Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Other Topics => Serial Killers In Canada => Russell Williams => Topic started by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 04:10:30 AM

Title: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 04:10:30 AM
There are apparently thirty or so murder investigations currently underway in which Russel Williams is a suspect. Several threads on this board have begun discussing Williams in relation to various murders we have listed on here. All of those connections are a little difficult to find without reading through the entire board.
So If we could post all the suspected victims names and links together here under one heading as they arise it would help. Just post a link back to each individual victims thread when possible.

First there was

Cpl. Marie-France Comeau,

and
Jessica Lloyd
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3203.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3203.0.html)

then
Kathleen MacVicar http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,215.msg32546/boardseen.html#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,215.msg32546/boardseen.html#new)


Margaret Williams name has been brought up
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3219.new/boardseen.html#new (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3219.new/boardseen.html#new)

The latest speculation centers around
 Elizabeth Bain
news- http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/11/12845941.htm (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/11/12845941.htm)

see more - http://www.google.ca/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=Elizabeth+Bain+murder&meta=&btnG=Google+Search (http://www.google.ca/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=Elizabeth+Bain+murder&meta=&btnG=Google+Search)


 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 04:25:08 AM
People are asking questions about Col. Williams in relation to Penny Warne:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2684.30.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,2684.30.html)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 03:41:52 PM
Janice Louise Howe, is being mentioned from Williams time in Manitoba..

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3211.msg32524.html#msg32524 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3211.msg32524.html#msg32524)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on February 13, 2010, 04:48:57 PM
Bain, Baltovich(her ex), Bernardo, and Col Williams all went to UofT Scarborough,  Col.Williams and Bernardo graduated in 1987....I believe Bain and Baltovich were still attending the Scar. campus, when she disappeared in 1990.  The link is geography......
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on February 13, 2010, 06:34:57 PM
jobo, yes, Bain was attending U of T ( Scarborough campus) the night she disappeared..not sure about Baltovich ( I think so) but he claims he went to meet her after class.
yes, it's geography..I believe from the timeline Williams was here in Trenton in /90..from Trenton to Scarborough is is mere 1 & 1/2 drive. Back then, it likely took less time.
I read a book years ago regarding this crime.  In the book it was mentioned Elizabeth Bain kept a diary in her room ( at her parent's home) , some of which became key to Baltovich's conviction as pages were missing.  However, there were entries relating to someone new she had met and and was very excited. 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 06:51:54 PM
Was there ever any indication as to how or when the pages came to be removed from her diary? Before or after Elizabeths murder investigation began?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on February 13, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
Also.....witness's say they saw her with a blond guy...her car found not too far from the #401, and Elizabeth was a lovely brunette........and they say there was a handprint on her car, so it is possible a connection could be made right now with that handprint...Also there was a private investigator involved (I believe for Baltivich). And Baltivich had the best lawyer around, so I would bet he'll want to know more, as he spent many years in jail for a crime he didn't commit.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: haunted on February 13, 2010, 07:54:42 PM
I am unfamiliar with Elizabeth Bain's case. I found the following time line that brought some of the pieces together:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/baltovich_robert/

It is a lengthy article but makes several references to evidence that existed that pointed to Bernardo. Is it a situation where it was never pursued against him because he was already convicted and found a dangerous offender? Or was there not enough evidence to pursue? Either way, whatever they had it was enough for Baltovich to be found not guilty.

With reference to the possible connection between Bernardo and Williams, I believe it is possible the media has blown it out of proportion. Were they 'friends' or were they classmates who didn't even know each other? Is it a coincidence? What is interesting to me is that the percentage of people out of the population who commit crimes like Bernardo and like the crimes alleged against Williams, is very minute. The statistical anomaly that these two men were at the same educational institution, in the same or similar programs, were there at the same time and may or may not have known each other is significant. The likelihood that those who commit crimes like this don't just begin doing so during mid-life.  Certainly it is going to be investigated in due course.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on February 13, 2010, 08:16:50 PM
The connection with Bernardo and Williams, from what I gather, Is that they lived in the same vicinity, they graduated the same year from UofT Scar.campus, they may have known each other but I don't see these type of perps. discussing their criminal behaviors with each other. One would not know what the other was up to unless they did a crime or 2 together, which I highly doubt, but, that is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: haunted on February 13, 2010, 08:35:41 PM
jobo, I don't disagree with you at all.

It is unlikely that they acted together and/or even knew of the others crimes if any existed during that time period, or even knew each other all together.  

It is statistically interesting to me though, that out of the entire population that two men (one allegedly) committng these crimes were in very close proximity to each other for a period of their young adult years. It appears during these years that Bernardo may have been actively committing crimes.  I do not know if Williams was or was not. It is possible he began exhibiting sociopathic behaviour during that period of time but who knows whether it manifested into violent criminal acts.   

 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 11:50:37 PM
Another victim?
Deborah Rashotte

Quote
On the same day that Jessica Lloyd was laid to rest by her family, another local woman was being reported missing by Belleville police.

Belleville Police Chief, Cory McMullan said police are asking for information about Deborah Rashotte who was last seen about a month ago

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2448289

more: http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3223.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3223.0.html)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: debbiec on February 14, 2010, 12:05:06 AM

I'm certainly wondering why there was so little information released to the public about the disappearance of Deborah Rashotte. Perhaps RCMP didn't want to cause too much panic? I would think that to the contrary it would have caused them to diligently warn women about the immediate danger.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Militarybrat on February 14, 2010, 02:23:25 AM
On a facebook post, it was said that Deborah was known to disappear for weeks at a time. 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: TinaS on February 14, 2010, 03:03:36 AM
Yes, and purse/cell left behind as well.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on February 14, 2010, 08:12:18 AM
D1 re: missing diary pages

I truly can't recall how the pages went missing.  If memory serves me correctly, in the days following Elizabeth Bain's disapearance, Robert Baltovich was at the home of her parents quite frequently in the hope of aiding in the search.  It was my understanding he borrowed Elizabeth's diary and later returned it, apparently with pages removed..Baltovich denied doing so.  The missing diary pages ( as well as other circumstantial evidence) played a large part in his initial conviction.

 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on February 14, 2010, 01:59:20 PM
That would explain why Elizabeths parents still believe Baltovich was responsible to this day.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on February 14, 2010, 04:29:04 PM
D1, I would imagine this to be the case for most famlies when someone is convicted of such a crime and later released.  I believe little Christine Jessops mother felt the same way for awhile even after DNA cleared Guy Paul Moran. 

The book I previously spoke of regarding Baltovich is called "No Claim to Mercy" by Derek Finkle.  I read it quite some time ago so much is a bit hazy.  In the book there is much information regarding witness' and such but a few bits and pieces of information given to Toronto police never made it to Baltovich's defense in the trial.  For the most part, Toronto Police focused in and around U of T as this was the last place she was seen and seemed to disregard anything elsewhere. 

But there was another witness and it came to me today.  A man who worked at GM in Oshawa ( just a few miles east of Toronto)  was driving to work heading eastbound on the 401 hwy on the day Elizabeth Bain disappeared, June 19, 1990.  He reported to police that a car pulled up beside him in the left lane and a girl he later identified as Elizabeth Bain was passenger in the vehicle.  She looked right at him and then the car sped off.  That piece of information was with held from Baltovich's lawyer.

Now, given that Williams, in 1990, was stationed at the time in Trenton AND he had previously lived in the area of Elizabeth Bain as well as U of T
( Scarborough campus)  who's to say the man driving that car that day was not Williams?  The 401 is a main link between Toronto and Trenton.     
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on February 15, 2010, 08:44:01 AM
Are you sure he was driving the BMW, I thought they said he was driving his Pathfinder...I, like you am torn between thinking he just "boiled over" recently, or if he "dabbled" in murder here and there since young manhood...(from all that I know and have read, these kind of perps start young, when the testesterone is kicking in)..And I thought the same as you, yes he certainly knew about Bernardo's crimes, at the very least, at the same time as the rest of us.  Would that knowledge make Williams want to commit brutal crimes in the '90's  or did he keep "the lid on" until 2009?  Reports say he took his parents' divorce very hard (2001?) and it caused a rift in the family, that they tried to mend a few years later, to no avail. Would that have kept him away from Toronto? Was that his "breaking point"  We need to know more about this guy. I read somewhere, that behind his back, in the military, he was called  "Mr By the Book",a stickler for the rules, by some.  In many ways he fits a serial killer profile.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on February 15, 2010, 06:46:51 PM

Regarding the vehicle with unique tire tread..it was the Pathfinder, his wife had the BMW, it was found parked in the driveway of the house they owned in Ottawa. The year/color of the Pathfinder has never been disclosed nor the brand of the " unique tires."  But if this how the OPP nabbed him..and this is posted here on a link, hat's off to the astute observations by that OPP constable.  Guess this was the the only base Willaims didn't cover.

In my opinion, Williams likely figured the police, ANY police enforement are a bunch of buffoons, hence the slip up with the tires..or perhaps he was so high and lofty on himself given his position and the bucks he rakes in, he had no clue how the rest of the populace lives..look at his home in Ottawa..700 grand..his "cottage" in Tweed..no cottage..it's a sprawling spacial home.  And then there's the home he owns on base at CFB Trenton that is rented. 

It has never been mentioned that Bernado did B&E's..he peeped in early years and one time was caught.  He escalated to rapes, usually following his victims as they exited a bus late at night, dragging them into bushes.  He became more violent with each crime.  But Bernado never killed anyone until after he met Karla Homolka.  They married and from then on worked as a team, killing 3 girls..one was Karla's younger sister, Tammy.. the others were Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French.  Bernardo is in Kingston pen, seving 25 yrs to life with tnat the hope of parole as he has been deemed a " dangerous offender"  his wife Karla made a plea bargain, served 12 years and is now a free woman, living in the Carribean..  Canadian justice, eh? 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on March 04, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
There was a story posted February 10, 2010 by Columnist Mike Strobel from the Toronto Sun that interviewed one of the women who survived the alleged rape by Williams. He interviewed her after Williams' arrest. It turns my stomach when the article reports that she did not know Col. Williams, but to say hello. The article clarifies, "Shortly after Christmas, she drove past his front yard on Cosy Cove Lane. She waved. He waved back."  It makes you wonder how a person like Williams can live with himself and his actions?

http://news.jonzu.com/z_middle-east_one-of-the-surviving-victims-of-col-russ-williams-speaks-out.html
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on March 05, 2010, 03:47:21 PM
Concerned,  I can well appreciate your comment, any normal person would.  Williams is not "normal" his is a psychopath, with more than likely sociopathtic tendencies.  They have no remorse.  The sick thing is that after this poor unknowing victim waved at him, he was more than likely re-living the night he raped her.  Perhaps her wave made him feel even more confident he wouldn't be caught..

I think she was very brave to speak with Mike Strobel, I believe it's the only interview she has given. 

