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Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Alberta Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Alberta Locations => Topic started by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 12:55:39 AM

Title: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 12:55:39 AM
Continued from-
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg47386/topicseen.html#msg47386 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg47386/topicseen.html#msg47386)

The McCaan's have been missing now since July 3rd of 2010. Discussions have raged over the months and the original thread has become volumous. Hindsight has always proved best for clarity. So with that in mind perhaps we should take a fresh look at the evidence from that perspective. The search continues but all hope for them to be found alive has long since vanished.

If I were to begin thinking and discussing this again, I would start with a question that no one wanted to ask at first but has since been asked and voiced in multiple ways at different times in relation to various points all along the way. That question is why were the McCaan's killed? Why did they have to die? Theft is not usually a valid reason or motive to kill especially when their motorhome was merely torched a day or so later, credit cards not used, and suv ditched a week or so afterwards.

I approached this with Vader having been identified as a suspect in mind and concluded that the reason they were killed had to do with the McCaan's being able to identify the perps in a conclusive fashion. That led me to contemplating either a planned event in which the perp knew the victim or the other possibility, that the invasion occured in a manner and at a location that the perps could be positively linked to.

For others who have watched these events unfold and just want to see the McCaan's found. Questions linger, why were they killed, why did they have to die?

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2010, 06:50:40 AM
There is several other unsolved murders in the general vicinity between Edmonton and Jasper.   One that comes to mind is the lady from the lookout tower that was murdered-Unsolved.   Another is a woman that died in a trailer fire, I believe in Edson-Unsolved.

Maybe the McCanns are not the first victims. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2010, 08:14:23 AM
I need a big office with a big map.....because I also think there is a geographical link to the crime, the perp's (and his friend's  residences), where the Motorhome was spotted, where the Motorhome was burned, where the SUV was found, where Vader was arrested...   On a map it would show a big triangle (with unequal sides).   I think we need to stay in that area.   I would imagine the cops have one of those maps.  ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 11:03:34 AM
Ahh the big map with all the markers all displayed on one page. Would be nice. I've seen some of the print outs from the geological profiling units computer. They have all the coordinates plugged into the system and a map with an overlay is produced with a series of spikes showing up the area of highest probabilty to find the perp. It was developed here in Canada by a former cop, Kim Rossmo VPD. We don't have access to the software unfortunately but the equation that it is based on and programed with is really a lot of common sense and human nature.

So back to other similar crimes in this vicinity. The ones Jobo mentioned haven't really been entertained in this light. Stephanie Stewart for instance, one of the standout clues was a gold watch that went missing at the same time. One wouldn't think a watch would justify murder but one wouldn't think the theft of a motorhome that was just going to be torched would either. Maybe we are seeing a personality trait here, circumstance that leads back to one individual? Murder seemingly unwarranted in multiple case?

Stephanie Stewart
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,315.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,315.0.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 05, 2010, 01:53:06 PM
as you said D1 the perps murdered on the assumption that they had been seen but then didnt the fisherman see them too?? Why didnt they go after him too?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 02:04:51 PM
Lots of variables come into play. They are on a public road and lots of people have likely seen them, no one but the McCaan's knew what happened at the time, there were no reports of a missing motorhome, they weren't looking that suspicious or suspect then and blending in was more a concern. Obliterating all witnesses who saw them anywhere along the trail would just make for a trail of bodies that led right to them. If it were someone who actually knew the perps personally, that may have been a different story. I suspect the fisherman and the perps had never set eyes on each other before that day.

That also leads me to believe that the perps driving the motorhome were not staying right there, otherwise driving around in broad daylight in a very noticeable and recently stolen motorhome in your home area would increase the chances to draw the attention of people who would likely recognize them.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2010, 03:24:04 PM
  The McCanns were not reported missing until July 10th, when they did not show up at the Airport in Abbottsford B.C.  They left on July 3rd, but eventhough the Motorhome was found burned down on the 5th, the police did not figure anything was amiss until the 10th.
   To me, that is why the sighting of the Motorhome at Chip Lk. would not be overly suspicious, as no one was looking for it.  Really, the sightings anytime before the 5th did not draw attention, it appears.
    Where would the McCanns be around lunchtime?   Wonder where they pulled over to eat.

I really want to know what kind of vehicle Vader arrived at his sister's in.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 04:20:07 PM
Depending on when the McCaan's got up and how much they had to do before leaving, they may have had breakfast fairly early on the 3rd. Then off to the gas station and then down the highway. Lunch time could have come fairly quickly.. Older folks are known to get into a habit of eating near the same time daily. Wonder what time that was for the McCaan's? Point being they may have pulled in somewhere just for that purpose. One of the first easily accessable locations, Niton.

What vehicle did Vader arrive in at his sisters place? Yep, very important question no doubt. The suv doesn't sound like it was attached to the motorhome the day the fisherman spotted it at chip lake. Did Vader beeline it to Edmonton in the suv to set up an alibi at sis and stepmom's place? They say he wasn't driving an suv upon arrival. I believe it, but did he leave it somewhere else in the vicinity? Did he show up in a taxi?  Did a friend drop him off? That is all being with held from us. If Vader had the suv, he could have ran it back to Minnow lake area the next day torched the mohome and picked up his accomplice before returning again. Maybe mom and sis were none the wiser if they didn't know he had a vehicle at his disposal.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 05, 2010, 05:10:45 PM
Do you really think that lyle and marie would of pulled over so soon into the journey??It was I heard only an hr or less to the nitton area.They had left at 9:30 in the morning so it wouldnt of been close to lunch time yet.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 05:26:44 PM
If Vader was there at Niton I believe they pulled in, I don't know why they would, don't know when they ate last or even if they had breakfast. I don't know if something unexpected happened or he heard a noise or a loose hub cap, or the slideout wasn't latched tight or any of the miriad of other things that could cause someone to pull off the highway. Maybe too much coffee and just a full bladder. Point is we don't know. We do know that Vader has been named a suspect, we have been told he had a room there in Niton, and we do know that this was along the route the McCaan's had planned to take.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 05, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
It is 137 Km from St Albert to Nojack, or 1 1/2 hours driving.   The reason I picked Nojack is that there is the
Nojack Provincial Recreational Area just west of  Nojack on the Trans Canada Hwy.     
The McCanns would be there sometime after 11:00 in the morning.   I have no clue how long it would take to set up the Motorhome and make lunch, but lets say 1/2 hour tops...so they plan to eat somewhere between 11:30 and Noon.  Maybe they had stopped there in past years, and did again this year.

I think I recall that the police had reason to check out this area.  Wonder if we can think they were accosted there?  Anyone know what it is like?

P.S.   I have an elderly uncle that eats at 12 noon everyday, and 6pm for supper.   Many elderly people have their "retirement" routines down pat.  Meals at the same time every day, many even have a short nap.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 05, 2010, 05:41:41 PM
I had gotten an idea off from the word TIPTON I had gotten regarding nojack hotel . Another god leading.I sent this in to look at the nojack hotel. Was curious after awhile if they had looked and when I did call the police just happen to be there at that moment..I was hoping so bad they would of found something. Dont remember if this was before they searched the nojack campground or after..There deffinaltley is something about the niton area tho..As D1 as stated..If the mccanns did pull in that area due to poss probs as D1 said Im so sorry they did.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 05, 2010, 05:56:49 PM
What was the weather like up there on that weekend??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 07:23:06 PM
The Nojack area would be another viable possibility. I believe it was Brett that said they wouldn't be pulling in any where like a campground but that may have been in reference to overnighting only. The nojack campground area seems more a tourist spot for overnighting. The Niton pulloff more a trucker kind of stop, close, fast in and out.

The nojack location would seem more likely a spot for perps looking to steal or hijack a motorhome at least on the surface but may actually be too open and have too many eyes around to pull something like that off. Would be interesting to see the nojack parking spots though.

I am under the impression, mostly google map impression that there was more to pulling in at nojack than niton and further to go before you could park. So I still lean to a hijack in niton and not nojack.

Of course, all that could change with a little more info, right now I believe Vader was staying in the Niton hotel and so have to bring the McCaan's to him ..

Then there is motive for murder, if the perp was staying right where the incident occured, that may cause him more concern than an incident at a location where the perp couldn't be connected.

The McCaan's kids would know the usual lunch schedule. It could be that simple to explain a stop.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 08:28:47 PM
Mindy; That is interesting the Police were at the Nojack hotel when you called. By the time the nojack property was checked, Vader was already in custody. All reports linked Vader with the Niton hotel. But the Nojack hotel is closer to Chip Lake and the area the Police were checking. The property they checked was said to belong to a former friend of Vader's. Wonder if that was a "big guy"? There was another discussion site that claimed someone had been hauling stuff off that property for a week before the police arrived.

Being a hotel, I would imagine they were just checking to see who had been staying there? Or was there more to it?

Weather, can't recall but someone else was asking about that way back in the thread.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 05, 2010, 09:04:34 PM
If vader was staying at the niton hotel ,isnt that the time his sister said that on july4th he was at her place because he had been living in the bush and was tired and hungry? I had called nojack hotel to ask if police had been there to search. was just curious if they were following what I was feeling a good place to look.They just happened to be there as I was on phone with the desk person.I had asked about the weather awhile back but forget. I heard it had been raining.For sure on the 5th when MH was burned as the MH had to of been driven fairley fast to turn on Bush lane as there is swirvy slippery tire tracks..If vader was staying at niton Hotel was he alone??? Because if he was could he alone of taken on the Mccanns himself??Some of his dudes may of been with him.Maybe lyle if stopped there was outside checking whatever prob he was having and the vader clan found this a opportunity to grab quick cash off lyle .Wouldnt of someone seen him tho trying to over take MH at the hotel area?? or was it pretty quiet in that area.As knowing truckers wouldnt of lyle tho of taken MH and SUV for servicing beforing heading out that day...Its always wise to get oil changed, tires checked etc...since this was their first trip on the road of the summer season..Bret was at his parents the night before they left. Im sure bret would of helped lyle and marie get ready and MH is good working order..But anything can happen on the road and falling into vaders lap was an unfortunate thing..Lyle may of been able to service his own stuff but have to concider his age and its just easiar the someone else do the tires etc.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 09:26:51 PM
That could be and would make sense, the police never said anything other than what Bulmer said, Vader had a room at the Niton Hotel, never got the name.

re:
Quote
If vader was staying at niton Hotel was he alone??? Because if he was could he alone of taken on the Mccanns himself??Some of his dudes may of been with him.Maybe lyle if stopped there was outside checking whatever prob he was having and the vader clan found this a opportunity to grab quick cash off lyle .Wouldnt of someone seen him tho trying to over take MH at the hotel area??

I wonder if he were alone too, never heard anything on that. One earlier remark that he had a girlfriend had me asking that then. Depending on exactly where Lyle might have stopped, another vehicle could have been parked there to block the view or Vader just moved in fast and heavy from somewhere maybe from behind another vehicle. Vader 230 or so lbs, young and strong would be plenty to overpower both McCaan's very quickly. If he got in, even following Lyle right in the side door it would be over in seconds. They'd be on the floor and out of sight almost immediately.

There may have even been a spot where Vader was waiting for someone to pull in because it afforded an easy opportunity. If Vader was there and had been there awhile, no doubt he would have scouted that whole site with that in mind. Perhaps Lyle just happened by at the wrong time when the circumstance was just right.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 05, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
re:
Quote
If vader was staying at the niton hotel ,isnt that the time his sister said that on july4th he was at her place because he had been living in the bush and was tired and hungry


I believe sis said Vader had been running around in the bush all night, that being the night of the 3rd morning of the fourth, then he shows up at sis's place sometime on the fourth. Time?? Otherwise, it was Bulmer said Vader was staying there at the hotel. Cops and media all over it and no one said otherwise.

Do you know if the hotels are the same Mindy?
Niton and Nojack?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 05, 2010, 11:35:31 PM
Quote
I wonder if he were alone too, never heard anything on that. One earlier remark that he had a girlfriend had me asking that then. Depending on exactly where Lyle might have stopped, another vehicle could have been parked there to block the view or Vader just moved in fast and heavy from somewhere maybe from behind another vehicle. Vader 230 or so lbs, young and strong would be plenty to overpower both McCann's very quickly. If he got in, even following Lyle right in the side door it would be over in seconds. They'd be on the floor and out of sight almost immediately.


I've wondered if Vader would really have had to overpower both of the McCanns. It could have happened another way. It's occurred to me that for one reason or another Lyle could have been the only one to have gotten out of the motorhome. Perhaps Marie had stayed inside to attend to something. What if Vader had been able to enter the motorhome unseen? We have no idea where Lyle was, or what he was doing. Suppose Lyle returned and found that Vader was already there with Marie. Perhaps even threatened to hurt her. Put yourself in that position. What would you do? I think it is possible that Lyle would have complied willingly with what ever was asked of him. No struggle necessary. That of course, is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 05, 2010, 11:41:44 PM
I had been told Vader was staying at the Nojack Hotel - all that is at Nojack and south of the Nojack campground is an old gas station (I don't recall if the station is still operating) and the hotel. Just to the East of the Campground is a roadside pullout that was just opened this spring. It's a paved area - no washrooms as of the last time I was out that way. I wonder if Lyle and Marie would have pulled over here as they wouldn't have had to trun around or back out of a spot. They just would have exited off the highway and they could have parked anywhere in the pullout. If they were accosted there, the side door to the motorhome would have been facing the bush and passing motorists would not have been alerted to something suspicious.
The weather that weekend was beautiful - we had some light rain, but more sunshine and warm weather than the cold miserable rain we usually get.
Hope this helps...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 12:59:26 AM
Beauty Nander!
Quote
I had been told Vader was staying at the Nojack Hotel]I had been told Vader was staying at the Nojack Hotel

If so, I am immediately onside with what you posted. Jobo was on that already too.

Deb, I agree, Marie was not going to put up a fight and Lyle would be compliant to spare her.

If the door to the motorhome was facing off to the bush side, the rest would follow. Its just up the road to the otherside of chip lake to chip lake park where the fisherman first spotted the motorhome.

Its an important point that could get everyone back on the trail. Bulmer said Niton Hotel, I assumed he was telling the truth and the hotel was at Niton. How did you hear of this Nander?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 01:12:56 AM
re the new pullout just opened this spring. It doesn't show up on my google map function, but I am either looking in the wrong spot or the map of that spot is too old to show the new area. It sounds perfect though for what we are looking for.

Quote
Just to the East of the Campground is a roadside pullout that was just opened this spring. It's a paved area - no washrooms as of the last time I was out that way. I wonder if Lyle and Marie would have pulled over here as they wouldn't have had to trun around or back out of a spot. They just would have exited off the highway and they could have parked anywhere in the pullout
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on November 06, 2010, 02:01:18 AM
Does anyone think there could be a possibility that somehow Vader and Lyle McCann had met before?  Lyle was a trucker for years, and I wonder if he stopped along his routes for coffee back then?  If Lyle had stopped in for coffee at certain cafes during his trucking days, he might have continued that habit.  The place 90 minutes into the trip may have been on old coffee stop in Lyle's past, he may have stopped this time to fill a coffee thermos, use the washroom, etc.  His son might know his dad's old coffee stops.  I know alot of truckers are creatures of habit and have their favourite cafes, and still drop in long after their trucking days end.  If one of Lyle's old coffee stops is around where Vader lived, they may have met before their July encounter.  Vader and Lyle may have even chatted before.  If so, even more reason for Lyle to be unsuspecting.  Meth can make otherwise decent people do horrendous things.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 10:24:23 AM
I have come to the conclusion that the google map of this area is too old to show any recent changes. I can find the Nojack Hotel and would like to be able to determine if that is where Vader had been staying. There seems to be some confusion and discrepancy yet. Some news reports are blending and not even differentiating Niton from Niton Junction.

Superbee- The trucker coffee shop idea has been brought up a few times and is still a point of interest. There are posters on here who believe there may have been some past connection between the McCaan's and the perps. Nothing concrete has surfaced to back that yet but there are believers.

Anyone going past Nojack have a good look at the new pullout, take a picture if possible.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 10:42:13 AM
Map shows problem with identifying location. The map shows two Nojack Hotels, a and b . One at Nojack, one at Niton junction. Need to have this straightened out..
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=nojack+hotel+alberta&fb=1&gl=ca&hq=nojack+hotel&hnear=Alberta&ei=LITVTLWWKo6qsAPdx5WNCw&ved=0CAQQtgMwAA&ll=53.772755,-116.074664&spn=0.385237,1.204415&t=h&output=embed (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=nojack+hotel+alberta&fb=1&gl=ca&hq=nojack+hotel&hnear=Alberta&ei=LITVTLWWKo6qsAPdx5WNCw&ved=0CAQQtgMwAA&ll=53.772755,-116.074664&spn=0.385237,1.204415&t=h&output=embed)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 10:46:06 AM
That would be great SAP, I believe Nander is possibly onto something and there may be clues we could be following if we knew a little more. The hotel issue needs to be clarified, surprised it hasn'r surfaced before. Hey, starting over may not have been a bad idea.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 12:00:58 PM
niton junction motel has diff number than nojack hotel..There had been alot of thefts in the area and Mckay and residents talked to were to scared to give their names really scared of vader..So what would of driven vader after all these years to suddenly kill for money? Did he run to his sisters because of what had happened to the mccanns..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 06, 2010, 12:38:31 PM
quote:

A manhunt for Vader put Niton Junction area residents on edge over the past week.

"You can see the relief on people's faces. They want this matter resolved. There's less tension in the air, put it that way," said Rick, who works at a hotel in Niton Junction.

Travis Vader, linked to missing Alberta couple, one of two men ...
19 Jul 2010 ... Read blogs and reader comments.,Travis Vader — named a "person of ... who answered the phone at the Bulmer residence near Niton Junction, ...
www.edmontonjournal.com/...Club...arrested/.../story.html (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/...Club...arrested/.../story.html) - Cached

quote:
In the 1990s, Vader worked for Getson's father at a sawmill, piling lumber and doing logging, he said.

A fellow 'Rick' was the person I was trying to remember talking to the press about Vader who was an employee of the hotel.

Vader's connection with a sawmill, which I believe Mindy brought up some time ago, then of course the subject was put aside and nothing more mentioned about it, which happened to a lot of different ideas and theories on this site.  I was thinking about this, and wondered if Getson's father was still in business, where his company was, and also which trucking companies were being used at that time.  I am convinced even more, that Lyle had crossed-paths with Travis Vader & a good majority of of his buddies, especially the ones that worked in the oil fields.  Check out some of these smaller sites, like Fort Nelson,  Fort McMurray (different oilfields) most have a blog and I came across a couple of guys on there that used to work with Vader.  The bottomline here, Vader is known all over, and no one is saying 'jack'

People should start to diversify their thoughts in this case with the McCann's, because it is jumping out right in front of our faces that this case is linked to other missing people, and murder victims. There has to be a consolidation of all the recent   missing persons from Alberta to BC as well as some latent or cold files, even though we all want to find Marie and Lyle now, as well as the others.
 

 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 12:53:35 PM
We are starting over in a way, so all those ideas and clues that never got fully pursued first time around get another chance. Talents U has just posted a link to an upcoming news segment. We all need to watch this, new clues and details are coming. This is likely the last and best chance there will be to find the McCaan's before time erodes memories.

From Talents Unlimited -
Quote
Watch if you can the CTV News Edmonton at 6 on Monday and Tuesday Nov. 8th. & 9th., a new documentary type investigative media effort by CTV and CFRN.  "Lyle and Marie McCann Search Special Report Promo", this is a preview of the up coming special report on Monday and Tuesday, I understand it will be in two parts. Should be very, very, interesting.
The preview is posted on You Tube by Bret McCann


http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg47494.html#msg47494 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg47494.html#msg47494)

CFRN Lyle & Marie McCann Search Special Report Promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBNP8ti8voY#)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 06, 2010, 01:16:24 PM
There were two suspicious fires in Prince George area, on or about July 8th, (if I have the date correct) anyways, on the sameday that Marie & Lyle's SUV was spotted in Prince George.
 
On Websleuths, and quite a few that feel that they were tied-in with the the McCann case.  One of the fires was a large drug house, and can't recall the other one.  Perhaps someone else has information on this.  Maybe those fires should be checked for remains.

It looks more and more evident that the SUV was in the Prince George area.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 01:22:45 PM
have never seen this video. wow. so where is the rest of it??then complete one? So one of the guys was about 40? Vader?? Still what was the date the fisherman saw them as vader was supposeably with his sister in edmonton.As far as the mills vader worked at I noticed that forestry trunk road off 16th past hinton is a logging road. A very long road but which mill did he actually work at. Sounds like vader got around, was known beyond what we know, people scared of him but was his crew of druggies scared of him too. Was he the ring leader and could give commands as he wished AT ONE TIME MAYBE as he may of gotten enenmies in his drug world having no places to stay. Yes vader would of stayed on his own turf..Sense of securrity as these type of people are very insecure.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 01:30:24 PM
There sure seems to be the possibility of something bigger behind all this, the possibility of a serial killer, serial arsonist, hiding within the depths of a drug organization.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 01:44:54 PM
Do you feel that vader could be this serial killer?? Or just knows of who it may be??Does this serial killer do it for money,hates elderly people.Is this person roaming highway 16 for victims. deffinately has mental issues .I feel this killer is in the area going about the community as a normal citizen. No one would ever suspect him.WE are looking for someone from the drug world when this person may not have anything to do with it.Not all killers do drugs..Not all drug dealers do drugs either but are underground selling and do have workers for them.And if they goof off are settled with very quietly. Yes I beleive the Mccanns met their fate with poss of known vader and that community thru lyle and his trucking company that also hauled fuel to these mills or oil places that vader worked at.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
I'd be looking at Vader as the main guy right now, fire seems to follow in his wake and he doesn't appear to have much regard for anyone becoming collateral damage. Like Jobo said earlier and Belle echo'ed, maybe this wasn't Vader's and co. first murder.

If we can get far enough to determine whether the initial encounter was due to coincidental circumstance or not, the rest of the questions on how much preplanning and targetting there was should answer itself.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 02:35:36 PM
Because we are just assuming what may of happened its hard to work on assumptions.Think of this tho. If you were traveling only 1 hr or so into your journey would u be making a pit stop.Anything could of happened to MH or SUV hook up noise etc but like I said before lyle as a long haul trucker would of made sure everything would of been in A1 order as it had been sitting since the summer before..You dont just head out in a motorized vehicle that has sat for a yr.Determining the SUV if it really had been taken to PG the milege would say if lyle had the SUV serviced.Where ever he had it serviced would know the true milege.Im so in doubt of the SUV in PG but who knows.If it was In PG I really wish the people who think they saw SUV would of followed it calling it in on their cells if they had cells..The SUV would of had to of been doing some mud tracking to be found full of mud on it.It was pretty dry up there when it was found so during rain it deffinatley was mud tracking on back muddy areas.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 03:03:43 PM
Quote
Think of this tho. If you were traveling only 1 hr or so into your journey would u be making a pit stop.

Mindy, I have voiced my opinion on this question already so will leave it for others.
My answer (on pg 1)
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg47430.html#msg47430 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg47430.html#msg47430)

But re:
Quote
Because we are just assuming what may of happened its hard to work on assumptions.

Some assumptions are more evidentiary based than others. The basic assumption being, the McCaan's have become victims of some sort of forced abduction. Their motorhome was found torched and they remain missing. A suspect was named and he just happens to be an arsonist. He appears to have been residing at either the Niton or Nojack Hotel. He was apparently broke and had his own vehicle repossesed. There are pullouts at or near both these Hotel locations where a motorhome could pull in. The McCaan's were headed in this direction. Wherever Vader was on that morning of the 3rd has to trump any other assumptions as to where the initial invasion occured. On a prioritized scale, IMO this is #1.

The suspect has to meet the victim somehow at sometime, You can't have one without the other. Something happened to bring them together.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 06, 2010, 04:22:49 PM
I believe that the McCanns were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.   I cannot entertain the idea it had something to do with Lyle's job as a trucker. Or their past.  So, It is sometimes hard for me to comment on everyone else's comments.  Sorry for that.
If I recall correctly, they are holding Vader in jail on warrants for charges regarding arson, and guns...true?  ( So, we are to think he likes setting fires, and owning guns.)  They also strongly believe he has knowledge on what happened to the McCanns.
I also don't think it is a stretch to think that Vader could have made it to MinnowLk. on the 5th to burn the Motorhome, and still get back to Sister's place in Edmonton in time for supper.  It is 202 Km...or 2 1/2 hour drive.   Wasn't the Motorhome found in flames in the late morning?   
He may not have had the SUV the whole time, he could have been sharing it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 05:07:44 PM
think I,ll just sit back and read as It seems that there is only one idea here and Im not quite sure of it all concidering to what I have mentioned before. or what I do know and not know but so far Im having a hard time thinking the Mccanns pulled over into vaders lap..Wrong place wrong time?. Possible but dont want to comment on things im just not quite sure of..Vader is the suspect. He is not talking and either is no one else....This is the reality of it all.The Mccanns are gone unfortunaley and finding them isnt going to be easy now concidering the time, and the weather as there wont be much left. Not a nice thought.Trying to figure out what happened to them is great but thats just figuring.logic is still assuming what may of happened like everyone is doing with other cases.We can only go by what the officials let out. Do we even know what their theory is compared to what the public is thinking. going back to the beginning is good relooking at news stuff etc but just not sure of the mccanns at niton junction pulling over there so early into the journey.Just saying Im not sure so its hard to comment.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 06, 2010, 05:25:42 PM
Was there anything that could have held them up?   I would think, that if the McCanns were anything like most retired people I know, are very regimented.   So, should (could) we assume they stopped for lunch for 12 noon.   Where would that have them?  Probably further than Nojack/Niton Junction.   
I understand what you are saying 24mindy..that if the McCanns pulled over there, it was too early for lunch.    I also partly agree, except to me there is too many variables.   Such as  1) the McCanns may have heard about that one spot; the Nojack Provincial Recreational Area, and decided to stop early  2) They stopped at Niton Junction...easy to pull into..not even a 5 minute stop...to grab a few things for when they made lunch down the road another hour or so. ( I could see myself asking my hubby to stop along the way so I could get fresh bread for lunch on the road.)
I tend to stick to those areas because the cops have also sniffed around there, and that is where Vader lived..and the SUV and Motorhome were not too far away either.
I do though, agree it is a touch early to stop in either one of those locations, unless for something like I mentioned.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 05:45:10 PM
Good shot at it Jobo. Go ahead and provide alternate explanations if you wish Mindy, I don't have a problem with that. If you keep asking for us to give an explanation or an answer to why we think something, we wiil keep giving one.

Quote
Im having a hard time thinking the Mccanns pulled over into vaders lap..Wrong place wrong time?. Possible but dont want to comment on things im just not quite sure of..

I don't know what happened either Mindy but I do try to say why I think or feel that something happened one way or another. I find this the easiest explanation without opening up an even bigger can of worms with even fewer explanations. Feel free to field whatever it is you want to say, You need to provide some of the basics to some degree if you wish everyone to go along further.
Quote
The suspect has to meet the victim somehow somewhere at sometime. You can't have one without the other. Something had to happen to bring them together.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 05:58:07 PM
jobo: as a avid camper myself I know the mccanns would of had everything they needed in the MH.Like I said it was way to early for them to pull over but like u said everything happened in that area but doesnt mean they willing pulled over there and if its so open just off highway im sure they would of been seen..And if they were in store that store owner would remember.Im sure they were questioned by police already. vader was as to if he had boughten a phone card there....When u think about it the fisherman said one person that got out of MH at chiplake wore a safety vest. Why was he wearing a safety vest?What had they been up to prior to going to chiplake..??.This is why I feel it was a trap for lyle and marie long ago but the safety vest verifys it more ..Vader wore a safety vest aboard the MH.?.So what had he planned to do having to wear that if it was him ,as he was suppose to be at his sisters on the 4th. MH burned on 5th..If the fisherman saw vader or whoever and he is is so sure , why not put vader in a line up and get fisherman to ID him. I think once vader is ID,d then charged he will open his mouth as he wont want to go down alone. So what the heck are the police doing up there. whats with this fisherman???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 06, 2010, 06:05:47 PM
I think everyone should perhaps take a break from this 'Niton Junction'... 3 pages full of the samething.  Let's wait until we see the 2 videos.  Nothing has changed on this site, and all of us should keep our comments short, straight to the point, bottomlined, whatever!....unless it is a real scoup! We all have a tendency to ramble on......along with having a different theory on how it first started out.  If people get stumped on a subject, leave it alone and go back to it later.  ::)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 06:07:58 PM
your right belle. what are these 2 videos under on youtube.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 06, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
Mindy, I don't whether you caught it all....but it will be on CTV news @ 6 pm.  Hopefully some of our questions will be answered.
Cocktail hour! ;D  They pretty well have to give the public some answers. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 06, 2010, 06:46:41 PM
'In search of the McCann's' CTV News @ 6 Monday.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 06:47:34 PM
really happy to beable to see this but still doesnt tell no one where the mccanns are or the police would have them right now. This is really going to be something to watch..I pray this jogs someones memory.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 06:55:58 PM
Coffee related, would fit perfectly in the time frame, family would know. The interest in finding the location of the initial incident is that it may provide a new starting point for searchers to look over some fresh ground. Sorry the point got so belaboured. Fingers crossed on the video. Hopefully there will be some new leads for any searchers still left out there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 06, 2010, 07:32:40 PM
really happy to be able to see this but still doesn't tell no one where the mccanns are or the police would have them right now. This is really going to be something to watch..I pray this jogs someones memory.

Wow we are on a roll, I was still over on the other thread, ...  The preview of the upcoming CTV Special says that some new people have come forward.  I think the fellow in the brown coveralls, is one of them.  The first fellow is the Minnow Lake Campground keeper or patrol person.  This is quite exciting and I am so glad to here there is something, being made public.  We all want to know, we all care about these people.   This will be putting quite a nice firm squeeze on the perps, I hope it makes it hard for them to find any kind of peace with themselves.  Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc... Time has run out, and someone is going to squeal just like a pig, just depends on which one will be first and someone is always first to spill the beans.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 07:46:32 PM
so why is this new info coming on ctv monday as like a documentary and not a news flash as with the fisherman..Did bret take this holiday as it was needed or what was found as new evidence just to much as it tells the real truth. Feel so bad for bret etc.I cant wait for monday now..AND why are these people just coming out with stuff now like the fisherman.That man in the overalls voice sure sounded like brets.What a teaser trailer...Did this guy in the overalls find something re:Mccanns poss and now just waiting for forensics...My gosh this is hard.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 06, 2010, 07:56:55 PM
It sure is a long time to make us wait, but it is a good thing...  This is investigative reporting.... The fellow, talking about the man not being Mr. McCann, may well be someone else who was camping at Minnow Lake Campground.  He may even be someone who has seen the RV etc... and who was driving it, and who was in it, between July 3rd and July 5th.  He may well be able to identify in full detail who it was that was driving and or in the the RV, driving the SUV.  As well I think we are going to see some survellience footage from a variety store or a gas station that will identify at least one of the perps.  That is just what I got from the preview.  I can't wait either, but will make sure I am home in time to watch this .... that is 6 pm Monday and Tuesday night, that is 8 pm in Ontario.  Looking forward to the details.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 08:02:08 PM
Is this edmonton time as im in bc. so it may be 5 our time. either way im not missing this for nothing and going to recored it all..Well if this person is just coming out now my question is WHY now!!!!!.Sheesh i dont get it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 08:13:29 PM
Its a compilation of events like a mini documentary by the sounds of things. Its not people coming out with new info now, notice they are covering their identities yet. Likely protection concerns, evidence publication bans etc all had to be addressed before it could be aired..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 06, 2010, 08:14:01 PM
Can't wait for more info...that's what we need ;)   From the Video, it also looks to me that there is 2 different witnesses, one being the caretaker of the campground, and the other?    Maybe the fisherman, but hopefully even another witness.
Also, check out the guy making a purchase in the video.   Is that Vader?  Can you guys with the good eyesight/computer savvy, check out this guy they are showing.   He is wearing a red/orange? cap and a dark blue? jacket.   Looks to me like it could be Vader.   hmmm 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
so why air this if theres no new info..This could really get people upset more and soon that whole area will have thousands of people up there trying to find lyle and marie. I feel bad enough as it is.BUT hope this will get something more going.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 08:42:12 PM
Guess we have to wait till Monday for answers. Jobo says he thinks it could be Vader seen in the little short video clip. It may not all be new info but its alot more than we had.

Quote
Posted by: jobo
« on: Today at 08:14:01 PM » Insert Quote

Can't wait for more info...that's what we need    From the Video, it also looks to me that there is 2 different witnesses, one being the caretaker of the campground, and the other?    Maybe the fisherman, but hopefully even another witness.
Also, check out the guy making a purchase in the video.   Is that Vader?  Can you guys with the good eyesight/computer savvy, check out this guy they are showing.   He is wearing a red/orange? cap and a dark blue? jacket.   Looks to me like it could be Vader.   hmmm 

I see the same thing, sure looks like Vader.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 06, 2010, 08:48:14 PM
checked video out. yes that looks like vader. reddish beard. Was that a store or something else?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 08:54:25 PM
My freeze frame function isn't fast enough to catch a good still shot but no doubt the Police would be able. The moving store video sure looks like Vader.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 06, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
TU would you consider re-posting your last post from the other thread here? Very interesting and kind of keeps all the new readers up to speed. Thanks.

This is the link for the preview, a CTV investigative report on the Missing McCann's.  Watch if you can the CTV News Edmonton at 6 on Monday and Tuesday Nov. 8th. & 9th., a new documentary type investigative media effort by CTV and CFRN.  "Lyle and Marie McCann Search Special Report Promo", this is a preview of the up coming special report on Monday and Tuesday, I understand it will be in two parts. Should be very, very, interesting.
The preview is posted on You Tube by Bret McCann.

CFRN Lyle & Marie McCann Search Special Report Promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBNP8ti8voY#)

Quote from: Carol-Lynn on Today at 01:08:47 PM
Quote
WTF did that old guy say he went up and knocked on the door of the motor home,

Then what about the guy who said he seen someone in there late 30 early 40s 

I bet that is the fisher guy who was out on the boat.
my response:  The old guy at the beginning saying he went and knocked on the door, is the Minnow Lake Campground patrol person, then a different man, with the one piece coveralls, walking in the field, with the reporter, he is a different man, I believe he is one of the new witnesses that have come forward, he may be the fisherman, he doesn't sound quite the same.  At any rate, these interviews in the preview are 2 separate men.  I will post that clip so you can compare, but the preview mentions new people coming forward, I guess we will know more on Monday and Tuesday.  This should put quite a nice snug squeeze on someones, nerve endings.... Let's rattle some chain.  Thank's to CTV/CFRB and the McCann Family. 


 Here is the link to the fisherman news clip:  http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928/?hub=EdmontonHome (http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928/?hub=EdmontonHome)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 06, 2010, 10:40:11 PM
Quote
TU would you consider re-posting your last post from the other thread here? Very interesting and kind of keeps all the new readers up to speed. Thanks.

Thanks TU.  :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 06, 2010, 11:07:10 PM
Just to clarify a couple of things..... The store that Vader had bought or tried to buy a phone card at was in Peers not Niton. I had been told by people who live out around Niton that Vader was living in the Nojack Hotel, whether this is true or not, I do not know - it just makes sense if the Mccann's pulled over at the highway pullout just to the East of Nojack. If the Mccann's had stopped in Niton, I'm sure the locals would have come forward that they were in the area at whatever time. I don't think that Vader has enough of an influence on people that they wouldwith hold a sighting of some sort. What if the "new" witnesses or testimony had been put forward in July, but it is only recently that it has been determined as genuine information.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 06, 2010, 11:14:58 PM
I forgot to add in that in the video, the video footage who appears to be Vader could have been from the Peers store when he tried to buy a phone card. I also meant to add that the Nojack Hotel would seem more likely as Vader's family is closer to Nojack than Niton. Even if his family didn't have much contact with him, Vader may have stayed close to what and where he knew the best. Maybe he saw his family in passing and that was enough to keep him in the area.
I am not claiming to be an expert, just voicing my opinion...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 06, 2010, 11:28:02 PM
Nander, I like hearing all those little tidbits. Appreciated especially by us folk 100's or even thousands of miles away. Maybe we are about to find out alot more on Monday including confirmation on where Vader had been staying and it will all start to fit together.
thnx
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 07, 2010, 09:41:21 AM
Nander, I believe you are correct that is store video from Peers.
from Nander
re:
Quote
I had been told by people who live out around Niton that Vader was living in the Nojack Hotel, whether this is true or not, I do not know - it just makes sense if the Mccann's pulled over at the highway pullout just to the East of Nojack.

from Nander
Quote
I wonder if Lyle and Marie would have pulled over here as they wouldn't have had to trun around or back out of a spot. They just would have exited off the highway and they could have parked anywhere in the pullout. If they were accosted there, the side door to the motorhome would have been facing the bush and passing motorists would not have been alerted to something suspicious.

From SAP
Quote
Even in the healthiest of individuals, age does things to a bladder, possibly requiring frequent stops if the pullout on the m/home is an inconvenience in using the bathroom.

Maybe Lyle pulled over but with no washrooms there decided to use those trees ? Little extra coffee for a long drive?

Vader and co. were already there waiting for someone to rob or something to steal, maybe posing as maintenance worker(s) at the pullout? Is this pullout walking distance from the Nojack Hotel?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 07, 2010, 10:08:22 AM
Could be coffee, could also be medications.   The duretics a person usually takes with pills for high blood pressure, make you have to use the washroom more often.   Does anyone know if either of the McCanns were on medication?  Drinking coffee would definitely make you have to stop sooner rather than later...  Been there done that.

Oh, and sorry for posting on the other thread, didn't mean to.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 07, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
All good Jobo, admin has locked the old thread, its our library now.
re:
Quote
Drinking coffee would definitely make you have to stop sooner rather than later

That would definitely get them into the time frame for a quick stop, Nojack Niton. The McCaan's kids would be able to answer to some of the specifics that are coming up. The answer to how it all started may lay with something as simple as this.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 07, 2010, 12:26:47 PM
The pullout is within walking distance to the Nojack Hotel - I would hazard a guess at a 2 mile walk, but still possible to walk. Who knows, they may have had a vehicle with them posing as stranded motorists at the pullout and just waiting for the first Good Samaritan to come along.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 07, 2010, 10:28:17 PM
That is Vader in that clip!!!! I would know his face any where.. I am so glad, they are going to show this tomorrow.. The public needs more information on this case.. I have not been posting much on this, as I am just waiting for confirmation on a few things.. I hope this documentry tomorrow, will give us some of the answers we all need..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 07, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
These large motor homes have their own toilets.  They would have used those - not washrooms at gas stations, nor the bushes. Has anyone thought that the sister may be out by a day or two when Vader arrived at her home? Or that she is covering for her brother?  She did say in one news article that he wasn't capable of such a thing, as to her he was a pussy cat. Odd that her opinion differs from other members of his family.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 08, 2010, 01:27:03 AM
Well looks like we are finally about to see what the police really have on Vader. Maybe no rush to put charges on him for anything else as long as he is locked up.

There are suggestions that this motorhome had a type of tipout that would block the aisle way when folded in for travel. Whatever the case, Lyle would have to pull over somewhere to use it or any other washroom. The sister has been looked at with suspicion all along. Hopefully the video will put her story in its proper place now too.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 01:19:16 PM
If lyle did pull off road he would of had to of put slide out for marie to use it..Not all the way tho if a bathroom break..Going to be very interesting to see this video on the news.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 08, 2010, 01:23:49 PM
In Canada,I believe, police do not usually lay charges until remains are found, or they have definite evidence that they are deceased.  They seldom go on circumstantial. Vader will continue to be quiet, I bet. I remember well, when his home was destroyed by fire, a number of years ago, and it was just before Xmas, and the family was left homeless.  Albertan's came to the rescue with furnishings, money, gifts etc. Recently his ex-wife, upon learning of the McCann's stated that she had suspicions that he had set fire to their own home.  They had little children at the time (they were still together).
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 08, 2010, 02:22:34 PM
There are suggestions that this motorhome had a type of tipout that would block the aisle way when folded in for travel. Whatever the case, Lyle would have to pull over somewhere to use it or any other washroom. The sister has been looked at with suspicion all along. Hopefully the video will put her story in its proper place now too.

The slide would not necessarily block the aisle to the bathroom. My husband's boss has a motorhome that is fully accessible with the slide in - when the slide is out there is more floor space and other items that fold down for transit.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 03:32:32 PM
They could of linked vader to the murder if they had found him with the mccanns DNA on his cloths. Vader had plenty of time to rid of those cloths..Since mccanns werent reported missing till the 10th that would of left vader and whoever to clean up really good ..What did police find to suspect vader tho..He was of interest.I can see that but what turned him into a suspect.What do they fully need to arrest him..Vader has to be on pins and needles. Police arent stupid.AND when they do find the Mccanns what will be left to truly connect vader 100%..Time and weather may of destroyed everything..Have the police actually found any DNA of the Mccanns from that search from RR120 or anyother search. If vaders sister wanted to be a better liar she should of said vader was at her house on the 2nd or less as the 3rd of july still put vader in his area.....july 4th wasnt a good date to pick vader being at her house..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 08, 2010, 03:36:39 PM
The police have to have something concrete to name Vader as a suspect. We certainly would not know what that is, it could be their ace in the hole. And there are no bodies and that is what Vader is hoping for, he is not going to divulge that because he thinks it is going to be his freedom card, no so, people have been convicted before without a body or bodies. This guy is going down and somebody will be going with him if they don't soon turn themselves in.  :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 04:10:36 PM
vader wont talk. nojack area is his turf, his security..His parents and other family live there. His means of drugs there. I wonder how much time he is serving.Could be a long time before anyone sees him back on the streets and with people knowing he is involved in the Mccann case they will not want him back there.Pretty scarey stuff alright.Wonder if he is getting visitors too and who they are..They should recored every call and conversation between visitors but I think thats illegal. not sure.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 08, 2010, 07:33:28 PM
Wow, so according to the CTV news report, the motor Home spotted at chip lake, WAS NOT the McCanns, this throws a lot of our theorys out the window....I would like to know exactly what the witness saw at minnow lake, the day the motorhome pulled in, and just before the fire started.. Key evidence is in that area.. I think they should drag all of those lakes in that area....Tomorrow the parents of Vader speak up..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 08, 2010, 07:41:24 PM
I am so upset, we had company drop in and I missed the show....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 08, 2010, 07:52:40 PM
Jobo..I am sure there will be a link for it soon on CTV.. I will post it if I can find it.. They really did not give much new info, but enough to get people thinking again..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 08, 2010, 09:15:04 PM
I couldn't find a station broadcasting the video out here in B.C. either. Interesting little bit of info on the chip lake sighting though. Anything, even something relatively minor has the potential to change the picture a whole lot when we are working with so few details.

The motive behind placing the billboard at Nojack is seeming a little more significant again tonite.

Quote
McCann explained the new signs aren’t just there to bring attention of drivers to the story of his parents’ disappearance, it’s also to deliver a message to a subculture of people who live in the sparsely populated region, east of Edson.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 08, 2010, 09:36:38 PM
I was checking all evening for the special program on the McCann's on CTV, I didn't get it. I hope somebody can tell me where I can hit a link to the program. Was this in the afternoon or can you give me a time that you saw it in Ontario, at least that is an hour in the difference here.  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 09:49:39 PM
GO TO CTVEDMONTON .CA and under the player go to Mccann down that list...there now is the question is what happened on the 3rd now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 10:03:55 PM
what also gets me about this  is why would anyone that is camping back up a MH with tow vehicle behind it unless they needed to be positioned to get away fast. Like I said theres still the 3rd unacounted for. So I would assume thats when they rid of the Mccanns.And another thing that is wierd that if u just killed people why would u go to a campground to be seen by everyone ..They dettached the SUV prob just before they left minnow lake...Ya. so much for chiplake but then this fisherman guy mentioned 2 guys too..ODD
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 08, 2010, 10:04:29 PM
24Mindy, thanks for that info, I just clicked in and got the information update on the case. Well this is very interesting and the main focus of the case is kind of at Minnow Lake Campground and not Chip Lake according to the report. And as we all had suspected, there was more then one person involved here. I hope that Vader's sister knows what she is getting herself into here and I hope that she is telling the truth.  ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 08, 2010, 10:28:12 PM
vaders sister isnt telling the truth..the camper guy said he saw MH back in on july 4th about supper time.guy who takes care of camp site said he went to MH and knocked on it july 4th at 6:30 in the morning... then he said he went back again at noonish and knocked again. But way back the campsite guy said the second time he went back to MH it was GONE. >So whats the story here really..AND the camper guy said he saw someone driving SUV...??? going to have to relook at video more and write these dates down better..and now that friend of vaders now says he lied about seeing vader in mccanns SUV?? Bunch of hoopla going on up there..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 03:42:36 AM
I found the video now too, just takes a while after the broadcast before they put it up on the net. Have to watch it a couple of times but the dates seem to be available, Nothing on where Vader was the nite of the 2nd day of the third, nodda. Nothing on 3rd or early day of the 4th about the motorhome. The McCaan's are left thinking it all happened around minnow lake. Seems the suv was detached before the motorhome showed up at minnow lake and the two had arranged to meet there. Please correct me if I got it wrong, have to go over it again a few times.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 07:59:33 AM
The campground caretaker does say the SUV was seen on the 5th...but the witness does not mention it.   

The only thing concrete I have come up with is that the Motorhome was found South of the TransCda Hwy.(RR#150)  and so was the SUV (RR#144 NoExitRd).
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 12:16:09 PM
MH was with SUV at minnow lake..Was  never mention before that the campground care taker had knocked on MH twice. Stoories are different now..Either way the 3rd of july is in question now.Looks like bandana dave is not reliable either. Why would he say he saw vader in SUV then change his mind.What a wierd bunch up there but that how druggies operate. They are the biggest cons and liars.Sure would love to contact that guy..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 12:22:45 PM
The more you look at the details disclosed by the new video, the more questions that arise. Will have to wait for part 2 tonite, but it has a funny feel. One example, as Mindy pointed out, the chip lake sighting was ruled out yet there is nothing else to say where the motorhome was for a full day before minnow lake.
The fisherman said:
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928/?hub=EdmontonHome (http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928/?hub=EdmontonHome)
Quote
The fisherman tells CTV News following that day he was watching the news when a story of the couple's disappearance appeared on screen. In the story, the man says an image of the couple's motorhome was shown.

"That's the motorhome that backed into the trees at Chip Lake Park. And I'm sure it was."

What evidence do they have to rule out this sighting?

The video of Vader has nothing to do with anything that could tie him to the disappearance, it is merely a video of him picking up a to go order after the disappearance at a time consistant with the alibi provided by his sister.

Hopefully part 2 of this will have something more, so far its only making a case for Vader's release.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 12:41:04 PM
1) I got the photo from the ctv video advertisement for the then upcoming McCaan segment. Just copied it off their video.

2) The video of Vader picking up his order is from around the 12th or so of july, the motorhome was torched on the 5th.

3) Guess Vader had come into some money over the last week or so.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 12:47:49 PM
good point D1. My first thought was when i saw vader with that food was who was he feeding? himself? his friends? So what date was he in this store??? Im sure he had money. All he had to do was steal something, take it to a dealer and get $20 bucks...Why the work boots too. is that the in thing up there??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 12:53:27 PM
Quote
So what date was he in this store???

The date of the Vader video is sortof revealed in the ctv commentary you hear during the playing of that segment but you have to do the math and incorporate some of the story told by Vaders sister as a starting point.
I am assuming it was around the 12th - 13th based on that.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 01:12:41 PM
I can hardly wait to hear what his parents will have to say. of course vader was a good kid and as he got older had a good job, was married etc then things went wrong.Vader stayed in that area out of security too so of course he was well known even in that store..glad for that video but wish it had a video of the outside.Seems no one payed anyattention to what vehicle he was driving.Why wasnt vader picked up way before the 19th as alot of things were going on up there like fires thefts and also his warrants..Wasnt he even under suspicion for his familys home burning up??Who really knows what happened with that.If they had picked him up long agp before the Mccanns went missing still still would be here...So who are these 2 other or more guys..Until someone talks again seeing MH who the heck will know what happened on the 3rd. where were they hiding the MH before going to minnow lake..Im going to tape the videos so I can watch anytime and make the 2 segments together..The thing is not everything is on these videos and if there was something the police would have the mccanns now but even the police cant figure out things themselves so how will we..By the way D1.Things are coming again.Old cabin with oil tank on side of cabin.nothing more but somethings coming.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 01:15:27 PM
Yes, that's what I figured too,  they said Vader was in the store 8 days after the Motorhome was burned.   That takes us to the 13th.

Bandana Dave......Well....  Notice how the other person with him refused to be filmed?...but there's Bandana Dave shooting his mouth off with nothing wise coming out of it.   Just another unproductive citizen wasting time.

I wish they had given us more to go on....like when Vader was at the store (Peers?) what was he driving?    He seemed to be alone, but was someone waiting for him outside?      They are still not telling us how Vader got to sister's either.   I was hoping for more info.

Oops, i see I am asking the same as you 24mindy....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 01:33:02 PM
Whats missing from the story is more troubling than whats in it. Went back to earlier news reports about banana Dave. It was several "others" who reported seeing Vader at B.d.'s not BD himself. He has been denying it all along apparently. The others were quite specific, saying that there were others in the suv with Vader, one was being called his girlfriend. Who is this unnamed female?

All references to evidence or anything else about Vader during the time period sis has given for his alibi is strangely absent. Including the store report of him purchasing a phone card.. questions and more questions ..? ? ?
 
Just so we keep track of what we are learning from all of this, it appears there were two men in the motorhome when it arrived at minnow lake camp ground on the evening of the fourth. The suv seemed to show up later driven by another party. All seemed to have overnited together in the motorhome and were all still there at noon of the 5th. The motorhome torched later the same day and the suv used to make the get away.

Vader was publicly identified as a poi on the 16th, the suv found later the same day.

We should try to get the dates of all these events and keep everything as accurate as possible in order to build our theories on a factual basis.  Please add to or correct as we go..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 02:38:31 PM
did someone here say they saw 2 blue vehicle at vaders parents on 751..This google sure doesnt know how to keep up to date but I see a hidden van or SUV there if this is the right house. Just remembering someone saying they saw 2 blue trucks.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 03:31:48 PM
how far off 16th on RR144 was the MH when it got burnt. Just found a google pic of smoke coming out of the wooded area with black smoke.Dont know how to put it on here but took pics off my camera
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 03:57:48 PM
SUV in same area as where there is smoke..looks like Mccanns. could be wrong but even checked tires. look the same etc.color seems a bit darker but could be the lighting of sun..cant make out person driving.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 04:47:56 PM
Yes, that was me that said that the google map of the front of Vader's parents show 2 Blue Pick-Ups....not nice and shiny and fancy either.  Not sure when this google map was taken..probably 2009 as most seem to be.

The closest I can give you is 39.5 km from Carrot Creek (On Hwy 16) to Minnow Lake.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 04:54:14 PM
Sometimes you can zoom in on the 911 numbers at the properties to give you a good idea exactly where you are.   There really isn't that many houses between Nojack and Mackay on Hwy #751, which made it fairly easy to find the parent's house.  Certain angles can show different things in the yards.
Have you checked out Bulmer's too?   Lots of junk in his yard....and railroad tracks right beside.

What keeps niggling at me now is that both the Motorhome and SUV were abandoned SOUTH of the TransCdaHwy16.    Is that telling us something?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 05:09:59 PM
Both vehicles abandoned to the south deflecting suspicion from perps being to the north?

How many sisters does Vader have? Where did this one live? Were they not in contact with other sister Bobbie Joe?

Quote
A family member who corresponded with CBC News through Facebook on Friday said she didn't know where Travis Vader was.

"I am unsure of his whereabouts as myself and my family have not heard from him, nor do we expect to," his sister, Alicia Vader, wrote. "Our hearts go out to the McCann family and we hope these developments lead to finding them.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/16/edmonton-missing-couple-rcp.html#ixzz14pSnOHWR (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/16/edmonton-missing-couple-rcp.html#ixzz14pSnOHWR)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 05:32:52 PM
I didnt know bulmar was beside railroad tracks.Thats the house!!!!!!!!!!.Is there water near him???How can I see his place on google real good..Cops have to go back there.!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 05:33:39 PM
does anyone know what bulmar drives???????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 05:40:39 PM
Mindy, jobo posted a bunch of info addresses and google coordinates about Bulmers residence back on the old thread. I can't recall exactly where and when, but some map links were posted at the time. Jobo has been suspicious of Bulmers residence all along. The police picked up Vader there and removed a bunch of boxes of something at the time. Its been looked over pretty good or should have been anyway.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 05:43:46 PM
  I guess the questions remain:  Where was the Motorhome on the night of the 3rd?
                                               Where was Vader (and company) on the 3rd?

Not one person has stepped forward to say they saw the McCanns after they left St.Albert.


24mindy....It is hard with the google "walking man" to get the right angles on the property, and can only zoom in so far.  But yes, it is right beside the tracks.    Take "walking man" up the street a touch, and 'pan' around.   Do that heading north of Bulmer's and then again south of Bulmer's closer to the tracks.  Keep just panning and zooming, that's all the advice I can give you, as that is all I know how to do..;)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 05:54:36 PM
Okay, get 'walking man'  on hwy. 751...then go north past the tracks, past the shed on west side...past the Overhead Sign for the Railway crossing....go past that and pan back around....the yard is very junky in that google map.    Wonder how long the cops were there, as like I say, looks pretty bad..would take a long time to look, although I doubt the McCanns are on that particular property, they could possibly be close by.   The tracks for example.

Oh, and go to satellite image to get the air view.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 05:56:50 PM
I watched that youtube video someone made showing his place pretty good. yes there is somemore about bulmar and i know they may of searched good but the railtracks is what I saw 2 months ago.Just wondering if there is water there close by.I see the steel posts there and the very old house.I guess on the 3rd the MH was hidden until they decided what to do unless was at another campground.possibly....Trying to look like campers..got to minnow lake at about supper time on the 4th so the MH had been hidden for 2 days, the 3rd and then the 4th arriving at minnowlake later on the 4th.It spent the night as the campsite care taker knocked on the door on the 5th at 6:30 in the morning etc..Thats what he said.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 06:24:27 PM
I got the impression from the video that the suv was not attached to the motorhome when it arrived at minnow lake, that they arrived at different times. Seems to me they planned to meet there at the campground and so may have been familiar with the area. The motorhome appears to have been torched very soon after leaving the camp spot and in very close proximity to the minnow lake campground.

Quote
Yellow tape now surrounds the bush in the area near the Minnow Lake campground. The missing couple's burnt-out motor home was found at a remote site in the campground shortly after they were reported missing.

Vandals had been frequenting the Minnow lake campground in the past, breaking into the donation box and were maybe aware of the lax supervision.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=26301 (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=26301)


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 09, 2010, 06:28:24 PM
One of 2 things:  either trying to look like campers for 2 nights
 or
staying at someone's property the first night, then driving down to Minnow Lk. in the late afternoon on the 4th.

I think I got the same impression about the SUV.. from watching the video...It came later, I guess, just before the Motorhome was set ablaze.     The campsites do look private, so things could go unnoticed..

 Perhaps the idea to burn the Motorhome in the day, would give the perps more time to get away and get away unnoticed.  (no headlights out in the middle of nowhere).   And no 'glow' from the fire to alert anyone afar.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 06:36:36 PM
We know they were trying to pose as campers on nite 2, but they had the McCaan's to deal with for nite 1. Maybe not quite so willing to be spotted under those conditions. Nice quiet safe hidden location where they could get off the main road fast and remain concealed over nite 1. Hatch a plan and get the moho to minnow lake the next day 2. If vehicles arrived at seperate times, seems a planned rendezvous denoting a familiarity with that area.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 06:42:01 PM
And yes the timing of the fire was quite likely thought out and deliberate. Headlights leaving off sideroads, not heading straight back to highway maybe the reason..

Caretaker says suv still there at noon, suggesting it was also there at 6:00 am when he called in earlier. They waited all day to make the move.

If this sequence of events is true, means there were maybe three perps involved.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 06:49:38 PM
SUV was attached at minnow lake. listen to video again. I,ve been watching it a few times..Not like I actually beleive the other guy in overalls as he said the first night MH was at minnow lake he thought something odd.What was so odd??He didnt see 2 guys getting out did he. Stablizing MH with SUV on wouldnt be appropiate..Backing in with SUV is wierd...I think they just didnt know what to do with MH OR so off their rockers they were playing campers..Guy in overalls didnt mention if the 2 guys pulled out the slide out.There isnt much room with slideout in so where did they sleep.? didnt pull out slide out as it just wasnt convenient..Guess they slept in the seats or squeezed in back bedroom. Why didnt they just abandon the MH there or was there to much evidence in it..Why didnt they just dispose of MH right after doing away with Mccanns???. A MH is hard to hide but like its been said, they knew the area...How many acres does bulmar have???? Did the police really search it that good.What were in those boxes?? Bulmars place should be checked more. Im saying this as I just learned today he lives by the railroad tracks I had seen 2 months or so ago. I had mentioned to someone about a house near railroad tracks and they said there was none so i dropped it back then.......
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 07:12:55 PM
I am still undecided what is actually being said about the suv. The caretaker says vehicles(s) were there in the morning and at noon. Then someone was seen driving the suv afternoon on the 5th just before the moho was torched. But the backing up part into the campgsite is a little strange. Unless there was a backup camera, its sort of a tough thing to do with a vehicle on a towbar so close to the back of the mororhome. You can't see it in the mirrors and seems no one got out or directed the moho into the spot. Surprised the news story wasn't a little more specific on that point.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 07:30:20 PM
D1. it is wierd how they backed in but they may of dettached SUV without been seen behind MH then took off with MH &SUV following..Didnt the camper guy see that??he seems to of seen everything else but cant describe the 2 guys or the one driving SUV...?? AND.. It takes quite a bit of being able to back a MH in with a tow vehicle..You just cant jump in a MH with tow vehicle and beable to do that..My husband is always helping our friends back their RV,s in. It takes know how..Alot of pratice..so who ever was driving the MH had some know how.. Old trucking experience???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 07:52:26 PM
Yes the backing in procedure with a vehicle on a tow bar is difficult and in some cases damn near impossible. Even with experience, the handling characteristics between different motorhomes, towbars, and attached vehicles combinations, isn't the same one to another. This guy seems to have pulled it off in one shot, no adjustments, no wiggling. Almost sounds like the suv had been detached previously and the motorhome alone backed into the stall. but, again a little more info would have been nice.?? 

from Mindy
Quote
Stablizing MH with SUV on wouldnt be appropiate..Backing in with SUV is wierd...

The camper did say the suv was being driven on the way out, but not real specific about it on the way in. Have to go over that part again too.

The new McCaan video part 2 just aired. It is pretty well Vader's parents talking about Travis and how the RCMP botched the investigation at the start then latched onto Travis as an easy target to save face.

Have to go over it a few times but all and all, I am a little disapointed.

again its at-
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/ (http://edmonton.ctv.ca/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
why did they have to focus so much on vaders parents. havent seen it yet but will soon on a link. or ctv edmonton..u could be right that SUV was detached too.Either way backing in just a MH takes some doing without experience with the mirrors or someone helping the guy back it in. camper didnt say the SUV was attached..Not very good info for public. just more assuming again.AND trying to find out where the mccanns are and what happened on the 3rd and 4th day part is going to be next to zippo...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 08:08:34 PM
Yaa, I find the ambiguity at this stage a little disconcerting. Whether the suv was attached or not upon arrival goes to whether there were two or three perps involved. Could be an important point. We really shouldn't have to be making assumptions about any of this any more.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 09, 2010, 08:19:28 PM
Hey, I was all over 'the dirtbags' body language! I couldn't help but notice how erratic his behaviour was. The preview of the video put out first, seemed to show more of this female (assuming) with red hair sitting down behind him, thinking of course that it might be his sister, but I did not catch a glimpse of the dude that was with her in that preview.

The actual video Part 1-When Vader more or less came structing through the door, he walked up to the counter, and almost immediately turned around to look at the people behind him making eye contact, acknowledging them, whatever.  The redhead was quite blurry compared to the preview, but as soon as Vader came in, suddenly this guy jumped up and took a chair beside this broad?

The way that this appeared to me, was that these people were waiting for him, and could be,  part and parcel of his dirty deeds.  I do not think the police showed  the whole video.  I also noticed when Vader walked up to the counter, he threw his wallet down, wide open with some folded up papers that also flew out, then turned around and went over to talk to these people.  The police should get a close up of that wallet with their own labs. 

I felt there was a message there from him.  He probably knew he was being video taped, but wanted to look casual, which he sure as hell did not.  I'am sure the police know who those people were, and have already checked them out. 

I paused the video with his wallet lying wide-open on the counter, a very thick wallet, enormously thick for a guy that doesn't have a pot to....in and do not imagine he has credit cards, and he probably does not have a bank, unless he is on social assistante for a bit of mad money....then he would have to provide the province with an address to send his cheques because I doubt he has direct deposit to anything.  I am sure his x-wife Victoria does not get any child support on a regular basis from Vader, but I would wager that he throws a bit of cash at her here and there, which of course she is not going to declare. When you think about it, why should she.  I would not be a bit surprised if he was still using his wife's address as his permanent address in order to get assistance.
 
I feel sorry for his kids, but I am sure his wife knows a lot more about him than she is letting on.  You cannot trust any of that crowd.

I have no comment on his sister Bobbi jo and Esther at this present time. Can't beat genetics.  I think they are both self explanatory.

I really did choke up when I watched Brett and his family talking about his Mom and Dad.  He was trying to hold back the tears, but now I can see where he is finding it hard to hold back the anger.  We are all right there with him. 

This crime has to be solved!

I think we should call in the troops. :-X

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 08:19:41 PM
Just watched video.Not sure what to think. As if vader is going to admitt he had involvment...I feel bad for his parents. His dad looks like a nice man.I beleive vader made tons of money and then lost it all. its easy to happen. How many people feel vader didnt do the killing but knows about it?? Has vader ever driven anything bigger than a truck.??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
Looks like you'd have to call in the troops and waterboard the s.o.b.s to get anywhere with this now.

I think there was a link somewhere earlier on saying Vader had owned a truck and trailer at one time for his job.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 09, 2010, 09:28:26 PM
What kind of reporting is this?  The reporter states... On the 2nd day after they left, their motorhome was seen the 4th (July) pulling in to the campground.  The 4th of July it was seen. Does that mean that the McCann's left on the Friday July 2nd and no one saw the MH on the 3rd of July? (1 day without a sighting)  am I getting this right?  Can someone help me with this? 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 09:29:39 PM
I hope this gets solved too but it looks so hopeless as the 3rd is so much in doubt. We can only guess like the police unless someone comes forward with the whole thing and that is less likely. will keep praying. thats all we can do now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 09:32:20 PM
the 2 days after they left means the 5th ...The second video was disappointing for sure...If this is all the police have done we had better not ever go missing. We wouldnt have any hope.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 09, 2010, 10:22:10 PM
Whatever is going to be said will be said now, whatever tips are to come will come now, memories that can still be jogged will be, otherwise we are just going to be left with this.

If someone had planned to free Vader at sometime in the future when it all died down, this video did a good job of softening us up for that eventuality. Perhaps his gang initiation is complete and he gets his shiny new bike upon release. Guess we just have to wait and see.

Baby, don't let your mamma's go out to see cowboys! They don't pick guitars or drive them old trucks, they pick locks and steal motorhomes and such
Times are a changin.. beware beware beware..

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 09, 2010, 11:12:15 PM
Looks like bandana dave is not reliable either. Why would he say he saw vader in SUV then change his mind...

I don't think Bandana Dave was the only person who saw Vader in the SUV. I think the RCMP has more on Vader than his family or the public knows. Unless you know someone who associates with Vader or has the same friends as Vader, we may not get new information until charges are laid and Vader goes to court for this.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 11:18:38 PM
lol D1..that was cute.I agree. We prob wont know nothing till vader gets out in 5 yrs or so..But his parents are right. They didnt persue vader tilll they needed someone to blame wether they were right or not..Funny how they avidly searched him out. NOW how did they know where to go.?.( bulmers ).Who finked vaders whereabouts???..All these videos have done is show us just a touch of what the police know and now have us going batty with more questions. AND I dont think I want to even try to figure who these guys are..All we know is its 2 or more people and what they look like is something we may never know but cant keep guessing on stuff either..If the cops cant figure it out how are we going to..All I know is I feel the police need to check bulmars place again...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 09, 2010, 11:26:47 PM
Nander: Police said bandana said him saying he saw vader in SUV was just a lie.He should be charged with public nuisance...The fisherman was so sure he saw MH at chip lake..The caretaker of minnowlake months back said he knocked on MH once and went back again it was gone. This time he said he knocked on Mh at 6;30 in the moring then again at noonish..he is telling a diff story...The camper guy seemed to think the MH not be leveled was so odd. Not odd...he sees 2 guys but doesnt think its odd not one person got out the whole time the MH was there?? Now thats odd...he could tell it was guys in late 30,s but cant describe them in anyway. and why cant he sleep at night?? something fishy with all these people who come forward..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 09, 2010, 11:59:32 PM
The second video basically showed Travis Vader's parents that are grieving over the public spectacle their son has made of himself, and his family.  This is not something new for them, but probably the worst type of nightmare, with their son being a suspect related to the kidnapping and probable murder of two good-living senior citizens, for no reason.   

Marie and Lyle were well-thought-of, good-living people that enjoyed their family and friends, and didn't deserve such a tragic ending. No one does. They seemed like very refined people, and very family oriented.
 
All families have their problems, and there usually is some sort of dysfunction throughout a person's life.  Some families,  a lot more than others!

As much as I felt bad for the 'Vaders', I still cannot forget that Ed Vader, TV's Father was the one that warned the police not to corner his son, because someone could get killed if they did.  Perhaps he and his wife forget that now, because maybe they have had time to think, and perhaps are even blaming themselves for the way TV turned out.  No doubt the Vaders have been estranged from some of their kids for whatever reasons, and it shows with at least two of them.

Travis Vader brought this all on himself and we cannot forget the following;

Vader, who grew up in the area around Niton Junction, is well-known to police and has a long criminal record with 12 separate  sets of charges dating back to 1995.

He is wanted in connection with at least 17 drug, gun, theft and arson charges stemming from two separate incidents, one near Evansburg in August last year and another in December near Barrhead.

Vader is accused of burning his own property on Dec. 8, 2009 in a manner that threatened someone else or their property.

It’s not the first time Vader’s life has been touched by fire. In November 2004 his family’s home in Niton Junction was destroyed, leaving his seven children and their mother, Victoria Vader, homeless.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 10, 2010, 12:13:55 AM
It's been fishy right from the start and it's not getting any better. The very first posts on the McCaan thead read: experts claim botched investigation-
http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/missing-alberta-couple-100715/20100715/?hub=WinnipegHome (http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/missing-alberta-couple-100715/20100715/?hub=WinnipegHome)

Then all the Prince George sightings some said to be credible, never followed up on, not a peep since.

A boy claiming the suv was in a PG scrap yard to be crushed. those posts removed and not a word of it again.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg40045.html#msg40045 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg40045.html#msg40045)

from nander
Quote
On the Facebook group's discussion board last night a young boy had posted that he had seen the SUV in a junkyard in Prince George. After being encouraged to call RCMP the boy's mom posted that they had contacted police. This morning the post was gone from the discussion board and ironically enough, in the news this morning there had been sightings of the SUV. I cannot help but think there might have been something more to the young boy's claim. He stated that it looked like the SUV had been possibly rolled, had water damage, rocks and gravel in it with camping gear

And no DNA, nothing found in the suv recovered at carrot creek? And it's not torched? How could it be cleaned that well? How could the perp be so sure it was cleaned that well? He could face murder charges for one hair out of place, a fingernail, sweat, sliva, one piece of shed skin left behind, and he just parks it and walks away??? Why so unconcerned about the suv? They torched the motorhome.. The suv could link a perp to murder as easily as the motorhome.

Did someone switch the vehicles, put the plates and towbar on another? Plant it at carrot creek and pose it as the McCaan's stolen suv to fool us all?

This exact thing has been seen before in another RCMP investigation, the suspect in that case was an RCMP informant, committing multiple crimes never charged but he too was eventually arrested under the same pretence.. Held on other charges, eventually acquitted and released, awarded millions for the trouble caused him by Police actions.
That being the case of Shannon Murrin and the murder of Mindy Tran
http://mindytran.com (http://mindytran.com)

The first vehicle suspected in that crime was replaced by a vehicle planted to deflect attention from the first.
http://www.mindytran.com/jeep0008b.jpg (http://www.mindytran.com/jeep0008b.jpg)
story on how it was done-
http://www.mindytran.com/vehiclesearch.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/vehiclesearch.htm)
 
This is more looking like an orchestrated charade IMO, its purpose not to be revealed til a future time.

Obviously I am not impressed with this attempt at an update. All are players in far more than we will ever know;

from Belle-
Quote
I felt there was a message there from him.  He probably knew he was being video taped, but wanted to look casual, which he sure as hell did not.  I'am sure the police know who those people were, and have already checked them out

When too little is released and even less makes sense, conspiracies are born. Things aren't adding up, never were and maybe never will.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 10, 2010, 12:30:17 AM
There are very few cases out there which provide a frame of reference to understand what may be transpiring here. At the conclusion of the Mindy Tran case this article was written and published in the news. These were the last words that were ever said about that "botched investigation".
 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Miracle on November 10, 2010, 08:27:24 AM
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Remand+staff+find+meth+with+legal+papers/3803181/story.html (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Remand+staff+find+meth+with+legal+papers/3803181/story.html)

Interesting how they got meth into the remand centre where TV is located...more meth heads in there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 01:14:58 PM
After watching the CTV In Search of the McCann's Part II.   
I have compassion for TV's parent's, to a point. When they start blaming the police, saying that he is being used as a scape goat, so to speak... then I part with the compassion. Mom needs to give her head a shake. The RCMP did not have ...possession, of the video of him, at 10 o'clock at night the night that he was in the bar. Had they been there, to see the video, they would have arrested him. And he is not smart, crystal meth kind of erases that. She says they could have had him then, connect the dots. Not. He was just always flying below the radar. In the one newspapers early on it was dated July 15th, Vader was named a person of interest, that is the day before they found the SUV and it had to be of knowledge to the news, prior for it to get into print. So the witnesses in Prince George, or in Niton or Peers, must have given him as the driver of the SUV, or maybe that is Mr. McCann's wallet, in the surveillance clip, but the RCMP had something on him, to name him a person of interest and then to further name him as a suspect at the end of August. And still his parents say it was the fault of the RCMP, to unfairly single him out, because he was already wanted? Not.  I was with them up until then. Maybe they just can't grasp the ton of bricks that's about to come crashing down on their son. If he was my son, and knew or even suspected that he was involved in all of those other charges, I wouldn't be asking him, I'd be telling him, that he needs to come clean, or maybe he didn't do any of those either. I know parents who totally deny that their child could do any wrong, even if they are standing on all the evidence against them, and what it amounts to is, that is the way the child has been raised, and anger the child has, comes from never being held accountable, because truly if you are not, then you are not being noticed, you feel that someone is not caring, if they do not correct your wrong ways. All children need to learn healthy boundaries and healthy ways of dealing with anger. Anger by it's self is a very healthy emotion. Had four children, four very well respected adults now, and I thank God everyday for that because with out His help it could have been much different. I know that parents get blamed for everything, and even when you have done the best you can do, you still get blamed for the little things. I was a single mother of four, ages 7, 5,4, and 1 and know how tough that can be.
I first wrote about how I felt, and I feel bad for these people the Vader's still, but to blame the police for making him a scape goat, I cannot agree and that looses some of my sympathy. TV has to be held accountable for all the charges that are against him, and he will have his day in court, for each and everyone of them. He is innocent until proven guilty, and I am not sure where the judicial system stands on any of them yet. But to be charged with any of these things, there must be something about him, that makes him stand out, to be charged in the first place. You may not agree with me and that is okay with me, but that is how I see it in my own opinion anyway.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 01:45:43 PM
I agreed to a point too with vaders parents..She said her son said he more or less didnt know nothing and she beleived him..I guess she doesnt know her son very well or she would know that people heavy on drugs are the worst liars ever.I unfortunatley have a son that was on heavy drugs for yrs stealing from me, family and stores. Nothing ever big but wow could he lie..He still can..I never beleive him..Ever......My sons under 30, had great paying job with his dad and then just turned..Get better then turn again.....They get so down they feel they cant get back up and be normal so they go on with what they know best. DRUGS AND THE STREETS..Every person they know is drug related too...So I know vader will tell his lies to his parents who dont know better or just not wise to his lies. I dont know how long vader has been on drugs or what kind but I know for sure he went thru a major withdrawl of drugs in jail..Have seen what withdrawl does. Not pretty..Not that I feel for him but its nasty..Now if anyone can get out of him anything that would be his parents. They have to push more...The only prob here tho is there may be only vader and three guys who know what happened and if he tells they will know its him and maybe kill him when he gets out.Vader wont want that..He will want to go to his home turf after....Maybe once he is out and knows its safe is when he will say something..Im sure bulmar and bandana dave know. Looks like you could get bandana dave so looped that he would talk...All of vaders friends should be under suspician too..That video of vaders parents was a waste of time tho...His dad looks like a nice guy..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 01:53:55 PM
Miracle: meth getting into the remand center? how the heck do they do it?Well I kinda know but so do the guards so they check there..I know drugs get into jails. But I think some guards look the other way..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 02:27:41 PM
Part I CTV by David Ewasuk
In Search of the McCanns - Part One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C6TiD2leDc#)

In Search of the McCann's Part II by CTV David Ewasuk.
I just listened to Part II again and realized this is TV's Father and his Step Mother.  I wonder about his Mother. 
In Search of the McCanns - Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYWu8gCvVn8#)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 02:30:12 PM
And what is with all of the people wanting to be anonymous.  Step up folks, no one is going to blame you.  Just call in you can call crime stoppers and no one has to know who you are, but you can also call CTV Edmonton and speak to David Ewasuk.   Please call.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
They wont talent..Like I said there is vader and maybe 3 other people who know what happened. if one tells they will know who it is and have them killed..Its going to have to be someone who just makes a slip of the mouth..Peeves me off that there are people out there that have no care for no ones life.It takes a real sick head or a sicko with so much hatred..That pig farmer out here in port coquitlam killed alot of street girls chopping them up..He even looks a bit like vader...sick people that go about their lives normal..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 03:38:12 PM
They wont talent..Like I said there is vader and maybe 3 other people who know what happened. if one tells they will know who it is and have them killed..Its going to have to be someone who just makes a slip of the mouth..Peeves me off that there are people out there that have no care for no ones life.It takes a real sick head or a sicko with so much hatred..That pig farmer out here in port coquitlam killed alot of street girls chopping them up..He even looks a bit like vader...sick people that go about their lives normal..
  Mindy you are probably correct.  Sad, Sick and Sorry lot, they are.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: solvy on November 10, 2010, 03:43:03 PM
Thanks TU for posting both videos together .  Not much new info, but maybe I have to watch a few times.  The stepmom seems to be sincere in her belief than he is innocent, but she just hasn't learned that you can't believe a meth head or anything he says.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 03:43:18 PM
I just talked to someone who would know but he says if vader would tell who did the murders that of course they would be picked up and charged with kidnapping and murder putting them away for a long time..Vader wouldnt have to worry and the police would help him on the outside with new place, new name etc...He,s dirt in that area anyhow..His life going no where right now ande at 38 he has his whole life ahead of him with kids etc. Its time he mans up, bite the bullett and get these guys behind bars. I wonder if he has acess to a computer in jail reading this and facebook etc..Maybe we should start putting out messages to him on here.cant on facebook as then he would have acess to our profiles for a month. Not good...His mom is on facebook tho....Could chance talking to her..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 10, 2010, 03:49:03 PM
Anyone with any intention of talking has already done so. People are backing out of what they first said now, maybe realizing their own danger. The McCaan's should just spend the $6o,000.00 on a good P.I and get on with it while there may still be a chance.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
Thank you SAP that last link is very good, the first one too, and that is Travis Vader's step mother, wonder what happened to his real mother.
It must be in the drinking water in the area between Niton and Edson...none of them stick to their stories initially.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Mother+Travis+Vader+urges+turn+himself/3293770/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Mother+Travis+Vader+urges+turn+himself/3293770/story.html)

TV's dad seems to have a short fuse as well.

