite often the same perps are good for more than one. I read about the others listed above, gruesome. I understand the motive to pursue whoever is involved. Thats how I feel about Kelly.

I tried to find evidence that would have ruled Arnold out before ever posting the confession I had heard from him. At the end I couldn't find anything to exonerate him that could not be explained away.  I have wracked my brain over this for quite some time, I have nothing left to offer. I am fully aware that what I heard or what I have said is not enough on its own to prove anything. The only thing I found that could prove and justify Arnold's inclusion as a viable suspect is the funeral home incident. I had hoped that someone would have kept a published media copy of that suspects description, maybe a family member or family friend would have been suspicious enough at the time.

As it is now, the police are in possesion of the only evidence which would cast doubt on their original suspect profile but to release that would of course further the questions about their involvement with Terry Arnold. That brings up another question to me. I wonder what happened to the funeral home employee/ witnesses in the years since? Has there been a suspicious pattern of accidents or otherwise? The potential exists for some hugely inflammatory evidence to surface yet.

There should be an official inquiry into all of the activities of Terry Arnold and the Police investigators to unearth what really went on...If the police say they weren't involved in his protection, then they should be welcoming a study to see how he got away with it in order to prevent it from happening again.

If the police were involved, there should be an official government or royal inquiry to get to the bottom of why they looked away and allowed something so obviously and blatently illegal to continue for so long.

As it now stands, we have an uninvestigated government sanctioned serial killer..  And if there is one, maybe there are alot more of them than we know. ???

Kelly may have been the first of Arnold's many victims but the last to be identified as a victim of this serial killer. It is only in hindsight and with the input from all the other victims that Kelly's murder can possibly be solved. Kelly's is a story who's time has come..

Quote
Matthew 20:16 "and the first will be last, because many are called, but few are chosen."
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 16, 2009, 08:26:28 PM
There could be something to do with a second poi that could provide explanations for the descrepancy in age. If it were that way it would be the first poi who called from the gas station that was not Arnold. By Arnold's own admission it was him who went to pick up Kelly. The funeral home investigation report is likely all there is left to go on. Why that was never released could also have various explanations but the end result is that Arnold could not be identified by the suspect description that was released.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 21, 2009, 06:15:40 AM
There could be something to do with a second poi that could provide explanations for the descrepancy in age. If it were that way it would be the first poi who called from the gas station that was not Arnold. By Arnold's own admission it was him who went to pick up Kelly. The funeral home investigation report is likely all there is left to go on. Why that was never released could also have various explanations but the end result is that Arnold could not be identified by the suspect description that was released.

That would make a lot of sense. I mean, how many 18 year old can cross the country and do such evil stuff so young. Maybe he had a partner even if a submissive one?

also, an 18 year old would have flown under the radar at the time, cause no one was looking for one.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 22, 2009, 08:49:44 PM
I had assumed to some degree that Arnold was saying someone else had the fixation with the figure skater to downplay his own uncontrollable attraction to the girl. The way he was acting was all tough and in control, like he couldn't just loose it over some pretty little thing. He made it sound as if the other guy was too chicken to follow through and so he Arnold said, I'll go get her for you.
The impression he left was that he had done in Kelly out of spite and to scare the figure skater as payback for rejection. He wanted to show her what she was dealing with. He also said that he had called the skaters home several other times over the years from payphones, sometimes late at night and just hung up, so they would not be able to forget him. He said he knew they would be laying there in bed thinking of him afterwards. He seemed to get off on that.

It was this degree of after the crime follow through that made me doubt the involvement of the other, it seemed more personal to Arnold than he thought he was making it sound.

I recall seeing a photo of Barb Stoppel on the internet at one time wearing a figure skater outfit. That connection always struck me.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 24, 2009, 02:16:19 PM
This is really only my interpretation of what Arnold said and is fairly subjective. I don't believe there was another involved to the degree that Arnold insinuated but I don't really know. I base that partly on the glasses worn by the poi in the sketch and those worn by Arnold. They are the same. The same glasses show up again in the suspect sketch of the poi in Barb Stoppels murder. The police said that Arnold appeared heavier than the poi in Barb's murder and that he appeared older than his age would indicate. My personal "assumptions" are that this is Arnold all the way through and that there were 'mistakes' made in eye witness reports that led to the age discrepancy.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on June 14, 2009, 09:13:35 AM
Interesting post made on the following thread:

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2117.msg26851;topicseen#msg26851

Thank -you SeaOtter for the time-line. It really does show how much time before and after his arrest that he had the freedom to roam about. Do you know did he ever spend any time in jail for the hit & run that he was involved in? When you mentioned him having worked on a farm in Alberta at one point I immediately thought of Kelly Cook. Her murder too was committed by someone so Brazen in their actions. Shelly Ann Bacsu's disappearance from Hinton in May of 1983 also comes to mind. Hinton is not too far down the road from Clearwater, and it is on the route likely travelled if a person was visiting farms in the province.  I noticed a picture of Shearing on a link in the first post of this thread. I have to think that he had a haircut before his day in court.

This is in reference to David Shearing now known as David Ennis. The photo of Shearing/Ennis at the time of his trial which I assume is in maybe 1984 or so, has some similarities to the composite sketch made of Kelly's killers, imo. I read somewhere Shearing/Ennis was 23, either at the time of the Wells Grey murders or 23 when RCMP suspected him. He committed those murders in 1982.  Either way, that would make him younger than the said suspect in Kelly's case BUT the picture of Shearing/Ennis at the time of his trial shows a man that would likely be considered older than someone in their 20s.

Interesting. I wonder if he has ever been questioned in regards to Kelly's case (or as the poster above indicated in Shelly Ann Bascu's disappearance).

I wonder what area the farm was that Shearing/Ennis worked at?

I wonder if retired RCMP member Eastham responsible for Shearing/Ennis' capture and conviction would shed anylight on these questions?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on June 16, 2009, 08:00:30 PM
Thanks Des. So any resemblance I thought I saw in the head on pic of Shearing/Ennis, is completely discounted by the profile b&w picture on the other thread.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Alder on June 26, 2009, 02:24:22 AM
Just came across a December 7-1983 newspaper article mentioning that the RCMP were renewing their investigation in this case in the Taber area after new leads came out.  They’re quoted as stating:  “We’re comfortable in saying the murderer was familiar to some degree with the Taber area and possibly with the Standard area.”

Old news, but I’m not sure the Taber connection has been discussed above.  (Sorry if that already was mentioned.)

Such a sad case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on June 30, 2009, 11:29:30 PM
That is interesting, that was years later. I'd agree with that though, it does nto seem likely anyone would just be in these places unless they knew about them
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on September 01, 2009, 01:27:35 AM
Hi All,
Another newbie here...this case caught my attention after watching Cold Case Files on A&E the other day (this case was not aired, it just gave me the idea to search for unsolved cases in Canada). I typed in unsolved murders in Alberta and this was one of the first files which caught my attention.  When this tragic event happened, I was 2 years old and in living in Saskatchewan at the time of Kelly Cook's murder, so I had never heard of this case until recently (I now reside in the Calgary area).  There are some great discussions, speculations & theories brought forward by all of you here in hopes of achieving the same goal of solving this murder and giving her family final closure.  All are real possibilities as to what happened that night.  After reading & re-reading the entire thread a couple of times, I thought I'd create an account so I could share some of my thoughts on this perplexing case.

I understand the suspect in the sketch was not anyone local and drove a "newer modeled" car, but is believed to have been someone very familiar with the area like a salesman, a hired-hand for a farmer or an oilfield worker.  I'm going to rule out hired hand as the employing farmer would or should have recognized the suspect from the sketch, or reported to Police the sudden resignation or disappearance of a worker shortly after she went missing.

These things are just strictly my opinion and I have no basis or evidence for them, but this is what crossed my mind in regards to this matter.

-I don't believe the killer to be a salesman; the weathered appearance wouldn't suit a salesman.  As it was April, he probably worked outside often during the winter, but seldom wore gloves so he must have had a job where he was in & out of the elements often.

-Some of you were in the area when Trudeau practically shut down the oilfield, so if the area was shut down, I'm also going to rule an oil worker out.

Based on the descriptors given from the sketch on Page 5 of this thread, I have a few observations about the guys appearance.  5'10 and 160 lbs are listed as his approximate weight & height, but the next line down it states "medium to heavy build".  At 5'10 and 160, this guy would be pretty lean or skinny (I'm 5'11 and 195 but do not have a heavy build).  My thinking of medium to heavy would put the guy in the area of at least 185 lbs. and I would say a maximum of about 210 lbs. for a heavy build (but not overweight...as the description says medium to heavy not just heavy).  I know people's estimations can vary, but this variance is strange to me is all.  In regards to the vehicle, the car was reported/thought to have had Alberta license plates, but this sounds like it was not a for sure thing, or am I misreading?  At any rate,  I found a great website which shows a history of license plates from jurisdictions all over the world (http://www.worldlicenseplates.com).  From 1975-1984 Alberta issued lemon yellow license plates with black lettering.  All other surrounding provinces & states did not have a similar colored plate during this or any other time period up to and including 1981 except for Manitoba.  They had a dull yellow plate with brown lettering; this style of plate was issued from 1976-1982.  This could be why it is uncertain if it did in fact have Alberta plates, if the car was dusty or dirty it may have covered up the color of the lettering and masked the jurisdiction or was intentionally covered.  There also seems to be conflicting reports of whether the POI was wearing a windbreaker which displayed some sort of emblem on it.  According to the descriptors with the sketch, he was so I'm going with that.  This in turn got me thinking a little bit and I found myself pondering these 4 questions: 

1) In what type of job are you outside a lot but not exposed for extended periods of time ?
2) In what type of job are you on the road a fair amount?
3) In what type of job would/could you travel the same route or visit the same towns on a routine basis, enough where you get familiar with the back roads of a certain large area or quadrant without causing suspicion to yourself or vehicle?
4) In what type of job do employers hand out items of clothing with company emblems on it?

I don't know if anyone has suggested this, but my personal answers to all 4 questions point to this guy possibly being a delivery truck driver or a tractor-trailer driver who used to make deliveries (be it groceries, fuel or general supplies) or pickups to/from this area and communities; however, it would seem he lived close enough to use his personal vehicle or borrowed someones for the night he took Kelly, if he was in fact from Alberta.  It has been reported Kelly's dad worked at a fertilizer plant...what if this guy picked up fertilizer & transported it down to the States, as an earlier poster mentioned a possible link between Kelly's disappearance & a 15 year old North Dakota girl's disappearance as both are within 2 weeks of each other (I'm not saying they are linked, but you never know).  He may have used Hwy. 36 to get down to the border and this route was his excuse to revisit the site during his hauls. The only difference is Kelly's abduction we know was planned, the one in the U.S. seemed to be a crime of opportunity...two opposite ends of the spectrum; however if the perp happens to be the same person and he was in fact hauling a load of fertilizer or whatever, he may have seen the girl walking and he picked her up on the promise of giving her a ride a few miles up the road or wherever.  I see hitchhikers accepting rides from truck drivers often so this could be a possibility.  Anyways, no one would really suspect a truck driver, he wouldn't be known to the locals, but was there just enough to become familiar with the roads and area.  Maybe there was a truck driver back in '81 who matched this description but went totally undetected because really, who scouts the delivery/truck driver?  He may not have hauled to or from this area for very long either.  I'd say at most, truckers usually get a glance (if that) from most people so he may not have stuck out that much.  I'm assuming the fertilizer plant was out of town, so no one from town would recognize the guy, especially if he was new to the job/area and had only been driving this route for a few months when he happened to grab a newspaper and saw the original target.  I'm guessing some people after seeing the sketch probably had the deja vu feeling of "where have I seen this guy before?" but were unable to connect that final dot.  As a truck driver, he'd be able to drive by the school and the general area undetected as most people think "there goes another trucker" vs cruising around a small community in his personal vehicle where people are wondering "who the hell is that?".  This occupation would give him the perfect cover, IMO.  From what I've read, alot of you believe it was Terry Arnold...does anyone know if he or any of the other suspects drove truck?  I for one am on the fence about him as it has been stated he was 18 at the time.  I also believe the perp acted alone.  I don't think anyone out there would go through all this trouble to lure someone for another person.  It just doesn't add up to me.  Another possible product this guy could have been hauling to the area and down to the U.S. is sugar.  The sugar plant in Taber is just off the junction of 3 & 36, but is on the 36 portion and has been in operation since 1950 (according to Taber's town website).  If he was a truck driver, he could have been making drops at grocery stores and/or restaurants in Strathmore and the surrounding area.  As the RCMP and many others believe this was planned for 6-8 weeks, someone who takes this much planning would also be very organized, IMO.  I'm no profiler, but this guy would probably be a neat freak and/or make lists for the things he does and would be a "creature of habit" by doing things in a certain order everyday-like the way he dresses himself.   For example, he would put his left sock on, then the right but never vice-versa.

-I for one also believe the 10:00 p.m. phone call was in fact made by Kelly.  A lot of people are wondering why she was unable to escape sooner.  Here is my theory on this:  For those of you with knowledge of vehicle history, when did electric locks and electric windows become available?  My thinking is Kelly had to have known she was in trouble soon after being picked up but was unable to attempt an escape until they got out of town.  IF the car had manual windows & locks, I'd assume the killer removed the interior window roller arm and the screw-on push-down door lock so there would be no chance of escape or her screaming out the window for help.  If the killer's car had electric locks & windows, let's assume the window controller on the passenger side would have been removed or damaged and again, the interior push-down door lock cap removed.  As she sat down & closed the door, one push of a switch from the killer to lock the doors and she's locked in with no chance of her being able to unroll the window to scream for help (just speculating here).  If this was so well planned as it is thought, you'd think he'd make sure she wouldn't be able to escape from the car through the passenger side or allow her to be able to cause attention to the car; however if it was a borrowed or rented car, maybe she was threatened as soon as she entered the car if she made any kind of disturbance, her whole family would be killed as he now knew where her family lived.  Another scenario is this guy first earned her trust and was charismatic with her the first 5 or 10 minutes after he picked her up then once they started to head out of Standard, this is when she knew she was in trouble.  He may have taken her to a backroad closer to Hussar to assault her first, but she injured him good somehow and this was when she was able to make her escape (clawed his eyes or dazed him somehow?).  She very well could have been on the run from approximately 8:45 to 10:30 and Hussar's street lamps were the only thing alit she could see.  She may have been hiding in culverts or laying down flat in fields to hide as she would see headlights long before the headlights would see her allowing her to change direction or get out of view.  She also probably told the killer she had to phone her parents as soon as she got to his house (during the "trust building" phase) so he may have headed straight for that pay-phone hoping/knowing she would opt to make her way to Hussar for help and not go back to Standard since Hussar was closer.  He then parked & waited for her to show up at the phone within a close proximity or view of it.  If she was asphyxiated, this is where he may have killed her accidentally at this point in time by cutting off her airway so she couldn't scream any more than what the operator heard.  If he had to drag her or carry her to his car he obviously would have grabbed her from behind with the bend in his arm under her chin cutting off her airway and the other across her stomach (like a sleeper hold).  I'm assuming he would have had to have squeezed pretty hard to prevent her from escaping a second time, but instead of making her pass out, he killed her.  I believe he would have grabbed her in this fashion so she wouldn't be able to bite his fingers as the more common approach is to put your hand over the other person's mouth to prevent them from screaming...maybe she already had bitten him on the fingers the first time enabling her to escape, so he learned from that mistake.  If he was waiting for her, maybe someone out walking their dog that night noticed a car sitting on a street with someone sitting in it but didn't put the two together (hopefully this may jog someone's memory reading this who lived there then).  I know it has never been proven if she was sexually assaulted or not, but I also do not think she was.  One of two things with the above scenario is why she wasn't sexually assaulted in my opinion: Her escape enraged her killer and if she caused him some sort of physical pain, this may have been the reason why she wasn't sexually assaulted first.  He has to be in control from beginning to end and this may have been the first time he lost control of the situation and this made him snap losing his sexual desire for her.  The other reason is he killed her instead of making her blackout thus making him unable to fulfill his other deviant intentions. 

-Another common question here is why would he dump her in Chin Lake?  I think the phone call to the operator put him into panic mode, got him disorganized which was uncomfortable for him.  He had to get out of the area as fast as he could because he probably believed the operator would have immediately passed the information onto the RCMP and they would be soon in the area quickly setting up a search.  Again, Kelly probably told him she needed to call her parents when she got in his vehicle and he knew they would more than likely be on the phone with the RCMP as well since they never heard from her yet.  I'm convinced he was familiar with the Lethbridge-Taber area very well and probably knew how much ice was left on Chin Lake as I'm sure there still would have been some on the lake for that time of year.  He had to go somewhere out of the probable search area where he would have time to tie her body to the blocks and make his way into the water.  I believe this guy probably owned a boat and fished this reservoir often enough to know where the deep spots are (I've never been to Chin Lake) and find one in the dark so he had a general idea of where to put her body thinking she would not ever be found.  Hypothermia would set in awfully quick so for this reason, I cannot foresee someone swimming or wading out into very cold water with a dead body tied to cinder blocks (which probably added another 60-80 lbs) out to a certain distance from shore.  I also can't see anyone leaving canoes out there either based on the time of year so I think he had access to a boat and used it to transport her body to where he dumped her. 

-On a whim, I typed in historical weather data and found a site where you can plug in any date & it will give you all the weather data for that time, be it by hourly periods for a day or the whole month at a glance.  The second & third week of April in 1981 were unusually warm, with temps hitting the mid-teens to low 20's (the first two weeks were chilly).  Around Calgary, the wind was blowing around 30 km/hr at 10:00 p.m.  I don't know if it was the same or windier out in Hussar, but this could be why no one heard her scream at the pay-phone.
  
(link to weather site: http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&Prov=XX&StationID=2205&Year=1981&Month=4&Day=30). 
(The cooler temps for that time in 1981 would also rule out a road construction worker, IMO.)

Lastly, this may or may not be a coincidence but I checked the Montana Missing Persons website and got two hits in regards to girls who went missing from 1975-1982.  They were aged 14 & 16 when they went missing and both had brown hair...both vanished mysteriously and have never been heard from again.  I Googled their names to find more info where I was referred to "charleyproject.org".  The first girl is Nancy Lynn Kirkpatrick, aged 16 and went missing in the Columbia Falls area on APRIL 21, 1976.  Columbia Falls is not very far from Whitefish...which is a hotspot for skiers is it not??  Someone suggested the killer could be a skier which would explain the weathered skin, although this was 5 years previous to Kelly disappearing.  Whitefish is only approximately 4 hours from Lethbridge as well. 
Here's the link: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kirkpatrick_nancy.html 

The other teen girl is Robyn Ann Pettinato.  She was 14 and vanished from Whitefish, MT on July 5, 1975 ( http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pettinato_robyn.html).  She has never been found or heard from since that day.  No other details are given on how they disappeared, these two young girls just vanished.

Maybe my theories are out in left field, but I thought they made sense as to what happened.  I know they bring us no closer to Kelly's murderer, but as with all theories...something may trigger someone's memory which could bring us one step closer to finding this cretin.  I, like the rest of you, hope & pray her murderer will one day be brought to justice here on Earth.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 01, 2009, 08:37:34 AM
CCF; you have put so much thought and investigative reading into this - and made so many realistic points, I only hope people from Standard and Hussar end up reading this - doesn't matter if they were young at the time...or not even born; if people take the little bit of extra effort to bring up this historical incident to each other and anybody who will listen, it all helps to tap into memories and incidentals long forgotten - also help to draw people's attention to the fact that we are in the year 2009 - long past the times when everybody sat back and figured they "knew nothing and/or could add no details to the investigation, or otherwise they would have been approached by police way back then".  Anybody with half a brain realizes in this day and age, that crimes never got solved when they occurred because police were not "all that astute" nor were they trained in forensics and profiling.  Nowadays this crime (given the small area and small population involved) would have been dealt with much more efficiently, and with a lot more thought and smarts from the general public.  I only hope folks who grew up in that area, and/or still live there, light a fire under the whole case and start digging and digging and thinking from scratch.  I still think this case has a lot of facts missing because the public just didn't stop and take notice at the time, as to what really took place...how...and by whom.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 01, 2009, 02:53:37 PM
Whatever keeps up or draws attention to any case, I am for.. So please go ahead and keep voicing your theories and interpretations.

I by way of a personal encounter have a fairly jaded outlook on the prospects for any further official investigation. Kelly's family would have to become proactively involved for that to happen.

For me, having heard a confession from a person widely acknowledged as being a serial killer, is just too hard to get around. Especially when he is now officially recognized as the only suspect in the other two cases he mentioned besides Kelly.

There are still avenues open that could be investigated and which could potentially add important new information if some momentum could be generated to reinvestigate. There isn't much more that I can say so I will leave this for everyone else. Still hoping that this can be solved somehow..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 02, 2009, 07:20:10 PM

Thanks, CCF, for an insightful post. I too discount Terry Arnold as the killer on account of the age factor. Perhaps I'm a minority spokesperson on this board in that regard, but I will continue to put more faith in police reports than in conspiracy theories. I doubt the police are trolling this site, as they're surely more knowledgeable about this case than we are and doubt they can pick up any substantial leads here. But probably the police too don't know exactly what happened to Kelly once she was picked up at her house.

CCF, you raised a good point about the situation at Chin Lake. As per news articles I've quoted, Kelly's body was dumped several yards from shore (in April 1981), about 200 yards from the highway bridge, and on the north side of Chin Lake. The body was anchored by two concrete blocks. Kelly's body was bound at the hands and feet by ropes, but I never read any news report as to how exactly her body was weighted down (i.e., the ropes were fastened to the blocks, or the blocks were just placed on top of her body?). News reports stated that the body was found on June 28, 1981, because the level of Chin Lake had dropped significantly over the past few weeks, leaving it exposed.

I would figure that to really hide a body (remember, the dumping site was not too terribly far away from the highway bridge), you'd plan for at least three feet of water. Any less than that, and you're taking chances that it'll be spotted. And at the same time, it'd be very difficult to do such a feat in water over your head. The ice was probably gone from Chin Lake by mid April, but the water would surely have been very cold, and you wouldn't want to stay in very long.

Obviously, I've never dumped a body and weighted it down, but how could this be done relatively smoothly? I figure Chin Lakes was pre-planned by the killer as a dumping site. Deciding on that site on the spur of the moment would have necessitated dragging Kelly's body, and two concrete blocks, a fair distance. It would be better to have placed the blocks at the dumping site in advance.

Once you've got the blocks and body on the beach, you then have to drag/carry the body out at least several feet. Maybe he dragged the concrete blocks out first, so as not to risk having Kelly's body drift away into deeper water (i.e., he didn't want to leave it unattended, so it was the last thing he dragged out). I imagine he'd have had to push the body down to the bottom, and to rearrange the blocks over the body, you'd have to stick your head in the cold water. And if done at night, you certainly wouldn't be able to see very well, and would have to rely more on your sense of touch than your vision to determine if the blocks were truly in place and holding the body down securely. Which might necessitate ducking down a bit and feeling around to be sure. All in all, cold, wet, and awkward work. And given water temperatures at that time of year, you would run the risk of hypothermia if you stayed out too long. Which once again indicates that it would be far better to have planned this all in advance, so as to make the body dumping go as easily as possible.

Holding the body down while covering it with the first concrete block would be pretty difficult, I would imagine. Maybe he had to duck down, hold Kelly's body down with one foot while he felt around and lugged the first concrete block into position, not releasing his foot from the body until he was sure that the block had at least anchored part of Kelly's body. But once again, that's cold, wet work.

How much does a typical concrete block weigh? How strong would someone have to be to successfully drag them out to the lake and secure them on top of a body in three feet-deep water?

And Kelly's hands and feet were bound with ropes. This has intrigued me. Did the killer subdue her while she was alive and tie her up to ensure she wouldn't run away? Or did he do it after she was dead, so as to ensure that her limbs wouldn't float out, potentially upsetting the anchoring blocks and even giving away the dumping site?

Anyhow, that's what I've wondered about.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 02, 2009, 08:50:49 PM
"It would be better to have placed the blocks at the dumping site in advance."


Interesting post AaronP.

Honestly that is something that never occured to me. For some reason I had it in my head that he either had the blocks and/or rope with him or had to find them on the fly. I am not sure why I never considered that the dumping sight may have been scoped out with the requisite items already in place. And why not? Since it appears there was so much pre-arranged planning of the crime he may have had ample time and motivation to set up the dumping site in advance to ensure everything went down smoothly for him. Which makes me think there is another crime scene - she was abducted from in front of her home, possibly was in Hussar at the pay phone although not officially confirmed and her body was found at Chin Lake. Where was she tied? In the vehicle? The lake would be risky, even at night. Was there another location? A field, abandoned farm house where the actual murder took place assuming Kelly was already lifeless when submerged. Again, I don't think this was confirmed either.

Often the dumping sites are significant in their own right; ie familiar to the criminal, a place where they can re-live the crime, a place where they have done this before etc. If the dumping site was scoped, staged and ready, I would think then, that Kelly's murderer either traveled over that bridge on a regular basis  OR he lived in the general area of the lake or frequented the lake itself on a regular basis maybe for fishing or recreation.

There are other lakes closer to Standard and yet he chose Chin Lake. Why?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 02, 2009, 11:27:33 PM
Don't worry Aaron, I'm likely the only one who really believes that Arnold is a viable suspect. I can't help it after what I heard. If you had heard the same, what would you think??

Sorry I have to respond to the rope and block thing. Arnold spoke of wrapping the rope around Kelly before she was placed in the water. Ropes crisscrossed over top of her with the blocks attached to the ends of the rope. Then the blocks set on top of her so all he had to do was get her in the water and let the blocks fall off the sides...blocks are what 25 pounds or so? He said he got the blocks right there, they were being used as anchors for boats or a dock or something like that..Yes he talked about that, he knew that.."ropes crisscrossed" is what I recall him saying..

CCF.. you mention all the murders occuring prior to Kelly but omitt those right after..Barb Stoppel was her name..

Haunted..Why Chin lake?? I always wondered if maybe the carnival that Arnold and Barb Stoppel were travelling with the year before had stopped there?? Maybe to rest, water animals or something..Maybe this spot had a special meaning to him, maybe reminded him of Barb? Maybe the original target, the figure skater reminded him of Barb too?

There are things that could be checked out, the way the ropes were attached, the travel itinerary of the carnival, etc.. but if everyone discounts Arnold out of hand, no one looks far enough to find the evidence that could actually rule him in or out. The funeral home incident reports would provide a younger suspect description if that could be obtained..

Carry on ..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 03, 2009, 11:19:38 PM
Quote
I figure Chin Lakes was pre-planned by the killer

that is very interesting. this summer, I chatted with a bunch of folks who travel backroads all over Alberta (Photographers) and asked if any of them had been to this Chin Lakes. Nope. If they did, they don't remember. No one drives that highway unless you have a specific place you are heading too. It is not a place you just happen to drive too. and back in those days, it was probably a very bad highway and possibly gravel.

I agree. Whomever did this, must have been very familiar with the Taber area. This is a locals spot as there is nothing else south of chin Lakes. Few live in Wretham, it is more a less a 1 store town.

further, if a local person (Standard) had did this. You'd think disposing of the body in the nearby badlands would have been easier. No one might not ever discover the body there.

Here is a photo of the nearby badlands
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Drumheller_Badlands_2006.jpg/800px-Drumheller_Badlands_2006.jpg)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 04, 2009, 11:30:21 PM
I am assuming that the location where Kelly was found is providing the suspicion that the killer was from the Taber area? Is there more to it than just that?

This is a link to a decent little map showing the other reservoirs and roads the killer would have passed enroute to Chin..There were certainly alot of other choices, some a lot better if the intent was to keep Kelly from ever being found.

http://www.gowalleye.com/resmap.htm (http://www.gowalleye.com/resmap.htm)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 05, 2009, 08:42:51 AM
It's difficult to visualize the area, as is seen in the eyes of those familar to the place.  
I did, however, go to the link D1 provided;  it seems there's a lot of camping, fishing, and other activities prevalent to Chin Lakes....not so remote as I had thought!
Quote
Camp sites are available at the County campground on south shore on the east side of the bridge, as well you can book the Taber Kinsmen park on the south shore on the west side of the bridge for larger group type functions. The only concrete boat launch on the reservoir is located at the county campground which is opened from April 15 to mid October.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 07, 2009, 01:08:06 PM
Many have speculated that the suspect must have been from the Taber area because of where Kelly was found. I agree that if if he were from the Standard area, there were far better spots to have disposed of a body than Chin Lake. As previously stated where she was found was a locals area for Taber residents on a backroad to nowhere.

I am leaning towards the opposite, that this location actually indicates that the killer was totally unfamiliar with that area as well and was merely traveling backroads to avoid detection after the ten oclock phone call that Kelly made. Once she placed that call, her killer headed south away from the area towards the transcanada highway. He could have travelled the highway then to make his escape but chose not to and headed south on less travelled roads likely fearing that a search would be on. His vehicle had been seen. He headed south keeping to secondary roads. It was still relatively early and people were still moving around, there were likely enough vehicles even on the secondary roads at this time of night to keep him moving further along killing time and watching for a good spot. He kept going and moved onto lesser and lesser travelled roads as it got later. Finally late at night/ early A.m. he finds a deserted spot, he sees it right from the highway, Kelly is later found right there. I don't believe the killer was familiar with either the Standard or the Chin area. The manner in which Kelly was found, seems out of place for preplanning, only in 3 feet of water, so close to shore, in a public recreation area, so close to a highway. There is no reason to drive this far then to do so little to hide the body if there was any degree of planning whatsoever. The only other reason I can think of is some sort of twisted special sentimental attraction known only to the perpetrator, but I doubt that. He was  on the run with a body in his vehicle, a vehicle which he knew had been seen. He knew the search would be on.

Remove the viability of a Taber suspect where are we??
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2009, 09:03:21 PM
That very well could be... the fastest route to the border from Standard is this highway.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 09, 2009, 05:25:40 PM

I recall an earlier posting on this board (by someone else) that suggested the killer might have picked Chin Lakes because he lived nearby. Not only would this mean he was familiar with the area, but he might also have gotten a sick thrill by driving around/over the lake and knowing that his 'prize' was secure there.

I agree that there are definitely better ways to hide a body. But I wonder if he'd want to drag a body and two heavy concrete blocks all that way from the highway (200 plus yards). Which made me wonder if Chin Lakes was pre-planned as a dumping site (which would make sense if he was familiar with the area).

Maybe he didn't care if the body eventually got found. But he was darned lucky to have gotten away with this crime. He took a big risk driving up to Kelly's house. If anybody had been out walking around at that time, he/she might have been able to come up with a license plate number under police hypnosis. Luck, not just planning, played a big role in this jerk's 'success' (and I hesitate to even call it that).
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on September 09, 2009, 09:27:13 PM
Hi everyone,

With it being the long weekend and work thrown in the mix, I haven't had a whole lot of time to prepare any further posts since my initial one.  I'm also not one to post anything, anywhere unless I've had time to put some thought into it...so, sorry for another lengthy read, but I finally had some time to put another one together after thinking about a few things and reading most of the thread again.

Anyways...D1, I mean zero disrespect towards your belief as to why Terry Arnold may be the killer.  If I was in your shoes and was there first hand hearing what you heard, I would stick to my guns as well.  In addition to his young age at the time, there are two events in his story which is making me think he tried to take credit for her murder...afterall, Arnold was deemed to be a pathological liar by a psychologist.  That said, I am NOT saying I do not believe you, because I do believe you had this conversation with him.  I reread your "Confession" post (a couple of times!) and the first event  I'm bringing into question is how he claimed he had to wade into the water to dump her.  If his jacket/clothes were as soaked as he said they were to you, he had to have been into the water at least chest deep and for at least 5 minutes.  We all know how denim retains water & gets extremely heavy when it gets wet.  With your internal organs submerged in very cold water, my belief is Hypothermia would have set in very quickly, especially wearing a jean jacket.  It doesn't sound like he changed his clothes there at the site, so he would have stayed in them, promoting Hypothermia.  If it was still dark when he made the drop, the water would have been even colder thus dropping his core body temperature sooner.  If the outside temperature was around 5 degrees (according to the info I have it was), I'd assume the water would be about 3-4 degrees.  If it still had ice on the lake, I'd say 2-3 degrees.
  
The other event I question is his claim how people were showing up as he was making his way to his car (so it must have been in a parking lot).  He told you there were several people who may have saw him after he got out of the water, so it had to have been daybreak at least.  One person for sure saw him because he had to "bluff" his way by with the wet clothes he had on. Does anyone know if there are witness statements for this occurrence?  One would think the morning after the disappearance of a girl 2 hours north of Chin Lake hit the news (or after her discovery), someone would have reported seeing a very suspicious unknown dude who appeared to have just gotten out of a bone chilling lake.  Add to this, the specific area where she was found a few months later.  With him wearing denim, he would leave a trail of dripping water from the lake all the way to his car and as he walked past this older person; I'm sure they would have noticed his soaking wet clothes.  I would hope at least one of these people would have reported seeing this person and prepared a statement, but there doesn't seem to be.  I think these are two major flaws in his story and because of them, I just do not buy Arnold's story.  If this crime occurred sometime in late May through late August instead of the third week of April, I'd believe his story whole heartedly.  Up until then, it sounds like a true confession.  To me, it falls apart with his story of how he dumped her in the lake based upon the time of year it was.  
That being said... how she was tied to the blocks would be something only the police & the killer would know, so if Arnold's version of how he tied her matched to what is on police record, this drastically changes things and Arnold would quickly climb to #1 suspect.  

Also D1, just to clarify on why I make mention of the two missing girls who disappeared before Kelly's murder and nothing after hers, I didn't see these two mentioned anywhere else in this thread.  As they were prior to Kelly's murder, occured 4 hours south of Lethbridge and the girls had a similar appearance (brown hair, teenagers) to Kelly, I thought I'd make mention of them.  Some people believe Kelly's murder may have been the work of a serial killer and I saw some similarities between her & the other two girls.  Again, there is probably no connection to Kelly's case as remember Ted Bundy was active in the mid 70's and is already the prime suspect of another girl's murder in Montana.  For all we know, these other two I brought up could very well be victims of Ted Bundy as well.

Getting back to Kelly's case...my theory of a boat possibly being used is based soley on the fact there was a "significant" drop of the recorded water level exposing her body.  According to the site D1 posted, Chin Lake is pretty deep...70 feet at its max.  Looking at the picture on page 1 (with the flowers in the foreground) it seems the water gets deep in a hurry around the shores by the bridge.  Furthermore, in the "gowalleye.com" link provided by D1, I found this quote to be VERY interesting to further support the theory the killer was more than likely familiar with this lake in regards to where her body was found and where he tried to place it.  It is in the first paragraph: "The maximum water depth is about 21.3 meters (70 feet) found on the stretch west of the bridge".  With this newfound information, in my first post I theorized her killer may have scrambled to get out of the area, but I'm now leaning towards what so many of you think: Chin Lake was the pre-planned dump site from the get-go.  So, in June of 1981 just exactly how much did the water level drop...key word used in most reports is "significant", for a lake which is 70 feet deep.  

AaronP, you thought a minimum of 3 feet would be a minimum to hide a body. I think you need to go deeper than that for water, if you're looking to hide it long term.  I'm wondering if the water level may have dropped at least 10-15 feet that summer and the kids on the dirtbikes were ripping through the mud left from the decreasing waterline at the shore when they found her.  They may have only been 10-20 yards out from where the shore used to be but saw the body from 30 yards away.  It's too bad we don't know how far out her body was found, but I'm thinking she was probably dumped at minimum half of a football field from shore (50 yards or so) and the killer figured her body would sink to about 10-15 feet, maybe more.  Did he have the blocks & rope in his car? Probably.  If this crime was this well planned as believed, he would have had these with him or at his place, if he did live close by.  The suspect from Warner, what put him at the top of the town's list?  Did he match the description?  Did he have a history of stalking or flirting with teenage girls or girls who may have babysat for him?  I don't really care what his name is, just wondering what made him a suspect.  
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 11, 2009, 06:08:22 PM

The July 10, 1981, edition of the Alberta Report, p. 36, stated that Kelly's body had 'been dumped several yards from shore, and about 200 yards from the highway bridge'. The reason it was discovered was 'because the level of Chin Lake had dropped significantly in the past few weeks, leaving it exposed'.

I have no idea how deep the water was in that particular location in April 1981. However, I do not recall any news articles that commented on police speculation on how the body was dumped. No indication of any boat used, the depth of water, and so forth. Just that the body was discovered because an increased demand for irrigation water had caused the reservoir level to drop, exposing the corpse. I do not recall reading whether the water level had fully receded, leaving the body high and dry, or whether the water was still partially covering it. The news reports simply stated that the body had been left exposed. However, I'm sure the police know all about these details, but for whatever reason, they haven't been publicly disclosed (at least not to the best of my knowledge and in reputable news sources). So it's theoretical to discuss these issues, but of course, we must remember that these facts are already 'in', just not publicly disclosed per se.

I also do not recall any reputable news sources commenting that anyone observed the possible killer around Chin Lake.

It's a fact that Kelly's body was left in Chin Lake. The other comments on this board, including mine, speculating on how the body was dumped and whether the dumping site was planned in advance, are not facts - just speculative theories and nothing more.

As for that man in Warner alleged (but not publicly proven) to be Kelly's killer, it was only on this board that I read of this possibility. Such information was never published in the news media. Warner, however, is fairly close to Chin Lake. If (and I say 'if') that man was the true killer, it will be impossible to get any details out of him, as he was killed in 1991.

Cold cases such as this one can be solved, but the chance of solving it diminishes in proportion to how much time has elapsed since the crime. It's been over 28 years since Kelly Cook was murdered. The case may still be solved, but there's also a very big chance that it won't, at least not officially.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 11, 2009, 06:55:52 PM
I agree 100%, the chances of this case being officially solved are not very likely. Given the headway that the family of Alexandra Wiwcharuk have made in the past year in solving her murder from the early '60's, gives some hope to cold cases. There seems to be quite a bit of information in this case that is known, compared to a lot of cases: ie - body was found, people actually saw and talked to the murderer, there is a description and composite sketch, the mo was rather unique.  This is more than a lot of the unsolved cases on this board where there is no body, or no description and just a whole lot of unknown. I will keep hope that somewhere in the information and possible evidence there lies the clues to solve this case. Will that happen? The chances aren't good and even if it is solved, it is unlikely justice will be served because the murderer may already be dead, but answers are at least something. I shall continue to hope.

Speculation is right, that exactly what is on this board. It may not help in anyway other than maybe keeping Kelly's murder in the minds of some people and maybe someone will come across this that will have some info that will lead to solving this case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 11, 2009, 10:35:59 PM
I do try to think about this in ways that could prove the story told to me by Terry Arnold was false also. So I am fine with and welcome all that. I just don’t know whether I have portrayed the facts as told to me by Arnold in the proper fashion or with enough veracity to legitimize him as a suspect. I’d hate for him to be ruled out by my own failure to convey the message accurately and properly as opposed to just a lack of evidence. So I am heartened CCF to hear that some of these points are resonating.
Quote
That being said... how she was tied to the blocks would be something only the police & the killer would know, so if Arnold's version of how he tied her matched to what is on police record, this drastically changes things and Arnold would quickly climb to #1 suspect.

Excellent discussion on Chin Lake. Arnold said he drove back to Calgary in his underwear shaking uncontrollaby with the heater on full blast near hypothermic just as you say CCF. When mentioned how lucky he was not to have been pulled over by a cop, he turned that into saying maybe he would get lucky and it would be a female cop.

Re: planning to leave Kelly in the deep part of the lake. This just happens to be where the parking lot is located right off the highway. In the geographic map of Chin, there is a shelf that runs out aways. The deep part is just off the shelf. Kelly was found just before the deep part on the shelf. So although it appears there could be planning, it may also be an illusion by coincidence.

Arnold said it was morning twighlight as he was leaving. It was an older couple that he said had seen him. I don't know either if they took note of the incident, or would recall it months later when Kelly was found. Had to make mention of it as one of the things that could potentially coroberate at least part of his story. Arnold said he was surprised at how long it took for Kelly to be found and had even considered calling in a tip himself but never did.

I will always be struck by the fact that the other two cases he spoke of at the same time, he actually is the number 1 suspect. I also realize that it begins to sound like some conspiracy theory when you delve into the stories behind those other two victims. Arnold had a crush on one victim, Barb Stoppel. He did a fairly brazen and unusual thing, going right into the hospital after Barb was attacked wanting to see her. That’s why I keep pointing out the news report of the man going into the funeral home after Kelly was found wanting to see her body. I find this so unusual as to be almost an identifier. I understand the bragging about doing a murder by some types of people but I just don’t get that for this guy. He could just brag about his real victims, yet he took far more time talking about Kelly as if she were his greatest coup, when he was at his finest, most brazen and ballsy. He was revelling, reliving the moment, out there..

Denise Lapierre was also a telling moment in a sense. Despite being found dead almost right outside Arnolds back door, and the killers DNA found on her, Arnold once again escaped investigation.

Aaron, I don’t mean to make this sound so conspiratorial but I don’t know how else to point it out. These are just the facts behind some of the other cases Arnold has been named in. It is definitely a complicating factor to look at and I feel it should be kept in the back of ones mind when looking at Kelly’s case..

There is more that I could have said but have avoided. It was once asked why Kelly would be found with both her hands and feet bound. This has goes to figuring out where and when Kelly was killed. Back at the Hussar phone booth, most had speculated that Kelly was on the loose, had escaped, but was caught and killed there. That may not be. If you were one cold blooded murdering bastard who had just abducted a girl, would you rather be caught with a bound but alive girl, or with her body in your car as you drove along for hours and hours all the while knowing a search was on for your vehicle?

I too hope that in all the detail, that one little piece of evidence or info will surface to solve this murder at least to some degree of satisfaction. Below are some pictures of the figure skaters who were the initial targets of Kelly's killer. I have placed them beside Barb Stoppel's picture for comparison purposes. Maybe the killer was attracted to a specific look?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 12, 2009, 01:55:49 PM
There is little more that I wish to say about T Arnold that could lead to any real evidence that I can recall. I have added a few minor details to the previous post.

Re the Warner suspect.. There is a picture of him in the Lethbridge archives that bares a close resemblance to the sketch of the person wanted for Kelly's murder.

Locals describe a quiet small town man who never drank much or caused any trouble in the local bar.

The suspect in Kelly's murder was described as someone who communicated in an abrupt and arrogant manner.

Personally, I feel that the Warner guy is just the wrong type of person to have committed this crime, but thats just my opinion. In all fairness, I have posted his picture but this is as much as I wish to say about him without something more other than a resemblance and living close to where Kelly's body was found. That may be all it took back then to start the rumours and that may be all there is to it now.


best of luck
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 14, 2009, 01:11:36 AM
That guy on the left looks a lot like the suspect sketch. Wow.

Aaron is right though. Whoever did this took a huge risk. Driving right up to the house and hoping no one noticed him. And whomever did it, somehow lost her in Hussar which means he probably took another risk.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 14, 2009, 10:57:14 AM

Re: the man who went into the Calgary funeral home on the evening of July 2, 1981, and asked to see Kelly's body (but was turned away), it was pointed out by police that it was not public knowledge that Kelly's body was in that particular funeral home following the autopsy. Nor was there any mention made of a man going around to numerous funeral homes asking to see Kelly's body. Just that a man showed up at that particular funeral home, asked to see Kelly's body (and it was not common knowledge that Kelly's body was at that location), was turned away by staff, and left. That's all that was reported in the news media.

It is very puzzling in that somebody seemed to have inside knowledge of where Kelly's body was located at that particular time. I recall reading in the newspaper that police had asked the Cook family if they had any friends or relatives in Calgary who might have wanted to view the body, but the answer was negative.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 14, 2009, 11:35:44 AM
The funeral home incident is more puzzling the more you look at it for various reasons. The lack of any physical description or sketch of the person left behind afterwards is troubling..I believe there are answers still waiting to be found here..This is one of the few avenues left open that could yield some real evidence. Any one in Calgary have time to check out the news archives for that time period? I know reports of this incident were televised, so quite likely it was in all the newspapers too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 15, 2009, 11:49:48 PM
Here is an interesting message that was sent me anonymously

Quote
I had contacted law enforcement to look into the whereabouts of someone who my mother believed to be Kelly's killer.  She lived down the street from him in Calgary in the 1960's.  He had been convicted of the rape and murder of a little girl at or near the Calgary Zoo in the mid 1960's.  My mother, who is since deceased, said he fit the composite photos of Kelly's killer.  He would have been out of jail in time to have murdered her and was spotted in Brooks shortly after Kelly disappeared.  The police are leery of my information, as I don't know how to spell the perp's name(East Indian name, I believe) and also of the fact that the info is second hand(my mother died in 2002).  I grew up hearing this story and could recite it in my sleep.


If anyone is ever going to check into at the library, I'd be itneresting in seeing if there was such a case in Calgary. I'll ask some people I know, if they ever heard of a case like that who lived in Calgary during the 60's as I am sure that owuld have been big news.

Brooks, is about 180 kms SE of Standard and about 180 kms east of Chin Lake.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 16, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
More from the guest


Quote
My mother grew up near the Bridgeland area of Calgary.  This person in question had lured 2 little girls away from the zoo, one of them got away, he raped and murdered the other.  He was identified by the one little girl because he was wearing this knitted sweater with a horse on the back of it.  My mother moved out of Calgary in the fall of 1967, so this happened before then.  She had notified the police of her theory when Kelly went missing, but the police wanted to know too much about who she was.  She knew the perp could easily identify her and she was very afraid of him.  He was someone who had always been violent and when Mom was growing up she always had to make sure her  younger brothers stayed away from him as she was concerned for their safety.

Interesting. And they let this guy out? That is really sad. It would appear he served less then 15 years for that.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 16, 2009, 08:42:34 PM
I still maintain it's pretty creepy how the staff of the funeral home didn't get "all over" that guy - knowing Kelly had been murdered and this guy should not even have shown up.  I mean are those people stunned by all the death around them???? no offense but there's more to that part of the story than has been admitted... imo.  Any normal person would still be reeling from the murder of a child in their small town.... they should have been "out for blood"...excuse my expression! .... instead, they were too abnormal/un-observing  to be real????
I mean they should have still been angry enough to say "and who are you sir?" and with no proper response, they should have followed him....at least got a description of what he was driving.  This was a child brutally murdered and must have been familar, family-wise, to this funeral home staff..... that's small communities!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 16, 2009, 08:58:08 PM
I might be totally wrong here but I assume the funeral home was in Calgary. But you are right, a description could have/should have been given and maybe even was. Was the public given the info? Did it match the composite sketch? And how did this person, whomever he was, know that Kelly's body was in that particular funeral home?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 16, 2009, 10:39:08 PM
that is correct. calgary is an hour away from Standard, so the people there probably did not appreciate the crime as much as they would if this was in Standard. But it was at least enough of a concern to tell police.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 16, 2009, 10:41:21 PM
Another Post By Guest

Quote
The perp was not an adult when he committed the rape and murder of the Calgary girl.  From what Mom had told me he was sent some distance away to serve his sentence.  I don't know what the justice system did with young offenders(murderers!) in the 1960's.  I know he would have been somewhere around 16 or 17 when this happened.  Like I said he was a very violent person, my mother said she was very afraid of him, and of what he might do to her family.  She was the one who spotted him in Brooks, shortly after Kelly went missing, he was coming out of a hardware store downtown and she was across the street in a coffee shop with me.  When she stepped out to get a closer look at the car/license plate, he got into the car and drove off.  Mom contacted the Strathmore police department several times to tell them to look into his whereabouts and she even tried to contact Kelly's family to tell them about this person but I don't think she was able to reach them.  I'm hoping to get the person in charge of this case ( it was Andrew Johnson I spoke with) to meet with me in person so that we could discuss this further.  I will keep you posted.  Thanks so much for listening to all of this, I hope someday this can be resolved.

Well, the good news is, he is probably still alive then. And I am sure the calgary police are able to figure out his name. Therefore, if you did speak to someone, that lead will be processed. If it is him, I am glad you came forward and said something.

I happened to be in Brooks the other day. It is right near the highway that goes south to taber then Chin.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 18, 2009, 10:28:38 AM
Re: anonymous poster..
Quote
I'm hoping to get the person in charge of this case ( it was Andrew Johnson I spoke with) to meet with me in person so that we could discuss this further.

Even if the cop doesn't have time to speak to you in person, could you direct him back here to view this entire discussion. As noted, there are apparently a couple of other suspects besides your mother's friend..Keep us posted.