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on March 05, 2010, 03:54:03 PM
An article about Williams from an experts point of view.


http://news.globaltv.com/world/Serial+killers+become+chameleons+away+with+murder+Experts/2542695/story.html
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: phsycic dreams on April 19, 2010, 03:57:12 PM
DEBORAH RASHOTTE???
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on April 19, 2010, 04:12:18 PM
I thinks so
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: capeheart on April 26, 2010, 04:57:36 PM
Am, I have sent you a message that I would like you to read on here. I will also forward it to PDreams. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on July 29, 2010, 06:01:34 AM
There's no doubt in my mind, Debra R. was a victim of R Williams.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on July 29, 2010, 09:31:24 AM
They had some one on TV last night that was saying most serial killers start off by stealing panties....All I can say is I am glad Williams was caught sooner rather than later.
I picture his wife as being short, with short dark hair and quite plain looking........I have never seen her pic.  I think Williams is cold looking....the only thing (in my eyes) that he had going for him was his title, and the money that went with it. ;)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on August 30, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
art-hu..sorry I have missed your comment for so very long but I am totally in agreement with you.  But Debrorah was a throw away in LE eyes, one with mental illness, easily pushed under the covers of the "who cares"
From the beginning, Belleville police kept saying RW was not responsible and yet they had no idea where Deborah was.
I have always wondered how LE could make such a judgement and search so dilligently for Jessica Lloyd who disappeared from her home in Belleville 2 days after Deborah.
There's no doubt in my mind, Debra R. was a victim of R Williams.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on August 31, 2010, 07:03:01 AM
R. Williams would never admit to taking a mentally unstable women. That would not be up to his prestigious standards. It was too late by the time he realized her unstable condition, and carried on with his own psychotic plan.
 Jessica and Debra were likely together.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: lostlinganer on August 31, 2010, 03:08:22 PM
am and art; I think you guys could be right.  This was when he was "really out there on a mission".... fact is, perhaps the opportunity presented itself, and he couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on September 06, 2010, 03:45:34 PM
I have never had a doubt either that RW abducted Deborah.  She disappeared two days before Jessica.  Deborah was a beautiful girl with that head of long red hair, she was short on funds and likely thumbing a ride and I figure RW just happened to pick her up.  But of course we will never know the truth as it would be quite demeaning for RW to admit her abducted and murdered one with mental issues.  It has always bothered me that Belleville police have always stated from day one that RW was not involved as she was "not his type"  How did or do they know??? 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on September 06, 2010, 03:55:54 PM
I, too, have wondered if this is a possibility. Let's face it, there are not too many cases of a woman treated in the manner in which RW allegedly treated both murder victims and in the timeframe that they took place. The second one he left out like someone would discard garbage. With total disrespect. That leads me to wonder with the close proximity of these three woman to RW, is there any way that maybe Deborah may have seen or heard something she shouldn't have--perhaps Lloyd's assault or abduction?  If so, could RW have killed Deborah so there wasn't a witness?

I have never had a doubt either that RW abducted Deborah.  She disappeared two days before Jessica.  Deborah was a beautiful girl with that head of long red hair, she was short on funds and likely thumbing a ride and I figure RW just happened to pick her up.  But of course we will never know the truth as it would be quite demeaning for RW to admit her abducted and murdered one with mental issues.  It has always bothered me that Belleville police have always stated from day one that RW was not involved as she was "not his type"  How did or do they know???
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on September 06, 2010, 06:45:53 PM
 "Not his type",  what is his type.???  Long hair, short hair, dark hair, light hair. " Red hair."  Seems to me, anyone is his type. 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on September 08, 2010, 05:37:21 AM
art-hu, good question.  "What is his type?"  So far all I can come up with is:

Those that have a place, they come home to.
Roommates - Those that he roomed with.
Neighbors - Those that live around him that have a home within a vacinity of his home.
Co-workers - Those he works with (at base, at the university he went to)

For some odd reason, he liked to lurk in the shadows and watch people. (roommates, neighbors, co-workers)
He would break into places (windows, doors, closets) and allegedly watch, surprise, photograph, abduct, assault, and murder.
He would keep going back, at least once to allegedly sexually assault. At least once to allegedly sexually assault, and then murder.
He went on their computers, looked through their photographs, and searched in some really odd places for panties.
He took things that reminded him of going there, and kept them at the house he resided and the house his wife resided.

And, he occasionally would go miles and miles without sleep to be at a function far away, in a timeframe that seemed unrealistic to cover his trail. Or, in the evening before or after a huge power trip event. Or, supposedly, after his wife fell asleep and he snuck out without her knowledge. He even had conversations with neighbors about locations that the neighbor frequented, and dumped a person he murdered on that location. Interestingly, that same neighbor had a break in where some of his items with fingerprints were all over.  So I guess you could say, he pre-meditated crimes, cover-ups, and alibi's.

So that begs to ask, if he had been doing some of these activities in college (hiding in closets, hiding in offices, bothering ex-girlfriends), then what else did he do, pre-meditate, cover-up and obtain alibi's for from the time he went to the university until the time he was arrested?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: lostlinganer on September 08, 2010, 09:55:27 PM
Great post Concerned!  Can I please throw in two cents here.
Quote
It has always bothered me that Belleville police have always stated from day one that RW was not involved as she was "not his type"  How did or do they know???

I said that in the beginning as well.  ....and what I meant (and I think I may have explained at the time)  RW would normally not have had the chance to stalk Deborah, because she was "moving around too much" so if he did take her too, it must be that she was standing on a corner or on a road... maybe hitchhiking .... and saw him where he shouldn't have been.... maybe they made eye contact, because he looked at her and wouldn't, nor couldn't give her a lift (maybe had a body on board or crime clothes on) and/or she could place him at a certain spot ... a certain time .... thus he may have thought twice, backed up, and gave her a drive after all!  Also, being as she was trying to get herself to a more rural neighborhood than city, she may have actually seen him turn on to where he dumped the body, or pulled over to "finish off a victim" - so he had to do it hurriedly, and then rush and catch her too.  Also; he may have noticed her in the first place trying to get a ride (under whatever circumstances he was trapped in that would prevent him from picking her up right there and then) and their eyes met because she was his type; so he may have decided to go real crazy and do two for one .... as he was getting more into it as time progressed it seams.  jmo!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on September 08, 2010, 10:40:49 PM
All good thoughts Lost. Although I've often thought should could have been hitchhiking as it was cold and she was trying to visit a parent that lived that way, and may have been walking that road he travels home; or should could have been wrong place wrong time and seen something she was not suppose to see (a vehicle traveling down the wrong road, heard screams, seen transport body, etc.)---one other thought has always bothered me. Remember when Deborah went missing....her purse and cell were at her parents house she was suppose to be there to get some rest. She never left home without her cell. And, well...RW supposedly lurked in houses, and is alleged to have disposed of a body. To me, that fits.  I think they said she wasn't his type because she lived in the vacinity of his work, and not his home (his usual playing field). But who knows...he may have frequented some of those houses too....why not...did he jog near and around work, too?

Great post Concerned!  Can I please throw in two cents here.
Quote
It has always bothered me that Belleville police have always stated from day one that RW was not involved as she was "not his type"  How did or do they know???

I said that in the beginning as well.  ....and what I meant (and I think I may have explained at the time)  RW would normally not have had the chance to stalk Deborah, because she was "moving around too much" so if he did take her too, it must be that she was standing on a corner or on a road... maybe hitchhiking .... and saw him where he shouldn't have been.... maybe they made eye contact, because he looked at her and wouldn't, nor couldn't give her a lift (maybe had a body on board or crime clothes on) and/or she could place him at a certain spot ... a certain time .... thus he may have thought twice, backed up, and gave her a drive after all!  Also, being as she was trying to get herself to a more rural neighborhood than city, she may have actually seen him turn on to where he dumped the body, or pulled over to "finish off a victim" - so he had to do it hurriedly, and then rush and catch her too.  Also; he may have noticed her in the first place trying to get a ride (under whatever circumstances he was trapped in that would prevent him from picking her up right there and then) and their eyes met because she was his type; so he may have decided to go real crazy and do two for one .... as he was getting more into it as time progressed it seams.  jmo!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: lostlinganer on September 08, 2010, 11:24:53 PM
My gosh C.   ??? I know people will think we are going too far out there, but isn't that actually quite possible?  He was definitely diabolical enough, and pragmatic enough, to fenture into the house, via her address, (or information on her cell phone) and plant her few belongings as a cover/distraction, so the investigating authorities wouldn't connect the three.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on September 11, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
"No, we are not going too far out there".  Yes, it is quite possible.!! 
 I think Debra would be quite happy to know, that at least a few of us believe this is what happened to her.!!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on October 09, 2010, 01:45:34 PM
R. Williams would never admit to taking a mentally unstable women. That would not be up to his prestigious standards. It was too late by the time he realized her unstable condition, and carried on with his own psychotic plan.
 Jessica and Debra were likely together.

Ya know Art-hu, I agree completely that RW would never admit to kidnapping and murdering  Deborah and for the same reasons you have stated.  Outwardly she was a strikingly beautiful  tall woman, with gorgeous mane of red hair.  I'm sure she turned a considerable amount of heads as she walked along..unfortunately, IMO RW was one of them. 

It is also my opinion as well, Deborah was attempting to hitch hike up to Tweed to see family..the are no buses that run that way, and even if there was she had no funds.  This was RW's route home to Cosy Cove Lane, it went right by Jessica Lloyd's home ( his last victim..and how convenient..RW didn't even have to drive out of his way)  I as well think Jessica and Deborah were together at some point.  Really, what are the chances that two young women, roughly the same age, disappear in a town the size of Belleville on approximately the same day?   But LE consistently kept repeating the two cases were not linked....I asked WHY way back in the beginning of this thread and after RW's arrest..because he said??   After all, it was not Belleville police that obtained his admission to both the murders of Marie France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd..it was the OPP..at the time, were they even aware of Deborah?? When they executed the search for evidence at his cozy cottage in Tweed and discovered Jessica's keys..were they informed as well  to seek evidence in the case of Deborah??

Yes, in the eyes of a killer such as RW, to discover your chosen victim is less than mentally perfect would really be such a blow to his ego.   Outward appearances can be very deceiving as RW's past history and admission of guilt has shown.



Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: lostlinganer on October 09, 2010, 09:33:24 PM
It matters not who's who imho;  I firmly believe RW will not admit one little think that LE doesn't already have clear, qualified facts on, about him.  I don't think he would volunteer anything.  I wager after he's locked away a few years, then more of his crimes will come to light one way or another. 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 10, 2010, 06:58:59 AM
Does anyone remember the comment made about Deborah when people were looking for her....she may have witnessed a crime and the perp was looking for her?  She was afraid because she was afraid of the powerful person.  If you recall, her family didn't take her seriously because, well, she had a medical condition and they didn't always know if it was her condition talking or for real. But her friends felt strongly that this was for real. Remember, friends had said she was afraid to be be brought in to tell what she knows because she feared the perp(s)?.....and that no one would believe her?   

(In hindsight, doesn't it kind of fit now?)

