Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => New Brunswick Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Topic started by: Mom on July 12, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Title: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on July 12, 2011, 07:46:19 PM
Former beer executive killed at his desk with an axe

There was standing room only at Tuesday’s funeral for prominent New Brunswick businessman Richard (Dick) Oland, who was bludgeoned to death with an axe last week.

About 450 family members, friends, politicians and members of the Saint John business community gathered at the Our Lady of Perpetual Help church in Rothesay, N.B. to honour Oland, of the Moosehead Brewing family.

The 69-year-old prominent Oland was found murdered last Thursday at his desk.

“He was killed with an axe. He was bludgeoned to death,” a source familiar with the investigation told the Toronto Star, adding that while police remain tight lipped about the details, they do have a “number one” suspect, whose story is full of inconsistencies.

Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid issued a press release Monday stating “there is no evidence at this time to suggest that this was a robbery or a random act” and told reporters that the investigation will likely show that Oland and his killer knew each other.

Oland’s body was found in his Canterbury Street office in Saint John on Thursday, at which point police described his death as suspicious.

Saint John police said Monday they’ve determined Oland was the victim of foul play but they declined to say how he died.

“Preliminary results of the autopsy coupled with evidence at the scene clearly indicate Richard Oland was a victim of foul play,” Reid said in a statement.

“We are collectively committed to bringing anyone involved in Richard Oland’s death to justice. ... Grieving family and friends need answers to the question, ‘Who is responsible?’”

Besides his wife Constance, Oland is survived by two daughters Elizabeth (Lisa), Jacqueline and son Dennis Oland, of Rothesay, N.B., and seven grandchildren.

Oland was a member of the family that owns Moosehead Breweries Ltd., but he left the company in the 1980s.

He grew up in Rothesay and was educated at the University of New Brunswick. He was the younger brother of Derek Oland, who is now executive chairman of Moosehead, Canada’s oldest independent brewery, established in 1867.

A spokesman for Derek Oland said Monday he would not comment on the investigation.

Richard Oland also worked in the trucking business, at the Saint John Shipbuilding and Drydock Co., and as a director for several firms, including Eastern Provincial Airways, Newfoundland Capital Corp. and Ganong Bros.

More recently, he was president of the investment firm Far End Corp., according to the Saint John Board of Trade. He was also known as a competitive yachtsman and fitness advocate.

Last year, Oland and his crew aboard the Vela Veloce won the IRC division of the International Rolex Regatta off St. Thomas, one of the U.S. Virgin Islands.

He also served as president of the board of the 1985 Canada Summer Games in Saint John, and was appointed an officer of the Order of Canada in 1998.

The Oland family can trace its brewing roots to 1867, when John and Susannah Oland started the Army and Navy Brewery in what was then Dartmouth. The company was later sold, but the family returned to the business, eventually setting up the Maritime Brewing and Malting Co. in the port city.

After the Halifax Explosion destroyed the family’s plant in 1917, George Oland — Richard’s grandfather — moved to New Brunswick, where he bought another brewery.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/canada/article/562051--former-beer-executive-killed-at-his-desk-with-an-axe
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on July 12, 2011, 07:55:03 PM

Interesting quality and quantity of information we receive for this case compared to some of the other ones we ponder about.... eh?

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 12, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
Okay, I read it , and I will take the big quantum leap and suggest a family member. The detectives may have soon have this solved. How did this person get past security (cameras). He or she was familiar with the lay of the land, and had been there before. I mean to smuggle an ax into  the premises, this person must have worn a long garment. Also Richard trusted this person. He (Richard) was relaxed around this individual - was totally unsuspecting as to the fate that met him.
JMO

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on July 12, 2011, 08:47:52 PM

Yes, I think so too, Jellybean.

This sentence is all too telling:
Quote
“He was killed with an axe. He was bludgeoned to death,” a source familiar with the investigation told the Toronto Star, adding that while police remain tight lipped about the details, they do have a “number one” suspect, whose story is full of inconsistencies.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 13, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
http://www.metronews.ca/edmonton/canada/article/914019--richard-oland-victim-of-homicide-police-say


Richard Oland victim of homicide, police say


Published: July 12, 2011 9:55 a.m.


SAINT JOHN, N.B. - The death of businessman Richard Oland, who was a scion of a well-known Maritimes beer-brewing family, is being investigated as a homicide that police in New Brunswick don't believe involved robbery or was a random act.
 
Oland's body was found in his Canterbury Street office in Saint John on Thursday, at which point police described his death as suspicious. He was 69.
 
Saint John police said Monday they've determined Oland was the victim of foul play but they declined to say how he died.
 
"Preliminary results of the autopsy coupled with evidence at the scene clearly indicate Richard Oland was a victim of foul play," police Chief Bill Reid said in a statement.
 
"There is no evidence at this time to suggest that this was a robbery or a random act.
 
"We are collectively committed to bringing anyone involved in Richard Oland's death to justice. ... Grieving family and friends need answers to the question, 'Who is responsible?'"
 
Reid told a news conference that investigators believe Oland knew the person responsible for his death.
 
"I would suggest to you that at the end of this investigation we'll find that the perpetrator and the victim knew each other," he said. "There was an acquaintance there."
 
Oland's funeral is scheduled for Tuesday.
 
He was a member of the family that owns Moosehead Breweries Ltd., but he left the company in the 1980s.
 
He grew up in Rothesay, a suburb of Saint John, and was educated at the University of New Brunswick. He was the younger brother of Derek Oland, who is now executive chairman of Moosehead.
 
A spokesman for Derek Oland said Monday he would not comment on the investigation.
 
Richard Oland also worked in the trucking business, at the Saint John Shipbuilding and Drydock Co., and as a director for several firms, including Eastern Provincial Airways, Newfoundland Capital Corp. and Ganong Bros.
 
More recently, he was president of the investment firm Far End Corp., according to the Saint John Board of Trade. He was also known as a competitive yachtsman and fitness advocate.
 
Last year, Oland and his crew aboard the Vela Volce won the IRC division of the International Rolex Regatta off St. Thomas, one of the U.S. Virgin Islands.
 
He also served as president of the board of the 1985 Canada Summer Games in Saint John, and was appointed an officer of the Order of Canada in 1998.
 
The Oland family can trace its brewing roots to 1867, when John and Susannah Oland started the Army and Navy Brewery in what was then Dartmouth. The company was later sold, but the family returned to the business, eventually setting up the Maritime Brewing and Malting Co. in the port city.
 
After the Halifax Explosion destroyed the family's plant in 1917, George Oland — Richard's grandfather — moved to New Brunswick, where he bought another brewery.
 
Note to readers: This is a corrected story. A previous version said the Army and Navy Brewery was started in Halifax. In fact, the brewery was based in neighbouring Dartmouth, which did not become part of Halifax until 1996.



More about Crime
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Annastaisha on July 14, 2011, 08:00:44 AM
An axe is not a preferred weapon choice. This sounds personal and full of rage and hatred :( And definately like someone close to him. I pray for the family that not only must deal with his untimely and cruel death but also the knowledge of who did this.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 14, 2011, 01:13:34 PM
I suggest that it was a woman!! Why? Womens clothing, skirt, dress, could hide an ax.
I would look at a family member who is mentally unstable.
PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Annastaisha on July 14, 2011, 01:36:44 PM
Good theory but an axe is dependant on physical strength to swing and do damage to the target. Its also very messy so  there must be people who have seen something as an attacker could not have left without making a mess. What about a man in a trench coat? Or, a hatchet rather than an axe - carried in a briefcase?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on July 14, 2011, 02:03:17 PM

Quote
Reid said the sheer amount of evidence was partly to blame for the delay in ruling the death a "homicide."

That's odd.... only that first news report mentioned he was bludgeoned to death with an axe.... and NOW reports say there was a delay in ruling the death a homicide.  ??

Those stories, and visuals, are quite contradictory.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 14, 2011, 02:26:50 PM
It should perhaps be pointed out that none of the local news media in Saint John have given any hint as to what was used as a murder weapon in Mr. Oland's death. 

I am not saying it wasn't an axe - simply that police, to this point at least, have not confirmed cause of death other than that it was a homicide and have not made public what type of weapon, if any, was used.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on July 14, 2011, 07:43:31 PM

Hey Ruby... I too have noticed that it has only been the ONE source (that I know of) here in Guelph, Ontario that reported Mr. Oland being bludgeoned to death by an axe.  In my original post, and the intent of posting this crime, was to show the contradictory of the amount and kind of information that was reported in Mr. Oland's case compared to many, many of the other threads on this forum.

It's interesting.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 15, 2011, 03:08:38 AM
The Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail have also reported it that way, Mom.   For obvious reasons the police aren't commenting on the latest development, so it all remains pure speculation.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on July 15, 2011, 06:50:22 AM
I heard on the news last night that the police searched Oland's son's house.   I also at one point heard that he was bludgeoned with an axe...
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 15, 2011, 07:38:56 AM
Here is a link to the story in today's Saint John Telegraph Journal regarding the search yesterday by Saint John police of Dennis Oland's property.

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/actualites/article/1423692
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 15, 2011, 08:40:35 AM
A poster earlier had questioned how an axe (if indeed that is what was used as the murder weapon) could be smuggled into the premises.  My best guess (and that's all it is) is that it would already have been there.  In my experience, it is not at all unusual to see small business owners, after severe winter storms in Saint John, chopping away at thick ice accumulations on the sidewalks in front of their establishments.  I cannot say I have specifically seen this happen at this business but it is a possibility.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on July 15, 2011, 11:22:02 AM
RubyRose I remember in previous years that all old buildings in this area, NS and NB had "Fire Axes" in a glass case on the walls of the halls in case of fire.
Could it be a case of the weapon  already being there?  I know my old school and the Hospital had many of these on the walls for fire reasons.
Also guys, they make some pretty small axes these day, not as long or heavy as they used to be. Could have been carried in a back pack/duffel bag or briefcase for that matter.
I previously worked for a company that made very small axes for camping that were only 10" long and handles were made of lightweight plastic polymer.
When people think of axes they usually think of the long heavy woodsman axes for splitting wood but there are many smaller axes on the market.

The news of a possible family member being investigated will be so hard on the widow and other family members and friends on top of the grief of losing Mr Oland.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 15, 2011, 12:40:32 PM
Yes, Trouble445.  This is a very old building, as are most along that street, and might very well still have a fire axe in the glass case on a wall or walls. 

I agree.  One cannot begin to imagine what that family is going through.  Devastating enough to lose Mr. Oland in that manner without another family member being under suspicion.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 15, 2011, 02:02:11 PM
Police search of woods may be linked to Oland death
CBC News Posted: Jul 15, 2011 3:35 PM AT Last Updated: Jul 15, 2011 4:32 PM
Saint John police won't say if their search of a wooded area in Rothesay is related to the Richard Oland homicide investigation. (CBC)Saint John police searched another property in the neighbouring suburb of Rothesay on Friday, but wouldn't confirm whether it's related to last week's death of prominent businessman Richard Oland.

About a dozen officers with the major crime unit spent the morning combing a wooded area next to a ballfield at the Bill McGuire community centre on Shore Road, an area known locally as the Renforth wharf.

Sgt. Glenn Hayward would say only that the search is related to a "major investigation."

Officers didn't appear to be carrying anything when they emerged from the woods about 12:30 p.m. AT, after about four hours of scouring the area. Officials said no other searches were planned for the day.

Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7. (Canadian Yachting Association)Area residents have seen police dogs searching the same area at least twice since Oland was found dead in his Saint John office just over a week ago.

Kayak instructor Emily Benson saw officers looking through garbage bins at the nearby Renforth beach a couple of days ago.

"A lot of people in the community have noticed it — myself and the lifeguards and some of the other people that work around the area," she said. "I've just seen people walking around, checking things out...just looking around, searching for something, I'm not quite sure what."

Police haven't offered any comment on previous searches of the area, but Rothesay police have confirmed that any searches were not related to any of their investigations.

On Thursday, police executed a search warrant a short distance away from the centre at the home of Oland's son, Dennis Oland, on Gondola Point Road.

The body of 69-year-old Richard Oland was discovered in his Saint John office on Canterbury Street on July 7.

Police have said he was the victim of a homicide and likely knew his killer.

Hayward wouldn't say whether Thursday's search was related to the homicide investigation either.

Officers spent several hours at the home and hauled away several boxes and bags. The search appeared to be over on Friday. A security car was blocking the driveway, where a wooden sign reads "Private. Friends Welcome."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/07/15/nb-oland-another-search.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 15, 2011, 02:18:24 PM
And this:
*****************

A police search of a wooded area next to a ball field in Saint John. N.B., is believed to be linked to the investigation into the death of Richard Oland, a well-known entrepreneur and philanthropist.

According to radio station CHSJ in Saint John, police have been combing the area since 9 a.m. Friday.

On Thursday, cops executed a search warrant at a home in the suburb where Oland lived, but wouldn't confirm reports that the home belongs to his son, Dennis.

Sgt. Glenn Hayward said the force's major crimes unit executed a warrant at 58 Gondola Point Rd. in the Saint John suburb of Rothesay.

Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office last Thursday.

Police initially called his death suspicious, and on Monday said they were treating it as a homicide. 
   

Police have revealed little information, and have refused to confirm a report that Oland was bludgeoned in the head with an axe.

Oland was a former executive at Moosehead Breweries, but left his family's business in the 1980s to venture into the transportation industry. He sat on several boards in his community and was a competitive sailor with his boat, Vela Veloce.

Oland was appointed an officer of the Order of Canada in 1998 for his dedication "to the creation of cultural and recreational opportunities for his region."

Oland's homicide has rattled Saint John and Rothesay, where he lived.

Rothesay Mayor William Bishop said the death came as a shock.

"It's something we don't expect in this community," Bishop said Wednesday.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/07/14/18420871.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 16, 2011, 01:02:40 PM
Am curious as to whether or not, Rothesay/ Gondola Point area is policed by Saint John police.  I was of the opinion Gondola Point was covered by another LE..could be incorrect.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 16, 2011, 01:27:34 PM
No, amIam, these areas are not policed by Saint John police.  Rothesay Regional Police have confirmed they are not involved in this investigation.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 17, 2011, 02:55:04 PM
The murder occurred in Saint John so I wouldn't think there would be any reason for the Rothesay Police to be involved in the actual investigation which would include the searches of any houses or properties.  No doubt there would likely be some degree of co-operation between the two forces if this were required.  As for the RCMP, unless there is much more to this than we know of so far (and indeed there very well could be because everything to this point is still pure speculation), I can't think of any reason why they would be brought in at all.

I would be surprised if an arrest were made this quickly. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 17, 2011, 04:58:15 PM
"Police have revealed little information, and have refused to confirm a report that Oland was bludgeoned in the head with an axe."  
Question? When police refuse to "confirm" a statement is suspicious to me. If an axe was not involved, what would they have to lose to refute it? JMO
They are checking in the woods of his son's property, and surrounding area -looking for the weapon no doubt? JMO

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 19, 2011, 06:34:46 AM
 ROTHESAY, N.B.—The high-profile murder of Richard Oland has left an “eerie” pall hanging over his sleepy hometown, residents say.

Oland, a 69-year-old philanthropist and member of the family that controls Moosehead Breweries, was murdered July 7. He was the victim of an axe attack, according to a source.

Approximately 20 police officers from St. John searched the home of Oland’s only son, Dennis, a week after the murder. Investigators have not made any arrests.

A mechanical engineer who lives in the area with his wife and two kids said he finds it “eerie” in Rothesay right now because of the uncertainty.

“People are scared,” said Sarah Wilkin, a graduate student who grew up in the area.

Stretching along the Kennebacasis River, this town of 12,000 residents is still in shock. Despite the sensational nature of the crime, few are talking about it publicly. They say they want to respect the family’s privacy and not hurt them further.

The Oland family itself is operating on a strict no-comment policy.

“These are trying times for our family,” Andrew Oland, Richard’s great-nephew, told the Toronto Star.

Local families and high school kids hang out on the wharf in Renforth, which melds with the town of Rothesay. From the wharf, one can look across and see the Villa Madonna, an old convent. Police searched the area late last week but wouldn’t confirm if it was connected to the investigation.

“That is not a typical thing around here,” said Craig MacDonald, who lives in the area. “I thought that was weird.”

Police are continuing their investigation and did not comment Monday.

With files from Kenyon Wallace

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1026684--town-stunned-into-silence-by-oland-murder?bn=1
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 19, 2011, 02:42:07 PM
I really don't find it strange, amIam.  Since Saint John police are in charge of the investigation, I would expect them also to be in charge of any searches, etc  I would think this would be with the full co-operation of the Rothesay Regional Police & I'm sure it is.  (No.  They are not a small, volunteer police force - small, maybe but they have a good track record as do the Saint John police, for that matter).

I don't particularly feel the RCMP should be brought in unless there are elements of the case of which we are not aware.  I'm quite confident that members of both the Saint John & Rothesay police would at least be capable of recognizing a stapler when they see one.  Perhaps I'm being unfair since I also believe most of the general population would be able to as well.

I may stand to be corrected on this but I believe that the ball field area which was searched does fall within the boundaries of the city of Saint John.

I guess only time will tell what will happen with the case next.  For the sake of everone in Mr. Oland's family, I hope there will be some resolution soon.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 21, 2011, 01:20:30 PM



The Saint John police force is coming under scrutiny for its handling of the Richard Oland homicide.

The 69-year-old prominent businessman was found dead in his office nearly two weeks ago. Police determined the cause of death to be homicide.

Some people have suggested the police are taking too long and revealing too little about the investigation, but not everyone agrees.

Police spent days on the scene on Canterbury Street, gathering evidence and conducting interviews.

They've executed at least two searches — one at the Rothesay home of Oland's son, Dennis, another at a ball field at the nearby Bill McGuire Community Centre.

So far, no charges have been laid.

"I don't find that strange. I think that's par for the course," said veteran lawyer Allen Doyle, adding that two weeks is not a long time for a homicide investigation. "Generally speaking, you're going to be more thorough — you're going to make sure all your i's are dotted, and t's are crossed."

Doyle defended Carmen Tessier, who was charged in 2000 with second-degree murder in the death of his girlfriend Brenda Cosgrove after a 10-year investigation.

"The evidence in that case was unbelievable. There were boxes and boxes and boxes of information that over a span of 10 years had been collected. So I would think in two weeks with what we're dealing with right now, it will be a while before anything really comes to light."

Doyle said he could understand police taking their time.

In Tessier's case, police had a videotaped confession, but the trial judge threw that out and the Supreme Court of Canada dismissed the charge.

"I think they're just being overly cautious and make sure they've got it right. The first thing a defence lawyer is going to be looking for are holes in the case, and they don't want to leave any."

Police keep investigation under wraps
Criminologist Michael Boudreau said police also don't want to reveal too much information and jeopardize the investigation.

"They're under media scrutiny. I mean, this is not just a local case, this is a provincial case, a national case," said Boudreau.

He's not surprised police are disclosing little about the investigation.

"Obviously there is a killer somewhere and they need to find that person quickly, but if they start revealing information that may then provide the killer with information that they are onto him or her, and they may then leave."

He said that secrecy can fuel innuendo about who may have killed Oland and how he was killed.

But revealing too much information can backfire too.

"The flip side of that scenario is if you reveal too much information, then people may start to have the wrong idea and start publicly blaming people or naming people, and then you have the issue of vigilantism and that can be very, very dangerous as well."

Police did not return calls from CBC News Wednesday.

At this point, there is no word on how the investigation is going or how much longer it will take before someone is charged.

End of Story ContentBack to accessibility links
Story Social Mediahttp://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/07/20/nb-police-scrutiny-richard-oland.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 21, 2011, 01:28:09 PM
The building was not under renovation to my knowledge, amIam.  It is an older building and Mr. Oland rented office space on the second floor.  There is a printing business on the lower floor and the owner of that business also owns the building.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 21, 2011, 02:03:07 PM
I agree with what Allen Doyle and Michael Boudreau say in the news story quoted above.  I think it is unfortunate that much (whether the stories are accurate or not) has already been revealed.  In my opinion (for what it's worth) it only hurts the investigation and makes things that much more difficult for the Oland family.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 23, 2011, 05:15:24 AM
The Saint John police spent hours Thursday searching the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club, but officials are not connecting the investigation into the killing of high-profile businessman Richard Oland.

This is the latest search of a property that may be connected to Oland's death.

Oland, whose family still owns Moosehead Breweries, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7.

Ken Ward, a member of the yacht club, said he arrived at the club in Millidgeville, which is a neighbourhood of Saint John, on Thursday at about 10 a.m. AT to find the area blocked off to everyone but members.

Saint John police won't say if their search of a wooded area in Rothesay is related to the Richard Oland homicide investigation. (CBC)He said one uniformed police officer was standing at the gate.

"Everyone else was wearing plain clothes so I didn't even really notice them until I saw the divers in the water and somebody taking pictures," he said.

Ward said police seemed to pay special attention to one of the roughly 200 boats at the club — a seven-metre avocado-coloured sailboat, called Loki.

A 2010 RKYC directory lists the boat as belonging to Lisa Ferguson, who is Oland's daughter-in-law.

Ward said he doesn't know what the divers were looking for, but he said they'd be hard-pressed to find anything in the water.

"It's pretty murky down there and it's muddy and there's zero visibility," he said.

Police wouldn't say what they were searching for, or even confirm if the search was related to the Oland homicide investigation.

"The major crime unit were were conducting a search in the area of the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club in regards to an ongoing file the major crime unit is working on," said Sgt. Glenn Hayward.

There was no sign of police at the club Friday, however Bill Teed, a lawyer for the family, was there.

He declined to comment to CBC News, but was seen boarding the boat in question.

Last Thursday, police also searched the Rothesay home of Dennis Oland, the victim's son, and Ferguson's husband.

They spent several hours on the scene and carted away several bags and boxes.

The following day, police also searched a nearby wooded area, around the Bill McGuire Community Centre, also in Rothesay.

Police have not confirmed if any of the searches are related to the homicide investigation.

Police said he likely knew his killer but they have refused to give many more details about the homicide investigation.

The Oland family owns Moosehead Brewery, but Richard Oland left the company in the 1980s. His brother Derek now runs the brewery as its executive chairman.

Oland was an accomplished sailor. He won the International Rolex Regatta in St. Thomas in 2010.

End of Story ContentBack to accessibility links
Story Social Med
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/07/22/nb-oland-search-update-1015.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 23, 2011, 07:45:19 PM
Heard on CBC, that there was one Yacht which the detectives were going over and it belonged to Mr. Oland's daugher-in-law.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 27, 2011, 02:00:12 PM
http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/front/article/1425729

Yacht club | Port city police remain silent on detailsA1By MARK IYPE
Canadaeast News Service

SAINT JOHN - A sailboat docked at the Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club and listed as belonging to the daughter-in-law of slain Saint John businessman Richard (Dick) Oland was searched by police Thursday, says a club member who witnessed the investigation.

Police officers spent several hours rummaging through the greyish-green boat named Loki as police divers were seen swimming through the murky waters surrounding the marina, said club member Ken Ward.

"They were on board for quite a while," said Ward.

"But I have no idea if they found anything."

According to a 2010 yacht club directory, the boat belongs to Lisa Ferguson, the wife of Oland's son Dennis.

In keeping with the silence surrounding the high-profile case, police wouldn't confirm whether the search was related to the investigation into Oland's death or if they have any suspects.

Police spokesman Sgt. Glenn Hayward would only say the search was part of "an ongoing major investigation."

Ward said police locked the gates to the Millidgeville yacht club at around 9 a.m., allowing only members onto the property for the next six hours.

He said divers searched under most of the boats in the marina, something he described as a difficult task, given the size of the yacht club, which holds almost 200 vessels.

"It's pretty mucky down there," Ward said.

"Be almost impossible to find anything, especially if they don't know what they're looking for."

It isn't known if police were searching for a specific item.

Ward said police concentrated their search on Ferguson's boat.

A week ago, members of the major crime unit, along with a canine team, searched Dennis Oland's home, spending all day on the large estate located around the corner from his father's house.

About 20 officers spent more than eight hours on the property, which has been in the Oland family for generations and is where Dennis Oland lives with his own family.

The following day, police searched a wooded area just down the road from the Oland homestead.

Then, as on Thursday, police refused to say if they were investigating the death of the Dick Oland.

Oland, 69, a member of the famed Moosehead beer-brewing family, was found dead in his office July 7.

The police department has kept mum, saying only that Oland likely knew his killer and that it wasn't a random act or suicide.

Police haven't released the cause of death.

Few details have emerged about the homicide of a man lauded by many as a successful entrepreneur, community leader and officer of the Order of Canada.

Oland ran Far End Corp., a personal investment holding company, and Kingshurst Estates, a property-rental company, from his uptown office where he was killed.

Those were just the latest businesses run by the Moosehead scion since he left the family-owned brewery in 1981.

However, over the past decade, Oland spent less time concentrating on his business interests and more on his lifelong passion for sailing.

With files from April Cunningham

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 27, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
Am, this was my fault, in the pasting of it, I ended up with John so I assumed it was St.  Being a Westerner, what and the heck do I know? So it must have been Saint John, or whatever!! Hopefully one got the gist of the article. lol I have corrected it by way of modifying.
No mistakes were made in the article, and of course the link is there - by god's grace!!
Thanks, Am you are such stickler for detail!!  :) "Get it right the first time huh !!"
I corrected the error. :-[

PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on July 28, 2011, 08:52:23 AM
I've been reading following this thread for a while now and have also noticed the"St.". No biggie, anyhow I had read an article this past weekend and I haven't a clue how to post it!!!! Duh!! It was in the National Post on Saturday July 23, no info. on the murder, but an interesting article none the less. If someone has time could they look for it and post it. I have it saved, but can't figure out how to get it on here. Ugh.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on July 28, 2011, 09:30:34 AM
Thank you so much, you are too kind. I do understand the copy paste scenerio a bit, but finding it difficult on my mo bile phone. Still seem to be having some trouble so this is the name of the article. "Mystery Brewing Around Dick Oland's Murder", printed in the National Post on Sunday July 24 2011. Again no new info on the actual murder, but jammed packed full of Dick's characteristics, and the types of relationships he had. Again thank you so much for your help. Be well.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on July 28, 2011, 09:34:29 AM
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/24/mystery-brewing-around-dick-olands-murder/

That the one 3littlemonkeys? Just click on the link and it takes you straight to article.

very interesting.....
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on July 28, 2011, 10:07:54 AM
Thank you, that's it.

I grew up and still live in this wonderful community, Dick Oland was a quiet part of our society but the issues surrounding him and his family have always been "talked" about.  Hopefully the Saint John Blue Boys can get this figured out, maybe they already have? Time will tell.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 28, 2011, 02:53:22 PM
In Saint John, N.B.

On June 14, Saint John’s Harbour Bridge was shut down for maintenance, part of a multi-million dollar refurbishment project that has been going on for two years. But the brief and routine closure and the traffic chaos that ensued quickly sparked rumours that spread like wildfire through the port city that Dennis Oland, a member of one of New Brunswick’s most powerful families, had jumped from the bridge.

The story quickly proved to be false, but it is the latest in the flow of salacious gossip that has filled the information vacuum in the weeks since the murder of Dick Oland, 69, one-time heir to the throne of Moosehead Breweries, Canada’s oldest and largest family-run beer company. Mr. Oland was found dead inside the uptown Saint John office of his investment company, Far End Corp., on July 7.
Police have revealed little about the murder except to say that Mr. Oland was likely killed by someone he knew. No one has been charged. They have yet to release a cause of death, despite widespread reports that Mr. Oland was beaten with a blunt object, nor have they revealed a murder weapon, a motive or even revealed who first found the body, although Mr. Oland had both a long-time secretary and an accountant who regularly worked out of the office.

“Everyone is having a difficult time given the circumstances,” said Pat Darrah, a friend of Mr. Oland’s for 35 years who declined an interview request.
 
.The family itself has been sequestered in its estate in the picture-perfect suburb of Rothesay on the shores of the Kennebecasis River, where they have offered no comment on the tragedy. What little communication they have had with the media has dried up ever since police raided the family’s homestead, known as Sevenacres, which Dennis Oland inherited from his grandfather, Moosehead patriarch Philip Oland.

A private security company now patrols that property as well as the stately home a short walk away that Dick Oland shared with Connie, his wife of 46 years.

The search warrant for Dennis Oland’s house has been sealed by the court. So have the records of Dennis Oland’s divorce from his first wife Lesley, a Saint John real estate agent with whom he has three children. A 2007 lawsuit between Dick Oland and the Moosehead holding company controlled by his brother, brewery chairman Derek Oland, is also sealed, although court staff said the file had been replaced by a handwritten note that the contents had been returned to the applicant, an unusual twist.

“It’s just dreadful that they’re so secretive about what’s what,” said Margaret Steele, who has lived across the street from the Olands for 60 years. “I’m sure if they would come out with some information, it would be much better for everybody. It’s very, very sad. There’s so many crazy rumours going around.”

On Thursday, police searched a boat at the nearby Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club that was registered to Lisa Ferguson, Dennis Oland’s second wife, a one-time aid to Saint John Conservative MP Rodney Weston. Both Ms. Ferguson and Dick Oland, an avid competitive sailor, were listed in 2010 as senior members at the club.

“It’s been very hard for them, very hard,” said Ms. Ferguson’s mother, Esther Andrik. “They’re getting a lot of calls. It’s depressing not knowing what and how.”

The public, she said, shouldn’t draw conclusions from investigators’ focus on her daughter and son-in-law.

“It was televised more than it should have been, especially because Dennis is a really nice person and I don’t even know how they can think that,” she said. “The whole family, they are very nice people.”

“I think they’re barking up the wrong tree,” echoed Ms. Steele. “It’s very upsetting because [Dennis] is such a nice guy.”


Related
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/24/mystery-brewing-around-dick-olands-murder/
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on July 28, 2011, 02:57:13 PM
Thanks Trouble445 for posting the link to 3littlemonkeys request.  Hope you don't mind that I copied and pasted the article..certainly an interesting read.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on July 29, 2011, 12:20:08 AM
Thanks amIam for posting the whole thing, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 01, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
It has now been 3 weeks since the murder of Dick Oland and still no info on who or how. The homes of both Dick and his son Dennis seem to be rid of security.
Dennis' home formerly owned by his grandfather, P.W Oland, also doubles as a local pony club. It seems to be up and running, almost like nothing ever happened. I do hope that this case is on it's way to being solved.
Also, I've been reading many different posts and am very touched and saddened by ALL of these stories.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 03, 2011, 04:33:52 PM
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/07/28/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty/

This is a great article, but too long to post on here.

So I am quoting a portion of it. He was a hard driven man, and had plenty of enemies, so it appears.


Murder and a maritime dynasty
The death of Dick Oland has a province worried and wondering

by Nicholas Köhler on Thursday, July 28, 2011 4:55pm - 1 Comment

Quote
The obituaries that followed his murder dwelt, rightfully so, on Oland’s many contributions to the community, from his role in bringing the Canada Games to Saint John in 1985 to his presidency of the New Brunswick Museum, which he helped install in nifty new digs in 1996. “Wherever we walk in life in the city of Saint John, we’re walking on contributions made by that family,” as John Rocca, a local developer, puts it. So too did the obituaries mention Oland’s sporting pursuits, most crucially his yacht racing in international waters, including his victory last year in the US-IRC National Championship aboard the New Zealand-made, state-of-the-art carbon-fibre Vela Veloce, which Oland recently listed for sale at $850,000. As one acquaintance says: “He liked to be upfront, he liked to be recognized.”
 
Only hinted at was Oland’s reputation around Rothesay and Saint John as a hard man to get along with; it was not for nothing that attendees left Dick’s packed funeral last week to the strains of My Way. “A very capable guy,” as one acquaintance has it, “but there would be a few people, after he got through with them, with footmarks on their backs.”
 
His hard-driving ways extended even to his dealings with family members. It was that often uncompromising nature that caused his departure, in 1981, from Moosehead Breweries Ltd., now the last nationally distributed independent Canadian brewery in Canada (Molson and Labatt have long been subsumed by multinationals), and where Dick had sought to become president. Instead, his father, Philip Oland—P.W., he was called—chose Dick’s brother Derek, two years his senior, to succeed him. It was a family dust-up with echoes in distant Oland history.
 
As for the Oland present, all of New Brunswick, if not all of Canada, is wondering at it. Says Clark Sancton, a Saint John businessman who knew Oland as a regular lunch companion at the old-fashioned, English-style Union Club: “The dangling question is, what happened to Dick? Most of us that knew Dick say, well, who did he annoy that much that they would kill him? I think we’re going to be very surprised.”
unquote.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 03, 2011, 07:49:35 PM
I read this article earlier today(not able to post it, I rely on my mobile phone for internet service and can't figure out how to copy and paste on the darn thing). I feel saddened by the way Mr.Oland has been portrayed in the last 2 articles written since his death. He was the victim of a henious crime, I myself am driven and like things done when I want them done, and the way I want them done. This man was an officer of the Order of Canada. He has done many good (great) things. I hope all of the great things he had accomplished can overshadow the negative attributes of his personality. May his soul rest in peace, and may his family find comfort on the good that Dick did.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 04, 2011, 07:55:56 AM
We, here in the heart of Rothesay remain in the dark, the info. we have been given is vague. It would appear that Dicks son had a hand in this tradgedy, but it has all been speculation by the public. It would be my guess that the police are searching for some evidence (hopefully processing it at this time) from the items they removed from the sons home where he lives with his second wife Lisa Ferguson (Andrik). The police searched a boat at the RKYC that was "registered" to her, and searched the waters below. There has been no word on that search or any of the others in weeks. I could only hope the police know who did it and are trying to make a bullet proof case. I'll let you know if anything is printed in our local news papers.
Btw, this is a great site, you all seem to be so informed and extremely dedicated. Great job:)

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on August 04, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
Thank you for your kind words. It is a great site, we can try and give our views and support to some who have great tragedy happening in their lives. We just want to get the cases solved, because there are so many. I guess you could say we are armchair detectives. Hoping the police do solve Dick's homicide, a very tragic ending for a well known and kind and generous man, according to many.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 04, 2011, 03:57:47 PM
3littlemonkeys, Thank you for keeping us abreast as to the mood in your area, and your first hand reports.  Much appreciated.
Re: The McLeans article which I posted, shows that he was a very complicated man. And the history of the well to do in your area  is a fascinating study.
For such a small city, you have many longstanding families who were builders of pillar stones of society not only in your city, but they have contributed to Canada.

JB
ps.Apart from removing documents,  I think the police are also  looking for the ax.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 04, 2011, 04:03:05 PM
You are very welcome. It seems to me that many of the posters on here have suffered a tradgedy and that sickens me. I am a single mother of three little ones and their lives are soooooooo....... precious. I couldn't imagine losing them. My heart would ache for an eternity. Again, great work, keep it up:)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 04, 2011, 05:03:14 PM
Yes, Am, I agree.  Many powerful people are in that town, and the Oland family was a part of it.  It certainly would be a delicate situation interviewing these people. Guess, they will just have to use their best manners and carry on with it.  Wouldn't want to be on that police force right about now, or be the Police Commissioner. JMO

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on August 04, 2011, 05:10:51 PM

I think we get used to hearing all the sensational details of murders from the U.S. that we feel the cops here are being "tight-lipped" about information.  Or, about certain murders.  And, I don't think that's the case... we know little-to-nothing more about Dick Oland's murder than we do about Laura Robertson.  In my opinion, it doesn't have anything to do with the victim's status in the community as much as it has to do with the country the crime has been committed in and the freedom of information.

Personally, I like the system we have here in Canada.  We let the Judge and Jury hear the information first-hand and from the source to enable them to make a decision.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 04, 2011, 06:45:01 PM
jellybean, yes many high profile families in this bedroom community of 12,000, high earning families are the norm here. Mr. Oland, at the time of his death, was an investor, I think that (money) may have been the motive, just speculation.
He had many strained relationships, but was still a good man, you may notice in the last two articles(national post July 24 & mcleans July 28) there was no mention of him being a family man. Loving father grandfather or husband were terms not used to describe this man. I think this paints him in a dim light, unfair really. I don't believe this crime was committed by an immediate family member. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on August 05, 2011, 12:24:09 AM
I agree, 3littlemonkeys.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 05, 2011, 08:55:59 AM
The following article gives a better balance of Mr. Oland's life. Found this article today. In my opinion, he was a great achiever. - if he had to ruffle feathers to get things done - well, he did just that! And in the end,  the goal was achieved.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/07/08/nb-tributes-richard-oland.html

Richard Oland remembered by Saint John citizens

The following is a partial quote from the above article:

'Oh the fun we had'
 
Pat Darrah said he knew Oland for decades.
 
"Oh the fun we had and I was close to him," said Darrah.
 
He and Oland worked together to bring the Canada Games to Saint John in 1985.
Darrah noted he sometimes had to soothe ruffled feathers because Oland was not always diplomatic when he was determined to get something done.

"His heart and soul was in the cause," Darrah said.
 
Darrah also said Oland was a champion for the city.
 
"The legacy of what he's done for the community shows in every corner of it," he said.
 
A driving force
 
Oland also served as the president of the New Brunswick Museum for years, helping establish it in uptown Saint John.
 
"He was certainly driven," said museum CEO Jane Fullerton. "He was passionate. He was focused on getting things done. He had an ability to bring people together and to get them to work together to get things done."
 
Oland was honoured as an Officer of the Order of Canada in 1997, for his efforts as an entrepreneur with a social conscience.
 


When not hard at work, Oland raced yachts, winning races around the world, including the International Rolex Regatta in St. Thomas in 2010.
 
Macgregor Grant sailed with Oland since they were kids and said Oland was an inspiration in the sailing community.
 
"He was somebody that had gone to the big leagues, out of here, and done really well, and something you could aspire to," Grant said.
 
Oland is survived by his wife, three children and six grandchildren.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on August 05, 2011, 03:09:51 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/08/05/nb-oland-lawyer-gary-miller.html

Son of slain Saint John man hires criminal lawyer
Dennis Oland retains Fredericton's Gary Miller
CBC News
Posted: Aug 5, 2011 5:16 PM AT
Last Updated: Aug 5, 2011 5:16 PM AT

The son of slain Saint John businessman Richard Oland has hired a high-profile criminal defence lawyer, CBC News has learned.

Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7.

Gary Miller confirmed he's been retained by Richard Oland's son, Dennis Oland. He declined to offer any other comment.

Miller, who is based in Fredericton, is one of the most prominent criminal defence lawyers in New Brunswick.

He is perhaps best known for representing the late native rights activist Noah Augustine, who was found not guilty of second-degree murder in 1999 in the shooting of Bruce Barnaby of Eel Ground First Nation.

Miller is also past president of the New Brunswick Criminal Defence Lawyers' Association.

Saint John police are investigating Oland's death as a homicide.

No charges have been laid, and no information has been released about how Richard Oland died, whether any weapons were involved or possible suspects. All police have said is that Oland likely knew his killer.

One week after his death, police searched the Rothesay home and property of his only son Dennis.

They also searched a boat at the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club that belongs to Dennis' wife, Lisa Ferguson.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 06, 2011, 12:51:22 PM
He is smart in getting a lawyer. By obtaining  a lawyer, he can protect himself against false statements made by the media, etc., and a lawyer will protect his rights within the law. By otaining a lawyer, this not an admission that he was in anyway involved with Mr Oland's death.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 07, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
Thank you for that comment jellybean, hopefully it will cause people to look at the other side of the coin. It had been rumoured that Dennis obtained Mr. Miller, a well known name in this part of the province. Now that this rumour has been solidified people don't have any faith in Dennis Oland's innocence. I guess or am hoping that we will all be in the know soon. Take care.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on August 08, 2011, 04:54:19 PM

How ironic... is THIS thread the consensus seems to be that it's a wise decision for the victim's son (who has been scrutinized by police) to hire a Criminal Defense Lawyer.  Whereas, in the Terrie Dauphinais thread the posters consider it to be an admission of guilt when the estranged husband (and only person of interest) hires a Lawyer to defend his rights.

Things that make you go hmmmmm....   :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on August 08, 2011, 05:00:37 PM
Well the police have to be sure they have all their ducks in a row before they charge anyone. They would be making sure that they have the evidence before arresting the person they feel is responsible for Richard's death. They rarely arrest the person immediately, unless they have the smoking gun, so to say. I think they will find the person who killed Richard. There must have been some surveillance cameras around there somewhere in that area. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 08, 2011, 05:02:56 PM
I see what you mean Mom. I have never thought that hiring a lawyer is a sign of guilt.  It is almost  necessary in this day and age. -sad to say not everyone can afford one - but that's another topic. :(
JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Annastaisha on August 09, 2011, 01:36:49 PM
I dont think hiring a lawyer is a sign of guilt - I think HIDING behind one and NOT co-operating with an active police investigation (on the advice of said lawyer) is not right. There is no harm meeting with police with your lawyer - any lawyer worth the thousands you are paying him wont allow the police to railroad or coerce you into saying something incriminating whether you are guilty or not. I've always said if I was ever questioned about something serious OR suspected of a crime I'd hire a lawyer right away to make sure I wasnt tricked into admitting something that I didnt do.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on August 09, 2011, 02:09:26 PM
I dont think hiring a lawyer is a sign of guilt - I think HIDING behind one and NOT co-operating with an active police investigation (on the advice of said lawyer) is not right. There is no harm meeting with police with your lawyer - any lawyer worth the thousands you are paying him wont allow the police to railroad or coerce you into saying something incriminating whether you are guilty or not. I've always said if I was ever questioned about something serious OR suspected of a crime I'd hire a lawyer right away to make sure I wasnt tricked into admitting something that I didnt do.

I totally agree, a wise decision and as yourself if I were in trouble of any kind I would seek legal representation.  Smart move on the son's part as far as I am concerned.  Of course then again, no charges have been laid, nothing has been released from the Saint John city police, likely no info in the least.  I will be greatly surprised if there is ever clousure to this case as ( in my opinion) much, much power there to so many concerned.  OR Dick Oland's murder is so totally unrelated to family.  He wasn't much a family man as I have read.  This was interesting.  So not a family man..where were his interests??  All the more reason for LE to be so tight lipped, given Mr. Oland's has had so much involvement in hockey and sports in general.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: goNgo on August 09, 2011, 06:48:27 PM
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/08/son-of-murdered-st-john-businessman-hires-top-defence-lawyer/ (http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/08/son-of-murdered-st-john-businessman-hires-top-defence-lawyer/)
Son of murdered Saint John businessman hires top defence lawyer

Quote
More than a month later, no charges have been laid and police have offered little information on the murder other than to say that 69-year-old Mr. Oland was killed by somebody he knew. Saint John Police offered no update on the case Monday.

“We’re just waiting for some forensic follow-up results from the lab that may assist us in the investigation and possibly some follow-up interviews if the need arises,” said police spokeswoman Sgt. Lori Magee.

So far police have focused their investigation on Mr. Oland’s family, searching Dennis Oland’s house and property in Rothesay, a suburb of Saint John, as well as a boat at the nearby Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club that the club’s 2010 directory lists as belonging to Dennis Oland’s wife, Lisa Ferguson.


Quote
Gary Miller, a Fredericton-area lawyer and one of the few in the small province to specialize exclusively in criminal law, confirmed that he has been hired by Dennis Oland, Mr. Oland’s 43-year-old son. Mr. Miller said he was retained “awhile ago” but offered no other comment.


I really feel sorry for the entire Oland family.  These must be incredibly stressful times.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 30, 2011, 04:02:08 PM
I have just recently read an article on the CBC website titled "Richard Olands labs results likely in police hands". The article was dated Aug 25 2011. If someone would like to post it, that would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 30, 2011, 04:25:32 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/08/25/nb-oland-homicide-investigation-551.html


Richard Oland lab results likely in police hands

CBC News

Posted: Aug 25, 2011 6:47 AM AT

Last Updated: Aug 25, 2011 11:45 AM AT
Richard Oland case puts police under scrutinyRichard Oland homicide probe widens to yacht clubAccessibility Links

Beginning of Story Content

Saint John Police remain tight-lipped about the investigation into the death of prominent Saint John businessman Richard Oland almost two months after he was found dead in his office.
 
Richard Oland was found dead in his Saint John office in July.(Canadian Yachting Association)The police have ruled Oland's death a homicide but the public has been given very few other details about the ongoing investigation.
 
Blood and fibres were among the evidence gathered at the crime scene and sent for analysis and it's likely police have at least some of those lab results back.
 
RCMP Insp. Paul Gagnon, who is in charge of the RCMP's forensic services, declined to comment on the Oland investigation.
 
But he said the average turnaround time for biological evidence in a priority case, such as an active homicide investigation, is about 25 days.
 
"If it is a priority case, at that point, we have a system in place where we have a discussion with the investigator, we strategize to see exactly what their needs are and from there, we negotiate a diary date that would work for them, keeping in mind the capacity that we can deliver here at the lab," Gagnon said.
 
Gagnon said the maximum turnaround for evidence to be returned from the lab would be 39 days.
 
The Oland evidence was sent away at least 42 days ago.
 
Few public statements
 
Saint John Police search a wooded area in Rothesay in July.(CBC)The Saint John Police chief, deputy chief and head of major crime could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
 
The Saint John Police have not made many public statements about the investigation.
 
However, there have been searches of the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club, a wooded area and the home of Oland's son, Dennis.
 
The police, however, have not confirmed the searches were related to the homicide investigation.
 
The 69-year-old businessman was found dead in his Saint John office in July.
 
The police have only said he likely knew his killer.
 
The Oland family owns Moosehead Brewery, but Richard Oland left the company in the 1980s. His brother Derek now runs the brewery as its executive chairman.
 
Oland was an accomplished sailor. He won the International Rolex Regatta in St. Thomas in 2010.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 30, 2011, 04:28:56 PM
The turnaround time is awful.  More money should be poured into these labs, more technicians, larger labs, as all criminal cases now look towards DNA.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: 3littlemonkeys on August 30, 2011, 06:39:50 PM
Thanks so much for posting that :) Someday I will purchase a computer. lol (that's the reason for not having the ability)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 03, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
http://aol.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/aolstory/TGAM/20110720/NWOLAND0720ATL

Killing brings name of low-profile Oland back into spotlight
No arrests made yet in the murder of Order of Canada recipient and New Brunswick magnate

By JOSH O'KANE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011


SAINT JOHN -- High-profile murder, low-profile man.Dick Oland's last decade was spent on passions, smaller projects and apparently on investing.

For a man whose death has garnered national attention, the latter part of Richard Oland's life was lived out of the spotlight.

He raced his boat in international competitions, fly-fished with New Brunswick's most powerful people and skied in Colorado. But at an office on Canterbury Street in Saint John's uptown, Mr. Oland laid low.

There he ran the Far End Corp., his personal investment holding company, and Kingshurst Estates, a woodlot and property rental company. Kingshurst Estates managed parcels of land left in the estate of Philip W. Oland, Mr. Oland's grandfather. Less is known about Far End.

At meetings Mr. Oland could be seen monitoring investments on numerous computers. What he had invested in was less clear.

Mr. Oland was killed July 7 in his uptown Saint John office. Nearly two weeks since his death, there have been no charges laid in connection with the case. His family and close friends have kept quiet during the course of the investigation.

Outside of Saint John, Mr. Oland's connection to Moosehead Breweries is usually the first piece of his history that's mentioned. But Moosehead was not his life. He had exited the company by 1981; his last name simply carried the weight of six generations of brewing.

Securities and Exchange Commission documents show that in 2001 Far End held shares in Tengtu International Corp., a company that at one point supplied educational software to as many as 150,000 Chinese schools.

Other business Mr. Oland conducted is more well known. He was lead director on the board of Ganong Bros., Ltd., having been there for 29 years at the time of his death. And he stayed involved in community projects, playing a large role in building a new church for the Our Lady of Perpetual Help congregation in his Saint John suburb of Rothesay.

The church's pastor, Rev. Michael LeBlanc, says Mr. Oland was tireless, taking calls to answer questions even while skiing on vacation in Colorado. "He was always the type who was available," Father LeBlanc said.

He slowed down in the last 10 years. He registered Far End with the Saint John Board of Trade, but was not a highly active member. He had just completed two terms as a director with Enterprise Saint John, and made himself available in a mentorship capacity.

These last 10 years were indeed quiet for Mr. Oland on the Saint John scene. "We never crossed paths," said Jeff Roach, a highly connected entrepreneur who spent the last five years heading an IT-industry networking company.

Mr. Roach, who has lived in Saint John since 2001, has spent a lot of time working the floor at networking events to connect startups with mentors. He understands the city's respect for Mr. Oland, and was surprised they never connected.

"He was enjoying life these last number of years," said David Ganong, chairman of the St. Stephen, N.B.-based chocolate giant Ganong Bros. Ganong, too, is a name that carries weight - the family has contributed to the local economy for generations.

Mr. Ganong fished with Mr. Oland four or five times over the last decade, including once on the Miramichi River just weeks ago.

"It's something that Dick loved to do," Mr. Ganong said, but "I think he was beginning to love his sailboat racing a little bit more than his fly fishing in his most recent years."

Extremely successful in his class, Mr. Oland had just recently been given Canadian Sailing Association's International Sailor Award. His boat was "unique and fast," Mr. Ganong said, and Mr. Oland had plans to have a New Zealander design an even faster one.

Mr. Oland was known within the community for his efforts to bring the 1985 Canada Games to Saint John and for his work in the 1990s as president of the New Brunswick Museum. In 1996, Prince Charles attended the opening of the museum's new downtown exhibition centre and met Mr. Oland. His efforts did not go unseen: In 1998, he was named an Officer of the Order of Canada, like his father before him.

"Anything he undertook," Mr. Ganong said, "he did seriously, and he did his homework extensively."

Thursday, July 21, 2011
CORRECTION
Philip W. Oland was the father of the late Richard Oland. Incorrect information appeared on Wednesday.

   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2011, 04:21:45 PM
All is quiet on the Olandl front.  It's been 4 months now.  Perhaps the solving of this case may take a very long time.
I wonder if it is still be vigorously persued? He was a powerful man and lived, worked and played in powerful circles.
He was well loved and respected in the general population, and i hope for their sake justice will come.
I hope that it doesn't fade into the background, and gently disappear, thus becoming part of Canadian History.


JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 15, 2011, 01:49:45 PM
November  15th, and still nothing - not a peep, not another write-up.   I am concerned, that considering  all of the power and money circles which surrounded his life, it may have been deemed best to let "sleeping dogs lie?"

There may still be time ahead to solve this, and the police  may still consider this to be an early investigation.
Let us hope this is the case.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 15, 2011, 09:18:14 PM
I am surpised that we are not at least getting any updates form the media on this case, or from the Family with the media.  The poor family are likely afraid to say anything as it appears one of the family was under regorous investigation early in the case.  Truly a sad thing.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: GSAR_Mbr on November 22, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/11/22/nb-richard-oland-homicide-search-warrants.html


Saint John police executed at least three other search warrants in connection with the Richard Oland homicide investigation, CBC has learned.
 
In addition to searching the home of the prominent businessman's only son, Dennis Oland, on July 14, police also searched Dennis Oland's vehicle, a 2009 Volkswagen Golf, and his computer, documents filed with the courts state.
 
They also searched a logbook entitled "The Island Camp," owned by Richard Oland's brother-in-law, Jack Connell, on Nov. 15, according to court documents.
 
Richard Oland was found dead on July 7 in his Saint John office. Police confirmed the 69-year-old's death was a homicide and said Oland likely knew his killer, but they have refused to give many more details about the investigation.
 
Oland's son, Dennis, a financial adviser with Wood Gundy in Saint John, was reportedly questioned extensively by police after his father's death.
 
Oland's wife of 46 years, Connie Oland, was also reportedly questioned.
 
Police searched the home, car and computer of Dennis Oland, Richard Oland's only son. Previous searches connected to the family have included Dennis Oland's home on Gondola Point Road in Rothesay, a nearby wooded area around the Bill McGuire Community Centre on July 15, and a seven-metre, pale green-coloured sailboat, called Loki, which is owned by Dennis Oland's wife, Lisa, and Mary Beth Watt, and kept at the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club in Saint John on July 21.
 
Officers spent several hours at all three locations, but declined to say what they were looking for, or even confirm the searches were related to the homicide investigation.
 
CBC is seeking a court order to gain access to the information police used to support obtaining these — and any other — search warrants issued. A two-day hearing has been scheduled for provincial court, starting Nov. 28.
 
Brunswick News, which publishes the Telegraph-Journal, is another party to the application.
 
William Teed will represent Lisa Oland, Mary Beth Watt and Jack Connell in objecting to the media application and advocating for the release of the information to his clients.
 
Gary Miller will also argue for access to the information for his client, Dennis Oland.
 
The Oland family owns Moosehead Brewery, but Richard Oland left the company in the 1980s. His brother Derek now runs the brewery as its executive chairman.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: puzzledinNS on November 22, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
"William Teed will represent Lisa Oland, Mary Beth Watt and Jack Connell in objecting to the media application and advocating for the release of the information to his clients."

Does anyone know who Mary Beth Watt and Jack Connell are? Curious as to why they would object to release of information. I assume this is his daughter Lisa, not the daughter in law? Curious as to why Dennis has retained separate counsel to have the information released to him. Also curious why the other daughter and wife arent objecting..

I have heard rumors from family who are still there, obviously not worth repeating....just mud slinging :)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 22, 2011, 03:12:24 PM
Any one know if the police are still investigating,  or did they just quite after investigating Dennis?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Eyes, GSAR, & puzzledinns, are of interest.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on November 22, 2011, 04:36:39 PM

Brunswick News, which publishes the Telegraph-Journal, is another party to the application.

Interesting, very interesting, in particular the news media the Telegraph Journal and what has been mentioned as " Brunswick News"  So not familiar with this and am unable to locate same on Google.
 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 22, 2011, 04:49:29 PM
JB what do you mean .............are of interest?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Mom on November 22, 2011, 07:08:31 PM
"William Teed will represent Lisa Oland, Mary Beth Watt and Jack Connell in objecting to the media application and advocating for the release of the information to his clients."

Does anyone know who Mary Beth Watt and Jack Connell are? Curious as to why they would object to release of information. I assume this is his daughter Lisa, not the daughter in law? Curious as to why Dennis has retained separate counsel to have the information released to him. Also curious why the other daughter and wife arent objecting..

I have heard rumors from family who are still there, obviously not worth repeating....just mud slinging :)

From the previous article:

Jack Connell is Dick Oland's brother-in-law.  Jack is married to Dick's sister.  Or, Jack is the brother of Dick's wife.  Or, Jack is the husand of one of Jack's sisters.

Mary Beth Watt is friends with Lisa Oland (Dick's daughter-in-law).  Mary Beth and Lisa own a boat together.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2011, 08:23:00 PM
Quote
Officers spent several hours at all three locations, but declined to say what they were looking for, or even confirm the searches were related to the homicide investigation.unquote:
 
Looks like the police might have some persons of interest, even though they decline to say so. JMO
JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: GSAR_Mbr on December 01, 2011, 07:05:14 AM
Quote
Officers spent several hours at all three locations, but declined to say what they were looking for, or even confirm the searches were related to the homicide investigation.unquote:
 
Looks like the police might have some persons of interest, even though they decline to say so. JMO
JB

Im from the area and have officers on that force that are close friends who will NOT touch that subject at all. That right there tells me that the investigation is on going and something is in the works to some degree.


GSAR_Mbr
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on December 01, 2011, 11:09:05 AM
Thanks GSR- I too have a feeling that they are still working on it.  This is a very delicate situation, the powerful families and all, the police may have to tread lightly, however they will come to a conclusion. 

Hopefully an arrest will be made.  i do not envy the detectives in this case.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 01, 2011, 01:29:02 PM
I am sure this is a tuff one for the LE as it appears that the family is some what suspect as well as I am sure they have to view it from all angles.  Hope resolution comes soon so there is some closure and peace I am sure.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on December 15, 2011, 07:30:53 AM
I recently had the opportunity to read the book on the saga of Moosehead as Canada's last major independent brewer* and it's quite interesting how things between the brothers have gone over the years.

Hope for a resolution here. I had just finished the book when they announced the murder so it's definitely piqued my interest.

*For those that think something like Alexander Keith's is a "Canadian" beer, or others you might plug in here, just a note: the guy who oversees Keith's, among other brands, has his office in Brazil. I am a fervent supporter of buying local and your "big beers" are hardly that. Sorry for the beer-stroical sidetrack, but I loves me beer.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on December 15, 2011, 08:04:35 AM
Nish:  I have searched high and low this year for a "throw blanket" Made in Canada........I don't think they exist.

I'm debating opening a store called Made in Canada....but it would be almost impossible.  ;)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on December 15, 2011, 08:13:28 AM
Not to derail this too far, but I'll make some suggestions I feel fair:

Little things can make a difference and making a difference does not always mean it has to have "Made in Canada" on the label.

I am an ardent supporter of MEC for their overall practices. Hell, they've given a project I was deeply involved in some major grant money, so I can say I love them. But as much as I love them I also love supporting the small Mom and Pop guys, which is where I went to buy my new bike. I think it's about making choices, intelligent ones.

I am also a firm supporter of Farm Markets and local merchants over the big box store stuff. Sure, I sacrifice some things from time to time but overall the experience has taught me how to look further and deeper.

Sometimes you pay more. I am fine with that. I am not so dependent on pennies that I can't part with a few more to ensure I get what I want from where I want.

And in the bike store example, if I didn't support him then I wouldn't have him local when I want to have repairs done or buy new gear, yeah?

Beer is just another example of where we can make a difference.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on December 15, 2011, 08:25:13 AM
I can't believe my kids prefer that American watered down beer!!   Can't teach them anything anymore, but I will make sure there is only Canadian Beer in my fridge this Christmas....they either drink it or do without...lol

I do all my shopping in the town closest to me, I never shop in the city. I want to support my local business owners so they can live and raise their kids here in the country side. It's a good life here.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on December 29, 2011, 05:10:36 PM
I would not be surprised if this case is discreetly placed on the back burner, and then quietly dropped.  Just my very honest opinion.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on December 29, 2011, 08:49:34 PM
He travelled in very poweful circles. It would not be easy to investigate.
Just my opinion only.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on December 30, 2011, 09:06:16 AM
http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/news/article/1467586

Police confident Oland killer will be caught
Published Friday December 30th, 2011

SAINT JOHN - Almost six months after Richard Oland was killed in his uptown Saint John office, the case remains shrouded in mystery.

No one has been charged and a judge recently ruled search warrants executed in the case must remain sealed. Despite the silence surrounding the investigation into the July 7 homicide, Saint John Police Force Chief Bill Reid isn't worried.

"I am confident in our collective ability to solve complex crime," he said in an recent interview. "The Oland case is yet another example of a complex crime."

Reid has never revealed the cause of death, whether there is a murder weapon, or whether there are any suspects. And months after the high-profile crime made headlines across the country, he would not reveal how many investigators remain on the case.

As long as the investigation continues, no information will be released, he said.

"These things take time," Reid said. "It does not get settled in an hour on a TV show, because it is a very serious and significant crime. Errors can be made, so if you can pursue this patiently and properly, the outcomes are more predictable. And that's exactly the route we're going now."

Reid, a 33-year veteran of the force, just finished his third year as chief.

He agreed the case involving Oland - a 69-year-old businessman who parted ways with the Moosehead Breweries company his brother runs 30 years ago - is probably one of the most publicized cases in Saint John in years.

Reid said most people realize he won't release details until there is something significant to say.

"It's in the community, people talk about it, it's got national attention and ... while you can appreciate everyone's curiosity, while you can appreciate most people want this to be solved, time and patience are the most important thing here," he said.

"And, obviously, to gather and preserve the evidence that's necessary to come to a successful conclusion, no matter how long that takes, it's going down the right process and following it."

Oland, the son of the late Philip W. Oland of the famous beer-making family, was better known for his business acumen and his passion for sailing than for the family brewing business.

The chief said that aside from a general sense of curiosity, he has not felt public or political pressure to solve the case.

Statistics show, however, the longer a murder goes unsolved, the more difficult it becomes to make an arrest, said Michael Boudreau, a criminologist at St. Thomas University in Fredericton.

"The fact that this case involves a prominent member of the community does place extra pressure upon the police to solve the case, especially when the case has received so much media attention," Boudreau said.

He said it was a bit unusual for Reid to hold a news conference four days after the murder because it placed the spotlight on the police force - an agency that typically investigates just two or three homicides a year.

All eyes were on Reid as he revealed snippets of information on the investigation. He ruled Oland's death a homicide and said Oland likely knew his killer. There were at least 15 police officers working on the case at the time.

In the days following Oland's death, Saint John and the country buzzed with news of the murder. Police swarmed the neighbourhood around the murder scene, picking through garbage cans with white gloves. A police presence remained outside Oland's office for several weeks.

Since then, little has been revealed. But Reid said the investigation is progressing and the public just needs to trust the police force is putting the pieces together.

Reid said he was pleased when provincial court Judge Leslie Jackson ruled Dec. 16 that details around the murder probe are sensitive enough to warrant keeping them hidden from the public for at least another six months. The ruling came after the Telegraph-Journal and the CBC filed a motion in court to unseal the search warrants, which detail the evidence police have collected.

In the weeks after Oland's death, police executed a series of search warrants, including one at the Rothesay home of his only son, Dennis Oland. On July 14, about 20 officers spent more than eight hours at the estate, which has been in the Oland family for generations.

A day later, officers searched a wooded area near the Renforth Wharf, also in Rothesay. And on July 21, police searched a sailboat at the Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club listed as belonging to Dennis Oland's wife Lisa Ferguson. Police divers were seen searching the murky waters around the Millidgeville docks, although it's unknown if anything of note was ever discovered.

Police conducted three other searches, but the details of those are protected under a publication ban. All the warrants and associated documents have been sealed since they were issued.

Reid also declined to discuss the recent retirement of a lead investigator, Const. Rick Russell, a detail that was released in the recent court hearing regarding the search warrants.

He said he agreed with the Crown that the warrants contained information that was "hallmark" to the investigation.

"Obviously, we were there to thwart any efforts to expose that information, if you will, until we make an arrest in this case," Reid said.

"The decision was one we certainly appreciate and, obviously, it's one that helps us do our job better."

Lawyer David Coles, who represented media at the recent hearing, has said provincial rules around sealing orders should be reformed in the name of openness and transparency.

Reid said it's a fair argument, "but before you get to this issue of transparency, you have to be able to investigate."

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on December 30, 2011, 03:35:09 PM
Thank you for the update Trouble.

The Police Chief  gave valid reasons for the silence surrounding the investigation.
I admire him for stepping forward and telling the public the reasons why.

Not all Police Chiefs would take the time to do that.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on December 30, 2011, 03:58:07 PM
Geez, so many levels of law in NB creating a ban in publication of information regarding Dick Oland's murder.  Wow!  Boggles my mind how someone of such stature's murder is kept so under wraps.
Almost as if there is far more influence at work other than the Oland family.
The Oland family has been an institution in NB for years on end..there is also another.
 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on December 31, 2011, 12:37:11 AM
Geez, so many levels of law in NB creating a ban in publication of information regarding Dick Oland's murder.  Wow!  Boggles my mind how someone of such stature's murder is kept so under wraps.
Almost as if there is far more influence at work other than the Oland family.
The Oland family has been an institution in NB for years on end..there is also another.

Funny, I don't get that stature has anything to do with it at all. What, in your opinion, does that have to do with anything? I also don't see what influence you're talking about.

I believe, more and more, we are going to see tighter and tighter lids kept on the sharing of information in cases like these.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on December 31, 2011, 05:52:05 AM

It should perhaps also be noted that it was the local Saint John newspaper together with the CBC who had tried, unsuccessfully, to have the publication ban on the details surrounding the search warrant documents lifted.

The judge made the correct decision.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on December 31, 2011, 07:36:04 AM
It should perhaps also be noted that it was the local Saint John newspaper together with the CBC who had tried, unsuccessfully, to have the publication ban on the details surrounding the search warrant documents lifted.

The judge made the correct decision.

Anytime the CBC is involved in an ATI request, or something like this (pub ban), I cannot help but grin like an idiot at the utter irony of it all.

About release of info: I happen to think that keeping quiet ain't a bad thing. The stats might say that time is the enemy of an investigation, but so are loose lips. I'd like to wait a few years and see how those stats are revised, if at all, because of less publication.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on December 31, 2011, 08:55:32 AM
Sometimes it is in the best interest of the investigation to keep quiet.  Whatever works to catch a killer, I am all for. 
 In a recent murder of a 73 year old man in the GTA, first the Perp's Mom was arrested, then a friend, and then the Cops were waiting for the Perp @ Union Station, when he got off the train. The point is that his name and picture were splashed all over the news, I think because they figured he was going to be running scared with no where to go.  He was a small time punk wanted for murder.
Other Perps have planned and covered their trail pretty good, it is more professional, hence the Cops need to go underground and be secretive, careful and diligent. 
I think that the Cops do profiles on the POI's and act accordingly.  I do see though, that many times they will say cause of death as murder, but not how.
Too many cases thrown out of court on technicalities, the Cops have to be careful. 

In this case, they will get their man (men).   It just might take time, time for someone's conscience to bother them enough.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on December 31, 2011, 11:16:26 AM
Quote from Nish:
Quote
About release of info: I happen to think that keeping quiet ain't a bad thing. The stats might say that time is the enemy of an investigation, but so are loose lips.

Totally agree with this comment Nish, loose lips and leaks sometimes can mess things up for sure.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on December 31, 2011, 02:43:24 PM
Funny, I don't get that stature has anything to do with it at all. What, in your opinion, does that have to do with anything? I also don't see what influence you're talking about.

I believe, more and more, we are going to see tighter and tighter lids kept on the sharing of information in cases like these.

One has to be from the area to understand.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on December 31, 2011, 07:31:17 PM
am not sure why you would thing that people have to be from the area to be capable to understand, I think we all have a pretty wide concept.  The less the police say the less the criminal knows about the investigation and should also prevent gossip to some degree.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on January 01, 2012, 12:07:50 AM
Funny, I don't get that stature has anything to do with it at all. What, in your opinion, does that have to do with anything? I also don't see what influence you're talking about.

I believe, more and more, we are going to see tighter and tighter lids kept on the sharing of information in cases like these.

One has to be from the area to understand.

You've done nothing to explain your stance except to pawn it off to area familiarity. My question stands.

How many levels of law are involved in creating bans on information? Why is this suddenly a bad thing (because it has happened elsewhere)? What's this other institution at work in Saint John/NB?

am not sure why you would thing that people have to be from the area to be capable to understand, I think we all have a pretty wide concept.  The less the police say the less the criminal knows about the investigation and should also prevent gossip to some degree.

Ding, ding, ding.


It should perhaps also be noted that it was the local Saint John newspaper together with the CBC who had tried, unsuccessfully, to have the publication ban on the details surrounding the search warrant documents lifted.

The judge made the correct decision.

The judge probably did but I find more and more that those with community pull or are high profile appear to have more clout than say your average Joe Blow. Then again, perhaps the publication ban surrounding the search warrant documents turned up nothing, so it's cover the butt time? 
Just thinking as there has not been an arrest.

Playing Devil's Advocate, what does stature have anything to do with this other than stature was likely the reason the media sought to publish details? We haven't seen  court challenge for other cases in the general area (Kirwan to name a pretty darned good one) so why the media fervour here? Because of who the man was - that's on the media, not the law.