Why not get yourself a user id for this board? You are still just as anonymous.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 18, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
Quote
Why not get yourself a user id for this board? You are still just as anonymous.

That is true. you do not even need to use your real e-mail address... just make one up.

But I am oK with posting for your too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on September 18, 2009, 08:07:46 PM
...just to revert back to Chin Lake for a second, this is a major "what if", but what if the killer chose Chin Lake as the dumpsite to leave a subtle clue in regards to his own personal appearance?  Maybe I watch to much t.v., but if the killer was as arrogant & cocky as perceived to be, maybe he chose Chin Lake because of its name and he had something in common with the name.  It'd be almost as if to say "Hey cops, how's this for a clue...I have a distinguishable/noticeable chin and I dumped her in Chin Lake", almost a perverted practical joke.  Also, every time he looked in the mirror and looked at his chin, he'd be reminded of Chin Lake and Kelly.

Kind of left field-ish & bizarre, but maybe this is why he chose Chin Lake.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 19, 2009, 03:38:41 AM
Re: Chin and chin. Could be as good a reason as any in the mind of a crazed killer...One of T. Arnold's distinguishing features as noted in some witness statements was a prominent chin..Weird as it sounds, Arnold was likely weird enough to fit your chin theory..CCF. .
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 19, 2009, 08:42:47 AM
that's not all that "far out" a theory!  most serial killers are driven by some deep issue - usually something they could never accept, and end up transferring the self-hate of whatever it is - to those they feel notices whatever this "flaw they can't live with" is.   I'm no profiler, but maybe he was even "proud of his chin"...saw it as a "strong point....one of his best features".  One thing is for sure .....something always seemed to turn off his "objects of desire" ....enough for him to have "no patience" for their lack of attraction to him ....enough for him to kill in an instant.   imho
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 19, 2009, 03:13:07 PM
Almost like claiming the Lake as his own, a monument to himself and his twisted ego..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 03, 2009, 01:47:11 AM
Anonymous poster.. how did the meeting with the police go?

Found an old news article talking about Terry Arnold. The other two victims that Arnold confessed to at the same time as Kelly are both mentioned in the same article. Note the chin..If you copy and blow up the picture, it is quite noticable..

Note the closing sentence:
Quote
Arnold will remain in jail until at least 2019, when he's eligible for parole.

He was supposed to be locked away for a long time. How did he get out so early? He was back in B.C. by 1999 where he was charged and convicted of another girls murder. The crown stayed the charges and released him once again..Very strange..fishy fishy stuff. Good luck anonymous poster.. Hope you submitted this entire thread to the investigator ..Let us know how you made out
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/lapierre_denise000614.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/06/14/stoppel_suspect000614.html&usg=__4rH85s1yeJ_k-29qxLuQKA9wx78=&h=120&w=160&sz=7&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=XDGTuMHoCmoFCM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBarbara%2BStoppel%2Bphoto%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryCA%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/lapierre_denise000614.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/06/14/stoppel_suspect000614.html&usg=__4rH85s1yeJ_k-29qxLuQKA9wx78=&h=120&w=160&sz=7&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=XDGTuMHoCmoFCM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBarbara%2BStoppel%2Bphoto%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryCA%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN)

I will end here with Kelly's father's own words on the subject..
Quote
Kelly would have been 40 this year, and despite having happened so long ago, the case still generates two or three tips a year, police say.

Her parents, while they would like closure, said they have moved on from the ordeal as much as anyone can, as they had two other children to raise.

?Today, we would more or less like to know why,? Walter said.

?It?s getting up there and it?s getting harder and harder to solve ? I?m sure the guy hasn?t kept it to himself.?

? ? ? ? ?

Anyone with information about who might be responsible for the death of Kelly Cook is asked to call Cpl. Johnson at the Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section, at (403) 699-2611, or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on October 04, 2009, 05:14:00 PM

Just wanted to point out that Terry Arnold was only 18 years old in April 1981. The police composite sketch, based on eyewitness accounts under hypnosis, described the suspect as being in his 30s or 40s. I know that eyewitness accounts aren't always accurate, but I doubt the police would keep describing the suspect as being a mature man, after all these years, if they weren't sure. I figure the police know a lot more about this case than anybody on this board (including myself). No disrespect to anyone - I'm just pointing out this particular fact, that's all.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 04, 2009, 10:05:51 PM
I am in complete agreement with you Aaron P. You have correctly identified the age discrepancy as the only remaining sticking point to T. Arnold being properly investigated for the murder of Kelly Cook..

I just happened to have been in Calgary when the funeral home incident took place. Back at the time there were very few young girls being murdered and the funeral home employees took it very seriously and personal. They knew the significance of the event and took note in extreme detail. They all provided the same suspect description.. a young man, late teens, early twenties..wearing a blue jean jacket if I remember correctly..One employee, a young man even followed him out of the parking lot and around the corner. It was all over the news, interviews and much discussion.. afterall no one had been arrested yet and this was the most dastardly BRAZEN murder anyone had ever heard of.. Everyone wanted this guy caught. Calgary was caught up in all that, not just Standard.

What followed next would put the pieces in place to render this case legally unsolvable. The police ordered the funeral home employees to shut up..and for the news to quit reporting on the new description..The young man who had followed the suspect from the funeral home defied the order and did a TV interview in which he reiterated the changed description and was adamant that the guy was considerably younger than earlier reports. The news aired the interview one time only and then never said anything about it again. The young man said they'd have to kill him to shut him up, that's how strongly he felt about it.

One of the questions the reporters were asking before they fell silent was whether the funeral home suspect and the man in the suspect sketch were one of the same. The answer was that they bore enough similarities to have been the same person except for the personal and subjective guess at the age.

Pretty strange stuff and highly unusual at the time. The police have their ways and means of justifying whatever they chose to present or withhold much like a court does with a publication ban on evidence disclosure..The police argument for this situation would be that you can't very well have two suspect descriptions floating around or you have killed your chances for a conviction should an arrest occur. Whichever suspect was charged, he would use the other description as his excuse and alibi..

Who made the determination for which suspect description the police would go with would be very interesting to know. Thomas Sophonow would like to hear that information too. It's like this everywhere you look in regards to T. Arnold and anyone of his multiple victims..Arnold was a Police Informant and maybe a whole lot more than that, way beyond what most of us know anything about or can even imagine. Aaron is right, the Police surely know a whole lot more about this murder than they will ever care to admit.

As far as using hypnosis on witnesses, it cuts both ways. The Milgaard inquiry briefly touched on the subject. How could two witnesses come up with the same (false) story indepedently, one apparently even while under hypnosis conducted by the police . Milgaard was convicted as a result. It was many years later before DNA cleared his name. The hyposis aspect was questioned in the inquiry but not pursued..Oh yea,..the real killer who was eventually convicted of the crime, just happened to have been another RCMP informant.
see Larry Fisher- http://rcmpsnitches.blogspot.com/ (http://rcmpsnitches.blogspot.com/)

The inquiry noted the involvement of one particular cop who orchestrated the false conviction..
Quote
there was a cover-up (funny that Larry Fisher was never tried in Saskatoon for his rape convictions and that the same cop who handled the Fisher rapes was working on the Milgaard case. What a coincidence! But not a cover-up, of course.)
http://www.milgaardinquiry.blogspot.com/ (http://www.milgaardinquiry.blogspot.com/)

This is tough stuff for the average person to get their head around, especially Police deliberately obstructing the murder investigation of children or young girls? Just couldn't be this is Canada.. Eight year old Mindy Tran would never have believed it either until the police washed the DNA left by her murderer from her clothes..Sure just a simple little mistake made by a 26 year veteran RCMP Sgt. Ohh yea, the only suspect.. just happened to be another RCMP informant, his handler.. the same SGT. who ordered the clothes washed..

Granted this is not normal procedure, but look, nothing about T. Arnold is normal from start to finish..Look at the other victims stories, justice obstructed in all by one means or another. Why not Kelly too?? Perhaps our own beliefs are contributing to the ongoing obstruction as well?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on October 05, 2009, 10:42:00 AM
Quote
Look at the other victims stories, justice obstructed in all by one means or another. Why not Kelly too?? Perhaps our own beliefs are contributing to the obstruction as well?
And that just about says it all - so far as I'm concerned!  ....protected informants getting away with "killing at will", doing and dealing drugs, stealing, plundering, raping, beating.... you name it. 
This forum alone contains severals examples of just that!
The revolving doors of prisons, for certain people, aided by prosecutors and judges (open your eyes folks) - it's in the news all the time.   >:(
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 05, 2009, 11:33:41 AM
I don't blame people for not believing this sort of thing is possible. Unless you have had some sort of personal experience with something like this, it is extremely hard to believe that it takes place. Most wish to believe that it is an anomaly attributed to maybe a few bad cops or to some honest mistakes made along the way. If and when someone finally sees through the smoke and mirrors, its an eye opening moment that changes people in multiple ways forever. You question things in ways you never would before. Trust becomes a word only other people use.

The Standard News gently mentioned the varying suspect descriptions at the time of Kelly's funeral..while praising the efforts of the Police members involved..

Quote from the Standard News in which the Standard RCMP acknowledged:
Quote
descriptions have varied

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on October 05, 2009, 11:47:04 AM
sounds like the guy who killed Barb Stoppel(sp.)? to me ....wait a minute....Arnold killed her too??? ::)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 05, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
An important part of the trail leading to the ah ha moment. All the while knowing of the striking similarities between the suspect sketch in Barb Stoppel's murder and T. Arnold  the police "chose" to charge and try Sophonow three times for this murder instead of investigating Arnold. Arnold lived just down the block from where Barb worked and admitted to having a crush on her. Sophonow was a stranger merely visiting from out of town and had been out dropping off Christmas gifts at the childrens hospital that afternoon. The police coached witness testimony, obstructed DNA testing, and secretly removed evidence, all of which could have saved Sophonow years of grief. Of course, that would also have implicated T. Arnold ..Nice job..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on October 05, 2009, 05:17:24 PM
Sap; I don't know about others here...but what I've read on "Arnold" is very much the same as what I read on "Shannon Murrin".  ....and Murrin gets off with so much because he is a "protected informant"...... I personally think that just cop talk for "he's got big info. stashed away safe on someone in power... like a cops for instance".  
Terry Arnold seems to have the same kind of powerful hold and means of getting away with murder.  

All one has to do is google those names and figure it out for yourself.  
 
I can really see Arnold as a "most likely" for Kelly's murder.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 05, 2009, 06:13:24 PM
There's the million dollar question..If we look we can easily see who was involved, what they did, when they did it, and how they did it. Why is a complex question..my experience with this tells me that even if we were told why, it would be hard to believe..Whyever it was, it started early on and lasted a lifetime..Arnold was incarcerated while still a juvenile..it may have begun as far back as that..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on October 06, 2009, 03:01:26 AM
There's the million dollar question..If we look we can easily see who was involved, what they did, when they did it, and how they did it. Why is a complex question..my experience with this tells me that even if we were told why, it would be hard to believe..Whyever it was, it started early on and lasted a lifetime..Arnold was incarcerated while still a juvenile..it may have begun as far back as that..

I see your million, and I raise you to a two million dollar question ;)...is there any evidence or sightings placing Arnold in southern Alberta at the time of Kelly's disappearance & murder, besides his own account which he relayed to you (D1)?  I've scoured this thread for this significant piece of information and no one seems to know.  There has got to be someone out there who can verify if he was in or near the Calgary and Strathmore area for a consecutive amount of time in the late winter months and the dates leading up to & including the day Kelly was murdered (the pre-planning and the phonecalls to girl "A").  If it was an old employer, an ex-girlfriend, a relative or a drinking buddy, someone knows if Arnold was in southern Alberta or not at this time.


Almost like claiming the Lake as his own, a monument to himself and his twisted ego..

Chin Lake

If Chin Lake meant something, if it was an identifier somehow, as in the killer had a big chin or a small chin or a chin he felt was worthy of Eastwood himself, Chin means something.

If Chin means something, then the name he chose as an alias must also mean something.

Bill Christenson or Christensen

son of a Christian

a Chris Chin Son?

Just noticed how much Chin fits into his alias last name. I feel, personally, my opinion, is the name he chose to use is significant in some way, not just a name he picked, but one he chose for a reason.


...WOW, you are awesome!!  How you came up with this "play on words" is unbelievable with the use of "Chris Chin Son" and "Christensen"...just had to give you recognition for this and two thumbs up.  Perhaps we're on to something here with this shot in the dark?

To throw another name out there as a potential suspect, has anyone ever considered John Martin Crawford?  He is currently serving three life sentences for the murders of at least four aborginal women in Saskatoon and is suspected in at least two other murders there.  On the surface, he may not seem a viable suspect for Kelly's murder as his targets were Aborginal women who were thought to be involved in the sex trade.  What made me think of him as a potential suspect, is his known first victim was Mary Jane Serloin, whom he murdered in December of 1981 (8 months after Kelly).  Her murder occurred in Lethbridge as this is what caught my attention, although he was just 19 at the time.  He did go to prison for this murder, but was released in 1987; he served his sentence in the P.A. Pen where he met his future accomplice, Bill Corrigan for the Saskatoon murders.  As Mary Jane was also an Aborginal woman, Kelly's case doesn't fit with his M.O. as Kelly was caucasian, but before he is dismissed as a suspect, hear me out.  As the original target was possibly seen in the Strathmore paper a few months prior, I am wondering if she was of Aboriginal decent and seeing her in her figure skating outfit caught his interest.  We know the rest of the events, but what if Kelly is actually Crawford's first victim?  We can place him in southern Alberta in December of 1981 so how long was there?  He may have been familiar with Chin Lake as it is a short drive from Lethbridge as well.  I don't want to seem to be grasping at straws, but the guy is a convicted serial killer who was in southern Alberta in 1981.

Another thing to note, is in this excerpt in Chapter 1 taken from Warren Goulding's book "Just Another Indian"
  http://www.fitzhenry.ca/spreads/JAIchapter1.htm.  It states Crawford's mother, Victoria Crawford operated somewhat of a half-way house for men in Saskatoon in the 80's.  Where I am going with this is this:  I stated in my first post I am originally from Saskatchewan, more specifically- N.E. of Saskatoon.  I attended college in Lethbridge from 1998-2000.  When I went home to visit my folks, the route I took was from Lethbridge to Taber, up Highway 36 to Highway 9, to Oyen and from there across to Saskatoon as this was the shortest route.  Most of the guys I knew who attended LCC who were from the Saskatoon area took this exact same route instead of going through Medicine Hat, so it is a known route from Lethbridge to Saskatoon. Let's say it was Crawford...as he was in Lethbridge in 1981, he could have been familiar with this exact route and more importantly, Highway 36 which is the assumed route Kelly's killer took to Chin Lake.  Was he living or straying in the Calgary & Strathmore area in the late winter/ early spring of 1981 prior to moving to Lethbridge?  It would be interesting to find a timeline of his movements and whereabouts early that year...I tried to find information on the 'net, but surprisingly, there is little information about this guy-which I find bizarre.

Here is a picture of Crawford in custody (not sure what year, in the 90's anyways)...now compare him to the composite and take away the moustache.  Looks pretty similar to me, although it's hard to say what he looked like at 19.  As with Arnold, everyone thought he looked much older than he was, perhaps this is the same case with Crawford.
http://www.freewebs.com/missingcanadians/crawford.jpg

All this said, I intend to buy Warren Goulding's "Just Another Indian" as it is about Crawford and his victims.  Hopefully there is some information in there in regards to his movements.
 

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on October 06, 2009, 07:41:48 AM
Wow CCF .....seem the cops could have looked in a few directions .... yet they target one guy; and couldn't even make it stick (they imprisoned and took away a chunk of the wrong man's life) .... this once again, for me, points to Arnold .... because their deliberate manipulation of evidence leans toward keeping someone else "on the loose".
....but clearly, your guy is also a "good possible" .... wonder was he another one of those protected informants with "the goods on the big guys".
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 06, 2009, 12:31:58 PM
Sorry CCF, i can't take credit for the play on words, Chris chin son..Des came up with that. I've pondered the significance aspect but drew blanks.

re Arnold;
Quote
There has got to be someone out there who can verify if he was in or near the Calgary and Strathmore area for a consecutive amount of time in the late winter months and the dates leading up to & including the day Kelly was murdered (the pre-planning and the phonecalls to girl "A").  If it was an old employer, an ex-girlfriend, a relative or a drinking buddy, someone knows if Arnold was in southern Alberta or not at this time.

Well there quite likely was a list of people who knew Arnold was around Calgary at the time..He had lived there just prior to Kelly's murder and he claimed that he was back dropping off his bosses car at the time of the murder.
He was living with his mother at the time, had either a girlfriend or an ex in the vicinity, relatives, and a boss who would have to know that he was around. He said he returned to Winnipeg by bus. The funeral home employees made a very good sketch. So yes, it could have been and may still be verifiable. Duly noted though that these people may have talked with the police but encountered the same situation as did the funeral home employee's. This was something that was big news at the time..someone, a relative of Kelly's or ?? would recall the employee's being silenced. There are people named in earlier posts and articles on here who would know about that.

For me, the discussion on hypothermia convinced me beyond a doubt that Arnold knew what he was talking about. He described the exact condition without having a word for it. There was more he said about why and where he placed Kelly's body that fits with the evidence..He was the only one as far as I know to confess in great detail, right down to the manner in which the ropes were attached.. He wears the same type glasses, had short hair, and was brazen enough to pull this off. He went on to committ multiple murders afterwards, some equally if not more brazen..His next victim Barb bore a resemblance to the skaters originally targetted in Kelly's murder. Farah fawcett type white girls..

So all well and good to explore other possible suspects CCf, but to be viable there would at least have to be more to implicate them than Arnold. My mind has had enough and I am no longer open to multiple endless possibilities. Apologies ..Carry on and make your case though, anonymous poster was supposed to be doing the same with a suspect his mother thought looked like the sketch. 

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on October 06, 2009, 05:17:44 PM
Sorry CCF, i can't take credit for the play on words, Chris chin son..Des came up with that. I've pondered the significance aspect but drew blanks.

re Arnold;
Quote
There has got to be someone out there who can verify if he was in or near the Calgary and Strathmore area for a consecutive amount of time in the late winter months and the dates leading up to & including the day Kelly was murdered (the pre-planning and the phonecalls to girl "A").  If it was an old employer, an ex-girlfriend, a relative or a drinking buddy, someone knows if Arnold was in southern Alberta or not at this time.

Well there quite likely was a list of people who knew Arnold was around Calgary at the time..He had lived there just prior to Kelly's murder and he claimed that he was back dropping off his bosses car at the time of the murder.
He was living with his mother at the time, had either a girlfriend or an ex in the vicinity, relatives, and a boss who would have to know that he was around. He said he returned to Winnipeg by bus. The funeral home employees made a very good sketch. So yes, it could have been and may still be verifiable. Duly noted though that these people may have talked with the police but encountered the same situation as did the funeral home employee's. This was something that was big news at the time..someone, a relative of Kelly's or ?? would recall the employee's being silenced. There are people named in earlier posts and articles on here who would know about that.

For me, the discussion on hypothermia convinced me beyond a doubt that Arnold knew what he was talking about. He described the exact condition without having a word for it. There was more he said about why and where he placed Kelly's body that fits with the evidence..He was the only one as far as I know to confess in great detail, right down to the manner in which the ropes were attached.. He wears the same type glasses, had short hair, and was brazen enough to pull this off. He went on to committ multiple murders afterwards, some equally if not more brazen..His next victim Barb bore a resemblance to the skaters originally targetted in Kelly's murder. Farah fawcett type white girls..

So all well and good to explore other possible suspects CCf, but to be viable there would at least have to be more to implicate them than Arnold. My mind has had enough and I am no longer open to multiple endless possibilities. Apologies ..Carry on and make your case though, anonymous poster was supposed to be doing the same with a suspect his mother thought looked like the sketch. 




Just to clear the air, I am not saying Crawford should be bumped to the suspect list.  He just happened to be in Lethbridge in 1981 when he committed his first murder.  I found this quite interesting & coincidental so I thought why not mention him.  Even I am willing to to admit, his M.O. & most importantly, his specific targets of Aboriginal women seem to not fit into this case...he just happens to be a convicted serial killer who committed his first murder 20 miles down the road from the exact location where Kelly's body was found; that said, I do not know if he was in southern Alberta earlier in the year.  Also, thanks for specifying the intended targets basic appearance.  I have no idea who the intended target is or what she looked like, but as you put it...apparently she had the 'Farrah Faucet' look to her.  If this is the case, then this is probably not the work of Crawford, BUT he should not be fully eliminated as a candidate for POI-at least not yet.  Is it coincidence this all happened in same year? Probably is.  Is it coincidence Crawford's appearance could also fit into the composite sketch?  Some may think so.  Should he be eliminated as a potential POI?  Not until there is some sort of credible evidence saying he was not in the area. 

Another thing to note is how different the bodies of their victims were located.  Crawford is known for hiding bodies in secluded areas, whereas 2 of the 3 murders Arnold is suspected in, the bodies were left out in the open waiting to be found (I could not find any information where Christine Browne's body was found).  Since he lived so close to where Stoppel worked, one would think why he would not wait until she was leaving work and grab her and take her somewhere secluded instead of making such a spectacle of it by killing her right in the store and leaving scores of witnesses.  Same can be said about Denise Laperierre in Calgary, as her body was left exposed out in the open in an alley way with no attempt to hide her body. 

One other thing I question is why Arnold has not been at least named a POI in Kelly's homicide.  He has been clearly named as a suspect in a few other murders (Laperriere, Stoppel, Ferguson) and the FBI have him as a person of interest in murders down in the U.S.A., so why has his name never popped up in this case, aside from this forum?  Perhaps he has a verified alibi for his whereabouts the night Kelly disappeared, which we the public, are not privied to with this information.  I am not trying to change you or anyone's mind here, all I'm saying is by keeping your options open, you don't get caught up in 'tunnel vision' by being so focused on one person (like the police did with Sophonow).  There certainly are some things which could seem to implicate Arnold, but in my view, there are a lot of things which do not implicate him as well.  Same can be said with Crawford, but that doesn't make him an automatic suspect in my view and possibly anyone else's...again, I just thought what are the chances of having a convicted serial killer in the same area and potentially there throughout the entire same year.  Stranger things have happened...


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on October 07, 2009, 01:13:18 AM
Hey how did you get access to the Standard Newspaper? I'd sure like to read up on the stories from that time.

Is it available at the Strathmore Library?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on October 07, 2009, 01:28:40 AM
I've been doing some reading about this Arnold guy. There is some very odd things surrounding his life and how things always seemed to go his way.

I'll keep adding as I find more, in the meantime, I am making a new thread dedicated to him, so taht if any one does a google search, soon his name will bring them to this site.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.0.html

I hope we can get some photos of the guy from the 80's.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 07, 2009, 03:25:40 AM
Not disagreeing with everyone else keeping an open mind CCF..I have just reached a point in myself where I can no longer honestly do it in this case. There is a difference between people who come on here to add pieces of info into the puzzle as a witness and those who are here reading watching and debating. Its kind of a seeing is believing thing.. .. Hearing a confession, unsolicited, unforced, from a guy who spoke of two other murders in the same breath, well it’s maybe different if you were there, he is officially named as the prime suspect in both the other two murders.

When I put it all together in my mind about Arnold, I don’t see pieces that don’t fit, I see missing pieces. There are people out there who could fill them in and confirm things like the funeral home incident.. it’s highly significant. Maybe the employee’s could identify Arnold from a picture? Arnold’s boss, maybe he could still be found and his vehicle identified.. There are likely voice recordings of Arnold still existing with the RCMP; maybe the skater could recognize his voice? A proper investigation would really be required to get anywhere but that never gets done if Arnold is never entertained as a viable suspect.

For me when I read things like what was written about the route from lethbridge that goes past Chin, I think to myself, I bet the fair that Arnold worked for went through there the year before and Arnold had seen and been to Chin before Kelly.. You see, not really an open mind and I can’t honestly deviate from Arnold while there are still so many unanswered questions..
Quote
Arnold had returned to Winnipeg alone in January 1981, and continued to hold odd jobs. That summer, he worked at the Red River Exhibition, following in the footsteps of his half-brothers.
found at: http://www.mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm)

As for why he was never been named as a poi for Kelly, I can’t answer for that.. It took pretty well a decade for the police to acknowledge him as a suspect in Barb Stoppel’s murder and that only after three trials for Sophonow, then the Association for the Wrongfully Convicted getting involved followed by a public inquiry by justice Cory.  Denise Laperierre, well she was found virtually on Arnolds back door step and there was no choice but to look at him then, (never charged mind you)  ....The FBI stuff, it only surfaced publicly after his death as far as I can see..

You ask why has Arnold not been discussed on other sites in regard to Kelly? Well I for one have never done so, the other sites didn’t seem so accommodating and this is a more Canadian site with regional divisions and local interest..I was really the only one here saying this about Arnold and only because of what I heard. I tried to see if he could be ruled out but I did not find that so I kept searching for what could confirm him as Kelly’s killer and this conversation ensued..

Re:
Quote
Perhaps he has a verified alibi for his whereabouts the night Kelly disappeared, which we the public, are not privied to with this information.

Anything’s possible, apparently we aren’t even privy to knowing about any suspect under the age of thirty years old either..


I found this site most valuable for debate and great information, and am grateful for all the help from multiple people in fleshing out the story behind  T. Arnold..I had hoped the evidence would be conclusive if identified and searched out. But I am neither a family member nor Law Enforcement and have no rights or ability to do any thing beyond what has been discussed here. I have said my piece and it’s up to others with more personal interests to pursue and do as they wish with that information now.

As far as other suspects and tunnel vision and all that goes. I’m neither judge nor jury, I am merely a witness who came here to provide information about one suspect..I saw how Arnold had been ruled out and somehow avoided justice in both the other murders he confessed to and I knew it was not likely to be easy to get any further with Kelly. Neither I nor anyone else would know where or what to look for as far as evidence goes aside from this discussion. If anyone wants they can independently pursue those pieces now.. For me, I suspect the RCMP already know the answers, if not, they could do a proper investigation starting with a search of their own records for why the funeral home employees and the media were silenced on that day long ago..

The Standard News items were compliments of several people who made calls and searched through archives. Not sure of the procedure they followed..

But do carry on everyone, someone has to keep open minded..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on October 07, 2009, 07:01:28 PM

For those of you convinced you know who Kelly Cook's killer really is, here's as per the RCMP Cold Files website on this particular homicide:

If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.


There's a hefty reward offered to the person who can provide the evidence needed to solve this case. $100,000 or so is certainly a tempting amount. So don't hesitate! See if you can collect your reward.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 07, 2009, 08:46:43 PM
Not interested in the reward, but by all means please send this in to the RCMP. If they have any interest in pursuing this, I'm sure they can figure out how to contact me.. I have no problem with saying all of this to them. However if their mandate is still as has been demonstrated in Stoppel, Laperierre, Browne etc..spare me..!!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 09, 2009, 01:08:00 PM
Barb Stoppel provides the most information about Arnold and how he got away with murder. Kelly was the last murder of a young girl in all of Western Canada before Barb. Granted there is little in the way of evidence yet, but Arnold has never been investigated for Kelly's murder yet either. Perhaps she was Arnold's first victim and possibly she will be the last to be identified as such. An investigation is long overdue..The information about the investigation on Barb Stoppel is quite telling..see Arnold..the secret report
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg29243.html#msg29243 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg29243.html#msg29243)

Quote
quote from Winnipeg police officer.

Quote
"I do not believe that I was allowed to do my job. Further, both Barbara Stoppel and her family have not been served well

And maybe the same can be said for Kelly and her family..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 12, 2009, 05:42:33 PM

The missing description of the funeral home suspect is now being recognized as an indicator of something highly unusual. The fact that it is missing tells its own story, there are few legitimate excuses for the decription to have been silenced at the time and fewer yet for that description to be removed from the archives afterwards. The informant laws spoken of on Arnold's thread are one of the few legal and binding means there are to accomplish this. Does anyone really believe that there would be no description of that suspect given at the time or left behind afterwards?

Various attempts have been made to find a copy of those original reports without drawing attention to why. The articles obtained from the Standard news came by way of this means. One of our unsolved members, debbiec, contacted the paper by phone and requested the original news articles and pictures of the skaters from the time. The person she spoke with was very helpful and in short order located a variety of articles and pictures. The contact person at the paper said they would be copied and sent to us right away. What happened afterwards caused suspicion among us at the time. The pictures and articles took weeks to arrive after several delays with differing excuses. When they did arrive, it was some of the missing information that once again generated suspicion. Kelly's funeral was discussed but the strange incident at the funeral home and the suspect's description were missing. The skaters pictures were attached with names of the princesses and other participants but missing was the queen's name, the girl who was originally targetted by Kelly's killer. That particular combination of missing information is suspicious in itself and indicative of the same law being employed as discussed on Arnold's thread.. 

The discussion going on about T. Arnold is at-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg29313/boardseen.html#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg29313/boardseen.html#new)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on October 13, 2009, 01:34:14 AM
I can't imagine that there would be no description of the man that attended the funeral home given at the time, or left behind afterwards. There were not a lot of young girls being murdered at the time and I'm sure that every employee at the funeral home was aware that Kelly had been. Having someone walk in demanding to see the body would be immediate cause for alarm. As D1 said, he was in Calgary at the time this incident took place and remembers it being all over the news. Interviews and a lot of discussion. All the employees providing the same description, in detail. This was a BIG deal......so what happened to the description of the man given by all those witnesses?

I decided to try and obtain a copy of the original report, so earlier this year I made a call to the Strathmore Standard. I was immediately impressed with the person that I got on the phone. Found the person to be very helpful and willing to send me pictures of the skaters and original news articles right away. We had discussed what would be sent during our phone conversation, as the person looked through the papers and talked to me at the same time. Then we waited....Approximately two weeks later I contacted the person again to ask about the articles and was again told that they would be sent right away. About a week later we received an email apologizing for the fact that the articles had still not been sent. At this point we were starting to wonder if we would ever receive them. Finally, after another week, we received the articles and some pictures of the skaters. Kelly's funeral writeup was there but no mention at all of the incident at the funeral home and no description of the man. Also noticeably absent was the name of the queen. It seemed odd to us that her name was not there while the names of both princesses and several other participants were. In the end we were left to question not only the length of time it took for us to receive anything, but also the fact that some of the most pertinent information was missing.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: need too on October 16, 2009, 11:18:32 AM
 
Just wondering if someone can bring up the picture of Gerard John Baumgarte, and put it beside the sketch of the first picture. Intrested on anyones thought to GJB. There is alot of similarities. The sketch, minus the glasses is almost exact. His age, build and height would be approximately right as well. Red Deer is only 1 1/2 hour from standard. If he worked in the area or traveled through the area he would know it well in know time. I have live in standard for a while now and I can tell you first hand the people out here are very trustting, kind and welcoming into the community. Anyone to come into this town as in any town and do something so horrible has to have really thought this crime through. To get away with it for as long as he has its time for justice.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on October 16, 2009, 11:40:17 AM
Need too:

I recall reading the articles on that crime earlier this year. Some of the articles referenced Kelly's murder while reviewing past unsolveds in the area. Do you have any links to an actual photo of him? On line I found a court sketch of him, of his profile which is difficult to make any conclusions. An article also indicates he has relatives in Lethbridge, which is not too far away from Chin Lake. Not sure if that was the case in 1981, or where he was living in 1981. The articles say he is approx 56 years old so that would have made him approx 28 in 1981.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on October 16, 2009, 01:33:52 PM
This is the only image I could find of him. A drawing. And who knows where he lived in 1981.


(http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090303/160_baumgarte_090202.jpg)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on October 24, 2009, 12:15:43 AM
Description of a killer..
from Roberta Fergusson- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,56.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,56.0.html)
Quote
The witness described the man in the car as average height, with blond or light brown hair and a prominent jaw

That suspect- Terry Arnold

Once again, question arise of a hidden meaning behind Chin lake.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jennyrose234 on January 26, 2010, 08:49:21 PM
I was reading up on the Kelly cook case, a story that was passed on to me by an RCMP officer that had helped with the investigation when i was in elementary school about 10 yrs after her death i guess to try and protect girls from falling for the same rouge the killer had used on her, i live in Taber about 20Min's away from the chin reservoir. anyways i was reading everyones blogs on who they think might have been the killer and decided to ask my dad some questions. He told me at the time there was a man that lived in Warner that the RCMP believed to be the killer but without enough evidence could not prove or convict him he gave me a name but I'm not sure if that would get me into trouble for slander or something my dad said he was a suspect and that he had gone to school with my uncle that everyone thought it was him but couldn't prove it I'm not sure where he resides now but I'm sure if the RCMP had him as a suspect they and it still being an ongoing investigation they know where he is.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 26, 2010, 08:53:04 PM
Thanks for the message. Yes we have had another person tell us about taht Warner guy. He has been dead since 1991. If that is the suspect, I guess they'll never prove it.

I am going to be in warner this spring, I am going to ask around and ask some locals about that.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jennyrose234 on January 27, 2010, 01:43:40 PM
did you want his name because the man im talking about my dad says is still alive. i can email it to you if ud like.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 27, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
YES!

Oh please do send it to me. I am the admin here on the site so I will keep is a secret, only sharing it with relavant people. do you know how to use private messages?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 28, 2010, 08:03:05 PM

Is that Warner suspect alive or dead? It's been reported that he died in a violent altercation in 1991, but now it's reported that he's still alive. Which is the true story?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on January 28, 2010, 08:53:00 PM
It appears that there are two different men being referenced. In each case it appears to be rumor and speculation by locals and by the sounds of it no evidence the RCMP were able to obtain. In each case it would be very interesting to know what made local people feel either man would make a viable suspect, so far we don't have that. The RCMP likely know whatever the reasons were or are for either local man to have been suspected.

jennyrose234, without divulging information publicly of this person's identity, are you able to give any indication as to what reason locals had/have to suspect this individual?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on January 29, 2010, 04:18:24 PM

Is that Warner suspect alive or dead? It's been reported that he died in a violent altercation in 1991, but now it's reported that he's still alive. Which is the true story?


Do I detect an underlying tone in the above quote? Obviously no one knows what the true story is. You have written numerous posts on this thread AaronP, and seem to know as much about it as anyone else, so what is your take on that? To me it appears that people are simply putting things out there for consideration. This case remains unsolved and if and until it is, it is important to be open minded enough to allow every possible scenario and every opinion and idea that anyone has to offer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 29, 2010, 08:41:36 PM

This is the first I have heard that the Warner suspect is alive. It was only on this board that I heard about such a rumor involving a suspect in Warner at all. But I have no idea if that particular man was responsible or not. There was no hostility in my question - it was simply a question. But I will add that I'm sure the police know way more about this case - and potential suspects - than anyone who's posted on this board, myself included. I can't imagine any law enforcement officer is trolling this site looking for clues. That's not to insult anyone on this board - it's just to point out that anyone posting here (including myself) knows far less about this case than the police.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on January 29, 2010, 11:00:48 PM

My apologies AaronP, if I mistook the tone of your post. I have to say, that to me, it did sound quite abrasive. Apparently that was not your intent.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on January 30, 2010, 09:37:12 AM
Quote
I can't imagine any law enforcement officer is trolling this site looking for clues. That's not to insult anyone on this board

I would not discount the possibility that we have members of law enforcement looking at this site. In fact, it would seem possible to me that we have people from both sides of the law checking in.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 09, 2010, 12:35:46 AM
I never did hear back from the poster, by change did anyone here get a message from her?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 11, 2010, 01:58:27 AM
I did not get an e-mali back from her yet. Gee whiz I am so curious. I'm going to be in Warner this spring!!!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on March 15, 2010, 10:46:02 PM
In watching the documentary on the cold case for Sharin' Morningstar Keenan from 1983 I noticed a couple of things. Prior to abducting and murdering Sharin' (the police say the case is solved in that his dna was found etc, so I am not using 'alleged' based on this from the documentary) Dennis Melvyn Howe had been in and out of prison for mulitple offenses. Appears a lot had to do with fraud, forgery etc. He had several aliases. He was born in or around 1940. It states he had a charge of unlawful confinement in 1969 or there abouts and also for sexual assault on a female. I am not certain the confinement charge and assault charge related to the same victim or different. They did specify that Howe would approach his victims either with 'needing directions' or 'looking for a babysitter'. The babysitter part made me think of Kelly's case, as it was a babysitter that her perpetrator used as his lure. The physical and age description of Howe in 1983 is not too dissimilar from the description of Kelly's perpetrator in 1981. Kelly's perpetrator was described as having a swarthy complexion, which describes Howe. He grew up on the prairies. He commited crimes against females and female children.

It appears he was known to abduct, confine, assault and murder among other many other crimes. He moved around a lot. He had no issues approaching victims. He was a jack of all trades.

It is unclear to me if Howe was in prison in 1981 when Kelly was murdered or not. It does state he was released from a Sask prison before he fled to Toronto and shortly thereafter Sharin' was murdered but I did not catch if it indicated how long he had been in prison. If he was in prison clearly he was not involved in this case. If he was not, it in my opinion should be looked at.  I will re-watch the documentary in the event that I missed this regarding the length of his incarceration.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on March 16, 2010, 07:11:29 AM
....same here haunted; as I watched the documentary, I couldn't get Kelly out of my mind.  It's strange how intense it felt.  I experienced the same feeling about Russell Williams and the missing girl that landed at Halifax airport and disappeared - Rose Coakley, January 1, 1992....same intense weird feeling in my gut! :(
So much close similarity in many different cases!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 17, 2010, 01:02:31 AM
According to the video, Howe was arrested for kidnapping (news article) and not released again till Feb 1982.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2010, 06:54:34 PM
I was giong to be in warner today, but due to blizzard conditions I have to postpone the trip.

I'd really like to chat with some locals about the rumors that a resident was a POI in this case.

I'll try again next month.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on March 26, 2010, 07:48:25 PM
The answer lays somewhere around Standard and surrounding area. This guy is supposed to have set this up over one/two months. He had to have had a contact in the area. He ate with people, had a beer, likely had to sleep somewhere. He was seen face to face by people. Somebody knows something and for whatever reason hasn't come forward. It may be as simple as they were never asked! This guy drove around the area and was obviously in the village a couple of times. Somebody, likely any teen age boy can likely tell you the make, model and colour of the car and it was likely seen by more than one person. A lot of people have some thoughts or suspicions yet they don't want to get involved. Stuff like; "it (composite) looks like Ed but i've known him all my life and he's a good guy"  OR "without the glasses, that looks a bit like Frank but I know he would never do anything like that". People are afraid to call the Police on merely a whim because it could cause embarrassment to a friend. Maybe a hired hand running a farm for someone. The employer is reluctant to call on his man because he might quit and then what. Maybe a family member that nobody wants to call on out of shame or embarrassment. Someone in the area knows something! This guy had a connection to the area.
A transient would move on to Calgary where there is less likelihood of observation and detection. He didn't appear to be an experienced perp as he took some awful chances in driving into a cul-de-sac where a parent or friend could have observed him and his vehicle. He let his victim get away from him and most perps of this type would never let that happen. When she got to the phone he likely panicked and killed her. If he was connected to the area he wanted the body as far away from him as possible, hoping to divert suspicion to another location. Police should have a forensic artist do a bust from the composite, both with and without glasses. They should also have and age enhanced bust done again with and without glasses. There is a fabulous geographical pro filer in Vancouver (world renowned), as well there should have been a criminal profile done by both the RCMP and FBI. New life like 3D busts could trigger a lot of memories. This is one of the most reprehensible unsolved crimes in Alberta and it screams for resolution. There is a lot more information available than in a lot of similar crimes. This guy had some connection with area and I firmly believe that. I also believe that somebody connected with area holds the small piece of information that will blow it open.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 26, 2010, 08:48:00 PM
Quote
This guy had some connection with area and I firmly believe that. I also believe that somebody connected with area holds the small piece of information that will blow it open.

I agree with that too.

It sure owuld be nice if they could try to solve this again, and spend the money to really dig again.

I did not know he was around town a lot. I know I saw he was at the cafe or something and gas station, but that's all.

It is awfully strange isn't, that no one can ID him even though he hung around a few months.

Do you know if anyone in Hussar claimed to have seen him?

Hussar is the key IMO. that town is out of the way, you don't happen to visit there. You go there because you intended too. Why did they go there?

Not sure if the town has changed much since 1981, but when I visted the spot where the payphone was, I was thinking she came from across the train tracks into town as all other directions have homes which I would assume she would have gone to first.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on March 26, 2010, 09:50:29 PM
Couldn't agree more about the Hussar thing!
-If the perp was from the south country would he kill the victim at or near Hussar and then drive two hours with a body in his car, and then dump it in his own back yard??
-The most opportune time for the victim to escape would have been while she was being taken from the car, likely into a house or garage in the town
-In the darkness down by Chin finding cement blocks or bricks wouldn't be the easiest thing to do. If he had them in his yard or garage at Hussar??, wouldn't that be easier for him?
-listings of similar colour and type of cars could have been obtained for a 50 mile radius. Just leg work after that.
-Did he just randomly pick the name "Christensen" or did he have some type of connection? Had he done some type of work for a Christensen family at some point? I think the   selection  of the name was more than random and is a key in this case.
-was this guy a backyard mechanic or body man? Was he using a clients car? Was a a local car repainted shortly thereafter. Was somebody selling bricks or patio blocks in the town?
-was someone sporting a new brush cut within a day or two?
-did someone look like they had been in a hell of a fight i.e scratches or cuts? People will fight hard in those instances.
-did someone leave the area on a trip or otherwise shortly after this event?

Someone has the key locked in their head and I will bet there will be lot of surprised people when he is apprehended. Someone in the area has probably always had the answer for sure. The thing is that more time and money has to be spent to do the legwork. There must be a resolution for the victim's family. There is too much to go to let this case slide into oblivion.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on March 27, 2010, 12:43:40 PM
...excellent points Enigma - especially
Quote
The most opportune time for the victim to escape would have been while she was being taken from the car, likely into a house or garage in the town
 I wonder what buidings were closest to that phone??? ...wish I lived close to there... No wonder Chris keeps going back!
I think Chris had good instincts on this from day 1.... the answer is out there... probably in Husser.
We must keep bringing the thread back up... and keep going back to the clues.  This girl deserves that.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on March 27, 2010, 03:23:33 PM
I have always wondered about the time lapse between when Kelly got into his car and the time the phone call (assuming it was Kelly who placed that call), given the distance from point A to point B isn't that far, less than a half hour. I wonder if he drove around or took her to a location at or near Hussar (a house, garage, farm on the outskirts, abandoned out building, closed business) and she managed to escape and get to the phone.

Enigma, I agree, very likely someone local knows something that is pertinent. People in small towns notice everything. I hope that one day someone comes forward with the piece of the puzzle, as it has been nearly 30 years.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on March 27, 2010, 08:46:11 PM
Justice delayed is justice denied! It is clearly time for another big push on this crime. Like I mentioned in a previous post, a forensic artist should be consulted ASAP to create busts from the composite. 3D pics with and without the glasses as well as age enhanced. Once this is done it should be plastered everywhere both in Calgary region and across Canada. These crimes have to be actively investigated. It is not OK to just look at the few tips that come in from time to time. I read they get about three tips a year on this but I certainly hope more effort than that is expended than that suggests.
In the only picture of Kelly I have ever seen; she is wearing what appears to be a figure skating outfit. Wasn't the initial intended victim a figure skater? It might be pure coincidence but what are the odds the first intended victim and victim may have belonged to the same figure skating group. Was the perp checking them out or had an intersection with them at some arena in the area?
The comb over style of hair for men was a greaser look from the 60's. A few guys carried that over into the 80's so pegging the perp at about 40 yrs is probably pretty accurate. That puts him between 65-75 years of age now. Clearly somebody has to get their butt in gear and do something proactive on this case. I watched a recent program where the El Sigundo California Police solved a 50 yr old double murder (2 of their own police officers killed in 1957) after some 50 years. The suspect was a 77 year old man living in the eastern USA. There is probably more to work with here than they had. It's time to step up and get this done! How come this hasn't been solved is beyond me. The answer lays within the area and it's high time someone goes out and gets it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on March 27, 2010, 09:13:25 PM
Enigma:

I agree 100%, there is more information available on this case than many many others. We know exactly when and how she was abducted. We know that people saw this man, and some talked to him. We know that a composite sketch was done up along with a verbal description. We know the MO is unusual. We know he was targetting someone different but for whatever reason decided to switch his target to Kelly instead. Why? Was time of the essence? Was he leaving the area or only in the area for a short period of time? He only had access to a vehicle for a certain period of time? or because he had geared himself up to do this crime and the crime itself was more important than the victim and he felt it would be too disappointing to call it off or postpone the crime?

People saw his vehicle. He chose a surname that was either random (random in the sense of perhaps choosing one of the more common local names in the phone book), or as you suggested Enigma, perhaps not so random.

We believe Kelly placed a very distressful call from a town very near by. Kelly's remains were found (as many on this site are never found). The location of where her remains were discovered may or may not be significant. We know that someone went into the funeral home in attempts to view her.

We know that her murderer is male. We know that he is bold. We know that he took considerable risks. Why? Because he was so cocky that he would get away with it or because he was so amateur? We know that he put considerable effort into this crime as opposed to a crime of opportunity. He planned it. The planning part of it was probably part of the pay off for him. Is he an intellect? Did he think he carried off the perfect crime?

It is time to solve this crime.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on March 27, 2010, 11:59:20 PM
haunted......

I just feel that there was so much more that could have and should have been done. As you quite rightfully say; there isn't usually that much info available in these cases and often not even a body! Many older farmers in the 70's and 80's never watched TV much. Maybe listened to a little radio a bit and minded their own if you what I mean. It would be interesting to know if the composite was ever printed in the Western Producer (a paper almost all farmers received). To many that is all they ever read and some still do today even after retiring. A lot of people in the area probably have never seen the composite to this day. The Hutterites were known to hire people to do work on their farms and they would only speak if spoken to! How much work went into tracking down similar size/colour cars in the area of the kidnapping and dump site? If that car is still out there rusting away in a field there may be some forensics still available. The thing is these cases take some human resources and money. A lot of agencies don't want to put in the required effort because of case loads etc, however in this case the perp drove up to the family's front door and picked up his murder victim. This is one they should have never let slide! The perp had some connection to the area and probably hid out in plain view. Someone in a 50 mile radius of Standard no doubt has the answer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on March 28, 2010, 06:10:04 PM
I know that poster AaronP cited many references to articles in newspapers and magazines, I believe on pages 12 or 13 on this thread. I know that the Alberta Report had one or more articles on this crime but I have not seen any reference to the Western Producer. I am not particularly familiar with that periodical but I agree with you that it would be well read by many in the rural areas. I wonder if the Western Producer were approached if they would run another article with the composite and description?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on March 28, 2010, 07:41:27 PM
good thinking haunted... that would at least generate some community interest, and maybe get the ball rolling again.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on March 30, 2010, 09:55:26 PM
Haunted..................

The Western Producer was a small paper that most Farmers and Ranchers got every month I believe. To many it was the only magazine they ever read. They sold livestock, tractors, farm trucks etc. Back around the time of this crime it was very popular with rural folks. I have read as much as I could on this case and it still points to a local connection and that is where the answer lays. I looked at the pic of the guy who was murdered at New Dayton; and at a glance he seems to fit the composite. If he is suspected by the police or whomever???, I would have to believe they have more than rumor. I was able to read that the guy's name was Ken________? You can also make out that he did mechanic work for people in that area. Was he doing some in Standard?Hussar at the time of the crime? Were they ever able to go through his car? did it match the suspect vehicle? Can they locate it again? They can pull fingerprints off porous surfaces up to 40 years old. A British scientist has developed a way to pull prints off metal using an electronic process, even where fingerprint powder has found none. That child may have left some in that vehicle! This has to be re-worked and a suspects has to be identified. This is one of the older crimes in Canada yet has so much to work with.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2010, 05:41:38 AM

Hard to believe that 29 years have passed since Kelly Cook was abducted from her home in Standard, Alberta. And the case is still not officially solved (and may never be).

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 22, 2010, 07:54:18 AM
Rest In Peace Kelly. I also wish for peace for Kelly's family.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 22, 2010, 12:26:26 PM
I never knew Kelly, but I too will be forever haunted by what happened to her and to this investigation. If her family has come to terms and is at peace with it all now, I can only imagine how hard fought that would be to attain. They have had a lifetime of grief already and are entitled to that. On some days though, I still wonder what more Kelly would want done...
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on April 22, 2010, 05:43:56 PM
This is one of the most heartbreaking murders in our nation. Some brazen SOB drives up to your home, takes your daughter away on a ruse, and murders her! AND the crime remains unsolved for 29 years? This child wasn't hitch hiking in a desolate area or grabbed off the street. She was taken from her home. In many of these cases there is l;ittle to go on however the police had quite a bit to work with. Unless the family or someone pressures the authorities, often these cold cases remain unworked. Nobody will ever convince me that everything that could be done has been done in this case. This crime must be solved and the suspect identified!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 22, 2010, 10:33:47 PM
29 years.. wow. I hope it can be solved.