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/wanted+person+interest+disappearance+bound+couple+foul+play+suspected/3288078/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/wanted+person+interest+disappearance+bound+couple+foul+play+suspected/3288078/story.html)

"If you tried to corner him, you'd be dead."
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 10, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
Looking back through some things and I found .... this sugguestion made early on.  http://www.lionsgateinvestigations.com/ (http://www.lionsgateinvestigations.com/)  and http://aapionline.ca/ (http://aapionline.ca/)
Anyone with any intention of talking has already done so. People are backing out of what they first said now, maybe realizing heir own danger. The McCaan's should just spend the $6o,000.00 on a good P.I and get on with it while there may still be a chance.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 05:09:19 PM
awesome idea. reward money for good PI....Wonder why one hasnt come forward.isnt there any one with hearts out there. I know a PI is expensive but hope the reward money would be enough.To much farting around has gone on. Im tired of it too. Everything people say they talk to is stories not facts. Absolutley nothing has been said to even come close to where the mccanns are.Of what I have gotten just recently im sending in. they have to get on with this..Does anyone here know if people were living at that burnt property..Who owns it???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 10, 2010, 05:16:00 PM
Bandana Dave says Vader was driving all kinds of vehicles......so he told us nothing.   Same with Vader's parents...describing him as driving anything from a bike to a 4 wheeler to different vehicles.   So was he stealing whatever he felt like? 
I don't think Bandana Dave is involved,I don't think he would go on camera if he was but he probably knows the stories.

Vader was well known to the police, but they couldn't find him???  What??   Why not?   We are talking very small town Alberta...and not much in-between.  I too, think Vader was invoved with others on this crime.  I also think he won't talk.  I know of a guy that spent 2 years in Kingston, rather than talk.  So it happens, these guys and their buddies/aquaintances feel they 'don't owe the cops nothing'...seriously, they don't care what the authorities think, it ain't hurting them.
 
 Like Vader's parents said, 'how come the cops didn't get him the night the video of him in a bar/restaurant getting take-out'...they really should have had him that night, and many, many nights before.

I think the sister in Edmonton lives with her mom, no?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 05:45:03 PM
jobo..when was that video of vader taken??? Those cops new already how to find vader. How lame. They found him easy at bulmars house...They just got desperate because of the Mccanns. Its stupid why the police wont say what they have on him to of made him a suspect...All this crap is doing to us is making us batty reguessing again..Cant go on like this. Im sure they have detectives on this but not good enough. Vaders sister said he was at her house on the 4th?? what was he doing on the 3rd.? Im sure bulmar knows more too. Im not sure whos mother belongs to who..sounds like a off family..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 05:59:55 PM
can someone tell me where that property fire was etc and when it was burnt. to much info to go searching for it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Concerned on November 10, 2010, 06:04:18 PM
I hesitate commenting on this thread as it is so long and such good thinkers. But, every time I read it, a question occurs to me: could it be as simple as someone wanted a MH to spend a couple days in a mini-vacation. It seems nowadays that when people without the means want something they take it, thinking nothing about harming those that own it. Could they have thought, an older couple in a MH would be vacationing on their own and not missed for the amount of time they wanted to "pretend it was theirs" and get into a camp with the resources of those they stole the MH from? 

We saw this in Ottawa, with Paula Leclair when the perp wanted to take over her apartment and live there telling everyone she won the lottery and moved away giving him her place.

And, we saw this with Valerie Xavier from the male boarder who is charged with freely droving her car and using her credit cards.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 06:09:35 PM
found info on acreage but nothing on the owners etc...I doubt this was a game of vacation.Why they had to kill the Mccanns is ridiculous but I guess lyle and marie of course saw who they were ....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 10, 2010, 07:16:40 PM
Whatever the original motive, or just crime of opportunity, I suspect it was the end result of doped out minds with little fore thought.
The cabin fire was a supposed suicide attempt near Niton JUnction halfway between Peers and MacKay..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 07:50:53 PM
when are the police going to realize that the public is getting fed up with this all..Other people im sure have kept suspecting that fire too and dont know the truth.Why cant the people that actually live up there in the area on here or the mccann site find things out.When in the area it makes it easiar for them than us.Are they still even searching or just not sure where to now or is it snowing up there..There just is nothing more to go on or to even guess on no more...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 10, 2010, 09:11:37 PM
have the police checked for pedifyles up there besides vader.Have they checked other places for video on vader or who ever looked suspicious..That highway 16 should of had more traffic webcams.So vader knows how to haul a 5th wheel and back it in his parents yard...Just rattling on...trying to think of something that makes sense.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 12:31:15 AM
Not much luck tracking the motorhome other than what we were just told in the video. Now we have even less to work with. The question arises, what did they find to determine that the chip lake sighting was of a different motorhome? The fisherman said he was sure that it was the same one. They apparently took paint chips from the chip lake campsite but with the McCaan's motorhome torched what did they even have to compare to? Was it ruled out because it wasn't towing a suv? Surprisingly little detail given.

Posted this earlier but in relation to things too controversial to be discussed on its own merit.

Quote
And no DNA, nothing found in the suv recovered at carrot creek? And it's not torched? How could it be cleaned that well? How could the perp be so sure it was cleaned that well? He could face murder charges for one hair left behind, a fingernail, sweat, sliva, one piece of shed skin, a fingerprint, and he just parks it and walks away??? Why so unconcerned about the suv? Why so confident? They torched the motorhome.. The suv could link a perp to murder just as easily as the motorhome.

So, was it because the driver had to walk to get away from there? If so, maybe he was staying pretty close to here?

The suv left where it was, in the manner it was, doesn't really make sense yet..

It was deliberately ditched there, the perp knew it would be found sooner or later. What evidence was found on it, were the McCaan's prints or dna even found?

fishy.. wheww

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 04:47:34 AM
The video of Vader in the store/restaurant was taken 8 days after the Motorhome burned....so the night of the 13th?

It is odd that the SUV was not burned to hide the perps evidence, but perhaps the perps figured if they torched it, it wouldn't give them enough time to get away.  So they ditched it down the Range Rd. #144, which is a NO EXIT road. 

I imagine the cops did get evidence from the SUV....hair...prints from the perps; but I don't think that the McCanns were in it once they left St Albert.   I think they were only in the Motorhome.

It is too hard to figure exactly where the log home and outbuildings were, as we never got accurate details..close to Niton Junction is all they said...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 11:07:07 AM
what part of the day or night was it burnt because I found that dead end road and saw smoke and some black smoke out of the woods. It was more or less at the corner of this dead end road RR144.....I wish that little walking man could go further ..didnt try the earth search from above. may of showed more...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 11:19:27 AM
Those google maps of the area are all quite old, years old in most cases.

The suv was ditched where it was for a reason. Seems a little close to home if Vader and co. Would surely attract more attention to them by leaving it where they did.

Quote
It is odd that the SUV was not burned to hide the perps evidence, but perhaps the perps figured if they torched it, it wouldn't give them enough time to get away.  So they ditched it down the Range Rd. #144, which is a NO EXIT road.

again earlier from Jobo
Quote
Bandana Dave says Vader was driving all kinds of vehicles......so he told us nothing.   Same with Vader's parents...describing him as driving anything from a bike to a 4 wheeler to different vehicles.   So was he stealing whatever he felt like?

Maybe he had a bike with him in or on the suv when it was ditched?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 11, 2010, 11:34:08 AM
How far the Motor Home could go with out running out of fuel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I researched the RV or Motor Home earlier, and according to the spec's,

The fuel tank on the RV a 1999 Gulf Sun Voyager 37 ft. is typically 80 gallons. I do not know if that is imperial gallons or US gallons, Imp. is what we use in Canada, and they are larger, but the RV I believe is mfg., in the USA, so it could well be US gallons.
It typically averages 10 miles to the gallon, that includes pulling a four door auto behind, so roughly 800 miles on a tank of fuel.

St. Albert to:
Tete Jaune Cache, B.C. junction of #16 and #5 286.5 miles (461 km) 5 hours 21 min.
Blue River BC: 354 miles (570km) 6hrs 34 min.
Minnow Lake, Alberta to:
Tete Jaune Cache, B.C. 197.6 miles (318km) 4 hr 2 min
Blue River B.C. is 265 miles (426km) 5 hrs and 14 min

So a trip from St. Albert to Blue River and back to Minnow Lake, 619 miles, approx. 11 hr. 48 min.
A trip from St. Albert to the Junct. of 16 and 5 and back to Minnow Lake, 484.1 miles, approx. 9 hrs and 23 min.

There are two places for RV's and travelers to pull over just West of Hinton, one is a permit pull in, and the other a rest area. I believe the McCann's from a past clip someone said they would not have stopped at a rest area I am not sure where I heard that. But since Lyle was a retired trucker he may have pulled into a permit checking place and it is not far East of the Rest Area, a little closer to Hinton.
There would have still been plenty of gas in the RV to get to
Blue River, or near there, or from the cut off onto Hwy 5 from 16 and then to turn around and go back to Minnow Lake Campground.

The other possiblity is that they, the perps took the RV and headed for Prince George to sell it. 456 miles (734 km) 8 hrs 50 min.
and back to Minnow Lake, 367 miles (590km) 7hrs 31 min. total 16 hrs 21 min. without doing anything else.
These long driving spells would be nothing to someone who is stoked on cocaine or crystal meth. From 10 am. on Saturday to 10 am on Sunday is 24 hours. What time did the RV pull into Minnow Lake Campground? Total of 823 miles so stretching the tank of fuel and it could be why they burned it because maybe it ran out of fuel, when they where trying to escape in the cut line. Maybe they got turned down at the scrap yard in Prince George. Somebody ought to do some detective work on that.
The 823 miles could be done on a tank of gas, because the figure of 10 miles to the gallon is specified as while towing a 4 door sedan vehicle. The SUV would have weighed considerably less than that.

The idea of a motor home driving up and down the major highway, would mean it would fit right in, driving a motor home up and down back roads, would certainly draw attention. I think they the perps just drove it. Remember they think they are clever and above the law.

I still think they stopped somewhere between Hinton and Blue River and that their bodies will be found in the rocks or in the river along near Hinton or closer to the Junct. of Hwy 16 and 5.
Burning the RV, I do not believe was their intention.
It either got stuck, or it ran out of fuel.
  I guess the questions remain:  Where was the Motorhome on the night of the 3rd?
                                               Where was Vader (and company) on the 3rd?

Not one person has stepped forward to say they saw the McCanns after they left St.Albert.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 12:33:33 PM
The odometer readings may still be obtainable. If Lyle had kept records of the mileage even at the end of the previous year or oil change date, the distance it travelled after leaving on the third till when it was found torched on the fifth should be known.

Added- same goes for the suv, although the motorhome mileage would be much more telling and significant. This is something the McCaan's could request even if it required something more like an airline crash scene investigator to obtain those readings.

I agree the motorhome more than likely kept to main highways.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 01:14:37 PM
mentioned that quite awhile back D1 about lyle having vehicles serviced after sitting all yr..SUV service area would have milege on it.Where is the SUV right now..Did they pick up everything from MH burn site.Im sure somestuff got into the air.Must of been some clue there inside burnt MH ..ya moving MH really screwed things up..I guess staying on back roads would of gotten more attention if there were enough people on those roads.But wouldnt perps be driving more in the dark than in daylight.Driving a big MH around vaders area would of gotten a whole lot of attention. Have owners of acreages noticed some rare tracks not usuall in their areas. The rain then drying up would of stil left tracks when the ground dried up..since SUV had mud on it,, it was obvious they had been either on a wet area with mud. Did the people that saw vader with MH say that the SUV had dry or wet mud all over it/
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 01:25:32 PM
I also wondered how far the Motorhome would go on a tank of gas, without having to be refueled....

I will venture to say that the perps never filled it,(too expensive) so I wonder how much gas was in it when it burned?    I believe the witness at Minnow Lake said the Motorhome drove in around suppertime on the 4th.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 01:56:43 PM
I know about minnow lake when they got there. Just wondering when they drove on that off road to burn MH. day or night??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 02:20:56 PM
Motorhome torched late afternoon of the 5th from what I gather. How much fuel was used or was left in it when torched can't be known now. It would be a large accelerant supply for the fire if any significant quantity was left..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 02:31:16 PM
re: from Mindy
Quote
mentioned that quite awhile back D1 about lyle having vehicles serviced after sitting all yr..SUV service area would have milege on it.

Did you send that question on to the McCaan's? They would have to be able to read the odometer after the fire for that info to be of any value but maybe suggest to Brett he get an independant opinion if the RCMP are saying it was too burnt to obtain the info .
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 02:35:04 PM
I wonder if setting Mh on fire was premeditated. Not sure how much fuel was in MH but enough to cause it to prob make a big bang.Unless they rid of some fuel not to cause a big scene.....late afternoon on 5th means daylight still so the pics on seen on google are right seeing smoke on RR144 where MH was burned. Now need to see from above what was going on below unless it distorts. also in area just down the road off road is 2 vehicles and one looks like the SUV.Both vehicles parked..One is a older car then as you zoom in or out the vehicle is gone heading down a dirt rd......Going to take a better look..and take pics.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 02:40:14 PM
have never sent that to bret. have sent to police tho. I think it was them.   As a Rv,er I know the MH would of had to of been dewinterized getting all the winterized stuff out of it before going away and lyle would of taken it in to a rv place UNLESS he did it himself. who knows. SUV may of been driven as normal vehicle thru the year so who knows if he had it serviced but the service place would deffinatley know milege..Will send in and check google more. another thing I saw where Mh was burnt is a bit of a burnt page of a book or what ever so paper stuff from RV could be all over place.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 02:49:08 PM
Yes the Motorhome was burned sometime in the afternoon on the 5th...sometime after the Caretaker knocked on the door around noon.   

I just thought of something.....Vader's sis says he was at her house on the 4th....wonder what time he showed up?   Possibly after the Motorhome was parked at Minnow Lk @suppertime.   Then back to Minnow Lk on the 5th, sometime after lunch hour, to torch the Motorhome.  Then back to Edmonton for supper?

I am thinking the Motorhome must have been empty the night of the 4th. 
 I wish the reporter had asked the Witness @Minnow Lk.  some more questions. 

I think that the perps were just winging it....and took a day to figure out where to park the Motorhome, and then another day to decide to burn it.     Minnow Lk is on Range Road #150  (around 39 km southwest of Carrot Creek)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 02:52:00 PM
Mindy, I highly doubt the google map images of that area were taken any where near the same time as the motorhome fire. But send a link to what you are looking at so we can see. google map has the send link option on right of the google map..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
that link just isnt working for me.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: belle on November 11, 2010, 03:46:11 PM
This is one, of two suspicious fires in Prince George on July 8th, sameday the McCann's SUV was spotted in P G.  Still trying to find the other one.
I can't see them sticking around with that SUV, and feel there was a trip to P G by the perps.  The general concensus with alot of the posters on other sites is;  The McCann's, May Milling, Mr. Fraser the trucker, Edd Tree, Jean Roelfsema, are all connected plus a few others.  I would agree.
 
I have felt all along that the McCann's will be found in the Thompson River, right or wrong.  I hate mentioning this, but I also feel that when they find one person's remains, there is a good possibility they will find a few more closeby.

Would be interesting to know who 'the squatters' were that were seen in the drughouse before it was torched. Also it was noted that an 'unknown flammable liquid' was detected by the fire crew. Would like to know what that liquid was, and if it had been used before.

RS&BBM

Redwood Fire Arson
By 250 News

Thursday, July 08, 2010 04:56 PM


Prince George, B.C. - The  fire  that  ripped through a duplex on Redwood Street this morning is now an arson investigation.

The fire broke out  around 8:00 this morning in a duplex well  known to police.  Fire officials say an unknown flammable liquid was detected by the Fire Crew at the origin of the fire.
 
The duplex was well known to police as it had been used in the past by squatters and was a known crack shack. The complex was deemed vacant and had been boarded up to keep unwanted squatters out.
 
During the investigation police spoke to a witness who saw 2 squatters inside the residence earlier in the morning but had since left the area before the fire started.
 
RCMP will be looking to identify and speak with the 2 squatters who are now suspects in this investigation.
 
Police are asking anyone who may have witnessed or has information regarding this Fire investigation to contact the Prince George RCMP or call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 03:48:56 PM
where  was the person who saw the smoke of MH? On highway 16 or in the area off road RR144..RR144 is not far from niton..They (the mccanns)are in that area.. AND like someone said they seemed to of stayed south of highway 16.except for carrotcreek area ditching SUV there only because they were cruising that area anyhow for who knows how long. Really no one can say if they had SUV for a day maybe 2. Who knows. Just because it wasnt found till the 16th doesnt mean they had it since the 5th........If they had it would of prob had more to find in it like food crumbs, beer,beer spilt etc etc unless they cleaned it good or did police not look good enough.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 03:53:06 PM
Doesn't Vader's sister say he showed up on the 4th tired and hungry?  No time given by the sis....but I will venture to say fairly late that night.    I think after they parked the Motorhome @ Minnow Lk., they snuck out of there through the bush, and perhaps met the SUV on the next road over, and got the heck out of there, and back to Edmonton.    That's why Vader was so tired and hungry.  And that is why no one answered the Motorhome door 'cause it was empty the night of the 4th all the way 'til the SUV was seen at noon by the caretaker.
At some point they decided to go back and torch the Motorhome, and did so the next day.   I wonder if it was an afterthought, but that does bring up the question of why not the SUV too?  Maybe they just didn't want the 'heat' of another fire in the area so soon.

Maybe the unkown flammable liquid(s) is whatever they use to make crack.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 03:55:53 PM
cant assume every fire that went on during the mccanns dissappearance was of the same perps.Im sure there are many crack house in PG but i highly doubt this fire has anything to do with the mccanns. I have thought about the thompson river too. Big river to be searching even on the edge of it.. We know the mccanns werent in suv tho.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:04:31 PM
Smoke from motorhome fire was spotted from Minnow lake camground by the sounds of things.

Map function isn't too hard to do, have to click the link button on top right of any google map, that will bring up anther screen with blue highlighting on the link. Just copy that and past it below your message like this below. once pasted you hhave to highlight it and click the insert hyperlink button on this screen above in blue square second on left. then voila (hopefully)

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Niton+Junction,+Alberta&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=25.326713,54.140625&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Niton+Junction,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&z=14 (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Niton+Junction,+Alberta&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=25.326713,54.140625&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Niton+Junction,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&z=14)

click google map link as shown.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:09:07 PM
camper guy didnt even mentioned he did see suv driven. Does guy wear glasses or not as he just cant say what anyone looked like but yet could see how old they were ?
?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:13:28 PM
tryed that D1..After pasteing it says i made a mistake. crazy thing
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
Right the camper guy didn't mention the SUV but if I recall correctly, the Caretaker said something like....and then I went back around noon and knocked, and the SUV was there, and no one answered.   Isn't that the first time the SUV was mentioned by witnesses to the Motorhome.?
The way the campsites looked to me, was just a pull-in off the road,they look quite private; perhaps the camper guy's spot was just a little too far away to really see that good.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:23:57 PM
All those sightings and who saw what where and when... 30 - 40 ish individual are strange.. could tell exactly age but no general description even? Perhaps just told to shut up by police or publication ban or ???


re mistake notice..
Quote
once link is pasted in message, you have to highlight it again while you click the insert hyperlink button on this site's screen above in blue square second on left
(in compose message mode)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:30:57 PM
In the beginning the caretaker said He knocked on Mh.SUV was there. dont know if dettached tho. then he said when he went back again MH was gone. This time he said he went to Mh at 6:30 in the morning ( crazy time to be waking up campers anyhow) and then he went back noonish and no one answered again. BULL. diff story now.So that means he went back a third time??? and MH was gone?? camper guy says he was so concerned that they hadnt leveled the MH..Why??Not odd at all..SUV must of been dettached because u dont level a RV with tow vehicle still on.!!!!!AND did he see guys get out at all and did he see if slide out was out. Not putting your slide out when camping would be odd as you need to access stuff.....what more arent the police saying or are they trying to get  to guess stuff for them..lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:34:25 PM
Jobo, re:
Quote
Right the camper guy didn't mention the SUV but if I recall correctly, the Caretaker said something like....and then I went back around noon and knocked, and the SUV was there, and no one answered.   Isn't that the first time the SUV was mentioned by witnesses to the Motorhome.?


first indication, reference, or insinuation to suv at Minnow lake was the caretaker, in regard to his morning round he says vehicle(s) plural. Then someone driving it seems later.. You know, that reporter should be contacted and asked to clarify his work.. too ambiguous at this stage..

Strange stuff in P.G. if Vader and co. or suv was there, who knows what a team of killers would be up to? But seems no bodies found there in crack shack fire..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=nojack+alberta&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nojack,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&gl=ca&ei=5mrcTNmWLIv2swPCm9DlAw&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA&ll=53.611502,-115.585382&spn=0,0.040812&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.587605,-116.016184&panoid=ve2kVcYkD6GCuGhWj1_Jew&cbp=12,118.29,,0,-5.79&source=embed&output=svembed (http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=nojack+alberta&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nojack,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&gl=ca&ei=5mrcTNmWLIv2swPCm9DlAw&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA&ll=53.611502,-115.585382&spn=0,0.040812&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.587605,-116.016184&panoid=ve2kVcYkD6GCuGhWj1_Jew&cbp=12,118.29,,0,-5.79&source=embed&output=svembed)http://
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:39:07 PM
Ok, see what the problem is Mindy , you are clicking the ftp button the one you want is two to the left. also has to start with http:// without the u
re:
Quote
In the beginning the caretaker said He knocked on Mh.SUV was there. dont know if dettached tho. then he said when he went back again MH was gone. This time he said he went to Mh at 6:30 in the morning ( crazy time to be waking up campers anyhow) and then he went back noonish and no one answered again. BULL. diff story now.So that means he went back a third time??? and MH was gone??

Maybe bad reporting in the beginning? Sticking with the caretakers story on the video for now, at least its direct from him not through a reporter.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:44:42 PM
getting there, you have to use the second link on the google map to save the zoom and same spot youare viewing. do the rest the same way. Delete the oops and latest, try again..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:45:54 PM
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=nojack+alberta&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nojack,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&gl=ca&ei=5mrcTNmWLIv2swPCm9DlAw&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA&ll=53.611502,-115.585382&spn=0,0.040812&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.587605,-116.016184&panoid=ve2kVcYkD6GCuGhWj1_Jew&cbp=12,126.83,,0,-10.24&source=embed&output=svembed (http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=nojack+alberta&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nojack,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta&gl=ca&ei=5mrcTNmWLIv2swPCm9DlAw&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA&ll=53.611502,-115.585382&spn=0,0.040812&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.587605,-116.016184&panoid=ve2kVcYkD6GCuGhWj1_Jew&cbp=12,126.83,,0,-10.24&source=embed&output=svembed)[/url]
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 04:46:59 PM
Oh, I see I am wrong the reporter says the camper guy thought something was odd when a guy showed up in the SUV hours before it burned.   Okay the camper guy saw it and so did the caretaker.  got it.  ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 04:48:37 PM
Ok, you are in walking man view? not satellite.. nice picture but we can't tell where it is in that mode..  good enough for now..got the picture

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:51:18 PM
YES LATER. if u want to see it go to RR144 and put little man on highway 16 and look at down 16 to see smoke corner of 16 and RR144..could be wrong but Ive come across stuff like this forbes guy, pics on his property that vader happen to steal vehicle from.Whats crazy is tho those pics were uploaded on july 7th. thats gone now. and the property is now north of highway 16..something freaky going on.Vader can now move maps properties on maps from jail??????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 04:56:41 PM
maybe we should be interviewing these reporters...I have a big list that these wittness guys didnt say or werent asked or it just wasnt put out for us to hear..Women who are married are the best reporters with questioning husbands..I know im good at it..So I have a pile of questions and I want them answered..Going to email this reporter and I hope he goes back and redoes his questioning..To many things left out..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 05:05:55 PM
I suspect the reporter could answer some of the questions without having to reinterview. Maybe he just didn't grasp the significance when he compiled the info. Sure, do that Mindy

re: changing maps and stuff, if you run into that, keep track of it, copy maps and pictures from before to compare with changes..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 05:13:42 PM
forbes property seems to be near chiplake. look to the right..When the searcher i had been talking to said they had cruised the RR112 area i looked again and it was still south South of 16th..I dont get it but something odd going on. What next. peers moving beside Hinton?? bret has the map of where forbes property was so he would know. i didnt save it. Need big alberta map. to hard to see all small towns in one area on google and back roads.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 11, 2010, 05:34:08 PM
Ok, if Brett has a copy he can see it for himself if required.
Mindy, Re; the questions for the reporter. Perhaps we could include all our questions with yours? Save everyone asking the same things or the reporter getting tired of the same questions coming from multiple parties. Could we send ours to you in a pm before you sent your's off?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 06:04:49 PM
I,ll prob call him or email. good idea D1.I will message you mine and then u can add on etc. Im going to make a list as things are fresh in my mind right now and thru out the night.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 06:18:27 PM
refresh me on this. wasnt the site no. early on no..10. not 8 as shown??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 06:22:23 PM
I think they showed several sites in that video.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 06:43:14 PM
D1..messaged u .
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 06:59:32 PM
The video taken at the restaurant/bar where Vader got take-out....wonder if they have a parking lot video, to show what vehicle he was there in?  Or who was with him, if anyone.
 How much is this pertinent info edited??

And, still no witnesses from July 3rd....odd.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 11, 2010, 07:16:43 PM
There is no witnesses AT ALL to say they saw the McCanns.  Sure, 2 people say they saw the Motorhome (for certain) and there is rumblings about the SUV.... So that fact makes me think that the McCanns were hijacked sooner rather than later. No one saw them but the perps.  I guess that is why I cannot get away from Nojack/NitonJunction/Mackay area in my thinking.

In that area, we have a few lakes, several small ponds (in fact 24mindy there is one southeast of Vader's parents back down towards Nojack)....Railway Tracks...bush and more bush....and those turn arounds I keep harping about!   
Further west I understand there is more cliffs and caves.  Possibly more hiding places.
Trouble is, we don't know where to place the perps.
The tracks bother me too, because they cut a huge swath through Yellowhead Country.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 07:20:40 PM
okay jobo. this must be the area then. tracks, water and bush..vader would know this like the back of his hand prob being there a zillion times.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 11, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
Mindy, pretty sure it was site 8 all along.....from July 15th Global article it states camp site 8 at Minnow Lake. 
http://www.globalnews.ca/tips+missing+alberta+couple+pour/3281741/story.html (http://www.globalnews.ca/tips+missing+alberta+couple+pour/3281741/story.html)
refresh me on this. wasnt the site no. early on no..10. not 8 as shown??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 11, 2010, 08:04:46 PM
okay. thanks. dont know why 10 was in my head
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 12, 2010, 12:46:30 PM
There are other possibilities to prove the mileage. For instance, where the last oil change or work was performed and when, those places often keep their own records.

Quote
With his MO and his track record, they couldn't afford to have McCann's found where they operate the most. IMHO only

Agree, but they likely wouldn't be too comfortable driving a stolen vehicle too far with the owners bodies still inside either.

If Vader a known arsonist was involved, what means of disposal do you suppose would come to his mind first?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 12, 2010, 01:07:51 PM
Motorhome only had one day of unaccounted travel, noon on the 3rd to aft of the 4th. Suv had alot more.

Those would be the areas warranting attention, near the origins of any fire involving a suspected arson.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 12, 2010, 01:45:59 PM
Not to sure on this PG siteing.The lisence plate no was out there for all to know.And if your close enough to get a lisence plate no. your close enough to see whos inside like if there was one person or two and if one looked male or female or 2 males..and what area they were in looking like they may of just gotten into town or close by a main highway. Also the SUV was found with alot of mud on it. Was there mud on it when the people in PG saw it???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 12, 2010, 05:14:01 PM
Mounties defend McCann Investigation
5am
Ed Mason
11/12/2010

The head of the RCMP in Alberta rejects a claim the Mounties have "bungled" the investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
The father of suspect Travis Vader has accused the RCMP of making his son an "easy pick" scapegoat because of his short fuse, physically intimidating presence, and numerous run-in's with the law. Ed Vader believes investigators "bungled" the case and says Travis denies involvement with the McCanns.
RCMP Assistant Commissioner Peter Hourihan responds: "We do not agree that we have 'bungled' the case.  I can certainly appreciate that a father would support a son and that his perspective is what it is, however, we investigate based on the evidence and the facts. Hourihan concludes: "People who are suspects are exactly that, suspects.  We stand behind our investigation." (EM, twd)
 
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1310589 (http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1310589)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 12, 2010, 05:25:04 PM
Quote
The father of suspect Travis Vader has accused the RCMP of making his son an "easy pick" scapegoat because of his short fuse, physically intimidating presence, and numerous run-in's with the law. Ed Vader believes investigators "bungled" the case and says Travis denies involvement with the McCanns.

.....wonder if Ed Vader truly believes the things that Travis says?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 12, 2010, 06:13:41 PM
wow. The police are sure in denial. In the beginning they did admit they botched it up. For one thing they just called the mccanns. They should of gone to house and even talked to neighbours. The neighbours would of told them the mccanns left on the 3rd of july heading to BC. Now that would of gotten things going sooner and saved trudy the trip to abbotsford...They wouldnt of found the mccanns as things no different now than in the beginning. Where are the mccanns will never change until found and so far no one has any idea.Not even a hint.Also they moved the MH from burn site. bad!!!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 13, 2010, 09:48:41 AM
Mindy, I recall that they the Edson RCMP handed it over to the St. Albert RCMP, and they went to the McCann's home, but no one was home.  I am not sure but it may have been left at that.  We can't change it now, and I have a terrible feeling that the bigger picture will show that it will not alter the out come.  It may however alter the way that the RCMP look at burned Motor Homes, in the future.  It is just amazing, I guess because I do not deal with crime on a day to day basis, but amazing none the less, how rambid crime is. 
Maybe people who work in the field get desensitized in their reactions after awhile.  Don't know how to fix that, but it is something that maybe they could look at.  Now I don't believe that they don't care, I know that they do, but I just mean the impact on the individual LE, either at the street level or in command may alter the way of responding  over a period of time when one is involved with crime day after day.   And I say this with no malicious intent or criticism, but with the deepest sincerity and reguard for our keepers of our law.   
wow. The police are sure in denial. In the beginning they did admit they botched it up. For one thing they just called the mccanns. They should of gone to house and even talked to neighbours. The neighbours would of told them the mccanns left on the 3rd of july heading to BC. Now that would of gotten things going sooner and saved trudy the trip to abbotsford...They wouldnt of found the mccanns as things no different now than in the beginning. Where are the mccanns will never change until found and so far no one has any idea.Not even a hint.Also they moved the MH from burn site. bad!!!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 13, 2010, 10:04:55 AM
I just noticed in the last evening news on inews 880, that they found human remains over near ELK Point near the North Saskatchewan River.  They will know more this coming week.  It made me think... not only, but subdudely that, maybe it is the McCann's..., but most of all it made me realize that they the perps may have also headed East with the Motor Home first.  It kind of looses the idea of selling it, but who knows, I sure don't know of places that would buy it, but I would guess that there are such places.  They may have gone East to take care of their (the perps), then problem.

Motorhome only had one day of unaccounted travel, noon on the 3rd to aft of the 4th. Suv had alot more.

Those would be the areas warranting attention, near the origins of any involving a suspected arson.

Yes, one day for m/home, long enough to go to BC and dump but perhaps the perps in SUV took a different route, so perp in m/home required it as a means to return to Edson.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Concerned on November 13, 2010, 10:17:10 AM
Here is the news blurb from 880AM.

Quote
Possible human remains investigated
5:50pm
Reid Wilkins
11/12/2010

Elk Point RCMP, north east of Edmonton, will spend the weekend searching an area where suspected human remains were found Friday morning.
 
Hunters came across what looks like a human skull near the North Saskatchewan River. The remains are decomposed and have probably been exposed to the elements for a long time.
 
The Edmonton Medical Examiner will take a closer look on Monday.  (jrw, ccg)
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1311049 (http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1311049)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 13, 2010, 10:24:46 AM
That's true, TalentsUnlimited.   Sometimes I am fed up with the Authorities, but the reality of their job is that every day they have another crime or 2 to solve.   The crimes just keep happening, and it is time consuming to solve them.  Just on this thread alone, I have spent hours trying to google map this and that.  Putting together timelines and locations.

I don't quite understand why they didn't take the Motorhome fire more seriously....unless they chalk it up to an Insurance scam?   
Why didn't they make more of an effort to find out the story behind the owners living in St Albert but the Motorhome  being in Minnow Lk.? 
 Is there so many fire events like this but they don't usually end up in a "missing case"?   So the authorities just don't spend much time on them?

I would like those answers, I need to be more educated on the police protocol.    I know around here, none of the personal property crimes ever seem to get solved...sorry to say.


Wonder who else has gone missing lately?   I took a quick look to see where Elk Point is, and that is quite far from Minnow Lake.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 13, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
The ST.Albert police did not do a good job. Doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure out that the neighbours may of known . It would of been 100%. If the police had asked neighbours they would of known  and then contacted bret or trudy. No excuse for carelessness..SO DUH!!! You find a burnt MH. Find owners from st.albert. call, no answer..Go knock on door. No answer, Go to the neighbours guys.Cant they see they are in a nice area of homes etc...What happened to police instinct...No. police screwed up and thats that...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
There is no way the police in St. Albert would not know why they were going to the McCaan's door. There should have been more follow up, it was warranted, there was more than one member involved in preventing that from happening.

The spector of a complete bungling of this case as opposed to a few minor honest mistakes will remain planted in our consiousness as long as the McCaan's remain missing and no one is charged

The Importance of the First 72 Hours: We've seen it all before, lest we forget!
quotes from another bungled case 15 years back and why it wasn't supposed to be able to happen again. From_
http://www.mindytran.com/RCMPinvestigation.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/RCMPinvestigation.htm)

Note the same excuses, understaffed over worked.. A case like the McCaan's in which everyone can relate to the horrors of their own parents gone missing, becomes a huge billboard campaign for increasing the budget of the RCMP.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 12:28:18 PM
I mention the above case for the same reason SAP brings up the PI. If the writing is already on the wall, the case bungled deliberately or otherwise with no change in sight, then alternatives need to be sought and fast. The reward is a waste of time and a waste of those resources if no one will survive collecting it. Holding that money instead of spending it now delays and hampers a proper investigation.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 01:22:46 PM
Mexico's drug problen didn't get that way overnight, it began subtly at first in ways maybe even similar to this. What we are seeing here is unacceptable, throwing more money at the RCMP isn't likely to help, just creates more of the same. New laws, new initiatives, bring the troops home and use them here in situations like this before there is no more country to come home to defend!

Its time for a new approach example:
Send in the troops, round them all up, force detox and interogate. He who talks give em dope, he who lies... solitary detox till he decides on his own whats the right thing to do. Show the poor little doper he will be protected from the big dopers. Follow through and keep going.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 02:10:54 PM
Great SAP! Our Politicians can't be allowed to just sit on the fence or turn the other cheek, if they want to do that, they need a different job. That we can help them with!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 13, 2010, 03:42:59 PM
The cops hands are tied as far as certain things that go on but there are cops who will deal with a druggy to get info and give them benifits as to not turning them in or giving them a ticket. I know someone who knew about a big drug house and the cops wanted info.This person gave it and got away what ever the crime he should of gone in for...There are good cops, bad cops and ones who think they are the almighty and reign 0ver us all..Cops will cover up for others. The police force is just another peyton place..If thery are going to cover up what they didnt do with the mccann case admitting in one video they did botch it up and then retrack that, they better think twice as the public knows. Its out there. The mccanns know they did but they had to rely on their help.I would of freaked and asked alot of questions as the mccanns might of done.Either way it is done. Cant change the world but sure can help find the mccanns and give them support..Who is reading this site??????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 04:39:53 PM
We would all love to see the McCaan's found and of course support the family all the way, but how do you unstack a loaded deck? It's a terrible analogy but when discovered, you have to call the dealer on it. The remedy, reshuffle and replace the dealer. I am convinced there is way more information and evidence available than we are being told. I am convinced that not everything need be secreted to the degree it has. I am convinced that if a good pi were permitted access to the file, some headway is still possible.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 13, 2010, 07:54:26 PM
You know what i find wierd. That absolutley no one has come forward seeing the mccanns even on st.albert trail #2 or even getting on Highway 16 july 3rd..Alot of people are traveling that early in the morning on holidays. Someone saw the MH...So why arent they coming forward.??.Dont want to get involved? That cant be with media and newspapers full of what had happened so much early on..Know one knew at that time who may of been involved so it wasnt fear stopping them..I love RV,s so I notice them all..Did the MH even make it to highway 16? Thats why it wasnt seen. Someone one must of been traveling behind them or even passed them..The reward money hasnt budged anyones memory. Why are people keeping quietand im not talking people of vaders community... And why the Mcccanns ?. A man who has traveled that road a million times..Why on the day they headed out for a vacation ..Making a Mh pull over would take alot. Lyle was no dummy after yrs of being a trucker..The perps may of detached SUV very early on , on the 3rd. If vader was involved would it of been revenge on older people being mad at his parents. They did say he had a short fuse..What happened prior to the days before Mccanns went missing between vader and his parents to maybe create such a rage in vader..I think bandana dave etc know what happened to the mccanns and who did it..Even bulmar. But they have to stay in that community so they wont talk....I really wish the Mccanns would of allowed the reward money to keep going up. Saying it is what it is ( and im just assuming what people may be thinking ) is how much our your parents worth to not allow a reward people would of gladly helped on to get high enough to make someone come forward and end this. So far no one has said anything so hiring a good PI is a good idea..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 08:24:56 PM
re:
Quote
Someone saw the MH...So why aren't they coming forward.??.

A lot of the problem comes from how long it took from the time the McCaan's left till it hit the news that they were missing. It was a full week or more before anyone knew and memories being what they are, too late. Try to recall any vehicle you saw on a particular day on a highway a week back that meant nothing to you at the time. Too tough for most of us I think.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 13, 2010, 08:50:43 PM
Gee. never thought of that D1..Who would remember after that much time unless they had seen something really abnormal.. Well there goes the who seen the MH question...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 09:21:07 PM
Well not really, just says that nothing stood out to anyone on that day, nothing out of the ordinary occured along the highway to plant any memory in anyone going by in any passing vehicle. Whatever happened happened in a manner that no one thought unusual or suspicious at the time. No armed forced abduction from off the side of the road or from anywhere noticeable. It blended in, either by mo or location or both.

Suggests the perps were familiar with their environment and or or had a particular location staked out and a plan in place. I think we are looking for a location that would fulfil the requirements necessary to pull something like this off. How to bring the two together though is proving difficult at least with what we know. We have various people who believe the McCaan's were overtaken anywhere from St. Albert to Blue River.
A lot of ground to cover.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 13, 2010, 10:31:49 PM
Going into BC dont really make sense unless the Mccanns were put somewhere until MH was burnt and then another vehicle was used..  The police said Mccanns werent in the SUV....Traveling with either live or passed bodies would be obscure.Dont u think?? Planned abduction is deffinatley what alot of people think...I agree..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 10:57:22 PM
Planned specifically for the McCaan's or just planned for whomever they came across that stumbled into their trap and fit their plans? Two completely different things.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 14, 2010, 02:04:32 AM
I believe there are at least a couple of inquiries underway into various points raised on here, but in the meantime nothing new and round and round we go. Maybe next week will will get some more answers.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 14, 2010, 01:50:10 PM
Yes there will be D1. Not going to let this go so easy.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 15, 2010, 05:32:42 PM
I went back and read other mccann site to see what i had missed. There was alot i didnt know and surprised about. puts a little more light on this all.Have to really think about what I read..there was so much.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 15, 2010, 05:42:40 PM
Over the last few days there have been a few posts on the subject of human remains. There are many, both identified and unidentified.

In order to give both of these topics adequate attention, there has been a new thread started under Other Alberta Locations, called 'Human Remains Found'.

That may not be the best place for it as there are a variety of locations already on the thread. For now, at least, that's where it is.


http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4113.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4113.0.html)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: memyselfni on November 15, 2010, 06:23:38 PM
Hi been away from the site for sometime now, I have been concentrating on prayer for the Mccann family and for the authorities to find them.  I too have been contacted by the police with visions I have sent in and I have heard nothing.
For me I have been plagued with always having to pray for their where abouts and ask that if someone else is to be used through God then for him to reveal it to them.  I have spent sometime reading over a lot of the posts and some of really stuck out for me and the main one is the talk of it not being random. 
Some have talked of the Nojack campground, in July I drove highway 16 from Edmonton to highway 32 in search of any clue to their disappearance.  I pulled into this campground and I can tell you the McCaans would not have been able to pull into it as it is narrow and small and not a place anyone with an RV would turn into.  To turn into the campground the sharp turn would make a person with a long load have to back up and try and get in straight.  Just before the campground in the ONLY rest stop on the highway with lots of room.  It is new on the highway.  When I stopped there there were many RVers stopped with their doors open and all I could think about was please close them and lock them as you don't know who is out here.  I got a very strange feeling from this rest stop, and I know as one who travels a lot it is the kind I look for to pull over, (well I don't anymore) so if there was something wrong with the MH or they needed a bathroom break it would be a place to pull over.  I did not go past highway 32 as that is the highway I was lead to go down and to a small community called Peers. 
In short since all of this has taken place I believe it is a serial person or persons that lives between nojak and Peers.
I do know the highway well and the area.  But I do not believe the mccanns stopped of their own free will.  And Mindy24 yes my visions are God given.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 15, 2010, 06:43:02 PM
hi Me: mine too. So glad you were able to go into the area.Wish I could.Being near there I feel would be more benificial for visions and the where abouts of the Mccanns. What sort of feeling did u get when there.I mean knowing the mccanns are around there and the vast amount of dense land there...Could u feel a direction/ A sense of what went on. Did u get more visions since being there?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 15, 2010, 07:36:30 PM
Vader was wanted in Barrhead, this man traveled all over the country. Let me say this.  Drugs are a big problem in this province. There is so much unreported crime in rural communities. Break-ins, etc.  I have a strong impression that the town was afraid to say anything, not only because of Vader, but because of others like him, in the township, and perhaps throughout the whole region. As the attendant said at Minnow Lake, I can't sleep at night.  As his own parent's said, he has been seen driving all kinds of vehicles, even a  bike.  If the Mounties wanted to find him, it would have been easy. (Not exact quotes). But I did notice a slight smile of pride on the step-mother's face. I also get the impression that the townsfolk regard the RCMP as key-stone cops, and don't have too much confidence in them in the best of times.  Oh, they will be pleasant to their faces, but behind their backs, they snicker.  While they held a town meeting, nothing came of it, I would not be surprised that they were terrified in giving any information to the RCMP.  Better to mind your own business. Should this be the case, of which I suspect, it must be very difficult for the RCMP to say the least.  I suspect that Vader has many friends, they don't always roam together, but they will run into each other, and perhaps rob together, and then they break off and do their own individual thing.  They all know each other, perhaps worked together, or went to school together.  So I am not surprised that there were 2 people seen in the MV.  They never snitch on each other.  Great reward money has been put forward. And no takers. Also, everything is opportunistic, with these types. Little is preplanned, they see the chance, and they take it. They move about on every whim, they may decide to go to another town, albeit in a stolen vehicle, to see what ever opportunity is awaiting there for them, to gain money for more drugs or booze.  That is the type of human being society is coping with.   And the bad attitude that small villages and towns have towards their own law enforcement., is anything but helpful. The only way that the Mounties will get their man, is if, they catch one of them, for a  somewhat large drug bust, or perhaps a homicide, and then that person will turn into a snitch to save his own skin.  (but only if they are in deep trouble on their own doings)  Also as to searches, these yahoos know the lay of the land very well, because they were raised in the area.  They know of every abandoned well, every abandoned shack, etc.  Abandoned wells. or old septic tanks, perhaps that would be a possible search.   And as to psychic dreams, or feelings, I don't have any about the McCann's, sad to say, but what I have said above, is how I believe serious druggies work. But that is my own opinion. And the answer as to their disappearance may take a long time before being answered. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: rubies on November 15, 2010, 09:54:29 PM
thank you for that post jellybean....i feel the same way.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 15, 2010, 10:08:37 PM
because of the area been known so well by perps the mccanns could be anywhere.your right about what u said J
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 15, 2010, 11:06:44 PM
Great posts lately,, memyslfni and jelly bean those two posts were Individually excellent and together even better.. Combining the ideas from both has many interesting possibilities.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 16, 2010, 02:50:01 PM
These druggies are spur of the moment.  That is why the difficulty in finding the McCann's.  Hate to  sound harsh about this topic, but I can tell you that this is how they work.  On that I have great confidence! We can yak back and forth and come up with ideas, but  I am telling you that druggies work in chaos, they live only for the moment.  They create chaos within their families, communities, and with innocent citizens.  And that is all "she wrote"  Reality check here, we have a missing mother, and a missing young man, in Edmonton. St. Albert )( the McCann's )is a bedroom community, just a hop skip and jump from the city of Edmonton.  I am displeased with the RCMP and their total bungle of this whole situation. Believe me, I would rather count on our own city police than them. 
Also, as I have stated on a few threads here, when a missing loved one is gone for about 30 days, they have met with some misadventure.  Don't expect a positive outcome. It becomes a matter of recovery.  And often, it takes years )stumbled upon) before it comes to a conclusion.  Meanwhile the families have to continue on and cope.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 16, 2010, 03:34:11 PM
HI JB...What are the druggy spur of the moment ideas of where to put the mccanns when they has the 3rd and 4th to dispose of them.What bugs me is they had so much time. Im sure they had another vehicle involved..Someone had to drive perps to where they finally eneded up with the mccanns. Im sure Mccanns didnt pull over anywhere so these guys could of sat in a vehicle waitng for the chance to get someone.AND if they did pull over for any reason that was the perps in alright. BUT why kill the mccanns..Are these the people that are murdering everyone on  highway 16..Prowling it like animals.serial killer?? Those type of people do eventually slip but right now doubt police thinking serial killer on that highway. If serial killers they sure know the edson , niton area very well.So this area must be their main station to work out of...Finding perps is one matter but finding the mccanns is going to take a miracle. Could be more months or even yrs as by now an animal may of gotten them or because of time and weather or they are hidden so well even the best PI couldnt find them.Someone has to be in those areas and over hear a conversation .People do talk eventually..Have to watch and look for a pattern of a serial killer. Map it out. dates and times and where bodies were found etc to kinda get whom or those perps are doing. People like this do have a pattern..They kinda stay in an area like highway 16 and scare everyone so much...Should set up a decoy in niton area like another MH with people dressed up as older people and see what happens....Sounds cool to me...Hope those suckers not on here seeing everything..total give away..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 16, 2010, 04:19:15 PM
Just as my purse was ripped off of my arm by a "hoody" on a Wed. afternoon,in my regular supermarket, they saw the opportunity, for a split second,and that is how they work.
No plan, they saw split seconds )and believe me, these druggies are vultures, and they will see split seconds of opportunity, and grab it.  "May have holiday cash in pockets," especially a  retired couple, they carry a lot of cash.? Let's find out.~!!  We need the fix!! Cash to buy stash.  Simple over and out,.  Nothing is preplanned with these people.  They attack strangers, the goal is to get money to buy more drugs.  As Vader's family said (and this can also apply to other druggies who are his fiends.)  When my son wanted any help it was always on his own terms, not on ours.   By the way, Vader is in his early 40's We are not talking about youngsters here, but behind every adult druggies there are kids 16, 17 and on up, running right behind their heels, and ending uplike Vader.They are Helter Skelter, and townsfolk are afraid of saying anything. The McCann's remains may never be found.  Sorry for sounding so harsh, but that is the horrific facts.  This is where faith comes in.  Faith that they are in heaven.  It is the torture that this family is going through, as well as Dylan Koshman age 22, and Melanie Jerome in her 40's , these families as well.  Young people with a future ahead of them, now cut off short, missing.............When will they be found? Who wants to care about them, and the agony these families are going through?Melanie Jerome has a 10 year old daughter, who cries for her mother every day. Now, I don't mean to be harsh, but the Senior McCann's lived a long life, and raised a wonderful family. Melanie is not capable of seeing all of this through. Dylan Koshman will never get married and raise a family.  How can these families reconcile that? No one can reconcile anything with a missing person. We can pray all that we want, but their remains may never be found, and these families will always wonder.  It is the tragedy of the families that matter most.  At lease that is my own opinion.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 16, 2010, 05:04:41 PM
There is no pattern to all these murders/missing.   Something like this probably won't happen again.    I kindof agree with Jellybean saying that druggies are spur of the moment.  I think they come up with random ideas to get rides and money for more drugs.  Crimes of opportunity.  They see money sitting in an unlocked car....it's theirs now.  A purse in a cart, unattended....gone.  And yours, right off your arm Jellybean...pretty brazen and random.
Those kinds of crimes are the norm.   Not many kill innocents, but it happens.   And it did this time.

Memyselfni:  How many spots is there to pull into between Nojack and Niton Junction, do you know?   I think there is one called Nojack Provincial Recreation Area.   Did you go in that one?     The 'new' spot you are talking about is not Nojack Provincial Park Rec.Area is it?   You are talking about different ones I presume...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 16, 2010, 07:07:34 PM
Been waiting for something like this to happen again .They got away with it and may have before. Searching the perps out will be hard but searching the mccanns could be yrs. I know the mccanns know what the true outcome is. Chances of finding them pretty close to never.Has anything more been going on with may milling?? Why is it this summer May and the mccanns met their deaths so suspiciously.AND why older people? What if they person who did whatever to may did the mccanns in. Who knows.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Carol-Lynn on November 16, 2010, 07:19:10 PM
JellyBean everyone you have spoke of has a family they have left behind. From Children to Grand children.I Can hear the frustration in your words. And your right about that and have every right to express what you feel. Were all here on the board from that very fact. Thank You for saying it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 16, 2010, 10:47:23 PM
Im mad as heck that this has happened to the mccanns..Like what was said that they have lived there life is true but either way they were alive and someone else took their lives.They may of had 5 more yrs left or more...Dieing naturaly is one thing but killed is another even tho it happens. Theres creeps out there that need to be dealt with. You look at the family and its like we all have been drawn to them and now part of their family. This could go on for months, even yrs. Who will actually still be here and how cold will this get..All the theorys in the world isnt bring lyle and marie home but somewhere in all this is saying where they are but its so hard to figure out..We will always have the Mccanns in our hearts. This really hurts and I think of them day and night. and wondering when out prayers will be answered..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 17, 2010, 02:19:10 PM
Im mad as heck that this has happened to the mccanns..Like what was said that they have lived there life is true but either way they were alive and someone else took their lives.They may of had 5 more yrs left or more...Dieing naturaly is one thing but killed is another even tho it happens. Theres creeps out there that need to be dealt with. You look at the family and its like we all have been drawn to them and now part of their family. This could go on for months, even yrs. Who will actually still be here and how cold will this get..All the theorys in the world isnt bring lyle and marie home but somewhere in all this is saying where they are but its so hard to figure out..We will always have the Mccanns in our hearts. This really hurts and I think of them day and night. and wondering when out prayers will be answered..
Yes Mindy, it is all very discouraging, and we can get down pretty quick.  Try to focus on something good.  Look for something good and you will find it, just as we search the daily news to see if there is any word, on the McCann's.  I think all of us feel much the same way, I get quite angry from time to time about it, as well as the many other persons, out there that have just for all intensive purposes, just dropped off the edge of the earth, so it seems. 
Keeping an awareness is so cruical and important in these cases.  If family doesn't do it though it is almost impossible for others to do it. 
I would like to see a Victims Awareness Week in Canada.  Time set aside every year, for all vicitims of crime to be remembered, to bring awareness and to aid in prevention.   Maybe we can bring about change through awareness.  Helping others to help themselves. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 17, 2010, 06:44:28 PM
Thought of that SAP but in the means of checking last serviced on SUV and if around july police can determine miege which would of been marked down somwhere in SUV..Who knows how long SUV was really where it was found. Could of been only days after MH was burnt. Who knows..Sure were boony bashing with it or around muddy area by water...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: nander on November 18, 2010, 12:48:51 AM
We did have some rain in the time around the Mccann's diappearance. Travelling down gravel roads which have areas treated with calcim for dust control, the SUV would have gotten as dirty as it was when found. If they had gone mud bogging or boony bashing, the SUV would have been covered in large globs of mud, the windshield clean only where the wipers would have cleared. I think that whoever had the SUV - and I think it was TV - stayed to the backroads to avoid being seen.
Just my opinion, but thought I would share.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: friends4ever on November 18, 2010, 12:55:35 AM
Has anyone considered gang involvement - like the Hells Angels? Do they stop motor homes to steal them to deliver drugs? Sorry - just joined this and I haven't read back too much into the case.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 18, 2010, 07:45:35 PM
for sure vader would of ran out of places having to go out of town to steal.There would be a special person he would go to that would buy his stuff..U dont get much tho for bucks.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: bludrulz on November 19, 2010, 11:36:25 AM

Jellybean friendsforever and others, I believe you are on the right track on the profiling but need to go further. People involved in a murder under these sort of conditions didn’t just start yesterday. There was a long building up process. Along the way these people would have come to the attention of and been noticed by the rest of the criminal crowd first. If they had involvement in other similar activities in the past, the better connected organized crime type groups and gangs would have become aware of them well before the police. It’s usually one large well connected organization that supplies drugs to an area like this. They solicit information on who else is selling in an area and discourage competition. Guns and violence to backup threats become common place in that arena. That’s often how the police become aware of who’s doing what, the spin offs, from people on the losing end with a bone to pick. The heavies become noticed by organized crime, get connected, and used.

Look at the gun charges and threats emanating from Vadar. He was spiralling down for a long time, the fires, the drugs. As much as no one likes to believe that really bad criminals can have police protection, it is exactly this kind of person who will become an informant, a rat. Anyone who will burn down his own children’s home just before Christmas, who is running around pointing guns at people, and who appears to be involved in murdering seniors has all the makings to go rat. Don’t fool yourselves. One well informed person once told me, there is a rat inside every organization, it’s a necessary part of the functions now. The pretence is that it works both ways, he rats out other organizations and gets police protection for his own. In reality, it may just be organized crime moving in to the RCMP.

Look what was done about  the weapons and threat charges, and how many other infractions, over how long?…..nothing, not a thing was being done.. A line got crossed and blurred right then and there. When no one comes forward when rewards are offered, that tells you something. When this much attention is drawn to an individual in a case like this, all of his partners past and present have a stake in the outcome. The bigger the players, organized crime gangs etc have no choice but to either shut up and go along with things pulling strings for him where you’d never suspect, or take out the guy who is attracting all the attention just to keep things contained. The police are no different, just an animal of a different stripe, look at their activities in all of this. Look at how little information is being released. Vader has been sequestered but little else is being said. Perhaps Vader is really just in protective custody, the investigation a charade? If you don’t believe the police would be involved in protecting someone like that, you just haven’t been around enough. Your own perceptions are tainted by the taste of apple pie. Not everyone wants to sit in on an organized crime / HA / RCMP rat discussion even if they could, but that’s where the bread gets buttered.

There are numerous examples of secret undisclosed deals surfacing from around the country. This is but one:

This is one example of what goes on between Law enforcement and informants. Why is it that you can be the biggest criminal out there but if you become an informant you will be paid and the law won't apply to you. I wonder what the general public would think about this?   

     Bikers, cops forge secret dealsGang members get early prison release through pacts that don't appear in their contracts to inform, affidavits state         

ANDREW MCINTOSH         National Post         Monday, October 18, 2004   

             Four extremely violent Quebec bikers are alleging that they - and as many as three dozen other men - have enjoyed early and unsupervised releases from prison after making secret verbal deals with police and correctional authorities when they became police informants.

In one case, Montreal biker-gang member Sylvain Beaudry confessed to Montreal police in 2002 that he was paid $10,000 to kill a Toronto drug dealer on Christmas Eve in 2000. He is now free on the streets of Montreal after securing an informal early-release deal when he became a police informant.Despite Beaudry's videotaped murder confession, a transcript of which has been obtained by the National Post, he has never been prosecuted for the Toronto killing because his statements - made during talks to turn him into a police informant - cannot legally be used as evidence against him.Although a murder suspect in the Toronto homicide probe, Beaudry is being paid $52,000 over two years by Montreal police to help with his food bills and taxpayers are also paying to have his biker tattoos removed, Quebec government documents show.He is expected to be a crown witness in biker trials early next year.In another case, career criminal Patrick Henault was convicted in 2003 of a slew of charges.They included arson, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted murder with a firearm and a series of drug and weapons trafficking charges, documents show.Henault earned 12 years in a federal prison. By December 2003, he had been transferred to a provincial facility and was enjoying day passes to leave with an escort.By mid-May 2004, he was no longer in prison and appeared as a police informant witness at a criminal trial in Laval.Under federal parole regulations, Henault should not have been eligible for day passes until November 2005, and ineligible for full parole from federal prison until June 2, 2007.A spokesperson for the Correctional Service of Canada was unaware of the allegations and was unable to make any comment. A spokesperson for the Surete du Quebec in Montreal also declined to comment.In sworn affidavits filed in Quebec Superior Court, four violent offenders with past underworld connections allege these sorts of secret deals with Quebec police forces and correctional officials take place all the time.The four men - who are in addition to Beaudry and Henault - allege that Surete du Quebec officers and Quebec provincial prison wardens quietly arranged for their transfer from federal prisons to provincial detention centres after they agreed to become informants and testify against other gang members.Once at Quebec detention centres, the provincial jail wardens, working with police detectives, helped the violent offenders quickly secure successive 15-day passes for release without supervision long before they were normally eligible.Such 15-day passes were often signed weeks and months in advance and issued for several years so the violent offender-informants didn't have to return to jail when their two-week passes expired, the offenders say in their sworn affidavits. Their lengthy criminal records normally rendered them ineligible for early release. In addition, details about their verbal release deals have allegedly been hidden from gang members who faced criminal charges based on the offenders' testimony, the sworn affidavits state.Many violent offenders who became police informants have been relocated outside Quebec, sources said.The affidavits from the four offenders-turned-police-informants surfaced this summer at a criminal trial in the Montreal area before Quebec Justice Pierre Tremblay, and the documents were obtained last week by the National Post.Tremblay declined to examine the allegations of a parallel and secret early-release system, saying his criminal court was not the proper venue for such a serious investigation."I do not intend to transform myself into an inquiry commissioner charged with examining the treatment reserved for informant-witnesses in prison because this is not the proper forum to do this, even in an indirect manner," Tremblay said in his judgment.Montreal criminal lawyer Jacques Normandeau gathered the sworn affidavits from the offenders, including notorious bikers Denis Boivin, Normand Tremblay, Normand Brisebois and Denis Bouthillette.Normandeau said their verbal deals with police for unsupervised early release are never spelled out in the formal contracts they signed to become informant-witnesses. All that is disclosed is that Correctional Service Canada will work with Quebec authorities to transfer the offender-informant to a provincial detention centre while his services are required.The failure to disclose the secret early-release deals for informants appears to violate laws and regulations governing such arrangements and raises serious questions about public safety, Normandeau says."These violent offenders themselves are now concerned about this parallel system because it's gone too far," Normandeau said, adding that the offenders are concerned about the Beaudry and Henault cases."They were very dangerous guys, and they were let out anyway. The authorities are not protecting the public, and the administration of justice is being undermined because this is being hidden from the court," he said








Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 19, 2010, 12:43:31 PM
bludrulz You said it all.  How true.  Because the RCMP have bungled everything initially, they have put numerous officers on this case.  The cops gave the numbers, but I forget.  It was huge. Still nothing.  SAP good idea.  Makes sense to check undercarriage of car for soil samples. Also, the police should check all of the druggies who have left the area. In other words, who was in the area at the time, (Vader's friends) and are they still there, or  have they quickly left?  If cops could put out bulletin's and posters to the public on Vader, why not for his "drug buddies"  Surely the RCMP detachments in various towns, and small communities must be aware of their own druggies, an newcomers to town? (I would hope) In other words, who was living in the area at the time, but has quietly left.  May be another tactic.
Also, have cops ask for every landowner to check abandoned buildings, wells and septic tanks.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 19, 2010, 12:58:57 PM
BLU" I have known this for years and its pretty wicked but you do what u have to do to get people to talk. Dont know if vader has been offered this and if he has he is still not talking.When reward money even at this size is not budging anyone it must mean that its not quite enough to make anyone talk...The gap between the 5th and 10th or 11th public not knowing the mccanns were missing and by the time they put it out on media has botched this case big time..I heard st.albert police did knock on the mccanns home. well when no one answered why didnt they go to neighbours. They would of found out that the mccanns had just left on the 3rd with their MH.Then they could of put 2 and 2 together, called bret or trudy and gotten on this right away...Big time mistake and big mistake moving MH from burnt area. Anyhow who ever knows is sure keeping a tight lip on it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 19, 2010, 02:48:59 PM
You have those that will talk and those that won't....
  Like I said before, I know a guy that spent 2 years in Kingston Pen.  rather than talk.   LE knew he knew details, but the guy opted to stay with 'the bad guys', and refused to give them the info they needed.
  Depends on what kind of guy Vader is.    Seems to me, he won't budge.   Maybe they need the same interviewer as Williams had.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 19, 2010, 03:03:26 PM
I am wondering.  Isn't Vader being held by LE here in Edmonton?  I can't recall.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 19, 2010, 03:03:34 PM
Jobo, It is so frustrating to sit back and not be able to see anything happening.  But I guess we cannot tell from out here, what is really going on.  I read somewhere and I'll be darned if I can find it again now, that the LE had only questioned him the once, and that they where gathering more evidence before doing so again.  If that is true then it is not a matter of TV ratting or not, it is a matter of evidence.  Before an interrogator can interrogate, and do a bang up job of it, as Smyth did in the Williams case, he has to know everything that the interviewee knows and more, he/she has to almost live an breath the thoughts of the interviewee, so this can take sometime and some deep digging on the part of evidence and leaving no hole that the perp can fall or squeeze through in the net that will encase the truth.  Because lies can become believed, lies can be ones way of protection and when confronted with the truth, like broad day light, it has to be just that, the truth and it bring an end to the lies, once the truth exposes the lies, for what they are and there is therefore no more protection for the perp in their own lies.  It will almost be a relief to the guilty person, once the truth is finally told. 
You have those that will talk and those that won't....
  Like I said before, I know a guy that spent 2 years in Kingston Pen.  rather than talk.   LE knew he knew details, but the guy opted to stay with 'the bad guys', and refused to give them the info they needed.
  Depends on what kind of guy Vader is.    Seems to me, he won't budge.   Maybe they need the same interviewer as Williams had.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 19, 2010, 03:06:14 PM
I am wondering.  Isn't Vader being held by LE here in Edmonton?  I can't recall.
He's in the Remand Center in Edmonton.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 19, 2010, 03:16:59 PM
vader will spend his time in jail, get out and hopefully make a wrong move but so far he has been pretty careful..Its a tight community up there and he has to live there. His mommy and daddy are there and im sure he needs them for his security...He wont want to be hiding under a new name in a far away town away from his family.Right now I have a son way younger than vader tho that has been sleeping on my side house outside deck for months on drugs, stealing etc and a warrant out for him..He doesnt do big time theft. Stupid little things.Why is he here? Why did he stay even in the winter close to my house or other houses we lived at. Insecurity.They like to know know mommy is still there.These type of people do not do well on their own at all..Vader wont want to leave his home town even tho he did move to summerland with his wife but im sure they had quite a phone bill to his parents..Wondering too if the vaders are getting to see their grandkids by travis and his wife? Either way vader wont talk.he prob would get killed and fears that so WHO is so bad up there that killed the Mccanns that he would fear them too. The bikers????The ring leader of the drug houses up there?? Its someone he knows that would kill him if he opened his mouth...So who ever hurt the Mccanns is very capable to kill again..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 19, 2010, 03:27:57 PM
and why has vader still in remand??keeping him safe???Well at least he is somewhat detoxed.It doesnt take this long to get his charges dealt with..Something else must be going on and how long can they name him as a suspect..Nothing has come of it so far..The police have to have something on him to name him a suspect.They just suspect he is involved.? So I wonder what they found or can cops just assume? The police have involved the public for help now but wont give no one more info.That is so dumb. If u want me involved then give me more to go on. Who,s going to remember seeing MH after all this time. No one has come forward yet seeing it and i know by now if pics were taken on highway 16 or video the people on holidays would of noticed if the MH was on them....So far only the minnow lake caretaker and the camper at minnow lake saw MH...Smack dab in their faces and nothing came of it still leading to the whereabouts of the Mccanns...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 19, 2010, 04:11:44 PM
Good point SAP, about the soil testing from the SUV and from the treads of the tires too.  I sure hope that they have checked all of that out.  Surely they would have.  When I called the St. Albert Detachment and mentioned a few thoughts both of my own and what others had mentioned, I was met with, "We know, how to conduct an investigaion!" 

That's why I wondered about the other testing on the car. Salinity is not the same everywhere and tests on debris or plant material could possibly narrow it down. That would require a bit of paper work and lab work plus research on their part though. I don't know if they have the manpower.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 19, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
24mindy:  He was wanted by police on other past charges, not even related to the MCann's.  He is jail for those charges. (whatever they are - I think someone on this thread mentioned what they were at one time.)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 19, 2010, 05:14:28 PM
jelly: I know what charges he is in for right now but what are they doing regarding the suspect thing.When u become a suspect how long can they name u on that .Can they keep him a suspect for ever how long they want..I think they better start looking for more persons of interest..vader has a very distinct look with that red hair. Now if the camper guy at minnowlake saw 2 men and could tell their ages he would beable to see red hair or a beard...color of cloths etc..AND the camper guy said he saw someone in SUV. did he see 1 or 2 men..He seemed to have seen alot but cant describe them? Even a little? But was so sure they were in their late 30,s...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 19, 2010, 11:26:33 PM
Mindy,   From the Province, on August 31st, just as TV was upgraded to a suspect in disappearaace of the McCann's,   here is a little from what the officer said.

"We have had positive progress, and we now have enough information to up his status to a suspect," RCMP spokeswoman Doris Stapleton said Tuesday.
She could not say whether there are any other persons of interest or suspects in the case at this time.
"In all investigations, we must not get tunnel vision," she said.
No bodies have been recovered and the McCanns are still considered missing, said Stapleton. She could not confirm if forensic evidence was a factor in upgrading Vader's status from a person of interest to a suspect in the case.

http://www.theprovince.com/Mounties+name+suspect+disappearance+Alberta+seniors/3464523/story.html (http://www.theprovince.com/Mounties+name+suspect+disappearance+Alberta+seniors/3464523/story.html)

jelly: I know what charges he is in for right now but what are they doing regarding the suspect thing.When u become a suspect how long can they name u on that .Can they keep him a suspect for ever how long they want..I think they better start looking for more persons of interest..vader has a very distinct look with that red hair. Now if the camper guy at minnowlake saw 2 men and could tell their ages he would beable to see red hair or a beard...color of cloths etc..AND the camper guy said he saw someone in SUV. did he see 1 or 2 men..He seemed to have seen alot but cant describe them? Even a little? But was so sure they were in their late 30,s...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 20, 2010, 12:12:14 AM
Thanks Bludrulz, for your insight and your compliments to all of us.  That is quite a user name by the way.   Also you seem quite informed about things, maybe you could indulge us a little on who you think we should be looking at.  Or who the LE should be looking at.  If you do have an informed idea, then I do believe you should call the Edson RCMP and tell them what you think.  They are quite willing to listen at Edson.  Do keep looking in on us and telling us more.   

I think we can learn from what you are saying.  What type of person would harm the McCann's?  Who would steal from them?  Who are we still looking for?
We don't know who all TV was connected too, but he most likely knew where to buy what he desired.  We can without knowing who, describe who would he would be most connected too.  Some one mentioned the charges that have been presently brought against him.
 Are there any drug trafficing charges in that lot?
In the past has he been charged and found guilty of drug trafficing?
When we examine the charges present and past we will see a pattern.  What useful ability, or tool, was TV to someone else in his connections?
 Now he has connections higher and lower.  What persons or group of people did he appeal to?  There will be those who look up to him.
What persons or group of people appealed to him, or who did he look up to?
I recall some of the charges: 
I'd sure like to know what he has been found guilty of.  Does anyone know how to find out for sure, just what he has already been found guilty of?


People involved in a murder under these sort of conditions didn’t just start yesterday. There was a long building up process. Along the way these people would have come to the attention of and been noticed by the rest of the criminal crowd first. If they had involvement in other similar activities in the past, the better connected organized crime type groups and gangs would have become aware of them well before the police. It’s usually one large well connected organization that supplies drugs to an area like this.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 20, 2010, 12:12:51 AM
seems to be to late for soil testing. Mccanns prob have SUV with them right now .No evidence of anything we know was found. All that was said is that the Mccanns werent in the SUV..SUV was cleaned up pretty good..Since it had rained a bit or enough to get SUV muddy and where MH was burnt you,d think there would be mud from shoes in SUV...Be sure that bret is getting everything..Its just a waiting game for what the police do with it now.Any foot prints where SUV was burnt was prob botched by so many police or whoever that were there stomping around there...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 20, 2010, 12:16:18 AM
CORRECTION: MH BURNT
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 20, 2010, 02:31:19 PM
24Mindy: I am sorry to learn of your son's difficulties with drugs.  They are so rampant.  Beautiful children get hooked and their families live with their child's condition as well as the child itself.  I know of it, and see it alot. Fortunately my kids were not raised during this time, frankly it could have been my family struggling with this sad and tragic dilemma. Stealing is necessary to keep the fix going. Small stuff. I hope that your son can find some help.  If you live in a rural area, this is tough. (finding help) Sometimes, they don't want help (it's the addiction that makes them feel that way). Few families are untouched by it.  That is why I so often go off on a rant about this.

JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 20, 2010, 02:55:32 PM
thanks JB. Hasnt been an easy road but fortunatley we are so close to town so he comes and goes alot..I have seen everything u can see no matter what.Have watched my sister go down the same road. Talk about the biggest cons but Doubt most druggies would commit murder just to get a hit. WHo ever got the Mccanns were out for more than just drugs...I can see if your gang related then murder happens over authority and a raw deal over drugs.Theres a school by my daughters where 2 kids were into small time drugs.Dont know what they did wrong but they got kidnapped, taken up a mountain and killed..To try to retrieve a big MH in daylight on a busy highway sounds out of the norm for drug people. They mostly work at night doing there dealings..The characteristics of drug people is so beyond what people know.They can also be the nicest people but when in need of a hit they will get outraged..Doubt they intended to kill the Mccanns.It just happened thru struggle and they paniced hiding out until they could figure out what to do..Im sure the Mccanns didnt carry much cash if at all..So what were the perps really up to..Just a day of terrorizing someone?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 20, 2010, 08:49:38 PM
So sad that the weather has hindered the Mccanns searching now calling it off. I hope other sources of info come out and other avenues searched while the Mccanns go thru their first hard winter without lyle and marie. WOW Im peeved at those perps.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 21, 2010, 10:35:37 AM
Now that the search has been officialy called off, let's just hope some one would be more open to talking around this time of year, Christmas.    I would even go as far as changing the McCann's Billboard to have some kind of Christmas message, to tug at someone's heartstrings, and they will call in a tip....It could work.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 11:34:37 AM
why did the mccanns think they were alone..The public was ready to help them..most people would of had different idea of where to search but every idea of where to go may of helped find them.I know they didnt want the public in any danger..Is there wild animals up there? Exactly where do the hunters go also. Is there a certain area. Certain road they take to get there?Is there cabins they stay at with old wells.. Old out houses? Need google to update traffic with little man..Right now its at 2009..Could poss see MH if it was 2010 starting at St.albert down ROAD NUMBER 2 ST.ALBERT TRAIL. Its a possibility anyhow...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 21, 2010, 12:17:18 PM
Sorry, google doesn't update maps on request. You get what is there. In reading- suv given back to McCaan's family, was that ever confirmed or just a suspicion? I would suspect not returned, likely still available for more testing if warranted.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 03:34:50 PM
that was very interesting SAP..Where is the real  mother of vader..?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 05:38:45 PM
Here is my theory. The MH would be a great place to bed down, and to cook up Meth.  I had a very small trailer stolen from myself, and it came with a stove in amongst other things.  (Look, I've had my car broken into, a trailer stolen, and recently my purse ripped off my arm) all within 8 years.  I can tell you that I am not careless with things either.  However, the police at that time, said that these are often used by druggies to take out to the country and cook up meth. I believe it to be true, we had druggies move into our neighborhood at the time. So, Vader and friends might have thought this would be a good steal. But, something made them chicken out.  Could have been when the maintenance man knocked on their door twice.  Also the size of it might have been difficult to hide.  But that could have been their original plan, and the getting rid of the McCann's might have changed the whole thing as well. So, when there was a knock on the door, they may have thought that the guy was checking up on the McCann's. (thinking they were reported missing) panicked and disposed of the trailer)  Remember, it was set on fire, shortly after the maintenance man went and knocked on the door twice.  Trailers are often set up in the country to cook meth, etc.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 06:01:37 PM
hi JB: The Mccanns hadnt been reported missing yet while MH was at minnowlake .The caretaker has had 2 diff stories too. First he said the second time he went back the MH and SUV were gone. Then now he says on the 5th he knocked on MH at 6:30 in the morning then at noonish knocked on Mh again. So it looks like he went back a 3rd time then MH and SUV were gone..The perps just didnt want no more of that caretaker coming back IF they knew he was the caretaker .Caretaker was quite a older man and could of been anyone to the perps. It would of taken that 2nd knock for them to decide we had better get out of here....Another thing that just came to mind was if the perps knew that area so well wouldnt they of known that at minnowlake someone comes around to collect money there...??..Thats why they got out of there not knowing why or who kept knocking on the MH..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 06:49:51 PM
The maintenance man has never changed his story.  He always said that he knocked on the door at 6:30 am, and then again around 12:30 (noon)  He said the SUV was attached at both times.  Later, he saw the SUV driving away. and later saw the MH leave. Right, they did not know that the McCann's were not reported missing, and they would not know either way. I believe that they planned on keeping the MH, but chickened out. Might have pulled over to cell phone a buddy who would have a place to hide it, or to make some kind of connection, but couldn't reach him. These things can be repainted, and identification removed just like a car, but they couldn't find a place fast enough to stow it, and when the maintenance man came twice, they panicked.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 21, 2010, 07:32:51 PM
re: JB above post
Quote
He said the SUV was attached at both times.  Later, he saw the SUV driving away

Was it confirmed that the suv was "attached" to the motorhome  at minnow lake or just that it was there with the motorhome?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 08:06:45 PM
I will have to find it. There is so much info, let me check it out.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 08:37:54 PM
Here is the link to Part 1 and Part 2 again on CTV.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091119/Edm_Viz_Newscast_091119/20100405/?hub=EdmontonHome&s_name=graph (http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091119/Edm_Viz_Newscast_091119/20100405/?hub=EdmontonHome&s_name=graph)
 From the oldtimer was camping. MH&SUV backed into site around suppertime on the 4th.  Didn't try to level MH or anything else.
It was strange he said, and he bad feelings about it.
 On the 5th and hours before the MH was burned to the ground, Maintenance guy (also an old man) rapped on the door 630 am and again at 12:30 - no answer. The MH and SUV were still sitting there when he came back the second time (12:30 noon) Later, he saw the SUV drive away, and a little while later, the MH.  The MH was burnt to the ground awhile later.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 21, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
I watched the video a few times and it isn't really definitive whether the suv was attached or not, just that it was there. I know it is suggestive that the suv was attached, but the parking procedure and later events almost suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
backing in a MH and SUV still attached would be very hard. I would assume it was dettached before it hit minnowlake..caretaker said SUV was with MH but didnt say attached or not..There are 2 diff methods to attaching a tow vehicle to a MH.One is with a A-frame hitch no tool needed to dettach..The other one is a TOW DOLLY having to use a long steel like bar to wrench it on or off. Dont know what the Mccanns had but if it was the bar one then the perps would of had to of gone into the outside compartments to get bar.. This method not easy if you have never done before.SO from the 3rd on they had plenty of time to figure out how to dettach it quick for use as they prob didnt want the hassle of driving MH with SUV on...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 10:45:29 PM
another point i think D1 mentioned. This really bugs me as this is where the police may of really botched the area where MH was burnt.First of all Someone drove MH to burn site while SUV was waiting elsehwere real close..It was raining i heard on that day or night before. There had to of been footprints of MH driver from Mh to road.When a fire was reported ( and who knows how many fire people or police were there but their foot prints were also there but of course at that time they didnt know the bad situation that had gone on.Once weather dried up in all that mud im sure footprints still were there .Did police take molds of prints later on in case and compare to police  prints and firemen prints..??Or SUV tread marks.?IF it came off road to follow MH into that deadend area.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 21, 2010, 10:53:38 PM
Quote
There are 2 diff methods to attaching a tow vehicle to a MH.One is with a A-frame hitch no tool needed to dettach..
The gas station video shows its the a frame style hitch. Easy as popping the pins and off you go. Downside, backing up, and covers the vehicle in alot of dirt from being towed in this manner.

Another question for the question list, how long was it between the time the suv left, til when the motorhome left? Enough time for one person to walk back from where the motorhome was torched to where the motorhome had been parked?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 21, 2010, 10:58:49 PM
Everything would have been a mushy mess, between firetrucks, etc.  There would not be any distinguishable footprints.  Besides MCann's would not be reported missing by that time. It would just be a trailer that was burnt to the ground by the time they got to it. Question.  Didn't the McCann's ever phone each other?  I mean didn't Brett use his cell phone to contact them daily on their trip?  Or expect a call from his Dad and Mom?
DI if you re-listen to the broadcast, it mentions a length of time between SUV leaving and Motorhome.  I think the SUV went to scout a spot for MH to be torched, and waited.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 11:13:35 PM
Police did go back there to search etc and yes firetrucks would of ran over all prints but weather had dried..Bret said his dads cell wouldnt of been on and I read in a old news thing today that he said they wouldnt of called lyle as they knew he would be okay as they would travel to states and since lyle was figor for his age and traveled so much bret didnt see a need to call his dad. AND bret had been with his dad the night before they left.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 21, 2010, 11:18:42 PM
yes, no one knew so no one preserved or protected the tracks. I am unsure the distance or time between suv leaving campground and how far to where moho was torched and how long it took between sightings? Just looking for confirmation that there had to be two people to pull this off. Could one perp have run back from the burn site leaving the suv there and driven the motorhome over afterwards?   

re:
Quote
I believe that they planned on keeping the MH, but chickened out. Might have pulled over to cell phone a buddy who would have a place to hide it, or to make some kind of connection, but couldn't reach him. These things can be repainted, and identification removed just like a car, but they couldn't find a place fast enough to stow it, and when the maintenance man came twice, they panicked.

Once the McCaan's were killed, (if thats what happened) all thoughts of keeping this vehicle for any reason no matter how ill conceived would vanish. The motorhome was out there for disposal only. IMO

The caretaker may have woken someone up or ? but I don't think he changed their plans. Once at all sober, sitting inside a stolen motorhome, the owners just murderd, the choice is made for you. torch it fast!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 11:38:29 PM
Just watched video again. caretaker said he went back at noonish but didnt say he went back that 3rd time.to see it gone. I know for sure that in his first story that the second time he went back the MH and SUV were gone. The camper guy only mentions SUV when he saw someone driving it. No mention of it at site...If site 8 is the one the zoomed in on it is not to unstable there..As a RV,er Most if not all Rv sites are level so Im not sure what the camper guy is saying unless they backed up right off the parking area into the trees more..I really dont see nothing unlevel there tho..he sure was good at seeing the ages but cant recall faces, cloths etc. odd
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 21, 2010, 11:49:25 PM
good question D1 about time of when SUV left and MH..Who knows. I would think driver of SUV would go first to find a burn spot Mh maybe following..Well if camper guy saw both leave at the same time or diff times it still says there was 2 guys that didnt quite know the area that good...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 12:00:31 AM
watched video again. caretaker and camper didnt say either way that SUV was attached or either seeing MH and SUV leaving. camper guy just said he saw Someone driving SUV..No time was even mentioned of when the MH or SUV left..The perps just wanted to rid of MH and burn evidence.I think it would only take one person to set MH on fire but who knows if other perp helped with that. Not to hard to set something on fire especially with fuel in it and propane tanks too..The MH was a walking bomb..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 12:30:04 AM
thats all our questions SAP. that thread about the boy and the junkyard was deleted fast from where nander got it. Heard of course it wasnt true.Alot of things said not true up there..They all on drugs????? lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 22, 2010, 01:30:22 AM
I've seen a map somewhere, possibly another site showing the location of the motorhome fire in relation to the campground. It seemed the fire was quite close to the campground. I get the impression the suv left and did not return. Then sometime later, the motorhome started up and left. Timeline similar to SAP's post above.

There are other possibilities for the time gap in between events if it were hours. However, more details are required, details that should have been well known by this stage. Did the suv and motorhome arrive together or seperately at different times? Attached on arrival? Two people seen in motorhome? Or two combined both vehicles? Lights on inside moho overnight?

If two people, is there cell phone coverage out there? SUV could call moho and say found a good spot to torch? or how else did they communicate that, just prearranged to meet there?

Its just another detail that goes to how many people involved and figuring other possibilities that might lead to evidence.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 02:24:56 PM
good point. 2 guys but one driving MH and SUV..Makes sense since camper guy didnt mention nothing  about the MH and SUV so we can assume this right now as no one has said if SUV was attached. not important to mention in interview i guess to reporter.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 02:54:38 PM
good point. 2 guys but one driving MH and SUV..Makes sense since camper guy didnt mention nothing  about the MH and SUV so we can assume this right now as no one has said if SUV was attached. not important to mention in interview i guess to reporter.
Right, it would not be important to say whether it was attached or not, just that they were together.  Two people were seen in MH about 30's 40's.  Not old timers.  To me, I am wondering what they did with the MCCann's. The fire so destroyed the MH, is it possible that the MCCann's remains were in it, when it was set on fire.  And since it sat in the rain for a good number of days, before taken away for forensic's, the little bit of evidence was too miniscule, and undetectable. Remember they also had to load it onto a flatbed as well. I have truly felt that is what happened.  They had hoped to find a buddy with a place to park it, and get rid of the remains of the McCann's, paint the MH, and remove it's ID. These types are very lazy.  They take the easy way all of the time.  Two birds with one stone. But, they didn't have any luck with a contact.  They made a point of really torching that MH, purposely to the ground.  These people would be brazen enough to answer the knock on the door and say that they were just leaving, or ask the maintenance guy what he wanted, but they didn't.  Perhaps because they had the McCann's remains in there, and didn't want to show their faces.  Probably asleep at 6:30 in the a.m. But very aware of knock on door at 12:30 noon.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 03:42:54 PM
Also, once they gained access to the MH with McCann's in it, they would get off the main highway soonest, and stick to some back roads. (Which they probably knew very well). So naturally the signs posted along the main hwy, would not produce any results.  Question, is the gas tank on the same side as the door (entrance to the MH) or on other side?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 03:44:16 PM
gas tank on other side of MH .Door other side.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
Possibly hijacked in St. Albert while loading up with gas.  Perps walk in there is Marie, and they are on their way. This scenario is so simple. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 03:57:13 PM
SAP: The McCann's left on the 3rd, MH rolled into the campground around suppertime on the 4th. Perps spent the night in MH, and left on the 5th.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 04:12:12 PM
I feel it is important wether SUV detached or not at minnowlake.If they drove into minnowlake with SUV detached that of course gives a deff and positive idea that there was 2 perps working together and trying to figure out how to rid of MH..If the perps knew the area they wouldnt of needed SUV driver to go search out a place to rid of MH..Vader knows that area so well he could drive the roads with his eyes closed....AS in my area. I have been here all my life. AND if i was wondering where to rid of a big MH I would know right away where to go...The perps made sure where they went was not to close to a town and aways off road. Minnowlake is 12 miles down RR150....Out of town area..Out of site.Wondering tho if they left minnowlake north back onto 16 then make another right onto RR144 where they burnt MH as it looks like there is no short cut to RR144 from RR150..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 04:25:15 PM
24Mindy:  Makes sense to me. Vader would know the back roads and the whole area. There were two (seen by old time camper)  Said he wished he could describe their faces, but was sure they were in their 30's and 40's. He saw two of them driving up front in the MH (I believe, sitting up front by the way that he talked).  It's enough to drive a person crazy isn't it?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 22, 2010, 04:30:56 PM
Shows how just a few more minute details could go so far. We need answers, answers that should be available. Why aren't they?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 04:40:48 PM
they will D1. look at your messages okay..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 06:01:03 PM
be careful SAP..I heard the roads are so bad..That would be great taking pics...I saw gas station too but on google and it is quite open..The thing is why would perps get them in st.albert then drive all the way to edson area. They could of gone off into any area before even wabamun.. Dont go on those roads if u you dont have to sap..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 22, 2010, 06:50:52 PM
I wonder if they hijacked them at the gas station in st. Albert.  Minnow Lake area, is only a small part of their territory that they know, I feel. That area is their stomping grounds and they figured they could use it, and probably had a thought as to where to park it.  They had a purpose in mind when they entered the MV, and it would have to do with drugs and money for sure! And OMG an SUV attached as well.  BONUS.  Question?  How did Vader get back to Edmonton to be with his sister?  He didn't own a car. People don't pick up hitchhikers.  Yet, he always had a way of getting around didn't he? By bike, whatever. Always stolen. I really feel that when the Maintenance guy knocked on the door twice, they realized that they had to clear out of there. Since no one saw the the MH on the main highway, once on their way out of the city, they may have taken over the wheel and used side roads  to get there.  Since they usually travel in stolen vehicles they would know back roads very well. It is a shame that the camper man could not identify their faces.  The MH is high up, and if he was standing on the ground, and from a distance he wouldn't be able to see their features.  but I believe him when he says he was sure there were two of them in the MV and they were not elderly. He said maybe in their 30's.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 22, 2010, 07:10:08 PM
My hubby came up with a good scenerio re:SUV.(I was wondering why it wasn't burned).      We all know the perps were using it until the McCanns were reported missing.   Hubby thinks the perps parked it, when not using it, there on Range Rd.#144 (NoExit Rd)(south of the TransCda.Hwy.).  Once they heard the McCanns disappearance on the news, they just never went back to the SUV.   Couldn't at that point, of course,the HEAT would be on.
 Hubby asked me where I would park a stolen car around here, and to be honest, the only place I could think of was in the closest busy place which is 25 km away.    He said..."Why not down in the bush on a dead end road?   It is close to the Hwy. for when they want to drive it, and hidden from the road, when they don't."...he went on..."You certainly wouldn't park it close to home"...True, I agree with that, not sure what to think of 'parking' it there when not in use.
That comment also got me to thinking a little more that maybe Vader's partner in crime lives SOUTH of the Trans Cda.Hwy....I'll have to 'google' around a little more in the south part of the area.
I also wonder if the SUV was found with or without the keys?

In reply to your post Jellybean, (I tried to submit mine same time)..The thing that puts me off thinking that the McCanns were hi-jacked in St Albert is that Vader's sister says he showed up on the 4th, and no mention of him being around previous to then.  Unless another perp did the original crime (kidnapping in St Albert)...and Vader stepped in at Niton Junction.
I asked that earlier, How did Vader get to his sister's?  She would not answer that when a reporter asked her, but the cops would know, and for some reason they are not saying.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 22, 2010, 07:53:23 PM
vader stole alot of vehicles..His last one on RR112 the day before he got arrested..How he got to his sisters only his sister knows.. The perps did stay south of 16 then north to carrot creek to rid of SUV..The thing is who knows when they parked it there. They wouldof needed another vehicle to go back and forth to get it. This was just their ditching place. Why there I dont know but since its near the areas of MH etc they just ditched it and took off in the other vehicle and gone. Gone home??? gone out of the area???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 02:30:51 AM
from SAP
Quote
I got a new camera that I need to put together and figure out how it works. I will then take photos of the area where McCann's gassed up as well as drive down the highway to Hinton. I'm a bit behind here as I also will be putting up other posters so I need to get organized and hope the weather is stable.

The weather has turned so bad hope you put it off SAP and or have travelling companions. WE have talked about that stretch of road for so long, it would be great if someone took the drive from that end with this in mind. Its different that searching your memory after the fact, this is more a real time live thing, where would that old trucker pull in, for what? Where did Vader and company even get the opportunity to pull this Off? Would love to see that little access road along the highway by Niton Junction, hear there are several gas stations, bathrooms anw etc.. all in a row beside the hotel. Maybe there is a perfect little spot that fits the bill somewhere along the trail. Nander and someone else suggested the new pullout by Nojack that just opened last spring.. Just be careful out there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 02:44:42 AM
From Jobo
Quote
Hubby asked me where I would park a stolen car around here, and to be honest, the only place I could think of was in the closest busy place which is 25 km away.    He said..."Why not down in the bush on a dead end road?   It is close to the Hwy. for when they want to drive it, and hidden from the road, when they don't."...he went on..."You certainly wouldn't park it close to home"...True, I agree with that, not sure what to think of 'parking' it there when not in use

This was also one of the stranger parts IMO, perhaps there is something to what hubby has to say Jobo?? It doesn't make sense in almost any other way except for maybe when it was left they intended to go back but something changed? Something like it was splattered all over the National News!

Because in some ways taking that country into consideration, this is right out Vader's back door. Not sure how to take this yet, were there keys in it? Were there even any prints in it? A fast convenient temporary parking spot, should have prints personal items etc left behind. It wouldn't have been cleaned that well if they were intending to return. If it was cleaned that well, no prints nothing, then i'd say it was deliberately ditched right there for whatever reason. Maybe the perp had to walk home?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 12:35:18 PM
The suv left behind in the manner it was poses more questions than we have answers. SAP brings up an issue that has been skirted around before. Who's who in the zoo up there? People know way more than what is being said but $60,000 doesn't do a dead guy much good!

from a PG. ha report: this site is a good introduction to whats what behind the scenes:
http://gangstersout.blogspot.com/2010/02/loving-dad-shot-and-killed-waiting.html (http://gangstersout.blogspot.com/2010/02/loving-dad-shot-and-killed-waiting.html)
Quote
Now, on to the root of the problem. If this guy was involved with drugs in Prince George, then he was involved with the Hells Angels. The police and the media claim that no one can sell drugs in Prince George without the Hells Angels permission. We are told that the Renegades are a puppet club for the Hells Angels in PG that sell drugs and the Crew is another group affiliated with the Renegades and the Hells Angels that sell crack in Prince George.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 01:18:31 PM
reward money wouldnt do no druggy anygood alright dead. Its not enough either...Takes quite a bit to make anyone talk and im sure who ever is in charge of everything up there regarding drugs can prob make 60,000 pretty fast on their own and whos going to risk their families. They just dont go to that fink but his whole family would be targeted. So someone talking just isnt going to happen..All thats gone on is guessing this and that.Just a total merry-go-round of the same stuff actually..The search is called off for now but saying police still on it...Until better weather....Your guess is good as mine right now as where the mccanns MH was taken over and why they had to be killed...perps had to of been quite desperate to take over a MH and kill 2 people.Thats not the minds of family men with kids but who knows.So many diff theories that are all good ..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 02:09:19 PM
I firmly believe that the RCMP have their own intelligence units working on this.  Believe me, when this comes to a conclusion there will be multiple arrests. The perps that harmed the MCCann's and many others within the circle.  I know that we would like this to come to a speedy conclusion, that I doubt, because when the RCMP clean up - they clean up big time.
And society will be a safer place for it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
In an ideal world that may have once been true, maybe not that many years ago I might have even believed likewise. Hopefully they haven't put all their horsies back in the barn for winter yet! We will see...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 23, 2010, 02:42:03 PM
The authorities never stop.     If I was one of those clowns in kahoots with Vader, I would be constantly looking over my shoulder.  Never know what LE has up their sleeve, and that is good, 'cause we want these guys arrested.

By the way, I love picking hubby's brain when it comes to trying to figure out some of these crimes.   I know one thing....we certainly look at things differently (not sure why we married ;)) .....but I appreciate his take on things....;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 05:13:46 PM
Jobo: You are right about RCMP, and even our own City Police. We can poke fun at them at times when they appear to screw up,  However what kind of world would we have to face, when we walk out the door each morning without them?  Just supposing young men and women wanted to have a career in anything but police work? What if every man and woman also didn't want to join the services? - or the fire department?
RCMP are bucking against small town folk "too afraid to talk" - so are City Police.  It is not an easy profession to choose.  Yes, there is room for improvement.  They are well aware of that.  But, I sleep better at night, knowing that patrol cars are out there when I am sleeping. and that I can call 911 and some help will be on the way.  I am not a dreamer.  We have a personal responsibility to protect our belongings, and not place ourselves in harms way through spur of the moment unsafe actions, compulsions, whatever.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 23, 2010, 05:23:27 PM
I just said on Sonia's thread, that the OPP and Town Police all associate with us civilians through our/their children's sports and school etc.   That is a good thing, as people do talk, and get to know who's who.    I am not sure what it is like with the RCMP, but like I said the cops around my neck of the woods in Ontario end up knowing a lot of people, I am sure.  It works.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 05:51:28 PM
I get all that, we would all like to believe that to be true, but not everyone's experience has reflected that reality. Perhaps those other cases were just anonmalies and perhaps they are indicative of something else? We just let those ones slide by in hopes that it was a one off deal and then expect it to never happen again. Unfortunately by the time anyone gets around to recognizing it as such, it's is always too late! I'll defer to an earlier post on personal perceptions and enclose a link to one of the worst case examples out there.
from bludrulz-


[url=http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg48512.html#msg48512]http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg48512.html#msg48512 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg48512.html#msg48512)[/url]

Quote
Perhaps Vader is really just in protective custody, the investigation a charade? If you don’t believe the police would be involved in protecting someone like that, you just haven’t been around enough. Your own perceptions are tainted by the taste of apple pie. Not everyone wants to sit in on an organized crime / HA / RCMP rat discussion even if they could, but that’s where the bread gets buttered.

If you were this family, think you'd feel the same way about the RCMP?

After the RCMP washed the dna evidence from this murdered little girl's clothes, the rcmp informant accused of this crime was acquitted!
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4133.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4133.0.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
cute JB..lol..My hubby says' "have u found the Mccanns yet"? he sees me on the comp steady...He,s right when he says they are gone and the animals up there are not to nice...Im telling u something that pretains to where the Mccanns are.This is thru a vision.They are at a cabin with a oil  barrell next to cabin.with hill behind it and have been thrown down either a old well,cliff edge...Hunters cabin ??????? Are all hunters out. They need to check their wells.Everyone on way off roads in deep should be checking wells etc...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 23, 2010, 06:50:29 PM
not to upset anyone close to the family - however; Baba mentioned sometime way back about outhouses.  She is so right.  Everybody who loves cabins and nature - or has grown up in a rural environment - knows that anything you want to disappear (which is organic) goes into outhouse holes - where the owners usually dump bags of lime regularly to keep away rodents and fly investigation.  Nobody will ever bother to check out the contents.... when the hole is too full, cabin owners just dig or blast a new hole and move the tiny building - using the newly dug dirt to cover the old hole.  Cabin owners around this coast would often include a transplanted tree to quickly settle the ground and keep it safe.  ....just a thought - but it only takes two guys to tip it up and anchor it while they push in a weighted-down body.  ....sorry for the gruesome analogy, but I wonder if such places have been considered.  While I was writing this, my mind lapsed back to the pic a remote viewer put forward and I re-posted.  It has the burned out trailer in it..... a seemingly "hidden vehicle" and an outhouse in the background.  This is the trailer that was set ablaze right after the couples disappearance, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 07:01:32 PM
where was this trailer lost and when was it set on fire..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 08:11:49 PM
24Mindy:  If you have looked over my threads, you will note that I had suggested, old wells, and septic tanks.  It would take neighbour co-operation to do that. Along with a request by cops to do that. Old sheds = outhouses, places where people don't use the facilities any more. MY deep concern is the rampant use of drugs, break-ins, car thefts, hijackings, not only in cities, but also in smaller commuities.  In smaller communities they are held captive.
Many of the perps have families who are good living people, and their neighbours do not want to turn their neighbour sons or daughter's in.  They must get along with each other, or ignore each other, and isolate each other, but to protect their own, they will not say anything.  And that is unfortunately at their own peril.  Yes, there are people with warrant's out for their arrest for petty theft due to drugs.  They will let that slide, and pick
 them up when they are ready to.  These for the most part are harmless people with an addiction.  The cops know where they reside.   Alberta has a new program for drug addiction.  I saw it on the internet.  It is new and I will have to find the thread to post it.
Drug dealers rob of our children (regardless of their ages) they are still our kids, and the families are left with heart ache and concern. And that is what angers me. Over and out. I stand my ground.
These seniors , the McCann's are no longer a part of this world, they are in a different place, and I am sure that the McCann family realizes that.  They will be found, not in our time frame, but they will be found.  Meanwhile the family will have to cope.  And coping and hoping they are. 
We just keep going around in circles trying to solve this mystery, I say that it will be revealed in due time. By the way, I don't believe in visions.  I have had a few about close family members only, some were right on, and others were wrong. It is gut feeling, perception, that is my way of looking at things.  I leave that up to true phsyics, of which they are very rare.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 23, 2010, 08:23:05 PM
This was on the first thread; it was a pic the remote viewer from USA posted.  She claims she messaged the police that they need to look at this property.... no way of knowing if they ever did.

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.615.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.615.html)

Again, I wonder if this deserted property (supposedly near the airport) was even "looked at" by anyone since the couple's disappearance?

Quote
I never did figure out the "sunglasses" clue, but couldn't help but wonder if one of these jerks couldn't help themselves and "kept" one or both of the McCann's sunglasses.  ....might be somebody wearing their jewellery as well???

then there's the "airplane" or "airport" clue.... don't remember which, but there are a few little airports around there.  I found it hit home with me when a poster on another site remarked that (that old deserted trailor with the Blue TransAm or Pontiac whatever parked hidden in the trees next to the toilet)  is located by Edson airport.  That picture really is odd because the trailor is clearly deserted and not fit to live in.... yet the fairly new looking blue car clearly appears to be deliberately hidden from easy view.

Another fact I thought I'd mention is that Vader's step child stated that Vader's truck was "reposessed" but he had been living in a fifth wheel at some point.  So he would surely be used to hauling or driving a big trailor.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:08:52 PM by lostlinganer »
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 08:37:06 PM
actually since summer i have also felt wells etc but wells are everywhere. Are they at hunters cabins. ya i have a friend who mentioned out houses months ago but thats a bit of work. An old well much easiarIm sure most property owners have checked their places by now but doubt perps would of gone on someone elses property ..Dont know that area but how can anyone tell if a area of land is goverment or belonging to someone?? Knowing that area, the perps would be able to pick a place way out of area knowing no one would be around til winter or if ever..HOW FAR do these hunters go??? Are they close to the area or quite a long ways away. Whitecourt area or so?? Someone must know where the hunters mostly go. I sure dont.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 08:42:26 PM
What are wells made of out there. Old ones.new ones..I heard concrete or steal..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 08:43:25 PM
Lostlinger: I have stated my case on this thread.  These perps did not take the main highway all of  the way to Minnow Lake from St. Albert. This MV was very noticeable. The color of it stood out.  You know how most MV's today are beige nothing special about them, but the McCann's were blue or green, not a dull colour, run of the mill at all. I would remember it, for sure.  And since I would remember it, even if my dates were screwed up, it would have been a start.  But no one has reported seeing it.  Now these yahoos, know back roads.  We think in a normal way, straight down the well traveled highway, straight as an arrow to our destination.  The perps don't think the same way, they travel by the side roads.  They know them well. DI and Mindy have done a great job figuring out the logistics. They have spent research on road maps etc. But I hope the police are way ahead of them.
 And these two posters obviously know the area.... you just never know.  As for me, personally, I am a frustrated citizen sick and tired of Druggies ruining otherwise good lives and caring families/
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 08:58:41 PM
Whatever we think we know, I have no doubt the Police are way ahead of us. What they want us to know may be a different story.
Mindy,
Quote
?? Knowing that area, the perps would be able to pick a place way out of area knowing no one would be around til winter or if ever..HOW FAR do these hunters go??? Are they close to the area or quite a long ways away. Whitecourt area or so?? Someone must know where the hunters mostly go. I sure dont.

Hunters go wherever they want to, all over, high and low. The problem is this country is huge, mile after mile of timber and bush stretching beyond the ability of the hunting population to cover. There just aren't enough hunters in proportion to the area. One may get lucky but that time has pretty well ended, the snow is here to stay.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 09:20:31 PM
The McCann's want to find their parents.  There is a $60,00 reward.  Now they haven't stipulated the rules. You are right 24 Mindy or DI, there is no way that a drug system will claim it. The McCann's have good intentions, but it will be a case of "stumbled upon", as is often the case when people are missing for any length of time.  A kid looking down an abandoned well, a farmer going to an old shed. A farmer removing an old out house. The list goes on.

Peace JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on November 23, 2010, 09:37:18 PM
I agree jellybean... also have to agree the police know volumes more than we'll ever be privy to until it's all said and done;  you can bet they have their plan in action as we speak.  It may have started with dumb cops, but something tells me we're in for a surprise.  ..... one of these junkies will talk.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 09:41:01 PM
JB: thanks for nice comment of me and D1..You are so right as they did not staying on main highway..There are so many back roads and the main highway to back roads close by is 32 thru peers...They more than enough options to back roads this route...Im beginning to think that the Mccanns werent killed but thrown down something meeting their death in a terrifying way...The thing is why a well or whatever and not water. theres enough water around there. OR are these places not that deep and bodies would be found to easy floating back up..If using water it would be a place where theres a current fast enough to carry them far away..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 10:05:55 PM
I suspect the road you are looking at Mindy is where a lot of the McCaan's search efforts were concentrated. There is a back route right from Minnow lake up to the highway. I wonder whether this road was good enough to travel in a motorhome without attracting more attention than if it just stayed to the more main range rd. 150. Maybe at night the motorhome could travel that route in secret but I don't know what the road is like. The suv could easily travel range rd. #133 either way by the look of things.

this map is a good starting point to see all the possible routes.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Minnow+Lake,+Alberta&sll=53.479057,-115.998459&sspn=0.191241,0.438766&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Minnow+Lake&z=13 (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Minnow+Lake,+Alberta&sll=53.479057,-115.998459&sspn=0.191241,0.438766&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Minnow+Lake&z=13)


below- this is a map showing the general relationship between a few key points, (excuse the art work)  to get more detail click the blue "jpg nitmap". red is possible route of mohome, blue the suv. let me know if something is way off.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 23, 2010, 10:45:48 PM
DI, and Mindy:  By gosh, I think you have their route down pat!!  Makes sense, and God Bless.  Side roads, think side roads, all of the time with these types.Now if that were myself, heading that route, I would only know the direct route by the MAP. Never knowing, as many travelers are unaware of,  that there are side roads that will bring you to the same spot but less to traffic, almost no one on the roads, but perhaps a farmer with a tractor trying to go down the country road to get to another field .Remember this was a very stand out MV.  All the signs Have you seen the McCann;s  on the main highway produced nothing.  Side roads would be the best place to go. Should there be a farmer on the side road has too much in mind to notice anything distinctive. Just move over, and keep in own lane.  Right?  May not have been any farmer on side road. Just free and clear!!

Peace
JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 23, 2010, 11:01:49 PM
Yes, could be some witnesses no one knows of out there along some back route. I have no idea what those roads are like though. On the surface they seem viable. If so, it may be the best route to search for the McCaan's. Any overnight hiding spots out there?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 23, 2010, 11:46:21 PM
very good D1..Already told bret to search RR132, the very end.. Your map is awesome.have one on paper but need to put on larger area..The perps arrived at minnowlake in the daytime summer time daylight evening..Best poss route was always south tho but they did come from the north tho from backroad. Dont know why they would of traveled during the day unless they didnt know area as good happeneing to come across minnow lake sign on road and how far it was to get there but like I said why that lake. Because they were close to it coming off the north end of 16...Where they came from had to of been close to Minnow lake and I presume highway 32 as north is where they came from..Working more in daylight shows they may not of known area...They left their hiding place knowing they were going to rid of MH or went to minnowlake to think more? They were already in a good hiding area so why head south and not stayed north of 16 as there was plenty of places to Burn MH anywhere else but minnow lake area..Since bodies werent found in burnt Mh shows the Mccanns werent in Mh at minnow lake unless taken out during the middle of the night...Who knows what went on during the night at minnow lake .Why did they even take the time to back into the site instead of just driving in forward..It was a big enough site and no one would of cared and it wouldnt be out of the norm. They sure went to the trouble of trying to back in a Mh..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 12:18:25 AM
they would of had to travel back roads during the day if they didnt know area that good. They may of even been hiding still south but more jasper way which would mean Mccanns could be out of this area still on the south. after riding of MH they prob dumped SUV that same night as carrot creek is right there but north of 16..map out back roads D1 staying south towards jasper way.. dont have time tonight but will do so tom morning.If they came from north tho it had to of been on 32 or back road but didnt see one...Like I said i just have small route map going and need to transfer it.. By the way. TIPTON on my daughters show is a fancey hotel but she just told me tonight its also a cruise ship on a diff show but with same characters..Its the TIPTON SS..This tipton could just be saying about vader or where the Mccanns had been hijacked.if so either way perps would of taken Mh and SUV to the north immediatley..right at the hijacking point rather than traveling south unless there is a road to south of niton. The towns are north of 16. . It makes sense to stay south but depends on where perps got MH then heading north makes sense not traveling on 16 getting off of it fast.....which means prob heading north to hide out and do what they did to Mccanns.. :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 01:58:53 AM
I just mapped out some of the basic stuff, the factual things that we can mostly agree on. The vehicle direction of travel, i just pointed at the easiest straightest fastest route between event locations..

Mindy I take it you have come to the conclusion the perps did not know the area?
Quote
they would of had to travel back roads during the day if they didnt know area that good.

The map sure seems to make it clear just how close this all happened to Vaderville. TV is named as the only suspect, he knows the area well. Unless Vader is being setup, it sure points at him..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 11:12:54 AM
Im not sure D1 id they are from the area. Like I have said, the characteristics of their actions will prove that.So far it looks like they traveled during the day to get to minnowlake..Before this they had hid out somewhere coming poss from the north of highway..They could of gone to chiplake but didnt.Lots of places to go.If they had known minnowlake they would of known a person comes around to colect or by being quiet inside would make it look like they werent in Mh..Doing big map this morning. Im sure your will differ in someways...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 24, 2010, 11:16:52 AM
Did they "hide" it? Or, since the McCanns hadnt been noticed missing, camper units are every other vehicle on the road at this time of year, especially if they took the SUV off, it would be just like the 1000's of others in the area.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 11:36:05 AM
Could have been hiding in plain sight even? I am still not convinced there wasn't something to the earlier report from the fisherman at chip lake. Wonder why it has been ruled out, the fisherman seemed so sure that was the same motorhome.

Mindy re:
Quote
Doing big map this morning. Im sure your will differ in someways...

Trying to just get to a commonly agreed upon set of facts to work from. If I have gotten some of that wrong, point it out and I can correct it. Its tough to get the entire area on one map with enough detail to fit on a computer screen. Another map starting at minnow lake may be an idea.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on November 24, 2010, 11:36:15 AM
D1, you are a genius and they should have you in the investigation boardroom when they have all of their meetings concerning this case. Your map and your setup as to the route they could have taken is astonishing. I congratulate you on your hard work. I surely do think with all of this information, there is a possibility that someone may find the McCann's. If the timeline could just be brokendown, as you've all stated before, as to when they actually ran into trouble. The timeline of point A to point B. I think the McCann's ran into trouble very quickly after they gassed up. And maybe the police are watching certain individuals, because they may expect to collect on the reward. They could be setting someone up to the exact spot, so they can accept the reward for finding them. You all are certainly doing great work to get this case solved, great work. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 11:53:19 AM
D1: doing great so far. It is hard to do maps from google getting it all in one area so im going to do it on big poster paper and try to find a good alberta road map..Go as far as sprucegrove to.Back roads are deff the areas to come off 16 fast..Ones that co-inside with meeting up with areas on the south. Looks like they tried staying away from towns.Feeling theres a woman involved now too.possibley...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 12:02:20 PM
Much too kind of you Cape, but thnx. Would love to be able to get to this point:
Quote
If the timeline could just be brokendown, as you've all stated before, as to when they actually ran into trouble. The timeline of point A to point B.


We had so much trouble coming up with a starting point, talked around every possibility for so long and just couldn't quite get there, so the other option if possible, is to work backwards from what we know and hope that will lead to a viable possibility. So far, we are finding explanations that end up retracing where the police and the McCaan's have already been. As we catch up, we realize they are just as stymied as us.

After all that has been said, and all the news reports and latest videos that have come out, I don't like that we have not been told or shown one solid piece of anything linking Vader to this crime. I know the legal reasons and all that, just don't like the feeling of grappling with this in the dark.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 24, 2010, 02:54:11 PM
Love your map D1.   I had printed one at home and was using it, as it certainly helps me keep my bearings in Yellowhead Country.   Now everyone can clearly see what has been determined so far, and where and when.

Wonder if Vader has any buddies living south of the Trans Cda. Hwy.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
thanx jobo, wasn't until I made that map til I finally realized what you all were saying about the south of the highway possibilities. If chip lake sighting is definitely ruled out, south gathers a lot more interest.. who's who down that way??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 04:33:23 PM
yes..stay south D1
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 05:45:30 PM
From where did the person see smoke fro MH burning..Was he on a range rd or 16..They say it happened off RR144 ..They said minnowlake campground area so it would of happened off RR150 not RR144..dont get that.someone fibbing.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 24, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
what does Vaders criminal history look like?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 08:50:43 PM
have no idea on whats going on with vader
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 24, 2010, 09:05:10 PM
we know he's an arsonist.. just am interested in what else he's been convicted of
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
The basis charges according to that news article were:
Quote
Vader had at least four warrants for his arrest, all unrelated to the McCann case.

He's facing a laundry list of theft and weapons charges, according to Alberta Courts.

Among several alleged crimes, he's facing two counts of possession of stolen property, possession of a weapon, possession of a controlled substance, careless use of a firearm, unlawful use of a firearm, obstructing a peace officer and driving a motor vehicle unauthorized following an August 2009 incident in Wildwood, about 37 km east of Niton Junction.

He was also charged last month with two counts of possession of stolen property, three of unauthorized possession of a firearm and two for careless use or storage of a firearm for a June 15 crime in Barrhead, 150 km northeast of Niton Junction.

Charges like these always have more to them than the charge suggests:
"careless use of a firearm, unlawful use of a firearm", there would be witnesses, and complainants. Vader had been escalating and getting away with it. He was getting out of control and in his own mind may have felt invincible. If Vader is involved, his state of mind was near the desperado, who gives a &#@#$ k state. You got money? too bad now you don't!

If for instance the motorhome was just used for an all night dope session, and the suv just detached and used on the return trip, reversing occam's razor principle should lead you right back to the origins of the whole thing. No other car to return home in, how do you get there? Maybe the suv had been there the whole time, just never found? or??? the police knew it was there the whole time, were watching it, and delayed reporting the disappearance to see if someone would return for it?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 10:53:21 PM
re: SAP's thoughts on the relationship between the dope simple mind and the occan's razor principle ,( The principle is popularly summarized as "the simplest explanation is more likely the correct one".)

Interesting way to look at it for predicting behaviour. The doper, reduced to the basic operating elements, falls into a category of mathematical probability generalized by this principle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 10:55:50 PM
MH could of been a fun place for a bit until they realized what had happened..Now its panic time and to get into reality...The knock on the MH door did it..I still think that them traveling in the day on highway or backroads was still risky getting to minnow lake and burn area which really wasnt far away...Once dumping SUV they prob had to hike it out...If vader was involved he wouldnt of had a vehicle to help them unless he stole one or called his girlfriend....BUT then vader was at his sisters on the 4th RIGHT????? 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 11:05:36 PM
Yep, thats the one Mindy! Something doesn't quite fit right.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
Do like this thought though, the suv was left awful close to highway and peers junction Niton junction.
Quote
Once dumping SUV they prob had to hike it out...If vader was involved he wouldnt of had a vehicle to help them unless he stole one or called his girlfriend
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 11:23:46 PM
The thing is this has all happened in vaders area. coincidence  or probability of another vader offense..He steals and sets vehicles on fire yet in his head remains inocent.....Druggies even beleive their own lies. They get off on their own fantasies...There was the thrill of the moment...Since the trees are so dense up there with those cut lines they didnt take MH into bush but off road on a gravel road as far deep in as they could.Someone mentioned to me about memorial park on 32. It has hills, water,cliff like areas and tons of turn offs. Doubt perps wanted to go to far from the area but just far enough to rid of the Mccanns on less likely used backroads..Most drug related perps have the same characteristics BUT can also depend on the drug as some alter your mind more than others. Druggies are out for themselves..The mccanss could of pleaded till the cows came home but perps wouldnt of cared...I would say for some reason that theres a possiblity that the perps took over MH using a female .Working on route map...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 24, 2010, 11:34:49 PM
exactly D1. very close to 16.is there any building at carrot creek?/ A phone?..Did they use a gas station phone..If they did that perosn should remember 2 people coming in needing phone on that night...I mean its not safe walking out in that neck of woods..lol..Did they actually take the time to clean the SUV..didnt have to if driven straight to carrot creek after burn..So SUV seen leaving driven by one perp following MH or the opposite means only 2 perps..Now if the perps lived in area im sure they called someone they knew close by. If not from area how do u explain how u got out there to a friend or family member..How did they even get to area to take over MH??? Obviously the perps not to well off without a vehicle and not very well planned out....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 24, 2010, 11:54:13 PM
SAP may be going out that way in the next while. Carrot creek junction isn't too far past Niton junction. A cell phone would have done, if anyone had one?

Back to the simple theory, maybe the motorhome was parked at the same place where the suv was found for the first day when it was stolen?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 12:05:56 AM
Mmmmm..to much mud on the SUV.That area looked tree cut..To have mud on SUV it was traveling on a muddy dirt road for quite a distance and MH would of been same way ...What days was it raining up there..What was the weather like on the 3rd??? Area where Mh was burned was full of mud.You can tell by the tracks that Mh slid before it came to a stop ..Did Mh get stuck on the way into dead end cut line having to rev it out of a rut as tracks show....that would explain mud on SUV too...road was pretty thick with mud. Mh was meant for 4x4 ing.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Diana on November 25, 2010, 01:01:17 AM
Is there anything known about TV's birth mother? In a previous post it showed a ancestery link. Her names Barbara and it seems like she was from TX?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 01:26:22 AM
know one knows where vaders birth mother is. well at least us. she is prob glad she is far away from this all.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 10:27:29 AM
google is so slow at updating.I just keep getting 2009.On satelitte there are darker green spots that have been updated to 2010. just dont know what month..have talked to google. France does  these pics..will check what u saw .Perps may of had a vehicle but hidden..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 12:01:24 PM
carrot creek gas station seems to be on the south side of 16.trying to make out the name on the gas station..Another south side perp thing staying away from the towns on the north .
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 01:13:11 PM
It was jellybean who suggested side roads. As for myself who has traveled through that area, I would have to stick to major routes. Because without a map, I  couldn't find my way out of a wet paper bag. You are doing great!! I stand by my case, they did the side roads. I have a very strong feeling about that.

Peace JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 01:21:37 PM
Question:  If the perps in the MV used the McCann's cell phone to make a contact , perhaps the contact number will end up on the McCann's cell phone record.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 01:30:06 PM
Sticking with ths simplest fastest route theory but using backroads,
map one starts at rr134 right beside the carrot creek junction, near where the suv was discovered.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 01:31:50 PM
Map number two starts at the minnow lake end where the motorhome was discovered. the blue dots intersect in the middle of the two maps connecting both events. Just couldn't fit it all on one.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 01:40:27 PM
Sticking with the simple theory, suppose we use the spot where the suv was discovered as the potential base of operations for the first day the McCaan's went missing. It appears to afford a big enough hiding spot for the motorhome, is very close to the highway, Niton Junction Peers etc..

What would the perps want to do immediately after taking over? Go get dope? So stay in the vicinity, near dealer, just out of sight, maybe the McCaan's even alive at this point. Not concerned about murder charges, just the usual Vader type escalation in progress. They get dope and blow a day right there. Something happens and the motorhome ends up at minnow lake. see maps for other possible routes, the above are the straightest most direct route.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 01:43:09 PM
wow D1..great minds think alike...lol..got that already..really good...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 01:49:04 PM
DI yep you might be right about them doping up at Minnow lake. MCann's might have been in MV, as I suggested, and that is why they didn't answer the door.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 01:51:17 PM
Question again:  If th eperps inadvertently used the McCann's cell phone to make contact,  would there be a record of that call on the MCCann's cell records?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 01:53:13 PM
By the way, I am sure the RCMP is watching the buzz on the network., which would include this website.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 01:58:01 PM
you can get pre paid "disposable" cell phones from walmart....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 01:58:38 PM
Im not sure the perps were thinking much on dope. The MH was so full of evidence that they had to burn it.As everything seems to be on the south side of 16 that shows the mccanns may be too..Getting to carrot creek from minnow lake seems solved but which direction did they go to minnowlake. Same route? off 16 down RR150? If Mccanns were still in MH at minnow lake then they may of been dumped in minnowlake in the middle of the night or along the route you are showing D1
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 02:00:04 PM
if you wanted to hide the McCanns.. would you put them in the same area you dumped the vehicles... I believe that the McCanns would be found away from the area the vehicles were found in. I dont think that they wanted to go back anywhere near where they left them.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 02:03:55 PM
Annastasia:  I think that you right. They would have left the area, lickity split, as to where they placed the remains of the MCCann's.  Upon reflection, I believe that you are right on!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 02:14:40 PM
Its too bad that we dont have access to odometer readings, as has been stated before, I am certain that they would have kept records on the vehicles with service etc. We know almost enough of the where abouts (at least of the motorhome by witnesses) to figure out  the kms and could take a well educated guess about the unaccounted for ones. I doubt it survived the inferno.
Thanks JB :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 02:31:47 PM
called the carrot creek gas station. Bret had been there long ago posting a poster asking her questions..All she could say was the whole area was in fear especially the older people...Vey nice lady at gas station but asian so english only okay...She said no one even talking about it in that area...She couldnt say if SUV found south or north nd she didnt see MH. She is only open till 8 at night sometimes in summer till 8;30 as she doesnt get much business.SO if perps needed phone she would of been closed. dont see payphone outside tho either. Using the mccanns cell phone would of been bad move. can be traced. perps not that dumb..Prob a pay as u go..who knows...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 02:54:43 PM
24MIndy:  They all live in fear. That is my point. she didn't see anything, and she said that she is afraid for  seniors, kind remark, but it could have been a young family as well,  The point is in my mind, it could have been anyone being hijacked. And that is also scary.  These druggies saw the opportunity and they took it. Seniors or not. How my heart goes out to this family. You know we travel on a highway, feeling safe and secure, looking ahead to our destination.  We plan everything, as I have, snacks, sweets, rest stops.  Tired?  We will pull over and rest,  roads bad? rain ?  We will set up our bunks and sleep at night. Get up in am and cook breakfast in our little MV and be on the way in the am. So innocent, and feeling so safe and secure!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 02:58:41 PM
yes its only obvious they hid Mccanns off road but determining south as everything else has been south..Sounds like they stayed away from towns..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 03:05:31 PM
Where and when were the McCaan's seperated from the motorhome is a good question to think about, it leads into more....

Weaving the behavioural aspects in with the evidence does provide some interesting possibilities. Some things just don't fit right yet no matter how you fit them together..there seem to be inconsistencies maybe just dope related or ? ? ?

The motorhome disappeared for about 24 hours before showing up at minnow lake. First dope session? Then its there at minnow for about another 24 hours. Second doping session? They had to straighten out a bit in between carrot and minnow just to drive and if McCaan's were not gone by then would be during that days drive. If bodies required  disposal, they have to take the back route to Minnow. The main highway is just too busy in the daytime if that was a requirement. No problem if bodies were already gone.

Weaving the dope simple theory into the evidence and coming up with a potential route does seem possible. Defining the dopers probable bahaviour could answer some more questions.

Bodies disposed of on the first night 3rd?
Next day on drive 4th?
Overnite morning at minnow 4th/5th?
Torched in the moho and cops blew evidence recovery 5th?
Perps had access to a boat 4th/ 5th?

Now if someone wants to give bandana dave a call and see how much and what kind of dope Vader purchased on the third, maybe his behaviour over the next 24 hours could be better understood.



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 03:07:32 PM
I think they disposed of the bodies right away. It wasnt the focus of the crime, and it was an "oh shit!" moment. I think it sobered them quite quickly, they disposed of the McCanns and went to dope... to erase the memories.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 03:09:19 PM
JB; What This woman was saying is that she knew of elderly people leaving their own homes and going elsewhere. Sure everyone was in fear. Scared of vader..Everyone knew that long ago..Also what Im stating is when dumping SUV at carrot creek that if perps hiked it out and used this gas station for a phone IT would of been CLOSED...That confirmes phone acess close by, unavailable to them if no cells as gas station would of been closed at 8 or 8:30 as she said...Unless they made it there in time to station just after burning MH..This woman of course cant remember that far back as far as seeing anyone coming in on the 5th later eveing...Perps could of had their own vehicle hidden where they put SUV also...Who knows.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 03:22:34 PM
Moho w found burning at around 7 pm, how long a drive back from minnow lik. to carrot cr.?

Annasty - The ahh shit moment would override the go get dope reflex in my mind. You'd get away from the scene or get the scene away from you right then and there. Get the f... outa there asap. Pretty cold and stunned s.o.b who could dope up sitting with a couple of bodies or in the middle of a murder scene in a stolen motorhome. I suspect bodies were disposed of on the first night before the motorhome was driven the next day too. Unless the McCaan's had somehow survived the first day and disposal required on day two. . No fires reported in the vicinity on the first night?

They didn't torch moho on day one or two.. near carrot creek, only after getting it over to minnow. Maybe moho was parked somewhere the first night that could link or lead back to the perps identity and or whereabouts at the time? Had to move it before burning it, it was most likely the murder scene and may have been too close to home for comfort.

Maybe smart would dispose of bodies north while disposing of vehicles south to lead the investigation away?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 03:25:39 PM
24Mindy:  Are you sure that people are moving away from that area?  Where did you get that?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 03:37:45 PM
If your going to hijack a Mh or anything else of course there is going to be a defending fight. Lyle would of taken them on as best as he could..marie may of tried but would of been pushed aside.They most likely got lyle first, marie last. Lyle would of put up a pretty good fight...The perps could of just taken what they wanted and left BUT NO.They had to take it all..Would of made it easiar for the Mccanns looking for them to find MH and SUV or without SUV on the side of the road or behind a building..You dont rob a house with people in it then try to take house with you. So where ever they apprehended the MH it sure wasnt in plain view..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 04:02:22 PM
Thats what I am saying D1... this wasnt a sexual sado killing. They would NOT revisit to relive the glory and get off. They will stay clear away from the area. So to find the McCanns, lets look where  Vader did NOT go (of his known where abouts). I dont think they sparked one right then and there.  I am a smoker. When i am dealing with a very stressful situation, I am auto pilot to get the job done then go for a cigarette or 5.
When thinking behaviourally - do NOT think of how you yourself would handle this. Dont think logically or rationally or with knowledge of crime scene investigation. You are panicked, you are probably high and you know you need to get rid of the bodies. Years of doping have cripped any logical or rational thought patterns.
Idk if they would fight Mindy. They were elderly and we are constantly taught if someone is trying to rob us, to not fight. Give them what they want and leave alive - material possessions can be regained. I do think that when they were confronted they were seperated and the other McCann walked in on the crime in process. I think the first kill was an accident - the second was neccessity. Now you've gotta get rid of them. Its one thing to be caught in a stolen vehicle - another to be caught with bodies. Dump the bodies, ditch your clothes and hide the vehicles. Get dope. Grab friend you can trust. Get high. Continue with your business. Sudden interest in the news. Its been a few days. You're gonna get caught. Torch MH. Need money. Go to PG and pick up dope for dealer. Still nothing in the news. Get cocky, take vehicle everywhere you go. Go to sisters. Everything is normal...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 04:04:44 PM
JB: didnt say people moving away. this woman at the gas station said she knew of elderly people just going where it was safe like a relatives etc..people prob have moved from that area...But like any area even mine u can run from all this. Drugs and gangs everywhere..D1..north makes sense but at the time doubt they were thinking sensible enough to think we better do this and that just in case ..if they were doped up enough to rob a MH, kill, and burn Mh , they were not sensable enough to come up with normal thinking driven ideas. Only ideas now of like someone said OH SH....T..!!!!!!!!! AND who knows..Maybe they were burned in MH. police botched that up there so bad tho and the rain would of washed alot away.THO I HEARD that it would take quite a hot fire to really destroy a body as even cremating still doesnt burn a body leaving some bones that need to be crushed..Like what kind of people would want to rob people then steal a big MH except for fun..You dont have to be on drugs to be a retard...Did anyone hear about anyone escaping a institution??? Did vader leave the area knowing what was going on and wanted to look like he had nothing to do with it .What ever they have on vader to make him a suspect is so small..Well since MH was burnt and nothing was found in SUV how could they link vader to it, upgrading him to a suspect..No one is saying they saw vader on the 4th in area going against what his sister said.The perps chose minnowlake for unknown reasons, chose to burn MH close by for unknown reasons then to go further to where they could get away easy by dumping SUV at carrot creek..No one can cover their tracks that good but vader said he could..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 04:10:25 PM
Mindy - I am prone to believe that he wasnt after the motorhome at all... I think his intent was to just take the SUV for drug running to PG. I think things took a turn for the worst when he was happened upon by the owners. I think he took the MH because he had to, and then utilized it. I dont think that the McCanns were in the MH when it burnt. He would have gotten rid of that right away, especially in case in his absence someone found it.
I dont think this crime was planned. It shows great disorganization. I do think that the only reason he hasnt been charged with anything is because he has horseshoes up his ass.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 04:32:13 PM
of course lyle would of wrestled a bit. Trying to defend himself prob got him killed.Minnowlake is a fishing place vader had been to also so he knew area..Hard to put him in this picture with his sister saying he was with her on the 4th..Isnt it funny how other campers but this camper on video didnt see MH...9 sites and no one saw MH??these are huge sites too...Were all the campers on the lake fishing all day and night in the rain??? I would also say perps werent to nice to inside of MH either. Prob trashed it good..Look how police lied too about burnt MH off RR144 when it wasnt. Stop people from going there.??So perps were avoiding the main roads..They got MH and quickly took backroad.Wouldnt of had to of been to far but enough to just find a good hiding place...from the 3rd morning to the 4th late afternoon.Guttsy to stay the night at minnow lake...Maybe they were chased off from where they had been hidden..If they had disposed of the Mccanns right away, why stay hidden so long then all of a sudden come out of hiding and go to minnowlake? Why didnt they dispose of MH that day of the 3rd or even the evening...OR were Mccanns still alive and not killed till later..Riding around in a MH with dead bodies, staying the night at minnow lake wouldnt of been any joy ride..A dead body starts to really stink in a 24 hr period.I know that because my moms renter passed without anyone knowing and when found, doors opened ,my moms place stunk so bad it was aweful...All your functions come out too making smell worse so doubt they stayed in MH with dead smelly bodies..They would of rid of them right away..It took days to get that death smell out of my moms from the basement suite.He passed about 10 or so that night and found in afternoon the next day.. thats how fast dead bodies stink so i doubt mccanns in MH at minnowlake..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 04:42:27 PM
Depending on how and where it happened, I'm not so sure that any fight took place at all.
Quote
If your going to hijack a Mh or anything else of course there is going to be a defending fight. Lyle would of taken them on as best as he could..marie may of tried but would of been pushed aside.They most likely got lyle first, marie last. Lyle would of put up a pretty good fight

Vader 6'2' 220 plus, with a partner? Lyle and Marie, in their70's. No contest, over in seconds even just to subdue. No extreme violence was even necessary right off the bat IMO. The McCaan's may have just believed it to be a simple robbery at first and turned over cash in hopes that would be it.

If they were killed in the initial takeover, Motorhome had to be hidden and bodies disposed of asap. Then motorhome had to be moved away before being torched to disguise the origins of the crime.

The mode and location of disposal for the suv leads back to Carrot creek, Peers, area, suggests maybe the perps left it to walk away or to wait and meet another vehicle. How many people would want to drive up to a wanted burning suv and pick up two perps close to the highway on a dead end road? If you had to walk away, would you torch it and announce your presence? If you had no other vehicle, this may have been the best of your options. Suggests to me they live around there, suggests to me the McCaans met up with them right around there somehow. Just easiest and simplest again IMO.

How do you fit Vader at his sisters the next day? The motorhome is hidden for the same day, at the same time Vader went to sis to establish an alibi. If true, he had to travel a route that would get him to there from the Niton area. There are highways north that could have been used. That vehicle description needs to be disclosed, it hampers and obstructs the search needlessly from having any chance of success.  It's not right for the police, or sis or anyone to with hold that information.

By all indication, McCaan's didn't make it beyond day one. Vader may well have run over to sis and disposed of bodies enroute.. Moho is the most likely scene of the crime, suv the means of returning to home after.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 04:57:40 PM
D1 - Range roads and township roads, if familiar with the area can take you whereever you want to go in Alberta with barely touching a major route. Not only is Vader familiar with the area in question - he worked the rigs - which means you take all these back roads for kms and kms. Once looking for my (ex) hubby on a lease near Bisieker I got lost and was back in Innisfail via Range/Twnshp Roads.
I think Vader's pyromania is a stress relief. I think he hid the MH - maybe wasnt even planning on torching it right away but it always comes down to fire. I think he spent time at his sisters paranoid as hell. I think he set the fires to all those random buildings etc as a coping mechanism.

Also think that when sis said that he was tired of running, I think she picked up on some odd behavior and this was his excuse - that running from the police over warrants was wearing him out and causing him stress. I highly doubt he was worried about running and the warrants. He was concerned over a couple dead bodies!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 05:03:53 PM
Yes, there are a lot of routes one could take especially if you know the area well. Did he take the bodies with him enroute to see sis?

One fire we know for sure, was likely loaded with evidence, the other may have been likewise, we don't know that. Fits with a Vader thing either way.

a few comments on earlier remarks;


Re: from Anna-
Quote
Years of doping have cripped any logical or rational thought patterns.
You act on training and instinct then? What would a Vader do? Life is over if you get caught!

From Min-
Quote
D1..north makes sense but at the time doubt they were thinking sensible enough to think we better do this and that just in case ..if they were doped up enough to rob a MH, kill, and burn Mh , they were not sensable enough to come up with normal thinking driven ideas
.
Vader did end up in Edmonton next morning by all indication somehow. Suv was never torched..

From Anna-
Quote
Get cocky, take vehicle everywhere you go. Go to sisters. Everything is normal
Except sis says it was a different vehicle.. suv was never torched later, either not used for body disposal or not taken to Edmonton?

From Min-
Quote
Did vader leave the area knowing what was going on and wanted to look like he had nothing to do with it?
He hadn’t seen sis etc in months, shows up that morning tired and hungry been out in bush.. making an alibi, timing is too suggestive..

From Min-
Quote
Well since MH was burnt and nothing was found in SUV how could they link vader to it, upgrading him to a suspect..
How could nothing not be found in the suv? How could it be cleaned that well?

From Min-
Quote
No one is saying they saw vader on the 4th in area going against what his sister said.
So maybe he did go? Moho not seen either that day, unless there was something to the chip lake sighting?

Min-
Quote
The perps chose minnowlake for unknown reasons, chose to burn MH close by for unknown reasons then to go further to where they could get away easy by dumping SUV at carrot creek..No one can cover their tracks that good but vader said he could..

Minnow lake would be further in this scenario, carrot creek closer to home.






Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 25, 2010, 05:15:16 PM
Somehow, somewhere, I had gotten the information that the SUV was found on Range Rd. #144....That is a NO EXIT Rd.  This road goes south, just west of Carrot Creek.   I will look back, the article on SUV location is probably on the other thread.   I did though, make note of it on my home made map of the area.  That is why, way back, I alluded to the fact that I see a large TRIANGLE (unequal sides) when locations are mapped out.   Locations such as where Motorhome was found, where SUV was found, where Vader was found....and Niton Junction sits in the middle.
Oh, and in my notes, I have Carrot Creek--To--Minnow Lk.....39.5 km
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 05:23:39 PM
I believe you have all of that correct jobo. thnx.. So it would be an easy drive from Minnow Lake at 7 pm, back to Carrot creek by 8 pm. Phone available thwere if required.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 05:24:22 PM
D1: vader being at his sisters has not been proven. or ever said to public if it wasnt true but bret may know.. If he was there with a vehicle other than SUV neighbours would of known as police would of asked around eventually..AND if he had been seen at his sisters on the 4th that still doesnt leave him out of this at all..It would just put him in edmonton before MH was burned. AND if he was working with someone he left prematurly leaving this one person to drive MH and SUV alone??? So if vader involved it would be 3 people as vader went to his sisters on the 4th..needing 2 people to carry on with this crime while he went on a urgent holiday. He prob didnt go in a stolen vehicle as he had to get back in it and knew someone would be looking for it.BUT he did steal one off forbes only going as far as bulmars which was just down the road around the corner. How convenient was that..Then gets arrested the next day..Now how did the police figure out where he was  getting him at 2 in the morning just ready to leave..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 05:30:31 PM
the phone at the gas station would of been available at 8 but like the asian woman said depends on how busy which was rare they stayed open til 8:30...Guess it would be hard for her to remember everyone that night but still, she said they arent busy  ever....Is she remaining quiet too???? or really doesnt remember..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 05:34:47 PM
D1 - he dumped bodies almost immediately. Drove randomly to ensure no one saw or followed him. Hid MH... dont wanna get caught with that stuff do you?

A little bit of training and a little bit of that intuition.

Vader didnt ditch the SUV... someone else did. Traded SUV for a "clean" vehicle to go to Sis's? Didnt use SUV for either... still stickin to it being used as a drug runner.  Vader's partner in crime... not a petty criminal. Extremely organized. Almost wonder if he wasnt told to get out of town.

I dont think they'd chance using a public phone. Everyone now days has a cell phone... pay and talks or the "disposable" doesnt register as there is no bill.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 06:34:37 PM
Please I am asking in this discussion, that we have some sensitivity for the MCCann family.  What the perps did, is a great discussion, but kindly  keep the McCann family in mind. Let us not talk about remains, about this elderly couple, and possibly where they may be found. (And I myself I am as guilty as the next poster. )  Who the perps were yes.
Let us not talk about these seniors themselves. The McCann family may be  reading these posts, and we should show some sensitivity there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 06:39:35 PM
Thats why I was interested in his criminal record. I dont think he terrorizes random people. I think he terrorizes and is violent in self preservation.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 06:42:40 PM
I repeat, Please I am asking in this discussion, that we have some sensitivity for the MCCann family.  What the perps did, is a great discussion, but kindly  keep the McCann family in mind. Let us not talk about remains, about this elderly couple, and possibly where they may be found. (And I myself I am as guilty as the next poster. )  Who the perps were yes.
Let us not  not talk about these seniors themselves. The McCann family may be  reading these posts, and we should show some sensitivity there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 06:42:53 PM
so far route wise if ,there seems to be no way to get from  a northern part to RR150 without crossing the highway 16 driivng down it a little ways to get to minnow lake..If they wanted to of stayed total hidden maybe they stayed south, east of minnowlake at a dead end range road ..Then took off to minnowlake and that seems crazy to me too...If they hid north they had to cross 16.daytime driving wasnt smart.They hid from the 3rd on til the evening of the 4th  attempting day time driving. dont seem like perps really knew area that well..I dont think they knew what the heck they were doing.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 06:55:00 PM
Yes, may have gone wrong for self preservation in Vader's case, but it appears he had an unknown partner who may not have posses ed the same kind attributes.

Quote
That's why I was interested in his criminal record. I dont think he terrorizes random people. I think he terrorizes and is violent in self preservation.

We get that too jelly bean appreciate the concern and apologize profusely everytime. But we are looking for bodies now, no disrespect intended. My belief is that no matter what little piece of evil went down here, that brief moment will never outshine the lifetime of love and beauty we all see with the McCaan's. It just isn't gonna happen no matter who says what. I separate the McCaan's in life from the vessels we seek.

We try not to get overly gruesome save it may have some importance that leads to some yet unknown evidence. thanks for the reminder and will try to keep it toned down.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
re: mindy
Quote
They hid from the 3rd on til the evening of the 4th  attempting day time driving. dont seem like perps really knew area that well..I dont think they knew what the heck they were doing.

not sure why you think that but could be other excuses or reasons as well. One perp was unavailable at night? Had a previous engagement or alibi was under construction? Motorhome sticks out like a sore thumb on backroads after midnight? why torch a motorhome at 7pm when you had the whole night before and the one coming up to torch it at say 2 am?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 25, 2010, 07:15:06 PM
fires in the light are less noticable than in the dark... bought valuable get away time?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Words such as bodies, and being dumped is I think, upon reflection, of which I am also guilty, is being insensitive to the topic of the Missing  McCann's. That is all that I meant. This whole business is tragic.

Peace
JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 07:35:20 PM
D1 : yup.kinda stuck on this day time thing as they did drive in daylight..Thats not a perp that knew area enough.Maybe to some degree..Vader may of gave them pointers  and then took off leaving the mess to them.So why didnt they burn MH in the dark? They may of thought after those knocks on the MH door that someone was on their trail and just quickly got rid of MH.They knew they had the SUV to get away from fire fast enough and then dump that..Traveling during the day? Would u with a big MH knowing u have rid of 2 people.Prob traveling at night not a option as they werent sure where they were going..Anyone could of seen MH during day . That was not a smart move but As nuts as they were I really wish they had just driven up to a police station ...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 07:40:52 PM
I believe they took secondary roads to get to Minnow Lake.  Why are you veering off from that?  I used to take secondary roads to get to my favorite lake on the weekend.  You could throw a bowling ball down on them, and not hit anything, nor see anyone.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 07:45:24 PM
And that is possible yet JB, however some of these secondary roads may be too secondary for full size motorhome travel. The rr 150 rd is a secondary road also, just a bigger one, direct to minnow lake from the highway.

Seems the nature of the beast JB, we have to use some terminology on here for the deceased, it's alot of what we do in these discussions. There are other condolence sites, we seek the truth, we want to find the bodies of all the missing for justice and closure. Whatever helps to get there, we discuss. I don't like the gratuitous but seldom do I see that happening.

re: annas
Quote
fires in the light are less noticeable than in the dark... bought valuable get away time?
.

I'm going with that too. Caretaker is another viable motive.

re: mindy
Quote
Traveling during the day? Would u with a big MH knowing u have rid of 2 people.Prob traveling at night not a option as they weren't sure where they were going..Anyone could of seen MH during day

Which is why the motorhome may have come right down the main highway and range road 150 in the daylight. That's the best time and best route to blend in to some degree. Would take knowledge of the area to know that too.
The McCaan's were likely already removed before the drive to Minnow lake.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 25, 2010, 07:55:18 PM
Googling, I thought the same, rr 150 still works for going to minnow, the other options still look fine for the suv on the return trip. By passing rr150 after lighting up the moho may have been a concern. They could end up right back near carrot creek with the suv travelling on real backroads. The evening of the 5th, rainy muddy roads..Seems the best option right now given what we know..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on November 25, 2010, 08:45:57 PM
I am familiar with secondary road, but only to my lake close by.  The rest boggles my mind.  I am firm that they would take secondary roads.  These slime balls are always avoiding LE, in their every day activities, it is second nature to them.  Some day I may tell you why I feel this way.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 25, 2010, 08:52:42 PM
all routes for north have to lead to 32 to get to RR150....to avoid traveling 16 so long..Found places where the mccanns may of been over taken at main points leading to hideouts then to roads leading to fast ways to 32 then onto RR150..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 26, 2010, 02:31:24 PM
oh oh. what happened to everyone?????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 02:31:46 PM
We have pretty well exhausted the possibilities south of the highway. That is a lot of area to check. The behavioural profiling we were getting into amateur as it may be, does bring up some other interesting possibilities. Vader seems to have disappeared from the scene immediately after the MCcaan's were overtaken. His appearance at his sisters place was too coincidental and the timing too suspicious. Sister says, he was tired from running around in the bush all night. Sister says he showed up in a vehicle which was not an suv. We aren't being told the description of that vehicle. We know who Vader was hanging out with after the crime, at a time when he was in the public eye as a suspect. Those people allowed him to stay there, allowed him to park another stolen vehicle there and never said anything. Vader knew he would be drawing heat on them and they knew likewise. Thick as thieves..

So what vehicle did Vader use to get to his sisters place? Where did it come from? Why plant another stolen vehicle with you where you are sure to be found?  To pose it as the vehicle used to go to Edmonton?

If, the McCaan's weren't in the motorhome, and the suv has been determined to have no evidence of dna or foul play, then another vehicle could have been used to transport and dispose of bodies. The perps had no way of knowing if and when the motorhome and suv would be reported missing. Using either of those vehicles with bodies on board maybe too risky. The motorhome which would have had evidence on board was torched, whatever vehicle was used to transport the bodies would likely suffer a similar fate. Which leads me back to the cabin fire and the report of several vehicles being torched at the same time. What were those vehicle descriptions? Did any match what sis saw?
Map of the northern events and possible escape/ disposal routes attached below.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 26, 2010, 02:46:29 PM

Have not posted too much here, but do read. May have missed this if it has ever been discussed. It's been said many times that Vader's sister may have been used as an alibi. I've wondered if it was usual for Vader to show up at her home unannounced. Did he do this often? Really wondering what their relationship had been like before this and how much time they spent together.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 02:55:31 PM
Apparently this was very unusual, sis says they hadn't seen him in months before this.

Anyone recall where sis lived, area or address?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 26, 2010, 03:13:06 PM

Not surprised at that. Many addicts end up without family relationships, as family gets tired of the stealing and lying. Also imagine the addict grows away from family, as getting the next fix becomes the only thing that matters. Most would sell their own grandmother if they thought they could make a buck.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 26, 2010, 03:31:51 PM

It does seem odd that a person that age would still be living with a foster mother if she is capable of looking after herself. Can't see the Ministry continuing to pay for her support unless there is some type of problem. 

Also strange that the two younger have gone on to finish university. Quite a far cry from the others. Believe I read somewhere in all of this that it was two separate families.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 26, 2010, 03:45:49 PM

Thanks SAP. Fairly large family then, altogether. Second set of kids somehow doing better than the first.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 26, 2010, 05:20:36 PM
good map D1.....Was vader doing drugs when he was making so much money at his job..Where did he faulter to get in the mess he has been in for yrs...It now working on the north part of that area that would be hard determining the main area of MH takeover then when u look at all the areas they could of hidden you would have to satellite it to see how far houses and farms are away as they wouldnt choose a farm where they would of been spotted..Will be much harder to find where they hid north but just check areas where active farms arent so close by...Possible another campsite especially off 32 like memorial park. A friend of mine from grandpraie drove that area where she felt lead to..Another campsite not used  makes sense too..Cant camp properly to long either as there is only a 3 day time frame for battery life for lights in MH etc..They wouldnt of plugged in anywhere thats for sure..Did lyle fill the water tanks? Doubt it but who knows. They can use MH bathroom if he did and not have to prob pull over..Just easiar that way since they were traveling far prob not intending to pull over for a few hrs..Since that whole area has dead end roads north doesnt mean they used one. There are tons of off road parks with outhouses etc...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 26, 2010, 05:38:03 PM
late on this but actually fires during the day more noticeable as the smoke can be seen for miles. I have watched a MH burn and the Black smoke that went up so high was so unreal.I mean BLACK smoke...And it took 30 mins for this MH to totally burn.The perps would of had to high tail it out of there fast as RV,s are ticking bombs that go up in flames pretty fast concidering fuel and propane aboard.It shouldnt of taken cops so long to find the burning MH but it did...Burning at night  harder to see as smoke is black...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 05:43:04 PM
the right accelerant to burn something and it burns hot enough that there would be no smoke...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 05:46:46 PM
Lots of variables come into play, it was right beside a campground, disguising it wasn't the prime concern
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 05:48:28 PM
And...there isn't really anything to suggest the northern route was taken instead of the southern. Just that if another unknown vehicle was used to take Vader to Edmonton and back, they may have had some intent to keep it from being seen in the same area as the motorhome and suv. Straight north out of Macay gets you into more remote desolate looking country sparcer population etc.. Knowing what vehicle he showed up at sis's place in would likely lead back to someone somewhere as a starting point for the route map. May also tell what sorts of roads or trails he was capable of travelling dependent upon model of vehicle.