If we are going to go out there with theories based on what was known at the time of Deborah:  She saw a crime by the perp. They knew her testimony would be questioned because of her medical question. She felt no one would believe her. She was very afraid. She was intimidated. She thought she was being followed. She was having troubles communicating with the phone. She was fearful for her life. Her friend and current roommate said she went to her parent's house in Belleville to get a some sleep and was planning to go up to see her father (up in RW neighborhood whose walking path is the stretch of river and/or road RW travels back and forth to work and Jessica lives on). Her purse, cell, coat (doesn't this sound familiar?) was all found at the parent's Belleville house (which suggests she at least made it there) but she was never seen again.  She goes missing in the very timeframe that Jessica goes missing. She was found in the river (with something over her head...sound familiar?) and Jessica was found in a field.  All in the vacinity of where RW worked and lived and on the path to and from (Coincidental? When he is been shown to perform crimes in/and around work and in/and around home and on the path to/and from home and work?).

What are the chances that Belleville and Tweed have two murders in incredibly close timeframe without a history of having these problems otherwise? And, what are the chances that a perp who has at least proven to have escalating crimes of that nature at that time around work and home?

Could the evidence regarding Deborah have been too easy to put holes in, thus not strong enough to build a solid case?  Could there have been some improprieties from some authorities in the Deborah case, that if exposed would hamper the cooperation on the Maria case?

(In hindsight, doesn't it kind of all seem to fit now?)

If he was convicted of three crimes, wouldn't he be a dangerous offender?

(just some IMO thoughts)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: debbiec on October 10, 2010, 09:26:41 AM
Quote
If he was convicted of three crimes, wouldn't he be a dangerous offender?

I'm not positive Concerned, but I remember posting something on 'dangerous offender status' on another case. I think a person has to be 'declared' a dangerous offender.

Does anyone know for sure?

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: capeheart on October 10, 2010, 11:55:59 AM
Yes, I do  believe that it is if convicted three times and I think they may even have changed that. Now one has to be declared a dangerous offender and that is how they keep them behind bars, once that has been established. Concerned, I do believe that Deborah was murdered, I'm with you on that one. And I think RW was the person who committed this crime. I do believe that Deborah was afraid of someone, as she had stated. That was not a paranoid situation with her, she knew someone was following her. At least Williams is pleading guilty to all the charges that are against him at this time, which is quite high, I believe 82 charges related to B&E offences. Pleading guilty is good for the court system, but the real truth of it is, Williams does not want all of the gory details to be stated in court. When the conclusion of the court depositions and everything is completed, a brief description of the crimes will be stated in court and the descriptive gory details of what he has done will not be repeated in the courtroom. And the fact that he is pleading guilty, that is still keeping him from being in the public eye for very long and actually is the easy way out. Hopefully he will never get out of jail, that he will die in prison. :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 10, 2010, 12:31:10 PM
According to this article, dated May 27, 2010, CBC reports
- the Criminal Code of Canada was changed in 2008 requiring some repeat offenders to prove that they are not a danger to society, instead of putting the burden on the Crown.
- As of April 2009 there were 415 people designated as danger offenders, and all but 20 of them are behind bars, because even dangerous offenders can apply for parole after seven years.
- 179 dangerous offenders, according to a 2002 Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) profile, shoes 85% committed sex offences, and 3% were convicted of a homicide.
- Most dangerous offender provisions are in custody for sexual offences (85%), pedophilia (41%), and most target children, elderly or disabled, when compared to the general inmate population.
- Get this!!  the CSC report reported that 31% of dangerous offenders have NEVER served a federal sentence.
- There seems to be a disproportionate statistics in two main areas of the CSC finding: 1) there are no female dangerous offenders, and 2) Aboriginal people account for 24% of dangerous offenders, but just 4% of the total population. 

There are two designations used prior to 1977 ("habitual offender" and "dangerous sexual offender") which in 1977 was technically now called one term "dangerous offender."  So, in addition to the 415 "dangerous offenders" designated after 1977 change, 41 are still "dangerous sexual offenders" and 9 are "habitual offenders" in the system. 10 of the 41 "dangerous sexual offenders" are still behind bars.

It confirms that three convictions are required to be under consideration as a "dangerous offender" and it also points out that that does not mean the person will serve life without parole.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/dangerous-offenders.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/dangerous-offenders.html)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Woodland on October 10, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Concerned - I really like your analysis regarding Deborah.  I think it's very well thought out and plausible.

Just becasue someone has difficulty with their thought process, memory etc, it does not mean one can't rely on anything they say.  Even a calculating liar inputs elements of truth in their stories (Misty Croslin?).  I'm reminded of the drug addict that tried to tell LE about our infamous pig farmer from BC before others became one of his victims.  Yes she was having a little trouble with her thoughts due to drugs - but writing her off caused grief beyond description.

We need new experts with some new open minded research.

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on October 11, 2010, 06:42:33 PM
   What if Williams was driving along, planning his abduction/murder on Jessica....and he spotted Deborah hitch-hiking.  When he saw her, his (sick, disturbed) fantasy was interrupted......
   'Mr By The Rules' became enraged to see this 'young stupid girl' hitchiking out to nowhere at night.   (Forgive me for saying that, I am saying what he would think)...'That's it', he thinks, 'I'll teach her a lesson'..
   It was not planned, as to the different MO (not going to Deborah's house).   But it may have been a more spur of the moment rage crime.
   Or, would he take such a chance?  That is very risky.  Unless he picked her up and  held Deborah captive for a while...I cannot remember how long it took to find her after she was reported missing....can anyone refresh me, please?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on October 11, 2010, 08:14:01 PM
 jobo, the scenario that you have pictured very likely actually happened, probably close to how you are seeing it. Although he may have actually stalked Deborah for sometime prior to picking her up. Deborah went missing, or was last heard from on Jan.23, and found on Friday April 16. I do believe that R.W. held Deborah captive, alongside Jessica Lloyd. Deborah was very adimate that someone was stalking her. I will never believe that she tried to cross the Moira River.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 11, 2010, 08:57:21 PM
I think Deborah was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel as if he wouldn't just pick up a hitchhiker as that didn't seem like something he did. She could have, however, witnessed something she wasn't suppose to. For instance, what if she was walking through his neighborhood, getting to her dad's place, and saw him bring her home.  (Is RW's place on the path to her dad's?)

What if she was walking up the road past Jessica's house and saw him put Jessica in the car?

Or, what if she had been witness to Maria's situation?

Remember, he told the women they didn't want to "see" him. To me means if they did he would have to kill them. So maybe she saw something she wasn't suppose to. Was it ever disclosed the issue she was subpeona'd to court to disclose?  Wasn't she served with papers to come in and she was weary of doing so?

On the other hand, her mother lived in the Belleville home. She was last known to be in that home to get some sleep. Her purse, cell and backpack was found in that home. Perhaps, he also did his panty raid activity in Belleville, and she became a target.

I think he played a game. He broke into houses and if they weren't home, he took their panties as trophies to remind him that he was there. If they were home, well, then he had to rape and photograph. And, if they saw him, perhaps he had to kill them.  IMO, from reading the articles, that seems to be a pattern with him. After all he kept returning to houses...was he just returning until he would finally catch someone home?

I believe Deborah was one of those that was in a house (her mothers) and that was a house that he would break into. (Was her mother ever missing panties?)  I think he disposed of her body in the river on the way home, possibly from that one spot someone pointed out on the map in the Deborah thread...it had an area he could easily pull up into. And, her body would have floated a short distance down river and get caught in the area she was found.  The fact that something was on her head, tells me he probably did the same to her and kept her face covered. It would be interesting to know if her body had traces of being treated like the others. Did RW have photographs of her body on file?

I would like to know if  the investigators found other trophy photographs he took of other women that are not one of the four known victims.  If there are videotapes?  If so, I surely hope he gets dangerous offender, and the appropriate sentence to go with it.

I need to know that the system don't let people like him walk free ever again. Then I need to know that he won't ever mysteriously break out of his cell to freedom on the run someday, as well.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Carol-Lynn on October 20, 2010, 07:02:42 AM
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/19/15755056.html (http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/19/15755056.html)

Houses forever haunted by Col. Williams
BELLEVILLE, Ont. - What happened in these homes was as unconscionable as it was unimaginable.

There has been no horror movie ever filmed that could ever match the sheer terror of what transpired inside these two crime scenes.

It's that ugly.

The courtroom Tuesday was filled with veterans of covering the dark side of life -- as well as those from a grieving and disgusted community -- who could not contain their tears. So you can imagine the trauma of the people where the crimes took place hearing these horrid details for the first time.

It's just beyond all reasonable thinking that there could be somebody so vile. And thanks to that, these dwellings are now, unfairly, deemed houses of horror.

However prior to the intrusion and incomprehensible crimes by a sadistic slayer named Col. Russell Williams, they were the places of dreams, independence and success.

They were also once places of happiness.

One was a 15 minute drive north on Hwy. 37 -- a tiny but neatly kept rural bungalow where Jessica Lloyd had lived since she was eight years old but had purchased from her mother as her own.

The other was 30 minutes west, at 252 Raglan St. in Brighton, a pretty little brick home just one block from picturesque Lake Ontario.

Cpl. Marie-France Comeau had not lived there for long but she had plans to put in a garden.

As laid out in court here Tuesday, these homes are where predator Williams stalked his prey and violated its occupants in such a way that even his experienced defence lawyers have difficulty looking at him.

"As far as I am concerned I think the military should buy this house and tear it down," said Shirley Silliker, standing outside the Lloyd home that she looks after for the family. "It's not my home and not my decision but I don't know if I can look at it from across the street for the rest of my life."

And hearing all of the crass details of what went on in there in Jessica's final hours is not helping matters. Still Shirley keeps an eye on Jessica's house, keeps it clean and always pays homage to the young woman everybody loved.

"She was such a beautiful girl," said Shirley, her eyes welling up with tears. "I was like her second mom. She was best friends with my daughter. She had the most beautiful green eyes."

And Jessica loved her home, said Shirley, who was shaking and clearly distraught upon what she heard in court.

"The only reason it happened is because he knew she was there alone," she said. "He must have seen her mowing the lawn. I just wish I could get at him to get in one punch."

Out in Brighton, in the exact home where Comeau was savagely raped and beaten several months earlier, Tony Lia knows exactly how she feels.

"He's a monster and I think they should just harvest his organs," he said, realizing of course that nobody would want them.

Even though he knows the history, Lia says this home will be kept up to the standard Marie-France would have approved. "We will take care of it for her," he said. "We want to keep it nice for her."

Knowing she wanted a garden, he and his wife installed a water garden and pond with goldfish in the back, not in tribute to her but with Marie-France in mind.

"Her family can come here any time," said the retired General Motors employee who purchased the house for $220,000, he said. A price perhaps $20,000 below its proper market value.

Much of the inside was renovated and he keeps a picture of Comeau from a local newspaper at the ready. He said she may not have lived here for long but she will always be here.