This is a case I think would be great if someone like unsolved myseteries took a look. Very very out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 23, 2010, 12:30:41 AM
29 years later, this is still as brazen and bizzarre as it gets.. to the extreme. Just how do you go about getting a show like unsolved mysteries interested enough to take a look?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 23, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
I'll try that. And Canadian options too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 23, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
Aaronp would be the one to ask this of as he seems to have a good grasp on media coverage of Kelly's case but for some reason it seems to me that Unsolved Mysteries did do a re-enactment of Kelly's case, back in the late 80's or maybe even the really early 90's. I have tried to search archives for the show and have found nothing. Perhaps I am losing my mind or maybe it was a different show that did the re-enactment. I am sure there was one broadcasted on local stations and it seems to be it would have been in the late 80's sometime.

Aaronp are you able to shed any light on this?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 23, 2010, 08:34:02 PM
I think it was the murder in Banff. I just moved to Calgary when it was shown on that show and it generated a lot of local media attention.

That murder was solved... one of the first DNA cases I believe.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 25, 2010, 02:51:15 AM
I grew up in and still live in southern Alberta. I remember this case well, I can tell you for a fact that in 2005, the RCMP Special Investigations Unit were still actively working on the case because they were, at that time, investigating my brother.
I was 12 years old in 1981, and although young and somewhat sheltered from the news reports, I remember well. I know the young men that found her in Chin Lake. My family had a farm in Wrentham, a small hamlet south east of Chin Lake. My dad retired in 1976 and we moved to Lethbridge, but my oldest brother stayed on the farm. He passed away in 1991, and strangely enough, I can't recall anything about this person from Warner.
In 2005, 2 of my sisters were interviewed by the RCMP, but I was not. They said they were following up on a tip they received. The RCMP ended up clearing him as a suspect.... why, I don't know. Nobody, especially my sisters, like to talk about this.
I went to the library and explored newspaper archives. I even drove to Standard and sat, for hours just looking around. The last 5 years have been difficult. I am really afraid.... too afraid to call the RCMP and get more information. I spent lots of time on the farm with my brother and know that I may have been there with him on April 22. That would definately clear him, but none of my brothers or sisters remember if I was there then.
I am about 10 minutes away from Chin Lake, if anyone would like current photos of the area let me know. I think I can still get to the spot where she was found as it was, I think a little bit east of the bridge on the south shore. I don't remember, but being April, I can't help but think about her, and just the fact that my brother was suspected horrifies me....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 25, 2010, 04:40:03 AM
When I lived just off the Highway of Tears" for a number of years the local Police were always quick to inform us if a predator has changed locale. The officer at the time said that when the "heat" is on the perps, or "a" perp, they often move down the line (highway) to where they are less known or not known. Anyone who has devious motives seems to keep steps ahead of police usually and if they received som knowledge that police were warning communities down the line, this probably caused some to completely change locales. Kelly's murderer could be from hundreds of miles away. What aggravates me to no end is that the perps have too many "rights" in our system.
I'm sorry your family was so negatively impacted.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 25, 2010, 09:09:22 AM
Bobcat

Thanks for letting us know that the RCMP are still actively following up on tips. While each year that passes it will be more difficult for evidence to be obtained that may lead to a conviction but I choose to believe that it is still possible. What you said also goes a long way to show that people are still submitting tips and maybe that person with the right information will be a little less afraid as time goes by and will come forward.

Did your brother match the composite sketch in anyway, in your opinion? Did he have any sort of connection to Standard which is a bit of distance and quite out of the way from the Warner area?

It seems there have been a few locals in that area that have pointed fingers at different people as suspects. I am not sure what any of the accusations were based on.

I am sure that the 2005 investigation would have taken a considerabl toll on your family.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 25, 2010, 10:15:08 AM
hi Bobcat,

Actually since Wrentham is pretty close to Warner, the person who made that claim about a suspect in Warner may have been correct.
They may have just assumed warner is the closest town since Wrentham is barely a town anymore. I


And the person died in 1991 just like your brother, so I guess your brother was likely that suspect being mentioned.

Anyway, sorry about your brother.

You mention he was cleared. Is that 100% certain he was?

Would your brother have had any reason to be up there at that time? It seems only a person with a reason would have been there.



But I do have one final question. Did the police seek DNA from you or any family member to compare?

If someone sent a tip in, and it was wrong, I would not get too upset by that. It actually happens a lot. It does not mean he was involved.

Thanks Bobcat.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2010, 10:58:25 AM
Thanks Bobcat, as Chris said, just because questions are being asked, doesn't mean your brother was involved. Understandably a very difficult spot for you, but hey, you could also be clearing your brothers name by addressing the issue.

re:
Quote
I am really afraid.... too afraid to call the RCMP and get more information

There are many people here on this site and physically around your area that are willing to help in any way you need. Congratulate you for the making the effort despite what may be uncovered..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 25, 2010, 11:39:52 AM
I hope this isn't a duplicate, but I think I lost my post somewhere!
First to answer questions:
None of us were asked to provide DNA. I think the tip came after my dad passed away in 2004 out of respect for him. He wouldn't have any reason to be in the Standard area, and he doesn't look like the composite. He didn't wear glasses and had a smoother complexion. He didn't have a car, just trucks, but friends of his did have cars... too long ago to picture what kind. He would have been 29 in 1981.

He was a successful farmer and didn't get married until 1988. He commited suicide in 1991. He was "unofficially" diagnosed with shizophrenia as he never did seek medical attention. He was 18 years older than me, so when he did and said weird things, I shrugged it off as a kid. I spent lots of time on the farm with him, and could have very well been there on April 22 because it was Easter holidays. I know lots of people were questioned and I think he even was in the early 80's.

I need to start asking more questions... firstly what was it that cleared him. I've had such horrible nightmares in the last 5 years and my guilt maybe from actually thinking when they came, that it could have been him. I have considered hypnosis to help me remember. I want to do everything I can to get justice for her. I will be asking questions..... from anyone I can.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2010, 12:09:07 PM
Perfect Bobcat, tough spot for you but I'm impressed :
Quote
I want to do everything I can to get justice for her.

There are people who said the suspect must have been from the Standard area due to circumstance and the same has been said about a suspect from the  Warner area. Nothing is definite. The information you have provided is great, we will have to take the time to digest it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 25, 2010, 12:52:55 PM
Being the youngest, and being 10 years younger than the rest of my brothers and sisters, nobody said anything to me. I'm still treated that way. They said I didn't need to talk to the RCMP, I was 12, what would I have known.....
I'm going to start by contacting some of his friends that still live in the area. I'm sure there will be stories, but no matter, someone somewhere knows something.........
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 25, 2010, 01:13:46 PM
Exactly Bobcat, maybe we can get to the bottom of this yet! We here are all likely assuming that your brother was the person refered to in earlier posts. We had been hoping that someone would come along to shed light on what that was all about.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 25, 2010, 11:57:55 PM
That might be a good way to learn more by asking people who knew him then.

It was reported that the person planned this over months, thus he'd have had to have been up there a few times.

But I will say this. If he was cleared, then there is nothing to worry about. Perhaps he was sent as a tip just because someone felt it could have been him. Not that is was him for sure.

People saw the killer, and if they had a photo of your father, those people who saw him would have known right away it was not him.

But it is strange that there is another person mentioned, who was said to be in Warner, and that person also died in 1991.

Warner and Wrentham are not too far from each other. The guy in Warner was murdered, maybe if you can, learn to see if your father knew this person.

I was going to stop into Warner this spring or summer and do some asking around myself.

Chris
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 26, 2010, 08:17:44 AM

But I will say this. If he was cleared, then there is nothing to worry about. Perhaps he was sent as a tip just because someone felt it could have been him. Not that is was him for sure.

You are right, I shouldn't be worrying that it was my brother. It was just an experience that I suppose is still upsetting. In a few weeks we went from getting a bomb dropped to o.k. he's been cleared from our investigation. I've discovered that it had a greater impact on me than I realized.
Being a small community, I've heard stories about him in passing, and I've defended him saying there was nothing extremely interesting... he was mentally ill and probably didn't realize what he was doing when he killed himself. Many people thought that because he was guilty was why he killed himself. Other people not familiar with Kelly Cook, made different speculations. I defended and continue to defend him, but the thing is.... I don't know what he was doing for sure for a long time. He uncharacteristically travelled in the early 80's. He went on cruises and tours to Mexico.
He doesn't look like the composite, but I need to know why they didn't think he should be pursued further. I wish I could do more for her. I've driven highway 36 up and down, but it's been 29 years now. What on earth do I think I'm going to find now that investigators couldn't!?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 26, 2010, 12:21:29 PM
I think that back when Kelly's body was found in the vicinity, people started looking around and anyone who was a little different got tarred by rumour. As far as your brother bobcat, there really isn't anything to suggest he could have been involved and really, there is much more to the contrary.

However, the other fellow that was mentioned from your area (check your pm for the name) did have a similar look but again, little is known about him except he was murdered back in 1991, coincidentally, the same year your brother died. If you are asking questions of people who lived in the area back then, may as well ask about the other fellow too. Never know what may turn up.. Keep us posted..

 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
Yeah I agree. ONe way to help is to ask around with some old timers when you can about this case and see if there are any rumors or talk of a specific person.

In 1981, you can only imagine how intense this news was in Wrentham. Everyone was probably looking at everyone with suspicion and since everyone knew everyones business, a couple of people probably emerged as potential suspects.

Which is also another reason your brother was not the killer.

Someone there would have known he was in Standard, or saw the photo or anything and called the police.

Your brother would not have suddenly appeared on the radar in 2005. Police have to check out every lead. And since they did not ask for DNA, they probably dropped it for a good reason.

From day 1, we here have always suspected someone in the Taber/Warner area though. As you probably agree, no one just 'knows' about Chin resivour', it is a place then that only local people were really aware of.

If you ever come across someone from warner, especially one who was there in 1981, please ask if they heard of any rumors or anything.

It is still possible to solve this case.

Thanks,

Chris
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 26, 2010, 11:54:21 PM
I certainly will, as I know lots of people around here. I will be talking with someone in a day or two, who was questioned early on. His health is failing now after a self destructive lifestyle. I've known him all my life and he was a very good friend of my brother, so if there's anything he wants to get off his chest, now would be a good time. In fact, my brother wasn't the only to commit suicide from the area that was questioned, but I think, (and hope) the RCMP questioned everyone.

I do think someone familiar with southern AB was involved. The fact that when HWY 36 gets to Taber, you have to follow HWY 3 west all the way through Taber to get to the continuation of HWY 36 south. I think that would have flustered someone unfamiliar with the area especially in a state of having just committed at the very least an abduction. I certainly am not a criminal psychologist, but I think having found the continuation of the highway 36, travelling about 15 minutes, to find the bridge and lake, it seems too spontaneous for someone who put quite a bit of thought into the whole crime to just decide o.k., this looks like as good a place as any. I know one of the guys that found her well enough to call him up and talk about it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2010, 11:58:36 PM
Quote
The name Bill Christensen isn't anyone's name, but it does have some significance in this particular group of men.

Do you know how this is? That is a pretty important bit of info.

You know what, I think you might be on to something. Maybe some of these people know who did it, but loyalty or just plain 'not my business' has been bothering a lot of people.

You're doing a good thing. If you do not mind, I'd like to send you my e-mail address. If you get some info that is very very important, it mnight not be a good idea to post it here, rather send it to me first and then put it on.

If it turns out to be nothing, then that is good too.

Thanks,

Chris
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: KAL on April 27, 2010, 09:02:25 AM
Hey group. This is my first post. I think what you guys are doing is great. I have lived in Strathmore for the last 16 years now and have met the family several times. I remember talking to Kelly's Dad about this prior to him passing away and it tore my heart out. I know this is still being investigated but I question how well it was investigated back in 1981. I say this because a friend of mine who was used to be with the RCMP GIS echoed this concern. I would like to pass a name on to you (Chris) but not on the open board of a person I have been suspicious of for many years. I would mention it on here but I know he is very much alive and you never know who reads this.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 27, 2010, 09:58:35 AM
Bobcat and Kal, you both are great but please, for your own safety don't give too much info on here, (open board) rather private message Chris and he'll know what to do. Perps will be reading on here from time to time also. Godspeed, and safety.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 27, 2010, 10:30:13 AM
Whoa, Kal, maybe you could post a few more details before taking the fifth, like what gives rise to your suspicions? Does the guy at least look like the suspect? Just give the guy a nickname and you can speak in general terms.....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 27, 2010, 02:01:19 PM
I've always had a soft spot for Kelly and the fact that nobody was doing squat to help (who could have helped).   I think Bobcat and Kal could be a God send.

I tend to disagree on not sharing what you know/find out.  You can use initials or fictitious names.  It's my belief and experience that the more people you share your information with, the safer you are.  When you keep secrets about a crime, it's easy for killers to get rid of one or two people .... a lot harder when the whole board knows what you found out.  To me it's kind of like, if you're gonna fight evil, fight it out in the open.... not secretly where you could get cornered.  Personally, I don't trust police as far as I can throw them.... especially the ones who failed to bring in the killer in the first place.  just my opinion folks!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 27, 2010, 03:30:00 PM
Lost, I agree with you to a certain extent also, but my mind goes to the case of JFKennedy; all those who had info were dropped off like flies.
In this case if too much is out and around on the "witnesses" they could be bumped off as well before they get to tell their story. My mind is in a bind over this. Giving certain details even with a nicname, and someone who knows about it will be tipped off prior. I prefer "surprising" people and that way you get to watch their reactions to compare to their words. JMHO.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 27, 2010, 04:07:18 PM
I see your point SAP;  One has to be careful to keep a few vital pieces of the  puzzle private.  I suppose you know when you have to do that.  But you put that vital, information on paper if more than one place ....and let it be known that you've done so. (as my family did 20 yrs. ago). Then the perp/s know it's no use to go after you because so many know what you know.  ....and they also realize there's more vital info. placed with trusted allies, in case something happens to you.  So the perp's in a spot then.... they want to keep as far a way from you as possible, in the hope that it all doesn't come to a head because they went after you to find out what you know.  ....Ergo; only the truly guilty party would know what you haven't gone public with.  Think about it.  ....again, it's just my personal opinion.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on April 27, 2010, 04:52:52 PM
It is important to give others information so more than just one person is aware of particulars but it is also important not to post certain things publicly.  I for one have always found Chris to be a great resource in that manner.

KAL thanks for joining the discussion. It is nice to have someone local to the area bring insight into this thread.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: capeheart on April 27, 2010, 05:36:12 PM
Bobcat and Kal, this is great that finally there is a light that comes out of the darkness on Kelly's unsolved murder. And some good advice given, keep it off the site. As eager as we are to know the details of this mystery, I believe the best thing is to keep it close. And the advice is, NEVER POST A NAME. If that doesn't work, then try another avenue. Good luck and keep us posted with as much as you can.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on April 27, 2010, 06:11:10 PM
I agree with everyone. I found this site in 2005 and have just read and lurked in the background. I'm generally a quiet person, but once I start talking..... verbal diarrhea as my husband calls it. Since I'm a pretty good typer, the same goes for that too!
I've had trouble sleeping since oh.... 2005 and sometimes I do posting in the middle of the night. I should make a draft in notepad, then preview later before I post, because yes, the internet can be a wonderful resource, but also a nightmare.
I sure don't want to get anybody lynch-mobbed by using specific names. For so long I thought what can I do.... the RCMP investigated. They went to school and studied forensics and evidence, but it would be futile to think that they could spend as much time as I can just examining, questioning, and observing. I would love it if her mom anyway will find out the truth before she passes. 29 years is so long, but maybe if anyone knows something, he / she / they might think it's been so long now, nobody pays attention and starts slipping out details.
Thanks everyone for the wonderful support. I hesitated so long to post on here and glad I did finally!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 27, 2010, 06:31:52 PM
I'm glad you did too. I really do hope either way, you learn the truth.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on April 27, 2010, 08:08:49 PM
I agree with Lost. The more information that is posted on the threads the safer a person will be. Without using proper names of course, I don't think Wilie Coyote or Porky Pig would mind anyone taking their name in vain, but then again............
Also when 'scenario's' are posted sometimes one of the smarter or 'hotdog' cops may pick up on something posted and run with it and arrest someone. That's a long shot but there has to be a cop with at least half a brain still working in all of Canada. Hopefully.

I tend to disagree on not sharing what you know/find out.  You can use initials or fictitious names.  It's my belief and experience that the more people you share your information with, the safer you are.  When you keep secrets about a crime, it's easy for killers to get rid of one or two people .... a lot harder when the whole board knows what you found out.  To me it's kind of like, if you're gonna fight evil, fight it out in the open.... not secretly where you could get cornered.  Personally, I don't trust police as far as I can throw them.... especially the ones who failed to bring in the killer in the first place.  just my opinion folks!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Enigma on April 28, 2010, 06:16:57 PM
One never knows where the answer is going to come from or when! Based on the number of threads/posts this case remains one of the most followed cases ever in our country. People want this solved now. The answer is close and this case is solvable. I think it is still necessary for a suspect to identified and confirmed whether or not he is deceased. I read Kals's post and it broke my heart that Kelly's father went to his grave never knowing. The hurt this murderer left behind will be a family legacy for eternity. It is also a societal legacy that we should demand resolution for, and soon! Somebody out there knows the answer. They know the perp, know of him, know where the vehicle may have ended up, know who he worked for, know of a conversation etc. Somebody knows something very critical. Someone may have taken an oath not tell but should really look at the gravity of this crime and do the correct thing. Yes maybe a family will be hurt when this suspect is exposed (alive or dead) BUT can it be anything close to what the Cook family had to endure, and in fact still endures? Do a lifelike bust from the composite both at the age at the time, and an age enhanced one. Get it out on the media particularly into the area near the crime scene and the body recovery area. Sadly I think this file has been bounced from investigator to investigator with nobody taking real ownership. I happen to know that to solve a crime you have to be doggedly determined, relentless and ruthless. There is much more that could and should be done by police. There is much more that could and should be done by people who in fact, have the answer! Let's put the pressure on to get this matter resolved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on May 09, 2010, 01:49:48 PM
Haven't had much luck in getting anybody to talk to me :(. We've had some pretty wild nasty weather around here in southern Alberta so I guess everyone's busy???
At the very least, I've gotten anyone who would listen to remember Kelly and what happened. Lots of local people agreed with me that it should never be left alone and keep asking questions.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on May 09, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
I referenced the following sources:

1) Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p. 48

2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35

3) Alberta Report, July 10, 1981, p. 36

4) "Who Killed Kelly?" Alberta.com, April 22, 2001

5) "Who Killed Kelly?" Calgary Herald, April 1986


As to why the police were curious about that fellow in Wrentham, it only seems logical since Wrentham is so close to Chin Lakes, even closer than Warner (at least on the map I looked at). Keep in mind that the alleged criminal was described as 'aged 40 to 45... five feet, 10 inches tall, with a stocky build'. (3) Also keep in mind that the criminal must have been familiar with the Standard area. Police '... think the man was very familiar with the village, since he knew Miss Cook frequently took babysitting jobs, and he used the name Christensen'. (2) ' "There is no doubt the suspect either lived in the area or frequented it," says RCMP Corporal Craig Green. "He knew what Kelly looked like and what her name was. He also knew the town layout and some of the neighbours..." ' (1) So keep the description and the need to have known about and frequented Standard in mind when debating whether that Wrentham man was potentially involved. Since the police seem to have cleared him, it's unlikely. But even as far back as 1986, 'over 2,000 possible murder suspects have been ruled out'. (5)

As for the police needing to have done more, let's consider the following. Police 'strongly believe the killer and police have crossed paths at some time during the investigation, which has exhausted thousands of man hours. "I don't want to say that we've missed something and we've spoken to the guy, but when you look at the volume of work that has been done, I find it hard to believe that we wouldn't have spoken to the (killer) at least once... I don't know if he's been interviewed but I'm sure he's been spoken to. It's such a massive file that has gone on for so long and so many people have been spoken to." ' (4)

Even as far back as 1986, 'although town residents are disappointed the case remains unsolved, they are not critical of the police. Most say the police have done everything they can.' (5)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Bobcat on May 09, 2010, 11:28:39 PM
I agree it is more likely someone from the area or formerly from the area but moved away at the time because the reservoir, Chin Lake, was unusually low that year so it didn't fill to it's normal level. My understanding of the information is that if the reservoir was at normal level it is likely Kelly would not have been found. So the killer knew where to put Kelly.

I agree with this 100%. There have only been a few times that I can remember Chin Lake being very low. When I read the local paper archives, I'm not totally sure, but the spot she was located wasn't an area that could be reached from the bridge or either of the recreation areas on the east and west sides of the south end of the bridge. Not by car anyway, unless you knew what gravel roads to take, then private roads to get to the lake itself. When I was young, we used to go swimming in the lake at a spot I thought of as our private beach. It was on a southern shore east of the bridge far enough away that I could see the bridge, but we weren't easily seen by others at the recreation areas. It was on gravel roads and it's not like you could see that the road suddenly had a steep hill to get to the lake, if you can understand what I'm talking about. That particular approach to the lake always scared me when I was little, because all of a sudden, you're going down a really steep hill.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on May 11, 2010, 06:33:56 PM
You know Bobcat, I keep trying to get to chin lake but always seem to be just out of time. But now that I know there is swimming available, I am going to take a look.

2,000 people is quite a number! I bet most of those live in and around Standard.

That is the thing that bothers me the most. It would seem if the killer does not live around there, someone who did, must have known the killer.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on May 13, 2010, 08:26:18 PM

Kelly was not acquainted with her killer. That Alberta Report article I quoted simply stated that the killer had to have a knowledge of the Standard area and know that Kelly took babysitting jobs. He phoned his original target, a local 17-year old girl, on Saturday, April 18, 1981, and asked her to babysit. She told him she couldn't, but she passed on Kelly's name and phone number. And on the morning of Wednesday, April 22, 1981, 'Bill Christensen' phoned Kelly Cook and asked her to babysit for him that evening. The alias 'Bill Christensen' was surely chosen because 'Christensen' was such a common surname in the Standard area. The Alberta Report article I quoted did mention that back in 1981, there were up to 30 families living in and around Standard with that surname.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on May 13, 2010, 08:34:16 PM

There was no mention made in the media about the level of Chin Lakes being abnormally low in 1981. It was simply reported that the body was discovered because the level of Chin Lakes had dropped significantly in the past few weeks (i.e., June 1981), exposing Kelly's corpse. And it's worth noting that May 1981 was a wet month in southern Alberta. Calgary, for example, recorded 142 mm of precipitation that month (normal May precipitation in Calgary is 60mm), which meant that the month was more than twice as wet as normal.

Chin Lakes is used for irrigation purposes, and as June progressed, the demand for irrigation water would surely have increased. Once again, media reported that the level of Chin Lakes had dropped significantly, but nowhere was this mentioned that this drop was abnormal or established any low-water records. The water level dropped, Kelly's body was exposed, and it was discovered by two Taber youths riding their motorcycles. That's all.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 14, 2010, 01:26:47 AM
I try to refrain from posting anymore than I have on this thread but there are a few other things that I had not said in regard to the recent points raised. As I previously posted, I was party to a discussion between a drunken Terry Arnold and an acquaintance of mine in the past during which Arnold bragged of having killed at least eight people by that time. One of the victims Terry Arnold bragged about was Kelly.. Arnold was quite detailed in his bragging and dropped a lot of info in a short time.

The latest discussion was heading to the point of the killer had to know Kelly, or Standard, and or the Warner area. I have to thank Aaron for keeping the facts straight and separate from conjecture and speculation.  Keep in mind though that some of the points referenced like #3 are in some ways just speculation too even if  it came from a cop.


Quote
(3) Also keep in mind that the criminal must have been familiar with the Standard area. Police '... think the man was very familiar with the village, since he knew Miss Cook frequently took babysitting jobs, and he used the name Christensen'.

Maybe this mindset contributed to the case remaining unsolved? Christianson was easy, small town, a bunch of people of that name in the phone book. Desespere has noted the rest.

Quote
The info says the killer knew Kelly and so forth. I thought there was an original person the killer contacted, and when she couldn't babysit, and suggested Kelly, the killer called Kelly. Isn't this what has happened?

Yes that is what happened, the killer was only alerted to Kelly days before her abduction. So much for speculation of months of foreplaning..it was extremely brazen and impulsive.

The points raised on Chin lake and whether the killer knew the area and used the seasonal changes in a plan to hide Kelly’s body is of a similar nature. On one hand in hindsight it may appear that way but there may be other explanations as well.

One of the things Arnold mentioned was that he had been out driving to get further away from any populated and travelled area and just started following the signs to Chin Lake when he was getting near that area and decided to follow them. He would then have been a stranger with no foreknowledge of the area whatsoever. He would have placed Kelly in the water where he did because that was as far as he could reach. No more planning than that, no knowledge of historical water levels, or any of the towns around the area.

Some things I felt were best left unsaid, but Arnold did say he only wanted Kelly to remain hidden for a few days till he was out of the area. He said how she was wrapped by the rope, not tied and offered up his motive for where and why he placed her where he did. When months had passed without Kelly being found, Arnold said he had been contemplating phoning in a tip, he never meant for her to never be found, he wanted the media attention or whatever it is that his type get off on.

Arnold assumed that Kelly’s body would float up toward the surface within a few days tethered to the ropes in that spot so she would be visible to passers-by on the bridge like some grotesque display of his handiwork. I assume that the current or temperature or a combination of circumstances foiled that brilliant plan. If what Arnold said is true, so much for fore-planning or knowledge of the area, just a very brazen and impulsive killer with a horseshoe up his ass..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on May 17, 2010, 06:22:02 AM

Don't expect news articles to solve a crime such as this one. The news articles I've referenced have been used to set forth the true facts and straighten out some misconceptions. There was a posting I made some time back when I referenced news articles to correct some obvious misinformation. But if news articles alone could solve a crime, this case would been resolved a very long time ago.

And remember, for anyone who feels that he/she very strongly knows who Kelly's killer really is, the best thing to do would be to contact the police and relay your suspicions. Simply confining your observations and thoughts to this posting board isn't truly the right thing to do. Not to mention that there's a hefty reward offered ($100,000) for information leading to the arrest of Kelly's killer. But remember, the police won't declare the case solved (and give you the reward money) unless you can offer demonstrative proof that a particular person really did kill Kelly. Recanting the ramblings of a career criminal alone simply won't suffice. It's important to remember that some people do like to plead guilty to high-profile crimes they didn't commit. As per a previous posting I made, killer Karla Homolka initially had a tough time convincing a lawyer of her criminal involvement because there was no shortage of 'nuts' who'd 'confessed' (lied?) to police that they had killed Kristen French.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on May 17, 2010, 01:03:24 PM
Alll true I agree Aaron.. It's difficult to get beyond what could be the ramblings of some nut job and pick out the pieces that could be evidentiary. I have no idea if wrapping as opposed to tieing the rope on a victim is unusual or not. The cement blocks and rope he said he found right there could just be an educated guess. The description of the person causing the scene at the funeral home has never surfaced. Not much to go on. I have no interest in pursuing a reward for something like this. I thought that other coroberating evidence may get brought forward from people who would not recognize the significance otherwise unless  this were made known. I was the one who heard it so it was encumbant upon me to at least try. I'm sorry I wish I had more..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on May 17, 2010, 06:01:39 PM
I find it hard to believe somebody from Standard wouldn't take up the adventure on this.  There's no bringing Kelly back; but I know if many of us from this site lived close to, or in Standard, we would have gotten very friendly with the funeral parlors and anyone who worked there when Kelly was waked/mourned. ....the key seems to be there.  It is just about the most outstanding bit of info. about this case.  Find that man who showed up asking questions about Kelly.... and he either is, or knows, the murderer...imo!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on May 17, 2010, 08:31:19 PM

The following hyperlink shows the varying depths in Chin Lakes:


http://srd.alberta.ca/MapsFormsPublications/Maps/PrairiesAreaBathymetryDepthMaps/documents/chin.pdf


The bridge crossing Chin Lakes isn't directly shown, but you can see the highway on both sides. The interesting things I noticed were as follows:

1) There's a boat launch on the south shore of the lake, immediately to the east of the bridge

2) The water around the bridge is fairly shallow (not surprising, given that bridges are usually built over shallower areas of lakes and rivers for obvious reasons)

As per previous news articles I've referenced, Kelly's body was dumped on the north side of Chin Lakes about 200 yards from the highway bridge. I do not know whether the body was found to the west or east of the bridge. But the attached picture reminds me of the pic I saw in the Alberta Report article from July 1981 showing the Chin Lakes reservoir - it was taken from roughly the same spot. Assuming the 1981 pic showed that part of the reservoir where Kelly's body was found, then this attached picture could possibly have been taken near the spot where Kelly's body was dumped. But this is merely speculation on my part.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 12, 2010, 05:42:49 PM
Attached is a photo of the Lutheran Church in Standard. I don't know how many churches there are in the Standard area, but this must surely be the main one, I would imagine. On July 3, 1981, over 200 'angry mourners' (as per a Maclean's magazine 1981 article on the subject) crowded into the Lutheran Church to attend funeral services for murder victim Kelly Cook.

I met a guy once who went to the same high school as Kelly (he was two grades ahead of her). I'm pretty sure he described Kelly's parents as being fairly religious, though he didn't mention any denomination so far as I remember.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 12, 2010, 05:46:23 PM
Attached is a photo of the 'main drag' of the village of Hussar to the east of Standard. Kelly Cook apparently attempted to make a phone call from a phone booth near Hussar at 10:00 p.m. on April 22, 1981. I must admit I had wondered originally why she didn't run to a house and pound on the door, but after I saw this picture, it made sense that she would have used a pay phone - it's not like a city neighbourhood, where there are plenty of residential houses around.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2010, 12:00:15 PM
If the phone booth is in the same spot it was in 1981, it was at least 1 block from homes. I stood at that spot and looked around. The phone would have been visible from most points south, including the rail yard, grain elevators and hockey rink. It would still seem odd no one in Hussar would have noticed anything.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on August 14, 2010, 01:48:05 AM
Wow, I just discovered a simular abduction happened 3 weeks earlier in Olds ALberta. 15 year old girl, but he took her right off the street and drove to Edmonton with her before being arrested:
http://www.ourfutureourpast.ca/newspapr/np_page2.asp?code=nn1p0236.jpg

I was back on this site reviewing all the posts from this thread when I read the article on the girl from Olds who was abducted.  This guy, Bordelon, his age fits the profile for the time era as he was 44 when this went down.  Strangely, nothing came up on Google when his full name is searched, but on Yahoo I found this obituary article from a newspaper in Louisiana from a man who's name was Chester Keith Bordelon who died at age 71 on January 28, 2008.  2008-71= 1937 (YOB).  1981-1937= 44.  The math works out perfectly that this is PROBABLY the man who kidnapped the girl in Olds back in 1981.  According to the obit., he was involved with a Baptist School system.  Unfortunately, I was unable to find a photo of Bordelon to compare with the sketch.  As Louisiana is a sun beat & hot state, this COULD explain the swarthy complexion, if Bordelon is/was a suspect.  The timing is too "there" for it to be a coincidence as Olds & Standard are a hop, skip & a jump away from each other, unless he was in jail the entire time...but there is no newspaper article confirming he was, until the April 29th edition of the Olds Gazette.

http://www.dailyworld.com/apps/pbcs.dll/dclassifieds?Dato=20080127&Kategori=OBITUARY&Class=30&Type=CAT30200&Lopenr=801000167&Selected=1


Thanks for the sketch Chris! Didn't think to see if the local newspaper might have it in archives. That is definitely the sketch I remembered for all those years ago.

I did some more looking at the Olds newspapers to see if there was follow up on the abduction that took place in Olds, which was 3 weeks before Kelly was abducted. The newspaper ran a follow up story around April 22 or so that said that the abductor was being sent for a psychiatric evaluation for May 4 1981. It appears he was in custody for the duration from March 28 when the Olds girl was abducted until after May 4, which would make me think he was later sentenced or extradited to the USA, pending whatever else. Long and short, does not appear he could be the same SOB that was responsible for Kelly's  murder. Keeping fingers crossed that someone will see the sketch and it will jog a memory from a long time ago, or that the murderer is dead or incarcerated and someone who knows something will feel safe enough to offer up some information.

Still hope someone from Warner might have some information.

Do you think back in '81 the cops would have issued a Promise to Appear and released Bordelon on bail or a bond?  They would have kept his car (with LA plates) as evidence I'm sure so the car rental makes perfect sense-or he borrowed it.  I thought someone else had posted somewhere in this thread the guy who took Kelly was thought to have had a southern accent, but I could be wrong.  If he was released the first week of April but stayed in the province for his appearance on the 27th (the article where he was remanded is dated April 29th), he had 3 weeks to hatch his plan.  He may have known of Chin Lakes from coming up through the Coutts border crossing (speculation). The Olds Gazette never made any other mention of this case in the weeks following the April 29th edition from what I could see, so if he was released from custody on bail/bond with a PTA  and was later convicted & served time or was deported is a mystery.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 15, 2010, 11:46:08 PM
I sort of doubt he got bail since he was a foreigner charged with a serius crime.

But whaat I was wondering if he was with another creeep who he was sopposed to meet up with? It has happened. It just seems weird to me considering how relatively close to those towns are located and how rare these crimes were in 1981.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 18, 2010, 01:20:15 AM
That was pretty coincidental and suspicious, the two abductions so close together but there was no opportunity for the perp to have been involved in Kelly's murder.

Re: quote from AaronP
Quote
I must admit I had wondered originally why she didn't run to a house and pound on the door, but after I saw this picture, it made sense that she would have used a pay phone -


That is assuming that she had escaped in the first place, then apparently got recaptured at the phone booth.

For what its worth, T. Arnold had an explanation. He wanted the call to be made and had Kelly scream into the phone. Supposedly to leave a lasting message for the figure skater who had refused his advances and gave him Kelly's name and phone number instead. Twisted shit..


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 18, 2010, 06:50:35 PM

For what its worth, T. Arnold had an explanation. He wanted the call to be made and had Kelly scream into the phone. Supposedly to leave a lasting message for the figure skater who had refused his advances and gave him Kelly's name and phone number instead.



Well, that's a pretty inane action for any criminal, no matter how bumbling, to take! He takes the risk of having his victim deliberately scream into a public phone booth near a village? Nobody could be that dumb! Especially considering how carefully this crime was mapped out. Here are the flaws in the above explanation:

1) If he wanted to leave a message for his original (and intended) victim, why did he place the call to an operator?
2) Even if the call had been placed to the original target, all she'd have heard was a scream - and that was supposed to leave her a lasting message?
3) How could he be sure Kelly would scream on cue and not do/say anything else?
4) Why take the risk of letting Kelly near a phone at all?!?
5) Why take the risk of making a phone call near a population center (Hussar), not matter how small?

Sure, he successfully gets Kelly out of Standard, and then he decides he has to head for a public phone booth near an adjoining village so he can drag Kelly out of the car, force her to make a quick scream (and nothing else) in a call to an operator, hangs up, then drags her back into the car? For what purpose? No matter how much of a numbskull the killer was (and I happen to think he planned the crime very carefully, so he obviously wasn't that dumb), nobody would take such a risk, especially considering that there was nothing for the killer to gain from it, but a lot to lose.

Once again, I'm just injecting some logic into this discussion board. No offence to anyone, but I had to point all this out!


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 18, 2010, 09:30:18 PM
Agree, very logical explanation from a sane logical persons point of view. The killer may not have had the same mental capacity or outlook though.
re:
Quote
Especially considering how carefully this crime was mapped out. Here are the flaws in the above explanation:

This is an important point.
Carefully mapped out for the figure skater maybe, Kelly was a last minute replacement. That changes the entire perspective from a well planned methodical crime to an impulsive brazen act.

re: above questions- other possible explanations..

!)  No quarters, operator call was free, Standard was long distance? Kelly was supposed to call home so killer dialed and bluffed her.

2) Kelly's murder would have been message enough without anything more, think the figure skater wasn't haunted by that ever since?

3) Killer had Kelly and the phone under his control and he had a way of making her scream on cue. Not that difficult..

4) Personality of the killer.. insane.. showing off... brazen

5) The killer controlled the situation.

The same questions could be posed about the escape explanation.
Why madly chase down a girl who had just escaped from you to forceably and visibly abduct her again in such a public place after finding her on the phone and not knowing what she had just said?
Why would Kelly wait in the phone booth and allow him to just grab her again after having escaped once?
Coincidentally she manages to escape right in the vicinity of the only phone around for twenty miles???

Quote
The CBC published Arnold's psychiatric report believing that Arnold, would be in jail for a long time.
quote- Arnold was assessed at New Brunswick's Dorchester Institution after he raped four girls aged 10 to 16. A report there refers to him as insane, dangerous and capable of serious crimes.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 20, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
Many news articles once available disappear from the source websites over time. The original CBC news report about T. Arnold's psyc report has met a similar fate and is no longer available anywhere except on a website called the "wayback machine" . You can sometimes recover missing reports there for a period of time. This is the link to the news article refered to in the above post.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050307205859/http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2000/06/14/stoppel_suspect000614.html  (http://web.archive.org/web/20050307205859/http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2000/06/14/stoppel_suspect000614.html)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 21, 2010, 06:16:23 PM
Just for the record, I do not believe that Mr. Arnold was in any way remotely connected with Kelly's abduction and murder. That is my personal opinion, and it's based on logic and gut feel. On the other hand, I have seen several other postings on this board that sound much more credible as to who may have committed this nefarious crime. It's important to remember that just because some idiot shoots off his mouth about having committed a crime doesn't mean he actually did it. Clifford Olson is a notorious serial killer, but he was implicated in far fewer murders than he 'confessed to', as the police recognized that he was obviously just ranting.

And although I have found several other postings on this board (not including those re: Mr. Arnold) that are more credible, I have no evidence that any of those fellows committed the crime, and so the case is not closed.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 21, 2010, 08:34:34 PM
I believe you are already on record  in respect to T. Arnold AaronP as am I. Every case and every killer is different in some respects. What C. Olson or any one else did does not mean this killer would necessarily behave the same..

Maybe Arnold didn't do it but I personally can't rule him out yet. The other names he mentioned are the victims named in the above news article confirming him as the prime suspect. Some of those cases even had DNA evidence, yet no charges ensued.

Thats the way it is. I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing on T. Arnold, obviously there needs to be more but the only way to ever get that is to keep open to the possibility and watch for evidence of it.

The phone booth is a pivotal point in a way, goes to the personality of the killer and or the escape abilities of Kelly. I wonder what most 15 year old girls would do if they had just escaped an abductor and then saw him approaching the phone booth while they were trying to make a call? Would you wait for an answer or run while you still could?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 21, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
D, I suppose, as you say, that would depend on the individual child's survival skill.  Kelly was a proper young lady, but seemingly smart.  But that all goes out the window when you only have two seconds to make up your mind: Can I outrun him, or will the operator answer quick enough, and can I tell her I need help before he gets me again.

A street smart kid, or a kid with the inherent survival skills, might take the two seconds to find a big rock.  God Bless Kelly.  RIP little darling!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 21, 2010, 11:19:02 PM
I happend to be near Standard and Hussar again yesterday and stopped in. I still cannot figure out how this happened. All those folks all know each other and notice things. Out of respect for the family, I choose not to go around asking questions but I really want too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 22, 2010, 12:28:14 PM
The phone booth is a pivotal point in a way, goes to the personality of the killer and or the escape abilities of Kelly. I wonder what most 15 year old girls would do if they had just escaped an abductor and then saw him approaching the phone booth while they were trying to make a call? Would you wait for an answer or run while you still could?


Well, we don't know what really happened at that phone booth, and perhaps we never will. It seems most likely (though not definite) that the killer pounced upon Kelly while she was dialing the operator. Had she seen him coming while she was in the phone booth, it's a good bet (though not definite) that she would have made a hasty exit and tried to get away from him, perhaps running to a nearby house. She may have thought she'd gotten away when she got to the phone booth, and as she was dialing the operator for help, the killer showed up, grabbed her, she shrieked, and the call was abruptly cut off.

But once again, this is all just speculation, certainly not the facts.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 22, 2010, 01:24:06 PM
Sure its all just speculation as to what happened at the phone booth but there are insights to be gleaned from the event. If Kelly had managed to escape that tells one story and if a forced call, that tells another. How can we tell the difference?

If Kelly had managed to escape her abductor somehow,

1) she must have been in fairly close proximity to the phone booth, the only one around for twenty miles. Otherwise she would have opportunity along the way to go to some residence or flag down a passing truck or some other vehicle before getting to the location of the booth.

2) She must have escaped from a parked vehicle or a residence. Hauser is a very small community, I would imagine everyone knows everyone and if a residence had been used in the abduction, it would be known. If from a vehicle, I doubt she would run right to the phone booth all in plain sight of her abductor and wait to be recaptured.

3) Had she escaped in the area, Kelly would have the choice of seeking out a residence or using the phone. If she had just escaped once, I can’t see her allowing herself to be cornered so easily again. If she had gotten out of sight from her abductor once and then saw him coming again, I believe she would have run. There were other buildings etc in the vicinity.

4) Then you have the coincidence of it being at the exact split second when the call went through, that the scream was heard and then the phone went silent. That sort of precise timing is almost beyond the odds of accidental probability.

It all suggests to me that there was no escape, the killer was there with her the entire time, finger on the receiver. He controlled the situation and the timing of the events.

To me that is logical, I must admit though that I would not have thought of it myself if Arnold had not said it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on August 25, 2010, 04:05:51 PM
She is still not forgotten


RCMP - Cold Case Files:
Kelly Jane Evelyn COOK
Cold Case Files
Kelly Jane Evelyn COOK



Location : Standard, Alberta (AB)

Details : Kelly Jane Evelyn COOK, a 15 year-old female, lived with her parents in the village of Standard, Alberta, which is located 70 kilometers northeast of Calgary, Alberta.

On April 22, 1981, at 8:20 A.M., Kelly received a phone call from a man identifying himself as Bill CHRISTENSEN. The caller asked if she would babysit that evening. Kelly agreed and arrangements were made for the caller to pick up Kelly at her residence.

At 8:30 P.M., a full-sized North American car pulled up in front of the COOK’s residence. The unidentified male and Kelly were last seen departing the residence. Kelly was not seen alive again. Her body was discovered in the Chin Lake Reservoir (east of Lethbridge, Alberta) on June 28, 1981.

It is believed that the perpetrator of this crime had planned the abduction over a one or two-month period.

A one hundred thousand dollar reward ($100,000.00) from the Village of Standard is offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator of this crime.

If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on August 25, 2010, 05:45:23 PM
I hope someone needs that $100,000.00 real bad. If that someone is you, send in your tip please. Your phone call is not monitored and your phone ID does not show up. Please just do it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 25, 2010, 09:43:37 PM

Since the issue of Terry Arnold keeps coming up over and over again, I decided to read up on him. The following hyperlink will direct you to a number of news articles about the scumbag:


http://injusticebusters.com/05/Arnold_Terry.shtml


As per all these articles, Terry Arnold was referenced in the cases of the following women:

1) Denise Lapierre, 1987 - Arnold was a suspect
2) Barbara Stoppel, 1981 - Arnold was a suspect
3) Christine Browne, 1991 - Arnold was convicted
4) Roberta Ferguson, 1988 - Arnold was a suspect

But please take note that none of the articles mentioned anything about Arnold's possible involvement in the Kelly Cook murder case. And it's worth noting that in these articles, police were mentioning his suspected involvement in the disappearances/deaths of several other young women. That's pretty presumptive of the police to publicly state such things - it doesn't typically happen unless the police are really sure. But once again, no mention of Arnold being in any way connected to the Kelly Cook case.

And two posts above, there's police contact information for those persons who feel they truly know who killed Kelly Cook. A sizeable reward fund is offered. So if Terry Arnold or anyone else 'confessed' about his/their involvement in the Kelly Cook murder case, do not restrict your observations merely to this discussion board. Call the police and report all that you were told. But as I mentioned previously, some scumbags like to plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit. Terry Arnold was obviously a horrible person, just like Clifford Olson. And Clifford Olson enjoyed bragging about his supposed role in crimes that in reality he didn't commit - some criminals derive their personal pleasure from such things, sad to say. So the police may not necessarily jump for joy when you report who 'really did it'. Police know very well that shooting off one's mouth does not by itself a conviction make.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on August 25, 2010, 11:15:16 PM
A common sense thought there AaronP.


And two posts above, there's police contact information for those persons who feel they truly know who killed Kelly Cook. A sizeable reward fund is offered. So if Terry Arnold or anyone else 'confessed' about his/their involvement in the Kelly Cook murder case, do not restrict your observations merely to this discussion board. Call the police and report all that you were told. But as I mentioned previously, some scumbags like to plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit. Terry Arnold was obviously a horrible person, just like Clifford Olson. And Clifford Olson enjoyed bragging about his supposed role in crimes that in reality he didn't commit - some criminals derive their personal pleasure from such things, sad to say. So the police may not necessarily jump for joy when you report who 'really did it'. Police know very well that shooting off one's mouth does not by itself a conviction make.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 25, 2010, 11:22:30 PM
I make no claim as to who did it. But if it took planning of 1 - 2 months, and based on the locations of these towns, I really believe that person would have to have been familiar with those places. YOu have to be there to know what I mean. There is something about these places. And they are both fairly small. Living in a town bigger then those, even here, you sort of notice people not from here. Not sure how that happened, but an outsider, specailly city folk, do stand out.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 25, 2010, 11:57:56 PM
Chris in small towns information is scarcer than hen's teeth.  Everybody wags socially but clams up when something criminal happens.  They train each other to "keep out of it".  That's because every town is dominated by lawbreakers and bullies.... and heir apparent cops, who get jobs handed to them, with no training - no competition.
When the criminals appear, the law disappears.... unless of course it's speeders, jay walkers, barking dogs, kids stealing candy, old derelics stealing food.... anything more serious, the criminals can handle that kind of cops; they know these guys aren't confrontational with tough guys.  So people mute up.

But years later, these tough guys have run their course... and everybody else is still yapping over their beer about who beat who, who stole this, who stole that, even who killed who, but they are so use to "staying out of it", they just wouldn't know how to muster up the courage or common sense to do the right thing. imo  ...small towns have "small people".  It never changes until the town gets new blood and some fearless educated people.  Then things take shape;  otherwise every little town just goes from stale, to limbo, to dead.  ...that is what I think!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 26, 2010, 02:37:23 AM
I’ve said what I heard enough times now, I’ve listened to all the arguments, I personally can’t write Arnold off for this crime. I sometimes wonder what my perspective would be if the roles were reversed here. Maybe it makes a difference hearing a confession with your own ears as opposed to having it relayed second hand. I’d have doubts too I suppose. But, there hasn’t been any action, nothing new for near thirty years now, except for this one possible confession.

From an earlier post Aaron:

Quote
I do recall reading newspaper articles that stated that Kelly had not been sexually assaulted. And her body was discovered fully-clothed, though badly decomposed, in Chin Lakes. What was the motive for the killing then? Not sex or ransom. Perhaps it was just his own perverted desires, and his own sickening thrills, that drove him to do what he did. He may have simply been elated on being able to pull off the abduction and murder of a teenage girl under certainly unusual circumstances. But only his confession would truly provide the answers to these questions.

Maybe there are answers yet to be found, but maybe they aren’t the answers most of us want to hear.

As pointed out, there are at least 4 other victims with Arnold officially named as the prime suspect. DNA is available in some of those murders. One murder with DNA available was just down the road from Standard in Calgary. Nothing was done about it, why? She was a ranking Calgary city cops niece even.

The only way Arnold could seriously be entertained as a suspect in Kelly’s murder would call into question a huge portion of the original Police investigation. Very unlikely, it’s over as far as any official investigation of Arnold for this crime. If Arnold committed this crime, Kelly’s murder will remain "officially" unsolvable forever IMO.