If there was any one thing that could assist the search specific to finding the McCaan's, I'd say this vehicle description is it. Maybe someone came across them in the middle of the night somewhere, just doesn't know it was them? Too little too late again now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 05:53:04 PM
D1 - I lived along your northern route at one point in time... only thing out that way is an awful lot of fields and pastures...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 06:19:14 PM
That sucks Mindy, time he came in and got help. Maybe he'll call, hopefully it won't be all that bad..

Annasty-

Does it get into any sort of timber or forests up north of Macay? If I would speculate the spot we'd be loking for would have to be before hitting any main intersections to the north. Or north from Mcay up over top and around chip lake and back to highway 16?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 06:24:52 PM
i dont know about that area but I lived along the highway between barrhead and mayerthorpe.. near the turn off to go down to sangudo and cherhill... bit of forest/trees, also access to the backside of Thunder Lake
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 06:27:38 PM
What do you think it would be like up that way on the roads in the middle of the night?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 06:38:48 PM
the main highway was quiet even during the day... Sangudo is like 5 little stores all on the same "corner" and some dilapatated houses for the main town (horrible chinese food if ur ever in the area... ugh) I lived on hwy 18 between RR61 and RR62, 62 takes you through the land that the ranch owned to a field that sits on the backside of Thunder Lake.  If you google map it, and get the satellite view, you can see the ranch I lived/worked on
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 07:40:03 PM
Lived at the  Ranch in 2005
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 08:01:14 PM
It's the area immediately north of Macay Niton that has interest to me. Back to the behavioural aspects Occams and all that. Looking back at Vaders other charges and where from, he gets around. Somewhere in there must be a spot he would remember and go back to for this purpose? Match up with terrain somewhere nearby but seem unconnected??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 08:12:17 PM
Wouldnt be somewhere he likes to go, I dont think he wants to return to the location.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 26, 2010, 08:57:30 PM
Would you freak out and just find anywhere to drop off bodies under those conditions, if Vader or would you at least go through a check list of possibities in your memory bank? Maybe not a favourite spot, but a spot he's seen and known of from some earlier time? How far would you be willing to travel with bodies on board?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 26, 2010, 09:24:07 PM
I dont think very far, I think there was panic, I think he left the area trying to remain calm, maybe stopped somewhere to collect his thoughts then did what he had to do. I think the McCanns will be found fairly close to where they encountered Vader. The more you drive around, the more someone will see you.... he's already wanted by police - last thing he wants is to get spotted by them and pulled over just for the warrants.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 26, 2010, 10:18:04 PM
I think the same, Annastaisha.    I agree that the McCanns will be found fairly close to where they met up with the perps.   We so desperately need to find out where.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 12:41:29 AM
This is an old picture but i never really thought of this at the time that the motorhome could have been hidden over night where the suv was eventually found . The arial view shows a long hidden off road spot in the trees. see- picture
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws (http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws)

The  location of the cabin fire just up the quiet road also looks like it had potential to be able to hide a motorhome. see picture-
http://www.vancouversun.com/3291861.bin?size=620x400 (http://www.vancouversun.com/3291861.bin?size=620x400)

All of these locations are very close together and I believe it was reported by someone back then that Vader was staying right in between the two locations.

Quote
Just a tidbit of info - Minnow Lake campground is located down Range Road 150. The SUV was located down Range Road 144 (East of the Minnow Lake campground road) I have also learned that Travis Vader was staying at the Niton Junction hotel. If the Mccann's stopped in Niton, Vader could have crossed paths with them there. Vader is also originally from the Niton area, so he would know the area well.....

The vehicle descriptions from the cabin fire and from when Vader showed up at his sister's need to be found and compared. That is a job for the McCaan's or their PI..

general map of Vaders where-abouts -

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 11:16:13 AM
There is a simple direct back route to minnow lake pretty well right from Carrot creek. I believe it would take some knowledge of the area to navigate it and the roads would have to be substantial enough to accomodate a vehicle of this size. But it may be possible.

There is but one night unaccounted for the motorhome, presumably in the area wherever Vader was. For the late afternoon evening nite of the 4th to the 5th, the motorhome moved to and stayed at minnow lake. Questions have been coming up such as why wait the extra day to torch the motorhome? Why take the extra risk of being caught in the motorhome for an additional 24 hours?

Some of these questions go back to the character issues we have been discussing, what kind of people are we dealing with, did they freak and run willy nilly disposing of evidence or were they a little more calm or even methodical about the whole thing?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 27, 2010, 11:20:37 AM
I left the area in 1997, so it has really gone down hill then. I remember alot of newer housing back then, with only a few older unkept places. Most of the seniors who lived there kept their places up.
[/quote]
Could've been the time of year (late March) and the area we were in.  But it looked pretty run down, didnt hang around there much.

This is an old picture but i never really thought of this at the time that the motorhome could have been hidden over night where the suv was eventually found . The arial view shows a long hidden off road spot in the trees. see- picture
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws (http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws)

Possibility, would like to see just how many vehicle tracks are around the area. A big heavy MH would leave definate tire ruts.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 11:25:01 AM
Depending on type of ground, compactness, and how much recent rain fall, the motorhome may not have rutted the ground. The picture shows a relatively long level set of tracks behind the suv, noticeable tracks from the air would be way more pronounced at ground level.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 27, 2010, 11:28:02 AM
I almost wonder if they tried to clean the MH then decided just to torch it. Its an awfully large vehicle to try to hide.
I dont believe that Vader was calm cool and collected. I think he was panicked. I am also starting to think that he initially committed the crimes alone but when he realized he was in too deep that he sought help. I think the "sanity" came from whomever he enlisted to help. It bothers me about how the MH was disposed of vs how the SUV was disposed of. The MH speaks of disorganization yet a clean SUV suggests organization.


I'd like to see more pics of the ground to see if there are more than the one set of tracks. Were tracking dogs brought in at the recovery of the SUV?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 11:41:20 AM
The picture shows a definite trail, a  spot used over a period of time for multiple vehicles. It indicates the possibility that the spot could have at least accomodated a motorhome. The perps obviously knew of this spot  the suv was ditched there.
picture-
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws (http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/3288643.bin?size=sw620nws)

I believe the area was searched quite thouroughly but I don't know about dogs.

Attempts at cleaning the motorhome may have been a possibility for the activities on the 4th.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 27, 2010, 11:44:51 AM
To me the trail looks more like a quad or horseback. It is a possibility thats where the MH was for a time.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 11:48:36 AM
I think that is more an illusion caused by the angle the picture is shot from. Near the entry and end you can make out the second tire tracks. The spacing of the tree's almost suggests a complete turn around to the right of the suv.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 27, 2010, 11:50:38 AM
5ft further into the trees and that wouldnt have been visable from the air...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: solvy on November 27, 2010, 11:53:48 AM
D1  wonder why they did not totally hide the suv  Looks like its hidden from view of the trail, but still showing from the aerial view.  If its a turnabout, wonder why its not further into the trees-  maybe just panicked and left it somewhat hidden???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 01:10:49 PM
Yes, questions are still flying around about the suv, why wasn't it hidden better? Why was it brought back almost to Vader's door step? Why wasn't it torched like the motorhome? How long had it been there? Was there any evidence found in it, finger prints even?

re: from solvy
Quote
maybe just panicked and left it somewhat hidden???

If Vader had been driving the suv around as indicated, maybe he did have to ditch it fast and couldn't risk taking it far because the news reports had just came out with everyone looking for the suv? That could provide the time line for when where and why it was ditched?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 27, 2010, 03:43:54 PM
So then vader, knowing on the 16th  he was sought after ,may of left it there at hidden spot then needing another vehicle to run with so steals a vehicle off forbes on RR112..Mh long gone he hids SUV then hoofs it out alone??Cant burn SUV there as to close to 16 and would deff caused a uproar enough as he was in big trouble already..Would of been to obvious. Burnt MH and Now burnt SUV??? AND police say mccanns were not in SUV.. SO they had been transported by another vehicle or just taken down south of 16 in MH after hiding on the 3rd and 4th day at SUV drop off area..That is IF vader really was seen with SUV..I think the siting of SUV were bull..If U see a SUV close enough to see the lisence plates u can make out the people inside like if there was 2 people or not and also if they had a cell phone I would of called police following it knowing the seriousness of it until police got it...A person or spotted vehicle sought after can disappear pretty fast.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 04:23:37 PM
I think it was on the 10th to the 12th that the suv began coming under increasing scrutiny. Maybe whoever ditched it was on his own, who wants to go for that ride or pickup that guy? Maybe it was done at night, lights out even.

This is a general out line showing a few of the little lakes scattered along the route between minnow lake and carrot creek.

pic of the minnow lake campsite attached as well. May have been level enough and easy enough to have just pulled in, no parking fuss.
http://www.globaltoronto.com/RCMP+search+Minnow+Lake+Campground+second+time/3547005/story.html (http://www.globaltoronto.com/RCMP+search+Minnow+Lake+Campground+second+time/3547005/story.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 27, 2010, 04:49:33 PM
Just to uncanny D1..That looks like a squiggle arrow alright..Looks like there is something to each thing but not to what i think like what I thought this arrow was once. Didnt even come close to this. Now it makes total sense..How easy is to tell how many farms are on that route.Dont look like many which would make it safe to travel this route..One thing they had to do was still cross 16 to carrot creek south but a very short distance to SUV drop off hiding place..This route must of been traveld before by perps as they knew it went straight to minnowlake avoiding the 12 miles off 16 down RR150 where minnow lake is..ANd if MH crossed 16 u would think store owners would of seen that but guess they didnt ..Cant see everything..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 27, 2010, 10:42:00 PM
Sorry, the carrot creek store is not on rr 144. I think that is on 133a. No fear of the suv being seen from there.. 144 is very close to the rr 150 exit, side by side really.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 02:37:38 AM
The "official" location for where the suv was found isn't as close to carrot creek as I had believed. Some reports say it was found at carrot creek, I suppose because it is the next closest named location but in reality it was basically found right next to the highway junction where you turn to minnow lake. The location on rr 144 poses slightly different circumstance to look at.
see -general area map with suv routes questioned below

To me this begins to look more like staging now rather than actual circumstance. The motorhome was taken to a public campground, the suv found close to the same highway one short road over. How long had this been here? Someone wanted all attention directed down that way IMO..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 28, 2010, 09:50:17 AM
I think the SUV was left on Range Road #144 because it is one of the quieter roads, as it is a NO EXIT RD...Less chance of it being noticed, as there would not be much traffic up and down the road.  I also think the perps parked it there and went back and forth for it.  They just didn't go back once the reports of the McCanns missing came out.
  Didn't someone call in a tip to the cops about the SUV, and that's how they found it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 12:11:04 PM
rr #144 does seem a quieter road but there are a few residences, or farms or something showing up on the google map. A few treed areas but mainly open fields. On roads this quiet a stranger often attracts more attention to him self than he would on a busier road. Coming and going back and forth on this road may not have been an activity that could go unnoticed. It was someone who lived down further on 144 that reported it to the police. There was no indication given for how long it might have been there.

This may have just been its final drop off location? Seems you would need another vehicle for pickup to leave from this location?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 28, 2010, 12:31:57 PM
That's what makes me wonder if the 'other' perp lives in the general vicinty of the SUV...say in Carrot Creek, or somewhere between SUV sighting  and Minnow Lake.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 12:54:57 PM
Okay I'm late to this party..but my husband is a truck driver and has driven hwy 16 hundreds of times...this is our take on this.
The morning the McCaans took off they could have stopped at the self weigh scale on hwy 16 just a few miles east of the Minnow lake turn off...
My husband always weighs our camper,its a truck driver thing..and it would have been one of the first on their way west.
They could have gotten out for a stretch and been over taken by the perps involved. We drove by there a few weeks ago and there is very dense bush surrounding the weigh scale. I believe it is just east of RR144....so it kinda plays into everyones theory's.
From what I understand the Chip Lake sittings are false, and I think Vader is involved,but not the ring leader. He may have come into it as the clean up guy.

Meth heads don't plan anything,they don't think.They live on instinct to just get high,so I believe the McCaans were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The perps spotted them,thought they had loads of cash,being older and everything and it was a crime of opportunity.......
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 28, 2010, 12:55:41 PM
What about a quad? A quad in farm territory would go completely unnoticed
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 01:06:53 PM
Interesting thoughts, will have to have a look at that weigh scale area. Peers is almost as close as Carrot creek to this spot. There are reports somewhere, of Vader running around on a quad. Will have to try and find who said and where the sightings were.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 01:26:34 PM
weigh scale location listings-
http://www.breckels.com/scales-ab.html (http://www.breckels.com/scales-ab.html)

Quote
Peers    Westbound Highway 16 Approx. 5 km West Junction Highway 32

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 01:36:48 PM
On the google maps right at or about the above co-ordinates you find this- (photo below) I don't know if this is the scale or not, but on the surface is near pefect for the spot we have been looking for.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 01:42:31 PM
Yes..thats the spot. It is designed for large vehicles.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 02:00:01 PM
I would like to know what other facilities there are at this location? Washrooms or anything else? Maybe Brett would know if there was anything that could have caused them to stop here? The location is soo convenient to the rest of the events.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 02:10:42 PM
Nothing..but a self weigh scale.Very handy on and off the highway.As a trucker going into the mountain passes Lyle would have been curious as to his total weight..especially if he had water/fuel/and the suv towed behind.
They would have not needed washrooms ect as the MH would have been self contained.
And a nice private spot to stop for lunch or whatever. Not very busy as only trucks and the occasional rv'er would stop.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 02:15:46 PM
Thanyou just sayin! I think this location has to be moved up to the top of the list.. Wonder how much this spot has been inspected if any in regard to this crime? It really seems near perfect!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 02:46:32 PM
As close as the map function allows, you can see trails and cutlines running behind the weigh scale. Someone could come and go by quad without being seen and without having any other vehicle parked in sight.
Have the police or McCaan's checked those trails north of #16??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 28, 2010, 02:52:29 PM
The weight scale certainly is in our 'vicinity' and this is the first time I have heard about it.   It makes sense that Mr McCann would want to weigh his vehicle(s)......as it is a "Truck Driver Thing"..as just saying said.  I too, wonder how close the cops looked around there.  Vader is known to drive 4 wheelers/whatever.   I also think he is the helper in this crime.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
Continuing along this line, if a quad or similar was used and hidden in the bush behind the scales, dumping the suv on rr 144 across the highway is consistent with the perps having no other means of travel once the suv was dumped. The quad coulld have been used again for that purpose. Wasn't it bandana dave in the peers interview where he said Vader was driving all sorts of vehicles? quads included? Peers is just up the road from this weigh scale location.

The suv location may well indicate the initial takeover location. The perps may have left their transportation to that spot there and had to return for it again to leave.

If you haven't seen the news video for a while, it's worth having another look.
http://watch.ctv.ca/372388#clip372388 (http://watch.ctv.ca/372388#clip372388)
The suv's location is seen in a brief clip and still looks capable of hiding a motorhome there. Banana Dave and Peers get an "honourable" mention. Anyone know Ban D 's exact location? Could you go from BD's to the weigh scale on a quad? rail line in between? other possibilities?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 04:25:42 PM
Here's my theory....
on the morning in question the McCaans stopped at the weigh scales, the perps were there waiting on or in the process of a drug drop. Truck stops are notorious for drug exchanges. These guys probally sampled the goods,and being stoned and paranoid they panicked by being seen by the couple....The McCaans were attacked,then they were either dragged into the bushes right there and hastily buried or one person drove the MH down RR144 and another drove the vehicle they were in and the McCaans disposed of elsewhere...they probally parked the MH for the days that is unaccounted for...then once they made a plan,then drove the MH to the campground....so it would be seen by the public..for all we know it could have been parked on he burn spot....then they panicked again and burnt it on the 5th....I'm sure there's a few people involved and someone will talk,but I feel there is an honor among thieves and it will take a much larger reward with the promise of immunity to get somebody to talk....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 04:51:19 PM
Interesting theory to fit in with this spot. Finding proof and records to go along with it could prove even more so. I wonder if the weigh scale has any recording devices installed, who used the scale on that day, time slips? is it free or how do you pay?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 04:59:45 PM
Quote
I wonder if the weigh scale has any recording devices installed, who used the scale on that day, time slips? is it free or how do you pay?

I do not believe so..and that is what is so sad about this case, it is all speculation...no proof on any level. Untill the McCaan's are found with some evidence there is no hope of solving this case.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 05:06:44 PM
That is the problem all right, next to no evidence available that we know of, and very little information being revaled by any side, criminal or official. So all we are left with is detail driven speculation that we hope will somehow lead to finding the McCaan's. I do wonder how well the area behind that weigh scale was checked out?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 28, 2010, 05:27:57 PM
good choice of spot D1..either this one or niton junction..is this that new rest stop i have heard of? when was it put in. before lyles last travel?? did he know about it..Pretty close to RR144 alright.straight from there to RR144..maybe they got on RR144 not out of choice but only fast route to get off 16...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on November 28, 2010, 05:32:10 PM
Actually, I am kindof surprised there is no cameras at the weight scales.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on November 28, 2010, 05:38:11 PM
Quote
s this that new rest stop i have heard of? when was it put in. before lyles last travel??

No..the new rest stop is east of this. As far as I know the scales have been there for quite a few years. These are free,unmanned scales.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 28, 2010, 09:44:05 PM
Somewhere in earlier reports I have read about a search north of the highway, pehaps this weigh scale area had already come into question and has been searched. Unfortunately it would have been after the 16th too long after the 3rd for there to be much left of any tracks.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 29, 2010, 04:24:48 PM
SOUNDS LIKE A CONNECTION TO ME...The disappearance of a St. Albert couple last month hits too close to home for an Edmonton man and his family.

Wayne Roelfsema says there are eerie similarities between this case and the disappearance of his mom, Jean Roelfsema, nearly three years ago. She vanished when driving from Edmonton to her home in Summerland, B.C.

Her body was found nearly a year later.

“It’s sort of like deja vu,” said Wayne, 50.

Lyle, 78, and Marie McCann, 77, set out in their motorhome July 3, planning to meet family in B.C. When the pair never arrived, worried family contacted police.

On July 5, the couple’s charred motorhome was found near the Minnow Lake campground, around 35 km southeast of Edson.

The couple hasn’t been seen.

“It gives me a really creepy feeling,” said Jean Roelfsema’s daughter Margaret Mueller, 54.

Jean, 71, was travelling a similar route in October 2007 after visiting her family in Edmonton.

She stopped in the Edson area and used her Visa card — and that was the last time she was seen alive.

Jean’s family spent the next two years frequently driving that stretch of Highway 16 — searching embankments for any sign of her.

In August 2008 a farmer found Jean’s body washed up on the shore of the North Thompson River, north of Barriere, B.C., which is 54 km north of Kamloops.

An autopsy never confirmed a cause of death, however drowning was ruled out, Wayne said.

The 1999 grey Dodge Caravan Jean was driving has never been found.

The McCann’s SUV, which they were towing, was discovered in the bush near Carrot Creek, 30 km east of Edson, at the end of a rough trail.

Carrot Creek was a place Jean liked and often visited, said Wayne.

“There are connections here,” he said, adding the family still wants to get to the bottom of what happened.

“We do one day at a time.”

RCMP could not be reached for comment on Sunday.

Both siblings speculated their mother Jean may have picked up a hitchhiker or person stranded on the side of the road before her disappearance.

“She was the nicest woman,” said Wayne. “She would have picked up anyone who needed help.”

Bret McCann, son of Lyle and Marie, the missing St. Albert couple, said he was aware of Jean’s disappearance, but hadn’t otherwise heard of any connections between the cases.

“Anything is possible,” McCann said. “But who knows for sure?”

The McCanns and Jean Roelfsema aren’t the only seniors who have gone missing in recent years from the area.

In August 2006, Stephanie Stewart, 70, vanished from a firetower she was working at near Hinton, only around 86 kilometres from Edson. Police suspected foul play but no trace of Stewart has ever been found.

Mueller said the important thing for the McCanns to do now is keep progressing and to stick together.

“You have to rack your brains constantly and keep in contact with the police,” said Mueller.

“Our door is half closed, but the McCanns still have a chance. People need to get thinking about it.”

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: solvy on November 29, 2010, 06:53:39 PM
Wow Mindy there are quite a few similarities between the two  and maybe more ladies missing.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if they could link them all and find them aswell!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 29, 2010, 09:55:38 PM
The Carrot creek area comes up again with strange and similar circumstance. Other seniors mainly women have also gone missing from the surrounding area. In the above article, Jean's family speculate on the connections. A comment made in an earlier conversation in conjunction with a post by SAP got me wondering about Mr. Vader in a different way. The comment had to do with how many serial killers seemed to have some sort of a problem with their mothers. Maybe a domineering mother figure has set the stage for someone in this area to be acting out in a strange way? It was SAP who posted about the dead Vader brother and the lack of information available on his real mother. Is there something more to this?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 29, 2010, 10:44:51 PM
mother figures could be the mental characteristic to this main perps prob for instance VADER......BUt like I,ve asked or said before, does vader have even one assualt charge? none that have been mentioned but the burning of vehicles is either out of rage or rid of evidence. people who like to burn things have a control issue too. Does he hurt animals???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 29, 2010, 11:05:39 PM
he has a lot of weapons charges, threats charges and restraining orders against him. I would say he has a violent streak.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 29, 2010, 11:13:25 PM
Never really thought of looking at Vader in that light, but the bed wetters and fire bugs were indicators of a predisposition among the young. Animal abuse right up near the top of the list. Maybe he's just a late bloomer?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on November 29, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
the sk triad.. bed wetting into late ages, fire starting and torture/mutilation of small animals - cats are a favorite...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 29, 2010, 11:50:00 PM
I think his only restraining order was with his wife..He must of gotten violent...For him to burn his own familys home is quite drastic..A very jealous rage...Alot of rage out that way..The guy with cabin burning his place saying it was due to his wife..Talk about a dark cloud over that area...IF vader didnt go as far as to murder then his friends were in a worse state..Nasty...If the [police would just indulge us with what they found to make vader a suspect, maybe we could could figure out what happened to the mccanns before they do..We are told just so much on vader which will bring anyone to the conclusion that he deff has issues alright..Beyong what he has done, was the next mental step murder? He finally hit rock bottom so bad everyone knowing him and rejecting him up there...At one time he was a living at his parents. He hit bottom fast..Why didnt he just live with his sister.At least he would of had a home..His area is his security.? If u have just accidently killed someone arent u in more of a panic that if it was planned...The perps didnt seem to be in no rush to leave area and hide out. You kinda have to really put yourself in a druggies world, play out the part in your mind ..Thats what they police learn..Every angle, ever scenario..There is not one personality they have not encountered.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 12:14:12 AM
Good read Mindy, It appears there had to be more involved than just one person. The personality of the others is still somewhat a mystery. The actions of someone is different from the others here. Vader does appear to have fled the scene almost immediately. Who stayed behind with the motorhome and why?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on November 30, 2010, 05:23:52 AM
What is known about Vader, and his early years?  Where was he born?  Canada?  The USA?  Did the family come from Canada, and then live in Texas for some years?  What job did Vader's father do, was he involved in the oil patch in both places? Is there a possibility that Mr. McCann and Vader's father knew each other?  Any connection there?

A big question--who is Vader's mother?  I gathered the woman in the news report is his step-mother? Where is Vader's birth mother and what can we find out about her?  Any behavioral problems?  I wonder why Vader's father and mother are no longer together?  And does Vader have a sibling(s) who were in foster care?  I remember awhile ago postings of Vader's sister and her odd foster mother? And her foster mother is not much older than Vader's sister?

What do we know about Vader, and each member of his family?  There could be some behavior answers there.  The Vader family seem like a motley crew.  If we can find out information on them, maybe there are clues to Vader's behavior and the way he operates.  He seems to be a very angry person.  I wonder why?  When did it start?  Does anyone on here know anything about Vader and his family? Is Edsonmom still on here?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 30, 2010, 11:16:32 AM
Havent seem edson mom in awhile..There is deffinatley more than one person involved.Someone drove the SUV out of minnowlake and the MH.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 02:04:09 PM
Hey D1,

You asked me to check this out, but it's taking me forever to go through all the posts.  Bascially this is what I've gathered so far :

- Mr McCaan (78) and Mrs. McCann (77) left their St. Albert home on Saturday July 3, and where last seen on surveillance video gassing up at a gas station

- They were driving a motorhome pulling a Hyundai behind it

- They intended to be in Kelowna for Monday and Tuesday (July 5 &6)

- Instead on Monday July 5th at around 7 pm their motorhome was found almost completely burned down on Monday July 5 near Minnow Lake in Edson, at the end of a pot-holed road leading to a camp area

- The couple themselves weren't reported missing until July 10 when they failed to arrive in Abbotsford to pick up a relative at the airport.  They still have not been located.

- The Hyundai was eventually found 30 km east of Edson near Carrot Creek on Friday July 16 in the afternoon.  It was in the bush. 

- This guy Vader has been arrested possibly in connection with the crime.  He has a history of arson, b&e and other small crimes.



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 02:05:12 PM
Are there any other important pieces of information I am missing?  I want to give an objective opinion, so I am trying not to read any theories so far before I do a profile.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 02:15:13 PM
Oh and please don`t tell me anything about Vader, or it might prejudice my opinion.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 30, 2010, 04:11:46 PM
Sorry guys, I don't check in on this one, as often as I should..
Here is some of the info you have requested..

Travis has 3 sisters Alicia, Bobbi Jo, and Brook, who are all fathered by Ed Vader, I am not sure of any sibilings through birth mom's side of the family.
Jennifer is Travis's step mom, I am looking into information on his birth mom, but will need some time, to contact a few friends, who will have that info. Ed Vader (Travis's dad) and Travis's mom, split up, when Ed was transfered to Texas. From what I am told, she still resides in Texas. Travis came back to Alberta with his dad and new step mom Jennifer, as they have a great deal of family here.

Sister Bobbi jo, was the only one in foster care, from what I am told, she was a handfull growing up.

Ed has always worked in the oil industry, as most of the men in the Vader family do..
Hope this helps a bit, and will post more, when I find out more..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 30, 2010, 04:58:27 PM
good info edsonmom..leaving states to canada a big step..Wonder id vader ever had much contact with real mom or went to see her..Oh I guess with a record he wouldnt beable to go to states..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 06:03:25 PM
Sure haven't heard much about TV's  mother, something funny about that?

Redbeard, in trying to keep away from theories, this is a little summary;
The motorhome left Edmonton area the morning of the third.
It was seen with two males in their late 30's aboard on july 4th at the campground near where it was later found engulfed in flames late in the afternoon of the fifth.
The suv had been detached at some point prior to the 5th and one male was spotted driving it at the campground, the motorhome left soon after to the nearby location picked for the arson.
The fire did not raise enough suspicion at first to get an investigation underway until the McCaan’s daughter reported them missing when she arrived in Abbotsford to meet them.
It hit the news on about the 10th, the suv wasn’t found till the 16th hidden in the bush near the highway in an area right across from an unmanned highway weigh scale. 
The location the suv was found was close to the highway exit to minnow lake where the motorhome was torched.

Travis Vader was officially named as a suspect on the 16th and picked up at his friends place just Ne from Niton junction on the 19th.  His sister in Edmonton claims he showed up there unexpectedly “tired and hungry from running around in the bush” on the morning of the fourth and says he stayed there till around the 13th.  She claims he arrived in a vehicle but that it wasn’t the McCaan’s suv.

Attached a map of the general vicinity with event locations and dates. Hope this helps RB and thnx

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on November 30, 2010, 06:34:48 PM
Hi Edsonmom, I hoped you are here.  Good to see you, and thanks for your good info.  I hoped you would have some Vader info for us. Thank you!  I have a strong feeling there is a link between Vader, his behavior, and his birth mother we never hear about.  Perhaps alot of the rage in that angry man is fueled by something connected to his mother?  And his drug use could be the match that really lit the flame?  I know drugs can bring out some horrendous things in some people, but it seems to be worse in those who have had problems earlier in their life.  Edsonmom, if you can find out all you can about Vader's birth mom, especially her relationship to Vader before and after the marital split, that would be great.  Am I the only only one who found his step-mother's behavior odd while being interviewed?  She was evasive, and kept looking away. Her body language to me was someone who was not telling all she knows.  I wonder what caused the marital breakdown, and why did Vader's birth mom stay in Texas?  I think the more we know about Vader and his family, especially his birth mother (mental illness?, etc.), the more it can be determined if he is capable of murder (planned, or spur of the moment?), is he a helper of a mastermind(s), or is he a fallguy?  The last 2 possibilities point towards someone very evil still on the loose.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 30, 2010, 06:43:56 PM
A little Family History
Edward Robert Vader
Edward Robert Vader (son of Edward Garret Vader and Elizabeth Powels).
He married (1) Barbara Ann May.
He married (2) Jennifer Mary E. Hicks.

Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May are:
Shane Michael Vader, b. September 4, 1968, d. December 2, 1982, Houston, Texas.
+Travis Edward Vader.
Bobbi-Jo Vader.


Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks are:
Alicia Kate Vader.
Elizabeth Brooke Vader.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html)

Found an Edward R. Vader, born Oct 15 1946 58a RR 3 Box  Weimer Texas.
Edward R. Vader age 35 and Linda L. Lawrence age 37 married on April 23, 1982 in Montgomery, Texas
Edward R. Vader age 37 and Jennifer M Hicks age 21 Married on 15 Jun 1984 in Fayette County Texas
Alicia K. Vader was born in Colorado County Texas, to Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks in 28 Apr 1984

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 30, 2010, 07:53:34 PM
Not sure if you guys saw this or not..


Alberta RCMP accused of bungling case of elderly couple missing since summer


The Canadian Press
Published On Wed Nov 10 2010
EDMONTON—The father of a man considered by RCMP as the primary suspect in the disappearance of an elderly Alberta couple says police have “bungled” the case.

Ed Vader told CTV Edmonton that his son Travis Vader, 38, was an “easy pick” for police for focus their efforts on.

He admits his son has had his troubles, has a short fuse and can be physically intimidating.

But he also says he’s talked to Travis and his son denies having any hand in what became of Lyle and Marie McCann.

The couple in their 70s have been missing since July 3, when they were seen gassing up their motorhome in their hometown of St. Albert, just north of Edmonton, on their way to British Columbia.

The burning motorhome was found on July 5 about 200 kilometres west of Edmonton and two weeks later, an SUV they had been hauling on their vacation trip was found abandoned in thick bush in the area.

When police first found the motorhome, they didn’t follow up on what happened to the McCanns until their family reported a week later that the couple had not shown up as expected in B.C.

It later came to light that after police publicized the disappearance of the SUV, a couple who claimed to have seen it in Prince George, B.C., were not questioned by Mounties there and were allowed to depart without leaving their names or contact information.

A few days after he was named a person of interest in the McCann case, Travis Vader was arrested on unrelated outstanding warrants for arson and property offences.

However, no charges have been laid against him relating to the McCanns.

“I believe that Travis was an easy pick,” said Ed Vader. “They had blundered it and had a problem. He was on their radar; he was somebody that had a charge that could be brought up.

“We feel the whole thing has been horribly bungled and we’re getting painted with the dirty end of the brush.”

RCMP defend their actions involving Vader and say the case is still being investigated.

“He is our primary suspect, because the investigation leads us to believe he is involved in some way in the disappearance of the McCanns,” said Sgt. Tim Taniguchi
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/888449--alberta-rcmp-accused-of-bungling-case-of-elderly-couple-missing-since-summer (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/888449--alberta-rcmp-accused-of-bungling-case-of-elderly-couple-missing-since-summer)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 30, 2010, 08:01:41 PM
I was unaware that Ed had a son who passed away..

Quote
A little Family History
Edward Robert Vader
Edward Robert Vader (son of Edward Garret Vader and Elizabeth Powels).
He married (1) Barbara Ann May.
He married (2) Jennifer Mary E. Hicks.

Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May are:
Shane Michael Vader, b. September 4, 1968, d. December 2, 1982, Houston, Texas.+Travis Edward Vader.
Bobbi-Jo Vader.


Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks are:
Alicia Kate Vader.
Elizabeth Brooke Vader.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html)« Last Edit: Today at 07:15:00 PM by TalentsUnlimited »
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 30, 2010, 08:06:17 PM
Despite snow, search for McCanns continue
9:40am
Click here to email Brent Pushkarenko
11/19/2010


The snow makes things more difficult, but by no means are RCMP abandoning the search for a St. Albert couple missing four-and-a-half months now.



Sargeant Patrick Webb recognizes there are new challenges in the search for Lyle and Marie McCann, but police remain committed to the case.

"With the snow on the ground, it's going to be more difficult to do a physical search just visually as well as across frozen ground," said Webb, Friday. "But certainly, we still have a full compliment of investigators working and if we get any information about a particular location that has to be searched, we'll be moving into that area and making that search happen."

Webb says there are 20 investigators committed to the case.

The McCanns disappeared in early July, after leaving on vacation to BC. The motorhome and the SUV they were towing behind it were found in an area east of Edson later that month.

A man from the Nojack-area, Travis Vader, 38, is a suspect in their disappearance but has not been charged. He's in custody awaiting court appearances on non-related matters. (bp, ccg)


http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1314400 (http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1314400)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on November 30, 2010, 08:22:37 PM
Like the police say.They will search a area if there is something to lead them there. Right now there has been no new leads or any that we know of. They are not going to advertise every search they do as the other ones unless media gets ahold of info...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 08:23:23 PM
Hey D1,

Well first of all, and I'm sorry to say this, I am 99% the McCaans are dead.  If they were being held for ransom, a letter would have been received by the family by now.  I've never heard of a couple in their late seventies being sold into hard labour or as sex slaves.  At best they might have been left bound in the middle of nowhere and been unable to get free.  I think more likely they have probably been shot at close range and are lying in the woods somewhere, possibly in a shallow grave - though I doubt the sort of perp who would set fire to their motorhome would bother to dig anything elaborate.

So the question arises as to motivation.  In this case, I think it would be some combination of a "thrill kill" and profit.  We know the McCaans had bank cards, but they were never used.  This could either indicate that the perpetrator(s) 1) Knew that they could be tracked by doing so, 2) Didn't know the PIN number.  In the latter case, they might have employed some sort of pressure (death threats or torture) to try to extract this information from the McCaans, but the fact that no attempt was made to withdraw money shows that either the McCaans bravely held out, or no attempt to obtain the PIN number was made.   Without a body, confession or weapon, this is just guess work.

One of the two males seen onboard could have been Mr. McCaan himself.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 08:33:23 PM
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the 1986 Glendenning murder in New Brunswick, in which three men (including future serial killer Alan Legere) invaded the home of an elderly couple, beating and binding them to get the combination to their safe.  The old man put up a fierce resistance and was, if memory serves me right, strangled to death.  This case reminds me most of that murder.  It is also noteworthy that the serial killer Alan Legere almost exclusively targettered elderly or middle-aged victims, setting fire to their homes on 50% of the occasions.  He was also known to steal cars.

With no crime scenes to work with except a burnt out motorhome and ditched car (they haven't said anything about evidence found in either), I don't have a whole lot to do this profile on.  However, I imagine the perpetrator to be a lot like Legere: a career criminal, unable to keep a job, probably with numerous failed marriages and possibly children.  He sees himself as a lone wolf, and if there was an accomplice involved, this man will be physicallly and mentally weaker than him - a man with less natural potential for violence, but one that he can dominate into assisting him.  This doesn't mean that the accomplice might not have had some or equal responsibility for the violence, in fact he may have tried to impress the dominant offender by enacting violence on the McCaans.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on November 30, 2010, 08:36:32 PM
I just scooped this photo from Victoria Vader's Facebook profile.  (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=687461569 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=687461569))
Victoria "Vicki" is (Victoria Eva May Manary) Travis' ex-wife.
She lives in Summerland, British Columbia.

The boy in the photo (graduated high school in '09 - guesstimate puts him at 19 years of age todayish).
His name is "Chad Aaron Wild".
Chad's hometown is listed as "Edson, Alberta".
Chad's current city is listed as "Summerland, British Columbia".

This girl in the middle of the photo (horizontal stripes and glasses) is Maeghan Vader.
All of the little girls have varying shades of red hair.

The second photo was posted 03-Jan-2009 and is tagged as "Bobbi-Jo Sztupovszky, Victoria Vader"
There is a Bobbi-Jo Vader Sztupovszky listed on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522226192 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522226192))
There is an Alicia Vader listed as Bobbi-Jo's sibling on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522580865 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522580865))
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 08:48:05 PM
Because of a lack of info, I will keep the profile to one offender.

- White male
- 25-45 years of age (big range yes, but there are no bodies so this calls for broad brush strokes)
- Career criminal.  Probably with numerous priors including b & e and assault.  He WILL have a record.
- Blue collar.
- An outdoorsman, well oriented to the area the vehicles were found in, and probably in good physical shape. You wouldn't want to pick a bar fight with him.
- Probably used a gun to control and/or kill his victims.
- Nasty when drunk.  Probably addictions to drugs or alcohol.
- Somewhat intelligent, but more in a cunning way.  Certainly not educated.  Will be a high school drop out.
- Will have a series of failed marriages and relationships, possibly children.
- Unable to keep a job for longer than 6 months, due to an inability to follow orders or conform to routine.
- Likely unemployed, or doing odd jobs.  Menial labour where he doesn't have to communicate with the public.
- Other criminals in the area will know who he is.
- Harbours a general contempt for society.  Sees himself as an "outlaw" or "rebel" and everyone else as sheep to be preyed on.  Will have no remorse about the murders, and will deny them even when confronted with overwhelming evidence.  If anything will only talk if there is a plea bargain on the table, or if he is told that an accomplice has squealed will attempt to shift the blame over to him.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 30, 2010, 09:07:49 PM

I don't know who you are, but you are hitting on all eight!!!   Good profiling Red Beard.  Basic Narssistic Personality.

Because of a lack of info, I will keep the profile to one offender.

- White male
- 25-45 years of age (big range yes, but there are no bodies so this calls for broad brush strokes)
- Career criminal.  Probably with numerous priors including b & e and assault.  He WILL have a record.
- Blue collar.
- An outdoorsman, well oriented to the area the vehicles were found in, and probably in good physical shape. You wouldn't want to pick a bar fight with him.
- Probably used a gun to control and/or kill his victims.
- Nasty when drunk.  Probably addictions to drugs or alcohol.
- Somewhat intelligent, but more in a cunning way.  Certainly not educated.  Will be a high school drop out.
- Will have a series of failed marriages and relationships, possibly children.
- Unable to keep a job for longer than 6 months, due to an inability to follow orders or conform to routine.
- Likely unemployed, or doing odd jobs.  Menial labour where he doesn't have to communicate with the public.
- Other criminals in the area will know who he is.
- Harbours a general contempt for society.  Sees himself as an "outlaw" or "rebel" and everyone else as sheep to be preyed on.  Will have no remorse about the murders, and will deny them even when confronted with overwhelming evidence.  If anything will only talk if there is a plea bargain on the table, or if he is told that an accomplice has squealed will attempt to shift the blame over to him.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 30, 2010, 09:10:26 PM
I cannot find anything on this Barbara Ann May who is listed in this family tree maker lisst as Travis and Bobbi-Jo's mother.
A little Family History
Edward Robert Vader
Edward Robert Vader (son of Edward Garret Vader and Elizabeth Powels).
He married (1) Barbara Ann May.
He married (2) Jennifer Mary E. Hicks.

Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May are:
Shane Michael Vader, b. September 4, 1968, d. December 2, 1982, Houston, Texas.
+Travis Edward Vader.
Bobbi-Jo Vader.


Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks are:
Alicia Kate Vader.
Elizabeth Brooke Vader.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html)

Found an Edward R. Vader, born Oct 15 1946 58a RR 3 Box  Weimer Texas.
Edward R. Vader age 35 and Linda L. Lawrence age 37 married on April 23, 1982 in Montgomery, Texas
Edward R. Vader age 37 and Jennifer M Hicks age 21 Married on 15 Jun 1984 in Fayette County Texas
Alicia K. Vader was born in Colorado County Texas, to Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks in 28 Apr 1984
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 09:14:42 PM
If there was no evidence (blood) found in the back of the abandoned SUV, then I would guess the bodies had been dumped prior, and that the stealing of the SUV was just a quick getaway plan. In this case, I would focus the search on the area around the motorhome and along the highways leading from the McCaans's home to the spot of the fire. Because of the fire, I suspect the motorhome is the place where the murder most likely took place, although the couple might also have been marched into the woods at some point.  The fire will have been set, to some degree, to cover evidence, but whether this is evidence of murder, ransacking, or just to eliminate the offender's DNA is unknown.  I would imagine that the offender also felt some kind of power gratification in starting the fire, and yes, it MAY be related to the arsons in the area, but not necessarily.  I'd like to add that just because Lyle McCaan was seen filling up on gas in his hometown on July 3, doesn't mean everything was going hunky-dory.  The vehicle might have already been intruded upon, and someone may have been inside with a gun to his wife's head telling her to co-operate.  The fact that nobody reported seeing the McCaans throughout the rest of the day seems to indicate to me that they were confronted by the intruder either during one of their first stops or even as they were leaving home.  I mean did nobody see them stop in at a restaurant along the way?  If they HAD pulled over to the side of the road to help somebody, then you'd think other motorists would remember seeing a motorhome pulling an SUV behind it parked on the shoulder.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 09:23:18 PM
On motivation, I believe the perpetrators thought the McCaans were carrying large amounts of cash and goods in the motorhome, so it would be mostly material.  Might have also thought they could get the PIN number from them.  Without the bodies, it is not really possible to comment on the nature of the violence itself, but I would think if murder occurred it would be 1) to eliminate witnesses OR 2) anger that the Mccaans weren't cooperating OR 3) some kind of group "let's kick this old man's ass" mentality, like the worst kind of juvenile gang members OR 4) some combination of the above.  Drugs and alcohol were probably involved at some level, which may have escalated the violence.

Until there is more evidence, or bodies, that's all I've got for now.  Does the profile fit your man Vader?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 09:33:07 PM
Oh and D1, you asked me if I think this is the work of a serial killer.  Do you have other victims you suspect are linked to the same perp?  If so, I would need the details on those too.  From what I have gathered from this case so far, I would think that the perpetrator (or dominant of the two) would be capable of killing casually and remoreselessly again (he might have already done so), but I wouldn't necessarily say "this is definitely the work of a serial killer".   Once again, the bodies will reveal a lot more info about the psychology of the perp.  Right now, I am seeing this guy as somebody who is compelled to commit multiple crimes, but not necessarily a series of murders.  That doesn't mean he hasn't, it just means he might not have done so in the past or ever do it again.  He would have no compunction about doing so, but I don't think he is DRIVEN to kill.  He takes it too casually - it doesn't define his life or engross his fantasies.  He just doesn't give a rat's ass.

BUT because he doesn't give a rat's ass, if this were a serial killer, it would be difficult to connect his crimes.  Unless you have a bunch more fire-based murders.  I can see this guy as being the kind to shoot a 7-11 clerk in a hold up, then abduct a girl rape and strangle her, then do something like we see with the McCaans.  His casual attitude towards killing means that there will be no ritual or "signature" to it.  Like I said though this is contingent on 1) the evidence shown on the bodies if they are ever recovered, 2) whether you have more fire based homicides in the area you want me to look at.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on November 30, 2010, 09:37:27 PM
Redbeard,  It is a lot like the murder of Bill and his wife Helene Regier, 72 and 73 years of age, in their farm home near Mount Carmel, Ontario in July of 2007 by Jessie Imeson.  He also murdered by strangling, 26 yr old Carlos Rivera in Windsor, Ontario just 2 or 3 days prior.   (http://)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Imeson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Imeson)
 
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the 1986 Glendenning murder in New Brunswick, in which three men (including future serial killer Alan Legere) invaded the home of an elderly couple, beating and binding them to get the combination to their safe.  The old man put up a fierce resistance and was, if memory serves me right, strangled to death.  This case reminds me most of that murder.  It is also noteworthy that the serial killer Alan Legere almost exclusively targettered elderly or middle-aged victims, setting fire to their homes on 50% of the occasions.  He was also known to steal cars.

With no crime scenes to work with except a burnt out motorhome and ditched car (they haven't said anything about evidence found in either), I don't have a whole lot to do this profile on.  However, I imagine the perpetrator to be a lot like Legere: a career criminal, unable to keep a job, probably with numerous failed marriages and possibly children.  He sees himself as a lone wolf, and if there was an accomplice involved, this man will be physicallly and mentally weaker than him - a man with less natural potential for violence, but one that he can dominate into assisting him.  This doesn't mean that the accomplice might not have had some or equal responsibility for the violence, in fact he may have tried to impress the dominant offender by enacting violence on the McCaans.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
Red Beard excellent, glad you took the time to have a look !! There is no doubt that a lot of this fits right in with Mr. Vader. Your profile of the second party also brings forth possibilities of a known poi who fits that description.

The serial killer suspicions come from a sequence of missing and murdered seniors from this same area. Two older women both went missing travelling through the area in their own vehicles. One other went missing from her job at a forestry lookout tower, and a younger woman found dead in a trailer fire on Valentine's day a few years back.
No fires involved with the other disappearances. One body was found on the banks of a river many miles away, vehicle never found. Another's vehicle registration and small amounts of tailight glass found on the banks of the same river, no body or vehicle recovered.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything ritualized going on here, murder almost seems secondary if there is serial involvement. However the only body recovered was badly decomposed with no physical evidence or cod available.

Will go through the details and answer a few minor points and leave a few more questions.
thanks again

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 09:57:33 PM
Hey good comparison Talents Unlimited.  I have heard of Imeson - who would technically be classified as a spree killer, not a serial killer.  The difference is basically he doesn't have a calm down period, it's just a steady stream of mayhem until he's caught.  The guy responsible for the McCaan murders I think would be bordering on this sort of mentality.  The striking difference to me is that the McCaan murderer has managed to hide the bodies successfully for half a year.  This indicates an older offender with somewhat more self control than Imeson.  Imeson pretty much implicated himself right off the bat in the first murder, and didn't bother to hide any of the bodies, leaving a trail police could follow after him.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 10:03:46 PM
D1 - Good to hear.  Maybe they have the right guys after all.  If I were the cops, I'd be focusing on getting the accomplice to confess, or try and convince Vader that he had, so that Vader would try to shift blame onto him.

I would definitely be interesting in hearing about that Valentine's Day trailer fire.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Concerned on November 30, 2010, 10:10:51 PM
Impressive, once again, Redbeard. ty.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on November 30, 2010, 10:33:05 PM
Thanks for all the effort you put into this redbeard.

I'd like to add that just because Lyle McCaan was seen filling up on gas in his hometown on July 3, doesn't mean everything was going hunky-dory.  The vehicle might have already been intruded upon, and someone may have been inside with a gun to his wife's head telling her to co-operate.  r.

Your statement above is something that I have wondered about since early on, and posted in the first thread. That is the fact that Vader may have already entered the motorhome at some point  and was with Marie when Lyle entered.

Quote
I've wondered if Vader would really have had to overpower both of the McCanns. It could have happened another way. It's occurred to me that for one reason or another Lyle could have been the only one to have gotten out of the motorhome. Perhaps Marie had stayed inside to attend to something. What if Vader had been able to enter the motorhome unseen? We have no idea where Lyle was, or what he was doing. Suppose Lyle returned and found that Vader was already there with Marie. Perhaps even threatened to hurt her. Put yourself in that position. What would you do? I think it is possible that Lyle would have complied willingly with what ever was asked of him. No struggle necessary. That of course, is just my opinion.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on November 30, 2010, 10:43:46 PM
...interesting.....

According to "Genealogical Reserch of Alberta, there were 2 Vader children die in 1982:

Vader, Elizabeth
Vader, Shane Michael
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 10:49:42 PM
We tried to get more info on the person killed and the Valentine's day fire but not much was found, just a suspicious thing for now. Hopefully someone will recall and post something more.

Deb, can't rule it out that's for sure. Tried to find an address for Vader's sister to see how far away she lived from the gas bar and the McCaan's. Haven't seen much on that.

And the missing Vader mother and dead children thing is getting more interesting!

Well you sure have left us with a lot of fodder RedB.. selected a few of your comments in black, added a few comments and questions in red.

I think more likely they have probably been shot at close range and are lying in the woods somewhere, possibly in a shallow grave - though I doubt the sort of perp who would set fire to their motorhome would bother to dig anything elaborate.

Digging a little deeper, what might the perps be capable of? How much consideration to detail? How far would they travel with bodies on board if they did?

One of the two males seen onboard could have been Mr. McCaan himself.
The witnesses were quite specific, late 30’s max.

The old man put up a fierce resistance and was, if memory serves me right, strangled to death.  This case reminds me most of that murder

Mr. McCaan was 78 but fit, its possible, the McCaan children may have a better take on that possibility.  

This doesn't mean that the accomplice might not have had some or equal responsibility for the violence, in fact he may have tried to impress the dominant offender by enacting violence on the McCaans.

Could also explain the accomplice’s silence, or the secondary perp even forced to participate in the murder to ensure his silence?

Will have no remorse about the murders, and will deny them even when confronted with overwhelming evidence.  If anything will only talk if there is a plea bargain on the table, or if he is told that an accomplice has squealed will attempt to shift the blame over to him.

This fits near where the case is now, Vader is in custody, no charges laid as of yet. There seems to be numerous reports of Vader being seen with the suv and with two others, one male one female. No doubt the police know who they are. Vader had two weeks to work out a story and strategy before being picked up.

In this case, I would focus the search on the area around the motorhome and along the highways leading from the McCaans's home to the spot of the fire.

That has been the primary focus to date, no success yet. Recent disclosure of the free weigh scale has heightened interest in that area near the junction to where the motorhome was found..  


Because of the fire, I suspect the motorhome is the place where the murder most likely took place, although the couple might also have been marched into the woods at some point.  The fire will have been set, to some degree, to cover evidence, but whether this is evidence of murder, ransacking, or just to eliminate the offender's DNA is unknown

I haven’t wanted to mention this possibility but it has come to mind several times. Hence, the McCaan’s are kept alive till at the designated location, anything goes wrong the perps have live people and not murder victims with them. Is that thinking a possibility with these kind of people?


The fact that nobody reported seeing the McCaans throughout the rest of the day seems to indicate to me that they were confronted by the intruder either during one of their first stops or even as they were leaving home.  I mean did nobody see them stop in at a restaurant along the way?  If they HAD pulled over to the side of the road to help somebody, then you'd think other motorists would remember seeing a motorhome pulling an SUV behind it parked on the shoulder.

This has been a heavily discussed subject right from the start. A lot of attention has been given to try and narrow down the location of the invasion. With Vader living right around the vicinity where everything was found, and with this being along the McCaan’s designated route anyway, we thought that significant. The news reports of the missing couple and pictures of the motorhome didn’t show up on the news until at least a week later. It’s a pretty busy highway and it was the start of summer. We looked for a spot where the McCaan’s may have pulled in for lunch or something. Mr. McCaan a former trucker may have used the weigh scale location on trips before, that was our best shot at a possible entry point. The suv was dumped a few hundred yards away from there, the motorhome down the next road over.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 11:27:11 PM
Digging a little deeper, what might the perps be capable of? How much consideration to detail? How far would they travel with bodies on board if they did?

My instinct is that these guys aren't very cerebral (not that they're dumb, they just wouldn't be intellectually gratified knowing that they'd made the bodies impossible to find), and probably pretty lazy. They're not going to spend a whole lot of time disposing of the bodies.  They might drive into a secluded or remote area, but I don't think they'll be far from the road or trail. Plus, why go to elaborate lengths to hide the bodies after you've drawn attention to yourself by incincerating a mobile home? As far as offenders who start fires, my research tells me they tend to be fairly lacksadaiscal (sp?) about body disposal, and in fact I'm amazed they were moved at all.  I guess it's the whole "display of power" thing brought on by causing a fire.  Chances are the bodies are not that well hidden, probably just been overlooked in searching.  It happens all the time.  They might be burnt or buried in a shallow grave, but I would rule out dismemberment.  That's way too meticulous for somebody who likes fire.

Oh yeah, by now the animals will have got to the remains.  If they find anything it'll be scattered bones.  Summer heat will have seen to a rapid decomposition.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 11:37:49 PM
This is sort of the quandry:
Quote
They're not going to spend a whole lot of time disposing of the bodies.  They might drive into a secluded or remote area, but I don't think they'll be far from the road or trail. Plus, why go to elaborate lengths to hide the bodies after you've drawn attention to yourself by incincerating a mobile home?

If the bodies were disposed of first, then the attention comes too late and the location chosen for incineration could even be diversionary? They did wait two full days before torching the motorhome? Why the wait?

Quote
As far as offenders who start fires, my research tells me they tend to be fairly lacksadaiscal (sp?) about body disposal, and in fact I'm amazed they were moved at all.

Why didn't they just burn the bodies along with the motorhome?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 11:42:51 PM
d1 - The witnesses were quite specific, late 30’s max.

red - Okay, so it's confirmed - two perps.  Excellent.  Makes sense.

d1 - Could also explain the accomplice’s silence, or the secondary perp even forced to participate in the murder to ensure his silence?

red - you bet

d1 - Hence, the McCaan’s are kept alive till at the designated location, anything goes wrong the perps have live people and not murder victims with them. Is that thinking a possibility with these kind of people?

red - I don't think that's the case.  The only kind of people who are going to be that organized are professional kidnappers, and there has been no ransom note.  It would just be to much bother for the kind of irresponsible perps we were describing to house, feed and watch over an elderly couple.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on November 30, 2010, 11:51:22 PM
d1 - If the bodies were disposed of first, then the attention comes too late and the location chosen for incineration could even be diversionary? They did wait two full days before torching the motorhome? Why the wait?

rb - good point...hmmm... well this IS all contingent on their being no evidence of blood in the SUV.  That's stuff we don't know.  the bodies could have been transported after the fire, but there would be evidence.  Another possibility is that they came back to torch it as an afterthought.... got all paranoid about the evidence they left inside, and returned to burn it.


d1 - Why didn't they just burn the bodies along with the motorhome?

Couple possibilities.  1) They dumped them first, and thought about burning the motorhome later to get rid of evidence, or just for kicks (recent arsons in area), 2) They were worried the bodies wouldn't be burnt properly before the fire went out/was put out, which could leave DNA evidence, cause of death evidence, 3) They took the McCaans to another location to try and torture PIN number info from them first, were unsuccessful, killed them at this location, and then decided to dump and burn the motorhome.


You're right though, it's weird... typically you'd expect to see the bodies left inside the motorhome.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on November 30, 2010, 11:55:38 PM
Could it be possible, that they were buried in the ground, under the motor home, before it was set ablaze? If any dogs were brought to the area, it is possible they could not pick up a scent, due to chemicals from both the MH and the fire department. just a thought to throw your way..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 12:02:04 AM
Somewhere In this weird mix, the motorhome taken over on the third, seen on the 4th, incinerated on the 5th, it appears someone stayed with it all the time. The moho's whereabouts are unknown for about the first twenty four hours. It is still unclear whether the suv stayed with the motorhome all the while til the 5th.

Vader who had not seen his sister in months apparently just happens to show up there in Edmonton on the 4th alone miles away from the scene of the crime. The description of the vehicle he showed up in has never been disclosed, he may have driven over night.

If Vader was involved in the crime, maybe there is some degree of thought towards alibi and maybe even between event co-ordination not to torch untill alibi firmly established?

I believe that Vader did graduate, had his own consulting business at one time but then seemed to be caught up in a downward spiral the last few years. Maybe he's smarter than he looks or someone else is?

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 01, 2010, 12:09:20 AM
D1 - Drugs kill braincells...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 12:18:16 AM
Which is why I also ask if maybe someone else was the brains here? Maybe it is just coincidental that the motorhome leaves from its hiding spot of the third and displays itself for a full day on the 4th at a public campground where there are sure to be witnesses on the same day that Vader shows up unexpectedly miles away to display himself to sis and stepmom? Then the motorhome is torched right beside the campground while the same witnesses are still there to recall and verify it all. Hey it ain't Vader, we got the wrong guy?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 01, 2010, 12:25:52 AM
Maybe they werent banking on maintenance/groundskeeper to knock on the door? Figured they'd abandon it there and hope that its just another story or campers going missing in the wilderness? I do think that it was torched so much later because it was an after thought. They got nervous and fell back on methods that have worked for him in the past.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 12:45:46 AM
I have trouble with that, there is no free camping anywhere, someone is gonna come calling sooner or later. You'd have to know someone would come calling. There were other witnesses, other campers all around besides the caretaker.. Why not just abandon it there if that was the plan, they stayed with it a whole day waiting for some reason. And Vader puts an alibi in place on the same day! He is a suspect, if he is involved, I can't help viewing this timing as an indicator of some sort of planning.

But there are new thoughts coming out about various details that I will have to rethink.. I do believe this part is somewhat important in determining how their minds were working. What it means??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 01, 2010, 12:47:24 AM
When I used to go camping as a kid, we never had to pay...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 12:49:19 AM
How old are ya girl?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 01, 2010, 12:49:50 AM
A gentleman never asks a lady her age....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 12:52:24 AM
ahh so true, apologies maam.. Ok, I believe they have signs up with the rates for type of vehicle and length of stay everywhere, even at the government sites now. I believe the same holds true for minnow lake.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 01, 2010, 01:01:29 AM
Why Sunday to go to Minnow Lake Campground?
Why Minnow Lake Campground at all?
Why not burn the Motor Home on the Sunday instead of waiting till' Monday?
Why not burn the SUV too?
Did they go East, West, North, or South?   From St. Albert, Nition Junction, Carrot Creek, Minnow Lake Campground, Edson, Hinton, ...?
Did no one see the Motor Home and SUV on Highway 16, because it did not go West until Sunday?
Why draw attention to where you put the bodies by setting a fire in the same area?
Minnow Lake Campground is most likely the half way mark to or from somewhere, to do with where the McCann's are, or at the opposite end of where they are.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 01, 2010, 01:17:48 AM
I was going to ask about that whole paying thing.  I've camped at about 5 different places in Ontario, and each time we've not only had to pay, but provide some sort of identification.  Is this not the case out west?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 01, 2010, 01:25:17 AM
Sorry I'm still trying to catch up with the details of this case.  How do we know that the McCaans didn't decide to stay at Minnow Lake campsite on the 3rd or 4th?  How do we know the vehicle was taken over on the 3rd?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 01:37:18 AM
Been awhile since i was out camping, (not as long as some apparently) but the attendants did come by and record the licence number and issued a receipt. I don't think the fee's or attendant knocking would come as that much a surprise.

There were witnessses to the motorhome's arrival at the minnow lake campground on the fourth. They gave the occupants description as 30's -late 30's.. There was a new video released recently- witnesses speak-
http://watch.ctv.ca/372388#clip372388 (http://watch.ctv.ca/372388#clip372388)

Due to travel plans of the McCaan's, location Vader was staying at the time, sightings next day, along with one now ruled out at a different lake, assumptions were made that the McCaan's were overtaken in the vicinity. The driving time from the st. albert gas bar to Niton area was just a couple hours. If it wasn't taken over here, why bring the motorhome back from somewhere else to torch it right on your own doorstep? Thats if Vader was really involved..

What do you think of the possibilities - coincidence vs staged timing for the events leading up to the motorhome being torched?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 01, 2010, 11:37:18 AM
Stopping two hours from home, is like having a picnic in your back yard, when you are trying to get somewhere 6 hours away, before supper. 
I cannot see them stopping any time before at least 3 hours.  There are two pull over West of Hinton. 
These guys have a big, big playpen to play in. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 02:22:52 PM
regarding the camping thing and paying. We have 2 areas where u just grab a site and later on someone comes by and collects money..By the site or like in minnowlake there is a envelope u put money in and insert in a box. where i am u just put a occupied sign in a clear box..Wether perps came from east or west landing at minnowlake will matter as to where the takeover was. IF in st.albert the question is why drive all the way back to niton area..If these are the same perps that got the other elderly people then killing is no big deal...Its just to uncanny how elderly people are going missing up there...The main best drop off is a water area where they end up much further away......Wasnt it in edson the a jean was last seen using her credit card...She ends up in the north thompson river..So what body of water would lead to that up there or how far would u have to travel to get to water that will eventually run into the thompson river. So far the forestery woman hasnt been found either.. Will she pop up in the thompson too as well ???Isnt there a ATHABASCA RIVER off a forestry road not far past hinton...Good drop off areas up that road. Its a widely used log trucking road.....Very long road with many off roads.....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 02:27:10 PM
Mccanns as bret said, would of never stopped there or anywhere else that way redbeard....It was a straight thru drive to blueriver then kelowna. lyle and marie arranged for a 5 day holiday with friends in these places before meeting their daughter trudy in abbotsford bc on the 10th at abbotsford airport..then going camping about 35 mins away in chilliwack bc at cultus lake..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 01, 2010, 02:36:23 PM
Redbeard:   The last sighting of the McCanns was the video of Mr McCann filling up the Motorhome in St Albert the morning (9:30ish) of the day they left (July 3)....No other sightings since.
24mindy:    If Bret is saying his parents normally wouldn't stop until BlueRiver, what if they did have to take a bathroom break?
I know this has already been discussed, and a few of us mentioned a bathroom break possibly due to too much coffee, or diretics..... but Bret thinks no way?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 03:37:49 PM
I believe all Brett said was that they wouldn't have stopped at a campground off the highway and definitely not to overnight. Whether they stopped for a bathroom break, a coffee or even for lunch somewhere along this route is open for question. Maybe they got up a little earlier, drank less or more coffee than usual, they had a usual lunch time or usual coffee time schedule or whatever, we don't know but somewhere along the trail they apparently met up with Vader. Vader lived around Niton so I would suspect this is as good a vicinity to concentrate on as any unless something surfaces to suggest otherwise. If it did occur elsewhere, we don't have any more information for that than here, no reported sightings have come in from anywhere.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 05:08:27 PM
Im sure the mcanns had their special spots they would stop at..I would say IF from st.albert to niton is 2 hrs then its poss that they may of stopped there.But if they had used a public washroom either gas station or a resturant , the MH would of been seen...U pull a big MH in those places they would get noticed.Either they are hush hush up there or they had pulled over where no public stores were around or taken over long before they hit the niton area...There seems to be a fair amount of small towns along the way to niton and on. They had to of pulled over where there would be enough room as the side of the highway to small..Has the company that was doing construction at edson on the highway on july 5th been talked to. If they had seen the SUV, IF it had been taken out that way or coming back. Most flag people notice vehicles....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 01, 2010, 05:18:21 PM
The fact that the SUV and MOtorhome and Vader and Bulmer's house (Vader's arrest on other charges) are all in the vicinity of Niton Junction (more or less in the middle).....seems to keep us in that triangle..we need more clues to send us elsewhere..

If you asked my kids if they thought their parents would make a bathroom stop on the route, they would definitely know that YES, If my parents left in the morning they would have to stop because my Mom would have to use the bathroom....and it wouldn't be too far into the trip either.   
 
How much work is it to use the Motorhome washroom?   Is it quick and easy to set up?   Pull over in a spot they know they can easily pull out of ( that new stop over on #16 ?).   NIton Junction?  It is such a puzzle.   It is too hard to get people to remember if they saw the Motorhome/McCanns because they weren't deemed missing soon enough.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 05:37:22 PM
To use a Mh bathroom wouldnt be a hassle as long as they had some water in the tank or u couldnt flush. Lyle would of had to prob let a bit of the slide out for marie to get to the bathroom..Im sure police have asked bret about all of his dads known stops etc...No one knows lyle and marie better but them...Since everything has been exhausted as for any info of lyles road habits its hard to say as we dont know. its only guessing...They stopped any real long distant travels and only went thru alberta or bc so that shows they were slowing down as aging people...Can anyone take a gander at why LANCE has not be involved in this public wise. His name never mentioned. Seen a pic of him. bigger guy.older than bret ..gray haired with a hat...and looks like lyle..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 01, 2010, 05:46:59 PM
Who is Lance?  Brett's brother?  First I've heard there was another brother.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 06:10:37 PM
Lance is brets older brother. Apparently his wife was at the candle vigil..Just read for first time of stephani that woman at the look out tower missing. 4years..? unreal. makes me wonder about the mccanns.. Will they ever be found???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Finding the McCaans has proved a most difficult task, more so than anyone would at first think possible given the supposed drugged out origins of this crime. Is there more to this than any of us suspect? This is a brief summary of the key events in a short story form with an interpretation that attempts to tie it all together. I'm sure there are other ways of putting the pieces together but for the sake of discussion this is a starting point. Maybe as the big picture takes form it will force some more of the little pieces into place? The story is a continuation of a point raised earlier. attached as a pdf below

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 01, 2010, 10:32:10 PM
Very good D1.. really good..before i forget that old man from wabamun was found in a field. he killed himself...He drove a blue van..very good read D1...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 01, 2010, 10:38:32 PM
Good read D1.   I am tired and need to re-read it again the the morrow.... Good night all.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 02, 2010, 04:09:42 AM
Really, really interesting and very well-done, D1. 

Now there is another McCann son, Lance, in the mix is interesting.  I wonder where he fits into all this?  Does anyone know anything about him?  I keep feeling there is some kind of connection, somewhere, between at least one of the McCanns and Vader. Is there any possibility that any of the McCanns knew any of the Vaders before Lyle and Marie disappeared?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 02, 2010, 07:30:06 AM
The lookout tower missing woman bothers me because the pot of water that she was boiling for tea/coffee was boiling on the stove when the co-workers came for a 'well being' check, after she didn't make her morning call to them.  As far as the perp would know, this pot could've boiled dry and a fire might have ensued.   Is that what he wanted??   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2010, 11:38:45 AM
From what I recall, Lance was the eldest son, older than Brett. Believe he was one of the older guys running the quad along the roads during their private search.

Stephanie Stewart from the lookout tower, yes another active senior just disappeared. The boiling pot is a little off, but they say that was part of her daily routine so who knows? Could be either way on the fire.

When I was writing the pdf story above, (thnx) I was also struck by the connection to how the only thing found from May Millings vehicle as well as the Mccaan's motorhome was the registration papers. One set somehow "rescued" from  a motorhome engulfed in flames, the other set the only item just coincidentally found laying on the bank of a river at May's supposed crash site.

May Milling disappeared after the McCaan incident so not likely connected unless Vader isn't our man? Or his partner was still active?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 02, 2010, 11:41:42 AM
lance has prob taken this to hard and staying out of the media..He,s on mary-annes facebook friends list.. There could be something fishy..About 10 yrs ago I read that lyle passed his company over to the boys..Was there a relationship with lyle and lance. Hatred??? Alot of anger...Would have to ask bret but not a very nice thing to ask. Alot of people suspect family but that seems to out for me...But stranger things have happened..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2010, 12:37:46 PM
I don't think it's of any value questioning the McCaans. Nothing indicates anything untoward on their part. Which in a way has to do with forming the big picture...

There are a lot of details that we have discussed along the way and we all have different points of view on many an item. In our own minds we all form a picture of what may have happened. The details have to fit in somehow with that picture and we interpret them accordingly. Point being, unless we know the big picture that each of us is working from, some of the interpretation of each point when viewed in isolation gets lost on the rest of us. I am reminded of a particular picture I once saw in stores, when viewed from one angle, it looked like a young woman but when viewed from another, it turned into an old woman. It wasn’t so much changing the physical angle that allowed you to see the other, but changing your internal perspective to see it.
which one do you see-
http://store.exploratorium.edu/browse.cfm/old-woman-young-woman-optical-illusion-poster/4,806.html (http://store.exploratorium.edu/browse.cfm/old-woman-young-woman-optical-illusion-poster/4,806.html)

I left an example of the big picture above in the pdf, I am not committed to that view but it does incorporate most all the detail into a somewhat plausible scenario. If I were to make the following statement without you being aware of where I was coming from, this would be Greek to you and mean nothing.

I think Vader was seen in connection with the motor home on July 3rd. I believe Vader knows he was seen and maybe even by someone from the area who could identify him. I believe that is the real reason he left to set up an alibi for the next day and why the motor home was not torched immediately. In other words, eyewitnesses may be available; that may be why Vader has been named a suspect, but just try and prove it!

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 02, 2010, 02:27:21 PM
Vader will be in jail only on warranted charges..You cant jail a suspect...They found something that just suspects him in this case..What they have will never be enough to charge him so he may remain a suspect but without real proof...Everything and anything that could of proved he was involved is either burnt or tongues are so twisted they cant speak..Theres nothing more to go on with vader. Need someone to speak and that is less likely EVER...BUT at least with this case there is a possible person who knows and thats vader..With the other cases the police have nothing to go on....No one remembers the MH because nothing unusual would make them notice or the MH wasnt on 16 long enough for anyone to notice..Someone would of had to be on 16 following behind or passing them if to slow..When staring right in front of other vehicle ahead you take notice as you may be paying attention to the SUV and most people like to look at license plates for something to do.Going by what i have done..I know time from the 3rd to when trudy reported her parents missing is a big gap for people to remember..What happened to the fishermans story..He was so sure he saw MH and they way he described how the MH backed into trees makes sense.Now its all not true?? He did wait a long time to come forward.. What is wierd that it sounds like these 2 guys are much older. Why is it that 2 older guys see the MH..The camper guy is the only one at minnowlake that saw the MH but no others???How many campers were camping at minnowlake that wkend.? people to scared to speak up? to get involved???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2010, 02:44:32 PM
re:
Quote
No one remembers the MH because nothing unusual would make them notice or the MH wasnt on 16 long enough for anyone to notice..

I differ imo, I really believe someone spotted the motorhome but it may not have been on the highway. Casual observers would not likely recall it, people like the fisherman who saw things a little unusual would. Perhaps the fisherman is a protected witness, perhaps they have reason not to divulge?

Vader has been named a suspect, not a poi. Means there has to be something substantial. No evidence in motorhome, was named a poi before suv was found, named a suspect before suv was tested for dna, something lurks!

Only other possibility? witnesses?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 02:54:13 PM
That is exactly what it is Mindy.. People are too scared to speak up, for the simple fact, of Vaders back ground, Vaders connections to the drug world, makes people scared to talk, as they know they will be dealt with, if it ever comes out, that they snitched.. Top that with the fact, that his druggie friends, have had so many run ins with the LE, that there is no way, they will help the LE out. An eye for an eye, so to speak..I know that some of the drug users in Edson, who know Vader, have been questioned by LE, and they refuse to say anything, their views are, that if the McCanns are ment to be found, it will happen, but not with their help.
I am hoping to find out, who the woman, that was seen with Vader is.. it may answer a lot of questions, just knowing who she is..but thus far, I am having no luck, getting that info. Just like no one seems to know anything about Travis's birth mom.. It just seems like she dropped off the face of the earth. I have asked questions, but no one knows, if she remarried, if she has passed away, or anything. The only info I got, was that she stayed in Texas, to be close to Shanes grave. From there, there is nothing..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 02, 2010, 03:07:16 PM
when u look good at the sites at minnowlake the sites are level. there was nothing suspicious...If this had been another MH would he feel the same??? NOt leveling a Rv is not unusual unless the camper thought it should of been done instantly..He didnt say NO ONE CAME OUT OF MH ..He just says he sees them in MH BUT didnt find it odd that no one came out?..A whole day and night there and no one sets foot out of MH and he doesnt find that odd but only the leveling. The media wasnt asking if he saw them out of MH. ?? ..DID he also see caretaker go to MH since he seemed to see everything else...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 02, 2010, 03:09:29 PM
doubt vaders mom could help in this..If u could find her..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2010, 03:15:10 PM
But maybe T.V. mother could help, what did happen to the other sibling Shane? How traumatic an event was it, was it murder? Remember look back to where it all began, the first.. It is important to at least find out before ruling it out.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 02, 2010, 03:25:17 PM
why would it be odd that no one was seen around the MH at the campground? Was the grounds guy watching it 24/7... perhaps the nice people that camped decided to go for a walk and stretch their legs after a long drive (wouldnt have known how short of a drive) or perhaps they went to get some supplies. Maybe the occupants drove all night and are sleeping... there are a lot of reasons to rationally explain why no one was at the MH when the employee came by. And if you are not expecting a crime to have been committed (its not like there was an amber alert...) you wouldnt think twice about it being odd that no one was there or that it wasnt leveled.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 03:31:04 PM
I agree D1. We need to know what has happened in Travis's life, to find out, why he is so angery with the world. 95 seems to be the turning point in his life, where he turned to a life of crime. What happened then, to turn a respectable young man, into a criminal, who would burn his own wife & childrens home, or was he always like this, but just never got caught. Why was Bobbi-jo in foster care? Is she defending Travis, because she has lost her brother & mother, and is afraid to loose Travis as well? what happened to this family. We know that Shane passed away Dec 2/ 1982. Is this what caused Ed & Barbara's marraige to fall apart? and why did the kids go with Ed, and not stay with Barbara? Was there any communication between Barbara and her kids, after the divorce??  Peicing together the past, may help get a better inside look, as to what makes Travis tick..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 02, 2010, 03:54:42 PM
Exactly, you have put into words exactly how I feel too.  Something or some things must have gone terribly wrong in the Vader family.  It would help to know how their son died in Texas.  And did the father Vader re-marry in Texas, to the wife we saw in the Special Report?  I have re-watched the interview with her and Mr. Vader, and something just doesn't seem 'right' with her.  She seems so evasive, keeps looking away.  Maybe scared?  I can understand her being upset with all this concerning her step-son, but to me there is something else going on too.  Maybe she is worried some folks ARE going to dig up the Vader past family history?  Especially concerning the dead son in Texas, and the wife and mother that seems to have disappeared? Something has gone on in that family to make more than one child very angry and act out.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 02, 2010, 04:04:35 PM
I also have wondered all along, how the registration papers of the McCann MH somehow managed to be grabbed from the raging fire.  A MH burned on the highway near our home long ago, and with the fuel and propane tanks, all the wood interior, it was an inferno.  And it really burned fast. Right from the start I wondered who and how did someone get those papers.  And then the same thing for May Milling, only in water this time.  What are the chances of these things happening, and to people who have disappeared heading down the same highway via Blue River and Kamloops?  Or is it staged?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 02, 2010, 04:13:51 PM
Vader Family and where is Travis Vader's Biological Mother?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vader Family and where is Travis Vader's Biological Mother?