Seems to me Comeau needs some representation. I have not found anybody for her at this trial so far. I have also noticed there has not been anybody in the court visible in a military uniform. I don't understand this and have asked the Department of National Defence for an explanation.

Cpl. Comeau may not have been a "shining, rising star" as the homicidal, still-on-staff and pension-eligible Williams once was, but you'd think somebody she worked with at CFB Trenton could have travelled 10 minutes down the road Tuesday to come and hear what did happen to her at the hands of the man who was running the base and her commanding officer.

She was, after all, one of your own.

At least she won't be forgotten at the Lia household.

It's true Stephen King could not have written what transpired in either location but these were also homes that, if not for a blood thirsty killer, would still be housing people living their dreams.

joe.warmington@sunmedia.ca

I can't Believe NO ONE was there for her at the court house.This is just to sad to read anymore. :'(
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on October 20, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
I have always kept Marie-France in my thoughts along with Jessica when I hear or read anything about Williams.
 I agree with you that where the hell was Military representation for Marie-France?      She was stalked and murdered by a commanding officer, someone from the Military Family needs to stand up for her.   Shame on them. 
God Rest your soul...Marie-France.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: capeheart on October 20, 2010, 06:55:31 PM
I do not know why nobody was there at the courthouse to represent the military. This is very odd, but then they have rules and maybe they were not allowed to appear. If there were some that were not working, I don't know why they wouldn't go but it could be too painful for them. They may not have been able to hear the evidence of what went on.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 20, 2010, 07:20:15 PM
I'm wondering if it is out of respect for the families. It was their day, And, emotions are high. Perhaps for the safety of the military personnel they were instructed to not appear in court. As if RW's crimes would be attributed to them.  Or, perhaps they could view the proceedings from the base for some reason. That is all I can guess. Or, perhaps they showed up, but not in uniform. For a friend. For privacy.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on October 21, 2010, 06:27:28 AM
There is enough freaking cops protecting this deranged killer......I am sure they could also protect a few more Military Personnel that would come to represent Marie-France........I am ashamed there is no one there for her.....

I understand that emotions would be running high but there still needs to be representation for their Corporal murdered by a commanding officer..

I would think if anything was to go wrong...it would be directed at Williams, not the innocents from the MIlitary.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 21, 2010, 09:09:31 PM
Jobo, I was thinking about this today, and a thought came up. RW got off on peoples' terror and fears. I'm wondering if Marie's silent friends and family may have been their collective effort to, in effect, say to RW that he won't be able to feed on their tears, fears, and continued pain. Being silent to a person like RW means they are not giving him a chance to feed another fetish. Sometimes, silence is very powerful. I wonder if that is what happened
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on October 24, 2010, 08:32:34 PM
Does anyone remember the comment made about Deborah when people were looking for her....she may have witnessed a crime and the perp was looking for her?  She was afraid because she was afraid of the powerful person.  If you recall, her family didn't take her seriously because, well, she had a medical condition and they didn't always know if it was her condition talking or for real. But her friends felt strongly that this was for real. Remember, friends had said she was afraid to be be brought in to tell what she knows because she feared the perp(s)?.....and that no one would believe her?   

(In hindsight, doesn't it kind of fit now?)

If we are going to go out there with theories based on what was known at the time of Deborah:  She saw a crime by the perp. They knew her testimony would be questioned because of her medical question. She felt no one would believe her. She was very afraid. She was intimidated. She thought she was being followed. She was having troubles communicating with the phone. She was fearful for her life. Her friend and current roommate said she went to her parent's house in Belleville to get a some sleep and was planning to go up to see her father (up in RW neighborhood whose walking path is the stretch of river and/or road RW travels back and forth to work and Jessica lives on). Her purse, cell, coat (doesn't this sound familiar?) was all found at the parent's Belleville house (which suggests she at least made it there) but she was never seen again.  She goes missing in the very timeframe that Jessica goes missing. She was found in the river (with something over her head...sound familiar?) and Jessica was found in a field.  All in the vicinity of where RW worked and lived and on the path to and from (Coincidental? When he is been shown to perform crimes in/and around work and in/and around home and on the path to/and from home and work?).

What are the chances that Belleville and Tweed have two murders in incredibly close timeframe without a history of having these problems otherwise? And, what are the chances that a perp who has at least proven to have escalating crimes of that nature at that time around work and home?

Could the evidence regarding Deborah have been too easy to put holes in, thus not strong enough to build a solid case?  Could there have been some improprieties from some authorities in the Deborah case, that if exposed would hamper the cooperation on the Maria case?

(In hindsight, doesn't it kind of all seem to fit now?)

If he was convicted of three crimes, wouldn't he be a dangerous offender?

(just some IMO thoughts)

If memory serves me correctly and I am certain this is contained at some point on the thread for Deborah.. it was very difficult in the beginning to ascertain actual facts regarding her disappearance.  It was some time before it was actually disclosed the last time a "family" member last saw her was weeks prior to her friends.  I believe it was a friend who first sounded the alarm, not her immediate family.  Apparently they were unaware she was missing until LE tried to serve with a papers to appear in court as she was a witness to a crime.  What crime we never informed, but seemingly an assault.
It is known, via this venue and media reports, Debbie lived what has been called a transient life..by LE.  IMO, not a great label.  It was later reported by LE , Debbie had mental issues..a further label.  ( (Sound familiar?) Typical in my opinion of LE and their judgement of " who cares"
Debbie's life seems very convoluted and difficult to follow.  Her home base seemed to be her father's home..or was it her step father?  At any rate, she stored her clothes there and this is where her cell, etc was found.
But she was totally fundless before she disappeared a day or two before Jessica Lloyd.  She was seen at the Belleville Foodbank, spoke of going to Tweed as she had family there.  She was known to hitchhike.   Hwy 37, past Jessica's house was the fastest way to Tweed. 

The timing is very important here, Jessica as we all know sent a text message around 10:30 the night RW abducted her.  Jan. 28-29.  Deborah was last seen alive during that same time frame and with the intention of hitching a ride to Tweed..she so needed funds to pay off her cell phone bill.  Her friends say it was still active after she disappeared. It was not cut off..did she know?  Was she confused and didn't clearly understand the message from the provider?  Her purse as well was left behind..but what good is a purse if there are no funds contained? 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: amIam on November 12, 2010, 07:56:02 PM
Trenton is a very crazy town at night. Drugs are so much a part of that town/city. Violence is not uncommon. During the day Trenton is a beautiful place to be but the night is crazy. I am not sure why that is. Maybe it's location of being so close to the Kingston Pen...as well as being the largest air-base in Canada...and also being on highway 401. There are 2 wanna-be gangs there...Bloods and Crypts...I doubt they are actually affiliated with the real gang but the gang mentality is there. Guns are not uncommon as my oldest daughter found out during a recent visit back to Trenton. 

Finding random killers is not easy. Williams would still be a free man if he had chosen to drive his other vehicle that day. The police got lucky..and that is what they need here. The killer could be anyone. He could be anywhere. One day the puzzle pieces will fall together and I believe the killer/'s will be caught.

Your comments here are interesting relating to the Cripps and Bloods..perhaps you are unaware of the  biker gang connection You mentioned a number of variables as to why crime is so high, drugs, weapons... majors crime in general. Among them you mention  the base, CFB Trenton..a curious
comment... actually very, very interesting.

Sorry but I have to correct you regarding Williams and the Pathfinder...the BMW was parked in the driveway of the dream home, in Ottawa and had been there for quite some time .  LE did not get lucky..they knew who they were looking for.   

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on November 13, 2010, 12:07:52 PM
I would like to offer up an olive branch, of sorts, from those in the middle. I have extreme respect for amIam, amIam's compassion, amIam's intelligence.  I've watched amIam work very hard to bring facts to focus. She is passionate on a few issues, as we all are. Through our experiences, through those things we have personally been through, and life's lessons we are who we are. I think we lend these experiences and our talents to the posts. It allows us to look the matter from different angles. We can chose to like, dislike, discredit etc...

One thing I have never known amIam to want to do is turn the posts into a personal bully session. Instead, I've seen amIam defend opinion and theory, from amIam's perspective, contacts and research. AmIam has much research, contacts, books to lend the opinions from. I've seen brilliance come from that. Can we just let amIam have the opinion, without attacking the person behind the opinion?

Let's face it, some have lost faith in military, LE, politicians, prosecutors, defense attorneys, etc... Sometimes in very hard-earned and gut-wrenching ways. Most will give credit where credit is due. Most will point out mistakes for correction to make society better. I believe we should be open to all views so we can see a clearer picture.

Can we agree to disagree. We don't all have to have the same opinion. But we should not bully. I respect this site because bullying usually is not tolerated. And, at times, I don't think we have to constantly defend ourselves, especially if the posts state where the opinion is derived. A simple, "I disagree with that..." backed by facts on why is way more helpful to the reader. The readers will decide on their own.

We've lost some really good contributors because people attack them personally. When they go, others leave with them. I think we should be more focused on making people more comfortable to stay and contribute, even if from different viewpoints.

What I personally would really find helpful on this thread is if we could compile a list of the known facts.  And, a few of the stated theories that can be further looked into.

Perdy, you have mentioned that your children knew Kathleen. Is there any way that you could fill us in on they type of person, interests, etc. Was she too trusting? Why did she want to be with her aunt and uncle? Did she have a tendency to hand around the right people? Did she meet someone that she was having trouble with? Was she running away from something that kept her from living with her parents? Could trouble have followed her?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: debbiec on November 13, 2010, 12:34:25 PM
Quote
Can we agree to disagree. We don't all have to have the same opinion. But we should not bully. I respect this site because bullying usually is not tolerated. And, at times, I don't think we have to constantly defend ourselves, especially if the posts state where the opinion is derived. A simple, "I disagree with that..." backed by facts on why is way more helpful to the reader. The readers will decide on their own.


That was very well stated Concerned. Personally I have found it is getting a bit tiring to try and read on a few of these threads because of the constant picking and snide remarks.

It wasn't very long ago that Chris had posted and asked members not to be 'dismissive' of others posts. We are all entitled to our own thoughts and opinions.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: D1 on November 13, 2010, 01:11:00 PM
The Military and Remembrance Day. Understandable
Good suggestions posted above that would difuse this potential land mine.

re:
Quote
And please post this in a different area..i suggest in the Russel Williams area of these forums. Once again, he no longer belongs in this thread. My mention of his vehicle was only to reference how hard it is to find a serial killer and how luck almost always plays a part. It was not to argue about what detail i supposedly forgot or to discuss where Williams BMW was or wasn't.

There is another thread that is semi suitable for this aspect of the discussion at least until all agree its warranted back here.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3221.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3221.0.html)

Everyone can still post in the manner they desire. There is a place for everything on here, even bad attitude and highly controversial positions. I can well imagine the reception I would have gotten a year back if I had brought up the possibility that the Base Commander was running around at night raping and killing women while pracing around in their undies for the camera!

You got it Concerned, Deb and many others of us on here support your thoughts, it's just how to pull it off.