Anyone see any upside to calling this in? It’s been through the hands of some 20 cops already, I suspect they know of this. Go ahead though, but you will likely get a reaction strikingly similar to this.

from Aaron-

Quote
Now on to the issue of Mr. Arnold's confession to having killed Kelly Cook. My reaction is: yeah, so what? Remember that the Kelly Cook case was a very high-profile crime, and highly publicized. Take the murder of Kristen French. When killer Karla Homolka went to tell her sordid tale to a lawyer in hopes of a plea bargain (which she got), she found it difficult to get him to believe her story, because 'apparently there was no shortage of nuts who tried to tell lawyers and police they'd killed Kristen French'. (1) Police and lawyers well know that just because somebody confesses to a crime doesn't mean anything. There's got to be some real convincing evidence. I've had people tell me they're space aliens, for example, but that doesn't mean I believe them, because they've got no proof beyond their statements (which, obviously, I take with a grain of salt).


If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.”



Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 26, 2010, 02:09:51 PM
Anyone wishing to see how a tip like this is received can use the online login below.

first the tip gets submitted online -
Quote
http://www.calgarycrimestoppers.org/

then you get a login and password to claim the reward.. check the reply yourself.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: 30 years on August 28, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
From all the information posted it seems clear that the figure skater was the first intended target. It seems with some of the sk's that we have had information on, there is a certain MO, where the victims share certain physical characteristics in common. A previous post on this thread inquired if anyone had the article of the figure skater that was supposedly viewed by the murderer and may have been the catalyst to this whole crime. So far no one has posted that article. Can anyone out there provide a verbal description of the figure skater's physical characteristics at the time so the first intended victim could be compared to other victims of other crimes to see if there are any parallels?

I agree also... I too was once the girl called prior to an assault, it just so happened a perp called my sister then myself and we were both busy.  Then later that afternoon he raped and stabed a young women working alone in a Community Centre in Calgary.  We had nothing in common, even my sister and I.

I did a little searching after I realized it has been nearly 30 years since Kelly's passing and found this thread and have been reading it all afternoon.  I am only on page 15.  After seeing Kelly’s picture I realized how time can go by and events like this one never leave us.  I do remember Kelly from Jr. High I had thought well.  But realized to me Kelly was just as Aaron had stated, that girl, people knew of her but really didn’t know her.

And after reading all your messages surrounding Kelly's disappearance and the hard work you all have put into trying to help solve this case.  I am not only impressed; I would also like to thank you.  Although like you I will never be at peace regarding Kelly’s disappearance.  I know now, she will not be forgotten.

To all of Kelly’s family and friends my prayers’ are still with you after 30 years.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 28, 2010, 09:04:47 PM
Thank you for reading 30 years.  We appreciate the vote of confidence; and it would help if you spread the word that people still care.... people are very determined to find this killer.  Please do this, and keep Kelly's family in your heart just as they are now.  That really helps.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 29, 2010, 06:40:24 PM
I went back over the postings, and I must say, Terry Arnold appears to be quite the blabbermouth re: his supposed involvement in the Kelly Cook murder case! He bragged of having killed Kelly, described killing Kelly and dumping her body, discussed why he chose Chin Lakes as the dumping site, discussed when he assumed the body would be found, talked of how he forced Kelly to scream into a payphone, and admitted to calling his original target's house several times over the years from payphones (which is silly, because the original target was 17 years old in April 1981, and she very well may have moved away from Standard to attend higher schooling within a year or two).

Back in 1986, as per a Calgary Herald article on the murder ('The Unsolved Puzzle' - March/April 1986), it was stated that the police 'now need a lucky break to solve the case, such as the murderer making a confession or bragging to someone about the crime he committed'. Even the police were admitting back then that they'd pretty much exhausted their search and were hoping for a confession or a bragging session (if you can even call it that).

So if Terry Arnold (a teenager himself back in 1981) had confessed in such detail and with such apparent alacrity to the murder of Kelly Cook, and to a complete stranger, then it seems entirely reasonable that he would have done the same with other persons. Voila - the confession and bragging session - two birds with one stone, you might say.

So why has Terry Arnold never been publicly declared as a potential suspect in the Kelly Cook murder case? Maybe because he didn't do it? Police have ruled out thousands of potential suspects. I find it hard to believe that with Arnold's loose lips, they wouldn't have heard of him. And if they ruled him out (as they did with so many other suspects), then it was because they realized he wasn't the killer (Arnold's direct confession to people, if the police decided it was valid (which obviously they didn't), would constitute evidence against him).

Once again, I'm not trying to slam anyone. I'm just trying to be objective when pointing this out.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 29, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
I do get all that too AaronP. Not slamming you for having this stance, it's the most rational and logical in a traditional sense.

If Arnold were involved it would place this case far outside of the norm. Something funny goes on with him, the police seem almost powerless to lay charges or convict him of any murders.

This was a quote from the U.S about him.
http://www.mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/arnoldscrimes.htm)
Quote
The FBI believes he may have been involved in the deaths of several young women in Florida in the 1980s and is looking at unsolved cases in Virginia, Texas, Oklahoma, New York and Mexico.

Nothing more was said, no names nothing..

If we just accept the police explanations for everything that happened here, well its been thirty years of the same now.. Maybe we have to look outside of the box?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on August 30, 2010, 12:22:11 AM
A friend of my daughters' just heard a "news commercial" on Global TV.

"Kelly Cook murder case being re-opened in light of new evidence."

I've searched everywhere, they don't seem to have it posted on any of the news websites.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 30, 2010, 12:25:39 AM
sounds good First Lady.... where there's smoke there's fire!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: First Lady on August 30, 2010, 01:34:26 AM
sounds good First Lady.... where there's smoke there's fire!

Got an update. The news article is a special segment called "Who Killed Kelly Cook", it will air Monday at 6:00 PM on Global Calgary

Hopefully there is indeed some fresh evidence that leads to closure.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 30, 2010, 02:24:07 AM
That for letting us know about that. I sure hope this time, somehow, it can be solved. I'll be watching.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 30, 2010, 03:00:11 AM
Please God; if we can't get justice and closure for our own families, at least give us some for some of the other poor souls,  please give us reason to be able to celebrate being thankful.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 30, 2010, 05:26:12 AM
"Who Killed Kelly Cook" was a half-hour documentary on the abduction and murder that aired on Channel 7 in Calgary back in October 1981. It was shown in order to hopefully generate some tips (which it did, but 29 years later, obviously those tips received weren't enough to solve the case).

Maclean's magazine back in 1981 reported on this documentary with the title 'A Murder Rerun in Prime Time."

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Dub on August 30, 2010, 06:56:17 PM
Chris in small towns information is scarcer than hen's teeth.  Everybody wags socially but clams up when something criminal happens.  They train each other to "keep out of it".  That's because every town is dominated by lawbreakers and bullies.... and heir apparent cops, who get jobs handed to them, with no training - no competition.
When the criminals appear, the law disappears.... unless of course it's speeders, jay walkers, barking dogs, kids stealing candy, old derelics stealing food.... anything more serious, the criminals can handle that kind of cops; they know these guys aren't confrontational with tough guys.  So people mute up.

But years later, these tough guys have run their course... and everybody else is still yapping over their beer about who beat who, who stole this, who stole that, even who killed who, but they are so use to "staying out of it", they just wouldn't know how to muster up the courage or common sense to do the right thing. imo  ...small towns have "small people".  It never changes until the town gets new blood and some fearless educated people.  Then things take shape;  otherwise every little town just goes from stale, to limbo, to dead.  ...that is what I think!

You know, as a resident of Standard and posting on this board a few times I have been so thankful for most of the people on here trying to put some of the pieces together to help us close the chapter on this tragedy. But Lostlinganer your really going to have audacity to make a comment such of that? Reading your comments made my blood boil. You have no clue about anything to do with our Village, you have no clue about any of us who live there, you really have no clue about anything. But you're really going to come on here and make big comments such as those?
 
Nobody in this village was "trying to stay out of it". Everyone was doing whatever they could to help search for Kelly, to try and find information, to try and remember anything at all. Everybody was involved and it has haunted this village ever since.

Standard is not dominated by lawbreakers and bullies and crooked cops? You know why? Because there aren't any lawbreakers here, we don't have any crooked cops because we DON'T have police here. Strathmore RCMP were on this case, as they do look after the village of Standard. Standard residents are not a bunch of "small people", nor are they "uneducated"

So you know what? Next time you open your mouth and plan to spew a bunch of ignorant BS maybe you should have a clue what your even talking about.

The rest of you, I cannot express how much it means to residents here to know that we are not the only ones who have not forgotten about Kelly. God bless.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: 30 years on August 30, 2010, 07:38:55 PM
The news report on Global tonight was not in regards to a new lead, but Kelly's younger sister Marnie finally speaking out in hopes of generating new leads.


The news special also posted the original sketch release of Kelly's abductor, the sketch has been mentioned and posted on this blog; numerous occasions. 

I can't now remember who mentioned weather or not an updated sketch with an approximate age has or can be released?  But, I agree it may be helpful. Posting both the original and an updated profile could help with this case, especially after nearly 30 years.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: 30 years on August 30, 2010, 08:12:20 PM
I know lots of people were questioned and I think he even was in the early 80's.


I am sill reading everyones blogs regarding Kelly and I just came to this posting on page 31.  I to hope this isn't a duplicate posting. 

I have to wonder how old these persons questioned were at the time of Kelly's murder?  Especially after seeing tonight's news cast and seeing that to date, over 2200 people have been questioned as a suspect.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on August 30, 2010, 09:07:47 PM
I just watched it too. Not much new information, but I am glad they are still trying. Someone has to known something.

2,200 people were checked out as of 1990. that is 20 years ago. and I heard the police cleared one guy near Wrentham just 5 years ago, so they are still looking.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: kingpin_19 on August 30, 2010, 11:23:39 PM
My Dad and his family lived in Standard at that time.  His three older siblings had already moved away from home at that point.  My father, at the time, was in Grade 11, while his younger sister, my Aunt, was in Grade 9 at the time and younger brother was in the 7th Grade.  The scary thing is that my Aunt was also 15 years old (if my calculations are correct) at the time of the abduction.  Neither of them has really talked about it to me anyways, but then again, I never brought it up to them.  I imagine they may be a well of information, and I will try and bring it up as soon as possible.

On the other side of the family, my mother lived with her family in Hussar.  My grandma, whom I was speaking with today, doesn't really remember many details, other than the ones on the news.  She was questioned by police, as was everyone in the town, in terms of seeing anything suspicious.  They only lived two blocks away from the pay phone.  I remember talking to my mom about it a couple years ago, but I don't remember exactly what she said.

That being said, I'll poke my nose around over the next week and see what I information I can uncover.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on August 30, 2010, 11:26:25 PM
Thanks kingpin_19. That would be great if you can snoop and ask your family what they remember. And welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 30, 2010, 11:47:02 PM
Dub..... Dub.... are you listening?  Where in that whole comment, did I say anything about "The Village of Standard"?
The last posts (and previous page) had me thinking "small towns" .... as in Citizens, Mayor, Council, Police Force..... That's what small towns are.  That is what many of us have discussed many many times on many many threads.  ..the similarities of small towns and its' layers of Society.

You say The Village of Standard is not a town.  Well I thought it was a fair size town.  And if you care to read the other hundreds of threads on this site, you will probably come to the same conclusion about small towns.  They are all the same in my "opinion".

If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.  You can simply say, hey .... lostlinganer, we live in a village.  We don't have that small town concept, with double standards and people peeking out behind the curtains like flower pots, who miss nothing! yet, seem to know nothing! 

You know what I find strange about the fact that "thou dost seem to protest too much", I grew up in a small village, where the policing was done by the RCMP and we could go to bed at night and leave our doors unlocked.  I lived in that atmospere for over 30 years of my life before leaving for the city.  Now that I'm old, and have finally seen the results of corruption and cliques in the nearby small town; now that I've seen the corruption and cliques in small towns all across the country through this and other sites, I look back and say:  No wonder the priests were abusing the boys, no wonder so many young women were abused by school trustees and officials who nobody would dare question; No wonder there were dozen's of deaths in our area that went down as suicides - didn't matter if they were beaten to death, run down by a car and dragged for blocks, found dead in the local jail cells, found floating in the harbor.  I can't believe so many people in my old home town had their heads buried so far in the sand as long as I can remember.  I also can't believe how many hundreds of cases I've read of, and know of in small towns and neighborhoods across the country.... same thing... no foul play, suicide (never mind the person is beaten to a pulp) or their throat is cut, but they did it to themselves.   

If you live in a small community that is made up of everybody being equal.  Everybody has the same job opportunities; everybody has the same influence (nobody any more than anybody else) - well that is just wonderful.  I am so happy to know such a place exists.  I'll even apologize because you feel I was talking about a town called "Standard".  I'm so so sorry Dub, for misjudging your small town.  I have to say though; it's one in a million.  I don't know of any like it anywere else.  I know of tens of thousands of people who will say their small town is just like your village, but guess what: If you get to talk to the people of those towns who have no drag, no influence, no family with name or power, no "old family money", they'll tell you a whole other story.
 
All in all, Dub, I am really happy for you and I envy what you have.  And I am so sorry, from the bottom of my heart, that you thought I was directly targeting your village.  I wasn't; I was giving my opinion on small towns, in general - with "old family", "old money" -  that hand picks the mayor and police ((who nothing bad ever happens to) unless of course they cross one of their gangster friends! .... and its' other layer of society who has to "hear no evil, "see no evil", "speak no evil", if they know what's good for them.

For what it's worth Dub, I was actually talking about Husser, and also the Chin Lake area,  when I wrote the post.   So guess we'll hear from them some time.  I still stick to my opinion about "small towns in general"  they are all the same!  They live by the "Hazard County Principle".   If you don't agree with my opinion of small towns, that's fine, you can post your own opinion of small towns if you like.  I wasn't attacking The Village of Standard" per sa.  I'm sorry you felt that way.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: kingpin_19 on August 31, 2010, 12:59:37 AM
Hussar and Standard both have similar layouts and political structures.  I haven't spent as much time in Standard (my grandfather moved away from there a few years ago) as I have in Hussar, but the town is also governed by the RCMP.  The locals are generally very friendly with one another, but those who aren't familiar in the area - and haven't assimilated with those present living there - generally stick to themselves and are somewhat 'mysterious'.  Gossip, which is plentiful, is generally restricted to the people who are known within the town.  Hussar itself is a majority of the people who have lived there for years (I believe you referred to them as old families), their children and grandchildren.  Like you said in your post, lostlinganer, "If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it", and Hussar does not have the small town feel that you describe.  The only deaths I've heard of are drunk drivers, snowmobile accidents and seniors succumbing to cancer and what-not.  Suicides are rare, and normally happen to people in the area with drinking disorders - at least from what I've seen.  I do, however, understand what your 'small town' ideology is. 

I grew up in Drumheller - 30 minutes south of Hussar and governed by the RCMP - and definitely can tell you that the Town - not small, in terms of Alberta towns, as its the 14th largest in the province based on census figures from 2006 - does experience its fair share of "double standards and people peeking out behind the curtains like flower pots, who miss nothing! yet, seem to know nothing!".  However, that being said, the fact that the order is being controlled by the RCMP helps considerably, on the other hand, however, the judicial system and local courts, in my humble opinion, are somewhat corrupt.  I think that the 'small town' feel is more prevalent in slightly bigger municipalities, perhaps in towns with a population of 1 000 or more (Drumheller has a population base of nearly 8 000, while Hussar boasts a population of less than 200) where the town runs virtually on its own, with little support from other communities. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 31, 2010, 02:46:07 AM
Since Dub brought up about making one's blood boil.  He should read the facts on hundreds of threads on this site .... other sites as well.  Talk about somebody not knowing what they're talking about!  and spewing bull shit!

Quote
Lostlinganer your really going to have audacity to make a comment such of that? Reading your comments made my blood boil. You have no clue about anything to do with our Village, you have no clue about any of us who live there, you really have no clue about anything. But you're really going to come on here and make big comments such as those?
 
Nobody in this village was "trying to stay out of it". Everyone was doing whatever they could to help search for Kelly, to try and find information, to try and remember anything at all. Everybody was involved and it has haunted this village ever since.

Standard is not dominated by lawbreakers and bullies and crooked cops? You know why? Because there aren't any lawbreakers here, we don't have any crooked cops because we DON'T have police here. Strathmore RCMP were on this case, as they do look after the village of Standard. Standard residents are not a bunch of "small people", nor are they "uneducated"

So you know what? Next time you open your mouth and plan to spew a bunch of ignorant BS maybe you should have a clue what your even talking about.

Dub; you know what makes my blood boil?  - the facts that:

-Nobody got a good enough look at the stranger buying beer and using the phone!
-Nobody got a good enough description of the strange car in town!
-Nobody got the license plate number etc.
-Even after the fact that this precious young girl was abducted, God only knows what else?, then murdered, then achored down in Chin Lake, attendants at the Funeral Home didn't see fit to demand the identity of a stranger walking in demanding to view her body.  Someone should have followed him at least, if not have subdued him, and tied him down until police came.
-Then to top it all off, when a witness came forward, on this site, a member here - who had actually been in the presence of a known murderer  (that bragged about doing this to Kelly...even supplying unpublicized details of the crime) brought it to the attention of the authorities, but the authorities refuse to consider that this Perp. could have done what he bragged about.... Why .... because this perp., like many others, seems to have the goods on somebody in "authority".  ....otherwise known as "a protected informant" .... that's what is usually put on such murderer's file as an excuse to give them a "get out of jail free" card. 

It's like if everybody in Kelly's community wasn't paying attention.... I could see that before the crime... people not use to seeing a lot of strangers around, are also not use to paying particular attention to detail ..... but to have the animal make a return visit for probably no other reason than to make sure she was good and dead..... and let him walk away again!

These are things that should make one's blood boil!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 31, 2010, 05:39:19 PM
Ahh, unacustomed as I am to stepping into the middle of controversy, I must say that some of the latest comments have been fairly helpful. I got a pretty good feel for the community life around Standard/ Hussar from the last few posts. Stirring the pot has some benefits at times but mostly detracts from what we should be concentrating on.

I believe that the people of Standard were very concerned and attentive.
 
I believe there were people in Standard who reported a suspect description that has not been accurately reflected in the official description.
see- Standard news reports

I believe there is a suspect description available from the funeral home incident that is deliberately being with held.

I believe there is more of this sort of thing out there yet to be found.

It is heartening to see that Kelly's sister has joined the growing chorus of voices demanding answers. There should be an inquiry!!

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 31, 2010, 06:49:58 PM

As someone who works with electronic media quite a lot in the real world, I would like to remind people that although these sorts of online forums allow us to share our views and insights with multiple persons from various geographic areas, I would also like to point out that the online world can be fraught with peril. The Achilles' heel is that there is no vocal tone, no body language... none of the cues and signs that human beings have evolved to recognize and adapt to in order to facilitate effective interpersonal communication. As Marshal McLuhan so presciently stated, "The medium is the message." And on an online forum, the only way we have to communicate with others is through the text message itself. So it's important to choose our words carefully... a comment that the other person wouldn't think twice about if engaged in a face-to-face conversation with you can turn out to be very alienating if expressed only in cold hard letters on the computer screen. When in doubt, tone down the language, and even get another person (second point of view) to read your posting if you want to be absolutely sure. That's not to say we shouldn't communicate via online forums; rather, I'm saying that although it offers great potential, it also contains some shortcomings that we must recognize and adapt to.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Woodland on August 31, 2010, 07:01:53 PM
Dub - good for you for standing up for your community.  Only those that live there and have a history know the dynamics.  Others cannot give a valid view.

The rhetoric did not relate to your point - it was just rhetoric.

AaronP - I think you are quite correct, for the most part.  The handy reply button is just that - very handy.  A monthly fee to use it might help.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on August 31, 2010, 07:06:34 PM
As for the residents of Standard (back in 1981), I'm strongly against blaming them for this tragedy (e.g., failing to come up with 'adequate' descriptions of the suspect). As per a 1981 article on the case (Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p. 48), then mayor Elmer J. Jensen was quoted as saying: "People trust each other around here. We leave our houses unlocked and keys in our cars... it was trust which led to this... I just hope we haven't lost faith in each other."

Growing up in Calgary, I couldn't imagine anyone getting into a complete stranger's car - you didn't do that in the city. But it's unfair to view others only through your own biases and lenses. The only person who should be dumped on is Kelly's killer... not Kelly's parents for allowing her to go off with a stranger, not the original target who gave the killer Kelly's name and phone number, not the police, and not the Standard townsfolk. Just the killer(s).

Also keep in mind that following Kelly's abduction, some 500 residents from the village (Standard's 1981 population was 360) and surrounding communities participated in a mass search (Alberta Report, May 8, 1981, p. 48). Talk about community involvement! More than the entire population of Standard actively participated in the search for Kelly. They truly deserved kudos for that!

As for the man who, on July 2 (1981), paid a visit to the Calgary funeral home where Kelly's body was being kept, if police deliberately wanted to withhold information on that event, it's doubtful the news would have been given to the press. Maybe somebody from the funeral home did trail that man... I don't know. It was never reported whether anybody had. So let's not dump on the funeral home attendants... we don't know what they did. They obviously reported the event to police, which was what they should have done.




Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on August 31, 2010, 07:49:46 PM
To anyone from Standard, I apologize for being insensitive.  Point taken!

It has been almost 30 years.... that's a long time to withhold evidence???

I do hope the blood is boiling enough for family to demand that old evidence, and find some answers; aparently the RCMP  aren't using it.

Woodland, you could really give Dear Abbey a run for her money. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on August 31, 2010, 08:34:35 PM
I lived a good part of my life in rural Alberta, including in 1981. We did not lock the doors to our house or vehicles. Not during the day, not at night. Never. Everyone trusted one another. If there was an unknown person in town, of course it would be noticed, more out of speculation wondering if that person was a relative, a new resident, or a new employee somewhere. No one took notice of anyone for the reason that that person might be a criminal. There is a huge difference between the two in my mind. Crime was unheard of in the rural areas. There were no major publicized cases of children being abducted or murdered at that point in time. Olson hadn't been caught yet (that was after Kelly's remains were found), Adam Walsh's abduction hadn't occured yet, being two major cases in the media. Even had these cases been in the media before Kelly's abduction it is unlikely that rural southern Alberta would have changed their point of view on safety since those were crimes that happened elsewhere, in cities, in other provinces, in other countries...........  As you have all stated, no one is to blame besides the perpetrator(s) of this crime.

I will always be boggled by the fact that this DID occur in Standard. Why Standard of all places?

I agree that the people of the Village of Standard and outlying community did not with hold information. I believe that this crime hit every single person in that town very hard. I believe that it still does to this day. I also believe, however, that it is more than possible someone in the area DOES know something that is relevant to this case. As time ticks by evidence may be less and less, however, witness information may actually become more forthcoming as fear may become a diminishing factor governing potential witnesses.

I watched the interview on Global last night. I am very pleased that this case is receiving renewed media attention.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on August 31, 2010, 09:05:36 PM
Good to see everyone back on the same page again. What I gleaned from the latest exchange was something kingpin said about his grandmother: that
Quote
She was questioned by police, as was everyone in the town, in terms of seeing anything suspicious.  They only lived two blocks away from the pay phone.

The point being Kelly had viable choices if she had escaped her abductor. Its an important point that goes to the character of her abductor. brazen
That trait may show up again in unexpected places...

As for-
Quote
As for the man who, on July 2 (1981), paid a visit to the Calgary funeral home where Kelly's body was being kept, if police deliberately wanted to withhold information on that event, it's doubtful the news would have been given to the press.

The funeral home employees called the news reporters in. Anyone not think it is really strange to not have a suspect description from the funeral home incident? Any old Standard residents recall that incident?

I was there in Calgary the day the tv news reporter gave a very scant description of the funeral home suspect. It was being questioned whether this was the same man depicted in the official poi sketch.. The female reporter said and I quote to the best of my recollection: "The description varies enough that it might not be the same person but is similar enough that it could be. The main discrepancy is the age of the poi"

That was the only thing I heard said, the news said they were not to report on that description. One male funeral home employee disagreed and wanted to keep talking. He said they'd have to kill him to shut him up. Nothing more has been heard to this day.

To me this is a very important juncture, the brazen trait evidenced during the abduction up in Standard, then at the payphone in Hussar and the brazen conduct of the man in the funeral home appear the same. Is the official poi sketch flawed? Are we searching for a nonexistant poi?
 


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 12:43:28 AM
Quote
the brazen trait evidenced during the abduction up in Standard, then at the payphone in Hussar and the brazen conduct of the man in the funeral home appear the same

When I was sitting in Hussar last week, just thinking to myself what could have happened, I almost began to believe that this man wanted to get caught or something because of those reasons above. It just seems too odd, to twisted to think that someone could be so nuts but it does appear that maybe that is what we are dealing with.

I started to begin to believe solidly, that this man knew all along what he was doing, how, when and where. The only thing that did not work out was the original girl turned him down.

And I still cannot figure out Hussar. You do not accidently end up there. You intend to go there. It is not on the way to anything.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 01, 2010, 01:02:57 AM
Who says this was a stranger? Would a young girl get into a complete stranger's car to go, who knows where to babysit? The man used the name Christienson? (sp) Did Kelly recognize his voice, or something he said to make her feel comfortable in accepting the babysitting job? Such as, "so and so said you are a good babysitter. Would you like to babysit for me tonight at such and such a time?" As I understand it to be he phoned at 8:20 and picked her up at 8:30. That is a 10 minute window. What is 10 minutes away from Kelly's home? A phone booth? What shops were open at that time with a phone available? Or a place near to Kelly's home, where he could wait to the allotted time? What did Kelly say to her mother about this man who phoned asking her to babysit? Anyone know? What devices were used in that era to trace phone calls? Anyone know?
[/quote]

Growing up in Calgary, I couldn't imagine anyone getting into a complete stranger's car - you didn't do that in the city. But it's unfair to view others only through your own biases and lenses. The only person who should be dumped on is Kelly's killer... not Kelly's parents for allowing her to go off with a stranger, not the original target who gave the killer Kelly's name and phone number, not the police, and not the Standard townsfolk. Just the killer(s).

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:12:33 AM
They said it was from a local payphone, so I guess they did trace it. I think it was the no longer existent gas station near highway 1.

He really planned this good. Like her sister said, it was the perfect crime. Had the water level not dropped so much that year in Chin reservoir, it is possible nothing ever would have been found.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 01, 2010, 01:47:36 AM
Did Kelly have a boyfriend?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 01, 2010, 09:43:59 AM
What was Kelly like as a person?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on September 01, 2010, 10:43:17 AM

I've re posted a picture of Kelly (from an earlier post by AaronP) so that we will be reminded of her  in life. A beautiful, innocent child of 15.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 01, 2010, 10:48:40 AM
This discussion is getting quite lengthy but most of the questions you are asking sleuth are answered in previous posts.

Why Hussar Chris? The killer was around the area for several days at least before the abduction. Scouting, planning? The only phone booth for miles around was in Hussar. The intersection at Hussar gets you to the transcanada highway quite quicky where it can be crossed and linked to secondary roads that travel through quiet rural areas all the way to Chin Lake.

The funeral home incident disclosed that the poi may have some inside knowledge of police actions. If he knew that the attending police department was in Strathmore, and he was in Hussar, how long does it take the police from the time they are alerted to get to Hussar? How long would it take to get to the transcanada highway from Hussar? Maybe the suspect had been around this area before and knew some of the answers to this. He was aware of the figure skater before Kelly, her picture had been published in the Strathmore news. She was his original target.. Some of the planing he had for her could have easily been transfered over to Kelly. Strathmore may have even once been home to the suspect.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 01, 2010, 10:59:45 AM
Yes D1 I realize that. There is a reason why I asked again.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: art-hu on September 01, 2010, 12:25:59 PM
Similar to the abduction of Patrica Lupton, Toronto, On. 1959. Replied to a babysitting add, for a Mr. Johnson.
  Back in those days girls were excited to get a babysitting job to make a few bucks. People were quite trustworthy.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: kingpin_19 on September 01, 2010, 12:30:19 PM
If you want to reach the Trans-Canada, backroads or not, you don't go east to Hussar.  If you want to take backroads, you go south.  I mean, I've driven around that area many, many times.  It's where I learned how to drive.  At 10:00 at night, it's virtually deserted.  At 8:30 in April, it would be dark as well.  The main highways are not well lit at all.  The backroads, all go in south, east, west, or north.  If you wanted to get to the Trans-Canada on the backroads you'd go south on the backroads as far as you can, when you hit a dead-end, turn east or west and drive until you hit another southbound road, and then drive south, and so on and so forth.  You'd eventually hit the number one.  If you wanted to go to Hussar, you'd have to go further east than you would south, through Chancellor, and eventually you'd come into town by where the school is.  However, the payphone is closer to the 561, which is where I think the perp came in from.  These facts also tell me that either the Hussar payphone was an unrelated incident - ie. a kid (on holidays, playing around) - or that the perp had no idea where he was.  If she'd escaped, she probably wouldn't run along the highway, she'd be running along the backroads, towards the nearest light.  If the perp was taking her south, towards the number one, on the backroads, it would either be Standard, to the north, or the Gulf Station at the junction of the 561 and the 842, or any of the other farms in the area.  If you want to take secondary highways, the 842 takes you directly south to Cluny, through the reserve, to Milo, through Lomond on the 845, and then backroads past Coaldale (Google Map it)

So, why Hussar? Was the perp lost? Was this, as D1 suggested, a meticulously planned attempt to throw the police off?  Maybe he got lost, was trying to figure out where he was, when Kelly landed him a good one to the head, rendering him momentarily senseless, and then escaped? Perhaps the local Hussar folk didn't hear the curfuffle at the phone booth because a train was going by, or, at that moment, a heavy gust of wind was blowing? But, I can't figure out Hussar!

Also, the fact that he changed targets so willingly tells me that it was a planned activity, but he didn't have a planned target.  He was likely on a time frame which required him to do it on the 22nd.  He probably didn't know the area very well, got lost trying to get away (under duress), she escaped momentarily when he was trying to figure out where they were, she got recaptured and voila.  That's my theory.  Flame away.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jobo on September 01, 2010, 02:19:52 PM
I agree that this crime was a planned activity, but the perp didn't have a planned target...he just changed targets when the first young girl was not available to babysit.  I also agree with the theory that the crime had to be done before the 22nd.  Which makes me believe the theory that he is/was a travelling sales rep  or some other vocation that required him to travel to that area.  And he knew when he would be there, and how much time he had.
But....I think he planned to do the crime in Hussar, near that Dead Horse Lake area...he may have known a perfect spot, from all his travels around there.   And I think that he did attack Kelly around Hussar (30 km east of Standard)....and Kelly talked him into letting her call her parents, (because they were waiting for the call, and 1 1/2 hours had passed, they might call the cops).. So, he figures, okay, that gives me more time to get out of here, a head start..So she calls, but just starts screaming....and he panicks and gets mad and takes off out of town, quickly, with her.  Atthis point he has to get rid of her, he didn't plan to leave Hussar with her.   So, somewhere down the highway, to home, he did murder her, but kept her body in the trunk all the way south to Chin Lakes Reservior...where, once again, he was familiar with the area, and could get the cinder blocks he needed. 
 I think he was from Lethbridge..and that's how Kelly ended up so far south.......that's my take on this.  ;)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 01, 2010, 02:34:45 PM
Lots of good points, fodder is in no short supply. Keep at it..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 01, 2010, 06:42:37 PM

Who says this was a stranger? Would a young girl get into a complete stranger's car to go, who knows where to babysit? The man used the name Christienson? (sp) Did Kelly recognize his voice, or something he said to make her feel comfortable in accepting the babysitting job? Such as, "so and so said you are a good babysitter. Would you like to babysit for me tonight at such and such a time?" As I understand it to be he phoned at 8:20 and picked her up at 8:30. That is a 10 minute window. What is 10 minutes away from Kelly's home? A phone booth? What shops were open at that time with a phone available? Or a place near to Kelly's home, where he could wait to the allotted time? What did Kelly say to her mother about this man who phoned asking her to babysit? Anyone know?

Did Kelly have a boyfriend?

What was Kelly like as a person?


The answers to all the above questions are on 'page' 12 of this online forum.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on September 01, 2010, 07:37:15 PM

...and Kelly talked him into letting her call her parents, (because they were waiting for the call, and 1 1/2 hours had passed, they might call the cops).. So, he figures, okay, that gives me more time to get out of here, a head start..So she calls, but just starts screaming....and he panicks and gets mad and takes off out of town, quickly, with her.


I highly doubt that the killer would have ever contemplated letting Kelly near a phone. You don't have to be a criminal to know that taking such a step would stand you in a position with nothing to gain, but a lot to lose. Also, the call from the phone booth was placed to an operator, not Kelly's house.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jobo on September 01, 2010, 09:22:13 PM
I would think he used the original intended target's name, because Kelly obviously knew her, as she gave Kelly's name.  That would put Kelly more at ease, as she and the other girl had given each other's names in the past. ( This is just my surmizing..). The name Christensen is a common name in that area.  This is sooo  small town Alberta...  In fact, I was just browsing through info on Hussar, checking out the pics, and there was a pic of a sign that said "Caring for Alberta Highways"...then there is a smaller sign hanging down that says 'C Christensen Family....I think my jaw dropped.
I realize she didn't call home...she perhaps thought the Operator would be able to trace the call, whereas her parents wouldn't have a chance, because she wouldn't be able to tell them she was in Hussar at that point.....her odds of survival were better if she called 911 or Operator,  I would think. 
 What if Kelly persuaded the perp's thinking and told him that her parents were such worriers, and knew everyone in town, and would contact everyone, even the police, if she didn't call home sooner, rather than later,( or never.)    So he thought, well that would give me a head start, if I took her back into the Lake area (after her call) and assaulted and murdered her, left her there and go on my merry way south to Lethbridge.  Maybe he didn't really plan to murder her, just assault and leave her around Hussar. That lake area. 
But....she screamed......his head just went for a loop, 'cause for some reason he believed she would be calm perhaps she had been all along, perhaps she was a thinker, and put up with his abuse, but all the while trying to figure out a way to get out alive.  And calm seemed to work with him...for some reason, he trusted her...? And when SHE broke his trust, he just bolted with her, and murdered her very soon afterward, but took her body around 180 kms. south, before disposing of it.. I mean we are talking about a cold blooded murderer of a young woman (maybe more, who knows)..who knows how they really think, but it has been proven over and over again that man can do some pretty unimaginable things to another poor soul....  Just throwing that out there..;)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 11:09:41 PM
Hi  SoCruel, thanks for sharing that. It is so sad for her family and the folks in the town. It seems this is one of those cases where litterly no one has any clue as to what happened. I hope over time, Standard will be able to move on and not be worried someone else will fall victim.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 02, 2010, 12:03:36 AM
This crime was so over the top no one who ever heard about it ever forgot. Speculation aside, there is really very little that hasn't already been said. I had hoped that someone from the area would have recalled events like the funeral home incident and could maybe provide a better suspect description. We need some new information to work with. I will leave my hopes and prayers for that to materialize. Keep passing Kelly's story and information around, many people, older folks in particular, aren't using this medium.. The people who would be most valuable to this discussion probably don't even realize that they may hold some important information or that anyone is seeking it still.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 02, 2010, 12:18:18 AM
Yes I realize that AaronP. There is a reason for my asking. Again.


The answers to all the above questions are on 'page' 12 of this online forum.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on September 02, 2010, 12:33:05 AM
I sort of doubt he got bail since he was a foreigner charged with a serius crime.

But whaat I was wondering if he was with another creeep who he was sopposed to meet up with? It has happened. It just seems weird to me considering how relatively close to those towns are located and how rare these crimes were in 1981.

That was pretty coincidental and suspicious, the two abductions so close together but there was no opportunity for the perp to have been involved in Kelly's murder.


Sorry for a lenghty post...have some ground to cover.

With our bleeding heart liberal justice system where they'd rather give "bad guys" a hug and a cozy bed to sleep in then actually serve up real justice, apparently you CAN get bail if you are a foreigner.  This Doctor (an anesthesiologist) from the USA was in Toronto for a conference and he invited a 23 year old woman, who he knew, to his room.  Once there, he drugged her then sexually assaulted her.  To top it all off, he then assaulted one of the officers when they arrested him and he was STILL granted bail.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/04/28/american-doctor-wins-bail-on-toronto-sexual-assault-charges.aspx

Granted, these are two completely different incidents and 28 years between them, but serious offenses none the less with a bail granting.

Was Bordelon granted bail after his first appearance?  Nothing says he was or wasn't.  It's just as easy to assume he was jailed as it is to say he was granted bail.  Unless I misread the article, all the main/original article says is he was facing charges and deportation.  I'd say there was an 80/20 chance he made bail as he never assaulted the girl although he drove for 2-3 hours looking for a hotel of "his liking"...sounds more like he didn't know what to do with his victim and was thinking “I’ve got her in the car, now what do I do”.  I'd be willing to bet if he was out on bail, one of his conditions was he not leave the province.  The way the articles are written, it is not clear if he was remanded the entire time or if he made bail.  In reference to the first article where it talks of the abduction, all it says was Bordelon was facing charges & deportation.  Then there is no more mention of this incident in the Olds Gazette papers until April 29th where the article says he was being remanded until May 4 for a psychological evaluation.  Then after that-nothing.  Like there was a publication ban or something. The 29th, of course is a week after Kelly disappeared and 3 weeks between court appearances if he was out on bail.  Plenty of time to finish what he started, but with somewhat better planning and put this planning into action on April 18th.  Who knows just how long he was in the province doing God knows what before the Olds abduction as well.  Maybe he was in Strathmore for a short time in late March but didn't have the balls to phone target #1.  The girl from Olds could have been somewhat of a "dry run" to see if he could go through with it, although she fortunately got away and he was arrested.  This first abduction did happen March 27th to support the "dry run" theory.  Maybe evil was on his just side enough there was a sympathetic judge in that Leduc courtroom that day of his first appearance who granted him bail and while out, he went & did what he originally set out to do...or he had a slimeball defense lawyer who managed to get his client bail. 

Maybe someone reading this forum will recall what happened in this case and what happened to this Bordelon character.  It would be very interesting to know if he was granted bail or remanded since his arrest and what the results of his psych evaluation was in May.  Unfortunately, I do not have any "people in the know" contacts who would be able to dig this, in my eyes, very important information up.  I'm not saying Bordelon should be labelled a suspect, but don't discount him either until someone can show some sort of definitive proof this guy was staying at the crowbar hotel from April 1st to May 4th of '81.  The only thing which bugs me about Bordelon is you would think his "New O-lins" accent would be very out of place, especially a place like Standard.  If the guy who arranged things with Kelly asked a trucker and a gas attendant how to use the phone, one would think they would remember such a distinguishable accent.  As he spoke with target #1 and the principal as well, you’d think they too would remember this key identifier...unless he disguised it somehow to sound more "Canadian", or like Chris said, he had a helper from this neck of the woods.  As Bordelon travelled from Louisiana to Alberta by car, he would have come up through the Coutts border crossing and could have been familiar with Chin Lakes.  Who knows, maybe he stayed in a hotel in Strathmore and as most hotels give a complimentary copy of the local newspaper in the lobby or the rooms, maybe this is where he saw target #1.  Anyways, enough about Bordelon on my behalf...I just find it interesting there is very little information about what happened to him, what the end result was from his arrest and if he was released on bail or not.

I also wanted to point out four extreme similarities in the Olds abduction & Kelly’s abduction:
1) “Very small town” Alberta.  Olds' population couldn't have been more than 2500 in '81, Standard is a village.
2) Both girls were in their mid-teens and driven to locations a couple of hours away from where the girls were abducted.
3) Both towns are mere miles from a major highway.
4) Both girls were NOT sexually assaulted, although ample opportunity was there.

Two abductions of two similarly aged girls from two small towns located two hours from each other within three weeks of each other REEKS of more than a mere coincidence.  I find myself wondering not if but how these two cases are related.

I still believe Kelly's killer did not intend to kill her so soon (if at all), or killed her by "accident" before he was able to sexually assault her (police report confirmed Kelly wasn't sexually assaulted).  How many abductions-by-stranger committed on females do you hear of where the abducted female wasn't sexually assaulted? Not many.  He panicked after killing her and knowing of Chin Lake, dumped her there.  In one of my first posts, I stated Kelly probably escaped from him and made her way to Hussar which others have been suggesting lately.  One thing which seems to be overlooked about Kelly was she too was a figure skater and the figure skating season was either just wrapping up or was just over with by Easter meaning she was probably pretty strong for a teenage girl and in pretty decent shape cardiovascularly; I'm assuming her killer underestimated her strength and she injured him somehow and was able to escape for a short time.  There has to be someone out there who has/had a relative, a friend, or a co-worker who noticed some strange scratches and/or bruising or possibly torn clothing (like a jacket or sweater) in the days after her disappearance which was explained away.  It may have been a believable story easily explained away or maybe it was a bizarre story and the story-teller was exhibiting nervous behavior while explaining the injuries or torn clothing...but nothing was thought of it at the time.  Alot of stuff like scratches & bruises can be explained away but even the slightest memory of something like this could trigger a new lead and could lead to an arrest.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Sleuth on September 02, 2010, 12:44:56 AM
Well thought out CCF!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 02, 2010, 06:46:42 PM
CCF: good points. I truly assumed that after he was caught and he was held in custody and during that time it was decided he would under go a psych analysis. But you're completely right, it may not be reasonable to assume that, our justice system is notorious for letting people out on their own recognizance and/or on bail.

Anyone know how this can be researched?

Could this indicate the reason why someone would feel a time constraint? Knowing that a decision regarding their freedom is just around the corner and has to get the 'crime' done?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 06, 2010, 10:26:33 AM
It was posted some time ago that the man who called Kelly that morning used the payphone at a gas station out of town and had difficulty placing the call from the pay phone. That two calls were made to the Cook house that morning, the first being one where the caller was not there, the second resulting in the request for Kelly to babysit.

I wonder what adult living in Alberta for any length of time, would not know how to use the pay phone? Was the murderer just unfamiliar with the payphones or had he not spent much time in Alberta. Since this is long before the age of cell phones, pay phones were used much more frequently.

AGT (Alberta Government Telephones) was solely in charge of Alberta telecommunications at that time. That might mean that payphones in other provinces or in the US may not have worked in the exact same way.  There were explicit written instructions on the phone itself. If my memory is correct, you lifted the receiver and dialed the number. When the person answered the phone, you deposited the change and then were able to proceed with your conversation. If you didn't deposit the change, the call wouldn't proceed and after a few seconds the operator would come on. If you picked up the receiver without dialing the number I believe the operator would come on to offer assistance. Some time after the early 80's the phones were changed to a more logical way, where you inserted the coins after you lifted the receiver but before you dialed the number.

Did the caller not know how to operate the payphone as he had either never used one before (never had the need or it was a different system than what he was used to) AND did not take the time to read the instructions as he was in a hurry or very nervous about placing the call, or could not read? The previously posted information that indicated he talked to the gas station attendant and a trucker that morning at the gas station, when trying to place the calls could have been his own demise - they saw him, spoke to him, observed his demeanor and mannerisms that morning, and likely saw his vehicle. That is likely where the composite sketch came from and the description of the car.

I just have to wonder, what, if anything, it means that he didn't know how to operate the pay phone. Does it speak to his own native geography, to his ability to read, to his nervousness or just to his lack of experience with the pay phone system itself. 

It was also previously posted that he may have purchased a case of beer that day. Was this a way to reduce nerves or to build up courage?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Baba Donya on September 06, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
Bingo...Haunted!!!

I believe he could not read English, either. I do believe he was a foreigner of some description. The darker shade of skin is a giveaway. The only thing I cannot understand, and it may never have been released to the public, was whether or not he had an accent.

As this town and others around it had probably very little experience with other cultures, and if he was new in town, he would stand out. He may have been someone who even looked for vacant homes. Pretended he was going to buy in the area....But the Lethbridge theory, is a good one, because he would be able to blend better there.

I do have to say, if she screamed in a small town, EVERYONE HEARS IT!!!

Why the people of Hussar are not coming forward I do not know. :(
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: justice on September 06, 2010, 09:43:24 PM
Ok, so I may be jumping ahead here before finishing this entire thread, but I had to post while I thought of a few things...
-I think I read somewhere on here that Terry Arnold had sexually assaulted girls before Kelly Cook's murder, can anyone confirm that I did read this

- I have heard many times that 18-19 approx is the age where serial killers tend to start becoming more deviant sexually due to the levels of testosterone.  Think of it this way, for a normal teenage guy this age, this is the age of their sexual primes.  Now add that fact to a social deviant and this would make a great deal of sense.

- Is there anyone on here that lives in or near the vicinity of where this occurred, is the funeral home still in existence, do any of the same people still work there or a younger generation family member, coud someone  who lives in the vicinity state they were doing research regarding this case or Terry Arnold and ask if any of the employees has any info,memories, desrciptions, etc. 

-were there any names in the family's condolense book named Christenson or T Arnold or T Barbe or something like that.  Look at evidence with Stoppel finding the card from her funeral with terry arnolds or his mother's name on it.

-Again as someone previously mentioned, the ropes tying Kelly to the blocks, could the police be asked info regarding how they were found attached to her, if this is something that isn't known by the general populance, this could put some credence to D1 (I think it was D1's encounter with TA)  or were there any hairs fibres, etc, attached to these ropes that were not attributed to Kelly.

Just some thoughts I had, sorry if others have thought of them, like I said, I am only on page 21.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Baba Donya on September 06, 2010, 09:48:13 PM
Des,

Was it an assumption, that the perp got the skater's name from the paper/media?  Is there proof where he got her name, he could have gathered all that information by asking around?  Sometimes people in small towns talk more than they should. Especially, then, when this town's innocence was not yet shattered because of what happened to Kelly Cook.

What if the perp, just so happened to come upon her (the skater) at the restaurant/cafe she was working at? Could it be that is when he began his information gathering -stalking/waiting game, possibly?

Alot of illiterate and/or immigrants rely on creatively asking people questions, so that they do not have to learn to read. It becomes a way of doing things in a world of literacy for these individuals. It is a way of survival for them.

eg. In a restaurant, the person will ask the waitress, "What is the special?" or "What would you recommend for me to eat?" On paper these questions look very innocent, but it is the type of phrasing these people rely on. These phrases are the kinds of phrases illiterate people rely on so their illiteracy will not be discovered.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: justice on September 06, 2010, 11:56:33 PM
I had another thought, does anyone who knows names of any of the suspects know their mother's maiden name, wife's maiden name, old girlfriend, etc, or I know this seems really to simple, does anyone know any of the suspects father's names, eg] Christian, Christian's son... or are there any street names in Standard Hussar etc, named Christensen, I to at first thought, thought that Chin lake had a significant meaning, now I am wondering if the name Christensen itself has a significant meaning beyond a common name.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jobo on September 07, 2010, 08:43:34 AM
Like I said on one of my earlier posts.....I was browsing through pictures of Hussar....and there is a sign that says "Caring for Alberta Highways"  with another sign at the bottom...C.Christensen family........I assume that the picture is recent... BUT when were that sign first used?...Were they in the town back in the '80's?
I will venture to say that Christensen is and was a popular name in Standard/Hussar area.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 07, 2010, 06:19:03 PM
good deductions baba and jobo - I'll bet someone from that town knows the history well enough to address the subject of the signs. Baba; you are so right about guys from other countries etc. developing phrases and questions to accomodate their lacking literary skills. 

I went to dinner one evening with an old friend.... someone I new casually for years.  He was very well liked and respected.  We sat down to eat and he said "What would you recommend?"  I had to haul out my glasses to read the menu; once I did, he reached inside to his inside pocket and hauled out his glasses.  He then admitted he couldn't read the menu without his glasses, but didn't want me to see him in them.  It was way too funny at the time, but he used to do that whenever he was with people who didn't wear glasses... especially since he always dated women a few years younger than him. 

Baba has nudged my memories back to many situations like this..... especially how many people I've actually seen just as she said.  They can't read well enough, so they trick someone into doing it for them, or they follow somebody else's lead.  And we all know when we see a "Proper Name" on a sign, it's attached to the history of that neighborhood.  Since that area wasn't an "old" community, it would be safe to assume that this was a somewhat influencial name, or at least well known in that town.  Good thinking for someone wanting to have credibility with a potential baby sitter.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 07, 2010, 06:29:14 PM
justice; you are correct about Terry Arnold.  This was an MO typical of him ...stalking, brazen taunting, and lack of fear of being caught.  It wasn't just Barbara Stoppel; there were a few others.  I seem to recall him stalking and attacking a girl outside the carnival (which he was working in) .... and that girl may have been BS.  ....and I would have to dig a bit, maybe someone else can verify, but I think Terry Arnold was 20ish at the time.... as always looked weather beaten and older.... poxy skin type.