Where does Travis Vader's Biological Mother live? What is her surname now?
If he has abandonment issues and it would appear that he might. He may well be raging against elders and others for this reason. . Then that would explain a bit more about this case.


From Family tree online: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com).../UHP-0875.html

Edward Robert Vader
Edward Robert Vader (son of Edward Garret Vader and Elizabeth Powels).
He married (1) Barbara Ann May.
He married (2) Jennifer Mary E. Hicks.

Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May are:
Shane Michael Vader, b. September 4, 1968, d. December 2, 1982, Houston, Harris County,Texas.
+Travis Edward Vader. [ I added: Born approx 1972]
Bobbi-Jo Vader.

Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks:
Children of Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks are:
Alicia Kate Vader.
Elizabeth Brooke Vader. [I added: no source, but I have heard that she died.]

Things I have discovered:
Class of 64’ I find Edward Robert Vader... Ardrossan Jr Sr High School, in Ardrossan Alberta. Not sure if he was born in Alberta or moved there and went to school there.
Found an Edward R. Vader, born Oct 15 1946 don’t know year he’s in 58a RR 3 Box Weimer Texas.
Edward R. Vader age 35 and Linda L. Lawrence age 37 married on April 23, 1982 in Montgomery, Texas
Edward R. Vader age 37 and Jennifer M Hicks age 21 Married on 15 Jun 1984 in Fayette County Texas
Alicia Vader was born in Colorado County Texas, to Edward Vader and Jennifer Hicks in 28 Apr 1984
Looks like Ed Vader was in Niton Jnt. In 1995 by the telephone directory listings.
From the Toronto Sun about Travis Vader: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../14756441.html (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../14756441.html)
Vader attended high school in Niton Junction, about 45 km east of Edson, in the area where Lyle and Marie McCann's burned-out RV was discovered earlier this month.

I realize this thread is not about Mr. Vader's parents, but it about finding the McCann's and I am presenting these informations in search of a link, that could give some sort of link to their disappearance.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 04:41:06 PM
Good Job Talents..
Elizabeth Brook, is very much alive. I beleave she is living in Edson.
I knew that Ed & Jennifer were married in Texas, as I had posted in an earlier post, but did not have the year.
From what I have found out, Ed was born in Canada, Great grampa William Clarence was born in Cole Hill Ontario, and remained in Ontario his whole life. Edward Garret (Ed's dad) was born in Ontario as well, but moved to Sherwood park area, after he married... I beleave that Ed would have been born in either Edmonton or Sherwood Park.
I went to school with one of Ed's brothers, sons. I don't remember Travis from school, I think they moved back to Mackay just after I moved away from Niton in 86.. But I will look through some old year books to find out when he started in Niton..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 04:44:44 PM
Does anyone know if this sighting was ever confirmed by the LE??


Quote
Possible Calgary connection to missing couple's case

By: ctvcalgary.ca

Date: Sunday Jul. 18, 2010 5:10 PM PT

Calgary police are investigating a possible sighting of a man wanted for questioning in the search for a missing Alberta couple.

An employee at a gas station on Strathcona Boulevard SW says he believes Travis Vader stopped to fill up with gas there Sunday. The man in question was driving a white minivan.

Police confirm to CTV News they have seized the video surveillance tape from the gas station and have passed it on to RCMP.

Vader is wanted for questioning in the disappearance of missing St. Albert couple, Lyle and Marie McCann, who mysteriously vanished two weeks ago.

38-year-old Vader is an accused arsonist with a long list of weapons charges. He is considered dangerous and police say he should not be approached.

Anyone who has information about Vader is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

 http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100718/CGY_vader_spotting_100718/20100718?hub=BritishColumbiaHome (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100718/CGY_vader_spotting_100718/20100718?hub=BritishColumbiaHome)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 02, 2010, 04:59:51 PM
I don't believe it ever was, there were quite a few coming in around then. By coincidence this was from just the day before the swat team went in to get Vader. Police wouldn't be using news reports to divert perps attention elsewhere just as they were about to enter? naa
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 02, 2010, 05:10:24 PM
Edsonmom,
Heard about this sighting of Travis Vader in Calgary, at the time, but it never did surface again in the news.  At least not that I am aware of.   
Wonder if CTV, investigator reporter, ever followed it up.  There would be video surveillance footage from there too.
Makes you wonder how much of this mystery is hide and go seek, subdued by the LE, or how much don't they really know yet. 
I know they the LE are working on this extremely hard, and I do know that they are surfing these blogs and threads for leads too.
There is one blog that is basically in support of Travis Vader.  I guess everybody needs to have their day.  Kind of like women who marry jail bird, mass murders, talk about female control freaks.  I yes I am a female, but I call them as I see them.  This woman, or girl seen with Travis Vader, during the weeks leading up to his arrest on July 19th, 2010.  Any word on who she is?   She must be a hurting unit.  I don't mean to be ignorant, but I am sick of this whole horrid mess.  And it is not just in Alberta.  However, it is in Alberta that the McCann's where confronted with it.   I just read in my local newspaper the local editor, yarned his way through a political bashing story about how safe it was to walk down the streets of the area I live in.  What a complete idiot.  A complete blithering idiot, ignorant of the world around him.  No where in North America and in many European and Asian countries has the tidal wave of crime, not touched from the use of Chrystal Meth, Cocaine, crack cocaine, etc...   Chrystal Meth and Oxy's  are at the front, because they are the easiest and cheapest to get.  Sick of it.  Sick of it.  And anyone of us, anyone can be affected by this, by the outreach that the users have in crime, to support their habit.  I am truly pissed, to put it in plain language. 

Does anyone know if this sighting was ever confirmed by the LE??


Quote
Possible Calgary connection to missing couple's case

By: ctvcalgary.ca

Date: Sunday Jul. 18, 2010 5:10 PM PT

Calgary police are investigating a possible sighting of a man wanted for questioning in the search for a missing Alberta couple.

An employee at a gas station on Strathcona Boulevard SW says he believes Travis Vader stopped to fill up with gas there Sunday. The man in question was driving a white minivan.

Police confirm to CTV News they have seized the video surveillance tape from the gas station and have passed it on to RCMP.

Vader is wanted for questioning in the disappearance of missing St. Albert couple, Lyle and Marie McCann, who mysteriously vanished two weeks ago.

38-year-old Vader is an accused arsonist with a long list of weapons charges. He is considered dangerous and police say he should not be approached.

Anyone who has information about Vader is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

 http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100718/CGY_vader_spotting_100718/20100718?hub=BritishColumbiaHome (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100718/CGY_vader_spotting_100718/20100718?hub=BritishColumbiaHome)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on December 02, 2010, 05:12:38 PM
Do you think it is a good idea to be posting where people live and what their names might be now. It could put an innocent person in the limelight and it is kind of not fair to them. It is not their fault if their son is a monster, if he is found to be guilty of this terrible crime. I just think maybe a PM on names would be a good idea. The wrong person might see the names and think they can do some kind of justice in their own hands, you never know. The world is full of nuts out there. Just a thought.  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 05:22:31 PM
Cape, I understand your concern with my above mentioned post. The reason I posted addy for Grampa Vader, is that he has since passed on, and did not even think about how this could affect anyone that may be living there now, if it is even still there.. I do however see your point, and will go edit my post of this info, as well as travis's aunt & uncles names..
Thanks for pointing this out to me, as this is something I did not even think about..  ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 02, 2010, 07:18:57 PM
I have spent the afternoon rereading news reports on this case.. A few things that I never noticed before, brought up new questions for me..
Please bear with me on this..

Gary Godwin, a spokesman for Prince George RCMP, revealed Wednesday that on Tuesday afternoon a couple came into his detachment saying they had seen an SUV matching that description with Alberta licence plates ending in the numbers 289.

"Apparently it has been in town, we think, for approximately four days," Godwin told radio station CKPG.
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/78854--person-of-interest-in-missing-couple-case-spotted-in-alberta (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/78854--person-of-interest-in-missing-couple-case-spotted-in-alberta)
This puts the SUV in PG around Sat the 9Th - the 13Th, Person who had it, was driving slow, making sure, someone would spot it.. .. Vader was with his sister from the 4Th to the 9Th, we know he needed an alibi ..We know that he was spotted in Niton/peers area around the week of the 13Th.
so where was it from the 5Th - the 9Th. Vader & accomplice, would have easily been able to drive to Edmonton, on the 4Th, as SUV & Mh, were not yet "Missing". Technically, if accomplice was driving, Bobbi-jo, would not be lying, by saying Travis was NOT DRIVING the SUV. After dropping Vader off, accomplice would have had to go back to Minnow Lake, to burn the MH, and possibly dispose of bodies, unless, they were disposed of, somewhere between minnow lake & Edmonton, if infact Vader was brought to the city in the SUV. or even the MH for that fact. Did the LE ask if Vader was driving the MH when he came to her place? all we know, is that they asked if Vader was driving the SUV. Another question, how did Vader get back to Niton, thus my opinion, that there is a 3rd person involved somehow, Maybe this is where girlfriend comes in, and brings Vader back to Niton. This also giving Vader more of an alibi, that he was not only in Edmonton, the time the MH was set on fire, but also in Niton, the time SUV was seen in PG for 4 days. Then we have Vader driving the SUV around Niton/peers, just after the official report of the SUV being in PG, did he feel confident enough, that they covered their tracks, and his alibi's were solid enough, for him to suddenly start driving the SUV. He took many vehicles, so changing out plates, would have been nothing for him.

The other thing that bothers me, is one of the reports I read, about the search of the property with the pond, was that one of the neighbors made a comment, that " they are too late, there was someone here, the past few days moving things out". ( I need to go back, and find this report again, but I wonder who was moving things, and if the neighbor got a good look at who it was, or if the LE could get him to do a composite sketch if he did see who it was.
Those are my thoughts for now, any comments would be much appreciated..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 02, 2010, 10:07:25 PM
thought i was doing pretty good on keeping up..Didnt hear about a neighbour saying to late..The people on that RR120 property were renters..They moved out???What ever they found and put in that black bag wasnt mccanns anyhow or anything to do with them...I was so hoping they would of found something there. The owner of this property was a friend of vaders but the relationship ended long ago..So the police seemed to be searching all of vaders friends old and new or any areas he was at alot....Did i hear right that vader and his family had been at chiplake fishing not long before what happened to mccanns...?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 12:50:43 AM
The information saying that the property search refered to involving an RCMP dive team, came from the websleuths website, someone saying people had been there all the previous week removing things.

Vader and family were reported being seen ice fishing on chip lake I believe the winter before.

Edsonmom- good look at the events in the 4th to 13th time frame.. Once again it amost seems someone deliberately wanted to attract attention to themselves and to that vehicle while it was over in PG.

re:
Quote
Then we have Vader driving the SUV around Niton/peers, just after the official report of the SUV being in PG, did he feel confident enough, that they covered their tracks, and his alibi's were solid enough, for him to suddenly start driving the SUV. He took many vehicles, so changing out plates, would have been nothing for him

You have a huge public hunt going on for one specific vehicle, a vehicle involved in and linking whoever had it to murder. This is so strange it defies any ordinary explanation. Why make the effort to put an alibi in place for earlier events, then drive around flaunting the vehicle that is a subject of a major search with implications of murder?

Then just like that, Vader is named a poi and the the suv is found parked back near the highway exit to minnow lake where it all began two weeks earlier.

There is no simple theory to explain this type of thing. Obviously others are involved, but of which stripe and why?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 11:07:14 AM
D1 here is the news report about "they are too late" . I knew I saw it in one of the news reports, but just had to find it.. Notice it states, that "
One neighbour said someone's been hauling stuff off the property ever since Vader was arrested."
This is what I was reffering to, in my earlier post..

Quote
Neighbours say a family lives on half of the quarter-section, south of Highway 16, and the other half is unoccupied. The registered landowner of the unoccupied portion hasn't been there for well over a year. Neighbours say the owner and Travis Edward Vader, the only named suspect in the case, were once friends. Vader is from the area.

The land, which was recently put up for sale, has a few trees, a pond and an old shack without electricity or running water.

One neighbour said someone's been hauling stuff off the property ever since Vader was arrested.

When told that RCMP are searching the property, the neighbour said: "They're too late."



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/RCMP+search+rural+property+McCann+missing+persons+case+Photos+video/3511838/story.html#ixzz174LhBWYn (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/RCMP+search+rural+property+McCann+missing+persons+case+Photos+video/3511838/story.html#ixzz174LhBWYn)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 03, 2010, 11:08:06 AM
When someone gets too hot, too irratic, too anything, in organized crime, they pretty much might as well dig themselves a hole  They either get done in, or get set up to get done in,  or sent in to get done in, one way or the other.  Wonder if this is the case in TV's case, except he is still in the remand center.  Probably a healthy place for him to stay, if this has anything to do with organized crime, he will know away too much.     
The information saying that the property search refered to involving an RCMP dive team, came from the websleuths website, someone saying people had been there all the previous week removing things.

Vader and family were reported being seen ice fishing on chip lake I believe the winter before.

Edsonmom- good look at the events in the 4th to 13th time frame.. Once again it amost seems someone deliberately wanted to attract attention to themselves and to that vehicle while it was over in PG.

re:
Quote
Then we have Vader driving the SUV around Niton/peers, just after the official report of the SUV being in PG, did he feel confident enough, that they covered their tracks, and his alibi's were solid enough, for him to suddenly start driving the SUV. He took many vehicles, so changing out plates, would have been nothing for him

You have a huge public hunt going on for one specific vehicle, a vehicle involved in and linking whoever had it to murder. This is so strange it defies any ordinary explanation. Why make the effort to put an alibi in place for earlier events, then drive around flaunting the vehicle that is a subject of a major search with implications of murder?

Then just like that, Vader is named a poi and the the suv is found parked back near the highway exit to minnow lake where it all began two weeks earlier.

There is no simple theory to explain this type of thing. Obviously others are involved, but of which stripe and why?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 03, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
Edsonmom,  I sure hope the LE followed up with that neighbour, as to who they saw and what they saw. 
D1 here is the news report about "they are too late" . I knew I saw it in one of the news reports, but just had to find it.. Notice it states, that "
One neighbour said someone's been hauling stuff off the property ever since Vader was arrested."
This is what I was reffering to, in my earlier post..

Quote
Neighbours say a family lives on half of the quarter-section, south of Highway 16, and the other half is unoccupied. The registered landowner of the unoccupied portion hasn't been there for well over a year. Neighbours say the owner and Travis Edward Vader, the only named suspect in the case, were once friends. Vader is from the area.

The land, which was recently put up for sale, has a few trees, a pond and an old shack without electricity or running water.

One neighbour said someone's been hauling stuff off the property ever since Vader was arrested.

When told that RCMP are searching the property, the neighbour said: "They're too late."



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/RCMP+search+rural+property+McCann+missing+persons+case+Photos+video/3511838/story.html#ixzz174LhBWYn (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/RCMP+search+rural+property+McCann+missing+persons+case+Photos+video/3511838/story.html#ixzz174LhBWYn)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 11:18:39 AM
I agree Talents!! If this neighbor saw someone moving things off the property, after Vader was arrested, we need to know who the person/people are, who were moving stuff..and what they moved..This could be vital to this case..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 11:36:30 AM
This really bothers me, that the SUV, was in PG for 4 days. We know that the MH was burned on the 5th, and that the SUV was in PG from approx the 9th - the 13. This gives 4 days, that the SUV is unaccounted for.
MH & SUV were at minnow lake, the 4th & 5th, according to witness. But no one answered the door, and SUV was there, at each time the MH door was knocked on. I am starting to get this sick feeling, that (god forgive me for saying this) maybe the McCann's were dismembered while MH was at minnow lake, for those 2 days, thus being the reason the MH was torched. Would make for easy transport, in the SUV, and managable peices, for accomplice to dump, in route to, or while in PG.
 I really do not think the McCanns bodies will be found in the Mackay - Edson area's. Sad thing is, they can be any where between Edmonton & PG.
But then again, what was moved off the property after Vader was arrested..maybe bodies were at the property, and have since been moved to one of the locations, that RCMP have already searched & cleared..That would be a smart move on criminals part..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 12:45:15 PM
Quote
You have a huge public hunt going on for one specific vehicle, a vehicle involved in and linking whoever had it to murder. This is so strange it defies any ordinary explanation. Why make the effort to put an alibi in place for earlier events, then drive around flaunting the vehicle that is a subject of a major search with implications of murder?


D1, the only explanation, that I can come up with for this, is that, this is the reason the SUV was in PG for 4 days. To throw the investigation, into a different province. Maybe Vader & company, felt, that with the SUV being seen in PG for 4 days, no one would think twice about his driving a "new" SUV. after all, it could not be the one in question, as that SUV, is in PG area. So I feel, the reason, Vader was changed from POI to suspect, was with all of the reported sightings, this made him POI, but after forensics of SUV came back, they may have found finger print or DNA linking him as suspect. They are not going to charge him, as of yet, as they need more evidence than that, for a conviction of murder. right now, all he can be charged with, is theft over 5,000. Not proof of him hurting the McCanns has surfaced, as of yet, even though we all know, there is more to this than just theft over..Sad, but this is how our laws work..
Question, Does Vader have to be willing to give a lie detector test, or can the courts order it?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 03, 2010, 01:07:24 PM
I've had the gut feeling ever since this who mess got in the news about the SUV being spotted in Prince George and how it was being driven slowly, that it was the McCann's that where driving or at least Mr. McCann driving, maybe while the perp was resting.  Driving slowly so to attract attention.  I know that it doesn't add up, but it could be right.  When that SUV left the Minnow Lake Campground, it sounded like who ever was driving was in a hurray.  There is no telling who was aboard. 
The McCann's could have been tied up and gagged laying on the back seat and the floor for that matter, there is nothing to say that they where murdered in Alberta, I have thought from the beginning that they may have been harmed far away from where everyone is looking, and maybe even in Prince George, or somewhere near there. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 01:15:19 PM
That is where I disagree Talents.. I feel that the McCanns were murdered on the 3rd, or 4Th at the latest. They would not keep them alive for that long, and risk one or both escaping. The reason the SUV was being driven slow, was to prove that yes, the SUV is no longer in Alberta, and move the search into a different province. IMO.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 01:37:16 PM
I feel if the people in PG could see the license plate number, they could make out if 1 or 2 people in it..Driving that long distance to would have remains of beer, drugs ,hair, about anything after that long journey..BUT nothing was found in SUV they said of the Mccanns..Dont know if they found anything else..If they had found something  in the SUV tp proove vader was in it , could they arrest him then??? Him being in the SUV would prove he,s involved..BUT so far nothing but vader did say he is good at hiding his tracks..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
Backing up a bit, I doubt dismemberment was going on, too much trouble to do, that still has to be disposed of, and scattering remains increases the chances of something being found. Thats more a big city thing where hiding spots aren't as readily available. Torching doesn't hide the remnants any better than a complete body. In water in a lake? I don't know?

re: the PG sightings..
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D1, the only explanation, that I can come up with for this, is that, this is the reason the SUV was in PG for 4 days. To throw the investigation, into a different province. Maybe Vader & company, felt, that with the SUV being seen in PG for 4 days, no one would think twice about his driving a "new" SUV. after all, it could not be the one in question, as that SUV, is in PG area.

The reason that won't hold up is the location where the motorhome was torched. The suv was connected to that and to that location. No matter what went on in PG it won't deflect suspicion away from this area.

If Vader was really seen driving that suv in this area after PG, It is deliberate and intentional to draw the heat to Vader. Vader is in on it, not an innocent duped party. He would know at that time that he was being set up and was party to it.

The suv was left untorched, unusual for what it was involved in and where it may lead. It is unlikely that it was parked on rr #144 for long given the choppers and search parameters. I look at this as deliberate and intentional act also, including whatever was left as evidence within the suv as being planted for a purpose.

The police had been discounting and almost refusing to take reports of sightings from the PG area. We have to question what else is being swept under the rug, even the Chip Lake sighting on July 4th/ a motorhome, apparently with suv detached. Same day Vader shows up in Edmonton..

We are operating from a very compromised point of view, very little detail released and what little there is, is suspect.

I would not wish this on anyone, its a terrible situation.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 02:24:09 PM
Mindy, I just reread the story on the SUV being spotted in PG, and Mr. Bjorklund states that there were 2 people in the SUV.

Quote
Evert Bjorklund and his daughter thought they saw the McCanns's Tucson last Thursday in Prince George. Bjorklund said the SUV was driving on Ospika Boulevard, a major road that cuts north to south through the city.

The vehicle caught his attention because it was travelling about 10 km/h below the speed limit.

"I've never seen anyone from Alberta drive this slow," Bjorklund said.

He looked at the plates, and thought nothing more of it until Monday night. Bjorklund was watching the news and a story came on about the McCanns. It included the description of their vehicle and the licence plate. Bjorklund was sure it was the same vehicle he saw.


He said there were two people in the SUV, but he didn't get a good look at them.
http://www.canada.com/news/Daughter+frantic+when+parents+shows+airport/3283473/story.html (http://www.canada.com/news/Daughter+frantic+when+parents+shows+airport/3283473/story.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 02:35:35 PM
Mmm..good to know..Wish we knew the milege on the SUV drom leaving st.albert..That would 100% say how far it traveled..The SUV was prob used besides a tow vehicle but Im sure lyle had it serviced somewhere before july 3rd. Bret should know but who knows..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 02:48:57 PM
D1, I pray you are right about the dismemberment thing, however I will remind you, that this is not just a big city thing, as if you remember my post near the beginning of the new thread, I mentioned about the Hells angels in Edson, & legal secretary, who spent 1 day in her basement, dismembering a man, they had killed. His body, after being chopped up, was removed from the home, in a large hockey bag, that was purchased at the local sporting good store, just for that purpose. If Vader is in fact, involved in an organized crime ring, anything is possible..

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The reason that won't hold up is the location where the motorhome was torched. The SUV was connected to that and to that location. No matter what went on in PG it won't deflect suspicion away from this area.

If Vader was really seen driving that SUV in this area after PG, It is deliberate and intentional to draw the heat to Vader. Vader is in on it, not an innocent duped party. He would know at that time that he was being set up and was party to it.

The SUV was left untorched, unusual for what it was involved in and where it may lead. It is unlikely that it was parked on rr #144 for long given the choppers and search parameters. I look at this as deliberate and intentional act also, including whatever was left as evidence within the SUV as being planted for a purpose.

The police had been discounting and almost refusing to take reports of sightings from the PG area. We have to question what else is being swept under the rug, even the Chip Lake sighting on July 4Th/ a motorhome, apparently with SUV detached. Same day Vader shows up in Edmonton..

We are operating from a very compromised point of view, very little detail released and what little there is, is suspect.

I would not wish this on anyone,

I agree with your statement, looking at it through our eyes, this is what, we know to be true. But lets take a moment, to look at it from a drugged up, criminals mind, who thinks he is a pro, at adverting the law. Maybe this is how he has slipped from him them in the past, making them think he, or the vehicle he had at the time, were in different places. If it worked for him, in the past, why not now.

Sorry if I am frustrating you, I am just trying to look at this from a criminals point of view, for a while, as we are getting no where, looking at it from, our point of view. ;)


I agree, No one should have to go through this. My heart breaks for the McCann family & friends, every time, I read something on this case. I know how helpless we all feel, I can not imagine, what the McCanns are going through. And now, when they talk about Lyle & Marie, everything is in past tense, so they know in their hearts, that their parents are gone. How do you move on, with no answers, & no bodies.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 02:53:20 PM
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Mmm..good to know..Wish we knew the milege on the SUV drom leaving st.albert..That would 100% say how far it traveled..The SUV was prob used besides a tow vehicle but Im sure lyle had it serviced somewhere before july 3rd. Bret should know but who knows..

 Good point Mindy, I hope they checked that out. I also wonder if it had a GPS tracking system in it, Lyle & Marie travelled so much, it may be possible. If so, maybe he pre-programed their trip into it. This would give LE an idea of the exact route they had planned to take.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 03:14:07 PM
Watch the first video on the right. Does he say it looked like two old people, that are not healthy??

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/bc_tipsters_found_100715/20100715?hub=BritishColumbiaHome (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/bc_tipsters_found_100715/20100715?hub=BritishColumbiaHome)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 03:39:02 PM
I have never seen that video before and it made me cry. cry out in prayer too. CRAPPIN STUPID RETARDED PERPS..Im so peeved right now..Did i hear right that that man said old and not healthy???? in the suv???? What the heck...Were the mccanns driving that SUV????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 03:55:42 PM
Okay, so I am not just imagining things, because that is what I heard as well..
What the hell, we have one report with him saying 2 people in SUV, but could not see them, then we have second video report, that says in his own words, "2 old people not healthy".. Which one is it??

Nothing makes sence anymore.. Rv burt in Edson, SUV spotted in PG with possible McCanns driving it, then SUV found in Edson.. Nothing adds up.  Unless Talents is right, and they were still alive, when the SUV was moved out of Edson. Myabe they were being held hostage, and killed in different location.. OMG I am more confused now, than ever..

but then again, how would he be able to tell, that they were not in good health, where they beaten, visable marks on them, that one could see driving past them. If this is the case, who does Vader know in PG? If the McCanns were with perp in PG, then they had to stay some where right, after all, the SUV was in PG for 4 days..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 04:05:42 PM
Remember that post from Belle I think it was, long ways back, arson at PG crack houses!

More what the f%$ moments!
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What the hell, we have one report with him saying 2 people in SUV, but could not see them, then we have second video report, that says in his own words, "2 old people not healthy".. Which one is it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
dont know how long SUV would of been in PG..BUT why take them there??? They didnt need the mccanns. If mccanns in SUV, where were the perps??? I need to watch that video again but going to cry again...UGH!!!!  If this is all true then mccanns anywhere from PG to carrot creek...Minnowlake is where burnt MH found.. Carrot creek where SUV found but close to minnowlake still...They took lyle and marie on a torture ride???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 04:12:21 PM
funny D1.....fires at crack houses.? why would anyone do that??? Doubt vader with suv in PG tho..Just those 2 dumb perps.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 04:16:08 PM
Le in PG have confirmed that SUV was in PG for 4 days at least..Perp could have been under blanket, in back seat, holding gun on one of them.. We know Vader was not in PG, as he was at sisters in Edmonton, but most of these druggies in Edson area, have same connections, so I am sure Vader would know the person they stayed with in PG..If this is the case, that the McCanns were in PG with SUV.

I can't see Lyle, willingly drive to PG, after they had been attacked, and MH burned. He would go straight to police, not carry on with trip, and not inform family of what happened, so if witness did infact see Lyle & Marie in the SUV, then they were there, not by their own choice..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 03, 2010, 04:27:49 PM
Hi you hard working sleuths;  I don't want to butt in here on your month of hard work and headaches while I was away, and I won't!  I know I am too far behind on all my pet threads to get caught up.  So I just keep browsing and reading them now.  I just want to add this one point of consideration.  Maybe there is a clear answer; I don't know as I have not reread all the last month's posts; but it bothers me that people keep saying that Vader was with his sister on whatever days etc. etc. 

My question is: is that actually a proven fact.  Back when I left here for a month (due to needing a new pc system) I was still of the decided opinion that Vader's sister was doing what sister's do best - covering for her brother in a "most serious" time of needing her to.  just my opinion folks..... as I said, perhaps that alibi has been proven to be credible information.  I just haven't seen it yet.

Carry on  :D ... again my apologies for interfering here.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 04:33:33 PM
Not interfering Lost, an even more valid point now!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 04:38:03 PM
I agree, You are in no way interfering, and have made a valid point, in which I think we all need to re think here.. Thanks & welcome back ;D
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 04:47:36 PM
yes. good point lost. nothing to prove he was there but do police have that proof. Doubt it either..Picking the 3rd or 4th on saying vader at sisters anyone could make up. Did police ask her neighbours??? This PG thing is really confusing me too..Just because people SAID they saw SUV dont mean nothing. I could say I saw it here too knowing license number already. What is so wierd is PG siting, 2 people, minnowlake 2 people,, chiplake 2people..What would benifit 2 retards into taking 2 old people on a long trip?? AND Police say mccanns WERENT in the SUV..Would be major evidence like if they hadnt let lyle or marie go to the bathroom..This man doing interview sounds old too unless voice covered up. whats with the old people only seeing this or that .
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 03, 2010, 04:55:22 PM
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AND Police say mccanns WERENT in the SUV..

I have no idea how police can say with any certainty that the McCann's were not in the SUV. As it was their vehicle I'm sure there would have been plenty of proof that they had been in it at some point, question is WHEN and they cannot answer that in my opinion. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 05:14:05 PM
somehow the police just know..They know it was their vehicle and would have tell signs of other things but would of looked for other stuff pretaining to blood or whatever and if back seat was used too or even trunk part that are in SUV,s...Im sure there was lots of fingure prints in SUV but were there diff ones of perps??Maybe they got prints but these perps have no record....Just one would of solved this case..Thats why it makes me wonder if they used gloves and maybe blankets on seats to cover their butts....How can people say they saw SUV in victoria and ontario...PG to victoria then ontario??Like come on...Well maybe mccanns could of been in SUV with no injuries and on the way to PG got dumped over a cliff into water.. So far people being dumped in water or showing up in water..I guess here we have to kinda think out of the box..Just because Mh and SUV were in carrot creek area doesnt mean mccanns are in the area..check vaders friends list on facebook of where they live..Im blanked out now with what this old man said. didnt sound like voice over.Daughter must be older too. This man sounded about 70 or so.....The police have alot more than us and they cant crack this case?? so much more to go on than the other missing old people too..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 03, 2010, 05:36:58 PM

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They know it was their vehicle and would have tell signs of other things but would of looked for other stuff pretaining to blood or whatever and if back seat was used too or even trunk part that are in SUV,s...

That to me would only prove that they were not injured/killed in the SUV. There is nothing saying that the McCann's were not transported in the SUV.

As far as the SUV being reported in Victoria and Ontario goes, I can only say, to me, very unlikely. Many times when a vehicle/person goes missing there are tips that come in from around the country. Many turn out to be false.

At this point I am not even sure about PG. It does not make sense to me that anyone would want to drag two elderly people that they had just kidnapped, that far, or for that length of time. My thinking on that could change however, if we could find some reason that Vader needed to keep them alive, possibly somehow connected to him going to PG.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 05:55:15 PM
Another thing that came to mind..If perps had the SUV and went to PG, driving around for days,,,HOW MUCH FUEL WAS IN THE SUV AND HOW DID THEY GET MORE NOT USING THE MCCANNS CARDS??????Im so sure the distance to PG and driving around would of ate up the fuel..IF, and IF SUV was there..Or been driven around. ANOTHER THING: How much fuel was in the SUV WHEN FOUND...??? EMPTY?????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 03, 2010, 08:27:27 PM
A news report just now on CTV News, Vancouver, is that Prince George is now being called Colombia-North because of the gang and criminal activities there.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 03, 2010, 08:35:12 PM
I agree with lost - we don't know how credible the sister's alibi is.  The whole family seems a little "whacky".

I was also thinking along the same lines as 24mindy about the gas.  I have a very similar vehicle and it costs about $60 to fill-up and I get about 600 kilometres per tank full.  Where would Vader get money to spend on such frivolities such as gasoline?  And I'd like to think the Police have checked video surveillance of gas stations along route - just like the one they have of Lyle getting gas in St. Albert.  Obviously Vader's not swift, but he was on the run.... I doubt he would have stopped to refuel.  He probably dumped the SUV when fuel was low - joy ride was over.

I believe redbeard had profiled the perpetrator as being unsophisticated and familiar with the area.  If we eliminate the "supposed side trip to Edmonton" then Vader becomes the perfect suspect.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
anyone that pulls off what they did to the mccanns is very unsuphisicated(spelled wrong .lol).. What we would like to know the cops only know .wonder if they even asked about gas in suv etc to bret and family...I bet if WE ALL quizzed bret we and bret would get answers...Seeing trudy in that video really got to me the rest of the day..Holding back tears...Was just to much for me to see right now.Have seen her before upset but not like this...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 08:55:47 PM
cchecked vader friends etc. very interesting..
One of elizabeth brooks friends: scott lowe.A real nut case. drunk. young guy.780-712-6535.......ALAN ROLLING:FROM WEIMER TEXAS
AMBER WILLIAMS FROM WHITECOURT ALBERTA
ANGELA ROSE WOLLMAN FROM KELOWNA..SHE LEAVES A NOTE ON HER WALL:LOVE YOU TRAV..DONT WORRY...SAYS NOTHING MORE FROM PRESENT TO BACK TO JUNE..
VADER HAS FRIEND IN CAMROSE ALBERTA,CANMORE ALBERTA
DERECK MURPHY: CALGARY..WORKED IN THE OIL PATCH FOR ALMOST 16 YEARS
FRIENDS FROM EDMONTON
FRIEND IN LEDUC ALBERTA WORKING (SAVANN DRILLING )A
LISA HOOPER:PRINCEGEORGE BC
MITCH VADER : EDMONTON
PEDRO HERNANDEZ:GRANDPRAIRIE ALBERTA: M SWACO OF CANADA SR. DRILLING FLUIDS SUP.
RODNEY HINZE: WEIMAR TEXAS
SCOT LOWEN: SELF EMPLOYED,  CONSULTANT,CONTRACTED TO ENCANA OIL AND GAS..(LYLE HAULED GAS TOO.)
TAMA WATT: DID LIVE IN EDSON...
TINA WICKS: WEIMAR TEXAS......
      iNTERESTING HUH??????????...

hecked out vaders friends on facebook and stuff when i could. look careful at where some live and where they work or worked..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 09:05:12 PM
Travis worked for Encana as a contractor, at one time as well..Interesting..
Lisa Hooper in PG!!! interesting..
ANGELA ROSE WOLLMAN has a son named Travis, so we can not read too much into that..

As for the gas thing, it brings me back to ask, what possesions Lyle & Marie may have had with them, that could have been poned off..I really hope this was looked into.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 09:12:50 PM
Travis worked for encana huh..well, well..ya and the person from princegeorge..check out her friends and  see how many are from PG too or in the niton, edmonton area...The one from kelowna is asked to move back to alberta. any messages to the person that had message for travis would of been private..kelowna is close to summerland..uncanny how he has a friend from PG..just looked. she has her friend list private..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 09:26:34 PM
D1 disappeared and redbeard..Must be on a mission...Someone really needs to go up there actually from here with a good 4x4....keep in contact with us at what they think..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 03, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
I personally find it hard to believe Vader and Co. didn't help themselves to various pricy items before burning the camper.  They could get good money for things like cameras, scanners, phone, jewellery, television and or DVD player, movies, butane or gas camp stove for use in the woods or when not on hookup grounds... who knows what all they had?!!  My point is; I hope the police or even better, the Mc Cann's family checked all the pawn shops along the way.
I realize they used an excellerent to make everything melt down, but you would expect to find some sort of unburnable scraps there.  Maybe these perps store old run down campers, trucks, cars, etc;  and when they come across one in mint condition, they take it from whoever owns it, switch the serial number plate and license plates... then burn the "wrecked one" and sell the good one for a handsome profit.

  Did the police check to see if the SUV just had an oil change etc. before setting out for the trip? - I do that! - and my service station puts the milage showing at the time, in their computer system.  ...I would expect that same with the Motor Home.  The same is done when tires are changed and/or checked - the service outlets keep a record.

I too, believe the police know plenty - like how much gas was used up in the SUV when they found it.  /whether these vehicles were in for repairs and/or before-trip check-up - especially the SUV - it's probably still under warranty.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 09:53:07 PM
That has been my thought for a while Lost.. I sent a tip to the McCann site, as well as their FB page about a month or so ago, asking if they had a list of the normal things Lyle & Marie would have in the MH, that would be with them, even things such as jewelry that Marie would wear regularly, TV, DVD player, camera, things like that, and if such list was ever given to LE to send out to pond shops..
I really hope this has been done, as there is no way, druggies would walk away from that op pertunity..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 03, 2010, 10:02:10 PM
Right Edson;  and these guys would also take any meds the couple had also.  I hope they checked every garbage bag that these pieces of garbage put out on the roadside.  .... :oOh Wait... Silly Me.  The authorities goofed that all up... Id forgotten!  It was days before they even treated it as serious.  Even crack heads would have had enough time to go back and forth and cover their bad deeds.  .... things they slipped up on at first.  Yes they sure had plenty of head start.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 03, 2010, 10:12:21 PM
That is right, I did not even think about any meds they may have had. I wonder if any they may have had, had any refills on them, and if so, were they refilled since the McCanns went missing..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 03, 2010, 10:18:27 PM
I think the McCann SUV would be full of gasoline.  Last summer there was quite a difference in the price of gas in Alberta, compared to BC.  Up to 10c a L.  Also, why would the McCanns tow their SUV half-full when it costs no more to tow their SUV full?  And, if they had MH problems, they still had their SUV to use.  I don't know about Alberta pawnshops, but a few years ago I knew a family who owned a BC pawnshop.  There was a video recorder going all day, every day, and every video tape kept for quite awhile, in case of a court case over stolen items.  Also, all items were kept in a backroom for 2 months before they were put out for sale.  I don't know if all BC pawnshops are like this, or Alberta pawnshops.  I would guess alot of these thieves would know a 'fence' who buys stolen items, for pennies on the dollar, and they would not go to pawn shops very often if all transactions are visually recorded.  As for the McCann SUV being spotted in Prince George, the perps could have made a dope run up to PG.  Lots of hard drugs and organized crime in PG.  BC Bud being exchanged for cocaine, ....  In exchange for some fuel cost, the perps could make a dope run to PG for big rewards.  I am sure they have, but I hope LE carefully checked the soil and mud deposits on the SUV.  Is dope being brought into Alberta from PG via Jasper, to Edmonton? Being a trucker for so long, I bet Mr. McCann kept careful logs of his vehicles.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 10:41:50 PM
PG is Columbia North! The hub city for criminal activity up BC northern corridor. I believe Edmonton can hold its own in that regard too.

The PG sightings are still unconfirmed but they seem to still be a viable possibility. In my notes I did remark that those sightings came in with others from all over at the same time and these kind of got lost in the mix. One thought was that there are likely to be plenty of other seniors driving a vehicle like this and some may just drive that slow. Neither the RCMP nor the MCCaan's who obviously heard of those sightings initiated much if any a search near PG. If Lyle was driving after all that time and he was right in PG, I'd say he'd crash the vehicle into something public and visible even a passsing Police car..

I have to go with Deb for now unless more comes up, did the people seeing that event record the licence # on the vehicle with the seniors on board? The other sightings don't seem to have occupant descriptions.

Quote
As far as the SUV being reported in Victoria and Ontario goes, I can only say, to me, very unlikely. Many times when a vehicle/person goes missing there are tips that come in from around the country. Many turn out to be false.

At this point I am not even sure about PG. It does not make sense to me that anyone would want to drag two elderly people that they had just kidnapped, that far, or for that length of time. My thinking on that could change however, if we could find some reason that Vader needed to keep them alive, possibly somehow connected to him going to PG.

Whether sis and stepmom would out and out lie for Vader in a circumstance like this? Family is a personal thing, some might lie, some would lie, most I think upon reflection wouldn't. The Vader family? There would likely be phone records, emails, neighbors, visitors etc that could all go to confirming what sis is saying. She should be hung out to dry if she is lying.

So it's back to the alibi for Vader if and if he was in on the PG thing, and who else could be involved in this? Split up the actions into two seperate things and Vader's sis could still be telling the truth. (somewhat)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 11:12:06 PM
Without the PG sightings, we have one day of confirmed sightings for the suv after the third. The campground 6 a.m. 5th/ till early afternoon of the 5th. Otherwise, nothing really confirmed. The suv is missing the same time as Vader's disappearance, reappearing in reports which include Vader. Then the suv is found right near where Vader is seen in the store video and near where he had been reported seen with suv and two others at the Peer's dope dealers house. . oops sorry banana, pssst..u still in business?

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 03, 2010, 11:24:33 PM

Billie-Joe Vader, the sister, is STUPID.  She should take the $60,000 reward money and skedaddle.  If SHE had an conscience at all, she would stop protecting Travis and tell the truth - with or without a REWARD.  But, hey - she seems dumb, looks dumb, looks like she could use the money - why not rat out her brother.  $60,000 is a lot better then a cot in a 4x8 cell where she's going to go when they discovered she lied.

Take the 60 grand BJ Vader!  Plus other little bits from Crimestoppers, etc. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 03, 2010, 11:42:39 PM
D1 and mom. you are so funny.. I hope the perps see this and the vaders.Well BV anyhow.. Vaders sister took quite a chance actually lieing IF she did..You get caught lieing about this your up stream without a paddle..Hope vaders sister realizes this is not a picnic. 2 people gone. A family in so much pain its unbearable..Lyle and marie missing out christmas....I wish their was a way to send the mccanns christmas cards...I know they,d get alot but if me I would love it...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 03, 2010, 11:46:16 PM
Agree she don't look that bright, but maybe just skin deep, the book by the cover thing etc... She did say things not really to Travis's benefit, running around in the bush all night, tired from running from the cops etc..

But she may be telling the truth as she knows it in her own mind. Maybe Vader bluffed her for his abscences, there is a stepmon there too, and who knows who else stopped by, various records etc.. seems Travis and co. could be caught in a lie quite easily if not true to some degree. Big chance for someone not all that bright and then to get away with it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 03, 2010, 11:51:14 PM
Edsonmom, Thank you for positng this, I had never seen this before, this is amazing, and confusing... there is so much we do not know.  I'd like to jump right into that remand center and squeeze the livin' shit right out of TV, he must know something and damn him for not telling.   Damn him, damn him.   
Watch the first video on the right. Does he say it looked like two old people, that are not healthy??

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/bc_tipsters_found_100715/20100715?hub=BritishColumbiaHome (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100715/bc_tipsters_found_100715/20100715?hub=BritishColumbiaHome)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 03, 2010, 11:54:08 PM
I agree whole heartedly, it is not proven that he was anywhere near Edmonton. 
Hi you hard working sleuths;  I don't want to butt in here on your month of hard work and headaches while I was away, and I won't!  I know I am too far behind on all my pet threads to get caught up.  So I just keep browsing and reading them now.  I just want to add this one point of consideration.  Maybe there is a clear answer; I don't know as I have not reread all the last month's posts; but it bothers me that people keep saying that Vader was with his sister on whatever days etc. etc. 

My question is: is that actually a proven fact.  Back when I left here for a month (due to needing a new pc system) I was still of the decided opinion that Vader's sister was doing what sister's do best - covering for her brother in a "most serious" time of needing her to.  just my opinion folks..... as I said, perhaps that alibi has been proven to be credible information.  I just haven't seen it yet.

Carry on  :D ... again my apologies for interfering here.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 03, 2010, 11:58:13 PM
Agree she don't look that bright, but maybe just skin deep, the book by the cover thing etc... She did say things not really to Travis's benefit, running around in the bush all night, tired from running from the cops etc..

But she may be telling the truth as she knows it in her own mind. Maybe Vader bluffed her for his abscences, there is a stepmon there too, and who knows who else stopped by, various records etc.. seems Travis and co. could be caught in a lie quite easily if not true to some degree. Big chance for someone not all that bright and then to get away with it??


I agree with D1's statement here. Bobby Jo may be telling the truth as she knows it in her own mind. I believe that people like Vader do not trust many outside of their own circle of thugs. They know not to talk and that will include family. In my opinion she likely knows exactly what he wants her to know.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 04, 2010, 12:00:27 AM
Right on, the SUV belonged to the McCann's and there would definitely be all kinds of their hair, finger prints, etc..., but what they police would have been looking for in the SUV aside from other's DNA, finger prints, hair.... etc..., was most likely any blood from either Lyle or Marie.   They could have very well been in that SUV in Prince George and could very well have been taken to that crack house and could very well have parished in that fire or any number of things, aside from some more hopeful thoughts.  I do realize there is no kidnapping notes or requests for monies that we know of, but it really makes me wonder.  Very, very odd. 
Quote
AND Police say mccanns WERENT in the SUV..

I have no idea how police can say with any certainty that the McCann's were not in the SUV. As it was their vehicle I'm sure there would have been plenty of proof that they had been in it at some point, question is WHEN and they cannot answer that in my opinion. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 12:12:16 AM
so far the police seem to beleive her ...Im sure vaders family is visiting him but he has to allow it and i wonder if his sister is one of them...I still wonder what made those perps think that there was only old people in that MH..Hulk hogan could of been with them for all they knew..The mccanns must of been stopped, watched and then the perps knew it would be a breeze to take it over..What if the mccanns granddaughter was on board the MH,What would of happened then...Lyle didnt even have a chance to dial 911..This case just shows that anything can happen on the road and now I would figure older people and all people need to have some defense device..These perps will hit another time. Its so easy for them. They got away with it..Once vader is out things will get pretty erie around that area...I feel bad for everyone...vader will prob get 3-5 yrs..BUT he will get less a day so he will be out sooner. If he hasnt be sentenced yet he will get less time. Time served already. Plus they really need to have proof of fires too..And they cannot even think of the mccann case and that he is a suspect. that is a whole other case and matter crown cannot even bring up. Hard not to judge him on it while sentencing tho. Im sure they will all feel anger towards vader in court so it would be by video most likely than in person...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 12:17:25 AM
wow talent ..good for u. Id want to say more..Good u vented. Im wondering if vader has access to a comp in jail. maybe he can read all of this.. Let the women at vader and he will talk...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2010, 01:43:00 AM
It should be easy enough for Vader and sis, etc to prove he was there in Edmonton if he was, after all it is this alibi he wishes to use in his defence. Maybe someone should just ask?

If the suv was actually in PG, nothing says Vader was with it then. These two things are separable, there were more than one person involved.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 04, 2010, 06:33:03 AM
Vader's sister did say he showed up tired and hungry on the 4th.   As far as I know she didn't confirm what vehicle he drove or got dropped off in.   I thought she avoided the reporter's question.  But the police, I think, know the answer.

Vader's sister never said what he did while he was at her house...I would venture to say he wasn't even there most of the time.  Just came in to eat and sleep.  Which gave him plenty of time to go back and forth to the Niton Junction area, any day he wanted.  Yes, I think he used her for an alibi....but I'll bet he wasn't with her most of the time.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2010, 09:57:18 AM
Agree with you jobo, if Vader had a ride or some means of transportation, he could easily pull off day trips without sis and stepmom being any the wiser. A four day trip off to PG would be hard to cover though. Perhaps someone dropped Vader off at his sisters then went off to PG without him if the sightings are correct?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 04, 2010, 10:32:31 AM

to TalentsUnlimited:  In regards to the Facebook friends list.  There are many variables when it comes to a person's friends' list - typically, the "friendship" is solidified when both parties (i.e. the second person) consent to the friendship.  For instance, I could send you a friend request in February and you may agree to it in July - it is then in July that you would appear on my friend list... even if I haven't logged into my Facebook account since April.  Hope that doesn't sound confusing.  Bottomline - some Facebook users only breeze through their accounts very infrequently, while others live on it.

Secondly, Facebook has multiple "servers" all over the world - with most of them being here in North America.  On a regular basis (probably for system maintenance - backups, etc) Facebook takes servers off-line.  Unbeknownst to the user, they are actually working on a "cache" of their profile, which would not be current.  For the rest of us, when that server is down, we don't see our friends that are hosted from the off-line server.

I have a friend in New York City and without fail.... every morning I receive about 10 posts from her account, throughout the past 12 hour period.  However, throughout the day, I receive her posts in "real time".  I have another friend in California and the opposite thing happens.

Anyway... if I were you, I wouldn't lose any sleep over counting your friends until their server hatches.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 02:49:15 PM
either way mom..vaders friends have proven very interesting regardless and one of them may hold a key....Vader isnt going to be on facebook  but will check this board if he has access to a comp..any of them could be contacting him somehow.....I hope we are aiming at the right guy..Good decoy away from real perps ..Look how everyone is so focused on vader...He may know of the crime but may not of done the killing..Vader may of taken off from town to edmonton to try to keep himself away from what was going down..To give himself a alliby...AND if he wasnt at his sisters then where was he all that time??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 04, 2010, 03:13:15 PM
I agree with you there, 24 mindy.    I have always thought that Vader was the 'helper'.    I guess we all focus on him, because that is all we know is a person of interest with the police.

 His 'buddy'(s) could have dropped him off @ sister's in Edmonton, on the 4th.  Then, they could've picked him up@ sister's on the 5th and went to Minnow Lk to burn the Motorhome....and returned back to Edmonton the same day.  'Buddy'(s) could have gone to PG,after that, and Vader could have hung out in Edmonton as sister says.  Like you say, 24mindy... "To try to keep himself away from what was going down".     
  I would love to know if she actually saw Vader all day on the 5th.  I doubt it.   Anyways, that is one possible scenerio.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 03:34:21 PM
With vader living in that area he must know what happened and maybe tried to get away from it but then police suspect he knows about what happened..WE know already that he knows something or the police wouldnt of made him a suspect. I cant remember what was going on when they decided to do this. Were the cops searching a acreage??? Did SUV come back from forensics and something was in it. ?They going by people seeing vader driving SUV IF thats true...Vader just happens to come back into town and takes SUV for a spin with a female said to be his girlfriend..If someone comes forward now for reward money its not going to look good..WHY did they wait so long. Threats???Thats their excuse...Anyone can leave a tip no one knowing but WON,T...I think who ever does know what happened is more scared now to send in what they know as its been so long..Its prob driving them nuts..AND I think its more a female than a male..Just a feeling...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 05:36:52 PM
 
Police hunt accused arsonist, find missing couple’s SUV
 
Warrants issued for man's arrest days before St. Albert couple disappeared
 
By Brent Wittmeier, Ben Gelinas, Elise Stolte and Hanneke Brooymans, edmontonjournal.com July 17, 2010
  StoryPhotos ( 17 )Video ( 1 )
ICON
 More Images »  Travis Edward Vader, aged 38.Photograph by: RCMP, edmontonjournal.comEDMONTON — An accused arsonist with a long list of weapons charges is a person of interest in the disappearance of a St. Albert couple whose motorhome was found burning earlier this month.

RCMP said Friday they want to speak to 38-year-old Travis Edward Vader about Lyle and Marie McCann.

The McCanns' burning motorhome was discovered July 5 near Minnow Lake campground southeast of Edson. The couple, in their 70s, is still missing and foul play is suspected, RCMP said.

"We suspect the worst and hope for the best," RCMP Assistant Commissioner Peter Hourihan said.

The McCanns' light green 2006 Hyundai Tucson, which the couple was towing behind their motorhome, was discovered Friday in the bush off a country road near Carrot Creek, about 30 kilometres east of Edson.

It was found by a man doing work on the property, RCMP spokesman Sgt. Patrick Webb said. "He was walking along and came upon it." The man said he recognized it from the media coverage of the disappearance and called RCMP immediately.

Vader's sister, Alicia, told The Vancouver Sun that she and the family have not heard from Vader and do not expect to.

"Our hearts go out to the McCann family and we hope these developments lead to finding them," she said. "We can only hope and pray that he is just a person of interest at this point and that the McCanns will be found safe."

Though the SUV has been found, the call remains for tips from anyone who may have seen the vehicle between July 3 and July 16.

Webb said while the couple's Tucson was located just 30 kilometres from the campground where their RV was set on fire 10 days earlier, their SUV could have been driven in any direction for days.

Police are warning the public not to approach Vader, whose criminal record in Alberta dates back to 1995 with 12 separate sets of charges, including several from the Edson area.

Recent charges include careless use of a firearm, possession of stolen property and arson, but details on any charges older than six months were not immediately available from court records.

Vader received many of his recent charges while out on bail.

The oldest charges with details available stem from an Aug. 29, 2009, incident near Evansburg. Vader faces 13 charges, including possession of a banned substance, possession of break and enter instruments, and careless use and storage of a firearm. He was released on bail.

Then on Dec. 8, 2009, he was arrested again, this time in the Barrhead area. Charges laid in that case included possession of stolen property, mischief, arson and disqualified driving.

The arson charge was for allegedly burning his own property in such a way that it threatened someone else or their property. Again, he received bail.

His next arrest came a month ago, on June 15, in Mayerthorpe. This time it was 10 charges, including possession of property obtained by crime, unauthorized possession of a firearm and careless use or storage of a firearm.

On June 21, he was supposed to appear in Evansburg Provincial Court for the August 2009 charges but never showed. The judge issued a warrant for his arrest.

Then on June 25 -- 10 days before the McCanns' motorhome was found -- Vader was supposed to be in Barrhead Provincial Court for the December 2009 charges. He failed to show up again and another warrant was issued.

Vader has also run into trouble with the law in British Columbia. B.C. court documents say Vader faced several charges in January 2009 in Fort Nelson, including unauthorized possession of a firearm, resisting or obstructing a peace officer and mischief of $5,000 or under.

Alberta's Fugitive Apprehension Service Team, an integrated unit that specializes in finding fugitives, had taken on the task of finding Vader long before he was a person of interest in the McCanns disappearance.

"They had gone to look for him, to apprehend him, but were unsuccessful," Webb said.

Roy Getson, who said he grew up west of Edmonton in Niton Junction with Vader, said Vader had a reputation in town for being a fighter.

"That was well known about him. If he got into a bar, he'd get into a fight."

Getson said he hasn't kept in touch with Vader since Vader moved to B.C. a few years ago, but instantly recognized him in the photo released by police Friday.

"It's kind of a shock," he said.

A woman who knows Vader said he is somewhat feared in the Niton Junction community.

The woman, who did not want to be named, said some believe Vader was involved in a fire that broke out on his property in the past.

She said he's an intelligent guy though somewhat unbalanced.

"He worked in the oilpatch and he had a very good job. But apparently he quit it," she said, adding she believes Vader has at least six children.

Vader has some friends in the area. "He's got a few friends around here. All shady characters, I would say, doing the same thing as him."

She said she didn't have any trouble with him personally. "I always got along good with him. I never had any problems with him. I didn't socialize with the guy. If I saw him I said hello and he said hello to me, kind of thing. But that's about as far as it went. I do know his family, though, too. They're very nice people and they're well respected in the area, with a lot of friends around here. It's just too bad they have a son like that. I know they don't allow him anywhere near their house because of the way he is and what he does, and they don't want to be involved with that, I guess. They're not anything like that."

Vader was not known to the McCann family.

"Nobody in my family recognizes the name or knows anybody in that area," the couple's son, Bret, said. "My parents never mentioned anybody by that name."

Bret said all sorts of scenarios are playing out in his head. "But I'm just focusing on the positive here, that these things are breaks in the case and they're getting us closer to finding my parents.

"I have a sense that everybody in Western Canada is aware of this."

The McCanns disappeared while on their way to a campground in Chilliwack, B.C., where they planned to meet their daughter. They were last seen at 9:25 a.m. July 3, when surveillance cameras captured them buying gas at the St. Albert Superstore Gas station. Their credit card hasn't been used since.

Two days later, on July 5, a driver saw smoke rising above the trees near the Minnow Lake campground southeast of Edson. When fire crews arrived, they found the motorhome engulfed in flames.

Investigators are now searching an expansive rural scene, searching for anything that may lead them to Vader and the McCanns.

On July 12, a log house, four outbuildings, two tractors and a truck, along with a pile of wood, were all set on fire on an acreage just north of Niton Junction. The fires were suspicious, and Webb said RCMP have been looking into whether they are related to this case.

Vader is described as six-foot-two, approximately 230 pounds, with hazel eyes. Police say he is a known drug user.

Vader's Facebook page identifies his hometown as Summerland, B.C., and his occupation as a self employed "drilling consultant."

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 06:02:46 PM
I would assume the MH was gas not diesel??? If gas, was it possible for the perps to get gas out of MH to put in SUV if it didnt have enough??? WAs the gas used from MH used to set it on fire...There had to of been some proof around the burn area of the perps..Its prob under the dirt now sqaushed by all the vehicles that were there burn night and after in search of that area. I would dig that all up with a fine tooth comb...from the road to Mh burnt out area..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 08:00:55 PM
Just some things that jumped out at me, that I wanted posted for future reference..This may be updated, as I read more.. ;)

Quote
Lyle owned and operated semis most of his working life, often driving from Edmonton into B.C. along Hwy 16, said his son.

He retired only five years ago.

“My dad loved driving. I went on trips with him,” he said. “For the last 10 years (of his career), he had this route to Prince Rupert and to Prince George. My dad just loved that. He knew the area well, and he’d talk when he came home that he saw this animal, this moose.”

Quote
“Both my parents were really with it, really aware and vigorous,” he said. “My dad has had some troubles the last few years with his heart, his prostate gland and his heart. You can see he was getting frailer, but he was very active.”
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/17/14746691.html (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/17/14746691.html)


Quote
That search wrapped up Wednesday.

"We have looked at everything there and we've taken everything of value out of there," Webb said.

"We don't know the value of items seized, but at the same time we have to access it now and see if there's anything that can help us along in the investigation."


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/15/14718471.html?cid=rssnewscanada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/15/14718471.html?cid=rssnewscanada)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 04, 2010, 08:03:54 PM
Prostrate problems would equate pulling over so early in the trip for a bathroom break
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 08:10:41 PM
okay, so the LE removed items of Value from the search area around the MH.. So what, if any thing did the perps take??? And was it on these items, that forensics match was made to Vader??

Quote
Quote
That search wrapped up Wednesday.

"We have looked at everything there and we've taken everything of value out of there," Webb said.

"We don't know the value of items seized, but at the same time we have to access it now and see if there's anything that can help us along in the investigation."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/15/14718471.html?cid=rssnewscanada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/15/14718471.html?cid=rssnewscanada)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
Some really important points have just been floated by for re consideration. That was good clipping EM..

The article from july 17th ish  Mindy posted a few back is well worth the read again now in hindsight.

There's a story forming out there somehow..

Even a "quasi" confirmation on why the McCaan's may have stopped near Niton helps..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 09:15:22 PM
Thanks D1!!

Looking at the pics below, of the burnt out MH, and reading the statement from LE, about removing items of value, I am thinking, that anything they found of value, may have been scattered in the bushes, that they searched near by, as if you look at the pics, nothing survived this fire..

Secondly, in the pic of the home Vader was arrested in, what is the building with the long chimney comming out of it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 10:22:06 PM
This is a video I have never seen before. Was taken while Trudy was still in Vancouver..So very sad.
First video on the right. "A womans search for her parents"  Brets Canada AM interview is also on this link, scroll down the videos on the right.

When you see the pics of where the MH was burnt, in the video's, it does not seem, like the ground under neith the burn, was dug up.. You can see where the tire tracks were pulled through.. If this was never checked, it needs to be..

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 10:29:21 PM
Okay. Im getting goose bumps now...lol...Found a carol lynn lucas mentioning on mccann page about waiting for RCMp to call.. what does she know...A jennifer jones also commented on mccann page saying the mccanns were such nice neighbours....things popping out that can be sought after..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 10:39:49 PM
edsonmom: is that a brick fireplace u are talking of on this building???does bulmers place have a long driveway ? I know it has steel like fencing..his house is very old isnt it??have u seen a blue vehicle on it? blueish?? maybe a old van??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 10:47:02 PM
good stuff edsonmom.....didnt know lyle had heart prob. read everything that ever came out and videos but with so much to see i guess i forgot...Need to know about bulmers place tho..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 10:55:57 PM
No Mindy, the long chimney comming out of that white building, in the pics I posted a bit ago.. Looks like a white cloth over the building..maybe a shed or something..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: solvy on December 04, 2010, 11:07:14 PM
Edsonmom- Looks like a portable garage with a wood heater in it to me or maybe a greenhouse setup to be used in early spring or late fall, with wood heat.   Also noted the bicycle leaning against the house  (alternate transportation?)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 11:31:38 PM
Thanks Solvy.. Maybe greenhouse used for Grow op??  I was thinking it was a wood heater.. wonder if the ashes in it were checked, or if it was recently emptied.. LOL Ya I noticed the bike as well..

Mindy here are the other pics from the property, looks like he has a fairly long driveway, but it seems to divide into 2, and the gate you mention, would be the gate in the first pic I posted for this property with the chiminey question..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 11:35:45 PM
theres that one pic not shown of burnt MH and its tracks but i agree edsonmom about the dirt but heard they checked that..So what would of been valueable out of a burnt MH?? Why would they mention not knowing the value..wierd...Well at least perps didnt try backing the MH in but it sure looks like they went off the road into this cutline quite fast slipping. thats the pic im looking for...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 04, 2010, 11:55:06 PM
I know the picture, that you are talking about Mindy.. Now that I am looking for it, I can not find it.. but it is in the video I posted.. wonder if we can freeze frame it..
I can't see how they dug through all of that dirt, They would have had to pull the MH out first, then dig it up, there would be no tire tracks through it..but in the pic we are looking for, there are tire tracks..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 04, 2010, 11:58:51 PM
you can tell if i remember right that there seemed to be just the MH tracks ..If police were wise they wouldnt of gone down the cutline to desturb that area and of gone behind from open field..Did they take these pics when they found it after next day? or just before they hauled it away..They said it wasnt suspicious of course as they would find quite a few burnt vehicles. I would guess some of vaders? Heard someone mention quite awhile back to check under MH. These perps were obviously not at first thinking of burning MH or they would of burnt it with mccanns inside..or could they of been wise enough to know bodies dont completely burn...Where ever the mccanns are is a crime scene.Where the Mh was burnt is a crime scene..SUV drop off a crime scene. Who are these idiots that they would create 3 crime scenes.. That whole area is a crime scene...From all directions for who knows how many miles....How far the SUV traveled holds a big key too and only a service area would know. Oil change, new tires, etc etc...Only bret would know..Another thing is if my dad had such bad health i would of been concerned of him driving any distance. Since lyle had a cell i would of made him keep it on. even would of called him that morning checking up...Interesting lyle had runs to PG...Where to?? Did he make enemies??.I doubt lyle would of survived this takeover the minute it happened knowing his heart condition as I do now....My gosh.. so sad...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 05, 2010, 12:04:55 AM
If you look back on Bret's Canada am video posted in the video link I posted on last page of thread, it is at the 3 min point of the video, and runs to the 304 point.. I can not seem to freeze it in time to get a still frame..
Here is the link again. it is the last video on the right..
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 12:05:53 AM
I have so much saved as u prob do. Its a still pic too...I heard when they decided to start over with search they dug the ground but who knows. they would of had to of been very careful in case mccanns there or anything else...The Mh was on a bit of a hill it looks like..Seems to be a unfinished cutline..I doubt the perps took the time to shovel a hole....The only tools on board were prob a axe...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 05, 2010, 12:19:25 AM
Yep I have tons saved on this as well..but for some reason, I do not have the pic we are talking about, in my pics, so I will have to go through news reports to find it..

Not an unfinished cutline, a old one, starting to grow over.. Many like that in that area..
I was the one who mentioned checking under the MH.. throwing around idea's..so much going through my brain on this case, that sometimes it is just better to throw something out there, and hear different opinions on it, to see if it fits with a theory.. Know what I mean..

 Does any one know the legalities, of the LE doing searches on public campground.. for example, the searches done at the Nojack camp ground.. Do they need to get a warrant to search it, and shut it down to search.. If they do have to get a warrant, would they not have to prove, that this is a crime scene in order to search it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 12:34:39 AM
I would think a warrant is for forced searches that may prove to be a prob. they prob got permission to search. campground..usually it takes a bit to get a warrant for all they have searched such as residents and the acreages..I watched all that video. had never seen that before. So now its just more saved. Want to rewatch as something hit me about it all.....Did i hear right that lyle and marie were going to deliver a package to their son in vancouver????Sommeone anyhow.. I see some people not on tonight...Do u think the police are watching this site?? I know someone is and Im hoping the perps.  :p :p to u perps...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 05, 2010, 12:42:59 AM
You heard right.. They were delivering a package to Bret's grandson, that was from Bret & his wife..

Thanks for the info on searches.. I know they need warrants for homes & such, I just was not sure, how it happened, in places like campgrounds.

 Yep site is quiet tonight.. I am sure LE monitor all of these sites.. after all, you never know, who will turn up on them.. I know they watch the FB page, as Bret has mentioned that a few times.
Perps very well may be watching, or are on this site already.. Probably laughing at us.. or crapping there pants if we get close to something, that we do not know we are close to..

 Any way Mindy, My brain needs a break from this, so I am going to call it a night.. Talk to you tomorrow.. :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 12:59:57 AM
nights edsonmom.. :) hope u have a bad night perps. we will get u..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 05, 2010, 03:12:12 AM
The Police did go back to the campground as well as the area around the motorhome several times, the McCaans have also been out there on searches. The items of value, refer not to monetary or known value, just the potential they may lead to something. cigarette butts or?

There was an attempt at a profile by redbeard awhile back. There are still some notable points arising that we should keep in mind. As others have wondered, was Vader the brains here or are the events indicating that there was someone else orchestrating what we are seeing?

From the news article Mindy posted back a few.

Quote
A woman who knows Vader said he is somewhat feared in the Niton Junction community.

The woman, who did not want to be named, said some believe Vader was involved in a fire that broke out on his property in the past.

She said he's an intelligent guy though somewhat unbalanced.

"He worked in the oilpatch and he had a very good job. But apparently he quit it," she said, adding she believes Vader has at least six children.

Vader has some friends in the area. "He's got a few friends around here. All shady characters, I would say, doing the same thing as him."

The identity of those people would be no mystery to the locals or the RCMP.

Vader has already been the subject of a fair bit of interest and as his charges indicate, has been granted an inordinate amount of leniency. Too much for an average unconnected guy!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 05, 2010, 08:39:06 AM
Hey, sorry I've been out of the picture for awhile.  Just some points I wanted to make after quickly looking over the last few posts:

- Regarding the water being left on the stove to boil over and cause a fire in the Stewart disappearance, I don't see this as in keeping with the mentality of an arsonist.  It is too passive.  For an arsonist, the thrill comes in knowing that you have actively put the components in place to cause the inferno.  The fire is almost like a demon you have summoned through ritual to consume the earth.  I think more likely in the Stewart disappearance, the offender just didn't notice or care that the water was on.

- Just want to stress that my profile doesn't say "the killer is Vader".  I didn't read bout him, intentionally, until after I had finished the profile.  The traits I list are what I see as in keeping with offenders who commit these types of crimes I have familiarized myself with in the past.  If Vader fits, then he is a good suspect, but this must be corroborated by physical evidence or a confession.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 05, 2010, 08:52:14 AM
I think it is important to keep in mind that this crime is not a particularly sophisticated one.  Think about it - you surprise a couple of pensioners in what appears to be broad daylight.  You then, after getting some unknown but probably insignificant amount of money, must murder them (a 25 year sentence) and are faced with the task of disposing of two bodies, a motorhome and car.  Wouldn't it make more sense, be less risky, and have less legal repercussions just to burglarize a middle class home?  The setting is a lot more predictable as far as how much money you are going to make than surprising an old traveling couple in their motorhome.  You also don't have to worry about disposing of vehicles and bodies, or massive media exposure.

For this reason, I think the crime was spontaneous, driven by the whims of a drink and/or drug addled loser (and possibly his friend) who saw an opportunity, and rather than deciding whether it was a good one, just decided to take it.  I also believe that, for at least the dominant offender of the partnership, there was more than just a simple material motive to this crime.  This was his an "f-u" to the world.  It wasn't about sex, but it might have contained unconscious elements of power in it.  At the surface though, I think it was about the thrill of killing.  Almost that same gang mentality as a pack of wayward teens kicking somebody to death because they think it's fun or exciting.  There may have been very little thought as to what or why they were doing what they were doing.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 05, 2010, 09:03:22 AM
For this reason there will not have been dismemberment.  Dismemberment will only occur if 1) it is necessary to body disposal, 2) it brings sexual gratification to the offender.  I believe because of the victimology (older couple, less chance of sexual component), size of transportation (SUV and motorhome) and size and isolation of available area for dump-grounds, that dismemberment would be time consuming, messy and superfluous.  It is a meticulous process that requires a rare level of cold-bloodedness, and I am unaware of any murderers who have both the predilection for arson and dismemberment.  In short, I just don't see that level of deliberation, care and attention to detail in the kind of offender who would jack an old couple's motorhome, drive around in their vehicles for days and then set it ablaze, drawing attention to their crimes.  The guy (if he had a gun) or guys who did this are a bunch of pissed off hellraisers with zero ability to delay gratification, constant emotional instability and no imagination.  Think Paul Bernardo or Ted Bundy, and then look in the TOTALLY opposite direction.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 05, 2010, 09:23:38 AM
Now, as I've said before, this is not to say that the dominant offender in the relationship isn't intelligent.  Allan Legere had a rather high IQ from what I remember.  But once you factor in 1) lack of impulse control, 2) mind altering substances, 3) the lack of any need to take any pride in the intellectual way you have committed your crimes... you can see an offender with a lot of raw intelligence commit a murder that is far below his natural IQ. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 05, 2010, 11:16:40 AM
Good to see you stop in again Redbeard. That was a good tactic to stay away from the personal details about the suspects till after you had a look at the crime details.

Quote
Just want to stress that my profile doesn't say "the killer is Vader".  I didn't read bout him, intentionally, until after I had finished the profile.

These latest posts take us a little further in than before and you can start to get a feel for the kind of people who would do something like this. There appears to have been a small gang like group of similar minded people as Vader operating in this area. Whether Vader was the dominant of the team or not isn't clear but sure sounds like he belongs on the list.

Another one of the things I am curious of; as you have noted the unsophisticated nature of the offence, the lack of impulse control, the spontanaity of the act, after all a motorhome is a moving transitory target.

For these guys it was as if a middle class home was brought over to them just for them to rob. If they couldn't go out to rob one otherwise, this was as good as it could get.

The initial crime all seemed to follow along with that pattern, then, depending on what can be believed or not, it's almost as if someone else starts calling the shots on what to do afterwards. Maybe that is an illusion just because this remains unsolved? but the spector of a planned and deliberate attempt at an alibi seems a distict possibility.
and thnx again redbeard
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 11:39:32 AM
WHAT TYPE OF PERPS JUST GET A THRILL OF MURDER ON A WHIM...? Would they have done this before? Were the mccanns killed in the MH or out of it. Burning the MH hiding what evidence  that perps were in it or that they had caused blood shed in MH..You,d have to be pretty high on something to do this with a mental capacity of nothing...Theres no intelligence here..s you said redbeard they were dumb enough to create so many crime scences hiding nothing..They get off on the attention alright.Theres enough of it..Theres a possibility that the perps may not of even killed them stashing them away where they would pass quite quickly..If a druggy is just out for money you steal it and run. These guys had to go beyond what a normal druggy would do. Of what I have seen...So this wasnt just a case of needing drug money..If these type of people are running around vaders area they are in for more.Now that the perps feel they have committed this crime getting away with it ,Im sure they will try it again.....The thrill as u said...These perps may know vader but prob go about their life and jobs if they have one, like nothing happened and who would suspect them as no one knows everyone vader knew..If these perps have wives or kids this family would of noticed their abscents....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 05, 2010, 11:48:16 AM
Quote
For this reason, I think the crime was spontaneous, driven by the whims of a drink and/or drug addled loser (and possibly his friend) who saw an opportunity, and rather than deciding whether it was a good one, just decided to take it.  I also believe that, for at least the dominant offender of the partnership, there was more than just a simple material motive to this crime.  This was his an "f-u" to the world.  It wasn't about sex, but it might have contained unconscious elements of power in it.  At the surface though, I think it was about the thrill of killing.  Almost that same gang mentality as a pack of wayward teens kicking somebody to death because they think it's fun or exciting.  There may have been very little thought as to what or why they were doing what they were doing.   