Quote
I would like to offer up an olive branch, of sorts, from those in the middle. I have extreme respect for amIam, amIam's compassion, amIam's intelligence.  I've watched amIam work very hard to bring facts to focus. She is passionate on a few issues, as we all are. Through our experiences, through those things we have personally been through, and life's lessons we are who we are. I think we lend these experiences and our talents to the posts. It allows us to look the matter from different angles. We can chose to like, dislike, discredit etc...
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on November 16, 2010, 02:12:54 PM
Gosh, I have never seen any bullying or bad words said against any members.  I wonder, at times, what threads have I missed with such comments. I have always enjoyed Am's comments, they are well researched, and clearly stated. There are many other members, who contribute as well.  Solvy, Concerned, and many others. It is a pleasure to read their thoughts on every thread. It opens the mind.

Peace in amongst us.
JB
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Woodland on November 16, 2010, 05:11:53 PM
Has anyone heard if Williams' DNA has been run through our national DNA databank or not?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on November 16, 2010, 08:45:06 PM

Do you think they would really tell us how many more there are.???




Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on November 19, 2010, 08:34:33 PM
Story update on RW's house and what the future holds. Someone suggested a park. Now, really, who would go to that? Any decisions made on the house probably won't happen until after the lawsuit with the victim is settled. Next hearing is scheduled for January 2011

A service of prayer for healing will be held at 2 p.m. Sunday, November 28 at St. Edmund Parish Hall in Stucco. Local ministers from each area church are on the organizing committee. It will be a public service and not limited to victims. Focus is on Tweed. They say media are not welcome.

Full Story:
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2854260 (http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2854260)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on November 24, 2010, 06:23:28 PM
Thank you Marie-France for showing us bravery, strength, resilience. Reminding us, we can fight back. We will. You are not forgotten.

Quote
Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Williams' victim remembered on anniversary of slaying
By EMILY MOUNTNEY, QMI AGENCY
Last Updated: November 24, 2010 1:57pm

CFB TRENTON, Ont. — One of Russell Williams' murder victims was remembered Wednesday on anniversary of her death.

One year after the murder of 437 Squadron’s Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, the military and public gathered at the National Air Force Museum in memory of the "brave and fun loving" 37-year-old.

“One year ago, we received the tragic news,” said 8 Wing/CFB Trenton Commander Col. Dave Cochrane. “While none of us could predict the events to follow, we grieved collectively.”

The Brighton, Ont., resident was one of two women to be raped and killed by former CFB Trenton base commander Russell Williams. Williams pleaded guilty in Belleville, Ont., court Oct. 18 to the murders of Comeau and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, as well as to the sex attacks on two Tweed women; and break-ins and thefts in the Ottawa, Tweed, Ont., and Belleville areas dating back to 2007.

He was sentenced to concurrent life terms in prison on Oct. 21.

Commanding Officer of 437 Squadron, Lt.-Col. Andy Cook, said details of Comeau's death have overshadowed the person she was.

“Marie-France Comeau was most likely unaware of the lasting legacy she has left,” said Cook.

He described Comeau as an ordinary woman who faced extraordinary circumstances.

“She fought evil. She never gave up her fight,” said Cook. “I don’t know if I could face the same thing she did with her amount of courage.”

The ceremony began with the dedication of a bench, tree and an Ad Astra stone in Comeau's memory.

The bench will serve as a place of reflection for visitors to the museum, and as the tree grows and blooms, it will represent the life and legacy of Comeau, 437 Squadron officials said.

Cochrane described Comeau as a woman who had a love for flying and travelling.

“Cpl. Comeau achieved great things, she served as an example to her peers and those who worked along side her.” said Cochrane. “She kept her friends and co-workers on their toes.”

She had an "infectious smile" and those to know her were privileged, he said.

Ontario Lt.-Gen. David Onley reminded the soldiers present that residents of the province support the forces.

The “collective good of the tens of thousands of people who wear the uniform can never be tarnished,” he said.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/11/24/16296746.html (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/11/24/16296746.html)
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on December 12, 2010, 05:55:42 PM
Something has always bothered me about RW's choice to bring Ms. Lloyd back to his house. Was this the first time he brought someone to his house? Why would a perp place his victims in his residence? Why did he have such a need to have her sleep next to him in his bed? Isn't it unusual for a perp to have a victim brought back to his own house?  He was not worried one bit that his wife might come home for the weekend to see him? What does it implicate that he wanted Ms. Lloyd at his house feeding, bathing and sleeping with him?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on December 12, 2010, 06:52:12 PM
According to Dr. Kiehl, a psychopath has brain deficits that neuroscientiests have documented that affect the ability to feel emotions and learn from their mistakes. It has to do with the amygdala and the corpus callosum. It is sounding to me that there is a way through MRI, CT Scan to tell if a person has the propensity to be a psychopath. Begs to ask....aren't these tests worthy of being used when an individual is in charge of such a high rank and such important responsibilities important to the national security?

Quote
The brains of psychopaths seem to be stunted in the machinery involved in humanity's ability to feel empathy and kindness, even love. In adult psychopaths, the almond-shaped structure called the amygdala that generates emotions like fear and is also involved in learning, is significantly smaller. They appear to have weaker connections in the inner recesses of the brain that make up the paralimbic system, which involves emotions and self-control. (Psychopathic traits have also been seen in patients with damage to this area.)

There also appear to be differences in the corpus callosum, which joins the right and left hemispheres of the brain – which has been linked to their impressive ability to lie and cheat and manipulate people, an evolutionary advantage in a world that rewards those who get the upper hand, says Yu Gao, a researcher in New York who studies the neurobiology of psychopathy.

Quote
This suggests that failure to bond may play a role, she says. She also found that adults who reported they were neglected by their mothers when they were children were also more likely to have difficulty with empathy, and other psychopathic traits.

But every child showing signs of callousness and fearlessness isn't a psychopath in the making – although it certainly increases the odds. It is rare for people to become callous and unfeeling as adults if they began life as caring, empathetic children, says Paul Frick, a psychologist at the University of New Orleans, who studies anti-social behaviour and develops therapies for anti-social children. These troubled kids learn to conform quickly, often even fooling researchers by posing as model citizens until the end of the day, when, denied a reward, they become nasty intimidators even with adults.

But one study that followed 12-year-olds with these traits into adulthood found that only about 20 per cent met the measurement for psychopathy. Genes may lay the foundation, but environment builds upon it. A fearless child with callous traits who lives in a stable, supportive home with a parents that can afford to send him skiing as an outlet for his risk-taking has better outcomes than one raised in a poor family where the parents have few resources.

Quote
“They are every bit as rational as any human being, if not more so, because they don't have the noise of human emotion,” says Dr. Porter. In his research, he has studied psychopaths in Canadian prisons, analyzing their crimes. He found that while psychopaths committed thefts and assaults without much premeditation, they were far less likely to kill in passion. Their murders were almost always carefully planned and executed. He describes them as “selective impulsive,” that is, they carefully weigh the costs and benefits of their deeds – the likelihood of being caught, the steeper punishment of life in prison for murder if they are careless. He points as well to research that has shown they are more than twice as likely to be granted parole. “They can put on Academy Award-winning performances for the parole board,” he says. And for juries.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams/how-a-psychopath-is-made/article1769674/page2/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams/how-a-psychopath-is-made/article1769674/page2/)

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Mom on December 12, 2010, 06:53:02 PM

If you're on Facebook, please "Like" a Social Networking Petition I have started to get action in having the Canadian Government to revoke Russell Williams' Pension.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pension-for-Williams-Be-Dammed/167214843313631?v=app_2373072738 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pension-for-Williams-Be-Dammed/167214843313631?v=app_2373072738)

Please browse around... there's lots of photos, videos, notes and a timeline.  Encourage your friends and family to click "Like" too!  Individually we are but a droplet, together we are an ocean.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Trouble445 on August 20, 2011, 08:52:48 AM
This article left me speechless! I can't believe a victim was treated this way!

http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/news/article/1433553


Russell Williams' victim felt 'betrayed' by police
Published Saturday August 20th, 2011
Women claims officers left her bound, naked for five hours

A woman who was bound and sexually assaulted by her then-neighbour, Col. Russell Williams, says the police left her tied up for five hours after responding to her 911 call.

Laurie Massicotte says Ontario Provincial Police officers told her they had to leave her in the harness, fashioned by Williams, until an OPP photographer arrived to take pictures of her in the restraint.

"I was left for five hours, still in my harness, still tied up, naked, lying under a comforter," Massicotte, 47, told the Ottawa Citizen in a telephone interview yesterday.

"Five hours, no medical attention. I was in total shock. I didn't know what the heck was going on."

The OPP, she said, treated her like a criminal in the early hours of the investigation.

The allegations will form part of a lawsuit that Massicotte intends to file against Williams, his wife and the OPP.

Her lawyer, David Ross, already has given notice of the lawsuit to the Superior Court of Justice. A formal statement of claim will be filed within the next month, he said.

Williams is now serving a life sentence for the sex slayings of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37.

Last October, he also pleaded guilty to two sexual assaults and 82 break-ins in which he frequently photographed himself wearing women's underwear.

Ross said it appears the OPP initially did not believe Massicotte's story, even though she was naked and bound.

"I think the police theory was that she was looking for some kind of compensation," he said.

According to the notice of claim filed in the case, Massicotte will argue that the OPP also breached its "duty of care" by failing to warn her that a sexual assault had taken place in her neighbourhood less than two weeks before she was attacked. Similarly, she will argue the police failed to inform her of nearby break-and-enters in which items of female clothing were taken. The incidents dated to September 2007.

Massicotte lived alone in a house three doors away from the cottage owned by Williams and his wife on the shores of Stoco Lake, north of Belleville, in eastern Ontario.

Last October, Williams pleaded guilty to break-and-enter, sexual assault and confinement in connection with his attack on Massicotte.

The ordeal lasted 3 1/2 hours. Williams left her in a makeshift straitjacket - her arms were cinched to her sides - but she still managed to dial 911.

The police told her she would have to stay in the restraint until the ident unit arrived. When photos were finally taken five hours later, Massicotte said she was then allowed to put on a bathrobe, and taken outside for three more hours while police combed her house for evidence.

She went through a lengthy interrogation before an OPP officer "finally confessed to me that this similar situation happened 12 days ago and we didn't warn anybody about it."

After the incident, Massicotte said she felt violated and terrorized by Williams - and "betrayed" by the police. She said she now suffers from post-traumatic stress and anxiety.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on October 09, 2011, 07:48:05 AM
I read that, and cannot understand the cops being so uncaring to the Victim.   No excuse to leave the Victim for 5 hours in that condition. 

I am glad she is speaking up.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on June 14, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/russell-williams-denies-sex-assault-victim-entitled-to-compensation-159083975.html


Russell Williams denies sex assault victim entitled to compensation By: The Canadian Press

 Posted: 1:52 PM | Comments: 8 (including replies) | Last Modified: 4:11 PM
 
BELLEVILLE, Ont. - Convicted murderer Russell Williams is denying that a woman he tied up and sexually assaulted is entitled to compensation from him for pain and suffering.