I still wonder - and I know it's been brought up before - Was there a carnival around the area at the time.  Carnivals and travelling circuses start up around May in Eastern Canada, so I would expect they would be April out West because they warm up at least a month ahead of the East Coast.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Baba Donya on September 09, 2010, 08:50:15 PM
Thanks, Lost, and I was wondering the same thing too...was there a carnival, fair, even in Lethbridge...wait, wait wait....how close is Drumhellar to this town...got to look....I wonder.......
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: haunted on September 10, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
I don't think this guy would have had an accent as that would have been hugely reported in the media and around the area amongst the locals.  Foreign accents in rural Alberta were not too common back then. Most of the rural/farming communities did not have a lot of diversity in culture, nationality or language. An accent would have been a real clue for the public and considering this guy talked to the first intended victim, talked to Kelly, talked to the school and talked to the trucker and gas station attendant, there were ample opportunities for someone to note an accent, even a slight one, but that has never been reported to my knowledge.

There are fairs/carnivals in the summer months around many communities and in living in Southern Alberta in the 80's, I am not familiar with any occuring in the month of April. Also this was near Easter that year and it seems odd to have a fair or carnival at that time.  That seems early to me for that, but perhaps others familiar with the area back then could comment further.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on September 10, 2010, 03:36:18 PM
I take special notice to the fact that this perp even called the school.  The only time I've ever seen a (guy interested in getting with a certain girl) go to such an extreme, was if the girl already knew him from another meeting (if you will) and thus he is sending a message (by means of this bold, brave move of even calling the school) to let her know how much he wants to get to know her better..... how it's a kind of "love at first site" message .... so that she will submit to his game, and finally agree to meet with him.  When I was 14 yrs old, I had such things occur in my community.  Some guys are pro's at impressing girls with such bold (seemingly heoic jestures).  I hope this beautiful young thing, so naive, wasn't drawn into such a potential "my first prince" ferry tale.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on September 21, 2010, 08:50:00 PM
That is an interesting point Lost, almost suggests a younger maybe 20ish individual with an infatuation.

re: looking for published reports. It would be nice if everything was just spelled out in black and white but it doesn't always happen that way.

A cop explains their quandry in this example from:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040129215958/http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/issues02/041102/news/041102nn4.html

copy of this news article moved to Terry Arnold thread.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg34568.html#msg34568 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.msg34568.html#msg34568)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: 30 years on November 15, 2010, 11:31:11 PM
Growing up in Calgary, I couldn't imagine anyone getting into a complete stranger's car - you didn't do that in the city.

As stated in my prior posting, I went to school with Kelly however I did not mention that we were the same age.  I  spent my teenage years growing up in the city though, so I have to disagree with your statement Arron.  I started babysitting at 12 years old.  I took my babysitting course as soon as I was old enough to do so.  And back then, after passing the course your name was actually posted and there where many, many times I never knew who I was babysitting for.  However, I do not recall ever having a man make the arrangements for me to babysit. 

I also have to comment on a posting that I read regarding the payphones that someone had made.  It was a surprise to me reading the statement that in the past you dialed the number, were connected, then you put your money into the payphone.  Again I have to disagree, as I had never knew that was how payphones use to work.  As stated Kelly and I were the same age and back then all I can ever recall is phonecall costing 10 cents and you put the money in prior to making the call.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on November 16, 2010, 01:42:52 AM
I think you are right. I remember using payphones and never recalled having to insert money first. Even back in 1981.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: capeheart on November 16, 2010, 10:58:38 AM
30 years, you are correct on that, you put your money in and then you dialed your number, just as it is now, only more money. If you were making a collect call, you contacted the operator with your dime and she got in touch with the person and they had to accept your call. I know  that because I remember an incident of when my mom had an accident when we went skating. I had to call my dad and it was hard to make him understand he had to accept the call from the operator. It's funny when I think of it now. But you are absolutely correct on the phone call, put the money in and dial the number. That is exactly how it works now also. :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 07:16:10 PM
Kelly remains in everyone's hearts but as time has passed most hopes of finding her killer have faded. Justice will likely have to come from the other side of the big fence now.

I have said alot in the past about a confession of sorts that I was privy to many years ago. I did not realize at first nor intend to have to stick up for Terry Arnold's honesty in the way he related the events. He was a complete and utter waste of skin from one end to the other. To avoid interpretation as much as I could, I did not mention all of what I felt about various points of his story. One being the phone call from the phone booth. I believe that he was there with Kelly but I recall at the time when listening to his story, that I didn't believe his interpretation of motive for the call. I was left with the feeling that whatever happened here, was what triggered him to kill her. 

His smug, I wanted to let the skater know who she was dealing with and leave a lasting impression was likely all bull, an after thought in his own mind to preserve his illusions of grandeur or whatever a slime like that does in there to justify his warped shit.

I don't know if it was long distance from Hussar to Standard at the time, if a dime only got the operator or what, but I suspect that Kelly thought she had one chance, had been holding it in and let loose as soon as she heard a voice, any voice but his. This may have been Arnolds first murder, a murder that if solved could have saved many more lives since. Kelly leaves us a story if any one will listen, a story of something as secret and evil and deadly as her murderer, something that still lurks behind closed doors to this day!

I have  tried to get people to go into the Calgary news paper, find an old teacher or any one paying attention back then to get the original reports from the Calgary funeral home. There you will find a similar description of Kelly's killer only a younger version. The police had the choice at the time which description to go with, they chose the older. The case would never be solved as a result.

There was a young man maybe early twenties who worked at the funeral home back then, he swore to the news camera that he knew the guy was only late teens or twenties. Everyone media included was ordered by the RCMP to not mention that description ever again. Most everyone complied one way or the other.

There was a single vehicle accident several weeks later on a fairly slow straight stretch leaving the Calgary funeral home, one lone male occupant found dead.

Things have gone fairly quiet for Kelly as of late, she should know there were people who knew and who tried more than anyone down here will ever know. Interpret as you will, look the other way if you wish. The truth is still out there to be found but most would just as soon let it die with Kelly.

Maybe, just maybe Kelly works in mysterious ways though, for surely there is no hope otherwise!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: GernB on January 05, 2011, 04:20:52 PM
Been reading this thread all morning and must say it's fascinating.
I was graduating from the University of Lethbridge in the spring of 1981 and remember the disappearance and murder quite clearly. A couple of points I can make.

Pay phones - dialing the number first and then dropping the coin was common in rural Alberta in the 70s and early 80s. I grew up near a small town just north of Lethbridge and this is the way the phones operated there, though in Lethbridge the coin was inserted first.

IIRC, Hwy 36 from Taber to Warner was not paved until the mid 80s, though I could be off by a few years. The road was narrow and rough, following the rural road allowances and would not seem to have been a natural route for someone not familiar with the area to have taken, perhaps indicating that the murderer had preplanned the body disposal site.

FWIW, the general belief in Lethbridge at the time was that someone from the Taber-Wrentham area was involved. Just gossip I suppose, but very widely held.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 06, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
Quote
Taber-Wrentham

I think that is probably accurate. I just do not see someone not familiar with the area just happening to show up there.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 10, 2011, 12:03:36 AM
Someone keeps posting, and then taking away teh posts.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 10, 2011, 09:14:38 AM

Attached are two close-up pictures of the bridge crossing Chin Lakes (where Kelly Cook's body was found). These pics also provide a good view of the lake itself (Kelly's body was found 200 yards away from the bridge on the north side of the lake, though I do not recall it being reported which side of the bridge the body was dumped).

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 10, 2011, 09:21:59 AM

If you have access to youtube, look for the following video:

The Lions Fight for Standard

This video is about the Lion Club's determination to ensure Standard remains a vibrant rural village. The video takes you on a drive throughout Standard, so you get to see a lot of the village. Elmer Jenson, who was Standard's mayor in 1981 when Kelly Cook was abducted, appears in this video. I'm not sure how much Standard has changed since 1981 and when this video was made almost 30 years later, but it does nevertheless provide a good overview as to Standard's layout, size, and character.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 10, 2011, 09:39:25 AM
The Lions Fight for Standard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZYNaVUqXRc#ws)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 10, 2011, 11:26:46 PM
Thanks!

Standard is pretty much the same except for some new homes on the edge of town. with the loss of grain elevators and rail service, it is not growing.

Kelly went missing from the new side of town, on the very east. so her killer did not even have to drive thru town, just picked up, and turned onto the highway.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 11, 2011, 02:05:59 PM

The Village of Standard's website provides a pic with a relatively good aerial view of the village:

http://www.standardab.ca/about.htm (http://www.standardab.ca/about.htm)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 11, 2011, 03:22:49 PM
great pics on that link Aaron ... it really gives one a feeling for the place.  I especially linked the couple of historic pic.  I do a lot of historic research and genealogical research myself. 

It looks as if this little community is relatively isolated, by miles, from neighboring communities.  You would think it would be quite an attraction for people who are financially comfortable enough, and wanting to settle in a country environment.  It really is a beautiful spot.

This in mind, I can't help but think how easy it was for the perp who abducted poor little Kelly back then.  Communities of that nature were probably very layback and trusting back then.  Imagine the shock.  For sure these people would be forever impacted upon by that mindbogglingly event. 

I wish someone would confess knowing something ... to the point that this deplorable killer is pointed out.  Memories fade, and witness pass away after all that time, but the key piece of evidence might be a little fact that a person doesn't even, and didn't even know was a fact.  I can picture things like a child looking out a window and seeing car lights ... or a person walking down a road and having a strange car pass them by... (maybe wondering why they weren't offered a "lift".... some little thing like that would have stuck out in my mind growing up in our relatively isolated community.)  When I was growing up, if a strange car came by at night while I was walking between home and somewhere else, I was always afraid this stranger would stop; and felt relief when the passed on by.  I think you get my drift.

There could be someone out there, now maybe in their midlife, who noticed some little thing that night, and doesn't even realize what they noticed.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 04:38:41 PM

Calgary Herald, page A1 (front page), Friday, April 24, 1981

"Nobody's even heard of him," Strathcona RCMP sergeant John Kusalik said of the man who picked her up. "So where the hell did she go?"
Kusalik said the girl was to babysit until midnight then return home. He said the girl has no history of running away from home and had no reason to leave.

Cindy Krabsen, Kelly's best friend, said Kelly would never run away from home, nor did she have a steady boyfriend. "She's not the type that would just jump into things," Krabsen said as she patiently waited for news outside the Cook home.

Another friend, Signe Neilsen, said she was talking on the telephone to Kelly about a half-hour before the man picked her up. "She was asking if I heard of a guy named Bill Christensen," and Neilsen replied that she hadn't.

[Walter] Cook said his daughter found nothing unusual about the man who called. "Christensen out here is like Smith and Jones in the city." He and his wife have not slept since their daughter disappeared. Cook said his wife is very upset.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 04:41:43 PM

Calgary Herald, page A1 (front page), Monday, April 27, 1981

Police say the vehicle may have been an off-white 1975 North American car. The man is described as being 40 to 45 years old, five feet, 10 inches tall and weighing about 180 pounds. He is medium to heavy build, curly brown hair, with a tanned and heavily creased face.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 04:46:10 PM

Calgary Herald, page D22, Thursday, July 2, 1981 (obituary section)

Cook - June 30, 1981, Kelly Jane Evelyn, aged 16 years, beloved daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Walter Cook of Standard, Alberta and sister of Marnie and Heath. Kelly is also survived by her maternal grandparents, Mr. and Mrs. Ernest Nixon of Standard. Services will be held at the Nazareth Lutheran Church, Standard, Alberta, Friday July 3, 1981, at 2:00 p.m. Pastors Orlo and Christine Lund officiating. Interment Standard Cemetery. THE GARDEN CHAPEL (Foster Funeral Home), 540 - 16 Ave. N.W. Directors.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 16, 2011, 04:59:25 PM
Aaron; you managed to dig up a few things we had wondered about before... specifics on the funeral
                                                                                                                       ...  specifics on the perp
                                                                                                                       ...  specifics on the car

I never had a clear picture of these 3 items.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 05:16:27 PM

Calgary Herald, page B1, Saturday, July 4, 1981

'Hundreds attend funeral of Kelly Cook'

More than 200 Standard residents mourned the tragic death of 15-year-old Kelly Cook here Friday.

"We felt overwhelmed by the evil in the world," Pastor Christine Lund told the sobbing congregation at Standard's Nazareth Lutheran Church, where Kelly's funeral service was held... Lund recalled her first visit to the Cook's house months ago. She said Kelly invited her into the house and, while her parents were out but due to return soon, put on a pot of coffee and offered her a plate of cookies. The two chatted and Kelly talked about her love for figure skating.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 05:25:16 PM

Calgary Herald, Page A1 (front page), Saturday, April 10, 1982

'Police seek Kelly mourner'

RCMP Inspector George Foulon says investigators want to speak with a man who visited a Calgary funeral parlor last July where Cook's body was being held after an autopsy before it was shipped to Standard. Foulon told The Herald that the man walked into the funeral home during the early evening of July 2 claiming to be a friend of the Cook family and "requested to view the body." He was told he could not and he left.

The Cook family has told police they were unaware of any friends of theirs who had tried to view the body in the Calgary funeral home. Nor was it public knowledge that the body was in the funeral home. He [Foulon] described the man as being in his mid to late 30s, about five feet, 11 inches tall and 165 to 170 pounds. He was heavy set and had a dark complexion.

Foulon also revealed that police want to track down a man who made the occasional regular visit to the Standard Hotel bar for a game of pool prior to Cook's abduction. Foulon said the man appeared in the bar maybe "a half a dozen times every five weeks or so" and played a few games of pool. He said the man, who apparently never gave anybody his name, and who appeared to avoid conversation, would shoot a few games of pool with the barmaid, drink a couple of beers, and leave. "He seemed to avoid conversation over who he was" and where he was from, Foulon said in an interview.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 16, 2011, 06:33:11 PM
Aaron; would this be the suspect who committed suicide?  if not, how could he make that many trips to the pool table with a partner to play, and nobody in Standard know his name.  That is so unlikely that I can only assume, the waitress or poolers did give a first name at least, and probably a good description; but it either didn't pan out, (he disappeared) or the guy had an alibi.

So there's more we might never know. 

The people in Standard really must have had a horrible time while Kelly was missing ... and especially through the service!  It's a wonder they didn't find that guy themselves and string him up.  Maybe that would have been for the best.  It seems the average person is a lot more determined and focused.  Police don't feel the pain like we do; they've seen so much, and have so many directions to have to give attention to!

Good job Aaron.  You would make a good detective.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 16, 2011, 06:52:26 PM

"Good job Aaron.  You would make a good detective."


Actually, all I did was basic research, not detective work. That suspect from the Standard Hotel bar - that was announced by the police 29 years ago. Obviously, the lead didn't pan out, either because they couldn't track the guy down or because they did track him down and confirmed he didn't do it. Back in 1986, police confirmed they had eliminated over 2,000 possible murder suspects. And that was 25 years ago! The police surely know more about this case than anyone posting on this site, myself included. As several other persons have surmised, police may strongly suspect who did it but simply lack the evidence to convict and/or declare the case officially solved.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 16, 2011, 07:10:24 PM
One would think the same evidence in 2011 would possibly reveal more information.  ...also, the breed of cops today... trained detectives are far more capable than those trained back then.  They have learned so much more about human behavior, about what they want to "watch for" in each move and word of a witness or person they are dealing with.  Too bad they wouldn't start from scratch! New Cops, New Insight, New Ears, New Eyes, New Equipment, New Science, New Techniques!  Kelly is worth their starting over.  Standard is worthy of finally getting to the bottom of the heap.  No offense to all those involved in the past!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 17, 2011, 07:48:12 AM
Too bad the cop responsible for making the suspects age determination died last year. Hopefully one of the funeral home employees from back then who saw the suspect will find this site someday.

Quote
GEORGE L. FOULON, Badge #3728, passed away on February 19, 2010. ...

from- http://www.mygazines.com/issue/8471/21 (http://www.mygazines.com/issue/8471/21)

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 17, 2011, 08:27:34 PM

Aaron; you managed to dig up a few things we had wondered about before... specifics on the funeral
                                                                                                                       ...  specifics on the perp
                                                                                                                       ...  specifics on the car

I never had a clear picture of these 3 items.




Actually, information about the criminal's description, including the car description, is available on 'pages' 1 and 12 of this site. As this site is a 'thread site', we may sometimes forget that desired information has already been previously posted. A subject index searching tool would be very useful on a site like this, I feel!

As for the funeral information, yes, that was new, as per information from the Calgary Herald newspaper almost 30 years ago.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 18, 2011, 06:21:18 AM

If you do a google search for 'cold justice Kelly Cook', you'll come upon the TV broadcast made last year on this unsolved crime, including an interview with Kelly's sister Marnie, and you can watch it and listen to it.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 18, 2011, 07:51:28 AM
Gee; thanks Aaron... that poor crushed family!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 22, 2011, 07:26:03 PM
ADDRESSING SOME MISCONCEPTIONS

There have been some misconceptions about this case that have arisen on this site, so I'll attempt to set them straight:

Sources I am referring to are as follows:

(1) Alberta Report, July 10, 1981, p. 36

(2) Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

(3) Calgary Sun, November 5, 2005, "Who Killed Kelly?"

(4) Calgary Herald, page A1 (front page), Monday, April 27, 1981

(5) Calgary Herald, Page A1 (front page), Saturday, April 10, 1982


A. Chin Lakes was unusually low in 1981, so it didn't fill to its normal level, and that's why Kelly's body was discovered.

It was reported that the level of Chin Lakes 'had dropped significantly in the past few weeks, leaving it exposed.' (1) 'The water line of the irrigation canal had dropped over a period of time, exposing the corpse'. (2) However, it was never reported that any low water records were set. Keep in mind that the water level had dropped over a period of time, so that does not seem to imply that the reservoir had not filled properly. May 1981 was also a wet month in southern Alberta.


B. Terry Arnold was the definite killer.

This argument can be refuted on a number of logical grounds. First off, Terry Arnold was in his late teens at the time. Back in 1981, the suspect was described as being ‘aged 40 to 45’. (1) (4) In 2005, the suspect was still described as being ‘between 30 and 45 years old back in 1981’. (3) In other words, throughout the years, the killer has always been described as being much older than a teenager. It’s also worth noting that this police description was carefully researched – they ‘hypnotized the trucker and the service station owner, who overheard part of the phone conversation, in an attempt to come up with a better description of the suspect’. (2) Terry Arnold doesn’t even come close to the suspect’s estimated age range.

Second, Terry Arnold apparently blabbed about all sorts of things he’d supposedly done with regard to the Kelly Cook Case: how he dumped her body, the phone call from Hussar, and so forth. I find it incredible that anybody with such loose lips would not have come to the attention of police. Anybody who would reveal such intimate details of the case, and to a complete stranger no less, could not possibly hope to remain anonymous. After all, this case ‘has exhausted thousands of man hours’. (2)

And finally, there’s a sizeable reward fund exceeding $100,000 offered for any information that can solve this case. So I find it rather implausible that someone would be privy to such a confession and not tell the police, if only to collect the reward money. And if the police were notified in an attempt to collect this reward fund, then the fact that the case is still unsolved would indicate that police didn’t consider this lead to be of any true value.

I’m not disputing that Terry Arnold may have ‘confessed’ about his role in the Kelly Cook case. But it appears that it was just ranting on his part. If you disagree with me, that’s fine, but it would be best to thus take your arguments to the police. If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.


C. Somebody at the funeral home (July 2, 1981) got a description of the man which has never been reported on (i.e., is being withheld).


Actually, the police did release a description of this man. (5) So in other words, this information was not withheld.


D. Funeral home employees called in news reporters.

It’s more likely that the funeral home employees called the police. In a media interview, RCMP disclosed details of this occurrence. (5)


E. A male funeral home employee was told to shut up re: his disagreement about the suspect’s description (he said the man was in his late teens or early 20s).

There’s no documented reporting about this. It’s unlikely the police would have withheld this information. Suffice it to say that ‘police still haven’t been able to determine whether the man was her killer’. (2) In other words, they’re not trying to say that that man had to have been Kelly’s killer.


F. You do not dial a telephone number first, then put money in.

Well, it was reported that ‘the phone worked by inserting a quarter after the person being phoned answered’. (2) And I do recall that a fellow on this site who hails from a small town north of Lethbridge reports this was common practice in rural Alberta back in the 1970s and early 1980s.


G. The intended victim worked at a restaurant.

This cannot be substantiated, as police never publicly identified who this girl was. (3) All that was reported was that she was 17 years old in April 1981, she was in a figure skating club, her picture appeared in a local paper in March 1981, and that ‘Bill Christensen’ called her on April 18 and asked her to babysit (and she refused). (3) That’s all that was reported about this girl. Whether or not she worked at a restaurant cannot be substantiated.


Anyhow, I hope that helps clear things up!

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 26, 2011, 01:01:51 AM
I know each town has a lot of creeps, I read once 1 in a 1000 men will do a creepy crime.

That said, this man lived near the spot where Cook was dumped and seems to be a bonifide creep whom was the right age for 1981.

Police in Lethbridge have charged a 65-year-old Edmonton man in connection with a sexual assault that occurred more than 30 years ago.

According to police, the alleged assaults occurred between 1975 and 1976 when the accused, who lived near Lethbridge in the small town of Coaldale, sexually assaulted a 10-year-old girl on multiple occasions.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2011/01/05/16774896.html (http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2011/01/05/16774896.html)


Too bad there are no photos to compare.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 26, 2011, 01:48:16 PM

Re: Richard Keith Orsten and the sexual assualt charges laid against him, we can say that he did live near Chin Lakes back in the day, and in 1981, he would have been 35 years old, which puts him within the 30 to 45 year age range for the suspect as reported in 2005.

Having said that, we'll have to wait to hear more. It's possible the police are looking into this case as per a potential link to the Kelly Cook murder (they may have already interviewed him as a suspect for all I know). But that's just supposition. For all I know, the police already definitively cleared him as a suspect.

In 1981, Kelly's murder was reported as being maybe the same man responsible for the lower mainland slayings (turned out to be Clifford Olson). In 1982, people were openly wondering if the two men charged in recent southern Alberta rural slayings were responsible (nope!). In 1989, it was reported that a man arrested in the United States might be responsible (nope again!). So as you can see, over the years, there have been suspects, but as of now, none of them has turned into the actual criminal.

It's an interesting article, indeed, and makes one wonder. Let's keep following it. I'm just suggesting that nobody climb on the bandwagon just yet. It's the police who will ultimately determine the truth in this case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on January 26, 2011, 02:16:26 PM
I do agree with that. Roaming creeps are very rare. In the Cook case, I am of the opinion the killer never really meant to actually kill the victim. And I am of the opinion a person familiar with Chin Lakes did it. In 1981 that would mostly mean people who lived in the area.

The reason I mention this is because a person whom appears to know this guy sent me a message suggesting the police should look into him. I have no idea why, but if they can remember a case 30 years old, they must have had a specific reason. On the other hand, people tend to be attracted to the traveling serial killer theory, which I do not believe is the case with Cook.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 27, 2011, 07:17:29 AM

If it's not a traveling killer then I suggest the locals have been too tight-lipped or too apathetic to report what they know. I can't imagine a local having the type of car, description, people in town saw him at the gas station, people saw him at the local bar playing pool, people saw him and his car - yet no one could identify him? It doesn't speak local to me. Unless they are very clicky there and don't give two hoots about their neighbours. Which I don't believe is the case at all.

Hussar, Chin Lakes, Standard - about 100km travel total. Big car, big engine, could have been done everything in a couple of hours. He did go south though. Did people in Hussar hear about Kelly's case or was the news really local to Standard and area, at the time? Do LOTS of people from Hussar feel this one guy is the likely killer?



The Kelly Cook case was big news when it happened in 1981. It was reported across the entire country, not just in Standard. True, the Alberta media focussed on it most heavily, but it was hardly restricted to Standard. As the Alberta Report magazine reported back then (May 8, 1981, p. 48), 'Within a week, the story was being told all over Alberta'. As for the killer being local, this is highly unlikely; as one Standard resident reported earlier on this site, nobody local (Standard, Hussar) was ever a suspect in this case to the best of his knowledge. As for identifying the killer, police did make a composite description based on eyewitness accounts at the local gas station where the call to Kelly was placed. And there are only rumors at present as to who the killer truly was.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 30, 2011, 01:08:38 PM
Seeing as we have been addressing previous misconceptions I have a few points to add to this myself. Aaron’s points in the above posts discrediting the viability of T. Arnold as a suspect need to be addressed. If you are one of those who are of the opinion that the Police can do no wrong, you may not want to read any further.

I had a very personal reason for watching this case and took extreme interest in what was being said by the man from the funeral home at the time.  He said he was being ordered to shut up, he claimed to have followed the suspect outside and gave his description of the suspect as being between 18 – 25, wearing blue jeans, a blue jean jacket and a white T shirt. I haven’t seen that published anywhere, that was part and parcel of what the young man said on tv. If Cpl. Johnson wishes to look, he should at least find that clothing description even if from the other employees statements. He will know that I actually did see and hear that said and that I am speaking the truth. Does he want to go there? Does he know what it would mean to uncover what lays behind that?

From Aaron (in red)
RE; T. Arnold
This argument can be refuted on a number of logical grounds. First off, Terry Arnold was in his late teens at the time. Back in 1981, the suspect was described as being ‘aged 40 to 45’

(1) (4) In 2005, the suspect was still described as being ‘between 30 and 45 years old back in 1981’. (3) In other words, throughout the years, the killer has always been described as being much older than a teenager. It’s also worth noting that this police description was carefully researched – they ‘hypnotized the trucker and the service station owner, who overheard part of the phone conversation, in an attempt to come up with a better description of the suspect’. (2) Terry Arnold doesn’t even come close to the suspect’s estimated age range

In the David Milgaard inquiry the same circumstance involving hypnosis of witnesses came up.  It was questioned how two individual witnesses who were questioned separately by the police under hypnosis could possibly have come up with the same identical false story that was used to convict Milgaard. DNA evidence eventually confirmed that their statements could not possibly have been true. Allegations were, the Police were involved in placing suggestions in the minds of the witnesses in order to buttress their case against Milgaard. It happened here in Canada, it’s all documented in the Milgaard inquiry.

Recent court rulings in various jurisdictions have restricted the use of witnesses who have been placed under hypnosis. It is an area that lends itself to potential abuse. The illusion that the truth is being told because a witness was under hypnosis is just that, an illusion. Hypnosis has been discovered to be a means of obstruction.

Second, Terry Arnold apparently blabbed about all sorts of things he’d supposedly done with regard to the Kelly Cook Case: how he dumped her body, the phone call from Hussar, and so forth. I find it incredible that anybody with such loose lips would not have come to the attention of police. Anybody who would reveal such intimate details of the case, and to a complete stranger no less, could not possibly hope to remain anonymous. After all, this case ‘has exhausted thousands of man hours’. (2)

I agree it is virtually impossible that the Police were not aware of T. Arnold. The next murder of a teenage girl in western Canada after Kelly Cook was 16 year old Barb Stoppel in Winnipeg. According to a Calgary Herald news reporter, Arnold had been residing in Strathmore Alberta prior to moving out to Winnipeg with his then new young bride. Sources say the pair had met at a hockey arena in the Calgary area. Barb Stoppel’s inquiry into the wrongful conviction of Thomas Sophonow disclosed the viability of T. Arnold as a suspect in that case and verified his activities as a police informant which produced a very telling comment by the judge presiding over the inquiry, :it is too bad the police never pursued Arnold for the crime.

The question why Arnold was overlooked as a suspect back then was skirted around and never fully answered. The evidence shows that Arnold should have been looked at for the murder of Barb Stoppel but wasn’t for undisclosed reasons. The mere fact that he used to live near Kelly Cook just before the murder of Barb Stoppel should have been enough to raise alarms bells and more that likely did. Why he was never seriously entertained as a suspect for Kelly’s murder is likely for the same reasons he was not in Barb Stoppel's case either.

The Police knew that Arnold had lived in the same two areas where two consecutive murders of teenage girls occurred a thousand miles apart committed in a common and extremely brazen fashion involving a suspect who wore the same style glasses in both cases. A man barged into the funeral home demanding to see Kelly’s body, T Arnold went into the Winnipeg hospital wanting to see Barb Stoppel as she died. Arnold wore the same style glasses as both the Winnipeg suspect and Kelly’s murder suspect. I have no doubt that Arnold did come under Police attention, they aren’t that stupid.

And finally, there’s a sizeable reward fund exceeding $100,000 offered for any information that can solve this case. So I find it rather implausible that someone would be privy to such a confession and not tell the police, if only to collect the reward money. And if the police were notified in an attempt to collect this reward fund, then the fact that the case is still unsolved would indicate that police didn’t consider this lead to be of any true value.

All I can say to that Aaron is that there is a lot of personal interpretation on your part to make that assumption. You know nothing of me, of what I know, of what my personal situation is, or of what other factors are in play in creating my mind set. Your position on this is obvious, you believe the Police, and you don’t believe that they would deliberately obstruct the case of a murdered girl. And this is where we differ like night and day. I believe that there are factions within the Police that have deliberately re-constructed the details of this case so as to keep T. Arnold from coming under scrutiny. From your mind set Aaron, I can see you going to the Police if you had been privy to the same information as I. From my perspective I can see no upside for anyone even the poor cop who would have to take the report.

I’m not disputing that Terry Arnold may have ‘confessed’ about his role in the Kelly Cook case. But it appears that it was just ranting on his part. If you disagree with me, that’s fine, but it would be best to thus take your arguments to the police. If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

For starters, the investigator in the case should be privy to the original signed statements from the funeral home employee’s, he doesn’t need me or anyone else to come forward and tell him what was said. What you have provided Aaron is a story of what the Police are claiming the witnesses said. I can tell you that the newspaper report does not match what I heard on live television coming straight from the lips of one young male funeral home employee that day. He said the police wanted him and everyone else to say the suspect was older, he did not agree with the police age determination and adamantly said so on camera. The signed funeral home witness statements taken by the RCMP at the time should reflect that, if this one from the male employee is missing and the other employees statements are on file, I say this is also more evidence of a deliberate pattern of obstruction from start to finish. The young male funeral home employee may no longer be available to comment himself, a single vehicle accident on the road leaving the funeral home two weeks after he spoke on television resulted in the death of one lone male occupant. Cpl. Johnson could find all of that information.

What would a cop do when confronted with that? I do not know the man Johnson, but he is a functionary of an organization with a top down command structure. He has to comply or he will be placed in a very difficult situation. As noted, the member who provided the news report saying that the funeral home suspect was 35 plus was a high ranking RCMP member. Cpl. Johnson would be in a no win situation should he investigate and uncover the truth behind the suspects age description. From there it gets down to the integrity of the investigator himself aside from his position and office. Whether Cpl Johnson is just a career minded paper pushing puppet or a man of some personal integrity, I know not. His job would be on the line. The investigator in the Barb Stoppel case was confronted with the same dilemma, he had to make the same decisions and chose to give his report directly to Barb’s family at great personal expense.
see Barb Stoppel investigation report -
 www.injusticebusters.com/Mikolajewski_Report.pdf (http://www.injusticebusters.com/Mikolajewski_Report.pdf)

If you wish to uncover the truth for yourself Aaron, by all means contact Mr. Johnson and ask him to look up the original signed witness statement from the young male funeral home employee. You are as much able to request this as a means of getting to the truth as anyone. After all it is just the truth we seek is it not? You have done well to find the name and rank of the Police officer responsible for the suspects age revision, carry on the rest of the way.

In my opinion, if the truth of all of what occurred here were known, we would all be sickened to our stomachs. This case will never be solved by way of the Police in my opinion for all of the afore said reasons. Barb Stoppel’s family at least knew the truth at the end of the day, I can only hope for the same here one day.

I left this story as a record of what I once saw with my own eyes in hopes that someone in the future will discover this site and add the missing pieces to it. I don’t want any reward or blood money and have no hidden agenda. If a family member of Kelly’s wished for me to provide a signed statement or submit to a lie detector test or speak with one of their representative, I would. Otherwise, I see no point in reiterating this same thing time after time. Those who wish to believe in the sanctity of the police investigation will continue to do so despite evidence to the contrary.

For those who wish to look the other way and gloss over the possibility of T. Arnold as a viable suspect, you are welcome to do so but I lay it to rest right here at the feet of the RCMP. They hold the evidence that can prove this! Unfortunately that same evidence would also implicate themselves in obstruction of justice at the highest levels.

I fully recognize the futility of pursuing this any further or defending this position any longer and will leave this talk to others.

All the best to those who continue to pursue this case in the spirit of truth. Remember that you may encounter unusual levels of obstruction, deception, and revision along that route....In the end even if this case can not be “officially solved”, maybe Kelly just wants us all to know the truth, ugly as it may be.. 

Anyhow, I hope that helps clear things up!

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on January 30, 2011, 02:42:41 PM
Just for the record D; I've always agreed with you on Arnold.... still do!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on January 30, 2011, 06:13:47 PM

Once again, re: Terry Arnold, for anyone who listened to his 'confession' and/or for anyone who truly believes in his guilt in the Kelly Cook murder:

If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

That's what you should do, not simply restrict your opinions to this blog site.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on January 30, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
Anyone committing a crime in a fashion this brazen was bound to repeat IMO.

thnx Deb Lost  :) :)

Been there done that Aaron;
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.msg41881.html#msg41881 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.msg41881.html#msg41881)

the reponse- nil
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 13, 2011, 09:13:27 PM
being from Drumheller and as this approaches 30 years... my thoughts are still with all those so closely affected by this tragedy! I have taken the time to read all the posts on this subject as it was close to home and I think about it often. I have to agree with some points discussed, that being the POI was not from the direct area but had been there, and that he did know the Chin Lake area well. I have to say the sketch and picture comparrison with Ted (I believe the name used) from the Warner area couldn't be more acurate... the sketch comparrison with Terry and the physical discription in my opinion don't match as well, as just his personality and how he was after the Stopple murder, it does not compare at all to this situation, just my opinion! I have met people like Terry in similar situations as D1's encounter with him and IMO it was just someone trying to make himself feel better about his explotes and trying to scare the people he was with (again to make himself feel better) than it was truth... JMO! I have myself looked at people I knew from the Drumheller area over the years and compared them to the POI and had only 2 persons that I thought could have compared. Ones physical discription fit although his personality didn't... and the other his picture wasn't so exacte as the sketch but his personalty was of someone that could commit such a crime and he was involved with another person found murdered in the area, but nothing was ever proven. Never anything that was enough to point any fingers... but enough to make a person as myself think deeply for a lot of years about what happened to Kelly. She is still in a lot of peoples thoughts after all of these years... She is not fogotten! I don't believe that anyone close to the situation doesn't think about it often, and I am sure if there was anything that was not mentioned by them at the time to those investigating it would have been said over the years... as in, they still get tips about it! I believe they do have all the information and that they may just need a fresh pair of eyes to look again and put it all together... and I hope that someday we will see that!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 14, 2011, 11:21:49 PM
Weird timing! I was driving home last night from Calgary, and passed thru this area just to look around again.

One thing I speculated about before was the killer was from Drumheller. And in those days, driving thru Standard was probably a route a lot of people took while driving the Calgary -> DH route.

That is about the only way a person could end up in Standard. It is not a place you just happen to stop in. You'd have to use that highway for a reason.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 15, 2011, 10:08:36 AM
Standard is for sure in a location that you have to be there for a reason... but it's not a common route from Calgary to Drum. I never fully suspected someone from Drum because of where she was left... if the POI were from Drumheller he would know there are a lot more places she could have been left without being found for a long time without taken her so far from where she was taken from. Leading me to believe the perp was from closer to where she was found. JMO!!! For clarification it would be good to have more info about the suspect from Warner even tho he is long since gone... somone knows something!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jobo on February 15, 2011, 08:30:45 PM
I have been to Drumheller, many many moons ago, but If I recall correctly there is a lot of old abandoned mines....so if the perp was from that area, he wouldn't go south to dispose of Kelly, I agree.   
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 16, 2011, 02:02:45 AM
Sorry about that Des, I am not sure what is happening, I hope to have this fixed.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 16, 2011, 02:16:38 AM
same way on this end.... I have been since days, having to sign in every time.... thought it was my own heavy security throwing the cookie out of my cache when I exit my browser.... but not so!.... I get kicked out between replies,  lose a pm, if I hit send.... then "sign in again".... omg!  then get into a thread, try to go to another page.... booted again.

Oh well; it's no disgrace.  We've got these lines on fire daily.  It's karma telling us to shut up for a while.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 16, 2011, 10:58:21 AM
Everything is working fine here on my end Lost, maybe just your server?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: calgarygirl on February 16, 2011, 11:30:33 AM
Found this newspaper article from June 30, 1981 front page of The Calgary Herald after they discovered her remains. It talks about another girl giving this man Kelly's phone number and details on the individual.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19810630&printsec=frontpage
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 16, 2011, 11:36:50 AM
That is by far the best description of the killer to date.

mid 30's - 40's
About 5 feet 10 inches
Stocky
Dark hair and eyebrows
Abrupt mannerisms
Often props his sun glasses on his head.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 16, 2011, 11:48:09 AM
OK... now that description differs from what was previously said (if I recall correctly) and is closer to what I remember from so many years ago... POI was wearing sunglasses, not glasses. I recall the poster that I saw showed sunglasses not glasses and that was why so many years ago to me the poster looked like a person from Drumheller as I had stated before. This person fit the description but did not wear glasses, but did wear sun glasses all the time. But the vehicle description was not his... This person also commited suicide maybe 10-15 years ago. But again my feelings lie to someone closer to the drop off area.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: calgarygirl on February 16, 2011, 11:52:03 AM
I would like to know how in depth their investigation went with interviewing the other girl who gave him Kelly's phone number. did they interview the other girl's parents, or Kelly's parents? I mean honestly, who lets their child go out to babysit at a strangers house, especially in a small rural community where people know people, and they didn't know this guy? It just puts a sickness in my stomach that something isn't right. Somebody saw something.
Was the vehicle stolen? and if so, what was said about the person who stole it. Driving that far, the abducter must've stopped to fill up with gas.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 16, 2011, 02:46:21 PM
I would like to know how in depth their investigation went with interviewing the other girl who gave him Kelly's phone number. did they interview the other girl's parents, or Kelly's parents? I mean honestly, who lets their child go out to babysit at a strangers house, especially in a small rural community where people know people, and they didn't know this guy? It just puts a sickness in my stomach that something isn't right. Somebody saw something.
Was the vehicle stolen? and if so, what was said about the person who stole it. Driving that far, the abducter must've stopped to fill up with gas.

This was a time and a place that things like this just didn't happen... It was not something expected in that day and age. The perp used a name that was common to the area, smart thinking on his part! By doing so most people in the area at that day and age (people were more trusting then) would have just thought they were related to somebody...!!! No reports of any stolen vehicles. You can go a long way on a full tank of gas from Calgary... to places like Lethbridge or from Lethbridge and return there... I worked pumping gas (how it was done years ago, full service) and when you get hundreds of vehicles a day in for gas, unless something unusual happened... nothing is going to stick in your mind. Something like what did happen when he phoned her from the phone booth at the gas station off highway 1... he couldn't figure out how to use the pay phone, made a fuss and the attendent and truck driver remembered him and were able to give a discription...
They did interview the other girl, she did not meet him... what more could she tell???
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 16, 2011, 08:20:59 PM
hats off to Calgarygirl for good digging and good thinking!  ....for some reason I was getting the name "Anderson instead of Christianson"?? ..... I also am wondering if this guy was so "cocky and bold" ... not only because of his mannerism (.... cocky people are usually also abrupt and inpatient .... they are also the kind of people who tend to be "hyper" ... ..always doing something... always moving. ....when they are alone, or unable to get something done because of any kind of "set back", they pace, even explode.  This kind of person always makes mistakes that come back to bite them.)  but was he a little more aggressive because he happened to have the use of a vehicle, that he wouldn't normally have ... like someone who can't keep a vehicle because he loses his license a lot? or wrecks every car he gets?      Maybe someone he was working with, went home for a weekend (like by air) and left his vehicle behind. ..... or someone he was living with, or watching their place - mom and dad were on a trip and he found an extra set of keys while they were away... (or even uncle, or aunt or other relative... or even girlfriend he may have been involved with). 

Something tells me if the police were to go public with that thought, it would "hit right home" to somebody who had to go out of town that April 22, 1981.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on February 19, 2011, 12:28:19 AM
Found this newspaper article from June 30, 1981 front page of The Calgary Herald after they discovered her remains. It talks about another girl giving this man Kelly's phone number and details on the individual.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19810630&printsec=frontpage

Nice going on the homework!!  I followed your lead and found several Herald articles from 1981 about Kelly's disappearance.  Here is another one which adds to the description of the car; the Police believe it was an off-white 1975 North American made car.  Doesn't really help BUT it is better than an approximation.  This article gives a couple more details about the abductor: a weather beaten & tanned face (described as "swarthy" in the composite) and CURLY dark brown hair.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kHNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VX4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3122,5284119&dq=calgary+herald+april+1981&hl=en

This newfound information of the description is pretty key.  To me, this pretty much proves what AaronP & I have been saying all along:  Terry Arnold had every bit of the word nothing to do with Kelly Cook's disappearance & murder for the following reasons:
1) Curly dark brown hair-Arnold's appeared to be more straight and reddish tinged-light brown at best. 
2) This description tells us this guy wore sunglasses and apparently had a habit of propping them up on his head.  He did not wear corrective vision glasses like Arnold had to and I also doubt Arnold had the means to have contact lenses in '81.
3) Arnold showed zero fortitude to plan ANYTHING in his life, he just acted on impulse whereas Kelly's case has been more or less proven this was a well planned kidnapping & murder.  All you have to do is read the Arnold news stories on the Mindy Tran site to see how impulsive he was.
4) Abductor had a tanned & creased face, which is a lot different than acne & pock marked like Arnold...also the one article from Mindy Tran states Arnold returned to Winnipeg in January of 1981 and stayed there working menial jobs.  I highly doubt he was even in Alberta when the real killer was in his planning stage as this took supposedly took weeks, perhaps a month or two to plan by the killer.  Also most descriptions put this guy between 40 & 45...yes Arnold supposedly looked older, but most people guessed he was late 20's-a far cry from mid 30's to mid 40's.

Lastly, going back to the coat this guy was wearing-it was described as a team jacket with crests on it.  Perhaps a men's slo-pitch or fastball team?  Perhaps a men's hockey team?  I'm about 99.3% sure Arnold was not an athlete of any type as usually only competitive recreational sports teams get team jackets made-so another reason to rule himout.  I highly doubt it was a fan of pro sports team as the logo or team name would be easily remembered or recognized as such.  Someone will hopefully remember a guy who played on...or perhaps even coached their ball team who had an off-white colored car matching this description.  The thing that bugs me though, if he propped his sunglasses up on his head, how come no one noticed his eye color?  There are ways of concealing that I guess, but still...

Digging through some of the online archives fromthe early 80's, I found some other interesting articles which mention names of victims & their murderers I have not heard yet in this thread.  In the first link below, read the "Brutal killers often cruised for victims" article from the January 18, 1983 edition of the Calgary Herald.  The officer interviewed mentions Kelly Cook's murder along with two other female victims, Darlene (Roberta) Stanton and Jill Venker.  He mentions Roberta Stanton was lured away from her home in Calgary under false pretenses, just like Kelly was.  The only online archived article I could find about Roberta Stanton was from the Edmonton Journal dated March 1, 1983 in regards to the trial.  This is the second link below-"Mother of slain girl points out man" (related article beside it as well).    Her killer told the girl's mother he & his wife were moving to a smaller home and his wife needed help packing.  He also told the girl's mom he wasn't going to be around which is why his wife needed an extra hand and also why she let her daughter go with him-I guess they knew each other or were acquaintances.  This was also the last time she saw her daughter alive.  The 11 year old girl's body was found near Lake Minnewanka, approximately 130 km west of Calgary on December 9, 1981; unfortunately, I cannot find the date when she was abducted.  Her murderer's name is Joseph William Francis Zimmer and he was 40 years old at the time of the trial, making him 38 in 1981.  I cannot find a picture of him to compare to Kelly's abductor but many things about this guy can be circumstantially linked:

1) Was able to lure a young girl under false pretenses with a fake "job"
2) Brave/brazen enough to pick both up right at their front door
3) Willing to drive a considerable distance to dump the bodies
4) Both bodies dumped at/near a lake/body of water
5) Zimmer's age is the correct age for Kelly's killer-late 30's in 1981.
6) Zimmer lived in and abducted Stanton in Calgary in 1981, so he was in the area at the time.
7) Zimmer was married; this could or would explain why he made the arrangements on Good Friday and was forced to wait until after Easter was over to carry out his plan-family holiday.
8 ) Both girls were strangled
***This is the most intriguing to me***
9) This guy used aliases-John Nelson is listed in the article as one of them.  His middle name is William Francis.  William= Bill.  Bill Christiansen???

9 circumstantial pieces from one tiny blurb of an article is an unusal high amount to draw any kind of a link, but it could all be just that-coincidence & circumstantial.

We all know circumstantial stuff does us no good...but if someone could find a photo of this guy or even a description would be beneficial to drawing a physical characteristic link.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hQplAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sH4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1399,3668894&dq=calgary+herald+kelly+cook&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hiNlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XIgNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3030,76416&dq=roberta+stanton+murder&hl=en

This last link is in regards to a t.v. documentary which aired in October, 1981.  The re-enactments include three scenarios based on facts of the case.  Interesting read.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WHdkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h34NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2810,1466993&dq=calgary+herald+kelly+cook&hl=en
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 01:45:55 AM
Nice stuff CCF, wondered where you'd been. Hopefully that picture will show up..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 19, 2011, 02:16:08 AM
Nice to see you CCF.... and right on cue.... threads are drying up like crazy!  When the good lord closes a door, he always opens a window.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 19, 2011, 02:36:04 AM
With regards to CCF's post a few above here:

[quoteIn August 1982, John Francis Dixon was charged with the murder of a young woman, Jill Venker.  Dixon abducted Venker near Banff.  Dixon was apprehended within a few days, and after interrogation, he led the investigators to the body of Jill Venker, near Golden, B.C.

][/quote]

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2544.0
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 12:55:26 PM
I wasn’t going to respond here anymore as I do recognize the futility of it really. You do make a good case CCF and you do provide new information that is helpful so I will respond to you. I liked your points and thought back to what a new poster had to say, that maybe a fresh set of eyes could get somewhere with all this.

OK, as you make mention of T Arnold a fair bit I’ll add my two cents in on that again. Your other suspect I’ll  separate and leave to you to flesh out and make the case for without disturbing you.

re:
Quote
Nice going on the homework!!  I followed your lead and found several Herald articles from 1981 about Kelly's disappearance.  Here is another one which adds to the description of the car; the Police believe it was an off-white 1975 North American made car.  Doesn't really help BUT it is better than an approximation.  This article gives a couple more details about the abductor: a weather beaten & tanned face (described as "swarthy" in the composite) and CURLY dark brown hair.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kHNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VX4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3122,5284119&dq=calgary+herald+april+1981&hl=en

This newfound information of the description is pretty key.  To me, this pretty much proves what AaronP & I have been saying all along:  Terry Arnold had every bit of the word nothing to do with Kelly Cook's disappearance & murder for the following reasons:
1) Curly dark brown hair-Arnold's appeared to be more straight and reddish tinged-light brown at best. 
2) This description tells us this guy wore sunglasses and apparently had a habit of propping them up on his head.  He did not wear corrective vision glasses like Arnold had to and I also doubt Arnold had the means to have contact lenses in '81.
3) Arnold showed zero fortitude to plan ANYTHING in his life, he just acted on impulse whereas Kelly's case has been more or less proven this was a well planned kidnapping & murder.  All you have to do is read the Arnold news stories on the Mindy Tran site to see how impulsive he was.
4) Abductor had a tanned & creased face, which is a lot different than acne & pock marked like Arnold...also the one article from Mindy Tran states Arnold returned to Winnipeg in January of 1981 and stayed there working menial jobs.  I highly doubt he was even in Alberta when the real killer was in his planning stage as this took supposedly took weeks, perhaps a month or two to plan by the killer.  Also most descriptions put this guy between 40 & 45...yes Arnold supposedly looked older, but most people guessed he was late 20's-a far cry from mid 30's to mid 40's.

A few points-
1) Arnolds natural hair was extremely curly, so curly in fact it looked almost wiry and impossible to tame. I suspected that was why he kept it quite short back in the early eighties when longer hair was in fashion. It appeared dark brown to me and whatever reddish tinge there may have been was not noticeable in any prominent fashion whatsoever. I don’t find any descriptions of Arnold saying his natural hair was red or reddish.