I've just finished catching up on this thread again. From the beginning I've felt that this was totally unplanned, spontaneous. Simply a matter of the McCann's being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Totally agree with redbeard's statement above.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 12:25:00 PM
I dont know the area up there but it sure looks like people own alot of acreages.Theres alot of water up there.The thing here is if the perps live in the area other than vader of the obvious they traveled during the day also..Didnt seem to matter if they were seen..They drive into minnowlake boldly, backing MH in like they were ordinary campers..They could of picked anylake off highway 16..Minnowlake just happen to be the closest from their hiding spot..Its nothing new perps driving around in stolen vehicles..Vader does it in his own town..Then distroys them.Why they didnt burn SUV who knows.WAs it in hiding just incase they needed it again or no evidence in it to burn it..The thing is the owner of the property was working around his acreage and found it..Placing the SUV on someone elses property was prob just a qick who cares drop off...Right now it is trying to figure out who these perps are...and if they are from that area,or just a ways out....Im sure the mccanns MH wasnt the only one puling in that day in niton or where ever...Lyle could of pulled over regarding his heart..The thing to is most drug people not even up that early as it would of been about 11 or 11:30 morning approaching the niton area?. So were these perps really high or naturally just stupid!!!!! Brain cells totally gone....or should we be doing algerbra here..+3 -2
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 05, 2010, 12:33:58 PM
Call banana D and ask him how much dope Vader and "friends" purchased the night before? What state were they in that morning and how desperate were they for more!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 05, 2010, 12:59:45 PM
D1 : I am absolutley on it and if he gives me trouble i,ll tell him I will chase D1 after u.. lol..Im sure a cab company knows where he lives..he,s always so gooned he would talk circles around u..Fried brains does that..Nothing much left in that head but mush and old memories or things of imagination wilder than any dream you have ever had...They dont even have atime frame..I have arelative in her 50,s on the meth program now but over takes that too. To many years of heroin.Its quite a challenge to carry a normal conversation with her going off in a total diff direction from one extreme to another...U can catch her in a normal moment then off they go to planet whatever they are on..pretty sad but once the brain is fried theres no getting it back..really sad..So talking to bandana dave will be a breeze..just have to put yourself in his world of fantasy..They are dreamers and really feel they will achieve..They can do the impossible..Most drug dealers just have cells.Things that are not trackable....Will try to find him... ;) Gee. He may even be on facebook.lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 01:41:55 PM
I have spent the past few days, going over every news report & video, on this case. One statement that all of the McCann children/grand children have said over and over, is that Lyle and Marie, were they type of people, that would help anyone who needed it.
Thus bringing another theory to mind, and I apologize in advance, if this has been discussed already, as there is so much on this thread, that it is hard to go through it all.
While reading this, Please keep in mind, that Travis, as violent as he is, has never been convicted of murder, and as far as we know, has never commited murder.
We all feel, that there is no way, Travis acted alone on this crime. We know he is some how involved, due to now being a suspect. It was stated early on in the news, the night before the Vigil, if I am correct, from a retired profiler (will look for this story), that they were certain, there would be a woman involved in this as well.

What if, the plan of July 3rd, for Travis & this woman, who were probably stoned at the time, was merely to hijack a car, Woman is in her car,pulled over on the side of the road, waiting for someone to stop and help out, with Travis hiding, either in the back, trunk or ditch. Lyle and Marie, being the soft hearted folks they are, pull over, to assist this young woman in need. Once Lyle is looking under the hood, TV jumps from his hiding spot, and runs onto the MH. Marie screams, Lyle runs back to MH. Maybe by this time, TV holds a knife to Marie's neck. We now know that Lyle had a heart condition, what if seeing his wife, being held like this, caused him to have a heart attack.  TV and woman panic. and kill Marie. Call friend to help clean up the mess..
Just speculation on my part guys.. I wish the LE would give a bit more info on this case.

I am in the middle of making a list of confirmed facts, & unconfirmed facts on this case, maybe some where in there, we can find something we have been missing..Will post it when I am done.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 02:39:26 PM
                                 Known confirmed facts

.. Lyle & Marie McCann, were last seen getting fuel, at St. Albert, on July 3rd, 2010, at approximately 9:30 am. ( It would have only taken them roughly 15 min to hit the out skirts of city limits, to hit the Yellowhead trail west bound, if they left, straight from there. This would put the estimated time of arrival in the Edson area, to be around 11:45 am, Niton area would be roughly 11:15 depending on speed, but even at 100 KM per hour, it would only take 2 hours to get to Edson area.)

..July 5Th. Smoke is seen above the trees, in the millers lake area, Fire department is called out, to find MH burnt to the shell, however registration is able to be saved, and MH is linked back tho Lyle & Marie McCann. Fire Department didn't find any remains inside the motor home.  Attempts to contact the registered owners by phone failed.  Edson RCMP forward information onto the St. Albert RCMP for follow-up.   

.. July 10Th McCanns fail to meet family in BC and they contact St. Albert RCMP
 
.. July 11Th RCMP in St. Albert issue a news release alerting public to the missing couple saying that the motor home was last spotted in the Edson area.

..July 12 Late in the afternoon RCMP confirms that a burnt out motor home found near Edson was the McCanns and that their Hyundai Tuscon is missing.  RCMP say K-Division Major Crimes is involved in the investigation along with Edson & St. Albert RCMP Detachments.
 
July 13Th RCMP launches a massive search of the area and issue a missing persons poster along with pictures.  They hold a news conference with family members as the investigation ramps up.
 
 RCMP admits there was an error in the first news release and that they actually knew then that the burnt out motor home near Edson was the McCanns on Saturday July 10Th.  RCMP say they will do an internal investigation to make sure that proper procedures were followed and to see if any mistakes were made.  In a news release, RCMP say the family was notified of the fire immediately and pleads with the public to come forward with information.  RCMP say that a member of the Edson detachment has been put on desk duty. ( If they had the registration on the 5Th, why did they not know until the 10Th, that the MH was the McCanns?)

..July 14Th RCMP issue a press release asking for the couple to come back to the detachment as nobody took down their contact information and they needed to interview the couple.
 
RCMP say that the search of the Minnow Lake area is complete and they are following up on over 80 tips and evidence collected at the fire scene.  They continue to ask the public to come forward with information and be on the lookout for the couple and the vehicle.

..July 16Th 4:30pm The Eagle is the first to arrive on scene and to report of a police investigation about 30 kilometres east of Edson. Police later confirm the SUV was found at that location following a massive media presence in the area. Travis Edward Vader is named a “Person of Interest” and is known to be from the area. Vader has multiple outstanding warrants. (however TV was POI 24 hours prior to this release.)

..July 17Th & 18Th RCMP continue to investigate in the area where the SUV was found.. Vaders father warns "do not corner my son"
 
·        July 19Th Travis Vader is arrested with another man at a home near Niton Junction after receiving over 130 tips about the man. RCMP search the property
 
·        July 20Th The lawyer representing Vader tells a judge in Edson that he does not want to represent Vader any longer. Vader is remanded into custody and a second man who Vader was arrested with, is released without charges. His name is not released
 
·        July 21st The search continues at the property in the Niton Junction area while RCMP and civilian search teams search the Nojack Campground for clues in the case
 
·        July 22ND The Nojack Campground search ends
 
·        July 24Th A Vigil is held for the McCanns in St. Albert
 
·        July 27Th RCMP say they are continuing their investigation into the case while Vader’s sister defends her brother saying he would never hurt anybody. Vader is only a person of interest in the case but is not a suspect
 
·        Aug 6Th A new poster campaign is launched in an effort to find the missing couple
 
·        Aug 9Th Vader remains in the Edmonton Remand Center and appears in an Evansburg courtroom via video to answer to 14 charges related to possession of drugs and weapons charges.
 
·        Aug 10Th Vader has 2 more court appearances, one in Barrhead and the other in Edmonton to answer to several other charges including firearms, theft and failure to appear charges. He’s scheduled to appear in Edson court on August 17Th. RCMP maintain that they believe he has information that can be helpful in the case but have not named him a suspect.
 
·        Aug 10Th A trust fund is set-up at TD Bank to help fund a search for the missing couple and/or possible reward money
 
·        Aug 16Th Edson area stores help the McCann Family by distributing posters and information about the couple to hunters who are heading out into the back country for the upcoming hunting season
 
·        Aug 26Th The EAGLE is the first to learn of a search of a property east of Edson but police would not confirm the location.  According to sources, nothing of significance was found.
 
·        Aug 31st RCMP announce that Travis VADER is now considered a suspect in the case but don't reveal any more details as the investigation is on-going.  VADER remains in custody on unrelated matters.
 
·       Sept 10Th The McCann family says the reward fund is now $60 000 for information leading to the conviction of whomever is responsible.  Lyle & Marie remain missing.  Police search a property south of Nojack after obtaining a warrant.
 
·        Sept 12Th RCMP say a dive team is being called in to search a body of water that is located at the property south of Nojack that they are searching.  Search is scheduled to happen early in the week.

..Tuesday September 14Th - Police confirm No Human Remains found in pond.

..Monday September 27th-Family is allowed to starts search on their own.

..Sept 29Th. LE remove piece of tree at Chiplake, after a report, that a suspicious MH (possibly the McCann's) was in the area, and backed into the trees.

..Tuesday October 19th-Billboards to go up in area's where McCann vehicles found.

..Nov 10 Vaders dad reports to reporters, that son is just a scapegoat in this case.

..November 19, 2010
McCann family calls off search for missing couple, leaving it in the hands of LE, until they can return in spring.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 03:03:14 PM
    If I am missing any thing on either list, Please let me know, so I can add it..                                         



                                   unconfirmed facts in this case.

.        July 4th MH & SUV pull into Millers Lake campground, around 4:00 PM. Does not register

.        July 5th Manages of campground, states he knocked on the MH door, at both 6:00 AM & noon, to get it to register, but there was no answer either time. MH left campground sometime that afternoon.

.         July 12th. Fire close to where MH was found. destroyed a log home, four outbuildings and several vehicles. Police checking if it is connected to the McCann case.


·        July 13th A Prince George father and daughter report to police they spotted the SUV on July 8th in that city but later tell media that the police were not interested in their information.

·        July 15th RCMP confirms that there were multiple credible sightings of the SUV in Prince George for approximatly 4 days. (no actual confirmation that SUV was infact there.)

.        July 17th Residence of Niton & Peers come forward, that they have spotted Vader with a female, driving SUV in the area. Bandana Dave denies that Vader was in Peers, at his home

.       July 27th Bobbi-Jo comes forward to give Travis an aliby. States Vader was with her from the 4th of July - the 9th of July. (why did it take her so long, to come forward with this information?)

.       Sept 28ish man comes forward to say, he saw MH at chiplake park, back into trees, while there in July.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 03:12:22 PM
One other thing, that is now bothering me, from all of this info, and I need to add this to my confirmed facts list, is that on July 17th, TV's dad, came forward to say, that TV was very dangerous, and to not approach him, as if he is backed in a corner, you may be killed.  Alicia & Bobbie-jo came forward, as well as people in the community, to say, that no one in the family has talked to or seen TV in months, as he was not allowed on his parents property anymore, as they did not "TRUST' him, due to his crimes & drug use. ( now we know BJ gave TV an alibi for. so what is it, you have not seen him, or he was there.) anyway, now in a report not to long ago, (I will find the link & re post) TV's dad is now saying that he spoke to TV about this, and now feels like his son is being used as a scapegoat in this case. Tell me why does he suddenly trust his son??

The Canadian Press
Published On Wed Nov 10 2010
EDMONTON—The father of a man considered by RCMP as the primary suspect in the disappearance of an elderly Alberta couple says police have “bungled” the case.

Ed Vader told CTV Edmonton that his son Travis Vader, 38, was an “easy pick” for police for focus their efforts on.

He admits his son has had his troubles, has a short fuse and can be physically intimidating.

But he also says he’s talked to Travis and his son denies having any hand in what became of Lyle and Marie McCann.

The couple in their 70s have been missing since July 3, when they were seen gassing up their motorhome in their hometown of St. Albert, just north of Edmonton, on their way to British Columbia.

The burning motorhome was found on July 5 about 200 kilometres west of Edmonton and two weeks later, an SUV they had been hauling on their vacation trip was found abandoned in thick bush in the area.

When police first found the motorhome, they didn’t follow up on what happened to the McCanns until their family reported a week later that the couple had not shown up as expected in B.C.

It later came to light that after police publicized the disappearance of the SUV, a couple who claimed to have seen it in Prince George, B.C., were not questioned by Mounties there and were allowed to depart without leaving their names or contact information.

A few days after he was named a person of interest in the McCann case, Travis Vader was arrested on unrelated outstanding warrants for arson and property offences.

However, no charges have been laid against him relating to the McCanns.

“I believe that Travis was an easy pick,” said Ed Vader. “They had blundered it and had a problem. He was on their radar; he was somebody that had a charge that could be brought up.

“We feel the whole thing has been horribly bungled and we’re getting painted with the dirty end of the brush.”

RCMP defend their actions involving Vader and say the case is still being investigated.

“He is our primary suspect, because the investigation leads us to believe he is involved in some way in the disappearance of the McCanns,” said Sgt. Tim Taniguchi
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/888449--alberta-rcmp-accused-of-bungling-case-of-elderly-couple-missing-since-summer (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/888449--alberta-rcmp-accused-of-bungling-case-of-elderly-couple-missing-since-summer)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 06, 2010, 03:17:10 PM
Excellent job at summarizing all of the facts, Edsonmom.  It's much easier to read now.

One comment I'd like to make on your recent theory about Travis and friend surprising the McCanns..... I don't think Travis has got enough brains to think up a sophisticated plan like that.  You're giving him waaaay too much credit.  If anything, he was probably trying to figure out where to get his next dollar from when he came across the McCann's.  I don't think he pre-meditated a darn thing.  He's just a dumb-dumb.  Bobbi-Jo isn't much brighter - she outta take the $60k and run.

Anyway, thanks ago for the synopsis - good work!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 03:28:01 PM
Thanks Mom.
Travis is good at one thing, and that is stealing vehicles. He has been doing it since 95, that we are aware of, so I respectively disagree, with the statement, that he is not smart enough to pull that off..
He may be a few screws short, but this is something he knows. ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 06, 2010, 03:38:20 PM

Wow, great job Edsonmom. That is a lot of work! Just finished reading all you've recently posted. It does help to put it all in perspective.  :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 03:48:53 PM
Thanks Deb, just had to go back and add a few things, that I just remembered.. I am sure there will be more.. lol 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 04:16:56 PM
For sure there is a woman involved..Vader has a distinct look to him having red hair and facial red hair.. very noticeable and likes to wear hats...Didnt this camper see this. His being upset that he cant describe 2 guys in MH is bull. If he could tell they were late 30,s HE SAW THEM...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 06, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
You're darn tooting he's able to do all of the above.  I just don't think he did much planning - before, during or after.
That's what I meant about being dumb and not sophisticated.  He seems to fly "by the seat of his pants".   ;)

Thanks Mom.
Travis is good at one thing, and that is stealing vehicles. He has been doing it since 95, that we are aware of, so I respectively disagree, with the statement, that he is not smart enough to pull that off..
He may be a few screws short, but this is something he knows. ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 04:26:21 PM
Mindy.. maybe they threatened him, or he knows what they are capable of, and just does not want to risk saying who they are.!! But I agree, I think he knows who they are..

Mom, I understand what you are saying now.. Thanks.. :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 06, 2010, 04:32:21 PM
It depends heavily on how observant a person is, as well as the situation,  or how the situation grabs your attention.  By this I mean, if I were fishing all alone, and two people pulled up boldly or quickly to that quiet fishing spot, they would catch my attention and my ire.  However; I would probably be paying the most attention to the vehicle ..its size, shape, color and model (if I'm familiar with that model).
I would be nervous about eye contact with these men.... I would probably pretend not to notice them or care. 

But!  if I had someone else with me, I would be quite snoopy, and stare at them remembering all I can.  I am not very observant about "average looking" people; however, someone with noticeable physical characteristics such as very short, very tall, very agile, very lame, or "red hair" for instance..... or grey-white hair .... would stay in my mind.

I do believe this man saw enough to describe these guys to some extent.  Especially the SUV ... and/or the motor home.  The "Hyndai Tuscan" has only been out a few years, but they have their own set of colors .... just as Ford does, KIA does ... etc.   Most men do identify those things.   The motor home was also very noticeable... not plain by any means!  I think the tips were probably flowing in to police regular - until word got out it was a few well known lunatic meth heads.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 04:38:50 PM
Why does this statement bother me so much?? Maybe it is the fact, that they say "in a manner that threatened someone else". Maybe there is more to this, then we know..Did he try to kill someone through fire before? we know he is suspected of setting the family home on fire in 04, was the family in the home at the time, or away. This fire in 09, was a person involved, or just someones property. There may be way more to this guy, then we think..

Quote
Vader is accused of burning his own property on Dec. 8, 2009 in a manner that threatened someone else or their property.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Edmonton+fire+missing+couple+linked/3291968/story.html#ixzz17NDevsBv (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Edmonton+fire+missing+couple+linked/3291968/story.html#ixzz17NDevsBv)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 04:43:28 PM
Those towns better get together and have a town meeting about all these thugs. 2 people are missing because of some drugged out retard up there..Dont they have mayors up there..What a bunch of guttless people...I,ve even been hoping to over hear people talking down here where the mccanns should of made it...Drug people know people from all parts of canada etc...Have someone thats on the streets keeping their ears open too..Hope someone doing that up there..D1 pretty smart. He should go with his main man up there..And we should go see vader..lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 04:58:48 PM
vader deff has anger issues fighting in bars, setting things on fire. stealing vehicles then burning them would want the police to talk to him alright..I know a relative on the streets that is the best liar ever but as you get to know them and their world YOU know their lieing...AND they know you know they are lying..We are working on what we have been given or out of research that is fact. The MH at minnowlake is fact according to camper guy and caretaker...The stupid thing is no other campers saw MH???Get real...Can this caretaker . as the money guy he should be able to say how many campers were there that wkend?.How many MH,s came into Minnowlake that wkend? There were other sites near by and just this camper guy saw MH??? With slide in how did these perps go to the bathroom??They waited until the middle of the night. Did police get a dive team in for minnowlake..Didnt hear of that.. Its only about 35 acres...Cant rent a boat there so they couldnt of dragged bodies out to the middle of the lake...I heard that wkend it was really raining up there...Who wants to camp in that too..You check forcast out before going camping..If the police checked things out as good as I have seen on TV this wouldnt be going so long as they have PI,s etc working steady on things. Im sure the police up there are not in avid investigation...They need a cruical tip to come in before doing that and none have come in..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 05:42:22 PM
Minnow Lake Camp ground, is not very busy Mindy. It is far off the road, and most of the road, up there is gravel. Most tourists, would not even know it exists, Mostly people who live in the area go there, The popular lakes for Edson area are Bear lake & sundance lake. They are always full through the summer. Minnow lake Camp site is small, and heavily treed, so even if there was one camper on one side, and another on the other, you might not know anyone was there, unless you drove through the site.
There is a Mayor in Edson, but he does not seem to do much about the drug problem in the town. He won't get involved in this case, as there is not much he can do. Niton & Mackay, & Peers are too small for mayors. Niton has a population of about 250 people, and Mackay maybe has 100 between the Highway & the actual town. Peers would have a population of about 450.
There are a few lakes in the area, that should have been dragged, but as far as I know, the only place divers were brought, was the pond in Mackay.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2010, 06:17:29 PM
All real good stuff, we had way too many pages on here for most anyone to be expected to catch right up. Lately we have been getting a much more comprehensive picture than we had before.  All of these pieces are of the utmost importance to solving this crime. Somewhere in here lies an answer!
thnx EM, now everyone is armed with enough info to comment and make suggestions..

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 06, 2010, 06:36:40 PM
Thanks D1.. That was my reason for doing it. To much info, to really go over, and some of the important facts, have been lost along the way. This way everyone can refresh their minds, with the info we have, and hopefully come up with some new in put on this case..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 06, 2010, 07:00:45 PM
Thanks Edsonmom. There was far too much for anyone to get up to speed on, especially if they haven't been following. Even a lot if you read all the time.

I believe this is now the largest topic on the site with 133 pages in 2 separate threads. Almost 26,00 page views. You guys have done a lot of work!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 07:04:05 PM
One thing missed on SUV in PG.. If the right SUV,was there mud marks all over as it was found that way..It had been dragged to minnowlake raining and who knows where in that area. Now if it had gone to PG didnt these people notice the mud on it??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2010, 08:07:31 PM
In all of these news reports and the recent video updates, we have to remember that this is an active murder investigation and the authourities won't tell us everything. So when we ask why this or why that, there may be reasons behind it other than threats. Maintaining the integrity of the investigation and all that.. Some we can view as counterproductive to finding the Mccaans or even obstructive to that goal, but we can't do much about it. We have what we have. Sometimes you have to read between the lines a bit more than at other times..

Travis Vader's parents are parrotting what they were told by Travis IMO, this is Vader's excuse, his sis provides the alibi.. Thats what Law Enforcement is up against.. or at least this is a close approximation of the official line..

In the detail, we are looking for ways around that, one of the things of note was from the most recent update, a quote to the effect- there have been "persistant" reports of the suv being seen around Peers, Vader and two others, one female.

Our news organizations are hamstrung, the days of investigative reporting are all but over. To go any further than what they said would almost get them charged with interfering in a police investigation. To have said that tells me, there are people out there trying to get the information out to someone in a public fashion and they may not trust the RCMP.
.
Vader should not have been out with the number and type of charges he was facing, something isn't right with the guy, people may be afraid for reasons we aren't aware and have no solution for. Maybe they have tried to give statements but are being turned away? There has been a pattern of that surfacing right from the beginning, who says it stopped!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 09:03:39 PM
So where do we go from here then..The medias hands are tied. Really unless someone talks our hands are tied. We can call whoever up there but they have the upper hand as they can just hang up...Like I said before , we need someone up there in heavy persute..Theres got to ba a way to attract the perp to come forward..$60,000 just isnt enough..The person coming forward could lie and say they were threatened to cover up why they took so long to come forward but then how did this person come to be in the position to get threatened...Only the police and reporter know who this camper guy is ....The police have tons more info we will never know and its still not enough to catch perps or find mccanns..The 15 year old blind girl that was killed in vanderhoof by a 20 yr old guy was quickly found by a cop going on instinct of seeing a vehicle coming off a old forestry rd. Some people are meant to be found and some not, and some yrs later...Only god knows what is going to happen with this..We could be here for months. years going on imagination or little new info that comes out..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2010, 10:23:22 PM
It doesn't hurt to have a better idea of what everyone is up against. The media don't have a vested interest either way, criminal and law enforcement may. Have we seen enough to determine the intent of all parties? Is Vader getting criminal assistance or official assistance? Is Vader being held to keep him away from talking or even from being killed by another party?

He had a partner by all indication, who and with which connections is another story? Whoever those persons were, they should have been brought in by now, if they were just a couple of the local doper Vader types that is. The fact they haven't and so little has been said, no descriptions, nothing, web have to keep that in mind. Something lurks under the surface and it may bite again.

By all rights the McCaans should have been found right with the burnt out motorhome or enroute to the campground as per the profile of Vader's type. They haven't and the trail of clues ends right at the back door of the RCMP. Everything is too little too late, accidental bungling? maybe,...maybe not!

Are they with holding details that could lead to evidence? .... The vehicle and party that dropped off Vader in Edmonton would have to be known to theb police. Bobbie Joe admitted to it, she has to have provided a description. It's Vader's alibi. That vehicle could be key to determining where Vader came from, the route he travelled and hence where the McCaans may be. And we get silence? This is only understandable if the police know who it is and have actively been investigating to where arrests are imminent.

Otherwise, well.. back reading between the lines..
 
Who else has this many multiple weapons offences, resisting arrest, dangerous use of a fire arm, obstructing a police officer, etc.. and keeps on getting released?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 06, 2010, 10:45:26 PM
Has there been any info at all if vader spent any time in jail what so ever??? He just kept getting off??Good lawyer...he prob could be let out on bail unless he skipped one...Sure would of been easiar if the Mccanns were left with the MH...Like I said earliar unless it has no meaning is the SUV. It was found with mud on it and wethere traveling or not it was still found muddy. Did the people in PG see mud on it. That would say it was the right one..That man and his daughter say they saw the people in it..old and not healthy?..WELL??? was it lyle or what? Always these old people with diff stories..Same with caretaker of minnowlake. I heard what I heard.I was shocked at his diff story in interview..What a bunch of wierdos up there...I wish the mccanns wouldnt rely totally on the police and get extra help from a PI or whoever..These phychics are useless...Im sure the police have ideas who the other perps may be..The police have not told the mccanns everything either...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 12:03:41 AM
The police aren't even confirming whether they believe the suv was in PG let alone if it was a dirty. The reports that do come out on almost anything in this case are so vague or contradictory as to be almost useless. The whole affair from start to finish hasn't been quite right..

The McCaan's are in a tough spot, to alienate themselves with the police would spell doom for the "investigation".. No one expects this sort of thing, no one has any way of preparing for it. A very good PI or a well connected organization to back the McCaans would be a necessity to get anywhere.

Either the RCMP have to come up with something real quick, or they will  just be seen as obstructing chances for the Mccaans to be found.. It's all just left hanging on Vader right now, without bodies we will all just have to wait and see. Unfortunately it may be years before they even have to lay a charge. Very convenient!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 12:36:39 PM
Couple of points-

Em, has left a very good summary here's a couple of minor changes to add though:
 
The chip lake sighting by the fisherman did not say the suv was with the motorhome then and we don't know why that sighting has been ruled out by the police. Paint chips or whetever alse they obtained can't be compared against the motorhome and wouldn't match the suv if it wasn't attached at the time.
and-
Quote
July 27th Bobbi-Jo comes forward to give Travis an alibi. States Vader was with her from the 4th of July - the 9th of July. (why did it take her so long, to come forward with this information?)

I believe Bobbie Joe claimed Travis stayed with her and her stepmom for 9 days, july 4th to the 13th..

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 07, 2010, 12:50:01 PM
Just double checked D1, and Bobbi-Jo says he was with her until the 9th.. Thanks D1 I made the change to the Chiplake one. I did not even catch that..Much appreciated..

Quote
Travis Vader stayed with the women until July 9, she said. Although he drove up in a vehicle, Bobbi-Jo Vader said it wasn't an SUV.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100727/missing-alberta-couple-100727/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100727/missing-alberta-couple-100727/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 01:21:21 PM
I feel the mccanns should take this in their own hands with other help..Nothing is going on..Police havent got anymore to go on..That chiplake sighting may of been a mistake of the wrong RV but the fisherman did describe 2 guys also in the same way but these guys got out.I personal think the MH could of been mccanns but why ruled out who knows..How could they tell by washed away paint chips that prob didnt even exsist..I think the fisherman retracked out of threats..who the heck knows...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 01:30:56 PM
If vader was with bobbi from 4th to 9th why would he go back to his home area knowing what went down and poss be pointed at as the one who did it.. Wasnt that taking a chance in itself..If vader was involved in anyway, he was either sure he covered up good or just plain guttsy..When was vader seen in peers driving SUV in peers with this woman..That I could see as he stole alot of vehicles anyhow..Bandana dave was prob right saying vader drove alot of vehicles but he too decided to retrack saying he saw vader with SUV..How much cloit did vader have up there for people to fear him...This morning I saw a MH and right away got the thought of another vehicle near MH,the perps saying to lyle and marie "come on pops and grans , we,re going for a little ride"..Then a perp took off in the MH....That was wierd...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 01:57:14 PM
re:
Quote
I feel the mccanns should take this in their own hands with other help..

I think the McCaans have to do something different and fast. I read somewhere, the McCaans weren't even allowed to conduct their own search until the RCMP gave them the go ahead.

Quote
How much clout did vader have up there for people to fear him

Thats where this has to go, who or what is behind Vader? Who are or were his associates? Who has that information? Are we looking for a couple of other dopers or are there bigger fish involved?

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 02:06:54 PM
This is an interesting report with a few more words added from Bobbie Joe..
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/07/27/14842126.html (http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/07/27/14842126.html)

Quote
She said she was glad police nabbed her brother because she had been worried he might get killed while hiding in the bush. She added his being in custody will also help with his addiction to crystal methamphetamine.

Bobbi-Jo said she last saw her brother on July 4, the day before the McCann's burning motorhome was found, when he came to stay with her at her Edmonton home.

Is Vader afraid of his associates? Is he in protective custody?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 07, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
WOW.. First time I saw this one.. Okay so we have a big discrepancy with what she is saying.. HMMMM!!


This is an interesting report with a few more words added from Bobbie Joe..
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/07/27/14842126.html (http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/07/27/14842126.html)

Quote
She said she was glad police nabbed her brother because she had been worried he might get killed while hiding in the bush. She added his being in custody will also help with his addiction to crystal methamphetamine.

Bobbi-Jo said she last saw her brother on July 4, the day before the McCann's burning motorhome was found, when he came to stay with her at her Edmonton home.

Is Vader afraid of his associates? Is he in protective custody?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 07, 2010, 02:23:36 PM
Okay, so Vader was last seen by BJ on the 4th, but he supposedly stayed with fostermom till the 9th. Bj lives right beside Foster mom, so if he was there till the 9th, why did she not see him?? Good job D1, I think we are on to some thing here..

Quote
Vader said her brother came to stay with them in Edmonton on July 4, a day after the McCanns were last seen. The couple's charred motorhome was discovered July 5.

"Travis did come to me in the city on the fourth to the ninth of July. And he stayed with Esther," Vader said. "He was tired and he was sick and he needed to rest."


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/27/edmonton-vader-court-appearance-sister-speaks.html#ixzz17SWU0A1i (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/27/edmonton-vader-court-appearance-sister-speaks.html#ixzz17SWU0A1i)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
Something is amiss... can't find any statements from stepmom..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 07, 2010, 03:02:59 PM

@D1...... Esther Rose McKay-Croswell is Bobbi-Jo's FOSTER MOTHER.  Not Step-mom.  I think I read somewhere that when Travis & BJ's biological parents split-up Bobbi-Jo went into Foster Care.  Travis may have stayed with his father - he was much older than BJ.

Quote
Something is amiss... can't find any statements from stepmom..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 03:11:23 PM
who would drive vader out to edmonton a almost 2 hr drive. He couldnt help with gas..Someone helped him get out of town that may of been his friend but then how good of a friends did he have to pick him up again..Vader knew he was still on run but still going back?  His sister didnt want him there any longer?Im surprised she remains on facebook. Its so easy to leave her a message..I would of gone off facebook with what all happened...She seems like a tuff girl..No one has even taken vader off facebook. so easy to do..Why didnt sister suggest that..email,password and off it goes but they remain on. minor detail but shows they just dont care and im sure alot of people have left messages....Either vader stole a vehicle or got a ride. bobbi knew he didnt have a vehicle so if he came alone she knew it was stolen..Living in the same area im sure vader saw his parents once in awhile..How could they call the foster mom step mom.....Vader had a real mom and stepmom...I think the mccanns really should of been able to search from the beginning...I know if me nothing could of stopped me. We know now to not just let the police handle this kinda of stuff..No ones memories are that bad either.if MH pulled in at niton it was seen..Where that interview with bandana dave was at the liquor store in peers may of seen SUV too..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 03:14:56 PM
foster mom has never spoken...Not that I know of
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 07, 2010, 03:27:00 PM
This is the Only quote I can find from Foster mom. You would think that she would have confirmed or denied Bobbi-Jo's story in front of the reporters.. So we still only have Bobbi-Jo's word on it, and now we find out, the LAST time she saw Vader, was on the 4th..

Quote
McKay-Croswell said she thought Vader looked "really rough" in court due to his withdrawal from the drugs and is glad he can find the help he needs while behind bars.

"Meth is a terrible thing. It wrecks your life," she said.
http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/07/27/14845161.html (http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/07/27/14845161.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 03:34:03 PM
Dr. Sally Headding forensic intuitive
Home Testimonials Consultations Contact  Contact
Based on the large number of emails that are received some might get lost or misplaced from time to time. This has no reflection on the merit of each email that is sent and tends only to be attributed to my being overloaded from time to time. This means that if you do not hear from me within a reasonable period of time (about one week) then something has been bungled and you will need to email me for a second time. I do my very best to answer each and every email that I receive.


-Dr. Sally Headding


      This may be a good person to get ahold of. I have messaged her before and they are very aware of the case..
 

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 04:11:06 PM
don bulmer is on facebook
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 04:19:09 PM
Foster mom did stand by and hear what was being said by BJ and did not attempt to correct it, she is a party to it in some way. Whether she will stand by that if pressed is another matter. Does she have a job or is she always at home?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 04:20:59 PM
The Don Bulmer? Have a link?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
facebook.com/DONNY.BULMER
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 07, 2010, 04:45:52 PM
Foster mom Facebook page..

www.facebook.com/people/Esther-R-Mckay-croswell/585410839 (http://www.facebook.com/people/Esther-R-Mckay-croswell/585410839)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 04:52:09 PM
feeling guttsy. want to message don bulmer. he actually looks harmless......its just if u message someone they have access to your facebook for a month i heard....there are phone numbers for his relatives too but not on facebook..he has a IPHONE
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 05:01:24 PM
a good reread..........................http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Vader+another+arrested+RCMP/3295805/story.html (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Vader+another+arrested+RCMP/3295805/story.html)

Vader and another man arrested by RCMP
 
Neighbours report ‘lots of action’ by police at MacKay property
 
By Ben Gelinas, Richard Warnica and Karen Kleiss, edmontonjournal.com July 19, 2010

 More Images »  Police at the house where Travis Vader was arrested Monday morning in MacKay, Alberta.Photograph by: Rick MacWilliam, edmontonjournal.comMACKAY — Fugitive Travis Vader was one of two men arrested at a MacKay home around 3 a.m. Monday morning, RCMP said.

Police have not released the name of the second man, and have not said how he is connected to Vader.

Vader, 38, was arrested on outstanding warrants but is wanted for questioning in the disappearance of St. Albert couple Lyle and Marie McCann. He is the only person of interest in that case.

The man who lived in the home, Don Bulmer, told The Journal on Saturday that Vader had lived with him there this past spring.

Bulmer, whose property was littered with empty beer cans and broken machinery, said that when Vader moved in he was expected to get a job in the oilpatch, but he never did. Bulmer said he threw Vader out about a month ago when he “stopped following the rules.”

Bulmer said Vader is a good guy who got into the occasional scrap. He said at the time that he didn’t believe Vader was involved in the McCanns’ disappearance. “If he did something like that, I’d be shocked,” he said.

But Bulmer did say the man could be trouble.

It is not known whether Bulmer is in police custody, or whether he has been charged.

People who live near Bulmer’s home say there was a heavy police presence around the property until about 3:30 a.m. Monday morning.

“There was lots of action around this area last night, and they were keeping an eye on Donny Bulmer’s place,” neighbour Robert Barker said Monday morning. “I saw the flashing lights out on the road and figured that they were doing their job.”

Ian Kennedy lives down the road. He first saw the police lights flashing around 2 a.m., and stayed up all night watching the police activity. He said there were more than half a dozen cruisers at the scene as officer cordoned off Highway 751. He saw a team of tactical officers converge on the house around 3 a.m.

“For the (McCann) family, they’ll get some answers out of this hopefully,” Kennedy said. “If not, (the RCMP) can go on to other things instead of spending all their efforts trying to find (Vader).

Herb Nichols said the police didn’t wrap things up until well after 3:30 a.m., adding people in the community are relieved that Vader has been caught. “It’s better for him and for everybody else,” Nichols said. “He’s going to have to face whatever happens, and it wasn’t doing him any good to stay out there.”

Neighbour Ben Decoteau said he has known Donny Bulmer since he was a kid. He said Bulmer and Vader are friends and that the home they lived in had a reputation as a drug house.

“He’s probably been there the whole time,” Decoteau said.

The McCann family was not available for comment Monday.

Vader was wanted on a slew of unrelated charges, including careless use of a firearm, possession of stolen property and arson. After allegedly failing to appear in court in late June to answer to these charges, warrants were issued for his arrest. The hunt intensified after RCMP named him a person of interest last week in the early-July disappearance of the McCann couple.

Lyle Thomas McCann, 78, and Marie Ann McCann, 77, were last seen in early July after leaving for a trip to B.C. in their motorhome.

On July 3, Lyle was captured on video filling the motorhome with gas at the Superstore in St. Albert. It was the last time their credit card was used.

Two days later, their motorhome was discovered in flames at the Minnow Lake campground about an hour southeast of Edson. Their SUV, which they normally tow behind the motorhome, was missing. Police phoned the McCann residence, but were unable to contact them.

The McCanns were reported missing on July 10, after failing to show up for a planned meeting with their daughter in Abbotsford, B.C.

Their SUV was discovered on July 16, in the bush near Carrot Creek, about 45 minutes from the Minnow Lake campground where their motorhome was burned and less than five minutes from Niton Junction.

The couple are still missing. The RCMP have received more than 170 tips related to the case and continue to ask anyone who may have seen the McCanns’ light green Hyundai Tucson (licence plate: ZPK 289) between July 5 and 16 to call them.

The McCann family have also set up a website asking for tips in the case.

kkleiss@thejournal.canwest.com

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 05:09:27 PM
The search for Lyle and Marie McCann "has been a banquet of mistakes, of laziness, of unprofessional conduct -- and two lives are in the balance here," Bill Pitt, an Edmonton-based criminologist and former Mountie, told The Canadian Press.

Sure would like to see this guy involved....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 06:24:09 PM
The McCaans should contact Bill Pitt, the article quoting him is from back on july 17th (ish). Wonder what he would say about all the botched leads since and still without resolution now?

The McCaans have to start looking for answers elsewhere instead of waiting on the RCMP. Winter is a time for reflection... maybe for us here too.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 07:06:04 PM
I,ll message bret about this pitt guy. enough is enough of all the police BS...Did u see bulmers facebook D1 ?. He seems to be kinda a family friend to the vaders..I doubt the mccanns are sitting back, their hearts still in their laps. What can they do though?..They relyed on the police so much and this pitt guy could of helped..AS soon as bret saw the video on this pitt guy talking about the reward money etc they should of contacted him right away or did pitt contact them?? This pitt guy is easy to contact working in edmonton..bret looks like a ver passive guy and whatever is whatever when it comes to the police...You trust police...They cant fix this now.But evidence sure was lost...When the time is right the whereabouts of the perps or mccanns will be revealed thru something..Wish we could all meet up there when weather better unless things take a big turn before that..Im still trying to figure out who this nina sage is. Alot of sage people in sprucegrove, stonyplain area and i think i saw one in hinton..Didnt dream of a MH or bus on blazing fire and 2 people running out then the name nina sage show up like a neon sign...for no reason..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 07:52:09 PM
edsonmom: been reading back on the other mccann thread and noticed u mentioned that chad, vaders stepson was on facebook but changed his name..is he still on there ??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 08:09:33 PM
The McCaans are in a really tough position, I doubt they can come any where near questioning the police activities to the degree we have. Its unfortunate, but realization of that usually comes a long time later when you give up hope. They get intertwined and contingent upon each other.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 09:12:56 PM
for sure D1..Its been a tuff 5 months
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 07, 2010, 09:17:53 PM
Foster mom Facebook page..

www.facebook.com/people/Esther-R-Mckay-croswell/585410839 (http://www.facebook.com/people/Esther-R-Mckay-croswell/585410839)

She is under both and Bobbi-Jo is on both.
Esther R. McKay
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=1129291618 (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=1129291618)
and as Esther R. McKay Croswell
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=585410839 (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=585410839)
She use to say she was interested in men on one and women on the other.  Whatever.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 10:03:24 PM
thanks talent. She sure is working hard on farmville. so am i ..Wonder if she wants to be my nieghbour?? lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 07, 2010, 10:09:23 PM
facebook.com/DONNY.BULMER

Donald Bulmer is Spookydoo1  on Whoome.  I think it is a dating thing, not sure.  http://www.woome.com/spookydoo1/ (http://www.woome.com/spookydoo1/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 10:22:47 PM
wow. thats cool talents.. not a very good pic but how the heck did u find this? no wonder some not on here for awhile. they searching like u..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 07, 2010, 10:56:18 PM

@ Mindy.... I think it was me that mentioned "Chad Wild", Victoria Vader's son from a previous relationship.

I just scooped this photo from Victoria Vader's Facebook profile.  (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=687461569 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=687461569))
Victoria "Vicki" is (Victoria Eva May Manary) Travis' ex-wife.
She lives in Summerland, British Columbia.

The boy in the photo (graduated high school in '09 - guesstimate puts him at 19 years of age todayish).
His name is "Chad Aaron Wild".    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=655006259 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=655006259)
Chad's hometown is listed as "Edson, Alberta".
Chad's current city is listed as "Summerland, British Columbia".

This girl in the middle of the photo (horizontal stripes and glasses) is Maeghan Vader.
All of the little girls have varying shades of red hair.

The second photo was posted 03-Jan-2009 and is tagged as "Bobbi-Jo Sztupovszky, Victoria Vader"
There is a Bobbi-Jo Vader Sztupovszky listed on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522226192 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522226192))
There is an Alicia Vader listed as Bobbi-Jo's sibling on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522580865 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522580865))
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 11:14:51 PM
thanks mom.. :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: wenchette on December 07, 2010, 11:20:03 PM
24Mindy ...weren't you initially one of these psychics?  Just wondering...your posts seem to sound like you have the McCann's (Brett & his family) ear......again...just wondering...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 07, 2010, 11:49:32 PM
Alicia Vader has deleted her facebook profile, was it active when posted here?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 07, 2010, 11:50:57 PM
no. not a psychic....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 12:02:01 AM
D1 : she is the nurse right?? Not sure she was active on facebook..She prob got alot of messages and questions..Surprised any of the vaders still on..Glad to see u on the look out D1...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2010, 12:42:02 AM
Yep still around. Going over some of the old posts and clippings again, I am noticing more and more of the old news links aren't working anymore, so keep posting the important articles when you come across them.

The RCMP have pretty well restricted and sequestered all of the information on this case to the point that no one would be able to solve it or find the McCaans but them.

We read reports from the RCMP about Vader like,"no charges are anticipated"

Vaders friends and most of the locals say no way Vader could do this..

Vaders folks and people who knew him all his life say he is being setup..

Yet Vader returns after a convenient absence, he'd been at sis's place and she says,
Quote
She said she was glad police nabbed her brother because she had been worried he might get killed while hiding in the bush. She added his being in custody will also help with his addiction to crystal methamphetamine.."


Why was she scared he was going to be killed? What did Travis tell her about that night?

Then Travis does something really strange, going back to Niton/Peers and showing himself off driving the hottest stolen suv in the country, all while it had just been reported on the news.

Then on the same day they name Vader a suspect, the suv is found nearby where he had been seen driving it.

In the following article is a reference to Police activities in regard to Vader before any of this began. He was likely the target of profiling, surveilance, and investigation just before the McCaans. They likely knew everything about him there was to know about him.

Quote
Alberta's Fugitive Apprehension Service Team, an integrated unit that specializes in finding fugitives, had taken on the task of finding Vader long before he was a person of interest in the McCanns disappearance.

"They had gone to look for him, to apprehend him, but were unsuccessful," Webb said

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Police+hunt+accused+arsonist+find+missing+couple/3288064/story.html#ixzz17UvZOm1z (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Police+hunt+accused+arsonist+find+missing+couple/3288064/story.html#ixzz17UvZOm1z)

He has evaded justice quite nicely within the courts, doubt he was hiding that well the Police couldn't find him! Where did they find him, a few doors down from mommie's place.

This could actually be the most important point to know in the case if the police leave it unsolved. I'm sure Bill Pitt would be able to spell this out better than I. If there was a setup, this is who did it and how.
Why? Someone else will have to answer that..
something like- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg48512.html#msg48512 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4043.msg48512.html#msg48512)

The whole article-
http://www.theprovince.com/RCMP+name+person+interest+McCann+disappearance/3288064/story.html (http://www.theprovince.com/RCMP+name+person+interest+McCann+disappearance/3288064/story.html)

Quote
EDMONTON — An accused arsonist with a long list of weapons charges is a person of interest in the disappearance of a St. Albert couple whose motorhome was found burning earlier this month.

RCMP said Friday they want to speak to 38-year-old Travis Edward Vader about Lyle and Marie McCann.

The McCanns' burning motorhome was discovered July 5 near Minnow Lake campground southeast of Edson. The couple, in their 70s, is still missing and foul play is suspected, RCMP said.

"We suspect the worst and hope for the best," RCMP Assistant Commissioner Peter Hourihan said.

The McCanns' light green 2006 Hyundai Tucson, which the couple was towing behind their motorhome, was discovered Friday in the bush off a country road near Carrot Creek, about 30 kilometres east of Edson.

It was found by a man doing work on the property, RCMP spokesman Sgt. Patrick Webb said. "He was walking along and came upon it." The man said he recognized it from the media coverage of the disappearance and called RCMP immediately.

Vader's sister, Alicia, told The Vancouver Sun that she and the family have not heard from Vader and do not expect to.

"Our hearts go out to the McCann family and we hope these developments lead to finding them," she said. "We can only hope and pray that he is just a person of interest at this point and that the McCanns will be found safe."

Though the SUV has been found, the call remains for tips from anyone who may have seen the vehicle between July 3 and July 16.

Webb said while the couple's Tucson was located just 30 kilometres from the campground where their RV was set on fire 10 days earlier, their SUV could have been driven in any direction for days.

Police are warning the public not to approach Vader, whose criminal record in Alberta dates back to 1995 with 12 separate sets of charges, including several from the Edson area.

Recent charges include careless use of a firearm, possession of stolen property and arson, but details on any charges older than six months were not immediately available from court records.

Vader received many of his recent charges while out on bail.

The oldest charges with details available stem from an Aug. 29, 2009, incident near Evansburg. Vader faces 13 charges, including possession of a banned substance, possession of break and enter instruments, and careless use and storage of a firearm. He was released on bail.

Then on Dec. 8, 2009, he was arrested again, this time in the Barrhead area. Charges laid in that case included possession of stolen property, mischief, arson and disqualified driving.

The arson charge was for allegedly burning his own property in such a way that it threatened someone else or their property. Again, he received bail.

His next arrest came a month ago, on June 15, in Mayerthorpe. This time it was 10 charges, including possession of property obtained by crime, unauthorized possession of a firearm and careless use or storage of a firearm.

On June 21, he was supposed to appear in Evansburg Provincial Court for the August 2009 charges but never showed. The judge issued a warrant for his arrest.

Then on June 25 -- 10 days before the McCanns' motorhome was found -- Vader was supposed to be in Barrhead Provincial Court for the December 2009 charges. He failed to show up again and another warrant was issued.

Vader has also run into trouble with the law in British Columbia. B.C. court documents say Vader faced several charges in January 2009 in Fort Nelson, including unauthorized possession of a firearm, resisting or obstructing a peace officer and mischief of $5,000 or under.

Alberta's Fugitive Apprehension Service Team, an integrated unit that specializes in finding fugitives, had taken on the task of finding Vader long before he was a person of interest in the McCanns disappearance.

"They had gone to look for him, to apprehend him, but were unsuccessful," Webb said.

Roy Getson, who said he grew up west of Edmonton in Niton Junction with Vader, said Vader had a reputation in town for being a fighter.

"That was well known about him. If he got into a bar, he'd get into a fight."

Getson said he hasn't kept in touch with Vader since Vader moved to B.C. a few years ago, but instantly recognized him in the photo released by police Friday.

"It's kind of a shock," he said.

A woman who knows Vader said he is somewhat feared in the Niton Junction community.

The woman, who did not want to be named, said some believe Vader was involved in a fire that broke out on his property in the past.

She said he's an intelligent guy though somewhat unbalanced.

"He worked in the oilpatch and he had a very good job. But apparently he quit it," she said, adding she believes Vader has at least six children.

Vader has some friends in the area. "He's got a few friends around here. All shady characters, I would say, doing the same thing as him."

She said she didn't have any trouble with him personally. "I always got along good with him. I never had any problems with him. I didn't socialize with the guy. If I saw him I said hello and he said hello to me, kind of thing. But that's about as far as it went. I do know his family, though, too. They're very nice people and they're well respected in the area, with a lot of friends around here. It's just too bad they have a son like that. I know they don't allow him anywhere near their house because of the way he is and what he does, and they don't want to be involved with that, I guess. They're not anything like that."

Vader was not known to the McCann family.

"Nobody in my family recognizes the name or knows anybody in that area," the couple's son, Bret, said. "My parents never mentioned anybody by that name."

Bret said all sorts of scenarios are playing out in his head. "But I'm just focusing on the positive here, that these things are breaks in the case and they're getting us closer to finding my parents.

"I have a sense that everybody in Western Canada is aware of this."

The McCanns disappeared while on their way to a campground in Chilliwack, B.C., where they planned to meet their daughter. They were last seen at 9:25 a.m. July 3, when surveillance cameras captured them buying gas at the St. Albert Superstore Gas station. Their credit card hasn't been used since.

Two days later, on July 5, a driver saw smoke rising above the trees near the Minnow Lake campground southeast of Edson. When fire crews arrived, they found the motorhome engulfed in flames.

Investigators are now searching an expansive rural scene, searching for anything that may lead them to Vader and the McCanns.

On July 12, a log house, four outbuildings, two tractors and a truck, along with a pile of wood, were all set on fire on an acreage just north of Niton Junction. The fires were suspicious, and Webb said RCMP have been looking into whether they are related to this case.

Vader is described as six-foot-two, approximately 230 pounds, with hazel eyes. Police say he is a known drug user.

Vader's Facebook page identifies his hometown as Summerland, B.C., and his occupation as a self employed "drilling consultant."



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Police+hunt+accused+arsonist+find+missing+couple/3288064/story.html#ixzz17V3Wdktl (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Police+hunt+accused+arsonist+find+missing+couple/3288064/story.html#ixzz17V3Wdktl)





Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 08, 2010, 07:32:49 AM
They needed  Dog the Bounty Hunter.   Alberta's Fugitive Apprehension Service Team couldn't find him?   That is hard to take.  The population out that way is quite sparce.    Miles between houses on the highways.   Vader stayed with Bulmer, until Bulmer kicked him out "for not following rules".     Vader's parents would have been able to help locate him.   How hard did AFAS try? 
When Vader's parents went on camera, I picked up from the stepmom that she was not impressed that LE never found him on his previous warrants.   She's right.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 08, 2010, 11:12:53 AM
Yep, here is the link to his FB page..
www.facebook.com/people/Chad-Aaron-Wild/655006259 (http://www.facebook.com/people/Chad-Aaron-Wild/655006259)

edsonmom: been reading back on the other mccann thread and noticed u mentioned that chad, vaders stepson was on facebook but changed his name..is he still on there ??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 08, 2010, 11:27:31 AM
Alicia is a nurse, but is not working right now, and she is still on facebook, I think I can see her profile, because we have friends in common. Trying to figure out, how to post the link to her FB page for you guys.. Not sure if you are going to be able to get this by clicking the link, but this is the link I got in FB search..

Add as FriendAlicia Vader
7 mutual friends.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?# (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#)!/search.php?q=Alicia%20Vader&init=quick&tas=0.49001544495953253
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 08, 2010, 11:52:13 AM
Not sure if they are both nurses or not Sap.. But I know Alicia is for sure, cause she has pics of her nursing grad, on her profile.

I don't blame him either. He changed it, because he no longer wanted to be associated to the name "Vader".. I think he was over whelmed with emails & questions about Travis, and needed a break. I feel for all of Vaders kids..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 12:20:13 PM
I do too SAP.. It just takes one bad apple to wreck the rest but if people are human, kind and understanding the kids wont reap what vader has done..I wish his kids could make him talk..Pleading with him,,Even his ex..I wonder if she saw him he would tell her...The Mccanns are just hanging here now waiting for something..Anything.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 12:52:48 PM
right now as it looks vader is facing charges in bc and alberta. they would bring bc charges to one court in alberta instead of him going back and forth..Vader would of had to of convinced police somehow of something for them to be put in protected custody.. If he did confess or tell of what he knows he would deff have to be protected..Im wondering if he even has a heart as bret pleaded with him, im sure with tears to tell of what he knows..What would it take? His dad going after him??Vaders court could take awhile .His sister thinking vader in jail will get him off meth?? what a joke. I know about 90% of druggies that go to jail suffer withdrawls and once out just go back to it..It was a forced withdrawl and not by his own choosing....Maybe he will never talk as it would lead to him being involved with the murder and then he would face more jail time..Saying who was involved could get him killed..Things as simple as the 2 kids at a school here 17 yrs old dealing in weed got kidnapped and taken up a mountain getting killed. Thats how it is in the drug world..Even trying to get out of a gang.Theres major rival there with these gangs..Theres a possibility these perps were in a gang and were dared then it went all wrong.The thing is they will shoot you if they have to tho....They dont care. They never did find  the shooter of this kid here shot 6 times on a dead end road..Dont know if up there but theres the UK gangs and the scorpian gangs besides the hells angels..The UK gangs the worst..No hells angels in this town but they arent far away..So are we dealing with 2 retarded idiots off on a rampage or actual gang members......You just dont dick with them..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 01:21:23 PM
vader has had plenty of time to have a somewhat normal state of mind. It is usually a 2 wk period of hell coming off meth or anyother  drug.They have drs. in the jails so he would of gotten help..Until all his charges have been dealt with he would remain in remand custody..Its just a holding pen really...The reward money has been set. No more. no less and doubt bret would use it for PI as the public knows about reward money...Im sure tho that the public would help to pay for someone like BILL PITT...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 08, 2010, 01:31:07 PM
I agree so much with this SAP-
Quote
Mindy, if I were Bret right now, I think I'd put that 60 grand towards a good PI. I'm wondering whether the Mccann case is some kind of leverage for something we don't know about. I would really hate to see the lives of this dear elderly couple minisculed for other information.

Someone with enough training and experience has to look at this side of things before anyone can get any further. Whether crutial details of this crime are being restricted for valid reasons or for some other undisclosed motive can't be positively determined by any of us. We know that the RCMP hold information that could identify additional legitimate search areas.

Bill Pitt would be an excellent choice to review this, he is a former RCMP member, is a well repected criminologist based out of the university in Edmonton, he is already familiar with the case, he had suspicions originally and may have the security clearances in place to act as a go between. If the McCaans are listening...It's time to address the issue, we are all behind you!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 03:58:22 PM
have messaged him D1..He always returns my messages....You are so right. new eyes etc. Bill does know the case ...If he has a fee which we should find out ,Im sure the public will help...I would.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 05:13:22 PM
"I think from the get-go this has been a botched investigation," said Bill Pitt, a criminologist and former RCMP officer in Edmonton. "I think five precious days have been lost. I think the lives of two people lie in the balance."

The scene of the burned vehicle would have been "forensically compromised" by weather and wild animals by the time police combed through the site looking for clues, he said.

PItt calls the current investigation "too little, too late" and can't understand why a probe wasn't launched immediately after the motorhome was found.

"If I looked at a $155,000 vehicle being burned in the middle of nowhere, I'd start asking some pretty pertinent questions ... and I don't think that happened in this case," he said.



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/15/edmonton-missing-couple-rcmp.html#ixzz17Z4r6Ay1 (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/15/edmonton-missing-couple-rcmp.html#ixzz17Z4r6Ay1)



   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 08, 2010, 05:51:17 PM
Interesting!! Wildwood is right beside chip lake.. Wonder if this is part of Vaders gang??


Armed robbery in Wildwood
Evansburg RCMP are looking for 3 suspects after an armed bank robbery in Wildwood.
The theft occurred at 1:15 Monday afternoon when the suspects entered ATB Financial.
They were dressed in coveralls and masks to hide their faces, two of them wielding weapons.
An undisclosed amount of cash was taken before the 3 fled the scene in the stolen pickup truck they arrived in.
Police found the truck abandoned a short distance away where evidence has indicated the suspects had a second vehicle waiting for them.
No one was injured as employees were only threatened, and the investigation is ongoing.
http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=1322&cc=244 (http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=1322&cc=244)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 06:07:39 PM
cool. this could be the perps. wouldnt that be awesome...cant say perps of the mccanns stay in the peers area and with no winter traveling buzzing down 16 these guys desperate for money.This may be it. always another vehicle. nothing to stupid about these guys...Bank robbers in this century . how old fashioned..So pray the perps of the mccanns have popped out of the wood work and now will get caught. IF them...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 08, 2010, 07:32:09 PM
A while back someone asked about the weather in July.  I posted this in the old thread, I think and I here goes again.  This is for the Edson Weather station....

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&Prov=CA&StationID=31588&Year=2010&Month=7&Day=7 (http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&Prov=CA&StationID=31588&Year=2010&Month=7&Day=7)

Total precipitation July 3rd 2010 = 0.5 mm / July 4th = 2.0 mm / July 5th = 5.0
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 08:10:14 PM
whats with these bank robbers wearing overalls.. Are these the kind mechanics wear .Did they have light defecters on them? Yhey all had the same overalls?? wierd.. thanks talent. heard it really rained there. really got things muddy..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:19:20 PM
EDMONTON — An Edmonton criminologist says more Ontarians who come to Alberta to dabble in the drug trade will end up dead.


Since August, four people from Ontario, all of them previously known to police, have been slain in northern Alberta.


Criminologist Bill Pitt says that figure will continue climbing.


Pitt says the message being sent to Toronto is people coming to Alberta and who step on someone's toes will die.


Yesterday, Mounties released the name of a man killed Sunday in Fort McMurray.


Seventeen-year-old Daniel Asarfo-Adjei was shot dead in a drug-related incident just days after arriving there from Toronto.


Pitt says he was the fourth Torontonian slain in northern Alberta within months, adding thats no coincidence.


He says people in the drug trade are thinking Alberta is the place to make some money.

    VERY INTERESTING. fOUND A NINA SAGE IN ONTARIO TOO..THIS BILL PITT KNOWS HIS STUFF. HE PROB COULD TELL RIGHT AWAY WHAT THE PERPS CHARACTERISTICS ARE BY THE WAY THEY HANDLE THE MCCANN STUFF ETC...




Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:23:46 PM
Bill Pitt, a professor of criminology at the University of Alberta, said that violence toward animals is one of a triumvirate of behaviours, along with fire starting and bedwetting, that commonly indicate serous psychiatric problems.

WOW. HE IS GOOD..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:28:48 PM
Mounties ‘lazy’ from bottom ranks to the top
Robert Marshall, Winnipeg, Manitoba (Opinion, Winnipeg Free Press) – The inaction of a single RCMP officer must not tar all Mounties. But how far up the chain should this latest black eye spread?

On July 3, Lyle and Marie McCann, both in their late 70s, left their Alberta home driving their $100,000 motorhome and towing a small SUV. They were to meet their daughter in British Columbia.

On July 5, RCMP discovered the motorhome burning in some dense bush 200 kilometres west of Edmonton. The couple and the SUV were not around. The Mountie attending the scene made a marginal effort to locate the couple. He phoned their home but got no answer. Case closed. Because, as the Mounties would later say, burned-out motorhomes are found all the time.

Former Mounties are rightfully embarrassed, if not incensed. William Pitt, who left the force years ago and is now a criminologist, describes the officer as “energy-challenged.”
Former inspector Bill Maicher, a consultant with a Hong Kong-based bank, is less polite and when speaking to CTV News said the situation smacks of “laziness,” “incompetence” and “a lack of investigative know-how.” Both scoffed at the notion of burned-out motorhomes being common.

Pitt adds it was a “slough” job. And it was.

No red flags were raised given the couple’s ages. No red flags, given the value of the vehicle. No red flags, given that there was nobody who could say where the senior citizens were.

Would that officer have been satisfied with such inquiry if they were his mom and dad?

On July 10, the McCanns’ children reported their parents missing and the investigation shifted into high gear. But even then, the RCMP stumbled. After calling on the public for help in locating the SUV, a B.C. detachment was advised of a vehicle that matched the missing one. So disinterested was the RCMP employee that no particulars were obtained from the potential witness and no followup was initiated.

No cop worth his salt will take issue with Pitt’s or Maicher’s embarrassment.

This isn’t a case of armchair quarterbacking some split-second decision. Each move (or lack of) in the initial “investigation” had the benefit of time to determine a best course of action.

The RCMP now say the officer will have to answer to an internal tribunal, and higher-ups have not ruled out some external accountability as well. Criminal negligence isn’t out of the realm.

But what about the Mountie organization? With the light that has glared on them since the screw-ups that forced the resignation of commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, it’s astounding that a blunder of this magnitude could go unchecked for as long as it did.

What lofty standards did this “energy-challenged” officer meet when selected for the force?

What is RCMP training all about, given that most 12-year-olds could identify the negligence in a second?

Where were the supervisors and detachment commanders to ensure slipshod work doesn’t pass for acceptable?

The story is about a couple of missing seniors who are believed to have met with foul play. The sub-story is the circus of the initial investigation, and it goes back to a years-old study by Dr. Linda Duxbury of Carleton University’s Sprott School of Business.

She found that under Zaccardelli’s leadership, qualities were sorely lacking among senior RCMP officers who seemed to care more about themselves than the job or inspiring excellence in those they led.

The study concluded that the self-indulgence of those managers had a troubling, trickle-down effect that translated to a lack of commitment among disillusioned workers , who shifted to low gear and “retired on the job.” That means “energy-challenged.” Lazy.

This is no excuse for individual negligence, but it does underscore the perhaps flawed optimism of Commissioner William Elliott, who recently told the CBC that he would grade his force with a “C-plus.”

Hardly stellar, and that grade will be taking a few steps back by the time the dust settles on this one as an unflattering national focus zeroes in on the force. Fortunately, the investigation is back on the rails, the SUV has been recovered and a “person of interest,” Travis Vader, 38, has been found. The search for the McCanns, now into its third week, continues.

Although we may never know the full consequence of one officer’s reported negligence, Canadians have a right to be appalled by such obvious slackness. But just how far up the RCMP ladder should that shock and anger go?

Robert Marshall is a security consultant and a former Winnipeg police detective.

 
1 Comment

Categories: Failing to do Their Duties.

By RCMP Watch — 2010.07.24 at 21:10
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One Response
When the force abandoned the military concept with promoted teamwork, pride and work
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:42:35 PM


The Mounties came under sharp criticism this week from Bill Pitt, a former Mountie who has trained a thousand law enforcement agents in the United States.

In an interview, Pitt, who teaches criminology at Edmonton's Grant MacEwan University, said victims like the McCanns are paying for systemic breakdowns in RCMP rural policing due to staffing shortages, a slew of green recruits, and a culture of information hoarding rather than sharing.

Hourihan said despite the mistakes, it's critical the public not lose faith.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:48:20 PM
a missing Alberta couple, a law-enforcement expert and former Mountie charged Thursday as authorities in northern B.C. joined the search for Lyle and Marie McCann.

"It has been a banquet of mistakes, of laziness, of unprofessional conduct — and two lives are in the balance here," said Bill Pitt, an Edmonton-based criminologist, law enforcement instructor and former Mountie.

"I think just about every protocol I'm aware of as far as investigation is concerned has been missed, sloughed off or tried to be explained in some ridiculous fashion.

"It's a blown investigation from beginning to end. Completely blown."

Mounties in British Columbia and Alberta are pursuing leads in both provinces as they probe the disappearance of the 78-year-old former truck driver and his 77-year-old wife.

They left on vacation in their motorhome from their house in St. Albert, on Edmonton's northern outskirts, on July 3rd and haven't been seen since.

Mounties in Prince George, B.C., have confirmed they're running down tips that the couple's green Hyundai Tucson SUV, which was being towed by the motorhome, has been spotted in the community.

Gary Godwin, the RCMP spokesman in Prince George, said a couple came in Tuesday to report seeing the vehicle, but were allowed to leave the detachment before they could be questioned further.

Godwin said Thursday that civilian staffers took the information from the tipster at the front desk but were likely unaware of the public pleas for help being made by the RCMP and McCann family members in Edmonton that day, pleas that appeared on websites and on TV.

"I don't know if the civilian personnel were up on the file, whether they followed the news or not," said Godwin.

He said the staffers took down the details and the contact information for the tipsters and passed it on to investigators.

"They did the job they were supposed to do," he said.

Police issued a public request for the tipsters to come back and speak with them again, and on Thursday evening the Prince George detachment posted a brief statement on its website saying only that the couple had returned for a more in depth interview.

Pitt says the miscue, no matter how benign, is indicative of an investigation that was off the rails from the start. He says green recruits, staffing shortages and a culture of hoarding information in the RCMP is beginning to reap a terrible harvest for Canadian citizens like the McCanns.

Problems began shortly after the couple left their home. A surveillance camera at a St. Albert gas station captured them on tape after 9 a.m. Police say their credit card has not been used since.

Lyle McCann, who made his living as a long-distance trucker, was used to logging hours on the road. The pair planned to cross the provincial boundary that day and eventually hook up a week later in Abbotsford with their daughter for a camping trip.

In the end, the motorhome barely made it out of the region. It was spotted two days later at the Minnow Lake campground near Edson, about a two-hour drive west of Edmonton, with the SUV still attached.

The motorhome was found ablaze later that day in remote bush area near the campground. Fire crews doused the blaze. The SUV was gone. There were no bodies inside, but police found the registration linking the vehicle to the McCanns.

Mounties phoned the McCanns' home and Sgt. Patrick Webb, the RCMP lead spokesman on the case, later said officers knocked on the McCanns' door but found nobody home.

Police didn't begin looking for the couple until five days later, on July 10, after their daughter reported they didn't show up in Abbotsford for the camping trip.

Webb told a news conference Tuesday the case didn't immediately set off alarm bells because vehicles are often found burning in the bush and it's not unusual for people to be away from home during the summer season.

That answer doesn't make sense, said Pitt, who has extensive work training police.

Pitt worked for the RCMP in the Maritimes before moving to the classroom. He has trained a thousand police recruits in Texas and Montana, taught criminal investigative procedures for local and state police in the United States, and worked with such bodies as the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Agency and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. He now teaches at Edmonton's Grant MacEwan University.

The signs were there, he said: an expensive motorhome torched in the bush with a hitch but no vehicle behind it, owned by a law-abiding elderly couple that now couldn't be located.

"There was no instinctive reaction by police officers," said Pitt.

"The whole forensics of that crime scene were adulterated, ignored or sloughed off as just another burnt vehicle down that road.

"Nothing fit from the get-go. And to wait five days for the formal process of a missing persons form to cross your desk before you do anything is a disgrace."

When police couldn't reach the McCanns at their home, said Pitt, they should have knocked on a few doors.

Had they walked next door, they would have found Gottfried Rohmkopf, who told reporters this week he has known the McCanns for almost five decades and that Lyle had told him numerous times about the upcoming motorhome trip.

Once Mounties got the missing person's tip, they issued an alert urging people to report any sightings of the motorhome, even though they already knew it was sitting burned in a field.

Webb initially attributed that to a communication breakdown, then said it was done intentionally to protect the integrity of the investigation.

The McCann's son, Bret, made a public plea for help on Tuesday, leading to the latest tips on Prince George, which is 450 kilometres west of Edson.

Pitt said the public plea for help is justified but smacks of a stalled investigation.

"They're in scramble mode. It's the right thing to do, but (to begin investigating) 100 hours after the fact — it's a very cold crime scene."

Webb has said the force will look at how the investigation has been handled. He couldn't be reached immediately Thursday for reaction to Pitt's comments, but had said earlier in the day that despite the concerns, relations between the force and McCann family remain good.

"I spoke with them last night," said Webb. "Right now they realize the best chance they have of finding their family is to work closely with us."

Bret McCann declined Thursday to comment directly on the police handling of the case.

"This is all new to me, but the police seem fully engaged," he said.

Pitt said the Mounties as a whole have been struggling with a large cohort of senior members retiring in the past few years.

"The RCMP, like all police forces in the country, are incredibly young," he said.

"I think there are a lot of green members out there, operating by themselves who don't have a whole lot of experience. When something like this comes across your path, you may not know what to do."

But he said the force is struggling with a culture that doesn't always promote information sharing.

"The divisions within the Mounted Police are notorious for being highly balkanized. You would think there's a firewall between them. Between Alberta and British Columbia there's very little liaison. I'm not surprised there's confusion on what's going on in Prince George."
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 10:57:41 PM
WOW. anything re: bill pitt we put on here goes on google under his name.. found what i wrote about bill and relaying message to bret...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 08, 2010, 11:14:46 PM
I wonder if they've asked Vader to take a polygraph...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 08, 2010, 11:18:36 PM
I have mentioned that on here redbeard. I really wonder. How credable is that in court tho...Vader prob was asked but cant he refuse?? Its his right???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 09, 2010, 12:52:12 AM
The benefit of a lie detector if you were the accused, is that you could at least show you were willing, would appear to have nothing to hide, and the air of innocence is maintained. Opposite leaves the opposite. Nothing is mandatory.

 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: redbeard on December 09, 2010, 01:05:21 AM
Yeah, they're inadmissible in court, and rightly so - they don't always function properly.  But if Vader has nothing to hide, then why would he refuse to take one?  If he has refused, knowing that the evidence is inadmissible in court anyways, then that seems to indicate some level of guilt or complicity to me.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 09, 2010, 01:32:00 AM
I would agree with that statement but maybe it isn't time to play that card yet even if he has it to play. There are no charges and may never be. A lawyer would say no and leave it like that at this stage i would think. But after that, Vader and his sister and her foster mother should all be offered to take one. Either way It is telling in a way..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 09, 2010, 12:01:38 PM
I have been thinking about the "problem" of the MH not being spotted along the highway prior to its' arrival at Minnow Lake.  And I have what I believe might be another possible and hopefully a fruitful  suggestion for the MCCann's in their course of action to locate Lyle and Marie.  If the perps got off of the main highway and took the back roads, billboards would possibly be of little use.  I wonder,  should the McCann's reach out to a farming community newspaper, or periodical, showing a colored picture of the MH it just may tweek the memory of a farmer. A province wide agricultural paper would cover all of the bases, as well as local. Winter months would be a good time for this, as farm families would have more time.
July is a busy month for them, and they would be out working in their fields.  Yes, I know that pleas have been sent out in the various city papers, as well as TV. But oddly enough, not all farmers have the time during the summer months to watch the news, and they certainly do not always have the large newspapers delivered to their door.  It would take just one farmer or farm family - that's all to place the MH in that area. I have a very strong feeling that the MH spent the day before arriving at Minnow Lake, in a rural area. Perhaps on a side-road, or dead end road in a farming area. The agricultural community would certainly rally around the search, by way of searching their own properties, and once they get talking about it, it just may tweek the memory of someone. The MH is very distinctive in its colour and design. Perhaps there is someone on this thread who can reach Brett McCann and pass this on to him, and see what the family thinks of this suggestion. They have tried everything else.  God bless them.
JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 09, 2010, 01:23:22 PM
hi JB : Just dont know what to think right now.That robbery in wildwood could be the answer too. 3 guys in overalls and masks in broad daylightÉÉ these guys are dumb yet smart. stolen vehicleÉÉ not vader this time..Picking a bigger town than the niton area..Are these guys farmers..?..Wearing the same overalls? where did they get them...These could be the guys that hurt the Mccanns too..Where the stolen vehicle came from could be the area these guys are from...I hope the cops try to use these guys as possible perps of the mccanns..Where are these type of overalls boughten?..The camper guy from minnowlake was wearing overalls with the light reflectors..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 09, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
Just wanted to post these picks, from the back roads on Highway 47. These are from the Cadomin area, just past the hamlet of cadomin. This back road, comes out on the other side of Hinton. You can also get to the road Minnow lake is one, going in the other direction.
In the one with blue building, in the background, that is where one of the mines, used to opperate.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 09, 2010, 02:19:41 PM
I still think that the MCann's should reach out to the farming community.  Has anyone seen this Motor Home between such and such a date.  I am sure that the perps took a back road as soon as they hijacked the McCann's. We have a thread somewhere on this website with a son looking for his truck driving father. He reached out to the Trucking community through their web site  and received a possible siting.  Perhaps the Agricultural community have their own website as well? Yes, druggies are getting more brazen.  Broad daylight?  It doesn't matter!  Have to get the money to buy the dope.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 09, 2010, 05:37:29 PM
All farmers were asked to check their own lands quite awhile ago..Im sure there are acres and acres to check...Some may have such dense brush. Hard to go into..So far we feel the mccanns need BILL PITT on this..Afer 5 months nothing. He may beable to get the job done...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 09, 2010, 05:47:17 PM
Yes Mr. Pitt would be great.  As the song goes "Nice work, if you can get it".  And yes, the areas are huge.  Where does one begin to search.  But, if a farmer should say, oh yes, come to think of it, I did see a Motor Home around that time parked just over the last road on the left.  Now, the cops would have a more specific place to search. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 09, 2010, 08:38:27 PM
sure wish that would happen but if a farmer saw that im sure they would remember..Dont think to many MH,s travel those back roads or even stop at such places as niton junction. thats why if the mccanns had im sure those little gas stations would remember..Its the off roads that have to be searched..MH on road, MH off road. and as quick as possible..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 09, 2010, 09:29:58 PM
Who says some farmer didn't see something and call it in? The police have botched and discounted every other sighting from day one! whats one more, surprise surprise?
 
Farmers aren't what they used to be, they are more high teck now than the most of us, live satelite weather reports for planting and harvest, computer controlled tractors and equipment, tv even in some. Jake's dog even knows about the McCaans!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 09, 2010, 10:11:25 PM
lol..D1..what a awesome idea. go ask jake the dog. Im surprised these farmers dont have survelliance cameras with such big properties....google not doing a good job either with their updating...Webcams should be on highway 16 more..Isnt it uncanny how wildwood has a bank robbery..Taking 3 guys to pull it off? all in overalls and masks...Saw some mug shots of canadas most wanted and alberta. Not sure if updated tho..Well we are only in early winter and more to come and the months long.. No new tips. Very well doubt anymore if ever..Whatever goes on now out that way cant blame vader now....When ever a cop wants to question vader doesnt his lawyer have to be present?..If he has a lawyer..With nothing new coming in im sure the police have moved onto other stuff..They dont need 20 guys going over paper work..Just takes one...Its getting harder to go on with this now.. Need to get bill pitt involved. well bret does..It wont hurt. Rememeber when i told u about a friend who lost their keys. I was given dark and then their RV trailer. She said she looked there. Told her to go back. The keys were on the RV stove which was BLACK..I knew it was the RV but had no idea it was the stove...This just all came to me D1..I was given things of prob where the mccanns are but cant quite get it...I gave the stuff to u. Same people but daughter lost her IPOD TOUCH.. Right away I got brown, then a couch next to wall ..They looked but nothing..a month or so loater they decided to look again. It was in between the cushions...I,ll be given something of where something is but have to search for it...I lost my expensive mini camcorder once. was i ever upset... I got my car and thought how strange.. There it was but having to move alot of things to get it..wierd.. GET what I mean??? There is something in the things I have already gotten..AND NITON IS THE PLACE......THE WORD I GOT REMEMBER WAS TIPTON...COULD BE HINTON TOO..PLAY WITH THE WORDS..HINT...TIP...ON OR TON..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 09, 2010, 11:17:36 PM
Mindy, Niton may be small, but it is a major truck stop, due to the way they have parking lots set up, between the 4 main businesses on the highway, The big rigs can get in and out easy, and there is tons of room. Many MH's pull in there, for the same reason..