In a statement of defence to a lawsuit launched by Laurie Massicotte in Belleville, Ont., Williams says she will have to prove her claims in court.

And he wants her to pay for his legal bills to fight her lawsuit.Massicotte, who has chosen to reveal her identity and speak publicly about her ordeal, filed a nearly $7-million lawsuit in September against Williams.

The attack left her fearful, humiliated, depressed, suicidal, unable to function in society and she will require extensive therapy, Massicotte said in her statement of claim.

Williams broke into her house on Sept. 29, 2009, hit her over the head, tied her up, sexually assaulted her and took pornographic pictures, according to Massicotte.

The former air force colonel pleaded guilty to the attack on Massicotte, admitting to those facts in court in October 2010. For the purposes of the lawsuit Williams' statement of defence challenges Massicotte to a burden of "strict proof" of her claims about the attack and resulting anguish.

Williams was convicted of first-degree murder in the sex slayings of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton, Ont., and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville.

The former commander of Canada's largest military airfield, in Trenton, Ont., also pleaded guilty to 82 fetish break-and-enters and thefts as well as two sexual assaults, including Massicotte's.

Massicotte's lawsuit also names the province, alleging the provincial police failed to warn her about previous sexual assaults and a string of fetish break-ins in the community, later found to be committed by Williams.

The province recently filed its statement of defence, denying it had a duty to warn Massicotte in the circumstances of the case.

"Ontario recognizes the extremely distressing experience that Ms. Massicotte endured as one of Williams' victims," the province says in the statement of defence.

"Ontario is committed to the prevention of crime and to the apprehension and prosecution of the perpetrators of crime."

Like Williams, the province is asking that the lawsuit against it be dismissed with costs, which would leave Massicotte on the hook for the defendants' legal bills.

Massicotte is also alleging that Williams secretly and fraudulently transferred assets to his wife in March 2010 after he was criminally charged, including their house in Ottawa.

Mary Elizabeth Harriman has vigorously denied the claim in a previously filed statement of defence. She has also denied the same claim made by another victim of Williams who has also filed a lawsuit against the couple over the asset transfers.

Williams and Harriman are in the midst of a divorce.

In his statement of defence Williams also denies the conveyance was fraudulent, saying it was made in good faith to provide Harriman with financial security.

The allegations in Massicotte's lawsuit have not been proven in court.

(the bolding of a statement is mine) jb
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on June 15, 2012, 08:01:51 AM
Why don't Lawyers tell Perps that they are wasting money and paper with their outrageous counter claims such as this latest from the Williams's camp?   
Guess this idiot will go along with Williams and take all his money while he takes up valuable court time argueing that Williams didn't realize he was causing his Victim pain and suffering....Please don't insult our intelligence.

I hope each and every Victim gets as much as they can from Williams's pocket.

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: justsayin on June 15, 2012, 11:55:08 AM
Hear! Hear!  I recently watched the espisode "Name, Rank, Serial Killer" on the 48 hours mystery tv show that aired the actual footage of his interview and confession.  When asked where the body was, he casually said "'Got a map?".  I hope that Diane and the other victims families can bleed him dry.   
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: capeheart on June 16, 2012, 02:23:51 PM
i just heard on the news yesterday that Williams is now denying his crimes. What a creep, this bastard just doesn't know when to shut up. :( :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on June 16, 2012, 07:59:09 PM
How does that work? If the person in jail convicted of the series of crimes, particularly two murders and the rapes, is in jail but claims they are not guilty and the evidence was destroyed....how does that work when the victims have to file citizen suits to gain compensation for their losses....do they have to prove the perp is guilty and responsible?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Have faith on June 16, 2012, 08:03:34 PM
I can't find any media reports about RW denying his crimes, but Laurie Massicotte is saying that he killed four women (not two) and that there is a huge cover-up. (per the Toronto Sun, June 14th, see below).


"So what do the province of Ontario and sadistic sex slayer Russell Williams have in common?

Neither want to compensate sexual assault victim Laurie Massicotte.

And both also want her to pay their legal bills for her having the audacity of trying to sue them in the first place.

You just don’t see that every day.

It’s happening -- and to a woman who was hit with a flashlight across the head, tied up, confined and sexually assaulted in her Tweed home by the very man who went on to murder Jessica Lloyd and Marie-France Comeau.

Former Cosy Cove neighbour Massicotte has filed at $7-milllion lawsuit against Williams, his wife Mary Elizabeth Harriman and the province for the not yet proven in court, physical emotional and mental distress it has caused her and her three daughters.

Williams, who did admit to the break in and attack on Massicotte, has no sympathy.

Nor does the province.

As QMI’s Luke Hendry reports Williams “denies that the plaintiffs are entitled to the relief.”

It’s like Massicotte is being struck again across the skull with another hammer.

And when down, it was the province’s turn to get its kick in too.

“Ontario recognizes the extremely distressing experience that Ms. Massicotte endured as one of Williams’ victims,” its statement reads, but that “the investigation of the assault upon Ms Massicotte was thorough and reasonable. The OPP acted at all times honestly, in good faith and in accordance with their public duties as police officers.”

Hendry, a reporter at the Belleville Intelligencer who has covered this story from the beginning, writes the “province claims the case against it should” also “be dismissed with costs paid by Massicotte.”

Hasn’t this woman paid her share already?

There are so many factors to consider in this case -- from residents not being told of a similar attack 12 days earlier on the same lane, to previous lingerie raids to Massicotte’s allegations she was not administered a “rape kit” and no DNA swabbing was on her or at her residence. She also alleges officers told neighbours she was “crazy” and “copycating” the previous attack.

In an April 2011 Massicotte said “there’s not an hour goes by that you don’t think about it” and “I was sure I was going to die.”

She also has the horror of being within 75 metres of Williams cottage -- a constant reminder of how close she came to being a murder victim.

“I don’t trust anyone now,” Massicotte said.

Her being victimized over and over again makes for a great headline or web hit. But is it the biggest part of the story?

Massicotte has dropped a potential bombshell in a letter to Peterborough lawyer David O’Neill.

“I am anticipating a meeting with a member of law enforcement this week to compare notes which suggest Russell Williams may be responsible for a fourth (4th) murder,” she wrote.

A fourth murder? Was there even a third murder?

As far as the public knows Williams has been convicted of two murders and two sexual assaults.

Massicotte declined to confirm if she has met with police already or is going to.

“The cover up continues,” she wrote in a Thursday e-mail. “The amount of damage this will do to the reputation of the OPP, the Office of the Crown Attorney, and the System of Justice notwithstanding; I am aware that the victims families have been kept in the dark in this matter, and I believe that those responsible for the actions of those servants of the Crown who caused this to happen should have the responsibility of informing these people, rather than the media.”

The OPP did not comment Thursday. But several police sources have told me they do not know if any active investigations concerning Williams and potential unsolved homicides.

However in light of all of the bizarre behaviour of Williams, and since there are many unsolved cases in Ontario, it might not be a bad idea for law enforcement sit down with Massicotte and collect and scrutinize with an open mind all information she claims to have. But please don’t charge her for the gas money to go out and see her in Tweed.

She’s been victimized enough."
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: art-hu on June 18, 2012, 07:48:03 PM
Laurie Massicotte is saying that RW has murdered 4 women,......Really, only 4.?? and that there is a huge cover-up. I'm not surprised at all.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on July 13, 2012, 06:50:58 AM
http://www.thepost.ca/2012/07/12/office-space-sta

News Canada
 
'Office Space' star in Russell Williams movie
By Michele Mandel, Toronto Sun

Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:56:54 EDT PM

Gary Cole (R) stars as Russell Williams in "An Officer and a Murderer." (File Photos)
 
Too soon.
 
I don’t want to see a movie about Russell Williams yet. In fact, I don’t ever want to watch a cinematic version of the horror I heard retold in that Belleville courthouse in October 2010.
 
There were moments in that crowded courtroom when I was certain that I was going to be physically ill and it took all my willpower to remain in my seat and continue to do my job. I wept as I wrote my story that evening, reliving what I had heard. Those images of rape and torture are forever seared in my memory and almost two years later, they still hide, only to reappear unbidden in all their graphic monstrosity: Images of that sadistic monster who bound and blindfolded two strong, beautiful women, made them do his perverse bidding as he captured them on camera, and then, even as they begged for their lives, executed them when his cruel pleasure was done.
 
That should not be the stuff of a made-for-TV movie, no matter how sanitized it may be.
 
But the Lifetime Network has just cheerily announced that their film about the disgraced former Canadian Forces colonel, An Officer and a Murderer, will air in the U.S. on July 21. “Brilliant at being stealth and obsessive in covering all traces, Col. Williams deceives his wife, friends, neighbours and even his military comrades. But his lewd behaviour catches the eye of a small-town police detective who is determined to stop the colonel dead in his tracks,” reads the description on the Lifetime website.
 
The brutal sex slayings of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, have been transformed into entertainment for the American masses, a juicy, titillating drama of a serial killer who is a respected air force commander by day and at night, a fetishist peeping Tom who graduates to rape and then murder.
 
There’s no arguing that it would be a compelling, cautionary tale if it weren’t so close to home, so close in time. The victims’ families have barely begun to heal, if they ever will at all. Exploiting their tragedy to thrill an American cable TV audience is so wrong.
 
At least with the movie Karla, which depicted the crimes of Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo, the Hollywood treatment came more than a decade after the sex slayings of the two schoolgirls. And still it elicited outrage and even a call to boycott it by Ontario’s premier.
 
The only saving grace is that the Williams movie won’t be seen in Canada.
 
It’s not to difficult to understand the cinematic allure of the enigmatic former commander of CFB Trenton. At 47, the well-educated, long-married military man was a rising star with his chiselled chin and reserved, arrogant manner. What is so mystifying to this day is how he so masterfully hid his alter ego. He appeared so normal and yet for two years, he was breaking into the bedrooms of young girls in Ottawa and Tweed to dress and photograph himself in their panties. By September 2009, his underwear fetish took a sudden, violent turn and he snuck into the homes of two women who lived alone, blindfolded and bound them, sexually assaulted them and forced them to pose naked.
 
But at least they were allowed to live.
 
Comeau, a military flight attendant he’d met on the job, and Lloyd, a complete stranger he’d spotted working out on her home treadmill, would not be as lucky. And there is little doubt that there would have been more victims if the cocky killer hadn’t been caught by his own hubris - even showing up to his police interview wearing the same boots he wore the night he abducted Lloyd from her home.
 
The irony is that there is now a movie about his evil deeds, when Williams himself was so keen on making one himself.
 
He orchestrated every part of his victims’ harrowing last hours, capturing every degradation, every painful assault, from all possible video angles, snapping his commands as he directed the snuff films he thought he could later watch and savour.
 