Nish

Edited: Clarity.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Dulsebunny on January 03, 2012, 10:35:41 AM
There are many places you could conceivably dispose of a murder weapon.
I would not pick the RF bridge. It would be pretty hard to do that unnoticed. I don't know if you can still do it but you used to be able to go down under the bridge. Still the whole bridge thing seems like it would be too much trouble.
I would also be afraid of being seen at either lake.
If I was the perp I would be panicked and in a hurry to get out of Dodge and leave the weapon behind. Apparently, that is not the case, though. To me, that might mean this was planned and plans were also made to get rid of the weapon beforehand. So, with that in mind it is possible this person brought and old towel or blanket or something with them or maybe some sort of bag because the weapon would be soiled and might provide a trail. I'm thinking a bag could work best. Since we don't know for sure what the weapon is it could be any kind of bag-a knap sack, brief case, even a large purse etc. Assuming I was calm and cool, I would then put the bag in my trunk or maybe in the car itself.
Because I know I will dispose of this I already have a place picked out. The best place would depend on whether I had to dispose of it in the dark or not. If it was dark it would have to be a place I was very familiar with and depending on the time it would have to be a place where it is unlikely I will be seen or if I am seen I would have to have a good excuse to be there.
Really, the whole thing hinges on who committed this crime. While we know that some people are being looked at by the media it doesn't mean they were involved at all. That is just the first place police have to look. If a total stranger/acquaintance was involved the whole thing becomes so much more difficult to unravel and these days it seems there are lots out there just killing people for no particular reason or some sort of twisted reason known only to them.
I imagine the police must know a good bit more than they are saying. I expect this will be like so many other cases; we hear nothing until solid charges can be laid.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on January 03, 2012, 01:11:41 PM
Tighter controls by the police on the media seem to be holding up, at least in my city.  We have 47 murders this year, and little is being said by the Police Chief, other than LE are hiring new personnel (67) and he is shifting experienced cops from other departments into homicide to assist with their investigations.

On one case, which we have on this board, the press are being told nothing. And the only way the media can bring it to the public's awareness, is if the family steps up and talks to the press, as the police have been told to be closed mouthed.

Not all 47 homicides  are outstanding.  Arrests were made on most of them within 48 hours.
If my memory serves me right, according to the Police Chief's report to the city, (and it is on the website for the public to see) they are running at 60% in solving them with ensuing arrests made. Other arrests are pending.

While the homicide department have never dropped their investigations in any of these homicides, they require more manpower to do some of the leg work, and they will be getting it.

However, with this homicide department "mum is the word" on any of the cases.

In relation to the murder of Dick Oland, the secrecy is even more pronounced, as I am sure that family and his associates are or were being investigated, and yes, since these are high profile people within the community, all the more reason for LE to protect these reputations.  I mean, even being questioned could cause rampant rumours and possibly tarnish some careers.  Can you possibly imagine the number of lawsuits which would hit the police department by these powerful people?

Therefore,  I have to agree with Am on the point that she made. 

Few search warrants are ever sealed from the public.
Case in point, Russ Williams wife is fighting to have her divorce unpublished.  Many of the records were sealed.
This is almost unheard of.
Money and position does talk !!

JB



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on January 03, 2012, 05:24:19 PM
Am, while I would like to take credit for the choices as to hiding places for the weapon, I can't.  It was Aria who wrote the post. :)
Yes, she or he came up with some good places.  I like the knapsack idea best.
JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on January 03, 2012, 10:58:17 PM
If you were the Un-Sub where might you dispose of a murder weapon in Saint John & environs?

A) Toss from the Reversing Falls Bridge
B) Lily Lake
C) Spruce Lake
D) In the bog across from Fox Farm Rd.
E) Somewhere along Water Street
F) Keep the evidence until evening and bury it away from your property.

When I If I dispose of a murder weapon in SJ I hurl that baby as far as I can into the Kennebecasis from a quiet spot. Between the tide and the river current that water moves a lot. I wouldn't do that at the Renforth Rowing Club or wharf because divers are often in there working on moorings and could find it, as could an ice fisherman reel one in from a shack come winter. If I was thinking I like the Water street idea but having just committed an amateur murder, probably in a fit of rage, I might not have my (few) wits about me. And in June, there might be cruise ship passengers and Vendors about. 

If I carried the thing with me a little further I'd toss it in the sewer treatment lagoon off of Maliseet Drive in Rothesay, particularly if that was handy to home. Few people dive in there (one hopes!).

(comment removed by poster with apologies)

(former) Rothesay Club rat




           
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on January 04, 2012, 09:19:37 AM
My comments made about my city - the absence of any announcements to the media by our Police Chief, supported your statement that the media, in the future will be even further left out of police business.  Not your words exactly.

My comments regarding sealed search warrants and unavailable to the press will become more commonly used in the future. This in the past, was almost unheard of.

Divorce and search warrants are not the same thing.  However, when it comes to keeping things from the public, the method is still the same.  Closed to the media.  Divorce is always published in the papers. RW's wife wants an exception. I did not offer an opinion one way or the other as to her decision to do this - only that this too, is also unheard of. Exceptions are given, and exceptions are made.  Not everyone is treated the same. We do not live in a perfect world, where every i is dotted and every t is crossed.
As to the police keeping a low profile in the investigation of the murder of Dick Oland, reputations are at stake here.
The police would be very discreet.
The police chief did give a recent announcement, posted by Trouble, and I can see why search warrants are sealed.
Who knows who's residences or businesses they have searched.  They would for the most part, be big names.


JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on January 04, 2012, 09:35:40 AM
My comments made about my city - the absence of any announcements to the media by our Police Chief, supported your statement that the media, in the future will be even further left out of police business.  Not your words exactly.

Yes, not my words exactly. And not my statement exactly, either. My statements were more to the effect of the media's side - because I could care less why the cops want to keep something quiet. It just doesn't interest me. It interests others and that's fine, but that side of things was not what I was driving at with the statement.

Quote
My comments regarding sealed search warrants and unavailable to the press will become more commonly used in the future. This in the past, was almost unheard of.

I think this is, at least in part, due to the way information is shared today vice ten years ago, twenty years ago. Read something on Facebook with the proper settings in your account and it pings out to all of your friends. Information is instant and the sharing can be much deeper than people wish it to be.

Again, this is the press making a big deal out of it.

Quote
Divorce and search warrants are not the same thing.  However, when it comes to keeping things from the public, the method is still the same.  Closed to the media.  Divorce is always published in the papers. RW's wife wants an exception. I did not offer an opinion one way or the other as to her decision to do this - only that this too, is also unheard of. Exceptions are given, and exceptions are made.  Not everyone is treated the same. We do not live in a perfect world, where every i is dotted and every t is crossed.

I would offer that the deviant Williams wife was treated differently because first she asked to. She petitioned the court to be heard, had her argument considered, and so it was/is. I don't see a problem with that given what the woman has gone through. Not saying you do or do not, either.

Quote
As to the police keeping a low profile in the investigation of the murder of Dick Oland, reputations are at stake here.
The police would be very discreet.
The police chief did give a recent announcement, posted by Trouble, and I can see why search warrants are sealed.
Who knows who's residences or businesses they have searched.  They would for the most part, be big names.

Just given who the man occupied circles with would mean some big names, yes. And I can see the police being very careful. But another poster, not you, has alluded to this being somewhat nefarious - and I do not see it like that which is why I posted earlier.

I am not attacking you or anyone else, I am trying to carry on rational discourse.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on January 04, 2012, 09:37:39 AM
Or maybe a midnight ride on the Gondola Point ferry. A plausible place to lose a murder weapon...?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on January 04, 2012, 10:48:47 AM
Or maybe a midnight sailboat cruise on Lake Kennebecasis?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on January 04, 2012, 11:57:00 AM
Settle down you two.  :-)

We know that a certain sailboat was part of an extensive search by LE.  Also, a search warrant was issued for a logbook titled "The Island Camp".  Does this term Island Camp mean anything to the people living in this area?  Is it a boat, a camp or some other property?  This logbook, is owned by Dick Oland's wife's brother.  (her maiden name is Connell) 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on January 04, 2012, 02:41:36 PM
A camp on an island in New Brunswick? That should narrow it down! Perhaps a place for fishing or duck hunting? Maybe maintained by someone (management company) who keeps a log of visitors? Visitors who have a standing invitation to use the place even if the owner isn't there? Purely speculative.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on January 04, 2012, 04:37:53 PM
The Miramichi is a long way to go to hide evidence. LE is probably just checking everyone's movements, including RHO in the days and weeks before the murder.

Despite the fact that LE stated RHO knew his murderer, perhaps it was a random individual who saw the light on in the office. If the door was unlocked...  Uptown SJ clears out at night except for a few pubs and clubs most of the nightlife is at Market Square -- there's Thandi's and The Canterbury Lounge, but all the other businesses would be closed at 5 or 6.

With few security cameras and traffic cameras it must be a daunting task for LE. Maybe it was foggy? Presumably nobody saw RHO (except the killer) between 5PM and 9PM-ish the next morning -- 16 hours.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on January 04, 2012, 05:13:49 PM
BaySailor, thank you for your insight on the "Island Camp".  I agree with Aria, if this camp is quite a distance away, LE were most likely tracing RO's and other people's movements leading up to the murder.


Thanks,
HF
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on January 04, 2012, 05:21:52 PM
The Miramichi is a long way to go to hide evidence. LE is probably just checking everyone's movements, including RHO in the days and weeks before the murder.

I think you are quite right here.


Despite the fact that LE stated RHO knew his murderer, perhaps it was a random individual who saw the light on in the office. If the door was unlocked...  Uptown SJ clears out at night except for a few pubs and clubs most of the nightlife is at Market Square -- there's Thandi's and The Canterbury Lounge, but all the other businesses would be closed at 5 or 6.

I says uh uh. Don't forget O'Leary's right around the corner there. During the summer and Xmas holidays it's full of the Rothesay 30-45'ers. If I want to see the old crowd that's where we go. And RHO's office is only a hundred yards away.

I'm still with the LO on this. With Dick's sometimes volatile personality he certainly could tick people off and more than a few people weren't happy with him, or at least by times weren't happy with them. He was kind of a love him or hate him kind of guy, and thus it seems likely to me that the killer knew him well and was angry. The method and circumstances of the murder to me also suggest anger (unless it was a drug addled or psychotic stranger).

R.I.P. Dick



 

FWIW, I knew him for an awful lot of years and he was never less than friendly to me.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: amIam on January 04, 2012, 05:26:44 PM
Despite the fact that LE stated RHO knew his murderer, perhaps it was a random individual who saw the light on in the office. If the door was unlocked...  Uptown SJ clears out at night except for a few pubs and clubs most of the nightlife is at Market Square -- there's Thandi's and The Canterbury Lounge, but all the other businesses would be closed at 5 or 6.

With few security cameras and traffic cameras it must be a daunting task for LE. Maybe it was foggy? Presumably nobody saw RHO (except the killer) between 5PM and 9PM-ish the next morning -- 16 hours.

Aria, thank you, LE did say Dick Oland's knew his murderer..perhaps because there was no forced entry and the door as you say may have been unlocked. Just a thought.
Has or was it ever determined as to Dick Oland's evening..ie, where he dined or with whom?  Seems the time frame of 5pm and 9:am the following morning is somewhat unaccounted for.  Employee's left at 5 pm and he was there, alive and well and at 9 am employee's found him deceased.  The 16 hr gap is a huge time frame.  I gather it was commen- place for him not to arrive home for dinner..just thinking this as home didn't seem to be concerned. 
Sorry, my comment is entirely based on being a member of regular Joe Public, hubby works, comes home..perhaps a bit later than the norm, spouse may end up working late as well..but nevertheless they keep in touch and at some point connect in the evening. 
Perhaps being a member of the wealthy, it's a totally different scenario?
As I say, haven't been there nor done that.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on January 04, 2012, 06:09:24 PM
BaySailor,

I agree that the Chief of Police has read this correctly.  There would be various reasons for LE to make the determination that the killer was known to RO.  One as you noted would be the degree of violence which denotes anger, and I will assume that he wasn't robbed of money, credit cards or valuables from his office. 

They may have identified someone on one of the surveillance cameras, and received an explanation that didn't sit well with them or they have some other reason for focusing their initial attention on a specific person (s).  I think this case is a slam dunk and they need hard evidence to proceed.  Of course, my opinion only.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on January 04, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
BaySailor,

I agree that the Chief of Police has read this correctly.  There would be various reasons for LE to make the determination that the killer was known to RO.  One as you noted would be the degree of violence which denotes anger, and I will assume that he wasn't robbed of money, credit cards or valuables from his office. 

They may have identified someone on one of the surveillance cameras, and received an explanation that didn't sit well with them or they have some other reason for focusing their initial attention on a specific person (s).  I think this case is a slam dunk and they need hard evidence to proceed.  Of course, my opinion only.

I'm with ya, I'm afraid. And if the hard evidence is not forthcoming I suspect the only other avenue to a conviction would be a killer who has remorse get the better of him. 

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the preconceived notion of wealthy. Wealthy in the Maritimes means that your rite of passage is to wear your Burberry until threadbare (20-40 years) and drive the BMW into the ground sans chauffeur. And… Topsiders all year long… without socks of course!

In the 1960s there was a published news report that Rothesay had the highest per capita income in Canada (and that was before the Irving family sought refuge) but you would have never known that by hanging out with the residents. Down-to-earth with that locally-grown Scottish frugality thrown into every aspect of daily life.   

The possible reason for not noticing RHO home overnight might be that the family was cottage-ing elsewhere that week. It’s was just after Canada Day weekend… the best time to be at a seasonal property in NB. Perhaps the Un-Sub knew that – maybe not.

Yes… many might agree that RHO was brusque, driven and yet really cordial.  An enigma.

O’Leary’s… great spot…  pass us all a Moose!


The biggest benefit wealth would have in this case would be two fold: first, the Oland family could easily afford to hire private detectives/ retired detectives etc. to seek out the perpetrator if they felt the local LE had run out of steam. Second, whomever were to be sent to trial, wealth is the great 'un'equalizer when it comes to finding quality and quantity of legal counsel. I doubt connections would play much of a role in the investigation except to pressure police to make an arrest, and I expect that is more likely to come from the Mayor's office and business community than the victim's family.   

The family was in residence that week. My understanding is that of recent RHO's not coming home at night was not entirely unusual but please note that understanding is based on hearsay.       

I went to the bar for the Moose but the lineup was too long. I'll go back in a minute. Wearing my Sebago's. Topsider's, good Lord! 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on January 25, 2012, 10:15:52 AM
My gawd, what's happened with this case? Six months had passed & very little has been revealed. All that the public was told that was to rest assured that the killer was well known to the victim.

Shockingly, the latest press releases have made reference to the 'cone of silence' a double entendre with reference to a 60s TV series about a bungling cop.  :'(   Is there even an official (or unofficial) person of interest as of yet? I believe they were holding evidence of an acquaintance/relative for 3 months & then received permission to hold that evidence for an additional 3 months. Has the time expired on these holdings, if so what does this say or not say about the case? At what point in time is a case like this considered to go cold?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on January 25, 2012, 10:27:26 AM
Quote
At what point in time is a case like this considered to go cold?

There is no set time period involved when referring to a case as being 'cold'. A case isn't considered cold until the investigation has 'hit a wall' and there are absolutely no more leads left to pursue. I wouldn't think this case is cold.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on March 11, 2012, 03:22:59 AM
The info held back is until June 15th, at that point I hope the media who filed FOI's jump in. Do you ever get the feeling the investigators are doing their best to cover up the clues?

No. I get the feeling they are trying to protect the integrity of their case. This is becoming more common a tactic of theirs and I agree wholeheartedly with it.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on March 12, 2012, 09:15:00 AM
An occasional update would be apt.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on March 15, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/Local/2012-03-14/article-2927665/Police-chief-says-investigators-waiting-for-crime-lab-results-in-Oland-case/1

(Here is an update which I found today).jb

Police chief says investigators waiting for crime lab results in Oland casePublished on March 14, 2012

Published on March 14, 2012

SAINT JOHN, N.B. (CP) — The chief of police in Saint John says his department hasn’t provided the public with any updates in its investigation of a prominent New Brunswick businessman last year because it is waiting for test results.

Police Chief Bill Reid says the department is relying on third-party laboratories to analyze items the department has seized during its investigation.

Shortly after Oland’s death, police searched a home in the Rothesay area and a yacht club, but they wouldn’t say whether those searches had anything to do with the businessman’s killing.

Reid has previously said investigators believe the 69-year-old Oland knew the person responsible for his death, which was not part of a robbery or a random act.

Oland was a member of the family that owns Moosehead Breweries Ltd., but he left the company in 1981.

Reid says it takes time to process items police have seized.

“They have to be processed, and then they have to be analyzed,” he said. “That takes a long, long time. We have to be patient with the work that third-parties are doing on our behalf.”

Reid says he doesn’t know how long it will take before the results are available.

“I don’t have a crystal ball to give you that information because we’re relying on a third-party to do work for us and we’re not the only police agency in Canada that’s asking crime labs to do work for them.”
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Our government (Feds and Provincial) should give more funds to expand our crime labs.  The backlog must be significant, and this could give killers time to disappear.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on March 15, 2012, 03:40:26 PM
Reids attitude presides him, I would say.  Bad attitude for a public figure, sarcasm, I dont have a crystal ball etc shows unprofessionalism, wonder if he is capable of the job of solving this case> JMO
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on March 15, 2012, 04:02:50 PM
I took Reids comments as being frustrated with the lack of labs and the length of time it takes to get the results back.
Especially having to use third party labs (private labs) for whatever reason.But I guess there are many other ways of viewing Reids comments.

One thing that does surprise me is that law enforcement are making any announcements to the public at all.
In my earlier posts, I stated that I thought that this would sit on the back burner until the public's memory fades.
Happy that I was sure wrong about that.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on March 16, 2012, 12:32:49 AM
Glad you feel differently than others, JB.

I can't make any solid guesses as to his state of mind, but the quote, considering it was reported in the context of media, appears to me to be a frustrated Chief telling a reporter that no matter how many times they ask the answer's the same, "we wait, just like you wait"

No big conspiracy here.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Trouble445 on June 01, 2012, 07:15:16 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/06/01/nb-oland-homicide-warrants-seal.html

Oland homicide search warrants back before court
Crown seeks to extend sealing order

Crown prosecutors plan to seek a court order that search warrants connected to the Richard Oland homicide investigation remain sealed for another six months.

The current sealing order, imposed by Chief Judge R. Leslie Jackson, is set to expire on June 15.

CBC News and the Telegraph-Journal intend to fight the request to extend the sealing order, arguing that it’s “unacceptable,” said lawyer David Coles.

“In this country judicial transparency is the rule, not the exception. So the Crown has to show exceptional circumstances and at this point, I don’t know what those might be,” he told CBC News.

'This is a major, disturbing event that happened in an intimate community to one of the leaders of that community and there’s a decided public interest in knowing what’s going on.'
—David Coles, lawyer
“I mean this is a major, disturbing event that happened in an intimate community to one of the leaders of that community and there’s a decided public interest in knowing what’s going on.”

Oland, a prominent Saint John businessman, was found dead in his office on July 7.

Saint John Police confirmed the 69-year-old's death was a homicide and said he likely knew his killer, but almost a year later, have refused to give many more details about the investigation.

Warrants are normally public documents, but can be sealed by a judge.

A court date for the hearing has not yet been set.

Order dates back to December
The Crown obtained the current sealing order in December.

Prosecutors successfully argued the five search warrants and production order in question contain "hallmark" forensic information and releasing them could jeopardize the investigation.

The judge said he was satisfied the documents contain information that only the person or persons responsible for Oland's death would know, including details about the condition of his body.

Jackson also said releasing the information could compromise the privacy of numerous persons.

But Coles isn't convinced the Crown can successfully convince the judge again.

"The last time he was persuaded to make the order to continue the sealing order for six months, but the six months is up and here we are again. And I think for our clients and their viewership and audience, that’s troubling," Coles said.

"The people the exhibits were seized from — I mean, they know what’s seized. One is left with who are we protecting the information from other than just the citizens in the community."

Police searched the Rothesay home of Oland's son, Dennis Oland on July 14, a nearby wooded area by the Bill McGuire Community Centre on July 15, and a sailboat co-owned by Dennis Oland's wife, Lisa Oland, moored at the Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club in Saint John on July 21.

Details about other search warrants and a production order executed in the case are now under a publication ban.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on June 28, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
UPDATE:  NB Provincial Court Chief Judge R. Leslie Jackson will hear police officer's testimony regarding the 6 month extension request for search warrant documents to remain sealed at a CLOSED hearing on July 31st. Two lawyers representing members of the Oland family will be allowed to hear the evidence and cross-examine the officer, with the understanding that they will not share any of the information with their clients or anyone else. David Coles, the lawyer representing the media outlets, told reporters outside the courtroom he was satisfied with the judge's decision.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/06/26/nb-oland-search-warrants-sealed-hearing.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on July 07, 2012, 06:42:52 AM
Shared with the Fair Dealings Provisions of the Copyright Act:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/114658-details-of-oland-s-homicide-still-murky-a-year-later

Quote
Details of Oland’s homicide still murky a year later
July 7, 2012 - 4:15am
By KEVIN BISSETT The Canadian Press

A year after Richard Oland was found dead in his Saint John office, details of the investigation into the prominent New Brunswick businessman’s homicide remain shrouded in mystery.

Police have released virtually no updates on their progress since his body was found on July 7 last year, and they have gone to extra lengths to keep the case under wraps by challenging the release of search warrants in court.

Now, a criminology professor at St. Thomas University in Fredericton says it may be time to get an outside police force to help with the investigation.

“Saint John does not have a lot of murders, which is a good thing, but it may also speak to the fact that perhaps the police force isn’t up to solving a murder,” Michael Boudreau said in an interview.

“It shouldn’t matter who the victim is, a murder is a murder, and if they’re not up to that, then maybe it’s time to bring in another police force and have a fresh set of eyes look at this information.”

Oland, 69, was a member of the Oland beer-making family — owners of Moosehead Breweries — although he was no longer involved in the business.

Police have called his death a homicide but have not said how he died or released any other information about their investigation.

They did say that investigators believed Oland knew the person responsible for his death, which was not part of a robbery or a random act.

Police executed a number of search warrants in the weeks following Oland’s death but those documents were sealed by a judge in December following a hearing in which he heard from a city police officer behind closed doors.

That original sealing order expired last month.

At the time, Crown attorney John Henheffer argued in court that the release of the documents could jeopardize the ongoing police investigation.

He told provincial court Judge Leslie Jackson that the case was still being “actively investigated.”

Lawyer David Coles, who represents media organizations opposed to the extension, said the Crown hadn’t produced any evidence to support the request.

Jackson decided the sealing order would remain in place until a full hearing, which is set for July 31 when the judge will hear from the lawyers and a Saint John police officer. The court will not be open to the public or media.

Boudreau said that information will eventually have to be released.

“They have probably a legitimate concern that it would jeopardize the investigation, however, after awhile — and some may argue that point has already been passed — they’re going to have to divulge that information,” he said.

Boudreau said a year is a long time for a case to remain unsolved, and police run the risk of having the trail get cold.

“Statistics do show that the longer a homicide goes unsolved the more difficult it becomes to ever lay a charge,” he said.

“Even if a charge is now laid, and witnesses are to be called, it’s a year later … and it raises many questions about the accuracy of eyewitness testimony.”

Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid was away and unavailable for comment.

But in an interview in March, Reid said the force was still waiting for lab results at that time on items investigators had seized.

My honest to goodness reaction: the press is upset because they cannot release information - big deal. The information will eventually be released, so why do so when it might even have a remote chance of jeopardizing an investigation?

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on July 07, 2012, 12:06:26 PM
I think it's fairly obvious in what direction this is headed once the lab data is completed.  Do We, The Public, really need to know the nitty-gritty of what happen happened on that evening a year ago &/or the details of the subsequent property searches ... before our due time?

Not really & especially so if it hinders/jeopardizes the investigation one iota. LE is only going to get one crack at this & they may well be facing a defendant with a top notch legal team well versed in finding 'exonerating loopholes' in the investigation & evidence. 

Interestingly in this case, what's not being said seems to be more telling &/or interesting than what has been said ...... to date.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on July 07, 2012, 12:42:41 PM
Do We, The Public, really need to know the nitty-gritty of what happen happened on that evening a year ago &/or the details of the subsequent property searches ... before our due time?

Not really & especially so if it hinders/jeopardizes the investigation one iota. LE is only going to get one crack at this & they may well be facing a defendant with a top notch legal team well versed in finding 'exonerating loopholes' in the investigation & evidence. 

Well stated Snowhite. I totally agree.

It is far more important that LE takes the necessary steps to protect the integrity of the investigation than it is for 'we the public' to have our curiousity satisfied. After all, the best outcome would be a solid conviction and some serious jail time for who ever murdered Dick Oland. These days the bar is set very high. LE really has one shot at getting it right.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 08, 2012, 02:44:40 PM
The bar is set very high for any conviction.  Very often DNA, to attach the crime to a killer, is almost expected.
And as it has been said, the prosecution only has one shot at it.
I was impressed by the Chief of Police with his statements. His common sense approach which he stated to the public.
I have confindence in this particular police force.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on July 10, 2012, 06:00:28 PM
http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/114658-details-of-oland-s-homicide-still-murky-a-year-later



Details of Oland’s homicide still murky a year later

 July 7, 2012 - 4:15am By KEVIN BISSETT The Canadian Press

 Saint John Police have failed to release any updates on the murder investigation of Richard OlaSaint John police have failed to release any updates on their murder investigation into the death of Richard Oland. It’s been a year since the prominent New Brunswick businessman was found bludgeoned to death in his Saint John office. (CP /

 A year after Richard Oland was found dead in his Saint John office, details of the investigation into the prominent New Brunswick businessman’s homicide remain shrouded in mystery.
 
Police have released virtually no updates on their progress since his body was found on July 7 last year, and they have gone to extra lengths to keep the case under wraps by challenging the release of search warrants in court.
 
Now, a criminology professor at St. Thomas University in Fredericton says it may be time to get an outside police force to help with the investigation.
 
“Saint John does not have a lot of murders, which is a good thing, but it may also speak to the fact that perhaps the police force isn’t up to solving a murder,” Michael Boudreau said in an interview.
 
“It shouldn’t matter who the victim is, a murder is a murder, and if they’re not up to that, then maybe it’s time to bring in another police force and have a fresh set of eyes look at this information.”
 
Oland, 69, was a member of the Oland beer-making family — owners of Moosehead Breweries — although he was no longer involved in the business.
 
Police have called his death a homicide but have not said how he died or released any other information about their investigation.
 
They did say that investigators believed Oland knew the person responsible for his death, which was not part of a robbery or a random act.
 
Police executed a number of search warrants in the weeks following Oland’s death but those documents were sealed by a judge in December following a hearing in which he heard from a city police officer behind closed doors.
 
That original sealing order expired last month.
 
At the time, Crown attorney John Henheffer argued in court that the release of the documents could jeopardize the ongoing police investigation.
 
He told provincial court Judge Leslie Jackson that the case was still being “actively investigated.”
 
Lawyer David Coles, who represents media organizations opposed to the extension, said the Crown hadn’t produced any evidence to support the request.
 
Jackson decided the sealing order would remain in place until a full hearing, which is set for July 31 when the judge will hear from the lawyers and a Saint John police officer. The court will not be open to the public or media.
 
Boudreau said that information will eventually have to be released.
 
“They have probably a legitimate concern that it would jeopardize the investigation, however, after awhile — and some may argue that point has already been passed — they’re going to have to divulge that information,” he said.
 
Boudreau said a year is a long time for a case to remain unsolved, and police run the risk of having the trail get cold.
 
“Statistics do show that the longer a homicide goes unsolved the more difficult it becomes to ever lay a charge,” he said.
 
“Even if a charge is now laid, and witnesses are to be called, it’s a year later … and it raises many questions about the accuracy of eyewitness testimony.”
 
Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid was away and unavailable for comment.
 
But in an interview in March, Reid said the force was still waiting for lab results at that time on items investigators had seized.


About the Author »


By KEVIN BISSETT The Canadian Press
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on July 20, 2012, 09:22:31 AM
Arrests coming in Oland case: Police Chief


 CTV Atlantic
Published Friday, Jul. 20, 2012 12:01PM ADT

Investigators may be close to a making an arrest in a high-profile New Brunswick murder case.

Police in Saint John say they are closing in on a suspect in the Richard Oland homicide.

The body of the well-known businessman was found in his uptown Saint John office on Jul. 7, 2011. Since then, city police have been under increasing pressure to make an arrest.

Police have remained exceptionally tightlipped about the results of their investigation, but Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid suggested in an interview with CTV News Thursday night that the case has already been cracked.

“We’re very confident that the investigation team has the right suspect in mind as they go and process this investigation,” said Chief Reid. “As I said, we will certainly within a period of time - and I believe a short period of time – have made an arrest.”

Reid says the investigation is focused on one individual.


Read more: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/arrests-coming-in-oland-case-police-chief-1.886640#ixzz21GrUoJ2L






http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/arrests-coming-in-oland-case-police-chief-1.886640 (http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/arrests-coming-in-oland-case-police-chief-1.886640)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on August 01, 2012, 01:39:55 PM
Affidavit in Oland homicide released
Release of search warrants delayed

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News
Posted: Aug 1, 2012 11:02 AM AT
Last Updated: Aug 1, 2012 4:10 PM AT



Quote
The affidavit of the lead investigator in the year-old Richard Oland homicide investigation in New Brunswick has been made public, with the exception of two words that appear three times in the 10-page document.

But the release of nine search warrants and other documents related to the investigation has been delayed for another couple of weeks, at the request of lawyers representing members of the Oland family who want more time to go over the documents and decide what they want to argue to have blacked out.

Chief Judge R. Leslie Jackson told provincial court that the amount of material currently approved for release is "voluminous."

There are at least nine search warrants, nine informations police filed with the court in order to obtain the search warrants, and about nine lists of items seized during those searches.


Quote
Davidson said 378 exhibits have been seized to date. Of those, 243 require forensic analysis.  Lab staff decide which exhibits to accept and no additional exhibits can be submitted until the results from the previously submitted exhibits are reported, he said.

So far, only 35 exhibits have been sent, with the most recent results received on June 26, according to Davidson's affidavit, dated July 6.

"It is difficult to determine how much longer this investigation will continue due to the potential results that will be received from evidence already gathered that has been analyzed or is currently being analyzed," Davidson states.


Quote
Gary Miller, who previously told CBC News he had been hired by Dennis Oland, told the court he needs more time to go through the documents to see what, if any, information he wants to argue to keep blacked out.

"Given the amount of material, it would be fundamentally unfair to force us to proceed this afternoon," he told the judge.

Miller said he and Bill Teed, who is also representing members of the Oland family, only received some of the documents from the Crown about 10 p.m. Tuesday night and two others early Wednesday morning.

Crown prosecutors went over the documents line by line until late Tuesday night, trying to decide what information could be released and what details should be withheld.

"It was a long day," the judge said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/08/01/nb-richard-oland-search-warrant-release.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on August 02, 2012, 05:21:21 AM
I heard this being reported yesterday and happen to agree that there needs to be public oversight, but at what cost? And given that one of the proponents of the release of info has serious issues abiding by ATI requests headed their own way it kind of makes me chuckle - or guffaw at their hypocrisy.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on August 02, 2012, 02:51:52 PM
I must admit that in the beginning I had serious doubts than an arrest would ever be made in this case.  I have now come to believe that one will and likely sooner rather than later.

That being said, I would not wish to see the investigation into this case jeopardized in any way.  Since the public has waited this long for information to be made public I fail to see the big deal in waiting a bit longer.  If and when a trial is held, it will all be made public at that time and that should be sufficient.

I do not believe this is a case in which any other members of the public are at risk so I have never understood why the so-called rush to "need to know".
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on August 03, 2012, 06:40:12 AM
It's nice to see that mindset here, Ruby.

I have never understood what reporting such things would have to do with the general population. Unless there is a threat to the public or it is definitely within the public interest then I have zero issue seeing things kept quiet. There are so many ways for creeps to get away with things these days, we do not need to give them even more by firing info out there for all to see.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: D1 on August 03, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
This case, just taking into account the possible money involved had potential for funny business, lawyer wise mainly. Some of that is still being demonstrated. But all in all I agree this looks very good and well worth waiting out. DNA testing time is more and more showing itself to be more the problem than any other. That needs work so we don't run the risks as were stated...

Quote
Boudreau said a year is a long time for a case to remain unsolved, and police run the risk of having the trail get cold.
 
“Statistics do show that the longer a homicide goes unsolved the more difficult it becomes to ever lay a charge,” he said.
 
“Even if a charge is now laid, and witnesses are to be called, it’s a year later … and it raises many questions about the accuracy of eyewitness testimony.”
 
Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid was away and unavailable for comment.
 
But in an interview in March, Reid said the force was still waiting for lab results at that time on items investigators had seized.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on August 14, 2012, 04:39:43 AM
Shared with the Fair Dealings Provisions of The Copyright Act:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/126460-redacted-documents-in-oland-case-released-to-media-lawyer

Quote
Redacted documents in Oland case released to media lawyer
August 14, 2012 - 3:48am
By MICHAEL TUTTON The Canadian Press

SAINT JOHN, N.B. — A judge is releasing edited versions of search warrants and supporting documents in the homicide investigation of a prominent New Brunswick businessman to a lawyer for two media outlets.

However, Judge R. Leslie Jackson said Monday that the information in the five documents relating to Richard Oland’s slaying are banned from publication for two more days.

The search warrants and other documents have remained sealed in the year since Oland’s death at his Saint John office, but the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal and CBC have applied for release of their contents.

Jackson said in Saint John provincial court that lawyers for the Oland family still have to make arguments to restrict the release of at least four more files.

The judge ruled none of the contents can be published prior to Thursday, when he said media lawyer David Coles is expected to make arguments on behalf of his clients for further disclosure.

Jackson said the first group of files will be sent to Coles to allow him time to review them prior to Thursday’s hearing.

I dunno. The article is stating that the family is involved with arguing againts release of more files, not just the cops or perhaps not the cops at all in this particular instance. For what reason? A litany of potentials, I suppose. I would hazard a guess that they are looking to protect their privacy, but that's just a WAG.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on August 14, 2012, 08:10:34 AM
The lawyer for Dennis O. (Gary Miller) and lawyer William Teed who represents Dennis's wife, Lisa Ferguson, her friend, sailboat co-owner Mary Beth Watt, and Richard O's sister's husband, Jack Connell, have objected from the beginning, to the release of search warrant and file information to the media.  At the same time, these lawyers advocated for this same info to be released to their clients.

Same objections as LE, but for different reasons.  I'm sure LE and the Crown are aware of how "hard" their evidence has to be, knowing that they will face a top-notch criminal Defender.  Of course I am speculating here that G. Miller may be going to court, and that D.O. may be going also.


Edited to add below, Nish's comments, which my post above was meant to address.

"I dunno. The article is stating that the family is involved with arguing againts release of more files, not just the cops or perhaps not the cops at all in this particular instance. For what reason? A litany of potentials, I suppose. I would hazard a guess that they are looking to protect their privacy, but that's just a WAG."

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on August 14, 2012, 08:46:12 AM
The lawyer for Dennis O. (Gary Miller) and lawyer William Teed who represents Dennis's wife, Lisa Ferguson, her friend, sailboat co-owner Mary Beth Watt, and Richard O's sister's husband, Jack Connell, have objected from the beginning, to the release of search warrant and file information to the media.  At the same time, these lawyers advocated for this same info to be released to their clients.

Same objections as LE, but for different reasons.  I'm sure LE and the Crown are aware of how "hard" their evidence has to be, knowing that they will face a top-notch criminal Defender.  Of course I am speculating here that G. Miller may be going to court, and that D.O. may be going also.

 :o

You've got me stumped there!

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 14, 2012, 01:54:03 PM
Very powerful people surrounded Dick Oland.  The cops have to be sure and handle this with care.
They (Le) re up against powerful defence lawyers, and money to pay them!!  They (those surrounding RO, will fight to their dying breath.) with MONEY AND POWER  to BURN!!  They live in a bubble of the untouchables, in that community -
I wish LE all of the best!!


JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on August 15, 2012, 08:04:07 AM
Quote
Dennis is an investment dealer with CIBC Wood Gundy, but is “on leave for the moment,” said a vice-president at the bank.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile)

Don't know if it has any significance but the above employment status/statement, according to a google of the firm's current active investment dealers, appears to no longer be so.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on August 22, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
Excellent and informative article(s)
This is truly a whodunit. Were it no for the terrible fact that a human being was murdered, it would be a fascinating reading in book form.
Thank you Snow White.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on August 23, 2012, 01:27:52 PM
I’m sure LE is just making certain that all the I’s are dotted and the T’s crossed before they proceed.

I grew up very close by and in Grade 8 when we were asked about our version of Utopia (Sir Thomas More) one of my classmates wrote that Rothesay in the summertime was as close to perfect as one could get. Despite the fact that many residents were apparently millionaires (not us) you’d never have known it from the frayed, 40-year-old Burberrys (pre WWII) they wore while out walking their dogs in the year-round fog.

RHO may not have been known as “Mr. Congeniality” at the area yacht clubs but he was certainly able to move mountains and get projects completed, all in the interest of the Port City. His parents, siblings and children are stellar citizens who have always given generously to all causes without judgement. No matter the outcome in this mystery I don’t think we have the right to be judgy-wudgy.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on August 23, 2012, 08:33:00 PM
Hi Aria,

There is no question that the Oland family have been benevolent and pro-active, and are upstanding members of their community.  In fact they are considered members of the Canadian "establishment"..in recognition of their "old money" status and continued success over generations.

In contrast to the "nouveau riche" who feel a need to flaunt their new found wealth, the established rich like the Olands can wear "frayed, 40-year old Burberrys", which they seem to do more often than not.  Their status is secure. 

 It goes without question, that the Olands are powerful, and have been for generations.  They have contacts and influence far beyond Saint John, so we can imagine how almost "untouchable" they are in their "hood".  This is not judging them negatively, it is just acknowleding the reality of their wealth and influence.

So when it comes to an Oland being murdered--by someone he knew--and a family member possibly being a suspect--it is logical thinking to be concerned for the police investigators and  the Crown Attorney who have to put a case together.  That doesn't mean that the Oland family is not cooperating, and it is unfair to suggest that they aren't.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on August 23, 2012, 08:58:44 PM
I’m sure LE is just making certain that all the I’s are dotted and the T’s crossed before they proceed.

Court was told that the majority of the items sent for forensic analysis have yet to be processed. I think there is little LE can do at the moment other than review the forensic analysis summaries as they arrive and hand them off to the Crown to, eventually, decide upon a laying of charges or a Declination of Prosecution.   
   
RHO may not have been known as “Mr. Congeniality” at the area yacht clubs but he was certainly able to move mountains and get projects completed, all in the interest of the Port City. His parents, siblings and children are stellar citizens who have always given generously to all causes without judgement. No matter the outcome in this mystery I don’t think we have the right to be judgy-wudgy.

RHO did a fabulous job running the Canada Games project. The games ran well and on (or near) budget and perhaps even more important, the structural legacy they left for Saint John continues to this day. However, his prickly personality and impulsiveness were, I suspect, the primary obstacles to any other successes in his work life which was less than outstanding, and most likely a significant factor in his death, IMO. When one has the energy, drive, and ability to focus narrowly on a goal one can often achieve those goals, but other things or people are sometimes ignored in the process and everyone loses.   



Quote
Dennis is an investment dealer with CIBC Wood Gundy, but is “on leave for the moment,” said a vice-president at the bank.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile)

Don't know if it has any significance but the above employment status/statement, according to a google of the firm's current active investment dealers, appears to no longer be so.

Dennis has not returned since his father's death.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on August 23, 2012, 09:37:17 PM
There is no question that the Oland family have been benevolent and pro-active, and are upstanding members of their community.  In fact they are considered members of the Canadian "establishment"..in recognition of their "old money" status and continued success over generations.

In contrast to the "nouveau riche" who feel a need to flaunt their new found wealth, the established rich like the Olands can wear "frayed, 40-year old Burberrys", which they seem to do more often than not.  Their status is secure. 

 It goes without question, that the Olands are powerful, and have been for generations.  They have contacts and influence far beyond Saint John, so we can imagine how almost "untouchable" they are in their "hood".  This is not judging them negatively, it is just acknowleding the reality of their wealth and influence.

So when it comes to an Oland being murdered--by someone he knew--and a family member possibly being a suspect--it is logical thinking to be concerned for the police investigators and  the Crown Attorney who have to put a case together.  That doesn't mean that the Oland family is not cooperating, and it is unfair to suggest that they aren't.

The Oland's are not that different. RHO (and his brother) liked fast and expensive cars. He had just bought a new $100k plus BMW 7 series a year or so before his death, and had started competing in world class sailing events in a world class yacht. On the other hand, few of the Oland kids went to private school, most choosing public schools and having 'normal' friends, kids of accountants, or doctors, or the local minister. They could argue over wills or money or even launch a lawsuit to get it. They are pretty normal folk, but with more money than most. There is no conspiracy of the 'establishment' or the wealthy, though they do have the ability to hire a more expensive and larger legal team than most do. And, on the other hand, don't think that the crown isn't going to put their top litigator on this and spend more than they would have had the victim been a King Square bench dweller.             
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on August 24, 2012, 09:09:47 PM


Quote
Dennis is an investment dealer with CIBC Wood Gundy, but is “on leave for the moment,” said a vice-president at the bank.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article2202147/?service=mobile)

Don't know if it has any significance but the above employment status/statement, according to a google of the firm's current active investment dealers, appears to no longer be so.

Quote
Dennis has not returned since his father's death.

His information/contact/profile page was, within the last month or so, removed from the Investment Advisors Listings on said firm's website. May be just a site maintainence glitch ....... or perhaps other.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on September 19, 2012, 09:41:40 AM
This is a long, but interesting read. The article below is an updated version of an earlier article posted by snowhite.


The inscrutable murder of a magnate

 JULIAN SHER
SAINT JOHN, N.B. — The Globe and Mail
Last updated Saturday, Sep. 08 2012, 7:15 PM EDT 


     
There are no cameras or electronic key cards at 52 Canterbury Street, a three-storey red-brick building in the quaint heritage district here, just off the bustling waterfront. There was one simple security rule at the office of Dick Oland, a prominent member of the Moosehead beer family dynasty: The last guy out locked the door.

But some time after 6 p.m. on Wednesday, July 6, somebody walked through the front door, climbed 23 stairs, turned right and went through the white-framed glass doors with the small gold sign that read: Far End Corporation – Mr. Oland’s headquarters for his investment firm and charity work.

The person then killed the 69-year-old businessman and walked back out onto the street.

Robert McFadden, Mr. Oland’s accountant, sailing buddy and confidante, was one of the first people to see the body when he showed up for work the next morning.

“First thing, nine o’clock in the morning, he was found in this room,” he said in his first interview since the murder, his eyes watering and his voice sometimes choking. He declined to describe the crime scene. “I don’t want to get into that,” he said, adding that police told witnesses to keep mum to prevent the case from being compromised.

Police have offered one clue: that Mr. Oland knew his murderer. “I would suggest to you that at the end of this investigation, we’ll find that the perpetrator and the victim knew each other,” Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid said at his first and only news conference on the case, four days after the body was discovered. “There was an acquaintance there.”

Beyond that, authorities and the family have erected a wall of silence around the case. Three months later, grumblings and frustration are emerging about a police investigation that has become embarrassingly long and – so far, at least – disappointingly unfruitful in such a high-profile murder.

Except for a short burst of search warrants early this summer, police have offered no word on their progress – or lack of it.

Bill Farren, a long-time Moosehead employee, city councillor and former vice-chairman of the police commission, said the public’s patience is near the breaking point. “There comes a time when, for me as a citizen and as a councillor, I will have to ask: what have you got and why don’t you have what you’re supposed to have?

“Sooner or later, someone’s going to have to say you owe the community – and the family – an explanation of what happened, what went on.”

The Premier, the lieutenant governor, three cabinet ministers, two federal senators and three local mayors attended Mr. Oland’s funeral, which police videotaped – “like a Montreal mob funeral only this was the heart of the bluebloods,” as one participant put it.

Dick Oland’s great-great-grandmother, Susannah, came from England in 1865 with a family recipe for fine-tasting dark brown ale that gave birth to a brewing dynasty worth millions. But those fortunes were also a recipe for bitter squabbles. Dick and his brother Derek fought continuously until their father finally – and somewhat untraditionally – designated Derek, the younger son, to lead Moosehead.

Effectively ousted from the company by the early 1980s, Dick Oland went into everything from trucking to investments. He helped bring the Canada Summer Games to Saint John, which earned him an Order of Canada. He was praised after his death as a determined if aggressive business leader who gave back much to his community.

All of which had many people scratching their heads when Dick Oland turned up brutally murdered in his office: Who would want him dead?

Dozens of theories circulated on the cocktail circuit. “It’s a whodunit, but nobody really knows who the suspects are,” said Paul Zed, a well-connected lawyer and former MP from Saint John. “That doesn’t happen every day – and certainly not in this genteel community of the rich and famous.”

The police have refused to say how Mr. Oland was killed. “The type of weapon would be hold-back information we would never release,” said spokesperson Sergeant Glenn Hayward. “That’s something that would only be known to the suspect.”

The Toronto Star, citing an unnamed source, reported that Mr. Oland was bludgeoned with an axe. However, Tom Oland, Dick’s cousin and one of many Olands police interrogated after the murder, said he was asked whether he owned a drywall hammer – a small construction tool with an axe-like blade.

“The only weapon they mentioned was a drywall hammer,” said Mr. Oland, speculating, “that’s what must have killed Dick.”

To date, the police have little to show for a murder that took place literally around the corner from their headquarters. A full week passed before they executed their first search warrant.
Two days after the funeral, about 20 police officers with dogs arrived at the home of Dick Oland’s son, Dennis. The estate, nestled on the shores of the Kennebecasis River in the old-money suburb of Rothesay, is a sprawling homestead known as SevenAcres inherited from his grandfather. The police arrived around noon and did not leave until after 8 p.m. – and not before they dug up the front lawn.

The next day, police turned up at a nearby sports community centre and kayak club. They asked people about the schedules and pickup times for Dennis Oland’s children who attended activities there. On July 21, police showed up at the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club just outside Saint John and searched the Loki, a yacht belonging to Dennis Oland’s wife, and the dark waters around the marina.

Those three searches related to Dennis Oland have been the only search warrants police have executed, at least publicly. There is nothing to suggest that the execution of these warrants has advanced the case.

Dennis is an investment dealer with CIBC Wood Gundy, but is “on leave for the moment,” said a vice-president at the bank.

By all accounts, he was, if not close, at least not antagonistic to his father, with whom he had some business dealings. “He’s a quiet guy, very sensible, pleasant and down to earth,” said a former Moosehead manager. “He doesn’t have his father’s aggressive attitude.”

He delivered one of the readings at his father’s funeral on July 12. “He was calm and collected, I could see no agitation at all,” cousin Tom Oland said.

Dennis Oland declined comment for this story, saying only “I don’t think this is a good time to talk.”

He is not the only member of the clan who is not talking.

“I have nothing to say,” Constance Oland, who was married to Mr. Oland for 46 years, said when reached by phone.

Still, the silence and the uncertainty over the slaying come at a price.

“It’s now affecting the family name and their brand,” said a business person in Saint John who knows the Olands.

The Saint John police have urged the community to be patient. “It's not something you see on CSI. This is not glamorous and or sexy,” Chief Reid said back in July. “It’s not a guessing game. We want to be able to prove this case without a shadow of a doubt.”
The lack of any news from the police after three months could be because they are close to making an arrest. “That’s the holdup,” Mr. Farren suggested. “They are looking at a couple of key pieces and they haven’t been able to connect the dots.”

But the force has scant experience handling homicides. According to Statistics Canada, there have never been more than two murders a year in Saint John for the past decade – eight in all since 2000.

“I’ve never seen the death of a prominent citizen investigated the way this one has been investigated,” said Tom Young, the city’s best known radio talk show host until he retired this spring after 40 years. “Basically, they’ve got a body killed in a certain way and nobody they can pin it on. I don’t think it will be solved.”

Back on Canterbury Street, they’ve removed the Far End company sign from the outside door of the building where Dick Oland was murdered.

Upstairs, the framed photographs of his yachting exploits are packed in a carton in the corner.

“The mystery is there,” Mr. McFadden said as he took out a picture from his sailing days with his old friend and business partner. “I don’t know if I’d say it gnaws at me, but it’s an unknown. You’d hope in this day and age that they could solve it.”

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/?service=mobile)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 19, 2012, 12:28:29 PM

 But those fortunes were also a recipe for bitter squabbles. Dick and his brother Derek fought continuously until their father finally – and somewhat untraditionally – designated Derek, the younger son, to lead Moosehead.


http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/?service=mobile)

While loathe to argue with an august publication like the Globe I do feel it necessary to correct the writer's belief that first, Dick was the older brother; he was not, by 4 years or so, and thus Derek was not untraditionally designated as the heir apparent, and second, untraditional just plain ole aint a real word. Leastwise, not one the venerable Globe should use.       
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 19, 2012, 06:21:07 PM
BaySailor--thank you for pointing out the glaring error by Julian Sher (supposedly a Canadian elite investigative journalist and crime writer).

It may seem trivial to some, but it does concern me that, not only did a top-notch journalist use faulty research, he then went on to make a point with it.  This was published in the Globe and Mail--not the Toronto Sun, which is also a concern for the eroding credibility of media, in my opinion.  Those days are long gone. 

HF

PS--"Untraditional ain't a real word".  Neither was "unorganized".  :-)






Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on September 23, 2012, 02:49:49 AM
That is a terrible error the reporter made.
 I have to admit that when I read the article I thought 'well, how did that make for family relations if the younger brother was given the brewery'.....and now for you to correct that LIE, BaySailor...thanks, it is important that it be corrected.  That statement totally portrays the wrong picture.....I hope the Globe recanted it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 05, 2012, 02:44:42 PM
LE do have a suspect and think there is a financial motive for his murder.  Suspect's name is protected by a publication ban.


The National Post
Financial motive behind New Brunswick businessman’s murder: Police documents

 SAINT JOHN, N.B. — Documents released today say police investigating the homicide of New Brunswick businessman Richard Oland believe there was a financial motive behind his death.

A judge released portions of search warrants and supporting documents that were used in the Oland homicide investigation.

The documents say Saint John police have a suspect, but that person’s name is protected by a publication ban.

The documents also say the owner of the building where Oland worked told investigators he was working directly below Oland’s office on July 6, 2011, when he heard six or seven “pounding thumps” emanating from upstairs.

In the weeks after his death, police executed a series of search warrants, including one at the Rothesay home of his only son, Dennis. On July 14, 2011, some 20 officers spent more than eight hours at the estate, which has been in the Oland family for generations.

A day later, officers searched a wooded area near the Renforth Wharf, also in Rothesay. And on July 21, police searched a sailboat at the Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club listed as belonging to Dennis Oland’s wife, Lisa Ferguson. Police divers were seen searching the murky waters around the Millidgeville docks, although it is unknown if anything of value was ever discovered.

Police conducted three other searches, but the details of those are protected under a publication ban. All the warrants and associated documents were sealed after they were issued.

With files from The Canadian Press, October 5, 2012
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on October 05, 2012, 07:58:03 PM
LE do have a suspect and think there is a financial motive for his murder.  Suspect's name is protected by a publication ban.
The National Post
Financial motive behind New Brunswick businessman’s murder: Police documents
SAINT JOHN, N.B. — Documents released today say police investigating the homicide of New Brunswick businessman Richard Oland believe there was a financial motive behind his death. A judge released portions of search warrants and supporting documents that were used in the Oland homicide investigationThe documents say Saint John police have a suspect, but that person’s name is protected by a publication ban. The documents also say the owner of the building where Oland worked told investigators he was working directly below Oland’s office on July 6, 2011, when he heard six or seven “pounding thumps” emanating from upstairs.In the weeks after his death, police executed a series of search warrants, including one at the Rothesay home of his only son, Dennis. On July 14, 2011, some 20 officers spent more than eight hours at the estate, which has been in the Oland family for generations. A day later, officers searched a wooded area near the Renforth Wharf, also in Rothesay. And on July 21, police searched a sailboat at the Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club listed as belonging to Dennis Oland’s wife, Lisa Ferguson. Police divers were seen searching the murky waters around the Millidgeville docks, although it is unknown if anything of value was ever discovered. Police conducted three other searches, but the details of those are protected under a publication ban. All the warrants and associated documents were sealed after they were issuedWith files from The Canadian Press, October 5, 2012

Thanks so much for this update!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 05, 2012, 08:48:38 PM
Why is the suspect's name protected by a publication ban?  Not sure if I have ever heard of that, except for minors.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on October 09, 2012, 03:55:23 PM
Global Maritimes update:

http://www.globalmaritimes.com/more+documents+from+richard+oland+murder+investigation+to+be+released/6442728422/story.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on November 01, 2012, 12:43:57 PM
The press is pressing on for more information regarding the bludgeoning death of well-known Rothesay millionaire:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1280073--n-b-media-want-more-information-on-oland-s-death
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on November 01, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
In March 2012,  Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid stated that they were still awaiting lab results.  ( 8 months after the murder)

On July 20, 2012,  Saint John Police Chief, Bill Reid stated that "We are very confident that (we) have the right suspect in mind".  "As I said, we will certainly within a period of time--and I believe a short period of time, have made an arrest".  (one year after the murder)

On October 30, 2012--the media continues to press for more information.

LE submitted (early in the investigation) 243 exhibits for forensic analysis.  I would think that any relevant analysis has been completed.

I feel that something has gone wrong in this investigation, but there are so many possibilities, it is too soon to tell.

 I haven't read that Chief Bill Reid has agreed to share this case with more experienced homicide investigators.  The media made note that there were only a few murders committed in his jurisdiction, which casts a lack of confidence on his ability to solve this big one. 

I think that we really do need to know who the suspect(s) is, in every case.  Especially if the prime suspect may be innocent.  Leave it to us--we'll hash it out.














Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on November 02, 2012, 06:50:46 AM
Money talks.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on December 03, 2012, 10:55:41 AM
What does it say about the case that no family members have yet to make a plea for the public's assistance for information that may close the case? It just crossed my mind in light of the recent Maple Battalia arrests - both cases happening around the same time, both cases with(most likely) an assailant well known to the victim. However Maple's family, I believe, made several pleas through the media and to the public asking for assistance, an extra clue or any tidbit of information. Perhaps that push is what's needed here ...... ?

I realize that there would/should be an extended period of mourning for events such as this.  However it's now almost a year and a half on and if it's all (possibly) coming done to a few microns of DNA material that may or may not be dectable and which may or may not indict one suspect - then that's a classic case of 'all the eggs in one basket' ...... and one that must be causing some consternation amongst the immediate family members one would think. Plan B ,,,,?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on December 13, 2012, 02:22:50 PM
What does it say about the case that no family members have yet to make a plea for the public's assistance for information that may close the case? It just crossed my mind in light of the recent Maple Battalia arrests - both cases happening around the same time, both cases with(most likely) an assailant well known to the victim. However Maple's family, I believe, made several pleas through the media and to the public asking for assistance, an extra clue or any tidbit of information. Perhaps that push is what's needed here ...... ?

I realize that there would/should be an extended period of mourning for events such as this.  However it's now almost a year and a half on and if it's all (possibly) coming done to a few microns of DNA material that may or may not be dectable and which may or may not indict one suspect - then that's a classic case of 'all the eggs in one basket' ...... and one that must be causing some consternation amongst the immediate family members one would think. Plan B ,,,,?

Is it possible that the family has hired a private investigator to suss out the movements and activities (of anyone potentially involved) that lead up to RHO’s murder and therefore has no need to make pleas to the public for information? Perhaps everyone is keeping silent with the worry that that this tragic event will besmirch the family’s business brand?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on December 13, 2012, 02:44:49 PM
These families are very powerful employers within the community and the Province, and the police will have to get it right the first time only.
Perhaps LE are being super cautious about this.

They may also be fighting an uphill battle with" the politics, which can invade their investigation"
.JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Aria on December 13, 2012, 03:21:06 PM
These families are very powerful employers within the community and the Province, and the police will have to get it right the first time only.
Perhaps LE are being super cautious about this.They may also be fighting an uphill battle with" the politics, which can invade their investigation" .JB

Not to mention their top notch legal team. Nevertheless if LE had conclusive forensic evidence in hand I think an arrest would have been forthcoming by now (17 months later).
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on December 13, 2012, 03:29:52 PM
This is one of those cases where we'll likely know the details when an arrest is made. That's fine by me, if it means a solid conviction and justice. More important they get it right, than worry about whether the public thinks they are moving too slow.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on January 08, 2013, 03:46:25 PM
Police chief defends homicide probe of hospital death

Arrest coming in Oland case in 2013, says Saint John police chief

CBC News Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:39 AM AT Last Updated: Jan 8, 2013 11:21 AM AT


Saint John's police chief is defending the force's handling of two high-profile, unsolved homicide cases in the city.

The Saint John police have been under scrutiny for the lack of charges in the deaths of Saint John businessman Richard Oland in July 2011 and Serena Perry, who was a psychiatric patient at the Saint John Regional Hospital, in February 2012.

The police said they had a suspect in Perry's death last March, but no charges have been laid.

Bill Reid, the city’s police chief, said in an interview with CBC News the Perry investigation has not been straightforward.

“Our public safety communications centre were asked simply to notify the family that there was a death and they couldn’t get a hold of the family,” Reid said.

“Our public safety communication folks were very diligent and said this didn't sound quite right, they notified our members who asked questions, so from the very beginning this wasn't a normal situation for us."

Reid said his members have done their investigation and have sent a report to the Crown prosecutor.

He said the Crown's office has some questions about the forensic pathology and they have asked for further analysis.

A report with that information is expected to be completed in February, Reid said.

Arrest coming in Oland case

Bill Reid, the Saint John police chief, said he expects there will be an arrest in the Richard Oland homicide in 2013. (CBC)The Crown’s office is also seeking more information in the Oland investigation, according to the Saint John police chief.

Reid said the prosecutors have asked for additional details and that is what is causing the delay.

“That [arrest] will certainly be in this year, 2013. There is still a little bit of legwork our members have to do as a result from requests from the Crown,” Reid said.

“We see the end coming here, but at the end of the day we have to do our due diligence and we have to be patient.”

Reid said in July the police were “very, very close” to solving the Oland homicide.

And in August, Const. Stephen Davidson, the lead investigator in the Oland murder probe, said in provincial court he’s confident the Saint John police have the right suspect.

But he said the arrest may “not be a short period of time.”

Davidson was in court as a part of a fight by CBC News and the Telegraph-Journal to have search warrant documents in the Oland case made public.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/01/08/nb-reid-perry-oland-homicide-914.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/01/08/nb-reid-perry-oland-homicide-914.html)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on February 02, 2013, 03:48:23 PM
Excellent article debbiec.  So, they are doing due diligence.  The crown is  requesting a little  more info -
They seem to be tying up the loose ends.
Surely, the killer must be shaken in his or her boots.
Good point Jobo.  Not releasing a name of a suspect may involve a minor.
We should know this year.

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on April 24, 2013, 08:25:32 PM
Wow - I just listened to a radio show this afternoon with a prominent media lawyer and he seemed to suggest that a publicity ban, in this case, may well be more a function of 'who' the main suspect(s) are and thus their subsequent ability for a fair and unbiased trial rather than just standard legal protocol.   

Who cares 'who' it is at this point really, we all know time fades the memory and people/witnesses eventually die off etc.  - and to coin an old adage: 'there is no time like the present.'  On the other hand one of the lawyers representing 'interested parties' has stated that 'there has not been 'one shred of evidence' that anything seized from any interested parties has 'any forensic significance' to case.' *

The above statement is a bit uncertain  - does this mean that lawyers representing 'interested parties' are privy to 'real time' information regarding forensic lab results? If so this rather disconcerting to we, the (longtime) layman followers of this case. Has none of the forensics processed by the labs provided any evidence against the suspect(s) to date - really? Or should the lawyer, representing 'interested parties' have stated more precisely that 'as of  (specific time/date) not one shred of evidence that anything seized from any interested parties has any forensic significance'? 

Perhaps the more legal members of this site can enlighten we, the uninitiated - as to the latency period that exists between forensic lab results and lawyers representing interested parties briefings within Canadian and/or provincial laws.

 I think this is a significant stat because if the sharing of said forensic results are instantaneous - then there may well be some 'issues' with the case.

If, however, there are several days/weeks/months before these briefings - then all may well still be on course for an arrest and subsequent prosecution.



* twitter link removed
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on April 25, 2013, 05:23:14 AM
I was driving through northern NB last week and caught a bit of a news report on the case: cops are certain they know who did it, they are not certain they can prove it. That's why they have not brought charges. I am sure I heard the Saint John police Chief give this reasoning during an interview.

I think protecting a person's right to a fair trial very well could be a reason for all the quiet. We have discussed, at great length, how much harder a job the prosecution has these days - let's not make it harder by having information released that could taint potential jurors or give reason to let someone off on a technicality.

There's another old adage about not having one's cake, and eating it...or something...

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on April 25, 2013, 05:45:04 AM
Oh sure, but I guess what is annoying some of the media lawyers is that anyone who can shell out the $90 for the administrative photocopying fees can own unaltered(less pertinent crime scene details) copies of the search warrants and thus know the interested parties involved .

And so, theoretically, everybody can 'have their cake and eat it too' .... they just can't crow about it or critique how good a pastry it was .... or wasn't.  Fair, unfair, strategic or not ... that's the way it is - at least until the judge makes a ruling on the latest appeal which most likely will come within the next month or so.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Nish on April 25, 2013, 06:56:45 AM
Can't disagree with you there.

I recently made a friend who reports for a major newspaper (yeah, I know, frigged me right up, too) and I found myself asking how he feels about knowing some of the gory details that are not allowed to be reported on. He said that he, "deals with it" in his own way and so I imagine that it does become burdensome for them in a personal sense, not just a professional one. He went on to explain that he believes he still has a separation between job and personal time but that one of the reasons he loves reporting is that he is personally interested in people's stories and it isn't always about some 135 year old trapper who took on a bear with only his hands. Sometimes it's going to court dates and actually having to listen to, but not share, some horrific stuff. To be completely honest, I felt myself sympathizing a bit.

No, I have not been drinking.

Nish
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 02, 2013, 05:09:37 PM
http://globalnews.ca/tag/richard-oland-murder/

PHOTOS OFFER A GLIMPSE OF RICHARD OLAND'S OFFICE (see above link)

and -

http://globalnews.ca/news/507128/olands-unsolved-murder-warrents-public-scrutiny-lawyer/

OLANDS UNSOLVED MURDER WARRENTS PUBLIC SCRUTINY
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on May 04, 2013, 09:04:20 PM
At this late date I am torn, whether the community should finally have media intervention, or whether LE should be allowed more time to arrest their suspect.

As I have said, I suspect something has gone terribly wrong in this case.  Take your pick--police incompetence or lack of experience, lack of hard evidence, pressure from a powerful family, political or social connections pressure, or they fingered the wrong person.

I am torn, because the media could find answers in investigating, and exposing anyone who is either sabotaging this case, or screwing it up.  I usually tend to go with LE and hope they are competent, and wait for them to finish their job.  But this case is more complex as we all know.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on May 05, 2013, 05:55:55 PM
Based on information that has been mentioned through the media or (perhaps and) more importantly what hasn't been mentioned - I'm not so much concerned about if they have a viable suspect(s) but rather how well protected that suspect(s)'s trail/behind may have been covered.  If that makes any sense at all ......
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 05, 2013, 06:15:42 PM
With no witness to the murder and no weapon I suppose the crown just doesnt think they have a winnable case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on May 06, 2013, 09:44:46 AM
I had read somewhere that Mr. Oland was killed with a drywall axe.  Is it certain that the murder weapon is missing, or have LE not divulged this info?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on May 06, 2013, 03:14:58 PM
I was of the understanding that the cause of his death has never been released.  I could stand to be corrected, however, if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on May 06, 2013, 04:19:04 PM
The last information I was able to find in regard to the murder weapon was from the fall of 2012. It stated that it has never been released how Dick Oland died, or what if any, weapon was used. I would think that because everything is still sealed, that information has not been made public.

I was able to find this article in regard to cellphone data being seized.   

Richard Oland murder suspect's cellphone data seized

CBC – Thu, 4 Apr, 2013

Saint John police have the cellphone records of a “viable suspect” in the murder of prominent businessman Richard Oland, newly-released court documents show.

Investigators obtained the records, hoping they might provide some important evidence and possible timelines in the case, the documents made public on Wednesday state.

The man cannot be identified, according to a publication ban.

Police also obtained the cellphone records of Oland and his long-time mistress, Diana Sedlacek, the documents show.

The cellphone records include telephone subscriber information, incoming and outgoing calls, cellular tower data, Global Positioning System data and text messages.

Details about who called or texted whom and when have not released, only the production orders and affidavits officers used to seize the data from the respective cellphone service providers in the weeks and months following Oland’s death.

Oland, 69, was found dead in his uptown Saint John office on July 7, 2011.

There have been no arrests and no charges.

Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid has said Oland was likely killed by someone he knew and that police have a primary suspect in mind. Previously-released court documents suggest a possible financial motive.

The chief has said he expects charges to be laid this year.

CBC News and the Telegraph-Journal have been seeking to have the search warrants related to the investigation made public since December 2011.

The media outlets are also seeking a judicial review of the publication ban on the names of any individuals who were subject to a search or any information that would identify them.

A hearing is expected to be held on April 23.

Search warrants are normally public documents.

Oland’s primary means of communication was through text messaging, his wife of 46 years, Constance Oland, had told police.

The redacted documents suggest police had been unable to locate Oland’s cellphone.

It’s not known whether they have since found the phone.

But on July 9, police did obtain his cellphone records from Rogers Communications in Montreal.

On July 15, police also executed a production order at Telus Communications in Scarborough, Ont., for the cellphone records of the unnamed suspect, covering July 6 and 7.

Among the newly-released information, the man told police on July 7 that he had sent a text message to his sister the night before in error. He had meant to send it to his wife, according to the documents.

What the text message said or when it was sent are not revealed so the relevance to the investigation is unknown.

On Sept. 1, police went back to court, seeking another production order for the suspect’s cellphone records for between July 7 and 15.

It’s unclear from the court documents what new information may have come to light to prompt police to seek the subsequent records.

But the man’s home and car were both searched and tested for evidence before police went back for the second set of records.

Several items were also seized, including the man’s cellphone, the documents state.

“We were advised by Telus Communications that they retain all text message content and therefore believe that July 7th to the 15th 2011 would provide information in relation to this investigation,” Const. Stacy Humphrey state in the sworn information to obtain the production order.

Police also obtained the cell records of Oland’s mistress of eight years, Diana Sedlacek, the newly-released documents show. They executed a production order at Rogers Communications in Montreal on July 15.

Sedlacek had told police she had regular contact with Oland through phone conversations and text messaging.

She contacted him every day at 6:30 p.m. and he always answered, she had said.

On July 6, Sedlacek and Oland had been messaging about a trip they were planning together to Maine.

The last time she heard from him was at 12:01 p.m., advising her of possible times they could go, the documents show.

Previously-released warrants indicated the last outgoing signal from Oland’s phone was received from the cellular tower at 1 Brunswick Square, in Saint John’s uptown on July 6.

The time of the so-called ping has been redacted.

Sedlacek continued to call and text Oland numerous times until she learned of his death the following morning, she said.

The last location of Oland’s phone was near a cellular tower at the Riverside Country Club, located at 2524 Rothesay Rd., in the neighbouring suburb of Rothesay, the documents show.

Again, the time has been blacked out.

A telecommunications analyst told police the radius of the tower is about 0.5 kilometres west, four kilometres north and five to six kilometres east.

On July 9, divers searched the nearby waters of Renforth Wharf to look for “possible evidence,” but were unsuccessful, according to the documents.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/richard-oland-murder-suspects-cellphone-data-seized-091726722.html (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/richard-oland-murder-suspects-cellphone-data-seized-091726722.html)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 07, 2013, 01:00:24 AM
I had read somewhere that Mr. Oland was killed with a drywall axe.  Is it certain that the murder weapon is missing, or have LE not divulged this info?

You and Ruby are both correct. The police have never revealed the manner of death other than to say it was by homicide. The Toronto Star did report that the murder weapon was a drywall axe and a few other news outlets repeated that line, but to my knowledge it has not been corroborated by any other news source nor has it even been mentioned in recent reports.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 17, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/son-is-prime-suspect-in-richard-oland-murder-documents-1.1286730

Son Is Prime Suspect

CTV Atlantic
Published Friday, May 17, 2013 6:41PM ADT
Last Updated Friday, May 17, 2013 7:21PM ADT


A publication ban has been lifted in the Richard Oland murder investigation, revealing that police have named his son as a prime suspect in the case.
 