2)   The glasses and sunglass thing is quite interesting. I have written about this before and have noted that it is a thing that Terry Arnold did to disguise the fact that he wore glasses. When you absolutely require glasses to see, how do you disguise that fact? This goes to the personality of Arnold and that thing most people don’t do and don't really understand themselves. Arnold was very smart and read people and their reactions well, unfortunately he was pretty much a pure sociopath and put that to evil use. If you look at what the suspect in Kelly’s disappearance was doing with the sunglasses  and compare to what the suspect in Barb Stoppel’s murder did with his glasses, you start to get a glimpse of a feature specific to and common to this killer.
I left what I wrote about that before at-
 http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574)


3)   As noted, Kelly Cook only became the intended victim mere days before she was taken. Before that, she was nowhere in the killers sights. That has to be considered as being fairly impulsive. I will also re-mention another thing about what Arnold said that I never really understood. That someone else that Arnold knew had the infatuation with the figure skater originally and that he Arnold had stepped in and offered to just go get her at the end. Again it was Arnold’s explanation so who knows, maybe that is a point that should be entertained.. that there were two involved and the other was a person known to Arnold from work or a relative or someone he knew from when he lived around there before. That by seriously going through Arnold it may lead back to this other.

4)    I can’t help but think of a kid from the high school I once attended in Manitoba. His acne was so bad he had to get a prescription cream of some sort and part of the cure employed a sunlamp for some duration. I’d never heard of one of those before then. Anyway the point was that this kid ended up being the only one in the entire school who looked like he had a tan in the middle of winter and that made him stand out like a sore thumb out there on the prairies. I once recall a teacher asking him if he skied after the effect became more and more prominent.

Arnold’s words were that he was delivering a car to Calgary for his boss at that time. He said he drove the entire distance all in one shot driving non stop to get there and then used the car for days afterwards while everyone would just assume that he was still just on his way. He said he returned to Winnipeg by bus. So who knows but that is Arnold’s story.

When I see statements like this below, I feel I should respond just to keep the record straight in a factual sense. But I won’t any longer, most all of these points has been discussed before and are in the record. It’s relatively easy to have Arnold removed from the suspect list for any multitude of reasonings in one’s own mind, it is a full time job to research and respond to them all. Personally I have still not seen what it takes to say it wasn’t Arnold and will hold the possibility of him being the killer until it is proven otherwise or the real killer is identified. And I will leave you the reminder that Arnold did say things that indicated knowledge of the crime, specifically how the ropes were wound and crossed over Kelly's body, I have never heard that advertised anywhere. Maybe there are crime scene photos to be checked, ( if they ae still available)

 
Quote
This newfound information of the description is pretty key.  To me, this pretty much proves what AaronP & I have been saying all along:  Terry Arnold had every bit of the word nothing to do with Kelly Cook's disappearance & murder for the following reasons:

This new information has actually made me even more convinced that it could really be Arnold. I once had the thought when I was talking with him in that bar that night, that he resembled a “white Negro”. I don’t know how else to put that but his hair was unusually tightly wound and curly.. wiry in look.

I vote for a fresh set of eyes maybe even external to the RCMP, to review this case..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 19, 2011, 03:49:03 PM
another article about Zimmer...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8UNgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=knANAAAAIBAJ&pg=2726,2811201&dq=joseph+zimmer&hl=en

haven't found a picture yet.

Would like to add that IMO this person whom had a similar "planned" attack MO, in around the same area within a short time period, would be more of a POI than Arnold...
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 19, 2011, 06:46:55 PM
Could be, or could even be a copy cat. Hopefully the truth will be known someday, keep on the photo, it could pay off.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 20, 2011, 12:05:25 AM
This is fascinating stuff! I wonder if that guy is still alive? He'd have gotten parole by now too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 20, 2011, 10:00:23 AM
Unfortunately almost all those perverts get released back into society at some time here in Canada. I've read about some of the suspects in these new reports before, reminder for anyone looking that Kelly Cook was not raped. You will need to account for that in motive and theory at some time..
 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on February 21, 2011, 12:02:45 AM
I've got to run a cat to a cat sanctuary in Strthmore on Tuesday. If I have time, I am going to stop in the Standard library and ask if they have local newspapers from this time frame in 1981, and see what they say. Hopefully there will be some more statements from local residents.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on February 22, 2011, 02:37:30 AM
For those of you who have been following this thread regularly, I brought up an abduction which occurred in Olds, AB a few weeks before Kelly was abducted. The abductor was an American by the name of Chester Keith Bordelon...a few of us pondered whether he would have been granted bail with a recognizance or bail order with restrictions.  I kind of answered my own question of "what happened to this guy?"  Looks like we can rule him out as a POI...also psecial mention to I believe Haunted who already stated he was in custody quite a while back, but I overlooked it.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=iXVkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gH4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3522,6517298&dq=chester+bordelon&hl=en

Bottom of the article...remanded in custody since his arrest on March 29, 1981.

In regards to D1's post above, I do have a few rebuttals to this debate of whether Arnold was involved or not.  I am not posting these to start a pi$$ing contest, but this is what I've found in the research I have done.  I am now 1 million percent positive Arnold had nothing to do with Kelly's murder and this (especially the articles I have links to at the bottom) will hopefully put Arnold's apparent involvement to rest (my rebuttals in red).




A few points-
1) [u}Arnolds natural hair was extremely curly, so curly in fact it looked almost wiry and impossible to tame[/u]. I suspected that was why he kept it quite short back in the early eighties when longer hair was in fashion. It appeared dark brown to me and whatever reddish tinge there may have been was not noticeable in any prominent fashion whatsoever. I don’t find any descriptions of Arnold saying his natural hair was red or reddish.  This new information has actually made me even more convinced that it could really be Arnold. I once had the thought when I was talking with him in that bar that night, that he resembled a “white Negro”. I don’t know how else to put that but his hair was unusually tightly wound and curly.. wiry in look.


This does not sound like Arnold at all.  There are two pictures of him early in this thread you posted shortly after you first brought him up as a #1 suspect.  In the picture with him wearing the "unibomber/aviator" style glasses, his hair looks pretty straight, albeit a thick mess on top, to me but nowhere near “a white negro” as you put it.  You can see growth at the back of his head coming straight down and along the side of his head above the ear which has zero curl to it.  If he had naturally curly & wiry hair this would be evident in this photo, and it isn't.  In your own words you said he had it cut quite short and it was wiry and curly.  Same can be said in the other photo where he has no moustache, it appears to be mostly straight, slightly wavy at best with a few "wings" at the back, but that would not pass as natural tight-curled hair, especially as tightly curled as you have described it.  And um, D1...I thought you didn't meet Arnold until the late 80's or early 90's.  How would you know how he kept his hair in the early 80's as both pictures are from 2000 or later?  Another article discredits this statement as well.  After Roberta Ferguson disappeared, it was documented he cut his long shoulder length hair and cut off his 'stache in the days following her disappearance.  1983 was still the early 80's...Stoppel's killer didn't have short cut hair either, according to statements.

2)  The glasses and sunglass thing is quite interesting. I have written about this before and have noted that it is a thing that Terry Arnold did to disguise the fact that he wore glasses. When you absolutely require glasses to see, how do you disguise that fact? This goes to the personality of Arnold and that thing most people don’t do and don't really understand themselves. Arnold was very smart and read people and their reactions well, unfortunately he was pretty much a pure sociopath and put that to evil use. If you look at what the suspect in Kelly’s disappearance was doing with the sunglasses  and compare to what the suspect in Barb Stoppel’s murder did with his glasses, you start to get a glimpse of a feature specific to and common to this killer.
I left what I wrote about that before at-
[http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69.0;attach=1574]


 According to most witnesses, who’s descriptions are found in the Sophonow inquiry, the suspect was wearing prescription glasses at the time Barb was attacked. http://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/publications/sophonow/intro/factual.html.  Near the bottom of this section of the Sophonow inquiry is a description of the suspect, and it was thought the suspect had a light red tinge to his hair to further my above response. This report also mentions all witnesses statements including, their whereabouts in relation to the Ideal Donut Shop and what they saw.  All statements say the guy was wearing prescription glasses.  The composite picture of the suspect in Kelly’s case is drawn with the sunglasses on-which he was reported as wearing which explains why the lenses are blackened and no description of eye color.  Speaking of which, apparently Arnold had ice-blue eyes which stood out, so if someone did see them, they would probably remember that.  Also, just to clarify something in your link above, Roberta Ferguson did not work for Conklin Shows.  It was West Coast Amusements, which are based out of B.C.  Arnold worked only for Conklin Shows, which we know are based out of Winnipeg.  He would not have known Ferguson prior to him picking her up hitchhiking.  Simply wrong place at the wrong time.

3)  As noted, Kelly Cook only became the intended victim mere days before she was taken. Before that, she was nowhere in the killers sights. That has to be considered as being fairly impulsive. I will also re-mention another thing about what Arnold said that I never really understood. That someone else that Arnold knew had the infatuation with the figure skater originally and that he Arnold had stepped in and offered to just go get her at the end. Again it was Arnold’s explanation so who knows, maybe that is a point that should be entertained.. that there were two involved and the other was a person known to Arnold from work or a relative or someone he knew from when he lived around there before. That by seriously going through Arnold it may lead back to this other.

Not at all...more of a Plan B, so lets think like a criminal for a second.  You call up a teenage girl under the rouse to get her to babysit for you and tell her you are new to the area.  You need to create a rapport and establish a trust, after all you are a family man since you need her to babysit and she’s not going to recognize your voice as a regular client.  You tell her I need you to babysit on this date and at this time.  She tells you "No, I am unavailable to do it that day."  What are you going to say, "Oh you can't that day? Well I guess I'll have to cancel my plans with my wife for a time when only you can babysit for us."  If a stranger whom she had never talked to before was willing to drop all plans because she couldn’t babysit for him would scare & creep the hell out of her.  You've also probably given her your "name" by then as well so she would likely tell her parents about this weirdo and then she'd tell all her friends not to babysit for anyone named “Mr. Creepy” if he calls asking.  He had no choice but to ask for someone else, someone she could recommend, otherwise his whole plan is shot.  Also, I am going to debunk the whole Arnold thing of him saying “he went & got her for the other guy” as completely bogus (posted by you, #337 & #339 and again above).  It has been documented in many articles the suspect was seen using payphones around/near town (hotel, gas station) and this is where the composite sketch came from-those witnesses who saw him.  Lets assume what you are saying is correct about the original guy chickening out and Arnold being the one who picked her up, with no prior contact with her before, as this is what you are saying.  Arnold would have picked her up under cover of darkness (Kelly picked up at 8:30 p.m., sunset was at 7:44 p.m. that night so it would have been dark or very close to it) so no one would have been able to get a physical description of the driver (who you say was Arnold), except for Kelly...so explain how Arnold matches the composite since you are so adamant he does (and is also the guilty party), when no one in Standard would have even seen him as he wasn’t the one making the calls!!

(http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/services/hia/sunrise-sunset.html *Sunrise-sunset table by date)

Let's look at the crimes Arnold is suspected of & the one he was convicted of:  The girl he was convicted of murdering, Christine Browne, met her at an arcade the same day he sexually assaulted her & raped her.  By his own admission they had sex twice, but I doubt it was consentual.  We all know the circumstances involving Stoppel and he is suspected of killing Roberta Brown, who was picked up hitchhiking and has not been found.  He is suspected of killing Denise LaPierre who was found meters from his doorstep in Calgary as she was walking home from a nearby party.  Look at all the women who have made statements how he raped them over & over & over.  Look how he molested so many little girls.  When he had the urge to sexually assault & murder, it had to be now-no waiting.  He was prone to rage when rejected, which escalated him to murder some of these girls.  He’s had nothing but a history of sexual assaults & pedophilia so for Kelly to not have been sexually assaulted is completely out of character for a sexual deviant like Arnold, considering he had the time & means to do so before killing her.  He didn’t have the time to rape Barb Stoppel and didn’t have time to rape Lapierre in an alleyway, so he had to settle on killing them without raping them first.

4) Arnold’s words were that he was delivering a car to Calgary for his boss at that time. He said he drove the entire distance all in one shot driving non stop to get there and then used the car for days afterwards while everyone would just assume that he was still just on his way. He said he returned to Winnipeg by bus. So who knows but that is Arnold’s story.

This part I also find bogus as Winnipeg to Calgary is doable in one day by car, if you have a lead foot.  It’s only 15 hours, but back in 1981 it may have taken slightly longer as the Trans Canada in Saskatchewan was single lane for the most part, if not the whole part.  For him to say “I used the car for days while everyone would think I was still on my way” is a crock.  Even if he did overnight in say Swift Current or Regina, he would have been in Calgary the next day.  It’s not like he drove from Newfoundland where it would take days.  Where was he for “days” then?  If he indeed had a hand in helping out his “buddy”, other people would have seen him.  Where did he go after supposedly dumping Kelly’s body? 

When I see statements like this below, I feel I should respond just to keep the record straight in a factual sense. But I won’t any longer, most all of these points has been discussed before and are in the record. It’s relatively easy to have Arnold removed from the suspect list for any multitude of reasonings in one’s own mind, it is a full time job to research and respond to them all. Personally I have still not seen what it takes to say it wasn’t Arnold and will hold the possibility of him being the killer until it is proven otherwise or the real killer is identified. And I will leave you the reminder that Arnold did say things that indicated knowledge of the crime, specifically how the ropes were wound and crossed over Kelly's body, I have never heard that advertised anywhere. Maybe there are crime scene photos to be checked, ( if they are still available)


December 7, 1983  edition of the Herald states her body was found bound by ropes (link below) and there are many others I have read in the past couple of days.  AaronP also quoted an article saying her body was bound at the hands & feet to the cinder blocks (post #178), not crisscrossed over her entire body as per Arnold’s word.  Everything Arnold apparently told you can all be pretty much found in public newspapers from that era, right from the figure skater being the original target to how her body was bound with rope, but not the exact detail like the Alberta Report did, which I doubt Arnold had access to.  Arnold was a pathological liar & a master manipulator.  He could twist and add stories to details to make him fit into the crime, but when you see through all the other horse$hit added details, every specific detail to the crime was reported in the papers and the rest is fabricated.  He admitted and was in fact writing crime stories for a Penticton paper, so being a "true-crime story-writer wannabe", I guarantee he knew all about the Cook case as it was a national and international event. Like most killers, they claim victims which aren’t theirs as a status thing.  Let’s not forget "Unsolved Mysteries" even profiled this case in the late 80's so it was all over North America at some point.



Article saying her body was rope bound:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AHZkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xX4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3853,3586893&dq=calgary+girl+abducted&hl=en[color]


article re: Kelly’s discovered body:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GHNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y34NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1472,5623252&dq=kelly+cook&hl=en

It states her body was found on the north shore, 180 meters EAST of the bridge, not on the west side where this deep shelf supposedly is-discussed earlier in thread.


article re: Funral home incident:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XnZkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0X4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1395,869193&dq=calgary+girl+abducted&hl=en

*Her body was found June 28th, autopsy done June 29/30, her funeral was July 3rd.  Now, I’m assuming only the mortician would have been in July 1 getting her body ready so this leaves only July 2nd when this guy came in, which is when he did (as per AaronP-post #178).*

article re: suspicious phonecalls in Canmore-exact similarities to Kelly’s case.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9HNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aH4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=6329,185372&dq=kelly+cook+body&hl=en

I cannot believe I stumbled on this, and only 4 1/2 months after Kelly disappeared!!  Canmore is only an hour or so from Calgary, would have been small in population in 81 too.  Arnold apparently spent September through December in custody in Winnipeg (as per link below), so this pretty much rules him out.  A copycat, you're thinking...I'm doubtful of this, he was looking to strike again.  Makes we wonder if Zimmer isn't involved somehow...where Stanton's body was eventually found was a mere stones-throw away from Canmore.  I just wish I could find what date she disappeared.  All we know is her body was found in early December of 1981.

Stoppel Report-Page 7 re: Arnold in custody from September to December 1981
http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf


article re: Arnold’s death-states he worked at Red River Ex in June-July of 81 when he met Stoppel. 

http://www.saskatoon.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20050329/Terry_Arnold_050329?hub=TorontoNewHome

http://conklinshows.com/routes/1976.html   Conklin Shows (Arnold's carnival employer) routes & dates.

The above article will prove Arnold is NOT the person who went to the funeral home.  He worked the summer of ’81 at the Red River Exhibition in his hometown of Winnipeg for Conklin Shows.  There is no specific date for Conklin’s route for 1981, but all years prior to & after 1981 has Conklin being the primary midway attraction for the RRX beginning the third week of June and for the next 10 days, ending the first couple days into July.  He 100% positively worked at the RRX the summer of ‘81.  He would have been in Winnipeg at this time as it is fair to say the show wrapped up July 2nd and the show began around June 22.  There is no way he would have been in Calgary on the 2nd when the funeral home incident took place.  The RRX is after all where he first saw Stoppel and became infatuated with her, so I doubt he even knew (or cared) Cook’s body was found as he was to busy fantasizing about Stoppel.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on February 22, 2011, 02:05:25 PM
Wow CCF!
That Canmore incident is earie... never heard of it before now.

D1... the state Kelly was in when they found her, I don't believe they were able to tell if she was sexually assulted.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on February 22, 2011, 06:24:19 PM
I agree with BigAl;  but also might infer (and I know I'll get in trouble for this, as usual) that perhaps the corinor didn't even "go there"... insofar as sexual assault.  I grew up in a small community also;  had it happened here, our corinor would only have been "making a guess" ...since we've never had a qualified coronor before... just a medical doctor with an extra job! .... also; the way it was around here, the doctor wouldn't want to see the family endure any further horror.... especially when the victim was in such advanced stage of decomp, and he lacked forensic skills.

also:

Quote
The above article will prove Arnold is NOT the person who went to the funeral home.  He worked the summer of ’81 at the Red River Exhibition in his hometown of Winnipeg for Conklin Shows.  There is no specific date for Conklin’s route for 1981, but all years prior to & after 1981 has Conklin being the primary midway attraction for the RRX beginning the third week of June and for the next 10 days, ending the first couple days into July.  He 100% positively worked at the RRX the summer of ‘81.  He would have been in Winnipeg at this time as it is fair to say the show wrapped up July 2nd and the show began around June 22.  There is no way he would have been in Calgary on the 2nd when the funeral home incident took place.  The RRX is after all where he first saw Stoppel and became infatuated with her, so I doubt he even knew (or cared) Cook’s body was found as he was to busy fantasizing about Stoppel.

CCF, I read those articles, but I seem to be missing something;  no disrespect, I'm slow absorbing more often than not!  However, the above only proves to me that Arnold worked for the Conklin Shows summer season of /81.  ....at which time he became fixated with Barbara Stoppel (whom I'm convinced he murdered) ... however, he kept "doing his thing" and actually didn't track her down or kill her, until December.  In the meantime,
he could have gone anywhere.... done anything!  The man was always stalking, raping, and killing across the country.  He could have been one place one day, and two provinces away two days later?  What am I missing?  It would be great if we knew somebody else who worked the carnival.... where were they in the spring? anywhere at all?  warm weather arrives early on the prairies.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on February 22, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Des, yes you are exactly right in my explanation, say for one thing.  When you look at the history of Conklin Shows routes, the RRX always started the 3rd week of June...previous to & after 1981.  If you dig up a calendar from 1981, the 3rd Sunday in June is the 21st, not the 19th.  It went on for 10 days meaning Canada Day (a wenesday) would have been likely the last day of the show.  When I used to go to fairs, the midways would shut down about 10 p.m. the last night so the Carnies could tear the rides down.  I'd imagine the RRX had twice or three times the rides & booths the small town exhibition I used to go to had, so they probably wouldn't have left for the next show, which was the Calgary Stampede, until sometime the morning even as late as the afternoon of the 2nd since the Stampede did not start until the 6th that year.  As it was a local midway company (Conklin is based out of Winnipeg), they may have given the workers a day off before embarking for Alberta.  IF they did leave the 2nd and Arnold stayed in their employ, they as a crew would not have made it to Calgary at all the 2nd, and Kelly was laid to rest the 3rd.  A lot of Carnies hire locals to help out and some do stay on...all it says is he worked with Stoppel at the RRX.  There was a very small window of time to get two provinces away after Kelly's body was found and reported on the 30th and the 2nd was the funeral home incident; not to mention somehow find out what funeral home she was at out of many.  Again this was privied information to the Cook family and some friends they may have told.  People deal with death in many bizarre ways so I believe it was a cousin or someone who felt close to Kelly who wanted to see her one last time (closure?), but was denied when asked.  After he left he may have had the thought of "What did I just go there for?" and may have been embarrassed by his action.  Not wanting to cause more pain to the Cook family, he just kept this a secret. 

I believe Arnold was in Winnipeg the entire time of the '81 RRX harassing Barbara, after all she was the object of his desires.  As I indicated in my previous post, Arnold was locked up at the city jail in Winnipeg from September through December of '81, as per page 7 of the Stoppel report, so he had to have been through a trial of some sort in August or early September, not traveling across country doing his deeds.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 22, 2011, 10:22:25 PM
Ahh, don't follow any links found by a "swarthy italian" search beyond the third link. Bad stuff! Quite the lyrics in the third.

Interesting stuff , keep at it..
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on February 23, 2011, 08:44:47 AM
Interesting sequence of events developing, may have to get it down on a timeline someday. If I am getting this right, T. Arnold was likely to have been in Calgary the week of the funeral home incident?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: abate9 on February 28, 2011, 08:11:38 PM
I Am new on her and want to say to CCF I haven't heard the name Darlene Stanton in over 30 years i lived in Calgary Alberta  in Bownees she was a very close friend to me as kids and i just want to say thanks to u for keeping her memory and telling her story as i tryed to find an article on her.  . It was sooo sad to hear what happend to her and a sick feeling came over me when i saw the name.  but I'm almost 41 years old now and can remember playing in my yard just months before. My heart goes out to the family for the loss.   
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 01, 2011, 01:04:01 AM
I Am new on her and want to say to CCF I haven't heard the name Darlene Stanton in over 30 years i lived in Calgary Alberta  in Bownees she was a very close friend to me as kids and i just want to say thanks to u for keeping her memory and telling her story as i tryed to find an article on her.  . It was sooo sad to hear what happend to her and a sick feeling came over me when i saw the name.  but I'm almost 41 years old now and can remember playing in my yard just months before. My heart goes out to the family for the loss.   

Sorry about your friend. Must have been scary and sad.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 01, 2011, 11:11:36 AM
This is such a strange case. There are a few thoughts I would like to voice here:
-If the perpetrator was local to Standard or Hussar, it would have made more sense to leave the body exposed, therefore directing the investigation away from his home area.
-Conversely, if the perpetrator was from the area where the body was found, it would have made more sense to leave it in the Standard/Hussar area, unless he intended to take Kelly home with him alive. If she did attempt to escape at Hussar, he would have probably bound and gagged her and transport her in the trunk of the car the rest of the way. Perhaps upon arriving home he found her asphyxiated, hence the trip to Chin Lake.
-If the perpetrator was a farmer, he would have buried Kelly on the farm, so he more likely lived in an urban/suburban setting.
-If the perpetrator was a travelling salesman or truck driver going through town on a regular basis, he would have had to stop doing so after the crime was committed, as his description was circulated. However, he could have had his regular route through Strathmore, and continue to do so without much trouble. It was a Strathmore paper where he first saw the picture of the figure skater, after all.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 01, 2011, 04:03:27 PM
That is a pretty logical collection of thoughts in relation to where Kelly was found Sherlock.  Strathmore seemingly the point of first connection.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 02, 2011, 12:05:35 AM
Based on the fact the killer used blocks to weigh the body in what is essentially a lake, I sort of suspect he never wanted the body to be found. And because of the amount of work spent dragging the body that far, bringing heavy blocks, etc, I would suspect that only a person comfortable with that setting would do so.

But your observations are good.

What spooks me is that this man appeared comfortable enough to show up at his victims house after phoning her like that. It takes a real cool person to do that, and to spend what must have been at least 30 - 60 minutes disposing of the body.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 02, 2011, 01:16:15 AM
Some more thoughts came to me while burning the midnight oil at 221B Baker Street:
-If the perpetrator had used a boat to dump the body, and if he had a better knowledge of Chin Lake, he would have dumped the body further from the shore.
-If the body was not dumped on the way home, but on a separate trip after arriving home, as I suggested earlier, the perpetrator would not have had to drive home soaking wet. He could have brought swimming trunks, towels, a change of clothes, a thermos full of hot tea or a bottle of spirits, to make the operation less hard on his body; not to mention cinder blocks and rope. No one was looking for Kelly at Chin Lake at that time, so even if being seen coming out of the water, he would not have looked too out of the ordinary, after all, some hardy souls like an early morning swim in cold water.
-I found no reference to the type of knots used, sometimes this can be a significant clue.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 20, 2011, 06:42:32 PM
I'd just like to respond to a posting a while back re: the possibility of Terry Arnold being the culprit in this case. It was said that a man at the funeral home on July 2, 1981, 'was being ordered to shut up, he claimed to have followed the suspect outside and gave his description of the suspect as being between 18 - 25... that was part and parcel of what the young man said on tv'. Not once did I ever hear this reported. I combed the July 1981 microfilm back issues of the Calgary Herald, and no mention of the funeral home visit was ever mentioned. Not until the April 10, 1982 edition of the Calgary Herald (page A1) did I find the funeral home visit mentioned. In that article, the man was described as 'being in his mid to late 30s'. But it's important to keep in mind that police have never said that they suspect the man who paid the funeral home visit was the killer - they have not been able to determine that. It was just very odd in that it was not public knowledge that Kelly's body was in that particular funeral home on that particular evening. Even 30 years ago, there were a lot of media outlets in Alberta. Until I see demonstrative proof of this description of the man as being much younger than what the police said in 1982, I can't believe it. I've never seen it reported anywhere, whereas anyone who doubts my mention of the funeral home visitor as being in his mid to late 30s need only access the back issue of the Calgary Herald newspaper edition that I cited here.

It was also mentioned that in the David Milgaard case, 'police were involved in placing suggestions in the minds of the witnesses in order to buttress their case against Milgaard'. True, and you can add Guy Paul Morin, Susan Nelles, and Robert Baltovich to the list of persons who were unjustly charged and prosecuted by law enforcement officials. Of course, such instances are in the minority, thankfully. But this doesn't compare at all to Terry Arnold. Morin, Nelles, etc., were targeted by police. Police have never 'gone after' Terry Arnold. In fact, police have never tried to definitively pin this crime on any identifiable individual(s). If the police had been acting as per the Milgaard case, then they would have pointed the finger at Terry Arnold, or whatever other person they thought may have committed the crime. But that didn't happen. Comparing Terry Arnold in the Kelly Cook case to Robert Baltovich in the Elizabeth Bain case is like comparing night and day - there's no comparison. It was mentioned that 'I believe that there are factions within the Police that have deliberately re-constructed the details of this case so as to keep T. Arnold from coming under scrutiny'. But why would the police do that? The police have never hid the fact that they're desperate to solve this case. What possible value would the police gain from not solving the case? It's because the police want to solve cases that they have very occasionally targeted the wrong individual, such as Susan Nelles in the Toronto Sick Children's Hospital deaths, and that's the diametric opposite of shielding a possible suspect from investigation and potential arrest.

It was mentioned that 'According to a Calgary Herald news reporter, Arnold had been residing in Strathmore Alberta'. Where was this reported? Once again, I'd need a particular article to refer to, with name of publication, date, and page section/number all cited in order to believe this. And of course, even if Arnold had been resident in Strathmore at the time doesn't mean he did it. There were quite a few people living in Strathmore then (and now).

If Terry Arnold barged into a Winnipeg hospital wanting to see a dying Barb Stoppel, where and when was this reported? Once again, I'd like to verify this with a citation containing the name of the official news media publication, date, and page section/number. I can't truly believe it otherwise, sorry to say.

It was mentioned that 'I can tell you that the newspaper report does not match what I heard on live television coming straight from the lips of one young male funeral home employee that day. He said the police wanted him and everyone else to say the suspect was older, he did not agree with the police age determination and adamantly said so on camera'. Where was this reported? What news channel and what show, and when exactly? Until I can verify this with an actual account of this interview, I'm afraid I can't put faith in it. If you feel that the lead investigator in this case, Cpl. Johnson, is hiding these details because his 'job would be on the line', then maybe you should contact the news media and report what is 'going on'. I can't see why the investigator's job would be on the line for failing to pursue all potential clues. As I mentioned earlier, why in the world would the police want to shield Terry Arnold, or any other person, from being implicated in this crime if there is actual bona fide evidence that the respective person actually did it?

It was mentioned that 'I don't want any reward or blood money'. Well, the reward in the Kelly Cook case is not blood money, which is when the relatives of a criminal pay money to the victim's family to atone for what the first family's kin member did. The reward fund in the Kelly Cook case was set up by Standard residents to spur the case being solved, as the $100,000+ reward is certainly tempting. It's not blood money. Besides, if you don't want the reward money, you can always donate it to a charitable cause.

It was mentioned that 'If a family member of Kelly's wished for me to provide a signed statement or submit to a lie detector test or speak with one of their representative, I would'. Please don't. I don't know the Cook family, but I'm pretty sure they'd say the same thing I say - if you have this evidence that can solve the case, go to the police and tell them what you know.

Finally, I looked at the posting indicating that the police were not interested in receiving tips. If you truly feel that Terry Arnold did it and were privy to an actual confession, then you've got to get a bit more aggressive. In other words, behave the same way with the police as you do on this board - be feisty and assertive. Demand to have an interview. Contact the news media if you feel the police are putting you off. And the site administrator (on this site) has offered to help anyone with submitting tips. In other words, the assistance is there. So I suggest you do it - prove the courage of your convictions by going to the police.

I'm not trying to be an ogre in saying all this. I'm just trying to set some things straight, that's all.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on March 20, 2011, 11:40:38 PM
This whole thing with the police saying it was not public knowledge where Kelly's body was being held after the autopsy has bugged me for a long time.  Since she was found on the 28th, positively ID'd the evening of the 29th, the news finally being in the papers the 30th, and her funeral July 3rd, this left 2 days for an obituary to be put in the papers.  I don't know why I didn't look in the obituaries earlier, but there it is in print in the July 2nd edition of the Calgary Herald on page D22 and in the July 3rd edition of the Herald on page A18, is Kelly Cook's obituary.  Usually in obituary columns, the family indicates which funeral home the arrangements have been made through and Kelly's obituary is no different.  "The Garden Chapel (Foster Funeral Home) at 540 16 Ave NW in Calgary" are listed as the directors.  This funeral home is still in business, but at a different location from 1981.  The old location is now known as the "Cat & Fiddle Irish Pub". On their website (the pub's) they even state it used to be a funeral home.  Anyone off the street following this story could have seen/read the obituary and headed down to the funeral home-curiosity seeker, distant family member...who the hell knows.  AaronP, any chance you can post the article from the April 10, 1982 article (or quote it)?  The Google news archives of the Herald doesn't have an online edition for that date. 

Here is the July 2, 1981 Herald: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19810702&printsec=frontpage  In the little blue strip above the paper, there is a box you can input a page number.  If you enter "107" it will take you to D22.  Her obituary is in the first column, 3rd from the bottom.

Aside from that, I am in the same boat as AaronP in regards to Arnold's involvement.  To tie a couple of loose ends up, the Calgary Stampede was from July 3-12 in '81.  The Red River Ex would have wrapped up approximately June 27th or 28th.  Referencing back to the Stoppel pdf file, Arnold didn't stay on with Conklin Shows in 1981, he was a local hire for the RRX as was Barb Stoppell (point 22, page 12).  It states "...Conklin Shows AT THE RED RIVER EXHIBITION hired him for the summer in 1981".  I realize it says "for the summer", but because it states the RRX as the only place he was with Conklin, I strongly believe he was there for that show only, the next point of the Stoppell file pretty much backs up my theory.   Arnold had dealings with the Winnipeg Police between June & October of 1981, where he was photographed a minimum of three times (point 21, page 12), so this indirectly says he was pretty much in Winnipeg the entire summer.  Conklin also tours extensively throughout summer (Calgary-Edmonton-Regina-Vancouver) from June until September, so their tour schedule contradicts his arrest file in regards to him staying on with them that particular summer.  AaronP, this same PDF file is where you will find it stated that Arnold went to "visit" Barb Stoppell at the hospital...as this was written by a police officer to obtain a warrant for Terry Arnold, I would say it's a pretty credible source (the link is on here several times, but I will post again) http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf .

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 21, 2011, 04:52:59 AM
I posted this earlier, but here it is again:

Calgary Herald, page D22, Thursday, July 2, 1981 (obituary section)

Cook - June 30, 1981, Kelly Jane Evelyn, aged 16 years, beloved daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Walter Cook of Standard, Alberta and sister of Marnie and Heath. Kelly is also survived by her maternal grandparents, Mr. and Mrs. Ernest Nixon of Standard. Services will be held at the Nazareth Lutheran Church, Standard, Alberta, Friday July 3, 1981, at 2:00 p.m. Pastors Orlo and Christine Lund officiating. Interment Standard Cemetery. THE GARDEN CHAPEL (Foster Funeral Home), 540 - 16 Ave. N.W. Directors.

I did notice a name and address of what appeared to be a Calgary funeral home mentioned. Whether Kelly's body was there that evening, I don't know. Keep in mind that the Calgary Herald in 1981 was a late afternoon, not a morning, newspaper.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 21, 2011, 05:22:54 AM
This is from the Calgary Herald article about the funeral home visit:

Calgary Herald, Page A1 (front page), Saturday, April 10, 1982

'Police seek Kelly mourner'

RCMP Inspector George Foulon says investigators want to speak with a man who visited a Calgary funeral parlor last July where Cook's body was being held after an autopsy before it was shipped to Standard. Foulon told The Herald that the man walked into the funeral home during the early evening of July 2 claiming to be a friend of the Cook family and "requested to view the body." He was told he could not and he left.

The Cook family has told police they were unaware of any friends of theirs who had tried to view the body in the Calgary funeral home. Nor was it public knowledge that the body was in the funeral home. He [Foulon] described the man as being in his mid to late 30s, about five feet, 11 inches tall and 165 to 170 pounds. He was heavy set and had a dark complexion.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 21, 2011, 12:16:36 PM
I do understand how difficult it is for most people to reconcile that the Police can have other motives that serve to obstruct a case such as this. I appreciate that the attitudes of disbelievers will reflect that. I've noted your points and will take them into consideration.

Some of these things that are hard to believe have been discussed in considerable detail already. like-

Quote
If Terry Arnold barged into a Winnipeg hospital wanting to see a dying Barb Stoppel, where and when was this reported? Once again, I'd like to verify this with a citation containing the name of the official news media publication, date, and page section/number. I can't truly believe it otherwise, sorry to say.
http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf  (http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf) .

Another little point about the funeral home suspect, doesn't anyone find it a tad funny that there is no mention of him untill nearly 10 months later? As noted in the April news report-
Quote
RCMP Inspector George Foulon says investigators want to speak with a man who visited a Calgary funeral parlor last July


and it is this description provided by Police that has been changed to match the earlier age description of the Standard suspect. Where is hair colour, glasses, clothing description etc?

Blue jeans, blue jean jacket white T shirt? Where did that come from? From the funeral home employees on the TV at the time who said he was in his early twenties.. The cops have and can confirm that clothing description for anyone wanting to ask. If Johnston doesn't have that in his file, he can go speak with his superiors as to why not. The rest falls under the same blanket, if they really want to solve this and are wanting to take statements in good faith, start here and demonstrate that! Otherwise (from my point of view), why would I or anyone else who knows of these things procede any further with them?

As it now stands, the Police are demonstrating to me that they do not want this information, that they are actively engaged in obstructing this case and that the main agents of that procedure are high ranking members with authorization from the top. ......blue jean jacket, white T shirt, go find it Johnston...


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on March 21, 2011, 01:41:14 PM
A big detail I notice is the fact that this "unknown" guy went to the funeral palour asking to see decomposed remains.  Aside from immediate family, who would expect to view decomposed remains under investigation?  Terry Arnold is the only one I know of, but God only knows who else lived in the area that may have been that desperate... have to be a "sicko" for sure.

A normal person knows that police are hard pressed to expect a family member to do this.... and would prefer if they didn't have to.  So how brazen was this guy?  how abnormal?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 21, 2011, 08:11:47 PM
Blue jeans, blue jean jacket white T shirt? Where did that come from? From the funeral home employees on the TV at the time who said he was in his early twenties.. The cops have and can confirm that clothing description for anyone wanting to ask. If Johnston doesn't have that in his file, he can go speak with his superiors as to why not. The rest falls under the same blanket, if they really want to solve this and are wanting to take statements in good faith, start here and demonstrate that! Otherwise (from my point of view), why would I or anyone else who knows of these things procede any further with them?

Can you please cite the news program, TV channel, and date and time this supposed interview was held? And why the police would want to shield Terry Arnold from potential prosecution in this case? In other words, what would the police gain from doing so?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 21, 2011, 11:22:49 PM
About 10 days after Kelly was found broadcast on a Calgary tv channel, around 6pm sorry didn't write the channel number down. Think there was no clothing description given to the police? Why not publicize it? Why wait 10 months to say-
Quote
RCMP Inspector George Foulon says investigators want to speak with a man who visited a Calgary funeral parlor last July

to Its not me you have to ask to explain that to you. Look at every other case in which Arnold has been named a suspect. Same same same...
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 22, 2011, 01:26:52 AM
I know exactly where that funeral home is. It's is just a couple blocks from where I used to live. 16th Ave is highway 1.

Now for some reason, it seems rather likely the person who visited was just a man off the street. That is a high traffic road and not some far out location. I walked past that address almost daily to work or KFC.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 22, 2011, 10:57:10 AM
The Calgary news (tv) had made mention of this incident prior to the funeral but possibly out of respect went quiet on it for a week or so until after the funeral. When a female reporter finally made mention of it again, the piece included a male employee of the funeral home speaking directly to her about the suspect. She made the comment that although the suspect description varied somewhat from the Standard suspect, they were similar enough except for age that they could possibly have been the same guy. In the description given out by the police 10 months later, at least one similarity is reflected in both suspects..
Quote
He [Foulon] described the man as being in his mid to late 30s, about five feet, 11 inches tall and 165 to 170 pounds. He was heavy set and had a dark complexion.

All earlier comments about this man barging in, making demands, and exhibiting brazen and unusual behaviour have disappeared in the Police version of events put out 10 months later.

The possibility remains open that both the suspect in Standard and at the funeral home were one of the same. The company which employed T. Arnold had just finished up in Winnipeg and was headed for Calgary at the time of this incident.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 23, 2011, 11:09:29 AM
For what it is worth, I am not sold on Terry Arnold in this case. One has to keep an open mind, and examine every possibility, but to me it is more likely that this was a crime committed by someone else. My (admittedly amateur) attempt at profiling came up with a single man living in a detached home in Lethbridge, a home shared with his widowed mother, who deceased not long before this crime took place.
Ref. Posts #655 & 658.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on March 24, 2011, 01:07:11 AM
Thanks for posting that article AaronP...as this thread is 45 pages long, it is getting easy to overlook some details as is the case when you originally posted her obituary which cited the funeral home name and address.  I firmly believe this was the funeral home as why would you hire one funeral home as "directors" and another to prep your loved one's body??  Just doesn't makes sense, so contrary to the police saying it was not public knowledge as to what funeral home her body was at, it in fact was.  If this guy showed up during the morning or early afternoon prior to the July 2nd edition hitting the streets, that would suggest it was likely a family member or family friend.  I also did not know the Herald was an afternoon paper back in the early 80's, so with this guy coming into the funeral home on the evening shows it may have been some dude off the street.

Lots of comparisons being made between Barb Stoppell and Kelly Cook, namely Arnold's visit to see how she (Barb) was doing at the hospital as the "link".  We then have somebody, of varying descriptions either asking or demanding to see Kelly's body.  Because of these two incidents, this makes Arnold somehow the guy who went to the funeral home?  Let's look at the psychology of these two matters.  IF Arnold was involved with Kelly's murder, this would make her victim #1 and Barb victim #2.  Kelly's abduction was well planned & thought out and she was probably murdered somewhere secluded.  Her killer abducted her after the sun went down to avoid townfolk from seeing Kelly in his car to further limit any kind of description of him or his car. We all know how hard the killer had to work to hide her body and where she was hidden, not to mention for how long and how far her body was located compared to her home.

Barb was killed at her job inside the shop, with the lights on where scores of witnesses got a very good look at the guy who was in there alone with her-the sketch resembles Terry Arnold.  Then her attacker waltzes out where another witness chases him for several blocks.  Barb is found alive, but clinging to life and is rushed to hospital, where after a few days Arnold makes a visit to her claiming to be her friend, but is not allowed to see her.  Barb eventually passes away from the assault a few days later.

The major difference between these two visits is Barb was alive at the time and Kelly was dead.  I firmly believe Arnold killed Barb and the only reason he went was to cover his own ass and see if she was going to pull through (or finish the job), thus being able to identify him.  It is well studied, documented & proven "past behavior predicts future behavior" and this is especially true in the criminal world.  Since the abduction and murder of Kelly worked so well, why wouldn't there be at least one criminal element of similarity between these two cases?  Why didn't Arnold go to a Winnipeg funeral home to try & see Barb's body then?  After all, he was in fact in Winnipeg at that time.  According to his psych report, he was apparently able to do a crime and progressively get better at it.  He would have gone so far backwards from committing the seemingly "perfect crime" with the abduction & murder of Kelly Cook (and doing it all by leaving very few witnesses) to murdering a girl in a donut shop during business hours, where many people get a good enough look at him to provide a well detailed description.  Then instead of leaving the scene of the crime through the back door instead of the front entrance like he did, shows no planning and lots of panic.  There was no planning or organization in any of Arnold's crimes- just random, impulsive attacks.  These two cases are so psychologically far apart from each other it makes no sense for the same perp to digress this horribly in any crime he/she commits, especially from one crime to the very next.  After the Stoppell murder, Arnold did seemingly get better with each crime, which agrees with his psych report.  It was only because of a diligent police officer who wrote down every person's name he encountered on the job was how a link and conviction was eventually made in Arnold's only known murder. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abate9...sorry I didn't mention this alot sooner, but I just happened to stumble on your childhood friend's name during my newspaper archive research with Kelly's case.  At any rate, you are welcome for bringing her name and story back.  I saw some striking similarities between her murderer and Kelly's murderer I had not seen mentioned on this thread before.  I hope you come back to this site to follow up and you see this, but do you recall what month (and perhaps the date) Darlene was abducted and what her murderer looked like?  I have come up empty in trying to find anything related to the man who was convicted of her murder.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
I left a more detailed post on Barb Stoppels thread that has some relevance to what has recently been discussed here. No I don't have any published news articles to support it, it was merely my own observation. Rick Stoppel or the Police file on Arnold, or Arnold's former boss, or former employees could likely confirm.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=114.msg59174#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=114.msg59174#new)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 25, 2011, 02:40:03 PM
When I compare this last post with post#273, something does not seem to add up.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 03:03:56 PM
They are two different/ seperate events, years apart, they aren't supposed to add up.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 03:11:36 PM
there was an earlier reference made to this event on a post located here.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg25817#msg25817 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg25817#msg25817)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 25, 2011, 07:27:42 PM
The Calgary news (tv) had made mention of this incident prior to the funeral but possibly out of respect went quiet on it for a week or so until after the funeral. When a female reporter finally made mention of it again, the piece included a male employee of the funeral home speaking directly to her about the suspect. She made the comment that although the suspect description varied somewhat from the Standard suspect, they were similar enough except for age that they could possibly have been the same guy. In the description given out by the police 10 months later, at least one similarity is reflected in both suspects..

The visit to the funeral home was made on the evening of July 2, 1981. Kelly's funeral was held the next afternoon. That's awfully fast turnaround time for TV news reporting if something was made prior to the funeral. At any rate, I don't believe this story about funeral home employees speaking directly to reporters about the 'suspect' and his description. This was never reported in any news accounts I read. I find that when I see old TV shows on youtube, I'm amazed at how I was sure I remembered certain episodes ended a certain way, and it turns out I was mistaken. Probably the same thing happened here. I recently read the July 6, 1981, edition of the Calgary Herald, following the funeral, and police were actually admitting that they had no leads to go on. Doubt they would have said something like this if funeral home employees had already been blabbing to reporters about how Terry Arnold had strolled in.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 07:37:10 PM
You doubt a lot Aaron and no doubt always will. I expect it now, wouldn't be the same if you didn't.

Quote
Quote
If Terry Arnold barged into a Winnipeg hospital wanting to see a dying Barb Stoppel, where and when was this reported? Once again, I'd like to verify this with a citation containing the name of the official news media publication, date, and page section/number. I can't truly believe it otherwise, sorry to say.
http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf (http://www.rickstoppel.com/Dloads/Warrant.pdf) .
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: MSprenkels on March 25, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
I wonder what Terry Arnolds bosses name was at the carnival. There would be a record of the vehicle he owned.  If Terry had wanted someone else originally, he must have been watching this other girl for a while... He must have made multiple visits to Standard. Was there a carnival in town Arnold could have worked at the prior summer....
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 25, 2011, 10:51:59 PM
All of that sort of information seems to very hard to come by. In the Barb Stoppel warrant it was a photo of Arnold wearing a Conclin T shirt that alerted the cop to the fact Arnold knew and had worked with Barb before. Barb's boss obviously would have known that, where was he? Why did the cop not obtain work records or find and question Arnold and Barb's employer? Why didn't Arnold's boss show up on his own to offer information? The suspect photo in Barb's murder obviously resembled Arnold. According to Barb, her boss was well aware of her complaints about Arnold.

There are a lot of things that could still be found that would go a long way to solving maybe more than anyone knows.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on March 26, 2011, 02:07:56 AM
I left a more detailed post on Barb Stoppels thread that has some relevance to what has recently been discussed here. No I don't have any published news articles to support it, it was merely my own observation. Rick Stoppel or the Police file on Arnold, or Arnold's former boss, or former employees could likely confirm.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=114.msg59174#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=114.msg59174#new)


I'm calling a spade a spade here.  Too many holes in your "early_barb" story for it to be even close to being Arnold & Barb.

#1: West Coast Amusements does the Armstrong, BC rodeo & fair-not Conklin Shows.  They are two separate midway companies with no affiliation to each other and are in fact rival companies.  Conklin strictly does the moneymakers in bigger centres and cities.  Armstrong, as of 2007, had a population of 4,524.

#2: Barb, like Arnold, was an employee for the Red River Ex and only the Red River Ex in 1981.  She was not on the traveling circuit...and referring back to point #1 above-not even the same company which employed them.

#3: Last paragraph, 4 lines down page 1 of your story: "She said they had complained to the boss but Arnold had an in with the
boss and I believe she said his step brothers worked there too and always stuck up for him
".  Arnold was 19 at the time, and it was in the one Herald article which stated he followed his brother's footsteps, Lynn & Leonard in the traveling carnival circuit.  Major flaw in this part of your story.  Any reason why a 19 year old would need his 13 year old brother, Lynn, to stick up for him or perhaps his even younger brother Leonard?  Or better yet, why children were being employed as travelling carnies?  Arnold only has one full blooded sibling, a sister named Tracy, so his two step brothers are younger than he from his mother's second marriage.  I am getting Lynn's EXACT age in referencing the Rick Stoppel file on page 13, point #24: "March 2, 1982-Terry Arnold got into an argument with a 19 year old female about her possible romantic involvement with his 14 year old brother, Lynn".

Arnold followed his half-brothers into the traveling circuit years later, not the other way around...this is how he wound up in Florida in the late 80's and needed to steal ID's and credit cards in order to fly back to Calgary shortly before Lapierre was found murdered near his Calgary residence.  He had no other way of getting back to Canada.  The Winnipeg Police also have files saying he was in constant trouble with them from June through October of 1981...this is where the investigators noticed in three booking photos he was wearing a cowboy hat, so another reason I highly doubt Arnold was in Armstrong, BC. 

Quote
"You doubt a lot Aaron and no doubt always will. I expect it now, wouldn't be the same if you didn't."

We doubt, because we have reasons to doubt and have factual data and articles to back them up. There's a reason why investigators aren't even considering Arnold as a POI in Kelly's case, it's because he can be accounted for elsewhere on both dates (abduction & funeral home incident).  It has nothing to do with him being some protected informant or whatever other conspiracy theory is out there about him.  If you want to continue this charade to try and make Arnold fit, have at it.  I, as well as AaronP, Sleuth & Sherlock aren't so easily fooled and do not buy into it for one second.  I don't mean to sound so brash, but this is getting ridiculous.