Those poor women were mere fodder for his sick entertainment. How is an exploitative TV movie that much different?
r-in-russell-williams-movie
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on March 14, 2014, 03:03:10 AM
I am posting this article since it seems Dr John Bradford is another of Williams's victims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/dr-john-bradford-won%e2%80%99t-work-magnotta-case-because-of-ptsd

.cbc.ca (© Copyright: (C) Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, http://www.cbc.ca/aboutcbc/discover/termsofuse.html#Rss)

Updated: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:01:04 GMT | By CBC News, cbc.ca

Dr. John Bradford won’t work Magnotta case because of PTSD

Forensic psychiatrist Dr. John Bradford initially agreed to work on the high-profile Magnotta case but has since changed his mind due to PTSD. CBC

One of this country’s top forensic psychiatrists says he will not work on the upcoming trial of alleged killer Luka Rocco Magnotta because he suffers from post traumatic stress disorder, a condition triggered by a career spent absorbing graphic video evidence.

Dr. John Bradford said he never used to believe PTSD was real, but having experienced it, he now recognizes that it is a true medical condition.

“I’m not a skeptic anymore,” he said. “I can tell you it’s real.”

In his career, Bradford analyzed some of Canada’s most notorious murderers, including Paul Bernardo, Karla Homolka and Robert Pickton.

But he says it was the case of convicted killer ex-colonel Russell Williams that triggered his breakdown.

“It’s like a switch went off in my head and I just broke down,” Bradford said. “I get tears occasionally, but this was sobbing, out of control.”

‘It was just eating me up’

Bradford had spent days interviewing Williams, the former Canadian Air Force colonel who pleaded guilty in 2010 to 88 charges, including two murders, two sexual assaults and dozens of break-ins or attempted break-ins into women's homes.

“He wasn't a psychopathic individual who suddenly at 45, 48 years of age started to kill women,” Bradford said of Williams. “Something happened in his life, which has never been in the public domain, I’m not at liberty to talk about it, and that made a change.”

Bradford said it was the videos of Williams raping and murdering his victims that gnawed at him.

“You are looking at these videos as they are unfolding. You are hearing what the person is saying, you are seeing the interaction and you know what the end result is,” he said. “It was just eating me up.”

Considering himself a “tough guy,” Bradford said he tried to work through his distress. It didn’t work. He started drinking, became irritable and even considered suicide.

With medication and therapy, Bradford says he is now feeling better. But after initially agreeing to work on the Magnotta case, he has since changed his mind.

Magnotta will stand trial in September for the 2012 death of Concordia University student Jun Lin. The case involves murder and dismemberment, all of it apparently videotaped.

“I’m getting old now,” Bradford said to explain his decision not to consult on the Magnotta case.

“I don’t need to do this stuff anymore. I think for now I will probably avoid it.”
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: debbiec on March 14, 2014, 10:11:51 AM
Quote
Bradford had spent days interviewing Williams, the former Canadian Air Force colonel who pleaded guilty in 2010 to 88 charges, including two murders, two sexual assaults and dozens of break-ins or attempted break-ins into women's homes.

“He wasn't a psychopathic individual who suddenly at 45, 48 years of age started to kill women,” Bradford said of Williams. “Something happened in his life, which has never been in the public domain, I’m not at liberty to talk about it, and that made a change.” 

It is alarming to think that "something happening" in a person's life, could change them to the point that they are capable of the types of acts that Williams was.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: leonagleant on March 14, 2014, 02:29:26 PM
It is a very mysterious comment to make. One possibility is that something led Williams to take mind-altering medications which triggered the psychosis.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: looking on March 15, 2014, 09:21:36 PM
He suddenly started hating women, but at the same time wanted to wear their panties and bras.  Could meds do that?  Maybe a traumatic incident that he witnessed or endured triggered him.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on March 16, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Williams's  parents divorced and his mom remarried another man that worked in the nuclear power industry.  Sounds like they travelled a fair bit, I think for his work, and Williams was left at boarding school.  I remember reading that he was alone at school one Christmas (although I don't recall reading where his brother was, one would think they would at least get together for the holidays).  He was estranged from his family for many, many years...why?
Also, he worshipped the ground his girlfriend from college walked on and when she broke up with him he took it hard.  I don't think he had another girlfriend until he met and married his (ex) wife.
They did not have children, I wonder if it was by choice or one/both of them had fertility issues.

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on March 16, 2014, 11:57:10 AM
re: no children.  http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/2013/12/11/colonel-russell-williams-where-have-you-been-ive-been-to-london-to-fly-the-queen-and-back-to-collect-artifacts/

Jobo, I found an article -
quote
He was a highly respected man. From all accounts, he had a great relationship with his loving and very smart wife who was not emasculating him in any way. They had decided against having children because ‘he did not want to bring children into this world’. That should be a clue. What was it about this world that he found unfit for children? He knew firsthand about the EVIL LURKING. unquote

and apparently child porn was found on his computer.  This is a claim only.

http://www.citynews.ca/2011/03/29/child-porn-found-on-col-russell-williams-computer-new-book-claims/

JB



Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on March 16, 2014, 05:02:19 PM
That's right jellybean, I had forgotten about that comment about having kids.  Is that an odd comment for a man?  I don't know.
Thanks.
 
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on August 26, 2014, 08:37:57 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/25/sexkiller_russell_williams_settles_lawsuits_with_two_victims.html

Sex-killer Russell Williams settles lawsuits with two victims, report says

By: Laurie Monsebraaten Social justice reporter,  Published on Mon Aug 25 2014

Serial sex-killer Russell Williams has settled two of several multimillion-dollar lawsuits launched by victims of the disgraced former army colonel, according to a report.

Maclean’s magazine reports that the confidential out-of-court financial deal involving both Williams and his ex-wife were reached with Williams’ first sexual-assault victim — identified only as a Jane Doe — and the mother and brother of Jessica Lloyd.

Lloyd was kidnapped from her Belleville, Ont, home and murdered in Williams’ cottage in nearby Tweed.

Jane Doe had been seeking $2.45 million while the Roxanne and Andy Lloyd were seeking $4 million. The lawsuits went after Williams for the “brutal” and “vicious” nature of his actions, and targeted his wife Mary Elizabeth Harriman for allegedly trying to shield the couple’s assets from civil action.

An agreement signed shortly after Williams was charged shifted the couple’s assets to his wife’s name.

The magazine quotes a prepared statement from the victims’ lawyer Michael Pretsell stating that the agreement states that the financial terms will remain confidential.

Williams was sentenced to life in prison four years ago for the vicious murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd, two sexual assaults and dozens of fetish break-ins. The former commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton was stripped of his military rank.

Williams and his ex-wife are still facing other civil suits. Laurie Massicotte, a former neighbour who was bound, stripped and sexually assaulted by Williams, has filed a lawsuit totalling more than $7 million against the convicted killer, his ex-wife and the Ontario Provincial Police.

With files from Wendy Gillis
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on August 26, 2014, 01:56:40 PM
Thanks for posting this latest info, jellybean.  I tried this morning to do so, but couldn't figure out how on my iPad.  Lol.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on September 12, 2014, 05:57:42 PM
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/detectives-in-russell-williams-case-honoured-by-governor-general-1.1999204


Detectives in Russell Williams case honoured by Governor General



CTV Ottawa
 Published Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:18PM EDT 
 Last Updated Tuesday, September 9, 2014 7:08PM EDT 


The Governor General of Canada, His Excellency the Right Honourable David Johnston, is recognizing police officers and civilians from around the country.

“This order recognizes exceptional police and community development work over the course of a career” said Johnston.

The Order of Merit of the Police Forceshonoured 77 police and civilian members.

Among those recognized, Ontario Provincial Police Superintendent Chris Nicholas and Detective Inspector Jim Smyth, two of the officers responsible for the arrest and conviction of former Canadian Forces Colonel Russell Williams.

“It’s very humbling” says Smyth, “if I had my way there would be hundreds of people in here sharing this award with me today.”

“Extremely proud and pretty emotional” added Nicholas, “really happy that my wife could be here and that my Mom could be here to share it with me.”

Nicholas and Smyth have spent the last few years travelling the world, speaking with police services in Australia, Europe and most recently the FBI in New York, about the Williams case.  Nicholas hopes other officers can learn from their successes and from what they could have done better, “just so that if we ever get a person like this (Williams) out in our community again we can catch him a little quicker.”

Several members of the Ottawa Police Service were also honoured at the ceremony on Tuesday, September 9, 2014 including; Chief Charles Bordeleau, Staff Sergeant Lynne Turnbull, Director General Debra Frazer and Director Randy Mar.



Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: RubyRose on October 16, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
I came across this today and thought it might be of interest to those who still have an interest in this case.

     http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/russell-williams-clings-to-his-pension/ar-BB9p57y


I was not aware he had been moved to Quebec.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: SAP on October 16, 2014, 02:29:25 PM
Thanks RubyRose.

Quote
What is certain is that Williams wants Massicotte to pay his legal bill for next month’s hearing. As his factum concludes, he wants her appeal dismissed “with costs.”

The NERVE this rapist-killer ex military man has!!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: discus on October 16, 2014, 08:11:00 PM
www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-colonel-told-interrogators-he-was-distressed-by-death-of-his-cat/article1215302/

His cat died a year after he started stealing lingerie. 

It seems he has no conscience.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on October 17, 2014, 05:42:46 AM
Kingston Pen. Was closed last year, RubyRose, so all those prisoners have been moved elsewhere.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Nish on October 17, 2014, 07:19:17 AM
I'm no expert on pensions. I do know, as the article states, that adjustments or claims can be made for things such as child or spousal support. It seems ludicrous to me that further claims cannot be made in circumstances such that the Deviant Williams perpetrated on his own free will.

Is it not feasible that his pension was earned, at least in part, due to some sort of fraud? In that he was stripped of his commission, and awards, due to his behaviour, could one not connect the dots further and strip him of his pension?

The law, as it stands, does make sense...to a point. Hopefully someone will see that these circumstances are exceptional and make it right while still protecting those that the law was meant to, not some deviant arsehole playing the system.

Nish
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2014, 09:01:34 AM
 IMO, If he was stripped of his pension, then NO ONE could sue him? As the old saying goes "You can't get blood out of stone."  It is a slippery slope to make exceptions, as in Williams case, to strip a person of their pensions.  Hasn't Williams caused enough harm?

JB
Here is a list of lawsuits against him - with one being dismissed.  This article is October 2013.
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/10/16/lawsuit-against-russell-williams-dismissed-2

Lawsuit against Russell Williams dismissed  7


Luke Hendry, QMI Agency
 
First posted:  Wednesday, October 16, 2013 07:54 PM CDT  | Updated:  Wednesday, October 16, 2013 07:58 PM CDT

BELLEVILLE, Ont. – An Ontario's couple's lawsuit against sex killer Russell Williams and his estranged wife has been dropped, but three more remain before the court.

Larry and Bonnie Jones, of Tweed, Ont., had been suing Williams and Mary Elizabeth Harriman, among others, for $1.75-million.

"I can confirm that there's a dismissal about that action," said Belleville, Ont., lawyer Mike Pretsell, who is overseeing the four suits against the former air force colonel.