Police believe Dennis Oland was the last person to see his father before he was found dead in his uptown Saint John office on July 7, 2011.
 
The court documents also reveal that Dennis’ property in Rothesay was the subject of search warrants after his father’s murder. Police seized 57 items in the search of his property.
Until today, a publication ban prevented the media from reporting that information.
 
“For the public, it means they’re now in a position to assess the activities of the police and assess the activities of the judicial officials who issued these warrants in the first place, and the public can take comfort in it being a transparent justice system as it’s supposed to,” says David Coles, a media lawyer in Dartmouth, N.S.
 
The search warrants used by police indicate much of the investigation has focused on Dennis as the prime suspect in the case.
 
In a sworn statement, a Saint John police officer says she believes Dennis Oland was the last person to see his father alive on July 6, 2011.
 
Much of the information, including Dennis Oland’s name, had already been reported by media outlets in the days following the murder, before the publication ban was imposed on the search warrants.
 
“The media observed and broadcast who was searched for a year prior to that decision, so you had the anomalous situation of no problem knowing the details, but now you can’t know what you knew before,” says Coles.
 
Today, Justice William Grant lifted the publication ban, saying there was no threat to the administration of justice in the case that would support the ban.
 
Charges have not been laid in the death of the 69-year-old businessman, though Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid recently indicated that the investigation is nearing an end.
 
There is still one publication ban in place that no one is contesting which covers the evidence about the crime scene and details only the killer could know.
 
That information will remain confidential to prevent false confessions.
 
With files from CTV Atlantic's Mike Cameron


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on May 17, 2013, 06:56:35 PM
Thanks JB for posting this.

The lifting of the publication ban hasn't provided any surprise info. 

Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid recently indicated that the investigation is nearing an end.

I am shaking my head--but I have my fingers crossed. :-)




Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on May 21, 2013, 04:52:37 PM
Quite frankly I fail to see how making this information public is of any particular benefit to anyone.  It certainly does nothing for the case, at least in my view.  Rather, I would think that should there ever be a trial, the defence will have an excellent argument that the individual's right to a fair trial has been prejudiced.  And rightly so, despite some arguments I have seen to the contrary in the local papers.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: D1 on May 21, 2013, 10:43:50 PM
On the other hand, should there never be a trial, (which appears to be the case) should the persuit of justice hit a dead end....

Quote
“For the public, it means they’re now in a position to assess the activities of the police and assess the activities of the judicial officials who issued these warrants in the first place, and the public can take comfort in it being a transparent justice system as it’s supposed to,” says David Coles, a media lawyer in Dartmouth, N.S.

Comfort? I wonder at times when Police and Crown say they are confident they know who did the crime but that there is insufficient evidence to go to trial, what would happen if it were placed in the hands of an impartial jury anyway? What is that evidence they are with holding? I prefer to see everything laid out as opposed any ban especially if there is never going to be any resolution.

The son is prime suspect for a reason. It apparently ends at his feet. If the facts and evidence point elsewhere, that should be heard and pursued. We can ask what bearing power and privilege and influence can have in instances such as this but alas, without a trial we will never know.

Justice has been decided. IMO
Quote
Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid recently indicated that the investigation is nearing an end.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on May 22, 2013, 07:01:49 PM
Quote D1:

"Comfort? I wonder at times when Police and Crown say they are confident they know who did the crime but that there is insufficient evidence to go to trial, what would happen if it were placed in the hands of an impartial jury anyway? What is that evidence they are with holding? I prefer to see everything laid out as opposed any ban especially if there is never going to be any resolution."

Good point D1.  I think LE are always willing to go to trial when they finally present their case to the Crown.  At this stage, one person, the Crown Attorney, decides if the LE investigation is worthy of proceeding.

A competent and impartial CA will make the right decision to proceed to trial, or will determine that there isn't enough evidence to get a conviction.  He/she may also discourage a Police Chief from arresting and charging a certain suspect.

Come to think about it, I should add the Crown Attorney to my list of what could have gone wrong, with the failure to arrest the main suspect in this case.  Just a thought, and not implying that a CA has stonewalled a Chief in this case, because I have absolutely no evidence of this.  But this is a complex case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 22, 2013, 11:42:35 PM
Quote D1:

 I think LE are always willing to go to trial when they finally present their case to the Crown.  At this stage, one person, the Crown Attorney, decides if the LE investigation is worthy of proceeding.

A competent and impartial CA will make the right decision to proceed to trial, or will determine that there isn't enough evidence to get a conviction.  He/she may also discourage a Police Chief from arresting and charging a certain suspect.

Come to think about it, I should add the Crown Attorney to my list of what could have gone wrong, with the failure to arrest the main suspect in this case.  Just a thought, and not implying that a CA has stonewalled a Chief in this case, because I have absolutely no evidence of this.  But this is a complex case.

Well said. I might suggest to you and D1, however, that very often a crown attorney will at best make an educated guess as to whether or not proceeding to trial is appropriate, and different CA's often come to different conclusions around such a decision. They must weigh the possibility of a conviction and any other potential effects a trial might have against the responsibility of protecting the public purse and the impact a trial would have on other cases the CA office has on its plate. As with most government offices these days they have too much to do with too little funding. CA's work long hours for low pay compared to their private brethren. While the warrants suggest that Dennis is struggling finanically his privately funded lawyer has allied with his father's estate's legal team in court actions to this point, and one would suspect that this would continue in a criminal trial. If so, one would expect an expensive and hard fought trial which would have to impair to some degree the ability of the CA's office in such a small city to work it's other cases.

If evidence did point elsewhere, obviously police would be following such leads and any search warrants related to this would most likely have been ferreted out by media by now. It would be silly for LE to release any evidence they do not have to that could be used in a trial down the road, whether it be this year or in 10 years, and there is no public right to know that over rides such considerations unless the public is endangered, something police have stated that is not the case in their estimation here.

The ironic result of Dick's murder is that his estate, at least to date, is funding the legal bills of law enforcement's stated prime suspect.   

         
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 23, 2013, 09:04:27 AM
quote Baysailor:

"The ironic result of Dick's murder is that his estate, at least to date, is funding the legal bills of law enforcement's stated prime suspect." unquote

In my opinion - Dick's lawyer has little choice.  It may appear to be ironic to we pinions, but the old rich will protect themselves, and the family name and businesses  at all costs.  They do not think like we do.

 When a family member gets in "trouble" money is never spared regardless of its source.
It may also give the appearance of the son's innocence re: his deceased Dad's estate footing the bill - at least to the average citizen.
It could also be used to show posthumously his father's support as to his son's innocence. Oddly enough.
jb     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 23, 2013, 11:18:19 PM
quote Baysailor:

"The ironic result of Dick's murder is that his estate, at least to date, is funding the legal bills of law enforcement's stated prime suspect." unquote

In my opinion - Dick's lawyer has little choice.  It may appear to be ironic to we pinions, but the old rich will protect themselves, and the family name and businesses  at all costs.  They do not think like we do.

 When a family member gets in "trouble" money is never spared regardless of its source.
It may also give the appearance of the son's innocence re: his deceased Dad's estate footing the bill - at least to the average citizen.
It could also be used to show posthumously his father's support as to his son's innocence. Oddly enough.
jb     

Dennis' mother (as most mothers, I suspect, would be) is not willing to accept that her son committed murder, which would be enough for any mother to support the legal and moral defence of her son. I can't imagine how anyone could think that a wife and mother using her murdered husbands's estate funds to defend stirps suspected in the murder is a show of posthumous support. It shows a mother's devotion.

It is public knowledge (through court records and reported by the press) that Dick and his sister sued their brother Derek in a very public squabble over dividends from the brewery (or the lack thereof) sometime after their father died. They are typical familes with some members who sometimes argued over money, one or two who drank too often, one or two who were a little pompous or wonderfully humble, some with a great wit and some with, well, not so much. Their kids went to public high schools and then married teachers, tradesmen, normal folks. There are some odd old money rich people but I've met some pretty odd poor folk too, and most families tend to protect themselves and their reputation regardless of their wealth. I just don't think they are that different.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 24, 2013, 01:28:24 PM
Baysailor:  Thanx for setting the record straight with me.  :)

JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: D1 on May 26, 2013, 10:51:55 PM
Can't blame the mother for standing by her offspring. It was compelling just to have the suspect named without charge approval and with him being in the direct line of inheritance, would raise suspicion in any case. The authorities strongly believe they have the right suspect.

There are no other suspects by all indication. There is apparently no new evidence forth coming. They are closing the investigation. imo this is the end of it, charges will never be laid. There is little cause for concern in regard the safety of others. Its a crime for money. That same money defends the suspect. How has that money influenced the charge approval process? How far does that go? Without trial we will never know. We have no rights to any more information than we have been given now. The rest of the evidence remains hidden from view. So as not to spoil chances if charges are to be laid in the future.  It isn't going to happen.. imo.. The killer just gets away with it this way with none the wiser what evidence they actually have.

When were CA's given the power of judge and jury? The Police were confident enough to submit the case. It may be tough going against moneyed lawyers but it would all come out. How often do you hear of a murder trial that does not result in a conviction now a days? What happened to the jury system? Its all decided beforehand and the trial a mere formality?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 27, 2013, 08:48:51 PM
Does anyone have any well sourced knowledge with regards to trace evidence testing wait lists in Canadian forensics labs? Just curious.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: D1 on May 28, 2013, 01:16:39 AM
Its a good question but one that seems to have different answers depending where you are in the country. 3 to 6 months was once thought the minimum based on time counted between crimes and arrests. Amber Kirwan may be the closest in your area for time comparison although it was somewhat complex to determine what they knew and when in that instance given other complications. Out in Ontario in the murder of Sonia Verashin they have apparently dna tested some 700 plus suspects in the last couple of years. Assembly line like processing out there. I am assuming that all the testing has been completed in this case or at least should have been by now, but I am doubting there will be any confirmation forthcoming either way.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 28, 2013, 09:14:47 PM
While the following does not answer your question -Here are stats across Canada - using DNA - matches to crime.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nddb-bndg/stats-eng.htm

Statistics for national DNA Data Bank

Issued: May 15, 2013 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 28, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
I found this info which has a list of RCMP  forensic labs in Canada./JB 

http://www.csfs.ca/eng/general-information/careers

Excerpt:

Six forensic laboratories are operated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (located in Halifax, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, and Vancouver),
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on May 29, 2013, 07:58:14 PM
Thank you both for your responses.

As an aside, part of the federal budget cuts I believe have or will lead to the closure of the Halifax forensics lab and perhaps a few others.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on May 29, 2013, 10:02:19 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/09/13/pol-federal-civil-servants-cuts.html

Baysailor - looks like you are right
The following was an announcement made in 2012.

Excerpt:

In late May, the government announced it planned to close RCMP forensic labs in Halifax, Winnipeg and Regina, consolidating its services in Edmonton, Vancouver and Ottawa.

JB

ps.  when will these changes take place?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on May 30, 2013, 07:09:01 AM
Surely the forensics have been completed by now. Although given the (apparent) close and daily working relationship between victim/suspect - it may well need extra analysis or possible subcontracting. The good news is that time fades the memory and given the complex/family nature of the case - they may well be waiting for a bird to sing a song that doesn't quite jive with previous renditions.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on June 04, 2013, 03:40:57 PM
The Chief of Police has said that an arrest will be made by the end of the year. - He is placing himself on the chopping block, or that his word is worth little, if the right person is not arrested and charged with murder.  That is where he has to be very carelul.  This family are employers within the community.  He may even have relatives working for them.
This a hot potato within the small province.

The Chief of Police could lose his career.  There is much at stake for this man.  Definately.... is.
The same goes for the career of the crown prosecutor.
High stakes here IMO


JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 28, 2013, 04:18:02 AM
This may possibly be of interest to some who may be still fillowing this story.

           http://news.ca.msn.com/local/newbrunswick/new-evidence-in-richard-oland-murder-documents-reveal
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on July 29, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
There's sort of an eerie calm to all this. Other than a few words from Derek Oland, I don't think there's been a family statement in the over 2 years since the murder. What it means, I'm not sure .. but it definitely means something.  I guess maybe that we're accustomed in similar cases (both dramatized and in real life) for some sort of expression of urgency/angst and/or a push from loved ones to get finalization/closure to the ordeal.  Perhaps it's because of whom the prime suspect is or perhaps for a totally different reason. I just don't know .......
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on July 30, 2013, 01:20:29 AM
Who the prime suspect is may have some bearing.  On the other hand, except where business is concerned, they have never come across to me as the type of family who go out of their way to seek publicity.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on July 30, 2013, 08:38:12 AM
True but family business is one thing. The sudden and shocking(?) murder of a loved one .... quite another.  Dick was also often in the news due to his yachting passion, iirc.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: GSAR_Mbr on October 04, 2013, 04:52:41 PM
Jacket with blood on it was seized from Richard Oland's son

Dennis Oland's jacket and attached dry cleaning tag key evidence in homicide probe, documents reveal

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon CBC News

Posted:Oct 04, 2013 1:23 PM AT
Last Updated:Oct 04, 2013 3:03 PM AT



Police consider Dennis Oland, Richard Oland's son, the prime suspect in his father's homicide, court documents show. (Facebook)

A brown suit jacket with blood on it was seized from Dennis Oland’s home by Saint John police in the days following his father’s slaying, newly released court documents reveal.

Richard Oland, 69, a prominent businessman, was found dead in his uptown Saint John office on July 7, 2011.

No charges have been laid, but Saint John police Chief Bill Reid has repeatedly said he expects an arrest before the end of the year.

The redacted documents made public Friday by court order do not contain any information about whose blood it was on Dennis Oland's jacket or how it got there.

But they suggest the jacket — and a dry cleaning tag that was attached — are possibly “the most important part” of the two-year-old investigation.


“Evidence that was obtained from that jacket provided some valuable DNA evidence,” lead investigator Const. Stephen Davidson had testified behind closed doors on July 31, 2012, the documents show.

“New evidence has been revealed from the analysis … of that item,” Davidson had said. "That is our — one of our most important pieces of evidence we have in proving this case and taking it to trial."

The documents also suggest police, as of July 2012, did not have the weapon used to kill Richard Oland in their possession, or even know for certain what the weapon was.

“Well in our opinion, in my opinion, I guess, and what I’ve seen from the autopsy photos, it appears that it’s [redacted],” Davidson had said, referring to the “type of injuries” Oland had sustained and conclusions of a blood spatter expert.

“I wouldn’t say [redacted] although that hasn’t, you know, been determined … But that’s what it appears to be,” Davidson said.


Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. (Canadian Yachting Association)

Police have been unable to locate Richard Oland’s cellphone, which is what divers were searching for at Renforth Wharf the day after his body was discovered, the documents reveal.

A red reusable grocery bag is also a key piece of evidence in the case, according to the documents.

Dennis Oland was seen carrying such a bag into his father’s office on July 6, 2011, and a man matching his description was also seen carrying a similar bag and acting strangely later that day at Renforth wharf.

Additional information from Davidson’s closed-door testimony was made public on Friday after CBC News and Brunswick News applied to have the court transcripts released.

“In my view, many of the proposed redactions are overly broad,” provincial court Chief Judge R. Leslie Jackson stated in his eight-page written decision.

“I would agree that ‘hallmark evidence’ may include other than the examples I set [in my previous decision], but it is not so elastic a concept as to include any information relating to the death of Mr. Oland,” he said.



Witnesses told police Dennis Oland was wearing a brown jacket when he went to visit his father at his office on July 6, 2011. (Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon/CBC)

Previously released warrants reveal police consider Oland’s son Dennis, 45, the prime suspect in the case and suggest a possible financial motive.

Dennis owed his father more than $500,000 and is described as being "on the edge financially."

The documents also reveal police believe Dennis lied to them about what clothes he was wearing the day his father was killed, based on what at least two witnesses have said and video surveillance of him earlier that day.

Dennis, who is the last known person to have seen his father alive, told police he had on a navy blazer, a blue and white collared dress shirt, khaki dress pants and dark brown dress shoes.

But Richard Oland’s long-time secretary, Maureen Adamson, said Dennis was wearing a brown jacket when he went to visit his father at his Far End Corporation business.

Adamson’s husband, who was parked outside the Canterbury Street office, waiting to drive her home, told police he saw someone matching Dennis's description entering Richard Oland's office building wearing a dark brown sports coat with lighter-coloured pants.

Video surveillance of Dennis’s workplace, CIBC Wood Gundy, earlier in the day shows him arriving and leaving wearing a brown sports jacket and khaki pants.

Dennis's wife, Lisa, had told police she did not see him when he got home that day. "He went straight upstairs and got changed," according to previously released documents.

'There has been a pattern of behaviour in terms of the fact that this clothing was brought to the dry cleaner shortly after the murder occurred and for that reason, it becomes very important, if not the most important part of our investigation.'- Const. Sean Rocca, Saint John Police Force
Dennis was unaware of the forensic findings related to his brown jacket, which was seized from the master bedroom men’s closet of his Rothesay home on July 14, 2011, Davidson had testified.

“In fact, other than … the investigational team, even other police officers aren’t aware of this,” he said.

The jacket was one of 57 items seized from Dennis Oland when police executed a search warrant at his Gondola Point Road home one week after his father's body was discovered.

Police were trying to keep information about the jacket and the yellow dry cleaning tag attached to it confidential, arguing it could compromise the investigation.

“At this point I don’t believe it’s well known to our suspect [Dennis] that a main focus of this investigation is the laundry — the fact that we’re focusing on a number of exhibits that were brought to be dry cleaned,” another investigator, Const. Sean Rocca, had testified during a closed-door hearing on July 31, 2012.

At least two other clothing items seized from his closet — a blue and white checkered men’s dress shirt and blue checkered men’s dress shirt — also had dry cleaning tags, the court documents show.


Police seized 57 items from Dennis Oland's Rothesay home a week after his father's body was discovered. (Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon/CBC)

A receipt for VIP Dry Cleaners was also seized from the top right dresser drawer in Dennis’ bedroom.

“We believe that this receipt … speaks to the number of clothing [items] that had dry cleaner tags on them,” Rocca had testified.

“I think that, you know, there has been a pattern of behaviour in terms of the fact that this clothing was brought to the dry cleaner shortly after the murder occurred and for that reason, it becomes very important, if not the most important part of our investigation, and we need to protect that evidence and that those records at the dry cleaners aren’t destroyed or altered,” he said.

“Our intention is to execute a warrant and/or production order at this particular dry cleaners where these items of clothing were brought for dry cleaning within days after Mr. Oland’s murder,” said Rocca.

“And for that reason and because of the involvement with some private investigators in the past, our concern would be two-fold. One, we don’t want [Dennis] to know at this point that our investigation focuses on the dry cleaners — the purposes of any future interrogations — and two, we don’t want anybody to become aware of this evidence that may try to obstruct or interfere with the dry cleaners themselves,” he said.

Private investigators involved
Previously released documents suggested private investigators are somehow involved in the case and that their inquiries may have interfered with the Saint John Police Force’s investigation

It’s unclear who hired them or why, but the documents suggest a witness who was questioned by someone the individual believed to be a police officer became less co-operative with police afterward.

Dennis Oland’s lawyer, Gary Miller, had requested that any reference to private investigators in the court transcripts be redacted.

Miller referred to the private investigators during closed-door proceedings on Aug. 17, 2012.

“I certainly know there were private detectives … investigators looking around and interviewing people,” he had said.

“I don’t know if there were any other investigators involved, but I know that [redacted] and what they were doing and things of that nature as a result of information we had received with regard to people,” Miller had said.

“I, we would not be doing our jobs at this stage quite frankly if we just ignored information that was brought to our attention and said, ‘Oh well, we’ll just wait in case there’s a charge and we’ll cross-examine them at the trial.’ We want that information as soon as we can get it because the fresher it is in a witness's mind, the better it is,” he had said.

Miller later argued “the public would immediately assume that it was his client who had engaged them and perhaps draw unfavourable inferences,” according to the judge’s decision.

But Jackson said he could “conceive of no legal basis” for redaction.

“If the suggestion is that Mr. Miller’s client’s privacy interests, or ‘innocence at stake’ interests are at play, it is clear that some proof of impairment of those interests must be proffered,” he said.

“In this case there is at most a suggestion or inference of prejudice which is, in my view, insufficient to redact those words.”

Log book was at crime scene
Jackson also agreed to release testimony related to a log book, entitled The Island Camp, which was a record of attendance at a cottage.

“I agree with counsel for the media that simply obliterating all testimony on that subject is too broad,” he said.

The documents reveal the log book was at Richard Oland’s office the day he was killed.

Dennis had told someone at his father’s home, whose name has been redacted, that he planned to drop off the log book at the house.

His mother found it in the back hallway of the Rothesay home the following morning.

Dennis told his mother he had been at his father's office to pick up the log book the night before and that he had a good talk with him about family history, according to the documents.

Police had sought to have information related to the log book kept confidential, arguing it could compromise the investigation.

“It also speaks to the specific — you know, the reason why [Dennis] gave for being at the office and it moves into, you know, on the fringes of hallmark evidence of why he was there and what he was doing there and that type of thing,” Const. Rocca had said.

The log book was originally freely given to police, but that consent was later withdrawn and police subsequently obtained a search warrant on Nov. 15, 2011.

It was subjected to forensic testing, but no forensic evidence was found and it was later returned to its owner, whose identity remains redacted.

The judge adjourned his decision on whether to release any additional information from a search warrant and two production orders issued last fall.

“I regret that the process has taken considerably more time than I anticipated,” he stated in a letter to the lawyers representing the media outlets, members of the Oland family and the Crown.

He will deliver a decision by Oct. 25, he said.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 04, 2013, 05:37:59 PM
Thanks for this CBC release GSAR-Mbr.

This part really bothers me, for obvious reasons:

Quote
Private investigators involved
Previously released documents suggested private investigators are somehow involved in the case and that their inquiries may have interfered with the Saint John Police Force’s investigation

It’s unclear who hired them or why, but the documents suggest a witness who was questioned by someone the individual believed to be a police officer became less co-operative with police afterward.

Dennis Oland’s lawyer, Gary Miller, had requested that any reference to private investigators in the court transcripts be redacted. 

There appears to be solid evidence on Dennis (as well as hold back info).  I wonder why he hasn't been arrested.





modified to fix quote.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 11, 2013, 05:43:38 PM
Here is a photo of Dennis leaving the church after his father's funeral.  This is such a sad family tragedy--an emotionally and verbally abusive father--a son who will lose everything.  Well, maybe.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/05/bloodstained-sports-jacket-seized-from-home-of-murdered-businessman-richard-olands-son-court-documents/ (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/05/bloodstained-sports-jacket-seized-from-home-of-murdered-businessman-richard-olands-son-court-documents/)

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2013, 06:05:22 PM
quote HF
 This is such a sad family tragedy--an emotionally and verbally abusive father--a son who will lose everything.  Well, maybe.
unquote:


If he came from an emotionally and verbally abusive  father, as you suggest, then I hope that DO doesn't lose a damn thing, or should he have to lose something, I hope it isn't any more that 2 years at best.

I have no use for parents who do this to their children/and/or adult children.

While RO's good deeds have been recognized by his community, from what I have read on this thread, emotional and verbal abuse was not beneath him,  He was a complicated man, and only his immediate family would know what he was like to live with.

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 11, 2013, 07:04:50 PM
JB--Here is a quote from CTV News.  Another article stated that Dick considered his son lazy.  Keep in mind that we don't have the full story about the dynamics between Dick and Dennis.  Dennis could have been worse than his dad for all we know.


" The affidavit says Const. Sean Rocca obtained a statement from Constance Oland, Richard's wife, who described her husband as "having a very strong and controlling personality."

"He was not physically abusive but was emotionally and verbally abusive," the affidavit says, though it adds, "She does not believe that Dennis Oland would hurt Richard Oland."

Read more: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/richard-oland-son-would-get-into-big-fights-document-says-1.1442947#ixzz2hSnkywoN


I agree with you that any form of abuse from a parent is reprehensible.  But that does not justify taking a life.  The motive here seems to be about money.  Emotional and verbal abuse apparently didn't enter the picture when Dennis ran up a $600,000 debt owing to Dick.  He didn't cut ties with dad over abuse.  And he may have killed him over money, not abuse.  As you said, we really don't know the whole story.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2013, 08:04:45 PM
Neither do we know why the son borrowed the money.  It could have been for a sound business venture, and wasn't blown away foolishly.(?) We just don't know, and we will never know, unless it comes up in trial, I guess.

I am sure this family has its secrets, just as many others do, but perhaps more of them had to be kept, since they were looked upon well by the community, and still are today - as it should be.

Yes, I agree Have Faith,  it is very tragic all the way around.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 12, 2013, 03:53:18 AM
According to the information made available in the newspapers (much of which should never have been released to the public in the first place until if and when there was a trial, at least in my view), Dennis was in danger of losing the family home so that was why Mr. Oland loaned him the money.

This may or may not be so, of course.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 13, 2013, 08:40:34 PM
quote HF
 This is such a sad family tragedy--an emotionally and verbally abusive father--a son who will lose everything.  Well, maybe.
unquote:


If he came from an emotionally and verbally abusive  father, as you suggest, then I hope that DO doesn't lose a damn thing, or should he have to lose something, I hope it isn't any more that 2 years at best.

I have no use for parents who do this to their children/and/or adult children.

While RO's good deeds have been recognized by his community, from what I have read on this thread, emotional and verbal abuse was not beneath him,  He was a complicated man, and only his immediate family would know what he was like to live with.

jb

So then why continue living and/or  working with him if he was so abusive and or such a ****? I mean there is a thing called divorce and adults do have the choice/right/opportunity to walk away from situations that they don't care for, don't they?  But this didn't seem to be the case here.  Was it because there was possibly a potential, large and tasty financial carrot hanging over this family 'relationship' that may have delayed/prevented any normal and/or legal parting of ways?

I mean Dick had been involved in an 8-year long affair and yet he remained married to his wife and Dennis remained employed as co-director of his(Dick's) company, the 'Far End Corporation'.  An 8 year affair with preferred vacation time spent with his mistress in Maine each year?  **** And what was this about Dick having meetings on his last day about said estate (re: carrot) - what were the details of that?

The mind wanders, as the screws slowly turn ......

**edited for language


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 16, 2013, 09:38:41 PM
A year or so ago I posted this (December 2011) before the warrants were unsealed but it was (probably rightly) removed by administrators. I saved the draft and believe it to be still relevant today, and no longer controversial.

"I think that in the reports we hear on this man there are more platitudes than genuities, and the reflection this has on the victim I believe is relevant to the killers motive. Many friends and politicians have commented in general on his professional successes and my opinion too is that his work on the Canada Summer Games resulted in a fabulous unqualified success that the city still benefits from. His other career successes were, um, a little more problematic. Unable to get along with other executives at the family biz his usual tactic was to quit if he didn't get his way, whereupon, after a short delay, he would be asked to come back to work by his father and thus start the same chain again and again, until finally he wasn't invited back. He was a 'my way or the highway' kind of guy, and sometimes his way was reckless and poorly thought out, even irresponsible. His time in the trucking business, a tough business for sure, also resulted in some difficult working relationships, including threats of violence against him. I wouldn't consider that a success either.

The victim entered the realm of top flight yacht racing after his wealthy father died, and it is an expensive sport. He went from racing an inexpensive day racer to a custom designed New Zealand built state of the art racer that required a large crew, some of them paid, and she was shipped around the world with her crew to different elite regattas. This is the multi-millionaires club. He had just put her up for sale and had ordered another, and the financial loss you take on such customized racers when you trade up is substantial.  His cash 'burn rate' looked to be pretty high.

And of course, back on the home front we have a kid who has grown up with an absentee father who can be pretty dismissive if you don't see things his way, and that may have left some scars. He's now wound up in his grandfathers mansion that has to be very expensive to keep up, and his father is burning through his prospective inheritance like there's no tomorrow. With the potential for resentment that can leave, I can understand why the SJPD have executed search warrants on his property and why he might wish to retain a lawyer.

I hope they catch the killer too. If they do and it is a 'close family member', I would have some understanding, perhaps even sympathy, for the man. "


If Dennis killed his father I have some understanding of why, and whether he did or didn't I have sympathy for him because he was raised by an often obnoxious and belittling father who had little time for his children. Or his wife.

As I mentioned in a previous post Dennis moved into his grandfather's estate when it was vacated and I suspect that the home was part of Dick's inheritance and thus was passed on/sold to Dennis, creating a half million dollar debt/mortgage to his father. It would be a very expensive home to keep up, I would think.   

To Snowhite, please remember that 'battered wife syndrome' I think now considered by many professionals to be PTSB, is common in cases of controlling spouses and makes it virtually impossible for one so affected to escape the relationship. Partner that with a son's very tight relationship with his mother and 2 very kind and close sisters (one I do not know but am also told is a good egg) and you can understand Dennis remaining part of the family. While he was listed as a Director, etc. of Far End I would suggest that was for Estate planning purposes and he had no real role in the business. He was a full time employee of CIBC Wood Gundy.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2013, 11:08:57 AM

If Dennis killed his father I have some understanding of why, and whether he did or didn't I have sympathy for him because he was raised by an often obnoxious and belittling father who had little time for his children. Or his wife.

As I mentioned in a previous post Dennis moved into his grandfather's estate when it was vacated and I suspect that the home was part of Dick's inheritance and thus was passed on/sold to Dennis, creating a half million dollar debt/mortgage to his father. It would be a very expensive home to keep up, I would think.   


Not according to the newspaper ......  the son's financial troubles began only with the onset of divorce proceeding in his first marriage. Apparently he didn't have any prenups (regarding the heirloom/ancestral property) and so Dick assisted & stepped in to assist financially & (perhaps) rescue any real estate that might have otherwise got chopped up in the process. Therein lies the debt and the reason for.

Quote
The documents suggest a possible financial motive. Dennis, one of Oland's financial advisers, is described as being "on the edge financially," after having gone through a divorce a few years earlier.

Dennis told police his father had "bankrolled the divorce," paying his $85,000 in legal fees, and bought the family's ancestral home from him, so he wouldn't lose it. Dennis had to repay him the legal fees, as well as the mortgage of between $500,000 and $600,000.

Dennis described his relationship with his father as "great, until his early teen years," according to the documents.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-named-as-prime-suspect-in-father-s-slaying-1.1409837
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 12, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/son-arrested-in-connection-with-2011-murder-of-n-b-businessman-richard-oland-1.1540275
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on November 12, 2013, 07:27:32 PM
It looks like Dennis is going to plead "not guilty".

"In a statement, Richard Oland’s brother, Derek Oland, said his family believes “our nephew and cousin Dennis is, in fact, innocent and we will support him and his family members through the course of whatever legal actions unfold."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/son-arrested-in-connection-with-2011-murder-of-n-b-businessman-richard-oland-1.1540275#ixzz2kU6dJxTc
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 13, 2013, 11:47:00 AM
     http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/dennis-oland-to-face-2nd-degree-murder-charge-in-dads-death
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on November 13, 2013, 07:32:52 PM
I have to admit I am not one bit surprised by this latest news; probably none of us are.   Sadly.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 13, 2013, 08:32:21 PM
This is very tragic. All due to a divorce from the son's first wife.  Why didn't the family push the guy to get a pre-nup if the family estate meant so much to them?? Seems to me, that this family did not discuss much in amongst themselves.
Too late now to rally around the son, in my opinion, as the harm has already been done.

But rally around him, they must.


JB
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on November 14, 2013, 12:06:50 AM
I agree jobo, this is a sad case.  JB ,a prenuptial agreement might have prevented this tragedy.

Derek Oland called the situation “truly a tragedy for all of us who are part of the Oland family.”  Well that goes without saying, for any family experiencing this.  Derek was quoted in my post above that he and the family feel that Dennis is innocent.  I have to consider the bitter rift and animosity, and ensuing family split between Derek and Dick, when their father named Derek as the head of the brewing empire, which caused Dick to leave.  It is well known and documented that these two brothers probably hated each other.  I am glad that Derek is supporting his nephew, but based on his background with Dick, I guess that is not surprising.  This is an emotional case, and certainly Dick comes across as SOB.  I am truly sympathetic to Dennis because of the emotional and verbal abuse that he experienced from his father, but at this point of time, I feel that Dennis killed his father because of MONEY.  Money owed--money not paid back--missed house payments--when it comes down to being cut off from big Daddy--you have to walk away, and give it all up, the life style, the prestige, the big family house.  You move into into a smaller house.  You live within your means based on your income.  You don't kill big Daddy because he just told you he is cutting you off financially.  I think that is what happened when they met at Dick's office.  I can imagine that Dick verbally abused and enraged Dennis. Dennis was living in the "family" home that Dick had to save when Dennis and his first wife divorced.  But the confrontation was all about money.   I feel for Dennis, for all the abuse he endured from his father, but his motive for killing his father was based on the realty of what he was going to lose.
I'm sure that the excellent posters from Saint John know much more than I do.

It is now known that the Crown Attorney is indeed the person who delayed the arrest of Dennis.  Police Chief Bill Reid presented his investigation to the Crown a year ago, but was asked to gather more evidence. (forensic DNA and interviews were mentioned).   Chief Reid seems genuinely grateful for that advice, and has praised his investigators for fulfilling that request.  Chief Bill acted like he had just won the lottery in his press release.  I think he feels that the Crown has a slam-dunk case.

I suspect that the defense will be based on "temporary insanity" due to all the background emotional and verbal abuse.  They can't deny the DNA evidence.  Just a guess.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: eyeswideopen on November 14, 2013, 01:03:52 AM
hmmm I have my doubts about this but some how dont think the son did this.  Who ever did it I dont think it was about money , but I am thinking more like rag.  If Dick was a belittling man he may very well have enraged a person. In my checking through murders , I tend to think an axe is more a womans weapon than a many but just my opinion.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 14, 2013, 04:29:28 AM
You may not be too far off the mark, eyeswideopen, although it does appear that he did lie to the police which was no doubt a mistake.  In any event, he will have the best possible defence money can buy whereas the Crown may be limited in its resources.

I also expect it will be quite difficult to find an unbiased jury given so much information has already been released.  Time will tell how it will all play out.  We shall have to wait and see.

Very difficult times ahead for his mother and I especially feel sorry for his children.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on November 14, 2013, 06:50:55 AM
There is witnesses and video surveillance that shows Dennis was wearing a brown suit jacket.....and apparantly he took that jacket to the cleaners the day after his father's murder.  The Police seized the jacket (with cleaner's tag still on it) and it also has Dad's DNA on it.  He says he was wearing something else that day...but the surveillance and witnesses disagree....That is pretty damning evidence.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on November 14, 2013, 09:05:14 AM
I'm not ready to hang the accused out to the drycleaners as of yet. The family seems convinced(as per recent statements), however,  that there is either some obscure axe/hammer murderer on the loose or that the 'real' murderer is 180 degrees from the direction, leads, videotape and evidence that the police/community have presented/suggested as evidence in the case. They seemed convinced but have been overly mum until yesterday.  Denial or insider knowledge or perhaps just the appropriate stance so as not to delay estate proceedings?  With that in mind - if the estate money is indeed  flowing - is the victim's money being now used in any way to defend the accused/charged?

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 14, 2013, 11:08:17 AM
I doubt he has enough of his own for the type of defence he'll need, Snowhite.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 14, 2013, 01:09:52 PM
His uncle has the money to defend him, so he will not be wanting for funds to defend himself, I would think.  The family name is also at stake here - so they will defend it at all costs imo.

No doubt they are sympathetic to the son, as perhaps they have witnessed the verbal abuse he had to take from his father over the years.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on November 14, 2013, 02:06:04 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-innocent-in-dad-richard-s-murder-family-says-1.2426208

Dennis Oland innocent in dad Richard's murder, family says

Public statement from mother, wife and sisters calls for police to find Richard Oland's real killer

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Nov 14, 2013 9:43 AM AT| Last Updated: Nov 14, 2013 9:43 AM AT


Dennis Oland's immediate family is standing by him as he stands accused of murdering his father, prominent businessman Richard Oland, in Saint John.

Connie Oland  — Dennis's mother and Richard's widow — issued a statement on Wednesday,
declaring her son's innocence.

"We know that he will be found innocent in an objective and fair process in a court of law," the statement from his mother, his wife Lisa Oland, and sisters Lisa Bustin and Jacqueline Walsh states.

They and several other family members were in court on Wednesday when Dennis Oland, 45, was charged with second-degree murder.

Richard Oland was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. He was 69.

"We wish that the police would turn their attention to finding out who is really responsible for Dick's [Richard Oland's] death," the statement says.

"We know that Dennis is innocent. We are devastated that this nightmare for Dennis and for all of us is going to continue," the family says.

The past two years have been the most difficult of their lives, they say, adding they are grateful for all the support they have received from family and friends.

Dennis Oland has not entered a plea.

He remains in custody and will return to court Tuesday to set a date for a preliminary inquiry, which will determine if there's enough evidence to proceed to a trial.

Derek Oland  — Dennis's uncle and Richard's brother — also issued a statement on Tuesday, saying they believe Dennis is innocent, and they will support him and his family through these legal proceedings.
 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 14, 2013, 03:54:01 PM
Unfortunately, jellybean, the "family name" has taken quite a hit already.

It's sad, too, that whatever the outcome of the trial, whether or not he is found guilty, many are always going to believe he is anyway.  None of the remaining lives can ever be quite the same again.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on November 14, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
Unfortunately, jellybean, the "family name" has taken quite a hit already.

It's sad, too, that whatever the outcome of the trial, whether or not he is found guilty, many are always going to believe he is anyway.  None of the remaining lives can ever be quite the same again.

I don't think that's necessarily so. I do think he has some detailed explaining to do though. First of all and  if he isn't guilty then why lie about the color of the jacket he was wearing on that particular day?  What purpose does that serve other than to draw further suspicion from those investigating?  Unless he has early stage Alzheimer's then he should have remembered the color of jacket he was wearing on that day. Also why whisk said colored jacket off to the dry cleaners so quickly after that infamous day - especially if hadn't been wearing it?  Also why  did a similarly colored jacket that he was witnessed/recorded to have been wearing on that day  have blood/dna of the victim on it? Was that the reason for the sudden drycleaning job?  The mind boggles .... but he can certainly clear himself by answering these questions with justifiable reasons imo.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on November 14, 2013, 05:19:45 PM
Not knowing anything about the son, I cannot comment because I don't know anything about his past or anything. The whole Oland family is standing behind Dennis Oland, accused killer. His mother and uncles and all family members absolutely do not believe he committed this crime. Because of the motive of his owing his father a half a million dollars, i suspect they feel that was the motive. So we can only wait until there is a trial, we don't know the evidence they have against him. The court will hear the facts and exhibits and witnesses and we'll have to wait for that. Until then, this man could be innocent of this terrible crime. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on November 14, 2013, 05:43:35 PM
Not knowing anything about the son, I cannot comment because I don't know anything about his past or anything. The whole Oland family is standing behind Dennis Oland, accused killer. His mother and uncles and all family members absolutely do not believe he committed this crime. Because of the motive of his owing his father a half a million dollars, i suspect they feel that was the motive. So we can only wait until there is a trial, we don't know the evidence they have against him. The court will hear the facts and exhibits and witnesses and we'll have to wait for that. Until then, this man could be innocent of this terrible crime. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I agree with your comment capeheart. Only time will tell if Dennis murdered his father. Here he is innocent until proven guilty.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 15, 2013, 03:14:08 AM
True, debbie.  I agree with Cape, too, & I sincerely hope that turns out to be the case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on November 15, 2013, 01:05:23 PM
Yes, it is always good to be reminded that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  I'm glad to see that his mother and sisters are supporting him.  I would be really happy to find out that he is innocent. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on November 15, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
The financial motive angle looks strong and it's not like there hasn't been harsh family battles over control of monies in the past.  Let's hope if he is guilty he gets what's due and if he is innocent then he/ the family gets compensated in some way. My concern/sympathy lies with LE though and the lack of witnesses, the alleged bullying of potential witnesses by private dicks, the family's total denial throughout. Let's hope that the latter few points have  not influenced the investigation to a point where there is no closure to Richard Oland's murder ... when otherwise there just might have been.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on November 15, 2013, 05:21:41 PM
Of course we all hope for a fair and just outcome to this, whatever that may be. We all want to see closure for the Oland family. I believe it will be devastating for the family no matter which way things go. However, we will have to wait and see how this plays out.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on November 18, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
Quote
A bail hearing is underway for Dennis Oland, who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of his father, prominent businessman Richard Oland.

There is a publication ban on the evidence presented during the unexpected hearing, which is being held in court in Saint John.

Oland, 45, who was charged last Wednesday and remanded in custody, was not scheduled to appear in court again until Tuesday to set a date for a preliminary inquiry.

The courtroom is filled to near capacity with several members of the Oland family and other supporters — more than were present during his initial court appearance.

Justice Hugh McLellan is presiding.

Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his uptown office on July 7, 2011.

Dennis Oland, who has been represented by Fredericton lawyer Gary Miller since early on in the case, also had Toronto lawyer Alan Gold acting on his behalf at the bail hearing.

Patrick Wilbur and John Henheffer are the Crown prosecutors.

Oland, who appeared tired and dishevelled during his last court appearance, is listening attentively to the proceedings. He is sporting a dark suit, crisp white shirt and tie.

If the case goes to trial and the Crown proves beyond a reasonable doubt he is guilty, he will face a minimum sentence of life in prison with no chance of parole for 10 years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-bail-hearing-underway-1.2430627

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on November 18, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
Thank you, Snowhite.  I had expected a bail hearing long before this and was surprised when he was remanded back into custody at his prior court appearance.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on June 18, 2014, 11:55:12 AM
Oland preliminary hearing to stretch into October
Crown and defence both say more time is needed

Andrew Cromwell Jun 11, 2014 05:32:15 AM


SAINT JOHN, N.B.- The Dennis Oland preliminary hearing is going to stretch into the fall.

The 46 year old is charged with second degree murder in the death of his father Richard Oland.

The 69 year old well known businessman’s body was found July 7th, 2011 in his uptown office.

The preliminary inquiry got underway May 12th with six weeks set aside but lawyers for both sides said more time was needed.

The New Brunswick Telegraph Journal reports additional dates were added in August and October.

There is a publication ban in place for the  the hearing which will determine whether there is enough evidence to send the case to trial.

http://www.news957.com/2014/06/11/oland-preliminary-hearing-to-stretch-into-october/ (http://www.news957.com/2014/06/11/oland-preliminary-hearing-to-stretch-into-october/)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on June 18, 2014, 06:50:08 PM
Thanks Debbie for being alert in finding and reporting on the preliminary hearing.  I have now found and linked another news article leading up to this point, which is an interesting read.  I always get a kick out of Police Chief Bill Reid. His candor is so rare for LE.  lol 


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-preliminary-inquiry-may-hear-from-60-witnesses-1.2652444 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-preliminary-inquiry-may-hear-from-60-witnesses-1.2652444)


About 60 witnesses could be called to testify at the ongoing preliminary inquiry in the Dennis Oland case, including several Saint John police officers.
Dennis Oland

The preliminary inquiry for Dennis Oland, who is charged with second-degree murder in his father's death, began in Saint John on May 12. (CBC)

​Oland is accused of murdering his father, prominent businessman Richard Oland, nearly three years ago.

The hearing will decide if there's enough evidence to go to trial.

Eleven witnesses have testified to date.

Crown prosecutors say they expect to call as many as 60 witnesses and the defence could decide to call some of its own.

Saint John Police Chief Bill Reid recently told council 52 of his officers have been subpoenaed to appear in a case currently before the courts. That's more than a third of the police force.

"That's huge, it's huge. I can tell you right now there's probably nobody in the province of New Brunswick, any police agency, that would have 52 members going to one particular court case," Reid told reporters outside the council meeting.

Businessman Richard Oland was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. (Canadian Yachting Association)

Reid declined to say if he was referring to the Oland case.

"I’m not going to talk about cases, I’m just talking in general," he said.

Crown prosecutor John Henheffer confirmed a number of officers have been subpoenaed for the Oland hearing, although he declined to say exactly how many.

He did say, however, that not everyone who was subpoenaed will end up actually testifying.

The preliminary inquiry is set to resume on June 9.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on November 13, 2014, 07:39:11 PM
Wow - so much time has passed and nothing much has happened and even less has been printed. Mountains & months of evidence but it seems that that it might take several more months to determine if enough of it can be deemed 'sufficient'.  Fascinating .......
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on December 12, 2014, 10:49:27 AM
Quote
Dennis Oland will stand trial for second-degree murder in the death of his father, prominent New Brunswick businessman Richard Oland, more than three years ago, a judge has decided.

Provincial court Judge Ronald LeBlanc delivered the decision in Saint John on Friday morning, following a preliminary inquiry that stretched out over six months.

Oland, 46, is to enter a plea on Feb. 2.

Oland showed no reaction to the decision. He nodded solemnly, shook the hand of at least one supporter and then quietly left the courtroom.

Oland will continue to live in the community under the same conditions he was released on last year.

Derek Oland, the brother of Richard Oland, issued a statement on Friday afternoon, saying the family stands behind Dennis.

"As we have previously stated, we believe our nephew and cousin is innocent and we will continue to support him and his family members throughout the upcoming legal proceedings," the statement said.

"The evidence and testimony presented during the preliminary inquiry will now be examined at trial where we will wait for the judicial process to run its course."

Oland's statement said the family won't be offering any further statements.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-ordered-to-stand-trial-for-2nd-degree-murder-1.2870638

**edited to remove twitter link







Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on February 26, 2015, 12:00:07 PM
Murder trial for Dennis Oland, charged in father's death, begins in September


The Canadian Press
 February 2, 2015 10:37 AM   


SAINT JOHN, N.B. - The judge presiding over the murder case against Dennis Oland says up to 1,500 people may be called for jury selection when the trial begins later this year.

Judge John Walsh of the Court of Queen's Bench in New Brunswick has set aside three months for the trial of Oland, who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of his father Richard.

Jury selection is scheduled to begin Sept. 8 and the trial will run from Sept. 16 until Dec. 18.

In December, a provincial court judge ordered Dennis Oland to stand trial following a preliminary inquiry that lasted 37 days and heard from 42 witnesses.

At the time, family members issued a statement saying they know Dennis is innocent and were stunned that the case would go to trial.

Richard Oland was an officer of the Order of Canada and part of the well-known Maritime family that owns Moosehead Breweries.

The 69-year-old businessman was found dead in his office in Saint John on July 7, 2011.

Saint John police Chief Bill Reid said in November 2013 that Richard Oland died after repeated blows, but he wouldn't elaborate.

http://www.courierislander.com/murder-trial-for-dennis-oland-charged-in-father-s-death-begins-in-september-1.1749894 (http://www.courierislander.com/murder-trial-for-dennis-oland-charged-in-father-s-death-begins-in-september-1.1749894)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on August 12, 2015, 02:53:07 PM
Quote
The lead Crown prosecutor in the Dennis Oland murder trial has been replaced, just weeks before the jury trial is scheduled to start, CBC News has learned.

John Henheffer has been handling the file since at least November 2013, when Oland was charged with second-degree murder in the July 2011 death of his father, prominent Saint John businessman Richard Oland.

But Henheffer has had to step aside for personal health reasons, Department of Justice officials said in an emailed statement late Wednesday afternoon.

Retired Crown prosecutor ​Paul (P.J.) Veniot has taken over, as of Tuesday.

"We can confirm that P.J. Veniot has joined the prosecution's team for the trial of R v Dennis Oland," the statement said.
"The trial will continue as scheduled."

Jury selection is scheduled to begin on Sept. 8 at Harbour Station. About 3,000 people have received summonses — 10 times the normal jury panel.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-sees-new-crown-prosecutor-appointed-1.3188298
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on September 10, 2015, 01:52:15 PM
I do believe the trial for Richard Oland's killer, which is his son, has started this week. Will try and keep an update on here as thing progress.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 11, 2015, 03:06:50 PM
The jury selection was completed this week, Cape.  The actual trial should be able to begin early next week.  From what they say, it's expected to last about two months.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 11, 2015, 03:08:42 PM
I should have added, for those who may not be aware, Dennis did plead "Not Guilty".
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on September 12, 2015, 10:10:18 AM
Thanks RubyRose for the latest info. I did hear something about it on TV. What is the feeling up there, do the people feel that the right person is going to court or is there any other rumors about this case, just wondering???
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 12, 2015, 12:04:48 PM
Thanks RubyRose for the latest info. I did hear something about it on TV. What is the feeling up there, do the people feel that the right person is going to court or is there any other rumors about this case, just wondering???

Excellent question Capeheart.  This family's name is huge in the Maritimes, and to some extent across Canada. 

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 12, 2015, 05:44:48 PM

It would normally be a huge concern, when the lead Crown prosecutor in this case (for the past two years) has to "abandon ship" for health reasons, just weeks before the trial is set to begin.  I wish him well and recovery to good health.

I am impressed with the retired prosecutor who has been asked to step in as a replacement.   His record denotes that he determines justice, in spite of a person being related to a powerful public figure, and in spite of an actual "directive" to drop a case, and in spite of a request from LE to withdraw the charges. (the guy ended up pleading guilty).  It isn't an easy route to maintain integrity under this type of pressure.

This man obviously cannot be bought, or unduly coerced by the powers that exist.  I hope that the judge has the same moral integrity to withstand any influence that might impede the rightful outcome of this trial.  I hope the same for the jury, who have the burden to be ethical and wise in reaching their verdict.  Dennis Oland deserves a fair trial--and Dick Oland deserves it also.


Thanks to Snowhite for her link Aug. 12


"Veteran prosecutor

Veniot, the former senior regional Crown prosecutor for northeastern New Brunswick, has handled other high-profile cases over the years, including the murder trial of Justin Bourque, who went on a shooting rampage in Moncton in June 2014, killing three Mounties and wounding two others.
Retired Crown prosecutor Paul (P.J.) Veniot

Retired Crown prosecutor Paul (P.J.) Veniot has joined the prosecution's team for Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial. (CBC)

Bourque, who pleaded guilty to three counts of first-degree murder and two counts of attempted murder, was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 75 years — the longest sentence in Canadian history, and the harshest since the death penalty was abolished.

Veniot was also the Crown prosecutor who recommended fisheries officers lay charges in 2011 against the brother of then-deputy premier Paul Robichaud, despite a directive that the case be dropped.

Veniot testified he also refused a request from the head of enforcement that he find a way to withdraw the charges against Donat Robichaud after they'd been laid.

Robichaud wound up pleading guilty in April 2012 to one charge of violating the Aquaculture Act at his oyster farm, was ordered to pay a $480 fine and a 20 per cent victim surcharge.

Veniot also served as counsel to the coroner during the inquest into the death of Serena Perry.

Perry, 22, was an involuntary psychiatric patient at the Saint John Regional Hospital when her body was discovered on Feb. 14, 2012, in the hospital's amphitheatre, which is located in another section of the facility.

No charges were ever laid in the case, but the coroner's jury deemed her death a homicide and made 11 recommendations to help prevent other similar deaths.

Among them was that New Brunswick follow the lead of several other provinces and introduce community treatment order legislation."
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 13, 2015, 04:54:42 AM
Thanks RubyRose for the latest info. I did hear something about it on TV. What is the feeling up there, do the people feel that the right person is going to court or is there any other rumors about this case, just wondering???

Most people that I know appear to be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, Cape, at least for now.  We shall have to see how it all unfolds.  There are certainly some very difficult days ahead for the family whatever the outcome.  I especially sympathize with his mother and his children.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 16, 2015, 02:47:55 PM
Richard Oland died from 40 blows to head, murder trial hears

Blood with victim's DNA profile found on jacket of son, Dennis Oland, who is accused in 2011 death

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Sep 16, 2015 1:09 PM AT| Last Updated: Sep 16, 2015 2:58 PM AT


Richard Oland died after suffering more than 46 "sharp and blunt force" blows to his body, 40 of them to his head, the jury at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial in Saint John heard on Wednesday.

The prominent businessman was killed "in a rage," lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot suggested in his opening remarks, noting the injuries were "way beyond" what was required to cause his death.

The body of the 69-year-old was discovered in his uptown investment firm office "face down in a pool of blood" on July 7, 2011.

Dennis Oland, 46, his only son, had visited him there the night before and was the last known person to see him alive, said Veniot.

The accused, whose relationship with his father was "more like a client and banker," was "on the edge financially" at the time, said Veniot.

He was two months behind in making interest payments on a $500,000 loan from his father, while his credit card and line of credit were both already "maxed out," said Veniot.

"This was the burden carried by Dennis Oland when he went to visit his father," he said, outlining the prosecution's case for the jury.

Despite a lengthy police investigation, no murder weapon, or weapons were ever found, said Veniot.

The only thing missing from Richard Oland's office was his iPhone. His Rolex watch was still on his wrist, his wallet was still there, along with the keys to his BMW, which was parked outside, said Veniot, suggesting that robbery was not the motive.

There was also no signs of a break-in, he said.

Richard Oland's investments were worth about $37 million at the time of his death, the court heard.

Veniot said Dennis Oland was interviewed by police on July 7 and told them he had been wearing a navy jacket when he visited his father, but security surveillance showed he was actually wearing a brown sports jacket.

The next morning, several items of Oland's clothing were dropped off at a drycleaner, including two sports jackets.

On July 14, when police executed a search warrant at Oland's home on Gondola Point Road in Rothesay, a brown jacket with a drycleaning tag still attached was seized from his bedroom closet.

The jacket had four areas of blood on it and the DNA profile matched that of Richard Oland, said Veniot.

"Anyone is capable of doing bad things," stressed Veniot as Dennis Oland and members of his extended family looked on.

"Difficult financial circumstances might point one towards a path one might never expect."

1 juror unable to serve

Fourteen jurors and two alternates were selected instead of the normal 12-member panel because the trial is scheduled to last 65 days, increasing the chances someone will get sick or be unable to serve for some other reason.

On Wednesday, just as the high-profile trial began, Justice John Walsh informed the jury that one of the members, identified only as Juror No. 4, was unable to serve.

One of the alternates has now been deemed a juror and the other alternate, who was no longer needed, was discharged by the judge.

The remaining 14 jurors will sit through all of the evidence and arguments, but only 12 of them will deliberate and give a verdict, said Walsh.

The extras will be eliminated by a random draw, he said. "Nobody knows who will be the final 12, so all of you must pay close attention."

He also told them to focus only on what they hear in court and to avoid any media coverage.

The accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty, the judge said, stressing that the onus is on the Crown to prove its case. "It's not Dennis Oland's job to prove he is innocent."

It's also not enough to think he probably did it, Walsh said. It must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. "He starts the trial with a clean slate."

"You alone decide the facts," he said, urging the jurors to make their decision "without sympathy, prejudice or fear."

The Crown's first witness, Maureen Adamson, who was Richard Oland's executive secretary, is expected to testify this afternoon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***edited to post only article without twitter and live blog
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 18, 2015, 03:05:14 PM
Seems to be a reasonably accurate description of today's proceedings.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/richard-olands-secretary-faces-cross-examination-at-murder-trial/article26431728/
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 18, 2015, 05:05:50 PM
Thank you very much for the articles on the trial of Dennis Oland, RubyRose!

When I learned that the blood on Dennis's brown tweed suit jacket had been dna tested and was shown to be Richard's, I thought, oh boy Dennis's goose is cooked.

However the defence brought in  that Richard had a scalp condition that often bled, and then I thought - the lawyer is suggesting that perhaps that is how Richard's blood inadvertently ended up on Dennis' jacket, leaving it up to the jury's imagination through innocent brushing past the victim as he sat.

The financial aspect does not look good however, especially since Richard was adamant about receipts from his wife before he would pay her bills, which suggests to me that Richard would want everything kept "as agreed upon" - meaning Dennis to pay the interest in full amount and on time!
The writing of nsf cheques for payment, one after the other would exasperate any parent who loaned the money in good faith with the expectation of receiving proper payment. 

Richard had already advanced him a large sum of money on his inheritance, and all that he had to do was pay the interest.  I have read stories where Richard could be a hard man to deal with, including his own wife and children... But, then being an outsider, I really wouldn't know both sides of the story.

jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 18, 2015, 06:50:42 PM

As you mentioned jellybean, there are reports that conflict with Richard's secretary's statement that she had never seen evidence that Richard and Dennis did not get along.

The following are excerpts of quotes attributed to various family members, per documents released by Judge L. Jackson.  The article is written by Steven Kimber of the Atlantic Business Magazine, dated Dec. 2013.

Comments on Richard and Dennis's relationship:


 Connie Oland (Richard's wife)

Richard’s relations with his own family also seemed to deteriorate after he left the brewery. “He was never the same with his children,” his wife Constance would tell police the day after his murder. He was a “strong and controlling” man who could be verbally and emotionally abusive with their two daughters, Lisa and Jackie, but especially with his only son, Dennis. All of the children “had issues” with their father, Connie said, but it was Dennis who bore the brunt of Richard’s belief that “a father could not be friends with his son.”


Dennis Oland

After Richard left Moosehead, Dennis told police, “things got complicated with his father… You kept your distance.”


Lisa (Dennis's wife)

Dennis’s wife Lisa said Dennis had done his best to win his father’s respect but could never live up to Richard’s standards.


Diana Sedlacek (Richard's mistress of eight years)


While Connie had been quick to tell officers she didn’t believe her 45-yearold son would ever hurt his father, Sedlacek described what she saw as a “strained relationship,” in part because Richard thought Dennis was “lazy.”


http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/ (http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 18, 2015, 09:43:47 PM


The four blood spots of Richard's DNA found on Dennis's jacket is the most important evidence for the Crown.  This is "hard" evidence, and the defense had to find an explanation on how Richard's blood could have been transferred to Dennis's jacket. Richard had head sores that would bleed.  He also had a hearing aid, and would have to get close to a speaker, which suggests that his head sore blood could be transferred to a jacket.  I don't know where the four blood spots were found on his jacket, but I can't picture how this could happen.  The defense asks if Richard was "touchy-feely" with Dennis?  Could he not have buried his scabby head into Dennis's jacket in a show of affection?  Or touch his scabby head into his jacket in four places because he couldn't hear him?  Seriously, if this is the best that a top notch defense attorney can come up with, he is in desperate straits in defending his client.


Obviously, I don't think that the defense has offered a good explanation to cause reasonable doubt at this time for the DNA evidence.   The circumstantial evidence is strong against Dennis, and although there is more to come, I had hoped that Dennis's defense team had something more relevant than they presented today. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on September 19, 2015, 05:43:25 AM
The jacket still had the tag from the cleaners on it.  If I had been visiting someone and their blood ended up on my jacket, pretty sure I would point it out to the cleaners and they would spot clean it for me....but forensics found four spots.
He also lied about what jacket he was wearing that day....CCTV proved him wrong.

Doesn't look good for Dennis.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 19, 2015, 06:06:09 AM
I don't think the Defence has offered a very good explanation of the blood spots either, Have Faith.  More like smoke and mirrors.  Since head wounds are known to bleed most profusely and since Mr. Oland suffered around forty, I fail to see why these four spots might even be relevant.  Of course, I don't profess to be a blood splatter expert by any stretch of the imagination and perhaps at some point an expert witness in this area will be called to shed more light on the matter.

I do have some trouble with the timeline, as well.   Since a witness states Mr. Oland was alive and all seemed well at approx 5:30-5:45PM and the surveillance camera at the store Dennis visited with his wife shows a time of 7:38PM, he would have had very little time to work himself up into such a rage, do the deed, clean himself up somewhat (it was July and still daylight after all),  drive home (at least a 15-20 minute drive, longer perhaps depending upon where his car was parked) then change into other clothes before heading off to the store.   I suppose it's possible it could be done but it seems more likely to me that, if he is guilty,  he went back to his father's office later that night at which point they may have argued.  It was not unusual from what we have been led to understand that Mr. Oland often worked late into the night and interesting that the only thing missing was his cell phone.

I believe, the Defence is trying to say that since Mr. Oland wasn't worried about the late interest payments, and that may well have been true, there was really no motive for the killing.  It is possible though that given Dennis' desperate financial situation, he may have been attempting to obtain another advance on his inheritance and his father may have simply felt enough was enough.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 19, 2015, 01:37:14 PM
One would think there would be more blood on that jacket than 4 spots, even though it went to the drycleaners.   With 40 blows to the head, the perp would have more blood on his clothes than that.  Unless, as Ruby Rose suggests, he may have returned to the office in the evening.

I can't recall,  did the building have security cameras?

With the cell phone missing, police would still be able to track Richards calls.
Perhaps the killer, just to be on the safe side, even after 40 blows to the head.
 removed the cell phone, so the victim could not dial 911. -


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 19, 2015, 02:53:37 PM
I have never seen any mention of security cameras for that building, jellybean.  It is an older building and more than likely did not have any.  To my knowledge, Mr. Oland's office and a small printing firm downstairs were the only occupants.  And yes.  According to the evidence obtained by media under the Access to Information Act, the police do have a record of Mr. Oland's calls.

I believe the printing firm has closed since Mr. Oland's death.  The building definitely has an unoccupied look about it.  It's very sad to walk by and think of the horror that must have taken place there.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 19, 2015, 04:28:42 PM

About the jacket, and witnesses./jb



http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/

{snippet} 

As investigators began to piece together the events leading up to Richard Oland’s death, they zeroed in on the early evening hours of July 6. Dennis Oland told police he’d visited his father at the office after work that day to talk family genealogy, one of the few passions the two men shared. It had been, Dennis suggested, an uneventful visit and he left.

But workers at the printing shop below told police they’d heard six or seven “exceptionally loud, quick pounding thumps” that evening from an area of Oland’s office on the floor above them.

Police were also curious about discrepancies between what Dennis claimed to be wearing when he visited his father – a navy blazer, khaki dress pants, dark brown dress shoes and a blue, white-collared dress shirt – and other evidence they’d gathered.

 Security cameras at Dennis’s Wood Gundy office showed him leaving the building that day wearing a brown sports jacket and beige pants. The police also had a witness, Bill Adamson, Maureen’s husband, who’d been waiting outside the office in his car for his wife to finish work. He saw a man wearing a dark brown sports jacket and light-coloured pants carrying a red, environmentally friendly grocery-style bag enter 52 Canterbury. Adamson did not see the man’s face so he couldn’t identify him.

A short time later, a woman saw a man at Renforth Wharf in Rothesay.

 He was “dressed very nice.” The man picked something up at the beginning of the pier, the woman said, then walked to the far end where he opened a bag and took something red out. He then wrapped the object he’d initially picked up, put it in the bag and walked briskly back toward the parking lot. “I knew it wasn’t right,” the woman told police investigators. “There was a purpose to what he was doing, a real purpose.”

 When police later showed her video from Richard Oland’s funeral, she identified the man she’d seen as one of the pall bearers: Dennis Oland. Dennis admitted he’d been to the wharf on his way home that night; he was just looking to see if his kids were still swimming there, he said. They weren’t.

On July 9, divers searched the waters around Renforth Wharf, but found nothing.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 20, 2015, 01:40:05 AM
The jacket still had the tag from the cleaners on it.  If I had been visiting someone and their blood ended up on my jacket, pretty sure I would point it out to the cleaners and they would spot clean it for me....but forensics found four spots.
He also lied about what jacket he was wearing that day....CCTV proved him wrong.

Doesn't look good for Dennis.

It's interesting to me that there are different takes here on blood spot evidence. I follow Jellybeans' thoughts that a beating involving 40 blows to the head and blood pooling on the floor would leave the killer with more than 4 spots on his clothing. I also believe the defenses arguments that the blood clots that would develop on his head and his habit of leaning in to listen when chatting is a good rationale for spots showing up on a jacket, at least to the point of reasonable doubt. Dennis is a bit on the short side while his father a bit taller, so the prosecution might argue that point.

I would think that given the small amount of blood found on the jacket they will suggest that at some point during the meeting Dennis removed his jacket (it was a 'blistering' hot day, according to one witness) and thus a few drops found their way to a jacket over a chair or hanging while his shirt and slacks took the brunt of the blood. I would guess they would then suggest these last two items were destroyed or discarded, perhaps along with his shoes. There is the possibility the dry-cleaner will be called to testify as to the condition of the jacket before it was dry-cleaned, which could change the tactics of one side or the other.

I see the defenses argument around the bloodspots giving reasonable doubt, and the fact someone lied (or was confused!) about what the were wearing as not being nearly enough to convict. The prosecution will need to do much better, in my opinion, to win this battle.         
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 20, 2015, 07:26:53 AM
All good points, BaySailor.

On balance, I would have to say the Defence had a much better week than did the Prosecution.  Early days yet, though, and personally I have not thought either side has been particularly impressive.  Easy enough to sit back and be critical, of course.

I definitely agree with you that the Prosecution will have to do much better if a conviction is to be obtained.  The case appears very weak at best.   But again, it's still early days.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 20, 2015, 11:11:39 AM
I do have some trouble with the timeline, as well.   Since a witness states Mr. Oland was alive and all seemed well at approx 5:30-5:45PM and the surveillance camera at the store Dennis visited with his wife shows a time of 7:38PM, he would have had very little time to work himself up into such a rage, do the deed, clean himself up somewhat (it was July and still daylight after all),  drive home (at least a 15-20 minute drive, longer perhaps depending upon where his car was parked) then change into other clothes before heading off to the store.   I suppose it's possible it could be done but it seems more likely to me that, if he is guilty,  he went back to his father's office later that night at which point they may have argued.  It was not unusual from what we have been led to understand that Mr. Oland often worked late into the night....

Taken from article in post 252

Quote
But workers at the printing shop below told police they’d heard six or seven “exceptionally loud, quick pounding thumps” that evening from an area of Oland’s office on the floor above them.



Would Dennis have the time to accomplish the murder? The printing press business reported hearing a number of loud thumps  coming from upstairs in the evening.
Dennis was shopping in the evening with his wife.

 What are the  hours that constitutes evening?

Question is:  approx. what time did the employees in the printing shop hear the pounding thumps?

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 20, 2015, 11:36:56 AM
Would Dennis have the time to accomplish the murder? The printing press business reported hearing a number of loud thumps  coming from upstairs in the evening.
Dennis was shopping in the evening with his wife./jb

He also had to stop at the Renforth wharf on the way home. While this is only 75 yards or so off of the Old Rothesay Road it still requires time to get out and 'check to see if the kids were still there', and play with his bag.

For any folks who do a crime scene tour of the area, I highly recommend hitting the market Dennis and Lisa stopped at and purchasing one of their brownie trays. They're brilliant.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 20, 2015, 11:59:33 AM
Baysailor - "For any folks who do a crime scene tour of the area, I highly recommend hitting the market Dennis and Lisa stopped at and purchasing one of their brownie trays. They're brilliant. "

Do they have crime scene tours regarding the Oland murder? They are brilliant, do you mean the tours are brilliant, or the couple are brilliant? Not too sure what you meant by that.

Yes, you are right - Dennis did go to the wharf - come to think of it - and that would also eat up time.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 20, 2015, 12:25:08 PM
According to the article in the Atlantic Business magazine quoted here, the witness who identified Dennis at the wharf described him as nicely dressed.  Unless he was in the habit of carrying a change of clothes around with him (and, who knows, perhaps he was), I might also have expected him to appear to be at least a little disheveled.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 20, 2015, 02:58:16 PM
Quote jellybean:  "Question is:  approx. what time did the employees in the printing shop hear the pounding thumps?"

The owner of the building also heard the thumps.  It will be relevant to learn the" time" the thumps were heard.  I assume that this is "hold back" information.  There is approximately a two hour window from DO's arrival at RO's office, and him being seen on surveillance camera at the market.  He went to buy some bananas at the market store with his wife and aunt.  He apparently also went to a pharmacy.   


Modified to include link wih video at the market with Dennis, his wife and his aunt.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-defence-questions-1.3233093 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-defence-questions-1.3233093)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 20, 2015, 03:20:30 PM
I read in National Post, an article by Christie Blanchford, that the documents on Richard's desk were documents which Dennis had brought to show his father on recently discovered genealogy of the Oland family.

Dennis had recently returned from England with his research.  That would explain why the conversation on their family history was taking place, of which the secretary had overheard.