Like I said a few pages back, lets pretend what you said about Arnold picking up Kelly was true.  You said the original guy who made the calls at the gas station and arrangement with Kelly chickened out in picking her up, so Arnold who just happened to be in the area and know this guy at the time, volunteered to go pick her up for him that night.  Arnold liked what he saw and we all know the rest.  Since Kelly was picked up after dark, Kelly & only Kelly would have seen the driver, or Terry Arnold as you say...so, please explain how Arnold can be a match to the composite sketch and the physical description when the only person who would have seen him was murdered???

As of now, I refuse to spend one more moment of my time discussing Terry Arnold, unless he is a legit suspect like in Denise Lapierre's case, Roberta Ferguson's case or Barb Stoppel's case.





Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 26, 2011, 10:00:27 AM
I don't think the people I thought were being refered to as "step brothers" were even of that same family, the guys I saw were older. Had Arnold's dad been married before, was he an older man?

Hey, I gave the details as I recalled, including names of who and where it could be verified. Rick Stoppel would know where his sister was, how long in the carnival's employ, etc. As said and pointed out, obviously I couldn't have read this, it isn't published anywhere. If I made it up I have a whole herd of watchers waiting here to catch me at it.. so maybe there is something new here that isn't well known that could provide fresh leads?

There can be reasons for a lot of things that aren't readily apparent from news articles. How the carnival business works I don't know but possibly they share games and rides, sub contract portions, pick up each others employees etc? I don't know but if Arnold And Barb can be placed in Armstrong B.C. at the end of August, they could well have been in Calgary earlier at the time of the funeral home incident for instance.

It is just due diligence ccf.. go ahead take a break, post on your other suspects if you want. Will let you all know if and when there is confirmation. It's also why that early story was left on Barb's thread, there are other people who know these same things. Perhaps someone else will read and recall. There was a rape in Armstrong at the time of the carnival the year I saw all that, there could be a composite of a poi and maybe even a rape kit was used to preserve evidence.

If Arnold had worked for that same company for awhile longer than known, maybe even the year before, the company car that Barb described could also be an important lead, especially by chance it should match the description of that seen here. 

If any of this can be proven, it is of importance.

re:
Quote
so, please explain how Arnold can be a match to the composite sketch and the physical description when the only person who would have seen him was murdered???

I'll leave a more detailed explanation about this later to clear up the misconceptions. 


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 26, 2011, 03:06:38 PM
There are two prevailing beliefs about Terry Arnold's supposed involvement in the Kelly Cook case, namely that a) police don't want to consider him as a suspect because it would contradict all the other suspect description information that's out there, and b) that police were able to silence the media and prevent information from alleged funeral home employees who allegedly saw a young man on the night of July 2, 1981 from filtering into public awareness.

Let's look at these two allegations in light of another high-profile abduction/murder case: The Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka schoolgirl murders in Ontario. I'm sure everyone knows about these crimes. I'm also referencing the book Deadly Innocence, by Scott Burnside and Alan Cairns (published in 1995).

1) Contradicting previous information. Police had said that a white Camaro was the car used in the abduction of Kristen French, that two men were involved in the abduction, and that the dominant partner worked with his hands, perhaps in a metal shop. (page 56) Of course, we know now that this police information, which was partly based on an FBI psychological profile, was false. The only thing they got right in this initial description was the fact that two individuals were involved in abducting Kristen French. Everything else was wrong. The car used was a white Nissan, one of the two abductors was a woman, and Paul Bernardo (the dominant partner) had an accounting rather than a blue-collar background. But when the police realized the truth, did this stop them from moving in and arresting Bernardo (and striking up a deal with Homolka)? No! The police wanted to solve the crime, and if it meant conceding that previous descriptions were bogus, that didn't matter. The police weren't about to 'protect' guilty individuals even if nabbing them meant egg on law enforcement faces. When police have concealed evidence et al (Susan Nelles, David Milgaard, etc.), it's because they wanted to target someone who was presumed guilty. That's very different from not targeting someone believed to be guilty.

2) The police were able to shut up the media. Well, in the Bernardo case, police actually arrested Bernardo before search warrants for Bernardo's house had been signed, and before the joint forces interview team was fully prepared. (p. 324) Why did they do this, considering it's not good practice? It's because Global TV reporter Sue Scambati forced it (p. 324-325). She knew that something was going down, and that threatened the police investigation. Which meant the police arrested Bernardo before they should have. So the media was hardly submissive to the police in this case. Actually, it was the reverse. The media operates independently of the police - they're certainly not legal lap dogs.

So it would be advised to consider these points, as discussed in the context of a high-profile abduction/murder case, as regards the Kelly Cook case.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 26, 2011, 11:30:35 PM
The media is subject to laws that can be used to stop publication under certain circumstances.

from Friday's Globe and Mail Published on Friday, Mar. 23, 2007 7:49AM EDT Last updated on Tuesday, Mar. 31, 2009 10:24PM EDT

Quote
A man in the RCMP's witness protection program committed homicide, but we can't tell you anything about that homicide -- not even who he killed. We can't reveal the details because they might reveal his true identity, and the witness-protection law provides permanent confidentiality to the informants who enter it. The exceptions are extremely limited; unfortunately, committing homicide is not among them. Not even the family members hurt by his crime are permitted to learn the full story. Even after the man is dead, his identity will be protected.

from -
http://transfixed.net/trans/img/pg.%201%20the%20law.htm (http://transfixed.net/trans/img/pg.%201%20the%20law.htm)

Quote
The RCMP made some disturbing mistakes with at least one informant and agent in its witness protection program. That is what we know. What we don't know may be worse yet; but federal law in effect shields Canada's national police force from scrutiny for this aspect of its work. Trust us, Canadians are told. The story of the informant who committed homicide and maintained his confidentiality shows why trust is not enough.


Absence of documentation to place Arnold in Calgary doesn't constitute proof that he wasn't there. He finished his job in Winnipeg just before the funeral home incident. He was free to roam.

If the girl in the early Barb story was Victoria Spazkowski (sp) she would hold a wealth of information. If Barb had worked for a carnival the year prior to 1981, there is information yet to be obtained that could be applicable to Kelly.

There was talk that Arnold met this Armstrong girl at a hockey rink. He (maybe both together) lived in Calgary before moving to Winnipeg. A reporter once said they lived in Strathmore. This girl seen in Armstrong was of a very similar size as Kelly and even around the same age. Kelly was killed about two weeks after Victoria and Arnold broke up. Victoria apparently deliberately aborted their child.

Arnold returned spouting death threats against Victoria right out of the blue two years later. Joanne Peterson went missing that same week.

Arnold is claiming responsibility for both.

Victoria was not likely even aware that Arnold could be a suspect in this crime. She could provide much needed detail.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on March 27, 2011, 01:48:01 AM
I don't think the people I thought were being refered to as "step brothers" were even of that same family, the guys I saw were older. Had Arnold's dad been married before, was he an older man?

I am not talking about the dudes in black shirts. I am quoting what you have written right there in your story about what "Barb" apparently said directly to you. "...he has an in with the boss and I believe she said his step brothers worked there to and they stuck up for him".  Read the 2nd article down of the "Arnold news stories" on the mindy tran site.  It talks about his mother leaving his biological dad and having a second marriage which produced two half brothers-Lynn & Leonard.  The same two brothers who worked as carnies, in which Arnold followed in their foot steps.  Lynn would be the same brother indicated in the impression warrant as being 14 years of age at the time of the March, 1982 assault.

Quote
Hey, I gave the details as I recalled, including names of who and where it could be verified. Rick Stoppel would know where his sister was, how long in the carnival's employ, etc. As said and pointed out, obviously I couldn't have read this, it isn't published anywhere. If I made it up I have a whole herd of watchers waiting here to catch me at it.. so maybe there is something new here that isn't well known that could provide fresh leads? 

There can be reasons for a lot of things that aren't readily apparent from news articles. How the carnival business works I don't know but possibly they share games and rides, sub contract portions, pick up each others employees etc? I don't know but if Arnold And Barb can be placed in Armstrong B.C. at the end of August, they could well have been in Calgary earlier at the time of the funeral home incident for instance.

Every article written states they happened to work at the same carnival in Winnipeg and only in Winnipeg at the Red River Ex.  IF they worked together the whole summer on the circuit, this significant piece of information may not have been in the news articles, but it would have been in the Winnipeg Police warrant to help build their case against him to establish how long he really knew Barb.  Do you think the police wouldn't have access to both of their past employment records?  As I already stated, WCA hits the smaller centre market share for carnivals and have always been based out of Langley, BC.  Every company is independently owned and operated, meaning they use their own equipment and hire their own employees-just like any other business.  They don't borrow or share rides or employees to each other, especially when they are rival companies.  That's like a manager from McDonald's calling up a manager from Dairy Queen saying "Tom is on holidays this week, can I borrow Fred from you until he gets back?".  He & Barb were employed by Conklin Shows, not West Coast Amusements.  Also, no one in their right mind would e-mail or call Rick Stoppel to ask if his sister was a traveling carnie-which she wasn't.  The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is the impression warrant.

Quote
If Arnold had worked for that same company for awhile longer than known, maybe even the year before, the company car that Barb described could also be an important lead, especially by chance it should match the description of that seen here.

Doesn't sound like it, he spent most of 1980 with Victoria Spakowski in Calgary.

Quote
I'll leave a more detailed explanation about this later to clear up the misconceptions.

No need to, as nothing is going to change my mind or the opinion I have formulated.  I deal with people on a daily basis in my career life who constantly try to backtrack and change parts of their story to make everything fit when I have noticed elements did not add up or make sense from what they first told me and I called them out on it.  This is no different.  Your statements in posts #337 & #339 are very clear & precise that he did not make the phone calls to Kelly and all he did was pick her up prior to murdering her.  There is no way anyone could misunderstand what you had written in these two post and frankly, there are no misconceptions to clear up.

Quote
Kelly was killed about two weeks after Victoria and Arnold broke up. Victoria apparently deliberately aborted their child.

A sentence in a Herald article on the Mindy Tran site in regards to Arnold:
Quote
"The prospect so alarmed her that when Spakowski discovered she was pregnant shortly after leaving Arnold in January, 1981, she says she underwent a late-term abortion."

January to April are farther apart than two weeks.

Quote
Arnold returned spouting death threats against Victoria right out of the blue two years later. Joanne Peterson went missing that same week.

Arnold is claiming responsibility for both.

He may be claiming responsibility to both, but claiming and doing are two very different things.  As this is the Kelly Cook thread, I am not going to refrain far off the topic anymore, but in regards to the Pederson case here are some key detractors I picked up as I took a read through there recently:

#1: In 2008, the RCMP received a letter claiming to be from the man who was spotted in the phone booth with her.  The RCMP, however, are not releasing any details out of the letter which they believe would jeopardize their investigation.  They did imply there is enough detailed information in the letter for them to strongly believe the letter is from this man.  Arnold died in 2005...so unless he's hanging out with Elvis at Jimmy Hoffa's house, this is enough proof for me Arnold had nothing to do with this either.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=8ad71839-9491-43f9-a6fb-886546298333&k=38079

#2: The same color/description of car is described in the Kelly Cook & Joanne Pederson cases.  Again, you stated a while back Arnold drove the car from Winnipeg to Calgary as a delivery for his boss and he took the bus back to Winnipeg so the car couldn't be traced back to him in Kelly's murder.  So, again pretending he abducted & murdered JoAnne Pedersen, it is being assumed the same car was involved.  What did Arnold do, take the bus from Winnipeg to Calgary, track down whoever now had the car nearly 2 years later, borrow it and go to Chilliwack?  This is what is being implied and is a pretty far-fetched sequence of events.







Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 27, 2011, 05:45:18 AM
As concerns Terry Arnold, for anyone who listened to his 'confession' and/or for anyone who truly believes in his guilt in the Kelly Cook murder:

If you have any information about this case, please contact Cpl. Andrew JOHNSON, Calgary RCMP General Investigation Section at (403)-699-2611 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 27, 2011, 10:07:06 AM
Well well ccf, for someone who won't spend a minute more-
Quote
As of now, I refuse to spend one more moment of my time discussing Terry Arnold, unless he is a legit suspect like in Denise Lapierre's case, Roberta Ferguson's case or Barb Stoppel's case.

I guess Arnold is now officially a "legit suspect"?

Example of another misconception.
Quote
What did Arnold do, take the bus from Winnipeg to Calgary, track down whoever now had the car nearly 2 years later, borrow it and go to Chilliwack?  This is what is being implied and is a pretty far-fetched sequence of events.

Arnold claimed he delivered a car for his boss back at Kelly's time. Something or someone drew him to pick Chiliwack later. If he had developed some sort of relationship with his boss or whoever that first person was, he may have gone to visit him. Maybe that same guy had moved to Chilliwack? The guy may or may not have had the same car, but his tastes may have been to a similar one.

Point is, I leave my thoughts on some things in hopes it may provide leads and connections back to Kelly if things like this and everything else was investigated.

So the rest of the stuff you bring up ccf is in a similar vein. You can convince yourself all you want, you can restructure my words to your own liking or meaning but it means nothing to me. Once you said you were a million percent positive that Arnold couldn't be the guy based on the evidence you showed, I suspected a bad case of tunnel vision and gave up listening to you. Many a case has been doomed to remain unsolved by that same attitude.

I could explain my side on the other points you bring up too but as you say, don't bother its a waste of time.

This current poi description hasn't produced results. The Standard news at the time said there were varying descriptions provided. Where are the other descriptions?

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: MSprenkels on March 27, 2011, 02:26:46 PM
Arnolds mother had 6 children that went through foster homes... So he could have had other older siblings.. I noticed his 2 younger brothers and older sister were accounted for... There would be 2 other kids.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 27, 2011, 05:27:30 PM
The media can be subject to publication bans (e.g., as per Karla Homolka's manslaughter trial in 1993), but that doesn't apply to the Kelly Cook case. There's no record of such a legally-enforced publication ban being levied on this case. Publication bans typically apply to courtroom trials, which never happened (at least to date) in the Kelly Cook case. And as I mentioned before, why in the world would the police want to prevent a potential criminal from coming to justice in this case? It doesn't make any sense. In the Kelly Cook case, the police have disclosed information to the media, obviously in an attempt to generate more leads. There's no record of the police attempting to silence the media in this case.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on March 27, 2011, 05:38:28 PM
Quote
There's no record of the police attempting to silence the media in this case.

I'm here laughing my head off.... but it's not one bit funny.  Maybe I've just been around too long on this earth, or maybe things have changed (that wouldn't include Nova Scotia)  ... or maybe some people haven't been around long enough; I don't know what to think!  One thing I am more than certain about though, is that records are not kept when police attempt to silence the media or anyone else.  They just pick up the phone and do it.... and everybody dealing with them play stupid if questioned about it.  Although you will get a few in the media who stand up and declare when this happens .... and you'll also get a few media who won't broadcast such, but if you ask them, they will tell you when they've dictated  a "gag order".
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: MSprenkels on March 27, 2011, 08:57:53 PM
If we want to rule out Arnold, find out who his boss was at the carnival and what he drove... Also if he moved to Chilliwack 2 years later... Might sound tricky but I know that carnival company is still around ...
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on March 28, 2011, 01:03:03 AM
Well well ccf, for someone who won't spend a minute more- I guess Arnold is now officially a "legit suspect"?

Nope, not at all.  I know what I said, just took the bait is all.

Quote
You can convince yourself all you want, you can restructure my words to your own liking or meaning but it means nothing to me.


I haven't restructured one word you ever put down "to my liking" as you put it.  I have either quoted it word for word or referenced the post number and what you had written.  You backed your own self into a corner with all these fancy details, explanations and stories you like to keep adding.  Like I said, I deal with this in my professional life day in and day out.  I just let them talk until they contradict themselves.  I knew this would eventually happen, like the contradiction I stated in regards to the composite sketch match question I posed in posts #644 & #679. 

Quote
Once you said you were a million percent positive that Arnold couldn't be the guy based on the evidence you showed, I suspected a bad case of tunnel vision and gave up listening to you. Many a case has been doomed to remain unsolved by that same attitude.

Wow.  I have tunnel vision?  Now that is the pot calling the kettle black.  I am not the one with the fixation on one guy and I am not the one who won't entertain other details or possible suspects.  In fact I have mentioned several names and events as I like to keep an open mind-go on and look, all my posts are still there.  Am I just supposed to believe some dude on an anonymous forum who supposedly heard a confession, and now I am also supposed to shut the door on any other possibility all because you expect everyone to believe your story and only your story as the gospel truth?  Give your head a shake.  In addition to this, every new detail or suggestion which not only emerges, but logically points the finger away from your guy, you usually have a fast & ready explanation or new story with specific details and a verbatim conversation you somehow recall from over two decades ago to spin the centre of attention back on your guy.  If this isn't the definition of tunnel vision, I don't know what is.  Trust me, I not only stopped listening to you, I stopped believing you and every one of your "stories" in this thread a long time ago, beginning with your hypothermia story.  Like I said a few posts back, this charade is getting ridiculous.  As AaronP stated, if it isn't from a credible source-like a news article or news video (or impression warrant), I am not going to believe some random person, unless he/she can prove it and back it all up with some sort of credible evidence.  Hearsay is not evidence unless it can be backed up with facts.

I am going to leave this conversation at that as this not the appropriate thread, or forum for that matter for this to continue.  You & I know where we both stand, so I'll disregard all your future posts and you can disregard mine.  Don't bother replying or responding to me in any way because you won't get one back-unless there is a future resolution to this case we can then all discuss civilly.



 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on March 28, 2011, 02:28:47 AM
The police can't arbitrarily shut the media up at will. There has to be a legally-enforced ban or other legal reason as to why the media can't report on specific details (e.g., revealing the identities of minor-age suspects). And besides, why would the police want to shut the media up in this case? Because they don't want a suspect from being investigated and potentially charged? That makes no sense at all. I'd need demonstrative proof, such as a news article or some such thing, to believe that the police really did shut the media up about the Kelly Cook case. The media has been reporting on it for almost 30 years now, including most recently with an interview with Kelly's sister Marnie. Doesn't appear as though they've been gagged!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 29, 2011, 02:21:19 AM
Cases remain unsolved for a reason, if nothing is to be entertained other than old published reports; the case is likely to remain unsolved forever. We are seeking new information for most unsolved cases on this site. If that shows up, discussions ensue on how to test that and how best to turn that into evidence. It begins with whatever story it happens to be and gets fleshed out from there.

In the case of Terry Arnold there is a pattern showing up that does not instil confidence in any investigation in which he has ever been named. What happened to Thomas Sophonow in Barb Stoppel’s murder is disturbing. How Arnold got away with multiple murders despite what appears to be sufficient evidence is quite troubling. How Sophonow describes the mind set of his investigators is quite similar to what has been displayed on here as of late; investigate any other suspect other than Terry Arnold for any murder he may have committed seems the main objective in most all cases involving him.

CCF, seeing as we are down to calling a spade a spade on here as you say in your most recent comments alleging that this is some sort of charade; you are basically calling me a liar, that I am making some or all of this stuff up for some unknown purpose. Those are very serious allegations. This was the murder of an innocent young girl, anyone who would play games with that either to falsely implicate or falsely detract from identifying the real killer is as bad as the killer himself in my books. Anyone who would come on here with the intent to play games with something like this is so far beyond the norm that it is hardly fathomable. That’s what you are basically trying to spin on here about me, that I am making things up about a child’s murder and posting it for all to see. If you truly believe that, I would advise you to call the Police and report me immediately.

As I said, I could explain your misconceptions as to my posts but it seems you would rather let your own interpretation replace mine no matter what I said. I was the author remember, I know what I said and meant.

My position on here was unusual in that I heard the confession and I post in a manner that reflects my unusual circumstance. Seldom does one go to the degree as seen by you CCF to dispute something like this in the manner you are without having a similarly unusual motive or vested interest.

Anyone saying that they are one million percent convinced of the validity of any standpoint and that there is nothing more that can be said to alter that opinion is of the same narrow-minded focus that resulted in the false conviction of Thomas Sophonow for the murder of Barb Stoppel. Arnold is the same suspect in that crime as is being put forth here. There is a huge amount of evidence to show where the investigation of Barb Stoppel's murder went wrong. CCF, your position on here is virtually identical to the investigators in Barb’s murder. They were all supposed professionals, seasoned pro’s accustomed to questioning people and ferreting out the truth. Real bang up job they did with Sophonow, how many trials was that?

Its no surprise to me that sort of thing would show up here sometime too if Arnold really is the guy behind this crime.

So maybe we are getting closer now? The story I left on early Barb provides a means to locate verifiable links to real evidence. The story itself means nothing as far as evidence itself, but where it could lead is not yet known.

Investigators:
Go back to 1980 for work records for Terry Arnold, find his old boss. Find where Terry Arnold lived while in Calgary, was it in Strathmore? Where did he meet his then young girlfriend, was it at the hockey arena? Was it the Strathmore arena?  The investigation into Barb Stoppel’s murder hardly entertained Arnold as a suspect then for her let alone Kelly. No one has looked!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Valkyries on March 29, 2011, 08:34:35 AM
Hi Everyone,
My Husband and I are looking to live in Standard and heard about Kelly. Makes our heart break to know there was never any justice. I keep thinking about this all week. After reading more about her murder, and talking about it, we were wondering some things...
* Did they ever update her case files (ie check for DNA, hairs, etc)?
* Is her case still being actively investigated?
* We noticed coming into Standard from the south that Christensen is the very first street sign, was it there in 81? It would make comin up with Bill Christensen a lot easier.
* We viewed a house with cinder block foundation right across from the school yard...which made us think, has anyone thought that maybe this guy was doing work on someones place there? They are people that instantly aren't cognitively recognized as strangers in the neighborhood once they are working there. Is it possible this person was doing work on a place and people just put those people out of their heads as suspects?
* How did he figure out who the other girls name was? Is it possible someone had a family member visiting that would go unnoticed as a threat? No matter how innocent they think their family is, everyone should think about their friends and family. Does the description ring a bell? They say killers are the less likely to be suspected. They look and interact like anyone else, this could be an uncle, a cousin, a best friend, etc.
* This person obviously needed some sort of boat to go onto the reservoir...either near the reservoir or had to hook it up on his truck and take with. The only other alternative being he walked her into the site, which means someone had to notice him when he came home. He'd be wet and filthy plus the lake would have been freezing.
* Also, what are the odds he had cinder blocks just on hand? if he wasn't in construction, he would have had to buy them. Did anyone put out that they were inquiring who sold cinder blocks those 3 months?
* Do people ever go watch the reservoir to see if this creep comes back at all?
* Is there any way for somebody to help?

Just some things we have been thinking about since we first heard about her disappearance and murder.
Our heart and condolences goes out to her family, friends and neighbors.
We realize this year will be the 30th anniversary, and want to make sure this sick creep doesn't get away with this.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 29, 2011, 06:27:14 PM
Could someone explain to me when and how did I become a member of this "gang of four"? All these petty arguments divert attention from what we all should be focussing on, i.e. who was behind this horrendous atrocity perpetrated on an innocent 15-year-old girl!
Valkyries, you are raising some very good questions. While some names were bandied about, such as D1's candidate Terry Arnold, and as pointed out by CCF, a certain Joseph Zimmer, who was later convicted of a similar crime, we are still in the dark about the identity of the perpetrator. I believe Zimmer merits closer scrutiny than what he received this far. Perhaps somebody living in Alberta could research him further.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 29, 2011, 10:49:36 PM
Hello Valkyries, thanks for joining. Wow 30 years, I forgot about that. I guess you were not there in 1981.

* Did they ever update her case files (ie check for DNA, hairs, etc)?
I am sure they have yes, anything they could test.

* Is her case still being actively investigated?
Yes!

* We noticed coming into Standard from the south that Christensen is the very first street sign, was it there in 81?
Yes there was/is a lot of Christensen in teh area since the founding of the town.

* How did he figure out who the other girls name was?
In the town newspaper. He saw a photo of her. that girl referred him to Kelly.

* This person obviously needed some sort of boat to go onto the reservoir.
No it could have been iced over at the time. He may not have needed a boat. If he did, then he clearly is from somewhere near Chin Resivior.


* Also, what are the odds he had cinder blocks just on hand?
Good point. Which is why most people think the killer lived nearby, and only choose to dispose of the body when he killed her unplanned.

* Is there any way for somebody to help?
Yes. If you talk to a resident who was around in 1981, find out what they think or know. A lot of people saw the killer in town before hand, but no one seen him since or knew who he was. If any info about the guy could be added to this site, someone who happens to visit here might read it, confirming a feeling they had abotu someone.

The description IMO is a very good one, but still, people are divided on what certain things mean.

I hold out hope this case can be solved, there has to be someone out there who knows, and wants to tell, but just waiting.

P.S. I have a question about Standard not relating to the Cook case. Do you know if or when the tracks in town are going to be pulled?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on March 29, 2011, 10:53:13 PM
Hi everyone.

In the last few months, I have gotten a number of messages sent to me about this case. Peopl angry about how the town of Standard itself was described, and a LOT of people upset about speculation regarding the killer. At this point, I think I am going to split this topic, moving the speculation to the members lounge and leave the other posts here.

I'll also remove posts that suggest Standard is corrupt or residents are protecting someone. I have been to Standard a few times, it is a fine town and there is no chance anyone is protecting anyone.

The last thing I want is to upset people or family of Kelly Cook, and I definitely do not want to give people the impression this case is solved unofficially either.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 30, 2011, 10:25:53 AM
re:
Quote
* Is her case still being actively investigated?
Yes!

That is good to hear! Is that recent news? Any updates forth coming?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on March 30, 2011, 10:41:16 AM
I am not holding my breath that any information will be released. However, after this many years, it probably would not hurt the investigation if some details were made known. The type of blocks used to weigh down the body, the type of rope used, the type of knots employed could all provide hints.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on March 30, 2011, 02:05:56 PM
Quote
In the last few months, I have gotten a number of messages sent to me about this case. Peopl angry about how the town of Standard itself was described, and a LOT of people upset about speculation regarding the killer. At this point, I think I am going to split this topic, moving the speculation to the members lounge and leave the other posts here.

I'll also remove posts that suggest Standard is corrupt or residents are protecting someone. I have been to Standard a few times, it is a fine town and there is no chance anyone is protecting anyone.

I have left a request on dispute resolution for this thread not to be split or altered in any way shape or form. Some posts on here are actually evidentiary in nature and the exact context they have been presented in should be preserved.
post at members lounge-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4235.msg59432#msg59432 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4235.msg59432#msg59432)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on April 04, 2011, 12:46:29 AM

The following hyperlink shows the varying depths in Chin Lakes:


http://srd.alberta.ca/MapsFormsPublications/Maps/PrairiesAreaBathymetryDepthMaps/documents/chin.pdf


The bridge crossing Chin Lakes isn't directly shown, but you can see the highway on both sides. The interesting things I noticed were as follows:

1) There's a boat launch on the south shore of the lake, immediately to the east of the bridge

2) The water around the bridge is fairly shallow (not surprising, given that bridges are usually built over shallower areas of lakes and rivers for obvious reasons)

As per previous news articles I've referenced, Kelly's body was dumped on the north side of Chin Lakes about 200 yards from the highway bridge. I do not know whether the body was found to the west or east of the bridge. But the attached picture reminds me of the pic I saw in the Alberta Report article from July 1981 showing the Chin Lakes reservoir - it was taken from roughly the same spot. Assuming the 1981 pic showed that part of the reservoir where Kelly's body was found, then this attached picture could possibly have been taken near the spot where Kelly's body was dumped. But this is merely speculation on my part.

For the longest time, Google Maps showed a very blurry depiction of Chin Lakes.  With their 2011 upgrade, it is much clearer and you can clearly see the boat launch on the SE side of Chin Lake, along with a dock, a rather large parking lot and what appears to be a beach.  On the north side of the lake, there is a turnout-but no parking lot.  Maybe room for two or three vehicles which may be used for fishermen to fish from shore there.  Bobcat stated back around page 30 or so Kelly's body was found on the east side of the bridge, and as many news articles have stated approximately 180 meters from the bridge (roughly 600 feet).  At the very bottom of the Google Maps screen is a distance scale.  I zoomed in so the scale showed a distance of 500 feet, measured a bit in excess of that to simulate 600 feet, then measured from the bridge to that end point.  It is almost-but not quite- a straight shot from the boat launch across the lake.  As many others have speculated (myself included), I too have wondered if there was a boat used in disposing her body, but the thing which bothered me was how much ice may still have been on Chin Lakes that 3rd week of April in 1981.

I took a look back into the weather history for Taber, from Feb.22/1981 to April 22,1981...it was a very warm late winter/early spring during those 60 days.  I counted 45 days where it was at least +5 for a daytime high and 35 days where it was at least +10 for a daytime high.  There were very few days where the daytime high did not reach 0 degrees.  I also looked at daytime lows, and there were only 17 days where the temperature hit -5 or colder in that 60 day period, with most coming in February and the first three weeks of March (9 of 17 days were in March prior to March 22nd).  Once the ice started coming off, it likely did not get or stay cold enough for a long enough stretch of time for a lot of the lake to ice over again.  April was also very warm in the Taber area, so that may have sped the process up.  Chin Lake may have been the only body of water on/along a highway with the ice completely off at that time...perhaps her abductor/killer crossed that bridge frequently.  When you see how many lakes or bodes of water there are between Standard & Taber (Lake Newell-which is also a Provincial Park, Keho Lake & Traverse Reservoir to name just a few-there are many others), you just can't help but think this was the pre-planned dump site which was familiar to her killer.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 05, 2011, 10:27:44 AM
Well thought out points, CCF. The use of a boat is a possibility. The temperature of the water on the night that Kelly was abducted may be immaterial if the body was dumped later. Some perpetrators keep a victim's body in a freezer until they are ready to dump it, and it can mean an extra two or three weeks for the water to warm up.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 08, 2011, 11:57:17 AM
I have been posting information on this site about this crime for years. I have continually been told to take the story of Terry Arnold to the Police. Instead I sent a link to this thread into crime stoppers. I never got any reply, I left the link on here for anyone interested to see and access the results for themselves.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg41881#msg41881 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg41881#msg41881)

Not too long ago I left a post on here in part designed to provoke a response from the Police.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg55249#msg55249 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg55249#msg55249)
quote:
Whether Cpl Johnson is just a career minded paper pushing puppet or a man of some personal integrity, I know not.

Shortly afterwards a few people began posting in an unusual manner even claiming to be a million percent positive that Arnold was not involved in this crime. I came under virulent personal attacks and my motives impugned as being some sort of a charade. 

Quote
You backed your own self into a corner with all these fancy details, explanations and stories you like to keep adding.  Like I said, I deal with this in my professional life day in and day out.  I just let them talk until they contradict themselves.  I knew this would eventually happen, like the contradiction I stated in regards to the composite sketch match question I posed in posts #644 & #679.

For anyone interested:
Alberta.com Special Report, April 22, 2001, "Who Killed Kelly?"

Quote
'A man fitting the suspect's description was believed to have been in a hotel bar in Standard April 22. An informant told police the man used the phone in the bar, bought a case of beer, and left'. (2)

This will be my last post. Attached below is a summation of what Arnold said along with the rest of the details that I have never told before. I will not hamper this discussion any further or cause any more trouble for anyone over this. There are people who may be endangered by this but IMO they would be far more endangered if this were only being told behind closed doors to the Police. If any of these people mentioned in here should go missing or be found dead for any reason before the relevant information is obtained by the Police or by other means, I want everyone and their dog to see this for themselves and know what is happening.

I wish to point out the background and context for my past posts and comments on this thread. I was the one who heard Terry Arnold’s “confession” story. If I don’t tell this story, no one will. There was an abundance of detail that passed by in a very short period of time. Of at least 5 victims named by Arnold, he is the official prime suspect in at least three of those. Of those three that are known, there is evidence of a pattern of Police bungling to the degree it raises questions as to whether there was some deliberateness to it. Two of those cases even have DNA evidence that the Police will not test to this day. Some of those cases have been closed with publicity bans. The only murder Arnold was ever charged with and convicted of was suspiciously stayed afterwards. The FBI reports that Arnold has been implicated in numerous murders in the United States also.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg42017#msg42017

Of the other two victims not publicly linked to but mentioned by Arnold during the 1989 conversation with me, neither has been investigated from that perspective. This is the only place you will find this story. How many other victims of this guy read just like that of Kelly Cook and Joanne Pederson? No leads, cops stumped, case grows cold; the travelling carnival serial killer never mentioned.  Kelly may have been the very first of many to meet the same fate at the hands of this killer. In hindsight, she may be telling us far more than anyone could have imagined at the time. 
Joanne Pederson is at-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.0  (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=69.0)

I began posting this story on here partly because of the people who are on this board including families of other murder victims who may have some thoughts and insights on what you do with something like this. Distrust in the motive and intent of Police in regard to anything involving T. Arnold is totally justifiable in this case imo. You’d have to be blind deaf and dumb not to smell something fishy.

As stated numerous times Arnold was a known con, a liar, a manipulator, a police informant and a storyteller with considerable criminal experience. However he was apparently a serial killer also. It’s been questioned whether Arnold was just bragging about other crimes to add notches to his belt so to speak or if he really could have done it. That is what I hoped to determine by way of this discussion.

To answer that, the details would have to be explored. I was in the position on here where I had to supply Arnold’s story as I recall it to the best of my ability and had to stay as close to what was actually said to be as accurate as possible in case any of those details meant something to anyone else reading these posts no matter how implausible. That’s how it began, an exploration, an unfinished work designed to flesh out the evidence wherever possible from the details and see where the leads would go. I am not only supplying the detail, but Arnold’s interpretation of that detail, responding to other peoples interpretations of all this as well as coming to my own conclusions based on the outcome of the discussion on each point. This is a discussion forum, it’s a fluid thing. I was not providing a Police statement on here yet, it was a work in progress.

There are those who would throw this whole thing out simply because Arnold was a known liar, and there have always been those who have tried to divert attention away from T. Arnold to the point of causing one of the most troubling cases of wrongful convictions in Canadian history. Thomas Sophonow knows all too well the degree of interference employed to divert attention from T. Arnold. There isn’t going to be much if any official help with this IMO.

Exploring the details left by Arnold with this as the background was not an easy or simple task. Arnold inserted interpretation and posturing on top of the detail he provided in his story possibly and quite likely just to make himself look and sound better at least in his own mind. Some of that may not be true at all and may have no bearing on anything whatsoever but I left it in as it was part of his original story.

Parsing all of that up so as not to be throwing out the baby with the bath water was a challenge. It requires time and patience and as much new detail about each point as can be gleaned. It requires help from a whole lot of people honestly and diligently looking, seeking, and contributing in the spirit of truth. What ever gets found gets left here for all to see, not just left for the Police to play games with in some back room. It’s all out here in the open for everyone to see, the good the bad and the ugly. I thank everyone who helped in that endeavour along the way.

Kelly's family and the entire community all want and deserve closure and the Police can provide that. The procedure to do so was requested and authorized at very high levels prior to Terry Arnold ever being exempted from investigation as evidenced in his later crimes. The laws that protect people like this are not retroactive in this case.

(2) Alberta Report, June 5, 1981, p. 35

'The abduction of Kelly Cook has stirred up emotions in the Standard area to the point where the case was raised on the floor of the House of Commons last week. Progressive Conservative MP Gordon Taylor, who represents the riding of Bow River, in which the village is located, asked Solicitor-General Robert Kaplan to ensure that every effort is made to find the girl'. (2)

The citizens of Standard and all concerned citizens have a right to demand a full and proper investigation of this information and even a full-blown inquiry into this crime if this isn’t investigated. The old guard is falling but the remnants can still be found and called upon to help bring an end to this sad and troubling tale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZYNaVUqXRc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZYNaVUqXRc#ws)
 
Kelly’s Last Chance:
Attached :
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Jason van Rassel on April 08, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
Not too long ago I left a post on here in part designed to provoke a response from the Police.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg55249#msg55249 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg55249#msg55249)
quote:
Whether Cpl Johnson is just a career minded paper pushing puppet or a man of some personal integrity, I know not.

I've posted to this site on other topics, but only recently read through this thread.

I'm not going to engage in the circular Terry Arnold debate, but let me offer a point of clarity to all involved: Andy Johnson has not been with the RCMP major crimes section for at least two or three years. He's assigned to the Alberta Serious Incident Response Team, the provincial squad that investigates police conduct in cases involving death or serious injury.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Chris on April 09, 2011, 12:54:01 AM
Quote
Not too long ago I left a post on here in part designed to provoke a response from the Police.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=53.msg55249#msg55249
quote:
Whether Cpl Johnson is just a career minded paper pushing puppet or a man of some personal integrity, I know not.

Shortly afterwards a few people began posting in an unusual manner even claiming to be a million percent positive that Arnold was not involved in this crime. I came under virulent personal attacks and my motives impugned as being some sort of a charade. 

Hi D1,

I wish we would not provoke police or draw people here by attempting to poke at the persons integrity.

Almost all of the people who have sent me email about this case, the angry people, are not members of this site, mostly current or former residents of the town, all of whom clearly were tipped off about this site.

Yes I like different idea's, points of view, but I do not like that tactic being used here.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on April 09, 2011, 01:04:18 AM
Actually I agree, just got tired of the status quo after 30 years with nothing new happening. Reporting to Crimestoppers didn't generate any response.. Apologies.

Added- I should have rephrased that to; I wished to elicite or encourage a response from Kelly's investigator in the same spirit as the investigator of Barb Stoppel's murder who provided the impression warrant directly to the family when all else failed. At least the Stoppel family got some measure of closure albeit imperfect.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 10, 2011, 07:43:42 PM
Focussing on some technical details: depending on whether two cinder or concrete blocks were used to weigh down the body, an extra 60 or 80 pounds were added to Kelly's weight, to be dragged or carried into the water, assuming no boat was used. It would definitely have been much easier to dump the body from a boat...By the way, does anybody have any information on Kelly's height and weight at the time of her disappearance, for reference purposes?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 10, 2011, 08:30:16 PM
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cc-afn/cook-kelly-eng.htm

Going by the photo at the RCMP site, could she have been around 115 pounds approx? The weights added to body weight may have been enough to capsize a regular sized boat?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 10, 2011, 08:40:58 PM
I was looking at the same photograph on the same website before I posted earlier, and my estimate would be around the same.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 10, 2011, 08:55:57 PM
So with weights added, approximately 175 to 195 pounds. It's a difficult task for one person to maneuver a deceased body, so how would that go with weights added? Could a body in rigor float until the weights were dropped over as well? If that was the case, then the perp was skilled.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 10, 2011, 09:28:32 PM
The body would appear lighter in water than in air, but the water would offer more resistance than air in moving the body. It would be easier to handle a body that is in rigor mortis, or frozen (we can not rule out the possibility thay the body was kept in a freezer for a period of time), than one that is limp. I reckon that dumping a body from a boat could capsize a light boat if not done carefully, as it was suggested, but someone experienced enough, such as one who regularly fishes from a boat, should have no issues with it.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 18, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
Here is an accused pedophile from Coaldale, near Lethbridge, who is the right age to be a suspect. What is needed to be found out is:
-was he still living in the area in 1981?
-was he at the time recently separated or divorced from his wife?
-what kind of vehicle did he drive then?
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2011/01/05/16774896.html
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 18, 2011, 07:45:15 PM
http://www.fcaoc.org/ab_s.htm

Scroll down, third church/minister listing. :o :o Is this the same person? Seems to be, same middle initial as well as names. I hope the church and his activities with youth groups was monitored, if this is the same person.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 18, 2011, 10:16:04 PM
Brilliant work, SAP! Same name and middle initial, right area (he is mentioned as "an Edmonton man" in the article), and an occupation that would explain why the perpetrator had to wait until after Easter to carry out his plan. He is definitely worth a serious look!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 19, 2011, 12:19:13 AM
I would not want to cause problems for a "man of the cloth" if the person is innocent. Checking further,

  Orsten, R K    Edmonton Alberta Canada
  Orsten, Richard K    Bon Accord Alberta Canada
There's a Richard Orsten who works in the Bon Accord Treasury Branch.
The link I gave in the first post is 2 yrs old. I checked the current phone book for Bon Accord and also Fort Saskatchewan and there is no RK Orsten listed. I'll look more tomorrow, perhaps even phone. I would really think that if these are the same person, the Police would have found that in their investigation, not?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jobo on April 19, 2011, 03:25:15 AM
Try Canada 411, it might help too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 19, 2011, 09:43:38 AM
White Pages Canada has 3 listings for R. Orsten in Alberta, in Calgary, Airdrie and Edmonton.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on April 19, 2011, 02:22:24 PM
IMO that person in that situation was a crime of opportunity over a young girl living with and in his care and to me has no similarities to Kelly's case at all...!!! Sure he was a bad guy... but nothing computes accept that and he lived in the area near where her body was discovered... It was not a planned out crime on an unknown indvidual miles from where he was...
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 19, 2011, 05:03:15 PM
BigAl2, you are absolutely correct about the two cases being dissimilar in the particulars you pointed out. However, circumstances can change in an individual's life. Just the fact that this person lived in the area where Kelly's remains were found makes him a more likely person of interest than a certain 18-year-old from Winnipeg that some people seem to have nominated as their number one suspect. I, for one, do believe that RKO merits further attention, if only to eliminate him from the inquiries.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on April 19, 2011, 05:17:24 PM
BigAl2, you are absolutely correct about the two cases being dissimilar in the particulars you pointed out. However, circumstances can change in an individual's life. Just the fact that this person lived in the area where Kelly's remains were found makes him a more likely person of interest than a certain 18-year-old from Winnipeg that some people seem to have nominated as their number one suspect. I, for one, do believe that RKO merits further attention, if only to eliminate him from the inquiries.

I get it... I am learnin'... LOL
I fully agree about the 18 year old from Winnipeg... heard enough about that one! I keep scearching but find no more info about Joseph William Francis Zimmer... that case is just to similar... wish there was a picture somewhere and some way to find out if he has been paroled or was ever questioned in regards to Kelly... 30 years is long enough!!! This case has bothered me for 30 years just living in the area... can't imagine being family!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: sherlockholmes on April 19, 2011, 05:32:04 PM
BigAl2, I did try to find out more about Zimmer, alas, to no avail! The crime he was tried for was a lot more similar in its details to Kelly's case than any other that I encountered this far. One significant difference was the method of disposing the body.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 21, 2011, 11:40:26 AM
Richard Orsten is still ministering in Bon Accord and living in Edmonton.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: BigAl2 on April 22, 2011, 11:04:52 AM
Thinking of Kelly and her family today... 30 Years!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 22, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
April 22, 1981... now it's April 22, 2011. 30 years later, and justice has still not been done. No official resolution of this case as of yet.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on April 22, 2011, 01:04:34 PM
April 22, 1981... now it's April 22, 2011. 30 years later, and justice has still not been done. No official resolution of this case as of yet.

There's been no unofficial resolution to this case either, only a number of varying opinions. It remains unsolved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 23, 2011, 06:02:18 AM
April 22, 1981... now it's April 22, 2011. 30 years later, and justice has still not been done. No official resolution of this case as of yet.

There's been no unofficial resolution to this case either, only a number of varying opinions. It remains unsolved.


I agree with what you're saying. But 'theories' have been put forth on this board to suggest that the case is unofficially solved. Best to say that this case is simply not yet solved, period.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2011, 08:53:48 AM
An article about the case appeared today:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Alberta+family+fights+justice+years+after+Kelly+Cook+murder/4673235/story.html

Kelly`s brother works at a Canadian Forces air base in Ontario. I can think of that surname at a base that`s familiar in connection with another story. Common surname, though.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2011, 09:01:20 AM
@SAP:

If you check out some of the other addresses for people on that list, you'll find some are residential addresses. I think it can be assumed that either they have small congregations that meet in the basement of a house (part-time preachers with regular day jobs) -- or perhaps they're the kind of churches that don't have their own buildings, but rent space on Sundays in public buildings like schools.

Also, some financial institutions run "agency" offices in smaller centres. These would not be a regular branch, but would offer limited services, sometimes within another business on the same premises. Could this be the case?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on April 26, 2011, 09:28:30 AM
Quote
Kelly`s brother works at a Canadian Forces air base in Ontario. I can think of that surname at a base that`s familiar in connection with another story. Common surname, though.


Are you positive that this is Kelly's brother, wellwell?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2011, 10:08:55 AM
No, it`s a common surname.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 26, 2011, 11:36:05 AM
I have some questions for those who have been following this case. Please bear with me. I have not gone through the 45 pages here.

1. Is it possible that Kelly's killer did know her/her family?
2. Could this be someone who would be a stranger to the community of Standard, but someone who knew the Cooks either directly or peripherally? Is it possible that this person "knew of" the Cooks and Kelly, even if he didn't know them directly?
3. It was stated that the Cook family moved from Montreal to Standard a few years before Kelly was taken. Where else did they live previously, if anywhere?
4. Where did Kelly's father work at the time of her disappearance and before -- employers names, etc.?
5. The idea of a traveller has come up. Could this person have been travelling on the Trans-Canada Highway, stopping in Standard en route to somewhere else? Which leads to...
6. Did Kelly's father ever serve in the military? If so, when and where? What bases near Standard were in operation at the time? I know that some bases bring in personnel for the summer months, and some towns have had problems reported in the media during those times.

There seem to be two paths here: either Kelly was chosen specifically, or this was completely random. The former is much more common. "Stranger" is a relative term.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on April 26, 2011, 07:34:22 PM
In that article published on April 26, 2011, in both the Calgary Herald and Edmonton Journal newspapers ("Alberta family fights for justice 30 years after Kelly Cook's murder"), I found it interesting that the Cooks were relatively new to Standard. It says they built their home in Standard in 1977 (and per the Calgary Herald 1986 article 'The Unsolved Puzzle', Kelly was a member of the Standard Figure Skating Club between 1977 and 1981). As per the June 5, 1981 edition of the Alberta Report (p. 35), 'The girl's uncle, Donald Cook, of Montreal, where Kelly and her family lived before moving to Alberta 10 years ago...' - this would indicate that the Cook family arrived in Alberta in 1971 but didn't settle in the Standard area until 1977.

I also found it rather disheartening that Kelly's sister Marnie didn't want her married surname revealed because she'd already received some pretty nasty phone calls from strangers.

And finally, RCMP Sgt. Patrick Webb says that the RCMP is no closer to solving the crime than they were 30 years ago. He says that they've gone through every piece of evidence, tip, and bit of information they came across. So despite what may have been speculated on this board (theories, etc.), that's currently the status of this crime - NOT  SOLVED. Obviously, the RCMP want to solve it, and I'll believe what they say about how the case is currently no closer to being solved than it was back in 1981. That's the official line, you might say.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Jason van Rassel on April 26, 2011, 09:59:45 PM
I have some questions for those who have been following this case. Please bear with me. I have not gone through the 45 pages here.

1. Is it possible that Kelly's killer did know her/her family?
2. Could this be someone who would be a stranger to the community of Standard, but someone who knew the Cooks either directly or peripherally? Is it possible that this person "knew of" the Cooks and Kelly, even if he didn't know them directly?
3. It was stated that the Cook family moved from Montreal to Standard a few years before Kelly was taken. Where else did they live previously, if anywhere?
4. Where did Kelly's father work at the time of her disappearance and before -- employers names, etc.?
5. The idea of a traveller has come up. Could this person have been travelling on the Trans-Canada Highway, stopping in Standard en route to somewhere else? Which leads to...
6. Did Kelly's father ever serve in the military? If so, when and where? What bases near Standard were in operation at the time? I know that some bases bring in personnel for the summer months, and some towns have had problems reported in the media during those times.

There seem to be two paths here: either Kelly was chosen specifically, or this was completely random. The former is much more common. "Stranger" is a relative term.

I have been a crime reporter for more than a decade, and I'm constantly hammering home the message that the majority of homicides are committed by people known to each other — however, all the known evidence in this case indicates (thought doesn't say absolutely) that Kelly was a target of opportunity rather than someone the killer zeroed in on because of some connection. Bear in mind, the culprit called another girl first and only got put onto Kelly because the other girl was too busy to accept the culprit's fictitious babysitting job.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on April 26, 2011, 10:06:30 PM
 ::)  ....what is the other girl isn't all that forth coming... or what if this killer already knew the other girl wouldn't be available.  As long as people accept that Kelly was "a substitute".... nobody will ever expand their ideas to other avenues.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: SAP on April 26, 2011, 10:39:06 PM
::)  ....what is the other girl isn't all that forth coming... or what if this killer already knew the other girl wouldn't be available.  As long as people accept that Kelly was "a substitute".... nobody will ever expand their ideas to other avenues.