Williams pleaded guilty Oct. 18, 2010 to the first-degree murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton, Ont., in November 2009 and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, in January 2010. He also pleaded guilty to a series of break-ins and fetish thefts and to sex attacks on neighbour Laurie Massicotte and a woman who under a publication ban can be named only as Jane Doe.

Williams is serving two concurrent life sentences in prison and isn't eligible for parole until 2035.

Doe, Massicotte and Lloyd's family all launched lawsuits against Williams and Harriman.

Police investigated Larry Jones for crimes they later linked to Williams and his wife. The Joneses had sued Williams, Harriman, Massicotte, the Ontario Provincial Police and more.

"Everything's been cancelled," Bonnie Jones said in a brief telephone interview. She referred further questions to Peterborough, Ont., lawyer David O'Neill, who did not return calls by press time.

Pretsell would only confirm the Joneses are no longer suing Williams and Harriman.

All other lawsuits remain unresolved, said Pretsell. He represents Doe and the Lloyds.

Doe seeks $2.45 million from Williams and Harriman; the Lloyds seek $4 million.

Pretsell said he couldn't predict when the suits could be resolved.

Massicotte is suing Williams, Harriman and the province for a total of $7 million.

luke.hendry@sunmedia.ca

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: RubyRose on October 17, 2014, 12:23:52 PM
Kingston Pen. Was closed last year, RubyRose, so all those prisoners have been moved elsewhere.

Thank you, jobo.  I wonder if Bernardo is still his neighbour.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Nish on October 17, 2014, 01:02:59 PM
Slippery slope indeed. I don't know of an comparison off hand, so I'll say no more. My utter disgust is well documented.

Nish
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on October 17, 2014, 03:50:16 PM
Question made by Ruby Rose "Thank you, jobo.  I wonder if Bernardo is still his neighbour."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/21/michael-rafferty-joining-killers-russell-williams-and-paul-bernardo-in-quebec-prison

Michael Rafferty joining killers Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo in Quebec prison


By Randy Richmond, The London Free Press 
First posted:  Friday, June 21, 2013 05:33 PM EDT  | Updated:  Friday, June 21, 2013 05:36 PM EDT

LONDON, Ont. -- The trio of killers is together again.

Michael Rafferty is joining fellow murderers ex-colonel Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo in a Quebec prison.

The man who kidnapped, raped and killed eight-year-old Victoria “Tori” Stafford was recently moved from maximum-security Kingston Penitentiary to the maximum-security Port-Cartier Institution about 800 km northeast of Montreal, relatives of the girl said.

“I don’t care where he is, as long he’s behind bars and not receiving any privileges,” Tori’s mother, Tara McDonald, said Friday.

Williams and Bernardo were moved from Kingston to Port-Cartier in the winter, sources told QMI Agency in February.

A spokesperson for Correctional Services Canada said the department cannot confirm transfers of prisoners, due to privacy concerns.

The idea of notorious killers sharing space together inspired a riveting and eventually much publicized exchange between investigators and Rafferty during a police interrogation after his arrest in May 2009.

“The nice thing about the place you’re going to be spending a good chunk of your life is they actually have glass cells so you and Bernardo can make googly eyes at each other all day, whatever you guys do in there,” an angry Det. Sgt. Jim Smyth told Rafferty in a videotaped session played during Rafferty’s trial.

In Kingston, Williams and Bernardo complained about a third cellblock mate, former Toronto cop Richard Wills, who murdered his mistress.

Wills sang all night and regularly defecated on himself, forcing guards to spray him down, sources told QMI Agency. Wills was transferred to B.C. and Rafferty ended up in his cell.

It’s not known if the three killers are sharing cells in the same area of Port-Cartier.

Several of English Canada’s most notorious killers have been housed in Quebec prisons, where they’re less known among the French-speaking population. Bernardo’s ex-wife and accomplice, Karla Homolka, served the last nine years of her sentence in Quebec prisons.

Now-deceased child murderer Clifford Olson spent his final years at Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines prison north of Montreal.

randy.richmond@sunmedia.ca

The three killers

--Michael Rafferty was convicted in 2012 of the April 2009 murder of Tori Stafford, who was snatched off the street while walking home from school in Woodstock, Ont.

--Paul Bernardo was convicted in 1995 of the kidnapping and sex slayings of teenagers Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy.

--Russell Williams, a former air force colonel, was sentenced in October 2010 to two life sentences for first-degree murder, two 10-year sentences for other sexual assaults, two 10-year sentences for forcible confinement and 82 one-year sentences for burglary.

Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: RubyRose on October 17, 2014, 04:20:02 PM
Thank you, as well, jellybean. 

May they all enjoy each other's company!
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on October 18, 2014, 05:16:10 PM
Where is Michael Rafferty's counterpart being held?  In similar circumstances? That very sad crime took two people to pull off and both of those individuals had the opportunity to make other choices, not to mention had opportunities to protect and save the child.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on June 13, 2015, 02:19:19 PM
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russell-williams-clings-to-his-pension-214911797.html

This is a long article;

Here is the main meat of the matter.

Russell Williams’s military pension is believed to be worth roughly $60,000 a year, which means the killer ex-colonel has received nearly a quarter-million dollars worth of retirement benefits since his career in uniform came to a shocking end in 2010. At the penitentiary canteen, there is nothing he can’t afford.

But, four years after Williams was sentenced to life behind bars—and four years after the Canadian Forces confirmed that his pension is irrevocable, regardless of his sadistic crimes—Ontario’s highest court is about to weigh in on the former commander’s controversial retirement plan. And Williams, now locked in a solitary cell in rural Quebec, is fighting back against the one victim seeking a piece of his generous pension.

Laurie Massicotte, a neighbour who was ambushed in her living room and sexually assaulted less than two months before Williams committed his first murder, wants to amend a lawsuit she originally launched in 2011 to include a new allegation: that the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, which shields military pensions from court actions, violates her Charter rights because it deprives her of potential compensation. Simply put, Massicotte says a woman who endured what she did on Sept. 30, 2009, should have every legal right to pursue her attacker’s pension. The serial predator who climbed through her window doesn’t think so.

Legalities:

Like most Canadian pension laws, the military’s legislation clearly states that benefits are “exempt from attachment, seizure and execution,” meaning they can’t be cancelled by government or targeted by court claims. As outrageous as that may seem when the plan member is a depraved killer, the law is rooted in reasonable public policy: that pensions are designed to protect the basic financial security of retirees, and should therefore be off-limits to creditors.

As ?rst reported by Maclean’s in August, Williams reached an out-of-court settlement with the plaintiffs in two other civil lawsuits: “Jane Doe,” the victim of his first home-invasion sexual assault; and the family of Jessica Lloyd, whose abduction and horrific murder left behind the clues that ultimately led to Williams’s arrest. Whether he offered to settle with Massicotte is not clear. (Santini, his lawyer, declined an interview request.)

What is certain is that Williams wants Massicotte to pay his legal bill for next month’s hearing. As his factum concludes, he wants her appeal dismissed “with costs.”


Her appeal was dismissed.
I believe this is not over yet, the lawsuit has made some legal changes, and as far as I can tell, it will hit the system again/jb

see: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/woman-suing-russell-williams-can-t-target-his-military-pension-yet-1.2084840
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on June 13, 2015, 02:33:11 PM
And -

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/05/16/dna-tests-on-russell-williams-murder-victim-took-10-weeks.html

DNA tests on Russell Williams murder victim took 10 weeks

Were results in the Williams case that would have linked crime scenes filed in a timely manner? And could they have saved Jessica Lloyd’s life?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jobo on June 14, 2015, 05:25:33 AM
To know that this serial killer is getting a hefty pension while sitting in jail irks me to no end.  At the very least, he should be paying room and board in the big house.
In my opinion, anyone in jail, that collects an income, should be paying their way, not saving their money. 
Decent law abiding citizens have to pay for everything.

We need to start a petition.
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on June 14, 2015, 12:16:28 PM
Government Pensions of any kind

Government Retirement pensions, including your cpp, and if you are on old age and/or supplement, cannot be touched by any lawsuit.  There is one exception - Child Support.

If, because of Williams,  this woman is successful, it will set a precedence and it will be changed for everyone. 

That is the dilemma.

Is Williams worth it?

Out of court settlement would be best for everyone, but for some reason, she has not been successful with that either.
 Modified:

This is what he supposedly did to her.  Was he ever charged for this - does anyone know?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/08/20/victim_of_russell_williams_says_she_was_left_tied_up_for_hours_as_police_investigated.html


JB




Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on April 27, 2018, 12:10:25 PM
The story behind the movie of Russell Williams' interrogation
http://variety.com/2017/film/reviews/fatum-room-216-review-1202622584/

Fatum: Room 216, a movie about interrogation of Russell Williams.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7617944/
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: Concerned on April 27, 2018, 12:27:38 PM
Vice story claims that forensic psychologists contacted by VICE say Williams wasn't a psychopath. Instead they say he was a man with powerful sexual deviances coupled with a lack of empathy for his victims, who was able to control his urges in order to avoid detection when necessary. A good-working frontal lobe and a simmering cauldron of sexual deviance. Paraphilia. Is this consistent with what the authorities found?

Source: https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/wj5ekm/he-was-a-top-officer-in-the-military-and-also-a-serial-killer
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: jellybean on April 27, 2018, 02:13:18 PM
Quote
coupled with a lack of empathy for his victims, who was able to control his urges in order to avoid detection when necessary.

Lack of empathy - and cunning
and
Quote
What is certain is that Williams wants Massicotte to pay his legal bill for next month’s hearing. As his factum concludes, he wants her appeal dismissed “with costs.”
- cruelty and blame to others.

He found the perfect mate. There was a bit of larceny in her. She looked out for number one, and blocked his pension from being sued by victims by having him sign it over to her.

Both he and his wife were skin flints when it came to others.
Both he and his wife thought the world of their possessions.
She sued the cops for scratching her floors and breaking a lamp when they searched her home.
They made a great pair.
He loved Rosy the cat more than humans.
He was a convincing actor.

He was also a cross dresser, that is seldom mentioned.
He reminds me of the movie Bates Motel.

I would say he is a highly intelligent well organized psycho, the most dangerous kind, and if he isn't than who is?
Title: Re: Russel Williams: crimes and victims
Post by: RubyRose on April 28, 2018, 09:10:28 AM
I agree with everything you say, jellybean.

Neither is it mentioned very often that he was into child pornography (images,etc documented on his computer) although that is one thing with which he refused to co-operate with police. 

I've never quite known what to make of Mary Elizabeth.  When it was revealed that Williams had kept some of the stolen women's underwear in cabinets in the laundry room, I could only ask "What is with this woman?".  While I could perhaps understand (to some extent, not fully) how she might not be aware of the underwear hidden in their garage, he certainly made no special effort to keep her from finding it.

I'm not suggesting she necessarily had any knowledge of his crimes but I do wonder, would she even care as long as the truth was not revealed.  Definitely two cold customers!