There is a video of Dennis, his wife, and his sister in law at the store, but I can't put up the link, as it includes tweets from the courthouse.

He was wearing khaki shorts, and  light blue shirt and sandals. He did appear to be very relaxed, without a care in the world.  So did wife and sister in law.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 20, 2015, 03:48:17 PM
Baysailor - "For any folks who do a crime scene tour of the area, I highly recommend hitting the market Dennis and Lisa stopped at and purchasing one of their brownie trays. They're brilliant. "

Do they have crime scene tours regarding the Oland murder? They are brilliant, do you mean the tours are brilliant, or the couple are brilliant? Not too sure what you meant by that.


Jb, the brownies at the market are brilliant!! First class. It's a nice market.

There are no crime scene tours that I am aware of, but Rothesay is worth a visit. It's the prettiest town I know of, though I am a bit biased.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 22, 2015, 01:41:58 PM


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/richard-olands-killer-would-have-had-blood-on-them-witness-tells-trial/article26459378/

The fact that the door to the alley may not have been checked disturbs me somewhat.  I would have thought it might have been one of the first things they would have looked at.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 22, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
Once again, thank you Ruby Rose for keeping us abreast of this trial.

I am copying your link - if you don't mind, as sometimes links disappear, and I don't mind in doing it. We can read it, and absorb it.

Wow, looks like defense is going head strong on this one. As you have pointed out, one would think that the back door would have been checked out.

Pizza Boxes in office" I wonder if someone picked them up, However, I noted that it was more than one pizza box, referred to as pizza boxes,  so I doubt it. Sounds more like a few people to feed. Even taking two pizza boxes, I wonder how much was left uneaten?  I cannot see two people going through two pizza's, unless they were mini's.  So the pizza boxes may be brought in by the defence, if it is to their advantage.
And - were fingerprints taken from the pizza boxes? Any odd piece of crust from the  pizza with bite marks?

It was a good day for Dennis!!

From the Link provided by Ruby Rose

Richard Oland’s killer would have had blood on them, witness tells trial 


Kevin Bissett

SAINT JOHN, N.B. — The Canadian Press
Published Monday, Sep. 21, 2015 4:14PM EDT
Last updated Monday, Sep. 21, 2015 4:16PM EDT

Richard Oland’s killer would have walked away from the gory crime scene spattered with the well-known businessman’s blood, a police officer told a murder trial in New Brunswick on Monday.

Const. Duane Squires of the Saint John Police Force said he got a call at 8:52 a.m. on July 7, 2011, to go to 52 Canterbury St. He testified that when he arrived, he noticed a distinctive smell in the offices of the Far End Corp.

“One that I am familiar with,” he added. “The smell of a decaying body.”

Oland’s 46-year-old son Dennis has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder.

Justice John Walsh of the Court of Queen’s Bench warned the jury and those in the public gallery that pictures from the office would be graphic. They showed the 69-year-old Oland face-down on the floor next to his desk, wearing a dark blue suit, his head and upper body in a pool of blood.

Oland family members didn’t leave the courtroom, but some averted their eyes when the more gruesome images were shown.

Squires said he saw a lot of blood spatter in the room and that he, another officer, and a police cadet left after about a minute and were careful not to disturb anything.

Under cross-examination, Squires told defence attorney Alan Gold that Oland had clearly been bleeding from the head.



“You would expect that whoever did this would have blood on them,” said Gold.

Squires replied: “Yes.”

“This was up front and close with blood flying through the air,” Gold asserted.

Paramedics left after less than a minute in the office as well, Squires said, telling police officers that rigor mortis had set in and the man had been dead for some time.

Squires was responsible for securing the crime scene and logging whenever anyone entered or left the Far End office until late afternoon on the day the body was discovered.

Squires told Gold he didn’t check a nearby exit door that led to an alleyway behind the building and didn’t recall seeing any other officers check to see if the door was locked or look outside the alleyway.

Gold said he was surprised it had not been checked, asserting that it seemed the nearest and best exit for a killer, rather than going out the front door to a busy street.

Earlier Monday, a man who was among the first to arrive after Oland’s body was found testified that the first thing he noticed was a “nauseating” smell.

Preston Chiasson was at Printing Plus below Richard Oland’s office when the victim’s secretary, Maureen Adamson, came into the shop looking for help.

Asked by Crown attorney P.J. Veniot what he saw when he went further in the office, Chiasson replied: “Richard on the floor, slaughtered.”

Chiasson said he was trained in first aid and knew there was nothing he could do.

Veniot told the jury in his opening submission last week that Oland was killed in a violent outburst that resulted in 40 blows to his head and neck, as well as six defensive wounds to his hands.

The final witness Monday was Const. Stan Miller, who was the acting sergeant on the morning of July 7, 2011.

He said he attended the scene until another senior officer took charge. He said there were pizza boxes in the garbage can at the Far End office and he was instructed to go to the Pizza Hut in nearby Brunswick Square mall to seen any security video from the previous day.

Miller said he also acquired security video from Thandi’s restaurant on Canterbury Street and canvassed other businesses in the area for security video.

The trial takes a two-day break but resumes with the next Crown witness on Thursday.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ps. Baysailor - How lucky you are to sail in the beautiful  water and have the best brownies - EVER!. Sounds heavenly.  Please send me some? ;)

jb

 


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 22, 2015, 08:35:26 PM

ps. Baysailor - How lucky you are to sail in the beautiful  water and have the best brownies - EVER!. Sounds heavenly.  Please send me some? ;)

jb

I would jb, but they are generally gone by the time I get home, don't you know!!

I don't like to criticize LE whom I believe are generally understaffed, but not checking the nearest exit door at a murder scene has to be detective malpractice. That sort of mistake in a regular workplace would usually have one looking for a new job.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 22, 2015, 08:57:47 PM
So not only was the nearest exit door not checked, it wasn't dusted for finger prints or blood trace.   The killer was likely the last person to turn the knob.   Crime Scene Course 101?   ???   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 22, 2015, 10:19:25 PM
Quote Baysailor
Quote

I don't like to criticize LE whom I believe are generally understaffed, but not checking the nearest exit door at a murder scene has to be detective malpractice. That sort of mistake in a regular workplace would usually have one looking for a new job. 

No we do not like to pick fault. So true, about a mistake in a regular work place/jb

Have Faith:  Good points!!

I am waiting with great anticipation to learn about the pizza boxes. :)

ie: delivered or brought in - and what time.\ ???

plus any dna evidence from the pizza boxes, including finger prints, etc. ???
Also part of crime scene 101?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 24, 2015, 07:28:30 PM
Re the back door that lead to the alley.  See the CBC link below.  If you click on the CBC reporter's live blog from court, there is mention of the testimony from Richard's secretary, Maureen Adamson, about this door.  See Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon's post from Court at 9:36 am.

"She (Maureen Adamson) estimates she left about 5:45 pm.  Made sure backdoor to alley was locked."

Although LE didn't check to see if the door was still locked (or treat it for forensic evidence) this seems to be important info to rule out some random street person accessing Richard's office after Dennis left.  But it is possible that a person gained access before the secretary locked the door.  She didn't check a vacant office where someone could be hiding.  Not sure how likely this could have happened without her noticing, but it could be possible.  As well, it was standard procedure that the last person to leave the building would lock the street level front door.  She found this door unlocked the next morning when she came to work. So again, someone could have entered the office after Dennis left, and while Richard was still in his office.


Modified to include the CBC link

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3232115 (http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3232115)






Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 25, 2015, 10:09:29 AM
According to yesterday's local paper (Sorry I am not permitted to provide the link), the door in question leads to a driveway which, I assume, would come out on a street other than Canterbury Street.  I may well stand to be corrected on this as the paper was not clear on that detail.  The defence had earlier raised the issue that the killer would have been more likely to use that exit as it would not have been as busy as the Canterbury Street entrance.  I'm not certain that would necessarily be correct.  There are many more businesses on some of the streets surrounding Canterbury Street  and I would think more chance, therefore, of something possibly being picked up by a security camera.  Again, not knowing exactly where the driveway led, it is difficult to say.  Perhaps someone else may know and be able to shed some light.  I suppose if the killer had a car it could have been parked in the driveway but that would be taking quite a chance, too.  It would also almost certainly indicate premeditation.

In addition, according to the paper, the funeral home personnel who removed Mr. Oland's body testified police did not point this exit out to them although it would have made the removal much easier.   I am not certain if this was simply because they did not know or if they were, in fact, ensuring that the area would be secured, for searching, forensic testing, etc
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on September 25, 2015, 10:30:20 AM
Hi Ruby Rose. Can you please post the name of your local paper and then those who are interested can take a look?

I realize it's getting harder to post links that do not include fb, twitter and live blog. That having been said, it is the personal comments made there that are of concern. So many of the comments made are inappropriate, to say the least. It's almost scary seeing the "lynch mob" mentality of many people. Some are so quick to point fingers and even say (graphically at times) what punishment should be dealt a person that "they" feel is guilty. It seems some don't realize 'innocent until proven guilty'.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 25, 2015, 12:19:16 PM

Sure, debbie.  The paper is the Telegraph-Journal (Saint John).  You must have a subscription, however, in order to view it online.

I agree it is getting much more difficult to post links to news stories nowadays.  Probably the day is not that far off when we won't be able to post them at all.

I wish I could post the links to the Telegraph-Journal articles.  Just my own opinion, but I have found they do contain much more detail than some of the other links I have posted here on this particular case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 25, 2015, 12:29:10 PM
According to yesterday's local paper (Sorry I am not permitted to provide the link), the door in question leads to a driveway which, I assume, would come out on a street other than Canterbury Street. 

There's no driveway as such, just an alleyway parallel to Canterbury and Germain St. above it which was designed to bisect the block and service the back doors of all businesses on both streets. The buildings are wall to wall on that block and extend to the sidewalk on their streets and to the alleyway in back- no room for parking or even a few blades of grass. I suspect the block dates from the rebuild of the great fire (of 1877?) and is meant for deliverers and their horse-drawn carriages to drop the stuff off and leave quickly. The alley is a dead end and opens onto Grannan Street which is lightly traveled and I think has no "business'" entrance off of it. I think the defense lawyer was suggesting, and the Detective agreed, that the dead-end of the alley could be climbed over so one reasonably could have left Dick's office through the alleyway door and escaped without walking down the alleyway to its intersection with Grannan Street.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 25, 2015, 02:35:35 PM
Thank you, BaySailor.

The attached link related to today's testimony provides additional information as well.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-testimony-continues-1.3243453
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 25, 2015, 07:06:12 PM
Taken from CBC link, above.

Const. Mike Horgan, a dog handler with the Saint John Police Force for 19 years, did search the alleyway earlier that day, however, the courtroom heard.

Horgan said he arrived at the scene at about 3:30 p.m. and spent about an hour searching the area with his dog Leo. There was a heavy downpour during that period which lasted about 10 minutes, he said.

He marked on an aerial photograph the route he took, which included Canterbury, Grannan, Princess and Germain streets.



Horgan said there was one grassy area between Canterbury and Germain streets that he didn't search because he couldn't access the area with his dog. That was the area beyond the garage rooftop the defence had earlier suggested was a possible escape route.

"No evidence was found as a result of the search," said Horgan.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-could-dennis-oland-go-from-killer-to-happy-shopper-in-68-minutes
Miller’s cross produced another possible revelation, also left unexamined.

Adamson has testified that Dick Oland’s wife, Connie, had asked her to send home with Dennis that day an old log book from a camp that had deep family connections. And before leaving the office, Adamson said, she handed it over to Dick to give to his son when he came by, the son being apparently the more reliable courier. The last she saw of the log book it was on a table by Dick’s desk.

That very same part of the table, in crime scene pictures, is dotted with blood.

While there are other possible explanations — Dick Oland might have moved the book — surely one is that it left the office, perhaps with Dennis Oland, before the murder.
Unbloodied, that log book is now an exhibit.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 26, 2015, 08:58:58 AM

Thank you very much for the link to the National Post story, jellybean.

The condition of the logbook certainly does raise more questions.  I did notice one inaccuracy in the story, however.  While Mrs. Adamson did testify that the jacket Dennis was wearing that day was brown, she said she could not positively identify it as the one seized by police during their search (as the story suggests).
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 26, 2015, 09:15:58 AM
I also meant to add that the reporter covering the story for CBC Radio in Saint John said yesterday AM that the owner of the building and another gentleman from downstairs may testify next week.  I am hoping that will provide some insight on the timing of the "thumps" that were heard.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 26, 2015, 01:41:46 PM
I also meant to add that the reporter covering the story for CBC Radio in Saint John said yesterday AM that the owner of the building and another gentleman from downstairs may testify next week.  I am hoping that will provide some insight on the timing of the "thumps" that were heard.

Thanks again Ruby Rose. That testimony will be very interesting.  It comes down to timing - I guess.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/paramedic-tells-oland-trial-police-waited-a-year-to-take-his-statement/article26531761/

Comeau and Wall were the paramedics called to the scene.

Quote
Under cross examination by defence lawyer Gary Miller, both Comeau and his partner, Chris Wall, said they weren’t contacted by the police for statements until November 2012.

Miller asked if police would normally seek a statement much sooner. Comeau said, “Yes.”

Charlene MacDonald was one of two funeral directors who attended the crime scene. She testified she wasn’t interviewed by police until 2014.

When asked by the defence if it was hard to remember details after a few years, she replied, “Yes.”
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on September 27, 2015, 08:56:07 AM
I just would like to know the feeling of the community on this trial and what they think of the accused, do they feel there is doubt about his guilt or do they feel he is guilty as sin, so they say???? Just wondering what the community feels on this case. I understand that all of his family members are standing by the accused. So that could mean that maybe he is innocent. Living in another area and not knowing too much about this case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 27, 2015, 11:36:36 AM
I just would like to know the feeling of the community on this trial and what they think of the accused, do they feel there is doubt about his guilt or do they feel he is guilty as sin, so they say???? Just wondering what the community feels on this case. I understand that all of his family members are standing by the accused. So that could mean that maybe he is innocent. Living in another area and not knowing too much about this case.

I don't want to give to much detail as I don't want to be recognized lest it affect relationships with friends and acquaintances, yet I do enjoy the conversation. It's a guilty pleasure that at the same time I know is a bit tasteless.

The better people know Dennis the less they like to talk about it, which means they either also find it uncomfortable to discuss, or think the worst. People who don't know the family well enough really wouldn't be able to form an opinion.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 27, 2015, 01:55:57 PM
Hi BaySailor,

Dennis looks like a baby-faced, sweet kind of guy.  Without resorting to gossip, can you give any insight into what he is like?  Usually the media will interview family, friends, neighbours etc. who will give their comments about an accused.  I haven't read anything about Dennis, and would like to know a bit about him.

I won't ask about Richard, as I am a firm advocate of no "victim bashing" and have a sense that there could be negative comments.

HF

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 27, 2015, 06:21:42 PM
Hi BaySailor,

Dennis looks like a baby-faced, sweet kind of guy.  Without resorting to gossip, can you give any insight into what he is like?  Usually the media will interview family, friends, neighbours etc. who will give their comments about an accused.  I haven't read anything about Dennis, and would like to know a bit about him.

I won't ask about Richard, as I am a firm advocate of no "victim bashing" and have a sense that there could be negative comments.

HF

HF, I'll paste a portion of a post I made here 2 years ago and remove my comments relating to his father, as follows: 

(Open)
And of course, back on the home front we have a kid who has grown up with an absentee father. He's now wound up in his grandfathers mansion that has to be very expensive to keep up, and his father is burning through his prospective inheritance like there's no tomorrow. With the potential for resentment that can leave, I can understand why the SJPD have executed search warrants on his property and why he might wish to retain a lawyer.

I hope they catch the killer too. If they do and it is a 'close family member', I would have some understanding, perhaps even sympathy, for the man. "

If Dennis killed his father I have some understanding of why, and whether he did or didn't I have sympathy for him.

As I mentioned in a previous post Dennis moved into his grandfather's estate when it was vacated and I suspect that the home was part of Dick's inheritance and thus was passed on/sold to Dennis (note: we now know it may have been given directly to Dennis), creating a half million dollar debt/mortgage to his father. It would be a very expensive home to keep up, I would think.   

(Dennis) had a very tight relationship with his mother and 2 very kind and close sisters (one I do not know but am also told is a good egg) and you can understand Dennis remaining part of the family.  (close)

Anyone who chooses to can read my full comment on this thread posted October 2013.

I could add a few things- Dennis and his sisters are not snots in any sense of the word that I know- they are (or at least were) friendly and polite and generally nice to people. Dennis went to Saint John High, a public school in the city, when most kids went to a public school in Rothesay (including the old money kids) with only a few going to RCS-Netherwood, the private school. Saint John High has an IB program and is generally considered the better academic school in the area. I don't think he was a top student, more of a regular kid. He was into  cars and power boats though the local yacht club is more of a sailors club. I think generally speaking you might say he is an inoffensive guy, not a charismatic type, and more of a follower than a leader.

I think that's all I can say that wouldn't be personal opinion rather than 'insight'. If you have any more questions I will try to answer them w/o being too specific.

Cheers for now.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on September 27, 2015, 09:19:55 PM
Thanks BaySailor.  I had forgotten about your comments from 2013. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on September 28, 2015, 08:30:44 PM
Hi BaySailor,

Dennis looks like a baby-faced, sweet kind of guy.  Without resorting to gossip, can you give any insight into what he is like?  Usually the media will interview family, friends, neighbours etc. who will give their comments about an accused.  I haven't read anything about Dennis, and would like to know a bit about him.

I won't ask about Richard, as I am a firm advocate of no "victim bashing" and have a sense that there could be negative comments.

HF

What he was like with respect to every day social activity or what he was like with respect to the modalities of  'family business'?  Normally two totally different animals in most clans.  The family has had a well documented, turbulent relationship with the structuring of the finances in the past, throw in the adultery angle, family honor/integrity, personal debt etc. and there's a potential perfect storm brewing.  Nevertheless, much more information, testimony, and potential curves in the road to come.  Should be a very interesting autumn.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 28, 2015, 11:34:47 PM

What he was like with respect to every day social activity or what he was like with respect to the modalities of  'family business'?  Normally two totally different animals in most clans.  The family has had a well documented, turbulent relationship with the structuring of the finances in the past, throw in the adultery angle, family honor/integrity, personal debt etc. and there's a potential perfect storm brewing.  Nevertheless, much more information, testimony, and potential curves in the road to come.  Should be a very interesting autumn.

For the first, he is fairly quiet but friendly; approachable and easy to talk too, including with people he doesn't know. For the latter, I don't know, and I suspect close friends probably don't know. If Dick was around and being difficult it was uncomfortable for everyone, but worst for whomever he was being pushy with. It was Dick's way or the highway and if he didn't get his way he would resort to bullying or dramatic and childish behavior to get it.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on September 29, 2015, 04:40:54 AM
Future testimony on some of this may prove interesting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-computer-forensics-1.3246611

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on September 29, 2015, 09:48:25 AM
Hi BaySailor,

Dennis looks like a baby-faced, sweet kind of guy.  Without resorting to gossip, can you give any insight into what he is like?  Usually the media will interview family, friends, neighbours etc. who will give their comments about an accused.  I haven't read anything about Dennis, and would like to know a bit about him.

I won't ask about Richard, as I am a firm advocate of no "victim bashing" and have a sense that there could be negative comments.

HF

Thank you Have Faith. This is important for all to consider when posting.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 29, 2015, 04:18:11 PM
Thanks for the link Ruby Rose.  I am copying it for (future reference)?

Dennis Oland murder trial hears from RCMP computer expert

The search for digital fingerprints that could help clarify the time of Richard Oland’s murder was the focus of the Dennis Oland murder trial on Monday.

Payman Hakimian, a technical crime forensic analyst with the Fredericton RCMP, was the first expert witness to testify during the trial. He said police found about half a dozen personal computers and computer hard drives, along with other electronic devices, while examining Richard Oland’s office.

Hakimian examined all of the electronic devices, and concluded that Richard Oland logged into his computers for the last time in the early afternoon of July 6, 2011. 

Hakimian said in his opinion, the last time any of the electronic devices in the office were used on that day was at 5:39 p.m. 

Defence lawyer Alan Gold questioned that conclusion, suggesting there are actions that computer users can do that will not leave a trace.

Gold suggested that Richard Oland may have been visiting a yacht racing website later in the evening and that Hakimian failed to pick that up.

The RCMP computer analyst also testified that Richard Oland's cell phone had been plugged into one of the computers all afternoon.

Hakimian says the cell phone was connected to the computer until at least until 4:40 p.m. that afternoon. But he could not say when the cell phone was disconnected from the computer.

Dennis Oland, the last person to see Richard Oland alive in his officeand his son, has pleaded not guilty to second degree murder.

With files from CTV Atlantic’s Mike Cameron.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 29, 2015, 08:01:33 PM
Reading today's news, a good portion of the day covered a long term affair, texting between victim and other party was scrutinized.
Timing of these texts is considered crucial.  The ipod or is it ipad?  was missing from the office, and has never been recovered.
However forensic tech was able to access data from ipod/ipad, as it was plugged into main frame to back up its info.
While the ipod/ipad is missing, the data was in the mainframe.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 29, 2015, 08:45:04 PM
The ipod or is it ipad? 

iphone!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on September 29, 2015, 09:05:19 PM
Baysailor: Ta! That's what I was attempting to say iphone.  Headshaker or what? :)
Dick's iphone is missing, as well as my memory.
Here is an excellent article written in McLeans.  This was prior to the arrest of Dennis.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty-the-dick-oland-case/

Murder and a Maritime dynasty: The Dick Oland case


When Oland was found dead, police turned to a prime suspect

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
Baysailor: Ta! That's what I was attempting to say iphone.  Headshaker or what? :)
Dick's iphone is missing, as well as my memory.
Here is an excellent article written in McLeans.  This was prior to the arrest of Dennis.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty-the-dick-oland-case/

Murder and a Maritime dynasty: The Dick Oland case


When Oland was found dead, police turned to a prime suspect

jb

Apparently we share a similar memory.

That MacLeans's piece seems like a balanced article but I think they make a minor miss on Dick's CV. They state that a police report notes Dennis stated his father was ex-military. That's news to me. He has a Halifax first cousin once removed also named Richard H. Oland who had a long career as a naval officer. P.W was a regimental guy but I think Dick was a reserves guy at best. Maybe that's what he was referring to?   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on September 30, 2015, 11:45:33 PM
Rather off topic, there is a nice one minute video posted on YouTube you can find if you search Richard Oland Gerry Roufs Award. It's a quick montage of some of Dick's sailing highlights that I think is nicely done. Opens up a bit of a human face, perhaps? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 01, 2015, 06:55:59 PM
Baysailor; not off topic at all.  The victim, as we have 0learned was very complex, and it does place us in the moment of happy and well accomplished time for Richard.

Here is the latest; I have often wondered why one person was honed in on, as being the murderer.  No one else was ever considered.
Richard was involved in many things, and he did have his friends, as well as enemies.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3251971

Dennis Oland trial hears lead investigator was new to unit

Const. Stephen Davidson joined major crime unit 3 days before Richard Oland's body found in office

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon CBC News


Posted:Oct 01, 2015 1:39 PM AT

Last Updated:Oct 01, 2015 1:39 PM AT
   
The officer who became the lead investigator in Richard Oland's death joined the Saint John Police Force's major crime unit only three days before the prominent businessman's bludgeoned body was found, the jury at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial heard on Thursday.

Dennis Oland, Oct. 1, 2015
Dennis Oland, 47, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder in the 2011 death of his father, Richard Oland. (CBC)

Dennis Oland, 47, is accused in the 2011 death of his father.

Const. Stephen Davidson told the Saint John courtroom he had been a police officer for about 12 years at that point, having worked in uniform patrol for about eight years, and then the RCMP's specialized integrated proceeds of crime unit in Moncton for about another four.
But July 4, 2011 was his first official day with Saint John's major crime unit, he said. On July 7, shortly after 9 a.m., he and another constable were asked to respond to 52 Canterbury St., for a report of an unconscious male, not breathing.

He went mostly to observe his new unit in action, to "see how things work," he said.

However, it quickly became an all-hands-on deck situation due to the "suspicious" nature of the death and Davidson was thrust into the investigation.

He ended up being the one to notify the family and to interview Dennis Oland and his sister, Jacqueline Walsh, he said.

And when the lead investigator, Const. Rick Russell retired three months later, he became in charge of case.

Davidson says he only went far enough into Richard Oland's investment firm office, located on the second floor, to see his body lying face down in a pool of blood with "significant head trauma."

Oland had suffered 40 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head and neck and six defensive wounds to his hands, the Crown has said.

ns-hi-richard-oland-852
Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. (Canadian Yachting Association)

Davidson says he noted a backpack on the floor, along with a set of keys and a folder that appeared to have fallen off the desk, scattering some papers.

He estimates he stayed in the Far End Corporation office less than a minute before retracing his steps without touching anything. He was not wearing any protective gear, such as latex gloves, or booties, he said.

In the foyer area outside the office, Davidson says he noticed a door with a dead bolt. He remembers unlocking it, looking outside and locking it again.

Davidson says he also went out the door into the alleyway/courtyard area to look around, but can't recall if that was on July 7, or two days later when he returned to the crime scene.

Dennis Oland's defence team has suggested the door in question would have been the "preferred exit route" of the killer, since it led to the back of the building at almost ground level, instead of down a flight of stairs out the front of the building onto a busy street.

One of the first officers to respond to the scene. Const. Don Shannon, previously testified that the door was closed when he arrived, but could not say if it was locked.

Other officers have previously testified that it was wide open later that day and remained open until at least the following morning.

Dennis Oland, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his office the night before, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder.

Lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot plans to recall Davidson later in the trial to ask him about taking a statement from Dennis Oland.

The defence has chosen to wait until the end of Davidson's testimony to cross-examine him.

Sgt. Mark Smith, of the Saint John Police Force's forensic identification team, is scheduled to take the stand this afternoon.



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 02, 2015, 05:10:40 AM
Some very interesting testimony here.  Anyone who wishes, please copy.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-davidson-1.3251971
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 02, 2015, 11:22:51 AM
Here is the latest; I have often wondered why one person was honed in on, as being the murderer.  No one else was ever considered.
Richard was involved in many things, and he did have his friends, as well as enemies.

Well, it's too early speculate and one can only glean from what has been alleged previously in the press ... but if the accused was the last one to see the victim alive, had memory issues about what color jacket he was wearing the day of the murder, and had the victim's DNA/blood on at least one item of clothing, and then the whole family financial issue thing as well .... then it might well make sense as to why they put their detective eggs in one basket.  Additionally, the family nor anybody else has come out publically afaik with any counter theories on who else may have been a candidate for this dastardly act.  Let's see what happens, what surprises are revealed in the weeks to come ......
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 02, 2015, 12:35:40 PM
If this is the case, it would seem unlikely the killer used this route to exit the building.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/01/oland-murder-trial-hears-office-buildings-rear-exit-locked-from-inside
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 02, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
Not sure how much value could be placed in fingerprints found within the office, in any event.   Since, in all likelihood, Mr. Oland did know his killer, any fingerprints could probably be explained.  They would not necessarily have to have been left there the day of his death.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-oland-murder-door-fingerprints-1.3253805
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 03, 2015, 12:39:30 PM
It has been stated that the murder weapon was an axe. Well that would be a very violent end for this man and a lot of rage to kill someone in that method. The fact the weapon was not found, the killer would have to have something to put the weapon in to discard it as quickly as possible. It could have been put in a brief case. And the fact that the accused had gone to a meeting with someone at the wharf, maybe on his way he discarded the weapon in the water, did anyone ever check that out. Where would his car have been parked to go to the wharf. I understand there is something around the timeline of his visit to the wharf and the time of the murder. Other then someone meeting up with him and taking the evidence and hiding it, where did he get rid of the weapon???? That is a mystery and would make things a great deal better if the weapon was found. Also the detective on the scene is not sure about things on that investigation on the initial call, everything should have been marked down, everything he did and numerous photos should have been taken right after. If the crime scene was not secured, it could throw the whole trial out. The main thing is, I do hope the real killer has been arrested and that justice is done for the Oland family and Richard Oland. :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 03, 2015, 12:44:55 PM
Taken from RubyRose' link

The jury at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial heard Friday how the Saint John Police Force's investigation into who killed Richard Oland in 2011 became bogged down by the amount of evidence involved.

Sgt. Mark Smith, the head of the forensic identification unit, collected dozens of pieces of evidence from the crime scene and the victim's body, including blood, hair and fibres.

Sgt. Mark Smith, head of the Saint John Police Force's forensic identification unit, says the RCMP would only test a few pieces of evidence at a time and at least one sample took more than a year to come back. (Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon/CBC)

But he testified that such forensic samples had to be sent to the RCMP labs in Halifax or Ottawa for testing, and at the time, it often took up to 60 days to get results.

Smith said the RCMP told him if he wanted a quicker turnaround, he would have to limit the number of items and wait for those results before sending any more. So he initially sent only five items for testing, he said.

Still, one of them — a blood sample — took more than a year to come back, the courtroom heard.

It's not like the crime shows on television where police get lab results right away, said Smith.​
Richard Oland's bludgeoned body was found lying face down in a pool of blood in his investment firm office on July 7, 2011, with hundreds of blood spatter stains radiating around him, some as far as nine feet away.

The prominent businessman had suffered 40 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head and neck, the Crown has said.

"The injuries were completely through his skull in some places," Smith said on Friday.
[IMAGE ]
Some of them were round and about three centimetres in diameter with a pattern in them, while others were long and slender as if made by a sharp instrument, he said.

No murder weapon was ever found and there were no signs of forced entry.

Oland, 69, also had six moderate to severe defensive wounds to his hands, as well as minor cuts or bruising to his chest, cheek and nose, said Smith.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 03, 2015, 02:58:18 PM
It has been stated that the murder weapon was an axe. And the fact that the accused had gone to a meeting with someone at the wharf, maybe on his way he discarded the weapon in the water, did anyone ever check that out. Where would his car have been parked to go to the wharf. I understand there is something around the timeline of his visit to the wharf and the time of the murder. Other then someone meeting up with him and taking the evidence and hiding it, where did he get rid of the weapon????

There was no meeting at the wharf; Dennis stated that he went to the wharf to see if his kids were there. They belong to the club close by and he thought they may have been swimming there. They weren't, so he continued on home.

The police and their dogs searched that area including diving on the wharf area, and also searched the ball field nearby and the woods surrounding the west side of the field.   

There is parking at the wharf, at the club, and at the ball field. It's about 300 meters from the wharf lot to the ball field lot, and the field is on the far side of that so it's some distance to the woods from the wharf. The police may have had some report of him being seen in that area as well and thus felt it worthwhile to search. On the other hand, it would also be possible to throw something from your car into the woods at the far south end of the ball field as you drive by; it's more of a lane than a road and is one of the two routes you would take coming from the city to the wharf.  It would be a bit odd to park at the field to check on kids at the wharf.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 03, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
Reply #197..... The article states that someone that looked like Dennis was seen at the water carrying a bag.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 03, 2015, 04:23:50 PM
Yes, the day after the murder a woman made a statement and was interviewed on tv stating she saw Dennis carrying a reusable shopping bag on the wharf, remove something from it, and then put it back. In her words, he looked suspicious.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 03, 2015, 06:55:29 PM
to quote Baysailor
Quote
On the other hand, it would also be possible to throw something from your car into the woods at the far south end of the ball field as you drive by; it's more of a lane than a road and is one of the two routes you would take coming from the city to the wharf.  It would be a bit odd to park at the field to check on kids at the wharf.
.

Where did Dennis park, according to the witness, do you know Baysailor?  What parking lot - by the wharf, possibly?
General parking lot, open to all - baseball diamond, the club, the wharf,  etc?

I have not come to any conclusion whether guilty or innocent regarding Dennis. That is up to the jury - and god bless them for their task ahead.


But I do know that often humans can be seen doing something quite innocently, and then their actions appear to be suspicious when tied in with a murder.

Even though the witness said that it looked suspicious at the time.  It might have looked a bit odd, in that someone taking something out of a bag, looking at it, and then placing it back in.

Wasn't Dennis given a log book by Dick's secretary to take home to give to his mother? Is it not possible that he took the log book out the bag to check to make sure that he was given the right item?
And if he was seen bending down in the bushes and picking something up, how could it be the murder weapon.
All things being equal if he left the premises after murdering his father, he would have the weapon with him, and would not bend down to pick it up.
Thanks in advance,

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 03, 2015, 08:05:03 PM

Where did Dennis park, according to the witness, do you know Baysailor? 

But I do know that often humans can be seen doing something quite innocently, and then their actions appear to be suspicious when tied in with a murder.

Even though the witness said that it looked suspicious at the time.  It might have looked a bit odd, in that someone taking something out of a bag, looking at it, and then placing it back in.

Wasn't Dennis given a log book by Dick's secretary to take home to give to his mother? Is it not possible that he took the log book out the bag to check to make sure that he was given the right item?
And if he was seen bending down in the bushes and picking something up, how could it be the murder weapon.
All things being equal if he left the premises after murdering his father, he would have the weapon with him, and would not bend down to pick it up.
Thanks in advance,

jb

I don't think the witness knew where he had parked as I believe she said he had exited the car before she noticed him. I can't say I see his behavior there as being obviously odd either, jb, but I also see no reason why he would have taken the log book with him when he walked to the wharf. If he was supposed to deliver it to his mother I would think you would leave it in the car, particularly if you might see your kids who are swimming.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 03, 2015, 09:01:19 PM
quote Baysailor
Quote
I don't think the witness knew where he had parked as I believe she said he had exited the car before she noticed him. I can't say I see his behavior there as being obviously odd either, jb, but I also see no reason why he would have taken the log book with him when he walked to the wharf. If he was supposed to deliver it to his mother I would think you would leave it in the car, particularly if you might see your kids who are swimming.

Touche - Good point! Why not leave it in the car. How far away was the bay from DO's office? Perhaps he parked in that area, but walked with bag in hand to wharf to look for kids?

(She did not see him leave his car). Perhaps he walked down to wharf from office with bag.

Weak argument at best?  at what time did she see him on the wharf, I wonder?

I wonder about the knapsack found in Dick's office, and that Pizza box!

Oh the mystery of it all!

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 03, 2015, 10:23:04 PM
Whomever did this murder, would have been covered in blood and tissue. It was by all accounts, as reported in the press, during trial that brutal.

No way would they walk away with four dna blood spots on jacket. jmo

Unless the killer went there late at nite, when Dick was still in the office burning the mid nite oil.


The timing of the thumps as reported by the printing staff downstairs is crucial.

The timing of witness seeing Dennis on wharf also crucial.

What dennis did with his time, even after been cvc at the store with wife and sister in law, is also crucial, and what the three of them did after that is also crucial.

It is all in the timing. in my opinion.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 03, 2015, 11:01:59 PM

(She did not see him leave his car). Perhaps he walked down to wharf from office with bag.

I wonder about the knapsack found in Dick's office, and that Pizza box!

Oh the mystery of it all!

jb

It's a good 10k from downtown Saint John to the Renforth wharf and a little less than 5 more to his house, so he would have had to drive. I wonder if his timeline for his arrival at the wharf and the witness's agree too, when the thumps were heard, and whether or not the defense will mention a shopping bag and a reason for having it.

As I mentioned before, the only rationale for the small amount of blood on the jacket is that he had taken it off in Dick's office (unless it was cleaned before it reached the drycleaner). It seems reasonable given it was a very hot day and then a few bits of blood splatter collected from afar make more sense. That still leaves a shirt, pants, and shoes that would have to be a mess, and would have to be changed before going home or being seen in Renforth.

They searched the wife's boat thoroughly which makes me think they must have some evidence that he was there post murder, whether later that evening, overnight, or whatever. The boat is kept in Millidgeville, back in the city, so he would have had to drive back in town to go there, a 20 minute drive or so.

I suspect the police know when the pizza was purchased and I too am curious as to that answer. Curiouser and curiouser!             
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 03, 2015, 11:27:38 PM


Baysailor thanks for your valuable input;

I have parsed some of Baysailors comments./jb
see his full post above.


"I wonder if his timeline for his arrival at the wharf and the witness's agree too, when the thumps were heard, and whether or not the defense will mention a shopping bag and a reason for having it.

. It seems reasonable given it was a very hot day and then a few bits of blood splatter collected from afar make more sense. That still leaves a shirt, pants, and shoes that would have to be a mess, and would have to be changed before going home or being seen in Renforth.

They searched the wife's boat thoroughly which makes me think they must have some evidence that he was there post murder, whether later that evening, overnight, or whatever. The boat is kept in Millidgeville, back in the city, so he would have had to drive back in town to go there, a 20 minute drive or so.

I suspect the police know when the pizza was purchased and I too am curious as to that answer. Curiouser and curiouser!"             
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 04, 2015, 05:28:07 AM
I also thought the jacket may have been removed and hung on a door or something, before the attack, hence a few (4 or so) blood drops.   Maybe a change of shirt/ shoes on hand....Dennis's wife says he went straight upstairs and changed when he got home, so she didn't see what he was wearing.....I wonder if going straight upstairs was in character.

Three accounts of Dennis wearing a brown jacket, which he denies wearing.
I'm sure the coroner would determine when and if Dick ate pizza....and what about the pizza delivery guy?  I'm sure he's been interviewed as to when he delivered it and who paid him.

I re-read Reply#197.....in that article is states that Dennis's Mom found the log book in the back hallway of the Rothesay home the next morning.....Why was it there and not given to Mom?

I am also curious if the trip to the dry cleaners was in character...If the family had a set schedule for taking in the dry cleaning and this load taken in was out of schedule).
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 04, 2015, 09:40:38 AM

I am also curious if the trip to the dry cleaners was in character...If the family had a set schedule for taking in the dry cleaning and this load taken in was out of schedule).

Yes, I believe this to be an extremely crucial point and trust that it has been analyzed thoroughly by the investigators.  More specifically, was there an ongoing & scheduled laundry service to the premises and if so -  was there any unusual change in the days immediately following the murder to these services?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 04, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
Good point regarding the logbook as well, jobo.  If she were not available to receive it at that time, I might have thought he would just deliver it later.  It was apparently something that meant a great deal to her so handing it to her personally would have seemed the thing to do.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 04, 2015, 12:24:17 PM
Hi to all posters;

You have raised some very valid points, and it is not looking good for Dennis is it?
I am playing the devil's advocate here, attempting to find plausible reasons for his behaviour.
I must admit, it is becoming difficult to do.

The sticking point with me is, whomever murdered Dick, would be covered in blood and tissue, not someone going
home and running upstairs to change. 

Would he not have to shower, and what about the tissue on him... to put it bluntly
brain matter, and slivers of skull.

And how would he even get home, run into the house, covered in this mess, without
being seen by the public, or neighbours, or even a family member. 

If he had to shower, and his clothes would be full of
this mess, including shoes, socks, shirt, etc. The whole incident would be spread on his apparel and footwear, not to mention
the bathroom.
This was a very bloody, messy murder.

About that log book, if my mother wasn't home, I would have left it in the hallway on a table, and called her later, to ensure
that she saw it, and has it.
Why keep it, and have to make another trip? He was given the log book to deliver, and he did. Obviously this log book
was not of importance to him.  It was something that his mother desired to receive, and he did as requested - he delivered it.

Being a dutiful son and all.

See what I mean, there are two sides of looking at everything.
Excellent point raised about dry cleaning schedule. That too, hopefully will come out in the wash.
And what about that knap sack? Who brought it there?  Did it belong to Richard?
jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 04, 2015, 12:51:24 PM
The sticking point with me is, whomever murdered Dick, would be covered in blood and tissue, not someone going
home and running upstairs to change. 

Would he not have to shower, and what about the tissue on him... to put it bluntly
brain matter, and slivers of skull.

And how would he even get home, run into the house, covered in this mess, without
being seen by the public, or neighbours, or even a family member. 

If he had to shower, and his clothes would be full of
this mess, including shoes, socks, shirt, etc. The whole incident would be spread on his apparel and footwear, not to mention
the bathroom.
This was a very bloody, messy murder.

About that log book, if my mother wasn't home, I would have left it in the hallway on a table, and called her later.
Why keep it, and have to make another trip? He was given the log book to deliver, and he did.
jb


All fair comments. As his house is well set back from the road and distant from neighbours normally no one would see him arrive home once he entered the driveway, however I don't think anyone with much blood on them would walk around the Renforth wharf which sees some activity in summer. It's a pretty spot and a community gathering place.

If it was Dennis one would think he would have to have cleaned up substantially in the office bathroom (or a bathroom) and/or changed clothes before departing for Renforth. I would think a conviction would require some stronger evidence of blood/ tissue either in the bathroom, his car, the boat, or on his clothes. Haven't seen that yet!   

Dry-cleaning pick up service was cancelled in Rothesy some time ago so it has to be dropped off these days. The pizza may well have been picked up by someone as Dick's office is downtown and close to many restaurants. It could have been leftovers from lunch, who knows at this point?   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 05, 2015, 10:25:49 AM


Dry-cleaning pick up service was cancelled in Rothesy some time ago so it has to be dropped off these days.

I know there was at least one service operating out that way and picking up at preferred customers homes - up until (at least) 2012.  Having said that, we don't even know if the defendant used a service or what the normal protocol was.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 05, 2015, 10:42:45 AM
Meanwhile ... the Jury continues to dwindle down:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3256629
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 05, 2015, 01:44:50 PM


Dry-cleaning pick up service was cancelled in Rothesy some time ago so it has to be dropped off these days.

I know there was at least one service operating out that way and picking up at preferred customers homes - up until (at least) 2012.  Having said that, we don't even know if the defendant used a service or what the normal protocol was.

Who is that? After City Laundry closed and New System stopped their service I thought that was it. That would be great.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 05, 2015, 02:35:16 PM
Okay, it was indeed City Laundry, my memory was off by a few months.  A quick Google suggests that they closed in late Septermber of 2011 .... which could still be critical in that they were still operating throughout the time of the murder.  I remember seeing their vans zipping in and out of driveways all the time, back then.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 05, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
I think the last thing the accused would do is to have anything dry cleaned that was worn if he committed the murder. Whatever he would do, dry cleaning would not take the blood out and the people would know what it was at the cleaners. So I do not believe he could be that stupid. If he was going to the wharf or whatever, it is the timeline in my mind that is when the sounds were heard at the office and when the accused got to the wharf and was seen there. I just wondered before and commented on how far his car was parked from the wharf and could he be seen by others walking to the wharf, was it a clear view from the restaurant or is it a well travelled area.  I really think he destroyed any evidence before he got to the wharf.  It would be very hard for him to go unnoticed getting rid of anything, because he had knew he was going there to see someone. So was this a pre-arranged appt he had at the wharf, I did think that was the case. So if it was pre- arranged, he certainly could not take a chance of getting rid of anything there in plain sight, he would be. If he committed this crime, he would know that these people would be questioned later on as to what his attitude was and did he do anything unusual. What makes me think he is the killer, is the fact that Richard Oland did not do any further work on his electronic devices, after his son visited him. So that could me that, he was not able to, that he was dead then.  The secretary that heard the sounds, that is the most crucial evidence of the time that Mr. Oland was killed. She must have nightmares to think that she was right there in the building at the time of the murder. Not knowing the layout of the wharf and where he parked his car, it is hard to know what went on there. Keep us posted on the news.  Just a footnote to all of this related to the dry cleaners: Is there evidence that he did send clothing to the dry cleaners, I may have missed that in the postings.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 05, 2015, 02:55:40 PM
quote Capeheart
Quote
"What makes me think he is the killer, is the fact that Richard Oland did not do any further work on his electronic devices, after his son visited him. So that could me that, he was not able to, that he was dead then."

I think it was the wife who sent the jacket to the cleaners... I think, not sure, Dennis hung it up in his closet when he changed.

At what time did the computers stop being in use? (I can't recall)  What time did Dennis leave the office?  I think the last person to leave was the
secretary, as her husband was waiting for her in the car, and he thought he saw Dennis leaving the building, while he waited for her.
But I don't recall that time either.

The noises were heard by the employees who worked in the Print Shop downstairs.  We have yet to hear from them, as to the time.

We have yet to learn the  time Dennis was seen at the wharf.
Dennis claims he went to the wharf to look for his kids.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 05, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
I think the last thing the accused would do is to have anything dry cleaned that was worn if he committed the murder. Whatever he would do, dry cleaning would not take the blood out and the people would know what it was at the cleaners. So I do not believe he could be that stupid. If he was going to the wharf or whatever, it is the timeline in my mind that is when the sounds were heard at the office and when the accused got to the wharf and was seen there. I just wondered before and commented on how far his car was parked from the wharf and could he be seen by others walking to the wharf, was it a clear view from the restaurant or is it a well travelled area.  I really think he destroyed any evidence before he got to the wharf.  It would be very hard for him to go unnoticed getting rid of anything, because he had knew he was going there to see someone. So was this a pre-arranged appt he had at the wharf, I did think that was the case. So if it was pre- arranged, he certainly could not take a chance of getting rid of anything there in plain sight, he would be. If he committed this crime, he would know that these people would be questioned later on as to what his attitude was and did he do anything unusual. What makes me think he is the killer, is the fact that Richard Oland did not do any further work on his electronic devices, after his son visited him. So that could me that, he was not able to, that he was dead then.  The secretary that heard the sounds, that is the most crucial evidence of the time that Mr. Oland was killed. She must have nightmares to think that she was right there in the building at the time of the murder. Not knowing the layout of the wharf and where he parked his car, it is hard to know what went on there. Keep us posted on the news.  Just a footnote to all of this related to the dry cleaners: Is there evidence that he did send clothing to the dry cleaners, I may have missed that in the postings.

Yes, indirectly though.  Apparently, he had his wife drop them off the next day to a local Dry Cleaner.

Quote
Crown attorney P.J. Veniot told the jury in his opening submission on Wednesday that despite witnesses who said he was wearing a brown jacket, Dennis Oland told police he had worn a blue blazer on July 6.

Veniot said Dennis Oland's wife Lisa took several garments, including two jackets, to the dry cleaner the day after her husband was questioned by police. Investigators later seized a brown sports jacket from Oland's home that had a dry cleaning tag attached.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/trial-hears-of-panic-vile-odour-when-richard-oland-s-body-found-1.2567656

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 05, 2015, 03:21:32 PM
These show the wharf where Dennis says he went looking for his kids, and was allegedly seen carrying the shopping bag. You can see the parking lot in the foreground.

In the second photo you can see the lane with the ball field and its parking lot on the left. Just past the multi-windowed building at the end of the photo are 2 tennis courts, the boat clubs and their small parking lots. Past these is the Renforth wharf after you have walked past a couple of houses on the waterside. It's a decent walk from the ball field to the main wharf, and in summer there is a fair bit of activity here with the rowers and kayakers, a few sailboats, walkers, and people picking up or dropping off kids. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 05, 2015, 05:33:09 PM
When Dennis went to visit his Dad, where is  the most logical place to park his car?

jb
ps. Re; picture of Wharf - Very pretty - place.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 05, 2015, 06:29:54 PM
When Dennis went to visit his Dad, where is  the most logical place to park his car?

jb
ps. Re; picture of Wharf - Very pretty - place.

It is a beautiful town. The drive through 'Old Rothesay' is as pretty a drive as there is in the Maritimes, IMHO. I think Snowhite will agree with me on that.

There is metered parking on both sides of the street in front of Dick's office so Dennis could have parked there when visiting him. It is a one way street in the direction one takes from Dennis's office so would be an easy fetch. On the other hand, since Dennis's office is only a 5 minute walk away (at most) if going to see his father he might just walk over from his own office (if that's indeed where he was) and then walk to his car after the meeting, which would probably be parked in the Brunswick Square parking garage which abuts his office building. Most folks who work there and drive in park there. 

I don't recall anyone mentioning seeing Dennis's car- the husband of Dick's secretary noted him walking in but I don't recall any mention of a vehicle there.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 05, 2015, 07:31:53 PM
The drive is definitely scenic along the Kennebecasis River and into Rothesay, proper.  One other thing is that people are very, very, traditional and the traffic is a steady flow within the rush hour and towards the bedroom communities of Rothesay, Quispamsis & Hampton.  However, at around 5:45pm it just seems to stop dead and the highway and exit ramps clear right off (ie. clear sailing) .... because 'supper' is usually at 6pm sharp ... not ten minutes before and not ten minutes after.  With that in mind, I'm quite interested to get the rest of the timeline pieces to the puzzle as to his itinerary that day.  Sure looks like he was wearing a 'brown' not blue jacket that day and according to the court exhibit (see link below). His hair was a different color back then, too.   

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 05, 2015, 08:31:33 PM
Taken from the link provided by Snow white

"Bathroom sink tested positive for blood

Smith told the court Monday that a swab of the sink of the bathroom located in the foyer outside Richard Oland's second-floor office at 52 Canterbury St., had tested positive for blood during a preliminary test.

The swab, which turned "greenish-blue" when a chemical called leucomalachite (LMG) was applied, was sent away to the RCMP for further analysis and submitted as an exhibit.

The jury heard last week that a paper towel seized from the garbage can in that bathroom had also indicated the possible presence of blood and was later tested by the RCMP.

Smith did not discuss any of the findings on Monday, which was his third day of testimony. The Crown will call DNA experts to testify later in the trial, the courtroom heard.

DNA samples from other people, some of which were obtained surreptitiously, were also marked as exhibits in the trial.

Among them were "castoff" samples for Derek Oland, who is Richard Oland's brother and the executive chairman of Moosehead Breweries. The samples were obtained from a fork and drinking glass from the Bourbon Quarter restaurant in Saint John, said Smith.

Similarly, police seized a straw used by Bob McFadden, who also worked at Oland's office, was co-executor of his will and ended up taking over as president of the Far End Corporation. The straw was obtained from East Side Mario's, Smith said.

A consent DNA sample was also obtained from McFadden's son, Galen, he said.

Smith did not explain on Monday why the other DNA samples were obtained.

iPhone cable was tested

The USB cord for Richard Oland's iPhone is another exhibit in the case.

Smith said he tested it for fingerprints, but couldn't get enough detail. He subsequently swabbed the cord for DNA, he said.

Tech crime analysts previously testified that the iPhone was connected to Richard Oland's main office computer until 4:44 p.m., on July 6, 2011.

The iPhone was the only item that disappeared from the office and was never located.

A red Sobeys Compliments reusable grocery bag, which was seized from the trunk of Dennis Oland's Volkswagon Golf and tested for latent traces of blood, was also submitted.

Richard Oland's secretary's husband, William Adamson, previously testified to seeing a man wearing a brown jacket enter the office on July 6, 2011, carrying a bag matching that description.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 06, 2015, 09:01:27 AM
I am completely stunned by this, it seems so unbelievably incompetent, inept, call it what you will. Am I being too harsh?

"Saint John police officers had been using the washroom located outside Richard Oland's office for two days before it was tested forensically, Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial heard on Tuesday".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-bathroom-1.3258375
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 06, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Not too harsh at all, BaySailor.  It's totally unbelievable.

The Defence seems to receive one gift after another.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 06, 2015, 11:16:47 AM
I am completely stunned by this, it seems so unbelievably incompetent, inept, call it what you will. Am I being too harsh?

"Saint John police officers had been using the washroom located outside Richard Oland's office for two days before it was tested forensically, Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial heard on Tuesday".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-bathroom-1.3258375

I also agree that this is unbelievably incompetent. It looks like the investigation was bungled from the beginning.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 06, 2015, 11:19:59 AM

Not too harsh at all, BaySailor.  It's totally unbelievable.

The Defence seems to receive one gift after another.


Things are looking up for Dennis. Every photo of him that I have seen, shows a slight smile, ---- he might be grinning today!

Forensic labs - inability to test all of the items within a decent span of time, (some items had to be kept in a freezer, until the lab could receive these for testing - some as long as one year)  is in Dennis' favour IMO. 
Good opening there, for contamination, disintegration etc. for the defence.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 06, 2015, 12:07:07 PM
Yes, it sounds like the Police screwed up, somewhat.  Even if the investigator didn't have his testing kits with him and had to go back to the station with him.....he should have thought to bag the back door.
And, of course, the bathroom should have been out of bounds until forensically tested.

I'm sure the coroner could pinpoint the time of Dick's death (did he eat pizza? And, when? Was it digested?).
Didn't I read that CCTV captured someone that looked like Dennis coming and going from the office? ( front door)
What time?
What time was he seen at the wharf?
The log book in the back hallway of parents' house is what stymies me.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 06, 2015, 12:42:27 PM
Didn't I read that CCTV captured someone that looked like Dennis coming and going from the office? ( front door)
What time?
What time was he seen at the wharf?
The log book in the back hallway of parents' house is what stymies me.

Yes, there was cctv of him in the neighborhood but I'm not sure it was that close to the office, and I'm not sure there was any footage of him leaving. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728


I could see him dropping the log book off in the hall late in the evening. I'm sure he would have a key. Their backyards are only a couple of hundred yards apart if you walk the back lane.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 06, 2015, 01:22:24 PM
When posting facts (about the murder or the investigation) that are not included in a link that has been posted, please cite a source. If the facts are included in a link that has been previously posted, please either repost the link in your comment or quote the reply #. With so much being said as the testimony continues, hearsay will only confuse things. We have no way of confirming.
 

Thanks,
Debbie
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 06, 2015, 02:30:32 PM
Quote
Yes, it sounds like the Police screwed up, somewhat.  Even if the investigator didn't have his testing kits with him and had to go back to the station with him.....he should have thought to bag the back door.
And, of course, the bathroom should have been out of bounds until forensically tested.

I'm sure the coroner could pinpoint the time of Dick's death (did he eat pizza? And, when? Was it digested?).
Didn't I read that CCTV captured someone that looked like Dennis coming and going from the office? ( front door)
What time?
What time was he seen at the wharf?
The log book in the back hallway of parents' house is what stymies me.


I would expect the witness who saw Dennis at the wharf will be called to testify as to the time at some point, jobo.  She hasn't yet.  Also, the individual(s) downstairs who heard the thumps and scuffling sounds from above will be testifying.  The timing of those will be critical, I should think.

   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 06, 2015, 04:07:02 PM
Thanks Baysailor, RubyRose and others who are very familiar with the area for your valuable input.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dennis-oland-murder-trial-examines-forensic-evidence-1.2597289

(here is more information about the forensic evidence so far)
I feel a bit sorry for Lead Detective Smith who was thrown into this murder on his first day on the job/jb.

The following is taken from the above link.

Smith, who collected more than 560 pieces of forensic evidence, was testifying for the fourth day.

During cross-examination, defence lawyer Gary Miller asked Smith if he had instructed other officers on how not to contaminate the crime scene when he left the building on July 7.

Smith said "no."

Miller said one would expect the other officers would know what not to do.

"It would be implied," Smith said.

Earlier in the day, Smith described for the Court of Queen's Bench the search for blood in Dennis Oland's Volkswagen Golf more than a week after the body was discovered.

Smith testified that 11 locations in the car were tested for possible blood using a hemastick on July 14, 2011, but only a few gave weak or very weak indications.

Other tests using chemical sprays to show the presence of blood produced no results at all.

Smith said a red reusable grocery bag was seized from the trunk, along with a number of receipts and other papers from the interior of the car.

For much of the day Smith described his collection of various DNA samples in Richard Oland's office three days after the murder.

He says he found blood spatter almost three metres from where the businessman's body was found, and in some cases almost two metres from the floor.

The court has been told that Oland was killed in a violent outburst that resulted in 40 blows to his head and neck.

Smith was also asked by the Crown about geometric patterns seen in the pool of blood on the floor. He said he initially thought it was left by the footwear of a police officer when the body was moved, but later saw the pattern in pictures of the scene that were taken before the body was removed.

Smith said additional efforts to try to identify the possible footprints were unsuccessful because of "insufficient detail."

The Crown introduced more photos from 52 Canterbury Street, including some of the door to the back alley, that the defence has called a possible exit for the killer.

Smith said the photos of the door and its deadbolt weren't taken until July and August of this year because it had been "overlooked" in 2011.

Earlier in the trial, the court was told that no effort was made to seek fingerprints from the door because police officers had already opened it.

The day ended with the defence showing pictures of blood spatter on the floor, furniture and other items in Oland's office.

"There were hundreds of blood stain spots at the crime scene?" Miller asked Smith, to which Smith answered. "Correct."

"High and low? It appeared to go in every direction?" Miller asked, again getting affirmative responses.

The cross examination continues on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 06, 2015, 06:26:24 PM
Well I do believe that anything related to the bathroom evidence should not have even been entered, if it was. They should have just had that part eliminated, because it is kind of worthless, if everybody was using the bathroom for two days before anything was done regaarding any DNA.   :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 06, 2015, 07:56:56 PM

Apparently, regardless of any contamination, the blood in the bathroom sink, and the bloody paper towels found in the bathroom garbage are deemed important exhibits, as indicated in the the following blogs:


Robert Jones
@cbcjones


Blood in the sink is potentially important for the Crown. The defence has suggested killer should have lots of blood on him. #nb


Robert Jones
@cbcjones


A post murder wash up in the sink could help the crown explain a lack of blood evidence elsewhere.#nb


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3256629


 

 



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 06, 2015, 08:34:29 PM

I believe it was BaySailor who made mention of Dennis going to his wife's boat --was it the next day after the murder?  Although LE's search warrant listed "geneology papers/books/documents" the Crown kept DNA swabs that were taken of ignition keys, cabin doors, fuel cans, scrub brushes, sinks, a red stain on the sink and other parts of the boat, the documents say.

It would be interesting to know if the boat was taken out for a sail.  It would have been easy to dispose of bloody clothes and a murder weapon while off shore.  Time will tell if the above samples will be used as Crown evidence. 


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/son-named-as-suspect-in-murder-of-new-brunswick-businessman-richard-oland-court-documents (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/son-named-as-suspect-in-murder-of-new-brunswick-businessman-richard-oland-court-documents)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 09:40:16 AM

I believe it was BaySailor who made mention of Dennis going to his wife's boat --was it the next day after the murder?  Although LE's search warrant listed "geneology papers/books/documents" the Crown kept DNA swabs that were taken of ignition keys, cabin doors, fuel cans, scrub brushes, sinks, a red stain on the sink and other parts of the boat, the documents say.


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/son-named-as-suspect-in-murder-of-new-brunswick-businessman-richard-oland-court-documents (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/son-named-as-suspect-in-murder-of-new-brunswick-businessman-richard-oland-court-documents)

Dennis had a gas receipt in the car from the morning after the murder suggesting he was in Millidgeville then. The service station is about a about a mile from the yacht club where the boat was searched. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-bathroom-1.3258375


Looks like Dennis was at his father's office for an hour or so, until 6:00, so the timeline is beginning to appear....


"Robert Jones
@cbcjones

Miller showing security camera video that appears to show Dennis Oland leaving his fathers office out the front door shortly after 6pm."
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 07, 2015, 10:53:48 AM
Quote
Dennis had a gas receipt in the car from the morning after the murder suggesting he was in Millidgeville then. The service station is about a about a mile from the yacht club where the boat was searched.

I have read the article at the link provided in the post directly above, and found that it refers to the receipt only as being from around the time Richard Oland's body was discovered, and is not specific as to what day or time the gas was purchased.   

Taken from link above:
Quote
Some items were seized from the car, including a receipt from an Irving station in Saint John's north end, which was found in the passenger side door and was from around the time Richard Oland's body was discovered.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 11:14:38 AM
Quote
Dennis had a gas receipt in the car from the morning after the murder suggesting he was in Millidgeville then. The service station is about a about a mile from the yacht club where the boat was searched.

I have read the article at the link provided in the post directly above, and found that it refers to the receipt only as being from around the time Richard Oland's body was discovered, and is not specific as to what day or time the gas was purchased.   

Taken from link above:
Quote
Some items were seized from the car, including a receipt from an Irving station in Saint John's north end, which was found in the passenger side door and was from around the time Richard Oland's body was discovered.

Let me try this....


Robert Jones ‏@cbcjones  · Oct 6 
"On the 15th Smith says he finds a(sic) seizes a receipt in the car from the Millidgeville Irving dated the morning after the murder on July 7."

I think the link I showed originally had the blog attached and now the blog has been removed and attached to today's story. My apologies.

Thus, when they state in the CBC edited story 'around the time Richard Oland's body was discovered' they are referring to the time of that particular day.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 07, 2015, 11:18:07 AM
Yes, I guess the fact that it was the victim's blood, it could be entered as evidence. But it depends on how much blood and what the defense does in arguments about that evidence, because of the crime scene not being secured in the initial stages of the investigation. The fact he was seen there that day and the timeline, I guess it all comes down to those facts. I believe there is a good chance of him being convicted, according to some of the evidence against him.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 07, 2015, 01:25:46 PM
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/richard-oland-crime-scene-was-among-bloodiest-officer-had-seen-1.2599088

(The CBC live coverage of the trial via tweets from reporters cannot be given here.  Look for tomorrow's headlines regarding the dna tested blood found in the washroom. Big surprise there!/jb

The Canadian Press
 Published Wednesday, October 7, 2015 9:30AM EDT 
 Last Updated Wednesday, October 7, 2015 11:42AM EDT 


SAINT JOHN, N.B. -- A forensic identification officer with the Saint John police department says some of the 40 blows to the head of Richard Oland were caused by a hammer-type instrument while others were inflicted with a blade-like weapon.

Sgt. Mark Smith is facing cross-examination today in the second-degree murder trial of Dennis Oland in New Brunswick's Court of Queen's Bench.

 

Smith says the blade-like weapon left wounds that were six to seven centimetres long.

Oland, who was 69, was found lying in a pool of blood in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011.

Under questioning from defence lawyer Gary Miller, Smith said it was one of the bloodiest crime scenes he had ever seen.

"Would you agree there was a great deal of force used?," Miller asked.

"It would be an opinion, yes," Smith replied.

The murder weapon has never been found.

Miller questioned Smith about a logbook that Maureen Adamson -- Richard Oland's secretary -- had given Dennis Oland the evening of July 6, 2011 to deliver to his mother. During earlier testimony, Adamson had indicated the logbook was left on a table in the middle of the office.

The court has been shown pictures of blood spatter on that table, but Smith has testified all tests on the logbook were negative for the presence of blood.

Miller asked Smith that if the logbook has been in the office at the time of the crime, would it possibly have blood on it.

"A possibility, yes," Smith answered.

Many of Miller's questions Wednesday focused on Smith's examination of Dennis Oland's silver Volkswagen Golf and a red reusable grocery bag in the trunk.

Smith said the car was searched for almost 16 hours and a number of different tests were conducted but there were no positive tests confirming any blood.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 07, 2015, 02:45:42 PM

Quote from jb's above post:

"A forensic identification officer with the Saint John police department says some of the 40 blows to the head of Richard Oland were caused by a hammer-type instrument while others were inflicted with a blade-like weapon."

Debbie provided the link below some time ago.  I have bumped it up since it is relevant to current trial testimony.

Tom Oland, Dick's cousin and one of many Olands police interrogated after the murder, said he was asked whether he owned a drywall hammer--a small construction tool with an axe-like blade on one end. 
Quote from link below "The only weapon they mentioned was a drywall hammer", said Mr. Oland, speculating "that's what must have killed Dick."

Based on the description of the injuries, a drywall hammer seems to be the logical weapon.






http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/)




Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 07, 2015, 03:26:04 PM
So we now also possibly know Dennis' whereabouts at 6:12 on the evening in question.  If he is guilty (and I'm not totally convinced one way or the other), it appears less and less that the murder was committed early in the evening. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 07, 2015, 03:58:04 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/forensic-officer-testifies-in-dennis-oland-murder-trial/article26709041/


excerpt:

The court had earlier been told that a stained piece of paper towel and the sink in a bathroom near Oland’s office had tested positive for possible blood. Under cross-examination, Smith said the blood was traced to the son of Oland’s business associate, Bob McFadden, and it dated from before the crime.

Miller said the police seized eight pairs of shoes from Dennis Oland’s home to be tested for traces of blood.

Smith confirmed that no blood was found on any of them.

The defence introduced two pieces of security camera video showing a man who appears to be Dennis Oland, but didn’t explain the significance of either video — each lasting just a matter of seconds.

The first one shows a person wearing a brown sports coat and carrying a red shopping bag walking in front of Thandi’s restaurant, across the street from Richard Oland’s office at 6:12 p.m. on July 6, 2011. That’s about 30 minutes after the time Richard Oland’s secretary said she left Dennis and Richard discussing genealogy at the office.

The second video shows a person who appears to be Dennis Oland entering a Kent’s building supplies store in Saint John at 8:08 a.m. on July 7, 2011. The person is wearing a blue blazer.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 04:11:53 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/forensic-officer-testifies-in-dennis-oland-murder-trial/article26709041/


The first one shows a person wearing a brown sports coat and carrying a red shopping bag walking in front of Thandi’s restaurant, across the street from Richard Oland’s office at 6:12 p.m. on July 6, 2011. That’s about 30 minutes after the time Richard Oland’s secretary said she left Dennis and Richard discussing genealogy at the office.

Yes, above I had said he was there for about an hour, but it's about a half an hour, or 40 minutes. Thanks for correcting that, JB.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 07, 2015, 04:20:19 PM
Pretty close tho Baysailor.


All of our discussion as to the blood in the washroom, it turns out that the dna of that blood belonged to someone else.
Is it possible that Dennis got his days confused as to his outfits?   I mean, it would be very easy to do. I'll give Dennis the benefit of the doubt on that one/jb  Taken from post 252

Quote
Police were also curious about discrepancies between what Dennis claimed to be wearing when he visited his father – a navy blazer, khaki dress pants, dark brown dress shoes and a blue, white-collared dress shirt – and other evidence they’d gathered.

 Security cameras at Dennis’s Wood Gundy office showed him leaving the building that day wearing a brown sports jacket and beige pants. The police also had a witness, Bill Adamson, Maureen’s husband, who’d been waiting outside the office in his car for his wife to finish work. He saw a man wearing a dark brown sports jacket and light-coloured pants carrying a red, environmentally friendly grocery-style bag enter 52 Canterbury. Adamson did not see the man’s face so he couldn’t identify him.

Taken from post 344

Quote
The second video shows a person who appears to be Dennis Oland entering a Kent’s building supplies store in Saint John at 8:08 a.m. on July 7, 2011. The person is wearing a blue blazer.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 07, 2015, 05:02:38 PM
So we now also possibly know Dennis' whereabouts at 6:12 on the evening in question.  If he is guilty (and I'm not totally convinced one way or the other), it appears less and less that the murder was committed early in the evening.

I agree RubyRose.  If Dennis is responsible, I can't see him having the  time to do it and clean himself up during his earlier half hour visit.  I suspect that we will learn that the thumping noises heard from Dick's office occurred later that night.  That would explain why there was no blood found on the logbook, red grocery bag or in his car.   It would also suggest that it was premeditated due to the extra care of not getting blood on everything.  But if LE are banking on him killing Dick between 5:45 and 6:12--they have a lot of explaining to do on how that was possible. imo
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 07, 2015, 05:27:21 PM
I would tend to agree in wake of the developing timeline.  On the other hand, all one would have to do is have a drywall hammer and disposal coveralls in said red bag,  go in and visit, say goodbyes, slip coveralls on in the hallway, re-enter, do the dirty work, slip coveralls off, put weapon and coveralls in bag, documentation in another plastic bag and leave. Unlikely, calculating, but it could easily be done.  As for the red bag not showing any trace of DNA .... those bags are literally a dime a dozen (vicious clones, if you will), most of us have several in possession these days, and the bag could easily have been switched later that evening.



http://www.amazon.com/Disposible-Coveralls-Plastic-Suit-XLarge/dp/B000X552EG
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 06:34:22 PM
  those bags are literally a dime a dozen (vicious clones, if you will), most of us have several in possession these days,

I have half a dozen in my trunk that I invariably forget to bring in to the grocery store with me. They look brand new. 


As to the timeline, I think if Dennis was poking around the Renforth wharf shortly after the 6:15 departure from the office and the prosecution was searching that area they must have thought it possible the crime could have been committed in that short period.