Quote
sure wish that would happen but if a farmer saw that I'm sure they would remember..Don't think to many MH,s travel those back roads or even stop at such places as niton junction. that's why if the mccanns had I'm sure those little gas stations would remember..Its the off roads that have to be searched..MH on road, MH off road. and as quick as possible..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 09, 2010, 11:55:23 PM
niton is deff a subject here. good to know edsonmom..The more the better ...didnt know that about niton.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 12:11:59 AM
You have to access the stores, by turning off the highway, onto a small side road. There are 4 businesses there. The first one, on the west side, is the K Motel, next is the bar, from there, is the Esso Station, and then Mills Motors on the east, then you go back on highway 16.
Most truckers & big MH's park in between the bar & the Esso, as that is where there is the most room, for big trucks. From there, it is less than a minute walk, to any of the 4 locations. If the McCanns parked there, then it would be easy to miss the MH. Lyle being a trucker, would know this, as the next truck stop, would be at the Branch corner, on the North side of Highway 16 & highway 47, 7 min from Edson.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 12:23:30 PM
I dont beleive in ghosts but right now I wish lyle and marie would talk...Or the perps get so loaded they talk in their sleep to someone or in a bar...I just wish there was someone that could go up there from the board..Have the time to hang about there  but really hoping bret will get BILL PITT involved..peoples minds are at sleep right now..The mccanns have been pushed down something deep..A cliff with water? or a old well. Somewhere where diposeing was quick and easy..The MH and SUV taking off in another direction while mccanns taken to rid of. Stupid country up there anyhow. so stinkin dense. AS I said before the perps may of gone to their own properties way , way back dumping them or even traveled a back road to a less visited area of water, high up in range ..Usually water is the best way to rid of someone but then with the densness out there a walkin would prove to be a big hassle but who knows..Just trying to determine if these guys are from the area..If so getting them would be easy...Are the wildwood bank robbers them? Could be but they escaped with masks on..3 guys,overalls and masks.thats what they wore taking MH? Country guys with farms? Would love to call that bank manager. what was the bank. the name?? need to know the color of the overalls, if light deflectors on them and the masks.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 10, 2010, 02:28:56 PM
If you guys don't find these precious two, doubt if anyone will.  Your efforts and research are relentless.  God bless Kyle and Marie's precious spirits and their loving family.  God guide you locals who are so loyal to this case and so "unselfish'.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 02:30:51 PM
SAP; For sure don't venture far off the main highway, it's doubtful the McCaans did and the main points of interest for us are all along the highway between Chip lake tunoff and minnow lake turnoff. The area right at the Niton junction still seems worth having a look, that specific area described by EM holds potential. The bar right there, Vader supposedly having a room right there etc.. be careful!

Mindy; the robbery suspects are of interest no doubt, hope more information and suspect descriptions will follow soon.
Quote
ATB Financial.
Alberta Treasury Branch - Wildwood Alta
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 02:36:46 PM
already talked to a repoprter up there in hinton. the police feel these guys could be involved with the mccanns. Also a robbery in whitecourt. cameras got this. wearing overalls etc too. these guys  are prob the perps that live in the area. the overalls in wildwood robery did have light reflectors on them. Is that a common wear for up there or with just farmers and oil guys??? police looking at camera stuff right now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 02:44:28 PM
Who ever was involved in the McCaan's disappearance is a nasty piece of work. Bank robbery or anything else is minor spuds compared to what they did before. Anyone doing in the McCaan's for money isn't going to just stop on their own, they will resurface somewhere.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 10, 2010, 02:49:39 PM

So in the end, if these bank robbers do turn out to be involved with the McCanns, as Mindy is questioning they will have been stupid enough to 'hang themselves', so to speak.

Who ever was involved in the McCaan's disappearance is a nasty piece of work. Bank robbery or anything else is minor spuds compared to what they did before. Anyone doing in the McCaan's for money isn't going to just stop on their own, they will resurface somewhere.

Good point D1. LE probably thought the same thing. 

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 02:56:30 PM
They poss ibley already have D1..This is what the police are suspecting. Now to just find them..With masks wont be easy to identify them thats for sure. Seeing their getaway vehicle yes. Dont know if they robbed the bank in whitecourt with a stolen vehicle  and a getaway car tho..Reporter didnt know at this time...They sure are hitting the round about areas not to far from home. pretty desperate now arent they..If them they have come out of the woodwork and now poss caught...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 03:09:21 PM
If locals you wouldn't think it would be too tough to figure out who. They left a vehicle behind, where did that originate? They had a vehicle and a getaway vehicle too though, why do a bank robbery so close to home? If it's planned to that degree, steal a vehicle and have a getaway vehicle etc.., why "plan" on drawing attention to yourself and possible connections to the McCaan case by commiting a robbery here? Are they that desperate and dumb? If so our RCMP will have em in no time, rest assured. If they don't make arrests very soon.. hmm..., the plot thickens..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 10, 2010, 03:23:54 PM
Dopers need a steady flow of cash.  Probably for years they have been stealing things to sell for quick cash for drugs.  A generator here, a quad there.  Then the folks in the area get fed up, and start talking about and having meetings about thefts.  Probably the dopers have been stealing off campers around the nearby lakes in the summers too.  Folks go out fishing, come back, their microwave is snitched, camera gone, maybe some jewellery on a camper shelf--they blame local kids, and lock the MH door next time.  It is not far to get the stolen goods to Edmonton, Prince George, Kamloops, or Vancouver.  There could be a local 'fence' who is the middleman. Then, for some reason, last summer McCanns are confronted, or whatever did happen, and the McCanns disappear.  Things have gone up several notches now.  Suddenly, the area is on newcasts and front pages and the internet.  Summer tourist traffic is gone, ready supply of victims for b&e's has dried up from all the relentless publicity, desperate ones do desperate things for cash.  Hence, bank robberies.  Sound plausible?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 03:30:02 PM
exactly sounds so pausible that
Quote
Are they that desperate and dumb? If so our RCMP will have em in no time, rest assured.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
I would think if these bank robbers are the perps they sure are drawing attention to themselves alright.They didnt care with MH so why care now. They know how to do this...Winter has set in. people to wise in the area so get other areas now.Cant blame vader on this one. The get away vehicle must be their own..2 bank robberies in area with 3 guys..The area frozen along with winter and they ran out of ideas. The MH thing wont work now.Staying to close to home they would get caught..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 10, 2010, 03:37:23 PM
Right on Superbee!  and "meth heads" for some reason, and moreso than any other drug attic, have "lost their souls".  They have no remorse, no sense of fear, no brain left.  Thus these same three would be in the same circle as Vader.  Most of them take directions from the "supplier".  .... do what they have to!    It always seems to surface that these crimes inevitably lead back to a common source of drug suppliers and their main fences of stolen property. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 10, 2010, 03:39:05 PM
I agree, that is plausible, superbee.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 03:48:54 PM
Here are some more from Edson/peers area. I am going to double check with my friend who works for the Eagle, as to when they occured..but if I remember right, Vader was not arrested yet.. will let you know.

ATM Thefts
Local convenience stores may want to consider better security for their ATM machines.

 

According to Edson RCMP, a privately owned ATM machine, and several drawers holding cigarettes were stolen  from the Esso gas station by two men between the ages of 16 and 30 Tuesday morning.

 

Their vehicle is reportedly a Black Ford extended cab truck either F-2, or 3- 50, with extended mirrors and a black "5th Wheel" towing hitch in the back....The trucks rear wheels were observed to have the aftermarket chrome plates on the mud flaps.

 

Police say a similar occurrance was reported 3 weeks ago at the Peers One Stop where thieves, matching the same description and vehicle, made off with another privately owned ATM Machine.

 

Investigators are asking any witnesses of these incidents to Contact Edson RCMP.
http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=302&cc=249 (http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=302&cc=249)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 03:54:18 PM
ahhh, same one stop store with Bandana Dave on the McCaan video part 2. and the same area where Vader was reportedly seen with two others.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 03:59:00 PM
I think that 5th wheel trailer was taken from vaders parents neighbour? Okay. that was another time.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 04:11:26 PM
so the same truck with the 5th wheel hitch could have pulled that away as well. right next door to Vaders.
Quote
either F-2, or 3- 50, with extended mirrors and a black "5th Wheel" towing hitch in the back....The trucks rear wheels were observed to have the aftermarket chrome plates on the mud flaps.
 

Can't tell me that if this vehicle was from around the vicinity that they don't know who's it is.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
Just heard back from Kevin, and he said one happened 3 months ago, and the other 2 months ago. Now this one in Wildwood.. HMMM see a pattern here.. One a month..So Vader was locked up before this started.. Hmmm.. still could be his buddies that were involved in the McCann case..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 04:52:34 PM
do u think the mccanns MH could of been stripped  of alot of things the perps would of found valuable before burning. I dont know what the police thought that was valuable after a burn but that burn area should of been gone over with a comb, not a shovel..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 05:04:23 PM
I personally do think that everything of value, was taken. We do not know what the McCanns had with them, but hopefully Bret has a rough ides of that. I am sure their wedding rings will be missing, when they are found as well.
I have no idea what the LE are talking about, when they say, that they removed everything of value from the scene, as like you say, the MH was torched..That is why I am wondering, if the perps may have dropped stuff, in their hurry to get away..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 05:19:14 PM
while the perps were hiding with Mh they prob stripped MH of any valuables..prob even the microwave and sink unless i think i saw the sink at burn site on ground.It was never mentioned who,s property MH was burned on either...So why after 5 months gone by with the mccanns are these guys out robbing banks. Havent they heard of a JOB!!!!!!!!!Well at least 3 months..Not much again has been said about their attire ,face masks, hats if any and their voices....Where was the truck stolen from?? AND what kinda weapons did they have???There has to be more on this..the wildwood bank must of had a video too...We should beable to see it. we got to see vader buying beer. why not people robbing a bank..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 05:27:56 PM
I believe they mean everything of any possible evidentiary value.
Quote
I have no idea what the LE are talking about, when they say, that they removed everything of value from the scene,
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 05:44:47 PM
maybe some things during the fire like papers would of flown thru air. saw something onn the ground looking like a page from a book marie had prob been reading..Valuble??? nothing would of been.Sure was sad hearing brets voice on that eagle site edsonmom..Im sure after time reality has hit them that marie and lyle are gone and even with them still missing they have to try to carry on for the grandkids sake..Even their own. Its been hell for them..What gets me is thousands of people are praying..Where is god in all this. He knows the mccanns are suffering..Its sickning to think how the mccanns lives have changed forever now...I know they would of had what if i had only said this, done this, told them to leave cell on etc, etc..May milling shouldnt of been on that road either....All older people like that forestry woman..Maybe police should check that area for people who have been out of jail for awhile..people who are repeaters ..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 06:40:16 PM
Thanks D, that makes sense..blonde moment on my part. lol
I believe they mean everything of any possible evidentiary value.
Quote
I have no idea what the LE are talking about, when they say, that they removed everything of value from the scene,

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 06:53:29 PM
LOL. edsonmom. now we know that u are blonde :)..These guys are said to be between 16-30. dont sound like perps to me..BUT what we are thinking and who they really are may be quite different..and there were 3 bank robbers. Doubt a 16 yr old involved.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 07:11:02 PM
Lol Mindy.. Blonde haired, green eyed monster   ;)

I feel for the McCanns, I would not wish this on my worst enemy. No one should have to deal with such a horrible event..
They already missed both Lyle & Marie's Birthdays, as well as Thankgiving, and now Christmas..
May the new year, bring them the answers they so desperately need, to find closure in their lives..

I think the hardest part, is watching them come to terms, that their parents are no longer with us, They went from talking about them in the present tense, to the past tense. I guess this is part of the healing process, but how can one ever heal, when there is always the unanswered "what if" questions..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 10, 2010, 07:37:41 PM
Quote
I think the hardest part, is watching them come to terms, that their parents are no longer with us, They went from talking about them in the present tense, to the past tense. I guess this is part of the healing process, but how can one ever heal, when there is always the unanswered "what if" questions..

Unfortunately Edsonmom, I can relate. When a loved one is lost and never found, or even in the event that they are found, but with no answers and no justice, I'm not sure there is ever any true healing. There is a kind of slow acceptance. I believe that to an extent time does heal, in that with the passage of time, the pain lessens although never far away.

It's so hard for those left behind when a loved one(s) vanishes without a trace. In my opinion almost impossible to stop 'searching' no matter how much time has passed.

This holiday season will likely be terribly hard for the McCann children/family. My thoughts will be with them. I hope somehow they will find a measure of peace.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 10, 2010, 07:55:30 PM
In the back of our minds I think we all knew the day would come, it would have been somewhat better for the McCaans to have had closure before christmas, and a lot of people including us did try, but alas it wasn't to be. Sometimes life is just like that, healing is a more a private matter than what we have been doing here but in some ways maybe its important to know that while they take their own time to grieve that someone will still be watching!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 10, 2010, 08:10:56 PM

Sometimes life is just like that, healing is a more a private matter than what we have been doing here but in some ways maybe its important to know that while they take their own time to grieve that someone will still be watching!

I agree D1. Healing is more a private matter. Each of us deals with things differently and in our own time. I hope the McCanns know how many people care and support them through all of this even though most have never met them.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 08:35:07 PM
If u listen to bret on the eagle site it is so heart breaking..They have gone thru I pray we never have to..Watching trudy with her daughter in van was heart wrenching too. How can they ever feel good again..The mccann house sits there waiting for their return. I hope someone is staying there...I feel blessed to of been a part of this and have learned alot from this. I miss my own grandparents but now look at elders as all my grandparents.. Always have loved elderly people..This really hit home especially knowing they were coming to abbotsford and I live about 1 1/2 miles from the airport...BUT I have heard of so many missing from around here..Still so sad but for some reason the mccanns have my heart...Not giving up because the answer is coming...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 10, 2010, 08:43:04 PM
Quote
I miss my own grandparents but now look at elders as all my grandparents.. Always have loved elderly people..

I think this is what so many are feeling Mindy. We all have/had parents and grandparents and that is why this is so real - I think we can all relate. We know this could happen to any one of us. I think a nightmare that there is no waking up from.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 09:03:59 PM
Have u noticed the Mccann page has gone so cold that a AL is filling it up with other stuff. Well it sounds like bret is going to try to move on and I guess what else can he do..Theres not to much more we can do either with winter here and no new tips in..The biggest thing is the wildwood robbery and hoping these are the perps.Sure will be thinking of the Mccanns at christmas..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 10, 2010, 09:08:24 PM
Debbiec:  Well, if you love elderly people, then you'll love me.

Well it's time to get ready for Christmas for most of us, and I wish each and everyone a peaceful and relaxing time away from all that troubles us, and a brighter New Year ahead.
Peace
JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 09:19:35 PM
I see what you are saying Deb, and agree.. With out answers, there is always that little bit of hope, in the back of your head, telling you to keep looking, even though, you know in your mind, they may never be found. And knowing Bret, in the way, I was blessed to get to know him, with him living only a few hours from the area, he will be out there, as often as he can, searching for clues. A horrible way to live, for sure.

D, Very well put!!  With as hard, as the Holiday season, will be on the McCann family, it may also bring a great deal of healing to this family. A chance to remember all of the Christmas's before.  They know, that they have thousands of people supporting them, but you are right, they need time to themselves. They have been thrown into the spot light, early in to this, and took it upon themselves, over a 7 week span, to search for Lyle & Marie. There is only so much a body can handle, and we all know how emotionally drained Bret & Family were starting to look. Maybe having a break from it all, over the winter, will bring a new determination, in the spring. 
I know I for one, will be talking to Bret, to see if I can help, if they do go back out to search, as I know the area so well, that I may be able to take them in some area's that they are not aware of..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 10, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Good Job Edsonmom:  The McCann's need people like you.  Have a wonderful Christmas.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 10, 2010, 09:42:54 PM
Thanks Jelly, at least then, I can feel like I am "helping" instead of just sitting behind the scenes, trying to figure this out..!! You have a wonderful Christmas as well  :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 10, 2010, 10:07:44 PM
hey. If we arent going to be on here much Im going to miss everyone but blessings to u all and the mccanns. Anything new comes up let everyone know. still will check here ....MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL HERE AND THE MCCANNS..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 12:34:33 AM
Merry Christmas to everyone.  Each and everyone of you have sure put a lot of effort into this thread.

In reading the last few pages to catch up, I noticed that the main focus is on who else was involved.  It has occurred to me, what if TV is guilty of something, and what if, he knows that there is no one else to tell on him, because he has eliminated that person as well?  Doubt if he will be able to keep quiet forever. 
I do believe that the McCann's will be found, before Christmas, that is my prayer for the McCann family, Amen.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 02:44:53 AM
Amen..there is still hope, there are still leads, possibilities of new suspects have shown up in the area, pictures are being taken, there are site members on here who live around there, its not over..

We have identified several issues that may have to be addressed at some point but for now Christmas is on the doorstep and we should leave the McCaans to their family time. Vigilance is in order though.. ears open, never know when something might turn up.. Holidays will slow things down, people have their own lives to live, but keep checking back ya'll.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: just sayin on December 11, 2010, 06:36:20 AM
Again I'm a little late to the party,but I just want to comment that as for the MH being memorable,down a rural road,on a long weekend in July in Alberta is not that possible.

In Alberta those huge mh's are NOT uncommon....
Almost everyone has some sort of rv and the exodus into those areas on a long weekend is freakin crazy...(July long is the most popular)..some of those western back road areas turn into small cities with campers/quaders ect. You can see them from the highways.(and it's free)

As for small robberies....it is also not uncommon in these small town either. Probally every weekend some where is hit...it just not publicized. The cops just come...take info..maybe take pictures,copies of video and prints and thats it...it could be locals but usually its thugs from the city,wanna be gang members or reserves thinking they won't get recognized.

As for coveralls with strips..thats all you can buy.Its the industry standard. And yes most guys have a pair or 2...since most Albertain guys have worked in the oil patch at least once in their life...you can probally find a pair in every third pick up truck.Most popular is blue..

AND its not the wild west out here....most people still don't lock their doors and leave their keys in their vehicles..

Happy Holidays :)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 07:45:26 AM
Just Saying: Thanks very much for setting we city people straight about crime in rural areas. Also about the number of MH's off main highways. Most of us don't even bother reporting crimes, that is so true, in the city as well.   Happy and safe holidays to you as well. 8)

JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 12:54:05 PM
Nice bit of background info just sayin, There may be something to the latest robbery but it might not be what we think either.
Quote
As for small robberies....it is also not uncommon in these small town either. Probally every weekend some where is hit...it just not publicized. The cops just come...take info..maybe take pictures,copies of video and prints and thats it...it could be locals but usually its thugs from the city,wanna be gang members or reserves thinking they won't get recognized.

The earlier atm robberies may have been connected to either Vader and co. or to these same bank robbers but no guarantees. There are vehicles involved that should provide clues to narrow that down. Hopefully the police are not treating any of this as unconnected, irrelevant, and business as usual.

It is a little strange that a group would pick this location given what went on and the amount of attention directed on that area.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 01:46:20 PM
DI: I think the perps are from a larger city.  Unaware as to what happened to the McCann's. I don't believe the perp's in the McCann case would rob in that area.  In fact, they probably would avoid that area altogether. City criminals know that it is easier to get away with robbing in rural areas, less cops, less witnesses, no traffic, etc, etc.  Easy and fast pickings.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
I too think the perps in the latest robbery are from a larger centre, the vehicle left behind near the bank should be able to confirm that. I doubt they didn't know of and about the McCaans though. What if the perps in the McCaans disappearance weren't even all from around there?

Quote
Unaware as to what happened to the McCann's. I don't believe the perp's in the McCann case would rob in that area.  In fact, they probably would avoid that area altogether.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 11, 2010, 02:14:54 PM

For what it's worth, my two cents worth....


Our ability to rationalize and have remorse is what got us to the top of the food chain.

Therefore, when we're wracking our brains trying to "think like a killer" we have to stop thinking like "US" and think of behaviours commonly associated with lower-level thinking animals - like primates and dogs. 

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 02:17:30 PM
In the McCann case, I believe that at least one of them is from that area.  But, we are talking about a large area.  Example, Vader was wanted for a gun incident in Barrhead. They travel around these small towns.  So to these types of Yahoo's they know these areas very well.  But with the latest robberies, just by the description of the car, it sounds like it is from a larger centre. (somehow - at least IMO) I agree Mom, they want their drugs, and will do anything to get it.  But the masks and outfits were planned - and they did get away. So it was not impulsive thing on their part. Robbing in larger centres has many pitfalls. Cameras, cops, traffic and potential witnesses. Outskirts, fewer people, miles of highway, no traffic, few cops, and few cameras (they word disguises anyway)  So, I would not feel very safe living in the country right now, with these guys out looking for their next hit.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 02:18:49 PM
Mom...Sounds like they shouldn't be that difficult to catch then..  ???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 02:24:44 PM
This was not impulsive, as those high on meth and needed a fix and took the first opportunity. They wore masks, etc, and they did get away.  this was planned.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
like what was said about the overalls with reflection lights on them and being used in the oil patches.. That could be a clue right there OR unless common with farmers al over alberta..I dont think the 2 guys 16-30 yrs old have anything to do with the mccanns but the wildwood and whitecourt ones may have..Like D1 said , finding out where the stolen vehicle was from will surely tell..didnt heear of stolen vehicle with whitecourt robbery..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 04:00:05 PM
OMG.  Oh for the joys of peaceful country living.  The peacefulness, the sense of belonging, the feel of small towns folk  being your good friend and neighbor.  The security and serenity of it all.!! (Just joking) ;)

JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: wenchette on December 11, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
Jellybean...that was one of the "used-to-be's"...SIGH!!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 04:15:26 PM
Bottom Line Is!
Where Are Lyle and Marie McCann? 
SOS....Calling all ideas for where Lyle and Marie McCann can be located.... SOS
Call Crimestoppers now... it is a free call, your calling number is none traceable
1-800-222-8477  (TIPS)
Set yourself free!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 04:28:29 PM
Quote
I also wouldn't put it past a methhead to strick close to home. When they have a need, familiar territory is more comfortable as they've probably watched from a distance to know when the banks are the most vulnerable. jmho

That would seem logical, would also seem logical that it would make them easier to be caught. Will be watching and waiting... if the cops can't solve this if these are locals, how can they solve the McCaans?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 05:00:53 PM
that was cool talents. I copy/pasted that to my facebook status..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 06:05:41 PM
Apologies Talents. I wanted to give an example and went off topic but I know I'm not the only one. I think I got yelled at.

Sorry not intended as yelling, and not aimed at you or anyone else, just my hyper side of ADDHD.
Trying to draw attention back to finding the McCann's.  I called in about a hunch I had, and the person who took my call at Edson RCMP was very nice, and more than obliging, but the bottom line was, "Do you know where the McCann's are?"   If I'd a been a psychic, or what ever, she was ready and willing and able to take any information that tells them, where the McCann's are.  I hope that this will stir someone to call with that information, be it one of the gang, a neighbour who has noticed something, anyone who knows.   My apologies if I have sounded harsh, with the lettering etc...    I would like to post it every once in a while, because I think the threads are being read by all kinds of people.  Hope it won't annoy any one.  Just a heads up.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 06:26:00 PM
they are just looking for facts now..It just shows they have nothing....psychics couldnt help either..Today I got pinned under a warf..Think they,d check that,, doubt it..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 06:31:21 PM
OR In a old well with wood over top.somewhere under wood...Near water....not calling that in without a spot but its coming..UGH!!! frusterating.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 06:34:41 PM
they are just looking for facts now..It just shows they have nothing....psychics couldnt help either..Today I got pinned under a warf..Think they,d check that,, doubt it..
Are there any docks, around these lakes, ie Minnow Lake, Chip Lake, etc... or up by Hinton along the river even up North of Niton, or Peers?  There will be wooden railway trussels too in some places.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 06:47:45 PM
Who had the winding road, thing.... ?
The river winds, and winds some more, just north of Peers. 
Sure do wish I lived out there, and had a bottomless bank account, I'd be all over it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 06:50:29 PM
waiting for the body of water or well as i saw twisted entangled legs months ago. muddy.glasses would be on the ground..maybe even under a old upside down boat..Wood boat..old...by water anyhow.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 06:52:34 PM
talents. I had gotten a squiggle arrow, poss road..what was your hunch. close to anything i said. anyhow the arrow leads to where they are..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 06:55:24 PM
actually had seen a squiggle arrow pointing to a off road off forestry rd off 16 heading to athabasca river too.maybe to far out??The arrow is pointing down. where ever its a sign of a road or that the mccanns are down, below.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 07:30:20 PM
RR132....thats what I got just now but have had that before..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 11, 2010, 08:53:08 PM
Well if we are down to our last hail mary before xmas, someone get me a scoop of the ashes from under the wood pile fire where the cabin fire was N of Niton on July 12th, I got a guy who runs a dna lab who will run it for free.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 09:12:24 PM
Cute D1..We are at our last ray of hope.. I would think that place is cleaned up now but who knows. Depends on the owners insurance ..Ya. scope that ash and I bet u may find something..BUT bodies dont completely burn.Did the police go thru it all.. Sounded like they werent to into it...That big truck on property. was that a gas or oil truck. why didnt the owner burn that too???and his summer table and umbrella. doubt he was thinking of socializing again but guess im wrong.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 09:19:23 PM
When a person or persons go missing, not only is this a heartbreak, it also creates a legal limbo. Especially with missing adults.  If they own property, bonds, stocks - everything is stuck!! Stuck in a time warp, which adds further stress to families.Young "widows" cannot collect a pension unless they can have their loved one declared deceased.  And that is not an easy thing to do in the courts. Homes, cars cannot be sold.  It places even unfair and further stress upon families.  To my mind, it is always important that the remains of those missing are found not only for closure (God forbid, that would be of some help) but for legal purposes so that they can handle the affairs of their loved ones and move on.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 11, 2010, 09:26:06 PM
Just something else to point out, that only people in this area would know.

These are the locations where the RCMP cover, from Stony plain to Jasper..

Stony covers all of Stony & west to the Wabaman area.
Entwistle covers The west side of Wabaman, Entwhistle, Half way to Drayton Valley, & Wildwood.
Edson covers West of Wildwood, to Obed summit, (15 km from Hinton), and half way to White court.
Hinton covers West of Obed summit to 15 KM out side Jasper, and half way to Grand Cash.
Jasper covers where Hinton leaves off, to BC border, and half way to the ice feilds.

With both the peers & wildwood robberies, the perps (if local) would know, that they would have enough time to get away, before RCMP got called out there, as they are both area's that RCMP don't hang out in, and would take a good 10 to 15 min for them to get to either location. So I feel this is local job..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 09:36:07 PM
Thought about the Mccann home etc too..Someone has to be staying in it.I have no idea of what they do in a situation like this. I would think advising a lawyer would be good as far as bills, loans etc...So much is in the air. A very trying time for the family alright.Most likely wildwood and whitecourt robberies are locals..Hope they catch them. What ever goes on its getting these people to talk tho. No none wants to talk but if they search their homes and property they may find something..Especially in the get away vehicle...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 09:38:03 PM
Edsonmom:  I guess you are right.  I wonder though if, LOL, our city crooks go to the country to avoid traffic, multiple cruisers, cameras etc.  And country thieves come to the city for a bigger haul. Just joking.  I know that this is not a funny matter. I am astonished as to the amount of crime in rural areas.  And you have less protection. Due to the vast areas, and the distances that RCMP have to travel.

JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 11, 2010, 09:52:19 PM
Well if we are down to our last hail mary before xmas, someone get me a scoop of the ashes from under the wood pile fire where the cabin fire was N of Niton on July 12th, I got a guy who runs a dna lab who will run it for free.
Way to go D1, I sure hope someone out there will go get the scoop... of ashes. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 11, 2010, 10:02:55 PM
Crime rate for B&E's  & drugs are bad in small towns.. and that is the reason why, to many locals, know where the cops hang, and the area's they cover.. It is not hard to get away with things. Edson residents mostly know shift change & coffee break times for our detatchment, so it is easy for criminals to commit crimes during these times..Any small town, would get to know the routine of their local force.

Edsonmom:  I guess you are right.  I wonder though if, LOL, our city crooks go to the country to avoid traffic, multiple cruisers, cameras etc.  And country thieves come to the city for a bigger haul. Just joking.  I know that this is not a funny matter. I am astonished as to the amount of crime in rural areas.  And you have less protection. Due to the vast areas, and the distances that RCMP have to travel.

JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 11, 2010, 10:27:43 PM
Maybe we should start a new thread, re crime in rural areas.  We can post in them, and it would be an education to all, as well, some of the perps may get the picture that people are being more alert, etc, etc. The robberies with the 3 yahoos in coveralls could be placed there for starters. And in a round about way, it may also be useful to the RCMP.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 10:48:53 PM
the prob with those rural areas is what edsonmom said. The time it takes for the police to get to the scene....Well at least we have something re: 3 perps robbing banks.....Other than that dont know but what i have been getting over again. Did see a wood pile but it was like planks of old wood standing up this time....Not fire wood...I just talked to a friend in the states who is a seer prophet. she said all she gets is darkness and prob buried...Would make sense buried as the perps had time to bury them. Dont know what the ground is like there but doubt they just happened to carry big shovels with them so they would to have gotten them..MH wouldnt have a shovel but who knows what lyle carried.. For sure a axe...Well if he carries what we do then theres nothing to dig a hole and dependiong hoe deep they wanted to go...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
as I said before. We need someone up there. edsonmom. You real close to there?? wouldnt be good now on those icey roads .You have a friend that works at the eagle? maybe they can can go get some ash and send to D!....I have to talked to a couple of people at the eagle..Wonder if they wpould too BUT would it be legal..going onto someones property getting ashes....Wouldnt weather of hampered those ashes too..So wet and now useless? Even ashes from MH burn site???Wasnt there even fott prints around those areas especially at minnowlake..I have also talked to a david guy on panorama where u upload photos. He had some of the area. He was in the area July 4th /10..He didnt see nothing and he was on back roads mostly north of 16....nice guy....Still waiting for forbes to message me back..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 11:07:20 PM
Yes, I do work in Edmonton doing WCB consulting for employers. I've spoken with the police several times and they know all the details but they haven't searched my property. From what I hear, the McCann's are probably not close to where Vader lives but are probably in B.C. (where he may have gone to buy drugs). It is unlikely my property was used for anything other than stealing my 87 Nissan Multi (silver). I suspect its' been crushed now because I gave it up to the wrecker after forensic's was done with it. At any rate, I hope they find them soon.


   Last thing forbes sent me......
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 11, 2010, 11:17:48 PM
Curtis Forbes, 4 days ago, said:

I don't know if they did search my property but they are aware of the connection to Vader. The RCMP told me my car was in the yard of the farm where Vader was arrested the day after I was at the property so it is pretty likely that he took the car. I imagine we'll get it sorted in court eventually.


   Did get this message  just now but came as it says 4 days ago..Just another victim of vader...Well at least I know someone up there..lol...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 12, 2010, 12:49:12 AM
Are the RCMP even investigating any of the robberies around there? Or has that all been sidelined for unknown reasons? You have ATM robberies over in the Pees area before the McCaans and there are vehicle descriptions in that. You have a robbery over in Wildwood with a stolen vehicle recovered. The source of that vehicle is something that can't be secreted. It tells some kind of a story. Are we even going to hear anymore or will those little clues all get secreted away by the RCMP along with everything else?

The secrecy is the problem, it is too much, too pervasive, and stops anyone else, organization or otherwise, from putting the pieces together to solve any of this. The RCMP assume full obligation for the case by that and we expect them to put out a little info when required in order to get a little info.

If they haven't solved the bank robbery, release the vehicle description and source location, ask the public for assistance, who saw what ?

Same with the vehicle Vader drove to Edmonton, if you really want to know where he was and where the McCaans may be, you have to give specific information on the vehicle you want the public to recall if you want them to report it. If you want everyone to shut up and for the case to remain unsolved, the Police are doing a bangup job!

Hey, maybe it was even Forbes little Nissan that Vader drove over to Edmonton, where's that vehicle, crushed..!!

Tired of the bull...

From EMom..
Quote
With both the peers & wildwood robberies, the perps (if local) would know, that they would have enough time to get away, before RCMP got called out there, as they are both area's that RCMP don't hang out in, and would take a good 10 to 15 min for them to get to either location. So I feel this is local job..

If this is a local job, it is a relatively small sparse population that has brought three people together, there is familiarity between them, organization, families, past employers, neighbours, gas stations, bar tenders etc.. They have vehicles, they are seen together, missing at the same time together etc.. You can't live and hide in the rural areas anymore, thats more an illusion IMO. There are no secrets in a small town, the rumour mill moccasin telegraph etc, all operate like a well oiled machine, little if any thing goes unnoticed. You go to the city to hide nowadays.

There are other ways to know the local police schedule other than being a local, just ask Vader for one.. Ask any cop for another..

There should be no guess work here as to whether these people are from the local area or whether they have any involvement with Vader.

Maybe the McCaan's should just hire the HA with the 60 grand? ahh maybe not..probably no difference.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 12, 2010, 11:43:25 AM
When a person or persons go missing, not only is this a heartbreak, it also creates a legal limbo. Especially with missing adults.  If they own property, bonds, stocks - everything is stuck!! Stuck in a time warp, which adds further stress to families.Young "widows" cannot collect a pension unless they can have their loved one declared deceased.  And that is not an easy thing to do in the courts. Homes, cars cannot be sold.  It places even unfair and further stress upon families.  To my mind, it is always important that the remains of those missing are found not only for closure (God forbid, that would be of some help) but for legal purposes so that they can handle the affairs of their loved ones and move on.
  Jelly Bean, bless your heart for thinking of all these things.  Hopefully the McCann's had a Financial Power of Attorney named, that should come into effect if they are unable to take care of their financial affairs, and in this case it should come into effect, so the family can take care of some of those things, or who is named as such.  I know we have alerted all our family and friends about aside from getting a will, you need to have this power of attorney over your finances, and one separate one for your health, in case you come to a point where you cannot or are deemed not able to do so yourself, otherwise the government will step in and take over, on both counts, depending how entwined the two are. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 02:54:36 PM
forbes car was stolen on the 18th D1 so no possibility that he had it on the 4th...He had to of stolen the vehicle he got to his sisters with..Not all the vehicles vader stole had any sign of him in the like the SUV unless burnt or cops havent revealed what was in SUV.....I have asked some else in the states I know that is very prophetic...Just waiting for answer...Why does sherwood park keep popping up. Thats just a little east of edmonton...I think its time to get in some peoples faces now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 12, 2010, 03:23:51 PM
Forbes didn't live on that property and may not have been watching that close, who says Vader didn't steal it before and forbes never knew? I'm just using it as an example, there could be a trail to follow out there if we only knew where to start?

Sherwood Park is where alot of the victims of the Edmonton serial killer were dumped.

Vader went off to Edmonton immediately after the McCaan's went missing to hide out. How close do sis and foster mom live to Sherwood Park?



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 12, 2010, 03:35:16 PM
forbes car was stolen on the 18th D1 so no possibility that he had it on the 4th...He had to of stolen the vehicle he got to his sisters with..Not all the vehicles vader stole had any sign of him in the like the SUV unless burnt or cops havent revealed what was in SUV.....I have asked some else in the states I know that is very prophetic...Just waiting for answer...Why does sherwood park keep popping up. Thats just a little east of edmonton...I think its time to get in some peoples faces now..
How is he so sure it wasn't missing before the 18th,  since he doesn't live there, and when was the last time he was there.  I think it may well have been stolen since the last time he was there.  Just from recall, I remember that the 18th was the day that he noticed it was gone.  Do you still have that message.  Forbes' vehicle may well have been gone for weeks or months.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 04:02:58 PM
tracks were fresh talents.he has a house on there and is there alot but just not yr round.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 12, 2010, 04:44:17 PM
tracks were fresh talents.he has a house on there and is there alot but just not yr round.
Okay, I realize now, and what about the quad tracks.  Didn't he mention quad tracks too?  For one a quad and a small trailer can do a lot, of motoring. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 05:35:13 PM
just mentioned a quad which means someone else must of been on the back with him. someone to drive quad back and the stolen car..bulmer on 751 sure was just down the road from forbes place..What parts of a acreage would be fenced. How do u fence 160 acres and a fence vader could cut.wire type?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 07:25:33 PM
that sure would cost alot to do160 acres in wire or even in partial. Vader must of known this place to know to being wire cutters..Not sure how long forbes has had this place but very aware of vader...He must of known forbes wasnt there.You,d think vader had stolen from everyone already.Bulmer would of known vader was being sought after too and poss involved in the missing Mccanns. SO why did he allow vader in his house knowing this..I would of slammed the door in his face..Im sure vader and bulmer talked too. Bulmer would know if vader was involved..You dont let vader in and not ask questions...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 12, 2010, 07:49:49 PM
D, According to Esther's facebook page, she moved in Early Sept. I had heard, when TV was supposed to be staying with her, she lived on the North East side of the city, how close to Sherwood Park, I don't know. I have been trying to find an updated addy for her, but am having no luck.. Still looking though..

Quote
Esther R Mckay-croswell
Going crazy trying to move hope I can find some help

September 8 at 11:29am via Mobile Web
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 12, 2010, 07:53:09 PM
Mindy, Most people have barb wired fences, it is no uncommon there, that is all you see when you drive through that area. Barb wire, is cheaper to use, as well as it is mostly ment to keep cows from getting out of the feilds..

that sure would cost alot to do160 acres in wire or even in partial. Vader must of known this place to know to being wire cutters..Not sure how long forbes has had this place but very aware of vader...He must of known forbes wasnt there.You,d think vader had stolen from everyone already.Bulmer would of known vader was being sought after too and poss involved in the missing Mccanns. SO why did he allow vader in his house knowing this..I would of slammed the door in his face..Im sure vader and bulmer talked too. Bulmer would know if vader was involved..You dont let vader in and not ask questions...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 07:59:38 PM
edsonmom: your talking sherwood park now. I mentioned that place earliar on tonight. Dont know why that place came to me but what does vader have to do with this place. missed something along the way..Who is esther??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Edsonmom on December 12, 2010, 08:14:00 PM
Esther is Bobbi-jo's foster mom.. D1 was wondering if Bobbi-jo, and foster mom lived close to Sherwood Park.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 08:18:12 PM
Really dont know. She just says edmonton. Sherwood park is close to highway 16..Check her other last name in the yellowpages. ?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 12, 2010, 08:21:59 PM
Item of interest about the McCann's RV.
Just from the pictures of a Sun voyager Gulf Stream Gas RV, it appears that one could get to the bathroom with little to know problem, with all the slides pulled in, there is still plenty of room.  It appears there are a set of bunks with fabric covers over the ports, located in the middle of the RV. 
There is a lot to scavange from a vehicle like this.  Generators, pumps, converters, all the electrical appliances and televisions, stereo systems, washer, dryer, etc..... If you where trying to sell this kind of thing, where would you sell it?
http://www.generalrv.com/rvs/Gulf-Stream-RV/Sun-Voyager-_-Gas/Motor-Home-Class-A.aspx (http://www.generalrv.com/rvs/Gulf-Stream-RV/Sun-Voyager-_-Gas/Motor-Home-Class-A.aspx)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 08:32:45 PM
cant find no sztupovszky in edmonton but a gabor in summerland and a mike in oliver. woth that last name...What was bobbies stepmoms last name ??
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 08:45:18 PM
theres a E.VADER IN SHERWOOK PARK..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 12, 2010, 08:52:17 PM
Esther is Bobbi-jo's foster mom.. D1 was wondering if Bobbi-jo, and foster mom lived close to Sherwood Park.
  There are two numbers for her, but no address. 
She is on plenty of fish says her sign is Cancer,  and I think this is the same person, on My Space, says she is a Leo, Wiccan Religion, and some very interesting pictures. 
http://www.myspace.com/gypsydragonstar/photos/10876994#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A10877101%7D (http://www.myspace.com/gypsydragonstar/photos/10876994#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A10877101%7D)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 12, 2010, 08:52:42 PM
*giggles uncontrollably for 5 minutes* I am sorry... E. Vader...... *starts all over again. I am just gonna take a time out now...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 08:54:22 PM
s&j vader in sherwood park too. giggling??why?? lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 12, 2010, 09:33:50 PM
It takes all kinds of people to make a country.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 12, 2010, 09:47:42 PM
Is Vader still in jail, or out on bail?  I cannot recall what he was charged with.  He was wanted by the police, and one charge had something to do with a gun in Barrhead.   Not, the McCann's.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 12, 2010, 10:05:25 PM
vader has tons of charges, weapons, arson, threats, theft etc etc.. They all have to be put in one file and dealt with in one court. Wouldnt make sense to hop from one court room to another..city to city....Takes time I guess. He not out as far as I know but its possible as he has been let go before.....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 02:45:18 AM
Interesting Esther has moved maybe Bobbie Jo next? What a pile..

The McCaans didn't come expecting to have to clean up all the wrongdoing and chase down every bank robbery suspect in the area to find their folks and shouldn't have to. What happened to that force of 20 full time dedicated investigators? Was that just for the camera's, then back to business as usual?

They came looking for Vader long before the McCaans went missing but Vader somehow managed to stay out of jail and just got worse. Then Vader disappears for the same amount of time the motorhome goes unreported. Then he virtually puts a target on his own head and drives the McCaans suv around town, like come and get me. They eventually do, same department that supposedly couldn't find him before. The Vaders say he wasn't hard to find!
Maybe its time the cops gave out a little more for xmas themselves unless they have something of their own to hide?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 13, 2010, 05:14:04 AM
Talents, if it were a few small things I might try a pawnshop. In BC you are on video tape, the tapes kept for quite awhile, and the stuff cannot be sold for 2 months.  It is kept in the backroom of the pawnshop in case the police come looking, so it's riskier now . If I were a doper, I might try trading the stolen items for drugs.  I am now thinking about auction businesses.  In BC you can take stuff to the auction place and they will buy the things for cash. I don't know if ID needs to be shown.  An auction place may now be an easier way to dispose of items than a pawnshop? Does anyone know if there is a trailer hitch, or was, or signs of a removable hitch on the back bumper of the McCann's recovered SUV?  Stolen items from the MH may have been taken away in a trailer hitched to their SUV after the McCanns were overtaken, and before their MH got to the campground.  It may have been stripped already, in another place, when the park attendant knocked on its door. He would have been shocked to have the door open on a stripped-down MH.  I wonder if the McCann children know if any of the things in their parent's MH--tv, dvd, generator, etc. were engraved or marked in some way? Did Vader take some items to Edmonton, when he saw his sister?  And maybe the McCann SUV pulled a trailer of items stolen from their MH up to Prince George?  The stolen McCann items sold or swapped in PG for drugs?  With the locals around Vader 's turf getting fed up with thieves, maybe Vader and co. had to change to stealing from travellers and campers? It would be interesting and helpful to know if there were alot more thefts from the MHs and vehicles of travellers, and from the camping public at the various fishing lakes and campgrounds.  And for every theft reported, how many were not?  Also, wasn't there a sense of LE indifference at first, when the McCann MH was found burning?  Like it happened alot in that area? Not that big of a deal....

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 13, 2010, 07:29:54 AM
Yes...the Pawn shops usually work with the police.   At least the one in my town does. 
Now, auctions are a different thing I think.    I know of a thief (several years back) that would take his stolen goods to the country auction.   Not the big ones in town, but the one out in the boonies.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 10:45:11 AM
If no stolen items have showed up by now, they aren't going to. Yes, Police usually work hand in hand with the pawn shops, as well as a few other organizations.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 13, 2010, 10:53:20 AM
i was giggling because when you say E. Vader aloud.. what does it sound like...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
ANNA: ahahahahha. that is to funny alright. no wonder u had to take a break..E.vader...evader...yup..funny. lol
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 13, 2010, 03:16:27 PM

Five months since McCanns disappeared

Every Christmas, Bret McCann and his family gathered with relatives at his parent’s home in St. Albert.

His mother cooked huge meals that attracted hungry relatives from Vancouver and Calgary for the festive occasion.

But this year, Bret’s Christmas plans have changed drastically.

It’s been five months since his parents, Lyle McCann, 78, and Marie McCann, 77, disappeared after fuelling up their motor home in St. Albert for a trip to Abbotsford, B.C.

With still no trace of his folks, Bret expects the holidays won’t have much cheer.

“This whole summer and fall has been an ordeal. We are assuming something terrible has happened to my parents, but we are still going to seek some closure on this,” said Bret, who is hosting Christmas dinner at his house this year.

“Everyone will be enjoying Christmas and it’s going to be difficult for us, but life goes on. We are trying to stay positive and return to a normal life.”

The McCanns were last seen in St. Albert on July 3. The remains of their charred RV were found days later southeast of Edson. Two weeks later, their SUV was discovered in a bush near Carrot Creek, 34 km east of Edson.

Police arrested Travis Vader and later named him a suspect, but he has not been charged in connection to the case, which Mounties say remains active.

The family has been meeting with police every few weeks for updates, but have yet to hear the information they’ve been waiting for.

In late October, a pair of billboards were posted with the McCann’s photos along Highway 16 — near an area where police made an arrest in the case last August.

A $60,000 reward is also still in place for a potential tipster that could help crack the case.

Bret said those billboards have generated some attention, but there has yet to be a call for the reward.

In the meantime, the McCann family continues to receive an outpour of support from the community.

The St. Albert Senior Citizens’ Club has invited the family to attend their annual Christmas lunch on Thursday. The community also held a candlelight vigil in July and helped fundraise for the $60,000 reward.

Bret said the support has been terrific during such a difficult time.

“When we go shopping or to places in St. Albert, there is always somebody that recognizes us and comes over to offer their support,” said Bret, who remains hopeful his parents will be found.

“I’d really like to encourage someone somewhere out there that knows what happened to my parents to call the police or Crime Stoppers.”

pamela.roth@sunmedia.ca

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/12/12/16524646.html (http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/12/12/16524646.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
this is so sad..Im sure there is going to be alot of tears for them.. We will all be thinking of them too christmas morning. I feel so darn angry at what has happened..Just a bunch of gutless people up there..Have no respect for that area at all and the people.Will never be my area of a holiday ever...Just lost my business in any camping places that way...Not everyone is bad up there but theres enough people up there that know and wont talk..Spineless...How can anyone take 2 people like lyle and marie and destroy everything for the Mccanns..aND this is forever. You never get over. Each day you just cope...Get your butts in gear police. If u cant find the mccanns then catch the perps. Get a good criminalologist like BILL PITT and quit PRETENDING YOU CAN HANDLE IT.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 05:44:15 PM
I have a brother that was murdered in the early 1980's the body has never been found. I'm hoping before I leave this earth that his body will be found. He was last known to be in the Edmonton Sherwood Park area. It is really hard to believe that there are so many missing people in Alberta. I'm sure it is probably the same in all Provinces & countries.

 THIS IS A POST BY TOOTALL ON HUMAN REMAINS SITE. LOOK AT SHERWOOD PARK. WHAT IS WITH THIS PLACE..VADERS LIVE THERE..BOBBI TOO? A PLACE WHERE THE PERPS LIVE???? OF LYLE AND MARIE. SHERWOOD PARK NOT TO FAR FROM HIGHWAY 16..NABBED AT A TURNOFF ONTO 16 THEN TAKEN TO NITON. EASIAR TO GO TO HOME TOWN WHERE ITS LESS POPULATED...???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 05:59:35 PM
not much of a trip from sherwood park area to meeting up with mccanns on the turn off from st.albert trail to 16....just happened to meet in same turnoff at the same time?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
from Mindy:
Quote
Get a good criminalologist like BILL PITT and quit PRETENDING YOU CAN HANDLE IT

I second the motion, it was allowed to pass as mistakes twice at the very begining. That may have been more an indicator of incompetance than first thought. The writing is on the billboard for all to see now, it's time for the RCMP to call in outside help! They have killed off most any hopes there were for any resolution.

I have suggested to everyone I know who has to travel through that area this year to seriously consider westjet! Boycott the area altogether, maybe the downturn in the economy will get the locals up in arms enough to demand action. I know it isn' their fault that it happened, but sitting on their asses in silence is.

And condolences to all.



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 07:21:22 PM
it,ll be sad but u know that area just might get a curious type of attention.AND it also can be the most feared stretch of road ever in alberta and people wont travel that road unless armed.....After 5 months of all the bull trying to find the mccanns with no hope and knowing how the police botched up, people will feel helpless on that road for safety..You can call the cops but will they reach u in time. Also stopping at peers etc...You,ll have to leave a picture etc with the owner to prove u were there just in case. Its almost like you have to put up a billboard of yourself before hitting that highway too...I dont fly D1... :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 08:16:08 PM
at least not under the radar !!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 08:24:39 PM
ahahhah..D1.....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
Just a little reminder there is a woman whom we should all take note of, the ctv news crew said "persistant" rumours of Vader driving the suv, another man and a woman characterized as Vader's girlfriend.

She isn't an unknown, everyone and their dog around there likely knows who she is. I would bet the news knows, half the local population has a name, it's Joe public who thinks the RCMP just haven't quite got enough to put the case together yet.

Quote
A woman who answered the phone at the Bulmer residence near Niton Junction, some 70 kilometres west of Edmonton, declined to comment.

Read it on Global News: Travis Vader, linked to missing Alberta couple, one of two men arrested

from- http://www.globalnews.ca/linked+disappearance+elderly+alberta+couple+arrested/3295824/story.html (http://www.globalnews.ca/linked+disappearance+elderly+alberta+couple+arrested/3295824/story.html)

What was Bulmer's phone number again Mindy, maybe everyone should call and wish her a merry xmas. poor thing, boyfriend in jail and all for the holidays...

To me this is like a rerun, that evil thing has claimed numerous victims over the years from the youngest to the oldest. Ever read Kelly Cook? No one thought her killer would never be caught either. No one would believe what they did there and how they got away with it until many many years later. ahhghh
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.msg51063.html#msg51063 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,53.msg51063.html#msg51063)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 09:20:59 PM
will get u number for ya if thats really it but try it.She prob lives there ......
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 09:27:36 PM
J Bulmer
(780)795-2179
Carrot Creek
Niton Junction , AB 


   try this one. theres a few D.bulmers but will get those too..other ones in diff areas. thought i had a d one. what is with stuff that disappears..D Bulmer
(403)886-4013
 My Address Book   Add to Facebook 

D Bulmer
(403)289-2433
1233 18 Ave NW Mn
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Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
URGENT D1 AND EVERYONE. JUST GOT MESSAGE WHERE MCCANNS ARE....GET AHOLD OF ME. STAT..NOT EXACT BUT THIS DOES SAY WHERE THEY ARE. A FARMER THERE WOULD KNOW...SAP..can u get ahold of me PM or capeheart..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 13, 2010, 11:17:42 PM
Ok, go for it, like I said though, someone get me a collection of ashes from under the old wood pile at the Niton cabin fire location while there are still any left too.


Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 13, 2010, 11:33:47 PM
there in jasper. emailed you D1..with location etc..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 13, 2010, 11:41:37 PM
Jasper? JASPER?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 12:12:48 AM
Kelly Dombrowski December 13 at 7:16pm Report
1st I've seen/heard of the picture. But when I looked at it, a picture flashed into my mind of an old, abandoned barn on like a 1930's area depression farm with only the barn remaining standing - maybe some old red paint flaking off of it. Probably off a graveled road that has lost most of its gravel. And perhaps a cistern or old outhouse hole at the back right hand corner, near the trees. Kelly Dombrowski December 13 at 8:14pm Report
David L. Smith December 13 at 11:05pm Report
well, this is odd... I got the word 'Jasper' - when I google searched it, it came up near the spot where they were missing. Looking at Google maps, : http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=jasper+canada+alberta+%22barn%22&rlz=1W1ADFA_en&wrapid=tlif12922986117961&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=jasper+canada+alberta+%22barn%22&rlz=1W1ADFA_en&wrapid=tlif12922986117961&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl)

I'd say to look near a grove of trees where the old barn has like thin area of grass, almost dirt on the right side of the old barn - maybe like a faded dirt driveway that is more like driving across the dirt/grass toward the barn. I saw the woman standing about 10 yrds or so from the man who was closer to the barn, but to the right of it. and danger from the barn. like maybe something hapened to the man 1st.
jasper canada alberta "barn" - Google Maps
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jasper canada alberta "barn" - Google Maps
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Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps
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    THIS IS FROM CREDIBLE PEOPLE....NOT PSYCHICS.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 12:33:20 AM
sounds like mccanns did get some distance but who knows. take over then making them drive further or perps did....See what the mccanns do with it and police...Thinking out of the area is something no one wanted to think about..why do they allow quicksand around. that is dangerous..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 14, 2010, 01:41:40 AM
.... just sticking my nose in a bit here... hope it's ok!  I find myself drawn to the "old roads" off this highway!  here's an example (however, I still have to back off to view behind the trees.  Many of these short little roads have small lakes etc. just behind the trees of the main highway.  I've spotted a few already.

This link has a sign to the right about horses.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&biw=1335&bih=439&q=jasper+alberta&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Jasper,+AB&gl=ca&ei=xRYHTbbEHpHOngfS7ZycDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&biw=1335&bih=439&q=jasper+alberta&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Jasper,+AB&gl=ca&ei=xRYHTbbEHpHOngfS7ZycDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 14, 2010, 03:47:49 AM
Here's where I left off searching for anything the looked possible;  tomorrow I will go back and look at the old pics of the RV and MH and dig again.  Looks like these pics were taken this summer or there about.... hundreds of RV's in action .... I just can't remeber without checking tomorrow what the Mc Canns RV looked like.  Jasper is a possible drive in one day.... especially with a weapon at your head or a lunatic behind the wheel while you locked up.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&biw=1335&bih=439&q=jasper+alberta&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Jasper,+AB&gl=ca&ei=xRYHTbbEHpHOngfS7ZycDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&biw=1335&bih=439&q=jasper+alberta&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Jasper,+AB&gl=ca&ei=xRYHTbbEHpHOngfS7ZycDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 12:39:53 PM
Quicksand isn't all the same, differing densities etc, also if someone was forced in there would be a trail in the mud. It doesn't happen fast, you can't dispose of a body without entraping yourself and a limp body does not struggle enough to go under, remains above for a considerable length of time.

Do keep in mind the latest is but one tip among many, and the tip is even specific to a country location, not right around a town. Placing this tip in context with the rest of what we know, would have led me to assume the farm location would have been closer to Niton. So don't get too far afield IMO.

A far better approach for the McCaans would be to contact all the neighbors from where Bobbie Joe and step mom were living before they move away so far and so long that memories fade. Vader did show up in a vehicle. He came directly to Edmonton the morning after the McCaans went missing, he came from somewhere with someone, and if involved had to dispose of bodies in that time frame enroute A to B. Wanna find the McCaans, first step IMO, find that vehicle, find why its description is being secreted.

Then place the tips in context with what is known to define better search parameters.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 02:04:29 PM
I agree D1 but we also have to think out of the box too..I dont know the distance from niton to this area but then there is the 3rd and 4th of the MH and SUV missing until it arrived at minnowlake...Traveling out of the area is very possible or the mccanns did get close to that jasper lodge area..We dont know ...With no tips coming in this one does give the area....I have no idea of what was given for tips but a searcher just said the psychics were useless not able to really give a location..This one does and I hope they follow up on it..The thing is this info is not from a psychic..I know unless u can actually show them exactly where the bodies are all sounds psychic.....but a very good description of where they the mccanns are in this tip..We are and the mccanns so used to the niton area and havent been able to think out of the area..The perps may of hidden in the jasper area on that abandoned farm..who is going to notice that..Maybe it hid out while SUV was off to PG and when they got back they picked the MH up and headed back  where they ended at minnowlake.They werent going to drive MH to PG so just left it there while taking SUV on a joy ride..Sounds like perps knew of this abandoned farm..Traveling that far with MH is hard to beleive no one saw it but havent seen google back roads around that jasper lodge area...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 02:24:48 PM
Have to fit Vader into the time window somehow too or everything we think we know is out the window. He showed up in Edmonton next morning..By all indication his origin of travel was from the Niton area. I'm not saying it couldn't be as the (non psychic/ psychic says) just that it has to fit with known accepted facts too.
 
If there was a known track record for the person/s supplying the info, that would be a further confirming point. Without we are stuck with the illusion valid or otherwise, of a one time only or first time out vision or guess?

I,m not big on this stuff just my own experience. I've heard good things about it but never seen it myself, kinda like having a ufo experience I suppose, hear they are out there too.

For those that do weight the balance of probability more in that direction, all the power too you should there be something too it. I don't see pushing this too hard for the McCaans to become involved, this is more in the do it yourself and come up with something first category.

I will have to step aside on this one..Everyone has to determine for themselves how far outside the box they want to go.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 02:39:56 PM
who has that link of trudy in vancouver???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 04:24:07 PM

Just because Bobbi-Jo said Travis was in Edmonton that morning, does NOT mean he was.
Her "story" is NOT a fact.
I am not an expert, but I do not believe a blood relative's statement can be used as an alibi in a court of law - for obvious reasons, there's a conflict of interest.
For Bobbi-Jo to state that he was in Edmonton with her, causes confusion for "us" because then (as Mindy says) we're not thinking outside of the box.... we assume he was in Edmonton and couldn't possibly have been elsewhere.

In my opinion, we should focus on the facts and not get distracted with the "garbage" out there to clutter our minds.

The old apple doesn't fall far from the tree..... why would Bobbi-Jo tell the truth?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 04:35:25 PM
There is more than one person involved in the alibi, bobbie joe and esther, two seperate residences, two seperate people, multiple neighbours, multiple potential witnesses. Like I said, everyone has to weigh it out in their own minds.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 14, 2010, 04:37:39 PM

Just because Bobbi-Jo said Travis was in Edmonton that morning, does NOT mean he was.
Her "story" is NOT a fact.
I am not an expert, but I do not believe a blood relative's statement can be used as an alibi in a court of law - for obvious reasons, there's a conflict of interest.
For Bobbi-Jo to state that he was in Edmonton with her, causes confusion for "us" because then (as Mindy says) we're not thinking outside of the box.... we assume he was in Edmonton and couldn't possibly have been elsewhere.

In my opinion, we should focus on the facts and not get distracted with the "garbage" out there to clutter our minds.

The old apple doesn't fall far from the tree..... why would Bobbi-Jo tell the truth?
   
So true, it is not a fact, that he was in Edmonton.  It is a statement that has not been tried.  I believe it has in so many ways confused and possibly jeopardized the search and the thinking outside the box. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 14, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
There is more than one person involved in the alibi, bobbie joe and esther, two seperate residences, two seperate people, multiple neighbours, multiple potential witnesses. Like I said, everyone has to weigh it out in their own minds.
D1,  With all due respect.  Just I have listened to all the footage, of BobbiJo and Esther outside the court building, and I have re-listened to it.  All I hear is Esther say, Yah, Yah, I have not heard her saying anything, just backing up BobbiJo with Ya, Ya.  And as far as neighbours  and friends, I just have not read or heard it.  The old saying is, still holds true, believe none of what your hear and only halve of what you see.  I don't believe much that I read either, as newspapers have a way with words.  In this case I can only go by what I am hearing.  Which is not a fact. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
It is possible, but it would also be very hard to get away with. That should have been determined and should be pubicly outed if not, bj and esther hung out to dry if they did lie. There are details, there are likely phone records, guests coming by over the week, numerous other ways of them being caught at it. etc..etc. They should be pushed on this point.
out of the box is one thing, into the fying pan another..

I just don't think there is enough to warrant giving to the McCaans as is without some sort of external verification especially right now at xmas. Find another way of dealing with it other than that route.

added- these two things are not mutually exclusive, the alibi needs to be addressed and verified but there is detail, it is on video, the police are aware of it and it has not been contested.

So by all means pursue the other, that may expose the alibi if evidence is found to the contrary, but caution is in order before going for it hook line and sinker to the point the McCaans are notified of a new credible lead.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 14, 2010, 04:54:13 PM
St Albert to Jasper is just over 4 hours.    It is not outside the realm of possibility.   But Vader ended up going East to Edmonton on the 4th...(I believe what they are saying about the dates he was with sis).  Would he go West that far to Jasper? and then back again to Minnow Lake on the 4th?   Guess it depends on who else was involved....that fact we need to know.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 05:06:54 PM

Quote
That should have been determined and should be pubicly outed if not, bj and esther hung out to dry if they did lie. There are details, there are likely phone records, guests coming by over the week, numerous other ways of them being caught at it. etc..etc. They should be pushed on this point.

I completely agree with you D1.  However, as far as we know, this is all Bobbi-Jo and Esther have said to the media.  We don't know what their statements were, if any, to the Police.  And, to stand in front of a camera and microphone is not the same as swearing on a bible to tell the truth in a court room.  And, I hope, you're right - during cross-examination their stories will be scrutinized and their credibility as witnesses will be determined.

As I said earlier, we should work with just the FACTS.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 05:15:30 PM
In a way those are the facts, they are on record, the Police know. BJ and Esther have obviously been taken in to provide statements. Mandatory involving an alibi. Its a tough go to lie to this degree involving circumstance like this, they don't look that bright to pull it off (on their own).
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 05:24:17 PM
for sure D1..who has the link of the video of trudy in vancouver?? please let me know. cant find it...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 05:27:11 PM
In a way those are the facts, they are on record, the Police know. BJ and Esther have obviously been taken in to provide statements. Mandatory involving an alibi. Its a tough go to lie to this degree involving circumstance like this, they don't look that bright to pull it off (on their own).

Careful, careful...... just because we have HEARD (or READ) something, doesn't make it a FACT.   Have you never heard of "The National Enquirer" or "WikiPedia"?  I am NOT a Police Agent, so I would not KNOW what the Police know as fact, would you? 

Bobbi-Jo and Esther together are about as bright as a burnt-out lightbulb.  I think I'd be safe to say that it's only human nature to want to protect those that we love..... which would be one of the reasons why relatives aren't credible witnesses.  For all we know, maybe Travis threatened Bobbi-Jo to lie about his whereabouts.  There is so much we don't know.  Again, that is why I suggest we stick with what we do know.  In my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 05:29:38 PM
for sure D1..who has the link of the video of trudy in vancouver?? please let me know. cant find it...

Mindy... is it this link you're looking for?  http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100714/missing-alberta-couple-100714/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 05:44:47 PM
The "fact" is that they are on record. News video is admissable as statement. Dumb as a burnt out light bulb gets caught pretty easy in a lie, a lie that covers up murder, gets even more scrutiny than average. No one is officially disputing the alibi (yet).

If pursuing any lead, not just this one, that sets aside an alibi, you have to address that with at least as much evidence to the contrary. So to put credence to what ever else, you will be forced to address this issue at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I wish someone would too. 

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 06:42:10 PM
thanks mom. finally did find it and saved it...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 06:45:27 PM
FACT A:  As Travis Vader's only sibling, Bobbi-Jo has THE is highly motivated to lie about his whereabouts, in an attempt to protect him.
FACT B:  Considering Travis Vader's past criminal history and drug involvement, he desperately NEEDS a reliable witness to corroborate his alibi.
For Travis to seek Bobbi-Jo's assistance and for her to reciprocate with a cover-up, is a recipe for dishonesty - bound by loyalty.

EVIDENCE:  Further to that, for Bobbi-Jo to go "gang-busters" in the media with her alibi, promotes her self-deprecating behaviour. 

ASSUMPTION:  For argument's sake, let's assume she swore in an Affidavit to Police that Travis was with her in Edmonton on the night in question.
EVIDENCE:  And, let's also assume that she stated the same thing in a recording with the Media.  (Which is not an official "record" - because it can be tampered with, or words taken out of context, and it was not court-produced or authenticated to be legitimate).  Do you know how many times The National Enquirer has been sued?

Does any of that mean it's true?  Nope.

Concerning the alibi, we can only rely on Fact A and Fact B (above).  I reiterate - we need to stick with the FACTS.  We do not know, at least I do not know, if her story has been qualified.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 07:33:36 PM
who really knows about anything but what we have seen, or read.....when it comes to stuff like this WHO,S BUSINESS IS IT ANYHOW..Its ours. just as much as the police...WE could botch up the case????Im sure the wrong person could but I know we all here would handle like a white fluffy feather, with care....What was bulmers excuse to the police at why he allowed vader in his home..No tv?? No radio or police scanner? OOPs. arent they illegal..NOPE.!!.didnt hear a thing officer..Vader DID WHAT!!!!!! The woman here?? Never saw her in my life. GEE, the things vader hauls in my house is beyond me. You can talk to her but I think she just slipped out the back door...The situation with bulmer and vader real odd even tho bulmer a family friend. Who would want that trouble...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 07:51:09 PM
Yes you can go along way down that road if you want.
Quote
FACT A:  As Travis Vader's only sibling, Bobbi-Jo has THE is highly motivated to lie about his whereabouts, in an attempt to protect him

a) no one in my family would put then selves in a place to be lying to provide an alibi for murder. I don't think I even know any body who would. I think it would be quite unusual to do so. Its murder, and two (at least) are on the hook for the alibi.

Quote
FACT B:  Considering Travis Vader's past criminal history and drug involvement, he desperately NEEDS a reliable witness to corroborate his alibi.
For Travis to seek Bobbi-Jo's assistance and for her to reciprocate with a cover-up, is a recipe for dishonesty - bound by loyalty.

b) I have no doubt that Vader would like an alibi and that is why I think he showed up there, to have one.. If he wanted to make one up, he'd want it to start on the third, not he fourth. I think that is an important point in BJ favour but Not Travis's, he set her up as an alibi.  Then the context of what BJ says, she didn't make him look good whether she knew it or not.  Vader would have to be in contact with BJ even to put a phoney alibi in place, tough to do if you weren't there.

evidence-
whether any one wants to look at it or not, she was willing to go on record to say what she did. That is the only evidence, "that someone is on record as a witness with specific dates" where is there any evidence to place him elsewhere?

asumption and evidence-
Quote
And, let's also assume that she stated the same thing in a recording with the Media.

I would assume it would have to be fairly close? Can't see any other reason for it not to be.

Quote
because it can be tampered with, or words taken out of context,

It would have to match close enough for it to be taken near face value, it can't be opposite otherwise there are even charges for that, providing a false statement etc.. too many questions come if not a match.. the basic story holds both ways IMO. media and police..

Quote
Do you know how many times The National Enquirer has been sued?

No idea, I don't read it.

Quote
Does any of that mean it's true?  Nope.

Does any of the above mean it isn't?

She went on record with it, publicly, the police have not disputed nor refuted any part of it.

I understand how this could stand in the way of looking elsewhere, but it could also keep it contained where it should be if true.

Where is proof otherwise? It is speculation itself to say you don't believe the alibi, you have to have something to show otherwise.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 14, 2010, 08:06:00 PM
I wouldn't dare post anything  to distract the ongoing beliefs, but keep in mind my friends,  that it is five months since the McCanns disappeared -- ergo - it's worth keeping a google-eye for the McCann vehicles on that No. 16 Highway.  It's maddening, to me because I believe the authorities have the software and the power, to have already (right after the incident/s)  taken all images of evidence and then  "blocked it from public viewing".  Have you ever noticed when you come across people etc. on the satellite view,  you try to "stop" on it, and it disappears?  However, I will keep googling.

They can't block everything - only what they already discovered.  Aside from that, judging by the present satelite view, I'd say the images around that area go back to around May or June...... so that's within the 6 month limit it is believed it takes for the images to reach the earth ..... except for those who have the ability to gather it in real time.  So I will continue fishing for those vehicles in those areas we know of.  They could pop up anytime.

BTW, does anybody know exactly how the authorities do their "blocking"?  I suspect they enter images such as McCann's RV and MH, then include a "blocking code".  Just guessing here!  But it has to be very possible it's that simple for them.  I still believe they could miss some however - the satellite imagery is still in it's infancy in losts of ways.  Remember the young man in the US who discovered the private plane that had been missing for years.  I for one will keep "looking".
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 08:19:34 PM
I have no problem with anyone looking anywhere they want. I am just the messenger pointing out what you are up against if you try to put forth a theory of dates that conflict with those on record. You will run into this with police, media, and likely the McCaans. I can't follow a dream or vision or whatever for a date with contradicatory physical witnesses or evidence as much as I could for a date without.

But, enough on that, this is one of those things where everyone has their own thoughts and feelings. I hope we can bridge both sides and not isolate each to the other..



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 14, 2010, 08:32:05 PM
@ D1 - there is a very good thesis written by a couple of grad students at Iowa State University explaining their hypothesis on "What Makes a Good Alibi - a Proposed Taxonomy".  I think you may find it interesting.  It will be more interesting after the Psychology students have their input!
http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~glwells/alibi_taxonomy.pdf (http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~glwells/alibi_taxonomy.pdf)

Hypothetically speaking, if Bobbi-Jo were given the option of (a) Lying about a murder, or (b) being murdered, which do you suppose she would accept?
Furthermore, when she first stated the alibi, what information did she know?  We don't know that.  For all we know, Travis could have just told her to lie with no further explanation.  Maybe it's not the first time he has relied on her for protection.  We don't know.

From what I remember reading, BJ also said she hadn't seen him in years.  Interesting time for a visit, dontcha think?

I don't want to waste blog space splitting hairs with why-fors and who-was-its.  That's just not productive.  My initial concern was for us to keep an open mind and think outside of the box, and to not be distracted with clutter that isn't fact.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 14, 2010, 09:02:02 PM
No offence to anyone, but for some reason every time we talk about the whole subject, timeline, and all it just seems to totally revolve around the supposed alibi, and I just don't think it should.  Because the alibi, has never been proven nor dis-proven, nor has it ever been acknowledged by the RCMP.
Bottom line is, according the RCMP, Travis Vader is somehow involved in the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann, he is now a Suspect.  As to where he was on July 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and or the 9th, truly is neither here nor there at this very point in time.  If his alibi is proven or expelled then so be it.  We are not here to say who did what, the RCMP will be able to fill in all those blanks, later.  What we really, really, need to do is find out where on earth the McCann's are.  Someone besides the McCann's where driving their Motor Home On July 4th and July 5th the Motor Home and the SUV.  We need to find out where they are, using what we know for a fact. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 14, 2010, 09:10:10 PM
I wouldn't dare post anything  to distract the ongoing beliefs, but keep in mind my friends,  that it is five months since the McCanns disappeared -- ergo - it's worth keeping a google-eye for the McCann vehicles on that No. 16 Highway.  It's maddening, to me because I believe the authorities have the software and the power, to have already (right after the incident/s)  taken all images of evidence and then  "blocked it from public viewing".  Have you ever noticed when you come across people etc. on the satellite view,  you try to "stop" on it, and it disappears?  However, I will keep googling.

They can't block everything - only what they already discovered.  Aside from that, judging by the present satelite view, I'd say the images around that area go back to around May or June...... so that's within the 6 month limit it is believed it takes for the images to reach the earth ..... except for those who have the ability to gather it in real time.  So I will continue fishing for those vehicles in those areas we know of.  They could pop up anytime.

BTW, does anybody know exactly how the authorities do their "blocking"?  I suspect they enter images such as McCann's RV and MH, then include a "blocking code".  Just guessing here!  But it has to be very possible it's that simple for them.  I still believe they could miss some however - the satellite imagery is still in it's infancy in losts of ways.  Remember the young man in the US who discovered the private plane that had been missing for years.  I for one will keep "looking".
Wow that is terrific lostlinganer, research must be one of your callings. 
Let's get some ashes too from that Niton wood pile for D1, we all have such great talents on here, and all of you have put so much effort into everything, let's find Lyle and Marie McCann.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 09:35:07 PM
Quote
I don't want to waste blog space splitting hairs with why-fors and who-was-its.  That's just not productive.  My initial concern was for us to keep an open mind and think outside of the box, and to not be distracted with clutter that isn't fact.


Ok lets do that..

You know that her story is false for a fact?

Quote
From what I remember reading, BJ also said she hadn't seen him in years.  Interesting time for a visit, dontcha think?

I do think that. Thats why I think he did visit, to put an alibi in place. Why not say the third if the alibi was contrived by threat of death or otherwise? May as well cover the day of the disappearance.. without the third included, he's still in the running even with the "alibi."

Saying bobbie joe is clutter and a lie is too premature and out of hand for me. It may end up being the only lead there is. The best potential leads and evidence lay with her and that story so far IMO. There are loose ends that still need to be answered. A specific vehicle and a possible partner in crime that delivered Vader to Edmonton. A possible travel route from the vehicles origin etc..

I will leave it there, thats JMO for why she shouldn't be discounted. Others have their reasons for why she should..

The root issue for me here is the psychic information thing.. to discount what you have, slim as it may be on a someone's sayso, no track record, just words. I hate to admit it because i didn't use to feel this, but I've seen too many wild goose chases to go along anymore.. I see the willingness, I understand the motive, I in all honesty just can't follow.