I agree there Lost, and perhaps that is what Police at the time did, that is, stay tunnelvisioned. I'm not knocking the Police as they are only humans and humans are not infallible.


Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 27, 2011, 08:28:24 AM
Thank you AaronP, Jason, SAP and lostlinganer. I still haven't made it through the 45 pages!

It does seem to me that someone coming off the Trans-Canada Highway from the east could have headed back that way, going down highway 561 to Hussar, then south on Highway 56 and reconnecting with the #1.

Now back to the idea of a military connection. It was news to me that Kelly's brother is in the military. Often this is a career choice for people with family members who have already served. It's a shot in the dark, but I remember reading about a training base in Montreal, where Kelly's family had lived. That's why I wonder where Kelly's family lived before they moved to Standard. There were a lot more military bases in Alberta back then, and the Trans-Canada Highway would have been the route they used to transport troops.

Just the other day, I read about a murderer who used to travel back and forth between the air base in Moose Jaw and Calgary, where his girlfriend lived. This person was convicted of murdering another soldier who had ties to the Montreal area, and was from a miitary family. It made me wonder about the Cook family, and any links to the military. My thinking is not that the person in question is the same as the convicted murderer, but Kelly's killer could have followed the same route. CFB Suffield is a couple of hours east of Standard.

I learned yesterday about military relocation specialists, realtors who are government-approved for military relocations. Such people could have a reason to move around without suspicion, and would have access to keys for unoccupied properties. Some realtors act as custodians for insurance purposes for such properties.

Anyways, it's one possibility that I don't believe has been explored. It's made me realize how little is known about Kelly's family.

During my digging, I also discovered a 1992 murder connected to Cheadle, which isn't far from Standard. The victim lived west of Standard in Dalroy. Her killer, a "backyard mechanic", committed suicide in Kingston pen in 2005. He would have been too young to match the description of Kelly's killer, but it makes me wonder what goes on in those small towns in the area.

I`m also wondering if that traveller turned off at Hussar on his way to/from a visit to the Drumheller Institution.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 27, 2011, 09:30:24 AM
Does anyone know if the army reservists were on exercises in the Drumheller/Medicine Hat area during the spring of 1981? Say, in about March?

Also, did ice fishing on Chin (Stafford) Reservoir continue into April back in the late 1970s and early 1980s?

Further thoughts: CFB Chilliwack, CFB Namao, CFB Suffield -- all places that have crossed my mind in reading this thread.

More thoughts from this: http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3604.0

Swarthy-complexioned man in one of the cases, believed to have fled out west. Maybe he was already travelling between east and west.

Where was rapist Harvey Andres at the time of Kelly Cook's disappearance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Heights,_Saskatoon
http://www.insideprison.com/edmonton-institution.asp
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=6baa9138-66f9-47ac-aa9a-5c4811754b3e
http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/case-dossier/cms-sgd/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=30622

With the staying of those charges, we'll never know the details of all the other crimes he committed, but never faced up to in court. Could Kelly Cook have been his victim?

I found this vague reference:

"32-year-old Harvey Andres was ... On one occasion, a middle-aged mother and her 22-year-old daughter were.." on a site, which has now been altered. I believe that had something to do with a mother and daughter being violently assaulted in their home, which was then set ablaze. I believe that occurred around the time of Kelly Cook's disappearance.

One more that was in the Calgary area:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/09/21/Fisher_Milgaard20050921.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Milgaard#Larry_Fisher:_The_Real_Killer

Fisher had worked construction. He was arrested on a rape charge on March 31, 1980, and sentenced on June 11, 1981. Was he free in the meantime?

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/story.html?id=e577bab1-4bca-4e21-b2c5-5e6a8db63098

Bringing this thread here: http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=799.msg4187#msg4187
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on April 29, 2011, 12:46:29 AM
Does anyone know if the army reservists were on exercises in the Drumheller/Medicine Hat area during the spring of 1981? Say, in about March?

Also, did ice fishing on Chin (Stafford) Reservoir continue into April back in the late 1970s and early 1980s?

Further thoughts: CFB Chilliwack, CFB Namao, CFB Suffield -- all places that have crossed my mind in reading this thread.

More thoughts from this: http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3604.0

Swarthy-complexioned man in one of the cases, believed to have fled out west. Maybe he was already travelling between east and west.

Where was rapist Harvey Andres at the time of Kelly Cook's disappearance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Heights,_Saskatoon
http://www.insideprison.com/edmonton-institution.asp
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=6baa9138-66f9-47ac-aa9a-5c4811754b3e
http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/case-dossier/cms-sgd/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=30622

With the staying of those charges, we'll never know the details of all the other crimes he committed, but never faced up to in court. Could Kelly Cook have been his victim?

I found this vague reference:

"32-year-old Harvey Andres was ... On one occasion, a middle-aged mother and her 22-year-old daughter were.." on a site, which has now been altered. I believe that had something to do with a mother and daughter being violently assaulted in their home, which was then set ablaze. I believe that occurred around the time of Kelly Cook's disappearance.

You've done some nice research, but Andres isn't "our" man.  He was arrested April 19, 1981...3 days prior to Kelly's disappearance.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_nNkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=an4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1030,1591578&dq=harvey+andres&hl=en
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on April 29, 2011, 09:19:53 AM
Thanks. I was wondering if he had escaped, as he was known to do. I`m still wondering about colleagues of his, who were not named.

I`m updating this to show that he didn`t stay in custody for long after his 1981 arrest, either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canarama_Mall_Shootout

I suppose it`s possible he`ll get out of jail legally some day, if he studies hard enough:

http://www.justicebehindthewalls.net/resources/west_coast/may_aug_02.pdf
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on May 10, 2011, 09:24:29 PM
Hi everyone;
With the site down for days, I was doing a lot of interesting reading etc. which I wouldn't ordinarily have time for.  I ended up watching a long documentary on Global TV about the murder of Karon Slover in the state of Illinois.

From the beginning of this program to the end, all I could think of was Kelly.  It made me realize how much more determined some police are south of the border.  There was one police detective who was like a dog with a bone.  When the case was put on the shelf with 2 POI but no way to prove it, this tenacious detective would wait for the opportunity and time to dig into the file again.... and again.... and again.  A guess what, he solved it.  It was so like Kelly's case in my mind.  So I wish the authorities looking at cold cases would view this documentary and start Kelly's investigation as close to "scratch" as is necessary.  I bet they could really narrow down the possible location of where she was killed, or else where her killer came from.  I will see if I can find that documentary online and put up a link here.  But seriously, I think with the advances in DNA and investigative techniques, Kelly's case was .... and probably still is solvable.
Here's the story if you want to read it, but I haven't read it ... only watched it on television Saturday night; so I don't know how it will compare or progress, but I know the documentary was excellent... couldn't take my eyes off it long enough to go fetch a coffee.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/mbb204_karyn_slover/1_index.html
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on May 12, 2011, 10:22:57 AM
Here's the description again:

http://www.globallethbridge.com/world/story.html?id=4675017

"Abrupt egotistical manner" was underlined in the original, along with "barrel chested", "face tanned", and "company crests or badges". They also made it clear that this was not an attractive person, who had a round and very weatherbeaten face and hands. The "abrupt egotistical manner" might be the most revealing clue, if that person still happens to be hanging around in the area. People remember jerks.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 06, 2011, 12:48:21 PM
Does anyone know what happened with the weapon found in the Chin Reservoir in 2001?

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=445.0

I find it quite interesting that a drop in the water level made this discovery possible. Those who are familiar with irrigation practices in the area likely never expected the water levels to change so dramatically. Some area residents have family histories dating back to the advent of this irrigation system. Water diversion at work?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on June 06, 2011, 03:09:01 PM
It is amazing how the progression on threads can cause our thoughts to go back and forth in a manner which makes us focus on new ideas, then ultimately go back to the main ideas of the beginning theories.

I am referring to the idea of an attractive young publicized figure skater being the original target.  While that is not necessarily so, I can't help but admit that "well" has brought my thoughts back to the "relevance" of the initial description of the main POI.

Quote
"Abrupt egotistical manner" was underlined in the original, along with "barrel chested", "face tanned", and "company crests or badges".

company crests or badges  are not exclusive to employees of companies that provide jackets, shirts and logos;  but I do feel from years of observation, logos etc. are very much a hobby.... especially to those involved in sports ..... such as those who hang out at hockey arenas and always reading the sport page of the newspaper, but little else in the paper.

Ergo; I can't help but wonder how much police focused on the logos~  were they actually "company"?  Maybe this logo thing in itself is the key??!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 07, 2011, 09:18:55 AM
@lostlinganer:

I have been wondering about that original description of the POI. What is the ethnic origin of the POI? There was mention of an irrigation company. My thoughts have led me in the direction of the Chin Reservoir, irrigation, and the settlers who were well acquainted with irrigation in that area. The photo in the other thread sent me on this path. There's something about the POI's chin, jaw and nose that is quite distinctive.

Maybe the Hussar in this story is more than it appears, too.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 09, 2011, 11:58:26 AM
'Alberta family fights for justice 30 years after Kelly Cook's murder'
 
By Valerie Fortney, Calgary Herald, April 26, 2011
 
 
Looking back over the past three decades of her life, Marnie Cook counts many blessings: three healthy children, a happy marriage and loving parents who "did an amazing job" to ensure "I had a normal teenage life, going to parties and having boyfriends."

For her parents, Marion and Walter Cook, such a quotidian balancing act was a superhuman accomplishment.
This week 30 years ago, the couple was thrust into the national spotlight when their eldest child, 15-year-old daughter Kelly, was abducted after answering a call for babysitting.

The Cooks, residents of Standard, a village 70 kilometres east of Calgary, willingly subjected themselves to media interviews, appealing to the abductor to release their daughter, and hoping that if Kelly were still alive, she would see they were fighting for her.

On the 10th and 20th anniversaries of Kelly's abduction -her body was found in June 1981 -the Cooks, looking more weary with the passing years, continued to speak out in the hopes her killer would be found and brought to justice.

In December 2007, Walter succumbed to cancer at age 70.

Marnie Cook, who stayed in the background all those years with her younger brother Heath, has since taken up the torch for her family.

"Mom very much wants it in the public's eye, but she's tired," says the 43-year-old Cook, who asks that I don't use her married name, after one TV interview earlier this year resulted in "not so pleasant" phone calls from strangers.

"I want to do this for them, I know how important this was to my dad."

Talking to Cook on Monday, I experience a flood of memories about the fresh-faced teen and the murder case that shook much of southern Alberta. On April 18, 1981, a friend of Kelly's received a phone call from a man who called himself Bill Christensen, looking for a babysitter. She was busy, so she gave him the number for her friend Kelly.

The man called Kelly on the morning of April 22; after checking with her mother, Kelly said yes.
Her school friends would later remember asking at school if any of them knew Bill Christensen -a common last name in those parts.

That evening, a car pulled up in front of the Cook family home; Kelly jumped in the car, with the understanding she'd call her mom when she arrived at the man's home. The call never came.

Within hours, Standard residents pulled together along with those from nearby communities. More than 600 people, assisted by 40 RCMP officers, searching for Kelly.

It would be two long months before a teen riding his motorbike came upon the body of a girl in an irrigation canal near Taber.

She was rope-bound but fullyclothed, her body weighted down with concrete blocks. She had not been sexually assaulted, police would later find, making the case an even more unusual one of stranger abduction.

Marnie Cook remembers the time leading up to and surrounding Kelly's death as though it happened yesterday.

The family, originally from Montreal, had been in Standard for three years. Walter worked in the oil and gas industry as a plant operator, happy to raise his three kids far from the problems of the big city.

"Kelly was an outgoing, fun teenager who got good grades at school and loved figure skating," recalls Cook, who was 12 years old when her sister went missing. "We were sisters, but we were just getting to that place where we were becoming good friends. I was so looking forward to that."

Such a reasonable expectation was snuffed out by a man whose name Cook doesn't know, whose face she can only guess about from police sketches at the time of Kelly's disappearance.

"I lost a sister, my parents lost a daughter, my kids never got to know their aunt," she says.

Her father died before his greatest wish in life could come true: the arrest of the man responsible for killing his eldest child.

"None of us ever dreamed we'd still be talking about it 30 years later, that her murder would still be unsolved."

Despite a $120,000 reward (still sitting in a bank account under the trust of the village) and decades of work, Sgt. Patrick Webb acknowledges the RCMP is no closer to solving this perplexing case 30 years on.

"We haven't put it to bed yet," says Webb, regional spokesman for RCMP, of the cold case that has seen several officers involved over the years and a handful of persons of interest, but no suspects.

"We're at that point where we've gone through every piece of evidence, tip, bit of information."

He doesn't rule out a break, though, in the form of new technology pointing its way to the killer, and welcomes the opportunity to speak about it on significant anniversaries such as this.

"We believe that someone has information, and that they'll eventually come forward."

Marnie Cook hasn't given up hope, nor has her 69-year-old mother, Marion, who still lives in the home she and Walter built in Standard back in 1977; nor has her brother, 42-year-old Heath, who today is in the Canadian Forces' air division, stationed in Ontario.

"I want to do it for my parents," she says, adding there is one thing she is at peace with today.

"My daughter said to me after my dad died, 'Well, Mom, he has the answers to all the questions now.' He was a terrific father, and I got to have him for more than 25 years longer than Kelly did -I'm sharing him with her now.”

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: scotsquine on June 09, 2011, 12:29:49 PM
I think I read in this thread a while ago details of Terry Arnolds life.  His young years, where he lived, when, etc.  Does anyone know where I could find this information?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: debbiec on June 09, 2011, 12:59:10 PM
You will find information at the links below scots.


http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3056.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=3056.0)

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2167.0 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2167.0)

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4263.msg50410#msg50410 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4263.msg50410#msg50410)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 09, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
There isn't much support for anyone looking into Terry Arnold for any crime but most of the information on him was originally published in a series of articles co-authored by reporters from the Vancouver Sun and the Calgary Herald. The collection of articles can be found at-

http://mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm (http://mindytran.com/Arnold%20news%20stories.htm)

Interesting choice of words in the most recent article above- rope bound, not tied.  Fully clothed and "wrapped", not tied, with rope was T. Arnold's description of how he left her. Ropes tied to blocks only, not to Kelly.

Quote
She was rope-bound but fullyclothed, her body weighted down with concrete blocks. She had not been sexually assaulted, police would later find, making the case an even more unusual one of stranger abduction.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 09, 2011, 01:32:17 PM
from wellwell
Quote
The photo in the other thread sent me on this path. There's something about the POI's chin, jaw and nose that is quite distinctive.

The sketch released by the Police does show someone with a fairly distinctive appearance. Just for interest sake, I am leaving a picture comparison of T. Arnold from his younger years with a minor alteration to remove his moustache and darken his glasses.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 09, 2011, 01:41:22 PM
As the description given was of an older man that Arnold, he has virtually been ruled out by way of the age discrepancy. If it were Arnold that the sketch was based on, the sketch to photo comparison of an aged T.Arnold is also quite interesting.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: scotsquine on June 09, 2011, 01:48:51 PM
Thanks.  Does anyone know how old he would have been and where he lived around 1962.  Also how old were his siblings then?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 10, 2011, 08:03:53 AM
Interesting choice of words in the most recent article above- rope bound, not tied.  Fully clothed and "wrapped", not tied, with rope was T. Arnold's description of how he left her. Ropes tied to blocks only, not to Kelly.

Quote
She was rope-bound but fullyclothed, her body weighted down with concrete blocks. She had not been sexually assaulted, police would later find, making the case an even more unusual one of stranger abduction.




Even back in 1981, police revealed that Kelly's body had been bound at the hands and feet with ropes - check out the July 1981 edition of the 'Alberta Report' article that I cited in an earlier posting. The fact that Mr. Arnold botched this most obvious - and publicly known - fact surrounding Kelly Cook's demise is only yet further proof that he didn't do it. Had he been the real killer, he would have surely known about her body itself being rope-bound.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Maybe her body was found rope bound and this was something the police held back at the time as only the killer would know those exact details? Weeds out people claiming stuff that can just as easily be found in publicly available news reports.

Quote
Had he been the real killer, he would have surely known about her body itself being rope-bound
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on June 10, 2011, 11:39:48 AM
Quote


Even back in 1981, police revealed that Kelly's body had been bound at the hands and feet with ropes - check out the July 1981 edition of the 'Alberta Report' article that I cited in an earlier posting. The fact that Mr. Arnold botched this most obvious - and publicly known - fact surrounding Kelly Cook's demise is only yet further proof that he didn't do it. Had he been the real killer, he would have surely known about her body itself being rope-bound.



In addition to AaronP's comment(s), I would also like to add this key piece of information to keep in mind.  The suspect's/POI physical description has never wavered from April, 1981.  He is described as being 'swarthy'; as mentioned before in this thread, the definition of 'swarthy' means someone having a naturally darker skinned complexion, not affected by elements (sun/wind/snow).  This may or may not mean he was a caucasian male, but bear in mind many caucasian's can have a naturally "darker" complexion.  For example, a guy I used to work with is of strong Italian decent and he fits the defintion of "swarthy" perfectly.  He is caucasian, but has a brown tone to his skin even in the dead of winter.  He also has the dark hair, dark eyes, dark eyebrows...think of a Burt Reynolds/Sean Connery (in his 007 days)/Johnny Depp type look to put the word swarthy into context.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 10, 2011, 12:22:30 PM
I have no problem with anyone looking for and researching other suspects, you are welcome to do so, hope you will. My side needs no further explanation, I know its a tough sell but not much I can do about it. I recounted what I was told, I'm not personally convinced that Terry Arnold can be ruled out by what I have seen. There may be other explanations for everything other than what I can surmise, maybe the ropes even slipped down due to the water current and the decomposition process? Maybe the way Kelly was left wasn't the way she was eventually found? I don't know, I'm not back tracking or trying to change any part of my story as some have insinuated before, just saying there could be other explanations for everything that might not appear to fit now if looked at in other ways. The media is no longer saying that Kelly was found tied at the hands and feet, just "rope bound". Is that accidental or deliberate wording? Jason van Rassel is a reporter for the Calgary Herald, the source of the latest news article. Jason has been on this site and has even commented on this case. Jason knows what is being said on here about Terry Arnold confessing but did not write the latest article on Kelly. it can be questioned if information from this discussion had been relayed from Jason to the writer of the latest article. Why not say tied at the hand as and feet as before? Why just say "rope bound" now?
 
Don't worry I'm not rekindling the round and round we go again, and I have no intentions of carrying on with this, just wanted to finish off my obligations by leaving the pictures of Terry Arnold as a matter of interest. Hope you will carry on and do the same with your other suspects too. 
all the best
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: rainstorm on June 10, 2011, 04:49:44 PM
Hello to all, I have a strong interest in this. I was born in Taber and moved from there I came back to the Lethbridge area and have been here for 3 years now. Anyways I grew up hearing about Kelly and the dangers of babysitting. I got my certificate in 89 when I turned 12. My friends and i Began a babysitting club putting up posters and such. for some reason I got the job one day. my first babysitting job I was so excited. I think this was a few sitting jobs in for her. This lady was going to the bar so at 3amish she came home paid me and said her"friend" a male was going to drive me home. I was just anxious to go home . so i went. I told him to turn left and he turned right. I began to get uneasy and my brain was going nuts. I told him this is the wrong way. he laughed made a u turn and we went in the direction to my house. He was yapping away and my mind was still panic filled. He drove a wee bit past the turn to my neighborhood which lead to a lake. finally on my street i decided to pretend to live a wee bit more down the street. In my mind i thought just in case he ment harm to me or something.to this day I never told my mother and now realize that the lady I babysat for picked up this guy at the bar.

What pisses me off now is a lady who was in her 20s intrusting me to watch her little boy allows me a 12 year old kid to go with a stranger who she didn't know.

I remember when this guy turned the wrong way the first time i was searching for something to defend myself with. I believe that Kelly would have done the same. she would have probably had a purse with a pen or something this was my weapon I carefully pulled out and hid up my sleeve.

So I think this man who had her would be pretty hurting unit after she fought him and left some kind of markings on him. I would think that him he goes to chin lake and then what ever direction from there he would need gas. I would think someone would recognize him given the description of him maybe injured. She would have fought with all she had.

Was there ever any statement from the barmaid that served and played pool with him at the bar? Where is she now?
If he was the guy who went to the funeral home, perhaps he dropped something some where where he had her. or did leave something on her body and was wondering if it was on her, still. or if it was found.

If the skater friend was contacted before Kelly was to sit for the "bill freak" did they get that call traced?

I am not sure about this Warner connection/rumor???? I have been to the bar several times. I hang out with people who grew up in this area.( I am south east of Lethbridge so very near chin lake and Warner Newdayton. No ones mentioned a murder of the ken guy or a double homicide mentioned earlier post.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on June 10, 2011, 08:08:40 PM
rainstorm, it was great reading your post.  It gave me a feeling of being there.... what Kelly faced, and what you could have faced.  You are so true in your feelings on this.  I do hope you keep posting.  You seem to be a well informed, no-fooling-around person.  Please do keep your ears and eyes open with regards to Kelly.  There's no harm in bringing up the topic whenever you can.  One can't catch a fish without fishing.  Thank you girl! ;)
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 12, 2011, 04:52:58 PM
Kelly's dad was in the oil and gas industry. Workers at that plant would definately have company logo's on their clothing.
Swarthy complexion and muscular could mean someone who worked outside (checking on oil and gas lines?)
Is it possible that someone had a grudge against Kelly's Dad? I mean he was a plant foreman, and he was new to Standard and area, and unfortunately during that time period, if you said that you were from Montreal, (even with an English name such as Cook), they would still be considered as  outsiders and Quebecers.  That was definately not a plus to some westerners at that time. And to be a plant foreman to boot! Some bigotry, resentment and jealousy could arise in his workplace,( I wonder!) Just a thought that I would throw in  here.

PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: D1 on June 12, 2011, 07:07:30 PM
re: RAINSTORM
Quote
Was there ever any statement from the barmaid that served and played pool with him at the bar? Where is she now?
If he was the guy who went to the funeral home, perhaps he dropped something some where where he had her. or did leave something on her body and was wondering if it was on her, still. or if it was found.

THE TIME HAS COME FOR THE CITIZENS OF STANDARD TO ASK THE QUESTIONS THEMSELVES!

There were other witnesses besides the ones mentioned. Some have died already. If anyone really wants to know, just go ask the remaining witnesses yourselves before it's too late. There are pictures of at least one previously unidentified suspect available to show them. If Terry Arnold was involved, the RCMP may actually be an obstructionist element to ever finding the truth about this murder. (check Barb Stoppel, Denise Laperriere, etc.. )  Don't leave it all to the RCMP, the writing is on the wall!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 12, 2011, 10:03:33 PM
This link is a story from April 27, 1981 when Kelly was first missing in the Leader Post says the car was possibly an off white 1975 North American car.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rYZVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jT8NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3495,3425905&dq=kelly+cook+standard+alberta&hl=en

A documentary made for TV by John Mitchell the following year called "Who Killed Kelly Cook" aired on CFAC-TV on Monday Oct 5, 1982. I wonder if it would still be possible to view this documentary.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WHdkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h34NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2810,1466993&dq=kelly+cook+standard+alberta&hl=en
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on June 13, 2011, 01:27:40 AM
good find Des!  would be nice if all articles about Kelly were here... somebody from Standard must have saved them.  You would think a person could get use to this "story"... but never!!!!  Like all the others, when such a horrible event has happened.... especially unsolved! each article you read about it makes you want/wish you could find the animal who did this... and rip his eyes and heart out with your bare hands.  >:( >:(

RIP Kelly girl... :'(  others will carry on for you; you will not be forgotten.  Hopefully, Canadians will read here from time to time, and realize how important it is to double check who will be around your children.  ...and remind children that they have to view everybody they don't know, or don't know well, with cauious eyes.  Too bad it has to be that way, but it seems there are far too many humans animals out there for us to assume we are safe.   .... and that goes double regarding our young!

If nothing else ever comes of this, keeping young baby sitters safe because of knowing what happened to poor Kelly, then maybe her young soul will be happy.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 17, 2011, 08:44:20 PM
@CCF: Interesting that you brought up Burt Reynolds as an example of "swarthy". He's part Cherokee.

Being from Montreal, I'm wondering if the Cooks had any connections to First Nations communities around there?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 18, 2011, 05:31:31 PM
This link is a story from April 27, 1981 when Kelly was first missing in the Leader Post says the car was possibly an off white 1975 North American car.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rYZVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jT8NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3495,3425905&dq=kelly+cook+standard+alberta&hl=en

A documentary made for TV by John Mitchell the following year called "Who Killed Kelly Cook" aired on CFAC-TV on Monday Oct 5, 1982. I wonder if it would still be possible to view this documentary.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WHdkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h34NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2810,1466993&dq=kelly+cook+standard+alberta&hl=en

Actually, the documentary 'Who Killed Kelly Cook' aired in October 1981, not 1982. It aired slightly less than 6 months after the abduction, in an attempt to generate fresh leads. It was a half-hour long. I remember watching it, though I was quite young at the time. It would be nice if this documentary was posted somewhere on the Internet. I did a search, including youtube, but no luck. I recall the documentary did generate quite a few tips to police, but obviously those tips weren't enough, and thus this crime is still unsolved.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 18, 2011, 07:33:34 PM
Thank you for the correction, I looked at page one of that newspaper, indeed, Oct 1981.

Do you remember any details about the program?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 19, 2011, 10:18:42 AM
Thank you for the correction, I looked at page one of that newspaper, indeed, Oct 1981.

Do you remember any details about the program?


I remember the following about the documentary 'Who Killed Kelly Cook':

1) The crime was recreated, although you never once saw the killer's face or Kelly's face - just their backs, legs, feet, etc. Thus you heard the killer making the phone call, saw the car pull up in front of Kelly's house, and saw Kelly leave the house and get into the car. Once again, you saw other people's faces, but not Kelly's or the killer. So when Kelly left her house and got into the car, you only saw her (the actress) from the waist down. I do recall that she was wearing jeans, though.

2) I remember, though I was young at the time, that when the documentary recreated the original phone call to the intended target, a 17-year-old girl on April 18, 1981, the actress who portrayed this girl was truly gorgeous! A blonde bombshell! Obviously not the actual girl who was phoned, of course.

3) The crime was recreated so that people would perhaps remember something and phone in with tips. I don't think there were any commercials during that half-hour.

4) No particular person (including Terry Arnold) was named as a suspect. Just the composite description and picture were discussed/displayed.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 19, 2011, 01:08:48 PM
Thank you AaronP,

I was thinking about TA as a suspect and thought I would post the composite sketch of TA beside the composite of Kelly Cook's killer. I am not sure if that was already done on this thread so I'll look. But my memory of both sketches is hard for me to see them being the same

But I searched for "Barbara Stoppel Terry Arnold to see if I could find the composite easier than rifling through my computer files and I came across this article posted on Manitoba Justice website. I will only post the link and this opening paragraph:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/publications/sophonow/arnold/index.html

Quote
Before the arrest of Thomas Sophonow, Terry Arnold was for a time a suspect. There are a number of ways in which he was linked to Barbara Stoppel. It is not without significance that he went to the St. Boniface Hospital on the 28th of December, 1981 to enquire as to Barbara's condition. At that time, he met Mrs. Stoppel. He told her that he was a truck driver, that he had frequented the Ideal Donut Shop and had come to know Barbara.

What is significant is it shows that TA did try to see his victim after she was recovered in the donut shop. Something similar happened in Kelly Cook's case, when her remains were recovered and in the Calgary funeral home, someone came to see her remains. He was refused. He was younger than the age given for Kelly's suspect but it is also true that TA looked older than his years, but I believe he was also skinnier than the composite in Kelly's case.

Terry Arnold went to see Barbara Stoppel in the hospital in Winnipeg, but six months after the funeral home incident in Calgary.

TA was also stalking Barbara. There is an element of stalking in Kelly's case too.

Both Kelly and Barbara were murdered during a religious holiday times, Easter 1981 and Christmas 1981.

TA wore glasses - the composite in Kelly's case shows glasses, which may have been sunglasses. The guy seen in Standard, I think, wore sunglasses on top of his head. Were they prescription sunglasses or were they off the shelf? I think TA needed his glasses but not sure about when he was 18 or so.

What would TA be doing in Standard area around Easter 1981? Perhaps visiting relatives for the holidays? Working? Not much is known about TA's life in 1981. He was a late teenager who worked in a midway in carnivals.

Right now I am open to the idea TA was involved in Kelly's murder due to the reasons above. Even if that means there were at least two people involved in Kelly's murder. It is not unheard of in the past.

The guy in Standard was also cocky. I am going to put some of the characteristics of the composite sketch suspect into point form and see if they might match what is known of TA's character/personality.

I am very curious if the people who saw the phone caller and the guy who played pool in the hotel could see TAs photo. Or, if there's video of TA out there, just to hear his voice. I wonder what results would come of that? I agree it would be a good idea to see if the people who witnessed the man come into the funeral home in Calgary looked like TA.

Hopefully someone who knew Kelly would know who to show the photo to, and I will look to see if there is any video of TA out there on the Net.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 19, 2011, 05:52:12 PM
What is significant is it shows that TA did try to see his victim after she was recovered in the donut shop. Something similar happened in Kelly Cook's case, when her remains were recovered and in the Calgary funeral home, someone came to see her remains. He was refused. He was younger than the age given for Kelly's suspect but it is also true that TA looked older than his years, but I believe he was also skinnier than the composite in Kelly's case.

TA wore glasses - the composite in Kelly's case shows glasses, which may have been sunglasses. The guy seen in Standard, I think, wore sunglasses on top of his head. Were they prescription sunglasses or were they off the shelf? I think TA needed his glasses but not sure about when he was 18 or so.

The guy in Standard was also cocky. I am going to put some of the characteristics of the composite sketch suspect into point form and see if they might match what is known of TA's character/personality.



Actually, the police description of the man who visited the Calgary funeral home on July 2, 1981, was in the age range of the composite description of the suspect. Mid 30s and up. Check out an April 1982 article in the Calgary Herald that I posted on this site earlier - it contains the description.

Lots of men wear sunglasses. You can't possibly point the finger at someone just because he wore sunglasses. Lots of men are also cocky and have no interest in attending charm school. Can't pin a crime on a guy just because he fits that profile because there are lots of other guys out there who are the same.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 19, 2011, 06:22:56 PM
I am not trying to pin the crime on anyone. I apologize if my post sounds accusatory. I just thought since TA was brought up again it was worth looking at the difference in the composites, except in my attempting to show the differences, I found another similarity, the visiting, which I haven't read in any other cases anywhere to my memory.

It seems like a behavioural thing, or maybe an obsessional thing. Maybe it's a kind of way to inject into the investigation or it's to see if the person is really dead, I don't know. But, it seems a big enough aspect of Kelly's case to bring attention to that in the newspapers and it was a big enough thing in Barbara Stoppel's case, for Manitoba justice to say it was no small matter TA visited the hospital.

Thanks AaronP for bringing up your more recent post about the visitor being in the same age range. I will hunt for the post. Was the visitor aged 25-35 and the suspect from Standard was 35-45? Which is a 20 year spread if this is correct. The only way this could make sense for TA to have been involved in Kelly's murder is if there was another person involved in Kelly's murder as well.

Do the similarities in this case and Barbara Stoppel's case (unsolved until TA died) matter and if they do, what do the similarities mean?

Kelly's case is very unusual overall, in the phone calls and the killer hanging around a small town and not be identifiable by anyone. I do think it was hard for Kelly's killer to accept her body was recovered and that may be why he went to the funeral home. If that's the case it might mean Kelly was never meant to be found and the killer knew the reservoir he buried her in very well.

It has been said here both that the reservoir was not unusually low and I've read it was unusually low. Plus the killer used cinder blocks to weigh her down. (where would someone find cinder blocks - did the killer have them in his trunk already and did he plan this murder very well?)

If the reservoir was not unusually low for Kelly to be recovered and he dropped her off the bridge with cinder blocks, or rowed her to the middle, maybe he didn't know the reservoir very well. The early articles state that Kelly was found in a drainage canal, or opening. I am not sure what that means but it might mean she did move underwater or was left close to the shore, not in the middle. I'm just not sure, the old information newly come to light brings more questions.

Some day, some one will have information that will lead police to the killer. The killer, IMO, fixated on one (possibly beautiful) figure skater and could not get her into his car and he followed up with Kelly. Maybe this was his only chance, even though he had hung around that town quite a bit before. He was seen, talked to people on the phone, even the girl's school principal. Maybe it was his only chance to do what he had planned.

Another opinion of mine is the killer was not local, he was there for another reason, he fixated, he planned and he left Standard and likely never returned. But he has killed other teens and women.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 19, 2011, 07:49:08 PM
Check the past postings, and you can see a description of the man who made the phone call to Kelly (composite description) and the description of the man who visited the Calgary funeral home on July 2, 1981, asking to see Kelly's body. In both cases, these are descriptions provided by police.

The Calgary Herald was an afternoon newspaper in 1981. Thus if the funeral home mentioned in the July 2 obituary section was indeed the funeral home at which Kelly's body was located that evening, the visitor would surely have to have been in the relatively near vicinity to pay an evening visit. But keep in mind police have never said that person was definitively the killer. It could just as easily have been some thrill seeker who saw the obit notice and decided to pay a visit driven by nothing more than morbid curiosity.

I've never read that the Chin Lakes reservoir was unusually low in June 1981, just that the water level had dropped considerably. I don't know the area, but such a drop could have been normal, as the demand for irrigation water would have been increasing as the crops grew.

A prior news posting I placed on this site stated that Kelly's body was dumped several yards from shore (I'm assuming by April 1981 standards) and about 200 yards from the highway bridge. It couldn't possibly have been dumped over the side of the bridge.

It's unlikely the killer was local. I say that because of a previous posting placed by a Standard resident who said that nobody local (Standard, Hussar) was ever a suspect in this case. There's also no definitive proof that Kelly's killer was responsible for other murders - a theory, but no hard data to confirm it as a fact.

Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 19, 2011, 08:30:35 PM
Oh, okay. We're just posting facts. Gotcha!
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 20, 2011, 12:01:33 PM
Oh, okay. We're just posting facts. Gotcha!

There's nothing wrong with posting theories, of course. But theories should ideally be based on - and can be contradicted by - cold hard facts. If I want to postulate that the moon is made of green cheese, that's a theory, but I can hardly expect everyone to believe it unless I can prove it through demonstrable, preferably quantifiable, data. Similarly, if anyone wants to point the finger at a particular person (criminal or otherwise) as being the true culprit in the Kelly Cook case... well, speculation is fine, but without solid factual data to support the argument, not everyone will buy in to the theory proposed. And there's nothing wrong with that!

Theories are great in that they represent innovation and thinking outside the box. But by the same token, to be accepted, they have to have true verifiable merit.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 20, 2011, 12:08:13 PM
I posted the article about a weapon being found in the same reservoir, twenty years after Kelly Cook's murder. Initially, it was thought to be connected to a more recent double murder. The water had dropped to unusually low levels at that time.

As for the location of Kelly's body in the irrigation reservoir, the water levels would rise as water is stored from spring runoff, and drop as it is sent down canals further downstream to farms that need it. Surely suction would move things around.

During periods of drought, water levels would be low, which  could be why the weapon turned up. Was it connected to Kelly's case, or not? Drought documented here:

http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/display-afficher.do?id=1187379611540&lang=eng

Why the reservoir?

http://www.pinchercreekecho.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=1957413
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2699.0
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=taber&hl=en&ll=49.704944,-112.601624&spn=0.559519,1.766052&gl=ca&z=9 (Chin Lakes to the right of Coaldale)

Is there a connection? From what I understand, Peter Sopow was stationed in Fort MacLeod.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 20, 2011, 02:10:55 PM
I did a little more research on. the Chin Reservoir. It's part of the St. Mary irrigation system.

http://www.gowalleye.com/sa-chin.htm
http://www.cda.ca/proceedings%20datafiles/1995/1995-06-02.pdf (p.3)

In 1981, the St. Mary Dam was undergoing repairs of its chutes. Could Kelly's killer have been employed on the project? Would that explain the logos/badges on his clothes? Repairs to the dam were ongoing in 1977, 1981, 1983 and 1991. By 1993, further work began. Someone could have been circulating in and out of the nearby communities as a worker on those projects without raising an eyebrow. Why Standard, though?

In answer to my own question:

http://www.wid.net/today.html

Same workers travelling around the province? Some other possibilities for workers who wouldn't be noticed as strangers: custom seeding operators, people delivering grain, oil and gas workers (seismic crews,  landmen), people attending livestock auctions in Strathmore, railway workers, workers on propane delivery routes,water truck drivers, fertilizer truck drivers?

Where did Kelly's father Walter work, and for whom? There's a nitrogen plant in Carseland. Carseland also has a dam/weir, completed in the early 1970s. Is this another link to the irrigation idea?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: CCF on June 20, 2011, 03:22:11 PM
I did a little more research on. the Chin Reservoir. It's part of the St. Mary irrigation system.

http://www.gowalleye.com/sa-chin.htm
http://www.cda.ca/proceedings%20datafiles/1995/1995-06-02.pdf (p.3)

In 1981, the St. Mary Dam was undergoing repairs of its chutes. Could Kelly's killer have been employed on the project? Would that explain the logos/badges on his clothes? Repairs to the dam were ongoing in 1977, 1981, 1983 and 1991. By 1993, further work began. Someone could have been circulating in and out of the nearby communities as a worker on those projects without raising an eyebrow. Why Standard, though?

In answer to my own question:

http://www.wid.net/today.html

Same workers travelling around the province? Some other possibilities for workers who wouldn't be noticed as strangers: custom seeding operators, people delivering grain, oil and gas workers (seismic crews,  landmen), people attending livestock auctions in Strathmore, railway workers, workers on propane delivery routes,water truck drivers, fertilizer truck drivers?

Where did Kelly's father Walter work, and for whom? There's a nitrogen plant in Carseland. Carseland also has a dam/weir, completed in the early 1970s. Is this another link to the irrigation idea?

The irrigation worker/repair worker is an excellent...and until now, unthought of angle.  Could explain the "familiarity" with Chin Lake and the logos/crests on the windbreaker.

As far as the rifle you mentioned is concerned, it was just pure coincidence and it was confirmed it was not linked to the double murder at Pincher Creek (I remember reading that in the Calgary Herald or Lethbridge Herald a few years back).  Kelly was not shot, but strangled so it can be ruled out in her case as well.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 20, 2011, 04:32:16 PM
Posting this, which I've mentioned before:

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2009/07/16/10152686-sun.html

His son killed a 26-year-old waitress in 1992 on a rural road. It occurred to me that she would have been the same age as Kelly, if Kelly had lived. Dilleen Hempel was killed by two shots. Was that weapon found?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 20, 2011, 05:38:18 PM
Oh, okay. We're just posting facts. Gotcha!

There's nothing wrong with posting theories, of course. But theories should ideally be based on - and can be contradicted by - cold hard facts. If I want to postulate that the moon is made of green cheese, that's a theory, but I can hardly expect everyone to believe it unless I can prove it through demonstrable, preferably quantifiable, data. Similarly, if anyone wants to point the finger at a particular person (criminal or otherwise) as being the true culprit in the Kelly Cook case... well, speculation is fine, but without solid factual data to support the argument, not everyone will buy in to the theory proposed. And there's nothing wrong with that!

Theories are great in that they represent innovation and thinking outside the box. But by the same token, to be accepted, they have to have true verifiable merit.


I agree and I make every effort to describe what I write as opinion, theory, "what if" or fact or link to other's opinions, theories or facts. Hopefully people haven't been thinking I think all the things I write are fact because that would be quite unfortunate.As many people have written here; we like to theorize, speculate and offer opinions to keep the cases alive. 
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 20, 2011, 07:08:07 PM
Thank you wellwell for your link, and your post.  Perhaps your view may bring a breath of fresh air to this mystery.

The way that I see it, it was about a 2 and a half hour drive from Standard to Chin Lake.

This was planned by an adult, and he came prepared with blocks and rope.

No sign of rape.

Fully clothed, weighted down. Tells me that this was an older man and had daughters of his own. (No rape involved and child fully clothed.)


If for the thrill, why  take the chance and drive this long distance?

Why not have it happen sooner rather than later?


So, what was his motive?? What did he gain?

Where was his thrill?

or was it revenge??


I  wonder about revenge!!

Did the village of Standard receive  irrigation which cut off his land?

Thus the killer didn't care which child he had taken?
All of this talk about the original baby sitter, who gave the name of Kelly etc. Perhaps it did not matter to him, perhaps he got the name of the first girl from a local newspaper, no one special to the killer's mind.

If he lost young cattle dying on the ground of thirst, and his other livestock were dying also, he might have decided to pick a young girl from the area, a human, to serve a loss that he did!!

Even though ranchers turn their cattle in for slaughter, they still take pride in how humane they treat them while in their care!!
As sick as he was, he murdered her by strangling, which if done well, can be in his sick mind , considered kind = he did not torture her, nor rape her.

I wonder wellwell, if Standard and area did receive irrigation - and surrounding areas did not?

Irrigation has always been a contention in Southern Alberta, and if his land was bypassed, and if he lost money, he might have had a crazy motive.


Just a thought. or to put it another way JMO

PS my father-in-law worked in the irrigation business for years, albeit around Strathmore and area, and there was allot of contention around that time period. Decisions were made by higher- ups of which owners of properties would receive water, and those that would be left to dry up.

This theory is worth considering. 

JB
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on June 20, 2011, 08:54:07 PM

well; your link http://www.wid.net/today.html is more than interesting.... especially the archives and links. Seems someone resigned every year back in that 80's timeframe.  What a huge project!  and quite a few people involved on every level.  There are a few pictures there two. 

In fact, there's not much that is not included if you look at the links.... all kinds of information and facts about Chin Lakes and surrounding area, in connection with this irrigation project.  Folks "in the know" from that neck of the woods should read all this stuff;  It might spark some relevant memories of the Chin Lakes Project and those involved in it. 

I wonder who had big influence regarding who was hired, whose equipment was employed, whose business/es were chosen to supply essentials, .... and if any "bad blood" was flowing!  Seems like that all would be likely given the magnitude of the Project, the area/s covered, and the amount of jobs attached.  .... and as jellybean pointed out .... wonder if any areas/farms had more influence than others when it came to water rations.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: wellwell on June 20, 2011, 10:28:42 PM
It sounds like the idea of "people first" is a new concept:

http://newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2011/22/c5379.html
http://www.albertawater.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84

Could Walter Cook's employment at a gas plant have been relevant to Kelly's disappearance? Gas plants are part of the water picture:

http://www.albertawatercouncil.ca/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Yd8tQfj6KM8%3D&tabid=89

Another possibility is sour gas activism, which is not unknown in Alberta.

I don't know if fracking was in the limelight back then, but it sure is now. Here's a story out of Rosebud, just north of Standard:

http://www.cochraneeagle.com/2011/05/rosebud-landowner-sues-over-alleged-well-contamination/

Given the irrigation district's Taber connection and the location of the Chin Reservoir, though, it seems more likely that if this is the angle, the person who took Kelly came from the south. The place where Kelly was found may have been symbolic in addition to concealing her remains.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 20, 2011, 10:54:13 PM
Could it be sour gas wells poisened his land and made his cattle sick (re any water pools that he had on his land to offer his cattle?)

jb
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 21, 2011, 08:32:24 PM
His car as described as an American model doesn't prove anything.  Many Canadians go across the border to purchase a vehicle as they are cheaper.
Southern Albertan's are closer to the border, and often take advantage of their geographic location to the US

Here's another thought - if the killer wanted the original baby sitter, he would have held off until she was available.
JB
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Annastaisha on June 22, 2011, 12:59:23 AM
When they refer to cars as being "American Model" dont they just mean Ford, Chev, Dodge etc as opposed to an import like Honda, Toyota, BMW ?
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: Desespere on June 22, 2011, 02:47:32 PM
When they refer to cars as being "American Model" dont they just mean Ford, Chev, Dodge etc as opposed to an import like Honda, Toyota, BMW ?

Yes, I believe that is what is referred to as an American or North American model. I hope if Kelly's murder were committed by someone from the area, irrigation or reservoir employee or farmer/rancher from the area, someone from that time might remember the described car and recognize the composite sketch. If he was working there as a non-resident worker, it will be much harder.

I still think it was someone who was working in that area or passed through there frequently at that time, and not someone from Standard. Maybe someone from the Reservoir area, but maybe not a permanent resident.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 22, 2011, 03:13:40 PM
The thing that perplexes me is that the original baby sitter was not available, so he picked up Kelly at her home with the ruse to babysit.
What was his motive? Why drive her in the car for  2 and a half hours to Chin Lake? Apparently there were no signs of sexual assault.
Should his motive had been to pick up a young girl etc. etc -- why leave her body 2 1/2 hours away - fully dressed, cement blocks with rope attached to weigh her down?  Usually bad people, will use young girls and dump them with little effort on their part.

PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: lostlinganer on June 22, 2011, 03:41:48 PM
.....gonna go out on a limb here ::) .... it's ok if I get jumped for off-tracking;  maybe, just maybe, at a public function sometime beforehand, or in a bar, coffee shop, whatever .... some jerk saw the figure skater on television news, newspaper, local poster or ad (or even just knew her by chance) and decided he was going to have her.  Just maybe, I'm saying here.... that the abductor was responsible to get this "figure skater",  ....maybe owed the jerk, and was afraid to tell him he couldn't get her....or the jerk had something  "big time" on the abductor .....abductor didn't let on he was picking up a substitute.  Just maybe, he hoped and/or assumed these figure skaters were all very similar, and the guy would be satisfied.  Just maybe, when he picked up poor little innocent Kelly .... he realized she was just an ordinary girl .... not especially glamorous or assuming to be such .... just a nice decent competent girl!  Just maybe he had no choice but to dispose of his mistake, and get out of the area.  ...Maybe even abduct another girl soon after to save himself from running forever?   (I wonder if there was another elsewhere not long after that!)

or maybe he did deliver her, and the jerk blew up,  and told him "this is not her; the deal's off!" ....then  maybe the jerk  killed them both, and dumped the abductor elsewhere .... or else the two went on their way together after Kelly was disposed of. 

Then I think of someone (whose identity was never described fully) going to the funeral parlor at a very odd time when others weren't there.  So if this guy was not the original abductor (or just someone nosy) it could be the "jerk" making sure this was the girl he turned down... that she was dead for sure, (as he had ordered) because she could identify him (and he had no way of knowing for sure the abductor/partner did the job).... just another lose theory.  However, we've run into further stretched situations where a girl was murdered, and strange plans of other sorts came out in the wash or got confessed.  I also had this thought in the very beginning.  Of course that's me; always thinking conspiracy.
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: jellybean on June 22, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
Everything is possible Lost, and you made some great points.  Do we know if this cold case is being actively worked upon by LE?

JB
Title: Re: Kelly Cook - 15 - Murdered - April 22, 1981 - Standard, AB - PART 1
Post by: AaronP on June 25, 2011, 05:39:26 PM

In response to some earlier posts, there’s a lot of farmland irrigated in southern Alberta. Worldwide, a good deal of water goes to crop production, and even more so in areas with light, unreliable precipitation, such as Alberta. Saying that the killer struck out at Standard in response to loss of irrigation water and dead and dying cattle is an interesting theory, but not a particularly plausible one. According to a Standard resident who posted on this thread, nobody local was ever a suspect in this case. Not once have police speculated on this as being a possible motive for the killing. Once again, theories are great, but with a complete lack of supporting evidence, I’ll personally choose not to believe this one. And let’s face it, committing this type of crime is no way to ensure a reversal of irrigation watering decisions.

It’s unlikely Walter Cook, Kelly’s father, and his employment at a fertilizer plant had anything to do with this crime. Kelly was not even the original target. Not to mention that as per an Alberta Report article from 1981 I cited earlier, the mayor of Standard at that time described the Cooks as a clean-living family. Not mafia types, in other words.

As for holding off on the original target until she was available, don’t forget that daylight savings time was drawing to a close at the end of April 1981. Clocks would be set forward one hour, making for much more daylight in the evening hours. Personally, if I was to commit a crime by picking someone up at his/her house, I’d opt to do so under the cover of night – less chance of being seen per se. I personally feel (and this is just speculation) that the killer had to accomplish this task before daylight savings time set in.

As for the motive, who’s to say? Nobody really knows except the killer. Maybe he did want to sexually assault Kelly, but for whatever reason, couldn’t pull it off.
As for two people being involved in this crime, that’s an interesting theory, but police and news reports have never alluded to this that I’m aware of. The killer has consistently been described in the singular.

As for someone going to the funeral home in Calgary on July 2, 1981, to identify the body, considering her body was badly