The idea that anyone could take the time to don a coverall before walking in and butchering your father seems so cold, man, that's hard to grasp. It seems unlikely to me too, but so does such a violent murder as it was. I wonder if anybody at Dick's office was fussy enough to require shoe removal when they entered?     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 07, 2015, 06:43:15 PM
Taken from post 344

"The second video shows a person who appears to be Dennis Oland entering a Kent’s building supplies store in Saint John at 8:08 a.m. on July 7, 2011. The person is wearing a blue blazer."

Now, so far I am not convinced that D is the perp.  But, since we are coming up with possibilities.

And being a devil's advocate; 

Who would line up at a building supply store at 8:08 a.m? What a wonderful way to get rid of a murder weapon.
Clean it up, go into into the supply store and leave the weapon in amongst other "hammers, or whatever just like it"
Cops would be looking for a possible murder weapon on property, etc, etc, but would they ever think of looking there - they were and still are not sure as to what was used.

The reverse of shop lifting.   ;)jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 07:11:46 PM

Who would line up at a building supply store at 8:08 a.m? What a wonderful way to get rid of a murder weapon.
Clean it up, go into into the supply store and leave the weapon in amongst other "hammers, or whatever just like it"
Cops would be looking for a possible murder weapon on property, etc, etc, but would they ever think of looking there - they were and still are not sure as to what was used.

The reverse of shop lifting.   ;)jb

Prospective murderers across the country are reading that and taking notes! That's brilliant jb, it really is!

Since the victim's head wounds

 "were round and about three centimetres in diameter with a pattern in them, while others were long and slender as if made by a sharp instrument, he said", per...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-oland-murder-door-fingerprints-1.3253805

it certainly seems consistent with a drywall hammer, which is dimpled and dull on the hammer side of the head and sharp on the 
other side for scoring drywall.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 07, 2015, 08:17:34 PM
It is almost as tho Dick was taken by surprise sitting down. Going by the blows to head and neck one would think so.

I wonder about the layout of his office. I read that leading into his office there were glass doors.  Which way would his desk face - the glass door,
or was he facing a wall, with a swivel chair perhaps?

The layout of his office would be important to know. The back door would be a good entry point - if the back door was wide open.

Being an historic bldg., I wonder if it even had air conditioning.

Apparently there was a terrible foul odor in the room, due to the murder, so I picture the room to be very warm, which hastened deterioration of the remains.Since the rule was, last one out locked the doors.  Dick may have unlocked that back door himself and opened it up, as well as his glass doors.
He was murdered in July, and the secretary did note that the day was warm, too warm to wear a wool jacket (her observation of Dennis's apparel.
If his office was enclosed, Dick might have had the habit of opening the back door and his glass doors to allow fresh air into his end of the bldg. while he worked.

Just a thought.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 07, 2015, 08:31:34 PM
It is almost as tho Dick was taken by surprise sitting down. Going by the blows to head and neck one would think so.

I wonder about the layout of his office. I read that leading into his office there were glass doors.  Which way would his desk face - the glass door,
or was he facing a wall, with a swivel chair perhaps?

The layout of his office would be important to know. The back door would be a good entry point - if the dead bolt was not used.
Apparently there was a terrible foul odor in the room, so I picture the room to be very warm, and quite possible that Dick opened the back door to
allow a breeze and fresh air to come through.  This might have been a habit of his? I doubt if that old bldg. had air conditioning.
Since the rule was, last one out locked the doors.  Dick may have unlocked that back door himself and opened it up, as well as his glass doors.
That is what I would do, if the quarters were close, hot and sticky.
He was murdered in July, and the secretary did note that the day was warm, too warm to wear a wool jacket (her observation of Dennis's apparel.
Just a thought.
jb

They did have a/c in the office...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-body-discovered-1.3232115

'according to Adamson. She says she noted what he was wearing because it was such a hot day and the air conditioner "was blasting."'

and this particular article also shows the layout of the office.

The back door is off of the hallway, or foyer, outside the suite, as was the bathroom, per

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-bathroom-1.3258375
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 07, 2015, 08:54:04 PM
JB's reverse shop lifting theory is clearly the work of a devious, criminal mind.  lol 

Do we know if Dennis went to work on Thursday, and if he was late?  That info could rule out him having time to take the boat out, although he could have motored a short distance from the slip to successfully dispose of evidence. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 12:13:16 AM
Re: Phones.  Dick also had a land line phone in his office with speed dial - and I assume his secretary also.
One would hope these lines were checked for calls in and calls out to who and what time.
What happened to Dick's corporation after he was murdered - who took it over??
Leaving out court room tweets by the two cbc reporters who sat during the trial and covering the trial, is there an article that could be posted giving these answers??
Can anyone find one? - I am not having much luck.

Does this corporation still exist, and is the secretary still working within it today?
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 08, 2015, 12:36:00 AM
I noticed a post a ways back (reply #335) by Have Faith, in which she had quoted tweets. Instead of linking to twitter she had posted the link to the newspaper article that they were included in. That works.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 01:37:35 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3258375

I found part of the answer

snippet from article.

The computer in question was located at a spare desk in the office, which was being used that summer by Galen McFadden, who was helping Oland with a family tree project he was working on by scanning old photographs and other material.

McFadden is the son of Robert McFadden, who worked in Oland's office, was co-executor of Oland's will and went on to become the president of Far End Corporation, the court has heard.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 02:07:02 AM
What happened to Dick's corporation after he was murdered - who took it over??
Does this corporation still exist, and is the secretary still working within it today?
jb

The answer to the last question was twittered by a CBC reporter and I do remember an article that answered the first two questions but I cannot find it. I can pm you if you like but not respond with a source.

{edit} I see you found some info! There is also information published somewhere that states Dennis' involvement (if any) in the business and whether or not he has an office there, and there is a CBC tweet regarding the secretary. 

 In regards to a previous question, here is a pic of the hallway/foyer at Far end....

 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 08, 2015, 02:47:43 AM
Jellybean...what is happening to us??   Last night I was thinking along the same lines as you.....who's to say the weapon was not cleaned off and placed on the shelf in the building supply store?
I thought, wow, I am getting pretty diabolical in my thinking, but then you posted the same thoughts....

But it IS possible....and it would probably be possible to check security cameras in the store to see if that possibly happened.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 08, 2015, 05:26:38 AM

Since it was the Defence who drew attention to these security tapes, jellybean and jobo, they would probably cringe at your ingenious suggestion.  It would certainly have been highly risky and I would think not too many people around at that hour of the morning (my own preferred hour for shopping for just that very reason), so might well have drawn attention from staff.  Unfortunately, I would doubt that tapes from that long ago would still be available.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 08, 2015, 07:53:39 AM
It's too risky to walk back into a store with the murder weapon.  Hard enough to leave the dregs of you coffee on a store shelf without somebody catching you.  Even at Kent's or Canadian Tire were customer isle service is at a minimum.  More likely to have been flung into the Renforth bog, a massive swampy swale along the highway & just above the Renforth Wharf where the defendant is alleged to have been seen that evening.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 08, 2015, 09:23:29 AM
I hadn't considered that area, Snowhite, although it could certainly be a possibility.  I was leaning more towards dumping it in Saint John Harbour or even Courtenay Bay, parts of which would be easily accessible and, depending upon the hour, there would be little risk of being seen.  I have often walked down Water Street quite late at night and have never seen a car much less another person.  Of course, it's all pure speculation......
I do know from personal experience that some of the business establishments along Water Street do use surveillance cameras but I'm not sure how much, if anything, of value would actually be picked up.  The Port bldgs are probably equipped with fairly sophisticated equipment, I would think.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 11:42:06 AM
Jellybean...what is happening to us??   Last night I was thinking along the same lines as you.....who's to say the weapon was not cleaned off and placed on the shelf in the building supply store?
I thought, wow, I am getting pretty diabolical in my thinking, but then you posted the same thoughts....

But it IS possible....and it would probably be possible to check security cameras in the store to see if that possibly happened.

Ha Ha,  Well, if two people came up with the same idea of disposing a weapon, then it must be feasible, at the very least!!
The murder itself is diabolical so it takes diabolical, sneaky thinking.  I would call it sneaky more than anything.  ;)

If a potential perp needed an item from the hardware store, pick it up after work, or have his wife pick it up.  Don't tell me that a perp needed it for the office.   I am sure that they had maintenance people to take care of everything, and even office supplies would be provided by a large corporation.

I have been into stores early am and the staff are not alert.  In fact they are "somewhere but where?" Nothing stopping him from dropping it off in a bin or shelf, and purchasing a different item along the same wall.

Snow White and Ruby Rose, both of you know that area very well, and in all likelihood it was disposed of in water somewhere.
I wonder though, if the perp would chance someone stumbling across it, or to what lengths le would go to locate a suspicious item?
(I know the answers to my past questions, re: Corporation, and will provide the link using Have Faith's formula.) Thanks Have Faith & debbiec.
Also, the inventory of what was in the re-usable grocery bag. (Perfectly innocent stuff)

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 08, 2015, 12:14:14 PM
The accused is charged with SDM, which means it was not premeditated. So if this was a crime of opportunity in an argument that ended in murder, then maybe the axe was part of articles that were in the building. Such as it could have been a fire axe that are in some of those buildings and especially that it was an old building and could have been part of the emergency fire equipment. This axe may have been in Richard's office in some place and was just a weapon that was right there to pick up. If it could be proven that he went there with an axe, then he would be charged with FDM and that would be premeditation. That he went there with the thought of axing his father to death. So the weapon, where did it come from????
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 12:26:03 PM

(I know the answers to my past questions, re: Corporation, and will provide the link using Have Faith's formula.) jb

The link shows Dennis' involvement in the company?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 12:44:20 PM
The accused is charged with SDM, which means it was not premeditated. So if this was a crime of opportunity in an argument that ended in murder, then maybe the axe was part of articles that were in the building. Such as it could have been a fire axe that are in some of those buildings and especially that it was an old building and could have been part of the emergency fire equipment. This axe may have been in Richard's office in some place and was just a weapon that was right there to pick up. If it could be proven that he went there with an axe, then he would be charged with FDM and that would be premeditation. That he went there with the thought of axing his father to death. So the weapon, where did it come from????
I agree. If the police asked Tom Oland if he owned a drywall axe (often called a drywall hammer) they must be unsure as to the murder weapon's provenance, eg whether or not one was missing from any renovators in the area, etc., per:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-inscrutable-murder-of-a-magnate/article557606/

I also think that they would know very quickly if a fire axe was missing, and a fire axe doesn't have a dimpled piece  to match the pattern  impressions on the victim, and thus two weapons would have to be used per the autopsy report. I gotta think, given Tom's comment, that they feel pretty sure it was a drywaller's tool.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 02:24:33 PM
Here it is;  Maureen Adamson is on the witness stand.

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC

Richard Oland's office was renovated after the "incident," says secretary Maureen Adamson #nb

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC

Floor was redone, it was repainted, "everything was refinished," at direction of Bob McFadden, she says #nb

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC


She continued to work Far End Corp, after Richard's death. McFadden became president. Dennis became director, she says #nb

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-body-discovered-1.3232115


Bolding is mine/jb


 






Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 08, 2015, 03:02:10 PM
Thank you, jellybean.  I had wondered about this, too.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 03:19:52 PM
Yw RubyRose.

Now about that bag;

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
BJM@CBC

Miller asking Smith about red reusable grocery bag seized from trunk of Dennis' car. Smith says he got "positive presumptive tests" from bag

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
BJM@CBC


..."but nothing confirmatory for blood." Swabs were sent to RCMP over following year for further analysis for blood/DNA? asks Miller. Yes

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
BJM@CBC


Jury looking at photos of contents of the red reusable grocery bag.

Robert Jones
@cbcjones

Miller asking about the Our Compliments grocery bag seized from the trunk of Dennis Oland's car.

Robert Jones
@cbcjones

Smith says the bag was tested but no significant forensic evidence was detected.

Robert Jones
@cbcjones

Miller reading a list of the contents of the bag - a book about England, maps of English locations, notes about genealogy research.




Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 08, 2015, 03:25:46 PM
Likely contents all taken to the meeting he had with his father on the fateful day.  Mrs. Adamson had testified they were quite engrossed in this conversation at the time she left, so much so, neither said good night to her.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 04:16:57 PM
Something is a bit confusing to me about the timeline re: when Dennis was seen leaving the bldg.
quote RubyRose Posst 370 - "Mrs. Adamson had testified they were quite engrossed in this conversation at the time she left, so much so, neither said good night to her".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet, her husband who was waiting outside in their car, saw who looked like DO leaving the bldg first.
So at the very least,, DO did not stay with Richard for very long, after MA left the office.
MA was obviously still in the bldg. (I think she said that she stopped at the printing shop to chat with someone)

-and-
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-blood-dna-1.3262170


Dennis Oland's blood, DNA not found on Richard Oland's body

Sgt. Mark Smith, head of forensics, testifies accused's blood, DNA not found at crime scene either

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 08, 2015 1:41 PM AT| Last Updated: Oct 08, 2015 2:37 PM AT

No blood or DNA identified as being Dennis Oland's was found on Richard Oland's body, or in the office where he was killed, the head of the Saint John Police Force's forensic identification unit testified on Thursday.

Sgt. Mark Smith also confirmed under cross-examination that he has no information about any blood or DNA identified as being Richard Oland's ever being found in or on Dennis Oland's car, or many of the items seized from his Rothesay home.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If all the above is true, and holds up ----------
Holy cow, why was Dennis charged in the first place?


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 08, 2015, 04:32:47 PM
According to her testimony, jellybean, she left them together approx 5:45PM.  Her husband would have been outside waiting to pick her up.  Dennis had told police he left around 6:00PM and indeed he was picked up by the security camera across the street leaving by the front entrance at 6:12 PM.  According to this timeline he would have been in the office less than half an hour after Mrs. Adamson left.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 05:04:40 PM
Then - Mr. Adamson did not see DO leave the bldg.? Is it possible he saw someone else who looked like DO?  do you see where I am confused?
It was very early on in the investigation..... I (sigh) will have to find it - unless someone else can locate it..... Any takers?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/photos

Pictures of the crime scene in the above link.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 08, 2015, 05:46:34 PM
Then - Mr. Adamson did not see DO leave the bldg.? Is it possible he saw someone else who looked like DO?  do you see where I am confused?
It was very early on in the investigation..... I (sigh) will have to find it - unless someone else can locate it..... Any takers?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/photos

Pictures of the crime scene in the above link.

jb


Mr. Adamson saw a man ENTERING the office building while he waited in his car for his wife.  Although he didn't see his face, he had the same clothes as described by his wife (secretary) and the red grocery bag.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 07:29:22 PM
Here it is;  Maureen Adamson is on the witness stand.

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC

Richard Oland's office was renovated after the "incident," says secretary Maureen Adamson #nb

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC

Floor was redone, it was repainted, "everything was refinished," at direction of Bob McFadden, she says #nb

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC


She continued to work Far End Corp, after Richard's death. McFadden became president. Dennis became director, she says #nb

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-body-discovered-1.3232115


Bolding is mine/jb

At odds with the testimony of Mrs. Adamson (whose testimony seemed very straightforward and honest to me) is the Saint John Board of Trade's notation and CBC blog comment that Dennis was a director of Far End prior to Richards death (but not actively involved in it), and that the clean-up and renos post murder included making office space for Dennis. The officers and directors are listed on the NB gov'ts corporate registry.       

http://thelostvalley.blogspot.ca/2013/05/oland-murder-case-prime-suspect-now-has.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 07:43:37 PM
question for Baysailor:

Are they still listed - today -sans Richard? Do you know? Or did they disband it?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 08:00:16 PM
It's still listed. She mentioned during her testimony that Dick had a meeting with someone from an insurance company the day he died, and it was reported that he had a meeting around estate planning just before. I wonder if those things were one and the same and if it (or they) were made with the intention of making any notable changes in his estate plan? His mistress did say they had discussed marriage and that he was going to speak to a lawyer around that. I wonder if any such discussion took place and if so would the other participants in that be called to testify as the prosecution tries to bolster its case for motive?

 http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty-the-dick-oland-case/     

edit- the estate planning meeting was with the insurance co., per, the linked story.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 08:36:03 PM
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty-the-dick-oland-case/

Rather ironic that Dick would have a discussion about his estate.

taken from above link.

Quote
Adding to the family tensions was Dick’s eight-year affair with a Saint John real estate agent named Diana Sedlacek.
 An apparently poorly kept secret, Sedlacek told police that most of Dick’s family was aware of their relationship.
The two had discussed marriage and Dick had arranged to meet with a lawyer to go over the details, Sedlacek told investigators.
So public was their affair that the two had a standing arrangement to speak every night at 6:30 p.m.
When, the day after the murder, she couldn’t reach him to discuss a trip the two were planning to Maine,

 Sedlacek phoned Dick’s wife to track him down.

 Dennis was particularly bothered by the affair,
telling police he had asked a family friend “to speak to his father and tell him to stop the affair because it was becoming more public.” Sedlacek told police that Dick had often complained to her about his son’s work ethic and that “he did not have a lot of respect for his son and thought he was lazy.”
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 08:45:41 PM
DS strikes me as pushy in my opinion only.  The courthouse may be full to seating capacity, when DS takes the stand.

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/

snippet from above article

For the past eight years, in fact, Richard had been having an affair with Diana Sedlacek, a local real estate agent. As the relationship became more public – there was talk of marriage – Dennis had begun to feel increasingly guilty for not telling his mother about his father’s mistress, exacerbating the already tense relationships between the two men.

Connie was not unaware of Sedlacek, of course, whom she described to police as “Dick’s friend.” She’d actually learned about her husband’s murder as the result of a phone call from Sedlacek.

Oland and Sedlacek had spent the day before his death texting about a trip they were planning to take to Maine. Though they often communicated through texts, Sedlacek invariably phoned Richard at 6:30 each night to talk about their days. That evening, he didn’t answer when she dialed him. At one point, she texted him: “are you there?” No answer. The next morning, Sedlacek drove past his office, saw the commotion and called Connie to ask if she knew why there were so many police cars outside her husband’s office. Connie then called Richard’s longtime employee and friend, Bob McFadden, who delivered the shocking news.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 09:07:23 PM


Connie was not unaware of Sedlacek, of course, whom she described to police as “Dick’s friend.”

I have to wonder a little bit if Connie didn't at least suspect something, have a sense of doubt, consciously or subconsciously, about this. Your husband doesn't home nights and happens to have this good female friend?? Sheesh.

Connie is kind of a Leave it to Beaver Mrs. Cleaver sort of lady, very poised with perfect matters, fairly quiet and soft spoken and a very 'correct' upper middle class type (these are my words). Perhaps she just wouldn't let her mind go there, or felt to be a proper lady you ignore whispers or thoughts of infidelity?     

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 09:19:24 PM
Taken from post 379

Quote
Dennis had begun to feel increasingly guilty for not telling his mother about his father’s mistress, exacerbating the already tense relationships between the two men.

The both of you are probably right. Connie, being a lady and in knowing Dick after 43 years would probably accept the fact that he had a mistress,
but would not verbally express it to anyone, because by doing so - she would be validating DS as playing an important role in her husbands life
and more or less giving a nod of approval.

Does that make any sense?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 08, 2015, 09:41:24 PM
Taken from post 379

Quote
Dennis had begun to feel increasingly guilty for not telling his mother about his father’s mistress, exacerbating the already tense relationships between the two men.

The both of you are probably right. Connie, being a lady and in knowing Dick after 43 years would probably accept the fact that he had a mistress,
but would not verbally express it to anyone, because by doing so - she would be validating DS as playing an important role in her husbands life
and more or less giving a nod of approval.

Does that make any sense?

jb

sure, or the stiff upper lip, or whatever, it's just such a terrible position to be in. And after that, I'm sure DS felt she had no choice but to leave the city, and with due respect to the victim it's Connie that I really hope that can come to terms with this and move on to enjoy the rest of her life. If the case comes to a reasonable conclusion in Dennis' favour, I suspect she will.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 08, 2015, 10:23:07 PM
I hope that this predicament of her son will come to a favourable conclusion. She has not only lost a husband, but may lose a son for a very long time. So far, his lawyers are doing a fantastic job of beating down evidence put forward by the prosecution.

Apart from the 4 spots on that jacket, there is no other dna evidence - so far- that convicts Dennis.
And the defence will tackle that one - for sure.   

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 09, 2015, 08:40:43 AM
Wow, it is what it is.  I could care less about any emotions and can only hope that he is found either clearly guilty or clearly innocent. What worries me is that if he gets off on a 'technicality i.e. example, yes, the dna on the jacket matched the victim but because it went through the dry cleaning then it's dubious. yada, yada, yada.  Can't wait to hear what the defendant has to say .. it may all come down to that.   Long way to go, 2 months, much to early to call at this point.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 10:11:58 AM
What worries me is that if he gets off on a 'technicality i.e. example, yes, the dna on the jacket matched the victim but because it went through the dry cleaning then it's dubious. yada, yada, yada.  Can't wait to hear what the defendant has to say .. it may all come down to that.   Long way to go, 2 months, much to early to call at this point.

Do you think he will testify? I have no idea as to what surprises lay ahead but given both sides consider this a circumstantial case I wonder if Dennis is best left off the stand unless he's needed to rebut a prosecution witness who testifies Dennis was truly enraged at his father over something?     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 09, 2015, 10:31:12 AM
It's a valid point.  I don't know enough about the law, but I would have thought that the prosecutors would have at least have the right to question him on the stand, throw some curves, and see if he sticks with his account of the day of the murder, and the days after. And on the other hand, if I were innocent, I'd be champing at the bit to tell my story of what I did, where I went, what clothes I was wearing etc. etc.  I would be clear, concise, and assertive, and along with that angry and appalled that I was even considered a suspect, let alone charged with the murder of my father.  I would clear my name once and for all because I know that I did not do this! Of course, if there was the victim's blood on sport's coats and I didn't have a viable explanation ... I may not be so bold & forthcoming, and might leave that to my lawyer's to 'deal with' somehow.  Again, too difficult, too early to guesstimate -  until more details play out for us.......
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 09, 2015, 10:39:21 AM
from jb:
Quote
I hope that this predicament of her son will come to a favourable conclusion. She has not only lost a husband, but may lose a son for a very long time.

from Snowhite:
Quote
Wow, it is what it is.  I could care less about any emotions and can only hope that he is found either clearly guilty or clearly innocent.

Snowhite, you always come across to me as someone who has a personal stake in this. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Of course we all want to see this case come to a definite conclusion. Clear cut guilt or innocence. That having been said: Whenever someone is murdered there are family members who suffer a loss, both on the side of the victim, and the perpetrator. They are also victims imo. This situation is different than most, in that Connie Oland is both wife of the murder victim, and mother of the person accused of the murder. Her situation is not an easy one, of that we can be sure.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 09, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
What worries me is that if he gets off on a 'technicality i.e. example, yes, the dna on the jacket matched the victim but because it went through the dry cleaning then it's dubious. yada, yada, yada.  Can't wait to hear what the defendant has to say .. it may all come down to that.   Long way to go, 2 months, much to early to call at this point.

Do you think he will testify? I have no idea as to what surprises lay ahead but given both sides consider this a circumstantial case I wonder if Dennis is best left off the stand unless he's needed to rebut a prosecution witness who testifies Dennis was truly enraged at his father over something?   

I think it is likely in his best interest to testify.  Although, I don't know him personally, he strikes me as the type of person who would come across well to a jury.  I often believe, especially in murder trials, if the defendant does not testify, the jury is left with the presumption of guilt (whether rightly or wrongly).  Of course, he is under no legal obligation to do so.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 12:04:05 PM
What worries me is that if he gets off on a 'technicality i.e. example, yes, the dna on the jacket matched the victim but because it went through the dry cleaning then it's dubious. yada, yada, yada.  Can't wait to hear what the defendant has to say .. it may all come down to that.   Long way to go, 2 months, much to early to call at this point.

Do you think he will testify? I have no idea as to what surprises lay ahead but given both sides consider this a circumstantial case I wonder if Dennis is best left off the stand unless he's needed to rebut a prosecution witness who testifies Dennis was truly enraged at his father over something?   

I think it is likely in his best interest to testify.  Although, I don't know him personally, he strikes me as the type of person who would come across well to a jury.  I often believe, especially in murder trials, if the defendant does not testify, the jury is left with the presumption of guilt (whether rightly or wrongly).  Of course, he is under no legal obligation to do so.

You may well be right. It would certainly be interesting to hear that cross-examination!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I feel that the citizens of New Brunswick can be very proud of the openness of their court system, in allowing everything to be reported to the public, including exhibits.  This is very unusual. I understand that
various media had to go to court to gain access, however, the answer was eventually yes - This would never happen where I live.
It is not over yet..... but I feel that after all of the evidence is presented to the public, whatever the Verdict, we will have to say that it is  fair one.  We will not be able to say that the courts favored one way or the other during the trial.
It is so above board, and the witnesses are so cooperative and forth right (as they should be) - it astonishes me.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 01:40:13 PM
I feel that the citizens of New Brunswick can be very proud of the openness of their court system, in allowing everything to be reported to the public, including exhibits.  This is very unusual. I understand that
various media had to go to court to gain access, however, the answer was eventually yes - This would never happen where I live.
It is not over yet..... but I feel that after all of the evidence is presented to the public, whatever the Verdict, we will have to say that it is  fair one.  We will not be able to say that the courts favored one way or the other during the trial.
It is so above board, and the witnesses are so cooperative and forth right (as they should be) - it astonishes me.

jb

Nicely said. I completely agree.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 09, 2015, 04:10:07 PM
Well, that's good to know ... wherever it is that you reside & for comparison, JB.  We're so inundated with the live courtroom broadcasts feeds on US TV, that's hard to know what to expect or what exactly the 'normal' protocol is within the Canadian system, let alone the differences between the provinces/territories.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 05:31:36 PM
Unable to estimate the time of death.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289

I would think the prosecution would have much preferred some estimation that include the late afternoon/ early evening time frame of Dennis's last visit. I had expected some such guess but that must come from watching too much television!   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2015, 06:38:55 PM
Unable to estimate the time of death.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289

I would think the prosecution would have much preferred some estimation that include the late afternoon/ early evening time frame of Dennis's last visit. I had expected some such guess but that must come from watching too much television!   

Live Blog
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-1.3264153

Re: no estimation at time of death.   It's a shame - what does the prosecution have to work with - I wonder.

In the cbc live  blog from the courthouse,  the defence brought up alcohol in the urine in Dick' system - enough which is close to dui.  Dick did not keep alcohol In the office, according to an earlier statement made by his secretary.
When it came to the weapon used, the defence suggested that possibly two weapons were used by the perps.   Here the defence is suggesting that perhaps two people were involved. The expert could not come up with a possible type of weapon used. 

I wonder if the defence will suggest that Dick met someone for a few drinks and brought them back to the office, where the murder ensued?

So far, no time of death, and no type of murder weapon given by expert.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 07:20:39 PM
Unable to estimate the time of death.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289

I would think the prosecution would have much preferred some estimation that include the late afternoon/ early evening time frame of Dennis's last visit. I had expected some such guess but that must come from watching too much television!   

Live Blog
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-1.3264153

Re: no estimation at time of death.   It's a shame - what does the prosecution have to work with - I wonder.

In the cbc live  blog from the courthouse,  the defence brought up alcohol in the urine in Dick' system - enough which is close to dui.  Dick did not keep alcohol In the office, according to an earlier statement made by his secretary.
When it came to the weapon used, the defence suggested that possibly two weapons were used by the perps.   Here the defence is suggesting that perhaps two people were involved. The expert could not come up with a possible type of weapon used. 

I wonder if the defence will suggest that Dick met someone for a few drinks and brought them back to the office, where the murder ensued?


That would certainly be plausible, but I suspect he would have had to use the back door as the camera at the restaurant across the street would probably have covered that. I suspect they know who entered the front door throughout the evening, so that back door deadbolt becomes important. That camera might be their best evidence for 'opportunity' if they convince a jury no one could have accessed the back door. I wonder if they can!   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 09, 2015, 08:22:27 PM
The blood on the dry cleaned jacket is key. How else might it have got there? How often does one 'dry clean' a sports jacket?  You're suppose to point those kinds of stains/blotches out to the dry cleaners and so they can target them in the cleaning process. I've had to do it with my hunting clothes after field dressing a deer. I can't remember how well they turned out, good enough I suspect.  I wonder if the 'pointing out' was done in this case, or if the wife even knew that the jacket had been soiled.   At any rate the dry cleaner has to go through and screen each piece for quote & condition, material etc.  I don't know if a layman would be able to discern if dried blood on a brown jacket was indeed blood, a professional dry cleaner might know it from a mile away though ... just dunno. Surely, they will be called to the stand as a witness and to describe the details of that particular transaction.   

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.1912555
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
That pesky sports jacket, just might do dennis in.  You are right Snow white - the dry cleaner will no doubt take the stand.
And imo may be a crucial witness. So far, that is the only evidence the prosecution has.

Baysailor, how dark does that street in front of Dick's office get at nite?  Would a camera across the street pick up movement  at sundown?



jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 08:44:01 PM
The blood on the dry cleaned jacket is key. How might it of got there? How often does one 'dry clean' a sports jacket?  You're suppose to point those kinds of stains/blotches out to the dry cleaners and so they can target them in the cleaning process. I've had to do it with my hunting clothes after field dressing a deer. I can't remember how well they turned out, good enough I suspect.  I wonder if the 'pointing out' was done in this case, or if the wife even knew that the jacket had been soiled.   At any rate the dry cleaner has to go through and screen each piece for quote & condition, material etc.  I don't know if a layman would be able to discern if dried blood on a brown jacket was indeed blood, a professional dry cleaner might know it from a mile away though ... just dunno. Surely, they will be called to the stand as a witness and to describe the details of that particular transaction.

Good questions, and I can't wait to hear the drycleaner and the 'hearer of the thumps" testify. The only thing more interesting to me will be the girlfriend and insurance guy. I'm hoping and thinking they all will appear.

If you were aware you had blood or ink stains or other difficult to remove stains on a jacket you liked, you get it to the drycleaners right away. If you are financially challenged you sure don't want to be replacing Hugo Boss jackets too frequently.

At least we're getting some answers to questions we have had: the pizza was purchased at lunchtime for Dick by his secretary; he didn't leave the office except possibly at lunchtime when the secretary was out; the autopsy showed no noticeable skin lesions or scabs other than those caused by the weapon or weapons.

The (apparently small to medium) alcohol consumption several hours before his death combined with the fact his secretary said he didn't keep alcohol in his office I find quite interesting. How the heck did that happen???

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/richard-oland-survived-only-minutes-180149014.html
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 09, 2015, 08:55:41 PM
Baysailor, how dark does that street in front of Dick's office get at nite?  Would a camera across the street pick up movement  at sundown?

jb

There are streetlights along there and the entrance to the parking lot across the street, beside the restaurant with the cctv, is fairly well lit as well. I wouldn't think it could be bright enough to identify people or clothes colours but I suppose that might be more the function of the camera quality than the lighting. If the streetlights were working and the cctv on at night I'm sure they could see persons coming and going from the front door.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 09, 2015, 10:40:22 PM
-6 pairs of dress shoes of DO were checked for dna - nothing.... However No mention of runners being looked for
or looked at.

-Also there were rooms on the third floor which was used by a band for practice.
Was there a fire escape from that floor? Was that floor checked for blood stains from shoes?
I'll bet the 3rd floor was never checked.

-Employees from print shop as to time of thumps and shuffling sounds will be key.

- Excellent points about drycleaning Snow white.  You described exactly as to how it is done.
Possibly, could also have had more blood spots, but cleaner was successful in removal all of them, except the four with traces of dna.
Yes, there is more than one way to look at things.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 10, 2015, 03:35:13 AM
I worked in a dry cleaners while in highschool many moons ago.  Back in those days we would put safety pins on any spots pointed out by the customer, so the cleaner would take extra care with them.
Dennis's wife says he went straight upstairs to change that day.

I'm surprised they couldn't pinpoint time of death (by stomach contents).  Also surprised about the foul odour the next morning.
Dick was obviously alive when his secretary left....so time of death was after she left and must have been before 6:30 since his mistress could not reach him and she called him everyday at that time.   She says he always answered.
I'm sure that by studying her and Dick's phone records, they would know that yes they did talk everyday at 6:30.

That's my take on the timeline.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 10, 2015, 07:22:03 AM
Quote

-Also there were rooms on the third floor which was used by a band for practice.
Was there a fire escape from that floor? Was that floor checked for blood stains from shoes?
I'll bet the 3rd floor was never checked.

-Employees from print shop as to time of thumps and shuffling sounds will be key.

jb

I had wondered about the third floor as well, jellybean.  I'm sure fire regulations would have required there to be a fire escape (not sure exactly where it would lead).  I had also considered that it might be a good hiding place for a killer.  Since it was not brought up by the Defence, however, as a possible escape route, I wondered if perhaps access to that area may have been kept locked.  All pure speculation, of course, without knowing the facts.

 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 10, 2015, 09:44:27 AM
From what we know of this crime, it appears on the surface, at least,  to have taken some careful planning.  The level of violence involved, however, would indicate the killer was in a state of hysteria and unable to stop inflicting one blow after another.  I would expect the killer to be completely out of control yet he or she, at the same time, did seem to be in command of the situation.  Somehow, to me at least, that just doesn't seem to fit.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
From what we know of this crime, it appears on the surface, at least,  to have taken some careful planning.  The level of violence involved, however, would indicate the killer was in a state of hysteria and unable to stop inflicting one blow after another.  I would expect the killer to be completely out of control yet he or she, at the same time, did seem to be in command of the situation.  Somehow, to me at least, that just doesn't seem to fit.


I am thinking along the same lines as RubyRose. I also think that this person was in a terrible rage - unstoppable with the blows until the killer's anger was fully spent.

Perhaps the killer was just plain lucky in leaving without being noticed.

That being said, where did the weapon come from?  Was it readily available to the killer, when the rage came out?  Or did the killer premeditate and bring the weapon with him or her?

And - whomever took Dick's iphone, wanted to cover up their tracks of their last communication with him -( so they had hoped).

The insurance agent, and hmm another person's....testimony will be very very interesting.
jb
 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 11:32:41 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289

Richard Oland survived only 'minutes,' murder trial hears

WARNING: This story contains graphic material that some readers may find disturbing

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 09, 2015 3:01 PM AT| Last Updated: Oct 09, 2015 9:16 PM AT

Richard Oland likely survived only minutes into his vicious bludgeoning, according to the pathologist who performed the autopsy.

"In my opinion, these injuries would be rapidly fatal," Dr. Ather Naseemuddin testified Friday at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial in Saint John.

"Maybe 10 minutes. Maybe five," he said, although he was unable to estimate the actual time of death.

Richard Oland, 69, suffered 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands, said Naseemuddin, clarifying that he had previously reported 46, but had mistakenly counted one injury twice.

The prominent businessman's body was discovered lying face down in a large pool of blood in his investment firm office on July 7, 2011.

Dennis Oland, 47, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his office the night before, has pleaded not guilty in his death.

Naseemuddin says Richard Oland's injuries were "not survivable," even if he had received prompt medical attention.

The six defensive wounds to Oland's hands were likely among the first, when he was still conscious and able to try to defend himself, said Naseemuddin.

"There are so many injuries … which are terribly incapacitating, I would think those would have come after the victim was able to make any defensive motion."

The attack likely continued after Oland was already on the floor, defenceless, he said.

Notion of 2 perpetrators raised

During cross-examination, defence lawyer Alan Gold raised for the first time the notion of there having been two perpetrators involved.

"There must've been some initial involvement … with the attacker or attackers?" he asked, referring to the defensive wounds. Naseemuddin agreed.

The doctor also agreed when Gold suggested Oland was "physically quite capable of defending himself," because he was a "healthy, robust man," nearly six feet tall and 192 pounds.

Friday was Naseemuddin's second day on the stand. He continued to explain Oland's injuries to the jury using graphic photographs taken during the lengthy autopsy, a sketch he made, as well as his notes and final post-mortem report on the July 8, 2011 procedure.

There were about 35 sharp force injuries to his head, "consistent with chop wounds," and six blunt force injuries, resulting in 14 skull fractures.

Wasn't asked to speculate on weapon

Saint John police "did not ask me to speculate about any specific weapon and I did not do so," said Naseemuddin, referring to the time of the autopsy.

Crown prosecutor Patrick Wilbur asked him if the issue was discussed during a follow-up meeting with police, which Naseemuddin recalled as being "at least a few months later."

It's entirely possible that came up," the doctor said, but he could not recall.

Naseemuddin did say, however, that the injuries were inflicted by two separate surfaces — one that caused round wounds about three centimetres in diameter with a faint cross hatching pattern in them, and one with a sharp edge, strong enough to cut through bone without breaking apart and leaving pieces in the wounds.

Whether it was two weapons or two different surfaces on the same weapon, he could not say.

"So you, like everybody else, have no idea what that could have been, is that correct?" asked Gold. "Correct," he replied.

No weapon was ever found.

'Skull was completely broken'



The six fractures on the left side of Oland's head were "more rapidly fatal" than the ones on the right, said Naseemuddin, noting four of them created a depressed area in the skull measuring about 10 cm in length, seven centimetres in width and two centimetres deep.

Some of them "breached the outer table of the skull," and "entered the cranial cavity," reaching the brain, he said.

Alan Gold, Dennis Oland's defence lawyer
Defence lawyer Alan Gold asked the pathologist about the alcohol detected in Richard Oland's urine. (CBC)

"This poor man's skull was completely broken, correct?" Gold asked, "Yes, that's fair to say," Naseemuddin replied.

Gold suggested it would take "considerable force" to break the skull and would cause noise in the process. "i completely agree," the doctor said.

​Seven of the lacerations on the right side of Oland's head were parallel, and spaced closely together. "It would appear these injuries were made in quick rapid succession," said Naseemuddin.






He noted there was an additional wound not included in the count. Oland's orbital plates, around his eyes, were like a cracked egg shell, indicating "some degree of frontal impact," which could have been caused by him falling onto the floor face-first.

There was also an "historical" bruise to his left chest, which was deemed unrelated to the slaying. Naseemuddin could not say when the bruising occurred or what the cause might have been.

No pre-existing sores on head noted





The prosecutor asked if Naseemuddin noted any open sores on Oland's head that were unrelated to the attack. He said he didn't recall seeing any.

Earlier in the trial, the defence presented evidence about Oland having a skin condition that would sometimes cause his scalp to bleed, laying the groundwork for another possible explanation for his blood being on his son's brown sports jacket.

Oland's long-time secretary Maureen Adamson confirmed the skin condition and said he often had scabs on his scalp.

Adamson also said Oland had a hearing problem and would often lean in when speaking to someone, sometimes touching their arms in the process.

The Crown has said the brown sports jacket, seized from Dennis Oland's closet, had four areas of blood on it matching the DNA profile of Richard Oland.

Dennis Oland was wearing a brown jacket when he stopped by his father's office at 52 Canterbury St., on July 6, 2011, Adamson testified. He was also captured on video surveillance earlier in the day wearing a brown jacket.

'Substantial' blood would be on attacker

The defence also continued to push its argument that the killer would have had a "significant" amount of blood on him or her.

Gold noted Richard Oland took "a little Paxil for anxiety." He asked if Oland also took Aspirin and whether that combination could cause someone to bleed more easily.

Sgt. Mark Smith, Saint John Police, forensic identification unit
Sgt. Mark Smith, the head of the Saint John Police Force's forensic identification unit, said he was unaware of the victim's blood or DNA being found in Dennis Oland's car or on several of the items seized from his home. (CBC)

Naseemuddin said he didn't know if Oland took Aspirin, but confirmed it can interfere with blood clotting and that he wound up covered in blood while performing the autopsy.

During redirect, however, the prosecutor pointed out that the toxicology report by the provincial forensic toxicologist found "no common prescription or drugs of abuse."

Still, given the amount of blood at the crime scene, Gold asked Naseemudin whether Oland's attacker would have been "covered in blood."

"Certainly the weapon. I don't know about the clothing," he replied.

But Gold pointed out that when he asked Naseemuddin during the preliminary inquiry whether it was likely the attacker would have had a substantial amount of blood on him or her, his answer, under oath, was yes.

So Gold puts the question to him again. "I would agree that answer is true," Naseemuddin said.

On Thursday, the head of the Saint John Police Force's forensic identification unit testified he was unaware of any information about the victim's blood or DNA being found on Dennis Oland's Volkswagen Golf City, the red Compliments reusable grocery bag he reportedly had with him the night he visited his father, the bag's contents, or a log book that was in the office that night, which Dennis was supposed to deliver to his mother.

Sgt. Mark Smith also confirmed he had no information about any blood or DNA, identified as being Richard Oland's, being found in or on a list of items seized from Dennis Oland's home a week after his father's death, including shoes, pants, shirts, blue shorts, bathroom garbage can, and his cell phone.

He was not asked about the brown sports jacket.

Alcohol found in urine



Naseemuddin said no alcohol was found in the victim's blood or vitreous fluid, but a "low" amount was found in his urine — 2.3 mg/dl, indicating "alcohol consumption several hours prior to death," according to his report.

The defence lawyer converted that amount to the more common measurement of milligrams of alcohol per millilitres of blood, which is used in impaired driving cases.

Maureen Adamson, Richard Oland's secretary
Richard Oland's secretary, Maureen Adamson, testified the only alcohol she ever saw in the office was an old can of Alpine that had been there for a long time. (CBC )

Gold said it would have been 25.8 mg/100 mL and noted that a reading over 80 mg would result in an impaired driving offence.

But Naseemuddin argued that would be a blood alcohol reading. Oland's was in his urine.

"I'm not saying [the amount of alcohol in his urine is] large enough to represent a weekend in Vegas," said Gold. But he suggested the initial amount would have been higher, given the normal elimination process and whatever Oland might have urinated away prior to his death.

Oland's secretary previously testified that he didn't keep alcohol in the office and that she doesn't believe he left the office at all on the day he was killed. She could not say definitively, however, because she left over the lunch hour to bring him back a pizza, she said.

The trial wrapped up early on Friday.



Court of Queen's Bench Justice John Walsh told the jury he didn't want to call a new witness, who wouldn't be able to complete testimony before the long weekend.

He said he didn't want anyone to be under oath throughout the weekend and didn't want to break up the jurors' train of thought.

He did encourage the jurors, however, to read the 12-page post-mortem report before they left for the day, while Naseemuddin's testimony was still fresh in their minds.

The trial resumes on Tuesday at 9:30 a.m. It is scheduled to run until Dec. 18.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 10, 2015, 11:42:23 AM
Hi jb, I don't think the link is correct in the post above. :)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 11:53:26 AM
Hi jb, I don't think the link is correct in the post above. :)

oops - Fixed.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 12:17:55 PM
The blood on the dry cleaned jacket is key. How might it of got there? How often does one 'dry clean' a sports jacket?  You're suppose to point those kinds of stains/blotches out to the dry cleaners and so they can target them in the cleaning process. I've had to do it with my hunting clothes after field dressing a deer. I can't remember how well they turned out, good enough I suspect.  I wonder if the 'pointing out' was done in this case, or if the wife even knew that the jacket had been soiled.   At any rate the dry cleaner has to go through and screen each piece for quote & condition, material etc.  I don't know if a layman would be able to discern if dried blood on a brown jacket was indeed blood, a professional dry cleaner might know it from a mile away though ... just dunno. Surely, they will be called to the stand as a witness and to describe the details of that particular transaction.

Good questions, and I can't wait to hear the drycleaner and the 'hearer of the thumps" testify. The only thing more interesting to me will be the girlfriend and insurance guy. I'm hoping and thinking they all will appear.

If you were aware you had blood or ink stains or other difficult to remove stains on a jacket you liked, you get it to the drycleaners right away. If you are financially challenged you sure don't want to be replacing Hugo Boss jackets too frequently.

At least we're getting some answers to questions we have had: the pizza was purchased at lunchtime for Dick by his secretary; he didn't leave the office except possibly at lunchtime when the secretary was out; the autopsy showed no noticeable skin lesions or scabs other than those caused by the weapon or weapons.

The (apparently small to medium) alcohol consumption several hours before his death combined with the fact his secretary said he didn't keep alcohol in his office I find quite interesting. How the heck did that happen???

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/richard-oland-survived-only-minutes-180149014.html

Apparently, if there are enough sugars in the body, combined with warm temperatures - the body can 'make' alcohol after death. Don't know the needed/average time needed though ... however, I wonder if the pathologist can/will discern between imbibed and in vitro ethanol?

http://www.the-ltg.org/data/uploads/posters/dead-drunk_final.pdf
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 01:33:05 PM
Snowhite:  Great stuff.  The alcohol reading could have been produced naturally.  I wonder if the prosecution will
pick up on that!

LET'S DO SOME SHOPPING.

There were 6 blunt force wounds - round, cross hatched pattern 3 cm in diameter = 1.18 inches

35 chop wounds - very sharp edge.


Drywall hammer has been put forth as a possible weapon.

Here is a link with pic's and descripts.

https://www.google.ca/#q=drywall+hammer
and here is one with a checkerhead although it has a wooden handle.

http://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/tools/Hammers1/hammers-specialty/drywall-checkered-head-hammers-05154?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CMys7qjSuMgCFVKEfgodp4EA2Q
AND-
http://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/tools/Hammers1/hammers-specialty/cutoff-hammers-h-51fg
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 10, 2015, 01:37:40 PM
Hi jb, I don't think the link is correct in the post above. :)

oops - Fixed.
jb

Thanks, jb, :)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 10, 2015, 01:39:10 PM
from jb:
Quote
Drywall hammer has been put forth as a possible weapon.

Roofing hammers are also similar looking.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 02:09:06 PM
I think I will call my brother (1 free call ha ha) He owned his own small construction company, and perhaps he would have an idea.

It seems to be a small tool no? 3cm head = 1.18 inches.  Leaves out a sledge hammer - for certain.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 02:37:30 PM
from jb:
Quote
Drywall hammer has been put forth as a possible weapon.

Roofing hammers are also similar looking.

Debbie - I think you may have hit upon something here.
Here is a roofing hammer that is crossed hatched!

https://www.google.ca/search?q=roofing+hammer&biw=930&bih=390&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBsQsARqFQoTCMKWxezfuMgCFU05iAodDr8NMw#imgrc=u6Ok1taeGN_QNM%3A

You can see the cross hatches on the head.

and
http://anvils.co.uk//products/list/67

/jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 02:44:36 PM
Snowhite:  Great stuff.  The alcohol reading could have been produced naturally.  I wonder if the prosecution will
pick up on that!

Which, if so, begs another question .... (yes, I've watched most Columbo episodes).   Did the office have windows with western exposure? More specifically, was it an office room where the sun crept around in the late afternoon and shone directly into the office space?  Blinds? Usually opened or closed that time of year?  I know I once worked in an office that was fine all day, and then around 4pm, the sun would creep around and make things almost unbearable in the temperature & vision departments. Leave the blinds open til then, then close them shut was the m. operandi.  Sun azimuth, solar zenith etc with respect to adjacent buildings would all come in to play and for that date, with the ultimate issue being  - could the sun have been a factor in raising the body temp a few extra degrees & with it precipitate an accelerated  fermentation process within a dead body - or not!?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 04:02:51 PM
According to the secretary the air conditioner in his office was still going full blast when she arrived in the a.m.

So, the process may have slowed down, but still could create ethanol in the body.
The ambulance attended said that rigor mortis had set in.  He said that when he used his foot to turn him over, everything turned over all at the same time.
 And from what I have learned it that takes 8 to 12 hours to fully set in.

Just read that rigor time is faster if the environment is cold. Wow. see last link at bottom with excerpt

He was discovered around 9;00 am - so, 12 hours prior brings the timeline to 9;00 pm,.  Right?
There are many factors to be taken in by the medical examiner at the scene, including room temperature, which they are supposed to take.
One would think he could have an approximate range of time of death./jb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis
http://www.writersdigest.com/qp7-migration-books/forensics-excerpt

http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html

snippet:

At the moment of death, the muscles relax completely—a condition called "primary flaccidity." The muscles then stiffen, perhaps due to coagulation of muscle proteins or a shift in the muscle's energy containers (ATP-ADP), into a condition known as rigor mortis. All of the body's muscles are affected. Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw. This sequence may be due to the difference in lactic acid levels among different muscles, which corresponds to the difference in glycogen levels and to the different types of muscle fibers. Over the next four to six hours, rigor mortis spreads to the other muscles, including those in the internal organs such as the heart. The onset of rigor mortis is more rapid if the environment is cold and if the decedent had performed hard physical work just before death. Its onset also varies with the individual's age, sex, physical condition, and muscular build.

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html#ixzz3oCprrdd7


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 04:15:47 PM
Good point, JB.  Although some office A/Cs are on timers .... shutting off at 11pm and turning on at 7am, for example and/or integrated with sensors for better energy efficiency.  From the Court Photos supplied, I don't believe these were individual window units in that building.  Probably all looked at, considered already .. but then again, you never know. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 04:26:49 PM
Snowhite:  I have modified my post. Read last part.  Rigor mortis is speeded up with a cold environment.

One would think a timeline range could be given as to how long he was deceased.

They found ethanol in his urine - not in his blood - so - does that mean that the body produced it after death when tissue's break down?

When death occurs all muscles relax, and very often the bladder empties.

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 10, 2015, 04:36:28 PM
Which, if so, begs another question .... (yes, I've watched most Columbo episodes).   Did the office have windows with western exposure? More specifically, was it an office room where the sun crept around in the late afternoon and shone directly into the office space?  Blinds? Usually opened or closed that time of year?  I know I once worked in an office that was fine all day, and then around 4pm, the sun would creep around and make things almost unbearable in the temperature & vision departments. Leave the blinds open til then, then close them shut was the m. operandi.  Sun azimuth, solar zenith etc with respect to adjacent buildings would all come in to play and for that date, with the ultimate issue being  - could the sun have been a factor in raising the body temp a few extra degrees & with it precipitate an accelerated  fermentation process within a dead body - or not!?

Holy smokers, good sleuthing. Yes, the office does indeed face west, or WSW, and there were vertical blinds in the windows. No side windows, and I'm pretty sure no windows in the alley.

One window a/c unit.

Debbie, are you a home reno's expert or are there some nefarious thoughts in that brain of yours? That roofing hammer is almost interchangeable with a drywall hammer. Nice call!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 04:38:58 PM
I don't know.  Surely, the experts derived some kind of ballpark timeline from the body details.  Also, he must have drank 'something' to wash down that pizza which are usually well over salted and given that it was a hot summer day.  Was it mentioned if he just stayed at his desk all day, through lunch, the afternoon without even 'popping out' for a 15 minute fresh air cum refreshment break?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
snowhite; here is the link to the crime scene photo's and you can see the windows which Baysailor mentioned.

Click on the image and it will open up.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/photos

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 05:56:01 PM
Okay, thanks - not what I had envisioned, at all.  Old building, heritage windows, body behind desk and away from direct sunlight, blinds appear to be semi closed, and there is indeed an a/c window unit.  I see a can of coke which might well have been his lunch time beverage.  In one of my previous office's we had almost room size windows and where the sunlight invaded in the later afternoon. So much so that you could almost fry an egg on the desk, if not dealt with through shielding and a/c.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 06:21:16 PM
I just looked at the photos from the murder scene.  I know that I'm totally influenced by Hollywood crime scenes that are often amped up for maximum shock & awe but that is a lot less blood then I thought would be present.  Also, office furniture at 270 degrees and a high chair back to screen blood spatter on the pants and torso of the body.  I would expect to find the majority of blood samples on the upper dominate-armed side of the perp.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 07:01:54 PM
I just looked at the photos from the murder scene.  I know that I'm totally influenced by Hollywood crime scenes that are often amped up for maximum shock & awe but that is a lot less blood then I thought would be present.  Also, office furniture at 270 degrees and a high chair back to screen blood spatter on the pants and torso of the body.  I would expect to find the majority of blood samples on the upper dominate-armed side of the perp.

After reading the defence on the large amount of blood supposedly at the crime scene, I was also surprised that apart from the large pool of blood on the floor, there appeared to be very little.
Yes, excellent thought about blood on right arm of the perp.
What about the pants and shoes of the perp?  I think it was said that he was struck several times when he was on the floor?

Why was DO at the hardware store the morning just prior to the discovery of his Dad? Was he there to purchase a replacement of something?
I am anxious to find out about that!
Here is a very clear time of rigor mortis.  Unlike the others that I have provided, this is a simple read.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
I don't know. The hardware store could have something to do with the visit to his wife's boat, only.  "Boat people' are always needing something at those shops. Was there a receipt found for that particular visit and, if so, has it been divulged what item(s) were purchased? As for the blows allegedly applied while Dick was on the floor and the resultant blood spatter - again, the natural shield is key, how did he fall, was the perp in tight to him or more recessed, how did the perp secure his free arm?  I tend to draw an analogy with a hockey fight in my mind.   You know, some players throw punches from afar and others are in tight and personal.  If the latter, and whoever did this secured his free arm by lifting the victims coat jack collar up - then it might well have caught the majority of the splatter ...much like a hockey enforcer secures for balance and lifts the jersey of his fight partner with his free hand.  Make a bit of sense? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 07:34:30 PM
Quote
  Make a bit of sense? 
Hmmmm, I think so..... So you are thinking that Dick stood up right away, and received most of the blows from a standing position?

If I did not get it, that's okay.... others would probably get it right away.

You talk about his wife's boat, (which was co-owned by her friend)  So, Dennis did not have his own boat?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 10, 2015, 07:46:57 PM
That's okay.  I think it's possible that after he fell to the floor, the perp grabbed him by the coat collar & lifted his neck and head up and hit him repeatedly. If he was laying flat on the floor it would be hard to swing down (assuming the perp was not a dwarf or midget) without securing yourself somehow for maximum swinging power.  The last a perp would want to do is to swing/miss and hit himself in the leg. By grabbing and/or lifting Dick's sport coat up and thus his head - he would most likely be screened from the majority of spatter.  As for a boat of his own, I don't know the answer to that.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 08:04:56 PM
Aha - light bulb - blink, blink..... I see what you mean. Queasy stuff ay?

I can't begin to fathom the horror that the victim went through. The perp showed no mercy.
Cold blooded - definitely. Pent up rage! Planned or spontaneous?
Very risky behaviour with potential of being seen entering and leaving bldg., not to mention employees working downstairs in printing shop.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 08:22:24 PM
?




http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3232115

Testimony of Secretary


Stairwells and hallways to Oland's office are narrow and windowless. #nb


Door to left of Printing Plus, at street level, usually locked. Opens up to set of stairs to 2nd storey, where Oland's office was. #nb


That door was also usually locked. Only 4 people had keys, we heard yesterday - Richard, her, Robert McFadden and bldg landlord #nb

7:23 AM - 17 Sep 2015

There was also a vacant office on that floor. And a door that exited to the alleyway, says Maureen Adamson #nb


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 10, 2015, 08:46:20 PM
You talk about his wife's boat, (which was co-owned by her friend)  So, Dennis did not have his own boat?

jb

No, Dennis is not much of a sailor. Even as a kid he was more into powerboats. After his dad died he bought a large powerboat. His grandfather and grandfather before that had a large boat called the Aloma that Dennis had written about for the Millidgeville yacht club newsletter. He talked about how much he enjoyed the boat and their family excursions on her.

Here is a bit of the history written to a blog:

https://caperfrasers.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/burchells-yacht-the-aloma/

The Wallace Turnbull mentioned in the story, who was a friend of Alexander Graham Bell's, lived in Rothesay and was a very highly educated, wealthy, and well known inventor of the day. The Turnbulls are now one of the other 'old' Rothesay families and have had long had homes across the street from the estate of P.W. Oland, now Dennis' home. Wallace Ruperts grandson has long been one of Richard Olands best friends (now a N.B. Supreme Court judge) and one of his sons has long been one of Dennis' best friends.

   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 08:55:51 PM
Baysailor
Quote
Wallace Ruperts grandson has long been one of Richard Olands best friends (now a N.B. Supreme Court judge) and one of his sons has long been one of Dennis' best friends.

Oh my gosh!! I am speechless as to their connections.  The Police Chief and prosecutor took a large leap of faith in their evidence, and they better be right on this one.
Heads could roll - if not. imo

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 10, 2015, 09:10:45 PM
Baysailor
Quote
Wallace Ruperts grandson has long been one of Richard Olands best friends (now a N.B. Supreme Court judge) and one of his sons has long been one of Dennis' best friends.

Oh my gosh!! I am speechless as to their connections.  The Police Chief and prosecutor took a large leap of faith in their evidence, and they better be right on this one.
Heads could roll - if not. imo

jb

Well, the current prosecutor was hauled out of retirement for this one so he'll probably just go straight back in to that or consulting when he's done, and the police chief is already gone, so that might already be taken care of!   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 10, 2015, 10:17:21 PM
Stuff just happens!! 8)
(sigh)
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 11, 2015, 05:08:01 AM
Good point, JB.  Although some office A/Cs are on timers .... shutting off at 11pm and turning on at 7am, for example and/or integrated with sensors for better energy efficiency.  From the Court Photos supplied, I don't believe these were individual window units in that building.  Probably all looked at, considered already .. but then again, you never know.

Mrs. Adamson had testified that the AC was still running when she arrived which was unusual.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2015, 10:11:57 AM
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-trial-of-dennis-oland-accused-of-murdering-millionaire-father-reveals-dysfunctional-family

The following is very interesting.

Quote
But the real question for judge and jurors is how much evidence do prosecutors have that Oland the younger is his father’s killer?


The early answer to that one appears rather less clear.

Indeed, both the judge and the prosecutor told the jurors that the key issue before them is, as Walsh put it,
 “the identity of the person who caused Richard Oland’s death.”

There is a video in this article from the then Chief of Police who said Dennis Oland arrest was built on essentially nothing./jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 11, 2015, 04:20:47 PM
From the same article:

Quote
Worth an estimated $37 million on the day of his death, this according to his trusted executive assistant Maureen Adamson who kept a watchful eye on her boss’s investments and who began testifying Wednesday, Dick Oland nonetheless had his wife on a short financial leash, the prosecutor said, giving her an allowance of about $2,000 a month but demanding receipts.

Adamson fleshed that out: Connie Oland’s expenses for running the home were actually “refunded by Mr. Oland” after she submitted receipts, which Adamson would put into “a little report for him.”

Tensions must have been building sky high in that kind of a scenario, one would think and especially with the mistress (apparently) requesting more & more of Dick's time.  Can any female on this board describe what would they have done in a similar situation, i.e. filing expense reports, tolerating a mistress while twiddling thumbs and accordingly being totally left in the dark with regards to your hubby's financial intentions to you in the long run?  Would you be angry? Complacent?  More loving in hopes that the situation would eventually change for the better? Please enlighten?

Imo, they were essentially divorced without the official legal work/papers, which would have cost Dick millions that he probably did not want to cough up - given the battle that it took to win it all from the Moosehead coffers.  Far better to drag/play this out and for as long as possibly, and have your cake(or mistress) and eat it too & in the meantime.  Certainly no one could have predicted what eventually happened, but something was definitely going to front, given such a pressure cooker of a situation.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 11, 2015, 05:51:02 PM
According to a family member, this couple lived separate lives, albeit they did share the same home. This is more common than we think.

She  lives in respected social circles, as well as comfort, albeit the nuisance of turning in receipts for household expenses.
Perhaps, they were so used to each other after 47 years that they both had settled into their own comfort zone within
their relationship.

 I have a feeling that the last affair which lasted for 8 years, while it might have been the longest one that he had, was not his first.

Nothing is for free - there is a payment for everything (I say), and perhaps the "rewards" were greater than the "payment", in the case of C.
They had "history" together.  Children, grand children,  friendships, relatives, etc. And that can be very powerful in staying together and making "other arrangements"

In my most personal opinion, I think his mistress was a different type of comfort (obviously), but after reading her text messages sent to him
(which were produced in court), I got the impression that he really had no intention of leaving his life and social circles that he shared with Connie for her.  He was getting cold feet - as now it was push comes to shove - and Mistress was getting desperate.

I  think more will come out in court, as the mistress will have to be called as a witness (due to the fact that her text messages were brought in
as exhibits.)  Like you I could not see him parting with any of his money as support payment and settlements. After 47 years, C would have walked away with "the large"

Yes, quite possibly a pressure cooker - but who blew up??

I got the impression that he was by nature, a penny pincher. I have often noticed in life that well to do people have money because they only spend it for show,
but otherwise pinch pennies on many other things, where you and I would not. It has always surprised me. No, I have never travelled in these circles, but I have had close opportunities to observe it.

Having his wife submit household receipts for reimbursement, and yet raising millions for repairs to a cathedral!. This money was for repairs was not out of his pocket, but as a good citizen he would spend the time and effort to make the fund raising successful, and thus further the family name.
 

Quite frankly, I would have resented the secretary in having to hand in everything to her.  Most definitely!! Seems to me the secretary had more
pull and say than wife or mistress.  Anyhow, I know that I would have found a way to "make that little report" as the secretary  demeaningly calls it,
exceptionally time consuming to produce... But hey, that's just me. :)

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 11, 2015, 06:20:37 PM
Does anybody know who gets Dick's millions now?   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 12, 2015, 02:46:35 PM

I got the impression that he was by nature, a penny pincher. I have often noticed in life that well to do people have money because they only spend it for show,
but otherwise pinch pennies on many other things, where you and I would not. It has always surprised me. No, I have never travelled in these circles, but I have had close opportunities to observe it.

Having his wife submit household receipts for reimbursement, and yet raising millions for repairs to a cathedral!. This money was for repairs was not out of his pocket, but as a good citizen he would spend the time and effort to make the fund raising successful, and thus further the family name.

jb

Dick was actually a spender, his penny pinching confined to his family, excluding the 'advance' on Dennis' inheritance. He had an expensive custom built racing yacht, was building a new one, and raced it around the world in the big leagues paying for some hired crew and expenses for the rest, had the top of the line BMW, and had just expensively renovated his house. Sails for that boat are easily 25k a pop. He traveled to Toronto to buy his Italian suits (I wasn't aware Toronto was part of Italy) and other clothes, and travelled extensively to ski and vacation. This really began after his father's death when he inherited some money as prior to that his father held his purse strings fairly close to himself. Neither Dick nor his father spoiled their children materially.

It's often the case in these families that you didn't receive much (or any) money until your inheritance, so such major home renovations and expensive cars might have to wait, and to spend money on nicer trips and boats might make things a bit tight until later. You wouldn't make as much as a VP in the family business as you would as a surgeon or a successful lawyer in a big firm, though you still would likely do well (depending on how successful the family business was).

I would assume Connie gave her receipts to Dick to give to the secretary; if she had to do that herself that would have been truly horrid!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 12, 2015, 03:30:23 PM
Does anybody know who gets Dick's millions now?

I have no knowledge of the contents of his will but his family are the directors of the Far End Corp business and Connie lives in the house. The boat was sold, or at least is no longer listed on the brokerages website. Currenlty, used TP 52's are listed anywhere from 225k to 1,200k, dependant upon their age and location. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2015, 07:19:44 PM
Does anybody know who gets Dick's millions now?

I have no knowledge of the contents of his will but his family are the directors of the Far End Corp business and Connie lives in the house. The boat was sold, or at least is no longer listed on the brokerages website. Currenlty, used TP 52's are listed anywhere from 225k to 1,200k, dependant upon their age and location. 

In knowing what I know now, from your post about silk suits, etc, I say good for them - the family taking over the business.
I hope that it flourishes..... I did read that there were fears that this murder would damage the "Oland Brand".

I could not help but note that there is "no fire in the belly" of the prosecution.  But, perhaps the background which was provided explains it.
Also noted that other than the press, and family, there have been few spectators there.
But, I guess people have to work to earn a living - and those who cannot find work, could care less.

I was thinking about that insurance meeting.  Dick was having a "boat" built in Spain, perhaps he wanted to update the policy to cover it.?? Note question mark.....
Family stingy, tight hold on the purse strings - was taught to him by his father..... such a shame really.

Why didn't Dick place money in his wife's bank account, if she had one - to run the household.  Why turn in receipts to Dick's secretary period?
It looks like he gave her a "cash float" of sorts - and had to account for every cent by way of receipts. And no sense of privacy, as his secretary had to do a "little report for Dick"

One good thing - Mrs. Oland will no longer have to turn in receipts to be reimbursed for her house money!!  :)
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 12, 2015, 07:48:28 PM

I was thinking about that insurance meeting.  Dick was having a "boat" built in Spain, perhaps he wanted to update the policy to cover it.?? Note question mark.....
What a complicated and yes, family stingy man -! In my opinion only.

jb

I would love to know about that insurance meeting. MacLean's called it an estate meeting...

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/murder-and-a-maritime-dynasty-the-dick-oland-case/

CBC quotes her as saying it's regarding life insurance with agents (the plural)...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-trial-body-discovered-1.3232115

and I would love to hear their testimony too.   

Over the last year or so Moosehead has cut it's work force in half- they lost a contract to brew beer for the Guinness conglomerate and that must have been a big blow for them. They are the only mid size brewer left in Canada- now it's competitors are the Labatts/Inbev/Budweiser group and Molson Coors, 2 of the largest in the world, and all of the craft breweries located pretty much everywhere now. There's not much room left in the middle ground anymore I'm afraid. I do hope they survive; those jobs in Saint John have been good paying jobs for a long time, and they have long been generally considered good employers. It's a tough road to hoe for the current generation running the business, and I wish them well. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 12, 2015, 08:00:22 PM
Here is a woman's perspective -

Apart from Dick, the secretary would know every penny that Mrs. Oland spent and on what. The infidelity was bad enough, but having to account for your daily activities through receipts is shameful.
That falls under "Absolute total control" via the pocket book.
How demeaning. It would be bad enough having to keep your own records and account to him for every cent, but to have another person knowing my personal spending habits, would be a constant source of embarrassment to me.
It would be telling her that I am incapable for one thing, and actually what I did with my activities (you can tell a lot from receipts).
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 12, 2015, 08:05:10 PM
Here is a woman's perspective -

Apart from Dick, the secretary would know every penny that Mrs. Oland spent and on what. The infidelity was bad enough, but having to account for your daily activities through receipts is shameful.
That falls under "Absolute total control" via the pocket book.
How demeaning. It would be bad enough having to keep your own records and account to him for every cent, but to have another person knowing it, would be a constant source of embarrassment to me.

jb
My male perspective agrees.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 13, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
I think (current) Deputy Chief McCloskey should be asked to have his desk cleaned out by the end of his shift today.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-live-blog-oct-13-1.3268167

quoted:

"King says senior SJ officer Inspector McClusky called him into his office and suggested he not mention McClusky had viewed the body"

It's hard to have confidence in your police force when senior officers suggest to patrolmen that it's OK to lie on the stand.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 13, 2015, 12:32:49 PM
Some of the biggest liars in a courtroom are the police. They always lie to favor the prosecution, usually. I worked for a judge who told me that himself, he told me that the biggest liars were police officers. And many who are in jail, who are innocent, will verify that. How many times have we seen where evidence that was gathered was not produced by the prosecution to the defense lawyers. Many have been convicted because of failure to produce total closure of all evidence gathered at a crime scene. :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 13, 2015, 01:02:01 PM
I think (current) Deputy Chief McCloskey should be asked to have his desk cleaned out by the end of his shift today.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-live-blog-oct-13-1.3268167

quoted:

"King says senior SJ officer Inspector McClusky called him into his office and suggested he not mention McClusky had viewed the body"

It's hard to have confidence in your police force when senior officers suggest to patrolmen that it's OK to lie on the stand.

I guess he has never heard of perjury.  I hope he will be called to testify to explain himself.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 13, 2015, 01:11:01 PM
I think (current) Deputy Chief McCloskey should be asked to have his desk cleaned out by the end of his shift today.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-live-blog-oct-13-1.3268167

quoted:

"King says senior SJ officer Inspector McClusky called him into his office and suggested he not mention McClusky had viewed the body"

It's hard to have confidence in your police force when senior officers suggest to patrolmen that it's OK to lie on the stand.

I guess he has never heard of perjury.  I hope he will be called to testify to explain himself.