For those who can, some of us will likely seperate on that point untill you come back with something concrete. The seeing is believing thing..
All the best with it, please understand its just something some of us can't do.




Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 10:11:01 PM
hey D1..The info i put on here and sent in wasnt from me but right now as it stands with nothing going on, no leads, no real proof of stuff This info beleived or not could prove to be more credible than we know. Its out there now as maybe others but its up to the police to follow up now.What the police know and are sitting on we will never know no matter how long we keep saying we need to know the vehicle vader was driving...WE may never know. then what.....The real evidence is hidden from us. even prob from the mccanns. Is it even true bobbi hasnt seen vader in yrs as he was only a ways down the road persau...And why didnt htey see eachother for yrs???But yet he shows up on her door step tired and hungry?? He just bought beer at a liiiiiquor store so he wasnt to bad off..cloths looked clean too..Ya theres a bunch of bull up that way and the cops know..So if they have so many cops on this case then go follow all the tips psychic or not given...One may just be the one....I dont see anyone collecting the reward money yet..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 11:11:47 PM
Quote
What the police know and are sitting on we will never know no matter how long we keep saying we need to know the vehicle vader was driving...WE may never know. then what.....

Remember wanting to call in Bill Pitt? recall saying the McCaans should be asking the questions and pushing for answers? None done, after xmas maybe... you don't give up on a lead and move on just because it hasn't been addressed yet.

When you do, you have to know what you are trading it in for, who the person is you are getting the information from? Is there a track record, a success rate/ ANYTHING. I looked, couldn't find anything, not even a prior attempt, some vague info of a work in progress unfolding in her spirit. I wish the lady well with that but fail to see why i should listen to it here, yet anyway.

Maybe this is her first shot at it and she will be world renowned someday, it is xmas, sure carry on miracles can happen..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2010, 11:46:52 PM
Forgive the tone, it took a long time to glean the little there is here from all that went on. I expected more, I want to see more, it is frustrating. By the same token, to move along from here, I expect there to be more to it, I want there to be more to it. I prefer to stay behind and stand the ground we have.

I know others have other idea's and we have beat these to death. I know you all mean well too, I know your intent is good. Your ways aren't mine but you all deserve the chance to take it where it goes.. It is xmas
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 14, 2010, 11:49:29 PM
kelly didnt have the info. a friend of hers did. The idea of bill pitt has been addressed and wether the mccanns follow up will be our guess and i really hope they do. I doubt anything much will happen with the snow up there even after christmas. Bret for obvious reasons seems to down right now. 5 months and nothing regardless of all the work they have put into trying to find lyle and marie...Im not main staying with this info as the one. Just hoping it would be..Hoped the search on RR120 would be the one too..always hope..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 15, 2010, 12:20:12 AM
I offer this (strickly my opinion) way of viewing this situation:

Far too much time has been wasted trying to figure out if Vader's sister's statement (whatever is in it) is honest and for real.  My instinct tells me her supplying this alibi for him is nothing more than that - an alibi for his whereabouts.  There's no way of knowing exactly when and if he was at her home, or when he arrived or left.  Even if there were added statements offered by her neighbors to that effect, I would not take them serious.  Nobody is going to go against Vader... not his sister, nor anyone who knows his reputation through her or throught the grapevine.  So that excludes anything about her in my calculations.

Far too much time also gets wasted on discussing the validity and or feasibility of any offerings from psychics, remote viewers etc.  After 5 grueling months of relying on what's considered fact, the McCann's are no closer to being found.  All avenue have either been exhausted and/or botched up.

Therefore I say; I have tons more faith in the drive of the posters on here, than I do in any of the so-called "proven or realized facts".  AT this point in time I say this:
1. Anybody in the vicinity of where the cabin was burned, where cars and buildings were burned ect.  connected to Vader, for goodness sake, try to sneak in there and get some "clean samples" of the ashes.... use clean disposable plastic cloves and a clean unused jar or baggy.  and then reach D1 for instructions what to do with it. 

2.  Anybody who has been given psychic or seer information as to exact setting/location, please get googling and making phone calls to anyone you know between Edmonton and Jasper - to find out if there is a century old/very old barn that has survived everything else on the property.  Read back a page or so to get that description.  After 5 month's posts going nowhere, what's wrong with pursueing this.  I know the holidays are close, so just keep it on your list and get to it when you can.  I, myself, intend to question friends in Calgary and also about 300 kil. west of Calgary (farm people) to find out where this barn/property fitting that description might be.... these people also frequent Jasper and travel hundreds of miles daily.  They just might come up with some suggestion to me of where I can google search.

3.  Go back to square one, when the McCanns left home;  this barn could be anywhere along there.  by the way, when I was reading the description of such barn and property, and what this "seer" was visualizing;  it took my mind directly to the old deserted trailer/home with the old outhouse and desertet vehicle back in the trees.  A psychic who looked at that particular picture passed on the same description of occurances their psychic vision provided them.... that was Lionel being attacked and, Marie feet away etc.  It was so much like the description posted yesterday (I think yesterday) that the hair on the back of my neck stood on end.  I can't fathom why somebody in that area couldn't get to that property, check it out for blood and other DNA.... especially up against the right front side of the triler facing the road.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 12:40:26 AM
where is this trailer LOST.. I have seen pics but a trailer is so far from being a barn...Your right about all this 5 month rehashing this and that and it has gotten us no where..WE dont know what the police know or the mccanns and will never know...Can a person be charged getting caught on that property trying to take ashes..Can u just walk onto someones property and take stuff??I know many tips have gone in that we dont even know about.I just happen to get one and post it..All I felt was it was to contrarey from the niton area everyone plus me were on..It was out of the box..Didnt seem or feel right...It was something so off to what we all were trying to do in vaders area. In reality vaders area is BC and alberta...We just boxed him in the niton area...As much as we try to do here we just dont have what we need to find the mccanns..If the police cant, how can we...Its great to try,give ideas and support eachothers ideas and work off them but in reality we are just human ..I really hope and pray the mccanns can have a  nice christmas and knowing we are here for them....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 15, 2010, 03:21:21 AM
When this first began, the late reports, dropped tips etc, I felt this needed watching. I've seen this sort of thing before, when cases start like this, they have a habit of finishing the same if not caught fast. it's usually a long time later before any one gets around to looking at what went wrong and what might have been missed. The family is usually last to give up on the official investigators. So at least we rounded up most of what evidence there was to be found. Its all left here as a record should anyone come looking.

But you are all right though, that part is pretty well done.. Let the McCaans have their Christmas and sent whatever you wish after if you must.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 15, 2010, 08:53:50 AM
Maybe the cops around Niton Junction should set up RIDE programs....and start putting some heat on the "no goods" around.   Stop their vehicles....check for drinking or the smell of drugs...and start busting some guys, then start asking some questions.....The cops need to be around more, and sniffing around the locals.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 15, 2010, 09:26:32 AM
....then those meth heads will just accuse the police of harassing them.  After all, these types band together and give each other false alibies.  Too bad these meth heads wouldn't start stealing from each other and attacking each other;  then the problem would take care of itself.  I mean one must know when another has a big haul of stolen goods, and/or a new supply of meth????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 15, 2010, 09:57:11 AM
24mindy; this is the article on a remote viewers site that had the picture in it.  I will go back and get the exact http for you; then I will "modify" this post

MC Cann Clue - Killers Hideout? - Sept 29, 2010 @ 504pm
Missing person, remote viewing, google search
On Sept 13, 2010 we did a vision where a blue grandam came up with a pine freshener in the front mirror. see postings below.

I looked on the google map for marks work wear house and I've seen that street view before but didn't know WHY it came up.

Then I notice there is a Royale Lepage Real Estate across from it.

mindy; here's the actual link.... noticed you comment there... I feel a little stupid now. ... anyway, here's the picture of the trialer and also where the cabin and vehicles were burned:


Now if there's somebody travelling they need a place that is remote to stay , right?

so why not rent a cabin?

It's just a whim, but I Miller Lake came up and low and behold it's listed July 6 2010 AND I find a BLUE Grandam or one that looks like it in the left back corner of the photo.

check out the outhouse...

green with yellow trim (like my remote viewing dream only it was bigger and I assumed it could be from that fire north of junction?)

anyways it hit me and so I'm going to post it as a possible clue.

http://www.valerienorris.com/listing_detail-4190371.html (http://www.valerienorris.com/listing_detail-4190371.html)

MLS#21357

please see WHO owns this place, is it the name that I gave the FIND MC CANN psychic investigators?

check out who is related :)

And see how long it's been vacant. I'd look in that outhouse there for some clues pronto!

*** update Sept 29 2010 @ 633 pm***

who is Victor Kasing or something that sounds like that name?
it came up before but cannot find any info on this person.

*** update correction your right it's not at miller lake another listing is it's in EDSON ALBERTA***

I don't know the area there and my google maps aren't the best. sept 29,2010 648 pm

***update sept 30 2010 @ 609 pm****
received from comments
#19 Miller's Lake West Edson

Blue Grandam - Miller lake alberta royal lepage mls 21357 - posted july 6 2010 - l4190371_t1280792660516_c20_charlie_mobile_021.JPG
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 11:25:30 AM
TRAILER LOOKS A BIT FRYED LIKE IT HAD BEEN BURNT A BIT. i SEE THE BLUE VEHICLE. IS THIS PLACE ABANDONED?WHERE EXACTLY IS THIS PLACE WEST OF EDSON..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 12:11:26 PM
have gotten more info of where the mccanns are. I need to write out the specifics..I cant stand dealing with the police. They are crazy..I want to call the edson or hinton .Once I get info more narrowed down i will post..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 12:57:50 PM
in that area is run down shacks and barns..barely standing..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on December 15, 2010, 06:03:54 PM
Maybe the cops around Niton Junction should set up RIDE programs....and start putting some heat on the "no goods" around.   Stop their vehicles....check for drinking or the smell of drugs...and start busting some guys, then start asking some questions.....The cops need to be around more, and sniffing around the locals.


I like the way you think jobo.... maybe we could put a "bug in the ear" of Mothers Against Drunk Drivers to put some pressure on the cops to do just that.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 06:15:01 PM
SAP: talked to jasper park lodge. there are 2 old red barns in back, one more hidden tho..Also talked to a lady who works for hinton info center who used to have a employer, in the 1980,s who was friends with travis vader..Travis would of gotten to know the hinton , jasper park area quite well...There is also a abandoned ranch not far out of park area with barn off road aways.. She wasnt sure if anyone stays there but if so she had heard really bad rumors of drugs around this place.....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
The weather for searching not good now ..So sad...I talked to a security guy at the lodge. he is going to check and also he is going to call the jasper police...Did vaders family ever live in hinton or always in niton area 751..he would be been prettty young but may of visited the jasper area with friends there on that old  farm as he got older. Dont know where that guy is now but may of been older..Going to talk to her again when this guy may of left his job at the info center...I send this info in..Its wierd finding a woman who knows vader and his friend working for her...Going to see if this guy still in alberta..Apparently vader had also gone back to states to work,He was a broom macoon??? funny. she told me what is was but sounds like something out of a gone with the wind movie..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 08:04:29 PM
how quaint..clost to FREEMAN LAKE.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 09:29:13 PM
Andrea Sexsmith's Photos - WAB
Photo 15 of 20   Back to Album · Andrea's Photos · Andrea's ProfilePreviousNext
Click on people's faces in the photo to tag them.
Andrea will be asked to approve all tags before others can see them. 


Add a caption


 
Added August 12, 2009
 Andrea Sexsmith so this is what it's like to rough it????
August 12, 2009 at 4:40pm · Report Travis Vader your still beautifull when your roughing it wow!!!!
February 2 at 2:33am · Report Andrea Sexsmith your funny....thanks pretty hungover in this one not going to lie!!!!!!
February 2 at 12:49pm · ReportFrom the album:
WAB by Andrea Sexsmith
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   Is this the girl vader was with?????? He seems to like her....sounds like the girl the guy with the tips described....AHA
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 15, 2010, 10:58:45 PM
this is not the girl......David L. Smith December 15 at 8:13pm Report
don't know - probably not; looking at her spiritually, she has some deceptiveness and manipulation in her; but doesn't seem to be the kind of person that might be involved directly with the McCann disappearance. Could she KNOW something about it? Quite possible; but unknown. The hazy image picture that I seemed to get of a woman involved fits the photo's basic coloration, but I feel like the woman that was involved may be a bit more "rugged and saddle-worn" - though, likely somewhat attractive. Probably in fairly decent physical condition - but more from good genes and outdoor activities.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 17, 2010, 06:26:03 AM
Mindy, what do you think happened to the McCanns?  How did it all play out?  I am hopeful if you put it all down, as you see and feel it, the thing that is bothering you in the back of your mind may just come out.   
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 17, 2010, 01:48:04 PM
I sincerely hope that the McCann families receive THE tip sooner than later, and hope they can find peace this Christmas season.

Hopefully the answers will come soon.
I would also like to take this opportunity to wish all of the McCann children and family/friends my best wishes for the Christmas season. My hope is that each of you knows how much you are in our thoughts each day. It is so important to have the love and support of family, so was glad to read that the family will gather for Christmas.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 02:50:51 PM
I pray for a peacefull christmas for the mccanns..That some joy will fill their hearts. They have edured the ultimate loss that should not of ever happened..I pray for closer soon. To put it all to rest..We will always be here for them. Thoughts of the mccanns are close to our hearts..I also pray that the tips that have come in will lead them to the final search as the weather gets better ...Or even better yet that a tip will lead the police to exact location...Im so sorry Mccanns that you have had to suffer so much. god be with you and god be with everyone here and on the mccann page...love you mccanns....<3
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 05:03:32 PM
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/video/index.html?releasePID=EOJT0V0_2LAoJzXeqCylZ29ripPD8LLl (http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/video/index.html?releasePID=EOJT0V0_2LAoJzXeqCylZ29ripPD8LLl)


  to sad  :( :(   Mccanns preparing for Christmas....Please watch this. heart breaking..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 07:42:42 PM
The RCMP has been monitoring the couple's cellphone and credit card usage, but report there has been no activity since July 5.

this is odd..lyle and marie last used cards etc on july 3rd so what is this. Someone used their cards on the 5th??????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 08:24:47 PM
found pic of SUV on its way out of jasper towards edmonton. its identical..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 17, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
Thank you very much, Mindy, for pointing out their credit card was used on July 5th.  Wish we knew where.... I wonder if the McCanns used it, or someone else.  How hard is it to use someone else's credit card?  I don't have one. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
when i talked to people in jasper they kinda heard something they said about the mccanns but payed no real attention i guess..That place was booming with RV,s that wkend..always is.I have read that article many times but just caught it now about the 5th.. so odd..something up..Mccanns would of had to of signed their own cards. to hard to use anyones credit cards or bank cards these days..IF mccanns were in SUV in PG they hadnt been hurt yet..Now this is getting to wierd...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 09:59:25 PM
how hard is it to go back on store video to july 5th..And if police knew of this, did bret??This would mean just before minnowlake it was used but where alright..Hope its not a miss print because i have heard no one else mention this date being wrong...maybe police should be addressed to why they said this...I woiuld get every store along 16, each store everywhere to go back to july 5th to see if they see the mccanns...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 17, 2010, 09:59:35 PM
Exactly.  Sorry, I don't know how to quote.  PG keeps coming up in my mind.  Wasn't there talk of the SUV in PG with an old couple in it?  I can't remember if they were driving, or passengers.  Driving slow.  I wonder if looking for an address (for drugs?) or trying to attract attention?

Is anyone familiar with Hwy. 16 from Jasper to PG?  I think that was one of Lyle's old trucking routes?  Any gas stations or cafes along there?  Would there be grow ops, chops shops?  There are gang problems in PG, I wonder if that criminal activity extends down to Jasper?

What is the chance the perps needed the SUV to get to PG for drugs, and when they realized Lyle was familiar with the route to PG, and PG itself, the McCanns were taken along?  Maybe with the promise they would be released in PG unharmed? 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 10:24:07 PM
with this 5th date theres a pssibility they had been to a ATM machine too..An outside one. well from that gas station lyle was at to PG I guess everything should be checked...they would have video.Maybe this should be brought up with the mccanns. and its so crazy no one has noticed this before. like me??? :) Everyone assumes mccasnns killed on the 3rd maybe 4th but now with this statement of last credit card ussage on the 5th it changes things...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 17, 2010, 11:27:34 PM
The RCMP has been monitoring the couple's cellphone and credit card usage, but report there has been no activity since July 5.

this is odd..lyle and marie last used cards etc on july 3rd so what is this. Someone used their cards on the 5th??????
Where are you reading this information it Mindy? 
I have been busy and I will send you a message, but I have to go out to my frozen computer instead of the nice warm laptop.   It will have to be later this weekend. 
That is very interesting information, and they likely had been tracking it, and all the other little tid bits along the way. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 11:41:05 PM
this is old stuff talents...thats whats so bizzare....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 17, 2010, 11:48:45 PM
with this 5th date theres a pssibility they had been to a ATM machine too..An outside one. well from that gas station lyle was at to PG I guess everything should be checked...they would have video.Maybe this should be brought up with the mccanns. and its so crazy no one has noticed this before. like me??? :) Everyone assumes mccasnns killed on the 3rd maybe 4th but now with this statement of last credit card ussage on the 5th it changes things...
Everybody but me, I have always believed that they drove to Prince George and that Lyle was driving incredibly slow because he knew it would draw attention.  He having been a truck driver would know all the stories and jokes about fast Alberta drivers.  As soon as I heard them say they where driving so slow, that is what I thought.  I wrote it here, that I thought they where intersected  by the criminals closer to the cut off for #5 Hwy South and #16, but everyone just put it down and were so absolute about it being in Alberta, and being around Niton Junction or Minnow Lake area, that the McCann's where harmed or dropped off.  Some young fellow early on, on the McCann Support FB page mentioned that the SUV had been seen coming out of a scrap yard in Prince George but the ruler of that site, eliminated the information.  At any rate.  The fellow on the video clip from Prince George stated that the old couple or old man was driving, the SUV that looked like the McCann's and they had the partial licence plate number.  I will have to try to find it again, I think it was in the Vancouver Sun, or maybe Global, not sure will have to look.  Any way I hope that they get to the bottom of this, all very soon.  Things have been eliminated from the most recent news clips from CTV, the interview with the RCMP officer was removed from the news clip.  I mentioned his slip up on another site, and I watched it again this morning, by this afternoon that part of the clip was gone. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 17, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
I saw that write up. didnt beleive it. How could anyone with SUV found at carrot creek...Found pic of SUV on google on 16 leaving jasper towards edmonton way. Showed someone and they have verified it as the one minus not being able to see lisence plate...sent it in tonight...hope ploice beleve it. ill send pic to them via email/ cops arent jumping on these tips im sending.. what the crap huh...well just found out that google still in 2009 but suv is identical. so wierd. google cant seem to update either.??dumb..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 12:35:33 AM
just out of curiosity..How bad does a fire have to be for no remains to be found in a vehicle or a house that burnt to the ground..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 18, 2010, 01:32:51 AM
24mindy;  I have researched that in the past.
As I understand, cremation takes more than 2 hours with consistent heat of at least 800 degrees celcius / 1400 farenheit) ... then the remains still have to be crushed and put through a process to get uniform ashes. In addition to this, if the deceaced has a pacemaker, it has to be removed, or the body cannot be cremated. Pacemakers cause huge explosions and have been known to destroy crematoriums.

This is all so tasteless, but fact nonetheless.  I dearly hope the family is not reading the thread at this point.... although if the police are worth their salt at all, they would have already discussed this with family.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 18, 2010, 04:13:42 AM
Maybe the MH being taken to the campground and burned was just a big distraction while the McCanns were being taken on a drug run to PG?  And their credit card was used for the fuel. I mentioned on here before the possibility of the SUV being the vehicle the perps were after  for a drug run to PG.  I am not offended nothing much came of my idea then, as I am a newcomer on here, and you folks had some really good theories going of the MH and SUV and Alberta.  That is what barnstorming is, everyone putting forward their ideas.  There are some really excellent thinkers on this page.

I do remember the young lad and his parent (his mum?) reporting they saw a SUV like the McCann's in PG, I think in a wrecking yard, it was dirty, and they thought they saw camping gear? in the SUV.  I think they said it looked like the SUV had been in water.  Does that ring a bell with anyone? It seemed like that report then got overshadowed by the report of the man and woman who tried to make a report of seeing the SUV in PG but felt they got the blowover at the PG police station.

I wondered why a SUV would be at a wrecking yard, but then realized some wrecking yards in BC do vehicle repairs.  Maybe this wrecking yard is shady, and connected to shady ones in Alberta?  Too bad we did not learn the name of the wrecking yard.

Weren't there several reports of the SUV in PG, enought to make the PG police state they did believe the SUV had indeed been to PG?  Of course none of us knew the mileage of the SUV starting out from the McCann home, and what the mileage was when the SUV was recovered.

I wonder if the old buildings that some are seeing or sensing could be around PG and not in Alberta?  Do you think that is possible, Mindy?  Have you been up around the PG area?  Does it fit at all what you are sensing?

I think the family will be careful about reading these pages, they know everyone on here has their best interests at heart, but to thrash out theories some may be unpleasant to read.  There are some very caring folks over on the McCann Family support page, and I know some of the McCanns read it.  I am sure the McCanns know everyone is trying their dardest to help them get their parents back home.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: TalentsUnlimited on December 18, 2010, 11:11:31 AM
Can't imagine how the McCann family are feeling.     It must be an ongoing torture. 
I am not offended either, just that was the way it was then, and who knows.  At least one person knows and I sure do wish you would just walk on over, pick up the phone and give the McCann family back their parents. 
 
"You know where the McCann's are, these two people never harmed anyone, and they mean the world to their children and grandchildren, to their unborn great grandchildren.  Lyle and Marie's granddaughter and her husband, are expecting a baby, and that little baby will be born and needs to know where Lyle and Marie are.  Remember the trips to your own grandparents place,  I hope they were loving grandparents, I hope that you experienced the peace and security of time spent with grandparents, and if not, my heart goes out to you.  Please make a good thing happen, from something gone terribly wrong. 
Maybe what has happened to Lyle and Marie was an accident, you didn't plan to hurt anyone, oh, please know that you can help fix that at least you will have helped their family.  If you tell the truth, and turn yourself in, to the RCMP...in Edson, you will be freeing yourself, from some of your burden of guilt and you will be doing something good, which is a step for you to get your life back.   Please I beg you.  You know it is the best thing for everyone even for yourself.  I am sure they will help protect you, if you need to be protected from someone."  Please call:    Edson    780-723-8800 
[/font][/font][/b]
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 12:59:17 PM
vey old article sap of when they said they finished searching the burn area of the MH...Wil find and post..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 18, 2010, 07:42:22 PM
I have had something in the back on my mind for months.  I didn't say it because I figured most of you would think I was too far out of the box; but here goes.  8)
When I was a teen, I remember a couple of bad "cats" from my home town devising a plan to set fire to the Strand Gym (biggest landmark in New Waterford at the time) .... the plan was that the fire... it being a small town, would attract everybody in town. 

While everyone was standing around and police busy, and fire fighters busy etc. ...these guys intended to climb on top of the Bank of Nova Scotia and use tools and welding gear to get through to the "safe".  They would be out of there before being noticed.  There were no alarms back then.
However; those three couldn't stay "straight" long enough to pull off anything.... plus they bragged about their plan to the point they had to forget about it.

That's what I thought about when the cabin and vehicles were burned.... and the MH..... like somebody deliberately turning the area's authorities and neighbors to a couple of "big deliberately set fires" so all would be heading to the fires in such a hurry and with such interest, as to not notice anything else along the roads.  ....just a thought, but I know a few of you are thinking along that line.
I'm sure Mr. Vader knows how the authorities and communities react to such.... as does his friends!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 18, 2010, 09:30:36 PM
A Diversion. 

I still wonder who, and how, got the registration papers out of the MH before it was consumed by the fire?  I have seen a MH burn, and man, with all the propane and gas in the tanks, it went up so fast, and so hot, nobody could get anywhere near it. I've never heard anyone come forward and take credit.

Does anyone know how many camping spaces are at the site where the MH burned?  Has anyone else ever wondered why no other campers have spoken up, who were camping or fishing there at the same time?  and what they observed? 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 09:44:09 PM
they just got the reg plate superbee. Im surprised they got that..There is a suspicious post on the mccanns page.. Have never seen this person on and their remark is truly odd and suspicious. I checked their facebook profile and u couldnt add them as a friend if u tried. you cant see nothing. Really strange. ( alll im saying is they didnt make it) what a wierd post..pic is of a ugly cartoon cow..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 09:59:24 PM
Looked this person up last name only in alberta. may be diff person but theres a LAJAIE IN ST.ALBERT ..37 SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL AVE..202..Check the mccann page..crazy type of post to leave thats for sure..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on December 18, 2010, 10:12:33 PM
Quote
they just got the reg plate superbee
...... mindy, do you mean they just got the license plate reg. # or the serial plate registration #.  I always wondered what proof exactly, the authorities have that this is the McCann MH ???  I simply feel that plate ...be it the serial # or license plate # ......... it is very little effort to transfer those to an old wreck.  Let's face it, whether an old wreck or brand new rig, they burn the same!  ....and a good thief would make sure to have the same type of "wheels" on the one they switch for the "good one". 

I just kind of always felt those guys stripped and/or fenced the McCann's motor home.  I think they only hung onto the RV until they got the big money for the MH..... by the time they accomplished that, something spooked them "big time"; and they deserted the RV in a panic.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 10:35:07 PM
papers would of burned up. they got the small reg plate from inside of MH or the lisence plate. not clear on that. This person on the mccanns wall with same last name lives close to lyle and marie.....This is so odd. I also had a real good look at the MH. Its main door is further back of MH but on lyle drivers side seems to be a emergency door.. reconized that right away..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 18, 2010, 10:49:57 PM
The RCMP has been monitoring the couple's cellphone and credit card usage, but report there has been no activity since July 5.

this is odd..lyle and marie last used cards etc on july 3rd so what is this. Someone used their cards on the 5th??????

I'm posting this as a matter of interest. This statement from page 4 of part 1.

Quote
They were last seen at 9:25 a.m. July 3, when surveillance cameras captured them buying gas at the St. Albert Superstore Gas station.

Their credit card hasn't been used since.


Also another statement from page 5, part 1.

Quote
On July 3, Lyle McCann was captured on video filling the motorhome with gas at the Superstore in St. Albert. It was the last time their credit card was used.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 10:57:43 PM
your right debbiec.. Supposably at gas station card was used last but like i saw, police said after july 5th a card was used..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 18, 2010, 11:05:17 PM
This statement is regarding the McCann's registration papers.

From SAP
Quote
Early articles stated that Police were able to pull out registration papers on the M/home before it was totally engulfed in flames.
If the perps wanted some time to clear away from there, they probably started a fire where it wouldn't burn/explode rapidly, imo, giving them a good chance to get away, and that probably gave Police a chance to grab papers.

This is a statement taken from the link below.
Quote
After sifting through the burned RV, police found the McCann's registration papers, 


http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100716/bc_vehicle_found_100716?hub=BritishColumbiaHome (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100716/bc_vehicle_found_100716?hub=BritishColumbiaHome)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 18, 2010, 11:11:36 PM
your right debbiec.. Supposably at gas station card was used last but like i saw, police said after july 5th a card was used..

I am under the impression from what I've read that police have said the cards were not used after July5th, simply in stating that the cards were not used after the MH was found engulfed in flames on the 5th. I have so far been unable to find anything that says the cards were used between the 3rd and 5th or after the 5th. Still reading.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 18, 2010, 11:23:23 PM

The RCMP says a ground and aerial search of the area where a missing Alberta couple's burned out motorhome was found is now over.

Alberta RCMP spokesperson Sgt. Patrick Webb announced Wednesday afternoon that the search of the remote wooded area near Edson, Alta., is over, but officers will continue to follow up on tips from the public.

"Right now whatever tips and information have come in, our investigators are just finishing up on that," Webb said.

Lyle McCann, 78, and his wife Marie, 77, were last seen July 3 in surveillance video while at a gas station in their hometown of St. Albert, Alta. Two days later, their motorhome was found engulfed in flames in the woods near Edson.

However, the RCMP didn't begin searching for the couple until July 10, when their family reported them missing.

"They were going to pick up (my sister) at the Abbotsford, B.C. airport and spend a week together camping near the Chilliwack area but they didn't show up," the couple's son, Bret McCann, told CTV's Canada AM Wednesday. "That's when we found out that they were missing."

CTV Edmonton's Susan Amerongen said Wednesday afternoon McCann told her that his mother's datebook, which she left at home, also had "Kelowna" written on the spaces for July 5 and 6.

The RCMP has characterized the couple's disappearance as "extremely suspicious."

Both police and family think the key to the case is the couple's missing green Hyundai Tucson SUV.

"We need to get the word out to people, they were towing a Hyundai SUV behind them, and that has not been found," McCann said. "We are very hopeful that by doing these media broadcasts that people will be alerted to this and be on the lookout . . . and phone the police."

"We are hoping my parents are somehow with that vehicle, they might be hurt, but we hope we can find them through that."

McCann said he continues to hold on to hope that his parents will be found, and sent a personal message to them Wednesday to let them know the search is not over.

"We know you're out there. You may be hurt," McCann said Tuesday during a televised news conference. "But we're looking as hard as we can for you."

The Mounties have faced criticism for their actions following the discovery of the burning motorhome and why more efforts weren't made to search for the couple.

"We get lots of stolen vehicles that are burned in isolated locations, that happens on a fairly regular basis," Webb said.

"Every detachment, I would venture to say every RCMP member at one time or another, has investigated a stolen vehicle or an abandoned vehicle that is burned for some reason or other."

The Mounties are now examining whether proper procedures were followed after the burning vehicle was identified as belonging to the McCanns. Officers called the couple's home and knocked on their door but did not find them.

Bret McCann says he has faith in the RCMP.

"The RCMP are fully engaged here," he said. "They are keeping us up-to-date every day."

The RCMP has been monitoring the couple's cellphone and credit card usage, but report there has been no activity since July 5.

On Sunday, Bret McCann started a Facebook dedicated to the search for his parents. As of Wednesday afternoon, there were nearly 4,500 members.

With files from The Canadian Press

   Mistake: i meant what they said here..Not that card was used after july 5th...oops

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 19, 2010, 11:41:16 AM
Good to keep all the facts collected and straight along the way. These are our building blocks for whatever theories and ideas are posed. Whether from psychics or dreams or whatever info is being incorporated, it has to fit with the known facts and build upon them or we will end up outside of the box alright but maybe off in nowhere land. If psychic or similar info is being entertained to build theories upon, I would hope those were from someone with a verifiable track record of success otherwise, I fear we could get way off track and convolute the conversation into something that spreads already thin search resources far and wide needlessly.
tnx For posting the links on the creditcards and reg papers again Deb.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 19, 2010, 12:25:24 PM
Thanks Debbie and Mindy. I think now that if any of their cards were used between the 3rd and the 5th, we would have heard about that, not?

It is my opinion that the credit cards were not used after the 3rd. Yes SAP, I do think we would have heard about it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 19, 2010, 01:22:03 PM
I guess the police words things diff but they say what they say..why they said no cards used after the 5th i dont know. they should of said not after the 3rd as they said before..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 19, 2010, 02:38:38 PM
Good to keep all the facts collected and straight along the way. These are our building blocks for whatever theories and ideas are posed. Whether from psychics or dreams or whatever info is being incorporated, it has to fit with the known facts and build upon them or we will end up outside of the box alright but maybe off in nowhere land. If psychic or similar info is being entertained to build theories upon, I would hope those were from someone with a verifiable track record of success otherwise, I fear we could get way off track and convolute the conversation into something that spreads already thin search resources far and wide needlessly.
tnx For posting the links on the creditcards and reg papers again Deb.

You're welcome, D1.
Agree completely on how important it is to keep the facts collected and straight along the way. Not always an easy task when we now have in excess of 150 pages on this topic.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on December 19, 2010, 04:06:41 PM
Superbee:  In answer to your question about the scrap yard.  I remember reading something about that.  I think it was south of Hwy 16...somewhere southeast of Niton Junction, I believe.   Can't quite remember exactly where, but I googled around at the time, and never did find it.   I also recall mention that the cops did do some kind of search there; I assume, to no avail. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 19, 2010, 05:13:40 PM
Thanks, Jobo, I thought the young boy and his mum were at a wrecking yard in or near Prince George, and saw a vehicle there that was very similar to the missing McCann SUV.  That it was dirty and looked like it had been in water.  Also they thought they glimpsed camping gear in it. 
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 19, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
Thanks, Jobo, I thought the young boy and his mum were at a wrecking yard in or near Prince George, and saw a vehicle there that was very similar to the missing McCann SUV.  That it was dirty and looked like it had been in water.  Also they thought they glimpsed camping gear in it.

superbee, I think you are right. That information is somewhere in all of these pages. I recall reading that as well.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 19, 2010, 05:51:43 PM
Those registration papers, or plates, or whatever the police used to id the MH, still bugs me.  Wouldn't the perp take those papers out?  Why would a vehicle thief ever leave id papers in the vehicle he stole?  By taking away reg. papers, licence plate(s), and the VIN plate from the dash, all the police would have to id the burnt MH would be the number somewhere on the burnt engine block.

By removing all vehicle id, the thief (thieves) buy themselves more time.  And wouldn't they want all the time they could get? 

And why pick the location they did to burn the MH?  I think the 2 actions are connected somehow--leaving the vehicle id to be found, and the torching location.

A very interesting post, Lostinganer, was the burnt up MH really the McCann MH, or was it an old MH wreck with planted McCann MH papers and/ or plates?

After seeing the remains after a MH burned up completely, I find it hard to believe any papers survive an intense fire like that.

I hope the engine block of the burnt MH had a serial number on it, put on by the engine manufacturer, not the thief.  I am sure the police have traced the original engine block number of the McCann MH.  An engine number that does not match indicates either it was not the McCann MH that burned that day, or someone switched the MH engine.  And that is one big job.  Who, but a big ring, would ever do that?

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 19, 2010, 06:00:28 PM
hey...perps leaving ID plate wouldnt of been on their minds for one thing and it will not show who stole vehicle by leaving it. that tag only confirms who the vehicle belongs to.Of all stolen vehicles the owners are found that way and the perps who steal vehicles dont care who owned it...My sons mustang was stolen in the middle of the night right out of the driveway. taken to the river and burnt..The ID showed cops who it belonged to...There would of been no papers left in mccanns MH except for the ones that got blown threw the air as I saw a piece of paper of maybe a book marie was reading..Changing an engine out of a MH would be quite a task.. IT deff was mccanns MH......
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 19, 2010, 06:14:06 PM
Debbiec, as I recall, it was before their SUV was located, authorities were asking everyone to be on the lookout.  I think the report of the mother and son at the PG wrecking yard was first, then I think a weekend when several reports came in of sightings of their SUV in PG, driving slowly, and one report even named the street.  (Later, someone commented, and I agree, why didn't any of the observers keep the SUV in sight, and phone 911, and keep trailing it?). 

The next report came of the man and woman (I think his daugthter?) who were positive they had seen the SUV in PG, were sure it was the right licence plate number, and actually physically went to the PG police station.  There, they did not speak to an officer, but a civilian, whom, they felt, blew them off rather rudely.  They left, feeling hurt, and had to be persuaded by the police, speaking through the media, to please come back in, and make a statement.  I remember seeing the man on tv, his feelings were still hurt, but they had done the right thing, they both went back to the PG police station and told the police what they's seen.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on December 19, 2010, 06:29:27 PM
Quote
The next report came of the man and woman (I think his daugthter?) who were positive they had seen the SUV in PG, were sure it was the right licence plate number, and actually physically went to the PG police station.  There, they did not speak to an officer, but a civilian, whom, they felt, blew them off rather rudely.  They left, feeling hurt, and had to be persuaded by the police, speaking through the media, to please come back in, and make a statement.  I remember seeing the man on tv, his feelings were still hurt, but they had done the right thing, they both went back to the PG police station and told the police what they's seen.


So far I have been able to find the article about the two people who went to the police station to report that they had seen, what they thought to be, the McCanns SUV.

Still searching for the other report.

This is the link.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/story.html?id=3286953 (http://www.globaltvbc.com/story.html?id=3286953)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 21, 2010, 01:01:44 PM
I was looking at some pics on google and saw someone took one of a old red barn.It happens to be on RR 150..That surprosed me ..will try to post..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 21, 2010, 01:04:04 PM
©2010 Google - Imagery ©2010 , Map data ©2010 - Terms of Use2000 ft500 m
in Yellowhead County, AB, Canada

53° 34' 26.98" N  116° 4' 2.88" W 
Misplaced? Suggest new location
by Byron James (Brian)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 23, 2010, 12:22:01 AM
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on December 24, 2010, 11:06:44 AM
Thoughts of the McCaans this Christmas bring mixed emotions, memories of our own passed loved ones, our own parents, of Christmas past, the fragility of life, and of deeper changes in Canadian society that no one wants to see take hold.

The season for easy answers and a fast recovery have passed here. The new year is a time for reflection and regrouping. It's not over but it will be a different sort of battle now.

For Mindy and everyone one else who tried to help, don't feel bad that none of our efforts paid off, it's just as important for the McCaans and the families of every other missing person to know that there are people who care and who are still watching and trying.

Merry xmas, cherish who and what you have today.. tomorrow will write it's own story for us all....

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 24, 2010, 02:03:52 PM
Thats awesome D1. Very well said and from the heart. Its not over yet by a long shot..Im still working on this ..I know we all are. Christmas will just be a moment in time for all to regroup,spend time with loved ones and  then bounce back with new energy and ideas...D1, you have been a great force and encouragement to the board..Looking forward to new things here. merry christmas to you..Love to the mccanns.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jellybean on December 24, 2010, 02:09:04 PM
Keep up the good work!



Peace
JB
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 25, 2010, 11:42:08 PM
hope everyone had a great christmas....Mccanns always on my mind. Working hard with someone in the states on this. praying it all works out. best to everyone.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on December 26, 2010, 06:49:47 PM
I truly hope that in the New Year, when everyone takes a rest from the hard work  you guys are doing to bring attention to areas and places that the McCann's could be. All the very best in the New Year and hoping things will work out and this case will be solved. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 26, 2010, 08:51:34 PM
It will be solved capeheart.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Annastaisha on December 28, 2010, 02:29:43 AM
missed a few days of reading, but, to comment on your questions about using credit cards. I work with credit cards, each card I am to check the back for a signature and compare to make sure they look alike. I am not a handwriting expert, so they just have to look identical. If they do not, ask for ID, ask for 2 pieces if you have to. Any card that is not signed or the signature is worn off  you are to ask for I.D. However, I was surprised how many times I'd I.D. a customer and they'd be surprised that no one had asked them before for ID when their card clearly was missing a signature. Summer time, tourist area... teenagers are employed.... they arent going to diligently check the card, they are just gonna make sure it says approved and someone signed  the slip.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 28, 2010, 11:45:54 PM
I really feel there is something underground about this all. You just dont over take a MotorHome and no one can remember seeing it either...AND it happening to a ex trucker who has traveled that road for eons of years...A MH burning rather than a car spells something fishy as a MH is just not your usual burn for that area besides other wierd stuff up there..The person following the MH down 16 surely would of taken notice after following it for who knows how long....especially if it had turned off in the niton area.Im sure someone would of remembered a MH turning in the area the news is blasting all over the media. Especially about vader living in that area .That too all over the media..All of a sudden niton etc is the main focus of alberta.Im sure someone has seen the MH if turned off in the niton area.A car or truck less noticeable.So come on.A MH traveling down 16 just doesnt dissappear off 16..and it happenes to be on the day of the mccanns trip.Maybe not even 2 hrs into it..Just a wierd feeling right now..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on December 29, 2010, 05:40:26 AM
Exactly, Mindy, there IS something really weird about all this.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on December 29, 2010, 03:28:03 PM
What else doesnt seem right to me is IF vader was involved he sure looked calm in that video.If I had just killed 2 people i would head for the hills not driving SUV around proud as punch..If perps wanted only SUV that would of been a challenge trying to get the keys for it.TO much hassle...You just never hear about BIG RV take overs.I noticed on MH there are 2 doors. The main one and the emergency one on drivers side..Im just sick of this whole thing..So many people disappearing all over too..1 just went missing not far from me. a male in his 20,s...about 15 mins from where i live..aweful..Lives mean nothing to people no more. We are not safe..AND I see so many little kids walking to school alone or on bikes. What is wrong with people. Better to be called over protected than to have a child go missing..I know theres been tons of prayers. God answers prayers. Just wondering why this is taking so long...Im still waiting for this person to give more info..The day they say they have found the mccanns will be the biggest relief....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: ferah04 on January 03, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
hey so i google searched my name today and came across this posting to whom ever was listing the facebook names you should know that the only reason i know Travis vader is through a rig i worked on so please dont be affiliatiing me with this person or in your posts thanks as for facebook as soon as he was a possible suspect in this case he was removed from my facebook
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: capeheart on January 03, 2011, 07:14:24 PM
Ferah04, I do not believe in placing names on other sites that are placed on Facebook. I believe that is not the right of others to use a name and I agree with you. I would never face a person's name on here. Unless a person has been named in a charge or their names are in a newspaper as being accused, I would not post the name. I agree with you, your name should be removed by whomever posted it. ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 03, 2011, 07:33:53 PM
hey so i google searched my name today and came across this posting to whom ever was listing the facebook names you should know that the only reason i know Travis vader is through a rig i worked on so please dont be affiliatiing me with this person or in your posts thanks as for facebook as soon as he was a possible suspect in this case he was removed from my facebook

Hi ferah04,

If you don't want your name posted on here it can certainly be removed. Can you let me know where it is?

I'm not sure who posted it.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 03, 2011, 10:16:02 PM
hi debbiec and capeheart. happy new year..new info sent in I,ve had to put together fitting for the officials eyes... Hoping they follow up when weather gets better i guess but by the looks of it we are going to even encounter alot of snow soon .So I would gather alberta will get it too if not already..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 03, 2011, 10:36:40 PM

Happy New Year to you too, mindy.

Thanks for the update. You've sure put a lot of effort into this and I certainly hope the police will follow up on all information they receive.

Apparently the snow is coming. Not sure about all areas though.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 03, 2011, 10:59:19 PM
thanks debbiec. they have already searched 2 areas but relation to what they are searching is going to be easy when weather is better. With the help of a freind in the states and in not off in a psychic track he has seen where they are but must be searched.He is no psychic. want to watch what I say regarding where he got his info..He just happened to see mccann pic and things have come steady...Its so off from the niton junction area between hinton and jasper park east gate..Have also gotten names of a friend of vaders that worked at the hinton tourist info center and vader and this guy partied together and may of gone to this ranch that is not a ranch no more only about 2 miles from the east gate overlander lodge area..vaders friend lives north of niton junction in hattonford and this woman is still friends with this clint guys family....There is also a warden center off 16 of interest too..My friend said this situation is the mccanns were at the wrong place at the wrong time...My friend has even mentioned the weather that day..I know he is right as a david on panormio has tons of pics and pics of the area being very overcast..I have talked to this david and of all the pics he took of the whole area from jasper to edmonton on highway 16 and even back roads, there are none of the MH. Pocohontas old mines are of interest too but as for the abandoned barns off 16 , its one that is only about 2 miles off 16 either north or south of 16..Hoping police dont concider this as just another hand in...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 12:00:20 PM
I spent some time going through some of the old posts on here over the holidays. In the end I was still surprised by how little information has been released for such a serious case, especially when it is still unsolved and the RCMP say they are not anticipating laying any charges against the only suspect.

Something is very fishy, the cty news crew was bombarded by multiple people all saying they saw Travis Vader and two others driving the McCaan’s suv on multiple occaisions, yet no arrests there either. The police obviously know who these people are and obviously these people have not disclosed where the McCaans have been hidden. Silence has followed this case ever since.

Vader has all the appearances of a man being set up just as his family is claiming except for one thing, Travis is himself in on it. All the details point right at him and little was done to side step any of it, more the opposite, he stepped right into those shoes.

His alibi is quite interesting both in date and detail. I know many on here don’t believe Travis’s sister’s account of his activities during that time but I tend to believe what she says. I believe she was set up to say this both by Travis and Bobbie Jo’s foster mom Esther. I would point out the exact moment in the video where I saw a look on Esther that made me think this but, I haven’t been able to find that video again, my link to it no longer works it’s been removed from the news. It was the video shot at the court house where bobbie jo says he stayed with Esther from the 4th to the 9th. Esther was right there beside BJ in front of the camera’s and did not correct her.

Since then Esther appears to be putting distance between herself and Bobbie Joe moving over to Sherwood park according to earlier accounts. It is not bobbie jo who knows the truth of where Travis was and what he was up to on the dates in question, it is Esther who knows!

What is happening behind the scenes is anybody’s guess but it doesn’t look good on paper. If Vader and co. are “organized” out of Edmonton Esther is the last link to what really happened and she has moved to an area where you find strange things like this going on all the time.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4480.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4480.0.html)

If anyone has a working link to the court house video where bobbie jo says Travis was staying with Esther from the 4th to the 9th, please post it here again.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 12:30:41 PM
will try to get that video D1.I have saved everything. nice to see u back..As far as what I have written regarding info this barn may not be red but of log stlye barn ..Found some old ones off 16 hinton area etc and I beleive u when u mention esther knowing something..I had remembered sherwood park coming to me for some reason way back and noticed vaders in that area..Your right about something dirty fishy here..what is esthers last name? Also finding vaders last girlfriend would be good..someone knows who she is.His girlfriend in 2006 was daniel neilsen but she is married with a kid now. She may still be in contact with vader or has been yrs back..She may know alot.They worked together on the rigs..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 01:06:52 PM
  THIS IS TO JUST EASE EVERYONES MIND THAT THE POLICE DO HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROOVE VADER WAS INVOLVED.....Until now, Vader had been deemed a "person of interest," meaning police believed he had information about the case. RCMP now say there is enough evidence to believe Vader was involved.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Police+name+suspect+missing+couple+case/3464506/story.html#ixzz1ABnS9NTi (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Police+name+suspect+missing+couple+case/3464506/story.html#ixzz1ABnS9NTi)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34094515@N00/2962822377/#in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34094515@N00/2962822377/#in/photostream/)   CAN SOMEONE CHECK THIS PHOTO OUT. HARD TO SEE..NOT SURE BUT LOOKS LIKE MH... LIKE I SAID NOT SURE BUT HAVE A LOOK OKAY.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 05, 2011, 03:00:57 PM
On this pic that you posted 24mindy.....the date says the pic was taken in 2008.    I see someone else asked when the pic was taken, on the comments section.  FYI
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 03:15:38 PM
just checking. couldnt find date...Theres a pic out there somewhere.or a video..glad to see almost everyone back.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on January 05, 2011, 03:41:59 PM
That photo was taken with a Canon EOS 40D Camera on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:09am.

Although it says "am" (morning), I'm assuming an error there with the camera setup.

That would make the photo 1 year, 8 months and 11 days too early for it to be the McCann's.  Darn.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 05, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
After reading your link 24 mindy, I feel that Vader won't talk enough to implicate anyone else.  He just might be one of those guys that will do his time rather than talk.   The authorities do consider Vader a suspect,and have since September  but why can't they corner his accomplises?   What is stopping them?  They must know at least that much, who Vader was with.
  I wonder which good interviewers they have brought in, nothing seems to have come out of Vader after all this time in jail. How successful are these interviewers?   Or like I say....he just won't talk.   
  The answers will have to be in the community...and like I have always said...with an ex-girlfriend....or someone else that has left the area with bad memories of Vader and company.  Someone with an axe to grind.
  The McCanns have still not been found.   If Vader is a suspect, he has not answered the basic question...where is this couple?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 04:31:28 PM
With Vader locked away for now, the RCMP seem to have done little else. Could Bobbie Jo's foster mother Esther McKay be the girlfriend locals have mentioned being seen with Vader? She is around his age and bobbie did say Vader was staying at her place!!!

Still can't find a working link to the video with Esther standing side by side with Bobbie joe when Bobbie says Vader stayed with Esther 4th to 9th..
This could end up being quite important, I hope Brett and family have saved all of what was said.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on January 05, 2011, 06:11:02 PM

Mindy - I think this is the one you're looking for.  I will download it for you and send it to you via email.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100727/missing-alberta-couple-100727/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100727/missing-alberta-couple-100727/)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 06:37:34 PM
This is the video D1 wanted.......awesome. Vader dating that foster mother???Who knows huh. She may know lots thats for sure...I wonder if she visits vader as a MAMA..I was told that vaders ex girlfriend may or not have had anymore contact with him as she is married with a kid now..I would think vader had alot of girfriends.He sure went down hill fast 2 yrs ago....Did he have a girlfriend in summerland as he did live there too. But those people did say they saw a old couple not well in SUV in PG..Was vader there with this woman..Im not to sure about the SUV sighting in PG. Dont think with lyles bad heart that he could of driven that far in such a bad situation...I heard thru the person giving me info that if there was a woman with vader she quickly headed to either vancouver bc or oregan in the states..Vader got around. He knew everyone. That means some idiot up there is very closed mouth.Vader wont confess murder.He wont spend that much time in jail. For murder he will.He has nothing to gain by talking so may as well give up on that one. Cops lie too so vader wouldnt trust them..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 07:45:43 PM
Esther mckay has added herself as a friend under ESTHER R MCKAY-CROSWELL with over 1000 friends and still plays farmville.She is a foster mom?? Unreal...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
The video link above is what is left of the original footage. It has been edited and the the exact spot where Bobbie Joe saying the dates of Travis's visit in Esther's presence has been removed. It is a subtle but very important change. Bobbie Joe saying Travis stayed with Esther is a lot different than Esther saying it. In print, it does not carry the same evidentiary weight that it does on video with Esther in the same shot hearing it live on camera. We spoke of this and described the scene in earlier posts.

I guess that is permanently lost now unless someone has saved the original video as a personal archive.. There is some meaning to this, they don't edit like that for nothing.. The McCaans should be made aware and take steps to retrieve that footage before it is too late if it isn't already.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
I,ve tried finding it D1..I remember which one u are talking about. I have so much its hard to find again..Will keep looking tho..Saw a short video yesterday where police are saying 6 months later they are still getting tips in...Heres hoping..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 08:50:15 PM
Unless you saved the actual footage and not just the link, the video is gone, its been edited to remove that segment. Yes they can do that. It is unusual though and means something, they have been caught in the act. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but somewhere earlier on, didn't Bobbie Joe said she hadn't seen Travis since the fourth when he arrived? Then she says he stayed with Esther till the 9th.

Why remove that footage? it's Vader's alibi witnesses and the only record of it???
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 08:57:35 PM
If I remember right she hadnt seen him for months or longer even yet..Showing up at her place was odd alright after all that time. When she was asked about the vehicle he came in, her saying she cant comment on that just left a wide door open..She didnt want to disclose nothing wether it was the SUV or a stolen vehicle...She could of said I have no idea as he was dropped off.Im sure the neighbours seen the vehicle..Did the police even ask the neighbours ..doubt it..One person that may know alot is vaders old girlfriend.If she is in the area. didnt ask this other person about it. didnt want to scare her off but plan on emailing her again...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Yes, the vehicle was questioned and Bobbie deeked on that saying she "couldn't" say. Who coached her to say that?

The reference to haven't seen Travis since the fourth was in regard to the court appearance where Bobbie said he looked rough and she hadn't seen him since the 4th. I'll see if I can find that one.

Editing previously aired video is an unusual act, how do you prove it? Does anyone else recall seeing Bobbie Joe and Esther standing side by side on the side walk in the video when Bobbie J said Vader stayed with Esther from the 4th to 9th? Esther was in the same frame of the shot when Bobbie Joe said it. Thats the clip I am looking for.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 09:10:31 PM
wil try to find but if u cant find it then i may not beable to. Lots of stuff has vanished..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 05, 2011, 09:19:03 PM
I found lots of links that have just gone dead now, thats the trouble with internet news stories, if anyone like the McCaans has reason to want those stories, they have to be saved in a special manner. A news organization editing a video clip and leaving the original link up is a different matter, that is a more deliberate act, akin to fraud!
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 09:46:10 PM
would the first thread of mccanns have it. would prob take a long time. this video of bobbi seems to be inside but other one is outside..This video was out there for all to see. why would they ditch it..we all know what she said. while searching on google im sure running across some videos i havent seen.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 05, 2011, 09:54:24 PM
According to Bobbi-Jo Vader, Travis was in Edmonton from July 4th to July 9th, staying with a family friend. She said he came to the city because he was sick and needed to rest.

STAYING WITH A FAMILY FRIEND?? THOUGHT SHE SAID HE STAYED AT HER PLACE...have pic of that video but not in video form. where the heck is it??  Just read that videos come off after 28 days.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 05, 2011, 10:54:41 PM
The reference to haven't seen Travis since the fourth was in regard to the court appearance where Bobbie said he looked rough and she hadn't seen him since the 4th. I'll see if I can find that one.


I was able to find this statement taken from the link below. BJ doesn't specifically say that she has not seen Vader since the 4th in it, but does say that he stayed with Esther from the 4th to the 9th. Not exactly what you are looking for.

Vader 'tired' and 'sick' during visit
Vader said her brother came to stay with them in Edmonton on July 4, a day after the McCanns were last seen. The couple's charred motorhome was discovered July 5.

"Travis did come to me in the city on the fourth to the ninth of July. And he stayed with Esther," Vader said. "He was tired and he was sick and he needed to rest."



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/27/edmonton-vader-court-appearance-sister-speaks.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/27/edmonton-vader-court-appearance-sister-speaks.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 05, 2011, 11:11:08 PM
OK, now found this article and think it may be what you are referring to D1. It is from a statement made by BJ outside the courthouse on July 28.

BobbiJo said she last saw her brother on July 4, the day before the McCann's burning motorhome was found, when he came to stay with her at her Edmonton home.

"He was tired. He needed a rest," she said, referring to his being on the run for a long time. "That's all I can say."


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/27/14844956.html (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/27/14844956.html)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 06, 2011, 12:37:50 AM
Thats the one Deb, excellent!
So we have Bobbie saying
Quote
"Travis did come to me in the city on the fourth to the ninth of July. And he stayed with Esther," Vader said.

Bobbie says that she hadn't seen Travis herself since the 4th.
Quote
BobbiJo said she last saw her brother on July 4, the day before the McCann's burning motorhome was found,

But the video in which Bobbie Joe put it all on Esther for verification and proof of Travis's whereabouts from the 4th to the 9th has been altered. There is no verification of Esther having heard or having agreed with or being party to the alibi put forth by Bobbie Joe now.

Is this re- posturing witnesses and tailoring testimony in preparation for something yet to come?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: debbiec on January 06, 2011, 12:50:49 AM
Quote
Is this re- posturing witnesses and tailoring testimony in preparation for something yet to come? 

It would sure make you wonder, as I cannot think of a single valid reason for editing the video to appear different than when it was first released.

Any other possibilities anyone can think of?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on January 06, 2011, 05:08:21 AM
Who can take a video clip off here, edit it, and put it back on here in its new edited version?  Who can do that, is it difficult to do?  Who would benefit from the altered video clip being seen now, instead of the original clip?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on January 06, 2011, 06:23:07 AM

The link of the video I gave earlier was from the National CTV website.
I'm wondering if the "extended version"  we saw earlier was from a local (Edmonton) broadcast.
To me... that would make logical sense - head office probably archives "highlights" while the local station (who would have originally video-taped it) originally had the full "raw" interview aired.

If anyone has a different or older (defunct) link of the extended video, please let me know.  My computer has a large memory and I likely still have it on my computer's cache..... I'll need to know what it was called though.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 06, 2011, 11:18:54 AM
The videos aren't really on "here", as on this site on this board, what we see is just a player which links back to the source program. If the internet connection to the news site goes down, none of those videos will play on their own. They can be edited likewise back at the news site, we just play the new version on the same link.

The ctv video isn't a highlight version, its been specifically edited and posed as the original.

There is funny stuff going on, the old link was at-
http://www.globalnational.com/programs/16x9/Vader+sister+speaks+outside+court/3328229/story.html (http://www.globalnational.com/programs/16x9/Vader+sister+speaks+outside+court/3328229/story.html)

I can not get this link to play at all. The picture of bobbie joe standing beside Esther is the same picture as what was originally shown.

Now the text portion of the old link is saying Travis was staying with a friend.

Quote
According to Bobbi-Jo Vader, Travis was in Edmonton from July 4th to July 9th, staying with a family friend. She said he came to the city because he was sick and needed to rest

Our video links on this site are in the McCaan thread part 1 and they no longer work.
our link- July 17th
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg40675.html#msg40675 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3635.msg40675.html#msg40675)

http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Vader+sister+speaks+outside+court/3328229/story.html (http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Vader+sister+speaks+outside+court/3328229/story.html)

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
I was just sitting here thinking trying to put my self in the perps place and mind and I wonder WHAT in the heck did perps get from two sweet old people for them to deserve to be killed over..$5 bucks, $20 bucks? Saw there faces? If they had pulled over at a gas station people would remember it more than driving down 16 ..I feel the take over happened before jasper eastgate has you have to go thru a toll area and possibly having to wait in a long line up..Maybe the person that worked that weekend should be questioned..Have called eastgate manager and left message curious of webcams for that weekend too if they had one..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on January 06, 2011, 02:31:59 PM
Thank you, D1, I wondered if that's how it works.  Who would have the capability to edit the tape, or have that done?  And why?  Who, and/or what, would benefit by there being an altered version tape of the interview online now?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 06, 2011, 02:46:24 PM
All good questions...  if we had the original for comparison purposes, the difference shows what they want to or have been ordered to conceal. From there, " educated assumptions" could be drawn.

Still hoping someone saved the original..

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: Mom on January 06, 2011, 02:59:18 PM
....looks to me like there are 3 different microphones in Bobbi-Jo's face.
Global.... CTV.... and CHFM?
Which means.... there's potentially 3 different "versions" of the same video available.
I have access to archived sites... I'll plod around for awhile looking for older videos.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 05:12:09 PM
some one has seen that video D1. she is trying to get it again. she watched it today.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 06, 2011, 05:34:25 PM
still digging here mindy... history automatically erases. 

has anybody ever felt the police weren't thorough enough at this location?

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=203823574004532968407.00048b5d99343df923a0c&ll=54.101281,-115.927734&spn=1.117639,3.394775&z=8&iwloc=00048bbe10715c2cb5cd7&f=d&daddr=Fire+in+Niton+Junction+%4053.620208,-115.768433 (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=203823574004532968407.00048b5d99343df923a0c&ll=54.101281,-115.927734&spn=1.117639,3.394775&z=8&iwloc=00048bbe10715c2cb5cd7&f=d&daddr=Fire+in+Niton+Junction+%4053.620208,-115.768433)

...somebody here beside me worked out in Alberta ... has a mind set the couple was set upon at somewhere called Spruce something and disposed of just beyond there about 20 miles????

I'll try again to find that sidewalk video.... do remember the other woman shaking her head in agreement but BJ did the talking.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 05:45:41 PM
lost...spruce grove???.very interesting..20 miles which way? can this person provide more.who is someone beside u lost and where is this info coming from...they know 100%
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 05:48:49 PM
still digging here mindy... history automatically erases. 

has anybody ever felt the police weren't thorough enough at this location?

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=203823574004532968407.00048b5d99343df923a0c&ll=54.101281,-115.927734&spn=1.117639,3.394775&z=8&iwloc=00048bbe10715c2cb5cd7&f=d&daddr=Fire+in+Niton+Junction+%4053.620208,-115.768433 (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=203823574004532968407.00048b5d99343df923a0c&ll=54.101281,-115.927734&spn=1.117639,3.394775&z=8&iwloc=00048bbe10715c2cb5cd7&f=d&daddr=Fire+in+Niton+Junction+%4053.620208,-115.768433)

...somebody here beside me worked out in Alberta ... has a mind set the couple was set upon at somewhere called Spruce something and disposed of just beyond there about 20 miles????

I'll try again to find that sidewalk video.... do remember the other woman shaking her head in agreement but BJ did the talking.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 07:30:33 PM
have this video lost..thanks for trying..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 06, 2011, 07:50:23 PM
I just found that same CBC site I was on last night/early morning - says this article is no longer available.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 06, 2011, 09:11:22 PM
thanks lost..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 07, 2011, 04:59:11 PM
     wonder if these guys regardless of what they THINK their ages are , if involved with the mccanns or may know about it....did these guys get caught???? Not long after mccanns go missing this goes on??????     RCMP are investigating after two suspects made off with an ATM machine and several drawers of cigarettes from a gas station near Edson Tuesday.

Cops were called to the Niton Junction Esso gas station around 4 a.m. after suspects fled with the goods northbound down Niton North Road in a black Ford extended cab truck.

The men are believed to be between 16 and 30 years old and around 6 feet tall. They fit the description given to police just weeks earlier when another ATM was lifted from a store in nearby Peers, AB, on July 28.

Anyone with information is asked to call Edson RCMP.

Niton Junction was in the news last month after police found a missing St. Albert couple's SUV in the area, 150 km west of Edmonton.

Lyle and Marie McCann have been missing since the beginning of July.

Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 08, 2011, 04:43:36 PM
hi sap.As bret said they would of not stopped and as a avid camper we get what we need before camping..You kinda have to know campers ..Or we get what we need at our destination..Wish they had stopped somewhere where someone had remembered them but with so many RV,s on road no one pays attention..Im real curious of what vaders stepson said (feeling that )they have may of known the mccanns..In the oil fields did lyle ever deliver fuel there???. Really need a ex criminal on here to help...We cant think like a criminal..Like I,ve said before. Taking over a MH was a very guttsy thing so the mccanns must of been in the right position for the perps to do this.Wrong place. Wrong time..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 08, 2011, 05:04:18 PM
[quote Taking over a MH was a very guttsy thing so the mccanns must of been in the right position for the perps to do this.Wrong place. Wrong time..
][/quote]

Actually mindy;  I'm after being educated a bit about those on C Meth.   ...... seems that once you've tried it a few times, you are no longer the same person.  I've been told by a reliable source, that meth actually changes certain parts of the brain.  You become capable of "anything" it takes to get the $ for the next fix.... most always "spur of the moment" action to make such a move! ....guess it depends on when the brain demands this "fix".... it's like a green light going on in a meth head's brain; ....could be a God fearing person, but once that light goes on, you are a different person, totally changed ... capable of anything, and you can't fight it.  Your choices are no longer made by your brain, like in the past, because your brain has changed.

It seems Crystal Meth is in a catagory all its own .... and running the lives of most of those committing these "sudden" unexplained, unreasonable, illogical crimes.  I really think the McCanns either stopped for something they needed (like at the gas station) ... or else on the road.  They may have simply pulled over to pour a beverage and take a 5 minute break .... just at the point there was a desperate type/s behind them or coming by.  It would only take seconds for someone desperate, to pull over behind them and jump into their rig.  (I travel with my car doors locked... even in the day time; maybe they didn't)  Could also be that they were being followed right from the "gas stop" and innocently "gave in to a wave to pull over" thinking they had a mechanicle problem which somebody was attempting to call their attention to. 

I always wondered if any cars were left abandoned for any length of time on the McCann's travelled route????
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 08, 2011, 07:52:45 PM
Well I guess until winter is over nothing will become of this and maybe not even after unless police have tips they cant persue until the snow is gone...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: superbee on January 08, 2011, 08:05:19 PM
Mindy, the July posting from Vader's teenage son or stepson I'm sure was on the McCann Facebook page, in one of the Discussion groups.  I read it more than once.  He said the McCanns looked familiar to him for some reason.  I was surprised that more was not made of his statement.  Knowing Lyle had been a trucker for a long time, in various places, and on various routes, I wondered if Lyle or Marie had ever met, or knew, any of the Vader family.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 09, 2011, 10:13:23 AM
I do not own a Motorhome.....BUT...I do know that I/we would stop on the road somewhere, to buy groceries...especially fresh bread, and definitely a Tim Horton's coffee..
We cannot generalize with saying the McCanns did it such and such way....we don't know.....we need facts.
I think Vader's stepson just wants to talk..he probably hates Vader...wouldn't put too much stock in what he has to say.   just my opinion.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: frickandfrack68 on January 09, 2011, 10:19:27 AM
It is odd that the SUV was not burned to hide the perps evidence, but perhaps the perps figured if they torched it, it wouldn't give them enough time to get away.  So they ditched it down the Range Rd. #144, which is a NO EXIT road. 

well maybe vador had a 4 wheeler or somthing waiting for him in the wooded area
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 09, 2011, 12:05:24 PM
Yes frickandfrack, I already said something similar.  But I think the perps didn't torch the SUV because they used it off and on....and would have continued to use it, had it not finally been spotted.   It was left on RR#144...as it was not too close, and not too far from home.    My opinion, only,.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 09, 2011, 12:14:51 PM
It will be tough for anyone to wade through this entire dicussion thread now but thats just the way it is. This is a case that started out in a very strange manner and has gotten worse since. There is a very unusual set of circumstance here which no one can fully understand given the information we are privy to.

The McCaans are no more expert than us in understanding what is taking place or what should be done about it. They have placed their hopes in finding their parents with the RCMP as most would, what else do you do?

A private investigator is required to get anywhere with this IMO but with Vader arrested and the illusion of charges to follow, it will be a long time before that idea is likely to be entertained. In the meantime as we have seen, important little pieces of imformation and evidence are being lost or reconstructed. All we can do is keep note of and make reference to what we find and maybe someday it will all make sense.

Right now, it's all open for debate:
re:
Quote
It is odd that the SUV was not burned to hide the perps evidence, but perhaps the perps figured if they torched it, it wouldn't give them enough time to get away.  So they ditched it down the Range Rd. #144, which is a NO EXIT road. 

well maybe vador had a 4 wheeler or somthing waiting for him in the wooded area


I agree this is an odd thing, whoever was driving that and left it where they did, took a huge risk of leaving some trace evidence behind. Why is a good question, the motorhome was torched and there was a suspicious fire at an acreage just up the road a few miles.

So, in regard to -
Quote
but perhaps the perps figured if they torched it, it wouldn't give them enough time to get away

Why pick that spot to ditch the suv then? Why not pick a spot where it could be torched and leave time for escape like with the motorhome?

Jobo, has an explanation and by that, there should be a ton of evidence left behind. The RCMP seem to be indicating otherwise. The identities of the other people seen with Vader in the suv if the sightings are true, should all be known. There should be so much from eye witness accounts to fingerprints and dna that this case should be a no brainer. Whats going on?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 09, 2011, 01:24:03 PM
I think D1 that in these small little hick towns the bad ones stick together and as once stated they all feared vader. Not racist in anyway but there are alot of asian business owners up there which may form asian drug related gangs.Its in no way at least to me a high profile rich area up there. Most drugs prob gotten out of the area like edson etc..It was also known that bulmer always kept his gate locked too..To get the MH I would think it had to of been pulled over for some reason without anything suspicious looking going on for anyone to take notice..There is one place the MHand SUV would of been noticed and thats the toll booth area of the jasper east gate..You are actually talking to people taking money etc so since no one from there has said nothing the mccanns less likely made it that far..Theres enough truckers on that route too on 16 . They notice everything. Surprised no trucker can recall the MH on 16 or at a truck stop..AND lyle as a ex trucker You would hope he would of had a CB RADIO....
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: frickandfrack68 on January 09, 2011, 02:45:37 PM
sry jobo.. i dont know  the area  around there i live in ontario
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 09, 2011, 02:55:48 PM
Oh, hey....I didn't mean to make you apologize.   I was just agreeing by saying I had mentioned that scenerio in the past.   ;)
I too, live in Ontario, but lived around Calgary for 10 years.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 09, 2011, 07:35:08 PM
All in all the police have more info than we can imagine and they still havent found the Mccanns...Starting to feel a little beaten down. and winter isnt even close to being over..
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 09, 2011, 08:37:38 PM
For some reason, everytime I read comments on this thread again, the same bottom line trend of thinking hits me  ..... that being

we know the McCanns:
weren't abducted for the body parts.
weren't abducted for sexual crime.
weren't kidnapped for ransom.
very unlikely is it a pay-back abduction.
 
All is left is what desperate types could get out of their wallet and/or credit cards.
....................................................     could get out of their RV and SUV


We know they didn't get anything for the MH (as to resell by switching id plates etc...at least people here insist it was a fake burn to steal the original for resale.)
We know they didn't get anything for SUV because they abandoned it.

All is left is that something or everything went wrong; either Lyle took a heart attack and Marie went into panic and defense.
.........................................................................................or    they tried to defend themselves and the perp/s went crazy.
.........................................................................................or else, it was a gang initiation crime, or punks proving themselves.

There's nothing else left except to find their bodies... which means thinking like the killer/s.

If it was punks or gangs, they would dispose of them immediately, and they probably would have been found by now, unless of course this all happened just beyond where they gased up the MH.

If it was indeed Vader and/or he was even involved, chances are, they were disposed of by his choice of means at the time.  So how would Vader think under those circumstances.... needing a fix and out of control and patience .... I wonder would he just use his life-time experience in deciding where/how to dispose of them - or - would he use his work experiences too .... as in what he has learned about the ground, water, soil, air, local climate..... the things you can't help paying attention to, and being enlighted about, when you work at jobs such as in the oil fields, in the woods, at sea, on farms... etc.

I'll bet old buddies he worked with have that figured out already.... even family members he may have had more adventures with, or confided in more than other family members. 

The only other thought that has haunted me all these months, I felt if I mentioned it, I would get jumped on with a comment about how deranged and far fetched the thought is... so what the heck!  here goes!

Do anybody ever wonder if one (just one) of the many forest fires at the time, was set to dispose of two bodies.  And with all the heat and suffering of firefighters and volunteers, it's "highly"  possible nobody ever came across all that was lost/hidden in those terrible blazes.  There I said it; I feel better.... even if it is far fetched.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 09, 2011, 10:53:48 PM
post got lost but @LOST.. i for got what I said.. have to reread your post.. :)
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: momo on January 09, 2011, 11:42:08 PM
I have followed but never posted.  When it was brought up that Bobbi Jo said Travis was staying with friends I thought I had gotten something mixed up cause I too thought she said he stayed with her.  After searching a while I found what I remembered.   http://updatednews.ca/?p=30263 (http://updatednews.ca/?p=30263)  Should she not be charged for letting him stay when she knew he was wanted on outstanding warrants?
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: lostlinganer on January 09, 2011, 11:49:17 PM
real good point momo;  I was just talking with a friend about this case.  We were actually talking about how different every news article involving Bobbojoe is.  I personally wouldn't believe two words from her now.  I wouldn't be shocked if her brother wasn't dropped off at her place.... maybe she brought him there herself???.... that's what my friend and I were just discussing.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: D1 on January 10, 2011, 01:24:11 AM
It is the press that is twisting and altering Bobbie Joe's words, Bobbie went on record, did an interview right in front of the court house. As far as i know, she hasn't deviated from her original story. Too bad we don't have the original video.

If looking backwards for a motive that could result in things like this happening, also recall how the case first began. According to Criminologist Bill Pitt " bungled right from the start". RCMP involvement in a deliberate delay to report? A coverup? Press ordered to edit the video showing Esther beside Bobbie Joe during the interview? Bigger stuff going on than anyone knows?

Similar circumstance happened in the Mindy Tran case, the "suspect" was WORKING FOR THE RCMP. He was held on other charges for years before being charged with that crime. By then, news reports had been altered and witnessses had been taken care of.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4133.msg48825.html#msg48825 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,4133.msg48825.html#msg48825)

What happened to the witnesses in the Mindy Tran case? Notice the lack of witnesses coming forward here?
http://www.mindytran.com/witnessstories.htm (http://www.mindytran.com/witnessstories.htm)



Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 10, 2011, 06:02:01 AM
I would think we have to be careful with the newspaper accounts.  I find these days that many news accounts are different, depending on what station you watch, what paper you read.    I  take what they have to say with a grain of salt.

BobbiJo did say Travis was tired and hungry....and when questioned about the vehicle....I think she answered the way the cops/lawyers told her to answer; her demeanor seems to change at that question.....They didn't want that info in the public.....just my opinion.

I want to back up here to the search at the rest stop near Niton.    The cops went there and did a search.....nothing.   But Why were they there?   Did the McCanns pull in there for a break?  At the beginning a scrap yard was also mentioned....Seems to me there was several places searched....but nothing?  Wonder how competant and careful the searches were.
I just wish I had faith that they searched close enough..and long enough at that rest stop.
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: 24mindy on January 10, 2011, 02:45:03 PM
how dense is the tree area around there. Wouldnt it be risky to try to haul off bodies or even live ones at a rest stop incase people came along. they would of had to of hit a back road with MH to not be seen..Somewhere they knew to go and fast. At least that is what i would do..Burning the MH had all the evidence the cops would of needed. Rats on that...They didnt burn SUV with MH I guess needing it to get out..When did second vehicle get involved?? IF ONE....How many people up there would of gotten involved knowing this was cold blood murder...OR accidentel and in panic just did what ever hiding out until they figured out what to do..If a accident they would be in sheer panic and would have to hide out..maybe they figured they would take MH to minnowlake and just desert it there...Then thought not such a good idea burning it a beter quick idea....Did the SUV come and go from the campsite  at minnowlake. There should of been a better interview for a us to see by that camper guy but he did get interviewed enough by the police...
Title: Re: Lyle and Marie McCann part 2
Post by: jobo on January 10, 2011, 04:22:45 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of:  What if Vader and company planned to rob the next vehicle that pulled into the rest stop near Niton?    It was the McCanns.   Mr McCann resisted and things went real bad from there.   
Vader and company got to this spot on a 4 wheeler..and hid it in the bush...so when the next v