He's comin' up next!!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2015, 01:18:59 PM
Nxt is tomorrow - right? Is court adjourned for today?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-saint-john-1.3268364



Dennis Oland murder trial hears officer urged to lie about crime scene

Retired officer says Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey said he didn't 'have to tell anyone' McCloskey entered office

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 13, 2015 1:38 PM AT| Last Updated: Oct 13, 2015 3:42 PM AT
 
A retired Saint John Police Force officer says his supervisor suggested he lie on the stand about the Richard Oland murder scene.

Dennis Oland, Oct. 8, 2015
Dennis Oland, 47, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder in the 2011 death of his father, Richard Oland. (CBC)

Retired staff sergeant Mike King testified Tuesday that Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey, who was an inspector at the time, told him he didn't "have to" tell anyone that McCloskey went into the bloody office.

King said he replied that he had "never lied on the stand in 32 years" and he "wasn't about to start."

"I didn't care if it was a murder or a traffic ticket, I was telling the truth," he said during Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial.

Richard Oland's bludgeoned body was discovered on July 7, 2011, lying face down in a large pool of blood in his investment firm office. The prominent businessman had suffered 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands.

Dennis Oland, 47, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his office at 52 Canterbury St., the night before, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder.
■​Live blog: Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial: Oct. 13


King's revelation came under direct questioning by Crown prosecutor Patrick Wilbur.

Wilbur reminded King he was under oath and had sworn to tell the truth. "At any time previous to this did anyone suggest to do otherwise?" asked Wilbur.

"Yes," replied King.

He said his conversation with McCloskey occurred either before or during Oland's preliminary inquiry last year.

King said he never told any other superior officers about that conversation, but did tell Const. Stephen Davidson, the lead investigator in the Oland case, "this summer."

He also previously told Sgt. Charles Elgee and Const. Grant Lyons, he said.

King retired in April.

McCloskey was appointed deputy chief in January and served as acting chief after Bill Reid retired in April until the new chief, John Bates, was recently appointed.

ns-hi-richard-oland-852
Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. (Canadian Yachting Association)

Earlier Tuesday, another officer told the court he doesn't know why his colleagues didn't ask Dennis Oland to surrender the clothing he told them he was wearing when he last visited his father.

Const.Tony Gilbert made the statement while testifying Tuesday at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial in the 2011 death of Richard Oland.

Gilbert said he observed part of Dennis Oland's videotaped statement to police on July 7, 2011 — the day his father's bludgeoned body was discovered.

Defence lawyer Alan Gold suggested his client told Const. Stephen Davidson he was wearing some of the same clothing he had worn during that visit.

Gold asked Gilbert if there was "any good reason police wouldn't have asked him for those items" for forensic tests at that point.

Gilbert said he couldn't remember if he was present when Oland said that to Davidson. He also didn't know if Oland was considered a suspect at that point, he said.

Gold suggested Oland was "enough of a suspect" that he was under surveillance from the time he left the police station and asked again if there was "any good reason" why police wouldn't have asked him for that clothing.

Gilbert said there's "more to it than just asking him," referring to a required consent form.

"You don't know if he would have consented if you never asked him," said Gold.

Gold asked Gilbert if he would have asked Oland for the clothing, assuming he was a suspect and under surveillance at that point. "Perhaps," he replied.

The court heard earlier in the trial that Davidson had been a police officer for 12 years, but had only joined the major crime unit three days before Richard Oland's body was discovered. Three months later, he was put in charge of the case when the lead investigator retired.

Lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot said during his opening statement to the jury that police seized a brown sports jacket from Dennis Oland's closet. The jacket, which still had a dry cleaning tag attached, had four areas of blood on it that matched Richard Oland's DNA.

The accused had told police he was wearing a navy blazer when he went to visit his father at Far End Corporation on July 6, 2011, the court heard. But Richard Oland's secretary testified he was wearing a brown jacket when he arrived around 5:30 p.m. He was also captured on video surveillance earlier in the day wearing a brown jacket.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 13, 2015, 01:30:40 PM
Nxt is tomorrow - right? Is court adjourned for today?

jb

Yup!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 13, 2015, 03:03:32 PM
http://www.thewave.ca/news/1238830661/new-deputy-chief-named

New Deputy Chief Named
   

Posted on Friday, January 16, 2015 13:24 PM

A 26-year vet of the Saint John Police Force is celebrating a pretty significant promotion today.

Inspector Glen McCloskey has been named Deputy Chief of the Saint John Police Force at a ceremony crowded with officers, politicians, friends and family. McCloskey tells CHSJ News he's honoured to have been chosen - and with the news Police Chief Bill Reid will be retiring at the end of April, he will be instrumental in getting the new chief up to speed once they're hired.

In a speech, McCloskey said policing is at a crossroads -- and law enforcement can't ignore the economic, political, and social forces at work that effect how the job will be done in the future.
 
- See more at: http://www.thewave.ca/news/1238830661/new-deputy-chief-named#sthash.LOPbRieN.dpuf
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-king-police-1.3270115


Dennis Oland trial hears deputy chief entered crime scene twice

Glen McCloskey, who was inspector in 2011, went into Richard Oland's office to 'observe body'

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 14, 2015 10:56 AM AT| Last Updated: Oct 14, 2015 1:37 PM AT


Saint John Police Force Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey says he entered the Richard Oland crime scene twice on the day the prominent businessman's bludgeoned body was discovered — once to "observe the body" and then again out of "curiosity."

McCloskey, who was an inspector at the time and was there only as a "resource person," also went out the back door located in the foyer outside Oland's office, which Dennis Oland's defence lawyers have suggested would have been the "preferred exit route" of the killer.

McCloskey made the statements during his testimony Wednesday morning at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial.
■Live blog: Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial Oct. 14

McCloskey has not yet been asked about Tuesday's allegation by retired staff sergeant Mike King that he suggested King lie to the court about his presence at the bloody crime scene.

King testified that some time last year, either before or during Dennis Oland's preliminary inquiry, McCloskey, who was an inspector at the time and his supervisor, referred to another officer as being an "idiot" for having said that McCloskey had entered the scene.

King said his reaction was, "You were in the room." McCloskey's reply, according to King, was, "Well, you don't have to tell them that."

Richard Oland's body was discovered in his second-storey investment firm office at 52 Canterbury St., on July 7, 2011. He had suffered 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands.
Dennis Oland, 47, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his office the night before, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder.

The Saint John Police Force has faced scrutiny over its maintenance of the crime scene and the investigation as a whole.

McCloskey said King called him after the victim's body was found, asking him to come to the crime scene. It was not unusual for him to attend a homicide scene, he said.

McCloskey entered Oland's office later that morning "to observe the body" with King and Sgt. Dave Brooker, of the major crime unit. Sgt. Mark Smith, the head of the forensic identification unit, was leading the way.

They all followed the same path and went only as far as Smith indicated, said McCloskey. He believes he was the last one in, because he was the tallest.

"I don't remember touching anything," said McCloskey, adding he was not wearing any protective gloves or booties at the time.

Mike King, retired staff sergeant, Saint John Police Force
Mike King, a retired staff sergeant with the Saint John Police Force, testified Tuesday there was no misunderstanding about the fact that Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey wanted him to lie. (CBC)

He estimates they were only in the office between 45 seconds and one minute before leaving, likely backing their way out because they were in such "close quarters."

He was not directing the investigation or assisting in any way, he said under direct questioning by Crown prosecutor Patrick Wilbur, as a courtroom full of spectators looked on.

McCloskey said he entered the bloody office again around 12:30 p.m. with Const. Greg Oram, of the major crime unit to "look around."

"We walked in, roughly where Sgt. Smith had taken us to" and took a step closer to some filing cabinets in order to enter a room at the back of the office, he said, adding he noticed some small drops of blood on the floor.

Asked what the purpose was, the 27-year veteran replied, "Curiosity, I guess."




Before long, Smith instructed them to "get out," he said.

Can't recall if he touched back door

Later on, in the foyer area outside Oland's office, McCloskey noticed a door that exited to a back alley, almost at ground level because the building is on a hill.

The door was open at the time and he went outside, he said. "I couldn't say with any certainty whether I handled it or did not handle it at that point."

Asked whether any instructions had been given to anyone about touching or using that door, he replied, "None that I'm aware of."

McCloskey said he looked around for three or four minutes, then went back inside.

Not easy to 'blow the whistle'




Earlier in the day, Mike King testified that it was not a pleasant decision to reveal his supervisor had encouraged him to lie to the court about the case.


"I take it it was not a pleasant decision for you to blow the whistle on what took place at this time?" defence lawyer Alan Gold asked him during cross-examination.

"Very difficult," replied King.

King said he told McCloskey he had "never lied on the stand in 32 years" and he "wasn't about to start."

Gold said when King disclosed the conversation to the Crown prosecutors last month, he said: "I'm just getting it off my chest. It's been bothering me for a long time."

King retired as staff sergeant in April after more than three decades on the force. He had applied for an inspector's position before he retired.

"What would you say to the allegation you're just saying these things about McCloskey because you got turned down for inspector and you're bitter?" asked Gold.

"False," replied King. He said he wasn't turned down. The process hadn't even started yet. He had applied, but decided to retire due to health reasons after a conversation with his doctor.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2015, 06:46:46 PM
In the blog there was a mention of a very small hammer found in the office.

Quote
McCloskey mentions in passing that an officer there "found a small hammer." Wilbur doesn't pursue. Crown has said no weapon was ever found

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3269959
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 14, 2015, 08:13:39 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-chief-orders-probe-of-allegations-about-deputy-in-oland-case-1.3271326


Saint John chief orders probe of allegations about deputy in Oland case

Glen McCloskey accused of suggesting another officer lie about his presence at crime scene

By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 14, 2015 9:43 PM AT| Last Updated: Oct 14, 2015 9:43 PM AT

The Saint John Police Force's new chief has ordered an investigation into allegations that Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey suggested another officer lie under oath about the Richard Oland murder case.

Chief John Bates has directed the force's professional standards unit to look into the issue, raised Tuesday by retired staff sergeant Mike King during his testimony at Dennis Oland's murder trial and denied Wednesday by McCloskey.

The Saint John Board of Police Commissioners and the New Brunswick Police Commission have both been advised, Bates said in an emailed statement to CBC News.

Bates will "be in consultation with the NBPC with regard to conducting a thorough investigation into the allegation," the statement said.

McCloskey, who served as the force's acting chief between Bill Reid's retirement in April and a few weeks ago when Bates took over the role, remains on active duty.
■Live blog: Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial Oct. 14

Dennis Oland trial hears deputy chief entered crime scene twice


Dennis Oland murder trial hears officer urged to lie about crime scene



On Wednesday, McCloskey denied King's allegations that he suggested he alter his testimony about McCloskey's presence in the bloody murder scene.

He suggested during his testimony at Dennis Oland's trial that it was King who lied on the stand because he was angry about being passed over for a promotion to inspector.

Bates said it would be improper for him to comment on any of the testimony.


'Our members go about their duties with my full confidence; they have already earned and continue to hold the confidence and respect of the greater Saint John community.'

- John Bates, Saint John Police Force chief

But he said "the men and women of the Saint John Police Force have and will continue to deliver exceptional and first-rate service to this community each and every day."

"Our members go about their duties with my full confidence; they have already earned and continue to hold the confidence and respect of the greater Saint John community."

King testified that some time last year, either before or during Dennis Oland's preliminary inquiry, McCloskey, who was an inspector at the time and his supervisor, referred to another officer as being an "idiot" for having said that McCloskey had entered the scene.

King said his reaction was, "You were in the room." McCloskey's reply, according to King, was, "Well, you don't have to tell them that."

When asked about King's allegation that McCloskey also had a box of evidence related to the Oland case in his office, against normal procedure, McCloskey said he couldn't recall.

Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey, Saint John Police Force
Deputy Chief Glen McCloskey testified Wednesday that he didn't suggest anyone alter their testimony about his presence at the Richard Oland crime scene. (CBC)

McCloskey was also asked about a clandestine meeting King alleged he had set up for him one night at midnight at the Boston Pizza parking lot on the city's east side.

King said a man, whom he believed to be an RCMP officer, got into his vehicle, told him to drive to the yacht club in the city's north end and instructed him that if any calls came into dispatch regarding suspicious activity in the area, King should redirect his officers from responding.

Defence lawyer Alan Gold revealed that a boat search related to the Oland case had been conducted at the Royal Kennebecasis Yacht Club.

McCloskey said the meeting had nothing to do with the Oland case, but rather was related to a "high level RCMP investigation" he was not at liberty to discuss.

​Richard Oland's body was discovered in his investment firm office at 52 Canterbury St., on July 7, 2011. He had suffered 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands.


Dennis Oland, 47, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his office the night before, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder.

The Saint John Board of Police Commissioners is the governance authority for the police force. Its role is "to establish a vision and actionable objectives for the community, to provide oversight (including complaints) and to ensure accountability in the application of police resources to accomplish the objectives, according to its web site.

"The Saint John Board of Police Commissioners has a responsibility under the Police Act to "provide and maintain an adequate police force" and to advise Common Council accordingly, so the municipality can budget the necessary money. In determining what constitutes an adequate police force, the Board (in consultation with the Chief of Police) has established priorities and objectives," the web site states.

The New Brunswick Police Commission is an independent oversight body, which investigates and resolves citizens' complaints relating to the conduct of police officers, according to its web site.

It also determines if municipal, regional, and Royal Canadian Mounted Police forces offer "adequate services within the Province and whether each municipality and the Province are carrying out their responsibility for the maintenance of an acceptable level of police services," the web site states.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-chief-orders-probe-of-allegations-about-deputy-in-oland-case-1.3271326
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 15, 2015, 11:03:22 AM

No doubt some of this delay may have been due to lack of manpower (on both forces - the murder scene still should have been better secured, though - no excise for that), budget restraints and who knows what else.   It's all fuel for the Defence, together with all the other "distractions".



http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3272165
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 15, 2015, 07:09:27 PM
Quite the day - today.  Blood spatter may be able to give a clearer picture.  Crime scene altered due to stupidity, will not help with the prosecution, but
may give a "stay out of jail" free card to DO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-blood-analysis-1.3272165

Quote
Wentzell said blood follows the laws of physics and that its patterns are "predictable and reproducible."

Some of the things a bloodstain pattern analyst may be able to determine include: the position of the victim and assailant, any movement of the bleeding victim, the minimal number of blows involved, and the mechanism used.

RCMP Sgt. Brian Wentzell, blood stain pattern expert
RCMP Sgt. Brian Wentzell says the best opportunity for blood stain analysis is when the body is present and the scene is undisturbed. (CBC)

They may also be able to confirm or refute the statements of witnesses or an accused, he said during a PowerPoint presentation to the court about the science behind bloodstain analysis
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 15, 2015, 08:43:33 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-blood-dna-weapon-1.3262170

If you look at picture number 8, the pants pocket of Dicks has been pulled out. It would be the right hand pocket.
Did the killer remove something from it?

Was it Richard's cell phone (ipad)??

jd
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 15, 2015, 08:58:17 PM
And
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-suspect-s-cellphone-data-seized-1.1358013

Cell Phone Records - snippets from article dealing with cell phones.

Saint John police have the cellphone records of a "viable suspect" in the murder of prominent businessman Richard Oland, newly-released court documents show.

Investigators obtained the records, hoping they might provide some important evidence and possible timelines in the case, the documents made public on Wednesday state.

The man cannot be identified, according to a publication ban.

Police also obtained the cellphone records of Oland and his long-time mistress, Diana Sedlacek, the documents show.

The cellphone records include telephone subscriber information, incoming and outgoing calls, cellular tower data, Global Positioning System data and text messages.

Details about who called or texted whom and when have not been released, only the production orders and affidavits officers used to seize the data from the respective cellphone service providers in the weeks and months following Oland’s death.

- Oland’s primary means of communication was through text messaging, his wife of 46 years, Constance Oland, had told police.

The redacted documents suggest police had been unable to locate Oland’s cellphone But on July 9, police did obtain his cellphone records from Rogers Communications in Montreal.

- On July 15, police also executed a production order at Telus Communications in Scarborough, Ont., for the cellphone records of the unnamed suspect, covering July 6 and 7.

Among the newly-released information, the man told police on July 7 that he had sent a text message to his sister the night before in error. He had meant to send it to his wife, according to the documents.

What the text message said or when it was sent are not revealed so the relevance to the investigation is unknown.

On Sept. 1, police went back to court, seeking another production order for the suspect’s cellphone records for between July 7 and 15.

- Several items were also seized, including the man’s cellphone, the documents state.

"We were advised by Telus Communications that they retain all text message content and therefore believe that July 7th to the 15th 2011 would provide information in relation to this investigation," Const. Stacy Humphrey stated in the sworn information to obtain the production order.

- Police also obtained the cell records of Oland’s mistress of eight years, Diana Sedlacek, the newly-released documents show. They executed a production order at Rogers Communications in Montreal on July 15.

Sedlacek had told police she had regular contact with Oland through phone conversations and text messaging.

She contacted him every day at 6:30 p.m. and he always answered, she had said.

On July 6, Sedlacek and Oland had been messaging about a trip they were planning together to Maine.

The last time she heard from him was at 12:01 p.m., advising her of possible times they could go, the documents show.

Previously-released warrants indicated the last outgoing signal from Oland’s phone was received from the cellular tower at 1 Brunswick Square, in Saint John’s uptown on July 6.

The time of the so-called ping has been redacted.

The last location of Oland’s phone was near a cellular tower at the Riverside Country Club, located at 2524 Rothesay Rd., in the neighbouring suburb of Rothesay, the documents show.

Again, the time has been blacked out.

A telecommunications analyst told police the radius of the tower is about 0.5 kilometres west, four kilometres north and five to six kilometres east.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So the killer had Richard's cell phone with him and it pinged at the cellular tower at the Riverside Country Club - near Rothesay./jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 16, 2015, 12:42:29 PM




That pesky brown jacket


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-jacket-stains-1.3274447

snippets from article.

RCMP Sgt. Brian Wentzell, a blood spatter expert, testified about the five areas of staining he found on the jacket.

The stains were in the upper left chest area and on both sleeves, said Wentzell.

They ranged in size from "sub-millimetre" to about two centimetres, he said.

All five stains were visible without using any special enhancements, but they "varied in concentrations" and some were "quite faint," said Wentzell.

"Because of the colour of the jacket, they don't show up very well," he added.

Lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot previously told the jury during his opening statement at the beginning of the trial that four areas of blood were found on the jacket, which had been dry cleaned and still had the tag attached.

"DNA scientists will testify that in each of those locations, a DNA profile was found … It matched that of Richard Oland," Veniot had said.





Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 17, 2015, 05:41:01 AM
Depends on the cellular system/software and also the model of the mobile device itself, as to how specific an
area that can be narrowed down and assumed for ping data.  I don't think we know enough at this time and
wouldn't be surprised if a telecommunications expert was summoned for some grilling. Interesting though in
that the tower noted is less than a kilometer from the Renforth wharf area and with the time of said recorded ping
being absolutely critical in this case.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 17, 2015, 08:49:37 AM
Depends on the cellular system/software and also the model of the mobile device itself, as to how specific an
area that can be narrowed down and assumed for ping data.  I don't think we know enough at this time and
wouldn't be surprised if a telecommunications expert was summoned for some grilling. Interesting though in
that the tower noted is less than a kilometer from the Renforth wharf area and with the time of said recorded ping
being absolutely critical in this case.

If Richard's phone's last ping came from the RGCC surely that means the phone had left the city and was in the Rothesay or MacKay Highway area?   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 17, 2015, 11:36:58 AM
I don't think even an expert would answer definitively 'yes' - until they were briefed on the cellular infrastructure, software, terrain, and cell phone in question and also compared to the history of Dick's phone data with that particular time of day.  For example, in some systems, random towers are pinged, sometimes multiple towers are pinged from the same site, sometimes there are ghost pings (re: software errors).  All things being equal, though, and with the de facto standard wireless technologies in place circa:2011,  I think your assumption is more right than wrong.   Let's see what additional info/data/evidence comes forth in the days/weeks to come ...
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2015, 01:56:08 PM
What are your thoughts on the blood stains found in the inside lining of the sleeves on the jacket?
Will defence blame it on the drycleaners? example transferred by drycleaning method?

see link for pictures

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-jacket-stains-1.3274447

and I wonder if the blood spatter expert would be able to paint a scene as to the actual killing. eg. was Dick seated at the first attack, etc.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 17, 2015, 04:38:59 PM
I don't think even an expert would answer definitively 'yes' - until they were briefed on the cellular infrastructure, software, terrain, and cell phone in question and also compared to the history of Dick's phone data with that particular time of day.  For example, in some systems, random towers are pinged, sometimes multiple towers are pinged from the same site, sometimes there are ghost pings (re: software errors).  All things being equal, though, and with the de facto standard wireless technologies in place circa:2011,  I think your assumption is more right than wrong.   Let's see what additional info/data/evidence comes forth in the days/weeks to come ...

Wow, thanks for that! I had just assumed it would automatically ping off of the nearest tower. I appreciate the info!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 17, 2015, 04:41:38 PM
Quote
What are your thoughts on the blood stains found in the inside lining of the sleeves on the jacket?
Will defence blame it on the drycleaners? example transferred by drycleaning method?


Sometimes  my hammer 'runs up' my sweater sleeve because when you 'swing' a hammer your sleeve jumps forward a tad with the momentum. Is it possible that it was splatter transfer from the hand -> handle grip of the weapon? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 17, 2015, 04:48:53 PM
What are your thoughts on the blood stains found in the inside lining of the sleeves on the jacket?
Will defence blame it on the drycleaners? example transferred by drycleaning method?

see link for pictures

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-jacket-stains-1.3274447

and I wonder if the blood spatter expert would be able to paint a scene as to the actual killing. eg. was Dick seated at the first attack, etc.

jb

Since the defence will start cross examining on Monday I would think the time for that crime scene painting has passed. Perhaps that idea was one of the sustained defence objections?

If the drawings on the pics reflect size I would think a transfer that large to the sleeve would be unlikely. On the other hand, my knowledge of such issues is pretty much, well, zippo.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2015, 07:42:51 PM
I am thinking of a golf club - a long handled instrument which would enable the perpetrator to keep some distance from the victim as he struck. The blood and fluids could creep up the sleeve, as snowhite suggested with a motion of a hammer?

I know nothing about golf, but do some clubs not have that cross hatched pattern? Not sure if clubs would be sharp enough for slicing motions though.

Did Dick golf? Is it possible that Dick might have had one kicking around his office?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 17, 2015, 08:40:22 PM
I am thinking of a golf club - a long handled instrument which would enable the perpetrator to keep some distance from the victim as he struck. The blood and fluids could creep up the sleeve, as snowhite suggested with a motion of a hammer?

I know nothing about golf, but do some clubs not have that cross hatched pattern? Not sure if clubs would be sharp enough for slicing motions though.

Did Dick golf? Is it possible that Dick might have had one kicking around his office?

jb

Most golf clubs have the basic horizontal lines etched into the club face. Regardless, I think the face of a golf club is too wide to make the impressions, and the lines are engraved rather than extruded. Equipment makers did come up with a variety of different club face designs that the PGA eventually outlawed, but you don't see them around much anymore. Neither Dennis nor Dick are golfers but I would not be surprised if Dick was a social member at Riverside as many business folk who live in Rothesay are. 

That "backswing" theory of blood splatter to the inner sleeve postulated by Snowhite certainly seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 17, 2015, 08:41:44 PM
* cross-posted with BaySailor * The older, more vintage clubs had cross hatching.  Most modern clubs have grooves that run horizontally and are used to apply spin and thus control the trajectory and range of the ball.  Could be exceptions to that though.  I was thinking more along the lines of a crude, home-made tool constructed from odds & ends laying around and designed for both concealment and maximum 'thwacking' force.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2015, 09:27:29 PM
I have a feeling that the weapon used was readily available in the office,  after a discussion, the perp went into a rage and  grabbed the weapon and savagely beat the victim to death with it.

The victim was charged with second degree - so it was not planned ie bring own weapon.

A small hammer was located in victims office, but it was described as being toy like.

There could have been another hammer, used for bldg shelves, putting up pictures etc.
A larger hammer has more uses than a small one.

But snowhite has me thinking that perhaps it was a weapon with a longer handle. A normal handled hammer would bring the perp into closer proximity to the victim, and the perp would be covered in blood, even his face, shirt etc.

He would of had to wash up if that was the case, and the bathroom on the second floor had dna (old dna on a paper towel from other person).

I gathered from the secretary that victim was a bit of a hoarder. Is it possible that the victim had an older golf club sitting in the corner of his office, long forgotten.

Or is there a tool with a long handle that would be used for sailing that could have been in Dicks office, and still have cross hatches, and be used for cutting as well?

We will never know of course.
But I certainly agree that the weapon would of had to have a handle longer than an ordinary sized hammer.

do roofing hammers have very long handles??

Come to think of it, there is nothing saying that witnesses cannot be re-called either.

This jacket "business" is not looking good for the accused.
I am surprised that the prosecution did not hammer away on the stains as to their location with blood spatter expert. What is up with him?  Perhaps he is not finished with this witness.

Monday is election day, will the court be held or postponed until Tuesday? Does anyone know?
 I apologize if my questions appear to be somewhat silly. It is the frustration of not getting any answers from the experts. 
jb





Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 17, 2015, 09:47:29 PM
Quote
do roofing hammers have very long handles??


I'm would have to do a bit of digging for the answer to that JB (although it would likely be pretty easy to find), however I do know that framing hammers have extra long handles.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2015, 10:00:25 PM
Quote
do roofing hammers have very long handles??
Aha - there was construction going on down the street from Dick's office at the time - I will see if I can locate that statement - saw it somewhere.

jb

I'm would have to do a bit of digging for the answer to that JB (although it would likely be pretty easy to find), however I do know that framing hammers have extra long handles.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2015, 10:04:53 PM
Found it.
http://www.citynews.ca/2015/09/24/trial-to-resume-for-dennis-oland-charged-with-murder-of-his-businessman-father/

Quote
Earlier, a police officer testified about the search for a weapon. Const. Don Shannon of the Saint John Police Force said he checked along buildings, in grass, under cars and a construction area down the street, but found nothing during an hour-long search.[\quote]
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 17, 2015, 10:15:24 PM
I've done a bit of digging JB. Apparently there are specialty tools that you can purchase (including roofing hammers) that do have extra long handles.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 17, 2015, 10:34:41 PM
Forum members knowledge around the specifics of roofing hammers, framing hammers, and the like has me feeling like a pretty novice do-it-yourselfer. Which I am, I suppose. I'm impressed.

Just a quick note on things- the CCTV at Thandi's time-stamped 6:12 (some 30 minutes after the time Dennis had originally arrived at Far End, by all accounts) shows Dennis crossing the street from the restaurant side to the other, directly in front of his father's office. Carrying the red bag.

http://www.thetide.ca/news/959352454/jury-sees-surveillance-video-thandis-restaurant
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 18, 2015, 06:56:33 AM
That's one brief, grainy video.  Do the dress shirt cuffs look a bit askew/ over exposed to anybody?  Is there any surveillance video of him entering the building?  I'd be curious, just for comparison, to see the shirt/jacket cuff relationship before the meeting and if he was also carrying the red bag with his left hand. I see the image of him exiting the coffee shop, on the day of the murder. The left hand sleeve carrying the coffee is a bit exposed while the right hand sleeve is covered. No smoking gun or anything here, but on the other hand you wouldn't expect too much change to anything in an a casual 30 minute meeting about family history. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 18, 2015, 11:33:24 AM
Hello. My first post on this forum. Hope no one minds my barging in. I have been reading here for awhile. It's my opinion, Dennis having his father's blood DNA on his jacket is the clincher as there is no other reason for it to be there other than he did this horrible violent act. If indeed he brought a weapon to his father's office then there is premeditation. I don't understand (along with other things) why Dick's cell phone was taken. Or to have such a inclination or forethought or afterthought to take it after this violent act. It, imo, was a rage killing. Could there have been something incriminating on the phone. Can't imagine what as technology being what it is today, police can find records of pretty much everything. Except maybe pictures.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 18, 2015, 11:58:05 AM
Can one of you regular posters please answer this: Is Dennis considered to be left handed?

Some of you are on this thread everyday and have likely had the opportunity to read a lot more extensively than I have.

Thanks in advance.

Debbie
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 18, 2015, 01:07:17 PM
Sorry DebbieC, I have read everything here and honestly do not think the left/right handedness of Dennis Oland has been mentioned.

As for the hammer vs golf club type scenerio, I tend to think it's a roofing/drywall hammer as I can't see how a golf club or longer handled weapon could
have been removed from the office building easily like the hammer could have.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 18, 2015, 01:36:23 PM
Debbiec:  I believe I see a brown glove on his left hand. Noticeable when he is at the rear of the black car as he steps off the pavement to cross the street.

Can you see it, or is it just me.?

http://www.thetide.ca/news/959352454/jury-sees-surveillance-video-thandis-restaurant

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 18, 2015, 02:08:22 PM
from PandaBearKitty:
Quote
Sorry DebbieC, I have read everything here and honestly do not think the left/right handedness of Dennis Oland has been mentioned.

Thank for going to the effort. I too have read everything here (as I read all posts that are written, albeit sometimes rather quickly) but because I hadn't seen it, felt I may have missed it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 18, 2015, 02:18:53 PM
Debbiec:  I believe I see a brown glove on his left hand. Noticeable when he is at the rear of the black car as he steps off the pavement to cross the street.

Can you see it, or is it just me.?

http://www.thetide.ca/news/959352454/jury-sees-surveillance-video-thandis-restaurant

jb

Hi JB, I've watched the video many times over now. I watched it on full screen and slowed it down. As far as I can tell it is not a brown glove, however it is such a short clip (and not really of the best quality) that I am not 100% positive what it is that appears to be brown just for a second. Perhaps it is the space between the handles on the bag where his clothing shows through?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 18, 2015, 02:22:48 PM
I'm gonna take a wild guess that he's a lefty because he carries (multiple photos on Google images) his umbrella with his right hand.  I'm right handed and have never carried my umbrella in my right hand.  I think most people use their none dominant hand for this task.  Just a guess though, & there are sure to be plenty of exceptions to this. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 18, 2015, 02:33:46 PM
Left handed or right handed??     hhhmmmm    I'm ambidextrous, can do things very well with both hands.   Depends what I'm doing -- whether I do it left or right handed.   
It's so bad if you tell me right or left I have to stop and think which way is which.   LOL   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 18, 2015, 02:39:07 PM
I slowed the video down to 2.  And now I see brown gloves on both hands. ??? (lol)
Anyone else see this?  I too think he may well be a lefty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-QgVuwM1w


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 18, 2015, 02:43:39 PM
I'm gonna take a wild guess that he's a lefty because he carries (multiple photos on Google images) his umbrella with his right hand.  I'm right handed and have never carried my umbrella in my right hand.  I think most people use their none dominant hand for this task.  Just a guess though, & there are sure to be plenty of exceptions to this.

I'm not sure what would be considered normal (for carrying an umbrella) myself, as I am left handed and do many, many things with my right hand only. Writing is one of the few things I can only do left handedly. I cannot however, use a pair of scissors or do many other tasks with my left hand. Throwing a ball, catching, batting or bowling would all be done with my right hand. That having been said there are many other things that I do with whatever hand is convenient. When I think of carrying an umbrella I do think it would likely be more natural to use my right hand.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 18, 2015, 05:34:03 PM
he's a righty.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 18, 2015, 07:16:00 PM
he's a righty.

I suppose I should reference something:

watch from the 4:00 mark...

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Raw+Video/ID/2675823160/
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 18, 2015, 07:55:11 PM
Yes,,,,, he enters his debit/credit pin with his right hand.  That task/function helps to illustrate a far more definitive diagnosis.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 18, 2015, 08:15:36 PM
Is Thandi's Restaurant directly across the street from RO's bldg? Or is it diagonally across the street.

Was Dennis  captured going into RO's  bldg at 5:30, by camera -I can't remember?

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 18, 2015, 08:23:38 PM
Is Thandi's Restaurant directly across the street from RO's bldg? Or is it diagonally across the street.

Was Dennis  captured going into RO's  bldg at 5:30, by camera -I can't remember?

jb

Directly across the street.

To the best of my knowledge there is no footage of Dennis going into the office.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 19, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
I read today's tweets of trial today, and I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the assailant not having copious amounts of blood on him..... the attack was so vicious with many blows which spread around the room.  Not necessarily according to Wenzell.

This was a "messy murder", floors had to be replaced, etc to bring the office up to standard.
And yet, the accused walks away with stains on jacket only? 

Gold did a superb  job today.....

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 19, 2015, 01:28:27 PM
Yes it is hard to believe there wasn't blood on his shirt at least. Especially around the cuffs since there was some on the inside of the jacket cuffs. But, there was blood and the DNA expert will confirm whose it was. Although I believe we already know the answer. Could it be possible Dennis somehow, somewhere on the drive home disposed of the bag and it's contents including the phone and just gave police another bag and said this was the one he had taken to the office? And, what did he buy at the hardware store? There must be a video and a store receipt as they are computerized. Maybe he didn't buy anything but odd he would go there. I also wonder if there was surveillance of Dennis leaving the office, why wouldn't there be surveillance of him entering? Not important?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 19, 2015, 02:12:43 PM
I also wonder if there was surveillance of Dennis leaving the office, why wouldn't there be surveillance of him entering? Not important?

I wonder if there is any video evidence of him arriving or leaving. The only CCTV we have is 15 seconds of a stationary camera showing him cross the street towards his father's office at 6:12. Am I missing something? I don't recall any evidence/talk of other video on this block that actually shows him arriving or leaving. We just see this one snippet. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 02:53:36 PM
I read today's tweets of trial today, and I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the assailant not having copious amounts of blood on him..... the attack was so vicious with many blows which spread around the room.  Not necessarily according to Wenzell.

This was a "messy murder", floors had to be replaced, etc to bring the office up to standard.
And yet, the accused walks away with stains on jacket only? 

Gold did a superb  job today.....

All hypothetical, isn't it?  How much time passed between the day of the murder and the search of the residence?  Are we certain that he did not dispose of the pants, shirts & shoes in the interim? What day is garbage day in that area?  Or are we just taking his word for it, that he didn't and that the shoes, shirt and pants were the same ones within his wardrobe and that were confiscated by police.  The same word that allegedly professed that he was wearing a blue jacket, not brown jacket on that day.  I think the defendant should, at the very least, have the opportunity to explain the confusion over the color of the jacket.  A reasonable explanation might just be the push he needs when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 19, 2015, 03:25:25 PM

All hypothetical, isn't it?  How much time passed between the day of the murder and the search of the residence?  Are we certain that he did not dispose of the pants, shirts & shoes in the interim? What day is garbage day in that area?  Or are we just taking his word for it, that he didn't and that the shoes, shirt and pants were the same ones within his wardrobe and that were confiscated by police.  The same word that allegedly professed that he was wearing a blue jacket, not brown jacket on that day.  I think the defendant should, at the very least, have the opportunity to explain the confusion over the color of the jacket.  A reasonable explanation might just be the push he needs when all is said and done.
Exactly one week after the murder the search warrant was executed on the house. I completely concur with your comments. Garbage collection is Thursday, but I doubt any killer would dispose of bloodied clothes in their own garbage.

 http://www.rothesay.ca/assets/Uploads/PDFS/WasteCollectionDaysOftheWeek.pdf

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/slain-oland-s-son-focus-of-search-warrant-1.1019456
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 03:43:00 PM

All hypothetical, isn't it?  How much time passed between the day of the murder and the search of the residence?  Are we certain that he did not dispose of the pants, shirts & shoes in the interim? What day is garbage day in that area?  Or are we just taking his word for it, that he didn't and that the shoes, shirt and pants were the same ones within his wardrobe and that were confiscated by police.  The same word that allegedly professed that he was wearing a blue jacket, not brown jacket on that day.  I think the defendant should, at the very least, have the opportunity to explain the confusion over the color of the jacket.  A reasonable explanation might just be the push he needs when all is said and done.
Exactly one week after the murder the search warrant was executed on the house. I completely concur with your comments. Garbage collection is Thursday, but I doubt any killer would dispose of bloodied clothes in their own garbage.

 http://www.rothesay.ca/assets/Uploads/PDFS/WasteCollectionDaysOftheWeek.pdf

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/slain-oland-s-son-focus-of-search-warrant-1.1019456

Good point. Although you wouldn't necessarily expect the killer to run them off to the local dry cleaners the next day either. You could (hypothetically) cut up the shirt/pants and then use the strips to clean and varnish your shoes, then put the used strips in the red compliments bag and put it out with the trash in the morning. Then replace the red bag in the trunk with another.  Might take an hour for that?;  he had a whole week.  Not too extraordinary, one would think ........
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 19, 2015, 03:50:57 PM
I thought the witness stood up well under an intense cross-examination.  If indeed, the jacket in question, is the one Dennis was wearing the night he visited his father, I would not think the blood would have been there very long.  I somehow doubt he would be wearing a jacket to work, etc that had bloodstains on it.  Just my opinion, of course.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-trial-1.3277845
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 19, 2015, 04:56:50 PM
I thought the witness stood up well under an intense cross-examination.  If indeed, the jacket in question, is the one Dennis was wearing the night he visited his father, I would not think the blood would have been there very long.  I somehow doubt he would be wearing a jacket to work, etc that had bloodstains on it.  Just my opinion, of course.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-trial-1.3277845

But per that link,  Wentzell and Gold agreed they were small enough to potentially not be noticed by the wearer.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 19, 2015, 05:20:20 PM
The timeline is a problem for the Crown if they are proposing the murder took place between 5:45 and just after 6:00pm.   I can't see how Dennis could have pulled this off, unless he had an accomplice who did the actual killing for him. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 05:27:23 PM
The timeline is a problem for the Crown if they are proposing the murder took place between 5:45 and just after 6:00pm.   I can't see how Dennis could have pulled this off, unless he had an accomplice who did the actual killing for him.
Can you elaborate on that a bit more?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 19, 2015, 06:33:57 PM
The timeline is a problem for the Crown if they are proposing the murder took place between 5:45 and just after 6:00pm.   I can't see how Dennis could have pulled this off, unless he had an accomplice who did the actual killing for him.
Can you elaborate on that a bit more?


There is no evidence to show that Dennis cleaned himself up in the offices or bathroom, or changed his shirt, pants and shoes.  He appears to be wearing the same clothes in the Thandi restaurant video at 6:12 pm. 

He could have planned the murder, and arranged for someone to use the alley door, which he would unlock once the secretary left.

That person could have dressed in coveralls and could have had a change of shoes etc.  He would have left by the alley door and walked off unnoticed. 

Dennis shortly appears in a surveillance video by chance or design, looking perfectly coiffed and clear of blood stains.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 19, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
To my way of thinking, the timeline might hinge on the employees, who heard the thumps and shuffling sounds coming from above, from Dick's office will carry some weight.

Nothing saying, that accused did not set up a later evening appointment with his Dad, and went back later in the evening. The time of the ping of the physical location of Dick's cell phone at Club area would also give a timeline.

We don't know either yet.

jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
The timeline is a problem for the Crown if they are proposing the murder took place between 5:45 and just after 6:00pm.   I can't see how Dennis could have pulled this off, unless he had an accomplice who did the actual killing for him.
Can you elaborate on that a bit more?


There is no evidence to show that Dennis cleaned himself up in the offices or bathroom, or changed his shirt, pants and shoes.  He appears to be wearing the same clothes in the Thandi restaurant video at 6:12 pm. 

He could have planned the murder, and arranged for someone to use the alley door, which he would unlock once the secretary left.

That person could have dressed in coveralls and could have had a change of shoes etc.  He would have left by the alley door and walked off unnoticed. 

Dennis shortly appears in a surveillance video by chance or design, looking perfectly coiffed and clear of blood stains.

Certainly plausible.  I don't believe some kind of a conspiracy has ever been whispered.   Although how long would blood spatter take to fully dry on fabric on a hot day in July?  My guess is between 5 - 10 minutes.  I don't believe the resolution of the camera is sufficient enough to pick up any dried stains and from that distance. It could be, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 19, 2015, 07:37:40 PM
The angle of the camera at the restaurant does not face the street.  It is angled onto its' sidewalk.  So naturally there would not be a record of him leaving Dick's office.

I strongly believe that the back door was left unlocked and partially opened by Dick himself, to air the hallway and bathroom area.  The air conditioner would make some difference in office only.

I am very familiar with that type of a/c, and the range of it is limited to perhaps Dick's office.

Secretary said she locked the back door, but who is to say that Dick left it locked?
Dick might have been murdered well after Dennis was seen on camera.

Or, who is to say that the accused did not unlock that back door himself, before leaving the bldg with the intention to return to Dick's by way of back door? Dick was hard of hearing, so he would not hear the accused going to the back door and unlock it.

Here's the thing though. The accused would have to know that Dick would be working into the evening hours before hand.

jb




Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 19, 2015, 07:54:37 PM
That 15 second video clearly shows Dennis walking directly towards his fathers office at 6:12, after the time we know he met his father. Am I the only one who finds that highly suggestive? He has the shopping bag, perhaps with the log book now in it, and is walking directly towards the front door of the building housing his father's office.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 19, 2015, 07:59:41 PM

My point is that I can't fathom Dennis killing Dick between 5:45 when the secretary left them alone, and before 6:12 when he is seen on the video on Cantebury.

The thumping noises most certainly pinpoint the time of the attack.  But even if they were heard within this time frame--I can't see how Dennis could not have been covered in blood, nor transfer any blood to his car if he was the one who wielded the weapon. 

If Dennis came back to murder Dick, then that is a different story.  It is noteworthy though, that Dick did not answer messages from his mistress at 6:30 and it appears that he did not use the computer either.  Although this doesn't prove that he was dead by then, I think it is noteworthy. 

And I agree BaySailor--it makes sense that Dennis could have stormed out of Dick's office for some reason, and then came back in a rage.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 08:14:21 PM

My point is that I can't fathom Dennis killing Dick between 5:45 when the secretary left them alone, and before 6:12 when he is seen on the video on Cantebury.

The thumping noises most certainly pinpoint the time of the attack.  But even if they were heard within this time frame--I can't see how Dennis could not have been covered in blood, nor transfer any blood to his car if he was the one who wielded the weapon. 

If Dennis came back to murder Dick, then that is a different story.  It is noteworthy though, that Dick did not answer messages from his mistress at 6:30 and it appears that he did not use the computer either.  Although this doesn't prove that he was dead by then, I think it is noteworthy. 

And I agree BaySailor--it makes sense that Dennis could have stormed out of Dick's office for some reason, and then came back in a rage.

I disagree.  The perp could easily, easily pull RO's jacket up over his head and start hitting him. What then?  You see it all the time in hockey fights.  The victim is blinded, wouldn't know what initially hit him and the perp would be shielded from the spatter. Also and again, how long does it take blood to dry on a hot day and in a dry climate?   Here's sort of an example of the clothes over the head tactic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 19, 2015, 08:54:48 PM

My point is that I can't fathom Dennis killing Dick between 5:45 when the secretary left them alone, and before 6:12 when he is seen on the video on Cantebury.

The thumping noises most certainly pinpoint the time of the attack.  But even if they were heard within this time frame--I can't see how Dennis could not have been covered in blood, nor transfer any blood to his car if he was the one who wielded the weapon. 

If Dennis came back to murder Dick, then that is a different story.  It is noteworthy though, that Dick did not answer messages from his mistress at 6:30 and it appears that he did not use the computer either.  Although this doesn't prove that he was dead by then, I think it is noteworthy. 

And I agree BaySailor--it makes sense that Dennis could have stormed out of Dick's office for some reason, and then came back in a rage.

I disagree.  The perp could easily, easily pull RO's jacket up over his head and start hitting him. What then?  You see it all the time in hockey fights.  The victim is blinded, wouldn't know what initially hit him and the perp would be shielded from the spatter. Also and again, how long does it take blood to dry on a hot day and in a dry climate?   Here's sort of an example of the clothes over the head tactic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE


Dick was wearing a sweater at the time, and I would think that a blood spatter specialist would have noted if it had been pulled over his head while he was hit.  It is possibly, but I haven't heard any evidence of it.
As far as the length of time it would take blood to dry on a hot day, the only mention that I have seen relates to the lack of blood transfer in Dennis's car:

"He grilled Wentzell about the absence of blood transfer found in Dennis Oland's Volkswagen Golf, arguing if Richard Oland's killer had gotten into that car shortly after the slaying, there would be an "excellent chance" of blood being in the car.

"The probability is yes, there would be blood transfer," said Wentzell."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-trial-1.3277845
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 19, 2015, 09:19:06 PM

My point is that I can't fathom Dennis killing Dick between 5:45 when the secretary left them alone, and before 6:12 when he is seen on the video on Cantebury.

The thumping noises most certainly pinpoint the time of the attack.  But even if they were heard within this time frame--I can't see how Dennis could not have been covered in blood, nor transfer any blood to his car if he was the one who wielded the weapon. 

If Dennis came back to murder Dick, then that is a different story.  It is noteworthy though, that Dick did not answer messages from his mistress at 6:30 and it appears that he did not use the computer either.  Although this doesn't prove that he was dead by then, I think it is noteworthy. 

And I agree BaySailor--it makes sense that Dennis could have stormed out of Dick's office for some reason, and then came back in a rage.

I disagree.  The perp could easily, easily pull RO's jacket up over his head and start hitting him. What then?  You see it all the time in hockey fights.  The victim is blinded, wouldn't know what initially hit him and the perp would be shielded from the spatter. Also and again, how long does it take blood to dry on a hot day and in a dry climate?   Here's sort of an example of the clothes over the head tactic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZGDAVMaaE


Dick was wearing a sweater at the time, and I would think that a blood spatter specialist would have noted if it had been pulled over his head while he was hit.  It is possibly, but I haven't heard any evidence of it.
As far as the length of time it would take blood to dry on a hot day, the only mention that I have seen relates to the lack of blood transfer in Dennis's car:

"He grilled Wentzell about the absence of blood transfer found in Dennis Oland's Volkswagen Golf, arguing if Richard Oland's killer had gotten into that car shortly after the slaying, there would be an "excellent chance" of blood being in the car.

"The probability is yes, there would be blood transfer," said Wentzell."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-trial-1.3277845


A sweater would be even easier(re: less rigid) to use as a 'shield', imo.  I have no idea how spatter vs wicking of blood flow would play out in that case and/or be differentiated from in such close quarters but concede that they probably must have analyzed this possibility thoroughly.  'Shortly' after the slaying being key here.  I don't believe blood transfers so well after it's been dried.  Again, I'm guessing 10 minutes or so for the blood to be dry.  The office a/c might have slowed down the process but if the perp had a 5 minute walk to the car, that might accelerate it. Here are some details about the process:

Quote
Bloodstain Drying Times

Bloodstain pattern evidence drying times are affected by a number of environmental and physical factors. Blood volume is the main physical factor affecting the length of time required for the stains to dry. Large volumes of blood will dry more slowly than small volumes of blood when exposed to identical environmental assaults.
 Environmental factors such as temperature, humidity, surface characteristics and airflow will affect the speed at which the bloodstain patterns dry. Warm temperatures will facilitate drying and accelerate the speed at which the blood dries. Cool or very cold temperatures will usually retard bloodstain drying times. Humidity also affects bloodstain drying times. When equal volumes of liquid blood are deposited in environments with contrasting humidities, the blood that is in the high humidity environment will dry more slowly than the blood in the low humidity environment. Drying occurs as the water in the stain evaporates into the surrounding air. In high humidity environments the air is saturated with water, retarding evaporation and increasing the length of time it takes for the stain to dry. The characteristics of the surface the blood is deposited on will affect bloodstain drying times. If the surface is one that protects the blood by limiting the amount of the bloodstain’s surface that is exposed to the environment, drying of the stain will be retarded and result in longer drying times. When the bloodstain is deposited on a surface that maximizes the amount of the stain’s surface exposed to the environment, the drying times will be shortened. Environments that allow a good airflow across the exposed surfaces of the bloodstain decrease the length of time required for the stain to dry.

http://what-when-how.com/forensic-sciences/bloodstain-pattern-analysis/

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 19, 2015, 11:01:38 PM
Will this help with the discussion? Scroll down in this article to view victim's shirt in court exhibit. I don't know what to make of it./jb.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2281563/court-sees-items-of-richard-olands-blood-stained-clothing-at-trial-on-friday/

Re: accused stepping off sidewalk - is it possible he was heading for his car and not the office?
Defense just might suggest something similar? There is no proof as to where he was headed unfortunately.
However, you are probably right - he was heading towards Dick's.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 20, 2015, 12:29:13 AM
Re: accused stepping off sidewalk - is it possible he was heading for his car and not the office?
Defense just might suggest something similar? There is no proof as to where he was headed unfortunately.
However, you are probably right - he was heading towards Dick's.

jb

It is possible JB. He's heading north on Camarthen St. before he steps off the sidewalk, so he is coming from somewhere south of Dick's office. South of here is away from the downtown (and Dennis's office), and the main commercial area of the city, but there are a few restaurants and such on the crossstreet a half block to the south. Not much in the way of stores though. It's possible he parked in front of Dick's office for their appointment, went in for the meeting, then left and ran an errand somewhere south of here before returning to his car, at this point being caught by the cctv timed at 6:12. If the thumps were then heard around 6:15 or 6:20 my spidey senses are gonna' be tingling. It would have to have been a short errand. I also suppose he could have forgotten something at DIck's office and returned to get it, or he might have forgotten where his car was parked and gone past it heading south and had to return. I have done that more than a few times.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 20, 2015, 06:47:14 AM
Will this help with the discussion? Scroll down in this article to view victim's shirt in court exhibit. I don't know what to make of it./jb.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2281563/court-sees-items-of-richard-olands-blood-stained-clothing-at-trial-on-friday/



jb

No, not really and away out of an amateur's league.  However, it does look like the killer came from behind and struck from back to front sending
the blood down toward the front of him.  No big surprise there. I couldn't see a sweater image, although if he did ever use it as a shield I would assume it to be smeared with blood
around the top half and with some kind of punctures commensurate with the weapon used.  I wouldn't expect to much blood on the killer's pants or shoes if he was positioned behind that long back chair though. If the chair was on a swivel like my office hair is, I would expect the blood to spray like a lawn sprinkler around the room and more away than not from the killer.

Edit: as to the video evidence.  I seem to remember in the redacted info released that the 'suspect' or 'person of interest' as they were known at the time was caught driving up or down one particular street on a store camera.  I googled but could not find/verify.  Does anybody remember this bit of info?  Or has time faded my memory.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 20, 2015, 07:59:18 AM
Well, Have faith...I watched a show the other night where a perp broke into a woman's house to rob her....the woman heard him break in, locked herself in the bathroom and called 911.  The responders arrived in four minutes and she was dead and the perp no where to be found.  Granted, he used a gun instead of a weapon of other sorts.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 20, 2015, 09:51:26 AM
Not being present at the trial and just getting bits and pieces of information and not all set out in a sequence of events, it is hard to establish if the right man is on trial. I would like to see a timeline with everything stated as (a), (b), (c), a clear picture of the evidence. I guess it is because I worked in the courts all my life and I always made my mental decision of the person's innocence or guilt. I really believe it is all down to the timeline and when the noise was heard and where the son was at the time of all of this happening. Because those thumps had to be when the murder took place. And there would be a lot of blood on the killer, for sure. But everything is in bits and pieces to me and hard to put it all together, to sort of see the picture of events in one's mind.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 20, 2015, 12:57:33 PM
 I agree with your comments capeheart.  We are missing information due to a trial by blogs. 

 The question on how much blood would have been on the perp seems to be a pesky one, as follows:

 Per the Pathologist:  Reluctantly concedes that it would have been a lot of blood.

Still, given the amount of blood at the crime scene, Gold asked Naseemudin whether Oland's attacker would have been "covered in blood."

"Certainly the weapon. I don't know about the clothing," he replied.

But Gold pointed out that when he asked Naseemuddin during the preliminary inquiry whether it was likely the attacker would have had a substantial amount of blood on him or her, his answer, under oath, was yes.

So Gold puts the question to him again. "I would agree that answer is true," Naseemuddin said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-richard-survived-pathologist-1.3264289)


Per the RCMP bloodstain expert:  Yes there would be blood on him, but can't say how much.  He originally told LE that it would have been "siginifant".

 Gold stressed it was a "brutal, vicious beating," with "hundreds" of blood drops flying 360 degrees around the room and that the victim and "perpetrator or perpetrators" would have been in close proximity.

"The blood stain evidence would support that," said Wentzell, as the jury was shown more graphic crime scene photos.
ns-hi-richard-oland-852

Richard Oland, 69, was found dead in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. (Canadian Yachting Association)

When Gold suggested the killer would have had "dozens and dozens" of spatter stains on him or her, however, Wentzell replied that it's "reasonable there would be some," but he could not say how much.

Gold said the Saint John Police Force obtained a search warrant for Dennis Oland's home by swearing that "significant" blood spatter would be found on the killer's clothes. That officer's sworn affidavit was based on information provided by Wentzell, Gold said.

Wentzell said he doesn't recall saying "significant."

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3277845 (http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.3277845)

And:  (link won't copy--see CBC My Region Oct. 19, Bobbi-jean MacKinnon, CBC News)



As per the CBC New Brunswick article linked above, (see also the blog included) it seems evident that Dick was attacked from the front of his desk, while he was sitting in his chair.

 Modified to add another link re Dick sitting at his desk when attacked.  (see blog notes).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-coverage-1.3271917 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-coverage-1.3271917)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 01:17:31 PM
The dna of Richards on jacket raises suspicions, especially on the inside of the sleeve lining.

Defense had earlier suggested that Dick had a scalp condition which often bled - and alluded to this being the cause.  However defense at that time said that they would return to the jacket at a later time.

I did note, that when questioning the secretary, no one had asked if Dick's scalp had a break out that day. In fact his scalp condition was never given a medical term.

So many loose ends, defense jumping back and forth - perhaps on purpose - never going into finer details. 

In my opinion, the prosecution at least up until now is rather weak.  Appears to be going with the flow right from the very beginning.

I think the prosecution is saving the timeline, and generally their best for last.

As it stands now, it is difficult to  buy into "Dick's scalp condition" blood - transfer onto Dennis jacket, especially after seeing the lining of the jacket on exhibit.

jb





Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 20, 2015, 01:20:41 PM

As it stands now, it is difficult to  buy into "Dick's scalp condition" blood - transfer onto Dennis jacket, especially after seeing the lining of the jacket on exhibit.

jb

And the medical examiner did say he saw no lesions as such.

But....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-andrew-shaw-1.3279873

If we believe those thumps were the killing, doesn't this now exonerate Dennis? Yet they still charged him, so there must still be more to the story.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 20, 2015, 01:43:27 PM
Quote

If we believe those thumps were the killing, doesn't this now exonerate Dennis? Yet they still charged him, so there must still be more to the story.

No. The print shop witness said that the thumps were heard sometime between 6-8pm(stated today under examination by the Crown). It's all pretty vague.  Agreed  though, that if the thumps were heard & definitively pinpointed to the Far End Office above between 7:30-8:00pm - the defendant's chance for exoneration improves greatly.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 20, 2015, 02:05:27 PM
Quote

If we believe those thumps were the killing, doesn't this now exonerate Dennis? Yet they still charged him, so there must still be more to the story.

No. The print shop witness said that the thumps were heard sometime between 6-8pm(stated today under examination by the Crown). It's all pretty vague.  Agreed  though, that if the thumps were heard & definitively pinpointed to the Far End Office above between 7:30-8:00pm - the defendant's chance for exoneration improves greatly.

Right, he definitely did not want to be pinned down on the time.

And per your link, (blog) Dennis apparently writes with his left hand and keys pinpads with his right. I wish I was that ambidextrous. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 20, 2015, 02:10:24 PM
I agree the timeline is still vague but if the print shop witness arrived around six and Dennis is seen on the restaurant's security tape at 6:12, I find it very difficult to believe the "thumping " sounds were heard during that short window of time.  Since Dennis is next seen on the market's security tape at 7:38, it's really beginning to appear that he was at least not present in Mr. Oland's office while the killing was happening.   Together with all the other "facts" as we presently know them, I fail to see, at least at this point, how a conviction can be reasonably obtained and am seriously beginning to wonder why the case was ever taken to trial in the first place.  But perhaps BaySailor is quite correct and there may yet be more to the story than we are aware.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 02:11:55 PM
Please provide the link to the blog.  For some reason, I cannot locate it today.

Thanks.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 02:24:09 PM
I agree the timeline is still vague but if the print shop witness arrived around six and Dennis is seen on the restaurant's security tape at 6:12, I find it very difficult to believe the "thumping " sounds were heard during that short window of time.  Since Dennis is next seen on the market's security tape at 7:38, it's really beginning to appear that he was at least not present in Mr. Oland's office while the killing was happening.   Together with all the other "facts" as we presently know them, I fail to see, at least at this point, how a conviction can be reasonably obtained and am seriously beginning to wonder why the case was ever taken to trial in the first place.  But perhaps BaySailor is quite correct and there may yet be more to the story than we are aware.

I agree with RubyRose. (leaving the jacket out of the equation). At what time was the location of Dicks cell phone pinged?  This will be good to know.

Very little to convict on at the moment.  Just the dna on the jacket so far.  No witnesses seeing him returning to office.  Just thumps and bumps -

Printing shops can be noisy places - perhaps Defense may bring that up.

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 20, 2015, 02:38:54 PM
 I believe the blog is included in this link, jellybean.  (I find these things seem to have a way of moving around and sometines not easy to find again).  Anyway, I hope it's what you are looking for.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-andrew-shaw-1.3279873
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 20, 2015, 02:39:19 PM
I agree the timeline is still vague but if the print shop witness arrived around six and Dennis is seen on the restaurant's security tape at 6:12, I find it very difficult to believe the "thumping " sounds were heard during that short window of time.  Since Dennis is next seen on the market's security tape at 7:38, it's really beginning to appear that he was at least not present in Mr. Oland's office while the killing was happening.   Together with all the other "facts" as we presently know them, I fail to see, at least at this point, how a conviction can be reasonably obtained and am seriously beginning to wonder why the case was ever taken to trial in the first place.  But perhaps BaySailor is quite correct and there may yet be more to the story than we are aware.

Wow, there's another approximate 2 months of witnesses/evidence to come. With all the evidence and the clearances needed for it to even go to trial in NB - I can at least see how it got this far. Have no idea as to the outcome and won't hazard a guess until December at the very earliest.  Far more fascinating than the OJ Simpson Trial, so far.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 20, 2015, 03:12:37 PM
I would like to know the times of Dennis' cell phone pings, too. Or why take and carry the red bag from his car to the end of the wharf just to see if his kids were still swimming. Why not leave the bag in the car? Many more witnesses to come but the timeline from today's witness is not definitive. Between 6 and 8 pm.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 04:24:02 PM
Thanks RubyRose for the link.  Very kind of you.  I sure agree with posters, it is the Canadian version of the OJ trial.

I am shocked that our Canadian court system would be so open and transparent (god I hate that term - it is so overused and very often so untrue), but in this case it is open and transparent, including exhibits.

This NB trial via social media, might set a precedent for others to come.

I certainly hope so.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 04:52:48 PM
I am copying and pasting article - easier to refer to as to time of thumps, etc.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-andrew-shaw-1.3279873

Dennis Oland told police his father wasn't 'easiest guy' to get along with
They didn't have a close relationship, murder trial hears in videotaped statement
By Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon, CBC News Posted: Oct 20, 2015 1:13 PM AT Last Updated: Oct 20, 2015 5:22 PM AT

Dennis Oland told Saint John police his father, Richard Oland, was not "the easiest guy in the world to get along with," and that they didn't have a close relationship.

He made the statements on July 7, 2011 — the day his father's bludgeoned body was discovered in his uptown investment firm office.

Live blog: Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial Oct. 20
On mobile? Get live coverage here
Part of the nearly 2.5-hour videotaped statement was played for the jury at Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial on Tuesday.

Dennis Oland, 47, who was the last known person to see his father alive during a meeting at his Canterbury Street office the night before, has pleaded not guilty in his death

onst. Stephen Davidson interviewed Oland, starting at 6:01 p.m. At that time, Oland was considered "a witness, somebody to provide information" that might assist police with the investigation, Davidson testified.

Oland told Davidson his father was "never violent," or "totally completely unreasonable." But, it was "a lot easier to keep your distance because it just kept the peace," he said.

Richard Oland could say and do things that "could be hurtful," he said.

The affair his father was having was also "a family concern," he told police.

Witness heard 'thumping' sounds coming from office

Earlier on Tuesday, the court also heard from a man who believes he heard Richard Oland being killed.

Anthony Shaw said he was helping his friend John Ainsworth with a computer project at Printing Plus the night of July 6, 2011, when they heard "loud and unusual noises" coming from Richard Oland's office upstairs.

​"I heard a loud crash and then many thumping sounds thereafter," said Shaw.

Oland's body was found in his office the next morning, lying face down in a large pool of blood.

The 69-year-old prominent businessman had suffered 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands.

Shaw told the court he believes the noises occurred before 8 p.m., when a man came into Printing Plus to have his resume faxed — sometime around 7:30 p.m., or 7:45 p.m.

Earlier in the trial, the jury was shown a time stamped security video of Dennis Oland shopping at Cochran's Country Market at 7:38 p.m.

Cochran's is located in Rothesay, which is at least a 15-minute drive away from Richard Oland's Far End Corporation office at 52 Canterbury St., according to Google Maps.

Media placeholderPlay Media
RAW: Dennis Oland at Cochran's4:14

"You felt from the beginning [Richard Oland's death] was related to the noise you heard the night before?" asked defence lawyer Gary Miller.

"Yes. It made sense," replied Shaw.

In a videotaped statement to police on July 8, 2011, Shaw had said: "Now that we think about it, something was going on there out of the ordinary," Miller said, reading aloud from a transcript of that statement.

Shaw said he did not hear any voices arguing, yelling or screaming, just the "loud crash" and then "maybe eight or 10 repeated sounds."

"It was swift. Quick," he said, estimating the noise only lasted about 10 to 15 seconds.

Shaw said he and Ainsworth stopped working, "looked at each other, waited, it [the noise] passed, and continued" working.

Lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot asked Shaw why he didn't do anything when he heard the noises. "I'm not blaming you sir," he said.

Shaw said he owns a similar brick building and when he investigated a noise complaint from a tenant one day, he found another tenant putting together furniture. He figured it was something similar — someone "maybe arranging furniture, hanging a picture," he said.

Those were the only noises he heard from the time he arrived at Printing Plus, around 6 p.m., until he and Ainsworth left together around 9 p.m.

He had never heard such unusual noises coming from Oland's office before during the numerous other occasions he spent time at Printing Plus, he said.

He didn't notice anything unusual going on outside in front of the building during several cigarette breaks he took on the night in question either, he added.

   
   
   
   
   
   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 20, 2015, 06:27:34 PM
quote blueriver:

"I would like to know the times of Dennis' cell phone pings, too. Or why take and carry the red bag from his car to the end of the wharf just to see if his kids were still swimming. Why not leave the bag in the car? Many more witnesses to come but the timeline from today's witness is not definitive. Between 6 and 8 pm."


If Dennis is innocent, he sure had a strange way of acting that made him look guilty.  As you have noted, taking the grocery bag from his car and carrying it to the end of the wharf is one example.  Another example that I found odd, is Dennis going out to do some "gardening" at 9:00 pm on the night of the murder.  The sun sets at 9:21 in New Brunswick, so he would soon be gardening in the dark.  No wonder police executed a nine hour search of his property and dug up parts of his lawn.

I'm sure there are more examples to justify other searches and warrants, and LE's mind set.  This is the danger of circumstantial evidence.  He may have done odd things that made him look guilty, but there could be a plausible explanation for them.  For example, he put something from the ground in the red bag at the the wharf.  He may have been anticipating collecting stones or rocks or shells and brought the bag with him for this purpose.

Consider the damage done if he actually made an innocent mistake on what jacket he wore to meet his dad.  Of course this does not explain the DNA evidence found on it.

I'm not saying that he is innocent or guilty.  I have my own opinion, but I am starting to question how his odd actions have been interpreted to denote guilt, without hearing his explanation of his behaviour.  Maybe they aren't so odd.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 07:40:45 PM
quote Have Faith:

Quote
If Dennis is innocent, he sure had a strange way of acting that made him look guilty.  As you have noted, taking the grocery bag from his car and carrying it to the end of the wharf is one example. Another example that I found odd, is Dennis going out to do some "gardening" at 9:00 pm on the night of the murder.  The sun sets at 9:21 in New Brunswick, so he would soon be gardening in the dark.  No wonder police executed a nine hour search of his property and dug up parts of his lawn.

Where did you find that?  I missed out on this bit of very worthy news.




jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 20, 2015, 07:56:46 PM
That 15 second video clearly shows Dennis walking directly towards his fathers office at 6:12, after the time we know he met his father. Am I the only one who finds that highly suggestive? He has the shopping bag, perhaps with the log book now in it, and is walking directly towards the front door of the building housing his father's office.   

This is where he might have returned.  short video of him crossing the street, but I swear he had something white sticking out of that bag, and it slipped down into the bag as he stepped from the sidewalk onto the road.

Could someone please look at the video very carefully and comment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-QgVuwM1w

Check out time at 01 and 02

Thanks
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 20, 2015, 09:21:35 PM
Yes, I see a flash of white but it could just be 'light play' caused by the noise and camera aliasing.  To be honest, I can't be sure that it is even him. I know it probably is and based on the sequence of events presented to date but the video is just not that good enough to be 100% certain about anything.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 20, 2015, 09:34:00 PM
quote Have Faith:

Quote
If Dennis is innocent, he sure had a strange way of acting that made him look guilty.  As you have noted, taking the grocery bag from his car and carrying it to the end of the wharf is one example. Another example that I found odd, is Dennis going out to do some "gardening" at 9:00 pm on the night of the murder.  The sun sets at 9:21 in New Brunswick, so he would soon be gardening in the dark.  No wonder police executed a nine hour search of his property and dug up parts of his lawn.

Where did you find that?  I missed out on this bit of very worthy news.




jb

I can't find the article.  It may have been in the article that you didn't link on September 20 because it contained blogs.  It was on this day that I made mention in my post that Dennis was seen in a video at the market.  I remember that he told LE that he went to a pharmacy and to the market to buy bananas.  He went home and watched TV with his wife, and at 9:00 pm he went outside to do gardening.   Honest--I read that somewhere.   :P
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 20, 2015, 09:40:31 PM
Regarding LE digging up Dennis's lawn:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/07/15/saint_john_police_search_for_clues_into_the_murder_of_richard_oland.html (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/07/15/saint_john_police_search_for_clues_into_the_murder_of_richard_oland.html)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 20, 2015, 10:24:11 PM
That 15 second video clearly shows Dennis walking directly towards his fathers office at 6:12, after the time we know he met his father. Am I the only one who finds that highly suggestive? He has the shopping bag, perhaps with the log book now in it, and is walking directly towards the front door of the building housing his father's office.   

This is where he might have returned.  short video of him crossing the street, but I swear he had something white sticking out of that bag, and it slipped down into the bag as he stepped from the sidewalk onto the road.

Could someone please look at the video very carefully and comment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-QgVuwM1w

















Check out time at 01 and 02

Thanks


 I see something white sticking out of the bag also.  There is no doubt in my opinion that this is Dennis, especially after comparing the man in this video with the Kent security video of Dennis.  (see link below)

The bag that he is carrying has a pattern on the side which looks similar to the bag shown in the trunk of Dennis`s car.  A local could confirm if this is the known red reusable grocery bags that they use.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-mark-smith-1.3260262 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-mark-smith-1.3260262)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 21, 2015, 12:52:09 AM
Is this scenario possible?:  Dick was sitting in his chair at his desk.  Dennis hit him and knocked him right out of his chair, and did get blood up his sleeve and a few spots on his jacket,  from the first hit.  He could have put a plastic bag over Dick's head and continued to hit him through the bag.  Then removed the bag and put it in his red grocery bag to tAke with him, and dispose of.

I also wonder why Dennis would take this red grocery bag to the wharf if he was just checking to see if his kids were swimming down there.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 21, 2015, 01:54:18 AM


The bag that he is carrying has a pattern on the side which looks similar to the bag shown in the trunk of Dennis`s car.  A local could confirm if this is the known red reusable grocery bags that they use.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-mark-smith-1.3260262 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-mark-smith-1.3260262)

The bag from his car is a Sobey's bag. The bag in the Thandi's video looks like the same bag to me, but that ain't expert confirmation!
As an aside, I must have 10 reusable grocery bags, 3 of one type, 2 of another, a couple from Sobey's, and so on. If one goes missing, I probably have an identical one or two somewhere, possibly in the trunk.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 21, 2015, 07:30:59 AM
Yes, if people are inclined to use the re-usable bags, they normally have more than one of the same kind.

I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the video....I do see the white, but not sure if it's just a glare from the sun or what?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 09:16:34 AM
I just read the tweets from the courthouse, will have to go over it again.

First impression:  Father very domineering, impatient and insensitive type. I could say more, but ......

Second impression:  Dennis forgetful type, caught between obeying his father, dreads going, thinks of running home rather than meeting him. Avoid father at all costs, seemed to be the norm. Yet locked in with father through investment account with CIBC, which would help Dennis with his employment for certain.- not to mention the bail out of his home.

Third impression: Dennis statement full of errors.  Not too sure of exactly what he did in regards to going to father's office, times, etc. Concrete lies, or was he really befuddled about having to meet his Dad. (emotional dread, and ingrained fear of father?)
Fear of hurtful comments, etc., which might ensue, could make one absent minded and not pay attention as to what they were doing. Mind on whether he should step into Dad's office or run off and go home - to peace and security.  (Just keeping an open mind, at this point)
 
Very confident as to what he did with time spent when he went with wife to store, and evening spent at home.

*Why did he not ask the big questions right away?  What happened?   Is my father alright? Why am I here?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 21, 2015, 09:39:36 AM
I just read some of the live feeds. Don't know what to make of it.  The cop seems to indicate that there were security cameras rolling in
the office building due to recent break-ins - which, if so, we have yet to see.  The relationship seems to be what only can be described as more Gordon Gekko / son than normal Father/son. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 21, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
The cop seems to indicate that there were security cameras rolling in
the office building due to recent break-ins - which, if so, we have yet to see. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the 'we saw you on tape, might as well confess' ploy?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 21, 2015, 10:55:32 AM
The cop seems to indicate that there were security cameras rolling in
the office building due to recent break-ins - which, if so, we have yet to see. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the 'we saw you on tape, might as well confess' ploy?
  That's quite possible.
It's pretty black & white though, either they were installed or not and Dennis being a director
of the business should have known if they were present or not.  The raison d'etre and tone
of the interview seemed to change in a hurry. Couldn't Dennis have asked to call his lawyer
once the questions started to become more pointed? I think I would have under the conditions,
stress & trauma of the past day or so. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 10:59:46 AM
Detective very clever, asked if he could remove Dennis' phone so there are no distractions, stays out for a length of time, then returns and asks Dennis to low power phone.
Dennis has to be shown how to do it.

I think the cops copied the memory from text messages etc, while dennis sat in office.
Cops wondered if this was Dennis' phone and detective returned and asked Dennis to low power it, as perhaps they suspect that it may not be his.  Upon leaving cop says about phones "They are all different".[ Just surmised - would not be surprised. ::) ]

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 21, 2015, 11:14:50 AM
[It's pretty black & white though, either they were installed or not and Dennis being a director
of the business should have known if they were present or not.  The raison d'etre and tone
of the interview seemed to change in a hurry. Couldn't Dennis have asked to call his lawyer
once the questions started to become more pointed? I think I would have under the conditions,
stress & trauma of the past day or so.

Dennis was a director at Far End but had no involvement in the business in those days, according to McFadden, just appointed for estate planning I would think.   

He certainly could have asked for a lawyer at any point, but chose not to. An interesting decision, with many different rationales possible for it. possible. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 11:25:47 AM
Dennis very boyish like. He liked the detective.Didn't realize he was heading towards being a suspect.  I don't think it ever occurred to him to call a lawyer. If he did, he probably thought that he could not afford one.

See the tricks that detectives can play on a suspect.  There were no cameras in the bldg.

I have not seen second tape though.  Is it up?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 21, 2015, 12:15:50 PM
I can only find the first tape of the interview. Dennis seems calm as opposed to emotional - no heavy sighing or head in hands type of despair at losing his father. Even laughs some. He appears calm as I said and I would think he would be scared youknowwhatless if he had just violently killed his father and was being interviewed by police. He doesn't speak in the past tense of his father other than his past history with him. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 21, 2015, 01:53:17 PM
The cop seems to indicate that there were security cameras rolling in
the office building due to recent break-ins - which, if so, we have yet to see. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the 'we saw you on tape, might as well confess' ploy?


BINGO BaySailor!

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
@BJMCBC
Veniot asks about what video cameras Davidson was telling Dennis about. Says there were no cameras at 52 Canterbury St.


blogs at http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3281432 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3281432)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 21, 2015, 02:22:45 PM
Okay, fair enough but LE must have had two 'scripts' ready and prepared for if/when the witness crossed the line (in their estimation) from being just a witness to a prime suspect.  Not saying anything premeditated or that they were 'loaded for bear' from the get go - just prepared and with some curveballs should things take a sudden turn.  I think we've all been there before be it on the playground, at home, or at the office where questions change from being matter of fact and friendly towards more accusatory in nature.  There's a definite shift in tone/demeanor.  The case is getting increasingly more interesting .....
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 21, 2015, 02:55:38 PM
Havefaith, as you have discussed related to the blood that would have been at the crime scene and surely would have been splattered on the killer. Now unless this was a premeditated murder, which the killer may have worn some kind of a covering over his clothing to make sure he did not have any blood on him. Then he could have destroyed this item, along with the murder weapon, which could have been disposed almost anywhere. Because the accused was supposedly down by the water or the ocean afterwards, which seems to be what they are indicating, all articles could have been just ditched in the ocean waters. But apparently nobody had seen him dispose of anything. The timeline is the most crucial thing in this case and the DNA evidence. If there is any doubt, it will possibly be that he will be found not guilty. :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 03:39:17 PM
I agree with Capeheart's last sentence.  So far, not a slam dunk.  Only one juror needs to have doubt.

I wonder about some comments Dennis made during interview.  He talked about his cousin who was into family history as well, and Dennis said that his cousin was really good on the internet and that he, Dennis would read the info and then have to write it all down for himself.

Didn't know how to print?  Yet, police removed a lot of electronic equipment. If I recall, it was previously stated that Dennis's equipment would hold a massive amount of data and he had USB's.

He may be very computer and internet savy.
One would think he would have to be in his line of work.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 21, 2015, 05:57:41 PM
cape heart, in my Reply #538, I came out with another possible scenario for (lack of?) blood spatter. 
It is possible, I think...
I am not saying guilty...just another spin on what may have happened.

Also...if Dick's mistress called him promptly at 6:30 every evening...if he didn't answer that night at 6:30... Then he'd already been attacked...no?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 21, 2015, 06:17:33 PM

...if Dick's mistress called him promptly at 6:30 every evening...if he didn't answer that night at 6:30... Then he'd already been attacked...no?

That is my thought too. The defense will certainly reiterate the print shop workers initial comments around the timing of the' thumps' to counter that. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 07:21:56 PM
Snowhite - The defense was pushing for 8 pm. 

I didn't know this, but during interview, Dennis also wears a hearing aid.

What are thoughts about this interview.  Was there anything that pointed towards him?

I myself, could not find much of anything that would lead me to believe that he  did it.

jb



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 21, 2015, 08:25:03 PM
Dennis's police interview video and his written statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699)

Excerpts from above link.

Dennis Oland became a suspect in Richard Oland's murder about two and a half hours into a videotaped statement he gave to Saint John police on July 7, 2011 — the same day his father's bludgeoned body was discovered in his office.

The accused was initially considered a witness and voluntarily went to police headquarters with other family members to provide any information that might assist with the investigation.

    Live blog: Dennis Oland's second-degree murder trial: Oct. 21
    On mobile? Get live coverage here

But by 8:22 p.m., he was a suspect in the homicide and informed that search warrants would be executed against him, according to an agreed statement of facts submitted at his second-degree murder trial on Wednesday.
Dennis Oland, Oct. 21, 2015

Dennis Oland, 47, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder in the 2011 death of his father, prominent businessman, Richard Oland. (CBC)

Lead Crown prosecutor P.J. Veniot did not ask Const. Stephen Davidson on Wednesday why Oland was deemed a a suspect after he said he had no reason to want his father dead and suggested it might have been a crackhead looking for money or his mistress who killed him.

Davidson left him alone for a few minutes and Oland, 47, mumbled the events to himself quietly again, using his finger to retrace his route on the table in front of him.

"So I went up the driveway … and sat there … and then I parked … there, there … No … I went in … and sat there  … I drove in and I parked … then I left … went around and then I stopped there … and then I went in … So I …  I came in and I parked there … then … I left there and I went around and I stopped there … Then where did I go after that?"

Davidson came back in at 8:25 p.m. and the interview ended. Oland left the police station around 11 p.m. The court has not heard what transpired in between.


Account of July 6 events

Oland provided Davidson with a two-page handwritten account of the events of July 6, 2011, which was submitted into evidence on Wednesday.

He went into more detail during the interview with Davidson, saying he went to his father's office, Far End Corporation, at 52 Canterbury St., twice that night.

The first time was around 5:15 p.m., after he finished work at CIBC Wood Gundy, where he was an investment advisor. He said he wanted to show his father a will from 1825 that seemed to indicate an illegitimate child in the family line. Genealogy was a common interest, he said.

Dennis Oland wearing brown jacket
Dennis Oland told police he was wearing a navy blazer when he went to visit his father on July 6, 2011, but video surveillance from Brunswick House shows he was wearing a brown sports jacket that day. (Court exhibit)

Oland drove from his office at Brunswick House, to the parking lot at the corner of Princess Street, climbed the stairs to his father's second-floor office, but realized he had forgotten some other "stuff" at his own office.

He said he might have used the bathroom in the foyer area before he went back to his car and drove the wrong way onto a one-way street.

"I went to go back to my office, but I don't have the key," he said, referring to the pass cards required to operate the elevator after hours.

Asked why he went up the one-way street when his office was in the other direction, Oland said he was actually considering three options — going back to his office to get the additional documents, going home, or going back to his father's office with the documents he had.

He ended up going back to his father's office around 5:30 p.m., and parked along Canterbury Street this time. His father's secretary went home for the day a few minutes later, he and his father discussed the genealogy material, then he left around 6:30 p.m., he said.

His father was sitting at his desk at the time, possibly reading something, he said. "As far as the final words …like, OK great, goodbye, I mean, I don't … it might have been me saying, ah … yeah, got to go, time for me to go, you know, OK great."

Just as he was leaving, Oland said his wife, Lisa, called him, saying she was sick and wondering where "the hell" he was.

So he headed home to Rothesay. But on the way, he said he decided to stop at Renforth Wharf to see if his children were there swimming — even though he was already running late and his wife was anxious for him to get home.

When he realized his children weren't at the wharf, he said he drove home, he and his wife went to Cochran's Country Market, back home for dinner, and watched part of a movie.

Then he went to the Irving to get some milk, put their hens away, did a bit of gardening and went to bed shortly after 11 p.m.



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 09:16:57 PM
Oh, OH - he said he left dicks office at 6:30, seen outside restaurant at 6:12.

He was really confused as to where he parked etc.





Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 21, 2015, 09:38:35 PM
Oh, OH - he said he left dicks office at 6:30, seen outside restaurant at 6:12.

He was really confused as to where he parked etc.







Yes, but he wasn't even sure what time he came back to the office when he saw Maureen (secretary). 

After watching this interview--I think that there is a good chance that Dennis is innocent. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 09:57:14 PM
I meant oh, oh he was wrong when he left office. Detective turned him into a suspect because he couldn't remember where he had parked, and the sequence of his parking.

It doesn't take much, detectives look at every little thing.

I would have to see more evidence than that to find him guilty.

To be honest, I've experienced a   zone out a few times, and went past my destination.

I can well picture him forgetting to bring some info on family history and wondering if he should go back and get it before presenting it to his father.  Especially Dick.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 21, 2015, 10:00:22 PM
I meant oh, oh he was wrong when he left office. Detective turned him into a suspect because he couldn't remember where he had parked, and the sequence of his parking.

It doesn't take much, detectives look at every little thing.

I would have to see more evidence than that to find him guilty.

To be honest, I've experienced a   zone out a few times, and went past my destination.

I can well picture him forgetting to bring some info on family history and wondering if he should go back and get it before presenting it to his father.  Especially Dick.

jb


You took the words right out of my mouth jb. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 21, 2015, 10:08:35 PM
I genuinely believed him ( he could not remember) - the clincher when he was trying to remember by tracing route with finger on table.

That would definitely be me - if it was "one of those days" Stuff happens when I don't pay attention. lol

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 21, 2015, 10:13:45 PM
And when he drives somewhere and doesn't remember how he got there---that's ME!  lol
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 21, 2015, 11:57:13 PM
Here we have the answer to my question as to whether Dennis is left handed.

After having watched the interview if is very apparent that Dennis is left handed. He uses his left hand when asked to write a statement for the investigator.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 12:05:32 AM
Here we have the answer to my question as to whether Dennis is left handed.

After having watched the interview if is very apparent that Dennis is left handed. He uses his left hand when asked to write a statement for the investigator.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699

Yes indeed, I caught that too!


Quote

If we believe those thumps were the killing, doesn't this now exonerate Dennis? Yet they still charged him, so there must still be more to the story.

No. The print shop witness said that the thumps were heard sometime between 6-8pm(stated today under examination by the Crown). It's all pretty vague.  Agreed  though, that if the thumps were heard & definitively pinpointed to the Far End Office above between 7:30-8:00pm - the defendant's chance for exoneration improves greatly.

Right, he definitely did not want to be pinned down on the time.

And per your link, (blog) Dennis apparently writes with his left hand and keys pinpads with his right. I wish I was that ambidextrous.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 22, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Quote
And per your link, (blog) Dennis apparently writes with his left hand and keys pinpads with his right. I wish I was that ambidextrous.

I'm left handed and also key pinpads with my right. Perhaps it isn't all that unusual?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 12:39:00 AM
Perhaps not. Lefties seem to be able to lots of things with their right I could never do with my left. I could run an adding machine with my left hand but other than that it's just along for the ride. And who uses adding machines these days???
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 01:20:09 AM
Waiting for Mistress to take the stand. It will prove to be very interesting. Did Dick always answer her call at 6:30?  Did he always?  Never missed once during the long relationship?
The defense will have fun with that.
They will have to find holes in that statement, in order to push the timeline of Dick's death past 6:30 pm.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 10:22:15 AM
Snowhite - The defense was pushing for 8 pm. 

I didn't know this, but during interview, Dennis also wears a hearing aid.

What are thoughts about this interview.  Was there anything that pointed towards him?

I myself, could not find much of anything that would lead me to believe that he  did it.

jb




I just skimmed through it, but a couple points of interest.  The whole comings & goings & timing of the office visit(s) is very muddled and confusing, especially for something that happened within the past 24hrs.  I was in Saint John, NB in August and can still remember the exact route I took around the city.  However, we are all different and apart from King & Charlotte Street, I do not know the names
of the other streets.  So, in an interview I would definitely need/request a map to point out the route, surprised LE didn't have a map blowup and have him physically trace his route with pen at the start of the interview, and then have him trace it again with pen at the end of the interview.  The Crackhead  theory @ 1:15:09 and one who steals 'electronics' for a fix is a possible scenario, or intended part of a plan/ruse. But those kind of attacks just don't seem to happen in that town, especially on the second floor of a building. I just don't know  Will review it on the weekend again and pay more attention to verbage, body language, and in combination with fluctuations in voice tone/loudness/softness.  Nobody, including the jury, could discern with only one pass of this marathon interview.  Oh, was also a bit surprised at how the witness/suspect quickly detoured into the 'family business' and relationships on his own will and from the get go.  I don't believe this was required by LE, they only wanted the details of the day but then they just let him run on & on and eventually started to build on it. He seemed to have a clear memory of the recent family past, but, again, was uncertain about the sequence of events of the previous evening. 

Edit: Starting at approximately 1:06:30 into the interview there is a potential bombshell .....
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 22, 2015, 11:39:34 AM
I think it is possible he is telling the truth or at least what he believes to be the truth.  Inconsistencies and confusion may simply result from shock and/or grief.

It's unfortunate the gentlemen in the print shop were unable to agree on the timing of the  noise that they heard.  In any event, no matter which way I attempt to work the timeline, does it appear to me that Dennis would have been present in the office at the time the noise was heard.

I  can't make up my mind regarding the presence of the blood on the jacket either.  While the Defence has certainly made a good case to present a reasonable doubt (which is all it has to do really), I don't particularly accept the argument as to how the blood was transferred.  I guess I'd have to say I'm still not totally convinced one way or the other regarding innocence or guilt.  It's possible we will never know the answer for sure.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 22, 2015, 12:25:38 PM
The men in the print shop were initially within several minutes of the time of the thumping, per video police statements.  The video staements should carry more weight imo.

At trial, Ainsworth (building owner) testified the time of thumping was for "certain" between 6:00 and 8:00 pm. (In his July 7th video Police Statement he stated it was about 8:00 pm).  Per the blog below, Ainsworth says at trial that his best guess is 30 to 45 minutes before he sent a fax or email for a walk-in customer.  This document was time stamped at 8:11.  That would put the time between 7:26 and 7:41 pm. 


His friend Walsh, who arrived at his office at 6:00pm puts the time of the thumping at 7:30 or 7:45 pm.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-andrew-shaw-1.3279873 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-trial-andrew-shaw-1.3279873)


Per CBC blogs

-Gold says Const. Stephen Davidson's notes indicate Ainsworth told him on morning of July7/11 that he heard stomping 5-6x on floor at 8pm

-Ainsworth doesn't remember what he said, but expects he probably said "I think it was 8 pm.

-For certainty I would say the noise happens between 6 and 8. My best guess is around 7:45 but absolutely not certain about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3279651
 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3279651)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 22, 2015, 01:22:54 PM
Thank you, Have Faith. 

If the time actually was around 8:00 PM, then I would have to think there is an outside chance Dennis could have been there.  (Not sure what he would have done with the wife and sister, but then I've never read anywhere that they all arrived or left the market in the same car, either).

I'd agree with you that the video statement should probably carry more weight.  After more than four years, memories can grow dim.  Especially, I would think, with something as traumatic as this.  Some individuals might even try to block it out as much as possible.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 02:09:49 PM
quote RubyRose
Quote
(Not sure what he would have done with the wife and sister, but then I've never read anyhere that they all arrived or left the market in the same car, either).[\quote]

Excellent point RubyRose.

At the market, sister (sister, I believe was Richard's) - his aunt?  was already at counter cashing out, then wife arrived, and later Dennis arrived.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 02:19:50 PM
The whole comings & goings & timing of the office visit(s) is very muddled and confusing, especially for something that happened within the past 24hrs.  I was in Saint John, NB in August and can still remember the exact route I took around the city.   He seemed to have a clear memory of the recent family past, but, again, was uncertain about the sequence of events of the previous evening. 

He has lived and worked there most of his life, and the high school he attended is one block down from his fathers office. This street (or the one below it) is the route you take at lunch when you walk to the commercial area from SJHS. Having lived, worked, and studied in the area most of his life he is very familiar with the area; he just couldn't not be.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 02:21:57 PM

At the market, sister (sister, I believe was Richard's) - his aunt?  was already at counter cashing out, then wife arrived, and later Dennis arrived.
jb

I thought he stated they went together after he had arrived home and changed his clothes?

Yes, that is his father's sister, Jane Toward, who also lives in Rothesay, per...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-defence-questions-1.3233093
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 02:30:31 PM

Edit: Starting at approximately 1:06:30 into the interview there is a potential bombshell .....

The "hookie" trade?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 02:46:44 PM

Edit: Starting at approximately 1:06:30 into the interview there is a potential bombshell .....

The hookie trade?


No, listen carefully to what he says about that day.  He either has muddled up what he's learned henceforth with what happened to him on the day before OR something extraordinary happened when he went to visit his father that he didn't disclose.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 22, 2015, 03:29:48 PM
Quote from my earlier post:

Then he went to the Irving to get some milk, put their hens away, did a bit of gardening and went to bed shortly after 11 p.m.


Can somebody tell me what and where the "Irving" is?  I assume that it is a store and not too far from Dennis's home. 

TIA
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 03:36:41 PM
Quote from my earlier post:

Then he went to the Irving to get some milk, put their hens away, did a bit of gardening and went to bed shortly after 11 p.m.


Can somebody tell me what and where the "Irving" is?  I assume that it is a store and not too far from Dennis's home. 

TIA

Yes, it is a busy Irving gas station and convenience store on the corner of the Marr and Old Rothesay Roads, no more than a five minute drive from Dennis's house. It is now the closest convenience store to his house since one on his street closed years ago, and is across the Marr Road from the drug store they visited.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 03:37:29 PM
Snowhite: The only thing that I pick up is the trade - where dennis did exactly the opposite to what his father had requested.

Why don't you just tell us? Where is the bombshell at 1:06:30?
Was the bombshell, a subtle comment - easily missed by the listener?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 03:55:51 PM
With such a mistake on the trade - I would imagine Dick would be furious. No room for mistakes in his mind, and most importantly it was money = and Dick loved money.

If Dick had threatened to remove his business after that error - then Dennis would surely lose his job.  (yes, I know, WG said that Dennis was on a leave of absence when the crime happened)  Dennis said that he worked on hobbies ie: family history at work.  This is an investment firm and one is expected to hustle new accounts.

I would like to know if the computer at Dennis work desk at WG was ever looked at?

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 04:08:50 PM
Snowhite: The only thing that I pick up is the trade - where dennis did exactly the opposite to what his father had requested.

Why don't you just tell us? Where is the bombshell at 1:06:30?
Was the bombshell, a subtle comment - easily missed by the listener?

jb

Yes, very subtle.  He says, 'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'. That's it.  Which, of course, begs the question, what happened to make it not a typical day?  Surely, a brief discussion in genealogy of which they had been working together on for some time
did not make the day so unusual. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 04:11:08 PM

Yes, very subtle.  He says, 'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'. That's it.  Which, of course, begs the question, what happened to make it not a typical day?  Surely, a brief discussion in genealogy of which they had been working together on for some time
did not make the day so unusual.

Gold star to Snowhite. Nice pickup!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 04:16:04 PM
Snowhite: The only thing that I pick up is the trade - where dennis did exactly the opposite to what his father had requested.

jb

I don't believe that was the case. I understand him to be saying the shares to be traded had recently had a stock split, so the issue was around the number of shares to be traded, eg, the # pre-split, or post-split number. For example, if the stock had split 3 for one, and if Dick and Dennis were both unware of this, then the trade would have been for 1/3 of the intended number of shares. Dennis mentions there had been a split in the interview.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 04:17:13 PM
Excellent work Snowhite!! That is why the detective kept on him about did anything unusual happen, is there anything you wish to tell me ....etc.  Giving Dennis the opportunity to confess.

Thanks for explaining about the stock split/very helpful.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 22, 2015, 04:19:09 PM
'Until'.   Hmmm
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 22, 2015, 04:30:58 PM
Yes, I agree about the trade error. 'what he wanted sold, and what actually got sold were different things'. Dick could have become very angry, belittling, demeaning and loud. Then Dennis forgot the book when he went to the office the first time. Or so he says. Also, at one point during the police interview Dennis says in answer to the Detective's question do you know anyone who could have done this or why, Dennis eventually says or includes in his answer very casually - someone who couldn't take it any more (paraphrased here). Imagine having to have a separate phone in your office - a direct line from your father - and having to answer it by the third ring. Dick sounds like a control freak, too.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 04:35:20 PM
The Drywall Hammer:  suggested weapon.

In the interview, Dennis said that he often helped his sister Jackie with work on the farm, as it was quite derelict. He was also negotiating the lease with Dick, as the lease price was very high, and Jackie was on a limited income.

Is it possible that Dennis had a drywall hammer which he used at Jackie's, and kept it in the trunk of his car?

jb
ps I understood that  it was a trade error.  But not to exasperate investors with my ignorance on such things, I will have to now go back and re-listen to his statement, or put it down to "that's how splits work". Trade is a form of gambling, but it does keep the world spinning.
Too complicated for someone such as me.
 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 22, 2015, 04:41:25 PM
re:
Quote
'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'

It may be that Dennis is simply referring to his day being very similar in routine to most other days, but for the fact that he visited his father in his office that evening. Was this normal practice?

I've watched the interview a number of times now and feel that although Dennis appears to be acting fairly calmly there is some amount of fidgeting going on with his hands. I've tried to pay close attention to his body language as well as the way he speaks. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that he went on and on during the interview. I too noticed that he gave a lot of detail when speaking. I wonder if this is his usual way? He also seemed to move around on his chair a bit. This of course, could be due to the stress of the situation or may even be his usual manner.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
re:
Quote
'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'

It may be that Dennis is simply referring to his day being very similar in routine to most other days, but for the fact that he visited his father in his office that evening. Was this normal practice?

I've watched the interview a number of times now and feel that although Dennis appears to be acting fairly calmly there is some amount of fidgeting going on with his hands. I've tried to pay close attention to his body language as well as the way he speaks. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that he went on and on during the interview. I too noticed that he gave a lot of detail when speaking. I wonder if this is his usual way? He also seemed to move around on his chair a bit. This of course, could be due to the stress of the situation or may even be his usual manner.

It's a good point, we don't know if a visit to his father's office would normally raise a green flag day up to a yellow flag day. Clearly he was a bit out of sorts about the visit. Going in to the office, up the stairs, used the bathroom but did not even care to say hello to anybody. Exited the building, got back in his car, drove back towards his office, turned around and came straight back to his father's office.  Then after the meeting, we see him going in the wrong direction, haven forgotten where he parked his car.  I've had similar discombobulated afternoons, but it usually coincides with a somewhat stressful event, good or bad.   I've just noticed a few more potential issues. He doesn't seem to know how to power down an iphone. This may become more & more important as we begin to zero in on the 'ping' and the time of the mistress phone call, and his approximate/estimated location at those times.  I also picked up on this @ 57:13 where he states that he's borrowed a sledge hammer from his father's garage in the past.  A couple of things with that, it clearly associates his father with a heavy tool and it also tells us that he probably knows how to swing a instrument as such. Not all people do.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 05:21:03 PM
I noticed that Dennis had his arms crossed and pressed tightly within to his chest, in a self protecting fashion. He appeared to be looking directly at the detective.

Body language - closed inward -

Voice and what he was saying rather open.

Did not match.

He also said that Dick had a wonderful workshop with everything possible in it.  And if you borrowed something it had to be returned.  Dick always knew if something was missing.

................interesting..........


Snowhite got his post in before mine.  Tools, we both agree upon
I also think that a visit at anytime to his father's office would be stressful, and that it was not a typical day to go there.

He must have left his office befuddled as he forgot his pass key to get back into WG office.
This makes me wonder if  was a command meeting with his Dad. He did say it was an ordinary day until,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!!

However, he had family history to take along with hopes of distracting him from whatever....
just my thoughts.  And he had a log book to pick up for his mother. Might even had brought tool which belonged to Dick.

You know, little boy attempting to please father and distract him from bringing home a bad report card??


jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 22, 2015, 05:39:04 PM
All possibilities regarding the tools and access. Something I don't fully understand is the log book. Could someone advise (seems I read something about the log book located at his mother's although she didn't know it had been returned?). Not sure about this so if someone knows anything about the return of the log book and will post it, it would help. Thanks.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 06:01:54 PM
Oh, & just more thing ..... does anybody find his 'knee injury' a bit untimely & curious? Says he hurt it sailing a week or so before but I've whacked my knee/thigh more than a few times swinging a crowbar/hammer etc. and that's just at a normal and non frantic pace.  It seems to be really bothering him. See from about 1:35:40  ->
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 06:08:47 PM
All possibilities regarding the tools and access. Something I don't fully understand is the log book. Could someone advise (seems I read something about the log book located at his mother's although she didn't know it had been returned?). Not sure about this so if someone knows anything about the return of the log book and will post it, it would help. Thanks.

Yes , he was asked to drop it off at his mothers house, according to the testimony of Adamson and Dennis. She found it lying on a hall table the next morning, so it would seem he dropped it off later that evening or early the next morning unnoticed. It's a 5 minute walk through his backyard to her place, and I have no doubt he and his sisters have keys- it's the home they grew up in.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 06:12:04 PM
Yes, I picked up on the knee injury. Hammer may have glanced off knee, or leaving from the back door...... big step down to alley, according to detective who went out onto the alley.
He could have wrenched it knee that way. 
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 22, 2015, 06:13:52 PM
All possibilities regarding the tools and access. Something I don't fully understand is the log book. Could someone advise (seems I read something about the log book located at his mother's although she didn't know it had been returned?). Not sure about this so if someone knows anything about the return of the log book and will post it, it would help. Thanks.

Yes , he was asked to drop it off at his mothers house, according to the testimony of Adamson and Dennis. She found it lying on a hall table the next morning, so it would seem he dropped it off later that evening or early the next morning unnoticed. It's a 5 minute walk through his backyard to her place, and I have no doubt he and his sisters have keys- it's the home they grew up in.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 22, 2015, 06:15:18 PM
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/investigators-believe-drywall-hammer-may-have-been-used-in-oland-murder-1.2622176

Kevin Bissett, The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:35AM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:57PM EDT
SAINT JOHN, N.B. -- The lead investigator into the murder of Richard Oland says police suspect a drywall hammer or similar instrument was used to kill the Saint John businessman.
The Court of Queen's Bench has heard that Oland was struck more than 40 times in the head and neck with a hammer-type instrument and a blade-like weapon, but Const. Stephen Davidson told the jury Thursday that while the weapon hasn't been found there has been speculation about it.
"There was speculation a drywall hammer or drywall type of instrument was used," he said.

Davidson said police became aware that was the probable type of weapon early in the investigation after the autopsy.
He was testifying at the second-degree murder trial of the victim's son, Dennis Oland, who has pleaded not guilty.
Richard Oland, 69, was found face down in a pool of blood in his Canterbury Street office on July 7, 2011.
During questioning by Crown Prosecutor P.J. Veniot, Davidson said that aside from the crime scene, police searched the home of Dennis Oland in Rothesay and other areas, such as the Renforth Wharf and nearby Bill McGuire Centre, a multi-purpose meeting and banquet facility.
Davidson said a murder weapon hasn't been found and neither were police able to find an iPhone that belonged to Richard Oland.
Davidson has detailed tests that were done with another iPhone, which was used to call a specific telephone at the Saint John police department to determine the cell towers it linked with. Those calls were made from various locations in Saint John, near Dennis Oland's home and from the proximity of different businesses in Rothesay.
On Wednesday, the court was shown video of the police interview with Oland on July 7, 2011, the day his father's body was found.
During the interview, Oland said he had no involvement in his father's death.
The two had met at Richard Oland's office on July 6, 2011, but Dennis Oland told police that he left around 6:30 p.m. and went straight home except for a quick stop at the Renforth Wharf and beach to see if his children were there swimming. They were not, he wrote in a hand-written statement to police on July 7, 2011.
Oland wrote that he and his wife Lisa later went out to buy cold medication and food at Cochran's Market. The court has been shown security video of the stop at Cochran's.
He said they went home to watch a movie and at one point he went to an Irving station to buy milk.
The trial was scheduled to continue on Friday.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 06:23:54 PM
'Until'.   Hmmm

Yeah, that word causes me some major bother. The cops picked up on it to be certain.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 22, 2015, 06:30:41 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to quote and not post.

That is another interesting point re the log book. I didn't hear Dennis tell the Detective about dropping the log book off as part of the evening's activities.

What time did he arrive at his mother's house when the news about his father's death and discovery happen? And he did visit the hardware store around 8 or so that very morning I think. It could be considered a bit strange if he brought it into the house after the news of his father's death.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 06:37:35 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to quote and not post.

That is another interesting point re the log book. I didn't hear Dennis tell the Detective about dropping the log book off as part of the evening's activities.

What time did he arrive at his mother's house when the news about his father's death and discovery happen? And he did visit the hardware store around 8 or so that very morning I think. It could be considered a bit strange if he brought it into the house after the news of his father's death.
Excellent blueriver. No he did not tell the detective about the log book... right on!

About the trip to hdware store at 8:00 a.m.  He should have been dressed for work.... not wearing same shirt from trip to store the nite before.
Perhaps he knew he would not be going into work that day.  Dick's remains were not discovered until later in the a.m.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 07:08:41 PM
The pants he is wearing at Kents appear not to be the same as the ones worn in the cop statement, coffee shop photo, & Thandi's Restaurant clip.  That's just going by color and extrapolating exposure.  I see that he is wearing a blue sports jacket at Kents.  Perhaps he just got confused as to the colors/days but it is also clear that he was in the process of 'dealing' with that brown jacket that he did wear in that it was about to be  shuffled off to the local dry cleaners.  You don't usually send jackets straight off to the dry cleaners after each & every wear, perchloroethylene imposes too much wear & tear on the fibers. On the other hand, it was a hot day and it might have been long over due or particularly soiled.  I'm still wondering if the drycleaners will be called to testify or a statement read.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 07:44:45 PM
You are right.... Dennis was wearing navy jacket, etc... dressed for possible work on the day his father's remains were found.


So far, there is the problem with Dick's blood on jacket.....otherwise .... it is circumstantial - if that!!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 22, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
I don't know if it is a good point or not, Jellybean.  No one seems to know when the log book was dropped off. If he did take it to his mother's that evening, seems peculiar he didn't state that to the detective. If he did return it to his mother's that evening and didn't mention it, it sounds like a dumb move. I don't know if the police searched any other family member's property.

Also meant to thank Baysailor for the information re the log book.

Now I wonder if someone could link me to the coffee shop photo. I looked around but couldn't find it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 08:06:20 PM
Now I wonder if someone could link me to the coffee shop photo. I looked around but couldn't find it. Thanks.

At your service!!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 09:23:32 PM
Dennis lived in a cocoon surrounded by Richard;s influence.  Even his manager at WG was a friend of Dick. - thus his father held control over his employment. A control freak to nth degree.

The multi-millionaires wife and children were rich in family name, but kept penny poor.
How mean, cruel, and demeaning can any father be to his family.

Yes, it is terrible that he died such  a brutal death rather than by old age.
And yes, justice must be served because of it.

It is all so pathetic in such a big way.

At the very least, what kind of a family man he was, is now being exposed by his very son who is charged with his murder.

I wonder what the sailing community and those who wanted repairs done to the Catholic Cathedral thinks of his legacy now?
jb






Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 22, 2015, 09:56:07 PM
I would like to hear what RO's GF has to say about the family and all from her perspective.  There's usually two or more sides to every story.  I thought that Dennis was rather harsh in his assessment of her & for having not even met her before re: in his video statement.  Also, wasn't she due in for a meeting at the office about something, the morning they discovered the body?  If so, what was that all about? So much more to come .....
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 22, 2015, 10:10:19 PM
I wonder what the sailing community and those who wanted repairs done to the Catholic Cathedral thinks of his legacy now?
jb
my comments only...

Both Dennis and Dick are/were lifelong members of the sailing community, and the reaction of folks who knew him varies depending upon whether they liked him or not. The same goes for Dennis. Obviously Dick was a polarizing person so I think it's fair to say most folks had made their mind up before he died. Dick ticked people off at the club with some frequency while Dennis is almost unfailingly polite. If you reference back to Dennis's police interview he mentions how one of Dick's lifelong best friends (and neighbour across the street growing up) ended the friendship when Dick suggested to a lawyer for the McCain family that a McCain heiress was making a mistake by marrying a son of this friend. This bit of unsolicited advice made it's way back to the friend, and the friendship was over. He just rubbed too many people the wrong for many people to have respect for him, so I think his legacy there is as you suspect it might be. On the other hand, people do respect his contribution to the city in some ways, particularly the legacy projects of the Canada Summer Games he managed, such as the pool complex. Even then, his public involvement sometimes raised tensions such as his work with the New Brunswick Museum and helping them to move to a downtown mall location. It was a controversial move at the time.

Dick was a longtime friend of the head of the museum, and it is her son who manages the office where Dennis works. He's 3 or 4 years older than Dennis and also grew up in the Rothesay area.           
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 22, 2015, 10:33:36 PM
Snowhite; It was through the police interview with Dennis that we learned that GF had meeting with Secretary that morning.

In news articles, GF drove down to RO's office to see what was going on as she had not heard fr om RO and saw police cruisers there.  Then she called his home and asked CO - and then she spoke to McFadden who arrived at the office.

CO then got in touch with McFadden. I don't recall if McFadden knew that RO had been murdered.

The police went to one of the Olson family household, and they were all huddled there, and were asked to come down to the station to give a statement.  One would think that they would know that perhaps he was murdered. Yet, it does not appear to be so.

Dennis asked to see his children first (before he went down to give his statement) I recall that part very clearly.

jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 23, 2015, 03:24:49 AM
"Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day".

The word "until" stands out to me as a major slip up. 
  Why didn't Dennis say "I went over to the office, it was a very typical day".....

Wasn't Dick and his mistress planning a trip?

Wasn't the log book found in the back hall of the parents' house, put there sometime in the night?
Not sure why Dennis didn't just give it to his mom next time he saw her.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 23, 2015, 09:20:06 AM
I would like to hear what RO's GF has to say about the family and all from her perspective.  There's usually two or more sides to every story.  I thought that Dennis was rather harsh in his assessment of her & for having not even met her before re: in his video statement.  Also, wasn't she due in for a meeting at the office about something, the morning they discovered the body?  If so, what was that all about? So much more to come .....

I agree, Snowhite.  There are indeed usually two or more sides to any story and we are so far only being provided with one.

I am not really comfortable commenting on the family dynamics as it is something of which I have no personal knowledge and really don't see as being any of my business.  From observation, though, I would have to say that despite Mr. Oland's apparent penny pinching, difficulty in getting along with others, etc, his family did not really appear to be lacking in much (material things, that is - I won't comment on his parenting skills or lack thereof).   In Dennis' case, particularly, it appears he did come through for him in the crunch.  Perhaps Mr. Oland believed that he had always worked hard to achieve his place in life and his children should do the same.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2015, 09:47:44 AM
I would like to hear what RO's GF has to say about the family and all from her perspective.  There's usually two or more sides to every story.  I thought that Dennis was rather harsh in his assessment of her & for having not even met her before re: in his video statement.  Also, wasn't she due in for a meeting at the office about something, the morning they discovered the body?  If so, what was that all about? So much more to come .....

Gosh, who would not have harsh words about a mistress, if it involved their own father.

Naturally, he would hear negative comments made about her from others when telling Dennis, eg from his ex. They would not give glowing approval of her to Dennis.

And even if they did, I would think that he would not think highly of the mistress, whether he met her or not.  She was a problem to his family, and he was concerned about his mother, and had given word to his father's friend to let his Dad know that word was getting around and to ask him to stop.

I did notice that Dennis said that he left it there, he never did follow up.  Probably felt it best not to. So he left it there.

Yes, it will be interesting to hear the GF testimony.  We already know that she told the detective that Richard thought his son was lazy.  So I doubt if she will give glowing reports.


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 23, 2015, 09:50:36 AM
We have many times heard of money being a big problem in some families, greed takes over. Sometimes money is the root of all evil. Maybe when parents have a lot of money, they should put some in trust for the children and let them just receive interest off the funds and not spend the capital. In that way, they always have money coming in. Maybe this man is innocent, we don't know, maybe he didn't kill his father. Although evidence is strong against him. No eye witnesses, no weapon and this all seems quite a mystery since so many people are around at that time of day. Who knows, he may be found Not Guilty.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2015, 12:06:11 PM
Dennis' movements on day of murder may be answered on Monday, via videos put on by defense.
I hope there will be some clarity about his movements, especially the Thandie restaurant.
Defense did show one of Dennis getting into his car when he stepped off the street, but prosecutor felt that it was too grainy to identify him.

Trial hop skip and jumping all over the place up until now... in my opinion.

Jury must be keeping copious notes to keep track.

Copy tweet RobertJones

Miller says there are 28 video segments in total - presumably tracing Dennis Oland's movements before and after visiting his father.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 23, 2015, 12:41:17 PM
Let's hope so, jellybean.  The trial has been all over the place.  Even the CBC reporters have mentioned that on more than one occasion.  They have said it often makes for difficulty in covering it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 23, 2015, 01:18:57 PM
Today's CBC trial blogs:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3285219 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-second-degree-murder-trial-1.3285219)

Det. Davidson replies to defense lawyer that Dennis was deemed a suspect solely based on his interview, 
even though they had no knowledge of the error in the jacket colour at that time. 

The defense made note that even though Dennis was told that he was on video just before being asked what clothes he
wore, he responded with no hesitation.

LE hadn't checked the accuracy of various security cameras re the correct times.  One of the parking lots was an hour behind
and it was the defense team who made them aware of this at the preliminary hearing.  I wonder how this affected LE's time 
line of Dennis's movements.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 23, 2015, 01:46:58 PM

LE hadn't checked the accuracy of various security cameras re the correct times.  One of the parking lots was an hour behind
and it was the defense team who made them aware of this at the preliminary hearing.  I wonder how this affected LE's time 
line of Dennis's movements.

And I wonder how it affects the jury's impression of LE's competence! 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2015, 02:33:24 PM
And don't forget the error in the longitude and latitude in the cell phone pings made by the detective.
If not discovered?....................who knows?

and now,  I am wondering about the end result of the dna testing of the blood on Dennis jacket.
Both he and Dick would share some dna, and I wonder, if after dry cleaning, some of the main markers were destroyed?

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling

However, with any DNA technique, the cautious juror should not convict on genetic fingerprint evidence alone if other factors raise doubt. Contamination with other evidence (secondary transfer) is a key source of incorrect DNA profiles and raising doubts as to whether a sample has been adulterated is a favorite defense technique.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 23, 2015, 05:37:58 PM
I would like to hear what RO's GF has to say about the family and all from her perspective.  There's usually two or more sides to every story.  I thought that Dennis was rather harsh in his assessment of her & for having not even met her before re: in his video statement.  Also, wasn't she due in for a meeting at the office about something, the morning they discovered the body?  If so, what was that all about? So much more to come .....

Gosh, who would not have harsh words about a mistress, if it involved their own father.

Naturally, he would hear negative comments made about her from others when telling Dennis, eg from his ex. They would not give glowing approval of her to Dennis.

And even if they did, I would think that he would not think highly of the mistress, whether he met her or not.  She was a problem to his family, and he was concerned about his mother, and had given word to his father's friend to let his Dad know that word was getting around and to ask him to stop.

I did notice that Dennis said that he left it there, he never did follow up.  Probably felt it best not to. So he left it there.

Yes, it will be interesting to hear the GF testimony.  We already know that she told the detective that Richard thought his son was lazy.  So I doubt if she will give glowing reports.
 

jb


Well, again it takes two to tango.  It sounded from the video statement like RO had no choice but to enter into this relationship. But that may not have been the case. Again, two sides to every story and RO might have been 'shopping around', initiating things, and told her that they were separated etc. Who knows what stories are told?????
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 23, 2015, 05:56:21 PM
Quote
Well, again it takes two to tango.  It sounded from the video statement like RO had no choice but to enter into this relationship. But that may not have been the case. Again, two sides to every story and RO might have been 'shopping around', initiating things, and told her that they were separated etc. Who knows what stories are told?????

Those details were likely only known by the two people involved in the relationship. RO isn't here to tell his side of this story, so we are only going to hear one side. I haven't had time to listen to the video statement yet, however I would have a hard time figuring out how anyone has no choice but to enter into a relationship. From all we've heard it appears that RO was an 'in charge' type of person who would not have been railroaded into anything he did not wish to participate in. I totally agree it takes two to tango.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2015, 08:12:50 PM
I was going back and reading the earlier days of the trial, and came across something curious, and a potential bombshell if this note which DS sent to RO, is one and the same note removed from Dennis' home by law enforcement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-trial-affair-1.3248185

On July 6, Sedlacek asks whether he "found note? - re Our Trip."
He replies promptly: "Have in [office]," but says he has a meeting.

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/

On July 14, one week after the murder, 20 police officers, acting on a warrant, swooped in on Dennis Oland’s home at 58 Gondola Point Road, the same one he’d inherited from his grandfather, the same one his father had saved from the ashes of his divorce. Police spent eight hours combing the house and grounds and left with four large garbage bags, several cardboard boxes and some paper bags, seizing a total of 57 different items: legal papers, bank statements, a purple purse with a note inside, bedding, clothing, even a dryer lint collector.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 23, 2015, 08:37:22 PM
I was going back and reading the earlier days of the trial, and came across something curious, and a potential bombshell if this note which DS sent to RO, is one and the same note removed from Dennis' home by law enforcement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-trial-affair-1.3248185

On July 6, Sedlacek asks whether he "found note? - re Our Trip."
He replies promptly: "Have in [office]," but says he has a meeting.

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/article/spilled-secrets-the-richard-oland-murder-mystery/

On July 14, one week after the murder, 20 police officers, acting on a warrant, swooped in on Dennis Oland’s home at 58 Gondola Point Road, the same one he’d inherited from his grandfather, the same one his father had saved from the ashes of his divorce. Police spent eight hours combing the house and grounds and left with four large garbage bags, several cardboard boxes and some paper bags, seizing a total of 57 different items: legal papers, bank statements, a purple purse with a note inside, bedding, clothing, even a dryer lint collector.

Sorry, do we know that the 'note' is physical or electronic? Is that clarified, somewhere?   Oh, off topic to this post but, what happened to the end of DO's video statement?  It's not all there, did they purposely cut it off at the end & where they inform him that he's a suspect or is there another link that has the full statement that I've missed?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 23, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Hi snowhite;  I think the note would be a paper note as it was found in a purple purse.
and DS asked RO if he has her note, and he says yes, it is on my desk.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 23, 2015, 08:54:53 PM
Quote Snowwhite:

"Oh, off topic to this post but, what happened to the end of DO's video statement?  It's not all there, did they purposely cut it off at the end & where they inform him that he's a suspect or is there another link that has the full statement that I've missed?"

Yes the video stops and we never hear about him being advised that he is a suspect and that search warrants will be issued.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 23, 2015, 08:59:06 PM
Quote Snowwhite:

"Oh, off topic to this post but, what happened to the end of DO's video statement?  It's not all there, did they purposely cut it off at the end & where they inform him that he's a suspect or is there another link that has the full statement that I've missed?"

Yes the video stops and we never hear about him being advised that he is a suspect and that search warrants will be issued.

Okay, thank you, thought it was my computer.  JB, I'm missing something with the purple bag thing.  I'll have to reread the links on the weekend. Blue Jays have priority at the moment.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:49:22 AM
Having second thoughts about this trial being so open and transparent. Does anyone remember the Russel Williams interview with Detective Smyth that was posted on the internet?

I think that this was posted after he was convicted.  Yes?  No? I can't recall with certainty.

In any event, in this Oland case, the suspect was totally unaware that in the future this would be up on the net for all to see as the trial progressed.

It would give anyone under investigation second thoughts about opening up to a detective if they are being questioned.

Exhibits (pictures of) tweets of trial - okay with that.

But intimate interview between suspect and law enforcement - given to the public to view prior to end of trial, gives me a strange feeling.

I know, I have commented on the interview, along with others, but there was always something that was just not quite right about watching it.

There was something about doing so, that was a bit unsettling, ..........
The conversations were so private and it was so confidential....

Watching an interview via video is far more powerful, it shows the intimacy of the conversation, the privacy of it all -  A suspect, a detective in a small room sharing a table.

The accused is still in trial and has not been convicted.

I think this is a first - and I wonder about his rights.
His rights, or lack of, as a citizen, I guess may be applied to us as well?


Just my thoughts.

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 24, 2015, 11:29:02 AM
Dennis should have asked for a lawyer and if anyone is in trouble that should be the first thing they do - request a lawyer but Dennis thought he was only being interviewed as a witness at this point and so not in trouble. He gave a lot of confidential family info. Unsure if he was just trying to change the subject type of thing or trying to avoid discussing the crime itself and babbling. But I have watched several of these interviews online and on tv. Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman come to mind albeit these crimes were American and all during or before trial. I am not sure you have any rights except asking for a lawyer. Phone calls from jail are recorded and can be released as well. I sure hope Dennis didn't do this but, to me, at this point, it doesn't look good. Not sure who else could have committed this act with such explosive violence and fury. Someone who wanted to steal $20 for drugs? Or as Dennis put it, 'a vindictive ex-girlfriend'? That was something else that stuck out to me, the EX-girlfriend. Why would he refer to her as an ex. Or I assume he was referring to her.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 12:26:22 PM
blueriver
Quote
but Dennis thought he was only being interviewed as a witness at this point and so not in trouble. He gave a lot of confidential family info.

That is one point in this whole thing - for sure.  It was towards the end of the interview when he turned into a suspect in the mind of the detective. (and the defense brought that very point forward yesterday}

Too late then to call a lawyer.

He gave his answers without hesitation and in trust.  Yet, it is now all over the net and the jury has not even given a verdict.  I don't know if he is guilty or not and that is not my point in this.

I am surprised that the courts gave this interview in total  to the press.

Arguments will be made that everything else, the exhibits, the tweets from the trial was okay, so why not the video of the interview?

Because the interview and his Statement was given  in trust. Trust that it would stay within law enforcement,  for one thing is my answer. His written statement given to the press would have sufficed in my opinion.
- or at the very least, the confidential part should have been edited out.
jb.
ps. I hope we never follow the American way. We have our Charter of Rights to love and protect. And this case, gives me pause for thought and concern.


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 24, 2015, 01:10:48 PM
I agree parts of this interview should/could have been edited out especially when discussing his minor daughter and her name. Is it part of the Freedom of Information act as to why the press are allowed to publish an interview conducted by police? I don't know. And it was too late for Dennis to call a lawyer and some interpret calling a lawyer as a sign of guilt as some interpret not taking the witness stand as a sign of guilt. Dennis probably should never have elaborated like he did and I really don't know about the trust issue. Police use many tactics like lying, good cop/bad cop to get a witness or suspect to open up and confess or to find out what the witness/suspect will admit. Again, I do agree we did not need to hear his family's confidential information but we did learn that Dick could at times be a very unpleasant father and friend.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 05:48:16 PM
The interview is fascinating but what it all means, I haven't a clue.  He only was asked to detail, both written & oral, the events of the day from the time he got up til the time he went to bed. What he ended up offering was a condensed, personal life history, his multiple theories on who might have murdered his father before he could have been 100% certain that he was murdered, and on one of those theories guessed correctly that personal electronics was probably a strong motive.  I too agree that although he offered this information freely to LE, he did not know that this would be later used against him and in a public fashion.  I have little idea of the law but I thought that once he became a suspect they would say something to that effect and give him options to remain silent, call a lawyer etc ... but apparently that isn't the case in such a scenario where the crossing of the fine line, grey area, neutral zone is so fluid and fleeting.  Having said all that, he crossed that line from witness to suspect before the first hour was up & in my amateur notes/books.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 06:04:47 PM
Thanks snowhite for your input.

Quote
I too agree that although he offered this information freely to LE, he did not know that this would be later used against him and in a public fashion.  I have little idea of the law but I thought that once he became a suspect they would say something to that effect and give him options to remain silent, call a lawyer etc ... but apparently that isn't the case in such a scenario where the crossing of the fine line, grey area, neutral zone is so fluid and fleeting.  Having said all that, he crossed that line from witness to suspect before the first hour was up & in my amateur notes/books.

I agree with you completely, accept for one thing... he crossed that line with the detective right at the end of the interview.  Without warning.

quote from trial: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699

The accused was initially considered a witness and voluntarily went to police headquarters with other family members to provide any information that might assist with the investigation.

But by 8:22 p.m., he was a suspect in the homicide and informed that search warrants would be executed against him, according to an agreed statement of facts submitted at his second-degree murder trial on Wednesday.

The video ended at 8:22 pm.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 06:16:54 PM
Yup, I think he became a suspect in their eyes because he remembered most everything (else) in detail, yet couldn't ascertain the times/routes of his comings and goings from the office building.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 06:29:12 PM
Yup, I think he became a suspect in their eyes because he remembered most everything (else) in detail, yet couldn't ascertain the times/routes of his comings and goings from the office building.
Agreed. Very troublesome!

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 06:44:09 PM
Here in opening statements the prosecutor is laying his groundwork.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-trial-of-dennis-oland-accused-of-murdering-millionaire-father-reveals-dysfunctional-family

"According to prosecutor Veniot, the public reputation Dick Oland enjoyed — as a generous philanthropist and fundraiser who brought the Canada Games to Saint John and was an Order of Canada recipient — was “quite a different story at home,” with his family.

Worth an estimated $37 million on the day of his death, this according to his trusted executive assistant Maureen Adamson who kept a watchful eye on her boss’s investments and who began testifying Wednesday, Dick Oland nonetheless had his wife on a short financial leash, the prosecutor said, giving her an allowance of about $2,000 a month but demanding receipts.

Adamson fleshed that out: Connie Oland’s expenses for running the home were actually “refunded by Mr. Oland” after she submitted receipts, which Adamson would put into “a little report for him.”

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a family is treated that way, they learn to accept their lot. It becomes routine, dysfunctional month,  year after year.  God knows how many.
If -- and I think if -- the son was involved, I wonder if the word of an impending divorce from his mother came to light ...... and this could not be allowed to happen?
Who knows? Dick had many enemies.

jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 07:16:28 PM
I'm highly anticipating that the prosecutors will pose that question to the mistress, if/when she gets to the stand.  As in, 'in your estimation, how would you rate Dick's marriage situation on a scale of 1 - 10 with 10 being happily married, and 1 being miserable'? She could potentially then say it was only staying together as a 'financial convenience'.  What then? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
Snowhite: I am looking forward to her having to answer to the defense counsel.

She no longer lives in NB - she left the province.

She will most certainly be called to testify, due to her timeline of not hearing from Dick, and the things that she said to the detective when questioned. In amongst other involvement that she had with Dick, and supposedly what he told her about his own wife and kids.
.
The defense will never ask her to rate the marriage - they will ask her every detail about the relationship she had with Dick, and if she really believed that Dick would marry her - and bring up a few things that would question Dick's intentions of divorcing his wife to marry her.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 24, 2015, 07:47:07 PM
I'm highly anticipating that the prosecutors will pose that question to the mistress, if/when she gets to the stand.  As in, 'in your estimation, how would you rate Dick's marriage situation on a scale of 1 - 10 with 10 being happily married, and 1 being miserable'? She could potentially then say it was only staying together as a 'financial convenience'.  What then?

First of all, I would consider the source. I wouldn't think one would expect that she would say his marriage situation was good.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 08:02:45 PM

First of all, I would consider the source. I wouldn't think one would expect that she would say his marriage situation was good.

Yes, that wouldn't go over too well with anyone. "Yes, I'm seeing a guy who has a really good marriage. At the moment."
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 08:14:06 PM
I'm highly anticipating that the prosecutors will pose that question to the mistress, if/when she gets to the stand.  As in, 'in your estimation, how would you rate Dick's marriage situation on a scale of 1 - 10 with 10 being happily married, and 1 being miserable'? She could potentially then say it was only staying together as a 'financial convenience'.  What then?

First of all, I would consider the source. I wouldn't think one would expect that she would say his marriage situation was good.

No, that's just the (hypothetical) opening gambit. I'm not a prosecutor.  The whole arrangement did not appear to be very happy, healthy.  She was living in his house(or his business' house perhaps thus the expenses to the office), and submitting expenses for living, so even if she did know (women know!) about the affair and was bitter about it - what could she do?  A) Endure B) Leave C) Ask/file for a divorce D) .......  I'm sure they will ask the right questions when the time comes, her responses could be pivotal.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 08:22:51 PM

First of all, I would consider the source. I wouldn't think one would expect that she would say his marriage situation was good.

Yes, that wouldn't go over too well with anyone. "Yes, I'm seeing a guy who has a really good marriage. At the moment."

Dennis' statement seems to indicate that the marriage would be fine if not for the intervention of the manipulative 'Dragon Lady' and that it 'has to' stop!  So, there 'might' be a big difference of opinion, or not, on this situation.  Somebody probably has to ask that question sooner or later.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 08:33:38 PM

First of all, I would consider the source. I wouldn't think one would expect that she would say his marriage situation was good.

Yes, that wouldn't go over too well with anyone. "Yes, I'm seeing a guy who has a really good marriage. At the moment."

Dennis' statement seems to indicate that the marriage would be fine if not for the intervention of the manipulative 'Dragon Lady' and that it 'has to' stop!  So, there 'might' be a big difference of opinion, or not, on this situation.  Somebody probably has to ask that question sooner or later.

He stuck up for his father, in the interview in many ways,  and gave excuses for his father's behavior, a good example that his father had  a disability called Aspergers syndrome, of which he was told by his mother.
And so the family unit, sat, and made forgiving allowances.
So common in family abuse!!

jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 24, 2015, 08:34:05 PM
Dick most likely was staying married for financial reasons.  It isn't uncommon in such situations.  It doesn't sound like he treated his wife with respect and love based on what we know.  He was the one to lose financially if his wife divorced him.  Normally, this kind of scenario..wealthy, long-time married man with a lover, generates motive for a husband to kill his wife, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 08:38:58 PM
Dick most likely was staying married for financial reasons.  It isn't uncommon in such situations.  It doesn't sound like he treated his wife with respect and love based on what we know.  He was the one to lose financially if his wife divorced him.  Normally, this kind of scenario..wealthy, long-time married man with a lover, generates motive for a husband to kill his wife, not the other way around.

Very true. He appeared to be grappling for every cent from his family, but a divorce would quickly reduce his assets by 50%.  Not an option.  If they says it's not about the money .....
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 08:44:44 PM
Exactly, that is why Diane, the mistress, by her very tweets shown in court chased Dick, and became very demanding of his time.  Even chasing him down at his home many times before the murder.  The defense will tear her into shreds.

Dick loved money more than anything. He had accrued $37 million.  .. as I said very early on - no way would he divorce wife as after 40 some years of marriage, by the law, she might have walked away with "the large"  50 percent by Canadian Law.
Diane was becoming more demanding of Dick's time, and was becoming more desperate.
She was becoming more impatient, and Dick was not making any move.

Which opens up a new thought, why murder Dick, why not the mistress who was the problem? That is  if Dennis was involved?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 08:59:13 PM

He stuck up for his father, in the interview in many ways,  and gave excuses for his father's behavior, a good example that his father had  a disability called Aspergers syndrome, of which he was told by his mother.
And so the family unit, sat, and made forgiving allowances.
So common in family abuse!!

jb

Just to clarify, Dennis said his mother thought Dick might have Asperger's Syndrome, not that he did have it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 09:05:05 PM
Which opens up a new thought, why murder Dick, why not the mistress who was the problem? That is  if Dennis was involved?

jb

Because, he'd just get another?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 09:12:25 PM
When Dennis said that it could be an ex-girlfriend who was jealous, I thought that he meant any girlfriend before Diane.  He said that he did not know how many girl friends his father may have had.
Go back and look at the interview, and see what your take of it is.

Anyhow, I am anticipating Diane taking the stand to see what she has to say.
She will be called that is for certain.

Just as the court room was filled for the Deputy Chief, I will bet the courtroom will be filled to overflowing for her testimony on the stand.

I hope she does not have "stage fright" Sad to say...


jb
As you can tell, no woman has any empathy for a mistress. Neither would the females in a jury.  We can be very harsh about such things.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 09:31:23 PM
When Dennis said that it could be an ex-girlfriend who was jealous, I thought that he meant any girlfriend before Diane.  He said that he did not know how many girl friends his father may have had.
Go back and look at the interview, and see what your take of it is.




jb

I've looked at it.  There is nothing specific there, all either speculation, hearsay, &/or slightly convoluted.  If the family had been discussing all day on who might have done something, and the finger pointed toward his adulterous affairs - then it might make sense for him to spew out bits & pieces of what he had heard from his family during the course of that day.  Again, don't know why he suddenly donned his detective hat instead of just focusing on and recounting his day's itinerary.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 09:37:49 PM
Exactly, because he did not know for sure, no proof about an affair, only rumours, and he alluded to it.  Re:possible multiple affairs.  Suspected, but not certain. 
Strikes me as the type who would have to catch them in the act to believe it.

However, he heard strong rumours about Diane and info gathered from his sister, who took along time to connect Diane to her father. Leave it a woman, his daughter approached Dick and told him what she knew.  Good for her!!

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 09:44:57 PM
Again, don't know why he suddenly donned his detective hat instead of just focusing on and recounting his day's itinerary.

...or asking what happened to his father instead of recounting his most recent genealogical research. 'OK Officer, tell me what happened to my father and I will answer your questions. Ah never mind, let me tell you about Bryce Worthington in the year 1600 and something. It'll be more fun.'
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 09:54:58 PM
Good point Baysailor. But the family already was told that Dick was dead, nothing more and Dennis said that the man had good health, etc, and went on the assumption that he died of something totally different. 

He did ask the detective, I believe, or fished around would be more like it, as to what happened to his dad.
The detective never answered. Smoothly, went into direct questioning.

No demanding there! Dennis was a non confrontational type... weak is the word.
Not my type... but they do exist!!


jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 10:02:43 PM
Good point Baysailor. But the family already was told that Dick was dead, nothing more and Dennis said that the man had good health, etc, and went on the assumption that he died of something totally different.  lol

He did ask the detective, I believe, or fished around would be more like it, as to what happened to his dad.
The detective never answered. Smoothly, went into direct questioning.

No demanding there!


jb

I find it unimaginable to not push for that info. He was much more interested in talking family history.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:08:11 PM
Dennis was a non confrontational type...

Yes, I would demand, and yes the wife and sisters had the right to demand an answer.
They too were questioned separately by detectives.
But then, it has never happened to me. In shock - who knows, but it is odd behaviour to go into family history
jb

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 24, 2015, 10:09:41 PM
Gee, I was unaware of Dennis' heavy monthly financial obligations as I read in the National Post article linked a few posts ago. Almost $6,000/mo plus interest payments on his line of credit and credit card payments and daily living expenses. And the article says his last cheque for the house loan interest payment was returned nsf - arriving after Dick's death. And he had already taken a few salary loans. Of course I don't know his monthly salary but salary loans are an indication he was in tough shape. A man who has 37 million (probably mostly investments) and at least two of his children are financially strapped in their forties. He mentions his sister's problems in the interview. Dick didn't help them out but paid Dennis' divorce bill and saved the family home. I am kind of blown away really. Million dollar racing boats.........Perhaps Dick and his brother were raised similarly and watched their mother be treated similarly.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:19:49 PM
quote blueriver: A man who has 37 million (probably mostly investments) and at least two of his children are financially strapped in their forties. He mentions his sister's problems in the interview. Dick didn't help them out but paid Dennis' divorce bill and saved the family home. I am kind of blown away really. Million dollar racing boats.........Perhaps Dick and his brother were raised similarly and watched their mother be treated similarly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not being smug, but am I sure glad and appreciative of my family.  We all helped each other through tough times, without any expectations, other than the satisfaction that we were there for each other, including financial help when one of us was in distress.

It was once pointed out to me by a very wise person who said that money accrues, if you are very careful of it, if you don't spend much of it, it builds up --- but one has to give a helping hand to others and part with some of  it, ask nothing in return. So true!!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 24, 2015, 10:27:20 PM
Quote

I find it unimaginable to not push for that info. He was much more interested in talking family history.

But he did have a certain obligation to speak of the family history thing, because that, by all accounts, made up the crux of the meeting.
The executive assistant confirms that they were discussing this when she left, and he was going to drive that point home to
the detective and about the reason for his visit, the depth of his knowledge on the topic, and for which seemed to indicate that there was no shortage of fuel for the meeting, thus (potentially) eating up valuable minutes of time spent.  He did that, and probably couldn't help himself going overboard because of his apparent passion for that history. So that particular tangent seems more warranted than not.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
Quote Snowhite"

But he did have a certain obligation to speak of the family history thing, because that, by all accounts, made up the crux of the meeting.
The executive assistant confirms that they were discussing this when she left, and he was going to drive that point home to
the detective and about the reason for his visit, the depth of his knowledge on the topic, and for which seemed to indicate that there was no shortage of fuel for the meeting, thus (potentially) eating up valuable minutes of time spent.  He did that, and probably couldn't help himself going overboard because of his apparent passion for that history. So that particular tangent seems more warranted than not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gosh, so well said, and so well explained/jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 24, 2015, 10:33:54 PM
Quote:

The detective never answered. Smoothly, went into direct questioning.

I will look again, but I thought the detective said that he didn't know how Dick died.  That pretty well ends that question, although I also would have demanded to know what happened from the beginning of the interview.     

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:36:13 PM
That does not end that question.

If the detective said that he did not know how Dick died, then he was lying! He knew that Dick was murdered. The crime scene was obvious, and the detective would have been very aware

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 24, 2015, 10:37:37 PM
If the detective said that he did not know how Dick died, then he was lying! He knew that he was murdered.

jb


Yes of course he knew, and Dennis should have called him on that. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
He asked the detective in a round about way.... oh never mind. He was trying to guess about what happened.  And he did eventually ask... and
The detective gave him nothing......
How often have we seen that happen on this board?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 10:47:01 PM
Perhaps Dick and his brother were raised similarly and watched their mother be treated similarly.

My comments only:

Dick and Derek were both raised with a bit of their fathers military discipline, and PW certainly wasn't warm and fuzzy man or father. Despite the brewing dynasty being started by Susannah in the 19th century his way was to pass the majority of the fortune to the male heirs, and his wife Mary was essentially uninvolved in the business. Regardless, when Dick would quit Moosehead after a temper tantrum when he didn't get his way it was Mary who would convince PW to ask Dick to come back. Until the last time, that is, when PW said no.

Dick's brother was raised in the same household yet treats his wife with great respect, and, I think, admiration, and their 4 boys have to my eye turned out well, the 3 eldest working at the brewery while the youngest is a successful tech entrepreneur.       
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
Quote

I find it unimaginable to not push for that info. He was much more interested in talking family history.

But he did have a certain obligation to speak of the family history thing, because that, by all accounts, made up the crux of the meeting.
The executive assistant confirms that they were discussing this when she left, and he was going to drive that point home to
the detective and about the reason for his visit, the depth of his knowledge on the topic, and for which seemed to indicate that there was no shortage of fuel for the meeting, thus (potentially) eating up valuable minutes of time spent.  He did that, and probably couldn't help himself going overboard because of his apparent passion for that history. So that particular tangent seems more warranted than not.

I disagree, respectfully. I don't see anyone going that deeply onto a tangent where there is this dark cloud of a (assumed) murder hanging over their heads. I see that as a very unusually detailed sidebar when the question of what has happened to his father is completely unanswered.  IMO only, and I do realize different folks react differently to tragic news. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 11:00:03 PM
He did ask, no response, but quickly went into questioning about childhood etc.

People are different.  As I said, Dennis is weak, and would begin to answer questions put forward by authority.  He was raised that way.

Look - I too am very strong and would demand to know - but if the answer came back that I don't know exactly what happened, but I  think you can help me by answering a few questions........of course I would want to be helpful.

quote snowhite;

But he did have a certain obligation to speak of the family history thing, because that, by all accounts, made up the crux of the meeting.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 11:20:16 PM
I did some research on Derek and he is a decent and honourable man. A fair employer, a quiet reserved citizen who contributes to the community without expectations of fanfare.
He is standing by his family.
New Brunswick is fortunate in having him.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 24, 2015, 11:20:54 PM
quote blueriver: A man who has 37 million (probably mostly investments) and at least two of his children are financially strapped in their forties. He mentions his sister's problems in the interview. Dick didn't help them out but paid Dennis' divorce bill and saved the family home. I am kind of blown away really. Million dollar racing boats.........Perhaps Dick and his brother were raised similarly and watched their mother be treated similarly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not being smug, but am I sure glad and appreciative of my family.  We all helped each other through tough times, without any expectations, other than the satisfaction that we were there for each other, including financial help when one of us was in distress.

It was once pointed out to me by a very wise person who said that money accrues, if you are very careful of it, if you don't spend much of it, it builds up --- but one has to give a helping hand to others and part with some of  it, ask nothing in return. So true!!

Yes, it is true. But the nsf cheque coming and the financial straits Dennis was in could be considered  a motive. The killer arrived there with a weapon.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 24, 2015, 11:27:03 PM
The secretary said that the late payments were fine with Richard.

Look, Richard knew his son was struggling, and it did not phase him, according to Maureen.


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 24, 2015, 11:42:47 PM
Just to clarify,  Dennis asked what happened to Dick at the beginning of the interview, and the detective ignored him.  At 7:51 Dennis asks what happened again more forcefully, and Det. Davidson says" All I know is that the death did occur.....if I knew what happened I'd share it with you". 

I agree jb, Dennis would react differently with authority figures due to his father's powerful dominance over him.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 24, 2015, 11:53:28 PM
The secretary said that the late payments were fine with Richard.

Look, Richard knew his son was struggling, and it did not phase him, according to Maureen.


jb

Adamson did indeed say that, and also said that she thought Dick and Dennis had a good relationship and was surprised to hear otherwise after the murder. It seems Dick did not confide in her when it came to the father/son relationship and they kept the public face on when in front of her.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 12:07:23 PM
Okay, I'm going over the video statement again and something just jumped out at me.  At ~ 2:07:29, the cop begins and basically accuses him of leaving a crime scene. He says ' .... it's significant because if I'm leaving an office that's a crime scene ... going up the wrong way ...' . I would have stopped him right there and said 'Yo! hold the phone, dude - what crime scene are you talking about?'  But DO doesn't interject or anything, just carries on normally.   Frankly, that whole description, times and routes are so convoluted and it appears that both the cop and Dennis are simultaneously talking about both times he left the office, all at once.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2015, 12:24:44 PM
Okay, I'm going over the video statement again and something just jumped out at me.  At ~ 2:07:29, the cop begins and basically accuses him of leaving a crime scene. He says ' .... it's significant because if I'm leaving an office that's a crime scene ... going up the wrong way ...' . I would have stopped him right there and said 'Yo! hold the phone, dude - what crime scene are you talking about?'  But DO doesn't interject or anything, just carries on normally.   Frankly, that whole description, times and routes are so convoluted and it appears that both the cop and Dennis are simultaneously talking about both times he left the office, all at once.

Davidson, all that he had to do was - give the man a notepad, a pen, and say, okay Dennis draw a map of your route, and the approx times.  Put arrows on the route, showing each destination as to your directions.

But the detective did not! Would that not clarify Dennis's muddled brain?  Dennis did say that he felt overpowered, not sure as to exact words..... he was muddled.

 Dennis was left tracing his route with his finger on a table, in an empty room.

Since the detective thought this was the most important part of the interview,most police would say put your routes, approx times down on paper.

Why did he not do it?



jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 12:35:54 PM
True, but don't forget that he had submitted a written statement earlier in the evening, which also differed from his oral description at around the two hour mark.  He appeared to be in a state of uncertainty about that office 'get together' from the get go and when he almost left for home after arriving to the top of the stairs.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2015, 12:42:19 PM
I don't think....? that Dennis wrote down driving routes to the T in his written statement.

Not sure, but his written statement is online.

I am under the impression that these driving routes towards the end, was verbal not written in statement. It was the driving routes, correct me if I am wrong, that turned him from a witness into a suspect.  ? ?

I read Baysailors post and with the background given, yes, Dennis did know his city very well.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 01:00:00 PM
No, he's vague in his written statement about leaving and returning to the office. He only says 'headed' back to the(his) office. At one point in the verbal statement, I believe he states that he only made it to the car and did some texting(business), before returning to his father's office and then he changes that to having 'drove away' before coming right back.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2015, 01:02:23 PM
EEk!! not good! Do you not get an overall impression that Dennis lived his life, half in and half out of it.  . I mean living in auto drive? Doing one thing, and thinking of something else?

I still think that it was a command meeting by Dick.  And yes, I agree with the poster who said that Dick would talk pleasantly with his son around Maureen.

Then when she left, Dick would get down to business.imo

jb


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 01:11:44 PM
No comment, don't know, don't know him or his traits. Just trying to analyze what was given in the statement and noting what jumps out at me . Not saying that I wouldn't have behaved similarly under those conditions.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2015, 01:15:18 PM
Snowhite; I too am trying to analyze - we are in the same boat.

Great that we can discuss, agree at times, and disagree on others.  I would not want to be sitting on that jury, the way things stand.
I am sitting on the fence. Tossed one way - must be guilty - tossed another way, perhaps he is a dreamer type and completely innocent.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 25, 2015, 02:58:02 PM
Jellybean, the driving route would have been very simple and straightforward  (I don't think he would have had to produce a map  - it would be quite easy to explain).  I've no doubt he could have done it without thinking, "muddled" or not.  I don't quite know what I think of the rest of his behaviour during that time period.  It's strange to say the least but I am not suggesting it is necessarily a sign of guilt.  I believe you are right on in your take on much of it.  He certainly appears to be weak and easily intimidated by authority.  Understandable perhaps but at some point we all have to "grow up" and take charge.

I also agree the video should only have been used as evidence and not released to the media (at least not all of it).    Identifying the child by name, for instance,  would certainly seem to me to be totally uncalled for and careless, if not downright dangerous. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 03:35:26 PM

  I believe you are right on in your take on much of it.  He certainly appears to be weak and easily intimidated by authority.

Sorry, I didn't see that at all in/from him and, imo, the cop that interviewed him was not very authoritative, minced words and did  not close in to the very, very end with accusatory dialogue.  Sometimes birds sing a bit too much for their own good.  It could have been the case, here.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 25, 2015, 03:42:25 PM
I was thinking more in terms of his relationship with his father and some of the other individuals in his life, Snowhite.

I agree with you that he probably did say far too much for his own good and Cst Davidson just let him go to it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 25, 2015, 03:55:41 PM
I was thinking more in terms of his relationship with his father and some of the other individuals in his life, Snowhite.

I agree with this statement RubyRose.

Quote
I agree with you that he probably did say far too much for his own good and Cst Davidson just let him go to it.

Agree here too. I'm sure Police know exactly what they are doing in an interview. You can be sure Cst. Davidson just let him go at it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 06:57:14 PM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 25, 2015, 08:31:20 PM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.

Very significant.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 25, 2015, 09:03:08 PM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.


Davidson asked Dennis what Dick was doing when he "left him", and he replied that he was sitting at his desk looking at his computer screen.  We have no idea where they were positioned during their meeting. 

Modified to make a correction--Dick was sitting at his desk engaged in "reading".   

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 25, 2015, 09:25:37 PM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.


Davidson asked Dennis what Dick was doing when he "left him", and he replied that he was sitting at his desk looking at his computer screen.  We have no idea where they were positioned during their meeting.

True, and (significant or not) Dennis sort of turns his back to the cop & does a physical enactment of Dick's standard position and at his desk.  I think it's potentially significant if they can correlate his demo with the position they found Dick resting in.  Remember that they said the murderer must have been well known to Dick, (probably) meaning that they were able to get up close & personal with them and in order to land the blows that they did!?   Which, of course, begs the question - how many 'well known' people at that time of night could/would visit him impromptu, and remembering he's usually gone by 6:30pm and or at least answers his mobile by then.  Still the time of thumps cannot be overlooked and must be factored into the equation.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: capeheart on October 26, 2015, 09:40:56 AM
It certainly sounds like Dennis is digging himself in deeper. If he knew the way his father was sitting, that is like a tattoo on his mind, he wouldn't be able to erase it and knew that is the last position he saw his father in, possibly before he bludgeoned him to death. Killers usually give themselves away at some point in a statement. So his statement was admitted into evidence, not always the statement is admitted. There was possibly some legal arguments over it being admitted. Only if it was of a benefit to Dennis. I guess it was a video statement and they would be able to see his mannerisms and his visible emotions that may show guilt or none. It is all very interesting and nobody ever knows the outcome of a trial, especially a jury trial.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 26, 2015, 10:04:23 AM
And the fact that RO's last use of the computer was at 5:39 pm if I remember correctly. Adamson left at 5:45 pm.

One would think if RO was hit from behind with one of those dry wall hammer's, he would be immediately incapacitated to some degree or completely incapacitated. Perhaps he might be able to stand up and turn and use his hands to block more blows, perhaps he would put his hands to the back of his head but quickly lose the capacity to fight back. Gruesome but if you count in your mind to 46 and imagine someone hitting someone mostly in the head with that kind of weapon that many times, that would expend a lot of energy and I would think it would take less than a minute.

 is it possible the iPhone was taken to look like a robbery? As Dennis said in the interview someone who steals electronics. But there were iPads there, too, untouched.

Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 26, 2015, 10:08:48 AM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.


Davidson asked Dennis what Dick was doing when he "left him", and he replied that he was sitting at his desk looking at his computer screen.  We have no idea where they were positioned during their meeting.

Anything beyond this is speculation. Dennis was asked a direct question, and he answered it.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 27, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
@ ~ 1:21:20 ++ we learn some more detail.  Dick was apparently sitting at his desk looking at his computer screens and with his back to Dennis.  Don't know how important that is, but surely it's important to the cops and combined with the location they found him on the floor. Before hearing this, I would have assumed that the family roots discussion was with them both at a table looking forward or at a table having a face to face discussion.  But talking to him with back turned, half engrossed in another task is different and may have been significant to investigators.


Davidson asked Dennis what Dick was doing when he "left him", and he replied that he was sitting at his desk looking at his computer screen.  We have no idea where they were positioned during their meeting. 

Modified to make a correction--Dick was sitting at his desk engaged in "reading".   

Thanks for modifying to correct the information Have Faith. Either way, it is clear that this is the answer given by Dennis, in regard to what his father was doing when he "left him" and does not speak of where they were positioned during their meeting.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 10:23:44 AM
In my opinion, Dennis did not fare well at trial this am with evidence presented.

On day of murder, if all grainy videos are of Dennis and his vehicle (downtown (we have not seen these) it seems that Dennis was really muddled and his route had him going back and forth and zig zagging all over the place.

Also seen shopping on July 8th, at two different hardware stores when he should have been at work.  (Perhaps Dennis had a habit of being a late arriver - don't know). Did not find out that his father was deceased until noon.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 10:33:53 AM
In my opinion, Dennis did not fare well at trial this am with evidence presented.

On day of murder, if all grainy videos are of Dennis and his vehicle (downtown (we have not seen these) it seems that Dennis was really muddled and his route had him going back and forth and zig zagging all over the place.

Also seen shopping on July 8th, at two different hardware stores when he should have been at work.  (Perhaps Dennis had a habit of being a late arriver - don't know). Did not find out that his father was deceased until noon.

jb


That whole visit, revisit, come, go, leave, maybe I'll stay, maybe I'll go recount is a bit of a circus to say the least. I studied logic in college and I can't seem to make head nor tail of it at the moment. All amplified by grainy video and with both prosecution & defense hedging their bets on what best (hopefully) justifies their position.  Investment managers are known to keep loose office hours like insurance & real estate agents.  His absence from the office does not mean he was not 'doing business' via voice/text.  On the other hand his itinerary that morning could be easily verified as normal or not through a questioning with his office colleagues.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 27, 2015, 11:53:14 AM
Investment managers are known to keep loose office hours like insurance & real estate agents.  His absence from the office does not mean he was not 'doing business' via voice/text.  On the other hand his itinerary that morning could be easily verified as normal or not through a questioning with his office colleagues.

That is true, an investment broker, as Dennis was, is expected to spend as much time drumming up new business and maintaining relationships as they are with anything else. Investments firms have other folks to do the research and administration. They may play golf with clients, sail with clients, wine and dine them, work on their retail banking contacts for new clients, etc. They don't make money sitting in their office unless they're on the phone.     
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
There's one thing that's been bugging me.  It's the bag.  I have a few of these grocery bags lying around but I've never ever used them for business or documents.  I have a nice Italian leather briefcase to carry important papers.  I'm well aware of the demise of the briefcase in today's society, but it still draws one's attention, a $900.00 Hugo Boss blazer and a $2.00 grocery bag.  Three thoughts on that, 1) it was his normal means of carrying nonfood items around or 2) it was perhaps carrying more than just papers on that day and therefore more practical both for volume & accessibility. or 3) He has no other formal means of carrying business papers and it was the nearest/best thing he could find at the last moment. Would like to hear how others feel about this detail.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 27, 2015, 01:39:39 PM
Today's CBC court blogs:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-liveblog-oct-27-1.3290183 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-trial-liveblog-oct-27-1.3290183)


Constable S. Davidson was on the hot seat today, as defense lawyer Miller tore apart his claim that he had checked the back door of RO's office building.  He claims that he and Const. T. Gilbert checked the door on July 7 or 9.

This action was not noted in SD or TG's daily notes, nor was it included in SD's weekly full Narrative report.  The first he mentioned it was at the Preliminary Hearing in August/14, three years later.

SD testified at the P.H. that after opening the back door, he had to jump down 3 feet to the ground, and had to hoist himself back up to re-enter the door.  A photo of the back door clearly shows stairs leading down to ground level, which would be a 5 foot drop without them.  The building owner stated the stairs were installed in 2000.  LE did not take a photo of the stairs until last summer.

I don't think that this will sit well with the jurors.  LE incompetence is one thing, but any question of Police dishonesty is worse.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 27, 2015, 01:45:41 PM
There's one thing that's been bugging me.  It's the bag.  I have a few of these grocery bags lying around but I've never ever used them for business or documents.  I have a nice Italian leather briefcase to carry important papers.  I'm well aware of the demise of the briefcase in today's society, but it still draws one's attention, a $900.00 Hugo Boss blazer and a $2.00 grocery bag.  Three thoughts on that, 1) it was his normal means of carrying nonfood items around or 2) it was perhaps carrying more than just papers on that day and therefore more practical both for volume & accessibility. or 3) He has no other formal means of carrying business papers and it was the nearest/best thing he could find at the last moment. Would like to hear how others feel about this detail.


My quick thought on this is to recall that Dick, who was worth $37 million, had a backpack sitting beside his desk.   ;)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 01:52:17 PM
There's one thing that's been bugging me.  It's the bag.  I have a few of these grocery bags lying around but I've never ever used them for business or documents.  I have a nice Italian leather briefcase to carry important papers.  I'm well aware of the demise of the briefcase in today's society, but it still draws one's attention, a $900.00 Hugo Boss blazer and a $2.00 grocery bag.  Three thoughts on that, 1) it was his normal means of carrying nonfood items around or 2) it was perhaps carrying more than just papers on that day and therefore more practical both for volume & accessibility. or 3) He has no other formal means of carrying business papers and it was the nearest/best thing he could find at the last moment. Would like to hear how others feel about this detail.



My quick thought on this is to recall that Dick, who was worth $37 million, had a backpack sitting beside his desk.   ;)

Yup, another great carry-all for wills/documents.  8)   Backpack more for heading out to the yacht club after work rather than off to a business meeting, perhaps???
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 27, 2015, 02:03:29 PM
The discrepancies with the time stamps from the video cameras could produce some problems.  The article does not specifically identify the tape from Thandi's as being the one that is out by 58 minutes but if it is, that could make a huge difference in the timeline.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-video-alibi-1.3290384
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 02:25:19 PM
Yeah, I don't know how you would go about synchronizing/verifying the timings of all the camera footage.  Recent power outages, battery backup/UPS efficiency, Daylight Savings come to mind off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: RubyRose on October 27, 2015, 02:54:13 PM
In addition, the judge cautioned the jury to use their own judgement when considering the videos.  In my opinion (for what little that may be worth), if the "expert" was not always sure exactly what he was seeing or looking at, it's a bit difficult to expect the jury to know.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 04:31:40 PM
The time of the GF's phone call in conjunction with the time of the registered ping are still to come.  There may be a way to extrapolate the
timeline a bit better & after learning these pieces to the puzzle.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 04:36:31 PM
The registered ping from the county golf course area, came from Richard Oland's phone - not Dennis'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-murder-suspect-s-cellphone-data-seized-1.1358013

snippets: Here, Oland is used in reference to Richard.  The present accused is referred to as suspect.

Previously-released warrants indicated the last outgoing signal from Oland’s phone was received from the cellular tower at 1 Brunswick Square, in Saint John’s uptown on July 6.

The last location of Oland’s phone was near a cellular tower at the Riverside Country Club, located at 2524 Rothesay Rd., in the neighbouring suburb of Rothesay, the documents show.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The time of that ping at Riverside Country Club is very crucial.



jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 04:50:26 PM
True, but we need to know the technical reasons as to why RO's cell would ping at Riverside County Club at the time that it did.  Also, did the ping coincide with the GF's phone call to him?  If so, can it be proved that a ping registered at said tower location and at said recorded time would absolutely put the location of said device physically within a geographically defined area?  If so, would that geographically defined area be within the area that DO admitted to have being in at the time?  If so, and that area determined is on or around the Fox Farm Road / Mackay Highway exchange, the Renforth Wharf, or points eastward along Rothesay Road then one of two things must have happened. Richard left the office soon after Dennis and made a quick(?) trip to Rothesay or 2) The murderer took the cell phone with him/her and drove towards Rothesay.  So, the time of the 'ping' becomes vital as does the time of the GF's phone call which history suggests was around 6:30pm.  If the ping is also around 6:30pm, and experts can narrow down and/or prove the geographic boundaries of that ping then I think that this is potentially a move towards a checkmate.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 06:29:28 PM
All is a possibility, re: ping of location of Rick's cell phone.

Defense will have experts, no doubt, that will be able to give an explanation.

Then we may have the problem of The Note:  Diane texted Richard  Did you get my note?
He texted back Yes, it is on my desk.

Search warrants on Dennis/ home, in which law enforcement spent 8 hours, in amongst the many items seized was A note.

We do not know what significance this note has, if any, but odd that a note should be listed in the items seized.

jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 27, 2015, 07:32:45 PM
Yes jb--the note found in a purple purse per search warrant is interesting.

I haven't gotten into the cell phone evidence at this time.  Once the defense questioned the timing of Davidson's tests, I zoned out.  Not my forte, and I will wait to hear member's comments on this when hopefully further evidence is presented.

There are a few things that I learned in the past two days, as follows:

Judge's directions to the Jury:

--Any statement that a witness makes to police, at the time of their investigation into the murder, is considered "hearsay"!  The jury is to consider only the "court testimony" from those witnesses.  I find this rule flawed for more than one reason. For one, how is a witness expected to remember exactly what happened years before, and for another, the witness has been exposed to media reports for years, which could influence his recall.

So it is up to the defense lawyer to bring up a witness's original police statement, if it differs from their court testimony.  This has happened with the landlord's original statement to LE, and his subsequent change of time of when he heard the thumps in his court testimony.

--The jury decides what person or what car has been shown on security videos. As RubyRose has noted, the video expert wouldn't confirm ANYTHING, but the jurors are expected to make a decision on this critical video evidence.

The defense is banking on security videos to prove that Dennis was telling the truth about when he arrived and when he left Dick's office. Apparently, those videos are inconclusive due to the poor quality.  I wish we could see them.  The defense is also banking on the testimony of when the thumps were heard from two witnesses, and have two videos (showing the same time stamp?) to show that Dennis was not near Dick's office when the thumping was heard. (per one witness now).

I do have some questions about security videos.  Why are companies paying for crappy video images that do not hold up in Court, and how does a video expert, who knows this, continue to get paid to come to Court, to testify that he can't make out those crappy security videos? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 07:43:28 PM
Video/image expert could not verify anything the prosecution put up either.  Correct me if I am wrong, but this was a prosecution witness, and am sure they had put up their own images, re Dennis shirt, shorts and jacket.  So, what was the point? 

One would think that the prosecution would have vetted their witness before putting him on the stand. (Time and money paid for by the taxpayers.)

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 27, 2015, 08:01:22 PM
I have the same questions regarding the video expert. Why would they hire, fly in, put him up in hotel with living expenses, pay him for his work when they should have known he couldn't verify/confirm anything. Surely the prosecution knew this by phone or written report. Why would they put him on the stand? There must be a video expert in Canada who could have said the same thing.

Would anyone know if the yacht club which is mentioned has video surveillance? Can anyone enter as they please or is there a key or key card for members?

It is odd to me Dennis didn't make a point of going to work that morning if he is the one who did this. So many questions and I am finding the trial frustratingly slow and seems they only are there from 9:30 to 4 including a lunch break and two other breaks plus the lawyering interruptions. Perhaps this is only how much a jury can sit/take in one day.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 08:13:08 PM
The latest videos have been posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-video-alibi-1.3290384

I've reviewed it and  (assuming that is indeed his car and him) the only thing I can say at this time is that who every it is, appears to lean into his car through the driver's door, lean in and do something, then remove his outer garment as he moves toward the back of the car, definitely does some 'business' in the trunk compartment, and then dons another(?) outer garment in the vicinity of the driver door before finally sitting down and into the driver's seat.  I'm speaking of the final Thandi's parking lot video segment.  It appears to take him approximately 2 minutes before he finally sits himself in the driver's seat.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 08:14:57 PM
Have Faith - yes the trial is very slow - here is the submission of analysis by expert given to the police force.  I have not had time to read it. 
Perhaps you can glean something out of it, worth commenting on for us.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2487565/oland-fredericks-report.pdf

jb
Thanks Snowhite for the video.  Will look at it, for certain.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 27, 2015, 08:39:33 PM
-Any statement that a witness makes to police, at the time of their investigation into the murder, is considered "hearsay"!  The jury is to consider only the "court testimony" from those witnesses.

I believe he was referring to witness statements recorded in investigators notes. Any recorded testimony or affidavits made during the investigation can be submitted into evidence. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
The latest videos have been posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-video-alibi-1.3290384

I've reviewed it and  (assuming that is indeed his car and him) the only thing I can say at this time is that who every it is, appears to lean into his car through the driver's door, lean in and do something, then remove his outer garment as he moves toward the back of the car, definitely does some 'business' in the trunk compartment, and then dons another(?) outer garment in the vicinity of the driver door before finally sitting down and into the driver's seat.  I'm speaking of the final Thandi's parking lot video segment.  It appears to take him approximately 2 minutes before he finally sits himself in the driver's seat.

Thanks for this. I do notice he is not carrying the red bag when leaving from work (at least I assume this part of the video with the glass doors is him leaving from work at 5:08) but is carrying what looks like a small box?

I didn't see the Kent or Canadian Tire or the service station videos of the morning after though. Did I miss them or are they not there? Thanks.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 27, 2015, 08:53:30 PM
The discrepancies with the time stamps from the video cameras could produce some problems.  The article does not specifically identify the tape from Thandi's as being the one that is out by 58 minutes but if it is, that could make a huge difference in the timeline.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-video-alibi-1.3290384

It`s tape from the parking lot beside Thandis that`s behind an hour. The defence caught that error and notified the prosecution. Another miss by investigators. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 08:55:25 PM
No, they don't appear to have been included as of yet.  I'm sure they will surface in the near future.  I didn't look too carefully at the items he was carrying when leaving.  I thought, in passing, that they might possibly be paperbacks and then I remembered he said that he and his wife both read before they turned out the lights that night.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 09:30:19 PM
Could either of you give an approx time video running to see what you are seeing?

Was Dennis parked in that lot or on the street in front of lot?

Thanks - Eye :( Glasses for me!!!

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 27, 2015, 09:36:49 PM
At Thandi's he is parked on the camera side of the street and just to the left of the parking lot entrance.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 27, 2015, 11:40:28 PM
Thank you Snowhite.  Yes, I saw it.  But to me, I see a grey blob by the drivers side.
No distinguishing features, of car or person. That is if we are looking at the same thing.

I can't see anyone accepting that video scene as evidence.

More to come.....Hopefully tomorrow, court will sit for a full day.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 07:35:13 AM
Thank you Snowhite.  Yes, I saw it.  But to me, I see a grey blob by the drivers side.
No distinguishing features, of car or person. That is if we are looking at the same thing.

I can't see anyone accepting that video scene as evidence.

More to come.....Hopefully tomorrow, court will sit for a full day.

jb

Surely, then, the Jury must be tested for adequate eyesight? Otherwise, important evidence might go unnoticed. Will be interesting to see what other details members can glean from the frames of that clip. I might bring a car/VW expert in to testify and see what they could offer off up / ascertain as to the features of the car that pulled up and parked there. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 28, 2015, 08:33:34 AM
I just watched that video.   Agree that you can see a car pull up, park and someone moving around it.   Can't tell who or what type of car at all...the camera is really focused on the parking lot so IMHO that video is useless.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 10:20:15 AM
According to today's testimony, it was the secretary who discovered that Dick's iphone was missing on the 9th.  Dick was murdered sometime on the 6th.

So.... there is a three day period when it could have been sitting on Dicks desk, and others may have taken it?  Is that what the defense is alluding to?

SL mentioned in trial -( one in area dealing in antique and classic cars) .one and the same?
Dennis refurbished classic cars as a hobby = No?  So what is the issue here? SL pall bearer at Dick's funeral.

Yes, I am certain Dennis was carrying books when he left his office bldg. All the more reason to put them in the re-usable shopping bag that he had in the trunk of his car. Were these books dealing in family heritage, or for general reading for he and his wife?

The police had continued investigating Dennis up to a few months prior to trial.
They really honed in on him - right from the start in my opinion.
So far very little evidence produced - with one exception - Dna on brown jacket, in my estimation.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 28, 2015, 10:41:29 AM
SL mentioned in trial -( one in area dealing in antique and classic cars) .one and the same?
Dennis refurbished classic cars as a hobby = No?  So what is the issue here? SL pall bearer at Dick's funeral.
My comments only:

Yes, SL grew up in Rothesay, was one of the yacht club kids there, and is a long time family acquaintance. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 11:37:36 AM
RobertJones

Brooker eventually invites Maureen Adamson in to help in the search to see if she can notice anything is missing.

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon
As a result, were looking for "documentation" of Richard Oland's iPhone, his will, a log book and genealogy book, he says. Left around 3pm

RobertJones
She mentions a missing cell phone, a will and a genealogy log book that she had left for Dennis to pick up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know the cell phone is missing, and that Dennis took the log book (re family history) to give to his mother, but .... is the will missing? If I am reading this correctly, it is.
Who would know where that will is kept? Was there, by all appearances a disturbing of files, in drawers, cabinets, etc after the murder - or was it sitting in plain view on Dick's desk (He did have a meeting regarding his estate that morning)
/jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 03:11:20 PM
Depends on what will they speak of?  Richard's will or some other document?  A newly amended will or just a photocopy of an existing, non altered one?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 28, 2015, 03:39:54 PM
Sorry, I'm going back a few pages..But..Snowhite, you said the redbag was bugging you...and you gave a few possibilities for carrying it.
You mentioned $900 leather briefcases, which I'm sure many business people still carry. I know I wouldn't want my nice leather briefcase confiscated for any reason...and...I certainly wouldn't want to contaminate it with blood.
Also, the red reusable grocery bag could have blood on it and no one would notice, in passing.  It could be easily discarded and replaced with another for presenting as evidence. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 03:55:46 PM
Jobo, the $900.00 reference was to a receipt for a Hugo Boss jacket revealed by the Defense. I was off a bit, it was over $1000.00. Here is the quote & link:

Quote
Miller introduced one of Oland's Visa statements from 2009, which were part of his financial records seized by police. The statement shows an April 27 purchase from Hugo Boss in Orlando, Fla., for $860.47 US ($1,079.26 Cdn).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-murder-jacket-video-statement-1.3285699


Once again, I know times have changed and any bag can & will do, at times, and often a weather dependent decision, too.  But it did jump out at me that someone who carries an umbrella, has a decent shoe inventory, and designer sports jackets, would use a green grocery bag as a method of transport for significant documents.  My green bags are usually a bit iffy at best with all the fish & produce purchased.  Just an observation and probably means absolutely nothing at all. 



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 28, 2015, 04:24:29 PM
Perhaps he bought more than that jacket at Hugo Boss? And carrying a briefcase, maybe only when he visits a client or needs to work from home? He was not carrying the red bag or a brief case with him when he left the office that day, just those books. So the red bag was in his car.

Edited to add: to my knowledge there was no mention of these books being found in RO's office.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 04:52:24 PM
The reusable bag - when was it first seen and first mentioned?

Maureen's husband, said that he saw a man in a brown jacket similar to Dennis enter the bldg.  Did he mention a re-usable bag?  Did Maureen mention that Dennis came in with such a bag? I don't recall now :-\.

I know the bag was mentioned by a witness who saw him at the wharf. Is that when the bag first came up.  ? ? And we did see Dennis on the sidewalk in front of the restaurant with the bag./jb



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 28, 2015, 05:01:36 PM
The reusable bag - when was it first seen and first mentioned?

Maureen's husband, said that he saw a man in a brown jacket similar to Dennis enter the bldg.  Did he mention a re-usable bag?  Did Maureen mention that Dennis came in with such a bag? I don't recall now :-\.

I know the bag was mentioned by a witness who saw him at the wharf. Is that when the bag first came up.  ? ? And we did see Dennis on the sidewalk in front of the restaurant with the bag./jb
Mr. Adamson mentioned the bag in his testimony.

Just a reminder that Dennis is charged with second degree murder and thus one would presume the prosecution believes he left the office without any thought or plan of killing anyone. Must not the crown believe it was a spur of the moment murder, or relatively so, and that what he left Brunswick Square with was irrelevant, except for his clothing?   

 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 28, 2015, 05:08:14 PM
Perhaps he bought more than that jacket at Hugo Boss?

The receipt for a Hugo Boss purchase entered into evidence sounds too low for two jackets to me. How`s that for use of to`s?  It would be unusual for a guy to purchase 2 good jackets that are particularly similar, though many of us have too many dark grey or navy suits!

I have a bit more than a half dozen Hugo Boss suits and jackets and the suits are over a grand and the sport jackets not that much below. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 05:09:33 PM
xposted with BaySailor. No, we don't really know. We only see him crossing by Thandi's entrance camera with the bag.  One thing is for certain, there is a ton of room inside those bags and it's highly unusual to carry 'just' papers within, especially since he tells us that he forgot many of those family roots papers back at the office. WHAT ELSE WAS IN THAT MYSTERIOUS BAG!? The detective never asked him what was in the bag, because the interview was carried out before the bag was ever known about. Blueriver raises an interesting point about the books (do we all agree they are books in his hand while leaving the office?).  It appears that he is headed for home.  His wife is not well, the day is over, and he has some leisure reading in hand.  Edit: As per BaySailor - Mr. Adamson sees him with Red Bag on his second visit to the office. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 28, 2015, 05:19:02 PM
Quote
One thing is for certain, there is a ton of room inside those bags and it's highly unusual to carry 'just' papers within, especially since he tells us that he forgot many of those family roots papers back at the office.

We can't really be sure it would be unusual for him.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 28, 2015, 05:27:10 PM


Here is the reference to what Mr. Adamson witnessed:

Her husband, William, was parked outside waiting to pick her up. As he sat in his car, Mr. Adamson saw someone matching the man’s description enter the building, the court documents say.

“He did not see this person’s face and therefore did not recognize him. The male was carrying a red bag, similar to the environmentally friendly grocery shopping bags; bag was not empty but not overly full nor heavy,” the police said in their warrant application

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/oland-murder-linked-to-big-debt-police-believe/article4593814/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/oland-murder-linked-to-big-debt-police-believe/article4593814/)

Quote:

"The detective never asked him what was in the bag, because the interview was carried out before the bag was ever known about."


Const. Davidson clearly asked Dennis if he carried the bag in with him on his second visit to RO's office.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 05:38:25 PM
Okay, thank you - I stand corrected.  Was he asked to describe what was in the bag? 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 28, 2015, 06:10:22 PM
I'll paraphrase what I recall..Dennis got to the top of the stairs (the first visit) and said he "shuffled through the bag", and realized that he had forgotten something at his office.  I think it was a green book.  When discussing his second visit, Davidson asked him if he brought the bag in again.  It was evident that the bag contained his genealogy material, and I don't think Davidson asked him if there was anything else in the bag.



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 06:35:02 PM
Quote
One thing is for certain, there is a ton of room inside those bags and it's highly unusual to carry 'just' papers within, especially since he tells us that he forgot many of those family roots papers back at the office.

We can't really be sure it would be unusual for him.

True, just unusual, period, to have a bag of such volume for family roots 'stuff', especially given how he explains it.   Listen to what he says at 1:38:25 .. 'Go up the stairs and had my bag of STUFF and I forgot my STUFF ..ummmm SOME OF MY STUFF so I left and drove & went to go back to the office and oops don't need THAT STUFF so I went back ....'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-statement-1.3281699



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 06:42:14 PM
Quote:

"The detective never asked him what was in the bag, because the interview was carried out before the bag was ever known about."


Const. Davidson clearly asked Dennis if he carried the bag in with him on his second visit to RO's office.

What time of the interview is that? After Dennis mentions, himself, about the bag used to carry 'stuff'?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 28, 2015, 07:00:21 PM
Quote:

"The detective never asked him what was in the bag, because the interview was carried out before the bag was ever known about."


Const. Davidson clearly asked Dennis if he carried the bag in with him on his second visit to RO's office.

What time of the interview is that? After Dennis mentions, himself, about the bag used to carry 'stuff'?


I believe it is much later in the interview.  Sorry, but I am not interested in going through the interview again right now.  I might get time later on.   :)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 07:41:05 PM
Thanks HF for clarification as to contents of  bag.

Yes, he was carrying little books with him in his hand as he left the office.

To  me, it is entirely possible that genealogy of family lines would be in text books.

  Dennis doesn't strike me as a peacock.

Missing a few buttons on one sleeve of jacket, would probably not concern him.. and doubt if he would even notice.  A car with dents here and there, etc, would not concern him either. To my way of thinking,   he strikes me as being  that "kind of  a guy". All the while having lovely and pleasant mannerisms, and looking great when he carries an umbrella!!

Carrying "stuff" in a bag might make sense to him  especially if a}. he could not locate his briefcase at that moment. or b.} it was full of other stuff. :)

jb


 


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 08:13:20 PM
Starting at about 1:39:15 he starts to describe the visiting sequence again. @1:40:15 (approx.) Davidson asks what else he had (in the bag)... probably because he's now suspicious about the several references to 'stuff'.  Dennis is relentless with this word  .... "well .... I have stacks of stuff. I have the stuff from (stutters noticeably) Devon that he wanted and I have this ah green book that somebody wrote back in the early 70s that somebody wrote and that ah I was going to give him and that you know I left that in my office and ah that was thing I wanted the most and ah I wanted to get some pictures from him that I had given him from Maureen several months ago." 

So he said had he 'stacks of stuff' which is probably more in reference to his overall family roots database rather than what he had in the bag on that particular day.  He does say that he had the old family will and the stuff from Devon. He also states that his father was most interested in the will but he really wanted to show him the green book which he left at the office.  It looks like from the video clip of him leaving his office that anything he brought to his Father's office on that day, including the carry bag was either already in the car or at another location.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 08:27:00 PM
Thank you snowhite - much appreciate your going through the interview to find these statements, I missed that - and concentrated on other parts of it. Have only viewed it twice.
There  an abundance of information within the interview to digest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He probably had the "stuff in the trunk of his car".  When they searched the trunk of his car, it was full of papers, receipts, etc. All of it having some importance to him. Great storage area on wheels.  :)

His father was also a "keeper of stuff".  Maureen herself said that "we like to keep things", in an apologetic but pleasant way, when referring to Dick's office.
Heavens, in one photo, I saw a banjo on the floor, leaning up against "stuff".

Like father, like son - in that way.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 08:38:49 PM
Yeah, it's a convenient word under the circumstances.   If I were LE, I would do one thing.  Recall Maureen and ask her if she'd seen that carry bag before.  Dennis mentions in his statement (1:08:05) that 'the last number of months, I've been going over and giving him my family history stuff .... '.  So, we know that these visits have been on a regular basis.  Keeping in mind his slightly curious statement as posted earlier "'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'. Well if he often went to his office to discuss family roots, what happened on that day to make it any different?  I digress.   Anyway, it should be very easy to find out either by confirmation from office staff, or from possible recorded video if that carry bag was a consistent/normal means of porting his latest finds up to the office.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 08:45:32 PM
quote Snowhite:

Quote
It should be very easy to find out either by confirmation from office staff, or from possible recorded video if that carry bag was a consistent/normal means of taking his latest finds up to the office.

Why, always that bag, maybe he carried things up in different bags, or a briefcase, or another time a box?

But I agree, Maureen should be recalled to verify a few things.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 08:57:53 PM
quote Snowhite:

Quote
It should be very easy to find out either by confirmation from office staff, or from possible recorded video if that carry bag was a consistent/normal means of taking his latest finds up to the office.

Why, always that bag, maybe he carried things up in different bags, or a briefcase, or another time a box?



jb



Why so much paper work in this day and age? When a Scan, PDF file, link, USB Flash Drive, email are the norm & suffice.  So many genealogical sites online these days and I have to assume that's where he was doing all his research.


The bag contents are crucial!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 09:00:06 PM
quote snowhite. " So, we know that these visits have been on a regular basis.  Keeping in mind his slightly curious statement as posted earlier "'Until I went over to the office, it was a very typical day'. Well if he often went to his office to discuss family roots, what happened on that day to make it any different? "

Now that is the big question!

Why all the paper?  I remember Dennis saying that he had to write alot of the research down for his father.  Perhaps Dick, liked it on paper.

Good question though.

Frustrating wondering about the mysteries that may have been in that bag.
I imagine you are thinking of a weapon?  I have tossed that around, and I have a feeling now that since the bag was an open bag, and since he dropped things off from it, one would notice a heavy object in it.

First of all the bag would not swing - as it did when we viewed it outside of the restaurant.
It would make a noise of some kind, when he sat it down, etc. 
I would sense it - something a little heavy at the bottom of the bag. I am sure if someone brought such a bag into my home.

jb



Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 09:23:50 PM
Frustrating wondering about the mysteries that may have been in that bag.
I imagine you are thinking of a weapon?  I have tossed that around, and I have a feeling now that since the bag was an open bag, and since he dropped things off from it, one would notice a heavy object in it.

First of all the bag would not swing - as it did when we viewed it outside of the restaurant.
It would make a noise of some kind, when he sat it down, etc. 
I would sense it - I am sure if someone brought such a bag into my home.

jb


First of all, a drywall hammer is not heavy. Average 14 inches and 14 ounces. That's why they probably felt a need to hit him so many times and to make sure he was dead.  Whoever it was, did not want him coming back to life and able to identify him because by all accounts the perp was well known to RO.  Disagree about any bag sway, too.  A hammer laying in the bottom of the bag, would start to act like a pendulum with any walking momentum, perhaps more so than an empty bag or one stuffed uniformly  with paper work.  The bag he is carrying looks to have plenty of girth in the bottom half, as well.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 28, 2015, 10:07:36 PM

Why so much paper work in this day and age? When a Scan, PDF file, link, USB Flash Drive, email are the norm & suffice.  So many genealogical sites online these days and I have to assume that's where he was doing all his research.


I have found that the online sites such as ancestry.com only go so far when researching records from centuries past, and one has to go to locally written books, church records, burial records, and other such things which have yet to be uploaded to the net.

I too am curious as to whether he commonly used the red bag as a tote, and also as to whether there was any drywall/roofing construction or repair going on in the area. As I mentioned earlier, if someone had planned to bring a murder weapon to a persons place intending to use it as a weapon it is 1st degree murder, not second as Dennis is charged with.   
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 10:35:13 PM

I too am curious as to whether he commonly used the red bag as a tote, and also as to whether there was any drywall/roofing construction or repair going on in the area. As I mentioned earlier, if someone had planned to bring a murder weapon to a persons place intending to use it as a weapon it is 1st degree murder, not second as Dennis is charged with.

Whether it was discovered amongst stuff in a carry-all bag or along a window sill at the decisive moment is not an easy event to pinpoint  and in many scenarios could come with a very thin line attached. The decision for the charge laid may be more about what they can present/prove rather than what they believe actually happened. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 28, 2015, 10:35:38 PM
Quote
First of all, a drywall hammer is not heavy. Average 14 inches and 14 ounces. That's why they probably felt a need to hit him so many times and to make sure he was dead.  Whoever it was, did not want him coming back to life and able to identify him because by all accounts the perp was well known to RO.  Disagree about any bag sway, too.  A hammer laying in the bottom of the bag, would start to act like a pendulum with any walking momentum, perhaps more so than an empty bag or one stuffed uniformly  with paper work.  The bag he is carrying looks to have plenty of girth in the bottom half, as well.

A regular claw hammer is about 16 oz. Only about 2 oz heavier than an average drywall hammer. Most of us have handled one at some point, if only for hanging pictures, doing light repair....or whatever. It is not hard to imagine that even one blow could do a lot of damage. Personally, I feel that the amount of blows they dealt had to do more with rage. Often times when there is such rage we also see a personal connection between murderer and victim.

I also use re-usable shopping bags. If I were to imagine a hammer laying in the bottom of a bag it would seem to me that it would pull the bottom of the bag into an unusual shape that would be noticeable. The bottom would no longer appear to be flat imo.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 28, 2015, 10:44:56 PM
Quote
First of all, a drywall hammer is not heavy. Average 14 inches and 14 ounces. That's why they probably felt a need to hit him so many times and to make sure he was dead.  Whoever it was, did not want him coming back to life and able to identify him because by all accounts the perp was well known to RO.  Disagree about any bag sway, too.  A hammer laying in the bottom of the bag, would start to act like a pendulum with any walking momentum, perhaps more so than an empty bag or one stuffed uniformly  with paper work.  The bag he is carrying looks to have plenty of girth in the bottom half, as well.

A regular claw hammer is about 16 oz. Only about 2 oz heavier than an average drywall hammer. Most of us have handled one at some point, if only for hanging pictures, doing light repair....or whatever. It is not hard to imagine that even one blow could do a lot of damage. Personally, I feel that the amount of blows they dealt had to do more with rage. Often times when there is such rage we also see a personal connection between murderer and victim.

I also use re-usable shopping bags. If I were to imagine a hammer laying in the bottom of a bag it would seem to me that it would pull the bottom of the bag into an unusual shape that would be noticeable. The bottom would no longer appear to be flat imo.

Anything is possible.   Yup, rage or a rookie not knowing how much it would take to kill a person dead.  The video is not clear enough to tell, but if the weapon was wrapped in a garment/cloth, then the weight would be more distributed along the bottom of the bag.  It 'looks' to me like the bottom half of the bag is full with 'stuff'. 14" along the bottom is about max for those bags though, a diagonal placement is also possible.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 28, 2015, 10:59:30 PM
Snowhite:
Quote
The decision for the charge laid may be more about what they can present/prove rather than the what they believe actually happened.

Pardon the pun, but you hit the nail on the head.  It is the accrued circumstantial evidence, of the accused' behaviour, coupled with his  financial situation, and the dna on his jacket that has led to 2nd degree murder.

It was The Interview, on the day after his father's murder, that made him the main focus of their investigation.  And they never let up.

The best defense, comes from a strong offense.  And so far, the defense has been able to shoot most of their evidence  down.  Showing the incompetence of the force is huge  and it has brought some success. imo.

jb


Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 28, 2015, 11:40:08 PM
Snowhite:
Quote
The decision for the charge laid may be more about what they can present/prove rather than the what they believe actually happened.

Pardon the pun, but you hit the nail on the head.  It is the accrued circumstantial evidence, of the accused' behaviour, coupled with his  financial situation, and the dna on his jacket that has led to 2nd degree murder.


I entirely disagree. To my knowledge, and I have followed this case closely, there has been no evidence, anywhere, that this murder could be or might have been a premeditated act. All evidence I have seen suggests a murder of rage in a small window of opportunity and the charges reflect that, not the defendants wealth, connections, or anything else. Having a strained and difficult relationship with a domineering father, being in difficult financial straights, or being angry with a father`s affair do not add up to premeditation. Neither does lying about or confusing what one was wearing on the day of a murder suggest that. To date there has been zero factual or circumstantial evidence that Dennis wanted his father gone or may have planned anything. I would happily stand corrected, but I just don`t see it at this point. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 01:44:20 AM
Baysailor, I agree.  My comments were directed towards how the police thought after the interview, and how they went after Dennis.  In fact they had a forensic accountant checking his financial history going over the previous  6 years.

Accrued circumstantial evidence to the nth degree. If one goes looking for things to be held against a person, it can be found. A person's standing in the community should not have any bearing on it. and I never suggested that it did.

Yes, it appears this was a sudden rage, the tool was handy. something easy in reach, and the murder took place.
The tool, according to police and it was also stated in trial that it might have been a drywall hammer.

I wonder if the secretary was ever asked if she saw something similar laying around?

The last known person to see Richard was his son.  That does not necessarily make his son a murderer. As you know, the last person to see a deceased is usually put on a list of suspects.
Unfortunately, they more or less stopped at Dennis, so it seems. Yes, they did on the sly obtain dna from Richard's brother and his friend.  But other than that.......

We don't know who else might have paid Richard a visit, after Dennis left. Might even have watched Dennis leave.

So far, I cannot see enough evidence to even think of convicting him of murder.
Nothing is holding up in court, in my view.....so far.

jb
 

 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 02:09:27 AM
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dennis-oland-charged-with-second-degree-murder-in-father-s-death-1.1541046

Well worth watching.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 29, 2015, 05:49:53 AM
I entirely disagree. To my knowledge, and I have followed this case closely, there has been no evidence, anywhere, that this murder could be or might have been a premeditated act. All evidence I have seen suggests a murder of rage in a small window of opportunity and the charges reflect that, not the defendants wealth, connections, or anything else. Having a strained and difficult relationship with a domineering father, being in difficult financial straights, or being angry with a father`s affair do not add up to premeditation. Neither does lying about or confusing what one was wearing on the day of a murder suggest that. To date there has been zero factual or circumstantial evidence that Dennis wanted his father gone or may have planned anything. I would happily stand corrected, but I just don`t see it at this point.

 Actually, I might tend to agree with you if the weapon wasn't such a conundrum to the team that inspected the body. What are the odds of finding such a multi-faceted, opportunistic tool within your grasp at that decisive moment? Oh, looky what I found!, just what I needed!!  It's arguably the perfect concealed blunt/sharp instrument combined into one.  And coincidence, or not, happens to fit perfectly into a grocery green bag.  We still have yet to hear from RO's GF.  She may well have something further to add to the state of the affair(s). 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 29, 2015, 06:59:38 AM
Quote
A woman told Saint John police she and her husband were in their van at Renforth wharf on July 6, 2011, when she noticed a well-dressed man, whom police identify as being Dennis, walking "very briskly" towards the wharf. Barbara Murray said the man stopped at the beginning of the wharf and picked something up, went to the end of the wharf and sat down. He then took something red out of a bag, wrapped the object he had picked up, put it in the bag, then walked briskly back.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/documents-shed-new-light-on-oland-murder-investigation-1.1699119

Then there is this witness.  I'd be interested to have her recant and cross-examined.  No real need for Dennis to walk the full length of the wharf with a bag that contains (by his account) genealogical papers on that day and when he was admittedly tight for time.   On the other hand, I find her description dubious in that it would be very difficult to notice the color of a small object quickly pulled out of a bag at that distance, especially if the sun was out and becoming a disadvantage.  But perhaps she had field glasses in her possession.  Funny she would notice the color of said object briefly pulled from a bag and make no mention of the color of his clothes.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jobo on October 29, 2015, 10:46:17 AM
If Dennis went to the wharf to check to see if his kids were swimming there...why would he even take a bag with him?  Why not leave it in the vehicle?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 29, 2015, 11:35:37 AM
Saint Johnners react to police investigation as testimony unfolds throughout Oland murder trial
Reaction is mixed on the streets of Saint John to testimony about how police handled Richard Oland killing

By Alison Chiasson, CBC News Posted: Oct 29, 2015 7:01 AM AT| Last Updated: Oct 29, 2015 7:01 AM AT


Reaction is mixed in Saint John to testimony about how the police handled evidence and the crime scene at Richard Oland's killing.

Details from lead investigator Const. Stephen Davidson's testimony have brought questions about the police force's competency in the high-profile case.

Since the trial began in September, testimony of potential mishandling of the investigation by the police has dominated the news.

The latest controversy saw Davidson giving testimony that he jumped out a back door from Richard Oland's office, while evidence showed there were steps. Still Davidson stuck to his story.

While it will be up to the jury to decide which version of events it chooses to believe, people in the city following the trial are forming their own opinions.

Cathy Urquhart said the details of the potential back door escape route for the killer would have been crucial for the prosecution.

"The fact that the officer didn't know that there were steps to the back door, that he had to jump down and climb back up? Come on ... something's wrong," said Urquhart.

"I think they would have been done a long time ago had they done the job properly," she added.

Barber shop owner Blaine Harris pointed to several other flubs in the testimony, saying they are adding up and making it easier for the defence.

"You got an incident that happened four years ago, you've got what appears to be a very bungled investigation and you've got evidence that's coming out that if I were sitting on a jury watching it I would say not guilty," said Harris.

The trial has heard that the body of 69 year-old Richard Oland was discovered lying face down on his office floor in a pool of blood, the victim of 45 sharp and blunt force injuries to his head, neck and hands.

The jury has heard police evidence that Oland's son Dennis became a suspect the same day the body was found in July 2011.

The last few weeks in the trial revealed a late mention of the potential murder weapon.

Davidson testified officers passed around the idea that Oland was killed with a drywall hammer.

No weapon was ever found and there was no formal pursuit to rule out a drywall hammer, the court heard.

Danny Hennessey sympathized with the investigators, and said Oland's murder was such a huge event it's no surprise the Saint John police force would struggle.

"I don't know how many constables in Southern New Brunswick would have experienced a violent, brutal homicide," said Hennessey.

"I mean it's like any small town. Give people credit for people to figure out how to do this sort of thing."

Paul Cherry also pointed to the scope of the high-profile murder. "It was such a shocking event and I think that has sort of come through," he said.

"Perhaps the police weren't as well-equipped as they might be to handle this type of investigation."

There have been 27 days of testimony in the trial. It's scheduled for 65 days.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-police-testimony-1.3292996 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-police-testimony-1.3292996)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 29, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
If Dennis went to the wharf to check to see if his kids were swimming there...why would he even take a bag with him?  Why not leave it in the vehicle?

Good question jobo....why would he even take a bag? Perhaps we'll learn the answer to this, and many other questions, as things proceed.....hopefully..
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 12:45:14 PM
Today, it was an agreed statement of facts between prosecutor and defense regarding Dennis being at wharf etc.  To speed up the trial the witness will not be called.  The defense may find some way to answer that question, to clear suspicion of his action.

I have a theory - and that is all that it is -

We know that Dennis texted his daughter and asked her to thank her grandfather for the donation to her basketball team, and she replied that she could not at the moment, as they were going kayaking.

Is it possible that she texted her Dad and said that she left something of hers around the wharf area and would he pick it up on his way home?

So naturally, he would bring the bag.  Stoop down and pick it up and place it in the bag, walk down to the end of the wharf to look for his girls etc, etc, etc.
He may have "hurried away", as he knew that his wife was sick and she wanted him home.

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 29, 2015, 01:45:02 PM

 Actually, I might tend to agree with you if the weapon wasn't such a conundrum to the team that inspected the body. What are the odds of finding such a multi-faceted, opportunistic tool within your grasp at that decisive moment? Oh, looky what I found!, just what I needed!!  It's arguably the perfect concealed blunt/sharp instrument combined into one.  And coincidence, or not, happens to fit perfectly into a grocery green bag.  We still have yet to hear from RO's GF.  She may well have something further to add to the state of the affair(s).
Yes, I think the gf`s testimony will be hard for Dennis`s and his mothers`ears, albeit nothing they haven't heard before.

As to the weapon, I must say I have never seen the block around Canterbury, Princess, and Camarthen Streets being close to fully developed. There are always vacancies it seems, with the odd abandoned floor or building, new stores and businesses are coming and going,  and given virtually all of the block dates from shortly after the Great Fire of 1877, repair work is frequently required  as well. I don`t see it as implausible that roofing or drywall repairs were being done in the area; in fact it almost seems likely there.

Regardless of who you're suspect is, I would think the weapon was picked up local to the area around Dick`s office though I do grant it is possible that someone could choose such an item for a premeditated killing; it does seem a formidably lethal tool.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 29, 2015, 01:53:57 PM
Quote
Regardless of who you're suspect is, I would think the weapon was picked up local to the area around Dick`s office though I do grant it is possible that someone could choose such an item for a premeditated killing; it does seem a formidably lethal tool.

I agree.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 29, 2015, 03:05:33 PM
There are many links on here, so not sure if this has been posted. Feel free to let me know is it has, and I will delete it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/27/no-evidence-dennis-oland-had-a-drywall-hammer-investigator (http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/27/no-evidence-dennis-oland-had-a-drywall-hammer-investigator)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 04:17:17 PM
The brown jacket - hopefully the following will be taken care of by defense, as it can pose a problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-s-dna-profile-matches-blood-on-son-s-jacket-police-say-1.2223831

DNA matches Richard Oland

"The estimated probability of selecting an unrelated individual at random from the Canadian Caucasian population with the same profile was one in 180 million," a sworn affidavit by Sgt. Tony Hayes, of the Saint John Police Force, states.

The jacket’s right sleeve, both cuffs, and chest area all tested positive for blood that matched Richard Oland’s DNA profile, forensic lab results from March 1, 2012, and June 26, 2012, show.

Records from VIP Dry Cleaners show a sports jacket was dropped off at 9:08 a.m. AT on July 8, 2011, along with 18 other items, including another sports jacket, a pair of pants and 16 shirts.

Dennis picked the items up the following day and his wife went in later to pay, the co-owner of the business told police.

Jinhee Choi said staff normally make notes if there are any stains on the garments, but no notes were made for the Oland transaction.

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 29, 2015, 04:26:58 PM


Regardless of who you're suspect is, I would think the weapon was picked up local to the area around Dick`s office though I do grant it is possible that someone could choose such an item for a premeditated killing; it does seem a formidably lethal tool.

I have no idea of the law in N.B. but in many jurisdictions, premeditation may be construed as taking place only seconds before the murder takes place.  With that in mind and imo, DO exhibits some extremely strange behavior upon entering the office building for the first time.  He almost enters but does not & chooses to communicate with no one, he then uses the washroom and leaves. He admittedly has a split mind as to how/where he should proceed at this point. Fight or flight? Fifteen minutes later he is back with a roomy grocery bag that he admittedly carried 'stuff'.  Hypothetical, but it is highly possible that he eavesdropped and overheard a conversation between Dick & Maureen that angered him greatly. Possibly something that pertained to the GF or the family will and a subsequent meeting in the near future. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 29, 2015, 04:34:12 PM
The brown jacket - hopefully the following will be taken care of by defense, as it can pose a problem.

Why would you say that? It is what it is, either RO's DNA or not.  Either the Drycleaner was made aware of and/or noticed fresh bloodstains or not!  Either that was the Oland's normal course of clothes cleaning or not.  I would like to hear the truth to all these dilemmas and let the chips fall where they may.  No 'hope' in the equation at all.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 04:49:54 PM

Obviously, I was not clear.\

It was Richard's dna.  Maureen had said that Dick had a scalp condition and it often bled.

So, hopefully,  let's see what the defense has to further say about it, and let's see what the prosecution puts forward about Dick's scalp condition.

I would like to know the facts about it.

Just for once, I would like to see this trial follow through on each item, rather than hop, skip and jumping all over the place.

Possibilities as to how that blood got onto that jacket is crucial. 


jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: BaySailor on October 29, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
The brown jacket - hopefully the following will be taken care of by defense, as it can pose a problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/richard-oland-s-dna-profile-matches-blood-on-son-s-jacket-police-say-1.2223831

Dennis picked the items up the following day and his wife went in later to pay, the co-owner of the business told police.

Jinhee Choi said staff normally make notes if there are any stains on the garments, but no notes were made for the Oland transaction.

Interesting jb, that is the first I read of any comment from the drycleaner. That would bolster the defences argument that the amount of blood on the jacket was relatively small compared to what one might expect to be on RO`s  killer`s clothing.

On the other hand the medical examiner saw no unusual lesions on the victims head which discredits their argument that blood on the jacket may have been transferred through the course of normal conversation or greeting. 

The comment around Dennis, as he approached Dick`s office,  potentially hearing some part of a conversation between Maureen and Dick and being upset is an interesting thought, though I would have expected Maureen to have been questioned on that by the prosecution earlier on in the trial. To expand on Snowhite`s idea, I suppose he could also have overheard, as he approached, Dick on the phone discussing something that could set him off, whether it be his father is talking to his lawyer, wife, insurance agent, daughter, whatever.   

I know both have had some issues with hearing, so while Dick might not hear anyone come in and eavesdrop from the outer office, whether Dennis could hear anything from there might be questionable too! 

What a case!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 05:14:57 PM
Yes, it was said that no unusual lesions were found on his scalp.  Which technically would be true.  Difficult to look for those with his head smashed in. So the answer would be, I didn't see any?

The spots were very small, and this is confusing. One would expect more blood on the jacket, as well as elsewhere on DO's apparel.

Yes, snowhite's take on possibility of eavesdropping interesting.  Yes, secretary should be asked.  Too late now?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 05:25:59 PM
http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/5952231-defence-focus-on-dna-blood-at-oland-trial/

Oct 08, 2015  | Vote0   0
Defence focus on DNA, blood at Oland trial
SAINT JOHN, N.B. - A forensic identification officer with the Saint John police department says no blood or DNA from Dennis Oland was found on Richard Oland or at the crime scene where the 69-year-old businessman was killed in July 2011.

The defence resumed its cross-examination of Sgt. Mark Smith on Thursday after he told the jury a day earlier that the scene of Oland's murder was one of the bloodiest he had ever encountered.

Dennis Oland is accused of killing his father, whose body was found in a pool of blood in his Saint John office on July 7, 2011. He has pleaded not guilty to a charge of second-degree murder.

Defence lawyer Gary Miller has focused questions on the crime scene and the large amount of blood spatter and the likelihood that the killer would have blood on them.

Under questioning Thursday, Smith said no blood was found on many items introduced as evidence.

"Am I correct that you never received any information whatsoever by way of reports or otherwise that any blood or DNA identified as Richard Oland's was found on the following items seized from my client's residence on July 14, 2011 — namely shoes, pants, shirts, blue shorts, a garbage pail in the bathroom at his residence and his cellphone?" Miller asked.

"Correct," Smith replied.

Smith also agreed that he didn't receive any confirmation of Richard Oland's blood in Dennis Oland's Volkswagen Golf, a reusable grocery bag or its contents from the trunk of the car, or on a logbook that the younger Oland had been told to take from his father's office on July 6, 2011.

"Am I also correct that you never received any information whatsoever by reports or otherwise that any blood or DNA identified as Dennis Oland's was found on Richard Oland's body or at the crime scene at 52 Canterbury Street?" Miller asked.

"Yes, none was located," Smith replied.

Smith testified Wednesday that some of the 40 blows to the businessman's head were caused by a hammer-type instrument while others were inflicted with a blade-like weapon. The blade-like weapon left wounds that were six to seven centimetres long, while the hammer-like impacts were round and about three centimetres in diameter, he said.

Those wounds were described in more detail when pathologist Dr. Ather Naseemuddin testified Thursday.

Naseemuddin performed the examination and autopsy on the body of Richard Oland.

He showed graphic photographs to the court as he described the injuries, one by one. Dennis Oland cast his eyes down the whole time, not looking at the images.

Naseemuddin said most of the injuries to Richard Oland's head and to his hands were made with a sharp blade-like weapon and in some cases they penetrated the bone and the skull was fractured.

On one part of Oland's head, nine wounds were close together and ran parallel with each other.

"They would have been made in rapid succession," Naseemuddin said.

He said six of the injuries to Oland's head were blunt force injuries that left a round mark.

"There was faint cross-hatching on them."

Prosecutor Patrick Wilbur asked Naseemuddin if he could come to a conclusion about the kind of weapon used.

"I can say the injuries were inflicted using two separate surfaces," Naseemuddin replied.

No murder weapon was ever found.

By Kevin Bissett, The Canadian Press
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 29, 2015, 05:54:15 PM
There was no blood or DNA on RO or his office because Dennis, if he did this, was not injured in any way. Although I am not sure if the police ever checked his body.

As far as premeditation goes, 1st degree murder is difficult to prove especially when there is no weapon found so perhaps the police chose to go for the lesser charge to hedge their bets.

So far the trial has been slow (to me) and has not provided any real evidence other than blood DNA on DO's jacket. And it hasn't been stated in court yet by an expert in DNA whose DNA it was.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 29, 2015, 06:12:16 PM
From the above CBC link:

"Am I correct that you never received any information whatsoever by way of reports or otherwise that any blood or DNA identified as Richard Oland's was found on the following items seized from my client's residence on July 14, 2011 — namely shoes, pants, shirts, BLUE SHORTS, a garbage pail in the bathroom at his residence and his cellphone?" Miller asked."  (words bolded by me).

Obviously the shorts worn by Dennis to the Cochrane Market (per security video at 7:38pm, July 6) were the ones sent by LE for blood analysis.  It looks like they were also trying to find blood evidence on what he changed into, to coincide with the time the thumps were heard.  Just a thought.

http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/5952231-defence-focus-on-dna-blood-at-oland-trial/ (http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/5952231-defence-focus-on-dna-blood-at-oland-trial/)
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 29, 2015, 06:19:45 PM
Quote blueriver:

"There was no blood or DNA on RO or his office because Dennis, if he did this, was not injured in any way. Although I am not sure if the police ever checked his body. "

There is no evidence that they checked Dennis's body, which I found surprising since Dennis complained of a sore knee, and was rubbing it, during the recorded interview.   He said he recently injured it while sailing.  Just another LE oversight?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Snowhite on October 29, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Quote blueriver:

"There was no blood or DNA on RO or his office because Dennis, if he did this, was not injured in any way. Although I am not sure if the police ever checked his body. "

There is no evidence that they checked Dennis's body, which I found surprising since Dennis complained of a sore knee, and was rubbing it, during the recorded interview.   He said he recently injured it while sailing.  Just another LE oversight?

Yup, could they have asked him to strip down once he went from witness to suspect?  I would have been curious as to any recent bruise on that knee.  I've hit myself on the knee before while swinging a tool, it doesn't tickle and leaves a mark.  And in the interview he appears to be checking for any swelling by comparing left knee with right knee size(s). A common self diagnosis usually done in the immediate days following  trauma.  Having said that, it would be very easy to knock your knee while sailing and I watched intently to all the videos, especially the one @ Kennebecasis Drugs where it clearly shows his movement and in shorts, and he does not show even a hint of favoring it - not one iota!
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 29, 2015, 06:37:18 PM
Probably an oversight but clearly they should have (I think oversight is too calm a word).  He winced when he stood up to go to the bathroom and sort of adjusted his leg. And his rubbing and pushing on it. Clearly it hurt. And looked like a deep muscle or tendon injury (not that I am a professional in that regard) and could have been a sailing injurty. I believe he said it was fine when he walked but the initial getting up was bad. It made me wonder how he was able to climb the stairs without pain?

The blue shorts? Perhaps police thought he wore them when hiding a murder weapon that night or anything with blood on it and it may have transferred to the shorts. At least they were being thorough. On that.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 07:56:04 PM
I thought of the very same thing today, no limping in any of the videos. None.  So, why would he mention a leg injury to the detective?

Is it possible that he did not have any injury whatsoever, but was setting the stage for some type of questioning, or perhaps a question was asked by the detective, and he answered it, and then later to puncuate his answer, he let on that he had a leg injury?

Is there anything at all  that would have him at a later time state that his knee seizes up - as he winces and limps to the washroom?

Posters who have seen this interview many times, may recognize why he would come up with this, if it is untrue.

He was bending his knees and pulling his legs inward toward the back of the chair - would be difficult to do with a knee or leg injury.
His legs appeared to be very supple to me.  imo

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 29, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
Jb, I had written down some notes about his sore knee.  (video time between 7:39 and & 7:50)

After Dennis left the office at 6:30 (his est. time) he was trying to recall where he went.  Although it is very confusing dialogue, he did state that he walked toward the drugstore at Brunswick Square.  Davidson asked him "Did you go to the drugstore"?  Dennis replied "I don't think so".  This statement made me realize that he was clearly confused as to his recall of his actions.  Make of it what you will.

Blueriver is correct, Dennis did say that his knee felt better when he walked, and this is why he kept walking further than where his car was parked--in the direction of the drugstore. 

Modified to add:

 I thought he implied that he was thinking of going to the drugstore to buy something for his sore knee.  I wonder if he did buy something for it later when he went to the pharmacy with his wife?

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 08:35:42 PM
Thank you Have Faith - was it Dennis who said?

"Dennis did say that his knee felt better when he walked, and this is why he kept walking further than where his car was parked--in the direction of the drugstore."
Dennis actually said it?
jb 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 29, 2015, 08:40:17 PM
Thank you Have Faith - was it Dennis who said?

"Dennis did say that his knee felt better when he walked, and this is why he kept walking further than where his car was parked--in the direction of the drugstore."
Dennis actually said it?
jb


Yes, Dennis said this to Davidson. 
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 08:47:24 PM
The cops would not have a video of him heading to the downtown drugstore, when being interviewed right?

No he did not buy anything for his knee when he was with his wife.  She picked out some type of medicine, I got the impression it was cold medicine, and he went directly to the counter and paid for it.

He also went gardening that night right?

jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: Have faith on October 29, 2015, 09:02:04 PM
He did "heavy" gardening.  His wife had hit rocks when she had been digging in the vegetable garden.  The impression he gave was that he was to dig out some of the rocks. 

Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 29, 2015, 09:22:22 PM
How far away is this drugstore he considered walking to? How long would it take to walk there and back to his car? Hard for me to figure these things out as I don't know east from west or north from south. Does seem odd he didn't buy something for the knee pain with his wife but maybe he had something at home? Who knows. One thought is when he left the office, he saw someone he knew or someone walking towards him so he veered off as, if it was him that did this, he might have had blood dots on his shirt. But, as I said, I don't know the way of the streets there. And, one more thing, I believe he said he parked beside his father's car the first time visit. Wonder why he didn't mention trying to park there again or if the lot was full. Not sure where that parking lot is either.

edited: Although if he had blood spots on his shirt, I would think he would have fastened his jacket at least.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 29, 2015, 09:42:14 PM
Is there a picture of the shirt Dennis wore that night?
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: jellybean on October 29, 2015, 09:50:19 PM
No - just a picture of his jacket used as exhibit.

Sorry, I am no longer buying into the sore knee excuse. Just can't do it.
Digging up rocks is heavy work with spade, and foot and knees.
Can't buy into it.
jb
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: debbiec on October 29, 2015, 09:57:54 PM
Quote
Sorry, I am no longer buying into the sore knee excuse. Just can't do it.
Digging up rocks is heavy work with spade, and foot and knees.
Can't buy into it.
jb

I can't think of a single logical reason (unless I missed something) why saying he had a knee injury, if in fact he did not, would benefit him in any way. I would think to the contrary.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: blueriver on October 29, 2015, 10:10:18 PM
No - just a picture of his jacket used as exhibit.

Sorry, I am no longer buying into the sore knee excuse. Just can't do it.
Digging up rocks is heavy work with spade, and foot and knees.
Can't buy into it.
jb

Was there a description of the shirt other than the color? Would he have worn short sleeve shirts in the summer? If so, perhaps that is why there is no DNA on the cuffs? Air conditioning at work can be cold though so maybe a long sleeve would be worn.
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered | 69 | Saint John
Post by: PandaBearKitty on October 29, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
Honest to goodness, I am trying to follow along with this case.    Getting more confused/muddled every day.
In regards to the knee injury, if it is a real injury caused by boating as he says I'd have to guess it's a soft tissue injury (muscle).   In that case I can say from experience that walking will make it feel better.  Sitting or climbing stairs will be agony.
Gardening -- out of the question completely.    So my thought is the injury is fake.   WHY I have no clue. :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Richard (Dick) Oland | Murdered |